o I can say to that sounds good I love reading stuff I've actually I've actually like my best friend since I was five years old as a socialist yeah I actually think he likes your channel non-compete so if he's jealous as fuck of me but uh um you know I actually read like a ton of fucking Karl Marx and Engels just so I could talk about it with him for a while so I'm always down to like read that shit it's interesting so yeah yeah that's funny you should read the conquest of bread because I think the only people on bread tube who've actually read it are like me and EJ is that where the name bread tube comes that is where most most people don't know that even the origin story that's incredible straight facts today Peter Capraken Conquest of Bread next one is from again from Conestoner they say New Harmony Indiana is your example you're welcome okay is that the is that the capitalist is that where a bunch of libertarians like try to start a city and it may have been I get all this stuff cross up people should also look into by the way or is that a utopian is the co-op wars there's a great episode of politics of a program is called the dollop yeah yeah sorry I think this was a utopian one of the American utopian communities yeah the American and by the way Marx destroyed American utopianism so if anybody's really interested in that Marx talked about American utopianism a lot and explained exactly why and Kropakken as well actually Kropakken also destroyed American utopianism it wasn't it was like a proto form of socialism but it was really not socialism at all but I guess that would be rabbit hole we don't want to go down to down right now don't yeah it's so weird next one is from spart 344 the kibbutz system failed miserably once they became capitalistic the lives of those people living on the kibbutz improved oh boy ej you want to take that with the I'm not sure I fault can can we get that read one more time yeah the kibbutz system failed miserably once they became capitalistic the lives of those people living on the kibbutz improved okay I mean it is real that's the is our I mean so so there that's not really like I could go and cherry pick any kind of I don't that's cherry picking I could go and find all kinds of situations where capitals industry like look at the way that Pinochet and the Chicago boys completely ruined and rolled back all of the progress that I and they made in Chile so I guess that's my response if you're going to show Pinochet constitution democratically they threw that off hard and it took a long time but I'm so happy about it I mean I could go on in Argentina is another example there's lots of examples where I mean you could say that the French Institute Capitalism under their colonial rule in Vietnam and certainly the lives of Vietnamese people have improved since that French capitalist colonialist rule ended there I mean I could cherry pick countless countless examples so I don't really feel that's a point to be made this was something I don't know anything about the kibbutz system but just even if that's true it's it's like maybe the kibbutz system sucked that's probably what happened I don't know I think they could yeah I mean the kibbutz system is not something that I've looked deeply into what I will say is there's plenty of of counter examples so if it is indeed as crappy as you said it was there's a number of reasons why it wouldn't necessarily be socialism what I'd also like to point out is like okay so oftentimes when we talk about like people doing better or people doing worse the we measure them by the values that are generated by capitalist society and this is one of the reasons why I inherently rejected what splinter had said about like things getting better for people around the world a good example might be Cambodia and this was before Pol Pot and before and it was actually worse like but Cambodia was a nation of peaceful Theravada Buddhists and Westerners came and they found that these Theravada Buddhists they worked six months out of the year and they rested six months out of the year and did whatever and they introduced new Western methods of to increase and double their crop yields and the people just went and worked three months out of the year because there are things that doubled and the Westerners got mad and were like no no you're supposed to go and earn this money and put this stuff out so they began to institute like systems of currency that weren't really used and put in impose this Western capitalistic model and this led to before Pol Pot huge like freaking riots where babies were torn in half like but with people's bare hands like it destabilized the country and destroyed their traditional way of life and yeah they were a little bit richer but you know torn up babies so you can always say that like oh people are doing better because they're making more money but money isn't real it's it is an intelligent system it's a measure of wealth what is actually real are resources plus labor plus intelligence that's what what what is actually going to measure like how a person is doing better or worse I think Trent wants to respond to that go for it buddy yeah no let's just let the questions go it's fine all right yeah I've wanted some other time all right all right next we match is actually for Brenton yes it's from Raisin Zero they say Brenton how is your socialist economy hold on how would your socialist economy help the common folk especially um the people that or example is the people I'm sorry it's it's worded very strangely I'm trying to figure out what they're trying to say example the people that work on Walmart and the people work as heart surgeon sure um well I can actually answer that because my father is a doctor and my uncle is a surgeon and uh I also you know know plenty of people that work hourly jobs the fact is is that socialism my socialism would free these people up to do the actual work that they want to do you know one of the worst things for doctors when they get involved with medicine is the business of medicine rather than actually serving the people because most doctors get into the field not to become ridiculously wealthy because trust me you if you want to be ridiculously wealthy don't be a doctor you'll get good money but like if you don't draw satisfaction from actually helping people you'll probably kill yourself because the doctors actually have very high suicide rates as well now as far as somebody working at Walmart hourly what will happen under my system of socialism is workers will control their workplace and how they do it so the heart surgeons will be the ones making the important decisions about surgery not hospital administrators and similarly when you're at Walmart the people that actually work at Walmart will have a stake and will have control over their workplace and how they do things when they stock the shelves how much everybody gets paid you know and the fact of the matter is is that when you actually have real tangible control over what you're doing when you you are one because you're the worker you're the one actually doing the work you know it better than anyone else could possibly know it and two you actually develop a lot more satisfaction from what you're doing because you're taking your unique skills and you're putting them to work in a way that makes the world tangibly better for everyone whether that means stocking the shelves at Walmart or doing heart surgery and saving somebody's life gotcha all right we actually only have one more question it's from daniexx he says the soviet government expropriated capital from the people no i would say at which point are you talking about because the soviet union is very very complicated and changed many many times into many different sorts of entities i mean you could say like are you talking about like the 70s and 80s when they started to open up and have all those market reforms was ultimately led to the downfall of the soviet union then i would say that's definitely true i mean it depends on where you're talking about are you talking about one of the satellite nations or are you talking about like the core of the ussr itself i mean that's a that's an oversimplification but i think there's truth to it so i would i would recognize the point but with nuance you know with the added point that you have to have nuance when talking about the ussr it's very complicated yeah i i said no because the ussr i mean prior to the ussr the like the the romanovs it was a was i feudal country and it took property from the nobility not from the people yeah i think like 1917 that was definitely not true yeah i also think that if you're a socialist it's probably within your best interest to not defend a totalitarian society just in general not speaking to you guys but just in just in general perhaps bring up the ussr is probably not a good idea as a dialectical materialist i don't essentialize things like that there are things that the ussr did that were horrific and there are things that they did that where they had success like going from an agrarian culture to a space fairing society and faster than capitalism and with when capitalism had a better starting point i'm not defending i'm not a statist i'm not marxist-leninist but i'm just saying like you could talk about the ussr i'm not i don't believe that the ussr is a taboo i think we can look at it we can talk about it we can examine it and we can find uh truth in in what works and what doesn't work yeah any in my only recommendation would be convert as many people as possible to that dialectical materialism before you bring up the ussr it's exactly what i try to do that's exactly what i try to do that's exactly what i try to do yeah but you we're talking about how more people need to learn to think critically and absolutely key like i mean you that's why i said do this critically thinking think i think that the working class is capable of learning how to analyze situations i'm not a totally agree talk about these like yeah i i would say i'm not you know i'm not a tank you're not a tank commander the what i what i would say is is that like you could just as easily make the argument that like oh how can you defend the imperialist fascist united states i don't defend that yeah but but it's the same thing we can talk sometimes some aspects of american democracy are really awesome and or sweden be how can you defend the imperialist sweden which has like left its workers in russia who are migrant workers from the middle east to doom under coveted like how can you defend those imperialist well sweden is still well sweden is still well sweden is still thriving right and we can disavow that there's room for nuance for sweden my point in saying that was my point in saying that though was that the ussr failed it collapsed there was because of market and i would say a lot of people tell you i mean and i was i just wanted to say i think a lot of the a lot of positive things with the ussr because from what i understand like lennon you know managed to like increase like wages and like universal healthcare and all that stuff something i hear a lot from tankies typically who defend these societies like in their totality and stuff is that like oh well there was universal healthcare there there was like wages there it's like it seems like there's other societies that we can do this with benefits from yeah so i find i when people start bringing up like the ussr and like these like one party like authoritarian places i just i'm just it just raises a ton of red flags ton of hairs on the back of my neck you know i mean i don't yeah but i mean like you just you're again i think that i don't want to get into this is probably a whole other debate and i don't want to get into the position where i'm seen as defending the ussr because i'm not but even the fact the idea that it's like totalitarian and one party rule and everything like that there are definitely accounts where an American went to the Soviet Union in the 30s and talked about how he as a worker in this little village was able to actually go and vote and go to these council meetings that are very democratic so and that was at one point in the history of the ussr and then later it became much more totalitarian and then later the khrushchev had reforms that made it more democratic i mean this was a long and and very kind of hegemonic i'm sorry heterogenous history where the ussr was constantly undergoing changes so he got back to just don't think that the ussr debate is on the horizon let's maybe oh Jesus no i'd rather argue against the ussr but i just don't want to essentialize her character mischaracterize a very complicated subject so sounds good there's a lot of propaganda out there like on both sides of the thing like the black book of communism is complete bull crap there's a lot of stuff when like you'll you'll hear and caps talk about like the various famines for instance in the soviet union and in china and then if you look into the history of that it goes down to like one jackass scientist named like senko who did not believe in he didn't believe an evolution he thought he didn't believe in the theory of evolution because he said the theory of evolution was like the bourgeois it's like it's like a bourgeois controlling no no he said it was fascist but like but but beyond that like here's the thing less senko was saying things that were convenient to people in power in much the same way Steven Pinker says things that are convenient to people in power and people in power like oh let's boost this guy up and they put him in charge of their agriculture program his his theories didn't work they lied about it then freaking china heard about it believed the propaganda and you have the the famines that happened during the great leap forward like it it came down to that one jackass being raised so i i think like a lot of the time is one of the things that we need to be careful about is we don't want to essentialize an entire country and and two we want to see exactly what these problems are and where they come from and maybe it's not a good idea to centralize power and a couple of hands because those spymanias all right just speaking from a last really quick point i live in vietnam and i've seen so much misinformation about vietnam that i just i my interest is always just to find the truth okay and like there are things that vietnam does really really well there's some things i have criticism of i just don't like to like pretend that it's all an all or nothing kind of game so that's why bristle and push back and i and i'm totally fine with acknowledging nuance you know i don't think that if somebody says like oh well there's one thing the ussr did that was like kind of good you know i don't think someone's like inherently like some crazy fucking like fucking like far left motherfucker who's just like totally off the deep end whatever i'm fine with doing that it's just the problem is i would prefer to look at societies that are continuing to thrive where they do but they're very violent societies those societies that you're say are thriving every society every society that has ever existed has been violent this is a great human nature great discussion but i think russus got something she wants to say i do i think that we should definitely have you all on again you guys are all thank you i'm down if anybody will tolerate me me thank you so much i'm not a like debater and i don't do a lot of these so i really am sorry i know i was like emotional and that's like if you're if you have feels then you lose the debate so i'm sorry and i'm sorry if i stepped on people i'm not really so used to this format so i'm sorry sjw cuck over here non-compete well we'll definitely can't compete with the facts have to have you all on again and thank you for taking the time out of all of your busy schedules i know it was kind of hard to to plan and coordinate so thank you thank you for that and to the audience thank you so much for watching don't forget that there is actually a debate tomorrow on theism so be sure to tune in to that and keep on sorting the reasonable from the unreasonable and have a wonderful night