Folks are starting to come in. This is Leilani speaking. This is pretty much all you're going to hear from me. I'm going to immediately turn it over to Kita and our wonderful panelists for this conversation, a reminder that there are captions provided for this and all of our panels. And if you need assistance with anything else, you can DM me right here in the chat or shoot me an email, which I will again place in the chat. All right, thanks all. Kita, going away and being quiet. Okay. I'm going to start with Kita Nadasuiz, Nelson Sullivan, Ntcha Shaewank, Montekat, Tashinakak, Ta Muli, Black, Ntcha Paewank, Shamat, Asa Mashawalmik, Ntach. Welcome all. My name is Kita Sullivan. I am the Senior Program Director for Theater at New England Foundation for the Arts, which means that I work with these lovely people to bring you the National Theater Program or National Theater Project. So our conversation today is really that it is a conversation between other folks. And so to enable that conversation, I am a light-skinned native woman with what I used to say with salt and pepper hair, but you know, I think it's now just right. I have large blue-framed glasses, a cow-neck blue sweater with beadwork that I made a starflower based on a piece of my grandmother's jewelry. Behind me is a picture of my homelands, Montauk Point, New York, and it has sky, ocean, and land, which is how I hope to walk through the world. I am going to ask each of the folk here to introduce themselves in their own traditional ways, as well as however they choose to. And I'm going to go first on my screen is Tara. Mado, Histe Estongo, Tera Chochefkados. Hello, everyone. My name is Tara Moses. My pronouns are she, her, hers. I'm a citizen of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, as well as Muscogee Creek, and I'm also Cherokee and Muscular Apache descent. A visual description is that I have light brown skin, very long, very dark. Sometimes it's blue-black, sometimes it's kind of brownish. I don't know, colored hair. I think it's more on the blue-blacky brown side today. I have red lipstick on. I have very large, very sparkly beaded earrings that have a Michael Romance pick in the middle of it and spikes. We're feeling very metal today. And I have on a black mesh button up and behind me is an office. You can see a bookshelf, a very light pink wall, lots of books, some art. You can see my hallway, my lovely red rug in the background. And yeah, I'm calling in from the land of the Narragansett or what's colonally known as Johnston Rhode Island. And I think that's all the introduction for now. Thank you. Happy to meet you. Jasmine. I'm here to introduce you to our guest. It's a pleasure to be with you all here today. My name is Jasmine. I am a light-skinned native person, a Nipmuc descent. And I am wearing bone earrings with abalone at the bottom. They're very long. And my hair is parted on the side and very long and dark. And I am wearing a black chemise. My background is blue with lights going. I'm calling in from my homelands in Massachusetts. Katapatenay, Jasmine. Bonnie. Katapatenamu wanikisakwaminitompaaknatasariiskisakiriam. Nutomas masivyakachnatay masivyadatachirikontam apadmiatiyukisakap. Hello, everyone. My name is Siobhan, growing Elm. I also go by Vani. My pronouns are Nakum, she, her, hers. And I am Mashby Wampanoag. I'm a black Wampanoag woman living here in Mashby, which is on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. I today am wearing a orange sweater, turtleneck sweater. My hair is salt and pepper, a little bit of gray streaks. Today it's pulled back in a braid. I have gold metal-framed glasses. And behind me, I'm here in my office in my home. You can see a closet door, television screen, and curtains in front of the window. I think that's my degree in the back there on the wall. And I'm very happy to be here grateful for this intentional space and look forward to our discussion. Stop, dash. I'm going to ask us all to speak loudly, clearly, and slowly. There are folks who are having difficulty hearing us. And I realize that all, I think all four of us tend to speak in our lower registers, which is really interesting. We're all, yeah. And I recognize also that some of us are not well. And so this is also an issue. So I wanted to start this conversation by acknowledging the point of time that we're in and how amazing it sometimes feels. And I say sometimes intentionally.  Jasmine, you've been doing all of this writing and this amazing work. Vani, you are working, I see you almost every year with the Commonwealth Shakespeare, which it's Shakespeare. But we also have things like Maddie's Science, where we belong down at the public. Delana Studi's and So We Walk is also Tori.  I am the parent of a native actor who gets to do work. These are things that I could not have imagined when I was their age. And so I just want to, you know, we have res dogs. I mean, there's just so much going on right now. And I just want to stop and acknowledge that this moment is something that hasn't happened before and how grateful I am, one, to be able to talk to all of you about this moment, but also that it actually exists. It is Native American Heritage Month for everyone else but us, because it's our heritage every single day of the year. And so I love that it actually, we actually can celebrate it that way, but I think we celebrate ourselves in different ways every, all day, every year. And so I wanted to acknowledge that. It's also Ninoa, which is our actual feast time that now has been usurped by Thanksgiving. And so starting with that spirit of gratitude is important to me. So there, I think the first thing I want to throw out to all of you is this contradiction, this moment in time. How do you see it and how do you see it lasting? Because, you know, there's also the fad thing, the exoticism of the moment. And so I'm going to throw it out there. Whoever wants to take it on first, go for it. This is Tara. I'll jump in. I know it's always a game of chicken. Who's going to go? Yeah. So I feel, I feel similarly in that I'm holding like a lot of confliction about the time that we're in right now, because while it is so thrilling to see for the first time ever native stories on like prime TV, you know, as well as like prey being dubbed in Comanche and available on Hulu and like I'm breaking all these records. It's amazing. I'm still holding that there is still such a lack of representation in these positions of power, you know, still holding that we are still dealing with folks who are not Indigenous portraying Indigenous roles. So red faces alive and well, you know, we're still dealing with, yes, we have these wonderful commercial native theater projects happening, but we don't have native directors at the helm of them. We don't have native producers at the helm of them. And then as well as holding with as we increase in popularity because we're cool now all of a sudden also holding the vulnerability in that and that it becomes even easier to appropriate and to take our stories, cultures and traditions and bastardize them into whatever the mainstream media wants to make, you know, and I say that and res dogs and said on my reservation, those are my people. It's my language. And while I'm so excited to see it, at the same time, I'm just like terrified for the day that someone's like, oh, yes, I saw this and I wrote it into this other thing that I was inspired by and they're not Muskogee or they're not native whatsoever. Yeah, so for me, for me, it's hard. It's a lot of it's a lot of conflict is currently how I'm feeling and thinking about it and just wondering like where are levels of protection? Where are access to power? Because I think the end of the day, what I'm looking for is native folks in all levels of leadership, you know, not just the wonderful talent on screen, not just the writers, you know, not just the directors, if we get that far, but also the executives, the producers, those folks who can really like hold and protect and gain access through this industry where we can do all kinds of things, you know, not just things squarely rooted within our identities, unless it's what we want to do. So that's for me. That's what I'm thinking. What about y'all? I'll jump off of that. Thank you, Sarah. I am Jasmine speaking and I completely agree. I think that this is a really wonderful moment, but there is a bit of wariness in it where, yeah, I think we're a little bit of a fad and I definitely feel that, I feel that in the place where I live, where there's a lot of social justice people who are very determined to do things the right way, but I was at an event the other night and they did not even speak the name of my tribe correctly when they did their land acknowledgement. And so that made me think, well, how much do you actually care? Why are you even saying this? If you can't say the name of the tribe that you're speaking, how much research did you actually do?  And I think that it's really important that beyond just doing it because everyone else is doing it, you have to do that work. You have to be committed to engaging with the people around you, especially if you are not familiar with Native people. If you're a white person in the land of theater or film, TV, you have to be willing to do that work to engage with how Native people are going to come into the space and you have to be willing to hold that and not just have things go your way all the time. Okay, Tapatosh, this is Siobhan. Yes, to everything that was just said, I think that it's important when we're speaking about what has been put forward already. I totally agree with Tara that we can look at it and examine it and, yes, embrace the joy of it because we're beautiful. So, like, it's about time. Like, our story should be on prime time written and produced and directed by us and embraced by everyone because what we're seeing is that just the very act, the sacred nature of storytelling has, like, this beautiful flow and ripple effect into the community that it's important to uphold. At the same time, it's super important to protect it and to protect the origins because what's being put forward is going to differ greatly from what is passed down from generation to generation within the veil of the culture. There are some things that are just not for public consumption. And so, understanding as maybe coming from a non-indigenous perspective as to what is going on, understanding that this is just a glimpse and that there is this beautiful diversity across Turtle Island. It's not just, you know, this sort of pan-Indian, if you will, way of being that we all each have distinct languages. We all each have distinction in our cultural practice and tradition and how we're teaching our children. We all have a distinct relationship to understanding the origins of our being. And those aspects of, like, a television show is not going to capture that, right? Play is not going to capture that. That there are things that are for public consumption and understand that by watching these things or experiencing these things or being in relationship that if one is non-Indigenous, you're just getting a glimpse. And that glimpse itself is an honor and a privilege, mostly because of the history and the attempts at erasure of a culture. We are existing even beyond these attempts at erasure. And so making it sort of making sure that the perception of what is being viewed is not ticking off a box. It's not, you know, embracing the entire culture that there are still very distinct, unique forms of expression from within this beautiful, beautiful culture of ours. So this is, I feel like, is just the beginning and that there is, of course, capacity and that we are capable of much, much more. Yeah, we're not giving away all of our culture. It's been taken so many times. People have taken it. We're not giving it away. And I think that's one of the things that maybe this is leading into a different question, but the idea of reciprocity. And I think I have run into this personally, which is, oh, I want to learn about your culture. I really want to do this native play in November. Can you teach me, right? And I'm like, I'm 61 years old. I don't think I can teach you everything in an hour, right? And so I'm wondering as you are navigating in this Western European tradition of theater, which is not necessarily our tradition of theater in storytelling, how you are handling that sort of, oh, teach me a moment. Go, Havon. This is Havon. Great, great question. I think while reciprocity is important, right? You know, we're talking that was mentioned earlier. Jasmine, thank you for the offering about land acknowledgement and how important it is to have correct pronunciation and education. To be in right relationship with the original stewards of the land that, you know, is under your feet to the land that was stolen, the land that was used as such a tool for colonization, right? This request from, you know, a non-Indigenous person to teach or to receive even more after all that has been received, understand, you know, the, I would just invite understanding the weight of that question and that if one is seeking to be in right relationship to remember that there's traditional practice of offering, you know, making an offering before asking to receive something, right? So that could be, you know, a small gift or, you know, in some communities it is tobacco or receiving something, educating oneself about what is a proper gift or offering before receiving anything, whether that is intellectual property, whether that's knowledge, understand that language. While language is everywhere, it's in our, you know, it's in our state name, it's in town names. Wampanoag language is throughout the eastern coast here and other languages, other dialects here. Understand that if asking to know how to say something or asking for a translation that, you know, that comes language was such a tool, you know, that was the first thing that indigenous people were cut off from to, in order to feel connected. It's how we connect to the land, it's how we connect to each other, the seen and the unseen world. And so when seeking to get that information that understand what the protocol of giving and receiving is on the land that you're on. And at the same time, understand what weight, historical weight that carries, particularly if one is a white embodied individual, what that language and what that request carries with it because there just seems to be the sort of culture of taking. And when we're engaged in that, what we are perpetuating is sort of this colonized view that we're just, you know, like it's a petting zoo of some kind that we're just here for the taking. And that is, you know, deeply not the case and that there are engagement practices and protocols that can be honored that are quite easy to honor and quite frankly, they enrich and move beyond the question that you're asking. You tend to, when you come with a good heart and a good mind and awareness of protocol, what one can find is that they receive beyond what their original question was. If you're seeking something, it's not because there's information that needs to be poured in.  That's true education. The root word of education, education is calling forward that which is within you. So you're calling forward something within yourself and being alert to overstepping or being disrespectful or perpetuating harm, right? If there's a request or a desire to learn more, there are many ways in which you can do that in a respectful way. I'm actually going to ask Tara to respond to that as someone who is like busy working right now all over the place. I'm still not sure how you are like everywhere all at once. I have many phones. Yeah, well, and still in school, shout out for, you know, actually changing the way the educational system works within higher education. So yeah, I'm going to ask you to respond about this because I know you run into it. Yes, thanks. I was playing chicken with Jasmine. I was like, who's going to go? But yeah, so this is Tara again.  I'm sitting over here stewing because I have a hot take, which is I'll be educating no more. I don't do it. I wrote those plays back in the day. I don't do it now. I do not care. But so my less hot take version of that, but still hot take is is that for me, what I found is as a playwright, especially in my early years, I wrote those plays educating around missing and murdered indigenous relatives, educating around Indian Child Welfare Act, which was anyway, you know, around tribal sovereignty, so on and so forth. And the intention was to educate non-natives and specifically white folk because that's who the audience was. That's who the producers were and continue to be in many places. And what I found during that is, is that my spirit was not doing hot. It was not doing great. Those were not the stories I wanted to tell. You know, I wanted to tell unapologetically native stories specifically around my peoples and cultures and communities that did not have the intention to educate and that also had fully native cast, which, you know, even now it's still an issue that I quote-unquote issue that I'm running into often from producers. This is that like, oh, they love my play Quantum because there's only two Indians in it, you know, right? Yeah. I was like, my other work, my leader work is far better written and far more interesting in my opinion. But okay, primary status off Broadway, whatever. And that is that me being able to write fully native cast that are just strictly unapologetic, that are just about us having a good time. My favorite play I've written is called Snag.  But people told me that they've learned so much through just the authenticity of what's on stage. And that's what I'm in pursuit of now is making audience, well, making audiences learn from unapologetic native stories without me having to spoon feed. Because, you know, I think about the very first time I ever saw another native on stage was at arena stage in 2017. And I've been doing theater since I was eight years old. So that's a long time not seeing another Indian on the stage. And I think up to that point and even now how much I've been able to learn from other playwrights from other stories that are not my lived experience. And they were not, those plays were not written with me in mind. Those plays don't care about me. You know, I was just fortunate enough to be invited to participate in watching them anyway. And if I can do that as young as an eight-year-old child in Oklahoma of all places, that's not the place you won't be for the theater. But if I'm able to do that, then I think that the educated audiences that exist today are able to learn through just witnessing and not understanding everything. Just like I write in my language, I don't translate it.  You don't need to know. I promise you're going to put it together. And yeah, and this really hot take of mine, you know, has resulted in like lost production opportunities.  I was like, I don't want to be there anyway. If they don't want like my authentic unapologetic Indigenous self, I don't want to be there. So I went at the end of the day. Anyway, but for those who really, those allies who really have walked the walk and have really wanted to be in good relationship have only just told me every single time after every single show has always been like, you know what, you are right. We were worried and you told us to stop being worried about it and just let you do what you wanted to do and let the room do what they wanted to do. Let the other artists do what they wanted to do and truly the impact is just that much greater. And so that's the position that I'm in now where I don't educate. I was like, you can learn, you can learn just through witnessing and if you act up, you know, we'll kick you out, but other than that, that's how I've been operating and my spirit has been so much stronger and so much better for it. And I ain't going back. So none of y'all commissioned me to write your educational plays. I don't do that anymore. Um, anyway, um, yeah, that's where I sort of sit here. So you just reminded me, Tara, you know, it's funny because all of these things are experiences we've all had, right? Um, and I just was remembering, um, the whole I back when Ching Wei, for those of you don't know, Ching Wei is my child, um, who is learning, learning his craft and doing well at it. Um, first audition for a show in Boston and it was a show about our people. Actually, it was about Long Island in the winter and they didn't cast Ching Wei. Um, and one of the reasons I think, um, is that, you know, I'm looking at, I'm looking at us and, um, is that they didn't see him as native, right? Which is the question that I have in an earlier panel, um, where they were talking about, um, you know, when you're casting a role and you don't have that identity within your, your immediate purview. How do you go about, you know, you know, the idea of, oh, there aren't any or there aren't any here anyway, um, and, um, trying to figure out how to get people to see us in all of our beautifulness. Not a single one of us looks the same, right?  And so I'm badly formulating this question, right? Um, thankfully I know y'all can follow me. Um, how are you dealing with that as a nitmuck performer, actress, playwright in your own land? Ooh, okay. So thank you, um, for that question. Kudobotomish. Um, so that is a very near and dear, um, subject to my heart. Um, I have dealt with being told that I am not a native person since I was a child. Um, I remember being in school, um, in kindergarten, in fact, um, I think like I was home from like a social and I was really excited and we were talking and it was like around this time we were talking about things and, you know, five year old Jasmine is even more bubbly than 28 year old Jasmine and just is like, I'm native and I start chatting about things and the kids look at me and they go, no, you're not. Savages don't exist. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I had no idea how to respond to that as a kid and then fast forward to being in college. And, um, I went to a college in New York, a conservatory and they were going around, uh, asking us what our ethnicities were for parts that we could play. Look, it was Amda. Um, and so they, they say, um, they get to me and they say, what are you and I say, I'm native and some girl behind me goes, yeah, you and every other white chick and I snapped on her. Um, and that has just been a continuous occurrence throughout my life and back then, you know, I, uh, when I was at Amda, I had short red hair because I had a phase where I wanted red hair and, um, so did not help my case. Now I've got very, very, very, very long, um, brown hair and, um, so that gives me a little bit more, uh, visibility, which is fun. I'm growing it because I'm seeing how long it'll get and, um, also for, um, in honor of my ancestors and I, um, so it's amazing. It's amazing how much, um, you can just be told, oh no, you don't exist.  Um, I went and I fought against the Turner's Falls mascot and a whole article came out against me saying like this non-native person fought against the mascots and, um, used a picture of me as Princess Anna because I'm a cosplayer and, um, it's people will see whatever they want to see and whatever serves their purpose.  And I think that's an interesting thing. Um, and that's a roundabout way to get to, uh, your question, which is, um, out here, there is visibility because, um, and there's not visibility. There's visibility for me because people know who I am, um, in a way, like my name gets passed around and I feel like that's a very common thing where like people like, oh, we know a native, this one, bring it in.  Um, and, um, then there's also in terms of theater, um, nothing. There's, there's no roles, um, really ever, uh, for native people. Um, I'm, I'm super excited to see that, um, more and more roles are getting written. Um, but if you want to be cast in something, you have to audition for, um, uh, white parts. And that's how it is out, out this way. Um, one of the tragedies of, uh, not living in the city is not having as much access to, um, the native theater community. I don't know if I answered that question all the way, but it's around it. No, I, I, I appreciate the answer top of me. Um, Vani, I'm going to ask you also to talk on this, because I, I see you in Shakespeare mostly and I know that's not all that you've done. Um, and, um, and I know that you've also done a fair amount of work with the theater companies that you're in to get them to see you, um, in your fullness. Yes. Um, this is Siobhan. Um, yeah, the majority of my training was, um, you know, definitely rooted in Shakespeare in, in European writers, basically, and, um, and educators, you know, um, when I came, when I stepped into, um, you know, being a theater person, being a, just wanting to tell stories, wanting to be involved in theater and sought training, um, you know, development of my voice and movements and, um, you know, while there was, um, some diversity in term, from a global sense, there was active and just overt erasure of indigenous playwrights and, um, and stories, um, of this land that we were on, you know, I think, and I think that all of that, I think my education was really intentional. Um, and that, you know, I learned about, you know, a certain set of playwrights and, um, sort of was, was exposed to the, quote, unquote, origins of storytelling being, being Greek.  And so going through these, these training programs, relationships are built and, and, um, you know, I did a, I did a lot of work here in the city with, with various companies, um, and also worked with a lot of black drama, um, but, you know, have done several seasons with Commonwealth Shakespeare company, having been at, you know, the ART at the same time, Steve Mailer was, who's the founder and have this relationship, friendship, um, and moving into, I would say my, my career sort of moved into more, um, connecting with language, being able to have access to language and, um, studying language in 2005. And at that time, that connection, um, just sort of opened up a lot within me, um, became a part of the, um, teaching team that founded, um, Makaya Sakwiku here in Mashby. It's a language and culture immersion school for children, um, here on our, our reservation and we have been able to, um, you know, build something that we hope will, um, continue language and carry language forward. And of course when teaching with, with young children, it's, it's lights, camera action. So a lot of my theater background has been put into use. And so they, they kind of mirror each other a lot, stepping, um, back onto stage the last couple of years, um, everything is informed by that, right? So I think it's important to recognize that when we might see an actor of color in these, these plays or, you know, um, in, in these stories written by white writers, they're understanding that there is work being done to bring their whole selves to the work, right? That there, that there is, um, this, um, openness within that happens when, when coming to different stories, different playwrights. Um, and for me in the last couple of years, it has been this unapologetic presence. You know, if you're going to hire me, you're going to hear my perspective. It's not anything that's going to be, um, marginalized in any way. Um, the, the quality, it's not just what gets produced. It's the process as well. Um, what the process is not only for myself as a woman of color in the space, but particularly for the younger BIPOC, um, actors or designers or producers who are involved. Um, and that we are not here to be in service to Shakespeare. Shakespeare is here in service to us, right? It is not that we, um, drop and, and shed and remove who we are and as actors in order to do these roles, we bring who we are and, and, and, and then some in order to fulfill this voice and to carry this forward. Um, in this, in the past, just real quick in the past, um, production that I was in much to do about nothing. Um, one of the lead characters, Claudio, um, young, um, Puerto Rican actor, um, in a, in a particular moment, it was clear that a language other than English really was being called forward. And so me being the language keeper that I am, I'm like, why are we sticking with English? Whoa. He doesn't have to say these words. The playwright is dead. We can do what we, we can do what we want, right? And so, you know, the, the actor shows it was, you know, a moment of grief. If we know the play, it's this moment of grief. That's not really real, but, but it's real for this, this character. And they, and they, you know, went, went forward and spoke, um, spoke their language, spoke Spanish in that moment. And it was one that, you know, um, that lifted the experience of it, not just for the average onlooker, but for other Spanish speakers, other Puerto Rican young people and, um, and audience members really lean forward. And we're like, Oh my God, you know, we're hearing something else in an atmosphere where English, right? And the, and the, and the patriarchy is like really up here, right? And so the patriarchy like doesn't, you know, we don't have to bow down to that. You know, we've got, we've got a beautiful woman at the helm. We have, you know, if we're going to do all this hiring, we have to bring all aspects of that, of that individual into the room, right? And so that was just, you know, one example of being a voice in the space, not just in the rehearsal hall, but in, in, um, you know, in the office space, you know, behind the scenes. Um, and, and just saying, if you're going to do DEI, if you're going to be doing a bar work, this is what it means in practice. When you hire us, you cannot silence us. You cannot just expect us to fit in some little hole. I've, I can fit in that hole. I've got papers on my wall that say that I can. However, I choose not to. I'm going to bring my whole self to the work and, and these environments should be prepared for that. Not but me. I'm just, I've, I've gotten my, um, it's time to go to Q and A message. Um, but I just wanted to know, I just realized something when I, all three of you have dealt with Shakespeare and how, and, and bringing your full self into Shakespeare and changing it, right? Making changes so that it's a better reflection. I think, uh, of what it was originally intended to be, which is part for a humanity of that time and bringing it further into our time and our experiences. Um, and so I do want to open up to questions. Um, I will also say for the folks in the room, we could talk about this all day long and probably have talked about it all day long. Um, and so, um, I'm open. I'm looking for questions in the chat. If you want to raise your voice. Um, that's also appreciated. Um, I encourage you to get to know the work of all three of these amazing people. Um, they are, uh, they are what's making this work, this storytelling work, um, more valuable and more valued and, um, and more real for, for everybody. So I'm going to open it up to questions. Um, and hope that there's some in the, in the chat because we will keep talking otherwise.  So go ahead and lay Lonnie. Well, just, I'm just letting folks know, pop it in the chat or raise your hands because otherwise I am happy to go for it and want to name. I had the chance to see the production, uh, that Bonnie was referencing and I had the privilege of getting to see that with a collection of my former students, all of whom were BIPOC. Uh, and several of whom were, uh, Afro-Hispanic and spokespanist and, uh, not turning my camera on because for the third time today, I'm crying. And that's what I have to say about that. That wasn't a question. I, uh, that was my comment. It was, it was, uh, I've been involved with that company as well several times in several capacities over the years, uh, and I've been in the audience many times and that moment was the correct call. And so thanking you as an elder on your own land for the work that you did in upholding all of our fullness and all of our humanity for, um, my students in a moment that I didn't speak. I don't speak Spanish. That is not my language. That is not my heritage. That is not my moment. Uh, and it is a moment that I have deep gratitude for getting to have experience. Eric in the, uh, chat from Sam's last has, uh, asked about working at a community level. If any of you would like to share. And this is Siobhan. I just wanted to take the top touch for that. Um, and, and also just wanted to add, um, and then, and then certainly go on to Eric's question, um, that the preparation for that moment, this moment of another, a language other than English, um, in a Shakespeare play, right? Um, in the middle of Boston on land that, um, you know, systemically held, you know, where the Indian act was upheld, where, where two or more Wampanoag people, um, found walking were considered, you know, a mob and where speaking Wampanoag was, was, um, illegal where there were public hangings and, and, um, all sorts of violence perpetuated on, on black and brown bodies. This individual actor, um, went through the process to build this moment. So in the previews, when we did this moment, there were, there was, um, you know, speaking in, in Spanish and it was, um, because people were laughing actually and, and it was noted that there needed to be a bill. They needed to establish the Spanish and for some reason that like just brought, I had a visceral reaction to that because this young brown man's presence on stage for a Boston, majority Boston audience did not invite the possibility for another language, for a language other than English. And so that's the level of colonization. When we come into these spaces that, that we are, that we are dealing with, that we are breaking down, that we are dismantling, you know, that is the level of, of, um, expectation on our bodies and our voices to, to move in a certain way. Um, just moving over to this question, um, about working at the community level. Um, I think it's integral to any artist's life to work at the community level. Um, and that if you, if one does find themselves, you know, working in theater companies, make sure that they're doing it too. Um, I'll speak also on that. Um, this is Jasmine speaking, uh, as a, and thank you, Vani, um, on, on working on a community level, I think, um, something that I've really enjoyed seeing, that I've really enjoyed being a part of as well. Um, with native productions, we've been seeing a lot more of, um, accessible tickets, um, for our, our people, for our elders, um, accessibility in, in multiple different ways. Uh, that isn't just like traditional, um, theater like you've got to pay for it or you get your comps and that's it. It's like, nope, let's be patient. Let's get these people into this, the places. Let's sit, um, let's make sure that there's room for, um, our elders. Let's make sure that there's room for children. Let's make sure that there's, um, this space, uh, because these are native spaces and that's what you get if you're, if you're doing a native play, right? Um, and I've, I've really appreciated that and enjoyed that. And, um, I think it's just a lovely thing. Tara, I'm going to ask you to also follow up on the question and also noting that there are about two minutes left that I get to hold on. So, um, go for it. Yeah.  Um, I have so, I mean, I don't, I don't know. I don't think I know a single artist who did not get their start, did not have some connection in community theater. Um, I don't think I can name one. I mean, that's certainly also my experience too. Um, yeah. But I mean, it was also like tying it into like the, like the, where are they questions? So to say, um, is, you know, right now quantum again, that's the play everybody likes. But anyway, but, uh, quantum is currently running at a community theater in Sacramento right now. Um, it's a like, it's a full production. It's the, it's a workshop production because they were like, we don't want to do the world premiere because we're just community, community theater.  Anyway, um, but yes, that was really lovely on their end.  So I'm going to work at this very oppressive PWI Lord theater, so to say. Um, and my experience with, um, with them, it's matriarchy theaters. They're very first production. I'm very proud. Um, so if you're in the area, go, go see it. But anyway, um, they really beat the pavement to find two native people for those roles. Like they did so much community outreach, outreach outreach work. Um, then most professional theaters have ever done for any of my plays, uh, whether I've written them or directed them. It's always like falling onto me as an individual. And, you know, and that's just something that, um, I just find to be so interesting. It's the theater with the least amount of resources, with the least amount of, you know, clout, especially because they're a brand new theater company doing all of this work, um, to actually operate within community, which is a word. A lot of people in the theater like to throw around, but don't actually know what that means, um, or don't actually use it in practice. You know, I have big thoughts about that, but, um, yeah, and I think that's just like that spirit of what it actually means to be in relationship to one another, which I think is really clear in the community theater level. Uh, I mean, don't get me wrong. We all have our stories, not everywhere, but anyway, but so to say is so clear, um, just at the heart of it is one that I wish, uh, was more present, um, through all the different levels in, in areas of the theater. Um, and then, yeah, and then I guess like finally to feel like wondering where the natives are at.  You're going to follow me on Twitter. My pin tweet as a spreadsheet of natives in it and all kinds of disciplines.  Anyway, um, is that there are so many resources run by natives led by natives met throughout community of folks all over the place. Um, and then again, also then also then tie all the pieces together. You know, natives look many different ways. I can guarantee you, um, it's on my Twitter at Tara Tomahawk pin tweet. Anyway, you can access it. Um, but anyway, um, is, you know, natives look all sort of different ways. Natives are everywhere. You know, they didn't get us all. Uh, they did not.  Um, a lot of people are like, no, you're not native. You're Latina. And I was like, no, it's very weird. But anyway, so to say, um, is, is that literally we are everywhere. We look all different ways. All of the shades, um, you can imagine it's just a matter of like, are you doing the work to actually be in community with people? Cause like, let me tell you the natives. We love Facebook. Go check out the Facebook events. You'll see. So many things. Um, yeah. I ain't never got nowhere in this country and I've gone a lot to places, uh, where I did not find native people, um, in the area, um, that it's at. So like, y'all, you can do it. Did you do some work? Ain't that hard? It really is not. Ah, top of me, my friends. I am so grateful to have you in this space and, um, I just appreciate the effort and the thoughts. And, um, and yeah, we'll be continue this conversation for a long time. We've all had them together in, in different spaces, different places. Um, but yeah, thank you for all of that. Um, Leilani. Hi all. Leilani speaking again. Uh, I have white skin, red lips, red glasses, brown hair and dark shiny nails at all times. Uh, uh, once again, I am closing out this panel with many, many, many thanks to Bonnie, Tita, Tara and Jasmine for sharing with us and naming one of the things that I personally am most grateful for in the space is the sharing of your languages. We've talked a lot over the course of this particular convening. The word community and the word communities has come up a lot. So naming part of the way we build that is with the words we speak and the words that we hear and the effort we put into those things. So thank you for your presence. Thank you for your contributions in all ways for folks who will be joining us for the next session. We are cutting it close. So it's in about 10 minutes. Refresh yourselves. I am putting it into the chat. Now it is a performance and Q and A with our friends at theater Capal, some of whom have joined us for the entire day. Again, you can log in here. The same reminder that has followed all of our panels and performances, please use the Huba app and website to your advantage. You can find information on our panelists and performers links to their website, social media images, whatever they have felt comfortable sharing in that space. If you have any questions about any of the links I dropped in the chat over the course of conversation, you can reach me at the same email address I have shared. I am happy to provide those resources that you can connect with our panelists. With many thanks and much love and I hope we will see you all for our next piece and hopefully we're going to get through with like maybe only one of us crying for the rest of the day. If we can do that, it would be an empty victory. Thank you all. Thank you. Mahalo. Much love.


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