بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم رب شرح لي صدري ويسر لي أمري وحل العقدة من لساني يفقه قولي بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم الحمد لله رب العالمين وصلى الله على السيدنا وحبيب قلوبنا وشفيع نفوسنا أبل قاسم محمد وعلى عالي بيته الطيبين الطاهرين المعصومين لاسيما بقية الله روحي وأرواح العالمين لتراب مقدمه الفداء ومع بعد رسبكت السكولرين، ألدين، بلدين والصلاة والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته إن شاء الله كما نحن نتذكره اليوم الماتدم of one of the descendants of our second Imam محمد حسن المجتبه وعلى عالي عبداللللصلاة وسلام we look at and we want to look at particular aspects of this great personality's life this personality that may have been overlooked to the wide majority of the population especially the people living outside the lands of Iran and especially where the person that we can rate tonight أو أردت إلى أشهر عبدالعبيم ألحساني في which we tonight look at his life from Australia, Sydney and we seek to analyze some important factors in his life and try to at the very best and within the time restraints that we have see what significance and what role he played and we want to take that and try to apply it on a 21st century perspective a level in which we can take it from it nowadays because we commemorate him and he died a thousand years ago and however if we look at it nowadays how does his death and how does his life affect our life how is it that we can learn from his life and put it into practice now when we look at his life there are many things that we can look at within the limited hadith that we have the first and foremost is we know that this particular person and obviously it was taken around in the messages that this person if you visit his shrine and this is a hadith from Imam Al-Hadiya if you visit this person's shrine and also narrated by Imam Al-Asqariya says if you visit this particular person's shrine it's as if you have visited Imam Sayyid Al-Shuhada Imam Al-Hussein عليه أفضل الصلاة والسلام نحن نحن كل شخص هنا في المسك of Imam Hussein when we look at this particular aspect and we know the rewards associated with such a ziyara the ziyara of Imam Al-Hussein we want to realize what kind of person was this that his ziyara and his visitation of his shrine is equivalent to that of Imam Al-Hussein not in all aspects obviously but when we look at it in perspective it's a particular person that we need to analyze now we look at Shaykh Al-Sadoq when he analyzes this particular person's life and he says this Imam this descended of the Imam this particular person he always used to go towards the imams and show them and tell them his عقيدة now as you think to yourself he's a descended of an Imam he's directly descended from the Imam he associates with who Imam Rida عليه أفضل الصلاة والسلام حمد جواد عليه الحادي that's the people that he kept in close contact with the imams however look at this particular important factor every single time he'd see them or from time to time he would tell them this is my belief this is my عقيدة can you make sure it's correct can you ensure that I'm on the right path that's the particular person that when you visit him his yara is equivalent to Imam Hussein in a narration now let's look at this particular aspect he goes to Imam الحادي and he says can you check my عقيدة he says what do you believe in he says I believe in Allah and he begins to say particular aspects of the oneness of Allah سبحانه وتعالى each one is more detailed than the other then he goes on after he extracts the idea of the oneness of Allah سبحانه وتعالى he moves on and he says that's because of the oneness of Allah سبحانه وتعالى I have deciphered and I have come to the conclusion that what that the Prophet Muhammad is his messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم and because I came with the conclusion that the oneness of Allah leads to the prophethood of the prophet of Islam I have deciphered that there is no other way for this religion to continue except with the حجة and I came to the conclusion that he is ولي and he is entrusted ولي after the Prophet of Islam the guardian of the message of Islam after the Prophet is علي and he is descendent صلى الله عليه وسلم now someone may come forth and say well obviously we are in the school of thought in which we believe in Allah سبحانه وتعالى we believe in the Prophet of Islam we believe in Ali ibn Abi Talib we believe in the 12th Imam the person when he went to Imam Imam Al-Haidi he tells him he tells him I believe A, B, C, D and then he states each and every Imam up until he got to him he says and I believe that then the Imam asks him this is an important factor for today the Imam asks him he says and after my son حسن العسكري he says the 12th Imam he says he will be in occultation do you believe in him as well this is an important factor he says you will not be seeing him the people at the end of time will not be seeing him as you see me عبد العظيم he says you will not be in contact he may be around us he may be in this very majlis he may be a person that we come across every single day when the Imam comes there is narration that states that when the Imam comes we look at the Imam and say we recognize his face because at one stage or another he has assisted us in something he has come across us we have seen him he is in occultation yes you don't have direct relations with him yes he is here he is taking care of the Shi'a now let's look at it in perspective not only the Shi'a every single person on earth he is the حجة of Allah on earth now the perspective I want to take from tonight is what is this aspect of the أقيد that we take into consideration and that we have to take into consideration that we have to every single day remind ourselves every single day put the calculations in front of us make sure that we are on the right path make sure that's what because there's one aspect that we've said in the past having knowledge of the message of Allah but there's an entirely different entity put it into practice that's where belief comes into place if you have knowledge how many people do we know that's unknowledgeable as in people come forth and I'm taking it from a perspective where I don't have much wisdom I don't have much experience in the world as in what's a 20 plus year old know about life how many people has he met especially the older generation can tell you this people that are not religious people that don't pray and fast people that do stuff that Allah سبحانه وتعالى says stay away from some of these people not the majority some of these people have more knowledge but have chosen to go against Allah you tell them history they'll tell you every single war that came they'll tell you شريعة they'll tell you every single jurisprudential argument do you pray he says no why? that's the question when you have belief in Allah when you have belief in the day of judgment when Allah سبحانه وتعالى in the Quran says وذكرهم بأيام الله what does it mean? and remind them of the days of Allah one of the days is what? is the day of death is the day at each and every individual will die the one thing every single person on earth the one particular thing that every single person on earth knows for 100% certainty that he will die doesn't matter if you're a Christian you're an atheist you're a Muslim you're a Jew doesn't matter you go to an atheist do you think you'll live forever? obviously he's saying no remind him don't you want to do good in your life don't you want to plant your آخر when you remind them of the day of judgment when you remind them the day of death then they'll begin to reconsider what they've done in this world then they'll begin to take into analogies what have I done what must I do to achieve my goal what must I do to achieve the goal in which pleasing the Imam صاحب العصري والزمان each and every one of us every individual in this particular room craves to look at the Imam for our eyesight to be blessed if you don't look at the Imam look at where he steps the dust under his feet we crave that but how do we act that's the question that we have to take into consideration tonight is knowledge enough without a shadow of doubt knowledge is not enough because we said شمر on the 10th of Muharram and we've said it before and I'll repeat it because it's something that we have to put into aspect شمر had knowledge of the Imam didn't he he cries on the chest of the Imam he couldn't bear killing him because he was looking at him while he was uttering the Holy Quran he turns him over so he doesn't look at his face and then he strikes him 12 times he takes his head towards about the life in his yard in Khufa he says I know this person I know who I've killed I know and he says the famous lines give me silver and gold up to my knees because I have killed the man that is the greatest at the time and has the greatest mother and father tell me does this person not know who the Imam is that's the question he had knowledge of the Imam what did he do the worldly desires when they come the aspects that Allah tests you in the aspect that someone may bribe you that the majority might go towards a particular place and you go against yourself and Allah and go with them because they're the majority and the Quran everywhere you look it says the مخلصين the people that are a handful the people of the book the people that are righteous the people that Allah has chosen go and tell me where it says the majority go and read صورة الواقع from the start to the end where does it say ثله قليلون إمام زين العابدين after the incident of Karbala he looks at a particular shepherd that had sheep alongside him and he looks at his companion he says what he says he says by Allah we and he says we the people of the house don't have lovers we don't have anyone loving us in Mecca and in Medina as much as there are sheep behind this person he says I counted them and there were 20 heads he says 20 heads 20 sheep he says there was not 20 people in Mecca and in Medina that loved the people of the house that's who the words of who إمام سجاد إمام زين العابدين after the tragedy and the incident of Karbala not on a normal occasion after the incident everyone began to know who the people of the house are إمام wrote three particular texts that distributed the school of thought رسالة الحقوق دعاء مكان من أخلاق صحيفة سجادية you just open it it has everything that you need in it it has du'as that you've never thought of in your life it has du'a before you even recite du'a and the single aspect is accounted for in Islam and when the prophet says كهاتين and he says about the people of the house and the book of Allah it means what as much as the Quran applies to our lives the people of the house will apply and we commemorate a person that knew this particular aspect knew that the importance of knowledge the importance of application the importance of reviving his soul reviving his accounting and saying what I have done and what I must do that's why we commemorate him that's why there's a shrine built on top that people come and have their blessings when they go towards this particular shrine in Iran now another aspect I want to draw your attention to and it applies to this particular scenario the idea that against all odds you have to stand firm and Allah will be with you the example is of Imam Al-Hasan because when we commemorate عبد العظيم Al-Hasan it's because he's what he's direct the sentence of Imam Al-Hasan now some people I'm not saying everyone but some people may come forth and say Imam Hussein is greater than Imam Hasan some might come forth and say that and we ask them why it says because of the incident of Karbala the bravery of Imam Hasan Allah the Almighty has a beautiful statement he says every single person every single Imam had a role to play if any incident happened when they were exchanged as an example if Imam Hasan was put in Imam Hussein's position and Imam Hussein was put in Imam Hasan's position would they act the same way the answer is yes because at that particular stage of Islam it needed a particular aspect it needed a particular stance when the Prophet says my sons Hasan and Hussein Imam Man whether they stand or sit قامة أو that's the concept that's the idea that Imam Hasan was put in Karbala he will do the same thing Imam Hussein did if Imam Hussein was put in Imam Hasan's position would he do the exact same thing it's one light one message one divine protection of Islam and look at how much they've sacrificed for us and what have we done in return how much do we know about their lives Imam Hussein I want to put a scenario into perspective look at it nowadays look at the greatness of Imam Hussein look at it nowadays and let's look at it in the concept of let's say a particular ruler that is an oppressive ruler a tyrant a dictator someone that we're all familiar with let's take as an example Saddam Saddam ruler of the time had money weapon people not necessarily people that wanted to be with him obviously some were forced against their wills other were threatened and a large majority was actually helping him now we had these three aspects wealth people and weaponry if someone comes forth in front of Saddam for example at his time at his peak and he says as an opposition as a opposition and he says I want to have a ceasefire and this person asks him Saddam is going to ask him he says well do you have people alongside you and this person will say no I don't have anyone he says okay do you have any weapons and that person the opposition will say I don't have any weapons and then he says do you have any money that you can back up what you say buy people out and that person would say no I don't how far do you think that particular opposition will go no money no people and no weaponry as in he's lucky that that person this particular person hasn't been beheaded there and then imagine that's the position that Imam Hassan was in معاوية at the time he owned the people through money he owned the weapons and he owned the wealth the treasury was under his hand he had all of that someone of a grand stature the image of Allah the mirror of Allah's message the guardian of Allah's message on earth Imam Hassan المجتبة at the time what does he do does he have wealth does the Imam have an abundance of wealth in which he can buy the people out معاوية did that Imam Hassan would never do that Imam Hassan would never do that that's the difference between the أهل البيت and those that opposed Imam Hassan doesn't anyone in religion doesn't buy someone if you don't have faith in that particular person he's not going to try to force you into his religion Imam Hassan didn't have any loyal people his general stabbed him in his leg because he was bought out by معاوية so therefore Imam Hassan didn't have people with him everyone was bought out against Imam Hassan he didn't have wealth with him and he didn't have weaponry imagine he has none of the above we said in the example of Saddam if someone was to come there he wouldn't even take him seriously I said what do you have to threaten me with معاوية and Imam Hassan Imam Hassan had himself but look at the position of Imam Hassan he says I am going to write a treaty and I am going to tell you these are the rules and regulations if you sign on then will come to an agreement and that in its perspective in itself shows you the greatness of the Imam having nothing however his word being heard that's number one number two look at the magnanimous nature and the intelligence of the Imam the divine intelligence of the Imam that he knew that in writing this treaty he will show what kind of person معاوية is how look at the particular point that he raised one of the points if you die the خلافة returns back to me and if I die it returns to Imam Hassan number one did معاوية uphold this no he gave it to Yazid that's number one number two do not kill any of the followers of Ahl al-Bayt and you know everyone knows whoever is killed and who he has it but I want to give you a controversial example he killed the son of أبا بكر known as محمد بن أبا بكر one of Imam Ali's as we refer to them disciples that's what a great person he was number two number three he said stop the cursing of my father Ali ibn Abi Talib on the pulpits did he after معاوية 7 years until it stopped أمر بن عبد العزيز for a periodical time stopped the cursing of Ali ibn Abi Talib that's just some of the aspects that he gave to معاوية none of which he kept but to show us from one perspective that he is so grand that he had no one by him no wealth no people no weapons however he can bring a tyrant to his knees with words with position with character and the second position is trying to show you what kind of person معاوية is by revealing his true nature but that's the image that we have till today that people still say now معاوية was a good person image till today that people when they are asked and this is defining factor when we are put in a scenario where someone has to choose between معاوية and Ali and Safine you ask them tell them would you fight alongside معاوية or would you fight alongside Ali ibn Abi Talib people till today will say I will fight with معاوية oh you find people like Abu Huraira in which they looked at him as your narrator of Hadi in the time of Safine where are you what's happening do you take Ali's side or do you take معاوية where are you people look towards him he is standing on a patch of sand and he says الصلاة وراءة or Ali he says the prayer behind Ali is much more rewarding and he says the food with معاوية is much more as we say oily that's him he says now the food with معاوية is much better but the Salah with Ali is better but what for me Abu Huraira I'll stand on this tail والوقف على تلي لأسلام he says wherever wins I'll go after them that's the position that we're in that's the position that we're in when we're giving this aspect and we commemorate this man this man had position this man knew who he's fought for he knew his أقيدة he knew his Imam do we know our Imam we know his name we know when he was born how many days he was in an occultation do we know what we have to do in preparation of the Imam do we know that the Imam or do we have a factor that we know that the Imam is watching our everyday actions every Friday our Amal are giving to him do we know that there's aspects that we have no idea about the Imam whatsoever there is aspects that we have to learn and put into practice that's why we have to look at ourselves first and foremost I want to give you a personal perspective of debates number one we have to strengthen ourselves and I'll tell you why when someone comes forth at university and whoever's gone through this may or may not have gone through this in the university there was a particular stage two or three years ago when people would just take out turbaz would take out blessed turbaz and would break them we'd have them in the Mos'allah all the side minding their own business people will come the next day they're broken or at the back of them it's written Shirk the importance of our religion and the difference between the school of thought of Ahlul-Bayt and those against Ahlul-Bayt is that and a very definitive line is that the school of thought of Ahlul-Bayt teaches us that you have to elevate yourself you have to keep progressing the Imam say if you do not progress this day more than yesterday you are not from Al-Shia Ali ibn Abi Talim says this he says if you want to be of Al-Shia you must better yourself increase your knowledge elevate your rank imagine these people at university personal perspective they write Shirk and they break the turbaz now someone may come forth and retaliate as they did people came forth and took their stuff it's an automatic retaliation I'm not saying that it was a good retaliation we shouldn't sink down to their level the importance is where is knowing the aspect of turbaz so that when someone comes and attacks us you know how to defend it when someone comes forth and attacks us we know how to defend it why because you might not see or you may not see how or why or what effect it may have on that person but that person may have an effect on another I'll give you an example one particular person he was very anti Ahlul-Bayt let's just put it that perspective this person we were studying at the university exam period everyone studying this person had his computer louder than anyone else he's watching all these videos of the particular group at the time that we're fighting I don't know at the time I think it was FSA or it was an ISIS at the time and then he looks towards me and he says say it he didn't know what's happening what's religion what sector I was in he says say it what do you think of this and I'm looking and there's these people fighting and they're cursing the Shi'a and they're cursing the أم المصاعب سيد زي نب and what kind of perspective will I have imagine people around you and you're putting into that position I could have easily retaliated people around me there was Shi'a that could have easily retaliated but everyone was minding their own business and this person begins to talk five hour conversation in which we discussed at the conclusion of it تربة he talked about أقيدة we talked about the تربة and I asked I told him at the end of the conversation he says I am the follower of أهل البيت I believe that Allah سبحانه وتعالى is the Prophet Muhammad and I believe that Allah سبحانه وتعالى is Ali Ibn Abi Talib and I began to tell him all the imams and I said the true message and that we believe in is derived from محمد وآل محمد this particular person had a problem why? he says my father look at the particular aspect he says my father never taught us this he says this is not the أقيدة that's the wording he uses it's not the أقيدة that my father taught me and my father would not appreciate me looking towards people from this particular school of thought now when we discuss this we discuss the تربة and I told him what do you think of this because he was one of the people that were approving of the people destroying the تربة in the mosques approving of the people writing شرك on this particular تربة what happened? we discussing it سبحانه وتعالى at the time there's توفيق people may come they might have the knowledge but not sustain it in particular aspects when you need that knowledge you just forget it but الحمد لله at that particular time الله سبحانه وتعالى reminded me of the particular aspect of the تربة and we began a particular discussion I brought forth حادي he brought forth logical aspects that he thought were logical at the end of it I brought forth we went to the library and we looked at the person that hates of one of the people that hates the أهل البيت more than any other as I don't want to say it on the pulpit but just for a reference and because it's being recorded ام تايمية one of the people that has hatred towards the أهل البيت not normal hatred go look at his books what he has written about the تربة and I told him look you believe in him he says yes of course and I says do you know what he says about the تربة do you know what he says about praying on dirt and praying on clay and rocks in reference to the سجادة he says no I haven't read it I says go read it because it says in his words if you pray on the سجادة that's bid'ah and that's going out of Islam however the Prophet and he says it himself he says if you pray on the rock and you pray on the dust of this earth that is what the Prophet did I told him where's the bid'ah the problem is where when the person is asked don't talk to a shia because they will magically turn your head they have magic the Prophet what was he called when he first brought the message when he had logic when he had beautiful poetry perfect poetry perfect wording of Allah سبحانه وتعالى was he or was he not called a magician I ask you the first thing they called him was a magician nowadays you find it it repeats ourselves history repeats itself when you have logic when you have a perspective in which you can bring the masses with your knowledge with your intellect not saying yours as in hours we're saying yours as in from and derived from أهل البيت when Imam Sadiq says there is not a rock that you lift except the knowledge found under it is from us or من أندنا that's the aspect of knowledge and what knowledge do we have that we think all these advances all these medical advances all these particular theories that we come up with perspectives all these medicines that come into place chemistry, biology, physics Imam Sadiq says everything that you have on this earth is but one letter of the alphabet elephant غير معطوفة he says that's all you have and you think that you're great now inshallah to conclude tonight it's to give you an aspect if we don't take anything from tonight is this is that when we remember such people is that when we come towards the mosques we want to better ourselves yes or no yes that's the first aspect when we went to better ourselves we have to find out how because we know why we know why we should better ourselves without a shadow of doubt but how is it that we must better ourselves each and every particular person better themselves in a different perspective the negatives in a particular person and me is different than any other person in this room that's why we have to strengthen this within ourselves we have to know what our faults are in order to strengthen them we have to know what knowledge we're missing in order to strengthen it we have to go towards our اناما go towards our مراجع tell them what is it that we have to do where is it that I can better ourselves not as an individual only but as a community how can we work together to prepare for the Imam صاحب العصري والزمان when we take that into perspective brothers and sisters let's put it into a modern society in the modern day we say and we know for a fact that lying is haram backbiting is haram ABCD haram haram but when it comes to practice when it comes to practice when Imam زين العابدين he says not in مكة or مدين twenty people that love the أهل البيت does it mean that they didn't have knowledge we all have knowledge of أهل البيت how much do we listen to them how much do we follow in their footsteps what do we do when someone is backbiting what do we do when someone attacks us Imam زين العلي عليه السلام was sitting around the campfire someone comes and he curses علي ابنة ابطالب one of his men stands up draws his sword and is about to attack him Imam علي says hold on hold on what are you doing he says he's cursed you all the way what does Imam say he says سب ونبسب أفوان عم ذن he says you could there is a concept of عين بالعين there is a concept he does this you do that yes but the great aspect and the morals of أهل البيت teachers that what he has done a particular perspective leave it with Allah when he's attacked in the market place when he's humiliated in the market place he goes towards the mosque he doesn't attack the person he goes towards the mosque the person finds out he runs he says I'm sorry I didn't know you were the leader and the general of علي ابنة ابطالب's army forgive me he says I've already forgiven you that's the reason why I'm in the mosque because I prayed so Allah may forgive you for what you've done that's the ashab that we have to look into this that's the people that we have to go in there footsteps because at any time we might have an aspect where we think that we are elevated we think that we have knowledge we think that Allah سبحانه وتعالى is happy with us we may reach this and Iblis 6000 years he prayed to Allah worshipped Allah where is Iblis now one aspect goes down there's a particular person and I end on this note برسي صات his name was Jewish rabbi by most narrations this person the narration stated that his دعاء was automatically accepted by Allah سبحانه وتعالى he was in the synagogue 247 he was worshipping Allah praying towards Allah gaining closeness towards Allah the king's daughter became sick they took her everywhere and everyone would say there's no cure for her so the king said I know that there's a rabbi by the name of برسي صات take it to him take my daughter to him برسي صات he comes he says what are you doing he says now we want to leave this girl with you make the دعاء pray to Allah that she is cured and insha'Allah tomorrow we'll come and take her so برسي صات he says I don't want anything to do with the king I don't want any aspect to do with this particular he says now we'll pay you in a grand sum we'll elevate you we'll give you bonuses so they left the girl with her the daughter of the king he prays look at the closest of this person he prays to Allah she's cured then what happened this is the aspect when I say that we may come forth and when any of our grand مراجعة any of our علماء anyone with knowledge when he's asked do you do this particular aspect of Haram no way will you see them or find them say no I've never done that or no will I do that what did they say he says I seek refuge in Allah when this aspect happens that Allah guides me because it's easy to say that I won't commit this sin I won't look at this sin I won't say that particular aspect but when we put in the position there's a different category altogether برسي صات what happens the shaitan begins to speak to him he says it's a girl she's a young girl she's a beautiful girl she's in her health no one will find out الشيطان وصواس so this particular person the shaitan is playing with his mind remember he's one of the people that's always with Allah سبحانه وتعالى in his remembrance all of a sudden he commits an act of atrocity he commits a haram act and look one haram act leads to another and the Quran states this don't go in the aspect don't follow in the footsteps of shaitan don't follow in the footsteps of shaitan don't follow in the footsteps whether or the big footsteps doesn't matter don't follow in the footsteps one haram let's count it then what does he do the shaitan comes again he says well you've done a committed haram what are you going to do now she's going to go tell the king you've done ABCD you have to kill her second aspect so he says you don't have to he kills her he says what do you want to do now the shaitan comes again he says you have to bury her if they find out you're dead he goes buries her the brothers come back the next day he says where's our sister he says I don't know I cured her and she left she left so they went searching for her they had no idea that this particular person that's called himself religious has done that particular act so after he leaves they look around look around shaitan in bodies and he tells the brothers he says what were you looking for he says we're looking for we're looking for a particular girl our sister he says okay that particular person killed her I've seen him and he's buried her in the backyard so he goes the brothers go they dig it up and they find the girl that particular person is taken away and he's the حكم is what that he will be hung the king said you will be hung prosecuted his whole life worshipping Allah سبحانه وتعالى then it comes into perspective that what at the end of his life he's going to be hung even in the last dying moments this person sees the shaitan and he begins cursing the shaitan he says look what you've put me through I have worshipped my whole life because of you I'm in this place and shaitan comes again he doesn't stop there shaitan always comes he doesn't stop there his last words shaitan comes and he says don't worry I'll save you he says how he says bow just bow to me I'll save you he says I have a rope on my neck how am I supposed to bow he says just with your eyelids he bows with his eyelids and he's hung and shaitan's laughing he says I've captured another one of these متفين I've captured another one of these people that you thought oh Allah that is close to me and that's what we have to take into perspective if we know the أهل البيت and we know their teachings we have to elevate our rank we have to educate ourselves and our children and our friends and our families and not just educate ourselves but also put it into practice and I end on this note brothers and sisters and inshallah we pray to Allah that Allah may allow us the معرفة of أهل البيت he may allow us to elevate in the rank in the eyes of Allah may increase our knowledge of the أهل البيت the معرفة of أهل البيت and we pray to Allah that he raises us with the أصحاب of إمام صاحب العصر والزمان بباركة الصورة المباركة الفاتحة تسبقها صلاة على محل محمد وآل محمد


Thank you everybody for coming this morning. We really appreciate you being here and representing the support of Five Points and the Flying Biscuit Cafe after their long-awaited opening. We're very excited they're finally open for business today. They opened at 7 a.m. this morning I think too much fanfare so we're gonna continue that now. I'm gonna have a councilman will bring and come up and speak to y'all and then our mayor will speak and our two owners John Robert Barth and Kevin White. Thank you. Thank you so much Katie. We're at it again Katie. More investment in Five Points. Very important hospitality district in our wonderful city. Very lucky to represent close to District 3. My fellow council member Ed McDowell is proud to have more restaurant offerings in our wonderful little sleepy village here in Five Points. So thank you so much John Robert and Kevin for your investment. Just taking a tour through the Flying Biscuit. How about that outfit? That is a beautiful, beautiful restaurant and I think a lot of that goes towards the hard work and the determination by Mashburn Construction and all the wonderful work they do. Not only for outfits, new construction here in Five Points but throughout the city. Very lucky to have wonderful construction partners. CCNB. Were y'all involved in this? Not yet. Okay. CCNB another wonderful bank here in Five Points. So it's good to see small businesses, local merchants working together to make successes like this happen. None of this could happen without the leadership of our council and especially our mayor. Mayor recommend we are open. We are proud to be growing this little lovely economy of ours and it's great to see success stories like Flying Biscuit Cafe. Thank you so much and welcome to Five Points. Well, once again, we're here opening a great business very excited for John Robert and Kevin's investment and of course Hampton. They couldn't do it without Hampton's interior design work, right? It's so great to see a family, a small business being built up by a family in our community and a continued investment. You know, as we celebrate these openings, but we're also seeing opportunities and showing folks that small businesses are welcome in Colombia and the support is overwhelming as you see all the people here. But the talk and the excitement about having a concept like Flying Biscuit join our community and I hope this isn't the only one that the family behind me will bring to the table. I know that John Robert and Kevin have a heart of gold and really care about our community and Flying Biscuit will be not only a place that is hiring and investing in our community but also giving back, which is so important for us as we continue to grow. As we go across the city and we embrace these new business friendly initiatives and we encourage and tell our story. Colombia is a hidden gem and we haven't told our story and this is just one more story we get to put in another chapter we get to talk about as we go out and expose Colombia had a great opportunity yesterday to float the river for three hours with with folks from across the globe working within commerce and how they could see the different aspects of our community that that not only are we city full of 60,000 college students, three entertainment corridors, hundreds of small businesses, a fort that brings $4.5 billion worth of economic impact to our community. So we continue to tell our story and can't wait to tell this story. But thank y'all for being here today. Thank y'all for your investment. We really appreciate it. And Hampton, thanks for being part of it, buddy. Hey, everybody, I appreciate you coming out today. We are thrilled to be in Colombia and more importantly in five points. We have been here for years and just wanted to bring this amazing brand to Colombia. I feel like it's going to be a huge success. We're located, you know, perfectly in five points in the heart of the city. Hampton said the food is delicious. So take his word for it.  We are open seven days a week and can't wait to see you coming to see us very soon. Thanks everybody.


What's up everybody, Jason here with draftspeakscagebrakes.com. 2022 Canadian Chronicles draft picks football just sold out. This is a four box break, pick a teams number three. And again guys, we're gonna give away a free box. Just remember guys, as the first couple of pick a teams, there is no track bus out yet. So we're just kind of, you know, we're gonna just like everybody else. So we're selling all the teams. Of course, some of these teams are as low as $10. So the majority of them are between 10 and like 30 bucks. So nothing too pricey, but since we are doing a promo, that's where we're selling all the teams as is like that. And of course, so just remember, there may be certain teams not represented. We don't know that. Most likely it might be where most teams don't have autographs or some teams don't have autographs, but they should be represented. And then of course, we're selling every team of course for the promo still. So if you buy two teams, you get one entry to win a free box. That's like 150 bucks. And then four teams gives you two entries, six teams gives you three entries, et cetera. And we're all courtship and we're gonna go by current team of active team that play for the longest. So we're just using Wikipedia and NFL draft to look up, if not we're searching these players and seeing where they were signed to after they were undrafted and then it fell. So here we go guys. So Anacobarang got Las Bob Mojo, Dolphins, Titans. And again, we got left or right. Let's see if we can roll a one, two, three for the left, four, five, six for the right. Six, one, two, three, four, five, six. These ones very will be for the next one. I don't remember. I know I wrote TV. I forgot the player, but the video's uploading so you should be able to watch it or you can rewatch that just by scrolling back. I don't remember the player though, to be honest. It's gonna take a little bit to remember most of these players and where they're at right now. Since this is actually the first official product. I don't know Tanner, let me see, sorry. I don't know if I can answer that for you without really looking at it I guess. Let me see. Yeah, it was a Rashan White and I believe he was drafted. Third round pick out of Arizona running back. So I don't know if you wanna look further into that man. Which I believe was the first round pick as well. We got to 49, that is a score Eli Manning with a Travis Kelsey. That is number 299. Like I said, I think Birx was a late first rounder for his Birx Sons. 18 pick and that was Tennessee Titans. Jomachis. Price. Devante Price. Florida International to 1.99. No Devante Price. So let's see where this guy's at. American football running back for the Indianapolis Colts. I swear to God, the Colts and like Ravens and have like the most end of these product by far. College ticket there of Zameer White. Brian Robinson, Jr. Nice triple relic and autograph. It's to 25. Robinson. That's Washington commanders. Third round pick out of Alabama. Commanders is going to Garrett. We got Brandon Smith to 149. Which I think yesterday looked this guy but I don't think he was drafted for me, double check. Oh, it actually was. Fourth round pick for the Carolina Panthers. Number there of Aljabo. All right, next one. Ritter. Desmond Ritter, which I believe was Falcons, correct. Have a John Metchie tonight in line. Devon Lloyd, I think was drafted by the Jacksonville Jaguars. Got a green scope to five. That's Kyren Williams. Nice, let's see. Kyren was drafted. Yes, Los Angeles Rams actually. Running back out of Notre Dame. That's Rams going out in Cumberland. Very nice on there, man. Justin Ross. That's triple relic in autograph 299. I think we just looked this dude up just not too long ago, like in the last rig, right? And that was Chiefs Diego with that one. Tyler Allagir, Stafforda 149. David Aljabo and Devon Lloyd. Chris and AJ, what's up, man? Nice. Safe travels, good luck. I have a couple buddies that are already in Vegas for the Wooster to Poker as well, so good luck. I'll go and I'll take it easy. See ya. Atlanta Falcons for the running back out of BYU. Aljabo's Baltimore Ways. All right, two more boxes, guys. Mack Jones, Sam Hell, Bryce Hall, George Pickens, and Xamir White. N149, Justin Jefferson, Sean McGrew. All right, let's look at a couple of these guys here and then we'll have a redemption. Xamir White, drafted by the Vegas Raiders. All right, I know Sean McGrew. Sean McGrew. Nobody picked up Sean McGrew? I don't see Sean McGrew sign with anybody. I might be our first not affiliated one. Yeah, that'll be our first player that's not affiliated with anybody, so we'll have to give this one away. And that'll go to the one lot as well. And here we go. In-flight signatures, car number 32, Khalil Shakar, which I believe Khalil was drafted. Our secure is Buffalo Bills. All right, here we go. Last box of the break, guys. Remember, I'm sure we'll get that fourth one done. Number four is down to seven, so I think at some point today we'll get that one done. Alec Pierce, nice Patrick there to 10. Josh Allen, that's number to 25, of course, that's for the Bills. And Isaiah Spiller to 99. Aaron Rodgers, red for Phoenix. And Bailey Zapp, which I think is a New England Patriots quarterback. Josh Allen to 10, goal. Nice one there for Buffalo. And Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant, that's an awesome one right there. Let's look up Kobe Bryant really quick. Not the Los Angeles Lakers legend. Kobe Bryant was drafted by the Seattle Seahawks. That's awesome. All right, and Spiller I think was also drafted too. That is Chargers and Pierce. I want to say, I think was Indianapolis Colts. I've seen this guy like three times and I still can't remember it. Yes, Indianapolis Colts. Brown pick right there. All righty, guys. Well, there you go. All the hits have been tagged to the teams. That's Mack Jones, of course, we know where that goes. And those are all the hits there. And then there was one player that I couldn't find, so we'll give that out to the lot with the non-NFL player teams. So if there is any base card or stuff like that, then that's where they'll go. But everything else here, I think has a team affiliation right here, so that's the good thing for the most part. So it should be more base. And let's give away the free box. So switch scenes. And then again, if you bought two or more teams, you have a chance to win a free box. So we'll do that giveaway and then the teams giveaway for the non-NFL team players. So Aaron just won, cuperman, you got four. And Brody, Diego, Donald with two. All right, 12 entries on this one. All right, let's roll it. Five out of four, nine times, good luck. Name and number one gets a free box. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. Boom, nine times, nine times. Joseph, you are the winner. So I got my free box coming your way. Nine times here on the non-NFL affiliated players base lot. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Seahawks, add numeral who knows. You're going to get the autograph there for Sean McGrew. Pretty sure to go to jasmuscasewrakes.com.


Hey, I'm going to let people in. Thanks everyone. Right, so I'd like to welcome everybody to today's live conversation about race and racism in Canadian post-secondary education and beyond that is a collaboration between McEwen University and the Conversations Canada. My name is Craig Zemski. I'm the Associate Vice President Research at McEwen University. I would like to start by acknowledging the land on which we gather in Treaty 6 territory is the traditional gathering place for many Indigenous people. We honor and respect the history, the languages, ceremonies, and culture of the First Nations, Métis, and Inuit, who call this territory home. The First People's connection to the land teaches us about our inherent responsibility to protect and respect Mother Earth. With this acknowledgement, we honor the ancestors and children who have been buried here, missing and murdered Indigenous women and men, and the process of ongoing healing for all human beings. We are all reminded that we are all Treaty people and of the responsibility we have to one another. So again, I'd like to welcome you to the next event in the webinar series that I've kind of been formally calling McEwen in the mixed events. These conversational events have brought together McEwen faculty, staff, with various community partners to discuss pressing societal issues to allow us to see these issues in a different light so we can better understand the issues and ultimately try to work collaboratively towards common solutions. I always say universities are a microcosm for what occurs, what happens in society, and I think for us to be relevant, we need to put ourselves out there and be in the mix. So today's event was coordinated at McEwen University through the Office of Human Rights, Diversity, and Equity, and the Office of Research Services working in collaboration with the Conversation Canada. So I will just briefly introduce our two conversationalists and then I will turn it over to President Trembi and Ms. Riva Saba. So Dr. Net Trembi is the President and Vice Chancellor at McEwen University. She has a wealth of experience and knowledge both as a leader in both the post-secondary and the public sector. In addition to being a very accomplished academic, she spent nearly 30 years building a career with the government of Alberta. She's the current Chair of the Canadian Research Knowledge Network, which is a partnership with Canadian universities that is dedicated to expanding digital content for academic research and teaching in Canada. She's on the Board of Directors for the Conversation Canada, as well as very recently, as we know, serving as the Chair of the City of Edmonton's Community Safety and Well-Being Task Force. Benita Srivastava is a journalist, educator, and media innovator with experience in South Asia, South Africa, and North America. She's reported and edited for the New York Times magazine by The Billet Voice and Savoy. She co-hosts the Asia Pacific Forum at WBAI Radio and the Solid Mix at CKLN for over a decade. And she's also taught media for non-government organizations in Canada, the US, and Rwanda, as well as teaching at Ryerson School of Journalism as a professor of journalism. So I will now turn the conversation over to Dr. Trimme and Ms. Srivastava. Thanks, Craig. That was a great introduction. It's nice to be here. And thank you very much for the invitation to McEwen University and to everybody who helped put this together and organize it from the conversation and also at McEwen. My name is Benita Srivastava.  Then if you don't mind, I'm going to go right into it. This is the podcast world. And in the podcasting world, we normally don't have a visual. And I've had some of my guests who've told me that they've actually spoken to me with the headphones on while lying on the ground or sitting on the couch. So we're just trying to get into kind of an intimate space with each other. And I invite you all to join us along on the journey. And we are here today to talk about some of the issues around race and racism. That is what our podcast Don't Call Me Resilient is about. But we also want to get into some of the everyday challenges that we're facing in our lives.  And I am going to really ask you some of those really pressing, curious conversations that we're all having with each other right now, which is how can we make our Zoom lives better? How can we run a meeting that's interesting? Those are some of the just personal selfish questions that I have for you. But I'm going to jump into our conversation today, which is about the role of the university and the role of the university and the future of the city and how these things are connected. As Craig says, we have some responsibility for those of us in universities. And having grown up in an academic family, I take this very personally as well. Some people think of universities as places of education. And they are places of education. Of course, they are that. But they're also so much more than that. They can be so much more than that. And they're called upon to be so much more than that, as I'm sure President Trinby and Annette, you can tell us all about the pressures to be excellent in research, to be amazing in business, real estate players, real estate acquisition, to survive as businesses. These are all some of the pressures that universities face. But we also have to be good at change when we're talking about universities. And we are in the middle of massive changes right now. We are six years past the TRC, the truth and reconciliation, the 94 calls to action, six years past that. Where are we now in those 94 calls to action? University has been called to integrate many of these, as many of these actions have to do with education. And we're also in the middle of a year of what many are calling a year of racial reckoning. And what is the role of the university? When we spoke last week, Annette, you said this has really been on your mind a lot, which is what is the role of the university in the, what's the role of the recovery? What role can the university play in the recovery of some of these things? And I say recovery in kind of a very large way. So universities are called to be part of this change. And many, many people challenge the idea that universities must do more than merely reside in the city that they belong to. They must actually take part in the city. They must integrate with it. And they must take part in having a role in part of its social change. And I'm really excited to be here today with Annette because Annette is someone who really embodies this idea of really wanting to take the university out into the world and out into the city and see what kind of impact the university and the city can have together in terms of imagining the future of the city. Well, we're really in a moment. I know the kids right now don't use the word pandemic. Like they say things like panini. Apparently saying panini instead of pandemic takes the fresher off of what we're talking about. But we are in the middle of this panini pandemic. And we do have to sort of, we are facing so many things that we have to talk about so many challenges. So I just, I'm gonna reiterate again some of the things that I said earlier on and Craig has introduced me, but I'll start again with that, which is my name is Vinitha Srivastava. I'm the host of a new podcast about race at the Conversation Canada, which is called Don't Call Me Resilient. We do tackle some deep issues about race and racism and joining me today live. My co-host for the afternoon or for the morning is President Annette Trimby, who's as you know, President of McEwen University. So thanks for having this conversation with me Annette and thanks for sparking the conversation. So although Annette, you've only been the President of McEwen University for under one year. You've been faced with many challenges and you've already challenged this idea of the university as merely being in the city. You understand that it's not enough just to hope for inclusive societies. You actually have to take action. And your philosophy that the university must also integrate with and work for the city can be seen in your latest work, which has really recently been in the news. So I'm sure many of people have heard about it, but that you were recently called upon by city council to chair an independent task force on community wellness and safety. And that task force presented its findings this week to city council. And that task force was a direct outcome of Black Lives Matter protests or the calls to action from the Black Lives Matter led protests, led marches this summer. And they were challenges to policing. So this week your task force that you chaired released the report and the report is called for some significant changes to policing and to safety in the city that you were part of Edmonton Police Services. The police chief has expressed his disappointment and he's declared the report to be inaccurate. And you've presented your task force has presented its 14 recommendations to city council and they're not gonna take months to deliberate over recommendations. So no one said fostering engagement in the city or fostering change is gonna be easy but Annette I know that you're up for the challenge and you're not backing down. So I know that we have a lot to talk about. So thank you again to McEwen and to the conversation for organizing this event.  So I'm gonna jump right in Annette and I'm gonna talk to you a little bit about what I mentioned earlier which is that you've been in this role about five months at the university and you've started five months into, I'm gonna say at the pandemic. And I know that safety of students and faculty were really top priority on your mind but as we mentioned that you've also been called to do this other massive duty which is to chair this task force. So what you said and one of the things that you said in this report is that Edmonton's community safety ecosystem desperately needs to be modernized. So can you tell us a little bit about this report? What are some of the things that you recommended? I know it's a lot. Well, just tell me about this report. I like open-ended questions. I like open and I'm just pretending we're having a conversation on the phone because it's a little bit, I'm watching the caption, I'm seeing myself on screen. I have a blanket on my legs but I'm gonna try and relax and just pretend we're talking live. It's great to be here with you too. And one of the things you said early, you talked about hope is not a strategy. Hope is not enough, right? So I did arrive at McEwen University, I'm gonna say in the middle of the pandemic but it's not really the middle because we're still in the pandemic or Panini or whatever your kids call it.  But in many ways, I arrived in the middle of a triple pandemic in Alberta with the oil and gas situation and our economy changing so fast on top of the pandemic. And then you add to it the rational reckoning. And my thinking has always been and I've been a university president now this is my second time and the first time was at the University of Winnipeg. And when I arrived at the University of Winnipeg, they too had some fiscal challenges. And then city of Winnipeg, that was the year Winnipeg was declared the most racist city. That was the year Tina Fontaine was found in the Red River. So there are some similarities. One of the differences though, arriving this time at McEwen is I didn't have the luxury of in person or time, right? So you add the oil and gas, the pandemic and the racial reckoning. So I arrived at a very charged time. And part of what you do when you start at a new university is you really take the time to get to know people, you take the time to understand and you learn a lot by walking the halls, you learn a lot by attending seminars. I've been trying to do that, but Zoom isn't quite the same as being there in person. So about the report, it's really about a journey. And first, why did I say yes? I said yes. My husband said to me, why did you say yes? I said yes, because I think the role of a university is broad teaching, research and serving the public good. And by serving the public good, it really depends on how you see public good. So I think it is part of my role to be out there in community, providing some service. And in my past role, I often did things for, I did a task for the city of Winnipeg, I did something for the federal government, I did something for the provincial government. So I do think that's part of my expertise is process and I have been involved in a whole number of things. So I did it because McEwen is downtown, we are in the mix. We have a role to play in recovery, recovery defined in so many ways, bringing people back down town, the economic recovery in Edmonton, as well as we have a leadership role to play in anti-racism, equity, diversity and inclusion. So about the journey, I said yes. And part of why I also said yes is what the city did something very different. This is a task force like no other because they deliberately went out and asked a search firm to put together a task force with community members that had lived experience as well as a broad range of expertise. On top of that, they appointed members of the police service, they appointed a representative from the Edmonton Police Commission and they appointed two people from the city. I've never had the experience of working with such a diverse group. So part of it is I wanted to have the opportunity to learn from those task force members. And I was the late addition. They figured out who they wanted and then they sorted out who they wanted as chair. How was the chair chairing that kind of a diverse?  How was that for you? Well, it was a lot of fun and very rewarding and tough emotionally sometimes. And we did all of our work through Zoom. No, actually Google in this very room and we did it in the evening and everybody on the task force has a complicated life with jobs and children and all sorts of things to take care of. And often people arrived and we'd start the meeting by sharing their day. So I was so impressed. This was such an engaged group. They really laid their soles bare. They were very open-minded and we did things in a totally different way. So... Yeah, sorry. I don't mean to ask you again. I'm just so curious. So you start things in a different way only because I think so many of us struggle with this when we're having these kinds of challenging conversations. I mean, the conversations must be really challenging when you're talking about policing and safety and community emotions. And you're saying that there's a mix of people, those who've got the experiential level and then you've got the people who are maybe more theoretical about it. And then you've got the practitioners at this, you know, you've got... So what kind of techniques did you use? Every meeting you started with sharing something about your day or is there another technique that you want or secret that you're going to share with us about what happened in some of those meetings and how you did those? Well, part of it was how we started and obviously the beginning, the middle and the end. And in the middle, I mean, we started... Many of you have been involved in very complicated system exercises. The role was huge because we were asked to look at how to make our city more safe and welcoming through an anti-racist lens. And part of the pressure was this task force was created in response to the Black Lives Matter protest and a series of public hearings where the majority of the people that showed up at those public hearings called for a defunding of police. And in many instances, what they meant by defunding was to invest in things to reduce demand for police. So although the scope was broad, one of the tensions in the group was the relative focus on policing. Compared to everything else in the community ecosystem. So if you look at the report, there are recommendations on investing in other things in the ecosystem. For example, public washrooms, for example, indigenous shelters. One of the other tensions is today, city council will probably be releasing a report that speaks to all of the money flowing into Edmonton social safety net, money from the federal government, provincial government philanthropy. And what it demonstrates is there is a lot of money coming into the system overall. So I think one of the counter arguments to one of our recommendations, which was to freeze funding to police and take what they would normally get through a formula and invest that into some things to reduce demand for police. Today a report will come out and it will say there's so much money in the system. Really the problem is just one of coordination. So maybe you could debunk or maybe explain something that I think is commonly, I mean, I think you touched on it just now, but the common misconceptions around what does defund the police actually mean? When, you know, that's the sort of cry and you get this kind of immediate defensive reaction to that. There will always be a role for police. The word defund though means different things to different people. The task force was clear in our report that we thought that word meant was to invest in services that would reduce demand for police. We did not recommend a cut in the police budget. We recommended a freeze. Right now they get predictable increases year after year. And this was a decision made by city council a few years ago and they're thinking at the time was that this would depoliticize police funding, make it formulae. That was a few years ago when everything was going up or everything was at least being maintained but we're in a different cycle right now. So what we noticed was police funding was going up but other preventative services funding was going down. Right. So it's not about getting rid of the police. It's about actually bolstering and boosting up other services that could help community services, things that you said, public washrooms, shelters, community services. Sure and in terms of how the task force approached its work there were a number of reports made available to us that were commissioned by the police service or the police commission or city council. There's a lot of information out there that members of the task force would collect and share. So we created a bit of a portal but a lot of the work was actually done by subgroupings of the panel that would go away and put some thoughts together. So it was an interesting process to actually come down to 14 recommendations. And early on in the process we decided that we didn't want to have a million recommendations and that we wanted our recommendations to be doable and we wanted to get transformation through incremental change, which sounds like a bit of an oxymoron to transform the world through incremental change. But if you pick the right ones, they start to feel doable and far less threatening to people. Yeah, I mean, when you look at the 14 recommendations they don't sound, there's nothing in there to me that sounds extreme or threatening. But one of the things that I found really interesting was that the police official response and one of the things, I mean, it was generally negative as you called it but I also think that it was interesting to me to hear that one of the things, one of the critiques about this report was that it was inaccurate or that it was under-researched. And I'm wondering what your response is to that. We use publicly available data and part of the sensitivity is always when you are comparing things like per capita spending on police, number of police officers per 100,000, you're always to some degree comparing apples to oranges, right? So there was a pattern though. So we found the data we could find. We said Edmonton looks like a bit of a spending outlier. We noticed that other things were either frozen or decreasing and to me that's a pretty straightforward observation. So it was, take a look and we compared to other cities about the same size as Edmonton. So again, the devil is always in the details but the pattern is there. So that's why one of their motions was to go take a look at the funding formula, figure out who they wanna compare themselves to and where it gets interesting is we also recommended some funding be tied to performance. So what's interesting, do you get more as a police service when crime goes up or do you get more as a police service when crime goes down? Right, so you need a suite of metrics. I mean, but some of those stats are indisputable in terms of the racial profiling of indigenous folks in Edmonton or black folks in Edmonton. Some of those stats are just indisputable information. Well, and again, it led to this conversation around what is evidence, right? And so for a number of the task force members, the days in between the release of the report and the actual presentation at City Hall were quite challenging because many of them felt that their lived experiences were not perceived as evidence, right? And that's why, I think we worked well as a team to try and tell our story on April the 6th. It is really challenging I think for when we're asking, when we're asking people to give their evidence to be witnessed to their experience. It's one of the, I'm gonna say it's one of the stresses that happens to I think especially indigenous black, racialized people of color when we're called upon to give our experience as evidence. And then on top of that, you're doubted or you're taken through this kind of critique in a very public way. Yes, but I am so proud of each and every task force member and we have created a bond, created a family. Our work is done. And that's hard for people to be honest with you and we should feel very good because we wrote a brave report. I was gonna say it's a very brave report. That kind of work that you've put out there, it's very brave. And I guess that's what I'm talking about. You have all the energy to do and the work that you put this brave report out. And some of the challenge now is to, I mean, how to deal with the rollout of that, how to deal with how people are responding to that. Well, and now for me personally, another reason I said yes to this assignment was because I was away from Edmonton for six years. And so for me, it's a way to connect back to the city and I wanna take what I've learned through this task force experience and think about the same issues on my own campus. The report of the task force is called safer for all. And each and every campus in Canada, I mean, we are paying attention to equity, diversity and inclusion, looking at our policies and procedures through an anti-racism lens. And we want our campuses to be safer for all. Although I might argue that I prefer the word brave and safety and bravery kind of go together. You can be brave if you feel safe, but I don't want people to think being safe means you're always comfortable because part of what university is all about is bringing you to things, new ideas that do sometimes make you feel uncomfortable. It's a really good point. See, on campus these days, there's a conversation about, you know, it's just going off of what you're saying about brave versus safe and who's allowed to feel safe on campus and when do we challenge that safety when we're challenging ideas that really shift and can make some people feel uncomfortable. So on university campuses these days, as I'm sure you're aware, there's a really fierce and current conversation that's happening about free speech versus hate speech. I don't know if you have any current examples that you wanna talk about. I'm sure there are some because I know there are some. No, there are always some. And again, freedom of expression in Canada is not like free speech in the States and freedom of expression doesn't allow for hate speech. How do you define hate speech? And you know, as well as I do, that often language is the center of these conversations and we are having some of those conversations right now in our classrooms at the Cune University. And I'm aware of those issues and part of what I think about as a president is the degree to which I put my energy into changing the system versus dealing with individuals instances where they happen. And obviously we have to pay attention to both. Yeah. But the real change is the systemic change. So how do you make the systemic change when it comes to things like hate speech and language on campus? Do you start making policies around certain language? And doesn't that get tricky as language changes so quickly? Well, exactly. So I don't want to make it just about language. Sorry that I led you into that. It sometimes centers around language, but I don't want to make it just about language. So, you know, part of it is, this is about cultural change. Cultural change is influenced obviously by tone at the top. But I've also learned, this is my second time around as president, that I'm not a big fan of grand gestures and proclamations, moonshots, without really an understanding of how to accomplish that. I'm a believer in setting and aspiring and inspirational vision, but you still have to think it through. So I want to move beyond the superficial and beyond the obvious things and dig a little deeper. And at the end of the day, whether you're talking about reconciliation or racism, or equity, diversity and inclusion, part of it is we need to put some thought to what gets taught how by whom. Yeah. And if you think of a university campus, the diversity of our students is always going to be ahead of the diversity of our faculty and staff as our society changes because our students are here for a couple of years and faculty and staff are here for decades, right? So we're in this race and we're never gonna catch up. So what do we do to try and at least try to catch up? So we have at McEwen done an inventory of all of our equity, diversity and inclusion initiatives and they're all over the place. Like there's so many grassroots initiatives, but I want to get some synergy from those initiatives. And I- So when you say grassroots, are you talking about from students or you're talking, what kind of grassroots? Is it city led things or- No, I'm talking campus led. So Irfan Choudra who was on the task force with me who's in our human rights and diversity office. I should also mention we had a student on there from McEwen social work program that was absolutely awesome, Leila Bellini. So students, faculty, the office of human rights and diversity, individual faculties have EDI committee. So there's a lot of activity. I'm trying to ensure that we get some synergy with all of that activity. And part of the role of leadership is to help set priorities and allocate resources. Yeah, yeah. That's a tough one. I mean, I just, for me, I'm thinking about my experience. I sat when I was a student activist at the University of Toronto, I sat on a, it was a presidential task force on race relations. I was a very vocal anti-racist activist in Toronto. And I think, to be honest, we were so active, like I actually have vague memories of, I'm gonna say, but I actually have vague memories of standing on top of the president's desk. Like I think we were quite bold in our actions. And I think partly to kind of, we actually got quite a lot done. And one of the things that happened is an EDI officer was appointed for the first time at the University of Toronto as a result of our activism. We had a group, the group was called the United Coalition Against Racism and then the Toronto City Chapter was the Toronto Coalition Against Racism. And I remember feeling even at 20 something at the time as an undergrad that I was being asked to sit on the presidential task force because it was safer for them to have me sitting at the table than standing on top of the table. Oh, that's a great metaphor. So I just, I feel like that once I got onto that task force and I sat every week with the president, Robert Pritchard at the time of U of T with the head of EDI, Professor Calvin Andrews and many others from the community. We sat every week, we came up with these great bold ideas. And I feel like we got, was my first lesson in getting weighed down by policy and getting weighed down in process. And then feeling like, you know, I was younger too, but I really wanted things to happen faster. And so I'm just wondering how you, that's, I guess what I'm trying to ask you is how do you deal with this weight of policy that can slow us down? Well, you know, what you've raised is quite interesting because I'm thinking of the intergenerational differences and what did your dad teach at the university? Yeah, so my dad also taught there. Okay, good for you. I'm sure that meant for some interesting family conversations. Yes. I mean, obviously you can try and make change from the outside. You can try and make change from the inside. Most of my career has been on the inside. I've had the privilege. I've been in powerful roles. I've been a deputy. I've been a university president. This task force gave me a real feel for being on the outside, trying to cost to be shown the outside, right? And there are different ways to try and cause change.  Every change initiative that I've ever experienced, I'm not a statistician like your father, but I always think in terms of bell curves and distributions, there's always a group of people that really want change and for change and they spend a lot of time together. And then there's a group of people who resist change. They too spend a lot of time together. And then there's people in the middle that both sides are vying for to join their side. And I think on a lot of issues that middle, you know, why are they in the middle? Well, they don't really know. They don't know the truth. They don't understand. So, you know, some training might help or they're afraid of change or they just don't know what to do. And so, you know, I'm always aiming to work with the middle and pull them to the change side and understand, you know, their motivations for being in the middle. And on our task force, many of the members would say anti-racism is a verb. Here are the racist or anti-racist. And I know many individuals on my campus would say, well, that's too simple. You know, there is a middle. There is a middle.  Are they anti-racist? Well, they're part of a system that has structures embedded in it. We all have our unconscious biases.  So anyways, I think part of it is giving people some solutions to do the right thing because I actually think people want to do the right thing.  This is the never-ending thing about the activist. You must be hopeful otherwise. No, absolutely. And it's funny in the debrief after the report was out, you know, some of the members of the task force were saying, I feel so naive. But by the end of the conversation, you know, they were feeling hopeful. You know what I'm getting at? Because, you know, they were taken a little back by some of the reaction. But at the same time, you know, let's be enthusiastically optimistic because the city council has said they're going to take 90 days. They're going to figure out which of those recommendations they can act on quickly. And they're going to, they will develop a joint strategy that is informed by our report. So we should feel good. Well, you know, there's a, there's the bound. I mean, of course, as an activist, we do have to remain optimistic. But essentially as an anti-racist activist, I think there is also a deep embedded skepticism that's also necessary. Because we know the systems are in place and the systems are designed, you know, to keep us in certain places. And so you have to have optimism, I think. But we also have to, in order to keep going, we have to remember the system is in place. And it's the systems that we're trying to break down. And again, you know, change requires momentum. Change requires leadership. And there's always a tendency to swing back. In my life, prior life as the deputy minister, when it came to policy, I was always worried about overswakes, right? So something is called out. There's a reaction. And sometimes it's an overreaction. And, you know, the ways too far back and forth are not good for people either. I prefer kind of continuous momentum in the right direction. Let me talk to you a little bit. Something completely different just for a minute. And it's something I've been thinking about, especially as we're on this, I mean, hi everybody. I realize that we're on a video call, although I'm only looking at you and you're looking at me, but I saw myself smile the other just a second ago. And I was thinking about women leaders. And I read an article the other day, actually on our conversation website about women leaders. And it was talking about young girls and smiling and how, you know, we don't have to smile. We shouldn't have to smile to make people feel comfortable. And I'm just wondering what are the unique, you know, if you think about some of the unique challenges of being a woman and being a leader, especially, I know there are studies on campus that talk about, you know, students and student evaluations, for example, students expect their professors to be nurturing if they're female. Or, you know, we expect certain things from women leaders. And you have been a public servant for more than 15 years in government, but also now, as you say, twice as university president, as a woman leader, do you have some specific challenges that you wanna talk about as a female in power? Well, you know, I will say early days when I crossed the river from the U of A, where I was doing my postdoc tour through the province of Alberta, you know, I tell people that I had a lot of very good mentors, but truth be told, I really learned how to fit into the system that was very, in the first department, I was in very male engineer dominated. And so I tell people, you know, female leaders before me had to really push their way in. I felt invited to the table, but I really had to adopt the norms of the table. And I think this next generation will change the table. So, you know, rather than just fit in, they will demand change. And that's why it gives me such pride to work at a university and interact with young people. I will say as a university president, as a Métis university president, one of the things I learned at the university, Winnipeg, remember I arrived there in 2014, Tina Fontaine's death, truth and reconciliation commission, you Winnipeg being called the most racist city. You know, we were on a nice trajectory in terms of indigenization, but I learned quickly not to promise things I couldn't deliver. And I also learned that I couldn't, I was held to a different standard. Then let's say some of my male counterparts who got a lot of kudos for a lot of apologies and grand statements. I really felt I had to deliver. And I don't know if I was imagining what people expected me or this was what I expected of me, but this is why I'm very careful. And, you know, to be honest, it means I make mistakes sometimes because there are times when I don't rush in to say what people hope I say. It's very difficult as a university president to speak on behalf of the university community. How often do you do that? And in a lot of universities, there's constant pressure on the president to make a statement on behalf of everybody.  So it's almost as though, you know, there are traps set for you to fall into and then you get into trouble. I want to ask you more about that, but I'm also looking at the time. I can't, you know what? I do feel like I lost, we got into a little bit of a phone call type conversation and I'm losing track of time. So I'm conscious of everybody's time too.  And I can tell you many stories myself about feeling held to a different standard at the front of the classroom or at the front of a meeting or any of these things where I think people are expecting something different from me because I'm a woman. They want me to be nicer. And I'm not that nice sometimes. They want me to be, you know, they want me to be nicer. I'm not, I want to say what I want to say when I want to say it.   So, you know, there's all of these kinds of things. But we've been talking a little bit about, you know, telling personal stories and how our personal stories also impact the work that we do. So for me, I grew up hearing stories of the British colonialism. My parents both grew up under British colonial rule in India. And so there was no way that I was going to go about in the world without a critique of British colonialism which also includes Canada. And when we moved, when my parents moved to Canada, this is how I was raised with this very kind of mind frame. And recently, I'm sure everybody remembers the story of Joyce Echequan in Quebec who was, who died in the hospital and recorded her own death and the racism that she experienced just before she died. And my daughter was trying to think about what she could do here in Ontario and Toronto. What could she do? She's 11 years old, she's in grade six. She's very law abiding, you know, 11 year old. And she decides, I'm not going to stand for the Canadian national anthem today. And this whole week, I'm not going to stand. And this is a huge deal for her because she's so by the book. She's one of those by the book kids. So she calls her grandmother, my mom, and says, what should I do? Should I stand or not stand?  So my mom grew up in poverty because her dad was always writing about the British government and always getting thrown in jail. So these are the stories, I mean. So my mom says to her, you come from a long line of activists. You sit down when they play the national anthem.  And I think part of, so part of that bravery of being able to go out in the world as an activist and also the knowledge that I have comes from those stories. And it's very motivating to me. It helps me walk with a sense of purpose and a sense of mission. Of course, I didn't just remain there, but that helped spark to me and set me on that. I'm just wondering if you have some of your own personal motivations like that, from your identity, from your community? Well, thanks, Vanita. So for me, growing up in Winnipeg in the 60s in a Métis family was kind of interesting because it was a time when you were really encouraged to not share that identity. And depending on how you looked, and I'm from a large family, and I was kind of in the middle in terms of how people saw my indigeneity. And my earliest memory of becoming aware of race was when I walked down the street and this little little lady that I used to visit. I was quite young, but we were free-range children like we could kind of, we were not so supervised as children are today. And I used to chat with this lady and she pulled me aside when I was about five and said, if you wash your skin with lemons, you will whiten up and nobody will know. So I went home and got the SOS and luckily my mother found me before I did too much damage, but those sorts of memories. And then, I think in terms of the powerful women in my life, like my Métis grandmother, the beauty of her was she was just so accepting of anything and everything. Like she was so optimistic and she was just so chill, chill, chill, you know what I mean? Like just the chillest person you could ever meet, most loving person you could ever meet. And, you know, which gives confidence, right? Because absolutely zero judgment. And then my mother very grounded when I went off to school. So, you know, there weren't a lot of people in my family that had gone to school. My older sister, there was a program you could become a teacher in a year other than that, you know, first generation.  You haven't forgotten where you've come from. So I'd say both of those just remind me of just how privileged I am and how other people don't have the same opportunities I have. So I would like to say I use the power I have. I try and be responsible with the power I have. Well, it sounds like you are.   I mean, it is a very brave thing to do. You've put yourself in the center of a little bit of a storm. Yes, I have. The task force work is done. I'm moving on. I could count this. All that being said, I've got a lot to do on campus and we're going through a strategic visioning exercise trying to figure out what we want to be in 2030. We're having these conversations, equity, diversity and inclusion are definitely coming up as is reconciliation, as is recovery in its fullest form. And the thing about McEwen that I love is they have embraced being a downtown university and there is a real desire to be connected with community, to be porous and to have impact. And there's a lot of openness to really thinking about students and how the world of work is changing and how people will be learning continuously, they will be moving in and out of our systems. And, you know, I'd like to say it's a very open-minded university, right? It's quite a humble university that I think people don't understand just what we have been contributing and what we do have to contribute. I think we're the type of university when you say universities are expected to do better. Yes. Like we are doing better. And again, you know, we're more nimble, we're more flexible, we're more student-centered. The research we do tends to be more interdisciplinary. We are connected with community. We're in a very interesting spot downtown in Edmonton, near the Ice District, near the Arts District with a number of not-for-profit social enterprises and social service agencies just north of us. So we're in the mix. So let's say you get a sudden windfall of cash, what would your dream thing to do be? Do you have some dream projects? Oh, I think if we got a bunch of cash, you know, I kind of see my job as we've got this ecosystem of incredibly creative academic entrepreneurs, right? So I would just find some seed money so they could go out and do what they want to do. So just more of that enabling, unleash, you know, all the capacity we have at McEwen to go change the world however they want to change the world. I mean, it definitely shatters all those ideas of the ivory tower, right? This idea that you are there by yourself and you're creating research. I mean, it actually enables and helps researchers to have their research have an impact. Absolutely, yeah. And this way our missions are aligned because that's what we do at the conversation too. We're trying to get, you know, space for researchers and academics to be out there in the world. And not that they're not, but just to have that message, you know, be known. Well, again, I think people forget teaching research, serving the public good. We're full of thought leaders and we're full of people who serve the community in a whole variety of ways. And I think we need to talk about that a little bit more. Which is why I like what the conversation Canada does because it's a way of amplifying the work done on our campuses. And again, our faculty members have full academic freedom. They can go study whatever they want, right? And they do. I've heard the new, you know, just talking about how language changes, EDI, but now EDID, equity, diversity, inclusion and decolonization. Well, you know what? I'm careful with that word decolonization. We are a provincial university created in law. And, you know, that's a moonshot. I'm not promising. Yeah. So I like to think of inclusion and reconciliation in terms of sense of belonging, more diversity and thinking carefully what we teach, how we teach it, who teaches and having a faculty and student body that is more reflective of the students showing up on our campus virtually and in person.  So you're the optimist, the activist optimist but you're also the skeptic because you're saying you understand that you are part of a system that still colonized. Well, and Rai Moran from the National Center for Truth and Reconciliation, I remember having this conversation with him and I would say Rai, when I meet elders and they talk about their grandkids, they're very proud that their grandkids have credentials from our colonial institutions. And I'd say, you know, I don't want to throw the baby out with a bathwater. That's a ridiculous expression, but he said, but the bathwater is dirty. And I said, yes, like we'll work on that. But again, I mean, metaphors are kind of wild and we have to trash a lot of the metaphors we've used in the past and create some new ones, but. Okay, I know we're out of time, Annette. I'm sorry. I'm looking at the time, I'm way over and are we okay? I know somebody's doing a timekeeper for us and maybe Craig can check in for us. I have this quote that I have to say as I'm gonna say thank you and close up, but I read something that you said the other day and it's this, as a leader of the university, I tell people our role is to absorb chaos, portray calm and convey hope. But I'm gonna add a fourth one. Our role as leaders is also to bring out the best in people. And thank you very much for spending your time with me today and for sharing all of that information with us. Craig, I'm gonna ask you to just jump back on and tell us how we are doing with time. You're actually fine, Vanita. I thought I promised to end at 11.15, so I just wanted to check in. I never wanted to want to stop a horrible experience. Yes, thank you very much, both of you. And Annette, thank you so much for spending all your time today. Is there a question that you wish that I had asked? I just wanna comment on your last one, bringing out the best in people because it really is about bringing out all of the capacity. And if I go back to the task force one more time, part of our message was there are a lot of people in the community safety and wellbeing ecosystem and help them because there's a ton of capacity there to help others, right? So I believe ecosystems are more resilient when they are diverse and don't call me resilient, no, just kidding. You can say that.  We do have to acknowledge our resilience but at the same time we're just, we can't rely on that. It's not fair to keep relying on that resilience. And I thought you'd ask me if I'm going to be vaccinated soon and I am, so. You are. That's my good news of the day. I'm gonna- That is fantastic news. Congratulations. At the end of the day, so. At the end of the day, that's great, congratulations. That's a big one. So I know we, I, as we live in this, I mean, crazy pandemic that the, I'm glad to hear that. That's really good news. Congratulations on that. I'm waiting still in Ontario. We're still waiting, but it'll happen soon. We're at the, we're, we see something and at least some bright light there at the end. And I don't say end as a real end, but you know what I mean. So, okay, thank you very much. Thank you for your time. All right, thank you, Vanita. It's been a pleasure. Thank you everybody for staying with us and hanging out and being part of this conversation. There, as you know, there's so much more we could talk about as you know, we could go on for another 45 minutes, but I know we have to stop. Possibly we can do a sequel to this one day because I'm sure there was a lot of conversations that we were cut short due to time, but I'd like to thank Annette and Vanita for, I think, you know, just the remarkable conversation. I mean, I think you touched on a lot of topics and raised a lot of key issues and, you know, to use a term that Annette's used before to enlighten it. I think a lot of people will come away from this more enlightened about a lot of different issues and it gives us the lens to look at these challenging issues differently and to think about them differently. And that's what post-secondary education, that's what we try to do. I really love, I'm gonna walk away from this conversation with the idea of a brave space versus a safe space. I think it's a really good one to keep in mind that we can't keep everybody safe when we're challenging ideas. So thank you for that.