What's going on guys got Kyle here relating sports cards, and we are ripping this is 2023 finest baseball eight box break number 36 Pick your team style. We had eight and D with the Red Sox We have Alex M with the Cardinals and the Rockies. We have Alan V with the Dodgers Anthony G has the Cubs. We got Carol G with the Royals Chris F has A's and Brewers We got Daniel with the Daniel C with the D backs Marlins Giants Got Eric N twins Homer H has the Orioles Jared M has the Astros Jared W has the Mariners Jeffrey W has Rangers We got Joe you with the Reds. We got Joseph S. Guardians Lee G has the Braves got Leonie G has the Nationals Logan H with the Phillies Mitchell H has the Padres Nicholas S. Metz Got Richard K with the J's got Rob W with the Angels Ryan B with the White Sox and Pirates and the Tigers and Tom has the Yankees Alrighty guys. Good luck. This is eight box number 36.  I'm so down.  Good luck. Good luck box one Ryan grabbing a spot and select for later. Just appreciate your shirt She can already grabbing some Star Wars for later guys Star Wars Sapphire I'll be breaking with Sam at the end of the night. We have fun one, man They got some some really nice cards hidden there We got original autos from the original set got Carrie Fisher autos Harrison Ford Mark Hamill Definitely hard to hard to find but some huge huge hits if we do find those There's a green mini diamond. This one's the 125 Mike trout start us off Mike trout and auto is Jonathan Aranda on the rookie auto there race First auto is raised me and Jake here. That makes sense Jonathan Aranda there got to start off with the rays got to There's a rookie refractor Bryce terrain Brewers bail Michael Harris rookie. There's a green lava to 99 linen Sosa. What's up, Ty? How you doing this morning, sir? And auto is drew waters rookie out of their Royals Royals on the auto world's finest of Bobby wit Garrett Mitchell and Shea Langley's Got a Volpe there nice one refractor rookie Anthony Volpe Cabrera Tautis baby rookie got a headliners Randy Randy Johnson Gorman and Julio headliners Harper Acunia you're done Come on now see some color. You see a super so I'm hit one out of finest yet Hit one So refractor of Chris Bryant Haraza Crawford Nice to Hey, there you go. Ty Catching thing this morning There's a rookie's insert Gonzalez Jovado say a Suzuki Gotta get on my Gotta get them early. That's for sure. Adley Rochman rookie. There's a von Grissom refractor rookie breaks Fragment Bo Nailer Rose gold one of my favorite parallels and it's a rose gold rookie Nolan Gorman Nice one there cardinals the 75 That rose gold is a sick design or sick color Gunner Henderson rookie Contreras Headliners of Beltry Moreno rookie and Kodai Senga Ready guys box to this one is a box case number 36 pick your team style. We got number 37 right after Still just a couple teams left on number 37 if anyone's interested And then we have some tribute then we'll get going on some select PYT got select H2 the only random team break today of the morning session I should say Select H2 and then we've got some select football and we end with a 1 football PYT style Three bass one decent size. Oh the thunderstorms rolled in this early. Dang time Well, hey, at least you got some fish. Yeah, a couple bass. Nothing wrong with that Nothing wrong with that. There's the aqua to 250 Jonathan Aranda raised rookie and Otto is estuary Ruiz rookie Otto there for the ace On the not numbered refractor Otto comforto. There is Jake the grumb Mike trout judgy Storms and wild in Boston past few days Yeah, that'll happen here in Orlando. It'll couple days in a row. It'll be uh, it'll be serious and then I'll Calm down for a little bit. There's a judge rivalries Yankees For the most part this time of year. It's pretty much raining every day around here though Hey, what's up Pete morning sir morning How are we doing today Pete? There's a Aqua shimmer to 175 chef G Garrett Cole refractor Byron Buxton Francisco and Wheeler Feels like Forrest was just here like two hours ago, but He was uh, he was ripping late last night. I saw you get the day off though So he'll be he'll be sleeping in today. I think headliners Nolan Ryan. I say that no pride comment in the chat right now Sub soul Sub soul, how we doing? Everyone's having a nice relaxing Saturday start the day Headliners are show. Hey Anyone got any any fun plans for today? There's a Corbyn care. I'll sell tie already got out in the got out some fishing Nice start to the day. There's a refractor rookie Libertor Libertor my favorite players For what happened for what happened Should have been there's a purple rookie. This one's Christopher Morel the 250 cubs rookie Gonzalez hunter green you did Let's go Pete. You hit the God treasure chest what they call those That's awesome. Yeah chef G Riley green. Yeah, they call those treasure chest Pete. That is sick Every card has a mini that is a mini diamond. That's awesome, dude. That's awesome. You hit that We got a redemption. Come on now See a fire redemption here There is blue tray Turner to 250 there or 150 sorry Phillies and I see the word gold That's a good start It is finest moments autograph gold refractor of Miguel Cabrera nice one there Tigers Nice Mickey Golda 50 on the moments out of those are sweet Little throwback there nice one Tigers Miguel Cabrera 50 on that that's sick You go Tigers Yeah, I've been trying to pull one of those Pete. That's awesome. You got one man. That's awesome the treasure chests There's a headliners Acunia and Otto this one's Oscar Gonzalez Guardians On the refractor Otto menace this and yell itch All righty guys box three. Oh no card shows up in your area this weekend time. I Think we got what the Apocas shows this weekend. I think they got that going on today By us I think Lane's over there setting up at that one. It's not a very big show though ties So nothing nothing huge around here either. I don't believe I think everybody's trying to get ready for the national I think there's a Dallas show this weekend, but Other than that, I think most people probably getting ready for the national here in two weeks I feel like a lot of the promoters and stuff a show is probably new that people wouldn't be traveling too much There's the Aqua shimmer 175 bar in Buxton twins If I had to guess that's probably what happened say refractor Springer Acunia anyone going to the national a couple weeks from now No, we got a couple people going I forgot to say what's up the forest Sean Lane There's a gold Fractor Hunter Brown and gold is Otto for the Astros Hunter Brown Nice one there of rookie Otto to 50 We go stroves There's a big part of their a playoff run last year for sure headliners the kid Paraza Brandon Crawford. Yeah, I wish I was going to Pete, but There's enough enough cameras around there. You can get a get a pretty good idea what's going on There's a rookie Otto there Michael Grove Dodgers Not numbered Dodgers rookie Otto Appreciate you Dave grabbing some spots and select Headliners of Mookie Kodai Sanga Bregman is a rushman base laboratory Moreno, oh Hello, mr. Wahoos How do we do? There's a Volpe rookie and light blue to 300 this one's Buxton twins Gunner Contreras refractor Scherzer Mad Max Yes, sir. Yes, sir doing well. Wahoos doing well There's a refractor rookie Miguel Vargas yesterday, I definitely thought that um My pre-order tickets to Oppenheimer were for yesterday. That's not the case. It comes out next Friday So other than that I'm doing good. There's a quick 250 Cal Mitchell rookie Other than the fact that I thought I was going to a movie yesterday. I'm good Yeah, that was a surprise when I woke up. I did not realize that it was a week away It's a headliners junior. Yeah, I was like, all right, 330. We got the movie out tomorrow like all right And I realized the saps not off today. What that's a bad start He ain't here Yeah, it comes out next week, I guess Yeah, right. Wahoos. That's awesome. I hit the treasure chest They call those the treasure chest the all gold Those are sick people thought at first they were mistakes, but tops Tops actually made those on purpose the treasure chests All gold everything. What's up Nicholas? How we doing today, sir Doing good over here doing good over here. There's a rookie light blue Michael Togliate a 199 tow bar Got any fun plans for today Nicholas on this Saturday morning Hey, what's up, Yogi gold Goal It is gold rookie gunner Henderson nice one there. Oh 11 out of 50 on the Henderson gold Nice one there congrats Orioles, and we got a blue auto right behind. It's a 150 Nick Prado Nick Prado auto Sub Leroy. Um, nothing auto wise. I don't believe for the Braves yet. I don't believe so Seen a couple von rookies, but I don't think we've seen anything on auto wise. Maybe a couple inserts for a Cooney as well There's a refractor rookie is he killed a rock? Twitch crew is representing this morning. How are you guys doing? How are we doing? Which crew is active this morning? We got a Miguel Cabrera there 250 Tigers, Antonio Cruz, Gonzalez Edge white sparkle. All right, we'll take that Wahoos We'll take an edge the headliners of Pujols a Appreciate that Yogi Give them some subs There's a Ichiro and blue is Oscar Gonzalez there for the Guardians on the rookies insert auto little 150 Sion chain Oscar I know man. I got two reds two reds already There's a Lava to 100 bow nailer also guardians rookie Josh young rookie, I know it's uh, he's gotta be my most out of this like my lowest numbers and my biggest hits I guess It's crazy Cal Raleigh refractor loaded web Can't avoid the Oscar Gonzalez Not bad for the Guardian spot though. I Always find them. There's a Brett Beatty there rookie refractor. Yeah. Yeah for the most part Chris There's some guys with good autos But I feel I have a feeling it's just because the retire guys have so much more time on their hands really There's liberator to 300 They take a little more pride in it. There's Corbin Carroll rookie till like a lot of these guys kind of write it off just because uh, I Don't know it's their main job is pretty taxing as well. So they kind of just Kind of just sign it as however they can get through it not of the headliners some of them have a lot of uh, I mean obviously like the The bowman set and everything you have a lot of stuff to sign when you first get in there I think a lot of them Decide on a shorter auto so they can get through it a little bit faster Nothing that's necessarily a good thing, but I think that's what's going on is a Try to do it in a little less time for sure Yeah, Corbin Carroll does have a nice auto Corbin has a nice one. Brett Beatty's ain't bad either Brett Beatty's is pretty nice from this set Couple of rookie guys. Volpi's not bad either. Yeah, it's not bad There's a couple guys in pretty good ones. There's Ruiz. They're S. Ruiz the 250 purple rookie refractor Bogarts Gulchman Pickens is bad. Pickens is a bad auto for sure He always signs in the black ink too. There's a rookie Kate Cavalli like half the time Yeah, Corbin Carroll. There's a couple guys when they just do the Just do the initials definitely don't don't have the nicest autos, but again like Probably don't have too too much time to be signing thousand different autos Brights Harper and Shohei nice one there green lava the 99 No angels getting a numbered Shohei Yeah, I know there was controversy with Messi a couple years ago They were wondering whether he signed his autos or not for the most part though I think everything seems pretty like standard like You see a sticker on you see all on card most guys are about the same Moe Rivera is definitely near the top for sure of the MLB autos for sure headliners Cal Ripken. He has a sick auto Very clean and he signs it dead on every time exactly the same Headliners Acunia and Oscar Gonzalez is blue rookie auto number two 150 Guardians Always pulling some Oscar Gonzalez man It's because you knocked the rays out of the playoffs last year Rub it in my face finest nose There's a Raffi Devers to 125 there. That's the green speckled evers and auto is linen Sosa white socks rookie Langleers bail Let me say bail Rookie the over Paguerra Pirates rookie refractor Yeah, pickets ain't bad pickets ain't bad Say refractor Corey Seager Yellich and Freddy Freeman There's a light blue to 300 JT Rob Muto Josh young rookie and the nasus Headliners is Dave Winfield Crawford and Nolan Gorman All right. All right guys Three more boxes got three teams left in the next one guys three teams left Let me see who we got here. It is Rockies Marlins and Brewers left Rockies Marlins Brewers Three teams left for the next one Andre Dawson. Yeah, his is nice. His is nice. I know what you're talking about He does have a sweet auto. I remember his Yeah, it does seem like you guys are saying though baseball they do The retired baseball guys seem to have like some of the nicer autos They probably signed a lot of like baseballs and stuff though in their time Yeah, I know a baseball players sign a lot of stuff during games after games that kind of stuff That's the 10 I believe Adley rushman and it's a rookie It is JJ Bleday for the A's number three out of ten. These are sick-looking cards here Got some 80s feel to him there that uh, three out of ten Bleday nice one their ace Kodai Sango Braggman Rector Al Tuve Moreno Vulpirookie Masataka rookie insert Seven polio sheet auto just thinking that one Couple people haven't pulled probably but it's a main one. I think of Refractor Alonzo Gunner haven't seen one yet Pete haven't seen one now that you mentioned I haven't seen a Jordan Walker either Headliners there Tautis a someone was mentioned that the other day. I don't know if it was you Pete Michael Massey rookie refractor For the Royals there. I haven't seen one now that you mentioned it though. I Definitely have not I don't know that any of us have It's it's possible it's possible They might have had them as a redemption and then just forgot to put the redemption in see me and what's Richardson there to 250 Aqua linen so so there to 199 and Auto 299 is Bubba Thompson rookie auto Rangers Rangers in 99 lanes boy, so I'm being as I'm being told I think I don't know if that's true, but hey appreciate you taking the Rockies Jeffrey the next one William grabbing a few select basketball spots appreciate you sir and Jason grabbing some sapphire for later Appreciate you guys. We'll keep on going here. Got mostly PYT's breaks today guys. So definitely check out what we got in the shop Can check out the break schedule to see what we got going today. There's a Oscar Coloss refractor rookie There's a rookie's Pascatino and headliners of Soto. Yeah, that might be the most telling thing Pete if there's none on eBay It was fine. It's been out long enough where you probably find a auto about everybody who's in the set So they might have a they might have not put the redemption in or whatever if he is in the checklist That is headlanders Devers if he's not as a auto on the checklist Then he's might not just have an auto But if he is on the checklist that might have been the case they forgot to put a redemption in or something along those lines refractor Turner Ronald Lacuna Yeah, I don't know. I don't know for a fact at all I hadn't heard anything There's a chef G there to number the 300 light blue Yankees Both nailer Joey Vado Alrighty guys two boxes left And this was a box case number 36 PYT number 37 up right after I believe there are two left now Yeah, just Marlins and Brewers left in the next one guys He's on the checklist while who's interesting interesting So that's most likely what happened then was he was a redemption that just got misplaced or something along those lines it does seem weird if there's none on eBay and We haven't seen any I do feel like maybe that It's not in there Can't confirm that though It's a Freddy Freeman rivalries Dodgers and rookie autos Michael Taglia. Let's go into the Rockies there rookie auto not number Freddy Freeman God rookie refractor DL Hall Orioles. I feel like DL Hall was in like 2021 tops Chrome Maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong but There's a world's finest there Salvi Perez Who's a Nami wall the Chuck? Yeah, probably him probably him Another Orioles pitcher There's a headliners Yellich Josh young he's like John mean Yeah, maybe I'm right. Oh, no, it's Keegan Aiken. I pulled her a super fracter auto.  There we go That's probably it then Me my lefties 99 we got green refractor auto of clay home see Yankees green weight Oh goodness, I did a thumbnail of lefties the other day. Oh, yeah, I was like Manu I don't remember what else I had on there. Manu was the main one There's a Michael Taglia to 99 rookie not a lot of a Lot of Rockies here Spencer steer refractor rookie headliners mow Rivera Corbin Carol rookie Francisco refractor Cattel Marte Austin Riley God blue is Altuve number to 150 Astros and purple is the 250 Jazz Chisholm Marlins say headliners of Vlad Michael Harris Oh Me sub a oh they like oh man me one Thank you what to grab in the Marlins just one left guys just one left Just brewers Just a brewer's left in the next one looking for um Garrett Mitchell color I don't believe he has autos. They got Ethan small autos in there The Corbin Burns is in there as well 2999 on the brewers next one full case That's the last spot in the next one guys now walkie Let's go So like the Packers of the cheese heads are brewers like the barley heads The hops heads beer heads that's good question the cheese heads and the beer heads Not a bad not a bad combo beer cheese cheese beer cheese, dude. That's got to be one Your cheese is so awkward. It's 250. We've got a mookie Dodgers and this one is the Kinso Corey short Print their rival Reese's mark McGuire. That's a sick looking one there You got to get the you got to get the other rival of this same set That'd be sick. I think it's the Cubs. I get Sammy is his uh his opposite Sick one there on these short print cardinals rival Reese big Mac It's a sweet looking one there man Wander a liberator to 175 aqua shimmer Judgy machado All right, you guys sold out on the last one Sold out on the last one appreciate whoever grabbed that Do not see it so I appreciate you though Let's keep it going here last box of this one guys. We'll get going on a number of 37 next We shate y'all helping us sell out There's a Christopher Merrell refractive rookie your Donna Cabrera Got blue blue rookie is gonna be Oscar Coloss white socks number 2150 Seya Acunia. Yeah, P. I actually um Ruchman rookie there. There's a headliners of Beltray. I actually spent a whole summer in Wisconsin I was up in right near Green Bay Appleton area, but we went down to Milwaukee a couple times Chicago It's all kind of right around there. It is a beautiful area man Lake, Michigan is very nice Headliners there Nolan Ryan Very nice. I went up north as well. We went to Superior, Wisconsin. They got let's like right on Lake Superior Really cool, uh, really cool area. It's a refractor Miguel Cabrera Bregman, it's like a lava Auto is Oswell, Paraza nice one there Yankees on the refractor rookie auto Not numbered and a lava is gonna be Joey Vado number 2100 Bobby Witt Let's do a law who's I think you do it estuary Ruiz rookie Bernie the brewer Was a Benny, I don't know. I think it's Bernie. I don't know. I remember that one reporter got hurt sliding Got orange wave auto Come on Gunner Henderson rookie It is Ryan Mountcastle on the orange wave auto nice little color match their Orioles 25 out of 25 on the Mountie Go Huskies Headliners show hate to close it out Sayang Shane bobechette Alrighty guys, that'll do it for finest a box case number 36 do a quick auto recap here We had autograph gold finest moments. That's Miguel Cabrera Tigers Had Paraza refractor rookie auto Tuglia Sosa Massey Michael Grove Dodgers Oscar Gonzalez Ruiz waters and a ronda bass autos Blue to 150 we had Oscar Gonzalez and Oscar Gonzalez We had Nick Prado to 150 green 99 clay Holmes rookie Bubba Thompson We had gold rookie Hunter Brown number to 50 and we had Mountcastle number to 25 for the Orioles All right, you guys that'll do it for finest a box case number 36. We'll get number 37 going here in about five minutes Appreciate you guys


Hi everyone, Joe for Jaspy's casebreaks.com, coming at you with 2020 Topps Chrome Baseball Blaster Box Edition, Random Team Number 6, which we discount a little bit and helps fill up Bowman Chrome Choice Number 8, which is coming up right after this. At the end of the break, we're going to re-randomize your names and all these, however many that is, in fact we'll just go over here, you'll get teams in choice if you're in one through eleven. And then the first three losers, I guess, the first three non-winners of teams will get $50 of break credit each to Jaspy's casebreaks.com. So a little consolation prize if you miss out on teams. Which is not too bad, not too shabby at all. As always, let's do the break first. Let's roll it, let's randomize it five into two seven times for each list. Bryce, the schedule is in the chat. One, two, three, four, five, six, and seventh and final time. After seven times, we got Brian down to Robert. Seven times for the teams, two. And seventh and final time. After seven, we got the Cardinals down to the Diamondbacks. That's three. I think Dave's looks fine. He's feeling it too. He's feeling himself. He did the brow thing. All right, he did all that. All right, here's the first half of the list right here. There's the second half of the list right here. All right, no trade windows. Let's just sort by team. Let's print. Let's rip. And let's get that choice going. There you go, skull. Yeah. Maybe next Oh, interesting. Rex saying, speaking of last saw someone posted up on a Bowman Chrome Facebook page. Now, Walmart's now starting to sell all cards behind customer the customer service desk. That's wild. I guess I mean, that's good. They get they're getting it starting to crack down on like the amount of people are getting perhaps the maybe eliminate some of the the shadiness that sometimes happens when the distributor, the independent third party distributors start selling cards directly to people and all that. Maybe they'll work on that too. Timberwolves could be good next year, skull. They'll have a pick. They'll have still a car on the town. D'Angelo Russell is pretty good. You know, second year, Jared Colver could be interesting. A couple young guys already on there and the number one pick. So maybe maybe some new ownership, bring some fresh, fresh money, fresh blood into the organization could be good. All right. And your CPS right here is Glaver Day, Mike Yosemski, Miles Mikolas and Eddie Rosario. That's a good shot of very Eddie Rosario sliding into base right there. There you go. There's Blaster six. And now let's see who's going to win those teams. Robert down to Shay and everybody in between has a shot at all of that. So name on top. We don't we don't randomize the this list right here. We'll only randomize your names and then we'll match you up with something. Good luck. Let's roll it. Let's randomize. Rerandomize that list eight times two and a six. One, two, three, four, five. I said eight, right? Six, seven and eighth and final time two and a six make eight. All right. After eight, congrats to this top group right here. Let's just copy and just slap your names around there. See what happens. All right. There you go. Congrats to these folks. Apologies to the rest. We'll get them next time, but congrats right here. Debra with the twins. We'll put a little rooftop next here next to all of these names here so you know you won this in this Blaster break. Debra with the twins, Mike with the Phillies, Ryan with the Angels, John with the DBACs, Ryan D with the Rockies, Brian with the Tiger Steve with the Marlins, Raymond with the Orioles, John McCall with the Cubs, Shay with the Pirates, Mike with the Nationals and hey, apologies to you. No teams in that next break, but Stephen Kay, 50 bucks of break credit going your way. Shay, you also have 50 bucks in there and with $50 of break credit to jazbyksprakes.com. I'm Joe. I'll see you next time for the next one. Bye bye.


Great panel that is called Responsible Offensive Machine Learning and here we have Bodicea, Philar, and Straith, and we have our Delta Zero moderating. So take it away. All right, let's just really quick have a time for the panelists to introduce themselves to start. What are you working on today and what path did you take to get there? So hi everyone, I'm Straith. Primarily what I work on is using robots to social engineer people. So physical robots and you know getting people to do things they would not otherwise do or say things that would not otherwise do and My path here has been really weird started in business and then went through to project management and then to IT help desk and then University where I did theoretical computer science and robotics and now I'm in a cryptography security and privacy lab None of those words are AI or machine learning But I've kind of done a little bit along the way and obviously it does feed into the robot social engineering Hi, I'm Bobby Philar data scientist at Endgame My primary responsibility there is building malware classification models Employing NLP to try to help security analysts do their job faster easier My path here Equally kind of bizarre International relations background. I wanted to write about North Korea nuclear weapons Now I'm on stage talking about offensive AI Yeah, so I jumped from kind of the policy side of the house to geospatial analytics Then into information security and then into information security data science So I'm Sarah Turp. I'm a data scientist. I work for a very large ad tech company So my day job I'm going through very fast very very large amounts of data Trying to get more people to look at videos to the ends of videos which balls I held out of me sometimes so as a hobby I Track misinformation very large-scale bots troll activity and work out counters to that and I got there God, I couldn't be a kid. I couldn't decide whether to do psychology or computing and then discovered AI First job I refused to go to university So I went straight to a graduate dub designing sonar systems and intelligent torpedoes got one of the very first AI degrees in the world we're talking 30 something years ago and Just no unmanned vehicles intelligent systems Just fun stuff. It looks like fun. I do it Awesome, so starting right into things during the past week at black hat def con and b-sides We've seen quite a number of examples of like offensive ML adversarial examples things like that What concerns you the most in the whole ML AI info sec intersection? The biggest thing that concerns me is probably the marketing of AI in ML So I'll make sure to apologize to our marketing department, but in in reality It is it's often positioned as like a silver bullet that can solve or catch anything that it can reduce all of your data and produce no false positives and that's sort of Kind of definition is dangerous because then people start to believe it and spend a lot of Resources both people and money on things that don't solve everything Well, can we talk about the training data sets that are used for all these companies that are adding in AI and machine learning? Like my favorite thing has been walking around vendor areas and saying hey How do you train your systems? Like how do you feel about that sort of stuff too? Oh, boy? I've got a long story about that one I'm sorry human inputs very bad bias So my biggest worry is that we're getting a lot better at replicating the appearance of being human and Yeah, I know it's all likes of Terminator that AI type stuff, but I I build this crap and There is a danger of Not really people not being ready and not knowing how to work with Bots that aren't necessarily labeled. This is called autonomy theory We've had it a lot of it in some of the work on a man vehicles for years, but it's really hitting at scale now And so that brings up something else is the thing that worries me the most is people constantly think of AI and they jump Right to being a Terminator, right is once you put an AI in a body It's very very different and to me what like seeing what everybody's doing in AI machine learning The biggest threat is like the social and cultural impact not what happens after you put it into a body Yet, which is why I'm working on the robot social engineering But the idea that AI and machine learning is already affecting us now And I don't think people understand how much it's affecting us because they haven't physically seen it So it worries me that people are waiting too much for the physical impacts before they see the cultural and social Actually on that same note, what are the impacts of AI ML and how do we actually keep them ethical and fair? so I think the The idea of keeping things ethical and fair Is certainly a difficult one. I believe it was you who had a presentation last year on Fishing using targeting fishing using AI and ML where you mine publicly available information to create a kind of curated Target set and exploit individuals to gain access and and kind of take advantage Ethical fair you're only as good as your inputs. I am seeing so many Groups using human generated internet generated inputs, which are by themselves usually likes come on Let's talk sexist racist and all of the other bats.  Yeah, so what are the impacts of AI and ML and how do we keep them ethical and fair? Oh, yeah, that question So what worries me is what we count as ethical and fair Understanding what is fair for one person is not fair for another person it is not necessarily ethical for another person and it really worries me what we are doing in North America or even in Certain subgroups and how specific the AI and machine learning is getting for one Task, but then you try and put that machine learning anywhere else and it could actually harm people or hurt them So I'm definitely worried about the con contextualization of these tools Let's kind of talk about definition of ethics. So I've worked a lot on data ethics So what it means to be ethical when you're using data about people even before you start machine learning on top and The framing that I use that seems to stick most is of ethics as a risk problem So ethics is all about there is a risk to people So you have a population you have a risk of something you have a probability of that risk and Then you can start talking about relative risks and relative problems relative populations without that you're just waving your hands in the air and say Yeah, and piling on to the fair argument that I believe strength was making Explainability is certainly something that at least us in the infosec group Strives to do because black box can be extremely dangerous when you are producing some sort of output based off of math and stats that a human being then makes a decision on that could have actual dollar ramifications So when you look at things from through that lens, you have to be much more careful Yeah, so money is one factor, but there are so many other factors Especially when we start looking at some of the tools we are making and and how they impact for example, even lgbt Q plus plus groups and how their model is different even though they might be in the same house as somebody else that the Tools might be working for so that worries me too is that even when you have a contextualized in one specific spot Just some of these personal experiences can change things so much and then it's not even a deliberate Offensive machine learning. It's accidental or like non-conscious, which is almost worse to me Very cool. So on the next top So obviously we're moving towards the future like ML AI robots are becoming more widespread How will different teams a red teams blue teams or even other fields need to adjust for the future? So, yeah, I think the red team blue team conversation is probably something that folks in here are Interested in as well I think putting together solid red and blue teams is pretty much the same way you put together a solid basketball team everybody kind of has a role and responsibility and the advent of ML backed platforms particularly in the security space Means that you will likely need to have a resident expert on AI and how to exploit that on the red side and on the blue Side when you're paying vendors Hundreds of thousands of dollars for ML backed security You're gonna need to understand the underlying blind spots and problem areas and how to debug these machine learning models. I Mean hell when we say ML and most of the stuff out there. It's like, hey, we've got a table. We've got some labels Let's go like put the thing together. So this is not exactly complicated yet. What was the question again? How will other teams like red team blue team? So I've been through quite a few industries that we've added data science and ML into one my job used to be a consultant going in and changing organizations and What you see is changes in Not just the technologies, but you're talking about the speed you can do things the scale you can do things with The types of data you can start using it's like log files are boring as hell but when you get enough of them together it gets interesting and There's always this sense of transformations of people process technology culture all of those change The skills people have changed because they have to be able to do to to understand The vulnerabilities within their own algorithms. They have to understand how to attack similar things and Okay, I can see straight itching to get the microphone. I'll stop for the moment. You can get red well, the other interesting thing with this too is When we're looking at red teams and blue teams, we're usually talking about corporations and large groups and communities, right? but a lot of stuff you've talked about in the past few days if anybody's had a chance to see is social bots Especially on platforms like Twitter and Facebook and how they're getting people Individually and how they're getting like the individuals. So how do you read and blue team for yourself too? Right and a lot of it comes down to trying to develop communities around, you know blue team and community to protect your friends and family and and Countries to like what can we all be doing individually to be like hey stop that? So this is something to think about too is is with how the social bots are being integrated into our lives We each need to start taking a role in this and not just leaving it to the companies Not just leaving it to the platforms but also judging for yourself who is a bot who is not a bot and Going through and seeing whether you can help parse that out for other people and prevent it Which is why this is now going back to Sarah Sorry, one of things I want to talk about is subtlety So one of the things that if you're starting to use machine learning you're starting to use AI instead of that humans Pitting and buttons is you can do much more interesting complex under the radar attacks So at the moment the botnets that I've been tracking have been pretty fucking dumb So I swear every talk I'm done So they've been pretty dumb. It's like hey, let's just like retreat this thing They're pretty easy to find but once you can start adapting so you can take naturalize in you can generate out Once you can start randomly creating Patterns of behavior that are more human like They're the more random it makes my job as a hunter a lot harder and it's that Arms war that I'm expecting over the next year between the bot makers and the bot finders Using machine learning on either side and starting to race up up that chain So it's gonna get interesting and yes that hits individuals as well as groups as well as countries as well as it The surface is enormous No, I guess my question to you then would be when you look at things and Ariel mentioned this as well with deep fakes and there was the The Jordan Peele Barack Obama sort of fusion or my favorite Nick Cage Donald Trump, which was fantastic How do we Not quite that good yet, but What steps would you recommend to kind of the layperson to educate and arm themselves because I think for a lot People here who are are very well guarded in the information security space and know how to handle themselves at places like DEF CON or in day-to-day Interactions when you remove yourself into a more political or geopolitical spectrum And open yourself up to these Alternate media streams and things like that. There's that's kind of a lot to expect of people to to understand So this is something I touch on a lot with the robot social engineering is because most of it is one-on-one Because it's a physical robot and a physical human in a space interacting with with each other socially So talking, you know body posturing is huge with robots like being able to use body language That's primarily the advantage of physical embodiment from AI over versus when it's on the web and For that there's not a lot you can do like I've been trying to write this defenses chapter in my thesis and it's just like Magical like awareness will solve everything because there's just not a lot. Otherwise that you can do I've been doing some experiments on whether people can tell the difference between when a robot is acting on its own And what is being controlled by a human and the answer is no like so far There's been no distinction between the two people can't tell me when hey that robot. It's acting weird They think it's a bug before they think it's another human Or else they don't even think it's a bug. They're like, oh, that's a feature So this is a thing too is is depending on how the AI is presented People usually can't tell the difference as soon as it's in a body because they prescribe so much more Like life likeness to the robots So this is something specifically from my area that concerns me about AI and machine learning is people don't know The difference between that and real Yeah, I mean really I mean we we look on two different axes So this is comes from my old school intelligence training. It's like you always look at the content and the source so the Content of something isn't enough anymore. You need to know the context around it now Where is it come from? What does this trust framework come within and there are media literacy trainings on How to start spotting things but no things like deep fakes. I mean I I've had a little play I Am good at image processing and I've I've reused some old mind-finding Software stuff and it's not easy. It's not easy to spot I mean you end up then doing common sense you look at things like snopes but If you're trying to protect that group of humans and those humans that where where is the activity attack surface generally That you just got to go all the way back the supply chain and stop this stuff before it gets to the humans Because they're the they are really a very last resort Yeah, actually, that's really intriguing just generally because like I know in my own research It's really hard to sort of spot like, you know spearfishing or audio Like generated. I'd love to hear more just on the idea of like What happens if it's impossible to actually detect this stuff? Like I know your research and you know stopping it from the source. Can you just expand a bit like? Oh This is probably not the place I would record it Yeah, there was there's a certain building in St. Petersburg if it accidentally disappeared life would get an awful lot easier for me, but That's part of the change. So you've got the people who are generating the people who? Pushing out you have bought what mean it bought application You have the people at the end to a then applicant applying on top So it literally is a chain of information that you need to at every point Find places to stop it find ways to stop it and at the end with the people I mean you can do like domain squatting and typo squatting and Diversions, so there's a whole pile of and that's an as an entire different talk onwards And this is something you and I have discussed like outside But the idea of whether we want to be able to use that metadata to find bots like we also want Anonymity for people we want like there are some cases where you know having that metadata it can harm people So if we start stripping all that out in an effort to protect individuals and have a more like Free internet or however you want to think about what information we release while we're doing things You use a lot of that to find bots So once like if that is gone and if we have a more anonymous internet like How are you gonna be able to tell between people and bots and where does that start affecting our culture more than it is already to right? Yeah, and bringing this back to kind of the infosec problem and and for me malware classification That's where the onus falls on on folks in the crowd fellow data scientists Where you have to participate in this sort of research adversarial machine learning as you could tell by the track list over the past two days pretty heavy on that side and The reason why it's so powerful is not because it's cool to make stickers to trick a machine into thinking you're a toaster It's about identifying your models blind spots and once you can identify those blind spots You can attempt to patch them and by patching them you help make that platform more secure and and hopefully in theory Organizations people what have you more secure? Well, there's also the human blind spots one of the beautiful things about doing machine learning is you start learning where the people have missed things It's kind of cool Awesome, so on that same note actually let's let's move things more to the responsibilities side For people creating, you know AI ML systems. What responsibilities do they have when creating those systems? Whether they're blue team red team or anyone? Yeah, I'll take first crack here So for me personally, it's a lot of eliminating things So eliminating false positives to try to engender like trust and make people believe that the Answer coming out of these systems is is fair and trustworthy Trying to reduce kind of the black box feel of it explainable AI as I said earlier is is a huge thing the majority of the industry Right now uses tree-based classifiers, which should Insure at least some sort of explainability Based off the features they're using and and things like that and then the last thing I believe Straight harped on which is eliminating bias in in your training data. So for me Bias isn't necessarily Gender or anything like that, but it could be nationality based language packs and software a lot of Now where it comes from Eastern Europe So we don't want to create models that the first time it sees anything from Eastern Europe That is like a browser or a plug-in that it immediately labels it bad just because so much of our training data is Oh, if Russia, that's definitely bad. So That's that's not an ideal thing and that can lead to a lot of Problems both within International organizations and just developers trying to do right by themselves to create software And we're back to risk equations. So you're actually talking about false positive positives Actually, I've worked with a bunch of Nigerian tech people as well. It's the same problem of like nobody will answer them Hello Legos So you've got to think about what the inherent harm is in your false positives and your false negatives and Which way you should shift to keep the arm down So that's like if I mean in terms of bots quite we quite often catch real human beings Who are just enough on the borderline that they that the List put out by Congress had a bunch of human beings in it Their lives can get completely screwed by that But the other way if you don't catch a major bought that's causing a lot of harm or a major incursion Then you screwed that way. So it's like who were the harms to What are the what are the? Risks what is the cost and not just in money, but the cost in general of doing this or not doing this of those parameters you're using Let's actually move it like back to robots actually if I'm designing a robot Do I have any sort of responsibilities or anything in that sense? Oh, sorry Let's move it back to like for example robots If if I'm designing a robot, are there any responsibilities that I should have or should follow in order to you know, I Don't know try to not deceive people or anything So there's some interesting things with robots Most of it is not AI or machine learning related but More in how the robot is perceived by people So some of the things that really bother me are robots that are heavily gendered and put into gender specific roles So we have a lot of female robots that are servants waitresses and all all of that sort of thing That bothers me because then you have the male robots which are being trained as managers are being trained to Be in positions of authority, but they have huge biceps. They're built like football players They have like they have an like huge crutch area. It's like it's a robot Could we not? Or it's like why does the waitress robot need huge tits?  So it's like why is this happening? So when you start doing that and you throw AI in it, you also get a bunch of really interesting Interesting quirks in how people perceive what the robot is doing So if the robot does not act like the gender that it's perceived as people also treat it differently, which is kind of neat They get really confused about what role the robot has Which needs more research, but so far the papers are just really neat The other thing too is how we do voices with AI or what we name our AI assistants Siri Like female name again kind of like another thing that why isn't it called like Jeff? I'd love an AI called Jeff be like Jeff. Can you check my calendar for me today? Although? I'm sorry if anybody hears name Jeff But this is the thing is like, you know, I love being able to change the voice on my assistant as well But like how many people change it and stick with a male voice or stick with a neutral voice, right? They're usually female as well. Like if you go to the computer history museum in Mountain View There's Watson in the room male voice But then the AI that controls the lights is a female voice and it's like why wasn't it the same? Why wasn't it, you know, what other options could happen and how does that affect people? But then I use that for social engineering and messing with people more because when they're like Oh, it's such a cute robot.  I was looking for anomalous Behaviors of humans or maybe humans so I had all the logs across all our systems and I started finding stuff out about my team that maybe I didn't want to know There were specific members of my team doing some really interesting stuff But then you could find out through the you know just going through the activity they had It's like I know who's awake when I know there's some interesting curves going on there I know some interesting correlation. Oh, look, I can go use some open data to go find some more about them It was getting a little bit creepy and some of it is like how far do you go to protect your system? and in this case it was like I had to track my own team to be able to spot anomalous anomalies and other parts of the Team and to spot whether any of my team's access is changed to a point where I had to worry about them No super years. You don't want them going work Yeah, I mean if anybody here works on insider threat problems, you'll know that yeah somebody shaking their head It's incredibly creepy how insider threat programs work because they need to know every single thing When you log on when you log off when you use the restroom What do you print when are you on Gmail and what do you get to that sort of level it creates? I think an interesting moral dilemma about security versus privacy Which is something that that both fellow panelists I think is have harped on in multiple talks Cool also, let's let's transition a bit to Responsible disclosure So there's a lot of different cultures surrounding responsible disclosure There's like the academic IRB model. There's the you know, sort of hacker just tweeted out model How what what do you what does responsible disclosure or what what? Responsibilities do you have when you're doing a pen test in any of your fields? What should that look like? So I've been going through IRBs the past month They don't like me Because I fight back on a lot of these things and what is actually ethical like an ethics review board is not the like end-all be-all of ethics For example, the one I was dealing with is like you have to keep your raw data for seven years on the university servers And and they and I was like why and they said oh just in case Like no the With science the best way to have reproducible science is to release your data set But you want to take care of your participants so you anonymize it the best you can you strip out as much data as you can And leave the bits that you need to get the stats that you got so other people could get the same thing if they took That data and your paper they should be able to get the same results easily and I said yeah Like I'm gonna as soon as the raw data has been shifted over and I've anonymized it I'm gonna delete it. It'll be gone and then they're like no and fighting it And so this is an interesting thing because when we're talking about how much that data reveals And how much you can get out of it if you haven't anonymized it and it's sitting there on a server And like honestly most people aren't there for seven years That would be a master's and a PhD in Kenna and maybe some undergrad that's a very long time Who's maintaining that who's actually gonna take it down who's actually making sure the data is safe? And so like even then the ethics boards are like, well, I don't know you have to you have to take care of that And it's like It's seven years who's gonna remember that later on except for maybe a Google calendar update This is hey delete data. It's like what data what did I do? Like this is a problem and also with the ethics boards, they are not usually geared towards specific fields And ethics board covers everything in the university So they might be Biologists that might be sociologists that might be English professors and then maybe you'll have a computer scientist Like they're not necessarily ready for AI or machine learning ethics applications Or even going through the methodology that's used, right? So this is another problem.  Where was the ethics review board? It got ethics clearance apparently. So, you know, this is an issue That was all about hats and face here Well, and then this is the thing is there is a company people can ask me about after this outside But this is what they do is they collect people's faces at Public places and they say oh, yeah It's for glasses and facial hair and hats and to see what the latest trends are so they can sell it to companies To see like what products are selling the best But then they were talking about how at lunchtime they go through the facial hair pitchers to make fun of people Like that's not great ethics Yeah, this can be an issue if you're doing something that's so new that nobody's really kind of I mean you talk to infasect people. They know that misinformation is an infasect problem. They know that it's a massive hack on people's brains and communities But there's no real place to put it. It's like we find stuff We find stuff all the time and all we can do is like a very quiet word with somebody in the right sort of place so how do you tell people that a Piece of their system that they don't even think of as a piece of system is broken and vulnerable and That they're completely screwing up protecting it on the other side Thank you anonymous for releasing a huge pile of names of people who connected to QAnon, but They're not the people we've seen so I mean you've seen everything from us like sometimes we keep stuff because we don't know where to put it and we don't Want to do harm by putting it out to people just like chucking stuff out because hey It's hard. It's hard for us and you're Yeah It's Quite the label but no, I think with responsible disclosure The thing that most interests me is we as a community have finally gotten really good I think reasonably good at responsible disclosure for the vulnerability Research community has anybody here participated in like bug bounties or anything like that do vulnerability research Yeah, a few people we have guidelines and boards and clearing houses and for the most part proper steps to take to go and publish a Vulnerability for a network system or a piece of software for AI backed security platforms that doesn't exist at all Yet we kind of open up These platforms to public view in places like virus total where you can test You know your malware against a variety of antiviruses and then if you happen to pass one And you feel like vendor shaming or or anything like that or gaining publicity through tweeting That's that's an option on the table. There's no real Ethics or guidelines attached to that and that is probably an opportunity for The adversarial research community to to learn from the vulnerability research community and attempt to establish these sort of norms and guidelines And this is sometimes where academia does come in Because we aren't beholden to a company. We don't have like in Canada specifically We don't have to worry about funding So you basically have a general grant that covers like privacy and security and you can do whatever you want under it Essentially, so this is a good opportunity sometimes to work with academics who have more protections Who can publish this stuff out underneath the protection of a university and have the funding to do it Whereas, you know, a company might be like no, you're under us. We own your IP You can't do that or maybe you're worried as a community group like whether you will personally be targeted Of course academics also do have that worried that we will be personally targeted But sometimes the universe can help out with that or we can publish under the university generally and not put out specific names So this is where it definitely start talking to academics as well And we could bridge things a bit more to maybe help solve some of this problem I mean, especially if you're a lone hacker or a lone few hackers It can be pretty scary out there. You have It's an avatar serial context. It's a seriously adversarial context and the risk is high So, can you think of any other like ethical, you know, just Responsibilities or decisions or boundaries that you know exist in this space. I Know we kind of already covered it. So yeah, I mean I think what we're talking about and what folks like Sven and Ariel and a few others who have gone over the the applied adversarial approach Doing this and testing Vendor-based AI platforms is is a murky area because you are Inherently do making this up or do something different and that's where I drew kind of the the comparison to the vulnerability Research community, which is very much the same idea and and that's kind of that's kind of where I was going at least with my Do we partner with academia? Do we partner with impartial third parties or NGOs in an attempt to create some sort of Clearing house in order to generate or establish these these norms Yeah, I mean, it's like your data was broken your access is broken and your algorithm is broken. It's it's Who the hell do yeah Awesome, so the final question before we actually turn it over to audience and have audience ask some questions How would you recommend someone get into the field or these research areas? Yeah, I mean a lot of people are doing it right now going to things like AI village Sarah leads an excellent conference that will be in Washington, DC I don't lead it. I'm just the program chair But you should go it's called camless conference on this applied machine learning and information security and we're looking at both Offensive so attacking with machine learning. We're looking at defensive defending machine learning And we're looking at attacking the algorithms of cells So things covered AI village also ML sec. We have a little problem with the website's address But if you look at ML sec as a Twitter, you should be able to find the community Join the slack channels join the long conversations we have You covered it. Oh, I was the other thing would be just talk to people in the in the room Follow follow folks on Twitter if you don't have an account. Don't you don't need to tweet Just follow people it's such an excellent way to learn about what everybody in Academia and industry is working on I Completely forgot I've got a GitHub repo with listing to other people's repos of interesting things to read plus people to follow


On July 16, 1969, astronauts Neil Armstrong, Edwin Aldrin, and Michael Collins boarded the Apollo 11 command module and launched from Cape Canaveral, Florida, on a mission to be the first men to land on the moon. Their successful landing on July 20 was watched on televisions around the world. Armstrong's first words after setting foot on the moon have become a part of history. While on the lunar surface, Armstrong and Aldrin collected samples of the moon to be analyzed when they returned safely to Earth. They spent a total of 21 hours on the moon before rejoining Collins orbiting overhead. They returned to Earth as heroes on July 24, forever immortalized by their actions. The successful lunar landing was the pinnacle moment of the space race between the United States and the Soviet Union.


Eric. Eric from show real. Hey, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Hi, Eric Vellante. Good to meet you. Pleasure, man. Okay, Eric Jackson with show real international. You guys, NABs, you're like home here, right? That's it.  I was sleeping all night. We tell about rest. So tell us about show real real quick and then we're going to go into some of the dynamics around the marketplace. Obviously, you know, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting some production shop these days that claims they do this, that and the other thing. So let's go into what you guys are doing and then we'll talk about the industry landscape. Sure. So show real is a full service production company. We're located in the heart of Hollywood. We've been there a very long time. We started in commercials and today we're doing a lot of corporate work and more and more every day we're doing content creation. So having the tools to help us excel on the field is really wonderful. When I started everything was proprietary. You had to have big money to compete and today we're competing with the biggest production and post companies out there. So we were talking last night about the success of like things like Hunger Games and the big shop. Well, they needed that when Lionsgate did.  So at the other end of the market, you have a lot of specialty. Can you talk about the dynamics and the landscape? And you guys, the big shops do still work with a lot of these other shops. So how does all that play out? What's the dynamics and is it working? Well, it's our marketplace is a little different. We're not doing Hunger Games although who knows someday but our specialty, like I said, is corporate video. And what we find in the corporate arena is there is a void that they want to produce great work for the most part. They don't always have the budget.  We used to shoot a 30-second commercial for $200,000. So we've buttoned up the shop. We work a lot harder, fewer people, but really what we do is we rely on technology along with our skills to be able to produce great products for our clients. We have basically two choices for our clients. The first is you have X amount of money, that's what you're going to get and that's not the way we operate. So leaning on our talents and the tools, we're able to deliver far superior products than the budget. So I think the days of really bad corporate video are, they're definitely diminishing because there's a lot of technology and a lot of talent out there. Gosh, so how about the tech? Talked a little bit more about the technology behind it. What are some of the cool things that might resonate with the audience? Cameras, cameras are key. You know, the technology, the DSLR revolution really kind of opened the door for stunning images and we shoot anything from DSLRs to, you know, I'm a lover of high-speed photography so we just shot some epic stuff and it's beautiful. The biggest, I think, game changer for us is the post-production workflow and the speed of processors these days, computers, the tools, the plug-ins and everything that we put into play, it's so valuable. For me, the biggest technology that we've been relying on lately is the mobile platform and it's really just a great advantage to be able to be in the field, see your project come to life and make necessary adjustments based on being able to see things instantly. So mobile is part of your normal workflow? It absolutely is now. And that's not just some kind of cool demo, you're actually using mobile as part of the flow? Absolutely. Talk about that a little bit. Well, when I first started using mobile technology, it was really so after the shoot, I can go home and get something done so I can sleep at night. Make sure we had it in the can so it was a little bit of an insurance factor but more and more today, there are tools that I use in the field. One of the examples is we just finished a project for Levi Strauss and Company and we were pinning graphics to work them into the scene and we put one in a frame and we shot in this beautiful house and there's this big picture window. We wanted the graphic right in there so we framed it up and we had a lot of room on the right so the editor put it in the frame. Well, we were able to on set, pin it and we looked at it and we decided we wanted the graphic to be bigger so we needed to adjust our framing and that took just a matter of minutes to reshoot it, spit it out of the computer like that and away we go on to the next shot. It's an insurance policy for me and it makes our producer happy because we can do it fast so she's happy. And it lowers your cost too.  Time to shoot, post-production, edit. You got it. You got it.  It's all about getting it done, getting it done right but most importantly staying on schedule. Got it. What are the cool things you're working on? You mentioned Levi Strauss. What are the cool projects? Can you share the folks out there that have that, you know, the photography which is really about engaging the audiences. You know, the corporate guys don't necessarily have the skills in the house as well to do that but that's the key right now in this world is engaging, having something that's so compelling and elegant and beautiful but yet does the job and gets messages across. What are some cool things? Yeah, I can't talk about the specific projects but some of the types of projects we're doing are some pretty heavy-duty investor-relation videos. So a couple big Fortune 500 companies going to Wall Street and in doing so they really have to present this gold image this really solid image. So, you know, nothing schlocky. It's got to look like a 30-second commercial but it's got to be three minutes of beautiful photography, it's a sync message. Great sound. Yeah, great, great everything. So yeah, we'll go in and we'll look into the heart and soul of the employees and the corporation but more importantly we're delivering broadcast quality. Things they would see, you know, not Channel 800 but Prime Time Television and I think if you do anything less for the audience you've lost them. They're just used to seeing. Such great work out there. So when you're trying to deliver a message you have to engage them. You have to engage them. What's your advice of folks out there? Obviously, there's a lot of new... I wouldn't call them Indy but you can call them Indy. I'm going to call them Indy and individuals, consumers are out there shooting great stuff with iPhones. We saw some demos last night with, you know, the skateboarders. We're going to see some around from here in the set here. Not everyone's a guru of photography and, you know, was the shaky camera. Now I can have a 7D and I could go out and do some amazing photography. Now this video I can shoot pretty compelling stuff but it's not just shooting, right? Yeah. So take us some advice from the shooting piece and then some workflow kind of optimizations. Well, everything we do, there's a reason. We're not just, you know, today I feel like being shaky and tomorrow I'm going to be on a techno crane. Everything plays into the message. So it's really important to understand what that message is and the feel you're trying to convey and play into that. The Levi Strauss project was particularly challenging in that regard because it represented three brands. Levi's, Dockers and Denizen. So with each one of those we shot it different. So a lot of Levi's stuff was shaky. The Dockers was very smooth and fluid. So I think know the tools, understand how to use them. Don't get stuck in one kind of vision and pigeonhole that way and apply the appropriate creative to the project. For the corporations out there that haven't worked with a level of firm like you guys, what would you tell them to look for as kind of table stakes of minimums that they have to see when they talk to potential suppliers in this area of the studios? Oh, that's a good question. You don't have to just use it. No, no, I mean, because you know, it's confusing. They send RFP and then, you know, projects got to get done but there are minimum table stakes that have to be addressed now that consumers expect. I've seen RFPs written so many different ways from we need a lighting package and that's it. How do you bid we need a lighting package? So I think it's really important that corporations don't look at it like they're buying pencils. It's not a pencil. Really understand what you're looking to do, how somebody creatively is going to bring that to life. And most importantly, look at their history. Look at their work. What you see is what you're going to get and make sure they're not five-second clips of montage put together. You know, let's see full projects. Let's talk to clients. Really do your due diligence in hiring a production company and you know, it'll work out for you. The classic ask for references and look at some work. My other question for you is more of a personal note. Obviously you're here with your creative and also experience in doing the business on the side of the studio. What is your view of NAB here? The show, I mean, what's your vibe? You see a theme popping out. I've seen a lot of content, production, content type stuff. What's your take on NAB this year so far? Well, for me, it's always the big toys. I'm just fascinated by the big toys. So I haven't had a chance to walk the floor. I'm going to do that right after this. But yeah, I'm definitely going over to some of the red. I want to see the Lexa. I'm a camera guy. The post tools I'm pretty knowledgeable about already. So play with those on a daily basis. So where do you see that technology going over the next four or five years? Wow, that's a good question. I think it's just going to open up more creative possibilities. And I think as more technology, affordable technology is available and tools for more of the independent guy, which is a little more in line where we are, not being a huge studio, I think the talent that's going to surface in the next few years in the projects, we're going to see out there with the channels that are available to see it on. The cream is going to rise to the top and the work is going to be amazing. And I really look forward to seeing that. It's all about taking that high-end technology, bringing it down to a price point that makes sense for you and then bringing that to a much, much larger audience. And then eventually it sounds like it goes to the masses. It does. And it's a little bit of a field of dreams. You have to understand what the technology can do and then you can figure out creatively how to apply it. If you don't know what it does, how are you going to dream about it at night? So definitely be informed and that's what I'm doing here. But it sounds like a lot of what you guys do is that creative piece, like you say, you want your clients to talk about full projects, get in there, you kind of embed yourselves, right? Is that what you need from your clients? You want them to give you some access to their best customers and the stories and come in, you interview them, you tease that apart. What's that process like? Well, it's more than just pulling out a camera and lighting it pretty. It's really understanding who they are. Everything we do has to work within their brand. We're working with Fortune 500 companies. So it's not a mom-paw shop. We're not inventing this color or that look. Everything has to work within it. On the same time, we're always trying to keep it engaging. So, you know, corporations sometimes very traditional. So we're pushing them as far as we can. And usually what happens is creatively we'll push them out of the box. And this is from a concept point of view and they'll bring us back a little bit. But what we find is there's a happy meeting point there. And in the end, they're just, it kind of changes the way they look at visual communications. Well, a lot of times you must be hurting cats. There's different agendas. And so when you push them out of the box, they sort of get their attention. Yeah. And then maybe neutralize some of the politics. You know, we haven't shot too many elephants jumping out of helicopters. But we've shot lots of CEOs and figuring out how to integrate a story. And a lot of it is the focus of their employees and their customers. So you kind of take that what is typically not very exciting and figure out how to, you know, really bring that to life. Eric, we were talking prior to the kickoff of the show this morning that, you know, the web created web pages and allowed people to source information in your browse and create Google and search engines and all that good stuff. And, you know, one of the things we shot the arrow forward and said was that media is the new web page worth mobile, social and cloud and enables media and the idea of broadcasting content as that next set of content. But content that's interactive, contents that's measurable, content on multiple devices. So with that being said, I'm sure you agree with that, right? Absolutely. In case you agree with that. So cool. So question is, what do you see for the corporations you deal with? Because Levi Strauss, they're a big brand. We've interviewed Tom Peck. They're CTO on this cube here. Great company, Innovative in San Francisco. But in general, corporations, if the web page became their website as their core vehicle to do business, you can stretch and say, hey, media is their broadcast studio is their new web presence. So if that being said, are you seeing that kind of forward thinking in the client base? Are they building their own studios? Are they really looking at this from a design usability and broadcasting standpoint? Clients, they absolutely are building their own studios because there's nothing proprietary. Everybody can get their hands on it. So if they have enough of a workflow, they certainly will. But I think the type of work that they focus on in-house and their talents is a little different than what we do because our specialty is this very narrow place. And that's where we come in. I think as far as web applications, yeah, video all the way. Who wants to read anymore? A couple bullet points and hit play. You know, it's a YouTube world. So, and a lot of our clients are definitely, definitely taking notice of that. Couple bullet points, hit play. Videos, way to go. Show real Eric Jackson. Thanks for coming on and enjoy your walk around the floor. Thank you.