Hello everyone Good to see everyone. Howdy. Howdy. Hello. Thanks for joining us I Got started a little bit earlier What's up, Kathy? We're gonna be recording for the podcast today, so I'm gonna try to do it. I don't know more professional Since that's what I do Anyways, I hope you guys have noticed the audio podcast is going up now We have stuff that wasn't out before I'm doing all the editing so go easy on me I'm trying I'm learning as I go new intro new Everything so hopefully hopefully You guys are enjoying the audio version now that it's back My little fidget thing is Yeah Fuck I put it I had it. All right Why isn't it letting me view the request there it is What's up, partner? How goes it? All right, so today when we actually start I'm gonna try to have a nice division So I know where to when editing the audio that to clip it in you know, so I try to start with a Beginning and end hopefully my dogs aren't too loud as they eat their dinner. So I guess I'll wait until that's done I know I'm recording for stuff. So yeah, Darby likes to eat very loudly. So All right, so what's been going on new with you other than We have to talk about tonight what you got going on.  Yeah, currently I'm sure it's worse where you live. It's bad. Hey, it's super bad Yeah, because you live in like literal purgatory. Yeah, I'll mine is just partial purgatory But it's actually But yeah, I went I yeah went and saw an old buddy of mine. We hung out and chatted for hours about various things and And You know, I got back. I missed a couple weeks. So thank you all for thanks Matt for holding on the fort Well, I was on I went on a mission which will Hear a little bit more about some point the future. Yeah, you know, yeah, hopefully hopefully you'll be able to talk about it So, yeah, I mean I can say it in a general sense. I just went on a Mission looking for pockets of old things Yeah, and you found some pockets of old things. I did. Yeah, I did So, you know, and that's it's kind of interesting too because it's like one of the one of the things about About weed that I find really interesting and we'll talk about this as part of like the clone thing tonight is that how Like brokers and the demand from the public dramatically changes what people grow Yeah, right. So in California or Oregon or Washington or these places that are like really sort of like in tune Or can't sort of came about with medical or legal earlier There was a lot more rapid change in In what people grew because of what people demanded. Yeah, and so in some cases now You know, you have to go and look for some of these I don't want to call them backward states because that's rude But like yeah states that were slower to adopt You know some of this stuff which meant that people could grow things that were a lot older And they still worked really well for the crew that they were giving them to Yeah, because there was a lot of competition with the new new as it were there wasn't there wasn't pressure to change Yeah, and really, you know that it kind of ties into what we're talking about tonight because Pressure to change and a desire to make your life easy and give the broker what they want Um is what kind of makes uh old cuts disappear Yeah, you know that is and that's what we're seeing today and we've talked about in the last few episodes I mean if you would have told me 10 years ago That uh sour real sour diesel could be kind of hard to acquire depending Yeah, no one would believe it. Yeah, I'm actually shocked that lately today keep uh People keep telling me that the forum cut of cookies is becoming hard to source Which blows my mind. Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where you know, I've mentioned this before but Um every five or 10 years we'd reinvent itself. Yeah, I mean matt and I matt and I looked at it I have a friend up here who got uh a freezer of somebody who I know everyone talks about freezer beans or whatever Yeah, but uh my friend got a freezer of of old beans from people that was someone that was retiring and kind of getting out of the game Right and instead of being like from the ancient 80s or sssc or shit that people claim It was almost all from 2008 to 2012. Yeah, it was a pretty cool era I reached in I reached out to matt because I was busy having kids and doing a bunch of sit then And that was sort of like really your prime time. Yeah Right when you were like really really in tune with what was going on Yeah, and it was it was surprising to matt and I looking over it Just how ancient a lot of those things were and how 99 of it was unavailable Yeah, even especially the rascal stuff like at the time was really hot selling really well a lot of the fem stuff He was uh our main competition at the time as it were for fem stuff and looking at it I'm not I love that stuff. It's hard to grab now and it's great stuff Yeah, a lot of it and that's only from you know 14 12 14 years ago Yeah, which doesn't seem that long to me It's not actually that long You know traumas are very current You know, it always feels current. Yeah, so that's what that's what's interesting is like you get back to 10 12 years ago And and it's almost impossible to find Um a lot of seed stock from then and then you go back 10 more years And it's harder and you go back to the 90s and oh my god and you go back to the 80s and it's almost legends Yeah You know, which isn't really all that long but the way prohibition works and the way the market works So, you know, there's people there might be people in various states that are slow to adapt Um that have been rocking the same thing for 20 25 years. Yeah, because it's worked for them Right and the little customer base that they have that they you know that they give their access to is super stoked on it Yeah, um, and you so you almost need those pockets Um, you know because like, you know, when we talked about the purple episode every big grower I knew ran some kind of gdp, urkel, mendopi Um, you know great. Yeah something hybrid. Yeah And then fast forward 10 years and like six people held on to it Yep, now it goes out of hundreds just in my little area Yeah, you know and yeah, there's someone that's talking right now about oh, i'm sick. It has to be purple You know the purple craze was like I would say it was like 030405 maybe a little bit of 06 And then it went away for 15 years Yeah, it went away for for quite a while 15 18 years or something like that and then now all of a sudden it's back And people are just as annoyed now as they were back then Yeah You know, um, although back then I would say One of the biggest things about the purple craze that I don't like Uh was it was really the first time where a lot of diversity got lost Because people just wanted what the brokers wanted to buy. Yeah And so they were growing all these different things and you know, um, and then all of a sudden people are like, well, I want purple Yeah Yeah, a lot of beautiful beautiful green Lovely strains went by the wayside for the the oracle days Yeah, and we're gonna we're gonna talk about like old clones a lot today And that was really one of the eras that that kind of ushered in like the Everybody wants to grow the most popular thing at the time Yeah, because pre purple craze of like, you know early 2000s The amount of diversity that worked for the small and the medium market was pretty incredible Yeah, if it was good weed it probably sold Unlike today unlike today where you do see a lot of really good weed go by the wayside for Stuff that maybe we would all agree isn't as uh What we would consider kind as somebody others Oh, somebody just said 06 is when I first went to reggae on the river and the custody kids had got purple Got purple shirts on I went to I went to reggae on the river from I don't know probably like 95 to 03 or 04 I think 03 was like their their 20 year anniversary maybe or something like that And uh after going for 10 years, I'd seen most of the acts I wanted to see and it had gotten kind of A little hectic Yeah, I kind of felt like it was more like have a bunch of city kids show up on the river and hope nobody dies Kind of vibe Can you imagine reggae on the river in bakersfield how that would go with that? Well, there's no river There's a river here, but we didn't have we had the kern river here, which is big But we didn't have that what we had was called reggae fest And it was just I started playing those shows in about 06 because we had the reggae band going on at the time But it was very different than like the steel drum type reggae that a lot of people had It was just phenomenal to see what bakersfield offers in terms of reggae fans. It was it's pretty cool I mean, I never got to go to reggae on the river myself up there That's a tangent But I will talk about it just a couple of times because when I was coming out here in the mid 90s as a mid western kid Um reggae on the river has like two extremely clear memories where I really realized that like the emerald triangle in california Was a different place than where I was from. Yeah There was there was dready kids walking around reggae in 95 96 Back then it was still a two-day it was still a two-day weekend festival And it was a lot more locals that hadn't had like as many like city kids and stuff coming up from the bay yet But people were walking around with with five gallon buckets with spears and And you could buy a spear like a spear weed a top.  That was pretty incredible and like where where reggae used to be It's like um where the river is you can like look up And like the 101 the highway 101 is way up there, right? Yeah, and I remember I was like sitting In a in a seat on the riverbed and I was pulling bongs And I looked up and there was a highway patrol looking right at me And so coming from the Midwest Like if you make eye contact with a cop and you're doing drugs like you're it's not a good scene Yeah, no, and he waved to me and then just went back to what he was doing And I was like literally ready to like throw the bong in the river and run into the crowd Yeah, because that was like my training like what I you know like you it was time to run Yeah, and he would just he just gave me a wave and and went back to what he was doing and I was like, oh my god, you know There you are you're back Yeah, oh my god So, yeah, I mean those are but those were like two seminal moments at reggae on the river that For most people might not be that big of a deal But it just showed like what yeah like how different it how like there was a bubble that we lived in You know, yeah, it was a bubble That was a bubble so I I went through and and tonight we're gonna be might be joined by someone. I'm not sure we talked about it but as donors will do we just decided that Uh, we'll see if he shows up, you know, because you know Plans are plans and that's that's rough even for me. So we'll see if this person shows up, but um I went through the can of bible 3 because I remembered that there is a great list in here of the the late 90s early 2000s clones And I thought it would be fun to go through this list together And and there's some that I added in there's some that I took out of their list because they really weren't that relevant in terms of anything They just happened to be things that he was aware of that he threw in the middle, but um We got it all together. He brand even made it pretty with a fish and Uh, yeah, whenever you want to start going through it. We can start going through it Uh Jason someone just asked jason is not the guest. No, I no one stopped him. I don't think but um, you know Who knows, you know, I used to be pretty good friends with him a long time ago He would definitely be a character to have on one day Um, yeah for sure in that regard, you know, yeah, it would be very interesting to have on Super opinionated. I don't maybe he's mellowed in the last bit, but uh, you know, he definitely has Highly opinionated. Oh That's mellow. Uh, you know, he was super opinionated in person. Uh, some people that drove him absolutely nuts I can relate. I think that I really liked him and I liked like his vibe and what he was trying to do Yeah, yeah, sure But it's hard because like when you're when you're so certain about something and you don't leave room for other people's opinions Yeah, you can secretly offend a lot of people. Sure, which matt knows nothing about I wouldn't I wouldn't I'm very open people. He's not he's not he's not into that. Um, but uh But yeah, you know, they so just as a general sense, um Before we before we, you know dive into the list a little bit Um, I will say that, you know, like I was mentioning earlier um When there wasn't much weed, uh, most weeds sold Yeah, because it was better than mexican That was sort of like the standard like if it was better than green or brown mexican it's sold and then as the thing matured and and like and and and fads and waves started happening Certain popular cuts started getting, you know more in demand than others Yeah, but there was this period I would say from the mid 90s to the mid 2000s That may have been The greatest diversity era we've seen And that's where most of these cuts that matt and I are going to talk about come from because They came at a time when there was a lot of seed banks starting to operate Uh in amsterdam and there was a lot of genetics starting to get traded around friends And um almost all good weed had a place Yeah And it hadn't really it hadn't really been like oh, you you don't have sour. I don't want to buy it You don't have urkel. I don't want to buy it. You don't have gelato. I don't want to buy it That hadn't happened. So that meant a lot of people could Grow what they liked pick what they liked and form a little vibe on it Yeah And I would honestly say that's probably all that stuff that we're about to chat about is probably the backbone of today You know, I would also Put this in the era Before oji kush was readily available in seed for everyone That's when I noticed the big change in whole Collectives being just oji kush. We want oji oji or fucking nothing, you know Um, I mean you were right before that was readily available for everyone I remember I remember walking into a club in in the in la Yeah, seeing literally no exaggeration like 25 different types of kush Yeah, yeah, and it like reminds based on it and you're like, well like that's all your that's that's the whole thing Yeah, you know like there's nothing else Um, but you know the reason why there's financial reasons that happened Uh, there's there was you know, there's various economic indicators that push all those things Yeah, you know like when I first started coming out to uh to mendo It was very very common to buy mixed phenos pounds Yeah, it was all the same strain Right, but they were they they would blend the different plants together It didn't have to be like I have a 50 pack of just this one cut That hadn't started yet, but then eventually it became it had to be this one thing Yep And every time that's happened even though the purples I love the urkel and the mendo pea and stuff like that are pretty close to my heart And I love sour diesel And and most of the sour diesels that people argue about right now whether they're real or not or most of them are good smoke Yeah, og kushes are excellent smoke I'm not as big a fan of cookies, but uh, you know, um like, you know, they're all good Yeah, they just they just came at a cost of everything else A big cost a big cost of everything else So I don't know I don't have the list in front of me you have in front of you I don't know how you want to keep it in some kind of entertaining format All right, I will just start naming and then um, let me know if you you have any memories somebody said the aota I don't i'm not familiar with it. What's that aota is aota And it was all of the above Okay, uh, we used to rock the aota in the early 2000s. I don't know who mentioned it Um, but the aota was really tasty weed So whoever mentioned that uh, super cool that you popped that up. Yeah, that's that's something I didn't even know about I don't think uh, I don't think I've seen the aota since probably Oh, I don't know. I don't know when the last time I saw the oh the the aota, but we had it in our crew I don't I don't even remember where it came from To be honest Um, but it was uh, it was it was it was good weed. It was it was fruity And uh, it was it was really tasty Okay, so I keep remembering little ones to add in as I'm going through this but I'll start at the top Afgui which predictably was going to be one of them. Do you have experience with the afgu? uh You know a lot of people liked the afgui I sort of thought it was blandish You probably smoked that nasty ass outdoor version I mean, I don't know you can talk about it then because I don't have the greatest memories of the afgu So I it it was spelled so many different ways people would cost about like afgui Afgui some people think that gui is afgui Which goes from gui breeder. I don't know. I don't have enough experience with gui breeder's gui The afgui I was familiar with was a more I wouldn't say short, but yes, it was it was more squatter than most Plants people were used to dealing with it had this beautiful almost watermelon blueberry type turp That was very hard to describe and it was true breeding for it Um almost everything I crossed it to or that it was crossed in Took on the afgui smell and I could see how people could get very overwhelmed by it because it's very distinctive Um, you could also describe as like cantaloupe bead berry It was it was unique and I I tended to love it. It would pass on beautiful resin traits Uh, it had good potency not the best yield, but um, I think overall Uh, it's one of my faves off this list. Oh, there you go I was going to diss it slightly because I know I just saw a bunch of Of midi midsy before we called things mids uh midsy outdoor Yeah, and I would think it could be very midsy outdoor. I think it was not it was not I never saw the greatest examples, but then there you go, you know Um, how about I have no experience with real albert walker, but I did get the dego fake albert walker Do you have you've grown albert walker? I don't know that I grew the real albert albert walker But I do think that was a pretty flavorful and potent cut Yeah, I know fletch has a lot of familiarity with it fletch would be an excellent person to chat about the history of it That's one that like none none none of my none of my old crew Uh, or really had any access to it. You know, uh, I think there was one friend of mine that might have been growing it for a bit But it wasn't it wasn't too much Okay, um now this is one that a lot of people are familiar with from um Oh, what the fuck dutch flowers they work with it the blue dot Oh I know there's two the blue dot. Uh, I am familiar with that that stuff. There was this guy My god, does he go by a crunch bubble? Uh There was a guy on the forums you could probably search for him or whatever and uh The blue dot was one of the big strains that used to get pushed through grown in oakland a lot And it was pushed through one of the early uh dispensaries that we called the third floor That's what it was third floor third floor, which was a pretty famous dispensary back then in the east bay Um, a lot of people got their purple cuts from the third floor They were very tied into my area to humboldt and and and mendo and stuff like that They got a hold of like the the granddaddy and the urkel and stuff like that and yeah crunch bubble from ic mag He used to blow up tons of blue dot back in the day Um, it was a nice cut. I never ran it personally, but it was like it was one of those like bay area specials Um, it really got rocked a lot Um, and I think it was part of blow fish if I remember he used to he that guy used to send it You know, you know, you have like 40 lighters or whatever and yeah early warehouses with like do you remember like all the old like Skinny rectangle sunlight hoods Oh, yeah, you know with like the with the single ended 600 watt hordelux Oh, yeah, you know and like the trays and all that like that was like cutting edge at the time Yeah, um, but you know he had some you know pretty good size scenes or whatever that and and there was like a huge demand for blue dot Yeah, so I don't have a bunch of personal experience growing it But I mean I would get bags of it on occasion going to the bay Um, and it was definitely like it was a bay area classic. I would say for a period of years Yeah, uh, someone just said I do think that green crack is a phenol of skunk one Um, you know, at least it's it's heavily in there. Yeah And put it that way Yeah, I could see that definitely. I mean the mango that loud mango terrify. I usually associate with skunk one touch stuff as it is um blue Motherfucking dream blue dream So blue dream is one of those things that has a bad reputation. Um mostly because Anything that could get eight to ten pounds at you know five Let's say five to ten pounds be a little bit more generous anything that could get five to ten pounds Outdoor reliably Um got blown up in my neck of the woods And so if you to me if you grow blue dream in like a little pot and you get like a four to eight or ten ounce plant or something It's really flavy and really pretty weak Yeah, but most people's opinion of blue dream is this giant outdoor Sort of b-grade, maybe poorly dried You know rock hard buds the turps aren't really there um, but you know, it kind of got famous because um, you know people used to go with blue dream billionaire right where Backward lead was worth a lot. You could put out a 99 blue dreams and get 700 pounds.   Yeah, so their memory of it is Uh, is just the big blown out crazy nugs that are b-grade So another thing that I remember with blue dream during that era Was that a lot of people when it first popped off were growing one cut There was one blue dream cut that was going around and it was pretty pretty well Passed out like people a lot of people had this cut was being blown out of Collectives and it was pretty damn. I mean good for the time. It was very resinous had good potency good yield Didn't mold up too easy none of the stuff that you know would normally keep stuff down But after that big huge first push seed lines were released named blue dream by Emerald triangle seeds. I think hso put out a blue dream and those quickly quickly were picked up and run And those cuts were passed as blue dream and the original cut was quickly drowned out by Other blueberry haze type combos And I I do think that that thing that matt just described is actually a common thing That can happen to certain strains where a strain gets named something Then it gets named and put into a seed line And then there's all these phenos floating around that aren't the original cut that made it famous.   I I still like it. Um, our buddy pack works with it currently He did the blue dream train wreck hybrid for all of us older heads. That's like phenomenal and cool Yeah, I mean Yeah, I was just gonna say that you know, uh, the first time I really showed my face on any of these things Was when our buddy, uh, csi asked me to do an event that he was throwing up in Humboldt And I went and I was on a panel with him and um, uh, you know mean gene and uh, uh, Kevin Jowdery and just different folks, you know Yeah, and he talked about like, you know train wreck For northern Humboldt was one of like the first Named cuts You know the wreck. Yeah the wreck, you know, so there's a lot of legends with the wreck because it was uh It was you know, it was I don't know if I don't know if santa cruz original haze. That's a whole different movie. Uh, blue dream is Super silver haze is a much much, uh, uh change child Of haze I see I think what select genetics to is referring to is again. There were several different seed lines Unknown undisclosed haze. So most people would agree that that blue hen from, um, what are they called? Can get some tucky. See I can't remember off the top of my head But blue hen was the super silver haze 98 blueberry probably where it was selected from Um, but it was also widely grown other Than that under the name blue hen as well But the very first santa cruz cut of blue dream, which still exists is a super silver haze cross That's the one we're referring to specifically and it's tasty. Not everybody likes the high Um, uh, and if you grow it too big it's definitely a shitty, but I think that's true a lot of lead There's a sweet spot of yield and quality Yeah, bluegrass seed. There you go. Thank you Cameron bluegrass seeds. Yeah, there's there's definitely a sweet spot It's not all the same sweet spot with strains But there's definitely a point of diminishing returns as you get bigger and bigger plants Where it just doesn't give you as nice of weed. Yeah You know, so next would be bubble gum uh bubble gum Um, I I did I had a lot of experience with a lot of other bubble gums in the seed line But this this specific clone I didn't get until a few years ago and I find it phenomenal. It's an amazing breeder Uh, it's mold resistant this specific cup that csi and pip and all those guys use came by a 1995 from the cup I believe it was bought the same year that it won the cup So, uh, that's that's what goes around. It's a serious. It's a selection from serious seeds bubble gum The bummer for me It's a great breeder. Yeah, it's very frosty. Yeah, it's fairly potent. I wouldn't say it's up there with like I wouldn't say it's up there with the best of the best, but it's got it's got a good little punch Uh, the disappointing thing about it to me is that it smells Very strongly of bubble gum turps. Yes, um, but the flavor does not translate for me It's not even a little bit.  It doesn't feel like you're chewing big league chew when you smoke it Yeah, but it's a great breeder. It's super consistent. It's one of the most mold resistant things out there Um, it's a cool plant. Yeah You know arrowhead hemp farms. Yes, indiana is serious seeds It is a serious seed selection though a lot of people put the indiana bubble gum as the mother of serious seeds that they use But that's not the case. It was actually a selection from their Seedline and if we want to go even back further, there's you know, adam dunn has this whole thing about where it came from Um, you know neville felt like they just stole it From working with him. Yeah and renamed it that it was it was some big buds It was some combination of stuff that he was already working on. Yeah, um, you know So there's there's dispute over where where where it came from Yeah, and that happens a lot where people try to obscure origins Yeah, definitely. That's a common thing. You know, so All right, I see bull rider in the comments.  The only thing you could find was afghani bull rider, which there is no proof evidence Anyway, the afghani bull riders related to the original bull rider. It's very different Um, old betsy is said to be a sister to the original bull rider. What's that? We still have uh old betsy still exists And is still held and run by multiple friends and and crew Um, and it's supposed to be a sister of the original bull rider I don't know that matter. I know anyone that has original bull rider that we believe Not that we're sure of but old betsy exists and who knows it could exist outside of our our experience It definitely could exist, but I haven't seen it a lot of people made A lot of claims about it recently, but None holed up and most are based on the afghani bull rider Maybe I should say something just real quick one time when I was in chicago Uh, before I moved to california. I saw some bubblegum That they had bought from out there and brought back and it had hot pink hairs and was lime green Um, and was super gorgeous I never really saw it again. I only saw it a few times. Who knows who was growing it back then But I did see a very cool version of it a long time ago When serious first released it. Yeah So, um, yeah that we we went through bull rider bubblegum Banana og do you have any? I know you've grown banana og. Do you have any memorable experiences with it?  I don't really know what to make of it Um, the organ kid or somebody like that made it famous. It's not really my background on that one So banana og came from a pack of og years kush his original release of what he wanted to be the og kush seed line um No chiquita bananas not the origi I came way later and as a rename. Um, so he got it as uh The og kush the the clone that he had and he got he selected a mail from some I think it was an indoor Um 60 40 from segar matha, which meant 60 sativa 40 indica remember that line. Yep. Yeah, he popped those and I've asked Tony from segar matha what it was and he said it was just something he bought in bulk from someone He didn't know it was just labeled 60 40. So he knew exactly what it was So anyways, whatever was in the 60 40 kicked whatever would breed true for these banana terms So he released og years kush expecting it to be a good version og kush And that's where people found this beautiful clone that was very banana like and later on You know as people pop more seeds more people found different clones.  So I'll I'll throw in something that's uh kind of related You know before uh, there used to be in the in the 40s 50s and 60s Um, the banana the banana that everyone ate was a different banana Fino that that you eat then you eat now. Yeah, and it was destroyed by root fungus Right, it had a much different flavor than the current banana that everybody has grown up with But what's interesting is kind of how banana candy tastes a little different than you would expect It to taste like it's banana, but it like it's kind of you think of it as like candy kemi banana Yeah, that flavor was was developed off the first bananas that were commercially sold in america Yeah, and they didn't change it You know the cabbage yep There you go the cavendish The so most banana candy is based on the flavor of the cavendish banana Not the modern banana that everybody is used to eating And you know I I actually owe a great deal of my career to the banana og And some of orgin kid stuff and uh, tony from saker math is stuff It still lives on today and a lot of strains that I work with and the others work with so banana og is the Shit, I think I like it though I will say in a lot of outcrosses Depending on what you cross it to there are phenos that are just straight cardboard and they're hard to dodge But that clone stands a test of time. I think for sure It's a it's a good one. It kind of got buried a little bit and it got lost amongst other things But it's it's a it's a cool unique turf and it had a nice buzz. Yeah so, you know Here's a fun one that that Probably is is actually several different different clones or seed lines. Hold on one second These guys are correct actually the cavendish replaced the I was off the top of my head. They're talking about which banana cultivars existed And I got it reversed So the cavendish was the first and the the cavendish is now and it replaced this thing I don't know how to pronounce it, but it was like gross mcowell or something like that so Yeah, someone keeps asking about the chiquita that was the chiquita banana was Popped from the platinum banana og kush, which was a hybrid of bubba kush something in banana og And it came I mean that was so much later because it was from my work and it was later like Seven years after I made the platinum banana og and my work was so much later after orgin kid did So no, it's it. They're very different, but um, the chiquita banana is based on if it has a lot more in it Okay, what's next cap piss again Many many different clones. I think I saw several in san diego Called cap piss that were very different from each other some I didn't smell any cap piss in some people did What's your experience? Uh, well, I'll say a couple things. Uh, one is that You know, I think that it's one of those aspects of smell that people relate stuff to So I think it's like I think it's like I think it's like how some people perceive certain kinds of terpenaline Yeah, right And since terpenaline is kind of a common aroma that pops up I think there's more than one cat piss And I do believe we're going to have a shabbat on the on the program here in the next couple of weeks And so we could probably save the deep dive into cat piss for him Because that is one of his specialties And he knows an enormous amount about the history and he's tried all the different ones.  Yeah, um, you know, but uh, you know, so there was there was a few different names Yeah, one second. I'm bringing in someone if you want to See how he's doing All right, what is cheetah piss?   Um, you know, that's marketing That's like the cookie team coming up with marketing names cookie Never really has any names that tie to what this strain is actually like Yeah, um, they definitely have a team of marketing people Deciding what to call things And what kind of art goes with it and what the packaging is going to look like and what the mylar's are going to be Um, so they're a very new school type of approach to naming strains So it's all good. Gene you can text if you have time Uh, what's next? Um, someone asked if any ssh smells like cat piss. Yes. I mean, that's a great example of turpinoline I have that pissy smells.  He'll talk about when you inbreed haze.  They're not all the same. Some are sweet.  There's definitely a range in turpinoline there, but um, but yeah I whenever nevel talks about cat piss. I think of of turpinoline Yeah, and I do too. I mean, I know there's afghanis that are acrid and ammonia type And that's what I used to think of when people would say pissy. I would think of the acrid ammonia ureic type smells But um, I think a lot of people think of turpinoline and I just my nose does not pick up that piss scent from turpinoline And then when you you know, the other part of it is like once you when you grow or you smoke C5 or something like that and it's just a turpinoline monster Yeah, and he refers to it as very cat pissy Yeah, then obviously that's what his mind goes to Yeah You know So Okay, uh next the cheese The cheese so the cheese has a pretty cool story Yeah, it might be the oldest skunk one phenol that's spread around Yeah, it's supposed to be from the late 80s That's right.  Supposed to be I don't know much about the crew. I thought they were supposed to be ravers or some Same thing. Yeah, same thing.  Yeah, you know, yeah type of thing But skunk but it was a phenol of skunk one and most skunk one Is Citrus or floral Sometimes grape Never skunk And the rarest would be probably the kind of a funky cheese. Yeah aroma. Yeah And so there's a sister of it supposedly called psychosis. Yeah, which is not nearly as circulated You know the English are all big on it because it's one of the few things that actually originated from their island Yeah The blues livers psychosis and there's another one too that they always used to talk about and and I'd really I'd love to grow them one day, but I have never been Um Where I could get it from a I from a source with provenance.  So as I got it later and it was fruity and sweet I was like, no way.   Um Yeah, yeah cuts people are talking a suicide cut. There's like any like a lot of old famous strains Um, you know, I'll I'll use a different example. I mean in my lifetime. I've watched the chem dog get called chem dog We shortened it to dog Our buddy came online and it became the scumped va cut. It got called the chem 91 Um, you know different cuts that are the same the same cut can get different nicknames and different Different things over time with different crews. Yeah You know exodus suicide bright side You know all these different things.  It breeds really well for calyx, you know, you know better It improves leafiness makes less leafiness makes long running colas It's mildly potent. I would say I'd say most most skunks are in like the mid-teens In terms of in terms of thc, you know gets big Little metallic, maybe I don't know. No, yeah Um, someone mentioned one that we actually I should have put on the list, but I didn't and that's blackberry Do you did you ever have any experience with blackberry up there not blackberry kush, but just blackberry, uh We had more with blackberry kush Although I always thought it was just blackberry and people added kush to it because at the time all these brokers wanted kush So it's like here's your purple kush Yeah, um, the original blackberry was a lot different from the the blackberry kush The blackberry kush was a white rhino bubba hybrid from oregon kid. Um, the original blackberry was from A dude named soma blaze if I remember correctly scott soma blaze and he ended up passing away naboo ended up Kind of carrying on the torch of it and you know, there were a lot of beautiful pictures I think in one of these canna bibles if I can pull it up super fast has a beautiful picture of it There's a real famous picture of it inside of a jar of like blackberry preserves That that was really famous of it Um At the time there wasn't a lot of colored weed So it stood out very much. So and and it was it was used a lot in a lot of the hybrids that were famous from that point on Um, because it bred true for whatever its purple traits were For a long time, you know, people thought it was different from the mendo perps But I think later on people realized that there was a good chance It was a a bag seed from mendo perps and I think that's kind of where we're at with If nebu had a voodoo doll right now, you'd be stabbed in the jungler vein He would he would he definitely would be really upset, but it does seem like the timeline Uh, is is correct. Yes, you know The one thing I'll say about the blackberry whether it was blackberry or blackberry kush Um, both of them were pretty weak potency wise.  They would like no I got way too many complaints. It was too like people want to get high and some people are comparing it to purple punch, but um Purple punch has I think personally great turps and I would say blackberry kush really was not on the great turp range No, and and we didn't even call there was no turps then that was even that was even before most uh The the revolution of hashish that happened again with all the nails and all that so it never got the it never really got the I don't know. It was it was bumped in Mendo for a time, but yeah, you know, whatever Okay, here's your your your favorite Cam dog I think we started covering some of it so go ahead the cam dog You know, yeah, I mean, you know, it was uh, it's one of those things where it's been talked about tons by various people myself Our buddy skunk va and all that Um, I would say that the best thing you could say about cam dog is that it is It's got rare potency Uh very rare potency and the potency Tends to be dominant and translate into lots of hybrids that you make with it So it makes up for being and strangely it doesn't look very resinous It's not very pretty.  I I don't know how they do it But most grows like even my grows of it. I see it is just cannibalizing its own leaves Oh, it does that. I mean that that actually sour does the same thing as that and that's kind of why I think But they um, there's an aspect to that where a lot of I'll say this and this might piss some people off or whatever, but Uh, there's a lot of people that are taking We would always take the the the dog to like say 10 weeks Yeah, right and that's when we kind of somewhere between 65 and 72 or 73 days depending on how long you could let it rock, you know and uh You know it would test somewhere between you know 18 and 22 or 23 percent then but it knocked your head off Yeah, and then when all this testing bullshit came into effect They realized that that was too low Yeah, and so some people started cutting it at like 53 54 days and you can see white hairs all over it But it'll test at 29 percent Yeah, and then so the grower gets to grow it quicker and turn it quicker And then the dispensary is happy because it gets to put this high thc label on it And a lot of people end up on the legal market these days buying premature chem dog in my opinion.  Yeah Yeah, so it would be nice if it had flavor too that helps Sometimes this is what I'll say sometimes and this is just my personal opinion Sometimes chem dog has amazing flavor Yeah, really deep flavor that I love and I can smell it in the weed and it and that smell translates And like I grow chem dog all the time and maybe one or two rips a year It gives me that flavor. Yeah And I have tried a million different ways to figure out whether it's heat whether it's new whether it's this whether it's that I've grown it salt. I've grown it organic. I've grown it every which way you can imagine Yeah, it's just finicky. Sometimes it gives me the flavor. Sometimes the potency is almost always there Yeah, it's it the potency in the high is pretty is pretty standard Yeah, the closest I've seen of that turf extreme was from and I always talk about this but like I Like I didn't get the love for chem 91 or the dog as you guys called it until I smoked a chem 91 hybrid That he had made that was very chem 91 done it in the turf, but it was just turned to a 10 I imagine it's probably how chem 91 was when you guys first started growing it and I understood the love for it after that because that that turf profile is fucking nice and it's very unique I've never smelled anything close to it.  Yeah The bud itself usually stays perfectly fine. Yeah You know, but uh, but yeah, it's rough I see I see a lot of those endless white pistols on it too. Just like no matter what people do It just will keep throwing white Or stigma So I'll throw I'll throw out something interesting when you used to grow it under like hordelock So your standard whatever. Yeah, it would take 80 it would take 70 like I said 68 72 days something like that, right?   So I usually have one or two at least going for ed Yeah, I've grown it a lot Okay, next up your second favorite maybe chem D chem D Yeah, uh chem D Chem D is cool. You know chem D has a different high than chem 91 It's prettier. It's frostier much prettier.  Yeah, but then you get close to it and you can't smell that skunk Yes, you just smell the putrid. Yes, you know Um, and I think I think it's uh, I think it's uh, I think it's a hybrid Honestly of this might get me in trouble, but I think it's a hybrid of chem 91 and uh superskunk. Yes Um, and I think the superskunk gives it its frost and its color it even herms kind of like the superskunk did Yeah, um, and like I said, uh the chem 91 throws that crazy potency Yeah, um, so it's a short squat afghan. I would also say that Uh, there's three or four fakes that float around. Yes, um, and those fakes tended to get Uh, trade baited a lot more than the original cut So matt was talking about how certain cuts got buried by the wave of what came after Yes, lots and lots of people have fake chem d Everybody wanted d but not everybody had access to d but there was always a bunch of people willing to To to pass around fake versions of it for a little bit of tinga, you know So and there's this thing too where it's like When I say trade baiting what matt and I mean when we talk about trade baiting is some people would go after cuts Just to get certain things to be able to trade them for other things. Yes So like there was people like myself or skunk vie or others that held on to the the chem d and had them And there's different people that had it and they held it kind of tight And then there were some people that got it just so they could use that cut to unlock a bunch of other cuts They wanted to get access to yes So they spread out and it just so happened that they got some fakes And even like some pretty reputable people that like are supposed to know a bunch got fakes So it was it was out there was a bunch There's a bunch of people and it can be really hard to tell in the bag What you know, they look very similar Side by side grows usually show you and to me their real d like it has a potency and a flavor the other ones don't Yeah So there you go on that one I have no idea someone just said I have no idea if the gmo was made with the real chem I mean gmo was made in spain. I think so i'm very doubtful that it was used in real time GMO is a great cut on its own So one is just kind of irrelevant in the sense that it works good. It yields good. It smokes good It washes good. So, you know, it's a good cut Yeah, um, and I I always like when I categorize it in my head I always refer to like the chem d I remember it as the more cushy looking one by its Nature how it stacks and everything and the chem too I always remember as the most cushy of the bunch. It was more like little tiny nugs looking at all If i'm being real, I think there's there's chem 91 in both sour diesel and in chem d Yeah, and chem d is sort of like a squat afghan version And sours are sort of like a tall lanky columbians Skunk type version. Yeah That's my that's my view. Okay chem dog number four Chem dog number four is cool Uh, it's probably the most widely circulated chem Yeah, I would say I didn't see a lot of fake cuts ever pop up of there's not really fake cuts It yields like a champ um and uh It it reminds me a lot of nl5 haze Yes, um our buddy pip who we joke loves to take everything 12 weeks no matter how long it's supposed to take Um, I had him take a really nice snug of chem four and put it on top of nev a picture of neville's 1989 nl5 haze I have it on my phone.  It's much taller Uh, the only thing I'll say about it is that uh, it takes probably 12 weeks And a lot of people cut it at 10 Yeah, I think a lot of people were cutting it at eight to nine like in california So there's uh, there's a lot of chem d that doesn't make the cut Um, because most people don't want to take it that full 12 weeks I like that quote the blue dream of gas. Yes Yeah, but if you if you take if you take the chem four 84 days or something like that and you grow it nice It's it's really nice. Yeah, and I would say no chem four is probably one of the furthest from the original It looks nothing. It looks nothing like Uh, the the chem 91 actually chem one is probably the furthest from the original but chem four definitely is very far from it Indeed. Yeah, um Uh, let's see. I think we don't have to do the chem sister s1 specifically. Let's do um We can do the chem sys real quick. Okay, go ahead. Uh, the chem sys is dead Yes, um, it exists in a couple of s1s One of them is called the bundy cut.  Yeah So there you go. Yeah, that's that's good history on it. You know, um Uh, cherry slider, do you have an experience of cherry slider? No, I've no named skiddy. Um, it was it was from the early boards. Um, I wasn't a big fan of it very leafy Somebody just asked what is the chem sys skunk the a uses? I think he uses the bundy cut Which is a chem sys s1 Uh, I talked to greg about the chem sys because it since it never came west With my buddy.  That was a dutch flowers cut The one I grew is the one a lot of people grew and I thought it was like a c99 Probably but no one's ever said that like I've never talked to anybody about it.  Um, I collected their stuff heavily and even after I found out like by growing a bunch of it that it was really It was either just stuff renamed or just not very Interesting, you know, um people are asking questions real quick that that are going way too fast So I'm apologize if if your question doesn't get picked up because we're trying to chat and whatnot um, but I will say someone just mentioned pot of gold pot of gold was a uh um pot of gold and uh Was it was one of my favorite probably my favorite thing that came from the flying dutchman And it was a hindu kush by skunk one Yeah, it was a very very flavorful strain. I liked it a whole bunch They also had this other thing called the real mccoy Which was a hawaiian by skunk. I don't they might be on the list, but there's a it was a hawaiian by skunk one That was also super good. Um, I liked both of those a bunch and then the final good question I thought was gravity from nevel um We think although we're not sure It seems like gravity is unreleased versions of black domino uh, so black domino was uh, uh, senty release It was um hash plant by nl one by uh garlic Yeah, but he had a few different versions that he made before he released it And I think gravity is one of the two unreleased versions Uh, yes metal haze is one of the dutch flowers ones as well That was basically a skunk haze and it was definitely one of the ones that they got people drooling Over releasing it. I grew a bunch of that one as well, but we are going in motherfucking alphabetical All right.   So, um, uh, let's see um cotton candy Cotton candy. Did you ever grow a cotton candy cut? I did grow a cotton candy. I wish I knew more about it Um, and I actually recently grew a cotton candy s1 through my my my buddy Who lives near me that I've traded back and forth with for forever I don't know anything about the lineage or the backstory of it Um, but I did like it It was federation seeds cotton candy was the one that I was familiar with and like most different federation, there's um a lot of accusations of name re renaming but not so I'm not sure what it really is But I've always been a big fan of it, you know, I like cotton candy I think that it'll make a comeback one day just because it's of its name And it's a structure. It had a good modern look to it Yeah, somebody just threw in uh Sensi star genetics Um, luke from paradise seeds is sensi star. Sensi star is an amazing line He refuses to talk any lineage or history that i'm aware of about specifics Of sensi star. Uh, matt myself our buddy pip others have been hunting forever For real information, uh, don't know Yeah, yeah, I've tried recently with luke and and I highly respect luke like he's one of the most respected actual breeders over in amsterdam by other seed makers and breeders He's a very serious breeder But it came from a different era where a lot of people stole his his genetics That he would give out testers people would release it before he even released it.  Yeah, that's super accurate. Yeah, they got they got very tight-lipped They saw no benefit to revealing what it was made of it was all their secret sauce They didn't want anybody stealing the genetics and then anyone anybody writing similar genetics on their own packaging Yeah, so they just kept quiet about it. So I don't we don't know what sensei star is We don't know what ak is. We don't know what callie mist is We just don't yeah, um cough Cough is something that we have a really good friend of ours on the discord Um that is probably more suited to talk cough history than us Uh, but cough is very likely an nl5 haze feno It came out of connecticut in the early 90s and it made its way to colorado Most people refer to it as the fort collins cough But it did start on the east coast Um, it's uh, it's an nl5 to me. It's an n it's an nl5 haze It grows like it it smokes like it. It's got the buzz like it It's uh, it's one of those, you know, it's one of the surviving nl5 haze finos in america Um, there was cough one and cough two Which were hybrids of that which have their own sort of story behind them Um, he might be good. Maybe we'll have him on one day to promote. He breeds and does cool. Shit And he's A good friend of ours and he knows a lot of the story But that's the biggest he just did a um an interview with dude growth shows Working man where he gives the whole history that he knows of the cough if people want to watch you It was just recently uploaded and he's a trustworthy character and he's had it for 20 plus years and yeah You know, he knows most of the people involved that brought it to colorado So, you know, um, it's a great cut. It's one of the survivors I would say I I've said this before too, but nl5 haze probably has the most surviving Cuts around of any 90s cross Yeah, I would say so that between Europe in here Um, and that's one of them. Yep So it's a great cut yields huge Takes a while takes 12 13 weeks You know, but there you go Dabney blue did Dabney blue ever run up in your area? It was it was big in san diego and it was big in so cal But yeah, that's something I know like my my knowledge might even be negative Yeah, it's it was an awesome cut very frosty. It had a blueberry muffin type Turberry it was more potent than most of the blueberries that were around. So yeah Um, it's about all there is on it. I haven't seen it in a long time Somebody's asking about big sir. Holy weed. Holy Jesus. Oh, yeah, I guess we didn't we didn't cover big sir. Holy weed We could do big sir. Holy weed. That's that's so I got a couple of things Big sir. Holy weed has a lot of uh There's a lot of legends behind it. It was supposedly grown by monks in central california Um, I will say that my my buddy who gave me both the super skunk and the chem It was his favorite weed that he could get on dead door And supposedly there was big sir. Holy skunk and big sir. Holy haze Oh, interesting and both were sold on dead tour and he swears that Big sir.  You could tell that they had the big sir. Holy. Yeah Um, and then there's a there's some guys obviously that Brought some seeds and some stuff that have some legend uh to it that brought it to maybe adam done or somebody like that And they had supposedly they mixed it into sage um, but that's You know, it's what adam didn't make sage, but so he wouldn't have been the one I can never pronounce this But it supposedly descended maybe from purple Oh, the zihua tineho purple. Yeah, and and they also refer to it as zacketechus purple Because zacketechus is a z and easier to pronounce But yeah, it was the zihua tineho purple that's The hooked on phonics truck never stopped by my house So I just let matt take that one because I was gonna mangle it bad If I tried to say it but there's a bunch of rumors about it. It's a legendary strain One of my oldest friends, uh It was his favorite weed on dead tour and it was sold on dead tour two different types Yeah, yeah I I don't know what's been proven about it what it hasn't been proven about it Um, I know that that's supposedly one of the key ingredients in scentsy star um, that was from a direct quote from adam done, but Take it for what it is Yeah, I you know, there's the people are asking a bunch of questions and stuff like that and we're trying to go through this stuff So, you know, there's there's good questions.   Okay, director diesel Uh, you know I um that one has a lot of legend to it Uh, and I think because it has a lot of legend and not a lot of like Like information There's a lot of claims made about it. Yeah Like some people refer to the day record is the first real headband Yeah, although the original crew that had the first headband never called it that at all Yeah, you know, um, you know, it's uh, you know diesel is one of the most famous american families Yeah, and there's a lot of nicknames that get attached to it I've never ran anything that I thought it was day record diesel that had any kind of Um any kind of verifiable story Yeah, I I I've done a deep dive and it's actually on the breeder syndicate youtube I believe it's up there and you can watch it up there. I recently made it available Um, I did a deep dive on trying to do uh research provenance based on internet research on the day record diesel And I got not very far. It doesn't go back very far But the clone's been around a long time So it's really hard to find things other than like some some tour manager from Grateful Dead Kind of gave it out to some people and that's likely where That where it begins the story But um, it does appear to be some kind of chem 91 hybrid to me like chem 91 early og type hybrid Um super not it's really potent. It's ripping potent and breeds for that potency. I love the cut But I just don't know if it's the original diesel like it claims probably not What's the next one?   It's conjecture a little bit, but boy does it really I think it is. Um, it made its way to Oregon and got renamed dog shit Which is a shame because it was uh I think electric boogaloo is one of the coolest Weed names Yeah, it is. Um, I grow it. I like it a bunch It's uh, um You know, it's a 12 or 13 week Uh sativa Very up high Uh, and it kind of looks like to me like classic 90s northern lights It kind of smells like classic 90s weed to me. Yeah, it's it's it's one of the pretty if it if it is pure nl 5 haze It's one of the prettier ones as far as like visually attractive Um, I've had it for a while. I love it. Yeah, it's a great cut Great buzz highly recommend it highly recommend the hybrids that come from it If you can get it or get hybrids of it.  Yeah Likely story I mean it might be real who knows that's the story behind it Whether or not that story is true or whether it's a tale or whatever Um, that doesn't give you a lot of information about its lineage Yeah, obviously, but you know Um g 13 we did just a few weeks ago with archive. We just uploaded it. We went into more detail on it So we could skip over that one for now.  Dink from colorado if i'm correct. There was a uh sister cut I believe There, uh, I can't remember its name with the funky bitch or something Like that. Um, I think it was a ISS Romulan Island sweet skunk and island sweet skunk was a rename of something else from somewhere else Island sweet skunk is supposedly an nl5 hasp, you know Really? Yeah 100 percent. Um, I know multiple canadians that have told me that And uh supposedly it got renamed by mark emory Yeah, who wanted skunk seeds To sell in his catalog. Um, but it is supposedly an nl5 haze phenol You know and it was crossed to something from uh The one that got sold from mark emory was crossed to something. Um that breeder steve had I can't remember I could get the story. I it's not popping up in my head right on the top of my head But that's that's what it is. Yeah, and they're right actually, uh, mr. Dink was from kansas. That is correct I don't know why I said color it got real popular in colorado I think maybe he moved there. I might be wrong on that but it got super popular in colorado for a long time And yeah island sweet skunk hybrid of steve's uh sweet skunk, and that's why he flipped out about it Um sweet skunk widow. There we go sweet skunk widow ISS um Yeah, I don't I mean that's what steve says it is and the federation supposedly changed the name and his story um But yeah, it was I thought goat and goat was very frosty. It was a nice like uh narrow leaf dominant plant. I liked it a lot Um, but yeah, it was it was one of those ones that got overblown in colorado So a lot of people just kind of shit talked it after a time, but I thought it was pretty good. I thought it was decent. Um The granddaddy purple so Granddaddy purple came about Um in the purple craze era I would say that the probably the first two Purple cuts that got famous right then Uh was my mendo perps and the urkel Um, and then right around that same time Lavender came up. There's a debate Uh between whether or not lavender was massively different than urkel or was just a different little feno Um, my buddy that I was just talking about uh that lives over in late county I remember 20 22 years ago something like that um, he had brought down the lavender from, uh Meyers flat area of humble and I had the urkel And we like looked at it and it was like the same it was like almost as close to the same lead as you could imagine Yeah, um, yeah granddaddy purple was supposedly that uh urkel by by big bud Um people have people have tried to push it on that the this gentleman that disappeared sadly a long time ago From saman creek that maybe it was crossed to the saman creek big bud People that worked for him and stuff like that said that they don't believe that because they never saw it You know and why wouldn't they have it if it came from that chris guy? Yeah chris chris gacky He disappeared in oh three or so Um, he was murdered, uh, but they've never found him. So It's an open case still and um You know, so there's there's different versions of of grant of of the origin story I will say that the origin of granddaddy purple the origin of urkel Uh are all very mysterious. Yeah, there's lots of people that have tossed their hat into the ring Um and said various things about it. Oh, yeah, for sure But I don't know that you know, it's one of it's for for how popular it became Um, you know, it's one of the ones that you really can't tie back to anyone Um, I know some gdp stories. I don't know if I tend to believe them But um, I'll tell it, you know and people can make their decision on it So there's this one. There's this woman that I'm friends with her family Um, it was pretty rare to have a pretty woman growing up in Laytonville and and uh, Mendo area. We're kind of like furry weird hippie men that do it You know, so someone in their 20s and 30s growing Um, supposedly there was this old vietnam vet that brought back some some seeds from vietnam And uh grew a bunch of hate and grew a bunch of sativas and started mixing them with local afghans and sort of had his own Which was really common at the time his own his own hill wheat right and then Um, he was retiring Because he'd done really well and he gave he gave her a few hundred seeds of his hill hill weed, right? and um She said that she found what got called the gdp in the first 50 seeds Yeah, right Later on she partnered. I helped her build it actually she partnered on a 66 slider with Ken estes Yeah, right. I can say his full name because he's he's well known Yeah, and she gave the cut to him Yep, she's a super anarchist had no interest in being public or anything like that Ken took it down to the bay and added his name to it Of course He's one of the first people I know of that added his name to a cut Yep You know later on other people started doing that taking cuts that weren't theirs and throwing their name on it as part of claiming it Yeah, um, and he's given some mangled versions of that story. I just told Yeah, because he didn't actually have any part to do with the origin story. He got it from my friend Yeah, and um the interview that I post all the time of ken telling his origin stories at first He says it was a a skunk from a vietnam vet that quickly turns into a native american gifted it to him in front of a Some headlights because he was such a wonderful white man Um, so it was pretty cool So he turned it into a seed line that he helpfully called ken's gdp Yep, um and all that and so But my version of it and I knew them at the time Was that she gave it to him? Yeah, and that you know, and this is back in the early 2000s or whatever when everyone wanted to stay invisible Especially if you were running 60 70 lights and off a generator in the woods Sure, and he decided to go down and flow it into the bay and flow it into third floor and flow it into various dispensaries And made a name for himself. Yeah So you can choose what you want to believe Yeah, about all that. Um, okay. Here's here's another one that ties straight into it and that's grape ape Kyle kushman's is it it was he the inventor? Was it bret bogh? From um apothecary. Was he the inventor of the grape ape? Who is who is the creator of grape ape? This might also get me in trouble But uh, so I'll say this okay, and I'll just let people decide.  So at first there was just mendo perps and urkel Then all of a sudden there was mendo perps urkel grape apes gdp platinum purple purple dragon On and on and on and on right? So Uh, some people think that grape ape came out of willets. Some people think that grape ape, um Was just a rename. Okay Um, but there's a gentleman, uh, you can find him on the internet. He his name's dallas Um, and he partnered with with uh, shilo and he claims that he flew it down from canada Uh in cigar cases and brought the grape ape to mendo So he claims that Kyle kushman had nothing to do with it other than kyle kushman moved to mendo And i don't remember o 506 or something like that and he came friends with dude and got it from him Very very very good for but kyle had absolutely nothing to do with it whatsoever if you want to give anybody credit. It's either renamed gdp or urkel bag seat of such or homey actually did that Yeah You know with a lot of these outlaw stories and stuff. It's kind of who you choose to believe I remember there was also the story that it was urkel sheba skunk as well And just that just went around with it I mean me and bodie both referred to it as urkel's pretty sister. It showed up After the purple craze was i mean i'll explain the purple craze for a minute when i mean the purple craze I mean that there was brokers coming up from the bay to mendo and saying we will buy every gram Of this purple weed that you can get your hands on Yeah, you have 50 of them. You have 80 of them. You have 150 of them. You have 250 of them.  I'm having some trouble moving my weed It's not going as fast as I want and the neighbor's like well I'll give you this cut and you just give it all to me Yeah, and i'll move everything you got of it Yeah, right so You know and then after a craze happens like that All these different names pop up, right? So, you know, it went from one or two purple strains to eight or ten of them within a year or two Yeah, and it probably would have lasted longer but sort of the kush The kush craze and the sour diesel thing happened And sort of pushed the purples to the side Yeah You know So that's all right Green crack also known as green kush with the sea Um I you know I I don't have a verifiable story Behind it, you know, I know people claim various things you might know more about it than I do that you might want to speak on it To me, it's some kind of skunk one.  Yeah, um Um, it was called green kush when it entered our circle and I got it through the hogs family circle Um, so it was originally whenever it was on the tags It was always c ush kush and no Cecil did not make green crack or have anything to do with it How Cecil's name entered it and me and Cecil went over this specifically Because I was one of the first people to bring green crack into seed form to the community and stuff So I wanted to hunt down the history on it And I had heard the same thing with Cecil his crew had a seed line called kush csh and That's as far as the connection went. It was that they both had renamed kushes And and they were both spelled c but that's as far as the connection went I think it's probably a skunk one type because it's super mango With a little bit of cold it would turn mega mega purple It also bred true for that purple trait and it would show up genetically as opposed to just with cold in its hybrids Um, I think I want to see it come back that it's one of those clones that was everywhere and now is nowhere all at once Um, I'll say the same thing I'll say the same thing about I said about blue dream You grow a four to six or seven ounce plant of green crack It's really nice weed Yeah, you grow a five or eight pound plant in the outdoor and beat the fuck out of it and don't dry it the right way Yeah, but you grow a little moderate size plant of it. It's got really nice lemony turps It's got a a unique kind of aroma to it. It gets it has a nice uplifting buzz It's very pretty it burns well Um, and someone mentioned it. I do think dna's lemon skunk is just a renamed green crack That they prettied up to breed with Probably I mean they were known for doing that I mean that when they started their company no offense to them or anything They just went around Mendo and Humboldt in various places and gathered up as many good clone onlys as they could Yeah, well they started their company as soma's little little Little buddies and he gave them a c99 that they renamed to uh, some sort of haze cantaloupe haze They believe they called it that yeah, so that they started their company off of uh, c99 and Renamed it and when you start your company that way it it There's no reason to start doing it the right way That's why I look at it The seed business has never been particularly honorable. No Yeah, um, we got hub's breath That's you buddy. Yeah, that was that was from our crew our sandiego crew. It was made by jimbo james hog rest in peace Um, he said several different things that it possibly could have been made His big one was a williams wonder hybrid Um, I think personally it was probably a skunk one some type of afghani wings wonder would fit wrong likes would fit of some sort Um, it could be foot funky cheese It had a lot of the similar thiollic smells of like a kim di or a Cheese and I've seen sweet hogs. It's it's it has very specific type growth traits on top Um, kind of fox tally a little bit on top. Um, yeah Uh, it wasn't allowed out of our circle for a long time and once it was it was out in everyone's hand So yeah, I think a lot of people are working with it now and the real real ones out there and Even though james is gone his family still runs the clothing company and grows it still pushes it So yeah, it's still out there and cool to be had there you go Yeah, um, here's yours headband Well, uh headband Headband used to be very mysterious Yeah, and because it was very mysterious in origin. It was supposedly came out of new york And there wasn't a lot of information about it Which allowed a lot of different people to be like this cut is the real new york city headband. Yeah Um, and so as a result, you know, I have an I have uh, I have an la cut.  Yeah, there's a there's a number of headbands Um, almost all of them are good smoke Right, um But then recently it's come out and some of the old sour crew Um has come out, uh and said that uh, um That you know the they had these cuts diesel one and diesel two which were bag seed Of some chem they were getting And um, they grew them out and there was a buddy of theirs in new york that thought that the diesel two Um made their made it feel like there was a band around his head after he smoked it And so they nicknamed it the headband and it so happens that Um that diesel two there's it so happens that that cut Uh That cut is the the seeds coming out of that cut is where the first Um is where the first sour diesel came from Yeah, okay, so then uh 707 headband the headband that I have that I call the la Um 707 is a child of that made by mambo brought Yeah, he crossed that to something that I'm not sure of Um, and then you know you get things like people were you know, there's people that Um, and who knows if that's there's there's there's people that um That think that have tried to say that the one that matt uses what I call the 56 Um is the original new york city headband and people advertised it at that duke had it They were they're him and his crew were big on saying it was the first headband Um, loompa was big on saying that his headband was the only real headband and everything else was a pale limitation um And then the sour people come out and start talking about it and it turns out that you know, um The headband they're speaking of that was the first one was not cush like at all. Yeah So it's one of those ones that um There was a lot of stories based on it because there was a bunch of mystery Um, and there's also a thing about that 56 day. I call it the 56 day just because that's It's like the least offensive nickname of it, but um that came out of the cush crew in southern california And it came up to the bay and they renamed it. Yeah intentionally Loompa's story is a bit shady Um to say at least he got to say the least and he got it and he got it and he decided to add his name to Yes, and ever since he's been extremely touchy About uh, that headband has to be the best headband and everybody else is just a bitch for trying to have as good of a headband as loompa headband Yeah, um, so it's really a muddled history. You know Every time we talk about it.   They think it's dead Yeah, and they're suspect that it could exist on the west coast So like a lot of things there's mystery Yeah, let's put it that way lumpas is There was one major claim that um duke had bought it from chem dog But I specifically asked chem dog about it and he said he's never grown headband. So that that's a problem I mean, I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure that when You know when uh duke and unhomie tried to work for your buddy matt and matt elite Yeah, that he got it in that little arrow when he was in colorado Yeah, and had no previous experience with it That cut that that he uses is a super super nice very potent cut Sure. Yeah, it's just it's just a kush cut and it's not diesel Yeah, it's not the original head definitely definitely and they and um, you know and uh Yeah, and lumpa's headband is is a is a cut that he got under suspicious circumstances And uh renamed it Yep after himself Yep, and uh meteo. Yeah, uh hemp hill worked with the elite crew dave. Yeah, so that would be duke Exactly what we're talking about Icy collective probably skunk va They all have that that that that cut kind of got pushed around the bay a bit. I think I got it. No six maybe um and uh, so Um, but yeah, I mean I it it it's not original headband Um, and yeah duke got it when he worked with matt elite and uh and bob hemp hill in colorado Yeah, I'm I'm not saying nothing. I get blamed for every time duke's names mentioned.   My main experience with it is uh via ncga's work with jack's cleaner I know sub cool, you know, he used it for um jack the ripper.  Um, I know that it was a big building block in sub cool's world Wasn't it? Yeah, uh, no. Yeah, I think maybe space queen I can't remember if killer queen was in space queen. I think it was Um, but it's not it's it's one of those you might have some stories about it. I don't have any personal You know, it's out of that grit. It's grim brother's grim, right? Yes. Oh, no. No. No. No. It's um, it's um vik Hi from vik. Hi. It's based on it's based on grim work. It's based on grim work I see 99 romulan. No, no, that's space queen. Hold on hold on bringing it back uh airborne g 13 c 99 romulan, I believe I'll say vik. Hi was um vik. Hi was one of the most well known Early early forum early internet weed personalities Yeah, he was a super nice cat Super smart super intelligent intelligent smart Really made a name for himself on the early forums and the overgrow and and cannabis world and and that whole era um, I never worked with it, but um It was uh, it you know, he he was very popular. He was a real smart cat. He helped a lot of people. He was nice Um, and so it got popular off that I believe Yeah, um Lone star who did the blue bonnet that I work with also had a killer cut of killer queen That would go around big yielder.  Um There was a killer queen that was later done with the supposedly the civic g 13 by moto rebel That was very different from the original killer queen But the original killer queen was a vc original and it's still used to this day. Um, yeah, it's it's it's a good one sweet lemon g lemon g uh lemon g is um You know, some people call some people call lemon g some people call lemon g 13 We have a really good buddy pip who cropped that one for years Yeah, it's kind of it's on that citrus level where uh You know, I I view most citrus is sort of two one note for me Yeah, you know, um, but it was a big yielding kind of ugly long running colas plant Um, and it's kind of one of those weeds that people love for two or three days and then get burned out on Yeah, yeah, I'm not I'm not a huge fan of it.  Um, it's not the prettiest bud No at all. No, it's kind of I would consider it Uh post cookie era. I would consider it ugly. It would yeah, it's very ugly. Um, So it burns not really heavily cropped.  It might be a skunk one and all five days. I can't remember But yeah, so like if that's the case, you know, I will say that, you know, when we talked to carel He was extremely honest and upfront about a lot of various different subjects Yeah, he did get a little cagey when I asked them about That and the basic five and if he got any seed stock from nevel Um, and sort of just called it by different names at the time Uh, he laughed and smiled and didn't say a whole lot You know, uh, so we didn't really get any specifics from it Um, but there's no indication that he got Um, that he got, you know, any private, uh, nl stock from anyone Yep, so, you know, what are you gonna say about that? Here's an interesting one the massachusetts super skunk Boy, so this one has been described in other podcasts and stuff quite a bit Yeah, um, it's got an enormous amount of confusion about it. It's a attained legendary status Uh, especially because some of the people that are involved in it are very famous Yeah, um, it was in high times Uh, and uh, especially since that rank, uh, roadkill skunk Seems to be the scam of the minute Where for the last five or six years people keep claiming that skunk their skunk turps are going to blow you out of the water And it's right around the corner um I had it Because the guy that went and got it from virginia, uh crew Brought it west. Yeah, um and gave it to you know, um You know when uh, when jerry garcia died and skunk va started growing He got the cut from my from our buddy Uh and started growing it. He posted some pictures of it on his page Um, I believe it's in sour diesel Um, you know, it's not really from massachusetts. It got dropped off there Uh by my buddy when he got the chem dog from dude Um, and what's interesting about it is that the cut When uh, when skunk va went east and got the chem d and brought it back when we gave when uh, great got the dog back um By that point, uh, according to according to uh, to our buddy. He had already lost it and the the, uh, massachusetts super skunk that they posted in the um in the uh High times was a lot shorter was a lot squatter was a lot different I believe is the mom of jeezal because jeezal is a spitting image of that one in I was going to bring that up in the sense that it's more than likely bag seed But it's one of those ones where nobody really wants to claim the truth on it Yeah, um a lot of people keep popping up swearing that they have it um A lot of ms. It's one of those ones where it's like there's a massive demand for it But I've never seen anyone that I grew it from Probably 90 I don't know late 90s to oh eight ish or something Uh, and uh, I've never seen a jar of it yet You know everyone that claims that they have rank skunk and it's going to pop in their seeds.  I will say This isn't super well known, but it is not pure superskunk either It was bred through various skunky things that ssc sssc had and neville had And then when neville released the superskunk they crossed that um that line that they already had to the superskunk And phenos of that are what became famous Yes, that's the latest The information that we got if one of our members of our crew got directly from the guy who bought or bred The mass super and there's an aspect where you know, there's like like we were just talking about with the headbands Mystery history allows various people to make wild claims thinking that it won't ever get popped up Um, it came out to california with my friend when the same time you brought the chem dog out And it survived amongst our crew and he grew it for some time Um, it went to colorado through that that breeders other friends and it got called skunk six out there After the the the number of the fiend of the number of the feno, you know that they were growing And it's got a lot of legend to it You know, it's probably in it's probably in my opinion. It's probably in kim d. It's probably it's deaf I think it's in sour And a lot of people want it and it seems to not exist Uh, you know, maybe it exists in various forms. We'll see maybe it pops up one day, but Um more people have been excited about selling the name Then making sure they have it In my opinion people have been excited about selling the name so I will say one other thing that uh You know, uh neville always said that his two best selling things were super skunk and uh an nl5 haze Yes, so there's probably a lot of super skunk out there blended into various things I think that I personally think that super skunk is A lot of what people refer to as skunky dank Um that went around in their area was probably a feno super skunk I'm I'm damn near convinced of this after seeing stuff like the old p91 Um my heirloom afghani line just an old afghani line that happened to be from florida It's very super skunk like um the clockwork cut Um all kinds of shit around me was super skunk.  It was incredibly stinky It was only moderate potency.  Someone else is holding it Someone else is holding it and now it's like You know People can't find it, you know, so But uh, it exists in a lot of children. I definitely think it's in sour diesel. I can smell it in sour I can even see it in sour diesel Yeah, there you go.   Yes, right and uh When I was on dead tour, there was a buddy of ours that was from alaska And was on tour and he would go home to alaska in between tours Yeah, and I gave him one time.   I think that's like everyone's story that I've met there's a lot of people from alaska that I think are very convinced that you know The matt nuska thunder fuck that they had was the original and the only and they can tell you all about it You know who grew it who made it et cetera et cetera, but there's a lot of stories like that and I think that it I think they're probably all telling their own truth. You know what I mean I will say too that uh, the the package that I got mailed was mailed from denali alaska post office Yeah, which was pretty funny Yeah, that is funny. Yeah Now yeah, so Uh, but I thought I got ripped off for months because I gave him 1200 bucks And I didn't see any weed for months And he kept his he kept the funny thing about that.  It was like he's like, bro hugest THC numbers ever and it's called the matt nuska valley thunderfuck, you know, and he had this big tale of of uh You know this very special potent weed that was out there in alaska You know, and I was always trying to figure out more about this thing And as I as I kept digging deeper and deeper I learned that there were several people with several claims to several Thunderfucks out there the more you dig into it the wider the story becomes Yeah, let's put it that way lots of bikers involved in most of them Let's put it that way So it's hard to say if it was a one thing or it was just a regional name like Maui.  Have you ever heard that? No Okay, and I talked I've talked I've talked to almost everyone at length in the sour diesel original family You know And I I I never heard cock diesel, but you know, there you go Yeah, I don't know why that's in my memory bank, but yeah, that's one of the names of my memory bank Maybe that's a secret they kept amongst the boys. Yeah, just a few at the boys The boys, you know, yeah, just a few just a few of the bros Okay, so we're almost two hours in and we are only like A portion of the way through this list So it'll probably be a few episodes Well, keep it going historical Yeah, um, I think that'll be fun. Um, I need to announce a few things. We have breeder syndicate 2.0 up So the the audio podcast is back. It's rolling A lot of new things are rolling with that So it's available on any podcast software. Make sure you look for the new logo. It's white and pink right now We're developing some other new logos that are pretty cool. We have a lot of new cool things going on with it We have the breeder syndicate patreon where we all hang out. You can come hang out with us there Um, we have a discord and we're there all the time taking questions For seeds, there's riot seeds.com. Um, we have my seeds and my reversal spray available Not so anything you want to plug I'm not really big on plugging publicly I mean, I will say like as always that like I uh, I'm super stoked that everybody likes to listen We're definitely trying to bring like culture and history That's mostly what we're into. I think a lot of like podcasts end up being sort of like infomercials about people Which isn't necessarily bad, but like there's a lot more diversity in cannabis world cannabis culture You know historical That isn't like just about making people look good, you know So we are I always appreciate people coming out, you know And uh, you know, you always can reach you can always reach me through dm on ig You can always reach me on uh, I answer a lot of questions I try to get to everyone. Sometimes I get I get swamped You know, I have a life too and stuff like that, but um, you know, we are we are thinking about Um, you know, one of the reasons why we talk about some of these old things is that we think they're going to make a comeback Perhaps I am thinking about, uh, you know doing some like, uh doing some, you know I've never been really a public breeder And I'm mad has been trying to convince me to open myself up to lots of criticism and hate and people throwing things at me I write his I write his phone number in every bathroom stall. I can't You know, so people so but then there's a lot of things that like, you know I've always bred for stuff that I love and so I don't know. Um, I've been thinking about maybe You know doing some uh Doing or releasing some stuff that might be very different than what is currently out there Um, and I don't know if people would be into it or not, but it's it's always been sort of a you know A passion thing for me or whatever.  We got pretty far in but there's a lot that like people are talking about that I've been writing down that I want to go back and touch on to There was I will say there was a there was a shit ton of really good questions This week a lot of them I missed because it's you might it's like rubbing your head and patting your stomach at the same time It's really hard to like talk intelligently in a flowing form And then think about like four or five cool questions all at the same time that you see scroll by So, uh, matt's been taking notes We'll try to get we'll try to expand it and this show is you know as much as that It's about us talking about random weed shit that we do all week anyway It's for you guys too So hit us up all the time with questions or you know or ideas or thoughts on like what you might want to hear You know, um, yeah, and I mean i'm not i'm not like that that's the whole thing people You know, uh, Caleb matt other people they've been trying for years to not only get me to talk But to get me to like publicly release stuff And it's like it's kind of a bitch being a public reader So i've been kind of hesitant to like open myself up to like a bunch of criticism and assholes Um, but I might I don't know, you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of uh, there's a lot of cool things I think that get passed over with fads Yeah, so, you know We are almost at two hours. So I don't know. I mean, maybe we could we're thinking about having shawn next week That's right. We could continue this. Um, we could you know, two hours is kind of long Um, but maybe we'll figure out a format to do the rest of them fairly soon Yeah, yeah, I like that idea and if you're part of the patreon and um the discord And you want to give us some other ideas for other clones you'd like to hear about from that era Just throw it up in there. We'll see it Yeah, I mean this gourd is definitely a much easier way for us to converse back and forth, especially individual You know, so um, you know, you don't have to but it just it's it's easier You can always reach out to ig but sometimes I get buried. Yeah So there you go All right, well, thank you everyone and uh, Yeah, no, we try to keep it in two hours. So we'll we'll keep this going I'm glad everybody liked chatting about old stuff as always. We super appreciate your Friday night Um, and everyone have a killer weekend. Yeah. Cheers