Hello everybody. If it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer. And that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer weekly joining me as always, but not much lately is my co-host Tyler. What's up, buddy? How are you doing? It's all like, it's so weird. Yeah. Doing this. I had to figure out the setup. Make sure you could hear me. It's, and I came in the last time. It was just you and me. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah. It's good to have you back. I know you were a little under the weather for a little while, but you're back now. You're looking, you're looking good. You're looking strong, hail and hearty, ready to go. So we're still going in opposite directions. You skinnier, me, me, me, something different. So I've got to work on that. I'm going to bring that up every time. Nothing. I'm trying. We got more work to do. But today we're going to talk about specifically a project you've been working on, Tyler. Yeah. Specifically, we're going to talk about new battle plans. We're going to talk about war coda and Tyler, you've done this once before. So you're going to introduce a rich new series of battle plans to our ecosystem and allow people to play with these. So that's very exciting. One of the things, I know you said you hadn't caught up on the show last week, trying to understand you were under the weather. No, no issue there. And so a lot of people reached out to me. Hey, did you see the show? See the show? See what Vince or Tom and they're doing a lot of complaining. Like, well, that's, that's, that's a big part of their stick. That is a big part of our stick. Yeah. When Tom and I get together, but you know, it's funny because one of the things that we talked about on the show last week was the criticality of battle plans. Like, in my mind, it is the central most important thing. I really believe in the importance of scenarios of battle plans of having interesting things to do of having them be like having lots of options and dynamism. I was a big proponent like last week of no matter what happens to the GHB, they should publish additional battle plans and like as like a mid-year update for free for events, like put out another event pack, a mid-year or something for free, right? Like that kind of stuff. And so because they've refused to do what we say, even though we're clearly right, Tyler has stepped in here at the mid-year point to introduce a new suite of exciting battle plans that harken back to battle plans of your with some, some new twists and flavors mixed in as well. Yeah. Yeah. Very much based upon like pretty much all of these are based around past GHBs, you know, twist updates, refreshes. Yeah. So love it. So that's what we're going to talk tonight. But of course, first the news. The news. All right. We got a, we've got a long news segment here. We do get through this rumor engine, which I talked about it and I hadn't pulled up. So while I'm doing that, you want to tell me what you think it is? Oh, yes, that's fine. We can jump over here to the rumor engine. I'll also answer a question in the chat. Neil asks, Hey, guys, I have a question. If I use other giants in a sun's army, does size matter? I assume you mean like off brand giants? No, not really. You want them on the base is what matters. They need to be on that 130 mil round. I mean, that being said, it would be funny if you use like an old school little tiny metal giant on that giant base. It's going to look kind of dumb. But no, you could like, there's plenty of other third party giants that are like slightly smaller or slightly bigger. And that's all fine. As long as you're on the right base, nobody's gonna, nobody's gonna care. Okay, cool. All right.  It's a cloak with some some stains on it. There you go. That's what it is. I don't care what it is, because it's a slightly raggedy cloak. It could literally be hundreds of things in any range. Yeah. All right. Very good. This is one of the least exciting rumor engines in the history of rumor engine. That's really saying something. So we've got armies on parade returns. We do. We do armies on parade is back. They're talking about getting ready now. Apparently no golden demon. That's the rumor going around. We'll see we will report it live whenever we get confirmation on that. But no, that doesn't say it in the UK this year or whatever. But who knows what's gonna happen? And the, I guess, well, time will tell. But we do have an army zone parade. And so they, you know, talking about setting up your board showed some of the past winners that people are interested in that sort of thing. Hey, get into it. It's going to be a good time. Always love to see the full armies display. It's one of the reasons we play this game. You have a beautiful army all laid out and stuff. So yep. Beautiful army. I'm gonna be good. I don't need to be bad. Like just a few minutes into the show. You can do whatever you want. Okay. All right. So old world PDFs and fact. That's right. So the old world PDFs for the other nine armies or whatever it is that aren't like the legacy armies, I guess is what they're calling them. Okay. Not official stuff. But like it's it's there. You can use it. How long is it fully playable? Who knows? It won't be acceptable in GW events. But my guess is most other TOs will allow it completely without issue. So this is stuff like Dark Elves and Skaven and Chaos Warbs and so on and so forth. So those all came out. And yeah, all looking good. I mean, like I said, we will do some army shows in the future on some old world armies. I'm already I'm already cooking a little on that. But then they also had an FAQ and Tyler have to say their FAQ was really good. It was really good. First of all, it was an FAQ now in a book with 200 and 50 pages of rules two five zero. You think you'd cover everything you need to cover. But no, of course, there still has to be an FAQ is no game can ever be perfect. And that's fine. We wouldn't I wouldn't expect to do surprisingly very light on any kind of errata, not really much in the way of changes or anything like that. It was mostly just clarifications. You know, it gets into like some of the silliness and goofiness you're dealing with, with the sort of like rank and flank and quote unquote, realistic games or whatever like that the heck that even means. You know, like, so I'll give you a funny example from the FAQ Tyler, you're ready. Here we go. One of the rules out of the old world is if you're on a hill, you basically you can see over things. You can see over other troops. It gives you clear line of sight. They do have very nice terrain rules in the old world. Okay. And but then the question came up of can multiple units on a hill see over top of each other? So what if both units are on the hill? Right? Sure. And the way hills are is just like in actuality. It's like a flat thing poop, right? Like it's it's you've you've seen the old hills right when they were still used. And their answer was whoever's closest to the center can see over everybody else and then so on from there. No, I'm sick. Like literally you're up on like, they were like, imagine it's a real hill. Now, where is the person standing? Can you see over the person in front of you? Right? Which is a funny answer. No, but like logical, I guess, simple enough. It would be funny to measure like the center of this hill. But they also had some good comedy, good spirit, good jokes in the FAQ. They actually gave like a lot of detailed responses, not just no or yes, they would say like, yes, and this is why, which I very much appreciated. So good, thank you writing there. Yeah. Yeah, we've had a lot of those no answers in the past. Yeah, I hate that. I've just I have lambasted that for years. Give an explanation. Tell people how you're thinking and that will help alleviate future questions. Yeah. One thing I was curious whether they saw I've got a lot of warm weekly content to catch up on some have been on the show in a while. The I was curious with the rules.  No. Yeah, like how AOS does still technically in the core rules that is still technically in the core rules. But no, that's good to hear. So sadly, that's no hanging off the side of buildings. So unfortunately, what's next? That's more old world stuff. Orks and goblins. That's right. The OGs orks and goblin tribes.  Nothing new here in this in this box set.  Still look pretty good, man. I was surprised at how well, at least my opinion, some of those hold up there. They're okay. They're okay.  Like those goblins heads, if you blew them up to like actually be the size they're supposed to be, they would be terrifying solely based on the size of their heads. So, so, you know, there you go. But hey, that's cool. The important part about this is this also means the release of their expandopedia. So you'll get the additional rules for orks and goblins. And there was also two new characters. So they're new. These are both in resin. But you got this guy. So two new sculpts. And this guy's pretty great. Looks very much in line with a lot of what we've seen recently out of both like honestly, 40k and fantasy orks. So always fun. It's always funny to me how we all just accept that orks next work differently than human necks. Okay. Like a human's head sits here on top of their body. And we all are fine with that.  And we're just like, Yeah, yeah, there we go. No, no Hades, I did not do an LBO show because there was nothing really to talk about. We'll talk about it a little at the end. But I think this guy looks great. He's really, I really like a lot of these old world models they're making man. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, looking good. They this is a little busier than some of the other stuff. But you could you could change that I would give her these two little spikes on his back. I don't like that thing. I like the core model. I think he's really good.  This guy is great. This guy has so much character.   This is one of my favorite orc sculpts they made in a long time. I think it's really good. So quite sweet. Yeah. And then the one goblin putting the other goblin in the pot. It's just good stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, good. So Expandopedia. Are you talking about the Arc Arc what Arcane journals? Yes, correct. Arcane journals. Yes. Yes. Which gives you like special characters and alternative army lists and stuff like that. Think of it like your armies are renowned for iOS like we're getting in the Dawnbringer books. That's basically what you get in there. Like, Hey, here's your army of exiles or your, you know, in two cases, like, here's your priest armies. If you want to be the mortuary cult or something is out of the normal army. So yeah. Very cool. Alright, so we have not had the LVO reveals discussed yet. I don't think you did a show. LVO meals. So yeah. Looks like you've got Zandra's grave breakers listed here first. That is correct. This is the new Death Gorge, the, the newest underworlds thing. Here's a fun thing. Tyler. Yeah. What was the original Warhammer Underworlds subtitle name? The version one. I remember it was yeah, it was Stormcast and Skellies. No, no, not who was in it. What was the name? Like this is Warhammer Underworlds, Perrin's or sorry, Colin Death Gorge. Okay. Okay. What was it was Warhammer Underworlds, Colin? What? Yeah, I don't know. I can't remember. Yeah, it's so funny because it was Shadespire and when it initially happened, we all just wanted to call it that all the time. Okay. And then but eventually they went out. They just kept switching the names and now it's it's Underworlds like they they got it to stick. I really thought of them. Yeah. You know, into like version two or three, we kept calling it Shadespire. That's right. Yeah. Don't forget about that. Yeah. But now, yes, Death Gorge, the longest and the newest name they're naming convention of naming these things vaguely sexually. And this is like, yeah, some some interesting zombies. I mean, it's certainly a unique cast of characters. I'll say that. Mm hmm. So yeah, not too bad looking. We've got what else we have the new dock. Yeah, that chrome model. That's kind of sweet. There she is. Uh prone hag. Yeah. So and her backstory is like she's the one who she sees through Marathi's like both illusions and lies. She's like a she's a seer, right?  And she's not she's not down with that. So she's kind of a antithesis to what Marathi is doing. So yeah, that's a sweet model. Yeah. Pretty pretty interesting. The hair over the face thing with just like a little bit of her showing and all of that. So yeah, she's okay. I'm going to be honest. A lot of people went nuts for this figure. I'm like, okay, with that. Yeah. It's fine. There it is. First one of the night. It's fine. It's fine. I think this is going to be our last book, book five. Good question. So yes, of course, she is leading a force into Dawn bringers book five shadow of the crone. I don't know. I don't know. This doesn't feel like the capper, right? It's got the the shadow connection. Obviously, you know, we're expecting to go into a realm of shadows with the new edition, all of that. But yeah, maybe maybe one more after this. I mean, seemingly, we've got time for it. I mean, I feel like there's still a book six on the other side of this. Like we're we're going deep. Okay. I just like this doesn't feel like, oh yeah, the epic conclusion to the dawn bringer story is a is a is a weird sub story about doc about this new lady who we've never heard of before. Right? Yeah. That just that's weird. It's fair. So I feel like there has to be a book six on the other side of this and that book six is like called chaos rising or corgis is revenge, Cole's revenge or you know, to slay the god beast or you know, the epoch of ascension or something like that. You know, lots of fun games you could come up with but chaos related stuff. So totally. Yeah, we talked a lot about that. Yeah, the expectation that there's going to be. Yeah, one of these really, really dedicated around cool and everything. And so yeah, I'll make a lot of sense to conclude with that. I agree. And you know, Cygnus Maximus said, I do wish they do one of these books every six months throughout the addition rather than shoehorning them into the end. I agree. I wish these things were just like constant narrative cool stuff happening throughout the the addition. Gareth said flight of flight of the Valkia. Yes, quality. I dig it. There you go. The bigger hit. Yeah, that would have a lot better pacing about it than absolutely crime and everything in here. Oh, what else did we have? We've got, let's see, Dombing book five. We had callus callus and toll. Yeah, callus and toll. Oh yeah, I didn't put them in there. Yeah, but they're also yeah, we got the callus and toll models too. I didn't even get to grab them. They're fine. They're cool. Pretty good. They have like a warband. It's fine. I like callus and toll a lot. I honestly was not super impressed by those models. That's proud. That's why it slipped my mind that they were there. So, but it's fine. They're good. It's also the warcry box with the night haunts and the expected river sub or whatever it's the what's that called the elementary. I think those are called, you know, yeah, yeah, let's talk about that. So yes, we have the new callus and toll models in there and their warband, which were okay. Put it in the chat if you disagree. Who was here's what I want to know chat people watching this who was really into the callus and toll warband. Like, are you picking that up? That's a must buy for you. So, okay, I'm legitimately curious because they're very popular characters, but I don't know something about the sculptures didn't land for me. Now, and then, yes, you're the river folk versus the fiery ghosty boys, right? Yeah. What did you think about that? What did you think about that box? I mean, I really love the night haunts.  But I, yeah, I think they're very dynamic. I love how they're painted. They look great. Looks to be a sign of what generally was expecting a night hunt expansion that we're going to be seeing. Maybe this year, but certainly in fourth edition. And then the river looks pretty good. Seeing them up close, these LRL models, they look better than yeah, the initial photos. I don't know.  How small these models are in details. But yeah, I think some of them are pretty nice. Yeah, the LRL that had the full like Voorhees hockey masks and the armor. Right. Yes. Cool. The ones that were in like suspenders and jumpsuits where they're like, well, time to go out and fish in the river. It's just like, okay. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I don't know. A lot of people coming out, by the way, for the spy mistress in Callus and Toll's Warband, which I will agree with everybody there. The best model in that whole cohort was weird old spy lady with her like weird cat. That was the, that was the standout model. I don't disagree with that. So like I, we are, we are in alignment chat on saying that that's like the killer model for all of those who thought that was the one in the group. It was just Callus and Toll themselves. I don't know, man. Something about it was just like, yep, that's okay. There they are. I don't know. Yeah. But overall, yeah, we didn't do a show because I was like, okay, that's fine. It wasn't anything that exciting.  Like the next book that we knew we were going to get, I didn't expect it to be like a doc crone lady with hair covering her eyes, but you know. Right. But we thought it was going to be that Chaos book. Right. Yeah. But nothing really, nothing blew me away that I was like, well I got to call up Tom and Tyler at 1 a.m. and we're going to do a reaction show. Right. So, you know, that's fine. All right. Well, speaking of LVO, we had the largest age of Sigmar Grand Tournament ever in the eight years of this lovely game. Yes. I think they ended up like 360, something like that. I think they had 378 registered and somewhere in the 360 is playing at the start of the day of maybe it was 380s registered. I don't know. It was huge. Absolutely huge. But yes, biggest in history. Huge event obviously with a like five full rounds and then the split around and then the top eight cut for the final day there and everything. So, yeah, effectively you could have, it's possible you play nine games of Warmer. They don't think anybody actually did because I don't think that's glitter game is how it worked. Don't remember. There you go. Garrett said 343 players, 416 tickets sold. Thank you, Garrett. Much appreciate it. I'm just going to give a shout out to all the TOs, the Hardwork and TOs who were running that massive event. You know who you are looking right at you. And it was absolutely just a heroic effort and everything I heard was that it was it was run very well, very clean. Everybody had a great time so and that's because of the incredibly hard work. Oh, there you go. Gavin did play all nine. Okay, cool. There you go. Nice. Gavin had to play nine. Boy, that is an that is the baton death march of Warhammer. Like, I'll tell you what, three games, three days in a row. Woof. I love Warhammer. I don't think I love Warhammer that much. I really don't. I really don't. I think we did my limit. We've been talking for a while. We really got to get him on the show. I've talked with him in the past and I love his takes on Twitter sometimes. He'll write these tweets and just spot out. He had one today or the other day. That was that was just perfect. Now, if history serves my memory correctly, I believe I believe so you're saying you now know. I now know who he is. Who Gavin is. Yes. Okay, got it. Right. You know, he only had to win ITC a couple of times and go 50 a couple dozen times. This is like this one honest mistake you made one time in your life. One time, right? Just absolutely will not let it go. And he wonder why I'm so, yeah, trying to be careful and sometimes that's what I said. I beat him to it. Yeah, we were both we were both coming for you immediately. Speaking of the winner, let's talk about it a little bit here. I've got the list. This is Jeremy who was the winner. Jeremy played Gavin in the finals. It was a cities on cities throwdown orders galore being bandied about or as I call them trap cards command point to electric boogaloo. So you want to take a shot at that last name of Jeremy's? Nope. Sure don't. Sure do not. Rob nailed it on his show. How is it pronounced? I'm because I actually don't know. Okay, that's fine. I agree. I'd love to have Jeremy on the show as well.  I don't want to do it to a perfectly nice guy who just won. That's not cool. But this was this list, which I thought was a very good list. It's very, it's very nice. It wasn't, I think, what people expected. You know, absolutely no shade thrown at Gavin, but I think he was playing the thing more people had been talking about. I don't, again, that's not a negative in any way. Please do not read any connotation into that. But it was like this this tank heavy list, right? So lots of steam tanks, stuff like that. And but this, the in the mist oven with banners held high is the strat, which has ended up being how we clinched it, right, by the grand strat. Yeah, they were 1818. And then, yeah, Jeremy got the grand strat, Gavin was not able to. We had, we had the Warforger, you know, Haskell Hexbane, who saw that coming, hot pic there. I like that. Zanestra, who I think obviously you're gonna, you know, the Warforger and Zanestra are pretty much what you'd expect. The Marshal on Griffin, you see in a lot of play, you do see him around quite a bit as a mobile piece, especially in these most common lists. Yep. Such a good hammer. Yeah. Absolutely. The Cavalier Marshal, Steel Helms, Cavies, Cavies, the Wilder Corpse Hunters, Hexbane's Hunters, and then the Van Dents, and two, two, two, Count them, Free Guild Command Corps, a thing that should not be legal, but is still somehow legal to only allow to allow two Free Guild Command Corps. GW, listen, talking directly to you from now on. This is on the bingo card. When I make that bingo card, this is absolutely on the bingo card talking to GW. All right. From now on, when you make a unit, and it's a unit of weirdo idiosyncratic goobers, okay? Limit one, they're unique because how many of these groups of idiosyncratic weirdo goobers are just floating around the cities, waiting to join up in the exact same combination of idiosyncratic weirdo goobers?  Like, we're all, everybody's, hey, everybody, did you bring your one assassin, your one healer, your one this and that? Like, stop it. How many of these strange D&D parties are just floating around with the exact same construction ready to join? I hate it. I hate it.  So, oh, there you go, yes.  Yes, thank you. It helped out Gareth was running a narrative event since he comped it, so that you could not double up on the healing on a unit. So thankfully, that helped out, you know, he's on board with the Midwest culture nowadays, I guess. Confing things. Absolutely. He's his own rulings, right? Well, he's clearly ready to go his own way, but the, look, the reality is, yes, that's good. I think that's a nice step in the right direction. It's still unbelievably oppressive to have multiples of these things that can both pass out their healing. You've got the command point thievery going on left. 75%. Yeah. Yeah, like, it's, it's rough. What do you say? I'm not checking comments. I'm watching it. Yeah, his response was, you are dead to me. Solid. At any rate, this is a great list. I really like it. Obviously, the Cavaliers are very strong. He could, you know, he, even though he couldn't heal the same unit, he could heal each unit of Cavies to make sure they're staying in the fight. They hit hard. The movement in this list is absolutely incredible just because, you know, like Ms. Havin with that extra 2D6 movement, like it's just absolutely fantastic. You've got so many mounted things here that can take advantage of that. He's got it set up. It's great. Sorry to interrupt. You're emphasizing the mobility, right? So, it's set up, I mean, a lot of people might know, but you can do triple activation with that setup. So, yeah, Ms. Havin, right? Two by five Cav, your free guild martial, your free guild Cavalier martial, and your one on Griffin. So, that could be, yeah, one by five Cav, the one on horse, and one on Griffin, triple activation before your opponent does anything. Just a really fast, powerful, yeah, strong hammer that can blow through screens, right? Multiple layers, and so, yeah, really interesting list. I love that number. I mean, one thought I had, I'm guessing, one of the reasons why he leaned into that many heroes, you know, those kind of kind of heroes. So, obviously, there's some orders, exactly, to give out orders, like countercharging, the ability to tie up. I did see this in the game against Scott Gavin. He was able to use those little small heroes at times to tie up steam tanks with the countercharging. That was really interesting. Yeah, yep, absolutely. You know, it's just like, it's that kind of stuff. I really love a list like this. I really like how he played, like, not only how he played this, this is certainly done by a really, really top player, but it's also just like a really creative list in the way it can answer the problems that are there that are in the meta. So, yeah, I'm a big fan of it. Obviously, Zynestra herself is a powerhouse and able to answer a lot of things and cause a lot of chaos all by her lonesome, especially when she gets out of, you know, particular, out of her starting zone and can start double, double chanting. So, you know, it's good. Well, while the core is a great choice, especially for, you know, LVO that has institutionalized, as many events have, you know, wildwood slash obscuring. So, you know that you're always going to have at least two out of the eight terrain pieces that you can take advantage of that. You're going to have, you know, some flat services to take advantage with Wildcat Core to make them not visible, extra rent on the shooting. Yeah, that's anyway. Yeah, amazing list. It was, did you take a look at like the top 10, top 20? I thought we had pretty good diversity in what was shown up. It was okay. It was okay. I looked at the top eight. I didn't look beyond the top eight. So, and, you know, a lot of names you'd expect to be up there and using some lists that I expected to be there. Of course, you know, we had Mr. Tom Guant, the legend himself up there in the top eight with his zombie spam, Soul Blight. Still, still rocking it. You know, in many ways the big boy has never left. He's always offered the same great brains at affordable prices. Okay. It turns out they don't like five steam tanks. It really, really don't like. It turns out, yeah. But, yeah. Yeah, it's just like, and it was an amazingly close thing. We did have, oh, yes, exactly. There you go. The cruel boys showing up in the top eight. So, yeah, a couple, couple really great finishes there. Still, still, I do think it wasn't, don't get me wrong. It wasn't bad. This is certainly, we had a lot better mix than we had in sort of the, you know, early days when you look at or some of the dark times throughout various parts in AOS, when it was like, I mean, you and I were both there at the dark times at the end of 2019, early 2020 when it was just like, you look at the top eight and it was just like, oh, five zinselists or whatever, right there. Okay, cool. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So, there have been worse, but you know, there's still some armies that clearly need some love, but overall, I was happy. It seemed like an incredibly fun tournament, or as I said, I heard nothing, but positive feedback from everybody who attended. So, if only LVO wasn't in Vegas, I might actually go to it sometime, but you know, that's just, that's a real stickling sticker for me, stickler. Anyways, all right, I think that's all of our news. We got through it. Yep. All right. Long news section. Let's go to some pick of the week. Tyler, start us off, buddy. Yes, sir. I've got a reasonable two. So, I'm forgetting the gentleman's name. He's Warfight Minis, the guy who runs Warfight Minis, a sponsor, Season of War, pretty well known. I had just come across it when I was sick. So, I did get a little bit of YouTube watching in and he has a great channel. So, he has gone to a number of GTs, good players, and playing Skaven. He is really good at gaslighting, as many Skaven players are, including you, about the Ferris Army and Warhammer rights and how it's so hard to do well with this army that has all these amazing tools like the screaming bells and, you know, 20 Plague Sensor Bears. And anyway, so I don't want to talk about the busted list. Playing, playing a Skaven list. Yes, it became, we're, for a long time it held the title of the Ferris List and Ferris Army in Warhammer and then certain things conspired to make it so now it has lost that title, like honestly, because now it's just, it's just a silly army that sits there with a bunch of bells around it and then Plague Sensor Bears are counter-charged.  Yeah, dude, I played, anyway, yeah, I played against this Skaven list a few weeks ago. It wasn't exactly that, but it's like, oh my god, there's, it was a really good player piling. There's like no good outs here with, with the setup and all the different pieces. And it was interesting to see, but yeah, anyhow, I'm, I'm half joking, but he, the channel is fantastic. The guy needs more subscribers, like, I think historically there's not been enough great in-depth analysis of how to play AOS well on YouTube and in general. Like, I think we still, it's certainly not coming from this show. It's more true than not.  I think if I haven't said it yet, I believe he wanted to come open, maybe some others. Anyway, amazing channel, really enjoying it. So that's the first one. And then week and decadent, they did the very first war cut at 2.0 battle report. So I just wanted to shout that out. That was last week. Very nice. There'll be more coming from different channels. Love it. We can decadence in the chat. Everybody should go check it out. Check out both those links. They are linked down below because Tyler is responsible and sent me the links in advance. So there you go. All right. So there it's, it's down in the chat, Dougie Fresh and Kyle, but do you want to repeat both of the channels? Yeah, warp fire minis. So warp fire, one word, minis and then week and decadent. Yeah. So the, for my pick of the week, I'm actually going to be a little selfish here. All right. Good buddy Rob over at the miniatures paint brush. He, he did a battle report for tanks for the apocalypse for the most recent game that Adam and I released. So if you want to see that, that's that you can find tanks in our new zine snarl, which you can find also linked down below. But you can find the link to that battle report. So if you want to see how tanks for the apocalypse plays, it's a very fun fast game. And that is, that is linked down there. So you can check out Rob's channel. And if you want to see snarl, only eight bucks to pick up the PDF with that and has additions for both rain and hell and space station zero in it. You find that link too. So there you go. A little self serving pick of the week for me for sure. But also shout out Rob, who is a really, really great guy and has a very fun channel. Okay. So let's let's talk about some hobby time. Tyler, how goes it, man? We're into 2024. Here we are. Right. I'm working on terrain. So making some progress on terrain. That's got me distracted. I think I've already told you this. I figured Paul Castro has been amazing as always. And I need to actually start painting some of the train that's been in my garage for too long. So I'm still working on that. I'll have photos at some point. Been getting a lot of games in with Legion of Knights. Absolutely loving it. It's nice. My friend actually have people complaining about my army. Like I've really missed that. The only thing people complained about last year was sloppity. I wasn't even running a Glocken or you know, spamming play bears. It's just it was just running sloppity and people were complaining. But now give them a reason to complain. Exactly. So what's your what's high level? What have you been running? What's the list look like? So it's a quick flyover. Highland theme, Legion of Night. Soul Blight, especially Legion of Night is great for Highlander. So a lot of similarities with, I'd say, Ronja's list. As it turned out, I kind of ended up with a lot of the pieces that she did. So Manfred with Waste of Way, Lough of Eye with Vile Transference, the Vampire Lord on Foot with Unbending Will Command Trade, Summonable Countess 2 for 1 on objectives. And it's just models. It's not in Holy within Holy within 12 for models, not even the whole unit. Amazing. So you can move around your Vampire Lord in the battlefield through the Swift Form Heroic Action that, for some reason, is every hero phase and drives everybody that I've played crazy. Sure. Yeah, giving that 2 for 1. And then Necromancer with Blizzard, of course. So those are in the Acolytes Battalion for the extra goodies. And then 20 Zombies, 10 Skellies, 10 Puppies, 3 Vargas, 3 Bats, 20 Grave Guards. I tried to avoid the 20 Grave Guards. And apparently it's about impossible with the Great White Blades because that unit just destroys the world. Sure.  Anyway, man, it's strong that turns out Legion of Nights is very strong. I love it. For myself, my hobby time. Sadly, I didn't get to play a game this last weekend because I had my, I have a monthly remote D&D game. So I've been playing a game just not Warhammer, sadly, but that's okay. I have finished up a couple of additional Bretonian Nights to add to to a to a landslide to continue to, yeah, they're fun, right? It's fun. Bretonians just, you know, a simple, nice, split color scheme is always very aesthetically appealing. It's not that, they're not that complicated to do. It's nice, a little fun. It's relaxing. Like legitimately painting these old nights, the realm is a very relaxing thing. Yeah. Because they're not, they're not the most complicated figures by far. So, you know, two little nights, got those guys done and they'll join their brethren in the lance. And then also, I've finally returning to work on this girl from Hardcore Miniatures. This is the 75 millimeter plague sister. And I still, I've rectified a lot of my mistakes from the earlier go at her. And like I had, I had messed something up so significantly it caused such an amount of rework that honestly, I just, like I started reworking it and then set her to the side because it was just kind of like, I can't, like I couldn't build up the, I was like, I'll work on something else. I'll work on something else. I'll work on something else. Right. Like I just, I kept not going back to it. Now though, I've almost got her, there's only one more thing I need to correct from my previous screw ups. And she's getting to a place where I'm feeling really good. So, I think I'm like, finally, I think I've built back up the, the impetus to keep going with it. So, so that's exciting. And, and then I also finished a really big project that I still can't talk about, but everybody will see at some point in the future. So there you go. How often do you mess up a model in a meaningful way? It depends. Like decently often, you know, okay. Like I, I, when I say mess up, which have to under, like what I mean there is not like, Oh, oops. I got paint somewhere. I didn't mean to get it or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I painted it and it was compositionally incorrect. Okay. And when I, I couldn't figure out why and I looked at it and I was like, I can't crack this. And so I went to a couple of other people and bounced it off of them and they were like, well, this and this and this is what you did wrong. And I was like, oh, yep. And then as soon as they said it, it was like puzzle piece, snapped into place. But it required a significant amount of rework. And how often does that happen? Still pretty often. You know, I don't, I don't know that you ever get to a place where you don't need to bounce ideas off of, of other, other people. Yeah.  And every, it's a brand new model. So there you go. All right. So. And I just popped my head. Have you already done that show with Hay-Woe and, and Miss Mephisto with Meph? We did. Or yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. It was going to keep an eye out for the YouTube video whenever that comes out. Yeah. We did it on whatever his VOD was and it went out on Twitch. I don't think he's put it on YouTube yet. So, so. Okay. Sweet. It was very fun show. Are you guys talking about what was that? Oh my God. I mean everything. All kinds of things. Okay. Yeah. Like classic, classic that three of us get together and just travel through other topics. Yeah. Yeah. It's always, oh, it's always fun. You, the three of you. So. We covered a lot of topics. Yeah. Dougie Fresh, you guys think we'll get Kiss, Lever, Cathay releases in the old world? I mean, they were talking about it a lot back at the beginning. I think they had intentions to do it. And then their budget got cut heavily. And they, they trimmed it out. So, my guess is eventually, yes, on some kind of timeline. Assuming the project doesn't totally tank, which at this point, it seems like it's not, seems like it's pretty popular. So, I have to imagine that eventually they'll, they already did some amount of work. So they'll, that will encourage them to dust that off. Let me just say this. As a business, if you've done previous work and you're looking for what you slot into your roadmap, and you already have some amount of the project done, and so you can increase your confidence of deliverability and contain your costs, that is very attractive to upper management approving a roadmap. Okay. So, you know, there you go. And then those beastmen in the AOS Vanguard box originate from Warmer Fantasy Battle, they'll rank up, right? Yeah. All the beastmen will. Yeah. That's correct. Okay. Cool. Yes, that's, so my hobby time has been quite intense, a lot of different things going on, but it's exciting. And I think I want to start another really, really big project. I just, I was almost as close to starting it, and then was like, I need something, I need, I needed something lower impact. So I started, because I painted those nights, right? I was like, man, this is more, more relaxed and fun. I needed a little Sorbet before I ate another 72 ounce steak. You know what I'm saying? Right.  All right. With that, Tyler, why don't we turn to our featured topic today, War Coda 2.0. We are here. All right. Before we get into any detail on this, and I've got the battle plans and the terrain thing brought up, so we can go kind of wherever you want with this. Yeah. But I just want to preface it. So I'd like you to go ahead and set the stage for us. Paint a picture for us, Tyler. What's, what is this?  What's going on? What is this? Why is this? Yeah, absolutely. What is this? Why is this? I mean, you nailed it, right? We've talked many times. This is something I would love. We both would love all three of us for the studio to be doing, releasing a new set of battle plans every six months. Give us an annual something, right? With 12 missions and release six more at the midway point for us. Turn the goers as addicts. I think that's a great world to live in. We don't live there yet. So that's what led to ORCA to previously and then once again because we're here again. So I've just, man, we have so many great battle plans over the, over the years, these eight years, right? Some of them were a little rough. There's different opinions about there. There's some real questionable minds out there who love relocation orb. And, but I thought, maybe we could actually make a good matched play viable relocation orb. And I think we did it. So that's a bar. We'll see. See what everybody thinks. Yeah. But yeah, I mean that at the end of the day, that's, that's the idea behind this, you know, just have a way to do a refresh on some of these battle plans. Keep things interesting. Give something, you know, these can work certainly for two days, but I think they're amazing for RTTs, right? Like last time around with war cut us a number of events around the world that would run these at a, at a one day. These are very much, I think in the spirit of what was certainly Tommy and I like, which is stuff that's not too crazy, not too complicated. You know, like most of these have one additional element that they've introduced, right? That's right. Like one additional scoring elements. And yeah. So that's kind of the the wine, what of it? Now, Tyler, if, if our audience were interested in using war coda for themselves, how would they do so? Weird. You ask. Yeah. What a question. There is a lovely website, warcoda.com. You can find linked below or just type into your browser. Yeah. So yeah, the two files are there and we're going to be adding battle reports as they come. We'll add, you can add this video. Might be worth adding. And this was, so I did want to mention been in the community for eight years, never asked for a dime, all the things that I've tried to get involved in. I'm very hesitant to even mention it, but I did throw in a way to tip for this. That's right. If any, you know, for folks who are, I thought that might be reasonable to to finally have a have a bit of an ask. There was a huge amount of work, time and effort that went into war coda 1.0 and 2.0 here. So yeah, threw that in there for folks who would be up for throwing a few bucks for this project. Well, yes, go check out war coda. You can download the stuff if you want to for free. There's no requirement. It is absolutely free if you like, but if you feeling generous for all this amazing hard work that Tyler did with 12 battle plans, the train maps and everything like that, you can also, there's a little tip jar there. You can throw in a little tip, a little $5 tip or whatnot. So, you know, buy Tyler a meal for doing all this hard work the man puts in an incredible amount of effort into this and to keep our games of AOS fresh, to give us more options to play with. I think that's one of the one of the best deals around. Certainly you're paying a heck of a lot more for 12 battle plans and basically nothing else in a GHB as we talked about last week. So, you know, I would call that it's literally an order of magnitude more expensive for effectively the same thing when you get it from GW. So you can't argue with that kind of that kind of deal. Link below in the description, but as well, just a war code like you see on the screen over there dot com. Okay, cool. With that, Tyler, let's get into these. How do you want to do it? Starting with the train map, we starting with this. How should we go about this? Yeah, we can start with, well, actually, I guess we could save the train maps for the end and just go through that quickly at the end. Yeah, but I mean, just everybody knows. Yeah, we do. We have the second PDF that puts forward a set of train guidelines. You can use them or not. It's built, building upon the work of Rob Symes, Garrett Thomas, and Jeff Fiskettis with weird knobs. Those three guys in particular, I mean, the number of people right in the community over the last couple of years that have been involved in trying to improve terrain as we know there's been an issue in AOS, but wanted to shout out those three gentlemen in particular because they've, all three of them have really made a big difference in helping to improve terrain for AOS. So, and then yeah, the train maps. Gareth was the first person I really saw do this. I know Rob, right? He has his own pack as well with others that he's put together on his Wargamer. It's great. I love the work that Gareth has done with the generic Teopack. So, try to spend a lot of time just going through different terrain map layouts, right, to get some diversity in layouts, which, yeah, I think it's cool. Very nice. So, I'm pretty happy with that. Waffles and Joyer, they already revealed Dawnbringers 4 sometime back. It's the one with Usher on it. They just haven't said when it's coming out yet. So, yeah. That was already revealed. We already know it. We're just, we're all just now waiting on it because it's effectively sort of meant to be coming, I suppose, with the FEC stuff whenever we get the the rest of the Flesh Eater Quartz. So, okay. Cool. Well, let's jump right in. So, we got some battle plans here. We've got 12 battle plans, as you mentioned. Standard little breakdown. This is not an official Games Workshop publication. I, you've, I'll tell you, it warms my icy heart that the art we chose to use here on this is a big giant vermin lord escape. I was, I was thinking of you, buddy. Wonderful, Tyler. Yeah, you're welcome. I'm, I'm truly, truly. So, that's great stuff. Then let's just get into it. So, Border War, old classic here. So, I basically, I think what we'll do is just kind of talk through these at a high level and what your goals were. Like, people can read Yeah. what's on the screen. So, but like, what's your, what, what are you setting about to do here? Take us through this. Yeah, and just call it out. So, I think five of these were in the World Code of 1.0, right? And I'll call out which one's, this was one of them. And we went through quite a bit of iteration with those at the time, got them to, I think, a really great place. So, very little has changed with those original five. And I believe one thing we did change with Border War. So, as you remember, Vince, Border War, right, is probably the OG. It's certainly one of the OGs of AOS, right? Yep. The, and the way that it was scored was four points if you take control of your opponent's objective. Sure. One, two, four. That was a, yeah. That was a little too much and it felt in the playtesting, the feedback that we were getting. So, we just modified that to three points. Just to keep things a little tighter. But otherwise, yeah, I mean, it's Border War. So, score one, if you control the objective, starts game on the board of your territory. Two, if you control objective that starts the game wholly outside of either player's territory, have the any language, right? So, you're not able to double up on that. Correct. So, again, so you don't have this, the, the score run away and then you have three points if you control your opponents and then battle tactic Grinch strat. So, one of the most straightforward emissions that you can imagine. Yeah. Absolutely. It's classic. Yep. Very straightforward, but a good solid design. Like some things are just classic, a good suit. You know, it hasn't changed much in, in 70 years, but as a good suit still looks great. So, yeah, Dougie Fresh says, does this still use the current GHB rules like primals? It's, it's agnostic to the battle pack. So, it doesn't matter if you use these with any battle pack. Yes, you certainly could use the current battle pack, which includes that stuff, but you don't have to, you could use just the basic one. You could throw battle tactics completely out the window, let's say, if you wanted to do that. All that would be possible. Okay. Yeah, works, works great with the current GHB, like no issues. Yep. That, that's what we use for all the play testing. So, yeah. Sure. Yep. All right. Number two, forcing the hand. Okay. So, we've got it, we've got a nice, another nice callback here. But with some, some slightly different things going on. So, take us through this one. Yeah. Did you play this one in Warcraft 1.0? I did. I did very much. Yeah. Did you like it?  I think this one, you know, plays really well. So, the vital grounds after armies have been set up before determining is the first turn of the first battle round. Each player must pick one of their own objectives to be their vital ground for the duration of the game. Starting with the attacker. So, that was one of the things that we changed over time, right? Because we initially made it to where you could, the original GHB forcing the hand, right? You were able to change that as, you know, each battle round. Which was the mistake. That was the bad part of the design. Yeah. This has felt so much more interesting in play testing and dynamism of the game. You know, because it opens up different strategies, right? Different approaches to deployment. Whenever, yeah, okay, I want to pick this point and need to hold onto it, potentially, or maybe not. But yeah, it's, it makes, I think a lot more dynamic. Otherwise, scoring is all the same. Hold one, hold two, hold more, but then score one, pick your point. If you control your opponents, vital ground, battle tactic, grand strategy. So, as I said, man, that's going to be a running theme with basically all of these, right? Usually one point or so. Sure. Keeping the scoring tight. Yeah. Tom M had said, does Warco to have any multiplayer doubles triumphant territory type scenarios? And obviously, the answer, there's no. These are, these are 12, more just like, traditional one-on-one tournament style or event style, battle plans. But I do think that there's a world, but you know, Tyler, where I, where I eventually beat you up and convince you to, to write some fun multiplayer ones as well, because you really inspired me and I was complaining about the lack of these battle plans. You did such a great job with these. I might have to, we might have to partner up at some point in time over the course this year and put that together. Yeah. I know we, no reason we couldn't have that. So, there we go. You're giving me a hard time at the start of the show. I think you're right. Yeah, it, if they don't do a sufficient job with the fourth edition, yeah, we should do it. Absolutely. All right. Very good. Anything else we want to talk about this one? I mean, yes, you got the one victory point for the opponent's vital ground. So, you got that extra incentive that can really put you ahead. I like this one because I, I do like the L shape deployment. I think this is a very simple deployment scheme.  Right. But you know, I like the setup. I like when you've got that sort of extra step out there on the side of where you want to get nice and close to the enemy. So, yeah, it's, it's, it creates some interesting setup decisions, I think, with the shape. Yeah. Forcing the hand, the GHB that it came out in, for my money, was the best battle plan of that GHB, whichever GHB that was when it came out originally. Yeah, good to say. Certainly, certainly top two. It was, yeah, just amazing the games that it could create.  I mean, I think you want to have a, you know, not necessarily five missions at a GT that are all just that. It's good to have a mixture. But yeah, that's, that's certainly why my own biases with this stuff. Agreed. And yes, Kyle, it's 2017. All right. Let's keep going. Game of heroes. We got the box set up. Truly my favorite setup. I love the box setup. Why don't you talk about this one? Because I remember you were, again, this was a lot of the ones from the first edition of Warcoda are here at the top here. So this was our third one. I remember you saying you liked this one. You want to say a little bit about it? I do. I really did. I didn't do is the answer. Yes. I mean, like original Warcoda to be clear. Basically, once you released it, I printed out all the pages and it was more or less the only battle plans we used. I'm going to be completely honest. Like we were, we would just play through them kind of over over the weeks. Just kind of cycling through. Yeah. So I like Game of Heroes a lot. First of all, it uses the setup I really like, which is the double box deployment zone and then the box objectives overlaid on top of that. This is one of my favorite deployment maps of all time. I feel like this creates some of the most interesting scenarios in games as being like how the pieces actually play out. And it's really interesting because you are not equidistant from both of your objectives, even though you, because it's not a square, you're like 11 inches away from one and 15 inches away from another, which is a meaningful difference, it turns out, depending on what you're playing. And so the way this works is the objective that starts in your opponent's territory counts as two objectives when you score victory points, which is a thing that I'm shocked they haven't played with more in the hold one, hold two, hold more. Because what that means is that depending on the board set up, you could, you like, by just holding that one, you're getting score one, score two. And at the same time, it also like really flips the game and encourages forward movement into their territory. And so you get this nice counterplay of like, oftentimes what'll end up happening with this, with this one is people will rotate like clock. Yeah. Okay. Like you'll get this situation going on, but you can also expect that and move on. So this one has the standard score one, hold one, hold two, hold more, or one, two, three points. But then it also has the score one victory point if you have a friendly leader from your starting army with the wounds characteristic of nine or less within three inches tray inches of any objective you control, excluding the objective that starts in your territory.  Your two objectives, because again, one of those objectives, like the way that they are and the way they are from the edge and coming on from edges and what people are covering can often matter. This is one of those things that often mattered for me like playing scaven on this because it was like, you know, making sure that I could pop out of my, my gnaw hole and then be within threat range of holding that thing and getting it here and here at that kind of stuff. So, right. That's cool. So yeah. And then, you know, that's that's basically the scoring it again, it's simple, but I think that the elegance is in the design of the basic battle plan itself. Like that is to say, a well designed battle plan doesn't need to be much more than good setup combined with good objective placement and then encouraging you to do interesting things during the game. If you can nail all three of those, you're going to have a good game because it's going to encourage people to move, to break up castles, to react to each other and so on, especially when you're incentivized in some way to go push into your opponent's territory or spread out as you are in both cases with this one. So, right. Yeah, that's why I really like Game of Heroes. I just think it's, it seems so simple, but it's really, really dynamic in how it plays. So, one thing that there's a wrinkle with this one nowadays, which is the new lookout server, right? Sure. So whenever, yeah, war code came out one point out, we didn't have that where you're not able to target outside of 12 with shooting. So that is, you know, we did play Tested. It can change things a little bit, but I still think it's a viable notable mission, but yeah, just to, just to call it out.  I'm really glad that they didn't create a game where there's just tons of incidental mortal wounds that rain all over the place and clouds.  So yeah, no, that's fine. By the way, if you haven't hit like yet or subscribe or don't all those fun things, hit those buttons, click things that make dings. It'll make you at least some percentage points cooler. And so, and that's a hit like if you like cool battle plans. Yeah, would you like if you mentioned that like look out, sir? This just came to my head. Complete aside, in the old world FAQ, one of the questions they answered was like, the way cannons work in the game as you pick up a spot on the ground and then you're rolling artillery dice and like the cannon's gonna hit somewhere and then bounce and then it hits everything in between. And like characters aren't targetable in that game if they're near units of sufficient size of the same type as them as well. So same same sort of rule, right?  So if you got like Beastman on foot next to a bunch of Beastman or something like that, right? You can't target that hero. You can't shoot him, right? Gotcha. And so, but the trick with a cannon ball is that you're not targeting a unit, you're just picking a point on the ground. So people were like, well, can I just pick a point on the ground in front of that hero and then just plow the cannon ball over top? I'm like, oops, incidentally smashed right through him with a cannon ball, right? And the answer they actually gave was no, you just can't pick that point on the ground. He just won't, it'll just not target him because he can just be like sort of Lord of the Rings it, right? When that dude's like just off to the side where that rock comes out and crushes it. Yeah, that's kind of a cool answer. So glad to see that. Yes. No, no, Sniper, no sniping. Okay. Very nice. Rising power. Take us to this one. Do you remember where this one was from? I don't remember where this one's from. I mean, the name is familiar, but I don't remember where it's from. This was the third edition corebook, man. Wow. This was the very, I thought very playable. Yeah, match, match, play playable, tournament playable mission that at least are not ran. That's right. Yes. Yes, it was. I really liked this one. Yes. This is the first battle plan I ever played in AOS 3.0. Yes. Oh, nice. Yeah. So the way they had, I mean, again, this is another example of with some of these, I just thought it'd be cool to bring back some with some tweaks that didn't get enough play. So there's at least one other one that I'm thinking of in that regard. The way that was originally is you, at the start of each battle rounds, I can't remember when, like before after priority, whatever, you would roll a dice, D3, and then so one to two, the left, three to four middle, et cetera. And that would be the objective that counts as two, right, for purposes as you just said. So they had this right of the gate that little tech counting as two for purposes of scoring objectives. I just simply made it to where it's the player going second will dictate which one, right, counts as two, which in play testing worked incredibly well. Simple, seemed pretty elegant and I played this one last week. This is another one where you can play a lot of the board. This has, now I think I also changed the map on this one to match, I actually can't remember the name of the mission. Do you remember the mission where it was like a couple GHBs ago? You could score up to seven points in round one. And it was like this strong and had it had this exact layout, right? You could deploy 11 inches away from your from the enemy. Yeah. So really strong incentive to go first. You could get a lot of benefit on the on the other side. So like it had this interesting yin yang where like, okay, you could do battle red so you're going to get to go first if you want.  And then they can counter and they can counter deploy that, right? So I really like that. And so, yeah, introduce that map here. I think it works really well with these five objectives. Again, you're playing a lot of the board. No, I love this setup. I like that the again this I like the long thin L not to especially with this objective setup. So let me explain why I like this so much. The objective that's in your territory is way over on this side of the map. Let's just call it the left side as we're looking at it, right? Okay. I understand that's that's arbitrary, but we're just going to stay here on the left side. Meanwhile, the other objective that's touching your territory is and where you have this like forward push where you can be out there is way over here on the right side, right? So like, they're sort of like where it could be very near where they want to push like you want to push here because you can go grab objective one if you're the defender here whereas attacker wants to push to get objective three. And so like deployment actually can really become very split, right? In this weird way with this thing. I think I love this mission because I think this mission does very much subtly disincentivize Batredge like one drop because the way you have to just like, okay, I'm Batredge and I go first and I have to drop my whole army and you're really making a commitment that your opponent can then in this in a battle plane like this respond to in a pretty strong way. And that's going to lead to like a lot of potential play. I mean the fact that by going second they're probably going if they Batredge they probably make themselves go second and choose the objective but you're going to know that and like from the moment they set up you know what they're choosing, right? There's no actual choice to them. They've set up they're going to choose a particular objective to be worth to and like you can respond to that accordingly which is cool. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I played against Bastion a stormcast list and he was interesting with this mission you know with the ability of Bastion to redeploy D3 units. Yep. So that was cool to see. Yeah, man. Well, good. Yeah, I and again very straightforward scoring hold on hold to hold more but yeah, the shifting priority counts as two objectives when scoring points. Yeah. Like I wish they would play with simple levers like that more. I think things like that are really clever. Yeah. Doesn't always have to be points. Sometimes it could just be count as two objectives or something like that, right? I think they could play with like a you know like where on like the heroes one we just talked about with the side to side. I think there would be ways where you could play with it like if you hold your opponents when and something that counts as holding more that round. Oh, that's interesting. Okay. Yeah. Like as long as you put an extra condition on it like they have to if you hold it with at least this or with a battle line unit or something like that, right? So you make it so you have to shove your battle line, get your battle line deep into their territory. Then you then it counts as holding this objective counts as holding more. All right. Or something like that. I think there's there's space they haven't played with there yet that I think could be explored. It's just it's amazing to me. We've done battle plans this many times and like just haven't really even checked on the fundamentals. Right. Yeah. We keep doing wacky stuff that's too complicated. It's an ice tower and it explodes and ice spiders come out and then everybody has to do it, do a jig. But if you have three units then it's a D6 damage. But if you have two units, it's only a D3. It's like what is happening here? Right. Why is any of this? You randomly made me think of the season of war. I got to get my being of card check box or filled in. So latest was Ridge and Jordan playing a matchup for LVO Prep. And Ridge pointed out in that game I'd never realized this with Founds of Frost. You know, the objective can explode when you have three more contesting. Yeah. You just if let's say you have 10 dire wolves that are spread out. You just have okay, they're on two objectives but you just have that unit of dire wolves count toward the other objective. So they're not counting toward control. So you could actually have like five units that are on that objective but only two are counted as contesting. Correct. You just have them contest the other one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we mentioned that on the original show but maybe I might have it's okay. Like, yeah, I mean it's just it's yeah. It's that it's that that thing is wackadoo really like legitimate. I don't hate it. It's perfectly fine and fun thing. But boy is it like we didn't need all that. But yeah, part of one of the points of philosophy with this project was to take a conservative approach, right? Sure. I thought about well, okay, I could explore more design space as an individual that they haven't explored yet but that is getting outside of the parameters of why this project was created, right? The intent of this project is to try to generally mimic some of the basic kind of fundamental principles of I think the best of GHB design, GHB outplaying design, right? At least as an aspiration. So I didn't want to yeah, introduce too many things that are outside of the norms of what we would expect. No, we'll leave that for the one that you and I do together. That's where we'll get wild. That's where we'll get wacky. That's where we push the envelope, Tyler. Absolutely. Okay, cool. Let's go. Next up, battle plan five, thirst for blood. Okay. Take us through this one. You know what this one is based on? I'm doing what you do to me. Do you know what this is? Do you know that? Is it ring and bell what this was based upon? Yes. I do remember this one. The three. It was the, well, I'll just give it away. So I know we got quite a few more. First blood. There you go. It's not very far to go from thirst, first blood to thirst for blood. Nice. Good rhyming. Good rhyming. Well done. All right. Yeah, man. This right this. This was our quintessential like game one mission for the original 3.0 GHB. First blood. Awesome map. You play across a lot of the board. Really interesting mission. So thirst for blood. The element that's been introduced here is getting some kill points going on.  This is the most exciting thing I saw when I read this one. Yes. Like I, look, I was a big proponent in the early days of like moving away from just being all about kill. Like I liked adding objectives and stuff like that. I think we may have turned a bit from the face of our fathers. Okay. I think we may have forgotten the face of our fathers a little bit. Like who who got together to kill each other. Not to not to like run around and do a handstand. And then also make sure you only stand on this point when you're doing a handstand. Like I think we've we've fallen from grace. Okay. And you know playing some of the old world as I said to you before the show started has really clarified in my mind how much I like you know kill points as a factor, as a thing, as an option in some battle plans to add to scoring. I do not think it's how the game should be run. Like I like the objectives and I like the way that that AOS works in that regard. Right. And that obviously killing your enemy is a way to get at the objectives. So it becomes sort of a thing. But I also like it when some missions have some kill point incentives. I literally talked about this last week about like I would love it if you know a third of our battle plans or something like that or you know a quarter of our battle plans could be a couple. You know what I mean? Like in that pack of 12 you got two or three and I'd be great. I'd be I'd be sent you know. Right. Had some kind of kill point incentives of different kinds in them. They don't all need to be the same thing. One could be just like like you've got to hear where it's like doing killing more enemy units could be you know killing a hero in the round. Like no matter how many it's just if you killed a hero during this battle round or during this turn right you know something like that kind of stuff.  Totally. And then counter charge every so often. Yeah. Yeah. Like an ancillary kill point thing. So yeah that's that excited me the most. I also like this setup. I like the tiny corner deployment zone by knocking the chunk out of the box. Like you know I'm ultimately I'm a fan of this to this is what it comes down to. Right. And so you know this you're really far apart is what it comes down is what it actually feels like I also like any battle plan where I don't have to get out the measuring sticks to set like in the middle and start doing trigonometry to figure out where I'm not allowed to bring in bells. I feel like I've heard this a few times over the years. Okay. I will make the exception only for the box to box since it's just like one nine inch stick that I could put from the center one and just go like this. Right. That's my exception. I'll settle for it. But yeah this is great.  So it's great. Yeah I really love the nuance of that of more enemy units than friendly units were destroyed right. It's not a couple of variables there that you're having to account for in your execution of that. So yeah that's been kind of a nice little subtle thing that that made a little bit more interesting in terms of killing. Absolutely. And like what weird knob said make the game more than stand on circles make so much sense. And like yes I mean you want to like balance giants. This was the question we had over and over again and over and over again right. It kept coming up. How do we balance the sons of Batman. How do we do it. How could we possibly do it. Putting in kill points or like contingenting some amount of points on to kill points would balance sons of Batman out really fast. Right. Like I'm not saying right now they're a terror in this phase. I mean they haven't largely gotten to play in any seasons for a long time. Like they're OK. They always show up and go at least like basically three two by default or two three by default just because they can just stand around and win.  So that kind of stuff can help to balance armies that are just really good at standing.  Oh my god. Oh no they're getting worse. Each time I play them it's been so sad the last three times I played it's like the gate breakers they're just doing nothing. I explain this to people when the when the new book came out that I was like I'm happy because they made the damage number higher but they also then commensually reduce the attack so everything is more swingy. And what ends up happening is you just your giants just don't do much.  But it's so weird. Yeah. Yeah. Like this is 10 skinks. You're you're massive 500 point effectively mega gargant attacks. He kills six skinks. It's like all right. Sure. OK. So while we're on this we didn't actually finish the conversation or at least get a little further in the conversation. Is there a way you could quickly tell me with the old world since I haven't watched the show yet. And I don't know anything about the old world rules and so on or hardly anything. So your mission it has kill points as one of the fundamental elements. Right. As I'm gathering. Is that is that it.  So there's like you get the points for killing the unit if you lift a unit you get the points of that unit. How much were they worth. That's what you get. OK. But then you get extra points for things like banners and other stuff like that. Certain things in the game will be worth extra bonus points if you managed to pick them up. So even if you lost more if you killed the right things you could come out ahead is what it comes down to. So it's kind of all variations on that thing. Their battle plans that are in there are more much more like variations on deployment and interactivity than they are variants on scoring. Although there is some interesting things that vary battle plan battle plan that you enjoy. Like they change up the rules for who goes first in some of the battle plans for how you determine who goes first. So that's kind of interesting. That's a battle plan dependent thing. So yeah. What's the standard what's the standard way that you're choosing who goes first. Alternating deployment if there are there are minor differences there. We don't need to worry about the nuance here but alternating deployment and then whoever finishes for you roll off but then whoever finishes first so whoever's lower drops you know gets plus one to the roll. OK. OK. Interesting. Now there are like I said there are things that that will vary that within the individual battle plan. Gotcha. OK. Cool. Which is cool. Interesting. Yeah. All right. I like that's again classic. There's there's so much of the text and you know you you work through these and wrote these right. And there's so much of this text that ends up becoming wrote and repeated that we never vary that we could. Sure. Right. Like we could vary something about attacker and defender. We could vary. Right. Something about deployment. We could vary something about game length. We could vary something about minor and major victory stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Like it wouldn't have to just be like right now all of these are structured and it's no offense like you're being in line with how these things work now. But like the player with the most victory points scores a major victory. OK. But like that's not how it'd have to work. It could be like the only like the player with the most victory points scores a minor victory unless they scored five or more victory points more than their opponent or something like that. Right. I'm phrasing that. Yeah. But you get what I'm saying. Right. So like you have to score 23 to 18. Otherwise it's a minor victory or something like that. Like we could play more with that space. And that would also add to the ability like one of the things TOs are always complaining about is separation and tournaments. Sure. Yeah. Like being able to actually effectively separate and part of the problem is because everybody just claims major victories every round because it's basically just major victory draw loss. If you had more minor victories injected in some way where because you dealt at the scoring more or open up the ways for those to happen you would create more deviation in the scores. Yeah. Exactly. Like there's a lot of things you could vary that we've just never we vary this paragraph. Right. Right. And then that's it. Again that's not in any way a judgment. I think you did great work here and you focus most of your time on thinking deeply about things like the deployment zones the objectives and stuff like that which is which is the critical thing to cover. My point is they could do do more. So but I love this one. I like this one. And again the concern like that's outside the scope of the Absolutely. the mission here. So yeah. Guiding principles are very important and you are sticking to yours. Yes. This is turned into the tangent battle plans. Two last ones. I have to it popped in my head. I have to shout out Jeff with weird knobs. I've already mentioned but do Jeff did the design work on this document. Right. Oh nice. He did the AOS reference sheet. He's done all kinds of amazing design work in the community for for a number of years now. The man is amazing. He came out with his friend to Vault Wars. We got dinner together with the big group. Anyway I could go on about Jeff forever but thank you Jeff for the incredible work on this document. Just Spends an in design master or whatever. Yeah. I don't know something about whatever whatever layouts offer using Jeff. You're great at it. Looks great. Yeah. Last tangent. If there were one mission in this entire set dude that I would love to actually see get played at some GTs before for the edition it's this one thirst for blood because as you said just give us a kill point mission. Yeah. At a GT. Yeah. That would be amazing. All right. I agree. Okie dokie artichoke. Here we go. Won't back down the Tom Petty when I remember this one well because that's a many many times that I joke when this was in other than this name was sort of in a rotation of the Tom Petty battle. Yeah. All right.  Sure. Tell us about this and why why why we've got what's going on here. So this was another one right that almost never saw play at GTs. I played this number there was a big reason why this never saw play and that was because the rally points or whatever it was called I don't know if I changed the name of rally points was on a four up. You could basically rally anything in the game on a four up. So there were sometimes right I would hear about a game between two really skilled players that got skewed because one player rolled a number of four ups on a unit that they shouldn't be able to to rally them that sort of thing would happen. You know like not happening all the time but but it created the potential for that level of skew that you don't want. So I just simply toned down the rally points because personally I love this mission this layout. Yeah it is one of those right that it's the the non-standard deployment the long ways. So if you have a tournament that can't account for that then that's fine. There's not that many of them in here that have that. This and I think the next one are the only two. But yeah dude this is an amazing mission in terms of actually if you can play it. So we just toned down the rally points. I think it made it to where basically you get to do a rally for free. Right. Which is a very different deployment or very different rule than rallying on a four up. Like being able to issue an additional rally but it's still in sixes is good. Now the problem is there's still plenty of armies that have that brought there. They're like no no it's cool I don't need them. I brought my own. All right. So that's a challenge but that being said you know I like I'll be honest this is not my favorite one in the pack. Okay. But that is because I have a yeah I have an undying hatred of rally as a as a rule and a concept put it in the bin it should be gone forever. But I think this kind of concept and how you execute it on it where if you're in six inches the objective then you you know you can issue this command at a right at a reduced cost basically you know without the command point being spent is a great idea for for something for how something could work imagine you're within six inches of objective you get to roll the redeploy dies twice whenever you issue redeploy and take a higher result. Okay. Or you know like the the objective the way that battle plans framed the objectives make you like blood thirsty. So you can issue the all out all out attack only attack command a second time during the combat phase without a command point being spent and even if you've already issued that order or something right. Like you could see stuff like that being in there and being a cool way to just like minorly tweak on the base rules but being really really fun right it's just I think you're just dealing with a toxic asset here is what's going on when we're dealing with rally so I love that. Yeah. No I was thinking about that as well and kind of writing this I yeah I love that idea. I think that would be really interesting and yeah this one to me like I think this is the person that really stands out to me as open to some critique like probably I could have done something more interesting with with the rally points there again trying to not move too far away from what the company the studio did right and but just make this one more playable more interesting because yeah I just don't think enough people played this one. It's it's really cool. Yep. So yeah that's that one. Very nice. All right. Let's get into table two. Battle for the past yet again lengthwise but I mean come on now is there by the way in I don't have the book here it's upstairs because I was sitting down in my chair upstairs with my wife while we were hanging out and I was reading this some of the Old World books but one of these exists Battle for the past exists and it's a battle plan in the old world too because this thing I mean this thing has a pedigree Tyler this the name of this battle plan goes back to I mean from the time we first decided that scenario should be a thing right right yeah I was thinking I couldn't remember which edition introduced like legitimate scenarios in the Warp of Fantasy battle book but anyway yeah I do remember this was one of the early ones. Yes. Yeah. Yeah this is the flip side of the same coin right this is the pair with battle with border war they both function the same thing for the reasons that we scaled back the four points the three points with border war we did it here as well just an awesome mission so yeah this is the each table has one length ways man so you know I thought we could do one per table we can get away with that fair enough so not a lot to say about this one yeah people have played it a lot over the years you know it was early I think those 2017 it came out and yeah so but it was one of the original war code at one point absolutely there you go fluctuations of power again we got a nice big horizontal deployment zone here standard nine inches away but a big old territory which is really relevant now with some of the units because there's a lot of things a lot more units in the game now that care about your territory so having a good mix in the pack where your territory is not just the 11 inch line actually matters a lot you're like take Zanestra for example we just talked about her at the beginning of the show when she's got a march to here as opposed to here to turn on her additional ability that's a big difference in what she can do during the game right I also as you know you and I we have I mean you talked about this a little bit I want to do just a hammer on it like I think it's really important that there's always a couple six objective battle plans in the mix because like it just it matters a lot that you like it's good to have a couple threes it's good to have a couple sixes it very much like certain armies will perform materially differently on battle plans that have more or less objectives just by the presence of those things the sheer number yeah yeah 100% yeah we've talked a lot about that over the years how I just tend to think on at least on average the game becomes more compelling intriguing dynamic interesting more variety yeah when you have six you know five six objectives agreed when you have to cover more the board space yeah so anyway do you know where to continue continue asking questions do you know where this one is from fluctuations of power well first of all I agree with Cygnus Maximus who says definitely a better name than rolling brown out I think that's pretty great yeah I know what this was from I can't think of it yes it I remember this was a recent white dwarf okay actually yeah this so they have been introducing battle plans in white dwarfs periodically for 40k etc and this one I don't know how many months ago it's been but it really stood out to me it had some issues with it it was incomplete but we played in a number of times and it's solid it's really interesting so added some narrative to it fix the things that I thought needed to get fixed and here you go we've got a competitively ready to go battle plan so two factions have unwittingly converged at a Rome's edge seeking to extract Rome stone deposits of extraordinary elemental power they must first survive this battle and the oscillations of raw magic okay so we've got empower and depower this is probably the most text for you know one of these little descriptors sure sure hopefully we can we can follow this at the start of each battle rounds after priority has been determined the player taking the second turn in that battle round must pick one objective on the battlefield to be empowered at the end of that battle round that empowered objective becomes depowered and cannot be controlled by either player in the next battle rounds an objective cannot be picked to be empowered more than once during the battle yeah this is this is a variation on this was in where did we have this same concept this is in 3.0 right wasn't in the first ghp we had this concept where you burned through all the objectives turning them on to this state and then they'd go into the off state not like off you can't claim them or they're not worth anything I'm trying to remember we have a mission that's coming up which I mean I don't mean it's scorched earth but that's probably not what you're thinking of no it's not but that's fine yeah I don't I don't remember I like but at any rate okay got it so you turn one on it becomes empowered right yeah and then at the end of that round it's gonna depower and in that in that next round where it's depowered no one can claim it and then it then it flips back over and effectively can be claimed again but it's it can't ever be empowered again so they go so the so the thing will be like there is some amount of time and then empowered depowered normal right that's the right flux okay very good yeah and that I found that that cannot be when you when an objective empowered objective becomes depowered and cannot be controlled by either player in the next battle round right that creates some interesting dynamism oh sure some yeah and and how that plays out and in the tactical thinking that you're doing your approach to the mission you know what objectives you are empowering so that it cannot be empowered again in the battle right you might be picking your opponent's objectives and giving them an extra point early so that to get them to move to get them that way so during a critical turn their objectives especially if like okay I think I'm gonna be if you I think I'm gonna be able to take your right most objective away from you right and so I'll get hold one hold two hold more okay and I'm gonna hit your objective so I'll give you a bonus point to keep us even but then next round you're screwed right like you're in deep trouble so yeah absolutely there's there's absolutely counterplay there and that's just really fascinating where suddenly you could put them in a position where they're left with like one objective right all of a sudden that they can actually claim during that round so yeah standard hold one hold one hold two hold more and then the extra victory point for the empowered objective yeah yeah yeah so like some men it was a it was a solid mission it just needed to get a few of the kings worked out and uh yeah and what what they laid out there so that's that very nice Pat Noon said this was issue 492 so very nice 492 okay sweet all right focal points ah now here's a name I have not heard in a long time right okay why don't you talk about this one why don't you take this one I mean focal points is always a classic like scenario I love this one again so we've got the the setup that I've talked about liking earlier effectively we've got that the two tetris pieces kind of squaring off against each other I like this sort of a setup we have the variation on the four objectives in the box which is instead of on the corners there in the in the cross formation again still good with it I like all of that and what that's kind of doing with the game state so you have objectives one and three and two and four and you'll notice they're they're whatever you get what I'm saying they're yeah you get it they're in that evens and odds formation for a reason that reason being the way the victory points work is you have score one if you hold one score one if you hold two one if you hold more so standard hold one hold two hold more however if you hold our right then you get an extra point so it's encouraging you to need to spread right and again one of those is touching your zone one of those is very much not right and so you have to make that like the easy again this is one of those that will because especially because of the way the deployment's working it will tend to want to rotate but rotate doesn't buy you anything right like holding two and three is nothing extra so you've got to be able to like potentially rotate but still hold then like move on to two and four or whatever you know something to that nature um and you're not and you're not allowed to double up that was if you may remember that's one of the things that came out of the play testing right is it's if you control if you control all the objectives you're not getting two points for doing that right you're still just getting one extra point to try to again to keep the score a little tight I mean I think that there's a coherent perspective that would push against that but that's where we ended up which is like if you're holding all four objectives you've already won the game anyway you've probably you've probably won the game anyway exactly yeah what has happened to the enemy that you've been allowed to gain all four objectives like did they just stop playing are they dead they were going to sandwich like what what occurred yeah totally yeah but like it's fine in the end it's it's good because what did that that allows for is it it also doesn't encourage this sort of weird suicidal play which could happen on the flip side right which is people are trying to stretch out to like just get all that now you can get one so it's fine right one little debate I was thinking about maybe removing that extra box man that we did have a more could have 1.0 which we maintained here the extra box you know kind of that southwest red northeast blue right I would I mean the game certainly isn't slower now in 2024 than 2021 maybe it's faster but it's certainly not slower right with mobility and everything so I was thinking because that was part of the original thought was to have that yeah shrink it down to the three box corner deployment basically yeah yeah so I think you could do that it would probably still work quite well again with the speed the teleporting ambushing everything that's going in the game but yeah I think if you killed those boxes you'd reduce the the clockwork spin that was one of the concerns yeah yeah yeah because because it's extending it's almost like telling it's it's almost like directing your army of like this is how you're going to move you know so you have to kind of fight against that to some degree yeah as you're saying I think the deployment is more intriguing with the four boxes rather than the three and the value of higher drop generally becomes higher absolutely you have more you have more space to respond yes yeah great yeah okay yeah light and shadow oh boy everybody you know there's been some people who were with us at the beginning we started reviewing this Tyler I watched the viewer counted those people dropped they left they couldn't hang out and folks for those of you who are still watching and stayed stuck in this is you have you have made the right choice get ready everybody here we go all right so hit like for relocation orb that maybe even Tom would like all right go for this here we are all right let's both do this so I'll start us out with the let's do the description I'm very proud of the description though we are set in the hidden gloaming two great powers are trapped within the hidden gloaming the sub realm at the edge of Hish and Olgu where light and shadow meet twin orbs a profound etheric energy surge around you your force must siphon their power for use in the last ditch arcane ritual your only hope between salvation and annihilation very nice okay so this is yeah this is our relocation this is our attempt to fix relocation orb yep so Tom right now his ears are burning he's sweating he doesn't know why he can't figure it out yeah I gotta do a shout out to Bryce my friend Bryce who started us off with with this and so yeah he did the first crack at this you want to take relocating the orbs yeah sure so so basically I mean you can everybody can see it from the map but to explain what's happening here right we're starting off with two objectives that are like this it like if my if my screen is the the table you have your light warp and your dark warp effectively right so one one okay cool right so at the start of the second battle round and then each successive battle on after that two three four five before determining who will take the first turn each objective is moved to the new location they can't be moved in any other way and control of an objective is lost when the objective relocates okay really a really really important detail there super duper duper important so what's going to happen is they're going to start here and then they're going to go bop bop bop bop yep right or whatever I think I went too many but you get it they're going to they're going to switch places by the time switch places yeah yep I might have done too many bumps but that was but that was you get that you get the concept yep okay and then siphoning the orbs when determining control of an objective if you have any friendly wizard whoop whoop whoop wizard within three inches of that objective three inches or any friendly hero with an artifact of power within three inches of that objective you can select one of them and count them as 10 models for the purposes of contesting that objective so because they you know concife in the orb and then other than that this is hold one hold two and difficulty hold more hold more right yeah yep okay so that could be quite a quite a nice swing if you get the whole more because that means you've gotten hold two that's right yeah yeah I should have started the difficulty at hold two which is like yeah in a two objective matches like hold one got it understood hold two oh boy yeah because suddenly you're you basically you can only get the hold one or hold more right like like you you you'll automatically trip your way into that yeah um yes bop it slap it something bring it twist it I don't know whatever all the different things where you can do with that game who didn't love bop it so yeah this is I have to say this is fun it's certainly I think I really do think Tom would would like this one um because it gets rid of the thing that he hated which was two things that he hated one it was always difficult to like legitimately understand where the heck the orb was going even when you like you're looking at the map and you're like okay we rolled right where is this going yeah right so that's like it's just hard to understand and two the chaos of it right um and and just whereas this is like you know where it's going you know what's going to happen again I've talked about the nature that the tendency of armies to get into the like sort of clockwork or counter clockwise uh but this one I think does that like almost it's going to very naturally sort of encourage that right as it's happening yeah and that's why I think the the genius here the thing that I really really loved when I read over these earlier was the control of an objective is lost when an objective relocates I really love that because you that means you gotta move you gotta go take it just necessarily standing where you are isn't good enough it's great it's great I'm I'm so strongly here for that that came out of the playtesting yeah in in doing this and the siphoning the orbs I mean just to say it but as you know that is more or less right out of the core nature of relocation orb you know like how relocation orb was warranted right where it really valued wizards and yeah counting as more of what not yeah and and artifacts heroes of artifacts power so yeah try to translate that well to the current state of the game yeah man like I I've loved this in playtesting so far I mean is it the most perfectly balanced competitive match play mission that you're going to have played no it's not that but I I I think this is better than like three or four of the current seasons alleged event GHB battle plans so I I think we're fine Jonathan Strauss said you can use your Geminids of oogiesh as objective markers which I love that's great those would be perfect objective markers just the two little orbs chasing each other around yeah yeah yeah 100% yeah so Jeff talked about doing this in the the battle report they're going to do on their weird knobs that rep channel the name of which is escaping the weird cast that's what it is yeah so looking forward to that yeah man it was really excited with how this one came out I love it that's great that's great okay Badoop scorched earth oh boy this deployment zone Tyler have we created a new deployment zone I've never seen I don't think we've ever seen this at a map yeah I double L Tyler you're mad you're right I don't know if we have had this I took a little while to get to this point yeah I was trying to figure out okay how to do something different with scorched earth and this is where I arrived I don't know if we have I'd have to go back what do we call this the window the window yeah the window deployment I think it's what we call it yeah right okay yeah it just made it you know this mission more or less is based upon the best version of scorched earth it's had a lot of different variation over the years right with GHBs and I just took what I thought was generally the the best version of it which is that you can only burn one objective right you're not burning at one point we could burn multiple objectives you know like the early days 2017 2018 so yeah they're all they're all lying yeah exactly yeah all right so this one you're just you can burn up to one well just read it from the start of the second bout around after you score victory points you can rate one objective that you control that starts the game bordering your opponent's territory oh hold on and is within one inch of a friendly unit yeah yeah very important very important yep and so you get your extra victory point that way and then the objective gets removed to play and you cannot rate more than one objective per turn so this was the GHB 2021 it was not called scorched earth it was called something different but it was essentially scorched earth that 3.0's version of it yeah and then everything else is standard but yeah dude I was just trying to figure out what's a way to really change them things up this is a spicy deployment I gotta say man for such a simple thing like again the fundamentals how often do I have to bang on this right like you can do fun stuff with all those other things but the fundamentals matter what a spicy meatball this is like and by and let's see weakened decadence that my only regret is the nine inches away I would have liked deployment even more with no limits like if on the sides you were allowed to get right up on the line you know right do a no reward without risk style on the yeah exactly exactly um but I love this when you talk about like incentive to split your army right because you can swing basically a couple extra inches up onto each side of the L right yeah um starting basically like what would it be two inches out yeah two inches up and you can be two inches into that that second zone on top of the objective right so it's not huge I think honestly legitimately like with a deployment like this you could have gotten even wackier like probably starting like up on the line is hard but I think doing a six inch away deployment so there's a 12 inch no man's land in between oh yeah instead of nine could have been really interesting because then you'd get five inches up into the the zone yeah side that's interesting yeah and like I know it doesn't like two inches to five inches three inches doesn't sound like that much space but I you know in the game I think like that feels like it matters a lot and would radically change the incentive to deploy out to those corners right right right and really get wacky with like how people start trying to like split their armies and what's what's holding your home center objective and like that kind of thing so yeah that's a very good point yeah I think that's one of the best points of the night so far in terms of potential modifications so yeah now I think you're right that may have better express the intent so what I was going for here with with that extra space to really incentivize it yeah that's interesting I mean like it's just it's again it's a it's a you know I think what we what we're sharing here is that oftentimes even like one little small change like that again it's three inches of deployment on the table on let's say on another you know a huge amount of table space right and yet it will just radically change how how people will interact with their yeah and also potentially then again reward the other advantage that is it also does reward the higher drop player again because they could choose to like they can see and then choose to respond by going basically farther out onto those edges or not depending on how about their opponent did their their one drop so yeah 100% yeah played this one a fair amount I love it yeah that the territory has been a meaningful change and how it plays and on average so yeah weird all right man just said I'm ready to edit just let me know there we go okay nice yeah buddy far away let's uh let's go to the last one here total conquest unusual and you've got the left to right travel there for defender versus attacker doesn't seem like that big of a deal but we just for some reason we always tend to be like on our right hand side I don't know I'm like oftentimes your deployments cluster around this side of the board I don't know that's because like the majority of the people are like are right handed I don't know so we just tend to think that way but yeah take us through this one the the interesting you took the Tyler you you lunatic you took the objectives off of the lines now I know weird weird so wild so total conquest we've had a couple variations of that over the years in one version maybe multiple versions we have what I've added as the key scoring element which is score one victory point if you control more objectives than your opponent I'm sorry score one victory point if you control any objective controlled by your opponent in the last turn there it is yeah getting tired score one victory point if you control any objective controlled by your opponent in the last turn yeah man we had at least one version of total conquest that had that uh and then add that with this map I love this map so we're nine off those two points you've said this barely squeaks in under your acceptability standards so I appreciate that yeah you right you pretty obviously are going to be potentially playing a lot of the board absolutely this is one of my favorites of the entire battle pack yeah I like I like this a lot and I'll tell you what makes me love this one you're ready it's the two corner box objectives those things it's it's this is one of those things that doesn't you don't think about it when you're just looking at the map because like the map does it's a little small thing with colored boxes on it right but when you set this up and you put that objective on the table the two corner ones these two you're going to be like holy crap these are not near anything and so like when you're going after those you're making like a decision about what is happening there and it is the fact like these are so far like because most of the game let's be honest happens in this area right here sure right that's that's like most games we play happens within this like roughly 22 by 30 inch space yeah you know this like war cry board in the middle is where we do most of our fighting right okay but these two are so outside the lines that if you're going to go over there and claim them and hold them with any kind of strength this very much pushes people to the outside I like incentive to get pushed to the outside to push to those directions yeah this one's this one's pretty pretty darn great there's a little nuance with those objectives on the northwest and southeast which is that you can deploy and be on them be contesting them depending on which when you're talking about yes that's that's true yes if you're so yes you're like the defender can deploy and contest the northwest one this sorry I'll just say it this way this one blue box man can contest this one that's set up red box person or lady can contest this one at setup because the nature of this being 15 inches across this objective is coming shy of right here but it's extending into because it's only 11 inches this way it's extending a half inch into the into the deployment zone yes I agree huge deal huge deal make makes the deployment more interesting now at the same time this is and again as I love this it's the benefit of the rectangles blue box person this one right here the ones so they can't touch this one right they can't get like at deployment they can't be contesting it but they can be contesting this one in the middle oh yeah that's good yeah I forgot right yeah absolutely so like so basically they have easier like potential contest of let's just call it like the first one and the third one whereas the attacker has contest potentially of the second and the fourth but again because you have those potential contestations it's then drawing your army wide right right so yeah yep yep absolutely yeah and that simple score one victory point if you control any objectives controlled by your opponent the last turn right the gameplay that that can introduce in terms of your decision making on what you're controlling what you're not controlling sure yeah it's it's made a meaningful difference in the in the play testing and importantly because it's in the last turn I assume if I march out like let's say they start contesting it if I march out and take it and like I go first in one okay I go at the top of one if I march out and take it I assume I'm not getting that extra point because they didn't contest it in the last turn because there was no last turn this is turn one right correct okay I am I am I am interpreting the rules correctly right yes correct yep yeah so the some consideration for it settled on this but it would probably work with with that orientation as well yeah might it might even be more interesting but yeah yeah you could you could go that way with it but yeah the like I said one of my favorites man played this one a lot it's boy if you want to play across the entire board here you go it's great that's great yeah and let's quickly deployment yeah huge deployment territories really fun dig the heck out of that one okay oh my god what is happening we're going to do a show with me in under two hours this this can't be happening okay let's talk a little about maps buddy I gotta so you got some maps here folks take us through it so what's going on here what's the idea okay so work on a 2.0 train maps and guidelines optional set of train maps guidelines for ALUS games was working on 2.0 again Rob, Gareth, Jeff and company not named here who have improved terrain in ALUS thank you gentlemen so train guidelines step one just wanted to try to lay out right a simple way to do at least one take on what's become pretty standard so as you know there's a couple of different variations right a few different variations on this whole you know like OVO version of pick two eight train features two area two defensible slash garrison bull two wildwood slash obscuring two impassable right yep so that's that's basically what this is doing so step one your opponent I mean very standard your opponent you each will a dice winner choose be the defender attacker sets up terrain match matching the train map standard rules for that step three you're going through that process to finish like six train features again we I could have added area train here or slash cover just went with the core six defensible impassable obscuring so two of each each designation can be used twice pretty standard and then step forward the defender select six train features that designate here's your scenery effects right yeah arcane yeah but you can only use each type of mysteries train once so there's only going to be you know one arcane one dam but I thought just trying to simplify it right still having scenery effects not getting too wild you could do that in a more standard way you just roll off uh and then yeah everything else is is pretty standard so I added the optional rule of thumb that as you know events we have been using locally and some other events this seems to be especially a Missouri thing which may not be saying a lot I don't know I haven't seen too many other states pick this up okay I love it maybe you don't know about this if parts of a train feature are four inches or taller only those parts are considered impassable unless the whole thing is impassable then the whole thing as the impassable designation yeah yeah sure that dude like we uh vault wars get we open a lot of a lot of our events in Missouri we have been doing this for a couple of years now and it generally fixes all the issues that you can imagine I just uh okay so like there could be some corner cases Jeff made some points after vault wars Jeff has got us for with rear knobs and why you know he anyway won't go into a lot of details with it but yeah it's it's worked really well for us big fan uh and then these train maps yeah what do you think about some of these maps yeah I think it's good it just gives people an idea for how to sort of place their terrain the key with the the gray circles is not that you have eight pieces of terrain that look exactly like little circles right I mean obviously that's not what the the point is here just to get everybody on the page right what we're talking about is to make sure that they understand on any given game how the terrain could be placed as such to sort of both one incentivize interesting lanes of movement options for for how those things are going to be designed in Passable Garrison and hence like then controlling the ebb and flow of the game giving potential cover if you're using larger terrain features like it should be and they're all kind of the idea being to seat them in that space right yes generally that more represents kind of the the center area of where that terrain however big it actually would be would be centered yeah exactly while meeting this again and step two of the guidelines which is just right out of the court you know standard rules each train feature must be more than three from the battle for the edge more than six from the train features more than three from objectives you know standard stuff did add defensible terrain must be more than six inches from objectives right as you know a lot of grand tournaments have added that just to avoid the the nonsense of having Garrison ball units contesting an objective like yeah that's you can get a huge advantage but yeah man yeah you know that so try to have quite a bit of variety here like like border war right the four there in the middle seem very appropriate but you know you've got to follow the guidelines you don't want to get four huge pieces of terrain that's going to block off you know the the middle follow the guidelines have appropriate terrain yeah just I'm really excited about these I hope people use them give them a shot we've I've used them a lot and play testing and just adds great variety we got so accustomed locally into doing the three two three right that you see yeah of course three two three is how I set up my table like every week yeah I am always doing when I'm set it up I'm just like I'm Mr. three two three like whether yeah okay get them out three two three okay got it or or sometimes depending on the particulars I'll end up being two three two but like it's it's always that variation yeah yes absolutely like I understand why the world championships it seemed to be like every single table three three two three with two wild woods in the middle right line of sight blocking like I get it but it's just I think yeah we have opportunities to have more variety with with our tables and again I love Gareth was the very first Gareth and Rob with our train packs they did this their TO packs they've they've done this with with train maps so just to give everybody a glance then at the other table so there we go yeah so you can see kind of what those other missions look like yeah it makes it so there's actually varied setups that's sort of intended and been set to work well with the with the the the mission and question here you're missing one of your gold balls by the way from total conquest but that's okay yeah there's a lot five bottom bottom right oh okay yeah missing gold ball people would understand what's going on it's not the biggest day in the world we'll uh we'll clean that up uh Pat Noon how hard is it to organize TO a tournament all the simple answer is pretty darn hard um just because the amount of logistics you have to go but Tyler you've I mean you've you've TO'd so you want you want to tell me about it you want to share with Pat your thoughts yeah I feel like we've done an episode on this yeah I'm sure the people have yeah so I'm the first off I would recommend yeah finding that episode that we've done uh it depends on the scale like did he come again I'm not following comments on if he commented on what kind of scale I would highly recommend just starting with you know like like small scale like maybe a one-dayer at your local after the beginning store look see if there's anybody else locally who has already done it learn from them reach out to TOs in yeah feel free to reach out to me on Twitter scrubbing wells s c r e b y and yeah happen to answer any questions overall like it can be as much work as you want it to be some of the big things is obviously you need to have a good location so FLGS is ideal maybe a I don't know what are some other places Vince that you could that you could do like oh like for locations like a gym for sure your local game store you like the VFW halls a classic that's what I'm looking for yeah you know anybody like the hotels and like if you've got the money if it's a larger tournament you can get a small room at the hotel like a ballroom that's pretty classic thing but you know your major things you're concerned with are you got to have a pack which there are sample packs available some of the great TOs in the in the country especially some of the more prolific TOs have put out you know sort of standardized packs you can use that give rules for like scoring and missions and painting to be specific on that all the different things you have to think about and take into account although again if you're doing like a one day RTT you can keep it pretty simple and Google tax then we'll do that Google old town throw down exactly right exactly right shit okay cool generic pack just google that and you'll you'll be taken right so it's great pack yep great great starter pack great advanced pack frankly like just good for what you need um you have to have that to terrain or like be at a store where they have terrain you can use that's oftentimes one of the biggest inhibitors especially as a as a tournament scales up you know you think about something like LVO you think about them needing to support 300 and potentially whether they have registered originally 400 and some players so whatever yeah whatever which that's you know 200 tables right each table let's say has seven or eight pieces of terrain let's just let's just let's just call eight for simplicity's sake so that means 1600 pieces of terrain yeah like that scales out of control fast yeah right so one of the reasons this is a thing we talked about Tyler last week the is that I think more people should run doubles tournaments like two on two because it packs like as far as like trying to break get into the black as a T.O. you get four people per table instead of two people per table right I mean like I've been really it's it's actually much easier to not lose money as a T.O. which is what most T.O.s are doing this out of the goodness and kindness their heart is not a money making opportunity and but this can help keep it in the black because you're just literally doubling your your your footprint right right it's like the difference in a restaurant world it's the difference between tables that are two tops and tables that are four tops like the more tables you can fit in that are four tops the better so yep so and yeah weird knobs is right hotels are so expensive anymore it's true yeah that does depend a lot on your local area like if you're if you're in a smaller town or in the sticks somewhere in the Midwest there's still some some hotels that'll that'll rent their their smaller ballrooms or stuff like that decently cheaply like local jurisdiction or local costs are going to very wildly across the country yeah that is for sure but yeah that kind of thing I mean I know here in town we use obviously or one of the a great tournament is Bruhammer and that's obviously run in a in like the big back room of a brewery like literally it's in the brewery room like where the big tanks are or whatever so right there's just there's options you never know who's who's willing to rent their space so you know lots of cool options but yeah hit me up and if yeah happy to answer or hit either of us happy to answer any questions obviously I mean that's a massive topic right that's that's a show in itself but maybe we should that might be good to to revisit that show yeah based on refresh that at some point so you wonder what a tournament yeah based on what I've learned yeah have learned in recent years yeah that'd be interesting absolutely I I agree Tyler buddy we did it man we kept it somehow under two hours no no we agree three minutes over thank god that's right oh sorry we kept it at around two hours you're right we we're still going to be over the two hour mark yeah we're not upset in awesome we've got quotes for 35,000 yeah that's that's insane like I've seen similar things where it's just like that's that's just so nuts and it's just it's just outrageous so yeah I mean that's Austin's pretty pretty crazy as far as I know but anyways hey all of you out there if you haven't hit like yet why don't you do that help other people find the show help other people find workota don't forget you can find the link for it down below it is free to download but if you want to throw Tyler a tip for all his hard work and all the testing and everything like that that would be a super cool thing to do you'll see find those links on the page but you can download the maps you can download the battle plans you can play them at home we'll see them in more events you do already have the week in the decadent where they're playing what using one of these is linked below but you can also find it linked on the workota site you'll see it like linked out there as well and check out all the other links don't forget to share do all those fun things if you want to support the show the best way you can do so this week is by tipping Tyler don't worry about all the other stuff down there there's a bunch of other things you could do don't worry about those if you are if for some or any reason inclined to give us any money that I would ask you to go put some put some money in Tyler's tip jar for all this excellent work with workota it's fantastic I know a bunch of these are going to be hitting my table soon I can't wait to play them yeah I mean relocation orb is like first up I mean new new relocation orb we're all excited about it it's I agree sickness that's that's like high on my list I'm gonna try to play it this weekend so for all of you out there thank you so much for watching Tyler thank you buddy appreciate all the hard work thanks for sharing this as always we appreciate you watching and we'll see you next Wednesday