Okay, so we're recording this without further ado I'm going to hand over the virtual floor to use the nobia to start your presentation. Thank you. Let me see if the screen sharing will go according to plan today. Let's see. Is this working for everyone. Okay, great. Thank you for having me on this series and thank you very much when for being here to talk about this research. It's a little bit niche nuclear security so I'm going to try and make it as broadly relatable to everyone as possible and different applications and security studies and more studies and defense studies of this research. This is a compilation of probably the last four years worth of research so there's a lot of different directions it goes in. And I'll just quickly walk you through that to start with how it came to be and why and where I hope it's going. And then I'll talk you through sort of our latest paper and data. And I'm really interested to see when what you think about that and how it can be more clear in what I'm saying because I'm good at sort of rambling in different directions. And also where I can take this next how to make it into something a bit more solid and big, maybe get some funding something in that direction.  I could really use your insight there. So I'm going to start with for everyone who's wondering what I'm talking about as Amanda said I work at things organizing workshops on nuclear security. And we're talking about civil nuclear industry in a bunch of different countries here. So that's usually very typically a three day activity in a country like Saudi Arabia or South Africa, and we work with professionals who work at labs or power plants or universities or hospitals. And these are quite, they can be introductory courses they can be very in depth. So the first thing we look at is security culture, and my background isn't in security I trained as an archaeologist, which means that maybe I observed some things that people hadn't considered when I started teaching these courses and one of these things was how we were communicating and the language we were communicating in how this affected our teaching and how it had an impact on the learning of the people we were interacting with. Because for example in South Africa there's 11 official languages to start with and then dozens and dozens more on official languages. So they come together in a company and they all try to communicate in English. And that's a very typical thing in the nuclear fields. There's the International Atomic Energy Agency, and they maintain a couple of official languages Russian and Arabic are also on the list. But mostly all the official information is first and foremost communicated in English and the guidance is in English and people try to adapt to this as well so if you're working in nuclear industry in Turkey. So I became very interested in how does that impact security practices. And as you can see from the timeline and papers I created we started by looking at security and education, but this has since evolved a little bit in just generally how do you access information, and then what information is available in the first place so we've sort of gone a little bit in the direction of intelligence and especially open source intelligence as well. And what I'd really like to do with all of this is maybe, you know, get like some nice big postdoctoral funding or I'd be really interested in having a big edited book as well with examples from different countries in different cultures. I just don't really know how to get it off the ground combined with my other research and projects of Kings and ever seem to be able to focus it into something clear that someone will be interested in. And especially at the moment I'm actually on maternity leave. And so I'm producing everything with one hand. That's also why my slides today have a lot of text on them it's mainly for me to remember what I'm talking about, because I'm not even sure what day in time it is right now. Yeah, one of the things that I really wanted to highlight today in the discussion is just language diversity, because we have had a lot of discussions in the nuclear field the last couple years about other imbalances like gender imbalance. I put a picture here of one of our workshops recently where we had 50 people attending, and four of them were women. And that's with us already trying to make an effort this was. This is an example of failure I'd say rather than success. But there's, there's other imbalances as well in my opinion and one of them is language so that's what I want to focus on now the same workshop the picture underneath. So we have a lot of people from more than a dozen countries. These were all Arabic speaking countries, but not all Arabic is the same, which is something that's often assumed when you're producing international guidelines and information just use modern standard Arabic everyone will get it. That's something I'm really interested in looking into how we can talk about nuclear security and make clear what it's about and avoid confusion and avoid miscommunication in different languages and investigates what's the role of English and when do we need to not to use English. And that's also goes into the writing systems we use so a big there's a big difference in Latin or Roman writing versus Arabic writing or another one we've looked at is Korean Japanese Hindi Chinese. And it just doesn't always directly translate the same way or mean the same thing. When you go between languages when you go between writing systems. And that can be difficult because very many nuclear projects have a lot of levels to them.  They don't assume the same understanding and educational background for everyone. So, why, why has language not really been on the agenda so far in how we work and how we teach, because in a lot of other industries it's already been acknowledged that that's really really important to avoiding confusion to avoiding safety accident security incidents. So this is something I'm interested in just gathering some proper academic data on a nuclear context. Because every time I mentioned this to someone the person on the other side will say oh yeah yeah that's interesting that's probably relevant yes I've had a problem with that before, but there's there's no no data collection so far there's no databases. We know it's of interest that we don't really know what we're doing. I even talked about what was on this slide, but anyway, the example I wanted to mention is aviation industry it's another really high risk industrial sector just like nuclear industry. And I think it's already 10 or 20 years ago they've developed an official aviation English but even before that the last century as aviation has been developing. It was acknowledged that everyone needs to be on the same language page, because otherwise you get issues of the pilot calling the airport and people misunderstanding each other when you're going between so many different countries on a daily basis all the time. There's different acronyms in different countries there's just different ways of expressing things, and that can be really important if you're landing a plane and you need to circle back around. If you don't communicate that clearly and directly straight away. There's that can be big problems and in aviation there have been direct examples of accidents happening because the communication wasn't clear. So I think this is a really useful industry to draw some comparisons from to draw some data from so there are misunderstandings they can be a problem. And there can be this. Yeah, this disconnect so to illustrate this in a nuclear field I've been looking at the difference between safety and security as an example. This is a really quite well known example if you're looking at the field of linguistics there's there's a couple papers on just the safety security translation issue in general unrelated to nuclear. So that's what I've been working with as an example but there, there can be lots of different ways to look at this. But just to illustrate I asked a couple of colleagues and friends from different countries from Bulgaria from Japan. Can you tell me how would you describe what safety is how would you describe what security is, and it just has different connotations and different cultures. For example when I, I put some on the slide here but when I talked to a friend in Turkey they said safety that's when you care for another person security that's the police. So it can mean very different things to different people also individually not just the country and the language. And in a lot of languages it, there's not even two words for it in most languages there's just one word that means both safety and security. And in a couple of languages there's multiple words so you specify you know food safety and health safety there's those are different words and different concepts, which I'm trying to say in English now doesn't translate very well. Anyway, the point I'm making is, even if we were translating all of our teaching materials in nuclear security. And even if we were translating all the nice IAA guides on physical protection and important aspects of security at nuclear sites. The translation, it can't just be, you know, a Google translate direct thing you have to understand the context of the country and the facility you're translating it for. So, one of the projects I did the last year or two was trying to see what information is there about nuclear security to start with. This is something I've worked on with many colleagues including some from King's College. Particularly, I worked with someone from Turkey and someone from Jordan and someone from the US but with knowledge of India to see what information is there anyway about nuclear security and is this accurate. If you're finding it, is this something that's been directly translated and does that make sense to you if you're reading it in a different language. And if you're looking for it, what exactly will you end up with, because a really unique thing about the nuclear field is that it's very secretive, necessarily so. And a lot of documents will be classified so if you're working at the nuclear side those things won't be online on the internet. That's necessary. However, if you are for example a student, or you are someone who's looking to join the field or someone who's been working in the field that wants to switch jobs to a different country. What information can you access that's not classified. And that's something that we as researchers could look into because that's something that we can also access just to open sources on the internet. So we decided to explore that aspect to see what information is there and is that useful. So here's the first example of a case study we did on Turkey don't mind all the tiny tiny print on the slide. Basically what I want to illustrate is if you are doing a search in English for security or safety. Almost all the sources you'll get will be about nuclear energy. So we typed into Google advanced search really specifically nuclear security, but then all the information you get are actually about nuclear energy. And nuclear security sort of came second as a category. And also notably, all of it was related to the civil nuclear field and none of it to, for example, nuclear weapons or non proliferation, even though Turkey does have some involvement with that with NATO. So it's quite curated what's available on the internet. And then when we looked for nuclear safety, most things in Turkey came from the nuclear regulator, but there wasn't any other related information. There was some information about earthquake risk in Turkey, which is very specific to the region and environmental protest. But again, the main sort of the bulk of the pages weren't necessarily nuclear safety themes. It's just a word that might be mentioned somewhere at some point. And then we looked at what happens if you look for the same for the same information in Turkish. And you can see it's still nuclear energy is the main category but also, I think, can I go back between slides here. Yeah, I can. You can see there's actually less information. So there's fewer pages, there's fewer search results in Turkish and also there's fewer categories of information. So if you were someone who's working in the nuclear field in Turkey looking for information about nuclear security, you're better off looking for it in English than in Turkish. And also, the graph I have on the right here is how accurate it was. So if we looked for nuclear security, does the web page actually talk about security or about something else usually safety. And you can see that mostly it was accurate but actually a fairly significant percentage of the searches were also inaccurate. I can't remember from the top of my head now something like 10% or something of the information was not actually translated correctly, or described correctly, because of this confusion between what is safety what is security. As I said this was just one example safety and security you can apply this to other concepts as well like risk and threat is another really big one. There's more of them. So we looked at this in a couple different countries looked in India as well. English is a really big language in India. And there's there's many languages there, but we compared it to Hindi for our own sort of ease for the for the research for the search to start with. I've got some information on other languages as well that I won't be into that now. Again, you can see the difference there's more information in English than there is in Hindi. And also in Hindi safety and security is the same word so there was only one search there. Anyway, so all the categories combined in Hindi there were fewer of them. But of course if you look at the two separate leaders, there's more. And again we looked at what was accurate and what was inaccurate and for India this was much better and we suspect this is because there is also a better command of English particularly in the nuclear fields which is usually a lot of people will put this information out on the Internet will be highly educated or they will be working on quite a high level as engineers and things like this. So they will have been educated in English sometimes in England. So the information in India that was available in English was a lot more high quality than it was in Turkey. And then we also looked at Jordan so Turkey they've, they're in the process of completing a nuclear power plant right now, India they've had nuclear power for decades as well as nuclear weapons, Jordan they don't have a nuclear power plant. They do have a nuclear research reactor. So that's what we would describe as really like a country that's very new to nuclear. So what's the, what's the information availability there. Is there is there anything is it useful. You can see this difference between English and Arabic. There's much, much less in Arabic and I haven't put the numbers in here but we have something like only 30 or 40 search results in general of anything nuclear related in Arabic. And there's much more in English, which I think is really interesting for a country that hasn't even sort of like developed anything nuclear yes already English is the dominant language there and not not the old national language. So much more of it was inaccurate because a lot of the Arabic information was direct Google translate from English and then safety and security get mixed up and other concepts get mixed up. So the inaccuracy of the information increased. We did also have a little look at like all what happens if you look at other countries in Arabic so for example United Arab Emirates they've been operating a power plant for a couple years now. It's actually fairly similar information availability or in availability and inaccuracy to Jordan. I just don't have the data on the slide here. So that's, that's a couple case studies to look at. And I think what's really important here is just this this cultural aspect really goes missing when you're looking for information about nuclear security so on the left here is an image that a colleague of mine made for one of our zoom workshops last year. And she decided to ask the audience in colloquial Turkish about how they felt about the security of of nuclear in Turkey. So not using any of the the professional terminology that we use in the workshop, but just common expressions from Turkey, and this resulted one in a lot more interaction in the workshop but also to in just a better understanding it's not so. It's not so abstract when you're talking about it with each other in that way. I think that's really important because yeah you you might express things differently depending on where you are and who you're talking to, and to take that into your professional communication to make sure everything is clear and everything is understood. So, just in summary of that. As I said, in India, a lot of information is available in English rather than Hindi or other languages. So it does make sense if you're focusing on what information to make available on how to do it to maybe do that in English. And then for Turkey. It, it's sort of the opposite where you might encourage people to learn English professionally but you want to avoid confusion at any point so at the moment the power plant they're building it's being sponsored by Russia so they're having conversations between Russian and English and Turkish, where no one has full command of any of the other two languages. I also not expected that all the Russians learn Turkish and all the Turkish personnel learn Russian. So, you have to take that into account when you're, you know, like us doing our teaching but also publishing any information or when you are onboarding new personnel when you are looking at what students are doing in university right now where that's going. And then for Jordan, as I mentioned at the start, the main issue we encountered there is that a lot of information is a modern standard Arabic and not necessarily regional. I've had conversations with colleagues in Egypt about this as well where they say oh they've the IAA when they do use regional Arabic it's usually sort of Levant Arabic and not more African Arabic and there's different ways in which things can be expressed that can be more clear to people in different regions. So, just on a final note on that as well. As I said, this has gone a little bit from we were looking at nuclear language in teaching and how it works in the workplace and whether there might be confusion but then we went a little bit in the intelligence direction so what information is available, what can you do with that. Is that is that useful or not and why. And part of that is also how and whether you can use the internet. So as I said as researchers this was an easy way for us to start looking into nuclear language and nuclear information we can use open source. So I'm based in the UK and one of my colleagues was based in the US and there's very high internet access and availability there. But then for Turkey that's about 70% for Jordan 66 and then in India if you look at the whole country it's around 35%. So that information availability. It might be there for me but not for everyone else. And then, on top of that you have to take into account that's usually going to be available to people who are from a wealthier background if you have a house and electricity and internet. So if you don't how are you going to learn anything about nuclear so let alone if you are someone who works in nuclear industry or studies nuclear engineering. How will you know about your country's power plants or nuclear weapons if you can't even access any of the information or understand it properly. That's that's another sort of direction we've gone in with this research in general nuclear awareness versus information availability information access. And we did have some useful suggestions in the end so. I'm sorry if it's not clear but separating between suggestions for nuclear industry and suggestions for open source intelligence for nuclear industry. We do think it makes sense to match the education to specific context you're working in and I realized that's not a very sort of novel conclusion. But you know now we've tested it and now we've got some data so it's not just people saying it's from experience or hearing that we know for sure now. And we do also think that it's useful to keep in mind that sort of common language like aviation uses so I guess it doesn't have to be English and a lot of countries in practice Russian I haven't even talked about that. But to make sure that everyone has access to learning that language and understanding that language and that you can talk through it. And in native language versus the common language to make sure it's actually understood rather than just sort of imposed or applied.  Or should we put some more effort into, you know, translating the materials into different types of Arabic, or both, who knows. And then, on sort of more the, the OS inside of things. We did think that by looking at nuclear security as an example. The questions. What only available information is there anyway. Our online search is useful and if you want to learn more about this and the answer is not especially. So, can you find information in languages that aren't English, not really do things get mistranslated. Yes, they do. So, not only if you're a person who is working in a nuclear field are interested in joining a nuclear field. It's not only important to those people but also if you are, for example, trying to do some research on it, like I do in academia, but perhaps also in other contexts. What sort of information can you really find from a country and it's not only that it's shielded and secured, which is what the countries generally want. But also what is there is actually not necessarily accurate, which can then give the wrong impression and lead to things like, what are the words like this information and it can actually mean that the information gets used in the wrong way basically. So, even if you want to protect all your really sensitive information it's important that what is available out there is actually correct and used in the right way and understood in the right way. Because nuclear is a pretty, pretty big thing to misunderstand geopolitically. So, yeah, what I really want to say from the combined research is that I think it's useful to look at not just English when you're discussing nuclear security, not only in acquiring information but also in publishing information. To really clarify some key concepts in different languages, because it does influence security practices and it does prevent accidents. I think that was it. Yeah, thanks. Thank you, Zenobia there's certainly a lot of food for thought there and I think what you know was made clear too is that the serious risks involved in the in the lost in translation. Lots to sink our teeth into for sure I'm going to pass the virtual floor over to win for some of his general or more specific comments and commentary. Okay, thank you Amanda and thank you Zenobia for your talk and also you sent me a couple of papers beforehand so I can have a sort of more in depth read looking at the research to. It's a fascinating subject area right I mean you you make the part that is quite niche. And it is quite nice right because we're talking about, you know, some very narrow sort of subject matter. But the importance of linguistics and linguistic differences I think is really really important not just in the nuclear security area but in security in a much broader sense right they can get you into. A lot of trouble I mean you know you just think about, you know, the concept of deterrence for example in the nuclear area in a broader sort of sense is quite it's quite complicated right the Russians look, you know the Russian view the French view that different uses of language and whether they actually have the right terms themselves. So I think you've done a good job I think in the in the research demonstrating the importance of nuance in nuclear language, the miscommunication potential. I think through the through the three case studies Turkey India Jordan you've, you've I think identified some important questions so that the research kind of comes up with questions, well should we be doing this and should we be doing that. You know, the question of is information accurate in a different language when it sort of translated across. So I think some of the important points you make around in the paper. So about, should we be matching education and training to specific information needs of nuclear power program, you could power programs, you know, for human resource development, for example. You talk about, you know, nuclear English and whether that's we should be pursuing that taking the lead from the aviation area I think that's a really interesting and important question. You do make the point you know about this diversity aspect and the inclusion aspect is about, you know, do we need to look beyond these internationally dominant languages right and spend a lot of effort trying to make nuclear security related information accessible, you know, and so that it's published in different languages, etc. Although that obviously would take a quite resource challenge there to be able to do that. And you make the important point to that nuclear, the nuclear sector whether it's military or civil in nature is very secretive right so that's a key underpinning factor here to is that much much nuclear security information for very good reason is not open and accessible as well. So really interesting set a couple of readings and join listening to you talk now. I've got three main points but before I do that listening to you talk about this is a bit of a back to the future moment for me so from 2001 2006 you know I worked with colleagues at Kings on on a lot of open source work looking at nuclear safeguards issues rather than nuclear security issues. So the distinction is more is about making sure that countries that have civil nuclear programs don't transfer their nuclear material into a weapons program, so it's safeguarding against that. And we did a lot of work at Kings on that for for many years, and we used to work in different languages, you know, so we did a lot of work in English, obviously, but we did a lot of work in local languages to including Turkish actually, but also, you know, Arabic and other local languages to of interest. One of the things I remember there was we used to do a lot of content comparison on national atomic energy agency websites. So the National Authority, and we weren't looking at content comparison for accuracy, you know, in terms of the language but just in terms of the, just the sort of the raw content. Are they saying things in one language in more detail than they would be in English. And we were looking at that in terms of transparency issues so looking at in a different way, but it doesn't make me sort of come back to this issue of yeah this is really important stuff very interesting stuff. We used to do a lot of specialized searching to around much more granular terminology, mostly in English, you know, related to parts of the uranium enrichment process for example. It would be interesting to see whether we could, you could do that in by taking Europe right which is seeing whether or not you can develop you know a glossary of different of these very specific terms to use across different languages and what you get from that. Anyway, I'll stop reminiscing. So, I got I got three three general points to make the first point, I think, is around the audience for the work for the papers. And I think across reading the papers and listening to you today. There are various, various audiences for this work right there's researchers there's nuclear operators nuclear regulators, academics, policymakers nuclear security professionals, I think you mentioned journalists at one point in there too. I think what would would be good going forward is to perhaps have a bit more clarity around the audience, which this research is focused on. So really these are really, really important issues. Absolutely. Totally get that. But sometimes I was asking the so what question you know the academic so what question. And yes there's a so well because we know it but actually I think the clarity over the audience would help with that so what bit. So, and it will help with laying out objectives of the work to. Part of this might be working through is the priority for the work you're doing. Nuclear security and making sure things don't happen. Or actually you're more interested in the inclusive bit to make sure that you know everybody has an opportunity to understand the issues involved. So I think that's that's my first general point. My second point is about is more of a pet issue I suppose a little bit is about open source, open source intelligence as a discipline. So, as academics. All we do is deal with open source information of one various type, but most people in an academic sense wouldn't label that as as open source intelligence as such. I struggle a little bit with the idea that open source intelligence is a discipline. I think it's a method to achieve an end, which is you have a research problem and you apply open source intelligence to that research problem. I'm more comfortable with thinking of open source intelligence as something that's done in the private sector. I think it's time to that you know it's something that you know when you've got very specific research problems that is something that is done in academia to anyway that's one of my pet issues is like you know is this a real discipline by itself. And then my final point actually no it's not my final point. I got some more from listening to you talk I've got more points. So my final sort of point that I've thought about before you start speaking was around some of the examples that you use. It's a real area to go forward with. So you talk about the nuclear power plant, being built in the UAE by the KEPCO from South Korea. And you talk about, you know, two dozen country people from two dozen countries involved in the construction of that and the multiple scripts problem that generates. I'm wondering whether actually, you know, the UAE and the South Koreans are quite open to have conversations actually with people I mean I've, I've had conversations with officials from both countries on the nuclear side for different projects in the past. I'm wondering whether or not you could actually just approach them and just ask them about right okay you know is this a problem in that sort of practical hands on sense, you know, it may not be a problem so I think that could be one really interesting area to drill down going forward. And it's a general point to I think what one of the paper quotes in the paper you've got is real life case studies and practical solutions remain limited right and that's, that's a challenge for a project like this. And I think it's how can you prize open those case studies as examples that you can really drill down into the other one obviously you talked about the International Civil Aviation Organization and the lessons. I'm wondering whether or not you could draw those lessons, really specifically the nuclear security area and potentially look at the lessons and just you could create some surveys you could do some research interviews with practitioners in the nuclear security area to ask the same sort of questions to start generating a sense of what a sense of what practitioners in the security area think, think is whether there's sort of read across or not. And that could then in itself help to generate research questions and ideas that you could then you could then look at. I think, you know, this was my project, what I would be thinking about doing is like the next step for me would be trying to understand whether there have been incidents or accidents related to nuclear security, where language has been a problem, because of linguistic differences, and the various other things that you identified. I know that's difficult, because companies and governments sometimes don't like to talk about whether they've been problems. It's so valuable if you could try to see whether that has been an issue so I guess I guess field work. I'll finish off by you talk about funding. You know as an area to discuss. I think I go back to my point I think it may be worthwhile doing some field work some interviewing in a light sense, just to start to pull together some interesting research questions and go from there. I think you could make a case for you know looking at the civil aviation or authority organization. I'm looking at the read across there if that hasn't been done properly before because I think that's a really interesting area. And I mentioned the KEPCO one in South Korea to the final thing I'd say is and this is I say to most academics. You mentioned an edited book. And the first thing I thought why not edited book why not a authored or co-authored book. It's much better for you in terms of academic progression to have authored or co-authored books against against your name. I've been interested in hearing what other case studies you might think about looking at, you know, the on the three that you've worked with colleagues on so far. And then also just then going back to that the audience of that book who that book be with that book be targeted at. And so I'll stop there I've talked for too long, but fascinating area really enjoyed reading the papers and listen to you talk so I hope those comments have been vaguely useful. Thank you so much. I think your first comment on who the audiences is. That's very helpful. Because it started out as the audiences the people we teach in the workshop so nuclear operators regulators. I do think I will try and like explain myself better in that looking at inclusion will then lead to improving security. I think the two are connected is what we sort of realized along the way. So when, when everyone at the, the organization we're working with is included in the communication that you can prevent security incidents. So inclusion leads to security. But yeah, the main audience to start with was was the audience from the workshops. I also agree that I'm also a little bit new to OSIN this discipline which is why I titled my presentation information rather than open source intelligence because I do see it as working with information in different ways as a researcher. So, yeah, I get that one. And let me see. Yeah, so about working with for example, aviation. I got the idea because someone was already doing that. So I attended a presentation at INMM one time, where some researchers had been looking at the comparison between nuclear industry and aviation. So I don't want to steal that from them but also it's not actually published anywhere. So the next step there is to maybe get in touch with them and see where that's at. And then about doing some fieldwork that's exactly what I've been trying to do the last sort of two years. But I, my funding applications keep getting rejected. And then on top of that, we got COVID pandemic. So I had to auto rejections last year where they just said we won't consider it because you can't travel anyway. And a lot of the interesting things are kind of tied to being on site in how comfortable people are talking, but also access to people in general, like the site we work with in South Africa, a lot of people, I wouldn't be able to zoom them. So it is a little bit fieldwork dependent, which is a little bit funding dependent. I just need to make my argument better, I suppose. And which the same goes for collecting some examples of nuclear incidents related to language. I have a strong feeling they are there because we look at nuclear security so much and nuclear security culture and culture ties in with communication. So a lot of the security culture examples we have of accidents in the past are related to how people communicate just not necessarily how it's translated so that's the next thing that I'd really like to get some details on. But it's difficult to get people to open up about that understandably. And the other region I'm really interested in looking at for case studies is countries that use Russian as a language rather than English. So I've been working with a colleague from Belarus on on a paper for this for the IAA conference in Moscow this summer. But it's been quite difficult to get people from other countries involved so I'd really like to work with someone from Ukraine, maybe also any country in Central Asia that uses Russian to develop some case studies that aren't completely centered around English, because I do have some data from colleagues in Belarus in Ukraine that they have some issues translating directly between Russian and their own languages. And issues translating between Russian and their own language and English as well. So I think that's another really interesting direction to go in. I've also talked to colleagues in South America about English versus Spanish versus Portuguese and other local languages. And I've even had a colleague from Canada bring up, not just the difference between English and French, but they are concerned that there's no information about anything nuclear for any anyone who doesn't speak English and French in Canada. So that's very niche, but still to me very interesting. And then, yeah, the last point you made about a book is everyone tells me that I should offer my own book for academic purposes. It's just, I guess I'm not as academic at heart. And I'm more interested in in the in the nuclear industry side of things. So I'd really like to showcase different examples from different people from different countries and gather them together and also a little bit give them more of a platform to have another book written by someone in the UK about this but really have some some chapters from people from different countries and from different organizations. So that's not so good for me, but my my interest there really is sort of the diversity in the field. But maybe you know maybe what I need to do is both. I think that's excellent responses there. I think on the with the research grant site. I wonder whether you need to convince somebody up your chain of command in Kings to give you some seed seed funding to do some initial feed work because I think sometimes you need to do a little bit of field work to be able to put together some strong research applications, grant applications, because it just gives that granularity to it. You know if you can demonstrate through conversations already that there's a research problem here. And here's the evidence for it. We just need to dig into that. And that's why I was finally the funding so perhaps go to suggest names but perhaps I'm going to give you some seed money to do that. So along that note choose no be I think, I guess it depends how you frame the question or, you know, the intent to folks and sort of conversation but I was actually quite surprised at what people talk about over zoom now, and I don't know if we've just all got interested or used to zoom over the last two years but you know I have, I have a colleague who's working on issues of sexual based gender violence, which is a very sensitive topic and she's been able to conduct interviews with perpetrators of the violence and victims as well over zoom, and they feel comfortable having those conversations which normally you would think you could not have that conversation satellite. But I don't know if this is changing now because again people are getting used to more of a virtual space. You know additionally someone you might want to talk to is Claudia Airdow with her massive EU grant on migrants crossing the border, which is also a very politically sensitive discussion where she's actually interviewing and they've developed certain interview strategies because of COVID they couldn't go face to face but how they could have certain conversations while still protecting these people's identity so I think there is some strategies out there and if it's just about, you know, establishing some, some sort of basis for a problem for then which to apply you know to talk to people further up the chain at King's or for the grant money if you can at least demonstrate like when said there's a problem here so that just might be something not to totally foreclose because I get that I felt that way too there's certain conversations you can't have online but now apparently there are conversations you can have online so it's just yet it's it's it's fielding that out. This, that's, that's my two cents on research field work and the virtual space. We have a question here by Santiago Sandra who says hi everyone is there any written resource like a dictionary or glossary about nuclear security where anyone could search a specific word. There is the IAA does have a nuclear security glossary an official one in, I think five or six languages, and a lot of countries will have their own unofficial ones as well. The issue I have with those is that they're usually yeah literally like a list of translations what's the word for that rather than explaining why something is translated in that way so the IAA glossary for Russian has a couple of translators notes and also the one for Spanish I think saying we decided to explain this in this way for these reasons or this is just an addition to what this means after you've translated it but they've done that for maybe six words or something. So, there are translations but you just have to trust that you understand them and that they are right. So they're not very sort of practically useful translations and also yeah the IAA only officially does it for a couple of languages. So for example Turkish doesn't have one. Okay, great. And then we had someone in the chat box. Oh, same word Santiago is just says you know greetings from Argentina so you have a global audience here is the novia and says really great presentation so yeah I mean this is so much food for thought and I can't wait to see how this, you know how how you're thinking about this and what sort of projects derive from this that you know taking this forward I look forward to continuing these conversations with you. So no via for sure. And again want to thank you and win so much for taking the time out of your day. Thank you so much for leaving the novia for for having this conversation with us. So, and thank you so much for the audience for you know for listening in and engaging with with this work so those are my final comments I don't know if you'd like to say. Thank you for for inviting me for this and for having a listen to my research. It's been really interesting so thank you. Okay great and for those of you who still want to learn more about the novia's work she will have a blog post coming out with critical military studies in due course so please watch out for that. And since this presentation has also been recorded so if you've missed some of it or if you want to watch it again, or circulated amongst your networks, please watch the space you'll be on war studies YouTube channel but also circulated through the school security studies, Twitter and Facebook handles. And thank you so much everyone and have a great afternoon. Thanks no via.


Hi, how you doing today? This is Richard and we have a rich TV live with a very special guest. It is Mark Geene, the founder of Speak Easy. How you doing today, Mark? I'm doing well. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me.  Sure. So I mean you can't really mention Speak Easy and start talking about that until you understand where we come from, what we've done. Some of fourth generation BC farmer. My great-grandfather came to the Okanagan around the turn of the century. My grandfather took after him, my dad after him, and I'm taking after my dad. So we've sort of passed the family farm down. We moved up to the Rock Creek area in 95, bought a 2500 acre ranch to grow ginseng, and it's, we've stayed ever since. So it's it's a pretty cool lineage. It's a lot of fun having that much knowledge in the family. Pretty much any condition on any plant, someone in the family has some experience with it. So we went through an industry crash with with ginseng. They started doing production in China, which which destroyed the market in North America. Planted cherries. We were growing that up until last year and transitioned into cannabis in 2013. We were the 46th applicant under the MMPR and just have been battling with Health Canada ever since. We've seen three regime changes and the Cannabis Act and all that thing we've been up to date on all that. So it's it's been a it's been a kind of a wild ride, but in the interim we were you know, we were farming cherries and stuff. So we feel that you know cannabis is just another crop. Like it's a special crop. It's an amazing thing and it comes with more culture connected to it than any other crop you can grow, but it is essentially just a crop. So my parents who somehow made it through the whole 60s without ever smoking were all over it just because it's it's an exciting venture. It's another way of a cash crop. So I mean we didn't have any stigma attached to it. It was just it was just moving on to the next stage. So it's been great. It's been amazing growing with my family. My brother is by my side every day. I've worked with my dad. I've worked with him for 20-something years now. So it's been it's been great and that that's sort of the beginning of speakeasy. We look at the production processing of cannabis exactly the same as we would with with cherries. You know, you would you would grow a high quality crop. We were able to grow successfully in our Creek because it's a later season than the Okanagan. So the prices followed the the the major times of harvest. So the the glad of the market lowest price Rock Creek because it's on the furthest end of the scale prices would always come up and we got to where the cherries were on the tree 24 hours later they're in Japan or China or East Coast of the United States. So logistically moving things through with the number of people the processing, cooling, hydro-cooling, packing, shipping and getting over there within a 24-hour period is is quite a feat. So it's it's it's a lot of moving parts and we were able to take that and move it directly into cannabis production. Very good. Now I'm gonna ask you a quick question. So what would you you guys are craft growers, correct? We're craft growers at scale. So we take we take that that like you can't produce a high-quality product without having someone that really knows exactly what they're doing on a mass scale because that person can only spread so far. You know it you have to have that attention to detail that that hyper focus. So to be able to do that on scale you need a whole bunch of people that are able to have that skill set.  So getting two or three farmers all step and all reach their toes and it's a really difficult thing. So what we've done is is even though it's under one LP, we've made five distinct LP. So that's their own show. They've we've built the facilities to their. Sorry, are they subsidiaries within the company? They're individuals. So there's actually three separate buildings. Okay. Two of the buildings have two floors and then the first LP that we're licensed for now. So there will be a grower for two buildings. Two of the buildings that have two floors will have two growers in them each. And then the first LP will just have the one. So yeah, it's essentially, I don't want Health Canada to hear this, but it will essentially be like four or five separate LPs even though Speakeasy the company handles all of the compliance and they will be 100% compliant. But so that allows each of those growers to pay hyper focus to their craft grower. So rooms will be 64 lights per room in like eight separate rooms. So they're able to style it just like a graph grow, but on scale. Can I ask you a quick question? So I've spoken to private guys and I've spoken to public guys. The private guys are telling me that the reason that the public sector is having trouble is that they're trying to build these massive facilities like you kind of mentioned and it's really difficult to build these massive facilities and manage these huge Grows.  It's easier to manage these small crops than it is to manage these large crops. Do you think that's why we're starting to see this? Retraction in the sector because a lot of the bigger growers that spent a lot of money trying to be first movers have started to realize that they need to downscale in order to actually produce a quality product. Is this what you think is causing this this reset in the sector? Do you think that that's the reason why we're having such a reset in the sector? So it's it's it's a number of things. That's definitely one of them. Health Canada really hurt at us. They steered us in a direction and then the public markets did the same thing. So you get these companies companies in what investors wanted to hear is we're going to be the biggest. We're going to be the best. We're going to produce it the the the most cheapest and the most. Yeah, so what that causes all these guys to go well, how can we build this in fast? Let's throw up a greenhouse. So they threw up greenhouse, which is far like growing indoors is far superior growing in greenhouse. So now when we're at a position in the market where it's starting to become more competitive, it's not you don't have to look into a crystal ball. You just have to look at Colorado and California and Washington State and Oregon to see what's going to happen in a mature market. And people don't want average, a BC black market.  Yeah, nobody wants it. Nobody wants it. There is too much good quality product. Good quality product doesn't cost any more than poor quality. Like if you're looking at a room, you have set costs, costs of the facility, the the power, everything except for the final trim because you're going to have more in the room. Those costs are set, those costs are consistent. And to grow a high quality product, which generally ends up with more pounds per square foot, you will end up with a cheaper product than Dartmouth. So if you can't do it properly, if your facility is not set up to be able to handle to give these farmers the best chance to do it, so aka a greenhouse versus indoor, you're going to lose. Like there's just no real way around it. So with Health Canada forcing us into the regulations that they've put out, with the public markets forcing us to you know, be the best, be the best, be the biggest, it created this massive pile of A bubble, essentially. It was a bubble that burst, right? It's unfortunate, but it's true. So what what makes you guys different? Are you guys going to be able to have better competitive pricing and a higher quality product? Is that what's going to make speakeasy rise to the top? So when we when we originally got into it, the pipe dream was like maybe someday they'll be able, we'll be able to grow outdoor. So outdoor in Rock Creek is just it's I mean I hate when people come up and say best biggest Dominic anything like that, but it is a phenomenal area to grow like it's been that area and right through to Nelson have been the backbone of BC's weed market for 50 years, like a long time. So we know the strains that work there. We know the exactly the conditions we can expect. So it's really dialed in. Not many places around Canada have that same. Anywhere east of the Rockies, you know Anywhere east of probably Nelson, you start getting into areas where you're not going to be able to grow outdoors. You get too far to the coast and it's too wet. So this is little green zone a beautiful spot. Ours is called the Golden Mile. The area from Asuius up to Ok Falls is intensive farming and just perfect condition. Wine country kind of thing. We're just over the hill a little bit up, but it's just an absolutely outstanding area. So our cost of production to produce a finished gram of outdoors is four cents a gram. That's the lowest I've ever heard. Yeah, and it's four cents a gram. Wow. It's a that's amazing. We expect to pull off fifty thousand pounds next year at four cents a gram and then have another hundred and twenty thousand pounds of biomass and that comes in for distillate of about four hundred and eighty dollars a kilogram. Right now it's selling for about fifteen to eighteen thousand. But I mean if you look down the states price for isolate has come from, you know, fifteen twenty thousand dollars down to about three thousand. Crazy. Yeah, but at two thousand dollars a kilogram we can multiple of four profit side. I mean it's it's just they talk about Columbia, they talk about, you know, producing all these cheap areas. But because we're able to mechanize and because of our proprietary extraction methods you can't produce it any cheaper than you can down here. And then they're also faced with the cost of shipping and entrance tax and all that other stuff. So for our for our extracts it's gonna be tough to be just anywhere in the world. That's really impressive. Are you guys only focused in Canada? Are you guys looking to expand internationally? What's your guys plan right now? Our plan is to we need to build a street cred, right? We totally, you can't build it off marketing because there's no marketing.  We want to grow the best product in the world. Great. And we want to own BC and then we want to own Canada and then we want to move everywhere else. But it's all going to be based on our reputation. It's not going to be because we beat down somebody or have more money of them. It's because people want our product and that's our plan. So we've got to start in BC. And if you can be respected in British Columbia, you're doing pretty well because it's a tough market out there. Oh yeah. I mean this is the market in Canada and really the market in the world when it comes to cannabis. Absolutely. Yeah. It's in shambles right now because of what's going on but we're not the only guys that are going to do this. But there's other fantastic growers that are small right now that will come in but anybody that produces like we're going to or some of the other guys, they can instantly take off the shelf whatever else is out there. Like their gram will displace anybody else's gram. Are you familiar with Gary Varnachuk, the large social media guy, Gary V? Yeah. Gary V is a huge cannabis enthusiast. What he said is that the cannabis sector reminds him of the tech sector. Exactly. And the guys that are going to be the best may not have even entered into the market yet. Exactly. And that it's just the early stages and he believes that it's not even the first inning. He said that we're not even in the first inning. We're not even throwing out the first pitch. So a lot of people are throwing money at this thinking they're going to get rich overnight. But the real money is going to come in for the people that are strategic, that are patient, that wait for the biggest and the best to really evolve. And then that's going to be the opportunity to hit it. So it's really the next 5, 10 years. And it's right now it's kind of like everyone's racing to be first but really they're racing to be first to blow all their money. Right? Isn't that what's happening right now? So a lot of that is in the public market, right? So the guys would every week. Because you have shareholder, we're a public company as well. And you have shareholders just like, what's going on now? We haven't heard for more weeks. Of course. You have to generate this news and so they would be constantly looking around for something that they probably wouldn't do if they had time to think about it and had the patience of the market. But because everyone's jamming everything down your throat and you have to get something done, a lot of these big companies that have been in it for a while have just made errors because they've been forced. Because they were first. Everyone's going to love this. They're going to make our stock pop and then we can do this. So they'll buy some asset in Columbia that's never going to go anywhere. I've heard those stories. Yeah. My goodness. And you know, it's funny. Aurora Cannabis is everywhere. Yeah. Yet they may go bankrupt, right? This is what everybody's saying. Yet their product is everywhere. And then Cannaby Growth has tons of money. But from what I hear, their product is not that good. So it's kind of funny that you've got two of the biggest in the world that were first movers. One who's everywhere in Aurora and has a lot of big branding and is on every shelf across the country. But yet they're running out of money. And then you've got this other giant in Cannaby Growth who's got Drake. They've got Snoop Dogg. They've got Martha Stewart. They've got Seth Rogen. They've got all this great branding. They've got all this money. But yet nobody likes their product. Yeah. This is what we kind of find in the cannabis sector. So I believe there are opportunities for companies like yourself. 100%. To rise above this. We have to be able to compete with the black market. Totally. Cannabis black market is probably the highest quality in the world. Absolutely. We are competing against a group that is unregulated, that is far cheaper because they don't have to do certain things. And they can go wherever they want as quick as they want. You want to expand today? Fine. Go down to the grocery shop and buy some stuff. Let's go. They don't pay tax. They don't pay the government. However, they do pay massive surcharges for transportation and things quiet. Yeah, I guess so. Stuff like that.  For us to put up a light with Health Canada involved is a month long process. At least. Probably multiple months. If you're looking for any amendment doing anything at all, Health Canada is working on a, the devil's coming to town and we want to protect all the people and they're mandated to do so. They start out with like the most extreme thing first and then walk it back if they find out they're a little bit wrong. Like the vaults that we had to put up. Ours is eight inch thick steel reinforced single pore concrete walls with seismic detectors and motion detectors and cameras and all that stuff. And our security guy was literally like putting the last screw in a panel. And we got an email from Health Canada saying, you know that whole vault thing? Just go ahead and not do that anymore. Oh no. Yeah, it can be a bit brutal work. Okay, so I know we've been doing this for quite some time and you're going to be busy and I'll be busy so I'm going to let you go pretty soon. For an investor, why would they want to invest and speak easy? So, I mean, I never do a pitch. Like I've sat in front of a thousand investors. I never do a pitch. What I do is just sort of talk about what we're up to and what we're doing. Comparing it to the rest of the market, I mean you really need to be an investor in this. You really need to understand who the customers are. And most of the companies don't seem to even understand that. The ones that are going to succeed in Canada are ones that have products that people will want to buy. That's first. If you don't have that, nothing else you do is going to work. Absolutely. You have to have some competent people that are doing that to run with that. So, I mean, in BC we're spoiled because we have access to so many amazing growers and so much technology and it's been the cutting edge for a long time here. So, they should invest and speak easy because of our land package, because of our unique place to grow outdoor, because of our fully integrated, like we're going from seed soil to oil as they call it. We have the land, a 290 acre package, we're up to about 100,000 square feet now. So, it's going to be us and companies like us that are going to be the survivors. Most of these big ones, I mean I'm not wishing them ill will, but I just cannot see a place for them in the future. It'll be companies like us. We've been in this a long time. I'm probably the most stubborn person you've ever met in your life and I live right beside that facility so nothing goes on there without me knowing about it and yelling at somebody. So, yeah, I just think that we will be here for the long haul. So, that's what we need to look forward for. That's fantastic. Well, you know what? We wish you the best of luck. Appreciate it. Nice meeting you. Nice to meet you too. And hopefully we can do this again soon. This is Mark Geene, the founder of Speak Easy. We wish you all the best of luck. Thank you. Thank you guys for watching. You're not winning, you're not watching. Thanks for wish to be live and we'll talk to you soon.


It's D.K. and I'm back today with another video. Shoes out to you for tuning in. If you are not subscribed, go ahead and subscribe button. Give me a thumbs up and do not skip those ads. Guess what happened in today's video? In today's video, we got some free high-nicking, baby. We got some free beer, baby. So, make sure you stay tuned to the full video. Again, if you are not subscribed, go ahead and subscribe button. Give me a thumbs up and do not skip those ads. We run and run and we get it. And we about to get to this bag. Let's go. Order number one, we starting off our day with Mickey D's. Let's have a little fun. Mickey D's, baby. Two items, 1.1 miles for $5.75. We're here to pick up the prongs. Let's go. Mickey D's, baby. About to get bit busy. Hope y'all with me. We're kind of split this way. B4B. I like getting this one ready right now. About to get us free, free, free, free. How you doing? I have a pickup last through our 4B4. 4B4. Yes, ma'am. There's R04EBE14B4. 4B4, yes, ma'am. That's a long one. I'm running like... One second, one second. Give me one second, OK? OK, thank you. What you been on?  Is it hard doing this? Oh, this? Jordan? No, no, I could. What you be doing on YouTube with us? Oh, no, you just have to stay consistent. That's really what you got to do. That's the only thing. Just stay consistent. Just keep on posting, posting, posting. So I post a video every day. Oh, God. I see. I'm watching. Yeah. 2.84? Oh, God, I'm watching. No, because I want to follow a gun channel. You feel me? A gun channel? I got my gun one. Yeah, I got all the guns. I know you do. Yeah, I got that. Chance, what you trying to do? You trying to do one with me? Yeah, I'll do it. I've got to work with you. Yeah, yeah, I'll definitely do one with you. Take my number down. Yes, sir. I'll just start with this. Thank you very much. You have a good one. For some odd reason, we got to get a signature on this. This is kind of weird. I've never seen it before. We got to go to 2.41. Sit short? Oh. They said I got to get a signature. This is the first time this ever happened. You're a good type of name, man. Thank you very much. You have a good one, boss. Order number two. Y'all know what we about to do. We about to get busy. You don't think you don't have to go nuts? That's my first time ever been in this. Y'all don't even know where to go. Hello, how you doing? Thank you very much. You have a good one. We're here to join with this Dunkin' Donuts. We're trying to go nuts. It's the number 10. I don't know how we're supposed to get in this, John, baby. They're trying to shoo. All deliveries are to make to the winner. But they got to go to the back of the building. They were right here. Step back and then with that photo. Let's go. Order number three. I'm taking a great chance with this one, G. I'm talking about this. I said I would never do one of these again, but we're going to do it today. I do got the wagon and I got the bag. So we can get to that bag, baby. Walmart, one order, 5.2 miles. It is groceries for 19.10. We about to pull up and get it in. Come on below and let me know if you do this order or not. Let's go. Hold on, wait, baby. Order number four. We got to knock this out before we go. Mickey D's, baby. Eight items, one mile for 475. It's literally like a round in circle, baby. Let's go. We got to go to the McDonald's in Walmart. So we're going to drop this off and then we'll come back to Walmart and get that order to get an order, baby. Hopefully we got this drone ready so we can keep it steady. We don't got to double back and now I want them to let me. Let's see if we got this drone ready, baby. Do you have a garbage? Yes, ma'am. Do you have three or four? Last three are five, eight, seven. Three gold bags, OK? All right, thank you. You have a good one. Hey, how you doing, Aaron? I'm here with your McDonald's order. Am I supposed to leave it outside or? Right. Yes, sir. That all right. All right, thank you very much, sir. You have a good one. All right. Good job, boy. Step back in with that photo. Smart. Let's go. Pick up. I'm pick up. Yes, sir. I ain't got big milk, don't I? Yeah, man. I will put the milk in the car and I can put the other ones in the bag. Baby, to get busy, it doesn't seem like it's that much stuff. I came to this house a few times and I'm going all the way. Turned up to the maximum. That photo. Let's go. Order number five. We just put up to Dunkin' Donuts for the prize. Dunkin' Donuts, eight items, three miles for $6.25. It's a great time to be alive. Let's go. Pick up in. Yeah, for Sriracha L. Appreciate it. Looks like a bag. No, it's fine. Thank you very much. We have a good one, sir. Let's go. We are here to go with this Dunkin' Donuts. We're about to go nuts. Let's see how we're going to select what we're going to do.  I thought you already knew, baby. I thought you already knew. Step back in with that photo. You already know those. That photo. Let's go. Order number six. We're pulling up to CVS to get in the mix. CVS, one item, 3.4 miles for $7.25. It is a red car order, but we're about to get in order. Let's go. We are here at CVS for the haters to rest. We have to get some flat irons. I don't know where to go. Hello, how you doing, man? Quick question for you. Do you happen to know where I can find these flat irons at? 20. Thank you very much. These are the ones you want because it's probably locked. OK, thank you. It looks just like it. Maybe it was this one. I think it is that one. I think it's this one. It looks like it has a digital thing right there. Yeah, it does. So it's probably this one, which it looks like it's the same. I'm going with this. OK. We're going with it. They need to go shop for their own stuff. I mean it. I guess you need the orders, but. Yeah, I do. I need the money. Yeah, the worst part about it is going to shop for somebody and they don't have the stuff. That's the worst thing ever. It is. A lot of times they don't reply back or anything. So it's like you just sit in the store and wait for 30 minutes. Oh my god, no, I don't. You have a great day. Excuse me. I have a quick question for you. Do you work for a company or are you like a? I'm an independent contractor, but I work for a company. So what do you do? You just deliver all this stuff? Medicine and I do overnight packages to houses. Yeah, what is the company called? RET, reliable express transport. Is it paid pretty good on it? You pay medical routes, you get paid a certain amount. And regular overnight is for package. This is on the DC. So I did the medical carrying for. I do it for this thing called drop off for app I use. I got to go to Kenosha, then go to Grace. They could then shoot to O'Hara, drop that off. And then you get like 160. It's like 100 to 114 miles. So 160 for one day? Yeah. That's good money. Yeah. That's good money. So yeah, I'm definitely going to look at that. I appreciate you, boss. Yeah. You have a good one. You too. Just like that, we are here to draw up this order to get in order. B1 is here right here. Drop it aside. Step back and then with that photo, you already know it. Knock on the door though. Order number seven, we have IHOP to receive a blessing. IHOP two orders, 4.3 miles for 1426. We're here to get in the mix. Let's go. See some orders up here. I think it's us. I think it's us. I think it's us. I think it's us. Let's see. Amy, Amy, and then Thomas. I got to make sure to. I got to make sure that they ain't announcing here. How you doing? Oh, like I'm going to wait until. Amy and Thomas, I know these are the two orders. I want to make sure there's nothing else I need to get. No. Thank you very much. You have a great day. All right, here to jump off number uno.  I'll put it right here so they can really see. I'm going to step back right here. You know, with that photo, you already know those. Bring that door down. Let's go. We are here to drop out the second order to get in order, baby. I came to this house before. We had to do all the way. Turned up to the maximum here before. Step back and with that photo, smack. Now from the door, though. Let's go. And just like that, it is the end of the video. I hope you guys enjoyed the content. Today we went out there and got busy. We made 122.86. We went out there and got in the mix. And it's only been like two hours. Like two hours. We made that in two hours, baby. So I'm going to give you guys a story time. We'll have it to my business partner. She just called me and told me, guess what, wow. She has got some free Heineken beer. So she went to a customer's house. It was an alcohol order to get in order. And when she went there to scan his ID ski, and it was a scan ski, his ID was expired. So Dora asked her to discard the beer and do not deliver it to him. So we got some free Heineken beer, baby, about to get right. About to get right. And it's one of our favorites. So deliver that to most enemy orders and not the greatest orders. But I hope you guys enjoyed the video. Again, if you are not subscribed, go ahead and spend the subscribe button. Give me a thumbs up and do not skip those ads. And one more thing before we go, do not forget to subscribe to the other channel. I'm going to put the link in the comment section. I'll see you guys on the next one. We're going, we're going, we're flooring. You already know it is DDK and I'm on my way.


TfNN, The Tiger, Financial News Network Update. Good morning everyone, Basel Chapman here for the Tiger Financial News Network. Wednesday the 22nd of June, market update, there it is at 10.01, and we're looking at the Dow down at 175, had a fabulous day yesterday, very sharp over 600 point move to the upside closing bases at hell most of the gains, and then overnight we had that usual spike to the upside and sharp sell off, but there were a lot of indicators that were suggesting that there is buying underneath there there's buying and that little doji candle from here we go this doji candle from three days ago with a low of 29653 that's going to be really important because we closed decisively above that yesterday if we close above it again today that's going to be a big deal so the day is young we're looking at the S&P also came back really nicely it's now down just 11 it was down 70 points or something actually the low today was in the E and the E-mini was all the way down to where is it here it is huh it was down to 3693 and here we are almost a hundred points higher 3752 so that's really important looking at the QQQ also very nice actually the Q's are now up 22 cents at 281.28 this is really important that's really important that in this particular phase you get the semiconductors and you get the QQQ's rallying to give some strength to the broader market and they're at 281.42 now this is going to be very important if you're looking at gold a gold is up six it's in this range it's just been stuck in the range but it is holding well when the dollar in fact has pulled back a little bit it's down seven ticks at 104.37 also within the upper range whereas gold is in the lower range we're looking at Crural and this is so interesting Crural is down seven dollars at 102.50 was that 121.46 I think it was 100 let me just quickly check that out before you lose the time we are 121.46 in the continuous contract just about eight sessions ago and here we are down to 102 this looks to me like what we've been talking about all the time if you look at the XLE that is the energy also down it's we'll be back and we're talking about a foot in the tide detection hour coming up straight off listen check that back the moment I hope you can see very fascinating


So I hope you're all ready to move on to the second panel session for the day Yeah, I know that we get a tad bit sleepy after lunch, but I hope that's not the case today Yeah, I think we had a really hearty lunch, but we're going to really enjoy ourselves so this session Ladies and gentlemen is going to be moderated by Aditi NC founder CEO the social Unicorn and With us on the panel. We have mr. Pratesh Chauthani co-founder and CEO HIV OCO Education and learning where Shali Shah CEO and creative head moving pixels private limited with mr. Prabhavir Sahame senior director Samsung as India and Southeast Asia Samsung Along with mr. Faizan Ahmed the national head digital transformation Revenue on behalf of the Hindu and mr. Rohit Utam Chandani founder teaching on well This session is about learning and unlearning the need for constant innovation Can we please put our hands together for everyone who's about to join us? Louder please come on Thank you Hello and a very warm welcome. My name is Aditi NC and the founder of the social unicorns Thank you for joining in and We are going to start with a session because we are running So I would request all the panelists to kindly introduce themselves So I'll go first My name is Pradesh. I'm the co-founder and CEO of a kids brand kids entertainment brand called high vocal Which stands for high voice companion. We are the world's first voice enabled voice interactive Animated stories app for children and and we've done in past six months done Done some great work. I've been in this business of marketing communication and being a PNL leader for about 15 years I've been at coke Whirlpool I was a business leader at at radio Mirchi and now I'm an entrepreneur So happy to join here with all the panelists Namaste, I'm Vaishali Shah CEO of the moving pixels company. We are a film production house and a design studio We expert in the political advocacy. I started my career as a copywriter today, I'm doing almost everything I'm supposed to do and Karma Hidharma is the mantra of my life. Thank you Hi My name is Prabir. I represent Samsung ads. We are setting up the first of its kind CTV ad networks for India and South East Asia And given this topic of around change I've always happened to be at a point in change in industry and CTV happens to be one of them Thank you for being a part of this event Hi, my name is Rohit Tamchandani. I'm the founder of Takion. We are a digital marketing and transformation consulting company Personally, I've been the digital space for over a decade Work with multiple brands across sectors across India and the Middle East help them craft digital strategy scale their online presence Done a lot of workshops done over 200 workshops for leading corporates across India Middle East and Africa Where we've helped their teams build capability in digital They say you shouldn't blow your own trumpet too much. I will stop and look forward to being part of the panel Hey, hi myself as I'm walking with the Hindu group as Digital transformation head for revenue function So we are trying to build an integrated sales for the organization Thank you. So today we are talking about learning and learning the constant need for innovation and Innovation means value creation Having said that when we talk about innovation and organization to begin with a fez on how to create What are your views on how to create a culture where risk-taking and experimentation is allowed in an Educated and confident manner Okay. Thanks, Aditi So before I move into how to create a culture of experimentation. I'll just give you my understanding What basically learning and learning means to us and and I personally believe this is not something which is new And this was always there with us. You think about your childhood once we first a step down to schools How we started learning with the help of fingers one two three Then we grew further and abacus was introduced and what we have noticed every time a new technique is being introduced You have to leave away the old-fashioned and we have seen the way we respond to that particular thing So I personally feel it is learning or learning and the learning is a perfect combination of what you call an awareness intellectual humility and And and curiosity any anyone like to go forward and anybody will strive for and What we used to discuss about three years four years back. We used to discuss about IQ level of a person Emotional potent Maybe an execution potent but now the new term the learn ability potent is this finding this way It's finding its way if you if you are not ready to learn on somebody will come and replace you Being an individual we need to ask a question to our self What we want to create whether we want to create an experience for multiple years or one experience for multiple years There is a huge difference So if you want to create an experience you need to make make certain changes You you need to have trust on your people. I belong to a sales fraternity and everybody knows In sales people will come to Danda Chalo or Bunde Bagenge Danda Lege I Trust me this this methodology is no longer going to work What will happen if you scream at people next time they are not going to improve? They are just going to hide the fact as an as an individual is our responsibilities and organization Responsibility to create a safe environment We have to plan for action Mistakes will happen. No nobody can predict what will happen in the future unless and until you try and unless and until you don't Don't don't create a safe environment. Don't ask your people to create something new if you start penalizing your people You are never going to achieve a success and and I would like to quote one one of the quote by Alan Joseph What he says he says the illiterate of 21st century is are not that those are not those who don't know how to read and write But would be the one who don't know how to learn Unrun and relearn Very well put Fezzan. Thank you for being coming to you. What do you think about you know reinventing? oneself with the action of learning and unlearning and relearning I do sometimes have the allergic reaction to the word on learning Simply because I do believe there's a statement in our community called daddy market was kids So we should not forget some of the foundational elements that we've learned over the course of our lives And if you've read the book called sapiens, which is on History you all who are required nice to say that History is not study of time, but it's a study of change So that means that this very moment we are part of a change But the way I interpret change in in my own personal evolution from Wanting to be a chef to now doing digital marketing has been that willingness to to learn as he quite rightly said and also have the Understanding that you need to adapt to survive And if you miss any of these elements, I think learning on learning and relearning can quite easily fall apart So know your fundamentals Know that you have to survive and in that mindset be at be agile and adaptive To whatever is happening around you and you you can choose to reject something because it may not you know suit your Your value system, but that's perfectly fine But be here for the longer time and be here for good for everybody Rohit, what do you think about it? I mean do you have something? You know just a valid issue Yeah, so like like Ravi said right we are in a time of great change and Changes all around us everything we do in this world is changing a rapid pace and Something I've seen the digital space itself. This is a space with changes really fast In fact, I remember someone saying this that the pace of change that we have today has never been Faster and will never be slower here on so it's the pace of change is only growing and you know in our space like this If you don't have that skill to be able to unlearn and then learn and just to give you an example There in the digital space itself, right? I'm not sure how many of you are Most of you might be running Google search ads for your for your brand if you optimize a Google search ad today With your knowledge from one year ago You would not get the same results and you would your results would not be optimal because in the last one year So much has changed in that space itself and this applies to almost everything in digital Whether it's a Google search ad or a Facebook ad that there are new features coming every day the new tactics The way you do it today is is very very different from sometimes in six months back It's a for most of these teams in digital that you require to the skill is a very important ability to Kind of let go of what you've learned before and that's that comes a little difficult to us is what I've seen sometimes in a lot of teams is You are so connected to something you've done and I have seen a special teams in digital agency Sometimes you've been doing the same thing for five years and you think that's what works And then you you're not able to let go of that and start fresh this ability to let go and start fresh It's something that's a critical skill in a digital world the pace at which we change So it's it's absolutely important for every company to build that culture in its Right, so in digital age when we are trying to upskill What is working today is definitely going to go obsolete in the next six months, right? Yes, sure so we we all are speaking about how as an individual we need to change But as a leader as as as a manager I think it's a primary responsibility towards our employees to actually make the change happen for them and I primarily believe that you know Usually employees would be Would have a smog in front of them not knowing really what the essential change is going to be see understand All of us are as employees are working hard to you know achieve our immediate results next month Or how many views do I need to get as a content creator and stuff like that The macro changes that are happening is only visible at you know 15,000 feet or 30,000 feet and as a leader Therefore you you know one has to create that culture of you know giving the power to the employee and say listen I understand you're doing something right here And you're learning and then you're doing well But now I want you to take up something new and I won't question you for next 12 months But you have to go basis my conviction that you have the ability to do that Once you see a manager or a leader give a conviction You would see this culture of you know innovation naturally come out obviously you need support in terms of you know training the employees and Creating those resources However, it is the conviction of the manager and the support that you give to the employee You would see the whole you know culture of innovation fostering in an organization basically Training a workforce as well, which will help in you know, I agree So not only just training the workforce, but the first step in actually getting someone to say hey listen I'm sorry. I speak from experience. We used to do a lot of so I used to head Business for radio Mirchi and primarily, you know best minds in radio creating great content But you want if you want to push someone saying listen, I want you to now focus 50% of your energy is creating digital What do you do in terms of saying but Merato rating Khara, but no, that's not the point I would protect you for what you've done in the next six months 12 months I won't even give you a rating for you know You got your stuff that you do on digital and monitor your performance as a trend line and not as a point in time So therefore, you know and training is part of it But the whole conviction of getting someone to move from just doing what they were doing core for themselves To moving something that they have to do for the organization because the organization has to move from one of the four You know for businesses to new businesses You have to give you have to give your assets that Stimulation to believe in themselves to get this in that Thank you so much Pradesh. So moving on a wish Ali So this is something that I really wanted to know that you know a company which reflects a company culture which reflects ethics values and You know goals grand goals also. Do you think it is a reflection of a great campaign? I mean a great campaign reflects the company's culture Yeah, so again, I would like to begin this with the term Learning and unlearning see because learning and unlearning is not just one person's culture It's a culture of the whole auger It should be the culture of the whole organization Then only one person's dream becomes a shared dreams and together they can grow together. They can achieve it about Unlearning at least you know at least one thing we can we all can unlearn every morning is the realization that yesterday What I did was the best and how to forget it today And at least one thing we all can learn every evening is that tomorrow whatever I'm going to do has to be the best And unlearning is not about forgetting our skills, but it's about reminding our skills every day to to work harder and to think broader and To me, I'm giving my opinion unlearning is Challenging the subset attitude, you know, it's it's about coming out of our comfort zones Yeah, and on unlearning see it's it's unlearning is not a time-taking process. It's not a meditation It's a it's a quick decision It's a quick shift from what's next to what's new Yeah, and another thing I would like to say See learning and unlearning they are the parallel process They happen parallelly like we do in a freestyle swimming It happens parallel and I'll give you example that When I am briefing my my creative team My first line begins with let's do it better than the last time here I'm not giving any big fund-on filmmaking or content marketing nothing But together we are setting a target that we want to do it better than last time that innovation becomes a Compulsion you have no other option than to do it differently and with whatever resources you have right now So when you're creating a campaign for your clients With your team, do you keep in mind the company's profile as a company's culture? I mean what kind of value system they believe in Yeah culture is an inevitable part of any process, you know, we campaign or construction or or anything so we Like we at moving because we believe in We believe that unlearning and relearning is our culture. That's why I'm talking so much on it because we are never an illusion That we are the best my writer would never say that I'm the best writer The best editor the best marketer because we it's it's an illusion if anyone believes that it's it's an illusion And it's not reality. It can never be a reality So yeah, it's it's a culture that we all share. Thank you. Thank you, Vishali Rohit coming to you Your take on how you see it as in a great reflect a great campaign is a reflection of a great company Culture do you do you believe in that? Yeah? I'll talk about it from the perspective not from a brand campaign perspective Right more of from let's say because I work a lot on the performance side of things So more from a performance campaign perspective what I do see is yes, of course culture is important and Because I work with a lot of clients from an external perspective and I get to study what their culture is internally And I also get to see the results they get so it goes without saying and I have data to say that a Company is where they have a culture of unlearning and learning a culture of Experimentation a culture of constantly trying to do things in a new or better way are the companies where their overall Campaign or marketing are why it turns out to be the best the campaigns run the most optimally to give you an example is for example, I've seen companies where When let's say they want to build a team to experiment and then do new things They probably invest in in tools I've seen companies where they spend a lot of money buying the best tools Without first building that culture of experimentation. So what happens there is you have a lot of money that's spent Without first having a team that understands how to hypothesize how to look at what do we need to test? Before using the tool to test it so a lot lot boils down to the culture we're building right from innovation to experimentation Thank you so much for moving on so There was something that we were talking about Fezan We would really want you to share about you know firewalling the stereotypes when it comes to clients transfer transformation Okay, that's the interesting thing to discuss and I have something which I am currently doing as far as Breaking the stereotype is concerned So every every time when you witness now if you ask even in the room if you ask how many wants change I think most than 90% of the people will raise the hand a I won't change The moment you ask the second question how many of you wants to change Then the real problem I write everybody wants change, but nobody wants to get themselves changed and I personally believe What is the biggest hindrance in in changing yourself? Trust me is the knowledge and the skills as what you poses now is the biggest hindrance And that's that there is the illusion of knowledge not the knowledge which holds you you in getting the change And when it comes to breaking a stereotype now when when I entered into a digital space While walking for a print media for almost three and four years Then I moved to a digital space doing doing sales and and building advertising revenue for them So when we go and say people will say hey to sell digital you net need to be X skill sets Y skill set Z skill sets is required when we go and talk to the organization a print people can't sell digital So then we thought if they are the one who understand the organization far more better than I do I may be understanding the medium, but print people are the subject matter or are the market matter experts They are there into the market for quite so longer period of time They have a better connect with the brand and and the agency and Digital person are those who who is them or what you call a subject matter expert. Why not to marry them? We break that stereotype and and what you call a dismantled our entire digital sales team Now how we have one integrated sales team within the Hindu if you if you want to give them a term You can call them up digital sales people, but is it only just setting up the goal is good enough? No We just don't want to change. We want to harness it Then what we have done we have set up a unit called digital center for excellent now what this will do My people understand Hindu they understand Hindu ethics. They don't understand digital as a medium So we have established an in-house training center for them So we select 12 to 14 people from the entire print sales team and train them for entire three years And that training happens from the internal instructor and and I'm happy to share This has really done wonders for us and we are able to move down our digital advertising revenue But almost 400 was in last two years. So as a leader, we just don't have to make changes We have to ensure we are harnessing those changes making progress taking learning Then again if that learning is not good for us or learn them and then go for the another Thank you. Thank you so much Fezzan. So thank you for your valuable inputs panelists, thank you so much and we are now open to questions from the audience Thank you so very much. Can we have a huge round of applause, please? Yeah, I'd like to request mr. Gaurav Paava BP sales. We serve to please come And my question is to you Considering the newspaper in the media industry how the you know news is consumed within not even ours. It's A minute game So this question How to digital media is gonna be there because you know by the time I get a newspaper next day in house I've already consumed the news. It's it's a matter of like two three hours So how you know the next day after 24 hours when I'm consuming the data Which is already been there on digital world. So what will put the future for the you know the traditional media specifically newspaper and magazine industry That's a tricky one But I'll share you my my view how I basically see the entire print media and digital media So you you correctly mentioned digital media. It's on the go. It's on the go You can you can read it whenever you want But have you tried to understand why people prefer print and why is still most of the marketer love to advertise on print. I Try to understand it from a psychological point of view Our our mind is positioned like we have to pass to it a subconscious and a conscious mind So if you if you try and understand the reading behavior of yours, you will always read the newspaper at a stipulated time So the time is defined maybe in the morning while having tea cup of coffee So when you read any particular newspaper, you are just positioned to read and consume the content your engagement level is much more higher Correct the print is going to be there print is going to be there because when it comes to digital Sometimes you are confused whom to follow same news. You are reading it on multiple platform The views you are reading out multiple platforms. So I think it's the engagement which will define The print that the print in the future and it's going to be there. It's going to be there circulation might come down But it's going to be there very much there. Thank you I would like to add to this that there is a difference between news and views Where we find everything easily on any platform are maybe not I they may be just views But the traditional mediums give you news and it's not about just news It's about who is giving the news if there is a legacy. There's a legacy of credibility behind that piece of news If I have one that I would like to add one more point How many of you believe three years back Indian consumer won't pay for content. I think almost all of us Hindustani content capacity need a free available. I have a pass in number of sources are available to consume the content But look the way subscription is going on. We as an organization have taken that boldest step of moving our product behind the Payword two years back and trust me. We are doing successfully Really well in that particular area consumer will pay for the content But you have to ensure you what kind of content we generate the content will always remain the king And that's correctly mentioned by shali is the views what what people would love to get for Thank you Something that I felt we should add here as well one one common thing I've seen in in digital forums right is And not nothing with what you said but generally in digital forums is Lord these blanket statements right print is dead TV is dead So one thing that I've seen a common mistake that marketers in general make is assuming that you are your target audience Your target audience behaves the way you behave And I've seen this across brands brand managers Everyone says I wouldn't go there. So maybe my target audience would not be there either So with the same thing with both print and TV right both are continuing to flourish With print I have I have clients that continue to do print ads not purely because of the ROI But because the perception I have a client that wanted to print even though when they knew that it's not going to get them The same ROI had they put the same money in digital, but they still wanted to do it because for them It's like our brand is on the front page of Times of India the perception that that creates is a lot more than anything else I would want to get out of that money So that that is one and just to add to that. I am a digital native I've been on I've been a digital first marketer, but every morning. I still pick up my print copy of DUI You can call me a dinosaur if you want But the reason I do that I have a reason I do that because that's one time of the day when I'm not using my Phone and I'm reading off paper. So I do it for that And I'm assuming there are people who do that as well I want to echo the same point when people say that print is dead even when we you know See the digital tools like logging logging is dead. It's very important for people to understand It's not dead everything is evolving and so is the print So yes, I mean it takes time. It's a gradual, you know evolution, but I am sorry But I need to make one point here. I'll take just one more minute See digital print television. They are just mediums, but at the heart remains content So if the content is strong, so be it on print, be it on digital It is surely going to connect. So we focus so much on the medium The print is dead or alive and digital is buzzing, but we don't really Give that much of important to the content So mediums are always evolving as you rightly said, but the content since ages You know Content adds value to the medium medium. I don't think adds much value to content I don't think quite film digital pearly is one of the say But yeah, one guy or theater may honestly will get guy. I mean, it's just the you know up now Selling strategies. Yeah, such a wonderful question, right? Everybody has a perspective and I'd like to completely disagree with Saying content is not as important as the medium is because Content to come over just right. It's the if you are a business leader If you are the owner of the company, you are focusing only on the platform or the distribution medium If you own the distribution medium, you will be successful If you're not owning it, you will always play in a content game Which is always a low margin business So we've seen print guy struggle because that was a legacy distribution business, right? Nobody could enter. There'll be only two or three players in that market, right? But as a content creator, just Switch on your camera and you can start creating content and you're creating content for Facebook for YouTube for Right. So as a business owner, obviously the crowd here would resonate You would always want to see the play between content and Distribution what side of coin that you are, you know You are most interested in as a business leader. I'm more interested in the distribution less on the content because content the All right. Thank you so much. Thank you for content content brings we all agree to disagree Yeah, always and I think it contributes to great health in conversation and perspective. Thank you so very much Well, I'd like to now invite Mr. God of power VP sales we serve to please give a token of appreciation to our esteemed panelists Can we please put our hands together? We already have our next panel team ready