I'm pleased and honored to welcome my man, Jason Terry. What's happening, man? What's going on in the zone? Yeah, welcome to In the Zone, 19-year veteran, NBA champion in 2011. You've been with Atlanta, Dallas, Boston, Brooklyn, and now, well, Houston, and now Milwaukee. So we glad to have you in here. Let's start with the current news in the NBA. We obviously saw Sunday LeBron James had this humongous performance against the Boston Celtics game seven. Some people, Jeff Van Gundy, some others are saying that was the best accomplishment. I think in 2007, getting that team to the finals, beating Detroit was bigger. And I think as big as accomplishment was 2016 when they came back from 3-1 down. Where do you stand on this being one of his greatest achievement? Well, I think you have a great point in all three instances. Because in 0-7, at that age where LeBron was in his career to do that with that team, I mean, that's a huge accomplishment. And so I think he still leans on that experience now that he's been now, what, eight times to the finals? Well, nine. Eight straight. Eight straight, nine. In his ninth finals appearance. And then he said, we'll just say 2012. 2016 when he beat Golden State. When he came back against Golden State, nobody comes back in the NBA finals down. Never happened. Never happened. And he was the first to do so. Though he did have some help with Kyrie, J.R. Smith had outstanding finals. But that was a huge feat himself. But if you look at this roster and how it was built, how it was tore down and reconstructed, it's not very good. And so he's had to carry them on his shoulders. He showed you last night 48 minutes, almost another triple double in heroic fashion. It wasn't a blowout. I mean, it was a tough game. It was a hard fight. But he showed you why he is now in that conversation of being the greatest of all time. But I don't think it will cement his legacy unless he wins this year. And then if he does win, and I'll ask you this, what does he do? Is it over? Because for me? I know you've been saying all day. Yeah, I've been saying it all day. I don't think so. You don't think so. I don't think he walks away. Because one, I think he got a lot of basketball left.   But whenever you retire, you're still going to be a young man. So my thing is, if I'm an NBA player or NFL, whatever, I'm playing until I can't. Or until when LeBron is no longer a top 10 player or something, I can see him walking. No doubt about it. And that's the difference between my career and his. Like at this point in my career, I'm a role player. I've accepted my role, impacting the locker room. Call on me. I'll be there in the corner ready to shoot and make a shot. But for LeBron, you will never see them take that step backwards. Come off the bench. And some stars have, which is, like Gary Payton did it. In 2006, when they beat you guys, Vince Carter is doing it. But it is odd to see superstars play that role. It's rare that you see it. It's very rare and it's humbling. But for a guy of his stature and where he's at in his career, no. And that's why it made me feel like after watching him, you see what he's been through. You see the pain. You see the frustration. But then you see also the deep breath like a man. I had to do all this just to get there. Just to get there. Not to win it all, but just to get there.  He's won three out of five, which. No, three out of eight. Three out of eight, I'm sorry. Three out of, yeah, he's three and five. He's three and five. So for me, that's like, damn, it's below average. I'm looking at my roster. I'm looking at the team. It's going to take so much to put that team together. First of all, financially, how they're structured is definitely going to be hard to move those pieces. Oh yeah. Then again, if you look at the pieces, they're actually trying to move. Those guys are role players on a great team. So I mean, for him, he has a lot to think about. I mean, where he's at in his career, obviously his family situation, his kids are getting older. His home base now, obviously I've seen the movie. He got a big home now out here in LA. He got a couple. Right. So coming here to LA, is that going to be any easier? If I was LeBron, first of all, we're going to find out what his motivation is. If it's winning, like if he's thinking, look, I really want to be the GOAT. He said it a few years ago, I'm chasing that GOAT since Chicago. If he's thinking I want to be the GOAT, the only thing he can do is win. He's got all the individual stuff. It's not going to be based on individual. So if it's winning, to me, go to Philly. Stay in the East. Stay in the East.  Because I've said, I don't want him taking the ball out of Ben Simmons' hands. And they said, no, he wants to play off the ball. If he wants to do that, to me, it's a no brainer. Because why come out West? Well, and then if you listen at that statement, play off the ball. Now LeBron James off the ball, when I've had the ball in my hands for 15 years, it's sound good. It's easier to say it than done. Right. But it's kind of like if you look at Chris Paul and James in a hard situation now, everybody thinks Chris Paul is coming to the team, James is going to play off the ball. Oh, no. James hasn't changed anything. Hasn't changed one bit. Chris has changed. Chris has changed. And I give him credit because I didn't think Chris could do this. Not at all. But I think what Chris has done is he's just picked his spots a little better. And so that's when you look at that series. I know we're fast forward. But we look at that series. And if he's not here tonight for this game, seven, it's going to be a real struggle. Because if you watch James, it brought back all memories for me. I played in Houston. We went to the Western Conference finals when James was the majority ball handler. And he just gets fatigued out. I was going to ask you what is it? Because we saw it last year against San Antonio, game six. You think that's what it is? It's not mental. It's just fatigue. There's only one guy built to last in this league. Well, there's two. It's Russell Westbrook and LeBron James. Physically, these guys' endurance is off the charts. I've been in this thing 19 years now. I have not seen anyone better. AI was the only other guy, genetically, that could run around like this and play 48 minutes. And you're like, yeah, he's still as fresh as he was in the first. So that's not a matter of they just condition more. That's some of that. Obviously, they do great conditioning. I think some of it is their workout routine and how they've made maintenance their body.  He's different. You know, at six, eight. And then his body is, I don't even know the word of it. It's well-proportioned. Like his muscle structure, it's not top heavy. She's big, bodybuilders are top heavy, leg skinny. No, he's well-proportioned. Russell Westbrook, well-proportioned. James Harden, if you look at his build, he has that body type, but he would have to implement the same routine. I don't know if it's diet. I don't know if it's like LeBron. They ride the bike crazy. What was Harden's diet like when you were in Houston with him? That was a few years ago. He was pretty good because he was changing at that point. He had already had some success. And you got to remember, my two years in Houston, he easily could have been the MVP. I voted for him in 2015. Okay, see. And the players, remember, that's when the players voted for him. But Steph had phenomenal years. And then Russell had the year he had. So, but I think at that point, he was just now transitioning to eat and write. He would lift post-game.  Post-game, it gives you recovery when you lift post-game. And so he started to pick up that regimen and I was like, oh, he's changing. And you could see it in his game. And he started to be unguardable. Like before he had the little foul move. Yeah, that was cute. And they caught on to it. But now he's really come into his own, man. He's learned how to get off the ball and save some of that energy. But again, he got Chris Ball. And if you've seen in the second half of game six, he was dominant on the ball. In the third quarter, he started to have turnovers. And he was taking bad shots. Yup, yup. Went down real quick. And that's, it's tough. People see their ISO and obviously with his handle, his feints and all that, he can get, he's great ISO. You can't guard him. But that's tiring to do that 20 times a game. Exerting a lot of unnecessary energy that you're exerting that if you watch the way Golden State plays, those guys is free flowing. You know, Kevin Durant falls into it every now and then. It's hard not to. I'm seven feet, he's six too. I mean, give me the rock, let me go to work. Well, that's, I'm glad you brought that up because I think the reason Golden State's struggling in this series, I mean, Houston's great. Give him credit. But I think they have fallen too much into ISO, post up Durant. Cause like you said, he's so great. And I even think the teammates, like they throw into it. Exactly. They're a little in awe of his greatness. But what makes them special is like you said, the free flowing offense. And that's the battle there. If they go back into the ISO in game seven, we're doing this before game seven, they could lose, I think. If they play their game, I don't think they can lose. I don't think they will lose, but I think it will be close if they go into the ISO one match up. But I just think right now they're heated up. I mean, Clay found his rhythm, Curry found, the one that was struggling was Curry. You gotta remember the first two games of this series, Durant was averaging 30 plus. He was carrying them in those same ISO situations, shooting a high percentage, very efficient. But Curry just didn't find his stroke. Now he's found his stroke and our thing about Curry was, was physically, was he hurt? Was he injured? That's the thing, right? Yeah. I mean, because every playoffs, like I've been like, I don't even wanna hear about no health. Cause when he plays well, nobody's thinking about it. And nobody said nothing. Right, but it's every post season. So he's probably a guy like you mentioned Hardin. And I know Steph works hard, but Jordan even said it. He said when Detroit kept beating him in the playoffs, he's like physically I couldn't just sustain it over the course of a seven game series. So he had to start working out more. So I think Steph's gonna probably have to do that too. Eventually he will have to do it. And because he shoots a lot of jump shots, that's very, it's very important that he develops this lower body strength. And that's something that I learned later on in my career. As I got older and Jason Kee came to our team, he would be lifting on his legs on game days. Oh, what are you doing? But you're thinking, okay, he's lifting on his leg. He's not squatting three and 400 pounds. He's doing functional weight, just strengthening and making sure all the muscles and joints are moving fluidly. So like after shoot around.  Wake the legs up, so to speak. And so those are some of the things that Chikuri will have to do. It's called preventative maintenance. Yeah, yeah. And you implement that into your regimen. Do you think we will find out tonight, Monday night, who wins this series? You think Cleveland has a chance against either? I'm hoping, I love Golden State, but I'm hoping Houston wins just so we might have a competitive series. Because I don't think Golden State will be competitive.  I don't think Golden State will be competitive. I think Cleveland, if it's Golden State wins one game, probably at home. At best, baby. At best. If it's Houston, the reason why I say Houston is a little more competitive series is because they have multiple defenders that can guard LeBron, all right? And then the style of play is such that if you get into a up-and-down race with them, it's gonna be a long night with Houston because that's what they thrive on.  That's the only way they turned around that series against Boston. Because that's the only way those guys... Yeah, that's the only way the other guys can get off. They gotta get out and transition and get open shots, but again, you never want to bet against the king. Okay. So you would give them a shot against Houston. But Golden State, that's just... And Golden State's confidence against them. They know LeBron has to guard Katie. There's no matchup problems. They own them. They own them right now. All right, now you guys faced Boston, lost in seven in Milwaukee, so it was close. Let me ask you this. If Kyrie's playing for the Celtics, are they going to the finals or does Cleveland still beat them? You know what? I give the edge to Boston. Because if you look at what Boston was missing, it was that guy that could get his own shot. Now, Jason Tatum is phenomenal. He will be a Celtic legend for years to come. Well, I wanna ask you that, because okay, how good, like we talking Paul George good, we talking Kevin Durant good, we talking in between. What do you think? Listen, I'm talking better than Paul George for sure. Okay. Because he still hasn't tapped into what he can do defensively, right, with his length. He doesn't even know that aspect of the game yet. But offensively, I mean, he's a mixed man. He has a little bit of T-Mac in him because he can handle it and he can handle in pick and roll situations. Athletically, I mean, he doesn't have the super bounce, but as you've seen against LeBron, if he attacked the basket, he still raised up on you.  He has that type of range. And so, you know, I watched his kids since he was a sophomore in high school. And I knew it then. I said, physically, he has the tools to play in the NBA. And it's just a matter of him getting that strength. I mean, he doesn't have the grown man strength yet. So, superstar. He's gonna be a superstar. He'll be a superstar. Especially for that organization. Yeah, yeah. It's one that they'll breed him to be that superstar. And with a guy like Kyrie, all the pressure won't just be on him. He'll be allowed to play with that freedom. And that's why you've seen the growth and development in Jaylen Brown, who in the last two years has continued to grow and develop. Now, they'll have a decision to make because both of them play the same position. Well, I think they'll, like the way I see it, they should just have Kyrie at the point, Jaylen Brown at the two, Jason Tatum at, I guess if they bring back Gordon Hayward next year at the four, Tatum at the four, Hayward at the three, and Horford at the five. Well, within this day and era, you get away with that because, you know, you need to stress for a small ball. And they'll really stay away from that lineup that I hate and that I thought that's why we would win with Baines and Horford. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nobody plays like that. Disappointed for me, but I thought we should have won that series. Don't count Milwaukee out. I mean, they got a young core, great coach and move-hoser. He has a system that if he implements it and allows Giannis to continue to develop his outside game, Milwaukee's gonna be a tough out. So you got three young teams. And in Toronto, what's Toronto gonna do? Are they gonna get a coach? They disappointed me because you thought this was the year they take that next step. At least be competitive with Cleveland. But be competitive. Don't get swept two years in a row. They just were shook to me. I'm not with two, I gotta use this lightly. I love Cal Lowry. DeRose is a superstar. We know that. But if he doesn't play in the fourth quarter of a game, there's something wrong with that. Well, did you see, I looked at that like, I mean, they came back without him. And he was, I think he had 13 points maybe. He wasn't playing well. At 13 points, they made a run, but at some point, you gotta put your best five players on the floor and make a run at it. That didn't happen. Now, again, we're not over there. We're not on the sidelines. Obviously, they had a better field than we do. And I just think that in itself got them swept because that next game, he just didn't bounce, but he was shelf shot. So, I'm with you though. That's the Eastern Conference though, for you in a nutshell. It's some good young talent. It's getting better. Everybody's mocked the East for a while. It's gonna be good. Let me ask you this quickly about Milwaukee. Did Jason Kidd get a raw deal? I'm not necessarily gonna say it was a raw deal. I think it mutually, they just chose to separate. I mean, as you've been along together for so long, mutually philosophies differ. The ownership group probably was on one page. We just had a new gym. He probably had another. And then Jay Kidd obviously had the division in his mind where he wanted the team to go, personnel-wise. And me being in there on a day-to-day basis, being in the meetings, coaches' meetings, he allowed me to do so. I know there was a difference of opinion when it came to personnel. And so that's probably where the split was. So any coach can't be happy when management is trying to tell you who to play. No doubt about it. It's hard because it's a difference of opinion. And at the same time, as a coach, you coach the team, you're there on a day-to-day basis. You see how it works. Ownership is up in the booth. They can see the stat sheet, but they gotta be in the trenches. If you're not at practice and you're not on the sidelines, you just don't know what's going on. But at the same time, hey, you own the team. You can do whatever you want. Because I've been with Mark Cuban. Yeah, he's been in the huddle. He'll come in the locker room and tell you, look. And give strategy? And give strategy and tell you, I'm gonna give you one example. We're in Sacramento. We're on like a five-game road trip, two games we blew, second game we're in, or third game we're in Sacramento. We're not playing well at all. He came right in. You getting your check on time? You getting your check on time. Dirk, did you get paid? It was the 15th yesterday. And we're like, yeah, everything good. Well, y'all need to start playing like it. And if you don't, Jet, I'm sending you to Portland. Dirk, I send you out of here too. You're not untouchable. And we're like, I'm cute. Now we go out and we lose the game anyway. But we were like, for him to come in, he was that invested. And that's what you wanna see from your ownership group. And I think Milwaukee, it's nothing bad about them. They have done that now. They're very visible. And their hands on. Are they bringing in analytics and stuff and saying, this is why, obviously they're using them. But when they point to why you should play so-and-so, is that what they're pointing to? I think that's part of it. They're gonna implement that in any decision that they make now. I mean, how can you not? You wanna use every advantage you can get. I think the point in case is in Houston. I mean, that's his whole game, right? He's huge at analytics. The only difference to grins I have is when you got the third all-time shooter in the history of the game. Why would you rather not have them on a roster? Well, that's what you need. For this team. For this team. I'm perfect. But that's all good, it ain't no hard feelings. Well, speaking of that, let me ask you this. If LeBron were to go to Philly, they obviously gonna need shooting. Would you look at that and say, I'll go there for the vest minimum? No doubt about it. You would have to take an honest look at that because any team LeBron is on, first of all, is a team for a shooter like myself is a luxury.  He'll find you. I mean, nobody's benefited more greatly than that in Kyle Korber and JR Smith. Yep, that's right. Do you look at them and say, I know Kyle, you think, and you can still do that? Oh, I envy him. I'm like, man, come on, man.  Because again, it's a luxury, man. That man has the best basketball IQ we've seen in a long time. And his ability to make players special is his probably his strongest attribute. So where do you stand on? Everybody asks the GOAT conversation. I've been listening to you on Undisputed to Heard. You've been dropping hints that you think he's the GOAT if not more than hints. Nah, I'm a Jordan guy. Look at your shoes. I'm a Jordan guy. I'm a Jordan guy. No doubt about it. It's something to be said about getting to the NBA finals and never losing. Yes. He's never lost. Regardless of who's been on his team or what we can say, who he played against and all that, he's gotten there. He's won. He hasn't lost. LeBron's record in finals, he's under 500. I mean, so are we just giving out trophies for just getting there? The last time I checked, nah. They won't say Carl Malone's the greatest power for, or why? Because he's never won a championship. Charles Barkley, same thing. So we can't give a guy the greatest of all time. Now, he's great. I mean, he's top three in my book. Yeah, I got him number two. Yeah, yeah, for sure, especially after this season. Now, you've got to put him up there. Most ex-players out, and I know you're not an ex-player, but most ex-players, and a lot of them your age, you're a little younger. They seem to put Kobe ahead of LeBron. Doesn't get enough respect, if you ask me. And because I've played in both eras right now, and I matched up against Kobe, I just, it's funny, man. I'm watching the VHS tape in my office the other day. I had 36 on Kobe. It was beautiful. Did you? And he was guarding. They was in Atlanta. It was one of them road trips, probably a back-to-back. He was guarding me, but he wasn't really into it. He tried to turn it on too late, and we got him. And man, that was like our season. We thought we had won a championship. But anyway, playing against him. So that was early in your career. Yeah, that was early in my career. It was my fourth, actually it was my second season. And I was in Atlanta, but I had a lot of freedom then. Boy, I was, ooh, a lot of freedom. But anyway, my point is that Kobe, okay, he played with Shaq, won three championships. But then he was without Shaq, won two. That's a five-time champion. And don't forget, he was all NBA defense every single year, right?  And then his killer instinct, I mean, he was a killer. And the difference between those guys and LeBron, they're six-six, six-five. Kobe might be six-five-ish right in there. Him and Mike, they play shooting guard. LeBron's a small forward, powerful forward and at his position. So, I mean, it's hard to say one guy's better than the other, but you got the five championships. Kobe, one of the greatest scores we ever had in our game. I definitely got him top five. Nobody gives cream up, do as you're barred. I mean, he dominated every era he was in. Yeah, I got Kareem three. You got Kareem three, that's good. See, we on the same level. So, anybody that's in the top five right there, you can't lose. But Mike, for me, because of what he did for our game, where it was at to where it is now, it's definitely because of Mike. Now, Magic and Burke can have a say to that as far as marketing and advertising these players, but Jordan, he escalated it. He took it to somewhere that, a stratosphere that nobody ever did, did movies, own shoes. He owned it. He owned it. Let me tell you something. Still, they still the most popular shoes. We're wearing shoes that he put out 30 years ago and they sell it for three times as much money. You just go for that. That's right. I got to see LeBron shoe sales in about 30, I mean, we ain't gonna just base it on that, but I got to see the shoe sales in 20 years, man. It's gonna be amazing.  You brought up Atlanta when you played there and Atlanta is known as dudes might not come out and play well when they're there at all.   And if I'm not a hockey fan, you may be, but look at Las Vegas, what they doing in their first year of existence. Dudes just coming in there. They are in the finals in their first year of existence. That has never been heard in professional sports. It's amazing, but it's home court advantage. The nightlife is great.  It was always something to do every night a week. You heard the JD song, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Saturday. You know what I mean? It was something to do. And there still is. And I think a lot of guys in this league, if you're playing in a city like Utah or Sacramento, and you only get one trip to Atlanta, you're definitely going to hang out. At least go have a good meal. And if there's something going on that night, you'll go partaking it.  But when that ball tips off at 730, you better be ready to go. And all of us did. We were all professional. Let me ask you about that, because I know one reason they implemented Shoot Around decades ago was that, because coaches wanted to get players up early and not let them sleep all day because they'd been hanging out. When guys are hanging out till three, four in the morning, whatever, doing whatever they do, how tough is it when you got to get up for what, nine o'clock or whatever and get to that Shoot Around? Is that really a hassle? Because it seems like it would be a hassle to me. Well, for me, it's not when you understand your priorities. When you prioritize correctly and you understand this is a job, this is a business. And when your business is basketball, you're going to go out and prepare and do what you need to do to be ready for that game that night. And that's why I said, our generation, it didn't matter. You can hang out till four or five in the morning, not sleep, go to Shoot Around, sleep the rest of the day. That's what guys will do, sleep the rest of the day. But you knew you needed Shoot Around so you can sweat, so you can get your body moving. So I can definitely get some shots up just to feel good. Boom, go shower, lay down, get a good meal. Now you're back ready to rejuvenate it regardless of what you did tonight before. Okay, now I see that ring, man. First of all, that is humongous. Appreciate it. I've seen some bigger ones. Boy, Deladova, man, I'm a man. They get bigger and bigger every year. I'll tell you, you got a school forefinger rings. I think you got a picture back at Jay-Z, got it on. That's what Deladova ring looked like. I wanted to turn mine in and get a new one. But I'm about to redo this thing. How often do you wear it? You know, I usually try to wear it when I'm doing either analyst work or broadcasting. And I also wear it around this time of year just because it's so special to me. Now I have one that I wear and then there's one that I keep in a trophy case. So you got two. Right, and I keep one in a trophy case. Did you do that yourself or did the team give y'all two? I did that because I knew I wanted to wear one in it. I won in college. My college, when I wore it out, I didn't redid it twice, but I wore it because I always want people to know. That was the hardest thing for me to do was win a national championship. Because it's one game in an hour. Is that harder than winning an NBA championship? Ooh, it's pretty tough. But being on both ends of the NBA one, losing it and then winning it, NBA is tough, man. Because again, you're playing against the best of the best. College is more the luck of the draw. You should get a good draw. And we didn't necessarily have a good draw. We knocked off three number one seeds to do it. And so that was tough. And I think it's only been one other team to do so since. But you're young and you don't know any better.  But the NBA, the pressure's there. The media's there. The lights are brighter. I would imagine in college you'd need more luck. Even if you're the best team, you need luck because it's one and done. And you have to be playing your best because in the NBA, if you don't play your best game one, you still got game two. And so I mean, and you can learn from your experience like game one, okay. Now we can adjust game two and do some. There is no adjustment. If you didn't adjust at half time with that college game, you was going home. I've been in that situation. The year we won it, man. The first round, hardest round. We're down 10 with two minutes left. Who were y'all playing? We were playing South Alabama. So they had to be a low seed. They were low. What were y'all seeded? We were like, I mean, we took fifth in the pack 12. I mean, we might have been up fourth. Y'all were low seed. Y'all, we probably were seven or six. Okay, so it was a close one. Yeah, so it was, I mean, it was a barn burner, man. But I always remembered that experience because nobody picked us to win. And we felt like, man, we got just as much talent as anybody else. And early on we were beating folks, but we just had a bad, the pack 12 was tough back then, or pack 10, I'm sorry, it was tough back then. And so, but we came together at the right time and we'll never forget it. And I see those guys now, Mike Bibby, Miles Simons coaching in LA now. And we just look and we smile, man, because we share a special bond that nobody can even think of and imagine. Now that ring, of course, from 2011, when you were at the Dallas Maverick Shop beat, LeBron and the Miami Heat, that was his first run of this seven, eight year straight. That was the first time. That's viewed as the low point of his career, you know? And when he kind of was melting down. So they're up to one, when did you first recognize something's wrong with LeBron James? You know what I mean? Like, this is not the LeBron James. Well, if that was a low point of his career, it was definitely low in mind because we're down to one. I hadn't performed the way I wanted, thought I should have been performing. He was guarding me. And all I'm hearing that practice is dirt because dirt was had no sugar coat. I mean, if he came in, the bums ain't doing what they gotta do. Really? That's why we ain't winning. Oh, well, dirt was like that. Well, dirt was cold. Now he wouldn't, in the media, he kind of stayed away from it, but he would let you know straight up, man. You're not doing it, bro. And he would say the bums. The bums, the burgers. Like, I mean, it was no filter. And so you're looking like, man, and my locker was always next to here. So, I mean, he was on me. It was two, one. And he knew like, if we were ever gonna win a championship, this was the time to do it.  We need you. And then so the media caught wind of it.   What's going on? I said, well, he can't keep up with me for seven games. I remember you said that. And I would just let you know, like, honestly, he can't. Because I knew physically, his strength was not chasing and running off of screens. And I thought if we did that more and implemented it a little more in our game plan, then he would struggle a little bit. So it probably was game five. So it was two, one. We win game four, but game five. It was a point in the fourth quarter they call a timeout. We had just went on the run. LeBron had his back to the stanchion. Everybody else had walked to the bench, but he was still out there. And I kind of looked back and he had his chin in his chest. And he was just doing this and he was deep breath. And I looked and I kind of smile like, yeah, yeah. He's worn out. Wow. He didn't have no more left. And it was because we had multiple defenders. We were picking him up full court. We weren't letting him get to his isolation game.  If he drove it and he had a clear path, we were wrapping him up and give credit to Deshaun Stevenson, Sean Marion, even Jason Kitt was guarding him.  Dwayne Casey takes a lot of credit and he's rightfully so because he deserves it. And LeBron gave him some love. He's here. I developed my outside perimeter game because of your defensive strategy in that series. And so that was it. Game five, I seen it in his eyes. So to you, it was more of a physical, he just got worn down. Most people look at it as mentally, he wasn't. Well, physically, yes, but mentally, definitely what I seen in his eyes. Yes, it was mental at that point. Like we were up 1-0. Even in game two, we were up 10, 12 points in the last three minutes and they came back and beat us. Then we win on their court. That's a breaking point in the series to win that first game on the opposing team's court on the road. That's like a breaking point.  And in game five, they have fought as hard as they could. And we kind of, I hit the shot over him. It's probably in my career to this day. If you want to say LeBron's defining moment was the block he had on Golden State. Mines was the hesitation pull up on the right wing in Dallas to kind of put us up for and propel us to victory in game five. That was my defining moment. And then to see his reaction after that shot, he was like, man, they ain't going away. Even though we're going home because remember the series is two, three, two. And so we had to go there for two games. You would think like mentally, damn, we got two at home, we cool. But you could see it. They weren't cool. And they knew we were gonna give them everything we had in game six because we did not want it to go to seven. Now I heard from one of your teammates, ex teammates that you were talking major trash to LeBron. You and Sean Marion, I heard. To everybody, it did not matter. If you had on a heat jersey, cause you got to remember me like 0506 Miami just crushed every, I was, I tell everybody to this day, if that's, if we win that series, Jason Terry is the MVP of the series. 06. 06. Y'all, y'all, y'all were not too old. I don't ever took my own horn, by the way. But we were up to. You were up two and three quarters. I was having a phenomenal series. Phenomenal, 30 in the first game, 18 in the next, 30 in game three. I mean, I'm balling. Like, I done dunked on Shaq. Everybody want to talk about when LeBron dunked on me? Shaq, I got the footage. Now I stepped on you. We gonna show some of that footage on me. But I banged it. Oh, in the finals, first time ever, I mean, I'm in a dream. Now I see the T-Mobile commercial right after the finals. Dean Wade got the T-Mobile phone. I mean, I said, there are all something like this, and that was me, man. But then to get my chance again in 2011, man, it was sweet vindication for me. So again, I love it, winning it, but losing it still resonates even more to me. I want to get to all that. I want to stay in 06, or get back to 06 quickly. But first in 11, so were you a trash talker throughout your career, or you just for that series? Yeah, I think who my role model, my idol was, Gary Payton. OK. I was raised in Seattle. I grew up. GP would be at all my high school games. I would be at Keele. Did you know him? Yeah. Because I know he played at Oregon. I knew him, but the only reason why I knew him was because he would come to the games. Because he was playing with the sun. And he would always. So there was a place called the Seattle Pro Club. This is where all the sonics worked out. Back when Xavier McDaniel, Delis Shrimp, Dill Ellis, Byron Houston, GP, Sean Kemp, they would all come up there and work out in the summer. But they would let guys like the local kids, like myself, come and work out with them. And I was like, man, this is like the coolest thing ever. Like, I watch all on TV, but y'all going to let me hoop with you? Cool. So you playing in scrimmages. Yeah, we scrimmaged. We getting it in in the summer. Now are they going at y'all? They going at it. GP talking trash. Young boy, what you think this is? Boy, you will get your whooping today.  And so I was like, man, that's so cool. I like that because he backing it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one thing about talking trash, you can talk all the trash you want. But if you're trash, nobody's listening. He will back it up. And no, so for me, the defining moment which made me want to idolize GP is when he went up against Mike. I said, GP talk to it. Let me see if he going to talk stuff to Michael George. Nobody talks to Mike.  He talking to him. They take him to six games. I'm like, y'all, I want to be like GP. I'll be like Mike all day, but GP's the man, yo. Now they didn't win the series. But I just respected the fact that he felt that confidence in his game that he'll go up against the greatest and he never backed down. So did you feel like, because again, I heard it was you and Sean Marion, did you feel like y'all got into LeBron's head with the talk? I don't think he really even paid attention then to it. I mean, it was just something that me and Sean, I mean, we're in class of 99. That's just something we did. We didn't care if it was LeBron or somebody else. And it wasn't personal. It was just like we knew, like psychologically at that point in his career, he wasn't as mentally tough as he is now. And so we wanted to do anything like, we would cheap shots, talk stuff, anything we can do to try to get under his skin and rattling. And now, did that work? Who knows? But I know mentally he was fatigued by the end. And you got to remember why he was fatigued. The whole parade, the expectations, beating Boston, like Boston really did the job for us. For them that was the win. Yeah, that was the win. Did you see them after? I mean, guys was falling out on the court. And we're watching it because we had already took care of our business. We beat them 4-1 Oklahoma City. So we just watching like, okay. Yeah, they think they already won the chip. They ain't even looking at us. And everybody says we were the dark horse. And I think LeBron has only been favored in the finals. I heard a stat today is twice. And one of them against us. So, yeah, you have it. Wow, wow. So let's look at 0-6 then. Cause like you said, y'all were up, I covered that series. Oh man. Like I said, it wasn't just 2-0. Y'all were up 13, I think, with six minutes left in the fourth quarter game three. So what happened? Dwayne Wade went to the free throw line more times than Michael Jordan. In the history of the NBA finals. To this day, he still has the record. Why he shot so many free throws, I don't know. But I can go back to one possession for sure that I know didn't nobody touched that boy. As a matter of fact, he stiff armed me cause I tried to double team him. I fell down. That was offensive foul. Then he goes to the whole trips, throws something up and they called another foul. So at that point, we're like, okay, we're playing against seven players. You felt, y'all felt that during the series. Yeah, I mean, if you look at it honestly, at that point, we did it to ourself because you're up 2-0. You're up in the game three where they had a lot of dysfunction going on. And you could see it. I mean, those guys were arguing and stuff in the huddle in the timeouts. So you could see that. Yeah, you could see it. GP and I think it was GP and maybe, I don't want to say J-Wheel, but it was one of the other veteran guys and they were going back and forth. It was heated. It might have been Antoine Walker. They were kind of heated. And we're like, man, they about to break over there. Man, we got them. But he just kept going to the free throw line. And yeah, we like, I mean, okay, cool. Okay, we didn't win game three. Get to game four. Shack goes up, Stackhouse clothes lines them. It's flagrant, but it's not really like, okay, that's Shack. You can't really knock Shack out. It's like LeBron now, if you hit him, like, okay, that's not a flagrant though. It's just a good playoff foul. He gets ejected. He's our sixth man of the year. We're counting on him 15 to 20. So we don't have him for game five. Game five was close. I missed the game winner. So at that point, it's like, man, mentally, we are in shambles. Not to mention while we're in Miami, we were in South Beach for like a week and a half. It felt like a month. There's two, three, two formats. Avery moved y'all. Avery Johnson was the head coach. He moved y'all from downtown to Fort Lauderdale. Did that have any impact good or bad? Psychologically, psychologically it wore on us because now you took us out of our original routine. Your routine in the NBA is, ain't no roommates, this ain't college. So now we're- Y'all had roommates? We had roommates. We're 30 miles away. We're the guy we've never hung out with. And so, and I get the strategy. So he made, so originally in Miami, y'all were in South Beach. Y'all didn't have roommates.  The family is definitely at the hotel. Everybody's hanging out. We having a good time. You're up 2-0. It's party time, supposedly. So that's what he- For some guys. That's what he was trying to get away from. Rumor has it, Antoine Walker, and this is so vet savvy, took a couple of our young guys out to dinner before game three. Coach found out about it and they were on South Beach.  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Y'all ain't focused, man. We going, let's get the boys. We going up here to the Marriott out here and for a lot of them. You doing good, Avery. Like, man, come on, coach. No, y'all ain't focused. Come on. And so at that point, we're like, oh, here we go. So now we know we're in a dog fight. And then to be in Miami for what? A week and a half? I mean, that's just a long time to be away from home in the finals. And a lot of, it's our first finals. Like, it's my first time being at this day. So tough, tough, tough for a young ball club to go through. But you learn from it and it made us better. So y'all, so he not only moved you up to Fort Lauderdale, but y'all gonna have roommates. Oh yeah, y'all gonna have roommates. That had to be tough. The craziest one was me. I'm cool. I get along with everybody. But the coldest roommate combination was Dirk and Daryl Armstrong. Oh my God. He made Dirk listen. Because D.A., he listened to, he watched videos one. And then two, he's listening to rap music the whole time. You know, Dirk barely, he don't listen to rap. Oh, he got the music turned up. He got the speakers bumping. Dirk ain't really getting no rest. I mean, it was crazy. Wow. Who was your roommate? My roommate. I think I had Dampere. Dampere might have been where he was. So he just assigned y'all. They call him Big Bear. He ain't doing nothing, man. He just chilling. They assigned us roommates. He wasn't doing nothing. I'm reading the Bible or something, man. He was just on his phone or something. It was cool. So, I mean, like I said, psychologically, though, that kind of wears on the team. But I see it, though. Like, for a coach, I'm going to do whatever I need to do to get my team focused. And if I got to change hotels, we're changing hotels. And so I applauded Avery for doing it. That was a bold move. And it had nothing to do with us how we performed in those next couple games. So when you went to Dallas from Atlanta, you replaced Steve Nash. People might not remember that, but he went to Phoenix as a free agent. You replaced him. And y'all got better. I think they won 52 his last year. They won 58 your year. Obviously, a couple years later, you in the finals. Let me ask you this. Now, Nash goes to Mike Dantonio in Phoenix. And in last year, in Dallas, 14 points, eight assists, people kind of felt like he was coming down a little bit. That's why Cuban let him go. But with Dantonio, he's in the perfect system for him, I think. And obviously, the rest is history. Two MVPs, how the famer he's going to be.  Would you have been the point you think bringing it down to pick a role? Or would you have been one of the guys playing off the ball, shooting three? I think I would have been, he would have had the luxury to allow me to do both. But at the same time, if Murray Stottemeyer is the one setting the pick for me, he's rolling every time, I would have the ball in my hands because if you see my career in Dallas, the two-man game basketball, which you don't see a lot of today, is what Dirk and I thrived on. The pick and roll with me and him on the right side of the floor, you had to pick your poison.  If you showed too far out, I would drop it back to him. And that was how we started our action. That's how we got the ball movement. We started action with our two best players, caused a reaction, and then we get the ball moving and you'd have to rotate and fly around. And so Dantonio's system is more predicated on, right now it's more ISO. When Nash, it was all about pick and roll. Nash get down here, cause a problem. Amari roll, cause another problem. Now we spray it out to the shooters if they rotate. If not, Amari gets to pass, he bangs out. If you switch, now that's when Nash did his ISO thing. And that was so hard to guard cause he bar none. Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Isaiah Thomas, the former Isaiah Thomas legend, best handle, Kyrie Irvin. I was gonna say, I think Kyrie got the best ever. Kyrie, best handle, Steph Kyrie. So you with that best ever? Best and those five, they got the handle. It's on a string, you're not taking it from him. And so I think Nash first, and if you look at Nash's career tool when he left Dallas, 14 and eight, we all talk about his stats, but look at the team.  You had a lot of friends. Michael Finley, Nick Van Neck. So you have more scores. So I mean, now he goes to Phoenix where he's the primary ball handler. He's the guy. I mean, it was good cause he had those athletes too. Now Sean Merriam was an athlete. He would get out and run with the best of him. He was a gazelle. Steinemar, a young Joe Johnson. And then he had Tim Thomas. He had some guys that can fill it up and shoot. And that's what the Antoine system is all about.  And that's why it was so effective. Now you are a great shooter, great three point shooter, but the most you've ever taken in a season was six a game. And I think it was Dallas. You averaged 19 that year, 19 and a half that year. If you were playing your prime playing today, where it's not unusual for somebody to average seven, eight, nine, threes a game. Again, where do you think your career would have gone if you're in your prime playing in this era? I mean, it will still be up there. I mean, I probably would have overtaken Ray Allen right now, but see for me. Cause you're third in all time, three point is made. I'm third, Reggie second and Ray is first. But for me, it's because over the span of my career, I played 19 years and you got to remember, I'm one of the best mid-range jump shooters in the history of basketball. I pride myself on the mid-range jumper. I got taught by Iceman, George Gervin. He took me under his wing and he told me. Now, when was that? This was my second year in the league. My mentor, Jeff McCall out of Detroit grew up with ice from that area, took me down to San Antonio. I spent three days with ice and all we did was shoot mid-range jumpers. He would not allow me to shoot a three-point shot. And that's why I developed that aspect of my game. Always could shoot threes because I was either shoot threes or get layups. But he developed my mid-range jumper and I just fell in love with it. And it's just that little in-between shot that is just so hard to guard. Not many people have that kind now. Some guys are trying to root that out like Dantonio doesn't want mid-range. And when I got to Houston, we had a disagreement, a conflict of philosophies. Because my two is a layup. And that's what I used to tell him. My mid-range is a layup. But he's like, no, we want layup, free throws or threes. I'm like, come on, man, forget them analytics. And I think they heard me over say that too many times. That's why I'm not back over there. But that was a Daryl Moret thing. And so again, me being in the systems I've been in over the last three years, Houston was the only team that really thrived off the three-point shot. Milwaukee's really not that. Brooklyn really wasn't. Boston, we mixed it in, but we really were take the best shot available. Well, that's why I wanted to add, because the game is getting more and more and more three-point heavy.   I'm from the era of good threes. We need good threes. Don't just come down, jacking up a shot. I want my threes taken off ball movement. Two or three passes, boom. They rotate, they don't close out. That's a good three for me.  To me, that's a low percentage shot. The three-point shot on an average in the NBA is what, 34, 35%. And see what the analytics tell you is, the reason they say if you hit 33% of your threes, that's like 50% from two. From two. That's why they always promote, you know what I'm saying? But the thing is, you have to hit 33% of them. Right? They ain't fall under 31, 32%. That's what the analytics won't tell you. And then, like you said, some of these threes guys are taking now is to step back three to pump, fake side step. These are very difficult shots under duress. I'm more of on efficiency. I'm more of a guy that let me shoot 40 to 45% from three. Now we cook them with fish grease. That's what I want. Because I thought, yeah, I thought in game seven, Boston Cleveland. I thought both of them were playing lazy ball and just trying to hit home runs from three, especially Boston. Hero ball. Hero ball. Boston really got away from their identity. They played out of character and they played more as if they were on the road. Because if you've looked at them on the road, they shoot a low percentage from three because they're taking bad threes. Early in the shot clock, off no pass, contested three point jump shots. And they fell into that. And they thought just because they were at home and this is a young team, they would still be able to take and make those shots. Those shots didn't fall for them. And that's why they're sitting at home right now. Now, what advice would you give to a young player coming into the NBA about what pitfalls to avoid? The number one pitfall to avoid for a young guy coming in is to don't be content with just being here. When you get here, obviously you have the talent. That's why we drafted you. But you need to continue to develop, continue to work on your weaknesses, but rely on your strengths.  Yeah, let me put that in my game. No, that's not why we drafted you. We drafted you because X, we need you to do that well and be a specialist. I think that's the other thing we get lost at when we come into this game is guys trying to work on this part of the game, that part of the game. But again, the sooner you find out what your specialty is, is this game, the more longevity you'll have. And I think that's where I've been able to sustain the level of play for myself is because once I got to a certain point, I knew I wasn't a starter anymore. I knew I could start. If I accepted my role and became the best six man I could be, then I would last longer. And I think that's the number one advice I can give. One of your young teammates in Milwaukee, Sterling Brown, he just had the incident where he got tased by police. Have you talked to him since then? Yes, I definitely have. And again, when he got tased, people don't think they think he got tased yesterday when the video came out. This happened in January. And he came to practice. And Sterling is a headstrong, young, confident, strong, young black man. And when he's at practice, he gonna let you know that too. And so part of me when he showed up that day was beat up, he was bruised. I'm thinking he got into an altercation at a bar or something. I didn't know the police had used excessive force and really bodily harm this young man. Because again, I'm thinking about the Sterling Brown I see every day.  So I'm like, man, what did you do, brother? What's going on? He's like, nah, bro. It wasn't right, man. They did me wrong, man. I didn't do nothing. Man, I don't know about that Sterling. Well, it really happened. Man, just wait till the tape come out. Okay, I'm gonna give you that. I'm gonna wait and see. And so I didn't rush the judgment. I waited and I looked and I seen what I saw on tape. And that officer was very wrong. At the least I'm double parked, I'm in a handicapped spot. You can give me a ticket, ask me to move my vehicle. That's it. You can diffuse that situation very easily and we will not be having this conversation.  And so now we have a discussion that we've been having right now in society for the last four or five years that has been going on. You know as well as I do in our community forever. I think it's even lessened. The only reason we see it is because of the camera phones and everything. Because of social media and camera phones. People wouldn't know what was going on. We wouldn't know what was going on, man. And it's been a huge injustice. And for me, again, I always err on the side of, I always look at myself first. What could I have done in a situation like that to diffuse it? If I was Sterling and I'm in that situation, officer, I'm very sorry. Can I move my vehicle? But everybody's not like me. Everybody didn't grow up like I grew up. You see what I'm saying? And I grew up in the inner city but I've lived it, I've seen it, and I know how to handle it. But it takes a mature individual. You're talking about a rookie in the NBA from Chicago, the South side. So he's tired. He's seen that happen over and over again. He's tired. And I watched that video. That young man did nothing wrong in that instance. No, no. Well, we, I mean, Thabo Cephalosha, remember he got this febular broken by the police. Have you ever had incidents where, you know, I've been on the good side of the law. I told you, boy, I was schooled at a young age. Boy, anything, go down. Listen, officer, change the voice and everything. Yes, sir. I'm sorry. I know I was going over the limit. Let me, here's my ID, my insurance and everything. I don't need any problems. I just want to get home. I had one instance when I first got drafted. I'm driving home. I'm driving to Atlanta with my wife and my daughter in the back seat, had a firearm in the trunk. I'm driving my S430 Benz paper tags going about 85. I'm just, I've been in a Honda. I don't know how fast the Benz go. I'm riding down the highway. I'm going down 85, man, feeling good down 85. I proved the lights hit. I'm like, oh, then I looked. I said, oh, yeah, man, I'm doing 80. That's too fast. I'll pull over. Officer comes up, nap on the window and see your license registration. Give him my license. You know I could be on CNN right now, right? I guess, I mean. You didn't know what he was talking about. I didn't know what he was talking about. He said, you got anything in the car I need to see? I said, man, sir, I'm traveling with my kids and we're moving. We just got drafted to the NBA. I got a firearm in the back. It's registered. I have a license to come permit. Yeah, I don't care about none of that, but I could be on CNN right now. About five other cars pulled up right behind me.  It's about to go down. Because I'm going to let you off with a warrant. All your paperwork, your register, everything checked out. Your gun is registered. Have a nice day. But all I remember was I could be on CNN. Now what that meant, I don't know. It sound like it's a threat. I could go off with it. So if I didn't, like I said, if I hadn't been properly schooled and this came from my mother, so like any situation like that, you just act respectful. And if you know you're not in the wrong, it all come out in the light. And so just leaning on that experience, I was calm, I was collective. I told them what I had. I was honest and none of that happened. And he never recognized who you were. No, he never recognized you.  All the time. Brother, I mean, thank you. Well, thank you Dallas police department. Cause I've been late to practice so many times and I'm on the tow way and I'm smashing out. I get pulled over. So, hey, Mr. Terry, appreciate what you did in 2011.  Gone by. Yeah, yeah. So it's worked out too. Have you told players, since all this stuff has come out in the last several years, have you told any of your teammates, young players, like had those talks like, look, I know you got your pride, but this is how you should handle yourself with the police. Just get home. This is where the NBPA to me does not get enough credit because we've had so many seminars where they come in and they'll bring in police officers from the city that will have this discussion in this conversation. Their number one rule is anything after two AM, you just might as well hand them your stuff and tell them, hey officer, I'm sorry, here you go. That's the best advice they can give you. Cause anything after two AM, he's telling you as an officer, I'm already thinking you're in the wrong. Is something going on? Because again, now we can say you should be, but we don't know everybody got their own life. But after two AM, nothing but trouble happens. And so my advice to these guys in those meetings is listen to what they're telling you because they are right. You know, you're never right when it comes to dealing with law enforcement.  Wrong or right, you're not going to win that battle. What do you, what do you want? So you want to play next year? No doubt about it. And it's about champions, like is it about championships or more just the money or? For me at this point in my career, it's about the impact I can have in the locker room and on the court. Okay, so it was a young team. It's a young team. And so I know my impact with a championship team obviously could lead me to another championship. I have one, I want another one, yes. But if I can do that with a young team, like for instance, like a Milwaukee, that would mean so much more to my legacy. My impact was felt great in Houston because I had a young James Harden where he was able to sit next to me and lean on my experiences. And I felt I was able to share those experiences with him and it would elevate his game. And now I'm starting to see it. I'm not there, but I can watch from here like a proud big brother. Because I see some of the things he's doing out there and those are some of, directly because of some of the conversations he and I had. And so being able to do that with a Yanis, with Chris Milton, with Eric Bledsoe, that's where I see my value is at. Also, I like to be with a coaching staff that is kind of young where I can go in and learn from because my passion inside of me, I know I'll be a coach in this game when I'm done. I also like broadcasting. Broadcasting is good because after all, I watch brothers like you who are well-spoken and are very knowledgeable about sports because not only basketball, but I'm a football fanatic. So I love all sports, boxing. I love boxing, I love golf. And so watching brothers like you, how you speak, how you articulate your points to the public, but are still relatable to young brothers like myself, is very powerful. Thank you. So Milwaukee's where you wanna go? Back. Sound like it. Milwaukee because of what we've built. Jason, I know his dream and what the culture in changing the culture there, what we've done in the last two years has been phenomenal to me. And I wanna see that process end. But hey, whoever wants to give me the opportunity, it would be a blessing. And then coaching soon. Yeah, coaching real soon.  Do you feel that way?  What's your view? I can honestly tell you that I am prepared to step in and be a head coach if that opportunity is presented to me. But I'm not against being somebody's associate head or sitting next to him on that bench and being able to give him the experience, allow him to learn from the experiences that I've had and me learn from him. And then still have the respect level from my peers. You know, that's the big thing about coaching. You know, you can draw up the X's and O's and all that's great. But if you don't have the respect of that locker room, you're not gonna do it too well. That's the main thing. Because am I correct in saying, I mean, every NBA coach knows X's and O's. Yeah, that's true. It's just the respect. You're not gonna be a NBA coach if you're not qualified to do the X's and O's, you know, but them players, them 12 to 15 guys in that locker room, if they can look you in your eyes and what you tell them, they honestly believe it and they go out there and put in the hard work and dedication into your system for one common goal, then you'll be a good coach. I think you'd be a great coach, man. And I'm looking forward to it. I didn't know that was your goal. So I'm looking forward to seeing you on the sidelines one day and in the booth too, here at FS1. But it's great to have you in the zone, man. Thanks for the great stories. And thank you. In the zone. Appreciate it.