This is the build OGM call for Tuesday, January 18th, 2022. I sent out a poll about using my brain, which is not the topic I'd like to focus on for this call, but I thought I'd share the responses so far for people who have replied. It's interesting. I tried, so one of the comments back on how to improve the poll was, I don't really like forced choice, single choice radio buttons. And I did that pretty intentionally. I'm not a professional survey designer at all, but I was trying to, I tried to make these in a, I tried to make those single choice answers in a gradient. And I just kind of wanted to figure out where people are because I have a funny feeling that it's either bimodal or something. So I added an apology at the top to the intro to sorry for the forced choices, but I'm trying to like figure out where you land. So this one is like mostly I've grown accustomed to his presence and then nobody so far who actually goes and uses it individually. And then this one's split between these two middle ones. Interesting, the curriculum connections, a useful map. This is interesting. How do I find these thoughts again? It's sort of the thing that people think a bunch. And then one answer was not again, this is distracting. So there's a little bit of information there. I think that'll be more interesting as a compounds. I don't know that many people that use jerryisbrain.com and maybe in this crowd, not so many, but one person added an other choice, functional, but not useful if I cannot carry my own brain or make my own notes. And so I didn't add, maybe I should have added that to this question, but I did add it down further. You'll see there's a new question that I added because of one person's really good feedback. The best way to access Jerry's brain is with Jerry as a guide, screen shared by myself, starting from a direct link and by myself through jerryisbrain.com. So that's breaking sort of evenly around that. The value is, the winners here are exploring context and connections and hearing stories with Jerry's brain as a visual aid. And then this is the new question. And I think somebody's just answering, oh, we're at six now, two people just answered the poll. Wow, okay, as we were sitting here because I just, like two minutes before this call, I sent it to the full OGM less. So we're gonna see some live responses come in, which is, I like Google Forms. So here we have more one-on-one time with Jerry's screen sharing a Q&A group call, reviewing tips and tricks, more explainer videos, a way to provide feedback on how to organize, a way to provide suggested additions to the brain, a way to add personal, and this is the one I added because of the other new answer. Working towards interoperability with other platforms and notifications on significant updates. And then this is, here's the feedback that caused me to add that question. And then here's the feedback about not liking radio buttons to enforce one choice. And if you feel strongly that I should delete the radio buttons and make those multiple guess, I mean, multiple check, I'm happy to change it, but I think in survey design, too many, if everybody answers all over the place, you don't really get very much information. So I'm trying to sort of narrow that. And then here's who's answered so far. So Todd Hoskins, this is Wendy McClain. This is some nice person named Stacy, et cetera, et cetera. So there we go. And let's go to the top to see what the new answers are. So here we have one answer. I seek it out myself to look things up. Come in. So this one's still split on only two answers. Cool. Well, this should be more interesting as the day goes on. And I'll stop the screen share. Thoughts, questions? And Mark, are you hearing us properly now? Awesome. Nothing like kicking the machine. Yes, basically dropping it on the floor and see what happens. Is that what they call it a reboot? Yes, I've put my boots on and gave it a kick. Let's see, the interesting, so I didn't hear the introduction and criteria and purpose, but the term that I did see that hit me was I have a different habit space. And that's still rolling around in my head. But I would like to know, I guess, you know, why? Why the survey? Why the, so at the Internet Archive, we are trying to figure out what the core experience is and basically, you know, be the UX designers. The user experience designers were supposed to be, although really we're just a bunch of programmers. Do you have anybody who's UX specialized on the team? There is. And certainly, you know, I have an interest, and I think everybody has an interest, but really, I think we need a deeper focus on what is the kind of experience that people are looking for, maybe that people need and maybe that we can steer them to that they don't know they need. And it's very difficult. It's a very difficult question. And I'm wondering, you know, how that type of question is being asked and answered by the survey? Perhaps. I think there's, so you're down a good path, Mark, but it seems like a path, it seems like a path that's not obviously, obviously the one that I, maybe there's other paths to have gone down before that even. So it's a good exploration. That's what you do when you're talking about a utility site or something like that, a site that has utility that people need and want and et cetera, et cetera. I think there's a preceding question. What is this thing Jerry's bringing to the world? What is it to Jerry? What is, you know, can Jerry make it more useful to more people? Is that used as a reference material? Is it as an interactive thing? Is it a community? Is it, you know, how does it overlap and not overlap with existing offerings? Let me just put a couple of things in to see and then I'll go to you. Mark, why is there actually a great question and Pete is getting right at it? I'm reminded of the day that Lotus announced Lotus Notes and that Notes came into the world and nobody had a fricking clue what to do with it, how it worked, what to do. IBM and Lotus had a really hard time explaining it until they didn't and until everybody was like on Lotus Notes and then IBM was on Lotus Notes way too long and missed like internet mail and all that kind of stuff. But, but Notes had this mystery like, what's this group where a thing and it's kinda itchy and uncomfortable and so forth. And so I'm trying to kind of explore the brain space in that spirit and with that goal kind of just figuring out like where's the value, what is it? Partly then to explain for a picture's brain like where the value is, like to find language to say, hey, this is what you could get and what's going on here. So there's a practical piece for me which is I wanna stand up picture's brain right now and start like earning a living, sharing my brain out for people who've got interesting questions, right? But then Mark, you're also reminding me of what you brought into the conversation when I first presented this poll I think for your brain, which was, hey, for you and me, the use of these tools has changed our lives. And also if we managed to create some kind of shared hive mind, that's going to be a different experience. And I don't think I'm getting, I'm hinting towards some of those things when I say a taste of the future collective mind or something like that in one of the radio buttons or one of the answers. But really I don't know how to pop open that conversation or that question. And I think it's important. So I think I'm missing that entirely. And then I think it was Jack Park who said, these were all very brain-centered questions. And I added an apology at the top that says now, sorry, I'm trying to focus here on the brain use. There's a bunch of other really interesting questions to pursue about other tools and so on and so forth. So I'm trying to actually be pretty focused about this thing. And now back to Stacey and then to Mark. Yeah, I just wanted to say real quick that what I see when I look at all those answers is overall a desire to become more interactive with the brain, whether they can add something or some sort of input mechanism. And the question I just added has a lot of what you just said, Stacey. And I was trying to think within the constraints of the brain and basically asking, hey, I'd like to be able to take my own notes and add them. It's like, not a feature of the brain. And so I was kind of limiting my own questions, I think maybe too much, but my goal is here not to present the brain with a list of feature requests, which I think will be hopeless, although this could turn into OGM platform design criteria, which is awesome, except we don't have an OGM platform design team. So far we're pretty haphazard about that. Mark, did you want to come back in about any of the stuff I brought up? Oh, sure. And one thing I wanted to add in briefly, I wrote in the chat Catacombs Tours, there might be some silly strange uses for the archive that get more usage and then equate people with the tools and then do whatever. Like people go to Notre Dame, well, when they reopen it again, I guess, but other churches, and they go crawl under and watch the skulls and everything else. And for me, the Internet archive is like a tell and the people who manage it are sort of archeologists of information and history and data and sort of docent tours of the archive through whatever area you wanted or even having a coterie of docents who you love and who get tiny stipends for doing so or something would be fantastic, would be super interesting. And I think might increase awareness usage and notoriety because if you actually said this is like a Catacombs, like making it a little bit strange makes it attractive and interesting. I love that. And I agree and people have brought that up before about the archive. And you can imagine I have the same, or similar, if not the same problem with the software that I've written. I brought it to VCs and they go, what's the benefit? And well, I guess it improves or deepens the quality of inner life. Okay, how do I sell that? And well, certainly these kinds of experiences are valuable but it's not the sale it's the experience and in terms of a larger brain participation, but certainly the way I put it is I have a solution and I have no idea what the problem is. And yeah, boy, I certainly don't want to discourage any kind of exploration in terms of how to articulate or even improve an explanation. I just know that in my case, I'm the only user and I need to get five users. And once I get five users, I'll get seven users and go on from there. But software is something that I'm happy to put off in lieu of actually using it and reading things and typing things in. And yeah, it's just a habit, a different habit. Then I met with Kevin, I forget Kevin's name. I forget Kevin's name. Jones? Yes, Kevin Jones. And he goes, it doesn't sound like your goal is shipping. I thought that was in a stewed comment. Yeah, it's in a stewed comment, Kevin. And he was showing me his network diagram where everybody's connected with circles and lines. So it was a Ziggy map or... Something like that. Yeah, I think it was a Ziggy map. Yeah. But I need to find the survey as I haven't seen it yet. I just sent it to the OGM, the Broad OGM list. And I also sent it, I put it on the, I think the Build The Free Jury's Brain List channel on Mattermost.  Ah, okay. So you might see two different versions from me in your email. So right, just woke up and have a big day at work today. So I'll eventually get to it. And yeah, I'm trying to both be empathic, empathize. And really go, aha, well, what is it that Jerry wants to happen?  And certainly, I've got tons of coding to do. And after thinking about this for 30 years, tons of ideas that haven't really been articulated in a public space. It's very interesting to me that I'm taking a group, a class right now restarting with the lyceum.institute group, a group of Thomas Catholic philosophers who basically want to improve the world by philosophy. And I'm taking a semiotics of culture course. And there is a Estonian Soviet philosopher, semiotician named Yuri Lottman, who has the notion of semiosphere, which is like the new sphere, but also kind of the collection of all cultural. It's like the global mind, it's like extended mind. But when I went to the Wikipedia for semiosphere, it was the craziest Wikipedia page I've ever seen. I highly suggest it. It's out there, it has pathophysics, it has everything but vampires. The Wikipedia page for which thing? Semiosphere. Semiosphere, cool. I'll put it up. Thanks. The lyceum institute is the link I just shared in the chat? Um, yes. It's a very interesting group. I wish they had more people, more people, but as a former Catholic, it's a lot of fun to encounter, you know, what is the umvelt of angels being discussed? But they're also serious semioticians. So it's a great course. Love that. Excuse me. Anyone else with thoughts on this question? Otherwise, I'd love to shift to a different topic. I'm assuming the question is sort of coming off of your nail and the brain and I'm gathering Mark's thoughts about shipping, you know, really. And the one thing I was just going to say is I was struck in doing the poll. I did it, you know, just as we were getting started. That there really are two separate issues in there is like how can Jerry's brain best benefit you, the poll taker, and us in general? And then what can I do with my brain and my, you know, as a resource to benefit me? And it was a little, it was a little, I felt a little, in answering the questions, I felt a little cold to you because I was addressing the first rather than the second and, you know, I kind of almost felt like I'd like to take it again, you know, for your sake. Because that's always an interesting thing. And I put a link in the chat to a talk that a guy who I work with by a CTA in Oli Breen who did a presentation, very, very researched. And I haven't even finished the whole thing. It's quite long, but 25 minutes into this YouTube meeting, he's talking about how we basically have, why we silo our efforts and what is holding us back from collaboration, even with the best intent. And it's really interesting. And I think, you know, food for thought for all of us. That was for me. So I'm sure that. Thank you. And the survey is consciously focused on my brain value from my brain to others. And only hints at, gosh, I wish I had a brain or anything like that or anybody using a different tool in a couple of places. It kind of only comes in there a little tiny bit. So you're right, you're very right about it. It's focused in that way. You're muted. Sorry. I don't know if I follow you that in your mind, which was it focused on? It's my brain, particularly not anybody else's, anybody else creating a brain or anything like that. Yeah.  Well, I'm trying to tease that. I'm trying to tease that out in one or two of the questions where I'm like, hey, the best way is with me or without me or whatever else. I may not have asked those very well because I was trying also to ask that without me my brain is like unusable. I can't figure it out. And there's like some people who are totally happy to go probe my brain without me and then they'll send me a question and say, hey, I noticed this isn't in your brain or could you elaborate on this or whatever? I get those, right? But then there's a bunch of people who like just bounce off it entirely and only enjoy it if I'm busy screen sharing and giving a tour or maybe recorded as well. I don't know. And there's also this interesting difference between only useful when I'm there interactively in person real time versus if I just made like a little video a day, would that be an interesting thing to absorb? So any other thoughts on this? Cool. Thank you for the help very much. I'll keep reporting back. It's fun to see and do and all that kind of stuff. I'm really interested in how we organize ourselves around some of the energy that's bubbling up around our GM conversations around grace and her quest on money and the broader quest about money value, et cetera around Sam Rose and the Civil War conversation and this idea of how do we weave? How do we actually, how do we do the work of OGMing, right? How do we make this a verb that people understand that people are like consistently interested in those sorts of things and what does that turn into functionally? It feels like a very, very billed OGMing kind of question to go in more detail in those areas and offer back to our group a little more structure on what this means. Please. I've got two other topics as well. I'd like to make sure that we hit before the end of the call. One of them is very likely do we sunset the discourse server? Do you want to see what the other one is? Yeah. I think it was, Rob O'Keeffe had a great idea about kind of a periodic regular update kind of email blog post thingy and I wanted to talk about that. Sounds great. Anybody with preferences on the three topics on the table? Let's talk about the discourse server because I think we can sort of answer that question relatively quickly and it's kind of a nicely bounded question. And I haven't jumped into that conversation and when I jump in, it's going to be like mea culpa, mea culpa. Like I think one of the reasons the discourse server hasn't brought any life is that I've been overwhelmed by it. Like I can keep up with our metamos and our mailing list and then whenever I go and try to dive into the discourse server I'm not good generally with threaded forums and trying to find my way and then make a good comment at the end because the time it takes to actually read a thread remember what was said and go back and post at the end. I've been distracted four times by other sorts of things so that format is really hard for me but I really value it and I like that you started it and it feels to me like maybe when we set it up it was like a bridge too far or I could have found a different way to motivate myself to go in but I'm relatively certain that because I'm kind of the spark of OGM that might not inhabiting it and answering questions and helping organize it is a big reason why it's not picked up its own energy although certainly not exclusively and there's a bunch of people who love that kind of forum and could make it into a fruitful zone. Am I close to what you're thinking, Peter? Maybe, the, let me and actually the, I have to say the money discussion on the mailing list would be so much better on a forum. So for me, the question of how we got here is interesting and I would love to talk about it and it's not super important. I wish it were, but it's not. The presenting situation is that the forum software needs to be updated. I haven't been tending it. Bill Anderson, bless his heart, has been actually logging in once in a while and approving people or disapproving people. We got an interloper who didn't seem like he should be there and we decided to kick him out. So the thing is, it's kind of a zombie, a zombie knowledge information system. But it has seemed reasonable to just kind of let it sit there and be itself for a while and see what happens. It's now to the point where the software needs to be upgraded because there's a security vulnerability. The bad thing that could happen is somebody could potentially, I think actually what they would do is somebody could maybe take over the server and start crypto mining or something on it. I don't think anybody's information is at risk. I don't think any people are at risk. It's just, you know, it's a server with attack services and the attack services need to be remediated. Not super, super, super urgently, but you know, soonish. So one choice is for the Sysadmin crew, me probably, to go in and update the software and make it all better again. And if you want, we can budget something from the RUT funds, RUT family foundation funds to do that. Yeah, kind of not an unreasonable path to choose. The path that I like so far and the foreign facilitation team, which is Bill and me and Rob and Charles and Jerry, I think, we haven't heard from Jerry yet, but the rest of us have kind of gone with my other suggestion, which is to turn the thing off, to figure out how to make the information available on web pages at least, static web pages. It would probably not be pretty. It would probably be searchable by Google. You know, it would be not ideal, but not bad. And there's a kind of an obvious question to me, which is, well, why don't you just leave it there and make it read only, right? Because that would fix it and that doesn't fix it. That doesn't fear the vulnerability.  And it's gonna be harder to navigate. Which is also work. Well, you know, that was part of the technical that I purchased when, you know, setting the thing up in the first place. So that's fine. Anyway, so kind of the proposal on the table is to preserve the information and static web pages somehow and then maybe as a file, maybe in, maybe if it works out and it's not too hard, maybe also in a way that could be unzipped back into a Discord server, should we ever want to. Does it have an archive format? Yeah, you can do a backup. So anyway, kind of mechanically, the mechanical parts of that is it's like, well, you'd probably want to make sure everybody knows that it's going away or that we intend for it to go away unless there's a hue and cry that like, oh my God, it's such an amazing resource and we should keep it. So that's kind of the thing. So two quick comments. One is it hadn't occurred to me to shift the money conversation onto discourse. I was very interested in probably creating a new channel for it on Mattermost because I'm just used to Mattermost and it seems to be a place and I'm liking also that I think other organizations are going to start using your server and to me, Mattermost is like the long hallway that connects a bunch of different organizations because you can go browse the public channels and join other people's conversations and that I think is going to be fruitful in the long run. And so one avenue here is to say, hey, let's give discourse one last swing. I've created a forum for this conversation about money, value, currencies, wealth, et cetera. And let's see if that works. And that probably also implies doing the upgrade. Right, and I don't know if you or others are interested in doing that. I could see if I only had to be worried about one forum that that would be actually a good way for me to get accustomed to it. And then also forum conversation feels like a limited version of the big fungus to me. It's like it's good and it's interesting. And I know that discourse forums are kind of state-of-the-art-ish in that realm, like they're really good, but they don't feel like the fungus that much. They feel like the conversation that should thread around the fungus and sort of be connected into the fungus in some sense, if that makes sense. Anyone else with thoughts? Then Mark, thanks for answering that question for Stacy. So this was something I don't think I was aware of. Of this server? Yeah, I don't, yeah. And I think I've tried Discord and kind of said, me, this is Discord. This is not Discord. Ah, well, perhaps. Discord is actually a different interesting question because Discord is very much like Mattermost. And discourse is more like the well. Huh, okay. Yeah, although it sounds like you're still not familiar with it. Still not familiar with it, yes. And so... There's the link to it. Oh, oh, maybe, no, no, I have been there. Okay. And yes, it seemed like an interesting place. It's just, you know, there's three different places. There's the email, this forum, and Mattermost, and... And the wiki. And the wiki, yes, yes. And I think he's called, Pete's wish was early on were to defecate the mailing list.  So I kind of wanted to keep that going. But yes, we have like four different places. I mean, I would say, sorry. Yeah, and this is an interesting test case when it comes to the notion of integration. Boy, is integration difficult and weird. Does everything that happen on the forum and Mattermost gets sent by email? Or, you know, there's notification settings and people can choose that. I would imagine it's simply, huh, how do we integrate when it comes to various information systems? I don't know anybody who solved that problem. I don't know if there's a good explainer. I haven't seen it, Pete. I haven't seen a good explainer out there about the differences between mailing lists, chat, servers, forums, and other kinds of things. The question Stacy just asked himself. I haven't seen a great explainer. But, and it's funny, you know, my fallback stuff is like, well, you've seen a bulletin board system, right? Well, you've seen the well, right? You've seen all the stuff that's been dead for 30 years or whatever. It's how people give directions in Boston. Like, you go to the roundabout and you turn right where the wall queens used to be. Yeah, yeah. Stacy, it's a great question. This course is set up for kind of one of the one of the axes, maybe a couple of different axes for different things. There's how long the messages are, like, how long it takes to create it. Or tweets. And then another one is how immediate it is. So email is kind of an immediate thing and the messages can get long. And there's another thing about email. It was designed for different use than the email lists today use it for. So it's got some problems. Like, the subject line is always kind of meaningless.  That's the subject line of all the discussions that we've had about money, right? You could actually separate those out into different threads. Another thing about email is that each of the messages is carrying along all the replies for all the things. So literally, if you go into one of those messages, each message is a duplicate of the whole thread, kind of from a different point of view from everybody, right? So forum software, discourses a forum, kind of solves most of those problems. It makes a discussion space. It allows long messages. It's on the web, so it's a website. So it's a lot easier to go back and read through things a month later, six months later, two years later, five years later. It's on the web, so it's searched by Google. So if somebody not in OGM Googled up, you know, Grace Money or some of the things that came up, you know, Money and Blockchain and blah, blah, blah, they might actually start hitting on the forum software. That's another good thing. It's discourse, the forum software just allows more kind of surface area for, it's like the ability to have a bunch of email discussions of in different topic areas, right? We could be talking about money, we could be talking about regenerative agriculture, we could be talking about social good and the capitalist system and all of that stuff is pretty easy to find, it's pretty easy to navigate, it's pretty easy to read through threads that have been sitting there for, you know, a day or a week or a month. How is that different than that? Can't we do that on Mattermost too? Or what's the difference? Mattermost, if you had a slider, forum software is kind of like reading books and magazines and if you move the slider more towards text messages but not all the way to text messages, you get Mattermost. So Mattermost is something where a little thing is gonna pop up and say, Pete, you've got two or three things to read, you know, right now. And it helps keep track of that stuff and things are sorted into topic areas but not really into threads. So there is a blockchain channel on, for instance, a blockchain channel on Mattermost or there's the build a gym channel on Mattermost. And you see, you know, things pop up but it's kind of like a text message or WhatsApp or something like that, if you know WhatsApp. It's a little bit of conversation back and forth but anything that happened more than a few days ago has scrolled off and I could find it if I know how to search it but I'm probably not going to find it. So if we had a discussion about money, for instance, you'd get this rich and easier, easier to follow and more rich conversation right in the moment and for a couple days before and a couple days after and then after that the whole thing kind of gets hazy and fuzzy and falls away. So another slider would be memory, right? A discourse forum is super good at memory. It's going to remember things for years and you'll be able to find it super easily. Mattermost can remember things for a few days literally and after that it's kind of like, I don't remember. Email is kind of this weird mishmash probably I can find it if I do a search in my inbox but I'm probably not, I can't browse through it. I can't find discourse, the forum software, you can go back and when we were operating 2020 or whatever, you can see all the things that we were talking about and you can just browse through them. In your email inbox, in your mailing list, it's like, I don't know what we were talking about a year ago or two years ago. I think there was a money conversation. I think we talked about whatever but there's no way to find it, right? The forum software just makes that trivially, beautifully easy to do. So I would really, really point sort of, I think reality check. I think it's interesting that Slack ate the business world and people are sort of more or less happily on Slack cooperating, reducing one thinks maybe a bit of the email which was part of the picture of social text was like get rid of some of your email. But Slack is really caught fire and its plugins make it really functional because you can get data from your different, services across the enterprise which is a different conversation. But corporations are not sitting, talking and threaded discussions that I know of almost anywhere. Like it hasn't really caught fire. And then Stacey's adding like Facebook and I'm assuming kind of Facebook group structure which has caught fire as well. And is Facebook groups more like Matamos slash Slack? Is that kind of the- I would say Facebook groups is a little bit more like, it's more like a forum than Matamos, I think. But I don't think of like Threads and- It doesn't have the, yeah, it doesn't have the information management features of a forum. But they're very popular. The Slack thing, so in a company you need a way to walk around the virtual floor of the company and from Q to Q, right? You have to go tell somebody, yo, today is the day I need that thing from you, right? Or by the way, in two weeks, we're gonna have a big pitch, right? Where's your status on the big pitch? So you need a chat system like Matamos or Slack just to understand what's going on in your company. Kind of across the board, people don't remember things. People have an oral culture, they don't have a written culture. It's odd when we get to either the storytellers who have, who hold the memory for the tribe or now that I think about it, I don't even know how books work because people just don't like. But anyway, I guess people read books but they don't participate in books. They don't have a written culture. They don't write stuff into the memory of the tribe. That's for specialists. So it doesn't surprise me that Slack is the thing that business likes and a memory system like an intranet or a wiki or a forum thing is not what happens because most people don't participate in written culture, they just don't. Michael, thank you for being patient. Sure. Well, just in terms of the difference, I'm sorry, I wanted to speak to that and also the thing that's missing to me and somewhere between Jerry's brain and a forum, there's the idea of something that really is built around your access to the archival information and is accretive, not necessarily sequential. I mean, though it could be searched that way that takes individual posts and lets them be accessed by, I mean, it's kind of hard, like you can't, if you're interested in a subject and you're looking at a forum, it's not like you can say, show me all the posts that are tagged this or that are from, with some bulletin board software, you can say, show me everything from this person, but it's this Kluge jumping into a middle of conversation, jumping out, it's not really an information access, it's not built for information access, it's built for ongoing discussion. I think I disagree. Well, I mean, if you wanted all the information. I did use a trigger word, I used trivially, which- Sure, sure. But could we look at the OGM forum real quick and poke around a little bit? Oh, I mean, I have, and for sure. I mean, it's a forum and it's a good forum. I mean, it's a sleepy forum at the moment, but I mean, I'm pro forum. I'm just saying, I'm just adding to the conversation that for kind of Stacy's sake, like that there's this other thing that is more expressed by, depending on how people use it, a notion of Evernote, a factor of Jerry's brain, all in different ways are about contextualizing pieces of information in different ways for access and sort of non sequential, non that forums and matter most forums and chat, real time chat are both sequential things that may have like links within them and kernels of stuff that you would like wanna search for on their own, but are built for an ongoing somewhat organized conversation, I mean, to flower and that's awesome and we need that. Yeah, I was just looking for a discussion of the other thing, the other things that lie between Jerry's brain and... Sounds like a Twilight Zone episode.  And I was like, wait, what? If I may, unless there are objections, let me share screen on the forum. And I didn't expect this topic to either call, so. Yeah. I should have known better. But here's the way the forum looks. And so imagine what you can find in the OGM list from 2021, right? A year ago, half a year ago, something like that, right? Would you be able to say that, oh, there's a conversation about OGM as a complex adaptive social system or how we deal with newcomers at OGM. So just from the homepage, there's a bunch of stuff I can, it just falls out of looking at the page, like here's a bunch of stuff that we were talking about. God knows how long ago, right? And then diving into these things, it's like, oh, wow, here's a conversation. So imagine like, so right here, I can visualize like a hundred times much more stuff than I could in the email archives, right? And then on any one of these things, I can click into it and here's a nice thread that I could just read, right? And then there's probably the browse things. I can go see what Tony's talked about everywhere, not just here, right? Or I could search, I could search for money.  Probably not, right? How about currency and stuff, right? So we, as I said earlier, we could use the money conversation to see if we can't like do CPR on the forum. Yeah, I think that's, it's a good suggestion to bring up. But in practice, in reality, it's not that we haven't, the problem is one of accessibility, right? The forum is essentially not accessible to people who are used to the mailing list. Mattermost is, you know, barely accessible to many of the people on the mailing list. There's a bunch of people in the money thread on the OJ mailing list who have an account on Mattermost and they don't use Mattermost, right? So what we've found over the past couple of years is that people get used to their information system, whatever the sliders, you know, they like, and they get an ingrained practice of, you know, I get up in the morning, I read whatever it is I read, Twitter or my email inbox or a forum system or Discord or whatever, Mattermost. And that's pretty much what I'm gonna continue to do. So it would be an interesting, it wouldn't be interesting. It would be a valiant effort to try to revive the forum. I think it's not. So are we agreed to sunset it? I think, yes I am. Anybody want to argue for its survival? Well, I think this is ironic because I think what I was saying came up as an attack on it. I see the value, I see the value of it and I think it's a good thing. I'm just, I'm looking for, I'm looking for the library where that's more the meeting hall. It's definitely a thousand times better than the email chain, which is a disaster. You're wishing for the big fungus, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.  So another thing that I kind of know about the forum is we've had a bunch of discussions about whether or not we should have a wiki as well as the forum, right? So the amazing thing about Discord is not only is it fairly organically, it organizes itself pretty well, but it's super, super easy to have a small team which we still have amazingly enough.  It's super easy to take Discord and groom it into a library as well as a meeting hall. It's amazing like that. You could start, you could have essentially a wiki that's easier for most people to use inside Discord, right? You could have a notion that's easier for most people to use inside Discord. It takes a tiny bit of gardening, but it's a really small amount of gardening. It's easy and fun and useful. And so we had that discussion about OGM forum, should this be the wiki rather than NASA wiki? But your point is taken. It is first and foremost, it's a meeting hall. And I'm like, I've never known it since I've been involved, you know, about a year, never been pointed to it as where the action was to the degree that I was toward MatterMos. For sure. And so I sort of, you know, given what you say about Discord, I'm sort of sad to see it go before I really got a chance to try it and wonder about the push thing.  And do we wanna go down that road when it seemingly hasn't worked? There's actually not that much work involved. And I'm down to do that. And I think probably a good chunk of the foreign facilitation team would be. It's, what we found out is that it's very unlikely to be successful because it's not, you know, it's not the way people think. It's not the way people want to interact. It's not, you know. I don't know that it's not the way people think. I think that it takes some discipline and some group crafting work to get in there and do it. I think it's doable if there are some very successful discourse communities out there having a very fun time with a power tool. It's just that, like when you have a table saw, like when you have an actually good circle saw with a miter joint and then over there you've got like a high water pressure cutter and you have to learn to run CAD-CAN software to do it. Like what you can do is like phenomenal but you've gotta be in there with some discipline and some, you know, some whatever. And it's not even discipline because this isn't an unruly space like a wiki. This is a highly structured discourse form that kind of unfolds by itself but getting people in there and all that takes some work which we haven't been able to do. I kind of want to say that I want to go back a little bit to the money conversation and how to scaffold it because I think there's a couple of things happening there and I really like the energy around it and I love how Grace posted to the whole list and said, hey, kind of here's my project and here's what I'm trying to get done. And I think that there's kind of a Grace thread inside of the larger money, value, currency, conversation and thread. And discourse might be a great place to manifest those merely as sort of pieces of a forum section with some threads and some conversations that might actually make it kind of palpable what that's like because there's things that could happen that are specific to Grace's initiative that I think a lot of OGMers might be interested in helping with and how that fits inside of a larger conversation is itself like really interesting, including what is the role of blockchain Bitcoin, NFTs, et cetera, et cetera in this future and other kinds of threads like that. So I'm interested very much in money as the opening for better scaffolding for a deeper discussion because I don't see how to do what I just said easily using MatterMost. I think it's going to turn into here's a channel and it's going to be a bunch of conversation.  Yep. Can I ask a question about? No. I always want to say that when somebody says, can I ask a question when they're perfectly welcome to ask a question like, yes, please. So the email chain is completely independent of any, that's just email. And something when the conversations are going on because I have to confess, I thought that I was receiving email notifications of a conversation that was happening on the OGM forum for the longest time. And I've realized that it wasn't that because I didn't see the activity on the forum when I went to look for it and then I never went to the forum again. But if there was some way for people who are only emailers to know that the discussion that was happening there was being mirrored in some other place and recorded and therefore searchable, that would be awesome. So let people do their own thing. And like I say, I thought it was the other way around. I thought, oh, I'm not going to read this email because I can always go back and read it on the forum. This sounds like an interesting conversation. I'd like to delve deeper. I wonder where it came from. And it's not that. Jay is going to go. So should we talk about this next week and hold on any action? Yeah, Jerry's lamenting. I'm like, do we have a revival meeting or a funeral? Like I'm totally torn. All right. Let's talk about it next week. Let's do that. That sounds great. I thank you for this. Yeah. Thanks, Tom. Thank you.


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Welcome to Toffy TV, it is the player ratings Everton won, Nothing in Forest won a big opportunity for Everton to get their face win, but Everton just won good enough today at all. No cutting edge at the final third, build up play wasn't good enough, face 20 minutes was fine, like I mentioned in my match reaction, but no, serious things need to be looked at, the players getting brought in, the formation isn't getting the best out of it. That's a big opportunity miss because I thought they were very very ordinary, very very ordinary, and to have to score a 88 minute goal to get a draw against the promoter side is pretty poor isn't it, pretty poor. Let's get into the player ratings then Jordan Pickford, to be fair he was not an issue for most of the game, but on their goal sadly he's palmed the ball out straight to Brendan Johnson, he's finished it really well, but the shot I don't even think was that hard and he's palmed it right back into the only player in the box. I've watched it again and just poor goal keeping, because really if he keeps his arms flat he palms it away, away from the goal, there's almost like an angle on where he parries it to and it goes straight to the goal scorer, I thought that was really really poor. He made a slight amends with the assist for the goal, it was a great ball over the top, most of the game he was fine, some of his kicking sometimes was a little bit, especially when Brendan went off and we didn't really have a centre forward, some way he would kick him. Big mistake for me, big mistake, I've given Pickford a six just for his all round gaming because he did set up the winning goal, but big big mistake that really shouldn't be palming out there, it should be going out and wide not back into the goal area. To move on, Nathan Patterson, again attacking wise, not too bad defensively, he still needs to learn a hell of a lot defensively because there's far too many times where his body shape's all wrong and people just walk past him in the box. So that is definitely something he has to hugely improve on. Going forward, I think he's improving, sometimes he makes poor decisions, but he is a notice today trying to be available, especially if the ball's on the left hand side, he's trying to make himself available on the right hand side all the time. If anyone's got the ball in and can get a cross out there, so slowly, I do think being in a, as a wing back will help him as he gets used to the Premier League, so that will help him. He has always played in that position when he's played for Scotland, and that's why that helps him. He hasn't played a lot at right back, so it's not necessarily the position that he's used to, so maybe again that's one of the reasons why we're looking at playing with wing backs. But everything has got to evolve into a system where it's three, four, three, and not five, two, three. It's got to evolve, otherwise we just don't create enough and we don't have enough width. So, I've given Paterson six on the other side, Michal Lenco, good into the tackle, offensively not really given us anything at all. It's something that's been clearing all three games, how little is coming from him on the left hand side, and that has to improve, has to improve. I think defensively he's still doing it, he's funny because he's on the other side, I think defensively he's alright to a point, but offensively I don't think we're getting anything from him. If you're playing with them as your width, you've got to start off on something, so we're going to have to, in the next few weeks going to be interesting if this system continues. It suits the centre backs to a point, but it doesn't, at the moment, the way we're playing it, it is like having five at the back of times. There's no adventure from the wing backs to get forward enough and play high enough, and that's where someone in the midfield, a gana type player would make so much difference to this team, having someone who can fill in and allow those plays to get forward. But also it's what happens when they get forward, where they offer something, Michael Enco to me has offered nothing in the three games.  Maybe we have to start in games like that, start looking and go well maybe we can bring Bernard Green and he can be more offensive, it's something they're going to have to look at going forward. Right now the team for me just doesn't wake, just doesn't wake the players we've got in the setup. I've given Michael Enco five and a half because I just, I don't, going forward I thought he was pulling. James Tarkowski, I just out here the shocker today, absolute shocker. Everything he touched just, or everything he didn't touch ended up.  Things were bouncing off on him, he's letting things bounce, he was some of his clearances. I don't know if playing on the left hand side of the three suits him, but he was really poor today, really poor. He just started badly and just never improved. And now maybe it's because he, maybe Cody's took the role he thought he was going to be in the middle, but he was poor today. And hopefully it's just an isolated game, hopefully it's just one of those games, but there's so many little things like letting the ball bounce and the ball going over his head and things. Just dead basic defensive things and as I said, I hope that's something that improves going forward.  And obviously him playing out there I don't think really works. He's had to be shifted over there to accommodate Mason Holgate on the other side where Ben Godfrey would have played on the left hand side. So not a good day for him at all, I've given him a five. Conor Cody, I thought Conor Cody had that. There was little moments today I really, really enjoyed seeing. He was like, there was one where, there was one where a Wobie got back on the left hand side in the Gladys Street, in the corner with the Gladys Street and the Bullens. And he came over to a Wobie and his partner and he's given the fist bumps and stuff. And there was little things like that today where I just thought, you should be the captain of this team. I know it's your first down game, but he really led, like really led by example today. I put his body in the way and if he made a mistake, he made sure he rectified it. I thought from that side of things, I thought he was excellent today. He's a proper, proper defender. He doesn't make, he doesn't tend to let things bounce or just, he tends to win pretty much everything that's in the air as well. And I thought, I thought he done really well today. I thought he was the real leader that was needed, the organisers, getting us up the pitch. Just little things that I think I've been missing in the last couple of years. Getting us up the pitch when the ball, getting the team up the pitch. Getting for old school basic centre-back stuff that is maybe going out the window a little bit, but I've really enjoyed seeing that side of his game today. It's a long time since I've seen that from a centre-back. So I've given Conoco the seven and a half. Mason Hallgate, solid, pretty solid game. No issues as such. Yeah, he's been, been, been fine, been fine. I've given him a seven. As I said, he's come in in the last couple of games and he's, he's looked. He just looks like someone, a nice, steady player that you don't have to really worry about. Okay, he hasn't got the pace of a Ben Goffy or the strength and that's still missing. Cos as I said then, the back three's had to be shifted around a little bit.  Into midfield Tom Davis, bit of a surprise inclusion. I told Tom was fine today. I honestly don't know why we subbed Tom off. I don't know why we subbed him off. I thought he was getting his foot in and getting us out of a few little moments where he was coming back and helping the defenders and just putting his foot in. There was one, he dragged wide in the first half. I thought he'd scored. But Tom was fine today. He was exactly like he was when he came on against Aston Villa. And I really don't understand why Frank Llanparg took him off. I really don't. Unless it was a fitness thing, I really don't know. It was like he had this new toy on the bench and he just couldn't wait to get it out. And I really think, I just don't think that worked. I really think Tom was the easy sub. But he was our only real defensive sitter. You know, we'll come on to it in a minute, but I just don't understand why. I just thought the sub, the stubble sub, I just don't think it worked at all. I don't think it worked at all. And I'd have left Tom on and I would have brought, if you're bringing on O'nana on, listening after seeing O'nana, I wouldn't have brought O'nana on for till maybe the last 10 minutes. Because he was, we'll come on to O'nana. But I just, I thought Tom was steady, absolute steady. I'm going to give Tom a 6.75. I thought he was nice and steady, not amazing. Didn't do anything incredible. Just did his job, but he's such an easy sub to come off. But when he came off, we lost something. We lost a player sitting in the middle of the midfield who just did the basics. I just didn't understand why we took him off.   So, yeah. And I thought that made a big change on the game. Next one, a Wobie. A four to four of his games again. Four he did his job picking up the bits, defending, trying to break forward. Excellent, excellent. Excellent play. Again, little things like maybe a couple of times where under it passes and things like that. But he was trying to get forward. He was trying to play on the front foot, trying to get plays in behind. And I thought he had a good game. I did. I thought he had a good game. I've given him a 7.75. So, yeah. He's been our best player in the three games. So, great start of the season. Going to be interesting if we get the plays we want in, where he fits into it all. But did really well, did really well. Damari Greid, the goalscorer, started really well. Again, face 20 minutes. Like some other people's, some other players who play today started really well. But unfortunately drifted out of the game. But then obviously got the goal. That was a great run. Well-timed. Great face touch to be fit. To be honest, reminded me of the goal he scored against Bayne last season. And a really good finish. But during the game he was just far too many times when, again, a little bit running through blind alley. 100% sure he was going to do with it. And he picked it up. I've given him a 7.5. But needs to just have a bit more direction when he plays. Needs to have a bit more, when he picks the ball, you need to know what he's going to do with it. And I don't think him and Anthony Gordon had enough of that today. But it was a really good goal. It was a really good ball by John Pickford. Great face touch and a really good finish. So fair play. We needed it obviously. We needed it obviously to get us a point. Another defeat would have been horrendous for us today, wouldn't it? It is really disappointing that we haven't got three points. But if we haven't got a goal scorer, then what can you do? Anthony Gordon again started really well.  A couple of moments where I thought he'll score here. He put a good ball in. But after 20 minutes he just went out the game. He picked up an absolutely stupid... He looked really hyped up for the game. And I can understand why with everything that's gone on. He looked really hyped up for the game.  Got a yellow card.  And then that was it. He drifted out the game. And then he started bottling little 50-50s. And there was one where I think someone put him through and he bottled the challenge on the goalkeeper. And he just drifted out the game completely. A few little moments where he picks up the ball. But far too many times we slowed the game down in the final third. And he was a big culprit of that. He slowed the game down. And I just thought... Do you know when you're looking at anything that someone's offered nearly 50 million quid for him? You think? DM me. DM me out. I'd expect more for a player that someone values for 50 million quid. I've given him a six. But he needs to do better. He needs to do better.  There's no end product at all with him. And that's... It's worrying that everyone would knock back money that is vitally needed for strikers. Rondon. Honestly, again, I don't... Unless Rondon was absolutely on his ass, which I didn't think he was. I don't know why we took Rondon off. Because I think he gave... Listen, I don't particularly think he had a very good game.  But he gave us a shape. He gave us something to play off. He pushed the centre back and stretched the game a little bit. And when we took him off and played the white mark Neil for the off-runs, then the game just... The game just become frantic. The centre backs were allowed to push forward. And, yeah, it was just... To me, it didn't work. It just didn't work at all. And I'd have kept Rondon on as long as possible to keep the shape for the team. But the simple fact is, when you've got someone from play centre forward, you have a shape to your team. And it's so obvious what we need now. And if the club don't go and get what we need, I'm not asked about Domino Cavalluno when he's back. If the club don't get what we need, then we're going to be in the same situation we were last season. It's as simple as that. It's as simple as that. Because for us to dros, you know, and they might improve, they might improve because of the plays they brought in. But we are dros. Sorry, they are dros, but we are in front of goal. We can not put the ball in the back of the net. We need to bring in strikers. We need to bring in attacking players. You can do that. Because we haven't got them at the moment. They have to do that quickly because that's almost like another game we've threw away there today. Rondon had won that. I think he just put wide a really good effort in the second half. Took it and turned. We had a striker of any note there today. We just scored a couple of goals there. We just scored a couple of goals without a doubt. I've given Rondon a six. The subs. O nanne. Well, he's got 30 minutes under his belt as me in the Premier League. He's frantic, isn't he? Absolutely frantic. Again, reminded me of when Fellaini came. The pace of the game at this stage is too quick for him. Straight away, he's taking a touch and he thinks he's got time and he hasn't. That's where he got his yellow card. Bringing the lad down. Then he has another one where you're thinking, oh, here we go. Then after that, he settled down but he couldn't tackle anyone or do anything. That's where the manager again has to train his money. He must have seen that in training. Listen, he's a good player. He's got loads of talent. He just needs to settle down and, of course, he'll improve and game time is good for him. It just didn't work today because he got booked really early once he got booked. You can tell he's neat inside. He's got loads of little touches but he's also quite confident about his own ability. He's only been in the Premier League for two minutes. He has to settle down and understand the speed and do things that are just the basics. Just get the basics right for the first few weeks. Keep it nice and tidy for the first few weeks. Then grow. Your skills will start coming out. It was a poor game when you look at in terms of the yellow card and how frantic he was. I'm sure he's going to improve. He's a very, very talented player who's got no experience playing in the Premier League and he just needs time to settle down. The minute on the pitch will help that, of course, he will. It's just that when it's 0-0 and it's still half an hour to go and you haven't got another holding midfielder and it's not easy. Hopefully, he looks a really good confident player and I'm sure he'll become a vital asset for Evan. So, not his best starter was Evan Crier at home. I'll give him a five. Dwight MacNeill didn't really offer anything. He was brought on up front. He's not a centre forward. Again, shows you where the club is. That's why I can't understand why he took Rondon off. He didn't look like he was dying out there. Give him a five as well. Tried to do things, but never really come off for him. Evan needs to bring plays in ASAP. Simple as that. We are not a good team and we need to bring in players. We need to bring in forwards. We need to bring in attacking players. We need to bring in people who can score goals with the ball in the back of the net. Someone who will grab one early in that game and then take it away from Forrest. If we'd scored first in that game today, I think I'm quite confident we would have won the game. But it never happens. So, there you go. My player ratings. Let me know your thoughts in the comments. Lots of you who are live already have some bizarre comments as well. There you go. On to Tuesday night against Fleetwood. Brenford next week. Make sure you check out Baz's videos as well. Check out my instant reaction from the Gladys Deed. I'll catch you all later.


Last couple of sessions, we covered quite a bit about the Holy Spirit. The person of the Holy Spirit, that is what we are learning. What did you understand? What was your takeaway from those two sessions, two hours that we spent? Without looking into your notes, what is it that's staying with you about the Holy Spirit? Anyone? Just one thing you can share. Online folks also, you can put it in the chat. That's just the one thing that has stayed with you, that kind of stood out, that was highlighted, what we learned about the Holy Spirit. Anyone? Holy Spirit is God. That's one thing that stood out for you. Anyone else? Holy Spirit, He has emotions. He can be grieved. He can be saddened. He can be quenched. Anyone else? Holy Spirit is omnipresent. He is present everywhere, not confined to one place, time. That's true. Our fellowship with the Holy Spirit, that's something that stood out. Krisha, read that. Just go ahead and put it on the chat. Anyone else here? Trinity, yes. And what is it at? So we looked at, we started about the Trinity. Check, check, two, three, check, two, three. Check, I guess you can hear me now? Yeah, if you can hear me. Okay, okay. I just got my headset on. Right. Okay, so I see some more comments here. Holy Spirit coming through our hearts. Okay, I'm not too sure what do you mean by that, Arila? You can put down on the chat. Okay, our fellowship with the Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit is the one who will be with, within, yes, within us. He is the one who guides us and protects us. Okay, so Arila, if you see, if you can just clarify, Holy Spirit coming through our hearts, you can just put it on the chat. Okay, so Nina says he abides with us forever. He testifies and points to Jesus. He speaks. Okay, wonderful. So we looked at all this in our last session. Just one second. Okay, so today, any other responses here? Any other things that we learned? Okay, so based on what we learned before we get into our notes, based on what we learned, okay, how has it changed your relationship with God? Did it change or not change? You can be honest. He says it didn't change. It's okay. But if it changed, then you can let me know in what way. Right? So did it change your relationship with God, your relationship with the Holy Spirit? That's the question. Okay, anyone here? On the chat also, you can just put it, you know. See, we looked at several things. Trinity, we looked at who the Holy Spirit is. We looked at the person or the Holy Spirit.  Okay, this stood out. So did it really change your understanding? But did it change our relationship? Right? That's an important thing, right? So if so, in what way? So that's the question. Okay, anyone? Did it change our relationship with the Holy Spirit? Okay. So here's what, here's something that, no, I just wanted to share that. See, we have this understanding that has changed, right? About God. The fact that, hey, he can be lied to. He has emotions. He speaks. He leads, et cetera. He can be convinced. Okay. So which means that since my understanding has changed, I need to move in and take that step and say, God, I'm going to invite you now with this understanding, with this revelation. I'm just inviting you for an encounter. Okay. So he's saying that, okay, he speaks. God, I want to hear you more. Right? I want to hear you more. Well, you can be grieved. I want to stop doing those things that grieve you. Okay. Okay. Right? Well, you lead and you guide. I need leading. I need guidance. So I just want to encounter more of that. I want to be led in my decisions in just a minute. Thank you for that. Yeah. Okay. Krishna says more aware of his emotions now. That's good. So the thing is this, we invite him and we yield. Even as we invite ourselves, we yield and say, Lord, you show me in all these ways. You show up in my life in all these ways. Right? So that's something. That is something that we need to do because we, it's good that we are hearing the word. It's good that we are understanding the word, getting this revelation of the word and saying, wow, there's so much. What we need to move into, you know, putting things into practice, right? Applying the word.  Right? Not just for us to, you know, learn something new. Yeah. But he wants to be that. He wants to show himself, you know, strong on our behalf. That's a beauty. Right?  So he wants to speak to us. He's the God who leads. So he wants to lead us, lead me personally. Right? So that's the very important thing. Okay. So even as we, you know, learn all these things, you ask God. You ask the Holy Spirit. You say, Lord, I want to be led by you. I want you to speak to me and he will, I want you to show me God and he will. Okay. Okay. Let's move on to chapter three. Right? Okay. So we're in chapter three and we're looking at the work of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament. Okay. The work of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament. Okay. Question was God, you know, is it the same God that we're talking about in the Old Testament and the New Testament? Or is it a different God? Same God, right? Same in the Old Testament and New Testament. But we see in the way he, in the way he ministered, in the way he moved, there is a difference. There is a difference before the cross and there is a difference after the cross. Right? So what is the difference? Specifically regarding the Holy Spirit. Okay. What is the difference? The way in which he ministered, the way, you know, what is the difference? The difference is this, that before Christ ascended and he said, you know, I send the promise of the Father. That is what he said, right? I send the promise of the Father. He will come. He will abide with you forever. Right? That is, we see that the Lord promising that in, I think, John chapter 15, I guess, 14, 15, 16, you know, and we see that happening in the book of Acts, right? Acts chapter 1, Acts chapter 2, Acts chapter 2 specifically, we see that happening, right? So there is a difference. In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit would come upon the people. He would come, empower someone. He would come, you know, for a specific assignment and lead them to do that and then he would go. But in the new dispensation, that is, after the cross, he comes to abide with us forever. Stay with us forever. So that is why we have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Okay. So there is a big difference, right? The way he moved in the Old Testament, the way he moved in the New Testament. There's so much that we can learn about the Holy Spirit, about the way he moved, what he did in the Old Testament. So we're going to look at how and what the Holy Spirit did in the Old Testament and we're going to learn a lot of things, just like how we learned that Holy Spirit is a person. We're going to see, it's going to really open up our understanding of the Holy Spirit can do this. The Holy Spirit can do this also, right? Okay. So let's go. So we see Genesis, we see that Holy Spirit, you know, like we saw he was God present at creation. He was moving over the waters and we see that there's a word that used there, you know, Genesis chapter one and that word, that Hebrew word, in English we see that the Holy Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters, right? So Genesis one verse two. The Hebrew word which is used there, rakaf, which means to brood over, like how a hen would brood over the, her eggs, that bunch of eggs in order to bring it to hatching, right? So that's the word that we see here, right? So the Holy Spirit was actually literally birthing creation and he was hovering over the waters. So that is something that we see here, right? Okay. We, when we read through, there are a couple of references again in Genesis, Genesis six and verse three. Okay, just keep your Bibles handy. We're going to be reading through a lot more, a lot of references. So Genesis six and verse three, this is after the flood and the Lord is saying, my spirit shall not strive with man forever for he is indeed flesh yet his days shall be 125 years. Okay. So he's saying I will not strive. My spirit will not strive with man. Okay. Then I'm just skipping a few things. We're going to Genesis 41. Okay. Genesis 41 and okay, verse 38, right? Genesis 41, 38. So here we see about, we read about Joseph. We see that he is in Pharaoh's court and this is what we see. Okay. So he interprets the dream for Pharaoh and this is what the Pharaoh testifies. He says, verse 38, can we find such a one as this? A man in whom is the spirit of God? Okay. So now, in fact, Joseph himself says verse 15, if you go, if you see there, just back to verse 15. Pharaoh said to Joseph, I have had a dream and there is no one who can interpret it, but I have heard it said of you that you can understand the dream to interpret it. So Joseph answered Pharaoh saying, it is not in me. God will give Pharaoh an answer of peace. So he's saying it is God who does this. Does what? Give the understanding of the dream and the interpretation of the dream. It is God who does this. So for Joseph, the spirit of God, the Holy Spirit gave him an understanding of the dream and also the interpretation of the dream. Now, was it important or not? What do you think? This particular interpretation for the Pharaoh, was it important or not? How important was it? I think that's Daniel.  So verse eight is what you're referring to. He calls the magicians and no one could interpret. And then the butler says, oh, there was this man in prison and he could interpret. So he interprets. Okay. So this dream is interpreted. So how important was it? You know, sorry. Okay. It was important because Pharaoh could not sleep. Okay. That's what Rinchen Rinchen is saying. Okay. Anyone? Okay. I see Krisha saying it was important for Egypt's future. Yeah. It was a matter of life and death. Why? They're going to be seven years off plenty followed by seven years of famine. Okay. So it's actually a foretelling of the land's future. And it came to the Pharaoh in a dream and interpretation also comes now through Joseph. It was a very important. It was for the nation of Egypt. Right. And we see that Joseph not only does he give the understanding of the interpretation, but because of the wisdom of God that was in him, right, we read prior to that spirit of God, you know, being in him and he, he handled all the responsibilities very wisely because the Lord was with him. He gives a strategy, right, for the nation of Egypt because of which they store up, they save and they're able to go through those years of famine. Okay. So how did this come from the Holy Spirit? Right.  Right. Now, maybe there are people, maybe there's a chief minister, the prime minister, the president who's having dreams and they don't know that maybe they just think that it's just a dream. It's just a dream about India. Right. Maybe they're having dreams and, you know, looking for those Josephs to interpret and give that understanding. Right. And maybe it's something to do with your own family.  Right. So someone has a dream and God is, you know, speaking something because there's no other way that they would maybe receive that message. Maybe there's no other way. Maybe there's no reference for God in their lives. Right. Maybe somebody like that, no reference for God or they don't care that the God is alive or not or whether God wants to speak to them or not. They don't care. But God cares and God gives them a message how through the dream because they're not going to listen any other way. And the fact is those who have the Spirit of God in them can rely on the Holy Spirit, rely on the Spirit of God and bring forth the interpretation. So you see, you know, the Spirit of God can do it in our day and time as he did in the Old Testament in those days. Right. Okay. Let's, let's move on. We go to Exodus. Okay. Now this is very, very interesting. Exodus chapter 28. Okay. Where we again learn about what the Holy Spirit can do now. So you see, we give this, we get this understanding that God is interested in our nation. God is interested in the affairs of the land because we are His creation. He's not saying, okay, you guys do what you want. You don't even worship me. Right. It's this land is full of, you know, a pagan, a paganism. No, Egypt was like that. There were sun worshipers, you know, all kinds of things they were worshiping. But God intervened in their lives. He cared so that they should not perish. They should have enough grain. Right. So God can do that. So here, you know, let's look at Exodus 28. We're going to look at verse three. What does it say? So shall. Okay. Just a little bit of background. Moses, everybody is in the wilderness. They've come out of Egypt. The people of Israel, you know, is this whole group which is there in the wilderness. And then God is giving some very clear instructions for Moses, for Aaron, so that they can build a tabernacle in order to worship him. Okay. They've come out of Egypt. So that's the background. Right. Okay. So, so God is saying, let's read from verse one. Exodus 28. Now take Aaron, your brother and his sons with him from among the children of Israel that he may minister to me as priests, Aaron and Aaron's sons and Adam, Abihu, Eliezer and Itamar. And you shall make holy garments for Aaron, your brother for glory and beauty. Look at verse three. So you shall speak to all who are gifted artisans whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him that he may minister to me as priest. Okay. So who's an artisan? He's a skilled workman. Okay. And when you say a skilled workman, you're saying like somebody who is skilled in maybe carvings, somebody who's skilled in making jewelry. Okay. Somebody who's skilled in stonework, carpentry. They make beautiful things out of these natural materials. Okay. So an artisan, maybe they're, they can paint, maybe they can make, you know, pottery and all that. So an artisan. I forgot saying. So you shall speak to all who are gifted artisans. Okay. Who are there. Who are there at that time. He says, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him that he may minister to me as priest. Okay. So just hold that. Just go to chapter 31 and verses two to five. Okay. Chapter 31. Let me just read from verse one. Then the Lord spoke to Moses saying, see, I have called by name Bezalel, the son of Yuri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah. And I have filled him with the spirit of God in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship to design artistic works to work in gold, in silver, in bronze, in cutting jewels for setting, in carving wood, and to work in all manner of workmanship. Okay. All manner of workmanship. What is all this? You know, artistic work, working with gold, working with silver, working with bronze, and carving, carving wood, cutting jewels for setting it in all these things. And then he says, I have filled him with the spirit of wisdom, spirit of God, sorry, in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge. So who has filled?  Of course, it's for the tabernacle. But the fact is that we understand that God can actually fill someone, empower someone, and gift someone in these areas. Right? So anybody does painting, carvings, jewelry, who's that? You look at him. You paint, is it? Okay. So the thing is that, you know, designing everything, God is interested. Right? God is interested. And he can actually fill or even enhance those natural abilities even further, and give those abilities to, you know, do these design works. Right? I remember there was this, this, okay. So there was this mother and whom we knew, and then the daughter actually, she joined this National Institute of Design in ID, some of the premier institutes, right, for design in India. So she joined that institute and she was, you know, learning art and design work. And there in that company, they had, I mean, in that institute, they had a company which is Titan. All of you know Titan, right? Watches and, you know, in fact, Titan, when they started, they really changed the way watches were, watches were many functional. You know, those days we had HMT, anybody knows? HMT watch. Okay? HMT watches. Well, good watches. Very good. But design-wise, very simple, rather simple, right? So Titan, when Titan came in, Titan, you know, the Tata company, the design, the watch section, so when Titan came in, they really changed that, right? The watches suddenly became fashionable to wear watches, right?  So Titan wanted to wanted these students who had designed students to come up with a design for their watch. Okay?  So that was, you know, another thing. So, so as soon as the mother, you know, she heard about this, she was very excited. Okay? So she went to the, because she had read this.  So you give her that thing. So she started praying that each and every day. And, and Lord, you know, this is what happened. So her design got selected and above, you know, more than all the other students and some of their students were really good, you know, some of the best in the country actually, you know, get trained in national institute of design. But this is what she prayed. She said, my daughter, you know, you said God's Spirit of God, you can do it. So, you know, let my daughter be filled with God and that's what happened. Right. So, so Kevin, if you're painting, she said, Lord, give me those prophetic, you know, art, you know, what, what is in your heart that you want me to represent depict in this painting? Okay. What is it that you want to show forth? You know, just as an aside, you know, art can be very, very powerful. You know, the painting can be very, very powerful. We've read testimonies and prophetic art, you know, where God inspires and God speaks and God gives you what and tells you what you need to put on that canvas and you go ahead and do it and that can be a message by itself for someone who is watching it. Okay. And there was this very interesting testimony of this person who came to that particular church and that church where they have a time of, you know, painting as the worship is going on, they will paint. Okay. So this person was painting and she had this, you know, she was asking God, what should I paint? And then she had this thing to paint a particular bird. I forget what bird, but that bird, and she said that, you know, she's terrible at painting it. She cannot paint that. But she, anyway, she went ahead, God, since you're asking me to do it, I'll go ahead, I'll paint, I'll do it. Okay. So she's there and since she's painting and in that church came this lady, she saw this artwork and she just burst into tears. Okay. And after church came and met her, after the service came and met her and said, you know, why did you paint that? So she said, no, the Lord asked me to paint. And so she said, no, you know, me and my brother, he's no more. But we started, we wanted to start a company. We wanted to get into, you know, this particular area of media and making films and all that. And we wanted to get into that. And God, we had this vision.  And so, but suddenly he passed away and I was so disappointed and I was so filled with regret and all that. And I just thought, you know, I just shelved that dream. I didn't go ahead with this. It was supposed to be a media ministry kind of thing, but I didn't go forward with it. I just, I grew bitter, angry with God. I didn't understand why this would happen. So, and after all those years, today I came to church. Yeah, I said, okay, let me, let me just come to church. And I came here and I saw this and I believe that the Goddess, you know, touched me.  He's brought me closer and I feel all these burdens lifting off. I don't feel angry anymore. I don't feel bitter anymore.  So, he drops this thought into this artist and says, okay, do this. If she said, okay, God, you know, let me paint something here. Let me paint horse. I'm good at painting horses, but maybe not this bird. I mean, I missed it completely. But then she painted this and it was prophetic because it came from the heart of God who knew the needs of people who would be coming that day. She painted it. And there was this person who came closer to God who received the healing in her heart after all those years because of that artwork. Okay. Wow. So, God is a God who gives those creativity, you know, answers and strengthens our creativity for the Spirit of God. Okay. So, we see this in Exodus 31 and 35 also talks about the same thing, right? 35 and I think it's 31. Okay, let's, yeah. And he has filled in with the Spirit of God in wisdom and understanding and knowledge in all manner of workmanship. Okay. So, that, you know, really, okay, NIFT alumni. Okay, Krisha. So, you know this? Oh, you're an NIFT alumni? Okay. Oh, wonderful. So, yeah. So, it's NIFT, not NID, I guess. Okay. Wonderful. So, anyway, so this is something that you can, you know, you can really stand strong in and say, God, you know, you did this, you fill me and show me what I need to do and how my, you know, the work of my hands can be redemptive in your hands and how it can reach out and all that, yeah. So, all the best. Have a great adventure. Okay. Right, so we see this, okay? Exodus. Let's move on. Numbers 11. Okay. We may not go into each and every verse, you know, but I'd like to encourage you to, you know, go to those scripture portions and read through. Okay. Let's read Numbers 11 and we are reading from 17, right? So, this is something that happened in, again, in the time of Moses, along with the children of Israel. Okay. So, the Lord said to Moses, gather to me 70 men of the elders of Israel, whom you know to be the elders of the people and officers over them. Bring them to the tabernacle of meeting that they may stand there with you. Okay. So, there are these, see, just before that, if you see, if you read verse, sorry, chapter 11, you see that Moses having a tough time with the people. Okay. Why? People are complaining. It's not just one or two. It's not like a classroom of 20, but it's many people. Right? It's like the nation of Israel. Right? And they are complaining. They are grumbling. And they are saying, you know, they're just, hey, in Egypt, we were so better, so much better. We had great food. We had fish. We had cucumber. We had melons.  They're complaining about everything.  See, they're complaining.   I can't stand this anymore. I don't want to be the leader. I don't, I can't leave these people. They're complaining. Very difficult people.  End it all. Okay. He reaches such a place. So the Lord is saying, you pick 70 elders, bring them. Okay. And they bring the elders. Then verse 17, he says, then I will come down and talk with you there. I will take up the spirit that is upon you and put the same upon them. And they shall bear the burden of the people with you that you may not bear it yourself alone. Okay. So the Lord is saying, okay, bring these elders. Now bring them here to the tent of meeting. And I will put some of what you are carrying. By the Holy Spirit. And I will take that and put it upon the elders. So what is this that he's going to do? What is the Holy Spirit doing here? He says, I'll take some of the spirit that is upon you and put it upon the elders, all the 70 elders. So why is he doing that? It's there in the verse, but he's doing that. Yeah. So what does that mean? Yes. Yeah. So he says, so that you don't have to bear the burden anymore. They will also carry the burden. So this burden of leadership, this weight of leadership, this whole huge responsibility of leadership. Now one man has been bearing it. There's a lot of saying, it'll be upon these others also. They will be the leaders. They will talk to the people. They will bear some of that load. So you don't have to bear it alone. Okay. So this is a very important lesson here that we see in verse 17. Okay. Let's, you know, 18 onwards it talks about how that happens, right? Moses goes verse 24, he told the people the words of the Lord. He gathered the 70 and placed them around the tabernacle. Verse 25, then the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke to them and took off the Spirit that was upon him and placed the same upon the 70 elders. And it happened when the Spirit rested upon them that they prophesied, although they never did so again. Okay. And it talks about how two of them who did not come, they also were prophesying, right? And they're saying, Lord, should we ask them to stop? In fact, it's Joshua. He's saying, Lord, stop. You know, Moses, my Lord, forbid them, stop them. They didn't come to the tent. They are in their own tents and they are prophesying. Then Moses says, verse 29, oh, that all the Lord's people were prophets and that the Lord would put His Spirit upon them. So that was Moses' heart saying that the Lord, that all of the Lord's people, that they would have an encounter, that they would be filled with the Spirit and they would prophesy. So the thing is this, the Holy Spirit can take care of leadership, the importance, the weight of leadership. Okay. How many of you have had, like, if you've led the team, maybe have time, how many of you have led the team, maybe you were a team leader, maybe in where you were studying or anyone, okay? So I see, okay, somebody here, okay, some hands going up. Okay. So, so is it easy? Okay, Nina is saying yes. Yes. So is it easy or difficult? What do you think? Why is it difficult? Because everyone has their own opinion. Okay. Because it's people, right? It's people and no two people are alike. They have their own likes, dislikes.  It depends on, you know, how the team is, if the team is well of one, united, one heart, one mind, one vision, then it's so much easier, right? We're saying, okay, hey, we're going. This is the direction we are going. Everybody's agreed. Fine, let's go. But everybody's saying, no, why should we go there? You know, why can't we go like this? Why can't we turn around? Why today? No, why should we go there today? Right? Then you have differing opinions and differing, you know, things. And then people are saying, so all this, you know, this unity and there could be conflicts, right? You know, there could be just two people fighting over some silly thing, something which is so insignificant and it becomes a big thing. They're not talking to each other and then there's division, etc. So, you know, you know, the whole weight of leadership, even for a small team, you know that it's not easy. So you can imagine, right? Big responsibilities, you know, maybe, well, maybe in the days ahead, God would use you to be or promote you to positions of leadership, right? It could be the company, it could be in an organization, it could be church, it could be ministry. Well, the Lord is saying that I would empower you, right? Not only that, I would raise up others and I would empower them as well, okay? The way he did for Moses. So, who does it? The Holy Spirit does it, right? So you see, well, you see, you saw creation, you saw artistic work, you see leadership in all these ways. Interpretation of dreams, you know, strategy for the nation. The Holy Spirit is involved in it, right? So that, well, definitely expands our understanding, okay? Yeah, I'm just reading the comments here, fine. Okay, let's look at one more, okay? Numbers 27, right? Let's go to Numbers 27 and verse 18, okay? This is the Lord's instruction to Moses. Now, he's talking about succession in leadership, okay? So Moses is going to pass away and after him, there needs to be a leader to leave the nation. So it's about this, right? So we see 27 and verse 18, the Lord said to Moses, take Joshua, the son of none with you, a man in whom is the spirit and lay your hand on him. Set him before Elijah the priest and before all the congregation and inaugurate him in their sight. And you shall give some of your authority to him and that all the congregation of the children of Israel may be obedient. He shall stand before Elias the priest who shall inquire before the Lord for him by the judgment of the Eurim. At his word, they shall go out and at his word, they shall come and he and all the children of Israel with him, all the congregation. So Moses did, as the Lord commanded him, he took Joshua and set him before Elias the priest and before all the congregation and he laid hands on him and inaugurated him just as the Lord commanded by the hand of Moses. So we see this happening and also if you would turn to Deuteronomy chapter 34 and verse 9, Deuteronomy chapter 34 and verse 9, this is what we see, right? Now Joshua, the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom for Moses had laid his hands on him so the children of Israel heeded him and did as the Lord had commanded Moses. So we see even in succession of leadership God knows and God plans and God instructs and God empowers the next line of leaders as well. So we see all this done by the Holy Spirit. So we'll take a break and then we'll come back in 10 minutes. We'll take a break right now.


Ficus natalensis is a multi-purpose tree highly suitable for agroforestry. It provides shade and revitalizes soil productivity, produces fodder and firewood alongside an assortment of prized timber products. Ficus natalensis is a very special tree in Buganda region. Its bark is used to produce a special draping material, the back clone, used in various traditional functions and burial ceremonies. When the king chose a chief, he would plant a Ficus tree for him. The tree signified ownership and marked the boundaries of land. This power was a preserve of men, meaning a woman could not plant Ficus because the very act symbolized power and leadership. This is the first time I have seen a tree with a strong image of it. The first time I saw a tree with a strong image of it, I was very surprised. This is the first time I saw a tree with a strong image of it. I was surprised when I saw it. But following the ACM sensitization meetings organized by CIFO and OPWAI, 50 of the 99 women group members have planted Ficus. Five of them have even been able to sell the backcloth and benefit economically. Although the custom still prohibits the women from producing the backcloth, planting and owning the tree is a step in the right direction. The writing is now engraved in stone that ACM is the way to go. It builds a safe space for the vulnerable groups, in this case women, to participate in all the decision-making processes so that they can negotiate for an equal share of their tenure rights to trees and forest resources.


Hey I've heard recently a lot about Some violence going on in Baltimore, and I was just thinking what is the opposite of violence and that's peace a great scripture I found in Messiah chapter 15 This is a mix of verses 14 15 and 16 says And these are they who have published peace and have brought good tidings of good in a published salvation 16 and again how beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of those that still publish peace That scripture to me is it's talking about peace but also just you know the feet in the mountain that's getting out there Publishing peace and doing something just remember to spread good and peace to your fellow man because The end of the day we're all brothers and sisters here, and we need to treat each other like that. So thanks