Record on the computer. Welcome everyone to our Thursday, November 16th meeting of the supply chain and trade financing. I'm going to share the agenda into the chat right there. I'm going to really exciting, like a nice. Meaning today where some planning and then we're going to hear from a very special guest Jim Lorenzo Maggio speaking about his European Commission report so Jim Lorenzo welcome officially. Yeah. We have Jeff here we have David here and of course Tom, my name is Alicia Noel and on the agenda today. Got some upcoming events we just want to mention in two weeks. Our meeting, we will be hosting Mario Riegel of PPI coming over from Germany on leveraging ISO 20022. And that meeting is at a special time so that's going to be at 4pm Central European time, 10am Eastern, 7pm Pacific. Sorry, yes, 7am Pacific, thank you. 7am Pacific. We want to make sure that everyone is aware that it's not at our usual 12 noon Eastern 6pm CET time slot. And then in December, on December 4, there's going to be a hyperledger member summit in Tokyo. So if any of you who are in Asia, that's, that would be a good event to attend. As for our, do we have any, before we move on, do we have any announcements to make related to the CIG or hyperledger? If you already have an agenda, the ebook announcement, would you like to talk about that? Our meeting two weeks ago, we officially launched our supply chain and trade finance ebook. The official title is hyperledger in action supply chain and trade finance. So those of you who are interested can go to the agenda from that meeting. And you'll see us discussing each of the profiles in it. It's a great resource because not only does it have information about how supply chain and trade finance are leveraging blockchain, but we have one page profiles on seven different platforms, seven different solutions that are live being used daily by international companies to manage their supply chains and to manage trade finance. So that's really useful. We also have a section where we highlight additional projects that didn't meet the requirements to get a full page full page profile, but we did think we're worth highlighting. And also on the ebook we just learned recently that hyperledger is going to be translating that ebook into both Japanese and Chinese so that's going to help us reach an even wider audience. Very excited about that. And hyperledger is starting to promote that. So hyperledger is going to be much more publicity. Yes, hyperledger channels here over the next two, three weeks. So we'll be in the hyperledger newsletter that you get regularly. There'll be some announcements pushed out so look for that also so multiple places and one one last I guess one thing I'll add to that Alicia is that the we talked about this last time. We're viewing this ebook out, but we're viewing this ebook as a updateable document that will be able to either bring in additional case studies, as we learn about them or the ones that as they progress along and have additional information additional successes would bring bring them along because there's, there's been a lot of waving hands about how great blockchain solutions are out there. And so we spent a lot of time making sure that we had boxing solutions in this ebook that are real real real ones that are actually providing value business value for organizations there. I mean, one of the as you were viewing so many different profiles. A lot of people were suggesting ones where we weren't able to find publicly available information on what the benefits were on savings other efficiencies. And that was one thing we really wanted we we stress so that was important to us for companies that got them a page profile. What's the governance around the ebook right now so we download and give it to somebody can we just reference somebody at BP. That's what I was up to and I said, I like to see that so we get it's just. It's publicly available. It's out there. Okay, okay. Yeah, I mean, we've put it up on LinkedIn as well I shared at the discord trust your supplier has also shared it over their LinkedIn. Okay. Yeah, and I asked, I asked Andrea to to boost the trust your supplier. Post about it as well. Okay. Yeah. That's the White House. Excellent. I don't know why. White House. That's right. I actually did. I sent an email. When the White House website came up back. This is a story of the 90s and when was president. I thought what the hell I'll send a note out there so I had just been in Washington DC and made a comment about how they blocked the roads off around the White House for the security. I still have it. He wrote me a letter back. I hit some nerve. Oh my goodness. Now he may not have written it, but he signed it and it's an actual signature and there's not initials behind it, which means they signed it for him. I still haven't came to speak to me an envelope. It was so new, I think they got something here. Oh, that's probably I hit a nerve for some reason. I got a comment that I'm on how well the economy is doing back then. And then I did a comment about this blocking off around the backside of the White House is kind of confusing.  And so my kid used to take it to school to show people a letter from board of court. Oh, that's so funny. typed. I would expect it was. Have you framed it? No, no, I got an envelope. I'd say a light greenish envelope. It came in White House stamped on the front. And then something to know about that kind of stuff said he obviously somebody obviously saw it in his staff, thought it was important to address. But I wrote it up, gave it to him. He looked it over. And then he changed it and signed it. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds about right. If you see a signature and then a little slash initials that would be somebody signed it as made for him. No initials. So, no, that was. You know, you knew what was, you knew that this was an important issue. Well done, Jeff. Well, the funniest thing I saw when some work with the government. The royal company was, I sent an electronic. Especially email. It was sent back through written postage. It's that reclined an email. That's what I thought was so funny. Yeah. Anyways, also. Yes. And I'd be curious to see if you, what your responses. So those are your interesting. Yeah, it's up on our LinkedIn. It's up on the wiki from last week and you're going to be getting an email from hyper ledger for those of you who subscribe there. So next. Is it underneath under it? No, if there's a LinkedIn specifically for the hyper ledger supply chain and trade financing. And he usually tags all of us when he posts links. I'm pretty sure he did for that. And then next step. Just let you know, I'm going to post it underneath. There's a supply chain. LinkedIn group underneath this company that has a lot of action underneath it. Great. Great. Yeah, I posted it to one or two supply chain groups on LinkedIn as well. And I posted the discord. I posted it to a couple of we chat groups. Jen Lawrence. Jen Lawrence. I posted the link to the chat. Thank you. And. Okay. Yeah. It's easy for everybody. And then next up, we're in mid November of 2023. So it's time for us to really start talking about what we want to do next year. What's our 2024 planning. This could be speakers. This could be projects. How do people want to get involved? So we have one or two speakers who had to postpone the presentations from this year that are on our list to getting back in touch with in December and January to see when they can speak next year. But we'd love to hear from everybody. Who you'd like to see coming into present. And also we finished the e-book. So yes, we will be taking submissions of additional platforms to add in, but that's probably not, probably not going to do another, do a major edit for another nine months to a year. So what do we want to focus on for the beginning of 2024. David, you've been coming for a few months now. I'm glad to see you coming back. Are there any projects that you think would add value to the community and that you might be interested in being part of? I'm trying to think about it, but some interesting projects have been, I've been seeing how we can build and just trying to extend. I think we had a discussion with the guys from, the guys who are talking about standardizing blockchain and creating both standards and making them available. Standards that we can build on for, for trying to, I would say, standardize supply chain technologies that are being built on the blockchain. It was a very interesting call. We could extend something like that. Okay. Project, yeah. So how about introducing it into trade and revenue for systems that are having, let me say, communities and, for instance, we have the employers and all those, all the companies come together and they achieve, they're allowed by a lot of trade or something. So how about we use, we build something that can compass something like that. I think to be a very, very nice adoption to kind of ease trade. And also we can try to economic growth as well. But it is something that should be on top of trade on top of supply chain and something I've been thinking about. Systems focused on revenue and economic growth. Yeah. Are there any systems you've seen already that you think hit sweet spots around that? Currently, I've not seen any. That's why I've not seen any, maybe they are there and people are just to building them or something, but that's kind of what, what this brings, the value that this brings. So a number of players will come in. These are the countries and they are, they are rights officials and then they will be able to track and monitor how the trade, how the trade, how bilateral trade and maybe international trade is going on. It allows exchange of documents and also taxes can be, can be levied in time and the right amount according to the standards are great. It's kind of, I'm not, I'm not a product manager, but that's how we get into. Yeah. Yeah.  One of the platforms that we included in the e-book that we just had a blurb about was B Connect out of Brazil. That's working with the Mercersor countries for cross-border trade and that's one of the companies we have on our radar to ask them to come in next year and present on the work they're doing. That's amazing. Yeah. The standards piece, because you mentioned standards at the beginning, the presentation in two weeks with David, sorry, with Mario Reichel, he'll be talking about leveraging ISO 20022 and that's the standard for, that's a standard around cross-border payments. So the full title of this presentation is leveraging ISO 20022 to optimize supply chain and trade finance management platforms, harmonized ISO 20022 for cross-border payments, a data model also for blockchain solutions and logistics. So that, I think that's something you're going to be, that will be interesting for you. Yeah. David, this is Tom, a quick question for you. Are you thinking in terms of monitoring international trade, are you thinking about monitoring at a company level or are you thinking monitoring at a governmental level or are you thinking both? So this can be rolled out. I think adopting governments can take a while, but that will be the right point to plug into this because when you have the government signing up on to this, then the companies will also naturally jump on. So, based on looking at it from a government and more, I don't say political sense, but more administrative sense and extending it downward. Yeah. So you're saying basically, hey, government jumps on it then companies will kind of come along. It's almost a little regulatory thing. Estonia has adopted blockchain for a lot of things, digital identity, a lot of business issues. They've made themselves a huge hub. I'm not sure if they're using something blockchain backed to manage their exports and imports though. That's a good question. I haven't heard anything really on Estonia recently and what they're up to. Yeah. Maybe worth investigating. We could even ask how much they're using hyper ledger as opposed to something else. I did see something this morning about JPM coin and how it's actually now being used effectively. It's actually based on private Ethereum. So basically it would be the linkage there, but they actually got people doing settlements using that blockchain now. So, yeah. So it's similar to the, I think UAE trade connect and probably the mercury sir, the B connect. Right. I can't remember. So that was JP Morgan point when we got out of that and it's sold to somebody who, you know, Tom, who runs it. I was looking at it. Coin still exists. So that's, that's a JP Morgan. They had. They had their own version of Ethereum called quorum that they sold. They saw the consensus because they didn't want to be. Building the building blocks and then the enterprise Ethereum alliance. Right. Kind of took over the overall, Hey, here's, here's, here's how we're going to do private theory, which is similar to, you know, what you can do with fabric, right. Hyper ledger products. So they saw what we've seen with hyper ledger, the ability within an enterprise to have a system. That can make it much more powerful and much more adoptable. Right. Yeah, I could figure out what they were doing with it because it's almost like they didn't understand what they were doing. It's kind of like a Facebook was calling me. I don't think they understood the points of four. Yeah. It comes down to it. They're, they're used to run block chains. They're the gas behind it. Fundamentally, that's what they are. We're going to see a block chain and the rewards. And if they have a private blockchain on fabric, they're going to be able to do that. So, yeah, Yeah. Well, the article. Yeah. Maybe David and Alicia, I'll let you go a little bit. I'll try to find the article here and all this place into the chat. That's interesting. Yeah. That'd be great. Thank you. It came in the new, it came in the fortune newsletter this morning. Here. It's easy to be affordable to everybody. So I'll put it in the chat. Okay. Thank you. I mean, we can also forward things over the list of emails so that people who aren't here in real time, but do watch it with a video, do watch it on YouTube. Get access to it as well. Yeah. Yeah. So.  So I think moving on. Just want to say if anyone has ideas on potential speakers, but projects. And wants to get more involved, please come to a meeting person and or send us an email. And we can, we can talk about different ways for people to get involved. And. Yes, I. Since our budgets are limited. When you think about it. Budget. So I've been trying to think on what things like a really different people. I don't know. I don't know. I'm going to say for. I don't know something like that. I was going to come up with six. What's the, what's the. What's the flavor of projects that we're looking for is it. Presentations is it. The book was really great. What if it was anything deeper that. You know, I was always wondering how supply chain. Supply chain software. The specific fabric fits into systems and companies like. Their ancient SDP systems. Or trading desks where you've got. Unability, which is big. Which you really think that our voting. But none of my on that. But we're trading desks that sit there and page. We've got lots of other stuff. In the past. But we're taking the information. Hopefully that's been information in the homes in places. It's blown out during their transportation. I'm not. I worked with trade for five years. On the phone. Trading logistics. I'm not expert on it, but I do know that they send it for opportunities. Traders and look for opportunities. When it says play. I'm going to start with one section. I think traders make a lot of things smooth in our world. The tanker gets stuck on the ocean, the refineries waiting for them, they have an against these shortage in the Chicago and New York area. They swap fuels and everything stuff in right away to take care of that for a profit. They hedge stuff and so that's all supply chain stuff. But our traders out there using blockchain, say with the IoT data, new internal data, mutable data, which is really key because when you're a trader, all your stuff is tracked. Things you say on the phone, things that you type on a monitor, a screen. That stuff is T. When you say trader, it sounds like you're specifically meaning investment trading. I'm a week trader or commodities trader and I'm sitting there and how do you make money, Jeff? Well, I look out for opportunities about climate and for what's going on in the supply chain role, what's the harvest looking like? There are the silos in the farm area plugged up for some reason because they can't. This is wrong with the railroads and this kind of stuff happens. So my silos, my farm co-op are filled. And so that affects prices and they sit in the middle of this thing and they figure out ways to smooth that out. And I'll give you this and I'll take care of this for you. I'll take care of this for you in the hedges of prices and then make lots of money out of it. To give you an example, when I was at BP in COVID, they were paying people to take crude oil. Remember that? Pardon? They were paying people to take crude oil. And so you're buying it. They were paying people because the tanks were being filled, probably shut everything down. And the supply was just pouring in. And so BP had an empty tanker that had loaded out in the Gulf, Mexico. And so they were paid $100 million to take crude off people's hands.  The traders did that. It was all about supply chain. They knew where things were at the right time. Right. I mean, is there any interest in digging into stuff like that to see how supply chain software can be or is being used in trade desks? More detailed. Is there any interesting right now? But it's more than the, it's a little bit deeper than the ego. Right. It's a lot deeper. Yeah, business-wise and technically. Right. It says I have a lot of time. So much time on my hands. I'm trying to think about stuff to do in 24. Really dig my teeth into. Yeah. That's interesting from a finance perspective. I'm. I think there are projects that are using hyper ledger for that. I think it's worthwhile to have them come speak and to document them. Put them in. We have people and if that's not, you know, it's, it's, if that's not out there today, who takes that information and goes to those, goes to trading companies. And you can do that. I think that's the key. Because somebody at some point brought that stuff to those companies and say, here's what you can do with hyper, the fabric and supply chain. We adopted it. Right. It does that. It's who investigates to see what use cases. Different. Things out there are equitable. Somebody does that. Yeah, some of the consulting firms do. I bet some of the insurance firms do. I'm sure the insurance firms right now are doing a lot with AI. I know they've been doing a lot in prior years with remote sense and data with data coming from satellites, especially around weather, weather events, drought. Tracking ships. Both for. Tracking how commodities are moving, but even. Remote sensing data has been leveraged. For tracking human trafficking. It's already interesting. There's something again, these are things that I tend a lot of these things. That's a lot of stuff is used case, but it's also. Here's what our software can do. So. Can. I wonder if supply chain using fabric and AI be about the band just as hard to think this would work because enough of the solution is out there, but it's all slides aren't interested in spending time digging down into stuff that our group presents as. I'm not saying experts, but information around those topics. Words. This could be. Let's go now with supply chain and AI anything. I think that's one of the most important questions actually I've seen. We have. Documents of our presentations and we can do the show what can be done. Not what's being done, but what can be done. I know corporations are really struggling with AI because they're forced to invest in it. I want to do it. I think, I think there's still a lot of issues around some of the AI platforms, accuracy of data. Accuracy, there's, and there's a monster sitting out there. There's a monster on AI that will be plots about rights that have to be addressed. AI that the amount of computing power that is required to run AI is immense. I mean, it's immense. And the greenhouse gas emissions and so forth. The vectorized data. That's really AI. Data to do that work. I heard stuff like everyone uses enough power to. The same amount of power that 100,000 homes is a whole year. There's not enough energy. Massive adoption. Yes. That brings up something interesting. I remember a couple of years ago, some governments were banning token mining because of the energy. I wonder at what point we're going to see governments banning, hosting AI servers. Yeah. Also because of the power use. Yeah, I think. The way, the way some countries are doing it now is the transitioning into. Large solar, solar farm. So it's in Kenya. They, they open the large, they, they open the large mining farm and it's, it's basically powered by solar, which is natural energy. I've also seen a lot of risk in the time as well. In that. Like, like Jeff say, it's really immense. The computing power you need. So how, how, how can, how is, how reliable is it? Is there going to be the, the dominance factor that you see? Because of those costs? I see a lot of, a lot of cloud providers right now. The ones providing computing power for that. But isn't the cost being driven there as well? Well, Google was on TV saying they're a real pickle because they've got an AI. They've got a good AI. And for the same time, they have a net zero commitment of 2050. And as they push AI, they're going in the wrong directions. Yeah. It's, it's, because I know, you know, in the US, I think the windmill consortium have said if they don't get $4.8 billion government subsidies then our windmill infrastructure in the United States is going to shut off. How much of our power comes from windmills in the US? It's tiny, but again, it's, it loses lots of money. And they're finding out that some of the, not that they've been running a lot of the parts are reliable. There's a lot more names than they thought. Yeah.  You guys off topic, but um, I think I'm always interested in researching stuff that we can see what we can do.  Climate accounting sake doesn't have a solution. They sit and say adopters they have. How fast can be used to. The carbon economy, the different phases of carbon economy. And so I went on to do a comparative study of offers that are out there. And so I did it out of the blue. So I did that kind of stuff, but the climate accounting stick does a lot of stuff where. Here's our software fabric and all the different projects around it. Here's how we can use this for climate economy. We want to do some of that stuff in supply chain. I think this is something we're going to have to continue the discussion next meeting. Being mindful of time. It's 35 after the hour 36 after the hour and we had asked Jean Lorenzo is here to present right. So let's continue the discussion probably not next meeting, but in January. Make sense. I think we're going to be meeting some of the ideas around this. And might be worth sending some of that out over the listserv email so that people who aren't at the meeting and don't watch it know that the discussion is being had. And other people can chime in. Thank you. That said, Jean Lorenzo. Thank you so much for joining us today. For those of you who haven't yet looked at the profile Jean Lorenzo Medio is a PhD fellow at the European training network for industrial digit digital transformation across innovation ecosystems. I think it's kind of Einstein. And he's great. Thank you. We're going to be discussing report you're preparing for the European Commission so Jean Lorenzo I'm going to hand this over to you. Thank you for my pleasure being here and thanks for giving me the time to present I'm going to pull up the PowerPoint so hopefully you can see the screen full screen, right. Yes, we can see it. Perfect. So. So, yeah, just gonna start by briefly presenting the project on myself and then I'm going to quickly move to the report which is the main content and the while so I'm presented it today here. So I'm, I'm PhD fellow this. Well, first that's all seniority so I'm based in Denmark, but at the same time I have this affiliation with UC Berkeley which is why also I get to know people from hyper ledger. So I met Daniela and then Tomash just online but still, we had to speak to speak a couple of times. And I'm part of this European project called Einstein. So perfect pronunciation. It wasn't easy. It's very long. And I'm based in Denmark, as I was telling you before but there are 15 PhD students across the world studying different kind of perspectives on industrial transformation. And I'm mainly focusing on blockchain. Why because I actually started collaborating with the hyper ledger foundation which is one of the partners of this project. So this is like the background in terms of of the project and myself and feel free to like stop me or if you have any questions just to to let me know when I will stop talking. Yeah, just real fast on the previous chart. I didn't see Moby on there. Is there, have you talked with Moby or are you going to talk about that in a little bit later. Yeah, actually, I haven't in, let's say in the pipeline to some extent. So I was thinking to speak with them. But that's great. And I also actually I didn't mention it before but first I watched the recording of last session. And I think this kind of reports could be a nice extension and deep dive in terms of focusing on the batteries and supply chain implementation for blockchain. Good. Yeah, because we had Moby on early this year talking the early list, maybe last year about digital battery passports and their standards there. So no said, I'll let you continue. That's great. No, thanks for mentioning actually I saw that they spoke a couple of times. So one should be this year and previous one last year. But I never actually had the chance to get in contact with them. So, again, we'll get back to it in a few slides anyway. Yeah, okay. So current research, I started focusing on blockchain voting in the US election. So there is especially one startup that has been using hyper ledger and building a platform on the ledger for us elections they've been quite successful. And then they started also working outside the US, the same time up with with Einstein so with the project. We run this blockchain webinar, a few months ago, and there was involving Daniela, Marin Yovanovich, who was professor at Copenhagen Business School and also died from from circular. So, since I wanted to focus more on the, let's say the success cases, and what could be a good implementation case a good story for reports with Daniela in April back in April we started to think about well perhaps we could do something on supply chain. And why because there is this deadline for for the project. So for the Einstein project to develop a report by January 2024. And this should be a, this should, let's say, present a framework on how to manage emerging technologies to make it easier. And so, there was this, this webinar as well, and that we run in June. And then again, when I spoke with with Daniela and Tomasz, well, they told me the, the, the supply chain trade finance interest group has been finalizing has been working and finalizing an ebook. So perhaps there is there is room for some synergies here. And that's why I also reach out to you guys. So, very briefly, the focus would be on implementations in for digital passports, or anyway for blockchain implementations to track and trace EV batteries and the materials that are used. Why, because of course there are some challenges, and also some new regulations that are coming up, and especially you set officially set one in in June, if I'm correct, if I recall correctly this year. So, again, if you have any questions so far, let me know. Otherwise, I will just go on. And I was thinking to, to structure the reports around free cases. So I already mentioned circular already seen that you also included it in the additional projects for in the ebook. And same goes for mobile, if I recall correctly. I seen that you excluded ever ledger. As far as I know, and that's also what Daniela told me. Ever ledger is still actually going on. So there was a subsidiary that had financial issues. Shia Lian, who's the CEO of ever ledger also published a blog post on hyper ledger website in September. So, it should still be a good at good case anyway to learn from again. Why, because I think what the ebook tells us is what has been working. So, what has been the benefits that this kind of cases shows. The same time, I think that what the report could complement is a perspective on what are the challenges anyway to scale it for example, but anyway, in the implementation in and high volumes of these kind of solutions. So this is like the take that I would like to give to the reports. And maybe she learns as you're speaking. We included circular as you notice mobius in there also. One of the things that we've, we struggled with is getting numeric benefit from circular solutions. So dollars and cents euros and cents right in some way shape or form. I mean, yeah, there's 10,000 users or, you know, we have 5,000 skews that we're tracking or something like that. And those are, those are good. But what's been challenging though is, hey, by using circular aka also, you know, blockchain underneath the covers, we've been able to save X number of dollars or we've been able to increase revenue because now we do it so easily. The customer believes in it and says, okay, now I understand how you as an organization are actually doing that work. Right. And so I trust it more and so now I'm going to buy more from you as opposed to somebody else. So we have not gotten that kind of information from circular. Jeff, you're probably smiling because you did a lot of work trying to figure that out and couldn't figure it out. Well, there's a couple of problems with the main one was when you're doing ESG and you come back and say, you know, sourcing as possible sourcing and then they come back and say now we're doing this possible sourcing right using child slave labor and all we can track to make sure they're not doing that. And you come back, well, what's the benefit you must have been using say there before, right? I'm going to admit that, you know, we couldn't track it before and that was going on. Now we can track it, make sure that it's not going on. But how do you go back and say, we do slightly like 50%. And so the thing that you pressed on Tom, though, is there's no, in my mind, what I've seen, there's no doubt that there are some of these folks that were using this technology to say we can really track this and so that you know, there's supplying, but also that materials we have, we have confirmation that we're not using environmentally sound and so it was in that nature and so we're getting a customer from somebody else that can't. Yeah, it's hard to get that maybe it's too early. Yeah, it may. But Jim Lawrence, I just wanted to bring up that point that I mean, we want these things to be real solid. There's plenty of hand waving and using blockchain, plenty of hand waving. And the more solid we can make it and that was one of our very key aspects of how we chose who was going to be in here who wasn't going to be in here. So we'll leave it at that and let you continue here. I just do want to add one comment on Everled jury. Yes. Thank you for bringing up the financial issue that there was the bankruptcy. We didn't see anything from third party talking about new clients or anything like that. So it was hard to see if the company's continuing operation is that true. Are they truly an ongoing company or is this just something that they're that they're saying in order to continue waving their hands saying we're here. And we didn't want to include anything that we weren't confident about. And when you do invite them to come and speak in January, February. Yeah, I mean I did try reaching out to them a few years ago. When I was working on something and couldn't even get an email response. So, yeah, so I'll be interested in seeing what you're able to bring bring to the conversation about them and what they're offering you. And just to clarify, these are examples. So I mentioned Everled jury and Silk Road because I had the chance to speak with both of them once. So I had like a call with them with Doug and young some few months ago. But again, might be that other cases are, are, let's say more fitting or more ready, whatever. So just that, as I already had some contacts, I thought that these ones are the ones that I could actually go go for. And in case if something didn't go well in one of these cases, learn from it. So, if, if something didn't go well, why. Again, in this view of like also understanding what are the challenges that compiles. Are you really focused on hyper ledger platforms or are you also looking at non hyper ledger platforms for this. No, I would like to focus on hyper ledger because because of this partnership with projects. Okay, very good. That makes sense. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. So, again, thanks for the, for the feedback on this. And I think that makes sense. The kind of rational drivers that you that follows the book. Just to give you a, an overview of the structure that we had in mind. What's what could be the first few sections are in the technical and business review on blockchain and blockchain and ecosystems platforms. The first one I already done it. Second one is something that I'm going to do. There is this kind of focus on on the case studies. And, and finally on the framework so as you may see it's like, it should be like some, some brief reports and nothing, nothing too long. Here an example that's the type that I share here, just in terms of like the cover. This one was on the key ecosystem legendage legitimization attributes, and there were a few people collaborating. How to, how to, let's say put it in in practice and in terms of timeline. The first things the main priority would be to have this kind of desk research, or perhaps also scheduling an interview with, for example, someone from circular and and have a ledger and movie as well. If possible, within, let's say mid December early December, and in the meantime start writing something about the cases based on what's online. And, and then finalizing the, the, this framework that I was talking to you before about and, and this would be the deadline would be 10th of January in terms of the first full draft should be shared. With the consortium and the consortium means all the industrial partners that I showed you before, plus the, the universities. In the meantime, again, it's not just me there are other people involved and our people from this working package. For example, here are people from the other working package, we have other five to six people, mainly professors and PhD students involved in my working package. And so we can get some some feedback from from them as well. So, bottom line. Last, last question last slide. As you may, oops, as you may be actually more expert than me so I'm a researcher I started focusing on blockchain and and studying this this case is one year ago. You may have contacts or data about, for example, these cases or other cases in, in this, in this area, or might you be, or you may even be willing to contribute writing wise, what does it mean, for example, writing a few pages on on on circular on what they've been doing and perhaps helping me in in contacting the interview, which I think could be just one which if one with each of them. Again, the main focus of the of the of the interview might be some numerical benefits. But might be even more actually what are the challenges that are facing in in implementing and scaling this this solutions. So, if you have any other feedbacks or if you're interested in contributing, just let me know and in case of course this would be reflected in the auto ship of the of the reports. I just want to make the suggestion if you go to our wiki on the left hand side of the page there was something the ebook. It was a working page on the ebook, and that includes early drafts of profiles, not just the ones that ended up in the book but a number of other ones as well. So you'll be able to see who, who wrote what. If there's anything you have questions about in our ebook, you'll be able to see from that, who was working on it so that you can reach out directly. Perfect. Yeah, a lot of them were were Tom Jeff me but also Ned Thompson wrote some Daniela wrote one. There are some other people who submitted different ideas. There's a conversation at the bottom of the page about a lot of things as well. That's a good resource. Yeah. And with the, with each of the key ones, the primary ones, let's put it that that way. Where we felt like we had numeric benefit it was a production, etc, etc. There's also a additional additional material, whether that they came and presented to the SIG, or in a couple cases there's a Harvard business review link that was done. Or, you know, we try not to do press releases, because we wanted to be a little bit more factual as opposed to, you know, hey, we have the greatest thing since sliced bread here. You know, they have their place and they're needed, definitely. I had looked at Everledger quite a bit when we started this. And somebody told me that they had gone out of business. They were their big thing they were into reducing forgery about cosmetic lines and very high end items like horses that cost those courses I guess that cost thousands of dollars. And so it was an verification system to show that this is not a forgery that was made by dollars. They were big into that night. Back in 2016 2017 they launched the chai wine vault, which was collection collectible grape wines and, and I think they've been got involved in some liquors. But for that, they, they were, they were also working with IOT devices to ensure that the bottles themselves hadn't been compromised. Yeah. Then they were working with it. Cha Tai Fook are one of the other big Hong Kong jewelry companies as well. So there have been a lot of great projects that were announced. And if it hadn't been for the announcement earlier this year about the bankruptcy. Like, I would have been like we were, it would have made a great case study but the bankruptcy caused some concern. Yeah. So I finished your company, I finished your turn around. I don't know if it's related but then they put in after circle and it's coincidence, but they're not a business. That's what I'm going to share with you and say about the wines. They attract these wines, temperature and pressure. I did find out why they, they use pressure by the way. This is what you touched on Alicia. Why, if somebody opens a wine bottle, you're changing the pressure in that wine bottle with the more the corks can open. That makes sense. That makes sense. So Jean Lorenzo, are you getting what you look for? I'd be happy to provide feedback at, you know, to a draft copy or something like that. And that could definitely be something here. And we have lots of material clearly available. I would do the same. It's all open source so you can use it. Right. That's the part why I wanted to suggest looking at that page, because you'll see a lot of things that that were shared already so that you're not reinventing the wheel. Exactly. And a couple of follow up questions. One, one concerns the suggestions that you may have concerning other cases, for example. And I was speaking about EV batteries, passports, let's call it that way, this way, because of the regulation. Even though they might not be, let's say, profitable or whatever. Someone has to help companies to to get this kind of passports because this is what regulation is going to is going to require actually is the rate requiring. So this just to explain better why why this case or why this specific deep time. But again, do you have any kind of names in mind or contacts in case. For batteries I think of Moby and trample. I mean, if you want to send me an email specifically with what you're doing, I can then send it over to Moby and ask about introducing you. So, so rather than use case topic, there's something that I've been being ahead with a little bit. I'm using the SAP model. SAP was sold on the concept of we could put this system on which make possible as well as dollars you're going to eliminate all this applications out and reduce our costs as early as anybody with that use a fabric for supply chain and so forth and does it Washington as a service or actually running a company. What happens, does it reduce the IT footprint corporations, those are being used cases because there's a lot of maintenance and a lot of manual costs supporting applications and companies are always looking to use that footprint. Full idea of the cloud the whole idea of a lot of stuff is learning out there I search hyper ledger website pages left and right to find out are there any use case examples of somebody bringing in. I should say bring it using blockchain. And also now we can cost 20 apps, but do this work. I haven't seen anything on about it. It makes sense. Those are big companies see that kind of stuff and they jump all over that stuff and SAP was sold on that concept that exists on that concept consolidation of your application never really turned out there, all the way but that's a monster that's still a monster. Why don't you why does the shift to the cloud structure reduction things like that so bring in blockchain software for supply chain. A couple of years ago, there was a GS one trial with data being exchanged between IBM food trust and ripe.io, and I think SAP their blockchain and food logic, I think was food logic from their platform which was not blockchain, showing that the data could be transferred between these different platforms. I suspect that for four companies that worry about losing market share to these newer blockchain platform, blockchain platforms, showing that they can be interoperable is important. So that they don't like this. I looked at this if you like change for the climate economy. Really, they do not have a blockchain. No, who doesn't know SAP. Oh, they're touting. They do not have a lot that we sued for using that word. Well, they're promoting out there is not they're trying to retrofit that ridiculous system of theirs into that concept. It's a joke. If you're thinking about it technically they can't put themselves out of business. Yeah. So do you any of your use case thoughts or looks in your work around displacement or rationalization of applications reducing applications when they utilize blockchain or fabric for supply chains or anything else. Again, in terms of supply chain sector, I basically just started looking into it. So I know quite a lot in terms of like voting implementations but much less on supply chain. Yeah. When I work at VP there's only just a school massive or they still is. They have supply chain software all over the place. Tons of acts. And different parts of supply chain, which is just truck truck management, rail management system system for those things. Time trying to time all the other report out of a matter of massive challenge. Maybe. Yeah. Sorry, I need to leave guys after the hour. Thank you. I'll let you continue here. And then we'll look to hear certainly willing to provide feedback for my personal self here. And thanks. So, thank you. Thank you. Okay. Bye. Yeah, we are a couple of minutes after the hour. So we do want to. Yeah. Okay. So, just want to tell that there might be actually an article written by Tomash. On a similar topic. And very last, last thing I'm sharing the, the link where there are other deliverables that might be interesting for anyone who could be interested. Online now, or from the community. And there are some examples of previous deliverables. That's it. Thank you. Yeah. Are you comfortable with my putting the link to that in the page for, for today on the wiki. Yeah, sure. Thank you. I'll share it there as well. This sounds like a really interesting project. I'm looking forward to reading it. I just want to echo Tom sentiments about I'd be happy to look at a draft and make comments. Like I said, send me an email with a brief description of what you're, what you're working on and what you're looking for. And I can forward that over to Moby and ask permission to enter you. That would be great. Thank you. I'm going to, I'm going to, some ideas that I'm going to put for 2024 things to work on or stuff that I was actually just looking at. Because of my interest as well as some of the stuff I was putting on spreadsheet. Okay, that's a good idea. I'm just going to listen. Why don't we put it on the wiki so that people can access it and so that people can can see that we are talking about and we're looking at different ideas. So you had a, when you were showing the table contents you had one about a technical overview. On that deliverables that you had listed in your agenda or started table contents on the presentation just for I think number two is technical overview. Oh yeah, yeah, that's the one that was that deep technical overview was more of a when I, you know, you invite deep in other words, the software now verifies this information the software consists in the certain memory pools. It's always a question around transaction speed on private blockchains but you get into that kind of stuff where there's no, what's the speed that it comes through on, how does it get, how does consensus work. It's always a question people always have interest in how does consensus work in a private blockchain. Since there's no, there's no gas rewards there's no partners. I briefly touched upon this. It's more like an introduction so what are the main feature. Well, first what is the definition, what are the definitions of each in the definition of blockchain, then also some a few words on consensus mechanisms on the type of blockchains. And that's it. Okay. Yeah, I, I know people work with companies who are blockchain and they come out and they see the stuff in the media and they say yeah that's so complicated. We've got these coins and we've got miners and no no no that's public. There's a private blockchain like your private software point. What is that there's confusion about and I wonder how high that goes up in companies like I'm not going to do that and see what it says there about the value of coins and they're issuing coinage and electricity usage and consensus about I'll get like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, there's two that's private public. Right. It's never discussed that. I just wonder how you touched on that. Yeah, David, David's laughing. A friend of mine at a Canadian company asked me to create a class to present to some of his clients, helping them understand the different blockchain issues and why it might be helpful to their company so I sent him a syllabus for like a two hour intro to this stuff to help the executives understand. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that said, it's eight after the hour I want to be mindful of everyone's time. Jim Lorenzo thank you so much for coming and presenting. Thank you. My pleasure. Right with that I'm gonna I'm gonna end the recording. Thank you everybody for watching.


These dedicated nurses are integral to health care in Miku. Due to innovative construction of a new Miku Wellness Center, their work has become a little easier. This construction was facilitated by the Disaster Vulnerability Reduction Project, or DVRP. DVRP has made major contributions to advances in climate resilience and in this case, health care. The Miku Wellness Center is a 4,000 square foot climate resilient modern facility. Nursing staff and patients continue to sing praises of the structure months after its opening. Well, this is my first time and I must say from the outside, you could really see it is a nice building, but then upon coming in, you can see it's a well-built and everything inside is like, whoever came up with this plan was actually really thinking of the people of Miku now. Construction of a more climate resilient health facility falls in line with the DVRP's mandate. There are four observation rooms, a dental room, nurse's station, sterilization room and a pharmacy. This is a superb facility compared to the previous one and from my understanding there would be lots of operational services which will be provided here and we are very excited about that. Prevalence of non-communicable diseases or NCDs is high in synclutia, NCDs include hypertension and diabetes, hence the facility places some focus on NCD management. This is Jacques Hingston Compton from the Disaster Vulnerability Reduction Project.


Okay, thanks for the introduction. Hi, everyone. So yeah, so this is joint work with Amit and Mark.  So IO is this notion of compiling a program P in a way that preserves its functionality, but for any program P prime, P prime, which is equivalent to it, the compilations of these two are indistinguishable from each other. Hence, indistinguishability obfuscation. So this was first proposed by Barak et al in 2001, but the first candidate didn't come until 12 years later in the work of Garg et al. So at this point, we have many, many applications of IO, and it has become a central hub of crypto, a holy grail of crypto, whatever you wanna call it. It's become a very important thing, and we have many candidates for it, but the security of these is not very well understood right now. Okay, so you just saw talk about multilinear maps. So indeed, all of the IO candidates we have rely on multilinear maps. You can think of multilinear maps at a very high level, sort of like homomorphic encryption, in the sense that you have a bunch of encoded elements, and you can do arithmetic on them. The difference is that in multilinear maps, there's no decryption. Instead, we have this thing called a zero test procedure, and you can't zero test everything. Only certain encodings that are well-formed can be zero tested. I'll say what well-formed means when it becomes important. So yeah, we have several M-map candidates. Tancred was just talking about the last of these, and in this talk, I'm gonna focus on the first of these, which was the original candidate due to Garg Gentry and Halevi. Okay, so I just mentioned the zero testing. So ideally in these multilinear map candidates, zero test should just reveal whether an encoding is zero or not, and that's it. But in practice, all of the zero test procedures actually reveal some sort of leakage. So you can visualize this as follows. You have some initial set of encodings.  Here, top-level, well-formed, it's the same thing. And then you might feed that through the zero test, and indeed, you will get out a bit that says zero or one, but you also get some leakage. And I'll say more what that leakage looks like. Okay, but let me first tell you what our results in this paper are. So we give the first polynomial time cryptanalysis of several IO candidates, and so this is a distinguishing attack, so we produce two equivalent programs and we show how to distinguish their obfuscations. And in this paper, we also have an attack on the order-revealing encryption scheme due to Bonnet at all. I'm not gonna go into those details because it's very similar to the attack on IO. Also in this paper, we propose a new security model, which for the first time actually captures all of the known polynomial time attacks on GGH 13. And I'll say more about the model at the very end. But just to give you a sense of the high level structure of the attack is very high level. So we observed that the leakage produced by the zero test can be represented or can be thought of as an explicit polynomial which is computed over the underlying multilinear map variables. So we take the obfuscation, we evaluate it on many inputs, and zero test the result and collect all the leakage. And then we find what's known as an annihilating polynomial that basically that cancels all of this leakage. So it takes all of the results of the leakage and you feed it through this annihilating polynomial and it spits out zero if you had one of the programs. And if instead the obfuscation was of the other program, then the annihilating polynomial will spit out something else. So in this way we get a distinguishing attack. Okay, so this is the outline for the rest of the talk.  And then I'm gonna give an overview of the attack. And then finally I'll talk about the new security model I mentioned and some subsequent work that's already been done regarding this model. Okay, so first of all, the sort of model of computation in this talk I'm gonna care about is what's called matrix branching programs. So there are many candidates for IO starting from matrix branching programs. There's also many candidates for IO growing body that start from just circuits. I'm not gonna talk about the ones that start from circuits at all. I'm just gonna focus on IO for matrix branching programs. And this is enough to get IO for all polynomial time computation via some bootstrapping theorems but I'm just gonna focus on branching programs. So a matrix branching program is basically a set of matrices that are sorted into layers. And then you have two bookend vectors. And each layer is associated with some input bit. So that's it. It's just matrices and two vectors on the end. And the way you evaluate the matrix branching program on some input X. So you always have the first bookend and the last bookend vector there. And then for the middle ones, you just pick the matrix that corresponds to the value of the bit that you're reading. So if XI1 was zero, then the first one would be this matrix. And if XI2 was one, then you get this one and so on. So each input selects a subset of the matrices and you multiply through. Okay, and in particular, the output of this function is zero or one depending on whether this product is zero or one, right? So we just care if it's zero or not, not what the actual value is beyond that. Okay, so what's the standard recipe for IO? At this point, most of the matrix branching program, IO candidates follow this recipe with some different bells and whistles on each one, but this is sort of the core technique here. So we start with the branching program as I just described. First, we randomize the matrices. And this is a two-step process. The first one is Kylian's technique where you sort of put these random matrices between the layers and multiply on either side. And then you also multiply with these independent scalars where there's one per matrix, okay? So you can see that this doesn't change the functionality, right? Because these will cancel and the alphas will not change something from zero to nonzero. So randomizing that way preserves the functionality. And then the second step is to encode each of these matrices, excuse me, each element of each matrix in an M-map scheme. So again, I'm gonna focus on GGH 13, but you can think of, in terms of an IO candidate, you can think of the other M-maps as well. And the only important thing here is that this encoding is done in a way such that I can evaluate the branching program. So specifically each honest evaluation of the encoded branching program gives you an encoding that's well-formed, which means I can test if it's zero or not. So this allows functionality. Okay, so I wanna have two slides on the GGH 13 M-map scheme. So these encodings live in a ring of polynomials, which is, I believe, the same ring as the one Tom Craig was talking about. So this is a ring of polynomials, mod some cyclotomic polynomial. And GGH 13 has basically two sort of important classes of secret parameters. The most important is this parameter G, and this defines the plaintext space. Okay, so in particular, if you take the ideal generated by G and you mod R by that, that's gonna be our plaintext space. And by choosing G appropriately, you can show that this is isomorphic to a prime field, so you can think of the plaintext space as a prime field. And then the other important secret parameter is these Zi, which are gonna define the level of each encoding. Okay, and so what do you do with these? You have a value A, a plaintext value, and you wanna encode it at some level S, and here the levels are gonna be a subset of one through K. And note this K here and this K here are the same. Okay, and to encode A at level S, we put A in the numerator plus a small multiple of G, so we choose some small randomness, multiply it by G and add A to it. And then in the denominator, we multiply the Zi's corresponding to the level, okay? And we're doing all of this mod Q, where Q is some big integer, so we're taking the coefficients mod Q. And note that without that, this division might not even be well-defined in the ring R. Okay, good, so that was the sort of setup for GGH 13. So how does the arithmetic work? So I'm not gonna, I'll spray you the technical details here, but it's exactly the same as what Ten Crade was saying. You can add at the same level, and you can multiply at, well, okay, this part is a little different, you can multiply at disjoint level. So if your two levels are disjoint sets, then you can multiply, otherwise you're not allowed to. And in both cases, the new level is the union of the operands level.  Okay, and so this, when you do this, the sort of randomness grows a little bit, but you can tolerate up to a certain degree of the computation. And specifically, you can tolerate up to degree K. And again, these parameters are all chosen such that functionality is preserved. Okay, so for zero testing, what does it look like? So you have this zero testing parameter, which is this kind of funny-looking thing here. And you can see the reason for it when you look at the zero test procedure. So the procedure is just taken in coding of zero. So note that it's zero because I'm not adding anything in the numerator here. Okay, and also crucially, this encoding of zero is at level K, right, it's at the top level. And I multiply by the zero test parameter. The Z's cancel, the G's cancel, and I'm left with R and then this value H, which is just some small randomness that we put in the zero test parameter. Okay, but the point here is that if you've done this right, these two things are very small relative to the modulus Q, right? And if not, so if your encoding was not zero or it was not at the top level, then the output would have size roughly Q. So you can tell if something is zero or not by checking if it's small or not. Okay, good. So what are the attacks that we know of on GGH 13? So there's only three, including the current work, I believe. The first one is actually due to GGH 13. They observed that for some distributions on initial encodings, you can actually recover some of the, you can either recover some of the secret parameters or some information that you would hope to be hidden. So even in the first paper, there was already an observation that some of these encodings are attackable. There was a work by Hu and Jia, which attacks specifically the key exchange protocol. So Tan Craig showed you an attack on the key exchange protocol using GGH 15. Hu and Jia have one using GGH 13. And then in this work, we give an attack on IO. But all of these works have the same high level structure. First, you start with a set of initial encodings and you compute some top level zero encodings using the allowed arithmetic, right? The add at the same level, multiply at the strain levels. You then zero test each top level zero encoding and you collect the leakage. And then you perform some arithmetic on this leakage to recover an element in the ideal G, right? So at the very beginning, when I was saying we're gonna cancel the leakage, this is really what canceling means. It means you take these ring elements that are produced by the zero test and you do some arithmetic over them to recover something in the ideal G. Okay, so that's the kind of crucial step in each of these attacks. That element is then used in various like application-specific ways to break whatever you're looking at, but recovering an element of the ideal G is kind of the core step there. Okay, so let me say what our attack is. So think of a branching program in which every matrix is the identity matrix, okay? So this is probably the simplest branching program you can think of. And this computes the all zeros function. If you choose the book end vectors, right, this computes the all zeros function. This is good for us as an attacker because we can get as many top level zeros as we want by just evaluating the branching program on any input. Okay, so recall that in GGH 13, the output of the zero test for a successful zero test, right, is this element H times the randomness R of the top level encoding. Okay, so in our attack, the first thing that we do is we sort of examine what is the structure of that randomness. And we write it, we sort of stratify by this variable G, right? So we write the randomness as everything that's divisible by G plus everything else, okay? And so what are these P1 and P2? These are polynomials over the underlying multilinear map variable. So both over the input branching program, but also over all of the randomness that was chosen by the multilinear map. And right, we as the attacker, we don't know what those random values are, but we do know, we can compute explicitly what is the polynomial over those random values that is output by the zero test procedure, okay? So once we compute these polynomials, we then find this polynomial Q and this is our annihilating polynomial, okay? And what does it do? It has a property that if you evaluate Q on the set of all these P1s times the H, it will output the zero polynomial, okay? And if given such a Q, it's easy to observe that if I then just evaluate on H times R, this part is gonna go away and I'm gonna be left with something that's divisible by G, which by definition is something in the ideal G, okay? So that's kind of the structure of the attack. But saying it this way, I'm actually sweeping kind of all of the hard stuff under the rug because the core task is actually finding that annihilating polynomial, right? So given a set of polynomials, but I'm calling P1, P1R, the goal is to compute an annihilating polynomial Q that cancels them all out, right? That evaluates to the zero polynomial, okay? So in general, this is actually, seems to be an intractable problem and if you could solve this problem in general, it implies the collapse of the polynomial time hierarchy. This is due to Kayal. It's actually easy to see how to break many crypto applications if you could solve this task, right? So that seems bad for us as the attacker, but it turns out that our polynomials that we're working with here are highly structured and in fact, they are also simplified by the choice of the identity matrix branching program. But in general, these polynomials have roughly the structure of iterated matrix multiplication, which is a very explicit, well-defined polynomial. But still, it has many variables and we still don't know just at first glance how to find the annihilating polynomial for that. So our technique here is to use change of variables, basically. So we take these polynomials over the underlying multilinear map variables and we apply a series of changes of variables that actually reduce the task to annihilating a constant number of polynomials over a constant number of variables. And then we can apply brute force search, which is what we did and we find a polynomial queue, which so even though we're using computer search here, this polynomial queue provably annihilates the polynomials that arise from the zero test procedure. So I'm leaving out the technical details here. They're a little technical for this short talk, but I encourage you to look at the paper. It's not that complicated when you're sitting down looking at it. Okay, whoops, oh no. Oh, I just stepped on my joke. Okay, anyway. Right, so, okay. So I just mentioned how we recover an element of the ideal G, but we actually wanna distinguish the programs, right? So for the second branching program, we choose almost the same thing, except we flip some of the matrices to be this reverse identity instead of the standard identity. This still computes the all zeros function because this thing is its own inverse, so as long as you're always multiplying an even number of these, it's still the all zeros function, right, which is important because we need to distinguish two equivalent programs. And we show that in the same way that this polynomial queue does annihilate the first branching program, it does not annihilate the second, okay? And so if we repeat this process many times, we get many ring elements that are either all in the ideal G or they're not all in the ideal G, and then we can heuristically test this with a Gaussian elimination, I guess, because you can think of these as lattices, basically. Okay, so by doing this, we distinguish the programs, right? So we as the attacker have one, right? But we're not attackers. We're cryptographers, we wanna be secure, and this is really bad because we're not winning anymore, right? So we need to do something about this, and so let's make obfuscation great again. I wish I hadn't stepped on my joke there, but I did. Okay, so I just have a few minutes left. Let me say what we can hope to do in the face of this. Okay, so how have we modeled multi-linear maps so far? Actually, before I say that, let me say a quick caveat about the attack. So our attack, we don't know that it breaks all of the candidate IO schemes. There are many schemes that we can break with it, but there are some that we can't, and in particular the original candidate, we don't know how to break. And similarly, candidates that sort of start by converting a circuit from Barrington's theorem, we also don't know how to break these. But the point is that for all of these candidates, both the ones that we have broken and the ones that we haven't, these are all proven secure in this ideal multi-linear map model, right? So even though you have some candidates that you can prove secure in this model that we don't know how to break, we know that this model is inadequate. In fact, we already knew this for M-maps in general, but we now know it for IO in particular, right? There are IO candidates that are secure in this ideal model, but which are broken in the real world. So that's clearly a problem. So what is actually the problem with the model? And the problem is that the model assumes that the zero test just outputs a bit, right? It kind of pretends that this leakage is not there. And so it artificially prohibits this kind of attack that uses this leakage. Okay, so our solution is to provide a new weak multi-linear map model that actually allows the adversary to perform these post-zero test computations. Okay, so what does the model do roughly? Basically, the model actually keeps track of the formal polynomials over these underlying variables throughout all of the encoding. So the standard model kind of just keeps track of the ring element and basically forgets how it got there, right? But this new model keeps track of exactly how each of these computations were computed. And the key new feature of this model is that when you do a zero test, you actually get back a pointer to that polynomial and you can do some further arithmetic on it. And in this model, we say that the adversary wins if it finds some post-zero test polynomial Q whose output is the zero polynomial mod G. So Q is evaluated on all these post-zero test polynomials and the adversary wins if it gets something mod G, which again corresponds to something living in the ideal G, which as I mentioned, all of the attacks that we know of have to go through this, right? So this model really captures a crucial part of each of the attacks that we know of. Okay, and then in subsequent work, there's been two new IO candidates that are proven secure in this weak multi-linear map model. So the first one is due to Guard, Mukherjee and Srinivasan and the second one is due to the same authors of this paper. And again, these are provably secure in this model, assuming a pseudo-random function in NC1. In ours, the assumption can be made slightly more general, but again, this is a standard crypto assumption. And so these are thus secure against all of the attacks that we know of against GGH 13. Okay, so I will conclude there and thank you very much.


Hi everyone happy Wednesday. I'm Joe for jaspyscasebrakes.com coming at you with 2020 tops chrome Update baseball sapphire addition a lot of layers there four box random team break number one as you can see right there One spot gets you two teams in this four box break one auto per box a lot of nice stuff here So let's take you guys right here and let's uh double up. Oh, oh Like Sir mix a lot all 30 teams are in let's roll it. Let's rando it two and a three five times for names and teams one two three four and five Jonathan down to Nick two and a three five times for the teams one two three four and And fifth and final time after five we've got the Marlins down to the Chicago White Sox All right So here's how the randomizer shakes out for all of you Jonathan with the Marlins Jason with my rivals the Giants Nick with The O's Wade with the Nationals Chris with the Rockies David with the Indians Brandon with the Red Sox and the Yankees Jeremy with the Astros Peter with the Cubbies Emma you got my Dodgers Jason with the Reds Jonathan with the Diamondbacks Juan with the twins Peter with the Phillies Jarell with the brew crew Adam with the Angels Jarell with the Pirates Chris with the Tampa Bay Rays Emma with the Blue Jays Juan with the Tigers Wade with the A's David with the Mariners Jonathan with the Royals John Padres Jonathan Braves Adam Cardinals John with the Rangers Jeremy Port with the Mets Nicoba with the Chicago White Sox All right, so let's put all this on one page here Sort by column B.  I'm gonna go grab the boxes as well So stick around we'll be right back All right, welcome back. Well, there was a lot of trade chatter, but the deal did just not did not get done Here on the third four box random team number one. It's all good We got another four boxes in the store I think a few more breaks to run after that as well judging from what I saw in the back I think that's all for me And not for not for Instagram Maybe some are for Instagram. So there's the three box right here in the fourth right here Good luck ladies and gentlemen all card ship, right? Yes, all card ship the next break is Already in single digits the 15 spot break. It's already at nine a couple boxes. We'll go two at a time Oh autographs, I think there's one auto a box Eight packs per box four cards per pack. There should be an auto for box If you want to look at the odds There they are right there. It's not like super tiny so I can actually show it to you We're inching closer and closer to the baseball season folks, which is exciting Thanks. I don't know what the latest is spring training is supposed to be on time But the season might not start on time. There may be fewer games more double headers a DH I don't know what the latest proposal or counter proposal has been but Either way looks like we're gonna get some baseball this season Ray can't believe Aaron Otto got traded Well, I think that's been kind of in the works for a while last year Aaron Otto and the Cardinals were were kind of a Kind of in talks, but it just never worked out so the So the smoke was there Finally happened this year. I can't believe they sent that much money to the Cardinals I mean, I know they're saving money on the On the aeronaut by not paying Aaron Otto for the rest of his years, but still $50 million to make Aaron Otto go away Basically, I mean It's a lot Just just This just didn't work out. I Think he expected a lot of I mean I think him and and Rockies fans expected ownership to do a lot of things to build around Aaron Otto and I think Just didn't happen. All right. We've got green Ichiro. Nice 43 out of 45 It's pretty nice one for the Mariners David Duffy Well, that's what I was saying yesterday, Ray is that if you're gonna move Aaron Otto then move everybody trade everyone You know trade Charlie Blackman Trade Trevor story get rid of all of them So nice one David Duffy. I love that atomic background that they have here. It's pretty sharp Not Randy aros aranio played some good ball last year in the playoffs And our autograph is a nice one Nick Solak for the Texas Rangers That's John Dine last spot mojo strikes again 60% of the time last spot mojo hits 100% of the time It's truth. It's supposed to be pretty good. We've got some orange coming up here and it's orange Chris Martin 11 out of 25 Orange Chris Martin. I didn't know that the the front man for Coldplay was playing a little American baseball here That goes to Jonathan and the ATL and for the Giants Mauricio Dubon That goes to Jason and the Giants a nice my trout right here, too. I heard of this guy. This guy's pretty good It'll go to the angels that'll be for Adam. All right next two boxes And we got another four box break in the store right now jaspys case breaks calm Adam's saying kid. I went to high school with got drafted by the Rockies in the third round last year He reason I trade to the Red Sox pretty cool to come back home. That is pretty cool I wonder if that's a Hassler and some players say it's a hassle some players say like People are hitting up for tickets and friends that aren't really your friends coming out of the woodwork Like I see if you can play in front of your like family. That'd be pretty cool Red Sox fans take care of take care of Alex for do go and now Kike Hernandez You guys are gonna love Kike guy guy can play almost every position is clutch Great leader in the clubhouse you know Pretty good follow on social media But yeah, Kike Hernandez is gonna be a lot of is gonna be a lot of fun is and he gets a chance to play every day so hopefully that will That will really show the world what he can he can do. I don't think he was gonna quite get that playing time in in LA LA is just Luxury of too much depth But you really should have a chance to play every day next two boxes again We've got more in the store, but we do not have an Unlimited supply so I would get into this early and often before we run out. We might blink and be like, oh, there we go I guess that's it So don't miss out. This stuff is really great The resale value on this is pretty strong too. That's why we're we're sending everything here I think that's just the background That's definitely numbered that's Sean poppin 23 out of 25 Poppin for Wade in Washington member member Todd van Poppel There's poppin right there though. No no relation obviously and behind Kersh is oh Nice and Anthony Rendon autograph Tip tip your bartenders. There's Ryan Harold and that'll be for Adam and the angels There you go There's a Luis Robert for Nick Kova and Chicago lights on Final stack here and we're all card ships. So Hopefully everyone will be getting something 45 out of 45 Tommy Pham There you go Pham that goes to John and the Friars and reconstructed that starting rotation, which should be Should be interesting to see That's a Dodgers fan There's Brock Holt and behind Brock Holt is shun Yamaguchi rookie autograph for the Toronto Blue Jay that'll be for Emma there you go Emma award and the bluebirds Joe Kelly And Julio Tehran and Josh Fuentes right here and there you go ladies and gentlemen That's it. That was 2020 tops chrome update baseball sapphire edition random team number one There you go boys and girls not too shabby at all all card ship, but these are some of the some of the highlights here Thanks for watching. Thanks for breaking. I'm Joe. I'll see you next time for the next break


Hello and welcome to Jenkins Docs Office Hours. Today is November 30th. This is the EU U.S. edition and today we have myself Kevin Martins, Mark Whee and Brnoe Verrachton on the agenda. So last up latest LTS was released just a couple weeks ago. Contributor Spotlight, the Jenkins Contributor Summit, Fozdom. Oh, yep. And I think we're on the same page, Mark, because I do have the sponsor attributes, one item down. So good to see. So yeah, adding sponsor attributes to Jenkins.io. The packaging repo recently had an update to support UNIX domain sockets. GSOC 2024 preps ongoing and the version documentation site for Jenkins.io. Mark, you mentioned there were some other things you wanted to add to the agenda. Are they there or is there anything else to add on that? You got them. Okay, perfect. All right. So starting off. So again, LTS 2.426.1 was released on November 15th. Everything went well. And Darren and Mark did a live stream the next day, going over all the new features and fun stuff. LTS 2.426.2 is set to release on December 13th and the release candidate was actually pushed today. So that is available via the developer mailing list. Next up, so the Contributor Spotlight site, which is something that we recently started discussing, is now live. This is fantastic. This is the result of months of work and research and determination by Alyssa Tong, Bruno Verrachtin, John Mark Messin, myself. Chris Stern has done so much work on the site making sure that this is working and live. There's just been so many folks working on this and helping with this. Just thanks to everyone. This is fantastic to have. So the Contributor Spotlight site is live. And our first contributor to Spotlight is Alexander Brandis. So throughout the familiar with Alex, he's part of the Jenkins Government Board. He's been part of the Jenkins community since 2019. And yeah, he's just been a really great pillar to have as part of the Jenkins community for the last handful of years. So thanks to Alex and really happy to be able to Spotlight him. We're going to be releasing new publishing new contributor Spotlights every two weeks. We want to give time for the existing contributor to have time and be highlighted. Give some room just in case there are other announcements that need to be made. We don't want to take away from anyone. The idea is we appreciate this work that goes into keeping Jenkins the way it is and keeping it on the cutting edge. We're highlighting. We're appreciating. We want people to know who these contributors are. It's been announced to be a LinkedIn, Twitter. We have a blog post on the Jenkins blog and it was announced in the Gitter channel. So we are putting this stuff out there. We're still collecting responses. There are more to come. I still have to do mine. I know Mark just did his recently. There's a couple other folks that are still waiting on. So there's going to be more content to come. But we do have enough right now. That will be good for a little while. We are generating feedback and suggestions review from anyone that is willing to look at it. We've been able to update and fix some of the mobile formatting issues. Thanks to Christopher for doing all of this to help keep the site looking nice and presentable and everything they're doing. They're up very late doing a lot of work. So I just have an ending thanks to Chris for all of this. And then something that just came up in the advocacy and outreach meeting we had earlier today was that the Jenkins contributor spotlight page, the way it's formatted or the way it's set up now is if you click on the Jenkins name logo here, it keeps you on the contributor spotlight page. Whereas if you were to go to the blog, it will take you to the Jenkins.io home page. This functionality is present in other areas. So plugins.jengens.io, the same thing happens here. If I go to GitHub release plugin, it's going to just take me back to plugins.io. Same thing with stories. If I go to any of the user stories, it's going to take me to stories.jengens.io. So the question's been raised, should this be the case? Or should the contributor spotlight Jenkins logo navigate back to Jenkins.io? Alyssa had pointed out that if someone's not aware, they would have to click on the blog or the documentation or something else that is part of just Jenkins.io and then they can use that to get back to the home page. However, the contributor spotlight functionality is consistent with other sub-domains that we have in the infrastructure. So yeah, curious. Marc, Bruno, what do you think? Do you have thoughts on this or your preferences? In fact, I've been thinking for you that this was kind of a bug or maybe a bug in me or in bug in the website. I was not able to decide, but it's disturbing for me to click on Jenkins and not go to Jenkins.io. It always has been, but I didn't find the time or whatever to file an issue or something. I was not sure if that was a problem or just me not understanding how the website supposed to work. So for me, yes, I would prefer to have to go back to Jenkins.io in all of these sub-websites whenever I click on Jenkins, but adjust personal taste. And I think my personal taste is the other direction because when I'm on the plugin site, I want to stay there. But it's a fair point that it's a preference thing, right? It's not an obvious, oh, it should always do this. I think pretty commonly top left takes us to the root of everything, everything. And so if you navigate on contributor spotlight and open up Alex Brandis' specific page, now you click the top left, it takes us home to contributor spotlight. Yeah. And likewise for plugins. So it's behaving at least in some fashion as conceptually consistent, but I'm not sure that it's consistent for what users expect. I don't know. I don't want to open a kind of words, but couldn't we set something with cookies, you know, like some website do with dark background or light background? Probably could, but I don't think that's a level of, I don't think we want a preference management UI on the Jenkins static website. Yes, yes, we certainly could, but I would, I would lobby against it just because let's, now that's just me, but I'm, there's an element of mind that's lazy and says, I don't want to, I don't want to mess with this, if I don't have to. If it's not broken, don't fix it. Well, and if it should go, if it should always go to www.jkins.io, then we make the change in the top level components page. And I think that's a good thing to have as a discussion in, in that, in that context. Thank you very much, Mark and Bruno for sharing. I'm actually pretty torn on both sides. I can see why it makes sense to have it go home. And I also get that it's doing the same thing other pages are doing. So, yeah, should I just open an issue for this mark on the Jenkins.io repo and we can have discussion there? Yeah, I think that's a, that's a good way to approach it. Yep. Okay. Yeah, then I'll go ahead and open up an issue on navigate for the navigation of that link. And we can have more discussion there. I think that that would be really helpful and we could get more opinions because right now we're at a stalemate and I'm not helping. So, yeah. Great. Any other thoughts, comments, concerns about the contributor spotlight site? Bruno and Mark, before we move on. Okay. Great. So next thing on the agenda is the Jenkins contributor summit at Fosdom is happening. So, Jean-Marc Missin has written up a nice blog post explaining what the Jenkins contributor summit is, important dates, information, etc., etc., who to contact. So, all great information, really important. And then we also have the Jenkins Meetup page actually up now. So, if you are planning on attending, you can register that here and share that with us. And so, we'll know who's attending and who to expect and who to plan for and everything like that. The folks right now listed are hosting. So, we actually have gotten one more attendee. That's nice. So, great. So, great to see you there. And yeah, obviously there's still some time to register. Fosdom is free to attend.  Next up. So, we just had a packaging pull request merge. And this pull request adds support for UNIX domain sockets in Jenkins.  They've explained the purpose and the reasoning for the update. And so, what I've now gone and done is created separate tickets for each reverse proxy configuration. This creates new, because it's now supporting the UNIX domain sockets, there's additional steps and information that needs to be added to the reverse proxy configuration pages. So, I've created a separate issue for each one. And for the Apache one, specifically, since the user contributed using Apache as their example in their kind of building test, I've tagged them in the Apache ticket to see if they'd be interested in adding that documentation. The rest, we would want to have people with engine experience or how proxy experience, Pomeranian experience, et cetera, kind of making sure that this is all going in there correctly, that it's not upsetting anything or contradicting anything that already exists because we do have what works already. And IP tables may be less interacted with one. It may not be as high of a choice as, say, Apache or Ingenix. So, there may not be action on that, but Apache and Ingenix are fairly commonly used and pretty popular, so more likely that we get some action there. And then, Mark, anything else on that on the reverse proxy stuff or anything like that? Oh, so the work, the option is there to do the work, and this is non-trivial doing this because you've got to know enough about the reverse proxy to configure it to use Unix domain sockets. And you've got to know enough about System D to configure Jenkins to use Unix domain sockets. And then, you've got to be able to write it into the text. So, the issues are open and they are not great candidates for a brand new contributor. Gotcha. Yeah, that's good to note. That's not just a simple adding some text and calling it a day. It does require verification testing, et cetera. Right. And the problem is if a brand new contributor picks it up and does it, then whoever's reviewing it has to do the verification as well and then waste time if the contributor did it wrong and didn't do a good job of verification. So, much rather we not have someone with no experience pick one of these up and offer a bad pull request. It wastes time. That experience is overall for the submitter and the reviewer. Right, exactly. If we have to teach the submitter how to configure a reverse proxy in one of these web servers, we've now wasted an awful lot of time. Right. Great. Thank you very much, Mark, for adding that context and explaining a bit further on what we're looking for in that regard. So, next up on the agenda, we have a request to adding sponsor attributions. So, this is an issue that was opened up by Mark. A friend from JFrog had asked that we include JFrog attributed as a sponsor in the downloads page. We're using artifactory. They have every right to want to be highlighted as a sponsor. So, this then took on the form of a discussion where Basil had said, suggesting having a dedicated sponsors page, not unlike other projects and other platforms. So, that's where we're at at this point in time is Basil's created a draft sponsors page. So, we have this here to, I think I can go to the view, or is it already linked in here, Mark? It is. At least that's the prototype. Right. Yeah. So, here's the deploy link to preview. So, basically, we have to figure out or determine what levels of sponsors everyone is, assign them accordingly on the levels here and we'll have a dedicated sponsors page to showcase all the sponsorships that Jenkins has. On top of that, there's also discussion around whether they are separate sponsorship attributions on the download page itself and the root page itself, in addition to having the dedicated sponsors page. And based on JFrog's reasoning, I think it makes sense to have separate attributions as well as the sponsors page. Whether or not they're included in that, because the point being made was that JFrog is not necessarily being used for downloads specifically. So, maybe not including them there, but whoever the downloads are sponsored by including them there. Well, you're describing the challenge on the downloads page. In the original issue that was submitted, it describes that the downloads page, all of the links from that page go to locations that are not JFrog provided. And so, however, JFrog provides a lot of downloads for us because all Jenkins development is critically dependent on JFrog downloads. So, the downloads page is a good high visibility place to talk about who provides our binary archives and who provides our binary archives for developers, it's JFrog. For users, it's DigitalOcean and these various mirror sponsors like the Oregon State University Open Source Lab, Xmission, Tsinghua, and Cervana. So, yeah, the discussions are there and we don't have a final solution yet, but I like and agree with the idea that we need to set levels and place sponsors here. Right now, if you go to the root page, www.jankins.io in a separate tab, we can look at what we have right now as a way to show our sponsors. And this is not nearly fine enough granularity, right? I think Basel is correct to say that we need more levels, because the contribution from the OSL, the OSU Open Source Lab, by the way there, yeah, the Oregon State University Open Source Lab from OSL is very different from the contribution from CloudBees. Likewise, the Red Hat contribution is very different from JFrog's contribution. So, we've got levels that we need to highlight and I think Basel's got a good idea. If you go back to the list in the document, he so all the way back to the meeting notes. Okay. He suggested Anker, Premier, Partner, Supporter, Associate, and Mirror. And that sort of aligns with at least some portion of the three levels that the CD Foundation has, Premier, General, and End User, we could find a way to map those. I think we need more than three, I'm not persuaded we need six. And that's where the, okay, why am I saying that? Because there are criteria that each of these have. And what I haven't done is express the criteria for those levels. And the criteria are the thing that really matters, right? What would it mean to be Anker? And what would it mean to be a Premier? And what would it mean to be Mirror, etc.? So, can we describe each and every support level by money? Or are some of these services, some of these support, do they always imply some money or other services? We don't know if that's the amount of money it corresponds to. You hit it very, very well, Bruno. Many of these, many of our supporters, we do not have a direct cash amount that we can say, because let's take two examples, GitHub and JFrog, right? Both exceptional supporters of us, both really doing great things. GitHub hosts 2000 plus repositories for the Jenkins project, provides private hosting for security repositories, provides all sorts of capacity for us, but monetary assignment of that value is difficult to do.  They just say, here's this service, we provide this to open source. So, but we can, part of me says, we could do a financial approximation and say, hey, if we bought GitHub Enterprise for the 600 plus Jenkins contributors, it would cost us this much a year. And that then would give us a financial approximation. Others, it's more difficult. How do we do a financial approximation for the mirrors hosted by the open source lab at Oregon State University? The answer is, we could play approximation games with bandwidth use, but it gets complicated. So, there's a piece of that where I think we can't do a simple financial mapping. There are others where I think we can do a financial mapping because we have exact amounts, the continuous delivery foundation, we know what their contribution is to our infrastructure. Others likewise, CloudBees donates a significant amount to Jenkins project infrastructure. CloudBees donates a lot of people to work on Jenkins. So, there you have it. Does that tell us why we don't have an answer yet? But I think you've got a framework for a discussion. Thank you, Mark. Thank you very much, Mark. That helped clarify a lot and I think helped add a lot of context that I was potentially missing or just not didn't have. So, yeah, thank you very much for helping paint that picture for everyone. And yeah, there is a happy medium between three and six, I think, four or five. Well, and I'm not sure that the Basel's labels are interesting labels, but I need to do some research elsewhere to find are there other labels that other projects use that might better map to us. And I just don't know. The word partner, for instance, is loaded with meaning and has caused grumbling in the Jenkins project in the past when anyone tried to use it as a way of saying we're a Jenkins partner because Jenkins does not establish partnerships. Therefore, the word partner may be overloaded. That those kinds of things. Yeah, definitely. So it's going to take some time, but we'll figure it out. And I think it's a great, I think regardless of what the outcome is, it's a great idea and something I should absolutely implement. So, thank you very much, Mark. Next up on the agenda, Google Summer of Code 2024 prep work has begun. It's ongoing. Chris Stern is leading the Google Summer of Code 2024. Really happy to have them doing that. Thanks again to Chris for all the work. I can't say it enough today. But yeah, so work's being done there. Project Ideas page is live. We've got about 14 ideas. Whether they all make it, we'll see you about that. But we are looking for mentors specifically for any of the project ideas. By all means, if you feel intrigued, curious, or even slightly interested, check out the projects page. See if there's something there that you might be interested in. The more support, the more people we have, the better it's going to be, the more likely it is to get picked up as a project. And you know, at the end of the day, if one of the projects doesn't work out, that doesn't mean you can't join a different project and hop on there or become a mentor for a different project if it's remotely interesting to you in that sense. But more information can be found on the Google Summer of Code page in Jenkins. The projects page will link to other project ideas and have more information on each of those. And you can see who's already potentially signed up or on board for that project. And then the last thing I have on the agenda for today is the version documentation site for Jenkins.io, still being worked on by Chris Stern and Van Dieet Singh. Van Dieet's working to update the documentation copy from the latest changes that we've been going through on Jenkins. And yeah, they have the preview site available as they have had. So it's looking really nice. And yeah, just looking forward to that. And that covers the agenda I had for today. Did anyone else have anything they wanted to add or discuss before we wrap things up and stop the recording? I just wanted to tell you about a small anecdote. There was a guy on community.jnk.io showing off an article he had written on Medium about Jenkins. So I dragged him by the call and said, hey, what about making an article on Jenkins.io blog itself? He said, oh, yes, thanks a lot. I'm honored and so on. But I thought it would be, you know, the contributing guide would be kind of intimidating. It's not that easy to have a working environment on your machine to get Jenkins.io up and running. But he did it in the heartbeat. And there's already a draft PR existing on Jenkins.io. So I'm pretty happy with the way all of this went. So yeah, the contributing guide is kind of working. And that's cool. Thanks, Ron. I'm glad you pointed that out. I did see that earlier. I've been working on the contributor spotlight stuff. So I didn't get a chance to review it yet. Really cool that it's someone cross posting from Medium to have that visibility come over and kind of expand upon that. That's so cool. I'm really happy to have that. Thank you for advocating and encouraging them to do this. Great. All right. So that covers everything today. Yeah, we'll stop the recording in just a moment here. It will be available 24 to 48 hours, as always. Docs Office Hours Asia is cancelled later today. So that won't be happening. We'll be back next week. And yeah, until then, take care. Stay safe. As always, contribute to Jenkins whenever you feel like it or can. And we'll see you then. Thanks.