Welcome to Sheboygan County government working for you my name is Adam Payne I'm the Sheboygan County Administrative Coordinator and with me today is my co-host Bill Gehring County Board Chairman and our guest Sheriff Michael Helmke who was elected in November and took His new responsibilities over in January and why don't we get started Mike by you telling us a little bit about yourself and Your background in law enforcement. I am as Mr. Payne said Michael Helmke. I am a lifelong resident of Sheboygan County I'm married and have two adult children. I currently live in the city of Sheboygan. I have been a life Well 25 year member of the Sheriff's Department. In fact today is my 25th anniversary with Sheboygan County I have made law enforcement my career in Sheboygan County is the place that I chose to Explore my career. Well happy anniversary 25 years on the law enforcement with with the Sheriff's Department Correct, and you've also done some other work. Have you not with? Yes Actually, I started my law enforcement career six months prior to starting with the county with the village of Cascade Police Department where I was hired as their police chief over I Retired from that position on the end of last year after serving 25 and a half years with them As part of those responsibilities, we also provided law enforcement services to the town of Linden in the village of Aldo so a long campaign a well-fought race what Initiated the thoughts of one day becoming Sheriff. Why'd you want to be Sheriff? Well? I Think that just based on what I had said that you know I chose to make law enforcement my career and Sheboygan County the place in which I wanted to Participate in law enforcement. I've been I've had a history of being actively involved in in the Sheriff's Department with different programs and different Special assignments and so on and forth so far. So I figured that This was kind of a natural progression in my professional career So why don't you give our viewers a little bit of a flavor for your roles and responsibilities? What's it like to be Sheriff? What are you responsible for? Well? the Sheriff is the department head is responsible for the overall leadership of the Sheriff's Department Obviously, I'm directly involved in setting goals and objectives managing supervising and organizing the work within the Sheriff's Department and Can you expand on that a little bit in regards to some of your daily activities? I know you meet with your top Managers and talk about you know where you're headed and what some of the the objectives are for the day But what else could you share with us? Yes, I guess if anything has surprised me and in the eight weeks or two months that I've held this office is The number of meetings that that are involved my time is is Incredibly valuable now and meeting with people which which I had expected was going to be a large part of the job Has is probably occupying a lot of my my time in attention right now, but in addition to that You know the sheriff has got to work with within with with other county department heads with other law enforcement officials and city and county officials to to Provide the service that law enforcement provides so we're kind of all work together and It's it's a large part of my job meeting and in coordinating those efforts Communication is key it is now you mentioned working with other law enforcement jurisdictions How is the sheriff's department different than other municipal police departments? Well by statute The sheriff's department or the sheriff Has statutory responsibilities which include being the custodian of the county jail Providing courtroom security for an example bailiffs in each of the five circuit courts The sheriff is also responsible by statute to execute all process and civil process rits and warrants and things like that they Are also In charge of enforcing rescue and water recovery for likes within their jurisdiction and Then typically what most people see law enforcement do is to provide law enforcement services to the Areas of the county that don't have their own municipal police departments in addition to that The sheriff is to enforce all orders of the department of commerce as it relates to the sale Transportation in storage of explosives So if you have any ideas of who might want to help us and in those details, let me know I think most of our viewers who have Watched the program from time to time every month or just about every month We focus on a different department and just try to bring to our viewers a better understanding of the roles and Responsibility of their county government. We've got over a hundred and thirty million dollar budget. We have 23 departments Law enforcement the sheriff's department is one of our largest without question. How many employees do you have and? Approximately, what's your annual budget? we have a hundred and seventy-eight employees at the sheriff's department and Our two thousand and three budget is thirteen point three million dollars With a budget of that size and that number of employees and you just gave a nice snapshot of some of the roles and responsibilities How many divisions does the sheriff's department have or if you were explaining it to a layperson You know, how would you break it out by divisions and their respective roles and responsibilities? The sheriff's department has three divisions, but within those three divisions are actually for work units That are more easily identifiable The patrol division like I had just mentioned is probably the one that people equate More commonly to to the sheriff's department and that is providing law enforcement services to Those parts of the counties that don't have their own municipal police department Although we do aid other municipal police departments in certain specialized functions our primary Responsibility in a patrol division is to provide those law enforcement services to the other citizens of Sheboyton County We have a criminal investigations division that is comprised of detectives that are in charge of investigating criminal offenses and Doing criminal investigations They'll do background investigations Employment background investigations and things of those nature We have a civil process division. I had mentioned before that that was one of the statutory responsibilities of the sheriff we have a work unit there of four full-time deputies who All they do is serve civil process papers evictions rits foreclosures and things of those nature and we have a Also in the civil process division following under kind of their same venue Our court services I had mentioned the bailiffs provide security to the court to the courts We have five bailiffs that serve one in each one of the five Circuit courts And then we have a corrections division which has Probably become one of our largest divisions as far as employees and where a lot of our money is dedicated to We have as you know Basically three freestanding jail facilities We have our detention center on the south side in the industrial park that houses our secure mail and Huber law mails and downtown above the sheriff's department we have Which was the old jail That that has been based basically sectioned off into two sections. One section is for females and In part of that same section is The males that are brought over to the detention center that are being held for a court appearance that they temporary Holding area for them and then the other Segregated section of the downtown jail is our juvenile detention facility Which houses obviously juvenile offenders and just a quick distinction you mentioned Huber law inmates What is a Huber law in me Huber law inmates or work release inmates are sometimes called are those People that have been sentenced to do a jail term But have Huber law privileges or work release privileges that are they're allowed to leave jail to work in the They're required to come back Thank You sheriff Mike the sheriff's department is a number of special teams or units. Could you talk about those teams or units certainly? We have a highly trained accident reconstruction unit What they do is they investigate our more serious injury accident are in our fatal accidents They are extensively trained and highly trained in in accident Investigations and all of the dynamics that are involved in an accident They are also Equipped with a specialized equipment laser measuring devices and things of those nature to aid them in that job We have a bicycle patrol that you see out in the summer when the weather is nice We added that to the department a number of years ago in hopes of getting our officers a Little more directly in touch with the community it gives our officers an opportunity to actually be outside of the Steel enclosure of a squad car and right around on the bicycle in the village and make contact with citizens and children and adults We have a boat a boat patrol We have two boats a larger boat that we acquired from the cost card a number of years ago That's primarily used on Lake Michigan and in the harbor as well as a smaller boat that we use on the inland lakes During the summer as time permits We have a motorcycle and a motorcycle patrol a couple of guys that have been trained in motorcycle operation that we get out to to Kind of be used for a couple of things very similar to the bicycle It's a little more accessible for citizens to make contact with the officer when they're on the motorcycle And it's used for special details and in parades and things of that nature We have Snowmobile and ATVs that we use as time permits and weather permits snowmobile I don't think got out at all this winter But it's there and it can be used for not only in patrol and enforcement efforts But if we'd have somebody lost like out on the marsh or in the in the kettles with the ATV We have a SWAC team which is a Special weapons and assault team That's used for high-risk Situations where Firearms may be involved We also have a couple of shared teams that We we share with with other law enforcement agencies in the county and one of those is our our drug enforcement unit they That like I said, that's a shared team comprised of primarily officers from the Sheboygan Police Department and the Sheriff's Department, but The other law enforcement agencies do have investigators that work from time to time with that unit In addition to that we have a combined dive team with the city So those are there's some of the some of the specialized things that we do You've been sheriff now for about two months. Are there any specific goals you'd like to accomplish and during your term in office? Yes Obviously one of my high priorities is to Maintain a professional level of service to the citizens that we that I'm responsible to Obviously, I'd like to continue and Maybe explore other ways to network and teamwork and cooperate and coordinate between not only other law enforcement agencies in the county, but with city and county Political officials the goal being that I would like to provide, you know, the quality of service and effective and efficient service that the citizens of Sheboygan County have come to expect and enjoy Any particular new initiatives you'd like to bring on board? Well, yes, some of them. I've already started One of them was to aggressively pursue outstanding arrest warrants. It's It's it's something that was out there and after we opened the detention center We we've finally had some capability to to actively pursue some of the outstanding arrest warrants And it's it's surprising how quickly after you place the handcuffs on somebody that they find a way to come up with The money that they need in order to purge that warrant So that's been kind of that that's been one of my initiatives And I've directed our patrol division to take up an aggressive position on that and they have thus far We're doing very well in that aspect We lost our school liaison officer that served on a part-time basis between Random Lake High School and Usberg High School Last year because of some budgetary Constraints within the school. I would like to maybe somehow Get together with the schools again to see if there's some way we can work towards Getting that officer back in the school Sometimes it's it's it's difficult for the public to see the benefits of of an officer like that in terms of dollars But we have seen and I think the school has seen some real positive Things come from having that liaison officer available in the school I'd like to explore the reinstatement of special deputies It's it's a program that we had in the past and I think that With all of the things that are on the plate for Sheboygan County in the future as far as potential for tourism and things like that events We may need to supplement our current staffing with a less expensive Type of staffing The County Humane Officer has is an area that I think that maybe we could share all law enforcement Agencies and some of the village and town towns that have constables. I know that we're always Confronted with questions about humane issues as it relates to dogs and cows and horses and things like that Especially in the winter with the weather I would like to explore that and see what resources there are in the community to help us Get a more active humane officer in the county The canine unit was a was another Special detail that we had had at one time and I see some advantages in some ways that we could maybe share that resource with other county law enforcement agencies as well and Then one of the other things that I've done in fact before I left the office today to come here I had Got a communication from our jail administrator I had put out I given him the Authorization to kind of put feelers out for other counties that might be experiencing jail overcrowding to see if we could Take on some of those inmates as a source of revenue and there are some possibilities There so those are some of the things that I'm Already started on but other things that I would like to work towards in the next Several months. That's a very impressive list. I wish you success. Thank you on all those areas We've heard a lot about the state budget deficit and how it may affect counties Do you have any idea how that might affect your department? Well from a local and county perspective? I see the you know the potential loss of shared revenue Having an impact on not only the sheriff's department, but all Entities of government and I guess my Concern there or my interest there would be what impact that that might have on staffing and our ability to provide Efficient and effective services to the community we serve from a state or federal perspective we We utilize grant money in Delivering a lot of our services, especially some of our special details and I would have some concern as to What if any effect on the cutting of those grants might have on public safety issues in the county? for an example Our speed wave and our click it speed wave is enforcement for speeding violations Click it is a seat belt detail that's Enforced through grant money We have mobile eyes, which is a is a public service announcement program where we try to get the word out for citizens to report impaired driving And and those are largely funded through grants and I would I would hope that we can continue to deliver Those types of services and that that grant money would still be there in addition to that The jail as I had said is a major draw on our resources and our our budget and There's always money coming from this from the state to supplement In means that might not have funds as far as their their their boarding their medical and drug expenses and so on and so forth so I'd be I I'd be You know real concerned if we start losing that because we would probably then have to pick up some of that We were normally getting through state grants Have you been thinking about any ways that we could reduce costs within the Sheriff's Department? Oh, absolutely, I Think that What I would like to do within the Department and I've already directed my administrative staff to do is to Come up with some ideas as to how we can save money And I've also passed that on to our officers because they're probably in the best position to determine You know from an operational aspect what they're doing on a day-to-day basis that might be able to save us some money with that I would like to do a complete inventory of Within the Sheriff's Department of not only the the cost for the services that we provide But the cost of our equipment and our supplies and see if there are ways there that we could share with maybe Maybe not so much with other law enforcement agencies, but within city and county government if we can If we can save Administrative staff Purchasing items and things like that on a on a cooperative Quantity type basis. I think we need to explore that from a law enforcement Perspective where you know where we're buying some high-priced specialized equipment fire arms and ballistic vests and squad cars if we could Get together with the other law enforcement agencies in the county or maybe even in this part of the state to to buy on a Purchase when we're going to purchase purchase purchase on a quantity basis and hopefully save some money So those are some of the things that I'd like to do One of the things that I'm very concerned about is sharing services with other Communities, are there any areas that you feel we could share more with the city or other? yeah, absolutely You know the joint dispatch issue has come up several times in the past and I Would you know be open to To explore that possibility clearly there's an area that there's an opportunity possibly for shared Dispatch other areas that I think we could share was one of them I had talked about our accident reconstruction team is a highly specialized team that Because of the nature of their job. They have very expensive equipment I think we could share that you know not only throughout the county But maybe even regionally and assist in those areas Training law enforcement training I had opened up our training We do in-service training every spring within our department this year I had made an invitation to the other county police chiefs to participate in our training and let them know what we were training in and Some of them have taken advantage of that And like I had said, I think the the purchasing of a specialized equipment that You know specific to law enforcement would be another area that maybe we can work on instead of the chief of police in Plymouth looking to buy Some piece of law enforcement equipment. Maybe we are at the same time We don't know and we go off and and buy it separately and maybe we could have saved some money by By purchasing those things jointly So there are there are a lot of opportunities to do things and I think that the climate is right to to explore Sharing of services in hopes of reducing the duplication of services You've really sent a lot of good goals for yourself sheriff What do you think your biggest challenges might be during during your term of office? Well clearly? I think dealing with the the budget and the implications of you know What are the loss of shared revenue well mean to our department? I guess my My concern would be or my challenge I see is maintaining The level of staffing that the county has permitted me to have within the sheriff's department to be able to maintain that Staffing because I see a lot of a lot of things that are going to be you know On our on the sheriff's department's plate in the years to come we have we have concerns for a Domestic security domestic terrorism We have a lot of events that are planned for Sheboygan County that are going to require law enforcement presence So I'm hoping and I and I'm thinking that that's probably my greatest challenge is to just try to maintain The staffing level that I have not losing that respect and and continue to provide some of the special things That we have talked about to the community in a you know cost effective efficient manner Sure if it was good to hear you mentioned earlier That you're asking your staff what their ideas are for operational savings or how we can become more efficient or provide service more effectively and I know the chairman and I and County board supervisors all of us and county government We take a tremendous amount of pride in the work We do and the services that we provide with some 1,300 employees. You're always going to have a handful that perhaps aren't Working as hard or as effectively as they should there's going to be human error, but generally speaking I'm so proud of the staff that we have working for Sheboygan County And I know you feel the same way about the staff and the sheriff's department. You've got some new faces You've got a new inspector. You have a new emergency management director all in all How are you feeling about the team that you've got around you? I'm feeling real good. And that's a that's an excellent point You know this is the first time in 25 years that I've been at the sheriff's department that we that we have a new sheriff a New inspector and then you have the whole domino effect as a result of those promotions a new director Which oversees one of our divisions New captains and in all the way down and in addition to that we do have a new emergency government director I feel very comfortable with the people that are have assumed those positions in you're absolutely correct. We have a great Dedicated and loyal staff at the sheriff's department overall and And I think we can make some good things happen You mentioned you know with the new emergency management director emergency government director and all the heightened alert throughout the nation on Terrorism and and being prepared What is the sheriff's department done to? Prepare the community if they're if anything what happened here Well, I think the the media the news media has been pretty good about getting the word out as to What citizens can do to protect themselves? What I have directed our officers to do is just to be a little more conscious of some of our Utility facilities our transportation system Our highways look for suspicious, you know We're always looking for things out of the ordinary and suspicious activity But to just be a a little more aware of Things like that the airport, you know another facility that needs to be watched maybe a little closer What that's what I'm telling our people at the department. I think people the citizens Also need to be more aware of what is suspicious They're the best to tell, you know to be able to tell what is out of the ordinary in their particular community or neighborhood so We're encouraging them to report any type of suspicious activity but as the president has said and Governor Ridge, I don't think we need to change our lifestyle We just need to be more aware of our physical surroundings and take safety precautions if you're traveling and in things like that So a lot of information today that you shared and certainly this last subject very important to people if they have A desire to get more information from your department or have questions concerns suggestions What's the best way for them to proceed? They should call the sheriff's department at four five nine three one one two and ask for our emergency government director Melissa Johnson She is updated on a almost on a daily basis of what is going on what we need to be aware of and what the public can do to To help us and to keep themselves safe Very good. Well, thank you for being our guest today And I had the opportunity to meet with Melissa earlier this week And I think we've got a real good person in place there So I encourage people to call her if they do have questions or suggestions on behalf of the county board chairman bill gehring and myself Adam Payne We're very pleased that you joined us today and thanks sheriff Helmke for being here as well Next month. It's our intent to have Michael collard our new personnel director as our guest to talk about the many Challenges that we have in that office. We're presently negotiating with a number of bargaining groups and there's certainly our questions about increasing costs for health insurance and Areas such as that so again, thank you for joining us


ive in the conditions that we have to trust that they will be executed correctly um I do understand the parking issue and it is something that is holding me back from sort of full hardly supported seeing it I'm willing to listen to the rest of the debate at the at the moment it's whether the parking is enough to to warrant refusal I can really understand the residents concerns but I'm not quite sure if it's enough to to say no in this case thank you chair sorry councillor Richard William um thank you very much chair um two points I mean I must I do have some concerns about the scale and massing of this which is which is significantly high higher and bigger than surrounding buildings um so I think that's relevant to me as well but but my main concern about this um as I'm sure will not be a surprise for anybody is is the parking and I am very concerned about the figures in our report particularly that 0.82 figure which ignores significant uses of this site that is just looking at the hotel function um the hotel element of this and ignores all the other trip generating um parts of this proposal and and I I do think that 0.8 figure um 82 figure is is is not accurate and it's not something we should rely on the real figure is 0.49 this proposal provides 0.49 of the parking spaces that our own local plan says are needed and as we heard from the local member even with the local plan there are some you know optimistic assumptions about one space per five seats from the conference area for example but let's just take the local plan as it is that is our local plan these are our policies this is providing 0.49 um percent I'll rather you know 49 percent 0.49 of the parking spaces that are required we hear applications come before this committee again and again and again from orchard park but the residents are telling us there is a problem with parking and again and again and again we are approving planning applications which on our own policies do not have sufficient parking because of you know assumptions models and and sometimes I'm afraid to say I think magical thinking um about what's going to happen and I think we do have to take this issue seriously on the issue parking enforcement which has been raised um I I'll be honest I don't really see that as as a solution to this problem because I think you know if it turns out as I think is highly likely there aren't enough parking spaces here and people start parking on over the roads if we start finding everybody people are going to stop using this hotel so I find it bizarre really that the supposed solution from the developers is that people who are using their hotel will be fine because people will stop using their hotel we all know in reality you know I've had something to do with conference centres in the past one of the key things people ask when they're looking to book a conference at a venue is what's the parking like is there enough parking for my delegates to come and if there isn't enough parking and if people you know this hotel gets a reputation if you park on the roads you're going to get a 70 pound fine people will not book park conference spaces there and the business model will start to fall apart so I find this all a bit you know unlikely to work out in in reality that it's not really in the in the business owners interests to tell people they can't park because people will stop using the hotel so I'm not really sure um the parking enforcement is actually the solution to this when the parking is so um so woefully um inadequate so this is so far below our own local plan as I say of 49% of the car parking spaces that our own local plan says are needed I honestly don't see how we can approve this application given what the residents of orchard park have been telling us again and again and again in application after application after application thank you chair thank you uh councillor Harvey thank you chair um I just um want to make the point um I don't think this is anything to do with um something the um applicant should should be taking on board but I mean it is very frustrating that um angry water have said this will cause effectively exceedances and I just think that's um you know um a sad thing but I realise that's national planning policy um I realise angry water are legally advised to take it but I I do think it's regrettable as well to say um in terms of the um uh application overall I was so uncomfortable about the parking um because it's in a in the middle of a uh a sort of neighbourhood where parking is already under stress um so I have to go so thank you sorry uh actually I wanted to say before which I meant to say before I came back before the debate um I have actually uh I've met Colin Brown as a member of a of a parents association at IVC I've not discussed this application with him I don't know more than an acquaintance but I wanted to declare that and I'm approaching a matter of fresh um okay uh the uh sorry what is the mind alone have you got a thing on pizza fame council pizza fame please thank you chair um it seems to me there are two key issues we need to address in this debate the first is of course that the the height of this building proposed height uh over 24 metres is well above that of the SBD not necessarily out of kilter with the local plan we've seen some visual assessments and we've had officer advice on that um and it was also suggested to us uh by Colin Brown that this would provide useful noise protection from the A14 which I find quite persuasive for the community um and taking account of the visual assessments I'm satisfied that we can approve it on that that is not a grounds for a fuel so we come back to the key one which of course is the key concern of the community council as outlined by the local member too and many concerns expressed here which is that of parking um I accept that the numbers are not up to those we we specify we're moving towards or seeking to move towards lower reliance on cars and if in my view the developers can take that problem on board that is make it their own problem and the future problem for TLC management then I'm prepared to go with that I think this is a good location for a hotel that is less reliant on cars than would be the case in the past so long as the hotel TLC future management is managing that issue uh very much along the lines that Peter Sanford said uh so that if indeed and I think as as Councillor Williams said uh Councillor Richard Williams this could become a problem for the hotel's business plan well that is for them to take on board if they're finding that due to local enforcement people are not booking as they might have hoped for conferences or for events then they have to start making other arrangements and I think this will be a test of the civil parking enforcement which is now in place but that being there I'm prepared to go with approving something which has lower parking standards than we might otherwise have wished for um chair I wonder whether having asked our officers to go away for quarter of an hour to look at this issue before actually taking a vote on this it might be helpful to uh to get their suggestions um I I would agree with that there can we have uh can you feed it feed it into us what you thought thank you chair um yeah during the break we've drafted some changes to conditions as was a new suggested condition which we've just run you through so the first one we do have two options for so this is the first option that officers have drafted which relates to the travel plan and including this feedback mechanism and basically to review it um which I think was a point that uh Tam Parry was agreeable to and during the questions earlier so this was the I guess lighter touch option that we're opposing but I'm mindful there's been debate since about whether the condition more widely can be um more robust so we are setting out an alternative which members may want to consider so you might need to do a vote on which of these you prefer when we get to that point but the alternative is something um it was used at the way and found me which I think committee um discussed recently it's slightly different because obviously I've changed some of the wording but it's a bit more criteria based so it requires methods to be used to discourage private motor vehicles and arrange for sustainable alternatives how their car park is based to be distributed allocated to the users um so the different components in this case you've got park hotel hotel how the car parking will be managed and enforced so that it only occurs within designated vehicle parking bays locations how the proposed measures are to be published to potential users how the provisions of the plan will be monitored for compliance including monitor reports for up to five years following first occupation and then again the inclusion of a feedback mechanism to the local planning authority allowing for the alteration of working methods and management prescriptions so that is the second option I'll go through the remainder of the other conditions first but there might be something you want to debate as a committee about which option you prefer if at all um then there's condition 24 which is a request from council Williams in terms of adding a criteria H at this stage we've just added criteria H but the management control of litter if it's not precise enough for example in the request additional wording please let us know but we're posing that um as an amendment to that condition then this is the new condition again council reference council Williams request regarding the finishes of the building and how materials for example can impact on noise in the surrounding area and the impact that can happen to joint properties we've highlighted the british standard reference because we'd like to check with environmental health officers that um that's definitely the most up to date one but we would hope we could do that under the delegated powers outside this committee in the event that permission was granted and then finally it's less of a prescriptive wording because the section minus six won't have been drafted yet it doesn't happen if obviously permission is granted but it's to essentially include reference to the provision of w o lines as a means of parking enforcement and the contribution of five thousand pounds towards that which will be taken out of the eighty thousand pounds existing transport contribution that is in your reports that was set out by tam parry um yes yes yeah thank you chair i don't know if you want to keep your slides up or not but uh sorry okay thank you chair it was just on the last one i appreciate what you're saying that the it will be um in the 106 so we i'm assuming that we would then be voting um subject to the 106 being sorted and the checking of that um environmental standard can we just make sure that in that that there is something around just um restricting restricting vehicles as opposed to prescribing yellow lines from my experience before of this is actually there's lots of things like consultations then you've got the actual putting in of the lines themselves so if we can just make sure that that is yeah that is broad enough to um to enable it might be that actually we have to go with a different type of line which enables residents you know there it's a minefield it's not just the paint on the on the tarmac thank you councillor rigid William thank you chair this is a question of clarification really um can i just clarify that we can allocate this money in 106 but actually we're not controlling here what sort of double yellow lines there are or indeed if there are in double yellow lines because that is a matter for the game to council to decide i think we heard earlier that um the council officer suggested really they're only interested in double yellow lines on corners so i think it's important that we clarify that we might put this in 106 doesn't mean there will be yellow lines because it's not in our control to dictate whether there are or not actually ultimately yellow lines here thank you very much and now it's my turn to contribute to debate um the issue is everybody in terms of the issue of height the local the sdo for ultra park suggests a maximum height of 15 meters and the proposal here for 21 and a half meters is considerably more um the um the massing is larger than the previous proposal but not an enormous amount uh but the previous proposal was 90 and a half meters and that was acceptable and there is some benefit from having a higher height in terms of improved screening from the the 814 which of those of us who've been there know is quite a noisy um impact it's a big impact on ultra park generally the noise from the 814 so i i tend to agree with the officers that the the height um and scale is to it it is okay um the biggest impact on residents is on ankle drive but generally the um ankle drive in terms of its location facing south and it is um it's i don't think people have much impact on light perhaps a small bit in the late afternoon for the couple of houses um and the the misadiquate distance um for the um amenity so don't look over windows so i think um my view is that that's that's acceptable result of the the discussions with the design review panel and and the the relohing of the east and west wings of the building so the big the big issue um to my mind is like everybody has said is parking and whether the parking is adequate now we normally should take advice we follow advice of our especially said advisors and they say it's adequate i know we know from experience of problems in orchard park um and way what the average sort of occupancy is that's relevant than the problems that arise from peaks peaks um and we can't but there again the previous example that was quoted of the fellow's house which is a similar site development near the centre of Cambridge where only 0.25 provision is provided and i haven't noticed a particular problem i don't others have noticed a particular problem of parking over still there there are various techniques that one could control or limit parking for instance many such institutions have their own private minibus which then collects people from stations or in this instance from park and ride on it could do on on Milton road the existing the links between park park and ride and this site actually are not particularly good um you'd have to go as far away as i think long stand to get a park and ride site that could really facilitate the site but there is relatively good public transport um and so there are solutions my my feeling um is that he's very important therefore to have a review of the transport plan to see how it works if it's approved uh the particular concern needs to be taken about about coaches because that seems to be the biggest complaint upon the existing hotels in the area and so uh that can be covered again in parking restrictions uh coaches shouldn't be parking there there's normally a provision for parking for coaches outside of it overnight parking for coaches outside of the area so it's a matter of management and we would like i think that's going to be an important element in any management and travel plan to ensure that there is no overnight parking at coaches i don't think the drop off drop off is a particular problem um so considering the the um the elements the fact that we are advised that it should be sufficient with with a continuous monitoring and uh improvement of the uh restrictions if it proves necessary um my general view is that the uh and the fact that this site it conforms to previous application in general terms the previous application that's been approved so that that's the accepted sort of use of this site is also providing facilities it could be used by the local um residents though we uh can't impose controls on the price which might be an element for for this area um but it will be available so it seems to me that generally there's more benefits the benefits the balance is in favour of benefits rather than restrictions and i think i will end up voting in agreement with the officers on this one okay are we ready to go to a vote on this jerry i think we've got two alternative amendments to um condition 19 to choose between oh okay fine uh can't counsellor heather will you it was just on that point um i'm quite happy to go with the second one which is a lot more detailed um and gives if we could have it displayed i think that alternative is a better condition than sort of the adding of the wording elsewhere if if others are agreed uh can we agree to the amended condition by affirmation after we have a proposal from she hasn't had the williams i'm happy to second that we go with condition 19 alternative two and then perhaps we could take a vote on that okay uh can we go by affirmation for that agree okay um are there any other the other amendments to the uh conditions are people happy with those if we don't have a proposal that we accept the other amendments counsellor will you um if we can take more together the other amendments i'm happy to propose yes uh also for chair chair for completely for completeness i think you've got to ask the question does anyone wish to abstain and uh or against it you can't just take the affirmation as okay okay go back to the previous one uh i said after um done by affirmation has any does any wish to abstain uh okay counsellor Richard Williams does any wish to uh object no okay thank you very much now we go to the other amendments uh counsellor had the williams uh propose counsellor Peter Fain the second did can we take that by affirmation for those those uh is anybody wishing to abstain counsellor Richard Williams anybody wishing to oppose can we otherwise take it by affirmation okay thank you now we go to the the as amended uh um we go to the application uh those in favour will be accepting the uh approve the recommendation to approve those voting against will be voting to refuse the application thank you very much indeed counsellor have the williams chair can I just clarify that is subject to the so we are sort of delegating in relation to the environmental standard and the 106 so okay thank you uh thank you very much indeed okay thank you chair so by 10 votes to 1 the application is approved as amended by the committee and subject to all the details laid out in the report thank you very much uh we will now adjourn for lunch for half a uh 40 minutes at all 10 past two thank you very much indeed welcome back to the south camberchart district council planning committee on today 14th of febru the next application about eight on the agenda paper is an application in great abbington 2304804 strode H4 um 24 south road great abbington it's a single story side extension together with internal alterations the application has been reported to committee as it was submitted by relatives of an officer of the council the key issues are principle of development and the great abbington formal land settlement the officer recommendation is to approve subject to conditions and melissa and also presenting officer melissa could you present the application please uh yeah good afternoon um so as noted this application is on 24 south road in the great abbington land settlement the application is for a single story side extension um and has only been brought before members because um the applicant is relatives of a member of staff um i've got a short update in terms of um we had a late comment from great abbington parish council um who support the application unanimously but have asked for planning conditions relating to contractors parking um south road is actually private road um if you know it it's very narrow and has passing bays along and they're concerned about damage to the verge of people parking in um those bays so um the recommendation is updated to include the condition relating to just managing the contractors parking and would require compliance with that um i'll just show you share my slides so this is the site it's on the south road a south road uh this is the property just where my cursor is here these are a couple of barns the site backs onto um the agricultural settlement uh this is the rear of the property as it is it has previously been extended um the extension will get on the right hand side here just where my cursor is this being that side extension um of the property um so that's looking directly at it and that's looking at it from the front of the house um and this is a view of it um the front of the property is quite well screened it's got a very large hedge um this is the closest you can really see it from from the road um you can see the barn on the left here and the property where the extension will go over here on the right hand side so as you can see from this this photograph it will go with just a glimpse view um from from the road um officer recommendation is um approval oh sorry elevations thank you pardon so um as you can see it's a fairly small extension with a hip roof the existing property has got hips on it this plan has been updated the architect had shown these as gables and actually in reality they are small half hips doesn't make any difference at all to what was proposed that's the rear of the house with the conservatory that you saw in the original photos that I showed you and this is the extension here with a small door um facing onto the garden and front window facing onto the front part of the house as you can see from here it's this little extension here very modest in relation to the existing dwelling on balance we feel that design and scale would sustain the character and appearance of the area whilst respecting the amenities of neighboring properties all of which are quite far away from it thank you um thank you very much do we have any questions for the uh presenting officer please any clarification councillor Medro I was just wondering if you had the condition that you were recommending to show us please I did have it before bear with me a moment um a bit of a break in between bear with me a second it's going to stop sharing and then I'll reshare my screen hopefully we'll be able to see this here you go sorry technology's not my forte so this is one of our standard traffic management conditions um it's a bit OTT for an application of this scale so I've highlighted the bits I think might be relevant um the road is a private raid and the parish council has flagged that they're concerned about the verge my view is that's really a private matter but if they're encouraged not to park on the road by way of having to comply with this shouldn't be a problem any more than any other vehicle going down there and it is quite a actually surprisingly busy road for somewhere so out of the way um so it would get contracted parking being within the kerch to the site and um movements in control of all deliveries because we see no building site like this you might get some delivery vehicles as well would that satisfy you and yes I was just wondering you're saying it's a private road so I think that condition mentions adopted public highway so are we meaning if you'd be off the private road yeah as I say it would need to be tailored to the specific circumstances but if the gist of it would be these wording noting me it's a private road thank you very much um whilst anyone wants to do it just clarify for me it won't be exactly it's going to be a compliance condition that says contracted parking shall be within the kerchlet of the property and off the highway so it's just uh yeah as Matt said a tailored version of that just a simple compliance condition do we have any other questions yeah cancer Hawkins thank you chair just um private just looking at this in terms of the neighbourhood plan I note everything at cause but there's nothing about oh it's not an ancillary building is it it's an extension yes it's an extension to existing dwelling in the land settlement so in the report gone through all the particular points in the policy and it was accepted by all those those it doesn't exceed the amount of space allowance either although the house has been previously extended we've all been quite modest okay thank you okay Robbie if that's all the questions can we come we have no public speakers can we go to the debate um does anybody have contribution to debate cancer bachelor thank you chair so I mean for me anytime there's an application in the abington land settlement I'm going to look at their adopted neighbourhood plan because they have one policy in it when it's the building within the land settlement but I mean as has already been touched on we can see in 10.11 that all of the criteria for building within the land settlement has been accorded with so for me I'm completely comfortable with the application and I don't see any reason to refuse it so I'll be supporting thank you any further comments I think we can then go uh I propose then that we go to the vote secretary um just to remind you if you vote in favour you're voting to approve the application in accordance with the officer's recommendation if you vote against you're voting to refuse the application uh thank you very much thank you chair so 11 votes to none results in a unanimous vote for approval thank you very much so yeah that application is approved now we move on to item nine um at Littlington 12 uh application number 23 stroke o 3 2 3 4 stroke h ful 12 silver street Littlington the existing out buildings that have been replaced with a nissen style out building the application is being reported to committee as it's submitted by an officer of the council the key issues are design conservation impacts the opera officer's recommendation is to prove subject to conditions and john macateer is the presenting officer now john can we have your presentation please of course thank you very much chair and good afternoon councillors I'll just share my screen can I confirm you can all see that yes we can thank you john so as chair described my application is 12 silver street in Littlington which is for existing out buildings to be replaced with a single new nissen style out building I have the site location plan here on the left and overview and here on the right we have the existing uh block plan we can see silver street here and the uh main dwelling at 12 silver street here with the two existing out buildings to be demolished located here and here with no views of those visible from the public road I've included a proposed site plan which shows the proposed nissen style out building in situ here and I've also included the proposed plans and elevations of the building just a standard out building 12 meters by 7.3 the site falls with the conservation area of Littlington uh and it is in the cartilage of the listed building at number 12 but no objection was raised by the conservation officer the out building does fall outside the development framework and we have had no neighbour objections to the proposal the application would normally have been approved by officers due to the minor nature of the out building but as the chair said uh the applicant does have a connection to the council which is why it was brought before you today in my assessment the proposed out building is acknowledged to be bulkier than those that are currently on the site but would still be suitable within the agricultural aesthetic of the area the existing location already contains built form and hard standing as we've already seen the new out building would not be visible to the public no objections have been received from consultees or neighbours and no material harm has been identified and this represents the planning balance as I see it the design and scale would sustain the character and appearance of the area whilst respecting the amenities of neighbouring properties which is why we are recommending approval of this application thank you thank you um do we have any questions from members of questions of clarification from the officer so thank you just to be clear what's a nissan style building as I understand it that's how they've described that that rounded corrugated structure thank you very much any other questions I mean I I would uh ask whether the building to be constructed is going to be a re-election of an existing nissan style building or a new building it is a new building um if we look at the existing site plan currently we have um two slightly smaller less bulky um out buildings occupying more or less the same footprint they're going to be taken down or replaced with um what we've already discussed do you have any other questions of clarification very much um there are no public speakers to this application as well so um do we have uh go to the debate do we have anybody wish to contribute to the debate councilor Hanley okay um can we uh go to a vote everybody agreed my information okay can we go to the vote please yeah um two tell me I think it was wasn't it no I'm sorry I thought we can take about the mission if yeah yeah no but we need a second yeah Peter will second it yeah I'll second it somebody already had that that's what I asked you yes so two me hawkins did second it yes did it second it okay okay then we've gone by affirmation to agree to go to the vote so we go to the vote one more one more person have you pressed this one thank you darling have we lost somebody so just to clarify council hella williams declared that she would be withdrawing plan okay and as such we have 10 votes to none for a unanimous vote thank you but application is now we um come to item 10 compliance a compliance uh you know a compliance report is um Chris Grable uh the presenting officer uh are you there please to present your report good afternoon chair um the uh the contents of the report um obviously given update on the current statistics um for uh compliance um we've already had a steady start to the new year uh on on new compliance um contents have come in so we've had over 70 already uh in january um I've got a couple of staffing updates um George Meinhan uh our contractor um his contract will finish on the 28th of march um so we are unfortunately losing him um at the moment I have another officer who's off on long term six so the team are currently just sort of covering um as best as possible with some of these staffing issues that I have again um and I do have an update for councillor Williams um she asked me in the last uh committee that while she appreciated it was difficult to go ahead and re-prioritise the older cases perhaps if we could have a look to see whether um we could try and identify older cases that might be priority A cases I've had a bit of a look into this it will require the team to basically look at sort of the best part of 400 open cases and work out whether just from the descriptions whether there'd be a priority A or not um that's probably quite a time consuming process um and um it's not something I'm probably going to be able to commit to in the immediate future however I'm happy to have a chat with councillor Williams outside of the committee just to sort of you know try and work out what we can do to to try and help her with her request okay do we have any questions uh council Heather Williams thank you I thought I thought a better response um partly to that um so yes I'm happy to meet and discuss uh with you sort of any practical ways or just for us to get a bit of a steer because I think moving forward it's going to be really great but we can't forget you know that that area so happy to to meet and see what can be done yeah I will um I'll I'll give you a call um tomorrow then councillor Richard William uh thank you very much chair excuse me thank you very much chair um it's just really a question on on appendix three so case load stats so I think there are about 640 um 650 rather sorry cases open um in total with you know 400 being over nearly over six months old I suppose my question really is is is there a sort of time scale to work through those and is that a sort of unusual backlog because it seems like quite a high number of cases for a relatively small number of officers to work through um yes uh in terms of um case load numbers um I think I kind of hit on the uh on the issue late last year with um our case numbers uh for last year being just at a couple shy of 800 um and I just made the committee aware previously that um we were probably going to be significantly higher in case load for 2023 than we had uh been previously um case loads had been around the 500, 550 mark for both councils um that has gone up in part I advise that I considered that was probably due to the online reporting um that's now taking place it is easier to report a breach of planning control to the council for investigation and we have been promoting that as best as possible to um to to the public um the other thing is we're also recording more of the work that we do um we've been doing um work previously that's not been recorded we um we reply to solicitors um regarding um inquiries on enforcement notices things that things of that nature that we've we've never done before it takes time we need to be recording it and that's all included in these figures and case loads um in terms of the workload and the fact that obviously quite a lot of those are older than six months um compliance is not always a straightforward situation um my office has tried and closed files down quickly where it's not a breach of planning control or it's permitted development where it's a minor breach where whereby um it's a technical breach and enforcement action would not be uh something that would be looking to take other matters do take time to negotiate and regularize and certainly um where we take enforcement action and we receive appeals they are they are cases that will be open for a lot longer um I can't really put target dates for closures on files because it is very much a matter of the circumstances as to which you know the complaint is and what we're investigating and the way we go with things um there is there is a lot of work um I'm aware of that and we're trying to manage that as best as possible um I don't have any other questions to the councillor. Thank you chair and thank you for the report I was just interested in the executive summary point three it mentions that the details of compliance investigations are sent to members weekly I just wondered if that's happening currently I don't recall. That that is something that was told um was happening um but it's certainly something that I can can check it's been um a process that was taken place prior to my arrival and I'm not aware of any changes but we can have that checked and make sure that information's accurate and if uh if those communications are being received we will look to make sure that happens. Thank you um just a query it's about the it's in context of one enforcement matter I don't want to get into the detail of it but the the principle is that the app was enforcement for something which is determined to be permitted they're not permitted development and the applicant was asked to put in a um put in a planning application what sort of delays you normally accept in a situation like that and what is the position in terms of four year and ten year rules does the matter become active immediately that the notification has taken place so you become aware of it um I would like some clarification um in in terms of where we are um requesting an application to be submitted um if we're requesting an application that is usually because um on on the initial view of officers and that would be um obviously taken in um the planning considerations from our development control colleagues um if something's acceptable we would ask for an application to come in um generally speaking we wouldn't invite an application where development is not not acceptable but of course obviously anyone can put in a retrospective application um so we would advise if if something's not acceptable we probably wouldn't um you know look to um support such an application but of course obviously those you know those decisions are on their merits if we're asking for an application um we usually give 28 days um if if if that's going to be longer um we're asked for people to advise us obviously um if we're inviting an application and we don't receive one we need to consider whether the development in itself requires any conditions to you know that would make the development acceptable um or or not and that would sort of bring us to the conclusion of whether we're going to proceed with any further action on someone so it can delay it um like I say the 28 days is not a hard and fast rule dependent on circumstances it can be a tight deadline for applications to be made and I understand some circumstances are more complicated than others and may require agents and architects and it's just a matter of matter of the circumstances in terms of four and ten year rules they they kick in um so the four year rule at this moment in time kicks in um whereby what where the development is substantially complete so if you're building a building um your local planning authority has four years in which to take enforcement action um and then um uh if if if we don't pick that up it then becomes it comes immune um for the 10 year rule which is a change of use that would um ordinarily be when the use first commenced for 10 consecutive years um so they're they're they're the two um it doesn't those time frames do not stop for the four and ten year rule until the council takes some kind of action to stop it i.e an enforcement notice or a bridge a condition notice so a simple a simple request to putting an application doesn't doesn't end before you know within the four year period that's not sufficient it does not no thank you that's useful notice thank you um okay do we have any other questions or points of clarification thank you very thank you very much now we move on to item 11 appeals um rebecca rebecca smith is to respond uh um thank you very much indeed uh rebecca can you introduce this the uh appeal situation thank you chair apologies i don't know what i was going to do i hope you'll feel you're clear with those now not really but that's why i thought michael was going to do this one but i'm happy to do what i can while i can get a bit of a voice um unless michael wants to take over it's up to him um but um the report includes a summary that's okay um would you prefer prefer michael to take in honestly okay includes a summary apologies i'm not there in person but you can probably hear why um the report includes a summary of the decisions that we've received during january on appeals as well as the new appeals that we received to the council as well as the ever-growing appears list of appeal decisions that we're still waiting pins to have a decision on um if anybody's got any questions then i'm happy to take them away and i probably will come back to you because i've not got much voice without coughing today do we have any questions for rebecca or points to raise thank you thank you rebecca seems everybody's happy maybe i should stay at home more now that's the final item on the agenda the next meeting will be held on wednesday the 13th of march i thank you close this meeting now and look forward to meeting you again on the 13th of march thank you very much