logo. It should be under the video. I have like the YouTube store tea spring thing. I have plans for other stuff. It's just, it's a super low priority for me on the merch side of things. Oh, hope, I was using pre-prose for that. So they just have a transition. It uses browser sync, but they've said, I think they just have, I think they have like a selector, like the universal selector transition all like 300 milliseconds. So when the CSS get, like when it's injected to change, you just, it transitions everything as it's making the changes. Danielle, what size monitor, my main monitor here is a 27 inch. And then this one here is a vertical 24, maybe. Is it 24? Yeah, it must be, this one must be a vertical 24. And this one's a 27, but you can't see this one. My main, my primary screen's a 27 wide. And then that's a vertical 24. I think that's what it is. Yeah, I put, let me see if I can get the link. I haven't pushed it yet, but if you go here, that's where the code, once I end the stream, I'll push everything to there. A 3D oriented site. I should get Gary to add some animations and some fun stuff to it, actually. So get some, he has more experience with the GSAP and that type of thing. So maybe he could come in with some fun stuff like that, animate that background thing or something. Akash, element, you have to be really careful with stuff like Elementor and DV though. They make really, really, really slow websites and that's not good. I don't know what the Hertz is on them. Probably 60, I don't know at all. Lifeform 106 certificates after you're done courses. Yeah, I offer them for anyone who wants them if they finish. You just have to get in touch with me when you're done. Except for my, I don't do it for my free, like any free course I don't, but if it's a pay course I would. No, it's the main screen's 1440 and then the side one there's 1080. I had only one screen until I started doing lots of live streams on Twitch with live streaming just to have enough screen real estate for everything. I needed to have two screens. So I only had the 127 inch for a long time. I think a 32, like ultra wide would have been a little bit better just because sometimes it's a bit tight, but I was fine for coding for the longest time on one screen. The lights in the background, which ones? The color ones here or the ones, I'm pointing. There's the ones on the wall or then there's the blue one here. The blue one here is an LED strip that's just like stuck behind the shelf. The ones on the wall itself, those ones are just, they're not LEDs, they're, well they probably are. They're just white lights with a gel in front. It cost me like 20 bucks to set the whole thing up. I think the light here is probably more expensive than the ones that are on the walls there. I always say I'm gonna leave and I always do this at the end of my stream, so don't worry. I'll leave when I'm ready. Sounds like we finished the playlist that I had on. I could do some sort of collab with Gary. I don't know what I would do unless it's just more like this where he actually shows us the design. What are things that I would tell my younger you? I don't know, I think a lot, I don't know. You'll figure it out eventually. It took me a long time. I have degrees and things I haven't used and I had no idea what I wanted to do going into my mid-20s probably with my life or at least early 20s. Yeah, probably mid-20s. So like, you know, as long as I knew that I would get somewhere good eventually. The plant is some fake plant. I don't know what it is. It's a fake plant that I got at an art supply store. To developers, when should you use grid or reflex box? It depends on the layout. 100% depends on the layout. I have started using grid for more and more stuff though. So there is that. But yeah, if it's something like a navigate, it also depends on like how much the content should decide things versus I should, I'm gonna do one, I think with a navigation one time and show the differences between using grid and flexbox and why I would use flexbox for a navigation and use grid for something else. Because flex bases things a lot more on the content and then grid puts a lot more, grid you're controlling the content because the grid has everything there. I mean, you can use things like min content, max content and it will look at that or autos. But usually with grid, you're doing things that are much more controlling, FRs are a little bit in between too and FRs like a sort of saying display flex in a way. Even though the default's a little bit different, but it's more like, yeah, you have more control when it's display grid and with display flex you're letting the content sort of have, and you can get around that for sure. But something like a navigation, I'd probably always use flex whereas something more structured and rigid that I'd wanna be able to control more, I would use grid on, it's not the best, but. Thanks, Danielle. I had a few, but I think I'm a noob. I'm ignoring you because you're spamming and if you keep spamming, I'm gonna keep ignoring you or I'll put you in time out again. So I don't even know what the question is, but oh, I put you in time out because you kept asking the same thing over and over and I'd answered saying that I wasn't gonna change the font for now and that the code was available. And again, the font is here, not the font, the code is there. So it's not, I think it's easy enough to change the font that if you wanna go and do it, go for it, man. Sass or less, what should you learn? Whichever one you want. I like Sass more, it's what I have experience with. I think it's more popular. So if that matters, then Sass, but it's up to you. There's stylus too, there's, you know. Grid is fully supported, Raj. Grid has amazing support. There's no reason not to use grid anymore from a support standpoint as far as I'm concerned. Unless you, and even you need to get it to work within an internet explorer, you can. It takes a bit more work, but you can do it. There's lookup CSS tricks, grid, internet explorer. You'll find a huge, it's like a multi-part series that goes into how to do it, it's really good. So if you really need to, I know some places have still like six, seven percent of people using internet explorer. So in those cases, it's important, I guess. But I think most people have less than 0.5 percent. So like you just serve up those people a mobile experience and then, you know, you just use supports and let them get a different experience that's still functional. As long as they get to the site and it's not broken, I think it's fine. And it's gonna be so few people. Like my stats on my own site, there's no, I haven't had one visitor in the past three months who's on internet explorer. So like, I don't mind using grid. How did I start learning CSS? Hang kum, I started it before there was watching tutorials. I started learning it before YouTube and all that. So it was a long time. I was looking at code and I don't even know. It was in the nineties slash, yeah, late nineties. So like when CSS started ish, then after that, when I started taking it more seriously, it was looking at lots of, I was reading lots of blog posts for a long time and just building stuff. Cause there was less tutorial based stuff back then that I could find anyway. It was just, I would just make stuff and then do, I had lots of really bad habits and did things really badly for the longest time. And just do more and more and more and you learn more. And you, I think tutorial, I have a video. No, I don't know what it was. I might do a video on it. Where I think it's important to use tutorials when you're building things to try and learn new things and to figure out how to do something that you don't know how to do. If you're just watching tutorials all the time, you're not learning anything cause you're not gonna remember it all. And then you're just always watching tutorials. I go and make something. It's like, oh, I don't know how to do this one step. Let's, yeah, I don't know how to start. Well, let's look at a video that's covering a project and how is he starting his thing? And then, okay, I sort of, I'll pause that video now. I'll start doing my own thing. I'll start working on that. Oh, I got stuck on this next thing. How do I solve that one problem? Let's find a tutorial so I can solve that one problem. He'll make a lot more progress and things are gonna stick more when you're implementing what you're learning instead of just learning it or follow a course and go through the course. But then as you're doing the course, don't just code along, watching the screen while you're doing it cause it's not gonna sink in. You're just typing what he's typing.  You're just writing down tons of words. It doesn't really do anything. It's notes, if you're note-taking and coding along is fine, but then it should be let's delete it all, not watch the video and then see if I can do the same thing again.  I just literally did it watching him and now I can't do it without going back and seeing what he did. So then maybe you watch it and then you go, oh yeah, I forgot that one thing, pause and then try and do it again without the video. And that's how things are gonna start sinking in. David Smith, I don't have any plans for JS courses, no. There's too much good stuff coming in CSS. I have enough to talk about on that. What's my opinion on Webpack? I mean, it does what it needs to do. I don't really use it for what I'm doing, but it's fine. Grid is amazing, Benil, for responsive HTML. I have a video on, if you look at my video why grid areas are the best, you'll see a good example of it there. Joe Pedro, which one? The media query one for like the range selectors, like greater than, less than. That one looks really cool for media queries. I'm looking forward to it. I used it last week's stream, I think I did on Twitch. But I don't, it's only one browser that supports it. I forget which one. I think Angular is the hardest to learn, ciao. But I don't know Angular, so I can't say for sure. I'm not very good with React either, so.  I don't miss playing around with, I was bad with Flash, so I don't miss working with Flash, but there was cool websites and stuff back then. All right, I gotta get going. Did I use, I did play with Flash a bit, but I never got deep into it. I never got into like ActionScript or anything like that. Basic key framing things and nothing too much. Hope, yeah, it's turned, I don't mind doing a little bit of an AMA. The best way to test mobile Safari without an iPhone, get an iPhone. I wish there was another solution.  So I would say try and find a used iPhone. You don't need a brand new like $1,000 one. Go on, try and find the cheapest iPhone you can get. An iPhone 6 now, I can't imagine, is that expensive? And if it's something you need to test on, you just gotta test on that device. There's not really a way around that, sadly. Jamstack, two developers are asking me, I'm all for the Jamstack as much as possible. Using 11T is for some stuff now. So yeah, that's where my content is gonna be going for the most stuff. Sorry if I'm not answering everybody's questions, but the chat's going pretty fast. So I'm just grabbing ones that I can see. When to use Tailwind over SAS and vice versa? It depends on what you wanna do and how you wanna work. I like using SAS and wouldn't use Tailwind just because I'm not a fan of the way, like the workflow. So if it's something you like, then go for it. And depends on the project and what the team is working with and your own thing and all of that. So plus one on Ravi's question. I didn't see Ravi's question. I don't see, oh, can we, yeah, I'm working on one. I am working on a SAS course. I had to stop recording. I did like three videos and then had to stop because I've had a really bad cold for the past 10 days now. And it's, I don't know if you can still hear it, but even like I'm blowing my nose constantly during the day and my nose was super blocked. I had, this is the longest I've talked for a long time and I'm actually, it's making me feel like I can get back into recording the course now because I'm feeling pretty good. So I'll start progress on that soon again. I'm new, but my skilled at JS enough to get things done. I don't do a lot of JavaScript content because it takes me like five times longer to do it over CSS content. Cause CSS content, things like this, this was a little messy just cause it was live and I wasn't super planned out. But first most CSS content, like I don't need to research very much. I do research everything I'm doing and some things take more research than others, but I have like a strong enough base that I generally know I'm doing best practice and don't have to worry too much about like making fatal errors or just showing something that's really bad. Whereas with JavaScript, I can get things to work, sure, but I don't know if it's like the optimal way of doing something. And if I'm teaching something, it just takes me a lot more time to make sure I'm doing it properly than I'm following best practice to plan everything out to like make sure that it's a really good tutorial instead of being something that's just like hacking something quickly together that sort of works. So I get there in the end, it just takes me forever to make tutorials based on that. So I tend not to do tutorials on that. And I don't like going into the very basics of JavaScript just because I find there's lots of really good content on the very basics of it already. And I don't know, it's kind of boring to me to talk about on the really basic stuff. So, but I do have some content on it, right? It's been a while. I think the last thing I did was my intersection observer tutorial. When should we move from static site generators from plain HTML site? Is it necessary? It depends on what you need to do. If it's something that, like if you have a blog, if you have dynamic content at all, like it'll be updated regularly, then yeah, I think a static site generator makes a lot of sense. So that could be like new posts every now and then. It could be other stuff like that. I can't think of any good, like even on my site, like my courses page, my courses page gets updated. I add new courses whenever I have a new course. It's automatically done just through like a markdown file that I add a new markdown file and it's done automatically. I don't have to build out each card every time. I even, now I don't even do that. It's with a CMS. So I just go in the CMS, choose a few things, put a little description box and it publishes it for me or my articles, same thing. So if you need content like that, then a static site generator makes sense. You need a four page site that's never gonna change. Is it worth setting it all up? It's up to you. I think they're still good to learn, but I don't have a course on CSS Grid. A lot of people have been asking for one. So I will eventually Surumegi, but I don't have one yet. A website to improve CSS skills. I mean, YouTube tutorials, there's, CSS tricks has lots of good, it depends where you are in your journey, I guess. If it's more beginner content, it's a little different. If you're comfortable, I mean things, even if you go to last week's video that I put up where I was looking at resources to learn from, there's some really good stuff there that can help you improve your skills through practicing projects. So that might be my answer for now. There's also like Flexbox Zombies, Grid Critters, Flexbox Froggy, like things like that for like specific things like Flexbox or Grid. Is just awesome, is using Gap and Flexbox a good idea. Now that support is here for Safari, it should be fine, in my opinion. Again, it depends with Internet Explorer, I guess. Yeah. I don't really recommend a specific CMS Artemis just because I don't know what your needs are. So, source for normalizing CSS. I use Andy Bell's Modern CSS Reset these days. That is like a reset. That's, and if you look at, if you just put Andy Bell Modern Reset, you'll probably be the first result. Thank you, Ardash.  It does the job for what I need. It's really, really simple, but I'm a one-man show, so it works perfectly for me. Otho, Lester, what are my skills? CSS, or CSS, and helping people learn. I think my main skill is helping people be less frustrated with CSS. That's my superpower. Slow loading problems in CSS. I don't tend to have slow loading problems in CSS. Usually, slow loading is caused by other things than CSS, unless you're up to some really crazy stuff. Slow loading is usually caused by fonts, by images, or by JavaScript. So if you're doing, like, hopefully you're only loading your JavaScript. And after, fonts are one of the biggest killers. Self-hosting your fonts instead of using the Google font. Even if it's a Google font, download it, self-host it. It's gonna be a bit faster. Only bring in the font weights you need. You really wanna reduce the size of your fonts. Like, fonts can be real killers. They can also have big impacts on content shifts. So to watch out for that. You could also, like, you can do critical CSS.  If you're really new, I wouldn't jump into it. But if you do critical CSS, it's like a plug-in you can use with your sites. There's different ways of using it, depending on how you set things up. But the idea is that this CSS, you need to render your above-the-fold content is all inline styles. So that means it's not gonna get delayed by having to load in the entire CSS file or your fonts or other things. All those inline styles means that is instantly pretty much painted.  But you don't wanna manually doing that to nightmare, right? Like, you'd never wanna do that manually. So you'd wanna use something like critical. There's a few different tools, but critical CSS is the one I know. So that could be something on helping your CSS performance out. I'm looking smart today, thank you Rohit. I did Daniel, I did a table layout. I tried to do a table layout as a challenge on Twitch a while ago, and I'm never doing that again. That was a disaster. Rov... Rob-shin? Rob-shin. For layout design and choosing colors, choosing colors I have a video on that I think is pretty to the point and very simple.  I think the best thing to do is just copy what other people are doing and then learn from that. Francisco, hi, thank you for coming and joining. Is it worth learning jQuery in 2021? I wouldn't put it at the top of my priority list. If you're gonna be in a position where you have to maintain old projects, you'll definitely run into it. If you're working at a startup, you'll probably never use it. So it depends on what you wanna do and the types of work you're doing. Dachshin... Dachshin-merthy? Do I use Angular or just go with, I just do HTML or, I mean, I'm using, as I said before, I'm using 11T, which is a static site generator. So I'm using other templating languages that are HTML templating languages. So it's a little bit different, but yeah, that's what I tried to do as much as possible. I don't know Angular, so I don't use Angular. Is using Bootstrap recommended? I'm not, I don't. I see, for anything like Bootstrap, like Tailwind, I think they're good tools for what they need to do, but it depends on what you need to be doing. And if CSS is something that you struggle with and is an important part of your job, then I would recommend learning CSS and worrying about the, learn CSS and then worry about all the frameworks and libraries and all that stuff after. If CSS is like you do 10% of the time or 20% of the time and you just need to get enough to get something to work, then things like Bootstrap or Tailwind, if you're using them properly, especially like Tailwind, if you're using like the just-in-time thing they have, you'll see it's JIT, so it's just-in-time, so like it helps with your workflow a little bit, but then also using the purge CSS at the end so you don't end up with this giant CSS file for some minimal file, like you're following their documentation, you're doing it properly to have a small CSS file at the end. It can be a very useful tool and it maybe you don't need to learn all of CSS because it's not a big part of your job. If that's the case, then use those tools, it's fine. If CSS is a big part of what you're doing, then you probably want to learn CSS and then if you know CSS really well, those other tools are much easier to learn and use. You just, Omar, you just got to build stuff. Work on projects. Sagnic, I don't know any backend, no. I won't say I don't know any backend, but I don't know any, I don't know enough backend to talk about it. Let's say it that way. I mean, David, the thing for me for the Internet Explorer, like I'll use that supports for certain things just so it doesn't get included in that, which is your feature queries. And then I focus primarily on, like for Internet Explorer, as long as they get like a minimum viable experience, I'm happy. Like they don't need the finished layout in my world. If you're in different situations, it's a little bit different, but hopefully most people don't have to worry about it anymore. Yeah, tables are terrible and table layout fixed. Table layout fixed, I don't know what that, what's table layout fixed to? I haven't, you'll notice I don't have any tutorials on using tables and styling tables. There's a reason for that.  They're a nightmare. Making them responsive is just so hard. Yeah, I use GeoCities, definitely use GeoCities, but having a timer or not a timer, the counter to know how many people visited your site, start twinkling star background, I was all over that stuff. Eliac, yeah, I mentioned it a bit more before, so I won't talk too much, but I did, I do know JavaScript. I'm just not an expert in JavaScript. Century ago, I'm not that old yet, am I? How do I chill between coding projects? My kids take a lot of my time. It's not necessarily chilling, but I have my kids and my family that I spend time with. I brew my own beer, started that up again, like maybe two months ago. I do, I don't know, I like picking up hot hot, learning new hobbies and just like learning enough about it and then just finding a new, some other hobby. With the family more, like with my wife will watch Netflix and stuff. I don't watch a lot of TV on my own just because I don't have a lot of time for it. I rather do other stuff most of the time. Like at lunch, when I'm eating, I'll usually put something on and then it takes me forever to get through anything just because I only spend like 20 minutes at lunch and then I'll go for a walk or something before I go back to work. Jacques, you missed the challenge. Sorry, we've transitioned to AMA mode because I'm supposed to be gone and eating my lunch now, but I'm still chatting around here. Well, you'd be doing front-end mentor challenges. Yeah, I did one a while ago, but I'll probably do more of them. Nikhil, yeah, have fun with it. With Tailwind, I've never used Tailwind for that. I haven't done a lot of deep exploration with Tailwind. It's why I don't like commenting on it too much, but I just never got in what I did do because I wanted to have experience with it so I could at least comment on it. I get why people like it and it's just not my cup of tea but if it helps with that, I could see that being nice. Hamad, why does content move out of the parent when you use Flex? If Flex by default has FlexWrap on and if FlexWrap is on and the content is bigger than the parent, it will overflow out the side of the parent. So either putting FlexWrap on or it could just be that your parent is too small. I don't know, I'd have to see the situation specific, but my lunch, I don't even know what did I have for supper last night. Oh, I made pizza last night. So I'll be having some pizza for lunch. I need to start my own brewery now. My beer is not that good. Maybe once I get a bit more practice. What else do I do apart from this YouTube channel? Nowadays, I do this, I make courses, I try and learn as much as I can about CSS and all the new things happening with CSS and well, I mentioned a few other things, but this is my job now, if you mean for that. I do a little bit of, I've actually just turned down a few contracting things because I don't have the time for it, but I used to be a teacher. I was working full-time as a teacher for six years. Before that, I was freelancing, making websites, and I was also a designer, so a little bit of stuff. And even when I was teaching, I was freelancing for a while too. What is my SaaS build workflow? I'm gonna have a video on that. It's kind of hard to just talk about it. So I will do a video talking about it though in the future.  For me, it's easier to keep up with because this is my focus, like literally. If you're working full-time, it's a little bit harder to be keeping up and working full-time. When my job is to teach people about it, it makes it a little bit easier. How do you avoid overflowing grid even when parent has a fixed height? I wouldn't give anything a fixed height and then you don't have to worry about overflowing grid. I don't give things fixed heights. That's my main thing because the content can shift and change and everything. So Eliac, yeah, I have some content on YouTube for XT and Figma. I haven't used them a ton. I haven't used XT in a while actually and Figma, every time I go, ever since they changed it, they've updated stuff. I'm just so lost in there now because I don't use it enough for big screens or focus on max. I mean, yeah, you don't want to make things for responsiveness, like after a certain size, devices are gonna cheat sometimes in how they display websites and stuff. So if you're putting something on a TV, it's often not just taking this little 1440 thing on a 50-inch screen. It actually acts as a zoom feature on it a little bit. So I wouldn't stress too much. Anyway, guys, I gotta go use Sassan. I use Sassan probably 95% of my projects. If I'm working on a project, it's usually with Sass actually, Michael. Tutorials, I'll do CSS, just because I want to focus on what we're learning in that tutorial and not worry about how Sass is working. But if it's an actual project, there's just so many nice things. And I don't rewrite all my mixins in media query. Like in this one, I started with a template, or not a template, I started with stuff in place, but that's because that's what I start with every time. I don't rewrite that ever. I just take it from what, I have a starting repo that I use as a template. I'll be doing a YouTube video on that eventually, actually. With material UI, Mansuri, I don't know, because I don't use material UI. If it's inside a grid, I would just do an align item center, and they should center themselves. Or an align content, depends on how you need it centered. All right, I gotta run my favorite sport. My favorite sport to do, I said I'm gonna run, and then my favorite sport is to watch on TV, would be American football, or maybe hockey, depends. My favorite, I'm in Montreal, so my favorite team is Montreal Canadians, which are a hockey team. By far, easily my favorite team to watch. My favorite sport, like I was gonna pick a random game, and sit down and start watching it, and I don't care about the teams, then it's American football. Hockey, I feel like I'm more invested in the team. Formula One as well, I'm a big fan of Formula One. It's probably the one I watch the most, actually, and it's the only one I'm watching a lot of these days, since the season started again. My favorite sport to do would be skiing. That's probably the only sport that I do. But, yeah, I need to go eat now, so I'm gonna see you guys all next time. Thank you guys all for coming and hanging out for me. This video will be available when I go offline. I don't know how long it takes for YouTube to process it, but as soon as I hit stop, it should be public, but it might take a while for YouTube to process, and then eventually it will be available. But, yeah, I'm gonna head out. I don't have an end screen anymore. I haven't been streaming on YouTube, so I cleaned up my OBS. I keep forgetting that I'm there on the screen, because usually we get the nice background that's there. I don't have an end screen, so I can change this one one second. I'm still here. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, everyone. See you next time. There we go. And we can get some music going in, and I am off to eat. Have yourselves all a wonderful afternoon and or evening or wherever it is for you guys. And yeah, bye.


Over to you to tell us how we're going to get this good job economy Thank you. Thank you, Torsten and to the resolution foundation for having me here Thank you for for coming and all of those online who are we're listening and watching So Torsten promised more than what I'm going to deliver I'm sure you would have guessed that I Don't know how to create a good jobs economy. In fact, I feel that This is something that is is relatively unprecedented given The changes in technology and the world economy. I think it's there are not Examples we can draw on and the kind of direction that I'm going to try to push you towards Is really something that I'm drawn to Not because there is anything particularly attractive about this orientation But because of a process of elimination that is sort of, you know rule and ruling out much easier much more attractive and tried and tested Kind of strategy of the past so that that is really a kind of a process of elimination that gets me to a point to say Okay, you know, we need to have this kind of a focus that's going to have all kinds of difficult and untested implications for policy and Intent and it doesn't look like anything that that we're really doing including What's happening in the United States and I'll talk about that also So I don't want to bore you with a lot of stuff that you know This is this Here so if I hold this like this, okay that you know Britain is suffering from a Kind of a product productivity problem in the aggregate But the port of it that I'm mostly concerned about is in terms of what it means for the quality of jobs for the middle and lower middle classes If you look at the last 40 45 year period those kinds of jobs have tended to do not so well in most advanced economies Definitely in the United States, but also to some extent in the UK That's important because if you want to build middle-class societies that sort of having jobs not just for the most skill but also for the Intermediate skill people in in your economy is extremely important Dimension in the in the UK which sort of overlaps But it's not exactly one and the same in terms of this overall Inequalities of economic opportunity and jobs is the kind of very high levels of regional inequality in in in in the In the UK so that outside London and the southeast The problem of good jobs is also the problem of scarcity of good jobs in many other parts of the UK in other Cities where productivity has been has been lagging So if we're talking about a prosperity that's not going to be limited to a relatively few people if it's kind of an enhancement in Productivity that we will hope it will trickle trickle down, but in reality may not So an economy that emphasize inclusive prosperity is going to require a focus that is not just productivity but also more productivic jobs for the bulk of the labor force as well And that requires us really to address inequality In in in where it's created in in in terms of you know, what kind of jobs are are created? What kind of skills people have? And Since my emphasis is on good jobs. I should all say you know make clear that even though pay Is a very big part of it. It's not the only thing and I think sort of you know We all know that you know jobs matter a lot more than simply the income it sort of it in many ways Defines us who we are and having jobs that that not only pay well But in entail a certain amount of dignity autonomy Ability to progress and develop and so forth is is all part of of of the good jobs a story So I'm not aware of any of these indices for the UK and there's probably are some but in the United States there's a wide variety of Quantitative indicators that have been developed that that sort of do this some of them are based on Attitudinal surveys and then surveying workers and asking them what do they care for and of course always pays a big part But they care a lot about flexibility automation how they treat it on the job as well other Measures are based on sort of objective indicators of jobs and the OECD actually has a cross-country database I assume Britain is actually include is include on that That has statistical indicators of earnings labor market security and the quality of the working working environment So this this in other words I mean the notion of a of a good job could be quantified and made more precise and in fact one element of Emphasizing good jobs would be to have indicators that you can actually track And I think investing in that is obviously part of this so Now What is the good job? Industrial policy connection I think a lot of the discussion on good jobs tends to focus on a number of Dimensions where Where I think the kind of gains that we can make are sort of limited Probably the first thing that people focus on when we talk about good jobs is Focusing on the supply side of labor market is the quality of skills and training and education So, you know said people want good jobs. They need to have better skills and used in order to access better labor markets A second level might be to say well, we need to have you know regulation standards and and And the third might be to say well, let's improve the bargaining power of workers through unions or sectoral bargaining and things like that and And and a final line of argument which you hear probably a lot more in the US than I imagine It's in the UK. It's the argument that is actually is in the interest of employers To offer good jobs Because by offering better jobs you get more motivated employees that that you know quit less Frequently and therefore you reap the benefits of these, you know better jobs in actual an actual productivity on the job And therefore that's actually a profit-enhancing strategy. So if that was true, of course, you don't need to do You know any sort of have any minimum wages or labor bargaining in fact the people who argue for that Tend to be against unions because they they sort of feel that this should be all businesses God doing this on their own for therefore for the for the for Self-interested reasons and I think the reason that that these are sort of remedies that are limited is well first, I mean our number one two and three You know remedy which is always training and and education. Well, that's yes. Yes. Yes, but it's always You know, it's always a solution to the future never really a solution to the short short run And I think you know my colleague at the Kennedy School Ricardo Hausman says that you know the the the purpose of an economic strategy is to create jobs for the people you have Not for the people you wish you had and and and so that's really about you know the the fact that training Investment education skills all of that. I'm not I don't want to de-emphasize that at all because I think that's definitely a key part of this, but it can't be the entire strategy There are some evidence from work by A Stansbury and company that suggests that in fact is sort of wide regional gaps in productivity Persists even after your control for education in the UK. So even there it's clear that even, you know, that may not be the Soul the entire problem suggesting that there is something also happening on the demand side of labor markets that the the productive ecosystems that create more productive jobs aren't in Present in the rest of the country. So it's not just going to be skills in education And of course we have these other counter arguments about how you know, simply having higher minimum wages You know runs pretty clearly pretty quickly into a kind of trade-off between creating jobs versus In incumbents having relatively high wage and of course France is a clear example of a country that has run into that kind of a trade-off with very high youth unemployment rates and high wages for those who do have wages And also for the high the high road argument I think it's clear that that might be true for some employers, but it's really not an Argument that that holds its way for the entire labor market Okay, so I think that all is again, but you know, this is my process of elimination So it's saying where is this you know taking us? Well, it has to be that if you want to be able to provide good jobs for the bulk of the labor force It has to be by enhancing sort of productivity that you know You have to have more productive jobs for the workers that you do have and the likely to have in the short to medium 10 So how do you do that? And I think this is where The industrial policy connection comes in because industrial policy is about increasing productivity That is by fostering innovation and structural change towards more productive activities I'm not going to go into the long-standing debate about the efficacies of industrial policy I'm happy to talk about it but I would argue that even the economics profession is going through a kind of a Change of attitudes towards industrial policy from I would say extreme hostility to less extreme hostility right now the But and here is again the sort of the crux in order we hit another problem Which is that when we talk about sort of how we talk about industrial policy today So I've talked to you how when we talk about good jobs and labor markets How that cannot be the full story, but when we talk about industrial policy that's also our current discussion is leaving important things out because Today the discussion about industrial policy or industrial strategy certainly in the United States, but also gather in the UK really focuses on things like Manufacturing on supply chains on the green transition on attaining global competitiveness, right? and None of these actually have Good jobs at the center Even though for example in the context of the chips act in the United States That's also listed as one of the objectives But one of my points here is going to be in fact There's one point I want you to take away from my presentation is that good jobs is going to require its own Industrial policy that it cannot be tagged on as an objective on existing industrial policies whether it is You know advanced semi conductors and manufacturing is in the case of chips or it is the green transition Those are that that you cannot kill kill all the birds With with one or two stones that and right now really at least in the case of the United States And I believe that's true also in the UK We don't have a coherent policy that is targeting green jobs Good jobs directly So the reason that I think none of this is really in the US is really targeting good jobs Fundamentally is because the bulk bulk of the jobs of the future will not be in Manufacturing or in semi conductors The green transition itself is not a net job creator. It'll destroy a lot of jobs It'll create some jobs in other places But that's not really on its own unless you make green good jobs and objective in and of itself It's it doesn't address the problem Okay, so this again is you know, do you notice the process of Manufacturing losing jobs, you know, UK has been one of the sharpest The industry the industrializing countries, but that's it's really common even Germany as the industrialized in the employment terms most of the jobs actually are in in in services retail leisure and hospitality and other Areas and when you look at sort of which countries have actually in you know done well in manufacturing You know, this is for a bunch of countries how they've done in terms of manufacturing output versus manufacturing employment even countries like South Korea this work. I'm not sure it works, but Point good idea. So like take the South Korea for example is it's in at constant prices Manufacturing share and value added has continued to climb and it remains very high But look at what's what's happened to the employment share in manufacturing So even when you manage to experience output reindustrialization It's very very unlikely that you will experience employment industrialization. We see this actually happening today in the United States So if you look at You know, what's happening to as a result of chips and the IRA So this concerted efforts at rebuilding industrial activity in in the United States Whether it's semi conductors advanced manufacturing or or or or batteries or electric vehicles These are actually very very capital and skill intensive industries. So what you get is actually no after 2022 you get significant increase in investment in Manufacturing if you look closely at manufacturing output You can convince yourself that even manufacturing output in the United States has bounced back Up, but you know employment is steadily and unhappily Trending downwards. There's no effect employment that you can actually see and I'm afraid that's going to be the the the the The general picture that we on with respect to the objective of creating good jobs in manufacturing And that sort of manufacturing is where we're supposed to have those good jobs being created under chips and IRA That's simply not going to happen. Okay. So the bottom-line diagnosis of the problem is that The central problem of our the inability of our labor markets to create sufficient productive jobs Will not be addressed as a byproduct of Sort of our traditional approach to industrial policies or the approach that has been taken in the United States right now And therefore we need an industrial policy that's going to put job creation Front-on-center And that's who is going to have a certain elements is going to focus on the demand side of labor markets in addition to the supply So I'm not saying let's ignore skills and investment in training But he'll have to focus at least as much on the demand side that is creating the positions the firms That are offering productive employment opportunities is going to be focusing mostly on services And in manufacturing and higher productivity is going to be the sine qua non for being able to offer to those those jobs in addition of to you know standard Protections in labor markets and labor market institutions Okay, so if chips and IRA in the US is not a good model What might be a good model? It's actually something that very few people have heard of and it was in The first package that the Biden administration passed. It was the American recovery program And hidden there and it's hidden because it's actually tiny Hidden there was a something called a good jobs challenge But you need to sort of you know they put in the in the context that you know chip subsidies Of the order of several tens of billions of dollars and the IRA itself when you put in the tax credits Really is going to be running Latest estimates into hundreds of billions of dollars and and and so 500 billion dollars is really really You know tiny But the concept itself is what I really you know find very appealing and I think it's it's it's kind of an It's it's a very different approach of how to do this and the idea for the these This good jobs challenge together with another one that I think is also 500 million dollars Which was a regional challenge that is the idea to part to incentivize Through resources at the federal or national level to to incentivize the creation or the strengthening of local cross-sectoral partnerships With the idea of developing local economic development strategies that bring together worker training skills formation entrepreneurial assistance financial And credit assistance business plan assistance so in other words various tools of business development as well as Skills investment around the kind of a concerto strategy and the idea was that these local coalitions would then bid for this national Resources and then they have and the the and the national resources But are both an enabler for these plans to be carried up, but they're also kind of a of a of a carrot to to incentivize the creation of these cross-sectoral Solutions as well where where they did not exist now, of course because the problem is you know Because the incentive or the carrot was so so tiny I don't think it will it will do much, but I think it got the basic Problem, right? I mean the basic approach right that that many of these problems as in the UK are have a very sort of Local or regional dimension. It's not going to be sold by action at the federal or the national level Even though that might be the framing legislation or the framing approach might come from the from the top You need instruments to incentivize what has to has to be cross-sectoral Partnerships that will bring together which two silos which really operate quite independently In the United States one of which is skills training and workforce Development and the other is really business and entrepreneurship attraction and development They's literally and the only place where it works is when you have very entrepreneurial Government leaders or entrepreneurial sort of private sector leaders that essentially provide the act of coordinating this Okay, so this will I'm going to run through the rest of my slides. How long have I talked now? After it's very speedy so far I don't know how much is it, 10 minutes? Yeah, okay, that's fine. That'd be great. So how will you know sort of, you know differ from the standard ways in which we talk about industrial policy and of course This is you realize I'm saying industrial policy, but you realize I'm not talking about industry anymore, right? And that's one of the things about terminology So the traditional approach really focuses a lot on subsidies and tax incentives So chips and IRA are based on these subsidies and tax incentives and and and and the idea is That you're trying to internalize externalities and the economic rationale is clear But when you look at actually the the real kind of problems that you're trying to solve when you're dressing these good jobs problems, it's really much more complicated than simply, you know Internalizing a well calibrated or well quantified externality. There's a lot of uncertainty. There's a lot of discovery That needs to take place. So you need a much closer sort of iterative relationship between the various Stakeholders so rather than emphasizing subsidies tax incentive direct financial incentives the this approach would actually Focus on providing a portfolio or a variety of Public inputs, whether it's training business services Greenfield land regulatory forbearance technology assistance whatever Is needed in a way that's going to be precisely customized to the needs of of the users and So I think here are some examples From from from Britain. I think Where if you try to sort of see is how much of this is taking place in the US This takes place quite haphazardly in localities that have got their act together I didn't quite see Sort of obviously There might be some cities where this is being done better than others But some of the new initiatives for example to do these investment zones Are supposed to focus explicitly on these local efforts and these cross-sectoral partnerships But they do not have good jobs as a is a clear focus on sort of what is it that we're trying to do The this is I guess the agency for research and in what is it the Research and investment age agency Innovation research invention actually it is invention Somebody I think we should all right. So it's you're showing me up People are getting nervous with the audience that we're going to ask them next But that also I think is is a kind of potentially Doesn't emphasize so Governance, I think we need to think somewhat differently. So again, you know sort of economists idea of how you carry out You know industrial policy is a kind of a top-down approach where in fact you explicitly keep The firms and the recipients of public assistance at bay because if you actually interact with them You're going to be the ideas you would be gamed and and and firms would you know, you would be successfully seeking grants but in fact because these The problems you're trying to solve are complex and there's a lot of information that needs to be revealed about Where the constraints are how things are working and so forth and often The firms that are going to be employing people have much better information than the agencies that are providing the assistance And therefore you need a relationship that's not going to be top-down. It's going to be much more one of collaboration and iteration Where sort of there's a process of Goal-setting and discovering what the missing public inputs are Coordination extremely important conditionality is soft rather than hard because doing hard Conditionality is very difficult when there's a lot of uncertainty And and so you don't punish recipients on you punish recipients only when there is they're clearly acting in bad faith You know basically taking the resources and not doing anything And I think these kinds of off of practices already exist both at the Successful sort of local partnerships and in the variety of settings in the United States But also very significantly at the national level when you look at agencies like DARPA or the various, you know Copies in other parts of of the US innovation space that actually aria Is meant to copy that actually is precisely the operating mode for how this operates What's targeted would be different of course as for reasons that I've already stated so the traditional approach tends to focus on manufacturing on big firms Sort of these national champions that are sort of the most productive segments of the economy to Make sure they remain competitive on global markets Whereas I think when you think about where the jobs are going to be they're going to be mostly in services They don't going to be created mostly Firms of a smaller size than your large national champion. So SMEs is going to be a big part It will tend to be the medium productivity activities in the economy because they're not the most You know productive, but you know also not very much job-generating Firms this is where the jobs for the lease skills are likely to come from so that's where you need to target these kinds of activities tradeable services in Britain, I think are going to be Very important as a couple of very nice studies that the resolution foundation has done on Many of maybe some of the authors are here on Manchester and Birmingham, which really makes a very strong case You know basically says the manufacturing is not going to come back. That's not where this serve But these tradeable services are very important I'm not entirely convinced by these reports that we will not have to pay a lot of attention to other Sort of local services as well Which are sort of you know industries I care Retail education and the reason for that is that these are still where the bulk of the jobs are going to be created in the future And I think if you focus only on the tradeable services on Accounting and IT and and and and finance You know those are going to be there their ability to create jobs for the vast majority of the British labor force Is really limited so again you run into this problem Or are you creating jobs for the you know top 10% of the of the workforce at up to 15% and where will the You know, you know worldly the productive jobs for the rest come from so I don't think you can avoid just quantitatively This problem for addressing this now. We don't know how to address productivity issues in these kinds of sectors but we have you know some Kind of ideas that even where sort of technologies are concerned that we know that that firms tend to have a variety of of You know technological possibilities some of whom are directed at replacing workers Some of them are could be focused or targeted on on making workers actually both more productive But when it's without necessarily diminishing demand for them because they Multiply the number of tasks these workers can do so that the the the the key to creating Jobs that are both more jobs and more productive jobs in these service industries is to find technologies That are going to increase the tasks that people that that people can do and that you know happens through By essentially using new technologies that increase the possibilities of Providing these services in a way that's much more customized to different groups of customers So education sort of you know Targeting education According to the different learning leads or learning styles of different subgroups of workers You know that is is one way that that you can make education both Services both more productive without necessarily increasing lower now reducing the demand for teachers because They are why the range of tasks that they can perform that obviously in in care and in in medical services Also retail. There are some sort of business school type case studies on all of these things So these are things that already exist the problem is that we have because you know We don't take the direction of technological change as something that is actually something in part we can control We haven't spent a lot of time thinking about these issues like aria isn't thinking about this even though It's investing in innovation technologies, but doesn't necessarily You know from what I understand going to focus on how can we make Technologies serve people rather than you know let technology go in any direction that firms and innovators want and then worry about What the implications for labor markets are? Okay, so So I mean the basic no So, you know, so the basic quid pro quo that this kind of approach to industrial policy implies for for firms Is is a kind of a you know This this is putting in the in the in the terms of a kind of a social contract that firms need a variety of public services and inputs and and and and those You know go all the way from you know skilled workforce to business services The ecosystem basically that they don't necessarily Develop on their own and then governments in turn need firms to internalize these good jobs Externalities sort of what happens to communities when good jobs disappear and the consequences of the erosion of the middle class So that's ultimately the kind of quid pro quo or the social contract that the type of Industrial policy I'm describing is meant to operationalize, okay, so I just a summary of what's I think the This new type of industrial policy Requires compared to sort of standard ways of thinking about industrial policy, but let me just end here by By just summarizing the key points, which is that you know, we are really in a kind of a different World, I mean we knew in the past how to create middle-class societies that went through, you know industrialization manufacturing, you know and workers organizing getting you know a variety of rights and good labor market institutions and so forth but we're obviously left that world world behind and we haven't fully confronted the realities of the requirements of that new world and in particular that productivity dissemination of productive employment in Services is going to be the key and that is going to require policies to work on both sides of the labor market It's not simply, you know Skills and training it's also about the demand side creating good firms because ultimately good jobs can only be Offered by by good firms and this is really in the end sort of my my dilemma And I think our societal conundrum is that it leaves us with a very kind of a Difficult and unprecedented Kind of an approach that has elements of industrial policy because it is targeting You know productive structural change in the way that industrial policy traditionally has but with very different targets with very different governance arrangements with very different Priorities and but that's what I think we need to spend a lot more time thinking about it So if I've done if I've managed to get you to think that this is real problem That's worth spending a little bit of your time then I've succeeded. Thank you. Thank you, Danny