Seeing that we have a quorum of the Council President calling the meeting to order at 6.30. There are a couple of announcements that we just want to bring to your attention. First of all, there will be a public hearing of the Finance Committee, although the entire town council is also called together that night on April 4th at 6.30 p.m. in the town room. The purpose of that public hearing is the look at the regional school budget. And I believe the superintendent will be with us that evening. Thank you. I would just want to call to your attention that at the same time, actually starting at 7 o'clock that evening, is a forum on smart growth. Is it right for Amherst? This is a forum of the town, not the town council, although we certainly support it. And while the council totally supports this forum, we're asking that councillors come first to the hearing on the school budget, since it's the point in time where we will have the most robust discussion. And then we're asking that if they would like to go on to the forum, they do so afterwards. There will not be any vote on Thursday night the 4th. The vote will then take place at the Finance Committee and then come back to the full committee, to the full council on either April 22nd or 29th. I did have a request from one of the public to discuss the difference between public hearings and public forums. And rather than go into that with this full audience, I actually have to say that the Rules of Procedure Committee has been discussing this and we will come forward with additional definition that may clarify what is already in the charter. But let me just mention very quickly, one distinction is that the public forums require that half of the time be spent with the public sharing with us their thoughts. And public hearings do not have that requirement, but nevertheless there is still an opportunity for a public question and comment back and forward. So finally, the announcement, the final announcement then is that as we did on March 18th, I will be changing the order of the agenda to accommodate parents and teachers regarding the statement of interest to the Mass School Business Authority. Therefore after general comment and proclamations and commemorations, we will take up agenda item 7b. So moving on to general public comment, we are going to have a number of times where there is public comment tonight. Those will include items 7a, b, 7c, and d. If you care to comment on something besides those four items which include various requests regarding the public way, would you please show your hand now? Okay. Then we're going to move on. So proclamations and commemorations, Becky Michaels, are you here? Thank you. Okay. Would you like to come forward? Please. And if you would like, you could read the proclamation and then we will have a vote on it. I don't actually have a proclamation. Okay. Then I have one, coincidentally. Okay. Okay. This is a proclamation and recognition of the 25th anniversary of the Amherst Education Foundation. Whereas Amherst Education Foundation was founded in 1994 by a group of concerned citizens who were committed to promoting students, educational equity, supporting diversity, stimulating excellence, and mobilizing broad community support for public schools. And whereas Amherst Education Foundation has provided our public schools with hundreds of thousands of dollars in grant funding since its founding. And whereas the Amherst Education Foundation has improved the educational experience of thousands of students by supporting teachers, staff, and administration of our public schools. And whereas strong public education is central to a thriving community and a thriving community is central to strong public education. Now, therefore, it is resolved that the town council of the town of Amherst in the common wealth of Massachusetts do hereby recognize 2019 as the 25th anniversary of the Amherst Education Foundation and honor its mission in support of Amherst area public schools in providing a challenging and enriching educational experience that maximizes the learning potential of every student and prepares them to succeed in the 21st century. And then it will be signed upon vote by the president of the council. Would you like to speak to this and to your event coming up? Sure. Hi everyone, I'm Jennifer Page and I'm here with Becky Michaels and we are the two co-presidents of the board of directors of the Amherst Education Foundation. AEF, as you heard, was founded 25 years ago by a group of parents and community members who wanted a way of giving back to Amherst public schools. Ellen's story was one of our founders. And what AEF does is we raise money through events, sponsorships, and donations that we then turn around and give away via grants to educators in Amherst, Pellum, Leverett and Schuetsbury public schools. We give away about $30,000 in grants each year. On average, our grants are about $5,000 to $7,000 and we'll go up as high as $10,000 for certain grants. This past year, we funded a garden-based learning program at Crocker Farm, Fort River and Wildwood. We funded a restorative justice program at the high school, a coding and robotics program at the middle school where we were told previously there had been no computer science courses. So this fills a gap at the middle school, allowing students to prepare for taking computer science in high school. And we also funded a new light board in the Amherst Regional High School Auditorium and given how many community groups use the high school auditorium for performances that in particular is a grant that benefits not just those directly related to the high school community. So this year we're celebrating our 25th anniversary and we'll be having an event on May 30th at the Marriott Center at UMass. And we're calling it a toast to 25 years and Ellen's story herself will be giving the toast. We're also expecting Senator Joe Cumberford and Representative Mindy Dom who will speak for a few minutes about the importance of supporting public education. So tickets are available on our website at amhersteducationfoundation.org. We're also looking for new board members to join our board. We are an all-volunteer board of directors. AEF is a very lean organization. We have one very part-time paid staff member. And the rest of the work of AEF is done by our all-volunteer board of directors. So we're looking for people who are interested in and passionate about public education at Amherst. So anyone in the audience or anyone watching at home who's interested can visit our website to fill out a board application. I think that was all I wanted to go over. And I thank you for considering our commemoration. And we appreciate your support. Thank you. Did you have any further comment? No, Jennifer covered all of it. Thank you very much. OK. Are there questions from the council? See none. Then the motion is to adopt the proclamation in recognition of the 25th anniversary of the Amherst Education Foundation as presented. Do I hear a motion? So moved. I'm sorry. We hit Mandy Jo and then Pat. The second. Any further conversation? Discussion? All those in favor, raise your hand. It's unanimous. Thank you. Thank you. We look forward to joining you at your event. Thanks. And now we're going to move to item 7B, which is the MSBA Statement of Interest. And I'm going to first of all ask for council questions and discussion that may have arisen since our last meeting on the 18th. And then we'll have a public period of public comment. And then a motion and vote on the Statement of Interest for both Wildwood and Fort River. There also is a town council letter in support of the schools. However, the MSBA Statement is worded as it needs to be for the actual application. So first of all, are there questions or points of discussion from the council? Then may I see a show of hands of those who would like to speak? OK. Why don't you come forward? Good evening. My name is Jean Fay. I'm the president of the Amherst Pelham Education Association. And I'm actually here to read a letter from a retired teacher from Terry Magner, retired art teacher at Fort River. Before I start her letter, though, I do want to say that I think it's quite evident from the previous town council meeting that active educators in the district, retired educators, administrators, and community members were quite united. We are communicating with each other. And we're really standing united in getting across the point that we need to do something about our schools. So this letter is from Terry Magner. I'm going to read it in her voice. My name is Terry Magner. I was the art teacher at Fort River School for 37 years. And my three children attended Fort River School, Arms, and the high school. I was always so proud to be working for the Amherst public schools. For many years, Amherst was truly synonymous with fine education, K through college. I was proud to be an employee. The standards for teachers and students alike were high, and we all brought ourselves up to meet them. I taught art in the very front room near the entrance of Fort River from 1976 through 2013. I mentioned the classroom location for a few reasons. First, many international visitors came in those days to tour our illustrious schools, and many realtors came through often with prospective new residents eager to buy homes and Amherst to raise and educate their families. Sadly, now our elementary schools are not touted or toured. Realtors no longer have any requests at all for Fort River School, and hopefully, if they do have a visitor, it won't be on a rainy day, a cold day, or kind of warm day. I watched that entire progression before I retired six years ago. Secondly, the world has changed quite dramatically from 1976 to 2013. Welcoming visitors had been a pleasure. Sharing our pride, showing students making art was joyful. I feel fortunate that my proposal of having a hallway at the entrance reconstructed to have a large window to allow student and school art to be showcased never came to fruition. After Columbine from 1999 to 2013, I was fearful for my students in the art room. We were immediately in stranger danger territory. Anyone walking in found us immediately, and people often wandered in thinking it must be the front office. Years later, we began safety drills and locking the front door. I still feared for myself and my students in the vulnerable space. It was a fabulous art room long ago, but when the leaks began and the mold started growing, I would get three to four sinus infections yearly. In the days that Fort River was temporarily closed while rugs were removed, it was not a healthy place to be. As time passed, we felt that we knew that Amherst would replace the building, built on a notorious swamp with a thin flat roof and a much worn out heating air system. It seriously deteriorated at a rate that custodians could not catch.  We are patching it up, but that is so wrong. I am still a resident and taxpayer and strong proponent of public schools, but I cannot recommend Fort River School or Wildwood to anyone I know for their children. I am so sorry for the current students and for my former colleagues who have stayed. The elementary schools in the Amherst Public School District should reflect this town's most important industry, education. I am ashamed for us. If I were starting out again with three children to educate, I would not buy a house in Amherst and pay Amherst taxes. It is unacceptable. Regardless of the superintendent and staff and curriculum, the environment is disgraceful, unhealthy and contrary to this town's educational beliefs. Please don't delay. Please come together and vote for the new school. Thank you. Thank you. There was another hand in the back of the room. Were there any other comments? I'm gonna read off this and I haven't corrected the grammar yet. So I hope that's okay. Julian Hines, District Four. And today I would like to talk about the importance of the new MSBA proposal. And I feel that it is very flawed because there is an importance of respecting the fact that the voters voted down a new school design eerily similar to the one that is currently being proposed. So for that, in support of our small neighborhood-ish schools and feeling that the current new school design is very flawed in many small ways, coming from a student, I hope that this information will be taken deeply by the counselors. And I also hope that you will join me in opposition of this school plan. A recent example that I've talked about is coming in the new school design, coming from the younger children's playground to the basketball courts through that loop. It's an entry that involves going in between and through buses in a way that is unsafe for the new students, for younger students. And I also believe that things like how there's two floors with that balcony up top, and it feels like a very modern design to me, a design that is eerily repeating how we built the school Fort River and Wildwood in the 70s. So I believe that we should take note at that and come up with an entirely new proposal, not based on the old one, that would give our students peace of mind in a new building and that would also include changes that need to be made that are incorrect with the current proposal. Thank you. Thank you for your comment. Are there any other comments at this time? Are there any questions or comments from the council? Dorothy. Okay, this one is to Julian. My understanding is that we are not committed to a particular design, even not to a particular place, although clearly some of us have our preferences, but that all we're doing today is saying that we're united in applying for money and in doing feasibility studies, which will examine all of these things. I do appreciate your comment about the intersection with the children and the buses, and I think that's something really serious and we would definitely need to look into that in the future design. But I also want to say that I do not think this design, this proposal as it is coming, is really identical to the one before. There are some important differences and one of the differences is the combined school is smaller. Secondly, that the grade configuration keeps the children together much more. And this is very important for a lot of people, particularly a mother who has more than one child or a single parent. So for me, many of the problems that I had with the previous design have been dealt with in this new proposal, but it's not all tied down and a lot of work has to be done.  Thank you. Thank you. Are there other comments from the council before we move to the motions? Yes. Mandy Jones. I just want to say to everyone who has emailed us, come out to the council meetings and all of the public listening sessions that the school committee held. Thank you. And I also want to say, I've personally received 50 emails. Many of them went to the whole council. Every single one of them was in support of this proposal. I have not in my service on the Charter Commission or in our short time here, ever seen an issue this large that I haven't received a single no request from, which is, I think, big. And individuals that stated that they did have concerns, there were some concerns. Those concerns will be addressed, I feel, during the feasibility study, because including our young commenter tonight, we're just starting and there isn't a building design yet. There isn't a location yet, as my fellow councilor said. And so I feel confident at the beginning of a process that the public engagement will continue and that this is the best way and the most fiscally responsible way to address the needs of our schools. Yes, Shalini. I also want to thank everybody. The number of emails we got is amazing. And so thanks to each one of you who's taking time to follow up and support this project. I also want to acknowledge the concern that some people have demonstrated about the loss of the small schools and the neighborhood schools. And that was something that I struggled with a little bit that for the sake of coming up with a solution, are we indeed losing what we really valued in our communities. And what I did see and what helped me make my decision that I just want to share with all of you was in doing the research of what is a small school, what is a neighborhood school, I did not find a consensus. It was hard to find a definition that everyone agreed upon. What I did find across the research was the need for creating small cohorts. And that's something that everyone could agree upon, regardless of who it was. And I believe the new plan is going to enable that. So by small cohort, what I understood is that each grade should not have more than two to four classes. And now with the dual program and our presentation that we saw, that's what is going to happen. So we are still going to have the small cohorts. And it feels like there is a strong emphasis on building a healthy community and closing it, community between the parents, the children and the teachers and staff. So I feel very confident about that. And I see from a finance perspective as well that this is the most physically responsible decision. Thank you. Additional comments? Kathy. I'll just build on some of the comments others have made. I too have received a large number of comments in favor. And I think some of the most meaningful were people who voted against the last proposal who stated why they both have a trust in the leadership that they're going to do what Shalini has just described. And keeping the grades together was very important. Bringing the size down was very important with the cohorts. So it was heartwarming to me to have people directly email me who knew that I knew how they had voted before and tell me that they now weren't supportive. Are there additional comments from the council? We have two motions. We're going to do one and then the other. I'm sorry. Please. I wouldn't prefer it. And why don't you place it in motion? Okay. All right. So the motion language we have doesn't actually say I move. Shall I just add the result? It's the resolved. Right. So resolved. I'm going to start with the Fort River one. Resolved having convened in an open meeting on April 1st, 2019, prior to the SOI submission closing date, the town council of Amherst, Massachusetts in accordance with its charter, bylaws and ordinances, has voted to authorize the superintendent to submit to the Massachusetts School Building Authority, the statement of interest dated March 26, 2019 for the Fort River School located at 70 Southeast Street, which describes and explains the following deficiencies and the priority categories for which an application may be submitted to the Massachusetts School Building Authority in the future. Priority one, replacement or renovation of a building which is structurally unsound or otherwise in a condition seriously jeopardizing the health and safety of school children where no alternative exists. Priority five, replacement, renovation or modernization of school facility systems such as roofs, windows, boilers, heating and ventilation systems to increase energy conservation and decrease energy related costs in a school facility. Priority seven, replacement of or addition to obsolete buildings in order to provide for a full range of programs consistent with state and approved local requirements. And hereby further specifically acknowledges that by submitting this statement of interest form, the Massachusetts School Building Authority in no way guarantees the acceptance or the approval of an application, the awarding of a grant or any other funding commitment from the Massachusetts School Building Authority or commits the Amherst Public School District to filing an application for funding with the Massachusetts School Building Authority. Is there a second? Dorothy? I second it. I second it. Are there any further conversations? Then by a show of hands, all those in favor, raise your hand. That is unanimous. We have one more statement for Wildwood. Kathy? You're closer. See if I can read it as Abeliece Mandy did. Resolved, having convened an open meeting on April 1st, 2019 prior to the SOI submission closing date, the Town Council of Amherst, Massachusetts in according with its charter bylaws and ordinances has voted to authorize the superintendent to submit the Massachusetts School Building Authority. The statement of interest dated March 26, 2019 for the Wildwood School located at 71 Strong Street, which describes and explains the following deficiencies and priority categories for which the application may be submitted to the Massachusetts School Building Authority in the future. Priority one, replacement or renovation of a building which is structurally unsound and otherwise in a condition seriously jeopardizing the health and safety of school children where no alternative exists. Priority five, replacement renovation or modernization of a school facility system shuts as roofs, windows, boilers, heating and ventilation system to increase energy conservation and decrease energy related costs in a school facility. Priority seven, replacement or addition to obsolete buildings in order to provide a full range of programs consistent with state and approved local requirements. And hereby, further specifically acknowledge that by submitting this statement of interest form, the Massachusetts School Building Authority in no way guarantees the acceptance or approval of the application, the awarding of a grant or other funding commitment from the Massachusetts School Building Authority or commits the Amherst public school district to filing an application for funding with the Massachusetts School Building Authority. Is there any further, is there a second? Oh, a second. Pat seconded it. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Okay, thank you. That's also unanimous. There is one other. And we have two letter, we have a letter of support that we have also written that goes with this but are you going to start passing around that for the signature, please? The town clerk, the clerk of the town council is now passing around for individual signature the two motions and votes that we have just taken that will be included in the application. So while we're doing that, we've also written the following letter. At its regular meeting on April 1st, the town, the Amherst town council in accordance with the Charter by Laws and Ordinances voted unanimously to support the superintendent's submission to the Massachusetts School Building Authority, the Statement of Interest School Building Authority, the statement dated March 26th, 2019 for the Wildwood School located at 71 Strong Street. In support of this motion, the council discussed the Statement of Interest for the Fort River and Wildwood Schools at its January 25th, March 18th and April 1st, 2019 meetings. Heard testimony from all three elementary school principals and a significant number of parents and teachers as well as a written communication from the president of the teachers union. Attended all six public listening sessions held by the Amherst School Committee and superintendent of the Statement of Interest. These sessions were held on February 25th, I'm sorry, February 27th, February 28th and March 6th. All 13 counselors attended at least one or more of the sessions and no fewer than five counselors were present at each of the six public listening sessions and received an overwhelming number of emails, letters and phone calls from residents supporting the Statement of Interest submitted for both Fort River and Wildwood and the school committees and superintendents' proposal to replace both aging elementary schools with one building which would house 600 students in grades six K to five or K to six. The town council strongly urges the approval of this application. However, we understand and we have the same statement on it as we did before. Is there a motion to submit these letters as well? George and Chalene is a second. All those in favor? It's unanimous. We look forward to working with you as we move forward and may Boston hear us. Thank you very much. Did you wanna say anything, either one of you? I just wanna thank the council, I think for three things. One is that as you noted in that letter, your attendance and engagement in this issue has been incredibly high. It's not the only thing that has been, you've been getting emails about or having questions or comments about that but it's felt that way to me because of the level of detail and questions that we received from each of you along the way. The second thing is just the support that we felt tonight both in terms of the votes as well as the additional letter that you offered. I know from my many conversations at MSPA, they're looking for a sense that the community does have consensus to move forward. That was their major concern for last year and I'm really appreciative of the sign of support that we received. I think the last thing is more forward thinking and maybe I'm in an optimistic mood at the moment but if we are able to get in that it will continue to be a partnership between the schools and the town because it really is that partnership separate from approvals and every other matter, other technical matters, really the partnership is what I think will get us to where we want to which is a better learning environment for the students in our community. So I just wanna offer my heartfelt thanks to all of you for your engagement and your support. Thank you. Yeah, Stacia. And I also wanna say thank you to all of you for attending the sessions, for being so thoughtful during this entire process and to each of you for asking the questions that you've asked, for thinking through all the different details. We really appreciate that. And as Dr. Morris said and has been stated already, it's not a guarantee that we will get into this pipeline that this application will be successful but hopefully I think with a strong vote that you sent tonight and the message that you sent tonight certainly improves our chances. So thank you so much for all the work that you have done, really appreciate it. If you wait for two more signatures, you can leave with the originals but you have to send us copies. No, he said you can't leave with the originals. Trust us, no, that's too special to you. Okay, we'll make sure you get the originals however for your proposal. Thank you very much. Thank you. We are now going to go through two presentations and discussions. The first one is on a recycling update and I'm calling on Mr. Backelman for this and that is being done with Mimi Kaplan. Thank you. Let me introduce Mimi first. Mimi is our waste reduction coordinator and she's here, she works for the town through a grant that the town's received and the question came up from the council requesting information about recycling and how the global markets are impacting local communities. So Mimi's coming forward with a relatively brief presentation because she was told to be brief but we'll be able to answer questions if the councilors have that. Thank you for having me. It's an important issue for the town. Closer. Oh, the timing is good. My grant will be up in a few months and I will not be here anymore so get me at a good time. Here's a quick snapshot of trash and recycling. Some of this you probably know, residents can contract with a private hauler or use the transfer station. I won't go through the list of the licensed haulers currently but most residents use either Amherst trucking or USA and there used to be three local haulers. Amherst trucking, Do So and Alternative Recycling and USA which is based in Connecticut bought Do So and Alternative. So they are the main two haulers now. Although apartment complexes primarily use a company called Republic Services and the average cost for households is around $400 if they contract with a private hauler that's given like a medium-sized trash container once a week and recycling is included. A little overview of the transfer station. Residents buy stickers if they want to use the transfer station. It's $85 a little more for a business. According to the transfer station they have about 1,700 households who have stickers. If a household produces not a lot of trash it's more affordable to use the transfer station than to contract with a private hauler. It's pay as you throw, that's what PAYT is.  And also students are allowed to use the transfer station without purchasing a sticker as long as they come with a valid ID. And so about 200 students used it in 2018. There are many recycling collections. Amherst is one of the best in Western Massachusetts for how many things that they accept for recycling. There are fees for most of those things but things like mattresses, appliances, batteries, bulbs things like that and compost, kitchen compost. And the paper and cardboard at when people bring their recycling there the paper cardboard goes to a facility called Sonoco. The transfer station gets paid for that. The DPW, the town, and they pay, they actually pay the Springfield Material Recycling Facility or MERF to bring their containers there. That's, I'll explain that a little more in another slide. So okay, so where recycling goes? Amherst Rucking is dual stream. You separate paper cardboard from containers. All dual stream recycling in Western Massachusetts goes to the Springfield MERF. They are very secretive about what the end markets are and who the buyers are. So I cannot give you company names because they would not divulge this. But, and I think there's multiple reasons for that but I do know that very little if any goes overseas. So there are domestic buyers. I do know there is a regular buyer in Eastern Massachusetts for our paper which is great because it never went to China and very little did go to China from Western Massachusetts. However, USA which is based in Connecticut brings their, they are single stream. So they are starting to transition all their do so and alternative recycling customers. They will transition them to single stream meaning everything together and that goes to a facility in Berlin, Connecticut and from there both domestic and overseas most likely Southeast Asia. Same with Republic Services and Waste Management goes to Eastern Mass and then to both domestic and overseas markets. So due to the situation with China which I'll just tell a little bit more about later. There were exemptions in Massachusetts to either landfill or incinerate recyclables. Right now they are not giving those exemptions. So any clean recyclables are being recycled but clean is the operative work. So you probably know China stopped taking a lot of recyclables from the US in the past year for various reasons but a big reason was we were sending a lot of dirty and contaminated recyclables to China. So there was a lot of trash mixed in. So for their own environmental and other reasons they stopped taking it. So as a result there has been a glut of materials and lower prices for recyclables just overall. There's also been a demand for cleaner recyclables like less contaminated. And some municipalities have increased recycling fees if the municipality does the recycling or has a contract for it. Some not any in Massachusetts I'm aware of have decided not to recycle at all because it's so expensive, too expensive but not in Massachusetts that I'm aware of. To keep it in perspective prices for recyclables have always fluctuated because they're commodities. So right now they're low, they could go up. Domestic markets are starting to increase now. So I was just at a conference last week they were talking about this in one to three years the prices could go up. And this is important for western mass that recyclable materials from dual stream collections have lower rates of contamination. We have under 10% contaminated recyclables here where some single stream it can be 30%, 25, 30%. So they're higher quality and more marketable. And it's been improving because that's one of the things I've been working on. And so right now if so because in 2015 the town opted out of a contract with the Springfield Murph we actually would have been making some money for recycling but because prices for paper were very high back then they decided that it was worth it to not renew the contract with the Murph to pay for the containers and get money for the paper if that makes sense. They were profiting from it but right now we're not because prices have gone down. So right now we are, right now the recyclables from the transportation we are paying. To recycle them, that's how it is right now. So just to think about that kind of the general consensus I'm hearing is that even though this is a painful period with lower prices for recyclables that it's ultimately a good thing because we are now being forced to clean up our recycling and also develop and invest in domestic markets and also think about other ways to reduce waste and reduce plastic use. And also just to emphasize that there really are very few municipalities that are just stopping recycling and that to take the long view there is an economic and an environmental value in continuing to recycle. Thank you. Are there questions? Shalem, I'm sorry. Kathy. Kathy. Just a couple of things you said. If dual stream gets less contaminated goods than single, single why would it make sense to only contract with trucking companies that do dual? So eliminate the one that's doing single. And I just wanna ask a related one. Is there a benefit to Amherst residents or to the town of having as many as we do in terms of different groups? I know some are really small but it means different trucks coming at different times a day. So do we get an advantage out of that? Cause I think all the prices are the same. They're similar, I would say. Yeah, so it was a pretty big change when USA bought out do so in alternative because they had been dual stream bringing all their materials to the MRF, the local MRF in Springfield. So yeah, they asked USA if they could stay dual stream and they said no, they didn't want to. I mean, I do think it's beneficial. I do think dual stream is preferable and yeah, I mean overall I think it's better. And no, there's no particular reason I don't think to have multiple haulers. That's just the system that has evolved here. I mean, there are a couple fewer haulers now. Mr. Broklin. Thank you. So single stream was introduced to encourage more recycling to make it easier for consumers to recycle and that was the goal of it. But then as Mimi talked about the net outcome was that there was a lot of contaminated recycling. So there was a downside to the way that the town has been doing it historically has been a dual stream and that's been a benefit to the quality of the material that we have. The town itself doesn't contract for any curbside pickup. It's up to the individual property owners or renters to do that, take on that task. We do license the haulers through the Board of Health. But in terms of if there's a market for three companies to come in, if there's a market for 10 companies to come in, any company can come in if they get licensed by the Board of Health and compete for the business. So in many communities it's the town itself that collects the recycling or the trash. That's not the model in Amherst at this point in time. Shalini. I had two questions. One is what could we do to promote curbside composting? And okay, so that's both of our question. And secondly, what is our waste reduction goal? I was just curious and where are we with that? Okay. To promote curbside composting. So USA does currently offer that if people want to pay for it. They do. There's also a couple other small companies. There's one called City Compost that will come and collect just a five gallon bucket and then bring you finished compost. So it is available. Obviously in order for everyone to do it, you have to write into the bylaw. But education and encouraging people to do it and letting them know that this is an option. It does cost more.  I would add to that. Darcy. Darcy. I think people are really unaware of the fact that this curbside composting is available through USA. I use it, I get compost pickup every two weeks, costs $11 each time. And I'm provided with this humongous container to put it in that I can use for probably two months without putting it out. And in the middle of the winter, it's frozen so you can actually not do it. You don't have to do it that frequently. And you can put everything in the compost. Paper, pizza boxes, paper towels. So you can really put a massive percentage of your trash in the compost. So I highly recommend it. And if the dual stream Amherst trucking is preferable, it would be really good if we could encourage them to do that. Yeah, I've talked to them multiple times about it. If they felt there was competitive pressure on them to do that, they might invest in a truck for that and offer that. Additional question, Darcy. In some towns, they divide the area up, which I would like to see happen because my husband takes the stuff to the dump and he enjoys doing that. But I don't like hearing all these huge, and I mean huge trucks going on my small residential street and I can hear them on the side streets and they all come at different hours. It's like an invasion. And just to me, that's an unnecessary waste of fossil fuel and creation of pollution. So I would like to say I'm in favor of finding it so that the area is divided up in some way. We don't have dueling truck routes. That was one of the recycling reuse committee that I think has been disbanded. That was one of their, I think they gave three possible suggestions for improving. Okay. That's one of their options. Andy. Yeah, I have a question, but I think on the last point, I was the select board liaison to the recycling and refuse management committee. So I'm familiar with the work that they did and their recommendations. It is a matter that's probably within the purview of the Board of Health because they're the ones who issue the regulations. My question though for you, Ms. Cablin, is have we made progress on getting greater compliance and cooperation from the residential apartment complexes and their residents? There is recycling at every multifamily residence in Amherst. So every apartment complex, every apartment building has either a dumpster for recycling or the carts. They tend to be more contaminated just because of the nature I would say of when you have a large dumpster. And there's less personal accountability and also for various reasons. It doesn't look as different. Maybe people aren't taking the time. There definitely tends to be more contamination, I would say, and those are all single stream also. I have worked with some of the apartment complexes. I mean, I've worked with all of them. I mean, I distributed education material. I've done quite a bit. So they all are recycling, but it could be cleaner. I mean, the outreach that I've done at single family homes and small rentals where I leave a tag and people understand so they know what's wrong with their recycling, it doesn't work in an apartment complex. Because if you put it on a dumpster that 100 people use, they're not gonna pay attention. Thank you. Amanda Jo. I know it was probably the recycling and refuse management committee that did a survey of residents a while back about all of that. So I'd be interested to have the results of that and the recommendations forwarded. I know when I lived in Boulder, it was a bylaw about what recycling companies had to, or trash haulers had to provide service-wise. And that essentially limited it down to one hauler. And one of the requirements was curbside composting and unlimited recycling. And it was pay as you throw essentially with certain size containers. So I'd be interested to know if that's something in Massachusetts, could it be something coming from the council to mandate curbside composting of all trash haulers that offer services in Amherst or things like that? Or does it have to come from the Board of Health? The other question I have relates to recycling of containers in businesses in downtown. I know I get very frustrated when I go to a food establishment and I purchase a container and I drink that container and then I'm sitting in the establishment and there is no recycling bin to put that container. So what has been done to get establishments in downtown to recycle the containers they sell or offer recycling containers in their businesses for customers to put those containers that are recyclable in? And is there something we as a council, again, could do to maybe make that happen? It is in the bylaws. I mean, they are supposed to be recycling. All businesses are. But front end recycling, they might be recycling back, but they don't have a container in the public spot to put the recyclable container. I have spoken with a number of businesses, but because the grant is really primarily about residential, I haven't worked extensively. Sarah can tell you I spoke to the, I did speak to the bid, but it's like it is optional I guess to have it at the front, although it isn't, it isn't because if too many recyclables are going in their trash, they are actually, that is gonna be too many recyclables in terms of regulations. It's not supposed to be more than 5% of recyclables in the trash. So if someone did go and enforce it, then yes, they would be liable. Darcy. I hear that you have provided a great service for the town and I'm wondering what's gonna happen when your grant runs out? I don't know. That's not a question I believe she's able to answer. I mean, are you wondering if I'm putting things in place that can continue without me? Are you? Are you wondering if I'm putting things in place that can continue without me? If you are, that would be interesting to know, yes. Not sure, because there's not, there's really not this staff. I think you do need a staff person to run and manage the things I've been doing. I mean, obviously Steve does a great job at the transfer station and he did take over some of Susan Waite's responsibilities when she left. Like he does some of the grant writing, but he can't do the outreach. He can't, he's already got a full plate. So yeah, he can't do the outreach and the education. Sorry, you're working with businesses or any of those kinds of things, no. Okay. Alyssa? So as Kaplan knows that I have spoken about this in the past and it's a little awkward because she has done great service for us. And at the same time, I questioned whether or not we should accept this grant in the first place because her position was not free. It did cost us money as well as receiving grant money. So it's never free. We haven't had adequate staffing since Susan Waite left, since we made budget decisions that allowed that position to go unfilled. So it's been marvelous to have her here to help try and pick up some of those gaps because not having Susan Waite's position here has meant nobody largely was doing it, although little piece parts were being done by people. And we knew this wasn't gonna be a long-term solution because we knew that this grant that was not entirely free was also only gonna be for a short period of time. And so hopefully would maybe jumpstart a few apartment complexes that hadn't been feeling the enthusiasm, that kind of thing, but it's not an ongoing solution to a problem. And so I think that's one of the things that comes back to the town council in addition to the specifics around things like board of health and hauling requirements and who's required to do compost and can we ask them to limit their licensing is also as a community, what do we value on this? Because we used to have a position. It was not usually a full-time position ever. And there's massive education as I'm sure as Kaplan could speak to, you have to make contact over and over and over again with people. And so finding another grant someday is not really gonna solve the problem either. So figuring out ways to do that, moving forward seems like a financial discussion we should be having associated with guidelines too, even though unfortunately she'll go on back. Are there any other comments or questions at this time? Obviously the Energy and Climate Action Committee has yet another piece to be looking at. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, appreciate it. Thanks for your service to the town. Thank you. Alyssa, are you going to discuss the next item which was, or shall we have that at another time? I'm not looking at the agenda right now. Council liaisons. Council liaisons, we're gonna, I can speak to that very briefly. Do you want to speak to it now or later on when we do your committee report? Why don't we do it then? Okay, we'll do that along with committee reports toward the end of the agenda. So that at this point, we're going to move on to action item seven. And we have four requests for the use of public ways. The first of which is the taste of Amherst and I believe Sarah and Claudia. Please come forward, state your name. And what brings you here? Hi, thank you for having us. I'm Sarah Lacour, Executive Director of the Amherst Business Improvement District. Claudia Pasmani, Executive Director Amherst, Area Chamber of Commerce.  It's coming up June 13th through 15th, 2019.  Same location as usual on the town common. And the one change this year is we are running for three days and not four. So it will be Thursday afternoon evening, dinner hours, Friday and then Saturday it will be lunch and dinner and then not on Sunday this year. There you go, there's the map. So we are looking at closures of parking in order to have our vendors be able to load and unload and set up their areas. And then also we are requesting the closure of Boltwood Avenue because the, if you're familiar with the beer and wine tent is on the Amherst College property on the east side of Boltwood Avenue. And so we have a lot of folks crossing back and forth that street during those hours. Additional comments? Add anything, we're really looking forward to it this year. It's all the usual activities. We'll have the large stage, lots of music. We're looking at 20 to 22 restaurants. Our usual activities for children and families. So nothing too out of the ordinary on this one. Okay, oh I think the difference. I think this year is a real partnership between the Amherst bid and the chamber to make sure that this is a successful, safe and an attractive event. This is the only taste in the valley. So we really hope that it becomes something that really brings more people downtown and that's our goal. Hope for nice weather. Okay. Are there questions? Mandy Jo? A couple of questions for you specifically and then a couple for Paul. This is not gonna be a surprise. But one of them is, I was unclear. The park, is it the whole lot that is being closed off? Cause you had on your request like bagging meters including north and south sides of the Spring Street lot. Is that closing the lot off? Yes, the Spring Street lot gets closed off. Vendors leave their trucks and various accessory pieces of equipment and things there. So that has been the same as in the past. Maybe I wasn't clear on my work. Yeah, it just seemed unclear to me. In terms of the timing to the town manager, does this mean we bag and unbag the meters every day for three days in a row? Yes, I should note that the meters are really just on boltwood and on South Pleasant Street. It's just a couple of parking stations, kiosks in the Spring Street lot. But they do get removed at the end of Thursday night and then re-put on at five o'clock on Friday. So that adds again more time to police work and all. And so I am going to note, I've had some questions as to why I tend to vote no for this. I am going, I do not oppose the taste, but because there is no fee being charged for the reserving of these parking meters, I am continuing to vote no until this council has a chance to review the fee structure. So I thought I'd make that clear. It's not that I disagree with the taste when I do vote no. Are there additional questions Pat? I enjoy the taste we go every year. I feel like it's advertisement for the vendors as well as the town as a whole. So I'm also having problems with this not being for a not-for-profit organization or something that fees are not necessarily being paid for the covering of the parking meters, et cetera. Am I wrong about that? So this year is actually our first year that we are donating proceeds from the event to two not-for-profits. One is not brought alone and the other is reader to reader. So that is a significant component of the proceeds this year. Advertising. And they've been notified as well. Additional questions. Kathy. This is actually related to people being able to get to it easily if they can't park downtown. Have we ever looked at making sure people know that the high school parking lot or there is an off-site parking lot or even over by the ATM machine where Bank America is whether people give their parking up to say you can park here and come into town? Just really thinking of drawing people in by showing people where they can park and walk. Yes, thank you for asking that. We have talked about in the past, we have directed folks to the high school parking lot. Also, we can use different facilities. There's a parking lot at Amherst College that we're working on using and we do plan to have a more specific map to direct folks to this year so that they can know that they can come easily and park and some of them are going to be a bit of a walk, but we want to make sure that people do understand that they can park and can come to the event. Yes, Alyssa. I fully realize that this is our first year where you haven't had to bring your, the licensing request hasn't been brought by Amherst College associated with the information associated with the beer tent across the street because that's a conversation you'll be having with the Board of License Commissioners. But in terms of people understanding, people do cross back and forth the street there because there is activity on the Amherst College property because we don't have alcohol on our common. And for those of you who have been out of town every year for a million years and missed that and not realized that, has there been any additional thought about every year I ask a variation of this question, do we feel like the crossing is safe enough given the road closure that we're providing associated with that because there are cars parked along there while people are traveling back and forth, it's not like we clean out the street and then let people walk back and forth as though it was say the big block party. It's not that kind of scenario where all the cars are gone. There's still cars there, there's still the horse wagon ride moving around, et cetera. There's activity happening even though the ways are being blocked. And so I've always been a little nervous and never actually had anything bad happen but about people dashing between two rows of parked cars over to the Amherst College property. And I guess I would just ask that you continue to talk to public safety about how they are running, letting people in and out of there, et cetera. Just so people feel more secure. I've seen people walking across that are somewhat elderly trying to find their way even though the road itself is closed, there's a lot of activity going on. Additional comments or questions? Would someone like to place the motion? I move that we, do I have to read this one here? Oh, yes. Okay. To approve, I move that we approve the closure of Boltwood Avenue between Spring Street and Route 9 from 5 p.m. to 9 30 p.m. on Thursday, June 13th, 2019. From 5 p.m. to 9 30 on Friday, June 14th, 2019. And from 2 p.m. to 9 30 p.m. on Saturday, June 15th, 2019. To approve the reservation of all metered parking spaces using no parking bags along the perimeter of the town common from 12 p.m. to 10 p.m., 12, okay. Thursday, June 13th, 2019. From 5 p.m. to 10 p.m. on Friday, June 14th, 2019. And from 2 p.m. to 10 p.m. on Saturday, June 15th, 2019. And further, to approve the suspension on street food truck vendors on the South Common from 5 p.m. on Thursday, June 13th, 2019, through 10 p.m. on Saturday, June 15th, 2019. Is there a second? Challenging. Any further comments, questions? All those in favor? Excuse me, do you want a roll call or? Okay, there are, was it 10, 11 or 12 in favor? Let's do it again. Do it again. 12 in favor, one abstention? No. No. No. Two. I'm sorry. Ask for again. Oh, those against. I'm sorry, thank you. Mandy Jo, got it. That's a no. That's a no. Any abstentions? No. 12 to one. Thank you. All right, thank you very much. Look forward to the taste. Thanks very much, appreciate it. Amherst Sustainability Festival, is the next one. Stephanie? Please come forward. Good evening, I'm Stephanie Ciccarello, the town's sustainability coordinator. And I'm here this evening to request parking for the 10th, best 10th annual sustainability festival for the town of Amherst. The event is being held on Saturday, April 27th from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. and we are requesting parking. We've had to revise our request this year. Typically we only request the western side of Biltwood Avenue adjacent to the common, but we have very, we have a lot of vendors. We have over, the last few years we've had over a hundred vendors attend the event and we have vendors with mobility issues. We have vendors with horses that come to the event. So, although it looks like all of this is just for vendor parking, it is to a point, the vendor parking along Biltwood Avenue, all of that on the east side adjacent to the side of the Biltwood Inn would be for vendor parking specifically. And the reason why we wanted more parking this year in Biltwood Avenue is to reduce the number of vendors because the street is closed for the farmers market at this time. During our setup, they start earlier than we do. So the street will be closed off. We have to drive, the vendors have to drive in, turn around in the driveway and then turn around back to sort of drop off. There's a designated drop off area for some of those spaces that will be left open for drop off and then the vendors leave and then go to their parking. So to ease the number of vendors that have to go in and turn around and drive out, we've tried to create some more parking. I did talk with the Amherst Farmers Market Manager about this parking situation and blocking off the street because we were hoping that perhaps for this one event they might be able to keep it open for us. But because of the way they have their vendor set up, they really need to block off the street. So his concession to us was to give us more parking. So the parking on the eastern side of Biltwood Avenue, which is directly adjacent to the common will accommodate vendors who have mobility issues. They can't park on the South Pleasant Street side because that slopes down to the common. So for those with mobility issues, they can't easily access getting their wares onto the common. So there are a fair number of vendors with mobility issues. There are also, as I mentioned, vendors with large trailers for the horses. So we usually give at least three parking spaces to those vendors. On the South Pleasant Street side adjacent to the common, this year we're having to move the location of the textile drive to the South Pleasant Street side because people need to drive up and drop off their donations for the recycling drive and then drive off. We need spaces for the bins to permanently stand for the day. So they actually get dropped off the day before. They are typically dropped off on a Friday. They will get dropped off. They will stay stationary throughout the event and then people driving up will need at least four or five. The textile drive has gotten very popular and I even have colleagues asking me if it's going to happen again this year. That's for clothing, for shoes, for large foam, styrofoam, packing materials that's also for things like electronics. So it's an extended and extensive recycling drive that happens. So we need at least six spaces to accommodate that. And then again the rest will be for some vendors who some of them also have large items and things that they need to sort of access the common. So we let them actually have a space so it takes them longer to set up. So that's pretty much why we're asking for more parking this year. And Mandy Jo, I won't be offended. I can see your face and it's okay, I totally understand. But typically we have even moved the date of the event so that we wouldn't have to do this in the past. Last year we actually moved the event a week earlier than when the market opened. But honestly, it's really a nice collaboration to have the market going at the same time as the festival. The events really support one another and it's just a really nice feel to have the market happening at the same time as the festival. So a lot is happening this year. There's also we've collaborated with the University of Massachusetts and some graduate students to have the March for Science terminate at the Sustainability Festival. This happened two years ago when the event was held on Earth Day. So we've worked with them again this year to see if they could have the March for Science. It will go from Kendrick Park and end at the Sustainability Festival. So it's again, it's a really lovely town collaboration that happens that day. So we can deal with some of the frustrating parking but we will have, and I will add that we will have a police detail this year. We didn't have one two years ago and I personally feel very strongly that it's incredibly important to have a police presence for that because it does get congested during the setup time. And that really happens between eight and 10 but it will be pretty congested at that time. And so the parking request is from Friday at eight in the evening. We'd like to have the meters bagged and that would be through Saturday at five p.m. The event ends at four. We need an hour for vendors to finish breaking down and then clearing out by five p.m. Questions? Alyssa. I'm sorry, I know it's Amherst but I'm still gonna make a statement in front of my question. One of the reasons it's very frustrating for me to not get paper packets, all this, it's probably the most paper we've seen since we started is that we can't compare maps as easily and because we're flipping from one opening slide to another opening slide. And so for me to lay down what's happening with the taste versus the sustainability festival versus the next map is much more cumbersome to me electronically, although it's probably just that I'm old but it was easier when I had three pieces of paper to lay next to each other. I'm uncomfortable with the number of spaces on Boltwood that are being reserved for this purpose when we have other events on the common all the time that have a substantial number of vendors, all of which also not infrequently have mobility problems. We have a crafts festival at least twice a year on the common, we do not put all these spaces out of commission for those vendors. We have the vendors, they park off site and where they park in a certain part of the parking lot that's down in front of town hall or they make arrangements with Amherst College. I'm uncomfortable with saying that because this is a town event, it seems okay to go ahead and close off that much parking for Boltwood. So I just, I'm not in support of that. I would like to see the parking arrangements. There are plenty of conversations to be had with staff in the town manager's office about different ways this has been worked out around between the Lord Jeff, Amherst College, et cetera and some of our frequent vendors like big brothers, big sisters who have a craft festival, et cetera. Additional comments, Chalene? Have a clarification question. So do the other events draw 100 vendors and are they as large as, okay. Additional questions? Yes, Dorothy? What about the horses? Okay, you said, okay. You said there were horses and that's one reason you needed more space. What are you doing with the horses? There are three parking spaces closest to College Street that are dedicated for the trailers. The horses are just on display. That's a, they're basically just, it's not for pony rides or anything. It's just a group that uses draft horses for plowing and things, so in farming practices. Sustainable agricultural practices. Thank you. Additional questions? All right. Then the motion is as follows. To approve the reservation of 19-metered spaces, parking spaces using no parking bags on the west side of Boltwood Avenue adjacent to the common except for the two reserve for the farm risk market near Spring Street. 14-meter spaces on the east side of Boltwood Avenue between Spring Street and College Street and 13-metered spaces adjacent to the west side of the common along South Pleasant Street from 8 p.m. on Friday, April 26th, 2019 to 5 p.m. Saturday, April 27th, 2019. Is there a motion? Okay. Darcy, move second. George, second. Further discussion? All those in favor, raise your hand. Opposed? Okay, Margaret. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. The next one is the request for the use of public way for the May Day celebration. Is there anyone here to speak to this at this time? Okay. This is to approve the closure of Henry Street between Market Hill Road and Pine Street from 9 a.m. to 12 p.m. on Saturday, May 4th, 2019. And you have information in your packet regarding this. Is there a motion? Andy. Andy, so moved. A second. Sarah, is there any further discussion? Okay, all those in favor? That one's unanimous. Okay. And then we have a request for use of public way, art week, art nights, plus bid trolley parking. Sarah, thank you. Thank you. I'm still Sarah LaCour, Executive Director of the Business Improvement District. So we're requesting two parking spaces in front of our Visitor Information Center that we share with the chamber on May 2nd, which is both Art Night Plus and in the middle of our Art Week celebration, which you'll be hearing more about. That's a statewide initiative that the Amherst Center Cultural District, which is managed through the bid, is launching the first Art Week Amherst. And we have lots of different events being hosted throughout town by different organizations and groups. One of the bid pieces is we're going to showcase our trolley again. I don't know if you've had a chance to see it, but last summer we, through a collaboration with the Donahue Institute at UMass had two Pakistani artists that were visiting the Donahue Institute for other reasons, and they happened to mention that they liked painting vehicles, and this is part of sort of a Pakistani truck art movement. And I suggested that I had a trolley they could paint, and they actually took me up on it, and it came out really beautifully. So we're going, we'd like to park it in front of the Visitor Center, and Ken Leban from the Donahue Institute is going to provide interpretive materials, and some students from UMass that are going to help interpret the culture of this type of art, and what it means to them, and the fact that we have this. So we're requesting form, essentially the event is five to eight. We're asking for 43830 in time to get it into place. It would be parked so that the opening to the trolley was facing the Visitor Center. People might want to walk around all sides of it, so we would be putting up orange cones along the edge just to make sure people could get safely around it if they wanted to look at each side. Questions. Mandi Jo. This one's more for the town manager. Sorry about this, Sarah. No worries. I'm again assuming since there's no indication anywhere here that the bid would not be charged for the reservation of these two spots during the four, I guess, three hours since parking timing ends at eight, three and a half hours that they're using the meters. Could you explain to me if that is the case, the difference between a reservation like this and a reservation for two spots for a moving van for a certain similar amount of time that would get charged for that amount? The request is for the Council to not charge, obviously, and that's what this request is. The Council chooses to charge. You can make that motion. In terms of the Business Improvement District and the Chamber of Commerce, we think of those as civic organizations and we want to support their mission. Shelley. It seems like an incredible opportunity to bring community together and learn about this particular culture and art. And I was just curious about the location of it. You did mention you're going to put cones, but was there any consideration of putting it somewhere else which would allow for more community to gather around? So because it's a vehicle, we did look at a lot of different options, but because of the size and the way it maneuvers, they all involved parking spots. For the taste of ours last year, we actually parked it in the Spring Street lot and all it was closed and that worked out really well because that had already been reserved. So we really were trying to figure out where to put it. The only other places would be private property off the beaten track and we really wanted to be front and center associated with our activities in the visitor center that evening. We did try to sort through that, yeah. Andy. I just support this and I appreciate it of bringing the trolley back in its new form for everybody to admire. Is the 430 time, this is also a question for the town managers, 430 times sufficient to clear the spaces for people who might be parking there during the day and have paid for a longer period of time. Is that really a feasible time request to achieve the goal? So what typically we do is we put a notice on the meter saying that these spaces are reserved at a certain period of time to alert people if they're gonna park there. Are there additional questions? I just wanna say that in the interest of full disclosure, I have been employed by the University of Massachusetts Donahue Institute. I am no longer executive director but I continue to work with them as a senior advisor. Thank you. I had nothing to do with the painting of the trolley. But I knew it was happening. We tried to get people to volunteer, it was fun. Thank you. Anything else? Any questions? All right, the motion is to approve the reservation of two parking spaces in front of the visitor information center, 35 South Pleasant Street from 430 p.m. to 830 p.m. on May 2nd, 2019. Shallone's made the motion, the second, Pat. Is there any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? Okay. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. I'm going to take a break. I'm going to take a break. Five minute break. We will come back at that point to the East Street School. All right. We are going to continue with agenda item 7C, East Street School. Are there questions from the council? I think Andy, do you want to just mention the quick conversation at Finance Committee? I think the Finance Committee did have a discussion about it, even though we appreciated the fact that it was not referred to us to make a formal report on this. And we were really delving into two issues. One is how the property had been assessed. And I think that Mr. Malloy, in his question and answer, really covered that very well and was very consistent with what we heard from the assessor, Mr. Burgess. And I actually suspect he might have talked to Mr. Burgess. And the other thing that we talked about was how property is assessed for rental purposes and the methodology that is used for doing that assessment, which has to do with gauging the, it's a business approach. And so there is some effect if you were to rent it to parties that are, are detentments that are paying totally market rate, it would be different economics. But it is still a tax, there's still taxation to be paid. And that's basically the report that we received from Mr. Burgess. OK. Any other comments? Yes. Well, in looking at this document we have here, let's see what this is titled, it's on how we authorize and dispose of surplus real property. It talks about you can, but you're not required by law, to sell town property at its highest price. But you can look at non-price factors. And then it says, for example, if the town wants property developed for a particular purpose, say, recreation or affordable housing, end of Perenn, the town may choose a buyer based on the buyer's experience and financial resources among other criteria. I thought that was interesting. Mandy Jo. I was looking at the same sort of section of the surplus real property disposition policy. And I understand that this property was sort of moving along at the same time this policy was being written. But the policy refers to a mass general law, Chapter 30B, Section 16, the Uniform Procurement Act. So that makes me think that that portion of this memo must be followed. And that portion indicates that if the value of the property is above $35,000, the town is required to solicit proposals by issuing an RFP notice of which is to be advertised. And the advertisement must identify the property with particularity, all of that. So I guess my question is, is that before we declare it surplus? Or is that the RFP that we're asking to be voting on tonight to allow the town manager to issue? Because I was unclear from the memo whether that was before we declare it surplus. Mr. Bachmann. So it would happen. The town has to comply with Chapter 30B. So once the town council says we want to move forward on this project, then we would do the steps, all the legal requirements to comply with 30B, plus any other state laws or local laws that we have to comply with. So that's something that would be the responsibility of the town manager and administration. And it's after our vote. Well, additional? I'd name Hawaii Senior Planner with the town. I think the request for proposals, the RFP, I think in an earlier email from the town attorney, they said you could issue the RFP at different stages. It could be before the vote, but then no one is likely to respond because there hasn't been any commitment by the town to transfer the property. And so the typical process is there's a vote on the commitment of a town or municipality to transfer the property and then issue the RFP so the developers know the town is serious about moving forward with the project. OK. Any other questions from the council? Yes, Pat. I want to thank you, Nate, for putting together this fact sheet, basically. I'm particularly interested in the fact that we're really supporting mixed income development and reaching out for that diversity through this project and other projects in town. Thank you. Any other comments from the council? Shalini. It's just a comment that I think we mentioned that in the finance committee also that not with respect to this particular proposal, but in the future, we would like to see a process of how we are going about assessing these properties and what is it, what is the criteria for the decisions we're making, but not with respect to this because this was already passed. A lot of work has been put into it. And so. OK. Additional comments from the council? We have identified this for public comment. Is there anyone who would like to make a public comment at this time? OK. Seeing none, then we have a motion before us. And the motion is to amend the vote taken under Article 27 of the April 30, 2018, annual town meeting as continued, which transferred the property identified by the assessors as parcel 15A-20, located at 31 Southeast Street and known as the East Street School Property to the select board and authorized the select board to dispose of such property to declare that that property is surplus to the needs of the town and available for disposition and to authorize the town manager to dispose of said property for affordable and mixed income housing purposes on such terms and conditions and for such consideration, which may be nominal consideration as the town manager deems in the best interest of the town. Is there a motion? Pat has made the motion. Second. Evan is the second. Is there any further discussion? All those in favor? OK. You may proceed. Thank you. Our next item on the agenda is the town meeting advisory committee Tina proposal. And Meg Gage is here to speak to this proposal. And there will be council discussion. There will be public comment. And then there will be a motion to refer this to the governance, organization, and legislation committee. Meg? Thanks. Lynn, I don't think anyone here knows me well enough to be on high alert that I'm speaking to you on April 1. But I will assure you that while I have a very well-honed reputation for that, I am saving it for later. Because this evening, I am presenting to the council the proposal. And I'm also reading so that I'll be efficient. Very good. This evening, I'm presenting to the council the proposal developed last summer before our new government was inaugurated by the town meeting advisory committee, or TMAC, to create a council advisory board to take on a similar function envisioned for the TMAC. Let me begin briefly by describing the problem our proposal seeks to address, believing that problem definition is a really important part of problem solving. The regular policy-making process is usually dominated by vocal advocates, people with confidence and knowledge of how to be influential, people who are skilled at creating a sense of urgency. But as we saw at the recent poorly attended budget forum, while public hearings, forums, and opportunities to speak at meetings are important and necessary, they're inadequate. People want more than an opportunity to speak. They want to know they've been heard by their elected leaders and their points of view are considered. Right now, neither the council nor its standing committees are obligated to assess the impact of policy on a range of community interests and needs. I'm sure I know you all would like to do that, but with the extraordinary time pressure you're under, it's hard to imagine you could take on a deeper and broader analysis of impact. The core of our proposal is twofold. First, the creation of an advisory board, not decision-making or even recommending role to carry out research that you request on policy proposals in order to examine their impact on a range of community groups and interests. Second, a specific tool to facilitate this research. And there's a graphic, a summary, I did a summary of it because the whole thing was too complicated to put on a slide, but it's up there for people who are here from the public to see and their copies in the back and you have it in your packet. The group, this group would conduct research on behalf of the council just as congressional staff do for larger legislatures with more resources. At the heart of the proposal is the Community Impact Report Framework or SERF to help, whatever you want to call it, that's what we called it, to help structure the review. And as I said, there's an abbreviated version up there. We created this tool by examining a number of community impact documents ranging from Brookline to the European Union, which has a very large one, very big. The Community Impact Report Framework is a suggested tool to help you legislators assure that a range of community needs and interests have been taken into consideration. Again, this new body would provide research, research that you request, but not recommendations. The advisory committee would look at selected important decisions that the council must make. In the normal order of business, the council hears from committees recommending those decisions. The advisory committee would be charged with looking at both the advantages and impacts those decision might have. Unlike the standing committees which have particular remits, finance planning, transportation, housing, et cetera, the advisory committee would have a broader remit to look at the implications of decisions on the town as a whole, since all of these areas impinge on and affect one another. I've heard, I must say, significant opposition for this proposal and understand that many of you feel the council members should and can carry out this research on your own. But the simple math of time and multiple demands makes it hard to imagine the 13 members of the council could conduct the level of review we are encouraging. Yes, the council can ask town staff to carry out research, but we think this is an unfair burden on our already busy and wonderful town staff. Doug Slaughter writing on behalf of the select board in the letter that's also included in your packet opposed our proposal. I would like to agree with his two central points as reasons to go forward with this tool and the committee. First, he points out that the charter provides numerous ways for the public to speak its mind about policy. Yes, indeed, having been on the charter commission, those venues that we generously put into the charter work for people who understand and know about them. Again, witness the recent budget forum. And it isn't good enough to say, well, we invited you, not our problem, you didn't come. The abundant methods that the charter mandates in the charter mandating public participation do not assure that the council will receive balanced information. Second, Mr. Slaughter points out that in section 2.8 of the charter, it articulates the council's authority to keyword authority to investigate the affairs of the town and conduct or performance of any town agency except those town agencies under the jurisdiction of the school committee, et cetera. He urges the council not to give up authority to another body. Indeed, the council should not give up its authority to another body, which is why this proposed committee and research tool would not make recommendations, but instead carry out research requested by the council. Authority would not be lost. Authority will be gained because the council will make balanced decisions, building council credibility based on research, research that you request and not just the influence of the loudest voices and the most skillful meeting junkies. Two final suggestions. If you decide not to go forward with this proposal, although I hate to make that easier for you to do, perhaps I have two suggestions as a partial steps. First, perhaps rather than creating a new advisory board, this work could be included in the mandate of the new community resources committee that you will panel this evening. Second, possibly if you don't want to go forward this, perhaps the council would use our proposed tool when considering new policy as a framework for asking questions that advocates have not addressed, questions on behalf of constituencies, and community needs that have not been considered. Thank you. I look forward to hearing the lively discussion now. Thank you, Meg. Questions, comments, et cetera? Pat? I'm very interested in this. I was part of TMAC for a little while on town meeting. It does seem to me that there is a way that this group could work with and collaborate with the community resources committee, which really is an emphasis on impact, et cetera. How do you see that working? Or why do you think it would work? Well, it's hard to know for sure, because that committee hasn't formed yet. But it seems to me that the mandate to look at community resources would give them a perspective that would make this possible. I've been trying to think of ways of making this happen without necessarily setting up a whole new additional committee. I guess my other question, and I'm not sure whether this goes to Lynn, you, or Paul, or the government's committee, could we add residents to the community resources committee who were taking on this kind of work? Let me answer that. Since the president and the council brings forward committees, obviously, then the group has taken them and put them together. And then I do the appointments. That is something I would refer. And that's the kind of conversation I expect will take place in the referral of this to GOL, is whether or not there is a way to incorporate the kinds of suggestions that we're hearing here tonight into an existing committee structure. And in fact, let me just take the opportunity to say we've had this proposal before us since we first were sworn in on December 3, second, and preceded December 3, thank you. We made it before we were, before you were inaugurated. Right. And we purposely have delayed it until we got our kind of organizational act together, if you will. And I'm not saying that we have our act together, nor anything else, but we're getting there. And so I think this is the appropriate time to have brought this proposal forward to see whether and in what way this kind of offer, if you will, might be used in light of our present structure and going forward. So it's really in the spirit of that that we're now looking at it. Kathy. I think Steve also had to. Oh, I'm sorry. I definitely think there's a need for this kind of thinking when a new and complex issue comes up that we shouldn't immediately make a decision. My concern about any ongoing standing group of eight people, nine people, whatever the number is, is you won't always have the right people for the issue that comes up. And I think within, it's within our purview, and I've been looking at what other towns do, we can anytime we need to create a working group and say we, here's the marijuana policy as an example of one from the past where we want to institute something, we need to gather information, we need to think of different ways of doing it, come up with pros and cons of alternative approaches, and we can bring non-council members in choosing people based on experience points of view. And I think we should be doing that, in thinking of what happens at a federal level or states that have a lot of money. California has a ledge analyst group, and that's what, they don't go to their legislature, they go over to their analysts, but the analysts are, if it's about roads and construction, you bring someone in like that. If it's about housing, you bring in someone else. If it's broad planning, so the mix keeps shifting and that's what makes me worried. I think we should be doing this process and not jumping into something that is complicated. We should take time to think about it, but we should be bringing in diverse groups depending on what the issue is, and that might change from year to year or from process to process. So that is my thinking about liking this list a lot, liking a way of thinking about something. Okay, Steve? So the Community Resource Committee work task force struggled to come up with the right, it's kind of the right mission and the right mix, and at one point it was a mix of counselors and citizens, and so we came up with something that was voted on, so I hope we can at least let that group meet before we add to it or change its charge, so we should at least have one meeting before we do that. The other thing is there's a lot of concern about existing committees of the town, so we have lots of committees. Some are underused, some are overused, some of the missions aren't clear, some of the missions are too clear, and before we add another committee to the mix, I would really encourage us to think about how to activate all of those committees that are already on the books, and maybe this can be embraced or embodied within some of those existing committees, and then maybe my last point is nothing prevents, there's nothing that prevents any group of people from doing exactly these things. We've seen very effective lobbying groups for say the schools, different positions on the schools, different positions on everything, so there's nothing to prevent any nine people, eight people, 30 people from doing this already, and I'm not positive that this would, that us endorsing this in addition to all of the other boards and committees we have is something that I can support. Additional comments, Darcy? I'd just like to say that I like the idea of including more citizen input. I think that there are a variety of different ways we can do it, like Kathy suggested one. I think that we've shown that we can be creative about doing things new ways, and I also think that we are only 13 people, and we have hundreds of people out there that have experience and expertise that we can draw on, and I think that we've seen in just in the last few months that there have been instances where the public has contributed to our discussion about, for example, public comment about the open meeting law in ways that were very helpful. So I hope that we can think about how we can use this resource that's being offered to us. Shalini? So I really love the community impact report framework. Thank you so much for all of you who created that, and I don't know why we're not using it. If you're not using it, I think all of us should start using it while we still figure out what we're gonna do with this. The surf. Yeah, yes. And along with that, I do feel and agree that there is a lot of expertise out there and a lot of residents who are wanting to contribute and have amazing skill sets, and so figuring out how they can support us in doing more in-depth research in ways that Kathy recommended or the other way I was thinking was at the district level, I would show them, and I'm sure Darcy too, we would love to have at the district level support, working with groups like this to help us think through things deeper. So it could be district level committees, that's one suggestion. My concern that I had reading the document though was some kind of languaging around things like which said monitoring other committees, and that sounded a little like, for lack of better word, disrespectful to the other committees that are also formed by residents, so there'll be another group of residents that's monitoring another group of residents. So, and that's something we want to promote is a culture of respect, and so more in life, so changing, working in a way that we're supporting the other committees rather than we're gonna look over your, so that was one of my concerns. Thank you, it's helpful. Man, did you? It's nice to talk to you, Meg. We served on the Charter Commission together, so it's nice to have you back. And I thank you and the TMAC for bringing something like this to us. I'm gonna echo some other comments of the Community Impact Report framework, at least, sounds completely beneficial to analyzing policies as we come up with policies on the council. I did have a question that I'd like you to perhaps respond to. TMAC was a very new committee, even as it dissolved itself due to the change in government, but my recollection of its formation was it was formed as a, by the legislature, town meeting, to assist the legislature, town meeting, in coming up with sort of the full pros and cons and all sorts of things in terms of policies that were being recommended. And when it was formed, while not required, it had mainly the legislators on it, town meeting members. I know there were a few that weren't town meeting members and it was not required, but in general, it had mostly town meeting members on it. So if we're looking at a similar framework in a council form, wouldn't that imply that the committee doing some of this work be mainly made up of legislators? Since if you're looking at sort of this sort of parallel system, if that's the goal of the proposal to create a committee to do this sort of investigation on a parallel track, then wouldn't it be necessarily a committee of the council? And if it's a committee of the council, wouldn't that necessarily be made up of mostly counselors? So I'd love to hear from you on that. I'm just now speaking for myself. I don't think we saw this as trying to do the same thing that TMAC was, but for the council, that in other words, to recreate the same kind of thing. And I think is implied by my remarks. I think the committee part of it is the weaker part of the two aspects of our proposal in comparison with the community impact report framework. We have a different government now and I think however you all and we all can figure out to do this, the better. Our point is though that you may need some ledge support, like Kathy was talking about, of people who are analysts on whom you can call to get information that you don't have. So, and I don't think those of us who are on the TMAC necessarily are those people. We certainly aren't those people, many of us. So I think that it's a mistake to see a parallel with our we're proposing doing the TMAC 2.0 or something like that. The point we're trying to make is there are perspectives and I've resisted giving you examples because there's sort of times when people, the town did things that ignored perspectives of affected people. That's not helpful, but we all know those things have happened. And the point that we're trying to make is to create some mechanism to reduce that as much as possible so that the voices that aren't traditionally heard are heard and that we look hard to find out what environment impact will this have, for example. And the finance committee does that already. It's just what the finance committee does around finances. Like what'll be the financial and the economic impact of such and such policy as part of what they do. So it's providing some function and it could be counselors but I don't know how on earth you have the time and you may not be, you may want, like you call up your lawyer, for example, and say, could you tell me the best way to do this? And she tells you, she doesn't do what, you know, but anyway, sorry, don't over answering your question. This is a question. George. This is a question, thank you. President, this is a question for my fellow counselors. Where does this go? The suggestion I think was that it might go to GOL. I serve on GOL and maybe the chair of GOL can help me. I don't know what we can do with this in the form that it is at the moment. I'm thinking of an example. We had the ECAC, there you had a group of counselors who worked very hard to create a proposal. They shaped it, then it came to us to look at, that's GOL, this does not seem to be in that form. It seems to be a multiple series of suggestions. Who, where does this go? Okay. Alyssa. So I thought about writing my comments, but I decided that writing out two pages was probably more than you had patience for. So the history of this is not exactly what it is now, and I appreciate that it has evolved over time. That is certainly a fact. It's also a fact that when it was first Brock's town meeting, it was not an overwhelming success. It was a 99 to 81 vote, so nearly a split vote as to whether or not people thought this was a good idea, even then with a somewhat different form of government where legislators would be advising legislators. One of the shortcomings of the plan at that time, which has not entirely gone away, is the idea that at that time, although it is certainly no longer being described in quite this way, but at that time it was going to be a body that was going to be competing for town staff and resources with other bodies, is how the perception of some of us who voted against it was how we perceived the activities of that body. So the reason that I see this body's work, this impact framework is excellent. There is no question, but this is an excellent way of looking at things. And if we aren't looking at things in a way similar to this, then if we don't have the time to do that, then we're not doing our jobs. And so if we had perhaps less clerical tasks because we had more staff support, then we would have more time to do things like this, which we need to do, which we need to be able to talk to our resources, both within our town staff and out in the community, just like all of these excellent people that have been in types of situations that have been brought up in terms of a working group we need for right now. If we didn't have community resources like brand new committee at this point, I would have sent it to GOL for lack of a better place, which is how we've been kind of trading GOL. Referred somewhere. Now that we have community resources, it feels very much to me like we would send these ideas to them and say, given how community resources evolved over time, given what you've been hearing at town council, given all this information, how much of this might you choose to incorporate in what you want to do? And then let's talk about it beyond that because I would much rather say as council when a new idea comes up that we feel like we need more analysis on that all 13 of us aren't gonna go off and do or call all of the people we know with that expertise is I would fully expect the new community resource group to have done that. And when they come to us and we say, well, who did you talk to? And they're like, nah, we just kind of talked to each other for a few minutes. Then we'd say, no, you need to be working on these kinds of things before you bring it back to us. And so that's actually putting a lot of pressure on that committee, but I think that's where the pressure belongs. I don't think it belongs in a whole separate layer of any type of appointed committee at this point other than a council committee. And then with working groups formed as needed as various things come up. And it's entirely possible that one day we have enough working group knowledge that we decide we need to spin something off as its own permanent thing. Just like we've talked about it like a business relations sort of committee that may again someday become a thing after community resources talks about it. But at this point to keep it close but be looking exactly at those things and see how we can manage those. Evan. I'm trying to catch people who haven't spoken yet. Evan? So I have several comments on this but I'll try to keep them minimal. The first thing I did want to just pitch to the council is I think that this proposal brings up some questions about how we deal with proposals from the public. It's interesting to me that this was a proposal that was developed by several members of the public and sent to the council and we are now spending our time debating it. To me if a member of the public wants to bring a measure to the council they should find a counselor to sponsor it and bring it forth. If they cannot do so there are mechanisms in the charter the free petition that allow for public participation this doesn't seem to fit in any of those and I worry about a system where members of the public just email the full council a proposal and then the council debates it. I think that could get unwieldy so I think that's a topic for future conversation of the council not to throw more on rules but maybe something I don't know but to me it seems as though if you are a member of the public who has an interest in bringing forth some type of measure to the council you reach out to your district council or you reach out to an at-large council and you ask them I have this idea would you be willing to bring this to the council for me but to email the council and then expect them to take it up without going through the proper channels without doing the free petition this in the charter to me seems inappropriate. The second thing I'll say is I think I'll echo a lot of what Alyssa said in that doing this is our job and we are all overworked but I think that looking at this community impact report framework and thinking about the discussion we had about the East Street School we did this, right? We had a conversation social impacts we talked about affordable housing environmental impacts there were conversations that were had about green building economic impacts about disposing of surplus property we had that discussion even if we didn't define it as a surf and so I think that the council's already positioning itself to consider these multiple angles and I think that we're fully capable of doing that and especially with the CRC whose charge says may study and consider issues affecting community resources sustainability and economic development it seems like recognizing this was put forth long before CRC was in existence that CRC would be doing exactly what this committee would seek to do and therefore makes this committee seem superfluous and the very last point I'll make because I know I'm talking for a while but this is the first time I talk tonight so I'm gonna take that time now I forgot come back to me moving on Steve so actually Evan said what I was going to say about the East street school but I have a point of order question so as far as I can tell the only motion possible is to refer it to the GOL what happens if that's a negative vote? it first of all GOL only recommends back to the council as do every committee of the council standing committees only recommend back to the council my question is what if it's what if we don't vote to refer it? good question so if it's a question should we amend the motion because GOL doesn't seem like the right place to refer it is that what you're asking? my question is what if the motion I'm sorry my question is what if the motion fails what happens then? either we decide to put it someplace else or the motion fails and the proposal dies Alyssa just to clarify there's nothing written in stone about the motion to refer it to GOL so if somebody makes a different motion prior to that one but that's like our cheat sheet if we don't know what else to do next exactly thank you but somebody could come up with a different motion first thank you yes Dorothy is this on now? there it is okay you don't have to vote yours oh good okay the study of impacts is in fact what I thought I was elected to do and we do it all the time the question of doing additional research research for us on various items has some interesting aspects and there have been a number of people in town who have sent me and not just me papers and really well thought out positions that I have found useful and I have taken seriously my concern is with the structure you know that we were elected in a divisive election but what some people may not know is that we are working together very very well and we know that there will be some issues when you're gonna see some of the old lines again but our week to week business we are not seeing that so the structure of this which nobody's mentioned is but I read it in your proposal is that the members of the committee would be elected by the town council well if you remember our first election it kind of broke along party lines and I think that it would in fact have the effect of driving us back to sides which I don't think is what we want to do now when it comes to the new community resources committee yes some of the things that you're talking about there obviously impact is one of the big thing that's why the committee was formed would we in future really be interested in drawing upon these resources I'm sure but the committee hasn't even had its first meeting it's would be an overwhelming thing it would be destructive towards its natural development and growth to put this in it or on it at this time so I'm saying that I understand the motivations and I'm really appreciative of the the research and the intelligence which is behind the proposal I mean the idea is to help us do our work and to do it in a way that is fair to the community and to all the aspects of the community but I think that at this time it would it's not the right time is what I'm saying one of the other options is motion to defer yes Andy so I guess there are several things that one is just to point out that the memo from Mr. Slaughter represented the select board at the time and we didn't we took it up 40 under the provision that we did because of the fact that it was on December 1st and we were going out of business next the next day but it was a unanimous vote of the select board so I just wanted to clarify that I think that the major thing that I wanted to just point out is that when we have had things come up before this body that really needed development we appointed an ad hoc committee and the ad hoc committee was composed of people who had a particular expertise and interest in the area and I think that that has turned out to be an extremely good model this raises sort of some interesting additional things that we can consider so it's very helpful one is a framework and the second is the idea that we can reach out beyond the council itself as we compose ad hoc committees in the future that's a judgment call that gets made each time and I'll close it out by saying that when we in previous form of government needed to try and address problems with the original zero energy bylaw it was a group that was pretty wide ranging involving a number of different people select board as well as people who are from the original group that brought forward the proposal and somebody from the fire station dpw study committee there was a lot of different expertise that was able to come together and it was formed specific to the purpose and I'm a little bit hesitant to suggest that we create a standing committee as opposed to create the right committee for each proposal I appreciate the framework that has been suggested in the thought of including non council members when appropriate me and Joe I'm gonna address George's and sort of the the referral issue as chair of GOL I see this is potentially appropriate at GOL I can also see it as appropriate at this the community resources committee too but GOL has had been having some ongoing discussions about policy proposals that might not fall under community resources for and when they come to us to the council and they don't really fall under the can now that we know what that community resources committee looks like if they might not fall under that charge and where would those policy proposals go for something like this community impact report framework and the governance committee has already been having discussions about that organizational structure under our organizational part of GOL and as to where we might think that goes that discussion is ongoing you've seen it in some of the reports reported out that we haven't come to any solid conclusion yet so I see this proposal as falling potentially under that portion of our discussion which is why I can see it as appropriate for the GOL committee and as falling under organization do we want to go forward with random ad hoc committees every time something comes up that doesn't do that or do we want a standing committee do we want a non council committee like I can see that falling under continuing discussion that GOL has had so I just wanted to put that forward for the council and I want to address one item to make that we kind of skirted over Shalini mentioned it a little bit when you guys made your proposal to us you couldn't know what the council would do and tonight one of our discussions on our agenda was liaisons that we included in the charter and that council can put non voting liaisons and I saw a portion of your proposal specifically that the CAB would go to committee meeting agendas regularly attend watch recordings as really looking like the potential for when we get to our council discussion as liaisons so I just wanted to acknowledge that you guys did all of this before we've done that and we've actually potentially done some of that or working towards getting some of that going in our operational sense that there might be that already being taken care of concern that you guys foresaw almost and and we're getting there well I appreciate that and anyone I think it's a mistake to focus on one word like like elected as I said in my closing if even this is carried forward that would feel really fabulous because this is really what it's about is having a tool for asking the questions pat I feel strongly that looking at this proposal needs to go to two places it should go to g l for organization and it should also go to community resources because that's what the committee was set up to do which is to study impact uh... and I want to remind us just as a general reminder expertise does not always reside in a college degree or a doctorate so when we look for experts and I would say this to everyone we need to look at the people who are most impacted who live with the daily constraints or issues as experts who can teach us so um... stepping aside as president just as a counselor uh... I remember when this came before town meeting I happened to be in the room because I was there as I often was there for the dpw fire station and as I reflected on this and I have to say at roman numeral three I've already taken the fire station dpw advisory committee through every one of those steps mentally tonight while I'm reading this um... and hope that you know we did our job at least as far as we were able to go um... I did question then and was okay so we would come forward to town meeting with this committee then do what else would they do that our seven-person committee and uh... the staff that we were working with which were the experts in fire and dpw in town what else would this committee have done and I kept asking myself that when I was listening to the proposal of this in town meeting at the same time uh... I have enormous respect I've often used it in my own classrooms when I've taught for the different policy organizations that you know help congress and so forth so I I want to I want and I I still feel it needs to go to gol they are the group that is charged with looking at our governance organization and legislation except for the entire council to look at it again uh... and then whatever they recommend they would come back to us but I've heard several people suggest that they find enormous value in the framework they find enormous value in being able to call upon people who are expert when we need people for various topics that are expert and heaven knows this is a town that has probably more analysts in it than per square mile than just about any other town we have in massachusetts except maybe cambridge uh... and so uh... I'm still very much interested in having gol look at this and then perhaps they may come back and also once the community resources committee has an opportunity to get its feet on the ground and organized they may also look at how they would incorporate some of this policy work as well is there any other comments from the council because we do have public comment on this as well yes elissa so thank you very much to my colleague for bringing this up so on her computer gol is advising town council on matters of internal rules which I don't think we'd call this and reviewing bylaws and resolutions proposed for action by the town council and we haven't proposed that gol do something and it talks about form content organization I'm still not clear why I would want to send it there rather than to the community resources folks to consider what feels like it fits to them with or without actually changing their charge george I am uncomfortable with this coming to gol in its current form I think it needs more discussion more uh... there's good stuff here but I don't see the function of gol to craft some kind of proposal our job is to look at things that are pretty much ready for prime time and we look it over to see if it's ready for prime time we're not supposed to be generating policy creating policies I understand so I think this does need to go somewhere it needs to go somewhere where will be treated seriously given good thought but I really don't think that's the function of gol as I understand it so I agree with Alyssa that if you read the charge uh... it doesn't seem to be our responsibility either an ad hoc committee or sending it to community resources and I understand you're just starting and you've got a lot in your play so maybe ad hoc is the way to go but speaking as a member of gol I don't know what I can do with this and you're basically asking me to craft something for you and it's not my baby Steve I think the most appropriate action is to refer this back to the presenter to bring together a group you know either through the the charter outlines the ways that proposed actions like this can be brought to the council so I don't I don't think it's appropriate that we are taking action without having followed what the charter specifies as appropriate ways that these kinds of things get brought before council so you would prefer this back to the group and then they would bring it forward through one of the citizens participation processes I don't think it's an actionable I don't think we could take any action on this actually because it's I see this as an information meeting so I know because it's not been brought through the protocol outlined in the charter then we're here just talking so it's not an actual proposal that we can take any action on that's how I see this as a member of g o l i just want to reinforce my colleagues are saying that it almost seems logical to send this to g o l but I don't I we would have to literally craft something and hope that we are embodying uh... the sponsors uh... beliefs that doesn't necessarily seem appropriate and to be honest given our schedule and agendas uh... doesn't seem like a prudent use of our time uh... where I guess one thing that i'm confused about and i think that steve sort of spoke to this is we're having a conversation of where should we send this and i think the first conversation is do we even want to move forward with this uh... because I've heard most of my colleagues speak and I don't know that I have a completely clear sense of what the feeling for this proposal is but to me uh... to ask for a committee whether gb g o l or c r c or ad hoc to spend time going through this uh... I would hope would mean that the council thinks that this is a proposal that is worthwhile to go forward with uh... and so i would either support what steve said and said send it back and have it come back to us through a proper channel uh... in a proper form or i think the council should give some sense about whether we think this is worth moving forward with so now that we're ending up in a very different place even before we've had public comment I totally appreciate that the idea of this in theory having been brought forward to a counselor for sponsorship haven't talked about originally that didn't happen and it doesn't say that in the charter and i am low as i have said on the byline with the stan resenberg conversations uh... that i do not want people to feel like they have to use relatively clunky and cumbersome parts of the charter in order to get something addressed so i appreciate that in an ideal world had in a different level of organization and this hadn't existed in a different format that actually existed before we even came to office we might have done things differently but given where we are what i am suggesting and may later make a motion toward is referring the content of the idea to community resources i am not in any way asking g o l or community resources or anyone to create this committee absolutely not no way know how what i'm hoping is that having the community resources look at these exact things that oh yeah that makes sense we would do this that at the end of the book and that will be sufficient if then the petitioner still feels like they want to continue to push for yet a separate committee because they don't have the patience to wait for that then they can follow the process in the charter but once they follow the process in the charter going to end up in the same place like we are going to just do it because they went through the process we're still going to have to re take it apart refer to someplace else that's just adding extra steps to accomplish what i'm just really losing my place here yes so indy joe megan iar probably and makes probably wondering how did we not follow the charter so i'm going to i'm going to stand up and say this came to us appropriately through the charter process uh... the charter section eight point two a allows resident petitions signed by one or more residents the fact that an email comes to us from a resident you can consider that a resident petition we don't need a hundred and fifty signatures when it comes to us like that our action is discretionary it's when you get up to one fifty that we have to do something but this came completely appropriately through that process and i think megan iar now like we did put that in someone was wondering why did we put that in and this is why we put that in i think i'm not my charter we can choose to act we can choose not to act when it's less than when it's not a formal group petition but it is appropriate for any individual to bring to the council a request for something under the charter and it is allowed clarified that point is there further discussion from the council elissa briefly while that's true there's no requirement that we put it on the agenda if one person asked for it so action is discretionary meaning it never needs to see the light of day it saw the light of day it's going through a kind of process it may not be the preferred process of some members here we obviously have a difference of opinion but nothing's wrong at this point and we're just trying to figure out the best way to express our enthusiasm for the ideas without creating another level of work thank you any other comments from the council we are having public comment is there anybody who would like to make public comment on this I see two hands first person Hilda Hilda Greenbaum 298 monarchy road and there are a couple of misunderstandings here that I wanted to clear up and the first one is that we were an elected committee we're not just a group of citizens but we were elected by two hundred ninety two town meeting members because of the need that was seen for our committee parallel to the finance committee and from uh... it was mentioned that we already have groups that come in and advocate for a certain thing like the affordable housing on east street you think you looked into everything maybe there were things that the group that came into advocate and then the thing that comes to my mind is what what really started this team out on the first place is zoning and planning so many times it didn't used to happen thirty years ago when we used to have planning boards that voted five to four and seven to three or whatever people actually would go to planning hearings so that they could express a point of view or if they didn't understand but it got to be the point over the last ten fifteen years you go to planning board hearing and nobody listens so people stop going and then planning board has never had a devil's advocate well they did have a devil's advocate advocate and her position was not extended for the second three year term somebody who would bring up well this may be this and that may be that did you look at it planning articles would come to town meeting not having been totally thought through and then town meeting looks at it and says well we don't understand this and we don't understand that and it gets sent back and they don't like it coming back all the time and it's because there has never been a group that would look at the zoning bylaw independently of the planning board hearing to say well why do we have buildings that are sixty feet tall when the bylaw says fifty feet where did that come from it was there we voted for but in fifteen pages of bylaw you don't see it this committee would have picked up something like that I really think there's a need for it somewhere I joke around and say you know how we're going to balance the budget next year by my lottery figuring out when you guys are burnt out and we'll go back to town meeting but you really need somebody besides the group that's bringing a proposal forward to look at the other side and be the devil's advocate and that's what this is thank you for hearing me thank you for your comment additional comment yes john hornick fifty nine carriage lane I would say a bit over a year ago I generated this idea was reshaped by many people and you have that product before you I want to share a couple of things related to that first I shared held this frustration as a town meeting member I found it very difficult the pros and cons of a warrant article were never presented and why is this why but confession to make I also spoke before town meeting as many of you know on behalf of warrant articles and when I spoke I believed in the warrant article that I was speaking for did I talk about the possible negative effects but things that town meeting should consider would go against what I was proposing no I did not I never did and as Hilda said people would ask of committees you had a unanimous vote or you had a five to two vote was it anything else considered that was on the negative side why do we only hear what's positive that's what the structure was and frankly that's what the structure still is as Steve noted you have many committees in town but I will tell you as the chair of one of those committees that when someone brings something forward from a committee what you're gonna hear is what they think is right now that may be what you need to hear from their point of view but it may not be what you want to hear or hear exclusively from your point of view a committee may try to take this idea of multiple impacts into account but the truth is when they settle on a direction when they settle on an idea when they bring a proposal forth they're probably mostly paying lip service honestly or they might say well we considered A we considered B we considered C and we just think it's all positive so then the question becomes why a standing committee and both Kathy and Andy spoke about the fact that this could easily be handled by ad hoc committees and there's a part of me that agrees that it is important to bring in a variety of voices and people with differing expertise into this process on the other hand my feeling is this kind of process will go much more smoothly if there's a standing committee that creates a culture and a set of ideas about how you go about it so whatever the issue is whether it's the East street school or some element of the budget or something that comes from the planning board there are people who are set up to pull in the experts in a reasonably efficient way to hold a public hearing if that would help gather information about the pros and cons to do what you need to do and I do emphasize pros and cons I do wanna recognize that Mandy Joe was asking for a cost benefit analysis I think you're looking for something broader when pros and cons are include things beyond the financial benefits or costs in any event it is my view that having a standing committee it need not be very large to create a culture that second yeses things that come before you as a matter of policy I mean obviously each of you can do some of this research and do some of that second guessing I know all of you and you're all capable but your time is limited and if you want this to happen you have to create a structure that will make it happen thank you. Thank you for your comment is there any other comment at this time? Yes, back in the far corner. Hi, it's Krista Osterling rising and I just wanted to say it's very interesting hearing what everyone has to say about this as well as everything else because you guys are in the process of trying to set up a new form of government and make it work and it's an incredibly time consuming and exhausting job for you. I know that and I appreciate it. I also wanted to thank George Ryan who made himself accessible to me when I called him and also I wanted to thank him and all the other town councilors who have made their phone numbers available to people so that we can call you and it's a lot more difficult to call the town and have it referred to somebody takes a little more time but anyway, so I just wanted to say I was trying to think about whether I had anything more to say than what everyone else said. I really liked what John said just now and what other people said about the importance of having all viewpoints presented and when you call on experts they tend to be people who consider themselves experts but a point was made and I'm not sure who made it earlier that everybody has expertise of their own. Everybody is an expert and the people who are gonna be affected by whatever the policy is are the ones who should be considered and often that's everybody but not always. I think it's really important and I appreciate the fact some of the councilors went out of their way to say I think it was Mandy and Meg had been on the charter commission and we set it up specifically to make it possible for people to get access to the government and if you narrow it and say, no, you didn't go through the right channels you have to start over, you can do some of that but if you really want community participation if you really want us to be representative government you have to make it reasonably easy for people to get access. If you have so many rules and you immediately turn to the answer that well that you didn't approach it the right way people are just gonna give up so I think it's really, I appreciate the fact that people spoke up to the idea that Mandy in particular said we set it up this way so that people could get access to the government. So I guess that's what I'm basically saying. I'm a member of town meeting advisory committee almost because someone suggested that I should run I wasn't on town meeting I never have been on town meeting but I think that it's really important that whatever form of government we have be accessible to everybody people of low income people with less education people with obviously of other languages it's really important that everyone feel they have a voice in this government and so I appreciate people who stood up for that and I just want to encourage you to do that also I guess I personally would encourage you all to list a phone number that you're accessible at other than the town phone number because that makes it harder to reach you. So mostly that's what I have to say I think that the idea of having a standing committee that's available to assess the impacts to not take the place of the research that any of the committees would do but to supplement it to be helpful is really important and I think it's a good idea I know that I understand that there are more committees than I was aware of and it is difficult filling all the spots on the committees so however you guys wanted to work it out whether you wanted to have it be a subcommittee of another committee or whatever but just the idea that there be a voice and that there be easy access for everybody to the town government is so important and that was one of the ways in which the town council was, the charter was promoted that it was going to make government more accessible I guess we'll find out whether that's true or not but I wanna thank you all for the hard work you're putting in to try to make this work and just encourage you to make it as possible as you can for people to access the government and to have a voice because that's what I have to say. Thank you for your comments. Additional comments at this time? We're back to the council for discussion. Alyssa. I move to refer the content of this report to the new community resources committee for consideration as part of their framework as they develop their work plan not to say to create a new committee but to consider all these pieces of information as they develop their lives. Pat has seconded for their comment on that motion. So if I could, again, I'm just trying to make it super clear that I'm not asking anybody to create a new committee. I'm asking them to consider the particular piece parts since this committee is just about to get off the ground but to me that is exactly the committee we created for the purpose of second guessing. That's what they're there for. I wouldn't have agreed to have that committee if I didn't think they had a purpose and their purpose was very clearly laid out in their charge to examine all of these issues and this will only help them figure that out when they can adopt it or other frameworks as they so choose. I wanna also make clear that I don't like wasting people's time and so the TMAC was created by a town meeting article in fall of 2017. It was not elected until May of 18 which of course was after the charter had passed. Therefore, there were nine people running for nine seats. They were elected and they had no actual function. They never advised a town meeting which was their only function which was to advise a town meeting. They went ahead and held some meetings. They got interested in continuing to have this conversation but it's like we took their time and they didn't really get to do anything with it and so I don't wanna see that happen again and so I would love to see community resources look at this and find ways and they could be some of the first people they call on when they need additional help for something. There's been a motion and a second or there are additional comments. Yes, Evan. Just a question on your motion was for CRC to look at the content of the proposal. Do you mean, I mean the proposal is several pages. Are you talking about the entire proposal or specifically this community impact report framework? I guess I looked at it as just all the material as in isn't this interesting. So for example, I'll use the example of rules. So when we sat down and we were trying to figure out how to deal with public comment, we looked at how other communities were doing public comment. It's like they've already been handed a gift. Community resources has already been handed this gift of a bunch of material they can consider as they're starting to develop their frameworks. Steve. Additional comment. There's a motion on the floor. It's been made and seconded. This be referred to community resources to look at its content to refer to community resources to Margaret, do you want to try reading the motion for me, please? Thank you. To refer the content of this report to the community resources committee to consider the content of all pieces of the proposal and to incorporate into their future work. So that's the motion and seconded, Dorothy? No. I need clarification on the last sentence. Is the motion that CRC incorporate this plan into their work? No, it's to consider including it. It's to offer them this information as being, I think we've all discussed many valuable aspects of it and that we think they should consider it so that when they come back with their first report back to us, we say, hey, we remember that really cool slide. How come you didn't use any of that? That clarifies it, thank you. Yes, Steve? So I'm going to vote no on this, not because I don't believe in the importance of what's up on the slide, but I'm go