Look at my race card. See, here. I'm on a race car, do-do-do-do-do. I'm on a race car. Okay, let's see. Are we live? Or is it gonna be weird? This is when I started acting goofy to try to be entertaining before we know if we're actually live yet. Oh, there we are. Boom. And we're live. Hello. Oh, yeah, you gotta, okay. So, hey, everybody. Welcome to this week's Town Hall on Education. I'm Erica Reddick. This is Generally Eartable. And today I have a couple of guests with me. One is my illustrious sister, Shannon Bundy. And she is an educator here in Vermont. She's been working as a teacher for 20 years. 17 years. 17 years. It's basically 20 years. It's basically 20 years. Okay, close enough for government work, as they say, which is what we're going for, right? Government work. I'm trying to be elected to Senate. So, therefore, 17 equals 20. Okay. No, seriously, though. Shannon, you worked at, can we say where you work and where you work? So, Shannon started her career at MBU in Swanton. And then where did you move to? And then I moved to Manuski High School. And now I'm at Burlington Technical Center. And what do you teach? Currently, I am a work-based learning coordinator, which means that my role is to get students into internships and co-ops and get employers to work with our students and instructors at some nutshell. So, little plug there, if you are a small business owner or someone who you have some kind of a trade or something where you think you could benefit from having interns and where said interns could benefit, you should call Burlington Technical Center and talk to Shannon. Are there any careers or businesses in particular that you're looking for right now? Well, can I say what our programs are? Really quick? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, we have an aviation program. So, anything related to planes, we would love to talk to you, even if you work on your own or a pilot, et cetera. We have criminal justice. We have culinary arts. We have two health sciences programs. So, we're looking for anybody in the health sciences field to be a guest speaker or anything like that as well. Like acupuncture, even? Athlete puncture, homeopathic stuff. Oh, I need that later. Love that. I'll get you some people. Don't want to put it that way. We have an advanced manufacturing program, a welding program. We have human services, which is a huge spectrum. We, because we have our own preschool in our building, we have all of us. Go faster. We also have design and illustration and digital media. So, if anybody wants to reach out to me to talk about being a guest speaker or anything of the like, let me know. I love it. Okay, so, but you did teach science. Oh, yes. I was a high school science teacher for 16 years. Okay. So, that's what that is. Okay, now also with me this evening is my good friend, Jeff Comstock, who is...  Yes. And for Vermont Ag. Yeah, with the Vermont Agency of Agriculture. So, just so you know, Shannon, do you also yell at people when they call soil dirt? Absolutely. Not grow plants in dirt. That's right. Whatever, okay? You nerdy science people. All of the middle school students that I worked with over the years when my kids were in school at Lyman Sea Hunt, now know that soil is not dirt. I've been yelled at her by her so many times. Now, Jeff, you obviously, you're a soil scientist, you have a specialty in ag and in science like that, but tonight I've asked you to come on and talk about education. I was super fascinated when you shared with me the presentation that you and Nancy and others had put together for us here in the new North End of Burlington, showing the sort of the really crazy way that our education system is both funded and recorded, the way that they're tracking all of the information. So, Jeff, I would just like to say, I just want to brag. Can I humble brag on you? Can you humble brag on a person? Yes. Is that a thing? So I just love, Jeff, for those of you that don't know, Jeff and Nancy are both retired and his wife, Nancy, and they said when they retired, we want to still be involved in our community and we want to make sure that we're participating and sharing the wisdom that we've earned over the years and really make it a better place. And so I love it. That's how I met Jeff was the neighborhood planning assembly here in Burlington. And so I'm just really excited to have both of you here with me tonight to shed some light on education, funding, and outcomes here in Burma. This is a big question. A lot of debate happens. A lot of, here, let me, we're going to do this. Let's figure out, let me, I'm trying to figure out the spacing for us. Okay. So, Jeff, what do you think, so we all, okay, here's where I'll start. Sarah Carpenter all the time, one of our city counselors here in Burlington has this talking point that she repeats regularly. She says that 75% of our property taxes go to education funding. Would you say that that is an accurate statistic or percentage? I would say that the actual number is probably between 65 and 70. That is our family experience. And that number may vary some for others depending upon whether their income sensitized or not in the way that their property taxes. Okay, got it. And so then. Now, now your thing that some, a lot of people maybe don't know is that, or what I saw in your presentation is that. It's not just our property taxes that are funding education. Is that correct? Oh, yes. And that, that's actually. Was one of the core motivations for. This community forum that. We helped organized with the help of some other NPA members and school board members. That we. That occurred back in November of. 2018. And one of our underlying. Issues that we wanted to address was the general, what we saw as a general lack of understanding. About how education is actually funded. What goes into the budget. When people actually vote on it. You know, that we just felt like there was a huge. Degree of misunderstanding. Yeah. And so although much of the conversation about education funding was revolves around. Property taxes. Yeah. You know, it's important. And one of the things that we learned with the help of. Some folks from the state tax department. Agency. Is that there's several other significant sources of funding in addition to. Homestead education. And the non homestead or. You know, property taxes. And it. I'm actually going to share that screenshot. Okay. Let's see. I can't wait. See how this. To our, to our viewers. Okay. So this is what I was going to talk to. And as you can see from this block chart.  Homestead. Homestead education property tax. Actually. Contributes about 41% of the total. Education fund. Homestead. Property taxes. Is 26%. And currently in Vermont. 100% of our sales. Tax and. 33% of our use tax. I'm not sure about it, but it's a lot of money. But it's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of money, and it's also a lot of money. It's a lot of money in motor vehicle registration. That money also goes to the education fund and provides 26% of the funding to education. And then as you can see down below. There's. You know, meals and rooms, tax. Purchase and use. And the lottery. So there are, do you know how it ended up over the years that that was like how did we how did we start taking more and more money from all of these different funding sources.  I guess that would be the same thing wouldn't it eventually. Essentially, yes that the education fund in 2018 was about $1.6 billion larger than the total general fund the rest of the general fund budget in Vermont and currently in the projected FY 21 budget this the education fund has grown to about $1.8 billion. So that bucket. That's a big bucket. And so at the legislature. They had to find a way to fill that bucket and eventually started looking to other revenue sources to fill the bucket. So Jeff, do we know do we have any idea what's not being paid for that needs to be paid for. Like what, like what budget got cut in order to add money to the education fund like did we cut roads.  Did we cut like what if we cut from those that that money used to go to in order to redirect it to education. So that's a conversation that occurs at the legislature every year to make a decision about what we as the state are not going to do in order to fill up the education fund bucket. Yep. So that conversations happens in many committee rooms around the legislature. Yeah. So that so this brings us around a little bit. Now, you and I, we were talking earlier about how it's not just education that's being funded with that funding right so it's not that we're taking 65 to 75% of your property taxes and putting it towards education, plus the 26% funded to sales and use and then the meals and all this other stuff. What other things are being paid for out of the school budget. That cause that to rise so much that fun that that cost. Well in my conversations with other school board members in recent years. I have the knowledge that the school districts have become the default social service agencies in many communities. And so a lot of counseling and mental health and other kinds of socials, what would ordinarily be considered social services are rolled into the school budget and you know, distributed and accessed by community members at and through school. And that's being a lot of that is being incorporated into school budgets and education funding. I would like to build on that coming from when you ski, I've seen an evolution where it's not just social services but also medical services, even though when you ski has received grant money. Well, where does that grant money come from taxes. A portion of the budget is allocated to a doctor on site. So they're they with the new buildings that are being constructed they're expanding their nurses offices so that they can have a doctor in there as well. They we also transport students daily, not the same students but daily off site to go to dental clinics, and then we also have dentists come in to do screenings. Wait a second the school is transporting children to dental appointments. Correct. Okay, so I want to hold so I want to just take a moment and I want to step all the way back. And then maybe start again but we may jump back into the space. No one on this in this town hall is saying that we don't want kids to have medical care and good education and be healthy and well because I know when you start talking about money and how messed up the system the bureaucracy is. It's really easy to start sounding callous and cold. Right.  So we're we might come back to that again because oftentimes what I found is when I have tried to have conversations about fiscal responsibility in our school system, I immediately get attacked as if I don't care about the children.  I mean she just like went off on me one day and I was like. So me saying that parents should be responsible for their children. Their medical care and stuff like that means I don't care about them. Yes. I've heard it myself when I was a teacher raised concerns about the responsibility of schools. Providing for children. There was a time when we were in school that our parents were responsible to buy us notebooks and pencils and things of that nature. And our students are now purchasing those because we cannot ensure that our students will have the materials that they need in order to do their math problems, because they don't show up with pencils, and not that they forget them at home or something. So parents don't know, or don't think to get those supplies for the children, even when we're calling and saying hey we need these. Well don't you use laptops and computers. Still need to, you know scratch out your answer. So then, so then, so here's and I may be digging and I may be diving into soon, but this is kind of what we do here. And how do we have these conversations, because so much of this is tied up into emotion. And in a real serious conversation about our culture and our society, we're, if we're having, if we have such an epidemic of people not caring for their children that the school has to do it. And I think that, I mean, I, which I don't think is what's happening. I don't know that I want to say that they don't care. I think, again, I've worked in two very low income low socioeconomic schools. Number one they just don't feel like they can. And there's a sort of reasons number two they don't know any better. And then there are the third group, which they're so wound up in their own lives, and their own trauma that they're not thinking about their children. They can really think about themselves and then so then. What is the role of the school to step in there and fix that, or is it the role of the community to step in and fix that argument that comes back for me is if the schools don't do it, who is going to. And what that's the justification that they use for everything, but everything. So I think that sort of gets at the sort of the underlying point to make here is that is that there is, there is an efficiency to be gained by providing using the school districts, you know, as a system and a location for providing some social support services. But the real issue is that is that to get to some level of awareness and financial or fiscal honesty about what's being paid by whom and how, and that. And if you want to support these, you know, community service activities happening at school, the bottom line is that those services should be, we should be honest about recognizing and paying for those services out of a human services, or social services budget, not the education budget, because you know where those those resources are taking away from, although they may support learning, they're being taken away from direct learning activity learning. Yeah, so instead of having shop class and civics class and home act and things like that, you're paying for. Oh, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, it's, and we're still offering the civics class, we're still offering well, you know, okay they're not teaching. They're not doing well. If they're teaching them civics they're not teaching them. They're not teaching them how the Constitution works or taxes. But again, anyway, the schools have become a repository for it. Well, have the teachers do it but that's another conversation. But the reason that budgets, again I'll speak mostly for when you ski, they keep going through they keep getting approved, and they keep going up every year. It's not like you're adding more classes but you're not taking any way. It's because these social services programs, I can't tell you how many behavior interventionists now work at when you ski. Look at the behavior interventionist behavior interventionists. Yeah. So, your kid has a breakdown. He's got trauma. What do we do we want in back in class we don't want to suspend them. And we have him or her work with a behavior interventionist to try to resolve the inner demons. So, okay, hold on. So I feel like they've cut Jeff off. No, that's okay. Did hold on because okay now I have two things I'm like oh, where do I go with this did you have something you wanted to finish Jeff. I would follow up on Shannon's comment in that there are I mean this conversation about interventionists as part of the support staff at school. There are a whole cadre of learning, you know, subject matter interventionists on in the school budget, as well as the other behavioral interventionist and the sort of the argument you hear, you know, when you listen to school board conversations is that we have to, you know, we have to solve the behavioral mental health issues before students can learn. Well, now, but so I can interrupt. I can interrupt. I'm the host. I warn him that I would interrupt everyone I get to interrupt because I'm the host. He's just said okay. So, um, now one of the things that I've been really concerned about because you know we have these be we have so now that's a salary and a benefits package probably a very nice salary and benefits package. So it's very expensive for that interventionist. Now how much of the reason for the need for that interventionist is because things like they're passing kids that can't read a grade level. So, if you have kids and we know this is a, this is a problem and places like that, that you have kids being passed that cannot read or, or are not proficient in skills at their grade level and they're just getting past. And so can I say, or even close to so so you were having to teach high school science. Can I say this. Oh yeah. So Shannon was having to teach high school science, upper level science classes at a middle school level or lower, or lower, because the kids couldn't read. So how much of a behavioral intervention. Do you need when when you've got a kid who's now being passed and passed and passed. When his schoolwork can't read probably is getting picked on how many problems are they getting disciplinary with school, how much of that escalates to the point where now, if they just kept the kid back and done their job as a school system that kid wouldn't be that way anymore. I wish it were that and I wish it were that black and white. Okay. I wish it were that black and white. Okay. There, there are so many tears to this issue. However, yeah. Um, sorry. I just want to add to that thought and say that children are not stupid. I quickly understand when they're being, you know, when leniency is being applied to their own achievement and behavior. And, you know, and so the more we lower the bar in that regard, we're not really doing them a service we're doing them a disservice because, because at some point. I've heard the argument that, oh, well, we don't want to hold kids back because it's going to impact their self esteem.  They, they quickly learned and experienced, you know, follow what feeling what feeling what falling behind is, and that in itself becomes a self esteem. Destroy this is what I'm saying. And so then we end up meeting all these special educators. Every kid has a what is it called my IEP. Yeah, every kid has an IEP. However, when in fact the problem started in at the root, which is the home. Oh, well that too. We are we're not even talking about that, which is the we're not even let's one thing at a time. Okay. So in all seriousness, it is true, like, we expect our teachers to not only be teachers but also therapists, social workers, disciplinarians, or more morals apparently and values. Mike says I have a son with ADHD and need a pair of sometimes there aren't enough para at the school. It. Okay, I can't read that last part, but, and then he said they do borrow money from the highway budget to pay for school taxes when there's a budget shortfall. See, this is the thing is, we want there to be services for people who need services, right. We want people to be able to have what they need, but it can't be because of superficially created problems that we create out of our school system. Right. So it's one thing if we have a para educator for kids with ADHD or other problems like that. It's the only other thing when we create the problems by not holding them and their parents accountable. Right. Did you want to say something Jeff. Well, I can sort of a test from sitting in on a number of school board meetings in a year or so ago that the Brunton school district, for example, made a conscious decision to remove behavioral interventionists and learning interventionists from the high school and shift those positions to the early grades to one, one, two and three, you know, in the elementary level with a recognition of some attempt to sort of head off this phenomenon you know, develops by, you know, you know, allowing kids to advance when they're not really meeting grade level so I have to, you know, say there is some recognition of this phenomenon and some school districts are attempting to deal with that, but whether whether they have enough resources to actually do that or not. And I wonder too about. I mean there are some kids that just should not be in school either. And this is another one of these things so we're going to get into all the uncomfortable conversations and nobody wants to talk about, you know, when I was a kid, we had the special kids who couldn't get along with other kids had to go to. And it seems more and more like they don't care. And they're integrating kids that create problems. I think those are the exceptions though is it I really do okay after working in two pretty tough schools, I think those are truly the exception. And because you told me some stories to about kids that you had in your classroom that couldn't even really learn. Yeah, but again, as Jeff said, if we were starting those interventions earlier. If parents were held accountable to support their children at home. It wouldn't get to that point. Yeah. And, and, and again, it can't be the school so solely the school's responsibility to support those children the parents have to be doing so much work at home. Well that's our and when we were in school. Our mother read to us. We did times tables at home. Well that's me know said that when he he got like a B or something like that in math, he got a bad, a bad grade in math, and his mom made him do math drills also. Yeah. And again you don't want to make learning a punishment. But because that's going to do the opposite. But I've asked my students, how many of their parents engage with them and say, Hey, what are you learning. What again kids don't always tell you the truth and you have to take everything with a grain of salt but it just doesn't happen. Every student wants to learn. I don't think I believe in my core. It's, what is impacting their ability to do that. And this is where the behavior interventionists come in. But again, it can't be the sole responsibility and that's to take that on. And that's the thing is we as a nation decided at some point that we wanted to provide at least a basic education to our populace, which I think is good, and I think we should. But why is it other people's job to pay for your kid, and your kids special problems. Yeah. And I don't mean that to be. And again, a lot of these conversations sound harsh. Like as an example, I've known kids. Yes, it is like it is a full time job it is teamwork. And this is the thing is, it used to be that we had a two parent home. You know we had two parent homes, where kids were coming home after school, they had mom at home. More than likely they had mom at home, and then dad came home, and they had people to help bad people to read to them they had these things they had that stability, you know, and ways that they were able to support their families. People used to be members of a church, or a lions club or a rotary and so people helped each other that way to grandparents live nearby or in the house, because you had multi generational homes. I don't want to be serious about the circle that doesn't exist anymore. No, so how are we supposed to, with the reality of what we have today. Yeah. Go from where we've gone, you know, from one spectrum all the way to the other where there's, again in my experience parent, massive decline in parental involvement. And, and, no, so the parent answer to your question is too bad. Is you change the culture. Yeah, the answer is you change the culture, you change the expectation. We have we have moved away from expecting parents to end. Not only will we moved away from personal responsibility. Well, yeah, but anyway, okay. So one of the things I really hoped. Oh, let's see we got some comments here. Discipline is something seriously lacking in modern society. Michael, you are not wrong. I might meet up. My husband Benjamin, my sweet husband Benjamin, we don't want that has said that the worst thing for people is the lack of fear. Wait, how does he say I can't I'm not going to say it right basically like per people don't fear consequence anymore.  There's a there's a healthy fear, you know, and it doesn't exist anymore because if, if you cast we don't speak, we don't speak to kids anymore.  I remember when you told me that you couldn't hug your students, because it might be perceived as something sexual. And then I went to visit you at school crying, and then I went to visit you in school and found a young lady with high waisted yoga pants and a half shirt showing off all of her business. And that that was not a violation of any kind of dress code because that would mean that you were sexualizing her and that you were then the problem.  So I want to respond to Mike, who said teachers parents all need to talk work together and work together. Mike, I would like to say I agree with you. I don't disagree with you. However, that just doesn't happen. The students whose parents we need to see the most don't show up. We, I, I would, I would call home to talk to parents about the good things were happening in my programs, and I didn't even get a call back from those. And I, and I know parents are busy. Sometimes, but these are your children. Okay, we're going to be careful. Yeah, don't start lecturing people. Yeah. No, I'm just saying. Yeah. It just doesn't happen. Parents aren't involved in their children's education, especially at the high school level middle. It really starts in middle school but you see decline in involvement with parents. Well, and that's, I mean, okay, well that's not when they need you the most. Yeah. Okay, we're going to go back, we're going to, we're going to change the topic up here a little bit. The Universal chart of accounts. Do you want to talk to people about that what that means. Tell them about, sorry, I got distracted. Hold on, hold on. So for everybody that doesn't know what a chart of accounts is because I learned the other day I said that, and one of my clients was like, I don't know what you're talking about Erica and I thought it was something that everybody knew. But for those of you guys that don't know a chart of accounts is the list of categories that you can classify your expenditures to. So it might like office expenses or meals and entertainment or rent or whatever that is your chart of accounts. So when we're talking about the state of Vermont and what and financial statements, we're talking about a profit and loss, which shows the revenue received, as well as the expenses of the state. And then a balance sheet is the assets owned by the state so that's land money cash, other things like that, and liabilities so who we owe money to, and things like that. Oh, okay. That is a little accounting 101. I bet you didn't know you were gonna get counting one on one here. Let's talk about debits and credits. No, we're not going to do that. So, you see my eyes. I'm crossing over. Okay. So, Jeff, did, did this, did the legislature agree that they were going to do a universal chart of accounts or tell everybody what that whole conversation was about. This conversation and awareness about the extent to which school budgets were supporting social service, buried in the education budget. In 2019, when, when the legislature passed the, the Education Funding Act, they actually put a provision in there to require school districts to begin to implement a universal chart of a uniform chart of accounts excuse me for expenses and income at school because up to that point, school districts were tracking their categories of expenses independently and there was no consistency to get at this argument about how much are ending for X, Y, and Z. So, starting a year or so ago, the agency of education is now implementing that, you know, school districts are starting to implement a uniform chart of accounts for education funding so in the coming years we may be able to have a more articulate conversation about exactly what school budgets are paying for. And then that fosters the conversation, is this the right budget for this service or for this prep or for this activity, and should that money, you know, some of these be funded in a human services budget, even if we continue to provide them through school districts as a, as an efficiency. Well, not what I mean if we had, you know, as an example, if we needed a psychiatrist or a dentist, I can't get over that. I, we're gonna have to come back to that. One, or two for a school district instead of one at every school, or whatever, where it's, you know, that work person is part time in multiple places, probably, and then you can consolidate the services. In terms of using this tool to gain some savings or some efficiency, you can then ask, should, should some of these services, should they be paid for out of our Medicaid budget, should some of these be charged to, you know, families with health insurance if they have it, so that some of those, you know, activities or costs that are being borne by school districts be borne by another pot of money so that money can be spent more directly on learning on education. So, but this is the question I have for you because this is always confounded me, and maybe you got an answer at some point in your, in your research. It's been a while because because the internet is is pretty prolific at this point. And you big witness, but we used to have to buy textbooks every few years. And when I told my principal, we don't need textbooks, he said, you need to spend the money on textbooks, because if you don't use it, we're going to lose it. Which was a warrant to me. Is there any sort of more itemized accounting, what did you call it accounting charts chart, excuse me chart accounts, where it's more explicit as to what the funding is being spent on to that minutia. Here might be in the budget. I think you would, you would have to have your conversations with your district financial officers and to get. Yeah, somebody's got that. That's my concern is, I go to school bar meetings. And there are the school board members, me and maybe one other person. I watch RETN, and the plate that the the auditor, the theater is empty. People don't know what schools are spending the money on, with the exception of the board members or the sometimes the principals and teachers. How are we disseminating this information to the larger public, we're not, and then whose responsibilities, mine, yours, yes, the parents, and that I think that and Jeff, forgive me, you're, I'm totally speaking and I know nothing, but people just don't take responsibility for any of that stuff anymore. People don't show up, not that they ever did, but you were going to talk to him. Oh, well I was, this sort of goes to the part of our motivation. Several years back to try to put together this education funding seminar for our community is our underlying or overriding motto if you will is this idea of creating informed and engaged electorate. So that people understand and this goes, you know, far beyond school budgets, but, you know, get an engaged electorate so that people understand what they're actually voting for and to try, you know, I think that the biggest way forward to, you know, solve some of the problems that we are concerned about is for more people to vote. It's, I have a, I was reading a fact sheet from the State Tax Department about education funding that said at town meeting day a year ago and I think it was probably the off year election in 2019 that 18% of the registered voters in the state of Vermont voted on town meeting day. That's so sad. It is sad and. Well, I think about Jeff, not only that, think about how many. Our two house reps are running unopposed this year. How many of our city counselors ran unopposed this year and last year. We don't have people are unwilling to participate in the process. They don't they don't vote because they don't think it matters anymore. People won't run for office because we're treated so despicably by our neighbors.  But it's, even if they do, do they know what they're participating in, and what they're voting for, and it's a resounding no. It seems like with a lot of the education stuff Shannon. A lot of it seems like it is pushed by the, the whims of the day, the passions of the day. I think that's how the founders with anything unless you have a, a large passion, invoking issue voters aren't going to come out. Apparently, South Burlington have the most voter turnout ever for this town meeting day this year. Because of the school budget budget. And yet. I mean it took it took another few cycles through, but it's still past and it was huge. So, did Jeff, did you have something that you wanted to add there. Because I mean, promoting voter turnout is a is another strong interest of mine but it's sort of takes this conversation off in another direction. I know it's hard not to because it's because here's the thing is the same problem with voting is the same problem with education is the same problem with a lot of things here that we're dealing with in our culture. It's, you know, lack of personal responsibility, lack of participation, lack of knowledge apathy. Yeah. Well, yes, yes. But again, like Jess said, if we started having that conversation we're going to go into a place we were not. Fine, I know some of it's apathy and some of it's I'm so overwhelmed with my life. But this is all.  Like what are we doing with our lives. If not the things that are most important, you know, taking time with your kids, like we've created this culture in this society where we have to have an ever bigger house and ever nicer car. And of course is one of those things in Vermont that drives me crazy. If you're poor, you have the, you have the poor tax of having to get rid of your car if it's not up to snuff for people. That's not a conversation. Angry, but I totally lost my train of thought. I guess I would, you know, to try to tie this back to your theme of education and education funding. Yes, the whole voter awareness is the link between, I mean, folks like to complain about property taxes.  And then they, and then they choose not to vote.  Level, you know, and the relationship between the state education fund, and the decisions that their local school boards make. And, and, and in many cases, what their school board local school boards are not capable of impacting on their taxes and yet they love to blame their property taxes on the school board, but then still not voting so. Yep. And that's what I lost it again, I had it and then I lost it. I just want to say this. I was able to do a lot of amazing things without spending a single dollar in my classroom. Now, when I say that, did I have lights? Did I have the internet? Did my students have one to one technology? But the best experiences that my students had were when we were in the community, working with the community, and then we would come back. And we would design engineer solutions to issues around our city. Yeah. Now, again, does that take some money? Yes. But we didn't need to have the latest and greatest, et cetera, et cetera. It takes money to educate children. Yes, and expose them and working in the tech center. I'm so grateful for the technology that we have for our students so they can go into the real world and use the industry standard equipment. That's all that's different from your average math class or. Right, but that's, but again, what the point that the point or the most important thing in what you said is being in the community. Okay. This is what happens when our tax dollars get so out of control. We say, hey, we're spending all this money on schools. So you know what it is your responsibility. You know what, I've done my part. All right, I've paid my taxes. Now you do your job. I'm not going to worry about the outcomes.  Thanks. And then people move on with the day. So we've disengaged people. We've, we've told people that they don't matter. And we've taken them out of the process. Whereas you can do more with less money when actual human beings are actually just being in relationship and working with other human beings. I know. This is a crazy concept. It's shocking. I know my mind blown. But I talk about this all the time, you know, it's like, people don't get sober, because some government bureaucrat is handing them out suboxone. People get sober when another human being is willing to get down in the mud with the person suffering and help lift them back out.  You can't. You cannot create a government program that will care about people. You can hire caring people. Well, and that leads me to the next piece of the state of education is I worked. I'll speak for when you ski and definitely the tech center but I've only been a year. I have never met a more dedicated group of people, let alone educators, and the abuse that is heaped upon them is astronomical. Really? From who? From administration, from parents. They are students. Students, but you expect that a little bit more. But if you have a failing student, it's your fault. Especially when you get into the high school, you know, you've got to get them graduated, but they're coming in at a second or third grade reading, writing, math level, etc.  It's your fault. How do you moralize the pressure? I, I, it is why I left teaching. Okay, hold on. Jeff was saying that. I just know, hold on. She left teaching. Because y'all suck. Okay. No, I'm just kidding. No, but seriously, but I just I want to make sure that the pressure was literally breaking me. And I remember you telling me one time that you wanted to go into teaching, because you wanted to inspire kids to love science and you thought that that was the way that you were going to change the world. And they basically crushed that out of you. Not basically, they crushed that out of you. Yeah, if, if I didn't leave when I did, I don't know if I'd still be stealing. And so this is what that, you know, I don't know if I have a still in education though, but I found my niche, a way that you can still be there with kids and interact with the kids and laugh with the kids. And I'm still teaching science though every day. Yeah, every day. Yeah, my heart broke, my heart still breaks, but I couldn't be the devil anymore. Yes, because Jeff was saying, you know, when we have such low expectations of our students and I don't know how many times I've said this to you but when you lower the bar so low for the students. It's almost like you don't like them. You, I remember you telling me this was like 10 years ago. Sorry, Jeff, I remember you telling me that people rise to the level of expectation. Jeff, what was exactly the point I was going to make is that, you know, we need to advocate for the theme that expectation is not a dirty work. And it is now what you know where is the school district that said they were getting rid of grades all together because grades are racist. Oh, racist. Yes. Well, most schools are getting rid of apparently grades are racist. It was in California somewhere like San Diego or San Francisco or something. Well, this is, I mean, as we move to, hold on, wait, I'm sorry.  No, grades are not racist. I'm a huge proponent of the proficiency based system so we're moving away from ABC and can you demonstrate that you know this. Can you demonstrate that you know this and can you demonstrate to this level this level or this level. Long discussion. I don't know. I'm not buying it. I'm not buying it. What's the difference between a B and C and good and well not that good. You can you can still that sounds like you're trying to be gentle with your feelings again. No, you can assign very easily and I did it very easily. It wasn't easy, but I did it where I said okay. I created the, basically, the result of this. No, no, no, no, this isn't a if this if this isn't a if a is. Okay, so a way with the camera. Oh wait, no. Hey, I forgot equals way I can't do this backwards. Proficiency. Okay, I can't do this. I mean it's still if the person is proficient. Hey, do you know how many students I had that when they got to me, the parents said, but they're a student. Well, what does matter. No, what does an a mean. If you if a student sounds like is a nice student. Oh, but they're so nice, and they work so hard, and they've tried so hard. So we're going to give them an a tell the camera we're going to give. I want to ask Shannon, if, if the format being used for performance based grading. If you can make a parallel to a job description. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, no problem. You know, this is an opportunity for you to rebut what Erica is saying. Yeah, because, you know, if you structure your performance based grading system as if it were a, a job performance or a no problem. Okay, that's fair. Okay, okay. So, well, your job says you have to do this, this and this, and you've only demonstrated that you can do this and this, you're not proficient. Well, and so so does this deal with them like the stuff like. Okay, as an example, I have friends that are terrible at taking tests. I'm a very decent test taker because I have good memorization skills, and I'm a nerd. So that is the stupidest thing ever. I'm a terrible test taker. Okay, so in a proficiency based system, you should, and if you are meeting the expectations of the standards that are set out. You should be able to pass the test, whether whatever kind of test it is, because you're practicing and practicing and practicing. Now if I am as an educator, I'm only asking you to memorize and regurgitate and bomb it back. That's a bad teacher. My expectation is I'm going to create an assessment for you that not only do you have to apply the facts, the content, but then problem solve with it and design. Which is how kids used to, we used to get taught critical thinking skills and lateral thinking skills. Did we? I don't know. It depends on the class. I feel like I don't challenge you. Not so much. Maybe that's because of because of. It depends on the class and it depends on the instructor. Maybe is that just because of the way we were raised by our parents too? Like we're just really curious. Okay, I'm getting nerd. I'm sorry, I'm nerding out and I'm just having a conversation with my sister now. Like we're sitting at the dinner table. That is the thing, right? It's like we don't just need people to be able to do two plus two. We need people who can also, if they don't know the answer, how do I go find the answer? How do I not lose my mind and learn how to take care of myself in certain circumstances or whatever. And that is usually, I can work with a kid at a second grade reading level. I can work with that kid at a second grade reading level. What I can't do is work with the students who says, I'm so overwhelmed. I'm shutting down. I'm putting my head down and I've got nothing for you. I can adjust my teaching six ways to Sunday. What I can't do is work with somebody who's just not showing up. Yeah. So, Jeff, that hour went by really fast. Is it really an hour? Yeah, it's eight o'clock already. So I want to just make sure that, because we kind of went all over the place. We had a lot of talk about the funding done. We talked, when is that. Charter accounts do. To my understanding school districts are. In the process of implementing those. Now, so I think if you, if you say there was a deadline. I don't know if there is. Okay. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if that would be. Probably at the agency of education to figure out. Which districts. Have made progress in terms of implementing. The chart of accounts. I think, I know, for example, the Burlington. Made the transition. Prior to that legislation being passed. So, okay, so. I'm going to go back to that. I'm going to go back to that. I'm going to go back to the template. And they're moving. Currently into that. Yes. Can I ask a clarifying question, Jeff, about this. Did the AOE provide a template for it? Because most school districts will not give up that kind of autonomy. Um, That's okay. I'm going to go back to that. I'm going to go back to that. I'm going to go back to that. I'm going to go back to that. I'm going to go back to that. I would actually have to get in touch with the agency of education to. To get a good answer about that. Yeah. We should have all cities and everything on the same chart of accounts so we can read it. Because we get dinged. The city of Burlington gets dinged for the lack of transparency in our financial statements every year. And I've complained about this before. I cannot read our financial statements. I'm sorry. Did you lose your roads colored glasses? He said, did you lose your roads colored glasses? Or the really, really thick one. Dancing unicorns come through it. You know, somehow they figure in the middle of a pandemic, when we've lost all this revenue that going forward with the Moran plant, redoing the Southwest Parkway and all the other things. So we're going to go back to that. Oh, and a new tech center for Burlington tech. Well, because we're going to be turned into a super fund site. Did you hear that? That's a possibility. BHS might be considered a super fund site. Yeah. Well, BHS won't be, but the tech center F building, whatever. And again, that, that's hyperbole. Whatever. So having a background a little bit in that makes me feel it's going to happen. Well, where did you go to school? Where did you go to school that you didn't get help from your teachers? I'm just curious. Because I've heard that before. And it's interesting that I think that. Different schools have different stories. Oh, Mo. No, if your children went. To a new ski. Well, it's different. Where she went to school. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. As Erica knows, as my family knows, I gave up.  I was in on Saturdays working with students. I was in that seven o'clock. At the evening I was in that seven o'clock in the more while I was in there at six with kids there at seven. And I know many educators that do the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Before we get wrapped up here, Jeff, is there anything else that you wanted to share with folks from the. Slides or anything about the school funding? We didn't really talk about that as well. I just, I would. How much did act 46 make things worse? Yeah. That is not my wheelhouse. Okay. All right. I'm just curious. Yeah. So my understanding is what did you call it? Super students or. What was it? Like how you count kids or. There was some expression that you. Equalized student. Yeah. Yeah. Equalized student. What? Okay. So. In terms of that. We, we often, we as taxpayers think about.  But in terms of education funding. All of the money is allocated based on this concept of the number of equalized students in a district. And what that means is that. So you start with. Each kid. Counts as one. But then there are several categories where. For example, if a, if a child is on free and reduced lunch. They get an extra 0.1. If they have. IEP. They may get an extra 0.1 or 0.2. And, and then, you know, there's a couple of other categories that add to it. So. So one kid walking through the school door may count as one for funding level. And the kid right next to them may actually be 1.3. Student. So everything that you see in terms of education funding. Is based on not the actual number of kids, but the equalized students. So it's kids plus these additional cost factors. That are added on top. So is the attempt then to try to bring more money to the lower income school districts. Or school districts that have additional resource needs. Whether it be. Help mental health. Or, but that could even be just a matter of who is providing it. What do you mean? I mean, like, not all schools provide all the same services. I imagine. No, this is, this is, this is based on. Like the student who has the ADHD. Yeah. So, you're going to be graded at a 1.2. And then that IEP plus free and reduced lunch. Now you're at a 1.5. And so that student is going to get one. And I'm making it easy. 1.5% of the total budget. Right. Right. Right. Right. So it's not necessarily it's so that, that child can get the services he or she needs while at the school. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, right. But that's what I'm saying. So. Doesn't. But if, but this, but not all schools offer all the same services. No. So, yes and no, they're supposed to. Really? Oh yeah. Yeah. Maybe not the dental clinic. Yeah. I was going to say, like, what, like, Fletcher. Fletcher elementary probably isn't driving their kids over to the dentist's office. The fact that. No, but they, they would have the dentist come to them. They would have the dentist come to them. They would have the dentist come to them. They would have the dentist come to them. I can't. So if there, if there is. Evidence that there are, there is a lot of dental disease in Fletcher. They can apply for a grant. To have these programs come in. So those are, those kinds of things are paid for by grants, not necessarily. Education. Some budget. Again, it depends. What you're thinking. What you're thinking. Is because. When you get to the, when the legislature gets to the step of setting homestead tax rates and. You know, based on school budgets that. It all depends on. student has a direct impact on your property tax rate.  Yes, there's more complication than we can or should go into this evening, but it's part of what creates discrepancy between school districts in their access to funding. And I just have to say, if you can't understand something and how it all works and all the moving parts and pieces, then maybe it's a little too complicated and should be... Unfortunately, that causes people to disengage, which is the exact opposite consequence. Well, and that's what there's so many of these things that I go, I don't want to think bad of people, but it's hard not to feel like it's intentional almost. Do you know what I mean? Like at a certain point... I think it's the whole adage of good intentions and the road to hell. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, and that's what... Because there was a discrepancy. You know what? Hey, little fletcher of Vermont. Hey, didn't have... This program isn't working.  Take it. Oh, we're doing a skit. We're doing a skit. Here, now take it. Here's some more money. Oh, that thing's still not working. Let me give you some more money. Oh, it's still not working? Let me just... I hope she didn't need that. I'm sorry. This is very dramatic, but... Seriously, that's what we do. We just go, oh, we're not gonna look and discover what's not working about what we're trying to do. We're just gonna say that, well, we'll just throw more money at it. And then we don't have to... And that again, and then if we just throw more money at it, then I can turn my back and not be responsible for it because someone else will do it. Oh, it makes me so crazy. Okay. Did you know there was a soap box under here? I'm on my soap box. Okay. So, did you know I actually hosted an event many years ago called the soap box form? You remember that? The soap box form. But I don't remember yesterday. Every day is Bloor's Day. Bloor's Day. That is... I've never heard that before. I've said it only like 400 times in the last week. Pretty funny. And I'm gonna use that. The confusion play. Benjamin says the confusion play. That's what it is. When they don't want people to participate, they make it so that people don't want to participate. That's my select board in my town. Oh my God. Well, and now, you know, we have Burlington. See, Burlington having meetings, violating open meeting laws. That's every time. Doing things behind closed doors. I mean, you said Grand Isles really bad about that, right? But even when I was working with the town manager, it was amazing. When I started running for town office stuff in my own town, she met with me and I said, these are the things that I've seen. And she said, oh, Shannon. Oh, Shannon. Simple, simple, naive, Shannon. That happens everywhere.  Yeah. I'm swampy, but I haven't decided if I'll put it up or not. Go to a even smaller town. There is no degree of separation. The nepotism and incest in small town Vermont. Focus grasshopper. Ah, okay, okay. So it is now 816. So we're gonna wrap it up. We are doing virtual town halls every Monday and Saturday from now until the election. You can find out information on my website at erichoretic.com or ericapersenate.com. I know it's crazy. Both of those go to the same place. There are links or go to Generally Irritable on Facebook, Generally Irritable with Erichoretic. That also has my events page. You can donate to the campaign. Go to erichoretic.com and donate advertising. We need some advertising these last couple of weeks. We need to figure out how to motivate all the people who are like, screw this, I don't wanna vote. I'm not gonna vote. I had somebody tell me that this weekend. I'm not gonna vote.  And threaten people. I don't think that's legal. No, you round them up and you like them by some point. Yeah, I think that's maybe ballot harvesting and probably highly legal. That might be even kidnapping or something.  Get it, shoot it, but I'm fine. All right, thank you everyone for joining us tonight. Thank you, Jeff Comstock again. Everybody, Jeff is my neighbor here in the New North End and he and his wife are awesome and he's really smart. One last thought, Erika. Yeah. Politics is not a spectator sport or neither is democracy for that matter. Amen. Democracy is not a spectator sport. Yeah, everyone should be on the field this year. Everyone should be on the field every year.  Get in the game, volunteer for a campaign. We're doing lit drops, targeted lit drops this week and this weekend where we're catching, we're getting the list of people and households that have not voted yet and we're doing a targeted lit drop this week. So if you've got an hour or two, direct message me, call me, text me, email me, however you know how to get in touch with me. If you've got an hour or two, I'll give you a walking list and some flyers to put up in some different neighborhoods around Chittenden County. But, and if you don't live around here, I've got a lot of people who have participated. Oh yeah, Mina says, stop reffing. And I totally lost my train of thought. Oh yeah, come do flyers, an hour or two. Stop talking, Benjamin, you're distracting me. My handsome husband is texting. Good night, Erika. Commenting, what's that? Good, say good night, Erika. Dang it, Jeff, say, oh yeah. Benjamin says, hi, Jeff. All right, everybody, Jeff, Comstock, thank you for joining us. Shannon Bundy, thank you for joining us. You're welcome. Talking about education and good. Support your teachers. Oh yeah, do that too. Okay, hold on. Now nobody's saying anything. But now with money, just kidding.  I'm kidding. Candy. In the right way. Oh, chocolate. Okay, don't say anything embarrassing. I'm stopping.