e you spend your entire life Trying to show that that games and that media doesn't cause violence because by the way 100 200 300 pieces of research have not shown Once that media causes violence in a causal relationship No, no, no Never I know so surprising right and then you have to constantly deal with this shit and you and you have The really hilarious thing is that when I started my phd work the people who were saying well the media causes violence We're all the right and now it's all the left-winging people who are just like oh the media causes violence and we're so angry because We don't like the way they treat women. No, no, no, I can show you every study on every Every Exact level that shows this does not cause violence. It does not cause sexism It does not cause anything because media facts do not have this level of impact upon human psychology It has been proven for 80 years.  Why did they keep appealing to this? No, and also in the first last of his game.   I don't see anyone praising him Like I just like I'm just picturing him.  Look Look at him. I mean No one is saying that these types of people and these types of appearances shouldn't be in these games It's just such a bad argument. Yeah bill. I forgot. I forgot guys. Sorry like chat is like bill bill the gay hermit like I also like him. Okay. I liked every other side character in the first game But not in the second game also this it's just That's it. Sorry Jim is trying to say that the outcry against abby was for the purpose of getting her removed from the game It's like I'm pretty sure everyone knew that wasn't gonna happen But maybe removed from the food.  No, how I don't know. I don't even know if there's gonna be a third game at this Yeah, no idea what they're gonna do story-wise they sit up They sit up abby and live be like the new jack and daxter in the third one and then it's like No, there's nowhere else to do with ellie. Joel's gone Everyone else is gone And so what are you what do you do? Maybe the prisoners in the jail? Yeah, I think the thing is They set up abby and lev's journey to where if the fireflies are that's they're going that's going to be like the third game, right? But no one likes them. So I don't know where you're gonna go with it They could do a game that's based in between the two timelines of first and second The sum of us. Yeah, some of us.  I disagree with you. There is a girl out there that has Is good with pink hair and her name is sakura miko, so Let's say She's uh, she's a vtuber so Is that pink hair? I guess it's pinkish. Yeah. Yeah, it could be pink. Yeah, it's sakura, right? It's kind of pink.  Is it real? Are you taking away? Wow, wow good job good job rags I'm gonna deny the existence of japanese people. Oh my god. She looks like an anime character Are you denying anime? Rags is denying everything I can't do his argument.  Oh, I'll jump on it Yeah, she's just And I'll just I'll just translate it in japanese then you'll sound really cool. All right.    Okay, whatever We need to go back to gym. He's only got three We've almost done it guys Babies Stop speaking in made-up languages gosh None of us can understand enough livery we have a reputation to protect here.  It's too late. It's too late They're more popular than you which means now you followed them Oh my god, so I changed my avatar to like people will think you're the one full guy who's like no i'm above this Oh, yeah, I will wear a normal jacket Yeah, what could he say for three minutes? Oh, I oh we'll be surprised. Oh shed. I guess we'll find out Guys, I've been more than a little antagonistic with today's video and some people would argue You shouldn't be antagonistic. You'll only rile them up. But what are the other options? I mean one of the options is to actually fence them. Yeah, he's arguments.  Jesus christ.    It doesn't it's just it's just like But like yeah, I'm well underway with this Mando review and I'm clearly taken an unpopular position So from a strategic point of view Insulting people baselessly every three seconds probably isn't going to be a strategy that I decided Yeah, I was gonna say there are multipliers here such as he's really vitriolic He's doing it quite a lot and he refutes his own evidence while insulting people It's just it's just like what are you what are you doing, buddy? You gotta Don't work on this Look at that sinuring face. He is yeah Wouldn't it be hilarious to see him in an actual live debate with someone about this? I mean, he's been on podcast before let's have him on. Yeah Come on, Jim. We'll talk to you about arms Desire You could try and debate their points as if they have merit, but like You've already assumed their points don't have merit. Well, that's your first mistake. Yeah, I was gonna say Jim Even if you don't think they do We go ahead They think the same that's like whenever you're like there's no point in debating them because they don't have any merits like Why do you think they hold their position? They think your point has no merit? Yeah, they think that they're correct and even if it's for a reason that isn't correct that they think it is So you're going to have to Do something about that something reasoned them into the position that they have And the only way to the way first off the way to convince them otherwise is not to insult them and call them horrible names Not this strategy you want to take Um, it's one it doesn't work very well You don't want to be antagonistic because then they won't listen to you or think that you're saying anything in good faith And they won't believe you just out of spite. Even if they do believe you they're not going to show it Um, oh, yeah, that does happen.   Do you see the indented putting on Right there. I wouldn't you're being very fat phobic right now. Yeah Oh, I know it's like with my glasses the problem my temples it drives me crazy and seeing that just makes me Bro, I just got some new glasses. I have to advertise to my animal and They are a little bit on my head even though They're not my head isn't that bad, but it's just like that's trying to mess up there a little time Yeah, I have I mean And what can I tell you I am an open pansexual queer whose relationship with their gender especially recently has been a little He's right, you know, this is as manly as it gets around here I wonder if this is like a back door that people use for why they can't be manly or don't see themselves as manly They just go straight to Like I'm just having gender issues instead of just saying I'm just not a noro I just not typically masculine in the normal way Like I don't know. It's weird. I get so is he saying like he's he's personally annoyed because he's Not sure of himself right now or something. I don't I don't know No, that's it 100% Abbie in some just will connected way represents him in some version Well, I believe that Jim I don't want to speak for him obviously But I believe that Jim does not identify currently as Male or female he identifies as something in between. I I'm again not trying to be mean I think that's just because he's a really shitty man I think that's just just how he identifies And that may be why he's trying he likes this kind of representation. Again. I'm not trying to mean I just think that that is his But hang on then if that if that is the case that's him acknowledging that abby's gender It comes across as ambiguous I don't know. Yeah, I don't know Well, that's not really too much into it. It's just all that is bringing that up in relation to it because it seems like What you feel represented by abby then like no, that's not just a week Also, it's a weird thing to make as part of your argument, you know Oh, it's definitely 100% weak. I I'm more than willing. I think all of us here would probably be would agree That we're all willing to if somebody says, hey, could you please refer to me by my preferred pronouns That we would be willing to do that but that it's confusing when somebody starts to use that as a Explanation for their actions or whatever. Do you know what I mean? If someone came to you in private and said, hey, could you refer to me by these pronouns? I think we'd all be pretty cool with that, right? Yeah with jim sterling. It's a little Confusing yeah Yeah, I don't know. I wish you'd just like critique the game and then No one cares jim Yeah, well actually it's just a game.  Oh No one's doing that jim. No one's doing that my dude Wait, maybe someone is saying that jim should exist though Says he's a biological male. He feels that's denying his existence because he sees himself in avi I guess Because because people are saying it's hard for her to have those levels of muscle Therefore she does not exist Therefore denied like he's like oh like my existence has been denied.  Uh, you mentioned getting the joe model. Um, I did get Someone sending me this but I don't I think this is the only um Upper model for joel Yeah, I was gonna say I don't think there's ever a time where you can see his arms. He's always wearing I don't know Abby's arms looked as thick as that compared to him wearing the jacket on top. So, yeah You gotta work on that joel He's working on it in hell people in my life And I've got friends who are being just having their very human rights debated by turfs Galvanized as they are by the way, uh, what human rights are being debated? Oh So are are there any doubts about his political leanings at this time? Everything I just said about how he he deserves some respect because he just insulted turfs and really wow I'm kind. I don't know. I'm kind of with the turfs not gonna lie That's a joke. Dang it. That's a joke I just So that's trans exclusive radical feminists. Yeah Yeah, I can sympathize with that I don't I'm no typically no friend of feminists, but I can sympathize with the turf I mean, I just think that that jim here's kind of a problem with people on his side of of The bay or whatever you want to call it.  And then you get told that Biological men can essentially decide that they're women and now they get all the things that you've been fighting for for biological women That's You know, do you think you see how that might cause some issues with feminists? That rags because that's racist.   So just Just accept it and take it in the right to be different Debate it I don't think that's what's being debated is the right to be different. Yeah, that's this whole yeah They can yeah, that's that's not exactly what's being questioned. It's not a matter of It's not a matter of someone external to me believing whatever the hell they want It's a matter of them trying to impose upon me what they want me to acknowledge and believe That's the difference.  It's not what I'm stopping you When you have biological males who are competing against biological females I don't know like that's that's that's a little more complicated than just the right to be different Yeah, whichever end of it you whichever end of the argument you're on Like we'll be sorting that out for years probably trying to figure out how to make it I don't eat just just how does it how do you even make that fair? It's like, I don't know because we've got all these rules already about uh Men and women being separated into different sport categories.  This is good. Absolutely. We'll find another game controversy to Absolutely Sure, something else will be released suited up. That's gonna be yeah You're escaping at the right time, sir. It's just about to get hotly political You couldn't he couldn't just you know, how to separate video for whatever this is because I thought we were just talking about whether the muscles were possible At this point really Um, but yeah, thank you for popping in and of course, uh, I look forward to whatever new video you're putting now Hell yeah Yeah, absolutely Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Has he been asked the question as internet? Yeah, yeah, yeah Oh already on a previous stream, of course All right, all right never mind. We got him covered Take care of my dude. Yes. Um All right, let's just let's get to the end. I suppose To see general people's existences disputed when she's there No This is so weird. This is all over the place. I don't even know what to do with this no, he's saying that feelings are hurt in real life and then the fictional people's existence is being validated Which don't hurt anyone because they're fictional What are you talking about? But it really seems like he is drawing a parallel between trans rights and abby Who is not trans but it seems like it's an open acknowledgement now that her gender is ambiguous and she looks like a man we've gone to the broadness of just People saying that's a good point shahad People saying like it shouldn't be possible for it to be that way in that environment is denying her existence thus denying many people's existence of whatever else in in real life and it's just like oh That's an interesting leap. You've just made. Yeah, I don't think that there's the same thing at all even separate in the fact that games in real life Correct in that. Yeah, they're basically saying Uh, or they want to say that yes, she is a trans woman But we can't say that she's a trans woman because that would be I don't know.  What are you doing? Like it's for me. He gets lost a lot of the time In the universe for for that character to have those muscles Well, it makes sense in that universe because that's it does in a universe where clearly abby does look the way she looks That's not video games don't fucking have laws that we have to go by like universal laws Yeah, if if the idea here is that it's possible because we see it The fact that it's presented as possible is what the problem is So because it doesn't make any sense Right rags are completely correct There's all kinds of research on this in that people can be convinced to believe something is realistic if they are presented with a Realistic representation is something however That doesn't mean that because there is a realistic representation of a thing that means that it makes people think it is real That's just those two things do not follow and there is no evidence database that supports that hypothesis Just fascinating to me like whoa, whoa Yeah, this whole thing is fascinating It's like if a guy in a game points to another guy and says that's a married bachelor It's like oh, I guess that's possible then It's like no that doesn't make any sense Like well, but but he said the guy in the universe said You're like, okay, this is it reminds me of the the hyperspace kamikaze in tlj The problem is that it has been established to be a thing. That's what causes the problem Like we can believe it. We believe in the universe. You can do it and again, that's the issue That's what creates all the problems is that it's shown to be a thing that you can just do Just saying something that in this in the universe means it's possible doesn't mean that it can't be contradicted by its own rules in its own universe So that point is a flaw and humans in the last of us universe work exact same way that we do There's no like there's never a point in the game where they go. I don't know We've got genetic research that has changed all of us. Nope.  They could have easily worked out something like that Sadness give an answer that is somewhat satisfied. Yeah, and what they don't they do instead They were like she's next to a gem and she has a workout schedule good enough by and is like Exactly it was an active choice by the developers to not make something that made sense Yeah, you you cared enough to have that in the game So That means that we're not that we weren't before but doubly so now it's something that's worth exploring It's not a it's not a debate It is, you know, some of the comments we looked at here some of the comments I've seen continue to sprout and spew forth from people's diseased mouths. I still Trying to claim Those comments he was that they're probably cherry pick to prove his point also. It's not really the spectrum of the debate Exactly. It's not representative of what most people are complaining about like the main discussion is on the manner in which Joel dies That was like the big big discussion And I hear this a lot from the especially lefty types like it's not a debate They just assert things are the way they are and even though there is a raging debate going on They're like there's no debate to happen. It's not a yeah 100% really is No, it's not a debate.  It's like no that that was a debate that we had we had that debate one side one Like this is how we get forwards I mean if everyone can just Indignantly declare that there isn't a debate to be had and they're correct Well, then everyone could do that and then boom holocaust Yeah, well that that is the problem, isn't it? Is that no, I mean that really is the issue, isn't it? Well, I mean that's how it happens.     I mean at this point. He's kind of emperor of the world speaking like he's like this is This is how it works. You know, like all right then Such unicorn escrarities that they shouldn't be seen in a video game and that's what it all comes down to These people shouldn't be seen and these people shouldn't be heard. No, no, no Not not at all. All right, let me never person of indeterminate gender. No If they're not the absolute bog standard factory default setting protagonist No, that's not that's not at all. Jesus. No, I can I also just comment on his like He dismissed the like the jim schedule of abbey, right? Like if it made sense people wouldn't make a big deal out of it That's another that's the thing that it will be just a few minutes. Oh, she has a schedule. That's fine But the fact that people are bringing it up in conversations is Makes abbey's existence like oh my bad abbey's like physique even more Special in that world. It's it's yeah 100 percent Yeah, it's so weird so Sorry, you finish no shad. Go ahead. I just hate this argument Just trying to understand his argument and trying to give him the benefit out here is saying if you do not show these more exceptional People who fill in more of their kind of gaps of the human experience. You could say In video games, they're never gonna be seen that that seems to be his Am I correct? He's saying that they don't want them to be seen these these theoretical like like I imagine he would put us Yeah, yeah, it's like ew. We don't want those people on screen. No stop because if we like translate that into the thing that is already snarkly Reference twice in this video about um black people in medieval, you know based history, right? It's like that doesn't mean black people aren't in video games But that seems to be what is equating it to is that a video game is made to be more historically accurate to represent Say the medieval period and therefore black people are going to be very rare If at all even present in many locations Then he's saying that uh, they're excluded from all video games. That's no it's not what's being said at all It's not at all the reality again. There's a lot of yeah, there's all kinds of stuff You could make video games about that I guarantee Particularly I think if the way that video games are right now People would want to make games about let them all your son my empire I guarantee you will guarantee you who would want to make games about those places in history If you flip flip it around and say If there's a game about, you know, the aztec empire or something like that Then I wouldn't expect nor went to see a bunch of white people running around in it. Yeah, I mean I'm trying to deny the existence of white people Yeah Like you can't just once you swap this around it not that it works on its own But it gets more and more silly the more almost identical Examples that you pull out.  We can make fun of young white people all the time. That's not a problem Yeah, white males white males.  We can make fun of them and group them and categorize them as much as we want Just don't do it to any of the other of the precious protected groups They gamers don't want them to be around They will scream about oh force to diversity when they see just a shred of diversity games are less than real life is Games are less I doubt that Yeah, I doubt that too.  I mean So I'm concerned and all those old shows people were Fresh fresh Belair like oh, yeah, those were great shows. They were live Sanford and son is hilarious Why didn't he want me man? Well, you couldn't relate to his issues because he's black So why is there this sudden mindset that unless you have you know every single Gender on the endless list that is now being created being represented in video games People will not be able to have enjoy your investor or identify with characters and things like that Hasn't been the experience for all of media before this stuff started get more traction. So They only had black and yellow people in Simpsons How do you think how do you think I felt I couldn't connect to anyone? I'm not black and I'm not yellow. So yeah, what do I do? I just What am I supposed to feel there was some doggos in there though? You sound so pressed guys. I'm so sorry so pressed What's being thought coming from a woman? Thank you.  Yeah, like you could convince us if you had arguments and evidence and things But isn't this proof like he's just dishonestly debating people quote-unquote debating for views isn't yeah Yeah, this is yeah with this test to me Yeah, you're not he's not debating sitting there alone in his screen screen room Like you're not doing it and if you do consider this a debate You should treat it a little bit more seriously because you're not going to convince anybody Give a if you are going to convince them with these kinds of arguments then they could probably be I'm not scared of things that are different. Mr. Sterling. I am annoyed at things that are bad You feel the monologues I missed that. Did he actually say that people are afraid of things that are different? Yeah, he said that Yeah, could you get it back more? I'll like probably dial it back a bit Oh, geez. Oh god.  They're just very scared of things that are different That's the thing. You've just reduced their whole position down to that and that's not true at all All right So what what does he think people are scared of exactly? Things that are different Lady they can't talk to Anything that is different in any way no matter how minuscule is just unacceptable Just afraid that other people on the planet do not share his precise political opinions. That's it Interesting And that's why they don't thank god for me Even though they should go and thanks god for the very least they should thank god that joll died because he was shit We did it why joll is a pretty incredible character and why he's very very beloved and why joll did nothing wrong at the end of the last of us Yeah, he made absolutely made the correct call It's a very juvenile kind of Um, the ending is brilliant The ending of the first game is so good I think weekend warrior is right. I think this might be On the part of jim an attempt just to attract views. Yeah, I think he hates He hates joll and he hates the last of us See, I don't know last of us too I think he actually thinks I don't I think he actually thinks joll is a bad character, but is purposely trolling it and etc Like me and christmas in halloween like in reality No, actually screw halloween. Um, how dare you? Halloween is kind of like a bad christmas Yeah, it's like oh, I could dress up for four hours and get some candies Easily the best No, no, it's not guys. It's time to accept the fact That you are denying the existence of christmas because you like halloween Christmas is welcome to exist Exactly. I'm not denying the existence of christmas. I'm just saying halloween is better. Mm-hmm Sounds like a bigot argument to me You're liking halloween makes me a bigot. That's so be it grasp of reality there Let's be in the ring. Let's fight Oh I don't want to debate with bigots Wow Oh, yeah, that's right. Oh, you gotta do it. Yeah. Um, there it is I don't do any bigots Wait, let's chat. How long have we got you for by the way? I'll I am actually reaching you at the end. It's um nearly 5 30 in the morning for me. Damn it Yeah, I'm all yeah, I'll just finish also this video and so like are we done with jim? Yes. Yes. We are done with jim like Thank god. Are we gonna shout at we seen you on the back end or uh? Yeah, you like uh, I'll I'll have I'll have a nap, you know I'll take a leaf out of aiden's book and uh and come back all the stronger No problem. We'll be here for a while Stop it. Don't bully me. Oh, oh god. Oh, no the doctor at this is Oh Having a bit of a meme We got static Yeah It's 30 right now. How can you stay up this late? I I'm so tired PM. Yeah, that's a late time to stay It's so late. Oh really I'm it's like 3 a.m. Where I am 3 30 Wait a minute. Have you had lots of martinis? Sorry more or not because you guys still have a long ways to go Yeah, we're running out. Yeah, we've got about uh, we got about 24 hours to go Yeah, six. We did six and a half in one video. Oh, yeah Golly, the gym section is that long? Jesus Christ. Well, Jim is Jim is uh, he is Thick with content.  You got me you can keep me for about four hours. Then I have to sleep Oh, I was gonna say you're welcome to You can go and recharge a sleeve or whatever you want to do Um, yeah, we can worry early. It was he's he's my bestie.  Hi I think I'll be able to come back Yeah, I think guys I'll be out of Your weebri is scaring away shad Isn't that french Yeah, yeah, this is a shame for a display I think I will be back for the home stretch so for the last maybe so The the bread bong back for the home stretch, uh, I'll be here. I'm in island in the uk, but I'll be island so They're all islands Oil islands. I heard ireland my bad. No I was in ireland. I'd be dead dude Why why would you be dead though? Oh All right guys everyone I will uh farewell. I will see you later. Um, stay strong mullin rags. You can do it I believe in you burritos every day I'll watch your little video shad burrito strong. Yes. Watch the flio.  Thank you Okay, I think I'll also Hop out here my guys, but I I'll probably be back I believe in you. I didn't I believe in you You and me need to do something together at some point Hell yeah Hell yeah Uh guys when I wake up you'll probably still be on air So I'll see you guys later. Yeah. Yes, you're on dude Okay, I'll find out the next video konichi. Oh yes to me. Oh yes to me. Oh my god. He's fucking. What's to you? Bye guys Uh Tora, Tora, Tora Hello mark letters from iwo jima The last samurai I'm back, baby. Just Sorry, he managed to get back in I got I did everything I could to keep him out guys. I'm sorry I did all of the things Mel's a cool guy. He's crying right now. Look what you did by saying he's cool. You upset him All the sweetness I think he's okay. Yes. He's all right. He's all right. That metal dude I Can't speak in japanese about it bringing in some kind of huge controversy No, there's no it's not wrong It's nothing unusual about anything that's happening here. Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, I got confused because I kind of thought we're gonna speak in japanese back to me and then I got confused Honestly, the most unusual thing is probably that I'm here. Hello everyone. Right. Yeah So you're actually the one I referenced earlier the the one who was like, hey vr is actually okay even Even for people who have difficulty moving conventionally. It's like so Um, yeah, it's been it's been a year since you had to provide that counter. How do you how do you feel exactly? Yeah Yeah, um for I guess if anyone and I was um, they're kind of lost on that I sent muller a video after jim sterling was like, yeah vr is privileged goggles And they're only for the absolutely able bodied and I'm an amputee who like I lost my leg in 2017 And I bought myself an htc vibes when I got my prosthetic specifically to be able to train myself to do things like Move in the directions and dodge bullets and stuff plan robo recall Hey While you're dodging bullets, they're committing a hate crime I don't want to be a little bit too weird But there um are a lot of people who would like to do a lot of research with you Who I am I am in and will pay you to do research with you. Oh my god. I'm doubling Contact me after the stream I will send you as the person who will want to do research with you You want to stick this leg nub in your what? Every single time in the last few years that I started dating a new girl All my friends can say is what are you doing with the stump with her? I'm just like, oh god. No, that would hurt me Been trying to study um people who have disabilities in different ways whether it be More natural or unnatural whatever it is disabilities and we are so so wanting to get people to Complete our studies. It is insane. So I will actually give you a study where you can probably make some money Uh and get free cash That sounds good to me. I'm in canada No, not at all a problem.  I make gaming videos on the gaming with geeks channel Primarily, that's kind of like the the gaming specific sub brand geeks and gamers So that's sort of how I ended up here. I suppose Hmm good to have you sad And to add nifat mean my newest video is a review of horizon zero dawn on pc So in case anyone didn't know horizon zero dawn is coming to pc. Oh, we're aware of that We've been told about a thousand times across the two years Think about horizon zero dawn. I haven't played it. I don't have a plate it. Is it any good? I don't know I have no idea that's why i'm asking you dudes The port has some issues, but ultimately it still runs a lot better than it does on a ps4 So like if you had the option to play on ps4 or on pc, I'd still say go for it on pc Oh, yeah, I'll take a padboard on pc Any day, absolutely The mouse keyboard controls are really good to the point that I didn't I was actually like able to Fix the fact that I experienced a glitch where the sort of bullet time like slowing down time to aim mode Wasn't working for me at all But the mouse aim kind of made it so it didn't really matter and I didn't need to slow things down Knock things off the dinosaurs because I wasn't aiming with a controller You know when I was way back when max pain 3 came out I I was still playing on the xbox at the time And I I didn't finish the game because of how Frustrating it it is to aim at things because that is a very that's a game that relies for those who don't know I'm basically headshots headshots headshots all the time And and that's how you want to play the game a lot of precision work is involved And I never finished it because it wasn't fun to play and when I got it on pc, man Some of the most fun I've ever had in the shooter Yeah, you guys want to help me try to convince jeremy from geeks and gamers to like learn how to aim with the keyboard And mouse because he's always talking about how titanfall 2 is his favorite game But he always wants me to play it on a ps4 and I'm like Playing titanfall 2 on a controller tell him that please Oh my god What does that thing run at 30? No, it's not 60 The same guys who made the call of duty games are now initially so they're uh, they're all about the 60 frames a second God, I'm glad Geez, it's not unplayable on ps4. I'm just not very good Like especially now I've been playing on pc almost exclusively for like the last three years straight and I'm really decent at Most keyboard aiming terrible at aiming a first person shooter with a controller though Also, hello cynic snacks, how'd you do? Hello there. I'm all right. It's been a man. It feels like it's been ages.  I don't remember finally get an italian on well over a year ago. I'd say Damn, were you all 50? Uh, yes, I was yeah, oh there you go. That'll probably be the last time. Yeah It's been a year since enix drown. It's crazy. I think oh, oh, jesus christ I Just calm down Well the next the next thing we got to cover. Oh, yeah, does everyone want to just make sure they got that uh, they're in the room We got a lot of dead accounts in the room now. I'm probably gonna restart it eventually, but but now There's so much memeage. I need to scroll up. Oh, I reposted it as the bomb. Um, oh god damn it Oh So our next video on the plate if you will uh, it's gonna be something we've been asked to go for a while And I just you know, I don't know what to expect. It's it's a ranking of every star wars movie done by Oh my goodness, you know him. You love him. Oh, it's it's by the heat Oh We are going to ring all of the star wars films canonically, but we're gonna go worst to best worst to best I know we already know what the best one is, but we'll start worst to best Do we I guess He's referencing empire, right? I hope so. We saw that the other day and it goes up really well Let's let's hope you this one. This is this is Ben Shapiro. We're talking about I would rely on him to do anything What is um, we'll do this Can can you live shit? Please stop for a second and recognize the high IQ level The adventure here I've always wanted to see a high IQ level ranking the star wars movie That's the thing He's got such a massive galaxy brain that I couldn't even predict the outcome of this Well, yeah, what what what game do you want to play with this? Should we have our own list competing with him or should we just try and guess what his list would be? I'm okay every well. Yeah, let me open up a word document Let me open up my uh, I will make a list of what I believe his are and I'll see if they match afterward In fact, I will post it just to make let me scroll.  It's not so I think this includes the nine mainline movies plus solo plus rogue one. I think that's what we're working with Okay, all right, uh from best to worst. I'm gonna think he thinks that All right, I'm just gonna make my list and then I'll uh I mean, what's everyone's pick for worst? Let's just have some fun with this. I guess, uh, the rise of skywalker Anything from the sequel trilogy Did more damage, but I think rise of skywalker is probably a worse movie. I would agree. I think I don't even know Would you agree that tfa is probably the one that does the most damage though? Moller remember we did that poll that one time right after tross came out and it was 50 50 on the dot Whether last night or trot was worse. Let's put chat against ben Shapiro. We'll make a straw poll And it'll be vote for multiple. You just got to vote for well the worst I guess but you can pick like and then it should level out to find out which ones are the top and worst, right? I find it. Yeah, we need to redo the poll. No, I'm gonna do a poll for the whole set Okay. Yeah, we do that do that do that. Yeah, it's it's really difficult to try and think about How bad they are in comparison to each other at the same time.  Is it because it's not straw poll, right? What's a what's a poll where you can like pick the order if you know what I mean like like order Well, let me ask you this All you got to do is just list the nine movies say vote for which one's the best and then that will rank them But I feel like with our audience especially what you'll get is Is zero zero zero in everything except for like surely we've got I mean, how many people do we have watching fuck 6,300 people watching so surely well, I think it'd be more interesting if they they were told to order them in quality And then they could get an average. I don't know if we can get anything to do that Yeah, that could work. Um, I guess if anyone in chat knows a good system to do that in Like straw poll like the top three or A top google polls Yeah, give that a shot while I'm making my list here because this is gonna be my list and we'll see how this ranks up to his So are we ruling out attack of the clones? Oh, well, I mean, this is the interesting part, right? Because Some people will be like no, that one's the best. No, that one is no that one is like I don't know how to That one's the worst like what which one the worst one is will probably be split across a lot of people Yeah straw poll is all I know You can make a google form I don't I don't I don't think I've ever done that before like I don't I don't know how it works I feel like it's going to be a lot more time consuming than just making a straw poll to like start adding I don't know the different Maybe would it be interesting to do a straw poll if we knock out the ot and then it's like pick the worst Yeah, that would be Most that would be the quickest way. I think well, I guess at that point it makes no difference if we keep it, right? For what about four separate polls otc equal trilogy Prequel trilogy and but then we can't compare them Is Someone in discord is making one if someone if one of the generous members of public are able to Generate what I'm talking about go for it because I really I don't know how to do it What I'm looking for is a poll Where you guys get to choose Like what like you order them and then submit and then every one of the 6,000 potential people do it and then we get to see an averaged out where everything ranks and then we'll compare that to Ben Shapiro's All this effort all this effort to see if we compare to Ben Shapiro's opinion It's important that we compare to Ben Shapiro Statistics your thing can't can't you help us with this? What? Yeah, what I'm a little bit confused. So What do you want to know about Ben Shapiro's? We're talking about star wars We're talking about Ben Shapiro or as we call them a Jew hope Wow Wow. Wow, that sounds very racist to me and I don't know if I can I don't know if I'll be able to You okay All right, I I think I think I'm picking up what you're sitting down there I can't do the meme. I'm sorry but if you want to dunk on Ben Shapiro in terms of just his Demographic inconsistencies and inaccuracies I could probably do that like he doesn't rank the star wars movies like a real Jew does What does what do you mean? What are you talking about? Okay, I was just trying to figure out This is my problem. I can't see anything with us Oh, you don't You don't like the Jewish people.  I'm just interested in his stars rank things to be honest with you. Yeah, that's right.   That was the wrong question Do you think his Jewishness at all plays a part in his ranking of these movies? Obviously, but I can't Which I think you'll find a way star wars movie speaks the most to him as a Jew. Do you think? Okay, so I found this thing called rankum I think it would be the last Jedi because that's like the Holocaust of star wars movies Rankum one two three kinder does the thing I'm looking for Yeah What happens somebody will say whatever I said was anti-semitic so And by the way, that was me But all of y'all guys people will say that was anti-semitic.  We're not no one said anything. No one said anything negative. Yeah, the user All right, we can they're fine. I'm trying to make a poll at the same time. We can do that fun little movie ranking game Together we can all vote.   So Oh Sounds pretty gay and annoying Sound gay All right, let me give these written attack of the clones I feel like I'm very closely aligned with the list that rags is put forth Yeah, I'm I'm not set in stone on this I think a couple of them move up and down depending on how I'm feeling at the time I feel if you asked me a week from now to make this list again, it might be a little different But I'm pretty I'm pretty secure on the bottom one two three four five. I'm really only Maybe three four and five are really the only ones that I That get the leeway one and two are super secure and all the bottom ones from You know after five are pretty I I don't think those will ever change Hmm Is this list based on what you feel are the objective best movies or your personal favorites a bit of both a bit of both kind of um, if I was going to be objective, um Good I think that's probably what puts rogue one above return of the Jedi But I would rather watch return of the Jedi. So Yeah, I think the return of the Jedi is really high up for me, but I completely acknowledge it as a subjective I just like that movie. Yeah, it has problem I like it too much, but it's got some real Issues objectively in terms of like what the fuck happens and things Yeah, I wouldn't disagree with that at all The movie's position within the overall story that kind of gives return the Jedi a bit of a leg up over rogue one um because This is more This is more for me objective when I had to compare the two because I originally I had them swapped around and then I changed them because Rogue one for how boring and dull it is I don't think it has Then I'm operating a lot from memory. So I may be wrong Which is why these ones I've you know, I will go back and forth on but I feel like rogue one has less objective issues And more than it's just a dull unfun Movie with characters. I don't care about like I would not want to rewatch all of rogue one at all But I would definitely watch return of the Jedi Even though I think that technically rogue one is more solid objectively um But it's I'd have to rewatch it again because I my memory banks on that one are very weak these days It's also you kind of have to Factor in the time in which the movies were made and how they compare to other movies at that time Do do this, okay But do it like this provided by Kara. So thank you for that. Um, just do it relatively quickly And then while everybody's filling that in in the audience We will do the game one on screen and people probably find that pretty engaging until they all get to vote So one moment. I will spam it in the chat for you In the audience, we will do my promise. I haven't seen the original ones and like a million years. So I don't even know Just hit that and you get to vote Just try it's a little awkward You have to try and figure out your own sort of thing and then put it into the thing But you know and then we'll be able to get some results And uh, if any mods are around, please repeat that uh that link every once in a while if you can Uh, just realized as well you can put all of them as the worst Yeah Obviously, if yeah, if you play it Like you know, reasonably then we'll get some interesting results if you play it goofily that yeah, it's not gonna help Yeah, please please be honest with this We're legitimately curious how they stack up and it would be a good interesting thing to kind of use for the future So please do answer these earnestly Actually, and if you give me the data raw data, I can do any kind of analysis you want Also All right, here we go So if you guys if you want to be able to see what's happening on screen I can just describe it to you But if you pull up my the streamer you'll you'll be able to see it We're playing a little ranking game. We might do this for the mcu later as well, but oh that one So solo or the rise of skywalker, which is better Uh, I haven't seen solo So I think solo is better. I think solo is better. Yep. I think we all agree solo wins that one So easy last Jedi or rogue one rogue one Rogue one is way better than the last Jedi Revenge of the Sith or the force awakens revenge of the sith Yeah easily Phantom menace or attack of the clones Attack of the clones for me attack of the clones just edges it out. Oh no. I'm more phantom menace. I'm really yeah I think attack of the clones edges it out Which so we've got four votes for attack of the clones which means it wins, right? I will say those are super close. Yeah, I do think attack of the clones wins Yeah, don't don't take this too personally I'm just going to try and do it quicky so so so the average out if it's four to two at the very most then Attack the clones wins return of the Jedi versus empire strikes back empire empire wins Rise of skywalker is the new hope a new Those even those names when I hear them are kind of ironic it starts off with a new hope and now we're just hopeless and upset A new hope versus solo is a new hope a new hope Last Jedi versus force awakens I've submitted my So the reason why I think I will probably pick force awakens and superiors because it didn't fucking annihilate luke skywalker Yes, yeah, I would agree with that. I did kind of destroy the world Um, it kind of destroyed Han Solo, but I mean this this one I really don't even know what's the objective choice between the three of them in the sequels because they're also fucking bad, but Yeah, for me, I would probably I would prefer to rewatch force awakens than the last Jedi last Jedi is miserable Yes, I would much rather watch tfa It looks like most people all right, uh rogue one versus force awakens Rogue one Just for the vacancy revenge of the sith versus rogue one Is this objective or subjective? Um, it's really just your vote. You can treat how you want rogue one versus revenge of the sith I I think rogue one's more objectively solid. I'd much rather watch revenge of the sith again I think I could make an objective argument for revenge of the sith over rogue one rogue one has like there's no characters The best character in it is k2so and he's adroit You say that as long as the characters aren't contradictory, uh, then there's not an objective problem with it I agree the character is a shit I would so much rather watch revenge of the sith. I would gladly watch revenge of the sith I would abstain on this one because I don't remember rogue one well enough Everyone there likes k2so.  Um, put me down for fuck, uh, put me down for I just to be consistent with the rest put it in with put rogue one for me. All right and mel I'll say rogue one. Oh shit mark Mainly because I remember I'm holding strong on revenge of the sith for this one Wait, so it's was this between rogue one and revenge of the sith. Yeah Uh, I'd probably rather watch rogue one and we already know why he didn't say it so rogue one wins Phantom man is return of the jedi and return of the jedi And again just to just to reiterate for chat I would I would I think rogue one's better objectively I would never want to watch it again. I would I would much rather watch revenge of the sith I think it's way more fun to watch Anonymous 100% dude. Like I I don't want to rewatch. Oh, he's a tough one attack of the clones or return of the jedi Oh Wait, I thought you were being serious for a second. I was like, what? Uh, I mean it's not gonna process that I was like, wait, why is that hard? This is an actual actual hard one last jedi. All right, this guy.  Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. It's I hate them both in completely different ways and it's hard to pair like compare them I I guess I would put tlj on top But just because I don't even know how he could compare these two different files of shit Um, I'm not even sure honestly. Yeah, I know right well the first time we asked the poll it was 50 50 exactly Like I don't even know Tlj because there was a few things that when I first saw it if I didn't think about them They were fun like the throne room fights when you saw it down it starts falling apart. I can't think Awkward that I liked what about the watery fight where they fight with water isn't that cool? How cool is that? I I think my reaction my disappointed reaction was more audible when watching the rise of skywalker So if I'm gonna use that as a metric, that's I think I was laughing at that point Person in a straight jacket surely that's partly to do with um The fact that you saw tl like because it broke everything The last year I ruined the world of star wars Well, here's the thing I felt it's it was so hard I didn't feel investment in the rise of skywalker, but I was still invested during tlj So it's almost like there was two different people watching those movies when they came out Which makes it hard to compare Then I could also put down the last jedi is the point where I stopped becoming a quote unquote star wars fan Yeah, I think a lot of people could say that as well. And so I went into the rise of skywalker not really giving a shit and just wanting it to be over But that's because of what tlj did. So I think that maybe that's the the worst I was I was harping while rome was burning when the rise of skywalker was playing in the theater It's I keep trying to think of like how to answer this question. It's like, which one would you prefer to watch?   Is that how is everyone else looking? Yeah, same. I'm gonna go with tross is worse. Uh, oh it hurts Wait, tross is worse Sorry, uh, what's everyone picking for the superior? Superior, uh, I think I know I feel uh Do we have to choose? Can we just not On the survey you can't select who for worst heads is tlj. Yeah is a skywalker. Oh, yeah Wait, who's sleeping right? Skywalker Today is wait today. It's rise of sky. Okay. Today. It's tross fine. Uh Uh tfa versus tross, I'm guessing we'll go with tfa Yeah, wake up wake up every day and flip a coin and I guess you know which one you hate more that day Yeah, I'm gonna say the force awakens. Don't ask me to justify it. Just roll with it. Let's move along force awakens versus solo So it was better. I'll go with solo. Yeah I'm seeing solo versus revenge of the sith Revenge of the sith Revenge of the sith for sure I would go with revenge of the sith for memory, but I kind of wouldn't even see as far as revenge of the sith for a solo Yeah Revenge of the sith Revenge of the sith for a new hope a new hope a new home better A new hope a rogue one a new hope a new hope. Yeah Last year i'll phantom menace phantom Yep I Wait, I thought even was like saying no to that you're saying no to that Nor nor what's the matchup? Oh the next one is phantom menace and rise of skywalker. Oh phantom menace is Phantom menace wins uh force awakens phantom menace phantom menace Phantom menace solo Phantom menace Um, so I've rather watched the phantom menace, but I think solo is the better movie I almost oh, yeah, I was always considering the reverse of that I feel like I'd rather watch solo because I find parts of phantom menace boring the Tatooine mainly while I could go with solo I'm phantom menace Um, if I'm oof I'm very this is this is a kind of territory thing. This is a tough one that I didn't think to to really match up So I think in a way the phantom menace also destroyed the world of star wars by turning what was mystical into just science Well, um midichlorians that's a whole thing everyone's still debating on midichlorians to this day like what exactly he meant in the uh Yeah in the film. I wish that scene was just deleted because then yeah It's just never mentioned again or referred to at any point by anyone It's just this weird anomaly and instead quaggon just sensed something about anakin instead of it being that he read his blood Yeah well, okay, but um To is could it also not be said that midichlorians are a result of the force in you and that they're like They're not the first step It's still in debate like to this day whether or not it makes sense or not Um, I think it's all made because that phantom menace seems like a movie That was made by a person who had a plan to make a movie whereas solo's kind of like a frankenstein monster of a few movies that Hey, you like this don't you? But but a frankenstein movie can still be better than someone with a bad plan I guess that's true But I would agree. I would agree. Um, I just can't use that as the quality determinant And I don't I think I think solo's better Yeah, I'd say solo's better and I would rather watch solo I would certainly rather watch it right now because I haven't seen solo since I feel like I watched it in cinema Like I feel like that's how long ago it was so That was what 2018 so yeah, I would way prefer to watch it because I watched phantom menace relatively recently Um, but I don't know how much that mattered.  I'm voting for solo and that can change tomorrow. Okay Another coin toss what uh, wait rags went solo. I went solo. Well, how the rest are you looking phantom menace phantom menace These are movies about space children intended for wizards Yeah, does phantom menace wins?  I think they do it solo actually Oh, shit, we've locked on three three gonna have to flip a coin I'll just change my mind. No, you are not allowed to change your mind pizza So heads is heads is solo tails is phantom menace. You trust me Tails, it's always tails with you Wait, sorry, which one was tails? Tails is phantom menace Revenge of the safe or phantom menace Revenge of the safe Revenge of the clones, I feel like the answer that's Revenge revenge revenge of the sith versus return of the jedi Return return of the jedi I would say return of the jedi even though it's pretty to me a lot of his spots. It's really good return of the jedi or rogue one That's the toughest one to me Yeah, so this structurally return of the jedi probably makes less sense um But payoff wise, you know, yeah Damn, this is a tough one Yeah, I'll be going for a turn of the jedi I um I ranked rogue one higher because I was trying to be objective, uh, but again, I would I would much rather watch return of the jedi again, so I kept my list consistent based on those parameters But you know, if this was a which one would you rather rewatch list then it would definitely be higher However, I think objectively rogue one is better But that's mostly because it doesn't have the same amount of big problems So return of the jedi was what we're going for That was my I I picked um, wait, is this between what again rogue one and one on return of the jedi I picked a turn of the I or sorry. I picked rogue one jedi jedi Mainly for everything to do with luke invader that kind of Thing that's yeah I was just going word. Yeah, uh Snacks and aiden where were you going? um Return of the jedi for me Yeah, based on what I'd rather watch return of the jedi which yeah, by the way This is clearly a really good poll because we go from what we think is actually constructively the best versus what we prefer the most This is what we'd like to watch right now. That's the three things and keep going Yeah, I definitely Because when you can't really determine Between the two you just have that that's the only thing I can go go to to get a quick In fact, I think I might swap those two um Yeah, I think I'm going to swap those two. I'm going to go with return of the jedi It's just kind of as a rule. I would just prefer the the original trilogy over any other star wars stuff So just always ends up being that way a new hope this is a lot of return of the jedi New hope New hope is so good empire versus a new hope Uh empire. Yeah empire for me empire empire All right, we have our results Um, and we can compare them with the efab fandom results based on 1150 answers apparently we're dealing with We both have the same number one both of the same number two both of the same number three We we have rogue one. They have revenge of the sith Then we have revenge of the sith and they have phantom menace Then eyes Uh, we have attack of the clones Then they have attack of the clones as well Interesting. Then they have rogue one. Then we have solo They have force awakens. We have force awakens. They have solo Sorry. Yeah, those those are just uh Flipped um, but funnily enough both lists and with the rise of skywalker in the last jedi Um, yeah, it looks like solo ranked below force awakens for the efaptum Force awakens is really bad guys Yeah I don't know if they've been paying keeping up with like your videos and yeah discussions We've been having about it. I got like 12 hours of riffing it apart so far. Do we need halfway? Yeah, the forced awakens is like what I would Probably call a fundamentally broken movie not that solo is some kind of day. Yeah solo. It's not great Like you'll need to understand some of these decisions are based off of how shitty the other option is Yeah Um, all right, so what we'll do is I'll have Those two yeah, how does that how does that line up with um the deaths of characters? And do you reckon that has a massive impact on people's opinions of the movies? Just so you guys know that's that's our list. I just posted in there and then uh, efapt's list. Let me get that one as well Character death I assume factors in but I think we were all trying to be like What is the actual best movie of these two or at least that's what I was trying to if I just mean about your unconscious feelings towards the film It must have a bit of an impact on oh, certainly and I think that's why I kind of um All right, I guess it wasn't a character death But why is eventually conceded to rise to Skywalker being better than last Jedi? I was like well at least I don't have to be luke almost murder his nephew. Yeah I feel like the list we got a pretty pretty good the the hours and efapt's, you know You could I think that there's room to breathe.  Now. I know a lot of people think attack of the clones goes here You're gonna be shocked where I put attack at the clones a lot of people say last week. Hang on Is he starting from the bottom? Yeah, that's his worst. He thinks phantom menace is the worst He thinks that the phantom menace is okay. I didn't think we'd get blown away immediately, but Yeah, wow Like I it's not so shockingly horrible that I don't like it's still a really bad pick I feel if I was forced into debating that point. I could I don't think I could I was about to say what we got we got phantom menace is number five and number seven on the other lists So average it out to a six out of 11 and he's put it at number 11 That's uh dolly Has he not seen the rise of skywalker?  Well, I know he hates I know he hates the last jedi because he made a video about how much he hated it so I'm assuming Like it won't be that he hates all the prequels and then the sequels it'll like i'm assuming last jedi's got a finia somewhere But hey, we got rationalizations. It's a 16 minute video. So he's got to say something Jedi I hear you.    We don't know I think there is some uh, I don't think it's entirely that I think that bad kid characters make people dislike them, right? So bad kid character characters are not good. However, um It does kind of put a film at an inherent disadvantage when you start out with only kid characters, right? so Kid characters are kind of inherently Dislikeable, but it didn't it didn't start us off with kid characters I don't know. I don't agree with that. Kid characters are inherently dislikeable. What? Okay, does an anakin only show up like an hour and yeah, I like newt.  A lot of a lot of kid characters are very dislikeable Uh, I sure the kids Not never case, but a lot of kid characters are dislikeable because um, they tend to Kevin McAllister Yeah, I like Kevin Rich Evans the fact is Rich Evans That makes them annoying isn't that they're kids though It's gonna be something else because there's loads that we like that are kids. It's like Basically, it's the idea that uh, it's when people have Uh, low agency, but then Obtain high agency via their Whatever perspective they're laid in right, which oftentimes is displayed by kid characters if that makes sense So it basically what I'm saying is that you have characters that are said they're not supposed to be able to do things But then they can and then whoa we it's really um, that that's That can be frustrating By characters that are kids. Uh, it can be fun, but it can also be annoying, right? That's all I have to say What about characters that are um, completely impossibly perfect? We're that's obviously irritated and everyone hates that But that's my point with the kid characters, right? Is that many people dislike good characters because kid characters Have a problem with being flawed in that it's difficult for somebody to write kid characters that are flawed because they don't want to write A child as being a flawed character. So you always end up with this I'm not always but very frequently end up with this character that is kind of perfect and They're just in a shitty situation It's difficult to move out of it, right? So, um There are some stories that do it well and many other stories that do it poorly And it's basically based on the author Hmm I mean, I would Bender there's some good good kid protagonists there that are well loved. I mean not by moeller, but Wow Well, I mean that would only bolster my point. Anyway, the the like, yeah The common fact is going to be something other than they are kids It's going to be something else like uh, if if you dislike or like them because I would say it's pretty neutral Like it's a child character. Will you like them? It's like, I don't know Depends, right exactly.  I'd be like, uh Sure.  We go to with jaja Yeah, what about weird CGI aliens? Right Sorry, go ahead. I didn't say that like just because an adult is annoying doesn't preclude the fact that a Not that that a non-adult cannot be annoying I just think that a big problem of the phantom menace more than any other Any other specific movie in the star war series is that there are both adults and non-adults that are really really irritating in that film and that carries on throughout the series But it doesn't feel like a strong enough point to be able to say that the phantom menace is the worst because children No, I don't agree. It's obviously the point that sets that movie apart from all of the other movies But I don't think it's necessarily weighty enough to say that that makes it the worst No, I wouldn't agree with that either, but i'm just saying that it It's a hard movie to get over if you just don't like child actors Which has nothing to do with disliking children or disliking kids or hating kids or whatever But let's be real kid actors Are very rarely good When they're good, it's impressive rather than yeah, what you'd expect But at the same time the point I was gonna make is I don't think I've ever heard anyone say Mangoonies would have been a good movie if it wasn't kids in it If you make a good movie that stars kids It has to be so specifically based around that premise, which I don't think that the phantom menace would be based around I see what you're saying It's like a child oriented story and an idea like a coming of age type beat Yeah, whereas this just happens to be like a kind of a grown-up story that has an annoying kid in it Right, which I think makes it annoying to adults when they watch it. Yeah, unfortunately I think it's probably a decent film if you cut all that stuff out of it But unfortunately you you can't remove The annoying child parts from it. That's the thing when I remember when I first watched the phantom menace in the cinema I really enjoyed it. I liked Anakin. I didn't have any problems with it.  I've realized how bad it is now that I am a pizza Yeah So, I mean, I'm 30 so like I'm probably considerably older than you 29 pulling the age card I'm just I I don't know because when I saw the when I saw the phantom menace I think I was 12 or something like that theaters. I'm trying to remember But I was enough to know better I was in high school when I saw phantom menace 14 15, I think maybe what was your first what was your first take on it I actually pretty much me and everyone that I want to go see it with really loved phantom menace the first time We saw but I think that a lot of that might have been like we had never seen special effects like that Yeah, really? Yeah, people didn't really turn around on phantom menace until like maybe a year later And then the same thing happened with the tag of the clones seemed like everyone People were like no, it's even worse than phantom menace I distinctly remember leaving the cinema with my dad and he was a big star wars fan And he was the one who got me into it much like most people And I remember walking out the cinema being like wow, that was awesome and my dad was like that was shit That was my experience as well where I thought it was cool My dad was a huge truckie and he hated it He first of all didn't want to see the movie in the first place and he's like I hate this I hate star wars and I want to see this. I like star trek. I hate starboard Okay Oh my god, I tried to say something in the book and I fucked it up, but No one would have noticed in this No, I I'm very I'm sorry is what My dad was a big truckie and took me to see the film when I was like, I guess 12 13 I I didn't like it and he didn't like it and we both kind of just went Are we supposed to like this movie? Um, it was a very weird experience for me. I guess and that we In that I had never seen any star wars movies and my dad rented all the star wars movies for us to watch in a row And I didn't really get into any of them. So you you didn't buy a jar jar binks action figure after you saw the movie No, I didn't I I was a truckie. I was always a truckie. I was always better than that. I'm afraid No, I was always a truckie. I was always a truckie and I I didn't understand star wars star wars I I still don't quite understand it. It's never been my Particularly, um Hello, all right And that is the end of what I think I was I thought my internet died again was like When I see it I like good star wars movies, but I don't like but the bad ones just fly right over my head I guess is the point well, um I guess we go back to Ben Shapiro and hillhouse I was supposed to mention hillhouse kids as well. They're amazing and they're super young. Oh, yeah Um, so yeah, you know him him bring up, uh kids is like what but anyway, let's let's let's hear more about why the vat Abed is a baptism Pixar does exclusively about small children kids don't actually want to watch kids kids kind of want to be adults making Jedi Anakin Six years old is really weird and then making Jedi Anakin significantly younger than Padme is super duper weird and Becomes even weirder So he's um This is this weird fucking set of comments about this, right?  Yeah, it's not a big deal. That's completely normal.  There's nothing weird in the first couple films. Um, well, I don't know The later films it doesn't They were in the same room once you ever do they hug No, I don't even think they're any way near each other Yeah, so I don't know I don't think that I think the if there could have been a sexual relationship when she was 15 and he was five or whatever because that I believe is The the generational difference that would have been really weird and creepy, but it's mostly really 15 and really Okay, when those same people are like 24 and 19 Like why are we even discussing this? It's so irrelevant from anything. Why is he brought this up as a critique? Because a lot of people do they love people like Oh, you know, I don't like that's because the creepy age difference between the two people who are not actually doing anything Romantic whatsoever. I feel like oh, well moller. Remember in that case What about the creepy age difference between Qui-Gon, Jin and Anakin like they spend far more time together But they're not romantically There is You want to hear the creepy age difference between me and my father? Like uh weird And that's why I hate my life Excuse me if I'm wrong, but I do find that the relationship is a little bit But this isn't a phantom minute thing. This is a clone wars thing. Yeah, exactly By that point it's it's more understandable Because they don't have like a relationship in the phantom minutes. They like talk very briefly That's one of our problems with the clone wars is that they almost like This weird fascination it turns out that he's had with this one person is weird How is it built up? How long is the age difference between Anakin and Padme in Five years. It's always going to be five years. They age at the same rate five years No, I didn't I didn't know but um I think that it's a little bit dependent on how old the person is a little bit, but it's not It's a little odd. Let's just be real. It's a little odd Just a little they they are two people that exist in the same universe and they happen to have different ages I think that a five-year difference between people that are 10 and 15 is That's the clone wars instead of yeah, but they're not romantically involved so it doesn't I agree, but I'm saying that like When they become of age, it's not that weird but In the pre-age You know 10 to 15 Area, it's a little bit creepy. That's just my opinion. You could disagree obviously But what's creepy Someone being 10 and someone being 15 10 and 15 sure, but they're not romantically involved when they're 10 and 15 There's some implication for it, but like where is the like where the most the most that allows that you can say Anakin might have had a crush on it, but Again, that's Young boys have crushes on older chicks because they're just innocent Like that and they just have crushes on girls I get so I guess I get I'm not trying to like do anything kind of crazy here But I he clearly has a crush on her from the first film. I don't think clearly.  That's a cute baby I like animals and be like, yeah, that's a cute guinea pig I agree But I do think that that it was set up very early for there to be a sexual relationship between those characters because and I'm not saying Don't take me in the wrong way The story was set up to make a sexual relationship between these characters And that's why it doesn't work is because it was set up Prima feishi to to be like these characters have a sexual relationship rather than working towards Building a sexual relationship between different characters. I agree. It's definitely not like built up But I think if I was going to go with it So because people are referencing the whole the first thing he says to her he asks Are you an angel and then he explains why? But I would hardly say that that means that he has a definitive Isn't it because he's heard stories of pilots? Yeah, see angels or whatever Even if even if he has is romantically interested in her that doesn't matter either because it because he's nine Whereas she It would be like, yeah, that's fucked up, but she's Young young boys can absolutely think they have because a nine-year-old doesn't know what love and attraction they like they don't grasp those concepts But don't they're only kind of weird and creepy when no, I don't think it's weird and creepy And I don't think that it's weird and creepy enough to use that as a criticism against the movie either Because it's just such an irrelevant point No, I'm talking about Ben Shapiro Oh I don't find it as a criticism against the film, but I do think that it is okay. All right Um, are bullies attracted to women from a young age? Obviously. Yes, obviously Obviously And let's go ahead No, I mean, that's fine and we should all be accepting of that and not be weird about it Um, however, I I do find it a little bit Uncomfortable when we display Attraction between prepubescent boys and prepubescent girls to me Well, let me let me say this About that is I was gonna say All of that everything that we see that could I think even be Generously construed as romantic is from Anakin to her. Yep. I don't think had made us anything The other way and if that was the case, I would be on board that it's super creepy Yeah, because that's predatory in a way.  I think people are just Making an issue out of nothing Yeah In this movie I would be totally on board that that is not okay Yeah, but coming from a nine-year-old boy I don't think that it is to be taken in any Super deep sort of way other than just the kind of crushes that young boys have No, I would agree. I would agree that that his affections are are pretty pure and innocent But it does give off a kind of Let's be real weird Totalistic perspective in that it is weird to see a 12 or a nine-year-old and a 13-year-old hookup No one wants to see that Do that I know that's my point So why are we talking about it because my point is that no one of the things don't happen Loads of things don't happen in this movie. We can't like I don't understand Yeah, I I'm I'm very hesitant to jump to the To the creepy aspect. Um, I I yeah, I just don't think it's there. I think the fault lies with attack of the clones I I don't know. Um, my my only fear my only problem with the films in terms of the pedophilic aspect of it is that All right, I've clearly gone there, but if you want to go the pet of the potential pedophilic aspect Of the character relationships Let's be real. It could put a word born on the exact same day and that is gross and weird I wouldn't disagree that it's not possible I didn't say I didn't say at all that they weren't born the exact same day and that makes it wrong I'm just saying that people who might be into this stuff might be kind of weird. That's all Maybe but that's not a fault of the film Yeah No, I wouldn't blame it as a fault of the film, but I wouldn't okay Let me compare it to To file it's a fault of the film cuties that that pedophiles might watch that film and get excited by it I I don't know I I am Concerned about I think part of that is like because I think this is just what I've heard from Random comments, but apparently the film is supposed to be how about how that stuff is bad, but Netflix I'm Really Marketed it and described it in a really horrible way and so people got like they're they're picking up the wrong thing I don't know, but that's what I don't think that's a That's not like a fair equivalence either because the Phantom Menace wasn't marketed as having a sexy young boy in it No, I I don't think it's about Slave boy It's not about having a sexy young boy, but is it not about having kind of a sexy young girl? No, no one's sexy. Nobody in Phantom Menace is sexy.  I could 100% be wrong, but I do not I think you're looking a little deep into it I think Ben Shapiro is looking a little deep into it. What I'll say in defense is this is a position a lot of people have I've heard it from a cut and like it does annoy me a little bit because Phantom Menace has its problems We're just like, oh come on. Leave the film alone. It didn't do any of that Yeah, because This is my initial gut reaction to this too because that had never even crossed my mind at any point Like this whole argument had never even entered my brain because it's just so completely Not irrelevant.  Do it doesn't necessarily bother me? No But I could see how people have a problem with it. That's all I'm saying I could see where the problem exists doesn't bother me not personally But I could see where the problem exists, right I I understand what you're saying. I get Why people could see it that way and could pick up the vibes? I don't agree with them like I can agree that I can Understand why people would think that but I've been called a pedophile for thinking that that that this film is not A problem, right? I don't think it is either. Yeah, I think people who would go that far are crazy people who I've been called a pedophile for that So I'm just saying that that it's a thing that has happened and into deny it Whatever it just then happens people I think those people are crazy. That's the thing. We don't see the world as it is.  It doesn't make any sense.   Um Yeah, you're gonna have they're gonna have to do way better than that. I've that's yeah We don't listen to those kinds of crazy folks But holy shit, man, it sounds like I've come to this an interesting time Uh, we I was gonna say we're gonna have to You've probably just got demonetized there more. Oh, I've several times already, dude I was gonna say we have to do some rotating. Um, we got we got more people flowing in and I'm afraid the the next two on the chopping block would probably be Aiden and mel mel once again I'm in one minute into the video. Well I can't do anything. There's too many people who want to come out all those selfish bastards Um, yeah, yeah, we just have to keep the the wheel of turning. Thank you very much for coming. Okay. Bye Oh Talk about unceremonious, man.  Hey, what's going on? Oh, well apparently the Phantom Manus is the worst Star Wars movie.  Hello Cassie's also here Hello world-class bullshitters. Yeah, mr. Jeff. I assume you're getting oh, he's he's fixing his stuff Okay. Um, well, yeah, so welcome to drinker and Jeff Gentlemen to catch you up. We're checking out Ben Shapiro ranking the star wars movies And he's chosen as the worst out of the nine mainline movies plus rogue one plus solo The phantom manus is the worst and one of his reasons is the creepy relationship between Anakin and Padme, which I think is unfair Okay, that's there you go Right We've got a lot to work with here Uh, oh, yeah, so let me repost the um the link actually I was just gonna say that how do you reframe the argument as it might have been better if they Had another movie to develop their relationship Like as two adults instead of having one where Anakin's a kid that might have been a better bet Then kid It kind of bothers me like between movies Anakin like ages about 10 years whereas Padme stays exactly the same But yeah, yeah, that's always bug to me. Yes Yeah I think that the mistake was if we're gonna redo stuff. I think the big mistake was having him be so Also watchable in um in the phantom menace. I don't think he should have been nine Like I I think it would have worked way better if he was older. Yeah, I agree But we have talked about that in our phantom menace videos There is uh, there is a there is a Shapiro that needs commenting upon So Jeff are you able to to discuss things? I see like yes, but yes, I am. Thanks for writing me by the way How would you do? Uh I guess I'm doing well. I live in california. So there's all kinds of crazy stuff going on We have a bunch of wildfires and then all the coven stuff. So Well You light on fire I just realized in my in my avatar rotation I've heard there's a lot of fires in that area, but they're not always natural if you catch my drift No, I don't know what you mean. No, no But not always natural. Oh like Yeah, oh no, sorry. I've meant peaceful protests Mostly I always get those things mixed up. Oh, I thought you man. There was a bunch of flamers in california. Oh Yeah, could be racist Yeah in my avatar rotation. I'm on like one of the top tier ones That's amazing Who drew that one? I don't actually know I've collected so many like I I didn't keep track of it My bad, but I love them all the same. Um, that looks like me after playing a break fluid. I know that's like why would you Guys, um, that reminds me of picto chat on the uh, oh the nintendo ds's Oh, that's all back. Good picto chat. Love it. That was some good shit Um So, yeah, I was gonna say, uh, all right We'll hang with this seven for a little bit and then when um when the next person's coming I think mel will have to abandon once again just to fill you see i'm abusing him using him to fill Wherever wherever I can because he's my bezzie. I mean, uh, uh, he's my toady Ego, that's the one I was looking for anyway You know what? Let's we'll roll we'll roll ben back all the way to before even gave the thing so that The i'll put it's like I want okay the worst to hear.   It's a terrible film a truly terrible film filled with plot holes and stupidity Phantom menace, however is worse the reason that phantom menace is worse is because George lucas makes a critical error He thinks that the reason that kids like star wars is because they want to see kids This is one of the big errors that a lot of people who make kids films Do and pixar doesn't make this error by the way pixar does not make films exclusively about small children Kids don't actually want to I kind of like how he had to search his head for a moment from where you Pixar do not make it exclusive about small children. It's like oh much like the phantom menace isn't exclusively about Yeah, because there's only one child character in there really and he's not introduced It's almost like you want to juxtapose the innocence of childhood versus like the horrifying monster that Darth Vader's eventually going to become So you can understand where he actually came from Of course, I think that was what they're going for that like how does a child turn into such a monster?  He's like what do you mean? Yeah, I think he's overblowing Uh, the the presence of anakin in this movie whether that was a wise decision or not in terms of the storytelling aspect Is a discussion for another time, but he's not really in it all that much Even when he does enter the film He's sort of a secondary character at most the pod racing is sort of his big thing Like even the the space battle at the end that he's primarily involved in If that whole sequence is cutting between like three other battles Yeah Kind of sounds like he's going like what is the one thing They really didn't like and annoyed him so much. It's like just the worst film of all of them Yeah, I was gonna say if you get into the weeds like we got a lot to talk about phantom men It's but I mean you might might say something else, but that's what it sounds like right now Well, yeah, let's let's give it a let's give it a scene watch kids kids kind of want to be adults Making jedi anakin Six years old is really weird and then making jedi anakin significantly younger than padme is Super duper weird and becomes even weirder in the future movies Everything with young anakin is almost unwatchable. It's almost like he's exaggerating to prove a point. Yeah I would say that he's taken Like three weeks old Hey, I had a crush on padme when he was crowning inside outside of schmee Kind of weird While he was like floating around in the womb he was thinking about where he was gonna go eventually when he got here I want to get at least some of that bad man I'm a single parent. I'm glad she didn't abort anakin. Yeah, I think the system Hasn't necessarily failed her, but I feel like she could have done a little bit more Uh, you know, where is the father? I think really high up on my list because I'm happy about the fact that anakin and padme seem to have gotten married before they had sex That's the way you do it Well, I think shampere makes a good point though about kids don't want to watch other kids. They want to be treated like adults I think some of the most successful All the successful kids properties talk up like even if you want to bring up something like the goonies Which is clearly a kids movie the kids aren't framed as you know Oh, we're like the kids from it are framed a little older than they actually are They're dealing with adult situations Kids can project themselves onto adult characters perfectly easily. I mean you look at the original star wars trilogy They they saw themselves as luke skywalker. It didn't matter that he was 10 15 years older than they were They could picture themselves as him doing the things he did. That's what imaginations are.  I know it's weird like When I think back to seeing the fan of menace for the first time when I was when I was very young I didn't imagine myself as Anakin because that's fucking lame I was I was obi-wan and kwaigon and I was some of the guards shooting the droids and stuff like that and I wasn't That shit I was 10 years old when that movie came out and I couldn't stand him I like the obi-wan And I didn't really love the movie when it came out everyone that says you know that movie's made for kids I was one of those kids that I actually got out of star wars because of how much I disliked episode one when it came out Well Everyone joined you eventually Well, I was just more worried that people would see episode seven for what it actually is compared to one one in the hind In hindsight, it's not that offensive compared to what we got later on.  It's not it was like, don't you know, he's 40 years older than you? It's like, um I don't really care. I'll take a whip at a hat Liam neeson is fine Yoon McGregor is fine. They are criminally underused in this film And the the film just is Exorbitantly long. It's really long. I remember seeing it in the theater being really excited for it and walking around Or potentially long, how are they underused like they're in practically every scene in the movie One is in the entire movie. Obi-Wan takes a pretty big break in the middle. Okay, so, um, let me pull it So a phantom menace is Like, uh, there's a list right here. Let me pull it out So a phantom menace is definitely not the longest. It's actually in the middle The films that are longer than the phantom menace are the force awakens by two minutes Revenge of the sith by four minutes Attack of the clones by six minutes the last jedi By 16 minutes and the rise of skywalker by 19 minutes So the rise of this. Oh, it says So, oh, so this means rise of skywalker the longest is longer than the shortest one a new hope by 34 minutes It's too much star worth and yet It's 34 minutes of the sith like guys aboard those star destroyers trying to figure out how to go up It's funny though because I do hope feels larger to be in retrospect. It's just like That's what happens when you've got efficient screenwriting and you can cram a lot into a short space of time But not make it feel rushed So so overall this this one is like pretty basic length for a star wars movie. I would say it's right in the middle Pretty much. Oh, that sounds like it just felt like it was too long. What happened to Acts don't feel about It's in the middle of Here's thing it. Yeah, it's the middle of the list pretty securely I know when we watched a ballerina. I watched empire the other day, which is only three minutes longer than a new hope um And it felt I mean it was packed The full stuff didn't feel long at all Hard to believe rises so long I will mention as well. Maybe maybe he's referring to like Like actually pacing or how it felt getting through each of the events if he's referring to specific length You'd think he would actually pull up like Is it a longest? I don't know Yeah, he said long. He didn't say it was poorly paced or that it had, you know, loosely Useless scenes in it. He did he said it was longest so runtime facts don't care what you feel about the pacing Oh It was it was not an auspicious beginning to the prequels. Okay number 10 Last Jedi obviously last Jedi is just flamingly bad a flamingly bad film They could have never heard that one before Flamingly bad. Also, the way he's saying it makes it sound like it should be 11 not 10 But as if he's like we all know this it's the worst thing ever. It's like, oh Like tpm is worse than the last Jedi because of the kid actor and he thinks that it's really long too long Because the last Jedi is 152 minutes Compared to Phantom Menace 136. I I would rank Phantom Menace above all three of the sequel movies.  I guess drinker came in after that But we did do a ranking if you scroll up in the chat a bit. Yo, I was gonna say we We rank all the prequels over all the sequels, right? Let's see the list. Oh, well, go let's catch up one. Uh, so Right at number one, there are two lists one is from a selection of us and a lot of them were made on coin flips, so You know On your secondary list, I almost agree. I would replace I put new hope at number one and then I think row one or so it was better than the force awake It's other than that. I think I agree at this list The second one. I think is the community poll Okay, the community poll that's That's one I like um Just I don't think I tried watching rogue one the other day. I still think episode three has a lot more to add to Star Wars and it's just a more interesting film than rogue one. That is correct. I think rogue one Yeah, I'd probably rank revenge of the sith above rogue one Pretty sure I abstained on that one because I have to I need to rewatch rogue one. Um, I haven't seen in ages Rogue one's not bad. It's it's not offensive. It's just watching it. I was just like, nah Okay, I saw a film like it didn't really make a much of an impression either way I care about the characters and revenge of the sith. I like in rogue one They make a big deal about everyone dying and like the one that hurt the most was the droid carrot was How much of that though is based on you spending six years Watching anakin become whatever he becomes at the end of the movie Like a one-off movie Yeah, I don't know like hard to say like I guess I ultimately though I just didn't really care a whole lot about the people in rogue one dying It's like, okay, this guy's gonna die than this guy. All right. Now this one's going. Okay I guess the two main character is going to die too. Yeah, they're gone I didn't care about them as much. I when I went into rogue one. I was just concerned that it wouldn't be more Over overlooking some of the uh flaws of the episode seven that could come out a year before because everyone was riding that high and I think they kind of Make that mistake with rogue one. So that's where I am Yeah, I wouldn't argue with that Been a moment where the film could have gotten good, right? There's a moment where ray and kylo Look like they're gonna team up and then it's gonna radically change The history of star wars that suddenly the dark side and the light side are fighting on the same side And all of a sudden the unit. I don't feel like the film would be good Had they decided to team up Feel like it's still a disaster It wouldn't undo all the other horrifying things that had happened up until that point On the on the first viewing I I really liked where I thought it was gonna go At that moment and it didn't and it was just another like it was just bullshit How dare you But seeing seeing a jedi and a sith fight side by side although, you know Terrible choreography aside that was a quite a cool moment The first time I watched it the first time I watched it.  I've not seen that before and it doesn't completely ruin everything about The the world that this is setting I think the fact that it immediately follows the death of like the big antagonist of the the series as he'd been presented up until that point Just killed it for me Like I was like, I don't care what happens beyond this because it is just nonsense now I mean it was it was going down that path anyways, right? Was there not a little bit of excitement there for you thinking like, where is this going to go? In that moment, it's like what's going to happen now Well, while they're fighting yeah, but it immediately shattered its own pants, but in that moment.  It was it was predictable to a tee For me anyway A a slight detour i'm back by the way, uh, but someone had was doing some work mark creation studios was doing some work and he was able to get the The the shirtless Joel model. Yes, if you needed that comparison He's able to pull that and get that all set up Your own personal archives abby definitely beats him out Yeah, I would say so.  Don't make us do this Ben Fall over again when it's obviously just the ice battle of hoth all over again. They totally should have killed thin They totally should have killed. Yeah, the the what's the name of the the person everyone forgets rose. Everyone understands People don't forget her Try to Shrek That would have at least given it some stakes The last Jedi totally destroys luke skywalkers character And this is one of the problems as we will see when we get to the next one one of the problems with the new trilogy Is that it is based on the things he just listed makes it sound like that's worse than the phantom menace No phantom menace had a kid. Oh, yeah, sorry.  Yeah Number nine force awakens again people gonna think this is controversial It is not controversial force awakens is a bad film The reason is a bad film is not because on its own Also, uh, what's the age difference between rose and fin? Do we know? Oh, no Yeah, you can't really tell the age of asians by looking at him.   Sect that he was doing the job for or something And then has him murdered at the hands of his own son because leah is too chicken to go confront her on So now they try as you will see Is he doing like general stuff?  So they're not even working as a team at all like Until until they get reunited medium of ray Well, that's what I mean. So like Well, not what I was saying, but like um So how is that her being a chicken just because Han Solo is out doing his own thing completely separate from her and they don't even communicate with one another I think it's totally reasonable that she doesn't just show up to kylo ren in the first order Her being leia organa. Yeah, like hey, it's me the leader of the rebellion Just come to talk to my son who's on it's past your bedtime come on Don't capture me.   I don't know You know how we're always saying that can just happen You're gonna be shocked by where I rank rise of skywalker jj abram does try to fix this with some lens flare in rise of skywalker But the fact is that force awakens is a is a criminal act against the star wars legacy They decided they were going to kill all the olds in order to Build characters who are significantly less interesting than the old characters in the first place and kill off your childhood in the process Yeah, he's you know I could not hate force awakens more than I hate force awakens. I walked out of the theater I thought okay. That was all right And then every waking moment since then I've thought about force awakens. I've gotten angrier at force awakens And so it ranks in among the among the worst pair awake at number eight It's like hawn's like teaching chan Hey Attack of the clones is lower than rise of skywalker. Wow really he's putting Phantom menace below last jedi and attack of the clones below rise of skywalker. Wow Attack of the clones now everybody hates attack of the clones I've heard people say attack of the clones is the worst of the of the prequels It is not the worst of the prequels phantom menace is a worse film than attack of the clones Why because christopher lee is great and count duke's character Is poorly written but count duke is this is the secret hero of the of the star wars prequels count duke is not wrong He's a separatist from a senate and has been taken over secretly by a sith lord He's the only one who knows this and he has set off to move on outside of a of a But you can't he's in league with him though Yeah He's also darth tyranus Well, I mean what about that line where obi-wan kenobi's trapped in that stasis thing and he offers him his hand to Take him both down marriage. I assume that was bullshit because he works with palpatine before palpatine He is palpatine's then why would he tell obi-wan that the senate has been taken under control by a dark lord like is that a way to get That's I think that's the thing This is the part of the I think it's a huge failing of the movie that this part isn't explored I agree. I think it's really interesting stuff with duke and his relationship with palpatine and palpatine cleat didn't care about him that much because he went sannakin to kill him And there's a lot of stuff that could have been looked into here that they just flat out didn't do Well, I think that's the biggest problem with the prequels is there's a lot of great ideas that were laid out But never executed well or executed at all So you have a lot of what ifs that you can either sell books for which cool It builds the star wars universe, but is the single film itself. It doesn't stand up on it. So trade federation That is Instituting tariffs against planets. He doesn't wish to see tariff. He's a free trade libertarian count duke isn't he in with the trade federation I mean potentially. I mean, I guess it depends on what the trade federation's rules are Um, but we don't ever really learn about that That's the thing if the trade federation turned out to be a very like actually legitimately noble and interestingly developed agreeable faction and the republic is Beyond that he has a pretty good lightsaber battle with both uh, unma greger and yoda Yeah The yoda one is a little I mean, maybe at the time the crazy kind of CGI front flipping yoda was kind of okay, I guess but watching it now. It's pretty ropey Yeah Like bad choices. It's such a it's such a horrible use of the character as well. He was never about his physical prowess in combat. That's like that's the whole point of him. Like you look at him and see this Like he's saying the little thing Yeah, but he's wise and he's powerful with the force that's teaching you an important moral lesson I won't defend it not being silly.  Uh, but the jumping up and down is a little bit like all right. Well I guess he's doing that because how else can you do it, right? Well, that's the thing.  I way prefer the emperor yoda fight than the dooku yoda fight Oh, absolutely all right The The basic plotting of it is more interesting than phantom ennis Now it does have some of the worst romance in in the history of film, right? I mean everything involving hayden christianson and natalie portman. It's a horror show.  That's like this death right there Well, here's the thing he rates that movie higher than this Yeah, that's that's bonkers like We had a guy from lucas film on the channel and he said that was the directive for episode two Is we want to make a romance film and I just I asked him why he's like, well, that's what we wanted to do To get more women to watch Uh-oh working out for lucas film ever since too Yeah, uh, at least they had a a plan to Execute on top of the whole bring women into the franchise thing. That's what me is that's our plan and it didn't work awesome. Oh my god. Oh my god It is that film that more than any Really destroyed my perception of natalie portman is a decent actress I still think that she is wildly overrated But with that said is it better than phantom ennis? Yes, because at least you start to get flashes of what's going to happen in Revenge of the Sith, which as we will see actually is a pretty good movie. Okay number seven. So as we move on into the movies that are That are what? Also, I completely forgot We gotta get three answers We'll go from left to right cynic snacks. Which do you think is better christmas or halloween? Halloween. Yes. I can't believe this. It's insane Oh, we knew the best holiday. Yes Yeah Hey mark, which which do you think is better christmas or halloween? I'm also team halloween. Oh Triple, where do we find these?   It's impossible. You don't have to buy all that stuff You don't have to go outside. No, but I have to exist in the world in which it's contained Like it's unavoidable. Well, that's unlikely to be a problem this year because we'll probably all be in lockdown again Anyway back to Ben Shapiro rating Star Wars movie Watchable right we've now moved into the the arena of movies that you would rewatch if you saw them Beginning on tnt right where you're flipping through it and you see a scene you need to watch it Right, if you're flipping through you see something from force awakens like nope You see something from phantom Venice. You're like double nope something from attack of a cleansing. Hey I want to watch Ben Shapiro flicking through tv channels You're just sitting behind him watching a vault What you plan to watch they're Benjamin I know a lot of people aren't down on solo. I'm not sure why I think solo is amusing It's it's kind of fun. It doesn't sell out Han Solo's character the way that the the Sequels do right the sequels actually destroy Han Solo's character Well, one of those reasons is because solo is a prequel and the force awakens as a sequel So even if even if Han Solo was portrayed to be like the shittiest most worthless horrible person in his own movie At least we know he ends up as the Han Solo we know and love. Yeah Yeah, that makes sense. Meanwhile, they turn him from his whole his whole hero's journey in the original Star Wars on solo is from Rogue who only cares about himself and is a mercenary to self-sacrificing general in the resistance Who's going to get married at the end and have little Jedi babies with Leia, right? That's that is his his hero's journey and then they completely revert him back to Rogue who only cares about himself In in the in the sequels solo doesn't do that solo is is starting that journey The the problem with solo is that it it sort of gives him the hero's journey before the hero's journey He has to start off with being this dissolute rogue who is is Cynical and nasty, right that has to be the hero's journey beginning in episode four solo Proceeds that he already has sympathy towards the rebellion He already is showing some aspects of self-sacrifice which it which is kind of weird. That's the problem with solo Also, I will say that the the Kessel run is completely missed on if you take a short cut in the kessel run It doesn't count as you doing it less than 12 par sex, but it's got some amusing Well, isn't it because you use the technology like the poor hyperdrive fuel or something into the engine directly or some shit? Yeah, he made the ship snort coke or whatever and it made it It's tuned right by that point I sort of get what he's saying about like putting Han Solo through the hero's journey before he's even Like started his character development and you hope so he's you sort of have to press the reset button on him But I could buy into like he's you know Live the life as a mercenary in the years between and he's become hardened again like to to other causes So he's selfish again The film ends with him learning that he got a shoot first, right? Like that's what Solo's trying to do It's like they don't trust anyone out there. He cared and then he got fucked over back to square one, I guess The the problem I had with the Kessel run was that they made it so that it's like the Kessel run happens the first time Han Solo was actually like at the helm of the Millennium Falcon for real and also he fights a Bloodborne boss Well, yeah, when he dropped Cthulhu into the black hole, I was like, this is getting weird Like yeah, that one that one came out of left field He dropped Cthulhu in a black hole Yeah, like why did that have to be part of the Kessel run? Yeah, that could be a thing in the movie but the Kessel run like I thought that was him getting through a thing fast not like Yeah with other complications included That other people maybe didn't have Yeah, he's got the best time or whatever Yeah And so you tell me like the only way the parsec thing makes sense is if he takes a shortcut because parsecs are supposed to be Distance, right? So yeah, the amount of distance shortest route. This is uh, when they drop Cthulhu into the black hole just so you know Believe me all of us when watching this is like That's the thing that just happens is just like oh, this wasn't already tense enough. We need a space Cthulhu monster To really ramp up the tension All of its skin gets ripped off first Yeah, it was kind of like It's just Layering so much stuff on that's so unnecessary.   Someone chat said it's a moon presence from blackboard Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It looks like a blackboard boss Think moment. Uh, the robot in solo is one of the better robots in uh, one is one of the better The robot the robot No I'm gonna make a prediction. I think it's because he thinks it's a parody of like feminists Oh, so that's why he thinks he's one of the best robots. I still don't know if it's a parody or not because it's so well written It's like, I don't I don't know if it's a parody. I don't know The conspiracy theory that um lord and miller were fired because someone figured out that l337 was a parody who is um, that's It's not not totally off base. I could see them being like Using theory Interesting one. That's for certain All of star wars. So uh solo ranks at number seven rise of skywalker at number six So people hated rise of skywalker because they are wrong. Really rise of skywalker.  I didn't hear that correctly said people hate to rise of skywalker because they're wrong No, no, he didn't go back. He didn't so this means that every So what this means is that everything he ranks above this? And you hate you're also wrong Because this is the tipping point now. We're at the good ones. Yeah. Oh, yeah, true Uh solo ranks at number seven rise of skywalker at number six So people hated rise of skywalker because they are wrong I i'm surprised I'm shocked. I don't even know what to do. Please tell me why i'm starting to think six million wasn't enough Oh The edge you're gonna cut six million bad ratings six millions bad ratings for the rise of skywalker because everyone hated it except Ben Shapiro Yeah, if there was six million and one ratings that were bad, they would have gone through Yeah, that's what a man has half of the movie is just throw away nonsense Right the very beginning where you have the the millennium falcon Hop hopping and skipping planet to planet is really dominant useless and very jj abram The part of it that's good is that it actually goes back to respecting the legacy of star wars because remember For no apparent reason in order to kill off the old snake room for the new Trilogy respects the legacy of star wars.  Am I right? Yeah, I am wondering like have you heard the arguments for why this film is a disaster bed like I don't sure if you have because Jesus there's a lot of Further and kill off luke skywalker as a good character and then kill off the idea The skywalker family matters at all because apparently random kids just get the force Yes, we know that's the prequel. We've we've thought that since the originals We've basically had it confirmed since the preq. If jet I can't have kids Where do you think the kids are coming from? Yeah, they just In the ground According to some So, yeah, okay. Well Which under the entire trilogy rise of skywalker retcons basically rise of skywalker is what if I just Crap all over ryan johnson and I'm all for it man. I mean looks about maybe Yeah Yeah, Stalin hated hitler, you know, but It's implied that I'm just the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. Yeah Ah, I just So the rise of skywalker is a good movie because of the directors Contradicting each other He hated the last Jedi so much that even though it's still better than the phantom menace the sheer fact that somebody Did an anti version of that means that it's good I I thought he was supposed to be mr. Logic Hey, it's still and the thing is it doesn't really go as far as it should to try and undo the last Jedi Like it still tries to work within the constraints of what it's established You know, so you've got things like raise parents being nobody's and then suddenly you're saying like oh Well, your parents kind of were nobody's but your grandparents They were somebody like why can't you just say no, it's all bullshit. It's wrong.  Yeah go go that but then it's like Lord remember the force.   Remember the emperor like he's back.  You're like, oh Don't do that And Oh, but but it but it did a middle finger to ride johnson's like well, yeah, but it also did a middle finger to us So like what do you mean? and itself Hey, um, you guys know how ben Shapiro makes his coffee, right?  We're going to shoehorn leah into she was actually a jedi We're going to retcon Luke into why are you throwing? Why aren't you respecting jedi traditions? No burning of jedi books? No throwing way of lightsabers. Why aren't you respecting jedi traditions? We retcon han solo into yeah, he's a hero who cared about his son and was willing to self-sacrifice We retcon everything we retcon everything and we make the biggest retcon of all which is the most important one Which is that ray is actually palpatine's granddaughter Retcon really is it a retcon? No, it's not a retcon It's just about the original like Parents were nobody we know retcon is Anakin's sacrifice Well, so the retcon and comes from uh, remember kylo said your parents were nobody and it's like they are nobody It's your grandparents. That was somebody.  Are we talking about status or we're talking about like I thought the whole point was ability like the reason why she was sad to find out her parents aren't obi ones or Uh skywalkers or whatever it's because that means she has no big powerful family to belong to it It's like no, no, no, you do but it's palpatine. She's like, oh my god Well, wouldn't she be more sad to know that her parents sold her Yeah, well money That's I mean at least she's worth something. That's That part makes me so curious about onka plot. It's like wait, did they sell half portion? Like this is the best place that they could come up with I need I need an onka plot story I need to go through all that with with onka himself and you talk to we got a solo movie I want a plot movie and it's just called plot There's nothing else to plot Just dole in out half portions to people to clarify in a meta sense It was totally it wrecked con twice in a meta sense. It was like jj rooms was totally intending to do something crazy with it there's even Quotes from I think simon peg and someone else around like 2015 16 where they're like, oh, yes Her lineage is going to be very important and the ryan johnson was like lull and then JJ was like well, I got the controls back now and you didn't do enough to like square it off I still got room to say that something's gonna happen But in in universe we can get away fully with kylo just being Being weird how he describes stuff So instead of it was like in in TLJ It was kylo telling ray that her entire family tree for generations were all nobody They just kept selling their kids for drinking money generation after generation Um car plot has just got like generations of rays I feel like This should be put on screen and I want chat to appreciate this Excellent joke that saufa has made very well. Uh, I think that is I think I know if that was me, I wanted So I think give it a clap credit should be given. I think that credit should be given decent Like disney screwed this up and they tried to retcon the retcon afterward, right? They tried to suggest that palpatine was actually a clone palpatine. He wasn't actually palpatine Okay, I understand palpatine died at the end of return of the jedi. I also understand whatever man what I wasn't paying attention for a second Why do that make it make sense I also understand whatever man That's that's interesting, uh, okay That's specifically why it's weird. Yeah, I mean, can you just say this to everything? Whatever man I like that. Like he's like, okay, so we definitely did die. Okay, but he also didn't anyway moving on Okay, whatever it's got to actually be palpatine if this is to have any meaning at all But it makes sense that she's palpatine's granddaughter because the most powerful force being in the galaxy is indeed emperor palpatine Was Yeah, then he exploded twice And now he's even more powerful than before It just it raises so many questions like, you know, did did palpatine have a harem? Did he have like, you know a wife? All these things that are never touched upon because they were clearly never part of the original trilogy And then suddenly you're raising all these questions like how did any of this come about don't know it's never explained Maybe there were always just shitloads of palpatine's but only one of them was like the evil emperor During that time the rest of them were just kind of roaming around the galaxy having like illegitimate children just all over the place party patine This is like when when did Uh, yeah, I don't know. There's yeah, there's too many questions, but like I just don't understand And Shapiro the fax and logic guy is having no problem with rise of skywalker when even if I even try to apply logic To the story and rise of skywalker for a second. I develop a headache To do that it completely solves the mary jane problem Which was a huge problem in force awakens that she picks up a lightsaber and suddenly she's fighting mary jane The marijuana problem with chewbacker and han solo am I right? Dairy jane and tobacco Chewbacca Is that what the the the the wookie weed is called Chewbacca? Um, yeah, they didn't solve the mary jane problem. Oh, did they Mary jane's name for an unidentified dead person That's a jane doe jane jane Mary jane is weed So for her to do that it completely solves the mary jane problem Which was a huge problem in force awakens and she picks up a lightsaber and suddenly she's fighting ben solo Who's been training for 20 years and has skywalker blood right now. She's like, well, no i'm a palpatine kid He's one that doesn't fix that by the way I'm a palpatine kid that still had no training and shouldn't be able to do any of these If you're a skywalker kid, you could do it after 20 years if you're a palpatine kid no training at all And also it's an explanation, but it's not a justification There are people that chat in fulvigus that he bad berry sue. We know Yeah When did i'm a palpatine kid? Check this out right like okay got it that makes sense now that makes sense They bring back all the old music from return to the jedi, which is great They bring back all of a lot of the old scenery from return to the jedi, which is just fantastic It works on ben. Hey guys I Think it's safe to say that now we have confirmation that member berries are kosher They allow han a better goodbye, which was necessary because the way they killed him in force awakens is disrespectful No, that wasn't a good. Bye. That was kyle talking to himself. It wasn't even That was more for like the viewer than for actual han solo who's definitely that was more so they could have harrison ford in a movie It was it was a babery. You know what's funny is force ghost han was off to the left frowning and crossing his arms I would never do that kind of thing.  I should never have come to try and save you They allowed by the way your mother's a bitch Goodbye by having him force rays from the grave the x-wing in the same way that yoda did which is really Fantastic as opposed to the idiotic way they got rid of him in last jedi I mean I like that part like that in another context luke raising an x-wing out of the water like yoda did once That works But it ain't like this Not like this But that's the thing the member berries they stop at that point is like, oh luke lifted something up for the x-wing from the water Like the green alien did that one time I saw them the movie thing They stopped Yeah, I don't I don't think you can give jj abram's credit for doing a call back at this point like come on Sure, he did something that's kind of like a cool thing that happened in the old movies Sure, but didn't he just shit on tlj for being like stop trying to look like hearth stop it Yeah, yeah I I suspected that this would happen that his justifications for this is bad would contradict his justifications for this is good Well, because rise this guy will get just everything wrong He's just gonna be hard to fight a flaw in that one that isn't present in tlj that he guns for Hopefully Joe biden's it right I mean just sort of like plots and disappears of old age And then just so you can have that shot of the two sons like tatsuin. Oh, I see the parallelism God ryan johnson. Okay, so rise of skywalker. I feel like the crazy old man jokes were We're better designed for palpatine instead of yeah I don't know if I was gonna throw in a joe biden. Haha.  We lost so much drink. Oh no, it was drunk lid He dropped his drunk litches Return of the jedi so return of the jedi I would take two thirds of this movie is fantastic and one third of it is silly everything that is luke And darth vader related is just great the final throne room stuff is just fantastic all of that is great Uh, it it has great music The the dynamic between palpatine in mcdermond is fantastic the dynamic between palpatine and darth vader and luke is the best thing about the movie Yep, han becoming a more responsible human being is good the entire speeder scene is actually a very cool scene Han becoming a more responsible human being. What does he mean more responsible? I feel like we Because he's a general, but he's kind of already doing that in in empire Yeah, in empire he goes out to save luke and he's a lot of stuff that he does He stayed with the rebellion for a while, you know Absolutely, and then once he gets woken up from carbonite.  Yes Because luke's his friend Yeah Like the fact that he nearly kills himself to save luke makes me think and he's clearly invested in layer Like I would assume he'd get it paid and then come back It was always under I always thought that uh job would be like yeah, you pay me but it's not good enough And it would have been one of those like return of the jedi situation. Yeah, he's a couple years early I don't think job. I would have no I don't think job.  Yeah, why bother paying him back if he just Have to imagine that off me especially harm would probably give him some You know a bit on top for the delay or something. I don't know Couple I mean he tried that in return of the jedi triple. You're throwing away a deal here. I'm just I figure if you he's that shitty So that was that was after they tried to steal him from under java's nose So at that point I assume he's just punishing them in terms of execution for breaking many laws of any kind Many I was gonna quote the law I love the idea of jumping like section 43 of c 17 On the mean code. Can I can I can I can I get bail triple the cost? He's like no to the solid On indoor The the second death star and and the plot to trap the rebels is good Even land off line the the millennium falcon makes him sense the ewoks are are not great The the space battle doesn't seem to have tremendous consequences. It's obviously not as impactful as the well What are you talking about, Ben? Ben I need to know what are you talking about Well, when he says it doesn't seem that consequence is like first of all several major ships for the rebellion are exploded But the death star also gets exploded. I feel like we get some finality with that space battle, you know We do Yeah Great, I like the space battle part.  Yeah, everyone agrees. It's the ewoks that need work You need if it was a planet full of wookies, it would have gone way better, but even then You can't you that's cultural appropriation Ewoks were invented by a white man. So I don't oh my god. Yeah as the new hope of space battle, but In concluding the trilogy, it's good. Also the the job is stuff at the beginning There's a great thread. I saw from a friend of mine frank Fleming online where he completely deconstructs the job Of stuff would be like what was luke's actual plan? So his plan was i'm gonna send the droids in and then do they get kept by java? Or do they not like if he'd have to then rescue the droids right because if job had kept the droids me like, okay Here's hawn when they've just left r2 and c3pio there. No, so he has lando in their undercover lando Never actually does anything undercover then he sends in the droids to be captured for no apparent reason Then he sends in leia to make the trade with java for hawn, but now he still has to rescue rescue C3pio and r2. No, she doesn't make the trade. She's just offering to sell chewy He's a bounty, right?   So we're down a man basically for no reason. Yeah, but you got some credits java's dungeon Dude that opening is so weird when you lay it out. It's like what in the world is everyone thinking Then he shows up But he doesn't actually just brandish the light saber and tell java he's gonna Blow him away like kill him unless he releases all of his friends He proceeds to be thrown into a rancor pit which presumably lando knew about and could have warned him about like the beginning makes no sense It's fun, but it makes no sense With that said return to the jedi that the the conclusion of the trilogy is very moving Uh, and it definitely works revenge of the sith is number four Now revenge of the sith. I rewatched it recently. It's good. It's a good movie Revenge of the sith the last two-thirds of it is really good. Everything for when palpatine becomes overtly maniacal To the end order 66 that whole sequence is very effective where you're seeing all of these jedi gets shot down and killed All of that is really effective the the Um, I have issues with revenge of the sith. We'll be able to get to that eventually So we'll do a stream for it specifically, but uh, yeah, order 66 pretty good Yeah, I am at the end is good It actually works emotionally when yunma greger is upset about all this now hayden christianson still can't act But that's just the wages of sin. It's good. There's a lot in revenge of the sith. That's great The the final light table battle is is excellent the big flaw in revenge of the sith is that The the sort of rationale for why darth vader becomes darth vader Doesn't really work too well because the question becomes why he still works for the emperor afterward Right because at the he apparently falls to the dark side because he wants the power to be able to say padme Okay, padme dies So why is he still hanging out with the emperor at that point the emperor made him a promise the emperor didn't fulfill the promise Well anakin didn't as a part of what anakin wants just in general is more power. He really likes power he wants the power and He he would tell you it's to help people And of course he ends up using it to kill those he considers to be like blights on the universe Also doesn't go off on padme at the end of the movie anyways So he's already like Yeah, I mean he's he's kind of lashes out. Well, he's furious because he's cold He's told that he killed us was probably even more to send him to crazyville The emperor has access to anakin's old tweets.  All right master you're out Well, yeah, because the emperor says maybe together we can discover the power to save people's lives or whatever Yeah, he has a very tangible like in narrative reason to want to not kill palpatine Of the galaxy if that's really what he's up to it's weird that he becomes sort of a functionary in the galactic regime of palpatine After it turns out that his wife died and palpatine didn't do anything to to save him to to save her number three I'm gonna go off the board. You're ready for this one rogue one Unless you're not against I know a lot of people want to put Revenge of the sith or rotj return of the jedi on this list at this point Uh, I go rogue one. I think rogue one is an actually really well made film A rogue one is fascinating. It has just enough tips of the hat to the original star wars trilogy to draw you in Also, the ending of it is shocking Right, this is one of the new star wars I think it is completely exactly what we everyone thought was going to happen. Yeah Like we knew Is he implying that it's just shocking that darth vader is so brutal because like, I mean he's a sith lord I think it's the whole I oh Is that shocking or is he talking about the fact that he dies?  Uh, yeah, but that honestly shouldn't have been shocking We should know more of the original kind of star wars Recognitions is that nobody who's a major character except alec guiness dies in the first three star wars and not not not a single major I don't think How could you say like, oh no major characters die except the ones that do it's like Sure, who is a who's a hero dies in the first three star wars at least not of old age I mean you know the dies of old age Yeah, sure eventually you narrow it down to I think he's just saying no major protagonist I think is the distinction you should have made but vader very clearly becomes a protagonist right before he dies Like that's yeah, that's the whole fucking point. It's his story Yeah, I find this weird Rogue one kills off all the main characters at the end which is a shock I remember watching this in the theater for the first time. It's like, what what did the what did they just do? Yeah, for me.  That's the whole point of this Yeah, the idea is that we don't know any of these people even though it's set minutes before new hope or whatever So it's like wait a minute Where did they all go? They just set you up with all of these characters who actually like Well I liked the robot the blind guy That was about it The big gunman was pretty cool.  Well, that's that's offensive. I'm telling everyone I can't tell you Then they kill all of them Somebody described. I made fun of them at the time, but they were kind of right They described rogue one as an actual war film as in not just star wars, but natural war film and that I was waiting for him to correct himself. It's an actual war film. I mean, there is walls There's one battle no star wars I mean a lot of rebels get killed and a lot of storm troopers get killed and a planet gets blowed up I think he's referencing I think he's referencing it's more gritty It's a much more When full metal jacket the blind guy went over the field and switched the button. Yeah, that was my favorite part That part was really used to force, okay Yeah, they used to force a lot in full metal jacket Well, I mean remember and save and private ryan when this giant space station appeared over the horizon and blasted all the american troops Ah the secret Nazi weapon I didn't know the Nazis were that prepared Saving Private Wolfenstein That's right, I mean this is about human sacrifice And what people are willing to do in order to accomplish a mission Including giving up your life if you're in this case, you know, probably 25 years old As the main like all the rebel soldiers who die in the original trilogy I was gonna say even the opening of a new hope is pretty like oh, shit, you know Like what they didn't zoom in with their faces so it doesn't count Yeah Who would have thought that people would die in wars Shocking Rogue one is really there also that that final the final scene where Darth Vader finally lets loose Is just ridiculously good And if you ever watch the mashup of the end of rogue one and the beginning of new hope, it's fantastic I wouldn't go that far I really like the ending. See I just don't I don't I don't know that watching the end of rogue one and then the beginning of new hope is Fantastic, I just be like, I mean it fits enough. Yeah, it works here. Why is the CGI lady a human now? Wow, she got wow the CGI just got really good. It's like she's really there Very calm all of a sudden what happened there?  We seemed to wake from an active battle. I was physically watching you guys run away Is like you were there like no, we weren't we were on a diplomatic mission I'm pretty sure that I saw this ship Like 20 minutes ago Yeah, you were literally inside the battleship that I was fighting on I was like, are you sure like if she looks around the other rebel soldiers were shrugging like I I don't think vader's not even like in the scene. She's saying this to like the subordinates of vader comes He's like what she's saying. It's like apparently they would evolve. What do you mean they would evolve? Apparently it wasn't them. They said they said they're on a diplomatic mission. There must be some kind of mistake vader just is bullshit Well, well he does torture her so maybe he was like, yeah, you're definitely lying I'll talk to you just in case That was a different cruiser at a different license plate.  You're right. We just checked him Oh, yes, the very end of rogue one where we're looking for a white honda corolla and in the beginning of episode of episode four where Darth Vader catches Attempted four and they just mash it up and it works perfectly. It's beautiful number two Is a new hope and there's some controversy over whether a new hope should go in front of empire The only reason being that empire wouldn't exist without new hope But that doesn't mean anything. That's not that's not why pe