Okay, we'll run these quizzes. So here is the first question. A function that calls itself is an example of what kind of function. The four choices, recursive, iterative, non-terminating and mirror should be able to write down this answer in five seconds. The next recap is which of the following is or which of the following are false about recursive functions? The four choices given, any one or more may be false. So please read them carefully. Choice A is, must have at least one parameter. Choice B can have only called by value parameters. Choice C may not terminate for some input parameters and choice D cannot call any function other than itself. So whatever is true about a recursive function, you will leave that aside. Whatever is false, this is the third one. For any recursion to terminate the values of parameters, A can change in any order. B must move monotonically towards a termination case. C must stay unchanged in all calls to the function and D must never become negative. So which one of these is the right answer for the values of parameters to be modified such that the recursion terminates? Viranka numbers, which were mentioned in one of the lectures, can be computed and these are four choices. Can be computed recursively but not iteratively. Can be computed iteratively but not recursively. Can be computed both recursively as well as iteratively and neither iteratively nor recursive. Again a straight forward question, next question. When a function recursively calls itself, which of the following happens? A, the activation record on top of the call stack is popped out. B, a new activation record is pushed in the call stack. C, the activation record on top of the call stack is overwritten. Or D, no activation records are pushed or popped. These are the four choices. So when a function recursively calls itself, what happens? Again a fairly straight forward question. Alright, we move to the next question. Specifying a termination case. A, guarantees that a recursive function terminates for all inputs. B, may not cause a recursive function to terminate for all inputs. C, terminates a function if it calls itself and D, helps the compiler avoid generating code for recursive function. So let's spend two or three minutes quickly discussing these questions. Question one, a function that calls itself is an example of what? Recursive, so the answer is A. Which of the following are false about recursive functions? A must have at least one parameter, not necessary. How will recursion work? It can read a variable and then call itself recursively and return a value. B can have only call by value parameters. It can also have call by reference parameters. C may not terminate for some input parameters. Possible if it is not well formed. D cannot call any function other than itself. So you say only C is true, I mean C is false or what are all false? B and D. A and D. Okay. I would like during the discussion session for people having these different answers to discuss it and figure out what it is. For recursion to terminate, which of the following options is correct? Must have monotonically decreasing or moving towards a termination case? Is that clear? Why it must be so otherwise the recursion will not terminate? What is the answer to this question? See you can of course compute this both iteratively and recursively. In fact we will look at some of these aspects through an example later. When a function recursively calls itself, what happens? A new activation record is pushed in the call stack. When a function is called from any program, even if it is not recursive, wouldn't there be an activation record that get pushed? So in short, this is the process of invoking a function. Whether you are invoking it from within a function recursively or whether you are invoking a function only once, an activation record has to go on to the stack. What is the answer to this question? May not cause a recursive function to terminate for all inputs. Depends upon how carefully you have chosen the input value and how carefully you are writing your function. So we have seen that calling a function from itself has same mechanisms of function calls and returns which we have studied. That means an activation record gets created when a function is called. Whenever a function returns, that particular activation record from the stack is popped out and the values are appropriately returned, values are transmitted and so on. So there is nothing new in the mechanism except that when a function recursively calls itself upon successive returns, the then existing values of the internal variables are used for the subsequent processing after the recursive call. It's an elegant and natural way of solving many problems while iteration is contrived. I will mention that in a short while. What about mutually recursive functions? Function 1 calls function 2 which calls function 3 and which calls function 1. Perfectly possible but that's a mutual recursion where recursion is not so very obvious. What is important is that the same mechanism of function calls and returns which works perfectly for this. So what does it do? It actually takes the integer question, Q1 marks, integer Q2 marks. This is the statement which invokes that function from the main program. Cypher equal to new n, Q1 marks comma Q2 marks. So this new encoding function, this is the function. It has two integer parameters. Now look at the switch. Switch is on Q2 marks. In one case when Q1 marks are equal to 1, it returns 6, else it returns 2 into a recursive call Q1 marks minus 1. So what does it do? Q1 marks are successively reduced for whatever value of Q2 marks that you have given. In case it is 1, it will do this, else it will return this value. There is a break after this. What does the default case mean? Anyway, we have discussed this in the case. So what does it do basically? Let us just discuss this particular part. So what will happen if Q1 marks is not equal to 1? For example, let's say it is 3. It will take these marks 3. It will multiply 2 by these into a function called Q1 marks minus 1. That is 2. Since 2 is still not 1, it will come back again and do it. It will multiply 2 into this of 1. And then last time when it will come, it will find it is 1. It will return 6. Will the final value return be 6? No, because this value will be returned to the previous call. And that will be used to calculate something new which will be returned to the previous to previous call. And finally, when you come back through all these jambela, you should get the right answers. So here are some caveats or rules. Number one, you must specify how to terminate the recursion. Otherwise, it can go on forever. And it is as hard to spot an endless recursion as it is to spot an endless iteration. Both require application of mind while you construct the program. This is more important for the recursive function. You must ensure that in any invocation, the recursion changes parameters in an orderly fashion and how that the recursion eventually terminates. So that is the responsibility of the person who writes that function. So look at this. Encode m into n. It encodes m comma n minus 1 into 3 if both of them are greater than 1. Encodes m minus 1 by 1 into 2 if m is greater than 1 but n is 1. And it returns 2 into 3 equal to 6 if m is equal to 1, n is equal to 1. This is the termination case. But this is the termination case for the innermost invocation of the recursive function. The innermost invocation by which time these values are reduced to 1 and 1 are still like this. And when you compile all other computations that would be done with this, further returning some values, etc. Notice that the parameters are changed in an orderly way to ensure termination.  Only when this n reduces to 1 that is you have a larger value of m but n is equal to 1 then it suddenly causes encode m minus 1 comma 1 into 2 again for successive values of this. Each one ensures that the target of the parameters are moving towards a value where you will have the termination case raised where m and n are one. So think of all possible valuations of parameters as ordered with a fixed n. And recursion must change values of parameters so that we move along this order monotonically towards the fixed n. Of course there would be situations where this monotonic movement could take one of several alternative ways. For example, if you take this to be the grid, it shows plot of m and n for different values of m and n varying from 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 here for m and 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 here for n. What is the target destination of termination of the function? When both of them are one. So this is the termination case. Where you can start? You can start from any point on this grid depending upon the initial value of m and n. So this is where you have given encode 4 comma 3 for example. m is 4, n is 3. How do you think your recursive function should move? Will it move like this? The way it is coded, the way it is programmed, will the program move the values of m and n like this? Changing both values simultaneously? No. The first movement is downwards, where the value of n is reduced from 3 to 2 to 1. Once n becomes 1, then the value of m is successively reduced such that m becomes 1. This is how the way the program is written. Is it not possible to do it the other way around? That first the value of m changes and then the value of n changes depends upon the sequence in which you have written the code or the program, the statement in your program. The point is you cannot have a situation where this value threatens to go this side because if it does then there is no termination. So this is the care that you are required to take when you solve this problem. There is also an issue on recursion versus iteration. You have done iterative solutions, they are fairly straightforward, they appear but many times you require a whole lot of thinking to convert a particular algorithm which is actually seen to be a recursive algorithm by the very nature of its specification and you are converting it into an iterative solution. The difference between the two is as follows. If the underlying algorithm, underlying formulation is recursive then a recursive formulation of your program is more intuitive, is natural and succinct, very precise but you need to worry about the termination of the recursive. And of course you need to worry about the number of recursive calls. I will explain it through an example why these could become excessive and therefore may cause a lot more computations to be done instead of what could be legitimately achieved with fewer computations. Iterative formulations on the other hand may be sometimes not very clean, not a solution and you need to worry about the loop invariance now. Just as you have to worry about recursion and recursive functions, you have to worry about iterations terminate. You have to define the loop invariance and the termination criteria and these could be very efficient if done proper. The efficiency point we will discuss in a moment. The best practice is to use a judicious mix of iteration and recursion. Before we go to the next problem I wanted to tell you about a problem which actually is a simple problem. You have written solutions for that problem as a part of writing down iterative programs but the problem itself is fundamentally stated in terms of a recurrence relation. So let us look at that problem. This is a recursive formula. What does it represent? Factorial of n. All of you have calculated factorial many times. How do you calculate the factorial? Suppose you have int nf which is the final result and let us say variable i. I will read the value of n. I am not writing all validations etc but we presume that n is a positive integer. So it is a positive non-zero integer to be very precise because this formulation presumes that f of zero is equal to what is factorial zero. So this is the starting point to kickstart. If I have done this then I can simply start with f equal to 1. Set up a simple counting iteration. This iteration will be executed how many times? n times. i equal to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. And if I simply say f is equal to f multiplied by i and come out here and I output f. Will I get the solution correctly? I will calculate factorial n assuming of course that the input is a positive input. You are all familiar with this program. It is easily done but this program implements the solution using an iterative process. If you were to do it recursively how will you implement it? So let us say instead of this portion I want to have a statement which says f is equal to... So I do want to calculate f. I read the value of n here. I invoke a function f is equal to fact n and whatever I get here I print that out. I want you to write a recursive function fact which takes n as a parameter and recursively calls itself to calculate factorial n. In short a recursive function which implements this particular formula which is a recursive formula. So this is done by Rajat just defines in factorial n. If n is equal equal 0 returns 1 else return n into fact n minus 1. The only problem is the star is written slightly above the line and there is no declaration of n either within the program or within the parameter. Here is another one by Prandtl. In fact in 10 if n is equal to 0 it returns 1 else it returns n into fact n minus 1. In short solution I had written it the same way except that I try to write it more formally. This is my own personal preference whenever I write a form whenever I write a file. In short whenever I write a construct which permits more than one statement to be written then I always write brushes. Suppose tomorrow I want to modify this program and add one more statement here and I forget to add brushes it could have disastrous consequence because then this statement would not remain part of that F. Else I return fact n minus 1. So very simple it will recursively call itself and when it comes down when it reduces n to 0 it will return 1. What is the termination condition? n is 0. How are we guaranteeing that the termination will be reached? Because the recursive call to fact always reduces n by 1 wherever it is. Now let me ask you another question. You have studied Virahanka numbers. What is the recursive relationship which defines the nth Virahanka number? Is that correct? This is a recursive formulation which you can easily use using a recursive call just like you return n into factorial n minus 1. Now which formulation is better and what a recursive formulation in this case is very natural and intuitive but look at the amount of work that the computer has to do. Consider both cases. First consider this function. Every time I come here the compiler will have to create an activation record and put it on the stack. When it then goes back again to do these computations it will again do this check. If it is not the compiler will call the recursively this function again another activation record. So there are overheads. If n is equal to 5 the recursive call will be 5 times and there will be 5 activation records created. As against that if you see the iterative solution there is lot of work there also. The iterative solution has to do how much work? First 5 multiplications i into fact successive. But more importantly it has to 5 times increments the value of i and 5 times check whether i has become equal to greater than n. It is greater than n I have to quit. So 5 extra comparisons and 5 extra increments that will have to be done other than doing 5 multiplications if n is equal to 5 and you are finding factorial 5. As against that this will have to create activation records 5 times. Now creating an activation record pushing values of current variable there then deactivating when you come out and again assigning those values obviously takes slightly longer. So an iterative solution in this case will be slightly cheaper than a recursive call as far as the computations are concerned. Now consider this in this case you first call the function vn this will recursively call agreed because in the same statement you are saying vn is equal to vn minus 1 plus vn.  This on the other hand will now call what? vn minus 2 will call what? Do you notice the extra work that you are forcing the compiler to do? vn minus 3 was called by vn minus 2. vn minus 2 is independently called in another chain of events and that in short invokes this. In fact it is not difficult to understand that there will be a large tree of functions which will be called successively like this and the entire tree will be repeated here and this will happen for every such call. So the number of function calls that get generated the number of activation records that get generated and the activities that need to be done in terms of computations comparisons assignments additions etc etc are far too costly. In fact try to run with a double or some such large it is not just an end it is a long end. Try to run the factorial calculation both iteratively and recursively even on code blocks or any other thing you can see the significant difference in the amount of computing time it takes. The computing time for this will be extraordinarily large. So what do we learn from this? Number one if the computations are to be performed are very tiny like an addition in this case or a multiplication in that case then the overheads which the recursive functions cause may not be a very good idea particularly when the number of calls are going to expand these are going to expand exponentially as you can. On the other hand if the amount of calculations to be done is significant then there is some elegance and some simplicity in programming using recursive function and then it is worthwhile to pay the overhead cost of recursive function. So that is why the last line is very important best practice is a judicious mix of iteration and recursion. Choose iteration when this is appropriate choose recursion when the other one is appropriate but in either case be very sure to write your programs carefully such that either iterations or recursions terminate properly. Some more practice problems which indicate the need for being careful on writing such terminal conditions. So this practice problem builds on the problem that we have discussed very briefly in the class the game of tic-tac-toe. You remember the game of tic-tac-toe? One fellow puts a clause here another fellow puts a tick here and so on and we have said that we will use zeros and ones to mark the play and we have said that instead of such empty squares we will put the value minus one to denote something which has not been written into yet. So this is called the configuration of our tic-tac-toe box. Somebody can put a zero here somebody can put a one here some first player puts a zero here second player puts a one here third player idiotically puts a zero here and the second player wins. This is very clear fine. So this is the winning move. So what is the winning move? Any move in which you have three ones or three zeros in succession across a line column or diagonal. So configuration now this is a problem this is a programming problem. A configuration of the tic-tac-toe grid is represented by sequence of nine integer value. These values are stored in variables x1, x2, x3, x4, x5, x6, x7, x8, x9. These values represent the following points of the grid. So this first row is represented by x1, x2, x3 second by x4, x5, x6. The third column is represented by x3, x6, x9. One diagonal is represented by x3, x5, x7 etc. Once you know the thing then in whichever way x1, x2, x3, x5, x9 etc return you know exactly which variable represents which position. So this is the configuration. What should be the possible values of x1, x2, x3 etc? Zero, one or minus one. There is no sanctity of any one of these values. We are presuming that minus one represents an empty square. We are presuming that zero is the symbol used by the first player and one is the symbol used by the second player. So this configuration that we had seen will actually translate into this. x1 will be zero, x2 will be one, x3 will be zero. Here x4 where there is nothing is minus one, x5 is one and so on. So if these are the values of variables then this is the photographic image that it should represent in our mind. This is the situation, the board. There are a very large number of possible combinations because there are nine variables and although each one of them can have only three values, a large number of possible value. But not all possible combinations are correct configurations. For example, all variables having value zero, is that a possible correct combination? It's like I'm playing with no opponent there, I make my first move, then I make my second move, then I make my third move, I win but I still make my fourth move, fifth move, etc. And I put all zeroes. That is not a valid tic-tac to combination. So amongst the very large number of combinations there are some which are valid, some which are not valid configurations. You have to write a C plus plus function that takes as an input and input configuration and determines who should move next. The simple problem, please note, no iteration, no recursion, nothing, just a function. The function name is next turn and the next turn should hopefully return which of the two possible values? We have already assumed that the first player marks zero, second player marks one. So if next turn returns zero, it is the first player's next move. If the next turn returns one, it is the second player's move. That's the assumption we'll make. You want this function to return a numerical value zero or one depending upon what you conclude by examining values of x1, x2, x3, etc. up to x9. First you have to check whether the configuration is valid. If so, count the number of zeros and ones and determine who moves next. That you have to return. In this particular case, who is supposed to move next? One, very quickly found out. What did you do? Counted all number of zeros, counted all number of ones. If they were equal, it was zero's turn to move. If they were unequal, one's turn to move provided they were unequal only by one. Otherwise the configuration itself is invalid. Remember what I told you? It's like one player saying zero, zero, zero before giving chance to someone. Not permit. Another player saying one, one, one. Not permit. Of course if you presume that the fellow who wrote the program and calling this function to get the next turn has done some sensible things there so that any extraordinarily bad configuration does not come to me to begin with. But it is still useful if the check whether the configuration is valid. So please write this function. Again repeat, this is a simple C++ programming exercise. Nine variables are given. x1, x2, x3, x4, x5, x6, x7, x8, x9. All integer variables. The values that you get in, you can assume that the values are guaranteed to be either zero or one or minus one. But you still need to check whether the configuration is valid. And if it is valid, count the number of zeroes and ones and determine who moves next. The first line of the function is given here in next turn, except what Professor Supratik has written as dot dot dot is not permitted. So you have to fill up your notebook by saying int x1, int x2, comma int x3, comma int x4, comma int x6, comma int x7, comma int x8 and comma int x9. Right? And then bracket close. Then of course you have to put a brass here and start writing your program. No dot dot dot. Because the morning when I showed this, some fellow wrote a code to look at x1, then look at x2 and then wrote dot dot dots. The C++ compiler does not understand dot dot dot. So it has to be a properly written function. So is the function defined as in next turn is defining i and j. As you can guess, he is putting the count of all zeros in variable i and all ones in variable j. Starts with the count as zeros and he meticulously examines each variable. If x1 is 0, i is incremented, else if x1 is 1, then j is incremented. For any other value set neither of the counts is incremented. He evaluates these for each of the 9 variables x1, x2, x3, x4, x5, x6, x7, x8, x9. Now he examines the total number of zeros and total number of ones. If the total number of zeros are equal to total number of ones, then the next turn is that of the first player that is 0, so he returns 0. If on the other hand, i minus j is equal to 1, which means the number of zeros is more than number of ones, then that is the turn of one, so he returns 1. If the number of zeros or number of ones are more than number of zeros, is that possible? The second player could not have played more number of times than the first player, so that is invalid. Any other combination is invalid, so he returns minus 1. In fact I would think even this condition is not required. It is actually a simpler solution if you count only the number of minus ones, that is you assume that the numbers are either zeros, ones or minus ones. Then the next turn can be obtained only from the count of minus ones, how?  However, it presupposes that the numbers of one and numbers of zero are in proper fashion, that means they either same or they differ only by one, otherwise somebody has goofed up in sending the configurates. Here is another solution where a wide count function is defined. It has a variable, it is a variable c0 and variable c1 and these are passed by reference. So that means whatever are the original c0 and c1 variables, they will be affected if they are changed here. The variable x is one of the nine, when you come here that variable is examined if it is zero, c0 is incremented, else c1 is incremented if it is one. If it is neither, none of the counts are incremented. So notice how the author has cleverly avoided writing very long statements in the program. All that the author does is count of x1, count of x2, count of x3, count of x4, these are all function invocations. So the same function count of x is being invoked. There is no assignment, no nothing, no value return is expected because the calculations of the counts are being done inside the function using variables which are passed by reference and which are defined, these are the definitions, these are the main functions. So in this function int c0 and c1 are defined as integer variables. The poor fellow started off by examining its individual variable but I want each one of you to appreciate what the program is doing. Generally whenever we talk of functions recursive or otherwise, we have always seen the function references coming in some assignment statement, y equal to function of something, y equal to n into function of something. We have ordinarily not yet encountered in a program that we write a function which is just a standalone invocation like this here. Please remember that when I invoke a function like this, count x1, the value returned is not going to be used anywhere. So there is no point in having a function which returns a value if it is going to be used just as a standalone call. The objective of this function is somehow to go here with a different variable each time, once with x1, once with x2, once with x3 and so on. And all the if statements that you are ordinarily required to write for each of these variables independently are now cleverly written inside this single function here. So if the variable that you get is 0, you increment the 0 count. If the variable that you get is 1, you increment the 1 count. And after these 9 invocations, all your decision is going to be based only on c0 and c1. I have not examined whether this invocation is right or wrong. Please look at this and comment whether this will work. If c0 is equal, equal c1 plus 1, player 2's turn. c1 is the count of 1's, c0 is the count of 0's. Number of 0's is 1 more than number of 1's. So clearly second player's turn and return 1. Else c out player 1's turn, return 0. Of course, Nudul is expecting that the fellow who is calling this function with these 9 variables is not behaving idiotically and is sending me a configuration which has only 0's, 1's and minus 1's and nothing else. That's the assumption, right? So basically it's a valid thing. But if these two conditions are not correct, the returning minus 1, because any other combination where the number of 0's and number of 1's mismatch by more than 1 is invalid. This is a good solution here. So this was just another way of doing things. Understood? Alright, let's go to the next solution. Where instead of if and else's, the person is simply counting all 0's independently and all 1's independent. The only difference between this and a solution with else is that in the solution with if and else, the else condition will not be examined if the if condition is true. So the number of comparisons that you will do by using an else clause are going to be totally less because each number is either 0 or 1. If it is 0, you just calculate it. If it is 1, you may fall into the else clause. Whereas here you may do everything. For example, in a case where both numbers are equal, you may actually end up doing extra comparisons but the program will work correctly anyway. Alright, go to the next problem. So look at this problem. Given a configuration of tic-tac-toe, we want to determine if there is a winning or losing move of the next player. So what is the winning move of 0? A move of 0 from which there is at least one way for 0 to win, no matter how one plays. No matter how one plays, there is going to be a win for 0, at least one way. There could be more than one way and winning move of 1 is similarly defined. Here is an example. So this is a configuration. All the remaining ones are minus 1. So this is 0, 1, 0, 1. Now it is the turn of 0. So please note the winning move does not mean that 0 or 1 wins immediately. A winning move means that a move by 0 which if played, then no matter what one plays next, 0 will always win. Or the same way for 1 as well. So look at this. If the next move is that of 0 and he plays here, then the winning move of 0 is x7 equal to 0. Is this the only winning move? If instead of this, if I move here, is it not also a winning move if I put a 0 there? Because the second player can either block this diagonal or can block this diagonal but not both. Now there are two winning moves. The question that we have to answer is a move of 0 from which there is at least one way for 0 to win, no matter how one plays. So this is good enough. This move of 0 here is good enough. One can win like this or one can win like this. One meaning 0. 0 can win like this or like this. No matter what one plays. So guaranteed win for 0 no matter how one plays. Now this is the next stage in the game. You have already written a function which tells you back as to whether the configuration is correct and whose move is next. Now suppose you have 0th move. So you have to determine whether there is a winning move for you or if you are 1 you have to determine whether there is a winning move for 1 for you. So how will you determine that? Instead of this example, I am 0 I played this, 1 played this. I am 0 I played this, 1 played this. Now in this case do I have a winning move? Why I do not have a winning move? Because if I play anywhere here, here, here, here or here do I guarantee that whatever one plays I will win? No.  So not only there is no winning move but there are a set of losing moves for me. So in this particular case next move of the 0 there is no winning move because cannot guarantee win for 0 for any next move. However I can find a losing move for 0. A losing move from which there is at least one winning move for the opponent. Thank you.


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check out a movie called game changers the the long distance marathon runner vegan the oldest lady to medal in the olympics for cycling vegan and she says she should have she should have done it sooner so and we hear that from a lot of people i've been vegan for seven years i know countless people lost 30 pounds their first month going vegan they got rid all the varicose veins in their legs after 30 days of being vegan um and they were 60 years old and thought they would have this problem the rest of their life so it's actually a very healing diet it's not detrimental to our health but that's another topic for another day you could just eat chips and crisps and be vegan so it would also you could also eat a lot of rubbish and and be carnivorous so it's not that there is one vegan diet versus one uh uh carnivorous diet so of course if people ate all sorts of garbage uh but were carnivorous they would have health problems and they switched to a vegan diet that was healthier than the previous one they would not have this uh those problems anymore but at the same time i i don't doubt Andy had a very serious illness and that his switch for for diet uh really helped him i don't doubt that for a moment but i also gave the counter example of someone who had problems with plant-based sustenance and switching over to a carnivorous one and getting those results not to mention all the things with brain uh implementations that are solved with butter and and and all sorts of things so it's not a one size fits all i don't have a problem if people want to go vegan i don't have a problem with that but this is not the topic of the debate it's not is it acceptable to be a vegan it is is it a moral duty biblically this one coming in from do appreciate your question nick says if the vegan diet is starving people of nutrients could vegans we just did that one thanks for that georgia of porgy says nathan would you stop my cat from killing a bird yeah if i could i would try and end violence against other animals whenever possible just like i would try and stop violence against people whenever possible oh my god what a noble concept it's actually possible to do that right now why aren't you doing it bucko this one from oliver b pares says for the vegans if you were in a situation where feral animals attacked and killed a loved one and was coming after you next would you kill it while having the means of defending yourself so imagine you have some sort of firearm that could for sure bring down the animal yeah sure that's not the same thing is going through a drive-through and ordering mcdonald's from an antelope and stabbed in the neck yeah to be honest they're probably isn't a question wasn't for you possibly have a vegan sorry go ahead and i'm saying it there's no animals i know you're talking during our question i know we heard you it's just not your turn to talk go ahead and yeah i was going to say i mentioned this a little bit ago that according to yashua it is perfectly acceptable to kill an animal in self-defense so why not i have a question about self-defense if you're on an island and it's your christian and your view moral duty to not eat animals and you're about to die do you do you fulfill your moral duty and not killing the animal or do you eat it and justify living in why the audience is turned to ask questions jimbab so if you want to submit a super chat down below and ask us that go ahead but other than that andy he's trolling let's not talk to them anymore it's another unique and unlikely circumstance it'll never happen in our life but that those are the questions he loves the most here's something that'll never happen starvation doesn't starvation doesn't happening what are you talking about no you asked me if i was stranded on a desert island and all this crap you think of the most unique and unlikely circumstances to put us in to try and trap us and i'm just saying that's silly you need to quit we can go on with the next question in the chat though this one coming in from do appreciate your question coffee breath says can i eat jellyfish which don't have a brain bacteria avoid predation by swimming faster is this a will where is the line between raw macanation and a will dude wants to go with can they eat a jellyfish because it has no brain i don't know the anatomy of a jellyfish i thought it was an animal maybe i'm wrong i thought it was an animal but if that's something i need to look into i will would bug you answer worms i don't do bugs either worms just out of curiosity i'm not trying to grill you worm you know i don't need worms i know people who eat meat have worms all right fair enough good job they said bacteria avoid predate predators by swimming faster is this a will and i think when they see raw macanation i think like macanation not like uh like scheming but macanation or i think maybe they mean like machine likeness because the bacteria propel themselves away is that is that a is that a will that the bacteria has if it's propelling itself away from the predators let's go to a more serious question that is a very serious question that's the foundation of your argument dude because it's not about bacteria yeah why that is what what he is asking he's asking why if it tries to escape so he wants to live yep silence are you you're equating the bacteria taking the bait dude you're taking the bacterial bait there you're not taking the debate it literally tries to escape meaning it's alive it wants to preserve itself why did god make bacteria with a will to for self-preservation he doesn't address bacteria in the bible he addresses animals and humans so i can speak on their behalf no no no okay um but but then you would have the same problem like if it doesn't which one is it like with the jellyfish it doesn't have the breath of life i can't i don't i don't know i need to maybe i need to study the anatomy of a bacteria but like i said it's it's not an animal what about a crab a crab is an animal so it has a will to live and you ought not kill it because it really wants to live sure what about an oyster uh yeah i i view oysters the same way we can get into some gray areas where you can try to trap us and i might have personal opinions and nothing biblical we can do that if you want but uh i think you have to take each and every case individually when you're starting to get into uh maybe it's not an animal type crap would you which technically we can't get into that because this is the question and answer portion from the audience we were we already talked to you guys when i don't know why stealing time from the audience stealing time from super chats is important questions i want to because andy would you agree that controlling it would be interesting to determine where that line becomes less blurry right where some people use the term sentience right we we always ask well if a like is it a crab is it before the crab and then if if there is an assumption of where that line is what we constantly ask really is is how did you determine the line not what what you think the line is but how did you actually delineate that line of uh smudge reactivity to sort of sentient thoughtful desires of a being or in your case a being or a or a an animal and i don't i think you admit that it's blurry you think it's there but you're not really sure where it is i i think i mean it would be neat to know like uh like because even when you look at plants under microscopes you see these organisms but do they have a central nervous system and are they thinking type of stuff i don't know i know what's obvious what the creator talked about in genesis one plants and animals and humans that they're you know so i can't speak on uh plant cells or bacteria sorry if i i can't appease your your question on that reason it's a reasonable question i don't need you to but it's i think it's an important question for when we make moral claims about trying to say it's not it's not a legitimate question it's not important i think it's the root of your entire argument well it's not an animal yeah and determining what is an animal what's not is the blurry part so it's essential to your argument i think you're the only one confused on what's an animal here jimbab you guys think plants are animals so our oysters okay our oysters animals all right next question james thank you thank you well i'm sure it'll come back up posh because it's an interesting uh i i get i'm interested in like where the lines are drawn kingdom of context says all of scripture has to be rewritten for veganism to be biblical from genesis to ezekiel's millennial temple animals are used for covenant meals prepared to the almighty by his priests well this guy also teaches that jesus is now killing animals in heaven either i don't know do a tone for your sins or because he's a glorified chef so uh he takes the context out of context the worst more than anybody i've seen so it's hard to take any of his questions seriously he can't really get past square one so i don't know i don't i don't have an answer i don't care to answer that this one from and say by truth says 613 commandments by god in the old testament but nothing on veganism those are some hard-working corrupt leabytes do not kill i mean did you guys forget kill what kill what a tree according to you you want to bill cosby a cow no you said don't kill so why not a tree why not a broccoli you know why not why kill that it's life right so you have an established what it actually means to kill right or not to kill something do you kill a plant when you harvest it and there's no more roots yes there's thou shall not kill broadly undefined right moving on this one from tristan haigard thanks for your question says is andy a hebrou roots guy what tradition is he coming from so i was raised in a christian home i've been a part of the hebrou roots community for a few years i came out of that just because the theology was so messed up and um so i i definitely that's that's what my book is directed towards the hebrou roots community they think god that you have to kill a lamb on Passover to be saved to be in covenant with him so uh yeah hebrou roots is kind of a sore spot with me just because you are dealing with so many hard headed people who subscribe more to popular ideology and that's where people get a lot of the uh the the context a lot of the bad context they are sort of ice agitating animal sacrifice into uh genesis chapter one because they use the law of moses to say that that's how you have to interpret genesis chapter one uh so i wouldn't get into it but yes for a few years it was a part of me or i was i was into it but um i don't really lean more towards hebrou roots uh or christian one way or another but i'm i'm definitely a believer in Yeshua and uh that our creator designed us to eat plants you got it this one coming in from do appreciate it theo megawarty says question and this is serious they say to the vegans can you read on air and respond to first timothy four one through five yeah first timothy four is about uh people being commanded not to marry and to abstain from certain foods the word there might be translated meats but it actually means food or substances that are eaten did you read that like like meat i'll read it for you they say now the spirit expressly says this is in the esv by the way now the spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons through the insincerity of liars whose consciences consciences are seared who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that god created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth for everything created by god is good and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving for it is made holy by the word of god in prayer yeah the problem is that people read that and they think animals are food so when they walk into that text they're thinking of animals when it just talks about food our animals food can animals no they're not humans have made them into food so i can eat an animal and as food but it's not food you have made it into food you're creators so it's food so it's food so it is food you could eat a sock jimbab that doesn't mean a sock is food actually you know no no it wouldn't but it's not good no it wouldn't for you jimbab it wouldn't it wasn't for you but it's food so you're going to talk putting your sock in it is about not eating it but having it stay there and having problems talking so you're contradicting yourself thanks i was very confused about that that's a definition of a problem that's a definition of you're confused about a lot of things uh this one coming in this one coming in from the omega word he strikes again says god gave us rules about eating animals as well as permissions to eat animals in the scripture directly therefore the vegans opinions are irrelevant allowed to it's not a requirement doesn't mean that it's optimal either so you might want to do a little research into that again we're we're allowed to uh polygamy is not against the law we're allowed to have yes it is we were oh was it because it was it says you shall not you shall not marry women sister to sister i can use uh i can use other examples but uh there are plenty of things like slavery like Nathan was talking about in the beginning where they they were allowed to do things that was never god's will it was not according to design and that's why you know uh yes you are he came correct in people he said yeah you're allowed to get divorced things like that but according to creation that the messiah always pointed back to creation and he even did that when he was talking about flesh eating he pointed to creation to show his viewers his ears that what what the diet was supposed to be this one coming in from do you appreciate it the omega word he strikes again says read romans 14 they also say chilean cat actually says everything that lives and moves about will be food for you just as i gave you the green plants i now give you everything genesis nine three yeah but that's based on the definition of food which is eating stuff for nutrients yeah enjoy your snakes and spiders bro since i'll eat them then whoever keeps using i i got i want to say something whoever keeps using genesis nine three can you just go ahead and read the next verse uh that says don't eat the flesh or the blood and then keep reading because god makes a covenant with all the animals that's huge guys a covenant with the animals what do you think the covenant was just to eat them here i'm making a covenant with you so that you can be eaten by the humans it just doesn't make sense this one coming in from do appreciate your question enslaved by truth we got that one the 40 year old vegan says all should for all should the u.s constitution include religion i don't even know what they mean by that i'm pretty sure it already does but yeah not the first amendment freedom of religion i think technically strictly speaking the amendments are distinct from the constitution so i don't know exactly what they mean by it um let me know in the chat i mean i i don't mean to i could be wrong about that nathan so maybe that's what they were saying but the omega word he says i could do this entire debate with only scripture then says i haven't heard a cogent statement since i joined oh my gosh they're really hammering you they i think they're talking to you they because they were targeting you earlier nathan and andy they're targeting you here we didn't make any cogent statements yet we got our opposition to agree the bible starts and ends vegan so obviously that was coherent enough for them to agree upon also starts without sex yep whoops whoopsie enslave anything it just whoopsie enslaved by truth's have you had anything i don't give you a chance otherwise uh it's not worth it you got it only a few more questions reading closely on these enslaved by truth and this might go back to the interesting question that posh had of technically it's not the exact same thing but it's in the ballpark of where where we draw the line posh's question being on oysters this one says eating apples stops trees from reproduction well the guy who stabs cows in neck pretends he cares about trees andy that fake laugh that is actually funny the guy is pretending to care about trees yet he has a position that we should stab animals in the neck no no no no that was not a real laugh but but to be honest only with a vegan diet can you have that poor of a fake laugh so i'll give you that as a necessary prerequisite that's the omega word he says i haven't oh we got that one they said i dedicate this debate to my next delicious steak and then says or enslaved by truth says laughing my butt off yeah vegan moby looks great what's moby moby's an artist moby uh debatable but maybe he means steak as an sdak e so he's eating a tree a pointy tree american musician andy you look like a famous popular musician i used to listen to moby a lot i loved him i never knew he was vegan i even had his animal rights album when i was young i just never cared about veganism so i was quite surprised to learn a few years ago that one of my favorite artists as a teenager was vegan okay this one from zen Shapiro says the vegans keep appealing to eden because it was perfect however adam and eve were naked before the fall should we replicate that as well veggie boys uh don't worry we mentioned heaven as well which is where we're all going and there will be no t-bone steaks or hamburgers or hot dogs in heaven there will be no death yeah no answer that was an answer that's the question should we go around naked because you didn't like the answer jim bob doesn't mean that it's your turn to ask a question okay it's a question to answer portion from the audience next question no answer what about failure disrespecting the audience i i got a kick out of let's see the oysters question though i do want to i do want to press you nathan if you have any other thoughts for zen's question comment before we go to the oyster because i just out of curiosity i'm not trying to take a side but because i it's not like it i just want to hear what your guys's thoughts are on some of those gray areas like uh shrimp might be another one but remember like roaches of the ocean oysters are the filters of the ocean if you put 20 oysters in a fish tank of dirty water you're going to have clean water the next day now you want to argue we should consume all that it's a literal pollution collector for the ocean and people are like oh let's eat it it's fancy no it's but you understand in the end times good will be treated as bad and bad will be treated as good so being a good steward of animals according to posh and according to jim bob with their antichrist spirit say stab the animal in the neck that's being a good steward go back and watch the debate they said that guys yes yes this in terms of zen's comment or question is should we replicate this are you in new i wouldn't be surprised nathan are you a nudist like what are your thoughts on this namely that prior to the fall adam neve were naked what are your thoughts i like you know to be consistent is it uh i think they're saying like hey to be consistent what do you think about that like what's your justification for distinguishing why we draw the line on this case is there a good reason for why this is a where we would not go naked you know i haven't thought about that gotcha this one from the omega word he says the vegans haven't made one scriptural point to quote unquote yes they're coming he's coming at you this is Theo he's got he's got an appetite go ahead what have you got sounds like a blood thirsty appetite enslaved by truth let's see let's see it's laid by truth apparently not a fan of jim bob something about let's see he says i will let you guys sort that out georgia georgia of porgy says nathan will you stop a gecko from eating a cricket if i could try and stop violence against animals i would ladies and gentlemen just like if i saw violence happening against a human i would also try and step in and end that i mean i don't understand what is so difficult about this would you stop ducks from reproducing because they do it rather violently next question james duck lives yeah this one from coffee breath can i eat an urchin like a a sea a sea cucumber a sponge or a starfish these are all animals with no brain all more complex than a mosquito can i kill a mosquito and i guess you have to decide for yourself there's a lot of gray areas if i don't know you could look at at killing a mosquito with self defense because of what might be contained in their blood and you could easily justify that but when it comes to eating certain things uh i would pretty much just stay away from whatever you can whatever you can unless you know it's a plant that was meant to be consumed that's the best advice i can give you got it this one from enslaved by truth okay they were just teasing before so they okay i just in case there was like some sort of uh conflict i didn't want to bring it in here but they were the one that earlier i said enslaved by truth is apparently not a fan of jimbab because they said jimbab's mods timeout paid members is this some sort of meme or joke they say they say oh it's yeah okay they say actually i'm a huge fan of jimbab okay i just didn't want to in case there was a fan he's a fan but he doesn't like me that much but he's a fan but uh my mods are very uh either like you know you know ravenous watchdogs that's excellent they also said jimbab's mods ban jimbab supporters juicy well right nick says short colon long small intestines bile protein enzymes strong jaw teeth capable of masticating raw meat no fiber digestion in the appendix stomach acid 1.5 ph what anatomy makes us vegan again well you have flat teeth uh not canines like a lion or a bear i'm sure you have uh fingernails you don't have claws uh real carnivores consume the animal sometimes while it's alive raw from the tongue to the anus and until i see jimbab out in nature doing that i've even i've i've i've eaten uh of animals uh full intestines all the way to the the anus in a in an asian soup that's wonderful jimbab so don't spew lies about me why are you so racist against asians alive with your teeth in your hands i would eat an animal alive if i had to wait but but you have to there's no alternative to killing an animal it's not preferred that's the good thing we don't have to but yeah people still choose to have to have to for what andy we don't have to eat animals to survive you don't have to eat anything you're gonna just die why do you have to survive only eat animals because it's convenient it's a part of their religious paradigm uh it's what they've always known but you know the average person doesn't eat flesh because you don't you don't have to survive you don't have to be starving yeah but you don't have to do a lot of things you don't have to be alive so i don't see how that's an argument you don't have to this one coming in from do appreciate it samaria anna says andy slash nathan how did you get into serious debate platform without understanding the concept of an internal critique i snuck in with a fake id juicy this one from adult small bear says slavery is okay as long as it's a dumb dog not a person i don't look at geo as a slave i look at him as a companion companion that could go out in nature and get hit by cars or possibly start death trust me i think he has a much better life with me being my companion or even my slave than he would out there in houston texas where i found him all right andrew tate yay this one the 40 year old vegan clarified regarding the question of whether or not religion should be in the constitution they say i know it is already but where does the bible stand on it or god i don't think the the american constitution is based on the bible you got it and this one coming in from enslave by truth says i really like jim bob jim bob should relate to his fans why don't you guys get a room tell us juicy this one let's see oh i think there's one more other ones that came in earlier this one was from eric thanks for your question says ask made by jim bob quote unquote how we know that he has feelings and i think he's saying like hey at the very start of the debate there was discussion over animals whether or not they had feelings or a will or desires i would just communicate what we know the universal category the feeling is and then inside that category i would select a particular like angry mad or frustrated um or embarrassed for my opponents and i would convey that through language using the laws of logic perhaps a mathematical equation if someone could uncover the meaning or draw a picture and so i have a variety of ways i can convey what a feeling is that i have a feeling and i assume other people have feelings too such that they can actually isolate what i meant uh through the identity over time thank you but being embarrassed jim bob it's just a reaction to losing the debate jim bob we just reacting you can you didn't actually thank you for telling us how that feels but uh it's a reaction thank thank you for understanding the the question that's close to you that you didn't answer but also uh we would say as humans we know what the human mind is like we don't know what a dog like uh dog mind is like that is going to be a category difference there that is why we don't make claims on on dogs having the same attributes as humans but you know they have different bodies no we would say they have completely different minds and we have no scriptural basis for thinking otherwise you got it this one coming in from do appreciate it all right just see this the the omega wordy strikes again says the vegans position was that we have a biblical duty to not eat meat then they said in response to me that we are allowed to eat it thank you for debunking yourselves we are allowed to uh sure yeah i'll agree you you are allowed to do a lot of things our argument ladies and gentlemen maybe we have the wrong title for the debate is that it is morally superior it is more in line with the creator's intention and will for our lives to not stab animals in the neck he wants us to be good stewards now if i gave my child to my brother-in-law to watch or babysit for the weekend and he said i stabbed him in the neck because that was being a good steward that's what jim bob and posh think is being a good steward that would be ridiculous but you do it with animals and people are like oh bravo that's so smart yes we have an obligation to stab animals in the neck brilliant good exactly we don't do it with humans we do it with animals no thank you let me stop you now some people do do it with humans too just by the way here's the people you do it with some animals but not others people know that it's immoral and inhumane when it comes to like dogs and cats but when they do it to animals that they consider food that's not true it's perfectly acceptable that's that's not true the koreans would have a word with you yeah these guys don't even think it's wrong to molest an animal no that's no internal critique internal critique this one coming in from broken record broken record you guys certainly have chemistry this one coming in from pk says andy what is the population of vegans nathan can you please stop pissing and complaining and relax might help your position a little thank you i am relaxed this is me very relaxed coffee is vegan i suppose so is math at a roll will you say it's not i okay we'll give you a chance to georgia pedagogy says hey nathan would you stop a mama bird from feeding its birdlings live worms no no i wouldn't do that juicy this one from adult small bear says dookie doggie slaves doggie slaves film them for money he is he has a very eccentric sense of humor it's probably a reference we're all missing you got it and then jan thanks for your question have you or do you consume yeast as the bible gives more prohibitions and more explicit ones on that or do you choose what to follow high and thanks well the bible talks about how christians are on a narrowing path a lot of people will misconstrue it or say that it's a narrow path it's actually a narrowing path so the day you become a christian you don't know everything about being a christian you have to learn it so the path is narrowing it becomes wide is the way that leads to destruction like babelon and everything they're doing killing animals uh and narrow is the way that leads to heaven you got it this one from demassing the movers says andy would make a great orthodox monk monks have vegetarian diets not out of compassion for animals but rather for self-denial desiring to emulate the edinic state orthodoxy affirms a hierarchy well maybe not orthodox i'm anything but orthodox but okay i'll go with it just to be clear orthodox monastics are not allowed to eat meat but they do eat dairies the person did say vegetarian but they will see fish so this that's not exactly how it works but the reason again is self-denial and like a lot of things that are mentioned in the bible it has historical context so the reason they don't eat meat is because meat is a luxury historically speaking fish is poor people food that's why you are denying luxury that is part of discipline and in english you have a pretty interesting etymological vestige of this where a lot of your name for the animal is not french but the meat of the animal is french like with pig and pork and cow and beef because the french after the norman invasion the aristocracy was french and spoke french at least if you want to go with the home oh no the nordic etc but at the same but they did speak french and that is a vestige of that time but it's about luxury not about oh it's bad to eat animals because then you wouldn't be allowed to eat fish like jesus did you got it this one coming in from do appreciate it the omega word he says i won this debate best 32 dollars i spent in a while thanks to that and mo bash says since meat eaters keep asking about the quote unquote threshold why is it wrong to torture animals to death if it's okay to kill them it is because the torturing is just powerless and we believe it is demonic to engage things such as that there is no point to it other than just causing suffering if you kill for food that's completely different from torturing to death because there is no point to it right and i would actually add to that that as a human being you would be some place in spirit right and with intent to do that right it wouldn't be like i'm hunting and you have compassion for life and you and you take it and it feeds your family and such this is not like a vicious like looking at the animal with hatred right you're not it's not a hatred of creation or anything like that whereas a torture well essentially would be an act against yourself first right you would be already acting against yourself before you you enact something it's a spiritual it's a spiritual not a legal problem right right you got it trope says nathan stated his dog is an omnivore why does he only feed it plants as if it were a herbivore is he denying an animal's wants and needs omnivore means it can eat dead animals does not mean it is required to eat animals that would be a carnivore so if i had something like a lion in my garage and i only fed him plants you could argue yes that goes against his will or or actually what he's designed to eat but sorry but not the same as a dog mo bash says to the meat eaters in the debate picking on andy they don't exactly look like like they uh they lift a much that's gordo did you guys i don't remember you guys ever making fun of andy yeah they made fun of him and they made fun of me i heard it wait i don't remember that i remember you calling people it was a super chat but we didn't i remember you calling people meat heads Nathan but i don't remember them making fun of andy yeah meathead has nothing to do with someone's appearance it's more like their philosophy of being okay with eating and killing and being violent towards sentient defenseless innocent animals you mean a coherent philosophy juicy i'm sorry i have to go to the bathroom quickly i'll be right back no problem yeah this i'm from the slave by truth says jim bob's mods timeout paid members weak in all caps i already sorted it out you got it and then i think there's maybe one more we got jans i think we're actually all caught up let me check this list over here want to say folks let me give a hard if you have not already opened up a new tab let me give a hard plug for our guests seriously really do appreciate them they all have their own links in the description box and certainly you've enjoyed this because for real i can tell the engagement tonight thanks for all of your likes appreciate that i can see so many people are watching right now you guys must have enjoyed it so it's certainly because of the debaters so click on at least your favorite debater click on their link check out their stuff but i encourage you to check out more than one and even i know this sounds crazy out there folks because i know that sometimes it gets fiery but even consider checking out the debaters that you disagreed with in addition because hey i mean you at least get to hear the other side that's important being able to give a charitable strong strong representation by truly understanding the other side that's important in terms of intellectual growth and maturity so highly encourage you to do that that includes at the podcast as i mentioned any last points though from you guys before we do wrap up much respect to the opposing side you guys did you know great job defending your stance and andy i think you did a great job too as well and congratulations on 100 000 self-chance thanks uh yeah thanks uh yeah thanks for the debate thanks andy thanks nathan um and always good to see you nathan over on my channel in the chat and stuff um yeah i would i would just add especially to andy um to explore uh or maybe maybe rewatch because this comes up more and more in these vegan debates the distinction of how do you determine reactivity to thoughtful mindful experiences with animals but that also assumes we've established where animals start and and which you've you've uh conceded that that can be blurry too and i think that's a it is an essential part of arguing not eating animals because you have to determine what an animal is and then you have to determine um what is it about an animal that's similar or like a human that we we honor it the same way and so that's an invitation you got it and with that last housekeeping stuff like i said guess our link to the description if you haven't yet hit that subscribe button as you can see at the bottom right we're excited for this upcoming debate daniel gigi2 and mike jones from inspiring philosophy will collide you don't want to miss debates like those so do hit that subscribe button and with that one last thank you it's been a true pleasure andy nathan made by jim bob and posh thanks for being with us tonight i'll be back in a moment folks so stick around for that post credit scene and i'll let you know about other upcoming debates be back in just a second ladies and gentlemen want to say thanks so much for being with us tonight hope you enjoyed that that was an amazing debate for real that was so good i loved that it was deep it was very insightful like cover a range of interesting topics that was awesome so want to say huge thanks to our guests seriously they are the lifeblood of this show they make this awesome we love modern day debate but we've got to give credit where it's due i mean the debaters are the lifeblood of the channel there's no doubt about it and want to say thanks for all of your support out there as well as the omega word he says so nathan's position is i can't i don't want to read it without nathan here to defend himself but i appreciate your super chat theo as well as that last one i think i missed one also from uh thanks for your last super chat enslaved by truth playfully uh jabbing uh made by jim bob so we appreciate you folks i gotta tell you some of the reasons we appreciate you because they're for real like it really does mean a lot there's so many ways that you guys help this channel and we are excited uh it is a it's a really cool thing that we're we're thankful not because we're all about numbers like it's not like oh wow big numbers it's not like that that would be cringe instead we are nonetheless unabashedly proudly happy to say yes we do want to grow on youtube not because we care about numbers or something like but because we care about providing a neutral platform where everybody can make their case on a level playing field that's important to us we believe that youtube and don't get me wrong there are other debate channels out there and i will say i gotta give them credit where it's due if they do a great job moderating fairly wish there are some out there and i'm like hey great that's good there are at the same time some channels out there that the moderators you know clearly take sides and they jump into the debate and it's like how is this very meaningful if your side is more persuasive it's almost as if the refs in a football game if the refs were clearly favoring a team and let's say he was even found out like in rare cases it's really rare but in rare cases where like sometimes this may be found out that the refs actually were legitimately like biased in favor of a team is that if you found that out it's like uh this doesn't seem like an actual kind of win in terms of persuasiveness in terms of your side if the moderators jumping into the debate no no no no no youtube deserves a better class of debate channel and we're going to give it to him we are very thrilled and excited and thankful you guys you have helped us get to this point of 90 000 subscribers just a couple of days ago we hit that milestone and it's amazing because it's seriously i'm not i'm not blowing smoke up your butts hear me out we have on this channel each month 2300 shares on average in other words you see that share button below the screen here on youtube that button gets clicked 2300 times and presumably is shared you know maybe somebody clicks it and then forgets to actually share it or something like that but probably the vast majority of time like people actually share it so let's say 2000 or so times per month thousands per month that helps us grow immensely so i want to encourage you if you haven't and you let's say you know of a person or group or a facebook page or a group online whatever it is that likes this topic or debates on this topic or debates period hey consider it maybe you don't share this debate with them as that really does help us grow a ton seriously it really it's just the old-fashioned word of mouth just recommendations by people say hey this is a cool channel like this is like they try to give everybody a fair shot they want everybody to feel welcome which is true we hope you feel welcome whether you're vegan non-vegan you name it one of the many creatures that many strange creatures in between we're glad that you were here and i've got to tell you though it really makes a difference because you might be like james like come on like it's not you know it doesn't really make that much of a difference you're just saying that no no i'm not just saying that in fact if you take 2300 and you divide it up by 30 days that's about 79.6 shares per day per day that's three per hour which means we've been doing this debate for about three hours so in other words during this debate not counting this debate this or it might it might actually include but during this debate alone this channel modern day debate or one of its debates has been shared nine times at least in fact it's actually using standard rounding rules would be 10 times just during this debate that helps a ton because for me if i go out and share it places people say well like yeah james like you you're like spamming us with the the site that you created but if you're sharing with somebody and you're like hey like i i actually like legitimately enjoy this i just found it i'm not like a person that like started or anything that really means a lot where it's got a lot of credibility but like i said if i do it they're like james look of course you'd say it's great you're the one that started the channel so i want to say we do appreciate all of your support though and that really does like that's a really practical example of how for real you guys have gotten us where we are and we just appreciate all of your support snap trap says i just shared it right now to my discord channel thanks snap trap seriously that really does mean a lot so it really does is the old fashioned word of mouth it works it really does size one half says 90 000 rocks gonna hit that 100 000 soon thanks bob appreciate that support we're excited about that we have got big plans for the future we are always snap trap says i might want to jump into the debate ring snap trap i'm at modern day debate at gmail.com so that's no spaces no hyphens just modern day debate the name of the channel so if you ever forget you can just look at the channel at gmail.com and i've got to tell you my dear friends we are constantly refining and trying to see how we can improve this channel as we believe it has so much potential we are just getting started this is only the beginning of our story my dear friends we believe that there are going to be big things happening here we have strived to grow in terms of what we put out in terms of content namely finding topics that people find more engaging we have strived to grow in the sense that we've upped our audio quality so for example the blue yeti here we have strived to grow in terms of how well we you could say structure organize the debate so that it's like okay that format seems to work well and you know if things go off the rails then we usually say hey let's break it into two-minute segments that's kind of like our standard convention now we are going to continue to do that kind of adaptation that kind of refining or training or pursuit of excellence so that we continue to grow as a channel because we want to put out the best channel possible thanks for your membership support i appreciate that mina welcome to extra juicy thanks mina seriously your your support means more than you know seriously we're excited about the future there are a lot of big things happening in fact at the bottom right of your screen that debate between daniel haki kachu are one of the stronger muslim debaters i think that there are today in the english-speaking world that i'm aware of and mike jones one of the strongest debaters from the christian side that i'm aware of they will be colliding not just on modern day debate but at our main flagship conference debate con it's going to be huge folks that's coming up this april we're virtually certain that it's going to be april probably the 22nd so we're excited about that we've got a lot of big stuff coming up jesus is king thanks for coming by hope you're doing well all over davis i see you there in the old live chat and ova niece might am i pronouncing it right let me know hope you're doing well we're glad you're here crashes crashes thanks for coming by glad that you were with us troll good to see you in the live chat thanks for being with us as well truth is criminal glad that you made it nick garn arrow am i saying it right let me know glad you're with us mo bash good to see you as well as the 40 year old vegan glad to have you back carinthians 322 things are coming by says great show stay healthy thanks for that we appreciate that and bows nose glad you came by appreciate that as well as living room speaker is good to see you again a regular here leon henderson good to see you as well as k truther glad that you're with us as well my dear friends we're excited we want to say thanks for all your support i'm going to go in just a minute because i got to get to bed at an earlier time from now on because last night i got to sleep pretty late i've got to i've got to get into a better routine snap trap says amy consideration for a transhumanism debate that's a possibility that may work i got to see if amy would be interested but i can certainly ask and we can go from there so shoot me an email and then toto lino good to see you thanks for coming by says you've got a lucky tattoo james may bring you millions of subs thanks for that i appreciate that support thanks for your kind words timid vp southwick glad to have you here says we are glad to have you here my dear friend tsunami good to see you there in the old live chat thanks for being with us dj batman thanks for coming by glad that you were with us but yeah you guys i'm excited we're thankful for you guys you make this fun i love you guys i love doing this like this channel is so fun i wish i had more time to do this more often in terms of like putting more time toward it right now you could basically say i am extra burdened just because i have this doctorate once i'm done with this doctorate program which is less than a year lord willing that's the plan i'm going to have way more time to put in a modern day of eight which is really exciting so we are pumped about that let's see timid vp southwick says coward i don't know i think that's for me is it because i didn't read uh your your chat the reason the only reason is just because we're a non-partisan channel and so for me i try to if if it's somebody taking a position i try to not read it that's why i didn't even for example i didn't even read the super chat that was criticizing nathan because i was like well if nathan's not here to defend himself we try to have it where like the speakers are able to kind of defend their themselves or make their case or whatever it is so gross patate says don't forget me thanks for coming by gross patate we hope you're doing well shameless crawford christ lives and reigns in heaven glad that you came by we hope that you're doing well we'll want to say thanks you guys seriously thanks for your support we're excited about the future it means a lot appreciate it like you guys have been a flexible flexible crew as oftentimes we start late things like that we appreciate that you guys are kind of like you know not a big deal like i'm chill we appreciate you guys are a flexible fun crowd and you guys have supported us even though you've seen us you know a lot of you guys have been with us for a long time and you've been like oh man i think you know like clearly you know modern day debate made a mistake there or whatever it is but so many of you guys have been so gracious and merciful and you're just like hey you know what i'm sticking with them and thanks for sticking with us this whole time you remember like in our second year because now we're in like our fifth year i think isn't that crazy yeah i think this is our fifth year of doing it it's we've started our fifth year is in our second year i think it was it may be like our yeah it was actually mostly our first year but i think it even bled into the second year a little bit oh timothy p southwick says no i was talking to living room speakers okay gotcha i don't know what's going on between you guys but i gotta say in our second year we had the word we had audio problems that were so bad and like oh i feel so bad for the guests because like sometimes the guests would get through like half their opening statement and then it'd be like oh gosh i can't believe it i have to ask you can you do that again because we the audio wasn't working it was so embarrassing but we've made it past that we've learned a lot and so i want to say thank you guys for your support i love you guys seriously you guys make this fun thanks for sticking with us thanks for being loyal we appreciate you guys love you guys we'll see you at the next debate we've got it i told you i'd give you the upcoming baits so let me tell you what's coming up so if you haven't seen it on the home page for modern day debate on our youtube channel we have live debates coming up this week we in particular have on tuesday creation versus evolution that's just the classic topic we haven't had that in kind of a while it's been maybe a month but that's a fun topic and then then on thursday the topic of our men not appreciated or you could say our men ignored slash unappreciated that'll be on thursday so that'll be another juicy topic that'll be a good one and then on friday we have is christianity rational that's going to be a big one we're excited about that and then saturday so we have like a lot this week this is a four debate week we have flat we have flatter earth with i think if i're no no that's it's heliocentrism whether or not the sun or the earth is the center of the solar system so pretty juicy and piebald good to have you there we are glad that you were here it says did anyone mention acts 10 in this debate surprisingly no they didn't because i actually almost brought it up myself because i just thought i was like oh this would be interesting to hear people's thoughts on and uh but yeah so be the change says much love james thanks for that appreciate that nathan and living room speaker says thanks for another great debate always fun thanks so much for your your support your encouragement means more than you know and thanks for your kind words mina appreciate that says james is a good egg niki gives me the creeps to be honest who's niki like in live chat well you'll you'll learn to love you'll niki will grow on you if that's the niki you mean i'm trying to think are any of our moderators kaz kaz he's not a niki but posh or no no josh says amazing thanks for your support appreciate that josh it means a lot but yeah thanks for all of your guys's support all over davis glad to have you here thanks all my dear friends we love you guys you guys make this awesome i love you guys seriously it's fun we'll see you at those next debates as we like i said we have four coming up in the next week it's gonna be a lively one thanks everybody love you guys and we'll see you at those next debates amazing


It's a Jacob. It's a Jacob. How are you doing? How's your day been lad doing good? Doing good. I hope you're doing well in this your first time chat feel like she show do you think? What do you think are the? What do you think are the people giving the orders? Who do you think that are the people giving the orders? If they can order around the most powerful people in the world billionaires like Musk Then who are they and what do you think gives them such an ability first of all? I don't think Ellen Musk is one of the most powerful people in the world right people said that about Steve Jobs one of the most powerful people in the world you know got taken out right either by his lack of understanding of science or got taken out right Something a cancer whatever was a pancreatic or no pancreatic things bad But he had a cancer that easily operable you could live an extended period of time he decided to Drink green juice or something right? Was how powerful was it right they have lots of money right but power is a scale right So for example me and you that have access to the internet Can watch things live broadcast live have a certain amount of money have tea have I can I'm eating cashews Oh, I can afford to eat cashews. So that to some people is considered to be a certain amount of wealth certain amount of power Right, but it's a scale system to others. It's not so Ellen Musk is just on a scale Right, but he was groomed since he was young from one understand his father was South Africa one of the oligarchs there Like all these people how many of these people are there? That have this type of power If you call them power or money or wealth or influence, how many of them came from nothing All right, not many if any Really I can't recall anyone that has acquired a certain amount of prestige That has come from nothing They're Families dynasties that bring room their own little Seedling right and say this is the role you're going to play Yeah, who are they? I don't know federal reserve board members people that we don't know the names of who's in Antarctica Like there are people That we don't know who the players are we don't know we just know their agenda and their agenda is to enslave humanity And the story right is they're globalists and what is their agenda? They want to have to globe the whole world right? That's what they're globalist They want the globe they everything in it, right?  It goes the world and everything in it Right, that's what they want the world and everything in it That's includes you and me right well, I think I got something to say about that