You look you look great congratulations. I'm so excited. Well, it's kind of a surreal experience All right cat is out, so we have to get the cat back. I'll get the cat Might be tricky. Hey pickles. I think he'd actually like to be out on the patio with us You know, he's got his outfit on right. He's got a sexido on he does An hour to go before you get your Nobel Prize in metal. How are you feeling? I'm I'm nervous I'm incredibly excited and it hasn't really hit me. It just feels a bit unreal Here we are on my patio in Berkeley and My husband Jamie Kate said to me this morning Well, this is probably the first and maybe last time in the history of the Nobel that the metal will be given at our house I'm gonna call my sister Hi How are you? I'm good. We're setting up here. So my sister is on FaceTime from Manhattan there. I'm gonna show you the table Where they actually have the prize. Can you can you see it? Emmanuel and I are just you know, we're thrilled and we're delighted to be the first two women to receive the prize in chemistry Without a man They can start to picture themselves doing this something and that's what we want Jennifer Gaudner The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences has decided to award you the 2020 Nobel Prize in chemistry to you for the development of a method for genome editing It is a great honor to convey to you my warmest Congratulations and ask you to receive the Nobel Prize Really thrilled and delighted to be sharing this award this prize with Emmanuel Sharpentier my Friend colleague collaborator on the CRISPR-Cas9 work that we did together. I want to thank Everyone here and in particular. I want to thank my family my husband Jamie Kate my son Andy Kate My sisters Ellen Doudna who's here and and Sarah Doudna who's here on FaceTime From New York. It's wonderful to have both of you here Our parents are no longer living but if they were and I feel they're here in spirit They would be thrilled today and I just want to again thank everyone that's here It's really so wonderful to be sharing this moment with all of you. Thank you So this is just an extra bonus the medal you cannot wear but these you can eat Those are the very famous Nobel gold coins Namely chocolate Which are always on the tables at the Nobel banquet and we are so grateful for you to Receive us here today. It's been an honor And this is the medal and it's it's absolutely stunning. It's not chocolate, right? It's actually engraved it has my name and it has the year as well Wow, so I'm opening the diploma and It's all in Swedish of course, but it says that I've received the Nobel Prize Thank you again, I'm really grateful. This is such a special special event for me I just Yeah, and thank you of course to the Nobel committee and you know for all of the work that you guys I know you guys have had to do a huge amount of work this year probably more than usual to Adjust to the circumstances so very grateful for that as well


Okay, okay, we're back now. An online talk from Victor Rovot. Oh, I forgot. Victor, the last time you were here, how to pronounce your name. I'm very sorry about that. We're thinking material agency, bioelectricity as a model of causation for the life science. You have the floor, Victor. Yes, thank you very much. I hope that I can talk a little bit with this viewer up here. So, yeah, I just wanted to thank you, Axon, for making it possible for me to present this wonderful workshop without you. Even though I wasn't able to actually come to Leverman as it is now. So I'm really excited to talk to you about this. And this is, so, I wanted to invite a little bit of context about this work, because it's a joint work, very much in progress, that we began to think about back in 2021 after the diversity intelligence summary institute and the project that we started there through beyond the summer school, and we just continued with that. And the overall aim of that project is actually to start reviewing materials as it is appearing in philosophy, especially philosophy of mind, but also philosophy of biology. And the point that we're trying to make in this project is that there are insights nowadays from empirical sciences, such as condensed and active matter physics, basal condition, and software bodies, which very much reshape how matter is understood in the sciences, that philosophy supposedly draws a work where we're talking about materialism. And in fact, we think that the notion of matter and the notions of materialism in philosophy have been lacking behind those changes in the empirical sciences. So there's a couple of points. The biggest point that we see are the following three. So first of all, condensed and active matter physics has provided a bunch of studies which indicate that there is an inherent activity, or perhaps even called directedness, in simple non-biological material systems. And here I think both, for example, the studies that Martin Hansen did with oil droplets that he had that were able to solve meses. So he actually got oil droplets navigating meses. And another example, it comes from the basal conditions of the research on very basic forms of cognitive-like behaviors in organisms that are in a single cell form, and also very simple multicellular organisms where we actually observe complex activities which we wouldn't turn cognitive if they were exhibited by more standard organisms. And here, for example, it comes from the word that is being done on the slime mold. I can't remember the, I forgot to change the name, but it's a large slime mold, also known as the blob. It's, for example, in Paris too. And one of the most famous experiments that I've shown what kind of cognitive-like abilities this kind of system has had the slime mold to solve the TokyoMap problem where the slime mold was able to create optimal connections between different food sources, finding the optimal solution to the TokyoMap problem. Finally, soft robotics, especially in the domain of morphological communication has been showing how non-standard substrates can be increasingly used in an engineering way for information processing. And we believe this kind of also shifts the way we should be thinking about information processing in biological and cognitive-like systems or cognitive systems in the system. So, yes, this is the overall plan for my talk today. I want to begin, especially after the previous talk because I will touch upon some similar topics as I kind of presented this, but I would preface this with saying that I didn't have very metaphysical views. What I want to achieve with this talk is to show how research in biological research in biology shows that biological processing is a very messy, very weird process and that our political notions have to get up with this kind of empirical evidence that comes through. So to kind of throw a benzyme on those political notions that can be a little bit strong, I think, but I hope not too much. I'm going to introduce the just basic view of reductive materialism, the standard reductive materialism as a basis for our approach. Then I will move forward to the main example that I will be throwing up on in the remainder of the talk, maybe the example of bioelectricity in developmental and region-regional morphogenesis. And then I will point out those two weird issues that appear in this kind of system. So first, downward organization, most specifically circular organizations of the interplay, mid-downward and bottom-up organization. Then I will say a little bit about the long log of causes and I will explain more of what I mean by that. And then I will try to throw this together in this emerging picture that comes from this kind of research. So to begin with, this kind of basic view that we think is still kind of, it's still very much present in philosophy, especially in philosophy of mind-watering about reduction. It's kind of just a basic view and it's embedded in the standard capacity of mechanisms as Jessica recently argued in her great book, The Restless Fall, where she showed that there are kind of multiple notions of mechanisms, our current views are embedded in this passive view where entities in the physical world are seeing us as a passive perspective and not able to perform any action on their own. They have to make things reasonable. And this reactive materialism can be stated in this form. So the statement is that all biology could be in principle whether we are limited, whether our human limited cognitive resources allow us that part of this is a different issue. But in principle, biology could be explained in terms of particle physics. So the fundamental particles, whatever they are and their interactions and that there's nothing else that is actually there in physics. And this is something, something quite posthumously ideal, I would say, and it has been actually when we crystallized that that's why I say this is perhaps a little bit too many but I hope not too much. And I will say a little bit about those criticisms in a second. But also, it is still very much present that here I won't quote Samuel Ocasio on the sentiment that there is perhaps a sense in which the developmental explanation is more because of the fundamental or it is an explanation from the bottom up and the developmental explanation where he's discussing the earlier sovereign distinction between developmental and selectional explanations and the causality of the problems with those types of explanations. And he's precisely saying that it's kind of like both of us simpler things to explain more complex things and causing more complex things. So when we explain the processes that are more complex, we have to actually explain the causality of the slower, simpler level that makes this higher level up and he claims that there is something more fundamental about this kind of relationships. So I think even though there has been criticism this sentiment is still present in different forms. And as I said if those criticisms come from two main points I would say and Green and Butterman here have developed a framework by showing that this ideal is not in fact applied in any physics so in biology we usually think that this is the site especially in space biology because that's how physics works but Green and Butterman have condensed the matter of physics specifically how we've done in physics maybe not impossible in physics but in many other areas of physics this ideal is not meant we have multi-scale modelling where both bottom up and top down relationships come into play. It's also visible in the right active modelling system so what they put this picture into the claim that there is something like an eternity of scales and this claim says that there is a difference in how physics operates at different sites and temporal scales so when we when we are thinking about causation specifically but in general physical processes operating on the medium scale that we are most accustomed to where our conscious lives happen so to say the kind of physical relationships that we have served here are going to be distinct from the physical relationships that are that we can observe on much lower scale level and this lower scale level is already there at the certain lower level the process is happening with itself are already on the smaller level where this kind of our middle scale physics doesn't actually apply that well or it doesn't transfer easily the right thing from those different scales. So to kind of substitute this point a little bit I want to quote a liking but I want to put this a little bit a liking quote from Guthrie Smith because I think it captures this idea on quite a different scale as quite that word is talking about the settlement of cells and the behavior of the physical operations happening on the level of cells in that context and at that scale matter it takes different key from how it behaves elsewhere. In a phrase the YouTube popcorn would remind is a molecular storm there is an anything spontaneous motion that does not need to be powered by anything external larger molecules rearrange them and everything is bombarded by larger molecules. Electrical charge also plays an immediate role through ions dissolved in the water and charged regions of larger molecules. The word is by mycing tendencies in this thought matching quantum walks in useful direction. So towards the end I want to quote here where the reverse is kind of like different thinking and multiplication that we have to have in mind when we are looking at the cellular scale I want to talk a little bit about the earlier part of the description especially for example on this being bombarded by larger molecules so our standard experience of water is that when we move through water perhaps it is a little bit more difficult than moving through the air we feel that the water is more viscous and air so obviously it's going to mean putting out more resistance when we move through it but it's okay we can still do that. However when you're looking at the level of molecules that are within cells what we have to realize is that water molecules are quite large on that scale so they have smaller molecules, quantum proteins and other molecules that are crucial crucial for the operation of cells just by being immersed in this kind of water environment it's actually they experience, so to say, so they are met with completely different forces than we usually ask to see with water so this kind of environment is very different from our middle scale experience, what we usually think about this is on the middle scale we're trying to say that okay so moving on we want to say a little bit about bioelectricity because one of the things that the administration points out in his description is the role of electrical charge at the level of cells and this has to be the testing and all the controversies surrounding the research of bioelectricity that dates back to the 19th century in the world of Calvary that I have included in the title slide and people having it in some parts very that's been accurately a little bit hard to say that to be a little bit conscious of the risks that come with this work and in result we had this kind of like dominance of biochemistry throughout the 20th century and this dominance have been I think that one of the reasons that this dominance of biochemistry of genetics has been in part because of this reductive ideal of explanation because it translates very well to this reductive ideal so we've been very much trying to say never been in terms of genetics throughout the 20th century however this bioelectric research has continued and in recent years it's started to bring about more evidence that perhaps not every biological process can be spread through genetics and not that genes are not all there is to explain biological process and after 40 years this research has been the lead of Calvary University led by Michael Levin and I want to refer to the particular experiment very I think because it's very well and it features this kind of relationship that bioelectricity allows us to cut so they have conducted a set of experiments on planaria, little worlds that are a couple of millimeters long and planaria are a very interesting system because they have astounding regimental capabilities so basically you can slice them to very thin slices, many thin slices and each slice will regenerate a full war after some time so I think this is actually the main way that referees I think they have some ability to sexually reproduce but mostly they reproduce just by being injured so whenever the world is injured it's split towards regenerate and towards continued living so they have this very weird lifestyle because of that but it also makes them a training system to study the blood network and regenerative morphogenesis so the processes of organisms that organisms use to achieve a particular shape and one of the study that has conducted was to slice those worlds into three parts and they kept the middle parts to just the front without the head and the tail because normally they had the head and the tail and that's as simple as we can see on this picture I don't know if you can see my mouse but here perhaps it makes a point here now so here you have the head here you have the tail and they had this little slice and the free is just the middle part of the trunk and they then embedded in a bunch of chemicals for a short period of time that have influenced the expression of ion channels in this house and by that they modified the bio-electrical pattern so the pattern of communication between cells they removed them from chemicals and placed them in the normal environment so just in water because they live in water and what happened proved this editing they were able to induce non-standard morphology of these raw organisms without any genetic or any other surgical changes they were able to grow two-handed work and in other experiments they were able to grow four-headed work so it's kind of like cross-shaped like work which have also on the sides of the trunk additional heads so very weird morphologies which are not usually observed in nature perhaps even not at all observed in nature but this is only a part of it because it would happen so once you have these two-headed work you can actually slice it again in the three parts keep just the middle part just in trunk and place them again in plain water without any further manipulation so you do manipulate the bio-electrical pattern at the first step but you don't change the genetic makeup you don't change anything else and then at the second division it actually regenerates two-headed again and this continues this kind of process continues over multiple same generations of this kind of surgical procedure where you just cut them and make the trauma regenerate and without further intervention it is able to regenerate the heads so what it shows is that there is this kind of bio-electrical pattern it has a great role that it plays in in morphogenesis morphogenesis in this case and as I try to underscore this happens about any kind of genetic modification in development so I hope that this is more or less clear I will now move on to them what kind of consequences I think are drawn from this for the future of bio-electrical compensation so the first consequence is that this is the complex interplay between top-down and bottom-up causality that is a play in morphogenesis perhaps in biology or general because in terms of top-down we have this pattern, the bio-electrical pattern that determines the actions of the individual cells and this pattern as it's shown here I can draw again we had intervention on the level of that pattern so we have this kind of higher level of intervention and we had also particular results so if we abide this kind of intervention we still should conclude from that that we actually have this kind of higher level of organization influencing what happens at the lower level influences how the cells divide and how the cells choose particular type of the cell that they will be like of this organization because of the difference between the head and the tail so yes, we had this kind of top-down process but at the same time we have also that bottom-up process because this bio-electrical pattern depends on the bio-electrical activity of the individual cells obviously it depends on what kind of signals, what kind of ions they send out and this in turn depends on this kind of what kind of ion channels they have so I would take this to mean that there is not just bottom-up and not just top-down but rather there is this kind of like mutually codependent relationship between the lower level and the higher level of organization in this case and I want to repair also here in this moment by Dennis Noble from his 2012 paper where he's been claiming that in part this kind of the directional result is from the above biological systems and he shows up with this diagram where in the middle we have this standard view of bottom-up causation from genes from products cells all the way out of all of this and this standard view but at the same time he recognizes that there are top-down influences which skip level will go from level to another level and influence the behavior of the lower levels and that can cause the efficacy efficacious so he claims that this kind of top-down and bottom-up interface more present throughout biological systems and as he has also mentioned at the end of this talk the top-down causation is that it's weird that people have been trying to avoid accepting its existence however they're having a chance to provide a way to naturalize this kind of top-down causation and one, and I think very much well applicable in this case when doing that comes from through the notion of constraint that had been, I think, originally advanced in this context by Paul Imagine his culture is famous to have paper but I also want to draw on Terebin Decum's arguments in that regard so constraints are for example we can think of constraints as the initial conditions but also the boundary conditions of a particular system by a particular process and they have two functions so first of all they restrict state space trajectories so they make the system they reduce how many trajectories in the state space the system can take because they make some of them unlikely or impossible at all but at the same time they have this innovative productive function because by restricting state space they enable particular trajectories which otherwise could have been unlikely and make the system bias the system towards and here we can know the relation physical or e-controls and he's example comes from from question so we can think of an engine so what happens in an engine is that we have basically either gasoline or other people explode and this explosion happens in an unrestricted space it could just explode at this way however when it happens in a restricted space of an engine this explosion is able to empower it just because there are constraints on how the energy is being released and this can transfer the energy in this form and again this goes back to the description that from Guthrie Smith where we see again that this thinking about constraints seems to be because of this how constraints can bias the system towards particular state-based trajectories that it seems to be well suited for this level of other cells and we can draw more complexity what we think about is the directional causality in terms of constraining relations and this shows that scales temporal and size scales are not causally consuming the activities that one scale can and do in other scales but we don't determine so there is this very complex interplay of how much causality comes from which level and this thinking about mutually constraining relations allows us to capture them and from that we can throw out this strong imagine but I'm not an expert enough I'm not sure how much I agree to speak out so we'll pull a treatment you will have to wait for his doctoral thesis actually where he's putting a full treatment of this in relation to emergence and I want to use the remainder of my time to turn to slightly different to the second weird thing that comes out of the picture of causality in the biological system and I have turned to normal causes because I don't want to argue for any kind of a physical action out of distance so I don't think it starts from however I think there is this kind of level of interplay between negation and direct impact of particular events which are which are disconnected in terms of space and perhaps even from scale or temporarily disconnected biological systems that makes us forces us to consider this kind of normal quality in a weaker sense and one thing is is that and this can be seen in this kind of bi-electrical example that I think I'm showing you for there is the difficulty of tracking relationships we don't know what impacts what and one example is in the case of doubtful organization there is the average of relation to doubtful organization however even on a single scale there is still the difficulty of tracking which cell influence is weak because we have this kind of like very complex picture where everything seems to be influencing everything else and in this kind of like very strongly connected network of this it's difficult to track individual events and see how they how they are how they are constantly efficacious and one of the things that I think it makes it visible is this kind of stop problem what I call the stop problem so one of the biggest difficulties for any view of normal genesis is the question of how does how does the process know when to stop so how individual what is the source of information for individual cells for them to know that the target shape of the organism has been achieved and this happens both in the rigid grid case that I've been discussing here but also in more standard than in all of our standard regenerative cases where we have this kind of like target anatomy that the organism is trying to achieve but how does it know that it has actually achieved that because no individual cell can have access to that type of information so this is a very difficult problem for biology and so not well understood how that happens but in lots of pro terms it could be said that there is this kind of again metaphysically and I'm saying this word without putting too much emphasis on them but just pointing out the difficulties that appear perhaps there is some kind of a cause of power of absence that is visible here or perhaps even are still doing their final causes until the moment it comes into play at this level or what we call alternatization and so yeah but it's very difficult to see what causes this process of stopping so this is why I'm saying for example of this difficult relationship and this kind of complex connected process is actually crucial for biology as some people might like that and that has biological individuality Victor could you conclude out of time okay so I just want to I have two minutes more so maybe I just yeah coordination is a prerequisite of individuality so this kind of interaction is what enables the audience to transfer from this level individual styles into it the level of the multicellular audience are acting as a biological individual and there is a bunch of problems that are related to this and I will skip to conclude perhaps because it's also very as I said it's a full working process so I'm more interested in pointing out difficulties now I don't have too many solutions at this point and I want to thank my viewers Questions, comments thank you are you able to hear me the microphone the microphone is stuck to the wall so if you go a bit closer to the wall that's the issue yeah I'm in the front of the room can you hear me if I stand here okay thank you very much for your talk so we've been talking obviously in this workshop we're talking a lot about causation and so I'm interested to know if I can to say more about inter-level causation especially thinking about the noble diagram and you raised the really interesting example of this mutual constraining relationship and how that's one suggestion for how to make inter-level causation go through but I'm wondering if there is an issue there where we all to separate relationships of constraint or explanations by constraint from explanations by causation so for instance the kinds of modal constraints that might be applied by the available state spaces are those causal explanations or should we think of those in the way that say like Mark Lang would call them sort of right modal or mathematical sort of constraints that aren't causally efficacious and so when you've got this sort of synchronic dependence between these two levels and one level is impacting the other level by constraining the trajectory, the possible trajectories in the state space are we oriented in thinking of that as a causal relationship that's my question for the noble diagram Thank you Thank you very much for this question I want to say that it is causally efficacious and now I'll try to explain I think behind it it's not a full argument yet but so drawing on the kind of interventionist view of this I would say that exactly this case of bioelectricity shows us and the specific experiments that I'm drawing on shows us that when we impact the level, the higher level because again we emerge the whole organism or part of the organism not individual cells so we cannot modify the bioelectric combination of the level of individual cells we modify the bioelectric part of us at all we don't have the tools yet to impact individual cells in this procedure so I think this war is saying that there is this kind of causal relationship from this higher level of the pattern of activity towards the activities at the lower level specifically how the individual cells divide how they choose the particular kind of that they develop into in the course of the process so I think there is this kind of link there obviously obviously you could argue that it is just this mathematical constraint or this kind of structural constraint because it is a little bit of that as to how this bioelectric project offers the kind of topological maybe or structural recipe of cells for the organism so you could try to argue that this is rather done and try to avoid the sign of any kind of causal I think it is without but I think that there is a lot more purchase just in terms of empirical progress that can be made with this stronger view Any other questions? I have one of course but that was just Victor I like your point that this reduction does not work in physics and the literature in philosophy of physics and in physics showing that it is obvious that there is no reduction in physics is gigantic just there is surely something to there is surely a problem of communication between physics and the other fields for the other fields to believe that something could be reducible to physics and I have to say that I appreciate the fact that you discussed it at the beginning but you could have filled your slides of reference all saying physics itself does not reduce to physics on the other hand I have as a comment it is probably the fact that philosophy of physics write really poorly and most of the time refuse to discuss with any philosophy of science outside physics that it is not known there is a the hot subjects in physics now it is effective theory which is by definition modellization that cannot be reducible so I think that another trajectory in this problem is that we have been inheriting a lot of things about this through philosophy of mind and it has been embedded in the business of physics or philosophy of physics from the 70s perhaps even from before philosophy of biology has been kind of like too much connected to this kind of thinking to be able to step aside and look at the broader field I actually have to say that it is difficult it is not like I can read the physical literature I can read some of the basic literature and some of the people there are smart enough to read physics and so I have still been kind of disconnected to yeah yeah this is perhaps on Simon's kind of comment there is also one of the historical literature on this and I would be careful about using that book by Jessica Riskin to make these kinds of things you are making because it falls from the mic so there is a lot of historical literature on this especially on the material reductions in question and I would caution you against using Jessica Riskin as you are looking at one of the classics which is called The Architecture of Matter which presents the nuanced picture of history of this despite the fact that it was like published in 68 and I am going to do the thing where I log a paper that I wrote in which you could read me as saying possibly that there are cases where physics reduces the biology but you will have to make your own choice actually I have been with Riskin on this but as I said it is a very well written book I am very convinced of you when you read it so we are out of time thank you very much Victor


Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering HPE Discover 2017, brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Okay, welcome back everyone. We're here live in Las Vegas for our exclusive three-day coverage from theCUBE, SiliconANGLE Media's flagship program. We go out to events and we extract the civil noise, talk to the smartest people we can find, CEOs, entrepreneurs, R&D lab managers, and of course, we're here at HPE Discover 2017. Our next two guests, Andrew Wheeler Fellow, VP Deputy Director, Hewlett Packard Labs, and President Nicker Fellow and VP, Chief Architect of HPE Labs, was on yesterday. Welcome back, welcome to theCUBE. Hewlett Packard Labs, well known, you guys doing great research. Meg Whitman, really staying with the focused message and one of the comments she mentioned at our press analyst meeting yesterday was, focusing on the labs. So I wanted to ask you, where's the range in the labs and in terms of what you guys, when does something go outside the lines, if you will? Yeah, good question. So if you think about Hewlett Packard Labs and really our charter or role within the company, we're really kind of tasked for looking at things that will disrupt our current business or look for kind of those new opportunities. So for us, we have something we call an innovation horizon. And it's like any other portfolio that you have where you've got maybe things that are more kind of near term, maybe one to three years out, things that are easily kind of transferred or the timing is right. And then we have kind of another bucket that says, well, maybe it's more of a three to five year kind of in that advanced development category where it needs a little more incubation, but it needs a little more time. And then we reserve probably a smaller pocket that's for more kind of pure research, things that are further out, higher risk. It's a bigger bet, but we do want to have kind of a complete portfolio of those. And over time throughout our history, we've got really success stories in all of those. So it's always finding kind of that right blend, but there's clearly a focus around the advanced development piece now that we've had a lot of things come from that research point. And really one of the kind of- You're looking for breakthroughs. I mean, that's what you're, some incremental improvement, simplify IT, electric stuff. But you guys still have your eyes on some breakthroughs. That's right. How do we differentiate what we're doing? So, but yeah, clearly, clearly looking for those breakthrough opportunities. And one of the things that's come up really big in this show is the security and chip thing was pretty hot, very hot. And the actually Wikibon's public, true public account report that they put out sizing up on-prem, the cloud market, which is- True private cloud. True private cloud, I'm sorry. And that's not including hybrids, a $265 billion dam. But the notable thing I want to get your thoughts on is the point Dave pushed was over 10 years, $150 billion is going to shift out of IT on-premise into other differentiated services. Out of labor. Out of IT labor. Out of labor. So this, and I asked him what that means, as the analyst said, that means it's going to shift to vendor R&D, meaning the suppliers have to do more work so that the customers don't have to do the R&D, which we see a lot in cloud where there's a lot of R&D going on. That's your job. So you guys are HP Labs. What's happening in that R&D area that's going to offload that labor so they can move to some other high-yield tasks? Sure. Take first? Go ahead, take a step at it. You know, when we've been looking at some of the concepts we had in the memory-driven computing research and advanced development program, the machine program, you know, one of the things that was the kickoff for me back in 2003, we looked at what we had in the Unix market. We had advanced virtualization technologies. We had great management of resource technologies. We had memory fabric technologies, but they're all kind of proprietary. But still, it got us thinking, and back then we were saying, how does RISC Unix compete with industry standard servers? This new methodology, new wave, exciting, changing cost structures. And for us, it was a chance to explore those ideas and understand how they would affect our maintaining the kind of rich set of customer experiences, mission-criticality, security, all of these elements. And it's kind of funny that we're sort of coming back to the future again. And we're saying, okay, we have this move. We want to see these things happen on the cloud. And we're seeing those same technologies, the composable infrastructure we have in Synergy, and looking forward to see the research we've done on the machine advanced development program, and how will that intersect hardware composability, the converged infrastructure, so that you can actually have that shift, those technologies coming in, taking on more of that burden to allow you freedom of choice. So you can make sure that you end up with that right mix, the right part on the full public cloud, the right mix on a full private cloud, the right mix on that intelligent edge, but still having the ability to have all of those great software development methodologies, that agile methodology. The only thing the kids know how to do out of school is open source and agile now. So you want to make sure that you can embrace that, and make sure regardless of where the right spot is for a particular application in your entire enterprise portfolio, that you have this common set of experiences and tools, and some of the research and development we're doing will enable us to drive that into that existing conventional enterprise market, as well as this intelligent edge, making a continuum, a continuum from the core to the intelligent edge, and something that modern computer science graduates will find completely comfortable. And the one attracting them is going to be the key. I think the edge is kind of intoxicating if you think about all the possibilities that are out there, in terms of what, just from a business model disruption, also technology. I mean, wearables are edge, Brainiam plans in the future will be edge, the singularities here as Rakers, while we say, I mean, but this is the truth, this is what's happened, this is real right now. Oh, absolutely, we think of all that data, and right now we're just scratching the surface. I remember it was 1994, the first time I fired up a web server inside of my development team, so I could begin sending out design information on prototype products inside of HP, and it was a novelty. It was like, what is that thing you just sent me an email, w, w, whatever, and suddenly we went from, like almost overnight, from a novelty to a business necessity, to then it transformed the way that we created applications for the enterprise. But since you brought it up, it's a historical trivia. HP Labs, you look like Labs had scientists who actually invented the web with Tim Bernsley. I think HTML founder was an HP Labs scientist. It's a pretty notable trivia, a lot of people don't know that, so congratulations. And so I look at just what you're saying there, and we see this new edge thing, it's going to be similarly transformative. Now today, it's a little genomic-y, perhaps it's sort of scratching the surface, it's taking security, and it can be problematic at times, but that will transform because there is so much possibility for economic transformation. Right now, almost all of that data on the edge is thrown away. If you, the first person who understands, okay, I'm going to get 1% more of that data and turn it into real-time intelligence, real-time action, that will unmake industries, and it will remake new industries. This is the applied research vision, and you got to apply R&D to the problem. Correct. That's what he's getting at, but you also got to think differently, you got to bring in talent, the young guns. How are you guys bringing in the young guns? What's the honeypot? Well, I think for us, the sell for us, obviously, is just the tradition of Hewlett-Packer to begin with, right? So we have recognition of that level, and it's not just Hewlett-Packard Labs as well, it's just R&D in general, right? Kind of the DNA being an engineering company. So, but it's, I think it is creating kind of these opportunities, and whether it's internship programs, just the various things that we're doing, whether it's enterprise-related, high-performance computing, I think this edge opportunity is a really interesting one, is a bridge because if you think about all the things that we hear about in the enterprise in terms of, oh, I need this deep analytics capability, or even a lot of the in-memory things that we're talking about, real-time response, driving information, right? All of that needs to happen at the edge as well for various opportunities. So it's got a lot of the young graduates excited. We host hundreds of interns every year, and it's really exciting to see kind of the ideas they come in with, and they're all excited to work in this space. So Kirk, you have your machine button. You got it.  I got the, yeah, the Labs logo. The Labs. I got the machine logo. So, when I first entered, you talked about in the early 1980s, when I first got into the business, I remember Gene Amdahl, the best I.O. is no I.O. Yeah, that's right. We're here again with this sort of memory semantics centric computing. So, in terms of the three that Andrew laid out, the three types of sort of projects you guys pursue, where does the machine fit? Is it sort of in all three? Or maybe you could talk about that a little bit. I think it is. So we see those technologies that over the last three years we have brought so much new, and it was the critical thing about this is, I think it's also sort of the prototyping of the overall approach, our lean-in approach here, is that it wasn't just researchers, right? Those 500 people who have made that 160 terabyte monster machine possible weren't just from labs. It was engineering teams from across Shield Packard and Enterprise. It was our supply chain team. It was our services team telling us how these things fit together for real. Now, we've had incredible technology experiences, incredible technologist experiences, and what we're seeing is that we have intercepts on conventional platforms, whether it's the photonics, the persistent memories. Those will make our existing DCIG and SDCG products better almost immediately. But then we also have these whole cloth applications, and as we take all of our learnings, drive them into open source software, drive them into the Gen Z consortium, and we'll see probably 18, 24 months from now some of those first optimized silicon designs pop out of that ecosystem, then we'll be right there to assemble those again into conventional systems as well as more expansive exascale computing, intelligent edge with large persistent memories and application-specific processing as that next generation of gateways. I think we can see these intercept points at every category Andrew talked about. Well, and another good point there that kind of magnifies the model we were talking about had, you know, if we were sitting here five years ago, we would be talking about things like photonics and non-volta memory as being those big R projects, right, those higher risk, longer term things, but right, as those mature, we make more progress, the innovation happens, right, it gets pulled into that shorter timeframe that becomes advanced. And Meg has talked about that, wanting to get more productivity out of the labs, and she's also pointed out you guys have spent more on R&D in the last several years, but even as we talked about the other day, you want to see a little bit more D and keep the R going. So my question is, when you get to that point of being able to support DCIG, is it a handoff, are you guys intimately involved when you're making decisions about, okay, so Memrester for example, okay, this is great, that's still in the R phase, then you bring it in, but now we've got to commercialize this, and you've got 3D NAND coming out, and okay, let's use that, that fits into our framework.  It's very, we get very involved, so it's at the point where when we think we have something that, hey, we think, you know, maybe this could get into a product, or let's see if there's a good intercept here, we work jointly at that point, right, it's lab engineers, it's the product managers out of the group, engineers out of the business group, they essentially work collectively then on getting it to that next step, so it's kind of just one big R&D effort at that point. And so specifically as it relates to the machine, where do you see in the next, you know, the near term, let's call near term next three years, or five years even, what do you see that looking like, is it this combination of, you know, memory with capacitors or, you know, flash extensions, what does that look like in terms of commercial terms that we can expect? So I really think the palette is pretty broad here, that I can see these going into existing, existing rack and tower products to allow them to have memory that's composable down and compute that's composable down to the individual module level, to be able to take that facility to have just the right resources applied at just the right time with that API that we have in one view, extend down to composing the hardware itself. I think we look at those edge line systems and want to have just the right kind of analytic capability, large, persistent memories at that edge so we can handle those zettabytes and zettabytes of data in full fidelity, analyzed at the edge, sending back that intelligence to the core, but also taking action at the edge in its timeframe that matters. I also see it coming out and being the basis of our exascale high performance computing. You know, when you want to have an exascale system that has all of the combined capacity of the top 500 systems today, but one 20th of their power, that is going to take rather novel technologies and everything we've been working on is exactly what's feeding that research and soon to be advanced development and then soon to be production and supply chain. Great. So the question I have is, obviously we saw some really awesome Gen 10 stuff here at this show. You guys are just seeing that, obviously you're on stage talking about a lot of the cool R&D, but really the reality is that's multiple years in the works with some of this root of trust, silicon technology that's pretty getting the show buzzed up. Everyone's psyched about it. DreamWorks Animations talking about how some pivoting and inorganic opportunities and they got the security with the root of trust, NIST certified and compliant. Pretty impressive. What's next? What else are you working on? Because this is where the R&D is on your shoulders for that next level of innovation. Where do you guys see that? Because security is a huge deal. I mean, that's that great example of how you guys innovated and bring, because that'll stop the vector of attacks in the surface area of IoT. If you can get the servers to lock down and you have firmware that's secure, it makes a lot of sense. That's probably the tip of the iceberg. What else is happening with security? So when we think about security and our efforts on advanced development research around the machine, what you're seeing here with the Proliance is making the machines more secure, the inherent platform more secure. But the other thing I would point to is the application we're running on the prototype, large scale graph inference. And this is security because you have a platform like the machine, able to digest hundreds and hundreds of terabytes worth of log data to look for that fingerprint, that subtle clue that you have a system that has been compromised. And these are not blatant, let's just blast everything out to some dot, dot, x, x, x subdomain. This is an advanced persistent thread by a very capable adversary who is very subtle in their reach out from a system that has been compromised to that command and control server. The signs are there if you can look at the data holistically. If you can look at that DNS log graph, a billion entries every day, constantly changing. If you can look at that as a graph, in totality, in a timeframe that matters, then that's a very powerful thing for our cyber defense team. And I think that's one of the interesting things that we're adding to this discussion. Not only protect, detect, and recover, but giving offensive weapons to our cyber defense team so they can hunt. They can hunt for those advanced persistent threats. One of the things, Andrew, I'll get your thoughts on the reaction of this because I'll make an observation, you guys can comment and tell me I'm all wet, fell off the deep end or whatnot. Last year, HP had great marketing around the machine. I love that Star Trek ad. It was beautiful and it was just, the machine is a great marketing technique. When you use the machine, so a lot of people set expectations on the machine. So you saw articles being written, maybe people didn't understand it. Little bit pulled back, almost damper down a little bit in terms of the marketing of the machine of the other than that been. Is that because you don't yet know what it's going to look like or there's so many broader possibilities or you're trying to set expectations? Because the machine certainly has a lot of range. And it's almost as if, if I could read your mind, you don't want to post the position too early on what it could do, that's my observation. Why the pullback? I mean, certainly as a marketer, I'd be all over that. Yeah, and I think part of it has been intentional just on how the ecosystem, we need the ecosystem to develop kind of around this at the same time, meaning there are a lot of kind of moving parts to it, whether it's around the open source community and kind of getting their head wrapped around what does this new architecture look like? We've got things like the Gen Z Consortium where we're pouring a lot of our understanding and knowledge into that. And so we need a lot of partners. We know we're in the day and an age, we're look, there's no single one company that's going to do every piece and part themselves. So part of it is kind of enough to get out there to get the buzz, get the excitement to get other people then on board. And now we have been heads down, especially this last six months, of getting it all together. You think about what we showed, essentially first booted the thing in November. And now we've got it running at this scale. That's really been the focus, but we needed a lot of that early engagement interaction to get a lot of the other members of the ecosystem kind of on board and starting to contribute. And really that's where we're at today. And it's almost you want to let it take its own course organically because you mentioned just on the cyber surveillance opportunity around the crunching. Kind of don't know yet what the killer app is, right? And that's the great thing of where we're at today. Now that we have kind of the prototype running at scale like this, it is allowing us to move beyond, look, we've had the simulators to work with, we've had kind of emulation vehicles. Now you've got the real thing to run actual workloads on. We had the announcement around DZNE as kind of an early, early example, but it really now will allow us to do some refinement that allows us to get to those product concepts. I wonder if we can just ask the closing question. So I've had this screen here. It's like the theater. And I've been seeing these great things coming up. And one was Moore's Law is Dead. Come on, Lurba. Oh, that was my session this morning. Another one was Blockchain. Unfortunately, I couldn't hear it, but I could see the T's. So when you guys come to work in the morning, what's kind of the driving set of assumptions for you? Is it just that technology is limitless and we're going to go figure it out?  And what are the fundamental assumptions that you guys use to drive your actions? So what's been driving me for the last couple of years is this exponential growth of information that we create as a species. That seems to have no upper bounding function that damps it down. At the same time, the timeframe we want to get from information, from raw information to insight that we can take action on seems to be shrinking from days, weeks, minutes. Now it's down to microseconds. If I want to have an intelligent power grid, intelligent 3G communication, I have to have microseconds. So you look at those two things and at the same time, we just have to be the lucky few who are sitting in these seats right when Moore's Law is slowing down and will eventually flatten out. And so all the skills that we've had over the last 28 years of my career, you look at those technologies and you say, those aren't the ones that are going to take us forward. This is an opportunity for us to really look and examine every piece of this because if it was something we could have just, can't we just dot, dot, dot do one thing? We would do it, right? We can't just do one thing. We have to be more holistic if we're going to create the next 20, 30, 40 years of innovation. And that's really what I'm looking at. How do we get back exponential scaling on supply to meet this unending exponential demand? So technically, I would imagine, that's a very hard thing to balance because the former says that we're going to have more data than we've ever seen. The latter says we've got to act on it fast, which is a great trend for memory, but the economics are going to be such a challenge to meet and balance that. We have to be able to afford the energy and we have to be able to afford the material cost and we have to afford the business processes that do all these things. So yeah, you need breakthroughs and that's really what we've been doing. And I think that's where we're so fortunate at Hewlett Packard Enterprise to have the labs team, but also that world-class engineering and that world-class supply chain and a services team that can get us introduced to every interesting customer around the world who has those challenging problems and can give us that partnership and that insight to get those kind of breakthroughs. And I wonder if there'll be a tipping point if the tipping point will be, and I'm sure you've thought about this, a change in the application development model that drives so much value and so much productivity that it offsets some of the potential cost issues of changing the development paradigm. And I think you're seeing hints of that. Now we saw this when we went from systems of record, OLTP systems to systems of engagement, mobile systems, and suddenly new ways to develop it. I think now the interesting thing is we move over to systems of action and we're moving from programmatic to training. And this is this interesting thing. If you have those zettabytes of data, you can't have a pair of human eyeballs in front of that. You have to have a machine learning algorithm. That's the only thing that's voracious enough to consume this data in a time-enough fashion to get us answers, but you can't program it. We saw those old approaches in old-school AI and old-school autonomous vehicle programs. They go about 10 feet, boom, and they flip over, right?  They're a little bit raw right now, but that improvement cycle is fantastic because they're training. They're not programming. Right. It's a great opportunity for the breakthrough to your point about Moore's Law, but also all this new functionality that has yet to be defined is right on the doorstep. Andrew Kirk, thanks so much for sharing that great insight. Love, you look back at labs. Love the R&D conversation. You know, it gets us a chance to kind of co-play in the wild and dream about the future. You guys are out creating congratulations and thanks for spending the time on theCUBE. Appreciate it. Thank you. theCUBE coverage will continue here live at Las Vegas for HPE Discover 2017. You look back at our enterprises annual event. We'll be right back with more. Stay with us.


Linda Quinlan. I'm Keith Ghostland. I'm Ann Charles. Welcome to All Things LGBTQ. We're taping in my Peel Your Vermont, which is unseated indigenous land, and it is Tuesday, August 8th. We have a lot going on, starting with Linda with national news. And here we go. Carmick and Let's Make a Deal host is living his authentic life and has publicly come out as pansexual. In an interview, an essay published Monday with people, Bradley51 said, I am pansexual. Or, the who's line is in any way star joked, bisexual. With an open mind, I love all people equally. And now that includes myself, he said. Harper star David Daniels and his husband Scott Walters pleaded guilty Friday to a sexual assault of a young man in 2010. Daniels and Walters reached a plea agreement as their trial was about to begin in Harris County in Houston. The Houston Chronicle reported the deal means the two men will avoid prison time. The man who spent more than 60 letters threatening violence to the Stonewall Inn and other LGBTQ individuals, allies and affiliated businesses was denied a request for early release from prison. Robert Firling claimed in a letter to Long Island federal court judge, Joanna Sebert, that he was not a hateful man. And that remaining prisoner amounted to a death sentence due to inadequate medical care behind bars. Firling is serving a 30 month sentence for a string of hateful and threatening letters sent to the LGBT plus community between 2013 and 2021. He recently suffered a heart attack but prosecuted notice noted in the response that his heart condition predates his sentencing date and did not stop him from threatening violence against the LGBT community for a total of eight years. Nice. I know. This country music bop taking the internet and streaming services by storm because it's got a catchy melody but it's the raunchy gay lyrics that makes the song unique. He's bouncing off my body cheeks. I love the way he rides. I can hardly breathe when he's pumping deep inside singing Sticks and Dallas in a viral hit, Good Looking. So here's the song.  You lean, heart starts to penetrate your side. You know I love. I'll be tapping my feet. A school district in Mississippi has implemented a dress code that discriminates against transgender students. Last month, the Harrison County School Board adopted a dress code that requires students to wear clothes matching their gender aside to them at birth. That means I should wear a onesie? Yes. Wear a diaper. Megyn Kelly and other right wing commentators are claiming that Megyn Ripp Rappino's progressive activism is bringing down the performance of the U.S. soccer team in the Women's World Cup. These morons on the women's soccer team continue to embarrass us on national stage, Kelly said on a podcast. After the tie, they're celebrating out there like they just won the whole thing, she said. They won't sing the national anthem. Half of them won't put their hands over their hearts. Half of them are singing, are half assing it. They clearly don't want to be doing it. I mean, they look like they don't even want to be there. It's like some sort of inconvenience to be representing the U.S.A. And you have an update, right? About the U.S. soccer match. No, but. They lost the U.S.A. Oh yeah, they lost the Sweden. Yeah. That's why she was talking like this. Centimeters. By a little, well, the first game was kind of a tie. Right. And they're heartbroken. I know. But this was her slam on them about why they- And they're 11 lesbians on the team. I know. I was going to report, but. I was going to say, it's a new team. And they knew going into the Women's Cup that they hadn't performed on an international stage. They did not have that much playing time. They were relying on the momentum of the moment. And it didn't quite happen. No. Yeah, it was too bad. I think it was like the worst performance in history, or, you know, in recent history. Oh, yeah. And she's saying it's because they're activists that it happened. Anyway, a former minister in Michigan pleaded guilty to the 1918 murder of a black transgender woman, Kelly Stowe, who was active in local Detroit ballroom scene. Authorities announced Albert Weather's 50. A former pastor of Lockeau's Church in Detroit pleaded guilty to secondary murder. And a felony firearm count in the case of Stowe, 38, whose body was found in the street around 6 a.m. December 7th. And he's only facing eight years in prison for murder. And another two years for a firearm charge. That seems a little lenient, don't you think? And a little celebrity gossip. Gabby Windy, who has appeared on The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, and dancing with the stars, has come out as queer and reveals she's dating a woman. So there you go for that.  Beyoncé paid tribute to O'Shea Sibley on Tuesday on her website. Sibley was stabbed to death at a gas station near Coney Island over the weekend. Sibley, a 28-year-old gay man who has professional dancer and some friends who are fully dancing and voguing to Beyoncé's music when a group of men approached them. The group of men allegedly stabbed Sibley and his friends with anti-gay slurs. The suspect, who police say is 17 years old, ran from the scene. The entire incident was captured on the gas station surveillance cameras. The case is being investigated as a potential hate crime by the NYPD Hate Crimes Task Force. Friends and family members gathered Tuesday in Philadelphia to remember O'Shea Sibley, who was fatally stabbed after he confronted teenagers, who taunted his group of gay black friends as they danced at a New York City gas station. O'Shea has the power to touch everyone's heart.  O'Shea was a beacon of light to a lot of us in our community, and here is a picture of him. They'd all been at the beach and stopped for gas on the way home. They'd all been to the beach, seen his friends, and they stopped for gas on the way home. So, Keith. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, right. So, the trivia question. And visibility is critical for the advancement of the queer communities. And in keeping with that theme and a story to come up in the next segment, this was the first openly and out HIV-positive gay man to appear on a national TV series, and Zach knew the answer. So, good going, Zach. I knew it right away. And you knew it before you asked it. And Rainbow Armbrella, the women's discussion group and book discussion group. Women's discussion is coming back in September. Book discussion group is still meeting. And there is a new date for Words in the Woods. Yes, September 16th. At 11 a.m. still. At 11 a.m. At Elmore State Park. All right, so we'll be promoting this. Fox Market, our friends in East Montpellier. Saturday, August 19th is their queers or magical creatures dance party. We're something festive. And also to acknowledge, they have a wine club and Saturday night dinners that are special features. And on the 26th, might be their Fettuccine Alfredo night. Italian macaroni and cheese. And I want to put out there again as nonprofits and organizations are struggling to recover to the flood. The Samara Foundation, they are putting out grant. You can submit a grant application for an amount up to $5,000 anytime prior to August 31st. So there's still time to get it in. We'll have Zach put up the contact again. And as we had said before, it doesn't have to be a special project. It could be unexpected needs. Or we need support in sort of helping our organization move to the next stage. But if you have a special project, they'd like to see that as well. I'm thinking of them as we speak. And some of us are afraid of that. And lastly, out in the open, in Brattleboro, they're doing a fundraiser specifically for the members of the LGBTQ plus community that were impacted by the flood. And their statement was, natural disasters can create unseen challenges for rural Queer Vermonters who had left their homes. Many folks here are alienated from their family of origin. That often happens in the LGBTQ community as people get disowned or pushed out of their families or communities of origin. And while so many locals are evacuating flooded homes to nearby family members, that might be more challenging for folks who don't have a local family. So they're doing specifically a fundraiser focusing on this, will put up the contact information. And their summit, which is happening in September, is now going to be a benefit for LGBTQ people trying to get past the flood. So with that, a lot of headlines, a lot of information, let's start with North America. And this isn't directly LGBTQ, but I think it's important. The Mexican city of Chihuahua is going to find anyone performing misogynistic songs. I know it. There goes half through repertoire. I know it. They've moved to ban performances of songs that promote violence against women, citing high levels of domestic violence, the city council. You've approved the measure unanimously. And the mayor said that fines for noncompliance could range from $40,000 to $74,000. Violence against women has reached levels that we could consider a pandemic, he said in a video message, adding that almost 70% of emergency calls in the city relate to domestic violence, in particular against women. We can't allow this. We also can't allow this to be normalized. And the law bans performance of songs. But also, there's a little offshoot. It bans narco songs, songs that promote drug dealing, and so forth. So very interesting. I'm impressed. Yeah. And any money collected from the fines are going to go to the Instituto Municipale de Mueres, a local government organization that promotes gender equality. And it's a women's refuge, too. Good for them. In Chihuahua state, there have been 24 femicides or gender-based killings from January to June of this year. So that's overdue, that kind of. Now, we have another story from North America, Grenada, which you don't hear much about in the news. And unfortunately, this story has kind of been overshadowed by Tyler Perry, who has offered a $100,000 award in connection with a gay man who was killed in Grenada. And I have a picture before you now of Hosea John T. Johnson, 24. He went to the beach and was found strangled. And he had a gig in that town the night before. So Tyler Perry is offering $100,000 for information relating to the murder. He was this Mr. Robinson was found dead on an island, the island nation's capital, St. George's, where he performed. And just to catch up on Grenada, it's in the lesser in Tilly's, it's homosexuality is illegal, with same sex acts punishable by up to 10 years in jail. And this is what came to mind. It's sort of interesting. Sexual orientation and gender identity, of course, are not legally protected. But, well, anyway, Perry said that when he learned of the death, his mind immediately went to Matthew Shepard and all the other victims of racist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, and xenophobic, senseless violence. What keeps coming to my mind is that any time there's been reporting on this island is Grenada or Grenada. Tomato or tomato.  I'll get some more clarity and present it next time. There's a new arrest in the assassination of Black queer lawmaker, Mariela Franco. And it's so sad. And I have a picture of you for you now, of a portrait of her in a mural in Rio. As you recall, she was killed by gunfire in 2018. We reported on it at length. Two former police officers have named and have been named, and the driver of the car named the third person, Anderson Gomez, who there was a chase in the streets of Rio when the murder occurred. And this other person was accused of, he's a fireman, too. I'm sorry. Gomez was the driver of Franco's car. This new person named is Samoa's Carrera, a former firefighter who allegedly hid the weapons used in the killing and played a key role before and after the attack, most notably by conducting surveillance on Franco and arranging the acquisition and disposal of the vehicle. Franco's sister thanked the investigators for the progress to date, but wondered aloud when justice would be served for those who ordered the assassination. She currently serves as a minister of racial equality. She said on Twitter, I have reaffirmed my trust in the federal police running the investigation and repeat the question I've been asking for the last five years. Who ordered Mariela's killing and why? Why did they? Well, it's Bolsonaro, don't you think? Yes, but why? Yeah, because she opposed him. Oh, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah. And continued to vocally call him out. Yeah, yeah. Well, now I'd like to go to England. Europe started with England. British rowing, it plans to ban transgender athletes from women's events, a familiar story. More than 80% of the body's members had advocated for the change to safeguard the family. World rowing allows transgender athletes to compete in the female category if they reduce their testosterone. World athletics, world aquatics, and cycling's governing body are among the global federations that have tightened their participation rules over the last couple of years. And soccer's world governing body, FIFA, is renewing its transgender eligibility policies. So more of the same. Now, after the fact, UK Prime Minister apologizes for banning LGBTQ plus service members. UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak apologized because the ban was in place from 1967 till 2000. And in the year 2000, they were forced to lift the ban because the European Court of Human Rights forced them to. They were denied medals. Some were taken away, some lost their pensions. And a report has been issued that filed 49 recommendations. And we'll see what happens with that. Sunak was very apologetic. And now one of my favorite stories is coming up from England. It involves a film in a clip. It's called Medusa Deluxe. It comes from the UK. It's an hour and 41 minutes. You can find it on JustWatch, which is some kind of app that we need to explore further. Otherwise, it's not streaming anywhere, but we've got to keep our eyes out for it. Let me tell you the plot. Talented, ambitious, and back-stepping hairstylists gather for a competition in England only to find one of their own murdered before judging can begin. Winding through the neon lit halls and backstage dressing rooms, competitors unspool long simmering resentments and secrets as they search for the killer among them in this devilishly funny whodunit from debut filmmaker, Thomas Hardiman. So let's look at the clip from Medusa Deluxe. You don't know what it's like losing your hair. Your mother's well-mead dad. There could be a serial killer on the list. It's a hairdressing competition. Did you kill it? How do they even know it's murder? Someone's scalped him? They're doing all right. All right. No. He was dead. They're following me, dead people. All I want to do is cut hair and they keep dropping. How do you tell someone the love has been scalped? There's short answers, Rene. They don't care about perms. There's me thinking we're just a bunch of hairdressers. She's fixing this. One smile and she's some kind of gangster fixing the show of murdering the ribos. I might take that break now.    I'm just these days, it's like... I may be glad I don't have hair. It's totally on your feet. I mean, just a clip. Gives you a really good picture. Because, you know, you'd like to see a lot of these and they're, you know... I've never heard of that one. Well, it's just out. Well, the streaming app may be a monthly fee or... Just watch is apparently a new thing and it trolls all the Netflix and Amazon Prime and everything and then you have to pay a monthly fee. Yeah, well, okay. Well, thank you, Anne. That was... We have a couple of good movies to look forward. Yes. We're Wolves. Still haven't seen Barbie, though. Oh, I want to see Barbie. But you have your Barbie shirt on. Yes. Sandy Staggs has a deep passion for the arts since he was a child. He grew up, he grew that passion to be a pillar in the upstate, creating a space for other art enthusiasts in the LGBT community. After Staggs died from a heart attack on February 27th at the age of 55, family reflected on his contributions to the arts and his own challenges when he first told people about his queer identity. Proud Mary Theater will continue with new performances and opportunities for LGBTQ-plus individuals to showcase their talents on stage. The company remains committed to its mission and will keep doors open for future publication to Georgia. It's in Georgia. Republican members of the House Appropriations Committee on Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, a THUD filed an block amendment on Tuesday striking three community project fundings. You did that. Massachusetts was one of them, correct? Yes, and I have a follow-up, actually. Okay, well, then I will leave that to you. And my last story here, I believe, is... If I can find it. Hmm? Yes, it is. It's Friday night at a small bar in an unassuming strip plaza, and 20 women are standing on the stage learning how to line dance. Clad, in their country best, they follow their high ponytail, Daisy Dukes wearing instructor's lead. A shuffle there, a turn here. Their feet zigzagging in step with their dance partners. Earlier this year, the ladies room couldn't gather this kind of crowd. Back in April, the Lago Lesbian Bar narrowly made it past the first ear mark. Now, thanks to a viral video, new business tactics, an old-fashioned word-of-mouth, more people are frequenting this spot. And there's only 16 lesbian bars in the United States. Wow. Yeah. So, they're trying to keep this one going. All right. So, Keith, we're on to you. So, do you wanna go learn how to line dance? Yeah. They're having line dancing at the senior center. Moving on. Starting in September, I can't wait. Oh, help. Actually, I've seen Linda take line dancing lessons at a bar in Houston. It's fun. Okay. Texas, huh? With my hat. Quickly following up on what Linda was alluding to in Massachusetts, their House Appropriations Committee took out $850,000 from the budget. And that's money that was targeted for the pride home, our retirement community in the city. Well, guess what? The Senate's put it back in. Good. Good. So, they restored the money. And the executive director of the LGBTQ senior housing project said, the pride house will happen. Good. End of comment. So, good going. By the time this show airs, the Red Cross, following the CDC guidelines, will no longer be asking questions about sexual orientation or gender identity with the intention of prohibiting you from donating blood. The protocol will be, as we have always asked, not based on who you are, but your practices. What is it that you have done within the last three months that potentially could infect the blood supply? So, it's gonna be based totally on practices, not identity. It's about time. And there was an adjective in there if you didn't hear it. So, I read this article in seven days and got very excited. There is a new queer theater and dance company. It is called, it's called Between the Willows. And their first performances are this weekend, unfortunately. Wow. And their performance is Beast of Crete. And I have a couple of photos that we'll have put up so you could see the production. These are two students that had met at the Essex High School. And now that they've graduated and moved on, they're like, okay, one of them did choreography, the other one did directing and production. So they decided they wanted to start a theater company. They got funding from PCC, which is a computer company in Burlington. And what's the name of the theater? It is Between the Willows. Okay. And PCC, which is a computer company that was founded by Jay Schuster, they have been the lead sponsors for queer activities in Vermont for years. The queer productions that have come into the Flynn, it's usually PCC that has been the sponsor. And some of the comments was, I think it's just important in general to have minority voices or marginalized voices be at the forefront of telling their stories.  And it's really, really beautiful and wonderful to have a space that's solely dedicated to expressing queer joy and queer experiences. Nice. So I'm really looking forward to- Me too. And could they do your play? The one this evening in- No, no, standing in this place was specifically for monitors telling- But they couldn't do that there? No, no, don't think about it. That's a longer conversation over dinner, okay? And this is a story that when I was reading it, I didn't think I'd have any bicuspids left because I was going to snap them all. Seven days did an in-depth story saying, if you think the Alliance Defending Freedom has targeted Vermont, you're right. And they went through, and what I hadn't appreciated is the Alliance Defending Freedom has already been involved in five suits here in Vermont, and they've won three of them. And they're doing it on a basis of freedom of speech, freedom of religion. And as we have reported on previous shows, they're incredibly devious. They will create cases that they can then file for reappear or appeal from court to court to court to get to the U.S. Supreme Court, excuse me, where they know it's a favorable panel. And that's what happened in Maine, which is one of the suits that actually they won here in Vermont. It was parochial school, Rice Academy, Rice Memorial High School in South Burlington based on that main decision. The state of Vermont had to give the parochial school, public school dollars for tuition that had originally been denied that was then ruled unconstitutional because they could be- That's obscene. And that's what happened in the Supreme Court case. Exactly. They manufactured. Well, they viewed a 303 decision. Right. But one of the things that Alliance Defending Freedom is looking at right now are the pregnancy crisis centers that were identified in the most recent piece of legislation where we put into statutes that if they engage in what is essentially deceptive advertising, that they can be fined $10,000 to $15,000 per incident.  They have the right to promote themselves. However, what Charity Clark, our Attorney General has come back with is we have the same deceptive advertising language already in statutes as it relates to healthcare clinics that offer abortion services. You're merely being held to the same standard. We've identified you and we're going to enforce this. And what the Alliance Defending Freedom admitted to the reporter who contacted them is that they're watching us very closely to see what is gonna happen in the next legislative session where the house, this most recent session was trying to figure out how to define when and if a faith-based school was eligible for state tax dollars for funding. And what they were looking at is the school had to agree to follow Vermont's non-discrimination statutes and that the monies that were given to the school could only be used for secular, not sacred studies. So if you were going to a Catholic school and there was a catechism component of your day, the monies couldn't be used to pay for that instructor, but they would pay for the English teacher, which I knew gives you, you can sleep at night. Knowing the English. They're in college sometimes, the same teacher. Well, if there's a college, then only a portion of the monies could be used for the salary. You would have to separate. And that's where our legislature got bogged down, was trying to tease out, okay, what is the language, where is the line? And they were also looking at what had happened with the case that came out of Maine and was finally decided by the US Supreme Court. Okay, where's the line? What did they specifically say? And from reading the language of that original court case, it was looking at the school could apply and they had to be given the same consideration as every other school. It wasn't an automatic, you get money. So, and it was very specific to, you were a township that did not have a school within your district, so you were tuitioning your students out, okay. My last story is not a fun one. And it's an incident that happened in Somersworth, New Hampshire. And Somersworth is just outside of Portland, New Hampshire. About an hour north of your old stomping grounds in Boston, gay male couple who run William Pool Confections Shop and they lived upstairs over the shop. They were beaten by a group of youth. And they now say that they're frightened to be in their store and in their home because at one point a youth had climbed up the side of the building onto the ledge to try and get into their apartment. So it's not that they happen to see them on the beach or on the street. At one point they try to actively get into their home. So they didn't beat them in their home. That's what I heard.  The report that I read on LGBTQ Nation was that the group were outside of their home and business yelling. And it made it sound like they were beaten in their house. No, like they were. They tried to get in their house. This is where it gets confusing. They were assaulted by young people who had tried to enter their home. So they may have gone out to confront them or tried to escape. And that's when the beating happened. But you're right. Some of the language said, here's the youth trying to get in. And then they were assaulted as part of that whole process. And that is an additional violation, you know. You're right. Exactly. And you know, the civil rights unit of the Office of Attorney General, the local law enforcement are actively pursuing this. Exactly. Right. So this is not just something that's gonna pass. And on that cherry note. Was it because they were LGBTQ? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because they were yelling homophobic slurs. Well, I have kind of good news from Italy. Certainly colorful news. More up than what we've been... A little bit, but yeah. It's mixed, but mostly good in a tempered kind of way. First of all, I mentioned last time about the Georgia Maloney's crusade against lesbian parents in which the law said that you couldn't acknowledge paternity or maternity from LGBTQ parents who adopted the fraud. And so that would leave the child, the parents would have to engage in a readoption process. So the kid would have no family during this period, but Milan will resume registering students born abroad from male couples. It's registering the mayor, who's a lefty, said he challenged curbs and posts by the right-wing national government. The government, as you know, took action in January to stop local authorities from registering children of same-sex parents in a move that sparked protests. No longer able to register children born abroad to couples of two men, the city of Milan, turned to the Interior Ministry, asking if it could at least register the newborns under their biological father. So it got a green light, which means that Milan could kind of partially sidestep this horrible rule. The left, center-left mayor Giuseppe Sala hailed the decision as a step forward. The local arm of the Interior Ministry had told the city of Milan that it could no longer register children of male parents without a court approving the adoption. Now Milan has received this go-ahead, so that means the city can sidestep the veto at least with the biological father. The other parent still has to engage in the adoption process, but that's another victory concerns a Canadian couple who won a case against a right-wing party in Italy, Georgia-Malone's party, that used a photo of their newborn son in an anti-LGBT campaign. And now let me show you a picture of B.J. Barone, Frank Nelson, and Milo They won the court case. This, the child Milo was born via a surrogate in Ontario in 2014 during Pride weekend. The couple had the moment captured by a local photographer, Lindsey Foster, who really is behind the eight ball on this one, in photos that later went viral. In 2016, the image was used without permission in the campaign against surrogacy for male same-sex parents by the brothers of Italy, Milo's party. And we know that she became Italy's first prime minister, who was a woman and has formed the most right-wing government scene in decades. So anyway, the photographer told CBC News, it was upsetting to know that there was a political party sharing this photo in such a negative way for their hate propaganda against gays and surrogacy. So she, Barone and Foster sued the party and it made the couple war-warded the equivalent of more than $14,000 Canadian each. However, the photographer has to pay the court costs of the right-wing party. So the copyright infringement fight was thrown out by a judge and because for that reason I have to pay the Fratelli d'Italia's court fees. She said she would have to work for months to cover the cost. But a friend launched a GoFundMe to help the target the $8,000 Canadian and it's almost been reached thanks to more than 130 donations. So the parents speaking to the media said, I'll never forget the love I felt and luckily for us it was captured by Lindsay in the most beautiful photo I've ever seen. Somewhat positive outcome. But now this is a hoot. Trans women, pageant organizer Patricia Marigliani has made clear that this is about Miss Italy, that the competition is open only to contestants who are signed female at birth. And that has angered trans activists so trans man Federico Barbarossa decided to enter the pageant and encouraged other trans men to do so. It was like, yeah well I was a signed female at birth but they would reject me because I looked like a boy and they would consider me as a boy, he told NBC News but he applied to be a contestant using his dead name and the pageant official sent him a confirmation email. He posted it on Instagram and his local activist group mixed LGBTQIA plus shared it on social media as well and suggested that other trans men apply. At least a hundred people have entered and said the pageant staff will have to go through every application. Perhaps Marigliani and her associates will think better next time he told NBC. I like to think I'm a little part of Italy's progress in this sense. Some applicants have advanced to the next stage of the process. There's a great deal of ignorance about trans people he pointed out. They would never think that a trans person might even aspire to win a beauty pageant because we're seen as kind of like a three headed monster. And I think part of it is that so many people have never seen trans women or trans men or trans people in general. Miss Italy is not affiliated with Miss Universe, the Miss Universe pageant. Miss Italy Universe is a separate competition. At least one trans woman has advanced to Miss Universe pageant this year. Ricca Cole, who won Miss another ones which I reported on last time as the first trans out trans woman to do so. Miss Universe has allowed trans women to compete since 2012 and in 2018, Angela Ponce of Spain became the first trans contestant. In the US, Catalina and Ricca has won Miss Nevada in 2021 and competed as Miss USA. I never thought I'd be paying so much attention to beauty pageants as I am doing this show. That's a hoot. I know, I know it. They're fighting back in Italy. All right, bad, sad story. I'd like to show you a picture now of the Chechen singer, Zalim Khan Bakav. Who has this, you see the picture of Ramzan Karadoff, the head of Chechnya posing with this singer. And when Kaderov discovered that this singer was gay and that he had posed with them, he ordered the torture and murder of him because the Putin ally was personally insulted to have unknowingly shaken hands with a gay man. Now I reported on Zalim Bakav's going missing after returning to Chechnya for his sister's wedding in 2014. The popular singer fled to Moscow because of the gay purge in Chechnya. And Karadoff was aghast that the photo existed of the two men shaking hands. He ordered security forces to deal with him who was tortured for much of the 13 hours he was in custody before he was executed. I guess he didn't creep here. The report said that Bakav's body was returned to his family in order to bury him like a dog. Months after he went missing, Kaderov gave a speech to service members accusing Bakarov's family of killing him because they learned he was gay. They told him, come over. And when he arrived, apparently his cousins or second cousins confronted him and said, you're gay, Kaderov claimed in the 2018 speech. Despite the denial of involvement, the speech was the first official admission that he was dead. Now, let's go to Asia if there's time. There is. If there's an Iran morality official who's been suspended after the leak of a gay sex tape, which is all very confusing. I don't know what to believe and I don't think anybody does. The tape, the official in charge of Iran's morality code and hijab requirement for women was suspended early this month after an unconfirmed video released to social media purportedly showed him he sex with a young man. But it's an unconfirmed video. He was suspended and after it was first posted on this radio station in his township and it was reportedly filmed on the premises of the general directorate of culture and Islamic guidance. But the officials don't know anything about it and as we know, homosexuality and same-sex sexual relations are illegal in Iran and publishable by death. So critics claim, I mean, critics rightly claim if this case is true, that it just shows the hypocrisy of the government and the two-tiered system of justice that allows favored individuals through escape punishment for crimes that would bring prosecution, imprisonment and even death to ordinary citizens. However, and apparently his, the officials' sister and nieces were detained by authorities, although it's unclear whether he's been taken into custody. Speculation has grown that the video might have been released as part of a power struggle in the region. And the radio that exposed this tape exposes alleged financial and political corruption and sexual improprieties of ruling Mullahs and members of the government. And this is interesting. It also recently revealed the identities of those engaged in same-sex acts with a different government official and referred them to the authorities for prosecution. So this is also murky and very creepy. And people can do anything with a video these days. Well, yeah, no one has confirmed it. Artificial intelligence create whatever you would like your reality to be. I know. Absolutely. And that police state, atmosphere, and sponsors questionable behavior. Russia has taken its first step toward banning gender-affirming procedures. I won't go into more of that. And we need to have time for the trivia question. Okay, can I just do some headlines? Oh, well, I'll have to save it for next time. And we'll defer to Keith. A lot of interesting stuff coming up next time. All right, I'm kind of scared, but okay. So the trivia, this was the first out self-disclosed HIV positive gay man to appear on a national TV series. It was 1994, and it was MTV's reality show, The Real World, San Francisco, where it is a group of youth who are sharing an apartment and they just go in and film the everyday interactions. Why don't I remember this? And the person was Pedro Zamorro. First HIV positive gay man. He was also the first same-sex wedding ceremony to be televised nationally, and it occurred with the context of this show. And it was his partner, Sean Sasser. But unfortunately, Pedro also died in November of that year of complications due to HIV, but he is frequently referenced on the list of LGBTQ milestone newsmakers, so. Bravo. And with that. I think. Well, can I do a couple more headlines? Has full-out chief a new attack on same-sex relations. The leader of Lebanon's powerful Hezbollah movement on Saturday stepped up his attacks against the region's long-marginalized LGBTQ community. He said of gay people, even if they do it once, they are to be killed. Okay, on that note, I think we should go. All right. We have 50 seconds. All right. So I would like to tell everybody, and let's see what happens in Ohio today. Yeah. And keep your eyes open and remember to resist. Resist.