And he was invited to this, this, this Thelima group in, in Hollywood, and they had a thing called the, the Gnostic Mass, and it's basically a mass that they do, and it just blew his mind. He used to write to Crowley in England saying, my beloved father and things like this. And there's a genuine affection there that Crowley was getting up with, was getting out of this point. She was the first person in the United States, I believe, to make an official report of seeing a UFO in the desert. I mean, you couldn't get a rizzle of paper in between these blocks. Thomas Sheridan, how are you dear sir? I'm great, Chris. It's good to be here. Brilliant. Are you on the Emerald Isle now? Yes. I'm in the, the west of Ireland, very beautiful west of Ireland with the sun shining and it feels nice and springtime-y. Yes. Early summer. How's your life? Very good. I'm very busy, possibly too busy, but, because there's lots of hobbies and stuff and things I want to do. I'm missing out on, but I'm at my happiest when I'm working, so I can't really complain really, you know. And if you're doing, like I'm writing a book at the moment, I'm making a film at the moment and I have a regular job and a part-time regular job, it's just, it's just that if I had, if I won the lot, I'd get a team to actually help. The biggest part for me is when you edit the videos, it takes forever.  So I'd love to, I've had, well, in the lot though, that's what I do at heart, the film people that actually do the editing and stuff. What is, what does esoteric mean for people and what does occult mean? Well, first of all, you just blew my mind with an incredible synchronicity because I'm working on a project with my colleague, Sarah Mondaini, who run the show Focus Together and we were dealing due today with the story of how television has been used to actually damage people at the mental health level to make them more compliant to government mandates and so on.  When we were growing up, we were talking about, she was talking about a TV show, I lived in America for a long time, she was talking about a TV show that was broadcast on the BBC called Threads in the mid 80s about a nuclear attack on Sheffield and the whole thing was just to destroy your, your, your, your sense of security and to make you feel like this thing was going to happen any minute and there was no hope. And the same time every year early, there was one called The Day After on American TV, which was the highest rated TV movie in American TV at the time, 100 million viewers. And he had focus groups and counseling groups. There was about a nuclear attack on Lawrence, Kansas, and the same kind of thing. It's going to happen. You don't have a hope in hell. And people came away from these movies, genuinely damaged, genuinely in a state of trauma. And this was not by accident. This was not, I don't believe for a minute that this was art. I don't believe for a minute that this was just like, you know, let's address the pressing issue of the hour. I believe that this was a, these were deliberate processes to psychologically damage the population in order to make them fearful, anxiety-ridden, and to make them ultimately compliant. And that actually is esoteric, because that really is black magic. You know, the definition of black magic is to force your will upon somebody else. That's, it's as simple as that. What you want from somebody, you force it upon them, against them, either not knowing or against their will. Now, esoteric thing, it just basically means those elements of life which stand outside the sort of mainstream conventions, other ways of it, you know, say outside science, say it's saying, you know, that kind of world, that there is another reality, there's another way of doing things in this life, in this universe. And it's glued together by mysteries, by synchronicities, by mythology, by these concepts that are out there, they're incorporeal and that they exist. They are amongst us, they are part of our existence. They're everything from intuitions all the way up to magical rituals, but they're still a fact of life. And in many ways, they are the underlying antivirus software of the machinations imposed upon us by everyday life. And that's why I got interested in them. Something changed in me, Thomas, when I, you know, I suffer from chronic drug addiction, which is basically a manifestation of unresolved childhood trauma. And without boring people who probably heard the story before, there was one day when things got so low and I got so lonely, cold, starving. I woke up and a few things came into my mind. I did a bit of processing. I looked at the light, the light shining through my blinds, just like this glimmer of light. And something changed in my being, my existence. And I knew from that moment, like I'd never see life in the same way again. It was almost as though the universe had given me a superpower. I guess it was me opening my third eye and realizing that we live in a very controlled structure. It can seem really mean because all we relate to relationships within this controlled medium.  You're worrying about like, what job have I got? How am I perceived? How much money? And in that moment, it was like the universe was saying, do you know what, Chris? You all right? You're absolutely perfectly fine. Get out there, start living life for you, not trying to appease this control system. That was my kind of opening to esoterics, Thomas. Do I make sense? Yeah, this has been spoken about all through history. To use the Christian parable, you had that St. Paul Road to Damascus kind of revelation. You know, this is what Carl Jung calls, stepping into consciousness where you have existed as a sort of an existing being. You've been there, you've been in the world, you've been functioning, you've been about there, but then something happened and it's often caused by trauma. When you're at your lowest step, Carl Jung talks about his stepping into consciousness when he was 10 years old, when he saw a schoolboy that he went to school with dead of the river from drowning where he lived and it's stepped him into consciousness. So generally, there's two kinds of people in this world. There's people like myself who kind of, it happens slowly. I've never had problems with depression or anything like that. I've been very fortunate in my life that way. It happened through a kind of distillation process, through existence and going through life and experience life. And then there's the folks like yourself and in some ways, I have to say this, I'm kind of envious of you for that, that did go down into the shadow world, that did go into the labyrinth, that did go and face the minotaur.  And then that was the real you coming out from behind that. And that's what that was. And it often happens at the darkest moment. Now, some people that make the drives them crazy, develop a kind of an egotistic thing, they think I've been chosen or something. That's rare though, that's very rare. The majority of people will tell you, I mean, William, it happened with the English poet, William Blake. It's an experience I've never, it's like people I know have these experiences in it and I wish I had them. I know it's, I don't want to say I envy you going into the dark side, into the bottom, into the labyrinth. But that sort of like Maslow's peak experience kind of thing that Pauline wrote to Damascus and stepping into consciousness.  This is why when I'm sort of doing life coaching or posting, trying to post inspiration, I try and say to people, you know, there's no such stuff as, there's no such thing as a good experience or a bad experience. It's all just experience. And when I look at my life now and I feel very fortunate, I sort of without sounding like I'm bragging, I've achieved every dream I ever had. I've traveled to every place I ever wanted to. I've done all the adventure sports I kind of admired from the movies, you know, the films growing up.  I don't like dying out on this, but this year, Thomas I was made English, English veteran of the year for inspiration, you know? Outstanding, congratulations. It says 2022 because they haven't had the, but my point I'm getting at is like I'm well aware I couldn't be living this existence if I hadn't had the challenges that I have. So I don't look at them in any way, shape or form is negative.  And I would say, no, I never turned my life around. I just like kept on going. I think it was the book Junkie by William S. Boros and he talks about the spiritual element of being a heroin addict. You know, I was covered somewhat in train spotting as well, but to a lesser degree that the rejuvenation out of addiction was an extremely spiritual experience. And I have friends, for some reason in my life I've had lots of friends who have been heroin addicts and they're all, to the individual, whether I was growing up on the north side of Dublin to today, all decent, kind, highly intelligent people I've never met a heroin addict who was not intelligent. It's almost like that, it's part and part of the package, the intellect and the strong soul here and the amorphous, you know, opiate here. You know, it almost like they're symbiotic. And it's the same with the alcoholics. Look how many alcoholics are phenomenal writers and actors and things like that, you know? It's almost like this interplay of struggle, you know? That leads to greatness.  That book was fascinating. I remember there was a couple of bits. I think we're talking about the same book and feel free to tell me if we're not. But the first thing was the, I think they called it like the lush rollers where they went on the trains at night waiting for the business people who were on their long commute to get home and they maybe had a beer or something and they fall asleep and they would just go up alongside them and, you know, remove them of their wallet. That's the same book, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. I had a boss in New York. He's dead now, so I can talk about him. He was a heroin addict. And he told me that, and he was like about the Vietnam generation. And he was telling me that like one of the things he did was they used to get when they were like poking up the syringe that they would get the water. One time they had no water and he went into a church and got it from them. Baptismal font in a church.  But think of it in a different way. Think of it as like, you know, if you have a spiritual belief, God would put that there for you to actually stop you from dying. Especially if it's going to wake you up and for the spiritual journey at the end of it. He went down the Christian path, but yeah, that's what happened, yeah. So Jack Parsons, let's talk about Jack with a fascinating character. They recently made a documentary or a drama documentary. What was it called? Strange Angel, wasn't it? Yes, yes. I was on CBS TV in America, yeah. Essentially he was like the guy that was originally behind NASA. Absolutely fascinated with rockets and the attempt to get one into space. And him and his buddies operated out the desert in California, so Hollywood sort of area. And I don't know, I like to think at some point he found this experiment so difficult.  They certainly weren't getting anywhere near, quote unquote, space, whatever that might be. And he got invited to the Lima, which was Alastair Crowley's, what do we call that? Like a cult, a dark, dark religion or something? It's just basically a religion. It's not even dark, it's just a religion. Yeah. And well, what happened was he grew up in, he grew up in Southern California and since he was by him and his friend Ed were obsessed with science fiction. It's very interesting. It's almost like a chaos magic life in itself. And they were obsessed with science fiction and they used to build little rockets in Pasadena in their backyard and they would try to launch rockets. So he became interested in rockets and he basically his family fell out of money and things like that. So he ended up kind of working in factories and chemical plants, stealing chemicals to try and build his own rockets as a hobby. And we're the same friends from school and with some success, I might add, they actually made some liquid fuel rockets. Our chemical fuel rockets. Enough for the U.S. military and JPL laboratories in Pasadena. That's jet propulsion, that's not like person's labs. That became kind of a joke later. But to give him grants to actually develop a rocket thruster for aircraft, the Americans were not interested in rockets. They were having tremendous success with aviation and building airplanes. So they didn't really have an interest in rockets. So he formed a company, a jet propulsion company, a aeroget company, and they successfully built during World War II, thousands of these rocket motors to give an aircraft a boost, right? And while this is all going on, he was in underneath the Hollywood sign, he heard about this thing called, he was always interested in, he was an educated man. He was the head of the Los Angeles Science Fiction Club and he was always interested in offbeat things. And he was invited to this Thelima group in Hollywood and they had a thing called the Gnostic Mass and it's basically a mass that they do and it just blew his mind. And so he realized that there were answers here that were outside that explained the strange things in science or in accidents that should have, like accidents that went wrong, but they actually turned out to be the right thing. There was like an unseen force in the universe and he drew himself wholly into magic and the occult at the same time he was building the rockets. At the same time he was in contact before World War II, this is before World War II, with Verneur von Braun, who eventually invented the Saturn V rocket. He was shocked and all the Americans were shocked to find out just how far behind the rockets were in America compared to Germany. The Germans were light years ahead, but Verneur von Braun was also a science fiction head, which was very interesting. These guys were brought, they took science fiction and made it into reality in many ways. His life, he started this thing called the Agape Lodge, which was in Pasadena. And it was basically kind of a hippie loving thing before the hippies came along and he was getting paid a good salary done by Aerojet Corporation. So he had this like commune, we call it a commune of like artists and writers and you know, who's looking women and stuff like that. After a while, this guy called L. Ron Hubbard comes in, who goes on to be the founder of Scientology. Jack Parsons becomes spellbound by him, mainly because Parsons lacked his father walked out on when he was young and he had this long-term need for a father figure. And he got interested and introduced to people like Crowley through dialogue and letters. And Crowley and Parsons became kind of surrogate father figures for him. They became his, you know, he used to write to Crowley in England saying my beloved father and things like this. And there was a genuine affection there. Now Crowley was getting on at this point. Now Parsons and Hubbard really got into magic and they have this concept of creating something called the Moonshild. And it's a really amazing story. There's a book by Crowley, it's an actual fictional novel. I mean, it's quite a fun read called Moonshild. I had a copy, I don't know where it is right here. And it talks about in a cult group who had planted into a woman a magical child called the Moonshild with the process of making the human race eligible for the next stage of reality, you know, this kind of thing. Now this was to appeal to Parsons and Hubbard in some way because maybe Parsons was probably thinking it's not gonna be easy for humans to exist in space. As we found out, it's really, they come back with all kinds of health problems and mental problems and everything. So maybe this idea of the Moonshild appeared to them that we actually built the human that would be ready for space. Something that Stanley Kubrick played around but in 2001, the Moon did the start child. They went down to the Baha'i Desert and did this invocation called the Babylon working. And it was to get basically the whole of Babylon. And they went down there with a book and an recovered a book was a woman with flaming red hair and that was his personification of Babylon. And it's just amazing. When they come back from the ritual, this gorgeous red-headed vamp called Marjorie Cameron is waiting for Parsons in the Pasadena Lodge. That was his Babylon. And it's just even more amazing. She was the first person in the United States, I believe, to make an official report of seeing a UFO in the desert. And she became his muse and so on. And so the Babylon ritual had actually worked. It worked. Now, unfortunately, Parsons died in an accident when he was working on a new kind of rocket fuel and the motor exploded in his garage and killed him. And there's talk that he was assassinated because he was working as a subcontractor for the Israeli military at the time. So there's all kinds of rumors that they, well, it probably could be true that the FBI or CIA killed him because he was giving records, details of American projects to the Israelis because they were allies at that time. But however, from that man's life, from two eight-year-old boys building rockets in the backyard, the Saturn V rocket landed on the moon. And you can draw a clean trajectory. And it's like, oh my God. It's like, they started the rocket motor company aerogit. They found it, what became JPL. JPL brought over, Vernevon brought after the war for Project Blue, Project Blue Book, Project Paperclip. And then that became the Apollo problem, the Mercury problem, Apollo problem, the man landed on the moon. And it started with two little boys experimenting and passing it. There's one that was kind of like, it was written out as a fictional story. You wouldn't believe it. What about, it just changes something different here, Thomas, what about crop circles? Cause they're just utterly fascinating whether that sunblocks going out with a spade in one of those wooden things or... I went to the barge pool about 10 years ago down there in that part of England where all that goes on. And I got talking to guys who were the bakers at the crop circles. They're made by fellas. They're made by women and women. A lot of them seem to be tattoo artists for some reason. However, they will tell you that they're in a mystical state when they're doing it. It's just some other, you see, unfortunately, they throw the spacemen thing on everything, aliens on everything. And it's sort of like the grades, the power of human consciousness in many ways. And it kind of plays our down our abilities. But these guys told me, and I believe them, that they're the ones who made the circles. They're basically the whole bunch of them. And they go out there at night and they just sort of fall into them. They have a general idea of what they want to do, but they fall into a kind of a mystical state and create these stunning artworks in the cereal crops.  And then every time you sort of go around the circle or there's squares and everything now, you kind of go to your mark and then if you flatten that bit of corn, you're going to get these amazing results. But it still takes a hell of a lot of planning work. And also it depends on, you know, you can fold the corn in different directions, great shading and patronation. So you can have like different like cones and stuff like that as they spray it from the air. But I would consider them guys English shaman. That's what I would call them. Cereal, they call them serialologists. But I would actually call them English shaman. You know, that's a that to me. When I look at that now, and I haven't spoken to these lads in close, I would say that that's the English shamanic tradition expressed in the starting in the 1980s and the continuance of today. Stonehenge, another. Gosh, what an enigma. What's your take on it, Thomas? Because I know you've done some work around this. A friend of mine called Mick, who was actually in the English British Army. He's actually from Lancashire. He lives here near with me. And he was telling me that back in the 50s, when he was a young lad doing his national service or whatever he had in England back then, that him and his friends were stationed down in my Stonehenge. And at the time, it wasn't really a tourist spot at all. It was just like, you could walk right up to it. There was no admission fee or anything. And he said they stood in the circle and they could hear weird sounds. He told me, and this is like, this guy's a real Lancashire man. He wouldn't make these things up.  And there's something about that thing to do with sound. And when we were talking, the sound would change. So I actually was fortunate enough to get into Stonehenge about seven years ago. Myself and a few people, we were making a film. So we bought the license. The production company bought the license. And I was there as the sun was rising inside Stonehenge itself. Just me and a few other people.  I couldn't believe I'd managed to pull this one off, you know, but I did.  Okay, now it's an incredible mystery. What made our ancestors build these phenomenal stone and they're everywhere? And aren't there's 40,000 of them. And they're not to the same spectacular level as Stonehenge. That's an elite by itself. But there was, these people had a technical, the megalithic world is a technological world. Now these people were highly intelligent. They were very advanced, but they operated with a kind of science that's not the science that we use today. And I also believe they were operated with a kind of mathematics. That's not the mathematics we use today.  They were off doing their own thing. And this allowed them to perform these feats. I mean, no one can explain how Stonehenge was built from beginning.  But the prevailing mystery is how they got the stones from the Pusselli mountains in Wales to that part of England. And if you look at that, the theories have been that they brought them down as far as the Severin and a few other rivers and they floated them over on barges. That they tried much smaller stones over the years to experiment with this and they all sunk to the bottom of the river.  And then back down to the south with these gigantic stones, you know. And so that's in me like the building of the pyramids.  We are, this is not true. And rolling them on rollers across the hills of central England impossible, you know, after getting them down from the mountains. Well, this is one of these things you talked about earlier on about esoteric. And, you know, mysteries held within parables and stories and mythologies. And in Geoffrey of Monmouth's story, Arturian legends, he tells a story of how the stones from Stonehenge were actually originally in Ireland and were levitated to where they are in England now, right, Salisbury plain. Now, and now for years I was thinking that's absurd until I found out that that part of Wales used to be part of Ireland at the time of Maryland, who was a real character and really existed. Now, what that's really telling us is that that's a memory of a much more ancient time, folk memory, going back as 5,000 years, perhaps. We know from studies at the University of Lisbon and also the University of Durham in England that they found that fairy tales have a spectacular ancient origin, like go back 5,000 years at the Bronze Age at least and even much further. So we're being told that possibly the science here that in the Neolithic times, they had a way, and I do believe that it's now of levitating stones. Either true sound, which is very, the most likely one for me now, or gravity of the Earth was different. And how do you explain these enormous 1,01500 ton lentils picked up at the Temple of Jupiter in Balbec and flit into a slot 30 feet off the ground? We can't do that today. Well, we can do it now in the last, say, 50 years, you have cranes, but they're not like cranes, like lifting cranes. So you have to build like a whole structure. They're like the cranes they have in shipyards, they've shipped up like that. But they said that they were done with wooden pulleys and reed ropes. No, the lies of ancient archeology are monumental. And I really do believe there was an Atlantean culture. It probably wasn't called Atlantis, but absolutely, in my heart, I've always kind of known it. And in the last 30 odd years of research, I now believe that there was a time before this where there was high technology. And that's what builds downhenge. And that's what built all the incredible ancient megaliths of the world. And that somehow was lost, whether it was a catastrophe of some times or the scientists all went mad, like they're going mad today. I don't know, but it existed. Yes, hidden, again, it's hidden knowledge or just not understood knowledge, but I traveled a lot in South, well, I've traveled a lot in the Americas, but I traveled a lot in Central and South America. And is it on me or Tepe? I'll probably get in the name wrong here, but you see these structures and like you say, each block is like a thousand tons or something, just incredible. And they're fitted together seamlessly.  They're all different shaped sort of blocks. And do we have any idea, Thomas, how, I mean, you couldn't get a risler paper in between these blocks. And there's hundreds, if not thousands of them, all fitted together to make, say, a wall or something, or a structure that we probably have no idea about. But how could they do that? I don't know.  I was in Sri Lanka on top of a mountain and there was that same interlocking stonework, you know, and when I asked the tour guide who built this, and he says, this is before the Buddhists came to Sri Lanka.  And yeah, I mean, there are polygonal walls that look remarkably like cell structures on plants, some of them. And I do wonder, there are stones that exist in Romania called frabants, and they're actually living stones, incredible as it sounds. They're moving across the landscape. They're made from limestone, but they're some kind of like mineral, or animal or fungus or something. They're a great mystery. So maybe these stones, these walls that look like cell structures were actually grown. I don't know. I'm just trying to stuff out there. Again, it was a technology that we don't understand.  In the 1970s, a Japanese science crew wanted to build a replica of a pyramid. The show could have been done with traditional engineering techniques. So they hired a hundred labors in Egypt. And on the Giza plateau, they decided, we're going to build a one-fifth scale pyramid. And to show it could have been done with the tools that, you know, with the say.  Well, the first thing was they discovered that they couldn't cut the stones with chisels or any other way. So they got electric chainsaws and you had to get several of them to cut the stones blocks. Then they found out that the stone block one tone, they couldn't even move it a few inches. So they went down with some quarter of that size. So the pyramid, the original pyramid they're going to build now quarter of the size.  So then they hired a ship and took them across the Nile. They got on the other side and tried to build a pyramid and got so frustrated with trying to build it that they ended up using a helicopter and industrial crane to make a pyramid about 30 foot high. And then they declared that science had proven that traditional engineering had built the pyramid. Now this is what you're dealing with. You're dealing with a kind of, and we saw it in the ultra the last three mysterious years, haven't we? A kind of a gaslighting by intellectuals and academics who cannot accept that there's perhaps answers out there they'll never answer. So they make up lies and tell you about them. Like, let's talk about Easter Island, right? You know Easter Island with the Moai statues, right? If back in 2012, the National Geographic Society claimed they saw that all statues were moved from the quarry. They were rocked up and down a road by fellas one ropes, right? And they made a small scale version of one of the statues and rocked it down a road a few feet.  They deliberately hid that those Easter Island statues go all the way under the ground to their feet. They're full size statues, not just the bits sticking up outside of the ground. And that's what they moved. So they fraudulently conducted a scientific experiment. There's a thousand of these Moai statues on an island that's small about the size of the island of white in England.  It's this, the ancient past, you know, that's why they want us looking at outer space.   But I know these two island statues, it's not on the hand, you know, polygonal walls in Peru exist. I want answers to that. I want answers to the bizarre huge animals under the sea that they found. And they go, no, no, no, look at the, look at the, look at the quasars and outer space. And that's almost like their gas line. They're saying, look over here.  The, I saw a fascinating documentary on the Easter islands and one of the theory, and this is where stuff doesn't make, you know, contradicts itself is one of the theories was these people were subsist with praying to their ancient ancestors from, I'm guessing from the land that they came from, whether that be South America or some other island and Polynesia, they say. Polynesia, yeah. And in that process of creating these statues, they chopped down all the trees on the island. And then as a result of that, they had nothing to, you know, sort of killed all the, you know, killed their source of firewood and source of building boats and rafts and this kind of stuff. And that led to their demise. Have you heard that one? Yes. And it's nonsense. And it's also offensive. You've been all over the world like me. Human beings do not destroy the place that keeps them alive. Yeah. This assumption that they were like some, and when I was a kid, right, in Ireland, in school, we were doing the history of the world and they showed us a 16 millimeter film of Julius Caesar landing in England and in Britain, and, you know, meeting the Britons, right? Now, this was in English films. They don't blame the Irish, right? This was from your school system, right? And there's Julius Caesar. He gets off the boat in the south of England, you know, and he's, you know, his toga and the big metal plate and all the legionnaires behind them looking fantastic in their uniforms. And literally they showed the Britons with animal skins on behind the sand dunes going like that. And we're still dealing with that.   In the temple of Gigantia in Malta, in the interpretive center, they show cartoon drawings of Homer Simpson-like characters building this ancient maleithic stone temple. And the guys are again, the animal skin thing, you know, like in carry-on caveman, right? And the guys looks like Homer Simpson. One guy's dropping the hammer, it's bouncing off the other guy's head. It's all gaslighting.  People in the past were idiots. And they all, you know, and they, if they did achieve anything, they just did it because they used our methods today. This comes out the colonious mentality. And, you know, that the old days, the old colonial empires of the world, going around the world and assuming that, like, you know, the everyone was savages that weren't them. And they applied that to history. It chinks you to like the Royal Geographic Society and so on. You know, it's incredible really. And, you know, what we just talked about then, the Easter Island thing. So here's one of the Easter Island. Those statues are buried up the here, right? There's not enough soil on Easter Island or organic material. And it is, it is, it is organic material to come up to here on these statues that go down to their feet. That is many thousands of years of acclumination of soil, right? Now, they say those statues are only about 1500 years old, max. Now, then I say to myself, no, that's that, there's not, there's too much soil there. There's too much soil there on a small island that's in the middle of nowhere. It's practically in point Nemo, the polar area of complete isolation, you know? It's, it's, it's, it, when you're on Easter Island, the nearest human beings to you are in the ISS space station overhead. That's how remote Easter Island is. So it wasn't organic material that blew from a nearby larger islands or anything. So you say to yourself, okay, it's volcanic ash maybe. The last volcanic eruptions on Easter Island were 100,000 years ago. Now you're gopening the Pandora's box because you can't carbon date stone. So it's Easter Island, 100,000 years old. And then this opens up all the whole thing about the Atlantis of the Pacific, and the Lemuria and all that other stuff. I'm aware there's different theories on evolution. I'm not here to upset anyone, folks. Just, just, I would say that whatever, we've been here for an awful lot longer time than I think history wants. I mean, the World Economic Forum, they want you to believe we came out the African Bar 80,000 years ago. And that's just like nothing in terms of changing our facial appearance. But also that there could have been many evolutions before us or civilizations that like you say, Thomas, develop this technology which to them was just like normal.  We don't know. We don't. And there's a tremendous amount of the gatekeeping goes on. There's a megalithic site near here, Karamor, where in the 1990s, they did the first full major investigation on this thing. And it's covered in Julian Komp's book, The Modern Antiquarian. And I know other people who work down there. And I used to hang out and sleep in that place years ago. And they finally opened it up and they got the holy grail of a carbon dating stand. There were Swedish research team that opened the thing up and there was two heavy slabs of stone on one on top of there. And inside the middle was some soil that was original to the build because there's no way I could have penetrated from it either the front or the back was completely sealed inside by accident, right? So that's the motor law. That's the stuff that whatever soil is in there and new carbon date back, that's the age of that those two stones are put together because there's no other way to get in, right? Because like normally what they normally do is they like stone hands when they reconstructed in the 1940s, they lift up the stone, take a soil sample from underneath and then that that carbon date assuming that the stone was placed on top of the soil. But what happens is bunny rabbits and worms and everything else messed the soil up underneath. So moles. So this was the motor law. This is what you want, right? The Swedish team carbon dated at 12,000 BC, 12,000 BC made a big announcement in the Irish media that we found the oldest megaliths in the world which they probably weren't because I bet Stonehouse is probably the similar period as well. And the Irish archeological people stood up and says, this is bad science, go back and get the right data. Yes.  And there's been massive gatekeeping in Egypt, isn't there? They've got their narrative and they want you to believe the pyramids are only, is it 4,000 years old or something? And there's no insight given into the fact that they could have been, they could have been there to create energy. With the old machines. They look like industrial complexes. It's very great. Have you ever heard the Harry Houdini story about underneath the Sphinx? Have you ever heard that story? Can you enlighten us? Harry Houdini approached an American writer, HP Lovecraft in the mid-1920s to write a story that he said actually happened. And Lovecraft, who became quite friends with Houdini, said that he was having me on, you know, having me on. But Houdini was great at everything, he wasn't a very good writer. His English wasn't his first language. So, I wrote Lovecraft, who was a fan of, wrote the story up and let's put up. Houdini claimed that when he was in Cardinal on tour, he had come into the circle of some kind of esoteric group, right?  Anyway, he woke up underneath the Sphinx inside the giant cavern. And encountered super beings that live inside the earth. Now, Houdini was a man known for debunking and, you know, exposing fraudulent mediums and all this kind of thing. And he swore to Lovecraft, it actually happened. Lovecraft said he's just having a laugh and putting me on. But if underneath the pyramids, and it's a great, it's an amazing story, it's online for free if you wanna read it. He found a subterranean world of non-human beings who originally claimed to have built all the great megaliths in Egypt. And the story is plausible, you know? It's like you read this and think, ah, come on. He says, was this the April 1st edition? But Houdini maintained to his dying day that he had this experience underneath the Sphinx. So who knows, you know, who knows that these, I often wonder, and while it is true, that these like advanced sort of like brotherhoods, you know, the high ends of all these secret societies. And, you know, we're into the conspiracy world now, but I'm very comfortable in the conspiracy world. I make no, you know, I, you know, from the time when I was a little kid and found that about JFK, I am not, I'm not, I'm very comfortable being called a conspiracy theorist in that sense. I don't want to run at all from it. But it's, I often wonder if these secret organizations, like the WBF, these kinds of people and all these weirdos that are in charge of the world, oh, weird, they're all weirdos. Well, you wouldn't have a point with them down the pub. You wouldn't go for a copy with them at lunch break. You're not a kind of a thing. And yet there's something fundamentally wrong with them. I often wonder if they're somehow taken orders from a non-human intelligence at times, because especially now, especially since 2020, they seem to have a loathing for the ordinary human being. I want to know where that comes from, you know? It's more than just snobbery and elitism. It's almost like there are different species at this point or see themselves that way. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, what fascinates me is how you network and once you see their network, and you see how cleverly they move people into visit, they've moved people into all positions of power. When you look at the enlightenment spectrum, highest form of vibration, energy, frequency, whatever we're going to call it, is love. It's the thing that gets you the best results in life. There's nothing to be got from living in hate and fear and anxiety, da-da-da-da. And yet, all the people in power, the world over, are dedicated to hatred. They're dedicated to destroying community, putting people in a box, controlling them through all kinds of fictitious narratives and false science and like trying to get too conspiratorial here, but it does make you wonder when you start thinking, when you hear people talk about interactions with aliens, and I'm really like my jury is just completely out on this folks, don't, you know, like show me some evidence, I'll be like, yeah, Roger got you, but just purely from the perspective of liking to look at all different theories and options and not necessarily putting all my chips on that square, but you hear, I think Robert Sepper talks a bit about, you know, was there some kind of alien life form that infiltrated the human species at some point, which gave us this huge leap forward in terms of intelligence from say, for example, our primate, the rest of the primates. And then you start to, when you hear talk of, you know, reptilians and cold blood, it's that cold bloodedness that we're seeing in society. This just literally like you can wipe out, I don't know, you know, 3000 people in an event, you know, got to be careful what I say here, but think of the events of the last 20 years folks, you probably know the one that I'm referring to, or you can send them all off to war. Yo, is this cold bloodedness, or is this just people that live so much in their ego and that they're almost sociopathic? Over to you, Thomas, is that? I don't buy the whole alien intervention thing. I don't even buy, I believe that there's any evidence that aliens have actually visited this earth. We really look into it. I mean, space aliens and spaceships, that's what I'm talking about, okay? And the evidence is just not there. And that Zachariah-Sitchin thing is very dodgy, the whole thing of like the Anunnakai, it's a very dodgy translation of Sumerian text. However, let's deal with something outside that one specific thing that fits nicely with Christians and their whole thing. Let's talk about every single indigenous culture and in Europe as well. Don't assume that this is native people around the world. Believe in another form of consciousness, another beings that exist outside the perception of humanity, right? I'll talk about the Irish thing, the fairies, right? People from outside of Ireland think that one, Irish people mention the fairies of very culture. They're talking about Tinkerbell and things like that. Within our folk tradition among the country people, not so much now, but like my grandmother's generation, right? They live in absolute terror of the fairies. They were called the S-I-D-H-A-S, the Irish, these were a malevolent beings. And if you saw one, you did everything to stay away from them. They kidnapped babies, they messed with people's lives, they were malicious, they were malevolent.  You get this all through folk traditions all over the world, the watiko of, and it's sort of the Native American tradition. It always seems to blend in with two things. One, they have the gin in the Islamic world. They have a dislike and almost like a vicious jealousy of humans. However, they have the ability in the Native American thing, watiko, or in the changeling and the Celtic fairy tradition, to infect the human possession. And these humans who are affected by this complementary consciousness that exists in another dimension start acting out the desires of the other side in this world. So about 10 years ago, I was at some kind of, it was kind of a spiritually new age thing in Dublin I was going to, and I just wanted to do that. Just to see what it's like. And I met in the bar, this guy, he was an African shaman and a little tech guy.  And he was knocking back pints of Guinness and stuff like that.  You know, tell me, like Eddie Murphy in training places. And I said, I said, I'm fascinated by psychopaths and psychopathology. And he goes, oh, yes, that's the demon world trying to invade this world. And you know what? That's one of the wisest things I ever heard in my life. And I think he was right. I think that these monsters you see on the TV, these billionaire, quote unquote, philanthropists have an element of non-human consciousness within sight of them.  And this can be even rationalized in atheism, if you think of consciousness as an unlocalized field that are bringing things like the quantum world and entanglement and things like this, that we're dealing with people who are not us, they're infected or something.  And we have to be dealt with accordingly. And that's exactly the mentality of someone that there's a video of Bill Gates and his former lady going on about deep, you know what? And he goes, and the next one will be even worse. And he looks at her and she looks at him. And they're like two kids who are planning to do a practical joke on people going. Yes.  Hillary Clinton after she found that Gaddafi had been murdered. Yes, we came, we saw, he died. Did it have anything to do with your visit? I'm sure it did. In the most horrific way, went live on television and was literally in a state of sadomasochistic, psychosexual psychosis, screaming, we came, we saw, he died. If that was you or me or your mate or someone there on the pub who behave like that in public, they'd be in the psych ward that evening and not us. Ah, Thomas, you bring up some great stuff, mate. You really do. A couple of things I want to say, let me just say three things just so we all can consider this. First off, I just want to say to our friends out there, like I've been a sociopath in periods of my life. When I was younger and I was trying to make sense of the world and I, you know, I went through, you know, I can look back now and realize I went through a period where I didn't care for other people. I thought this life is tough, it's dealt me a hard hand, you know, I've dealt with some stuff as a youngster that, you know, no one supported me.  But for intents and purposes, yeah, of course, I'm utterly sad that I ever hurt another human being, you know, and unfortunately, I came out the other side of it.  You know, I'm a great believer, take away the mainstream media, we all just bloody love each other because you can go into any bar in any part of the world, meet anyone from any nation and within, literally within 30 seconds, you'll turn around and go, all right, mate, where are you from? And you become, my experience in 85 countries across the planet is you become best mates within like 30 minutes, you know, and there's no phobias and, you know, religion and politics and da-da-da-da-da. So that's the one thing I want to say is that I luckily had the sociopath cracked out on me. I ended up in a police cell. I was very fortunate it didn't go any further and at that point I was like, oh, my God, what are you, what have you been doing, you know? So that was one thing. So with respect to like the Bill Gates of the world, I think they're in that mode where they're so hyped up on hubris and they're positioning life and the money that they don't have like the downfall that I had. I got banged up, that's enough.  You know, I was like stealing cars and stuff, folks, in case you're wondering. And it was wrong, you know? It was so, so wrong. But back then I so much justified it because like in my mind, these people hurt me. They hurt you, they didn't do enough. Anyway, that's one thing. The second thing, Thomas, is that I remember I put a post out a while back about addiction and I talked about going into psychosis from taking too much Christmas.  So you get these distorted thought patterns and narratives and someone wrote a comment and I don't forget it and it said, no, actually, Chris, what you've done is you lowered your defenses through, you know, through this behavior and you allowed the gin, you know, the demons from the dark side in. And do you know what, Thomas? I wouldn't argue with them. It's like that's basically exactly you start getting these thoughts in your head and they're not helpful. Fortunately, I had a few that were a bit bloody. One of them told me to go and throw myself off a crane into the harbor in Hong Kong. I thought that was a great idea. Looking back, it's probably really, really silly. So that was the second thing just relating to what you said. And the third thing I was gonna say is I read your book. I read your book on psychopaths. What's the title of it for everybody? Puzzling People, The Labyrinth of the Psychopaths. Yes, utterly fascinating again. I'm glad you said that because what you were describing is very much what I've laid out in the book. You know, this is from my own experience. I grew up in a very tough neighborhood on the north side of Dublin. So I was aware of the teenage joy riders, junkies and all that kind of carry on. And what I would call psychopathic, they came from bad homes. They had abusive parents and alcoholic father. A father wasn't there.  And then it was sort of like a moment that fixed them. Like they met a nice girl or their girlfriend had a baby and suddenly they became the productive, loving, healthy, normal person they were meant to be. They were made proto-psychopathic by either the abuse they had suffered or by the trauma they had inflicted through drugs, like, you know, heavy drug use. Things like sniffing glue would be very bad for that.  That's this hardly brain right here is concerned primarily with survival. It's fight or flight, killer, be killed, get laid, get dinner, get this kind of thing, make babies, blah, blah, blah. There's a section in this in the middle called the amygdala. And the amygdala is like the gearbox of the brain.  But what stops you from slapping her around in the bathroom or your lunch break is the amygdala kicks in like the gearbox of the brain and stops these electronic impulses from reaching the frontal cortex, you know. So you go, when you're messed up on drugs or you're very badly psychologically damaged, the amygdala doesn't work that well. And that's what lets the gene from here, the reptile from here, from here, okay? And it's that simple. Now, this did not explain when I got older and ended up living in New York and working on Wall Street and most of the investment, nearly all investment banks. How there were people there who were very cold-blooded, sadistic and could tell jokes and laugh about doing business in Central America that would destroy people's lives. And these all came from privileged. Now, first of all, I want to say, most of the people I dealt with on Wall Street are wonderful human beings. They're just ordinary people trying to make a living by their families, right? But you know that the types are out there too. How they came from well-off, comfortable, well-to-do backgrounds. They never suffered a day in their lives.  And they had no reason to be. And it was a sadism. There was a strong sadism element there. I stumbled upon the work of Dr. Robert Hare in British Columbia who studies psychopaths, mostly criminals, but not exclusively. And some other work, other authors out there and studies and discovered that there's an actual, well, there's a thing called what I call a proto-psychopath, which is what happened to you when you went on, when you went to your worst points, right? But that's not, that doesn't mean you're one of them. It just means that happened, something happened. The trauma caused that, right? The myth and whatever. Then there's ones who are born naturally like that. And if you put them under an FM or iScan, their brains are actually different. They actually have very little activity in the frontal cortex. And the synapses are firing through a much lesser degree. Now in your frontal cortex is where you process dreams, feelings of affection, feelings of compassion, this kind of thing. And so on for other people and understanding, the understanding, it's the part of the brain that has this understanding, that you can't be selfish, right? It's literally switched off in them. It's not broken, it's all there. It's not damaged, it's switched off. And they exclusively exist in the reptilian cortex at the back of the brain. Now, this is so interesting on so many levels. The studies were done that they wanted to know why, there's a very famous video of Ted Bundy and there's a few of them actually, the serial killer. When he's getting away with stuff and he thinks he has the court by the, because he was in court, he wanted to be seen. They all have this like grandiose thing that he taught when he was getting away, his eyes are gone like this. When the psychopath is going in for the kill, the eye is widened, like a reptile, right? Now, what they discovered was in one research was that at the back of the brain is the reptilian cortex, but it's also where the optical cortex nerves come back around and they're processed in the spinal cord at this point, the lower brainstem. And it floods with a chemical, a neurochemical called a norepinephrine. And the norepinephrine floods when they're in a state of flight or flight, floods in a psychopath in an enormous level, all around the lower brainstem and it excites the optical cortex and hence what our eyes call like that. And you can watch the Ted Bundy videos and see it in real time. And it's like, it answers, that's why I wrote that book because it answered so many questions for me about people I had encountered in my life in both situations.  And also these ones who were just monsters or predators all their lives. They're sort of Patrick Bateman in American Psycho. And I said, just not just, and it actually ironically happened from me reading books about serial killers while I was working in Wall Street and I was going, this kind of thing, you know, profiles and this information was too good not to share with the world because it helped me tremendously, you know, have being bullied at school who these people have bullied met school and things like that or things like that. And it made me realize and then fellows who bullied my school years later coming on with their arms around me said, how are you doing? I'm like, why is he nice now? You know, and I realized he was messed up from his childhood. And so that's where puzzling people came from. I just said, this is too good for people not to know, you know. You know, I've met people that have been affected by psychopaths. And oh geez, it really gets under people's skin, doesn't it?  Just, you've like literally picked the wrong person to try and gaslight, like, and what was the last three and a half years? Nonstop gaslighting. Wow, exactly. Yeah. And that's why those of us who were aware didn't fall for it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.  You know, it was literally, that's why I think that there was a, and a lot of credit goes to everybody in the old media, I think. I'm not just saying myself, but people like Alex Jones and David Ike, that made people cynical to the mainstream, you know, they deserve credit for that, you know, because they've planted the seed that made people say, I don't like UBBC and I don't like what you're trying to do to me right now. Now they're awful. And now they've got this, what's this, Mariana Spring, she's their special correspondent for, for one of her proper term is like for conspiracy theories. Rich Planet, I'm not sure if you're aware of his channel. I know the chap, Rich D. Hall, yeah. Yeah, Richard Hall. And he's just a nice guy doing his best to enlighten us and help us all go forward. And what they did to him and the way that they do it is so cheesily, sickeningly, like, if you see it, you see what they're doing, you can see the process. But of course the masses don't see it, you know, they... That was his payback. That was his get back for the work he did on the McCanns. That work he did on the McCanns was incredible. Yes, phenomenal. And that's when the wanted posters went up on that poor guy. Yeah. And the Manchester thing, just going to say Manchester thing, guys, that was the ax they used to chop him up with, wasn't it? Yeah, I didn't follow that too much, but when I saw that, and I saw the, when I finished a whole series on that child that went missing, I was like, they're going to come after this chap for this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It gets, you can see from the work he did there, it gets so deep. It's like my friend John Waters, the former like big mainstream journalist here in Ireland now turned maverick, says that a conspiracy theorist is the person doing the job that journalists used to do. Yeah, exactly.  Have you got several books? It's only the psychopath one that I've read. I'll give you a link to my sub-stack page, and that has links to everything. Okay. Also, I've got a, the channel that the movie documentary that you saw was because called Beyond Room 313 is on YouTube.  And yeah, so I've got like a link tree link as well. That gets, I've got so many sites and bits and bobs all over the place. But yeah, so I recently added a new book page to my sub-stack page. It's a, because sadly, one of the best book retailers, book depository, it was gone down and they were like, they were very fair to the people, their authors in terms of payment and stuff, but they've been wiped, they're getting wiped out. So that's kind of sad. But yeah, I'll throw to your admin guy, Billings. Yeah, if you can, mate, that'll be absolutely brilliant. Thomas, stay on the line just so I can thank you properly. But for the purposes of the recording, massive thanks for coming on the show. It's been long overdue, can we say? Yeah, so thanks very much, Chris. I've been catching up on your show as well and really enjoying it. So there'll be many more strings to your bow as well. Yes, definitely. And I look forward to really look forward to working with you in the future. To our friends at home, as always, I hope you got as much out of that as I did. Just remember, folks, you might not agree with me. You might not agree with... That is irrelevant. The fact is you've got two good guys here who are just talking and you can take the bits, you take the bits that help you. What you don't wanna do is throw the baby out with a bath war. I might have said one thing in there that upset you. Okay, I apologize, I'm sorry. I can't know everything. I can't know everything. And just going, oh, well, he just said that. You know, just support the people that are trying to do their best, folks, for all of us. Anyway, sorry, lecture over with massive, massive love to you, my friends. If you can like and subscribe, click the notification bell. Da-da-da-da-da-da, you've heard it all before. And we'll see you soon. Thank you.