Good afternoon, it's just an honor and a pleasure to speak today on behalf of all the educators in the International Educators Hall of Fame. This is the 25th year, the silver jubilee of this International Educators Hall of Fame. Why do we do it? Because there are so many educators who are unsung heroes. They are often pioneers, they are movers and shakers, they are creators, they are historians and they are humanitarian in nature. So we decided 25 years ago to honor some of the educators who are unsung heroes. We put out the request and people responded. They gave personal accounts to why this person deserved it. What are the criteria? One, you've been in the field of education at least 20 years or you're retired from the field of education and while there you did more than the call of duty. You don't have to say it yourself but people know if you fit that criteria. So many names came in, we never knew we were going to be doing it 25 years later. We've done it in Egypt 5 times, we've done it in Nigeria, West Africa 2 times, we've done it in Memphis, Tennessee, in the Bay Area, in Orange County and we started that many years ago right here in Sacramento and Orange County. So we want to say to everyone, say thank you to those educators that made an impression in your life, that motivated you, that inspired you and that you know in your heart they deserve to be thanked. Have a good day, we'll see you soon and please send us your nominations for people into the International Educators Hall of Fame. If you want to access on our website it is EducatorsHallofthame.org, EducatorsHallofthame.org. Have a good day, we'll see you, visit our website and don't forget to give donations. They help us do what we need to do, honor educators. Hello, my name is Travis Parker. I am co-founder of the Alpha Academy. Alpha Academy is a mentoring group for young men, age 18 or 12 to 18 and our main focus is African American young men and the reason we started the Alpha Academy, there were actually two of us. We learned myself and our fraternity gives scholarships to students and we noticed that we weren't getting as many young men as we were young women and so we had a tutoring session at Valley High School with several students, males and females and that's when we started the Alpha Academy. Then at our first session in South Sacramento we had two young men show up. They were my cousins, I had not seen them before that, well I saw them the day before at a funeral and then after that particular Academy session I never saw them again. They never came back and so we kept showing up to the Academy month after month and eventually the following started to grow and now we get from 30 to 40 young men once a month we do it during the school year from September to May. Formerly I was an educator at Cosumnes River College for 41 years. I coached soccer, cross country and track men and women and I taught contemporary problems of athletes and somebody might say, but what's a contemporary problem of athletes? One problem of some athletes is that they think they're going to make their living in athletics and for the vast majority of people who play athletics in junior high, high school or even college less than 1% of college athletes earn a living in athletics and for that small percent is that due they only do it for a number of years so by the time they're 30, 35 years old they're no longer in that vocation. The other thing I do presently is raise scholarships to give to young students and we do that through the Martha Parker Gospel Concert at Cosumnes River College. Thank you. My name is Samagda Perez and for me it's one of the greatest honors to be inducted into the International Educators Hall of Fame. I think as educators one of the greatest accomplishments or impacts that we can have is when we can help students reach their potential and then follow their careers and see them become excellent professionals. I think for me as an educator one of the most important accomplishments is to be able to talk to the hearts of the students who sometimes believe that they don't have what it takes to be successful in law school and then to guide them and watch them become not only excellent professionals but also to become mentors in those role models that keep young generations in the fields that are so greatly needed to help our communities. So I am very appreciative of the opportunity to be part of this amazing network of educators who put their heart and soul into ensuring that we have a future of young students who will continue to fight for our communities. Thank you. My name is Courtney Tesler and I've been a counselor for 44 years. Most recently I was at Davis Senior High School for 22 years and the last eight I was head counselor but when I initially started working as a counselor I worked with the migrant, the Papago, the Pima and the Navajo Indians in Casa Grande, Arizona. I also worked with disabled students. I was a drug and alcohol counselor. I worked with female offenders and I had a private practice for 15 years. My personal philosophy is that the whole field of counseling and education is very vibrant. There's a lot of opportunities to help students and adults to learn about the world around them and to navigate this world. Everyone has potential to do the best they can and be the best they can. We all have talents. We all have strengths and we all have weaknesses. Sometimes you need that counselor to help you to figure out exactly what those are and to problem-solve and put yourself in the right direction. Advice to young people, I would say to follow your passions, take time to really know what appeals to you, what your talents are. Give back to those who are less fortunate than you. As a world traveler, I try to inspire students to get out of the city they live in and to start experiencing the world and learn about different cultures. I wish to be remembered for the fact that I truly helped a lot of people. I care about people. I'm very genuine in what I've done. I have enjoyed learning about the world around me and I've enjoyed inspiring other people. My name is Willie Portas. I'm from Fresno, California. I was born February 3, 1949. I am an educator artist and I'm here today to enjoy the pleasure of some of the most important people in the world are those who are inducted here with me, to fellowship and to share a few of the things that I've accomplished. First of all, I graduated as a commercial artist, then I attended the University of Akron for Fine Arts. My vocational training was in commercial arts at Howard Vocational High. I finished all my graduate work in California in 2000 and in 1994 and it was 1994 in instructional leadership, a master's in education. I worked for three different school districts, the Century Unified School District. The West Fresno School District where I retired and I was recruited back to work at the Big Picture High School teaching students art that they may one day become professional if they desire it and my desire is to help them become the best that they can be in the visual arts. In conclusion, I hope to inspire these students to be the best they can be and my legacy is really to continue grooming them for the future in the commercial and fine arts because art is an absolute balance between left and right brain and while they figure it is not necessary, it is necessary to balance a child's development so I will continue to help the students throughout my life. Thank you. I live in Davis, California but I worked as a teacher in Sacramento City Unified School District where I retired after 36 years of teaching. I was nominated for the International Educators Hall of Fame by Neil Hollander, a friend who I worked with for two years while serving as vice principal at Luther Burbank High School in Sacramento. In 2013 I was inducted into the International Educators Hall of Fame. I was president of the Mexican American Concilio of Yolo County for 18 years while awarding 1,000 scholarships to high school and college students in Yolo County. I started with two scholarships in 1998 and increased the number until over 60 scholarships were awarded each year. Concilio serves 13 high schools and two colleges in awarding multiple scholarships to each school in Yolo County. The following schools were served Woodland High School, Pioneer High School, Cascade High School, Esparto High School, Winters High School, Davis High School, Da Vinci Charter Academy, King High School, Yolo High School, Delta High School, and River City High School. A Woodland Community College and UC Davis were the colleges that we've given scholarships to. The Concilio fundraised over $400,000 to pay for these 1,000 scholarships. I was a teacher for 34 years and a vice principal at Luther Burbank High School for two years during my career. I coached Varsity Soccer at Sacramento High School for 18 years, sending some 50 students to CSU Sacramento for playing soccer at Sac High. I helped them with their college enrollment, financial aid forms, and writing letters of recommendation. Not all graduated, but I know many did. As a special education teacher, all of my students passed the regular high school proficiency test, the same exam that all regular education students had to pass in order to graduate from high school. My special education students qualified to take an easier differential test, but I raised my standards and each student rose to the occasion. This lasted for 15 years until I left Sac High to become an administrator, a vice principal at Luther Burbank High School. Also in Sacramento City Unified. I was very proud of what these special education students accomplished, that is, passing the same test that the regular students did. I have been attempting to close the achievement gap since I started teaching. My passion was to help students who needed the most help. I went the extra mile because that's what I felt they needed. I not only told them I cared about them, but my actions spoke louder than words. I tutored them after school. I made phone calls to their parents because I needed parents support to help their children. I have always wanted to help the underdog. I have always wanted to help the voiceless. My model is, if you ask the right question to the right person at the right time, then anything is possible. There's no such thing as a bad question. I've lived in this, I've lived this model and have helped many along my journey. Now retired, I use the same model in my daily living, still helping people in need along the way. While awarding these scholarships to students, I always tell them to become a good teacher, a good lawyer, a good construction worker or whatever. We have too many mediocre teachers, lawyers, construction workers, etc. Dream big, aim for the stars. If you just hit the lamp post, you're on your way.  With hard work, determination and perseverance, you can succeed. You will meet many people along your life's journey, good and bad. Remember it is the people you meet along the way that a light bulb in your brain will light up. No one succeeds by themselves. You need to recognize these shining lights along the way. Many times you won't recognize the help that someone has given you until much, much later. It's never too late to remember to thank such a person. Finally, don't forget to give back to your community wherever you end up.  If everyone would do this, this would be a much better world. Thank you very much. I'm Dr. Jorge Garcia and I'm a Health Sciences Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine at UC Davis. My personal philosophy regarding education is to quote Cesar Chavez si se puede, that if there's education that can be taught, it can be taught to students and if it's done in the right way, they will learn that material. My advice to young people is that they take an inventory on the gifts and the talents they have and that they think very carefully about where they can best utilize those gifts and talents to hopefully find some mentors that will help to guide them on how to best use that. Some of the best pieces of advice that my mentors gave me was that you should envision your ideal job. So with as much detail as you can, create the job that you would love to do, that you would do for free, that becomes your roadmap for success. And so then it's just a matter of asking for directions, asking people how do I get there? What are the steps that I need to take? What are the experiences, the knowledge, the skills that I need? And then another beautiful piece of advice I got that if you want to be a winner, you join a winning team. So again, find the place that will set you up to succeed. And what I want to be remembered for, I hope to be remembered as a physician educator, as a person who loved and encouraged his patients and his students. And so I hope that I'll be able to make a few physician educators like myself over the years. I have been able to see some of my students go on to become professors. So that's been one of the greatest joys of my life. Thank you. Jack and Richard met at Eagle Rock High School in Los Angeles, California, 1947. They remained the closest of friends for the rest of their lives. Their parents were working class people. They learned from their parents the importance of always working for the underdog. Our parents were strong admirers of Franklin D. Roosevelt and the New Deal. We both found evidence that we had some Native American ancestry. With all these things in common, including the Democratic Party, it wasn't hard for Jack and Dick to find interesting issues to fight for and their lives developed. Jack and Richard were also musicians. Jack played trombone and Richard the piano. Their interest in the blues, boogie and Dixieland and progressive jazz led to the creation to forming a jazz group at high school. The interest in jazz led to a great respect for the contributions from African Americans. They found many sources of information that helped them understand and fight the dangers of McCarthyism. They walked precincts in 1952 in support of Adelaide Stevenson and became active in the South Pasadena Democratic Club. At that point, they were 18 years old. Jack and Richard went to Glendale Community College. Jack got a scholarship to USC and Richard went to California State University. Jack earned a PhD in anthropology and Native American studies. Richard a degree in history. Jack Forbes is the author of 17 books and many articles. He's one of the foremost experts in the world on Native American history and culture and a great advocate along with Richard for the curriculum in our public schools to better represent all of minorities as an intricate part of the story of America. Jack was responsible for the establishment of a Native American studies department at UCD. DQU was based upon the vision of a Penn Indian University drawn up by Jack. Richard taught classes and participated in the early movement for the establishment of DQU. Richard developed perhaps the first Native American Chicano studies class in the public schools of California at Davis High School. Both Jack and Richard never stopped working together for fair history standards in our schools and the rights of all peoples. Richard was a classroom teacher for 51 years in Los Angeles, Davis, UCD and Solano College. He also has two books of poetry. Thank you very much. I'm just 94, but my sister is 98, yeah. My sister, she's the oldest of, there were three of us. I had a good education and it was from a lot of education you get from the recreation department because we had, the recreation department was right across the street. Oh, West Oakland, that was a long time ago though. My legacy to the children now, learn all they can from their teachers and the recreation directors too because the recreation directors work with the mothers too. They work together, you know, the recreation and the schools all work together. Oh, and don't forget the church too, church, it doesn't matter what church, they're going to learn about one famous man and that's Jesus. So that's important too. Greetings. I am a Laidrian Mac and I am an early childhood specialist. I spent my early years as a teenager knowing that I wanted as a career to be a child development person. I always wanted to be in that field, so when I went off to college I decided I needed to know everything there was to know about very young children and I spent those years in college learning everything about the development of very young children and the kinds of areas that were important to their growth. I taught preschool for a couple of years and after that I taught college students, particularly college students who were interested in going into the field of early childhood education. This was probably one of my joys that I could encourage and support the needs of teachers of very young children. I later spent 15 years as the manager for education services for the Sacramento County Head Start program and I spent 15 years there also teaching teachers and teaching teachers throughout California and Fairbanks, Alaska for a short period of time. I also found at one point that I was invited to be part of a team to evaluate the credentialing program of one of the state colleges in the state of California. I was invited by the state credentialing office and I discovered that the kinds of things that I wanted for teachers of early childhood children was exactly what teachers were learning in their college experience. It was important for me to recognize what developmental areas the teachers need to support their learning and to support the work that they wanted to do. I also decided that as a retired person, how would I support the field of early childhood education? I have done that through professional organizations, specifically child development organizations. I have supported those organizations all over the country. But I also am finding now that there are other things that I think are becoming just as important to me. And that is the need to make sure that young people are being registered to vote, particularly young African American girls who may not think that they have anything that they can pursue. I need to get to those young women in our community to make sure that they realize that they have many options, but they must register, they must vote. And I expect to work in that area for the next election. I am also very fortunate, blessed to have some grandchildren that my husband and I spend lots of time with. And we want to make sure that they understand the reasons for voting. They're young now, but we want them to understand those reasons for voting. And we want them to understand the importance of service. So although I am retired from the field of child development, I am certainly in the area of teaching and training and loving helping our children become a part of this American scene. We all have our ups and downs, ways to deal with them and to bounce back. Bouncing back with community and resilience to work for me is a title of my book published last year by Amazon Books. I grew up in the Yakima Indian Reservation, surrounded a ton of up to Washington, over 100 Japanese immigrant families were farming on reservation land. Before immigrating to the Yakima Valley, my father was trained as a carpenter, including an apprenticeship in Japan's imperial palace in Tokyo. When this became known, the immigrant community called on my father to supervise building the auto-turbannics to the Waputa Buddhist temple needed for community activities. During the winter season, many farmers came to help, but with the spring planting season, I had to remain with a few townspeople. Our family got overgrown with weeds. Then one day, 50 farmers showed up harvesting root crops, trucking the harvest to the packer. My parents were very grateful, but their thanks were met by their comment that, you've been doing plenty to help us, it's our turn to help you. This is community. Community is people helping each other when one gets down, the other is pitch in. This lesson became part of my work, my outlook on my life, my teaching starting, starting the graduate program and community development in Asian American Studies. I have continued teaching and making other contributions to 25 years after retiring. These include facilitating the Central Valley partnership involving 150 immigrant groups from Mexico, Laos, Cambodia, Russia, and the Azores, the real development leadership network with real leaders of Native Americans, Latin, Latino, and African Americans through the country, and teaching a UC summer community course in Japan that put UC students working on community projects in the Kyoto-Osaka area. This is a book of my memoirs that includes many of the stories that I had hinted at in my discussion. So I'm Carl Mack. I've had a really interesting career related to education, and basically my parents, I was the oldest of three boys, and my parents really impressed us with the need to get an education. I was resistant to it in the beginning, but after spending some time in the service during the war in Vietnam, I realized how important it was to get an education. And upon my return home, I was recruited to attend the University of California, Berkeley, and with that opportunity, I took advantage of it, and I finished my bachelor's, my master's, and my PhD from UC Berkeley. Probably the most significant contribution that I feel that I've done in my life is I spent 22 years as a public school superintendent. I think part of my success, I believe, was that I had spent time as a manager and a consultant to various industries and companies and different types of organizations in the community. And so I knew a lot about management and running organizations and companies, but I did know about the ups and downs of being a superintendent, and I found it most inspiring and important work that I've ever done in my life. And part of the reward that I got was that I was able to see students who graduated from high school actually get enrolled at the local university, University of California Davis and Cal State Sacramento. And those students, a most interesting experience that I've had throughout my life is something like this. I would go and get lunch, and I would be at the, I don't know, it could be the Burger King or a restaurant, and some student would come up to me and say, or some person would come up to me and say, hey, aren't you Carl Mack? You were, you know, and I say, yes, well, you're the superintendent of my school district. And so I would say, wow, that's interesting, how's your life been? And they said, well, after I finished grant high school, I was admitted to San Jose State and so was my wife, and we both graduated from there. And now we're both attorneys because we finished law school and we're practicing law. And I can just tell you countless stories of me running across people who finished the schools in the district where I was superintendent. And I've actually had meaningful lives and are significant contributors to our society. And I feel proud that I was able to serve in that role. Sarah Hutchinson, Cherokee was born in Claremont, Oklahoma. She came to UC Davis as a Native American Studies faculty member in 1970, and her tenure with the Native American Studies program spanned almost 25 years. As one of the founding faculty in the Native American Studies program, she was the only woman during the formative period of the academic program. As such, she provided a unique balance to the other amazing faculty who shared her drive and dedication in building Native American Studies into a rigorous academic program. From the early days, Sarah pushed to build a solid academic curriculum and a critical mass of students so that the fledgling Native American Studies program that was tucked into the Department of Applied Behavioral Science could become its own Native American Studies department. As an educator, Sarah's teaching style was creative, holistic, and interactive. She recognized each individual student's best learning style and made sure that her courses supported and challenged her students. Classes always included both traditional and modern texts, themes, and perspectives. She was especially emphatic that students learned the value of seeking out primary sources in their research, including the preservation of oral histories, Native languages, and tribal traditions. She taught students interview techniques, audio recording, and transcription, and encouraged videography as that technology became more accessible. Research and writing were two elements. She pushed elements to master not just for academic excellence, but for the preservation of our cultures. Over the years, dedication and commitment to the Native American Studies program was manifest in many creative ways by the founding faculty. For example, when the program was threatened because of low class enrollments, Sarah initiated a course enrollment recruitment plan that included building a bridge with the UCD Athletics Department so that athlete scholars would know about the offerings and the great faculty that Native American Studies offered. It didn't hurt that she also sent homemade sweetbreads to the coaches and faculty there, along with course flyers. Her lifelong love of college football and UCD football in particular was very well known. Sarah had no problem engaging the coaches and players to facilitate their support to Native American Studies. It was a very creative solution that helped students get needed credits and Native American Studies to grow through a tough period of time. Besides teaching, challenging, and engaging courses, Sarah invited Native American leaders, activists like Dennis Banks and many other elders to speak to her classes. Sarah provided hands-on learning experience in the outside community as well. For example, she brought students along when she attended the Thanksgiving sunrise ceremonies on Alcatraz Island. Sarah also strongly encouraged civic engagement by Native American students, often encouraged students to become involved in student government, political advocacy, or campus protests for human and civil rights. Sarah was a unique faculty member because she also brought her professional counseling skills to a fledgling Native American Studies program and a UC campus with very few Native American students. Her professional skills as a marriage and family counselor served the program well and she was often sought out when students were struggling with personal or family issues. And without a doubt, Sarah often became a mediator when there were disagreements between faculty. Her doors were always open both on campus and at her home just north of campus on Oak Avenue. Countless students and others sat on her back porch under the annual canopy of large leafy ground vines and benefited from her teaching, counsel, and wisdom. Students, colleagues, and many others on campus today are truly fortunate to have had Sarah Hutchinson teach, counsel, and we all continue to benefit from her great dedication to helping create a strong and lasting Native American Studies program at UC Davis. Thank you. Hello, my name is Holly Cooper and I teach at the law school here at UC Davis School of Law and I've been teaching for about 20 years and we teach students about prisoner rights. We educate students about how to defend the rights of prisoners, immigrants who are also detained, and we also work on the juvenile justice system. And so the students, I've probably educated over 100 students who are now lawyers who are fighting for social justice and that's kind of me in a nutshell. So thank you for this opportunity and this award and hopefully we can continue to educate our youth to empower incarcerated. Thank you very much. My name is Doris Mangrum and I was inducted into the International Educators Hall of Fame in 2018.  I'd like to talk about the importance of leaving legacy. Our days are numbered and we should be living our lives as if our last one could happen any day and it should be important that we don't worry so much about possessions but the quality of our lives. And in doing so, it's important for us to do a few things and I believe that we should do, do not try. If try is in your vocabulary, it should be only to try longer, try harder and try until we get it done. And we must convert the storms of opposition into our winds beneath our sails and the sails beneath our wings however that one goes. And so we should find ourselves and make a decision. Understand that it's never too late to do the right thing. It's never too late for your dreams to come true. The other thing that you want to do is to create impeccable boundaries with friends, with associations, with things that you do, with choices that you make. When you create those impeccable boundaries, it will impact the legacy that you leave. One of the crucial things is to not allow people to stand in your way, in the middle of your dreams. If someone is saying to you that you cannot do a particular thing, step over them, step under them, step around them, but move forward. So understand that because our days are numbered and the most important one is the one that we are going to have at the end when it's all said and done, what people say about us, it's important to remember those things. So I hope that you will create the legacy that you want and that your life will be a quality one and that everything that you have dreamed of, you will have it and that you will convert your storms into opportunities and great things to happen for you as you move forward. Again, my name is Doris Mangrum, Correctional Educator for 35 years. Hello, my name is Kevin Russell Gibbs and I just want to tell you a little bit about my story, my journey in life and as you all know, everybody has one but I just want to give you a brief synopsis of mine. I grew up in Youngstown, Ohio, went to Catholic schools up until the 9th grade. My family moved to Georgia, Columbus, Georgia to be exact and went to my first public school and when I got there I was really amazed because most of the people in my high school were people who wanted to go to college and that was very different and especially people of color. There was a pride in the South that was very manifested in the character of the people.  After that I've been an entrepreneur ever since. I am a pastor, I'm a chaplain and also I am a businessman. I have a business which is called a BPA, business professional administrator and I do the same thing as AAA, give people license plates and stickers and stuff like that so they don't have to stand those long DMV lines. I've owned a mortgage company and a consulting company and so many other things I've done but if I could leave you with one thing it would be this, don't be defined by your culture or your ethnicity.  Leaders are not made, leaders are born. They just don't know it at the time until they're confronted with a situation that brings that leadership out in them and I want to say to you don't be defined because you may have been poor when you grew up or your skin color, your pigmentation in your skin. Many people define themselves that way but you shouldn't because what you are is not your pigmentation. What you are is not your upbringing. What you are is not what people say about you. What you are is what you desire to be. What's intrinsic in you and that should be the thing that you should zero in on and focus on and do all you can to make that sharpen those skills so you can be the best at what you do. I like to think of myself that way and I didn't get there alone. There were people who helped me along the way so don't begrudge people who try to help you get where you need to be. You have to know, first of all you have to figure out what it is that you want to be. You have to know who you are. Once you define who you are and where you want to go then you will begin to associate yourself with people who are in that particular field or mindset that they can encourage you on your journey. So you have to be wise as well. You have to align yourself with people who are going in the same direction that you are going. If you want to be a lawyer you don't spend a lot of times with people who want to be counselors although being a lawyer somewhat is like a counselor but more specific than that.   My name is Albert Wilson. I have retired from the Air Force 20 years and 6 months, 24 days, 3 hours, 35 minutes and 40 seconds. Retired at the age of 38, graduated from high school and excelled in electronics. While in the Air Force I served in Germany for a year and a half, two and a half years in Italy and taught the Italian air to ground communication and mobile communication for the armed forces. I spent three years in Turkey on a special mission regarding invasions in the Middle East and also I was called to duty in Vietnam and also in Thailand. I spent well over two years there and also a year in Korea. My last overseas assignment was the Philippines of a chief engineer of the Armed Forces Radio and TV service worldwide. I controlled Channel 8 and covered the Apollo mission back in the late 1900s. My last assignment was in Hollywood for four years during the program for the Armed Forces worldwide recording sport package information from the White House and distributed to the Armed Forces around the world. Once I retired from the military I proceeded to learn license in the state of California for real estate and marketing. Governor Duke Majin appointed me as chairman of the Martin Luther King Holiday Foundation prior to any state being one to celebrate the birthday California was first under my chairmanship along with Governor Wilson. I also built the largest health club in the state of California over 150,000 square feet under one roof with a full Olympic size pool tennis and I'll set up training for small businesses and incubator how to be successful in America to own your own business and be very successful. I've taught well over 150 different businesses very proud to be a part of the international coalition for education under Dr. Pat. I'm the chairman of the board and have been for over 33 years. Thank you very much.


Hello and welcome back to another episode of Physics Partner. Today we are going to discuss the first law of motion famously known as Newton's first law of motion. Newton's first law says that an object at rest will remain at rest and an object in motion will remain in motion with the same speed in the same direction unless acted upon by an external force. This means that for an object to change its state of motion, something must act upon it. Let's take examples of this law in our daily lives. Have you ever wondered why objects don't move unless you act upon them? This is because of the first law of motion, this is also called inertia. For example, a park car will not move unless an external force like pushing or pulling is applied to it. Another example is a book laying on a table. It states there unless an external force is applied to it. In fact, every object we see around us is following this law unless there is an external force acting upon them.  This is because of the first law of motion. The ball keeps moving until an external force, in this case friction opposes its motion and stop it. This law also explains why seat belts are important when you are in a vehicle. When a car suddenly stops, the passenger continues to move at the same speed but in the opposite direction. This sudden change in motion can cause serious injury or even death. The seat belt supplies an external force that stops the passenger motion before any damage is done. To sum up, Newton's first law of motion is an important concept that we come across every day. Objects at rest stay at rest. An object in motion is staying motion until an external force acted upon them. So I think it's enough for today.


So Josh, thanks a lot for coming, for our interview with the car, right? It's kind of been wild. So we wanted to talk to you a little bit about, let's start with the, what's it called, contributors. Contributors, yeah. Yeah, so one of the events that always happens at the beginning of KubeCon is the Kubernetes Contributors Summit. Right. This is run by my CIG, my committee in Kubernetes called CIG Contributor Experience, in order to have a place for Kubernetes contributors, in this case about, it was 150, 200 Kubernetes contributors to get together and discuss what they're working on, in also two different ways. So we had discussions about the process of proposing major changes and discussions about, you know, whether or not we should change the platform that we used to publish the docs. Okay. And a big discussion in one of my personal favorite areas, which is the stateful application of the Kubernetes. Gotcha. Because it's always been a bit of a challenge. Although frankly it's been a bit of a challenge because stateful applications are always a bit of a challenge. Right, right. Yeah, the whole reason for that HTTP thing was to try to avoid that. So, yeah, so everybody gets together and we have all these different discussions throughout the day about, you know, and honestly for a lot of people it's just a chance to meet face to face because, you know, you're on Zoom calls in chat with somebody for like a year straight. Right, totally. And it's really super helpful for seeing people face to face. See, some of the university actually did a study and this was around, I think they covered the Linux and MySQL and PostgreSQL communities because it was back in the Outs. And they showed that the number of arguments on mailing lists decreased dramatically for like three, four months after an in-person event. No way, really? Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting. I still remember, like, and this is, you know, but I still remember a guy who worked on a remote team, team was all fully remote and this was like 20 years ago. So like, it was really unusual to have a remote team, but it was at Oracle and on a quarterly basis part of their commitment to, like, because they wanted this team to exist and be remote was that on a quarterly basis they put them all together in the same place for, you know, like a week, I would say. And I think it makes a huge difference just to, you know, get some of that in-person thing, especially if you've never physically met. It's even harder. Yeah. I mean, part of it is honestly it's just easier to trust other people if you've met them once face to face. Yeah. Yeah. No, I totally get that. It is, and I think that's one of the things that we're really experiencing, you know, with the pandemic and everything else. We're starting at the hang of. Well, that's cool. So tell me some more about stateful applications. So. I mean, aside from our opinion of the bot. Yeah. Well, this is a pain about the. So we were actually discussing this in the session, that sort of thing, talking about things that we still wanted to do in Kubernetes for stateful applications because we had sort of a couple of first cuts, which is stateful sets and CRDs and operators, but nobody is really satisfied with that because there's a whole bunch of problems with real life stateful applications that it doesn't leave solved, right? Because, I mean, first of all, they're all different kinds of stateful applications, right? Databases get a lot of press, right? But file storage, caches, information stores, authentication stores, there are a whole bunch of other stateful kinds of stateful applications that have different needs from databases and databases have different needs from each other, right? So you need this whole, this huge amount of customization, which led us to things like CRDs and operators, but the problem with an operator is that you are basically writing your own infrastructure software, right, or using something written for somebody else to attach that to Kubernetes, and Kubernetes is not really providing you with a framework except a place to attach that plug in. And so as a result, we have this whole marketplace of database operators and other stateful applications operators that are in what we call the operator framework level one, phase one, right, which is it's a sort of initial cut that is usable in production, but it's missing a lot of instrumentation and maturity and life cycle management and that sort of thing. And so the feeling really is that we should come up with a way within Kubernetes for Kubernetes itself to supply more of a framework for those other things. Right, right. We should be more involved with the infrastructure for operation in a sense, yeah. Yeah, and so one of the things I was thinking about is somebody who is a long-time stateful applications person with a long history in databases is that part of the problem here was, goes, proceeds Kubernetes, right, because if you look at before Kubernetes existed, before Docker existed, the stateless applications were already being fully automated through configuration management. And so in a lot of ways, moving those applications to Kubernetes was just a matter of porting the existing patterns we had in configuration management into the new world of container orchestration. Right, right. The stateful applications were not being automated by configuration management as a rule. And so there was no previous implementation to port. This is why you had so many database administrators who were really specialized in a particular database and everything else, yeah. And it was a harder problem, right? It was the reason why it hadn't been done yet was people were like, let's solve the easy problems first, which is exactly the right thing to do. Right. They just hadn't gotten to the really hard problems yet. Yeah, totally. And so you think that, so how or do you have any ideas about where that might land, like how would Kubernetes get more involved in kind of those stateful components without losing its own flexibility? Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of sort of separate areas to address. One of the ones that I personally worked on is resource management, which where I'm working with the people who are in runtimes, right, because now we have C Groups v2. We have more control over resource management on the individual machines, but at the same time, and this is another meeting at the Contributor Summit, right, the runtime people all met up, and by runtime I mean like Cryo, Container D, et cetera. They all met up to discuss future direction of runtime, and part of that was where should resource management live because a lot of how Kubernetes interacts with the container runtimes was built around Docker, and a lot of that was some really ugly workarounds because Docker was not designed to be controlled by an orchestration system. Now that Docker is no longer supported, they can get rid of those workarounds, and so the runtime people were discussing, okay, if we're getting rid of these workarounds, what should we be doing instead? Right, what does right look like? Yes. Yeah.  You can use it to run a cluster with thousands of nodes, et cetera. Most of the big problems are solved. People are moving on to doing platform engineering and developing stuff on a stack above Kubernetes, right? So Kubernetes should be in maintenance mode now, and it's really not true, right? Because no, now we're going to do the stage of it's time to refactor all the things that we tried three years ago that turned out to be bad decisions. Right, right. Or kind of to your earlier point, right, also get to some of the hard stuff, right? You know, you made decisions early on to like, well, let's avoid this problem for later. Yeah. And now it's probably a good idea to actually address the problem. I think that's one of the things that I think is like, I appreciate about the Kubernetes project and is one of those problems that you see in a lot of mature projects is like, okay, when you're mature, do you recognize the fact that that doesn't have anything to do with being done or do you kind of just, you know, like keep making your mature thing faster, right? Like, I appreciate that. I think Kubernetes in a lot of ways is saying, okay, we've got a certain level of maturity. Now let's go back and address the next problem. Not how do we just refine the thing that we have? Yeah. Which is, you know, I think a much preferred route, at least for me. Yeah. Well, and I mean, I like Kubernetes' approach, right? And it's honestly one of the reasons why Kubernetes kind of won out over MISOs was that MISOs immediately went for the hard problems.  To contribute at all. In order to use MISOs even for simple tasks, right, right out of the gate. Because it was addressing the really high-end use case. There wasn't a, gee, I have five nodes and I just want to run containers across those five nodes. Right? It was, with MISOs you were instantly going for the thousand node cluster. Right. Oddly I thought with MISOs actually is that, and it felt like they were targeting the individual developer in their early stage like, you know, here's how to get started or whatever. And I was always very much that in the sense of I feel like I'm doing a really heavy lift to get my stupid thing to run. Yeah. You know, and I just always thought that was kind of interesting. But yeah, so Kubernetes has been doing some interesting stuff there. That was, we were going to talk about, well, we were going to talk about history of Kubernetes a little bit. Yeah. Which I think would be kind of interesting. Because now, right, we're kind of saying, okay, here's the next, almost like the next stage of Kubernetes. Yeah. But if we talk a little bit about what happened before, you know, we're, at least I was joking around about, I've been doing container stuff since like 2012.   You know, so what, how do you feel about what's your, what's your interesting stories about the history of Kubernetes? Well, the, I mean, so one of the things for a lot of people listening to this who got into Kubernetes later on is that, like, if you look at it in retrospect, it was obvious that Kubernetes was going to win and become a default. Right. It certainly wasn't at the time. Right. It definitely wasn't at the time. I really thought Swarm was, was really going to take it for a while there. And well, so here's one of the things, because it was one of the goofy things, right? Is that you had Swarm, which was making a developer friendly play, right? Because that's what Docker was good at. Right. Right. Exactly. And you had, and you had Mizo's who was coming in from the high end, right, is we're going to run all the workloads, including the hardest thing we're going to replace Singularity, which was an orchestration system specifically for HPC, and that sort of thing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've never worked with that. I think I've heard of it. And Kubernetes was in the middle. Mm-hmm. And the thing is, if you're in the middle, you never know if it's the, you only history tells you is that the happy medium, or the undesirable middle, right? Right. Right. Right. If you look at it a different way, like for example, if you compare this to my history of databases, right, when the new non-relational databases emerged on the scene, like MongoDB, et cetera, it put MySQL in a bad position when there were kind of sandwiched between MongoDB and PostgreSQL in terms of their market and being, and losing users from both sides. Right. Right. And that could have been Kubernetes, right? Mm-hmm. But it turns out that Kubernetes was the happy medium. Right. Right. It turns out that in fact, Kubernetes was giving people just enough orchestration to solve the problems that they had in 2016. The, and Mezos was too hard and too complicated, and Swarm was too limited. Right. Right. And, you know, and things could have gone a very different way. I think if DCOS had come out much earlier than it did, that might be what we're using now. Huh. The, because that was actually pretty nice. They solved a lot of the sort of UX problems that Mezos had by providing, in implementation of Mezos that satisfied a very common use case. Right. Right. Which one of these, actually I've talked about it in a bunch of these interviews. It's like one of the challenges I think that people who are deep, dark inside of like building, you know, Kubernetes or whatever is that it's so difficult to wrap your head around when you're talking, when you're building distributed systems, not having a visualization is very, very difficult. Because you, the kind of the goal is that you don't really know how the whole thing works. And sometimes as an engineer, you kind of need to get a tighter picture than that.  Yeah. And, and I don't know the solution to that because the problem is that the visualizations in the abstractions are, are helpful, but they're also damaging if you follow me. Right. Right. Because the problem is I think people look at them as almost like reliable when they're, when they're not really, they're more like a hint about what's going on, not necessarily what's going on. Right. And it's like Schrodinger's box. Yeah. Well, and we have this problem all the time with relational databases, right, is that people would use entity diagrams, right, you know, or other ORM tools as their way into the database. And that was nice, but that's not how the data is actually being stored. Right. Right. And that's the gap between your representation and how it's actually happening. And particularly, particularly there's a tendency of abstractions to reduce distributed computing to sequential, to procedural logic. Right. Which it really isn't, it very specifically isn't. Or if it is, you're doing it wrong. Yeah. And, and this actually goes back to one of the hard things to teach people, which is, you know, how do you teach people to really understand concurrent execution? Right. Yeah. Because that was always, it was in the database world that was a battle for us, because all the time people would be saying, oh, we're trying to debug it and this transaction is doing this and this other transaction is doing that, next. And I'm like, no, no, there is no next. Right. Right. You have 16 cores in this machine, those are happening at the same time. Right. Right. And you can never actually determine the order in which they happen in any reliable way. Right. So, the, and then when you throw that across all which computers like we do for Kubernetes, that's really true, right? Right. Because you don't even have, unless you have a very expensive setup, you don't even have clocks that you can rely on for with any level of precision. Yeah. Right. The, you know, the, you know, if you're really looking down at the microsecond level, you don't know what order things happened in and that really needs to not matter, but it's, it's hard for people to wrap their hands around. And this is the funniest thing I find about this too, is that people also have a really hard time getting their head wrapped or an event driven architecture, yet event driven architecture actually simplifies most of this conversation. Right. Because you know the thing, the order of things because it's by when the event occurred. So you don't necessarily know whether this event occurred before that event, but you know that when this event fired, this thing happened. And then when that event fired that thing, you know, like, so I don't know. I find it easier to wrap my head around a distributed system when you think about it in terms of events rather than a series of like services that call each other. Yeah. Well, at least up until you need to debug something. Well, right. It's particularly something involving a lock. Right. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I remember those nasty things in databases as well. It's, it is, it is the hardest thing because, you know, I fixed a number of bugs in post-president involving lock handling. Mm-hmm. And the, you know, the narrowing down the, the actually having to figure out the simultaneity of it. Right. In order to figure out what was going wrong. Well, and or, or like what's the cheapest lock you can get away with. Right. You know, that's the other big part of it. Looks like there's a race happening over there. Yeah, there is. We did go buy a soccer game. Yeah. Earlier, which I appreciate it. This is awesome. Yeah. This is really nice. Yeah. So thank you for taking me on this drive because that line was kind of my list for Detroit. Yeah. And I did not get over here on Saturday. Well, here you go. So, so yeah. So that's it. And that becomes a hard thing right for, because that is honestly right. There's a lot of, you know, sort of UI complexity for Kubernetes, right? Mm-hmm. Because honestly we're just getting away from the whole stage of developers writing YAML files. Mm-hmm. Right. Which is really not where we should be in terms of developer interface, right? Right. And we should be writing stuff in their own languages, and the YAML file should be produced by a tool. Right. Right. The, and we're getting that, right? Because we now have all kinds of UIs and code ready and we have now people are getting into serverless stuff. Mm-hmm. And, you know, which provides a more developer-friendly layer there, right? Right. But that doesn't take away from a developer particularly right if they're now getting into K-Native and serverless and event-driven programming, needing to wean themselves off of sequential thinking. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I still remember like a guy I've worked with. It's funny. He's worked for me. I've worked for him. We've been peers, you know. It's kind of weird how that, I don't know about you, but I never expected that kind of thing to happen in my career. You know, but it's like I've had all of these relationships with this one person, but I still remember him like giving me a super hard time because of I had a racing thread problem in some code I had written.  I'm like, yeah, there's obviously a race condition right here.  And it's also very difficult to test, you know. So I think that's also part of the challenge. So you're enjoying the allow. Yeah. Did you notice? Oh, yeah. So there's a lake in the middle of the island, which I think is weird. He's like, if you think of an island, I expect there to maybe be a pond, but I don't know, a lake seems too big to be in the middle of the island. No, no, no. Because really, if you think about it, we think of like land and water as being separate and that's like a bathtub. But really what we're seeing there is the exposed water table.  Totally. Yeah. It's actually the other way around. It's the land poking up, not the water filling in. Yeah. All right. So talking about KubeCon, so you did the contributors summit. Yeah. That was yesterday, right? Yeah. I don't know what day it is. The day before that, I did a little event called Cloud Native Rejects. Okay. It's a fun little event where talks are not accepted for the main KubeCon. Got it. Can apply to go there and they pick a sort of curated group of talks. Nice. And we go see them. And for somebody who's very involved in running KubeCon as a show, I really enjoy Reject simply because I don't get a chance to attend a lot of sessions at KubeCon. Yeah. That's right. Totally. Because I'm just way too busy with so many other events. Yeah. And meetings.  So plus, Rejects can have things that maybe don't have as broad appeal. Right. But as somebody who's involved in Cloud Native Development are much more interesting to me personally. Right? Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. As the more I get into something, I start to be much more interested in the more esoteric stuff. I think because it's like, that's the stuff I haven't even thought about yet. You know? I don't know. It's cool. I completely agree. I gotta check this out. I don't think I knew about that. Yeah. They'll be having ones before Amsterdam and before wherever we are next year in North America. Yeah. Cool. So... So that was what? Sunday? Yeah, it was Sunday. Gotcha. And before that Saturday I went to the Van Gogh exhibit. Oh, nice. The Detroit Institute of Art. It was awesome. Yeah, I really wanted to go. It was really amazing. Yeah. I've heard very good things about that art museum in general. The... Yeah, it's a really excellent art museum in general. And this exhibit was... I think it's the biggest exhibit of Van Gogh's work that has ever toured the U.S. Yeah, it's touring. I think it was either in Boston or it's coming to Boston. Yeah. Well, I think the museums are getting it are the ones that actually have artworks that are part of the... Oh, collection. Gotcha. So... Yeah. So they'll loan them out. Yeah, so it would not have... It's not coming to Portland, for example. Right, okay. So this was my one chance to see it. Yeah, so it was cool. Yeah, that's awesome. The... Yeah, and so then today is other sort of co-located events, etc. For me it was a whole day of meetings. The... And one interview in a car. And one interview in a car, right?  Yeah, I think we're both going to that. Yeah. So I guess are we kind of answering questions or are we just kind of saying this is the table for this thing or... Yeah, no, it's for discussions. It's for discussions, right? There's a lot of people there who are implementing things. Right. And they'll have questions, right? And maybe someone will have questions about stateful applications in Kubernetes. Right? Exactly. So, yeah. And then the rest of the week is kind of being Kubernetes. So... Or being KubeCon. Right. Which is huge. I am not this year. Which I am just chuffed about. Yeah. Because... I can't... Like when I run the little conference I run the desktop, I can't imagine trying to give a talk of that thing. Yeah, no, but I had a lot of fun. I coached four or five different speakers for the KubeCon. Nice. Of whom three are brand new speakers. Oh, cool. And I really enjoy doing that. And I really enjoy us, you know, having new speakers, right? And not just the same people. Right. Giving talks all the time. Yeah. No, I definitely agree with that. It's... You know, it kind of goes back to... You know, I was talking to somebody earlier, Savita, maybe, about, you know, it's like, I think inclusion is important and a really good thing and it provides a lot of new perspectives. But in some ways it's also kind of selfish because, like, I want all of those new perspectives because it helps me. Yeah. Right? And, you know, you talk about like a new speaker when you have a brand new speaker, whenever they're coming with a new perspective that I may not have thought of before when they present, you know, some content that maybe I understand the content, but they're coming at it from a different lens, you know, and it just doesn't, you know, so I really like that. And it gets really important when we're entering whatever we're on right now, year seven, something like that, of Kubernetes, where... Like, we know that there were a bunch of assumptions built into Kubernetes originally that were based, that were circumstantial, right? Mm-hmm.  Mm-hmm. But we're so used to them, we're not going to recognize all of them. Right, for sure. And having a new person show up saying, you know, hey, we could just do this thing instead. Right. And we're like, well, you know, hey, wait a minute. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right, right.  It's like that race convention, right? Yeah, yeah.  Yeah. But, yeah, when you have, I mean, so, you know, the beauty of open source, right, is the, you know, the many eyes thing.   You want to have, when you run a conference, you want to have a group of people who want to come, right? And the way you get that is by having big name speakers. So it can be really difficult to also include, you know, brand new speakers, but otherwise you never get any more big name speakers. Yeah. Well, and one of the things I've liked about KubeCon is even as much as it becomes sort of a large commercial conference and stuff, they have stayed dedicated to inclusion and trying to attract new speakers and everything else. Right. Because like, two of the new speakers I was coaching are actually going to be giving keynotes. Oh, wow. Cool. Nice. Yeah. So the, and, you know, and that's not taken for granted, right? I remember back when I was working with some of the old IDG conferences and stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah. We had to fight them tooth and nail to get them to include anybody new. Right. Right. The, and so I really appreciate that as sort of a tenet of the sort of spirit of KubeCon, right, is that, you know, we are going to have change and we are going to have new people. Right.  Right. Yeah.  Which I think is pretty cool. One of the, the other sort of interesting things in the horizon that you'll see happening in the KubeCon program and stuff is, is wasm, of course. Oh, right. Yeah. Totally. The colors. Yeah. Really interesting. Yeah. That's one of those things where, like, do you remember when aspect programming first started coming in? Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's, you see it, it's mostly in Java these days, but it's the same kind of concept with wasm or can be. One of the, that's one of the models, right? Like Envoy uses. Yeah. It's basically they're essentially doing aspect programming except using a wasm to deliver it kind of along the wire, but kind of wasm being everywhere has some really interesting possibilities and characteristics.  But so, yeah. So is there anything specific coming up with wasm that you want? Well, because right now, because we're talking about, because obviously for this this conference and that sort of thing, one of the part of the concern, you know, thinking about this is like, hey, you know, what about server-side wasm? Right? You know, WASI and that sort of thing. And then how do we run that on Kubernetes? Because we just had this whole like discussion with somebody at Rejects who's working on one of the wasm based platforms. Okay. And, and, you know, and they were talking about some of the problems that they're trying to solve for server-side. And I'm like, you know, Knative actually already does all of that. It kind of feels like we just need a way for Knative to run wasm. Yes. Yeah.  Right. Right. The. Yeah. That seems very plausible. Mm-hmm.  Mm-hmm. But, not exclusively containers. Well, right. I mean, people are, you know, the people are running VMs in it, right? Right. Yeah. So. Containers are the abstraction that we have. Right. And, and there's a lot of trying to reuse it to something that looks like a container. Yeah. But, but that's one of those things that you reevaluate all the time, right?  Right. The, and, you know, and can we make other things that look sufficiently like containers? Right. That they can. Particularly, and, and not make it like bespoke, right? Right. Not make it something that has to be hand configured. Right. The, and up until now, there's been a lot of focused on doing that with VMs. Mm-hmm. Right. From the other end, because there's times that, you know, you want to use a VM rather than, a container. Right. You know, not just, I mean, a lot of folks have been in the legacy use case. Right. You know, where you have applications that are already optimized for VMs. But there's also other use cases where. If you want vertical scaling.  You have very rigorous information security requirements. Yeah. Where you need to have something that doesn't have side effects. Right. So I really like NRX. Have you seen the NRX product? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the, yeah, and for that matter, right, if you want to link into CP level encryption. Right. You know, all of these sorts of other things. But there's no reason that we can't do this at the other end, right? Mm-hmm. And look at things like WASM and stuff and say, okay, well, on the one hand we can go sort of heavier weight than containers and have VMs that Kubernetes treats like containers. Right. It tends to treat the VMs more like pods. But what about taking, you know, basically a binary executable which ultimately a container isn't executable. Right. And... Well, especially with the more modern runtimes, right? Yeah, yeah. You know, it really is just another process. Right. And, you know, have Kubernetes orchestrate that as well, right? Mm-hmm. Because ultimately the Gordo Kubernetes is an API and a scheduler for a cluster. Right. And a lot of ways you can think of it as, hey, we're replacing the Linux CPU scheduler. Mm-hmm. And we're just doing it across a cluster of machines. Right. Right. I will say that's one thing that I am, at least that I'm aware of, right? There could always be lots of stuff that I'm not. But I don't know of a lot of people who are working on kind of new interesting schedulers for Kubernetes.  People are waiting for some stuff to merge. You think? Yeah. There's been a ton of work on what's called the scheduler framework. Okay. Because previously, in order to do your own custom scheduler, you were writing, you were forking the main Kubernetes scheduler and writing your own in go. Right. And the scheduler, you know, SIG Scheduling said, you know, people need enough of this that we really want to make it possible to do this by basically plugging into a bunch of algorithms and changing waiting on things and changing configuration and that sort of thing to make it more possible to modify the scheduler in small ways and hence the schedule framework. Getting back to that bespoke problem, right? Yeah. The same thing that the operator is having, right? Yeah. But it's a natural transition, right? Right.  Right. And by people doing the bespoke thing, you figure out what it was you needed to implement. Right. Right. Exactly. And then you have a new generation and in that new generation I people do, you know, we make it a little bit more systematic and a little bit more reproducible. So, yeah, I totally hear it. Well, thanks so much for being on the show and taking the ride around to show it to me. Oh, it was very enjoyable. Thank you for showing me Bill Isle. Yeah. That was stuff.