Broadway's My Beat from Times Square to Columbus Circle, The Gaudiest, The Most Violent, The Lonesomeest Mile in the World. Broadway's My Beat transcribed with Larry Thor as Detective Danny Clover. Drift of autumn on Broadway and another time, time when night summons its mists, its trumpets, its banners of neon begins the withdrawal from the avenue and pavement is littered with its conquests and the defeated, the once brave revelers gather in the draining light of the spectacular to compare losses, to grub once more in the places where night is still deep. Find only the refuse of pain, the neon stained memories, the scraps and bones of illusion and in an alley a newspaper truck poised waiting for the first edition of daytime to be hurled into it. So run, grub in another place, stay the flow of night. And west of Broadway, side street, channel for nighttime to enter into a river. To Eddie about a brownstone and inside it, apartment where I was, a detective mug of it and a man to explain why he was in the place of violence. She called me, here she called me up and she said she's... You were at home when she called that right, Mr. Quinn? I told you, I was home. Look, you're gonna stand there, ask me questions and joys, hurt, joys dying. Ambulance will be here right away, Mr. Quinn, take it easy. Yeah, sure, sure, I'll do that, just like you guys, take it easy, really easy. She called, you came here, you found her stabbed. And the other girl, what was she like when you got here, Mr. Quinn?  Beaten up, knifed, dead when you got here. You sure you got a phone call, Mr. Quinn, you sure you weren't here all the time? Nobody had to call you because you... I'm doing like you said, I'm taking it easy, so don't louse it, huh? Just don't. Run it down again for me, Mr. Quinn, how it happened, why you happen to be here. All right, I'll do that. I was to a movie with Joy. After we stopped for a drink and Joy said she was tired, so I brought her home. And I kissed her goodnight at the door, then I went to my house and I read for a while and then I got into bed. Then the phone rang, I answered, it was Joy. She said, get here, Bobby, I've been hurt, I've been hurt very bad. I hung up, I put out my clothes, came here, she was right, she was hurt very bad. And her roomie Lois was dead. All right? Your girl's name's Joy Richard. Yeah. And her roommate... They've been roomies a long time, I don't know how long... All right, I better run out, tell them it's in here. They know, Mr. Quinn, you don't have to run out. Look, that's Joy who's dying, that ain't some ordinary day. They'll be all right, they'll be right up here, Mr. Quinn. They'll do everything they can. All right, I'll take your word for it. For her Joy, he says they'll do everything they can. Situation like this week, we've got to take his words. Mr. Quinn. Pardon me, yeah? The other girl Lois, you ever been out with her? I've been out with your roommate. Shall I tell them, yeah? Shall I tell them I've been out with her and with you and it's you I picked?  Just a girl, a man... That's right boys, in here. There's nothing you can do for this one, but the other one, maybe you can... They're here Joy. The Docs, they're here. They're gonna do something for you baby. Let's go out in the hall, Mr. Quinn. Let's do that. Cigarette? No. They'll do everything they can, Mr. Quinn. You know, I'm glad I picked Joy, not Lois. I picked Lois, where'd I be now? Holding hands with a dead girl, that's where I'd be. With Joy, I get another try. You think I'll get it, you've seen these things, I get another try? I don't know. You don't know, thanks a lot. Anything you can tell me about the girls, Mr. Quinn, something that'll give us a... Well, fun girls, kicks, good to be with them. It wasn't an easy choice to make. But I thought about it for a night and made it. Joy, there hasn't been one minute of sorry in it. They work? Yeah, yeah, yeah, they work. Public stenographers will tell them all. Hey, fellas, hold on a minute, huh?  Another thing you don't make. It's been a ball, honey. A real ball. About that time, a thing happened in the sky. A part of it started to bleed, and the deepest layer of black scutted away. And a marker of time was sounded, and the moon became paler, and rolled a quarter turn and then started to drift. New day came up the Hudson. New day came ashore and touched the streets. Someone somewhere noticed it, opened a window and let it in. New day in Manhattan. And later, hours into it, lobby of the Marland Hotel of slightly frayed green decor and clerk of slightly frayed lapel and smile, who shrugs directions for you. To the end of the desk and turn to your right of the furniture you're on your way in. And he did. Mr. Gamble said your name is Clover. I'm on the phone, right? Right. My name's Hardy, right? Well, sure. Let's get things lined up, squared away, names settled, and you comfortable Clover? Yes, I am, Mr. Hardy. Shoot. It's about Lois Burton and Joy Richard. Right. You see the papers this morning? Sure. Now what do you need? I just want you to tell me about them. Public stenographers had a desk and a typewriter and a room in the mezzanine, each of them. What else? I don't know what else. You want me to make up something? You want to give us to the public. Wander off the street when you need typing and the girls would have at it. Or when you need dictating, a girl's... About regular customers. The girls were human beings. I guess they had a regular something or other. Cute dames. And they had a life to live. I never bothered them or asked them any questions. They never hedged on the rent, so I guess they made out good. And that's about it. Yes? Gentlemen, is Mr. Hardy? Yes, ma'am. Something I can do? Well... Yes. Well, is it true about those two girls? One of them killed and the other... This is Mr. Clover from the police, ma'am. He's here because... Oh, how do you do, Mr. Clover? How do you do? It's terrible, isn't it? Were those two young women friends of yours? Oh, I knew them. That's why I came to see you, Mr. Hardy. The desk told me you were the man to see. Lois Burton had some of my husband's work. She was to have finished today. Writing in this morning, I saw the papers and, well... Yes? It's terrible. My husband will be deeply shocked. Why? Why? Yes, I... Why? Here's a girl you've employed from time to time for months and suddenly her life is snuffed out. Why? I see. Well, that certainly wasn't the correct question to ask. Was it, Mr. Hardy? No, ma'am. No, certainly not. Then your husband must have known Miss Burton quite well. Quite well? I need to learn things about Miss Burton. May I speak to your husband? If you want to. But how about my husband's work that was to be done? Your husband's name is... Anderson. Frank Anderson. I'll see that he gets it, Mrs. Anderson. May I take you home? That's very nice of you. I'm deeply shocked. Mr. Clover is from the police, dear. Murdered? If I'm not out of bounds, am I inviting Mr. Clover to come here and speak with you? You see, he said he needed to learn things about... Listen, dear. Yes? I want you to go right to your room and lie down. Well, I don't see... I don't see why this kind of talk concerns you anyhow. It's all right, isn't it, Mr. Clover? My wife can go and lie down, can't she? Go ahead, Jessica.  No. What's the matter with you? Just because I happen to know somebody who got killed, why do you have to drag my wife into it? Okay, okay. Okay, what? You finished staring now? Now look, Mr. Anderson...  What are you so upset about? I've gotten your kind of stares long enough. Just cut it out. Nobody... Just cut it out! What do you want? Joy Richard and Lois Burton. What about them?  All right. Talk. You're making a whole lot out of nothing. Coming here, upsetting my wife. Mr. Anderson, as far as I know, you're just a man who employed a public stenographer. How wrong am I? You're exactly right. Then just fill me in, huh? I write articles for a living. Close by is the library. I thumb through an encyclopedia, come up with something interesting, and do a little research on it, write it up so ladies can enjoy reading about it. Sometimes I'm fortunate. Get it condensed and reprinted. And you write articles. Lois Burton did my typing for me. She was efficient, she was neat, and she took shorthand rapidly. What about Miss Richard? She was a young woman who worked in that small office. Pleasant? Pretty? Other than that? All right. Then let's just talk about Miss Burton. She did my typing for me. She was efficient, she was neat, and she...  Just let's get this over with. That's all. Did you kill her? No. Was she any more than a... Goodness sake! What? Are you going to ask me whether I tried any funny stuff? Is that how you term it, funny stuff? Well, yes I did. Sometimes she worked late for me and I took her back to her hotel. And I liked her. She was a nice, sensible girl, neat and efficient. And if you promise not to tremble with the implications of it, I'm going to tell you what I'm going to do. I like Joy Richard too. She was a human being who crossed my path and whom I liked. I'm going to visit her at the hospital. Are you trembling? Mr. Anderson... Come on, Mr. Anderson, I'll take you there. Mr. Clover? Yeah? On the way down here, I've been thinking of things to say to her, to say to Joy. And what, Mr. Anderson? I believe I've hit upon the exact phrase, the precise words. I'm sure they will help her. Uh-huh. I'm quite sure. Then here, Mr. Anderson. Danny? This is Mr. Anderson, Dr. Sinski. He has something he wants to say to Ms. Richard. Ms. Richard is dead, Danny. Dead? A moment ago. I was just... A moment ago. A moment away from the solace I could have given her. The exact phrase, the precise words to... To what, Mr. Anderson? Why, to ease the pain of what happened to her. To make gentle the path of... A moment away. A pity. A real pity. You are listening to Broadway Is My Beat, written by Morton Fine and David Friedkin, and starring Larry Thor as Detective Danny Clover. The little red schoolhouse of bygone days was something to be proud of. But in many parts of the country today, it's become the shabby schoolhouse. Too little to house its current crop of students. Its equipment outdated and inadequate. Its teachers too few and too underpaid. If your schools are like that, act now with others in your community before the costs of repair and replacements get astronomical. Act now in the interest of tomorrow's leaders and tomorrow's America. When October spreads its golden light over Broadway, the mob scurries down the street toward the week's ending. It's the month of the stadium again, the soft drink and the old locomotive yell and the very small hot dog for 35 cents. It's the season when higher education comes into its own, when a student punts a bladder and everybody screams. The word is Bula Bula, the flower chrysanthemum, and everybody's either a fellow-router or an arch-rival. So get with it. It's just like going to college. And at headquarters, a word from that ex-collegian, Sergeant Geno Tritaglia. Talk about a bo-jess, Nanny. Huh? Bo-jess, Nanny, a noble gesture. Nobody was talking about it. All I can say is that Raymond Shapiro is the noblest Shapiro of them all. Him and his bo-jess. So help me. Geno, if you don't... Okay, Nanny, okay. I just... items. Result from legwork by the good detectives Markovan and Denison. Thank you. Item one. Joy Richard and Lois Burton were out of town as to New York. Joy from Pittsburgh, Lois and Cleveland. They met at a business college. Go on. Decided to set up a little office with six stenographers, the two of them. So they located at the mall and hotel. What else? Nanny, what is it about today that makes it so tough for young people to keep out of mischief? Just tell me what else, Geno. The both of them misdemeanors. A pair of peas, like drinking loudly and swimming in the rain in the fountain. Not a minute, Nanny. Sure. Don't mind me. Robert Quinn, Nanny, that Joy Richard girl's boyfriend. His alibi checks out. A neighbor saw him kiss his girl at the door and leave her. Then his landlord says he got a call an hour or so later from a girl his son had heard or drunk. Also, Frank Anderson has a dad. What's novel about that, Detective Muggerman? Nanny, he called in, Nanny. Read your question to his son. Left word for you to drop in. Here's his address. And thank you for your kind attention, gentlemen. And uptown, then, and east to park. And north, the segment of city where avenue is wide and facades are of marble. And children are attended by governesses in gray silk and whose school books are carried by chauffeur of dashing uniform. Avenue also of the miniature poodle and the king-sized jewel and the furs scented with musk from the Mediterranean and the house of Frank Anderson's father. The man who opens the door is a gray man and bent who tells you you're expected. Mr. Anderson is in the library. Takes you there. And the room is of a great fireplace of field stone and of fire in it. And of glowing leathers of rifle rack and gleaming wooden steel. And of autumn flowers and autumn branches in crystal. And of something else, a man in silk robe and of swift appraising eyes and of great power in his hands. Glad to meet you, sir. I'm Frank Anderson. You? Danny Clovers. Glad to meet you, Danny. That's Charles, my man. He's not that old. He got gray like that, stoop like that because I've made demands on him in my lifetime. Haven't I, Charles? Oh, you know it, Charles. Mr. Anderson, you were...  Will you have, Danny? Oh, nothing. Thanks, sir. Then just bring me one, Charles. The rye. Four fingers, huh? This is an occasion. Sit down, Danny. All my needs, Charles, takes care of them. Almost all of them, that is. Why don't you call us, Mr. Anderson? To talk to you. Talk to you about my son. What about him? You've seen him, I understand. Question him about those girls. Met his... Thanks, Charles. Thank you very much, Charles. Mr. Anderson, I know you're a busy man. Cleaning up after the dead keeps a man busy. My name's Frank, Danny. Frank Anderson Sr. My son... I want to show you something. Charles, get Mrs. Anderson's photograph. I want you to have a look at a picture of my wife, Danny. Find woman, good woman. That's why she died young. I want you to have a look at her, so... Thanks, Charles. Here, Danny. Take a look. That was my wife. Very beautiful. You're right, Danny. Very beautiful woman. And loved me deeply. That's why she named our son Frank Jr. She said she wanted him to grow up to be like his father. Like me. She said that, didn't she, Charles? She really said that. Charles was at my side. When she died, weren't you, Charles? And your son? He got here a day late. He was at college. Can't blame him for that. He couldn't get a train. Can't blame a boy for that. He cried real hard.  You've seen my son. Yes. Very handsome boy. Yes. Big, muscular. Talks real nice. Writes real nice. Good words. Yes. He gets 20,000 a year from his mother's will. My son doesn't have to lift a finger. Look, Mr. Anderson. Easy, Danny. Easy and calm. We'll get along better. All those things. All those things my son has. Makes him an attractive man, doesn't it? Uh-huh. Made him attractive in college too. Co-eds went for my son real big. Me and his old daddy proud the way pretty young things went for his son. Of course, knowing the boy was coming into 20,000 a year when he got out, that didn't hurt a bit. Just put honey in the old college trial. And they tried, Danny, believe me, they tried hard. You know what? No. Frank Junior, my son, he said to me once, Dad, I'm a discriminating man. Don't push me, Dad. I'll find her. I'll find Miss Wright. I'll find Miss Wright. For a while there, I thought he had. Went with her longer than all the rest. Beautiful girl, stunning. Young. Met her at an old grad get-together. This girl. Mary Ann Corby. Charles has it all written down. He'll give it to you when you feel like going. Her name, her address. Danny. Yeah? You met my son's wife. Yeah. She's 20 years older than he is. He told me. He tell you how he met her, how he met his Miss Wright. No. In a museum. I mean it. The Metropolitan Museum guided tour. They admired the same statue. They got to talking. He married her. I didn't make the wedding. Danny. What? You go see Mary Ann Corby. Ask her how come she wouldn't marry my son of the $20,000 a year. My handsome, attractive son. Charles, Danny's coat, huh? Get it? What does that music make you need, Danny? Something tropical? Something real southy, yeah? Miss Corby. Why'd you lip for just this little bit? Listen. Does it bring out the Caribbean in you? Well, if it does, you'd better run. Don't walk right out of here. Because all you've done so far is say you're from the police and guileless girl that I am. I admitted you. Guileless girl that I am. You're done? Does it impress? Or am I in the wrong light for it? Want to know why I'm here, Miss Corby? One way or another, it'll come out. Frank Anderson. See? Okay, tell me about him. Need more music? Mm-mm. There's an oldie. Goes M's for the O's for the T's for the, you know, mother song. Goes with the boy real fine. I'm saying Frank was a mama's fella. No fun at all, no fun at all. Very fine boy. Uh, no fun at all. Why not? Listen, a fella like that healed and pretty. And me as predatory as anything you'll find. And me as wanting to marry a healed and pretty fella as you'll find. You didn't make it? I've got the draughtiest fourth finger of the left hand as you'll find among those of us without wedding bands. Listen. Yeah? I went with the boy. And? I went with the boy, period. I had a whole spring with the boy. I was un-kissed from March to June. Then on June 3rd, he slugged me. What are you talking about? We don't talk the same, do we? Just tell me what... The fella didn't kiss, nor hug, nor scratch gently the forearm, nor say sillies, nor breathe upon the cheek. Waste of time. On June 2nd, I got loaded. No. From the frustration of it. What happened? He walked into my apartment. I put my arms around him. Well, he didn't react the way I expected. He slugged me. I had to put a steak on my eye. So? So what? So I'm still looking for a fella. At least I've got a direction in life. Isn't that nice? Well, if that's all you can say, you better go. Do. Mr. Clover. Hello, Mrs. Anderson. What do you want, Mr. Clover? Is your husband home? What do you want, Mr. Clover? Would you rather I came back with a warrant? Let's go inside, shall we? Very well. Frank. You know I'm busy. Frank. I told you, Jessica, dear, I told you... What do you want, Clover? Sorry if I'm interrupting, but... You're interrupting? Article writing? Icebergs. More than meets the eye. For Science Magazine on assignment. I'm happy for you. Would you like some information on icebergs? Just some information on a couple of public stenographers. Jessica. No, don't send me away again. It's just that I don't want you mixed up in these. Mixed up? Why should I be mixed up? Why should you be mixed up? You can stay, Jessica. Stay, stay. What is it, my Franks, mixed up in, Mr. Clover? Haven't you told your wife, Mr. Anderson? Tell her what? Look, I've had a long talk with your father. Good for you. Very good for you. What do you think about Frank's father? What do you mean? Do you like him? I haven't thought about it. The only impression I've got is I believe he's a truthful man. Jessica. Jessica, why don't you... No, Frank. All right. What did my father tell you? About a girl named Marianne Corby. You've told me about her, Frank. Did he tell you he slugged her? Slugged her? What about it, Frank? Don't pay any attention to him, Jessica. Now let me ask you something, Mr. Clover. All right. Did my father finger his mustache when he talked to Marianne? Let me handle this, Jessica. Did my father twirl his mustache and look sly? All he told me was go talk to her. How do you come to call on my father, Mr. Clover? He phoned us. He wanted to talk to someone about you. Yes. And Mr. Clover... Yeah? Why should he want to do that? I don't think your father likes you very much. Is that all? We know that.  That's why he called. He doesn't like you very much. On account of me. Because I'm older. And because... That's about it. And this is the way he's found to destroy me. Listen, Mr. Anderson, police operate this way. A crime is committed, a special kind of crime in a special way. We ask ourselves, who does this sort of thing? Who's done this before and in this way? Oh, I must write an article. We'll call it... So when two girls are slugged and stabbed... The title, the police. More than meets the eye. Frank. Yes? Did you do what he said? What? Hit that girl? Marianne? Yes. Yes, I did. I see. Tell your wife why you did it. Because she wasn't like you, Jessica. She was cheap. Forward, like Lois Burton did. Yes. You've got to understand, I have a well-ordered life. I don't want anything spectacular to happen to it. I've got Jessica in peace and silence. There's no room for... Frank. And you're what I want, Jessica. You took her home, Frank. Last night. Yes? You worked late at the hotel. At her office. And you took her home. Yes, I did. What happened? I'll tell you what happened. I'm going to tell you the truth. When I tell you, you're not going to be angry at me. Just tell me. She tried to get me drunk. I see. She tried to get me drunk and she wanted me to dance with her. I pushed her away and she fell down. She was hurt. Jessica, I didn't mean it. She was stabbed. She was... She knew I was married, didn't she? Why did she try all that funny business for? The other girl, Joy. She came in. It was the wrong time for her to come in. She started to scream. I hit her, too. Jessica. Oh. I'm so sorry for you. You're not angry, are you? Just sorry. Jessica. Please hold me. Just like this.  None of them were. On a late autumn's night, Broadway echoes with sounds heard only in darkness. Whispers. Laughter floating down to your end of the bar. Footsteps that fade when you turn a corner. You reach after them and there's nothing. The closing door at the end of a long corridor. It's Broadway. The Goddiest. The most violent. The lonesomeest mile in the world. Broadway. My Beat. Broadway's My Beat stars Larry Thor as Detective Danny Clover, with Charles Calvert as Tortaglia, and Jack Krushen as Muggevin. The program is produced and directed by Elliot Lewis, with musical score composed and conducted by Alexander Courage. In tonight's transcribed story, Paula Winslowers heard as Jessica Anderson and Lee Malar as Frank Anderson. Featured in the cast were Hi Everback, Her Butterfield, and Mary Jane Croft. Bill Anders speaking. Edward R. Murrow on CBS Radio. Lowell Thomas on CBS Radio. Robert Trout on CBS Radio. Alan Jackson on CBS Radio. These and many other familiar names in news reporting and commentary are why America listens most to CBS Radio for the latest news, daytime or nighttime. The place to get it right and get it fastest is CBS Radio, fed by its crop of overseas and nation-spanning observers, eyewitness observers reporting firsthand. You hear America's favorite show.


When we talk about mobility, we tend to, in some sense, think of it as the correlation of parents and kids. Well, that was a terrible lack of correlation. In other words, there was something about the nature of discrimination in America at that point in time. And I think the data around the late 50s was taken from. Parents could not lock their kids in. And so I think that what we need is, and of course, this is not an original thought to say that the world has non-linearities, I think we need ways to distinguish the characterization of inequalities and persistence intergenerationally between individuals and the morally salient and historically salient social groupings we face. I'm Stephen Durloff. I'm a professor at the Harris School of Public Policy at the University of Chicago. And I'm also the director of the Stone Center for Research on Wealth, Inequality, and Mobility. The name of the Great Catsby Curve in some ways reflects the fact that the idea was politically salient and what I mean by that is that a number of economists, and I think Miles Korak deserves particular credit, identified that if you look across countries, those countries that had relatively tight distributions of income cross-sectionally tended to be more intergenerationally mobile than others. And so in other words, it looked like that those countries that were both unequal at one point in time were more unequal in terms of the extent to which parents could parental income control the destiny of children. When this came out, the then chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, Alan Kruger, dubbed it the Great Catsby Curve. And I think the reason that it had political salience is that it was one, it really did challenge certain American myth. And so a thing that was said when I was an undergraduate, for example, was that America had made a different choice from Europe in terms of the social welfare programs. The idea would be that Americans care about equal opportunity. And so in a society where you want to maximize opportunities, you, by corollary, allow for lots of inequality in the outcomes. Well, in some sense, what the curve was saying was there isn't a trade-off. In other words, societies could both have very high levels of mobility and not particularly disparate levels of comparatively lower levels of cross-sectionally inequality of outcomes. And so in that sense, I think it resonated not just because it challenged a myth, but because of all conventional measures. Inequality has been going up the last 40 years. Now, the reasons for it, the levels of the changes, all of that is under debate. But the fact of increasing inequality, I don't think is, per se, disputed. And so that intersection did it. Now, then you could ask a second question, which is, what does this mean normatively? And I think the idea of the Great Gatsby curve has salience, because it tells us that there's a consequence to cross-sectional inequality that is particularly morally disturbing. And what I mean by that is that in theories of distributive justice, what are fair distributions, what makes inequality fair or unfair, one of the primary ideas is that inequality is unfair if it is for reasons that a person should not be held responsible for. And that idea should be associated with the economist and philosopher, John Romer. And so upon, you know, reflects upon that, society in which the inequalities we observe cross-sectionally are to a large extent driven by differences in parental characteristics, it's extremely hard to defend that. Because as they say, the lottery is one with reference to parents and kids, you don't get to choose them. And so that becomes a fundamental argument that there's ethical argument in terms of the justifications for policies to reduce inequality. Is what sort of mechanisms generate a relationship between persistence across generations and cross-sectional inequality? Now, one has to be a little bit careful about that in the sense that there may just be mathematical relationships between them. This may sound boring, but the underlying vision of the data in an economy is there's this process that's evolving and it has many features. Some features are cross-sectional, some are dynamic or intergenerational. And so the first question you ask is, this is the nerdy stuff you have to ask is to what extent is it a mechanism versus a function of the fact that there's a process that's evolving. So let me put that there. And the reason I say it that way is that one could ask the question, if I see a positive correlation between persistence and inequality, you know the banality, correlation's not causation, how do we think about the relationships between them? Most of the theories have embedded in them the implication that inequality begets persistence. And it turns out that the canonical mathematical models which can generate it mechanically, its persistence begets inequality so that you could edit all that out as being boring, but that's kind of the background to it. I think the theories of the Gatsby curve come in in three broad categories. One of them are ones that are based on family influences. And so one idea would be that family incomes matter directly for children. There's investments by the parents. A more complex version of such a model would say that family characteristics are both the family's income and the educational levels of the parents. And so what that would do is it would say that there was a direct income effect from parent to child and an indirect effect because education of course affects the parents' income. From that vantage point, what happens intuitively is that as income's spread out, you have greater disparities in the investments in children and from their parents and the influences of parents interact with that because that'd be an implicit idea that highly educated parents are probably pretty good at spending money to educate their kids and get them to succeed. And so more inequality amongst the parents' education and income levels generates greater persistence when you look at the offspring of the rich and the poor families. So that would be one very broad way to think about it. A second category I'm gonna call that social and this is the area that I personally worked on as an economic theorist. And there the idea is to say that many of the mechanisms that matter for the success of children are socially determined. And so to make that concrete, one thinks about neighborhoods and schools. Now parental income matters for neighborhoods and schools but it's a different way to think about it. What parental income does that determines what sort of neighborhoods and what sort of schools a child grows up in. From that vantage point, as parental income becomes more unequal, the quality of schools, the characteristics of neighborhoods become more dispersed and that is what allows the inequalities amongst the parents to be perpetuated across time. Now in that vantage point, there's really kind of, there's several reasons why this would matter. One obvious one is the way the United States finances education. There's many cases, very large differences in per capita expenditures depending on the influence of the neighborhoods. So the political economy does that. The other is simply that segregation more broadly generates intergenerational disparities. There's, if you look at things such as exposure to lead, exposure to violence, the list goes on. Fluid parents can isolate their children from these phenomena in ways that poor families, lots of fluent families cannot and the evidence of the effects of those two, for example, is incontrovertible on future success. And so I would say that the difference between the social and the family ones by definition is that the family ones say, you sort of change resources in a certain way for the family or you augment the family resources through early childhood investment might be an example. Whereas the social ones really focus on segregation. In other words, even reducing socioeconomic segregation or reducing its consequences. So if I already equalize expenditures across neighborhoods, I'm sounding like a real social planner, that would make the consequence of living in neighborhoods with different incomes less. The other, of course, is to make affirmative actions to increase integration of communities. Now I put those there as a good economist. I of course mentioned the two, the body of economics work. There's work by economists and political scientists that we were in political economy, which would ask about how inequality begets persistence. And so the sort of idea there would be that as you have more unequal distribution of income, the policies that emerge from that system become less generous towards the disadvantage. And so you have a cycle in which inequality leads to a less generous, so either social welfare state or efforts to improve the quality of poor schools, et cetera. And that would generate the dynamic. Most of what I've had to say is thinking about a gatsby curve within a country. You take the United States and you ask intertemporally what inequality is greater in this generation where you have more persistence of status. A different question is comparing the United States to Scandinavia, for example, which is what the original gatsby curve did. I think that what I would emphasize in thinking about the socioeconomic mechanisms within the gatsby curve is this is a canonical example of the importance of multidisciplinary perspectives. If you think about the explanations that I gave you, I started with a very neoclassical economics idea. Parents invest in their children. The budget constraints determined by the parents' investment and so that's what generated persistence. Then I switched a little bit. I said, well, that's 21st century. You say it's not just the parents' income, it's characteristics of the parents. That would be the skills idea. I then said something about social. That's really a sociological idea. In other words, if I say to you that there are phenomena in terms of the relationship between the milieu in which people grow up and what happens to them, that's where economics and sociology naturally meld. When I was making arguments about the relationship between the distribution of income and associated political outcomes, and of course I could have decomposed that to say there's differences in political power if you have certain disparities in income so on and so forth to explain why there is, that's where political science integrates with economics. So I think the most important thing I'd put on the table is that if I take what were the canonical explanations, those represent a real need for the integration of political science, economics, and sociology. Now, in saying that, I didn't mean to give short shrift of psychology, because, and in fact, in my old synthesis of the literature, I've emphasized, and with my co-authors, Kimmington and Andrews Cortellos, that there's also ideas of identity that have to do with the psychology of individuals, societies that are segregated. There's another set of consequences, how do people think about themselves? And so the example I would give is that, we also, we're talking about college is the gateway to success, is an empirical matter, I'm happy to agree with that. If one grows up in a community in which nobody has gone to college or parents haven't, it's not just a matter of saying they don't have role models, it's saying that you're requiring an act of imagination that isn't necessary for somebody, and let's say, you know, the joke I always tell my students is, did my children have a chance to go to college? The answer is, well, I guess it was a choice, but their parent was a college professor, all their parents' friends were college professors, all of their friends were the kids. In other words, that's not just a matter of, as I said, as a role model, it's a matter of something else which is the acts of imagination, the capacity to see oneself in a different world than the one one starts in. There's been some very interesting work, for example, on so-called low-cost interventions in improving college education, and one of them is in cases of students of color, and students in which, in freshman orientation, you take steps to positively facilitate how they're going to process the college experience, and so what do I mean by that? There is an irreducible fact at every college, and that is people went to high schools of different quality. If you went to a lousy high school, people went, it's likely freshman year's gonna be pretty tough. If you're 17 or 18 years old, and you show up in college, and you get a poor grade the first time, how do you process that information? You say, I'm gonna need to bear down, I'm gonna have to be patient with the fact that people came from different backgrounds, or do you engage in self-questioning? To me, those are issues of identity, those are the issues of the psychology of feeling that this college, this institution, later on in the labor force, this organization, that's a place where I fit. So I see very important areas of psychology which speak to the Gatsby curve, but I wanna be honest, there's only a little bit work's been done on that, and it's not as far as I know by economists. I think that in terms of general research and intergenerational mobility, there's a great need to think in a richer fashion about the process that transmits things about parents to children. I mean, the mobility is definitionally about parents and kids. So here's one, I'll tell you things I'm working on, and so in that sense, it's self-serving, but I hope it's important, and so one question would be, should we think about parents as having this single measure of income when a child's growing up? Economists call it permanent income, it's operational, you take the average of the incomes from, let's say, eight, zero to 19. A different thing to say is that incomes at different ages matter. So maybe the influence of income when you're born is different than the income your parent has when you're 16 years old. And so a number of people have studied that, and so the particular work that I'm doing, and I wanna mention my co-authors at Yusung Chang and June Park at University of Indiana Bloomington and Sung Hee Lee, who is not the Korean Development Institute. We actually asked that question, if you sort of look at the trajectories of incomes between zero and 19, how do they predict future permanent income of the kids? And we found something pretty surprising, and that is the incomes in late childhood and adolescence have much more predictive power, they're more sensitive than the early ones when children are young.  Now that's surprising because there's all this very compelling evidence, I believe, about the efficacy of early childhood investment. But then this is the point I wanna get to, and that is, I think where the research has to go is to not have this black box for parental incomes somehow produce some mysterious thing called education that then the kid or the child takes to the labor market. If one thinks about the results, and I think, okay, this is speculation, but I think this is what's going on, that whatever criticism is on the hands of the American Welfare State, they're worse for adolescence than it is for children. And furthermore, what income does is different. Adolescent incomes later, those have to do with schools and neighborhoods. There's a different thing that's being purchased. And so it's not a matter that, one wants to say early childhood or something else, it's rather, there's complicated complementarities, interactions between them. And in my judgment, we have to step back. An important thing to do is to step back from this scale or this blob of income produces a blob, according to this very scientific terms I know of education, and that produces income. But rather to say the parents have this vector of things that they do for a child. And I think that that therefore will speak to that. It turns out that when you sort of take this perspective, you can generate a Gatsby curve based on the distribution of ages in a population. And the reason for that is, as children get older, if I look at 17-year-olds, the variance of their parents' incomes is bigger than what we have one-year-olds. And so actually it generates a different type of Gatsby curve. That is, the cohort, the distribution of cohorts actually could create a relationship between inequality and persistence. So that's kind of the first thing I would say, I think is an important measurement issue. The second is that I think that this literature, and to be clear, many people are working on it, needs even greater focus on issues of group inequality. This is an anecdote which you're not gonna believe, but it's true. I was typing in that debate team in high school and I was looking some book up. And you're looking for stuff on the guaranteed annual income was the topic. And I saw a paper that had something which I never forgot in it. It was an occupational mobility table, not income, but occupation. And it was for African-Americans and whites. And so it was around 1962, so it was during, ending of Jim Crow, in which you could sort of say you had upper white color, lower white color, blue color, I don't remember if it was upper or lower, and then agriculture and manual. And if you look at the white category, it's kind of what you would expect. Because most are likely that you have a white color show, that the parents white color. For African-Americans, it didn't matter what the parents were. They always were likely to have kids that were manual workers. So why do I bring this up? Because when we talk about mobility, we tend to, in some sense, think of it as the correlation of parents and kids. Well, that was a terrible lack of correlation. In other words, there was something about the nature of discrimination in America at that point in time. I think the data around the late 50s was taken from, that parents could not lock their kids in. And so I think that what we need is, and of course, this is not an original thought to say the world has nonlinearities. I think we need ways to distinguish the characterization of inequalities and persistence intergenerationally between individuals and the morally salient and historically salient social groupings we face. And in saying that, that's kind of, again, these come down to some of the devils in the details. It's kind of, you know, figuring out the right ways to measure these things is hard. But I think that that's just another direction we have to go. I mean, to be very provocative or not, the reparations arguments in my judgment, the strongest ones have to do with persistence. In other words, independent of one's views of contemporary discriminations.  I'm saying, even if you thought that, the persistence of what happened is so vast that the idea of affirmative, you know, societal level efforts to break those, that persistence to me is a very, very morally powerful argument. And I think evidence on nonlinearities on sort of, the term would be bottlenecks in which there's certain configurations of family, ethnicity, geography, they just make it really hard for kids to get above that. That type of focus should be explicit in the measurement of mobility. So I think that many of the inequalities we face in society are because of these disparities in social interactions that are faced. So from my perspective, you know, I think that, you know, you ask issues about, you know, what are the kind of standard things that people worry about? What are the rezoning restrictions and how can relaxation promote socioeconomic integration? Now, relaxing some of these restrictions by itself, that's not a, you know, that's not, it's not self-evident that you actually have the construction going on. That's kind of a thing you would want. That's kind of the first step. Obviously, government subsidies for middle-income housing, that's a thing that can be done. So at very micro levels, you can think about economic integration. If we're gonna focus on race, I think there are extremely compelling arguments that diversity both intrinsically matters and it matters intergenerationally. So for me, the preservation of, you know, the way in which we think about the construction of college classes and all that, that's all very important. And I think there'll be a, you know, be terrible move backwards if the Supreme Court bans those types of policies. And so I realize it's getting into politics and ethical issues, so I'm telling you what I think is exactly appropriate, those things have to be defended. I think another thing that I would probably emphasize in all of this is that I think is the need for thinking about how to simply reduce the sources of disparities that are race-based in terms of everything from labor market connections to what I recall to the act of imagination. And so those are just the issues of information flows. If you said, what's the policy consequence? I don't, that I'm not qualified to say, but I think that it's extraordinarily important that there be actions that, you know, when you go to the University of Chicago and you see in the spring, the kids get off buses and walk around the campus, all that actually is meaningful. And so what I don't know, and this is where I can tell you who would, that's those types of things I would scale to dramatically break the psychological isolations that I think exist.


What's good Josh your boros back out again with another video and I know you guys have been waiting for me to drop my thoughts and opinions on The 2021 Royal Rumble. I wasn't able to watch it live last night So I had to make sure I got up this morning took time out of my day to sit down and watch the Royal Rumble And I enjoyed it man not gonna lie to you This was worth the time just sitting down and just really watching it and I enjoyed it man I did not regret it at all I tried to stay on social media as much as possible last night because I didn't even want to get on live because I knew somebody was gonna Probably say something about the Royal Rumble. So I wanted to go in fresh clear with no type of spoilers and I enjoyed it Great way to start today. I'm just keep it keep it simple. Um, I'm gonna let you guys know I enjoyed this pay-per-view. Now. Here's the thing. I only watch maybe Four of the matches the Goldberg match the last man standing match Wait, wait, wait, I said that wrong the Oldberg versus Drew match the last man standing match between Kevin Owens and Roman Reigns and Both the Royal Rumbles men's of Royal Rumbles and women's Royal Rumble So those are the only match that I watch other matches. I kind of skim through because I didn't really care I'm just be honest and just off those matches alone. I enjoyed the pay-per-view. It kind of you know, it was entertaining man So we're gonna get right into it. I'm gonna start with the Oldberg versus Drew Mack a McIntyre match I have my notes and This is probably the few amount of notes I have for this match because I didn't care I didn't care and this is it sucks Drew was pitted against an opponent that no one really wanted to see for a while The fact that he went against Oldberg was pointless now knows I do have it was kind of some of the highlights of the match But it it really wasn't much to say Drew hits Goldberg before the bell rings and hit him with a spear. That was a nice. It was nice and refreshing then of course Goldberg hits drew with a spear to the barricade. We've seen this spot countless times. It was what it was and then Other stuff happened in the match That's I'm being so serious. I did not care for this match I only wanted to see the outcome and the right person one Drew puts away Oldberg I actually have that in my notes. I have Oldberg capitalized Drew puts away Oldberg because this was pointless I'm sorry. This kind of put the WWE championship on the back burner I want y'all to be honest with me How many of y'all who watched the whole pay-per-view live from beginning to end forgot that match even happened I? Me I have the luxury of skipping matches I didn't even want to see and I forgot that match happened when it was all said and done I was like, oh wait. Oh damn. Oh There was a match at the beginning. It was a WWE championship match was at the beginning of the show Oh, yeah, I forgot I forgot. That's how unimportant it was the only way that match would have probably you know had some type of Importance to it as if drew loss and thank goodness He didn't lose because I think everybody would have ran it about that and everybody would have probably had a sour taste Damn there for the rest of the show. So the right person one Oldberg needs to stay away from the WWE. It doesn't matter man at this point beating Goldberg Doesn't in my opinion Create any star value to new talent cuz it's like bro. It doesn't we don't care He's not this mystical being like he once was we don't care So him beating Oldberg. I like how I keep going back from Goldberg old Berg I'm gonna keep calling over him beating Oldberg doesn't really matter man Like I just he needs to go ahead retire live out the rest of his days, man. That's it, bro. Like He should not be in a WWE ring or wrestling ring no more It's just let it go let the young young talent get their shine Hopefully they can do something with Drew and you can have a nice feud for WrestleMania because he deserves it WWE championship deserves some light. So we'll see where the WWE world where Vince McMahon, you know, the booking booking team what they what they come up with for Drew Hopefully it's something good. If not, then once again the WWE championship, which should be the flagship title Well, ultimately end up on the back burner. So I Going to the next match that I watched was the women's Royal Rumble. I enjoyed it It was it was cool for what it was Unless I got some notes. I'm gonna list them down some of the things that I Had watched and was like, okay, this you know, this is noteworthy first and foremost, I Never understood why they had Jerry Jerry the King Lawler on commentary For just the women's Royal Rumble match. It's so I get it. That's always been his gimmick He liked the he liked the women, you know saying but it was always kind of on this some Creepy type way like an old man creepy type way. They're still going with that gimmick in 2021 That's the only reason why he was there just to talk about how much he likes the girls it was And much respect to Jerry man. He's a legend in the business on commentary and just you know in the ring People know who he is.  I thought that was cool. They continue to have feud That's one thing I love about the Royal Rumbles. You can continue previous feuds that may have ended Within that match because you guys have history and it would make sense logically. Oh I have beef with you. I remember you. Let's get let's get it going. You know what I'm saying? So I like that The whole our truth segment Is our truth From what I know, I'm not sure how credible this is but apparently someone at DME There's all like a few months back our truth is actually watched our channel, you know, I'm saying like hold on hold on Hold on. I'm not even gonna cut this out. My laptop's about to die. Hold on I'm not cutting this out because I don't want to I just want I want this to be raw and unedited You know, I'm saying even though I'm gonna edit the video not cut this out Yes, because it would have been tragic if my goddamn laptop died And then I'm just like, yo, I gotta do this all over again But no, um what I was saying is someone at DME Few months back saying our truth actually checks out our channel. He's actually watched our channel in the clutch page So I'm not sure if that's true, but if that is true shout out to you our truth That's pretty dope But I still don't understand why they were having the 24 seven Like shenanigans during this match. It kind of takes away from the women's royal rumble in my opinion I like I don't I don't think they would do this in them. Oh, let me not say that We're talking about vents here So I wouldn't be surprised they do that segment in the men's match But I just think if it's a royal rumble, you gotta have some type of respect, you know For what's going on there and I didn't like that because I thought it was like you can have that segment going on anything Just have that as a backstage segment if you want, but it was kind of kind of cringe to me But apparently alicia fox wins the 24 seven championship And then our truth wins it back Like it's really our to our truth title, bro It's literally a gimmick championship because there's no one better to hold that title than our truth because It's he's so fucking funny dawg.  Um Now here's the thing I'm kind of getting tired of is the Naomi memes if you know what I'm talking about every year Kind of what they were doing with kofi kingston where every year kofi kingston would find a fantastic way to not get eliminated It's kind of the same thing here with Naomi in the women's side of thing every year She'll find a fantastic way to not get eliminated this time. It wasn't just that fantastic a back She failed back first, but her feet never touched the ground I'm tired of it. It's a meme in my opinion at this point and not a funny one. It's just like, all right It's cool a couple of times if it's creative I'll give you that but that one was just I mean technically if someone just falls on their back And don't ever put their feet on the ground. They technically could do that Why don't more people do that just following your back?   How about you niggas just eliminate her and then boom Problem solved. So shout out to real Ripley having a brain like I don't know what the fuck's happening. But I'm about to get out of here. All right. There we go back to the match like You ain't about to transform in here and go crazy super saiyan like what no help out of here So that was a pretty cool segment. I do like I believe the last few was Bianca Belair uh, Rhea Ripley and of course charlotte and Bianca and Rhea Ultimately tag team to eliminate charlotte. I thought that was dope And I liked the person they gave the dub to none other than Bianca Belair. She deserves it I am interested in seeing where this goes. Honestly, I would love for her to go against sasha Since she's the winner of the royal rumble this year women's royal rumble What I think she needs to go against sasha. I think that would be a fantastic match And they're both Both very talented I think this would be I think that's that's who Bianca should go against At at wrestle mania. What do y'all think? Bianca versus sasha. Do y'all think that would be a match I would be interested in because I know I would so Comment down below. Let me know if y'all would be interested in that match because I definitely would but overall Women's royal rumble was cool. It was kind of it was too much cringy hokey moments going on But for the most part, I think the right person won here. It was enjoyable. I watched it for the most part all the way through There was some parts I was skipping through like the nia jackson and the uh Shayna baszler stuff. I didn't really care kind of skip through certain parts But for the most part I enjoyed it and the right person won. All right My favorite matches of the night. I'm sorry. The royal rumble was cool But I knew this was going to be the fit my favorite match of the night And when I say I have notes on this I have notes on this we're gonna die deep into this Hey before we get into this I called dub before I recorded this video and I told him I'm not gonna spoil it for you I just want you to know your boy roman reigns is the despicable human being He went mega rogue tonight and dub was like yo, that's that's what I love to hear I was like, yo, you don't understand roman was despicable. He's like that's what happens when you go rogue So he'll probably check out some of the clips later on. I know he would have loved watching roman reigns just Just just just become evil man It's crazy dub hadn't really been watching wrestling But anytime I mentioned roman reigns and his rogue Rogueness now and he enjoys that so that shows you Somebody doesn't even watch wrestling like that can enjoy a product in someone because they went heel, but That's neither here nor there. Let's get into this my favorite match of the night roman versus kevin Last man standing match got notes for days on this one First and foremost, I love the promo package before the match fantastic gave me goosebumps sold the story Great I just wish they could have like more like licensed music like they used to back in the day Like them license like rock songs used to hit hard, bro Man comment down below. What was some of your favorite promo packages from back in the day? One I can think of offhand would obviously be the Helen uh, no, let's uh, I think elimination chamber No, I take that back take that back. It was the survivor series alliance versus Versus team wwf that promo package was Awesome, bro. That that promo package the winner takes all promo package with the song I forgot the name of the song that was in it comment down below if y'all know what i'm talking about Promo package like that with license songs always hit harder. They don't really do it as much, but I wish this one had it um All right first and foremost have to say this match started off. They going at it roman hits a nice spear On kevin no one's outside the ring when I say roman spears It's like when she went rogue they they look so more deadly I don't know if y'all noticed that like he literally he's not spearing people in like their chest No, he's like the torso area. He's spearing people like Upper torso chest area this region he's spearing you right here That's a different like different level of impact, man Stuff looks brutal as hell. So I love his his spears his rogue spears as we're gonna call them. Um The fighting in the virtual crowd area. I thought that was cool. They're just going up the level hitting each other's heads off the little led screens, man just brutal stuff I was enjoying it at this point. I'm hooked uh Where kevin owens kevin hits roman Multiple times with a steel chair up on the upper platforms in the virtual crowd in the knees Smart thinking it's the last man standing match. How about I just take out your knees?  So he's brutalizing his legs, man It was it was it was smart tactics. I like that. I like he he's using his brain It's not just mindless violence. All right. It's the last man standing match Let me use a weapon of choice to make sure you can't stand up I like that. All right.  I almost like to I want to say it was like the second level Maybe second to third like second level on smackdown From the virtual stands all the way down to the ground below through some tables This time they was even higher and roaming through kevin off all the way down to the tables Oh my god, man The impact on that sounded so brutal. This was higher than it was on smackdown Don't even know how he got up because I wouldn't have got up They probably went at the car to be off to the hospital.   They're just following kevin at this point This caught me off. So guard. This is what this is where Production comes in the key and framing your shots. Like I said, they're just following kevin You don't know where roman is like this backstage practice ring area and all of a sudden Roman raises in a golf cart And he hits kevin owens so hard kevin owens Flies like he hits like I can't even describe I'm trying to describe this best way I can so y'all can get a visual image if you haven't seen it Kevin gets hit so hard. He flies through the plexiglass on that's on the front of the The golf cart and just lands on the ground with a thud Like it was basically like just a just a massive just powerful Thud and those are not like the slow golf course. Those are the ones that can get some speed He hit him with a decent amount of speed broke the plexiglass. He just splats on the ground I'm like, I did not even see that coming. I thought that was a nice surprise spot. That was pretty pretty cool. Not gonna lie to you so at this point Kevin is still not giving up as I expected He's leaning on this table in the back area and I thought this was so funny, bro he hit Roman Reigns over with a random clipboard that was laying on the table.  Just hit him with a clipboard I thought that was funny.  Then this is when things like really ramp up because at this point Roman's in control.  He went through the plexiglass Now he's over there still barely trying to stand up Roman is talking so much trash and this is why I told dubb He went make a rogue in my opinion. The dude started talking about his kevin owens dead family members That is how you build a hill Kevin Owens family members. We all know the promo the emotional promo He was talking about about his grandfather about his dad and how much they were there for him And all this other stuff how he has the initials tatted on his knuckles and He's over there like basically like yo Yo, your pops. Would he be proud of this like just really just being disrespectful and it was so Good dog and when that happened Kevin Owens, he just went into a blind rage He just went insane. He just went into a blind rage started attacking Started just just hammering Roman Reigns with fists.  He's attacking roman. He's not showing no mercy, bro This was nice. He sets him up on the table He goes on like these little little top containers. He gets on It's a nice little frog frog splash all the way to kevin I mean all the way to roman range through the table roman Reigns is heaving in pain That's a lot of weight so I can understand And at this point kevin is showing no mercy. He's like All right, we're not done.  All right, so here's when things get just Oh, so nice man. This was a beautiful beautiful spot kevin owens Gets this forklift Mind you roman reigns is on another table now He's just propped up on another table because that's the only way he was able to get to the tent count kevin owens drives his forklift raises it all the crane all the way to the top He climbs up there gets on the very top and I love this line. He says my dad Sends Sends his best bitch like since his best regard.  This is for my dad.  I love that, bro. This was so good beautiful beautiful spot roman at this point is looking like he's about to lose this match he's just I'm sorry. That's a lot of weight. I'm not even trying to be funny from someone to literally hit that on you from that height Ridiculous don't know how if he doesn't even have broken ribs. Like that was ridiculous, bro So roman still somehow able to make it to the tent count So kevin gets them up. They're about they're about to go back to you know to the actual ring area And kevin is talking trash. He was like whose blood is this on your face? It's not mine This must be the tribals blood like this was so good because kevin is he's in this mode like yo, bro You have fired me up now.   You know saying you I thought you was going to do this to me Roman Reigns slightly busted open a little bit this hour should be it's a brutal match. All right So they get to the stage area. I kind of knew where they were setting this up You can kind of tell the way they was positioned that somebody was going to get speared either off the stage Or through like the led because they were front in the led lights and of course roman Reigns sets it up Spears kevin owens through led lights nice little spot. None too crazy Now i'm thinking in my head kevin owens hasn't gotten up and it's like at the eight count Like he hasn't even stirred and then it's at the nine count I was like bro, is it gonna end like this and the way they position the camera once again? That's always important. You can't really tell that the edge of the stage is where kevin owens is at So when he gets to nine all he does is rolls over and he's on his feet because the stage is not that high I was like that was smart. That was smart. I like that spot. That was that was pretty cool. Didn't see that coming so All right, uh where we at next. All right, so he rolls off just in time Then roman reigns gets some cuffs. We're about to see some more cuffs cuffs again, you know what i'm saying When it comes to cuffs kevin owens doesn't do too well so uh, uh kevin owens Hand cuffs roman reigns feels like to still support being posed where the lights are so and he handcuffs them at the very Lowest point so it'll be so hard for even roman to stand up. Damn. They're physically impossible so he can't get up and the match is over From this technical standpoint tech on this technicality It's over because roman can't physically stand up because he handcuffed them to the lowest part Right when it gets to like nine And I laughed at this because I thought this was so funny roman pulls the ref Towards him and the ref ends up hitting this other support beam. He goes face first into the support beam and I was like, oh That's how he's gonna win I knew that had to be some way because he was about to lose and then of course kevin goes over there to You know finish the job. He gets hit with a low blow. I'm sorry Doesn't matter who you are unless you got a steel cup on but you never understood why wrestlers didn't just wear a steel cup Hey, you can't low blow me if I got like a cup my guy, but he lows blows them kevins on the ground, of course paul hayman comes out there with the keys to unleash roman reigns from the situation and then of course roman hits kevin with the guillotine He locks it in is cinched in tight the match is over at this point because kevin is not waking out of that This is a nice submission move. He ends up winning the match that way Even though it's a no dq he ends up winning by heel tactics and roman reigns retains the title man But kevin owens looked incredibly strong because this was actually one of the very I think the first time we've seen roman reigns since this new character this new heel turn Y'all probably wondering why I just did that. So I don't know if you've seen early in the video.  That's crazy. I'm still keeping that into I don't give it down but yeah roman once again retains as I thought and kevin owens looks incredibly strong as he should He did his thing man Yeah, man, I think the feud is over at this point Honestly, they they don't need a fourth match because kevin's not winning But they made the ultimate baby face and kevin didn't look bad in defeat You knew roman was gonna find a way to win. So I enjoyed this match. This was fantastic I suggest you guys go watch this match if you don't check out anything else on the world rumble Check this match out. It's 30 minutes of entertainment. I love this match Looking forward to seeing what roman has to say on this uh week's smackdown And last but not least of course the men's world rumble. Let's get into it. It was cool to see edge come out as number one Beautiful beautiful beautiful. He comes out as number one, right? And who else should come out as number two? None other than randy or the guy that put edge on the shelf Randy doesn't even I mean it doesn't even wait for randy to come down a ramp He runs up the ramp and starts attacking him, which I understand That's what you do randy. You tried to end my career. So I am going to end you before you even get into this match When I say they were just going at it edge I love the one thing I've always liked about edge his his facial expressions are some of the best, bro Like he looks like a deranged Individual when he's upset and then rage he starts doing this y'all know the motion He starts doing a little hair motion and pulling on his hair his eyes get big He just looks deranged and I love it He it wasn't when he saw randy the story that was portraying. I'm not even trying to win I'm just trying to end you because you tried to end my career.  I'm going to show you why you You made a bad judgment call and I love this loved it so much that that was the overlining thing For the first part of this of the man's royal rumble brown When I say edge was showing no mercy. I have these as notes Edge is showing no mercy, bro Any like he's not even like they're getting a ring They'll get under the ropes and he's just he's not worried about anybody else.  It was so beautiful Of course, they set it up where of course they had to take him to the back because he was medically hurt So they set it up and that's how they got randy out of the match the majority of the match But you knew randy was going to come back. Uh, it was cool to see carlito That was interesting carlito return. He looks like he's in great shape. You know what I'm saying? Looks more bulked up than he was when he was here in wwe His gimmick was always mid-cardish at best, but it was cool. You know, so it was cool to see carlito in the mix Um Bad bunny segment was cringe I know they had a performance and I've actually randomly just happened to see the video where bad bunny had booker tea In uh in his music video his actual music video and he was literally in the video booker cheese is sitting there With his arms crossed the entire video So it was kind of cool to see them perform that And booker cheese is sitting there with his arm crossed on the stage as bad bunny is performing that but apparently Miz and morson did something to bad bunny's dj equipment or whatever So he's coming out there to address some things and then of course miz and morson get eliminated and then uh Bad bunny does a uh top rope splash to both miz and morson Outside the ring. I did not care for that segment. It takes away from what's going on It's cool to have celebrities and entertainers in wrestling, but Not in that capacity. I I didn't care for that. That was just All right, cool, whatever next matt riddle going against shinsuke thought that was a nice exchange. We all know Now I think that would be a pretty good match. They are very stiff Very stiff in how they you know, they perform their moves I would love to see more of matt riddle in uh shinsuke go at it. Um Of course daniel bryan was my pick to win the royal rumble. I thought he was I'm getting to that later on Um, I don't know why kane is here Why is kane in the match? Why was hurricane? What was that dude named? I forgot his name the hurricane. Why was he in the match?  Why are they in the match? Tell me somebody comment down below. Let me know why were they all right, bro Christian returning. I thought that was cool. Edge and christian having their little, you know, their little nostalgia moment back in the ring I thought that was cool. Um Dominic eliminating corbin All right, nice, you know given some dom Dominic some momentum But here's when things get really kind of weird for me And this is why I always said sometimes in wrestling You don't want to be too hokey because you kind of ruin Future potential feuds matches and setups So you guys remember how ray mysterio had been walking around with this blacked out section of his mask because his eye was You know, you know was messed up.  I want y'all understand Your eye will never just be fine if it almost pops out, bro Like Not a let alone for a competition It's hard to like it never been touched bro. Mind you. Here's the thing, bro This scef was using his body weight to push his eye Out on the corner of some steel steps. I want you to understand that is brutal If anything your eye would probably just be destroyed if it popped out And it but the optical nerve was attached. That's what they said medically It popped out, but the optical nerve was attached. So he's fine. I'm sorry, bro You're not coming back next year to be in the royal rumble dog and your eyes just fine It's so fine that you're able to put contacts in Cause Ray has contacts in This is why matches like that shouldn't exist because you just have to question why When isn't it when is I just go? All right, all right back to the rest of this dog Seth Rollins returns as number 29 in the royal rumble. It was cool. He's still in his heel gimmick, which is good Um So it'll be interesting to see what fuse he he spark up in the future. I'm looking forward to that Daniel brian versus Matt riddle, bro That was a nice exchange and I actually would like to see a match between those two Comment down below if y'all would love to see a match between those two They were putting on a wrestling clinic. That is what I like to see very stiff Very hard hitting but they can do some ground and prowl Ground and pound rat like matte maneuvers. They're they're literally just going into submission to submission very fantastic. Enjoy that all right, um Seth eliminating Daniel brian that kind of hurt my heart man I wanted Daniel brian D by the win it bro. I was like dammit, man I wanted him to win it so he can go to wrestle mania So I'm not sure what he does at wrestle mania, but we will see Then I want to say it's down to the last Yeah, it's down to the last two because they um brawn stromen ends up getting eliminated But it's down to the last two between seth and uh edge right Seth You know, they're going back and forth and I think that's a good future match in my opinion seth versus edge I think that would be fantastic too um Seth is going for the stomp edge is able to flip him over Over the top rope. So you think edge wins now in my mind I was like well randy or never got eliminated and like I said camera work is key out of nowhere literally out of nowhere Randy already hits a massive rko You're thinking all randy's gonna steal another one bro. He's going to win the royal rumble again and on and somehow Some way edge was able to recover enough to Sin randy orden flying over the top rope.  It was that's how you get your redemption. You took me out of the game for months I come back and I went in the royal rumble and what makes this so so Like Special I think he's one of three if I'm not mistaken. I believe he's one of three wrestlers to ever enter in at number one the enter in at number one and Last the entire way through to win the royal rumble And what makes this even more sentimentally like like on a sentimental tip It was 11 years to the day to the date That's when he won his last royal rumble He won his last royal rumble 11 years to the date to the uh from yesterday So that to me that is poetic If if I've ever seen it like to win your second royal rumble 11 years ago to the exact day That is that is dope. That is amazing It's it's cool to see edge Back where he belongs in the wwe and I'm not even mad with that I'm not even mad with him winning the royal rumble I thought that was cool a beautiful touch. You can see he was emotional. You can see he was passionate and I'm all for it, bro. I am all for it. I think he's gonna probably go against drew I'm willing to bet he's gonna go against drew and it makes sense to go against through because he said, yo I'm going for the title. I never lost because he had to relinquish the championship to retire So he's like, yo, I'm going for the wwe championship. I think I'm off of that I'm off of that now if he was to go against roman that would be cool But I don't think he needs to go against roman. I think the universal championship That's a in my opinion the new age the new The new age championship But if it's somebody that grew up in the attitude era, there's only one championship They should ever really be going for it and as none other than the wwe championship So I would love to see edge Versus drew comment down below. Let me know who y'all think it should go for Roman Reigns or drew McIntyre my money's on drew. I think that would be a fantastic match And if there's anybody that drew should drop it to I would not be opposed to him losing to edge. I know you guys would be like, but wait a minute You know saying we're supposed to be building up new stars. You're right You're right. I get you that but there's certain people that you would not oppose to having one more run Edge never really got to finish off his run because he got hurt Not once but twice he got hurt recently when he came back to the wwe And then he got hurt 10 years ago. So he had to relinquish the title So if there's anybody that I would be okay with at least having one more run Would be edge now edge could do drew a solid and I wouldn't be opposed to that Say drew beats edge at the royal at russel mania Now that is an alcolyte that drew could really hang his head on he beat edge And edges, you know a formidable opponent. So, you know, definitely a future hall of fame a multi-time champion You know who edge is, you know what I'm saying? So That can it could go either way either outcome. I don't really care as long as they choose drew now If they do choose roman, I think that would be amazing too. I don't know. We'll see man I'm looking forward to seeing who Edge will choose to face at russel mania My money's on drew McIntyre, but overall the show was enjoyable The only thing I didn't really care for is the old berg match and I'm sorry that drew was just on the back burner here He should have had a better opponent for the royal rumble But honestly and we want to keep it a buck the only matches you really need to watch the men's royal rumble the women's royal rumble and The last man standing match both the men's and women's Matt a royal rumble matches are hour long and the last man standing matches like 30 plus is like around 30 35 minutes So that's two hours and 30 minutes of actual entertaining wrestling I think a lot of people would enjoy but overall for the matches that I did see I enjoyed this show And it's a thumbs up for me, man It was a great way to start off my morning and I wanted to definitely Make sure I got this video out for you guys today So comment down below. Let me know if you guys enjoyed the royal rumble And if you guys are looking forward to monday night raw and smackdown this week And and on the monday night raw, but smackdown I'm definitely looking forward to but I appreciate all the love and support you guys have been amazing And um, I appreciate y'all kicking it with me. I'll see y'all on the next one. Peace


Hello, and welcome to another episode of Into the Issues. I'm your host, Steve Pappas, the editor of the Times Argus and the Rutland Herald. And my guest today has been a regular here at Orca Media. Rick Winston, Rick, thank you for joining me. Well, thank you for the invitation, Steve. So you and I have known each other mostly over email for several years because you do a regular puzzle for the Times Argus and Rutland Herald's weekend edition. That's right. That's been happening now into its 13th year, twice a month, yeah. It has been 13 years. And I'm still running into people have no idea that it's there, even who read the Argus regularly, so I don't know. Well, we appreciate it because the puzzles may be the one thing that all of our readers tend to do. Puzzles in the comics are the things they hear about the most. But we're going to come back to talking about puzzling. I want to take a little trip down memory lane with you because you were a part of a kind of pivotal moment in Montpelier's history, if you will, as far as kind of the beginning of a foundation of commerce in the city that has endured till today. You founded and ran the Savoy Theater for many years, but at the same time that you were doing that, we had Butch Speeler starting up, Bear Pond starting up, Onion River Sports starting up. I'm sure I'm leaving somebody out, but there was a horn of the moon, right? And there was kind of a group of you. It was that commerce was always lively in Montpelier. In fact, I miss some of the stories that aren't there anymore, like Greys, for instance. But this was the generation of people who either graduated from Goddard and stuck around or the people who gravitated up here because they knew people who went to Goddard and I'm falling to that category. I was already out of college by the time I moved up here. And it was kind of the counterculture of putting down roots in Montpelier, not just a back to the land. When I moved up here, kind of the cultural center of music and lectures and art and everything was very much centered in Plainfield around Goddard. And one thing I saw in the 70s was gradually moving into Montpelier. And you take a look back after many years and you say, oh, yeah, I guess I was a part of that. Because the precursor to the Savoy was the Lightning Ridge Film Society, which was every Friday night at that pavilion auditorium. So I did that for eight years before the opportunity came to start the Savoy in the winter of 8081. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about how that came about. You are known around the area as a film historian. You've had a show here on Orca Media that was about films. Where does that come from? Where is your passion for celluloid to come from? Well, a lot of it is an accident of birth, growing up in the suburbs of New York City, where there were several independent channels on TV who all filled up their time showing all movies. So I got into old movies at a very young age. There was a wonderful show that was New York and environs, called Million Dollar Movie. And Martin Sorsese credits it with getting him into movies. John Turturro says, that's why I became an actor. They would take one movie and show it every night of the week at 7 o'clock. And then two matinees on the weekend. So Sorsese said, if you were into this show, you became a film critic without even knowing what being a film critic meant. Because you liked something. He was like, oh, it's 8 o'clock. That scene I really like is coming around. Anyway, also my father was one of these people who remembered every movie he ever saw and the circumstances under which he saw it. He could recount plots. And then I went up going to school first at Columbia University in New York and then transferred to University of California in Berkeley, two of the best places imaginable to see old movies. So by the time I arrived in Vermont and saw that there was no where to sit, I got really spoiled seeing a movie any night of the week if I wanted to and that led to starting a film society. Yeah. And how hard was that to do at the time? Well, it actually wasn't hard at all. And I got the idea and said, hmm, I wonder what would be involved in showing movies. And I think I walked in cold to the newly formed Vermont Council on the Arts. I think they had been around since maybe 68, 69. This would have been 72. And had the good fortune to meet Ellen McCulloch Lovell, who is still around. Yeah. And she said, well, let's see. There's this wonderful pavilion auditorium that's got 200 seats. But you need a state sponsor to do that. Well, we can be the sponsor. And then I knew the one-man film department of Goddard at the time was Walter Unger. And he said, well, here are my film catalogs. And this is how I order films. And this is what you have to do. And it just all fell into place. And then I had to figure out where to borrow projectors and the regional library in Berlin, which doesn't exist anymore. And they forget where the other one was from. But it all came together. And to hit right out of the gate? To hit right out of the gate. It was clearly something that people were waiting for. Yeah. And it's always been independent. You've always kind of had a passion for independent film. Yes. At the film society, the film society was a hit out of the gate. The Savoy, the first week was a novelty, but that bore off pretty quickly. It was a struggle right out of the gate, I should say. But at the film society, I programmed a mix of some indie films. And this was before the real indie movement started. So a lot of Hollywood classics and then more recent Hollywood films that were like 10 years old, foreign films that we're just getting into, you could get a 16 millimeter print. So it was some old, some new. And that was the intention of the programming at the Savoy to begin with, that it was going to be the same kind of eclectic mix. It became very clear within five or six months that people wanted to see the new movies. And so it quickly became a mix of new, foreign, and new American. And then it was, we just happened to coincide with the emergence of people like Spike Lee, Jim Jarmusch, John Sayles. And there was a tremendous appetite for those films. You also came into it at a time where videotapes were starting to compete to a certain degree. That was 19, we can sort of date. 1985 is when the first video store opened in Montpelier. And that was a real challenge because, well, gee, you can put on your own Alfred Hitchcock Festival at home. What do you need to go to a theater for? Right. A few years after that, 1988, it was, our friends down in Northampton who ran Pleasant Street Theater, and they had started their own video store at next door, Pleasant Street Video. And the owner of the Pleasant Street Theater said, trust me on this one. You will not be in competition with yourself if you open your own video store. People will want to take out videos five nights of the week. But on Saturday night, they want to see the new movie. And so that's when we opened Downstairs Video in 1989. Yep, well, you walked right into the subway on that one. And that became a very pivotal piece of, again, Montpelier culture was that they could go to the blockbusters around the corner. They could come to your theater to see the new, independent, new foreign. And you had an amazing collection of videos downstairs. Yeah, we were very proud of that collection. My wife, Andrea, threw out, and I put together that collection. And it's still a lot of the heart of that collection is still at the Montpelier Senior Center. If you're a member of the Senior Center or of the Savoy, you have rental privileges there. Yeah, and at some point, you did step away from it. Yeah, well, you know, I guess this is what it means to have lived long enough to see historical epics start and end. We saw the beginning of the VHS. You know, if we had opened our video store a year earlier, we would have had to get half VHS and half beta tapes. By the time it was time to open, nobody was getting it. Beta was gone. Beta was gone. Then five years later, the first DVD. And then we watched the whole cycle of then streaming. And uh-oh, nobody is renting videos anymore. So now there are hardly any video stores left anywhere. Yeah. Is there one movie that has had a tremendous influence on you personally? Or let me frame it differently. What was the first movie that had a tremendous influence on you? Well, it's funny you should say that, because sitting in this room, remembering the show I did with Bill Marranci, our very first show was we each picked two movies that were very crucial in our becoming film buffs ourselves. Bill picked Forbidden Planet and The African Queen, which was the first movie his parents took him to. And for me, it was Citizen Kane, which I saw every night on that show Million Dollar movie, and Rear Window, which was my first Hitchcock movie. And my parents, in their blessed ignorance, took me to see it when I was seven years old. And I did not have nightmares, as many kids might have. But I think that really started me on my journey as a film buff. Those are four great movies. Your two are among my favorites.  Yes, that's right. And Rear Window does make you wonder what was in those two case, what was in the two case all that time. But so getting back to, again, Montpelier at that time and that Montpelier really wanted that kind of culture, it's never, it's really been blessed since, because it hasn't left. I mean, you and a lot of folks who brought these things to Montpelier, the things that became the pillars of the community are still here. The Savoy is still here. You know, it's always a question whether the institution can outlive the founder. And, you know, during the 90s and into the aughts, periodically I would get together with Fred Wilbur, who owned Bookspealer, Mike Katzenberg, who owned Bear Pond. And we would commiserate about how technology was changing each of our endeavors and how long we could hold out. And now all three places are thriving with new blood and hopefully far into the future. Yeah, I mean, Bear Pond is, people come a long way to be a part of that as well. So of course, Bear Pond at that point was across the street where Down Home is now. That was its original location. And so looking ahead to where we're looking to the present, and while we can say that there have been these institutions that have been here, how do you feel that Montpelier has changed since you started your business here all those years ago? Or has it? Oh, it definitely has changed. And it's hard to separate out what you would rather not have, because it's all part of the... Right. There were people who came up in the 70s and stayed. And then because of those institutions, people started thinking about Montpelier as a place to move to and raise families. And now it's often I will go to the movies and will not recognize very many people there. Whenever I hear about a new restaurant opening, I say, oh, another restaurant. Do we really need another restaurant? So we were talking before the show about it used to be the Stockyard and the Lobster Pod, and that was about it. Right. I arrived here just as the Miss Montpelier diner is getting torn down. Anyway, so I hope Montpelier does not become too trendy. I think it already has. And we used to hear from some of our younger employees that it was really hard to find an affordable place to live, to rent especially. I think that also is still true. Yeah, so that's something I would hope can change. Yeah. So one more quick question about that. Do you think that because of the way that Montpelier is between having the state employees and over the years becoming kind of a destination community but having that base of a strong base of community here, do you think that the businesses that were started at that time, your contemporaries, all did well because it was Montpelier? Do you think that that model would have worked in other places as well? That's a good question. There was definitely a certain DNA, a certain mix, as you said. State employees had a lot to do with it. The number of Goddard grads who stuck around had a lot to do with it. The backs of the landers and Montpelier's growth as a kind of a white-collar community. Because I can't imagine it working in Barrie, for example. Yes, well, there's a whole other show for you. Right, exactly. Right. You know, I think it was, I'm not sure that this was original to Mary Hooper, but she said that great places don't happen by accident. Yeah. And there is, I see it when I bring, just the other day, had people visiting from out of town and walking down. This is a really interesting town. This is like, look, look at the architecture and all the storefronts are full. And you go to some places in Maine or upstate New York that may have the same population base as Montpelier. And they are really struggling in a way that Montpelier is not. For sure. Let's talk a little bit about, I want to switch gears almost entirely, although some of your puzzles have to do with films occasionally. How did you, first of all, become interested in puzzles? And secondly, how do you come up with these and kind of walk us through that process? Because these are not simple puzzles. Well, I enjoy doing these, I always enjoy doing crossword puzzles. But these crostic puzzles, which are different, there's a quote that you have to figure out what the quote is. You answer a number of clues and the answers are keyed. So you put the letters in the, you know.  So the head of every answer from A down to Z, if it goes that far, will spell out the name of the author and the name of the source. So unlike a crossword puzzle, there are different ways to solve it. You can solve it by figuring out the author in the source. You can get, you can do some guesswork and keep going back and forth from the grid to the clues. A lot easier to show, maybe I'll bring in a graphic for them to put up while we're talking. Anyway, there was a guy who used to do it in the New York Times named Thomas Middleton. I used to subscribe to the Progressive Magazine and they had a couple who were doing it. And they are now the couple that had been doing it in the New York Times for the last 20 years. Henry Rathvin and Emily Cox, they are the masters. And I got to thinking, how does anybody do that? It's the same impulse you hear about kids taking apart a radio and seeing if they can put it back together. So I was never electronically inclined, so that never appealed to me. But OK, so it's got to be a quote of approximately 170, 180 letters in the quote. It's got to be pithy. It's got to stand by itself. And because it has to include the name of the author and the name of the source, it's got to include those letters that are in the author's name.  Yeah. And I had a wonderful editor at the Times Argus who's moved on since. We were his hair. And we met and she said, how about if just to make it more accessible, these are on Vermont Themes or by Vermont authors. I said, OK, I'll give that a try. And that kind of coincided with the explosion of authors around living in central Vermont and Burlington. So I have not run out. And there's always a new Vermont book. I just saw two at Bear Pond that they're having speakers. So they were just a lot of fun to put together. It's great brain exercise. And it's as much of a puzzle to construct it as it is to solve it. That seems obvious. Yeah. But what always amuses me is I walk down the street. And one person will say, that was really too hard last Sunday. I had to look up. And then 10 minutes later, run into it. That was really so easy. Can't you make them a little harder? That's great, actually. Yeah. So it has a lot to do with the solvers. If there are baseball clues in there or movie clues or jazz standards or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And they are hard. I don't think I've ever finished one. No. But part of that is my own impatience.  But they definitely require me to think a little bit more. Yeah. I have just a quick funny story. I used a quote from a book, A Friend of Mine, who had written, I won't identify him. Really, one of the most brilliant people that I know. And I said, I made this puzzle. I'll give it to you. I can't do those things. I'll give it to my editor. He can do it for me. That's a good editor right there. Yeah. So anyway, I guess I'm going to keep doing it as long as there's room in there and a welcome mat. It's there. And in your own right, you've written your own book that came out recently, Ritz-Gear on the Green Mountains. And what was your interest in? What spurred that particular? Well, if you trace it back far enough, my interest in the McCarthy era or the Red Scare era, and how you want to term it, it goes back to my parents who had their own difficulties during this era. They were both New York City school teachers. My father lost his job because of his politics. And my mother almost lost hers. It was kind of an accident of timing that she got to keep hers and keep teaching until retirement. So it was something I was always aware that affected my family a lot. And I moved to Vermont, not knowing very much about Vermont politics. The stereotype is, oh, they're really, they're all Republicans up there. Well, you find out very quickly there are all kinds of shades of the Republican Party in Vermont. And there certainly were in 1970. And it was the end of the Philhoff era. And then Dean Davis and NAC 250, that was the first year I moved here. So I kept it in the back of my mind, gee, I wonder what happened here during that time. And then I was fortunate enough to meet two people who shared my interest. One was the late Richard Hathaway, who taught for many years at Goddard and Vermont College. And Michael Sherman, who was the executive director of the Vermont Historical Society. So the three of us put on a conference about Vermont and the McCarthy era at the end of 1988. And it just kind of marinated since then. And I said, maybe after the theater is not doing the theater, I'll go back to that and do some more digging and see what's there. And one thing led to another. And there was the book. Yeah. And it's great for folks who haven't read it. You should pick up a copy at Bearpond Books. They have it. It really is great. And obviously, I look at it from one of you have not just history, but journalism plays a key role in the book. Yes. The Rutland Herald in particular. Yes. And a lot of the most striking, courageous figures in the book, Robert Mitchell, who editor and publisher of the Rutland Herald for many years, and John Drysdale at the White River Valley Herald, Bernardo Shea up in Swanton. So that was a real great discovery for me to see how many wonderful independent and independent minded newspapers there were in Vermont at this time. Yeah. Well, just how many newspapers. We only have a few minutes left when you see what's going on in the world today. I want to hide. Yeah. In knowing what you know about what can happen and what had happened here, it has to be terrifying. Yeah. Well, I said in the afterward of my book that I first became aware of Vermont as an idea when I was in high school, and I read Sinclair Lewis's book, It Can't Happen Here, which was written in 1935. It took place in Vermont. And it's about a fascist takeover of the US government. And I think those lessons are clear. Somebody, I saw, said, democracy is not something that is handed to you. You have to actively fight for it constantly. So I think that's what we're up against these days. It certainly feels that way. Yeah. Well, we only have a minute left. What's next for you? You've got puzzles. You've got another book. You've got another.  So we'll see. Maybe. That seems like an excellent idea. But for now, I'm teaching film history at the Montpellier Senior Activity Center. That's going to be me busy doing lectures around the state on various film topics. You did a nice one on journalism films at the Aldrich. At the Aldrich Art. So which I know I appreciated. Well, Rick Winston, thank you very much for joining us and having this discussion. It's a trip down memory lane, I guess, as it were. All right. Thank you so much, Steve. Thank you. And thank you for tuning into another edition of Into the Issues. Until next time, thanks for watching. 15 seconds left, right on the money.