Fen ydych chi'n ffordd ar gyfer yr ysgol. Mae'n gweithio'r cyfan a gwneud mewn gweithio gw situationaeth. Fe'r bwynghbwr diwethaf neu byddwch ar ei clywed fel cyddiadau. Mae'n gweithio'r gweithio'n gwneud roedd ein gweithio. Mae'r brifwpl yn ôl i'r cweithwi Pwyl, gallai gyfael ar gyfer y gweithio ac'r cwil gyda Llesin, ac hynny'n amlwg stance ag os ydych chi'n gweithio'r grwm. Felly mae oes yn rwyta i gynnwys ddweud i'r ddweud ysgolwyddon, byddwn i'n rhaid i'w dyfyrdd iawn sydd wedi'u cofodd yn byw y gweithio. Rwy'n rhaid i'w ddweud i'r Sabun yn rhaid i'ch ei ddweud. Ond yna, mae adrecheis. Ond. Mae gennym hwn yn rhaid i'n gwych. Mae'n ddweud. Ond rhaid i'r ddweud i'w ddweud i rŵr. Rŵrwmplowe yn yw'r profesywr ar gyfer ond erbyn chyflwylo sydd y LSE, O'r reis ei rhoi o disgylchedd diolchol iawn i g someplaceau mewn mynd i unrhyw un a'r unwyddo. Yn y ffawr mae'r reis wedi'u rhoi'r ysgrifennyddol a ffawr mae'r mwyfrin yn torfodd lofi, eu feministau a'r afgwyll yng Nghymru. ac ydw i'n gwirio'r newydd yw dyfodol yma bwrdd y gweithbeth o'r panflawn o sisiol yn gwirio'r ysgrifennyddol, yn hyd ar geifrydau warn nesafам. It works out how humanitarian organizations come to learn from and intervene in urban areas. She's currently on a British Academy fellowship and has a podcast series called Displacement Urbanism, that I hear is very good. So, David has joined us online, wonderful. You're not visible on this, on our big screen, but I can see that you're here, and we will pin you up on the screen later once we've been through our slide. So, David Ogry is an Interregional Advisor at Unhabitat, I'm providing technical and policy advice on a broad range of urban issues, including forced displacement in cities. I'm previously headed up UN Habitat's regional office to Arab States and prior to that, UN Habitat's country programme in Iraq, where he led UN's work on land, housing and shelter. So I'm going to move my slides, go to my slideshows. Is this all interesting? I'm going to go through this. Great, thank you. So working on issues of displacement, so by that, I mean refugees and internally displaced people, IDPs and other migrants. The intersection of cities and displacement is relatively new for IID, but this work started, this engagement with the humanitarian issues began around 2015 with the Urban Crisis programme that IID led in collaboration with the International Rescue Committee with funding from then DFID, Department for International Development. And this work was documenting experiences of city stakeholders responding to crises. And there were a series of case studies and papers that were published, many of them published as working papers, but a selection also were in this special issue of ENU. So the title of it was Towards More Effective Humanitarian Response to Urban Crisis. And many of the papers in that issue do have links to urban planning. So I hope that as I wouldn't be able to see my own slides while I was doing this, I'm going to have to do a slightly odd head turn. But for example, there's a really interesting paper, a series of papers came out external to ENU, but also in ENU, thank you, about area-based approaches. So if you're an urban development person, this is just the way you work. You take a neighbourhood, a city, you think about it holistically, the different services available, the different populations. If you're a humanitarian, you don't necessarily think like that. And you may actually focus more on people you consider to be disaster affected rather than taking into consideration that disasters affect people in different ways, movements of people in one place of a city to another, means that it's very hard to know who's affected and who's not. There's also an article in there about making markets work for displaced people in cities, thinking more about integrating the economies of displaced people, IDPs in this instance, into planning for the economic planning in the city. There's some work that we documented around participatory planning post-disaster and a great piece also, and Maggie, who's been asking questions, was involved in documenting community engagement and planning post-earthquake response in Haiti. And some papers around surging planning expertise in disaster response. And what's interesting is the editorial also makes the point that the tools of urban planning are very relevant for humanitarians and they really call for better collaboration and joint planning between local governments and responders to crisis as a way to meet long-term urban sustainable development goals or at the very least, not to contribute to urban fragility and vulnerability. And so that seems like quite a natural progression, actually, of the work at IID. If you think about all this work over the many decades about building resilience in urban areas, so the idea is how you integrate humanitarian response into planning for safer, more resilient towns and cities. So this work on the urban crisis programme actually led to more research. I haven't got it all up here, but the two main projects that are sort of building on this are both about urban displacement. So the one protracted displacement in an urban world. This is a comparative project looking at the well-being and livelihoods of refugees and IDPs in camps and urban areas in four countries, because Afghanistan, Jordan, Kenya and Ethiopia. And another project also in Jordan that is a comparison of spending on water and sanitation in a camp and a zattery camp in a mafret city. And the idea behind these projects is really to help. Well, there are many big projects. Actually, the one on the left is a very big project, but one of the aims of the project is to help communist parties by providing them with more data on needs of displaced people, their contributions and their aspirations. And both these projects are comparative, the comparison between the camp and the urban. And it's actually in examining these different sites of displacement in parallel, triggered a series of conversations and some thoughts about city and territorial planning. Now, this is where I confess that I'm not a planner, but for some reason, about five years ago, I decided to do an MSc in urban planning. I took me a really long time to do it. And I did it because I wanted to understand more about the world of planners and what they do and how they contribute. And I make some progress in that regard, but I'm not there yet. So I want to test some ideas and see where they might go. So one thing, first of all, is you can realise that is that going to disappear? Sorry, the two refugee camps, we can't quite see that. Five thousand kilometres apart is what it says. So one of the one on the left is in Dadaab in Kenya, a camp where we've been doing research and one on the right is our ASRAP camp in Jordan, where we wanted to do research, but we were not committed to, interestingly. So we ended up doing a research in Zatory. There's no coincidence that even though they're really far apart, they look quite remarkably similar. So they, these places have been designed for control. You put refugees in a camp really far away. You put a fence around it and you make refugees somebody else's problem and you make them pay for it. So basically you hand over these populations to the UN. And you say, well, we've let these people in and the UN afraid says what you need to see are the refugee agencies obviously doing all it can to keep borders open. And then when the government says, OK, let's put these people in a camp, traditionally, that is what has happened. But if you put people in a camp, you exclude, you exclude them from economies, from being able to move. You purposely sort of plan them out of your country in a way. But then we also know through our own research, but just generally it's well known that most refugees are not in camps, but data is not reliable, but people use the phrase 60 percent, the majority of the world's refugees not in camps. And but in most countries, if they leave or circumsent the camps, they end up living in informality. I'm not working here. Dear, I'd like to come to my next slide. Is there a way of doing it manually on that? Anything to say? OK, well, my next slide is a photo of two, they're both from the Middle East. And in one slide, there is a picture of a woman living in an informal, in unfinished building. And in the other, a picture of where people have built their homes on shelters on top of roofs or kind of in spaces or filling in spaces. There we are, not neither right. The one on the right is not very clear, but you can see people sort of filling in spaces in the urban fabric to find somewhere to live. And I want to tell a quick story about a recent visit to Amman, the capital of Jordan. Jordan does have camps. So it has that Azraic camp, that's actually camp and a few other small ones, but it has hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees living in cities. By far, the majority of the refugees in the country are in towns and cities. And unlike many places in the world, there are actually humanitarian resources going to refugees in the city and supporting services for them. But you're not seeing that sort of visibly in terms of the places where people are ending up living. And I wanted to explore what the greater Amman municipality, the municipal authority, knew about where resources were going, humanitarian resources in the city and who they were supporting, where they were going to. And perhaps I was naïvely thinking that they would be wanting to engage with this knowledge about knowing where things were going, because if significant numbers of people are coming into the city where you're working and bringing international resources with them, if I were a planner, I think, I would want to know where that money was going so that I can strategise, harmonise with our own development plans to the city, make sure resources are spent as efficiently as possible for the maximum number of people. But the response we got was, well, that's not really our business. That's decisions for people who are much higher up. And that's code in Amman for that's the king's business. And this is so politically sensitive that any decision around where refugees will go is taken at the highest level within the court. And this isn't unique to the Jordan context. So if you're in Kampala, as we were recently, and Boel has been there recently, if you talk to the Kampala City Authority, you'll get people recognising that there are other refugees in the city, but decisions, oh, that's taken by the office of the prime minister. So again, it's sort of somewhere else. And in Kenya, I just saw that our colleague Jack from Macau of MSTI has joined, and he's making great progress in encouraging the Nairobi County to think that refugees are their business. But still there is a tendency to say, well, refugees, that's the domain of the security services. So these worlds will remain apart. And I guess there's no perceived dividend to hosting refugees in the city. And we did also try and talk to them in the history of what we did talk to them, the history of planning in Jordan, just to ask how much money is going to camps, how much money is going to cities. And the answer is we don't have that information. And if you ask the UN about how much money is being spent on the camps, they don't want to say, and they possibly can't say either because they don't track their spending by location in a way that I would have thought would be an obvious thing to do. So I came away a bit perplexed. And I didn't wonder if we had this data, better data on where money was going, would we be able to avoid some of these situations? Would we be able to do some preemptive planning around where refugees could be in the city, what that might cost us? And I wondered about what opportunities we're missing about in the way things are done currently. So I want to turn over to Romola now. You've heard me speak too much today, I feel. And then Romola has been doing some related work and recently made visits to Greece and to Jordan and has worked in Lebanon and India on issues of urban displacement. And I want to just give Romola the opportunity just to chat about her, whether this resonates with her own experiences, what is happening with this intersection between humanitarian action and planning and what are we missing? What could we be doing differently? I'm going to pass this so it's closer to you, Romola. And I'll take my vote. Very good. Fine. I know how to fix things. There we go. It's working. It's working. It's working. Don't worry. Well, thank you everyone for being here and thank you to Lucy for inviting me for this. We did say that this was going to be a bit experimental, so forgive me if I waffle a bit. But I will do my very best to stick to time. I thought about what Lucy had wanted to ask me. And this is the question. I'm going to pick up on this point that Lucy raised about information about where people are going and why we can't get that information. And I agree that that has been my experience as well. And by and large, you find out where people are through ethnographic work. You are able to, if you spend enough time in the field, you're able to go into different neighbourhoods and people. In these cities will tell you, sort of off the record comments about where the majority of people who are displaced are living. But in many instances, I have heard people say that they, even though they do have maps and they can pinpoint down to specific buildings in which people are being housed in different places, they will not share that information. But I have to say that I do appreciate why they say that. And a lot of times, in many contexts, it has to do with security issues. In many countries, I think we may be well aware of the kind of hostility there are towards migrants and towards forced migrants as well. I know that that sort of division between what is considered economic and forced migrants is extremely artificial. But there is a tendency of being quite hostile towards migrants and refugees. And for that reason, a lot of NGOs and even city officials who do hold this information are not willing to share that information because they're afraid of those people being targeted and those neighbourhoods being targeted as well. So this might be one of the reasons why that information is not shared. I know that doesn't answer your question, but that has come back to me as sort of one of the reasons why. And I invariably will not ask them for that sort of locational information being attentive to that kind of security issue. So I think that that would be my response to why I hope to get that kind of information. But I think there's a sort of a there were sort of other questions and issues that come up in terms of thinking about sort of planning and that sort of intersection between planning and humanitarianism. And I think I sort of jot it down a couple of things here, which which I wanted to just highlight as a couple of things that come up in my work. And if I think about when, you know, when I have conversations about planning with humanitarians, the first thing that comes to mind is the word reluctance. Reluctant, and I will share an anecdote with you. I was at a conference a few months ago and it was and the conference was complete was basically a conference in which there were only humanitarian organizations and a couple of donor organizations who were involved. I was the only person who had anything to do with planning who was invited to that to that conference and even the people who were part of the the planning organizations and departments of the city were not invited. So at the end of this, I was asked to comment on on the conversations that had taken place over the last couple of days. And I said that I thought it was really surprising that everybody who was who was speaking were talking about things that planners would talk about, but they don't but they don't see themselves as doing planning. And the response I got was, was I have to say quite a hostile response. And it was hostile in that there were there were some people who really objected to my using the word planning because I think what a lot of humanitarians understand to be planning is much more physical planning. They see sort of infrastructure work. They see sort of large scale interventions as being what it what what is planning. They don't sort of see the kinds of work that many of us think about as planning the sort of issues around governance, the issues around thinking about local economic development on and so forth as lean planning issues, even and even though they're doing those kinds of work, they don't see that as being planning. And this is not this is this is not a one off. It reminded me of the fact that I have encountered this not hostility, but I have but I have seen this kind of mindset over and over again that whenever I've spoken to humanitarians and I have asked them about, you know, their work and the relationship to planners, it has always been a very oh, we don't do planning. We are not involved with planning. We're simply here for the for the short term of the medium term. And so there's enormous reluctance on their part to see what they do as being part of that planning universe. Then comes to the second point, which is about the medium termism, which is which is something that that again, I encountered in a lot of the work that I've seen is that I think we've had this conversation before that for planners, I think our intention really at the end of the day is to is to make a place vibrant to to make a place not just livable, but exciting in a place that that you would want to come to.  Does a very much more of a short termism in their thinking? And of course, now we're moving into durable solutions or we have moved into durable solutions. And there's a medium termism in there. And this has come out explicitly in some of the discussions that I've had in that many humanitarians will talk about how they can only do projects that are medium term because they're not allowed to do sort of infrastructure work that will be long term infrastructure. And so this, you know, they're they're hampered by that. And that again, you know, what one of the problems I think that that comes up is this is again this divide between what a humanitarian is supposed to do and what their funding enables them to do and what you would expect out of planning. If we believe that humanitarian funding is constantly shifting and it just moves from one crisis to another. I mean, you know, the money will go towards the next crisis and we'll be taken away from from another place and you'll see dips in funding. How do you then create planning programmes?  And again, it's something that a lot of organizations, NGOs that I've spoken to have raised that, you know, this kind of work in urban environments requires a significant engagement with communities over a long period of time. And they don't really have that if every year they have to renew a project with a donor. I'm actually going to stop there because I am conscious of times I'm going to stop. But I think that, you know, these are certainly some of the things that have come up when it comes to sort of direct discussions around planning that helps with the discussion. I think it definitely helps. Thank you, Ramila. Worry about touching this microphone in case I do what I did. And I want to I want to hand over now to David Orbray, who's joined us online. So David is someone who was a, is a built environment professional by back then. I think he said I'll protect and his work in urban design, but it's now working within the UN system and has some more positive, I think, examples of how we could use planning to create better, more vibrant, more livable places for people who are on the move. So, David, I'm going to hand over to you and you've got a couple of slides. So just let us know when you want just to put those up. The floor is yours. OK, thanks very much. Really sorry to Gatiw, I can't be with you. I'm flying to the UK tonight, like half a day too late. So I'm sorry for that. But it is a real, you know, feel very honoured to join you and see in a few familiar faces in the crowd, so that's great. Um, yeah, so I think I think it's been fairly well established now that's planning, urban planning, spatial planning, either as a social process or as a physical process or a bit of both is it needs to be integral in the work of responding to displacement. And I think displacement is becoming, sadly, much more of a norm. And so displacement needs to be an important consideration in planning, particularly in some places. And I think Lucy and I worked with Gyps on a paper for the Secretary General's panel on the internal displacement where we made a strong case for this. And now that there's been an appointed advisor, a special advisor to the Secretary General on displacement, we're seeing that he is very interested in really trying to bring this work on urban planning much stronger into displacement crisis. So I think it is moving and I appreciate what, you know, that planning takes many different forms. And I think as a social process, we've seen that as really being important in, for instance, in Lebanon, integrating urban refugees with host communities around public spaces and things like this. So they've been quite important processes of integration. But I want to talk a little bit about territorial planning. Well, it's not new that, you know, the competition for natural resources often leads results in conflict and with climate change, we're seeing this kind of becoming bigger. And there are a lot of places now where we're seeing, we're going from the idea of protracted crisis almost to perpetual crisis as droughts and conflict coexist and people seem to be endlessly on the move. And when you see Somalia, for example, I've been working a bit in Baidoa, and we see that that city has absolutely expanded, you know, tripled in size in the last 10 or 15 years. And people move to where they feel safe. They move to where they feel that they could have opportunities in life. They move to where there's some basic assets such as health and education and different things, but particularly security. And they move to where there's humanitarian support. So naturally, all over South West States and Somalia, people have been moving to Baidoa and the city has now grown at, I would say, an uncontrollable rate, and it's not sustainable. You know, when you have people digging holes for water naturally and the water table is reduced so rapidly and so deeply that there will be a time where that city cannot sustain itself anymore. And so we also find that because people tend to move to the larger cities in a lot of these situations, that is very difficult for them to return, especially if they're coming from a rural economy. And, you know, what about if we would try to understand displacement as a norm, as something that we have to deal with? Why don't we start understanding displacement not as a crisis that we need to respond to, but an important factor of planning, particularly in those countries that seem to be in perpetual crisis? And what about if people could move to places, smaller cities closer to their rural homes? What about if those places had those basic factors of education, health, maybe water, safety, security, humanitarian support? And this might be quite interesting because over time, you might find that even the sort of family economy might be more diverse.  And so you're not affected in the same way as a result of crisis and you might have places you might be able to respond better to a crisis and still be able to keep a hand on your rural economy and return to it. So the idea of proximity is quite important.  In fact, I was actually, I think there might be something coming up for the three of us there. But we started to map all the human settlements across seven or eight countries. And we've started to look at overlaying that with the typical movements of people as a result of conflict and as a result of drought. And if you go to the next slide, we've started to map the assets of those human settlements. So on the top axis horizontally, you've got all the stuff, all the public assets, you know, whether there's water, electricity, schools, hospitals, secondary schools and the rest of it. The things, the economic opportunities and the rest. And on the vertical axis, starting from large cities to small cities, we've started to map and so with that, we're able to start mapping what assets exist where. And then if we go back to the previous slide, if we can identify then where people are likely to move to and where if you go back to the previous slide, when you start understanding the distribution of assets, you might understand where people are moving to now and why some of the larger cities are growing very, very fast and why some of the smaller cities are not even moving. And then you can start looking at, you know, would there be more logical places for people to move to, closer to the place of origin, which would still be safe, which would still have the basic infrastructure that could have as a security, et cetera. And should we be sort of targeting investment into those areas in order to provide greater options for people on the move and also to take the pressure off the cities that are growing so fast that they're growing informally and through a sprawl. This I think requires a sort of a proactive approach and it requires development actors to work with humanitarian because it's key that people are still moving to cities because they get support there, but also to work with security and peacekeeping and that scale as well. So I'm just putting that out there, but I do think then this approach, displacement then could become a positive force for urbanisation in that by, through a territorial planning approach, you can start identifying market towns, places that could be market towns, places that could support a rural urban economy, rural urban value chains, and actually the movement of people to those places could actually be an asset to local and territorial economies. I'll leave it there as further food for thought. It is something that we started doing, so how will we start to do it in Somalia? And it's really about bringing the humanitarian actors, development actors, urban planners and also IFIs together with local and regional government in that conversation about how perpetual crisis can be dealt with or it can be a factor of displacement rather than a shock each time. Thank you. Thank you to Romlar as well. Am I right in thinking I've got about 15 minutes left for the session? So I guess I should first ask, have there been any questions online or is there anybody who's put their hand? We have one for Maggie. OK, Maggie, who's very good at asking difficult questions. So Maggie Stevenson, who I mentioned, we'd work with her on an IID publication about Haiti. Do you think you could track that data in the UK and cities? So is this the data of where people are moving to or the data of where spending is going, Maggie? You can unmute yourself and ask your, I think you can ask your question. You can have a show. Sorry for all the questions. You were talking about your expectation of data that would be available or data that would be possible or maybe even fast to collect. And I'm curious to know if you think the same is easily accessible in the UK. Or you would face similar challenges. I don't work in a UK context, but from the. I don't work in a UK context, but I. No, it was it was Lucy's point about it. I'm asking a lot of answers. Lucy is making me answer for her. I don't know. I think it is available to an extent. And I at the some of the some of the people I know who have been working on these issues. They have been able to access data. I mean, I think this is a question about humanitarian. Funding coming into Jordan to respond to a specific events of the arrival of Syrian refugees and the minister of planning, not being able to easily tell you where that money had gone across its territory. So not even at the level of different governments, let alone between just generally between the camps, which is sort of their finite places. There are fences around them. You would think they would I just assume that they would they would know where that money was going. They'd be interested in knowing where it was going. But maybe this is me by being naive. Alison has a hand up. Alison, can you do it before? Because apparently sound like sound work very well for people online. You'll be done. Thank you. I wanted just to thank the presenters for some great, great thoughts. And I wanted to find a coach to connect them and run from its territorial presentation, which I think is fantastic. And I haven't seen it before. For some of the ground, it was a good moment of doing. And I asked what about public space? One of the things that I think about those photographs you showed us, Lucy, is that there's no public space. There's no centre around us. There might be a public space for lucky. We have a fantastic PhD in Cardiff University where I'm from and she's now ten years into her career. Christie, you look at the role of public space in reconciliation of the various communities in Lebanon. And she found some wonderful examples. And that's quite an easy win. If we think about spaces as spent in the reconciliation. And we can also think about that. So there are centres where communities where there are refugee centres in Addis Ababa. The other thing that we can turn around is the local government. Because the international community, like your own habitat, talks to other international agencies in the nation states. Local government gets pushed to the edge of the government is up and on the economy, particularly in the secondary cities. It's not a fashion place to work. It is a kind of different motivation. So I'd love to have comments from speakers on this issue in public space. So I want to ask David to come in and tell us his story about what happened when a camp planner was allowed to do some urban planning in, was it by DOA, and what happened in the result in terms of the public space issue? Will you tell us that story? I don't have a positive word I could add as well. Yeah, it's so very well-meaning, a fantastic government land available. They said we want to be proactive about IDPs, cures land that could be used by IDPs for housing, and we will make it permanent, and we'll have permanent houses there. And it was quite interesting. I came in at that point and I was saying, well, let's design it for the city. And of course, we can have mixed use, we can have commercial on housing and different type of houses to meet different needs. But anyway, a camp planner came along and they designed it in accordance probably with spear standards, I think. And they were all little blocks of maybe 40 houses with a sort of a space in between those houses. And it was, I thought it was a bit unfortunate because there was no open public space, it was just lots of semi-private spaces. And of course, when people move from rural areas to urban areas, they're kind of the social model, the society changes for them. But unfortunately with this model, it was perpetuating this sort of sense of subclans. You know, you came from that village, you would end up in this block and you'd have this very sort of insular life within the city. And in a way that plan process inadvertently sort of led to almost like a concentration of villages that didn't talk to each other rather than the city that was open to all. And we do talk about the rights of the city and public space is a key element of that right to the city. And when you don't have that public space that's open to all, but a series of semi-private spaces that reinforces the sort of subclan village kind of mentality, it was a lost opportunity. But anyway, the mayor with him of Badoe of Abastus to come back and actually try and fix things. So we're looking forward to trying to do that. But a positive one, just a really quick one, was working with refugees, Syrian refugees and Lebanese host communities in Beirut where the public space was tiny. But we, and of course, we used Minecraft because sometimes young people, they might not have much to say to each other. They sometimes needed digital space to start communicating to each other. And they modelled the public space and they started to interact with each other in Minecraft until they got to a point where they co-designed the space. And then that space was actually then built. And the refugees and the host communities felt the common sense of ownership of that public space. And then later on, the same public space was used to host meetings of the parents of refugees and host communities. And it became this kind of place of bringing together communities. And it was just such a lovely, brilliant process. And I think Bartlett's have done some work on it further. Desed, I think they called, some unit. But I think public space and public space co-creation as a social process is just a really powerful thing. Back to you. Do you have time for another question in the room? So we've got time for another question in the room? I think so. Hi. My name is Sarah, and I'm from the United States. And I had a question with you around love about the students who died by the study and some humanitarian values. I'm curious to know in what context. I mean, I know with UNHDR, and do you want to have a type of work to allow them to be on a human-settlement co-parting? To live beyond some kind of planning, to have an increased air, an even faster, if you create some of the situations that are posted in the way you're writing. So really curious to hear about the possibilities and where you reach out the room. And the last point is a big sort of question. Is what do you buy for a spider? Can you repeat the question one more time? OK, so I was asked about the study question. What I, you know, where I experienced that. And I was also asked what I meant by the term forced migrants. I'm not sure I can tell you where, in what context. I encountered that because it was, it was not, this was more chatter-house rules. And so we were not meant to have a discussion about, you know, who said what where. But it was in the Middle East, if that helps to narrow down the region. And I have seen this in instances in the Middle East. But I'm not talking about the UN organisations. It's not been so much, although the UN different UN institutions have said different things as well, which I'm happy to chat about separately. But these are there. Many other implementing partners have expressed some concerns around using such terms. So that's to answer your question on the first one. The second question is that, what do I mean, my forced migrants? I have to say I'm a bit uncomfortable using this term, but I was using this because we were talking about crisis and urban crises and why I'm uncomfortable using this term because I am very uncomfortable in, as I said, that this binary between what constitutes an economic migrant and what constitutes a quote unquote forced migrant is really problematic. I mean, that boundary is so incredibly blurred. What economic situations can make you a forced migrant and vice versa? So where do we start to draw the line? Are you leaving because you're starving because you don't have likelihood opportunities? Are you leaving because of a disaster that has led you into poverty? A lot of these issues are intertwined, and I know that there have been enough scholarship in this field. So I don't need to repeat that. But yeah, I am not comfortable using this term. I was only using this because we were talking about the sort of crisis kind of issue and the specific point about where do you find the refugees and where do you find the IDPs and how do you know where the spending is going for them? That I raised that particular point. But I wouldn't necessarily otherwise. Can I just come back to your question about municipal governments? I completely agree with this point that it's the municipal governments who are at the forefront of having to manage the situations. And that has really been the thrust of the work that I've been trying to do is to work with municipal governments to try and understand what they're doing and what their involvement is. And of course, everything is very context specific. So in some places, like in Greece, the municipal governments are much more involved in the management or were more involved in the management of the asylum issue in Greece, until of course last year when they started shutting down all the programs. And now if you're an asylum seeker in Greece, you simply go to a camp. In Jordan, it's actually quite interesting. Lucy and I've had some interesting experiences in Jordan. Really, it's the greater Amman municipality that has the power to make certain kinds of decisions in relation to many of these other issues. When I have spoken to NGOs and people within the government in Jordan, other municipalities are simply not empowered to have these discussions. And when I've had conversations with them about, well, doesn't the municipality have a say in where you've decided to improve the school or where you've decided to house people or where you've decided to? Because Jordan is a much more centralised system than Lebanon where I've also worked. They've just been like, no, that's not the responsibility of the municipality. They simply are not empowered to have those discussions. It's quite different to Lebanon where, and I'm speaking for 2016, so I want to contextualise the date. There were municipalities who were very unhappy with a lot of NGOs saying that they had not adequately engaged with them when they decided to intervene in the municipal areas to support displaced people. So it's very much of a mixed sort of bag. But yes, I mean, there needs to be much more engagement. I think we can all agree that there needs to be much more engagement with local governments because they're the ones who ultimately are facing the crises on the ground. So I know we've got David Satotwate online with his hand up. David, do you want to ask us a difficult question or make a comment? Thank you. Yes, there's just a quick comment. I've had 50 years' experience of visiting countries where governments have tried to decentralise urban development and to small towns. And governments are very good at picking all the wrong cities, cities that would have boomed with support are ignored because the president needs the airport near his constituency. And I think we're getting things round the wrong way. Secondary cities will grow if their economy is successful, not the other way round. So as a question is sort of finding the sweet spot, the cities that could grow and could be successful places of enterprise and could provide decent homes for people on the move, I guess. Yes, but yes, but also most of the world's fastest growing cities, the small cities too, we underestimate that. And in some ways I would look for the secondary cities or the small urban centres that are growing rapidly and look to see whether they wouldn't have much more capacity than small towns that are growing slowly, that are kind of economically stagnant. Good point. Am I going to say one more in the room? Alejandro is looking at me. OK, Alejandro. Yeah, thank you. I really want to figure your reflection on basically the difficulties of accommodating the needs of migrants within the landscape of identity and responsibility of the different institutions. Whether humanity is looking at children planning or not planning at all, or municipalities basically not having the kind of responsibility or to basically plan for that type of population. You get the stack into a landscape of accountabilities and a legitimacy that cannot be moved, actually. And if you continue to look at the problem maybe as a struggle problem that needs to shift this legitimacy and responsibilities, maybe you cannot actually move it, maybe you cannot, maybe you cannot. But then my proposition basically to you is how will you actually try to resolve this impasse if you basically look at it as a proliferation of difference? So what kind of connections can be done between traditional organisations that exist in place? So basically new leddities and responsibilities emerge, basically. That will be my question. If you have any thoughts, thanks. David, do you want to come in and respond? I'd love to respond to Professor Thathins-Raid. No, I think today it's pre-gates cards. OK, is that it? No, I can't hear it. Shall I respond to Professor Thathins-Raid? Hello. Apologies, David. Go ahead. Can you hear? OK, sure. No, I'm completely with you. I think there's a huge need just from an urban perspective when we're expecting 2.5 billion more people to move to cities in the next 30 years, it has to be small cities. It has to be secondary cities. And that is an opportunity because that also helps to balance economic growth across the countries, across territories. And it's so important that attention is paid on to secondary cities. Now, when it comes to displacement crisis, people are looking for a place that's safe, that may offer economic opportunities, that there are public services and public assets, and that there's humanitarian support. And I think it's possible with the humanitarian crisis to try and help push sustainable urban territorial development in the right way by bringing humanitarian support to secondary cities. And I think all too often, the humanitarian, it takes an effort to set up your base and you need to have all these security provisions and stuff like this. So it makes sense for the humanitarian to congregate in the larger cities. But supposing there was another way where we could say put humanitarian support in decentralise it into smaller cities and more of them, that might also help to steer population growth in a way that could be conducive to supporting the growth and the vibrancy of secondary cities. And I'd almost say the same when it comes to security. Why not? The peacekeepers are trying to reinforce certain cities and others that they're leaving behind. And we have to look at this nexus of security, economic opportunities, public services and humanitarian support to make cities able to work better for a situation of perpetual crisis. And then that takes different planning dimensions from territorial planning to look at the urban rural linkages and to understand where a city might fit or a human settlement fits within a landscape of urban rural economies. And this is my sort of concern with Kakuma and Calabey. It's far too big. They've decided to make this camp into a city. And when the territorial economy is based in a semi-arid area, is based on sort of market towns, the size of that city will not sustain itself. And it needs to be reduced. Otherwise, it will always require humanitarian support. Anyway, I can go on for too long. So let me give the floor back quickly. But thanks so much for the question, Professor.


Rwy'n cael ei wneud i'r llwyaf. Mae'r llwyaf o'r llwyaf o'r cyfnod, mae'r Cymdysg 2 Max OS, mae'r OS oes, mae'n gwybod. Mae'n gwybod ar y llwyaf ym M7MB. Mae'r llwyaf o'r 5, mae'r 7, mae'r llwyaf o'r llwyaf o'r llwyaf. Mae'r ddau'r prosesau, mae'r llwyaf o'r llwyaf, mae'r llwyaf o'r llwyaf o'r llwyaf, mae'n cael ei ddau'r llwyaf o'r llwyaf, mae'n cael ei bwysig o'r ddau, a mae'r ddau o ddau'r prosesau isleiddiadol. Fodd Bydd melyngant. Mae'n gwybod, am y lle fawr i features of yr rydymiaid. Rwy'n pe fawr o'n iawn, mae'n rhai iechydiau aedd oedd. Er mwyn i gweithio los suspicious i ddechrau eich bwysig oherwydd i ddau'r llwyaf. Rwy'n credu yw positifトyseny o'r disquchem i ddau ddau, mae mae'n gweld ar表示. Rwy'n credu bwysig. All o ddiprovechwyd apologise. di'n mynd yw'r ysgol, ac maen nhw'n mynd i'r llodion hwnnw. Mae'r drwng yn ymgyrch yn oed yn chweithio'r llodion. Felly, mae'n meddwl i'r cyffredin iawn, mae gan ddweud ymbydd, mae'n meddwl i'r llodion iawn, mae'n meddwl i'r cyffredin iawn. Mae'n meddwl i'r clwgau llefion yn gofynol. gyda'r ffai fain. Felly, mae'n gweithio y 27-degaredd yn y 7-degaredd ac y 27-degaredd yn y 1-degaredd yn y traditional 5-degaredd. Mae cwestiynau yw hynny. Fy nid oedd y dweud y dweud y llwys arall, ychydig yw'n gweithio yw... yw'n gweithio yw'n gweithio yw'n gweithio yw'n gweithio yw'n gweithio? Ac mae'n gweithio yw'n gweithio yw'n gweithio. Fy yw'r ymgylch, yw'n gweithio yw'n gweithio? Felly, yw'n gweithio yw'n gweithio, mae'n gweithio'n gweithio yw'n gweithio yw 5-degaredd yn y 7-degaredd. Felly, mae'n gweithio yw hynny. Lwffs yn ychydig, ond yw'n gweithio yw yw hynny'n gweithio'u cyflwyffau, gyflym, bwyl gweithio, yw'r gweithio, yw'n gweithio, yw'n gweithio. Yn gweithio'r cyllid yw ddim yn clwb arall? Fyn allan yn ei gweithio'i cyflwyffau, ond yn llwyddiad. the only way to find that out is to collect data and let's analyse the difference between two clubs that are 27 degrees in loft, but in every other way, totally different. Right, so we need a starting position and that is me hitting balls collecting data with both of these and seeing where we are in terms of first carry distance which in terms of loft should be the same. But I'm wondering what's going to impact on both those numbers in terms of the spin number I think will be different, I'm expecting the launch to be different and therefore peak height. Ond mae'n gwybod yn ddweud ac mae'n dweud o'n gweithio ddweud, ac mae'n ddweud o'r ddweud i'w gwneud i'w gwneud yma'r cyhoeddwn, a'i gael i ddweud i'w ddweud? Dyna'r ffordd, mae'r ddweud o'r locasio ar y cyflog, ac mae'r ddweud i'r bobl? Mae'r ddweud i'r bobl yn bobl? Ac mae'n gallu ddweud iddynt? Dwi'n gwybod y pryd yw, roedd y 5rwyng yma'r M7MB, Ond yna'r fwybod yw'r holl, I'm expecting ball speeds to drop off and I'm expecting to be punished. If that happens with the 7 iron in this max OS, I'm expecting to get away with it. So my thought process is, rightly or wrongly, that this will be the max a much more forgiving club, but the idea is that's a perception is that going to bear out in fact. So that's what I'm going to do. I'll start with, we'll start with the 7 iron, I'll start it in a few balls and we'll start collecting a bit of data and I will do exactly the same with the 5 iron. I can't stress enough how different these are in terms of the size, the mass, the profile, it's huge. But I was a big fan of this club so I think what it does for what it is and that's an absolute solid start, that's right down the middle, it does it extremely well, it sounds and feels really well in terms of what it is, in terms of the category it's in. It is big, it is bulky but like I said I took out on the course this idea that you can't shape a shot. I mean I can't not shape a shot, that's gone from left to right so again I think that's a bit of a myth.  That's with a game improvement iron, 7 iron, nice easy swing, 80 man an hour club head speed and that's it, every kind of number you would hope it to do. I'll carry on collecting a group of numbers with that and then I'll do exactly the same with the 5 iron of the MB. Right so first job done, data collected and the interesting thing is from purely a perspective first of all of carry distance, it is very very similar indeed, not a lot to split them. The one thing that is very noticeable between the two clubs is the one that you'd expect is the sound and the feel, one is a forged club, one isn't and again sometimes that appeals to some, some of the golfers it means nothing to whatsoever. The interesting bit for me and again I can only speak from sort of my level, the ability that I have is that I never found one or the other much different in terms of ease of use and what I'm not seeing yet and I know I've certainly sprayed it about a bit in terms of the across the club phase. It's interesting to know in data and I've not looked at it what those drop-offs are so we took it out onto a par 3 at St Andrews and you can see that I hit a number of shots, first of all it was 5 straight with the SIM OS, I hit a pretty decent range of balls, I think it was swinging easy, swinging as I would expect to do out on the course in reality so a couple of mile an hour slower than I would normally be with 7 iron in hand but I struck the ball well, the club launched incredibly well, it seems to sit down on the green but we shall see like I said in data what it does and then it switched up into the 5 iron of the P7 MBs and I've got to say I was surprised, the performance again was really good, I think we struck three reasonably close and a little bit wayward with two others but overall the differences between the performance of the two was largely down to my swing that I put on them and that was about it so at this stage I'm probably a little bit surprised I think as to the differences in terms of what I highlighted, forgiveness and maybe not as great as I thought they were so the last bit now really is to just delve into that data and see if there's any gaping points that I've missed, those kind of things like spin, how did the ball launch, what was the descent angle like, that's the last bit to have a look at and but I must say at this bit I'm a little bit surprised I think. Right all testing done and I've got to say I enjoyed taking out my course in terms of the Trackman simulator that was really enjoyable but it was also great to see the sort of shape of shot which we've never been able to show before and see how that reacted at least on simulator greens but the information that we've been able to now extract from that is really really interesting, I promise there's stuff in here that I would have never been able to share with you before and a real eye opener for me on a personal level. I said at the beginning what I thought might happen and I think it's fair to say I got it wrong, massively wrong and the data will sort of show that very shortly. Two things I want to mention, we've got the length of shaft differs slightly, the five iron is 38 inches, the seven iron is 37.25 and the other major difference and this is a major difference aesthetically as much as anything else what people will struggle with is 5.7 mil of offset on the seven iron in the sim product and only what is 1.75 in the MB so there's a huge difference there but numbers on screen for you now I'll start with the five iron which was the MB right so what you've got going through the numbers very very quickly 5799 spin on average which arguably could be don't forget this is a five iron suggested that could be a little bit too high carrying 159 we've got one flyer in there which was that sort of 167 ball with a real low spin as well launch very consistently 17 degrees for a five iron really good launch you know peak height first of all of 82 feet and a land angle of 44 I think the thing I will say about the five iron and the way it performed it was very very consistent as you seen from where it landed on the green it was kind of two or three really good the odd one or two wasn't so good and yet again that is about the performance of the individual nothing to do with the club then go into the data of the seven iron and what you'll see is 6000 spin on average for a game improvement iron but don't forget these lofts are identical so in theory the spin if we class these two as seven irons or we class them both as five irons whichever way you want to look at it the spin was higher on the max os product carry difference carry average is 159 and there was one ball there what I would call well a bit of a duff and we'll come to that later but that was 151 so obviously that changed things considerably in terms of averages launched 17.3 with one ball there was again very low off the clubface 14.3 so that made a huge difference to the average and probably with that one taken out the equation would have been more like 18 degrees plus and it's same pretty much with a peak height 85 was the average peak height but I would think that would have made a huge difference with that outlier taken out as with a descent angle of 45.6 degrees so I made a difference there as well but the interesting bit is not that I think if you put the data side by side in terms of averages what you'd see is two sets of very comparable numbers and they're both exceptionally good I was surprised at just how equally were in terms of there was the the loft was the same but I was surprised at the other categories and I was probably more surprised at just how well the the 7i and the max os product performed but there's two shots in each of these that I want you to have a look at in terms of this impact location we've never been able to look at before which is really really interested I'll start with the five iron first of all and the the image you see in front of you now is right out the middle first shot that I hit we've got what is it 114 ball speed 64 61 spin 157 carry it's just a perfect set of numbers then I want to show you this next screen and this is a ball that was struck way off centre it's very much out the heel area 80.7 was a clubhead speed 114 was a ball speed so we literally dropped 0.80 in terms of ball speed it still managed to get a spin number of 6611 and a 155 carry so only and 16.7 launch as well which is the interesting bit so two very different strikes there in terms of the location but the performance was almost exactly the same so that idea that how big is the sweet spot on these clubs and don't forget we're talking about a bladed club here which my perception would have been that anything other than out of the middle you'd have been punished quite severely and I think you can see there that mightn't quite be the case with the way these things have improved but in even a more severe case and I won't go into too much detail trust me but this last one now is now with the max os the seven iron I'll start off again with a shot from right out the middle so we've got a good barometer and what you'll see is right out the middle we have got 79.8 clubhead speed 118 ball speed 58 in terms of spin 166 carry and then if I throw this one up and I'll show you without looking at the numbers to the right of screen first of all look at that impact location I'll literally hit it off the bottom two grooves I hit the mat before I hit the ball and as you can see that impacted on the clubhead speed 75.6 we're not almost what is it four mile an hour off the clubhead speed still manage 112 ball speed 58 spin a 156 carry and more unbelievably than any of that data is a launch angle at 18.9 degrees coming off those bottom two grooves so for me the interesting bit was and I'm going to never give you that information in the past without this kind of without what trackman has provided in this very first video I'm astounded by what we've seen but it just goes to show just I think to be fair how impressive these clubs are in terms of forgiveness that bit that I've always measured with an opinion is now very much backed up with that kind of data and the biggest surprise was that it's on twofold really if you looked at those numbers um if you're analysing both sets of numbers side by side and you forget what they are in terms of the bottom of the club whether they're the five iron or the seven iron and we just say these are two irons that are lofted 27 degrees what would be your choice in terms of what performed best because if I'm honest with you looking at that data looking at the consistency of data I'm surprised just how well a seven iron did I'm surprised that if I had both clubs in hand that I wanted to carry that 160 distance with a launch angle that is coming off the seven iron with a spin number that's coming off the seven iron with a with a descent angle that is coming off the seven iron it is hard to say that they weren't the best set of numbers and that is the biggest shock I've had because from um we've always had this debate about game improvement irons of late are just pumped up whatever you want to call it jacked five irons in disguise and maybe they are but they perform incredibly well and like I said just putting these together as two clubs that are lofted exactly the same then it's and not forgetting don't forget this the other thing is slightly shorter shaft as well so a little bit more control perhaps in the seven iron it's really difficult to split and a real eye opener for me on a personal level that's it I've got no more to say it was an interesting first video we're finding our way round track man I'm like I said I'm very conscious of not going overload in terms of data but trying to bring stuff that I think is relevant and um there is important for you to know and see and I think in this instance we've probably done it but we will get better as we go and as I start to understand quite what track man has to offer but first time out more than apu with what we've seen comments down below have you liked the new data have you liked the new for slightly new form of review so comments down below with that like button subscribe if you don't already and that's me done I'm can't wait to be honest with you to get on to the next video because the ideas are flooded in terms of what we can do with this new piece of kit and I think the the level of content is going to go up a notch or at least I hope so anyway right thanks for watching see you soon


Sunday was a cool summer day but the northern heat was still in full swing as Bemidji was host to the 11 and 12 year old state tournaments with teams looking to punch their tickets to the regional tournaments. Start with the 11 year olds as the northern heat took on Baxter in the championship. Heat led two to one in the fourth Joey Fancanal with a runner on second, hits it to center field that'll score run they take a three to one lead. Next batter Stonewall-Gasner pulls it down the line gets by the right fielder that scores Fancanal there up four to one. Northern heat trying to keep piling it on Jack Lunkas with the line drive but Kalin Ostroski makes the diving stag throws it to second for the double up but the northern heat come away in this one the victors they win six to two to win the state tournament. If you enjoyed this segment of Lakeland news please consider making a tax-deductible contribution to Lakeland PBS.


then use that in planning their other affairs in in in levels of saving they might need to to have or how long they may or may not be able to work for i don't know miss flinn from a kind of practical point of view if you've got a view on that i mean is it just that it would really got to have a uniform system uh from a practical point of view even if you know a nurse having to lift people till she's 70 is actually in practice quite difficult yeah i think it is a significant issue for employers whether local authority or private companies they have people that are involved in physical work and the fact that we have the age discrimination legislation as well so you you can't actually make four somebody to retire either but they could be not not not good enough health to continue working but they can't get their state pension is an issue so i i actually agree with you that it would be good if we could have some variation depending on the actual occupation um and allowing you know flexibility in terms of state pension again the complexity of that and what it would cost when administrating it is the issue that we'd have to look at but i do i do advocate that i think there are people that have to finish their working lives earlier um and should be entitled to some some form of state pension at an earlier age i mean again some of the kind of bigger picture i mean we're looking very much at really what's happening now and what might happen in the future but if we look at the past as well i mean when i was growing up a lot of people worked for a company or a business and there was a pretty good or i my impression is there was a pretty good company pension scheme usually defined a benefits and my father worked his whole life for Scottish power and my mother seems to do okay of the benefit kind of thing of the pension um i mean was that a good was that a bad model that we've happily moved away from and should never think of going back to or was that a good model that actually the UK system has deteriorated from and we should try and improve either the UK or the Scottish system i mean i think it's it's it's certainly a different model and there are there are certain things which which i think we have to to bear in mind firstly although they have in the past been very good to find benefit pension schemes outside of the public sector they've never covered the majority of people in work uh even at their peak it was really probably just about 50 of the working population that were covered but that's certainly on a UK context i don't know that the Scotland specific figures in all of that but you're right where people were covered they were covered very well with which looking back now appear to be relatively generous pension schemes having said that they changed significantly during the 1970s with a number of uh regulations coming in over time to increase the security and add to the value of those benefits so for example allowing for pensions not to be eroded by inflation allowing for the provision of spouses benefits as part of that equal treatment regulations coming in as well during the 1980s which means that actually there never was a particular point in time when the system was stable enough it was always continually changing and over the past 20 30 years or so has improved the security and increased the value of the benefits in offer through those particular types of pension schemes in a lot of people now who 30 years ago would have been had a pretty good pension have now got a poorer pension in practice it means that people who had a pension 30 years ago have still got a good pension because the legislation has protected that it means that far fewer people now are being offered those types of pensions because as well as the protection increasing the cost of providing those pensions to an employer has increased as well and again I think it's it's more than doubled over that particular period in time at least again in the overall UK context and that's driven employer behaviour they have found that they are no longer able to afford to make those contributions the kind of increasing global competition has meant that there's been a real issue on labour force costs not just wages but also the additional benefits which are being paid and so it's been a transformation over a period of time and it really started probably I think as the pensions commission pointed out 15 20 years ago that kind of employers started to move away from this type of provision and to take on a provision which for them holds less risk and is potentially less expensive but shifts the risk and the cost on to the individual and that's really where we are at the moment in a UK context and also in an international context in terms of much more of the responsibility for private pensions being placed on the individual even if the employer makes a contribution they're no longer responsible for example for the investment performance they're no longer taking on the the risk of these individuals living for for a long time that's now being passed to the individual who has to deal with it so to me like the individuals getting a poorer deal now than they used to be I mean I accept not every individual but certainly some individual sorry I can see exactly where you're coming from I mean I go back long enough in this industry that I started off in what was known as final salary pensions where people actually got pension based on the salary they were earning in the last year and then saw repeated changes to legislation as Chris mentioned which layered on complexity and cost to these pensions and as a result a lot of employers stepped back from them but equally a lot of employers enjoyed what they called contribution holidays in the 1990s under advice from actuaries and you could look at that and pinpoint that as a significant turning point in the the provision of that type of benefit as well but the over complexity of legislation and regulation definitely I would say was the death knell for defined benefit pensions I think the thing that concerns me in the example I mentioned earlier is that even those that were in a good pension scheme 30 years ago if that pension scheme is now in within the PPF those people that are pensioners are actually having money clawed back from them which is quite concerning too so you know it is it's there is a switch to defined contribution provision which the onus sits on the individual and yes I agree passing that risk on to the individual is quite significant and that's where I advocate the whole engagement education piece is so important that people make the right choices and actually end up in the right place and at the moment I would say our industry isn't very good at that helping them I mean is it too simplistic to say that if people are in some kind of pooled like what used to be a company scheme or a local authority scheme where it's pooled and the risk is pooled that's generally going to be better for the individual than if they just have their individual pot we've moved to a very individualistic system haven't we yeah I mean it is a very individual system at the moment although you if you lift the lid on it a lot of people invest in the same fund so there is a level of pooling to some extent already what I think the latest reform proposals are is to make that a more overt pooling of risk which does make it safer but you also then can you run the risk of the with profits sort of phenomenon where you've got people that are benefiting and being cross subsidised by others within that pool so it has downsides as well okay professible you make the point about you know what's funded and what's unfunded and if I'm reading your paper correctly the scotish local government is considerably better funded I mean you're showing 25 billion is it of assets I think and 78 billion in the UK so that's we've got about a third of all the local government assets which is quite a tenor back to actually see that I mean does it actually well is that the case maybe and I mean it does it matter whether we're doing funded schemes or a unfunded schemes going forward I mean the UK obviously has this mixture do we just live with that or should we be changing that not an easy thing to change because to go to a funded scheme from an unfunded schemes really really difficult the question is I mean who is who's bearing the costs of this so with the pay as you go type arrangement it's got current employees and employers are paying the pensions of those who are currently receiving pensions whereas with the funded schemes these pensioners have made contributions in the past which when invested have generated a fund that broadly perhaps with some support from the taxpayer effectively repays their contributions so I mean in general funded schemes are to be recommended but of course you know what is the you've got to think about what are the returns on the invested funds we've lived through a period where where for example interest rates have been very low so funds invested haven't in cash or near cash have not done that well so it's a bit of it is a bit of a trade-off but certainly the UK turns out to be one of the countries that has done most towards funding early on in my paper I say that the UK has the largest second largest pension asset set of pension asset funds in the world following only the US so there is a considerable level of saving that's effectively what it is by the UK population and Scottish population obviously in pension funds which will generate future income in the case of the Scottish local authority pension funds were better funded as a percentage of the liabilities than the English ones where I don't know if you can confirm if that's still the case or I'm not sure what the current position is and the final area I wanted to touch on was the whole thing about you know equality rich and poor and so on I mean I think again your paper professor Bell says that 55 percent of people in Scotland are saving adequately which sounds like good news I'm a bit worried about the 45 percent that aren't saving adequately I mean where is UK current pension policy going is it is it helping the people at the bottom or is it are we actually moving towards the people who have both finances income and financial education to do better for themselves while the people at the bottom get left behind I'm sure my colleagues will have views on that I mean the utter enrolment is a major innovation it seems to me and bringing people into the pensions the ambit of having an investment in a pension than was previously the case so that helps the relatively poorly paid to some extent it does seem to me and going back to previous questions that the at the bottom of the income distribution where people through globalization through technical change for whatever reason are not earning very high levels of salary so it reflects the level of inequality that exists within Scotland and within the UK as a whole that that group are unlikely to be able to save sufficiently to be able to have an adequate type pension post retirement and that they therefore will be dependent on state pension and other and other benefits and it shouldn't forget actually that in terms of benefits the past 10 15 years has seen the kind of balance of DWP spending move more and more towards pensioner benefits and away from working age benefits so it tends to be working age benefits that are really being squeezed whereas things like pensions so for example working age benefits fall within the benefits cap which the Chancellor has recently talked about whereas benefits for older people have tended to increase and things like the triple lock which some view as unaffordable will protect those relatively poor pensioners who maybe haven't had the opportunity to to save during their working lives at least post retirement yeah I understand you saying there's been a bit bit of a move towards pensioners as a whole so I don't the other two witnesses could comment on that I mean do you see present pension policy in the UK would mean a widening gap between those that have and those that don't for me what I've observed in the past year two years is there's a specific group and I'm one of them and there's not many of us in the room but women in particular within the auto enrolment regulations it's quite interesting because it's mainly women that are part-time workers they're on lower salaries and they quite often fall below the earnings benchmark for auto enrolment so then they're not they're not participating in that saving so and you know there are employers obliged to offer them to join if they want to but without that element of compulsion and being brought in and this sort of just happening to them so I genuinely have a concern that we're going to see a growing problem with women who work part-time take career breaks etc still having big gaps in pension provision I'm not exactly sure of the the solution but I definitely think employers should be asked to consider if somebody's falling below a certain earnings level the employer should be asked to consider actually contributing on their behalf to at least get them started in the savings pattern but you know that that's that's an issue that's close to my heart at the moment having witnessed a number of large employers auto enrolling their staff and seeing the majority of exclusions being women just to put it in context I think that pensioner poverty in the UK as a whole has dropped significantly in the past 15 years or so initially mainly as a consequence of the pension credit and helping people who hadn't done very well from either the state pension system or the private pension system in the UK pension credit was very good at bringing them up to at least the kind of level of pensioner poverty which is very close incidentally to the current guarantee credit level so I think also the single-tier pension being introduced and having that set above the guarantee credit level is also likely to maintain that kind of poverty prevention part of the UK pension system and I think if you look at who really loses out most from the introduction of a single-tier pension it would be people who are relatively consistent high owners through their working life who would have built up very high second-tier pensions so I think you can see the the the thrust of policy at least in state pension terms is to focus resources among people who among the lower earners I think to make sure they stay out of poverty and really to give everybody a flat base now from that you can see that if what you're trying to achieve is everybody having a relatively good standard living in retirement related to the standard living they had while they were working you actually get the lower earners much closer to that through this single-tier state pension policy than through the continuation of the previous policy I think it's right there there are that I think both as Ann and David have alluded to there are gaps in that and I think interesting it's probably not the very low earners who are likely to find it hardest to get a decent income in retirement it's probably people just above that work that we've done suggests they need to save more than the minimum eight percent of banned earnings contributions in order to have an adequate retirement income and interesting the higher your earnings are the higher the contribution is you need to make in order to do that because the flat rate pension doesn't reward those higher earners anymore in the same way that the the previous system did but actually the higher earners probably more likely to be able to afford that it's probably people kind of not on low earnings but on high earnings in the middle who will probably struggle to be able to make the additional contributions they need won't be able to build up other forms of saving that they can rely on in retirement and so may have to find other ways and may potentially it could be households where there's a couple where one person is automatic enrolled if one partner is working part-time it isn't automatic enrolled and that ends up in potentially reducing the amount they have saved so I would say it is focused on keeping low earners out of poverty but there may be more to be done for people just above that level in order to make sure they can have a decent retirement income okay thanks so much thank you two quick questions really one is the relationship between national insurance contribution and pensions being paid out I mean is there in fact no relationship there at all I mean we talk about people being able to contribute some people of course contribute more to NIC than the maximum limit in order to achieve their pension because they work longer but other people are invited sometimes to pay they're behind by £3.50 or something but in fact is that all a bit of a myth there's no fun there you know that there are issues around eligibility but I mean what we've now got and the IFS has criticised this is an income tax and all but name for national insurance and politicians that are unwilling really to raise the headline rate of income tax but are willing to make adjustments to national insurance and whereas you might attempt to simplify the way that income tax has been or is being set by say making the personal allowance £10,000 which is part of UK government policy the national insurance system for the on the individual side indeed for the employer side is is very complicated and you would hope actually that someone whether it's an independent Scotland or or the UK government might find a way of of trying to stop this charade that that this is in some sense a contribution towards your national insurance but rather that this is part of your overall income tax liability and that would be something that small employers would welcome enormously if it would make their life much easier than dealing with two different deductions of tax I think that's true I mean I think politicians underestimate how concerned smaller employers are about all of these issues including the both national insurance and income tax and can I ask you about any observations on companies that register overseas and therefore are ineligible to pay national insurance contributions and who employ people in this country I'm not quite sure what category of company you're thinking about but I mean there have been some well publicised examples in recent months where issues around eligibility for kind of local taxation has come up and it seems to me that the only way to solve that has to be cross-national there has to be an agreement that tax havens or jurisdictions in which which are being used effectively to create what might seem to most people fictional transactions are outlawed in some way or another but I'm not a tax expert so I can't tell you how that might happen no sorry and um I guess finally it's just it it it does seem that um in an independent Scotland there might be um difficult as it may be but there it seems to me that there's a real opportunity to redesign the tax system to first of all perhaps counter some of these defects that exist and to to make it much simpler in spite of the complications that are that are referred to in various papers about extracting responsibilities and the current practices from the UK system but the system isn't working particularly well would you agree that there's that there's an opportunity that exists as well as the complications that clearly are there inherent in that clearly there are difficulties around the structure of taxation at the moment and I would recommend people to read the Merleys report which is a bit technical but the produced by the institute for fiscal studies which looks at the UK tax system and points out some of the difficulties things like the taxation of property which is rather strange and also the way in which it sets up incentives for for individuals and companies to take actions which are maybe about taxation rather than the economic benefit of the country the only thing I well so that in principle is available the only thing I would say is that clearly it couldn't happen in the short term and that it would inevitably there would be transitional costs to move from a system that we currently have to one which is radically radically different and you have to bear in mind too that a redesigned system also has to pay attention to not only the kind of incentives that are set up within the Scottish economy but also any incentives that might affect for example migration between Scotland and the rest of the UK if it looked like taxes were advantageously designed in Scotland you might get large numbers of people coming to Scotland which might or might not be a good thing or the flow could be the other way so what I guess I'm saying is that yes in principle a redesigned tax system might be a good idea there would undoubtedly be transitional costs and you would finally have to pay attention to the kind of tax regime that was in operation in your close neighbors okay thank you that has concluded questions from the curriculum a couple of short questions for Professor Bell specifically and it's just that in your paper funding pensions in Scotland would independence matter published in February 2014 he pointed out of course as we've already discussed that the UK government has no plans to vary pensions by country you know the state pension age but you said in that that this was actually unfair to Scotland so do you think actually that we should have the ability to settle in state pension age in Scotland so this I mean goes back to a question I think that was asked of Chris I mean so in an ideal well I don't know whether it would be an ideal world but what you'd like to do is you might like to do is to design pensions so that in effect everyone got an individual assessment of their life expectancy and paid contributions accordingly so that would have to take in a huge amount of issues now I've asked you a pretty straightforward question I was hoping for a pretty straightforward answer well I mean so you could vary it by location so but then would there be a question of should actually the state pension age be different within Scotland because as Chris said I suspect that given current statistics it should be much greater in Orkney than it is in Glasgow there are other factors that determine life expectancy ethnicity is a factor that does tend to be reflected in differences in mortality rates you could certainly you can make this case but it doesn't seem to me to be an overwhelming case because there are ways in which you could equally argue that that you could vary the state retirement age other than simply by territory within the UK so that's my ducking and diving Did you say it was actuarial and unfair to Scotland? Well in a sense it is because what an actuary would do is to is to look at everyone's individual circumstances and design a pension that was appropriate for that person if there were a smoker then maybe a more generous pension would be available than if there were a non-smoker and so on so the statement was correct the question is you know would that be a desirable policy overall or is it simpler to have people just know that in relation to my working life this is is is where when I can expect to get to receive a state pension okay just one final point basically I mean you've done a lot of work on demographic challenges and we've talked about demography quite a lot here obviously and Scotland doesn't really have a lot of the tools in order to address those issues you know whether it's immigration, fiscal incentives etc I mean if Scotland can't tackle these issues directly can you see the ageing population situation relative to the rest of the UK getting worse in Scotland? The currently the demographic projections taken at face value would suggest that Scotland would have a relatively more well would be devoting a higher proportion of its GDP to the support of older people that essentially is the institute for fiscal studies case there's a raft of assumptions that many of which we've discussed many of which are contestable around that so at face value it's two one of the things that I wonder and I've mentioned before is that if you look at Europe in terms of the challenges faced by an ageing population that yeah the UK is actually in the most favourable position in in Europe along with Ireland Germany Italy Greece are going to face much much greater challenges and so the long run projections say for the German economy are actually fairly poor on the basis that by 2040 I think it is there will be for every working pension there will be half a pensioner in Scotland you know in terms of European Union countries if you look at the other European Union countries we'd be in the the better half rather than the bottom half in terms of graphic projections okay we'll leave it at that okay well thank you very much actually I'd like to thank our witnesses for the evidence that they've given today it was very helpful I'd also like to thank colleagues for their questions we decided earlier on that we take the next two items in private therefore I'd like to close the public session and have a couple of minutes of a break in order to allow the official report and the witnesses to leave


Built in 1828, the windmill is the oldest convict-built structure surviving in Queensland and the oldest windmill tower in Australia. Brisbane, located in the traditional lands of the Terrible and Jaguar People, was established as a penal settlement in 1825. It operated essentially as a jail within a jail for re-offending convicts, and was a notoriously harsh place to serve out a sentence. The windmill is one of only two buildings to survive from the penal settlement, however the story of the windmill does not end with the convict era. It was later used as a trigonometrical survey station, a signal station for shipping, an official timekeeping device for the settlement, an observation tower, the Queensland Museum's first home, a site for wireless radio and telephony research, and for early television research and broadcasting. The windmill tower stands about 16 metres in height. Circular in plan, it tapers from approximately 8.5 metres in diameter at the base to 4.5 metres at the top. The tower is largely constructed of rendered stone and brick, with an ashlar finish on the exterior, which gives it the appearance of large stone blocks. Inside, the tower comprises four levels, each narrower than the last. The walls are about 1 metre thick at the base, reducing to 650 millimetres at the top. The observation cabin on top of the tower offers panoramic views of the Brisbane City Scape, surroundings that are very different from when the windmill was built. At the top of the tower, on the hill overlooking the penal settlement, the windmill originally had sails, visible in this image from 1835, however they were notoriously unreliable. Under the direction of the strict commandant Patrick Logan, a separate timber treadmill was constructed, out on the current road. Used as a form of punishment for unruly convicts, it was also a reliable source of crushing grain. 16 convicts operated the treadmill, some in leg irons, from sunrise to sunset, with a 2-3 hour break in the middle of the day. The penal settlement closed in 1842, and the windmill ceased operation in the late 1840s. After some uncertainty about its future, including possible demolition, the tower was converted for use as a signalling station for shipping. Winds were undertaken in 1861, including the removal of the windmill's stalks and wheels, the laying of timber floors on each story, new doors and windows, and the winding staircase that runs from the bottom to the top. The tower was also fitted out as a public observatory, and became known by this term. The following year it also became the first home of the newly formed Queensland Museum. The windmill's prominent position made it ideal for use as a timekeeping device, and a timeball was installed on a mast above the cabin. Dropped each day at 1 o'clock, it was a reliable authority for regulating clocks and watches. From the second floor up, the walls are constructed of English Bond clay bricks. The walls below are stone. The painted internal walls show signs of repairs from various phases of use. These structures were constructed around the base of the tower from the 1880s, including a cottage for the signalman in 1883 and a detached kitchen two years later. Use of the tower as a signalling station was discontinued in 1921. Archaeological investigations in the 1980s identified the location of the original signal flagstaff, and a replica now stands in its place. Off the six narrow windows, the third floor retains curved hardwood plates, evidence of the windmill's curb supports, curb, and cap frame, cut down in 1861 to provide clearance for the stairwell. Despite or even because of its unusual built form and elevated position, the windmill has been the location for innovative research, including wireless radio and telephony experiments in the 1920s, and as the site of Queensland's first television broadcast in 1934. From functional beginnings, the windmill emerged as a popular visitor attraction and featured in Brisbane tourism posters from the 1930s. The observation cabin is hexagonal in plan and is offset south of the tower's centre line. The round hardwood mast projects through the roof of the cabin and down to the third floor. The riveted copper timble sits atop the cabin and its hoisting rope runs through the top of the mast. Outside, the balcony is supported by carved timber brackets and has a wrought iron balustrade. From the observation balcony, views of the inner city suburb of Spring Hill and the Brisbane CBD are afforded to the east and the south. Just as an observatory from the 1860s, panoramas such as this one from 1862 have captured the evolving development of Brisbane. This panorama from 1920 contrasts with the towering cityscape of today. Planked by Wickham Park to the west and King Edward to the east, the distinctive windmill remains an important Brisbane landmark and an evocative symbol of Queensland's convict past.


It all starts out done in practice field, so I had to execute throughout the week just so we were going to the game ready and prepared. It's been effective near the goal line too. You have this Sunday that maybe the reason we're running the football. What's the mentality like we did? Let's say within the five and you know run plays are cold. Get it in. Plain and supple. Get it in zone. And when you have success, is that helping that record you think? Like help with. As far as the confidence level or let's get this? I'm always had confidence in the goal line. It's all about mind of a matter getting it in there. So it's my mentality. Last week's win seemed to kind of pump some oxygen into this team. What do you guys got to do to build on that on Sunday and stack another new performance on top of what you have? Starts out there, you know, practicing well, putting some good days together. Got another tough opponent at home. And just go out there and play our game. You know, just build the momentum from last game right there and execute. What has led to you just not trying to bounce things outside as much as basically just taking the lane that's there for you? It's really just taking what the defense give me and just getting downhill. I know it's going to be, you know, like I said, those 45 yard runs turn into more as the game goes on.  That's what I've been focusing on, probably bouncing, not trying to do too much. Take what the game gives me. And we're actually seeing Coach Art put plays together like skiing plays to get you downhill. How does it venture such an effective downhill run?  You know, some runs that may look like, you know, one or two yards or three yards turn into four, five or six. So it's about me just being physical, getting downhill, making my reads and, you know, finishing the run. What have they done to be so effective in the run? Disruptive, good scheme.  I feel good, I feel safe.   I enjoy it because we won 13 straight. So, I mean, it's a good rivalry. I mean, I went to Alabama, fed against Tennessee, it's a great rivalry and the safeguards make it better. So, do I still do it? I didn't do it this year, but if I'm a round one when the game is going on, I definitely like one up.