And now, our first panel discussion for the day. We will be discussing unified measurements of online video and the road ahead in India, which is being moderated by Devendra Deshpande, head content plus mind share. Let's have a huge round of applause for him please. Hello sir. And of course our panelists on board, Deepak Kurana, co-founder and CEO of Vserve. Sir, can I have you on board as well please, Mr. Deepak Kurana? Round of applause, we've had lovely lunch ladies and gentlemen. Get the energy going. Nishant Radia, co-founder, chief marketing officer. Viduli on stage as well, please. Neil Pandia, head of media, L'Oreal. Priyanka Gandhi, associate director, integrated marketing communications, India. And head of media of APEC division Colgate-Palmolive. Prasanna Lohar, DCB Bank, head innovation and architecture. So I request you all to take your seats. Mr. Deshpande, it's all yours. Thanks Adarth. Thanks. Okay, so we have an interesting mix of people today. Priyanka and Neil will represent the advertiser side. We have the data partners here, which is Viduli and Vserve and Prasanna from DCB Bank. We were also expected, we were expected, so there was another panel member which was an OTT platform. Unfortunately, he's been unable to make it. So I think that's one perspective that we'll miss out on from a whole unified measurement perspective. But yeah, before we begin, it's unified online measurement, a need and the future of it. All of us have seen that infographic about what happens in 60 seconds on the Internet, right? There are some 600 minutes of hours of video which gets uploaded on YouTube, Facebook, you know, sharing, happening on WhatsApp, Instagram. Then of course you have the Twitter. So clearly, I think the primary question that I would actually ask, and I'll start with Nishant, how would you define a video, how would you define a video view? Because Facebook has a different definition, YouTube has a different definition, and you seem to integrate all of that. So this is actually the first question is really tricky because I think we're still far from defining the common definition of a view. Different platforms will have different definitions, and I think for now that's fine. We're looking at going towards a place where there's unified measurement and there's a unified definition of a view. But before that, I think what's important is that across different platforms, there's different audiences, and it's important to identify what are the key matrices when it comes to online video which is actually generating an ROI for your brand. First, if you're able to define those key matrices and KPIs which you're able to track, for a platform like YouTube, a certain amount of viewership, watch time and engagement would be considered to be a success as compared to something else on a Facebook and something else on a Hotstar or on an Alpology. So I think once that is clear, once we're able to define what are the right matrices to track, I think then, and at scale, that is when we'll come to the question that you know what is that common definition of a view. So I'll come to the whole metrics part, you know. I mean, and the question really is, are we looking at too much from a television lens or from a digital ecosystem perspective? Should we be looking at it differently? But before that, question to you Deepak. From V-Serve as a data management, you know, across all the telcos and on mobile, what would a video constitute for you? Okay, so just to, before I answer that, I just want to probably touch upon a point that, you know, this topic of unified measurement. Okay, why is there the need for it? Fundamentally, we are talking about a digital industry which is roughly about 12,000 to 14,000 crores. Yeah, it is growing at about 30% year on year, roughly. With the increasing amount of spends, obviously when we are talking about the growth of measurement as an area, okay? And if you look at the size of the industry, the measurement area is still broken, okay? In spite of it remaining broken for so many years, we've still grown to a 13,000, 14,000 crore industry, right?  Advertisers on the other hand have, hesitantly or in a tentative manner, placed trust on platform providers, go with their data sets. So, so far, yes, that journey has been moving forward. Potentially, if this industry is going to grow from 12,000, 13,000 crores to 20,000, 30,000 crore, obviously everyone is concerned about measurement from that perspective, yeah? Now, coming back to, you know, when we look at what we at V-Serve do with data. So, if I were to broadly look at the India ecosystem and if I look at the consumer, today I see that the consumer is leaving imprints of their data at different platforms. So, there is a lot of data getting collected out there, okay? And everyone wants to organize data in a way that gives them an advantage for their business, okay? That's really a hidden motive for many business out there. We as a company, we saw the digital advertising space and we had our own view and we felt that, look, the country lacks local authentic data, you know, on mobile internet customers and we went and solved that problem by doing a tie-up with telecom operators. We said, look, all of us as customers are first a customer of a telecom operator and then we are a customer of an app, whether it's a YouTube, whether it's a Facebook, whether it's Hotstar, Sony Live, anything for that matter, right? And we said, look, why don't we bring authentic data from telecom operators, not just we can acquire, not just do we understand that the demographic of the customers, we understand transaction behavior, we understand Arpus, there are various cohorts of segments which potentially could be useful to possible buyers, yeah? And apply that to any space. Like we want to democratize data out here and we want to bring it to as many local platforms as possible. When we're trying to do that, obviously we believe that local platforms in India, whether it is Hotstar, Sony Live, they will have one line of thinking and they will embrace this in a different way as opposed to platforms like Google and Facebook, okay? Because at one level there is a spirit of competition out there in the market. So local data will get married to local platforms and they will try to figure out their own way to measure, you know, measure their audiences, provide advertisers more color on that side. When you flip this on the advertiser's side, while this is happening in the ecosystem, the advertiser is constantly trying to say that, listen, I don't care whether it is a local platform or whether it is YouTube, for me the audience is consuming this, okay? And I want to probably get really a view of my customers, you know, what is the kind of reach I am getting, what is the duplicate reach I am getting, what is the cost on platform A versus platform B, so many other variables, can I have an entity which can solve that problem? So what I understand is like there are platforms like Bach out there which are trying to solve it, still early days, still very early days. From our perspective, when I, this is my personal perspective, I feel that look it is not going to be easy, you know, to bring out a unified piece in a fragmented world. There could be data available at scale and in silos, and it will be an interesting problem to solve, to tackle the unification in some way. A quick question to you, Prasanna. What are the metrics that you are chasing? You know, you lead innovation for DCB Bank. So what are the key metrics of measurement that you are chasing when you know you are looking at customers? See, as a beneficiary organization for these platforms, like when we go for any of the new products, we always see how we can get more customers for our products. So as we see the more trendies of customers going online, on internet, on mobile devices, we run some of the campaigns, TV campaigns and online campaigns. The challenge in front of us, like how do you really monetize or how do you really seek for those many expenses on Facebook kind of a campaign? Is that what we are really getting the customers? That's the one challenge we always look at. So as he rightly said, there is no really great measurement around different channels, YouTube or various others. So what we are looking at, some kind of a solution can be an unified currency around those channels. Can it come after consult? Some kind of a committee or a consortium coming in local or global platforms. But it's again a challenge, right? Nobody would like to really share their data. But at our end, what we are looking at, at least make a use of data which is available with us. Data coming from the various channels, like branch or ATMs or multiple transaction channels, so that we create a customer profiling at our end and use that customer profiling to really give an right set of a product offering to the customer. But looking at what's happening on the digital marketing side, we are able to create a kind of measurement like how much we are spending for those campaigns and how much customers coming in. And that challenge is almost to all the beneficiary organizations like banks. So far. Okay, so Neil, you just want to quickly talk about the role of video content and brand messaging. Firstly, I think Deepak covered a lot of points in the start. Before you get into defining what they've been asking me, I think one quote which I want to start with is that, which one of my ex-bosses used in most of our measurement discussion was that if it is not expressed in figures, it is not science, it is opinion. I mean, in this industry as of today, there are multiple opinions which are running around. There is an opinion from a platform guy, opinion from a brand guy, opinion from agency levels. I think we need next 30 minutes which is left right now. I think there will be opinions from all of us, but we'll try and structure it to the way where there is some way forward in the unified solution. Coming to the point of David, I think before that, I mean, before we jump into brand and unified management, I think we need to first understand, I think we started the topic from a perspective that there are a lot of challenges. I think there are challenges because there is no unified person and it will continue to have challenges until there is no one unified version. I think we need to step back and understand why do we need one unified online measurement. From a client's perspective, I think we followed L'Oreal basically a framework of three hours which is reach, resonance and reaction. I think the hygiene thing which I want to know from a unified measurement to understand what's the unique reach of my campaign. Once that is solved, I need to understand what's the resonance from a customer whom I have reached at. Is there any movement in mind measures, spawned awareness, likability, purchase and tension? That's the next step. Towards the end, being an advertiser and a sales guy at the end of the day, I think reaction, what is the consumer whom I have reached to reacting to it? Is he coming to me to buy, purchase? Is it converting into sales? I think these are the three big hours which we need to identify and hence the importance of unified sedation. I think challenges will keep going. I think we're going to argue more on challenges. But from a brand perspective, content, so to be very honest, digital investments, not only in the market is growing at 30%, it is growing at some 30, 40% at brand level who are brands like L'Oreal and Vodafone which I work for who are metro centric. And in this framework, content is becoming really important and no one better than they can answer content because I have learned content from him only. So I leave that to you. Even since you agreed to that earlier, but yeah, fine. So that's the perspective, Devan, I think. So we need to answer that first before we jump into challenges and XYZ.  It had happened in real. So extremely a premier luxury car brand was discussing a piece of content. And the KPIs that that car brand had said was I need 10 million views on this because I'm spending a lot. Now, and that car is costing about a crore plus and no way there are 10 million buyers in India for that car. I don't know whether even 10 million people aspire to buy that car, right? So the point really, Priyanka, would be that, you know, what are the metrics that you are chasing? And I think partly Neil did answer that, you know, how critical would video be from a brand messaging perspective? But what would the metrics be that you are chasing? So I think as advertisers, one of the biggest challenges that we are dealing with that they are people who are now, you know, spending a lot of time with many touch points. They are fleeting attention spans. One of the bigger challenges is how do you continue to reach and engage, you know, with your consumers? And the metrics pretty much is how do you reach the right consumer, how do you, with the right message that is engaging for them, ultimately to influence, you know, a positive attitude towards a brand that leads to preference building and finally, you know, getting them to use the brand. So that's clearly, I mean, the overall sort of objective that we are chasing. And for us, I mean different touch points should add up to the same thing, you know, right now in silos, what we want is a unified way of actually reaching and making a plan or a communication strategy that helps us to achieve this goal. So there are complexities of, you know, there being video, static, social media platforms, influencer marketing. So there are various aspects and you look at all of these, you know, bases, what is the communication tasks and what are the different metrics that you look at it. So basically on digital video, now we know digital video has been growing rapidly. I mean, we know and we get these numbers from various platforms. Having said that, you know, what we would like to do from a video planning point of view is do a holistic video planning. I mean, why should it be TV for TV and then you start, you work on a YouTube plan or a hot star plan and on top of that, there is this proliferation of, you know, more and more OTT platforms being available. So all this is a very positive sign that it is a growing consumption of digital video. But if there was a unified measurement system, it will actually help us to unlock the real potential of this, you know. One is you give a fair share of spend to platforms that are really, I mean, once you know that this is the kind of reach, the deduplication that it allows you to do, it potentially also helps us to plan better for different brands and audiences.  But if there is a unified measurement, you could potentially actually over-invest. I mean, we could be possibly under-investing on digital video for some brands or over-investing. So it really would give us, you know, a right sense of how to use that strategically to, you know, target different audiences to sort of build brands. I mean, potentially you could build a premium brand plan only through a digital video platform. If you had a unified way of, you know, assessing, okay, this is the media metrics, these are the people I'm reaching, this is the kind of whatever frequency that I'm reaching, and ultimately run a measurement on that to see how does it impact my brand KPIs. So I have a related question again on that. And what I hear you say is that, we want to chase audiences, not really platforms. So in the current scheme of things, does that become a deterrent? And I'll tell you why I'm asking this, because video consumption on Facebook would be very different than, you know, how you would do it on YouTube, right? So it's not really one-size-fits-all, right? But today, when you do a video, then we are all taking the impressions route, right, the universe route. So is that a big deterrent on, you know, how videos are being planned today versus what it should be? So I think we are all evolving and learning with, you know, how video consumption is happening. You know, different platforms have different user behavior. So there is an understanding of how you know, how to use a six-second video or a ten-second video and a long-format video.  Having said that, there is definitely a need to get to a common understanding of what is a view and, you know, then establish and be able to see, okay, formats which have, you know, a 20, I mean, we are all familiar with building a lot of communication through a 20 or a 30-second TV spot and that still takes the bulk of the spending. So while we understand and we are all learning and evolving to understand the use of different video formats, there is also equally an important need to agree to a currency of what is a view and, you know, what are the kind of levels of view that we would like to track. I mean, we should have the ability to see the impact and measurement of a ten-second view or a 30-second view or a long-format view and that is for the industry to sort of come, you know, to come together to arrive at a common matrix system because different platforms have different formats and in order for it to be fully acceptable there has to be a common ground that, you know, we get to so that it sort of meets everybody's needs and allows people to cut and digress it the way they would like to for their, you know, specific needs. I think she's covered most of the things but I think they went from a perspective from our advertisers and where all of us agree that video is growing and that's where all of us are advertising. The point of view here is that video is not growing in one platform. Video is growing at multiple platforms. It is going on YouTube, Facebook, Hoster, XYZ and as of today there is no one common platform where I can, where I can trust forget about trust, where I can plan in such a way that I'm not wasting my money by reaching out the same audience again and again at multiple platforms. So currently if you take for example DCM, DCM gives me a validation to selective platform owners but it does not give validation to another selective platform owners.  I think in India we are used to that. I think we need somewhere one unified way where I can that's DCM that take about mode as a new ability option. It's still new in this thing. Take about comscore, comscore do not measure mobile videos online. I mean end of the day 80% of my videos are on mobile. So I think there is no one unified there are multiple of them but there is no one person there. So I don't know that end of the day if I'm reaching out to Devin five times. I may plan at a five frequency for Devin on YouTube but Devin is also there on Facebook where I'm adding. Also there on Hoster. So indirectly I'm wasting money reaching out to Devin and also irritating Devin by reaching out 10 times. So I think that's where the importance of unified is. So I think talking about same language between a publisher agency and me is really important. So I think one interesting or two points rather on that is so one thing is there when I hear of the challenge and this is also from experience that when we're talking about the unified piece it's not necessary or like a major problem right now that what is the definition of the view that comes secondary but the bigger problem is it's not that you have to deduplicate and reach the right audience. So that's one. The second is just a question here is that if you're targeting Devin five times on five different platforms would you still want to do that experiment to kind of understand that you know Devin on and Hoster loves watching Dya or Bhati Ham but on YouTube watches a lot of comedy videos. So with your ads when you're targeting him when he's watching a certain piece of content in case you still want better segmentation and audiences and understand that what the audience is consuming on different platforms. So are you talking about adaptive creatives there or... Exactly so I'm saying not necessarily a problem if you're reaching a person five times on different platforms. I have one view when we have these kind of challenges are there so recently we have heard about emerging technology like blockchain and many other video channels. It can be really tracked under one traceability chain and so that you can really resolve this kind of a problem and some of the experiments have been done to come on that decentralized kind of a platform. So I think one of the app is almost more than two million users are already there on such. I think that's a way to look at the next level of this having that one chain which tracks how that particular user is dealing with the multiple contents on YouTube or even on the local but that's all it comes into the adoption of that particular culture or that particular architecture. But I think sooner or later we will see adoption of a blockchain into the even content industry also. Interesting. I have a question for you, sorry. Have you seen unified measurement happening in any international markets, elegant solutions out there? Are there any models out there yet? To be very honest, currently there is nothing. There is Nielsen doing somewhere in one of the countries similar to DAR which is combination of panel between TV and XYZ. So their data source is Facebook. But the point here comes that if you want a unified measurement system you need to have three things. One is trust one is investment, third is bravery. You need someone to definitely be brave enough in the industry to come back. This is the third one you said? Bravery. You need, why there is no unified measurement apart from RAM and IRS? Because their investments are really high and you do not want the ROIs. But where we see digital is really growing where we set 12,000 crores growing at 30 percent. I think investment is not a problem. I think all of us are ready to do that. I think next is trust level which will be only be solved until you find, currently I may not trust the publisher what he gives me. I think what we saw gives me a data only we saw knows. There is no third party defining what we saw is going. Similarly for XYZ, I think a unified solution will bring that trust into it. And third is bravery. You need someone like Bark which we will talk upon it who is taking that challenge to bring into the industry and make a new currency itself. I think it is not easy to make a currency. I think we have been living with TVRs over the years and I don't think so radio, RAM and I think we are able to reach to create a new currency. I think we need a new currency to do that. I think the day we reach there, I think most of our problems are going to be solved. Deepak, I have a question for you. From a V-Serve tech perspective in which both Neil and Priyanka spoke about retargeting the same person and basically just wasting the whole bit or not really optimizing the media. Do you have a perspective on that ? Can it be different on mobile or can that be controlled? Obviously, when we are looking at the space, our first step in the direction was that let us bring authentic data into the ecosystem. Let's first try to bring that in. That took us about two, three years convincing telcos, putting systems, information, security, compliance, all of that. How do we now go ahead and help the ecosystem with that? In that early experience when we spoke to some publishers, we said look, there is data and this can be the third party data in the hands of the advertisers. We even experienced without quoting names of publishers, they were shying away from embracing data because they felt that look, if there is a third party ecosystem which is going to bring in this data, it is going to bring it in the eyes of the buyer. We even faced that resistance in the ecosystem. So there is that pull and pressure on one side where at one level the publisher could have an argument that look, data can help me grow my business. At the same time, data can also bring out the true value of your business. It's a double-edged sword for that. It's a tricky point. The way I personally see it is that if you look at today the broad ecosystem, when you look at any category, when you look at retail as a category, I look at variables at a category, I look at every aspect. What is common theme is that everything is getting disrupted. So I am a little skewed towards the thought that measurement as a problem in this country. You are going to have different solutions. You may not have a play book which existed. Because everything is getting disrupted right now. Companies are trying to solve the same problem in a new way. Each one has their own angle to get into that space. So it is going to be I do see that. There are legacy players out there who believe from the TV world. There is no measurement problem in the TV space. Can they really solve it in the digital space? Only time will tell. Why would someone else not come and disrupt them? There is a good possibility. There are going to be alternatives out there. So it's early days. And when I see, if I were to also probably say at some level maybe I am forming a new side. When we talk to telecom carriers they have their own limitations. So while they have deep data, the data needs to sit in their data center, compliance, security, so many pieces and obviously they are not going to part data with platforms like Google and Facebook. It will never happen. So data providers at one end are going to guard their data and guard their ecosystems and will have their preferred standards for whatever said in the ecosystem. So I am probably a little of a view that is unified measurement going to see a light of the day in the digital world or will it see a different form? Actually I think here we are just restricting it to digital video. Digital video is one part of the overall digital ecosystem. And the merits of having that one unified measurement that we have to understand who we are reaching to your question, would I want to reach him ten times over in a month versus trying to reach him maybe five times but more often and more continuously? Of course we would do that. We would want to drive effectiveness and distribution of advertising spend like that. There are other ways of engaging with consumers, be it using the word of mouth and so on and so forth. But I think from an advertiser lens some sort of unified measurement on digital video will I think go a long way in getting unlocking the potential for digital video overall. And of course in our country there is another complexity of language is coming out. We are just at the tip of the iceberg and there will be more and more of this sort of coming up everywhere. So even for the industry to overall unlock and leverage it it will be a great boon and there are discussions happening and you are right it is not yet happened in any other markets and I think one of the reasons for it is people have not been able to arrive at a common currency and everyone is holding their own version of what should be a view and what should be a larger future for our perspective on what will actually benefit the overall sort of growth and get to that. My sense is there will my sense and I could be completely wrong all of us don't know the future and I popularly believe that we all believe that we know a lot which is not the case and always not the case here. So coming back to a unified you know I believe that there could be in India possibly two or three different platforms as opposed to a unified single platform. Just talking from a lens of a connected consumer and how he is leaving his data at different places. So Nishant two questions for you and you have been doing this for some time now right how has this space of measurement evolved in the last three to four years right started out versus what are the metrics now for you know measuring video. So that's one second is what are the barriers really for a unified measurement. So I think the first question is when we initially started working with a lot of advertisers what we saw is the looking for the incremental reach use as a definition slowly it started evolving to watch time engagement and that is where we realized that you know in order to unlock the potential of digital network. So that's why for ROI measurement is more important. So doing campaigns across different platforms I think there's still a challenge there where people are not able to actually backlink that campaign to the actual sales or the actual matrices which matter. For that what we as Viduli have done is that you know we've taken the content route where typically the end consumer does not care where he's watching the content is watching it wherever it's available. So if you look at the content on YouTube and if you look at the viewership on TV would be way more than what it's on digital but if you look at the Sony for example who has the rights in India on YouTube just before the round of 16 the highlights have crossed over 80 million views. So there's a certain section of the audience who's consuming that content on YouTube because it's available and when they're required and then measured it back to the final sales or an ROI then able to say that you know the campaign has actually worked. So rather than going because you're looking for incremental reach and you're looking for that ROI if you're able to understand the consumer journey that an consumer watches comedy content on YouTube in the morning, music content on Facebook and the news content on Twitter and able to target them with different forms of content I mean end of the day I think you brought again the topic which I was talking earlier. It's about everyone having its own opinion. I mean end of the day you are an expert in understanding the video consumption pattern behaviour from a consumer. He's an expert from a perspective of a data that is Facebook who has an expert from Consumer Bureau as there's YouTube XYZ. I think end of the day if all of us I mean all of you including us come together and help that one unified version of the content and then we can do it directly.  I mean there are advertisers part of that community, part of that panel. There are all the OTT platforms including YouTube, hotstar, Facebook, part of that panel. There are agencies part of that. I think something somewhere where we stop looking our self in isolation and look into more of a future which is going to not only talk, you will speak a same language which I will understand, I will buy it. I think that's where we need to focus and if we reach there it's good enough. But on that point when we're saying that you know not necessarily that would be an opinion because so we work with publishers across different platforms. So it's the data that speaks for itself, right? So I think what BAK is trying to do is trying to solve a larger problem but I think before we reach there what we need to do is we need to be able to I think measure and understand that performances across different content. So you know when you talk about digital videos, right? Multiple platforms and then the OTTs are also playing a big role, right? And clearly you know the measurements the metrics so you have Bidoli for one but they aren't integrated across all. So how is that impacting right now? You know looking at OTT differently versus YouTube and Facebook or so I mean we definitely need to measure and we want to know what is the impact and effectiveness of our plans. So we are finding different ways of measuring the impact. So if it is YouTube or I mean right now it is all boiling down to looking at different ways of measurement and different studies on different platforms. So as advertisers the challenge is then how do you sort of then you know synthesize all these learnings into a larger actionable strategy. So we are devising so there is a cross media research we are all investing behind a lot of research to learn from here and to sort of influence our plans and very different things we are doing which is why a unified measurement will hopefully help us to actually unlock some of that investments that we are doing to sort of you know measure various platforms and actually put it behind actually reaching consumers. So you know that is really the case but currently we are working with different platforms and looking at different measurements to try and understand the impact. Neel quick question for you. Sorry I will come to you. See we are talking about unified measurement on the digital platforms right but of course I mean you are in a way you know doing a national mass brand you know which involves multi medias and brand attribution to a specific medium versus you know television is still a challenge today right. So it is something more required in this unified measurement where you know it will help you isolate what you have done on digital versus you know there is no spillover from your traditional campaign or just we have a unified measurement and it is a month out. I think most of our plan I don't know who who involved or who launched the formula called random duplication. I think if that was not in our lives today there wouldn't be any any concrete efficient discussion in terms of what my media plan exactly is doing from a consumer's lens. I think today I take universe of Facebook, I take universe of horse star, I take universe of television on Bach and when we apply that random duplication and we identify our digital 50% reach I and TV has given me this much and hence I need to be efficient in a way and in digital is incrementally giving me this much I think that's the life of all of us at the media planner level and client level as of today but going beyond that I think so we need to also look into more from a structured, as she mentioned those cross media researchers, MMMs, brand lift service I think we need to look those things in the absence of unified version more from what the campaign has done to the consumer from a brand perspective. I think to be very honest not taking not biasing the discussion but we also, advertisers also need to start funding this at their own end but for example a third party for example for a OTT player is funding one cross media for me, to be very honest the results skewed towards that particular OTT platform. So end of the day if I don't go as a third party and take that up and do that on my own I will not see the reality, there are high chances the results may be skewed towards it. I think that's really important because that's the matrix which we believe and we internally track and change our perspective, our brand methodology, our marketing campus also. I think we need to work more on that particular angle also apart from one unified currency which we are looking for. The last two minutes actually mind share was speaking rather than L'Oreal so thanks for that Neil. Yeah Prasanna I think you had a point of view. You should have unified mattresses for measurement. At the same time you need to see what's happening over all right. You have seen some kind of regulations at EU like global data protection regulation and at the same time government also in India is working on data protection law. So while we certainly come up with the right set of a framework to do the measurement at the same time how can we really create in that kind of an architecture or a framework which will really take care of this data protection also. That's one area to look at because in the banks usually we've been provided by the MEP and the MEP and we've been able to prioritize or recommended your data has to be there within India and data centers in India. Now when we want to onboard new customers coming in from the different channels and these channels are on-boarded from the some of the outside data centers it becomes very challenging situation for the financial institutions. That's one another angle to look at although to see from where these customers are coming into us. And that's one way to look at when we are designing this kind of a mechanism of frameworks. We need to see data protection angle also. Nisha, tell me with the geo coming in, right? And somewhere, I might not have the exact statistics, but I think last year India was, I think, ranked 1, 45th or something like in data consumption. It's now moved to number one or number two position today. And thanks to all the disruption which is happening in the data bit. So with that, how are the metrics changing? I mean, the urban, rural. So earlier it would be lesser data consumption. You would probably look at it differently. But today, with all this explosion happening, is there a fundamental definition change of how videos are getting measured or nothing changes? I think from the measurement point of view, not much changes. But you need to still look at content or videos in a different way. Because the way a lot of the regional content is being consumed, the retention and the engagement is very different from how content in the metros are being consumed. The time of the day when the content is consumed is very different. The devices are very different in that behavior of like engagement. So the amount of, let's say, just sharing that happens on regional content as compared to what happened on the earlier content is vastly very different. So I think there are examples. So typically, let's say food for an example. And I think we were talking about it as well that when I say that Telugu or Tamil as a language, the amount of food content that has been consumed on across social video platforms is about 500 to 800 million views in a month. And there are about 50 to 60 good content creators or publishers who are creating content. As compared to when you see Marathi, there's about 250, 300 million views on Marathi food content, but there are only 10 content creators. So the equation being that there's a dearth of content there, there's way more scope in that kind of content being created. Just in terms of, let's say, music industry, if you see. All the content that was being created, Pojpuri is right now fourth, where it was in double digits probably last year. So with access and more penetration, that kind of content has started coming in. So it's a great sign for advertisers who are targeting the tier two and tier three cities. If they're able to get in the right research and identify that what are these people consuming, then I think it opens up a whole new avenue. And with them, I think one thing which we've seen in our data is that voice search is very popular because a lot of these people don't know how to type in search. They just use voice commands. So I think that coming in also then adds an interesting metric that what are you targeting? When you're targeting people, you're targeting people searching for certain type of things, written in text or in voice. So Deepak, with all this disruption, how has that impacted the segmentation that you have been doing so far? The audience segmentation. You mean because of GEO? GEO. Yeah. No, I think if anyone has got impacted, yes, the telcos have definitely got impacted in terms of shift or market share. Right? Earlier at the top, they were like, you obviously, you know, they were top three players were different and now GEO is one of the top three guys. Okay. What we are seeing here on the ground when it comes to consumption factors. So when you look at key metros, okay, or when you look at top cities where some of the telcos like were incumbent operators. So they are pretty much held onto their core profitable customers. Okay. And the long tail of India, you know, which is very cost sensitive, doesn't care what kind of device they use for browsing. Okay. Those are places where GEO has really made a huge foray. But by and large, we've seen closely because we look at data of two telecom operators very closely. So we have seen the average consumption of data, you know, done by consumers. So if the average consumption was about two gigs a month, six, eight months back, okay, that has certainly risen to about 10, 12 gigs a month. Okay. So data is getting consumed at a very fast pace, very, very fast pace. Coming back to you about Neil and Priyanka. So I agree that there needs to be a unified measurement and I think you articulated some of the parameters, right? And some of the challenges. So, and one of the key challenges is, you know, OTTs, et cetera, not being, you know, participating in the existing way. So when you said that, you know, as advertisers, you also need to come and, you know, look at measurement in different aspects, et cetera. This would still become a block, right, of people who want to participate versus people who are, you know, don't want to be a part of that currency. So how do you plan to, I mean, how do you plan to influence that in some manner as, you know, key advertisers from an industry perspective? Question to both of you. So, okay. I mean, will you still be looking at Hotstar differently or vote differently? No, I think from an advertisers perspective, there are only two ways to look at it right now. One is wait for Bach and pray for it that it becomes a currency for it. And I think that's the future which all of us are waiting to look at it. And until that has been reached, among the multiple options which are currently available, inclusive of those options, we need to start investing. So I, so one of the, one of the clients where, one of the clients which I had worked for had had an interesting panel in its existing brand track reports. I think for example, from an advertiser perspective, they believe in brand track the most. The end of the day, data reach XYZ is doing, but what consumers are thinking about my brand is clearly done. I think that particular brand had increased this digital investment, but the panels, the sample on the panel was still limited to only five to six percent on digital. So the output which was generating, which was still skewed towards traditional media, although of investment into, I think, post that a global organization, global mandate on that particular advertiser had helped them to include in parallel to the sample size of their investment into, for example, if I'm spending 25% of investment on digital, he should have representation of those 25% into sample size, and that's more directional way forward, which they can believe because they own that data and they take decisions based on that. Until that, we pray, bark, come, come soon. Anything you want to add, Priyanka? We are committed to sort of building investment and there have been many instances where we've tried and innovated over a new medium and actually gone and supported as early adopters of that new medium and partnered together to measure it in a manner that we sort of learn and we've also helped the platform. I mean, we've done a lot of work with Google and instances where we've adopted their new platforms and worked with them to build in measurement, learn, have them evolve the platform and also sort of look at how to make it more effective for us. So it is all a spirit of partnership and it's in our interest to make sure that we help each other to work towards a more... To a common currency of sorts. So I think all of us are aligned that there is, is a need for a unified measurement. Deepak only probably believes that there might not be one and we might be looking at two or three different metrics, but yeah. So do we have time for any audience questions or because our time is up? So the big boss over here is this lady called Kara. If she gives you a smile, which means you can go ahead if she gives you a stern look, which means no questions. It was a mix of both, honestly. So maybe you can decipher that for me, Siddharth. So because I like what you guys did really from the bottom of my heart, two questions, Silligarh? Sounds good, all right.  We will come. Sir, please stand up. What's your name, sir? Vikash. Vikash. Yes. You can ask your question. So okay, this question is to Priyanka or the gentleman next to her. So I keep reading and hearing that media owners, sorry, brand owners like yourself, you're setting aside 10 to 13% and don't, I mean, I may be wrong in the percentage, of your total advertising spends to digital. So the question to you is that, while whatever percentage that you're doing, where are you finding the money from? Or if I were to elaborate, which medium is kind of getting reduced or the spends are reducing in there and you're putting that money is to digital. So that's my question. There's a question to where we are finding the money from. We are finding the money from the existing advertising spends that is there. There is no Swiss bank account or some such account which says that invest on digital and grow. But clearly, I mean, there is a scientific approach that we're trying to use, which is both bottom up saying, okay, this is my brand, this is my audience, this is the task at hand. And therefore in order to, you know, deliver that the brand KPS and that is, what's the right plan to, you know, look at? What is the audience doing and therefore how to reach them? And that's how a bottom up plan is being driven. So a lot of digital investment, we are trying to do it with a more scientific approach than versus looking at any sort of mandate saying, okay, we will look at XYZ percentage. Of course, it's a growing medium and we're learning from it. So we are more sort of optimistic and aggressive at times in terms of opportunities. You pick a new opportunity, you spend and you learn quickly from it. And some you scale up and some you realize are not working. So that's really the measure with which we are doing. And the increase in spending is largely coming out of the fact that we know that more and more people are spending, you know, time on the audience. When looking at his face, he has a lot of money so he can also give it to us. Like Mr. Bappi Larry, he's got seven gold rings here. So any funds required, he's the man. All right, the gentleman on the right hand side. He wants to ask a question. What's up, sir? Good afternoon, how are you doing? Thank you. Hi, my question is to the advertisers on the panel. Now, Neil, you mentioned reach, resonance and reaction, correct me if I'm wrong. Since reach numbers are debatable and will continue to be debatable over the near future, I give you a hypothetical situation if new emerging online content creators approach you and they cannot promise good reach but they have good resonance and reaction. And same goes for Kriyanka, you as well. The question applies to both advertisers. Will you be considering such content creators on board or reach still occupies the top space in your mind? Clearly you got three things right so I'm obliged, reach, resonance and reaction. To answer your perspective, I think that's why all of us are here. I think end of the day, we are awaiting a unified measurement which goes beyond reach. And to give you a perspective, I think none of us today, there are enough platforms currently which gives us that reach buildup, including TV also which is maximum portion of a share and on digital there are other platforms, YouTube channels which build the reach. I think content is somewhere which at the back of proven studies have moved the needle on the resonance part. I think the more or less from a mind measures, awareness, likability, which you want to move from X to Y is that's where content comes into play. And to answer your question, I think that's the toughest job every content guy will have to convince the advertiser until there is defined standardized benchmark commonality in the industry which says this has proven records. I think there will be real sense of the world or XYZ, IMRB of the world will say that 300 case study put together, this is what it is all about. I think those are the only sources which we currently believe into and we take a call on that. All right, so two questions done. See how partial I am to you guys, man. All right, give it up for the force on stage please. I have another stalwart amongst us, Mr. Amit Khanna, I request you to come on stage, sir.  So first up, Mr. Deepak Khurana, you can go and give it to sir. Mr. Khanna will present it to Mr. Deepak Khurana. Up next, Mr. Nishant Radia. Thank you so much. Mr. Devendra Deshpande. Priyanka Gambhi. I hope you enjoy your gifts. There you go. Neil Pandia. Mr. Prasanna Lohar. Mr. Khanna, I request you to remain on stage. Thank you so much to all our dignitaries. Thank you for giving us such a lovely afternoon session as well.


You were in a meeting with a subordinate and as your phone rings you realize you forgot to silence it Do you check it and see who is calling? It could be important You might miss something and checking is reflexive. If you do check your phone What signal does that send to your subordinate? our Navy leader development framework defines connections as Developing a sense of identity in belonging for team members who is more important the unknown caller or the person right in front of you This much is certain. However, you handle a situation like this will send a message to your subordinate Lastly as a practical point. Do you know how to silence your office phone? For our work college phones that do not disturb option is two levels down from the main menu Check it and lead well this week


doing rocket science, but it's about diligence and teamwork for trying to complete the project successfully. And for that, we have the library part where we were getting weekly discussions and reports about the projects. Each student was reporting the amount of work that he did for the project and trying to come up with the plan for the upcoming weeks. So the next important part of my trip was to get some comments from Dr. Rodriguez for our prototypes because there were many small nuances that we couldn't understand as we don't have a medical experience. So for example, large modifications to the handle. Could we shortly just emphasizing that this comment came from a surgical practitioner and they are very important, very important details. For example, first one that there should be some slanted cut that would repeat the profile of the bone. You can see that here this part is removed. Another comment that was done that there should be some rounded end here that was also done and then this comes from my experience as a mechanical engineer in the field of machine tool design. Here I defined very close fits. Actually here the comment was that they don't fit close fits. They fit loser fits, which is better, which is less expensive from production point of view. Then as I mentioned they use x-rays during the surgery and the comment or suggestion was to make this part from that part from radio loosened material so that during the surgery it allows to see inside the leg. So this is not actual because we are just now are concentrated on the nails themselves. And then as I described there should be a special hammer but for inserting the nail and removing the nail when unfortunately there are cases that they need. It should be designed also. The important thing is to compare as we said and we compare the original part, Sintas model with our part through finite element analysis. So this is the model of the finite element analysis. We hold the bone. You see it is a bit transparent. You can see the nail and the screw, proximal screw within the bone. We hold the bone system from this part and we apply force from the tip of the heat and we see how it behaves. And we can see them separately. So this is the picture, the stress field in the bone and this is the stress field in the nail and screw. Of course here the models are simplified because it will take a lot of memory from computer too. And this is underway. We compare the models. One important aspect of comparison is related to so-called stress shield. The point is that the nail should not be too strong to take the complete load on itself. Something should be left also to bone for the bone not to degrade. And now this comparison, this red one is Sintas. Dependence of the stress over bone from stress over nail. This is this relation and this blue one is ours. So we see that they are closed but this is still underway. And as a conclusion, a couple words of conclusion. The first thing I want to mention that this is a nice experience of long term collaboration. I should say that we found some kind of fertile ground. Because the problem is a real problem because it's a very important problem for us. And because there are mutual willingness to do this problem, to complete it successfully. The next important thing that we have a good feeling, I cannot say still confidence. But it is a good feeling that the local production of this product is possible. Why not confidence yet? Because the real production should differ significantly from the production that have in our vision. A real production for consumers, for patients. So many things are done but much more still should be done. And many things are done within, as I said, these walls. But the project, if we to achieve the goal and the objective should have to go outside these walls. A lot of things to be done. And first of all, the weakest component in this project is the business component. Without market analysis, without business plan, we will not succeed. So that's it. If you have questions, then we will be happy to answer them. Questions or comments? I have two questions. I have two questions. One of them concerns, have you done any corrosion tests on the materials used or is it just on literature? My second question is, I am aware that there are some materials which may cause, I'm not sure if it's the correct term, there are allergic reactions or that type of reactions with some patients. Are there any guidelines to allow you to select which materials can be used, which could be used, or that's all? This is a well-known grade of titanium that is used in medical applications, particularly in this kind of implantation. So maybe Ara will give a more competent answer to this question. So as part of the first, as we followed the STM guidelines, STM specifies what kind of materials you cannot use in testing. And these materials are sort of manufactured and tested in those standards by the companies that basically develop them. So the titanium that we use here is a medical grade titanium. And also if we were to use stainless steel, what we use is also a medical grade that basically is applied, is gone to rigorous testing. So these are materials that have been tested. They are materials that are used for osteoporotic implants. And these are materials that have shown little biologic activity in the human body. So these are, this is something that the bridge has been crossed, so to speak, and we don't have to worry about. In terms of, it is also used? Student from our business school in doing the market research and the business football. I think we have capability here that we can train students to do the market research and beyond that can add value to your project. Thank you. So I applied two times to them with request to be involved in the project, but in the research as in format of capstone project, but unfortunately there is no response from them. I'm very sorry, you should have come to me. I don't know why they said no. So this is reality. Well, we can talk. Yeah, thank you. So maybe, I don't need the microphone, but can you make any comments about sort of EPIC and maybe next steps? Is there any interest or, I mean EPIC is a, not a group of people per se, do you as a project manager foresee kind of the gradual or quick motion towards EPIC? This part is machined on the exactly same machine tool that we have in our lab, since there is no someone who can...