A fiery horse for the speed of light, a cloud of dust, and a hearty hi-o silver, the Lone Ranger! When the western United States was settled and the raising of cattle became one of its foremost industries, they developed a decided need for transportation. Railroad companies hurried to extend their lines into the cattle country, and many ranchers became rich selling their spreads to the railroad representatives. Advanced information on which way the trains would travel was invaluable. The possibility of making huge sums of money attracted the lawless, and the need for law and order in this new country increased. It was then the Lone Ranger wrote of the cause of justice. He fought crime and criminals throughout the length and breadth of seven states, and the memory of his deeds will remain as long as the memory of the early west itself. Return with us to those thrilling days of yesteryear. From out of the past come the thundering hoofbeats of the Great Horse Silver. The Lone Ranger rides again! The construction gang of one of the large railroad companies had laid their tracks to a small community not far from the eastern slope of the Rocky Mountains. There they rested until their advance agents bought new land to the westward. Our story begins in a small temporary shack that served as the office of the construction gang. Zeke Slavin is talking to Harvey Grant, the assistant manager of the gang. Now, look here, Harvey. You've got access to the safe in your boss's office. Sure I have. But what about it? Heaven, that is the same as having the key to the bank. You get what I mean? I don't know as I do. Inside that safe are some papers that tell just where the railroad you work for is going to be laid. I still don't see them. No? Well, listen, close, Harvey, and follow me carefully. Go on. I got a little ready cash to work with, Savvy. Now, if I knew what land was about to be bought by the railroad, I could get options on that same and stick the railroad for a nice high price. And you think I'd double cross my boss? I know you would. Why, you dirty... Take it easy, Harvey. You can pull a wall over the eyes of a man like John Shaw, but not me. I happen to know your background, Savvy. You what? I says I know your background. I know that before you come here, you went by the handle of Jim Patterson on Washoe, and Jim Patterson was a crook. Phew! No, maybe we can talk sense. Look here, Zeke. Look here. I want them plans. You and me can both make us a little easy cash without costing anyone but the railroad money. It won't go. Why? They ain't but two men had the combination of that safe. One's John Shaw and the other's me. If the plans got out, I'd be the first one suspected. I thought of that. Then you see, I... I also thought of a way around it. What do you think of that? How? Suppose I figured the whole thing out so John Shaw's son would be the one accused of robbing the safe. It couldn't be done. It could. How? Listen, Harvey, see if there's anything wrong with this. Jack Shaw likes to play poker. Yes? I can get him in a game. Get him to lose cash and borrow from me on his IOUs. That won't be hard because the kid thinks he's a first-class poker player. While the poker game was in progress in the cafe, the lone ranger, unmasked but disguised, sat at a nearby table with Tonto. Jack Shaw should know better than to get the game like that. He's been losing money to Zeke Slavin all evening. Him, Crook. Well, come, Jack, if you want to lose so much. You look... Yeah, it's borrowing more money. I wonder why Zeke is willing to lend it to him. Zeke is planning something. I'd like to know what it is. I don't know. We're going to get closer to that table. It's just between the two of us, Jack. I'll call you. What have you got? Full house, queens and tens. Take a look at these. Four of a kind. You're sure holding them tonight, Zeke? I reckon that about finishes you, don't it, Jack? Oh, look, lend me some more money, will you? I know my luck will change. I know it will. I've let you have about a thousand already. I know, but just give me a chance. I got your IOUs for a thousand dollars. That's as far as I want to go. I'll pay you back. How can you? Look, just lend me a hundred dollars. That's all I asked you. Just a hundred. Well, I don't know. Give me a piece of paper. I'll write you another IOU. You'll write nothing. I... I don't serve you. I don't want your note. But there's something you can't do. There's something you can get that I might be willing to pay for. Now, what's that? Your hombres can mosey along now. I want to talk to Jack, Private. I forget about what you owed me if you got it. Well, what is it? If there's anything I can do... Your father's in charge of this here railroad. Oh, yeah, but... I hear there's plans to build a branch line to the south. And if a fellow knows just what land the railroad is figuring on buying, he might stand to make himself some cash. You can get that information for me. But I couldn't. Why not? Your father keeps the plans in his safe. I can't steal from my own father. Are you going to well, sir? I see the whole thing now. You cheated me to get me in debt to you. What's that? I'll bet you fix the card so you get me in debt to you. Why, you little...  I'll teach you. I'll kill you for that. Oh, wait. I ain't armed. I'll show you you're all right. All right. Keep out of this, stranger. Drop your gun. Keep your hands up. Thank you for coming with me. I'll get you for this. Stand back. I'll shoot the man who moves. Come on, Jack.  What's the matter? Come to watch him. All right, stranger. I'll teach you a way. Outside, Jack. Yeah. Where's your horse? Over there. Come on. Here, silver. What are you going to do, stranger? Steady, fellow. Jack. I heard what you said in there. You go home and stay there. Yes, sir. Get up there. Get him up, scoundrel. Come on, silver. Later the same night, Zeke Slavin met Harve Grant and told him about the fight in the cafe. It worked out just right. Even better than I thought it would. I heard that someone threw a gun on you. Yeah. Can you beat that? All I wanted to do was to stir up enough commotion so as everyone would know I held IOUs for the kid. What was he aiming to do if that hombre hadn't interfered? I had a dead cartridge in my gun. I'd have snapped the hammer and there wouldn't have been no shot. Then I'd have slammed the kid in the jaw and left. I didn't need this, have you? That was even better than doing as you're playing in the first place and having me there to bust up a fight. Now you're clear to let me have that information, ain't you? Well, I... Ain't you? Sure, sure thing. And the kid will be suspected of it. I'll tell you tomorrow about him getting in debt to me. You know, and money. He'll hear all right. I'll see to that first thing in the morning. All your facts. I'll just tell you what I heard. That's all, boss. Of course, it's none of my business. I thought Jack had learned not to gamble. Well, you can't be too harsh with him, boss. He's young. Oh, I'm sorry to hear it. Sorry to hear it. It's bad business, gambling. Of course. If I had known it was going to affect you that way, boss, I wouldn't have said anything about it. I'm glad you did. I'll have a talk with him. How much did he lose? I don't know. But the folk said it was a sizable amount. Harv, you go out and check with the stage station about the equipment we're expecting. Now? Yes. All right, boss. But I got some work to do here tonight. Well, let him go. Jack will be in in a little while, and I want to have a talk with him alone. Whatever you say. Approval of the plans I send east should be in on the next mail. You can watch for them. Well, that'll be what... Huh? It'll verify everything so we can go ahead, won't it? Yes. Well, I'll see you later, boss. You wait here. What do you want, agent? Me want to talk. Let me go. I'm in a hurry.  You just talked about game last night. You've been listening at the window. Oh, that's right. All right. What of it? Ain't any of your business, is it? How you know about game. What do you mean? Why shouldn't I know about it? It's all over town this morning. That's right. But you'll not in town.  Why, blast your hide. There ain't no business of yours. Now, stand aside before I throw lead. Yeah. Time to go now. Get him up, scoundrel. What the dickens did he mean? Who is he anyhow? Morning, Mr. Grant. Oh, morning, Jack. Who was the red skin that just rode away? I don't know. Looking for a handout, I guess. You pause inside. He wants to see you. All right. Thanks. You going in? I'm going to town. I'll be back by and by. So long. Bye. Jack, what's this I hear about you gambling last night? Who said that? Who told you?  What's the matter? Don't you trust me? Well, I... You let everyone in the cafe know you're a pal of gamblers, but let me know it. Did you think I wouldn't find it out somehow? Things get around? Yeah. I guess they do. Oh, gosh, boy. How much did you lose? Well, I lost all I had. Your savings? Yeah. That was a lot of money. Almost $100. I know it. Still, I can't imagine a professional gambler being interested. That wouldn't be much to him. Well, I... I... Go on, Jack. I lost more than that. More? How could you lose more? You didn't have any more. He took my IOUs. Well, what good are they? How do you figure you'll be able to pay him off? Boy, I don't have to pay him off. He cheated. Did you tell him that? Yes, I did. And I won't pay him what I own. He drew a gun and he was going to shoot me. Then another man stepped in and stopped him. Pretty lucky for you, wasn't it? Well, but then maybe it wasn't.  Oh, what do you mean? He'll want you to make those IOUs good somehow. I don't know how you're to do it, son. But he cheated, pal. That don't matter. If you knew he cheated or was likely to cheat, you shouldn't have played. Too bad, Jack, but I'm afraid you're in sort of a tough spot.  I'm not asking for your help. He wouldn't do you any good, Jack, because I can't help. I don't have any money to pay off your gambling debts. I know you don't. You'll have to figure some way to pay that gambler. And that's going to call for a lot of figuring. When Tonto met the Lone Ranger, he told about the meeting with Harve Grant. Hmm, I wonder how that man did know about last night. Me not know. He couldn't have gone to the town after we left. The place was just about ready to close up. That's right. And he wouldn't be likely to have seen anyone this morning. Now, though, I want to ask him a few questions myself. Hmm? There's a chance that he might have known beforehand that Jack was going to lose some money. I don't know why Slavin would have taken the youngster into a card game unless he had some scheme in mind. What? Scheme. I don't know that either. Here's a little bit. Here's a little bit. We're going to try and find out. Yep. Come on, boy. Get him up, Scout. Around noon, Harve returned from town. A lone ranger on Tonto arrived at the office. A few moments later. Oh, Scout, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. There, window where. Can't hold it. Ah, look in. I don't want to go inside until we're sure Grant is back from town. Stay there with the horses, Tonto. Tonto, wait. That's what I told him, Grant. And it'll give him something to think about. He sure will. I'd be downright worried, boss, if I had given a gambler eye or use without a chance to pay him off. Now here's what I plan, Harve. Here? I'll help Jack out. I'd be a mighty poor father if I couldn't stand behind my own son when he's in trouble. I'll help him out, but not just yet. I want him to worry about this long enough to get a good lesson. That's a good idea. But I don't want the gambler to try and shoot him again. No, sir. I want someone I can trust to keep an eye on Jack.  I can hold my own. I'll attend to your work for a time and you keep an eye on Jack. Trailing? Yes. Whatever you say, boss. Don't let him know you're watching him. And don't interfere with anything he does. But just stick close enough to help him in case that gambler makes a sure thing. You can count on me. Tutto, I'm not going to speak to Grant. No? No. He's been given a job by Jack's father. He's going to watch Jack. And instead of speaking to him about last night, we'll follow him. I think we'll learn more that way. Though the manager of the railroad didn't know it, he played right into the hands of Harvey Grant when he gave him the job of guarding Jack. Before the next exciting scenes, please permit us to pause for just a few moments. When the lone ranger decided to investigate Harvey Grant, the assistant to the boss of a railroad crew, he learned that Grant was assigned the task of protesting the manager's son, Jack. As our story continues, Zeke Slavin meets Harvey Grant late at night. Right over there is where you live, ain't it, Harve? You know it is. Living right with your boss and his son. That makes it just swell. Now, look here, Zeke. You got to keep me out on this thing. If it's ever found out that I'm the critter that takes the information from the safe, it won't... It won't be learned, no fear for that. The kid will take the blame for it. He'd better. And the fact that you're watching him makes it a cinch for you to tell John Shaw plenty of suspicious things. Yeah. Tonight's as good a time as any to open that safe.  Now? Sure. Why not now? If I find out tonight where the railroad's going to run, I can start out first thing in the morning to get options on that land. Now, Zeke, you've got to be sure and keep me in the clear. You don't even worry about that. Come on, I'll go with you. But Jack is... He's in a house, ain't he? Yeah. Good place for him. You'll stay there for the night. We might not... Very well. Keep moving, now. Sheriff's just over here, will you say? I'm worried about this thing, Zeke. If John Shaw ever found out the truth about me... He won't unless you double-cross me. Then he'll hear up plenty. Wait! I'm out of here. Thought I seen something move in that dark shadow ahead of us. You're seeing things. Come on. You're sure that after you get the options on the land, Shaw can't do nothing to you? What can he do? We make him think his son squared the IOUs by giving me that information and he won't start no trouble. There! Huh? Thought I saw that shadow again. Zeke, there's someone heading for that shack. I ain't seen nothing. My eyes are sharp in the dark. There's someone there. You're just trying to back down. Now keep going. If anyone's there, he ain't no right to be there. So we'll drill him for it. Shaw is back in the house with his kid. Here. And he's the only one with the right to be in the shack. There's the shack. We won't make no more light than we have to when you open the safe. Come on, Silver! There's Zeke. See him now? There he goes riding that white horse. What would that be? The horse will just be on the shack. That's all right then, as long as he keeps riding. Let's go in now. Zeke, the door is open. It was closed when I left this afternoon. Well, it's open now and that saves us the trouble opening is. Come on in. Keep your shooting iron handy, Zeke. Stop being so yellow. Get that safe. You stand watch. Sure. And hold the light for me. I will. I'll get it open and find that paper. I'll read it and note what land will be the best investment. And you can close the safe and we'll clear out. I'm worried about that man that ran away from here. I wonder who he was. Get the safe open. You'll for sure arrange so Jack will get the blame. I told you I wouldn't, I will. The first thing in the morning. As soon as I get my land options. About noon the next day, John Shaw sat alone in his office. He looked up when the door opened and saw one of the townsmen standing there. Your name, Shaw? Yes, what about it? John Shaw? Yes, yes, of course. What do you want? I got something for you. Zeke Slavin sent him. Who? Zeke Slavin. Reckon you know who he is, don't you? What did he send me? These here papers. Said to tell you that everything was square and he's much obliged. I owe yous. Uh huh. He sent these to me. Ain't that your name on them? I don't know nothing more than that. Said he was much obliged. I delivered them and that's all I know. All right, thanks. Might is strange. Of course these were meant for Jack. How in the world did he pay them off? Two hundred, five hundred. Huh. Total of a thousand dollars. Oh, Bob. Oh, Jack, I want to speak to you. Howdy, boss. Hello. Jack, a man just came in and brought some papers. He thought they were for me. Yeah? They were signed by John Shaw. But it was you who signed them, not me. What were they? Here. Well, those are the IOUs. That's it exactly. What did he send these back for? That's what I'd like to know. Why, without these, he can't collect from me. From what was said, I thought he'd already collected. How could he? I ain't seen Zeke Slavin since he beat me under the money. No. Jack, I wouldn't try to lie to you, Pa. He took in very easy. What do you mean, Grant? I've been watching you. Watching me? Sure. Your Pa asked me to keep an eye on you so you wouldn't get into more trouble. Pa, did you do that? Well, son, I sort of thought that maybe... Having me shadowed, huh? All right, then. I'm having you shadowed. And from the look of things, you can stand a lot of watching. Harve, did he see Zeke Slavin? Yeah, him and Zeke had a confab yesterday afternoon, late. That's a lie. I didn't hear all that was said, but he told Zeke a lot of things. Then they shook hands and left. What did you give him for these IOUs? I didn't give him anything. He didn't see nothing change, Hans, boss. Must have been something Jack told him. I don't know what sort of information he would sell that it'd be worth a thousand dollars. That's a pack of lies. I never saw Slavin yesterday afternoon. And if you claim you saw me talking to him, it ain't true. I can understand how you try and keep yourself in the clear, Jack. Stop it! The more you say, the worse you make me look. Jack, listen to me. But I... I said to listen. I'll do the talking for a change. Now there'd be no reason for Harve to say you was talking with Zeke. If you were, would there? I don't know. It's all wrong. Why? Let's suppose that you did talk to him. What did you say? But, Paul... I'd like to believe that Harve grants not tell him the truth, son. But it looks as if you've done something that Zeke appreciated so much. He sent back these IOUs. All right, then. If that's what you think, there's nothing more for me to say. Son, I have always been on the level with you. Why can't you trust me? I told you, Paul... I've always stuck with you. I've always... Hey, Paul! Paul! What do you think, Mark? What are you doing around here? I thought you were... I had to come in. We've been double-crossed. What's that? I started dealing with the owners on the first piece of land and found that they'd sold an option on it to Zeke Slavin. Slavin? An option? That means he'll stick us for a high price for that land. And that ain't all, boss. When I heard that, I checked on the next ranch. And Zeke had already been there, too. He's taken options on all the land we want to buy. Why, that dirty underhand... Boss, that looks awful bad. Zeke's able to open your safe, ain't he? I didn't touch that safe. If he told Zeke Slavin where the land was going to be bought up, it would be well worth Slavin's while to give back the IOUs. Boy, you can't believe that of me. I didn't do anything in the sort of... Oh, Lykke. Lykke, I'm her own son. Jack, why do you have to fight against your father? Oh, I didn't do anything in the sort of... Not a thing we can do about it. There's no law to stop Slavin from getting options on that land. That's all legal. No law to stop him. There's nothing we can do but buy the land at his price if the railroad wants it. Ah, that washes me up with the company. Let me go. Let me go. What the... Let Zeke Slavin... You're bullshitting me. Mask! Look at the way he shoves Slavin across the room. Hey, all of you. Don't reach for a gun. Well, that voice... Well, arrest her. I wouldn't advise anyone to move too fast. You, Slavin, stand right there against the wall. We're going to talk things over. See here, stranger. What do you mean by throwing that rat in here and then holding guns on the rest of us? The rat, you speak of sure, was buying up options on the land your railroad needs. That's what I told you, boss. And what's it to you? I have an idea that you're going to accuse the wrong man of making this work possible. He is. That's my voice now. You saved my neck at the cafe. What's that, Jack? I told you, Pa. That's the man that kept Slavin from drilling me after that card game. I suppose I should be grateful to you for saving my son's life. I don't watch a gratitude show. Then... money? No. Nothing but a square deal for a man who's been framed. That's me, Pa. I told you... All along, have that mask man thrown into jail. He ain't no right to handle me like he done. We'll have the law here soon enough, Zeke. And you'll be the one to get thrown into jail. You needn't worry about your land, Shaw. Needn't worry. Slavin has bought some options, but... All right, Shaw, he's right. I did buy options. And spend my last dime to get them. But you will pay up plenty to get the land you want now. What's more, if you don't let me get out of here, I'll double the price. How did you know what land we wanted? I told you that... That's my business. One minute. I'm glad you spent your last dime for those options, Slavin. Because when you don't take them up, you'll lose all your cash, yeah? Only I won't lose, Savvy. I'll sell them to the railroad. If you want that land, Shaw, I'm the one you gotta deal with. He's right, boss. The law can't touch him for buying the options. You'll forget that when the end of the term on the options is reached, Shaw can buy the land at the same price you plan to buy it. Yeah? Well, it won't lapse, see? I'll take up them options. You can't do that if you're in jail. Jail! What am I to go to jail for? I broke no loan. That's why you're wrong. You and Harv Grant came to this office last night. You opened that safe and stole the information you used. Stranger. Are you sure of that? It ain't so. That's what happened, Paul. That must have been it. He's local. He and I weren't in this office last night. When you came here, you saw me. I was just ahead of you, Grant. Oh, that's... He's trying to make us admit something, Harv. He can't prove no such story as this. Do you know what was done when I was in this office just before you? What? Suppose someone put a powder that is known as magenta in that safe just before you came here last night. Do you know what magenta does? What? I ain't interested. What's it do? It doesn't show at the time, but later, when your hands are dipped in water, it turns red. Oh, that's right. And that red color will find the crooks. Tado, bring in the water. Lawman, outside now. Lawman. The sheriff. My friend brought him to make some arrests. Put the water there, Tado. Uh-huh. Dick, you're accused of opening that safe. Dip your hands in the water. I didn't touch the safe. Then dip your hands. See? They ain't turned red at all. I've told you that Zeke and Harv were here. Now, let's have a look at their hands. Come on, Harv. I don't have to. I don't believe what word you're saying. Grab his hands, Tado. Doubt them in that water. Sure. I washed my hands this morning. They didn't turn red. Perhaps it takes time for the powder to work. Put the hand in water now. Put it there. There. They're red. You can't hold me. Listen, I... You're the one that gave the plan. You're the one that gave the plan. You're the one that gave the plan. You're the one that gave the plan. You're the one that gave the plan. They're red. You can't hold me. Listen, I... You're the one that gave the plans away. Boss, let me talk. Slave and made me do it. I didn't have no choice. Sorry to get me in it.  I won't let no one double-cross me. You're wanted for crimes, and I'm squealing on you. That's all that's needed. Come on and get them, Cheryl. Look, and they talk a penny or four. We're done. You squeal on me. Zeke and I'll tell a few things. And she's a jack in that card game now.  Come on on your way, boys. Come on. I reckon we better get all this loose talk down and right. He'll be right handy at the trial. Paul, that puts me in the clear. It does, son. And I guess you've learned a lesson. I have. So have I. I won't mistrust you again. But stranger, wait a minute. Yes, your... I don't understand. How did you get into the safe last night? And if his hands didn't turn red when he washed them this morning, why did they turn red now? I didn't open the safe. How to rub the powder on when he grabbed his hands to soak them. Grant's guilty conscience did the rest. But wait. Thanks. Jack, it all goes to show what a guilty conscience will do to a man. The story you have just heard is a copyrighted feature of the Lone Ranger Incorporate.


Hello, can you hear me yep, we hear you again, so it's up to you. We have four slides, please and take us to the agenda Great Okay, so today we'll have a presentation, but I want to talk a bit about the working groups Before that you go to the next slide, please So we've had five people vote for the safe slash security working group I'm not really somebody who feels very comfortable talking about security, which is one of the reasons I haven't voted or I think something like this is needed Is there somebody else who's on the call today who has a TOC vote who would like to be the 6th vote or Or at least say clearly what they're concerned about that we need to finish to get this over the line I would say I have not voted I Generally have concerns about working groups and What they're trying to achieve and what they have achieved and what our mechanisms for Oversight are and since there have been a number of cases where Disagreements have Started in working groups whether I question whether we have enough community management to really Properly manage Expanding Number of working groups. So like other than the serverless working group, which are viewed the white paper. It's not clear to me what the other Working groups are Are are doing, you know, we have occasional brief updates, but I don't feel like they've been that reflective of Like what value they're actually providing to us Okay Does anyone else want to add to that? We've got this this will be a good topic. This is a good segue into the next topic actually about generally Cascaries and working groups Does anyone else want to say anything Brian country will use you online? Yeah, and I was I mean I shared those concerns I think the thing that I also get concerned about is that It's unclear what authority that we are investing in these working groups and I just become concerned when People feel that they've got more authority than they might have other people on the working group of people not the working group are Vesting this with more authority than we are kind of perceiving. So I've got all the same concerns. Yeah, that has definitely come up in the past I Mean those would be things that we absolutely need to get more clarity on especially if we're going to be Creating more different sort of subgroups within the CNCF Those subgroups will need to have some degree of responsibility and accountability in order to function well And I think we also as we saw recently with cloud events would like to have more clarity around the projects are coming out of the working groups as well What their role is and expectations around that? So We could try and discuss that today or we could try and work it out Offline Brian and Brian. What would your preference be? I don't feel comfortable asking you to vote if you have these doubts and I'm not gonna vote until you know, we've got a bit more clarity. So what would you like to do? Do you know should we come out of working session on this and try and plan it out or is it a face-to-face topic? What do you think? Yeah, I think planning Some meeting time to discuss this so we can prepare ahead of time and the people who have been more involved with some of the working groups can Can bring to the rest of the TSE what they feel The value is that the working groups are delivering and you know have an opportunity to address the concerns or propose changes to how We provide oversight or don't To the working groups and things like that. I don't know if we have all of the working group sponsors on today I don't see a band, but I think Ken is often networking and Quinton is not on are you on Quinton? Okay, yeah, Ken and Camille are on I guess But you know the the working groups have chargers that are fairly broad and vague in general and this one is no different and it's I'd be more comfortable with like more specific Goals, I don't know if we just plan for these groups to exist forever You know as we expand the scope of the CNCF fracturing into sub areas or something like that. I think that's Worth figuring out But I don't really feel like I have You know other than the one white paper that was produced and the cloud events project that came out of the serverless working group It's not really clear to me what the other working groups that are really Providing to us And I think we have had some examples where the working groups have churned more than we would like Where it feels feels less productive than I think they would like or we would like Yes, right Okay Well, there's definitely tie into the next topic. So let me let me take you through that because I think this will That will be useful. So let's go over to the next slide, please Let's just skip this slide, please Project presentations go check them out. Let's skip the next slide, please Okay so this is the categories topic which kind of overlaps with working groups and this was trying to Figure out a way to make the CNCF Project universe a little bit more manageable a bit clearer to have more focused efforts around the sub areas I talked about this a couple of meetings ago and there was some some good feedback on it This is a very very slightly Tightened up proposal. It's not a full written out document And I do think we need that but I wanted to offer this as a sort of another Update and try and figure out how we're going to break this off and make it make it work Because I think we don't do something like this We're just going to end up with a massive sprawl of Projects ranging from large down to small so the proposal is to have a concept of a category and a typical category might be observability or security or It could even be for a very large project such as Kubernetes It could be its own category and it could have affiliated projects around it in the same category and then The things that would be associated with that category would could include You know as a landing page on the CNCF website, which describes the category. What's in it? What it's for He's supporting white paper along the lines of the serverless white paper and a supporting landscape along the lines of the serverless landscape Then this the second point is a mechanism for essentially federating the TOC So what could that look like number one? The sandbox projects that at the next specific category when they get regularly reviewed could be reviewed within that category because I think that That would create greater focus and it would also So save the TOC from doing a lot of that kind of work and then have a quarterly and annual check-in with the TOC so just as a small amount I've suggested a quarterly check-in could be a 15 minute presentation from the Working group running the category and then an annual check-in might actually have a more formal structure With a you know document of what we've done this year and what we'd like to do next Do you see the answer to your question is yes on the next slide Another thing that might happen is we could delegate some of the work supporting technical marketing To the category leads and the members of the category so user guides talking to analysts talking to other people I Don't know if this is good or bad idea, but I do think there is work to be done here that could be done in a different way So Alexis can I ask what is so what's the problem? We're trying to solve here? Well, I'm worried that we're just gonna have a ton of projects and the CF TOC is gonna be completely overwhelmed Okay, which is fair Maybe it's worth exploring that a little bit and what some other alternatives are because I've got a lot of concerns I mean just You've got domains where you've got a couple of different approaches Where there's been a lot of more? Heat than light I think in some of the the public discussions anyway on some of the issues And I would be very concerned that we would be Recreating some of the problems we saw where the working group model didn't work where you effectively have your you've got a battlefield for belligerence with without any sort of of control or oversight And everyone believing that they are fighting that they need to fight a battle to the death because that working group will decide the future of that particular domain And I don't know that that's going to be productive And I think it's definitely contrary to what we want to avoid being king makers and I'm concerned that if we Federate ourselves we are effectively saying that well the job of king making is so exhausting We're going to delegate the king making out which is to me a recipe for for this kind of federated conflict. I think that Those are all good points the TOC should remain the decision-maker on project acceptance and fundamental graduation issues, but I think there is a benefit to You know trying to channel Desire to contribute in the from the community into productive areas Otherwise the TOC could become a bottleneck so the question is You know, what are the what are the things that are really important for the TOC to do and be as objective and fair about as possible and Try and be vendor neutral about and what are the areas where? You know, we we allow for the fact that contributors who volunteer may have some kind of agenda so One thing that would that would be helpful would be to have some of these domains Kind of operate as investigative staff does in a legislative body where they are They're tasked with actually the findings of fact to actually set the landscape And help inform decisions that we might make where they're not trying to they're just trying to say here Which approaches best but here are the five different approaches that are out there in the observability world say and and maybe talk about the the the trade-offs that that each is making in their own words That I think would be helpful my concern I mean observability in particular Maybe I've been spending too much time on Twitter, which is almost certainly the case But I just feel like that's a good example of where there's been a lot of just Fierce combat from people who should otherwise agree about the abstract problem They're trying to solve but they happen to work for different companies So they're just at one another's throats and I really really don't want to create a venue for that under the CNC F banner I Don't want to have the CNC F be a lightning rod for people's anxieties about the success or failure of that company or project either That would be very demoralizing But you know what what are the Brian what do you think are the good aspects of this proposal? I mean you mentioned the investigative groups in the US US legislative system What else would you think is important here? Because it's obviously touches on with it's a role for the work trying to formalize what working groups actually do around these areas Yeah, and I think it would be helpful I mean if we can find some way to to help inform the TOC because obviously we're not domain experts in in in everything by a Long shot and there are a lot of these areas where there are kind of subtly different approaches that Vemently disagree with one another and it's hard for us to figure out what's actually going on And it would be very very helpful to have some documents that help inform that and I guess my question is how So I think it's that is a good problem to solve I just how can we solve that problem without creating additional ones? I guess the challenge. I don't know. So I have an answer I think it's tough Okay Well, I think if we create a bunch of subgroups one thing that's definitely going to be required is actual active community management to keep the peace and You know someone mentioned isn't that what we have code of conduct for unless you have people who are very Skilled with how to deal with these kind of inner personal Issues and intervendor Arguments and disputes things can escalate very quickly You know despite some people's good intentions, you know Engineers and whatnot aren't necessarily the best people to do this, especially if they're involved in the heated technical discussions You really need to have people who are Whose that's their role to do that You know, and we've definitely seen this explode in a few instances in the past So I also share that concern, you know to answer the question of what could be good about this, you know, I do think we need some more structure. I'm Not super happy with Us just reviewing projects as they express interest I feel like we need to get more Proactive and we are bandwidth constrained So if we could say look we aren't gonna accept any new projects in this area until we have like a landscape overview and we actually understand what the Significant projects are in that space and then we will ask them all to present and we will decide which ones are a fit and which ones are not a fit according to you know our various Principles and other criteria I Think if we don't if we don't do that. We're just gonna I I just don't I I'm I just don't see how we like scale this there's so I mean like the straw man list of categories is so many categories and It's already a ton of work. I mean frankly It's already like a reasonable amount of work doing to see calls Looking at projects voting, you know kind of keeping an eye on things adding active working group You know Commitments is Like I just at this point. I feel like we are not scaling the TOC very well I don't know if my fellow TOC members feel that way But you know, I think some like obviously each of us has a bit different ability to commit Time to this process But you know the more fine grained we break things down It's useful in certain ways, but like we just can't expect that there's gonna be a TOC member who's going to be You know in it for each one of these different categories and like, you know trying to Mediate and provide advice to the other TOC members like I like it's just not scaling I don't think and and I think that's a big problem that we're seeing right now with the With the order. I'm not sure I'm breaking this down in categories It's not a bad idea if we can figure out how do we then Make that so that delegates can do the work and not have it be TOC members But it will be political if we do that period in a story I mean the fact that Brian suggested that this is like, you know legislative analysis It's like yes, I'd let like and guess who's guess who's influencing them. It's like the lobbyists are all over the place Yeah, that's a totally fair point. I think and I think I Totally agree Camille that the that we don't have The time or bandwidth to do this and I also feel like adjudicating between two rival startups is something I've got zero interest then In even if it's a domain in which I've got expertise. Maybe especially if it's a domain in which I've got expertise I think that part of the problem is that we have implicitly been tasked with too much in that there are There are too many people who believe that the that that being a CNCF project means more than I think we think it should be And as a result they have created this this kind of very high stakes Kind of interaction that I don't think we want I mean, I think that that's part of the concern that I have is that we are Under siege in part because of the popularity of Kubernetes and which is great In the popularity of a lot of these technologies but the flip side of that is that everyone believes that that being a You know a five pixel high icon on a landscape website is going to make or break them Which of course it won't but it's very hard to to to prevail when that that belief is so strongly set. I This is a Louise from Portworx. I think the main issue is that Customers are making decisions due to those those rankings. Yeah, they're not They're really not sorry No, no, maybe it's about you raising your next round, but but customers No, no, there's no reason about it. I don't I'm not in that I'm engineer But I'm just saying that we have seen customers make decisions because they say this project is part of CNC They're very clear about that Well, you know Brian, I have to I have to add one up on that is that I also think there are plenty of people at big companies That are saying my next promo Is based on me getting my project? Yeah, I am a hundred percent sure that is happening and Right of our sandbox projects, right? So we've just we've got a project explosion on our hands that's coming from you know from startups who believe that this is a Competitive advantage from people at big companies who are trying to you know get their staff engineers senior staff engineer approved whatever So we are literally standing between them and their bonus, which is not where we want to be. Yeah, yeah So but how do we change that perception? I don't think adding a blurb to the website having some disclaimer saying hey, even though this is on here Don't make your decisions based on that is not going to cut it. So I mean, I have to agree with Camille from just the number of projects trying to Really do a technical analysis of that. It's impossible at least coming from me Like wanting to really look deeply into each one of these projects. It's not scaling So, I mean, how do we change the culture of what that means and then how do we get enough coverage on these? So that if these are as high as steaks is People are putting in there regardless of what we say. Are we actually doing enough due diligence for each one of these? And personally, I'm only going to speak for myself. I don't feel like I'm doing a good job at that I mean, we're doing quite a bit of DD for incubation. We've deliberately lowered the bar for sandbox, right? One of the benefits of the categories is to kind of push the sandboxes over to under each category So it's kind of even more out of the way You're just in the sandbox for some particular category, but I was like this that we could for example, you know Whether it's three categories or 10 whoever's associated with Managing that category should I hope be more of a community thing who'd come to the TOC periodically with an overview What's going on so that the TOC's interaction with a lot of this noise could come through that signal? And of course that then creates potential for politics, but I can't see it Another way of doing it without just increasing the number of voting members of the TOC, which brings another set of issues. I Don't think that we've successfully distinguished the sandbox from incubation for most people. I just looked through some Press articles this morning and most of them Well, none of them mentioned sandbox in the headline and many of them don't Even mention it in the article or if they do they certainly don't Explain it. So I think the sandbox projects are still getting more publicity than is warranted, you know based on our press releases and You know, we talked about well, how do we lower the stakes? I think As we accept more projects I am starting to hear CNCF will take anything now From people which again, because they don't distinguish sandbox from the other projects I don't think that's what we want either. So I don't know how we can more strongly brand The sandbox projects differently, but we're not succeeding in that right now right Okay I don't think we're going to reach a conclusion today So I'm going to call a halt to this part of the discussion But I think this has been a good airing of the issue and I do think it's very much around scalability politics Can we go to the next slide, please? That was just basically parsing of the landscape into some buckets And then go to the next slide, please Wait, I have some question a question about the buckets I mean, so we we have some buckets on the trail map and in the reference architecture Do you these don't look like they exactly line up with those? No, this is based on the landscape rather than the trail map I'm happy to use any other bucketing. This was just a again a straw man Okay, yeah, I have no emotional Okay, thanks Okay, so let's move on to the presentation because we've got 30 minutes left net data Okay, do we have a speaker on from net data, please? Yes. Here I am The floor is yours. Okay. Thank you very much So guys, thank you very much for for giving me the opportunity to present you the data Let's go to the first slide immediately or I Would like to give you a brief overview of the motivation behind the data. Why why people love it? Why we did it? So I used to work for the last 10 years for a FinTech company, you know financial transactions are quiet in case you Etc. And we had a very simple as a lay or 90% of the transactions have to be completed within one second and The maximum duration for any successful transaction is five seconds. We had an infrastructure a large infrastructure back based on hadoop and time PSDB and You know all this kind of a patchy ecosystem bundled with several commercial services everything was host on Azure etc The problem was that Okay, we had the clear indication of that of when transaction failed to meet the SLA But after that we had nothing so at the end of the day We were forced to run console tools all over the place Almost permanently to be able to troubleshoot performance issues Then we started developing this tool The data the data was initially a small a very small data collector it collected metrics or fire resolution per second and had the memory class and Could could it was able to visualize them using Google charts and the likes immediately understood that People I you know most of the companies Consider having a time series that a base where people can query it and do stuff like that We immediately figured out that this does not work Why because people do not understand the metrics. They don't know the metrics So a developer is capable of understanding his own metrics the metrics of the application but after After that he knows almost nothing. He needs the expertise of sys admins of network admins of DPAs, etc So we understood that we need of course We needed more metrics in order to find correlations between them But we also understood that we need a different visualization a visualization of that could provide Insights on the correlation of the metrics and how they relate to each other. Let's go to the next slide So as time as time passed we added more more data collection Mechanisms we use Everywhere we use the most efficient way resource efficient way So we want this thing to be very fast very very thin and very resource efficient We changed the database the format of the database so instead of working on a bunch of metrics You know almost time says that a basis work on a bunch of metrics It's something different because in the in the database there is the meaning of the metrics each metric has units has Calculations to do that to convert the units It is correlated with other metrics in charts charts are in families families have an application, etc So the idea is that we wanted to give the users Something they can they can browse immediately without knowing Anything by or to that and then we wanted to be open and better and degradable So not to introduce another engine another, you know ecosystem in the in the enterprise Let's go to the next one So what is net data today net data is a data collection agent You install it on your or your machines. It has around dropping database So it's a cast for a few hours. Let's say The data collection everything is real time everything happens per second It can stream metrics between a data server So you can have a headless and headless in a data collector and then a master server or a proxy server That collection restrooms the the metrics receives and retransmit the metrics It can archive its metrics to time series databases like Prometheus like graphite open this db, etc It has embedded a health monitoring watchdog. So this one stock has statistical algorithms and Can support rolling windows and all this kind of stuff in order to to to evaluate alarms to generate health monitoring events It can dispatch this events of course and then API the API is pretty simple pretty simple It is five calls all of it But then we built on top of this API Visualization engine as a static web page as a static static web app So it's just a HTML CSS and JavaScript that queries the appy and presents the the whole dashboard Let's go to the next please So that's the history we released it March 2016 to when half years ago today That's all the history of so what we built through these two years Today we have 32k github stars about a million unique users about half a million unique nodes monitored 24 actually is today docker pools 24 million docker pools a lot of contributors and the community is growing by 2k new unique users per day and 1000 new nodes Next one, please So collecting matrix out per second to stuff here is a chart to the animated chart is of a of a busy, let's say cloud environment a cloud VM where you can see that Latency data collection latency on proc file system reaches even a hundred milliseconds randomly This is a problem because this this introduce about 10 percent error Randomly on the data we collect the data does this right so it it it collects it it measures the latency for each For each five proc file separately so that the interpolated data are always accurate at the end Let's go to the next one, please So that a collection of that as a portion turn plug isn't external plugins internal plugins and written in C Also, they are threads inside the data external plugins are in any language. You like of course We we wanted to to to simplify things so we support data collection orchestrators the main orchestrator is written in Python We will see later. It has a lot of modules, but we support all other languages too Let's go to the next these are the collection slides just to give you a brief overview of what the data does it collects a lot of Information from proc. Let's go to the next one It collects. This is nice because it collects the containers via C groups control groups So it is able to from the host to collect Information resource utilization metrics for containers for an of any orchestrator of any manager or container manager So it supports as a side effect is how it supports also VMs LibVirt, QMU VMs and system these services two things are missing from C groups one is the networks that are attached to each container for this thing it it queries the network stack of the of the system to find out the the the network interfaces that are attached to each container and It also has another helper that queries the Docker or Kubernetes or whatever to find out the name of the container Let's go to the next one It has an internal starts the server starts the plug-in So it is a high-speed starts the server and because my data is distributed. It is installed all over the place This means that all applications are sending stats in metrics to local host which is faster and more if follows the availability of the server let's say and because we require from the The metrics to be to have some means some meta data attached to them We support synthetic charts. So although the stats the protocol supports just a bunch of metrics Which synthetic charts will you can have patterns to have to assign the charts the the metrics in charts and applications and families, etc? Let's go to the next one so more plugins Netfilter display quality of space quality of service Enterprise hardware IPMI it runs on free BSD on Mac OS. Let's go to the next one The interesting one are near the end. So I'm trying to I'm trying to go fast. So This is a up plug-in is very very important because it process the whole process tree every second all of it Even the the it is inside the containers from the host. So Unlike all the other tools we have seen so far. This is this has a unique feature This can break down the total CPU utilization of the system To the process is running. It does this by by using also the Utilization the usage of the exit children of process. So if you have a self script that spawns hundreds of commands per second Each each command for a few milliseconds this plug-in can correctly allocate the total CPU utilization And all not only CPU all the same even this given whatever the total resource utilization of the of the of the Self script to that process. Let's go to the next one This is the Python plug-in. Okay, we collect databases. We collect web servers. We collect Q engines Many plug-ins who three are of special interest is the web log plug-in that tails Access logs web server log files or proxy log files and turn them into real-time real-time metrics HTTP check does remote HTTP and HTTP checks on local local host or remote web servers and poor checks poor check Examine's remote remote TCP connections Okay, these are these are written in Python actually, I think we have reached the limit with Python Python is not it's not so Due to its logs. It has some issues when too many things are done in parallel So we are moving almost everything to go Let's go to the next one, please Node plug-in we have all simply made it an SNMP collector there We have a bus plug-in for someone that wants to quickly do stuff with a few commands Collect metrics with a few commands and an fpq plug-in that collects letters in jitter and packet loss over remote endpoints Let's go to the next one So metric streaming each net data can run in these modes so it can be an autonomous monitoring the default installation It can be a headless collector a headless proxy when we say headless will mean that the data does not listen to an API The API does not exist. It is not there. There is not a database. There is nothing So autonomous monitoring headless collector of headless proxy store and forward proxy. So this proxy can also expose the the Metrics via the API and the master that collects everything together this allows The whole setup is the whole idea is to beat the era keys of net data this the The images on the right you can see on the top image Setup with ephemeral nodes that push all metrics to in a data master and this one Visualizes and does everything for for the ephemeral nodes and on the lower right you can see the as a top with three teams Which where two teams are responsible for a part of the network for part of the infrastructure and the third team has full visibility on everything Let's go to the next one Matrix archiving so the data can send all the metrics it collects to all these Formats to this backend databases time series databases It can send them in two formats as collected is what we normally do with all other collectors. So It does not process them. It does not interpolate them. It does not do anything on them. It just receives them collect them and send them to the time series database and the average is Where it exports the metrics through each database. So these are interpolated metrics everything is go gauze and Presentation ready with the right unit. I mean net data can also Because it collects thousands of metrics per node the typical setups about 2000s metrics per server or per container, let's say Everything is per second. So In order not to overflow this time series databases, it can lower the frequency it pushes metrics Let's go to the next one Health monitoring health monitoring is an independent thread within a data It is it is lockless. So it's actually woodstock It supports statistical algorithms and rolling windows and the likes alarm tip. It supports also alarm templates so you can say okay. I want this to happen for all my Network interfaces all my disks or all my my SQL servers or all my containers Uh, so it's a tabletized and there is a mechanism for sending notifications to all these actually a lot of You know slack and mails and web notifications and all this kind of stuff Let's go to the next one What what I didn't talk about in the then the health monitoring is that the data is comes With hundreds of alarms pre-configured. So you just install it and immediately it will say it will it will tell you if Detects any anomaly on your system Meaningful presentation as I said meaning presentation was very important because most people do not understand the metrics They don't have a clue what the metrics mean. So what we did is that out of the box You get a presentation like that. Everything is very well organized in you can see on the right on the right of the slide the the Main menu let's say let's menu of the of the of a dashboard Let's go to the next one The the the page the the dashboards in the data provides are optimized for a normal detection We have done a lot of work for that. So you can see for example that You can mark an area and once you mark it all the other charts are marked all the all the all the charts are Like one. So you do something on one chart. It happens on all charts There is no point to go one by one. Let's go to the next one You can see all this on the if you navigate it dashboard Snapshot snapshot system is a nice feature when you want to To open a ticket. For example, we had to open tickets to hosting providers or ventors Somehow and we wanted to share the metrics with them. So what the data does it allows you to save a snapshot This the snapshot is a download a download Including everything that does board includes for the visible time frame So you just pan and zoom the charts to the to the time frame you like You press a button a snapshot is saved. It's a file of your disk This can be shared to third parties attached to incident support tickets When loaded back You get exactly the same view you had when you saved it with all the data at the desired resolution and Uh This actually the snapshots are not uploaded to a server. This is just a That's a web browser feature. So the data are loaded On any net data server on the on your browser.  You say import the snapshot And it loads it even if it comes from another server. Let's go to the next one embeddable visualization embeddable visualization allows net data to integrate its visualization its charts on any party app. It's any web page actually uh, here you see Four web servers coming from all over the world to a conference page This is funny because you know, when we when we develop that On the on the company I work for we had a team the qa team that had all the errors They had correct collected all the errors that could happen for introduction They put it on a page on a conference page for a table. Let's say Then the devops guys show that page and say, okay I can add charts for all this for each of these of these errors I can add a chart And they did it. They added a sparkling charts just In the in the table Then the operations guys saw that and said, okay, look this happened should not happen This error should not happen I can talk to the banks And try to solve them suddenly they They started attaching gira tickets on that with the communication we had the with the banks So three different teams out of nowhere in a few days They managed to build a very powerful tool To examine and troubleshoot and you know scrutinize all the errors The infrastructure had it was it was very nice very I loved it. Okay, let's go to the next one. I find magical so Let's say comparison. This is what a typical setup a user run a number of nodes It needs health check automatic health checks and alarm notifications and wants to have A visual review of the performance of their systems and applications. Let's go let's go to the next one So the traditional model is that okay, you will have a number of Data collectors on each of your notes. Usually you need many Then You will have all these data collectors will have to push the metrics in real time to a time series database But because this database is a bottleneck. It needs resources. You have to cherry pick the metrics and you know Don't push them too frequently try to be gentle with that because That will be expensive at the end to do it at full resolution This database somehow either with a third party engine will send alarms Most probably you you will have to build each alarm one by one And to visualize the data you will have to learn query language and Learning visualization tool to have some dashboards But at the end this dashboards are usually too poor for real-time performance monitoring troubleshooting So yes, of course they give you an overview But most probably are not good enough for visual anomaly detection and for troubleshooting The underlying performance issues Let's go to the next one This is the simplest model the simplest form of any data. So you have your you have what you have Just installing a data on it. This is it every every node is autonomous If you want a time if you have a time series database, you can put it there You can stream your metrics you immediately you will receive health notifications and You will have real-time interactive automated dashboards that visualize every single metric And which are perfect for visual anomaly detection And of course you will not have to learn a query language for that. So no additional resources Let's go to the next one This one is set up with ephemeral nodes with ephemeral nodes, you know, you don't know the url of the server Where is the server to connect to so in this case? What we do is that we install the collector at the mastic node of kubernetes, let's say or somewhere that The ephemeral nodes with the same configuration all the ephemeral nodes can push metrics in real time The permanent node node in this case my data is self self-cleaning. So it knows if it spawns If hundreds of ephemeral nodes have been spawned to clean up after some time you define all this kind of stuff, etc Again, this is a lot a lot more cost effective you actually get real-time performance troubleshooting and visual anomaly detection for no additional cost. Let's go to the next one So the bottom line of the of the nother today is that We believe changes the economics of monitoring It uses only available resources. We never require dedicated resource from users It requires minimal human skills You just install it all the expertise and all the knowledge is embedded in it So it will guide you it will it will drive you and We have automated everything that can be automated. Of course, there is a lot more work to do In contrast with other solutions, my data has been designed for sysadmins devops and developers So it's not it's not a data scientist tool. It's not something a data scientist can query and do stuff And the idea is to to to have a tool that will improve the operations immediately. You just install it immediate results Let's go to the next one This is what we have in our on our roadmap. We need we want to improve the internal matrix database today We need two points two bytes per point. We believe we can we can go below one um We have We need a new streaming an improvement of the streaming protocol to support active active clusters today My data supports active passive passive clusters only And improve it in the cases of iot that the network is is not reliable To integrate it with service discovery tools port it to windows Have automated anomaly detection on it support annotations and many many dashboard improvements. We can build We want to build Custom dashboards editors directly on this on this on this setup. So you just point and click and nothing to be done above that Let's go to the next one So the data in the cncf ecosystem. We believe that the net data is a smarter data collector. It's a super set of most other data collectors They provide high resolution metrics. It is lightweight They are the things we said so we strongly believe that net data can be used in the it is it will be useful in the whole cncf observability ecosystem Providing real-time troubleshooting And simplifying we believe it simplifies a lot data collection Let's go to the next one Today it is gpl v3. We have created a company We have moved all our copyright ownership to this company all the contributors So today 99 of the data of net data is owned by net data inc We will collect the rest one percent and then we can change the license to apache 2.0 So that this was the presentation What we what we we want from cncf is mainly everything your service desks says everything I mean we need help in all areas to to to go through That's it Thank you We're very low on time But a couple of minutes of questions might i'll start Um You mentioned that it does ephemeral systems Have you got any examples where you're managing Being cuban any specifically and the kind of container micro service environments that epitomize cloud native Yes, the whole idea is that you're installing net data It's very simple you to install net data on the hosts of all kubernetes nodes not not in the containers at the hosts so Once you do this then Even the familiar ones Then you can have net data stream metrics With static configuration to to whatever your master is Do you want me a demo? Do you want to a demo to of this of this setup? Anyone else got a question Which it seems How many nodes to people typically monitor with net data? I mean obviously there are many nodes being monitored with net data But how many how many do people do people tend to to monitor in the hundreds and thousands or in the the the tens and hundreds Well, I can't answer that. I don't know I know that There are a lot of people that collect Actually because my data is distributed you install it or not your servers It doesn't influence the server. It is just one second one percent cpu utilization of a single core So it's ignorable. It does nothing on the server Once you do that, then When you want to you will immediately get alerts. So alerts is something you will get whatever you are With all the channels you you like But at the same time if the server gives you an alert It will give it will also send you a link to connect to that server and see what's happening What what what is happening there? The whole idea is that Net data is not it scales infinitely because we are not requiring Requiring the metrics to be centralized the metrics are kept inside the servers Of course, you can you can centralize them if you if you want longer history than I don't know 24 hours But this is not required So, uh, you can just install the data in hundreds of thousands of servers and nothing will happen No, no, no, no It will have no impact on anything Is that clear? Yep. Thank you Okay, we're out of time. Um Thank you very much Costa for the presentation and uh, thank you Matt for I just saw that you posted about the early discussion on the toc list Um, please please. I want to solicit feedback on this topic of categories scalability politics working groups It's very clear that if the cncf is to grow sustainably We need a solution to the fact that there are only nine toc members and Camille is not the only one of us who is time poor. I think we are all time poor And we need to come up with a good solution that goes beyond what we've done so far So, thank you very much everybody talk to you soon Bye. Bye. Thanks. Bye


Welcome back to Kids Fun Science. My name is Ken. Today's experiment is the toilet paper shooter. What you need for this experiment is toilet paper, course, paint roller, air blower, and some duct tape. All right. Today's experiment is we're going to have some toilet paper and we're going to show Bernoulli's principle, right? So a little windy. The idea is when we blow on top of it, it rises, right? Because the low, creating low pressure, bringing it up. So it would be really cool if I could blow on it super fast and have it shoot really far. And so we're going to do the next segment. We're going to show you how to do that. All right. So what you do is you get your air blower, right? And you take a little paint roller here and you just tape it on so it's straight over there. And then you take your toilet paper roll and you plug it on right here so it's directly over right here. So the idea is it's going to be able to shoot out and we're going to show you that right now. All right. So here we go right now from Steve Spangler and you guys should give it a try. Thanks for watching. Okay. That video seems really interesting. Oh, and um, that video too. Um, subscribe button down below and


Welcome to another episode of likeable science here on think tech Hawaii. I'm your host Ethan Allen With me today is dr. Michael I care Yeah, I've been assistant professor in the Department of Tropical Plant and Soil Sciences at UH Manila. Welcome Michael Thank you for having me And you know likeable science is all about The impacts that science has on people's lives and why people should care about science And I think what you do is just really fits that fits the theme amazingly well So in short, why don't you just give a quick elevator speech? Oh, what do you do here? Sure, um, so I work with plants and their genomes and we try and figure out how We can make plants That are gonna feed us gonna be more healthy gonna be more ecologically friendly and how we can do it on Fairly rapid times timescales and how can we can do it do it with? Climate-changing and with new pests and diseases popping up all the time Critical stuff, you know as we face a lot of challenges including growing populations and drinking amounts of farmland It's it's more important than ever to do this, but let's start out Let's let's unpack that a little bit be sure our audience understands you use the term genomics They are so genomics has something to do with the genes, right exactly exactly so We all heard about genes we remember from high school biology They there are what give us various characteristics like eye color hair color this thing These these types of things talking about plants seed color leaf color things like that But when we talk about gene genomics, we're talking about the entire genome so every single gene that that's present in an organism and What we're also talking about is where they're located what physical structures are there? What's what's next to them? How far are they away from other genes our genes sometimes inherited together that sort of thing Right plants are particularly complex right because plants have huge genomes, right? We have what? 22,000 genes roughly I have 200,000 so plants it depends on the plant they can be they can have massive genome so humans if we go just on regular genome size Humans have a genome of about you know, maybe three billion base pairs Well wheat has a genome of 16 billion base pairs you know you're talking about something five times more than five times the size of the human genome and and and when you're talking about genes you're talking about that same thing five times the Number of genes and that and that sort of thing right so this makes it more complex because you've got a century Weed through all that of those 16 million In essence that's that's exactly that's that's very true You have a lot of weird things going on genomes that are duplicated so that in essence instead of how In humans where you have one copy copy of the genes from your mother one copy from your father in plants You can have four copies or five copy or four copies six copies even eight copies of these genes Which makes it a little bit more complicated and when you're trying to expect what that and what? That inheritance pattern is going to be but we have some things that make it a lot easier to you know We can do controlled controlled mating in plants and also plants a lot of plants not all But many plants can be their own mother and father they can self-pollinate so that that what that leads us to do is we can get We can get a really good idea of what the expectation is For what inheritance is going to be and the other thing that that lets us do is we can we can completely 100% inbreed an individual so what that means is instead of having two copies or four copies or eight copies, right? You essentially have one form of that gene. That's the same Which which really makes it easier when you're trying to do an analysis, right and plus then that plant will always produce plants Exactly clones of itself exactly. Yeah. Yeah, so if you've gotten good characteristics and weather as well And has a good strong root system up with that great fruit. That's exactly all of its offspring will have those same characteristics And that's that's exactly right and and it'll it'll do that without any special manipulation like many people at home have probably Cloned a plant before you know and by cloning a plant that just you know Maybe cutting out an eye of a potato and then regenerating a whole plant from that That's that you've you've cloned that potato or maybe a sweet potato where you've cut a Piece of that stem and then started growing it at your house again. That's cloning that potato It's it which in this case is regenerating a whole plant from a cell without Without any sexual reproduction taking place, right? But now particularly in this day and age when we have Climate change we have soils getting polluted salinated We have as you say pests moving into areas that they didn't before There's more need to sort of you can't just rely on one cultivar one line Maybe Exactly a lot of the a lot of the changes we made in the food system In the last 80 years have been to really homogenize it and that's had some benefits in terms of we've great increased food production But now we're dealing with some of these unintended negative consequences of that real narrow Really limited diversity. It's that that can potentially be more susceptible to to pests and diseases And we're trying to figure out ways. How can we how can we maintain this high level these high levels of productivity without? Without having this increased risk and that's where genomics can come in right because because what you can do is now very Precisely you can you know this part of the genome is related to what makes the food taste so good this part of the genome is related to disease resistance and May and maybe and you can combine them very precisely because you have What we call genetic markers you can imagine those simply as street signs in a city and what you can do is you know the idea of Or it doesn't it can be street signs in a city or it can be different towns on a map Right. So so for example you can say well, I really like this street in Kailua I want that street to be next to Right next to UH Mano, right? We can't do that in in geography We can do that with genomics because when we know where they are we can move them, right? Yes, and and and we can use the mechanisms of plants to do that So that's what happens during sexual reproduction parts of the genome get reshuffled when you have when you use different parents It's it's a different combination and you can just look for combinations now that have the Beneficial The beneficial structure that you like right which is and again in plants This is something we can do because from a single from a single cross You can get hundreds and hundreds of seeds and because we have this ability to self-pollinate and generate and which are clones You can actually generate thousands and thousands of offspring from the exact same two parents right right and so you use the term domesticating players so I Know plants of course have evolved over time and we have certainly had a hand in that right most we most certainly have and just as we Domesticated wolves in the dogs as it were we've domesticated these wild that's exactly that the exact same process is Taking place and actually all of our food plants come from all over the world So if you could show us our first slide here this map is That are The actually the slide the map of where the food plants come from Yes, so what you're seeing here is we're seeing 64 of the most grown plants all over the world And what you're seeing with our little cartoons here is where these plants came from so if we're looking at North America here blueberries strawberry sunflower, right, but then if we're looking at if if we're looking at at At East Asia, we're seeing a completely different set of plants in terms of Where we're seeing citrus we're seeing rice. We're seeing all completely different sorts of plants and independently all across the world we've domesticated plants and now what we can do is we've moved them around just as we've Moved around the world as people and now we have these complex pallets that we really really like from all these different places Yeah, and and so what we can do now is because we know how this process has occurred We can take these favorable characteristics and say oh we want this this plant that looked like this to to To be to now we can modify a related plant or or or a wild relative to do that All right I mean for generations people have cross bred plants for desirable characteristics But what you're doing now is much it's a much more precise sophisticated and more rapid way of doing that That's exactly right so people for tens of you know for more than 10,000 years people have been been doing been doing this You cross plants you you look at all of their offspring and then you save the seed from the best one What plant breeding does is we try and systematize this so we know based Based on genetics right the idea of what we expect our ratios our segregation ratios to be We we and so what we can do is we can say we'll need to grow this many plants to find the one that we like And that's gonna and then and then what that lets us do is instead of just Looking in the field for this one looks really really good what we can do is we can say well we need this plant to We need this plant to be resistant to this disease the genetic inheritance is controlled by two genes How many plants are we gonna need to grow to make sure we have resistance? Well is that disease resistance gene? Close to orange genetics. We call that linked. Is it linked to another gene that? Will have a negative effect on safe flavor Well, then we need to do how big of a population will we need to grow? Then to find an individual who has our disease resistance, but not the gene for bad flavor Yeah, and and we can figure that out and then we know how many we have to look for and then because we have the genetic markers We have our street signs. We can we can say Well, we want we want King Street, you know to be next to Waikiki Or you know and so we can do that and find the individual who has that unique combination, right? And these days I would think with some of the new technologies. You can actually Literally do that and pull pull genes out and stick them in biological There are techniques to do that some of those Don't always end up making it faster. Okay, there are amazing tools for understanding gene function and and sometimes they those tools are what you need to do and but but some you have to Each situation calls for a different form of technology and you have to think about what type of technology is most appropriate for that situation No, no exactly exactly so Yeah, so this is what what you really be able to Look and do sort of what has been done But to do it on a bigger scale to do it multiple kinds of planets More quickly more robustly to get more of those plants out quickly and begin to put them into different environments and spread them around if you want Right, and so so one of the major things we face are These extreme climate events and so if you look at that the slide number two here What we're looking at here is a map of all the environments that that say Sunflower that sunflowers live in in across North America We know they're from North America and what we can do is say this particular sunflower species lives in this Crazy environment it could be a saltmarch. It can be a desert literally growing out of a sand dune And then we can ask the quest what we can say is I'm in this crazy environment Well, let's cross this wild relative to sunflower to make sure that sunflower now is going to be tolerant of being under water for two weeks and and You know plants are weird species boundaries don't matter so much to them, you know, and so you can have a Completely different sunflower species cross with the sunflower See the sunflowers that we grow for seeds that you needed a baseball game and some flowers perfectly happen Happy to have that happen It happens in nature and we can use that process that happens in nature to our benefit as humans Excellent We're gonna have to go to a little break here, but this is this is great stuff I'll when we come back me will get dig into some of our specific projects that your lab is working on Mikey counter here in the tropical plants and soil sciences department at UH Manoa is my guest today here on likeable science And we'll be back in one minute Hello, I'm Dave Stevens host of the cyber underground This is where we discuss everything that relates to computers.  Aloha Aloha, I'm Wendy Lo and I'm coming to you every other Tuesday at 2 o'clock live from think tech Hawaii and On our show we talk about taking your health back And what does that mean? It means mind, body and soul anything you can do that makes your body healthier and happier Is what we're going to be talking about whether it's spiritual health mental health fascia health beautiful smile health Whatever it means. Let's take healthy back. Aloha And welcome back to likeable science here on think tech Hawaii. I'm your host Ethan Allen Dr. Mikey camera is here in the studio with me We're talking about plants and genomes and domesticating plants and building better plants basically exactly and he's been explaining Sort of the general terms on how we how we do this in modern techniques that they're being used now to get a lot of better plants But his lab it's really big lab You can have a lot of people working there a lot of different projects are doing some very specific things that really like here to Direct you to Hawaii, right? Yeah So we have we have two projects that are a lot of fun. The first is Working with chili pepper So if you can show our slide here, so peppers are unbelievably diverse So we what you're seeing here is all these different shapes and colors That sizes and and and it turns out there's actually a huge variation too in how nutritious they are We're all familiar with the The difference in the heat right of our peppers from our sweet peppers to our super hot peppers that Well, you know, I like pepper and I like some heat some of those are they just kind of hurt I mean some of them, you know, they use as to make the pepper sprays even pepper sprays for elephants And the aren't my correct and thinking a lot of that that heat that we perceive is actually a It's a defense it's a defense it's a defense it's a defense mechanism I mean and one of the big defenses it's against were mammals birds actually who spread a lot of the seeds of peppers They can't they have no receptors for the heat of the capsaicin, which is what gives all the heat but one of the things we found is that we there's a huge amount of Nutritional tons of vitamin A tons of vitamin C and even a lot of folate But depending on what type of pepper you get you can have ten times the amount of Nutritive value in one variety of pepper relative to another type of pepper and so One of the things that we've been really thinking about and trying to figure out is okay. How can we? breed only amongst those peppers that have really high nutrition So that when if we release a new type of pepper for you to grow We only make crosses between those types that have high nutritional value All right, so we eat peppers that are really better for exactly and also can we eat peppers that are?  That's that's something to be really nice Yeah, so that's that's that's great and at the same time, of course you'd be looking at other characters Right, it will grow well here in Hawaii. Exactly. Well, exactly and one of the big things that we worry about are of course pests and diseases, but also building on the work of Those sunflower maps that you saw we've done similar mapping in in in pepper and are looking At across the gradient of where peppers grow. They're they're native to Mexico The tropics are same latitude as as Hawaii and what we're looking at is okay. Can we find those that are particularly? resistant to drought and then and then are those ones that are resistant to drought do they have those same? nutritional characteristics That that we that we want and also some of the same taste characteristics in terms of do we have the right heat profile? Do we have the right sugar profile so that you know, you don't get end up with something that can withstand drought But you know tastes like cardboard You know, I know they grow peppers and a lot of the US affiliated Pacific Islands And so again, you might want to look at salt tolerance for your pepper Exactly exactly and one of the things that's been pretty interesting. We've we've we've some of the Hawaiian peppers that have been here and some of the peppers that have been sourced from the Pacific Islands We we like them hotter here than a lot of people do on the mainland, so it's very it's very It's interesting to see how you have these regional preferences and what and what are Characteristics that are that that people want which is why we do breeding and why we do it at a local scale As opposed to having one type of pepper that we're going to grow across the world Sure Now this this shows the relationship of science and culture right exactly cultures like different kinds exactly Flavors of hotness right and again because everyone has this every culture has this intimate knowledge of plants They do these selections Intentionally and unintentionally by by just what what seeds do you choose to save? Which which plants become the ones that you want to keep growing year after year and even just survive in the culture and this is and Because we've seen it happen so many times throughout History in so many different cultures we everyone feels very comfortable with with this idea of you know eating and growing food Sure sure you also you got another project you you mentioned with sweet potatoes, right? Yeah, so this is this is a really cool project Where we're looking at The we're doing two different things with this project one. We're looking at The Hawaiian sweet potato the all the sweet potato that have Hawaiian names and we're asking the question How different are they from? sweet potato that are They don't have Hawaiian names because as a canoe plant were The hypothesis is that the germplasm that has retained Hawaiian names Is unique and different because it was it should be of the lineage of Those sweet potatoes that were initially brought here and it turns out based on the genetic data that we have from screening Again these genetic markers across the whole the entire genome looks like that's True the whole high the Hawaiian the plants that have retained Hawaiian names Seem to be a genetically distinct pool really compared when you compare them to samples that are found in herbaria and samples that are Found in the the the national plant germ plasm collection So sorry about the two specialized terms an herbaria is a museum for plant specimens and where you can go and we can You can sample that plant tissue and get DNA off of it. You can also Measure all the characteristics of the preserved specimen and the NPGS are Seed banks where you store either seeds or cuttings of plants so that we have a record of The living plant libraries And sweet potatoes are pretty tricky I guess there's been a lot of debate over where the origin was whether it's South American or Pacific Island And they've gone back and forth, right? So sweet potato is one of these really interesting plants the the wild Species that a sweet potato is now found in South America But the question of when did it? Leave South America how long ago was it human was it human mediated transfer was it transfer? that was By the by the plant itself through tubers, you know floating across the ocean or was it brought over by Another type of animal that's still very much alive in the Alive debate. There was a great paper that came out last year where they sequenced an herbarium specimen that had been collected by Captain Cook's expedition to Hawaii and so they were weighing in on the debate and It's I recommend you guys read the paper it was it led to a lot of Discussion in the scientific literature without a clear conclusion, which is part of the fun about it We don't know the answers. We're still it's still why up in the air and up for debate And I heard something recent the sweet potatoes themselves are really Across between two different completely really different plans. There are genetically modified organism rather nature, right? So sweet potatoes are really really crazy plant first of all. It's what happened is you had two different species Cross and then you had a genome duplication so that myosis And and sexual reproduction could work. So it's actually what we call a hexa ploid And it's actually what we call an auto aloe hexa ploid, which means It has two genomes from one parental plant and one genome from a third parental plant so that it has three genomes And it's it's it's quite complicated And then the other thing that they found in sweet potato is Sweet potato takes on genes from bacteria in the environment So so in these these back these bacteria that infected with plant disease oftentimes the plants survive But the bacteria is inserted different parts of its DNA in So it becomes a natural a naturally occurring transgenic plant. Yeah, exactly. This is it's a very cool plant Excellent excellent very excited. I'm sweet potatoes a very important food Exactly and and one of the things that's really cool because we found these genetically distinct Plants that Form the different lineages we can now start asking questions. What are the differences? What are the differences in nutritional value? What did what did? Hawaiian select for in the past was there What were what were we know historically from the from the newspapers certain things that different cultivars were used for? And now that we can see that well These are likely the ones that were being talked about in the Hawaiian language newspapers From the 19th century. Well, maybe these same practices that were used We can use for them again, and maybe maybe our farmers can get a price premium for them Yeah, exactly for instance ones you would think sweet potatoes here in Hawaii would have genes for sort of a long stable storage Right because they had to come on long ocean voyages and not Start going bad not start trying to grow right you and you would you would also think that they would What you'd also think is because You know Hawaiians were great plant breeders you I would have thought once they got here They would have selected for a lot of different things and you see these different uses again in in the in the literature, you know, some were used for For for food for very good tasting because they were very very sweet others were used as you know kind of Well, we'll say this is the one that that yields. Well is very stable You can store forever, but maybe it doesn't taste great You have other ones that were used to make to make beverages out of so you have all these different uses Some were medicinal types, right? And so so the question is now. Okay. What can we dive in and figure out? What's what what are these uses? What are the what's the genetic basis for these uses because it's quite likely that that that in this unique germplasm We probably have some unique diversity. Yeah, this is great stuff You begin to see that the real richness and what you're mining here, and this is wonderful You're doing this and wonderful you're bringing up a Cod rays of students to show learn the stuff to love it as you obviously do. Oh, yes It's a lot. I should I should you know mention the two the students working on this Elizabeth Aurora and Todd are really the ones leading the sweet potato push and they're you know, they're the ones doing all of the hard work I just get to talk about Isn't that like Well, this is this is all excellent stuff. This is very exciting to learn about your work I'm so so glad you were able to come on the show. It's a short note. Yeah. Thank you very much for that and I hope maybe we'll get you back and you can talk about more of your stuff. I love to. Oh, yeah, I'd love to so excellent so Mikey counter and Talking about genomics implants and thank you, sir. That's it's been a real pleasure. Thank you so much And I hope you'll come back and join us again next week for more episodes of likable science and I think that kawai