When we get things started by just doing kind of a roundtable here, we've got, I assume we're going to have people come in and out, and we can just do kind of a quick introduction for those who don't know who we are. And then take questions from that, unless anyone has, I don't know, like an agenda or something. I don't think we really have that. We have an agenda. Is that a thing? I don't think so. Yeah. Like, I don't actually know what we're supposed to do. Yeah, so, okay. All right, so if you've been to a flock or even a flood come back, there was always a session where you would get to talk to FESCO members and it was just sort of an open Q&A, but also an opportunity to meet them in person. This is the best we can do in these times since it's a virtual event, I guess. So yeah, that's given the time zones and constraints of everything. This is five of us who are here. Like I said a minute ago, I'm David Cantrell, D Cantrell, very original Nick on IRC. I've been working in Fedora for as long as I've been at Red Hat, so I joined in 2005 by being a Linux user and developer since the mid 90s. Many changes throughout history, many distributions have come on, many technologies have come on, and now I'm here, elected to FESCO and hopefully doing some good. So I will pass it over to Neil. All right then. So my name is Neil Gampa. I am actually kind of new to this whole FESCO thing. But I have been around the block for a while. I've been involved in Fedora for a little over 12, since 2007, I can't do math in my head right now, but I've been around since 2007 as a contributor. I've actually been a user of Fedora since it started as a project, even before that with Red Hat Linux and stuff like that. I've bounced around using Ubuntu, Gen2, and a few other distributions here and there. And these days, I'm involved in Fedora and Maja Opens and so on for FESCO stuff. I guess today I would be known as the one who has caused the most trouble this cycle, both good and bad, hopefully mostly good, but from some people's perspective, probably all bad. So, you know, the thing I do is just I try to bring a little bit of the world of Linux perspective and also try to help bring my expertise and a lot of the plumbing layer stuff to FESCO as well as a lot of the packaging and things like that. So I'll just kind of throw my virtual baton to Fabio. Okay, can anybody hear me? I'm not sure this microphone works. It works. Great. All right, I'm Fabio and my nickname is Decathorpe everywhere. And not sure anybody ever got that pun. But all right. I'm mostly involved with packaging on Fedora and I've joined FESCO the cycle before this one. So my term is going to be up soon, I think. And I'm mostly involved with some with maintaining the Pantheon desktop environment and a lot of Java packages. So, yeah. And I think I've been packaging stuff for Fedora since 2015 or something like that. I made you do get into it with Pantheon. It is my fault and I'm okay with this. Yeah, it's okay. It's not so bad. I mean Pantheon desktop was probably better than the Java stack. Yeah, it's definitely less trouble except when the GNOME guys are not helpful. Yeah, well, yeah. Well, I think that's it for me. Who should I pass the baton to? Well, you could throw it up to Kevin or throw it to the right to Clement. Okay, Kevin, your turn. Okay, I hope everyone can hear me. My mic is being flaky and low, but I'll try and shout. I'm Kevin Finzi, Narek on IRC. I've been involved in Fedora since 2005, I think it was when I started taking over the IRC or the XFC packages from Fedora Extras. So long, long time ago I've been on Fesco for ages. I try and, you know, keep the historical perspective around and help folks where I can and yeah. I've been really, really, really, really busy with the data center move lately and things have been flaky and infrastructure. So I've been trying to calm that down, but hopefully we'll get to a nice place here very soon and we can actually start getting more stuff done. So that's my hope. So I will pass the baton up to Clement. Catching it. Thanks everyone. So I'm Tremo Verna, Siviana on IRC. I've been involved in Fedora for four years, maybe almost five years, I think, end of this year. And I've been mostly involved in the Fedora infrastructure, so I've been on the CPE team. And recently I'm going to help a little bit more on the Fedora Corvallis side of things also. And this is my first time in Fesco, so I've been elected just for this cycle. So I'm very new here. Yeah, and I have like my son, Timo T, so he's taking part of the team also. Okay, I've been watching the questions in the chat here and let's see the first one that when we started doing the round table was they wanted Neil to explain your IRC NICS and how many you have and why you have so many. Oh, you're muted. It started with me having only one IRC NIC, I had Conan, which is the name I typically use everywhere. And I used to do this from a machine that I had rented from a friend that ran Fedora server on it and I had IRC running on it and I would just be in there for all the time. In 2015 that server finally died, like the hard drive just straight up failed and it was not recoverable. And so I lost everything for that. At the same time, I moved from where I used to live in Mississippi to Connecticut, and then I lost access to a stable computer. And so consequently, I was always juggling around different devices but I needed some kind of way to persistently keep track of conversations. But I didn't have a stable internet connection anywhere so I couldn't run a bouncer. So what wound up happening was that at work I wound up having a computer that was always running and I had a connection in there and that was set up with a with an account that's Farrow attempt. And then on my laptop for a while I use Sun Goku on my IRC client there. And that was my MacBook. And then my phone use Sir Gallantmon for a while. And then Kingi Nyasha is my desktop here. And then over and then I switched to matrix a little while ago so I retired using Sun Goku so much and I went to eighth doctor which is my matrix client. And actually, now you kind of get this this is like all these different points to interact with IRC is because I IRC doesn't let me have one persistent thing that I can rotate the same identity across computers. However, I've been generally happy with matrix. And if I decide to go into setting up my own matrix home server. I would probably reconsolidate everything again and go back to just using Conan Cuda everywhere. But that's sort of the story why I have so many nicks. Also, yeah, and in some cases I wind up having an alternate Nick because some networks, literally don't let me use my preferred one. Like in, for example, in for a long time in OFTC Farrow attempt was actually reserved by somebody else. And a couple of other networks had some of my other preferred nicks registered already so I wound up having used different names there. But yeah so that that's kind of the story behind is like for a year and a half I lived as a nomad it didn't have a persistent connection and didn't have money to have a persistent somewhere. So I wound up having to have multiple connections into IRC, so that I could have, you know, the, at least the perception of being always available in some form or fashion. And it's sort of stuck. I'm hoping that eventually, as things get a little bit better I still have to do like very expensive housework that and once that's all done, maybe finally start fixing this and going back to having one Nick again because like matrix has actually worked out pretty well. It has a lot of the advantages of having a bouncer, while also giving me an actually decent experience across, across jumping clients, because the one of the disadvantages I found with having a bouncer when I used to do that was going to different computers to actually manually fetch the logs rather than it just being there for me to see so I can keep track of my communications so we'll see how that goes. Maybe I won't be known as the guy with six plus nicks eventually. We'll see. But that that's the story behind it and that's, you know, and I think I have a list of them, my, my list of them exists on ironically my launchpad account, but once fastest replaced with the new account system. They will also be there because they've added the ability to store multiple nicks into fast so now that they will all work. So yeah, that's the story. All right, yeah, that is, that is definitely quite the IRC history. Let's see. As you were explaining that mostly it's people commenting on on your IRC nicks. I'm looking back to anyone see any questions. Do we have any questions. It seems like one's just placing bets on which Nick I will actually that whether or not I'll wind up with multiple nicks even with matrix. I think the current situation but we'll see. I'd like to actually consolidate that because having multiple nicks and having multiple locations has some really huge pitfalls. Like I don't have, I cannot maintain a coherent state of what I'm talking to. It's, it's pretty hard to keep track of everything. And this pandemic has made it worse. Some of my workstation in the office is just randomly going off and on because of power outages and stuff like that and so that's not fun. So, I would definitely like to fix this at some point. And yes, I'm on team having a fedora project make tricks home server I would definitely love for us to have one because that would be that it would just be very cool I think it's it's going to wind up being the future of of communications at least in the open source realm, if not everywhere Okay, here we go. What are some of the projects or goals fesco has for fedora moving forward past fedora 33 in front or other projects. Well, okay, I guess we can all probably say something about this. We all know that the number of change proposals approved right now has hit a record. And they're not all insignificant changes these are, these are quite involved changes that are going in. Some have far reaching impact, probably, you know, every user in some capacity and then others are for specific interest groups but I think that what we're going to see is a lot of attention that we have to revisit a lot of these to work out more of the details for implementation and integration into fedora and that's that's kind of what we do. So, I, you know, having done this for for quite a long time and it's sort of the, the up and down cycle of, you know, introduce new new features and then go through a period of stabilization and sort of almost like reflection on okay what are we doing how do we want to, you know, tweak it and tune it and stuff like that. So I think that that probably is what we need to focus on after this. After these changes go in, hopefully we can hopefully we'll have resources focused on that but it's also hard to say we may see a brand new technology show up that we really want to integrate into fedora and that you know kind of stretches to that again. I don't know. But I guess my thing is I would like to see us focus on stability of what we're integrating now what we've decided that we're doing now for f 33 and beyond. Anyone want to add to that. Sure, I can I can add a little bit to this because I think as the one who is the two, I think arguably most disruptive changes to for this cycle. That is definitely out well has more probably more quote unquote disruptive is the editor change which is not that significant but whatever. But like the two actually significant changes. I think what we're looking at here is like, I looked back over the past five years of the door releases. And I think what what winds up happening is that I think we're starting to hit this cadence where every five years end up having this huge boost of like really big dramatic, you know, things that we want to do and then we refine those over the course of the next five years releases like fedora 21 was the beginning of fedora next and or fedora next or whatever you want to call it. We did the focusing the additions and all that stuff and that was 62 changes by the way, that was that that was the high mark until fedora 33 and over the course of releases from fedora 21 to now, while we haven't necessarily had so many changes, a lot of them have built on that innovation that happened in 21. And what I see what we're doing right now is we're laying the foundations to iteratively develop and improve and stabilize and and make these technologies mature for the next five years, or the next 10 years, the next 15 years, like a lot of people see us with the perspective of fedora brings those features first, and bring that innovation to the to the wider ecosystem. And sometimes that means that there's just a lot of stuff happening and sometimes, and sometimes the schedules happen to align in such a way where they just all happen at once. And that necessarily means an unstable release it actually shows that, from my perspective it shows that there's a lot of people interested in making fedora the best it could be. And that actually I think is a very heartwarming sentiment and really is a testament to how successful our community is that people want to do this sort of thing. And we'll see like as we go forward. I think we'll at least like in my personal roadmap. Yes, I did this big change, but I have plans about how to iterate and build on it and make it better that are not quite so like huge or earth shattering levels of change but we'll see like I want to build upon what I imagine many people who have made these very big changes are in the same boat they're trying to build this foundation to do something better and build upon it because that's all we do like we we make these changes because we have a vision of like how we want to move the Linux platform forward and this is this is how we do it. So I'm actually very excited and I'm, and I think that if we hit this like five year mark basically every five years we wind up having a relatively big release, which has a lot of foundational technology that then gets iterated on and built upon I think that's not bad I think that's actually that shows that people are doing it thoughtfully. Like if we were having every single release, we were having massive breaking changes, and then nobody was like reflecting on incrementally building fun I think we'd be in big trouble. So, so I think we're doing okay. And I'll toss it to Fabio let's see what he thinks about it. Well, I've been mostly thinking about how to how the changes we're integrating with Fedora 33 are a bit more do have the potential for breaking a bit more things than usual I think. So, I've not really been thinking about what to do for 3435 and so on. But right now I'm just just a bit relieved that things don't have haven't been blowing up. For Fedora 33 yet. Maybe except for for me seems like stuff. Well, I've been helping out by by fixing a few dozen packages in there. So, yeah, and it's a lot. Igor and I did like 51020 or so. And I think the tally was like, almost 1500. So we got a third of the way through before mastery build. And so like that was, by the way, if you think that it's easy to change two lines in every spec file. No people do those two lines differently in every spec file. And so I have to build and test every single one of those locally. And that makes it very slow. It makes me wish I had a coji to do all this stuff in. Yeah, and I'm kind of surprised that switching to Java 11 from Java 8 didn't break more stuff. Which actually worked out quite well. I think there is one remaining problem with free IPA where one Java component isn't working right. But the same version in Debian works correctly. So we're not quite sure where the problem is. Yeah, but I think that's that's been worked on. So Java 11 is looking great. Matt Booth has been working on integrating back into main repo from the models again. So that's looking great. And yeah, there's a lot of stuff that are still being worked on. Anybody want to jump in? Yeah, actually, so I wanted to add on to what David and Neil said about this cycle of, you know, bunch of stuff landing, stabilize, whatever. And I think Neil's right that it's been like a five year cycle, but I think it's getting shorter. I think we're going to have to adapt to a shorter cycle and we're going to have to do that by, you know, CI, automate stuff, make things easier, you know, just do a lot of stuff so that our pace can increase without sacrificing that quality or that that stability. And I think that's going to be a big challenge for the next, you know, two or three or four years that we can get that going. I'm also really excited about the Lenovo stuff. I'm interested to see how that's going to affect our community. Are we going to see an influx of users? Are we going to see an influx of contributors now or both? I hope I'm hopeful and I'm really interested to see what happens from that. Very exciting. I think that's the biggest development in Linux in the past decade, like that we're now like, I mean, 10 years ago, there was the triple EPCs with the network remix and stuff like that. And that didn't last very long because Microsoft killed that with a stone fist. But you know, this time around, we have some very real cancer success. We have a relatively mature Linux desktop. And maybe my personal hope for that is that maybe more people will start focusing on our paper cuts.  And like, that's where I want to see us grow. It's very, it's very obvious. And I think everyone knows that. But it's just a matter of time and, you know, effort to get those things. And sometimes they're hard. Yeah, a little paper cut that's like, Oh, I'll just fix this in this afternoon. And, you know, eight hours later, you're looking at something completely different, but it's related to the thing you need to fix. I'll tell you right now, that's pretty much I wound up on finally pushing myself over to do the butter if s change, like the impetus was, we have this space contention issue, and I need to figure out a way to fix. How are we going to do like certain quality of life improvements for preloaded laptops. And every other strategy I could think of just could not be made to work. I've really tried. And I've looked at what other vendors have done and they suck. Like if you look at what System 76 does, your first experience is you have to reinstall your computer, like straight up. The welcome the getting started with your computer literally reinstalls your computer. You do not have a working environment to start from and then customize. So that is an experience I want to avoid. I want to make it as smooth or smoother than what people have on Mac OS and windows. That is my personal goal with these sorts of things. And I think that's I think where we're going to start seeing more people do that with the Lenovo laptop stuff. Do you have anything to say? I don't have much to add. I think one thing that maybe is with the idea to go in faster and being able to make those big changes more often is all our tooling and experience for packages. I think there is a lot of work there that would be cool to look at how we can tackle that. Yeah, we do have a lot of talk around. I mean, Kevin was just mentioning it with CI and all of the efforts around that. And I think that that ties in very closely to just making it easier for us to keep Fedora updated and time more closely with upstream. So things that are interesting to me, which I mentioned in my questionnaire when I first ran for Fesco is the stuff that I am interested in is how do we make it easier for package maintainers and developers to have their projects built and integrated into Fedora. What are the sticking points right now that we can make easier? And we have a lot of efforts underway with that right now. And every little thing that we can think about as a project, like before this, I was in the RPM AutoSpec talk, which is really interesting.  But all of those little things added up will help us as a distribution and as a project just move faster and also have more reliable builds and reliable output. Like tested output. The CI efforts help us with that quite a bit. I know we recently had some issues with tool chain problems. Neil, you had mentioned why don't we use side tags for that. So that's like another thing. We should categorize certain aspects of the project. These things are more important because they directly impact other things, whereas a new build of nano might not necessarily impact everyone. And, you know, so not everything is created equal, but we need the right tools to do this kind of stuff. So I think we're going to have a lot of that happen more so throughout this sort of stabilization period. And I think I've talked over some questions. Let's see. Let's see. So Mike Rochefort asks, relationship between Red Hat and Fesco has been over the past few years. And how do you expect the relationship to progress over the coming years? I feel like this is a question I really can't answer because Yeah, I think maybe maybe we should have everyone's take individually here. Because yes, I think it's going to be different a different view from everyone. So the light for me, you know, I'm employed by Red Hat my manager has told me numerous times.  And this is a fedora thing. So fedora first upstream first. So I can say with confidence that my role in Fesco is purely because I want to do it and my interest is to make fedora better. Fortunately, the tie with with Red Hat allows me to do that as part of my day job. I don't I know that not all of us have that ability to to the same extent, but I, I feel that Red Hat has over the years deferred more to Fesco decisions for what, you know, upstream engineering direction looks like for the project. And I have not seen anything come in where Red Hat will say, Oh, Fesco, we don't really agree with this decision you made. It's more they recognize it and then they understand that they have to start planning for something different in rel if they are if they need to be different if it didn't, you know, a change went in that they don't want in rel for instance. So I, I think we'll continue to see, you know, the support for what we do from Red Hat but they don't, they're not from my point of view they're not looking to take over and sort of drive things if that is a concern anyone has. And that's my view so over to we're doing the same order here I'm going to the next person in my view here which is Neil. So my perspective is a little interesting here because I don't work for that contrary to what so many people seem to think it's frighteningly bizarre how many people think I work for that I really don't. I don't work for red hat I don't work for Suza. I don't work for canonical. So like, at least not right now at least I don't think I do. But anyway, my perspective on this is that I think, generally speaking, relationship the relationship between red hat engineering and fesco is positive but weak. So, the, the general communication between red hat enterprise Linux engineering and fedora is extremely weak. It's pretty difficult if I wanted to solicit information, feedback or advice, or I just wanted to like get, you know, some sense of how they felt about these things. It's actually pretty difficult without some back channeling which I don't like doing. I'm good at it at this point but like I don't want to I'd like that stuff to be in the open. In general red hat supports what fedora does and with some very, very minor exceptions. They actually are supportive of the changes that we make. Like they, they recognize that we're making these changes to benefit the community to benefit the fedora project and they also use it as an opportunity to take stock of what decisions they're making and start like do they need to reevaluate their own choices in life. You know, like it happens like an example that I will probably call it to like my mother has changed. I did actually talk to like I did have some conversations with people at red hat about it before I proposed it. I've had conversations about it actually for about a year before I proposed it. I've had conversations with a number of other people with all the different spins. I've had conversations with the upstream projects. Like there was a lot of work that went up front before I actually proposed it. In general, this what this proposal has done is it sparked an interesting conversation about people's expectations about how storage should work and how it should service the overall computing experience, which I think is actually a good example of no matter what technology you use. And this is something that I think everyone cares about. They, these changes and these sorts of things help bring those conversations forward to make people think about it. And, you know, what I've been particularly happy about is that my employer data. Actually, the reason I ran for fescos was they said they were supportive of me represent working in fedora representing fedora's and also, you know, being involved in the project because like I didn't want to do this without, you know, being able to figure out if I could squeeze time for it. My manager, his manager and his boss were all very supportive of me doing this. And like I actually want to see that kind of attitude spread and it's nice to hear that from David that that's basically the same experience he's had within red hat, which, to be fair, I expected that because like this is red hat and I expected to be super cool about working in fedora. But like, it's still nice to reaffirm that. And it's also nice that like where I work at Datto, they're the same. If you're working in an open source project, and it's an open source project that can help you and help the community and help, you know, and help Datto in some way, like they're happy to let me do this sort of thing and that's the way that it's been that's been going. And I'm very, and I think that there we have, while we could go downwards, I really don't think the relationship is going to get any worse between red hat and fedora. I think if anything, it's only going to get better as as we do this and this mixture for fesco this time where it's like, I think almost evenly split between red headers and non red headers makes it, I think a much more interesting dynamic where I think this becomes much more obvious that red hat is supportive of the fedora community, and not trying to do something like strong arming it into doing what it wants. Because, because you know it's essentially, we all have to talk to each other we all have to work with each other we have to compromise and come to come to a consensus. And they're, and they're happy with that process because they know that it helps makes the best solutions that they can even take later to productize if they so choose. So, I think the relationship with red hat and fedora is fantastic. Could it's a little bit on the communications week, but like overall I think it's generally very good. Communication is hard. Ah, yes. Don't I know that. I'll go next, but yeah, I think the same as David, I'm employed by that. So I was surveying you in Fesco, so maybe I haven't been invited to the secret, let's call it all everything in fedora meeting yet. But no, yeah, it's, you know, the way we just like the fact that to be in Fesco or just part of the fedora community is not, is not really something that your manager would would ask you to to do things specifically in the interest of red hat. So obviously red hat has some objectives and some ideas behind it, but it's much more vision and like where they would like the community to go. And if you make this more than like a specific change or you have to block the speed or you have to do what I speak. So that's, I don't know, I don't have like a gun on my head or anything when I want to change this. That's it for me. I don't know if anyone else wants to go home. Yeah, I've got a few things to add. I agree with the with David and come on. But I will add that red hat actually has a clause in their code of business ethics that all employees agree to and that the company agrees. This is the relationship between the company and employees that says if you're working for an open source. If you're working on an open source project, you do not have to consider the interests of red hat above that project and in fact you can do the opposite. It's perfectly acceptable to the code of business ethics, which is great. I think that's one of the most awesome things that any place I've worked says you can go against the interests of the company. And it's for an open source project. That's the way it is, you know, that's good. I agree that the communication is light between red hat or at least officially and and fesco and I think it's always been that way because red hat doesn't want to start like directing things. They don't want to have like if red hat had say a representative that went to fesco and said, here's what red hat thinks. Here's what you should do. And then I think there would be a lot of a strange pressure there. And I think red hat is very cognizant of that and don't they don't want to do that they don't want to influence the project. The upstream project for doing this case. You know, directly, because that's just that's going to result in in West diversity it's going to result in strange consequences and they just don't even want to go there so I think that the communication is light, but for a reason. I didn't think of it that way. I didn't think of it that way. That's a pretty good perspective for in fact there have been times when I really wished it was stronger, like in the past we've had things where we're, we're confused we don't know which which is the right path and I'm like, Well, we have all these smart people and right now we can go ask them but then they're not going to really say because they don't want to influence our decision so you know it's a kind of a double edged sword there. And I'll throw in a story at the end in all the time I've been in Fesco which is since it's been around. I've had one incident where somebody mailed myself and several other Fesco members and said, I would be really great if you decided this for this thing. And before I could even reply to it, my boss replied to that and said this is completely inappropriate. All of you do not answer this person I'm going to talk to their management. Done. And so I mean they take very seriously that you shouldn't be influencing people behind the scenes or through a company relationship like that and I think that's great. Actually fantastic. I've never I didn't really think of it that way. Again, this shows that I'm the outsider I have no idea how this could be perceived and like that that makes a ton of sense to me so I mean, I think the only thing that I I kind of from a communications perspective I think that when sometimes when red hat proposals come in for changes and stuff like the storage instantiation Damon change that came into F 33. I was super confused for what the point of the thing was, because it's not used by anything it was a system wide change, and you weren't they weren't even proposing enabling it and it doesn't do anything. And I felt like, I mean yes I can approve it because you're just literally adding a package of doing nothing. But like, what was, what is the point of this what are you trying to do with this what's your vision. I think that's the part I tend to feel like is missing a lot from a lot of change proposals like if you look at my butterfly change there's there's actually a fairly a concrete vision laid out in there, and a lot of good change proposals include this information. In the benefit to fedora there's a somewhat of a visionary statement involved in there. And I feel like that's one of those things that I feel like I'm missing from a lot of a lot of change proposals from red hat or otherwise but like the storage instantiation Damon was particularly egregious because I had no idea what the point of it was. And so like, that's the kind of stuff that can help us factor into like our own community decision process. So, like just understanding the bigger picture, I think helps a lot. I feel like I miss most of time when it comes to red hat employees who make change proposals, or even other people it's not specifically red hat but like, I see it a lot more with the with proposals of bigger changes by red hat employees. I think because they expect that everyone kind of already knows and we don't. And so, yeah, I had employees who are maintaining or doing something for their job, and they're not interested in the community for whatever reason they don't have time or they're, they're just want to focus on their work. And they're sort of trying to get things upstream but it's kind of a secondary goal to their goal of, you know, and I think that happens with other people to from other companies, you know, Oh, get this in fedora all right I'll get it in fedora. That's a check mark, not a, you know, I'm wanting to maintain this thing and see it do better. And, you know, that's just everybody has their own level of participation there. Yeah. Things could be better coming from red hat employees a lot of that is leading up to what will eventually branch from fedora to become the basis for a new major rel version, and some teams at red hat are better participants in fedora than others and when you see changes like that that don't really make sense like that storage daemon one. For me, like having having been involved with this for a while I, I sort of read it I was like, Oh, this looks like groundwork for something that that red hat wants to explore with Well, I don't really know the details of what that would be, but they know that if they want it in rel they should work to get it into fedora so that's why they're doing the change proposal. And so, Ben made the comment in the chat that, you know, while we're not held to, you know, rel's every need and we don't have to think about that with our decisions. We do need to remember that rel is sort of a downstream consumer of fedora and provides us with a lot of user types that we don't necessarily see every day. So, I think that's the only thing in the back of my head for that. I don't really know how to improve that interaction with with red hat employees doing change proposals that are kind of weak. I don't, I don't really know how to approach that and how to how to improve it but maybe we can as a project. And I see, let's see. We made it to about 1145 my time before we got a modularity question so that was pretty good. I'm happy with that, but people. Do we want to do we want to take it or do we want to take it pretend like we didn't see it. Oh, I'm going to take it. It's more fun this way. But yeah, when it comes to influence and vision to red hat proposals and requests. I don't want to say directive come, such as the recent one for modularity come down from saying this is what we'd like you figure out the details. Okay, so I think this is a little bit unfair. It's a little bit perorative of how this is being described. There's, there's a lot of the modularity proposal currently that's floating right now that that is trying to be worked on is essentially was a last minute request by one of the fesco members to produce a generic policy. So that the enterprise Linux next project eln could start doing default module streams because he essentially wanted to make it so that whatever policies implemented is essentially usable in fedora as well, which I think we all felt was fair. Because we do eventually want to see that technology stack succeed in some way, like resolving the, the some of the problems and making it usable for the use cases where it can really help make the platform better is definitely something that we all want to see. The way that it, it seems to be is that there's a little bit of tension and frustration. I mean as an outsider, like I tend to have these conversations with these people talking to them trying to shepherd these things through into the right path and the happy paths. There seems to be tension and and and a little bit of frustration, but they also have a genuine desire to try to make this the best possible thing for the community at large. The people that worked on the modularity technology stack know they screwed up with the way that they brought it into fedora the first time. And they are trying very hard and very earnestly to fix that as they can, keeping in mind their, the limitations that they have today. And I know that at least I've had conversations with them about how do we strategize to pull away from this from some of these broken paths into making this a much more successful part of our ecosystem and also keeping in mind that I now have personal and professional experiences where modularity has been extremely helpful to me in the way that it that it works that I do want it to succeed and I want it to be there. And it's it's hard. These are these big fundamental things we're like, we're essentially changing the world in a very big way. And changing the way you think about this and the way that you want to do this is very, very hard and getting there is even more difficult. Like so, I think it's just going to be one of those long hard paths to get there. But I'm optimistic that things will in fact get better. And yes, it is much better than software collections. I just software collections hurt. They are very painful. I don't have anything else to add on what you said, Neil. It is a difficult thing to deal with. But I think overall we we do want to see some success without reintroducing things that cause major problems for all users and it's just it's a tedious process. Because it's a it's a tough puzzle to work through, I think. Anyone else have anything to add on modularity. No. Okay. So I see those fesco steer raw hide as much as release. Are there different criteria for raw hide changes to be accepted. Well, not not really. I so raw hide is sort of anything goes with some exceptions. It's evolved over the years. The general expectation is, if you're going to introduce a large change impacts a wide range of users or packages, you should do a change proposal. It's going to land in raw hide first. And then we stabilize there and then release from that. I don't know if anyone wants to add any clarification to that but that I don't view it as like a separate process at all. I don't. I don't think we ever have really but I think I don't know if I've ever sexualized raw hide is something intrinsically separate from fedora releases. Like, it is a rolling release, but it is also the release will be right. So, yeah, so like from from that perspective I think fesco. I think fesco always considers raw hide but we always consider raw hide in the context of a fedora release. So for us they're one in the same. So, yeah, that's a good point from Ben in the chat by the time of release branches it's too late. So, whatever the current release is raw hide is building up to become that next one. So the change proposal processes for what that next release will be that's the cycle that we're in. Hey, Neil, you know, like more than the 0% I know about open Suza but maybe there's maybe some people view like see open Suza leap or tumbleweed as being like distinct things we don't really do that with raw hide. The ongoing thing. Yeah, for in the open Suza world. They don't have a normal stable release anymore. So the way that they do it is everything goes into what it's opens as a factory they're equivalent of our raw hide tree and factory runs through automated testing. And when it validates on that testing, it is snapshot it and pushed out as a tumbleweed snapshot release so open Suza tumbleweed is a stabilized validated snapshot of factory. And then every four years on the dot three and a half really but every four years on the dot open Suza tumbleweed is then branched to become Suza Linux enterprise and Suza Linux enterprise is developed in the open with the community. And then once that is stabilized and released that becomes open Suza leap and Suza Linux enterprise with package hub. And that is like that that model means that you have to consider open Suza leap and open Suza tumbleweed as fundamentally separate things and they do wind up having slightly different policies, slightly different way of handling things. So it doesn't map to how Fedora does this and so that's. So from the Fedora perspective, a branch is just a Fedora releases just a snapshot of raw hide. That's all it really is. And so from our perspective, we look at what raw hide is going to be to kind of project what a release will be for users, and we try to make a decision based on that. So from us it's all one in the same. So it doesn't directly compare to how the Suza world does it. But I can see how people might mix the two in. Yeah, there's a lot of changes that happen in raw hide that do not go through the change proposal process if that was required for everything none of us would ever get anything done. That's why we have like the process to become a package maintainer we trust that overall you know what you're doing and what your responsibilities are. So when you hear a Fedora developer talking about I got that change in a raw hide or something like that. That's just, you know, sort of the nature of ongoing development and not something that needed to be formalized as a change proposal. Trying to read. Have there any more questions from people. Just a few sentences. I want to add to what David said. Yes, I mean, for, for most small changes in packages that packages do in their day to day work and their day to day contributions. There's an update policy for that. Most people don't seem to know that but there's actually an update policy. And it clearly states what updates you can do safely in raw height which updates you can do safely in stable releases and in branch releases. For example, it tells you that you shouldn't do so nine bumps and stable releases and stuff like that. Just the basic principles of making sure that you don't blow things up by pushing broken things somewhere. So it's following the update policy for small changes is usually the way to go and the bigger changes. There's the change proposals. Like to add a comment to what you just said that that's very good to update policy. So name changes, things like that. When that does happen in raw hide and catches people by surprise. I want to remind everyone to not assume that package maintainers were doing anything deliberately. Oftentimes it's a surprise to them as well as you because something may have changed in the upstream project that they did not catch while they were doing updates while they were checking things. And so please, please don't assume that people were doing things deliberately to bypass these processes that we have many projects undergo a lot of changes and package maintainers do a fantastic job. Staying on top of that restructuring of code bases build systems things like that. So I mentioned that because I see mailing list comments where some people, you know, they're kind of frustrated and then, you know, they're, you know, that's it's very easy to fall into that trap that that assuming people are trying to go around the policies and rules. What are fesco peeps up to these days non fedora related one of there's something outside of fedora. Well, not a whole lot, given there's a pandemic we don't, we don't have a lot of things that we can do around here most things are closed but I will say that I had a for me I had some new antennas installed on my roof. And the summer I bought a bicycle. It's been over 15 years since I've ridden a bicycle so trying to do that again.  I mostly am actually getting back to playing more video games and stuff because like I have a huge backlog of video games that I have been wanting to play for a while and I haven't had any time to. And like I'm really using my Nintendo switch a lot more and like I've been playing. I just got super pepper Mario the origami king and I'm having a lot of fun playing that. And, you know, I think it's mostly that I'm trying to relearn how to relax because I haven't done that in a while. And that has actually turned out to be surprisingly difficult. Learning how to relax is very hard. Yeah, I'll just jump in with a few sentences. Well, I've spent most of my time in July and sometime in August by fixing Java packages and fixing CMake changes. The university has been total chaos this semester, so I didn't have much to do for that. And I'm hoping that it'll be better in autumn. And yeah, I've been cycling too. So that's been nice. I'll go next.  That's the joy of having small ones. So yeah, going out with the family, enjoying the kids. But yeah, so I don't have exactly the same surrounding as Kevin, but I have like mountains that's pretty fast. That's a good way to relax. That's my way to get away and get far from the screen and keep going. It's been this sort of pandemic thing going around. So we just moved to this very lovely house in Oregon about a year ago. And there's a ton of landscaping and outdoor things that we have backlog work on. And of course, reading books and watching shows and all the things that other folks do. Yeah, it's kind of hard. It's kind of interesting since I spend most of my time at home anyway. The pandemic hasn't really affected me that way, but it has affected me in other ways. I mean, just interacting with people you can see everybody is more tired and, you know, frazzled and impatient. You know, it's difficult in these times, but you know, everybody should try and relax and where they can to be refreshed and not burn out. Okay, I don't know how long this session runs. My assumption was an hour. It runs as long as we're still in here. Oh, really? Oh, okay. Technically it's over, but it doesn't quit until we all leave. Okay. Technically lightning talks have started two minutes ago. Okay. Stephen is telling us to go away now. Okay, well, thanks everyone. Thank you for the questions. You know how to find us on IRC and email. Enjoy the rest of Nest with Fedora.


All right, so if you heard me talk about mind machines before a mind machine is a device that can let you Experience a deep level of meditation Without having to spend a long amount of time to get to that state now those of you who know how meditation works Like I meditate fairly often But you know, sometimes I just don't want to spend that half an hour or 60 minutes or more to get into that deep Meditative state of relaxation, you know, maybe I've got things to do Maybe I'm busy or late or something. So a mind machine is a really good way of still getting those benefits and that result Without spending nearly as much time doing it. So they're essentially time savers But they can also help you if you already know how to meditate They can really help you go deeper and get into that sort of much deeper level of relaxation and meditation That you would normally it would normally take years to get to this level one such my machine is the David Delight Pro Now I've reviewed a lot of mind machines from mind place and they are really good And I actually managed to get you guys an exclusive discount For any mind machines that you want to that you want to get from mind place the links are in the description But the code is htl10 on anything on mind place.com. Anyway, the David Delight Pro is an alternative to mind place It's like a different type of mind machine that you can use. It uses a combination of binaural beats Isochronic tones Monural tones and various other auditory stimulation and various other auditory stimuli as well It's quite an effective device and it does look really good Again, if you don't know what a mind machine is or you don't understand how they work Go and check out one of the videos I made on my youtube channel Explaining mind machines and maybe watch a couple of other reviews that I've done But essentially it's just a way of Changing your brainwave state and altering your state of consciousness to something that you want Whether that's a state of focus or state of relaxation Getting ready to dream or something like that There are so many different brainwave states that you might want to try so I couldn't really tell you which one To do because I don't know which one you would like to use but there's loads of them So much like the casino and the prosion devices you have what's known as sessions in the David Delight Pro Mind machine you have a list of sessions which are essentially like an audio track But also remember the audio track is mixed with the visual track or the schedule I guess you could say so it's not just an it's not just a piece of music or audio It's actually a combination of the audio and the visual stimuli that you're going to get from the glasses or the They're sometimes known as Gans frames. So in the David Delight Pro package itself You will get things Included such as the omni-screen glasses. You'll get headphones Adapter carry case a battery carry case for the eye set 25 sessions now That is a lot less than the casino. I know that for a fact It's also less than the prosion, but the price is fairly good as well. So you're getting a cheaper package But you obviously lose out on some of the sessions because it's cheap So it's worth considering whether you want to use use this long term if to be honest I would still I would still suggest getting the casino But the David Delight is a really good option for those of you who just want something different or you don't like the look of the Casino, maybe this is something that you might want to get all I would say just consider that You know, it doesn't have as many sessions So you're gonna still you're not gonna have as many options as you would on the casino or the prosion that being said It's still a really great device I would highly encourage you to go and check it out at least have a look You know read the testimonials read what people are saying and then you can make a better comparison between this and the Casino or the prosion Again, there'll be links to all of these in the description My mind machine of choice at the moment is the casino But the prosion is coming in as a close second and this would probably be a third option This will be that one of my top three is the David Delight pro So if you do want to learn more about the David Delight pro, please go and click the links in the description Let me know what you think about mind machines and I'll see you next time Thanks for watching guys this video and this channel was supported by my patreon followers Please consider giving just a dollar a month to support this channel or just click the links in the description You'll find links to various lucid ring of products articles techniques and tutorials if you did enjoy this video Please click the notification bell and subscribe and I'll see you next time Why are you still watching that you should have clicked one of my related videos by now right or subscribed or gone onto my website or something like that


This week on MTV News Unfiltered, how to be a better ally to people with disabilities, a Beyonce and Ed Sheeran the personification of gender double standards, and we find out everyone's guilty listening secrets with the release of Spotify rat playlists. You don't just have to have paralyzed legs to be able to use a wheelchair, but unfortunately that is the prejudice that I've encountered. International Day for People with Disabilities is about raising awareness for the rights and wellbeing of those with disabilities. As the United Nations Association USA tweets, the UN estimates over one-seventh the people live with some form of disability that makes people with disabilities the world's largest minority. It's important to be a good ally to those living with disabilities every day. Here's some advice on how. I think one of the ways in which we all could be better allies towards disabled people is, number one, knowing that same people are just as valid as able-bodied people, but number two, actively trying to break down those barriers that stop disabled people from living their best life, because disability or not, we're all just trying to live the best life that we can lead. Best way that you can be an ally to people with disabilities is to remember that not every disability is the same. Take me for example. I'm severely psych-impaired and I work with a guide dog, but when people first meet me, they often presume that I am completely blind, when in actual fact I've still got some remaining vision. Be aware that people might use a mobility aid like a wheelchair for a variety of reasons, whether it be excessive weakness or fatigue or pain.  It's really awkward and I'm just trying to get about my day. Disabilities are extremely varied and therefore so are the ways you can be considerate of them. Making an effort to be an ally on an international day for people with disabilities and every single other day after that. This photo is BVVVV representative of what we expect from men and women at the top of their game, isn't it? This tweet from Danielle about Beyoncé and Ed Sheeran's respective outfits at Global Citizen Festival is what everyone's been debating on Twitter. While some think it's representative of the double standards between men and women in the music industry and world when it comes to a parent, others disagree. Taylor writes, This? I don't think this has anything to do with gender inequality. Beyoncé of all women in the world can wear whatever she wants and get away with it. This is her choice. In other ads, let him wear whatever he wants, he's not doing anyone any harm. They have a point. Obviously Beyoncé can wear whatever she wants and regularly chooses to wear outfits worthy of being enshrined in the loo.  For what some people are arguing, myself included during a very heated debate at 8am this morning, is that this is reflective of the double standards for men and women. Being a female pop star comes with the expectation that you'll wear incredible clothes all the time. Meanwhile, men can get away with a lot less effort or variation, whether on stage, in the boardroom, or on camera. Remember when the Daily Mail told a female TV presenter for wearing the same top twice? Meanwhile, her male colleagues wear the same suit literally every day. What's cool is that the new guard of pop stars are challenging these normative gender expectations. Billie Eilish lives in baggy pants and hoodies, Troye Cervantes rocking red lips and corsets and King Princess is sauntering round stage in a plain white tea smoking of eight. The future is coming and it's non-binary. This one's kind of embarrassing. The first artist I discovered was Dappie.  So let's go and mine everyone's guilty secrets. So we're going spotifywrapped.com. So scared. Is this it? Are you ready?  Can I? 2018 by listening to The Little Thing by Nox Fortune and the first artist you discovered was Rina Sawayama. Great. She's nice. She's great. Oh, that's great. You started 2018 by listening to The Star of Something New High School Musical 2. A beautiful song. Yep. Ooh. Oh, you started 2018 by listening to Grown Up Fairy Tales Future in Chance the Refer and Jeremiah by Mike Boomey. That's a good song. I stand by that. The first artist I discovered was Dappie. Hey. Oh, it's so high. It's so low immediately. I've just got a good music taste. I spent seven hours listening to Steely Dan. That's a lot of Steely Dan. Whoa, that's a lot of hours. 47 hours. 47 hours with your favourite artist, Childish Gambino and the pleasure was all there. Mine too. I saw him live this year as well. It's like one big ad for Spotify Premium. Top artist. The Aces. It's quite a good one. I think it was because I went to an Aces concert and then afterwards I was just canning their music. Goes to an Aces gig once. This one's kind of embarrassing. Midnight Train to Georgia. Yes. Top genre is pop, hip hop, R&B, Latin and reggae.  No. I think High School Musical was like as embarrassing as it's going to get. Star is something new. In between tunes, you tuned into some quality podcasts. Your favourite was Those Conspiracy Guys. Okay, what's your favourite conspiracy theory? Tell me what. We're living in a simulation, guys. Oh, so it's like the Matrix and this isn't a real. Yeah, no, this is real. It's like more likely that we're living in a simulation than in real life. No, I'm really spaced out. Well, there you have it, folks. What are your guilty secrets? Let us know. But don't be ashamed. Just make sure you don't accidentally play your rap to playlists at the Christmas party.


My name is Sam Battening. I am the author of Malignant Self-Love, Narcissism Revisited. To victims of abuse, my advice is unequivocal. Leave now. Leave before the effects of abuse, including post-traumatic stress disorder, PTSD. Set in and become entrenched. Leave before your children begin to pay the price as well. But if you insist on staying always against the best interests of yourself and your nearest and dearest, here is a survival manual with narcissistic and psychopathic abusers. First, five don't do's, how to avoid the wrath of the narcissist. Never disagree with the narcissist, and never contradict him. Never offer the narcissist any intimacy. Narcissists not only detest intimacy, they fear it, and they would react to any hint at intimacy as a threat. Look on by whatever attribute matters to the narcissist. For instance, by his professional achievements, or by his good looks. Comment on his success with women, etc. Make sure that you look properly astounded, amazed, and awe-inspired by the narcissist's force. Never remind the narcissist of life out there. And if you have no choice, then you have to remind him that there is life out there, not under his control and unrelated to him. Connect it somehow to his sense of grandiosity. Do not make any comments which might directly or indirectly impinge on the narcissist's self-image. Perception of omnipotence, judgment, omniscience, skills, capabilities, professional record, or even omnipresence. Here are a few examples of bad sentences, sentences which are bound to provoke abuse. I think you overlooked this event. I believe you made a mistake here. You don't know that. Do you know that? You were not here yesterday, so you couldn't have. You cannot. You should not. You should. All these sentences, or fragments of sentences, are perceived as rude impositions. Narcissists react very badly to restrictions placed on their freedom. These sentences also tend to question the narcissist's basic premises. That he is all-powerful. That he is all-knowing. That he is infallible. That he is irresistible.  Don't start sentences with the words I, my, mine. Narcissists regard other people as mere extensions of themselves. Their internalization processes were screwed up early on, and narcissists cannot differentiate properly between themselves and others. They have no boundaries. They expect you not to have them either. And now, a few do's, what to do, how to make your narcissists dependent on you if you insist against your best interests on staying with him. First of all, listen attentively to everything the narcissist says, and of course, agree with all of it. Don't believe a word of it, but let it slide, as if everything is just fine, business as usual. Personally, offer something absolutely unique to the narcissist, which the narcissist cannot obtain anywhere else. Be prepared to line up future sources of primary narcissistic supply for your narcissist, because you will not be it for very long, if at all. If you take over the procuring function for the narcissist, they become that much more dependent on you, which makes it a bit tougher for them to pull the roti stuff.  Even if you are the main channel of narcissistic supply, even if you procure new sources on a regular basis, finally, you will be punished and abused. This is an inevitability. So be endlessly patient, and go out of your way to be accommodating, thus keeping the narcissistic supply flowing liberally, and keeping the peace, relatively speaking. Be endlessly giving. This one may not be so attractive to you, but it is a take it or leave it proposition. You have to give all the time, and you can rarely, if ever, take back. Be absolutely emotionally and financially independent of the narcissist. Take what you need, the excitement, the engulfment, but refuse to get upset or hurt when the narcissist does or says something dumb, rude or insensitive. Narcissists are dumb, rude and insensitive. Yelling back at the narcissist works really well, but should be reserved for special occasions when you fear that your narcissist may be on the verge or on the brink of leaving you. Silent treatment is better, is an ordinary response, but it must be carried out without any emotional content. More with the air of boredom and ennui, and I'll talk to you later when I am good and ready, and when you are behaving in a more reasonable fashion. Call me when you grow up.  Be discreet. Your cerebral narcissist will not be indifferent to infidelity, so discretion and secrecy is of paramount importance.  Be careful. If a narcissist is somatic and you don't mind, join in on endlessly interesting group sex encounters that make sure that you choose properly for your narcissist. You are heedless and very undiscriminating in respect of sexual partners, and that can get very problematic. Narcissists often contract sexually transmitted diseases. Very few spouses would agree to participate in group sex or threesons, but if your narcissist is somatic and for some oblivious reason you insist on staying with him and suffering this coexistence, this relationship or so-called relationship, you have no choice.  If you are a fixer, then focus on fixing situations, preferably before they become situations. Don't, for one moment, delude yourself that you can fix the narcissist. It simply will not happen. Not because narcissists are being stubborn, but because they cannot be fixed. If there is any fixing that can be done, it is to help your narcissist become aware of their condition. And this is very important with no negative implications or accusations in the process at all. Don't blame, not attack, not accuse. Simply make him aware of his condition and what it implies for the relationship. It is like living with a physically handicapped person and being able to discuss, calmly and emotionally, what are the limitations and benefits of the handicapped and how the two of you can work with these factors rather than try to change it. Finally, most importantly, know yourself. What are you getting from the relationship?  Are you perhaps a co-dependent? Why is this relationship so attractive and interesting if you refuse to go away, to give it up? What's in it for you? Define for yourself what good and beneficial things you believe you are receiving in this relationship. The list may be much shorter than you have assumed. Define the things that you find harmful to you. Develop strategies to minimize the harm to yourself. Don't expect that you will cognitively be able to reason with the narcissist to change who they are. You may have some limited success in getting your narcissist to tone down on the really harmful behaviors that affect you which emanate from the unchangeable narcissism that he suffers. But this will be a limited success. Behavioral modification with the narcissist is both restricted and temporary. He will revert to form. I guarantee you that.  All this investment will go down the drain within a fortnight. The narcissist will go back to what he has been. So any change in the narcissist can only be accomplished in trusting, holding, frank and open relationship. This unfortunately are not the hallmarks of liaisons with narcissists. Think well what you're doing, what you hope to achieve, what is it that you miss when the narcissist gives you and whether the narcissist is the only source in this whole wide world with 7 billion people in it, only source of this gratification and satisfaction that you seek. I wish you a happy new year. A year of freedom.


Hey guys Jeremy here. I thought this was funny to talk about. I was looking on the internet, found on an article on a website called Geek Tyrant. Apparently Rob Cohen, the original director of the first Fast and the Furious movie, has given his thoughts and his hopes that he would come and direct the end, like the final film in the series. What I find funny about it is just how he actually kind of accepts in the interview as it was an interview with Screen Crush and he accepts how ridiculous the series has gotten. The franchise went from a Los Angeles story built around a family of multicultural brothers and sisters to what I'll call pure spectacle. The beauty is that the audience has written along with it for over 18 years. I'm very proud that the characters I created in 2001 are still in the lexicon. There's still a Domic Toretto appearing every two years or a Mia Toretto or a Letty. It had to evolve and it evolved in a way that was ultra worldwide commercial. And the heartbeat of it is, we live in a world with no gravities. Cars can do anything. They can burst out of the nose of airplanes. People can jump across freeways. They can take down helicopters. It's like okay, anything for spectacle. He accepts how ridiculous the series has gotten. If any of you watched my review for Fast 8, I made the joke at the beginning which said the first movie was about car racing and the stealing computers. And then the new one is literally about stopping World War 3. Literally stopping World War 3. What I find so funny still about the entire Fast & Furious series is that it came from Rob Cohen who in all honesty is a pretty shitty director. He's got some garbage under his plate. How this guy keeps making garbage? But he's been able to basically stay relevant and keep getting jobs.  The third mummy movie, the boy next door, Alex Cross. He's doing a movie right now called Hurricane Heist. And I think he's trying to emulate the ridiculousness of the Fast & Furious series at least from what I've seen in the trailer. But no, if they actually did do this, it would be devastating. But they won't because I don't think Universal wants to touch this guy. From what I've heard, Rob Cohen is exactly the best of people to work with. He's got a bit of a dingo. But I don't know. Just wondering what you guys' thoughts on this. To be honest, I made the joke the other day that basically the Fast & Furious movies are going to get so ridiculous that they're going to go to Mars. And then they're going to go through different galaxies. They're going to figure out how to do warp drive. They're going to cross dimensions. And at one point it's going to be Dominic Toretto and Captain Kirk having a street race in their spaceships. And then all of a sudden there's going to be some argument about a teacup and someone's going to get killed with it. Somehow they're probably going to bring back Paul Walker via hologram or some garbage. Dominic Toretto is going to transfer his consciousness into a car because he's like, oh, a quarter mile with my brain. Vin Diesel said that he thinks that it will end at ten. I'm kind of waiting for Justin Lin to come back. I really want Justin Lin to come back because he's the one who brought this series back from death. And he stuck with it for four movies. Anyways guys, just wondering what you're thinking about that. If you're interested, maybe leave a comment down below about what you're interested in. What you think of the Fast and Furious series. What you think Fast 9 is going to be about because I don't know how you can top World War 3. I literally don't know how you can. But unless they go into space, there's still space. Anyways guys, if you liked this video leave a like. If you're interested in more of these talks, maybe subscribe. Because maybe I'll try this more movie news stuff. So anyways, that's all from me. See you guys next time.


For me the 21 convention is an experience. It's not something which is just a bunch of videos It's an experience that happens and that carries over to the videos online so it's a complete movement and It's so that people can be the best possible person that they can be and that's a rare thing It does not exist in this world where people can learn about seduction business health and even Evolve into an entire human being which transcends just those three things. It's the only Convention out there website movement, whatever you want to call it that That gives an opportunity to this in the experience of actually attending the event coming to the convention Meeting with the speakers It gives a catalyst for people to make some of the biggest changes in their life, which are beyond What any other convention that I've seen do would you say it's a lot of the 21 convention defines life Rather than just being alive. It is what gives life to people who thought they you know We're dead in these areas when it comes to business I mean talking to people about that or when it comes to seduction when it comes to exercise People in terms of fitness man. I've seen I've been doing this for this my fourth year doing it And I have seen guys completely change completely change in terms of fitness the most you know when they come and see at first was Drew Bay then it was Drew Bay Marxist and and Doug McGuff all these great guys and there's more than that Yeah, I'm leaving people out, but they do the diet. They do the exercise they change their lives It gives them motivation to carry over into all different things and to be a man It does not mean to live by a high or a low It means to live where you stand and where you stand defines you the 20 21 convention gives a stage in a platform for that life to happen


What's good job your bull rocks back again with another video. So we're going to check out wrestling counters one man by none other than BW. I can't even see BDWJ forever, man. Y'all go subscribe to his channel down below. Looking forward to for him to post some more videos on this page. But I appreciate it. I love the sport. Let's get right into this one. Sunset perhaps going for it again. Oh! Oh, right into the armbar. Oh, yeah. Ooh! Oh! Even though he turned, he clapped. He backed up. Oh, nice! With a head of steel. Bust the knee! Oh! She was late. Another hard kick and he's back on her feet. Oh! And that time, Kana able to catch the kick before it connected right to an ankle lock she got. Control, but there's Ace Austin. Oh, that was nice. He slipped. That was nice. And title match. He didn't get all of that. He moved into the title shot. I can't stand this. Oh, I love that. I don't know where he connects with us. He's done it. Excuse me. That's so hard on him. And that. Oh! I don't think he's at all good. And the ropes goes Tanahashi. Sunset flip attempt. Oh, he's not got anything here. He's got a strong grip here. He's got to watch out here because the vertical splash. He's just sitting here. It looks like the strategy doesn't work. And now, it's our junior. It's our junior. It's our junior. It's our junior. Terrible. John's going to need to have it against the slaughterer. Matanza. Oh! Man, that's... Come on. Got to suplex him again, maybe. Well, maybe not. Rolls through. Oh! Very impressive. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Right on the apron. Kill it now. Oh, that was fast. Come in the two feet. He's harming straight to the face. He really just starts selling like he couldn't see where he was. Oh! That was sick. I ain't going to lie to you. That was the sickest counter so far in this video. Him in the upward position, looking like he's about to get power bombed, of sorts, to time nap. We got to see that again. Well, no. It's not even power bombed. It looked like he's about to get, you know... I don't know, maybe... I don't know. I don't know what move they about to get. He's in a fireman's carry position. Look at this.  Look at the retainer tonight. Oh! That was nice. Look at that! That was fantastic. Can he get it? Uh-oh. No! Oh! Oh! Oh! The rear-naked chug walked in by Jordan. That's going to be it! Hit me, Jacobs! Now, Scott was asking Bill, ready to not flush it for what? The Superman spirit. Oh! Oh! Into a cutter. No! Where it tastes again. How did he choke? Into a guilty. He's not ready to be red last right yet. What can he get there? Filthy Tom really tried to crank it in, but where it tastes is up. Oh! Oh my God! The straight to hell! The straight to hell. Oh! Damn! Oh! God damn! Oh! Nice! Nice super! From the apron, connecting with the kick, Jordan Oliver springboards off the... Oh! ...of Attica. Oh! Will it be a submission victory to take Candice to the finals? Melissa, Melissa is going to be stronger and she's fighting to her feet. Scoop! Oh! Good strength here shown by Melissa. Oh! Gutbuster over the knee. That was Candice Spring. A kick and a miss and the force of nature. He's got it locked. Here it goes. This is a big finisher. No one gets that out. Oh! Right on his head. Jesus. Now time to take a chance. Let's go. Jesus. The sea stars working in unison. And look out there, this favors ACH. Oh! Okay. Okay, it looks like a... It's crazy seeing these women versus men matches in the indie scenes. That is so crazy to me to see. Oh! Oh! All holes onto it. Oh! Oh! Oh! That was... That was impressive. My God! That was... That was impressive. He immediately into the ring. Oh! Whoa!  That was insane.  Teddy! Teddy! Oh my God! Teddy hard! It's the... Okay. All these damn flips right into them. They're gonna encourage me. Super Dragon now. El Generico. Going to the top rope. Going for that. Tornado DDT. Oh! Okay. Oh! Wow! Call for me inside the ring. Oh! Uh-oh. I'm loving these RRH clips. They are our teams. Because you can feel the passion. Ooh! Feel the passion from the crowd from the wrestlers, man. Not to say all these other clips don't have a clip. It's somewhat the RRH clips. They're just... just beautiful. Oh! Come on, Bob.   Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! That was right. She... She's selling the dead look.  Oh, wow. You got to win there. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Whoa, whoa. What's happening? What's happening? What's happening? What's happening with her fantastic grip? Uh-oh. Oh, my boy! Oh, my boy! Eat my day. The positioning on that... Oh, wow. Oh, wow.  That pin though. Oh! Pin again. But that's a lot of strength. Was this film on VHS? No, bro. That is too much.  Whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh, whoa. Oh, oh. Presley, she is the difference between Viper and the ropes. Viper able to break it and put her arm around B Priestie's head, but B's trying to keep hold of that wrist. She doesn't want to let go. Viper's managed to make her let go now. And fight her. In front of the crowd. Oh, man. That was interesting. That was interesting, man. Not even a lot to you. Like I was saying in the video, I do like the ROH clips when we see them. It just seems like a different time in wrestling just to see that and to see the young wrestlers that we know of today. And WWE and AEW. And all the other places as well. But ROH is just crazy to see that, man. And to tell the people that was there, didn't matter where it was, whether it was a gym or not. They love what they saw in the ring and the passion for it was undeniable. So I love to see that. And all these other clips as well. So comment down below. Let me know what was your favorite counter from this video. Appreciate all the love and support. ROH too. Sandy Kay. Appreciate y'all kicking with me. See y'all in the next one. Peace.