When you work in the food sovereignty movement, you look at the world through the lens of power, not soil, carbon, not companion planting, not gardening or composting or anything like food waste. Like you look at it through power. Power as a force of oppression, as well as power as a force of liberation.  Lauren is the co-founder and executive director of a growing culture, AGC, which is a 501C3 nonprofit that confronts unjust power in the food systems. In creating AGC, Lauren works to shift the public's perception of agrarians from one of passive beneficiaries to one of active innovators. AGC is a farmer-centric organization that believes the key to sustainability lies in returning small-scale farmers back to the forefront of agriculture. As part of this growing movement, Lauren and his colleagues promote advocacy, farmer-led research, food sovereignty and allyship helping to create sustainable and self-driving futures. A growing culture confronts unjust power in our food systems. They are a movement, an organization that strives really to democratize food systems by connecting, amplifying and resourcing those on the front lines of the fight for food sovereignty. Welcome to the show. It's so good to have you here, Lauren. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you, Mark. Appreciate it. We met through a mutual friend and she says, you've got to have Lauren on the podcast. So Diane Hatz is a good friend of mine and you've been on her program, Change Food as well as Food Tank from Danielle Nienberg and you've done many, many things around food and I love your style, I love what you're doing and I'm glad that it worked out that we're here today.   We need to get it fixed. And how have you weathered this crazy time? You know, I've been fortunate enough to feel that this time hasn't changed my perception and hasn't caused any pivots, new revelations or awakenings. When you work in the food sovereignty movement, you look at the world through the lens of power, not soil, carbon, not companion planting, not gardening or composting or anything like food waste. Like you look at it through power, power as a force of oppression as well as power as a force of liberation. You know, the work before COVID and the work during COVID and the work after COVID is going to be the same. It's confronting this unjust power, confronting the consolidation in our food system. And I've been fortunate enough that COVID hasn't changed anything for me. It hasn't, it's been a distraction from the work that I'm really rooted in. And so I've cut myself off by just hunkering down, you know, and working every day as hard as I can. Last year was an incredible year for us. I mean, you know, I felt like, I just realized like almost, I think two weeks ago, we hired two new staff this year.  We get what you've been talking about. We understand why we need to look at inequity in our food system. And so it was recently this last month when we brought in the last staff member, most recent staff member and I was able to have a team and working on this together at the moment, but I was able to actually start to breathe and realize that, you know, last year was like an extremely unhealthy year for me. It was one of manic and just epic proportions of obsessive and compulsive work behavior, which definitely had its own COVID influence on me.  I've been doing this for 10 years. We've never been able to raise enough money to employ anybody, including myself. I've been invited, disinvited for more things than I've been invited to. You know, we've been in rooms in the beginning of conversations when they're defining terms like regenerative agriculture and people just want us to leave because we say the same damn thing every time, which is like, where's the equity? Where's the humanization? Where's the de-objectification? Why are we just talking about the car? You know, our message hasn't changed. We've always, the bold and audacious dream that we've always held was a food system that nurtures the one who grows our food rather than exploits it. And so it's been lonely. It's been lonely in a world where you even think that, you know, like you look around and you see green environmentalism, sustainability, and you see all these conferences, these panels, these articles, and each one of them was like a stab in the heart. Every time I went to an event, I left depressed and angry so much that you stopped going because it was so honest for me to see how deeply elitist and racist these environments were, how they were exclusionary, right? And one of my favorite quotes of all time is Chico Mendez, who's just nobody, if you don't know about Chico Mendez, go.  You need to go and look it up. We'll put a link to where they can find that, yeah. You know, he says that environmentalism without class struggle is just gardening. And I want people to think about the power of those words. Why that is so important? Why do you use gardening? What is the difference between gardening and farming? Gardening is producing for the individual. Farming is producing for those you don't know. You know, we put out this article a few weeks ago called Welcome Movements Won't Save the World. You know, it's definitely a little bit provocative, but there's a line between this on this article that really resonates. That if you could read one line of this, that it would sum it up. And it is the difference between a food system that reproduces injustice and fights against it is the degree to which it is focused on the individual versus the collective. When you see the trends in the food movement and environmentalism, what we see is everything through a lens of individualism. My vegan diet, my microbiome, my compost pile, my fork, my local food, my garden. Vote with your dollar, just the least democratic thing ever. Vote with your fork, which is turning that dollar into a fork. Like this is the world we live in. And so like when I see this pandemic of individualism that has plagued environmentalism and sustainability, we start to see how every intervention is about consumer privilege, is about entrenching or leading them, is about enforcing those power dynamics. That's when you feel lonely. That's when your mother's best friends who are foraging you articles from the Guardian and the New York Times, they think you're gonna love them and you read them and you just get sad.  Buy this product and we'll all be fine. We all plant the trees, we'd all be fine. We all compost and the world will be saved. The solution is under your feet.  That's not real. And so what this pandemic did is in some ways confront that duality between individualism and collectivism. So in the words of like back on Marvel, right? So I'm not optimistic because when you're optimistic you think everything's gonna go right and you don't do anything to change it.   That's what you'll have to rip from my cold dead hands is my hope. That somehow through all of this, we come out at least an ounce more of collective spirit and we begin to fight for the ones we don't know. Wow, that's beautiful.  It's indigenous wisdom, agrarian societies, one of the oldest economies in the world and the beginnings of many. How do we, you talk a lot about power. How do we get that power? How do we empower people? What are your messages? I don't know if you also know Sanjay Rawal from one of Diane Hatt's friends as well directed the film Gather. And there's a lot about Indian, indigenous Indians and kind of going back to their roots of gathering and food production, all the extreme racism and crap that occurred just with Americans in the United States and what they went through in many different tribes and nations, but I think we even need to go deeper. So I mean, you've definitely brought up this time and that, but I wanna go deeper in the power, but I also wanna go deeper in maybe the big history of this and what are we getting wrong? What's the shifts that need to be made? What are we just not grasping correctly? Well, first of all, Sanjay is a good friend of mine. Second of all, everybody's together. Sanjay is brilliant. And that whole team that put that film together is brilliant. And you're absolutely right. Collectivism was how we survived for 23 out of the 24 hours of humanity's existence. It's only recent that we've gone to this individualism. This is nothing new. Food is love. Food is love, love and love, but our food system is built upon the many acts of injustice that have plagued us since those first years of Brazil. When I talk about our food system, when I talk about agriculture as this failure, mistake, fraud, plague, whatever it is, because it is, I talk about grain farming. Our relationship to the natural world existed in many ways. We were cultivating. We were managing landscapes. That was collective. That was regenerative. I know people want to hear that word. Grain farming did something different. The birth of grain farming is the birth of sedentary society. It's the birth of taxation in the nation state. It's the birth of walls. It's the birth of the military. It's the birth of surplus distribution in politics. It's the birth of hegemonic thinking, class, caste, race, gender discrimination, malnutrition, poverty, the very first seeds sown at the Neolithic Revolution. We're not seeds of leader barley, but we're seeds, hegemonic, racism and patriarchy. Today you look around vast inequity, prison industrial conflicts, neoliberalism, nonprofit industrial conflicts, military industrial conflicts. You look at all these systems. We are reaping what we sowed. These are the fruits of those first seeds.  We've never had a food system. Yeah, we have never had a food system that didn't exploit. And what we now know, Mark, is that those very first walls were not designed to keep outsiders out, but peasants in. Because they were like, screw this, I'm going to the mountains to grow root crops where they can't tax me. But this nation state and nationalism and taxation and all that birthed out of that is at the heart of this individualism because it also birthed with the class private property. It also birthed with the class monogamy and the structures in place to pass down elitism and hegemonic structures. It's not indigenous to who we are at all, you know. And if, in the words of a dear friend of mine, Chris Newman from Silvernautville, at the end of one of his broadcasts for hunger justice on the dream team episode that he did, he said, if the world is to be saved, it's going to be through BIPOC people. Now, this is important because he says if the world will be saved because it's not looking like it is. The second thing is through BIPOC people. So we can interpret this as, oh yeah, people that are most oppressed and marginalized are able to be resilient and come up with the solution that we need. I don't think that's what he was saying. I think the reason he said that is because there's another way of knowing, another way of seeing, another way of relating that isn't the dominant white lens. And I think that if this world is to be saved, it's going to be adopting another way of relating to this world, one that isn't based on individualism, white supremacy and capitalism. It'll be moving towards a post-capitalist society of collectivism, whatever that looks like. Can you go a little bit more even deeper for some of these terms, even though they're very old, it's been around a long time. And I think we're probably a little bit more versed on them, even in the conferences that you and I have both attended all over, where you get this frustration of what people are talking about. Just a little bit more, I'll ask you to almost teach us or give us a little bit of education. What the power structure is, but what's the transition? What's the hope? What do we need to do? What are some actionable things that we can apply our ways to empower farmers to really bring back or not even bring back because it never existed, but change that paradigm, change the way they've been treated and fix the system somehow? You know, I think of our food system as an hourglass market, right? On one side, you have the peasant food web, the producers of this world's food, right? I say peasant because that's what I believe we should call them. That's what the community wants to be called. The largest membership organization in the world is La Via Compestima, peasant life. 200 million plus members.  So what happens is in the middle, it's an hourglass because it's being pledged. Yesterday's Pharaoh was today's monolith, corporate trends, national company, wheezing the life and dividing these two populations which together make up 99.99999% of the world. But it pits them against each other. If you want to prioritize the producers, you end up screwing over the consumers because it's not affordable. Your product goes into whole foods and very few people can afford it. If you want to prioritize the consumers, you end up screwing over the producers. You don't pay them. And we live in a society where these populations are pitted against each other because they don't want to prioritize and think of each other now because of that divide. So even the privilege, the elite, when they go to whole foods, they ask more questions about how the animal was treated and about the human that was in that process. In the film gather, there's, or in the documentary gather, it's really if you want to control any kind of indigenous population or anyone, you just cut off the food supply. You take control over it. You don't allow access to buffaloes, to certain farming rights, to certain fishing rights.  Or you turn that entire population into something that only migrant workers would do, which is another form of racism enslavement was a big issue with Brexit. And we're seeing it all over the world right now. That's why the big vote of the Brexit was basically they didn't want migrant workers taking their jobs. And then they were gone. And especially during the lockdown, none of those people from the United Kingdom jumped into those jobs and said, you'd be now we've got the jobs. And it basically screwed them because of that. But I'd like to get in that, but we're also dealing with that in India. In India now, there's a huge upheaval with around agriculture and farming and land rights and many other issues. So I want to even go, I want to go deeper. What, what, what's- Yeah. I mean, I think this is important because these are the issues. It's that like that clenching of that hourglass is the enforcing that the power has to pass through those on both ways, right? And so what happens now is these communities turning into each other. What we have to find ways of is taking that hourglass and stretching it and connecting those bottoms and top and uniting, right? That solidarity works, right? So to, to understand, you know, the Indian example is really difficult to understand. It's nuanced, it's diverse as everything India is. That is a magnificent, magnificent place of epic diversity. And so next week on the 12th, we're actually having a, March 12th, we're having a broadcast with about, I think it'll be over 15 speakers from India talking about the protest. But to understand this, the area that it's in, the epicenter is in the bread basket. It's in the grain basket of India, right? So this community is the early adopters and active participants of India's green revolution. These are industrial farmers. They're small scale, but these are farmers that were using industrial seed and petrochemicals, right? So that's something to understand that, like they've been squeezed from this system, from the get-go. And now they can't take it and aim more because you came for their security, which was the basic limit of their power was this bargaining right. Was this guaranteed? Because they've lost all the rest of their power in the adoption of industrial agriculture. They've lost it. And so the only thing that they could count on that said, I see you, I will care for you, I will protect you was the government's guarantee and that's gone. And that's why they're at the streets because they're reclaiming the power and it's uniting consumers and producers across the subcontinent of India, right? Like you're right, in Brexit, nobody wants those jobs. In the United States, nobody wants those jobs. Farmers, it's not easy. It shouldn't be romanticized. This is hard work. These are tours on the field. These are pursuers of erudition. These are one of my first farmer that I ever studied on, right? He said, farming is in rocket science but a rocket science is gonna do it. I love that quote because he's absolutely right. Yeah, because it's hard work. I mean, it's not only a science but it is a thing of art. I've seen migrant labor, which are, they are the farmers, they're the harvesters, the planners, they're really taking care of it. They're the ground workers, they are the farmer but we see them as only in addition to this system and that's not the case. It's beautiful what they do and how quickly they work and how efficiently they work. And this kind of also ties into something you just mentioned a minute ago and I don't know if you wanna get into that or address it but I'd like to have a little discussion about it. In 2008, all food systems were turned into commodity.   So now we've turned the food system into a commodity and people who aren't farmers, who aren't harvesters, who aren't the growers, the planners are now saying we need to get this just as cheap as possible. We need to produce it just as cheap as possible and I'll give you an example. I get products from Vietnam here in Germany all the time and there's no way in hell that a mango could cost one euro that's sent from Vietnam or Thailand or that a handful of cashews or a bag full of cashews could cost less than two euros that's coming from Vietnam or Thailand, right? That's not the total true cost, the natural capital, the total environmental cost, all those things are no longer be factored in and somewhere that payment, that finite resource has to be paid for. And so instead of using the term resource, why don't we talk about the relationship that the indigenous farmers usually had with our world, with our earth and that kind of, that's where I guess the original regenerative practices or gatherers or this thing occurred while there was always a cycle there. Yeah, I mean, there was the lack of commodification. There was a refusal to commodify. Owning seed was just unimaginable and that is a constant narrative throughout indigenous communities, you know? And we've corrupted the system, you know? We've adopted neoliberalist policies and these systems are absolutely under attack, you know? We had to go to Zambia in November of last year because our partners reached out, our grassroots partners as well as the largest civil society organization in Africa, the Alliance for Food Sovereignty in Africa. They asked that we come there and help them campaign against the adoption of seed trees that made indigenous seed illegal. Now these are being pushed by Agra, the Alliance for Green Revolution in Africa, which anybody can look up who's behind that and that's the Rockefeller Foundation and Bill Gates Foundation. And they're pushing the adoption of these policies all over the world. They want to control the market because they know that their seed will only exist and thrive in a market where everyone is derivatives of themselves. These local seeds outproduce, outcompete these hybrid and industrial varieties all the time. I mean, like in India, we support a farmer, right? Going back to India that has like 17 varieties that grow in salt water, rice varieties, salt water. He has 12 varieties that can live under water for up to two weeks. That means they're not breathing during a huge fall. He has 64 varieties that are drought tolerant that don't need a drop of water after transport.  You know, but these varieties are developed without ownership. This is the peasant food web. The revolution might not be televised, but it will be open source, right? And that's how that knowledge is growing and treated. But it also makes, when you have knowledge like that that's unclaimed, it's threatened by the industrial machine, by the intellectual property rights, by the pattern. So what we're working with the farmer out there to enter all these into the comments, to report on them, to protect them so that these companies can take these varieties. So far he's published in over 45 peer-reviewed journals, Science, Nature, the two most high up academic journals for this kind of subject matter, published in Scientific American, editorial boards have backed his research to prove that not a single one of these hybrid or industrial seeds outperform his varieties, you know? But then what's the challenge? How does he get funding? He doesn't, right? How does he get support? How do we commodify this? Because we can't commodify it, nobody's supporting this process because they're not recognizing the inherent value within his system and these seeds. Listen, Mark, he found a variety of seeds, he's studying them and he's testing his one variety and he sees it spiking in silver. He's like, how can rice be spiking in silver? He goes back and tests it again, spikes again. Goes through his notes. This indigenous community giving the rice and they called it poor man's rights.  That bacteria, it pulls silver from the ground, stores in the house. So he published this academic paper on it, right? You wanna see the problem with whiteness and in our society right now, is that three different companies wrote to him asking for to buy the rights of that rice. Not a single person wrote to him wanting to support his work. Razi, absolutely insane. I want you to tell us a little bit more about a growing culture, how it started, words going, you told us you've hired some new people but the bigger vision, the bigger mission, how is it truly a movement? And I know you're working from Vietnam to Africa and different places around the world you're doing on and offline stuff. Tell us a little bit more about that. Tell us where we need to go to get smart about it and kind of give us the, not the simple version but kind of a enlighten us, things that most of us wouldn't know. The growing culture is a very different and interesting organization I'd have to say. And I'm definitely biased but we work in a different way. We don't have a solution, Mark. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that we have a solution for anything. We're comfortable in not knowing. You know, we don't champion a one-size-fits-all which almost every nonprofit does, right? Like we've seen that. We're not saying that urban gardens are gonna save the world or building gyms or after-school programs or food aid or composting or whatever. We don't, that's not our thing. So we have no solution but I can point you to about 10,000 people that do and none of them look like me. And we champion those folks. We are a collective of activists with different skill sets that you read out in the beginning from media to grant writing, to communications, to graphic design, to videography, to software and I mean, everything. And what we do is we are in service to the grassroots communities. These last 10 years, it's 11 now. We have built the deepest trust, appreciation and networks across the world with peasant and indigenous communities. This is built on mutual respect. And with that, we are in service to the community. If they need support with anything, they come to us and ask. We don't design an implemented program. One community can say, we need support raising capital for this rice program. We want to do media campaigns and we need your help creating media and graphic design campaigns. We need your help creating an event and hosting this broadcast. We need your help organizing this twice a year coordination between media representatives and the peasant food web so that they can report on the stories, the killings, the red tagging, the displacements, the land grabbing that we're dealing with that nobody's reporting on and because this injustice happens in the dark help us shine a light. Whatever they ask, we do. If it's not in our network, we work hard to find it. We bring in legal counsel. So like we want the black farmer legal fund so that farmers in the United States, black farmers have access to free legal support. Whatever it is, we work in service to these communities because the three most powerful words in the language is I see you and that's what we do. And the more staff we bring on, the more skills and talent that we can put in service to grassroots and indigenous and peasant communities because they know what to do. They don't need to be told. They don't need to be educated. They don't need to be empowered. They need people to see them and to fight in the trenches with them and we will do everything we can to do that. Brighton, there's this Australian saying this Aboriginal saying that's like, if you came here to help me, I don't want your help. But if you came here because your liberation is tied to mine, let's get to work. Love it. We get to work. That's what we do. And so we will be growing over the next years to have more resources to deploy in grants and untethered unrestricted support of food sovereignty movements. We will have staffing to work with them in any way they can. Policy directors, to media, to PR professionals, we're going to develop out an outfit and an agency that does nothing but in service to these communities. That says, how can I assist you in acts of shared liberation and mutual respect and co-dreaming? That's the organization we are. And that's why it doesn't translate to many functions because they say, well, what is the tangible outcome? What does this look like? I don't know. Some of the groups we work with are anarchists. Some of them are Marxists. Some of them are capitalists. We fight for all of them the same because the difference is diversity over uniformity. The industrialized system is the system of uniformity. We believe in the diversity of opinion, the diversity of reflection, and that's what sovereignty is. It's the ability to manifest a dream. And we fight for that ability and that agency and that humanization, not a practice because when you celebrate agency and you unlock the bondage and you start to realize that we are not part of the food chain, we are food chains, then you see that practice is infinite. Innovation is a verb. You start to see these things before you say, and it's not about that. We're not trying to push some practice that embeds in a system of injustice. We're trying to stop the objectification and ignite a new system rooted on that agency and creative potential of the ones who grow food. It's really in line with just how the world works anyway because there is no apple that tastes the same over years and decades and centuries. They can have some certain qualities, but sometimes it might be sweeter or it might be more sour or tart and with any type of food and there's that indigenous local way that nature works everywhere. And I think that's a nice thing that I'm hearing out from you is you're working with those cultures that are very indigenous to wherever they are and whatever their belief and that culture is that you wanna help them to keep that biodiversity, keep doing what they're doing and has really truly bottom up.   And why don't you come at us a little bit softer? How can we get everybody on board and you're scaring us type of it.   Do you ever deal with that at all? All the time, all the time. I don't, I don't, you know. And I mean, yeah.  I mean, people always, you know, after the lecture, the talks, presentations, they get these letters and comments that so inspired but overwhelmed, you know, I feel disempowered or lost in what I can do. I feel stuck and paralyzed in this knowledge now. Now everything I thought I was doing right is wrong. I get that. What help do you have for people or how? I think it's fine. I think we have to embrace not knowing. I think we have to embrace imperfection. I think we have to embrace it, but I think what I really want people to come out with is ability to ask more questions, to go deeper, to start looking at something like local food movements, right? So like when we wrote that article, it was like, why are you coming after local food, right? It seems so perfect. But once you start to understand that like the wealth of the industrial North has been pulled from all of the resources of the global South. And so the graphic we use was dug up Africa and South America piled on top of United States and Europe. And we had that statement, local food movements on the table, because it's like, okay. So after all that colonization, after all that extraction, now the privileged people and those sources of resources want to say, I'm gonna do local. So now I'm gonna silo all this wealth that has been taken in script by generation. And I'm gonna think that this is saving the world, right? Like the problem is not that local food is bad. Local food is great and we should always do that if we can, but when we think that that's the solution, like that's the end all, that's the danger, Mark. Like that's the danger is because we're ignoring, we're acting in a ratio, right? When in the first conversation I said, you said, this is nothing new, of course. Collectivism is nothing new, right? Like, so the problem is the denying of the historic or trauma of colonization, the denying of indigenous and BIPOC knowledge and contribution. And so when we create this silo in these communities, what we're doing is adding to that erasure. We're denying the past. There's no solution that doesn't gonna address some kind of reparative justice. We need that. And I don't have that. So I'm not judging anybody. What I want them to do is to ask questions and think deeply. I don't wanna see signs on Kiss the Ground's website that say healthy soil solves everything because like, come on, come on. Like, that's not, and I want people to see that and say, wait, this isn't right. Like, you know, and so there's amazing activism that's happening local, but that like, it's taking some of this knowledge and this reparative justice. It's addressing equity in the local movements, building in SNAP and inclusive environments into your local farmer's markets. We need to figure out ways to do this. We can't be complacent with the status quo of white ideas, like, and that are just rooted in these spaces.  And everyone thinks they're saving the world by being there. Yeah, yeah. Well, one reason why I have this different lens or this view of global citizenry or this bigger view of the world is because, you know, I'm from America. My mother was German and grandmother Austrian, but I have a family, not only in Europe, but in Asia, I traveled to Asia and I've seen, it just grew up seeing different races and different cultures and different ways of producing food. Come from six generations of Germany's oldest farmers, you know, and organic farmers for the last three and a half generations at least. And really, it's this craziness that we're separating one, one another from distant cousins. We're all on the same spaceship Earth. We all crawled out of the same primordial soup. There's nobody dropped off here from Venus, Mars, or Germany and the U.S. We're all Homo sapiens and origins are the same, but it's just unfathomable the way we're going with this. When I, I mean, a gather was a shaking documentary for me because I like, how have we assimilated and basically torn apart these tribes to almost nothing? I mean, when I watch that, the obesity, the diabetes when they're talking about their drug and jail problems and social problems, but just how they've dismantled them into this whole other system. And I'm like, how are they ever going to build back? They're almost down to nothing, you know? And I feel so bad because that's the roots of humanity. That's our roots of our historical ancestry, you know? We're the same species and we're destroying each other just this, it's just, it's just shaking.  And I wanted to tell you, that's why I come off like this because we're, we're, we can see the elephant in the savannah and not the elephant in the room, Mark, which is our privilege. You know, you want to know what tools needed to fix the food system, it's a mirror. Like we need to start to understand that you said the cost, you have never paid the true cost because everything you have ever eaten has been subsidized by the exploitation of others.   Like, because this is the truth, what we did to the indigenous communities. And I was on a call with, with the wizzie from well, quote, a buffalo ranch, right? Yesterday. And he said, he said, you know, people always like, why don't we have this? Why don't we have this? It's like, think about how much we'd have if we didn't have to buy back our lands first. Like, like, like this is unbelievable. Like we need to account for some kind of reparative justice. We can't just look for things to make ourselves feel good. You know how many people think buying a Tesla is enough? A funny looking white bulb is enough. Shopping from your local, no.  We need to start that. And that's why Bernie Sanders' most powerful ad last year was that fight for someone you don't know. Remember that? It's a beautiful ad. Like, that makes you feel something. That makes you feel something. That's unbutton. I am because we are. How do we tap into that, Mark? And do you see that in the, in the, in the liberal community? Like, do you see that in the spiritual community? Do you see that in the sustainability community?  It doesn't exist. And Carl Sagan's first wife, Lynn Margolis, you know, she was fabulous around the symbiotic earth and micro Riza and kind of how just our world works in a symbiotic way. And I just absolutely not. There's, it's not natural selection survival of the fittest only the strong survive. It's through collaboration and cooperation. That's the true way we work. And we've gotten off track on this other system. And I really don't even want to go down that track with you on the show. I want to kind of, you know, give the chilling awake, but where can we start to make those shifts in those movements?  I can, we can see unrest, disease and that they're really failing us. But I truly believe in this, going back again to Lynn Margolis, this kind of a symbiotic earth. How do we create an ecological economic model or a model that works for everyone? What does a world that works for everyone look like? A model that we can say everywhere works for us because we're all homo sapiens, we're all distant cousins. What does that work look like? And how do we get there? And I have some ideas. I like to be crazy and kind of out there, but it takes that biodiversity that you're talking about. We need to go to those pastorials and those peasants and those indigenous wisdoms and get everybody's voice at the table and everybody's anger at the table to come together for a solution. And so there's two questions in there. One, and you might think this is also the wrong, the wrong place is the United Nations coming out this year with the Food Systems Summit. So it's 197 countries all over the world. It's a secretary general to bring everybody at the table to talk about food and how can we fix and repair the food systems and have it be one that works for everybody. I'm taking part of it. I encourage others to have their seat and voice their concerns or whatever to play a role and especially indigenous communities. So they're the ones who need it the most at that seat at the table. So that it doesn't go rye again, so to say. And then the second one is the question for you is the burning question. It's WTF and it's not the swear word that everybody's thinking about it. It's what's the future? What's our plan? What's our model? And what does a world that works for everyone look like for you? And those are kind of I wanna get your thoughts and I wanna get your answer to that. Where we're going and how we're gonna get there. It looks like freedom of expression man within the farmscape, but then it looks like it's we don't, for me it's so powerful because I root in sovereignty. You won't see me talking about regenerative agriculture or agriculture or organic or biodynamic or bio intensive. You don't see that with me. Like, because like I don't fight for principles. I fight for people's right to shape their food system. Right, which is the diversity of reflection, right? Like, you know, I've been in Egypt working with farmers and this farmer says, please, I want, can you come to my farm? I wanna show you my farm.  And then you're going through the fields and there's just people spraying and the same irrigation pathways are going through. And by the time we get to him, we passed all of that. And he looks at me and he goes, I wanna be organic. How do I make this farm organic? What are you gonna say? Does that person have the right? Does that person have the liberty and the choice to be organic? There's nothing they can do. Nothing, no possibility. Yeah, that's when they have to almost build up a wall around their own thing, create their own walls and borders and division and they still can achieve it. Yeah, because the irrigation that feeds their water is already contaminated. So there's no wall that can do it because the resource is collective. And so when you have people banning the right for indigenous seeds, preventing them on the market, when you have a condition where nine out of 10 farmers in the Philippines don't own the land they till because they're caught in feudal land policies that were put in place during US occupation. When you have West Africa producing 80% of the world's cacao, but getting less than 2% of $100 billion revenue, no wonder it's all child-savvy. Okay, I need to stop it because you've just touched upon something. Let's take that same model that, okay, it's there's no way because their same resource is already in this other crazy system that it's already contaminated. It's already got the chemicals in it. It's already got the seeds in it. Let's step a little bit further. Yeah. The overview effect, the earth view. You and I read the same air that Gandhi did that the Plato, Socrates and whoever Aristotle breathed the same, Julius Caesar, whoever you wanna say, we breathe that same air. We've drank the same water. It's all recycled on our planet one way or the other. So even further than that, that goes back to the question I asked you. What does a world that works for everyone look like for you? What's the future?  The soil and water contamination that's happening in the US is gonna affect me and Mexico and Brazil.   So how do we get a better operating system where we're more in this alignment, a symbiotic alignment with one another, empowering one another or even giving those peasants the thing to have a voice to change that system instead of to have the feeling of enslavement or being stuck on that hamster wheel of endless doom, you know, how do we get there? What, I wanna hear your answers. We form cooperatives, we form collectives, we unite in solidarity, we return power into these grassroots communities and we take it back peacefully or violently but we have to take that power back, right? You know, that's the reality, right? And if I told you that the future of this food system looks like a food system where every farmer practiced regenerative techniques and built soil carbon, like that would translate to you. If I said our future is where everybody eats local food, that will translate. But when we talk about equity, it's hard for us to see the tangibility in it because we're so caught up in the injustice. Like, but like that's what I'm saying, which is just as clear as a world where everybody buys local or just everybody like, you know, builds soil carbon. Like it's that like the farmers can dictate their price, their practice, their design, that the communities can celebrate their cultural food and not be under threat and be attacked every day of their lives. It's breaking out the corporate control of our food system so that people have freedom of expression within their food web and food culture. It's so important. It's so important. And that's what we have to fight for. I know it's complex and I know it, but the brilliance is in the complexity. The brilliance is in the diversity because for Joe Jandai in Thailand, he's worked with thousands and thousands of farmers to create a social enterprise where every farmer now has to grow fish, fruit trees, rice, vegetables, meat. They feed their community and their homes. Then the company buys the surplus at a better than market rate and they're able to sell that to communities across Thailand at half the price of organic produce, right? Because they're vertically integrating and farmer controlling the food system. That's a food sovereignty policy. That could work in Thailand. It doesn't work in the US because in the US, people don't own land. So Chris Newman of Savanakwa is trying something different using a mosaic of public and private lands, vertical integration, right? And he's trying to find housing models and all this stuff. In Thailand, you don't have to do that, right? So everywhere is nuance and different and we have to have examples that embrace the complexity and nuance of place. So I can't give this thing, but what those have in common is their democratization models. They're returning power into the grassroots. That looks like Masipag in the Philippines, right? Taking control of farmer knowledge and creating whole systems of innovation and academic work, which is all led and designed by the farmers. Advancing agri-ecology and seed breeding and to create genetics that are way better than industrial and academic places, right? Models of farming that are incredible, right? It's lobby accomplicino, organizing peasants around the world to create a massive campaign and political force that the FAO has to bring them in, right? These are all democratization at Bel Horizonte's food policy in Brazil, right? Which brought in rubber tappers and peasants and artisans and created a food policy which guaranteed the right of food for all. It's Cuba and a nap. At the height of the embargo, we're able to survive and amplify academic, I mean, organic food because they use the model based on the liberation theology of accomplicino or accomplicino where peasants identified the problems collectively brainstormed, went home on a 10th of their land to try different innovations. Once that innovation worked, those peasants became the teachers and the community came together and that knowledge spread open source. It's the practical farmers of Iowa who were fed up with the extensionism in the United States who farmers came together and bought and hired extension agents to actually work with the farmers and serve the farmers not the thought academic institution. These are models of power. This is what we have to do. Not one of them works but all of them work in the mosaic of sovereignty. Complex or complexity science systems thinking and you really answered the question with the question almost. It is a world that works for everyone, for everyone. There's no separation or individualization. There's no segregation. There is no racism that that only works for some but not for others. There's no enslavement. It is the form of sovereignty for everyone. It's just like a self-sovereign identification. It's like a basic right. It's not universal basic income. It's a universal type of ecological right. Something that works for everyone with the diversity of cultures, with the diversity of race. We're not gonna solve the world. We're not gonna solve the world's problems today for sure. But I think we're on the right track. I think we are. But I'd love to ask you some questions as somebody who knows this world, right? Somebody who's immersed in it, right? When you see the trends in the food and when you see Regenerative Act, does it address any of this complexity? Yeah. So the answer, it's a mixed answer. I would say no and all because it's, none of these things are the silver bullet, the major bullet. They're a facet of that complexity. They're a facet of the system. So regenerative organics, regenerative agroecology or agroforestry, that is one facet in the food system. It's not the save all. And that's where we make a mistake quite a bit. We say, okay, we need to go plant-based or we need to become vegan.  We're complex human beings. We're operating every single day, 11 major systems of our body and not one of those systems controls the other 10. They're all working in harmony together at the same time, almost gooey or autonomously. The same way is the way that our world works. You can't just take one facet and say that controls us, solves the problem of that. That's phyload linear thinking. We're talking about complexity, science. We're talking about systems thinking. We need to have all those facets, all those systems functioning and running at the same time. That's a complete system and something that works for everyone everywhere. And so that's kind of my answer to that. I think that, yeah, that's nice, but don't get the blinders on and hyper-focus that that's the only way and the true way and the save all because then you're gonna be in a lot of trouble. I know a lot of vegans, they're bad at pale. Their skin looks like hell, they're not living a good life and that's not saving the world. Matter of fact, it's probably doing different or even those people that say, it's only this one thing, that's all we need to do is renewable energy transition. I was just, no, it's not. Our world's much more complex and that quick pitch, the elevator pitch, the short version, the TED talk or the elevator pitch, those don't solve global grand challenges and human suffering. There's complexity, science, thinking and systems addressing all facets of our global grand challenges at the same time. That will come a step closer whereas addressing this exponential growing world, good, bad and ugly that we're living on but also a long-term solutions or better models of civilization frameworks that will nudge us in a much better direction to solve these problems eventually. That's truly what I would believe as a step in the right direction. And I see it like Fritz Hof Capra who does the Capra courses. I see it as the system's view of life. We need to embrace the chaos theory, complexity, science and start thinking and systems because we deal with them. Everything in our world is that way. And so to just break it down to one little facet as the save all, whether it's regenerative or the future of food, new cell, ag, those are all fabulous. They're tremendous but they're only one small facet in the big system. And so if we can down on the peasant level on all levels give people the tools or the knowledge of the bigger system that they're working on and let's do them all at the same time. And I think we'll do more than just pickle the surface so the problem will actually start to make bigger dance or bigger movements steps in the right direction. And that's, I mean, I don't know if that totally answers your question. That's a little bit better. I think it's great when you answer the question you're embracing the complexity but I wonder on top of that, how do we account for a history? How do we account when we're talking about systems thinking like this is what I'm asking you like I jive with everything that you're saying, my friend. I do. But then like where I'm missing is we're not starting from an equitable place. Today isn't the first day. And so where is that involved? And that's why when we have frameworks for solutions if they are ignoring the historical trauma of colonization of enslavement, right? Like if they're ignoring that they're enforcing and empowering the forces that benefited from it, right? And so like when we have any solution out there whether it's plant cell, regenerative, whatever it is if equity isn't built in if those communities that have been historically oppressed aren't seen, recognized, aren't seen in those systems then we're failing. We're not helping anybody. And that's what I'm asking for. Yeah, yeah, that's true. And I love it. I love what you guys are doing. And I think you're definitely on the right path. And I want to support you however I can but I also feel that there's a lot of wisdom and learning to be had for people who I mean, I'm sure it's more than half of my list of the people that were in the groups that we used to move around in. They haven't even thought of that. I mean, when I ask people what's the future or what does the world that works for everyone look like? I have no clue. They're so worried about their basic needs or their daily lives. They can't even think about that. And this is one crazy thing that I talk about all the time. And it's kind of the starting point where most of these discussions we're both white and we're both in developed countries and we're doing pretty good. But I deal a lot with places that aren't.  We don't even, even in the UN is now starting to do it more and more and address that indigenous wisdom and deaths that developed wisdom or that we really need to get into to get out of this Western thinking these weird societies of models that we think it's just a cookie cutter stamp that we can put on the rest of the world. Well, it doesn't work that way. And what I've heard from you, what I really love let's get into that growing culture and that understanding of each individual indigenous culture and area and their foods and the peasantry and how they deal with it to get them in a better system or to support their movement to one that works for us all because I, especially in Thailand and Vietnam and I was, my God, they're the kitchens of the world.  You'll eat like a king. It'll be wonderful that there's, they're not just looking out for themselves. Once they have themselves taken care of and even when they don't have themselves taken care of they always want to be hospitable and give and serve and show new things. That's what those cultures about. It's not in any different. So they've, even when they've been oppressed they're still that way, which is a mindblower in and of itself. Yeah. I have three last questions for you. Cool. And then we're done. And they're really for my listeners. If there was one message that you could depart to my listeners as a sustainable takeaway that has the power to change their life, what would it be? Your message. I love this line that Cesar Chavez said. And he said it when the New York Times sent a reporter to follow him at these rallies that he was organizing. His reporter was there for a few days at the third day or something. He says, how do you explain that here in respect that these farm workers have for you? Blown away, but how much these farm workers love? And he laughed and smiled at her and said, the feeling is mutual. I want people to tap into that and use that lens when they look at the proof system. We've lost that conference and panel article. It's void. It's not inclusive. There's no peasants, there's no farmers, there's no producers. Let's champion that. Let's fight for them. I love it. What should young innovators in your field or activism be thinking about if they're looking for ways to make a real impact? They should be looking at power structures. We started this off and I don't think there's anything more important. Does your innovation, intervention, whatever it is, does it address power? Who is it empowering and who is it disempowering? Think about that. Does this soil machine, right? Who is it putting the information to? Who is it telling what to do? Does it treat these communities as beneficiaries or active innovators, right? What is the frame? Ask yourself these simple, simple questions. And then you can send that article to my mom who reported to me, right? But I don't want to look at them unless they address power. Fabulous. And the last one is, what have you experienced or learned and some of it you brought out also in our discussion but what have you experienced or learned in your professional journey so far, especially your journey around agriculture and dealing with peasants so far that you would have loved to know from the start? That I know nothing and I'm not the hero of my story. I love it. Thank you so much. It's been wonderful. I'm so glad you took the time to speak to me and we could talk for hours. We could get even more passionate and go into more depth and substance. I think we need to have a follow up call very soon and I'd like to also get an update on how some of the different movements and things that you're working on are going. Thank you so much for your time and you have a wonderful day. And if this is your opportunity to say your last words before we say goodbye. Yeah, my last word is fight for people that you don't know. You know, join us, follow us. Like let's do this together. Collaboration is the world's most renewable resource. Love it. And I'll put your links and socials in the description and people can reach out to you and see how they can help in the movement. Thanks so much. I really appreciate it, Lauren. It's been a sure pleasure. Take care. Thank you. All right. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.


Groups and supporters of the national leader of the all-progressive Congress, A.P.C. Bolaq Tinobu, the Nigerian vice-president Yamio Shimbajo, and Kogi state governor Yahya Bello have continued to press home their allegiances and interests for the seat of the president come 2023 election. And this is as these politicians are yet to indicate interests in running for the position. Just interview co xrace the internal politicking among some groups ahead of 2023 elections. A part is internal politicking and campaign for political actors by their supporters is not new, even when the politicians in question have not announced their interest to run for the positions. On August the 27th, 2021, members of a pro-democracy group known as the Progressive Consolidation Group visited Governor Amino Massary of Cassino State to converse for Professor Ymmy O Shebaju's presidency in 2023. The group, however, told Massary that they were not sent by the vice-president. Later on, the group received the approval of the all-progressive Congress to converse support for his imagines as the party's presidential candidate for the 2023 presidential election. Country in their position, another group's south-west agenda, swagger 23, said the Progressive Consolidation were wasting their time as O Shebaju cannot compete with Tunubu in politics. That Tunubu born, anybody can try his own luck. People may be pushing him, he will not push himself. I am confident of that. You don't have to be telling what the president of this country. Our president of today, he will continue to make him the president. He is not because of Tunubu, he will never be the president of this country. Thus got a political analyst Babashola Adebuye talking. He described the cause for both vice-president Yemi O Shebaju and former governor Bola Tunubu to roam for presidency under the platform of the all-progressives Congress as a political game. Adebuye stressed that Bola Tunubu can only be interested in remaining the political Godfather and not the seat of the presidency. On the other hand, there are also groups going in for the Cogistead governor, Yahya Bello, to run for presidency, one of which is Bello for Nigeria Group, that believe the governor has all it takes. Cogistead is a good example of what Nigeria is today. You can make people come together to pursue the same thing, to have the same agenda. You are fit as a leader, a good leader. Yahya Bello has bought this and the same. You cannot look for a new solution to a new generation problem. It's almost impossible. You almost don't get anything done. And on the concerns that the governor is yet to show interest in their request, she said it is inconsequential. Hello. Hope you enjoyed the news. Please do subscribe to our YouTube channel and don't forget to hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates.


Good day, this is Professor Resnick again and today I want to talk about something new and I hope interesting to you all, which is capitalist competition and how capitalist competition can result in relative surplus value, which is the next theme of Marx as presented in Capital Volume 1, which is our reading and the other readings that have been assigned to you. So what we're going to discuss here is capitalist competition, the business cycle again and relative surplus value. And what I want to try and show to you is how capitalist competition is going to shape markets and we're going to get again this this tendency for the economy to decline and the economy to expand. So capitalist competition on one hand is going to produce two different tendencies. On one hand for the economy, the capitalist economy to contract and to get a contraction, that is to get a downturn in capitalism. And on the other hand that very process of market competition is going to set in motion forces that will push the economy into expansion. Okay so let's see what we got here. To do capitalist competition, I'm going to assume the following. We have a variety of different industries across the economy and again I'm going to split them into these two broad kinds, the wage good industries and the means of production industries. And in these various industries I'm going to assume that we have different capitalist firms competing with one another, producing a fairly homogeneous commodity in across these different industries. So let me start. I'll start with the automobile industry as a concrete example. So I'm going to start here with the C and the V and the S and the W for these let's say three capitalist enterprises. General Motors say Honda and Ford. I understand there are many many more but it's enough with just three to show this example. So we have three independent capitalist enterprises operating in the same industry. Don't forget now private enterprise. Okay three different boards of directors that are appropriating the surplus produced by these different laborers in General Motors, Honda and Ford in the so-called automobile industry and I'm going to assume for a moment they're producing a feeling homogeneous product called transport, you know the transportation moving people from one location to another. And they all are alike so I'm going to start with in these magics they all by the same quantum of means of production say four dollars to make life easy for us. Let's assume that a dollar is the same as one hour of abstract labor again. Don't lose that. Okay. If you want it takes one hour to produce a dollar in terms of if you recall that gold is the commodity so it takes one hour to produce an ounce of gold. An ounce of gold is deemed by the state to a dollar. If you bother with that just assume the state implicitly sets the value as one dollar that is as one hour equals one dollar or one dollar equals one hour. That's what this is. So we have here two value of labor power is two dollars or two hours surplus is two and hence the total value of cars is eight dollars and I'm going to assume the number of cars produced is one and I'm going to assume here that the rate of profit the calculated rate of profit then would be two over six, two four six that's a third and the composition of capital that's C over C plus V is four over six, four over six what is that two thirds. Okay. And finally the you put over here the price in this world that is the total value over the things being produced here would be eight. Is that correct? This is 24 divided by 3. Let me erase this here and make it more clean and hence 24 divided by 3 would be 8. That's the price in the system so everybody sells for 8. I think we're ready to go. Suppose let's just take it. Honda you know it's an appropriate example. Suppose Honda takes a private action in the in the enterprise Honda automobile company. The board of directors of Honda decide that they are going to purchase additional means of production the Delta C of say four more four dollars more four more hours. Alright. And I'm going to assume that there's a new technology associated with these means additional means of production that Honda board of directors decides to purchase which is robots. So Honda goes out and purchases four dollars more this becomes eight. Okay. Now you can say well where does that four come from? Well partly it's financed by the surplus value of Honda but partly Honda goes out and borrows money from banks and persuades the bankers a subsume class persuades those bankers to lend Honda the additional money so it can expand the sea or maybe Honda is indoor Honda issues new stock and persuades individuals new stockholders to purchase its stock and so the Honda will have then in this IPO initial public offering will have then additional resources to purchase the seas. You know it goes to the bank so you've got the three broad ways to finance this that that is out of surplus value of Honda borrowing on the market or issuing stock to stockholders new stockholders it gets the additional resources for the Delta C. So 8 10 12 this becomes then an expansion of 12 this becomes 28 and next I'm going to assume that the additional means of production that Honda has employed here allows Honda to produce more cars. So this becomes four. Okay. Let me leave these for the moment or let me leave this the same but let me change this here because Honda has increased its its index of mechanization. So it now is 8 over 10 so this has become a bigger number it went from 0.67 to 0.8 and in your reading Mark spends a lot of time discussing this mechanization the the during that this period of time that in which he's writing in which capitalist firms firm after firm across the different capitalist industries are becoming more mechanized and one way to look at that is that their ratio of C to C plus fee is rising very rapidly as they are purchasing more machines and as I said in barring new technologies. Okay the final one I want to put on the board now is this one here it's the average cost of a business so that would be C plus V divided by UV. So initially we have for General Motors that would be six dollars divided by one six for Ford because they're similar and it was six dollars for Honda but now it's a smaller number ten divided by two so Honda has become as a result of purchasing more C and raising its productivity it has become the least cost producer in this industry no matter as we're going to see in a moment so let me summarize what we've got here okay as a result of Honda's private action it's become the least cost producer it's raised its composition of capital okay as in doing that so one message is a capitalist that can become the least cost producer the lowest average cost by raising its composition of capital and I'm assuming here okay that Honda did increase its C so it went out and it raised the C its cost went up but the denominator increased proportionally more so that the ratio the average cost fell and that's the the subsumed class of managers in Honda has to make that calculation and persuade the bankers and our stockholders that they should provide the resources because the average cost will fall allowing Honda to become the least cost and we're going to see what that's going to deliver to Honda in a particular moment next okay as a result of this the price of a car has fallen from 8 to what it was to now 7 okay so the the new price of a car is 28 divided by 4 the price has become 7 let's examine that for a moment okay what's this 28 where does this come from well this is the total value general motors produces one car at 8 Ford produces one car for 468 and Honda now produces two cars at the unit value per car 12 divided by 2 that's 6 okay so if I did this right it's 12 20 28 divided by the number of cars 2 3 4 so this is a weighted average it's an average and the 7 once again is the socially necessary abstract labor time to produce a car and what it averages over as you can see this goes back to several lectures the concrete labor of each of these private capitalist produces GM Honda and Ford in this particular industry this or this is the weighted average that's what a socially necessary abstract labor time is in this this example I'm giving you giving you of the concrete labor's averaged over all the different quantities of produced in this particular industry so for the private time the social clear is 7 7 7 okay so that's the the social in this particular industry but the private time is different the private time here is 8 6 8 so we have a divergence okay in this example which is one of things we want to show a divergence between the private and the social general motors and and the Ford are above the social whereas Honda because of its offense offensive action that is raising its productivity is below the social all the firms come to market I'm assuming a competitive industry that means everybody sells at the same price okay the assumption of competition one market one price they all sell for seven dollars or seven hours okay they have no choice that's what competition means the market dictates the price so everybody sells for this socially necessary abstract labor time of seven dollars or seven hours so let me then put on the board a new table okay let me I'm gonna race this and get a new table going here let me just remind us put this seven here here I have the revenue general motors


INEC figures indicate 44.4 million women will vote in the 2023 elections, even as Nigerians drum support for female candidates across various political parties. And tonight we discuss with INEC's head of Vulture Education and Publicity in Lagos, a dedicated Tadeche, as the Commission begins distribution of sensitive election materials nationwide. This is Plus Politics, I am Mary Anna Cohen. The Independent National Electoral Commission, INEC, has said that 93,469 registered voters out of 93 million, I beg your pardon, 469,008 registered voters, 44 million females are voting in this year's general elections. There has been a gender gap between the men and the women, especially in political representation, economic management, education and leadership, even women are particularly underrepresented in processes and disproportionately excluded from consultations that affected them. Now hence, the need for Nigerians to drum up support for female candidates across the various political parties in the forthcoming elections. Joining us on this female round table talking about women in politics, I am being joined by Oduonla Ogundikeishi, is the Social Democratic Party Women Leader, Southwest. We also are being joined by Olufunke Omolara Awolowo, she is the Deputy Chairperson of Lagos State Exco of the Labour Party. We are also being joined by Aisha Hamann, a Legal Practitioner and a member of the NNPP and finally we also have Kemi Asekun, she is a member of the APC, PCC Media and Publicity. Thank you so much ladies for joining us and good evening. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. It's so good to have you join us. I'm going to start with the guests in the studio. Let's talk about the Labour Party and female representation because of course we know that there's been an abysmal participation in sensitive politics for women even though we make up 50% of the population. But then I realise that the Labour Party does have a female chairman in Lagos and then you are the Deputy Chairperson so that means that there seems to be a bit more room for women to progress. But let's start with the grassroots. Why do you think it's been so difficult for women to be at par with men when it comes to political parties? This is something that is all over, even in America, everywhere you go, there's been, I don't know, a resistance of some sort to allow women into politics and most of the time is that I must admit that most men are intimidated when women get into power. Someone did say that especially in the police force and the aim is that the women in the force, they're more rugged, they're more assertive and more wicked because of the role of the people. You see women, seriously, when you think of the suffragettes in Britain and America, you realise that women do things with a lot of passion and most of the time when a woman seems to be doing better than the male folk or the husband, there's a kind of jealousy that erupts and it always, nearly, always ends the marriage and all that. And so you see women preaching against women saying you should stay, you should underplay whatever it is, the potentials you carry and that has been the psyche for a while. You see even in the, because I worked a bit in the banking sector and insurance sector, you see that women are more, should I say, frugal because what we have today, I'm not the one to advocate women against men, but what you have today has been solely based on the carelessness, the extremities of men in corruption and you see- You're saying that if we have more women in the decision making, even at the highest level of political parties, we probably will have less problems that we're having, especially now during elections? Exactly, because we intend to have more intuition from what I'm a pastor as well and we do a lot of counselling and marriage and you see that nearly almost extreme competition between couples, especially when that woman is, you know, surging and forging her head in the marriage. And so men are mostly intimidated and that's why socially, men, women have had to sacrifice their potentials for the sake of the men, but it's not happening anymore, we're not going to allow it because it has really, in turn, crippled society, so to speak. So you see a redress of what has been and women are rising, you know, especially when women were very futuristic, you're thinking what will happen to the oncoming generations by soon? And you see that a lot of our children, they live in the country, why? Because things are not so well and no mother will look on and let that happen. And so we are getting more involved. We are getting, I remember, was it during Ansar's and I was home one of those days and my son said, Mo, where are you? I said, where are you home when everybody is out on the streets? So you see, for the sake of our children, we must be out there and we must get involved. Okay. Let me go to Udora, Udora is of the SDP. She talked about the Ansar's movement and as we see from the statistics that INEC is giving us 49.5 million men and 44.4 women are going to be voting on the weekend. So let me ask, do you think that maybe the Ansar's movement, just as she said, has pushed more women towards political parties? Because again, as she said, society and some of the things, the narrative that we've had over the years has kept women away from participating in the electoral process, especially joining political parties. Okay. Thank you so much. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Okay. Thank you so much. I would say that is correct. The reason being that the role of us women in governance cannot be over emphasized. And in the sense that women in politics, governance are unified, we, like where I am now, I would say I needed to get this thing done and it's not convenient, it's not comfortable. I just left the bush and I'm going to another place. So please, some conflict resolution among actors, we are not, our role in politics cannot, like I said, can never be over emphasized. We, I remember the Ansar's, we were, if you, the percentage of women, then there were more, there were many. We cannot just sit down at the fence and be looking at, like the lady said, we can be sitting there in the house and be looking at what would they bring to the table, where we generally bring a bigger picture of issues. And I think that was exactly what happened during the issue of the end cells. We in governance, we are political, we are so, we are emotional intelligence when it comes to us. We cannot, you cannot emphasize us where emotional intelligence, there are so many factors you can, when it comes to women, there are so many factors you can bring in. Our population, like she said, is more because of majority of what is happening in the country, we can't be at the fence. So that's what I can say about that. Aisha, let me, let me speak to you, Aisha is of the NMPP. Women they say are mobilizers and these men who are of the boys club who mostly are the ones who are flag bearers when it comes to allotting these positions to them. Come to you when they need you to mobilize and galvanize your likes to come for the campaigns and to go to the door to door to appeal to people. The women are the ones they come to. And then half the time women hold a certain position, either they are the women leader or they are the treasurer. Why do you think that that is the case till today?  Well, for me, I would say that it's an African thing. We believe women belong to a particular place in the home. But I am glad that civil society organizations, the public sector and even the international organizations are advocating for women to participate in politics. And as we know, apathy has always been the winner of elections by omission. You know, I don't know about the South because my party, the NNPP has picked a running meat for a governor, a governorship candidate in oil states. This was recently, that was in August last year. We are trying to see how we can balance it. But it's a thing in the north that women have already been stereotyped to just be wives and mothers. And I think that is the reason why we already feel defeated, that we are not supposed to be seen or heard. And I would like to say that as a woman rights activist and as a lawyer, I have always pushed for, I've always fought for the rights of women. I have always advocated for women to participate, not just in politics, but in every other aspect of life when it comes to work and career. So I think we need to do more of advocacy and we need to also make people, uplift people by creating mentor-mentee relationships so that these women can thrive. Interesting. Kemi, we see that with the APC, you have a young, friendly face for the women leader and I think she's from Cross River State, my state. But then what do you think women will bring that will change the game? Yes, we know that these elections are going to be changed by young people, but those young people also consist of young men and women.  Very good evening to you, Marianne, and thank you for the invite. Big shout out to everyone else who's here.  And as a matter of fact, the women leader in the APC used to be the head of the commissioners for health across Nigeria. But that aside, with the APC, we do understand that women have a special place and they hold a special place, you know. And that's why in besides the presidential campaign council of the APC, we also have the presidential campaign team, which is predominantly made of women, hundreds of women from across the nation, you know, who believe in the candidacy of Ashwa Jibola and Metin Umbu, and his running mate, Senator Kashim Shatema. And because we know that women, you know, especially when it comes to election, whatever you give to a woman, she multiplies. We know that the women are more than capable of delivering the votes is why besides the PCC, we also have the PCT, okay, which is basically women, women, women who are going down to the grassroots, they've done their homework for me and for the APC. I do know that candidates has never taken women for granted. If you look at it, even his wife, you know, he allowed her the opportunity to also fly as a politician, and she's been in the Senate for quite a while, and she's been doing very well at that. All right. The candidates of the APC, Ashwa Jibola and Metin Umbu, was the first person since 19, in this dispensation of our democracy to start the Ministry of Women Development that was headed by the leadership, Kemi Nelson. So as a matter of fact, for us in the APC, we're not just waking up to the fact that women are important and women need to participate in elections. We beyond allowing them that participation, we also give them opportunities. We also allow them express themselves fully, all right, to be able to show their capacity. And that is what the candidates, Ashwa Jibola and Metin Umbu, typifies. Okay. Let me come back to you. There's a saying that women are their own problems. In other words, there's not that, we talk about sisterhood, but we say it, you know, but in action, we hardly see that, because you mentioned earlier on that half the time women are the ones who say, oh, women should not be out there, politics is, you know, it's nasty, because I'm wondering how many people would want to go for those two AM meetings who are married because half the time they're asking you, where's your husband? Where are your children? Let's talk about women supporting women. I always use the example of the lady who was running for president and she barely had any votes because we hardly saw women, you know, standing behind her. Women lined up behind the men. What do women in the year 2023 need to do that? What do they need to borrow from the boys club to be able to support other women? Because you see, they're running for almost the same offices that men are running for, but the men always find a way to rally around themselves. How do we break through this, you know, glass ceiling for us to be able to start supporting one another? Thank you.  And so that has weakened, you know, the pole for women, generally.  And once you touch a woman's child and that is now the plight that we're going through, you know, we saw the bloodshed. I keep on seeing answers, but over the years, we've seen children turn to drug addiction, turn to third-grade, turn because the society is not providing much. So let's take answers out. The society has really failed our children. And that is an impetus for any woman to think and act and come out out of their shells. So what are the women because you see, I'm going to emphasize on your party, the SDP has two women at the helm of affairs in Lagos. How are you going to capitalize on that? I think the lady from the SDP or the NMPP talks about mentoring. How many of these other young women are you mentoring because you have to make it look comely for them to participate? First of all, I want to go back to our party. We have a deputy governor that is very strong, very active. Our name is Princess Oye Fusi. She's a very strong woman and she's been doing women advocacy for a while. If you go to Pital B's government, there were a lot of women. He's the one that is very gender-friendly, you know, once you have the potential. So we're not just saying because they're women or because they're women who are strong, who have desires and who want to touch and change their society. And these women are coming out. These women are stronger in their even representation. I'm one of them. I'm here. I used to be a presidential candidate of a party, even though I stepped down because I was not particularly ready. It's not because I'm a woman. So you see, that's it.  That's the question every woman needs to ask. And when we ask that and it's answered positively, then we can hold hands together and walk it out in Nigeria. OK.  It's interesting. I'm still going to be talking about this issue of support. It's interesting to me because most people, when you talk about women in politics and why we should support more women for political parties who throw them up for these offices, they tell you that, oh, what good examples can we point to? How many of these women have gone there and made us proud? And they always make references to the likes of the former Speaker Patricia Ite. They make reference to the former Aviation Minister, the former Minister of Petroleum Alison Madureke. And of course, whether we like it or not, these are real examples. And so what are the other examples that we can point to women who have made us proud in politics? OK. Thank you so much for that question. First, I'm going to say that we can say that the Nigerian of our Nigerian today, more than two dispensations now, we had the female ministers of finance. And in my party, my principal is a woman. She was the first woman. She was the first majority woman in the woman and in the House of in the House of Rep for 80 years. I have never been any woman like that. She was the first woman in the House of Rep. And moreover, I would say it was even because of I've seen a lot in the larger money cat on the other. And that was the main reason why I said yes, when we left PDP, because we actually left PDP to SDP. And I decided to say, OK, I'm going to follow this woman because she's more or less like an example to major to a lot of women out there. There's that we should put if you have them to put it in on the book to check the first female leader in the House of Rep. A larger money cat at the other. Apples to be the first person. So I would say, and like I said, the minister of finance as well. So I would say when it comes to that, we have a long way to go. We we have not even we have not even reached. We've just started the role of women is not something you can over if I said, I'll keep I will keep talking about the that because we have a long way to go.  A lot of women coming out. I want to do this. They want to do that. And more or less, I'm also a founder of a company and it's not as if we don't have a work. We don't have a job. We have a lot of things that is on ground. But we decided to say, OK, let's move if this is what politics is all about, let's move. And we're pushing it as it is now at eight o'clock. I've not I'm not even in Vegas. I'm not in I mean, I'm in a village. And I'm enjoying it because we want to want to bring a lot of things to the table for men to see where more accountable to a lot of things where we're very flexible. So the role of us is not our role is not something we can over emphasize. Thank you. Actually, elections are on Saturday and preparations are on. INAG has received sensitive materials, etc., etc. And there are, of course, people who are excited to be part of this election. We're having people in diaspora come into the country who want to vote. And this are also men and women. We are having first time voters, people who have lived in this country for years, not because they just turned 18, but because they've never really felt the need to vote, but they're voting for the first time. Are we how has the NNPP led the charge? I mean, I'm talking about women in the NNPP, led the charge of making sure that the average woman shows up to the polling units, whether they support your party or not. How what is the level of sensitization? Because, you know, we're always saying that INAG and the NRA have the job of voter education. But then the owners is on political parties who are asking for vote. Well, thank you very much for that question. And if you check the NNPP, it's a party that has gathered a lot of people, especially our principal, Dr. Rabiu Musa Komposou. He's loved by many people. And myself as a person, I have seen friends of mine that are one organization, for example, Yaga Africa. And there are so many organizations that have been sensitizing people. My own organization, we do voter education. We've been doing that since last year, June. We've been going to grassroots communities. And because we have social media now, it's very important that we carry everyone along. So we have been sensitizing people when it comes to how to vote, how to use the ballot, how to do your verification and all of that. The party is really doing a lot. We're doing a lot. And if you look at the social media statistics, for example, you'd see that it's not just men that are supporting the candidate of the party. Even the social media groups that we have, most of them are women. We have about 60% of people that are doing advocacy on TikTok, selling our candidates, on TikTok, on Facebook, on Twitter, on Instagram that are females and young people. So NNPP is a party of women and the youths. Because even if you look at the Conquersia, the Conquersia movement, their objectives, one of their objectives is to empower women and push them to thrive and reach their fullest potential. So we have really tried. Interesting. Let me come to our APC, PCC media and publicity guests. Cammy, tell me why any young woman or any woman should vote for the APC? Again, we're not looking at just this election. Going forward, why should anybody look at the APC and support it in terms of gender and of course, inclusion? Cammy, can you hear me? I think you're muted, Cammy. I think I muted my mic. All right, go ahead. Yes. Can you hear me now? Yes, I can. Okay, let me start by saying that some of the things that some of the parties are trying to do now, the APC has already taken care of. The APC has a Progressive Women Academy for young women who want to learn about politics and they are being mentored. It's something that they can just go online, register. There are courses. If they need to be attached to a mentor, they will be. So there's already the mentor-mentee relationship for women in the APC because we understand that the average other parties, for example, will not give women that opportunity. We know that the women have a way of contributing to politics that men may not have. Another beautiful thing about the APC is that while some people will say no external meetings for men, most of our meetings are held during the day. We attend, we're done and we move. And no woman is left behind in the APC. So that is what differentiates us. Can I just ask you something? I'm so sorry because you brought this up. So why do the men have the meetings nocturnally and then you have to have it in the day and quickly go home? What about those nocturnal meetings? No, what I meant to say is that now the APC has most of their meetings during the day. Yeah, we barely have been to a meeting today, a political meeting today. I'm done, I'm back in my house. And that's fine for me. The APC particularly has something for women. The APC gives women opportunities. And that's one, and it's not just women. If you look at the statistics of the age of our women leader, Dr. Betah Edu, she's not even 40 yet, okay? And she is the woman leader. Most of the other parties, if you check out their women leader, they are aged, you know, they barely have energy. And then they really do not come together with some of the young people in the party, all right? But having someone like Dr. Betah Edu as our APC women leader makes her very accessible to the young, to the middle age, and to the old. But why again, should women, you know, support our party? Women should support our party because our candidate himself, as you all have mentioned, is one who believes in women. He gives women opportunities. One of the ways you can testify to that is the fact that his first deputy was a woman, Mrs. Coferola Bucknell. Now, even in Gopnofashuala's government, his first deputy, Gavno, was a woman. Princess ADPC, Sarah Choson. His second deputy, Gavno, was a woman. Princess Orelokwe Adifulure.  In the APC, for example, we deliberately fish out women, the white type of women, give them the right opportunities and ensure. Oh dear, Kemi, I think we lost that connection with you for a second there. But if you can hear me, can you hear me, Kemi? It's unfortunate, we lost that connection with Kemi. I'm going to come back to you because we still have a little time to talk. Some of the researches that have been done about women's participation in politics and political parties in Nigeria, boiled down to, you know, their capacity, financial capacity. The men always have money, but the women hardly have the monies. So sometimes they still have to rely on men to be able to make those, to get the monies to either, sometimes the tickets have to be, the monies to pay for the tickets or intent forms have to be slashed for women.  So let's talk about financing the average woman in political parties.  Yeah. That sounds good. Yes. You know, politics has been solely based on finances for a while now. And that's why LP, Labour Party, is now so relevant because you are seeing a movement that is saying, I think that's an inverted slogan, saying no shishi. And really, you know, you really don't have to have money. Once you can agitate, maybe play with your phone and say, this is who I am.   I've always had that from my school days. And I was, you know, at a function and I met this guy, he kept on engaging me. Okay, what do you think? And he said, can you come for a meeting? So you see, once we are a voice, once you are speaking out, somebody eventually will pick out that potential. And like today, with no shishi, we are very relevant in politics. And if things were the way they should be, you know, this movement will never have come into being, you know, we are at the height because women are seeing greater opportunities to be involved. The youth, they're getting involved and it's not about money at all. It's about the voice. It's about being able to reason and speak into the heart of the matter. Let me come back to the SDP. What are the things that we, the SDP can do going forward to empower women? Because I talked about the research, mostly talking about monies, talking about economic empowerment for the women. What we hear about these empowerment programs, whether it be the APC that's in government or the PDP, we hear about these empowerment programs. But half the time, do these empowerment programs really empower the people? Or are they just monies that are being handed out or rice and wrapper? And how do we try to, you know, take those things out of the way and deal with the issues that need to be dealt with? Okay, thank you so much for the question. Let me first say that our precedent at the Social Democratic Party based on the way everybody is a successful businessman at Hexton. It's been in politics for more than a decade. And it's a man endowed with ideas to help our great nations to regain its lost glory. I would say with that alone, we are ready to move on. Women, when it comes to that, it's not something that I'm trying to look at and add it to by what I just said. One thing I think that's very important is that the women as they were raised by you, is working. I would say in Hexton, we have more of women than men and if we act each and everyone of them, they will tell you how it relates with each and everybody ready to, we've lost, we've lost glory in Nigeria. I'm so sorry to say it. It's not something that can be done in a matter of one, one month, two months, even a year, even two years. But when you have somebody like Prince Adewalia that is ready to sit down, you didn't look at us as who are we to, who are we to tell him what to do. I think with that we're ready to move. It's not, it's just a matter of time. Okay. We're going to take a quick break. We're still talking with women. Of course this is a women's round table and we have represented here the APC, the Labour Party, the SDP and of course we have the NNPP. We'll be right back after the break to still continue the conversation. Stay with me. We're still being joined in the studio by Odunola Ogundigi Ogundikbe. She is the Social Democratic Party Women Leader, Southwest Olufunke Omolara Awolowo, Deputy Chairperson, Lagos State Exco for the Labour Party. We're also being joined by Aisha Haman, a legal practitioner and a member of the New Nigeria People's Party, NNPP and we also have Kemi Asekonshi is the member, APC, PCC Media and Publicity. Once again, thank you so much ladies for being here. I haven't had so many ladies on set with me in such a long time. So this is a great opportunity. But before we went on that break, I was talking about how women can support women going forward. But let's talk about your political parties and the politics that's going on. Of course, elections are around the corner and this is an opportunity to market your presidential candidates to whoever is listening. But then yesterday the APC, I'll stop with the APC, the APC had their campaign rally here in Lagos State and we saw the Mr. President also participating. Now we've also seen all of the politicking and the drama that surrounded the whole campaign season. A lot of people would say that the reason why Nigerians are suffering right now, don't forget where we dealt with fuel crisis before then, insecurity, kidnapping. It came so close, all the way close to Lagos. You know, sometimes when we hear about this insecurity in the Northeast, it seems a bit far-fetched until it begins to come home. Why should the average person who wants to vote for the APC for any reason? And we also know the Ganyar cash crunch, the average person would say that they're very angry and they're not necessarily just angry at the president, but they're angry at the APC. Why should anybody vote for you? I would say here that any right-thinking person, and that's not resorting to insults, right, would vote for the APC. And here is why. Firstly, the APC is the first party in Nigeria to give back to Nigeria from what it has taken. And I'm talking about the investments that the APC has made in social programs, the investment the APC has made in infrastructure, in everything. We inherited the cup. Would you care to explain some of those things? Because you can't say everything, we want details. What infrastructure? Sir, would I care to explain what? What infrastructure has the APC invested in? Your voice is freezing. Yes. Okay, let me give you a quick breakdown. For the first time in Nigeria, people like receiving conditional cash transfer, for the first time in Nigeria, young people who are able to enroll with the end power were able to get jobs for a while, right? And they were able, some of them were trained to be able to get into different strata of society. Now, for the first time in Nigeria, we have a government that is giving back to the country in terms of infrastructure rail. You would recall that when the PDP, when we're talking about rail during the PDP, a member of the Labor Party today who has stepped aside as the chief campaign person for Peter Orby, did say that it is impossible for Nigerians to get brand new trains. The APC changed all of that and that came at a cost. The unfortunate thing about many Nigerians is that perhaps because we take instant noodles today, people feel that development and growth comes at an instant. And that's not how it is. Development and growth takes a while. Sorry. I'm so sorry. Everybody has one minute each because we have to go. I'm going to skip you and go. Oh, but you keep cutting me. I'm sorry. We don't have time. I'm going to go to the NNPP. Why should we vote for the NNPP? I mean, we've seen all the polls that have been coming through and your presidential candidate is not top three. What's his chances and why should we vote for him? Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to market our time to lose. You know, they say we shouldn't because of all the things that we've been through in Nigeria. I mean, everybody can feel it. The reason why I support Dr. Rabi Musa Komposo is because of his antecedents. The things that he has done, the track record in his 100 days in office, that was from 1999, the first tenure that he was governor in Kano State. He has established 20 poverty alleviation programs. He did school of nursing. He did school of fishery. If you check his 100 days in office, there's a book and you can check on the website. These are things that he achieved. He has empowered people with education and that's why we call him Mr. Education. And I think if you would give me more time, I would list every single thing that Mr. Rabi Musa Komposo, Dr. Rabi Musa Komposo has achieved in just the 100 days he has done in office from 1999. Because we don't have time, I'm going to rush this through. Let's quickly give everybody else a little time. I'm going to go to the SDP and then, of course, we'll come back to the studio to wrap up because we're almost out of time. Quickly. Thank you. Thank you so much for this opportunity and I'm going to say it in mind. I'll speak with the voice of my President, Prince Adewale Adebaio. That's what I want to do is replace the branch of politicians who are going to the villa to collect their campaign reward with a functioning government. Thank you. All right. Interesting. And that was very short. And then let's come to the Labour Party. You seem to be the new bride. Yeah, let's go. Is there a cause, is there a reason for us to look for merit in the leader?  You know, in the Bible, they said there will be a time money will fail. And I don't think the time has come, but Nigeria has bit the time, you know, and we are seeing Emmanuel saying, I'm going to take you from mere consumption to production. When we produce, then money comes in and that money is legitimate and it will cost us to grow. Right now, money is being shared in corruption in such decadence and Nigeria is being crippled and put in a halt. And therefore there's a need for a leader with a good attitude and the right spirit and psyche to change the nation. Thank you. Okay. Well, I want to say, I want to say thank you to all this wonderful women who have been here with me in the studio tonight. I want to say thank you to all my guests from the APC, the SDP, the NNPP, and of course the Labour Party. I would like to say thank you to Ogunola Ogundipe. Can I get her name correctly? She is the SDP woman leader, Southwest. Ogunola Ogunola Ogunola. Yeah, I will pay a fine for that. Ogunola, thank you so much for being here. Olufunkel Malara is the Deputy Chairperson of Lagos State Exco Labour Party. Thank you so much for being here. Aisha Hamman is a legal practitioner and a member of the NNPP. Thank you Aisha for being here. And of course, Kemi Ashekel is the member, APC, PCC Media and Publicity. Also a pleasure. Thank you so much, ladies. This was really interesting. Thank you. Thank you so much. And that's the show tonight, but in preparation for the Presidential and National Assembly elections scheduled for February 25th, the Independent National Electoral Commission, INEC, has commenced distribution of sensitive electoral materials to its local government offices in Cross River, Calabar, and some other states. INEC already has started sending election materials to the right places as of Wednesday, the 22nd of February 2023. Now, we call that on Monday INEC had in a dosage disclosed that it will commence the distribution of sensitive electoral materials to its local government offices on Wednesday. Well, thank you all for being here. We will talk tomorrow again. Don't forget, from tomorrow's three days to the elections, if you have your PVC, get ready. Find out where your polling unit is and make sure that you come out and vote. My name is Mary Ann O'Connor. Have a good evening.