I was talking with a dear client of mine before she became a client. We had this exploratory call and I was explaining to her, I mean, she was noticing that in my marketing, I don't promise results. I know that's unusual because you may have learned from mainstream marketing that you're supposed to promise results. Oh, if you work with me, you're gonna get this problem solved. You're gonna get that issue healed. You're gonna be able to reach that goal.  So that is how marketing is usually seen, isn't it? The used car salesman technique, right? Used lots of hype and promises. And that's what this client experienced before she came to me. She had worked with other business coaches who had promised her piles of cash, you know, lots of money by using their methods. And when their methods didn't work for her, she blamed herself. She said, you know, it's not the coach's fault. I didn't, I probably didn't do something right. Well, I know that this client is hardworking, that appears to me and I don't think it was her fault. The problem with mainstream marketing is that we learn that we're supposed to get people to buy from us as soon as possible. Like even on the first experience of us, they should be buying from us right away. So that's why you often see sales and marketing being so pressure-driven. There's so much hype because they are measuring the conversion rate based on every campaign, every touch of the audience is supposed to somehow convert people to buying. Or let's even say that the marketing is a little bit more brand focused and relationship focused and they create free and helpful content. And then they have a sales message to say, all right, now it's time to buy. And they measure the success of that sales message based on the number of conversions. Conversions is an interesting word, isn't it? It is from the religious context of turning someone into a religious person, bringing someone into your religion. That is conversion. And that's what marketers have taken as the normal language of taking someone from not being a client or customer to being a client or customer, the process of conversion. Traffic and conversion, that's what we're supposed to focus on, isn't it? Well, let me give you, as you can imagine, a different way through. Because I have also done the same thing in the past. I learned from the mainstream marketers. That's how I started, because I didn't know any better.  So I figured I should promise that too. And the whoever promises in the most convincing way wins. Now, the reality, especially if you have worked with clients, you know that the reality is that you really can't promise anything authentically with integrity. Why? Because it's not up to you, the provider, the business owner, to make results in their life. For example, I'll do a very, very simple example. Let's say someone is dying of thirst in the desert and you sell them some water. Are you going to promise this water, you will be cured of thirst if you buy my water? That's not true, technically, because if they don't open the bottle and drink the water, they will still die of thirst. That's a very simplistic example, but you know that's the case with your own clients too, isn't it? If you can talk to them all day, all night, you can demonstrate your way of solving their problem, you can give them all the resources that you think they need, but if they don't make changes in their own behavior, in their own thoughts, in their own actions, their life is probably not going to change. And so therefore they don't get any results. So none of us can really, it doesn't matter if you're selling a product or a service, if the customer, first of all, if the customer isn't the right fit for the product, then it doesn't even matter if they use the product, they're not the right fit, they don't have the right problem or they don't have the goal that the product was designed to help them with, it doesn't matter. So it has to be a right fit, number one. Number two, they have to use the product or service in the way that it was designed to and for long enough for their problem to likely, not always, see, that's the thing. Even if someone's the right fit and they use the product or service in the right way, there might be other factors that we cannot plan for. Some other, there may be genetic factors, there may be family factors, societal factors, the moon and the stars, who knows? Economic, whatever the case, we can only go so far as service providers and as product providers. We give them the product and the instructions and the help, however they need. And then it's up to them to do what they can. And even if they do everything right, it doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna get the results. Like I said, there are many unknown factors. We can do our best, but that's it. So back to the idea. You cannot with integrity promise results. So what can we do? Here's what I do. Instead of promising results, I promise my clients four things. I promise them my best care. Okay, let me actually start from the beginning of the list because there's actually a method to this and I'm looking at my notes here. So I'm getting it right. I promise them my content, meaning here are the ideas that I have discovered to work for myself and the people and many, not all, but many of the people who use these ideas, these seem to work. I promise them my best content, my clients. I promise them my structure. So if you join my program, if you work with me, not only will you get my content, you also get this process, this structure with which to apply the content instead of just a random jumble of ideas. It's like, okay, step one, step two, step three, maybe there's support calls, et cetera. Number three, so one is content. Two, I promise structure. Number three, I promise my care. I will show up to my structure. The structure is where I meet with my clients, whether it's in Q&A calls, coaching calls, an online forum where I answer questions, a document where I answer, whatever it is, the structure is there to support them through the transformational process. I promise my care that I will show up authentically, consistently with integrity into the structure. I will care as much as it is sustainable to care. So I care within my structure. And this is something that I think probably some of you need to learn how to do better. Is to promise your care, but to do it within a sustainable structure for yourself. A sustainable structure is very important for the client too, because if you are not sustainable, then you can't continue providing your best to them. So you have to be sustainable in the way you provide your care, and then your clients can continue to be served by the structure that you provide. So one is content, two is structure, three is care, and four, I promise my community. If they, for example, join my group program, I promise them that they will have peers that are mutually supportive, that they can collaborate with, that they can find accountability buddies, that they will find the kind of partner or small team support that they need to, that they won't find elsewhere, right? So, well, they might find elsewhere. I don't promise that this is the only place. I just promise that there is a community I've created that I believe in that people seem to find helpful, right, et cetera. So that is what I promise to people. Now, here's taking it to the next level. The more the person trusts you, the less you need to promise, and they'll still sign up. It's true. The more there has been deep trust developed, the less you have to say, well, you're gonna get this and you're gonna get that and this is gonna be so great, right? Because if they trust you a lot, then you can simply say, okay, what I understand is this is what you're wanting. Well, this is what I have. The more you can just simply whisper and they will sign up. And that's what I've discovered over the years is if I work on developing trust with you all, then if and when you are ready, if my product does the right fit, all I do is whisper and I whisper once a month. As you know, probably if you follow my Facebook business page, I whisper in my email list, I whisper once a month, hey, here's my upcoming course. If you're looking for this, if you're wanting that, well, that's how I've designed this thing to help people who are wanting this kind of thing. I don't promise results. I just say I have developed a structure and content to address these kinds of issues and goals, to address them. That's it, it's up to you what you want. So you'll see me whispering once a month and I get plenty of clients from my whispers because I have developed trust over the years. So let me explain, how do we develop trust over the years? How do we develop trust such that all we need to do is whisper rather than shout? That's how most marketing feels to us. Especially those of us who are more sensitive, right? Marketing feels like it is shouting or it is trying to be persuasive. It's trying to be charming. It's trying so hard or it's sometimes it's not, it doesn't appear to be trying hard and we get sucked into it. But when we study it, we know that in the backend, they've tried really hard to charm us, to persuade us to hypnotize us into buying. And that's not what I feel is needed to be done. I don't do that because I realized that if I show up authentically with a helpful intention again and again and again, then naturally trust is developed. And that's what I hope for you as well. If you show up consistently with an authentic presence and with a genuine helpful intention, again and again and again, trust is naturally developed. And when there is trust, you have an audience and that audience, you can talk with them to find out what you should sell to them. Well, I talk about this all the time, the process of audience research, right? You build an audience with authentic content and then you do your audience research to find out what you should sell to them. And then step three, you sell it to them. It's really that simple, not that it's easy because we know what's not easy. Showing up consistently is not easy, especially in the beginning when nobody's watching, when hardly anybody is listening or reading. That's the hard part. Now, if you learn how to distribute your content, I teach it in my Facebook ads class, Instagram class, LinkedIn, I teach all these distribution methods in my courses but if you show up consistently with your authentic presence, you distribute that to the right people, you do it again and again, you develop a trusting audience and that trusting audience, if you talk with them in audience research, they will tell you what they want you to sell. And if you sell what they want you to sell and they trust you, of course, they're going to buy. It's not rocket science, thankfully. It's simply human relationship development and meeting human wants through commerce. That's all business is and the authenticity part we bring to it is that we are not trying to persuade people at all. There's no need for persuasion, psychology at all. Let me say that again, you don't need to learn persuasion, psychology, you don't need to learn copywriting, except, well, unless you want to do it authentically, I actually am going to be teaching an authentic copywriting class because a lot of you are asking for it. So I'm giving you what you want but you'll notice in the copywriting class that it's not about making them desire something. It's not about making them want to buy. It's about being clear. It's about being of integrity and it's about answering the questions that they are wondering about, right?  It is a natural process of getting clients. So I hope that this is helpful. I hope that this inspires you to not have to do the mainstream marketing methods anymore of using hype, promising the sun and the stars and the moon and piles of cash or the love of their life or whatever it is that you might help people with and simply decide to show up again and again authentically. And by the way, the deepest benefit that you're gonna get from showing up authentically again and again is not that you'll get more clients, you will. Well, I can't promise you that, all right? But the natural cycle is geared in that direction, right?  And when you trust yourself, that is actually the holy grail. When you trust yourself and your capabilities because you've seen yourself show up with that content again and again and again, it's a very natural step that the audience trusts you too. Not only are they seeing you again and again, but there is something about your energy signature that resonates with authentic confidence. And the authentic confidence only happens when you've learned to trust yourself based on the evidence of your actions, of showing up consistently again and again and again. All right, well, send you forward now to go ahead and do that, okay? And I hope this is inspiring for you, I hope this is helpful. Always open to your comments and your questions below. My name is George Kau for those of you who don't know me. I'm an authentic business coach. What that means is I love to help clients with showing up again and again and again and using an overall strategy that not only gets them clients, but also develops themselves. So all right, I wish you well and I'll see you in the next video. Take care.


And again, it's another episode of the nonprofit show. We are thrilled that you are here, but I'm even more thrilled because I get to get, have one of the rock stars of the publishing sector, Andrea Evans with us today. She is the publisher of front doors, media and the co-founder of the center for positive media. So I can't wait to delve into these things, exciting things and new doors that she's opening. Andrea, this is going to be a super, super cool conversation because this is at the heart of the success for so many nonprofit events. So I can't wait to hear what you have to say and to have you share your wisdom. If we haven't met before, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American nonprofit Academy. My intrepid co-host, Jared Ransom, if you've been watching us for the past two days, bless her heart. She has been at the AFP conference in Las Vegas, broadcasting live doing our very first remote and she's exhausted. So we gave her the day off. She didn't get back to our home state until late last night, but she'll be rejoining us tomorrow. Again, we want to thank all of our presenting sponsors without them. We would not be here. Blumerang American nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, nonprofit nerd, American Academy, the nonprofit Atlas, nonprofit thought leader and staffing boutique. We also want to make sure that you know, we have nearly 600 episodes from our archives on Roku, YouTube, Amazon Fire TV, and Vimeo. But wait, there's more. We also just started putting all of our current episodes onto streaming platforms for podcasts. So queue them up wherever you get your content and you can take us with you. It's pretty exciting, but better than anything, the most exciting thing is we have Andrea Evans with us publisher of front doors media, the red book and the center for positive media. Welcome my friend. Thank you. Wonderful to be here. I'm so excited in the green room chatter. I told everyone that when I see your name pop up as a viewer, a live viewer, I get all excited. I always have to like step it up. Oh, I love popping in whenever I can. It's on my calendar every day. If I, you know, don't have a meeting or an obligation, of course.   You know, Andrea, you're as one of the leaders, leading publishers of a society publication. Really, you know, the leader in our community, but really one of the leaders in the nation. I'm going to talk to us about what. And how you engage with the nonprofit sector, because we're going to be talking about media partnerships. And so talk to us a little bit about your publications. And then I'd love for you to share with us about the center for positive media, because that's a new endeavor. That is, it's our latest endeavor. And thank you. Well, front doors media is both a print and digital media company. And we have a mission. And the mission at the core of it is to share stories of inspiration in our community. We are based in Phoenix, Arizona. And we cover all of Maricopa County. When it comes to our editorial. And really our way to introduce ourselves to nonprofits in the community is through our calendar. We have a very robust. calendar on our website. And it, it has, you opt in to what type of event that you are looking to promote. So of course it's the, you know, elegant gala dinners, fundraisers, luncheons, breakfast events. But also we have a tab for 5k runs and walks and outdoor events. Golf tournaments is another tab. As well as community. So when things like the festival parade. You know, we have a lot of, you know, We have a lot of, you know, We have a lot of, you know, We have a lot of, you know, We have a lot of, you know, The need of volunteers that can post, you know, That type of activity of on our calendar. And so, and, and we use that calendar entry system to ask some questions and get some more information about the organizations. And we always say that being invited to attend your event. Is a way for us to get to know your organization. And it always turns into a story, And it always turns into a story. And it always turns into a story. And it always turns into a story. Our leading method of getting to know an organization is our online calendar. It's really amazing because as the leader and social coverage. In the fifth largest city of America in America. I would imagine that you were bombarded morning, noon and night. People pitching you stories, people trying to get into your publication. Can you talk a little bit about. The center for positive media. Absolutely. So we do have a beautiful glossy publication called front doors magazine. Our amazing editor in chief is Karen Warner. And she really, you know, We're traditional in the sense that we, We have a full editorial team. And they really do that the pitches I am on the editorial board. So I contribute. But I, you know, they're an amazing team of writers. And I think we're a really good team of writers. And I think they've done a really good job of having a good group of people who help us. Um, them in their decisions. Um, and, and people, we do put out their editorial calendar. So people do. Uh, know what to pitch us and when to pitch us, at least for the magazine, But we have a weekly newsletter that is for any. Breaking news, special announcements, funding. Um, stories. Getting to know new leaders in the community. through, oh I'd say, I mean on some days there's over a hundred pitches in our editor email box to go through. So yeah, so for five years I've been the publisher and you know we've been building up these things, the calendar, the weekly e-newsletter, the magazine and during COVID like most people my lease was up and so I moved home and was running you know my business on Zoom just as you were starting the show and I went and looked for new space and it was really difficult and I know you've probably talked about nonprofits and the expensive offices and all those things but we did finally you know rent two desks in a co-working situation. I knew it wasn't the answer but it was a short lease and it was with another community entity so it was great and it got me out of the house while my kids were still on Zoom doing homework and then I got a phone call and I have a video production partner called Inspired Media 360 that helps us produce our video series Front Doors TV and we got a call to come look at a space that somebody had invested in it's right in the middle of town and we came well it's an old lighting store and it has an old warehouse behind it and it is perfect for filming things and for hosting things and we looked at the person who had just bought the building and we said no no we don't want to tell you who else to have over here we want to be here and Carrie Penya my co-founder she named it the Center for Positive Media and we mean that in every sense of the word people pull over and come in and go what does this mean like we're trying to sneak some sort of like political agenda no every business that's housed in this building and it's a 10,000 square foot building with a fully working studio for filming green screen, psych wall, everything you can imagine and every business that was invited into the extra space that we the two of us did not mean it is collaborating with us so our photographer has moved in that shoots our beautiful covers the common sense media from the Arizona office you know the amazing rating system for children and family media their headquarters here so it's pretty cool and February was our grand opening it's home we have a home now. Awesome I love it well I'm so proud of you it's really exciting to see and I think that you are in the swim that so many of us are afraid of we want we know that we want to get positive media you know attract positive media for our nonprofits or organizations or events and yet there's a lot of fear and so I'm really interesting interested in knowing from your perspective what do media partnerships accomplish like what is the byproduct of all this so media partnerships I wrote down three key elements that in my mind when we go in our approach to do a media partnership with with a nonprofit especially you know at the at the core you're creating awareness of the organization and in some cases awareness of the the media company and all that they have to offer to the community branding you know having a partnership with a media company or a magazine or a newspaper or an online you know social media strong social media effort that's a way to extend your branding that you've worked so hard to establish and get out there and it's also a great way to boost your cause with your stakeholders your board members your committee members your volunteers they feel another sense of pride when they see your organization in the news if you will and whether that's earned media or you know an arrangement like a media partnership like we're talking about today okay I love that you use a word and I would love for earned media before I ask you the next question and I have so many questions I just got to warn you will you define earned media for us sure earned media is when you reach out to a media outlet with and you're pitching a story something has happened at your organization that is amazing news you've received a you know really significant grant that was a very competitive process you have a volunteer that has accomplished you know 10,000 hours or something like that and you you know you're you're you're doing a little campaign to to surprise or celebrate them you have an amazing celebrity coming to perform at your event and you and get that out the old way was a press release right and people used to sit at fax machines and fax out press releases it's a new way and what we try you know we actually kind of do a hand holding with organizations that are not used to pitching stories show them how to do it with us and then say take that same exercise and go reach out to other companies we can't do it all we we love being first we love you know being the one to to help teach these things but so you get that information out to a writer a producer and they do a story and you didn't pay for anything that is earned media I love it and you know it's such a powerful thing it can be a little frightening because you don't always have control and there are some tips and tricks that you can do we've talked about it on the nonprofit show a lot like how do you help the reporting team cover you cover you accurately and what are some of those tools but that's for another day because those are that's a huge discussion it is that's a whole another show a whole other ball of wax sister hey I want to ask you how are you valuing your media partnerships and what does that look like I mean you're you're not going to make a business decision to give up valuable real estate resources time and energy on something and not have it be a value what is it that is a value to you yeah we only have a very few slots where we're able to do this both financially as well as entities and other organizations that are you know qualified to really do something that benefits both parties equally that's what I'm after the give and the get are our it's fair it's fair for both and it's a big win for both parties and so a few things that we look for when when discussing a media partnership we need really great content we need things that when we get them up on our website we know you know the clicks are going to come this is this is this is great material this is something you know our readers want um are going to want to consume and click away um we also want stories that are not being told by other media outlets right they are right in our wheelhouse and you know every media company you can figure out pretty easily what they're what they're after so um we are looking for things at the core are they're not only giving back but they're just it's a really awesome notable you know story um and then one of the biggest things um you need to have a plan for photos and or b-roll video to come with um your pitch to to you know have a media partnership with um again whether it's a tv station a newspaper a magazine um those things are needed and they're and they need to be really good quality otherwise the whole thing's going to flop and and um going to be disappointing for all parties involved I love that you brought that up because I would say in my media career that's been something that has really changed um and back in the day when you were still a high school cheerleader and I was an adult you know if you if you moved forward with b-roll or images you know a lot of media outlets would be like no we take our own and right we can't do that and and boy has it swung for so many reasons again we could talk about that and for another couple hours but if you don't have those tools and if you haven't invested in them and I loved that you brought up the the caliber of what those files are that they're properly identified that they're properly sized and usable you are not going to get the consideration and again you know we're helping teach as well because we are a community publication and media company and so again we're saying we need this but you need to do it all the time it's for you to have you should be using it on your social media and on your website is and your e-newsletters as well it's once something's published you know even if it's an exclusive partnership it's still yours um and and it's valuable it's very valuable well I I'm super appreciative that you said that because I feel like I preached on that morning noon and night so to have an expert come in and and tell us that yay team okay now this is the next thing that I think a lot of people are going to be really surprised by your answer how far in advance are media partnerships secured like what what works for you and what are you looking for we are really looking at six to nine months and here in the phoenix area you know we're wrapping up our social season we don't have much but of community activity in the summer because of the heat here and so I am actually already in discussions with both a renewal of a media partnership that is in november as well as a new partnership that would be in late january and and again I only have so many slots so I am in those negotiations right now and and that'll be it the slots will be gone uh for next for 2022 23 season you really need to if you want it you've got to go get it early and show that you're organized and that you have your ducks in a row so part and parcel to that I got two questions um how are you with exclusivity like how do you manage that and then do you ever do like a multi-year partnership or do you start all over I mean it's okay you know now the the editorial calendar is opening up and we're going to place it out how do you kind of leverage those two those two ideas sure we love exclusivity and actually as our company has grown and our readership has grown that is um what we are requesting of organizations that are uh requesting and sometimes exclusivity for us means we're the exclusive print publication and you know we're okay that there's also an exclusive television um station as well so um we're going to be exclusive in our area and if they're big enough and savvy enough to you know have other media partners uh with other platforms you know that's great just again communicate it's a relationship and let everybody know who all is involved so that we can um we can promote each other as well as media partners and um the exclusivity it's it's it's strength it that's a strength to the partnership that means you know you really are partners in what you're trying to accomplish whether it's promoting an event or giving campaign and we Julia we we put it all in a contract in a document and that document says you know front doors media is going to accomplish the following items and XYZ organization is going to do the following and that way everybody has their checklist and whether it's weekly check-ins monthly check-ins um countdown to the the big day um everybody knows what's expected and what's going to happen and then we do a review once the event is over um and so all the um the media partnerships have been on a you know knock it out of the park on year one if it's a new deal and then um discuss what you know was a hit if anything was amiss new areas that we didn't think of because it was our first time working together and um and is it a is it a renewable you know contract or was it a one-time deal and the relationship is going to change i've had both interesting do you ever ask for um uh contact information for like say people on the guest list or i mean you are a media company and you're trying to build your subscriber base what does that look like and and how do those conversations go absolutely um when that that is what is our benefit from a media partnership it's a it's an opportunity to grow our brand and our viewership and subscriber base um so when there is actual you know guests and tracking mechanisms yes those people are all then invited to become um subscribers and it's a you know the way we do it they could opt out you know we're not forcing anybody to do anything but it is definitely something that um in our uh what we do as a publisher um we're interested in inviting um people that are part of the organization that we work with to become a permanent part of our of our dna um employers for sure well and i think it it goes kind of back to one of the things that you said um earlier and that is is that you know stakeholders and people in the community feel better about their relationship when they see those stories and when they see those things coming back um and in featuring them um i know you do a lot of social coverage um obviously that's one of the cornerstones of what you do including photo galleries things of that nature um and this is somewhat of a curve ball but can you talk to us about how you like to work with nonprofits whether they're a partner a media partner with you or not but just how sharing those galleries or getting those images from events and what that looks like yeah and we're actually um we're finding that during covid there's been a lot of um changes in the staff and we have a lot of new people that we are working with when it comes to covering events um but here's a few things that we do so um a the calendar that i mentioned before that is where we make the arrangement that we are being invited to cover the event and um that somebody from our team is um being invited to be present um sometimes we can't get to everything but we just we're not going to do a photo gallery if we're not invited to do so and so if somebody wants to stay you know private and and not do that that's that's fine we make it as clear as possible as we could can what the arrangement is and then afterward we work with that usually the same person that we started with on the calendar entry and um uh and let me back up a second in the calendar entry there's also um please send me information about advertising or event you can pay you know a fee to be um your event to be published in our newsletter you can pay for a banner ad to be added to our website you could pay for um an ad to be in the magazine so again it really is this giant checklist of options um in order to say no you're invited to to any and all of these things depending on what your budget is and what you're what you're after events that are a thousand dollars a person that you know they don't need that but those are those are high level you know donor relationships but you know a food tasting event for $150 for a VIP ticket $100 you know for a festival ticket that those things sell online you know like crazy that that's a really good um you know lead for us um and then we attend the event if we can like I said and it's our honor to do so and I do introduce myself to the photographer and say we're looking forward to using your your photos and then we really prompt the organization to go through and pick out those best photos the most flattering photos of the people that really made the event success or the campaign a success we want their event chairs we want their board of directors um chairman and members we if there was an awesome entertainer of course you know photo them or the honoree but we also say don't put the same people in all this all the photos right exactly a good gallery has the best photo of each of these elements and so this year we're adding a shot list to our our package that once we receive an event invitation and we say you know thank you we've noticed there's so many new younger people involved in the process we say here's the shot list for you whoever staffing the photographer this is what's going to make your coverage shine you know I love it I love it and I think um you know not only are you helping your publishing team and staff to get you know better results and to build you know the credibility and excitement of your award winning publication but you're helping that non-profit get really great coverage that that lasts so long especially I mean I know you do you know your beautiful print work but at the core of it this is a digital world and so those things last they're searchable I mean they they continue to have a shelf life it's and they get shared on social media it's nobody'll be proud that their friend you know with the chairman or the honoree of an event and away it goes on you know facebook and insta and we it's all tied back to us and I love it it's a win win it's a win it is a win win well wow it you know it's hard to believe that our time is coming to a draw this has been amazing I want to make sure to share Andrea's contact information Andrea I'm so proud of you hard to believe front doors 20 years um really an amazing journey that you've taken and the things that you do in our community make a difference and you might not always see that but I see it and I know how remarkable your work is and I also know how hard your work is so I thank you for what you do well thank you Julia for being um one of our biggest cheerleaders you know how much I treasure that and again all these little pearls of wisdom challenge your publications in your communities please to um do this type of coverage but you could give it to them you know in a way that makes it very easy for them to say yes to you right right you know I used to say all the time I have to say no far more than I get to say yes because there's just so much but when there are two things going on people that and missions that I really believe in it's easier to say yes and when you help us along that journey you give us information you give us ideas um and they're not the same as what everybody else is getting it's a little bit more unique or a little bit more of an insight in a certain direction that's magical and that's when things get done so I love that you are marching in that direction hey check out frontdoorsmedia.com it's just an amazing resource I think there are a lot of things to learn about what's going on in a vibrant philanthropic community we are blessed to have that here where we are but it is something that we work on and it is something that people like Andrea Evans and her team work on and cultivate for us each day so thank you so much my friend again I'm Julia Patrick tomorrow you will be back with us and Jarrett Ransom who has been at the AFP Icon Awards doing our very first live remote from Vegas so we'll get to hear about how that went some of the lessons learned from there again I want to thank all of our presenting sponsors Blumerang American non-profit academy fundraising academy the non-profit nerd your part-time controller staffing boutique non-profit thought leader and the non-profit atlas without these sponsors we would not be here and so we are very very grateful hey Andrea my friend thank you for this time I know you have a busy world and I am grateful that you would share with us today now thanks for having me Julia and my love to ransom to Jarrett as well and I'll see you guys tomorrow for your awesome Friday show well thank you we will be there and as we like to end every episode we want to remind everyone and ourselves stay well so you can do well


Question is from Pure Warrior 247. What's the difference between grass-fed meat and wild game meat? Nothing. Well, thanks. Well, I mean, there's a lot different. There's a big difference between grass-fed and grain, or wild and grain, but grass-fed and wild is pretty much the same thing. Well, here's the reason why it's different. They move a lot? Because grass-fed meat that you buy, that you, like for example, butcher box delivers to your door, it's grass-fed beef. There isn't wild. Is there wild cows that you can get? That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. They get eaten by wolves, I would think. You imagine a cow in the wild?  Name a single, name one animal that you could buy, grass-fed, or you could buy wild. Pig. Yeah. Okay, that's a good point. Did you guys know if you take... It turns into a harry hog. It does, did you know that? Did you know if you took a domestic... And they're crazy right now in Texas. You guys know this? You can actually fly a helicopter and shoot them with assault rifles. It's legal. You can also do it out of a hot air balloon. They let you do it out of a hot air balloon now. Is this all real? The true story. Yeah, dude. Because they have so many feral hogs. So why haven't we done this? I don't know, it sounds like an adventure to me. Why haven't we done this? Yeah, would you not want to do that? Have you ever gone hunting? I have. But not like a semi-automatic gun after pigs. I mean, it's a little... That sounds a lot of fun. It's a little crazy, but... Maybe we start with the rats first. Start with your automatic... Start small, we'll get the... Yeah, we'll work our way out. No, yeah, if you take a domestic pig and you put it out in the wild, it turns feral. Like the switch turns on and it actually becomes a crazy fucking... Like a boar almost. Okay, so besides... Those tusks and all that. So besides the hog, what else animal could be grass-fed or wild? Oh, that we eat both? Yeah, that we eat both. We don't really. It's normally... You're normally comparing grass-fed to grain or wild to grain, right? Yeah, so here's the thing with wild game meat. And I guess bison would be the closest to beef, right? Bison is wild. And that would be about as close as you can get to cow, at least. In fact, if you eat bison, it almost tastes the same. But wild meat has just got a healthier fatty acid profile. It's more nutrient-dense, flavor-wise.  There's a flavor that natural... I'm using the word natural, but I think you guys know what I'm talking about. There's a flavor that natural wild meat has that domesticated grain-fed meat doesn't have. Oh, there's a clear distinction between grain and wild or grain and grass. But I... And maybe there is... Again, I don't have an example of a meat that I've had that I've had wild and I've also had only grass-fed. Because I think grass-fed has a different taste in comparison to grain-fed meat. It's a little bit... It's like in between... It's not straight, it's not gaming, like you're eating venison, but it's not purely like the grain-fed beef. It's just a hint of the gaminess. Yeah, like venison and elk, like I've had that before. And I like the taste. It's definitely way different than any kind of a livestock animal. It's got a little bit of that... Well, you have to explain for people to understand because this was like... I remember the first time I fully understood this. And I didn't... This was until maybe six years ago, maybe five, six years ago when I started looking for more grass-fed is I didn't understand what that meant that it changed the fatty acid profile and why that was important to you. Because when you talk about somebody who is trying not to, you know, is fighting inflammation or you're trying to get healthier fats in your diet, it's kind of canceled out when you go and you get like grain-fed beef. A little bit, like if you eat meat every once in a great while, it's not gonna make a difference. You know what I mean? If you eat one steak or burger patty or whatever once a week or less, it's probably not gonna make that huge of a difference. Now, there's an argument that says that you will see a difference over time. So let's say you eat red meat once a week, but you do it for 20 years or 30 years, then yeah, there may be this kind of cumulative effect, but especially if you eat a lot of meat. Like if you're like me, I eat red meat five to seven days a week, at least five to seven days a week. Some week, I go for weeks on end for seven days a week. And natural meats or wild or grass-fed meat, it has to, it's supposed to have a balance fatty acid profile of six, three and nine. It's got a better, much better, much more balanced fatty acid profile. And it makes a difference when, it makes a big difference when you're consuming a lot of it. It's higher in CLA. CLA is a fatty acid that, I mean, bodybuilders have supplemented with CLA for like two decades. CLA is what they would refer to as the fat, burning fat. And they find that diets that are higher in it when the calories are equal, that they tend to be leaner and have more muscle. So this is why bodybuilders were supplemented. It doesn't work that way though. You don't just add CLA to your diet and get the effects. You have to replace other fatty acids with it. Well, I told you, I remember reading an article a few years back that they actually compete with each other in the cell. So if, and I'll just use round numbers for the average person to kind of get this concept that if your cell could only hold a hundred fatty acid profiles in it, right? And they're made up of six, three and nine are getting in there and- You can't just throw more of something else on it. Right. And actually six and nine will outdo or outperform the three. So if you're getting like, if you're getting 75 and 75, you'll get all 75 of the six and nine and then you'll only get 25 of the three. I failed math, that was bad. So I know that's not the most scientific way to explain it, but for the average listener to get an idea of the importance of that. And we know how important omega-3s are. And that is something that we're always trying to search for most people and almost everybody gets recommended that supplement. It's rare that people are getting enough omega-3 in their diet. And so when you're eating a meat that should already naturally have it in that. Yeah, that would be great except for if you're always eating meat that is grain fed all the time. You're actually, the profile's changed. It's higher on the six and nine's lower on the threes. So you're getting an abundance of the six and nine's which are not ideal and you're getting less of the threes which is more ideal. Balance is ideal. It's too much of one, not enough of another is not a good idea, especially when you're talking about six and nine's. And some people, there are segments of the population that are very sensitive to this. So if they eat a lot of red meat that's grain fed, they'll see that their lipid profiles go crazy. And this is why when they reduce their red meat consumption, their lipid profiles look better. I would surmise that a lot of these people rather than having to eliminate red meat. Switch to grass fed. Switch to grass fed. I've seen this in clients before. Have you? Yes. And they'll get a better fatty acid profile. They'll get a better lipid profile. Same thing for people that feel like, you know, inflammation or they feel bloated from eating meat a lot of times.  I notice a big difference. That's my, that's for me. So if I eat a lot of grain fed beef, let's say I'm trying to gain size. And so I'm adding a lot of meat into my diet because the calories and all that stuff. I do notice an increase in inflammation. When it's grass fed, I don't. This is my own personal experience. And that inflammation contributes to worse gut health for me at least. So I digest grass fed meat better when I'm eating high quantities. They're also higher in key micronutrients. Now again, it's not this dramatic massive difference, but it's enough of a difference to where, again, if you consume a lot of red meat, if you consume it all the time, it will definitely make a difference for you to consume that meat as a high quality grass fed. Yeah, I assume that like even just having the chicken's graze around my property and everything. And in terms of like the color and what the yolk looks like and how rich it feels like the micronutrients are in comparison to something that was store bought. To me, it just, I mean, there's little things like that if you start to kind of like put two and two together with like an animal that's out there like working for their food and getting it from like so many varied sources, like how much more diverse that would be nutrient-wise. Yeah, now eating, always eating wild game meat is probably, for everybody's probably not possible. Yeah, it's not realistic. Because there's too many people and we would make animals instinctive. We can't all like, yeah. If we wanted to move in that direction, that wouldn't work out very well. No, we just have too many people. But factory farming with the feeding these animals grain all the time is not awesome. It's like the processed version of beef. Like these animals are cramped, they're standing in their own poop, they're just eating grain. And when you have an unhealthy animal the meat is just not, it's not as healthy. So it makes sense that you're not gonna be as healthy eating that kind of meat. Grass fed, now don't get me wrong, you could probably construct a factory farming model that looks identical to the grain fed model and throw grass at these animals. But oftentimes the way that they feed these cows is they roam, they eat foods that's more natural to their body and so it's also more humane. It's also better for the environment. And they're good for the environment.   So they produce more of those byproducts. It's also better for the environment in terms of the ecology and the way that they're, they have to take care of the land so that it's producing quality grass that the animals can eat. It's just better all the way around. And it is more expensive if you go to the store, but we live in a pretty wealthy society and I don't know of a better place to invest money than in your health. I really don't. There's almost nothing you'll get better return on. It's really not that more expensive when you go through someone like ButcherBox. That's one of the reasons why, and I know you referenced them that I think it's amazing what they do because when you look at what you're getting by having it shipped to your house and I know that grass fed is typically more expensive, it's really not that more expensive than me going down to the butcher and actually getting the meat there. Oh yeah, well, I mean, we'll probably cover this in more detail down the road, but like how they got started was what I basically was doing with my wife, we would go in on a cow together with a couple of families and buy straight from the source or like from a 4-H group that they raised it all humanely and went through that whole process and it was great. Especially when you guys factor in the things that they always do, did you see what they're doing this month, what they're giving away? No. You know how every month they always have some cool, like special for someone who gets on their subscription base? This month is a turkey, dude. A whole turkey? Oh yeah, I did see that. It's a whole turkey, right Doug? I'm so doing this. Yeah, 10 to 14 pound turkey. Free. Yeah. Free for when you sign up with them. Yes. Oh, well Thanksgiving's coming up. That makes sense. No, I know. Isn't that cool? Wow, that's a great, yeah.


Let's check! So check this out, guys. I am in my office and I've got this Xbox controller. If I push buttons, I get to do different things. So check this out. If I click this, I'm super close up. It's really uncomfortable, right? It's really uncomfortable. And I'm back out. But it was kind of a rough transition. So if I hit this, I'm back in again. I'm zoomed in. My cat's trying to steal my tuna fist sandwich from Subway. Let's go back up. Now I'm back out. There's a lot of things going on right now. Anyway, what we're going to do today is review a video while I try to play around with this controller. This is the first talk I did. First talk I uploaded. Let's be completely candid here. I think this could have been my third SC talk altogether. The lady in this video is named—I can't hear myself. And talk at the same time. I'm sorry. Anyway, her name is Sandy. She's a really nice lady. I sold the video as a lady who believed that the world was flat. She did kind of believe that a little bit. So we ended up talking about why she believed that. And it ended up being that she wasn't completely tied into the belief and just needed a good motivational coach for reasonable thinking to get back on the reason train, on the reason party. Anyway, I am happy to break down this talk and see what was going on. Anyway, let's go to the beginning. Just like some people think that Earth is flat. Yeah. Some people think it's round. Okay. So, but I don't know. Is it? Oh, whoa. Because I'm not out there. Yeah. That's a great way to open up any video or any kind of conversation, I think. Oh, look at that logo. That was a while ago. It was a while ago since I used the logo where it was just text only. This is before I even found that purple and green icon. All right. Anyway, let's set the scene. It's like March 18th. It's a really, really cold day. Actually, it's not, it's been, this video's been older than the year. I can't believe we're doing it for this long. Okay. Okay. Well, you're going to have to educate me on this a little bit.  She has white silver hair. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. You know, or just the way that you look. Oh, yeah. That's true. That's true. True. True. Sure. Sure.  I did. She's a sweet lady. You have bad teeth or if you don't have bad teeth. Why do you think people go bad? Bad teeth. What's she saying? The way that people, they're not really judging people. I think it's just the way that they've grown up. The way that they've been brought up. They're afraid to talk to other people. So I think at this stage of the conversation, it's kind of rough because I normally get the soft everybody should be good to each other. Everyone should be happy with each other topics when we start out. And those tend to be the ones from people who aren't completely comfortable in an environment like this. Because I am just a guy at a table. I got a random sign that says, let's talk about whatever you want. People are going to pick topics that they think you will automatically agree with in order to just have a very congenial conversation. They're afraid to get to that core epistemology or methodologies. The warm and fuzzies on the inside. So they stick with the warm and fuzzies on the outside. And they go like, oh, you need to work out. You know, everyone should just be kind to each other. You got to learn how to dig. I wonder if even back at this time, if I knew how to dig to the good stuff. Let's see. There's a way to do it. Let's see if I did it even back then. By the way, this contrast is really bad. It's really hard to get a white person and a black person with a single lighting source showing up in video with the same degree of contrast. I was a learning skill on my own. I had to learn how to do that. I had to learn. You have to have different presets for different people based on the color of their skin. Hey, who knew video editing is racist? You got to deal with it. You got to live in the world you're living. Anyway, let's go. Do you think there's ever a chance where those kinds of immediate first impressions could actually be an accurate assessment of what that is? Oh, I am supporting racism. Let's go. I know where I'm going with this. So basically, I'm asking, do you think there's ever a time where those immediate biases that you have, those stereotypes you have, were actually valid to have? Now we're beginning to move the gears a little bit. Let's see where we go with this. No, no.  Okay. And look just like I'm mean or mad. You brought up an interesting subject, Ben. How, what is the best way to figure out something that's. Talking to them. Talking. Cool. Okay. So now we've moved from just the, you know, everybody should get along with each other to what is a good methodology to figure out something about a person, to figure out if they are safe to talk to, if they're not as safe to talk to, if your initial biases are accurate or not. What's that methodology that you use? We're getting closer to a conversation based around an epistemology. I think it's good. Is this on one? Yes. You want that first one-on-one experience? Yeah. What if I was just a very, very charming nice guy out here, but I'm like actually planning something nefariously evil when I get that. Nefariously evil. Oh my gosh. Exactly. That's right. That's what I'm saying. Okay. Nefariously evil. You never know. Let's go. Okay. Yeah. All right. But it's worth the talk then I guess, would you say? Yeah. Okay. But I would never ever really know. I mean you just don't know. It takes a long time to really get to know somebody. You know some of the. Oh I feel like we're digging into gold. Why did I talk then? Sometimes pregnant plazas are really good. I think I bet if I didn't say anything right at that point we would have gone somewhere really interesting. But as long as this is what I have are with people who strongly do believe that they know something. Is there anything that you strongly believe that you know? Anything that- Yeah. I feel like I got a little impatient here. I think if I just didn't say anything at all. See that's one of the things. Sometimes you can really move a conversation forward. If you are silent compared to trying to drive it towards a direction. And at this point I'm trying to drive it towards a really strong confidence claim. And if I had just stayed quiet I think we would have gone to some really interesting territory right here. I feel like there was like a really nice emotional statement that she let out. Also that dog is super nice. Look how chill this dog is anyway let's go. Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. She is confident about absolutely nothing. That's very cool. Absolutely nothing. Absolutely. Absolutely. You're absolutely. Absolutely comfortable with knowing nothing. I love this. You're absolutely comfortable knowing that you don't know anything. Are you very confident that you don't know anything right now? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Who does know? Who does know like. Anything. So it is important. So this isn't the first time I've had these conversations. But this is the first time I've recorded a conversation like this. I think it is important. Past Tyrone I hope you did this. I hope you asked what does she mean by knowing. Because I think that's an interesting idea. Because she might be saying I don't know anything. But she might have a complete definition of what she means by know. And if we're using different definitions with the same vocabulary we're talking past each other. So let's get let's get to the bottom of it. I know you can do it. Let's do it. Because I think something's real. Yeah. May not be real to the other person. Okay. Okay. Okay. If I were to say for example I have like a box of tic-tacs here. And there could be an even or odd number of tic-tacs right. And if we were to count them out and said I don't know. There's 10 tic-tacs in this container. We know it's even right. But if someone came up here to this table and was like. Well I'm looking at that bag of tic-tacs and I count an odd number. Could we say that we're both correct. Yeah. Because you know. Oh geez. So this that is the first time. That's probably the first and only time I've ever used the tic-tac example. I might have used it again at some other time. I find it to be a little abstract. Particularly when you're dealing with conversations. That are based in abstraction. But it is the idea of like. Hey man. If two people are disagreeing about something. Can we. And they aren't agreeing with each other at all. They have the opposite position on a position right. Can they both be right. And if it's something as objective as a. The number of something being even or odd. Is there room for at least one person be wrong. Like because. How can you say they're both right or wrong. How do you do that. Turn around what you do. I don't really want to know. How do you handle this. I could have eaten one. She's changing the rules. She's changing the rules. But if you didn't. If you didn't it was in that container. It's impossible for some two people to have. Completely different ideas about something and both be correct. Yeah. I'm getting that body language where she's about to say yes. Well. Let her think. Just like some people think the earth is flat. Yeah. Oh here we go. People think it's wrong. Okay. So but I don't know. Is it. Is it. Well I'm not out there. Is it. I don't really know. I only know from the scientific information that I get. Okay. And then the. I don't know what they're called. But the people think that the world is flat. Yeah. They think that they know from the information that they know. Okay. Does this agreement itself invalidate the evidence. Oh. Do you think listening to. I got a. I have a smooth silver tongue on that. I would not have been able to handle this that well this now. What do you even I say. Oh my gosh. See I'm not good with words. All right. Let's what did I say that again. I'm just replying it back again. I got to take notes. I don't know what they're called. But the people think that the world is flat. Yeah. They think that they know from the information that they know. Okay. So because there is a disagreement. Does this agreement itself invalidate the evidence. Does the disagreement itself invalidate the evidence. I would remember that. Do you think listening to the evidence is better than listening to people argue about the subject. Yes. Okay. So when you argue you don't really you know you form more of a I'm right. Sure. You know and that's what creates a war. Where did she go with that. Whoa whoa whoa. Maybe she's right. Maybe she's right. Yes. I like these. Maybe she's right. About what do you think is the best reliable method that we have right now for like coming to like a true conclusion about something. Letting everybody believe whatever they want. Letting everyone believe. I did not expect her to say that. It's been a while since I've seen this conversation. Letting everyone believe whatever they want to believe. Maybe I should do this again. All right we're going to transition. Oh geez. All right let's transition. Okay. Is that good. So all right. If someone believed that bottled water was the same thing as gasoline. Would that be a good way for them to get to work in the morning with the bottle of aquafina for example. It could because if you had. Look how strong I am I got to watch out. Anyway that bottled water example. I like that example and I keep forgetting to use that but it's basically our relevant truths a reliable way to operate in reality. If I believe that gasoline and bottled water are the exact same thing would I be able to pour aquafina or how far would I be able to drive on a gas tank full of aquafina. Right. It's one of those questions that just make it pretty obvious that you know believing whatever you want to believe isn't enough. It's not enough. We like to believe it is but you know we live in a world where we got to do the best we can with the information we got and sometimes believing that we have more cars than we do isn't necessarily the case. My cat is scratching himself up a storm. Let's go. Machine that would run in aqua. Like a hydrogen cell. Yes. Okay. If they had a standard engine car and they believed that it would work even on a standard. Well they could believe it would but if they put it in and they go oh and then it changes their oh well I guess that doesn't work. Oh I see so they would have to make the observation that didn't work. They'd have to make their own observations. They'd have to make their own observations. I wonder if that defeats her original claim. They'd have to make their own observations. Hmm I feel like that's not explicit enough for her to realize that just believing whatever you want is isn't necessarily ideal. I wonder if I push it further than just this. So it may not just be believing it but like actually testing the belief is probably. Okay. Good correction Ty.  That was good. I didn't know where I would have gone from there if I did this now. I don't this is like brand new territory for me but if I was having that kind of conversation I wouldn't know what I would say to continue to push the belief forward but I feel like that was probably a really good way to do it. All I'm doing is praising myself. Let me see what could I do better. What could I have done better. The bottled water gasoline example. I like I feel like there's a way to deliver that example without sounding nearly as I don't know what's the right word for it robotic. I feel like I can give that out in a much more conversational tone and that helps to get the point across and a slightly more casual but still giving the person who's I'm asking this question to more time to think because the way I asked it right now sounded like it was coming off you know like a clipboard or something like that. And that tends to get people guarded up a little bit more which makes the answer come out a little bit faster and if I'm robotic I might get a robotic response. I want people to you know really think about what they're what they're saying and if I just slow down a little bit if I just slow down this whole conversation down a little bit I probably would end up in a completely different area but as far as just addressing the idea of relative truths and helping her get back on the idea that evidence is really good way to back up beliefs then that's good you could believe what you want but if you could test it that's even better maybe that would be a nice way to like sum up that point like hey I understand that you can believe whatever you want I'm not arguing that but if we could test our beliefs that'd be a really good way to know which beliefs were true or not and I want to believe in true things too. What about you? Something like that would be great. Anyway let's get back to it. Now I'm just talking about pets. I'm going to talk about my cat again. She's so tiny I would feel so I have a cat. What is this plane? Oh my gosh I love my cat so much. Vinny I love you. Vinny I love you. My cat's literally right here he's just like he's just chilling out with me. I raised the cat to be a dog basically. How many videos have I talked about walking my cat? This is the first video anyway as soon as this plane goes by. Okay so here we go I know I got maybe maybe at best 30 seconds more in this conversation before she's ready to go she wants to walk her dog she had another friend of her standing by I remember and I don't know if she had a dog too but like I don't have a lot of time left in this conversation and I want to ask a question that's meaningful. I can see myself getting very serious here my body language is all pensive and I'm wondering what comes out. I don't know what's going to come out but let's figure it out let's hope let's go. In the event that you can't test the belief even one that you want to believe and even one something that you want to believe is true and your your only best answer that you have is I don't know because I don't know everything do you think that's a good place to just leave it off that until you get better evidence or do you think you should like make a leap of faith or something like that? Oh I don't know what she's gonna say so I basically asked her do you think I don't know is a good answer to have when you don't know something and a good position a good answer to give until you can get better evidence and she said yes and now I'm asking her do you or do you think it's better to take a leap of faith use that F bomb I dropped that F bomb let's go so I don't know what she says we'll see what she says is it better to take a leap of faith what is she gonna say no oh let's go Sandy I like that nice go about what you're doing be who you are and whatever comes up and then just be happy nice what's happening nice and then if it doesn't work well then you go okay I'll either test it or all this move on nice boom very cool hey that's not bad wonderful conversation get in there this is a miracle wow I can't believe that was over for stocks that's really great got that high five and everything very nice okay good job Ty that's not bad I enjoyed that that was really good okay so like I said my goal is to hopefully speed up the production of videos by doing you know short videos like this and summarizing them let me know what you think this is still a work in progress but anyway thank you very much I'll see you guys next time bye that was weird


in my opinion every industry needs better quality contractors every industry for the federal government i'm not going to say that's true in the private sector every industry and the federal government needs better quality contractors every industry it r&d construction management consulting i mean program management program development systems management every industry i mean if the government contractors in most cases are just as bad as the government themselves they become complacent because if you're always getting the contracts then do you really have to work that hard anymore so there's a lot of areas in which they can improve and there but there's no reason for them to because they're sheer size and they're presumed to be the winners and most instances and i'm referring to the like the big boys not the people that we're talking about but even at our levels and you know i'll go back to pick on maria because i know a lot of her stories you know then you coast guard have a electrical contract out there that was very cozy yeah they called me because they told me that's how everything started snowballing he's like i think that guy's ripping us off he's like he's been here so long he think he could give us any prize so they just wanted somebody else's price so they could check against them and that's what i see that's what happened with space x anybody that's on my email list you saw the email a long time ago i sent from space x they were trying to break into the spaceship satellite market the government wouldn't let a man bowing wouldn't let a man and they had to sue the government to break in because the government's requirement when space x wanted to get into the market was you had to have successfully launched a rocket who in the hell did that how can that be a prerequisite where am i going to launch a rocket from dude that was a prereq to be able to qualify for the contracts like you had to have successfully launched a rocket and it was unfair it was unreasonable and the big guys lobbied to keep it that way and he said this is bs and that if the us does not find a way to cut costs for sending rockets to space we will never have a full blown program and will never be a leader in the world and he sued the government so you know what i'm saying not to diverge too much is that we believe because these people are exist okay i'll go back to another guy i had a call with last week he worked for booze alan hamilton his vp worked for s a i c you look them up they're all you know everyone knows booze alan they're a top 50 dod company s a i c top 50 dod as well he was on their team really smart savvy guy out of india and he said that they were building the government three to four hundred thousand a month and no one on the team could explain what they were actually delivering it could explain he goes he couldn't explain their program or what they were even actually doing because what is that what are we delivering to the government no one could explain it they had just been charging boom boom and so he left and started his own consulting company you know the point is that's happening everywhere once you get to the program manager level you'll realize that they're not very happy with the people that they have and and so you know it's up to us to you know like say hey i'm great i'm good you know wave your flag say you're out here you're working like i exist i'm gonna do better services you know the same thing chris you say to us right it's like hey i'm gonna give you a good quality service give me you know trust me i'll get it done blah blah all that kind of stuff like that's what people are looking for how do you get to that like if you don't have a toe like i know you said look for any like little toe holder for hold is there a way to like penetrate to that like yeah i mean the people like okay and let's say crowley right who gave crowley their contract i think do d it's got do you get is very broad okay you gotta get down no no no no there's an office that that contract came out of okay you can tell me the office yeah like we get the office you find out who's in charge you call the person who's in charge out of dc who regulates them for a compliance in their goals and that person will put you in contact with the person that you need to talk to to find out how you can get on that so you you come from the top oh i come from the side i come from the top one of things one of the things i say chris is if you start at the like say let's say you call the office right where let's say they're probably got their contract out of Denver and you get no response like i tried to penetrate i tried no one responded then i say go to dc dc the people pick up the phone hmm i have never never not had a return phone call from dc never never wow with 100 i'm talking about 100 they call you back no one everyone's afraid to call them and they're afraid not to call back i think that's the case chris i'll be honest with you i think because you're now you're like the last spot i guess where it's supposed to stop so they respond i'm telling you guys haven't tried it you haven't tried it i promise you call you tell me if you tell me who's in charge chris where they got the contract out of that office we'll get on the phone together and reach out and then we'll call dc and reach out okay i'll deal with you i'm gonna take up i'm gonna take you up on that that's maria she know i'll call them first i think there's a game i love it i still remember the first video that i saw from him is and he picks up the phone he's teaching us it's a youtube video he's teaching us something online to reach out to the primes to see if there's some because they just want a contract and in the video he goes hi mr robert kelly i still remember the guy's name and i'm like did you really call he's like yeah and he's like yeah i saw you just want a contract and i was saying you needed help i don't think he was ready for the guy to say yes though he's like yeah yeah i am i'm actually looking for one no i wasn't right no you're right chris i was not ready for him to say yes i was doing it for someone like yourself who was telling me that crap that oh eric you know i could do this work i'm like well did you call the guy no i said i told you to call the guy did you call why didn't you call him well you know when you start running around the circles i go all right fine i'm gonna call the guy just to prove that that's what it took that's all it took it's very easy to be comfortable to sit back and you know go through digging right and look but chris we gotta call the people we have to call the people gotta call people we gotta call the people we gotta call them like how do they know you chris how they they're never gonna know you if you don't call that's i mean that's just you've probably by calling them you've jumped past like 85 percent of folks out there who won't call and who won't be known i don't get there'll be no name a bit and people i've i've called like krally and some people at the dod i definitely never i definitely not call dc you call do d if okay if you go in i get you i don't tell you to call dod i tell you to find the contracting office where the contract came out of you have to find the code maria one of them she knows them codes you gotta find a code where they write those contracts and you call that gives you checks you back to an office you call that office different price levels whatever suits your fancy