Welcome back everyone to CUBE's live coverage here at RSA. It's day four at CUBE's wall-to-wall coverage. We've been here unpacking the stories, talking to the smartest people, the smartest people in the network, partners, customers, suppliers. Got a great set of two guests here from F5. Michael Rouse, senior vice president, general manager, distributed cloud platform and security services. Thanks for joining me today. Great title there. Brian McKenzie, vice president of product management at F5. You get the keys to the kingdom. He's the general manager. Networking is a big part of security. Not, I got to say, normally it's a front and center, but now we're hearing platforms here, a lot of discussion around politics. The White House was here, had some briefings. I saw Microsoft friends in with the White House. Security obviously has moved from being a department to like being the thing. And rightfully so, with the network. So we've been saying on the CUBE all week, network security, the network folks and security are the core. They're enabling developers, everything, that's all that matters. Ops-wise, you've seen a lot of reconfiguration. You guys are in the middle of it, with a great product, it's very clouds friendly, very multi-cloud, super cloud-like. So you guys are the center with some great products. So what's your take on the current state of RSA? Yeah, I mean the current state of RSA and the customer conversations that we've had is that there are more and more customers trying to solve the security problem for their apps and their APIs as they distribute their applications around a variety of different infrastructures. Certainly there are still a lot of private data centers out there, but applications moving into multiple public clouds to the edge. And most of the concerns we're seeing from customers is like how do I consistently secure all of that and protect both my apps and my APIs. And we're excited because we've launched a secure multi-cloud solution based on our distributed cloud platform that's specifically targeted at being able to provide consistent security policy end to end no matter where the app is running. So, and customers are really resonating with the idea of one policy goes anywhere that I take my app to. Brian, I want to dig in because you're the product guy. You've got the keys to the kingdom on the features, the customer and the engineering side of it. This is like a huge thing because the bad guys have to use the network. There are footprints that we're laying on. The network is the ultimate source of truth, but also it's an opportunity on both sides, the bad guys and the good guys. This has been a big theme. Everyone kind of knows that already. But the word distributed computing comes back more and more when we talk about the current cloud evolution. Today we reported that Dropbox is laying some people off like everybody else, but that's important because they were the first cloud native, first SaaS kind of crop of companies that were born in the cloud.  So that's points to this next gen cloud. Where networking is going to be a big part of it. What is that piece of the puzzle for distributed cloud? Because if you got public clouds to AWS and you got on-premise and now the edge, whether it's industrial or a windmill, that's distributed computing. So cloud ops has to run seamlessly in all that. That's the current definition of cloud. Why does F5's product work well in that environment when someone says, hey, how do you work in a distributed way? Well, we have our own regional edge infrastructure, but we also offer what we call customer edge node as well. So we're able to put our services anywhere the customer is, whether it's in a public cloud, in their private cloud. They can run in conjunction meshed with our infrastructure or just completely in their own mesh, but they get all the security services brought along with it and one of the big things with that is that it enables them to tap into the AI and ML analytics complex that we have powering our web app firewall and API security. How about that AI piece, what's in there? Well, traditionally, we've done well at network security. We've gotten good at five tuple ACLs, but application security and API security has been far too complex to really effectively secure it at massive scale. So thousands of policies of web app firewall or API security can be very onerous to operate, but when you get AI and ML involved, you can do the analysis not only of the application, but also of potentially malicious user intent that makes it a lot easier to secure the application layer, which is vulnerable because it's complex and gets targeted more and more by the attacker. Yeah, to add to it, I mean, I think that when we look at AI and ML, it's about protecting for things that haven't happened yet. Or they're happening to you the first time by looking at behavioral type characteristics. So we use all of the AI and ML for discovery of vulnerabilities based upon behavior, things that aren't in a signature and kind of a rule set in a traditional way. But the other thing we use it for is doing API discovery and really path discovery for an application. So giving the customer really, really unique visibility, but then also understanding what's a normal behavior for that application. Are there new APIs that have popped up that were unknown the day before? That's a concern, that's a potential security vulnerability that needs to be protected. This is an operational impact, expand on that. I think that's a huge point. And then there's benefits there too and consequences for not getting it right. Talk about the ops impact of what you just said. Yeah, so the ops impact, and it actually came through a customer conversation Brian and I had yesterday, he says, my app developers, right, they changed their application and then they changed the threat surface of the application without me as the security practitioner knowing it's going to happen. And so the operational impact is whether or not you've opened a door to an intruder without any protection. So this particular customer is very interested in the idea that we have constant visibility of what is a new path in the application, being able to discover that and being able to respond to it to make sure that the right security controls are in place. So operationally it's about not only just having visibility, but it's also being able to understand if it's creating a vulnerability with you. And that's a safeguard piece that you were just talking about. Right, right. Talk about the F5 solution. You brought this up before we came on camera about Kubernetes because you guys have a standard way to give policy or layer three through seven. Yeah. Networking, stability, what's the word? Reliability of performance. Take us through, this is a huge point because this is a big feature. Yeah, so in our distributed cloud, in our distributed cloud platform, we have a multitude of different ways to deliver our services. But fundamentally, if you have compute networking and storage, you can run one of the nodes for our distributed cloud platform, what we call a customer edge node. And you can employ that on bare metal, you can employ that on a hypervisor, any flavor of hypervisor, but we can also deploy as a pod inside of a multi-vendor Kubernetes infrastructure, right?  At that point in time, you have layer three through seven capabilities for that cluster. So you provide all the internet working capabilities with layer three, four controls like fast ACLs. We can do all your load balancing functions in and inside and out of the cluster. And then we can provide a full application security stack for web and API protection. So now all of a sudden, a Kubernetes node is really part of your infrastructure and has complete visibility and control through it. And who deploys it? The developer doesn't touch it or is there a network ops to it? Do they provision themselves? No, so it can be deployed as part of your tool chain for deployment. And by default, the policy that's defined for your organization gets automatically applied as part of that provisioning. So even those that are in operation or DevOps don't have to have security expertise to deploy the service securely for your application. There's jokes that put a network layer in there. It is full network layer, yeah. Yeah, okay, great. Now talk about the distributed application deployments that you're seeing from multi-cloud, because this comes up a lot. So what is multi-cloud? We call it super cloud because it's multiple environments, but it's app related to heavy duty application support needed. So you got network to app security needs, but it's on a hyperscaler cloud or an on-premise or edge or another multiple clouds. Essentially it's multiple, I don't say multi-vendor, multi-environment. But we'll call it multi-cloud. How do you guys look at that? What's your view of the definition and how does it render itself into a solution? Well, so our view of it, it's fundamental to modern applications. The modern applications are, first of all, we know broken into microservices and sometimes those microservices are running across a variety of infrastructure. And so the way we've built our solution is, is that regardless of where you deploy, we can provide the same visibility and control end to end, including if you move application workloads between clouds or between cloud or on-premise, on-premise the edge. So it's actually core to the way we've built our distributed cloud platform is the thought that in the name, the goal of a distributed cloud platform is to service distributed applications. And our view of everything is everything will be distributed much harder to secure, so also fundamental to the way we do it is to include security in everything we do. It seems like very political in the sense of the cloud players because now that cloud moves into this next gen, you're seeing examples of it with people building on top of clouds that don't have any CapEx, that have ecosystems, they have people developing on it. So you have Apple, like a robust app, modern app development environment, seeing that everywhere. That's going to make more complexity through the network. This is a really important point and it's almost as if the cloud should just, look at themselves, it's already won. You know, something like they've already kind of won. There's only four, right, three, maybe four, five. Okay, maybe three, two. Microsoft and Azure. And Google's coming up and up fast, which I like what they're doing. But generally, they've already won. So what's the issue? Like customers that I talked to all have multiple clouds, either by default from acquisitions or by accident, they didn't even know they had them. So like it's kind of like an environment. I don't think they woke up and said, we're going to build a multi-cloud strategy. I mean, that doesn't really, I haven't seen any of that going on other than that they've inherited the cloud. Yeah, we're clenching it from a security perspective. I'll take it from a visibility perspective. All right, on this or no? Yeah, so I mean, I think, part of this is just the pace of modern app development is so much faster than anything we've ever seen before. New apps, new APIs are just popping up all the time in a variety of different modes of operation and business value, right? So the thing of it is that that's happening so fast. Sometimes the developers are selecting the cloud without consulting their networking or security counterparts. And then in so doing, dragging network, making decisions about whether the security tools they're going to use because they're going to select whatever AWS or Azure offers as security tools and networking tools. So we're really seeking to solve that problem for the network and security operators to say, hey, we're not going to get in your way of choosing whatever cloud you want that might be most suitable for your application or API. But we are going to ask that you standardize on a certain type of security policy and networking capability. So you're basically saying, your clients saying, don't fight the tie, it's coming. Developers are driving everything, all right? That's pretty much, we've been reporting that. You guys would agree with the developer in charge. From an application productivity standpoint. Okay, so then that means that ops have to flex to that, enable that, guardrail it, policy, things that are automated. These are known concepts in networking. Okay, I see that, check, awesome. Why F5, what do you guys do differently than the competition? What's your approach? Why are you guys winning? Can you take this through that? Yeah, so simply, we have just a tremendously long positive heritage in delivering very sophisticated application visibility solutions, control solutions with our big IP load balancing product. And so we've taken all of those learnings and with our distributed cloud platform, we've applied that to more modern applications that are broken into microservices and distributed across multiple clouds. So first of all, our expertise in layer seven at the application layer, and not only for delivering reliability and at scale, but also securely, is what we're applying to the distributed cloud platform. I think why we're winning is uniquely we, in a lot of customer environments, they're spread across multiple clouds, they can't see their environment. They don't know where their involvement is. So the first thing we do in our solution, and I think it blows most customers' ways, we can give them end-to-end visibility of their entirety of the environment, right? And then the second thing is, because we have visibility, and we can put ourselves within the data path end-to-end, we can also provide all the security controls that they need to protect their applications. And I'll give you an example. We have customers in multiple clouds, they use the native security tools in those clouds, and then a security event like Log4J comes up. Now they have to go to each one of those individual native tools to configure a policy to be able to block a Log4J attack. With our distributed cloud solution, right, they have a policy that's in one place, irregardless of the cloud that they've deployed the application on. They just have to change the policy in one place, or even better yet, they get an automatic policy update, or a behavioral protection that protects all applications across multiple clouds. You've got three through seven stack, that's key, one key point, not just three or four, all layers. And you're end-to-end, you're embedded. You're just building an abstraction layer architecturally to see the data path, right? Yeah, so if you think of a customer... It's an architectural advantage. Yeah, if you think of a customer proudly showing their knock years ago, where they would show their big network map, right? It's very hard to show a network map anymore. While we actually out of the box, once you deploy our solution, we'll give you a full network map, all the way to layer seven of your particular application. That's really unique, that visibility that we provide. You make it more agile. Absolutely. While maintaining, so it's an architectural decision. And you've got the product to back it up. That seems to be the key. And now you've got the new AI over the top. Right, and I think the other reason we're winning is when you look at other web app and API protection vendors who are trying to offer layer three, four, DDoS protection, bot defense, web app firewall, and API security, you look at them and they're mostly rooted in a CDN platform. Whereas we're coming at it from this multi-cloud networking platform, managed Kubernetes environment that is designed from the ground up to address these new challenges. So we're bringing not only our pedigree and application security and delivery to this new platform, but we're doing it in a way that other vendors in the same space can't when it comes to security. You get the full suite, basically. So this is kind of like, remember the old days, moving up the stack, Cisco always got hammer for that. Like they could never move up the stack. The point solution layered products are probably eating the dust right now in this market because they can't have multiple views and they can't make the claim to be architecturally relevant in the constellation of the deployment. Whether you're putting it into Kubernetes pod or putting it in an app or in Azure. Yeah, yeah. Or even putting it in a traditional data center. So look, it is becoming a platform play, right? And I know that there's some positives and sometimes customers perceive some negatives about being part of a platform. But when you're doing what we're doing, we provide a layer three through seven stack. It's obvious that we're going to add more and more services to that stack. More and more controls, whether it be visibility, network layer controls, security controls. But what we're going to do is give you a simple way to deploy all those things with a similar look and feel and capability that's consistent across all those services. So we're going after somebody that is looking to lower their total cost of ownership by having a simpler way to do things. Yeah, and at the end of the day, they got to be secure. So the old perimeter is gone, but now the perimeter is replaced by embedded architecturally relevant stack. Yeah, you're virtualizing the perimeter as maybe a way to think about it, right? Like we can make the perimeter, as long as you're connected, the perimeter exists and you have control of the perimeter. The perimeter is always changing and it's dynamic. It's just the packet flows. However, you, but you guys ensure that because you got the end to end. You got the suite and three through seven gives you guys different approach. Exactly right. Yeah, I think this is going to be back to the programmable network. Remember the old kind of like self-healing? Sure. Remember the old self-healing network is programmable. But now you got APS and you got GNA. It's actually happening right now. And then data is going to be interesting. And one of the things that I'll end on with you guys get your thoughts because since we're looking at the current landscape and trying to project to the future is I put this out there during the KubeCon developer conference is that developers are flipping the script. You guys highlighted that earlier. What if they flip the script on how to program the data and then the network? So developers are kind of shifting left and kind of being enabled. But what if they can decide how to program the data? Meaning that means where it's stored, how data is stored and managed. Most of the database folks handle that piece. What if the developers could decide where data is stored? And so this brings up kind of a rethinking of what you guys are, how you guys are looking at which is you're not changing networking. You just rethinking it a little bit. That's kind of what's happening. And look, I mean, I think you're hitting on a key point with some of the privacy laws, data sovereignty, data localization, having a global footprint of an infrastructure and being able to see traffic globally and being able to manage traffic globally. Gives us a very unique way to be able to deal with any customer requirements they have about where their data goes as it transits the global. I'm a big believer in de facto standards. You look at all the major success stories over the years, things become de facto and you enable people to do their jobs. Right now from here and security and network and then app space, people just want to get busy doing their job, right? Here it's the threat detection, the prevention, remediation, they don't want to spend time configuring machines, and you guys enable that by having some reliability. And one of the things that we're really bringing to bear in the distributed cloud platform when it comes to the security component is that our customers that are onboarding, they're going into blocking mode right away. Which is something that not a lot of our competitors can claim and we can do it not just for traditional web applications but for APIs as well. So we're incredibly API fluent, which I think we all acknowledge that's where things are going. We're going to say apps in the future but we're really going to mean APIs. That's really how we're going to keep pace. And speed and agility is key because there's something to say of preaches that's going on. You can look at critical systems and go sequence into, okay shut down those, let's keep those up and running, let's lock and contain. It's very much network is the key strategy, piece of it, big piece of the puzzle, the piece. Yeah, yeah. Guys thanks for coming on theCUBE, really appreciate it, F5, great stack, three through seven layers across end to end data suite of infrastructure for developers, it's cloud native, multi-cloud, super cloud. This is theCUBE here at RSA, I'm John Furrier, host. We'll be right back with more after this short break.


Well, it's going on everyone Sam here with late in sports cards, and I am ripping Two boxes of 2021-22 topsy-wafa champions league stadium club chrome soccer hobby for human H So good luck human See what we got buddy Box no So I won't be sleeving all of the refractors right now I will denote it so the sorters and shippers know to sleeve them But I will sleeve all the numbered stuff and all of your heads and such Just not all the base refractors. I'll make a pile though Graven birch base not numbered Graven birch again on the back. I ax base chavi on the back there That's the boy right there Barça base Well, I'm literally watching a replay of the Red Sox Raze game because that's like all that's on got Real-time Brendan Aronson got refractor. That is manual newer for Byron Munich base that's a championship come contributions most solid and Real-time Leroy, Sonny don't remind you wait did they end up losing? I didn't really pay attention We we ended up watching the WNBA So I wasn't paying attention really base pink new new Mendez. I believe these are not numbered yep new new Mendez nice Graven birch refractor base Rich Hill yeah, but I saw that I was like wait a second. I forgot he was on the Red Sox Got Kevin de Bruyay boom on the beam team auto congrats human heck yeah, let's go That's so nasty 35 out of 199 and then the KDB Second one we pulled today out of this. Let's go Oh Heck yeah, that'll get mag for you Got a gobby rookie some KDB heat Not expecting that one right there. I got to be honest with you base Vinnie jr. On the green to 199 this Wave that's to seven or to 25 orange wave Roberto Carlos nice Real Madrid Heck yeah, man. Good box you're putting together for yourself base got refractor Timo Verner Von Romero Refractor is Karam out of yummy Salisbury Niko Gonzalez base base and last pack of box one then we'll get ourselves right into box two Got refractor Harvey Elliot nice for Liverpool. Heck yeah and base Let me grab a box or a basket really quick So we know what goes where I'll move some base out of the way as well explain von Now today's Wednesday, right? wait, oh I got you cuz technically it's Wednesday, but I Got you. Yeah, that's true.  I'll be top loading on Thursday. I'm gonna be a heck of a time We'll have that game on love that game on for hours before it even starts. I bet Got night vision Luis Muriel that is to 175 for Adelanza base Not them two crazy yet so far God that is Weston McKenney not numbered on the refractor Name our base look Haku for Chelsea on the championship's contributions base behind that That is wave of Eric, Jr. Dina and beam Bay for PSG that is 72 out of 250 fracter is Charles the catalari for club Rouge and We got a gobby rookie on the back Barcelona. It's got Francisco Cornish how it's pretty strong I would say Cody pretty strong Lot of people love it. Obviously got Pierre Koolaloo on the Thought that was a red, but now that's the pink right there the pink short print not numbered Yeah, a lot of people love soccer cards gotten very big over the last few years at least card wise Obviously the sports the most popular in the world, but it's market value has really started to skyrocket Got Muhammad Kudus on the refractor auto that is Iax Not numbered nice hit there for you got refractor of Joe Felix base up Joshua Got a glimpse of gold Eduardo comma vinga free Alma dread nice on the insert there saying soccer wise now Got Felix mama bimby for BSC young boys on the glimpse of gold base Yeah, I agree with it. I agree with that Got refractor Killian in bop a for PSG nice There you go. Human hack. Yeah, I'm the imbop a refractor base Couple packs to go Lissich on the back and last pack for your human refractor is Alfonso Davis or Davies for Bayern Munich and Base that'll do it for your break there Human congrats on all the hits. We'll get them right out to you. Thanks again, buddy


Yeah, that's Bloomberg. I got the root Reuters Reuters one. I'll throw that in That's probably worth a do you want to drop one of the discussion? Yeah, that's that's worth a discussion Well, what was the weaker one one of those last two Tevo Tevo or screen time You guys I say job Tevo. Yeah. Yeah, Tevo is really more of a quick hit I put it in because I have things I can say yeah, but it's not as wide-ranging Okay So let me Let me I'm doing a little editorial reorder here Roger and it's gonna mess up your times. Oh, okay So just give me one second. Yeah, I am Stream started just a minute. Oh hi stream Hey stream How's it going? Well, it's real foggy out here at the beach today, which is not a bad thing. Is it still foggy right now? Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I never came out and cut not cold but sort of It's starting to feel slightly wintery Which is nice. Nice times now Roger.  You got it So Justin about your beard. Yeah Just gonna start up a conversation about your beard. Yeah, my beard. I'm thinking about taking it down I got a wedding next weekend. So I'm due for a little bit of a haircut and a beard trim But I'm thinking about going Fairly short like having the reign of the big the the the the the Mountain Man beard kind of Taken down to a respectable level. Yeah, is that still like a thing the big Bushy Roger two minutes on that Tesla. I think because there's not much known quite yet. Yeah No, it's pretty much just it happened and it happened for the reason that you would assume it happened And that was rumored for it to have happened. Yeah, and we don't even have a copy of the of the actual I got it the actual complaint Yeah, the United States district court southern district in New York Do you have a copy like like the actual filing like yeah, I can send here. I'll put it in though Yeah, put that in the slack. It's a it's a script in the CNBC. Awesome. Good job CNBC scooped up Reuters We're just oh there it is. All right, I'm gonna put this in Lynn um Tom house the house besides the studio Pretty great. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, I'm like Tell me something real casual well, you know one thing I love about the house is it's a great place to read the Filing in the United States District Court SEC perfect Like you've got the right house. No yesterday I had the electrician over and fixed an outlet that was that had gone bad and We hooked up our lights. We have these Edison lights in the backyard and so we sat out there and had a little glass of wine I Conduct alleged in this complaint must violated and unless restrained and enjoined will violate again it says Miss Lane, would you care to read the opening statement? I would I would okay, let's go in 25 Okay, and Justin you ready? I'm ready to roll. All right 15 seconds 15 seconds to read your script Here we go and it's gonna be fun I'm gonna love it. You're gonna love it. Everybody's gonna love it. I'm gonna six five four three two one Thanks to everyone who supports daily tech news show directly to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Thursday September 27th 2018 in Los Angeles on time merit and from studio feline. I'm Sarah Lane Moklin, California. I'm Justin Robert young and from the fringes of the LA Empire. I'm Roger J We I've got a little breaking news to talk about regarding Tesla We're gonna get into speculation about what all we think Amazon's up to with retail as they go and venture out beyond Just bookstores, but let's start with a few tech things you should know That reprieve for a classic Skype is about to end Microsoft says it will stop supporting Skype 7.0 on the desktop November 1st and on mobile starting on November 15th It will still be usable for a little while. That's the company's terms after that according to an editor's note on the blog Estonia's police and border guard board is requiring ID card producer gem Alto to pay a hundred and fifty two million euro penalty After seven hundred thousand ID cards were found to have gender were found to have generated the cards code keys In a way that they could be stolen Private codes should be generated on the card ship to ensure security And security researchers at duo discovered a vulnerability in the Apple interface used to enroll Apple devices in Mobile device management systems or MDMs something you use in the enterprise when you want to have a bunch of company iPhones All enrolled at the same time you can roll out your custom apps, etc The researchers spoofed serial numbers of enrolled devices to connect malicious devices They were pretending to be the enrolled devices And then they were able to do all kinds of stuff. Yeah, look at look at company mail, etc Gain basically trusted access Apple's device enrollment protocol supports authentication, but it doesn't require it So if you make it happen then you wouldn't be vulnerable to this But since Apple doesn't force you to a company might not have it turned on the researchers warn that serial numbers alone Should not be relied on to a let devices join corporate networks. All right Let's talk about this breaking news Justin Yes, the US security and exchange commission has filed a lawsuit on Thursday against Tesla CEO Elon Musk Alleging securities fraud the lawsuit was filed in the US district court in Manhattan Happened for the reason that you think Going private at 420 funding secured turns out that is fraud in the eye Yeah, and the case says in truth and in fact Musk had not even discussed much less confirmed key deal terms including price with any potential funding source So coming in hard with with this this filing, they're not saying like well This this kind of went over the line. They're saying this was fraud Plain and simple now It's up to the court to decide if they're right with that with those claims, but but this is not a tepid response No, it is it is not Musk has Explained that whole fiasco, which obviously did not happen that this was the there's word advanced talks with The Saudi Arabian wealth fund for which I assume considering how much money they are sitting on Probably felt that there was not going to be much of a haggling at a fairly at the price that he set But still rules are rules and this is what the SEC is gonna sue him for yeah And and musk still believes that what he said wasn't false. He is like yeah, no I had it mostly arranged, but and this is why you have courts There's a difference between what you intend and what people read anybody who studies semiotics You know knows it as a sign signal and signified What musk may have meant doesn't matter It's what people thought he meant when they read his statements And it makes a pretty compelling case in this filing that what he said was in fact misleading An Australian teenager who hacked Apple systems over several months and downloaded sensitive data has avoided jail time now The adult was 16 years old at the time that the hacking began So it was a minor at the time Accessed Apple's internal systems and copied around a terabyte of data and authentication keys and magistrate told a children's court in Australia now Apple contacted the FBI and Australian police subsequently raided his home Apple then said the customer's personal data that that customer's personal data was not compromised and that staff had discovered the unauthorized Access contained it and reported it to law enforcements This is the hacky hack hack kid, right? That was the name of the folder that he Yeah, I mean well in the whole you know, you know his defense attorney You know sort of said like he was a child. He's just like really into Apple and was like so excited about Apple that he you know Wanted to see how far he could get which is not necessarily false But the fact that he was at a minor at the time is is working in his favor very much So this is pure 80s style hacking. This is this is not malicious hacking. This is hacking I'm I'm comfortable calling this hacking because He broke the law. Yeah, I didn't mean to hurt anyone He wasn't out to leak this stuff sell this stuff and I'm not trying to justify it or say you shouldn't you know You know pay the pay for the crime or whatever But this is someone who really just wanted to see what he could do and once he got in kind of got high on the like Man, I'm kind of like an Apple employee right now. How cool is that? I I understand that is what I'm saying Well, and this is the happy ending right rules are rules you violate the law You do need to face repercussions, but like you said, it's not like he immediately went to Some board where he was trying to sell the information as far as all available law enforcement investigation into this can turn up This was him trying to prove his hacking prowess I'm glad he's avoiding jail time for for that crime. We don't we don't know his name It's protected by Australian law, but there would be a free hacky hack hack kid Campaign of if he went to jail and this is a better way to treat it. Also, you know, Apple maybe hire him. He's pretty good Hey folks, this is a big story today If an advertiser has legitimate info about you Facebook lets that advertiser Target people who list that info in Facebook. So for example, you've given your phone number to the plumber and The plumber has a list of phone numbers of his clients and goes to Facebook and says hey I want to advertise a 20% coupon to everybody who has this phone number so far so good, but Facebook Only knows your phone number By your admission if it's in your profile info which some people do that not everybody does but some people do that however, Facebook also will use info you provided for security reasons and info That other people have about you in their context that maybe you never gave Facebook in the first case You're giving info for a single and important purpose security and it's being targeted To you to advertise to you in the other case You gave it to a friend and you don't have any control over it being used to target you and in fact Facebook claims It would be illegal to give you control because that's information in somebody else's profile Here at Hari Ven Kadari Piotr Sapiensky and Alan Mislove of Northeastern University along with Elena Luccherini of Princeton University Tested this thoroughly and report their findings in a paper published in the proceedings on privacy Enhancing technologies. So this is in a Buzzfeed report has a source who says this is we tried it out Rigorously using controlled circumstances where we only knew this phone number would show up if it was Causing one of these things to happen a Facebook spokesperson said yeah We use the information people provide to offer a more personalized experience Including showing more relevant ads and users can and I'll add you should use something besides a phone number for two-factor authentication If they wish well, okay So so the fact that Facebook is doing this once you you know You need Facebook statement is like we're not denying that this is happening But here's why we're doing it and it's because it's for you know that the greater good of Our users and and and and data in general. Okay. Well, so how should they have done this differently? Should they have spelled out a little bit more clearly? Yeah, if you do you like to fa for you know With a phone number or something like that where you give this information to a friend. This might end up in an advertiser's Territory and you didn't know about it. I mean what how could they have don't use it communicated it differently Don't use it. No That is the only reason to use that phone number that is it it's for security only nothing else Well, okay, so but but but so my question stands is Facebook should have said This is going to be used in a different way. Are you okay with this? They didn't at least if they're gonna do it anyway, they should have told you yeah When you set up to FA which is another step that people have to take and that there are many ways that you can do to FA on Facebook one of them is with your phone number that they should have some sort of little checkbox that lets you know Hey, I under I here to for understand that this will be used to target relevant or to make honestly That will dissuade experience that will dissuade people from setting up security. Yeah, here's my thing to you though this yes, you can complain at Nauseam why it does not benefit the scorpion to sting the frog in the middle of the pond, but Folks, I think I think this is different though. This is playing with security It's one thing to say like hey, we're Facebook. Of course, we're gonna advertise to you And it's another thing to actually use something that requires trust like we're this is for security For a business purpose.  Don't worry. We won't post this anywhere We'll never go to your newsfeed.  Yeah, they shouldn't be targeting you on your first pet They shouldn't be using it to datamine you That's shouldn't be having the big forever Also, the real quickly the other one is more nefarious where it's like I have no control over you I gave Justin my phone number, right? Justin uploads his contacts to Facebook without asking me Why should he he was using it to make it easier to use Facebook? And now Facebook is targeting me with that information Which I have no control over and they tell me we can't give you control over it that one gets me to The problem that Facebook faces is that as people learn more about how they make money and learn more about ad targeting I believe the more they will be freaked out about it And on these edge cases where yes, there is a good moral debate I think these are the the the matches that light a much larger fire that an educated Userbase can react to and I don't think the security ones a moral debate. We could go on forever about that. Sure a Recent we just had a moral debate. All right moving on a research study the Len set child an adolescent health journal Found that children aged 8 to 11 who limit recreational use of screens for less than two hours a day performed better in tests of mental ability The study only found a correlation that indicates further study is needed to discover causes and differentiate among type of Recreational screen use there was some indication that video games and educational videos might have cognitive benefits the study surveyed for Is it 45,000 45 for 4500 4500 children with a questionnaire and administered cognitive tests So really it's it's not that the screen time is harmful It's that too much screen time is is is seeming to be harmful and that's actually, you know, and and that's an interesting thing It's like well, I mean none of us are children But I mean even as adults I think that there's there's a lot of merit to the the idea Sorry not to be funny, but there's there's there is there's a lot To take away from the idea of yes having this information is helpful Yes gaming can be you know good for your cognitive skills, but too much of it may take away from Other things well, and it's not just too much It's the type right in fact that what they found was that video games might actually have cognitive benefits And that's the other thing is this is a study that found a correlation They're not saying any of it means anything yet They're saying this indicates that maybe you should limit screen time if you want to be safe And we should proceed with more studies and more rigorous studies to figure out exactly What all of this means but at the very least it's that Outside of educational stuff limiting screen time probably on the safe side of things I also wonder how much of this is also a leading indicator of a Relationship between parents or children being acknowledged that that It larger screen time could often also mean that they're not being engaged by their family that that that at least Somebody that does not have that kind of screen time. So I think that this is an interesting set an interesting data point but I do wonder of What what we're gonna learn the fuller picture of yeah The indications the video games and educational videos might have cognitive benefits Would would be that differentiator like is it just that they're using a screen or is it what they're doing on it?  I actually really liked my surface book and I remember when Paul throughout was out there Complaining about it being buggy because there were there were some problems with USB. There were problems with device drivers and blue screens of death I just never really ran into them that often not saying I never ran into them I can't imagine if if it's even more reliable than that This is maybe I maybe I should go back and try out a surface book too because I really liked the surface book as it was and it was a little slow and the power fan ran too often and stuff like that so This is great news for Microsoft Sure, I think Obviously, there is a a place for the surface line for a lot of people that are fully plugged into a PC ecosystem And I'm glad that consumer reports is recommending them. However, I just I don't know I know that that you have Tom, you know, there's probably more than anybody as somebody who has been at this tech news game for a very long time consumer reports more or less news stories in the last five years about them not recommending stuff than Previous five years or the same. That's a good question. I wouldn't want to answer it without taking a look The perception is very much what you're hinting at with your question You know is that there are more of them? But I don't know if that's just because we have more technology devices now And we're seeing those those stories crop up as technology becomes more mainstream Hey folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines dot-com All right Amazon announced the Amazon four-star store Which honestly to me sounds like it ought to be like a donut shop or a restaurant Also, like wouldn't it be a five-star? Well, anyway, Amazon four-star noodles, right? It's like four star meaning not five star five star. I know there's that aspect too, right? Like so it's the stuff that's okay It's pretty good I'm sure they're gonna have a five-star corner like you have to be this tall to ride and and I guess the average is Well above four of the products, but let me get to the point of the store it's opening in New York and Nothing below four stars rated on Amazon gets in the store unless it's a top seller or it's new in trending on Amazon They'll make some exceptions in those cases, but most of those are usually four stars as well Store is open 10 a.m. To 9 p.m. Monday through Saturday 11 a.m. To 8 p.m. On Sundays It's on Spring Street and so ho shoppers who are prime members will pay the Amazon comm price for their purchases If you're not a prime member though You pay a list price which is almost always more expensive Although they'll sign you up to be a prime member right there in the store. So there you go It's a very expensive lost leader To get you to sign up for Amazon Prime But yeah, the idea is like we know these are the things New Yorkers are buying So we're gonna have a section on like hot trending items in New York We know that these are just totally good items overall on the Amazon store. So we're gonna stock that stuff It makes sense from that end going in does it make sense as a shopper as to why you decide to go into this store Well, you know, you mentioned Spring Street in Soho Tom and which is that anybody who hasn't been to Manhattan It's a huge shopping area. There's you know, all all the boutiques are down in Soho So the idea that you would get a lot of foot traffic into the store that that's part of it If you can convert a lot of people who are not prime members to being prime members because they're gonna get discount because they're already there You know, and they want to buy this item that's, you know, four stars or you know, new and trendy and whatever Okay, that's fine. The lost leader part of it is is is real but Amazon's got the money So I it seems to me that Amazon is saying, all right, let's let's put a store in a huge traffic area And see how many people we can convert into prime members I am here for every inch of this gimmickry That's what I think it is the idea the four star thing is something that is just it's a conversation starter It implies. Oh, this is quality. This isn't just Amazon trying to put stuff in there It also gets away from we talked earlier about Facebook and the idea of a user base Understanding exactly how ads get targeted to you. It leads away from Amazon saying we know what you want Come and buy it from us, which is a creepier kind of initial selling point So it just says look we know quality enough people have bought all these things that Other humans like you yeah, right That they've decided that this is it we have long talked about what an amazon retail play was and we and we began to see it With the bookstores. Uh, well, we obviously saw a gigantic purchase in Whole Foods And we have another story about that that we can get to in a second, uh, but I think that amazon should get creative with stuff like this instead of going headlong into now. Here's the Amazon does best buy Thing then do fun ideas like this. I think that it is it is it is a great idea for amazon It's the boutique shop as soon as as soon as sara used those words It all fell into place for me and and folks who haven't been to spring street like sections Which exist in most major cities? I've seen it in st. Louis and I've seen it in detroit Uh, it's and it's not just a new york thing. There are those shops that just have lots of cool funky items And they'll have a little kitchen section and they'll have a little pet section and it's you know Lots of clothes nifty clothes and french pillows that are way over expensive This is that store. This is amazon's version of that store. Like here's cute cool funky items That usually are curated by a person who runs the store who has great taste in this case It's curated by amazon employees who are looking at the incredibly long list of four four-star and above items and picking stuff and by the way, there's a little red herring going on out there Where people are like, oh, so if I game the system I can get in the store granted They are not going to pick something just because you get four stars or above doesn't mean you get in the store They're going to be picking what goes in Although if it did match what they wanted to sell and they could get it in quantity Which is another reason then it gives them the ability to get advantage of a viral kind of moment like that Sure, sure. I'd so so what else before we move on, uh, what what what else could they do? So they've got a boutique shop. They've got a bookstore. They've got a grocery store and Whole Foods Um, they multiple grocery stores, right? I was on go Their quarters on go, right? Yeah I you know This whole idea of having a brick and mortar store in a you know It in an area of new work where you got a lot of tourists You got a lot of foot traffic You got a lot of people who at least come in and browse Well, you can't have all of amazon store in there. Is it going to be a grocery store? Well, no, that doesn't really make sense either, right?  Not groceries So it makes sense that amazon was like, okay Well, how do we limit this to something that we could put into a store that makes sense? We'll call it the four star store It's all the you know the stuff that's really popular on amazon Which is kind of funny because amazon the whole idea is that it's like What's popular for justin or tom might not be popular for me and that's fine And that's how amazon works really well, but the best of the best Well, and they're also doing the these items are often purchased together in store that too So you can pick them up as a bundle. I think a hardware store would be a good play for them Oh, you want to know what I was actually thinking that's probably a lot of the four star stuff I'm thinking office supplies It's like a lot of the essential stuff that they do their own version of Because you wouldn't have you wouldn't have to have a ton of foot space unlike of office max or uh, Whatever like you could literally just have a little like hey, what do I need gigantic reams of paper? Come on over pick it up and to say it Uh clothing shop, you know, they have a lot of amazon basics clothing Uh real quickly as before we move on gizmodo obtained a 45 minute video sent from amazon to whole foods team leaders advising them How to combat union organization? Saying our business model is built upon speed innovation and customer obsession things that are generally not associated with unions Man they might have a point, but you're gonna you're gonna upset some people by saying don't expect Don't expect there to be union shops in any of these retail outlets Hey, thanks everybody who participates in our subreddit. It's our union of sorts. Um, but we're you know, they'd I don't know Don't strike just keep submitting stories and voting on others at daily tech news at reddit.com We're also on facebook. In fact, you don't have to choose between the two you can hang on both places Facebook.com slash groups slash daily tech news show Email us do the emails and sarah will read one like this one. Uh, correct We read an email from rohan yesterday. I wasn't on the show But uh said google was missing out on the smart home market by focusing on the tech Instead of the functionality in response eric wrote in today and said I also think that google is missing an opportunity on a smart home product I would love to see they're in a unique position to create it google makes the nest protect smoke detector A mesh wi-fi system and a smart assistant I'd love to see these three things combined into one product one device You can mount on the ceiling in most rooms. It would give you a house-wide smoke detection mesh wi-fi and smart assistant Especially if google could find a way to price this device in the range of 200 to 250 dollars I like this idea The voice assistant kind of goes without saying with all this smart stuff and and definitely need would need to be included But having smoke detector carbon monoxide detectors that are also mesh wi-fi repeaters I don't know if there's logistical reasons why you couldn't do that, but that makes so much sense to me If my eros were also carbon monoxide detectors That just saves me a few outlets and stuff that batteries I'd have to change and stuff Love this Uh, I do too. Um, thank you very much eric for the follow up And thank you also to justin robert young for being with us this fine thursday, justin. What has been going on with you?  If you see a little bird on it, then uh, that's me and uh, We're gonna have a little bonus episode that'll go up today with my reaction to both sides of the hearing And my thought on whether or not we will have a new supreme court justice Over the next few days go ahead and check it out So yesterday, uh, I thanked everyone for pushing us up above the mark of having one more patron than last month And said let's see how many more we can have and we uh, immediately lost five people So, uh, maybe I should just project more panic We are still one more patron than last month, but will it last We have to sustain it for three more days. Anyway, uh, there's lots of cool reasons to support us directly Please explore them at patreon.com slash d t n s and don't forget I'm going to be at the outlier podcast festival september 30th at 1 p.m In los angeles doing a workshop on preparing content for your podcast. Check it out at outlier cs com that's o u t l i e r cs.com We love your feedback. Our email address is a great way to give us feedback feedback at daily tech news show at dot com We're also live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 2030 utc if you can join us live It's a lot of fun find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live It's our september roundtable tomorrow. We're going to be talking hardware with ryan shroud patrick norton and len parolta We'll be there too. Talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frog pants dot com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this program I don't know what happened What do you mean? But that show is only 28 minutes and 49 seconds long Wait I didn't know I know I didn't even think about it till just now when I pressed the stop button I'm like I thought we went long. Yeah, I kind of thought so too. I thought we were no I thought we were right on time. I thought so too If anything, I thought we were like 31 32 not not like super long but Yeah, because I thought the facebook the red light was on for facebook for a while Yeah, I know you guys went like two and a half minutes over on that. I know Oh, well, I know we barely. Yeah, we didn't really get much on the you guys when you're having fun Matt, how do they work? Maybe we've bent uh Space time Isn't that like the standard sci-fi trope? It's about time you we're outside of spacetime I've gone become unstucked I don't know what to make it Angela landsbury. Okay. I'm not doing well. Elon musk I'm not reading a story about Angela landsbury, but I hope she's doing great. I'm sure she is Uh, I actually went I went into a little deep dive about Angela landsbury Not too long ago. It was secure Well in san francisco I am within the last like three years like that lady is killing it. No, she is still Up and about doing shows and doing events and things. It's amazing and she's 90 something That's a born 92 years old Ready to well, you know She's out there with betty white and like, you know, someone who's seen how many Like three at least three generations of actors Now what when murder she wrote was on the air for the first time were we all watching it? Yeah, my mother was I never I never did It was a little too old for me. I didn't seek it out But it was being watched and I was always interested when it was I don't and I don't mean old old Just like it was adult in a way where I was I watched it because my mom watched it. Yeah, that's kind of part of the uh that and a matlock power hours matlock rights. Yeah other You know aged person who solved crimes. Well, okay. So it was like murder. She wrote matlock LA law was that the same kind of time? I would say so. Yeah, so murder she wrote airs from 1984 to 1996. Hello. Okay. Oh my goodness. Wow. That's quite a run Okay, uh, but then 1997 she's just been at the theater Well, angela, I salute you Her most most recently in december 2017 lands where I took the role of aunt march In the bbc television episode mini series little women Oh, little women. Oh, also, she's in the new mary poppins returns She's not Dick van dyke who's also in it. Well, what's the disney movie? She was What is who is she? She's not mary poppins Wait a minute. She reprises her character for bed knobs and broomsticks. Oh my god. I'm here for that That was my favorite. Come here, buddy That would be great if she played that same character number one How bed knobs and broomsticks has not been rebooted just so you can do A family friendly everyone can get excited about suits of magical suits of armor punching a nazi in a throat Real scene from bed knobs and broomstick The best I always didn't think of bed knobs and broomsticks. It wasn't the first time I saw it But when we visited my uncle herald in alabama after he moved from tennessee Uh, the first thing we did when we got there is they put us down in his basement because he had cable television And they're like here just uh, we're gonna be doing adult things upstairs You just watch the cable television and we watched bed knobs and broomsticks on on w tbs the super station Oh, holy crap a stage musical adaptation of bed knobs and broomsticks is set to debut in 2019 That's the first step and then it becomes a movie out of that Again You're on your way When I say adult things, I'm not trying to be euphemistic Talking about nt 17 things. Yeah, I don't know what they were doing things that kids don't do probably talking about their Plain plain bridge Is don't come upstairs. No, I wasn't like that. That's what I'm trying to not say They were they were balancing their checkbooks No, they just wanted to be able to curse. They wanted to be able to While balancing their check, they were probably sharing stories about your family. They didn't want you to know something like that Yeah, there you go Oh man, and at the truth, you know cousin wade You get to a certain age and like everyone's like, oh, you didn't know that cousin wade was like You know had gone to prison several times. You're like, did you realize cousin wade is your uncle? Hey, roger, what's the title of the show? Hacky make hack hack Well Hold on. Let me look. Um, I could show but there is there's also four store four star store is good enough Good enough Good enough for amazon. It's good enough for me No spamming the reviews here and amazon's four star lost leader Make a four star Uh No, I just tell I tell me what it is. What is it amazon's four star lost leader? I like it I like it sounds like something from star search Oh star search So bent knobs and broomsticks currently unavailable to stream But you can purchase it uh from amazon apple or google And rent it from youtube and sony I would take a guess that that's probably gonna be on the disney thing when they launch it. Oh, yeah Uh, justin did we talk about flora bamashore? Before and are you watching it or no? Uh, I I have not watched flora bamashore. Uh, But Is it is it good? No Oh, no, no, no, but it's so bad that it's I want to talk about it with somebody. I know I can watch well, so I only know about that show because it was parodied on snl When I before that point I did not realize it was an actual show So here's the funny thing about the show. It's an mtv show, right? And the idea of flora brama is like, it's you know, the panhandle of florida, which is, you know tom mentioned, uh, alabama earlier So I it was in my mind and and it's basically panama city people party and that's what it is. Yeah, but You know, and it's a real world type of thing where a bunch of strangers are now living in a house and getting to know each other but like They all really love each other in a way that I find Really sort of adorable and endearing even though the entire show is about like, let's go party and get drunk You know night after night where that's um We we've done this show a million times, but I kind of love these people It that that's that's the that that was kind of always the secret sauce with jersey shore, right? Is that Yes, that you you you you actually you you start sort of getting attached to the fact that they They really do seem like they're friends That that was it was funny because I was reading in oral history the first the original seasons of of jersey shore and which Either either the producer or or one of the cast made mention that The show really Comes together because it's when they like the the debauchery is the debauchery and that's what everybody's going to talk about But for people to come back They're unsympathetic unless you have Those scenes on sunday when they all cooked dinner together And you know and they they say we're not friends. We're family Yeah, and then and everyone's kind of half hungover and at some point Somebody says like hey bro. Look, you know, I really wasn't I you know, I didn't mean it bro. You know, you know, you're my family bro, uh Like and that's it That's the pasta Yeah, um, yeah, honestly, it's the same reason I enjoy terrace house Right totally different in every other way, right? They don't scream at each other It's always like you do not have enough goals. You're making me cry Um, you know, it's a totally different dynamic But it is that you get the the feeling that these people really will care about each other. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, and they get really sad when one of them leaves the house and they all like stand around and cry and Goodbye parties and I mean I and and let me you know, again not to sugarcoat it Flour ban were sure is not a good show Um, it's it's it is not it is exactly what you think it's going to be But it's somehow endearing in a way where I'm like, I kind of Yeah, like I want to like I like these people. This is what my one Instructor at the community college I went to talked about like television production. Whatever you do documentary scripted drama Reality show it's got to have heart. It has to have that one hook. There you go. It makes you emotionally connected to whatever happens on the screen Well, and I think, you know, you know a lot of us who have worked on shows in the past that are like Not reality shows but shows that are based on people's real personalities We we understand the value of that It's that there there is there is something to that not only for the people on the show But for the people off of the show who say I think I know you and I like that Well, those those shows are always You're always modeling either who you are and who your friends are If you've ever known somebody like that if there's ever been a time in your life Where these kind of things are there and nobody wants to remember The ugly moments they want to remember they they want you want to think good about these people You want to if you're modeling them on yourself, which is just human behavior Then you want them to be like, oh, this is like that fun crazy time that like now that Either either I I'm going through it now or I can relate to it in the past where it's like, okay But I would like friends like that if they all came together and and said Bro, we're family bro. You know that. Well, you know that that's the thing like flawed people aren't just generally a lot more I wouldn't say charismatic but a lot more engaging otherwise known as people everybody That's why I'm well tortured artists. I You could you could heroes were always well, they might have their flaws. They were just, you know They were there was a set standard They could have they could never fall off the pedestal of being a hero and then, you know over time You know All the flaws are what became what made the hero instead of despite them And so it's it's a very interesting You know thing I see About, uh, you know the way people look up or look at people speaking of floor. Well, Thor Bama That's me going to going away from floor Bama shore for a second Although I can't wait to go to Panama City one day. Wow. It still sounds like a honky tonk Like bar you would go. Uh, you can wait No, right. Yeah. Well, yeah, again, I'll get there someday.  Um, I had never seen the kenya episode of parts unknown And I don't know if if any of you have But um, he had another it was another cnn host or somebody who who does um Was that was that the the w camo bell episode? It was. Yes. Thank you And I I just hadn't seen it. Um, and it is very moving Really like if you like, you know knowing about kenya and and furries and and and, you know Nairobi and the whole thing but it is um It is really I don't know. I was quite moved by it. I watched it yesterday And if anyone hasn't seen it and likes that sort of content, um, I would Highly recommend it. I just wrapped up the second season season of glow last night And I love the show. It's so good. I know it's this is the thing I watched glow as a kid when it was on saturday morning tv And then made its slow trek to like 1 a.m You know in the morning, you know for some reason Uh, but it's it I love it. It's just like, you know, it's a mixture Of many things, but it's what you were saying It's like you feel connected to all the cast members in some in some facet and because I'm of that era of that generation a lot of the stuff that they do Probably resonates more with me than say someone who might have missed it or only comes from it looking Back at is as straight as uh, soulless history instead of like oh something you live through Well, and I didn't realize that it was even based on anything I mean it could be it could be total fiction as far as I'm concerned and I still think it's a great show I just it's funny because I see all the characters and it's a dramatization Uh of the actual glow series that was done in the 80s for anyone who doesn't know gorgeous ladies of wrestling Uh, it was already kitschy wrestling show that they did with all fee all female cast of wrestlers one of the things besides the that they were all women one of the Things that they did was a hook was before the match all the the contestants would rap before so if they're two people facing off Each one would give their kind of really bad Musical rap before they got in the ring and then you would have like these really this corny announcer who was also I found out was the producer of the show Um Would do all these things or say all these things that in a very tongue-in-cheek manner So everything was very light-hearted Even though if you know the audience was like 99% like a bunch of male guys So, uh, uh, well when you call something gorgeous ladies of wrestling No, no, I let me I'll add this one thing one of my mom's waitresses love that show See, I love it more than the w w f back when it was w w f Because I think the women are more real I think they're more into wrestling than the guys are And that was why she liked it But uh, roger have you seen the doc on that? Yes. Yes. I have seen it. It's great with, uh, mount fiji At the that that kind of secondary story they do into it Oh, yeah, no, it's it's awesome And by the way, if you if you haven't ever seen the original glow, there's episodes on YouTube that are There's a lot. I mean, I don't know to bore everybody about wrestling storytelling my my grand unifying theory on it But I think there's a lot of stuff that they did in glow to cover up for the fact that the women We're by and large actresses and stunt women and we're not trained wrestlers Or we're learning we're coming up to speed very quickly on it that I think is brilliant and and probably could be employed in Uh, a more modern context, but that show is great and I have really been I like the the sexual harassment a subplot of that Season of the second season and specifically who falls down on whose side and then a revelation that I won't give toward the end uh Of two characters kind of having a moment and the and the fallout from it Like that was at something that's like really stuck with me is like one of my favorite things that I've watched on television Uh, this year. I will have a hard time thinking of of a season of television that I thought was as well told and fun and true to its true to itself As as glow season two was yeah, you know What's amazing is I was surprised at how the the utter lack of cynicism In in the characters like of themselves. There was no kind of duplicitous Nature where someone comes out the end of the season. Ah, I'm the villain kind of think there It's a very heartwarming story and I was really impressed at how well not just a story was told But the pacing and the characterizations Were all really just no fantastic. There are very few mustache twirling villains There's really only one that that is is there briefly But other than that even the characters that are acting Badly and and there are several uh You know they they are always They are always complex even if they're never forgiven by the story They are explained by the story and I think that that's that's really all you can ask for Do you have a favorite episode of your year? Let us know if you're a video user by email feedback at daily tech news show dot com If you're an audio user stick around there's more to come more glow