What is up everybody welcome back to the channel you guys in today's video I'm going to simply be answering a question from one of my top top subscribers on YouTube shout out to Barris I call him BK. Shout out to him for asking the question of a traffic at a Facebook traffic ad like why run a trade of Facebook traffic at how to run a Facebook traffic ad. What's the purpose of all these damn different ads that you can run within within the Facebook ads manager I'm going to kind of touch on that today you guys. So, if you're new to the channel my name is David I'm out here in San Diego. I dropped a lot of a lot of content over here on YouTube on Facebook advertising and really building my social media agency I've been doing that successfully since 2017 teaching online entrepreneurs teaching real estate agents how to run Facebook ads and market on social media. So if you're new to the channel if you see any value if you find any freaking knowledge out of this damn video today. Subscribe smash the bell for notifications and drop me a comment below. Shout out to Barris. Thank you for asking the question and really allowing me to put out this explanation and create some content around it. So if you guys are new stick around I got a lot more, a lot more on the way so let me kind of let me. Let me share my screen and show you what we're what we're what we're up against here you guys give me one second. So, bk shot to Barris. I appreciate you man he put fantastic bro I would like to see how you do traffic FBA ads. Okay, so let me kind of just explain this real quick you guys as well. I almost don't run traffic ads. rookies probably do, you know people that are that are just getting started, maybe, but I'm going to kind of kind of shed some light on on the differences and, and why, depend on your objective depend on your goal why that may not be the best objective for you. So here's, here's really the bottom line as you come to the ads manager right as you're in this back in back in part of Facebook.  But this is the updated version so this is this is kind of how it looks now, but depending on your objective right there's really in my professional opinion I've been running Facebook ads for clients for myself since 2017. Every day it's all it's all I do so I kind of broken down this to it to a science and, and I don't know at all I continue to freakin learn right but at the same time I, I damn near understand most of it. And here's really the bottom line, if you're running ads, you're really doing it for, for three main objectives, either you have an online store, and you're driving traffic to that store to make a cell. The objective is to make a cell, right, or you're in the client services business where you're actually servicing clients right not customers online purchasing e commerce.  So that's when you're dealing with clients and if you're running ads and you're in that space at all your objective I'm willing to I'm assuming and I'm willing to bet that your objective is to capture lead right. The third objective would be also someone that's in the client services business and that would be someone running ads to get an appointment. So those are really the three main objectives on why anybody would even run an ad, whether it's Facebook, Google, Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok, whatever. It's really those three, make a cell, get a lead, or get someone to schedule an appointment straight from an ad you get them to schedule an appointment. Those are the three main objectives okay. So when it comes down to over here. So you have these you have these six different objectives, awareness traffic engagement leads at promotion cells. Right. So, again, depending on what you're looking for if it's one of the three, then you're going for sure, you're going leads, and you're going conversions this is where this is where you'll see the actual conversion. If you come in here and click continue, it'll bring the into into into the actual setup. And if I go in here if you're in real estate you got to always go with housing right always go with housing. Now this is a new account so let me see if I even have a conversion event set up but in fact let me go back real quick if you're it's not just real estate but if you're in any of these other categories right. If you're offering credit cards, auto loans or anything financing yeah you got to go credit employment housing. If you're in politics and any any of that, you know stuff going on then you got to go social issues. So, depending on your niche. Yeah, for sure, choose this one. I'm using the real estate one as an example, you would go housing, and then you'd go next. Okay, so as you come to the second, the second. This is what I call the ad set level, the second level. This is where you can now go website, and then you would go conversion event this is where your custom conversion would go. Okay, now I have a video I'll link a video in the description that that that will show you and walk you through how to set up a custom conversion. You have to set up a custom conversion before you actually go this route. Okay, so again, in this case what I'm going here what I'm going here is I'd be going website, in order to make a cell capture lead, or get someone to schedule an appointment. It would be this okay it would be, it would be lead. It would be website, I would come down here and I would go conversion event. Okay, now depending on how you set up your pixel depending on how you set up your conversion event. So we'll go here lead, you know you can choose one of the default ones that that Facebook already has in place but what I like to do and how in the way I was, I was taught was to set up a custom conversion so again, watch the video in the description. That will show you how to set this up set the custom conversion up first and then you can come over here and run this type of an objective, but here when you see your when you set up your custom conversion you'll see your custom conversion here in the description and then you would choose that event and then and then go from there right follow the follow the prompts and just go go budget set your calendar if you're setting a calendar, the location the age the gender all that stuff right you would simply go through and set up the ad around lead and around conversion event. Okay, now that's for that's for that that's for sell lead or or schedule an appointment. Now, these other conversion events so as I come back over here, awareness. It's really what it is it's brand awareness, and what I'm going to show you next as I explain awareness traffic engagement at promotion cells. Obviously for if you're in e commerce, then you could you could definitely go cells as well. But around the cells, it's also custom conversion so if I go cells. And then I come over here. Let's go special ad category let's skip that part the drop down and we'll just come straight over here. Over here under cells, I would also go website. And I would go custom conversion I go conversion event and I would find my custom conversion. The custom conversion you guys is based on the thank you page. So in this case if I was running ads for to make cells for some type of online website. As I go to as I go as I click on your freaking, let's say you're selling iPhone cases right or cell phone cases or whatever, as I click on that ad. I go to your webpage let's say to Shopify website I go to your website I click on the product. I enter my credit card information I click purchase now. The next page that I land on thank you for your purchase your order is now being shipped that thank you page that link is the custom conversion that's the conversion event. So, in this case you can do it under cells and and and you're still running a conversion ad right a conversion around that thank you page. Telling Facebook that the most important page right here when you go conversion event and you choose your custom conversion. This is telling Facebook about the most important page of it all. Right, you would think that as you're scaling through the through the news feed and you're just coming across an ad here's a sponsored ad. You would think that the number one objective with this ad is to get people to click and come over here. It's actually not right this is not the number one objective the number one objective is to get them to click the button, enter the form. Watch, let me just fill this out just for the heck of it. The number one objective is to get someone to fill out the form and land on the second page. Now this could have been again my iPhone example, I could have clicked, put in my credit card information purchase now I then land on this second page. This second page is her custom conversion, right, it's the it's the it's the thank you page that link you would set up as a custom conversion. So again there's a link in the description that will show you how to set up a custom conversion. So, in this case cells, let's go back. We went in that case we went under we went under cells. Let's uncheck these real quick. And then let's click this green button again. So, in this case I went cells, but it's still based on that custom conversion leads based on that custom conversion. Okay. Now, the only reason why you would run any other ad awareness traffic shot to bear is that's what we're talking about here is this traffic campaign engagement at promotions. And the reason why you would run any of these other ones is to create a custom audience. That's it. So if I go traffic, according to what bears is asking right, run a traffic ad. If I go traffic, what you need for sure is a landing page, and you need to make sure that landing page has its proper Facebook pixel. Right. So, if I was running a traffic ad, the only objective, let's say for example I'm running a traffic ad to this page right here. Okay. This is a simple page that I run traffic to real estate agents you know to get them to download my book right. So if you're not a real estate agent. Don't even bother to download this is just a waste of time. You have to be a real estate agent to get any of this information or get any of this to make to make any of this knowledge makes sense in this right. So, don't just hack it for the hell of it. So, if I was running a traffic ad to this page right. Again, I'm not in the business of just running random ads I'm in the business of either making a cell capture a lead or get an appointment. Okay, so I would not be running traffic. I would not be running brand awareness I wouldn't be running any of that other stuff let's go back. Awareness traffic engagement app, app promotion. I wouldn't be running any of this because again my objective is one of the three right. And so if I was driving traffic to this page. My objective is to capture the lead right get them to fill out the form and land on the second page. My number one objective of spending money on a Facebook ad. That is it right. So, if I wasn't doing that right. The only reason why I would run traffic, or any of these other ones is to capture a custom audience. That's it. So when you go into traffic and you set that add up you're simply telling Facebook that you're looking for traffic. You're not looking for a lead you're not looking for a cell.  So what does that look like what does that mean that means Facebook will will will go out there and start to look for people who are likely to click. That's it. So this guy right here sponsored ad. There's the text. There's the video. There's the learn more button. If he was running a traffic ad. He's looking for people or Facebook's looking for him. Who are simply going to click. That's it. That's traffic right that's why I don't burn my money on that type of a campaign. Because I'm not looking for traffic I'm looking for a conversion right I'm looking for someone to click that red button and enter their information that is a conversion right that's a different ad that is not traffic. I was running traffic. The only reason why I would do it again is to set up a custom audience. So this guy right here. I can tell at the top I have this little Facebook pixel helper and if you guys don't have this little thing installed here at the top. All you got to do is go to Google and just do a Google search for Facebook pixel helper. What this is is a plugin that sits right here at the top. And when you're on a website that does not have a Facebook pixel. This thing is great. There's nothing there right. There's nothing there.  I have the Facebook pixel so I can test my stuff and make sure the pixel is working on my stuff and that's the only reason why I have it, but here I can clearly see that this guy has his pixel in fact he has two different pixels. So, if this guy was running a traffic ad. Here's what would be going on. His pixel is tracking the data, and then he would have this link at the top. He would have this link set up in Facebook as a custom audience. That's the only reason why you would ever run a traffic ad is to get thousands and thousands of people to the page. So you can then capture the audience and retarget them in the future with a conversion ad. Okay, with a lead ad.  And it's only to set up the custom audience, you'll need a bigger budget right the reason why these that these guys that have bigger budgets they do that is so they can warm up their audience. They don't have huge budgets and we need a damn cell right now.   I'm going for the lead even though I'm going for the cell even though I'm going for the appointment. Okay, I'm running leads. I'm getting people to the page. There's still going to be X amount of people that don't download it. Right there's still going to be X amount of people that don't opt in to watch your webinar. Right. So those people that are landing here and not proceeding by pressing the button. Okay, cool. I'm able to track it I got my pixel on that page. Right. I got my pixel right here at the top. I got a couple pixels, and then I have this link at the top, set up as a custom audience. So I'm still able to track the are still able to capture the data still able to capture the audience by running the proper ad which would be, which would be lead or cells. Okay.  They like to, they like to brand themselves a little bit more because they have the budget. Again, at the end, all they're doing is creating custom audiences to then retarget with leads or cells. So, in my opinion, Paris, I wouldn't be messing around with traffic unless you have a crazy budget cool run traffic, get a shitload of people to your landing page, capture the audience and then retarget them with with with lead ads in the future. Okay, so, so what you're doing though for sure you need landing pages. That's, that's for sure a traffic you're driving the traffic to a click right so in my case I use Cartra. There's a 14 day trial in the description. Cartra is my landing pages I use it for my landing pages I use it for my email automation and I use it for my online calendar. Okay, so as I capture leads online. It comes in it hits my landing page that lead comes in it hits my email automation, and then that lead comes in hits my calendar to schedule a call. Those three tools are all in one software. So there's a link in the description, set up a 14 day trial. I'll give you all my time for free and help you set it all up.  So hopefully that makes sense you guys hopefully that makes sense. There's really no reason to be running a traffic ad unless you really have a huge budget. If you do make sure you have a good a good landing page that you can that you can set up your pixels on it. The link is set up as a custom audience, and then, and then therefore you're able to retarget that audience in the future. Okay, so I hope that makes sense makes sense to you guys I hope that makes sense bears. The link is in the description. I'll also link in the description, a video that I did on how to set up a custom audience so you'll see two bit two special links in the in the description. One how to set up a custom conversion and then one how to set up a custom audience and then of course the third one, you'll see a link for 14 day trial to the software that I use to capture leads online and make money. So, shout to bears, shout to all you guys if you guys are new to the channel subscribe I put out Facebook at tutorials like this all the time every week Monday Wednesday Friday, 8am Pacific. So drop me a comment below let me know any way I can help you guys if you guys are new to online marketing if you're new to building your business on the internet, let me help you. I also provided a link in the description. FB ads cheat sheet calm. That's a simple PDF that explains these different custom audiences. It explains these different custom conversions and it helps you set them all up so that's a free download here in the description you guys so stay in touch. Let me know if this makes sense if you guys have any questions whatsoever. Hit me in the in the comments below, and I'll see you guys on the next video over now.


Hello, everyone. This is Carlos, CEO at Product School. Today, I'm here with Alon Greshev, the Chief Product Officer at GOM. Hey, Alon. Hello there. Thanks for inviting me. Thank you for being on the show. I'm a proud customer of your product, and I love to learn more about the products that we are using. Most of the people who join the podcast are also avid product people, so always welcome an opportunity to get a little deeper. Let's start from the very beginning.  Yeah, so I decided to start GOM. I did have a previous company, which we had sold back in 2013. And after leaving that company, I took Sabatical, which I recommend to everybody if you get a chance. It's a good time. And I was exploring many options. I was learning a few markets, learning a little bit, like deep dive into AI, machine learning, and hoping to start a new company. And at some stage, I met Amit, who's now my co-founder and CEO, and he came up with this idea of, let's streamline a lot of the things that are happening within revenue organizations. And I was in the Sabatical for a year, and I was already a little bit bored, so that was a good opportunity to kick it off. Definitely. I'm taking some time off my sound counter in Twitter, but it gives you a new perspective of things. And I wonder, like this being deeper into this idea, what is so unique about it? Because maybe we can start with what it's gone about and what is the differentiator? Because we know there's been technology out there in the market that's been covering some of those use cases before. Yeah, so the notion behind Gong is that if you look at customer-facing people, salespeople, revenue, or professionals in general, most of what they do is could communicate with customers. And when organizations need to understand what's going on, usually the information is stuck in people's heads. Head is not a good place to run analytics on top of or to kind of just understand what's going on. So people invented this idea of a CRM, Customer Relationship Management System, and they were hoping people are just gonna punch data into that CRM. And maybe when we started Gong, that was still like a perception that that could work, but over time people realized it cannot just take ahead and put it inside fields in the CRM. So the idea in Gong, let's replace this with a system that's gonna autonomously collect the video calls, calls, email, text messages and whatnot, all of the communication with customers, using AI machine learning. Hey, we started in 2015, so it wasn't as obvious then. You know, transcribe, understand topics, sentiment, all of these things, and then help both reps, managers, and sort of like CXC level, understand how to coach people right, how to make the right decisions, what to do next, and so on. So there's something very interesting, especially as these platforms grow, which is picking the ideal customer profile. I've seen other companies that focus on support teams. I've seen the clear focus on Gong for the revenue teams. So how do you navigate creating a product that can serve multiple functions within an organization? So our thesis, it was a dilemma. I mean, it still is a dilemma, right? Gong could go either way. I think the dilemma has been all along, you know, do you go horizontal or vertical? My big belief is both from a go-to-market perspective, anybody who's read like Crossing the Chasm, he always talks about, you know, he starts more in sort of a blow-up, but also I think from a product value perspective, just the fact that the main screen is called deals, not, I don't know what it is, like Zoom calls, the fact that you have like deal warnings, like you can build a lot of value. As you go more vertical and more specialized, you can create more value. That's true product-wise, but it's also true AI-wise, right? Because you can have like a generic summary or you can have a revenue-sensitive summary and that's two different things, because kind of if you know what a domain is, you can do much more, much smarter stuff. Then the other dilemma that I've seen in similar companies that require an integration partner, by like Gong in itself is better used when integrated with Salesforce or Zoom or a platform like that. So how do you think about integrating with different platforms while still making sure that you are not just too dependent on one specific platform? It's a great question. I think there is no, almost there's no company who's going to start as the key platform for anything. I mean, when you start, typically there are already, there's some solutions, maybe they're out of, outdated, but they still exist. So usually the idea is like you create a product that is interesting enough that coincides with other businesses and over time you expand and expand and expand and hopefully you're gonna, at one stage, become a platform. Today, like Gong, we started with conversation intelligence, understanding conversations. Now we have a forecasting product. We have a sales engagement product. We have a deal management product. So over time it becomes more and more the central location, but obviously you cannot start with a very wide platform because you can raise the big round A, but you're still not gonna be able to build on the functionality in a year. So it takes time. Yeah, maybe for people who are not fully aware of the scale of your business, can you give us some high level numbers where you guys are at? Yeah, so the company itself is roughly 1,200 people. We serve over 3,500 customers all the way from very small companies.com for the five salespeople or even two salespeople all the way up to Fortune 50 companies with thousands or even tens of thousands of employees. This was arguably one of those Silicon Valley darlings that was turbocharged during the pandemic. You achieved a unicorn, multi-unicorn status and it's really, really impressive, especially trying to penetrate in a category that is relatively crowded, like in terms of the basic functionality, but obviously being able to carve your mission and grow way beyond that. Like I'm looking at your homepage right now, you have so many different solutions. So I want to ask you about that type of motion. How do you get into one of those companies? Classic product that grow, like who are your early champions, who are the people who start getting value first and then how do you ensure that those champions are bringing in other team members into your technology? Yeah, it's a good question. So our go-to market motion is top down because one of the things we do is we collect tons of sensitive information. So we've decided not to try to sort of convince individual sellers to sort of start recording calls because I don't know, legal might want it or not want it. So we sell pretty much top down, chief revenue officer, VP sales, sometimes VP customer success, depending on who the go-to-market person is. And then once they like the idea, that's the usual implementation, typically an ops team. I mean, if the company's big, it's going to be an ops team implementing, rolling it out to maybe one team, two teams, and then growing quite fast. The thing is pretty easy to use, like a few hours if you're up and running. So usually it's pretty easy to expand it beyond one team to the whole organization, but obviously kind of change management while it takes, you know, for a big org, it takes a while, for a small org, it might be within hours. Yeah, and you know, in the day of product and growth where every company, including B2B SaaS companies are trying to find ways for end users to get some value first. How are you thinking about combining that motion with the more classic top down sales approach? Yeah, well, first of all, we'll get to it one day. The company's only seven years in business, so maybe we'll get to it one day. But I think more, what we're trying to do is kind of product-led growth in the sense of like product-led adoption or deep utilization.  But we've decided to sort of sidestep the need of like try to sell somebody based on a free trial or a 30-day, like a 30-day or limited edition trial. I'm sure we'll get to it as one day, but it does require pretty much like a whole motion around it. And we just have so much on our plate that we decided to focus on, you know, providing more value for every organization and building more products. And it hasn't been a priority so far. And you know what? I think it's a great answer here because first of all, not every company needs to be PLG from the get-go. Like there are definitely examples like on where you can still have extreme success by using other type of motions. In this case, more of a top-down approach. Then the second point you mentioned using product-led, maybe not for initial growth, but for adoption. Think product-led in itself is more than product-led growth and can be applied to different stages of the final. So what I'm hearing here is that even though you might not have like a free trial per se, you still find ways to create expansion and adoption once you are inside the company. Yeah, that's the attempt. But most companies, by the way, the companies we hear about, like the mirrors of the world, the air tables and the Twilio's, eventually they are salespeople because you cannot sell to big organizations without supporting them, providing customer success and whatnot. So I think it's the order of things. But yes, I mean, once you're gonna start at a certain stage to, you know, we've been able to grow this way. So we didn't have, we didn't need to pivot. And the other thing is we sell to salespeople. We don't hate them. A lot of the founders who want to do PLGs because they don't like salespeople and they can't like, they don't want to hire them. So they delay their decision. You know, for us, it was, it's natural. We love those people. I mean, you better love them. You definitely build technology for sales teams. One thing I also want to ask you is about AI. Obviously now everyone is talking about artificial intelligence, although it's not really that new. I started computer science and I had an artificial intelligence class 13 years ago. So what's your take on how AI can be implemented into your portfolio? Yeah, for us, it's pretty natural. I heard there was, yeah, I heard there was something with chat and GPT. Somebody told me they're gonna send me a link. They didn't send it yet. So I don't know whoever. But sort of the, I mean, yes, AI has been around, but I think it's made a huge leap. When we started, part of our bet was it's gonna be much better. Because like recording video conferences, I can do it in Zoom, right? The idea is, can you understand them? And when we started transcription technology was pretty bad, like 30% water rate. Now at the gong, we can do less than 10. And then same with natural language understanding. Can you identify what the conversation is about? Can you summarize it? Can you provide the winning topics, whatever? When we started, it was hard. Now we are actually able to do this. So AI is part of our DNA. Our product is a commercial revenue-centric application of AI. And I think over time, there is a big guidance layer that really is gonna help many, many professionals. And like you're gonna take away them and name tasks, automate them, take away the hard tasks and replace them with advice. But still put the real professionals in control. So not like replacing them, but like guiding them through. In the gong example, we highlight like deals at risk for them. So it's like, yes, you can go through 100 deals or you can go through the 10 that the machine says these are ones you should pay attention to. You're still gonna have to win them. We're not gonna replace the sales rep, but making their work much more efficient. And I think efficiency is the key for many of those AI applications. So are you saying that AI alone is not going to close this for you? Not yet, not yet. I'm still waiting for AI to drive my car, which people have been telling me it's gonna happen in five years. And that was like 15 years ago, so still waiting. I'm joking, obviously. And I think that's a good reminder for sales, people for product people to realize that this is an amazing opportunity to augment our impact. I don't see these technologies replacing us by any means. But the thing is, you guys have been using AI before AI was pulled, right? And I use the product. One of the moments for my sales team was to be able to identify insights from conversations without having to listen to the entire call. So what are other use cases that can help users get to those aha moments? So I think each time you replace something that is, the way I would look at it is sort of like, if something can be done 10X faster using AI, it's a aha moment. It becomes from quantitative to qualitative. An example you kind of brought up is a good one. Like, instead of listening to a 30 minute call, you can get your answer in a minute. Yes, it's 30X faster, but that makes it from not doable to doable. So I think all of those aha moments, in our example, I mentioned the risky dealers example, it's like you can sift for 100 dealers, it's gonna take you two hours, the system's telling you in 20 seconds. Now we are launching a sales engagement product and what it does for you, it tells you what, like even communication, like you got this email, you didn't respond in two days, here's a template for you to use to respond to. And again, that replaces thrifting your inbox, you take a 10 minutes, makes it 10 seconds. So the way I look at it, when AI can kind of do the 10X factor or create a summary for you, like same idea, you don't need to sort of read five emails, you just like take three bullets. So whenever AI can make it 10X faster, of course, even more is better, and then it becomes a big aha moment. I mean, I'm looking at your LinkedIn profile and I see that when you started the company, your title was Chief Technology Officer and now it's Chief Product Officer. Can you guide me through the rationale behind that and how is your life different now that you are overseeing product? Oh, the life is much simpler. My team right now is about 70 people and we hired a Chief R&D Officer here. He has like 250. So his life is much more complex. So my life is simpler. And when we started, I mean, eventually you start a company, right? My partner and CEO is kind of did sense in marketing, ID technology and product. I've done both of my career. So I kind of was able to sort of like pretend to do both. And then at some stage, we've just became big enough so that we decided that you need to split it. I think it requires oftentimes a different skill of like managing a relatively large number of people which is typically the engineering play. Then kind of interfacing more with customers and vision and product roadmap, which is the product play. So that's how we split it up. And I hear you mention R&D. Is that part of technology or is that a separate function? So for us, it's like two different functions. So I run the product team and then my colleague, Ohadis kind of runs the engineering organization. We both reported a CEO. So Pierce, yeah.  And I think it's a good reminder like this went from literally two people to or a thousand people and their skills, the changes that are required. It's just very different. I think find removing ego from the equation and try to find the role that creates the most impact, keeping in mind the best interest of the company versus just overseeing more people or having a cooler title. I think it's so underrated and so critical in order for companies to really grow at their maximum potential. 100% agree, yeah. So within your current product org, how are you guys structured? I've seen so many different flavors. I always love to learn more about your own org chart. Yeah, it's kind of funny because I typically, I speak with like my peers, like the industry of course, like every couple of weeks. And then I kind of, we obviously compare notes and it tends to be pretty similar. So I have an analytics team. I have UX team. I have Ops team, which is pretty standard and I have kind of the product groups. Right now, all of them report to me. So I don't have like a VP product management. So I'm also the acting VP product management. And then there is a go to market, product go to market team, which is kind of owns all of the, taking products to markets, kind of working in conjunction with the sales product marketing and customer success to actually make kind of product successful. So these are the kind of the main functions there's a couple of more, but these are the main ones. So for your products and see you have obviously a portfolio of different products. So do you have a PM or product leader overseeing each of the products or how are those products being integrated with each other? Exactly. So it's pretty much, you know, again, it's never a hundred percent. There's always exceptions, but in general, there's a group product manager for each one of the products. And there's one for the more data left platform one. And each one of them owns a product pretty much. And again, it doesn't have to be a skew because there's a little bit more skews than products, but just generally speaking a product. So now you have a portfolio which makes it even more interesting. This is obviously I can remind them would be different roadmaps per product, but ultimately you are overseeing the entire roadmap for the company. So what levers or frameworks do you use to make your own decisions in terms of what features of products to prioritize? Yeah. I think I one posted like a LinkedIn posted that my best decision decision tool is a coin. You flip it and it always gives you an answer very fast. And I think it is underrated in the same way that you said other things were underrated. I mean, truthfully, I think a lot of it is actually, I mean, at the product level, a lot of it is delegation. If you trust the people they're going to make the right decisions. So I don't tend to get involved with making decisions for those products. Obviously in the loop, but they're kind of not as involved. I think the strategy is kind of the more, like you spend some time on, you figure out where the market is heading, if relevant where competition is heading, of course where customers want you to head and sort of blend all of it together. And you kind of understand how does the portfolio look like? And then once you figure out you will invest in this area, then I tend to kind of have like, if possible, like have a strong leader kind of drive the more specific roadmap. And the size we're in, I can unfortunately, very unfortunate. I love it, but I cannot be in the detail of like the specific functionality of each product. I miss it, but I still can't. I miss it too. And I think this is something I struggled with, especially at the early stages, as I realized, I'm not the only PM in the room anymore and I'm supposed to be doing other things. So for you also, especially as you have many, many PMs how do you allow yourself to obviously have an influence when you believe that it's important versus empowering product leaders so they can also call their own shots? Yeah, so I think first of all, the decision criteria is the customer. And I think that's like obviously a cliche, but it is true. So if you're not sure, just go to talk to a few customers and get their opinion. In our case, we also use gong. So we have all of the sales conversation there. So you can always like pick after the fact you don't even have to necessarily every single conversation to yourself. So if the idea is like empowerment comes first, the PM, not even a group PM is gonna make most of the decisions. The group product manager is gonna fine tune them. And then sometimes there is like very blurry and maybe areas with a lot of ambiguity. And that's where I typically step in a little bit more, try to help create clarity. Hopefully I'm not doing it the other way sometimes, maybe that too. And we're not sure that there's a debate like the PM is gonna think this, I might strongly think otherwise, they're probably gonna know better than me, but we're gonna talk to a few customers and figure out like where is the misunderstanding. Usually if you speak enough with customers, the solution becomes pretty clear. One thing that I learned as we grew our business and the whole product management industry grew is that now there's a career ladder. It wasn't that clear back in the day. Like a lot of people want to become a product manager. And that's it. And now we're seeing an evolution from PM all the way up to Chief Product Officer. The Chief Product Officer is at the table at the C-suite. In many cases we're seeing companies whose former CEO is now the CEO, which I think it's great. So in your case, what would you say are the things that you do as a C-P-O that maybe a group product manager doesn't do? I think there's a couple of things. First of all, it's kind of managing people at scale is its own like trade or needs. So just like my team is over 70. Just like making sure that the team is kind of collaborating and works kind of together and stuff. This is something I do as an executive, not just as Chief Product Officer. In terms of Chief Product Officer, it's a lot about kind of working with, as you said, the kind of seat at the table. It's sort of working with the executive team to understand like, what are the key things that are holding us as a company, not just as a product. So for example, in this economy, some of our customers who might be technology companies are not doing as well as they did the year ago. So what do we need to do at the product level to kind of help them out? Is there something we need to do? So just as an example, when the economy started going south, we created a feature in the product that helped them understand their own customer sentiment around the economic kind of risk and we created this pulse thing that gives you indication. So it's more like at a strategic level be able to align both inbound and outbound product with the rest of the org and then orchestrate the whole org around the same goals, just be able to collaboratively define them and orchestrate everybody around them. So otherwise it's just, that's pretty much it. It feels the day though, unfortunately. That's for sure. Well, let's talk about recruiting for a second. There's so many philosophies about that. I've seen great PMs come from different backgrounds. So I want to know more about how you go about recruiting product leaders. Yeah, so we have a good mix. We have, I think probably four or five who have been CEOs in the past. We probably have four or five who have been engineers. We have people who have kind of background more like industrial engineering and other things. I don't think there's a recipe around background. We have gone to hire senior people and experienced people. It's very, very hard for us to sort of like grow at a pace we operate to kind of grow inexperienced people. We do it, but very, very, not a lot. What I found was more telling than others even like more than a resume or not. We, I'm a big believer in just giving people like a real life assignment. It's like, hey, take a look at this issue. Just tell me, kind of present to me like you would if you were an employee of the company.  So it's like make any assumption you want to just like tell me how you'd think about it. And of course the specific questions are going to depend on the role. And what I found is that like a simulating a real situation or product decision or debate that we have in the company gives a lot of indication around how that person operate in real life. And of course there's many other things around, you know people management, reference checks and other things. But that to me is the, oftentimes the deciding criteria. Then when you are trying to, to hire maybe more entry level folks, what type of internal mobility opportunities do you have or how do you think about testing people who might not have the product experience or background but do you still believe that they have the potential to become great? So in the product organization like kind of the ops team there's entry level things like, you know even things like, you know coordinate customer interviews. So that's maybe entry level. And then there's like aggregate and arrange customer research because more product research kind of role. So there are kind of various roles and then you can transition to sort of an entry level product management role. Typically it might not even be like a customer facing application might be an internal application or a part of the application. And the idea is that with the right mentorship over time you can grow and become more senior. But I don't think there's like a panacea or magic bullet you just have to go through the motion enough with enough strong people around you and see how it's being done.  This doesn't happen, right? So you have to sort of coach people quite a lot. Totally. It doesn't happen. And I believe it's also not necessary. I think with the right experience in other areas and the right drive and the right opportunity in an environment that fosters your growth you can definitely acquire the specific skills faster. And that's been our thesis since the beginning. Now I want to talk to you about the future. Obviously Gongru quickly and I'm looking at the different solutions you have for product teams for sales teams or marketing teams. What's next for you? What is that grand vision for Gong? So there's two grand visions. One is for revenue teams become the one stop shop where they're going to do everything using Gong. And it is the big reason why I do do this is because the system understands what's happening and can give you advice based on real life versus on some database or CRM fields or whatnot. So that's maybe the two, three year vision and then automate a lot of the stuff, right? So whatever can be automated. I think beyond that is kind of thinking how you can apply this to different industries. So we are running like a pilot right now with recruiting turns out there's lots of similarities in selling and recruiting. And the idea is there are many other applications that can be automated or streamlined using the fact that a lot of the best practices and knowledge comes from the conversations. And then you can kind of rethink how things are being done versus punching data into a computer having autonomous applications that understand and kind of guide you through the next steps. Yeah, I mean, are you saying that conversations are not just between salespeople and customers or recruiters and candidates? That might happen one day as well. I think, obviously I think most of us would still prefer to talk to a person but maybe the next generation might feel otherwise, who knows? Maybe we can have two chat bots talking to each other one day. Yeah, sometimes when we talk with customers there's two bots on the call and I'm waiting for them to start negotiating. Well, Adrian, it's been awesome to talk with you. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you for inviting me. Have a great day.


This session would be a very quick rundown of 20 minutes about one of the software development methodology that we follow at our organization and along with a particular case study, how it was executed to one of the project. So, but before that, getting on to the case study or the business problem, the project, I just want to give you a brief introduction of why we have gone for this kind of methodology and what is the need of it.  Just let's have a look at it. So, when we look at the industry actually, like, you know, we have very defined processes. We have many things. Many good things are there in the industry, but still, why do we need to have something else? Like, we have defined processes, different practices, C-M-M-I-I-S-O, we have lean startup, we have agile philosophy and the different methodologies. But still, like, we do have the stringent development and the management review practices, et cetera, but still, when you look at the reality, these are all we have it, but when you look at the reality, we still have the failures. We still have most of our projects are challenged, some of the other are, like, you know, they're failed. We don't get the outcome what is expected. We might get the output, compliance or projects are compliance to the requirement. We build exactly what it is asked for, but still, we don't get the expected outcomes as the projects were intended for. Many times, we get the poor user experience, like, you know, the user experience, whatever we are expecting or the supposed to get, like, you know, we don't get that user experience, customers are not happy, and so on and so forth. So then, just to get rid of, to some of this, or at least to minimize this, as we all understood that, understand that, like, you know, we cannot get rid of the, like, you know, all the negative things, right, with the one methodology or one approach or anything, but at least if we can improve a little bit towards that. So we started a little bit, doing a little bit analysis, so how to improve the experience. Experience from the perspective of the end user who is going to use my product or the services or the, like, a project we are building, or the experience of my employee, like, you know, whoever is building that particular product. So what can be done to improve that particular experience or beat end user or your own employee? And we started, like, you know, just going through the different industry research or the trend, the way the industry is progressing and, like, you know, the major trend in the market and so on and so forth. So finally, we picked up a couple of best practices or rather, like, you know, which is there in the industry for a decade long, right? But we have not adopted them very, like, you know, as a mainstream process or the practices. So one of the practice, what we picked up is the design thinking. So as, how many of you have worked on the design thinking or applied design thinking in your project? Any of you? Okay, so design thinking is one of the practice or rather, it's not one practice, it's a, like, you know, a combination of multiple practices or the, like, you know, way of doing things. It's a kind of philosophy. Where in the most focus, the focus of the design thing, when you say you are applying design thinking principles, the most focus is given to the end user. Before you build something, you see it from the end user perspective. Who is going to, it's not my customer, my, like, you know, the exact customer who has asked for building this services or the product. There might be some end user who's going to use that product. So just, we need to start thinking from the end user perspective before even we start, like, you know, gathering the requirement or building the requirement. In our traditional approach, what do we do? We take an inside out approach. We take the system. Okay, this is the system I'm going to build and these are the functionality. We build the system based on the functionality whatever we perceive that my user is going to use it and they are looking for it and they are waiting for this, like, you know, requirement or the features to be built. So we take a systemic view, basically look into, look from the requirement perspective, build it, then ship it to the product or the end user. Then that's where the experience comes in. The end user might like that experience or may not like that experience. So what design thinking actually suggests or the design thinking principle suggests, you take the outside in approach. So you first start from the end user perspective. What is your user segment for whom you are building the product and take it, what's their behavior? What's their, like, you know, the beliefs, what's their likes, dislikes. And of course to the business context, whatever we are talking about and then build the product, build the requirement on top of that from that and then start getting on to the, creating the system and give the product. So if you see it from the end user perspective, their likes and dislikes consider that factored in into your design and then there's a probability that product would be accepted by the end user and the experience it will create is a real good experience. So this is one of the principle that we thought of. So as you can see that's inside, like a couple of things I have mentioned over here, these are ingredient of the design thinking. Like understanding the user's behavior analysis, building personas, understanding the user's experience. So this is also, like, you know, lean startups suggest before you build that, you see how the users will traverse into the system, how, what all will be the different touch points of user into the system once they build the system. So if you do that, like, you know, you'll find that if there is any missing gap, if there is any things which is not giving the expected behavior of the system is giving. So we can find that and a couple of other things. In addition to design thinking, of course we are, like, you know, building that on top of our agile methodologies. So basically our, the base framework, we are taking, it's a scrum framework. On top of the scrum framework, we are building that.  So now what, so far in the industry, what we have been seeing is the projects are there. Once the requirement comes, we start building all the requirements, all the blocks, all the things, whatever is required and deliver the product. What if, but if I see from the manufacturing industry, like, you know, the way, how the car or any other manufacturing stuff's getting assembled, the components or the parts are built, like, as a separate and they're kept and when you need the, need to assemble it, get the component, assemble it, do the tuning, whatever is required, assemble it and then deliver the product. So, like, you know, we still, like, you know, trying to establish a similar kind of approach on a vertical voice, like, you know, different segments, like, say, banking and the healthcare, these are the two segments we are looking into right now, is building blocks based on the behavior analysis. So the segment of user, let's say, if we talk about the healthcare, in the healthcare, these are the general behavior of the end user and these are the components or these are the things or the systemic components or the technical components or the functional components, we might need it, like, from this segment of the user perspective. So we have a group of, like, you know, a group who is looking into this one to build the component and in our project, when we get the project, we start building the project, we try to see what all the components we can reuse, we can plug and play or if not 100% directly plug and play, we can do a little bit of engineering to that and then assemble it and build the solution.  We are not yet, like, you know, I would not say even 50% reach to the level where we want to, but we have started the approach and, like, you know, we delivered a couple of projects using the same. Along with that, we have the concept of unified resource. So though, it's the same as the cross-functional skills to what, like, you know, typical agile suggests. So what we say is, if the, in the development cycle, I have many stages, right? So we have the development, requirement development, you do the testings and you have the UI at front. So, of course, even if you do it in a scrum manner, but there are different skill resource they do, they does the thing.  Like, say, when am I UX, UX or the UI developer, hand over the things to the next level that the development. So they understand, the development folks understand little bit of UI or the UX part of it. So if that happens, the handshaking happens much faster. Handshaking between the one resource or the one type of skill to another type of skill happens little bit smoother way. And eliminate couple of ways what we generally face. So taking this few, like, you know, concepts or the principles, we just, like, you know, assembled our, this is not a new, but the assembled or the, like a customized approach. We say it's user-centric accelerated software development methodology, wherein the main focus is the user and centered around the users who built the whole thing. So the first step is to discover and then design and then deliver, that's how we do it. And it's an outside in approach, as I was saying, like, you know, we always take it from the end user perspective and then getting on to the system. So now let's look at the, like, you know, the business case, whatever we are, like, you know, this is one of the projects wherever we have implemented it. This is, our customer is one of the medical device manufacturing company in the US, it's a leading company and the problem statement was that basically into orthopedics, like, you know, device manufacturer, manufacturer. So we had to build a any device application, be it in the web or the mobile application. So to support the different functionality, like, say, awareness and the coping, coping up with the diseases or the pre-surgery, post-surgery and then, like, you know, normal recovery process on all the steps on that one. And the typical, like, end user of this particular product was the patient, by themselves, caretaker, caregiver, and the practitioner doctors and the service providers, hospitals, so those are the typical, like, typical end user of that particular system which we built. And the approach we have taken is, so as, like, you know, the, based on the whole approach is basically outside in and then we started with the behavior of the end user behavior and then get on to the business perspective. Like, you know, in this particular business case, business, like, you know, business of building the application for the any device, how it is overlapping with the end user's expectation and then what expectation of end user it is satisfying and then what all the touch points would be. We'll see that. What all the touch point would be and then devising the use cases, actually use cases, that needs to be built. Many times what happened, if we do this approach, it reduces the unnecessary lack of the features which we initially think a system might need or our system might need it. Yeah, so this is the complete view of, I'm sorry if the texts are not visible because the colors that I have used is not very correct. So this is the whole approach of the complete development cycle. We start with the envisioning and then we get on to the engineering, then assembling and then the deployment. But whole thing goes in iterative way.  We don't do that. So each of them, like, you know, the envisioning goes in two weeks of iterations. Typically that's what, like, you know, the approach we follow. And post that, we take it to the engineering and the assembling, which is again, combining two weeks of iterations and then get into the next level. So now when you start with the envisioning with, like, you know, design thinking in mind or the design thinking approach, so these are the typical, like, you know, the activity that we actually did it for this particular, we recommend and did it for this particular project is to understand the behavior of the end user with this business context and then identifying their behavior and then that, like, you know, the user's journey into the system. Once we will build the system, why my user has to come to the system and if they come, what and how they will achieve the objective, what they want. So that's the, like, you know, the user's journey into the system and that exactly map to the, like, you know, the, what are the functionality we are going to build and helped us creating the use cases or the user stories. So just have a look at, sorry, just have a look at some of the screenshots, whatever we had one second. So, okay, so for the behavioral analysis, for the, while doing the behavior analysis of this particular project, we don't recommend any specific tools or, like, you know, technique or model to be used for the behavior analysis, it's up to the project, whatever you want to use it. So the, for this particular project, we use the fog behavior and model and hook model. So fog model is a three-parameter-based thing, like, you know, the model which helps us to understand what's the, like, you know, the user's characteristics in terms of three-parameter, like, say, to the name, which, what motivates them to come to my system, what will, whether they have the ability to work on my system and they are willing to work on my system or come to my application.  So taking these two, like, you know, models, we actually did that, this is, like, you know, we, it is not expected you to read this one, that this is the text, which data we actually, like, wrote it down after doing the behavior analysis for this particular thing. So what all, using this fog and hook model, so what are those triggers, what are those motivations and, like, you know, their abilities and how we translate to the functionality. And from that, that leads to the, like, you know, for each user segment, we had to do the, like, you know, the behavior and the what are the different paths or the different, like, you know, this path actually leads to the epic of the requirement and each path would lead to the epic and that will be broken down into the user stories. Thus, similarly, like, you know, this is a typical path, the detailed descriptions of one path for this project, that is for path for the one set of segment of user, that is the young people who has the low need of health assistance, but they have the ability to, like, you know, spend money onto that thing. So if that is my end user, like, you know, for that end user, how, like, you know, what all the action or what all the behavior or the features I need to include into the system. So this blue tick mark shows that these are the actions I need to incorporate or, like, you know, provide the facility into the system.  And these are some of the, some of the typical use cases, whatever we have, like, you know, got out of that, the few screen shots of the typical, like, you know, use cases. So, you know, going back, like, you know, once we got the use cases, then we went to the engineering block where we started analyzing what all the existing component, as I was saying, that we have an inventory of verticalized component, and then to check what all the things we can reuse it or basically plug and play over here.   So the initial, it's little costly, so we need to invest time to build that and then, like, you know, take it forward from there. And once we do that, and of course, every project has a little bit of differences, so we cannot get all the component directly plug and play. So what we need to do, we need to do a little bit of engineering to change it and then incorporate. And then do the assembling and, like, you know, do the deployment UAT and the deployment part of it. Yeah, so this is the whole approach. And now from the benefit perspective, if you, like, you know, this is what we have, I've noted it down over here. So from the envisioning phase for this particular project, we've got around 500 plus user stories, the granular final, like, you know, the user stories that was taken to the development for the building. And at the end of the whole, like, you know, the deployment, we've deployed the web application as well as the mobile applications with respect to, these are the key features, or the, like, you know, the functionality that we incorporated and delivered to the client. And still the project is going on, some of the other, like, you know, threads or the dimensions. And the team size of this particular project was like this. We had the analyst, we had an architect, and the, of course, the SME and one engineer and then one UX engineer during the, in the envisioning perspective. And whereas in the development side, I had only two development engineers and the two quality engineers. So because if you see the development engineer, like, a little less considering the, like, you know, the timeframe of the project and the scope of the project, because our whole objective is to spend money on to creating the inventory and the, so that my development cycle goes down. And so that we don't, that is the whole objective. We don't, do not want to spend much time in the development, but it's just an engineering of those blocks and then assembling them. So the whole idea is if we can do that, my, the project cycle, development cycle goes down, whereas we invest time on envisioning phase, whereas, like, you know, this will lead to a product or the services that will be well accepted by your end user. So, and like, you know, the duration perspective was the envisioning was the six week and the whole development was the 12 week. It was a kind of little bit of parallel overlapping stuff and the profit benefit perspective if when we compare this with our historical data, we got to see around like, you know, 25 to 27% of the schedule reduction at this phase or this particular project we had. Yeah, yes. So the whole envisioning for this set of functionality took the six week, but we have not done it like, you know, after six week, we started the development. That was the parallel, like the activity. After first two weeks of envisioning, when we got the few features which was created, user stories created and the prototype was created and the review with the client and it was agreed. So we took it for the engineering part and then we'll go went for the next set of like, you know, the requirement envisioning. So the total time was around 16 weeks time.  It was something like our envisioning was going on like this and then we like, you know, our engineering and assembly and then deploy. And there is options like since the base framework is the agile, like, you know, we can deploy it at any point in time whenever the customer is ready and then like, you know, set of features which is like, which is a significant amount which can go to market based on the customer thing. So, but in this particular project case, we did it at the end because it would be much less because from this engineering, like I said, like in this particular project case, we could not even use 50% of the component of the functional block as is because we're still maturing that our inventory level. So from each of this project as we execute, we also, it goes to our inventory saying that, okay, this is the new block or that we got it. And there is an additional effort that is in parallel going on to mature the inventory. So if you get the next project of the similar line, so probably it will get down further, further maybe a few weeks and so. Yeah? Yeah?  So here in this particular case, like, you know, we had good support from the customer to provide the information. They also did a survey of the, like, you know, before, like, you know, just coming up with the whole product approach of their end user. And also we had a couple of SME in that area. So that helped us. But there is another project which is currently going on where, like, you know, we had a dependency. It is for one of the South African customer. And we had a language dependency.  And then, like, the end user also. So we have a, like, you know, intermediary team, so which we are tied up with. So they are helping us in gathering the, like, you know, the envisioning part of it or the user's behavior part of it. The current one? Current one, this is the first time. Yeah. Are scope creeps and scope changes? Yeah, scope creep, like, you know, if we, our expectation is, like, you know, when we do the, like, you know, this approach, outside-in approach or the design thinking approach, many times the scope changes or the CRs does not arise much. But of course, if it comes, then we need to handle it the way, like, you know, agile suggests.  So the probability or the expectation is once we mature onto this model, like, you know, we do the thorough of the user's behavior and analysis and the touchpoints and their experience mapping. So that would lead to less number of changes that we encounter down the line in the project. Any other questions? I'm pretty much done, actually. Okay, this is the last slide, as we already talked about, like, the benefit perspective, what we can expect out of this is the, that's the best benefit is the better user experience. So we try to give the better user experience to the end user and the cycle time comes down. And that's the third point, like, third and second point, which talks about the subjective quality. Many a times when you talk about the quality of the product, most of the time, you focus on the objective quality. So number of defects, defects, density, and so on and so forth. We never talk about the subjective quality of the product. So which is nothing but, again, the end user experience or the outcome, whether it meets the expectation. So it focuses more on subjective quality and gives you the better subjective quality as well as the outcome meeting the expectation or, like, you know, the project expectation. And, of course, the shorter time to market. So that's the best thing. Okay, I have not focused on the objective quality part of it. The subjective quality, as we talked about, if you understand the subjective quality, is nothing but whether it is solving the purpose for which you are building this particular software or the product. Is it well accepted by the customer? Whether my end user is able to use it and solve his business needs or the ones? Is it solving the main pain areas for which we are building this particular product? So that's called the subjective quality. And through our envisioning cycle, the way we are applying the design thinking and trying to envision the product and get the requirement or the use cases, so that's to take care of your subjective quality of the product. And with respect to the objective quality, of course, we have our standard. This is on top of your standard, the way we do scrum, along with the scrum. It's built on top of the scrum. So our regular activity of my unit testing, your like, you know, the, what are the, SIT, IT and all these things, all the testing happens as usual. It is a framework, it is customized methodology which is sitting along with the scrum. It's like, you know, just to incorporate few more practices along with the scrum to give the, some of the edge, some of the advantage which we are lacking right now. Yeah. All right, so I think I'm over shooting by five minutes. So like, yeah, thank you everyone for listening to me for the last 20 minutes. Thanks. Bye.


Live from Washington D.C., it's theCUBE, covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2018, brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its ecosystem partners. Hey, welcome back everyone. It's theCUBE's exclusive coverage here, day two of the Amazon Web Services Public Sector Summit. This is the public sector across the globe. This is their reinvent. This is their big event. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, and also Dave Vellante has been here doing interviews. Our next guest is, we've got Doug Van Dyke. He's the director of U.S. Federal, civilian and nonprofit sectors of the group. Welcome to theCUBE, good to see you. John, thank you for having me. So you've been in the federal kind of game and public sector for a while. You've known, worked with Teresa at Microsoft before she came to reinvent. 15 years now. How's she doing? Oh, she's doing great. You saw her on main stage yesterday. Force of nature, love working with her, love working for her. This is like you were saying, this is our reinvent. We're here in DC and 14,000 plus, 15,000 registrations, just, she's on the top of her game. What I'm really impressed with her and your team as well is the focus on growth, but innovation, right?  Certainly you're competing against people who are playing all kinds of tricks. You know, you've got Oracle out there. You've got IBM, you've beaten the CIA. You've got, you've got Street Battle, K out there and this there in DC. You guys are innovating there. You're doing stuff with nonprofits. You've got mission-driven. You're doing the educate stuff. So it's not just a one-trick pony here. Take us through some of where you guys' heads are at now because you're successful. Everyone's watching you. You're not small anymore. What's the story? So I think that the differentiator for us is our focus on the customers. You know, we've got a great innovation story at the Department of Veterans Affairs with vets.gov. So five years ago, if a veteran went out to get the services that the government was going to provide them, they had to pick from 200 websites and it just wasn't easy to navigate through 200 websites. So the innovation group at Veterans Affairs, the digital services team figured out, you know, let's pull this all together under a single portal with vets.gov. It's running on AWS and now veterans have a single interface into all the services that they want. Yeah, Doug, one of the things I've been impressed my first year coming to this, I've been to many other AWS shows, but you've got all these kind of overlapping communities. Of course, the federal governments, but state and local education, you've got this a civilian agency. So give us a little bit of flavor about that experience here at the show, what trends you're hearing from those customers. Yeah, so what's great for me is I've been here almost six and a half years and I've seen the evolution and there were the early customers who were just the pioneers like Tom Soderstrom from JPL who was on main stage. And then we saw the next wave where there were programs that needed a course correction like at Center for Medicare Medicaid with healthcare.gov where Amazon Web Services came in, took over that, you know, helped them with the marketplace, you know, get that going. And now we're doing some great innovative things at CMS aggregating data from all 50 states about 75 terabytes so they can do research on fraud, waste and abuse that they couldn't do before. So we're helping our customers innovate on the cloud and in the cloud and it's been a great opportunity. Oh my God. I had the pleasure of interviewing Tom Soderstrom two years ago.  So there's an exciting one with Department of Energy. They, you know, there's a limited amount of resources that you have on premise. Well, they're doing research on the Large Hadron Collider in certain Switzerland and they needed to double the amount of capacity that they had on premise. So went to the AWS cloud, fired up 50,000 cores, brought the data down and they could do research on it. So we're making things possible that couldn't be done previously. What are some of the examples that government entities and organizations are doing to create innovation in the private sector? Because the private sector has been the leader to the public sector and now you're seeing people starting to integrate it. I mean, half the people behind us that are exhibiting here are from the commercial side doing business in public sector and public sectors doing enabling action in the private sector. Talk about that dynamic because it's not just public sector. Right. Can you just share? Public, private. So great example with NOAA, the National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration. They have a new program called Next Rad. It's the next generation of Doppler radar. They have 160 stations across the world collecting moisture, air pressure, all of the indicators that help predict weather. They partner with us at AWS to put this data out and through our open data program and then organizations like the Weatherbug can grab that information, government information and use it to build the application that you have on your iPhone that predicts the weather so you know whether to bring an umbrella to work tomorrow. So you guys are enabling the data from, or stuff from the public for private entrepreneurial activity? Absolutely. All right, talk about the nonprofits. What's going on there? Obviously, we saw some stuff on stage with Theresa, the work she's showcasing a lot of the nonprofit. A lot of mission-driven entrepreneurship's happening. Here in DC, it's almost a Silicon Valley-like dynamic where stuff that was never funded before is getting funded because they can do cloud, they can stand it up pretty quickly and get it going. So you're seeing kind of a resurgence of mission-driven entrepreneurship.  How do you talk about that? Sure, well again, one of the areas that I'm really passionate about being here and being one of the people who helped start our nonprofit vertical inside of AWS, we now have over 12, or I'm sorry, 22,000 nonprofits using AWS to keep going. And the mission of our nonprofit vertical is just to make sure that no nonprofit would ever fail for lack of infrastructure. So we partnered with TechSoup, which is an organization that helps vet and coordinate our cloud credits. So small nonprofit organizations can go out through TechSoup, get access to credits, so they don't have to worry about their infrastructure. Free credits? Those credits, with the TechSoup membership, they get those, and using the word credit, it's more like a grant of AWS cloud. You guys are enabling almost grants. Yes, cloud grants, not cash grants, but cloud grants. Yeah, yeah, yeah, great. So how is that converting for you in your mind? Can you share some examples of some nonprofits that are successful? Sure, we had a great presentation and I think it was your last interview, Game Changer, where these smaller nonprofits can have a really large impact. But then we're also working with some of the larger nonprofits too, the American Heart Association, that built their Precision Medicine Platform to match genotype, phenotype information so we can further cardiovascular research. They have this great mission statement. They want to reduce cardiovascular disease by 20% by 2020, and we're going to help them do that. You guys are doing a great job, I've got to say, it's been fun to watch, and now we've been covering you guys for the past two years now, here at the event, a lot more coming on in DC. The CIA went a few years ago, certainly the shot heard around the cloud. That's been well documented, the Department of Defense looking good off the certain indicators. But what's going on in the trends in the civilian agencies? Can you take a minute to give an update on that? Yeah, so I started earlier saying I've seen the full spectrum. I saw the very beginning, and then I've seen all the way to the end where I think it was three years ago at this event, I talked to Joe Paiva, who was the former CIO for Department of Commerce, ITA, the International Trade Association. He had data center contracts coming up for renewal, and he made a really brave decision to cancel those contracts. And so he had 18 months to migrate the entire infrastructure for ITA over onto AWS. And there's nothing like an impending date to move. So, we've got agencies that are going all in on AWS, and I think that's just a sign of the times.  I think most startups don't. Born in the cloud. Born in the cloud, that's that. Thanks so much for coming on, appreciate the time. Congratulations on your success, AWS, public sector doing great, global public sector. You guys are doing great. Building nations as well, we had Baja Rain on as well. Good luck, and the ecosystems looks good. You guys did a good job, so congratulations. John Stu, thank you very much for having me here today. All right, live coverage here. We are in Washington, D.C. for CUBE coverage of AWS Public Sector Summit. We'll be back with more. Stay with us. We've got some more interviews after this short break.


Ya jasin time for the next discussion of the day is all about matters concerning your career and in this particular discussion that we are about to have we want to give it a different twist this morning because it is very important that even as talk about career and of course later on we shall be dealing with how you can be able to build your career before you go to that interview but before we do that how can you establish something that you want to do in future when you're still at a young age is it possible for a young person to know the kind of profession they would like to be in or when they grow up is it possible today let's talk about building young talent and to help us in this discussion I want to give you a very glimpse this is a young lady very young so young that she's in primary and has already has a youtube channel ladies and gentlemen next to me I'm introducing Natasha Braca she is a content creator okay how are you feeling i'm feeling good you feeling good ya welcome to the station okay and of course uh to my far uh right i am with uh Mualimu Wilfred Nyongesa he is the deputy principal from Lakewood Emerald School kanu misana mr nyongesa how you feeling today i'm good i'm good and i'm i've got this chance to be on why and the question the question is why yes the question is why why thank you so much for for coming my brother and of course i will invite you all uh from wherever you're watching us from be part of this discussion if i really have comments and questions feel free to do so if at all you have uh you know um any opinion or thoughts in regards to this matters that we shall be discussing the hashtag as always is why in the morning tag me at ramaguka the official station handle is at y254 channel remember we are coming to you live from the broadcasting house here in aerobic Kenya we are also streaming live through our website and that's at www.kabc.co.ke4 slash y254 how can you build young talent of course let me start with you uh uh Natasha first of all tell me something about yourself ukoshi ulegani how old are you and this youtube channel in yanafana okay as you all know now my name is natasha brokka and i'm in leku emerald school i'm 10 years old and i'm in class four primary class four when grade four grade four yeah yes it is now grade four it's now grade four yes but you're in class four yes the previous eight four eight four four yes when you are in class four what are you doing some of us are looking for a name changa na watopi ukona waksiza briki jona kalungu this lady is having a youtube channel my goodness generations are changing Mr. Nyongisa what do you think when you see talent like this the first time you you you met natasha brokka yes uh the first time when we met with natasha brokka she was transferring from our sister school that is from komarok now she was coming switching to boarding section and again we had an interaction with the mother it was a good interaction and the mother revealed to us that she had already an existing youtube channel and we said wow that's an opportunity for us because back at where we are sited in liquid emerald we have already an established media uh that we learn a number of things we have a social media on facebook we have a youtube of our own and a tv and said we are going to tap this talent and natasha it to where it's supposed to be to benefit the society at the same time benefit the content creator and and i love what you're doing because even at why two five four we promote young talent yes why two five four the number one youth station and of course even as talk about youth station yes you deal with youth in that place yes how can people follow you in that particular platform that you are in and something a bit more about emerald school uh as i said uh we have a youtube channel that one you get us on emerald tv though it's not a an established tv that you get it but on youtube we are there on facebook we are there as liquid group of schools therefore if you need to interact with us you can easily interact with us on those platforms we have our demonstrators that are there and again our doors are open wide open anytime you feel like you want to get to our place you get there as i said we also have schools in different counties that is 047 that is Nairobi where we are that is no kumarok area in the 016 that is machakos utawala area and then 034 that is in kajado kitengela so whenever you want to interact with us our schools run all through as well as it's a week day so you have you have a school in kumarok yes machakos utawala we say kumarok machakos that is utawala and the kitengela in kajado kitengela yes all right all right thank you so much for what you're doing uh Natracha how does it feel now that you're seeing yourself already having youtube channel it feels good yeah feels good do you feel like um there is uh that person that you're trying to be like or do you have this image yeah this image that you're looking up to those people that motivate you to say you know what i want to start the youtube channel who are these people um actually i want to become a journalist i i met the youtube channel because i wanted to start my own career of journalism journalism yeah my goodness and and you have people who are looking up to uh in journalism yeah okay who um i look up to ram oh uh and i look up to victoria rubadiri victoria rubadiri yes wow okay i'm humbled wow so these are the people that you look up to in journalism yes and and and you want to be like them yes um what are just some of those things that uh when you see inspire you and make you feel like you know i want to do this and this and this that's some of those qualities yeah do you have them yeah come again like what's trending okay okay i love what's trending you love what's trending yes you love talking about um things that like gossip yes okay do you know what's trending currently size right now yeah actually queen elizabeth died and today is her burial wow my goodness so queen elizabeth died and today is her burial the president uh ruto went to to visit went to nini attend that occasion yes pretend you are uh a tv presenter sendio and you want to talk about the latest trend something that is trending uta uta uta onga vp resimaji pretend now this is you nrasha braka live i'll be like today we are going to be on what's trending i love sports i'll start with what's trending if it's music if it's art yeah you start with what's trending and you'll get to know what to touch on yes i saw on your on your video on youtube i saw you even interviewing other your fellow schoolmates or kids yes how did you come up with that idea what were you doing there we were actually competing boarding versus day school okay yeah so talking about uh which school is best which type as in going back home and seeing your parents or getting enough time to learn or getting enough time to learn or so so if if i'm boarding you feel like it's a good thing to be in boarding school or is it a good thing to be in day school me for me i think it's a good thing to be in boarding school okay yeah because you get enough time to learn yes you love boarding yes would you like your mum to take you to boarding oh that is already emerald school is a boarding is a boarding yes so that's why you love boarding school yes okay okay so when you're boarding and you are interviewing and you're talking to your your fellow kids and you are interviewing them um do you also get to learn things from the other side yes okay when you see young talent like like this i believe that it gives you some some drive some something to look up something to wake up in the morning and say you know what i want to do this now maybe ram i take you back because when you are going to school earlier our days we couldn't have this opportunity we couldn't get this chance to create a youtube we couldn't have chance to get a teacher who nurture your your maybe your career imagine in fact we were jangling things up here and there just to fix to know what would i like to be in the near future some people are walking into school bare feet bare feet and in fact you could come back at home and miss even lunch because you didn't have lunch by that time but we thank god because time has changed and then we have a type of bracket with us in in our school we really appreciate and again we also want to acknowledge the cbc now we are talking about her being in grade four and we are not just saying that cbc uh is just something that is there maybe no is here is there to help us to nurture talents like that of natasha now that natasha is here talking of becoming a journalist and the in the near future she wants to emulate and do be like ram ram and again victoria rubadiri how can we nurture this thing and come up clearly cbc is there to aid us cbc is there to make us understand and tap the talents from these kids as early as 10 years start rolling it keep it rolling till now rubadiri comes out of her you you believe cbc is a good move for the country of course it is because uh rafa i don't want to ask you this question but i want to assume that you came to realize yourself as a journalist maybe later after fomfo that is true that is true yes after fomfo from my end i was like i want to be a journalist at the same time i want to be a teacher at the same time i said i want to be a lawyer so at the end of the day i i found myself in between trying to fix but good from our end we are able to tap and nurture the talents and give them the pathway that they deserve when i was growing up yes um my my my parents always asking me this question what do you want to be when you grow up at first i said a doctor natasha yeah i want to be a doctor a doctor yes and then i said i want to be an architect and then i got confused and then later on i said um i want to be i came up with so many things and i realized i wanted to be a journalist after my fomfo true yeah when you're growing up okay you see mum the first time i was growing up i told her i want to be a singer singer yes do you love singing yeah okay so it's it it's changed again yes again when she asked me i said i want to be a dancer wow okay so when did you sir he's journalist he looked just a bad guy yeah after then i grew older yeah so then when she asked me i said now i'm not changing i want to become a journalist so you won't change it i will not change it but kids change their mind yes they do but again at the same time it all depends on the the environment that is awful you see when you live this kid in an open uh like a vacuum now yes nobody is there to nurture these kids nobody is there to guide them and orient their mind and orient them their mind like now already she's on a tv as we are speaking right now she is interacting with what she wants to become in the future so this one will help this kid to grow knowing what she wants to be but now look at her scenario you are growing back in the village you have never interacted with that tv you have never interacted with a role model that will help you the teachers or maybe we don't mean where they are but again you know the the environment is so important is a tool to lead you where you want to go let me look at uh uh the angle of parenting yes i know you want to be a musician but so makuwanza i know you want to do music i want to sing but so makuwanza what do you think about that particular approach of parenting uh we will we will not say it is bad coming from a teacher's perspective perspective because you deal with parents yes we deal with parents but again we need to be alive to the fact that uh the world is a landed world that we are living in today and therefore as much as you want to be a musician you want to sing you must have a language you must have a language to communicate your message to the audience again i will not really criticize the parent angle of you because again she or he is helping you to get this language to get the media because you're not singing in your vernacular you know you will only be limited to where your language is and then you'll be having a problem with language barrier to the rest of the audience so when you have the language if you go through school through the school you get this language you acquire the skills you'll be very easy for you even to go internationally you get it and therefore i will not say that it's bad at the same time a parent should also allow the child on the other end to explore the area that this child wants to be when he or she becomes a grown-up what do you think about mam? mam has supported you at least we are seeing that she's she's doing some things what do you think about how parents are coming from you know your perspective from your own eyes was as you know at first you want to be this you want to be that sayizi you want to be a journalist and mam is supporting you you see nipwa yes because they are helping us choose what's better for our life and what's better for our future yes and do you feel like even other kids your age can also be helped to realize the career they want to take yeah of course it's possible yes what can you tell those who are watching you lewa when you want to be a journalist come however improve and try your best don't be shy on camera and speak of what you can wow she she gives me goosebumps i want us to wrap this conversation up and of course mr nyongesa i'll give you time to of course have a final word and also tell us what subjects you teach in your school as we bring this conversation to a close also give us your parting shot all right thank you so much mr raf or our host mr rafia i called you raf ram it should be ram yes i'm sorry i have a colleague of mine called raf and so and also people around in the school called raf but you are ram raf correct they did your magic but yes she did now um as i said my name is mr nyongesa i'm a deputy principal in leku group of schools and i want to say this uh from our end as a school and our directorship i want to say thank you and the number one uh i also thank the parent to our guy here who has done marvelous things to enable us be where we are because without time maybe we wouldn't know ram and at the same time say ram kudos for giving us a chance to interact with you on this platform is we are a school located in three counties and that is in Nairobi in Komariko area we are also in machakos that is county number 16 utawala area and we are also in county 034 that is in kajadu kitingela and therefore you can reach uh to us in our social media platforms that is facebook and youtube we never and at any given time we are there to nurture talents like what we are having today here that is natasha brakha and to build if you have a kid in any sphere in any area of uh his life if he is aftabola or she's aftabola we are nurturing and bringing up a holistic citizen all right god fearing our motto is honoring god through excellence and that is what we pursue and hoi boi bileo tu na vuli a kofia a stationi moja kabambe stationia y 25 bishwari nyewe jibuni bona wende kwingine kamasi y 25 aza reza tu kona shabiki natasha nataka tu malze interview sendeo natuki malizia nataka utu umbe um uh you know speak to your fellow edhmets but now tell them something that can inspire them encourage someone muja kuhomsaisi someone watching you you know motivate them within a short time wu kibana kumbeni um i would like to say keep off and look up to your image and don't give up never give up wow what's your youtube channel my youtube channel is natasha braca daily natasha braca daily so guys go there subscribe to that channel support young talent build young talent are you a parent do you have young talent then you feel uh you don't know how to handle it you don't know what to do about it keep engaging with us and of course we shall be able to you know uh communicate on our online platform thank you so much young yo welcome Sunday Santa仁bu braca natasha yes keep it up i'm proud of you all right and i should be best okay and of course that presents to the end of this uh a discussion we still have more coming up your way right here on why in the morning my name is Ram aguko it has been a pleasure being with you but stick with us because in our next conversation we want to talk about the next issue concerning your career this is why in the morning


What is going on guys welcome back to the channel and I do appreciate you being here today I bring you another destiny 2 video and today guys I bring you this simple unique little trick Which allows you to actually experience destiny 2 from a third-person perspective Now yeah, I agree to some this will be kind of a pointless video I won't can't argue that but to others who actually prefer third-person games doing this will allow you to Experience the game in a way you've probably been wondering about for many many years How would destiny feel in third-person perspective? But before we go any further guys if you do enjoy the video and more like show support You can by hitting that like button and if you are new around to enjoy daily destiny 2 videos be sure to subscribe Okay, so to experience what destiny 2 would feel like and play like in third-person Simply head to Nessus and load into the watchers grave area before you do that They'll make sure you are using a subclass in which the super you have selected puts you into a third-person perspective Also grab yourself a sidearm as it seems to work for me straight away using a sidearm to the other weapons I struggle to do it Don't worry though once you've actually gotten to a third-person mold you can actually change through any weapon you want So load into the watchers grave area upon Nessus and when you have a full super simply head to learn a ship So once here is pretty simple jump up onto a ship and when you get to this point on this ramp right here Walking up this ramp you will see you withdraw your weapons and you can't use your abilities and so forth So it's achieved right here. Simply walk up this ramp and as you enter the area of not being able to use your abilities And weapons simply activate your super so as you cross the border of no ability use use your super if time correctly You will stay in that third-person mold meaning you can travel about Unnecess in third-person and experience the game in a whole different point of view now We ain't gonna lie. I hate third-person games Well, I don't hate them I just ain't particularly fond of them and destiny 2 in third-person doesn't change my mind But I know many of you people out there feel quite the opposite Which is absolutely fine and the reason I'm making this video So yeah guys give this a bash if it's something you've always been interested in Now a massive shout out to wire the red for bringing this to my attention by sending me a clip into my top five So a massive credit to him but on that note I am out and this is how you can legit play third-person in destiny To things that will take you out of this third-person mode We're out in your sparrow activating end of a super I believe using certain emotes and obviously traveling to other spawn locations and dying to clearly So yeah guys enjoy this if it's your kind of thing But on that note we have come to the end of the video if you guys enjoyed it leaving a like really does help out If you are new around here and enjoy daily destiny 2 videos Be sure to subscribe and if you never want to miss a video upload a content notifications on by hitting that bell button But guys thanks as always for stopping by hopefully you enjoyed the video and hopefully I will see you on that next one