I love people's reactions when I tell them what I do. They're either really grossed out by it or they think that I am amazing. It should not take all day to do a placenta. I was training on twins. Pathologist assistants, we are the eyes and the hands of the pathologists. The draw for me is having a job where I get to work with my hands and I'm not stuck to a computer all day. Fast paced, moving all the time. These are looked at as a leader in the lab anyway. Top of the pay grade, non-faces, masters. I love that every day is different. I'm still seeing new things every day, learning new things. I love that it's so gross. To me, it's kind of like this morbid Christmas morning where you have all these presents to open up and you just don't know what you're gonna find. So the way I would summarize it is if you really love the human body, especially gross pieces of the human body and you wanna see that and work with that every day and you think it's exciting, this is the job for you. Yeah, it's like dirty jobs. So if you love healthcare but you would prefer to be behind the scenes, this is a really good place for you. So I'll just vomit some knowledge on you. That's exactly it. You got a lot of knowledge I don't. That's why you're here. So I'm very thankful for that and I think it's gonna help a lot of people. Hi everybody, my name is Boris. Welcome to my first episode of healthcare career highlights. Today we're talking with Shauna. She's a pathologist assistant, not to be confused with physician assistant. So for the rest of this video, when we say PA, we're talking about the pathologist assistant profession. Shauna, thank you so much for taking the time to meet with me and to tell the world about your profession. I'm happy to be here. So all I really know about being a PA, a pathologist assistant is that you work in the lab in the hospital. You have great hours and you make like a hundred grand a year and that sounds pretty sweet. So what is a pathologist assistant? So a pathologist assistant is just like a physician assistant. We are allied health professionals that are essentially physician extenders. In the case of pathologist assistants, we are academically and practically trained specifically to only work with one type of doctor and that's a pathologist. So to understand the role of a pathologist assistant, you really have to know and be familiar with what a pathologist does. So pathologists, they are behind every diagnosis. When you go in for a biopsy or a skin scraping or, ooh, let's use a mole example. Okay, so you go into your doctor and he is doing a skin check and he notices maybe a funny mole. He recommends that you get a biopsy and see what it is. Is it something concerning or not? So that mole is shaved. It gets sent in to the lab. A gross tech will dissect it. It gets submitted to histology for processing and it gets turned into a slide. That slide then goes to the pathologist and he looks at it under the microscope and based on what he sees, he will, he or she, let's get that in there. Absolutely. We'll make a diagnosis if it's benign, inflammatory, is it malignant, something you need to go back and now you need to have more skin removed because it is malignant. Every diagnosis comes from a pathologist but there's a lot of work that gets done before a pathologist is able to look at it as a slide. Another example to help understand the world of pathology is colonoscopies, right? So you turn 50, you need to go in for your recommended colonoscopy and they find a polyp. Well, they're gonna biopsy that polyp and they're gonna send it to pathology. It goes through processing, gets turned into a slide and then it goes to a pathologist. Pathologists will tell your doctor what it is and your treatment will be determined based on that diagnosis. Now patients never meet their pathologists. Pathologists only work with other doctors. So being in the lab, we are behind every decision that's made especially for cancer but nobody knows who we are or what we do. But it is incredibly important. So what you're saying is you practice medicine but you don't really interact with patients.  So basically a pathologist is an MD, they're a doctor. They specialize in looking at human specimens, whether that's in the middle of a surgery or that's like a urine sample or a blood sample or anything that's basically taken to help in making a diagnosis. So that's what a pathologist does. And so then what does a pathologist assistant do? So essentially pathologist assistants receive in buckets things that come out of surgery which is a lot of different things. I think most people think of going into surgery for cancer but sometimes you get your gallbladder taken out or your appendix taken out. There's lots of different things. Our bodies are amazing and they grow really weird things and sometimes they have to be taken out by a surgeon and that's where we come in. So essentially we get body parts in buckets and we dissect through them. We are trained to know the different pathologic processes to be able to recognize grossly if something is concerning for malignancy or if it's a benign process like inflammation. So really pathologist assistants, we are the eyes and the hands of the pathologist because the pathologist is not going to see the vast majority of the specimens. So when we give a specimen, we begin the report. It's called a gross dictation, a gross description of that specimen. And then we dissect through it and look for any abnormalities, maybe nodules, areas of firmness, things that we've been trained that are concerning. And then we take small sections and submit it for processing and then those are what get turned into slides. So the pathologist only is looking at what I am submitting. Now the pathologist can always say, I need more and we can submit more tissue if they don't have enough for diagnosis or maybe the sections that I submitted had some autolysis going on and they need more sections that are better for diagnosis. Okay, I like what you said there that you're the hands and the eyes of the pathologist. So basically a specimen comes to the lab from whatever kind of surgery or whatever kind of procedure and the pathologist only really sees it and they're specialized to diagnose things once it's already on a little slide, perfectly made. So they're specialized in that. They don't see the whole body part and they definitely don't get to like cut it up and see what's concerning and what's not. They just kind of do the last step which is their specialty. You as a pathologist assistant actually get to see the entire, for instance, like when I was in the lab with you we saw an entire placenta. Actually, I think it was a twin placenta so it was really interesting to see but you actually see the whole body part just right there on your lab bench and you get to decide what parts you're gonna cut up, what parts you're gonna send to the pathologist for analysis, what parts are normal. That's all you. Yeah. That actually sounds cooler. I feel like I'd rather be a pathologist assistant than a pathologist because if you like anatomy and physiology I think it'll be cooler to see the whole part instead of just like in a little slides. And they are trained. So residents, pathology residents, they go through gross training. So they've done exactly what I've done but their time on it is shorter. And they are also trained in autopsy. I think it used to be 50 minimum autopsies they had to do during their residency but now it's reduced down to I think 20 because autopsy is the number is declining. At least as far as hospitals goes there's always gonna be the need for forensic but that's a whole different, that's all that's involved in. You know, we're definitely gonna talk about that because I think a lot of people who think pathologists also think like, you know, on CSI when they're looking at the body postmortem that's not what you guys do. Yes, that we are trained in autopsy, pathology as well as forensic pathology depending on how large your hospital is most like average size hospitals only have maybe 50 autopsies a year so you're not doing autopsies that often. Now, forensic autopsy, those are medical examiner cases and pathologist assistants while we are trained in forensic pathology there's not a whole lot of PAs right now working in the Emmy's office because they can pay a pathologist and they can pay dinners or autopsy texts which they get paid a lot less. So they, at this moment, things are changing and it also depends on the state. So in the state of Minnesota PAs can work in forensic pathology but they take on many more roles. So they're working on forensic pathology, autopsy pathology as well as surgical pathology. So that's kind of cool. So as a PA, you could work in a lab setting, you could work in kind of an emergency setting but you could also be not exactly a medical examiner but have a lot of those roles in your job too. I think I do see the role of a PA evolving to include more forensic pathology and I know that a lot of people are interested in that. Yeah. It's just redefining the job description and kind of opening up the responsibilities as far as what falls under the certification. So I think at this point, like the PAs, we can write up the clinical history and the PAD and maybe even help work on the FAD but we can't sign it out.  That makes sense. So kind of like the physician assistant profession, the PA pathologist assistant profession is probably quite new and also evolving and getting into all these new avenues. How old is your profession? Oh, I wanna say it's like 30 years. Okay, so it was only around since like the 80s? I wanna say, I mean the 70s. I think it started in the 70s. Okay, so pretty similar. It seems like a lot of these physician extender physicians have only been around for about 50 years, 60s and 70s is when a lot of this stuff seems to have really taken off. So that's pretty cool. And the drive really is a shortage of pathologists. Residents and art residents, but med students as they're going through and they're figuring out what type of doctor they wanna be less and less, they are choosing to be pathologists. So as long as there are shoes to fill because we have a shortage of pathologists, there's always gonna be room for fees to grow and fill that role in different ways. Yeah, it seems like that's the way medicine is going in a lot of avenues. So like there's a health care or there's a shortage of primary care providers for doctors just because it's the lowest paid specialty. And that's probably the main thing. So now nurse practitioners, physician assistants are filling those roles. You can pay them a lot less than a physician because they were trained for less time, two years as opposed to close to 10. But they can do a lot of the same work and it's just a great opportunity for folks like us who don't wanna go to school as long, but do wanna do the work. Yeah. So it's amazing. And I think in the future, there will be fellowships for PAs to specifically train in maybe a subtype of pathology, like maybe GI. So in the future, we can help triage slides. And I would love to see the role open up to maybe even help signing out cases for non-malignant things. Also like you kind of go through the whole process. If it doesn't look nearly bad enough to you to even warrant a pathologist looking at it, a PA would be able to sign off on it instead of it going all the way up to the pathologist. Or at least maybe put all of the report together and it still gets the pathologist would look it over and see if they agree with the diagnosis and still have the final signature on it. But things for like polyps or like inflammatory diseases like Crohn's or UC, things that are not malignant and maybe less like lower risk. Okay. That's a way we could start wedging in our way to microscopics. So kind of expanding your scope of practice. Yeah, yeah. And I think really the only way PAs are involved in microscopics right now is in research. So, which is something that I can see myself interested in later down the road because you're not making a diagnosis. You are conducting research, you're writing papers, based on what you're finding. So a PA can do that. That makes sense. So that's kind of exciting kind of the scope of practice for PAs can move up to be a little bit more similar to like what a physician assistant does in some settings. Like obviously they're really complicated patients or they're really complicated cases, the doctor would still definitely be the one to handle that. But something that seems a little more straightforward, we can handle it all the way up until the very end where the doctor basically just says, this is what I would have done. I'm signing off on it. Thank you for doing basically all the work I would have. So it's just kind of exciting. We get to practice as physicians with that little, well, I guess that big safety net of the actual physician making sure we don't mess anything up. Great. Yeah, that's really exciting. So what is a pathologist assistants day like? What do you do day to day? I think honestly it also depends on where you work. So you could work for a private pathology group that contracts with a lot of different clinics. So in that case, you are just in a central lab that all the specimens are coming to you from all over or you could be working at a large hospital and you are where the specimens are. And in that, so in the instance of private practice where you're receiving all these specimens from all these different clinics, you won't have some of the responsibilities like frozen sections because you're not in a hospital with a surgical suite. So what you do on the daily basis will highly depend on what type of pathology group you work for and if you are in a hospital or a central lab or maybe you are helping out with autopsies. And the role also changes if the hospital is an academic institution versus a non-academic institution because academic places, if they're attached to their own school of medicine, the PAs also take on the role of training residents. And pathology residents. Pathology residents, yes. So you'll have responsibilities to train pathology residents in grossing techniques as well as autopsy techniques. And what else? Academic. Oh, go ahead. At an academic institution as well, you are probably going to take more sections, take more pictures because they're always thinking about publications. And you'll also be submitting more for perhaps tissue banking or future research projects. So academic institutions, I feel, they open up a lot of opportunities for PAs to do all the things we were trained to do in school. That's pretty cool. So depending on where you work, let's say you like some aspects of being a PA more than others, you can kind of choose a job based on what you really like to do. It's not like every job is the same. Absolutely, absolutely. I know that there are definitely people out there who don't like the stress of frozen sections. So they will be happy to find a job with a private group that doesn't deal with frozen sections. That's available for them. For sure. And I actually want to talk about the job market and how easy it is to find some of these jobs in just a moment. But one thing I'd kind of like to summarize and kind of make sure I understand correctly. So something you were talking about earlier was how pathologists are trained to do everything that you're trained to do. They can do all the gross anatomy. They can do all the sectioning and stuff. But just because it's more efficient for them to do the final product and for you to do that, that's why pathology assistants exist. You're kind of specialized in those parts of their process that they don't do a whole lot. And then because you're the experts in that, you actually train the pathology residents to do those things, is that right? Yes. And I will say too that pathologists, the whole point of us taking over the gross dissection and all of this kind of hands-on work is also to keep the pathologists at the microscope because that's the moneymaker. Yeah, so it's all financial. Yeah. So it's kind of like a surgeon is most financially beneficial when they're in the OR. The way things are going in the surgery realm is like physician assistants are kind of taking the pre-surgery care and the after-surgery appointments so that the surgeons can stay in the OR where the hospital gets paid the most. So it sounds like it's the same thing with pathology. They're paid the most at the microscope. So the hospital wants to keep them there and then they hire people like Shauna to do all the prep and all that stuff. Precisely. Okay. And so even if a pathologist really likes gross anatomy and they really like sectioning and they like preparing the samples and seeing the entire body part, the hospital says, no, you need to stay at the microscope. We're gonna hire Shauna for three or four times less money to do that fun stuff because it's more efficient. Yeah. Okay. So we talked about working in different areas, different kinds of hospitals, different kinds of labs. So what is the job market for a pathologist assistant, a PA? Is it easy to get a job? How competitive are these jobs? I, in my experience, I will say that labs are growing and positions that are open are not because people are leaving there because the practice is growing and they need, there's more work, they need more PAs. Everyone in the class before me, they all had jobs before they graduated. The same for everyone. Wow. The same for the class before and the class before. I will say that if you are tied to a specific city or a specific state, then things will become more difficult for you because our certification is national. There are jobs all over the country. But if you're not willing to go to the job, you will have more difficulty. So it's definitely easy to get a job overall. Like you said, everybody in your class and the class before you had a job before graduating, which is incredible. I know with PA school, it's definitely not like that or with a physician assistant school, it's definitely not like that. You know, the job market's great, but it's not that great. So that sounds extremely good. Are some specialties in some areas better paid than others? I would say the average is around 85 to 95 starting, but that's dependent on where you are in the country just because cost of living is different. So if you're in New York versus the Midwest somewhere, versus the California, I mean, San Francisco is super expensive. So you better get paid more if you're working out in San Francisco. That makes sense, but that's new grad is average of like 90,000. How much can you expect to grow as you get more experience? I think definitely over 100K. And it's also highly dependent on what extra responsibilities do you take on? PAs can function in management roles. Actually being in a senior position, a highly trained position, you are most often PAs are looked at as a leader in the lab anyway. But if you wanna make more money, you're probably gonna have to take on a management role. And I could easily, if you wanna be a lab manager somewhere, even possibly move up into director position. You know, maybe 150. So just a really quick comparison here just because I'm a physician assistant student, Shauna is a pathology assistant student. It sounds like the job market is definitely more reliable for pathology assistants and they make about the same almost identical actually to physician assistants with the same room for growth. So it's really interesting. And so for you personally Shauna, aside from the great salary and the potential for a really good schedule, why did you actually choose to become a PA? I love people's reactions when I tell them what I do. They're either really grossed out by it or they think that I am amazing. So the polarization of the response to what I get, what people think, I needed a hands-on job. I love that I get to work with just co-workers and colleagues, I'm behind the scenes. I love that every day is different. I don't know what is gonna come to my bench.  I don't see myself getting bored especially with different opportunities like I mentioned before in academic institutions. There's just a lot of things that I could do. So when I do get bored with something, there's something that I can pivot to to keep my interest again. So for me it hits, it checks all the boxes. Absolutely. And more specifically about actually the role of a PA, working in the lab, getting gowned up, working in a kind of a sterile environment, like the actual day-to-day work of being in a lab. Did you always enjoy that? I will say that there are times where you are really, really busy and you feel like maybe you're on a, like a working line and you're just, you know, banging out specimen after specimen. But at the end of the day, every specimen comes from a person, right? So it is incredibly important that we take each specimen seriously. So for me to have that purpose attached to what I'm doing is also really important. So like with every job, especially every professional high-paid job, you know, there's an element of the grind in it. You're there to be productive and sometimes it gets really hard, but it sounds like you really appreciate the fact that your job helps people and every single specimen, even if you get a hundred in an afternoon, every one of those is from a person. And so you do your best because it's literally you're helping a person, you're saving their life. There, I worked at a lab that said, treat each specimen like it came from your grandma. Oh, that's good. Yeah. And then that will change your mindset. Let's say you're getting frustrated because of the workload. Just think of it, treat the specimen as if it was your grandma or your grandpa. Yeah. I think that's something they tell a lot of healthcare providers. And it's funny. It's different ways that it kind of becomes a grind like with hands-on actual patient care providers like I'm gonna be a PA, a physician assistant or a nurse practitioner or a doctor. The grind kind of becomes, I wish I could spend more time with this person and influence their life more or maybe people are rude to you. So you have to kind of have that emotional, kind of thick skin and just really kind of get through the day that way. To you, like you said, it's more of like being on an assembly line. There's just so much work and it's hard to connect. But at the same time, like every one of those, you just want to help a person and you're doing it at such a high level that it is really gratifying. Another thing that I just kind of thought of is if you think about it, every specimen that comes to your bench is a diagnosis, is potentially cancer. So you doing a good job could potentially save someone's life. But you can do that way more times than a doctor or a physician assistant can see patients in a day. So basically the point I'm making is you can get through well over a hundred small specimens in a day and every one of those could be someone's life if you diagnose colon cancer, like we're talking about. Whereas even a very efficient, very, very speedy healthcare provider will never see a hundred patients in a day. They might see 30, maybe 40 if they're insanely fast but will never have the same number of people that we can help per day that you do. So that's just kind of a cool way I was thinking about it. Oh, yeah. So transitioning to PA programs, pathologist assistant training programs. So because it's such a desirable job, I'm assuming PA programs are pretty competitive. So how difficult is it to get into PA school? You know, I don't know if I can say exactly how many applicants. I know that there are hundreds of applicants and each program only accepts maybe two or to 25. I think the largest group is 25. That's pretty old percentage. Yeah, because they're not taking a lot of students every year, it really limits. I mean, that's what makes it competitive, right? There's limited spots. So who gets those spots? Right, so here's what you can do to kind of beef up your application. I think it is incredibly important to be familiar with this profession, meaning that you have worked as a growth tech side by side with a PA. At minimum, you should shadow a PA and know what their day to day looks like and make sure that that's right for you. It's a two year program and it's an intense two years. So you should really make sure that you want to do this before you get started. And if you can't work as a growth tech, I have had classmates that didn't have any grossing experience, but they did have autopsy experience, so they worked as a deaner. So either get yourself some autopsy experience, work as a growth tech, which you don't have to have a bachelor's degree to be a growth tech. You just have to have a minimum number of biology and chemistry classes taken already. So close. Usually it's like junior, senior year of like a biology degree. If you have enough science credits to qualify to be a growth tech. So go do that. Observe an autopsy because I don't think you know you can handle that until you're actually in the room. So if you can, sometimes that can be difficult if you don't already have connections in the hospital to observe. But if you can, try and get as much exposure to pathologies as you can. You're gonna have to take anatomy and physiology. If you have TA experience in anatomy or physiology, that would look really great. They like to see genetics and biochemistry. Those are not required, but they like to see those classes as part of your undergraduate degree. What else? So being proficient in a lot of the higher level science courses, especially obviously anatomy and physiology experience, you said might even be more important than grades. You have to know what a PA does and you have experience in the autopsy lab, preferably in the lab, just making sure you know what you're getting into or that you really wanna do it. Yeah, I think if you can demonstrate you have a good understanding of the profession that that is really important. I had really good grades. I think that that does make you competitive. Some programs require the GRE, some do not. So maybe that's a factor in where you apply. Is there like a minimum number of hours of experience that you need in a gross lab or a pathology lab or anything like that? Or is it just you need to demonstrate that you understand what you're doing? Yeah, to my understanding at this moment, programs don't have a minimum requirement for shadowing PAs or even autopsy because they know that it's difficult for people to find that if they're not already in, if they don't have a network that allows them to do that. Right. So they don't have that as a requirement but that's what makes you competitive. Okay, so it's not required but it is the best thing for you to do. And so that in addition to good grades is what you really need to get into PA school. Yes. So would you say anything else as far as advice on how to get into PA school for people who might be interested in this profession? I think pick a program, look at their clinical partners and decide how you want your clinical year to be shaped and that can help you decide on where to go when you're applying. I think as far as getting into pathology assisting school as long as your grades are really good and you've demonstrated that you know what a pathologist assistant does, when you interview, I think they also consider demeanor and if you present yourself as someone with energy and a good attitude and a willingness to learn especially in excitement and passion for the profession that that's also really important. There is an interview aspect of this.  I will say this as well. Having prior working experience is also really helpful. If you work as a med tech, that's awesome. If you worked as a histotech or a histotechnologist that's really great because the specimens you submit as a PA feed into histology. So knowing the histology department is really gonna help you out. Even being an EMT, is that right? An EMT, what's the emergency medical people? What are they doing? Yeah, like the people on the ambulance and EMT. EMT, yeah. So EMT experience is even really helpful because if you are doing autopsies, they come with all those, I don't know if this is morbid or not but the bodies arrive with all the lines and tubes with them. So you need to know what those are so you can document them. Okay, so not just lab experience but basically medical experience being a patient care tech and EMT, something like that could also help you. Yes, 100%. That's cool, that makes sense. So it sounds like there's no strict guidelines for how many hours but you just have to demonstrate that you know the whole medical process, you've worked in the medical field and preferably in histology and things like that. That makes sense. So do you feel comfortable sharing your stats? I know pre-PA, pre-med students always like their stats. What GPA do I need? How many hours? So what was your GPA? Sure, so I graduated with a degree in biotechnology with a three nine. Wow, does everybody need a three nine to have a chance at getting into PA school? No, I think that at minimum you need a three O. Keep this in mind. The reason why I think they look at that is when you are in the program, you need to maintain a GPA of a three point O. So even though you have 18 credit hours a semester and you are under all this pressure, if you don't maintain that three point O, you could be asked to leave program.  So you're more likely to be successful if they accept you into the program. Yeah, it's interesting. One thing, so one of my most popular videos is how to get into PA school with a low GPA. And a lot of people who maybe didn't do very well in college still want an amazing job like being a PA, a physician assistant or a pathology assistant. But one thing that you really need to ask yourself is if you ended up graduating with a low GPA, you may have had some struggles, some obstacles or some things that came up. So maybe you are a good student, but something's happened. But you need to look at it from the school's perspective and they have this incredibly rigorous curriculum. And the job that you're gonna do is incredibly important and difficult academically and people's lives depend on it. So it does make sense that you really do want as high of a GPA as possible so that they can trust you and your academic abilities. But I guess what I'm looking for here is numbers. So like you had a 39, you got in, you said at least a 30, just based on your experience about what was the average college GPA of the applicant that actually got in. Oh, I feel like we're all type A, high, strong perfectionists. So if they all weren't above a three, like six, I would be very surprised. Okay, so definitely high GPA. Yeah, but I will say this, depending on the program that you could make up for it, as long as you meet the minimum requirements, they're not going to throw those out of the window for you. But as long as you meet the minimum requirements, I feel like you could make it up with experience. You've worked as a growth tech for years. You've worked as a histotech for years or a dener to come with that experience. I think you could make up for a poor GPA. That makes sense. So I had a really strong background. I did research projects. I worked as a research assistant while I was in school. And after I graduated, I ended up kind of moving more towards histology and I took, I studied and I took the histotechnologist exam. So I am also a certified histotechnologist and that's how I got into pathology. After I moved into histology, I then wanted to learn more about grossing. So I moved into the gross room, as they call it. And I worked as a path tech, starting on small things, polyps, appendices, gallbladders, things of that nature. And that's when I met a PA and we started working together and said, you know, this is really cool. I would love to handle these bigger specimens. So that's how I got sucked into pathology assisting. So it's kind of like a lesser known profession, at least to me. I didn't know anything about it until we met. And it sounds like you were the same way until you just met one randomly out in the field. No. Is that right? Well, I actually did know about pathology assisting before I met one. I was thinking, I was about to graduate with my bachelor's degree and I was like, do I go on for my master's? Am I done yet? I don't feel like I'm done. But I also don't want to worry about a thesis. So I might have Googled non-thesis master's degrees and pathology. And that's what came up was pathology assisting. So then that search led to one of the local labs in Salt Lake City where I was living at at the time. They happened to have a pathology assisting opening and it was at the top. If you can sort your search by pay grade and they were at the top of the pay grade. So it started ticking a lot of boxes for me, top of the pay grade, non-thesis master's and then I really started to look more about the profession. And that's actually what changed my direction into histology because I knew that was a way I could get into pathology was through histology. So maybe that should be the slogan for the PA profession, a better paid, more exciting alternative to research. Not to beat up on researchers. No, I mean, it's important. Somebody's got to do it. Research is fun. I think that for me that the turnoff of a PhD was, I felt like you spend a lot of time writing, asking for money, like finding grant money. True. And I don't know that I have the patience for that. I like the more fast paced environment of what I'm doing now. That's really interesting because, okay, so I know a lot of pre-meds. There's definitely way more pre-meds than there are pre-PAs. Everybody goes to college who studies biology thinking, I'm gonna be a doctor or maybe a PA, like a physician assistant. And they always push you into research. And so they always make you like do lab work and all this stuff. And some people end up falling in love with it and going the PhD route and being researchers. And then some people just kind of do it and then go into med school or physician assistant school. But there's this interesting kind of like in between happy median, which is what you do, which is still clinical, still fast paced, still way better paid than research, at least for most people, but you're still in the lab. Yeah, it's great. Absolutely. So can you tell me what the training is like? I think it's about a two-year program, right? It is a two-year program. So the first year is didactic. It's all coursework. I had 18 credit hours every semester. Fun. So it's three semesters, you don't get a break. So it's nonstop for two years, summer, spring, fall, everything. It's a lot of classes. It was a lot of work, a lot of late nights. But the prize is the second year. And the second year is one complete year of clinical rotation. So you rotate through different places and where you rotate is dependent on where you go to school at. So each university has their own clinical partners and they all have their own different way of doing this clinical year. So in didactic year, like you said, it's a ton of late nights. It's a lot of work because you're learning anatomy at a very, very high level, probably more. Go ahead. It is not just anatomy. So a lot of what we're learning is pathology. So we are learning pathology, applied pathology, gross pathology. There's a lot of different angles coming at pathology. So you have to go through every organ system. You have to learn what's normal. You have to learn what's just benign. What is the healing process look like in this organ? Versus, yeah. And then what does cancer look like in this organ? Because you could have, you know, carcinoma in different organs, right? But it looks different in each organ. Right. So what you're basically trained to do is to know the entire body anatomically, all of the disease processes that every organ system can have and what they look like at every stage of the disease and every stage of healing. And the reason for that is because a specimen comes to your bench, you have to know exactly where that came from, what you're looking at, and basically to help make a diagnosis that way. Yeah. So we have to learn about differential diagnosis, right? Yeah. So we have to know, okay, what commonly happens in this organ? Is it an infectious process? What are the common infections of this organ? Like specifically about lung. Oh, no, I don't wanna talk specifically about lung. We could do specifically gallbladder. Or yeah, gallbladder. I mean, I feel like gallbladder has something more of a growth tech would do and not necessarily appear. Oh no. Okay. But it's a good example because people know what gallbladders are. Exactly. So a specific example, let's say you get a gallbladder on your bench and you basically have to know what's normal for a gallbladder to look like. What's not normal? What could be going on with this person? And you also get their symptoms and like what they said they were feeling and the imaging and you have to make that final diagnosis based on what it looks like. We're not a diagnosis because PAs don't make diagnosis but we do steer the pathologist in a direction based on describing what we see. So in a gallbladder, we do know what normal looks like. Very commonly it will have cholesterolosis. Colesistitis is usually why it's being taken out. We look for stones and if you have large stones they can even erode through the gallbladder. So that's something important to note in your dictation. So all of these things like we've discussed before we are the eyes and the hands of the pathologist and the pathologist needs to know all of this even though they're not in a seated gallbladder. Right. So you're training to basically know what every single part of the body looks like normal and abnormal with all the common diseases that that part gets. And best of all, you only get one year to learn all that. So I can see why there's so many late nights.  What's with all the water metaphors because medical school and PA school like physician assistant school they always say fire hose or fire hydrant of information. You got a tidal wave. That's even more dramatic. Yeah. Yeah, because you're just watching it coming at you. Just... And somehow a lot of it's sticking you just don't get to sit there and appreciate how much you've learned because there's always more stuff to learn. There is. Ooh, I have another way of explaining it too. So first year the didactic year is like you're in a tornado full of like book pages and you're in the middle of the tornado just trying to grab onto whatever book page that you need to know or retain. I love all these dramatic metaphors, but that's true because like it feels like you're in like you said, a tornado. You don't know which way is up and down and you realize that you have to know all this stuff and it's all around you, but there's so much of it. It's really chaotic. First year in PA school is really chaotic. I think that the gift is the second year and that's when you get to apply all this stuff and go, holy crap, I actually know a lot. You do, do you surprise yourself because you know more than you think? Right. And you get to make those connections, right? Oh, I read about this, but now I'm actually seeing it. So now that starts to lock information in. Yeah, that's, I mean, for my own experience as well, that's probably the most gratifying thing is like you read about something, you might even see a bunch of pictures of it, but until you actually see it and touch it and know exactly what color it is in real life, you don't really truly appreciate it, that then once you see that, you're hooked. Yeah. It's so cool. So then, so first year is just a ton of information, learning all the stuff we just talked about. Second year is different clinical rotations in various kinds of pathology labs. And how many of those are there? You said you get a whole year? It's a full year in that how many you have is really, you know, dependent on your program and how they manage their students. I know that some places you could have a full year rotation at one place, but that's possible because that one place does everything. Frozen section, autopsy, large complex cases as well as smaller cases. So a student can rotate at one place for the full year if their rotation site can provide all of that. I think most places you're gonna rotate at least four different institutions. So you'd have three month blocks. And I know that at least some programs you will rotate through an ME's office. So you will get your autopsy training at an ME's office because it's really hard to get autopsy training at a hospital when they only have maybe one a week and you're only there for a few months. So it's easier to get your autopsy training at an ME's office where it's all day back to back to back to back. Makes sense. And it sounds like whatever accreditation body gives you your certification, they have requirements of like, you have to have a certain number of autopsies, a certain number of this kind of specimen, certain number of that. And so you need your rotation sites to help you meet all those things. So the accrediting body for the schools is NACLs and then our NACLs, N-A-A-C-L-S. NACLs, okay. And our certification is through the ASCP. You can insert and later what that stands for. I'll look that up. I think it's the American Society of Ethologists. Okay. Something kind of like a pathologist. We'll Google it. Yeah. So that certification through the ASCP is national. And well, it's good in the U.S. and Canada and in U.S. territories. Okay. So you could practice in the U.S., Canada and any U.S. territory with that one certification. With the certification through the ASCP. That's awesome. Now, in addition to that, some states require licensure. California, New York. So basically you take your certification from the ASCP. You say here's state of California.  So it's just paperwork and money to get your license in California, New York. I think there's a few other states that require a license as well. But the vast majority, you only need your certification. Makes sense. Yeah, I know California and New York really like their paperwork and their money. So I've definitely had experience with that. But so at the end of this training, you've gone through your didactic year. You've passed all your exams. You've done everything you had to do. You went through clinicals. Then is there a final certifying exam? Yes.  It is a adaptive test. What does that mean? Is that the right word? Adaptive? I think that it's... So it's an adaptive exam, meaning if you get one question right, the next question will be harder. Oh yeah. Until you get, you're just at hard questions. So I've been told that if you feel really bad when you leave, it's because you were answering a lot of questions right. That's good. Stressful but good. Yeah. Okay. So there is a final certifying exam.  A certified PA. A certified PA and you can practice. Yes. Okay.  So that's really key when you graduate to find a job that's going to fine-tune your skills. You know, I've heard the same thing about physician assistants. It's kind of like your first year on the job is basically your residency. You have a lot of training but you're not really gonna become proficient until you're about one to two years in the field. Well, I mean, when you're training in school, it's this broad thing that you're training where when you get your first job, they're gonna have their own specialties and you finally get to hone in on one thing versus know everything. Yeah. Just a little bit of everything but not enough to apply in practice. So you said during the interview, you need to demonstrate that you know what a PA does and demonstrate enthusiasm for the profession, why you actually want to be one, why you're gonna subject yourself to this incredibly difficult training, why do you actually want to be a PA? So I'm gonna ask you, Shauna, what is your favorite thing about the PA profession and why is it that you actually wanted to be a PA? I, like I said before, I love that every day is different. I'm still seeing new things every day, learning new things. I love that it's so gross. To me, it's kind of like this morbid Christmas morning where you have all these presents to open up and you just don't know what you're gonna find. That is the best description that I have ever heard. That is phenomenal. A morbid Christmas morning where you get to work in the morning and you see all these specimens, all these body parts that were taken out of human beings and you don't know what you're gonna get. So you gotta unwrap them and then. Yeah. So here's the thing. I'm waiting in my career to find this. So there's something called a dermoid cyst. Yes. It happens in the ovary and it's a teratoma and it can grow different tissue types. So often you will find hair and sometimes like teeth. You can have brain tissue in it that you'll see microscopically. It's just this modg positive tissue types in the ovary. And one day I will find a red-headed dermoid cyst. That is your goal in life. A red-headed dermoid cyst. A red-headed dermoid cyst. That sounds incredibly rare, but it's possible. Yes.  But very basically, anyone who studied biology and embryology knows that you have the three layers, the mesoderm, exoderm and endoderm. I know I got the order wrong while you're developing. And from those layers of the embryo basically come different kinds of tissue. So muscles, brain tissue, skin and a dermoid cyst and it's basically when that goes awry and kind of a pseudo fetus starts developing and all those little layers develop into this big cyst that has just basically mystery meat in it and you don't know what kind of tissues in there. And so it could like she said, hair, teeth and all that kind of stuff. So a red-headed dermoid cyst is basically one of those happening with what would have been a red-headed baby. And she wants to find that cyst that has red hair inside it, which is already very rare. Oh yeah. We're gonna get some serious views on this video. Maybe we'll leave with a red-headed dermoid cyst. Yeah. But so I think what that basically did is it illustrated exactly the kind of person that should become a PA. Somebody who just loves anatomy, who thinks the human body, even when things go wrong, is the coolest thing in the world and they just love seeing specimens and different parts of the body and working with them. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's definitely gonna make it into somewhere around the intro. And maybe I'll post a picture of a dermoid cyst, but I'll put it at the very end so it doesn't turn anyone off. Or turn somebody on. Right? Okay, you know what? Maybe we should put the dermoid cyst in the beginning because if, so this video is for prospective PA students and PAs.  Yeah, that's a good sign. It's a good start. Basically, okay. So the way I would summarize it is if you really love the human body, especially gross pieces of the human body and you wanna see that and work with that every day and you think it's exciting, this is the job for you. Yeah.  Kind of dirty jobs, but people find pleasure in them. They love them. So it sounds like you're exactly where you wanna be and that's amazing. You've really found your niche in the world and in the hospital. And we as healthcare providers, as scientists, and especially on this channel, we like progress. We like things to get better every single day and nothing should just ever stay the same as it is. So is there anything that you would change about the pathologist assistant profession? Oh, anything that I would change. I think, give me one moment. I think I wrote something. Take your time. And I know you talked about residencies and like new avenues, so you can go that route. What question number is that? Nine. Number nine. Actually, the numbers may have changed a little bit. It's the second to last one. Okay, there we go. So, as far as what should change, I think that, I think as we discussed before, kind of opening up the responsibilities, having fellowships available to, in order for PAs to specialize in something, especially if you have, it's a larger pathology group. You have multiple PAs. Why not have each of those PAs be a specialist in something. So you have a GI specialist, a GU specialist. Maybe you have a GYN specialist. That way you have someone to turn to that has put in the extra time to really know the disease processes of that system. So you have an expert, essentially, with you at all times. I think another thing that I would really love to see is more of a standardization of how PAs are used. Because really it depends on where you work, what you're allowed to do as a PA. There are some places that are really, really great and you can do everything. So you can do search path, autopsy path, forensic pathology. They allow you to work in research. Whereas other places, maybe they're smaller and they don't have some of those things available, but you're really just, you're just grossing. You're at the bench all day long. And I think that it would be really great to just open up the profession to prevent burnout, to prevent maybe getting bored with what you're doing. Yeah, allow your PAs to grow and to specialize in something that they feel passionate about. So now you have an expert in that sub-specialty. I think that would be really cool. And I know a lot of the mid-levels nurse practitioners, physician assistants are going that route. So I don't see why pathology assistants wouldn't go that route too. Yeah. It just takes time. It just takes time. Progress takes time. And they're all new professions and they're moving into new avenues. So I'm definitely excited to see where both of these professions will go. All right, Shauna, well, this was amazing. I learned a ton about your profession and honestly, I hadn't even heard about it until I met you. So thank you for coming on the channel and teaching everyone. If anyone has any questions about the profession, leave them in the comments. Another great resource is Path Assist website. Or is the Path Assist website, can you talk just a little bit about that? Yeah, so if you go to pathassist.org, it's a website specifically for pathologist assistants, either current students or graduates. There is a job board there. We have student delegates from each program. So if you do have questions about a specific program, there is a part on the website that you can find your delegate from the program you're interested in. And you can email them specifically with questions that you have. It's just a really great resource. There's also grossing guides based on CAP guidelines. Anyone in pathology knows that CAP comes up with all the rules and regulations that we need to follow in our path lab. There are also really great resources for setting for the certification exam. There are even practice exams and quizzes on there to test yourself and see where you're at. There's a really great reading list that outlines the books that were used to create the certification exam. There are also video lectures, or no, not lectures, there were video recordings of conferences passed. So I know like they're 2017 AAPA conferences up for you to watch.  There are volunteer opportunities for you as well. So it sounds like anywhere you are in the pathologist assistant process, whether you're just someone looking into it, you wanna know more about it, or if you're already a student or practicing PA, Pathesis definitely has a lot of information for you. Yeah. All right, so if you're interested in becoming a PA, definitely start there. For show. For show. All right, folks, thank you for watching. Please consider liking the video and subscribing to my channel. And I'll see you in the next one.


Hey everybody, welcome back to magic orthodoxy. My name is David and this is a deck review Hey today, we're gonna look at the star deck from a lunar saloon. Alright, so what is the star deck?  You can visit them at lunar saloon.com They are a Minneapolis based creative studio and it's owned by Alex and Meg Grendling The front of the tuck case is all done in this black and silver coloring It's kind of as if you would have immersed yourself into the elements of a classic science fiction movie It's very imaginative and very witty across the front It says lunar saloon presents the star deck and then it has a couple of different star Names cluster names and then you can see the four of hips the Spade heart diamond and club right there in the center as well It does say 52 cards over on the left and first edition on the right one side of the tuck case says Tara 2300 and the other side says Luna 2300 the bottom has some ad copy about lunar saloon and the top simply just has the Pips on the back design is a little different It has a little description about the deck and then it says aid the effort impose the effort Monetize the effort repel the effort and then it says lunar saloon. Alright, so if you look inside the tongue flap There's two different Greek phrases one says add infinitum which means again and again forever and the other one says at Ulta Which means and beyond so if you put them together It means to infinity and beyond that is pretty much it for the tuck case Let's take a look at these cards these cards come printed from the United States playing card company And they are done on a casino grade stock They do have a modern cut and air cushion and boss and if you'd like to learn more about stock cut or finish You can click the link below in the description A lot of people always ask me how these cards feel and handle that's thing I can do is measure them with the caliper and give you an idea how they would compare against other decks Maybe that you've held before or own before ten of these in the caliper come to 3.01 3.01 is the same as the crown deck that bicycle printed the dynasty green edition that expert put out the miscellaneous goods deck and the jet-setter premiere deck the back design is gray and black and it has a normal thick poker border The card back displays an elegant pattern Suggestive of technology and various star maps with this deck will get two very original descriptor cards both advertisement cards one of them is kind of an ad card about the 357 different Kickstarter backers who helped make the deck possible and then the other card Describes what each spade suit means so all the suits represent a core science fiction troupe So you have an evil mega corporation. You have space marines You have robots and of course you have aliens with this deck We get two original jokers that depict kind of like a retro looking laser gun Kind of looks like it's from the 50s and it has the flag popping out of the barrel with the words pew pew pew Your ace of spades is very alien very robotic very futuristic looking It does say one-on-one at the top and then subject to the United Sea of Tranquility law Underneath that it says made by lunar saloon in association with diamond core court cards are a custom design court card And they display various sci-fi characters in keeping with each suits theme All right, so just look through all the different suits just to give you an idea of what they look like the spade pips Proxima bees native population the alien subterranean existence earn them the spades moniker the hearts are an advanced robot Population they aid earth's various civilian and military factions the clubs are earth's most decorated combat unit They were the first to touch down on Proxima bee and the diamond core are currently profiting from a lucrative arms market And they are diversifying into a neutral resource commodities All right, so that is my review of the star deck from a lunar saloon I got my deck from a rare playing cards comm and I'd like to thank rare playing cards comm for allowing me to Have this deck so that I could do the review for you you can find all of your Favorite decks including this one at rare playing cards comm and you can visit the link below in the description. Thanks. Bye


Is it time to put a 3 wood back in the bag? Is the Mizuno STG fairway wood a fairway finder? And am I about to change my mind that currently suggests 3 woods are just good at collecting cobwebs? I have to admit this new line up of fairway woods has asked that question since I tried and loved the new STG 5 wood. So the focus of this video is really trying to identify whether or not we should be considering putting a 3 wood back in the bag and if so why? I'm going to start off with data on Trackman up here at Holywell Golf Club and there's key parameters that I'm looking for. Obviously one is carry distance but then I want to see what separates them in terms of spin and what separates them in terms of launch. Then I'm going to be out on the golf course. We're going to see if the data is relayed out on the golf course in terms of its performance the same and then I want to come up with a conclusion on whether or not there is justifiable reason to either put 3 wood and 5 wood in the bag or perhaps one and not the other. Right some feedback off the golf course first of all am I seeing what I've seen in terms of dry ball data? The answer is probably yes but there are some variables that would concern me and I'll talk about those in a bit. I've hit quite a few tee shots off this one tee box here and you'll see there's some variables in the ball flights and I'm not necessarily going to point out which club is which right now but I can tell you that it surprised me a little. So at the start of the video the idea was to consider the possibility of putting a 3 wood back in the bag because of how well this 5 wood had performed from Mizuno. What I'm finding is I've still got exactly the same issues and it's not about the product it's more about me I would much prefer to see more lofted address and that's down to a confidence thing and I still think that that greater loft is giving me more variety and confidence and I'm seeing a very much a one-dimensional shot out on the golf course from the 3 wood. It's not a bad shot but it's one-dimensional in my book it's a very penetrating flight it's piercing it's going to work really well in windy conditions I'm still not sure that it's doing as much as the 5 wood for me personally but then there is another thing that I want to consider. The other big deal for me about having sort of matching fairway woods is that they look the same sounds a real obvious statement but first of all they've got a real good look for me they're fairly compact I would say in the way fairway woods have gone in recent years it's more of a classical look gloss finish look superb at address but I think switching from one to the other often if you've got different makes is a tendency to say oh my 3 wood is my favourite club and that then means that when you pick up your 5 wood if it looks a bit different then that becomes not your favourite club and confidence might dip a little. These two apart from that visible loft addition of loft in the 5 wood are virtually identical at address so for me that confidence if you've got confidence in one the likelihood is that that will pass through to both clubs and that can only be a real positive. Now there's one additional thing that I just want to mention and that is the key to having adjustability in your fairway woods and your hybrids and that's a relevant of brand and the reason I say that is because this is a great example of where for me that 3 wood is probably lofted just a little bit strong I'm not getting the ball fight that I would really like and there's an argument to say that the 5 wood is the opposite just flighting it just maybe just a tad too high and by either adding loft to one or lowering the loft in the 5 wood which is what I'm about to try and do then obviously we can make that kind of difference and I think that's key to all kinds of things gaping in your bag but for me it's more of a desired ball flight and something that suits my eye I've got a little bit of a shorter shaft in the 5 wood and that's why I would prefer to deal off this just a tad and we'll see what that does and that is my perfect ball flight so my findings that I said were surprised me a little bit out on the golf course was perhaps the inconsistency of the 3 wood in my hands and my inability to get it to perform inconsistently and in the dry ball data which we're going to have a look at now what we've seen was not a huge difference perhaps ones that you would expect but if you look at the carry distance only five yards of carry difference spin number was lower with the 3 wood than the 5 I did expect a considerable difference in the terms of the peak height and that comes from the difference in a launch angle and again the 5 wood being that much higher and launching that much higher so out on the golf course I've pretty much seen exactly that but maybe the ball flight on a 3 wood was even lower than what I was achieving indoor and like I said there was an inconsistency with it I said at the beginning of the video about you know again keep referencing this should the 3 wood come back into people's bags and I can only talk for mine and for me I'm still leaning towards the flexibility the variety that the 5 wood offers and even just not in that one degree down I said to you about how it becomes a perfect ball flight for me and then I so much so I hit a second shot off that same tee buck it's almost identical in a ball flight and that kind of thing just breeds confidence we haven't tried them out of the rough and I just don't like a 3 without the rough where I think a 5 wood is a club that you can sort of attempt to do that in sort of the semi rough so again I've done a number of videos like I said where I've been pushing people to sort of move away from a 3 wood and just question how many times per round you actually use it and for me they're a club that gathers cobwebs and it's why I've removed it from the bag and whilst this is a great example of a good 3 wood it's certainly not one that would make its way into my bag whereas the 5 wood is exactly that so this line up from Mizuno has been sort of geared towards I wouldn't say better players but faster swing speeds and I found that to be an issue with the driver for me and I didn't get the best performance out of it but I will say with the 5 woods complete opposite very playable I think very forgiving not the low spin model in my hands that is suggested from Mizuno and like I said overall a real good line up of fairy woods but for me the bigger picture it's 5 wood all day long over the 3 wood and I would like to know what are your thoughts do you agree with that or are you now slowly moving over as many golfers are into 5 woods 7 woods and such like the more lofted clubs in the bag right as ever thanks for watching a little bit dull here at Hollywood in superb condition we're playing plenty of golf and I hope you are too and thanks for watching I'll see you soon


I think it's spontaneous drills. That's the only way to get to the truth of it, is can you immediately react with the name technique on the day when you're out there, if you've done thousands of reps coming out with name techniques, you should be in a better place than you are if you're on the mat doing two man sets, which is just coordination.


In this section, I am going to tell you how to calculate the expected value of rate of return or the mean of the expected returns using Microsoft Excel. So, you will have to follow certain steps. So, firstly, you need to get the data. What do you need in the data? Two types of information. What are the expected returns? And what are their respective probabilities? What are the chances of occurrence? For example, if you understand that your stock will give 30% return in December. What is the chance of that? What is the probability of getting 30% return? Is it 10% or 20%? And how will this go? Again, the overall economic conditions, the conditions of that particular company, the financial experts on that basis, they calculate the probabilities and define them. So, this is the chance of getting this particular return. So, what do you have to do? You need two types of data, the probability and the expected returns of a certain stock in different periods of time. What are the expected returns and what are the corresponding probabilities? You need to get these two information. After that, you need to multiply the value of the return with the corresponding probability value. So, you need to get the column and multiply it. Then, you need to add up the value of your sum. That will be your mean. So, the mean of the expected returns will be obtained by simply adding all the probabilities multiplied by their respective corresponding returns. How will this happen? I am just going to take you to the excel sheet where I have entered this data to show you how it will work. And here we go. You can see that we have the economy and its three forms written in this column. Then, I have taken the rate of return and I have taken two companies here. For example, one company's name is RISCO. The other company's name is GENCO. And in the three possible weak, strong and normal situations of the economy, the returns of RISCO are written here. What are the returns of GENCO? The expected returns are written here. And what is the probability of getting all these returns? You can see that in the last column. So, this is 0.2, 0.6, 0.2 for all the three times. Now, what you have to do? First of all, you have to take out the mean. So, how will the mean come out? How will the expected value of the rate of return come out? For that, I have taken the rate of return from here.  So, I have not written any mathematical formula yet. I have just copied this information from this column and this column to this particular column. After that, I have written a formula. As you can see here, I have multiplied the return with the corresponding probability in this column. Basically, you can see the formula bar here. I have multiplied C5 from D5. I have multiplied minus 10% with 0.2. So, I have got this minus 0.02. Similarly, I have done this with two more values. And then I have summed it at the end. So, if you get an excel, then it is a very good thing. If you do not get an excel, then you simply have to write an equal sign. You have to sum it up. And you have to tell it the range of these three values. So, it will give you the value. It will collect them. So, when we collected them, we got 0.1. So, 0.1 is the mean of the expected rate of return. The three rates of return, what is their expected value? That is, what is their mean? That is, what is their average? They will give you 0.1. Now, if we convert this to percentage, if we give it 100, then you will get 10%. So, this means that your mean expected rate of return, that is, 10%, I have given you this here. Fine. So, when we remove the mean, the mean is not the only thing that we should know. We should also know that what is the fluctuation in this and how much it can be. And to estimate that thing, we also need standard deviation apart from the mean. So, now we will learn in the next section what is the meaning of standard deviation and how we will calculate it. Expected rate of returns. Take this.


Good morning. I'm Jay Fidel. This is Global Connections today. We have a wonderful day in store for us. And first up is a VIP from Belgium, from Brussels, I assume, Henri van Tegen, who is a Consul General in LA for the Kingdom of Brussels. Belgium. Belgium. I'm sorry, Kingdom of Belgium. And welcome to the show, Henri. Thank you. Thank you very much for inviting me. I am very honored to address to the Hawaiian Hodeans and I hope that it will generate some sympathy among the people for Belgium. Belgium is the country. Brussels is the city. Yes, thank you. It's a capital city. And Brussels is very famous, actually more famous than Belgium because it's the seat of international organization like NATO, North Atlantic Treaty Organization, which is the large alliance between European countries, Canada and United States of America. And also the seat of the European institutions. So we can say that it's the capital of the European Union. And it was a commercial capital for a long time, don't you think? Yes, yes, yes. Actually, from the Middle Age, Belgium was a crossing point for different civilization. And we have a city called Bruges, 65 miles from Brussels, northward from Brussels. And this city was in the 10th, 11th, 12th century, a huge economic crossing point. And we can say that if we have to compare that with the situation of today, Bruges in the 10th, 11th century was the New York Stock Exchange of the world. Now it's an absolutely beautiful town. It's so beautiful. It's one of the most beautiful cities in all of Europe. So I shouldn't say city, it's really a town. If you ever get a chance to go to Bruges or Bruga in Flemish, you must go. Speaking of which, Flemish is your second language. What is that? Well, actually in my situation, it is my first native language. And then I studied in French. I am bilingual for Flemish language that is spoken by 60% of the population in Belgium. 60%. 60%. Northward of Belgium. It's a northern part called Flanders. Also a very famous historic name, Flanders Fields. The poem in First World War, Flanders Field is actually in Belgium. And the southern part of Belgium with the Ardennes and a city that is also very well known in the United States, Bastogne. There the people speak French. Very interesting place. I've been there and I certainly enjoyed it and I felt that history all around me. Unfortunately in the 20th century, Belgium was kind of a target in both world wars and took a lot of damage and fatality. Can you talk about that a little? Yes, of course. Actually, when we became an independent state in 1830, well the name of Belgium exists since Julius Caesar. He mentioned the Belgian tribes at this time, at the time of Christ actually in history. But we have not an independent country up to 1830. And in 1830 all the European powers, France, Germany, Austria and of course the British Empire, they decided to accept a new country called Belgium. At the condition it would remain neutral. It would not join the Nile Islands and it would be independent from all the different countries without influence of these countries inside. It gave us a large freedom, especially an economic freedom because we could develop our economy without influence of Germany or France and we were extremely successful at that time in the first years of capitalism, the industrialist revolution. Belgium was actually the second country to follow the British Empire and England at that time. It makes you progressive, doesn't it? Absolutely, absolutely. But then this neutrality was indeed respected by our neighbors up to 1914. And in 1914 at the beginning of the First World War, the Germans wanted to attack France. And the best way to attack France is pass through a flat country, a flat country where you can dispose of your army wherever you want and without that much resistance because Belgium is still a small country. We had a great army, fantastic private soldiers, but still facing the German army it was very difficult to resist. We had to withdraw and the battlefields was on our territory because the French on the other side they entered into Belgium and they faced the German army. They had also to withdraw up to the battle of the Marne River in September 1914. Oh yes, wasn't that where the French came in taxi cabs? Correct, from Paris, absolutely. Absolutely, they had reinforcement from the Paris garrison that was sent to the front line on the Marne River by the taxis. It didn't work. Well yes, because the Germans were stopped. The Germans were stopped. And that's why actually in the Second World War as well we had battlefields in Belgium because we are a very, very usable country, usable battlefield between France and Germany and that's a bit the way that we could solve the problem is to create the European community at the first time and know the European Union so that today a war between France, Germany or England even with Brexit is unthinkable. Mutual defence. Yes, we are all together and we have a single economy, a single free trade area you can export to the different countries without any obstacles. There is total freedom of moving for the people. They can move from Belgium to Italy or from no borders inside the territory of the European Union. Very important to Belgium. Absolutely. In Belgium it's actually a beneficiary, at least as much as it is a contributor in terms of mutual defence. True, true, true. And then we have near this great family of European countries. We have NATO that binds us with the United States and Canada and that is very important also for our security because the European Union is not at the primary defence organisation but it's an organisation that wants to promote peace and collaboration and exchange of IDs in between the member states and of course it pays us true, it passes through economy. And Brussels is the capital of the EU, isn't it? Yes, because the institutions are seated in Brussels. That's why when president of the United States applied to Europe, its first stop is always Brussels. Not because of Belgium but because of the international institutions that are setting up in Belgium. All the management, all the staff, it's all in Brussels. Yes, it's all in Brussels. You get to, as a consul general, do you get to engage with the EU and NATO at all? NATO a bit less because this is really the business of the embassy but as the European Union is an economic organisation, we have in all the place where we have consul general gathering of the EU consul general of EU ambassadors when it's for small country only an embassy. Every month we have a kind of coordination to exchange view, to exchange numbers of economy and to see how we can improve the relations with the host country. You know all of Europe has a problem with migrants these days and it's a sort of two phase problem. One is they come in for one reason, one rule or another and they settle in various places for various reasons. And the second problem is that maybe they don't fit so well in some countries and then you have a right wing kind of reaction to that. We know from many shows that that has happened in a number of countries in Europe happening in Brussels in Belgium. Well yes, like everywhere else like in Germany, like in France, like in Italy these last days and also like in Greece because Greece is on the borderline with the migrants. But we have to make a difference between refugees and economic migrants. The refugees of course have a right to be protected and it is internationally agreed by treaties that we have to protect civilians fleeing their countries because of war, civil war or international war. So this is something that we are facing now with the civil war in Syria, instability in Iraq and Middle East is actually our backyard because when you have the Mediterranean Sea we have a backyard that is the Middle East. It's very close from Europe and you have in between a kind of buffer state that is Turkey and Turkey is very important in accepting and the first place refugees from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. It's all connected. It's all connected. But then you cross the border between Turkey and Bulgaria or Greece and then you are indeed in the European Union. Or you cross the Mediterranean from Libya by boat and then you are in the European Union. These my economic migrants, the second class of migrants, I would say there are procedures to integrate them and to facilitate them in the labor market. But actually they have no per se, they have no right to enter in the European Union. We try to find jobs for them. Refugees are a bit different than economic migrants. The refugees we are bound to accept them to protect them. The economic migrants, well they are processed but if they are showing up at your border you have to find a solution for them and of course sometimes they are repatriate in their own country, their home country because well they don't fulfill the conditions to be accepted. Yeah and this has been happening for a while. I mean you know we learned about it only a few years ago with all the great numbers of migrants but in fact there's been settlement all over Europe including the UK by various Muslim groups and African groups you know that were seeking a better life and they're there. They're part of the firmament now. So recently you had a, I hate to ask about this because I know it must be painful, you had a terror attack in Brussels airport two years ago. You know what was the fall out of that? What was the reaction of the Belgian people about that? Well the first reaction of the Belgian people was to share sorrow and to mourn the victims and the families of the victims. Actually there was no violent reaction toward one or another community. There was just a very sad reaction but our view against terrorism is also passing through a response via police and justice corporations among the European countries. Among the all the different European countries we have to share information between the police service, between justice, the judiciary, must be in contact and we have to fight the terrorist by legal issues, in a legal point of view. Which is what you did in the case of the Brussels attack. Correct, correct, correct. Actually they were all arrested, of course those who blow up, they were killed in the terrorist attack but all the networks were arrested and we catch them up or in France or in Germany because they are networked, they have networks and through this police and justice cooperation we can crack down their networks and the attack happened in May 2016, actually since May 2016 we do not have any more incidents. Exactly, yeah. Yeah and then in France the same and in Germany the same. I think that we reinforce a lot through the mechanism of the European Union. We reinforce the police and justice cooperation in order to have the best share of information before it happens. Yeah, oh so much better, Interpol. Yeah, so one of the things I look at the. Well actually Interpol is international, worldwide, we have no Europol and Eurojust. Ah, sorry, yes, okay, okay, that's better yet. Because it's a limited number of nations. Absolutely. Comparing notes on a closer basis. Exactly, yeah. I looked at the newspaper this morning and saw that there was a parade in a secondary city in Belgium involving a float that was arguably, well more than arguably, it was anti-Semitic. But you pointed out to me before the show that this was not a surprise because that parade in that city has a custom. Can you talk about it? Well it's the Carnival. Carnival is a festival that is happening in different cities in Belgium. Most of the time it's only a festival that is for the people but here there is a parade and this parade is mocking almost everything. The one in a year on that day, it's called also in Germany the full day or the full Tuesday. It's in Belgium is Carnival and in this city they mock everything. They mock the government, they mock the police, they mock the migrants, they mock also some communities and unfortunately because it was very bad taste and of course it was considered as offensive for a community but I'm sure that it was not meant to be anti-Semitic. It was just meant to have a kind of mockery of different traditions. For all communities it is bad taste and I think it will change because this year it was indeed broadcast worldwide this parade and we had a lot of reactions and I think next year it will be more cool and less offensive. That's Henri van Tegen. Did I say that right? Yeah, yeah, perfect. He's the Council General of the Kingdom of Belgium in Los Angeles and we come back, we'll take a look at the connection between Los Angeles and Hawaii in terms of the Belgian Council General and we'll look at how Belgium feels about things in the United States. We'll be right back. Aloha, I'm Cynthia Sinclair and I'm Tim Apachella. We are hosts here at Think Tech Hawaii, a digital media company serving the people of Hawaii. We provide a video platform for citizen journalists to raise public awareness in Hawaii. We are a Hawaii non-profit that depends on the generosity of its supporters to keep on going. We'd be grateful if you go to ThinkTechHawaii.com and make a donation to support us now. Thanks so much. Thanks so much. Hey, Aloha. My name is Andrew Lanning. I'm the host of Security Matters Hawaii airing every Wednesday here on Think Tech Hawaii, live from the studios. I'll bring you guests, I'll bring you information about the things in security that matter to keeping you safe, your co-workers safe, your family safe, to keep our community safe. We want to teach you about those things in our industry that may be a little outside of your experience. So please join me because security matters. Aloha. Okay, we're back. We're live. We're honored to have the Council General of the Kingdom of Belgium that is Henri van Tegen here with us in the studio this morning on a given Wednesday. Henri, a kingdom.  It's a kingdom? Who's the king? How does that work? Well, when we got our independence gained by a revolution against the Dutch, we created a state and all the powers, the European powers at that time, the world powers, British Empire, France, Germany, they accepted the Belgian independence. Out of one condition, it would be a kingdom. And we said, we were really searching for a candidate and the best candidate was Leopold of Saxe-Coburgotta. And then he was elected by Congress as king of the Belgians. It's not king of Belgium. He's not the landlord of the country. He's the first citizen of the Belgian community. He's king of the Belgians. Of course, you have a legislature as well, a parliament. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's comparable to the British system. Oh, speaking of which, Brexit. Can I get your thoughts on Brexit? You don't have to give me the official position, but let me know what you think. Well, I think that we feel that is a very sad issue, the Brexit, because the European Union was stronger with the Brits inside. No, the population in the United Kingdom has decided to leave the European Union. And we are negotiating with them the terms and condition to live for living this European Union. Unfortunately, it seems that on the side of the British government, there is still some uncertainty on the conditions. We on the European side, we are very clear and we have put on the table a proposal that has been rejected two times by the British Parliament. But it's supported by the British government. Theresa May has proposed this treaty with the European Union of association. They won't be a full member, but they would be associated. And unfortunately, the British House of Commons has rejected the proposal two times, and we hope that there will be maybe some more education about the treaty so that the people would accept it and make some pressure on the parliament to agree with the treaty. If they leave without treaty with the European Union, it will be something terrible, terrible, because then it will be a situation of hard Brexit. With the treaty, it would be a soft Brexit. Without treaty, it would be hard Brexit. And then we will be in the situation that all the ties that are existing with the UK and the continent would be cut. That would be tragic. Absolutely, tragedy indeed. It seems that in England, that's what the press reports, that there are so many different tendencies and so many different trends in the parliament, even in the political parties, Labour Party, Conservative parties, that is very difficult for them to make a common position towards the EU proposal. But at the same time, what is a good news is that the European Union remains very close from each other, and we have a common position for the 27 member states remaining in the European Union. So it was said when there was a referendum that the European Union might collapse and there might be other countries willing to leave. It is not the case. Those who are remaining want to work together and want to go forward and maybe to progress together. Oh, good, good. For my sake, I would prefer there be no Brexit at all. Wouldn't you? Well, a referendum is a referendum, you know. When the people decide something, you cannot go against the decision of the people. Although this time it was a very small majority. It was 52% or something like that for an issue that is so important than being a member of the European political family because it is an intergovernmental organisation where every government has its word to say. And then we come to a consensus and we can have a European rule, a European legislation, which is very important. But then you ask the people, even with 2% of majority, the people have decided it's a pity. I think there was a very difficult issue to explain to the people because the European Union is still very technocratic. There are a lot of positive things that are coming from the European Union. But it is very difficult to explain in simple terms to a people what are the advantages to be a member of the European Union. On the contrary, it's very easy to ask the people and at the end of the day it was almost the question that the Brits had to face. Do you feel more British or do you feel more European? And of course they feel very British. But the purpose of the European Union is not to create a new nation. Every single country will remain its own political organisation. There is France, there is Germany, there is Italy. They will remain independent countries. The European Union is not trying to merge everything in a new nation. The great Europeans were great Europeans because they were very deeply French, Germans, Belgian, Dutch or Italians. We do not want to erase the nationalities. The purpose is to, I would say to harmonise the policies to have a common view on certain issues. A common view is very important because on certain issues we are stronger together. The point of view of France or of Germany is very important. But when is a European common view that is agreed not only by France for its own or Germany for its own but by all European countries from the Atlantic, from Portugal to the Baltic Sea to Finland, all together we have a common position then we have a lot of weight on the world's affairs. You know it's funny that this Brexit thing, I mean I don't think it was intended this way, but the Brexit thing makes the EU stronger in a funny way. In the cohesion between the remaining countries indeed. How about the economics though? Does it make it stronger in terms of the economics? How is Europe, the EU, how is Belgium doing on the economic side? Well for the time being there is a growth in Belgium and all the indicators are in green. So we have a very flourishing economy. There are some other countries in the European Union that are in more difficult situation but when it comes to the European Union we can help each other. This is a question also of solidarity and the great achievement of the European Union is this solidarity among the European countries. As we told before there was two world wars started in Europe. No it's impossible to imagine that there would be a war among these countries first of all and we have we share so much solidarity and we have the same economy because it's becoming the European economy. For instance for foreign trade all the different member states of the European Union have transferred their sovereignty to negotiate trade agreements with third parties, third country, to the Commission. So for the European countries there is no possibility to agree on a free trade area with India or with China without passing through the European Union. So it's very good. So there is the European Union represents all the member states for foreign trade issues and we can negotiate free trade agreement with giants like United States, like Canada, like China on equality and we can put what we expect from free trade. It means growth and welfare for the people on the table as well as the economic point of view and aspect of the treaty. Does that include gas? Does it include LNG? We had a show last week about gas coming from Russia in a new pipeline that bypasses Ukraine. It comes directly to Germany and that you know countries charge each other for the passage of gas. Correct. How does that fit? Well this is not foreign trade this is energy policy and for the energy policy there is no commonsense position from the European Union. So for this policy Germany is suffering to have its supplier for energy. There is no common policy in energy. We try to shape it and step by step we are in a good way to have this common policy, one more common policy, but it's indeed a part of free trade agreements. Energy policy can be included in free trade agreements with third countries and so it's indeed something that we can put forward and where we have to make some progress indeed. But again the problem is that you know it would be very easy to unify Europe with Napoleon but it is not the purpose. The purpose is to have all the people and all the government and all the state treated equally and then having a coordination on their policy if possible an integration of their policy. You know it's wonderful to hear you say that. We live in a time when they're sort of you have not only democracy in individual countries growing democracy in individual countries you have a kind of democracy among the countries where they collaborate, cooperate, talk to each other. This is a phenomenal thing in our lifetimes Henri. But I wonder as time goes by what's the trend you think if we look again in a hundred years we should only be here in a hundred years. If you think if you look again in a hundred years you think that that Europe the EU will be closer as a unified political entity is it possible? I think so. You know even in the education of a child you have phases when it goes back and then it goes forward and then it goes back. It's some kind of process that takes time and we started with the European Union 75 years ago and 70 years ago we were at war with each other. So that's again we expect to have everything immediately but politics takes time and I think that within 100 years we will face a totally different world first of all and then the European people and I hope so that the British they might they might change their mind about membership of the European Union and come back it will take time always but it will be the case I hope that we have a more coherent and a more solidarity bit among the nations and inside the European Union. Here, here. Thank you. So I promised that we would talk about Belgium's relationship with Hawaii and tell you that Shamanad University St. Louis was created by by an order of of briars and brothers from Belgium that father Damien in Kalapapa with the leprosy community there he was Belgium Belgium and we have a certain history most of the 19th century with Belgium right now today there are cultural elements in this community that are clearly Belgian so your jurisdiction includes Los Angeles I guess the west coast and also Hawaii what do you see the relationship as today between Belgium and Hawaii? Well first of all the relation started very early after the creation of the Kingdom of Belgium we started in 1830 and in 1842 we had already diplomatic relations with the Kingdom of Hawaii years later yeah yeah yeah we had relations with the Kingdom of Hawaii and from them we have a representative in Hawaii for the Kingdom of Belgium and honorary council these days is Mr. Jeff Law Honorable Jeff Law is representing Belgium here and we are extremely positive toward Hawaii first of all the reputation of these islands is the paradise so everybody loves even the name of Hawaii and then economically we have some important exchanges but also culturally and I think that in the education field we had some missionaries coming from Belgium and establishing some institution in Hawaii and secondly we had also a father Damien who become a saint 10 years ago yes 10 years ago he's a saint so he is worshipped in in Hawaii but also in Belgium is a very famous figure for the Belgians and he helped in Molokai all the leprosy hillan people and nobody wanted to go to Molokai and he said okay I will go for a few years he was a saint he remained he remained 16 years helping the people there and he is still very famous we have every year in Belgium Father Damien Week was that right yes for collection of money funding for the help for the leprosy and handicapped people it's a direct connection with Hawaii yeah well I offered that there's a strain in the Belgian culture that is giving and charitable alamosanary otherwise these people would not have come here to build true educational and health institutions the way they did yeah absolutely and by the way in 1881 I think King Kallahua from Hawaii he traveled to Europe and he spent one week in Brussels and he was received by our king at that time Leopold II with parties and a lot of fun and he received the highest decoration of the Belgian kingdom and I think that my king received the highest decoration of the Hawaiian kingdom this was mutual exchanges and we are trying to find out for some pieces that are no in display at Royal Palace if they are coming from Belgium or not probably they are coming from Belgium my feeling is that they are Belgians some decoration objects well thank you Henry thank you for coming down I hope you come down again I hope you come again when you come to Hawaii and I want to thank Jeff Lau for setting this interview up this has been great important to us for sure thank you Henry aloha hello mahalo thank you thank you so much