Welcome, I welcome you all to this lecture in the course Introduction to Paninian Grammar. So far we have been studying the features of the meta language of Panini and Panini's grammar. We have studied three important features of the meta language and in the process we started studying the concept of it the marker and then we went deep into the text of Ashtadhyayi and we studied all the sutras that define the term ith. This is a small section at the beginning of the third part of the first adhyayi to be precise from 132 to 138 the ith saudhna is defined and we studied each and every sutra in some detail and we looked at some examples which are derived by the grammatical process and how ith saudhna plays a technical important role in this derivation by triggering a particular kind of grammatical operation. Now, after having studied the sutras which define ith it is important for us to also study certain important functions of these markers the ith sounds and various operations that they trigger. So, in this lecture the broad theme that we are studying is the markers in the meta language of Paninian grammar and most importantly the specific theme that we study here in this lecture is markers and their functions the ith sounds and their functions. So, to recap these are the eight sutras these are the sutras which define the ith saudhna. On this slide there are six sutras which assign the term ith to the consonants and then there is one more sutra upadeshe ajanunasika ith which assigns the term ith to the vowels. These six sutras on the slide are halandhyam na vivaktau tasmaha these two assign the term ith to the consonants in the final position in the initial enunciation and the rest adhiri itudavaha sapratya yasya chutu and lasakavata dhite assign the technical term to the elements occurring in the initial position out of which sapratya yasya chutu and lasakavata dhite they assign the term ith to the initial consonant mentioned in the sutra if it occurs as part of apratya yasya whereas adhiri itudavaha assigns the term ith to three clusters e, 2 and 2 which appear at the beginning of a verbal root part of the verbal list. Now, after having studied these sutras in details together with the examples let us look at certain functions of the markers and on this slide are noted some seven functions first prescription of addition of suffixes second specification of the position of an element that is added specification of the position of a substitute that is the third one the fourth one is modification in the element to which a suffix is added fifth is negation of certain modifications of an element sixth is accent marks and seventh is meaning change all these are indeed the functions of markers and in this lecture we shall concentrate on the first two namely the prescription of addition of suffixes and the specification of the position of an element that is added and we shall study the next five functions in the next lectures. So, let us concentrate on the first function enumerated on the earlier slide that is prescription of addition of certain sets of suffixes here we refer to the dhatupatha the list of verbal roots we have shown you what dhatupatha is in the earlier earliest lectures. Now, this list of verbal roots which can also be called as the lexical items these are tagged with the markers or the it sounds to indicate the set of suffixes that are added after them in case of some verbal roots also adding a shade of the meaning in the list of verbal roots the verbal roots are all stated to end in a vowel when in the grammatical derivation they become consonant ending and are also generally referred to as consonant ending in the dictionaries and so on. For example, a dha together with two vowels a and a is mentioned in the list of verbal roots dhatupatha whereas in the grammatical derivation it becomes a ending in consonant ending and is also referred to in the dictionaries etc in consonant ending fashion like this never mentioned like this. But in the dhatupatha this root is mentioned in this format a dha having two vowels in it. Now, the vowel that is coming at the end of this root is termed it by 1, 3, 2. So, this is an ith vowel occurring at the end. This ith vowel is further assigned three properties of accents udhath, anudhath and svaritha what they stand for we shall study when we look at the process of speech production in detail. Right now we should note that these three which are the phonetic features they are used only as metalinguistic device. So, these markers are not to be pronounced in these fashions they are just stated to be like that in the metalinguistic fashion as metalinguistic device and that is not they are not actually implemented. So, no verbal root is actually uttered or written with the accent mark nor does this accent have any correspondence with the accent the verbal root has in the object language. So, it should be clear now that this udhath, anudhath and svaritha is purely a metalinguistic device and has got no relation whatsoever with the accent the verbal root has in the object language. Now, let us look at the details. So, a verbal root is then qualified as udhathet or anudhathet or svarithet. Udhathet means a verbal root having udhath accent as ith. Anudhathet means a verbal root having anudhath accent as ith and svarithet would mean a verbal root having svaritha accent as ith. Let us take examples. So, now what happens to a verbal root which is udhathet which means a verbal root which has udhath as ith. So, after an udhathet verbal root the suffixes termed as parasmaipada or edit by the rule 1378. So, for example, the verbal root patha over here which is listed in the dhathu patha as bowel ending patha ends in a. Actually it is path when you take it in the grammatical derivation or when you list it down in the dictionaries you mention it like this and not like this. But in the dhathu patha it is mentioned like this with a at the end term to be termed as ith. And then it is also assigned the phonetic property of udhath by convention and so this will be called udhathet. And then you add the parasmaipada set of suffixes after this patha which are this tip, ship and mip etc. So, here are the forms we have already seen these forms in the earlier lecture pathati, pathata, pathanti, pathasi, pathata, pathata, pathami, pathavaha, pathamaha. These are the forms having parasmaipada endings. These are added after a verbal root. Now, how do you decide whether these set of suffixes are to be added after patha or not? They will be that will be decided on the basis of the accent, conventional accent assigned to this ith saudhnya. So, this is udhathet and that is what triggers the addition of these suffixes. So, these suffixes are to be added after only those roots which have this feature, namely udhathet. Let us look at the next example of anudhathet. So, a verbal root which has an ith vowel also another phonetic property of anudhath then the root is called anudhathet and after an anudhathet verbal root the suffixes termed atmanipada are added by the sutra 1313 namely anudhathangita atmanipadam. So, let us take the example of etha once again etha which is listed in the dhatupatha as a vowel ending element etha. But when you start the grammatical process it is only etha ending in a consonant. In the dictionaries it will be mentioned as etha ending in a consonant. In the dhatupatha however it is mentioned as vowel ending for obvious reasons this a is termed as ith and it is also assigned the phonetic property of anudhathet and now this anudhathet verbal root will get the atmanipada set of suffixes namely the atamjha and so on. So, you get the form this is what you get and these forms having the atmanipada endings they are triggered because of this a being called an anudhathet. So, this anudhathet triggers this addition. Now, let us look at the swarithet. So, a verbal root which has got the final vowel ith and also in addition assign the phonetic property of swarithet will be called swarithet. So, after a swarithet verbal root the suffixes termed atmanipada are added only if the fruit of the action denoted by the verbal root goes to the doer of the action. If this condition is satisfied then you add the atmanipada suffixes by the sutra 1372 for example, yajar ending in a vowel is listed in the dhatupata in this fashion. But when you take it in the grammatical derivation you have it consonant ending yaj. Similarly, in the dictionaries it is mentioned as yaj. So, yajar and yaj now the purpose is obvious this a at the end is termed ith by 132 and the property of swaritha is also assigned to it. So, this yajar now is termed swarithet, swarithet and then the atmanipada suffixes are added after yajar if this meaning condition is fulfilled. So, eventually after the verbal root yajar both sets of suffixes are added to indicate respective meaning. So, for example, you will add the parasmi for the ending and get the forms yajati, yajataha, yajanti, etc. and you will also get the atmanipada endings and add them to it and then you will get the forms yajate, yajate, yajante, etc. So, when you use the forms yajate, yajate, yajante they will indicate the difference in the meaning namely that this action of sacrificing has generated a fruit which goes to the doer of the sacrifice only then you will use yajate if the doer of the sacrifice is not getting the result of the sacrifice then you will say yajati then you will use the word yajati that is the difference between these two sets of suffixes with reference to certain kinds of verbal roots which are indicated which are differentiated by this property called swarithet. This is one of the important functions of the markers namely the prescription of addition of suffixes, certain kinds of suffixes. After having studied this function let us proceed further and look at the second function of the marker namely the specification of position of element and here we will look at the consonants. Consonants k, t and m at the n position are termed ith by 133 and consonants k and t at the initial position within a certain domain of pratyaya are also termed as ith by 138 and 137 respectively and the elements to which these consonants are attached are called kith, tith and also myth when we add the word add the sound m which is ith to this list. So, now the position of the element which is kith is the final addition the position of the element which is tith is the initial addition and the position of the element which is myth is immediately after the final vowel of that element that is the position that is specified by respective sutras this is how the markers function let us elaborate on this by citing sutras and taking concrete examples. So, let us first of all focus on k consonant being termed ith. So, the element to which k consonant is termed as marker or as ith will be called kith. Now that element which is called kith is added at the end of a particular element and this is stated by 1146 namely atyantav takitav. This sutra means an element which is tith is added at the initial position of the element to which it is added and an element which is kith is added at the final position of the element to which it is added. The domain of this sutra is the augment or agama and it is important to note here that agama becomes a part of the element to which it is added. So, it is stated in combination of the sixth case which here means of similar to what it means in the object language. Let us take an example where k is termed as ith. So, the sutra is ane muk 7.2.82 ane is 7 slash 1 of ane muk is 1 slash 1 of m in which k is ith and u is the stylistic use. Now, the meaning of this sutra is immediately before ane add ma as part of a stem that ends in short a. There are words that are continued in this sutra namely atah 6 slash 1 of at that is short a continues from 7 to 80 and angasya 6 slash 1 of ang which means a stem continues from 6 for 1. So, the meaning of this sutra once again is the following immediately before ane add ma as part of a stem that ends in short a. Now, here is an example ma as part of a stem that ends in short a that is what is stated. The question is where should ma be added and the answer given over here is that because muk is kith this ma is to be added at the end of the stem that ends in short a. So, you have an example over here where we take the verbal root yaj followed by the suffix a followed by another suffix ane. In this case now with reference to ane yaj and a is the stem or ange that is why it is put in square brackets. So, now in this case because this ange ends in short a ane muk would add ma as part of this ange but because it is kith now this ma will be added only at the end that is in this place and not before here no it is to be added only here and then you get the form yaj ma ane that is one who does the action of sacrificing that is yaj ma ane. So, we derive the word yaj ma ane in this way where ma is added at the end of the ange because it is kith. Now, let us look at the tith element. So, tith element is added at the beginning of the element by once again 1146 adhantau takithau and it means an element which is tith is added at the initial position of the element to which it is added and the element which is kith is added at the final position of the element to which it is added. Once again the domain of this sutra is the augment agama and therefore and because agama becomes a part of the element to which it is added. So, it is stated in combination of the sixth case the agama is stated in combination of the sixth case. Here is a concrete example lung, lung, lung is the set of suffixes which express aorist past tense. Lung is a technical name of a set of suffixes which expresses imperfect past tense and lung is the technical name of the set of suffixes which expresses the conditional mood. Now, at one slash one is that of at and which means a and this agama a is called tith because this t is ith by 133. So, now, there is another word udattaha which means udattah that is high stress. Now, this is the object language udattah we shall study what this means later on. Words continued in this sutra are angasyah six slash one of ang meaning a stem and this word is continued from 641. Now, the meaning of this sutra lung, lung, lung, lung, shawadudattah is the following. It means immediately before lung, lung and lung add a as part of the stem that is all it says. Now, the question is where should a be added and the answer given is because this a is tith because this a is tith it is to be added at the beginning of the stem. So, the meaning of this sutra is the following. Immediately before lung, lung and lung add a as part of the stem but the question is where should a be added should it be in the initial position or at the end position. But the answer is provided to us by the marker tith which is added to a originally it is udattah so tith is it. Now, because it is tith because this a is tith it is decided by 1146 that it is to be added at the beginning of this stem. So, for example, we are deriving apathath we start with patha and lung and now the question arises this is lung. So, immediately before lung there is this stem pat. Now, the sutra says add a to this stem where here at the beginning or at the end that is not specified but the marker tith specifies that this should be added before at the initial position and so now we get apat and then lung. Then lung is substituted by tith so we have apat plus tith then this tith is substituted by tith apat tith then there is an addition of a in between apat earth and finally we get the form apathath. The most important point to remember over here is a here is added in the initial position mainly because this has a marker tith this is the function of the marker tith to specify the position of this element a which is added to this pat and that position is the initial position. Let us look at the third example of the consonant ma being termed tith and that element being termed as myth. Now, the position that is specified for a myth element is immediately after the final vowel this is specified by 1147 that is mida chon tyad paraha. The meaning of this sutra is an element which is myth having ma asit is added after the final vowel of the element to which it is added. The domain of this sutra once again is an augment and augment or agama becomes a part of the element to which it is added so it is stated in combination of sixth case which means of. Let us take an example concrete example the sutra is trinaha m 7392 trinaha is 6 slash 1 of trinaha m is 1 slash 1 of m that is e now this m is having ma as it by 133 so this m now will be called myth and the real augment real meaning in the object language the augment is e and this ma is the marker it but now this will be called myth now where should we add this we have to add this to this trinaha should it be before or should it be after where what is the position that is not specified but now this marker ma will specify that the words continued in this sutra are sarvadhatuke 7 slash 1 of sarvadhatuke and we shall see what sarvadhatuke is later on piti we have already seen what this means piti is 7 slash 1 of pith having par as it and halli we also know what this is 7 slash 1 of hall so all these 3 words have the same case same number so they will be interrelated the verbal root used is traha whose stem is trinaha traha means hymsa or to kill or to slay so now let us look at the derivation process so we begin with trinaha we are in this at this stage trinaha plus t this t is nothing but tip per is a marker so this is pith now the meaning of the sutra is add hym that is e as part of the stem trinaha which is placed immediately before a sarvadhatuke suffix which begins with a consonant and which is pith that is which has per as it or a marker so here is trinaha stem as indicated by the brackets followed by a suffix t which is termed as sarvadhatuke this is also pith and this is also consonant beginning so immediately before a sarvadhatuke suffix which is consonant beginning and which has per as the marker we have trinaha stem so now 7392 has a scope of application and says that add hym to this trinaha where do we add hym that is the question which is answered by the marker myth since hym is myth it is added after the last vowel of the stem which is a after an a so in trinaha we have two vowels one is ru immediately after ta one is a immediately after an a so a is the last vowel in the stem and so this hym is to be added immediately after this a that is what is stated by mida chontya paraha and so you get this form this is the derivation process so you add e here after this a so trinaha then this gets substituted as trinaha then trinaha then trinaha dhi then trinaha dhi then trinaha dhi and finally trinaha dhi which means he or she or it slays this is the derivation process and here at this stage our sutra mida chontya paraha directs triggers the operation of addition of e in this position so the position of this e is specified by this marker me myth to summarize two functions of the markers were studied so far namely prescription of addition of suffixes to the verbal roots and specification of the position of an element added so it sounds that is markers are effectively used in panangian grammar to trigger the addition of certain set of suffixes after the verbal roots we have seen this and the they also indicate these markers also will indicate a particular meaning shared that is if the fruit of the action goes to the doer of the action or not in the process of substitution the position of an added element needs to be specified which is achieved by the use of the it sounds what next then so we shall study next the remaining functions of the ith markers namely the specification of the position of a substitute modification in the element to which a suffix is added negation of certain modifications of an element and accent and also meaning change thank you for your attention


I'm always happy to update on interest in culinary developments here in Jerusalem. I'm sitting at the moment in a place called Margo. This is a restaurant and wine bar that opened three days ago. This is literally an i3 we're sitting here. Unlike a lot of their wine bars, a couple of the wine bars at least that I've shown on this YouTube channel, this place is actually Kosher which is amazing. It's certified by Zohar. Zohar is kind of a independent cash-route certification organization that's attempting to break the rabbit's stranglehold on kosher certification in general. So not everyone will eat according to Zohar but we're big supporters of the initiative and we've just ordered. My wife and I've ordered a bottle of rosé. They have a little food menu where we've ordered some fish tacos as well and we're going to have enjoy a nice bit of wine. This place is located just off King George Street in downtown Jerusalem. Very nice ambiance so far. A little bit of music playing in the background and always great to see more nightlife opening here in the city.


For me, the master's degree was about having a little bit more autonomy and leverage and choosing what I want to do. So I decided to do a master's to fill out more of my computer science background to get a little bit more advanced course work, to network a little bit more. One of the great parts about the CSE master's program is there's such a wide breadth of classes that are available to meet requirements. There's dozens of courses that you can take across optics, across AI, across hardware, across optimization. And you can really pick and choose and tailor your program.  It's a master's program where it says, what opportunities do you want to take advantage of? So I was able to curate a set of classes to complement my computer engineering and hardware background in my undergrad with a little bit more of the theory and bridging that to some of the more high level concepts, like AI machine learning that I'll be using in my job coming up. Coming here, having multiple buildings, having a huge student base, initially could seem like you would get lost, but they make so many efforts to help you connect to create opportunities to connect outside of classes. It's definitely an inviting culture with a diverse enough student base that whatever you're looking for, you'll be able to find. To get to the point where I could have that job opportunity and feel like I'm prepared to be successful, there are two or three really important things. First, just the exposure you get at the University of Michigan through coaching services, through career services, through the career fair. University of Michigan is such a big name. It will bring small companies, big companies, just that breadth of industry and innovation that's coming to the University of Michigan. It gave them exactly what I needed. I think the most important thing for anyone considering a master's program is decide what are you trying to get out of it. If you have a purpose, you're going to be able to choose classes that are a lot more tailored to your interests and you'll be able to get a lot more out of the master's program if you make it your master's program.


I, Dr. Mrs. Preeti Sunil Joshi, Assistant Professor from Department of Humanities and Sciences, Balchan Institute of Technology, Solapur. Welcome you in the session of Physics, which is related with Introduction to Quantum Mechanics. Learning outcomes of this session are, by the end, students will be acquaint with the developments in classical and quantum mechanics, will identify wave particle behaviour of matter, students will be able to understand de Broglie hypothesis and learn different properties of matter waves. The contents include introduction, wave particle duality, de Broglie hypothesis and properties of matter waves. The aim of physics is to understand the natural phenomena around us. 19th century witnessed a rapid growth in physics. Newtonian mechanics was nearly perfected and Maxwell synthesized the field of electricity and magnetism into a single theory which permitted inclusion of optics into the framework of electromagnetic phenomena. Towards the end of 19th century, it was generally believed that all that to be discovered in nature was discovered and all the laws of nature were formulated. The Newtonian mechanics, Maxwell's electromagnetic theory and thermodynamics came to be known as classical mechanics. At about turn of 20th century, a number of fundamental discoveries were reported which could not be explained within the framework of the above classical theories of physics. The inadequacy of classical theories was noticed first when they were applied to explain the blackbody radiation that is emitted by a body hotter than its surroundings. To explain blackbody radiation, Max Planck put forward a revolutionary hypothesis that the molecules in a source emit energy not continuously but in small discrete packets which are called as CONTA. This was a radical departure from the classical theory and contrary to day to day experience. After that, Einstein made use of Planck's hypothesis that a quantum of radiation carries an energy h nu and successfully explained the photoelectric effect. Other experimental results also showed that classical concepts were entirely inadequate and one has to invoke the quantum concept to explain the behavior of atoms and subatomic particles. A new body of ideas based on Planck's work was developed and a new theory came to be known as quantum physics. So the objects or matter can either be particles or they can be waves. And so scientists have found that there is this duality.  So before we talk about we should identify what a particle is and what a wave is. They are both ways that we can transfer energy from one point to another. So that is a particle when energy transfer takes place from one point to another and in case of wave we can see that the wave continues to move back and forth. This is transferring energy through the medium and in this video we are going to talk about how particles have wave properties. But it will show you what is going on in the world of very small the world of quantum mechanics. So well we live in the world of classical mechanics, we live in a world where everything travels much less than the speed of light and the things are much larger than the size of an atom. But when things really get fast we have to adjust and use relativistic mechanics. And as things get really really very small we have to use quantum mechanics. So quantum physics explain the behavior of matter and radiation at the microscopic level and quantum mechanics is the study of mechanical systems whose dimensions are close to the atomic scale. The interactions between atoms are governed by quantum mechanics and so an understanding of quantum mechanics is must for understanding the science. Quantum mechanics does not explain how a quantum particle behaves. Students, now please pause the video and answer these multiple choice questions. Check for the correct answers. So we have seen that Einstein had shown that photons are not only waves but they are particles using the photoelectric effect and he even calculated the energy of photon. While De Broglie proposed that the matter is made up of waves and gave the formula where wavelength of matter is equal to Planck's constant divided by momentum.  So we know that the matter is both a particle and a wave. It has just like light, this wave particle duality. If we are dealing with matter as particle we call that classical mechanics or classical physics and if we are dealing with a wave then it is quantum mechanics. But how do we know just like light which kind of model should we use? It all comes down to scale. If we are dealing with the microscopic so this is everything that is even microscopic then it is going to be classical mechanics. But when we have to move down to the level of nanoscopic really small particles then we deal with matter as a wave. And then De Broglie wavelength tells us you know how much wavelength effect we are going to have. In 1924 Louis De Broglie extended the wave particle dualism of light to the material particles. He reasoned out that nature exhibits a great amount of symmetry. Therefore if a light wave can act as a wave sometimes and as a particle at other times then particles such as electrons also act as waves at times. This is known as De Broglie hypothesis. According to De Broglie hypothesis any moving particle is associated with a wave. The waves associated with particles are known as De Broglie waves or Miter waves. The wavelength lambda of matter waves associated with a particle moving with velocity v is inversely proportional to the magnitude of the momentum of the particle. Thus lambda is equal to H upon Mv. As photon travels with velocity c its momentum is given by p is equal to e upon c therefore p is equal to Hv upon c therefore momentum is equal to H upon lambda. Thus the wavelength and momentum p of a photon are related to each other through an expression lambda is equal to H upon p. By this equation number 3 De Broglie proposed that the relation between the momentum and the wavelength of a photon is universal one and it must be applied to photons and material particles as well. Though the quantities nu and lambda are pure properties and the quantities e and p are particle properties they are related to each other. By the equation number 4 which shows that wave and particle nature of a photon are interrelated to each other. Now let us consider a moving particle having mass m velocity v and momentum p then equation 5 that is p is equal to m into v and it must be associated with a wave of wavelength equation number 6 that is lambda is equal to H upon p. The waves associated with moving particles are called matter waves or De Broglie waves. The relation equation 7 that is lambda is equal to H upon Mv is called as De Broglie equation and the wavelength lambda is called as De Broglie wavelength. So the conclusions can be made from the equation lambda is equal to H upon Mv as when the velocity of the particle is 0 lambda is equal to infinity which means that matter waves are detectable only for moving particles. Wave behavior of micro particles will be significant whereas waves associated with the macro bodies can never be detected because lighter the particle smaller is mass and hence longer is the wavelength of matter waves that is associated with it. The smaller the velocity of the micro particle the longer is the wavelength of the matter waves associated with it. Now let us see De Broglie wavelength associated with an accelerated charged particle. If a charged particle such as electron is accelerated by a potential difference v then its kinetic energy is given by e into v which is equal to half Mv square therefore v is equal to root 2 e v by M then the electron wavelength is given by after simplification lambda is equal to H upon root 2 em into v. Now consider if a particle has kinetic energy Ke then kinetic energy is equal to half Mv square is equal to M square v square upon 2 into M so p square upon 2 M hence lambda is equal to H upon root 2 M multiplied by kinetic energy. If particles are in thermal equilibrium at temperature T then their kinetic energy is given by 3 by 2 kT therefore lambda is equal to H upon root 2 M kinetic energy so the wavelength is equal to H upon root 3 M into k into T. So the properties of matter waves can be matter waves are produced by the motion of the particles and are independent of the charge therefore they are neither electromagnetic nor acoustic waves but they are a new kind of waves. The smaller the velocity of the particle the longer is the wavelength of matter waves that is associated with it. They can travel through vacuum and they do not require any material medium for their propagation. The velocity of matter waves depends on the velocity of the material particle and is not a constant quantity. The lighter the particle the longer is the wavelength of the matter waves associated with it. The velocity of matter waves is greater than the velocity of light. And lastly the exhibit diffraction phenomena as any other waves. Students, now please pause the video and solve the numerical, please check for the correct answer. Thank you.


Hello, welcome to Kondo Insider, Hawaii's show about association living, mostly Kondo's. I was reading an article the other day that talked about 38% of our population live in some form of association, which is probably 300,000 or 400,000 people. But if you're feeling a little shaking right now going on, it's probably an earthquake because our city council is voting on the sprinkler bill down at the Capitol or the Honolulu Holly today. So as we sit here at this exact moment, the big debate on fire sprinklers for Kondo's is surfacing and next week we'll have Jane Sugimura to give us an update where that is going. But I'd say optimistically I think there's going to be a balance that makes it okay for everyone. That being said, we've decided to have a review of 514b Hawaii's Kondo Law over the next four or five weeks to give our new board members and people who don't understand an opportunity to kind of get a general review of our Kondo legislation. So I've asked one of my dearest friends, Naland, attorney with Damon Key, Leon Cupjack, Astor, something like that. I can never, the names are too long. Anyway, to come and talk to us about 514b and the series going over the next couple months and welcome back as usual. Happy Thursday everyone. Glad to be here again. Yes, you've been doing this for a long time. You'll kind of just review your background on Kondo stuff and what you're doing so we get it cut up to date. Sure. As Richard said, I'm an attorney with the law firm Damon Key, Leon Cupjack, Astor. We provide full services to Kondo Minions and community associations representing association as their general counsel and general matter consulting, collection for closure, and also their dispute resolution and litigation matters. I graduated from UH Law School and then started my practice in the Kondo industry and I've been representing associations for almost nine years. I also serve on legislative action committee for our Kondo industry, lobbying for associations and homeowners in the state. Well, you've certainly worked with you on many cases, are very talented and very knowledgeable and frankly I like the way you're able to talk to clients and share with them in logical ways. Some lawyers practice law, which is important, but some can apply the business side to it and the reality to it versus the legal side to it to bring quality resolution as the problem. So I thank you for that because you certainly have earned my respect through your professional ability over the last nine years. So I appreciate opportunity to work with you and I'm going to start out this guy. I said this whole thing about 514B, but last year we repealed 514A, January 1, 2019. Just briefly for the 514A Kondos out there, tell them what that means. For associations, really, you're not much more affected. It's more like the developers who want to sell those units under 514A. For associations, the only exception may be one regarding 75% to amend your DAC or bylaws. If you're still under 514B, it would be better for you to make an amendment to your DAC and bylaw to fully adopt 514B. Other than that, all the projects will be automatically subject to 514B. You don't have to worry about anything. But on the other hand, if your project has gone through so many amendments, you've never done a restatement. It would be a good timing to do that because for new directors or homeowners, it would be confusing for them to read like a very old DAC with multiple amendments. A restatement at this stage would be very clean to make sure all the provisions in one document are compliant with the statute and also reflect all the previous amendments you recorded with the state. I know when this came up before the legislature on 514A, the concern was when you look at 514B, part six association governance under 514B applied to 514A condominiums anyway. The legislature felt it was confusing to owners because they'd be reading 514A and they wouldn't understand that now 514B was the controlling document in certain cases, but not other cases. They felt after all these years that having a single document 514B would be the best solution. Realizing the developer who still had projects under 514A would have some problems and that's why they made it January 1, 2019 to give them a chance to clean it up. That's very true. So let's talk about 514B and in a way it's 514A because some of this applies to everybody and let's just talk about documents or I should say the governing documents and I think there's a lot of us understanding what the basic documents are to govern an association. Forgetting the laws, we're talking about the association documents themselves. It begins with the declaration? Yes, that's how you create a condo by filing a declaration with the Real Estate Commission. So the condo is formed theoretically or becomes an entity as soon as it's filed. Yes. That being said, the statute has a whole bunch of requirements for developers before they can sell it or offer it for sale and build it and do other things. So the association may be formed before the project's even built. Yes, they have to file a public report and the REC Real Estate Commission will assign an effective date. From that point on, they can start to offer sale of those condo units. And what is the primary purpose of the declaration? The declaration basically defines the common element who owns what in the common shared property. It also defines the association's responsibilities and their rights and also what are the unit owner's rights and obligations. It also talks about the permissible usage of the condo units, things like that, important provisions on insurance, like other statutory elements required for a declaration. See, I've always said it to make it simple for people listening. The declaration is kind of what you own, what's the common element, what's the limited common element, what's the apartment and what you owe. So how you pay maintenance fees and what obligations you have to pay for and how that's distributed like percentage of the common interest between the apartments. And at the declaration, the sub-document under that would be the declaration establishes that there will be bylaws. Yes, because the association usually run by and through the board of directors. Your bylaws will have all the information about who can serve on the board, how the board will have meetings, how the property will operate, like how owners can participate in the process, like voting, election, removal from board directors and some more, like regulations. Some bylaws are more detailed to have regulations on the usage of the units and alterations you can make, things like that too. See, the way, as I said, the declaration is what you own and what you owe. Look at the bylaws, the sub-board is governance, how the project will be governed. Yes. And then the third document's going to be house rules. And what are they? Just the leader of meeting house rules, you know, how things should be down, how you can use your apartment, what are prohibited, what you cannot do in the project, things like that. And then if there's a violation, what the board can do and what owners, what process you can follow to get notified and be heard when you have a chance to respond to those violation citations, things like that. Yeah, I've always said it's the kind of the rules so you can all live happily ever after together.  And sometimes the board can approve them based on the governing documents and sometimes changes have to be approved by the owners on the house rules. But more times than not, my experience is house rules can be established by the board and maintained by the board and changed by the board if they want to change it for some reason. So let's talk a little bit about governance. We talked about you have a board of directors, who can serve on the board? You have to be a unit owner or there's special situations like agreement of sale, then the purchaser, but the seller usually reserves certain rights that would affect their security interests in the unit. If it's a trust then the trustee can serve as the board director. If it's a company then the company's representative can also serve. And you can only have on the board one owner per unit. Yes. So if you owned two units you could have maybe your husband or wife one representing one unit and one representing the other unit. Correct. You know, but you can't have a husband or wife with one unit both serving on the board. No, you cannot. So you know I had an interesting question that came to me by one of our property managers just within the last couple days. And what it was was the owner of record was a father who had, I'll use my name, the Richard Emory Living Trust. And at the meeting they wanted to elect his son because he's a beneficiary of the trust that if something happened to the father he would become the trustee. Is he eligible to serve on the board? No, because the current trustee is probably Richard Emory. So you are the only one who can serve if you want to. Yeah, that's what I see. Well, how about if I rent my unit and I have a really great tenant and I want my tenant to serve on the board? The statute basically prohibits tenant from serving on the board. Same thing as a resident manager or the employee of the association. Those people cannot serve on the board. Now, if I, which I do work for a management company and I own a condominium and my wife wants to run for the board and she's not an employee of the management company. Can she run for the board? She can but there will be conflict of interest on certain issues. She has to refrain from participating on voting on those kind of issues like a management contract with your company, things like that. Right. And so she can serve on the board. Actually, even I as an employee can serve on the board. I just couldn't be an officer. Yes, that's specifically providing the statute. Because I as an owner independent of my job certainly have rights to the property I own and live in and so the statute basically tries to prevent management company employees and our resident managers from serving in a role that would be a conflict of interest in that process. So let me ask you this. We now have a board meeting and you know boards sometimes have angry owners. Can they participate in the board meeting? Yes. The owner has a statutory right to participate all board meetings except of executive session. An executive session is illegal and personnel and confidentiality matters. I got an email just today from a owner who was saying my board said a policy I only can speak in the form which is 20 minutes after the meeting. Is that right? The statute does give the board authority to adopt owner participation rule. As long as it's reasonable owners need to comply with that when you participate in board meetings. Right. And the statute does specifically say that they can participate on each agenda items. So we basically say to owners or boards is look, start with we're going to discuss whether we want to paint the building pink today. The board is going to discuss it first. Before we take a vote we'll give owners two minutes to speak on that agenda item. No one wants to speak thank you we're going to vote. But try to provide a vehicle because the statute says they have the right to participate on every agenda item. Try to establish rules so that they feel inclusive which probably makes a lot of sense for transparency that give them why don't like pink I'd rather have blue you know. So it's my understanding that a meeting rules require boards to establish rules to allow them to participate on each agenda item but can also allow them to put limits on it so it doesn't become a shouting match or extend the length of the business meeting of the board. And on that note we're going to take a short one minute break and come back on 514b and the basics. I'm DeSoto Brown the co-host of Human Humane Architecture which is seen on Think Tech Hawaii every other Tuesday at 4 p.m. And with the show's host Martin Desbang we discuss architecture here in the Hawaiian Islands and how it not only affects the way we live but other aspects of our life not only here in Hawaii but internationally as well. So join us for Human Humane Architecture every other Tuesday at 4 p.m. on Think Tech Hawaii. Hi I'm Pete McGinnis-Mark and every Monday at one o'clock I'm the host of Think Tech Hawaii's research in Monart and at that program we bring to you a whole range of new scientific results from the university ranging from everything from exploring the solar system to looking at the earth from space going underwater talking about earthquakes and volcanoes and other things which have a direct relevance not only to Hawaii but also to our economy. So please try and join me one o'clock on a Monday afternoon to Think Tech Hawaii's research in Monart and see you then. Welcome back to Kondo Insider we've been talking with Nalaan a prominent local attorney on 514b which is the beginning of a series of reviews of the kind of many of statute and we were talking about the basic governing documents declaration by laws house rules we got into some governance with who can be on the board and I'm going to now ask her should boards keep minutes of meetings? Yes it's required by the statute. And are owners entitled to the minutes? Yes there's specific provisions regarding when and how owners can request for meeting minutes and what obligation that association has to comply as to the production of those minutes. How about executive sessions should they keep minutes for executive sessions? There's no statutory mandate on keeping minutes for the executive session but the statutory language indicates that you can do that if you want to. And I think people should know that if you kept minutes they are subject to subpoena if you ever got into a lawsuit. That's very true you may be able to redact certain information under attorney time privilege or some special privilege you have but in general if there is a discreary in a lawsuit you are obligated to produce whatever documents that's within the scope of the discovery request. Well I've seen it all the time in lawsuits where they've requested copies of executive session minutes and in some cases the boards don't keep up minutes and in some cases they occasionally keep minutes of something specific that they want to address in writing but there is no statutory obligation to it and there's a lot of debate whether you should or you should not keep minutes of executive sessions. But I do know that if you did keep minutes that owners are not entitled to the minutes of executive session. It would only be by subpoena or you know some legal proceeding that you had to produce them so an owner couldn't violate the executive session privilege by saying well give me a copy of your minutes after the executive session was over. So that's my understanding anyway subject to my expert legal person here saying you're wrong. I'm sending you to jail for 20 years. I agree with you. You're giving wrong information to everybody so for everybody here. So should the vote of the board be in the regular meeting minutes? All the board voting results should be reflected in the board meeting as official association action. And that's a good thing. Yes. So you know how your people are voting or not voting and I guess they have the right to vote in favor against or abstain and they might not stay in because they say well we're talking about the management company's contract and my husband works for the management company so I'm going to abstain. Yes actually the statute requires you to make a disclosure and that disclosure has to be reflected in the meeting minutes. So we would know and I saw an interesting situation where the conflict of interest thing was argued in a very unique way at an annual meeting and because someone gave an owner who was a board member 10 proxies and they were now going to vote for election and he was up for election they argued he had a conflict of interest for using the proxies given to him to vote for himself. No that's not. Nice try but that's what that's what the argument was you know and that you I mean certainly I'm sure every person who almost every person who is voting is going to vote for himself and you would think that that owner knew that they were going to vote for himself and so he's able to vote and that's not a conflict of interest you know. No yeah. And but you're right about most important thing is it must be disclosed it must be in the minutes and you can't vote. I find it interesting at the last year's legislature we had several bills trying to strengthen the conflict of interest because for whatever reason the legislature didn't know that provision existed already you know and they were trying to make a criminal penalty if you voted you had a conflict and and all the rest of this and the industry's position was well look the statute already covers this but how many complaints have you had if you look at all the mediations in the lawsuits I've only seen one conflict of interest lawsuit in the last 10 years you know so why do we need to scare all these volunteers serving on the board of this criminalization so the bill died but it's interesting the things that come up. So how many records do associations have to keep records? Yes certain records there are specific statutory requirements. And can you list some of them? Yeah for example like of course project documents and like financial documents meeting minutes contracts signed by the association your expenditure records receipts payments that you made to other parties things like that or you know some other like a delinquency records for owners and for the whole project a reserve study you know all those kind of things insurance policies yeah. Are owners entitled to those documents? There are specific items you know the statute is really clear on what you can get what you cannot you know most of the what we mentioned they are entitled to it except of the individual units delinquency documents. Yeah let's talk about that because I get that question all the time about well I think my neighbor is delinquent I want to see all the charges for him and all the fines that he's been assessed and all his payments that he's made on his ledger and we've taken a position you can't get that that it's private privacy information that you're only entitled to a summary of those delinquencies over 90 days not by units so you'd know a person a unit number or an owner who is delinquent over 90 days but in fact we're not going to give out there someone else's privacy information which would be his ledger his payments and and those types of things do you think I'm right on that yeah because the federal law federal debt collection act actually prohibits you know a creditor from disclosing a delinquent owner's information to a third party without that delinquent owner's the return authorization so you got to be really careful about that and that's where you can use the executive session if you're working with a delinquent owner on their payment plan things like that yeah so we we tell boards all the time that our owners all the time you can't have someone else's information and so if you have a delinquent owner they're going to enter into a private payment plan because the statute provides up to 12 months on a delinquency you know that's done in private between the owner and the board but that's not public information to the rest of the owners yeah and that's because of the federal law on that and so that's kind of the one misunderstanding but the other question we always get is that the statute's pretty clear that if an owner signs an affidavit and they want to get a list of all the other owners in their addresses they can get that under the statute so they can write them to say I don't like this or I like that or whatever it may be but we always get the request for email and phone numbers well I want their email and phone number are owners entitled to other owners email and phone numbers by law no and actually a lot of the associations they don't want to collect owners emails or you know like special emails that's a privacy matter and whatever you know the snail mail address you get and the owner's names are also only for association matters you can't use that to do like commercial solicitation or for political matter you know so you've got to be careful about that's why using an affidavit from the user would be a good idea yeah we think we think that's a good idea that they have an affidavit list we'll give them the regular mail list but we don't give them the email or the phone numbers figuring that owners have a right to privacy and in fact the last thing they want is maybe someone who's angry barraging them with emails on their political cause or phone calls you know they want to just enjoy their life and they should have the right to choose who gets their privacy information you know I would tell you just a quick side story as our companies introducing a new app mobile app on the phone where all sorts of records and information and payment abilities exist for a wide variety of of information that's you're allowed to have by statute what I find was interesting there's certain features you can turn on or turn off and they had a optional feature that we could turn on that all owners could communicate with all owners by this blog for lack of a better word and I said no don't turn that on and here in Hawaii there's too many people who get upset and they just barrage this stuff with endless information they just can't let it go and owners are just gonna get upset that they're included in this then you're gonna have to turn it off and I think transparency is good but I think it's up to each individual's rights to pick who they want to hear from or not hear from yeah I mean new technology does provide us with an opportunity to bring in more you know varied ways to communicate with each other but you know there are like boundaries that we should be careful about so can an owner get legal opinions they should do the board usually the legal opinion would be covered under the attorney kind privilege you know the association shouldn't disclose it to a non board director who would waive the attorney kind privilege that would open the floodgate of any communication relevant to that topic relevant to that communication it's very dangerous they should refrain from doing that if there's potential litigation that document could also be covered under the work product as the attorneys you know I hate the key words you said related to that topic sometimes I know boards will say well who's responsible is it to maintain the lanai railings and they get a legal opinion from the attorney and the the analysis of the declaration and the law and they want all the owners to know that they could certainly write to all the owners and say because of this issue we went to our attorney and here's his opinion that it is the owner's responsibility to maintain the lanai railing in my example and they could do that if they elected to yes and it would only be related to that topic it doesn't mean because they did another legal opinion on something else that they would get all the legal opinions yeah it's the communication between the attorney and the client that's the privileged part if you just you know let's see you copy and paste some of the contents make in a separate communication between the board and the unit owners then that will be a different story how about association bank statements and signature cards that open up the bank account for security reason you know for those stuff I think the association should redact that you know to just avoid any you know internet crime or any you know financial crime that could somebody could you know forge those signatures or use it in an improper illegal way right technically speaking that the statute doesn't define bank statements and signature cards we've taken a position to redact those things versus not giving them because not way much to them but you know in bank statements you get electronic information bank account information signature cards you get signatures who's the authorized signers and in cybercrime is a big problem today so we are very cautious about that I know we're getting near the end of the show so I'll ask you one more and that is who's responsible for paying all this the owner the requesting owner you need to pay for the reasonable copy and admin charge but the association should let you know 10 days before charging you that whether you want to incur the the cost if the owner decides oh no I want to withdraw my request that's fine if you want to proceed ahead then the managing agent or the association they can charge a reasonable fee that's there's a ceiling of one dollar per page you know the thing I found most times you get an owner who's angry and so he'll say I want all of the records he'll take everyone listed in the statute for the last 10 years instead of thinking what they're really trying to accomplish but to be candid with him you tried to copy that a dollar per page there'd be thousands of dollars you know we suggest they request the boxes come down and review them in the office and there may be some retrieval costs and some other admin costs related to that but just to get angry and throw the dart of I want everything that's probably not going to be as helpful if they don't really think through what they're trying to get but anyway I want to thank you again for being on condo insider we are going to continue our show with 514b and trying to highlight some of the major parts of the law I see the earthquake has stopped so I guess the city council has done something on sprinklers and we'll know more about that next week with Jane Sugimura thank you for watching condo insider


Hello and let's talk about COVID-19 and the banking sector. Over the past week, we saw Finance Minister Nirmala Sitaraman announce various components of the Rs 20 lakh road package that the Prime Minister had earlier announced. Now a lot of experts have pointed out that Rs 20 lakh road is actually not going to be spent by the government and in fact the fiscal outlay or the actual spending may be only around 1% of the GDP as opposed to the 10% he declared. However, even the schemes that have been announced are mostly going to be executed by the banks. There's a lot of responsibility on them especially when it comes to the giving out of credit and other such issues. So how are the bank employees coping in such a situation? What are the challenges they face? We talked to Thomas Franco, the former General Secretary of the All India Bank Offices Confederation on this issue. Thank you so much for joining us sir. So what we're seeing is a situation where on the one hand people are not going to really end up with much money in their hands and on the other hand the actual number of bad loans, the SOPs to the private sector are going to increase and all the finance ministers of course also announced measures for massive privatization as well. So in this context what is the situation faced by the bank employees especially those who have been working relentlessly over the past few days they are some of the employees who have not really got a chance to stay at home or work from home or do anything of that sort. So what is the situation right now? One is this privatization announcement is going to be very bad for the economy and for the banks also and especially for the enterprise. See when you have to use some stimulus all along the public sector was used. You buy the production of the industry, you buy from the car, you buy from the micro small enterprises. So huge enterprises like the railways, the oil sector, the telecom sector, all of them were buying. Now, Mr. Nitin Katkari had even announced in the last session of the parliament that 5 lakh crores is what is due from government and public sector undertakes the MSMEs. Now they have said they will release it within 45 days. We have to wait and see whether it is really given. Now once you privatize that condition you cannot put. So these enterprises themselves are going to get into crisis. Now coming to the part of the banks, the banks are working under severe strain. Number one is the acute shortage of manpower. In the last 5-6 years the recruitments have been curtailed in such a way that you are not recruiting even the number of employees who are retiring. They had been wanting to give a push towards this digital for which they have put a curtailment on the recruitment. So the banks are understaffed and because of that banks were concentrating on larger credits which was easy. Now time has come you have to concentrate on the retail credit. For example, you are saying that you give this 45 lakh industries loans. It requires huge manpower and another 50 lakh people you have to give this 10,000 rupees loan for the traders that is the street vendor. In my opinion that should have been simply as a package free to those people. They are the poorest. After all 5,000 crores the government can afford. They should reconsider. Otherwise you are making them to run to the banks for number of days and putting strain on the bank also and the banks they present strain apart from the stock shortages. See when the whole country was under lockdown banks were working full. Transportation was problem. They had to travel in their own vehicles. I have seen girls driving their scooter 60 kilometers 70 kilometers to attend to their office. So there is naturally a mental fatigue. Secondly, the government announced a package of 50 lakh insurances for who the people especially in the health workers that 50 lakhs will be the insurance coverage for them in case of COVID disease. But same is not extended to the bank as already for my own information. I know of four cases of deaths due to COVID among the banks. So there the individual banks are deciding 10 lakhs, 15 lakhs, 20 lakhs maximum. 20 lakhs only has been announced by state bank. So that is also people are very unhappy. Number three for one year they have put a hold on transfer. Now everybody wants to go back to their hometown. Whatever is the difficulty including the migrant labor. But that is also put on hold. So that is another unhappiness. Then the wage reduction. Now it is overdue by 930 days. The stocks also have come to a standstill. So that also people are very unhappy. So the morale has been totally down. So the government has to take action on boosting the morale of the bank otherwise even if they announce whatever schemes banks also find their own way out to fulfill the target. An interesting example I would like to tell you. The government was pushing stand-up India scheme. I have seen a lot of bankers contacting their existing customers, doctors who actually do not require credit. Tell them that okay sir we have a new scheme, tick and lag loan. Buy some equipment. They were also buying happily. They were charging their customers. That is the sick people were being forced to pay more. Similarly Mudra loan when there was a pressure the bankers were pointing it easy to find some known fellow around their house or around the branch fulfill that 25 number target. So actual needy person may not get this loan unless you give a morale boost to the bankers. That is my suggestion. And finally the key in certain in a few concrete points could you talk about what would be the recommendations from your side, from the side of the unions that are thinking about these issues. What are the key recommendations to the government right now? Number one I would suggest that there should be a massive recruitment. That might take time for that. There is a readymade solution. There is a huge number of business correspondents who are sitting in villages with a customer service point. They were not given much of benefit though they were handling this direct benefit transfer of 500 rupees and all. Most of it was handled by them. They were given just one transaction, two rupees more. And their insurance cover is just un-lack. If they die of covid also they get un-lack. So these business correspondents whose number is more than lakhs. They can be as per an award report it is almost 25 lakhs. So they can be absolved as regular employees and these customer service points can be converted into branches, small branches. So that will create a bigger change in the economy as of now. Secondly their life and death issue is naturally the wage issue that has to be looked into it has to be addressed immediately. Then you have to increase the fiscal stimulus. Unless you flow in more money into the economy whatever loans you are giving that will also go back. Now you remember during the budget and little before that in the speech the prime minister also announced that we are going to work towards a five trillion economy and the concrete announcement made by the finance minister was that within five years 103 lakh crores will be spent for infrastructure. Now you divide it. So for this year they should be spending at least 20 lakh crores. Let them spend that. Right. That will create a lot of employment opportunities and infrastructure is what is going to build up the economy. Similarly the existing loans restructuring schemes have to be announced because once you say you cannot classify it as NPA earlier Reserve Bank had permitted the restructuring which was stopped and now it is allowed only for MSMEs. It might be requiring for the housing sector also the other people. Here one thing as people at large we should worry about is that the focus now from the Reserve Bank as well as the government is that okay instead of expanding the bank branches and staff you learn to the non-banking financial. Non-banking financial companies many of them are run by again corporates. Reliance has its own. We know in south is Muthur Malapuram and Bajaj finance. We have seen the Deewan housing what has happened to it. We have seen the ILF. These companies are going to be even more loans which can later on go back. More than that they will be taking loan at 10 or 11 percent from the bank and they will be lending it at 24 percent. They are permitted to do that and some of them in addition to this they charge something called service charge also. So this is going to be very bad for the customers as well as for the banks. So this has to be rethought. Similarly an interest subvention scheme. Just to quote one example of Thailand. Thailand average interest rate is 15 percent but they have announced three different loan schemes. For the poorest of poor 0.1 percent interest. Another section it is 0.35 percent interest and for the MSMEs it is 2 percent to 3 percent interest. So that kind of interest subvention has to be done. Then only this economy can see enterprises have to survive. As I said they are going to have a big constraint in the bank power. We have treated the people in such a bad way. People will be willing to die in their native place and they won't want to go back as migrant laborers once again. Then you have problem of raw material. So at that time the government has to do this incentive of interest concession is myself. Similarly what they have announced is 100 percent credit guarantee. That is not 100 percent. The credit cover which is today available is for certain loans it is only 50 percent. Some loans it is 75 percent and maximum is 85 percent. And there is something called a quick mortality. If the loan goes back soon then the guarantee cover will not apply. So the overall changing of the credit guarantee scheme is required. If you are really saying 100 percent it should be made 100 percent. These kind of efforts if it is taken then it will definitely bring a change in the economy. Thank you so much sir for talking to us. Thank you. In our next segment we discussed the possibility of the resumption of sport activity in India. Now some sport activities have begun in Germany and in the US and the government is also in India declared that stadiums and sporting centers can be open. So is it possible to really resume sport activity or is it going to take some more time? We talked to Leslie Xavier of NewsClick SportsDisc. Thank you Leslie for joining us. So we have seen sporting events resume in certain parts of the world. Germany and the US are examples of course these are being done with a lot of protection then or they are basically zero audience events to a large extent. And there has been a lot of speculation about whether some of this will happen in India as well. In fact the government has said that stadiums and sports centers can reopen. So as we are discussing these issues as the country is discussing these issues what do you think the situation in India is? Are we looking at the possibility of a proper reopening or is it something that is going to probably take some more time? Well to be frank it's too early to to think about reopening sport in the country as that's because we're talking about Germany. I mean if you're looking at mass sport when then you have to take into consideration the action that started in Germany the Bundesliga football. Because in the US it has been UFC there was an invitation golf even that happened which was very close doors and only three players involved but UFC being close combat sport that was a little tricky from their part to open it but then they conducted it like a reality show. For UFC you can quarantine the fighters in facilities that they have training facilities and they call it I mean it's practically a jail but they call it training camps so that way they can control the environment. Bundesliga very keen to see what happens 14 days ends because the first week of action happened but then you know the gestational period of the virus. Because it's not just about 22 players on the pitch it's all over it's about support crew it's about camera crew to stream it. So stadium is not like it's just the players and the coaching staff involved it's probably a 200 odd people around to make it happen. So that's a large crowd so how much do you quarantine how much do you trace their contacts trace their history of so all these things are tricky and all these things are impossible to put in place in a country like India where the situation as far as COVID-19 is concerned is not exactly under control despite the almost two months long lockdown we are breaking records every day as we speak I mean as far as infections are concerned and this without proper and full-fledged testing as such. So opening stadiums and sports centers great it would provide avenues for certain athletes and some of our youngsters to train. Cricket has been very clear that they wouldn't put their cricketers into training I mean just because the stadiums are open because they have to they are keen on putting the logistics in place ensuring that safety and safety is paramount of course. So will that translate to all the other federations taking measures before jumping in it's it remains to be seen because as far as we know our administrators are a little not exactly very objective as far as planning is concerned when implementing certain measures. So in this context I understand that the Indian Olympic Association has also asked for some money from the government considering the with the argument that this is essential for resuming sport activity in the country. So key question is is this money necessary is it enough and will it actually help bring about what the IOA says it will do. But it's it's I mean it's multifaceted question that way but yeah to be I mean fair to the IOA the money is important because sport is one sector that was I mean directly and I mean affected and it's very evidently affected by the pandemic and action has completely shut down there are campers stuck in various facilities I'm talking about the elite Indian athletes of course at the lower level many athletes are struggling to train they are struggling for day to day existence as well because not not all of them have steady jobs and things like that. But IOA asking money and to be exact it's there is a breakup of the money to be exact it's 220 crore which is which should which is out of which 10 crore is for the IOA Indian Olympic Association itself and then one crore each to the 34 state Olympic associations and then there is 31 Olympic federations national sports federations and eight non Olympic national sports federations. So the amount is to be divided among among these two that is the request that Indian Olympic Association president Narendra Bhattra forwarded to the sports ministry. But the point is there are many ironies in this request first thing is the 220 crore that you mentioned in this it's it's it's slightly below the yearly allocation budgetary allocation for national sports federations in the union budget. So in the union budget which which was presented by Nirmala Sitaraman in February the allocation was 245 crore for the for the national sports federation while the chunk of the the total budget is 2826.92 crore the total union sports budget out of which the biggest chunk 890.5 crore was reserved for the pet project of prime minister which is Kailo India. Now I mean it's a it's a different debate whether Kailo India serves the purpose of bringing sport up and Indian sport up into the higher echelons of world sport where we get Olympic medals. That's that's that's the claim but that's a different I mean whether it serves the grassroots as as much as it should or whether pumping in money into the national federations serves the purpose that is a question. But evidently IOA believes that the national federations are the ones that are playing a key role in spending sport at the grassroots. And so when the budget was allocated this very IOA or the national sports federations never raised any issue about the very very small amount that has been allocated for them. And now they are asking for money and they are asking for money again a month after these federations have had donated money to PMKS. So my question now is if they were really cash trapped then why do that show why do I do that PR show. That's that's that's one question that they need to answer. And secondly if if at all the money is allocated will it be used in the right way for the right people for the right development of sport or right opening of sport at all levels not just really level or will it again be in the hands of administrators who would spend it at their whims and fancies probably donate it at some random new fund that will come up down there which which which lacks any clarity as to where the funding would be used. So these are questions that need to be I mean so this this provides that correct picture of how Indian sport I mean Indian sport is administered, Indian sport is run. There is a lot of I mean gimmicks which which is the case for the whole sectors I guess and there are also a clear lack of planning because this is a blanket amount that that you have thrown at the ministry saying that we need so much of money to restart but where is the plan and when and what is the question as well because we are not looking at I mean any any clear time frame where things would be close to normal as far as controlling the infections are concerned right we are we are not open transport logistics assets interstate travel all these things. So yeah it's it's great to seek fund in advance so that plans can be made but then I feel when when it's when it's about sport and when it's when it's in such an unprecedented situation that we are now we need to have a plan in place before seeking fund because fund is at a premium because fund is needed on all sectors and probably I mean being a sports journalist I shouldn't be saying it but probably sport comes way down the picking order as far as priorities concerned. Exactly so what the administrators need to do is basically also have a much larger debate in the country or probably there's no history of it but right now it is essential to sort of have a much larger broader discussion on how to take policy forward. Yeah again so so IOAS to be fair again to IOF unprecedented move again because democracies democratic means is is a little I mean less in Indian sport but IOA a couple of last week to be exact they they sent out a google form to to journalists as well as well as all the national federation sports persons and all to give to give feedback on how we deal with this reopening so form is pretty basic whether we should open whether we shouldn't which sport should be given priority for instance certain sport have an advantage when it comes to reopening certain certain sport doesn't like wrestling and all are very difficult to reopen because it's it's close combat sport but maybe archery is archery can be done certain non combat sport can be done certain sport can be demonstration sport like gymnastics and all can be done online it's happening by the way karate or gymnastics and all this sport the demonstration part of it like other demonstration in karate it's there are many online competitions that are happening where people can record on zoom I mean come online on zoom and demonstrate and the judges will the judges will give you points and so similar moves can be made but so IOA has reached out to people for the plan but whether the assimilation of ideas work in any context it's because because a lot of ideas would come in a lot of interest because different sport have different priorities different interest different way to implement these things so so it it might not exactly be a great idea to assimilate all all all the values maybe the you can you can bring in specific people who are involved in at the deeper level from the lowest to the highest in specific sport make plan the federations make their plan present it to IOA and then a consolidated plan we make giving out a google form again reeks of gimmick that we mentioned that I mentioned earlier in the discussion as far as donation is concerned it's something something as similar as that because it gives you great PR people will say look IOA is asking us for for feedback but but it's it's impractical if you ask me right thank you so much Leslie for talking to us sweet okay thank you so much see regarding this user and that's all we have in this episode let's talk we'll be back tomorrow with the latest news developments of the day until then keep watching news click