the smaller magma dross. Yes The other children of vulgar tricks or dragon breath weapons. I would take the dragon breath weapon, too That's the last thing we need more of um Okay Melee he's got his big grand axe You know four attacks three and three is neg one three damage as you mentioned already That's the challenge here is the rend one, but there are ways to mitigate that as we've discussed And then the magma droth itself is obviously his mount that uh, I just mean for rules purposes It's a mount.  Yeah But when you think about um, you can get him double piling in Yeah, all the different ways you mentioned like here's the double attacks. Here's the double piling in here's Here's a lot of different things we could do plus one rend and plus one damage right making him Making him rend two damage four It's just there's options here. Well, and he can take the trait so that when he stops He does a d three plus three mortals. Yeah Like before the fight starts He could activate the heroic action to be getting the enhanced rune of whatever turn you're on so like plus one to hit and plus one To uh, his attacks characteristic, right? So blazing maw would have moved a rend four two and rend four as well Oh, it's true. Yeah. Yeah, I mean blazing maw would be rend four great Grand acts would be rend four and the claws would be rend three Yeah, if you're you're saying if you gave him if you did the red trick with the wind Yeah, sure. Yep, or you could watch your friends block of plague bears evaporate if you give them the no ward save one On all those multi wound weapons. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely um, so You know like again, this guy can become a really scary threat Um, we should also just very quickly mention his lord of the lodge ability because it is worth talking about Because he has another way we'll see it again and again. Yeah, I used to be a command ability Almost kind of for like type of thing. Yeah, right Once for battle at the start of your combat phase you can pick one friendly unit on the battlefield with this ability to unleash the wrath of grim near If you do so until the end of that phase add one to the attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly fire slayer units while they're holy within 12 Uh of that unit, which of course is also including him. So again more Ways to get more attacks more damage more everything because then if he uses that and then he double has the Command rate to double pile in it's actually going to end up being a You know one two three four five six extra attacks just from that ability alone, right that kind of thing. So yeah It should be noted noted by the way that the way that this is worded um Even if you have multiple rune fathers spread across your army, you only get to trigger this ability once ever Um Yeah, that's a good question. Okay, because once for rattle you pick one friendly unit. Yeah, I understand Yep. Yeah, and this wording is actually I believe slightly different from the idk wording um But that also prompted a lot of discussion last week as to how these things are working. Yeah, right? Yeah um And so Yeah, it's like this. I don't like this new wording They need to stop using this wording because it is very confusing Like regardless of of how we'd read it this this and the idk achillian king ability are both going to need FAQs Because casual people who just kind of read this over would say, okay cool each, you know Or a person I have can do this Yep, once per game Like that's the easy read of this Hmm. Okay And I agree And like this has slightly different word. That's how I wanted to work, but it runs into the same problem Right. Okay. That's how I wanted to work. Sure, but you can easily see how somebody could interpret that differently Right. No, I'm picking a different guy and activating is once per battle ability because Like every other ability in the game that has once per battle is not doesn't create mutually exclusive, right? Right, right. Um So yes, exactly kuhl. There's there's that weird difference, right? That's happening here of this unit at any rate. They're they're both gonna need an FAQ Stop writing it like this if you want to make it so you can say however many of these guys you have You get to do this thing once Okay, then write that Yep, just write that game language say like this is just off the top of my head It's probably so wrong but like once per battle at the start of your combat phase Right one guy can do all this blah blah blah blah blah and then the last sentence you make is Once this ability has been activated on any Once this ability has been used it may not be used again by any block Right by any other Yes, yeah, like put something like that on the end make it super duper clear Like there's no reason for that. There's no reason for this confusion Okay, cool, right Oh, we should say their points too. Sorry And he takes back mortals by the way in melee. So still as the still as the volcanic blood Yeah, yep So he's worth eight mortals or nine if he's got the plus two two wounds Uh, assuming he goes from life to death at some point and isn't healed Uh, all right. So this dude the rune father is 360 points. I think perfectly usable Dude slaps for 360. Yeah Mm-hmm. Yep Okay, absolutely oric rune sun Uh, many of the same abilities Right still has the fire stream still has the tail Still has the volcanic blood all that kind of thing same profile on the The the thing itself the night itself. Yep. Um, okay uh What what's tom Explain to us the difference for the rune sun for everybody like obviously he has this buying for glory and slightly different weapon options So what's your what's your why do you like this guy? Where is he useful? Uh, in general, I like him the least of the three. Um, and but I mean, I still think he's useful I like the ancestral war axe as my weapon Um five five attacks threes and threes neg one rend two damage um So he has one more attack One less damage Uh, but the key is is if he's target sponsors and throws a six to hit, uh, the wound becomes mortal wounds Uh, and the attack sequence ends and so he has the ability to really output some mortals Um, I think that the worm slayer javelin is still a trap Hmm So that's where I'm at Okay, I'd agree with that and we should also state that the rune son who's 320 points He is that he is the cheapest of your your magma druth writers. Um, this is the one that becomes battle line in Yes, yeah, yes, like which he's perfectly acceptable for battle line But if I'm having to pick between him and the father, I'm probably gonna pick the father I don't know like it's tough because the father has a better base attack um, but Uh for 20, but like if you can't reuse the multi attack bubble The bonus attack bubble then this guy is a better like default Extra like second pick is what I would say For for for glory. Yeah, it's nice to have that option against monsters. There's a lot of scary monsters in the meta, right? Yeah, okay And then finally, uh in our magma boys, uh We've got the rune smita or mag smiter as you called him earlier as all the cool kids Call him again. You have a mag a mag father a mag son and a mag smiter, right?  You've got the tail. You've got the volcanic blood This guy's special thing is runic empowerment Which is rare No, his special thing is not runic empowerment It's different than the other two is what I'm saying. That's his special thing is curse He's a priest And so the key the key with him is he's the number one curse bearer That's fine. I was going to talk about this unique Don't stop you're wasting your time with the unique prayer and plus That's bs don't waste your time with any of that his unique ability is called curse And he's going to run he's going to run into combat You know run out 12 inches and then curse somebody at eight inches the next turn. That's what he's going to do Yeah, uh, I mean his his default prayer is not bad. I just want to say that like he does have a decent range plus one to wound And he's going to be your carer of the mag helm too like the the plus one to wound bubble for weapons And so you're going to equip him with that to support the father and the son And then you're going to also use curse because of course you are Yeah, I mean it yes, you have a lot of powerful priests. This is one of them He's tough enough that he'll live and can be up in the You know near enough to the mix to start cursing people and curse is very scary.  This is uh, this is 30 axes on average. I will do five mortal wounds Yeah, I mean look I've been whenever I I play my scaven. I live and die by that curse, baby I've got I got little priests running around just trying to make it happen because of the way I'm doing work It's how we it's how we get the work done. We don't have damage otherwise.  I don't know if they lose leader Um But when they become battle line, I think it's the key that they lose all other ones and become just battle line Well, if that's the case interestingly you can throw them in um the the At a d6 movement But the town because uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, because they would yeah, they would yes, they're not behemoth Leaders anymore. Well, no No, because they have to be behemoths in order to be in there. So I guess that wouldn't work. Yeah. Oh, you're talking alpha beast back I thought you're talking about other They still have to be behemoths That's the problem if you turn battle lines into into if you turn behemoths into battle lines They can't go an alpha beast back anymore. Yeah Because they key that to behemoth instead of to uh, Like yeah monster or something Anyways, um Fajul grim near and his chosen axis tom is this thing worth caring about? No Cool dug anything you like anything you care about with this guy No, no, he doesn't even he doesn't even get a good the the good Brune father bubble. So he's a rune father without the actual ability that you want Cool, let's move on. Uh, I like when underwent underworlds war bands are skippable. I'm fine with it. It's it's fine Well, I mean, let's find a book with only four war scrolls all together or whatever the heck we got here Let's be very clear.  Yeah Um, I'm looking at taking fire slayers for that. And if I do not taking this warband you're taking Yeah, I'm taking the ko one because I'm gonna throw them them in a frigate with five thunders. Um But like that's how bad this is is I look at it and I'm be like, uh, no, I don't want these guys free I'd rather a different free one. Yeah, sure in the army that they actually benefit all that from all the abilities for I agree with noops who said fajul is a source of good Is a good source of nice looking minis. They are some of the better-looking minis out of the range All of my mags I converted converted using the visual in his uh, chosen axis. Yeah. Oh, cool. Uh, all right Uh oric rune father, uh on foot so I love this dude Now we've got a four move. He's just got to move a four tom. Did you notice that it's not four inches? He just moves four.  Yeah, exactly. Well, they're in the U.K. so it's meters What's the isn't there a name for the distance between the sun and the earth Like isn't there a name for that measure of distance like an au or something? I'm pretty sure that's an actual measure of distance I don't know. I say he moves four of those So anywhere got it anyway. Yes, they forgot the little interest symbol, which is a funny joke Okay, four inch move six wounds four up save eight bravery He also has the make one run to fire steel axe He does. Yes. Well all the rune fathers keep them axes sharp, buddy As the rune sons, it's very instilled. It's a family legacy of sharpening your it's actually The heroes for those that have not caught this. Yeah Uh, the important part about these guys that we need to discuss So he does still have the big great axe like we talked about earlier. Yeah Uh-huh But the important part that we need to bring in with Uh Excellent. Yes. I was right an astronomical unit. Boom. All right. I remembered a thing God, it's been a long time since I learned that fact. I'm very happy with that Uh, at any rate. Yes, he moves four au's Deal with it FAQ it proved to me otherwise Okay Uh, what's important about these guys that we're going to deal with here is the red new Yeah, yeah So I'm just gonna just gonna kind of walk everybody through the red new thing here Uh At the start of the first battle round before determining who has the first turn You can pick one friendly or a hearth guard Or hearth guard berserkers unit on the battlefield not vulcites That's relevant. That's the important part or if you took that particular oath of grim earth berserker Right. Yes. That'd be the third option sneakily Um That is not another Units ret new to be this unit's ret new in other words. You can't double dip They there's no there's no side. There's no, uh, there's no doing sort of Pick up work here for multiple different leaders. Okay Royal ret new before you allocate a wound or mortal wound To this by the way, this makes me so angry before you allocate a wound or a mortal wound To this unit instead of making a ward roll Uh For a wound or mortal wound that would be allocated to this unit If the if this unit is within three inches of its ret new you can roll it die on a one to two It still applies to them on a three plus. It's allocated to the unit's ret new If the ret new has a ward you can make a world before allocating that wound or mortal wound to it They they codified they codified Bodyguard ward saves here. Yes, I give up I give up The design team was like events events Yeah, let's see if we can have them do like an aneurysm on air. Yes Like we literally did the lead you to the first print show where we walked forever through this entire argument By the way, that's still not settled because it doesn't have updated text But now we we wrote the cruel boys rule Where in the cruel boys? It says instead of making a ward roll. Okay, got it. Cool. I don't get it on my main guy with it Understood You can send it over to this other unit that unit may not negate this role And it may may not negate this wound, right? That's how the cruel boys thing is written. Yeah.  I love it. Um, I love it Oh, the other thing I'll mention is that they have the the other thing the retinue is doing That's not the only thing the retinue does is absorb. They these Leaders also Do the whole bring their unit with them?  Yeah, I mean it's interesting because in Gray fear this guy is seven wounds with three up board Like passing off like three up body guard that's passing off. I got you Um to hearth guard berserkers likely that are gonna four up ward it Yep Like yeah, what a great experience These dudes are going to be difficult to remove And like the most egregious thing and we'll get to this with the battlesmith is that like against shooting um You're gonna be able to rally your bodies back Mm-hmm Sure, and so there's a good shot that you will actually get across the table with your hero and their retinue.  Okay on bodyguarding Because it just ends up like being a super ward save now. I have less of a problem with occasionally doing that trick All right If the unit you pass to you're you're still getting some kind of damage on Yeah, but the fact that you can just pass it to more guys that then negate 50 percent more of the here of the wounds It's just like come on man What are we doing here? How many okay?  How does that work? Sounds and and and you're gonna rally them. So you're gonna put those models back Yeah, so good stuff Um, and he also has the lord of the lodge thing. All right, so this is a plan exactly how I like to play sure The orc rune son one less bravery one less wounds. Oh by the way, the rune father Uh is 125 points the rune son is 80 80 yeah, borgon basement rune sons Hey, he's trying to drop some paternity uh money. He's he's owing people. He's like, oh, yeah, just send all the boys out It'd be great. Yeah exactly Um, and yes I'm actually not hot on the rune son. I know a lot of people are Like at 80 points, I look at that and I'm like, mm for 25 more I could have a grip exactly No, that's that is the problem. I I don't disagree with you I look at the two of them. I'm like, yeah, I'm going for that grim wrath And that grim wrath did not take in a leader spot right right Yep Agreed Okay, let's keep going Uh the orc rune master and rune smiter. So welcome to priest town Uh as tom earlier mentioned, these are our two primary priest as an aside as an aside Because of where the rune son is priced You could reasonably have a 10 man unit of hearth guard berserkers And a rune son allied in to another force. Sure. Yeah And that and they still maintain the retinue body guard. They'll still body guard him. Yeah Yeah, so it's a really interesting combo like Of pieces that you can still bring to the table So it's um and as as allies that like that's a nice little like I appreciate the pointing Like the points where they are because that makes that a very real possibility Yeah That's a good point. So kudos design team and and testers Uh orc rune masters 125 oric rune smiter is 135 Again very similar stats, but six wounds on the rune master five wounds on the rune smiter I love that rune master Yeah, and I assume we all love the same thing about the rune master Uh Well, which is like all fresh. He's he's good He's he's actually good Because he gets all the prayers which it which solves the problem you mentioned earlier, right? Because the prayers are actually quite a versatile tool and suddenly getting all of them So you like you can still only pray once because you can only chant once. That's just a generic rule But it then gives you the right tool for the right job at the right moment Yep Yep And then, you know wise counsel At the start of your hero phase if your general is within three inches Of any friendly oric rune masters you receive one command point, which by the way, if he is your general then he's always within Three inches of himself. Yeah And so you just get a bonus command point if you make him your general Which is which is an interesting thing Especially because remember this is the guy who can double strike runes Yeah, right, right or explode into an endless spell or Your choice Your choice I made tom slap his forehead. That was mission accomplished. Yeah, I mean the reality is like I generally prefer abilities that don't force me to lose strategic key pieces in order to actually see real But it is a hot swap. It's a hot potatoes. You know, it trains you Look for getting one model for one model tom. What's the difference? Okay, exactly Freaking models on top of models, man. I hear this. This is your your standard forge attendant as well Yep So you're gonna like you want one of these guys in almost every army because they're gonna stand by your forge And they're a great carrier by the way of that brazier Because they're gonna be sitting in that back field in that double range Just push that that that invocation way out there What by the way what I don't know because we never ruled on like what it means for something to be a range Uh, they their double range may actually make let you shoot 48 inches on the shooter spell too I thought they effect you that but maybe that effect you disappeared because it did it disappeared in the last one And so like you may be able to get a 48 inch shot off of so like it that that brazier may actually work for all The invocations in different ways very well. Cool. Give you a last cannon and age of sigmar. Yeah, sure. Absolutely We I mean clearly they'll probably faq at the same way again So I wouldn't bank on it But it it'll it moves the question and then the rune smiter is still the rune smiter He's doing what you think he's doing which is magma tunnelling like that's why you took this guy in the army Um, he is still a priest. He could still have cursed. He can't curse when he pops But he could if he lives or you double turn he could then move forward and curse I mean, yeah, you're gonna take curse on him as your secondary prayer He still couldn't even on the devil. Sorry. He couldn't move up because he because it's in the here Like no, but what you can do is you can set up in such a way that hopefully when on the charge They pile in into your mind. There we go. Yes, correct. That's said when it rolls back to your turn you can curse him Yeah, there we go Okay, um, yeah, he's fine. I mean he's a tunneller.  That's why you have him in lists It's not it's not a great mystery Right, like you're an army of four inch moving people and this gives you an ambush So yeah, and like to be fair like I actually like him tunnelling Uh dual axe volkites Like that's a really interesting pair to me like before His he I would I would I would pair him with oryx shooters Like 10 oryx shooters to pop up and shoot something off the table That's not possible anymore. No, so um, I like him as a like a volkite delivery system and actually like I started with 10 volkite Double axe guys for 170. I I'm really hot on 20 for 340 even though like all of them aren't going to get into combat They're just not that's so much meat.  I don't know. Um, sure. Yeah All right Yeah, I mean if you pull your casualties cleverly, right? Okay, so now we get to our totem team team totem So the flame keeper and the battle smith. I love how these are just divided into pairs all these heroes, right? It's just like Just all these heroes Um, the flame keeper is our new guy uh Doug Is this the best looking fire slayer? The flame keeper it it is the closed helmet is um It's doing a lot of work, right? Yeah, it's carrying the faction yeah I mean it's It's literally the rune smiter He that closed helmet makes all the difference my friend Yeah, in a world of everyone wearing the same loincloth a helmet is a Way to stand out I I understand that I hear that but like he literally has a flaming latch axe Yep And is holding something in the air Uh, he does have a triple mohawk, which does set him apart I I would never notice that I would notice the face mask Like we got the man in the iron mask over here. Okay. I look at faces You know like because that's what humans are supposed to do. All right so, uh, this is the new guy obviously that came with uh was introduced in the box set and You know, I mean the key with him is As things as your troops die He builds up a bonus and then he can pass out that bonus for You know stuff Yeah, okay, which is most often going to manifest as plus one to damage for their melee weapons Yeah Yeah I mean dug, you know, you mentioned earlier About the like part of the joke of getting the the infernoff for the guy was it's like there is something to be said For having like a refund like a rebate Right on your on your purchase and this guy gives you a rebate on your purchases of your troops Right. Oh, you lost some things but here's here's a rebate It it does but it it's each time a friendly fireslayer So what what it's 12 wounds worth of dudes have to die before you get to do this Uh 10 Because you start with the dice at one base. Oh, that's right. Yes. Okay. Uh, and so yeah So you lose five dice the key is is you have to lose five guys So it's half of a Volkite unit Right. Okay Because that's what you want. You don't want to lose hergar berserkers. Of course. Yeah, right So you're like the key is is you're trying to sacrifice Volkites or potentially you could be using This is something we haven't talked about you could be using um Oryx's screens Yes Um, and if they're your screens, they're gonna die easily and charge this guy up Sure. Okay. I mean I like him. I I I love the idea of um Consolation prizes, you know, like play the corn. Yeah, absolutely. That's their entire allegiance ability, but uh, this is a cool little thing to inject especially if you're doing Not hermdar, but whatever like whatever you want to focus on large blocks of infantry Oh, yeah, I was not Volkite, Volkite or whatever the Volkite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's us again Yeah, I agree. I think he's best in like Volkite where you have these big blocks of infantry I will also state in my Volkite list. Sure. I will also state that um Grimnier's resolve isn't terrible Okay Um as one of your other options like the plus one damage clearly stands out as being truly amazing, of course But Grimnier's resolve where if that unit if the unit you you give this buff to which by the way that happens at the start of the Combat phase Yeah, you could pull a unit into combat with it. Correct. Yep. They can suddenly charge Which is interesting because it's at the start of the combat phase not your combat phase, right So an enemy like consider the world where an enemy charges you And but they charged your they did charge your chaff or something or whatever, right? And then you can suddenly say, okay. Hey these hearth guard over here Now you're in right like off turn response charging as we saw with Uh as we see with ironsons and as we see with um Um Like anything of it. Yeah big guy. What did you say his name? Glocken Glocken. Thank you. Yes. Good lord. Sorry. It's it's getting late. Um It's really powerful. It's super powerful because it turns fights where you would be losing into fights where you're winning It also if used on your turn can dodge things like unleash hell Yep. Yeah because you're charging in the combat phase not the charge phase hence they can't unleash on you So like any off phase charging is a really powerful ability So don't sleep on that one that one has the most like I like it that there's two different abilities One is just straight power Like hey, guess what bonus damage is super good Yeah, right But the other one is like this really strong tactical piece and it does play to that toolbox capability you were talking about tom Right. Well, if you've got these tools you use them at the right time you punch above your weight Well, no, like let me present another possibility. So grim near is wrath That's that's my fave of these the not the damage one, but yeah Yeah, which is like they they can fight basically they can frenzy fight, you know before they're removed Um, it's really interesting to me on polax hearth card Sure. Mm-hmm. The polax don't need the plus one damage characteristic. They're wanting mortals Right. Yep Um, and so that actually lets you get it, you know, like if you get into something that's meaty that's going to pick up models This lets you say it doesn't matter if you're picking up models. I'm coming in yep Okay, cool Uh, and then finally the battle smith Um, the battle smith is, you know, mr. Ward save guy Friendly firesay his units wholly within 12 have a ward of six up Okay In addition once for battle on your hero phase you can pick one friendly unit on the battlefield with this ability to plant its icon If you do so until the start of your next hero phase friendly firesay units wholly within 12 inches Of that unit have a ward of five up instead of six up And importantly he the battle smith Has so he's mr. Ward save like we get it. It's weaker than it was and i'm glad about that I don't like what's possible to save now. He's giving it to Six out four Yeah, sure, but Depending on how your what your units are running you may or the ruin you've struck you may already have this ability, right? That's the He can sometimes nonbow with other elements of this army But the funny part about him is that he needs an immediate FAQ I love it. I mean, I don't know if it needs to be immediate but go on Because as barred of the lodge, uh, if this unit issues the rally command You can return one slain model to the unit that receives the command for each four plus instead of each six What's missing The word fire slayers Looks great. I know. I know rally dragons back This is how we get games workshop to do stuff. We say hey, you can't change that until you release the flame keeper as its own kit separately rather It'll buy us a couple months of a year No, I mean what I'll say is this I I agree that you should not be able to rally dragons and Yeah, uh, other crazy units back and full manators and every other crazy thing in stonecast. Yes. Yeah I want to suggest that I think that this should be dewarden Keyworded. No, I would love that and not fire slayer keyword Honestly, tom, I would accept dewarden just fine Although I truly truly truly hate that world We would live in because what it would mean is probably A lot of iron drakes suddenly popping back into existence every round since those idiots never died Maybe I mean like yes I I think that it like it adds an interesting utility for the army like it speaks to something else greater that's happening Yeah, right and and the command trait did that as well Like I would love to be able to include one of these guys in my baroque ring army I think Like and and I think that that you know that speaks to that You know, they you still don't get the word say for everybody, but he could rally and I I love that I love that possibility. So I am hopeful. I'm I don't know that's gonna happen, but I am hopeful that they might consider um doing dewarden keyword instead of Instead of a fire slayer specifically, yeah, yeah, but it'll probably be fire slayers. Okay. I mean, you're right. You're right That's the conservative way to go about it. Yeah, sure. All right. Now. Let's talk about our uh, our slayer team so we went from uh, the sort of the the sort of runes The the the sort of general team to totem team to totem team to slayer team. Okay missile team. Yes Yes, so the grim rath berserker and the doom seeker We've talked a bunch about the grim rath berserker again You look at his basic profile four attacks Three threes neg two two damage it doesn't feel that impressive But when you realize that at the end of the combat phase if this unit's within three inches of an enemy unit And has fought no more than once on a two up he can fight again And if he's killed and he's fought no more than once he can fight before he's removed from play In other words, he's more or less always fighting twice is the idea And there's a million ways to ramp him up as we've talked about already and he's not a leader He's just a hero and he's 105 points He's great. He has his own special allegiance ability. Love him. Why does there are some armies? There are some armies that will run 10 of him. Yes I I repeat my question. So the grim rath berserker is 105 the doom seeker is 85 Why does the doom seeker exist? There are hyper corner cases where the doom seeker does more damage Okay, sure. I'm gonna say no I'm gonna I don't disagree that like that is mathematically possible what you've construed, but I agree with Doug Yes, no, I agree. It's just it is not like I just I'm never going to take the doom I'm still not going to take the doom seeker. He exists because he was in the silver tower box set And yeah, and they turned him into a clamshell and so they wanted to keep a place for him on the mantle Um, but the reality is is that he's just not that good, which is sad because I have like 12 of that model, so They were They're both grim rath berserkers And it's just like same stats one one more scroll These are just two different models that are both grim rath berserkers.  So it's a grim rath that has the same profile. Sure Does that make sense? Like it has the the split profiles um Because I think that like the split profiles even though like It's not as good in some ways. It's also better. Like it receives a certain buffs better and stuff like that I The dooms figure the seeker should have the grim rath keyword Yeah, I just do not understand why this unit exists No, I would love him if he Not not at the retinue ability But if he could like pick another like up to five man unit of fire slayers pick an enemy And then you're all really good at killing that like make him a different kind of missile But as he is he just doesn't do anything unique or interesting the grim rath berserker is way better, right? Yeah, all right. Let's talk units Uh, we're finally to the troops That's not going to be the longest section because there's only four of them three of them technically three of them Uh, all right. Well, there's four of course goals. Uh, we're a curse guard. I'll leave your lies. There are three units I I think they're they're like they do do a good job of making them feel very separate It's actually some of the most separate things the game is the two are in the army by that logic tom There's only two units in all the flesh eater courts It's yeah everything's internal kit bash Uh, all right or a curse guard. These are your shooters. Okay They have the magnpikes. It's their shooty weapon They make two attacks at an 18 inch range on fours threes neg one one And every unmodified six to hit reduces the movement of their target by one inch To a maximum of half. That's their thing. That's what they do. Can I they can be a retinue? They are 170 points. Would you like to now compare them? No, no, they're 125 points. Oh, sorry What I say, I are sorry. They're 125 points. Yeah, I apologize Yeah, would you like to now compare them to bliss barbs? I mean Sure, bliss barbs are the closest things In comparison with them And when you do like a like a point per attack ratio bliss barbs are actually more offensive Than the root the auric hearth guard are like so if you let me let's do it this way If you take 10 auric hearth guard for 250 points 10 bliss barbs at 170 are going to be doing more damage and be more mobile I they're going to be more mobile. I do not think they do more damage 10 auric hearth guard make uh 20 20 shot 21 shots Sure, 10 bliss barbs make 21 shots. Right. They're both on force The same profile. It's the same profile Yeah, yeah, like that's the point is they're doing the same damage as a unit that is 80 points cheaper and they have worse mobility They do yes And they have one better save and two better bravery. I guess I'll give them that It's not nothing, but sure and they may end double the wounds Sure, and they end double the wounds. And so the problem is small difference I understand that but these guys aren't fulfilling an actual role and that's the problem Sure, okay Because these like this unit is not like it's supposed to be a shooty unit But it's actually not good damage and it's terrible on the unleash hell Because of the base four to hit which goes goes to fives The one function that this unit used to have it used to have two functions. Let's say that It used to bodyguard for heroes any hero. So you could protect your uh, your battle smiths. You could protect your priests You can't do that now, right? Um And but more importantly, I would still take this unit if they did double damage against monsters, which they used to Um, and now they don't and so they actually like the problem is is they do poor range damage And in fact, I would rather take Five thunderers as an ally at 135 points Then take five of these guys Because those thunders are going to have better damage the same wounds in better safe Yeah, I mean, I I think you'd take I don't know I I I'd probably take iron drakes. Is my honest answer Well at 170 for 10 maybe um like what I would say is this because the problem is is their shooting actually Is the same as these guys when they move. It's better when they don't move So these guys actually have better shooting than iron drakes if you're moving Um, I understand that but like you still have the ability to give them the necessary rend and they don't need to move very far Like iron drakes are gonna move to a point in this army because you're not gonna bridge them or something Like you normally would But after that, they're good. You could arcane helmet bridge, but yes, um I mean, what I would say is that you can't take an endless spell off of the arcane town Oh, can't you really because you don't you don't indicate the order of list building Interesting. It's why giants can't technically take endless spells even though people do it in their lists all the time Interesting. I did not realize that Um, so the the other critique that I have is that so the normally the original thing I would do with oracle or hearthguard is I would do like 10 of them In a with the rune smiter and I would deep strike and shoot And you know as like a distraction piece um, but the reality is is that's 300 and um, what's that 135 50, it's 385 points For something that's literally going to just going to explode with any when anything touches it, right? Because it's like 10 20 wounds on a phylobe safe. What's interesting is that um for less points You can take a frigate And five thunders Have better shooting in deep strike every round sure So like the one thing And still fit within the allies and be cheaper than then this one this one off Deep strike that can't reposition every turn Yeah, and so one of my critiques ultimately is that this like they just don't fulfill the purpose that they need to Which is artillery They're actually much closer in points to like raw damage and range to iron guts Than any other unit in the game You don't mean iron cuts. You mean our iron, uh lead belchers. Sorry. There you go. They're closer to lead belcher Just say if they were all good, so we'd all be sick of their phrases No, yeah, you're right. Uh, no, they're let they're lead belchers, which aren't just aren't good artillery units Sure, right like they they do some but but that's what they're closest to at their points and all that and so Like if people want to point to these guys and say that they're a good artillery, they're just not No, there is better pound for pound every day of the week. You're getting better artillery from Uh, your allies Yeah, my spell is better artillery than them Well, let's move on to a happier So like earth guard berserkers. Okay. It's really hard to take. Let me just say on the orcs At the end of the day There's just not really a reason to take them Yeah, that's fine Let's talk about zerkers. Okay, because if you liked earth guard berserkers before You probably still like earth guard berserkers now Because job was a good and I guess they decided this scroll was just fine Uh, yes and no they reduced the range From like having a unit or a hero within eight inches to holy within nine, which is a huge change What this means is that you can't deep strike with earth guard berserkers anymore and maintain your ward safe Which is huge Which is huge because otherwise they and the hero have to get into the charge. Yep The the rune spider It's a crazy powerful ability.  Yeah. Yeah It's funny because there was a story where like one of the introductions of sig vaul in the stories He's just killing earth guard berserkers in He's just like I remember that one. I read that every every swing is killing one and mathematically That's accurate because he shears off their entire save and ignores their ward and they're as average damage as one of them So Um, so that's funny how narratively accurate that is Mm-hmm And they still could do mortals through the pole axes or they can have, you know, rend and multi damage through the products so Good unit and they can double tap with that rune to do mortal wounds on the Wound right on the wound roll. Yeah. Yeah, because this is a hit. Okay, because this is a hit. Yeah, exactly So, yeah, if you've got like the flame strike poleaxe and you spark your rune of searing in the attacks carry through So it's in addition start. Yes. Yeah, no, it's great Because what that means is if you spark the the searing rune, right? So you but let's just let's just keep this super simple and just use five of these guys because that's what you buy These dudes it right you buy these guys and in five of them for 160 points Cool So the units make an 11 attacks, right? Yeah Okay, so With that their poleaxes they make 11 attacks Theoretically you get about two mortals out of that and keep going and then you know two sixes Yeah Yeah, which is four mortals. Sorry. You're right. Yes. Absolutely right. Yeah, because it is two I'm sorry, which is four mortals out of yes two successes. Thank you, Tom. Good good clarification, right? Um, assuming you're still on threes to hit and you haven't pushed it in any way, right? You'll fall to about seven or eight hits. That's pretty average somewhere in that range Meaning you'll then get one more maybe two more mortals on the wound roll off of the rune So you're getting, you know, five to six mortal wounds on top of the the normal whatever else they get five So it's good Okay, yeah, I like zerkers are meant to be the anvil And when you run that math by the way on the poleaxes versus broad axes, it's about the same Sure, it very much depends on like what you're playing into what you expect to see army to army different ones will do differently Yeah, there's a reason to take both is my point. Yeah, I agree All right, let's talk about the great volkite divide Because now we officially have two separate scrolls. There has been a schism In the volkites. They've splintered off The the bladed slingshield berserkers they went to the door of the church. They nailed up their 95 theses on why Bladed slingshields are better and the true word of uh, grim near And uh, and the other ones were like, no, we're not we're not with that. There was a great divide Did you did you notice the wording change? on the slingshield berserkers Uh The uh The fact that you don't have to be within the range anymore for the slingshield.  These guys are 10 for 170 by the way, which is a good deal.  Yeah, so 480 for 30 of them And you make a charge you're you're gonna if one guy ends within you know within an inch of I well like a five wound hero you can throw all 30 shields. They went back to the old crazy Super You know shield throwing version Yep, I love it. So you can still get your five mortals Mathematically average on the on the charge. Yes Which is funny So obviously these guys are meant to play two different roles, right clearly in their head. That's what they were thinking, right?  I don't care Their role is meant to be the hammer the berserkers are meant to be more of an anvil It's the easiest way I can say it or at least a tougher. Maybe it's more like an attrition Uh Anvil or hammer or something like that. I don't know that the sling shields have a weird role I'm not sure I totally know what it is, but they're a very different unit. I'll say that Yeah, they're more independent operator objective. They're they are your they are your deck chair setters. Yep That's okay. I like that. That's that's good. That's good, Tom Yeah, so the trick with the handaxe guys is obviously they're two attacks base They go to three attacks on the charge Right, and we talked about we built out some units of these earlier, right where we talk about if you're going hard Volkite, which is a doable strategy. I think then you're going to be in like Vostar You're going to be where they're on twos and twos when they charge with the threes threes you're going to have the The guy along who can give them an extra damage or make them charge off phase or whatever And then obviously both these units still have their berserk fury where they can once per battle fight even if they die They have death frenzy. Yep Yeah, so the difference is is that like they actually created two anvils into Like offensive units Yes Yeah, neither of these are true anvils neither the slingshields nor the hearth guard are like True anvils, but they both perform better on the kind of sit and like The hearth guard really just want to sit still the berserkers want to like hang back and then kind of Get and jump into the mix closely Well slingshields don't really slingshields just want to sit on an objective and they want you to leave them alone Sure Right, of course Charge late game where there are five mortal wounds really or not five more I'm sorry that the unit 30 would be insane as a deck chair sitter Where there are a couple mortal wounds can matter. That's what I'm trying to say Well, and yes, and like there are going to be 20 wounds 10 dudes as 20 wounds on a four up save sitting on an objective Like so those guys are tough to shift, right? Just because they can all out defend themselves And like if you like let's say you put the runic wall near them, you can give them a ward save So they're still independent operating and they don't need hero support. Yeah There are a few ways to get a ward save for them in this Yes, yeah And so I like I think that there's a real difference like wherever the main heat is that's where you want to have your hearth card And then you're going to throw these the slingshield guys on other objectives Or I think there's also a case to be made to use these guys as your chaft lines that you move forward.  Yeah, um, and then you retreat them out And rally them back up like I think that like I think you're getting your your your guy looking for death Yes, yes, it's your rune scavenger. So he's charging his battery. Yes So I think that there are some different functions, right? Like I think there are some different functions that these different things play What you don't have in the army at all is mobility You have zero mobility units. You have zero true artillery units, right? All right, let's let's end off here on endless spells and the pizza oven and then we'll call it a night Uh, so the molten infernoth Uh Summon with a prayer that has an answer value of four and a range of 12 inches Remember if you do happen to take that extra magic item that we talked about you can double that to 24 Fans are set up the holy the invocation holy within range and visible to the chanter More than one inch from all models terrain features and other invocations and endless spells His ability is burning tide after this invocation is set up The commanding player can immediately move it up to 2d 6 inches In addition at the start of each of their subsequent hero phases if this invocation is still in the battlefield The commanding player can move it up to 6 inches. So that's its move speed is 2d 6 And erupting inferno after this invocation has moved the commanding player rolls 12 dice for each unit Within three inches of it for each six that unit suffers one wound If the role to determine how far this invocation moved in this phase was a double That unit suffers d3 mortal wounds for each six instead of one And at the end of the phase the invocation is removed So like like we've seen the invocations self-remove if they pop off into their big effect Yes, yeah, and you don't have to worry about hitting your own people. It doesn't burden them No, I like I like the guy like I've tried he's tough to include 70 points. Um, you can get him for free with a certain I will convince you of this 70 points or zero points Tom just said um it's But I like I'll say this. I like him. I don't like the fact of having to potentially roll 72 dice Sure. Yeah, it's he makes you roll a lot of dice Because you roll 12 per unit. Yep within three, which uh, he has a real big base by the way He's on a decent size base. Yeah He's a boy He is a thick boy So there is a sense in which like even like even if you can move over in invocations by the way Um getting over this guy and not being on his base is really kind of tough Sure. Um, and so there's a very like if you back him up and put your models behind him You can functionally make him impassable because they can't actually Like get to your guys and can't charge Sure Depending on how the terrain and other things work speaking of blocking movement Let's talk about the rudic firewall.  I'm so glad that's back. I was thinking that was missing from the game um So roaring rune fire models cannot move across or through this invocation unless they have the excuse me magma drawth keyword or can fly Can sons of bad men walk over these it's a good question They're rule says yes. This rule says no FAQ says who knows their their rules says they can move over models their rule doesn't say they ignore other rules I understand that but if they're ignoring this then they're ignoring the rules on this too No, they're ignoring the physical model. They're not ignoring the rules on the wash bowl I get it. I get where you're coming from again. The FAQ will say for sure Um, and then awaken runes at the start of each phase the commanding player can pick one friendly fireslayers unit Holy within 12 this invocation to draw upon its power if they do so the commanding player rules die on one through five They have a ward of six up till the end of that phase on a six that unit has a ward of four up until the end of that phase And this invocation is removed from play You know why I hate this I hate this because it's at the start of each phase and I've got to remember now at the start of Stupid phase to go wait you don't hold on you don't You don't if you don't want it to risk it leaving You just be like nah because it says you may do you you may pick sure you can pick you can't pick So in general like I'm not saying I would actually roll in every battle shock and movement and phase like that I'm saying I've got to remember to do it in the phase is where I wanted to do it. Yeah, sure And that's a lot of phases to roll through and both players turns like okay this unit. Oh, it's fine six up. Okay next And then we it's like I mean do we go to shooting hold on hold on wait. Hold on back it up It's your shooting. That's why I'm a big fan of tom's idea of just get the Thing that lets you double the range. It's 36 senses. Just chuck it forward.  Sorry, right? Okay Go page go page. Go. There we go. All right. The czar czar Gron flame spitter. Oh boy the name on this guy Uh This invocation is summoned with a prayer that has an answer value of three and a range of six inches. So Okay But I mean it has a super long range and if that also doubles then you really don't care Um, this is truly becomes the closest thing you have to artillery Uh, but you set up holy within range more than one inch from everything blah blah blah At the start of the commanding player shooting phase If there are any friendly fire slayers priests within six inches of this invocation The commanding player can pick one enemy unit within 24 inches of this invocation and roll 12 dice Add one to the roll if the unit has 10 or more models and two if they have 20 or more models So rarely will that ever happen in the current meta, but it's cool For each six plus that unit suffers one mortal wound if we go back into a I'll point out by the way That the flame spitter is 55. He's cheaper like the the firewall is they're both 55 points If we did end up back in a horde meta, this actually isn't a terrible invocation at all It does real damage and it's funny. It does more damage on average than an actual Five man of uh orcs. Yeah, Tonya is better artillery. Yeah On average does two mortals per shooting. Yeah Um, I mean and again if we end up in a world where you start seeing a lot more 10 and 20 man units You're going to get a lot more Mortals out of it, right? Like the closer you push to that magic six mortals is nice Woe to you Uh What are they uh luben f right? Yeah eat it sentinels.  No sure if that works. Yes Uh, and then finally the mat, which I don't think it does the magmaic battle forge The your everybody loves the pizza oven at the start of your hero phase So it's impassable. It's the thing that gets set up at your terrain and follows terrain rules blah blah blah Start of your hero phase you can pick one friendly fireslayers priest within six inches To control the magmaic energies if you do so you add one to chanting rolls for friendly fireslayers priests Within 18 inches of this terrain feature. So nice big range Nice plus one to chanting rolls everything you would want Um, it's great, uh, especially if you did take the item that lets you re-roll for invocations Yep, because now you're plus one and re-rolling which is super good It means you stand a you're there summon your dudes There's four ways by the way to get a six up word say Yep, oh, yeah, you're right. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah, because you could pop the you could pop the pizza oven Yep, yeah And of course you could still blow the oven Uh once for battle at the start of your hero phase instead of using this train features molten blessing You can pick one friendly fireslayers priest and basically blow the whole thing up And if you do so, um If you do so until the start of your next hero phase friendly fireslayers units on the battlefield have a ward of six up But you can no longer use molten blessing. It's done. You burnt out the energy so You have two rounds of full army six upwards Sure. Yeah, yeah between the between striking the rune and spending forge. Yeah, so what I'll say is this and I've you know I've said this in other forums. I'll say it here now This get this army is going to be dependent upon how well you layer once per game abilities. Sure Are you triggering all the things you need to trigger in the right phases in the right order? If you are you're going to do well if you're not you're not going to do well Yeah, and there's a lot it's not just the runes like we mentioned and this But it's you know a lot of the good artifacts that we talked about have that some of the abilities on the scrolls are like that Right and your grim wrath oaths.  Yep Absolutely I completely agree with you tom that there is a lot of once per battle Do this thing and if you do that thing when the timing is correct This army will be very powerful if you do it when it's if you if you pop that night Yeah, you're you know, then you lose Vin Diesel gets you. That's what happens Uh, all right dug any final thoughts you want to share on fire slayers before we call it a night No, no, um, I I like them, um some of the I think it'll be one of those things that it's a rewarding book to get really good at Just like you guys were talking about as far as remembering things and like I think that will feel very good And we combine that with if you are a more narrative player the path of glory stuff where you're getting practice games in pretty regularly That's terrific, um What I liked about her overall was like I felt like More so than the last book I can actually see an interesting list where you focus on the prayers and the priests I didn't get that sense before I was I just saw a lot of stuff about hearthgard So as far as like taking a faction and just fleshing it out Cutting the fat and letting you explore all the things that are in its very limited toolbox I think it's a win. It's not a powerhouse, but it's uh, not trying to be Yeah, no, I I think it's one of the better bad like honest answer I think it's one of the better battle talents we've gotten in 3.0 and and Can we just acknowledge that they fixed one of the worst play experiences in the game?  Yeah, like Wait while still keeping that ability in an interesting way with a good opportunity cost Like it not the fight twice, but the fight first, right? Like it was a design masterpiece With regard to like finding the right golden middle, you know, the right perfect temperature porridge um Like it's not and it's not a super broken battle tone Like it's not going to suddenly come out and start taking events But i'll say it can take events event sure. I think it'll give a good game and this is again I mean, I can't say it enough This is how battle tomes should be written because I agree with what you said Doug There's actually different like a lot of the stuff you might not have explored before In battle what might as well have been called battle tome hearth guard berserker Yeah, you actually can't explore now Right, there's actually reasons to have these other units in your list now. It's not perfect You know, I do think there's a challenge with oryx But between building in with other dwarf stuff Beyond like other dordan stuff between the fact that volkites have an interesting role now between having like killer magma droths Like there's still a lot more Stuff options going on here. That's why it was like my number one bullet like is still good options Definitely more than you had before I wish this is kind of the level we'd hit at battle tomes I I agree I mean the reality is this like I have I will have a pretty robust night haunt army When I get done here in a week um And there's a very high likelihood that I will shelf that army and finish up and play fireflyers for the next six months Sure, I mean just because like it's an army that I love, you know, it's in my wheelhouse My have almost everything painted, you know, like, you know, there's another 15 to 20 models I didn't want to paint but Like it look it's fun.  I I mean that's that's I think the best praise we can get a successful battle tone A good solid mid-tier army with both options I think you can explore both for competitive play and narrative play like yeah Thumbs up for me The army doesn't interest me still. I have no interest in the aesthetics of these naked baby dwarfs, but I'm glad that they made a good book Yeah, right.  No, I don't I don't I honestly don't like them that much Um, maybe if I found like a funny alternate sculpt, but anyways Thank you so much everybody for watching dug Absolute pleasure as always. Thank you. Thank you so much. Uh, yeah It is always a great time when two plus tough is in the house And you know, we're gonna force him in any way we can to come back again in the future Uh, it is like I've just I'll pester him and pester him and pester him until eventually he breaks down And we get him back on the show at some point you make it sound like that Like I was like, hey, I want to be on but I just get self-conscious about asking No reason at all dug. I would I would kick Tom out and replace him in a heartbeat. You'd be the new co-host Let me say just say that Uh, but at any rate, thank you all so much for watching We really do appreciate it Don't forget to hit that like don't forget the patreon's in effect now So if you're watching this, you want to support the channel and what we do You want to up your hobby game and focus on some more ways for individual teaching and join a cool discord community You can do that all the patreon information is down in the description Obviously hit that subscribe button if you haven't already if you've got questions or opinions or anything We talked about today and we didn't cover them comment that down below Really really appreciate everyone watching. Uh, can't wait to see everybody next week At adepticon for the in-person live Don't forget And uh, so it will be later. I'll repeat it again. The show will not be until like 11 p.m. Eastern So set your clocks accordingly, but thank you all so much for watching We'll see you next wednesday