Welcome back everyone. Day one wrap-up and insightful package here where we break down all the action. I'm John Furrier with Rob Stretchy, my co-host.  Day one in the books of a three day coverage with a beautiful view here in Vancouver. A lot going on. We started the segment off, the day off, saying open source is in trouble because it's winning and AI's coming. Can it handle the tornado of AI and the momentum that's going to come with that? Pretty much feeling good about that. It's not going to fall over. Yeah. I agree. I think what's been interesting is everybody's brought that they're considering it but they consider it just another tool that's going to be in their tool belt. And I think some of them were even talking about how it could augment some of these projects especially in things like documentation which I think it absolutely makes a total sense but it's not going to replace the people coding and participating. Yeah. I think one of the things I observed is people who are data-centric, data thinkers love the AI story. Everyone else is like, ah, it makes so many mistakes. It's not yet ready for prime time. Ed Warnacky had a good point. Ah, it's just so many mistakes that hallucinates. Nothing to see here moving on. Like, I don't know. I think, I mean, I'm bullish on AI. I think it's going to be a game changer. I think it will shake the industry but I don't think it's going to have any effect of toppling over the open source foundation or anything that would do the, I think it might change the nature of projects but I think the AI is going to be here and I think your observation is right. I mean, I think people don't yet know or they're just getting used to the idea. Yeah. And I think, again, we're early days with AI contributing to that. People have tried and have AI in their product set but looking at it, using it more broadly, be it going through and looking at all the open source repositories and making recommendations and things of that nature make a lot of sense but as Ed put it, it's kind of like a junior dev, an intern or something like that. I kind of put it a little bit smarter than that like you said during that because I look at it and it can code better than I can. It's been a long time but still. It's like a really good intern. It's a really good intern. It's more like a data, it's more like an entry level couple of years experience person who's smart. I think it adds a lot of value. I think the one smart point about that that they brought up all day today was the common theme from the experts was the human has to know the domain that they're using the AI in. It can't be a crutch, that's my word but that's pretty much paraphrasing. What's your reaction? Yeah, I think it was also in the same vein was talked about understanding the business problem and understanding the business domain not just the tech domain because the tech domain may get better quicker but still understanding what is your company's business and how they use that open source or how they use that code still needs to get there. All right, so we checked the box there. Open source is really going to be impacted by AI. It'll be a positive effect. Second observation, let's dig into platform engineering. Again, came up again. We had the CD Foundation with Fidelity Investments. Great segment. I think that brings up and it was consistent through some other segments. Platform engineering is a thing. It has been a thing. We've been talking about it for a long time. Started out the roots of Googles, SRE, Site Reliable Engineers. Obviously DevOps is infrastructure as code but what the Fidelity interview brought up and I want to get your thoughts on this from a deeper perspective is it brings up the nuance of platform engineering versus platform features in an application and that this idea that there's platform engineering is the new standard is kind of interesting but I think people might be seeing it. It's highly nuanced. Now my opinion is that it's platform engineering is the new IT meaning it's the organization that sets the standards of the new group and then applications have platform features with APIs and dependencies. So it's system thinking applications that have developers. So you got platform engineering, platform apps and then developers that code those apps and Fidelity said they had 4,000 apps. I mean 4,000. Yeah and all of these large companies have thousands and thousands of apps at this point and they have developers working on it. I think that when you start to look at to your point platform engineering being the new IT and having setting standards I think there's going to be that and we even got into it a little bit in that discussion about well you're taking some of the creativity where it seemed by you're taking some of the creativity away from the developers and I think that's going to be really one of the big pieces of stress in the system is standards and compliance and governance versus I give everybody they can go swipe a card and use a new service or swipe a card or download a new package or a new library and I think that also led into some of the S-bomb discussions that we had with the CD Foundation in that same discussion and later on with Ed. So to that point I think there's going to be a lot more stress in the system until this is all figured out but it is the new IT. Well I want to unpack that real quick double down and come back to you on that because if you double click on what you just said it's almost as if platform engineering is legit I agree and we've been covering it for a while as you know but I think it's the cloud's problem because the cloud's success breeds the next failure opportunity that needs to be solved which is cloud was successful but now they've created another set of problems that needs to be solved which is at scale the benefits of cloud creates the ability for anyone to just build an app that's in a platform. Amazon for example is a platform. So if I'm Fidelity I have to have a cloud team to manage anything that's going to be on Amazon on my company. So you have Amazon's a platform and Fidelity's a platform. So you have a platform and a platform so I think the cloud guys have to figure this out because this is the next gen cloud they will solve this problem. Yeah. Well this is I think and you guys have been discussing this on other cube events is that the repatriation and the movement of apps between clouds and from cloud to colo and regional cloud is real and I think that this stress that we'll see among these organizations trying to understand okay we have multiple platforms.  I said that on the podcast let's say a year the people who are talking about repatriation don't know what they're talking about because there's repatriation is taking stuff out of the cloud bring it on premise to say equinox whatever but then there's right sizing which is not repatriation if I have cloud success I'm going to fine tune it and make some on prem cloud operations setting up for say edge or multi cloud that's resizing and refactoring not displacing you're not running away from cloud cloud is not failing cloud is winning. Now there may be some hot spots like Nats that has a translation or things in the cloud that causes some platform inconsistencies that's just a state of the art where we are right now that's not a problem. No it's not a fatal flaw of cloud cloud is winning. It's not repatriation is when you want to get out of cloud. Repatriation isn't happening where I take everything out I think where it's happening and to your point it's a I take a certain aspect of my application or a set of services out that need to run either lower latencies or be co-located with some data I think that's where people I think also people are getting a little more gun shy and having a little burnout on subscription and I think CapEx in an economy like this looks pretty nice on the books. I want to ask you before we tie off the platform engineering, platform discussion, repatriation you brought this up earlier in some interviews today and also at KubeCon the complexity equation shifts. So again you move the complexity problem solving where the next bump is and that is next gen cloud as you mentioned. This is a huge issue what's your explain more about this complexity moving train if you will. Where is it right now? What's the complexity focus that you see with cloud and open source and this next gen environment? Yeah I think we saw it in spades today. I think when you see the overlap between different projects and how you're leaving the consumers to then tie those pieces together where they all have really great attributes to them but do you need them all? And in some cases yes you do because they're very complimentary. In some cases maybe you don't need them all. Maybe once we talk to the folks from Starburst and with Trino and you once using SQL but then you may be using Python over somewhere else and how do you know which projects to go and use and to integrate your data lakes and things of that nature. I think that's where the complexity up the stack really starts to pick up and I think that that's even before you're just talking about what's my platform and how do I keep going. I think they use cases and I got to drive that but also the test of solving complexity comes down to this. Did it reduce the complexity and did it make it simpler and easier? Yeah and I think that's a question. And I think that's somewhere where the open source foundations that are out there really have to key off on and I think really take a hard look at themselves and at their projects and understand the architecture and the stack that they're building out. Okay next item on the summary is ecosystems. The roles of them, their evolution as they progress to this next generation, open source, a lot more ecosystems. Ecosystems are the mode. Are they competing against each other? Is it a feature? Is it a bug? And also how do you monitor? What's the data to monitor them? This came up with Diane Moller in her new job, data to monitor the health and also to nurture ecosystems. I believe ecosystems are a good thing but is it a lock in? Is it going to cause people to compete more? Is that just natural? What's your take? Yeah I think that again the great people we've had on today all brought a little bit different from different companies that they have their split hats that they're wearing but when you start to look at the ecosystems it's invaluable because you need that investment in the ecosystems and they're really helping people to continue to contribute to these and I think where my big question was to Diane and I still have is ecosystem health versus contributions and consumption, the contributors that are at the end consumers and what percentage of the actual contributions are coming from those consumers to me is a big piece of it because if the consumers are actually contributing back I think they're not moats and I think you have a pretty thriving ecosystem in that and I think that to me is pretty key. I think we'll see, I think like I said when Diane was on I saw the global grid forum then the open grid forum basically dissolved because they didn't have that and it was more of a moat and competing moats that were trying to be brought forward and I think that's definitely some of the things that could drive people away from open source or not contributing. Yeah, and I think open source is a series of ecosystems that need to thread together and it's okay to be decoupled and cohesive within the end of themselves so thumbs up on ecosystems. No, I agree. Transitioning that to the real quick question you mentioned the chips up and down the stack open source is moving up and down the stack so yes, you can see ecosystems emerging, the ecosystem for hardware, IoT with risk five is a lot different than the DevOps CD Foundation but they still develop, they're still developers they're still building and so you have this new phenomenon of open source up and down from silicon to the app. Yeah, and I think that's where we're seeing a lot of interesting things with the different foundations and I think that some foundations do a better job than other foundations at understanding their stack or their portion of the stack but when you start to look at things like Apache where they have such a broad approach to what's in their foundation and you start to look at the contributions where 95% of the contributions of a particular project are all from a supporting company is that truly open source or not and what happens if that company goes away because they don't have product market fit. So the arm and intel, the two dominant players risk five was a great interview that highlighted that piece of course, we've been talking about silicon on chip Broadcom and our pod too, super apps, super compute, super cloud, super apps, super open source. And I think what was interesting in the risk five discussion was the concept that embracing of openness is really actually helping those companies that have proprietary to actually sell the proprietary in a better way and in a better light. We've got a great community angle. We had a great interview here. I was supposed to do, but I got bounced out because Lisa Marie took over for me. She did a great job with Liz Rice, Aisha and Josh. They did a preview of their panels. The first new format on the queue I thought that went great. So shout out to Lisa, Liz and Aisha and Josh. Thank you very much for hijacking the queue. I mean, being a cube host, appreciate it. Great stuff. Rob, final point that wrap up day one is that it was kind of a subtext to our conversation around AI and the stability of open source and all that action is the undertone of wealth creation, new venture creation, entrepreneurship, product development, because at the end of the day software is free and it's all great. It's winning, it's won. People are going to build. They're going to build stuff for public service, public support for their own hobbies. They're going to build it for their ventures or their companies. It's software, they're going to build something. So what's your take on the entrepreneurship, startup angle, what products, opportunities do you see? What's your thoughts on that? Yeah, I think that some of the discussions we had and some of the questions I still have sitting through some of these projects and understanding what they do that I've sat out on the floor in other rooms and sat there and asked myself, is this a product, a project, or just a feature? And I think it's the product market fit aspect of it and understanding why am I doing this and is it because I brought it here, I'm really smart and I want to contribute and I'm going to build a company around this longer term but I want other people to help me build the company and take some of that legal away or take some of that marketing away. And that's going to be my, I'm going to have a product led growth in the PLG movement and I think that people get, I think mistake product market fit with PLG far too often. I call it the Immaculate Conception. It never happens, right? The idea that you come in and create a product, except for one time, that was called Twitter and they could never change the product back and even Elon Musk can't even get it right. So Twitter was the only company that I know of in the history of my life that got it right out of the gate by accident on purpose and then they could never get it right, fix it or change it. But Manfred Moser from Starburst brought this up. He says he loves to come to open source because the collaboration, he ran the Java user group in the early days. He's an OG like us. If you're a product person, you bring something to open source, you're going to get collaboration. That's, I think the key is it's so hard, as you know, entrepreneur, you know how hard it's to get product market fit. It's extremely difficult. Product market fit can be accelerated only if you have better data and better collaboration. So I think this market is still robust for product opportunities given the shift to AI and given the shift to cloud native, given the shift of the security and AI. I think it's just great. Now the question is, where do you land? Right. Yeah, and I think that to me has always been one of those things that it's not just about the contributors that are actually contributing code to these projects. I think it's about the ecosystem around them from the foundations. If they have people who understand products and are product people and some of the foundations do a better job with this and basically helping people understand is this a smaller, you know, sub project of something else? Let's package you up into that and get that product market fit but understand that you're not, you can't be alone. You can't do this all yourself. And I think that that's, the interesting thing is going to be do they take a more product management approach to these projects going forward? You know, and I think this is a classic transition from old school R&D to tinkering in the garage. Entrepreneurship form is pretty much the same.  I think that's the magic of this open source and I said it earlier in the open was open source is very entrepreneurial but not in the classic MBA sense. It's not like, oh, start a business plan. They're builders and they're smart, right? So you've got builders, they're smart and they can see opportunity from a nerd's perspective, right? Now you have people to the equation. You got mentoring, you got access to potentially insights, hopefully like theCUBE, some of the things you're saying is really insightful like product market fit. Like they don't sit around here and talk about product market fit. They just talk about does it work? Does it solve a problem? And they go, whoa, that's interesting. I think it's very entrepreneurial. I think you can see a lot of product opportunities. The question is how will the business models progress? That's the question for tomorrow. How does the business models to change? We saw a dual license work girl around open source. Now you got, okay, I'm going to put a project in there, premium, premium. It's obviously booming. It's going to be a huge opportunity. Yeah, I agree. And I think some of the side conversations that are going on about, do you give away the software for free but own the control planes? Do you do it as a SaaS? I think there's all different ways to go about it. But I think that to me, I think we started and had this discussion earlier was around, is there going to be another red hat? Well, the final point we'll pick up tomorrow is companies funding the efforts. We heard Istio from Google, they dragged their feet a little bit too long. People were kind of, you know, miffed about that. So who's the heavy dropping the dollars in here? There's monetization needed. There is funding required. You got the big dogs like Google and Red Hats of the world out there and Amazon's here. Where's the funding? What's the responsibility of that contribution? So this is all evolving. Yeah, yeah, I think that was interesting. I mean, even with Meta joining OpenJS and that being announced during the keynote this morning, I think it has to be more of those types of people getting involved, a broader segment of companies. Well, I'll just leave a day one wrap up and you can comment on it if you want. But I think the big takeaway for me personally is the AI waves coming. I don't think there's going to be much of a toppling of open source at all. So I think we're in good shape there. They could be in trouble if they don't keep their eye on it. But the bigger issue is the power dynamic of the old model of open source, which is very foundation open source communities to now that open source is now the software industry collectively because proprietary software doesn't really exist as a dominant force. Open source is the software industry. So the industry dynamics includes entrepreneurs and the funding behind it, which is capital markets, the companies like Meta, Google and others and the developers. So the role of the big companies like Meta who leaked their AI, I mean, Rob, they leaked their AI, you kidding me? I doubt that will happen. The Google memo that was leaked, you're starting to see there could be a competitive strategy from the big companies to inject Kool-Aid into open source to revitalize as a steroid, as a growth act. What do you think about that? That's a very provocative conversation. I agree. I think it's going to be an excellent day too tomorrow when we get to talk to people and further go down this thread and understand how do we be successful and keep this going now that, like you said, open source is one, proprietary is dead. How do you get to that next level and who's going to be those contributors to that? And shout out to AWS for announcing an open sourcing cedar and some of their internal projects contributing back. And also they have the open software secure foundation, open SSF and Montmore. Again, day one, Rob, great, great commentary. Great to have you on theCUBE. Great views here, sitting here in Vancouver and beautiful weather. Great location, open source summit 2023. Wrapping up day one. I'm John Furrier, Rob Strecci. Thanks for watching.


So perhaps you joined me last time for a short video about the portrayal of race and slavery in the works of Adam Smith. Now I'd like to move over to the neoclassical economists and discuss race in the work of William Stanley Jevons. So Jevons along with Karl Manger and Leo Valras is one of the founders of the so-called marginal revolution with its associated marginal utility theory of value. Broadly speaking, the classical economists have a labor theory of value and the neoclassical economists have a marginal utility theory of value. But we're not talking about value theory today. No surprise that Jevons uses race in the phrase human race, and I don't think that's very interesting, so I won't read these quotes. Sometimes he looks like a textbook racist. For example, in this passage he says, A man of lower race, a negro for instance, enjoys possessions less and loathes labor more. His exertions therefore soon stop. A poor savage would be content to gather the almost gratuitous fruits of nature if they were sufficient to give sustenance. It is only physical want which drives him to exertion. The rich man in modern society is supplied apparently with all he can desire and yet he often labors unceasingly for more. Now I happen to be reading John Stuart Mills essay The Subjugation of Women and ran across this passage which I think nicely characterizes the attitude that we see in Jevons. John Stuart Mills is a classical economist. So here John Stuart Mills is pointing out that some people like Jevons understand as natural the behavior that people do because of the social circumstances they find themselves in. Mills says, Because a caught ear deeply in arrears to his landlord is not industrious. There are people who think that the Irish are naturally idle. I think this passage is nice because although he doesn't explicitly have Jevons in mind. Jevons is clearly an example of this tendency to ignore the immediate social circumstances of someone's behaviors and attribute their their behaviors to some kind of innate predisposition on their part. So we saw that Smith often used race just to mean a category of people like race of scholars and there are examples that seem like they might fit into this category in Jevons. For example, this one, the power of anticipation must have a large influence in economics for upon it is based all accumulation of stocks of commodity to be consumed at a future time. The class or race of men who have the most foresight will work most for the future. So now we think this might just be some component of people's character. But if we continue, it becomes clear that he doesn't mean it like Smith. In the same passage we get the untutored savage, like the child is wholly occupied with the pleasures and the troubles of the moment. The morrow is dimly felt. The limit of his horizon is but a few days off. The wants of a future year or of a lifetime are wholly unforeseen. But in a state of civilization, a vague though powerful feeling of the future is the main incentive to industry and saving. So it seems then that race doesn't mean just a class of people with a shared characteristic, but is instead at least tied here to the social economic system that characterizes a particular society. So is race biological in Jevons? There are examples that seem to suggest this. Here's one. Now, between the actual amount of feeling anticipated and that which is felt, there must be some natural relation, very variable, no doubt, according to circumstances, the intellectual standing of the race, or the character of the individual, and yet subject to some general laws of variation. By juxtaposing the intellectual standing of the race with the character of an individual, there's a strong suggestion here that this is a innate quality. It's referred to after all as natural. This implies a biological understanding of race. Nonetheless, I can't find a passage in Jevons where he's unambiguous that he thinks of race as an inherited biological characteristic. So overall, I'll conclude that Jevons is clearly a cultural chauvinist, seems to be a textbook racist, but by and large his racism is still pre-Darwinian, and that makes sense in terms of his dates. He would have already been mature and a working scholar when Darwin came out. Yeah, so that's race in Jevons.


So thank you so much for taking the time for this interview and first for those who didn't attend the interesting session today Please can you introduce yourselves and the the field of experience that you have? Okay, so my name is Patricia Sutherland. I'm the library manager at the College of the North Atlantic I'm Brett Williams. I'm the systems librarian at the College of the North Atlantic So first would like to of course we thank you so much for attending the ICT and education conference And your session was about 23 things that teachers can integrate in their education So you also labeled it as learning 2.0 So what is your definition of the term and how is it different from the conventional learning that we know? Well learning 2.0 is is another name for the for the program and Basically what it means is learning about web 2.0. They call web 2.0 the social web It involves learning about the tools that involve interaction on the website Collaboration creating content. It's a very different environment than when the internet first started Yeah web web 2.0 is about collaboration. It's about working group work There's a lot of technologies that enhance that like blogs or someone posts And then there are comments afterwards or wikis where multiple people can come together and create Something that's greater than any of them could have created by themselves And what's great about this program is that you need to use web 2.0 tools To complete the program to learn about that So as a teacher, why should I use web 2.0? What benefits would I get or will I give to my students? But really there's your students are using them anyway Your students are on the internet and they're using them and they may not be using them in a way that is helpful to their education or that Let's them learn what they should about Understanding how people put web 2.0 Websites together how people use them and for instance wikipedia If someone just accepts what someone wrote without understanding that many people have come together to create Then they don't really understand how How the process works, and I think you know the children of today have grown up from birth many of them with technology They expected they learned it. They're different. I think as teachers It's it's imperative that you keep the students engaged And you also prepare them for a knowledge economy and knowledge society and that knowledge economy and knowledge society involves Using these tools because they will be using them as they get older in further education and in the workplace So There is a debate whether Facebook and social media are beneficial Tools of education in schools. So are you with or against using them as educational tools? Well, you know Facebook everyone laughs and says it's the pictures of the kids and they're they're with their friends, but many of the really Progressive schools Libraries and and other institutions that that are concerned with education of children are going to where the children are and the kids Are befriending them and it's a nice way then to precisely be able to add a little more control Into the children's experience with web 2.0 Really when you ban Facebook That doesn't take away the fact that it exists and that the students are using it So being there Having if the students know that the teacher is there or that their parents are online and are watching what they do on Facebook then they are going to Perhaps be a little bit more careful or the teacher or the parent may be able to spot something that the student is doing and Correct it before it becomes a bigger issue And you know on top of it to the students they're used to interacting Like Facebook short text easy throw up a picture short This is how they're used to interacting and I think as Educators you can use that form that form of communication Mm-hmm like Facebook and make a presence and and the students So you mentioned that are more than three million Wikipedia pages in English being currently available So with Wikipedia being currently so heavily used do you think that can be a credible source of Educational information or it rests only as an opinion and not something we can rely on Well, we're librarians and and really we spend a lot of time teaching Authority and evaluating information on the internet and Wikipedia is a fabulous place to start. We always tell students before you do the project get a sense of your subject Mm-hmm, and Wikipedia is a great place to start read it No, don't don't put it in your bibliography or earn your reference list or or the quote from it because it is not It's an opinion piece as far as I'm concerned. It's not an authority Again, yeah Wikipedia is a beginning. It's it's a place to start and what it does is it gives you a quick overview just like looking at the encyclopedia Britannica or the world book encyclopedia gives you a quick overview, but no one no one even When I used a paper encyclopedia, you don't write your paper based on a paper encyclopedia You use it to start and then you move on from there So you mentioned regarding this topic you mentioned there is a comparison that has been taken place recently between encyclopedia britannica and wikipedia right on there it was um it was Written about written up about in in the magazine called nature And what they did is they looked at error rates in the encyclopedia britannica and wikipedia and they found there was no substantial difference Which is really quite fascinating. I believe that I'm reading a book recently Right now actually it's called drive and it's by this this man daniel pink who also wrote about how right brainers He's very much involved in that whole thomas freedman flat the world is flat idea And and it's interesting because wikipedia is probably the worst business model and if any one had ever You know put money or whatever on it when it first started they would have said there's no way that this will succeed It's run by volunteers Everything else and it has outshot Well, its rival at that time was encarded by by microsoft that had all the money You know, it's it's amazing Um what wikipedia is and there are a lot of very very smart people out there And they do it for free and they do it for fun The other thing about wikipedia is it doesn't have a page limit And which means you get some really funny things like page after page after page of articles about episodes of tv series But wikipedia also has a history of all the different edits that have been done So if you look at Excuse me if you look at a wikipedia page about a political figure You can see as people make edits over the course of that political figure's career How things have changed and how people How people view the person and there's since there's no page limit You don't have to cut all of that out with the encyclopedia britannica. That's invisible That's in experts heads in experts papers with wikipedia. All that history is right there in front of you Actually, you know, that's fascinating because that could be a new form of social sciences is looking at social analysis Yeah, that's fascinating. I didn't know that It's the advantage of a wiki Okay So mentioning wikis. Is it any different from blogging or are they just two representations of the same idea? Well, really when you get back to the very basics of the web the web is designed to be interconnected and Really the collaboration that you do on a wiki and the collaboration you do on a blog A lot of it is the same some of them run on the same technologies on the back on the back end Um, but a wiki is really The way that it looks at the beginning is that there is no author That there is a collaborative. It's a group effort. A blog is very clearly as one author Or a group of authors that write an article and then there are comments about it below A wiki may be the product of hundreds of people who have edited and added links and changed things around But a blog really contains standalone articles a blog is more like a journal A wiki is more like an encyclopedia Yeah so some people say that web 2.0 may kind of overtake or Illuminate the role of teachers and that students won't need any teachers in the future since they have all what they need In web 2.0. So what do you think of this idea? You know they say at the same about libraries that with the internet there would be no more books and libraries And if anything, I think there's we've seen now that there's probably increase in book buying and interest in books As there is in the internet the whole thing's going up Actually, I think the role of teachers now is more crucial than ever Because you need individuals who understand Information is there's a plethora of information out there now You need individuals who can understand it sift through it present the best help the students Sift through it and then also have that sound sort of pedagogical learning To design a curriculum that can enhance the learning process by both in the classroom And using the tools So I think just you know, the sky is not falling for educators I think they're probably going to be needed more than ever but the skills that they have will also have to change Yeah skills skills have changed there are things you need to know There are things that you need to change in the way the curriculum is developed But the basics things like is this a reliable source or not? It's the same as whether you're looking at a book in front of you or looking at a website What do you look at you look at who the author is Does had Has she Been a member of any associations does she publish a lot on this? Do I know any of the work of the authors? She's cited and if you look At that on a On a book you're going to do the same thing on a webpage Do I know the man who wrote this article does he participate in any in any associations? It's the same it's the same process in determining what's reliable information and what's not It's just in a little bit of a different form And actually they find now with the explosion of information on the internet and this this fabulous idea now that anyone can post and create content If anything that role of filtering and teaching how to filter is more important Than ever and again, I'm going to go back to thomas freedman and primarily because he was here And it was a fascinating lecture. I mean I just loved it You know and he said he said that that You know the internet does not come with a already being pre-approved sign on it It's just out there out there And it's up to us now to develop those skills to develop them in the children on how to responsibly ethically and with um critical thinking Take that information what's there and then be able to apply The the term that gets thrown around sometimes is curated content Which is it's a hot new thing which people who are experts gather together lists of things That they know about that are reliable sources Which librarians have been doing since the It's a new term for a very very old thing There it was papyrus now is you know, this invites, right? So I'm sure many of the teachers attended the session wanted to know How can they get their their schools on board now? They're really interested in rep to point out, but what can they do to ensure their schools join the wave? Again, it's just it's that being able to generate the enthusiasm um Make it non-threatening Because I think that you know originally you go I can't develop a wiki and then you think I can type I use words so I know it all those icons that they're mean. I know bold. I know this. I know that It's not so hard And this whole idea and I think that Brett you really you know, it was great to say if you make a mistake You can go back and you can undo if you if it just looks terrible you start again There's no cost to you and doing it other than your time Um, you know, it's just so it's getting away from making it threatening It's also taking you know committing to to spending your time learning this So I think that teachers have to understand or or have to come to You know to hopefully they will come to realize that the students Are soon going to overtake take us with education until we get on board and then they have to embrace this Yeah, just a lot of it is not being afraid to make a mistake And that's where the 23 things program is is useful because it's low pressure. It's not during it's not uh Hedagogical activity. It's not you're not involved in teaching. You're not involved with students This is you figuring it out with other teachers So you've got your peers with you and if you make a mistake If you don't understand it if you don't like it, it's not that big a deal For instance, I don't use youtube very much But I use rss. I read 600 blogs on my rss reader So you pick and choose what you like and that's totally okay So you mentioned that if I'm a teacher I wanted to encourage my fellow Colleagues to also embrace web 2.0. You mentioned about the incentivization or the rewards. So can you highlight on this part? Well, they just found that rewarding for success was Was um a good when they implemented this program that it really it really seemed to motivate Individuals now the rewards don't have to be big And you know, we're all adults, which also means that we're all pretty quite competitive usually Sometimes that that type of uh Motivation is good enough.  Well, maybe they can push their student They're a teacher on and say you got to get there miss you got to get there miss me about the pizza so it's You know, there's many ways that you could look at the idea of rewards But when they originally put this they found that rewards were important how you define rewards I think would be suitable for what is suitable for your institution um, if I remember correctly the Charlotte and mecklenburg counties they gave out an mp3 player to everyone who completed The 23 things program that they also there was another There was another college that used usb keys with the pre-printed with the name of the program on it so that people would remember So that people had a resource to go back to I mean they just look at their usb key They've got the the url to the website right there. That's that's that's one way that you can do it But the reward shouldn't be What motivates the individual to complete the program because that doesn't work Um, and that is that would be my only caveat in there like rewards are important, but That's if that's the only motivator then the learning won't take place Okay, so you mentioned really interesting things about the child versions of popular social networking sites like facebook So can you mention some of these sites because they're really interesting?  They're they're actually, you know, like they're gonna be my friend, right? They're friends on mushy monsters. The other monsters are friends, right? So it's Like this is the mini version of of social networking and facebook and and it just has become the norm Now, you know, we don't even think of these games as social networking But this is what they're doing because they can send mail to each other You know, they communicate it's just the baby version I don't know if you want to weigh in on that you might have I I don't know much my little ones are uh three and six months now So I don't really know too much about the a little the little kid version Well, my daughter is uh, going to be nine and certainly being through all of that and and they just keep You know, I mean, I don't know how many times I've had to sign or have started all This this this this, you know, and and it's and it's the latest thing and she'll come home from school and she'll say Everyone's on this. I have to you know, everyone's on this and then she goes and she meets all of her friends And he's all these other people. Yeah And it's just it's natural Yeah, not natural for me because I didn't grow up that way natural So children's way of thinking has has changed. Absolutely and the way children read You know the reading there's difference information knowledge the way that each is gathered in I think skimming Is really big look at sms-ing the texting and all the short forms that are used Not that kids don't don't write properly But there is you know, they understand too. When is it short form facebook? They can use other short forms. When do they need to write properly? Correct. When can they skim read entire texts? It's it's very different. These these children are very sophisticated A lot of studies have shown actually when they look at online gaming and things like this The skills that kids are using and they're they're looking at when they're called the millenniums The skills that are needed at the university level teamwork strategy, you know Collaboration all of these used to be taught a traditional way and now the kids are coming to school with these skills already They've learned it through online game We'll just just think about it. Um before the internet you're sitting there and you're thinking Who is who is the king of england in at the turn of the century?  I type in who's the king of england I get the answer immediately It's it's a Outer it's a total change in how fast we can get information Almost at the speed of thought Immediately available 24-7 So you mentioned that web 3.0 may be coming so let's see your take on on this term and how would it look like Well web 3.0 is uh, it's it's not a very well accepted term a lot of people are Calling the semantic web web 3.0 the semantic web is tagging Items on the web so videos audio files PDFs all of this with descriptive terms And with data about what this is so Say I have a video on the on the web What's it about? It's about the ICT coder conference. It's It's resolution is this it's topics are this it's uh Excuse me. It has it is this long all of that is encoded Inside the file itself and then using that information Computer systems can recommend To someone else so I'm involved in ICT in Australia And I Go into a website that has the semantic web enabled and what it does. I type in a query for Uh, 23 things and it pulls in all the information Into one place say I'm doing the query on my mobile phone It recognizes that this Piece of the internet isn't going to this pdf file won't appear on my phone, but the video will So it recognizes pulls the video and you can see the video immediately That's the idea of the semantic web Mm-hmm So thank you so much for this exciting a lovely interview and thank you so much again for joining us an ice ski education conference


The challenge of the Yukon King the swiftest strongest of Eskimo lead dogs Blazes the trail through storm and snow for Sergeant Preston as he meets the challenge of the Yukon Sergeant Preston was typical of the small band of Northwest mounted police who preserved law and order in the Yukon during the gold rush of 98. That was the year that brought over 50,000 men swarming into the Klondike region and the greed for gold led to frequent violence and bloodshed. But in spite of the odds against them the force preserved a splendid record in maintaining the right. The challenge of the north was answered and justice ruled triumphant. Driving ceaseless snow made the vast Yukon a blurred mass of whiteness. But even the fury of the storm could not obscure the natural protection of a group of huge rocks that shut out the merciless winds. It was there the two men crouched guns with an easy reach while they rubbed their hands together for warmth. You picked a fine day to do this job many. I ain't seen weather like this since I come to the Yukon. Listen Tom you know the reason we're here. I can't help it if Jim Glenn always drives into Melville City on Wednesdays can I? Rain, snow or shine don't make no difference to him. It'll have to be a plenty rich haul to be worth freezing to death. Glenn's carrying the finest lot of furs this side of the Great Divide. I know that for a fact. Well he's done his last bit of trapping. You seem coming yet many. I can't see far beyond these rocks. You ought to be alone. You know Tom I don't like the idea of doing away with Glenn. Ain't no other way to get our hands on them furs is there? No well and murder is the one thing we ain't done Tom. Only because we get what we wanted without it. Yeah the robberies were easy. Any coming yet? Yeah I think that's a slettle all there. It's too far away to be sure. Yeah wait a minute let me see. Ever since you had that touch of snow blindness you can't tell a man from a grizzly of 30 feet. I think he's coming many. Yeah we'll wait till he's alongside of these rocks. Then we'll open up all of them. That's the idea. Got your gun ready? Yeah. Well we just wait now and surprise Mr. Glenn. Make a right good time. He's got a good set of dogs. What are you grinning at? Jim Glenn racing like that to the bullet. This ain't no time for jokes Tom. Sometimes I get... Take it easy kid. There he comes now. Get ready. I did it. Come on Tom let's get those furs and get out of here. Watch out for that lead dog there Manny. He's loose. All right but I want to get these furs on the last sled. Look out Manny he's going to jump.  Oh let go of my hand. Nice shot Manny. Nice shot. That mutt tore my hand. Say he sure got you. Hey let me help you. I'll have to put a bandage on some kind or we'll get the town. It'll be a while before you'll be able to do much with this hand Manny. I'll take care of it when we get back to town. Come on Tom. The snow covered tracks almost as soon as they were made so Sergeant Preston heading for Melville City had no way of knowing that he was trailing a murdered man. But as they neared the rocks the great dog King sensed death in the air. What is it King? All right fellow you lead the way. My King there's nothing but snow. Nuzzling around this snow... King... There's a body here. So this is why you... It's Jim Glind. He must have been... But why? Shot through the heart. And his dog.  And I wonder you were excited boy. He's following tracks over those rocks. Oh now I begin to see. Tracks here haven't been covered by the snow. Shouldered by rocks. Those two men were standing here. They waited here till Jim Glind was practically in front of them before they fired. Jim didn't have a chance. If they waited here then they must have... It's hard to tell which way they went. Well King what have you found now? Oh more tracks huh? Here's a bandana. CN. CN. How could that... Newton. Psy Newton. He pulled in here about the same time the two other fellows were here. The tracks don't differ about the same depth. King we're going to Melville City to call on Psy at the Silver Lantern Cafe. Psy Newton sat at the table in a back room of the Silver Lantern Cafe resting his head on his hands. In spite of the fact that it was early afternoon the sun had already gone down. The glimmer of the dingy light thrown from the sputtering oil lamp showed where Psy is Mackinaw lay in a corner of the room wet with melted snow. Psy I didn't know you were here. Hello Manny.  I have. What is it? Business is good isn't it? What happened to your hands? Oh one of them stray muts bit me. I got a fixed dressing. You sure tore her into you? I guess he belongs to one of the trappers out front. Ain't no use lying to me Manny. Lying do you? I know how you got that dog bite. I don't savvy what you're driving at. Come on we'll have a few drinks. It is down the dumps. Oh Manny I ain't just down in the dumps. I know how you got that dog bite and I know where you got it. What do you mean? I mean we're through Manny. I've been keeping quiet for a long time now but there's a limit to everything. What I saw today. All right so let's have it come on. I knew when you was taking cash from the safe Manny but I figured if you needed it that was your business so I didn't say anything and you started bringing them low down friends of yours in here. You better be careful what you say so I'm getting this off my chest and then you're getting out of here even when they're mangy looking crooks was fleecing everyone who'd play a game of poker with them because they was your friends it was all right and as long as I got half interest in this cafe they can still come here. If you're smart you'll get out of the Yukon Manny. When them fur robberies started I didn't connect anything at first. It is I didn't till you began flashing around so much extra money. I won that money at poker. You ain't never held a winning poker hand in your life and you know it but I got all I can take this morning. I was at Split Rocks Manny and I saw what happened to Jim Glenn. Why you. Don't worry I'll keep quiet. You're clearing out of this cafe. You and all your friends many. You and me are through here. I don't care if I ever see you again. Manny and Psy didn't realize that as they talked their voices took on the loud argumentative ring that carried to the ears of Manny's friends playing poker in the back of the cafe. Well. The door open and led by Tom Bryant six men filed into the room their hands resting on their guns. Psy's appraisal of their worth left no margin for improvement. The dregs of the Yukon stood in that room and Psy as he glanced over the lot of them shivered well we thought you might have a private argument you boys can clear out they can clear right out of the cafe while they're at it.  Only thing I'm sorry for is the day we went into business together. I think we better stick around boys get out of here you can't prove a thing so I can prove everything I said that hand I told you better get him out of the way if you won't drop him I will. You ain't hit many many many no you don't you've done what you said out there. Let me see that man you've got to take care of newt and Mountie you still got life in him come on room after you to help me carry him out just a minute all right boys come on yes King I know we shouldn't have let them get away there's something mighty strange here I think this might be the best way to get to the bottom of it. My head will be all right I got a nasty bump there. You saw it all Sergeant Preston. No I didn't see it all I saw Manny draw his gun next thing I knew you'd fired and Bryant rushed up to Manny before he fell I did it all right I killed him Sergeant I listened to I want you to tell me exactly what happened from the beginning.  What are you looking for Sergeant Manny drew first I saw him yeah but what's that got to do with it he could easy killed me and well I guess it's up to you now Sergeant I'll just come along wait a minute well I'm under arrest and I can't arrest you Manny's proven dead. Now let's see you were standing right here I can't see what you're driving at it seems to me you stand here so here is no I thought so what I've got a murderer to catch Si and I need your help. Rumors spread through Melville City like wildfire as one man told another the story gained importance soon even the most incredulous of the minors were repeating the news Sergeant Preston brought Jim Glenn in the Melville City on his sled Jim badly wounded was being cared for in a room at the Silver Lantern and Si was held in jail will he be able to name the man who robbed him Sergeant Jim Glenn is able to speak you'll undoubtedly name the man who tried to murder him. The minors and trappers who frequented the Silver Lantern speculated was Si responsible for the robbery as well as for the murder of Manny. Si confessed yet Sergeant Si refuses to talk. Did you hear the news Manny yeah Preston's waiting for Jim Glenn to talk one of Glenn's sauce we can't take no chances might have had a good long look at us why was low on our sled what do you aim to do we'll make sure he don't talk.