Hey, hello, everybody and welcome back to the Think Tech Hawaii studios for the another exciting episode of security matters Today, we have the amazing Rebecca Bain with this from Bain consulting and search She is out of Denver and we're gonna dig into what's kind of flexing in the industry There's a lot of people doing well and a lot of people not doing well And I think things are moving around and Rebecca is one of those people it keeps her finger on the pulse of things So I'm looking forward to an insightful episode here today Rebecca. Thanks for joining me I know you're busy out there, and it's a busy time for all of us in the industry How you how are you and your team doing out there? Our team is doing great Andrew. Thank you so much for having me on your program We're so thankful. We have big open office space So we've been able to work entirely through this thing and thankfully all of our Families are close circles of friends. We're all good Awesome. Awesome. I'm glad to hear that. Well, many of our audience will know you but for those who may not Give us your you know as much of your history as you care to share and kind of bring us up through the Development of Bain consulting and search and you know kind of bring us into the present day and then we'll go from there Okay, I would love to so Bain consulting and search was born from my previous career Working for another company another recruiting firm in the industry SCW consulting I was with SCW consulting for 13 years and after 13 years Approach the owner Tom Berge and asked him if he would be willing to sell me the portion of the business that I'd helped him build which was focused on integration and during that 13 years I focused entirely on security integrators with a team of other people who we all work together and and focused on that space and Tom was willing to do that and it's been a fantastic journey ever since The company was founded on April 1st 2013 so we just had our seventh anniversary. Ah Congratulations, and you I know you've got Three or three or four that you're you're training and you've had some for a while now So how's a how's that development piece going in the I mean we've been through some flux in the industry So how's how's is it a good training opportunity available for them to learn? So I think that recruiting is a challenge. It's never an easy job Lindsay may you has been with me for going on six years at this point and Kelly Latimer has been with me for a little over four Nicole race has almost been with us for three We've had a few others come through here, but really not many It's it's it's typically a thing that you love and you really embrace and you make it a part of your life Because we deal with people's lives every day. Yeah Well, let's get to some of these some points that we talked about a little bit earlier, but the What's what's one of the keys that you think that for the companies that you know that are doing well and companies like yourselves You know what what sort of brought you through? So I would have to say that The the companies that I see they're making it through this time right now Andrew Someone unscathed. I don't think anyone is coming through this without feeling the impact They are companies that had a very very deep connection with their teams and their people Had strong cultures first and foremost so that when Modifications had to happen. Everyone bought into that and those modifications were fair and reasonable I also think that business models had a lot to do with it Hmm company is a good example of that Since you and I do work together. Sure. Yeah, we had um well I know we talked about this this whole idea of positivity and Christine's done a Job here kind of getting information out daily and trying to give it a you know Keep everybody aware of what's going on You know with the local government's position and our clients position on things, but then given it a positive spin So I think that helps, you know with motivation Have you seen other folks sort of just trying to emphasize the the you know the path forward is what we have We have to focus on and we can't you know control a lot of what's happening around us Yes, definitely. I think that one example of a company that I've seen do that They they were always very proactive from the beginning about being vocal with their teams And I think that all of my clients and the integrators that I've spoken with in the past two months Who have done the best again? We're very vocal and transparent about what they were going through and talked about ideas and shared the thoughts on what could Be put forth as options to keep as many people employed So some people voluntarily of course decided to go home and maybe only work part-time schedules, but in some cases companies took 40 hours of PTO and it told everyone please go take 40 hours of PTO and Everyone signed up for that in some cases people took salary cuts across the board some of those companies have already reinstalled those salary cuts and I think that one of the Really more critical things about positivity with companies is that if Teams or specific employees are not comfortable coming back yet Andrew those owners are being very conscientious about not pushing people So there are some people who are dying to get back to the office And there are some who just absolutely don't feel comfortable with it.   I think it's kind of scary for some I understand that What about this this generation of folks in our workforce that have never Probably maybe even seen sort of a downtime, you know, it's such a strong growth industry Something like this could be absolute shock if you're early on in your career Maybe you weren't around in 0809 or you know, definitely not in 2000, you know, I've been through a few of those but What do you think about that generation? What can we do to sort of encourage them or help at least? you know Kind of help to understand what they may be going through because it's probably different than some of some of what those of us who survived Some of those things it is I'll share the example of what happened in my own office here. I hope Lindsay's okay with this but Lindsay is my millennial and she Literally at the beginning of this thing was just I think she was Just couldn't believe that something this thing could be happening in our world and he was Just you know like coming in every day with a smile on her face and oh, this isn't that big of a deal And then one day it hit her. She was watching enough news reports were seeing the impact globally and and she was a Bit of an emotional wreck for about a week She just couldn't wrap her head around the thing and she said to me Rebecca even in the last recession I didn't feel that I was just getting out of school. I was you know working at Home Depot Things were different and easier and now she's really seeing the impact on her own family on her mother on her friends And so it was an eye-opener for me to stop and say wow this generation has not gone through this whereas you and I We've gone through three four recessions Maybe and I had to stop and realize how aware I need to be of how she's viewing this I've got a couple of other Employees who are in the next generation older They're a little bit more calm with it because they've seen some other things, but it's different for people based on their age undoubtedly Yeah, the you know the Do you think there's a Sort of a message of consistency that we can share with them about the strength of our industry I mean, you know last time I remember for sure 0809 it was it was interesting We were doing a lot of grant money work for the state But all the other projects that slowed down just came roaring back because security gets like this pent-up demand Yeah, and so the need never goes away. It's just it's kind of a win not an if sort of thing once companies decide to do this Is is you think the younger members of our of our industry can take some comfort in that and in believe in it Or do you think they they're like, I you know, they don't trust us yet Well, I think I think that we've always talked about the fact that security is somewhat recession proof. We're not Impervious to the impacts of that and especially with what's happening here This is a different situation than a recession in the United States. However They're not just hearing that from me and then when we speak to other people in the industry and other young people in the industry They're hearing it from the publications. They're hearing it from the old souls like you and me Talking about what we've been through in the past. And so no, I think that there definitely is some comfort in that Unfortunately in some cases crime goes up in these situations, right? Some clients talking to us about scenarios where they are more needed now than they were before But if a lot of this has yet to be told I had a conversation with Dean Reese at Reese security in Portland and You know, he said because he does a lot of work in the public space They're really not feeling a huge impact right now, but he knows that because public space is funded by taxes That there could be some other kind of impact down the road that we can't foresee right now So we'll see what happens as we move forward 2021. I think it's one day at a time one week at a time one month at a time Yeah, for sure the You know back to this empathy question. Do you have you seen any anybody doing sort of Anything you more a little more unique to help Maybe calm the some of the nerves of some of our workforce because some of this this workforce is young and brilliant And you know, we don't want to lose them right in and you know, they may If if they're not getting You know, if you weren't if an owner was unable to maybe kind of provide for them during these last month or two Or keep them confident They may be thinking about moving on, you know So as have you seen anybody do anything really unique to sort of address that that younger sort of Let's not call them afraid but the group that's concerned for their, you know, their own well-being first maybe a little more Head than the company. They're going through it for the first time Andrew again Some of those younger people so two things In one case I have a client here in Denver SIS Ruben Orr's company and He he said that a few of his younger employees came to him and just said, you know, Ruben This is this is a great opportunity for me to reassess my life I may not walk away from security entirely but right now I want to take a couple of months and I'm going to take a sabbatical and I'm going to go out to Wherever California or wherever and be with my friends my dearest friends And he was supportive to them because You're not you're not going to keep someone by threatening them or not allowing them to do that Those people will probably come back to him eventually another thing that I'm seeing is as far as conferences and Sessions and things that can be beneficial to the younger generation in our industry I'm involved in the rise group through CIA And we have a conference that was supposed to happen in Austin in late July We've the they're they're right now trying to figure out what they're going to do with that conference And if something can be done in a different scenario a different way, maybe virtually There are so many ways that you can reach out to the younger generation and Accelerize and rise in our industry specifically. I think it is going to be very important and probably more impactful now than it's been in the past Yeah, that group is I think over 800 today. It's pretty big. Yes. It's gotten big So I can imagine all of the owners are gonna want to Present if possible, you know or talk to them. I mean what a what a you know Just what a wealth of of young industry knowledge and industry motivation that we are we all know how they're their outlook is You know different and positive and we need those refreshing voices, you know, I've met several of those groups already So there that show may go virtual as well. I Think that right now they have to consider it because I we're not open We're not really open and I don't know about bringing a group of people together Yeah Little plug there one of the most amazing unique approaches to a conference that I've ever attended So we were a plant and sponsor last year. We're gonna sponsor again this year We need that young talent in our industry. Don't we yeah, yeah, it's awesome. Good stuff Well, let's um we're coming up to a good sort of midway point So we have to pay some bills we take about a one minute break We'll let Eric take us to the break and we'll be back in one minute with Rebecca Bain Aloha, I'm John David and the host of history lens on think-tech Hawaii history lens deals with Contemporary events and looks at them through a historical perspective or what we call a history lens The show is streamed live on think-tech Hawaii calm Thanks so much for watching our show. We look forward to seeing you then Mahalo and Aloha Hey, hello everybody and welcome back to security matters We're speaking with Rebecca Bain of Bain consulting and search and we're kind of going through what's flexing in the industry It's a tumultuous time especially if you've never been through it before Rebecca, we were talking about the the rise of the virtual event. You know, it's like um, it's it's I find it more difficult Personally, I mean I'm staring into these boxes. I call them Hollywood squares A lot of people even remember Hollywood that show, you know Hollywood squares But I feel like it's even more intense because you have to really focus on looking at people and It's it's a lot of work. I mean, I think our productivity is up actually I'd say as a result of it Do you think that we can take these virtual conference events and and make them even more productive? I Don't know if we can make them more productive. I think there will be a different kind of impact or benefit that comes from those Andrew, obviously you can do a lot more with Media and Advertising and then putting a message out that way, but I don't think it will ever be the same as being with those people face to face Yeah, a little side note about the amazing increase in requirement for zoom meetings There's there's another company that I work with in Southern California Olivier. They were already a virtual company in many respects In that they all worked from home, right? So Louis Bulgarides the the president there didn't want people to have to commute in Southern California We can understand why and So when this happened, they didn't have to make any modifications or pivot to get people home however suddenly all of their customers wanted to do zoom meetings and Louis said I'm doing more zoom meetings than I've ever done and he said I just finally I had to say hey guys We don't have to always see each other like this So It's a little hot thing. I agree with you But back to the the the concept of conferences I think that I heard recently that Genitech did a very successful virtual conference and I didn't see that but You know with really outstanding Technology and games and all kinds of little virtual rooms and things like that. I don't think it's ever gonna be the same I hope that we're able to get back to being together in person within six months. Sure year Mm-hmm. Could be a while I know that those of us that have been around a while we built relationships We look forward to getting to these conferences and seeing each other and catching up and I mean, I'm missing that myself Although I've seen a lot of people virtually. It's definitely it's not the same and you know from Hawaii You know me I was I hug everybody. Well that that's going away for sure Oh Like I We did play a we played a Jeopardy game and we've done a few things You know just with our team and I mean I do think that the opportunity To leverage a lot of this technology that that maybe we avoided because we were more comfortable Just meeting and shaking hands and doing what we'd always done, you know, I would expect to see a lot more of this sort of Virtual activity maybe even at a booth, you know, where you know, you've got some virtual stuff going on along with the live stuff Sort of a hybrid thing. I can't imagine what it's gonna be like when we come back, but I can't imagine we leave this behind No, I can't imagine either RFI in Northern California Deanne Harn again the president there told me that When she moved a meeting that they were doing twice a week in person To a zoom meeting everyone got more efficient about what they wanted to cover And so now that twice a week meeting has actually gone down to a once a week meeting and It's fine for everyone, but she had to invest a lot of time and effort in giving getting her team Super familiar with and comfortable with the technology because a lot of people have never done this, right? Yeah, we had used teams, but we weren't all that familiar with it, right? So it didn't take long I mean, it's now it's everything and we're now we went the other direction where we we huddled every morning the That's forget what principle that is what we said have a standing huddle 15 minutes So, you know if I need help from ops or ops needs help from sales whatever it could be you get somebody to commit to help and you to solve whatever your issue is, right and so we we've moved that to twice a day virtual, but it's still short and You know, there's nothing remains on the stuck board. That's not kind of waiting on a customer. So you know, I've been happy with that and You know, it's everything's in teams now kind of you know, which is fun I mean, it's a far more functional Tool than then the meetings we used to have in person. I just have to say that, you know, that's been my experience of it What have you heard of other maybe innovative Approaches and anything else that you know comes to mind that other you've seen other companies working on that have been successful and helped I'm kind of get through this or something that grew out of the doing of it virtually Well, the only other thing that I think I would share is that Knowing that there's always a certain team aspect to what security integrators do in the field, right? And and trying to figure out how do you shift? So be effective in the field if you need a team working together and you have to be aware of social distancing and and all of those various aspects I think again addressing it You know, Brian view at BTI said to me, it's we love our work It's not the work that we're losing or that we don't have enough work to do what we're wondering How can we still be as impactful and get as much satisfaction out of this when we're not all together all the time? So they're trying to find ways to do that and Very slowly bringing people back to the office. I I think that there's no magic wand Where we're really going to have to just see how this thing goes True determine what how much more we can do and how much we have to maybe dial things back as we move too quickly Yeah, yeah, I think there'll be a bit of a yo-yo effect for sure Well, let's get into what I think a lot of the viewers really gonna want to know about is what's happening with the workforce So are they? Well, I'm sure it's very you know different spots different things regional things What what can you share with us about your observations of the workforce like today just compared to?  We lost about 80 percent of the search assignments. We were working on to an on hold status surprisingly None of the searches that we were working on and we work with a myriad of companies from large global integrators to the very small mom-and-pop companies and Nothing was 100% canceled. We have a number of positions though just be put on hold and slowly Those are all being released and they're they're bringing those back active We've been very supportive to our clients at the same time that if they have people who are furloughed That they can shift and put into those roles that they should do that in a number of positions have been filled that way So they can stretch people a little bit further or bring a skill set over to a new role Rather than hire someone from the outside and then have to furlough someone or lay it lay them off for good a Number of our clients are doing that. I will tell you though that we're still filling positions and Companies that are diverse and didn't put all their eggs in one basket in one vertical Are definitely doing the best as our companies that work in the public space state local government and then education of course and Bed gov Yeah, we're very busy with companies that do that sort of work Surprisingly also or maybe not so surprisingly fire related Technologies, which are part of our life safety industry Those all have to be supported. You still have to have companies Protecting their buildings and their people if there are people in there But there's a lot of other property in those facilities that has to be protected by fire technology Mm-hmm fires not going away either it might have slowed down a bit, but it's not going away Yeah, the even construction here They that was an immediate push to keep construction going From the general contractor association from the city the state they in fact Accelerated projects to because that's that's about the only source of income in our economy out here now The rest was altruism Have you heard is that this a similar thing is new construction as far as you know, you know Going forward some states completely locked down construction sites.  I know that that happened in Washington State. It happened in California I Don't know a lot others off the top of my head, but there are some areas where no one was allowed on a construction site I know that in New York City just because of the very nature of The population there and the impact of COVID there was a lot more that went into lockdown there as well But where construction sites could be open projects have continued to move forward Thankfully, yeah Have you heard from owners? Do they do they feel like we'll be Kind of what I alluded to earlier that that that man will be pent up and that we will be doing all these projects It's just kind of built. They're all just kind of delayed. Is that that do you know? Can you resonate with that sort of is of a opinion? Definitely and not just opinion There are some very specific Timelines that have been fed back to integrators with projects that they have were literally the customer just said we're moving that to a start date in August Okay, number whatever the case might be. So there's just a temporary freeze on the project Of course, you know anything can happen between now and then but I don't know that anyone is foreseeing any kind of a major boom I feel like the impact of this is bigger that it's going to be a very slow Revival and then we're just going to be pacing ourselves and Yeah, if people don't get back to working companies don't reopen It's gonna be very slow. I agree that it's not going to go away. It has never gone away Yeah is Are there sectors of our industry that you think won't make it are there integrators who were living?  I mean in Hawaii the security companies by and large are still here, you know, I don't know who all is busy, you know But across the country at what what's your what's that picture look like from your perspective? I don't have any clients I don't know any companies that were 100% dependent on hospitality, but often they were Dependent on hospitality than a near-neighbor industry is often retail, right like that So they definitely have felt the largest impact They're taking in the example from companies like yours and others that have a lot more work with public sector critical infrastructure FedGov and And I'm of course talking to those companies about really trying to open up Themselves to exploring those possibilities as things move forward. There's a lot of work out there for companies that can do that Yeah, I hope um many of them have always been amazed how we tried government all the bureaucracy Ba-ba-ba, but if you if you wade through that you'll find that if you're I think if you're an important part of the national security strategy Then you know when national security is in the spotlight, you're busy, you know, that's kind of what we experienced We've got a minute or so left Share with our audience what what you'd like them to know about going forward and you know, what what you know A little bit of what you folks are going to do going forward The the biggest statement that I'd like to make about how we all go forward holding each other up Andrew is to stay positive one of the most I Don't even know the word to you Pointing things that I've experienced is that as soon as this thing came down People were calling me and everyone was talking about everyone with no real sense of what was true and what was false So please let's be positive. Let's let's look for the good things that companies are doing the wins that we're still all getting Let's hold each other up. Let's share good positive information and We'll make it through this. I we have to be positive. I Agree a hundred percent. Thank you so much for that wisdom. I hope people are listening out there Rebecca, thanks for taking the time to share with us today It was a great interview and I hope I hope I get to see you in person soon. If not, we'll just zoom it up again Okay, thanks Andrew. Take care. Aloha and out there in TV land. Take care. We'll see you soon next Tuesday. Aloha everybody


way of thinking. And it can be awkward initially. Because we know the old scripting. And this is calling for something new and unfamiliar. And there aren't a whole lot of role models for the new way of being. So it feels like very unchartered water sometimes. I had that experience in a few roles. Last summer when my friend Tom died of AIDS it had been like a two year time that I had spent with him in this illness. And just coming to such clarity with him about he was not his body he did not have AIDS to me. I just did not see him that way at all. And when he died I immediately went to the course. And looked up everything it said about death. And found all these wonderful passages that were just such a comfort to me. And just spent a lot of quiet time and a lot of time praying. And felt his presence with me. I mean it was just like he was, I mean I even felt him like over my shoulder. And I was talking to him and I just felt like he was right there with me. And I was saying Tom what was it you were trying to teach me. And it was like flashes were coming to me. Oh my gosh that was it. That was it. And it was like one right after another. All these insights of things that Tom was trying to teach me through this process that I had known him in. And I had this feeling of him just smiling and laughing and going God you got it finally. And I mean I was just so joyful and I went to, and I even thought well am I to go to his funeral or not because I didn't feel like I had anything incomplete with him.  And it was like there was nothing more left unsaid. But I felt you know I was to go and I went. And my experience of funerals in the past has always been once I start crying I cannot stop. I mean it's just like a flood of tears and I just feel intense grief. And I didn't shed a tear and I had several people around me who were real close friends of mine who again that's another thing that I've always like if there's somebody I'm close that I perceive myself as close to as they're crying. It's like just an automatic trigger to me that I just go into it too. But in this one friend of mine was just sobbing and sobbing and sobbing through the whole thing. And I just felt like I you know I could hold her and I could be with her and everything but it just didn't it just didn't feel like it always had before. It felt different and just throughout the whole thing and then we drove to the cemetery and had this you know the ceremony there and everything. It was just all of it together. It was just like I just had this feeling of him being right there with me and saying it's okay. It's okay I'm fine nothing happens. And it was just it was such an incredibly different experience for me. And I was so grateful for that just to see that it doesn't have to be perceived as that tragic thing. And not to project your feelings or say to deny things and whatever but that's what we're here today is in anything we go into if things trigger or whatever and you want to process or you want to trace them back that's what the mind shifts all about. It's really starting to trace it back and see the meaninglessness of it. When its meaninglessness isn't seen then it can seem like a sad picture or there can be all kinds of emotions. Shreds of fear, grief and so on and so forth and pain and sadness and all those kind of things. And of course the simple teaching is whatever you're not feeling happy, peaceful, joyful, it's a misperception. And you have another choice. It's early on in the text where Jesus will go through about sadness and depression and all these different things and the second name of the section is this needs not be. He goes through, he goes through one of the time these emotions seem to be devastating and then this needs not be. Depression. Depression comes when you are deprived of something that you want but do not have. Remember you are deprived of nothing except by your own decision and then you decide otherwise. Very, very it doesn't avoid things. It just kind of traces it through and really traces it talks about it always as a decision. On the surface it doesn't seem like a decision. It seems like there can be waves of emotion. Sometimes without even a specific reference. At times the emotion seems to be tied into a specific event that's being perceived or a specific memory that's being brought up into awareness but at times it seems to be very general. Sometimes when people have chronic depression and you say what are you thinking about? I don't know but I don't feel like life is worth living. There's not even a real sense of what the specific connections are. It's very difficult. It's a starting point just in those kind of cases but in every case Jesus is saying it's always a misperception and it's always a decision that you're deciding for that particular emotion. I thought today I know the other day it's always helpful to go through the metaphysics and actually the other day I told you the little, the Adam and Eve story I told you that in the beginning we're all as one. They're cut to tiny, mad idea. I wish the Son of God remembered not to laugh. There's another passage in the Course that really starts to describe the fall in very graphic terms and I think it can be helpful because it just doesn't, you know, most people don't spend their days giving a conscious thought to the fall of man. I mean there just seems to be so many specific problems, job related problems, relationship problems, financial problems, these things, they seem so concrete, they seem so real, they seem like they take so much energy to deal with that most people do not think about the fall of man when they wake up in the morning and passages like these to me are really helpful because that's the problem. The problem is the belief in separation and no matter how far removed, no matter how far the mind seems to have gone into this maze and there's layers and layers of complexity that seem to make the fall an obscurity but really it's just that one problem we talked about so there's a passage that when it's talking about the two emotions on page 347 that really starts to talk about the fall and basically... I was just going to say this chapter 18, are we going to be in the first section? We're going to be in the second section. Thank you, I've got one in the car, I just did braiding because we really didn't use the other tape. And this time looking at the fall, instead of a tiny mad idea at which the sun remembered not to laugh, this time it's coming out the fall in terms of substitution. And I think substitution is an interesting kind of thing in the sense that there's truth and there's illusion and it's kind of like, you know, when they talk about babies being switched at birth in a sense there's a substitution and there's a switch that's taken place that the mind, when it fell asleep, it just... it switched it took serious this thing called illusion and it forgot reality so really that's the first and the only substitution that has ever taken place was the substitution of truth for illusion or illusion actually illusion for truth is the first substitution. And the mind was so horrified that it started making all kinds of substitutions and adjustments to try to handle the first one without dealing with the original one. It just started making up things. It's kind of like when a child does something and he thinks it's terrible, he thinks oh my gosh if my mom and dad ever found out about this and so he tells a lie and then he tries to cover it and then he starts telling another one and another one and another one and it seems to him like I can't let mom and dad find out about the first thing and that's too horrendous so if I have to tell 15 lies, if I have to weave a web around it and to really make it obscure then that'll be good because then mom and dad probably won't ever find out about it. Take a real sluice to get back to that. Or you've seen those movies where people seem to be wanting to help each other. We watched one last night as a matter of fact where one lie starts and then more and more and it's pretty soon you have the web of deceit. Or I think of movies like Justin Hoffman and Jessica Lane-Tussy where he really likes the Dustin Hoffman character, really likes her and he needs a job and so he that's his first thing is to get the job he goes into deception right away and he dresses up like a woman. Then he seems to fall in love and Jessica Lane character really confides in him female to female so to speak and really trusts that character and then he falls in love and then it's like now what am I going to do? All the people I remember on the soap opera that he's on when he finally you know goes off the script and takes off his wig and all these people are there's this big glide and all these substitutions have taken place and those are all just good metaphors for precisely what the mind has done in this world and for each one of us to take a good look at and am I going to continue to keep adjusting am I going to continue to keep substituting we've substituted bodies, families, cars, homes, jobs we've substituted travel we've substituted pleasures, conveniences, comforts oh it's just a web of things to try to make up a kingdom and to kind of forget about that first substitution and Jesus is saying it ain't going to work substitute all you want, come back here and let's look at the first one and the only one and then you'll be free you'll remember who you are it kind of gets back to when we were saying that it ain't so bad so what we want to do then is take well let me just take a few of these lies they work they seem to work and they seem to be kind of fun so we'll take a few of these lies and we'll use this to get rid of the rest and that's where a lot of conflict comes in when you start looking at them it seems to be conflict because the substitutions have seemed to work and now the mind is being taught that they really haven't worked and to me the word adjustment is important too it's like when that first substitution was made the mind has followed it with a series of adjustments I remember when I was in college taking the psychology of adjustment you know and really just questioning the underpinnings like what's fishy about adjustment I just didn't like that word there was something that adjustment meant and coping mechanisms why cope why not go to the source and be free forever why just cope cope cope and this and that I remember when I worked at Goodwill I worked in work adjustment I was a work adjustment supervisor and most of the work that we were supposed to be doing was helping these mentally retarded schizophrenic adults with many many seeming different disabilities physical emotional mental psychological adjust to work you know adjust to become productive citizens build their productivity learn work skills and everything and there the clients were coming to me you know they had issues with their supervisors and productivity and this and that and hey and all this and that but they had issues with other mental issues they want to talk about you know relationships with their families and so on and so forth and I remember the program I was working in it was kind of like they wanted us all to use a behavior modification approach to work adjustment and I remember the time I just came across the course and I had all my progressive ideas and it felt like doing all this behavior model was like working with one hand kind of tied me on your back saying here come on let's talk for a minute see if we can you know get down to something a little bit deeper than just you know how many chips did you get and your work adjustment you know charting and all this and that so


An employee who can't take criticism or won't accept feedback can be very difficult to manage. When everything is going well, when the employee doesn't take feedback, it's an annoyance not a major issue. When aspects of their work, behaviour, choices or actions are not going well, then the employee who refuses to accept criticism can quickly become a major issue to you the manager and to the team as a whole. Imagine if an employee wouldn't improve their output, which in turn delayed an important project with significant consequences for the business. There would be a lot of angry people putting a lot of pressure on you and the rest of the team. I have seven steps to manage an employee that can't take criticism that I found works to get your feedback across and improve the chances of change and action from them. The fifth and sixth steps are about coaching the other person to explore the issues rather than telling them your views. This takes longer, but it is usually a lot more effective in creating change with employees who can't take criticism. My name is Jess Coles and if you're new here, enhance the training shares, people management expertise, resources and courses, for you to manage your team with integrity and fairness and get outstanding results. I've included links to additional videos and resources in the description below as well as the video timestamps so do take a look at these. And if you like the video, please give it a thumbs up and subscribe. When managing any employee, one of the most important things is to keep in mind is that every person's situation is different, so you have to flex what you do to the person and the situation you have in front of you. The first three steps we're covering today are preparation steps. Do these well and the actions you take will be a lot easier to do and be more effective. Don't prepare well and you can easily damage relationships and trust. It is not easy to repair damage to trust, so please prepare well. The first step for employees who can't take criticism is to work out exactly what the issues are. By being really clear what the issues are and collecting examples, you can avoid appearing to give your feedback as an opinion. The more you can keep your feedback factual, specific and focused on, firstly the specific behaviours, secondly the actions or lack of actions and thirdly the choices and decisions, that easier it will be to discuss the issues without appearing to criticise them as individuals. Be specific when detailing what the issues are.  Lisa looked very upset with shrinking body language and at least three team members looked very disapproving and uncomfortable with the display. This is very different from, I didn't like the way Bill shouted at Lisa yesterday. Being specific with the issues helps you come up with much more specific questions to ask the person who can't take criticism. Specific questions are harder to avoid and it helps to get them talking. Define the impact of the issues is the second step for employees who won't accept feedback. When you're providing negative feedback you are in effect asking for change. Change requires effort and to put in that effort a person needs a personal reason. Think the specific issues you have to specific impacts on individuals, teams and the business. Impacts can be described in many ways, in some examples might be firstly because of X decision you made we as a team lost three weeks which in turn and you go on to describe the impacts. Secondly the impact of you shouting at Lisa is a damage relationship, anger, hurt which also translate into a lower level of trust and teamwork which in turn and then you can talk about the impacts on them personally. Use your judgement and be realistic, do not underplay or overplay the impacts. Then workouts how the impacts to others and the business may feed through to the impact on the individual. Again when you are clear on the chain of impacts you can ask better leading questions to get the employee who won't accept feedback thinking through the impacts. The third step for employees who can't take criticism is to clearly define the outcomes you want. Define the outcome you want in terms of the change you want from the person in question. For Bill shouting at Lisa the changes might include, if firstly helping Bill to communicate more constructively his own anger, frustration and annoyance. Thirdly it could be ensuring Bill does not shout at Lisa or any other team members again. And thirdly it could be making sure the team sees me take action on Bill's shouting without portraying confidentiality. Being clear on the outcome that you want creates a focal point and a goal for your subsequent conversations with the employee who can't take criticism. The fourth step for an employee who won't accept feedback is always discussing private. You're praised publicly but you should always keep any criticism firmly to private situations. Book a meeting room, take a short walk, use your next one on one meeting and create an opportunity to have a private conversation without delaying unnecessarily. Aim to keep yourself relaxed and to keep them relaxed. I always try to go for informal rather than formal in most situations. Always have conversations criticising actions choices or behaviour in private. This is even more important for employees who can't take criticism. The fifth step to manage an employee who can't take criticism is to use questions to lead rather than feedback to tell. What to say to an employee who can't take criticism is a challenge. I use questions to get the other person talking and then concentrate on listening and understanding their position. During your preparation steps you've been working on a list of questions that you can ask to focus the conversation on the points that you want them to cover. The best way I've found for how to give feedback to someone who hates getting it is by asking targeted questions and leading them to give themselves realistic feedback. Using questions is a lot less confrontational and involves much less negative emotion than telling the other person what you think. It is definitely my default approach for any emotionally charged situation or when an employee won't accept feedback. Here is an example of giving negative feedback to an employee through using questions. And I've outlined a conversation towards a difficult end of what is common in these situations. Manager Bill can you tell me more about how you were feeling just before and during your talk with Alicia yesterday? Bill Err what talk? Manager I and the rest of the team saw you stand up at your desk and state a few things to Alicia yesterday. I think this was around 1pm. Bill I can't really remember. Manager You looked very emotional and had strong views. I would be amazed if you didn't remember it. Bill Okay I do remember it. I just don't want to talk about it. Manager I appreciate that talking about it might not be easy. I have to talk about it with you. It's part of my job as a manager. I'd like to help you come up with different ways to manage that situation. Please would you tell me about what you were thinking and feeling? Bill Okay And the conversation continues. Be diplomatic and considerate and remain direct so that you don't let the other person off the hook. Using questions, a calm tone of voice and interested body language does wonders to get the other people talking. As always, use your judgement and remain aware of the non-verbal feedback from the other person in front of you. They want to talk to you when they trust you and you have to earn that trust. Demonstrate that you have their best interests at heart. The sixth step for employees who won't accept feedback is to ask them to create solutions. Another very effective way of getting employees who won't accept feedback to take in, understand and accept feedback is if you ask them to help you create solutions to the feedback issue. For example, you could ask them to help you understand the best way to give them feedback. An example might be in manager Bill, I could really use your help. Would you mind helping me? Bill, what do you want to help with? Manager I'm really struggling to understand the best way to give you useful feedback. I don't want you to get left behind as the team improves. How would you prefer me to approach helping you? Bill, I don't really understand what you mean. Manager Can you coach me or tell me how best to speak to you about the areas that benefit you to improve? Bill, I think you know that I don't like getting feedback. I find it difficult to receive. I would appreciate you coaching me through examples that I can realise what I'm doing well and what I'm not doing well. This works a lot better for me than really just directly telling me the feedback. Would you mind taking that approach? Manager, thank you for helping me. I really appreciate it. I'll do my best user coaching approach and the conversation continues with the manager asking questions and listening. Asking for their help puts control in their hands. They decide to help or not. And this increases the feeling of safety and I think it helps Bill trust. If they're not ready to help you, don't push it. Return to the conversation at the next sensible opportunity. One thing you can't do is ignore or forget about the issues. You must keep signalling that it is important to you to resolve with them. The seventh step to manage an employee who can't take criticism is to be patient to build trust. You build trust by letting the employee who can't take criticism choose the pace at which they are willing to let you help them. You build trust by doing all you can to help them personally. By helping them, you should be helping the team, which in turn helps you personally. You can't demand trust or tell someone to trust you. You have to earn trust. So be patient and make sure all your decisions, actions and behaviours are relying to building trust with everyone on your team and in particular any employees that won't accept feedback. Don't ignore or forget about the issues. You must keep signalling that it is important to you to resolve them by carefully asking good, relevant questions to get them thinking and talking. In summary, we've covered the best way I know for what to do when your employee doesn't take feedback. Giving feedback when employees can't handle it can create more problems than it solves. I have found that using questions to lead an employee through exploring the feedback that I want them to accept is a much more productive and useful approach. Using questions does take more time and effort than simply telling them but every employee you use this with is much more likely to take action and change which of course is what you want. The seven steps to manage an employee who can't take criticism we've covered today are, firstly, work out exactly what the issues are. Secondly, define the impact of the issues. Thirdly, clearly define the outcome you want. Fourth, always discuss in private. Fifth, use questions to lead rather than feedback to tell. Sixth, ask them to create solutions. And then seventh, be patient to build trust. And if you have any questions on the seven steps to manage an employee who can't take criticism, please leave them a comment section below and I'll get back to you. And don't forget to take a look at the additional videos and resources in the description below as well. Thanks very much for watching and I look forward to speaking to you again soon.


We continue today with chapter 13, from perception to knowledge. All healing is released from the past. That is why the Holy Spirit is the only healer. He teaches that the past does not exist, a fact which belongs to the sphere of knowledge and which, therefore, no one in the world can know. It would indeed be impossible to be in the world with this knowledge. For the mind that knows this unequivocally knows also it dwells in eternity and utilizes no perception at all. It therefore does not consider where it is because the concept where does not mean anything to it. It knows that it is everywhere just as it has everything and forever. The very real difference between perception and knowledge becomes quite apparent if you consider this. There is nothing partial about knowledge. Every aspect is whole and therefore no aspect is separate.  All knowledge must be yours, for in you is all knowledge. Perception, at its loftiest, is never complete. Even the perception of the Holy Spirit as perfect as perception can be is without meaning in heaven. Perception can reach everywhere under his guidance, for the vision of Christ beholds everything in light. Yet no perception, however holy, will last forever. Perfect perception, then, has many elements in common with knowledge, making transfer to it possible. Yet the last step must be taken by God because the last step in your redemption, which seems to be in the future, was accomplished by God in your creation. The separation has not interrupted it. Creation cannot be interrupted. The separation is merely a faulty formulation of reality with no effect at all. The miracle, without a function in heaven, is needful here. Aspects of reality can still be seen and they will replace aspects of unreality. Aspects of reality can be seen in everything and everywhere. Yet only God can gather them together by crowning them as one with the final gift of eternity. Apart from the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit has no function. He is not separate from either, being in the mind of both and knowing that mind is one. He is a thought of God, and God has given him to you because he has no thoughts he does not share. His message speaks of timelessness in time, and that is why Christ's vision looks on everything with love. Yet even Christ's vision is not his reality. The golden aspects of reality that spring to light under his loving gaze are partial glimpses of the heaven that lies beyond them. This is the miracle of creation, that it is one forever. Every miracle you offer to the Son of God is but the true perception of one aspect of the whole. Though every aspect is the whole, you cannot know this until you see that every aspect is the same, perceived in the same light and therefore one. Everyone seen without the past thus brings you nearer to the end of time by bringing healed and healing sight into the darkness and enabling the world to see. For light must come into the darkened world to make Christ's vision possible even here. Help him to give his gift of light to all who think they wander in the darkness and let him gather them into his quiet sight that makes them one. They are all the same, all beautiful and equal in their holiness, and he will offer them unto his Father as they were offered unto him. There is one miracle as there is one reality, and every miracle you do contains them all, as every aspect of reality you see blends quietly into the one reality of God. The only miracle that ever was is God's most holy Son created in the one reality that is his Father. Christ's vision is his gift to you. His being is his Father's gift to him. Be you content with healing, for Christ's gift you can bestow and your Father's gift you cannot lose. Offer Christ's gift to everyone and everywhere, for miracles offered the Son of God through the Holy Spirit attune you to reality. The Holy Spirit knows your part in the redemption and who are you seeking and where to find them. Knowledge is far beyond your individual concern. You who are part of it and all of it need only realize that it is of the Father, not of you. Your role in the redemption leads you to it by re-establishing its oneness in your mind. When you have seen your brothers as yourself, you will be released to knowledge, having learned to free yourself through him who knows of freedom. Unite with me under the holy banner of his teaching and as we grow in strength the power of God's Son will move in us and we will leave no one untouched and no one left alone. And suddenly time will be over and we will all unite in the eternity of God the Father. The holy light you saw outside yourself in every miracle you offered to your brothers will be returned to you.  As miracles in this world join you to your brothers, so do your creations establish your Fatherhood in Heaven. You are the witness to the Fatherhood of God and he has given you the power to create the witnesses to your Fatherhood in Heaven. The miracle that God created is perfect as are the miracles that you established in his name. They need no healing nor do you when you accept them. Yet in this world your perfection is unwitnessed. God knows it but you do not and so you do not share his witness to it. Nor do you witness unto him for reality is witnessed to as one.  The miracles you do on earth are lifted up to Heaven and to him. They witness to what you do not know as they reach the gates of Heaven. God will open them for never would he leave his own beloved Son outside them and beyond himself. And from the workbook, lesson 101, God's will for me is perfect happiness. Today we will continue with the theme of happiness. This is a key idea in understanding what salvation means. You still believe it asked for suffering as penance for your quote sins. This is not so. Yet you must think it so while you believe that sin is real and that God's Son can sin. If sin is real then punishment is just and cannot be escaped. Salvation thus cannot be purchased but through suffering. If sin is real then happiness must be illusion or they cannot both be true. The sinful warrant only death and pain and it is this they ask for. For they know it waits for them and it will seek them out and find them somewhere, sometime in some form that evens the account they owe to God. They would not escape him in their fear and yet he will pursue and they cannot escape. If sin is real salvation must be pain. Pain is the cost of sin and suffering can never be escaped if sin is real. Salvation must be feared for it will kill but slowly taking everything away before it grants the welcome boon of death to victims who are little more than bones before salvation is appeased. Its wrath is boundless, merciless, but holy just. Who would seek out such savage punishment? Who would not flee salvation and attempt in every way he can to drown the voice which offers it to him? Why would he try to listen and accept its offering? If sin is real its offering is death and meet it out in cruel form to match the vicious wishes in which sin is born.  You need the practice periods today. The exercises teach sin is not real and all that you believe must come from sin will never happen for it has no cause. Accept atonement with an open mind which cherishes no lingering belief that you have made a devil of God's son. There is no sin. We practice with this thought as often as we can today because it is the basis for today's idea. God's will for you is perfect happiness because there is no sin and suffering is causeless. Joy is just and pain is but the sign you have misunderstood yourself. Fear not the will of God but turn to it in confidence that it will set you free from all the consequences sin has wrought in feverish imagination. Say, God's will for me is perfect happiness. There is no sin. It has no consequence. So should you start your practice periods and then attempt again to find the joy these thoughts will introduce into your mind. Give these five minutes gladly to remove the heavy load you lay upon yourself with the insane belief that sin is real. Today escape from madness. You are set on freedoms road and now today's idea brings wings to speed you on and hope to go still faster to the waiting goal of peace. There is no sin. Remember this today and tell yourself as often as you can. God's will for me is perfect happiness. This is the truth because there is no sin. God's will for me is perfect happiness. Today we open up to a sinless world. Today we would have the Holy Spirit remove every stain of sin that was falsely perceived and falsely believed. The Holy Spirit is the only healer. The Holy Spirit undoes the belief in linear time forever. He teaches that the past does not exist a fact which belongs to the sphere of knowledge and which therefore no one in the world can know. Today I would open up to the timeless experience of my very being. Today I would let go of concepts of past and future, concepts of location in heaven where does not mean anything. Everything is everywhere forever in the mind of God. There is nothing partial in heaven. And in perception, in healed perception every aspect is whole and therefore no aspect is separate. In a hologram the part contains the whole. In holistic perception every aspect is the same for it is whole. Wholeness is the only thing that healed perception can perceive. Today we take a step towards the happy dream. We will see aspects of reality in everything we experience because healed perception envelops and includes everything and everyone. The miracle of creation is that it is one forever. In the stillness and quiet we behold this oneness. As we look upon the world we give thanks for our brothers and sisters. They are all the same, all beautiful and equal in their holiness. Today we are content to be healed. Today we are content to extend the gift of Christ and look upon the Christ in all that we see. Today oneness is reestablished in our mind, in Christ vision. Today we see our brothers and sisters as ourself. We behold the meaning of love thy neighbor as thy self. In the miracle we join with all our brothers and sisters. The miracle that God created is perfect as are the miracles that we establish in His name. Today we will draw upon the witnesses for Christ. Today we see that no one is left outside our healed and holy perception. There is no sin. Without sin there can be no suffering. And without sin happiness alone is real. God's will for me is perfect happiness. Punishment cannot exist. There is no sin. Today I accept atonement with an open mind. There is no sin. There is no sin. It has no consequence. We practice today enjoy sharing and extending this one holy true idea. God's will for me is perfect happiness.