Good evening and welcome everyone before we get started I want to note that Mara and Monique will be doing ASL interpretation tonight And we've reserved seats in the front two were rose to what the left Facing the stage and if you want ASL interpretation, we have an ASL interpreter Welcome everyone. I am honored to be a part of this evening introducing Arnold layman's amazing book sensation Which gives us an insider's view of an important and explosive moment in art history I know we're all eagerly anticipating his discussion tonight with Darren Walker The Brooklyn Museum is grateful to the Bank of America for helping us to make this evening happen and Proud to be a part of Pan America's programming Before we hear from Arnold and Darren, please welcome Julie Traybo Director of Artists at Risk Connection for Pan America to the stage. She'll be telling us about that program Good evening everyone. My name is Julie Traybo So I'm the director of the artist at risk connection at Pan America And it's really a pleasure to be with you all today. I would like to echo Sandra as a warm welcome To you and the organizer at the organizer of this event at the Brooklyn Museum There's also the Ford Foundation for the opportunity to speak with you both in person And I think virtually as well as we continue to adjust To the peculiarities of pandemic event planning So I'm very honored to be here today with Arnold layman and Darren Walker to celebrate Arnold's Fascinating and timely book sensation Madonna the Meyer the media and First Amendment Arnold's account of the controversy surrounding the sensation exhibition in 1999 paints a vivid picture of how quickly the freedom of expression of even a major u.s Cultural institution come can become threatened The story deeply resonates with us at Pan America and the artist at risk connection Pan America is no stranger to the Barry's censorship can present Funded by writers for writers We celebrate the power of the written word and defend free expression in the u.s And around the world the artist connection project was creating in 2017 as a natural extension of Pan America's work We safeguard the right to artistic freedom of expression and ensure that artists and cultural actors Everywhere and of all disciplines can leave and work without fear Since our inception we have assisted more than 400 individual artists from 63 countries we connect them with direct resources from our international network of organization Approximately 64% of these artists are visual artists Although most of our work is focused internationally Who also do u.s. Base work mainly focusing on issues on censorship of censorship? particularly in museums academies campus and online spaces Arnold's reflections on the sensation exhibition Hunters long-standing issue of artistic censorship in the u.s. Institution especially within museums as he as is clear in the case of sensation for Institution funded by the national government the line between government support and Convertment control can be breached very quickly But censorship is not just limited to governments in the past five years alone instances Where museums have been pressured to edit their cultural curatorial decision or have decided to self-censor To avoid pushback from the public have steadily increases Some of us may remember several highly publicized cases Such as the removal of free works from the Guggenheim art in China after 1989 exhibition in 2017 after a massive process protest by animal rights activists or the post-born man of Philip Guston's exhibition at the National Gallery of Art last year out of fear that the artist's painting of Cuckoo's clan members might be misunderstood by audience in the wake of the whispered protests around racial and social injustice So in the case of sensation the long battle between the museum the mire and moral outrage at Ultimately positive resolution, but the legacy of the historic controversy leaves on museums are in grizzling in grizzly finding themselves on the defensive or even in states of paralyzes for displaying polarizing work often with artists taking multiple sides The situation leads us to once again Question how museum and galleries can safely curate sensitive content without becoming a vehicle for censorship Are the blurred lines between what is permissible and what is not being with row? Is it not in the role of museums to display work that push boundaries and to actively Participate in defending freedom of expression What are the tension and connection between artistic freedom and making the art field more diverse inclusive and accessible Today's events provide a much needed starting point for understanding How museum can remade steadfast in protecting in artistic freedom While maintaining an open and informed dialogue about sensitive subject matter as Arnold himself put it best Museum are safe place for unsaved ideas They are the platform where those ideas must be shared and discussed So I would like once again to thank the entire team of the Brookin Museum for making this even possible tonight And I also wanted to invite you to read an interview that we will publish with Arnold on our pen website on October 7th as our pen 10 Series and I will you very much look forward to this engaged in conversation Thank you so much, and I will leave the floor the might to saudra for the for introducing our distinguished speaker Thank you very much Julie Sensation the Madonna the mayor the media and the first amendment is a page turner Chronicle in the loud and turbulent first American amendment battle which occurred in New York City and it echoed throughout the world The show had its opening here Almost exactly 22 years ago in September of 1999 Preve in previews the tabloid media castigated the inclusion in the show of Chris of Philly's Holy Virgin Mary among other works apparently sight unseen their descriptions were really off in the beginning The portrait is actually of a voluptuous black Madonna and Include several compact orbs of done which are decorated in beating there are also Miniscule photos of female genitalia on the portrait the Catholic League and Maru del Juliani seized upon the criticism loudly proclaiming the Madonna and the entire show to be the desecration of someone else's religion and Proclaiming that he Juliani would have no compunction in defunding the museum evicting it from the city-owned space and firing the board if the show were not canceled Arnold layman The board's chair the late Bob Rubin and the entire Brooklyn Museum board in a unique act of courage grit and adherence to the principles of free artistic expression Refused to back down a legal battle followed if you as you've seen on the news footage In the federal court for the Eastern District of New York in Brooklyn the case is a hallmark in its confirmation confirmation of the First Amendment rights of artists and Cultural institutions in uphold in it's upholding the museum's right to present sensation in its entirety and In preventing the museum the museum's destruction by Mayor Juliani and the city of New York Judd me Nina Gershaw noted if there is a bedrock Proposition Underlying the First Amendment it is that government may not Prohibit the expression of an idea simply because Society finds the idea itself to be offensive or disagreeable She went on to state the state has no legitimate interest in protecting any or all religions from views distasteful to them in response to the position that you've heard echoed over and over again here in newsreels that The music the city was not obligated to pay to pay for the objectionable art that was included in sensation Judge Gershaw and articulated the rule that once having Appropriated funds to an institution artist or show the government cannot Retroactively withdraw that support because it finds a particular artistic expression to be distasteful The city was actually enjoined from ejecting the museum from its premises and Ordered to pay money monies it had withheld during the dispute as well as promised capital support The battle of Sensation was very much on my own mind when a couple of months after the show opened Bob Rubin came and Arnold and asked me to join this board and My response was a resounding yes the commitment to presenting diverse points of view and social justice continued under Arnold's watch and has been upheld to this day under and past the next leadership It gives me great pleasure to introduce these two men who are both revered by the Brooklyn Museum Thankfully, they're both giants in their fields and don't really need any introduction for me We'd be here for a very long time if I went through all of their accomplishments. So let me abbreviate Arnold layman has been the prototype for a progressive and courageous museum director in His leadership of the Brooklyn Museum and before that the Baltimore Museum of Art Throughout his distinguished career Arnold has held leadership roles in major cultural organizations and entities both in New York City and Nationally, there are really too many of these for me to list since 2015 Arnold has served as a senior advisor at Phillips Darren Walker is president of the Ford Foundation. I think everybody here must already know that as well It's a 16 billion dollar international social justice philanthropy under his leadership The Ford Foundation became the first non-profit in the US to issue a one billion dollar social bond to Stabilize not-for-profit organizations in the wake of COVID-19 like Arnold He serves on major arts and culture focused boards as well as public Companies. Darren has been included among Times annual most 100 100 most influential people out magazines power 50 and he was named the Wall Street Journal's 2020 Philanthropy innovator. With that, please welcome Darren and Arnold Yes, I think you can hear me now Arnold my friend How Exciting is this? To be with you on the occasion of the publication of sensation which is a sensation Arnold this is a tour de force You have produced a book that as Sandra said so well is indeed a page Turner It is copious in its detail It reflects the sensibility of an art historian a political scientist an anthropologist It's you Arnold and you have achieved a Remarkable accomplishment and I think we're all eager to hear from you about sensation The process of this book the time we lived in 22 years ago But first I believe you have a little show-and-tell maybe Always a picture is worth a thousand words I'm gonna put this back. I was told that no one could see me with this in front of me But my memory at this time of the evening is not as good as it used to be so Sandra whom I thank immensely for that introduction Really gave a very good capsule Reflection on sensation of what it meant in New York City to so many people and I thought I would just share with you a few images and Then Darren and I can talk about them further The next this is the a health warning which we issued my idea which Apparently annoyed as many people as the exhibition did it was meant it was meant to be hyperbolic obviously and More or less a joke however when the Catholic League Protested in front of the museum. They distributed vomit bags So they they took me they took us at our word Anyway, I have the clicker here that you've seen I'm so delighted to be here today because Even 22 years later A sensation remains in my mind this impossibly turbulent And supremely meaningful episode in my life as a museum director for 40 plus years Despite the fact that I've been involved in extraordinary exhibitions Nothing kept me up at night entirely and still often does Except for the memory of the exhibition and what it did to our staff and to so many others in New York City This is the catalog of the exhibition that started The Bruja on New York. It was the exhibition of called sensation young British artists from the Saatchi collection which I was able to bring to New York City in 1999 through the beginning of 2000 It came as many of you know from the collection of the advertising mogul Charles Saatchi Who was then certainly the preeminent collector of contemporary art in Great Britain and perhaps in Europe as well That is a building you know But in 1997 when I was hired by the board here They asked certain things of me they wanted to move the museum directly from The 20th century to the 21st century do not pass go Directly into the New World They asked that we restore the leadership of the museum in the larger museum community and To look to Brooklyn to the nearly three million people in Brooklyn instead of our Constant competitive mode of trying to drag people across the bridge from Manhattan and With the idea that if we did Enough of the right thing the good thing the exciting things people would cross that bridge or tunnel So An ad that we One of the several ads that we Included in the newspapers While at the Baltimore Museum which Where I spent nearly 20 years before coming to Brooklyn I had worked for a decade on an exhibition of treasures from London's Victorian Albin Museum and the reason I say that is I over the course of six or seven years I Made 30 or 35 trips to London to work on the exhibition and as such I became intimately familiar with the contemporary art scene in London and in Great Britain As soon as I heard about sensation which was part of every newspaper story almost every day I Seize the opportunity For Brooklyn to become the only US venue for the exhibition which would become a huge hit in London and then in Berlin On reflection, of course, I wondered how and why There weren't 10 20 other museum directors lined up in front of me and Yeah, I think I learned that lesson clearly One painting at the Royal Academy in London Caused the sensation exhibition to become a huge controversy in London it was this enormous portrait on the back wall of the slide of Plaster made of plaster models of children's hands Of Myra Hindley who was called the Moore's murderer who became an infamous serial murderer of children in the 1960s and In addition to Myra which went without notice here in Brooklyn the exhibitions other works would be new I felt exciting and often very provocative to New Yorkers who need a lot to provoke them such as This work Sculpture children with what I've always called genitals in all the wrong places by the Chapman brothers Or dead dad a half-sized nude male figure by Ron Muick or this self-portrait Of the artist made of the artist's own frozen blood by Mark Quinn and Perhaps most astonishing to visitors and certainly most aggravating To the people for the ethical ethical treatment of animals were the works by Excuse me. I went backward by Damien Hurst such as this Shark which was called the physical impossibility of death in the mind of someone living A ferocious almost 20-foot long shark encased in hundreds of gallons for a milder hide and Then there were also other Hurst pieces such as this sliced cow In a dozen sections or more than a dozen sections again in formaldehyde filled cases There had been outrage in London Among the Royal Academy's elected artist members the British tabloids had truly a field day with the exhibition and one of the things I remember best about the enormous number of articles I read was One of the Royal Academy missions was quoted as saying and I want to get it right Why should I go to the RA? To experience mutilation morbidity perversion and Bestiality I can get all of that at home Despite the mostly negative media or perhaps because of it I witnessed thousands of young people in line every day to see sensation at the Royal Academy at The Royal Academy. I don't know how many visited there, but I don't think They've ever seen a long line even for the most miraculous of exhibitions, which they do very regularly So I don't want to give away all the exciting details of the book which Darren might Because you need to read it to experience it But for Brooklyn, I felt very strongly and for New York City that there was a specifically different totally unexpected Painting in the exhibition that as Sandra said set off a firestorm of Reverberated that we reverberated around the world through an avalanche of media it is hard to imagine in these days of Internet and lightning fast Communication that where each incident may be last the day in the news Or two at the most Where sensation was the front page of newspapers Week after week and on television for hours every day for over six months that painting that I talked about is This that Sandra again, I think described very well That's very beautifully crafted and almost glowing with reverence by a young British born anglo at Nigerian artist Chris Ophelia Ophelia Often used again as Sanchez so well described dry balls of elephant dung That was shellacked and intricately decorated and not with beads but with stick pins. They're often referred to as beads but they're not and He considered The reason he used this went back to his own African roots where elephant dung was considered healing and life affirming and he used that ball of elephant dung as the Virgin Mary's breast again to refer to the life-giving nature of The material and also of the subject matter in addition Ophelia used These balls of elephant dung to name the painting actually is the Virgin Mary on Mary on the other one Because his paintings were not hung on the wall, but were words against the wall So that they had more of a physical presence in the space During the exhibition I would come to the galleries every day and one day two white nuns approached me and whispered in my ear that They thought this was Among that the Virgin Mary was among the most reverent and beautiful paintings. They had ever witnessed That moment These are some of the comments That we recorded we had over 6,000 cards in the first two weeks and Hundreds of comment books which were just filled day after day after day But it was that moment with those two nuns that I think I will never forget It helped me to put aside the death threats against me the bomb threats against the museum and the exhibition and Unfortunately the people attacking me and the street and on the subway and in the press Here we go The first media explosion came after the New York Daily News Published a highly inflammatory piece about the show three weeks before it opened No one from the newspaper from any newspaper had seen the exhibition Before that even so it was headlined Brooklyn Gallery of Horror gruesome museum show stirs controversy and Unfortunately, I saw the news that day just after I came from the dentist so it really hit home The first paragraph is worth quoting The Brooklyn Museum is about to unveil a shocking Contemporary art exhibition that features real animals sliced in half Graphic paintings and sculpture of corpses and sexually mutilated bodies The R rated show is sparking outrage over such works as a painting of the Virgin Mary splattered with elephant tongue and Not to be outdone the post screamed is this art Butchered animals a dunce mirrored Mary and giant genitalia Spark outrage at the Brooklyn Museum The Catholic League our own Bishop here in Brooklyn and the Cardinal Despite the fact that I tried to speak to all of them Denounced the painting and the exhibition There were huge demonstrations outside the museum such as this one both and pro and con that hourly Came and went in front of the museum We also had hourly coverage by the newspaper and Kate by excuse me by cable TV Congress debated sensation and defunded the exhibition Although they had never funded it in the first place It just tells you something Comedy Central and every I've always wanted to be on television I'm not sure this way Comedy Central and every late night TV host featured me and the exhibition For weeks on end But most seriously the then mayor of New York Rudy Giuliani who is an undeclared war For the Senate against Hillary Clinton and also without seeing the exhibition Which was several weeks away from opening Said that the Ophelia offended him And that the museum had to remove the painting of the holy virgin Mary from the exhibition Or he would demand that the exhibition be canceled And in short order Giuliani proceeded without authority because that's the city council's authority Not the mayor's office to remove seven million dollars in city operating funds From the museum and almost 30 million dollars in capital funds He then tried to replace the museums obviously out of control board of trustees and director And to evict the museum from its century long City home in which we are sitting tonight All this supposedly over one painting However, it was a painting about which the publisher of the Amsterdam news The largest black owned and run newspaper in the country wrote a black Madonna Giuliani's worst nightmare And speaking of the Amsterdam news Who supported the exhibition and the museum from the beginning to its end Other than more local papers such as Newsday and the village voice and several others The major new york papers attacked the museum Over and over with false statements that had almost entirely been thrown out by the courts No, here we go Represented by the great constitutional lawyer floyd abrams Who I can't see anyone in the audience So I don't know if floyd is here tonight or not if he there who is The real the real hero of sensation and so many other constitutional battles in this country and I Floyd knows how much I'm grateful to him as we all were Um With floyd's representation We sued rudy Giuliani both in his capacity as mayor and personally In federal court a process that took almost six months from filing to settlement During those six months, however, my bodyguard taught me defensive driving Um, I refused to wear a bulletproof vest because it made me look fat And instead of letting my office know or me know immediately About a threat that morning to blow up my car with me in it A note was sent to me by inter-office mail Which arrived the next day More importantly the brooklyn museum became The most talked about museum in the world Um I think we're going to do more of this story But I leave it more to my conversation with darin Now these were the highlights Um, this is what I spend Many nights every week even now thinking about Um And so now you can join me in that by reading this book Yes, thank you I give you arnold layman So arnold I mean this was a seminal moment in art history and political history In The battle for free expression in new york What do you think today Are The implications for Sensation both. I know you're not a legal scholar. We have the great float abrams but How do you see today the relevance of that The resolution in your favor And the whole idea of free expression Validated both in the court of law and the court of public opinion Um A perfect question darin. Um, I didn't expect anything else um The problem is that while the courts validated that of course I'm not sure public opinion Really accepted that validation Uh, perhaps in new york But in other parts of the country, I'm not so positive Um And to me what has become Very clear Over the past Well, this is 22 years ago, but certainly over the past 10 years or more Is that There has been so much self-censorship A people who Have a lot to say Who work in museums and other educational institutions Um Who are fearful about The implication of their words how their words are received and What might happen to their tenure What might happen to their exhibitions What might happen to their novel or their piece in a journal and And built in Certainly over the past. I don't want to I don't want us to become a political form But built into the past four or five years I think there is a fear that while Even the people who are most committed to free expression Pull back And and Try to balance more What they say When they would not have Perhaps done that 20 years ago 30 years ago Um And that that's a really a cautionary tale to say the least um I know many actually it was fascinating Uh, the sondra mentioned some I know many museums Um who have taken a step back and not Not included things and exhibitions That they might have And we heard about things being demanded to be withdrawn from major museums including New York City Which in my belief, you know, I'm I'm not a a rabble rouser, but I think You have to learn how to say no And This is what we believe. This is what's right I mean, that is very much why I wrote this book And there's only one answer and that's the right answer If you can afford to give it When you came to brooklyn You Before sensation You were a disruptor There was no doubt allowed to say that there was no doubt that You had a vision That was most certainly not In alignment with some of your peers across the river You had a more radical idea as you said of really thinking about brooklyn and serving this community With the most excellent Programming and exhibitions and if you did that You would attract people from across the river and around the world And you did that Do you feel validated by By the success and take up of some of your ideas I recall one exhibition. Well, I recall one interview with a museum director who shall go nameless Who criticized you for Inviting the community for dance parties Because you felt that the community liked to have dance parties and the museum Was a great place And you were criticized for that And now everyone has dance parties I was at a dance party at the whitney for julie marrattu I was at a dance party at The med for carrie james marshal So do you feel on all that some of the the the criticism some of the stinging critiques you received during those days Do you feel validated now That again, that's a very big word and um, you know, I don't I don't Kind of think of myself in those terms Um But over the years You know, I've seen the critics Embrace What we've been doing here in brooklyn. In fact, what we had done in baltimore for for good while as well um You may recall darin that one of my first exhibitions here was Uh an exhibit called roots rhymes and rage Which was the first exhibition done about hip-hop and um The media just condemned the museum and me Me first And while While there that condemnation was out there The museum was swamped With people who never set foot in the museum before And not necessarily Who you might think from the community It was it turned out to be perhaps An audience that was two-thirds white And one third made up of people of color But I'll never forget a young blonde man Who told me he was at juliard And he was um a pianist And he Was a great Fan of two-pack Shakur And he said that We had in the exhibition um two packs Notations For many of the much of the music he wrote And this young man jazz pianist Said he stood in front of it and cried I don't quite know what more you could want than that Seven years later The smithsonian did a hip-hop exhibition And it was entirely embraced by every newspaper Certainly every newspaper in washington dc, which is a tough crowd So That Was a great memory in this path To Trying to Create more community-centered Institutions I also have one other memory which i'm glad my children aren't here But you're my wife. My wife is here There she is for for hip-hop We did a first saturday a big first saturday event And I went out to address The crowd and before I I got halfway on stage And Oh my god Cool j. What was this? L. L. Cool j. Thank you. It didn't take me long l l cool j grabbing me by the hand Pulled my pants halfway down Gave me his hat which he put on backwards And he said You go out there and you say is brooklyn in the house With your pants halfway down Well luckily i'm not i'm not so thin that they would fall down And I did we had we had um, I think four thousand three Almost four thousand people In the court just around the corner And I had a thunderous Yes to that and then cool j yelled at me said ask it again and That night the museum became a community center It's a great story on old Okay, let's talk about writing this book So we just mentioned pam and of course we know that pam was the copious archivist for Everything that was in the media Much of what we saw tonight was pam's production you Had to have had ptsd or something in writing this book I mean, what was the process for you? Well, I waited nearly 20 years um, both when I had more time I could focus and that More material I could access more material, but not a lot because in the midst of it The city had a lockdown as and all of its research materials that I needed were Locked away somewhere But as you said Pamela kept day by day hour by hour notes for six months And recorded everything that could be recorded We bought every newspaper every morning And she clipped Everything there was I mean it looked like swiss cheese by the time the papers were finished We actually bought two New York Times and sometimes two of other newspapers because the articles were back to back and that wouldn't work And it was that research Pam's notes and and I have to thank you and the Ford Foundation for a grant to hire a researcher editor Who was key? To keeping me organized. He might be here tonight, too Um Rob Kulak. Hi Rob um and So I really do believe without without Fords Well, it's true. I'm the book might not be here tonight. I might be I might be here, but the book might not be And um It was I'm not a terribly organized person Uh Pam and Rob are very organized. So I uh sat at my computer Um for very long intervals um Sometimes doing other things Because it was I'm I've never talked about uh sensation really before before tonight It was really hard. Was it painful for you? It was Why? Because every every page everything in the book brought back memories of My staff at the museum all thinking they were going to be fired Of our curators wondering what was going to happen to the objects If in fact Giuliani evicted us. I mean we talked about the world's greatest yard sale um Which it would have been say the least The Every moment of every day of the exhibition It was it was not just the external forces, but the internal forces Of our staff Being so upset. How did you deal with the stress? I would imagine we had I don't know how many staff members Are here today who were here how many of you are staff who were here? 20 years ago, we have a few bma staff Is there a Some conservators there that I see I don't know but in any event There were these pressures Because it was one of the most difficult exhibitions to put together In the book I tell a story about our art handlers opening crates and finding legs and arms from works that They didn't know where they were to be put and had sculpture in the show minus arms and legs That we never found and Art handlers who are committed to their job and conservators who are really committed to their job don't like arms and legs just sort of around and about And they come to the museum director and talk about that. What are we going to do? There was also As we installed the exhibition which took most of september of 1999 Charles sachi Who I'd like to applaud As an extraordinary collector extraordinary collector Who literally gave Great britain back a contemporary art scene But he was here every day all these were his objects and Everything we did Was often or many things we did with not to his liking Um, what didn't he like? well, um, we prefer labels On objects especially objects that you would find it difficult To necessarily understand by just looking at them Charles wanted either no labels or labels On the floor like tinted labels on the floor Which I never forget Debra Schwartz who was our then director of education thought would create um constant Waterfalls of people falling over onto the floor Looking at these labels or falling into the works of art And so we had this ongoing Battle of that or where the objects would be When we were concerned about the Madonna um, and the threats About the Madonna We moved it to an alcove Because we thought that alcove Would be more secure And I really wasn't given a choice our director of security Who is here? I don't know if he's in the room tonight, but um said there's no way that we should have that just Immediately available to the public and they wanted it more guarded um, and we in fact installed A 20-foot high 16-foot wide piece of plexiglass I didn't even know they made plexiglass that big in front of it um and um My friend Charles Sachi was absolutely appalled that we were keeping it from the public I mean he was very much into the public experiencing the work but His is a private museum was a private museum And this is a public museum and london was a different town with a different mayor Exactly all of the above So every I I did a chapter on Sort of what could go wrong. Yes like oh, you just saw it on the screen the The mark when a blood head with his own blood Um had two Freezers in the base. Of course, we received it and they were Uh appropriate for a british electrical system So we had quickly to revise the elect the electricity issues um and we were I don't think that Many people in the conservation department certainly not I Slept at night worrying about this um and indeed Later in the exhibition A um an engineer working on the roof Um saw an electric switch, which he thought was to the warmers on the roof And instead it was the key electric switch to the freezers In the mark when sculpture um are at that point head of Um conservation um Rushed to it and I'm not quite sure what he did But he saved the work and um It would be awful to return a work of art to the artist in a In a pot rather than a Yes, that would not Be a good idea. Not not not very good. Um and The the we also had this which a lot of people would be Thrilled and proud to have Um endless crowds crowds over three and four or five hours. You talk about this in the book. I mean you you I mean unprecedented well the problem Was not the problem was we couldn't get people To leave the exhibition um because the museum really The wasn't prepared and didn't really have a history of doing the kinds of exhibitions Like this so you didn't have the systems in place Well the way museums do today to move people through absolutely true But also which in this instance at least Was more significant to me certainly Was that people Had such engagement with so many of the works of art that they Couldn't bring themselves Richard Billingham was a great British photographer had a very um um a difficult family history and he portrayed his family and others in a very large installation and people Who had similar situations? Stood in front of this wall and cried That's what art is supposed to do well But you can't ask someone in the midst of tears to leave That's not very polite And we had people in front of the in front of the dead dad all over the floor Measuring themselves Against this half-size nude figure which was one expression of interest that I didn't understand but That whole area was completely filled with bodies all over the floor and people couldn't get in and couldn't get out So It was one thing after another and how in the midst of this did you manage your board? I mean, you know sometimes managing boards Uh, I you know, we have a number of board members who were there then and I have to say This board was extraordinary They well first. Let me take one step back.  I'm sure there are many board members who were not enthusiastic as enthusiastic about this as they might have been another exhibition But they stood behind the museum they stood behind me um and bob and I remember when we voted To sue juliani. There was only one negative vote And that was the representative of the mayor The the the acting mayor who was the the mayor was a Ex officio board member with voting rights Um, he was the only person who voted not to sue the mayor obviously Did the mayor or later When he was no longer mayor Apologize to you It's not a it's it. I mean given the fact that uh, you were clearly wronged And clearly mistreated I would think an honorable person might consider Apologizing to you hono Well, darren you might forget This on the part of the city was called a landlord tenant dispute um No, but but I'd like to take that one step back because On july 14th, which I write about as Bastille day um Although I retained my head um After weeks and weeks of trying to meet with the mayor before He said anything about the exhibition We were trying to meet with him To get his support for a new entrance the new entrance that you all came through today um and bob rubin and I and um Another staff member or two from the museum Met with the mayor. We were told that we'd have 15 minutes We actually spent almost an hour there I showed slides of sensation I did not show The holy virgin mary because it was never it never came In all the publicity in the uk and in berlin. It was barely ever mentioned um 600 pages Of press I got from The royal academy. It was Mentioned three or four times um At the end of this discussion, there was a lot of laughter over a number of the works Which I completely understand that was not a cabinet made up of art historians um We got up to leave the mayor shook hands with bob Patented me on the back Um and said to his lieutenants Give them what they want. They're all good guys um And that's what Has been ringing in my ears For 22 years every july 14 I remember that give them what they want. They're good guys Um, so they answer your questions. No, I never received an apology So what would you say today? um, you spoke about your concern That some are Restraining themselves our self censoring um How do we square the need for heightened sensitivity Which is needed I mean, I think it I appreciate that We want to be more more sensitive to each other And that sometimes manifests in inquiry in reflection in Sometimes Asking questions before making Choices or decisions. How do we square that? I mean, we've certainly in the last year Seen examples of the challenge of squaring that What happens in a museum When an exhibition that is planned By an all-white curatorial staff Featuring art that may have black men hanging from trees No one on the team ever asked any of the black staff or the guards Who would be To spend more time than anyone with that art What their view was How do we as museums and as a society Engage in the kind of Muscular free expression that A thriving democracy must promote and protect With the need to be sensitive To what has historically been insensitivity on the part of museums How do we reconcile that? Well, I I can only respond For me And the response to that is more voices More and more voices other voices Who help to determine What a museum What a theater What a university Should stand for and I think that that's An imperative it doesn't mean that it's A collective vote it doesn't mean that university presidents just sort of You know, I have no have no authority any longer or museum directors or chief curators or But it does mean That they're not doing their jobs Unless they ask these questions And the responses come from The world that's around us Not the world that necessarily sits in your office Or it isn't that the way museums have historically I mean the the museums Have historically been organized and in fact The teaching of the canon the the process for credentialing is very hierarchical As you know from which is an understanding I mean it's very hierarchical and it has historically privileged Whiteness it has historically privileged Perspectives and and and has often Treated with the erasure or Invisibilizing those I mean we give I always give the example of The Metropolitan Museum which has In its curatorial wisdom With this great American wing that was built With all of the wonderful Georgian furniture and the Stuart and all of the great art Made the decision that the Native American collection Belonged in the primitive gallery That was a curatorial decision And it was only four years ago That the curators decided that actually The Native American collection Belonged in the American wing of the Metropolitan Museum That was a curatorial that was the training of curators And so I applaud the Met for Gaining a level of both sensitivity as well as Aesthetic appreciation Because it's not political correctness. It was in fact Great art That Native Americans produced That was not appreciated But it is I think today And I think this that the more voices that they listen to Allow them to see as you say That in fact They needed to make that move But it's a long It's a long road because I mean I spent I was part of the association of art museum directors for 40 years and People I think got tired of me first Talking about Why are there so few women In this organization And I said you know why I mean like the fellow who said I don't need to come to the royal academy but I can get that at home There were no there were almost no women A few standout But Even they Were reluctant To advocate For their own gender And so I did that very regularly Um They soon stopped asking me to run programs at a a md I did a similar project That I felt was critical Just at the height of the AIDS epidemic And um The the organization simply refused to believe That There were any Gay or lesbian members whether there were very few lesbian members because there were a few women Um In the organization And once we got past that uh, I began A kind of endless discussion about That this profession needs to Relate To the world around us By having Some way Of bringing more Um museum directors of color Into this not just this group. They don't have to be a member of this group But just there directing institutions Similarly for curators And I had the great good fortune when I was a ford fellow Um to start working on a project Towards that end which Um, I was very glad to see that you and Alice Walton has really moved forward. Um But we all know it's very slow In doing this and it has to speed up Well, I think it is speeding up. I mean when you look at the most recent appointments There's some really encouraging views. I've gotten to be fairly old And I'd like to see More change More quickly And with that it's time for questions of Arnold layman So please I think we um have some time for a few questions And I believe the protocol Is that you can just Stand up and uh, or there's a microphone here. Should you wish to speak into a microphone? Um, but we're keen to hear Arnold is keen to hear from you if you have a question, please We have two Please would it have mattered who did the art? So they so the let's restate in the example of the art That had black men Hanging Had the artist not been white. I mean for example are different. Would it have mattered? Would it have mattered? Well, I think there's a very specific Example not with lynching scenes per se um, but in The long postpone gustin exhibition Um at the national gallery and it was traveling to two or three other places Yeah, exactly. Thank you The the representation by gustin and a number of his paintings of klu Klux Klan members Took Many people who were working in and around that exhibition Um, it was very startling to them. I don't know everyone knew they were there. We've seen them for years um And there was a lot of jumping to conclusions of what gustin meant by all of this um And As darin said at that point the curatorial team that was working on this was entirely white um At least the leadership was entirely white and To their I wish they it's again. I feel like I'm running out of time, but I wish they had solved this Without simply postponing this. I wish they had thought about it before The exhibition was put forward and so that Uh, uh a staff a curatorial staff made up of diverse members Uh could have helped to talk through What gustin was about what this meant to the best that they could interpret it um And the challenge was the national gallery our national gallery of art Financed with our taxpayer dollars Has had 71 curators 71 white curators There was not an asian curator There was not a latinx curator the entire curatorial staff was white They were at a disadvantage Because they lacked the diversity That could have in that context did what you Described in an institution that has that had historically Not presented. Um, I mean in this entire history. There were two American-Americans who had retrospectives So It's an it's an example of how institutions who have history Are often caught flat-footed and lack the resilience That's needed in the face of crisis And we saw a lot of that Because this the gustin postponement happened in the middle Well, not the middle weeks after the george floyd murdered when so many institutions in this country were caught flat-footed And looking around on their boards on the executive teams and saying Who can help us? navigate this moment And for so many institutions including the national gallery of art and many other museums As we saw from what happened at museums In the wake of those murders I Do indulge me for a moment. Um, I I'm To tell another story about the national gallery For those of you who are long time members of the brooklyn museum, you might remember Back at the beginning of this century Um, we did a quite extraordinary Exhibition of Jean-Michel Basquiat Um, I knew that it was going to be an important Exhibition And I offered it to the national gallery The response I got I'll shorten the response But the issue Was that they didn't do exhibitions of drug addicts I mean, it's just another way they didn't do exhibitions of drug addicts That was the response that I got um And certainly there were no artists in the Collection of the national gallery who had any drug or addiction issues None whatsoever None whatsoever Um, wow Well, that's really interesting data point there Um, we have two questions here and a third. Yes, sir. And then this nice lady here, please So, Arnold, you mentioned That's loud. You mentioned that you had to learn self-defense Did you ever hatch you have to use it? More into the mic. I couldn't hear it. You said you had to learn self-defense Did you ever have to use it? What I said was that I learned defensive driving And I would really have liked to use that Um, but if you ever tried To make a u-turn on a one-way brooklyn street In the slope or in brooklyn heights and go the other way because someone is running at you With a gun coming The way you were driving none of that ever happened But that was what was described to me and I was told that you have to forget I said, but I could get a ticket You could lose your life, Arnold. Well, and that is what and that is what My really wonderful A bodyguard told me he said when when life and limb Are of concern tickets are No matter so But I didn't I I actually Had to run When I could run I had to run away from a number of people Um, a woman who attacked me on the street near my house I had other people come up to me in the subway Screaming this happened many many times I was never I was never Physically accosted but when someone is standing like that and yelling at you. It's the same It's the same thing. So no, I I I wish he had taught me some defensive, you know moves, but No I'm Hello, Arnold. Darren. Great talk. Um, I have a Let's see if I could put this together I'm going back to the Philip Gustin piece, which was very offensive. Would you argue that That if there was a more diverse Round table around the curatorial, you know, the curation of that shell That they might have been and with people of color included that they might have been a way of Showcasing such rework with something That can have a like basically creating art an art conversation with art instead of You know just being that one solid piece that sort of Defines that moment and takes over the room and takes the oxygen out of the room But something else that counters it and maybe makes a more rounded argument so that people can Experience both sides of the table Am I making sense? Yes, and I think part of what you're also getting at is how Shows get organized right so There is a template that has existed for decades The way in which shows get organized. They're conceptualized. They and this is all led by curatorial staff generally Who are often the generators of the idea? Conceptualize it Execute work with the director on And the development office on raising the money for it because hopefully you've got some trustees who will help All of that. I mean that is part of the process but When that process doesn't include As you say, sir, no diversity No engagement except In the case certainly of gustin a group of white curators working in conference rooms and in Finding some really amazing works of which of course, you know, the gallery has many And in the case of sensation The exhibition was organized by The what was called the exhibition secretary of the royal academy who was an amazing man who had done scores of important exhibitions And it was entirely drawn And that was the idea. It was entirely drawn from that one collection So although there was some diversity in that exhibition It wasn't I would say that was not the point of the exhibition or the result And the There were many levels of challenges One was The challenge that it all came from one private collector um another Was that the I don't quite know how to put this That It felt that the that private collector had too much power over What was in the exhibition and how it was presented? I think what was shocking To him And we had had a quite good relationship was How often When the show is being installed here We said no We're not doing it this way We're not Labels were among the least problem Because he was a controlling collector Yes, very much so and was able to do that at the royal academy in monday He knew more about These artists than anyone in great britain anyone in the world um And so the deference that he was shown, of course Was at that point Not terribly Unusual um I don't know if it was just before just after the royal academy did a great massaccio Exhibition And those collectors were also shown major deference But dealing with contemporary art And which affects very much is affecting what is happening at that moment in a city like london or new york um I think there needs to be If we're doing it over again There would be more thoughtful conversation We would include everything that was in the exhibition We might include more And we certainly Wanted to make sure that we provided enough information That people were able To understand what they were seeing So we have one last question from this nice lady Okay, thank you great question You hit on something which I should have mentioned and that is that for Many weeks we couldn't get telephone call in or out because all of our lines were blocked by our friends at the catholic league by Hundreds not thousands of people calling it specifically to prevent people from being able to buy tickets to the exhibition People couldn't use their phones We were very late in the adoption of the internet Because we were I was Before I came here. I think there wasn't a great Commitment to the idea of it But after I got here The other part of that commitment it was the amount of money it cost To really network an institution like this Where curators have scattered throughout a gigantic building With these incredible concrete walls separating everyone So there was very little that got changed afterwards, but there was very little communication as you said between curators people weren't really able to Help absorb the fear that someone else might have except in our staff meetings And those staff meetings were held in the galleries where the works were and We tried very hard to get people to feel free and open and it was It was To me at least as director very hard to listen to what so many people were going through and This kind of battery Which was going on every day It affects people differently People who loved and worked in this institution over 20 years 25 years and guards Who've been here forever Would hear from their friends in their neighborhoods. What is this stuff? that you're showing at the museum and They didn't quite know what to say and we worked very hard the education department I great credit Spent an enormous amount of time trying to bring our guards and other non curatorial people Into a better understanding of what was being shown It was a very fraught time And I did say in the book The only time I heard people laugh in the galleries Is when I said before when they opened up cases and there happened to be legs and arms in there when they were supposed to be a painting And they it was kind of a nervous laugh um They were just everyone was afraid every day looking for looking for Joy in some way exactly Arnold what happened to the collection mr. Sachi's collection Well that despite um the newspaper accounts and um All of the criticism two things happened um Most of that collection Charles Sachi so owns today. He was heavily criticized for buying and selling Scores of works of art and then selling them at a profit um But most of his works remained in his collection except remarkably The museum of modern art owns The holy virgin mary That's the vindication arnold. I was talking about well and for I'm not I can't tell you for certain But for a number of years The shark Had its own gallery at the metropolitan museum And the director there somehow totally Was Transformed and this became such an important work of art Against which to look at the other great works of art In the metz collection Yes, that's That is Another way in which you have influenced American art and american art institutions. Please join me in thanking arnold layman the author of sensation and I believe Arnold is going to stick around And sign books. We have books for sale and they just arrived yesterday Just in time for tonight. I believe arnold We're going to have people Join us on stage here if they want to line up come up. Yes, and you're going to go over there I'm going to stay here. Oh, you want to stay here? Thank you arnold's going to stay here You all will come up And there'll be a procession to give you love adoration and admiration and darin and I are going to sign them jointly And with that everybody, thank you so much for coming Darin, you took the words right out of my mouth Please line up and get your book. I read the book in its entirety and I absolutely recommend it. It is amazing Enjoy and thank you Thank you


Good afternoon and thank you for tuning in. I'm Elizabeth Zapampe with Disabled American Veterans and today we'll be talking about registration for the next DAV Patriot Bootcamp. The robust multi-day program for entrepreneurs in the military and veteran community is heading to MX headquarters in Lehigh, Utah from May 18th to May 20th and applications are now open. To talk more about this, I'm joined by DAV Chief Communications and Outreach Officer, Dan Clare and special guest, Don Parker. Don is the Executive Vice President of Partnerships at MX, a company building the largest open finance ecosystem to help drive innovation and improve experiences through secure and reliable access to financial data. While at MX, Don has worked with the leading digital banking providers in the US and Canada that offer MX services to their customers and has also served as Director of the Association for Financial Technology, a resource for networking and professional development for companies and professional serving US financial institutions. Thank you both for being here and welcome. Thanks for having me. Don, if I can start with you. So MX has long been a partner and good friend of DAV Patriot Bootcamp. Can you tell us a little bit about that history and why this is something MX supports? Yeah, absolutely. MX has always really been a champion of these types of causes and in particular, right from the beginning even our founder, Ryan Caldwell, attended Air Force Academy and we have several other key members of our company that are ex-military or who have served in the different services. And so it's always been a focus for us to want it to give back. And certainly we recognize where most of our rights and our liberties come from as it relates to starting and owning a business. And so this is a way not only to help for the growth of our business, but to help perpetuate that for other entrepreneurs as well. And so as I mentioned, this next DAV Patriot Bootcamp event will be held at MX headquarters in Lehigh, Utah. Don, can you tell us what past events that MX have been like and a little bit about this area known as the Silicon Slopes? Yeah, absolutely. Well, maybe I start with the Silicon Slopes just at a high level for many of you who are familiar with the Silicon Valley or the Silicon Prairie. Silicon Slopes was coined really as a slogan to promote not only the entrepreneurial atmosphere here for tech companies, but also promote Utah's and ski resorts. And so not only are we the home to many tech companies, startups and entrepreneurs, but we also host an annual summit that brings together industry leaders, investors and innovators to discuss and showcase the latest trends and developments in the tech sector. So that spirit really just carries right over to why we feel that this is an incredible venue for the Patriot Bootcamp because it really carries that same theme which is stitched right through the event. And Dan, this is the first Patriot Bootcamp under DAV outside of our national headquarters. What are you most looking forward to and what do you think will be special about this event? Well, the area sounds gorgeous and MX has been with Patriot Bootcamp for longer. DAV has MX actually sponsored the event that inspired DAV really to get involved with Patriot Bootcamp beyond sponsorship. So it sounds gorgeous. It looks like we're planning some activities. We're gonna go up to Sundance and the mountains which sounds beautiful, possibly release some eagles we're talking about. It should be a really exciting event. It looks like a gorgeous place. Great facilities there at MX headquarters and a great expertise that we can tap into not just in MX but with all their partners and our friends in that area. So as I mentioned, applications are available now at PatriotBootcamp.org. They're open through Monday, March 20th. Dan, who can apply and what should they know about the application process? Most of the founders are tech oriented. Of course, tech extends to many different areas in a company. We're talking mostly founders, military. We call it the veteran and military connected community and we wanna make sure people know that includes spouses. So spouses can apply founders. Sometimes we have couples who apply who are both working on the same venture. To know about the process, it's not that hard to sign up. Tell us what you know, try and be as complete as possible but it's not a bad application process. We just want people to get on there and get involved and sign up as soon as you can. And these events rely on business leaders and mentors bringing their expertise to participants. It's kind of a secret sauce of DAV Patriot Bootcamp. Dan, can you talk about the type of folks who have served as mentors in the past and how those interested in mentoring can get involved? Mentorship is, it's like the mentorship and networking are two things that go beyond DAV's ability to control them to an extent but we have a great community of people who have participated and they're the highest ranked two things from people when we survey them after the event. Most of the folks we have involved is a lot of people with a tech background. Of course, especially we'll see that I'm sure at MX. We're talking about CEOs, people who are serial entrepreneurs, attorneys, folks who are in marketing and branding, people who are well versed in finance and funding. It's people who've been experienced around entrepreneurs mostly who can just help people through some of the troubles that they might have initially, share some of their mistakes and be vulnerable together so that people can kind of accelerate where they're at with their venture. And can you talk a little bit more, Dan, about what the mentoring looks like? It's not just you'll get a chance to meet a mentor. You are paired one-on-one with multiple mentors. Can you talk about that? Yeah, it really looks like speed dating in a way less romantic, but equally valuable or more valuable that we do. It's, we have two hour sessions full of mentorship and you'll meet with up to a mentor or a participant would meet with up to, I think it's four or eight different mentor, or different mentors. And we do need mentors. I didn't mention that before, but please, if you're interested in mentoring, email us at info at patriotboocamp.org. We'd love to have folks, more folks come in and sign up for that as well. And I just want to clarify or make it clear. So the deadline to apply to participate as an entrepreneur is Monday, March 20th. For those interested in mentorship, you don't have to have to express interest by then. I think, is the deadline April and April, Dan? April 3rd, I believe. April 3rd. The deadline for mentors.  Get in touch with us. If you can't do it in Lehigh, maybe you can do it in another event. We'll keep you plugged in. Great. I'll open this question to either Dan or Don, both of you can chime in. How would you describe this Patriot Boot Camp community? Dan, do you want to take a first shot at that? I can, Don, and I don't want to steal your thunder, but MX is a big part of the Patriot Boot Camp community. Don McDonald has been a huge mentor speaker. He's been involved in the leadership of the event. Patriot Boot Camp, we're talking probably 6,000 people, at least 5,000 of those folks. Some of them have served, some of them haven't, haven't participated in the program as alumni. 1,500 or so are alumni. And it's just a group of great people who are committed to helping their fellow entrepreneurs succeed, great mentors. And folks, it's just unbelievable how you can count on them when we call out to folks to volunteer, participate, run different aspects of the program. So it's a great community. And, Don, I'm sure you've had some great experiences with the community as well. Yeah, absolutely. I think success is a combination of different things. And certainly, it's important. You mentioned the mentoring that they get. It's important to have the resources to build a successful technology business. But the difference here is not only are you fostering economic growth and innovation, but you're also able to do it while honoring these individuals for their service and sacrifice at the same time. And I think that really is an important blend. That makes this a very unique experience as it relates to the greater good. Yeah, I'll also say, we say this is a multi-day, three-day program. We hear from a lot of people, though, as it goes well beyond that, right? There's a lot of networking, and people stay in touch over years. So I think that makes it great as well. Any closing thoughts from either of you? Maybe I'll go, and then I'll let you finish up, Dan. I think, look, first of all, and the foremost important part of this is just to all of the men, women, and families of our armed forces just thank you. And secondly, I can't share how excited we are really to kick things off this year, because as has been mentioned, this is an incredible opportunity that will lead not just to a great weekend, but to many memorable and successful years ahead. So we look forward to it. The thing to add is this can be a life-changing experience for people. It really can. Our last cohort, people were so happy that everyone we surveyed, every single participant we surveyed, said that they would return for an alumni event. And our net promoter score was 100. So it's people who go to the event, love the event. They get tapped in. A cohort becomes its own community. You've got to sign up and experience the event. And I hope people will. And even if you can't attend the event, please share this link, share other messages or other traffic out there to get folks to register. The more folks we get to apply, the better chance that we'll be able to serve a full 50-person cohort. And the higher the quality of the people we get in there, the better the experience of everyone involved. So get involved. Visit patreonboocamp.org and sign up or tell someone else to sign up. Great. Dan, thank you. Dan, thank you so much for joining us today and for MX's continued support of DAV Patriot Bootcamp. Thank you all for watching. Again, the next bootcamp will be held May 18th to May 20th in Lehigh, Utah at MX headquarters. Applications are open now through Monday, March 20th. Learn more and apply at patreonboocamp.org. Learn more about MX at mx.com. Thank you.


Have you ever seen a movie where you didn't expect it to be nearly as good as it was? That's this movie for me. I mean, I love the Pokemon series up to when May was around of the TV show and the video games I've always enjoyed. But I wasn't expecting this to be as good as it turned out to be, at least for me, because video game movies traditionally suck. The only ones that I really thought are good are the Mortal Kombat movie, which, yeah, I know people say, ooh, it's PG-13, net, all right, QBI. It was made in the 90s, I don't care. The Tomb Raider movie that came out, and then sort of rampage, and I say sort of because I didn't enjoy it as much, but it was still entertaining. Yeah, but Detective Pikachu was really freaking good. If you like the Pokemon series, you'll like this movie, you should go and check it out if you haven't. This is one of those, you can go into it, you're gonna know who the villain is almost as soon as he's introduced. There's really no way around that, it's just how the movie's set up.  If not, you're probably not gonna enjoy it nearly as much as I did. But, yeah, now, this movie, there are a number of predictable things about it. It is very much a child's type of film, and in terms of who's gonna enjoy this the most, that kids who like Pokemon, adults who like Pokemon are also gonna enjoy it. Maybe not to the same extent, but as it stands now, I think that it's a great movie that honestly any fan of Pokemon should see. And, as a video game movie, it's just as good. That's pretty much all I have to say on the film. Alright, so that's actually gonna be all that I have for today, guys. Like, comment, subscribe, tell a friend about the video. You can follow me both on Twitter and Instagram, which are gonna be on my links in the description down below. And, as always guys, peace out.


We're going to see a transfer of over $100 trillion over the next 10 years into native digital assets. So if you want to move into Bitcoin, we need to have people believe in the morality of decentralizing money. We believe that most millennials are going to own Bitcoin and crypto assets as part of their investment strategies. When we're thinking about the future, Itoro firmly believes in the combination and connection between crypto assets and equities. So the majority of our clients trade both cryptocurrencies as well as stocks on the platform. So I think that's definitely a trend that we'll see sort of continuing in the future. I think a lot of people will want to manage their investments in one account. We're also big believers in the future of blockchain technology for the back end of finance. And that's going to still take a while. I believe that all financial assets are eventually going to be transformed into the blockchain in one form or another. So we're going to see a transfer of over $100 trillion over the next 10 years into native digital assets. I'm curious to know your thoughts on regulations and compliance because I think that's a huge element in order to actually make this a reality. We've always been regulated as a securities broker-dealer, right? So that's where we started our companies as a regulated investment firm. We always treated crypto as a regulated financial asset, whether or not it is defined as a regulated financial asset. In some jerks, in some it isn't, in some it isn't. It doesn't matter. We think you need to make sure you treat clients fairly. You know how to custody assets. I think there's always a challenge because of the fragmentation in the industry of various regulators almost in every country. You have two or three different regulators trying to figure out under which regulator crypto eventually falls. But I think it's inevitable that we'll see more regulation. I think Itoro is a bridge between the old world and the new world. We are a fintech company, but we adhere by all rules and regulations. We are regulated in multiple continents and we always play by the rules. I think that's important. That's the role we have to play to get people into crypto but in a responsible, compliant way until other macro things that are bigger than us will happen and will take us to a future that is more decentralized. DeFi is a bit of a wild west right now. No regulation, no real financial institutions, but a lot of amazing innovation. I think we're going to see a lot of that innovation going into traditional or regulated financial institutions, centralized companies to be able to offer that innovation directly to consumers. I'm assuming it's probably a good thing that we're seeing more institutions come into the space. 100 percent. It's not just institutions, it's not just seen hedge funds and even companies like Square and whatnot allocated into crypto. It's also the diffusion between pop culture and crypto. So we've seen SNL doing NFT skit. We've seen Chipotle on National Burrito Day giving the prize out in Bitcoin. That would cause mass adoption. If these brands are talking about crypto, it would cause mass adoption. What do you hope to see in the crypto space happen, the crypto and blockchain space happen in the next coming years? I think the Bitcoin as the king of crypto I think is here to stay. I'll be surprised if we don't see a significant rise in the price of Bitcoin over the next three to five years as still five billion people in the world. That basically don't really have a good local currency. I think smart contracts and everything we're seeing in DeFi, I think this is really just the beginning. It's the infancy of how financial services is going to look like in the future. I think one thing that needs to be solved and hopefully within the next 12 to 18 months is scalability of blockchain protocols. How can we see large scale, like whether it's Ethereum 2.0 or things like other blockchains. How can we really see that scale to the number of transactions that we're seeing in the traditional industry like Visa and Mastercard? Money is stories we tell ourselves about the future and it's the fabric that connects all of us in a way. And currently the fiat system is based on number of things that are fundamentally wrong. And so if you want to move into Bitcoin, we need to have people believe in the morality of decentralizing money. I think that the moral case for Bitcoin and teaching people that it is the right thing to do to basically separate state and money will ultimately create that vision that we all aspire to.


of the today's session is specific performance of affirmative and negative agreement. Section 42 of the specific relief act 1963. And before we ask Mr. Shingal Muldi, and I will just check as to whether madam, as we have always been writing on the advice, kindly maintain social distancing, go for the vaccination and don't go outside the home until unless it's quite mandatory for ensuring that you are at your home and maintaining safety. We are doing the webinars so that you do not simplicity. Read judgments, but they all say that the impression created by the audio and visual is always carries much better impression. And then this endeavor in tie up with legal rights groups from Madras where Ali Lakshmi, ma'am, is the main leader of that thought process. Somehow I suppose she has not joined in. But be that as it may, we will take those questions and ultimately we will also share the answers which Mr. Muldi has been finding out to. Ma'am's phone is coming. The only difficulty is that she would not be able to log in now. We will take the questions. We have shared the questions. We are also sharing the questions on the Zoom so that those who are not the members of the WhatsApp group, they can read the questions which we are reading for the facilitation. Because as they say, the pronunciation from state to state also varies. And therefore, in some case, I'm not saying that it could happen that the way we put the question or the answer, it comes in a different way than what it is reported to be. But our effort would be to speak in such a manner that you would be able to understand. And we all know that Mr. Muldi would be hammering the point straight, which is clear. The first question is Krishnan and Lakshmi are spouses. They are blessed with two sons, Shana Mogan and Kanan. Krishnan was retired, South Railway employee. He had purchased house property in Thillai Nagar from out of his funds. It is a self-acquired property. A family feud was propped up between Kanan and his families. Eventually Kanan executed a registered release deed in favor of Krishnan. After receiving a sum of rupees one lakh, Krishnan, while he was in sound disposing executed a registered will in favor of his wife Lakshmi for her life and ultimately in favor of his one son. Shana Mogan absolutely in respect of the house property situated in Thillai Nagar. Krishnan has also transferred a sum of at least 25 lakhs deposited by him in the State Bank of India. Thillai Nagar branch in favor of his wife Lakshmi after his demise. Data Krishnan died and on his death a force at free and last testament came into force. Mr. Shana Mogan wanted to sell the property at Thillai Nagar and the question is mother Lakshmi. To relinquish her life interest created in the will created by Krishnan accordingly. Krishnan executed a registered release deed relinquishing her life interest in favor of her son Shana Mogan stating that she had no objection to sell the suit property in Shana Mogan. There after Shana Mogan sold the house property at Thillai Nagar in favor of Moldi for a valuable consideration. He said registered sales was challenged by Kanan and he filed the suit to set aside the registered sale deed executed by Shana Mogan in favor of Moldi. In the written statement filed by Shana Mogan and Moldi they contended that the Kanan has no local standard to institute debaubness and further contended that there is no legal impediment to sell the suit property after the life state holder relinquished her life interest in the suit property. So before we take the question I will ask you because some students are also have joined this provision. We are sharing the YouTube link. So first explain like we have done since there are some youngsters also in this profession and we are happy that they are on the profile. What is the meaning of testament and then what will be the meaning of testament? First explain the testament and legal impediment. Two first two expressions people to understand for a common man. Yes sir. Are you asking the question to me? Yeah I am saying for common man kindly explain what is common. Testament is a will executed by a living person regarding the dispossession of his property after his demise. So it is a legacy that is his intention to back up the property. Will is defined under section two of the Indian Succession Act. And next word we have used is legal impediment. What do you mean by legal impediment and then we will take the question. Legal impediment of? What do you mean by legal impediment? Meaning of legal impediment. Legal impediment of what? Meaning meaning simplicity meaning of legal impediment. Legal impediment means suppose one executed a will the validity of the will and its enforceability it must be in consonance with the Indian Succession Act. Indian Succession Act. In the first in the instant case will was executed in favour of his wife for her life estate that is he can enjoy the property without any power of alienation and he backward the property absolutely in favour of his son. This is the intention of the executing test data. Now the point is once life estate is given whether the life estate colder can relinquish his right over the property. Is there any legal impediment to relinquish the life interest? Am I audible? Yeah now whether the life interest is transferable under the transfer of property act? Yes I will answer after my decision is over whether the life interest can be transferred whether life interest can be assigned whether life interest can be relinquished. I will answer with reference to the transfer of property act under the reported judgments. So this proposition we have read it sir can you explain in the first context this question whether the life interest of is transferable under the transfer of property act how do you go about it? Transfer of property act. No I have read the question and the issues would you explain the issues right now? I have read that question and should I read the issue so that you can answer it accordingly? Yes I have already given the issues and I will answer all the issues one by one with reference to the transfer of property act sections and the celebrated judgments of our High Court and Supreme Court. No I have read the question now we can take the issues you can explain the issues as such. Yep now how do you intend to go you are explaining the section? Yes but I will take my question and answer first okay. This is for the participants those who are not aware of the questions. The question is very simple.  So in the will one thing is very clear there is a life interest is created in favour of the wife and the absolute interest in favour of the son. Now in the instant case the mother who is the life estate holder relinquished his life interest over the property by way of executing your registered release deed in favour of his son. So the only bar imposed in the will is that the life interest holder has to enjoy the property only after the death of the life interest holder the beneficiary can enjoy the property absolutely. In as much as the life interest holder herself executed a registered relinquishment deed or release deed relinquishing his life interest over the property is there any legal impediment to relinquish the same. Now answer is section 6 h of the transfer of property act. Section 6 h, we are all aware transfer of property act deals with the transfer of property between inter vivas what can be transferred and what cannot be. Section 6 h states no transfer can be made in so far as it is opposed to the nature of the interest already created. So when interest is created over the property and subsequent transfer is opposed to the nature of the interest created no transfer can be made. So as per the plain meaning of section 2 h, 6 h of the transfer of property act the life interest cannot be transferred number one. Number two according to section 8 of the transfer of property act no transfer can be operated unless a different intention is expressed or necessarily implied. So in the instant case the will specifically states that the life estate holder has to enjoy the property till the death only after her demise the son will get the property absolutely. So there is no different intention either expressed or by necessary implication is implied. So even according to section 8 of the transfer of property act the life estate holder cannot transfer his life estate in favor of anyone including his son. Then third point is section 95 of the Indian succession act. Section 95 of the Indian succession acts says the legality that is the beneficiary is entitled to the whole interest of the estate or when the backquest is without words of any limitation. So in the absence of any conditions and in the absence of limitation debarring the legality from enjoying the property then only the legality will get the whole interest. So according to section 6 h and 8 of the transfer of property act and section 95 of the Indian succession act the life estate holder the life cannot surrender her interest in the property so as to accelerate its WSHA. So here the intention of the testator will play a very vital role. So the life estate holder cannot really use cannot release cannot surrender her life interest right over the property and the another point is in am I audible because sir in the instant case I have also pointed out the executed Christian has already deposited a sum of rupees 25 lakhs to be enjoyed by his wife Lakshmi. In some of the judgments if any life interest is created in favor of the wife it is for the purpose of maintenance. So the life interest will become absolute interest and the wife is entitled to sell the property here that is not the case because a separate provision has already been made for the to the wife for her maintenance. So here the life interest cannot be rivaled into absolute estate. So the life interest cannot be surrendered cannot be transferred and cannot be relinquished. This is the very important point. So shall we go to the next question. Mr. Srinivasan owned a residential property at Adhyar Chinnai. His wife Ratha pre-deceased him. Srinivasan had not been blessed with any child. Srinivasan has taken care by his book Poonamal and Driver Satya Murti. Srinivasan while he was in a sound disposing state of mind executed a registered will jointly in favor of Poonamal and Satya Murti that his residential property shall be enjoyed by them jointly after his demise. Thereafter Poonamal pre-deceased Srinivas leaving behind her her only son Rajendra. Like a Srinivasan died Rajendra demanded half share in the residential property of the Srinivasan. Against Satya Murti as per will created in favor of his mother and Satya Murti jointly. Satya Murti refused to accede to the claim of Rajendra. Rajendra filed a suit for partition of his undivided half share in property left by deceased Srinivasan. Satya Murti has filed a written statement contending that he being the survivor alone is entitled for the entire share left by the deceased Srinivasan since Poonamal was not alive on the date of death. Now kindly take the issues. Yes. The issue is whether the legacy is lapsed if one of the two joint legacies died before the test data. Before the test data. Somebody is working citations. We will drop. We will be dropping the. Yes. For the citations here 1987 Delhi page 323 for the question number one. Here 1987 Delhi. So we will drop it in the zoom box. So the second problem. It is the question is very simple. Srinivasan executed a registered will in favor of his cook and driver because he has no issues and his wife already pre-deceased to him. During the lifetime of the Srinivasan the one of the beneficiary that is namely the cook Poonamal died. Poonamal died. Whether the point is on the day on the date of death of death of death of Poonamal whether they will be executed by Srinivasan is lapsed or not is lapsed or not. The answer is section 106 of the Indian succession which says if anyone of the joint legacies they will be executed in favor of two beneficiaries they are known as joint legacies. If anyone of the joint legacies die before the test or the legacy will not lapse the legacy will not lapse the other surviving legacies takes the whole. So the cook died during the lifetime of the executing is one of the joint legacies under the later the executing Srinivasan died. So after the death of Srinivasan the surviving legacy is his driver Satyamuti. Satyamuti is entitled to get the entire property so the suit filed by the son of cook Rajendra for partition is not maintainable in view of the clearing in view of the section 106 of the Indian succession which says the death of one of the joint legacies will not is in the legacy is not lapsed on the death of the one of the joint legacies. The surviving legacies is entitled to get the whole. So we can go to the third problem. Srinivasan and Latha as pauses Ram and Raghav are their sons. Srinivasan's house property at Adhyar Chennai is a self-acquired property Srinivasan executed a registered will in favor of his will. Latha for her life without any power of alienation and big with his house property at Adhyar jointly in favor of his son Ram and Raghav. Thereafter Latha pre-deceased Srinivasan. Later Ram also pre-deceased Srinivasan leaving behind him his only son Bharat. Bharat claimed his undivided of share in the property left by the deceased Srinivasan but Raghav refused the claim of Bharat. A suit had been filed by Bharat against Raghav for partition of his undivided share in the suit property. Raghav has filed written statement stating that the will has not been bequeathed in favor of Bharat. It is only bequeathed jointly in his favor and his brother Ram as Ram was not alive on the date of death of Srinivasan. The entire property devolved upon the survivor as such he claimed the entire interest in the suit property and trade for dismissal of the suit. So this is similar to the second question. Well after hearing my lecture you can easily come to a conclusion here also one of the joint legacy died so the surviving legality is entitled to get the entire property that is not so. If the will is executed in favor of the lineal descendants that is his legal cast then section 106 will not apply. As per section 109 if the will if the will is executed in favor of the lineal descendants even after the death of auntie death of the one of the joint legality during the lifetime of the testator and after the death of the testator the legal has of the deceased joint legality is entitled to share the property with the surviving legality. So this is section 109 of the Indian succession act. So section 109 of Indian succession act is an exception to section 106. So one thing is very clear if the will is in respect of legal has there is no question of survivorship entitled to get the entire property. So he must enjoy the property along with the legal gas of the deceased legality. If the will is in respect of other than the lineal descendants then the survivor is entitled to get the property after the death of the one of the legal legality joint legality. We will go to the fourth question. Hemlata entered into a sale agreement with Harita in respect of her vacant plot measuring to an extent of 24th 100 square feet for 15 lakhs. The sale agreement is dated 11 2019 on the date of execution of said sale agreement. Harita paid a sum of rupees 5 lakhs as advance and agreed to pay balance sale price of 5 lakhs on or before 30th of June 2019. During the currency of the said agreement one Mr. Jeev Kumar wanted to buy the said property and offered Hemlata sum of rupees 50 lakhs. Delighted by this Hemlata made an attempt to sell the property in favor of Jeev Kumar during the month March 2019. Erged by this Harita has filed a suit for permanent injection before district months report which typically on 15 March 2019 against Hemlata for permanent injection restraining Hemlata from the nation and encumbering the suit property in favor of third party as so long as an agreement subsist. She has also filed an application under order two rule three seeking leave of the court to file a suit for specific performance of sale agreement dated 11 2019 within the stipulated period that is on or before 30th of June 2019. The district months of court were pleased to allow the said application and granted leave in favor of Harita to sue for specific performance of sale agreement. Subsequently Hemlata has filed her statement and the core point of substance raised by her is that the district months have had no jurisdiction to grant leave in favor of Harita to sue specific performance of sale agreement 11 2019 before district court which has got pecuniary jurisdiction to entertain Harita's suit for specific performance. The execution under the receipt of advance amount and her attempted to sell execution the receipt of advance amount and their attempted sale are not denied. Now Hemlata is the vendor Harita is the purchase they entered into sale agreement to purchase the property in the sale agreement he has paid some amount as advance and agreed to pay the pay the balance sale price balance sale price within a period of six months on or before 36 2019 the sale agreement is dated 11 2019 so the Harita has got right to pay the balance amount within a period of six months. During the currency of the sale agreement Hemlata Hemlata is attempted to sell the property in favor of some x maybe in favor of Jeevakumar because Hemlata is delighted by the fancy offer given by Jeevakumar he is intending to purchase the property for 50 lakhs than the 15 lakhs offered by Harita. So during the currency of the sale agreement attempt was made attempt attempt was made to sell the property so immediately Harita filed a suit for permanent injunction restraining Hemlata from alienating or encumbering the property during the currency of the sale agreement restricted prior has been sought for by via filing a suit in that suit he has also filed an application under order 2 rule 3 seeking leave of the court to file her comprehensive suit for specific performance before the district court which has got exclusive jurisdiction to entertain her suit for specific performance leave was granted by the district that is the lowest care of judiciary permitting Harita to institute a suit for specific performance before the district court. Now Hemlata entered appearance filed a statement and he has not denied the execution of the sale agreement and he has not denied she has not denied the receipt of advance amount and she has not denied her attempt to sell the property what was in the what was raised in the written statement than the district must see has no jurisdiction to grant leave in favor of Harita to institute a suit before this period court that is the only contention raised by Hemlata. Now whether the inferior namely the lower division civil judge can is entitled to grant permission in favor of the Harita plaintiff to institute her comprehensive suit for specific performance before the superior court the answer is lying under order 2 rule 2 subclass 1 of CPC order 2 rule 2 subclass 1 of CPC which contemplates the plaintiff may relinquish any portion of his claim in order to bring the suit within the jurisdiction of any court within the word employees within the jurisdiction of any court it may be the superior court or coordinate court or competent in the court having competent jurisdiction it doesn't matter so the inferior court namely the constituency is entitled to grant permission to file a suit for specific performance at a later point of time before the superior court here one may ask sir without filing a suit for specific performance whether your mere suit for injunction simplicity is maintenance my answer is here during the currency of the lease sale agreement Harita has got time for six months to pay the balance sale price no doubt the purchaser must be ready and willing to purchase the property from the date of execution of the sale agreement there is no doubt about it but here there is an attempt to sell the property during the currency of the sale agreement so that Harita to file a suit for injunction and his failure is restricted during the currency of period of sale agreement that is six months within the period of six months there cannot be any alienation the suit is maintainable but without getting any permission and order 2 rule 3 she cannot institute a suit for specific performance so cautiously he has filed an application he has took out an application under order 2 rule 3 and got permission from the constituency to file a suit for specific performance before the superior court next question last question Raja Gopal borrowed a sum of rupees 10 lakhs from Govinda Swami and executed a promissory note dated 112 from 17 in favor of in his favor for peace 10 lakhs on 15 12 2019 Raja Gopal died leaving behind him his wife Parvati and son Vijay Lakshman a Vigyan but the death of Raja Gopal is not known to Govinda Swami and he filed a suit for recovery for pro note amounting to peace 10 lakhs on the last date of expiry of the screen years that is on 31st of December 2019 against Raja Gopal the summon issued to Raja Gopal was returned with the endorsement that Raja Gopal has died on 15 12 2019 thereafter Govinda Swami filed an application to impede his legal hears of deceased Raja Gopal on 10 10 2010 month 10th of January 2020 and the same was allowed on 15th of February 2020 on the ground that Govind Swami by mistake failed to impede the legal hears in good faith when he instituted the suit in the written statement filed by Parvati and Vijay and they contended that the suit against them is deemed to be instituted on 15th of February 2020 the date on which impeding has been petition has been for the law therefore the suit against them has become barred by limitation and they are prayed for dismissal of the suit you will have to unmute yourself unmute yourself okay the issue involved is in this case the last date for filing the suit expired on 31 12 2019 31 12 2019 and the borrower Govinda Swami died on 15 12 2019 so without knowing the death of the borrower Govinda Swami the Raja Gopal plaintive filed the suit on the promissory note against the deceased person the summon sent to the defendant Govinda Swami returned with an endorsement Govinda Swami died on 15 12 2019 so after noticing the same the plaintive filed an application to impede the legal hears of the deceased defendant Govinda Swami the legal hears are his wife Parvati and the son of Vijay his application was allowed on 15 to 2020 on 15 to 2020 the period of limitation to file the suit on promissory notice expired in the date the date of expiry is 31 12 2019 whereas the legal hears of the deceased defendant was made as parties on 15 to 2020 when they took the plea on the date of their impeachment the the suit is barred by limitation barred by a flux of time so the suit is not maintained that is their contention here we have to look into section 21 of the Indian Limitation Act under section 21 of the Indian Limitation Act if any person is employed either as the plaintive or defendant the suit shall be instituted when the plaintive or defendant was ordered to be implanted so so far as the newly implanted parties are concerned they are deemed to be implanted only the date on which the order was passed for their impeachment so so far as the impeachment of the Parvati and Vijay are concerned they are deemed to be so far as the suit is so far as Parvati and Vijay are concerned the suit is deemed to be instituted on 15 to 2020 the date on which order was passed to implicate them as a party so on the date absolutely the suit is barred by limitation but the Pravishottu section 21 says if the plaintive in good fight the plaintive in good fight or mistake failed to implicate the legal case and subsequently application was filed and the order to be implanted then their date of they are deemed to be instituted from the date of the Arvishottu section 21 citations 1993 for a cc page 41 so without knowing the death of the defendant the suit has been filed it was it is a sheer mistake and it was made in good fight so subsequently application has taken out to implicate the lots of the deceased Govindasamy they were implanted and since the mistake is bona fide and made in good fight so far as the newly implanted parties are concerned they are deemed to be implanted from the date of the suit from the date on which the suit is instituted 1993 for a cc page 41 but one thing you must make clear if where your party is implanted not because of the legal case of the deceased defendant but on the ground of assignment or by devolution of any interest during the pendency of the suit section 21 1 have no application section 21 1 of the limitation act have no application this is because suppose your suit has been filed your suit has been filed for a declaration and injunction during the pendency of the suit the plaintiff died after executing a will in favor of his son so the son by operation of law he becomes one of the property so he is entitled to proceed with the case so here the when the when he was implanted doesn't matter because section 21 has no application and the input is made on account of devolution of any interest or by way of assignment if any assignment is made during the pendency of the suit the assignee is entitled to be implanted and he is entitled to proceed with the case so these are all answers to the five questions I hope the questions are very interesting and it will enrich your knowledge in the civil law because the somebody is asking some questions and posting in the chat box I will answer it after the my session is over and if somebody is asking my phone number and you can you can share my phone a mobile number that's no problem okay no issues yes now we can take things forward so the basic sections which you have explained now we can take those sections and you can explain for the facilitation in a simple language hello yeah moly sir now you would like to take the question in what format you want you want the questions to be taken or you can define the certain section the question I will take the question after after my session is over now let me proceed with the topic yes the enforcement of affirmative and negative parts of agreement may proceed sir yeah yeah perfect yes present topic is encircled on section part two of the specifically fact only one section and so the topic is very simple enforcement of positive and negative part of the argument you are all aware specifically fact is by is based on the well-known maxim he be just he be remedium remedy for the every right in finished and the specifically fact is not violating article 300 a of the constitution of india