It's time for Matt Geekab and listener Sylvain brings us our quick tip of the week Saying maybe you already know But I just discovered that in Apple Mail on iOS 16 when we long press on an email message a pop-up window Appears and at the bottom of that list it's possible to directly block the sender right from there First time Sylvain says he saw this option and also continues by saying this neat little feature Will definitely make his life easier. I couldn't agree more Tips like this plus your questions answered all today on Matt Geekab 968 for Monday February 13th, 2023 Welcome to Matt Geekab the show where you send in tips like that you send in questions You send in your cool stuff found we answer your questions or we at least do our level best to answer your question We share your tips. We share your cool stuff found we take it all we loosely organize it into an agenda Serving a one prime directive and that is say it with us that we each learn at least five new things Every single time we get together Sponsors for this episode include Wildgrain.com MGG where you get 30 bucks off your first box plus Frequisance a brand new sponsor for us Join honey comm slash MGG a free shopping tool It'll scour the internet for promo codes and then applies them to the things in your cart Be be edit of course at bare bones calm. It's running right now on my computer I always is and rocket money comm slash MGG where you can go and cancel all those subscriptions That you forgot you had but are still paying for we'll talk more in-depth about how you can take advantage of each of these Shortly here, of course, you can always find them at Mackie cub comm slash Sponsors all the deals not just these deals but deals that from sponsors that that that aren't even sponsors anymore If the deals good we keep it there for you Mackie cub comm slash sponsors for now here in Durham, New Hampshire I'm Dave Hamilton and here in Fairfield, Connecticut. Oh, I muted John Braun because he was making noise during the intro Say your name, mr. Braun if you would please and here in Fairfield, Connecticut. This is John F. Brown. That's the second time. I've done that maybe in a row or at least twice in three weeks Yeah, and I hear noise during the intro. I just pound me bro. Well, you know, I have to mute yourself then. That's how it works It's one or the other Don't mute me bro. I like that. That's that's so far. That's our working title for the for the episode Let's see. Well, here we are. It's just the two of us and we can make it if we try That was George Benson, wasn't it? Pilot Pete is out piloting today, and we couldn't adjust our schedules to make it all work So so we'll do it. We'll do it old school. Mr. Mr. John F. Braun you and me you want to why you want to kick us off or Continue us along. Yeah, Tony This is one that I assume everybody knows but maybe not you are typing into a form field and it insists upon starting with a Capital letter when you don't want that hate that such as when typing HTTPS It's not that it wouldn't work, but it's not what you want it to look like Simple fix start with a letter. You don't want then type the letter You do want they move back in backspace over the unwanted capital move forward continue typing So obvious once you think of it, but I'll admit to struggling with that the first few times it happened huh Yeah, the other thing I found Dave. Yes, I'm wondering if this would do it so if Now I don't know if he's talking about iOS or Mac OS, but if he's definitely iOS. Yeah, no, he's definitely talking iOS Yeah, okay in that case though if you go to settings general keyboards There's a whole bunch of little little settings here and one is called auto Capitalization, so maybe you turn that off But I can't find the equivalent on Mac OS. I don't think it happens to me on Mac OS Yeah, I don't I don't experience this on it Mac OS Which is why I made the the quick assumption that that Tony was just talking about iPhone or iOS, but um But yeah auto capitalization I'll have to think about whether I want to turn that off really the trick would be turning it off and seeing if it drives Me crazy. So from this moment forward until I turn it back on I have disabled auto capitalization because this drives me crazy, too But I might like the capitalization when it doesn't drive me crazy. I don't know so anyway Anyway, that's a good one. Hey while we're talking about things on iPhone that drive me crazy I Along with many people it seems have had an issue where on iPhone in Safari One password Will not let me authenticate. It doesn't even ask me to authenticate with face ID It just makes me type my password in over and over and over again and that gets obviously very tedious at at best I filed a support ticket and they told me yeah, we we know about this We fixed it, but some people even though you're running the latest version The the change didn't populate the way It needed to so go into Safari Tap the little you have to be on a web page You can't be on a blank page tap the once you're on a web page down in the address bar in Safari on iPhone you tap the little The little extensions puzzle piece and and then manage extensions and turn off the one password extension Safari that's step one step two is Delete the one password app from your phone Step three reinstall the app Log in step four Reauthent you know re-enable the extension. I tried this this morning totally solved the problem And so I'm much happier about I wish I had done this three weeks ago because it's been driving me bonkers to have to deal with this so Hopefully that that will help more than just me on Safari for iOS, yeah All right Back to the agenda porthos John in our discord chat shared a great thing Actually started as a stumper, which I'll share to give some context to the solution He says I have a whole bunch of home kit devices with even more linked through home bridge I have a bunch of automations that trigger when devices are activated like a light switch that is linked Etc. Some of my hues scenes don't like to activate correctly based on that Automation Automation even though when I test it it works perfectly and then he says apparently Hidden at the bottom very bottom of a long list is the answer When you're creating a home automation in the home app Once you get past the trigger and you are in the select scenes and accessories to automate window Okay, you can then scroll all the way to the bottom and tap convert to Shortcut at which point you can use the full shortcut logic stream to wait or do anything else that it can do and then control home Devices from there great quick tip. Thank you for finding and sharing that porthos John. That's that's a great one So yeah convert your home kit automation or use shortcuts Leverage shortcuts inside your home kit automation. I like it. Thank you porthos John join our discord mackey cab comm slash discord tons of great tips your questions being answered not just by me and John and Pete but also by other listeners So you get the whole it's the hive mind. It really is the mackey cab hive mind and we we love you all for it So yeah, mackey cab comm slash discord All right, John. I think another Tony brings us the next one Could be the same one. No, I don't think it is. I don't think it is Yeah, there's multiple Tony's and I think multiple Andrews in this episode to if I'm multiple Gary's That's what I noticed in the agenda. We'll get to them All right, Tony says how did I not know this you must have covered this we did But just in case while trying to add a new lock screen I accidentally swiped left before doing a long touch and was shocked shot To see my camera up here ready to take a photo as I take a photo from my lock screen every morning after preparing my wife's pills So we'll know later if I make any mistakes. That's a good idea. Actually, that's really smart. Yeah, huh? Yeah This will be much easier by the way I instantly delete the photo because it's available for 30 days and I probably won't need it Also a great quick tip. Wait a minute. Where's Pete and his magical bell? That's a brilliant idea if you take a picture that you think you might need but you know, you don't want to keep Take it delete it. If you're on iCloud photo library, it it is kept in your deleted items for at least 30 days. Oh That might be the most life-changing thing I've ever heard on this show I mean, I've heard some life-changing things, but that like that one. That's pretty good Anyway, sorry, I continue John my my excitement got the best of me. Yeah, I stumbled across this by accident one time, but um You may ask yourself How do I know what things I can do from the lock screen and I Got my Google foo going and I found an article Dave called access features from the iPhone lock screen and You can do all sorts of things as he found out. So one item is open the camera You can also open the control center See earlier notifications view widgets or control media playback. All right. Well, let's not bury the lead here So to because we're gonna tell people we're not just gonna tell people to read an article We're gonna tell you what you can do. So open a camera as John said before Swipe left on the lock screen open control sweater open control center Swipe down from the top right corner on an iPhone with face ID Or swipe up from the bottom edge of the screen on all other iPhone models If you want to see earlier notifications, you swipe up from the center, okay? I don't know that I knew that I think I've done it if you want to view widgets. You swipe right really. Oh, yeah Okay, I guess I knew that yeah, okay and control media pay playback is the playback controls that are right there on the Lock screen for you. So yeah, that's good stuff, man. I like it. I Like it. We'll put a link to that in the show notes for you. Oh Where are we at here Dominic? I believe is our next Contestant on the geek is right Dominic says Sometimes you need to send an SMS to somebody but Apple won't let you because it believes that your contacts mobile number is valid for iMessage Yeah, I've seen this if people move from like You know iMessage to or from Apple to Samsung or Sometimes somebody on an Android phone gets a new number and for whatever reason Apple thinks that it's in the iMessage system Whatever I've seen this To do this to solve this problem to send an SMS when Apple wants to send it as an iMessage Go into settings mobile data and temporarily turn mobile data off You can then message your contacts mobile number and it will Definitively be sent as an SMS so I could even send an SMS to you by doing this John when done Remember to turn mobile data back on if you find yourself doing this a lot shortcuts can help So Dominic offers some context. Why might you want to do this? Number one your contacts started using a feature phone because they find their iPhone 2 distracting sure your contact went to a festival And took a phone. They don't mind losing. Oh, I never thought about that. That's a good idea Your contact went to a festival lost their iPhone and using something and is using something cheaper now Or your contacts switched to android and did not go through the required dance before they did What's that dance? Well apple and google have answers for you. Can I can I click on these? Is this possible? I feel i'm trying to click in the pdf that uh That dominic sent us because I want to share it with all of you and And i'm not able to okay. There we go um Switching texting from i messages to messages Before you remove The sim from your iPhone You have to go in and go into settings messages and set i message to off and uh And they also recommend restarting any group chats that you have So if you're in any group chats with friends who have iPhones to keep getting their messages start a new group chat Once you've turned off i message because it will start an mms group chat instead of an i message group chat And if you've already removed the sim card from your phone You have to ask apple to deregister your phone number with i message and they can do that for you Okay I like this i'll put a link to that uh that article in the show and it's great great tip Love this stuff john. I love that we get to do this. It's great All right, uh Last quick right nothing more on that we just have a quick tip from uh From andrew right I believe sure. Yeah, okay. It's somewhere here. I thought it was in the uh in the show But i'm not i'm not seeing it. Let me let me see if I can find it And if not, I can I can share it nonetheless. Yeah, uh, there it is. Yeah, uh Andrew says uh Recently you're speaking about siri commands one that I use a lot is siri Turn on apple tv when I walk into the room and everything comes on and you can also turn off everything with siri Turn off apple tv I do this all the time and never thought to uh to share it as a tip Uh, I've also found that you can do this with if you have sonos devices you can say hey sonos And change the volume you can also and he points out that that you can do uh, you can tell the apple tv to Change the volume and things like that As well So and and I think you can even fast forward with apple tv john Have you tried that with uh with the uh with using siri commands? No, no, I haven't no. All right. Well, I think it's I think it's doable. I think it's doable Oh, hey, you know that try it free for 30 days phrase That seems to be about enough time to try and completely forget about a subscription or service Before you know it you're paying for subscription. You don't use every single month with our sponsor rocket money You can change that with a few quick taps rocket money formally known as true bill Is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions It monitors your spending and it helps you lower your bills all in one place Over 80 percent of us have subscriptions We have simply forgotten about like that streaming service you bought to just watch one show on or that free trial You never even used I wound up with a subscription to the wall street journal that we had When we ran the mac observer and then we didn't need that anymore and certainly didn't need the expense It was nearly in pot. 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It's warm the sourdough is crusty You got to try this out plus for a limited time You can get $30 off your first box plus free croissants in every box when you go to wild grain dot com slash mg g to start your subscription you heard me free croissants in every box and 30 bucks off your first box when you go to wild grain dot com slash mg g That's wild grain dot com slash mg g or you can use promo code mg g check out and our thanks to wild grain for sponsoring this episode All right. Hey, well, I was uh talking about our sponsors there Uh, uh, I want to make sure I get this right pj in our discord chat Shared some additional apple tv siri tips. You can say to siri go back two minutes And it will go back two minutes. You can say to siri. What did they say? And it will jump back like 10 to 15 seconds so you can hear what they said I I think when you say what did they say it might also put the closed caption up on the screen I feel like I haven't done this in a long time, but it's something about Uh, I seem to remember something happening that way, but maybe not. Maybe I maybe I dreamt it and if so somebody from apple Hey opportunity, you know, it It knocks all right, um Also, I said george benson in the intro when I when I quoted or referenced just the two of us Thankfully andrew c got me right. Uh, it got me straight set me straight It's grover washington jr. Of course that I knew what I didn't know jon bill withers saying that tune now that he says it Super obvious have no idea How about your apple tv jon? Let me tell you about my apple tv. Well, not so much the tv but the remote. Okay, um So here's here's the remote that it came with. Um, describe it for everyone that can't see please. Um, it's the uh first generation Um, it's a black remote Uh, yes. Yeah, so it's the apple tv first generation remote. This is the remote that it came with. Okay So it has you know, uh Menu it has buttons and it has a touch surface. I think this was the first one. They had the touch surface got it. Here's the bad news I um, I got some liquid on it that must have had sugar in it because Oh Oh, that's a bad sound. I'm clicking the buttons and it's a bad sound. It works. Yeah so So I bought a new one And what I got dave was the second generation one which also has Um, I wasn't sure looking at it, but it has both directional arrows and a touch screen on the top It also has an explicit power button and has a back button. Remember we were talking about that a while ago. Yes Yes, I do remember that. So you have The the one that you have and now has the circular like d-pad at the top Yes, it has the the the the scrub touch sensor in the middle of the d-pad It has the seributton on the side of it. Yeah, correct. Okay, cool. Now. Let me ask a question How do you charge it? Um, hey, good question. Um, this one that I bought um uses lightning Okay, got it. But then I learned something new dave. So this is the second generation Remote, there's a third generation one which is exactly the same as this one except it has a usbc port for charging it That's right. Yeah, we got one of those with the latest gen apple tv 4k that we got the you know, this I think it's apple tv 4k second generation and it comes with that remote so I have both of those and and they are I the only way I can tell them apart is by looking at the bottom of them to see what connector it has and Despite having had it for a couple months. I don't know how I don't know about you But I don't have to charge my apple tv remote more than say Once a month maybe and I am constantly forgetting that that thing takes usbc Uh, I I always wind up plugging trying to plug lightning into it and obviously failing But you know, yeah, that's great. Hey, um, here's a blast from the past day. Yeah, go. Yeah See describe it for this. I well I can but most of most people who are listening cannot This is a remote that came with the computer So it has a describe it in the center. It's white And it's white and it has So it has a circle with directional keys So you can go up down right left and then then the center is the play pause and then there's a menu button The the distinguishing feature of that one is across the top. It has a black plastic Shield which really is like a red plastic shield if you look carefully because it's infrared and this was when This was for a controlling max that could do that had infrared ports, right? Yeah, and In a time past the the mini also had an ir receiver Okay, yeah earlier minis and earlier macbooks. Um, I don't think any of them have that anymore because it was kind of fun to control your computer remotely Yeah, they don't have that anymore. They they it's been I mean certainly nothing within apple silicon, but but even Intel hasn't had that for at least five years if not if not more. Yeah fun while we're on the subject of remotes listener david shares with us that the Function 101 remote which we have mentioned on this show before now Is available with a bluetooth edition? So it doesn't have to do infrared anymore. It can do bluetooth And it's available for $39.95 and if you visit their site, which we will link to at function 101.com Eight when I just visited it now a save 20 percent Thing came up. So you might be able to save, you know Eight bucks ish off of that and it's I mean, it's 40 bucks. So 32 dollars 35 bucks for a apple tv remote What'd you pay for yours john? Uh, it was like 40 something. Okay. Oh, that's not bad. This one has a lot more buttons in a sense But lacks the uh touch connector the touch sensor on it, which some people don't like We talked about that on a previous show. You can actually turn that off if you uh, if you don't like it, but Yeah, thanks for sharing that with us david good stuff. I love it Share your favorite remotes. It's fun. I it's interesting. We are we have been a harmony remote household for a very long time and I still have uh in act in active duty two harmony hubs one in the living room one in the playroom with Harmony remotes connected to them And I really like that because I can control them with you know, I have them linked with home bridge and I can control them with With the a lady Which is great, uh, however For controlling the tv We are now almost exclusively using our apple tv to do everything The only time I don't use the apple tv is when I run plex And know that i'm playing a 4k video with atmos because the at current the apple tv Version of plex will not send its atmos sound through the apple tv's weird filters to my television, but my tv's I have an lg tv and the web os The the built-in version of plex will happily play atmos sound on my apple tv Good news. I have had conversations recently with the uh, actually some of the higher ups there at plex And they've confirmed two great things for me number one that they believe they've figured out a way to Make it such that atmos sound can be played on the apple tv via plex because you can get it from Netflix and any other apps So there's it would stand to reason that the apple tv could could do that too with plex and number two I think it equally is important is when you have a movie in your plex library that uh That has Atmos plex won't show you that it has atmos. It says like eac 7.1 or something weird But it won't say that it has atmos. They're gonna fix that too. So you actually know that your movies have atmos. So Good stuff coming good stuff coming While we're on the subject of tv's listener patrick Shares an interesting thing with us he says uh I had some accidental success and he says my wife and I can't understand the words or couldn't understand the words coming From the tv when people talked after a lot of study I took the hdmi cord from my apple tv That one that goes between my apple tv and the television and moved it from on our tv The it's a samsung 4k tv. I moved it from the htmi 2 port to the hdmi 4 port on the tv On that television the hdmi 4 port is the one that supports arc audio return channel might even support e arc Uh audio return channel was built into tv's just as an aside So that the sound that your tv's make Like via say the lg app, you know the lg web os apps or the samsung apps Can be output to Speakers that are not plugged into your tv. So to your soundbar to your home pods or whatever and uh, he says uh, I know nothing about this But that is what the tv's said to do now problem solved I can use dish and peruse the channels or my apple tv and the sound comes out of my home pod 2 Which is connected via airplay to my apple tv We can understand it and the spatial quality of it gives us the feeling of stereo Interestingly, he says even with the apple tv technically off Using dish and the dish remote Changing the volume one sees the light come on on the apple tv to receive the message by shining a little light But I don't have it turned on only plugged in no idea how this works, but it ended up being too simple I had never heard of this before john and then the very night that I replied to patrick's email I turned on my tv And my apple tv had a big message that said what's new Home pod and apple tv Apple tv 4k has e arc support now built in Pair it with up to two home pod speakers to enjoy home theater audio across all your tv connected devices So if you have an apple tv and home pods and you are using them for the sound of your apple tv stuff Make sure you are using arc or e arc from your television To your apple tv so that you can use your home pods for the sound of everything that's plugged into your tv Not just your apple tv. So thank you for sharing that patrick fascinating stuff Had no idea and then boom there comes the message. Maybe new in a software update. I suppose I don't know Yeah, do you you have some home pods right john? Do you use them with your apple tv for sound or no? um, I've Tried okay though, you know my my uh Exit my speaker system is better than the home pods, but it was fun to try Yeah, yeah Yeah, it's cool that it's doing that it'll be in an e arc receiver now if apple would come out with like A sound bar or something like that would be I wonder though. Wait a minute I'm thinking I'm thinking if you had an air playable sound bar Can the apple tv is it just to home pods? I think it is just to home pods that it will do this It won't do it to just any old airplay device, right? It has to be home pods I mean that's what the that's what the the message said on my tv now that message could be A bit marketing and a bit, you know a bit informative. So I don't know I don't know Thinking here Yeah, interesting because if it's because if it's doing it over airplay. Yeah, I don't know It's not because airplay is wi-fi. So you're getting You know a full bandwidth connection. It's not like you're limited with bluetooth the bandwidth or something Huh technically possible But will out did apple do it or will apple do it? We don't know will apple come out with a sound bar We don't know Who knows well, they partner with someone that has a sound bar Maybe of course if you have a sound bar You would just e-arc to your sound bar and let the sound bar handle it. So maybe i'm overthinking this. I think I I mean, let's be honest. I'm definitely overthinking this John save me Uh, i'm gonna save you or uh, I think gary will save us. All right. So gary has a good question I'm seeking a solution to be able to play blu-ray discs on my 2017 iMac I know I'll need an external drive, but I confused about the requirements for software thoughts And I got some thoughts, but other people have some thoughts too. Um So I I do have an external blu-ray drive. It's a pot tech which is actually a rebranded i n i c 3609 It's a this is a usb based thing the next year mac. Yeah, I've got one I've got something like that too my advice to people when when you want to do this is just go on amazon and buy the you know the the sort of Blu-ray reader slash writer du jour. I think they usually cost somewhere between 30 and 60 dollars, right? Maybe 30 and 80. Yeah, so yeah yeah, um The solution that I would you or here's here's a couple of tools that you may want to use Okay, um, handbrake is is a good one Um, and here's the secret though if you link it To this package called make mkv um, you can then rip to uh I think last time I did it was to uh an mp4 file And then you can play that with uh, you know, whatever player you want. Um vlc Should do it for you, but so I have a question about this because I've done this um, I never successfully Was able to get it where handbrake would would do the the initial rip of the blu-ray even Trying to link it to make mkv I would I would run make mkv Which is its own app But it has some libraries that theoretically you're supposed to be able to like link with handbrake Uh, but I would run make mkv have it make the full quality mkv Container of the blu-ray And then I would point the mkv at handbrake if I wanted to shrink it down more In recent years, I've decided why in the world I have more storage than I know what to do with Why in the world do I want to lose quality? I just put the mkv file in plex in my plex library and either let it stream You know full quality to my tv, which is how you get like, you know 4k and apmos and hdr and all that stuff or if i'm streaming or or down, you know Downloading to my ipad. Well, then I just let my plex server do the transcoding and i'm also good to go so but Technically speaking, I'm cure. I don't care about handbrake anymore, but I'm now curious Have you been able to make m? Have you been able to link mkv with handbrake to to do a one step blu-ray to mp4 conversion? I haven't tried it recently. Okay. Yeah, because my guess is it won't work I think you're gonna need to run the two apps if you can make it work feedback at mackey keb.com I'd just be curious to hear about it Feedback at mackey keb.com It is feedback at mackey keb.com But still I would I would question the logic here I would just make the mkv and stop because now you've got a full quality thing You don't have to you know, I found myself like oh rip to 720 when would I ever need more than that? It was like oh crap now I got to go re-rip to 1080 and I found myself keeping the mkvs around for these eventuality and finally it was like I'm gonna throw away all the down sampled ones and just put the mkv in my library and be done with it Yeah, I'm pretty well And there's also a dandy article here from Jason Snell Called how I rip dvds and blu-rays and he mentions a lot of the tools that we mentioned so mkv Make mkv. I'm sorry. Um, he identifies a couple of drives that should do it for you Um, great. What else don melt in the scripts? You may want to use some of those if you're using handbrake. You definitely want to use don scripts. Yeah For sure. Yeah, so that mentions a few things that'll make your life easier Um, and then it even links to the article that Dave wrote back Ages ago. Ah nice. Sweet. I told us how to do this Yeah, yeah, that Jason's article Well, it's seven years old, but the last time he updated it was like three years ago. So yeah, good stuff cool cool Um, you know what honestly? Yeah I have a very inexpensive and a lot of my friends have this one too, but uh Magnavox makes a pretty inexpensive 4k Blu-ray player Okay, I picked one up at a you know our local warehouse store, but it's a Magnavox It does 4k ultra hd all that stuff and the price is pretty reasonable I can't remember the last time I actually put a blu-ray in my tv Well, because anytime I get a blu-ray I I want to I have access to it no matter what I'm doing and And so I put it in my plex library and in that way I like I can just watch it on my tv Any of my tv's whether or not they have a blu-ray player plugged into them and also I can You know take it with me on my ipad if I want to watch it on an airplane like it just gives me All the flexibility that I want so Check with your uh attorney and or or I don't know where you would check to confirm that your local area allows you to do these things that i'm suggesting But yeah, I still do physical discs either from red box or my library Yeah, cool Cool. Yeah, that's a that's not a bad uh your library won't do like I use um We're now getting off on some tangents, which I know which I love it's one of the things that makes this show great is uh I use liby for books with my local library And the cool part is you get to borrow books from your library and read them on You borrow digital copies of the books so you can read them right in the liby app or Uh, I choose to read them in the kindle app because I I have a kindle paper right now Which I really love that thing is awesome So Uh, so I use liby for that I wonder if your local library offers like Streaming movie rentals. Do they I I've never looked into this Do you know me? I don't know. I'll ask them next time. I'm there. Yeah Because that would be you know That would be Interesting folks if you know Uh, let us know Feedback at mackey cup.com and I'll put a link to liby in the in the show notes While we are on the whole home theater realm Another tony has a question a different tony. I think that's the third tony for this episode. I don't know He says my cousin has a stereo That's probably from the 90s if not the 80s with some top of the line floor speakers I'd like to equip it with a bluetooth adapter So she can stream apple music etc to it from her phone I'm assuming that a stereo of this vintage would use rca jacks and would have some sort of You know input available that they could choose and off to go. I'm curious what you would recommend. So What you described tony a bluetooth to rca Adapter the the one that I would happily and highly recommend is the audio engine b1 I have a An older version of this thing It's it supports It's like it's got a fantastic DAC in it digital to analog converter. Uh, it supports all the Latest bluetooth standards so that you get the highest quality you possibly can From bluetooth and and I will say that even the old version of this I've got one that's I mean it might be 10 years old. It works great So if you are looking for what you asked for That's it however And I'm I'm speaking intentionally here because I think there's a device that you want That's not what you asked for because the iphone as we mentioned earlier in the episode Also supports airplay 2 and that goes over Wi-Fi So an airplay receiver would result in better, you know higher bandwidth potentially even lossless Sound quality from your iphone to the stereo I Went on a search For such a thing because we've talked about this in the past And it hasn't worked like our searches have failed. There's always been just janky stuff out there well Much to my surprise The cousin closely related cousin of the audio engine b1 Is the audio engine b5 This is an airplay receiver. They actually call it a a multi room streamer Uh, it supports airplay And plugs into your devices And so you get super high quality wireless sound from your whatever app you're running on your phone You can put uh multiples in your house and and because airplay 2 lets you do multi room audio You could have it, you know streaming everywhere that you wanted so I think the b5 Is probably what you want and it's the same price as the b1 So I would look at that because I think that's going to do what you want it to do And it's got rca jacks on the back and you know, obviously it connects to your Your wi-fi network and all that good stuff. It's even got digital audio out if you want to go that way Um, so yeah, but but it's got the rca jacks for for the for the older stereo So and it's got a good DAC in it. So yeah That's uh, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. John. That's that's where I would uh, that's where I would go with that Do you do anything like this in your house my friend? No All right Oh, there's that sound that sound means that I get to tell you about a new sponsor today's episode is sponsored by honey The easy way to save when shopping on your phone or computer You know how great it is when you find a deal well with honey The deals just appear right there while you're shopping recently. I was buying a uh a new like usb charger online And I had honey installed and boom It just showed me that I could save 20 bucks on this usb charger. It was freaking amazing You just watch the prices drop and it's super easy to use and one thing that I didn't know I had used honey in the past honey doesn't just work on desktops It also works on my iphone 2 and it'll work on yours You just activated on safari on your phone and you can save on the go So if you don't already have honey, you could be straight up missing out and by getting it You'll be doing yourself a solid and supporting the show Get paypal honey for free at join honey.com slash mg g That's join honey.com slash mg g and our thanks to honey for coming on board to sponsor the show Next up is bb edit from bare bones. I love bb edit. It's open on my computer right now You want to know why because I have it set to open automatically in my start the day scripts and also my podcasting scripts When in keyboard maestro, you know when I when I start my day because I use it so much So obviously I use bb edit for coding right because it's great for that It highlights the code and colors it and shades it and lays it out in a way that makes it super easy to just see And it just does that on the screen. It doesn't change what you've done on on the disc That's up to you with the typing, you know on top of that BB edit let's you do all kinds of things with text one thing that We've all been sort of using bb edit for over the years for a while. I thought it was the only one But then obviously it turns out I wasn't it's just storing random bits of text in files and Recently, well in the last couple of years the folks at bare bones added notebooks to bb edit to really make this super easy and now BB edit supports creating multiple notebooks in any desired locations. It's amazing What they've done because they use this too over there at bare bones, right? I mean, I think it's like this meta thing where they use bb edit to build bb edit In fact, I'd be shocked to find out if it were any different. So they know how this stuff works They've got a generous eval model 30 days of full function to try out the app and then a fresh eval period for anyone with older versions Who are running in free mode? There's discounted upgrade pricing for existing bb edit customers Go to barebones.com Check it all out and let them know we sent you our thanks to the folks at bare bones for sponsoring this episode All right Moving on from our home theaters section here Larry writes with the recent issues that last pass has had and the move by one password to a less Max-centric internal structure. Do you have any thoughts on password managers? Also as a point of curiosity Do you have any thoughts on why no one has built to my knowledge a user friendly front end to apple keychain? Apple seems to think that passwords can manage themselves inside keychain What I beg to differ. So, um I'm still using one password Mentioned earlier in the episode that you know, it had some Issues I'm looking at bit warden But I don't but no, I don't think there's anyone who's building a mac only or even apple first Password manager. I think all the password managers that are out there now are cross platform And and that was always one of the things I didn't like about last pass Is even before we knew that they were security swiss cheese was that Well, it always just felt like It didn't even feel like a windows app. It felt like a linux app. It was it was very Function-oriented with not a whole lot of form And and that that might not be a a fair universal Description of it, but it certainly is my description and my experience because I I imported all my passwords into last pass I don't know five six seven eight years ago or something and tried it and it was like I don't like this and I'm starting to feel the same way about one password. It like it's just a little It works fine. I I trust them, but but it's just a little janky like I mentioned earlier so But as to your question about a user friendly front end to apple's iCloud keychain I think the best place to manage that is not the keychain access app It's in safari go into safari go to settings and go to passwords You can do all kinds of things there And I like that to me That's the place to manage. That's your password manager interface is in safari And I know that's a little weird and probably why you didn't think of it larry and also why I wanted to share it in the show But that's where to go and do this. Yeah, I would I would not mind a separate app to do it Just because passwords are such a thing But um, but but there's not but safari is there and and you can manage them there So I've I've always I've always liked them, you know, john. Are you using iCloud keychain these days at all? um I think I was forced to Oh, interesting to a support. Um, uh home, right? I remember at some point my One of my devices said, hey, uh, you know, I need a iCloud keychain to me. Okay. Yes Yes, right for sure. I guess my question is are you using it for your web login passwords at all? No, okay. Yeah, because I'm using both I and I have been basically since iCloud keychain came out Uh, I have and maybe that's part of why It like my experience has gotten janky. It used to be really smooth running one password right alongside iCloud keychain nowadays Less so. Um, and maybe that maybe I need to give one password a fair shake by turning off iCloud keychain Or at least turning off the the automated integrations of it But I don't know. I like I like having things in in the two places It it doesn't it doesn't really bother me most of the time unless unless actually it is bothering me and I'm it's coming out in a Strange way. I don't know. Yeah Curious to know what you folks are using TN papa in our our discord chat says Using uh, the whole family dumped last pass and is exclusively using iCloud keychain You know for someone like you john who is Not like Not happy with last pass because of their security stuff, but also not yet running screaming from them um turning on iCloud keychain and letting that sort of inherit And absorb by osmosis almost all of your passwords You give that like six months man maybe even three months And suddenly iCloud keychain will have all the passwords that you use you might be able to just stop using last pass I guys I kind of need to do an experiment because I that's what I've did with one password. So my passwords are Mostly up to date in both places um So yeah, maybe maybe I need to turn off one and go for a week with that and turn off the other and go for a week with that See how that is I don't know seems like an experiment because that like doing that would let you just sort of gradually migrate to iCloud keychain without Really having to do anything at all other than every time you log in somewhere that iCloud keychain doesn't know about it It'll say hey, do you want to save this password and iCloud keychain you say yes, and then boom It's there moving on next to next next next Oh Hello, yeah, do I have it on I don't think You would know because it would be asking you that question um You would do it. I believe You do it in safari Uh preferences or now safari settings. Sorry ventura Autofill and turn on user names and passwords. I actually have it off on this device because I use this for the podcast and I didn't want the extra interface but um Yeah Yeah, well worth a shot. Do you use browsers other than safari or safari your primary? um safari is my primary. I also run uh chrome on occasion and uh firefox Well some some pages just don't work right with safari I Hate it when yes, I go to a website and they're like, uh, yeah, sorry. We we don't really understand safari So you got to use another browser. It's like right right in learn how to code It's true There is a If you want to use iCloud keychain on chrome and I am just learning about this Right now, but there is an iCloud passwords chrome extension That uh that you can install it is I believe It is apple's extension. So it's not yes. It is published by apple Uh kept up to date fairly regularly um, it's uh, it says Uh, it says that it's for windows users. Oh no, no, no um No, you can you can use uh, I believe you can use it in chrome on both windows and the mac Someone will correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure you can use it there. So that uh I'm not going to try it right now because we use chrome We had a chrome issue earlier and chrome is like the thing that that keeps the audio connection between us alive right now with stream yard So i'm not going to mess with that, but i'm pretty sure i'll put a link in the show notes for uh us all to experiment with While we're on the subject of passwords Another gary has something for us john yes, um gary sent us a very Nice article, which is very timely because this uh feature was just added Um, and I haven't tried it yet um, but the uh the title of the article is Here's why here's why you may not want to use Um security keys. What's a security key? It's a feature that they recently introduced that will let you use your phone Combined with a hardware token No, I believe security keys is your um Oh, maybe okay, you're you're not talking about um Pass keys you're talking about security keys. So yes, this would be a hardware token. You're absolutely right. Absolutely right. Yeah yeah, um Yeah, so we sent us an article and I got to look into this because I haven't turned this feature on yet though I I think I do have an nfc token um I'm trying to remember who it was from was it like yuba key or something. Yes. Yes, okay Yeah, so apparently you can use one of those but um, but the article that um We're going to link to I think this the summary is basically You can use these but Only with devices that are they can run a certain version of the os Right again, they just introduced it in 16.3. So I haven't had a chance to uh Play with it yet. Got it. Got it. Got it. Yeah, interesting. The idea is that The the security is that yeah um Is 16 three out am I not am I not up to date yet? I didn't I don't see a six. Oh, there it is. Never mind. Never mind. I guess I need to download and install 16.3 john I'll do that now. Sorry Yeah, but most people uh, I I forgot where I heard this but um good security has three elements. Um, What what you know what you have and what you are So what you know is a pass is what you know is your password What you have is some sort of hardware token And what you are is biometrics Ah, right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Cool. I am On the subject of pass keys, which are different from security keys The I just I logged into cash fly the folks that provide all the bandwidth to get the show from us to you You hear me say that at the end of every episode Uh, they when I logged in most recently on my mac It said hey Do you want to uh, want me to drop a pass key here so that you can use your fingerprint or face? You know when when you log in next and was like, sure So i'm curious to see my mac is a mac mini and I don't have one of apple's special keyboards or anything. So the only The only Non password way of authenticating with that device that I use is my watch So in a sense acting as a security key, right for for that computer So i'm curious to see what happens the next time I log into cash fly if it lets me like, you know Double tap on my watch to let me in.  They could be on a different wi-fi network halfway across the world It could be whatever it's just it's magic and it's great. It creates your own you know, like Distributed land if you will but it's just you We talked on a recent episode john about how The problem with tail scales implementation Is that if your mac reboots and it doesn't automatically log you in as pete was talking about um I think i just on the last episode maybe it was 967. Yeah, that's the last episode Uh Then tail scale doesn't run because tail scale runs at login Well, it doesn't have to the one from the mac app store runs at login But there is a way to install tail scale d in the terminal And that can run At startup before anybody's logged in I tried this and it worked now Uh, I and and so thanks to dan lots of you emailed about this scott was another one who provided a lot of details here is um you have to It it's a multi step process john and and the way it works is you install uh go which is a um language source code Sort of management compiler thing And so you I I installed go with homebrew at first john. I just did brew install go In the process. I learned that cake brew is dead So long live cake brew but cake brew is gone. Don't use that anymore Uh I installed I did brew install go and then I went to the web page for tail scale and and put in the instructions Which they let you copy and paste it makes life super easy To use go to install tail scale d and It failed because at least the day that I did it homebrew had Go version 1.19 in it and tail scale is always they say this always compiled with the latest version of go and requires the latest version of go Which is 1.20 So I uninstalled it with homebrew brew uninstall go And I went to the go lang.org website and downloaded the mac os installer for go 1.20 Which was super simple to use and once I got that installed I was able to go to my terminal and do the commands to get this running Uh, it was either scott or dan mentioned They couldn't do this because they hit also installed tail scale from the mac app store I had no such issue. In fact, I was able to run both of them alongside each other They identified as different quote-unquote machine names. I don't recommend doing that, but it worked totally fine Uh, but I was able to use the command line to install Uh, tail scale. I was able to log in. I did all the things I needed to do And then again using the simple instructions on the website. You set it up as a launch d Uh service and tell it to run automatically and now it does and so it runs in the background A couple of uh interesting things about this as as listener dan pointed out One really nice part of actually maybe it was uh, maybe it was scott that pointed this out one really nice part about this is that it doesn't run in your menu bar and because of that Users can't quit out of it And because of that it makes it really handy for if you're using tail scale to help manage You know family members trusted friends computers because If they quit it then you can't manage their computer for them And so I think it was listener scott who was saying that He uses tail scale to manage One of his parents computers and it's really nice doing it this way because you know that it's always going to be running No matter what even if they log out even if they quit all their apps, you know, whatever Tail scale is running. So yeah cool stuff. Thank you for and I intentionally didn't go through the minutiae of the steps They're just all linked right there from the show notes at mckycup.com or m g g dot f m slash nine sixty eight So You can get there either way fun stuff Speaking of launching apps john Ed had a strange one. Yeah Yes, he did. Um, so ed says I have pdf expert designated as my default pdf viewer on my mac An apple mail on the mac if I double click on a pdf document It opens in pdf pen pro very strange If I right click on the pdf icon and choose open in pdf expert is checked as the default viewer And if I click on pdf expert the document opens in pdf expert I cannot find any sport articles that mention this strange behavior Um, I have rebooted the mac and it doesn't go away Okay, um Just by instinct I I was almost certain that this is a problem with something called launch services. What is launch services? It's the database in your computer that basically maps Um Files to applications and sometimes that database gets messed up so um, I did find uh Probably shouldn't have sent that I found an article over at eclectic light Okay, kind of explaining the nuts and bolts of why this happens and offers some things to do in the terminal But then I noticed that the article was old so I probably shouldn't have sent it And he also in the article just says, you know what? Just use onyx and in onyx onyx maintenance Rebuilding launch services database so onyx specifically can rebuild this database for you and the reports are that This fix the problem. So yeah Yeah, onyx is the way to go and and there's a you know, your your point about the article at eclectic light being dated Is is is a good one a lot of those types of commands do change from macOS to macOS And and it's for that reason that like when ventura comes out You can't run onyx on ventura because there isn't an onyx for ventura right away. It That's been fixed. So now there is an onyx for every released version of macOS But but yeah, you yeah. Yeah. No, that's the way to do it. Yeah, that's that's a weird So I you know these things they get tied in knots. It's how it works Hey, uh, speaking of getting tied in knots tn papa in our discord chat Just informed us that iCloud passwords chrome extension only works in windows. So no, you can't run it on the mac I don't know why why why would they limit us? There's got to be a way. It's gotta be just gotta be somebody'll figure it out uh Gary Another gary. I believe I think I think I think this is the third gary that we have had asks I've got a question about international travel How does apple pay work in europe a friend plans to visit barcelona in the near future I'm trying to get travel advice for her. She has an iphone iphone is all I know Uh, we'd love to pass along any advice. So yeah, yeah, um apple pay works in europe I've used it in europe Mexico i'm trying to think of where else obviously here in the united states canada It just works everywhere. It's sort of the the the same Everywhere, it's You know, it's kind of the way I think about it is that it's an embedded version of tap to pay Which at least in europe is like the pay to weigh the pay to weigh the way to pay with your credit card um While I was just there in italy john I did tap to pay everywhere. There was one restaurant though that Uh asked me like I did the tap to pay and the machine was like No, and and so the guy's like, oh, we gotta we gotta do the chip thing and he's like, uh Okay, yeah enter your pin And I was like, well, wait I'm an american.  Well Past dave took care of present-day dave by putting my credit card pin in one password So I had launched one password looked up my credit card. There was the pin. I typed it in and The day was saved. I was able to actually pay our bill and you know not have to like wash dishes for the for the remainder of the evening But uh, but yeah, so if you're if you're heading to to europe do know your pin Um, but yeah app maybe and I wonder if I had used apple pay instead of just tap to pay I got so used to using tap to pay over there that I would just pull my card out and tap it on the thing that I didn't even think about it because it's so easy But yeah, apple apple pay is uh is tap to pay. So yeah I don't yeah Yeah, I I I found a new tap to pay Yeah, so I I but I went to our um Um The the place where you bring your trash the dump for center, we call it the dump Yeah, um And I saw someone ahead of me And all of a sudden and then I saw the guy in there accepting payment.  I saw him Take a card from someone and put it next to this handheld terminal And then he gave the card back and when I pulled up, um that time I pulled up I had recycling which is free But um, I'm like, oh you take apple pay and he was like, yeah, I'm sure Amazing, I didn't know that That's great. So the next time I went there. I I just handed him my card which all of my credit cards now Um Are contactless Yeah, I don't have to use apple pay. I can use the card itself Yeah, tap that's tap to pay the contactless. Yep. That's right. Yes. Yep. Yep. Yeah And it worked great and I get points back. So points for trash points for trash. I love it. That's awesome. That's great, man Huh Cool. Yeah, and it was it was tap to pay. So you didn't have to like put the chip in the machine They there was no swiping. It was just yeah that tap to pay thing is is great and you can use that in in Most places here. It's just not common. This is really the thing. So yeah uh Yeah, it's he I find it easier than using apple pay for whatever because it's it's one thing I don't have to like authenticate with my face and do the whole yada yada and I made sure I think I had to request a reprint of one of my cards because it didn't have the little rf symbol on it. Yeah Yeah, it looks like a wi-fi Bars or whatever, right? Like that's the that's the symbol. Yeah. Yeah. Oh cool Cool All right. Well, uh, where are we here? We got time for we can do another question. Maybe how about how about arie's question Uh, let's see arie Um, I've got a puzzler here somehow my phone has decided to remember a misspelling of the word network Um, it shows up intermittently, but I think mostly when dictating voice to text It wouldn't be that big of an issue if I didn't run a network installation company Requiring I use the word constantly You can see in the screenshot when I went back to select the word siri offered to sort of correct it, but still unnecessarily capitalized it Back in the day used to be able to edit or add things to your dictionary, but I always keeps this obscured any suggestions Excuse me. Um, as far as I can tell One can no longer remove individual items from the dictionary. No Oh No, you can't I agree. I agree. I'm agreeing with you. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um I did find some suggestions on how to deal with this okay, um And we got an article here how to remove words from my phone predictive text and basically it's two steps Okay, uh reset the predictive text dictionary Oh, so this is solving the problem by destroying everything. Um, how do we do that? Um I've got it up in front of me. I I'll walk. Okay. Yeah.  Just wipe it clean and uh Start from scratch then uh, then every time you're ranting at someone via iMessage You're going to be talking about that that ducking thing because uh, it won't know to change And then the other suggestion is force predictive text to use the word you want by adding a shortcut In settings general keyboard text replacement Right. Yeah, that's that's the best advice I could find. Yep. That's how I've always done it like in in ari's case I would go in I would do the second thing that's settings general keyboard text replacement and um uh Just put in like for him I'd put network into both fields the shortcut and the expansion. It's not called expansion But that you you'll you'll see what I mean when you're there Just type the exact same thing into both fields That usually fixes it, but it I have seen it not always work john. So yeah, yeah All right, well you know This has been uh, this has been fun, you know, I have there's one more thing listener bill wrote in With a a sort of a rant but a question. It's it's too bad Pete's not here because he's always our our visual model. He said, um He says your merchandise doesn't even I went to mackeykev.com slash merch. So thank you bill And says you don't even have the show logo available on any medium and this is It's not entirely true But but I I know why bill thought this because the show logo is not on anything It's that where you would see it in the first picture in the merch store because our t-shirts have the logo On the back on the front they say don't get caught and then the logo is on the back But I do like this idea of putting the logo on things Uh, so we're gonna add more stuff to the merch store send in Your ideas and if we wind up using your idea We'll send you a free whatever We make from the store with your idea. How's that sound feedback at mackeykev.com. We'd love to uh, We'd love to have your ideas Feedback at mackeykev.com. It's true feedback at mackeykev.com. Thanks for hanging out with us folks. This has been uh It's been a fun one. It was it was fun doing this just uh, just the two of us Thanks to bill withers and grover washington jr. For the uh for the reference. How about bobbleheads? People have asked for bobbleheads john i'm not gonna lie. I um Let's see how many people ask for bobbleheads It's it's it's a thing. I have had one bobblehead made of me We were gonna do them as like merch for a different company that that company like Failed spectacularly. It was it was a disaster Uh, but the bobbleheads were made. I'm sure The one of me has been smashed in effigy would be my guess. Um, but you know, it's fine Uh We all have our histories and Spectacular failures. You can't have success And you certainly won't appreciate success If you're not willing to have spectacular failures folks And if you want to hear more about that kind of stuff including the business that's spectacularly failed Listen to business brain Uh at business brain dot show that's the show I do with shannon gene who you all know from Starting mac rescue and tech restore over the years He's been a long long friend for a very long time and uh, and we enjoy talking about business together So we do that show I said it earlier in the episode. I'll say it again bandwidth, of course is provided by cash fly Uh our merch, of course, you can go get mackey cub.com slash merch. Go check it out Buy what you want. Let us know What you're not seeing and if we got it, we'll send that to you too I love it Thanks for hanging out with us folks Thanks for all of your Questions and tips we didn't get to cool stuff found today, but there's lots of stuff you've sent in there I'm sure we'll get to it in an upcoming episode John What do we have to say my friend? Three things don't get caught


Alright, welcome everybody this is Friday at 1pm or 102pm general housing and military affairs we are here this afternoon to introduce or just to have bill introductions on four bills that have a relationship to issues related to the abinackey. This has been these these bills have been ongoing in our committee that because it is part of our portfolio. These are just some of the bills that will be that are out in the world. Abinackey issues there's some in ways means and there's some efficient wildlife, but we are dealing with four bills here today. We're going to start today with representative O'Brien is here. I'm going to lose my page. Representative O'Brien is here on eight six one eight. So representable Brian I believe this is the first time you've ever testified to our committee. And so welcome. We're going to introduce ourselves to you starting with the folks who are on zoom. Hello and welcome representative O'Brien I'm Mary Howard I represent Rutland District five three. Oh, I hope I think that I'm next to the alphabet. Hello. Hello, Brian. Welcome. Nice to see you. John Calackey from South Burlington. I represent a Brian John plastic representing Melton. And O'Brien Chuck Troy I know from standard. You know each other. And, you know, O'Brien and I know each other to Tommy Waltz from Berry City. And in here now, representative Matt Byron, Virginia. Good to see you. Hi, I'm representative Lisa Hango and I represent Highgate, Franklin Berkshire and rich for down the northern border nice to meet you. Hello, just lonely representing Burlington, South Bend. Joe Parsons represent Newberry top some of the ground. Hi, I'm John Calackey representing Fairfax. And I'm representing Tom Stevens from Waterbury representing Waterbury, Colton Huntington and fuels gore. So welcome. Well thank you. I think I know all of you, at least from zoom titles, if not in person. And representative hang out was just over an house ag introducing a bell so she's turned the tables on me here. I think this is only the second bill I've been the lead sponsor on and so last time it was I was in house transportation and appropriately like a deer in the headlights. So it's scary when you're a freshman and you go before one of these committees and have to introduce a bill so if I do probably it doesn't I'll, I'll get to the point where it'll be, I'll be relaxed anyway. So, a narrative on on where this bill came from in in house ag week as you probably do here. And have these sort of clearing house cattle call hearings where I think in a rural Vermont or NOFA invites a whole lot of farmers and people in the food systems economy to come in and talk to our, our committee and the chief Don Stevens of the Nalpegan. Have an ackee tribe kept popping up in these things there was a red wing hearing to the was in any any. He described the challenges. His tribe was having raising food. They own a bison herd but they, they have to use somebody else's land they don't own any land and so they're, they're food sovereignty or they're there. It's just really hard for that tribe to to raise their own food whether it's livestock or crops. So I thought. And in one other time he said, Hey, don't forget us so those two things in mind I said about thinking like just because I'm a, I'm a farmer and a food person. I'm a farmer and a food sovereignty committee I thought, is there anything we can do here to increase access for the tribes to to raise their own food. Talking about food you know it. I'm as I mentioned I'm a farmer I'm also, I love all things about food, maybe not as much as representative by wrong but you know I like shopping. I love eating, I love cooking. I don't like dishes, but that's probably the only thing. And I like almost all of this. And you and I are totally on par with one another. And I don't like liver, but otherwise. So interesting, just from a personal standpoint, I really understand on my farm that I grew up on in Tumbridge that if that farm was, if I was dispossessed of it or the farm was stolen, how frustrating that would be. If I wanted to raise my sheep or plant apple trees, and I was no longer able to do that. And then I, going back to house ag, almost every day now in house ag, we talk about regenerative farming and healthy soils, how important they are to Vermont and how actually great the soils are in Vermont or sort of way ahead of the country on where we are with soils and soil science.  And it takes like 120 years for an old forest to be an old forest. But Vermont only has about 1% of old forest left. So historically, you look at this, it's like, well, the Abenaki tribes were doing regenerative farming 10,000 years ago and they understood healthy soils and they understood clean water. We have to think of Atlantic salmon in Royalton and Tumbridge is pretty amazing. And they also, because they were so non-invasive understood old forest. So I think we have a lot to learn from Abenaki tribes and their relationship to the land, both in terms of agriculture, husbandry and also that sort of harvesting of food, whether it's in hunting, fishing, trapping or foraging in the woods. So this bill H618, an act, what do they call it? An act relating to providing Abenaki with access to state lands for the purposes of farming, of hunting, fishing, trapping and also for sacred religious and cultural practices. It's a short bill, but as we always say, it's not simple and it's not easy. The outcomes of this bill, what it does is it's proposing that the Abenaki tribes would have access to state-owned land or state lease land in some cases to do all these things that they did 10,000 years ago. You know, whether it's raised crops, raised animals, hunting, trap fish, forage and also those religious and cultural practices. And hopefully move towards food sovereignty too. I know the Vermont Commission on Native American Affairs and what you've been dealing with this, the truth and accountability process wants to move towards the tribes owning their own land. So their food sovereignty would be much more secure, their food security would be insured if they own their land and how long this process is gonna take, we don't know. And so this, I see this bill as something incremental moving towards that. It's not, as I think Carol McGanigan said from the VCNAA that she was cautious that she didn't wanna, if this bill made it to the finish line, that we'd all say, well, that's close enough to the truth and accountability process. Let's, we're done now. I don't see it that way at all. And I suspect this committee wouldn't either, given that you know a lot more about Abenaki, that whole process of this truth and accountability than I certainly do. So I see this as, you know, if you take Forest Parks and Rec or you take BGS or you take the Department of Corrections, you know, there's so much land in Vermont, like just the state forest, I think, or it's like 350,000 acres. It seems like there's enough land out there to make this work. And I also think, you know, there need to be rules and vetting involved in this agencies and departments and the tribes and the VCNAA, you know, working this out with a spirit of collaboration. But, you know, if you go from the tribes not being really federally recognized and Vermont not being the state of Vermont sort of following along that with that finding to go from no land to potentially a lot of land or enough land to raise plenty of food, it seems like it would be a very healthy bill to become law. And I can see, you know, think of something like the Windsor Prison where there's so many painful memories there, but it's 100 acres, it's a 100 acre farm to turn that into a garden would be really spectacular thing. Or, you know, rich flood plain in the Nalhegan Basin and the same thing, you could grow a lot of crops there. Many pitfalls in this bill.  But, so I'm out of my comfort zone with this bill and I feel it's important to pitch it to you and I really trust this committee to do a good job vetting it. For example, talking with Damien Leonard at Legislative Council who draws up these bills for your committee. We decided to remain silent on potential, you know, there are all these contingencies that always come up. And so we decided to remain silent on say commercial uses of state land. So say a tribe had, you know, a 10,000 tap sugar bush. You know, is that, would that be too much on state land or if they made too much money, you know, would there be a cap on it? So, or could they have a farm stand on state land if they grew a lot of pumpkins? But those are the sort of things I think this committee would vet very well and figure out, you know, maybe in consultation and engagement with the departments and the agencies. You know, how does this work? You know, there has to be a way to figure this out so that it's not abused. But at the same time, there are opportunities there for the tribes. So good luck with that. And along those lines, on the precedents of it, I found out talking to Commissioner Steiner from FPR that already there are a bunch of usage and access rules for tribes. Like we're all Vermonters for say, for example, say foraging in our state forest. You can do that now. And I know, I think this committee, you were the ones who were probably vetting was it last year's bills on hunting licenses for ever hunting licenses or hunting licenses for tribes. And also that having, was it state parks use Abenaki names also. So you have some experience with this, but I also think a lot of the agencies that would be involved here also have experience with tribal matters. So, Insumation, which is the sweetest word in the English language, since we all sit in meetings, we're almost there. You know, this is that I found bipartisan support for this. And it was funny because representative Donahue said, this is great, it opens an important dialogue and representative Webb said, all right, I'll sign on, but this may open a can of worms. And I think it's, you know, both of those are really true. And then talking to Commissioner Steiner, he said, yeah, it's not gonna be easy. It's not gonna be simple, but we're happy to engage. And I think if this committee is like that, if the stakeholders engage, who knows where this could go, but I have a good feeling about it. So thank you very much. And any questions? See, Tommy. Representative Wallace, then I go. Yeah, thank you. Thanks, John, for presenting that. I grew up in Maine where there was a similar issue that tribes there were recognized by the state, but not by the federal government. And when they finally did get federal recognition, the state ceded them, and I forget the exact amount, but it was many hundreds of acres of land. And I'm just wondering if that would be a solution here when it comes to questions of what's appropriate use, you know, should they be commercial? Commercial activity of the land, which the Maine Indians have done. They've done logging, for example. I wonder if a way to get around this is just to cede the land to them. And it's theirs to do with as they wish. You know, it's not in this bill, but I think that's gonna be a discussion going forward, you know, in future bienniums, because I know the tribes would like to have ownership of land in Vermont that they can do with what they see fit. But I, you know, and I don't know, I think even in Maine, right, that it was controversial as far as it wasn't necessarily the same land where these tribes traditionally were from. For example, yeah. Well, typical in our dealing with Native Americans, right. Basically, it was paper company land. The paper companies weren't using any more and nobody wanted it. So that's what they gave them, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would hope in Vermont, you know, if and when we could get to that point, it won't be like, well, we'll give the Nalhegan tribe the whole Belvedere Eden asbestos mine. It won't be like that. It'd be like, we'll give them, you know, traditional lands. Well, and I think you're to that point representative, it's that's exactly what the issue would be. I mean, it's like, do you give people gristle or are you giving them something that's worthwhile? And I think that there's a stereotypical default to the gristle, because that's easier to give away. But that's not what, I don't think that's the work that we're looking at right now. Representative Hago, then Kulaki. Thank you, Representative O'Brien, for bringing this forward. I do have Abnaki in my district and this is a really interesting bill. So I appreciate it. I also appreciate your comments about doing your first bill introductions. I felt very similar in your committee the other day. So thanks for that, that gave you a good laugh. Representative Kulaki, then Byron. Thank you, Representative O'Brien. I believe the Vermont Land Trust has now entered into agreements with the tribes who allow access for some of these things you're talking about in your bill to their land.  Do you know? I don't know, Representative Kulaki. I mean, I've heard that there's another bill that's probably, it's coming before you. It has already come about making Abnaki lands tax exempt. And they don't really even own their own land, but they have arrangements for not for profits being the intermediary so that it's as close as they can get. And I think some of those lands are Vermont Land Trust lands. So I suspect that relationship is somewhat ahead of where this bill would go, but similar sort of arrangements. Okay, and then I just, one word, I just wanna make sure I understood the intention of it in your bill, it says vested interest. And so if people are growing, nothing in this section on page three shall be constructed to require taking a vested property interest. But if I was allowed to grow crops on a land, which sounds fantastic, wouldn't I wanna have some kind of vested interest in that plot so that Representative Toronto wouldn't come over and his motorcycle and take all my crops away? You know, or I don't know what vested means. And so, and I know this is an introduction, but what did you mean by that? As far as I know, I mean, I think we should probably defer to legal counsel on that. Right, because I think it may be, I know in real estate law, it probably has a different meaning somewhat than what I would guess it to be. So it may just be that they don't own the ground on which they're growing crops or have some sort of right to it. And almost like a dairy farmer leasing a hay field, it's probably something similar to that. Well, thank you very much. And it may very well be a real estate illusion, maybe like a state-sponsored condemnation of a property or the taking of a property where the state or the municipality or whoever determines, yes, we need that. We'll give it to you for, we'll buy what we determine with the market. I mean, all that's the messy real estate deals because this is what that's trying to avoid right there. Representative Byron. Thank you. Lease was the perfect segue. You're talking about leased land that the state owns. I was just trying to like, spin through my mind of examples I know of that. So you have an entity like Stowe Mountain leases that portion of like Mount Mansfield from the state, but they own the gear and blah, blah, blah. So what are other examples of leased land? Cause that's really the only type that I know of right now that this would be. Is that like logging? Like I'm not even sure. Yeah. That's certainly above my pay grade too. It came up, I think, you know, when Damien was crafting this and that's the sort of thing right where whoever has whatever agency say has jurisdiction over that, you know, they, I can see them saying like, this is too complicated. Let's drop this or let, you know, let us work this out with the tribes depending on right, how long the lease is and what sort of protections the tribes would have if they started to do some of the stuff that this bill allows them to do on that land. Now there are all those questions of like, could the tribe, right, could a tribe grow tobacco on the face that at Stowe or on the state house lawn? I mean, those are the sort of things that maybe, but you know, I think it would be a vetting process that hopefully everybody could agree on. And you guys are, you do housing. So it was interesting yesterday and actually on Representative Hango's bill that it has to do with the Highgate Airport and next to it is the Franklin County Field Days Land which is actually state owned. It's on the state state owned airport land and it apparently looked like a developer wants to come in and put an industrial park there, but the state might actually sell a certain amount of acres to that developer. And that, I never actually heard that the state, you know, is sort of a realtor and they potentially might sell acres. I know they're, we're always doing land swaps and things like that. But I was, it was the first time I've heard that the state actually could sell land. And you might know more about that as a committee. I mean, that's through the capital. That's through institutions committee. They have to go through a process of when they want to shed land or lease land or, and then when you're dealing with airports, it's a whole different story as well because there has to be, you know, there was to be set back and stuff, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, I mean the land, the state, it fluctuates. You know, I don't know they ever call it surplus land, but it just, it fluctuates. So representative Murphy, then Toronto. I was just going to share. I don't know if it would be too informal, but when you were speaking of any of these circumstances of leasing land, I have friends who have certain amount of acreage that they don't care to maintain, but a local farmer haze it for them. And so they do the fields and stuff. And he, and there's no fee. He gets crop and they get their meadows maintained. So, you know, I think there are mutually agreeable situations that get worked out and could be used as examples. Yeah, that's a good point. And I know that just growing up in Tumbridge that we've gone from with that very example, we've gone from the farmers, you know, back in the 1970s and 80s actually paying, say a neighbor who has a field for the hay, for standing hay. And then it's gotten to, you know, where it was, please just take my field, you do, you can have the hay. And now it's getting to the point where those neighbors are paying the farmers to actually cut the field. So they get paid for it and they get a crop. Is that right? I have the same arranger with my neighbor who haze my fields and he feeds it to his brief cattle.  And he does maintain the fields with some manure and as you say, maintains it and keeps them open. You know, it's really valuable to me to have open land. But I guess my question, John, is if you know, with this, are you considering this to be exclusive rights? For instance, you know, we've got 2,300 acres here on Standard Mountain. That's part of the Steam Mill Brook Wildlife Preserve. It's a very popular hunting fishing area. And certainly, you know, I think there's a great idea and certainly native people would be welcome if they could find it. But it's not an easy access. But, you know, would this be an exclusive right? Would you anticipate or would it be open to the general public? Have you given that thought?  I mean, I think there would have to be some protections if there was farming going on or, you know, hunting or fishing, you know, when the season might be different, which I think it already is for some tribes with fish and wildlife. So as long as there were protections, you know, I think there are also great educational opportunities for Vermonters here, too, that if, you know, here's 100 acres of, say, traditional avanecki, husbandry, you know, what does that look like? What could we learn from that? We could take school trips there. I see a lot of that potentially, too. Yeah. That sounds great. This is a nice piece of work, John. Thank you. All right. Further questions for Representative O'Brien? Chair Steven? Yes. Is there any way, I know once it's happened on your committee webpage, you know, I could find out who was called to testify on the bill. Is there, sort of, I guess, looking at the agenda every week, is there a notice that, oh, we're going to look at, you know, this bill this week? And does anything like that happen? Well, we schedule about a week out in advance. Okay. I work with the vice chair and our chair. I work with the vice chair and our committee assistant. We set an agenda for the following week. And we usually release that agenda, you know, as early as Friday afternoons, as late as Monday afternoons. So there is some advanced warning. We would call witnesses. I mean, you mentioned Mike Snyder, he would certainly be at the top of the list to talk about. And I have two bills that I'll talk about when you're done here that don't fit hand and glove with this, but that are related to land. And I have an active use of land, but I think you brought up a very important point is that some of these organizations, whether it's the land trust, whether it's the state already have certain agreements with the government, or the state that the commission is working on, or I think it's the best strategy about certain. Access points that they can utilize.  Or do we, you know, however that works, does it land in trust? Is it ownership rights?  There's all these different mechanisms that can be used. It's just a question of what does this, what does the state do? And the fact that I mean, my experience with commissioner Snyder has always been positive. He's always been very engaged in these conversations. He's not one to, and you expressed it in a different way that I'm going to say, but he's never wanted to just say no and make it that hard. He's always interested in hearing what the, what the question is and to see if it's a problem that can be solved knowing full well that the system is. Arrayed against the simplest ideas. But he's always engaged in trying to find a solution that, that would honor the request. So he's definitely high. So that's a long way to say, yeah, we, we, we post our, we post our agenda. Pretty much a week before. Okay. That's super helpful, right? If I just go Monday and look at your agenda, then I could just in case they're, they're stakeholders who are interested in, in watching as I am. Yes. It's certainly, I mean, I think we all, we, you know, there are specific stakeholders that you would like us to hear, please forward those on to me or to run wild and, and we'll, you know, keep a folder of possibilities. And I know, of course, you know, we'll talk to Chief Stevens. We'll talk to the commission. We'll talk to commissioner Snyder. There may be others. Again, you'll hear it, you know, there's plenty of folks on this bill on these next two bills that, that are connected. But, you know, we want to see what's possible. Yep. That's great. All right. Thank you. Representative try that was that a new man or. No, okay. All right. He has a legacy of legacy hands. Really will be his legacy. No, it won't. If you didn't mean it that way. I miss what he said, but did you say by wrong? The legacy hand will be your biggest legacy. I would hope that it'd be a little bit better. Yeah. I understand, but blue hand is a blue hand. I understand that the agriculture committee wasn't meeting today. So you're free to stay. If you'd like to hear these other bills, these other happen after related bills. If not, then thank you so much. Have a very weekend. Thanks. You too. All right. I'm going to. I guess motor. To the bottom of it. Are we not doing a 520? He's not here yet. He didn't respond. Nor did his committee assistant. Okay. He did respond to the invitation some days ago. I saw. I can't feel hitting the streets on our way up here. All right. Well, Representative Massel works at home. So. What I was saying, it looked like the meeting had broken to the day. Yeah. All right. I am going to. Start with S. 620. Which is a short form. It's a bill I put in. What's that? Beach. What did I say? My ambition. It's over the course of the fall. We've been in conversation as always with. Different folks from the. The month. Commission on Native American affairs through mostly through the chair. Carol McGrana hand. Or some of the other. What do I say? Yes. My ambition. We get to S. 620s man. Yeah. Each 620. Over the course of the fall. We've been in conversation as always with. Different folks from the. The month. The month. Through mostly through the chair Carol McGrana hand. Or some of the other. Or some of the other cheese. And they brought forward a list of priorities as people do. And this was one of them. This is a short form. That. So it goes into. Or it's connected in some way to what represented. And I'm just reading the statement of the purpose of the bill. Is that it proposes to clarify the right of recognize. Abinac tribes and bands to own land. In Vermont and to create a study committee to examine possible mechanisms to allow for the repatriation. Of traditional Abinac lands to the tribes. Through mechanisms such as a transfer of title. The establishment of permanent easements and other novel. Legal mechanisms. That would ensure the perpetual preservation and protection of land and access to it for use by the Abinac. So it's really just a. An idea is to. The first part to clarify the right of recognize tribes are statute when we, when we pass the recognition statutes. We expressly put in that recognition does not mean. That land would be granted to them. So it's not just a right to recognize tribes. It's not just that there are no rights of, you know, whether it's casinos or, or, or other. Businesses like that. That's. That can fall. To federally recognized tribes. So the idea of clarifying the right. To own land in Vermont. Is they can own lands. Let's purchase some of their own accord. They can own. Non-profit organizations. They may be. So the question of how that would work or to clarify, I think, I think one of the issues again brought up by representative Brian is that getting an idea of how the state interacts with the Abinac is already would be one thing, but the key thing here is, is a committee to examine the possible mechanisms to allow for repatriation of traditional land. So it's. Ownership. Primarily. And in other states, there might be a rather than this being granted to a particular tribal band. It may be held in trust. In other states, they hold them in trust so that. That the. The indigenous people feel like they can come and go as they please on land that they have control over. It's an important right. That's a step above what is proposed in the, in the previous bill. The second bill. That have this has a small number of blocks that's 20 plus sponsors to it. And this is about protection of Abinac the sacred sites and providing a tax exemption for those sites if they own it. Or it could be for. People who have these sites on their properties. And this is obviously important to them and historical. Historical. Light. The clearest example I have is the petrocliffs. In the Connecticut river. That. In other states recently, there has been. Damage done has been. There's been graffiti or. Over scratching. Some sacred. Some sacred sites in different parts of the country. And so the key on this one. The first key is that it would develop a list and identify to state. Sites and locations in Vermont that have cultural religious or spiritual significance to Native American Indians. Or are used by Native American Indians for cultural religious or spiritual purposes with both. That the. State would be able to consult. There's a definition here of consult, which is new to me. I don't know if it's new in state language. It was in representative of O'Brien's bill as well. This commission, this study would, would also make recommendations to the state regarding the acquisition and facilitation of access to these cultural and sacred sites that are located on private lands and currently inaccessible to Native American Indians. It would make recommendations to the general assembly regarding possible legislative actions. To encourage private property owners to preserve and protect these sites. And to allow access. And then. It does do. A change. To the. The way the commission meets about how many times the commission can meet and. Commissioners would be receiving. The per diem in which it would say that the commission shall meet as needed. No more than nine times a year. Which according to the commission is still short of what they usually. Do, but this would allow them to get paid for nine. At the per diem rate, which is fairly low. For nine meetings rather than six. And then. These. Records of. Sacred sites. Like the applications that were made. For recognition. Would be considered to be confidential. And shall not be subject to copying or instruction. And that's. That's something that's very important. That was very important during the recognition process. Given that people. Native Americans have felt attacked by others who. Dispute their, their. Status. And then this idea of consulting, you know, that there's a statement of intent here. About the protection. Of cultural and sacred sites saying that it's policy, a state of amount of protection, preserving the inherent right of the members of the month, Native American Indians. People's to believe, express and exercise their traditional beliefs and cultural and religious practices, including through. Access to Native American cultural and sacred sites. The use and possession of culturally significant or sacred objects and materials, including tobacco. And the freedom to product to practice traditional ceremonies and rights. And then it gives. A list of things at the state. Will allow, which is committing access. For ceremonial purposes. These sites, these cultural sites that are owned on property. Owned or at least by the state. And. The consultation with the commission shall be conducted in a way that's mutually respectful and shall recognize the potential need for confidentiality. And so. With respect to the particular Native American cultural. And sacred site. And then there's a repetition of what we just saw and. Representative O'Brien's bill about the vested in property interests. And. And again, the last on page, the bottom of page five, so you use that definition. Of consult. Which it means to engage in a meaningful and timely process of considering carefully the views. Of others in a manner that is cognizant of all parties, cultural values and where feasible seeking. Agreement. The last section, section three or the last substantive section, section three is, is a. That real property identified as Native American cultural or sacred site. Pursuant to this show. The tax exempt. So. That is this bill. And the two of them together are. They. There is a bill in ways and means that represents Sims. I believe it was really sponsored along. That was. I'm on that as well. The one about. Tax exemption bill. Which is different than this. It's because it's about, it's about tribe property. That's like existing for the purpose of that. Right. And that one, they'll, you know, if they take that bill up, it takes, I think that. The, I think the financial. Commitment to that is less than $15,000 a year. So, but that's in, you know, that's in their committee. So these bills. You know, these are, these are part of. These are part of a list of priorities from, from the tribes and from the commission. They are. There are others, I believe. And we'll consider as we can, as we see fit as we can, you know, it's, it's a long. Ongoing process of, of trying to make a certain piece with the out of the. In ways that we can. That are meaningful. And, you know, I think we've heard that farming is important. Certainly in the past hunting is important. Identification of place names is important. And those are smaller, really low cost items. Repatriation is a harder conversation to have because that's a deeper ownership issue and how we deal with state property and, and then moving ownership to any of that. Those are the conversations that we have in this committee when we have this, when we have this subject. That's what I have on these two bills. Okay. I can't see if anybody's asking questions. I took it down because I, for me, the complexity in this bill is the issue of. Public access with nonprofit status. So if it's on private land. If it's granted nonprofit status, I think that it has to have access to it. So I, and I think it's in this bill. I mean, I'm part of this. I'm supportive of this bill, but I think that that's the twist for me that we have to really, really figure out what that means, what it really can look like. So, right. There are so many potential answers to it that. We would just have to sort out. You know what, you know, what would work. All right. Let's take. 10 minutes and come back to and. 477, I think.