So crazy today, but that's normal, I guess, so no different than last time. How are you doing? Yeah, this was no good day either for us, because we had a training and we decided to do it on OKD. And every sick works fine with OKD, but the operators are still a problem. Everything is here, but yeah, always some little parts are missing and if you don't are used to developing it, it's a hard time. Yeah, a bunch of work still to be done. Yes. Newed everybody here. Hi, Jamie. Hi, Jamie. Get myself set up here for back and forth. I know this is the doc to add your name to if you haven't already. So I'm going to do that and today is that I don't have to add my name. I'm going to share my screen and through this. Yeah, I think everybody is working at sort of mock 10 today.  And let me see if I can round up the other dudes. All right, Chrissy. So the good news is we wait for everybody else to do this. I don't know if you saw my screen while we wait for folks to join. And if you want to just going to share my screen. And if you see more than you should, then I apologize because I have way too many tabs open. But I don't know if all of you noticed, but the code ready container is up. And we, and so for the training that you were just talking about Joseph. Would the code ready container have helped at all. No, maybe short sentence about this. We have organized the training over two weeks. I decided to use OKD, but not OpenShift. And the thing is we like to see showcases for service mesh operator, OpenShift pipeline operator and the serverless operator. I was able it was very easy to deploy the pipelines operator. Yeah, it works like a charm on OKD. We also almost managed today to get the serverless operator running on OKD. It's also very possible.  It's okay. But the service mesh. Yeah, it was a little bit frustrating because it tries to pull images from Docker Hub that are not even there in this version, in the current version of the service mesh. And yeah, it's hard to find the repositories to build it on your own. It's a lot of reverse engineering. I want, I don't want to complain too much. I know, yeah, there is still work to do. But if you have a deadline and I'm, yeah, it's my own fault. Yeah, because I decided to use OKD. And but yeah, I want to see that via short before getting it running. Our plan B is to mirror the redhead. The service mesh operated from the redhead registry. It's our plan B for this workshop. Don't worry about complaining, Joseph. It's good. No, I don't pay too much to complain about anything. So I can see that Christian has joined. And so I think we can kick this off even though we're a couple minutes after the hour. And I'm going to make sure I'm recording and I'm going to apologize in advance. I have not posted like the last three videos yet from the past meetings. I'm very far behind on that. I know I will endeavor to get that up over the weekend and do all my uploads. So other than that, let's rock and roll a little bit here today. There's a couple of new people here. And so I'm going to just show where just sort of how we add it. If you can add your names into the working group meeting notes so that we can just keep track of attendance. That's great. And let me just see if I have this. So we had asked to see if Clement was going to join and his comments on the call. That was the him here. It doesn't look like it. I can ping him on Slack. Maybe he has, maybe he can join. Join if you see, let's see if we can. We've been trying to get the container SIG, the Fedora container SIG folks re kicked off or rebooted with some help. So that's there. So if we can do that. So this is the page that we use for running the agenda. And so if you have other ones. Does it make sense to clear that up a little bit because I think a few say at least the tickets are already solved just to just to get the overview or keeps the overview just just an idea. Could you could you repeat that I sorry someone just interrupted my train of thought. I was asking you, maybe it makes sense to clean up this board a little bit because we have lots, lots of tasks that already are accomplished. Yeah, no, we can definitely do that. So this, this just one column was the things that I used to drive through the stuff. So if there's things that we can take off today, let's let's do that. And then these are just notes and things that we were doing so we can, we can hide those boards as well. Yeah, that's how I'm happy to do that. Do you want to give a quick update Christian on okay before and any work that's going on. I don't really have anything concrete to show. I think Vadim has cut a new release. And yeah, other than that, there's no, no, no measurable progress on any of our stories. So we're still having some problems with delivering the Windows machine config operator which we kind of want to use as a template for all the other operators to deliver to get to an open source or community catalog of operators. I do hope that will be solved rather soon. So hopefully next time we will kind of have have that template how do we deliver all of our operators to okay D as well. Really quick. Yeah, there's one issue the the operator hub still uses the older format for for catalogs. While we internally already use the new one. There's an open issue. I'm kind of tracking because I think it'll be easier for the teams that work on those operators to just have one one way of distributing them one kind of release tooling. They use instead of doing it the old way and then migrating that to the new way once operator does it too. It's been in the issue has been open for a bit so I hope they they get to it soon on the operator upside. Do you have any idea what's holding that up. I'm not sure I can find the issue real quick it's yeah I'm not sure what's the what's the weight here. Can we throw the issue on in the chat that would be great. Is that an issue for operator hub IO the external one or operator hub internal to open shift. It's the external one, I think. So I will, I will try to find that issue I yeah, I'll have to dig for the link. I am seeing claymore has joined now. You can. Hey, tackle that first. Oh, yeah, sorry. I was looking for the bludgeon link. All right, so you. So just to finish up that one if you can find the link to the operator hub dot IO request. There, there aren't as many eyeballs on that as they were previously. I'm mostly focusing on the CNCF side of thing this DK and OLM and shoot that to me and I will try and get that wrangled in the next week or so. I didn't see that one. So apologies. All right, so welcome, we have been talking about you so your ears must be burning and we've been talking about you off and on for a month or so. So we wanted to give you or maybe more than that. We haven't been able to connect as a community with the fedora container sake in a real way. So I kind of wanted to have a little take a little time today to talk about what the goals and the mission of the fedora container sake is and where where you see us helping out. So I wanted to give you guys the floor to do that and then people can ask you questions. Yeah, so I see Bruce that was there when we had a pretty much just after nest. So I think end of August or on that time we we met to discuss kind of restarting the container sake. Because it was started like two years ago or so. And we are like a good start but things fell off a bit like people got other priorities and we are like a strong. A strong commitment of people that could dedicate some time to help there. And pretty much we came up when we met we came up with like three main goals. The first one I think that's the main priority for the sake is the fedora base container image. So the maintenance of this image and making sure that they are taken to a disease and updates and things like that. The second one was about layered image or the maintenance making the maintenance of layered image. Little bit pretty much improving the experience there. And one that we discussed with Bruce was about helping you guys.  I think really this you kind of come up in the second goal. Because if I understood correctly, you're really looking at building images that will be available after in the in the catalog or in OKD. So that will be mostly layered, layered images. And unfortunately, currently the experience of maintaining layer images is not great. The documentations are like almost inexistent. And I don't think we have many people working on that currently. So that's kind of the 10,000 view summary. So who is in the SIG at this juncture? Like is it just you and a couple of other folks? Or, you know, what sort of resourcing do you have to do this work? Yeah, active. I think we pretty much say like three, three or four people. And we're not like, you know, it's just, I guess, like most of you, it's like kind of per time kind of activities. So my me and people really dedicate a lot of our time to the base image, the federal base image. And we have a couple of folks. So Jacob Tricard that worked a lot on trying to have like multi-arch builds and like a neglect. I mean, I think he did build quite a lot of the punch shift. And before, okay, he built a lot of the origin images for in the federal registry. So for X86 and AR64. And we have another person that works on the OSBS project. So the upstream project that we used to build container images. So I'm told three, but that is helping more hopefully it can help us more with like improving some of the process. And if we need specific development in upstream OSBS to enable some of the federal specific workflow. So yeah, that's pretty much. But it looks like there's at least one volunteer from this group to join. And I don't know why James is constantly, I'm going to unmute everybody. And James, you can put your camera on if you're don't have bed head like me. And so it looks like that that James Castle who's on the call right now is interested in joining and helping and maybe if we could get one person from this group. And Neil's raising his hands. Yeah, I just have no idea what I'm supposed to do. I mean, I tried to join the earlier incarnation of the container stick a couple of years ago when it was first being started up but, and I did a lot of the early reviews for most of the initial images. Like I have no idea how to do anything and that's sort of, that's sort of been the problem. Yeah. I think that's still a lot of the, so a lot of the fundamental issues we have still things that are that needs a lot of specific knowledge. So to improve the, the experience that will require some development in OSBS or from enabling some tools in the federal infrastructures and things like that. And it's honestly not something that is even someone that is very dedicated and very interested that goes through the effort of learning the tools and like trying to understand things. Unfortunately, they will hit a wall of like permissions and not having like the correct permissions to try to deploy things and things like that. So that's kind of pulling back on me and the pool people should should have the permissions there. After there is, I think there is a lot of, I think there is still value in you guys trying to build your images and like reporting what what doesn't work. What is painful and also helping in the documentation on like how to get started with maintaining a container image and like, you know, kind of just go through the experience cry a little bit and every time you cry open the tickets had a bit of documentation. So I should just go ahead and try to make a pregnant container and let's see how badly I flub it. I think we still have like a few active maintainers. I think the Python container is still the Python classroom container I think is still maintained. Some of the databases are still maintained, but yeah, that could also be. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah, another way to kind of also maybe quickly join and like help is to look for an image that is already available in Fedora but is that is not maintained anymore and try to maybe pick it up and try to build it and like see if it builds if you just kind of pick up an old image. What's the process for adding a new image is it is it in disk it as well the Docker files so they're sort of just get and the creating a new repository essentially how does one request those. Yeah, you open a bugzilla there is a review. We have a fairly, we have some guidelines. You kind of you should be able to do it. And once the bugzilla is approved you have your disk repository. And then you have a Fed package container build command. Then you start to cry. And when I'm just going to ask the blunt when are you meeting when are your meetings. So, currently we don't have meetings because we just tell that we will see if we need them currently we didn't really need them at the meeting we had was like oh I didn't have time to do anything that's the couple weeks. Me neither me neither me neither so we were basically meeting just to. The fact. Yeah, we were meeting to acknowledge the fact that we we didn't have time to work on anything. So we revive the mailing list. All in August and this is the this should be the main place to have communication. And if we feel that we have a subject that is important enough to meet another video call or an ISE thing that should be bought on the mailing list. We have also an ISE channel thing which is maybe the most active place where. Which one is Fedora containers containers. Yeah. I can put in the. Cool. So questions or things like this is the place to. So I think we have done our done our duty here we've connected some dots we've gotten you some volunteers and so if. We can maybe ask Jamie and who else is Jamie's thing Mike and others to look at that and then just let us know back here in this working group. When and if we need to do something or get our acting gear. I think that'll help flavor the whole collaboration. And yeah so. Do you have an idea of the images you want to do because I think we have a lot of. There are quite a lot of the S2 is images there. Yeah the the S2 is stack seems to be like horrifically out of date but yeah that's that's that's the that's the big one. And the other one is like making sure we have services pieces like databases and. And things like that.  Yeah, the usual basic things that people usually plug together to make operators or helm charts or whatever for applications. Specifically at least from something that I've been trying to poke around doing and I haven't really figured it out yet is that. There's been an ask for a little while now for a pecker to be able to run on open shift and Kubernetes as an operator or a helm chart or whatever. And like figuring out how to containerize the application and getting that running and having all those pieces. Like I'd like to have all that working with Fedora official containers with those with the latest software pieces python stack. All that sort of stuff like all the goodies that people tend to expect for this sort of thing and get it to a point where the pecker project can say hey. You want to fully supported containerized deployment. For production uses here you go this is the way. Because right now we don't have that. I think, honestly, an easy way for you to get involved it would be to look at those old S2 is images and just like try to. Like move them from whatever I don't know Fedora 28 or so to. I think they're on the door. Yeah, so kind of removing removing the dust and trying to have those images and any pain points or anything like this. Yeah, try to report them and. Yeah. Hey, this is this is Craig. I worked on a couple of the S2 images. Maria DB recently and the PHP S2 image. So I'm going through and made some commits to those to get them on the latest versions. I was just I was really just planning to do pretty much everything that's in the open shift catalog and just go down through through the list. This is my current plan unless something else comes out of this call. That's a better a better way of doing it. I think that makes a lot of sense. But it is what it is. Yeah, I just kind of want in my opinion, which is right around we want everything that's in the open shift catalog available for okay be just the door version of the containers if possible. Yeah, definitely. So right now with the with the containers we built on our proud CI, which we then release as the okay be payload. They're all UBI 8 based, so we don't have any Fedora based containers there yet. We might change that, but that's not our focus right now. So for the, like the non core images, though, we definitely want to push for using Fedora based images. So I think having all the already existing containers updated would be great. And then as kind of a second step, looking into how we deliver operators, which are kind of meta containers, they have this bundle container now that references other containers. So, yeah, if we could leverage the Fedora disk it for versioning those as well, and then really having Fedora based operators, which are just made of Fedora based containers, that would be kind of a second step after that, which I want to do. So I really want to get us to a point where we can easily develop operators on Fedora containers and also release them release them through the Fedora infrastructure that is in place. Okay. The issue I had, and I can't remember if it was the PHP container or the MariaDB container, I think it was MariaDB, but I was able to get it updated. And I think the code was committed to the repo and the test field worked. But I don't know how to get it to the Fedora registry after that. Or how does that process work? Once you get a container that's been updated to, you know, say the latest version, how does it get into the Fedora registry? Who does that? Or whoever maintains the container? So it was a wrong question. You probably know it best, so I'll let you. It's also relatively similar to RPM packages. You have to create an update in body, and you can select the code g container build there. But exactly remember, I think it's shorter than RPM. I think after three days or so, it gets pushed on the, we have a candidate registry where you can test things. And after it moves from the candidate registry to the official. Yep, that's a problem with this. Yeah, the IAC channel is a good place to ask. And in order to be able to do that, you have to be at least a co-maintainer of that disk repository where the Dockerfile is going to be stored. The one thing that is confusing me slightly, and maybe this is kind of a dumb question, but why are we namespacing the containers with the Fedora version? It's an historical thing that needs to move. So this is the thing that we want to fix rather than a thing that has a reason to stay. I think it's the first or second open issue, the container thing. Okay. Yeah, because like I was a little confused about that. And I wonder, because I can't think of a good way of handling like needing to upgrade the image progressively if you have to like literally change the path in which it is pulled from. And I would hope that we would make it easier for people to just, you know, move forward. I think there's just a bit of what to do in the Dockerfile and they build the image and that should be okay now because flat packs are not namespaced. Right. It's just historical. Okay, cool. That makes things easier. I just pasted a link to the Pigger instance, which is our disk it and there's the namespace container in there, which holds all the repositories for containers that are currently in the registry. And yeah, if you want to own a container or help building one, it's probably best to if you want to get involved to reach out to the current maintainers, especially if they haven't been actively pushing updates. And ask for you to become a co-maintainer on that repository so you can push your own updates there. So one ask I have, and I will go ahead and also contribute to this with some containers. But if we can get the steps needed, a document really for dummies for people that have absolutely no prior knowledge, that'd be great. If you do that, jot down the steps you're taking here and then we can hopefully build up a documentation around this to make it easier for new people who join us here. Bruce waving his hands, was he volunteering to write that or just wanting it? No, just being a dummy. Okay, well. I mean, now that we're essentially getting into the process, the same process that's also used for RPMs, which is, and everybody knows that there's no happy packages in Fedora. So, yeah, it's definitely a little bit annoying to work with this kit. It's definitely worst in the container long, so it's not right. Okay. Well, if you get the, so, Clement, are you going to take on writing up the instructions or you need? Yeah, so we have some documentation. I will review this and see. Yeah, I think last time when we talked with Bruce, I don't think we have a easy, like, just getting started with how to maintain a container image or thing. So that's definitely something we need an API to have a look at that. Clement, do you know if that's the same group as for RPM packages, like the Packager Group in Fedora? For RPMs, you have to be a member of that group in order to be able to. To maintain one. Yeah, at the beginning of the SIG, we discussed being a container Packager or whatever group. But, like, we never had enough people wanting to just maintain containers to, like, actually make this, like, the request and going through the process of creating a new group and everything like worth it. Most of the time, the people that are maintaining the RPMs are where the people that were maintaining the containers, so they were already part of the Packager Group. That's one big thing also I didn't mention. You can only build containers from RPMs that are available in Fedora. So if you're trying to do a container for something that is not Package in Fedora, that will not work. That sounds like an interesting roadblock for some of our containers. But we'll figure it out. Yeah, it's a lot of work to be able to, not to be able to build from non-RPMs, because we have to be able to provide the source of the application. And yeah, it's, I know that internally after that, they start to do it. Honestly, to deploy this in Fedora is going to be a lot of effort. Well, at least there'll be more of you and more of us to work on it and figure it out. But I think the documentation, and if you can put a link to what exists now would be great in the chat, and maybe we can figure out how to socialize this in an easier version. And maybe Bruce, if Bruce, you can take a look at the documentation and add in some thoughts about what's missing to make it simple that would be helpful as well. Sure. I know he's a teacher. So teachers usually configure these things out and make it simple and break it down for us and see what's missing. You know, there's, we assume that people know everything it is about RPM and packaging in Fedora land and don't rewrite anything that there's tons of content on that. But yeah, maybe that's, that's something that we need some better documentation and how to guides. So, because we're going to rely on you guys for some stuff here going forward. So, I, yeah, I wanted to, I noticed Christie was on the call. And I did look up your background. So I wanted you to just introduce yourself quickly and say what your goals are, perhaps from your side of the house. Sure. I'm curious what you found in my background. I mean, my goal, I guess I'll start with that is that was asking someone if okay D was supported on power, the power IBM's power architecture and the answer was no. And then I should join this call and find out some things so I just kind of jumped in to see. And so I know we have Kubernetes support for power and then clearly I don't know if you guys are aware but we have open shift support for power. And also the mainframe platform as soon as X. So my background is that I've been working a lot with containers on power for probably the last four years and so this is sort of the. I got a lot of the Docker stuff done and did some like the Docker see I work and some other things before now we've sort of shifted with during Docker and podman and no open shift and it's just like everything. So that's, I might guess my background is just continue. So it was going to find out what we can do to help with any of this stuff that doesn't necessarily have to be just only do power work. I know that the community needs lots of help everywhere. So that's what I'm here to find out really. Okay, maybe to give some more context, you may know a bit of that already. So we have the CI system, which is proud that only builds on x86. And we actually take CI builds from that system for our OKD releases. So for the normal OCP open shift release. Those containers will actually all be rebuilt on another system internally. That is then x86. We have the RPC and all those architectures there, but we don't have those architectures in Pro. So the real blocker is really that we don't have a system to build OKD releases for other architectures. That's not only RPC, that's also ARM and the likes. I'm not sure how we can kind of tackle that from here. But maybe that's something the, what is it, the IBM Red Hat Bureau for working together should maybe tackle. Yeah, that's kind of the blocker from here. We don't have a system to build these containers right now. We'd love to do it. Yeah, that would be great. So I, one of the new responsibilities that I have on top of keeping everything I've done in the past years is that I am now a part of the multi-arch team inside of Red Hat. And I'm trying to hand off the CI stuff there to somebody else, but I'm still currently kind of on our CI mission. But we do have, right now, and this isn't going to help. But we have the y'all's x86 CI calls out to this really hacky Liberty. So that the testing is done on power, but none of the building is done in Proud. The systems that you use are that for CI are IBM internal, but the ones you use for building are Red Hat internal. So this is all very much a mess, as you said, as you're aware. And one of the things we've talked about with our multi-arch team is that we are now betaing something. We're supposed to have a different cloud with power, but now we're going to have this sort of our VS cloud with power. And we're betaing that this week with some customers. And the hope is that we'll have, like, a build farm one day so that it just makes it easier off the board that we can kick out and, like, have some Proud stuff. So we have another Proud cluster running in PowerVS right now, but it's not going to help you again. These are all just, like, intermediate steps. So we'll work toward that. But, yeah, today I learned that that is how you guys build things and that that is going to be another reason why we need to get this working so we can plug into Proud. So that's probably what I need to take away from this call. Is there a place, Christian, where we can perhaps log an issue for Proud to support OKD so that we can at least start tracking it? I can't even think of where I would put it. Yeah, me neither, because it's not, we have Proud already, but it's just, it's on the wrong architecture and we will need another public Proud instance, essentially, that is non-internal, which we can then use to build OKD and release from there. It has to be public, non-internal, and it has to run on that architecture on PowerPC. So I'm not sure who the team is that would set up an entirely new cluster or something like that. It's definitely not just the team that manages the existing cluster. Is it out of the question to do something like kind of halfway with maybe QEMU user and having it pretend to be Power so that all this stuff can run? Because I've used QEMU user with Podman and that works, question mark, and I would maybe expect that that might potentially a little bit possibly work? I don't know. We've definitely played with that with some projects like I've got NVIDIA Docker ordered to Power years and years ago, and that was new, and they ended up using the QEMU user. And then when they got the Kermal added the new flag to make it easy, they switched over to, it's slow and every once in a while you're running to something with some sort of weird permissions or some sort of a fork that like doesn't send it off into the right architecture. So it's kind of doable, but you run into problems and it's not speedy for testing and at CD, I know is really, really expecting things to be very, very timely. So I don't know how we can try. I'm just trying to think of a way where we can get somewhere because right now we're nowhere when it comes to alternate architectures. Can I just step back just for a second? I mean, just the build firm that you speak of, is that something that IBM is going to host and or is that something? Yeah, we will. Yeah, we would that's definitely in our interest. I think that we would host and all of the fees that are because we even though it's blue dollars like this stuff isn't free for us to use that cloud. So I think that's something we'd have to just that's way about my pay grade figuring all that stuff out. But yeah. So I think I'm just trying to figure out how to park, not to park this and go away from it, but where we can put an issue into some Trello board or something Christian that we can track it from. I know it's above probably all of our pay grades, the conversation resourcing another prow incident somewhere. So I'll have to think about that and talk to maybe Clayton or Tracy or something. Yeah, it's probably at that level somewhere, because essentially what we need is a few machines dedicated to this, you know, given to us by IBM or whoever that we can use to run a an OKD cluster on top of and then install prow on OKD. Or we could it could be an OCP cluster. It doesn't matter. It just has to be public and then prow on top of that cluster. And then we kind of have to tell it to rebuild all the things we built for a x86 release also built that for, yeah, for power PC. And ideally we'd also get that for ARM somehow. But yeah, I want some at a time, I guess. Yeah, really, the power Z team has been pinging me on a bunch of other things as well, Christie. I mean, we're glad to hear that you've got open shift running on it. So that solves a few problems for me. So probably reach out to you separately as well to talk about that. Yes. The power Z folks want some time at an upcoming on the stage on the upcoming open shift commons gathering that I'm trying to curate a an agenda and schedule for so I was trying to figure out how to fit a talk of some ilk around power Z and open shift in there. So maybe you could collaborate on that with me. Yeah, for sure. Like get on stage and put my red hat. I saw that. Sure. All right. So, yeah, so that's great. And thank you for joining and please come back.  I think really the focus that we're really working on right now is getting those operators working for okay D first. That's really where we're focusing. Trying to get that going so we can keep people like Joseph happy. And also on the CRC, the code ready container that Charo, we talked about at the very beginning of this that that I cheered mightily for when I saw it so enabling people to start playing with okay D locally and get it up and running quickly. That's really been I don't know, Char, if you want to talk a little bit about that before we go on anywhere else and the work that you've done. I think there was one last fix to it around secrets. Oh, yeah. Well, I realized that it's when you run CRC start it's going to ask you for a pull secret, but you don't actually have to have a pull secret you use a fake pull secret. It doesn't work with the fake pull secret that we're used to using it needs a base 64 encoded and so I provided that in the documentation. Okay, there was just foobar base 64 encoded. Awesome. And that works. I'm curious if anybody's downloaded it and run it yet. I was thinking that we might have to do more than just Diane tweeting it to get some. Diane tweeted it. Everybody loved it. I love that everybody loved it but perhaps we could do a bit of a blog post or something about make about its availability and and get that out there too. So, good idea. I'll talk. I'll talk with you and really all it is is mean 500 words here it is announcing blah, blah, blah. And we can do that as a Google doc and then hand it off to a guy whose name is Alex handy. He's used to being handed things off. And he will get that was a bad joke and I'm not allowed to make jokes. So, so let's see if we can get that done child and get some there and if everybody who's on this call could give it a try. Before we post that blog post because if there's anything not working we'd like to know before we go and socialize that there's a lot of it. I'll give it a shot on my laptop. I just upgraded to fedora 33 so we'll see how badly it breaks with with that. Yeah, I've tested it on Mac and on centos eight Lennox. I don't have a windows machine anywhere in proximity windows. I am. I have a I have a pit in my stomach that CRC will be completely and utterly broken in fedora 33. Challenge accepted. I hope and go go break it. So there you go. The other thing I mentioned and then Jamie, I'll ask your here. I just got a buff of birds of a feather session for Kubecon North America. I haven't got all the details, but I made red hat pay for it. So we will we will have a space in the coupon pantheon of hundreds of other talks to do to have a basically lunch and learn session. So that might be if we can get all of our ducks in a row with a CRC by then that'd be I'm sure we will that's November 17. Yeah. That would be great. Jamie to do a presentation for learning and Bruce who's over there wave your hand Bruce is also in an edu situation and is using it in production, I would say, for his classes now to so you can collaborate with him. He's over. He's a neighbor of mine sort of he's at BC it will just call me an institute of technology, which we all know and love here locally. So yeah, that would be great. So suffice to say so if we have a birds of a feather at Kubecon, what I'll do is just probably make Christian and myself the leads on it because you have to name people and then invite all of the okd working group members to come and join the boss as well and coerce one or two of you into talking as I normally do. So I think it's an hour, which is great. And it will be on the on the schedule so be helpful I think to present the CRC and other bits here. And if there's any possibility Christian of having some of those operators ready by the 17th that would be really, really, really nice. We are working heavily on three of them and my question is how can we contribute because there are lots of scripts for OpenShift and I think they need a slide slightly modifications for okd should we create a branch a directory to get the PRs accepted or what is the best strategy to get our changes inside of that. Is this welcome or not? Are you working on that heavily in the background and if you put a PR on that it's overridden by completely different things. So if you don't see a PR on the repositories you're working on from our side then please do open one. Because we don't want a branch of fork much here I would prefer it live on the master branch or the respective release branch probably best starting with the master branch. And then if we can kind of make those scripts item potent somehow maybe an argument or something for it to know what to build. I think that would suffice and each team will review it independently but if we get one or two of those in and they work well I think we can definitely use something like that as a template for all the other operator repositories that we have. And a second question if some current images are missing like for example the service mesh 1.1.8 I think on Docker Hub how do we get them there because for sure we could create our own repository somewhere on Quay. But this rather hack here it would be so great if someone could because there are images already for older versions who one is in charge of for who one does create them I don't understand the process. Yeah, so yeah each team kind of is in charge of keeping those up to date but a lot of those community images haven't been updated a long time. So what we really want to do is introduce that process that is going to happen kind of as part of the usual work but we're not there yet and until we can kind of provide the team with a template here is how you're going to do it very easily. I would suggest you actually create your own registry or repository on a registry and push them there because you'll be able to build them yourselves push them there and yeah we just don't have a way to tell all the teams you have to keep them up to date and push them to the registry. Unfortunately that's not in place yet. It's definitely the thing we want to do but yeah for now it's easier to just rebuild them yourselves. And it's OPM is the way to go for the bundles or is there a different way. So yeah that's what we use internally now is the new bundle format, and I pasted the link earlier here the operator hub doesn't accept that format yet doesn't work that way. I haven't really looked into how the old the yeah how it was done before, but you can probably just do it the same way it wouldn't land on operator hub but you could still pull it in manually or create a new catalog that references it. Okay, thank you. Yeah, this is as a temporary solution in the in the long run. We definitely want all of this to be on operator hub easily available right now. Yeah, we don't really have the it has to be done automatically to like the new version as we build and push there automatically and we don't have that in place yet. Yeah, it's no problem but I love to help, but I would like to focus somewhere and not doing things twice or. Definitely, so I think if you if you have some ideas for the build scripts. That's a good place to start and contributions will be reviewed by the teams you can also tag me on on the on the PR and I'll comment or whatever. Okay, I do so question.  Okay, so there's 2 things that are going on in the chat right now and Charo and I so did I miss speak by saying that the code ready container was the secret piece was merged or what is the status. No, no, it's all good what what I was talking about was in answer to. This question about where the code was the if you want to build CRC yourself the the the biggest piece the hardest pieces the single node cluster that code has been merged and so it's just part of code ready. SNC now, and I added some documentation to the read me for anybody that wants to build their own SNC for okay D. The the CRC binary build itself is still in my GitHub. We've been having some conversations about a couple of the code changes the best way to to merge the okay D builds into the OCP builds. Alright, I didn't miss speak. No, it's all good. But I did see that it was in your repo so that's good. We're just we have to build them manually. So every time Vadim drops a release. I just do a new build for for CRC and post it. Once we get it merged with the code ready code. We're hoping to set up a CI system to do it automatically. And the other thing because we're getting towards the end of our and I keep talking about this and and it's I think I'm the bottleneck for the recipes and the cookbook stuff. I'm wondering if I set up a call on on Friday morning. If we could just hack on that and get something specced out this week so that we can we can shape something that's useful and and maybe how to add a recipe page so that people can start contributing to it. I'm not sure what your schedule looks like on on Friday. I'm technically on PTO this week. I just live you guys so much that. Welcome to the club Charo. I'm in the same boat. Okay, so. Yeah, so so perhaps not this Friday, but maybe Monday afternoon, my time. I'll try and look up maybe an hour, maybe two so we can just we can just hack on it. Because it is lingering one and, you know, I apologize everybody.  And contributing bits to maintainer bits to okd.io so other people can, can add in, but I think we do need to create a framework for it. And some how tos how to add and what the goals and purposes are, but if we get that done on Monday, I will whatever we come up with. We'll push out to the. To the mailing list for people to give us feedback on and get that done. That sounds good. Sounds like plan. I'm going to book you now and. Charo. Cooking, cooking school. So that will get that done hopefully and. Yeah, so I think that's really most of what we had to cover off today. Is there anything else that we missed? Was here looking at the agenda. The CRC is out the door. I mentioned the coupon off. And. Yeah, I think that's what. So I. I have one thing we're still not building containers for bare metal installed so bare metal IPI is still not possible with okd. I think it's yeah, a lot of people are hitting that because we don't really tell that anywhere. So a lot of people try that and fail. I think you were having a kind of a meeting or a session with the bare metal metal cubed folks. They're coming up to you. Yeah, so they are. Let me just I'll tell you when. And I'll see if I remember to ask them that question. I think it's this coming Monday. Okay, because we really need their input. Yeah, for setting up the bills. For those images. It's not until the 19th of October. Okay, so let me rather than that, let's rather than waiting a month. Basically, let me see if I can reach out to pep and see if we can get him to come to the next call. Yeah, I pasted the link to the issue that my team had created again, and he picked all the all the folks there. I think a few times already. Yeah, if there's any we can kind of. Escalate that a little bit and get them to look at it. Yeah, I'll get that one on pretty much. I'm just going to peg pep Marl and see if I can get him to him to come or send somebody to do that. So I'll do that right now too. And anything else on your wish list, everybody. Man, I'm so glad I said we didn't we shouldn't block on this for a KDA because we would have been so screwed. Well, yeah. But then having trailing threads is never good. No, but this is bad. This is better than the alternative. But I'm not even 100% sure why they have to use the rel images there instead of just ubi. It may be some rpm repositories they using but some of the images don't even install any rpm so it's not really clear to me why they use those images. We are just doesn't know how to community. Yeah, if we could just use ubi images everywhere, we wouldn't have the problem. Yeah. They don't know how to community. Well, makes me really sad. Luckily we do right. Well, we're doing better. I think that's all we have for today. And Christy, I'll reach out to you because I have to get some power Z on the menu for this next talk. So, and you're now at red hat. You have a red hat email does that mean you're also in G chat Christy. I am. Yes. Oh, man. Wait, wait, she was. Now. No, I'm both. Oh, no. I know one like me. And red. Oh, no. So that means you're purple. You need to have one of those. It has like the red hat IBM like fusion right through with the colors and the logos. Yeah. We should make those. Yes, I think I think we're going to. We talked about that when we talked about it. About getting purple-ish stuff, but someone who pot it. So, well, they're, they're not fun people. So do it anyway. So, cool. Well, Christy, it's great to see you and to have the power Z folks represented and also to just have more folks here. And I already ping pep for you Christian and I will book you. Charo for a couple of hours on Monday. So. Make your dinner and come to it. Because I think you're on East Coast time. So it might be. Yes. Yes, I am. Lucky Charo. Charo. And then, you know, once we figure out a little game plan, we'll just, I'll just open it up. What I'd really like to do is have a few more people. Outside of red hat, even working like. Joseph has done some work for me on the, okay. D. I also site and make other people able to. And you and I still need to work on some of those fedora magazine posts for. As we get everything rolled out. Yeah. Diane. Yeah. Well, now that we have the code ready containers thing. Assuming we can get that all validated out. We can just put all of that together in one nice blog post. Yeah. And maybe, yeah, yeah, that might be the way to do it. So, cool. All right. Thank you all. And we will conjoin again in two weeks time.  If you're inside of red hat and in the black channels. Elsewise. Oh, cool. Thanks for everybody. Okay. Thank you. Bye everybody. Bye.


So we're here at the CES 2019. Hi. Hi, I'm Chris Bignol from Planet Computers and this is Janko. Hi, you've seen me before. So this is a big next step right here. You're showing a screen. Yes, so we're showing the the outside screen of the Cosmo communicator. So this is what we're showing at CES. It's our Cosmo communicator outside. This is the AMOLED screen, so you'll see very nice contrast. It's a kind of 2x1 screen and showing you a part of the demo of the user interface of the Cosmo. This is really advanced user interface. There's a lot of things happening already. Yes, so we're happy to be able to do that because we only signed the contract with the manufacturing in December. So to show this mountain, I think it's really nice to see some progress. But it's a mock-up UI, right? It's not functional yet. It's a mock-up but it's the real screen. So it's a real screen and you'll probably be seeing something very similar on the final product. You really think you can have all these kinds of functionalities working? Absolutely, absolutely. So can you illustrate what's going on? So the key part here, this is a call in progress. This is actually looking at recent calls. This is time. And then you can also look at things in the horizontal mode. So you can see this way, again the time. You can see the notifications coming in. Can you touch it on the notifications? You can scroll and touch the notifications and then you'll go to the appropriate message or something like this. And then you can do particular actions. And if you cannot do it on the outside screen, it will tell you to open up the device. And then you open it up? And then you can open it up. Do we have one which is... So it has all this in there? And this is still showing the old OS but it will be Android 9 on the Cosmo and all our lovely apps and our famous keyboards. So that's kind of... P70. So yeah, the processor is P70. It's the MediaTek processor 8 core. It's pretty fast. It's about 50% faster than the Gemini in terms of speed, performance. There's 128 gigabytes of storage and there is 6 gigabytes of RAM. Minimum. Yeah, so we're supporting Android 9, Sailfish and Linux and hopefully we'll have all of those available out of the box. So this is what we're offering. And how's the crowdfunding going? Yeah, the crowdfunding has been absolutely fantastic. I mean, right from the start of the launch of this product, it's been absolutely incredible. We zoomed straight through the $1 million mark. We're still looking to crowdfund more but I would like to say a huge thank you to everybody who has supported us so far. And please keep going to Indiegogo and searching for Cosmo communicator and keep supporting the product. So $1 million funding allows you to do this? Allows you to do all the manufacturing? So, you know, typically, you know, that roughly to start to make a phone, we probably need about $2 million. But don't forget the Gemini campaign has reached already $2.5 million. And with the Cosmo, we're already at over a million. So again, thank you for all the support. And, you know, we are counting on the support and I think, you know, things are progressing very well at the moment. So this will be right here, a fingerprint reader. So this is an answer button. So it will be like a toggle switch for answering the call, stopping the call. And in the middle, there is a fingerprint sensor under the glass. High-quality, high-good fingerprint scanner. Yeah, it's a fingerprint sensor. I don't know the specifics but basically I think it will be very good quality and basically will allow you to unlock the device. So even when you open it, you can unlock it. On this side or that side so you can have your finger this way or that way. It depends how you scan it in. But basically you can unlock it.   You're not giving out any information. You're just putting information in. So in here you see, you know. Can you use it as a selfie screen too? Yes, you can. You can use it as a selfie. And when open, you can use this button as a zoom. So that is kind of... And you're reaching here the CES. You're going to reach all kinds of distributors and partners around the world. So we're talking to our distributors. We're also meeting our Japanese distributor here. You know, in Japan we have quite a lot of interest and support. And now we're in the shops in Japan in a Yodabashi camera and big camera. So we're in the biggest shops in Japan. Akihabara Street. There is some of them are in Akihabara. That's absolutely true. One of the coolest things you can do in Akihabara Street is find a Gemini PDA today. And in the future it will be the Cosmo, right? I think it's very nice. It's very nice. It looks like we sold out now after we launched on the Emperor's birthday in Japan and we already sold out so we're shipping some more units to Japan. Nice. And the Japanese keyboard is great. They're very happy with the Japanese keyboard, right? Yes, so actually the keyboard was a US keyboard and a Japanese power supply. But we're also going to be having some other keyboard with Kana keyboard as well. And is it going to be a big challenge to have all kinds of APIs and stuff for this screen? What is the size of the screen? The screen is I think 520x240. So it's kind of like a 2x1, roughly 2x1 screen form factor. Actually it's quite high density for this kind of 2-inch AMOLED. But it's a custom display so this part is completely custom. I know there were some recent messages about it being Android Wear. It's going to be, obviously some functionality will be similar to Android Wear OS but it's going to be a custom implementation. It has to be custom? Is there no chance you could pull in something from Android Wear or pull in something maybe from the level OS, the open source? Yeah, definitely pulling in some things. But it will be a custom development, nothing out of the box. But yeah, probably reusing some components. And the design of this new device also allows for better antennas? Yes, because you see the, so if you look at the Gemini, I'll just pull up a Gemini. So you see the area, the plastic area was much smaller. Which is only the top and the bottom. Yeah, exactly. So here we have a lot more area to play with in terms of, so there's an additional antenna on the device. Stronger reception. The P70 has better radio. So there's better radio. So we'll have a support for the 600 frequency on T-Mobile which is a must in T-Mobile in the US. Does that mean the Gemini PDA is not so great in 4G here in the US? There are, so it's a newer modem on the Cosmo. And some frequencies, don't forget the X27 was designed already two and a half years ago. So there are some frequencies which have come in since then like the 600 megahertz frequency in the US. And of course this device will support it. So we're quite excited about that as well. But also in Europe you will get a stronger signal. There are three antennas, so that's a better signal. There's some technology that MediaTek has for using the best antenna reception. And we'll have three antennas now instead of two that were on the Gemini. Because the Gemini PDA I've been using it constantly for eight months, it's been fantastic. But as a phone this one will be better. Yeah, the modem is better and also the frequency management in the US will be better. Because you will have the screen and because maybe it will be, let's say, somehow more stable as a phone.  But the frequency support in the US will be better here. And also the frequency support in Japan because we're supporting bands like Band 19 will be better. So you were saying that if you reached a million dollars you were considering about the new CPU and that was a consideration about the P90, right? Well, we chose the P70 because the P90 really has been majoring in AI functionality. But we still think that the CPU power is more crucial for this type of device. So after evaluating it, including the costs and everything else, we decided that we're going to remain with the P70. So the P70 is actually more powerful than the P90? Okay, so the P70, if you're not using the AI processor or the GPU processor, the actual main course seemed to us to be more powerful. And also the Mali is preferable over the... Well, I think there's also, for the Mali, there's a lot more software. If it's directly supporting the GPU, there's more software support for it than the new GPU. Correct, so there might be some different levels of support for it. But there was no chance, no chance you could have gone to Qualcomm, right? You had to be media tech. No, we haven't planned to go to Qualcomm on this device. Because it's a whole new world to go and you already need to work with a designer and everything is media tech. It's a different matter having a different PCB with Qualcomm. But for this device, we are very much remaining on the media tech side. There might be, let's say, in the future, who knows. There might be a Qualcomm product from you in the future with Qualcomm. But then it would be good if Qualcomm come and help you, right? And I think we would be then looking to see what support we would get. Because we've invested a lot in the media tech relationship and also invested a lot. It goes both ways, you know, we've opened up the kernel, we've opened up the bootloader on the Gemini.  Kali has announced Linux support for the Gemini and we've, you know, they just did it all themselves. Whereas we've done some work on Debian and we've done some work with Sailfish. But let's say Kali has been a really independent development. And they were able to get GPU acceleration for the Linux? I think so, yes. And even though it's Mali. Because one of the reasons why people might think Qualcomm would be good for the Linux stuff is for the Freedreen. No, we have GPU acceleration on Debian, on Sailfish. And I think Kali has the GPU acceleration. Nice. All right. So do you think it's a good chance this could be more popular, more successful for you than the Gemini PDA? I think because of the outside screen. I think people who wanted a small pocket computer, I think the Gemini is a great machine. But people who want a phone device with a keyboard, sort of all around, all in one device with a good camera. It will probably be more popular because it's an all-round device with an integrated camera and an outside screen. So yes, we hope it will be more popular. Although the Gemini PDA and the Cosmo crowdfunding so far is very successful. You still need the perfect scenario. It's for you to sell many, many millions or big quantities all over the world and with many different carriers, many different, all this stuff, right? Yes. This is a better chance. Absolutely. So with this device, we hope to enter many more carriers and to enter many more markets. Because, you know, this is kind of our flagship device and we think it will be very popular.


Another explosion rocks Emo State as an oil refinery goes up in flames and Igbo groups warn that any attempts to deny Southeast Presidency will spell doom for Nigeria. Well, this is Plus Politics. I am Mary-Anna Combe. The Emo State Police Command has confirmed that there was a bomb blast at a flow station in the oil-producing community of Izombi in Oguta, local government area of the state. The incident was a suspected bomb attack on the oil facility. It was reported that the victims were the carriers of bombs which exploded when they were trying to enter the oil facility. This incident comes 12 days after several persons were feared killed when an explosion rocked an illegal crude oil refinery in the state. What's running us to discuss this is Public Policy Analyst, Dr. Law Merfo and a Political Analyst, Chaus, or two. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining us. Good evening. Thank you very much, Dr. Merfo. Let's start by asking the question that is on everybody's mind. What exactly is going on in Emo State? We've seen it's from one mishap to the other. We've seen people killing their own. We've even heard reports of a soldier that was killed. I mean, if it's not one thing, it's the other. And it leaves us with that question. So do you have an idea of what exactly is going on in Emo State? Well, I think one can only try to sort of put together the bits and pieces and make some sense out of it. There is no doubt that the governor of Emo State is not having it easy with some non-state actor groups there. And there are, you know, more parts for time now. And if you check what has happened in a more part of Emo State from about the year now, you can see that that is what I want to believe is escalating and assuming a more rightful dimensions. And in all that, all I see, as far as my senses can carry me, is a face-off, a battle between the non-state actors and the state actors there in Emo State. And they have, both sides have exchanged words and threats and each has tried to make a good threat. And the most recent dimension being added now is a bomb explosion. And which one may have to put as a part of what is already going on? And I think it is quite a factor, but because bombing of oil facilities in Emo State has not been part of the problem. So it's certainly a new one. So for me, I think it's the mishandling of the security situation in Emo State that has led to the escalation of it. I do not think that over-reliance on a kinetic approach to solving the security in Emo State is sufficient, adequate or even advisable. For me, I will always maintain a healthy and delicate balance between a kinetic and non-kinetic approaches in resolving the security situation. You find anywhere, not just in Emo State, anywhere at all. You don't just use force alone. There should be some ways of using back channels to deal with some of these things. We don't need to really know what we want in related peace so that people can go about their normal business. Okay. I like the fact that you're looking at strategies to bring some form of relative peace. But let's go to the root cause of the problem because this is why questions are begging to be answered. Before now, Emo State was not known to be this hotbed that it has become overnight. And for somebody who's from the South East, and in a situation where we are building up to an election, also in a climate where the South East is canvassing for an opportunity at the presidential seat, why do you think that Emo State is even facing this level of insecurity in the first instance? Is that a question for me? Yes. Yes, you said why... How did it start? Because... Yes. Why Emo State got into the security situation and found itself? Yes. I got into it in the first place. Yes. Yes. I got what I said. I think the over-reliance on, you know, kinetic approach. What I mean by kinetic approach is the use of force, you know, using force to try to obliterate, you know, the non-state actors and their activities. That's one level of it. And again, even before the face-off and the actual confrontation between the government of Emo State and the security apparatus in the States, and then the non-state actors, you'll find the IDOB, you'll find the security network. And now the non-government, you know, has also joined the mix. And then, you see, camps are known to have been established in Emo State, in Anabra State, where they were all around the United States, and indeed, in many parts of Nigeria. You know, if you ask, how did Emo get into this level of insecurity? It's because the government security forces didn't act preemptively. They didn't act when they should. They were there when non-state actors established camps in the forest. They established camps. They were training, arming themselves. They were able to grow to the point that they were able to confront the state actors and state structures. So they cannot be blame-less in things. If they nip it in the board, they would not be able to organize themselves, train themselves, build physical camps, armed themselves, and are not involved into the point that they can confront the army, the police, and everybody else. So, he's saying, and then the governor himself, he has not really tried out any aspect of peace. He's relying, essentially, on arrest and kill and all that. And the other side is fighting back, probably, to stay alive or to get even, because any of their members killed. They're trying to get even. And of course, if they get even on the other side, if you kill a policeman or a soldier, you don't expect the Nigerian military to keep quiet. You don't expect the police to keep quiet.  You know, violence is perpetrated by the inability of the state to really read and interpret the goings-on in a immune state. And indeed, in other parts of the United States, because an umbrella state is almost as hot as immune state as we speak. So it's not just a matter of immune state alone. What is happening in the immune state is because that is the one that drew your attention. Some very serious insecurity challenges have also sprung up in an umbrella state and in other places. So what I'm saying is the state security system, the state security apparatus, where we are today, where these non-state actors were setting up their shops, when they were setting up their camps, training and arming themselves, they didn't do their job. Now we have entered what you call damage control. But we are here facing it. We just have to confront it and deal with it. And to succeed, you need to use back channels. You need to combine kinetic and non-kinetic. Kinetic is use of us, which is already in place.  You don't need to do it in the open. Some of these things are done using back channels. What you want is a result. And that is the only thing that concerns and that makes sense to the citizens. They don't care how you achieve that result. Let me go to Charles. Charles, can you hear me? It's interesting how the lawyer has described the situation in the immune state. And of course he's talked about other parts of the Southeast. But let me ask you, do you think that there is a political aspect to the insecurity and the uprising, not just in Emostid, but of course in Anambra and the pockets of violence that the Southeast is facing today? Thank you very much. Re-echoing what my co-guests have said, the security situation or the insecurity in Emostid has a serious political dimension. I said this because I knew that the circumstances which the governor emerged, that is a governor who was a dimmer, was such that was spectacular that he needed more wisdom. Like he analyzed the use of kinetic force on the people behind or suspected to be behind the security. We will in a long time not achieve the desired result. And that is what is playing out. And I think there was enough caution to that effect that you must do more of that login. You must do more of engaging because there are a combination of forces like he pointed out, we started with threats from IPOB from there to now you have the issue of a non-gun move. Mr. Choo, can you hear me? I think we lost that connection with Mr. Choo. But let me come back to you, Mr. Mefal. So if we're all saying that this has some ties to the governor and you're saying that maybe there has to be back channels and dialoguing why is it so difficult for the state governor to have this conversation or probably ask what these people want because I'm guessing even the guys who are causing mayhem in the Northeast Boko Haram at some point had a cause. Although we do not know what the bandits want. But if there is room for a conversation to be had, why is it taking so long for these conversations to be had? How many lives have to be lost for this conversation to be had? You know, I believe that like I tried to establish earlier when the Facebook started, you've got reliance on the non-kinetics. That is very, very important. But I believe that both sides have made their point and it is time to try other methods. You know, more people do not need to die. And I also want to believe that IDOB is a security network. They also want peace. And I want to see what they are doing as a battle for survival. They want to stay alive. And I'm curious as to what battle to stay alive would mean killing other people. Because I remember at the beginning of all of this when the federal government and security agencies pointed fingers at IPOP and ESN, they came up clearly to say they were not responsible for this. But now down the line, we're seeing that the writing on the wall is that they are mostly behind some of these killings. Reportedly. So again, what kind of cause would they be fighting for if it means them killing their own brothers and sisters to make a point? What point are they trying to make? The issue is deeper than you are looking at it. From all indications, IPOP has a faction. And you hear Simon F. giving counter-outdown from Finland. And then Emma Powerful speaking for a broad-based IPOP countering him. That tells you that even when a part of IPOP says they are not responsible, the other party, they're being responsible. And in other words, you may make peace with one side that won't speak and the other side is going on. For example, the issue of a sit-atum every Monday. It has been countered, in fact, suspended by one arm of the IPOP. But the other arm led by Simon on a sit-atum. So that tells you that the IPOP has two factions. We just have to face a reality there. So talking with one side may not be enough. It looks like what happened in the case of Boko Haram. When Shakao was around, at the point Boko Haram broke into two. And Abawani was leading a faction. So Abawani was more disposed to discussions and negotiations and stuff. But Shakao never wanted that. So if you have a similar thing happening with the ITUB and ESN, you really have a big problem on your hands. So government will have to reach out and courageously confront what is going on. I see clearly the situation is manageable. And if Biafra is what they want, they need to be aligned to get the Biafra. And you can do Biafra agitation without adding arms to it. This has always been my position. And I also believe that what is fueling, providing oxygen for Biafra agitation is an exclusion of the marginalization. It has led to too many youths being funded and questioning the relevance of the Nigerian nation state to their own survivor. So if you look at it, if you look at it, you will discover that there is a way you can begin on this path. Today, I read that even Britain is trying to disallow in passing that has anything to do with the Biafra from entering Britain. That's a big problem. And they can escalate to the whole European Union.  So when they see those names, they know you are from that side. So if we are all paired with the same brush as Biafra agitators, members of IPOP, and therefore terrorists, you can see that it's going to be quite tragic. So everything has to be done. So we need to escalate what is going on at the moment. It is still possible. I still see some windows. Then there is also another emerging trend. Those who are in the mainstream of the ITU, Biafra agitation groups, leadership, it may be peaceful, may want things to be orderly and so on and so forth. But there are criminal elements that have actually taken a part of the struggle and I always ask that question. I mean, let's take, for example, when we were having the killer herders and Mieti Allah kept saying, well, it wasn't us. I always ask, you can tell who your members are and you can also tell who your members are not. So what do you do to make sure that you fish out these bad eggs? Because of course, there are always opportunities in the midst of every kind of agitation. What are the members of the other side of the IPOB or ESN who say that they're for a good cause? What are they doing to put an end to the other side, which is bad because this cannot be less for government alone or even the innocent people who are not armed. So how do you handle that? It's going to be tough because only a madman can confront a man with a gun. So if you are dealing with a part of the group that is armed, dealing with them because they're very dedicated. So even those who are Afro agitators who do not believe in the use of arms or violence cannot even speak out openly against them because they are like those who are sick. So a lot of problems are not on front end, they're sorry, not just in most cases alone and they all have to be on deck and need to see more action from the religious leaders and bishops. I want to see more action from Mohanese. I want to see more action from the Southeast Governance. The Southeast Governance have not shown any commitment to resolving the problem that is going on in the service. They have not done anything. I'm sorry to cut you. I'm sorry to cut you. I think we have Charles or two back. So let me just quickly go in his direction. Mr. Tui, if you can hear me. Let's look at the political angle to this particular situation. Like I said before, we lost that connection with you. We're in the thick of campaign season. We're in the thick of picking who would run for different political parties. There's zones who are agitating that the ticket come to them. What does this whole agitation? I had a conversation yesterday and I want to quickly play that audio. I had a conversation with somebody from the North, a political analyst. His name is Musa Idris. And he clearly stated that the Southeast is not ready to field any candidate. And he made mention of the fact that look at what is happening in the Southeast. It's not possible for you to have a candidate. And he also said that the Southeast is not sure what it wants. If it wants Biafra, it wants to stay in Nigeria, but that the onus lies on the Southusness and their leaders of thought. I'd like to hear your reaction to that. Unfortunately, we can't play you that video. Okay. Thank you very much. The, the, the question in your most book, like I said earlier, is has remained political. And that is because the governor of the state has not been able to address the core issue, which is to drop the use of force to initiate genuine dialogue. It is not easy to dialogue, but we could see that despite all that is happening in Anambra state, Professor Soludo, the new governor of Anambra has insisted in using so many non-conventional approaches, including the religious leader, the traditional institutions and all that, including good groups and organizations to, you know, first step is to say, look, you have to take back your state. We don't see that this kind of message is coming. On the 7th of and 8th of November, 2020, I remember I was part of a group. I was part of a training for traditional rulers in the most state at the very cultural center conducted by one, a Lambeca group. And in that seminar, which I was part of, many individuals, including Catholic priests, were invited, traditional rulers, security experts beyond even a certain to talk to the government and the people on the use of non-conventional approaches to, at that time, their security was not this high point. But it does appear that not much has gone on in terms of implementation or the recommendation of that particular security summit anymore. And the governor being more interested the way I read his body language in politics of 2023. And of course, relying more that the use of force, use of the military and all that could, so to get and bring calmness in the state, it has not helped the situation in the most state. Now, our fears to set down the fact that, look, these people have left the political class. They have left every other arm. They are now dealing with what is a threat to the national economic survival of Nigeria. They are not dealing with oil facilities. They are not dealing with things that has to do with our survival as a nation. I mean, this is a more threatened dimension, especially common in an election season. It calls for what it calls for concern. And my view would be, which is what I've been saying, the saddest governors led by the governor of the boy state has to really sit down again to redefine what they established as the Eastern security network. They, I mean, the Ebu Bagu security network. Ebu Bagu, yes. The Ebu Bagu security network was meant to be a regional security outfit like a motorcycle. But if we wash the way the different other three governors or four governors of the studies has been acting or behaving, it does appear that Ebu Bagu has only been operating in a boy and that I won't talk about it because what is he going to do in a boy? It is not going after their non-government. It's only going after political opponents. That is a story for another day. But it is time, like my colleagues say, for the saddest governors, if they really want to prove to the people that they can return peace to the 30s, it is time for them to come together again to redefine the modules and operations of Ebu Bagu because it is only in that kind of approach that we can begin to say, okay, whereas conventional security is failing, where kinetic use of force is failing, we can begin to rely on those who can know and understand better the language of some of these agitators. It is time for the Papis governor to bring together the people that are known, the people that have been passed down or have profiled at some point to be members of this agitative group. They need to bring them to a table with Hanez and Ebu, traditional laws of studies instruction and the leaders leaders to map and chart a way forward. Otherwise, going into the table for elections, more arms has been in the hands of people who should not have arms. And they drop for the saddest steps entirely. Well, I want to say thank you, gentlemen. Unfortunately, time is not our friend. Law Mefor is, he is a political analyst and he is a public policy analyst also and Chaucer too is a political analyst. Thank you very much, gentlemen. We will revisit this conversation as it develops. We'll take a quick break. Thank you all for staying with us. When we come back, the issues surrounding the Southeast presidency will be on the table right after this.


Back in the Davis Media Access Studio for another episode of The City Considerers, I'm Autumn Labé-Renaud and this month, February 2018, we are talking about the Downtown Plan Advisory Committee and my guests today are Rob Davis, who's the mayor of our Fairburg and Meg Arnold, who is serving as chair of the Downtown Plan Advisory Committee. Welcome to you both. Good to be here. Thank you. So this process that you're undertaking is going to span roughly two years and attempt to project out a couple of decades, no small feat. I'm really interested to learn more about what the process is and sort of what's driving it. And I believe, let's start with you, Rob, because I believe it came from part of the Council's resolutions or goals moving forward. Yeah. I mean, actually three years ago, Council started talking to staff about the need to update our broader city general plan. And nested within that was the idea of the core area itself, the downtown. And staff recommended that we begin the process of updating our entire general plan with a revisioning of our downtown. Since that's the area where most change is likely throughout the city, there was a desire to understand how to achieve prior core area goals such as having more people live downtown, how to deal with retail and the Amazonization age that we're in. And so we decided at that point to focus our initial efforts on a visioning process for the core area of the downtown. The fact is that everything about business and how we move through the city and how the city itself is built, everything has changed since the major planning affecting the downtown was enacted all those years ago. Yes. Well, and right. If you look back at the prior plans, even way back is there was a real desire to see more people not just coming into the downtown, but making the downtown their home, recognizing that that's critical for vitality. We're not getting there. And so the question is, how do we take a comprehensive look at retail, at living, at all the elements that come around people being in that space 24 hours a day, security, all of those things in a comprehensive way so that we can plan moving forward about how to achieve the things that we've said we wanted to achieve for a fairly long time. So we have the need for that kind of information driving it. How is this going to play out? What have you taken on, Meg? Well, actually it's a fabulous process and it's a great challenge. And it's a really important one for the future of the city and the future of the type of community that we decide that we want to be collectively. So the downtown plan advisory committee that I chair is a fairly large group of about 19 individuals, some of whom were appointed representing specific other organizations in our city and some of whom were appointed at large. I was one of the at-large appointees directly by council. And we're embarking on a two-year, roughly two-year, 18-month to two-year process that will include an enormous amount of opportunity for public input and public comment. Obviously, as with any public process and particularly in a community like Davis, a really critical part of the outcomes that we're going to drive to and really inform them. The city also has engaged a number of consultants who are helping to manage, helping staff to manage the overall process and helping to make sure that the committee and the public input opportunities are as informed by data as possible. And these are not just process people. These are some of the leading experts in their fields of parking, downtown design, sustainability. I mean, we've got an amazing consulting team that's coming to work with our local group. I noticed how specific their expertise is. Yes, very, yeah. There's parking and there's transportation and their different experts. Historic structures, sustainability, water use, I mean, all of that, yeah. So this process, all the ways that people will have to kind of feed into it. Let's talk about some of those.  Sure. Because there's going to be a couple of those. There will be a couple of sustained charrette opportunities. So a charrette is a common practice word for essentially a public workshop, workshop with significant opportunity for public input and frankly, formed around the goal of significant public input. And there will be at least two series, two opportunities for a couple of days at a time, actually I think four days at a time, at two separate opportunities for a sustained public charrette process. The first of these will be in late March. The second of these will be further on into the process. So in addition to the charrettes, all of the meetings of the downtown plan advisory committee are public meetings. And so there's opportunity at each of those for public input and discussion. And as well, through the city's downtown plan website, there's an opportunity to sign up for regular updates on where the process is and in particular what public input opportunities are coming up. Let's give that URL now and we'll give it again at the end. But cityofdavis.org forward slash downtown plan. Exactly. I'll get you there. Yeah. Okay. So you had a public workshop on last Thursday. Yeah, just about a week ago. Any early takeaways, anything you can share from that? Well, Rob mentioned in his comments a minute ago the appreciation for the long-term impact of these plans. And in fact, one of the consultants in his remarks to the committee and to the public who were there was about the 1961 plan. And some of the impacts that we still see today on downtown from that plan, which happened many, many years ago, possibly even before I was born. And so I think it was very sobering to the folks in the committee. What I took from that was very sobering. Not just that we're planning for this 20 year looking forward period, which is daunting enough. But that what we as a city end up deciding as part of this process could stretch with impacts far beyond that 20 year period. And another one of my own personal big takeaways from the session last week and some of the materials that have been made available is just the magnitude of changes in society and the way society is working or is going to be working in the future. You mentioned the Amazon, I can't say it that way. Amazonization. Amazonization. Of retail. Of retail. And so you look at what's happening to retail, not just in our downtown, but nationally, and then you think as well on a completely slightly, completely different realm about personal transportation and public transportation and the likelihood of autonomous vehicles. And what that means for parking and the demand for parking. Not in the next five to seven years perhaps, but certainly in the later years of this 20 year planning period. And so looking into the future at any point in time is really hard. But looking into the future in this particular set of years, I think- With so much change on the horizon. Carries a lot of challenges. Yeah, I agree with that. And that can be daunting, right? Because how do we plan for the short to medium term, given what we know is coming later? But I think what we're trying to do is set a table, right? That's flexible enough, but really does drive towards the goals. I think one of the things that really grabs me about this process that I think may be different than other ones that we've had is that we're taking a much harder look at the economics of the downtown. The city had the redevelopment agency for almost a generation, and it's gone now. So the incentives that could come from the resources that generated are gone. At the same time, we recognize one of the key messages is we have a lot of small plots in the downtown. And we have a lot of areas that are difficult to imagine how to redevelop in the dense way that we think is necessary to bring people down there. This process will bring expertise to the table to talk about, really, what's it going to take to get there? And I know there's skepticism. Even some of the members of the committee are saying, how do we get there in an economic and financial sense? We have to take a hard look at that, because we can aspire to a lot of things, but it's got to be grounded in the reality of what's possible for investors and for people that are going to be willing to take the risks to drive the change based on their ownership of property or their desire to redevelop it. How will the university feed into this process, too? Do they have a stakeholder seat on this? Yes, we have a university representation. Because obviously the UC Davis students represent a large portion of the number of people who use the downtown and even who would maybe be inclined to live there. And when you talk about densification, I assume you're talking about work, living space, retail below. Yeah, multi, let's call it mixed use, not necessarily all work, live work, which we have in the Chen building. I'm not so sure I agree that the students will be there. I think the demographic that's primed to move into the downtown is my generation. It's people who are empty nesters and who are looking to downsize and want that walkability, bikeability in a confined space close to transit, close to long distance transportation, which we have the train. I hear over and over, these are the people who want to live there. There is simply no supply. And so I think around the periphery we'll continue to have students. And certainly there's a stake that the university has. But I think the people that are going to populate massively the downtown over the next 30 years are people who can live in smaller spaces. And yet, quite frankly, afford something that is probably going to be priced at a premium. Because this is very, I mean, it's a very limited space. And there's only so high that we're gonna be able to go even if we talk about densification. One of my takeaways from reading through the materials for this is that this is not a little tweak here or there. This is pretty much a wholesale revisioning of how we utilize our downtown and how it can work for us. I think it could end up as a wholesale revisioning. I think the scope is there to have it become that. If that's what we hear through the process would be appropriate. I don't think it's necessarily a foregone conclusion. No, but the potential for it is there. But the opportunity is there to consider something as broad as that. So for anyone watching, their way to have their impact on that is to participate in one of these planning processes. Well, the nice thing about the planning processes and why I hope people will participate is there will be people there with reality checks. I mean, these experts have seen a lot. They've been to a lot of communities. They understand that while Davis is special, Davis is not unique. And so they're able to kind of ground the conversation in reality while giving people the opportunity to think big and to dream a little bit. But they're solid in their experience and being able to say, let's think about the potential there. And that's what I'm really excited about is that we've really multiplied the level and depth of expertise that we have to help ground the conversation in what's real in a short and longer term. And benefit from what other communities have done, learn from them. And that I'm really excited about. And I hope people will come because they'll get solid answer to their questions. They'll get good feedback on their ideas. And it'll really help the committee to digest and propose to the council a way forward. So in terms of the next times to plug in, you mentioned one in March coming up. And the week before Davis Joint Unified spring break. Well, let's all pack it in at once. Well, at least it's not the week of. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Which also happens to be the week before UC Davis spring break. Yes. Which is useful because students will still be around and in town. And to your point about UC Davis involvement, we do have a representative on the committee. But it would be wonderful to see greater UC Davis student involvement in the rest of the public process as well. Right, because it's not just the living downtown. It's sort of how they, the coffee shops, how they commute downtown, where they park, do they ride bikes, all of that, where they eat. Is there food available at 2 AM? Nothing that came out is the arrangement of public spaces. Interestingly, we view our downtown as having that large green park. But there's opportunity for more green spaces in the downtown. There is the transit hub. We want to create a greater sense of a true hub for transit. Well, that's going to bring many more people in and through the downtown, including students. So I'm not sure how we reach them and encourage them to participate, but they're clearly important stakeholders. And it was even remarked at the public meeting that on the committee itself, there aren't any students, which is not unusual for Davis. Stepping up and volunteering, it's a big commitment. But we really want, and there were students at the workshop, and we hope that there will be more. And the good news is there are a couple of professors who are on the committee who can encourage students to come as well. Great. What else would you like to know? We're down to about our last minute. What else would you like the viewers to know right now? I think we could maybe repeat the URL for the website. Okay, that was cityofdavis.org forward slash downtown plan. And again, we've been talking about the downtown plan advisory committee and the work that's going to unfold over the next 18 months to two years, taking a look at our downtown and the many ways in which it's used and serves our community. I want to thank our mayor, Rob Davis, for coming back. I think this is your third time on The City Considerers. We're always happy to have you and Meg. Thanks for doing your first gig here. Good to be here. All right, thanks for tuning in. You've been watching The City Considerers here on Davis Media Access. Catch it online at dctv.davismedia.org. And it'll air Tuesdays at 6.15 on Channel 15, Comcast Davis. Thanks.