Hello everybody, I want to welcome everybody to the octagon here or Thunderdome or whatever you want to call it, but this is a great, great setting for a really great topic and a very important topic. My name is Randall Lane. I'm the editor of Forbes Magazine and somebody believes very strongly in the topic that we're talking about today, which is creating profit through purpose. About eight weeks ago, Forbes published a new list, the Just 100 list, which was a ranking of companies not ranked by the usual metrics, whether it be sales or profits or market cap, but by what they're doing to make the world a better place. It got a huge reaction. We're going to keep it. We're partners on that project with a new nonprofit, Just Capital, which is full of school drama on the board of, and that's driven by Paul Tudor Jones, the hedge fund executive chair of the Robin Hood Foundation, who very strongly has talked about the idea that if capitalism and free market entrepreneurship does not start policing itself in terms of making sure it makes a world a better place in the system, that benefits all of us to start to erode. And we heard Ray Dalio yesterday here at WEF at Davos talk about that. So that's what we're going to talk about. There are institutional hurdles. There are market hurdles to this. But it's really the premise of this talk today is not should, but how we do this. And so that's what we're going to spend the next hour talking about. We want to make this, obviously, we're set up like a conversation. We're going to have a conversation up here, but we really want to involve everybody given this really, really cool room. So we're going to later on go to the audience for questions. We're also going to ask the wider audience out there. We have a live stream. If you tweet to me my name at Randall Lane or in the room also, we will bring you into the conversation as well. So the whole world is here for this conversation. We're going to kick off. Maybe I'll have each of us talk maybe real briefly, maybe two minutes about thoughts on this and thoughts on that idea of how we overcome the hurdles and what each of your organizations is doing to do that. But maybe we'll go clockwise. We are in Switzerland. We'll start with Mr. David Taylor, chairman and CEO of one of the great companies of the world, Procter & Gamble. First, thank you. This is a topic that is natural to P&G because it's part of our purpose. And if I go back from when I first started with the company, the whole idea of touching and improving consumers' lives through products that provide great value is built into the company. And because of that, to me, much of what follows is part of who we are. And once you have a purpose that's aligned with doing the right thing, the next was making a strategy choice on what are the few areas we really wanted to make a difference. And so areas like gender equality, diversity inclusion, environmental and social sustainability became things that are part of how we work. And later I'll give some examples on many of the brands. As they think about going out and connecting with consumers and communicating their message, we believe you can do that in a way to have a meaningful societal impact. And we've got a brand voice that really can touch many, many people around the world. Our brands are present in over 100 countries around the world. And we've made the choice that we want to use our voice in a way that builds the brand. To the extent we do that well, we can have a bigger impact on society. And there's some great examples, like Always Like a Girl and some of the work we've done on Pampers, which I'll talk later in this event this week, that show that brands focused on making a difference while building the brand. It's a both sustainable, economically sustainable approach and it's one that makes a difference to both the shareholders and the very stakeholders that we try to serve. Thank you. Next we have someone so well-known. He only goes by one name, which is Shandra, the CEO of Tata Consulting Services. Thank you. Good morning everyone. It's a pleasure to be here. It's a topic which is very close to me and to our group. I come from the Tata Group, which, more than 100 years ago, recognized the need for purpose in running business and our founder, the Tata family, donated 66% of the business to trusts which are involved in charitable work. And since then, the purpose of the group has always been to blow back what we get from the community in multiple times back to the community. And they've made huge impact in all walks of life, whether it is in education, whether it's in healthcare, whether it is in arts, whether it is in bringing up girls' children in India and fighting for their rights and so on and so forth. So we have grown up in that culture and today we continue the tradition in taking up issues which are more relevant today, whether it is gender equality or financial inclusion. If you take financial inclusion, more than 2 billion people in the world don't have access to proper financial system. And if you fix that, that's about 3 to 4 trillion dollars to the economy. And so we are championing many of those issues. We can talk more about that later. That's great. Thank you. All right. To my left, we have Mr. Mark Weinberger, Global Chairman and CEO of Earthen Young. Thank you, Randall. Great to be with all my panelists here today. I think it's a great topic and this keeps coming up in so many of the discussions we're having here at Davos. The way you teed it up, Randall, to me is right. If we didn't learn anything from many of these geopolitical events over the last year, whether it be Brexit or whether it be the election of the United States, whether it be the upheaval we're seeing across many parts of the world in various regions, is that business is better focused on something larger than just their bottom line. That they're, you know, to be successful, businesses today have a huge role to play. Government in some ways is lacking. They're not doing it, able to do as much as they used to and business has to step in and work with government. And I'm on other panels and we've talked about this in the past about the short-term thinking that's out there and looking quarterly to quarterly to try and manage your numbers as opposed to thinking about the larger, bigger picture and investing for the long run. And so increasingly, you know, we're involved in in many of the organizations you mentioned and looking at how as an organization we can contribute beyond shareholders, so to speak, and to our larger stakeholders, our communities, our employees. And, you know, you look at EY, we're 250,000 people in 157 countries. We hire 60,000 people a year and 75% of millennials, the median age is 29 years old. When I was putting our strategy together, the clearest thing that came back to me was I don't want to do good as well as do well. I want to do both. And if we don't speak to that generation, which is the future employment, then we're going to lose out. All we have is people. So when you look at what we came up with was building a better working world, talking less about what we do and talking more about the impact we can have with our employees, their families, the communities and the like. And as a result, our global people survey scores have gone through the roof, which is how we measure our employee engagement. There's a great correlation between profit and engagement of people and every study tells you that. So there's a bottom line benefit to business as well. So I think it's a win-win situation and these type of topics are incredibly important and I'm thrilled to be part of it. Next up, also on my left is Dr. Alex Zalane, who's the CEO of the Global Innovation Fund out of the UK. Thank you for coming. So I've come from a little bit of a different perspective than my fellow panelists here, that we do venture-style investing in fragile areas and often engage and find ourselves alongside corporations who are working in those countries as part of doing our work. And I think one thing I would say from our experience about combining profit and purposes and to be a little provocative, is forget about CSR. Some of the things that major corporations are so great at finding cost savings, solving big logistical problems, you know, driving to find efficiencies, are often thrown out the window in CSR projects that are small and suffer from pilotitis and that they never fail and they never scale. And instead, doing business good can be exactly much more impactful in fragile contexts than very well-meaning, but limited in impact CSR programs that live in the marketing department or something rather than embedded in the core of the business. Number two thing I would say and talk more about this is measurement. If you are saying that you're thinking about social value in addition to financial rates of return, then we really need to measure that social value so that you can make decisions on the basis of that. And being smart and thoughtful about how to get some of that information out of administrative data, not collecting a bunch of new information, can really help to see insights and make decisions that allow you to see how there are other opportunities for generating more social value here that I see from this data that helps me make better decisions. Great start. Thank you. And then finally, we have Hamdi Yulikaya, founder and CEO of Chobani, an American one of the great, you know, examples of the American dream alive and well and who's made a lot of headlines for a lot of work in this area, so we're glad to have you. Excellent. Thank you. Great to be here. You know, I grew up hating CEOs from small town and for this very reason. I grew up hating the business. I grew up hating the image that they created at the time. So when I started mine, something I tried to do is not to become someone that I hated before and a small town in upstate New York. Look, in this short beginning I would say what we have to do is we have to be real. We've been talking a lot, you know, we've been talking a lot all these years and where the world today is when it comes to income inequality, it's pretty awful. And we have tried everything, you know, from the political systems to dictatorship, to governments, whatever you can talk about. And a lot of people came and left. What we haven't tried is the power of the business and the CEOs and the entrepreneurs. What we are struggling in the world today is how do we make sure that everyone gets a fair share. And that starts from your own town, from your own headquarters with your own people. Before you save the fish in the ocean, you've got to save the people that works with you so you can reach out to the fish in the ocean. I'm not saying that's not important. But if I'm working on the topic of refugees and if my workers cannot make it to the end of the week with the income, I'm just checking a box, I'm not real. My solution was I've got to make everybody part of this success. So I end up giving 10% of the company a share to all my employees and make sure that their future is also tied into the success of the business and also reach out to the community first, the small towns in Upstate New York and in Idaho. Make sure that the community is also tied into these factories and these businesses and the also future is tied into this success that can be maintained going forward. I will say in the beginning, from my own experience, from the childhood being a farmer's boy to this place, we need an urgency right now when we look at the world. And in that urgency in the shoulder of the CEOs and business owners and the smart people that function in the world of business is to really get into this in a serious way. I'm not saying if it's a share or other ideas or whatever you can come to, is that how do we bring this gap between the rich and the poor? How do we bring that gap narrow? And if we give it to or acknowledge, I don't think it's a giving, acknowledge to this reality of the people that who works in our companies, it's not a disadvantage in the market place. It's a biggest advantage, as Mark said. It makes you faster, stronger, you know, more profitable, loyalty, I mean everything comes with it. It just needs to start and then get into this perfect place where it becomes a normal, not a big news that somebody does it. So Tata has been one of my, you know, companies I've been looking up to when I started this whole thing. But I'm hoping that when this amazing people gets into this place and talks about issues, this is really, really urgency because where I function and where I see it. So we're going to have an urgent conversation. I think, again, the consensus is emerging globally of the importance of this topic, but in the universal there's still people who don't agree. I've had many debates with somebody who's quite smart. Warren Buffett argues that it's his job to make money as efficiently as he can and not keep any of this in mind so that he can give it away as purely. So he wants to make it pure, he says, and give it away pure. So I want to ask this panel, why are you guys right and Warren Buffett wrong? David, you're used to hard questions. I like that setup. I think the idea, there's multiple ways you can make a difference. My view and certainly the way we try to operate is we can make a difference now and we don't want to wait. The need is urgent right now and the pressure on all of us to deliver the quarter of the year is very, very high. But if you figure out how to do both in some of the examples that I think I and others can give, say there's a real benefit to doing both to your employees, to the communities in which you operate, as well as many stakeholders. And if we look at, you know, whether it's the voice we have in advertising or whether it's empowering our employees to spend part of their time making a difference in their communities, it's a choice of whether you want to do it now or wait. And I don't think we can afford to wait. If the CEOs and the business leaders around the world choose to wait, then it's going to only get worse and to the point that Mark made, we've seen around the world a societal backlash toward big institutions, whether it's big business governments and to the extent we can step up now and say we accept the challenge that our brands, in the case of P&G, because we're a family of brands, we're going to grow the brand, but we're going to do it in a way where it touches people. The always example that I think is powerful, like a girl was a phrase that was an insult, we did a survey, and only 19% of the women and the girls thought it was a positive thing. We ran a campaign that featured and showed and empowered the girls, especially at the age of puberty. And after running the campaign, 75% of the girls thought it was positive. We ran an ad on Keep Playing like a girl in the Olympics. And it was one of the most popular ads, hundreds of millions of views. And you look at that and say it touched an important societal message. Given teenage girls' confidence is powerful. And the brand could just talk about its benefits or could do that and do it in a way that made a difference. And it goes, why not accept the challenge to make a difference now? And I think each of our brands, each of our businesses can choose to do that. And I think it's a higher level of responsibility, but I don't think we can accept waiting. I want to address this with three examples. I think there are two different paradigms. To say that one paradigm is superior and the other paradigm is not required, I think it would be a mistake. The first example I want to give is we are involved with an NGO. This is started by a woman who used to work for Goldman Sachs here and went to Yale and then she came back to India because she wanted to make a difference. And her dream is to create a school for girls' children from the slums and really, really, really the lower standard of the society. And give them the opportunity so that they can dream of going to the Ivy League schools. And you should visit that center.  You just couldn't believe. If you see their backgrounds and what they're able to do today and their aspiration, how each one of them described their future and she took them to White House last year. I mean, that's one track. The second track I want to say is if you look at what we've been able to do in Saudi Arabia, see TCS has 370,000 people globally. We do a lot of business in Middle East and we work in Saudi Arabia. The choice is for us to take that work and either whatever resources we can get in Middle East, we use those resources, take the remaining work back to India and do the work out of India. We said we work with the kingdom and then said we're going to open up a new ray of hope and opportunity for the women in Saudi Arabia. We have created a tech and operation center where we have about 1,000 Saudi women fully engaged in developing software. You visit that center. It's fascinating. Here the purpose plays a very, very important role. Yes, it's profitable. We could donate the other way and then we could donate the money. But if you just donate the money in CSR, the impact that you can make by opening up the center and create a hope, create a completely new set of possibility for all those women in Saudi Arabia. I tell you 15 years from now, this will be something that people will talk about. I want to hit this one. Let me just say this. If Warren Buffett said that, first of all, he is one of the premier individuals you can know. I know him and if we had more Hamdi al-Aqaias who were generating all this wealth and giving it away, we'd be in a great place. But this type of thinking is what's gotten us where we are today. To think that the wealthy should get wealthier and give the money away as opposed to empowering individuals to have meaningful lives and feel like they're contributing to their communities is I think what in some ways has gotten us in this income inequality. It's not just about giving. It's not just making and giving. I think what he's also talking about is the responsibility he has to shareholders which a lot of you have a pressure on to maximize return. But to this point, I just want to say the key here is if you have all these employees that we have and they feel like they're meaningfully contributing and meaningful, have a meaningful life, their family's benefit. And that's the way, we're going to ground up to do it. This issue that you're raising about quarterly earnings and looking at numbers, the problem is we have no other way to measure how well a company's doing today.  Well, let's bring the numbers in this because that's what we're trying to do with our just rankings. And we did, you know, in Just Capital and Paul's group, did probably the greatest survey ever and they surveyed 20,000, 30,000 Americans that said, what is it that makes a company good? And they suggested, here's what the numbers came back overwhelmingly. You know, how they treat the environment, sure, how the causes they could buy and sure. But about 50% of the weight in terms of the strength of the answers came down to how you treat your employees and how you pay your employees. Exactly. Yes. So that hits that note. So they say, basically, don't check the box. Don't say, you know, if this whole doing good is in the perspective on the watch, I'm not saying everybody's doing that way because I'm checking the box. Look how nice I am. You know, I'm doing things. I'm opening this. So basically, when you sit here and if somebody's in your company watching you talking right now and if he goes to his colleagues and say, oh, she, it's like that's just like a total piece of that. If that's what's happening, then you're not doing it right. It's just not right. If they're saying, if you comfortably sit here and say, this is truly what I believe, this is how we practice every single day. And before I start talking about it out there and doing things, I actually implemented these things in two years and three years and five years. And then you're saying, okay, you're right. So for a startup, money is always short. Always. Like you go from penny to penny. So my experience, I'm not trying to say, I've done this, this amazing, amazing. I'm just trying to say, this is really, really doable. The first thing is the wages that we paid, it was almost double when it was there before I started. It was a closed factory. So then same insurance that they have and I have the same profit sharing, bonuses and all that stuff. We put it in place. If you make the calculation, like a simple calculation and you say there's no way at this person, housing is cheap in here. It's not as expensive as somewhere else. There's no way somebody can make a good living with their families and kids with these type of wages. Even the wife works or the husband works at the same time. You double it. It's just, calculation doesn't work. How do you make it in the end of the day? So you end up, kids are not eating well or you don't have enough money to buy a car or rent a house or whatever. That same thing happens. So then from our experience from having a very limited resources not having large corporations a big print. So what happened in the five years? We ended up competing with the big guys. We passed them. But at the same time, we made it in a new way that... So you were paying better out of the gate? Right out of the gate, right from the beginning. What's interesting is you did it kind of backwards usually because in a startup, money's tight. So you use equity to incentivize people. What you did was pay them a salary and you actually wound up giving them equity after you succeeded. Exactly. So you didn't have to do that. Why did you do that? Because you just don't know if this is going to succeed. So if you do it right from the beginning, this, you know, in Silicon Valley it's the practice because you're high paying, you know, the engineers and all that stuff that you could pay less and then share the success. In my... I have no idea where this is going to go, if this is going to work or not. So if you say somebody, hey, you guys are going to be millionaires in five years from now. And if it's not true, it's not only my failure. I don't care for me, but how do I make hundreds of people relying on something that might not come and then in the end it will be bad?  And then you say, okay, now I feel good. Now we're all together. Now we can move it forward. And that was the plan. There could be other plans that, you know, can happen. But one thing I can tell you on the number side, this employee, your numbers that you came up with is so true, so true, and it's so disconnected. Those numbers, whatever that is, is a share, high wages or bonuses, whatever it is, will never, ever impact the profitability of the business in a negative way. Never. I don't care who says what. There are so many places that you can make that from the speed, profitability, waste, you know, innovation, all that stuff. And everybody says in the quarterly returns or yearly returns or a met meeting this and that stuff, but if anybody comes in because you paid your ordinary workers, employees and associates because you paid them higher or you gave them a little bit more, you missed it because of that purpose. That's true. So, Alex, you have $200 million under management. When we need to deploy money, do you find that's true? To a certain extent we do. But, you know, the issues are complex and I'll give you one example of how to think about that, which is the garment factories in Bangladesh, which are notorious in some ways for the treatment of workers or regulatory concerns there. But there's actually very strong macro economic evidence of the introduction of the garment factories in Bangladesh of having been utterly transformative for generations of women and girls. That you can see in economic data that parents make decisions to keep kids in school longer to delay child marriage because they're anticipating labor market opportunities for those girls and women. And not only for this impacts then not only girls who are of working age, but girls who are younger than that when parents are making decisions about what to do with them. Are wages in these Bangladesh factories low? Yes, by absolute standards and by relative standards. But has this been enormously transformative to people's lives? Yes, it has as well. And so it's complicated and complex to think about those trade-offs when you are, as in my position, trying to accelerate innovation in fragile contexts, in contexts like that while realizing and respecting the stories that you're telling. And yes, data backs that up as well that people's decisions about how motivated they are can easily compensate for innovative ideas at the margin. The truth of the spirit of Davos where we are having a conversation with the world so we're asking the world for questions and some questions are coming in through Twitter if anyone once again wants to tweet to my handle I will read the questions. I'm not checking my Instagram during this session. Let's make that clear. Ashley Bell is asking about kind of common traits and best practices for companies that do this with the kind of what putting a twist on that. Is there a global, I mean, is there a global standard for this or is it kind of market to market what makes a company doing the right thing? For me as a panellist, it starts with the belief from the leader that it's important and it has to be translated into something that's relevant locally. What we do in China looks different. We may work there with Hope Schools is something we've worked on for years. There's 200 Hope Schools we've helped fund because we felt that was a place we could make a difference. In each country it looks different but I think if it's not adopted from the top of the company and part of what the company believes is the way they'll be successful I will separately have people work that so I can have a nice press release. When it's built into the way you operate whether it's the social, the environmental sustainability to me it makes a huge difference and as you interact with a lot of other companies to the extent there's the interest, proactive interest in engaging with other stakeholders and Davos is an amazing forum. You can talk to many of the nonprofits that very much want companies to step up and say how do we work together to make a difference but I think it starts in the top but then it's got to be applied. Pivoting from the... Mark you deal with boards a lot. How much of this is at the board level and how do you get... Even if you have a CEO who believes this how do you get the board to either buy in or lead? It's a great question. First of all it is the culture. You either have the culture or you don't. You can't just use metrics to drive an organization or you can't just use speeches to drive an organization. Alex you said it early on. You said you have to have some way to measure and I couldn't agree more. You have to build this through organization. So for example the only thing I'll go in every year call all of our 29 regional managing partners or leaders around the world about is their global people survey results. Because we have a correlation that we figured out with data analytics that the more proud people are worked at EY the more they feel like they understand the direction they're going as an organization and their role in it the more long term high quality in profit you have. So that's a measure of metrics that we have. And the problem is to your point outside the organization when I tell at the end of the year the newspapers, I'm not going to mention any in particular how our revenues are I tell them how many people we hire how many training hours we've done how many community service projects we've done how our people feel and engage how many more people we hire the only thing we report is the numbers. And so till we have something external other than just pure financial the index is that you're talking about with an index to measure something other than financial results until you have that everybody falls back on the quantitative numbers. So I think we really have to work together to develop that. It's not it's not that this is not practiced in let's say I'm talking about from the U.S. perspective and if you go before 60's and 70's maybe 70's and 60's you go to these towns, these businesses that started they have practiced this you know all these mid-west classic companies and some of them are still going on so one example I have is my cup supply for yogurt is called Fabrikal and this is a company out of Kalamazoo in mid-west these guys nobody heard of them they can be the very competitive pricing when it comes to cup the customer relationships is amazing the delivery is unbelievable so you dive into it this is very employee-centered company it has an owner there's a CEO there's a family everybody works in this company most of the employees are in the factory it's getting most amazing wages like I have never heard of that before plus every single one of their child when it goes to university the tuition is paid by the company Harvard, wherever they go it doesn't matter my god I read in the newspapers all the time how amazing free lunches are all these technology companies because that's the news you could go and eat anything and here it is this amazing company you're working in this thermo-forming machine right in there whenever his son goes to Harvard or Yale or community college and by doing that he's securing his child's future not only his family's but also that's where we have to go that's the area that we must go because in the end if we don't do that what is going to happen to the world what's going to happen what else we're going to put walls we think the others that are coming in is doing this we're going to blame some other reasons and then we're going to the extreme we're not going to hear the real need of the people and then all the political promises are not going to fulfill this need it's not going to happen and then we will be more separated from what kind of world we're going to have for our children so we need to go back a little bit and we need to be more conscious we need to be more ethics we need to focus on not to have more but really do more this platform is a vehicle and just like Mark said we have to get our shareholders or partners and whoever they are to get into this understanding that it's not only you all this is better the examples are out there we have seen factories closing closing closing closing all these towns for the cost reasons and going to areas that you mentioned as they come back because there was a lesson learned and they're coming back what kind of platform we're going to build now and how is that going to affect the people going forward in 50 years so I really the greatest examples are in these small companies some of them are large small companies that do it every single day with their employees and I think from your survey what you say we must start from your our own backyard we must start from our own community before we go out and speak about it too much everybody here is a popular brand what's interesting is there any time any time you pick a cause there are people who maybe will disagree no matter how universal it might be such as whether it's supporting girls whether it's refugees you had a smear campaign against you even though what you're doing there is incredibly noble and objectively just how do you navigate that again quickly on that one opposite New York there's 300 refugees working in there from 19 different countries and if I didn't give a job opportunity to the locals right there before I get the other settled refugees from 30 miles away it just doesn't make any sense but if you take care of that and then you reach out to the people who cannot have a job because they don't have language they don't have cars and you provide them and you make sure that they equally and you make sure that it's not going to this unethical area the first cherishing people are the people in your company they applaud first and then the rest they can criticize you they can do this they can do that it doesn't matter because in the house I'm in peace everybody says I've done the right thing and then that peace will grow we did the same thing in Twin Falls so what happened unemployment in our area went down dramatically after 20 years in Twin Falls right now is under 3 economic impact of the plant in Twin Falls is about 3.2 billion dollars every year milk prices when our farmers start coming back houses start being purchased I mean the impact is going on and then 600 refugees who went through the horrible experience lost family members went through horrible journeys and then settled in somewhere and now working with the community in the community with the people shoulder to shoulder making some products and building lives and being part of the society this is the impact of the business this is the true impact of the business and this is something that you can go home and sleep and you say you know what that was awesome that was cool and what else I can do you know that Alex any backlash from the government the citizens of the governments of the money you manage well you know we've sometimes faced very interesting data challenges so we manage government money so bilateral aid agencies have given us as an independent entity money to invest is more venture style investing in fragile contexts and take on more risk than might otherwise be possible for our government partners and recently for example we did a debt investment with Nigerian entrepreneurs actually half American half Nigerian went back home to start an agricultural company in northern Nigeria probably one of the hardest places in the world to be doing business right now and we made a subordinate debt loan in local currency to their company so that they could access dollar denominated debt from DFI's at the same time and this is a for profit company he's making money by working with small holder farmers in northern Nigeria but he's had a terrible time accessing capital in Nigeria and even from banks that supposedly have a development mandate themselves so this kind of partnership of entities like ours that really are supposed to take on lots of risk on purpose with others who can have a different tolerance for risk can actually I think open up some interesting spaces for business that intends to make money and to do a lot of good now will my bilateral aid agency partners really live up to their commitment to a risk profile like a venture fund should have meaning one thing does great and nine things fail time will tell for us but I do think it's an example of also even very risk averse agencies within government saying actually we do need to think about new ways to support the private sector in developing countries and analogy example you've given about different ways of thinking about how to do business in developed countries we have a full house and a lot of smart people here maybe we can see if anybody out there has any questions for our little dinner party here we've got one right up in the front you can identify yourself Gary Cohen from BD first thing I just want to mention is that the reallocation versus the redistribution of wealth and trade redistribution somebody makes a lot of money they give it away reallocation would be more equitable allocation of wealth within a workforce these are not opposing concepts this is an end also rather than either or and the reality is there has been a substantial increase in income among those that make the most and and and that has not been at all kept pace with real wages among working class people and there's a real question of whether this is sustainable and add to that that things like traditional pensions which were a social safety net for people are largely being eliminated at a time when the population is aging and will rely more on income later in life so I wonder if we're really taking this issue seriously enough and I would put that question as much as we're talking about it in your example at Chibani is outstanding literally outstanding you have to be congratulated for because it is the clear examples of the alternative and it's working for you so are we taking it seriously enough is it sustainable and I guess that's the question I think we need to do more here in my opinion So I think it's a fair point even if you take our company we are a large company and we were not listed for a long time when we went public in 2004 instead of giving options we gave stock grants we covered as many people as we could cover it was a one-time reward no strings attached so people asked us why are you doing this because you make a lot of money but you are not there's no golden handcuff and you're just giving next day morning they can sell it off but again we found that builds a lot of loyalty actually we didn't sell the people state and we didn't have to use the option instrument and ten years after the listing we wanted to reward employees again this time we said every employee in the company who has completed one year or more for every year of service we will give one month salary and we distributed $400 million and again it was a grant so the model does work because otherwise many times every time we give something how to tie it does that grant vest or is that all a front all a front second time we did it and this time we paid cash and we took a charge one-time charge $500 million and market understands it we just took a penal charge in one quarter and we were done with it so there are examples but I can't tell you definitively that that's the way to go we're going to try different models adding to your point there's also legal challenges in here so if you have more than 500 people you want to make the partner into your company you legally cannot do it unless you want to be like a public company and then you have to hire lawyers and you have to spend millions to be able to do this it's expensive so this is not accessible Mark will help you with that they did and they have very passionate people and they charge a lot so we can pay our people more so this is not accessible so if you're if you want to do it if any company wants to give their employees to the stakeholder in the company I'm going to encourage this way I'm going to give tax breaks not make it difficult make it easier make a strong need on this and we struggle with this to be able to do it for two years two years still not perfect because of this very reason not the cost side but the legal side so he's so right we really need to focus on this and make it easier make it approachable and also make it an example out of this is like when I grow up this was the type of a CEO or a business it's me me me how do I do this to the new CEO entrepreneur model when the young is growing up I want to be doing like this I want to do what he does or she does not this one so the old portfolio was this the new portfolio is this and those are the three things that I think it has to change I just want to have one thing to broaden your question out because this is something I've mentioned a lot of discussions have been at Davos I'm not asking the right questions and really dealing with these issues directly so I've been in more discussions around as I started out Brexit and Trump and all these issues when this situation about pay is one thing but about jobs it's going to get harder not easier because technology is the big issue and we don't acknowledge that so it's got to be trade it's got to be what somebody else did to me reality is in the United States for example manufacturing over the last 30 years has tripled and we're doing that same that triple amount of work with one-third of the workers re-anchoring is how you talked about earlier the worker is coming back to the United States why in Europe frankly you can't replace a robot with an individual because of labor laws so they're moving to the United States back they're putting robots in place they're becoming more innovative but they're doing the same amount of production or more with instead of 300 workers 10 and a bunch of robots or bots as they call them they can't help fix this issue because this displacement of workers is why they're being left out and left behind and it is going to get harder and we talk a lot about how technology is going to be great and it will be but that's the long term we've got to get to the long term but how do you fix it because you know nobody's arguing against better productivity but you're right there's displacement so what is the fix because you're not arguing let's be less productive well of course not that's what is the fix if people are fearful whether they're going to get the next paycheck or not this backlash is going to disrupt any business model whether it's global supply chains whether it's local communities or not and we're not talking as much about that as we are saying well it's me this environment's difficult I think part of the challenge is companies have to find a way to make whatever economic model they have sustainable and to the extent if you take productivity if we can find ways to have productivity the ability to invest in additional plants or additional capacity so that we can grow it's sustainable if it's a one year one time gain then it's not even to your point on wages one of the things that I go back and give credit to people many times before me was P&G instituted a profit sharing that's the same for a manufacturing employee as it is for an executive it's a certain percent of their salaries they're based on salary but the idea is everybody should share in it and what you have is very high retention and affiliation with the company so they find productivity but find ways then to retrain and apply that capability somewhere else we have tremendous capability in our plants and our sales force across the company and the challenge is not to make people the villain is to make people part of the hero to solve the issue and technology has been a big challenge for us because it does give us the opportunity but you can mechanize many repetitive tasks and we need to be thinking now and we are thinking now about what can take the place of that what can somebody do that's a higher level job and what kind of training and experiences do we need to give them now if we don't own that responsibility it's only going to get bigger there's also a lot of corporate cash sitting out there maybe some of that can be put to work people to work who else we'll get one back there good morning Ricardo Marino from Itaú, Brazil have a question for the panel basically advice for those both type CEOs that you mentioned that are not a strong believers in the cause in the purpose thing and are more into the shareholder value quantitative metrics and so on what advice would you give that is not either profit or purpose it's profit and purpose and to show and quantify that employees working with their heart and minds in those tasks, in those causes in those projects will produce and perform much better much higher, much happier than otherwise how can you prove that thank you so we have two people who deal with a lot of CEOs you know Shandra, Mark what do you guys tell your non-believer CEO clients I think the first of all we're not saying that we should do business without creating shareholder value if you don't create shareholder value no business is sustainable I mean it's only a question of time you'll end up winding the business someday we've got to get the business model right when you get the business model can you spend time defining the purpose that's what we're talking about I don't think it's either or how can we define sharpness around the purpose and we don't have to compromise on the profitability of the business and you say we are running the operation in Saudi Arabia it is not to say that do it at loss yes it's an investment it's a business case and you go to the business case but it serves a purpose and then you'd make money so you've got to create these examples on show that's the only way I would put it I could not agree more I think the question was asked exceptionally well but I am encouraged that's the purpose and we had a breakfast the other morning that was over subscribed and dealing with purpose and how you to Alex's point earlier which I can't underscore enough how important it is it can't be a talk track it has to be built into how you run your organization you have to measure it leaders you said before you have to ask about it so they know it's important now that we have more data and a lot of grant scores went up from external advertising we are now the third most preferred employee in the world after Google and Apple we didn't have this before we are not smarter than everyone else we tapped into the millennials understand this is what they want it's going to take time we have to go quicker sharing these stories we are all focusing on it how do you execute purpose we are helping us all get there it actually works the message I give is we have example many of us have example after example where in our world we can use our money to do price promotion we can do our money on Pampers to say every package gets a vaccination for neonatal tetanus 50,000 kids died last year for that over the last 10 years 19 countries it's been eliminated UNICEF tremendous work why would you want to do a promotion that's given a hello kitty doll way why not vaccinate a child somewhere around the world that makes a difference our employees feel great about it the partners we work with feel great about it it is good business the topic is real you can make money in a way that makes other people benefit as well and if you own that as part of the core of how you do work then I think it happens time and time again and all of us have examples and hope it's a good strategy to build business and to me if it fits in with your ethos then you've got the match if somebody doesn't believe it I'm not sure I can give or anybody can give examples but there's so much data that says people want to work for companies that are trying to make a difference they want to work for managers that care about them their family and the people that they touch not only does the data show it but it's increasing I mean we see really and what we see loud and clear it's millennials but it's more than that because Gen Z is coming behind them and they feel even stronger about this but survey after survey I was actually talking with one of our fourths that are in their 30 yesterday here at Davos, Katherine Mincher from the Muse she actually put it, she says I have three P's in terms of what millennials are looking for when they go choose an employer people the people they work with they have what's my trajectory and purpose so she said three P's what I noticed one of the three P's was not pay I guess it's good news but I think that's underlying all of that but purpose that's taken for granted managers are actually looking for investors too that are aligned with them on mission when we started taking equity positions ourselves we at first were hesitant to take board seats and we're hoping that we could sort of piggyback on other impact investors and we found that because of our commitment to social value first that entrepreneurs wanted us to be on their boards and be a voice for counterbalancing and continuing a dialogue around these tradeoffs between purpose and profit and seeking that middle way of as you say where you both making purpose and finding a path forward so I do think boards can be really important in this but I think there's a lot of difference amongst entrepreneurs for that dialogue the adjustment to this this profit purpose social entrepreneurship all business with purpose look this is very simple there are some models hasn't been proven that it was going to sustain going forward and you can name them this and this but one thing would be sure just like you said it's business it has to stay business it's business you're creating value for the shareholders whoever your shareholders are and then the question is how do you do it is that comes in so what's beautiful about business competition innovation leadership all that stuff is awesome you don't need to change those things these are great there's nothing wrong with practice of business there's nothing wrong with competing I have competed every single day I hate my competitor and that's normal because we don't want to do business the question is how realistically you add into this purpose into there because what is going on in here because the consumer is looking for a purpose okay I'm going to do this and he says authenticity it is extremely important if your purpose is say hey I'm looking for my purpose then it's a purpose then you look for your purpose and whatever that is I say to the young entrepreneurs that are coming up is I'm going to do this differently than it's been done before I still want to practice all the business practices I still want to do all that stuff I still am going to fire people hire people promote people innovate change label do advertising all that kind of stuff compete but while I'm doing it I have red lines that I'm never going to cross one and I have things that I like to accomplish while I'm doing it and if you put that into this here every day what you do is making a cup of yogurt or you have your your customers whatever that is that has to be the most efficient the most faster and all that kind of stuff every day what I do is I'm not saying thinking about purpose every single day that works that's in the work that's in the background it's in the data yeah that's not before I left yesterday I'm just going to give you this example because I normally never talk about these things but it's extremely important that how we can implement to the every day my assistant comes and says you told me a couple of weeks ago you were supposed to call this lady I said yeah forget let's call it and this was before I came here she lives in in southern state in Kentucky said housewife and tiny town she brought a ladder and she put a picture in there seven kids and they had instrumenters in their hands one had a violin one had the other one and she brought the ladder she said look this amazing lady from New York City came down here teaching our kids how to play music classical music and these instruments are extremely expensive and we had 18 kids are doing this they're 7 to 10 years old and we want to put it to the 60 because they're all excited the whole town is going into the classical music now and is there any way we can do something that's the question they ask when I returned the call my assistant wasn't shocked I wasn't shocked nobody would have been shocked in the company that somebody returned a Trabani to this lady the phone call now you're not responding every single calls that's not shock either but it was not a shock to call this so when you create something in there it's not even out of ordinary it's just the practice that you do every single day when you throw your garbage in there then you're really purpose driven without even talking about the purpose anymore it's just a way of life that you do well it speaks to authenticity it speaks to the authenticity of what Mark says so this is extremely important because people who's buying products because they think it's a purpose in there which some of them are completely true what I'm afraid of five years from now we're going to say all those things that the purpose driven companies that they put it under they put it into them the reality is not this the authenticity is not there then what is going to happen is going to make more damage than the good so we need to keep it simple very simple every day practice of the business and in the background I have a reason why I'm doing what I'm doing and then before you speak too much about it make sure that it's implemented in there so tomorrow you don't shock your own everybody else because that's a fear I have that we're going too far on communicating this than the practicing it I think also that the idea of bringing that authenticity all the way down to the consumer level so that they feel it so it's not and things like that there's a ripple effect because they tell 100 people about this actually how many knows this last time I saw my girl I coach softball I have a nine year old daughter her team is a chivalrous randomly our team is a chivani sponsored team and they eat a lot more chivani yogurt it works we have we have three minutes left maybe we could go around one thought that stuck with you from each panelist one thought that stuck with you from our conversation that maybe made you think differently well you know David you're on the biggest companies I can go to you first we'll go clockwise again you have to believe it and try to build it in for years and years many things we try to add because it's been asked from the external world and as we internalize it becomes authentic it's a real voice your employees react to your real voice and our company is built in and frankly we learn so much from others and if you're in the learning mode connecting with stakeholders there's a tremendous opportunity to connect with people to make a difference and it's great business I think the key message is it's culture and how do you build that culture in the day to day living of your leaders and managers as they try to go their business of their targets and come up with products and services whichever is the department of the company and how do they keep this in the back of their mind once it's there in the culture then like he says it's not like every day you kind of keep bragging about it it just is ingrained in the way you develop your new businesses, new business models I think that's the message I take away I would echo we've all talked about CEOs can't be more or less sticking and talking about what their special cause is more it is a business issue and it's good and good and leadership matters but you only have success from the bottom and it's spontaneous it's not an initiative, it's a culture I think there's no bright line between social entrepreneur capital S, capital E and entrepreneurs seeking to make profit and investors who want to be impact investors should really keep that in mind as should individuals thinking about wanting to have purpose in their work as they go forward we can find social value in many places and collectively drive change without worrying about what label a particular company or person wants to wear investing in your people investing in your community and meaning of it it will never be a disadvantage it's a great advantage I heard leadership I heard authenticity no lip service to CSR and urgency and pay your people well thank you for this great panel and thank you for being so patient such a great audience