Vibe on Today's Len Peralta will be played today by Rudy Mancuso Yeah, the part of Rudy Mancuso wouldn't be crazy if there was actually someone in our audience named Rudy Mancuso That probably is because Roger's the one that said the name. Yeah And he's like listen your depiction of Rudy Mancuso. He's not accurate You know Mancuso to me just has a very like a no-nonsense name like someone you don't want to screw it.  I'm really sorry I disappointed you Rudy. I I didn't have this but there was a science teacher It was a high school or was it in college that had the last name Mancuso and so it's just a very authoritative sounding name to me All right, so well It's just the three of us today, so I figure we ought to just get rolling. Yeah Yes kick off the holidays, let's kick a kick off the holidays right We have a brand new intro Just sent this week From someone here. He is ready Daily Tech news show is powered by its audience not outside organizations to find out how you can help power the show visit dailytechnewshow.com slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Friday December 23rd 2016 I'm Tom Merritt joining me today Roger Chang Producer of Daily Tech news show Darren kitchens got the day off as we headed to the holidays. How's it going Roger? It's going good. I need to put back the shared screen so people can see the stories Yes, we will put down and put back that shares Roger's doing double-duty. Okay, so be kind to him He's producing and hosting co-hosting, but thankfully we also have Len Peralta alongside to illustrate the show one last time Yes, the last time of the year we're doing this live. This is awesome It's I'm glad I'm glad to be here celebrating the holidays with DTNS and all the lovely Listeners and viewers out there if you haven't checked out Len Peralta store.com yet Go do it because not only does he have a year of full of great art From the Daily Tech news show that you can check out But also you've got a special poster that I do yeah got a special DTNS superfan poster You can get yourself drawn into it or you can order the generic one Which of course has Quanto the computer on it, which is pretty awesome Quanto is awesome. You can get your digital art sent immediately So if you're casting about right now for the last-minute present that you know won't make it in shipping get the digital art You can even print it out Makes it. All right. Let's get into the top stories For the first time consumer reports will not give an Apple laptop a recommended rating The consumer product testing organization said all three models of new MacBook Pros had highly inconsistent battery life Recent software updates didn't change the outcome of the test now Consumer reports doesn't do your standard benchmarking tests or playing video with an internet connection off or anything like that What they do is they surf ten webpages using the Safari browser over and over and over again with the screen on and then they compare So you get variant lives, but they should all you know mostly center around one particular number And they didn't they were as short as three hours on up to 12 hours. So They're saying we can't we can't put this on the recommended list It's a shame But you know what it's not surprising. I think I think a lot of the news stories that have trickled out regarding Apple and their direction toward the Toward the their desktop MacBook platforms have always been Kind of like well, you know, it's kind of an afterthought So maybe maybe the battery life isn't there because they fully haven't put in the resources that they have compared to the iPhone or other iOS devices that they have for a second there. I thought somebody popped in Show we I we don't have a ton of news. This might be a bit of a shorter show. We'll see Consumer reports calling Apple naughty, but calling Tesla nice announced that Tesla topped its annual owner satisfaction survey 91% of Tesla owners surveyed would buy another Tesla in the future And if you're wondering who was second and third Porsche and Audi took the number two spots fact I think Porsche was number one last year. So Tesla took it back over Yeah, it's very interesting because wasn't Tesla kind of on the consumer reports Not so nice list the last go-round where it had received Well, yeah earlier in the year they they they kind of downgraded them for customers at it or for for customer support not not the Tesla s but the new SUV version and Really, you know, okay, there's always been a lot of I wouldn't say controversy Oh, maybe controversy regarding consumer reports and how they get these ratings because all they essentially do is the issue out Verified owners of those automobiles a questionnaire And they you know through sampling they should be able to get a good Read on, you know reliability based on ownership and traditionally Japanese makes typically Toyota and Honda have Done the best So it's actually kind of neat to see Tesla there one being the first non-traditional automobile being fully electric Porsche Audi Not too surprising. I mean you are paying top dollar for those cars So you would expect the service to match especially with Audi and their recent diesel gate scandal Well, yeah, they're part of a lot of people don't think about that So, hmm, I you know, I wonder I think because a lot of these are the Hold on hold on Well, okay on the audio version you're not gonna notice this but I swear Santa Claus just popped in for a second I'm sorry Roger. You were saying. Oh, no, I was just saying that it's great. It's great for Tesla I really hope that they can be the the key brand that brings electric automobiles to the masses Doctors at Imperial College hospitals will soon start using an app called streams developed by alphabets deep mind to monitor patients To receive alerts on smartphones system takes information from blood tests and other regular measurements combined with patient records to determine When to alert a doctor streams as a result of a partnership that gave deep mind access to 1.6 million patient records And as I say this Jenny Josephson just comes out of nowhere and joins the show Jenny. What are you doing? I'm actually doing an Aaron sorkin walk-and-talk in the marketplace offices right now. Oh, very doing you an official walk-and-talk You've got the radio behind you. Here you go. Get ready for the show at 2 o'clock. Nice Disrupting to wish you guys a happy last live show of the year. Oh, thanks Jenny. That's awesome Pretty cool. And is this your last live show of the year you guys keep going no, sir Yeah, nothing stops marketplace Well, fantastic, I know you're probably in the middle of your work day still, huh? I have one more official thing to do for the day which is Listen to a piece and make sure it has no mistakes, but I can do that in the five minutes before air And so I thought I'd come hang out with you guys Well, thanks to all those who participated in our subreddit submit stories and vote on them at daily tech news show Reddit.com there's a little bit more news around today than those three stories But I wanted to get to a bunch of our viewer picks Today and if you you want more stories and you're not already subscribed to daily tech headlines Then go check out daily tech headlines comm because that's actually a huge way that you can find out What's going on every day if you're not subscribed already. So Jenny you're gonna hang out I'm gonna hang out awesome I'm going to go silent when I'm listening to a thing because I'll be listening to a thing gotcha Well, let's start with DJ Sakane. He sent in a pic That he wanted to make as a pick of the day Suggestions seemed relevant to one of our shows from earlier this week The app is called hyper track live and allows you to send your ETA to anyone through text email or your messaging app of choice The other party doesn't need to sign up for anything and they can view your progress on the web He says I use it all the time to let my not wife know when I'll be home. So it's kind of like glimpse I guess.  What are your plans? What do you do this this next coming week? Well, we have to decorate the house for Christmas, which we have not done yet. We are last-minute Johnny's Couple minutes left. Yeah but you know just hiding hiding our our dogs gifts from them and And then just hanging out all next week. I have a very big plans to play Final Fantasy 15 Rank up an overwatch. I have just so many very serious plans. Go. Yeah. It's good to have goals things to achieve Over the break. Yeah, and then of course we have CES right after the break is over The big show that the Super Bowl of technology Super Bowl So you'll be going to see and I take it Yes, and me and Bridget Carey will be hosting a show together Oh, fantastic fun It'll be one o'clock every day the show floor is open Which I believe is Thursday Friday and Saturday and we have some great guests We have with the CEO of Razor coming on we have a CEO of Hyperloop one and Aisha Tyler is gonna be joining us Let me tell you it's seen it has a fine tradition of CES live shows So you guys are gonna rock it. That's awesome. Thanks. Well, I'm gonna go I gotta decorate the house you guys So I'll see you guys later Later have a great break Merry Christmas Well, right then right as Ashley leaves Jenny look who also is joining Phil Shane as Has popped in he appears to have brick wall for his home You're just living the Brooklyn Christmas life over there It's very cozy Just tucked away in your coffee shop. How's it going man? Good, this is the the bean And the bean is the name of the coffee shop got it bean the bean like you know, you're being the bean Coffee bean and this is where I listen to DTMS every day. Oh Fantastic, so so this is this is comfortable for you to be having DTMS going on Yes, like we're it's it's talking to me It's coming out of the screen. Yeah, usually I'm sitting here writing titles like this Well, if you don't if you don't know Philip Shane, he's been on our our quarterly hangout sometimes He'll be on our Lister co-host show Coming up and he is a fine documentary filmmaker in his own right Thank you very much. Hi Jenny Jenny's trying to balance work life right now. I understand The real news must happen. So cool that what's what's your plans for the next coming week? I Am actually deep deep in the editing of a documentary right now that I have to submit to the Tribeca film festival on January 6 So I've got two weeks to do about four months worth of work. So man Just so beautiful. I can actually think back to many Christmases and many Yom Kippers That's the Jewish New Year where I have been working 2672 hours in a row The man never rests for you for America for a doing it for you America. Yes, exactly Fine edutainment or lots of coffee. Yes lots of coffee. Thanks to the bean. You're powered by the bean. It sounds like Yeah, in fact, I gotta tell you sitting here at the cafe Where I also do a lot of my work if I like to get out of the house I sit here and I'm working and the day gets long And I look at back and I'm on DTMS When to come and then that's my great break during the day. Oh cool It's a perfect timing like 430 around there Exactly 20 420 which it's your 420. I'm so sorry New York State that may also be part of Christmas break, you know, yeah, sure Well, we were just going through some picks from folks that that sent him in Adam Kilborn Was was raven about the fact that when his home theater died and he pulled out an old pioneer from downstairs He'd lost his remote. So he was using the Harmony Hub He says it's about 80 bucks It's a small device that sits in the entertainment cabinet smaller than an Apple TV and it controls everything In fact, even he could even control his lights if he got a smart bridge from Lutron He likes some of the higher-end universal remote functions of it And he can program one-touch activities like watch Apple TV and it turns on the television turns it to the proper input All of that he says and I always have my phone with me So using the app means I have one less remote control laying around so unless you lose your phone You don't lose the remote and even I think even if you do lose the phone You can still, you know, if you get a new phone and install the app and log in it keeps all your settings You know stuff like that is great. I mean just having you know, I don't have that many devices I have like maybe four or five, but the the each come with the remote and Eventually eventually one will get lost or shoved in between the cushions or something And it's just it's a pain in the ass to to fish it out and try to manipulate the TV while your kids scream And you're wanting more TV of their yeah, so speaking of TV or our nature. It's Jason. Oh, hey What are you doing here? Oh We know it's not Halloween. It's Christmas.  How's it going Jen? Hey, it's going well about you I I'm doing great. This is so fun. Everybody show it up. Ron Richards. Why is it Santa? I can't tell I'm just I'm just wrapping presents here. Oh, wow That hat looks so natural and normal on your I've been put to work by Santa. So, you know, I'm just doing my part Well, we've got the hosts of all about Android and Jason host tech news today Ron also hoots damn fine podcast, which if you're a fan of Twin Peaks, you haven't checked out.  Thank you. You should check it out, please So what are you? Oh, look rich truffelito just sneaked in as well He is the he helps write daily tech headlines He sometimes will fill in for me. So look for his voice next week on daily tech headlines. It's a very visible voice You might recognize him most as rich from lovely Cleveland Uh, and I have a confession since it's the holidays don't want to hold any secrets The last couple months I've been rich from north almost lovely north Olmstead Uh, and in fact left Cleveland. I'm right next door Confession though. Len. Len. What's the ruling on that? That's still Cleveland. That's still Cleveland. I mean, I'm in Cleveland even though Really rich and I are or more or less neighbors now. So Okay, so the ruling is you can still be rich from lovely Cleveland Well, I left and and all the sports team started winning. So I'm gonna stay away There you go. Yeah Jen Cutter, uh, what do what do you plans for the next couple next week or so? Oh, well, I am host sitting right now, which is why I have this lovely very ugly color wall behind me And uh tonight on february 23rd at 10 30 p.m I have a hockey game That I figure I will be the only one there for Well, then go in Well, we're trying to convince my goalie to come and we have a nurse on the team And I have to quote this amazing thing because my goalie's not feeling well So the nurse the actual legit nurse has told her Drug yourself asap To Tylenol cold and flu some Advil make yourself a Tom Collins of pills This seems like terrible medical advice. I don't even care the country your nurse Wait a minute. This is socialized medicine in Canada Yeah, I'm waiting for the doctor on our team to chime in. I'm pretty sure even the chiropractor is going to tell her Please don't do that Wait, so you wait, so she doesn't show up. Do you have to fill in his goalie? Yes, so I really really really want her to show off Or cannot have enough players so we forfeit and I can live with that because I'm going to do a stream of steep afterwards It'd be great for west coast people. Not so great for east coast Well, cool. It's actually sounds like you're gonna have a lot of fun one way or another. I hope so Absolutely, uh, well cool you guys. Thanks for all coming in and saying hey Oh, we have oh wait, chris the Chris chris the amateur traveler just showed up too. How's it going chris going very well? Thanks Hey, chris. I can only stay a minute. I think that's my name. You're right That's all right. Usually when we get this number of people in the hangout, uh, it crashes my computer and then you all have to care But no, it's let's not jinx it because it all seems to be working Yeah, so chris, uh, are you traveling for the uh for over the holidays? I am not. No, I'm not Oops, sorry. That's that's the alarm to tell me to come on the show So this is the one time during the year where you won't be traveling Right, right, right No, I don't travel all the time I I stay home quite a large portion of the time because somebody has to earn a living too But yeah, well, and you also have to do the show, you know, you can't be doing the show and traveling at the same time All right, right. Well rick steves does it He actually does all the show in a one month period in the summer. Really that explains clothes He just wears the same shirt the whole yeah, he like I'm not not to dig in him But he he rotates through like five things Well Shoes wait was was that was a canadian call for help nothing but feet Did you remember shawn shawn had the best shoes and yes, he did change them Uh possibly but he does speak to uh doing things in batch, you know, you could do daily tech news show all in january And then take the rest of the year off. I wish that were so Just say You know, you what we could do what's the what's the thing in grade school where you make with the four fingers and you do the kind of I don't know what you call that thing, but like we could do that with news and then we just associate it with whatever company Oh the fortune teller thing, right? Yeah So kind of like uh, you set top box from uber or apple When I was at each p. I wrote a random uh status report generator and no one actually Figured it out for a month until I finally confessed because I was convinced that people were not reading status reports So it had a grammar, you know helped helped fill in name a person here with fill in name a project here and uh You automated it actually worked it worked for a week It worked for a month and I finally had to confess because no one was ever going to know So it would have worked longer than that and what worked longer than that at least it was very frustrating How well it worked? When I was in high school. I wrote a program that uh created randomly generated EE Cummings poems And then in my English class I was in love with my English teacher and I thought I'm gonna really impress her and this was on the apple Three years. It was an apple to see whatever's a new thing and uh, so I presented an entire poem. I analyzed it I told the history of me.  I never got to write her black board again Reality you were ahead of the game because that's exactly where we're headed now Learning the singularity. Yeah There should be uh, you know, so there's a woot.com. What about woo.com where you basically outsource your romantic What do you call it basically wooing to someone to a third party and then just you know when it's done You're an up into the place You also have woo wu.com where you can outsource your rap And someone from the Wu Tang We'll write the rap for you. Yeah, absolutely Be like task rabbit Well, thank you guys all for going up showing up We have people knocking at the door to get in at the hangout Uh, and and so until someone leaves we can't let them in But I can't I don't I can't find it in the heart of me to kick out I got all this laughing to do so I'm gonna bounce so all right. Thank you again, Ron. See you Yeah, I will also leave happy happy holidays to everybody All the holidays being part of the show Helping us out. How many years has this been going on outside? This is three years now. Yeah, so we're headed into our fourth That's awesome. Amazing. Amazing. Uh, Jenny. Oh and Jason Howell by the way. I'm a big fan of yours as well And then I bought your drawings and it's hanging on my wall The one of the screen looking in the mirror Thank you. That's awesome. Oh my gosh. That's that's incredible. Thank you. All right 2017 rocks Thank you. I'm gonna bounce as well because you know tech news tech news isn't gonna write itself. Sure, especially today, right? It's already it's already proven itself to be the most complicated episode ever because you pretty much have to make up segments But uh, we'll get there. We'll figure that. All right. Thanks Jason. Howl. Thank you Go check out tech news today twitch.tv slash tnt Thank you, sir. Learn learned it all by watching you man. Oh stop. Happy holidays. Very Christmas. Happy to you very Christmas to everyone Love you guys. See you later Hold on Daren kitchen. I thought I thought you weren't on the show today. What are you doing there? It's friday, right? Isn't it friday? Yeah, but you said you couldn't make it No, no, no, I said I said I'd be like a little bit late. I I've got so enthralled in this book here What book are you reading? It's called a chronology of tech history. Oh, that thing's so outdated. You should I don't know. I don't know. It's got some interesting facts Like did you know that uh 61 years ago tomorrow after an advertising misprint the continental air defense command or Uh, conad started getting calls from children for Santa Claus You see the director of operations colonel harry shoop Had his staff then check the radar for signs of st. Nick and since 1958 when norad was created They've been keeping tabs on old santa claus ever since Yes, he's a wily one. They've been trying to shoot him down for the past 60 years No, I was looking for something to fill time on daily tech headlines tomorrow. Maybe I'll steal that We also got pete wells peter wells just popped in how's it going down there? I'm good mate. How you doing tom? I'm good man. Uh, happy holidays. Thanks for stopping by Hey, happy holidays to you too. Yeah, it's uh christmas eve here already. So Uh, really kicking into the spirit. We're just about to head off for our first christmas Lunch of the first of like a five-day christmas, uh festival this year When you have a little baby, you have to go to everywhere you go on the christmas tour, right? Yeah, yeah, well, that's it's fantastic And and to balance things out from new zealand paul spain has joined it at the same time who is also experiencing christmas eve Hey, how are we doing greetings from the other part of down under? Paul, why does new zealand look brighter than australia? Well, because the australians are a bit behind we're really at the forefront of the world and Yeah Australia's canada is talking a little smack right now Oh as a canadian i take issue i will defend new zealand thank you Oh, that's kind of cool. It's literally like almost okay for two other points to the Yeah You're like the sun almost never sets on daily tech news show right almost Uh, well, that's fantastic. So so so pete, what are you going to be doing? I after your five days? What are you going to be doing between now and ces? Uh, I really don't know i've got um I've been like avoiding phone calls from pr agencies for the last couple of days saying no I haven't looked at your invites yet. I don't know if i'm going to go visit your booth And so I don't know what to do like I learned I learned that one year because my phone If they don't reach you Like when pick up they'll just text you incessantly And it was literally obnoxious because I was missing important texts from like patrick norton or someone else To show up somewhere because I was getting all these Uh, karen, not karen thomas. She was the one that spammed my inbox But I was I was getting one from like, hey, would you like your names names?  Oh, okay. That's an agent.  You should check out this booth blah blah. Check out this booth. Oh, it's not on the floor You need to go to the high end. Oh, no, it's not here. You have to go to the mandalay bay Oh, it's not it's like no making ceo sound fantastic paul. Are you going? I'm not not. I bet you're glad now Well, it's uh, it's always crazy. I'm I'm still uh, bombarded with all the emails, uh, inviting me to things at ces though So I'm actually preparing to buy a new house. I've been looking at what technology should go into it and one of the emails was from It looks like a ring doorbell competitive called remobile So I was just having to look at that before I thought oh, this looks good Maybe I should I should try that out and then I got to the bit at the bottom that said They're only focusing on the us market for now. So Well, one of our picks from from people from mike who is a diamond episode boss was synope or synope. They have a an accent On the end. I don't know if that's available in new zealand But he's raving about it because the web interface connects to your network over ethernet Then to the cloud service connects to devices over rf and it was live wire Line voltage sorry line voltage for his thermostat and not every smart thermostat out there will do line voltage So he's pretty excited to find that Oh, that's cool I'll definitely have to look that up. You might yeah s i n o p e accent grove. Is that what that is? Anyway Wait, so is it a new build house? Are you looking just at houses houses like ones already built? Yeah, no it's an existing built house So, uh, we'd basically be looking at uh, what technologies can go into it so that it's uh, you know Techified up to up to an appropriate level One thing that robert heron convinced me of and if I ever find the money to do this is to basically run conduit So I can have In the house so I can run new Whatever cables I need to and patch them into the wall and not need to rely solely on uh wi-fi Which is kind of what i'm doing right now, although I did a do a pretty good job using a flat ethernet cable and Kind of fixing it to the to the crown molding and running it from one end of the house to the other just so I could have wired ethernet Oh, that's a good idea. Oh, yeah the flat ethernet cable though if you're getting more than 10 base t out of that I'm I'm super surprised. Yeah fair enough. I I am I I am actually pretty impressed 11 megabits uh, I No, no, no, I I definitely get more than that You know, you might want to try dropping some cat 6 uh end of the new place only because uh, we're just starting to see the first 2.5 gigabit consumer chips hit the market just saying It's uh, but definitely. I mean, what do they get? I don't remember. I bought it off amazon. It was like 30 bucks for 100 feet. Yeah Well, uh, roger. I don't know. Do we have anybody else knocking at the door? Are we let me see? I have Oh, peter. He's on mr. Anthropology. He's on uh, there's roger. Oh wait, that's me I'm here and he's on here. Len's still here. I'm still here Meg. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on. What's this person? Oh, that's chris Uh, Megan says she might not be uh might not be able to make it. Oh, okay. Yeah Well, she's probably working with jason. I'm getting ready for their show And jenny's working on her show, but she was able to show up What kind of place do you work at jenny? Seriously? We're gonna place the tapes at two o'clock She's like in like literally three minutes stop stop calling me out Guys in three minutes, I can totally talk In the meantime, I'm gonna take off and oh, okay. Thank you. Jen go bring stuff to my goalie and make sure she shows up Yeah, yeah, have a good game Thank you everyone traveling on the holidays. Please be safe and try not to snap at fellow travelers. I know it's hard Yeah, that's a good. That's a good thought. Thanks again, jen for for everything. My pleasure. Take care. All right, Merry Christmas And I believe I will bounce as well. Ah, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for dropping in rich Absolutely and make sure you stay tuned for daily tech headlines, uh all next week. Yeah, it's an all rich week Don't miss it rich week or you know rich media right? Yeah, it's gonna be some fantastic tech news. Let me tell you that She might be rich All right, bye guys. Happy holidays. Happy holidays, rich Hi, I'm gonna pop off us. Oh, I'll duck you out too. Yeah. All right. Uh, who wants to say goodbye first? I'm just gonna say, uh, you know, it's a pleasure. I'll see you next year and uh, hack your holidays Hack your holidays there. All right. Thanks for stopping in man. Bye He's got you got to go back into the warehouse and and start shimping things out. I haven't Uh, now now chris, I think you said you were you're taking off too I think I gotta bounce also. Hey, uh, if anybody hasn't put it together chris is the guy chris is the guy who does the uh, the post show roles on the audio podcast as well on uh, on travel as well as His own podcast, but I cut you off there. What were you gonna say? Oh, it's my parent's 60th anniversary today So I oh happy anniversary. Celebrate with them. So yeah, we'll send along our best wishes. I'll do so All right. Thanks again chris. Bye. Bye And paul, thank you for joining us as well Thanks. So it's uh, it's good good to connect and see you guys here. Have a great christmas And we'll do in the new year. Awesome Uh, well, tell us how it is whether it's safe to go into christmas and new year's you guys It can't be any worse. It's looking okay so far from the future So, um, you know, I think I think you're a safe to follow. Thanks paul. We'll talk to you soon. See you cheers. Happy new year All right, uh, there might be some more people, uh pop by here in the meantime I wanted to throw out fire dog's recommendation. He wanted a An app that would control his son's cell phone because his son was 16 and just started to drive Uh to keep him off his cell phone while driving. He says I don't know about other cities But on a daily basis I witness all ages swerving around the roads staring at their phones Didn't take me long to find a solution because of the naming choice cell control dot com It's reasonably priced at $129 and no subscription fee So it sounds expensive, but it is a one-time thing. You buy it once and that's it Uh, he says there are many options as to what is allowed like notifications, etc There's a web interface that allows you to see the trip information and max speed It can distinguish the passenger from the driver somehow. So it doesn't stop you from using it if you're not driving He says check it out. Uh, so fire dog recommends it cell control dot com Why isn't this built into all of our phones though? Well, just just the ability, right? Like I wouldn't want it to be on by default, but the ability to go in and manage it I guess the parental control aspect makes it difficult because They're hey, you know, they you basically have to agree to install something You know the the kid has to agree to install it to let the parent manage it Yeah, I don't want the parental stuff I I just want to be able to say yeah when when I'm traveling at more than you know 30 k an hour then don't call me like that kind of thing Just stop me from keep me like help me help myself is what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah, I have no self control I've accepted that so so step in and help me out here Yeah, I don't know why that that is so difficult Yeah, yeah, I was just gonna say so right now we're having a mini One degree related buzz out loud reunion because molly is hosting a marketplace right now as we speak in the background Oh Hi molly, how's it going? She can't hear me No, but I'll text her hi during a break. You're the you're the bridge between us right at the moment. That's awesome That's right. It's really happening Uh We got two more picks. I want to get to before we're done here john Uh co-executive producer in billings montana wanted to throw out office lens from microsoft for digitizing photos It's more along the lines of the listener feedback of just taking a picture But it will help your crop and straighten my favorite use cases after an intense whiteboard session Using it to digitize the whiteboard and send it to participants for documents It'll ocr them and it'll do the character recognition as well and it's on ios and android for free Yeah, it's made it to my the front page of my home screen. It's a it's a fantastic app Oh, so so you agree with john on this one, huh? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, um a lot of the ocr stuff doesn't really kick in unless you save it to one note Um, so you have to kind of use microsoft tools in the back end if you want that to happen, but oh, yeah Yeah, it's really cool Well, uh that and uh george wrote in and pointed out that sovereign prime dot com had put up an e-book called quantum animal Of the art of and it's off my screen here and it won't come up uh and the art of overcoming And uh gave us a little shout out at the end daily tech news show dot com So thank you george for pointing that out. So we'll have that link in the show notes as well Hey All right Well, that is pretty much going to wrap it up for us today. Uh, thank you peter wells for joining us I'm the only one sticking around again. Uh, yeah, thank you So so what can I expect to hear over the break? Uh, what what kind of special shows have you guys recorded? I'm glad you asked We're gonna have the best of show coming out this monday And roger put that together with segments that were nominated by folks in the audience So roger is is there anything particular we should tease about that but Uh See what stories your fellow viewers and listeners like the best and what they thought were probably the most engaging conversations tom had with the fellow Dts contributors And uh, yeah, because I can't remember off the top of my head We also have our uh our listener coho show our overrated stories or i'm sorry underrated stories Yeah, overrated is what everyone else does. We're doing underrated stories Uh, so stories you may not have heard about. Uh, we got Nate Langston and ian morris from text message for that We have our predictions show our predictions results show where we check on our predictions from last year And uh, and then uh, that brings us up to january 2nd when we'll be back with live shows and look who popped in Right at the end brekkie thomason. How's it going brother? Good good. How are you? I'm doing well. Uh, I bet you were trying to get in and the hangout wouldn't let you Well, yeah, I hear people were um crammed. I mean people were here all the time Yeah, it was it was starting to get a little warm in here.   What do you got coming up for the next week when in between the hall in the during the holidays? Absolutely nothing, man. I'm sleeping. That's that's the plan. Yeah Wait, do you have hue lights or something behind you? Or is that uh, I do It's pretty awesome literally all over the apartment. I I go to bed and I say, you know, hey Siri turn off the lights and she does I'm so glad that that it didn't work right then Yeah Well, awesome, man, uh, and you'll still be uh going with your with psychon network in 2017. Oh, absolutely. Yeah Yeah, I mean we're we're doing better than ever. Uh geek days is a great show. I mean not as good as yours, but it's getting there I'll stop. It's a small step at a time Uh, but yeah, we we do our own, you know daily geek culture type of thing and we're having a lot of fun doing it Oh fantastic remind people where they can find that again Uh psychon.fm that's csi c o n dot f m Yeah, like you're conning the csi people psychon. That's exactly how that works. Yeah Uh, and Pete Wells, what are you going to be doing in the new year? Uh, well, I'm gonna try try my best to to work at a time I meet up with you while I'm in vegas. I can't can't believe how hard that actually turns out to be. No, I know it's ridiculous Yeah, yeah, so people who don't know we've we've sent about 40 emails back and forth Just to work out like 30 minutes of on the ground time during c. Yes It's it's gonna be a fun week. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it We'll get we'll get you on on recording somehow one way or another Whether it's in the main show or or maybe I'll do some little bits uh from the floor at ces unveiled or de jacks or something like that That would sound that sounds like he's a fun. Um, yeah, you have a fantastic Christmas break, sir Uh, thank you to the entire dts crew. Um, everyone behind the scenes roger. You work so so hard I'm sure um, not a lot of people know just how hard you work on the show So thank you roger for for everything you've done. Thank you, jenny. Um, it's great to see you Tiny little head there at the bottom of the screen I'm gonna be a c. Yes, it's official Oh, good It'll be awesome All my favorite people in the worst city in the world. Yeah Yep, there's there's worse cities, unfortunately All right, jenny any any last words before we wrap up? All I'm saying is that if 2016 takes kary fischer for me, I'm going to wait. What wait do you know something? Do you know something? That's all I'm saying All right, say gee I carry fish will be back. I wish you guys all the very best in this time off You work really hard. I know exactly how precious that week is Um for people who work on this show every single day and you really deserve the break And thank you jenny. That's that's very nice And I likewise would remind people that jenny still is very essential to advising this show And helping us figure out what direction to go in and works really hard herself at marketplace And you should go check that out because one of the reasons we had ben johnson on the show Was because jenny dropped a little whispered somebody's ear And then I was able to be on marketplace tech doing the tally this week and that was really fun So thank you jenny Converge all the things Bring them all marketplace.org right? That's the right place to go. Yep. Yep Awesome. All right, Len. This is your last chance in 2016 To top yourself which you seem to do every week. Yeah, you know, I I wish I would have known that everybody was gonna be here for the party so the But you know, I wanted to do something for carrying out the bit to the end So I was sort of surprised But for the drawing, uh, I wanted to do something that I felt was really important Uh, it's uh, santa merit with uh, with uh, elf roger jolly jolly elf roger Saying happy uh, uh happy holidays and uh, happy new year and to all the good night from dtns For our last live show of the year. So the images of santa merit and jolly elf roger Awesome saying. Thank you to everyone that listened and everybody they contributed and everything else that for this year and on to year four That's lovely. I love it. Um, you're you're making me buy these every week now.  Well done. Well, you know, that's you know, there's there's a reason for that because You are the host of the show so So he feels obligated to do it. No, it's not So yeah, go check this out lead parol to store.com and as we mentioned at the top of the show, there's also The the fan the fan poster is still available with kwanto Yes, and also, uh, if you want to get a lot of the great stuff I did over this past year and previous years The daily tech news show, uh, instant art collection volume three is out So those are the great, uh images. I've drawn over the past year 10 of the 10 of the best ones, uh, and you can also pick up the other ones you can you can download version three Immediately digitally and print it out right from your desktop. So go ahead and check that out Thank you len, uh, and that's it uh for 2016 three years ago When we started this crazy adventure a bunch of you guys sent me a bottle of 25 year old talus or scotch To lift my spirits with some spirits I have been milking this thing for three years now and uh, I'm still incredibly thankful But if you're watching the video you can tell the thing is almost a dead soldier there. So Uh, this is it as we go. This is not this this means we are graduating from beta status. That's what I'm gonna say This was the beta bottle Send more beer, send more wine. Yeah, we are also So yeah, I'm gonna pour out the that's it and pouring it all out Dtns is officially a real show finally thanks to all of you Cheers We always thank our patrons at the end of the show Patreon.com slash dtns, but also the people who support us at all kinds of other ways if you're Supporting us if you're even just listening and enjoying the show. We thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much Here's to you happy holidays Trying to drink loudly for the audience Don't forget our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're live monday through friday 4 30 p.m eastern At alpha geek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv and our website is daily tech news show dot com back on monday With our best of show and back with live episodes on january 2nd and that's when i'll talk to you next This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frogpants.com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this program Thanks you guys for staying to the end It was great so many that was great. Yeah, that worked out great. It was a lot of fun Somebody asked me somebody asked me just what are you doing in there? I was like i'm podcasting secret podcast Oh, okay, I am officially done. So I am going to log off Well done land. Well done. Great year of art my friend. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me again Oh, thank you for doing it. I just super appreciate it. Oh, it's it's a lot of fun It's it's really is I've uh, not only has this been a lot of fun And i'm really happy to be along but made a lot of really great friends friends along the line Um, and uh, it's it's been a really it's been great. It's been great to be associated with it. So yeah, I'm excited I'm I'm literally I'm always blown away by by the art you come up with so it's fun. It keeps me on my toes. So it's good Keeps me sharp. So uh, happy new year. Uh, happy new year everybody and hap uh, merry christmas to everybody Merry christmas land Thanks for being part of the show. Take care. We'll see you in 2017. Yeah, we'll see you 2017 Feels like the future Yeah, man technically it's a week in the future, but it feels like the future So in the future Ah, yeah, I will see you guys in Vegas. Oh, yeah, uh, we'll we'll figure out the schedule one way or another and And I think what i'm doing because i'm i'm having other people like oh, I'd like to to do something or meet you Or say hi or whatever. I think it either ces unveiled or digital experience or both I'm just gonna record little bits like non-live bits So if we can't figure out the live show, then we'll do one of those for sure Yeah, sure. I'll definitely be unveiled. Um, I'll be at those what pepcom unveiled and the other one shows I always call it digital experience. Everybody call it else calls it pepcom. But that's what I mean, yeah Right. Yeah, cool. Cool. All right. Well, we'll definitely bump into each other. All right. Thanks man. I'm looking forward to it Cheers. Bye And then there was I'm going but I'm also going to try to be there by unveiled Okay, yeah, we'll then we'll definitely record something cool. Let's uh, let's let's conspire conspire I'll conspire with you guys Right um and roger i'm gonna i'm gonna slack you at some point about coming over and seeing ellie so I can bite her cheeks That's all I want. Okay Cheek fighting Yeah, all right. All right. Happy holidays, jenny Bye And so the year begins the way or ends the way It ended last year. Yeah Yeah, it kind of did it. Yeah, I think there were less people. There are a lot of people now. I think about it Yeah um Well, you know, maybe next year we do more of a stricter schedule Yeah, I was trying to get people to us. I was trying to get people to a schedule, but um The thing about the nice thing about hangouts is that you can just say hey people show up And then it does have this fun like oh look who's here element to it But then there's no way to signal like Like if they need to leave it feels awkward to just hang up Uh, and if we need them to leave it's it could be awkward too So I think we handled it. Okay, but if we said like we'll we'll like schedule actual waves more like what you tried Then that Yeah, maybe three ten minute waves or something. Yeah part of it was just uh Like some of some some of them didn't like chris didn't get the email or he just read it like Right when the show started because I tried to set that up. Oh, yeah Well, I we could be we could be a little more we could do it a little more in advance.  No, it's they got some good momentum there You're right. Good. Good. And I'm trying to figure a way if there's a way to do that without necessarily cleaving people Yeah, out of it because there it's it was kind of cool when I mean cool depending who you speak to paul between paul and Yeah, yeah, that was a great moment. Yeah, and then jen jumped in at the end So it's it's stuff like that. I think it was really neat and I'm trying to find Think of a way if only hanging out Uh, wasn't so restrictive. I mean, yeah, it's and we you know, I'm not wedded to hang out I'm just wedded to the ease of publishing and the ease of switching But if we had ideally a way to put people in a like waiting room in hangouts, that would be cool Yeah, and I'm trying to think is there a way to do that or Have something else that allows a lot of people but then we could take that feed As like my feed and it goes into you and you know, I mean like you could have people set up on skype on OBS or something. Yeah feed that in. Yeah, that's an interesting way to go about it too All right What happened to a destiny? Oh, there it is But I still have to actually publish this show, don't I? Yeah, yeah, I thought it I thought it went off great though. Yeah, I like it did it did definitely have that spun Spotted spun 80 that we were looking for. Yeah That's the fun part of not having it strictly scheduled right as you do get that That's part of this people are testing again. Yeah I should I just should assume everyone's internet was working You know when chris popped in early and when ron popped in early it was fine because it gave me a chance to go Wait, what was that? You know? Like oh Listen, the whole end show is cheesy. Oh, yeah There's no way to get around it The only thing I guess is uh, what will the schedule be for ces Like not is it normal showtime? Oh, you're starting. We're still live And I'm still publishing. Yeah Did you forget? No, I mean not that I don't mind talking about the schedule On on live, but I'm also in the still putting in id three tags, too I'm gonna say tom merit roger chang and Uh in the in the id three tags. Oh, we never picked a title Oh, let me pull showbot Apple is naughty and tesla is nice Consumer makes a list checks it twice that time. I interrupted the show The united podcasting nation Hack your holidays stretch colmore scotch Uh Almost never sets Uh, if someone sends you the Paste then that would be awesome. Oh beatmaster gave it to you right as the show ended I almost said something about it because I saw it pop up You just got scrolled back in chat No, I just got into chat though. That's a oh well, there you go. Is beatmaster still around? Can you send again? I mean honestly if we want to go topical apple is naughty tesla is nice He's a good one. Yeah, I like that one. All right. Let's do that that won't give away the The premise Perfect. I got the pace been cool in a pace. Thanks beatmaster. I mean beat 2016 with a stick Santa Santa merit Hmm, I don't like to irrigate my such titles to myself I would rather than be bequeathed to me Yes Bestowed I'd like them bestowed upon me This is a brief Yeah, man, I'm gonna uh, I'm gonna finish this show and then I'm done With work stuff until monday, uh, I guess when uh, when we have to Make sure that all the links get up Basically what what if you can make if you can be point person for those things I put in the email Like making sure the soundcloud link gets uploaded and all that if you run into a problem, though Just text message me and I'll I'll be your backup because I can always jump on and get stuff into Is that cool? Yes, but you haven't sent me that email yet. I did Oh things to do here it is. Yeah I'm sneaky. I sent it like right before the show started actually Because I already written it in the senate You feel like a doctor do this every day It's a prescription 30 jumping jacks Once a day with food Must do before 1 p.m. Pacific Oh, no fire dog in the chat says thanks for the big surprise that my pick hit the show just so happened My son was standing behind me while we were listening. That's amazing It's um at some point before monday Well, then the way it can't be you had to make youtube Oh at some point I've got Before monday the episode make make it live before monday Not like at the But well before monday We need to have this if we're gonna have show notes for the best of then it needs to be done before monday Oh, I see. I mean before monday at one o'clock really it can be done monday morning Does that make sense though? I just was thinking like oh, well, maybe we could link to the shows that you included I wasn't sure if that was something that would be easy for you Uh Possibly I don't remember what I put in the episode Um, I wrote it down though Uh, I'll have to update. Okay. So what what what jenny was obliquely referring to is that bbc reports kerry fischer Had a heart attack during a flight Uh from on london to la Oh, no, and she was rushed to a hospital upon landing What Man, I know 2016 is really just crummy I know I know it's all in the perception, but dude I talked about it on sorden laser 2016 was a rotten year for me without Without counting all but I only a current event that I counted was the cubs winning the world series Which for most people was a positive But yeah, like forgetting most current events like still like it's just one of those years I'll be honest Show wise daily tech news show had a great 2016 It wasn't our best year of the three, but it wasn't bad Um, you mean in performance or just Yeah, like, you know like quality of shows number of listeners number of people You know backing us and making sure that we're able to do the show We had a little dip in the middle of the year for the first time Um, so, you know, it wasn't like I said it wasn't the best of three, but it still wasn't like a disaster or anything like that TV had a great year beat master says It's true, uh, yeah on demand video Dark redeemer is like dude in 2016. I almost died. I did not obviously I survived to see the rest of the year Turned out as it did. Yay So glad to see you back in the chat room Man, uh, I was worried about you So I'm glad you didn't die. I'm very glad when people don't die Ah shane shane's like deteness was totally awesome with so many ems and ease Yeah, I think we had some of our best shows this year Cool And uh, a lot of that has to do with you roger like getting getting good guests and and Bookings and stuff. It's fantastic. I will not uh tonight For a moment. I thought I thought you were going to make a promise for 2017. I will not let that bender fall But no, you shouldn't deny it No subscription fee unless you want Your subscription fee can't be no, I should do it. Oh, I see this is uh set to release on a separate day What are you looking at? Uh the video manager for the episodes The video manager for youtube? Yes Uh, no, it's not set to release on any day The the deal with youtube is they don't let you schedule after you've uploaded Which means all of the things that we've recorded are just listed as unlisted So all you have to do there it actually makes your job easier All you have to do is on the day that that show is going to post At any time on that day, it doesn't have to be at posting time. You could make it public Okay, so do I I do the posting as they normally did when you're not here. I created a new page Nope, that's already created. All you have to do is go into the page that I created in wordpress And then change the mp3 link. That's all you have to do the wordpress page And then you have to go to youtube and make the the video for that episode public Okay, because You can't bring it to the top. Oh and add the playlist So make it public and add it to the dtns playlist and there will be no paste bin No, there won't be any pastes for those But that's all you have to do because you can't you can't actually it's already live Got it. So People can find it if they really want to you want to spoil yourself But uh, but that will make it show up on the on the channel So you don't have to like try to put it at the top or anything like that Just just make it live and add it to the playlist That's it. Couldn't you just hide it or no? That's it's hidden right now. Yeah. Oh got it Got it So it's super simple Oh, you made it unlisted. Okay, I got it. Yeah Well that way I was you know, I was letting some people have a look at it and I wanted to be able to put the uh The embed codes and stuff scheduled to go up This way if if there's a failsafe that if Something happened and you couldn't neither one of us could get to the post in time It would still work the youtube video will play and there is an mp3 That can be downloaded You know what I'm saying? This is like the most compelling holiday content ever Tom and Elijah planned Plan for the holiday break Megan wells.  Oh Peter just uh, just uh, tweeted at uh, you and Jenny We should have given a shout out to our long suffering partner. Oh, we should have for sure Well, now we have Because we're still live Yay Thanks to all the partners and understanding Girlfriend's boyfriends, fiancé's husbands wives daughters Yeah, I'll be honest, uh My wife the the the thing is one of the many things that I love about her is that she's just like yeah, just do your thing like you know She she doesn't let it bother her doesn't she doesn't have any issues with it, you know She just lets me have this hole downstairs Sometimes she comes down here and hangs out, but mostly she's like, yeah, that's your that's your thing You don't you don't bother with you don't mess with my office. I'm not gonna mess with your Um, it's awesome. It's good. That's great. I mean Jen Jen will work around her schedule to meet mine. So it's good Yeah Man, it got dark. Thanks. Peds. I just saw Peds wrote great job this year ace detect and roger c Should I watch twitch in real life paint drying channel ice melting channel on d or dts youtube episode wrap up Step choice, man. I don't know. Yeah. Depends on what comes with the free hot dog. I mean paint drying might beat us Not gonna lie Just paint dry if you're looking at it It's like a there's a lot like a watch pot never boils. Yeah good news for It takes forever for soundcloud to update the feed after upload the The mp3 it seems It seems I feel like archive is a little slow today too Maybe just a little it might be uh busy transferring all the copying all those files Yeah There we go. Apple is naughty and tesla is nice dot mp3 boom Done. All right. I'm gonna publish this Like it's the last thing I'll do in 2016 And then I'm gonna double check and make sure I did it right like it's the last time I could screw it up in 2016 Okay, we gotta show up.   It's too late for the audio episode. But here hold on listen to this Hi, I'm mike range and it's time for the final weekly tech views preview of the year Which in this case is a preview of a review as this week's column features our top 10 stories of the year Determined by an elite panel of me While most of my attention was on my third viewing of will ferrell's elf at number 10 An investigation into suspected tax evasion resulted in spanish authorities raiding google's madrid office What are you doing here? Demanded a google executive An officer shouted we're here to initiate a search And everyone had a hearty laugh See the complete top 10 saturday at daily tech news show dot com And better yet see all 500 plus in the book tech please now available at amazon It's a last minute gift that says lovingly Thank god. I didn't have to go to the store Happy holidays There you go folks go buy mike range's book Please please because if you don't he's gonna be really mad at me for forgetting that to put it and put that in today's show Uh, I think what i'll do is i'll add that to the audio version of Monday's best of because it kind of is a best of kind of right Right roger right? Hello Sorry, I didn't want to breathe on top of the audio playback. No. Yeah, I guess you could I mean just to fix it to the mp3 All right, so it's going to be in the video episode for today like it was just now It's going to be in the full episode for patrons like it was just now And then i'm going to add it I'll swap it out I'll swap out the archive.org link and i'll what i'll do for you roger is I will make a new mp3 that has this attached at the end So that when you upload the best of episode So are you going to delete the one that's up there already in the drop box? Yeah, I'll replace it So you it'll look exactly the same as it is now. I'll just replace it with with one that has this at the end Okay Almost almost let mike down again. I forgot is I forgot his promo one week and I felt really bad about that So go no seriously go, uh buy with the weekly tech views ebook Not even lie just search on amazon you'll find it That's it We're we're pretty much out of here, right? finito of the year well not for the year Yeah, well, I mean we have other episodes coming but uh, all right Well, I've got a splash of the beta scotch left So before I go I don't want to get all choked up again but The people who have supported this show Whether it's from day one three years ago or whether you just started pledging today uh you I cannot possibly say thank you to all of you enough Uh for letting us do this and not just me but letting me create a show that that can support roger and and gets jenny and veronica and Patrick and scott and justin and darin and lenn and pete And rich straffolino now with daily tech headlines involved you guys are the best So what you know what powers this show is you? Thank you for that happy holidays Here's to a happy 2017


And without further ado, we'll move to the next topic of this first meeting, which is a roundtable dedicated to some of the many questions you have raised. And so I will pass the floor immediately to José. Okay. So yes, we are happy to start this roundtable. And the purpose of this roundtable is to discuss how to shape the group. And it is a pleasure for us to host as participants of this roundtable. So Philly Wells, who is a co-founder of NFCore and currently works at Seketa. It's been nothing, couldn't join. So he has also been involved in NFCore just in case he stepped in. He has been involved in the NFCore creation. He is from Kubik in Tubingen. His research is more focused on human genomics, but he has also been involved in this group before, as many of you know. Also Sara Giavalli, who is currently an interim researcher working in IRSD and Silvan Fosec, coming right to Luz, who were both of them were highly involved in Genius Witch project in Eurofang. And of course, Krista, our speaker, who has been already nicely introduced by Selig and was the coordinator of the Warwick project. And as the roundtable will be about how to shape the special interest group, first I will let Phil introduce what this idea of the NFCore special interest groups is. So then, so yes, Phil, the stage is yours. Please. Thanks very much. I won't take up much of your time. I'll just quickly kind of firstly say thank you to all of you for being part of NFCore, being involved. And thank you, Krista, for a fantastic talk. It's like all these things, it's amazing to hear about the impact that the community has and kind of hear back from people in the community about how the pipelines are being used and how it's affecting the way that people work. So really appreciate that. Thank you very much and it's great to have you all here. We're meeting because of this kind of new NFCore concept called special interest groups. I just kind of wanted to point to a couple of resources about them. I put out a blog post just the other day. So this is kind of the main place to go to right now for any details. You go to community and blog and then you'll see there's one called special interest groups and kind of set out the stage for what we're doing and why and a little section about your at the bottom. And kind of as an overview level, the idea behind this was that we until now have really been focused on, as you said, Krista, kind of focused on developers largely within the community, kind of bringing developers together to build pipelines and trying to really help people to collaborate and share ideas and development practices. And because of that, the structure of the community has been focused on the pipelines themselves and to some extent the tooling. But what we're starting to see more has been quite a lot of work with different kind of external communities and consortia, the tightest integration being with Bob Wragg and Eurofang. And what it's really interesting there is that we're having groups of people with common interests, but they're not focused on a single pipeline. They're kind of working across a set of pipelines, but in a specific manner. And so it's kind of perpendicular action is the kind of founding idea of special interest groups that we can help people to collaborate not just for multiple institutions on a single analysis type, but also across specific analysis fields. And by bringing people across from all over the world, all working on similar ideas, we can hopefully kind of come up with and collaborate on standardization, not just of the pipeline code, but the way that specific pipelines are run and the way that specific data is handled. So that's it really. I'm going to kind of, if you're interested in more, I encourage having a read through this blog post, it kind of explains a little bit about the mechanics that we've decided on within the NFCOR kind of governance, about how special interest groups will function. You can find yourselves and any future interest groups under this kind of dedicated page. So we really hope that this will kind of expand over time and that all of you will help contribute to these pages. Like any other page on NFCOR website, if you just click this edit button top right, it takes you straight to GitHub and it's just marked down files. So you can kind of submit a pull request and edit and add to these pages as you see fit. So and most of all, I want to hear from you all about what you need and what would be useful for you as end users and members of the community. Because this is new. We've never done this before. We just want to be as useful as possible for the people in the community. And so we're very much kind of on the listening end rather than the dictating end of this whole process. Okay, happy to do this. Yes, I have to maybe unpick you. Okay. Yes, thanks, Phil. Where are you? Okay, sorry. I have to yes. Okay, you are not spotted anymore. Okay. So thanks for the nice introduction to the special interest groups. And to make the discussion a little bit more agile, we have prepared some topics to discuss. But maybe as also Krista had this nice slide with some questions, maybe we can start with one of these questions, these somehow provocative questions about how we see this equilibrium between the progress and off of next flow and NFCOR and the standardization and the productivity. So do you think that this could be an issue at some point?  I'd love to take a crack at this. I thought about asking a question, but I thought as we're going to be doing around table, I'd save it. Yeah, this question of kind of standardization and doing like the final mile is how I often think about it. You kind of hear about this with public transport and stuff, you know, you get dumped by a train in the city centre, but how do you get everybody out to the final little destinations where it's different for everyone? We have the same problem NFCOR. We want everybody to collaborate and we want everyone to standardize. But in order to do that, we have to make the pipelines generic to some extent. And that always leaves most people with the final mile of analysis, where you need to do that thing to your data, which is specific to your project, to your exact data type, and how do we deal with that? Again, very open to suggestions here. I mean, at the moment, we basically tell everyone, okay, it's over to you now. We've helped you get this far. It's up to you to do the last bit. There's some work ongoing to try and streamline those, that final manual work. For example, on the Secura side, back at the end of last year of the next low summits, Evan announced a new feature launching within platform called Data Studios, which will be basically a way to launch interactive workspaces on the same compute location that you run your data. And I hope that we can sort of tie these two features together in the future. So when your pipeline finishes, the pipeline developers will be able to set up kind of custom analysis set up so you can kind of, okay, jump straight into this data visualization tool or this exploration tool or this Jupiter notebook or whatever. So there's some things we can do like that with the tooling. Another thing that I think we can do to try and address it is attack this idea of kind of chaining pipelines or meta pipelines. As you mentioned, Krista, with the advent of DSL2, in next low, we've kind of adopted this notion of modules where we've gone from pipelines down. We've broken up all the modules into these tiny reproducible components which we can share around between pipelines. And that's been very powerful, but it still stops at the pipeline level. So something we've been discussing a bit recently is like, well, maybe we can kind of go in the other direction and treat an entire pipeline as a module effectively and either build a meta pipeline where you can kind of import multiple pipelines and just stick them together or improve the experience of being able to chain pipelines together maybe with or without next flow. That, I think, if we can get it to work, will be a very powerful idea. And that's something we're working very hard on at the moment in the core next-low development team. Yeah, so far. Yes, please, Eli. Yeah, it's contribute to the discussion. I think, yeah, it's a very, I like the idea of the last kilometer and you know, need to reach to get the users to be involved in the community. And from my point of view, there are two major bottlenecks and you already cited them. So the first is the technological accessibility issue. So of course, if you develop like easier, oh yeah, my yes, it automatically corrected with kilometers. Sorry. So of course, if you bridge this gap with like a web-based tool or some platform that is easier for people to try to play a bit, of course, the point is not to develop a Galaxy web interface, but this could be something to work on, I guess, for NFCOR and to help people get a sense of what it is to run something and get some results. And then the second point, apart from the accessibility and technical accessibility, would be the customization. And one aspect is totally addressed with what you call the modularity and chaining pipelines and combining pipelines to adapt the tools to the needs of the scientists. And maybe there's another level of customization for me that is a key to make sure people can make it work on their experiments is the part of the experimental design file. For instance, where you assign to every file, you assign the experimental factor. If for instance it's a paired experiment, if it's a time series experiment or stuff like this. And this is a key part of the analysis that is actually shared by many workflows because we can, this is a central point for RNAC, ATACCIC or whatever the omics you use. You always have samples and you have categories of samples. You might want to compare groups. And this is something that was not very from my perception. That was not very obvious because it was not homogenized across workflows and pipelines. And I know that there has been a lot of work on this. And I'm totally unaware of what is going on. So yes, that could be something to share. Yeah, sample sheets are a very difficult topic. One of my least favorite topics because there is such a thorny issue. We did quite a lot of discussion with a group in the US led by Nathan Sheffield. He's the author of Ref Genie, which we originally started him. And he's also behind a project called PEP Portable Encapsulated Projects. And basically the idea of PEP is to create a standard for sample sheets along with like a server and schema and all this kind of stuff with the idea that different pipelines and different standards could adopt that standard. It never really went anywhere because we never quite got the degree of kind of adoption within next flow. It was very Python based and we needed it to be groovy. And I don't know, it was never quite happens. But some of the core ideas were pretty nice. And we're kind of the way we have been pushing more, I guess, is about sample sheet validation. And that's something I hope to see more of. So I'm not sure how visible this is, but we've had more over the past two years, we've had more and more of this kind of validation steps when you launch a given next flow pipeline that checks that you're, the parameters you've supplied are valid rather than failing halfway through the run because you used a string when it should have been a number. And we're slowly pushing that in the direction of sample sheets now as well. So a pipeline developer can write a schema defining what the sample sheet should look like. And then the sample sheet contents itself can also be validated like it should have this column name and the values within that column should look like this. The initial use of that, which is coming into some pipelines now, is just to fail quickly if you've got something wrong. But my hope has always been, since about 2020 when I started that project, that one day that would form a foundation for creating a set of tooling to make it easier to create those files in the first place. Because now we have a file that says your sample sheet should have four columns, this one should be yes, no, et cetera. And we should be able to build tooling around all of that. And if you dig deep enough on NF Core Tools repository, you'll find a whole load of GitHub issues where I've sketched out how some of this tooling could look. But we just need some developers to actually go and build it. Phil, if I can bounce to this, one of our challenges now is that we are building increasingly complex pipelines. And they are not anymore linear. They have plenty of crossroads. And eventually, one way of using the pipeline is a valid path through this complex metro map. But many paths are topologically valid, but they don't necessarily make scientific sense. Or if they do, they need to be explored. And so we are now with a challenge of having a pipeline that are as inclusive as possible, but also increasingly complex, where each set of parameters is effectively a pipeline. How do you see, how is the future of these things in NF Core? Or how do you think they should be handled? Yeah, and this comes a little bit back to the notion I mentioned earlier, of meta pipelines and increasing pipelines. You take pipelines like the really big pipelines, like Sarek, for example, and they're beasts. You can just do so many different things in them. And if we can unlock this ability to chain pipelines, parts of that discussion is, okay, do we take the big pipelines and chop them up? And so then we have a pipeline for just doing variant calling. And if all you care about is variant calling, you don't have to worry about all that other stuff. And it removes a lot of that complexity. But we still can also have kind of these meta pipelines, which would look very much like the current Sarek where you can run the whole way through from start to finish and do everything in one go. So that's interesting. So just to make sure I understood, you mean that pipelines should become linear again, taking advantage of the modularity? Exactly, but have a kind of different levels of complexity and have a bit more specialization of top-level pipelines. That's a bit of a hand-wavy answer, because how you take that concept and actually make it into something concrete, which is not overwhelmingly confusing, is not trivial. But I think there's something there. So if I can speak from my point of view, which is not everybody's point of view here, as a method person, I like to explore a combination of methods. So one of the reasons I like very big bulky pipelines is because suddenly you can run crazy loops and exploring all kinds of combinations. And these things are of a lot of interest to me because they allow me to explore the method space. But they are not very useful for end users, because end users want one solution that works. And so it's an important and interesting tension, I think, that could be explored. So if I may, you reminded me why you're talking Sylvan of something I forgot to say in the earlier section about different ways we can do the final mile and also the customization of the final results. Not quite the same thing, but something I'm quite excited about specifically with special interest groups. And also Cedric is ties nicely into the concept of complex pipelines.  But actually, if you're doing animal genomics, maybe you don't, much of that parameter space is not relevant or you don't care about it. And so one idea which I would love to explore is the idea of collaborating on configuration of pipelines. So at the moment, if you go to resources and shared configs, we have already the idea of collaborating and sharing configs, but they're on a compute infrastructure level. So I can go through and say, okay, I'm working in Sweden. Here is a config to run on the shared academic cluster in Sweden, and I can just do minus profile up max. We've had that since quite the early days of NFCORN. It's extremely powerful, especially for bringing in new users. But I would love to one see if we could do something similar that we say, okay, I'm working with bovine genomic data with the RNA-seq pipeline. Here's the configuration profile, which has got sensible defaults, not for human, but for bovine data or whatever. And again, that's kind of work there. That's collaboration and domain expertise, which is maybe a level of collaboration that we've not yet tapped into. I'd be really interested to see if we could do something now. And sort of zooming back onto the purpose of this round table, which is the future of this channel, the future focus of this channel. So do you think that establishing this set of common parameters is as important to goal of establishing common pipelines? Do you think it's one of it? Should be one of the purposes, a special interest group? I think the answer to that question lies with you all, because the special interest group is not for my benefits. It's for your benefit. But it's one idea that I think is interesting and I would hope could be useful for you. Because during this discussion, and Jose you're in charge, but I was wondering, but Chris, to finish it, if we could have sort of typical questions, typical things you guys would want to ask on this channel. And I proposed one, you know, typically, I'm doing this kind of analysis. Is anybody doing the same of kind of analysis? Which kind of tools are you using? That's one thing, but probably all of you have different takes on this. And Krista, I see your hand is raised. Yeah, I very much like this idea of having some tested, validated parameters for I mentioned that the problem that increasingly this NFCOR technology allows non biometrician to have rather standardized well developed pipelines. And you mentioned that we have, in the non linear concept, you can glue together things which don't make a lot of sense or parameters which don't make a lot of sense. So for the different applications, I think it would be very beneficial from a user's point of view to come up with these parameter definitions. And then the core group, this animal genomics interest group could provide us very important service because here are the experts who would be able to decide what does make sense and what doesn't. Even if it's just one or two of them, if there's a really specialist and then could be briefly discussed in the group and this be published as a group output for the community, it would definitely a strong, very strong point. And Phil, if I can ask, where will these parameters leave? Because these sets of parameters, they beg for a house, just like the pipelines. Yeah, I mean, this is up for discussion, but we already have a GitHub repository called NFCOR slash configs, which is where all the institutional pipeline config files live. So I could imagine us having new sub directories under there and you could have an animal genomics directory and then have a config there for each different NFCOR pipeline. And then we can also build that instead of a website and have a web page which kind of renders those and has associated help text or whatever. So please, that will raise your hand. Yeah, I think this, I guess, one of the things that I'm interested in a lot, and this ties into, you know, looking at different methods or doing these various parameter sweeps. But I think that's something that I would like to see is sort of sharing of how essentially just everybody's experience of how changing things, like how does that affect the results? You know, if you use GTK for variant calling versus deep variant for variant calling, just even these major decisions like that, I think it's something that end users, we spend a lot of time tweaking and seeing, okay, if I change this parameter, what happens to my results? If I use this argument versus that argument, how does it affect runtime or resource usage? And I think that that's something that just sort of is a general bioinformatics community. I don't think we do a great job of detailing those things. A lot of times you'll see it and, you know, there might be benchmarking papers when somebody releases a new method. And you, I think, just kind of have to hope that you can extrapolate from whatever's found in those papers to your own data. But I think that having an interest group to sort of share the inside and the experiences that we all have could be extremely useful for, you know, running down or turning down, you know, useless computations when we could sort of already know what happens when you use GTK versus deep variant just to run with that example again. Yes, I agree. And who was going to talk? Someone was going to say something? So I was just like to plus this. I mean, this is my impression is that this kind of discussion Trevor mentioned should be the real heart, you know, of the channel. These are very important discussions that should take place in the channel because where else can you ask this kind of question if not to people who are doing the same kind of analysis you're doing? And so is it, how should it work? Should it be like thread? And there will be one thread dedicated to a specific question, for instance, or is it something because otherwise it can get very, very messy rapidly. So I guess this could be sort of self organizing threads that gradually add up. Well, how do you see it? Yeah, I guess I'm not sure I have a great answer. I just I have a question and no solution for it. One of the things I was wondering was a couple of ways I see that coming up. One is through regular meetings and note taking. You know, if a regular meeting is happening, people such as yourself could submit questions like that to kind of and when everyone discuss it, then hopefully take some notes during that meeting. So to record those kind of discussions of prosperity and and or have the recording online, though written written notes always a bit more accessible. And the other thing is just making use of the Slack community that we have just to pop in and ask a question, but have the audience at your fingertips of, you know, a global community of people working with the same technology and the same data type in one place. Sorry, you had to hand up and I spoke every I was about parameters. I think there are two things. It's always nice to have a reference points, of course, with the configuration files that are proposed by people and you could get them from publications and all in that centralized part that there is a quite an interesting idea, I think, because it's always better to to look what the others have tried and if it works, maybe you can start by that. But I think, Cedric, we have the feeling that it's not only the method people that are interested in playing with parameters because end users, they have to. With combination of tools as well. Yeah, because, you know, you always eventually you end up looking okay, but I don't get my gene or maybe these ones, I'm not sure if they are really overexpressed or whatever. So maybe this has a low expression value, maybe I could raise a bit the threshold or whatever. And we all do that not only if we're interested in methods. So this is a critical thing. And so, yeah, the more the more reference points, the better it is. And I think maybe this is not, I'm wondering if the main factor that is impacting the parameters is like the species or more maybe the technology and sometimes like the kit, the enzyme that was the protocol, the experimental protocol that was used. And this has experience shows that it has a huge impact on how you're supposed to analyze your data. And in that regard, to have a lot of parameter files, if they are properly documented, which is like another challenge for you, could be very useful. And then I have a comment about the questions and the channel and so on. I'm wondering how and this is a question for you guys, how you see the articulation with the existing channels for the dedicated pipelines. Because if someone has a question about RNA-seq, wouldn't they ask it more on the RNA-seq channel than on interest? Yeah, so. Yeah, absolutely. And that's something I kind of touched upon in reference in the blog post, but it's a bit of a concern of mine is that the new interest groups kind of pull discussion out of the wider channels, which would be a potential negative consequence. So my hope is that basically there'll be some kind of self-organization about, you know, if a discussion thread is clearly technical nature and not specific to animal genomics that is specific to RNA-seq pipeline, then absolutely that discussion should stop in that channel and switch over to RNA-seq. But there's nothing that I can or should do to actually enforce that. It's just going to be up to you to decide that. I wouldn't be so confident. I think the other way around, the discussion would start in the specific channel and there won't be any discussion that are sparing in the discussion group, you know. But you know, Silver, I think so it's a very, very important and critical point because if the discussion does not take place at the right place, that generates chaos. And so I think, and that is touching on the last items of this discussion, because I see the audience is twinkling and we'd like to finish on this. But we need to organize this channel. We need to have some good practices and we need to agree among ourselves and to rapidly identify if a discussion is not taking place at the right place and then it will have to be moved in another place. And it's important because this will make things effective. Most of the members of this channel will also be following other pipeline channels because they will be following the pipeline channels in which they are interested. And we have to try to make sure that the discussion in this channel are about a homogeneity of analysis across animals, across model systems. We have to make sure that this is all about interoperability, all about decreasing the level of fragmentation. Anything that has to do with the specific use of a tool is probably something that should take place in different channels. And so that's the question, you know, I was hoping we had the flags then on this, but we should probably draft a code of good practice for the channel, a code of indication of the kind of questions we think belong to the channel and the question that belong to other types of channel. And that's something, if you guys agree, maybe we will share a Google doc at some point and we can we can sort of prioritize the question. And that was me trying to say before, you know, a typical question is I am doing this kind of analysis on that animal. What kind of tools are you using this kind of thing? And if we could gradually come up with a list of questions with a list of personal questions you want, I think it could be useful. Okay, yes. So, and then maybe we should deselect it somehow to this and the shape of the group, what should be the regular activities of the group. So, for instance, you think that we should host seminars or regular roundtables? Should we make like, I don't know, a series of seminars or just intercalate one with the other? I don't know, maybe it is a question for Cedric or anyone that wants to jump in. So, I can start on the seminar. So, I can tell you guys what was my vision, which is a little bit biased, of course. It was to because of the environment in which I work at a surgery, it was to bring to this group state of the art of what is going on in human genetics. And so, for instance, we're going to try to have Roderick Grigo, representing Angkor and G-tex, talking very soon. We're going to have to try to have Thomas Marquez, who was leading the primate pan genome. We're going to try to have this kind of people because I think they will provide an inspiration to this channel. But of course, we would also like to have people from your community. And that brings an important issue, on which I'd like to finish. That's especially for Christa, sorry for singling you out, Christa and Silva, but you are the animal people, I know best now on this call.  But we don't really have, you know, we are not really legitimate as representative of the animal community. And so, I think it will be very important that the interest group is run jointly with people who carry more weight than we do in the animal community. And so, we should have, it does not have to be formal from the start. It can if you guys want, but I think it will be important to identify the core board for the channel that will administer the channel and that will propose speakers and propose themes and do a joint. We are happy to take care of all the logistics and all that stuff and then feel and NFGOR are providing us a great support and then we're going to have even more of this. But I think it will be great to have some of you guys involved. And so, Christa, I know you must be extremely busy now with your new attribution, but if you have someone or if you can propose someone who you think could be, I think Rosalind is a little bit underrepresented today, but I know they are interested and I'm sure we can, we could motivate Emily or Dan Laquine and these people feel sorry. Yeah. And I just wanted to sort of extend on that and maybe pick on someone else in this meeting being very biased and completely picking on accents, but I wonder, Trevor, I guess from your accent, they are not part of the European collaboration. And so, A, am I correct in that assumption? Yes. Yeah. I'm in the United States. So, like, that's something else I would really love to see is we want NFGOR to be as inclusive and global as possible. So, I'd love any insight from you and because this interest group is starting off from a European centric consortia, like how do we reach other U.S.-based consortia that we can tap into? How do we increase the reach network effect? Yeah. That's a difficult question. I think for one, because I don't necessarily have my, I'm not too deep in the animal science pool here. I was a molecular biologist and then just sort of started working in animal science on the bioinformatics side. So, I'm not too up to date with all the consortia that are present over here. I think it's maybe more fragmented and it's maybe just sort of appealing to people in individual groups. Animal science here, they tend to be very friendly in person and a lot of them know each other personally. So, I think just sort of word of mouth is maybe the best way to get this going here in America. So, we have contact with Chris Toggl and James Rissi and they couldn't make it today because there seemed to be a NIFA taking place in the U.S. these days, but we hope that we will be able to engage them and that's something probably Chris, I have more to say than me on this. Yeah, you already mentioned Jim Rissi and Chris Erzik was today on the call. She's also very much, she could be some kind of a connecting person because she also has a lot of links to the human side and she's very much interested in providing resources for the community. So, even though she's maybe not one of the core users because she's more into databases than into data analysis herself, but she could also be somebody and then there's, I think in the U.S., they also have a kind of a science bioinformatics group from some funded projects. I just don't quote, she's from, the name is out of my head, but she's also very much into bringing the environment's community together. I would pick up the name for her, it would be nice also to contact her. And it's a fact that the reason we are now having this meeting at 4 p.m. is actually to be more inclusive with our U.S. colleagues so that I don't know what time it's for you to travel, not too early in the morning, I hope. But so, yes, this is something very important. It's very important that the group expands toward the U.S. and that's one of the things we'll be trying to achieve. I think we've been on the call for about one and a half now, Jose, you want to... Yes, no, this is what I wanted to say that maybe we have to wrap up and finish the call because people may have to move on. So, yes. Go ahead, Cedric. No, I think we are still figuring out the speaker for the next session that will take place again on the third Wednesday of the week and then we will communicate with you. We already have a speaker lined up till July. We will take a break after the third Wednesday of July and we will resume on the third Wednesday of September and we'll keep you updated through the Slack channel. Exactly. And I really want to thank all of you. We've been a bit long and the audience has decreased a little bit, but this was... We started with a pretty nice audience for your talk, Christa. So, I think this was a pretty nice success for launching and thank you all for being here for joining this roundtable and this has been terrific. So, see you all a month from now. See you and thank you so much. Thank you, Cedric. Thanks, everyone.