It's an episode of elections at today's daily debrief, one that's currently ongoing and one in the near future. We begin with Pakistan where the results of the historic process that took place on Thursday are trickling in amid much chaos. Now as of now and this is important, as of now is evening on Friday. It does seem like independence backed by the Pakistan Tehri Ke Insaf party or former Prime Minister Imran Khan have a slight edge. Now it is important to note that the party was not allowed to contest in these elections officially because it was denied its symbol and thus its candidates took part in the elections as independence. The delay in announcing these results has already led to a lot of controversy with the PTI that is Imran Khan's party alleging rigging. While we don't know the final results yet and a lot may change by the time that this episode is out, the results so far itself indicate that this is a landmark election. We go to Abdul for more. Abdul, thank you so much for joining us. A very interesting election in Pakistan. Of course the results are delayed also a controversy but from the results available right now it looks like the candidates backed by the PTI are in the lead. And of course this was quite unexpected I suppose although we had talked about it before. But while we are recording it, what is evening on Friday in Pakistan results still a lot more results to come. So take us through what is available right now. Well Prashant as per the election commission of Pakistan's official results which have been there, which have been announced and which is reported by the local media in Pakistan. Only 86 seats have been announced. We should remember that there are only 266 seats which are contested out of that one seat of course because of the technical reason it is not the election will be held on that seat later. So out of 265 only 86 results are out so far. And this is as you rightly pointed out quite late. The official results were to be announced as per the CPS official announcement on Thursday late night. But this is more than 12 hours. In fact more than 16 hours and only 33 to 40% seats results of that is out. And as per the record as per the CPS official results out of these 33 seats have been won by the candidates which are independent. Of course, all of them are backed by PTI as it is claimed by them. And then the PLM Pakistan Muslim League Nawaz which was considered to be the leading which was considered to be the front runner in all official channels is basically trailing with 27 seats. PPP is very close by with 18 seats so far. Rest of the seats are with other parties. Some of them are also independent. So this is official status as this point. Of course, there are as you rightly pointed out there is controversy. PTI in particular has contested the results announced so far and claimed that they have won majority so already. And they are also amazed that the election commission of Pakistan is indulging in rigging of results. Abdul, so just to go back to that point which is that like you said many all the official channels and official narrative was that the PTI was pretty much finished. The Pakistan Muslim League Nawaz or former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif was said to lead. There had been an agreement. So what do you think prompted? Of course, there will be more time for more detailed analysis maybe next week. But right now what do you think is prompted this kind of a result which seems quite surprising? Well Prashant see even in this result officially which is announced see there are more than almost 150 seats which officially are to be declared and it seems that whatever the Pakistan media is reporting and or has been reporting since last night in majority of those seats independence have been leading. Of course, official results may be different, but that's what the the version is there at least in the public domain. And that is the basis on which there are claims made that there is an attempt to manipulate the final results and so and so forth. What prompted this of course is quite obvious. The reason behind it, which were obvious during the public opinion surveys conducted by different agencies before the final vote that there is a widespread anger among the Pakistanis at this moment. And particularly it this anger was also channelized by the Imran Khan's party ever since they were basically removed from power in April 2022 through a no confidence vote. So Imran Khan and PTI had pitched that this is basically they have been removed unfairly because of the external intervention and the army and other political establishment have been against them. And that basically had led to a kind of greater mobilization behind Imran Khan and PTI. And despite the fact that they were not allowed to contest as a political group and all the candidates of PTI are contesting as independent in seems there is a popular mobilization behind them. That is also reflected in the final voter turnout though official figures are not out but the speculations are that this is unprecedented in Pakistan's history and much more than of course than 50% which was there in 2018 last national elections. So that shows that the additional mobilization people came out and voted prime one of the major reasons of course is the anger against the established political party the way Nawaz Sharif was brought in and pushed and they PTI and Imran Khan were pushed behind that basically has infuriated people. That is what the analysts are saying. Of course there are also reasons which are much more grounded reasons and you can say much more structural in nature in a sense that Pakistan economy in particular has been in very bad shape for last many years and it has become bad towards in last you can say two years since Imran Khan was removed from power. And that basically had also added into the anger against the established party and particularly the parties which were in power in this period which is the PML and PPP in alliance. So economic and economic reasons which has created frustration among the people and of course the sense that there is a attempt to kind of rig popular mandate. There is attempt to sideline popular mandate. These two things together could be the factor behind this kind of result which we are seeing at this moment in our front. Thank you so much for that update. We will come back to you most probably on Monday with for a deeper analysis of the results as well. From Pakistan we go to the United States and the legal challenges before Donald Trump all of which are connected to the elections later this year. The US Supreme Court is hearing Trump's challenge of a Colorado court verdict which bars him from the state's primary on account of the insurrection attempt of January 6, 2021. Trump has also recently hit with an adverse verdict on the question of immunity he enjoys which he is likely to contest to. To understand these cases and more importantly their implication on the election we go to Anish. Anish thanks so much for joining us. So let's first go to the arguments currently that at least the arguments that took place in the US Supreme Court on Thursday. What was this case about? What was Trump contesting basically? Well obviously the case we have covered about it is based on the Colorado Supreme Court state Supreme Court ruling that disqualified Trump from standing in the ballot for the Republican primaries. And obviously this was followed by another state Supreme Court ruling in Maine, the state of Maine and in both these cases Trump was disqualified from standing as a candidate. In the party primary it kind of also essentially disqualifies him from standing even in the later presidential elections to be held in November this year. Now in both the cases the case itself is nothing new because what we have seen so far in the last two years it is based on the insurrection phase which is the Capitol Hill writing that happened. In January of 2021 when Trump incited, essentially incited several of the supporters to fight like hell and storm the Congress House, the Capitol building which holds the Congress which was at the time vetting the election results. So this case itself was construed by many who have proposed Trump as a sign of insurrection because an insurrection can be essentially anything that undoes or tries to upturn the constitutional process of the United States. It has never been used. Now one of the things is that in this clause within the Constitution which is the only clause that allows for a disqualification of a candidate from running for president has never been used and Trump is probably the first person to be ever used against pretty much disqualifying him. The clause itself was in fact created in the post civil war era United States to disqualify confederate leaders from contesting elections of any kind for that matter and prevent them from taking office, any constitutional office. Now the case before when it reached the Supreme Court we had already, there was already an understanding that it is most likely to rule in favor of Trump because we are looking at the conservative supermajority. So for majority, three of these judges were Trump appointees themselves. So it is quite unlikely for them to rule against him. And if it does that would be very interesting but the likelihood of that is not some anywhere even in the horizon. But what kind of arguments they're going to go for is going to be interesting and that will have major implications, not just for the upcoming elections but also overall like who gets to stand and who gets disqualified it kind of has a constitution remaking kind of implications. Now the judges all have already like we had a very barely a two hour or three hour long hearing session and it was pretty much concluded with that. And so the judges are most likely to rule in favor of Trump. They have raised a lot of points where one at least have raised this point that whether or not a single state has the power to disqualify somebody from standing for a presidential election which is a national election. While fair but we have known for the past several years and covering US elections that US elections in general are decided by a handful of states very often rather than any kind of popular mandate. On the other hand, there has been arguments raised by, you know, opponents, the people who have petitioned against Trump, most of whom are Republicans themselves that Trump cannot be trusted because there is there is a question of whether or not there has been an insurrection or not, which is something that the judges have not touched so far, which actually then from actually making a judgment that would decide what kind of acts constitute an insurrection and by definition to decide whether or not Trump has the right to contest the elections. So it is a very complicated thing they have tried to sharpen it so that it favors Trump and it is quite obvious at this point in time. And Anish of course there's another case as well which is likely also to go to the Supreme Court that has to do with the immunity Trump is you know supposed to enjoy as president could you also detail that case for us. Essentially, the idea of immunity comes from the fact that presidents or anybody holding a constitutional office is immune from certain kinds of prosecutions and obviously in some cases also arrest. And in the case of Trump, Trump has been trying to use the immunity clause to prevent any kind of prosecution against him, whether it be, you know, misplacing classified official files, or for that matter, his case of, you know, trying to buy himself out of a sex scandal case, or even right now with the insurrection case that half a dozen or more than half a dozen insurrection case that are still active and still going on. And in all of this he is trying to use immunity clause to, you know, prevent any kind of prosecution to be even begin with not just, you know, prevent himself from being arrested. That is something that will be quite interesting. The appeals court has ruled against him, obviously, but it is for the Supreme Court to decide and we have to wait and see how that is going to pan out again. Obviously, we can obviously expect a favorable ruling for him. It is just the kind of legal definition of the arguments that the Supreme Court, the courts would put forth in giving out their judgments that will be more impactful than, you know, the case at hand. On the other hand, as I said, like the immunity itself still kind of continues in many ways because as long as the case continues, he is pretty much immune from even, you know, the disqualifications that he has been put through. And in many ways, there was a de facto kind of immunity that is afforded to him at this point, which he is using obviously well in his election campaigns, you know, in the current state and we have seen primary after primary where he has used, you know, several clauses as well. There is also the question of whether or not he can, and that comes through, you know, the question of whether or not he can talk about the cases that are already being heard in the indifferent courts in federal courts, especially, and that is also something that has become a central focus right now because it previously has been recommended for, you know, even, you know, making claims against judges during his election campaign. So these are definitely going to have an impact. We have to wait and see because, again, primaries and the cases are going to take months to decide and November is still a long way to go. So a lot of things can happen, but at least in the case of the insurrection, the instruction charges against him, we might have judgment shortly and its implications and the kind of arguments that we will see that can also have an impact in several other of these other cases against him right now. Anish, of course, a million dollar question is that what impact is this having on Donald Trump, the candidate, like you said, the primaries are ongoing in many states, it's a long process, but it's already started. He seems to be steamrolling his way through the campaign, but both at the Republican Party level and at the national level, what impact, is there any impact at all? Definitely, he is using it as a plank right now. He is trying to present and he has always presented himself as this sort of after like figure being hounded by, you know, Democrats and at some level, the political elites. This also halts back to his 2016 election campaign where he has presented himself as the political outsider, you know, and compared to DC insiders. Obviously, that is not true when we look at some of the bad facts, but a lot of people are definitely taking this up. The kind of support that we're seeing within the Republican Party, even in the Nevada primary where he wasn't testing, he wasn't allowed to contest. And, you know, there were no wealthy support to none of the above candidate option, clearly shows that he has significant support within the Republican primaries or the Republican Party as a whole, which has now increasingly become more Trump, more pro Trump than it was say a couple of years ago. But on the other hand, this is how it is going to affect the electorate at large, which is obviously much bigger than the Republican Party. And it's voters, it's something that is something that we need to wait and see because the electorate, as we know, is becoming even more polarized on several of these questions. And polarized elections often have, you know, very, very unpredictable results. And we can't really say how things are going to because we never really expected him to even lose many of us didn't expect him to lose the 2020 elections, because of how polarizing it was at the time and how much support he had, you know, garnered at the time. Nevertheless, he lost that election, and it is still going to be a similar level of unpredictability that we can see in the coming days. But definitely the polarizing factor is huge. And that is, that is, you know, led into pretty much everything media, civil society, pretty much every argument surrounding the election is pretty much about the cases of Trump. And barely, at least in the mainstream media and the mainstream platforms, we do not see much on other issues, other major, you know, data issues that actually affect average Americans. And that is something that is pretty much a direct outcome of these cases in many ways, and how it is being used by the Trump campaign right now. Ranish, thank you so much for that update. We'll come back to you. Definitely an issue that's not going anywhere for many months now. That's all we have in today's Daily Debrief. We'll be back with a fresh episode tomorrow. Meanwhile, do visit our website, peoplesdispatch.org. Follow us on all the social media platforms. And if you're watching this on YouTube, please hit the subscribe button.


So, discussion today is mostly about the new feature which is introduced and the point is this change in the server is mostly internal infrastructure change, so it is not something that you directly feature for end user, but it is the internal component change and enables us to improve minuscule and enhance it in future. So, we will just go through what are the changes which we have done, so this is the same further statement that we this is a current function purpose, so the talk here will be focusing on what is data dictionary, how does it look prior to ADOTO version and what advantages do we get in ADOTO announcements, so what is data dictionary as we all know and we create a table, in a create table definition we provide what is the information you are planning to store, so this first row indicates metadata and these rows are basically data which is stored, so the talk is about how we manage the metadata and the collection of all metadata which a database source is called as data dictionary, now what is the role of data dictionary in a typical database server, so when you fire a query and say select star from employee and the executor basically needs to know whether such a table exists, so that is when the subsystem is contacted, so whether a field exists, whether the store procedure exists, so this is a central repository for all the metadata, so it is a generic picture of how it looks for all the databases, now let us look at how it is managed before ADOTO, so if we look at 5.7 this is before ADOTO, the table information is spread across different flat files, so the columns are stored in FRN, the triggers are stored in .trn and .trg, the schema property like gassets are stored in a flat file called a gopt, so partition information is stored in .par and then the stored procedure metadata is stored in table based myism engine where it is non transactional and there is also a duplicate copy of the table which is stored in inner database, so if you can see the metadata which is required by mySQL is spread over different formats it is not there is no universal way that this is how you store metadata in data, so what is the problem with this, this is how mySQL has been evolved over years and this is what we have right now and what are the problems out of it, so if you see the server has to manage this with implementation specific to files, so if server needs to store tables there is a different module which handles, if server needs to store procedures, users and events there is a different module the server infrastructure has to manage, so there is no common infrastructure to manage the dictionary information in the server. What are the problems because of it and these problems have been observed since like 10 years or more than 10 years and there are numerous bugs and it is almost some of the issues we could not even fix because the dictionary information is all spread, so one of major concerns is information schema queries where the way it works today is when you file information schema query we internally create a temporary table, the server gathers information metadata from a flat file or mySQL table or even in your table fills in and until that user will see the data, so you can just imagine how much time it will take for a single information schema query to work and if your database instance is big the time taken is huge, so this is one of the problem, the second problem is inconsistency due to non transactional storage, so you are creating a stored procedure and it is not transactional and we have fixed many issues around that, there are issues around inconsistency between InnoDB keeping a metadata store and server's metadata like FRM, so you have FRM content which has a column and InnoDB does not have it, so user could end up in such a situation and you cannot control that and this is a so stopper as if server needs this infrastructure they cannot live with varieties of formats as it works now, so this has to change and replication is challenging, so the way details are logged there are issues around that and it is all custom handling that you for each case, so it is not a good architecture and it is difficult to extend, suppose if server needs to show new set of metadata and we have different poly formats the architecture goes more worse, so what is done in 8.0 is we have consolidated all, I mean the metadata spread is not spread anymore and it is stored in InnoDB tables, the server uses InnoDB table to store the metadata of tables, stored procedure, events, ACLs and all that, so it is centralized, so if you look at advantage we all metadata is stored in relational tables now, then it is a single store, so the advantage of it is now it opens a door for more enhancements like a plugin can store metadata now in the dictionary and it is very easy to implement new details which can store metadata, it brings in a new formal interface and yes now information schema gets faster because the old way of working where we need a temporary table is gone, it can just be a view over dictionary tables, this is just the way it works, so if you run information schema query now it just goes through optimizer and it is a view which is just based on the dictionary tables, so this brings us I mean we will just show how what we gain out of it, so as I described this infrastructure is mostly change in the core of my SQL server, so what you see as a end user right now is we get two major things, information schema performance is improved and now DDL operations are more reliable, so it enables door to make DDLs atomic and then we have serialized data information, where you can move a table from all instance to other using serialized dictionary information and we also introduce a new command there for import, so if you have data file, SDA information and if you run import command you just transfer a table from all instance of my SQL to the other and this is another bigger advantage, this enables us to automate data dictionary upgrades, now we have we can number the version, suppose this instance of my SQL has version and if the next release has changed some of the columns internal data structure data dictionary type, it gets automatically upgraded if you start the server with the old database, so that infrastructure and this is also a big thing that there are numerous issues during upgrade, so it was not easy to find, so this brings in the infrastructure for us to simplify things, so this is a comparison of 5.7 how it works and 5.8 how information schema would work, so if you focus on 5.7 if I fire a query I create a temporary table and the temporary table will be filled with information from file system, myajam and you know db table and then rows would be read from temporary table, so this was the architecture in 5.7 and in 8 we do not have anything of this this if I fire an is query it just works as if it is a user query, all the optimization which you get on a user query would be applied for is query, majorly the indexing part the indexes which are installed on the dictionary tables are helping execution of is query whereas here we do not have indexes it just gets versa and versa if your instance is big, so when you benchmark with 5000 tables and if you use information schema query to least ignore db table columns, so what I am doing just is I have 5000 tables and I just want to know all the column name in the instance and the gain we can see here is multiple, so minimum 30 times faster and then in certain scenarios if you increase number of tables in your instance, we have even observed more than 100 times of improvement and for some of the customer this is really a pain point there are customers who was server almost hung on their instance the query just hangs the server freezes, so you can just imagine there are customers with 100 k tables and more and sometimes in several cases they are scared to use schema, information schema that is the feedback we have got. So what the other benefits of server having common data dictionary tables are it provides an automatic ideal where in the replication operations become simple where it is number of issues we have faced due to crash during the ideal being executed because it was not atomic and then as we discussed now data dictionary is version which enables automatic upgrade management and then moving around the file, moving around the table from one instance to other, this was the way we used to do we if you want to move another db table you have to create table then say auto discard and then auto import and now the data auto you just have one command called import and using the serialized information which is already stored the data dictionary will be updated. So yeah, so the reason of the major advantage is we and out of which as I told when I started the talk this introduction of data dictionary is majorly infrastructure change which enables us to advance minus scale further it simplifies things reduces the problem. Yeah, that is all I had. What is you mean by atomic pdl? Yeah, so we have alter suppose if you have alter yeah, so right now if it crashes when alter is in progress in between so alter has various phases now. For example, we create a new table switcher and that is stored in the disk and form a paper and then we move on to a phase where we copy data from the original table into this and if there is a crash we have a temporary table left over. So, there are issues where there is a crash somewhere goes down and then you will see there are several temporary dot afference the hash is clear dot afference present on your disk. So, with this you will you will end up it is like you call it is like a transaction start and stop if transaction is not committed nothing is preserved it is rolled back to the previous. Do you have any questions? No. You have a place where I can. No. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E.


From the CUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to this CUBE Conversation. Going to be digging in talking about how storage in the software world is moving forward to the cloud native containerized environments. Happy to welcome to the program. First time guest, Paul Susman. He is the product manager for InfoScale Storage and Availability products with Veritas. Paul, thank you so much for joining us. Hey, thanks for having me on. I'm really excited to talk about what we're doing for support for containers and Kubernetes. All right, so Veritas, I think most people should be familiar with Veritas when it comes to the storage world, of course, a strong and long history. Why don't you level set us first on InfoScale? I've got way too much history going back to things like Veritas volume manager and the like, but InfoScale today in 2020, how should we be thinking of it and kind of the reach it has out in the marketplace? Yeah, first off, for InfoScale. InfoScale is a product that's used by very critical infrastructure. The top enterprise is the top 11 out of 12 airline reservation systems, the top 19 out of 20 investment banks. These are companies that use InfoScale to drive their business, not just in application but actually keep their business available and operational. So we've had a long legacy. I talked about some of the history. We are formerly known as Storage Foundation. Going back 25 years, Veritas Storage Foundation, as it was known at that time, was one of the first virtualization technologies where we virtualize storage for hard drives, right? That's where the volume manager came in. We really support for many different file systems, both clustered or shared storage, as well as non-shared storage. Came out with support for Unix, Delinix migrations, added support for virtualization technologies and came out with a lot of optimizations for storage efficiency and performance optimizations. We've been building upon that legacy ever since. We've recently come out with a lot of support for AWS cloud as well as Azure cloud and support for SAP HANA, as well as SAP Netweaver for Azure. And we have customers who are now migrating to their SAP environments up into the cloud. So long history of this, we came out with Docker support back in 2016. For Docker containers, we made a bet that Docker was gonna win. We actually built our net backup flex appliances around the Docker platform. Turns out that bet wasn't quite accurate. Turns out Kubernetes won. There's some standards now that have come out around storage and networking interfaces and the world has shifted and is picking up that standardized platform. So we're doing the same. So what we're doing, a couple different things. First off, we are coming out with a persistent storage solution for leveraging the CSI storage interface and we're coming out with a high availability solution which is leveraging some of our legacy code around VCS and around the service group technology we have and intelligent monitoring framework to monitor what's going on inside the container. And we're gonna be adding that technology into InfoScale and releasing it later this year. So that's what we're actively working on. I'm really excited about the fact that we're able to bring forward this legacy that we have where we've done it incredibly well on physical environments and virtual environments and as customers move to the cloud to also support containers. We're seeing that mission critical applications are starting to move to containers. We're having a large number of our customers come to us and saying, what's your roadmap? Where are you going on containers? We've been talking about the Flex appliance on the Netbackup appliance where we've done release support for that years ago and they're looking to actively start moving some of those mission critical apps. But what they're seeing is, is that in the container environment it's missing a lot of the enterprise capabilities that exists on physical platforms. Paul? Yeah. If I could, so I'm glad we got the news in here. Want to help if we can level set our customers a little bit on the marketplace here. So I think back to server virtualization and VMware. We spent about a decade as an industry going from, yeah, it's supported and it works with it to, how do we really optimize it and make sure it is really supported? When you talk about cloud environments, talk about containerization, we've gone through a maturation journey there also in some ways it's gone a little bit faster and we've learned from the past but it has been a journey we've been on. So you talk about Docker, Docker helped really bring containers to the masses and the enterprises especially but maybe give us a little bit as to, you throw it a couple of things like interfaces that are supported to enable storage more, how Kubernetes fits into things. Help us understand how it's not just supporting the environments but making sure that they're optimized and take advantage of the feature functionality that people are looking for and why they go to these containerized and Kubernetes environments. Yeah, that's a great thing. So first off IDC called out that containerization is actually has a potential of replacing what VMware has done around VMs and virtual machines. And that's, I think there's several driving factors for container adoption, right? It comes down to that term cattle not pets which is often used around containers where you're able to manage things at larger scale or a larger number of items. And it comes down to the fact that the container itself is a much smaller image size than a VM, it's a fraction of the size of a VM and that makes it possible to be more agile, makes it possible to have a higher density of containers versus VMs, it makes it easier to manage as well. And because of that, there's faster adoption with developers and speed and efficiency coming about where developers are making changes quicker in a container environment and that's very appealing to customers. So we're seeing a lot of interest in containers. The applications that went there first were applications that were not the typical mission critical application but were more of a web type application that didn't have a dependency on persistent data, the data was temporal. But what we're seeing now is as adoption happens more and more in the container environment and as people realize that there's a lot of advantages to this container versus a VM, they're looking to take those applications and lift and shift them to a container environment to take advantage of those benefits. And so that's what we're seeing right now. Yeah, it's really interesting, right? You know, Paul, when you looked at that virtualization adoption, it was, what a VM really did is it brought the whole operating system along with me. So inside that we have, you know, not only the operating system, but you know, typically one application but could be more as opposed to a container gets closer to that atomic unit of the application or even if it's microservices architecture, it might just be a service inside there.  As you mentioned, often there are different, you know, different type of applications, developers are building new applications using containers. As an example, help us understand, you know, where Veritas and InfoScale fits in, what applications you're supporting today from a containerized environment or are there any things you're seeing as to, you know, hey, this is what you should do in containers and at least for certain enterprise environments, maybe we're not quite ready for certain things here yet. Yeah, so let me take a step back. If you look at the maturity and the technology shift, in my opinion, we're at today with containers where we were early on with VMs. So early on with VMs, a lot of people were saying that those virtual machines, they're not really suitable for production code, they're not suitable for mission critical applications. You really should run those on dedicated hardware. And what we've seen is actually a shift in VMs and people run pretty much everything on VMs now. It's your first platform by default, instead of a physical server. And now the same thing is kind of happening with cloud as well. In containers, what we're seeing is that the early adopters, they weren't looking for those mission critical or enterprise data requirements, things like security and scale and performance. They were okay with the status quo, but as people are starting to move things that drive their business or they're gonna run their business on, they really need those requirements. They need the same level set of enterprise capabilities that exists today on VMs and exist today on physical environments or even in the cloud. But a lot of capabilities in the cloud are, it's very secure, it's very resilient. The data is very durable. Those capabilities exists there, but on containers, they've been lacking until recently. And so what we're doing is we're trying to bring those same capabilities that our customers are used to for those customers as they're moving those mission critical applications to containers. Excellent, so let's talk about the services that InfoScale offers. When we first moved to cloud, there were some that thought, oh, hey, wait, maybe I don't need to think about things like high availability and data protection. I'll just architect the cloud that way. I think we know from like security standpoint, it's a shared responsibility model that everybody understands. When it comes to containerization also, I'm often architecting things differently. So I have to think about things a little bit different, but I don't think it removes the need for some of the services that we typically see from solutions like you offer from Veritas. Maybe give us a little bit of understanding is it the same, is it a little bit different and what is needed in today's new architecture? Yeah, that's a great question. So if you look at containers and start reading a lot of the documentation around Kubernetes, what they claim and what they point out is that the underlying storage is responsible for the high availability of the storage. It's not the requirement of the application. It's not the requirement of the IT administrator. It's they push it back on the storage. And if you look at the way storage is used or consumed with containers, it's really there's two types of storage. There is block level storage, which is presented from the disk array. The challenge with block level storage by itself is that there's no data management, right? There, what ends up happening is that the database does the data management and the database in order to take advantage or compensate for that lack of data management. Often what happens is the database is oversubscribed, so you present too much data for the database and you end up wasting space. The other side of things, the common use cases around files and the most common use case or the most way that most people use with containers is actually leveraging NFS. NFS was never designed for mission critical applications. It's really designed for very small IO and it will guarantee or maintain right consistency. But if you have multiple applications accessing the same share, who knows who's going to actually win. Somebody will win and it might not be who you want to win. So you have data corruption or data integrity issues with NFS, not to mention that you have huge performance challenges with NFS. Again, was never designed for mission critical application. And so those are areas that our customers have looked to us in the past and look to us right now to present storage, which is very high performance and very highly available and is often replicated across the metro or across geo locations, across availability zones to other data centers so that you have multiple redundant copies and so that you just don't lose data. That's something that we've done really well with InfoScale. And we've done that for applications that require shared resources and we've done that for applications that require their own repository, their own data store. So it's an opportunity for customers to use or have another storage which is persistent, highly available and higher performance for use with their containers other than NFS or block storage. Excellent. We know that the storage we always used to joke of all is that the only constant is change. In the cloud native world, we know that accelerating change is the norm. Give us the final takeaway when I think of InfoScale for Kubernetes and containers, how should we think about Veritas and what differentiates you from really the rest of the marketplace? Yeah, if you look at that, it's really simple. I mean, we have a solution which works very well for storage, very high performance, very highly available, scales really well. We are gonna be releasing a plugin for Kubernetes that will install on storage nodes and make that storage persistent and available to the application running up as a container. We're also taking the technology that we've done around our availability suite and we are taking some of the technology forward into containers. Now, understanding that Kubernetes does the orchestration, our key differentiation is that we're going to be monitoring the dependencies of what's critical for that application. All the mount points, the network interfaces, all the different processes would make up that critical application. We'll be monitoring those applications actually inside the container and then working with Kubernetes to collaborating as far as orchestration goes. So we'll tell Kubernetes when it needs to restart the container or restart a pod. Lots of advantages come with the solution and the way we're building it. Again, it integrates with Kubernetes, we monitor what's going on inside the container and we'll notify Kubernetes of an event change and we'll do that instantaneously. Kubernetes looks at the pod, they don't look at inside the container, right? They don't look at the processes, they don't look at the mount points. So the pod might be available, but the container itself, you might have lost a process, you might have lost one of the containers, one of your dependencies might have gone away and we're taking that same availability, offering that we've done very well with in the physical environment and cloud and virtual environments and bringing that forward to containers. Excellent, Paul, any minimum requirements? You know, Kubernetes of course, being open source there, there are dozens of distributions out there. So if I choose, you know, any of the native services from the public cloud providers were from my vendor of choice, I don't have to be like on 1.16 or 1.17 to get this. What are any considerations there? Well, the latest version I think is 1.18, they're coming out with 1.19 soon, Kubernetes, but Kubernetes in my view, they came out with the standards. They came out with a standard network interface and standard storage interface. We're leveraging those standards and we're building a plugin towards that standard. That same plugin will be used in Kubernetes and OpenShift and VMware, as well as all the different cloud container offerings. So our intention is to support all those. We'll be supporting Kubernetes on day one, out of the box, four Linux platforms with all the same storage capabilities that we have with InfoScale and with the same agent framework and monitoring framework that we have with InfoScale for availability as well. Excellent. Well, Paul Sossman, thank you so much. It's been great to watch the maturation of the storage environments in the container and Kubernetes world. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. Thanks for having me. All right, I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE.


uh animal crossing no it was it's yeah sorry she's easier to play than trump anyway that's funny very good very good um cool so um we are live thanks everybody for joining another episode of the open j.s foundations cross project council meeting today is the last uh tuesday of march uh in the year 2021 we're working off of issue 737 um i see another attendee waiting oh i will unless maybe uh he was already promoted because i saw him on the list um yeah thanks everybody for joining uh don't forget to add your name to the uh the dock which i will paste in there and uh help take notes we've got a small crew today hustle through the agenda and then uh see what happens from there um do we have any announcements start there we've got a few and so uh tomorrow as an fyi i this will be super fun the web driver io team is going to do one of our um not we cannot q and a sessions we can't call it a ma because a ma's are this trademark term apparently a ma so that's true reddit has the trademark on on on a ma or ask me anything so we have q and a session we bring brandage uh and with the web driver io team they've got some exciting announcements that's tomorrow uh wednesday at nine a.m pacific um and so we'd love for you to join in listen and um ask questions and that kind of thing um other uh exciting announcements we want to say congratulations to nvm on their latest release good job Jordan and then um we also announced some exciting discounts on the new uh node training and certifications um well they're not new but uh there's some new features to that uh platform and celebrate where we've got some pretty deep discounts on the certification uh training materials and tests and uh you know check that out if you are so down um yeah and to add to that they're they're they have a bunch of free tickets to the environments to kind of try it out and get used to it before you actually do your training which i think was um a learning from uh people's uh experience you know their suggestions so um definitely check that out yep um let's see other sort of general stuff we're really uh planning forward on our um plan to announce open js world speakers really soon and so that should happen sometime next week we're really excited about the the talks we have so far um and so just reminder to register for the event if you haven't already that's on June 2nd um and i feel like there was something else we had a book club and the book club was really fun and i'm only saying that because there were people that said they were going to come to book club and they didn't make it and i'm not saying who that is but i'm looking at you in my zoom chat um we'd love for to do that again so please come on over to our channel wait who was that apologizing because i i think that was supposed to be me too that was definitely directed at toby i wasn't gonna call it out but i'm glad someone else apologized as long as there's more than one of us i think we're in the clear so uh we're looking for the next we're looking for the next book is like kind of the the thing and we're sort of uh chatting about that sorry jokes today uh so that's all the announcements i have the end well i dropped a link to the uh nojs uh tweet about the uh certifications and stuff too if anybody wants to help promote it or just find out more information it's a tweet read so um you know there are a few links in there for them oh no that's not the tweet thread that's a different one uh but that's still i think the right tweet right yeah yeah about the trainings um i guess i will say uh because i just confused myself that there is the uh node uh survey uh is happening um i think it's still uh happening i think it's still um you know open uh so you know the first 10 years were pretty good and we're looking for the next 10 years um and and there's a group of us who are trying to plot that out figure out what's important and stakeholders and and and you know constituencies priorities things like that so if anybody has um you know any input on that any thoughts about that feel free to take the survey uh here in this group or anybody watching live uh check it out um so that's another announcement um cool uh with that we can jump into um the agenda i suppose is uh was there any um sorry that was a bad page reload um was there uh is there anything from the board i mean i guess there's nobody here from the board but um i don't know if there was a meeting last week there was there was a meeting on friday obviously our our uh two cpc uh board director reps are not present today um so we'll have to get an update from them next time sounds good all right cool so if we are to jump into the agenda the first issue is actually from the summit repo issue 306 i think that this was maybe talked about um a couple of weeks ago um and i actually i commented here but i wasn't in that meeting so i don't know the conversation but i grabbed from the notes to drop it in there because we were talking about it in the um the no-jazz tooling um um meeting um joey you ran it last time did you do you have anything to um share on that front yeah so in our last meeting and after the discussion with the group president uh you know became pretty clear there was consensus for us to uh not plan on running any kind of conjoined event with the june 2nd open j s world and instead sort of keep the conversation open for potentially doing something else in the fall um there are a couple of like lf events that are more general like um open source summit north america and that kind of thing that are that are are still on for in person um and there was a conversation about whether that's something we might want to arrange um like a meet up there if there were going to be a chunk of folks who would be planning to attend one of those events um but effectively uh i think our our group agreed uh last week without necessarily memorializing this anywhere that we wouldn't do it with open j s world on june 2nd so um i'm not sure what we need to do to sort of update this ticket probably just maybe comment as such that we're keeping the option open for something in the fall that could be in person but but uh yeah yeah yeah we can we can comment on the issue um and just maybe keep it in mind um and the tooling group we were thinking we might do something in the fall uh but i don't know if we were thinking in person or or just online and i i wonder i think that the collab summit is a great thing uh the in-person ones were really uh effective the virtual ones perhaps less so but maybe that just presents an opportunity to figure out different ways to approach it and i'm even wondering if it should just be more you know focused one day things with each group you know like the tooling group could just you know plan their own dang summit online for now and you know spend a day working stuff but um anyway it's something i'm thinking about but i don't really have any actions or uh direction either could be an interesting um thing for just putting this in our in a future pocket like an interesting discussion to have at one of our working group sessions like if we were to take a topic of let's reimagine collab summits in a post-covid world what does that look like that could be interesting yeah i agree i agree um cool i had another thought but i think i just lost it so it doesn't matter um cool all right well we'll just kind of leave that where it is for now and um at some point we can take the agenda label of it but uh something to think about next on uh today's agenda uh private slack channel for no j s build team uh machine management closed since answered well no a closing since answered uh was not actually closed so i will close this issue um looks like everything is sorted so uh that seems fine cool closing that issue moving on uh this is actually the thing that i was thinking about and then lost it um travel fund allocation for 2021 um i don't know if this was discussed uh last we did discuss it last time okay um uh what michael sharing with us was this had been brought to the attention of the board that had to do further discussing about it and come back to us okay i'll come back was some movement around it yeah yeah okay um the gist is that the travel fund was uh diminished uh uh i don't want to say i don't want to be hyperbolic a lot um and the thinking is that traveling by two thirds might be yeah i was going to say drastic but i don't want to be um um it was two comments that were made of one by me suggesting that the money um saved that way should be reinvested in other um related efforts such as diversity and inclusion which are tightly related to this fund and i think um uh tyranny brought up the fact that many people had complained that in the rest of the world people were actually traveling now or were able to and so it felt very um american well western centric to have that perception yeah and also who knows we're not even halfway through the year things are gently improving um will there be more travel on the second half of the year you know what i mean it depends on what continent you are in but uh definitely i'm hearing really good things from north america right now less so from europe honestly i don't know well they're warning about a fourth wave here so we'll see we'll see all right well i guess there's not much to take from there sorry go ahead yeah for what is worth at microsoft we still have a no travel no participation in online events worldwide just as um so of kind of respect of how things are going in other countries uh so we don't want to start doing things in the us if things improve if in other countries are nothing going okay i think so we are in a no travel situation for now yeah okay that's uh good perspective thank you and you know i can report that that this is under discussion with the board committees um but i'm not sure what the exact status is um other than to say they were keen and happy to take it up and figure something out so yeah the response seemed to be rather positive that was my understanding too i'm sorry if that might that didn't come out in my summary cool well we will uh defer this issue uh till next time and see if there's any sort of updates moving on the um this is uh issue 711 um this is uh renaming master branches i think that the rename has largely happened and if i remember correctly scrolling down suggestion to email folks i'm pretty sure i saw that email go out um confirm that for me jewelry yep i did great so do we think i mean i guess we can check off the standard commission communication channels encourage other folks uh possibly create a dedicated place which i think we decided would just be the info channel um and eventually address issues uncovered by projects implementing this change which i think is if you say eventually then maybe that just needs to be a new issue uh if things come up or uh you know multiple things does that seem fair we can check all the boxes on this uh issue description and then call this done yeah i think so i'm wondering if how to handle issues like this we would sort of want to have a look in uh you know maybe like three month or quarter or like something to just check that um we can actually really close this and there's like no pending issues and and like the you know pound info i don't i don't really know how to handle this i mean we can just close it and say it today or we can sort of like set us set ourselves a reminder to actually really close it in a little while i'm i don't know what you all think about this i'm wondering if anybody has started any kind of like tracking right like it's we have a finite number of projects it would be you know probably a 45 minute task to look at all the different um project orgs we have and see which ones have updated um there that's a nice little script yeah or yeah 45 minute task ish so yeah or five hours writing a script your pick five hours updating ruby this morning and that's why i stopped using ruby um um uh that's a good question um what i've seen in the node space is that a lot of projects have have switched but some haven't and that's because of uh infrastructure and whatnot um so yeah i don't know do we have a list of the orgs of every um open js foundation project someone okay if if you share that with me i will write the script right uh michael talking about making this sorry just really we're not talking about making this mandatory right this is just we're encouraging an audit yeah yeah to see who who has and you know if you know if uh there's a chance somebody stuck on something or you know whatever right right cool oh that's the fact that you bring that up jordan makes me think that this is does it would it feel like this yeah nvm is still called master because i don't want to ping 300 pull requests with an update and so on and like have a bunch of in-flight maintainers or contributors having to like update their local repos at some point i will want to change it but like that's the only reason i'm i haven't bothered and if at if nvm kept popping up in a list of projects that haven't done something yet then that feels a bit shaming slash coercive right that was my question yeah i wasn't i'm sorry i wasn't trying to actually ask whether you you know the project that you were responsible for had done it oh yeah i mean i'm happy to use that yeah yeah no sorry like i didn't really um no it's just like just the way you brought it up felt oh this um um the skin feel that way and i actually do uh do want to take a step back if i think that feedback is valuable and important i do want to step back and doing like a fun uh three hour script exercise that potentially has uh human downsides feels like a different project suddenly so i think this is an important well i'm more i more think that the the thing that's useful is the making sure every foundation project maintainer is aware of the desire for the shift if necessary is informed of the reasons why it's important and if their reasons for pushback are non pragmatic or technical in nature then to avoid potential uh turbulence around those topics it's probably worth arranging private discussions to educate those maintainers we're unrelated to whether they actually make the change or not but once someone is informed and philosophically aligned if there remain technical barriers then it seems like it's just up to them and there's nothing the foundation has to or should do to accelerate that unless they ask for the help of course and that's just sort of the the general place i'm coming from i don't know if everyone agrees at least it's uh well very clearly and well articulated and i think it's important to hear that thank you um it looks like uh node you know i need to go through this whole issue but it looks like um you know there are um some issues and also some folks who are just not into it but i but i went there partially toby because um uh michael wrote a script that will go through all the repose in an org and um uh you know check the branches so i thought if you were going to write something that might be either useful or it might already be written depending on how far you're going to go so the last thing i posted was michael's comment which has the the script in it cool all right so we'll um leave this one for now uh i will close this uh our issue though and um or or do we think we should leave this open for now i'm torn we should close it and i mean the we've we've accomplished the tasks that we outlined in that specific issue and and folks here have raised great points about um other additional steps to take right at this moment and i think we can possibly close it and find other things to support um this whoops i commented without closing there we go um cool so that one's closed um next up is uh issue 699 this is the uh d&i uh improving diversity and inclusion uh issue um i'm not sure what we have for updates on this toby do you have any thoughts jory um well i can speak to a very specific sub sub component of um this project which is that the last couple of working group meetings now for the cpc we've tackled um a specific set of uh changes that we want to propose to the cpc for the code of conduct and handling code of conduct reports and that task is currently with um sarah divi and myself to memorialize some of the working groups and consensus agreement in in their working session on what the proposal should look like uh that's in review should go to the um coc working group team those folks who've been brainstorming on this um this week we'll have a follow-up meeting um to discuss and then bring that to um a cpc for uh for discussion and hopeful ratification um so that yeah i'm yeah i'm sorry to interrupt you um i think that we've been doing two separate things in the working sessions and i can see how the code of conduct and moderation work sort of could apply to the d&i effort uh but i've been thinking about them differently so i don't i mean separately i should say uh thank you for that update but there is is there any um uh any sort of updates on the d&i uh work that we were doing yes i will take um um the action item to organize a meeting um was folks that were interested in order to discuss the survey that we want to do and see how to move forward with that um we've discussed a number of different options around this um and or um well still looking at like different options and on as a second as a second part to that i'm also going to organize um a meeting with folks at the w3c who are interested about this issue too and looking at also working on a survey to see how we can synergize uh this this these you know two organizations one thing essentially to do the same work great thank you uh so it's like no sorry please no i was just gonna say what we'll do we'll we'll try to pull a meeting together that's uh a non-working session meeting just sort of uh yeah we'll figure out a time to get together definitely let me know yeah i'll set that up um and share it in in slack cool thank you toby thank you jory or should i say jory i see your exclamation point sorry uh cool last issue on the agenda is um this uh dcocla stuff um jory i don't know if this was talked about last week or if there's any sort of update here i know we were kind of waiting on something it was um so just uh to and i think brian updated the issue with the latest um so as an fyi brian warner has been working with the pro bot dco folks um to implement some changes and some features to pro bot dco that will work more um fluidly with our systems um and they've been making some progress but running into little minor issues um here and there that's slowing things down obviously the pro bot dco team is uh it's an open source project and they're all they all have other jobs and that sort of thing so there's no timetable exactly uh but we we are making progress and um hope to have uh hope to have it soon enough as a reminder uh our projects are able to use whatever dco or cla tool they um they use dco or cla if they like or nothing and there's a couple options um for each so we the these are just options cool cool cool cool uh great that concludes our agenda doesn't it um i guess the one thing uh that we should address is next week's working session um i don't know if we are doing uh coc stuff there moderation uh jory you've got comments yes i have comments i have thoughts um so uh you know i think it'd be great if we could maybe plan a couple of weeks of working group meetings out um in in a bit of an advance because um we've got so many different things we want to make progress on um we have uh tech strategy work that i think would be dope we've got j slandia stuff that would be dope we've got obviously the dei um and the coc stuff um there's just there's a ton and um i think what's working well at the moment is for their kind of like the more general group of cpc attendees to come into the working session have a great brainstorm or kind of proposal slash idea generation process in our um working group and then spin smaller teams of two or three folks out to go like you know build the thing that the working group sort of um consensed upon consensed sure that's a word i like that yeah um and then and then bring that back and so i think that lets us kind of free up working group meetings instead of say dedicate like three months in a row just to one issue which may not interest everybody so yeah that makes sense so what um do you have a sense of what we should work on next and are you it sounds to me like you're saying we should plan um to kind of alternate it's not the right word but just have action items out of each one and then can kind of rotate the more and have progress come through yeah yeah um and and i think it'd be cool like so we know because we're good at calendars so speciality and we're so not good at calendars um but we know that like you know the on on uh on the sixth so that's next week and on the 20th you know we can we can kind of pick a couple of topics for say april may you know for uh let's work on tech strategy let's work on on April 6th meeting or let's work on yeah so one thought that's coming to mind and anybody feel the interject if they have something they want to add here but um maybe we should have an issue for each of these like we have for the the dni one um and if we if we have some work that's a small group can go and do they could report it back to this to the cpc meeting uh because you know like today we probably have a good 20 minutes left over that could be a good chunk of time for an update on on any of that sort of work um so we can have a meeting focus on it figure out what the action items are people can go off and do them and then we could report back to the cpc meeting on any progress there if we want it um so i mean that makes sense to me uh jory uh and everyone what do do we want to pick something to pick up next or do we think that we need to touch on something that we're already working on for next week i don't want to over engineer it well i was going to say that uh i think jslandia hasn't been discussed in a while and it might be good to talk about it and i'll lose it i don't want to over engineer it but maybe having a rotation would be good kind of like what jory said um or maybe these things need to spin off into their own working groups and we can i don't know now i'm over engineering again i was just going to nominate jslandia for next Tuesday so i agree with you on both of those i think jslandia would be good for next week partially thinking about the upcoming events and just making sure that we're ahead of the game and can you know maximize any sort of promotion but also fun you know we can have fun with it and do fun things and whatnot um i i do think that maybe some of these things would not be bad to have its own meeting like toby had mentioned earlier you know the the dei work uh maybe that just kind of has its own meeting and we sort of work through that with that cadence uh those are my two thoughts i'd be down for doing jslandia next week um because while one of the kind of foundation to do is a mvp of like the passports um and and i'm confident we will have something to show you next week and we can brainstorm on that and cool sounds fun great does somebody want to take the action item of like creating an issue and throwing maybe a couple of agenda items in that or something things that we would expect to discuss or work on sure great uh do we also want to plan for the the working session beyond that yes okay you you had mentioned tech strategy yes that's what i would like to do next after okay sold what is that even um so just because uh this this is sort of like a like uh what's the word i want to use this is a hangover discussion but that sounds like it's been drinking a lot and that's not the case um carry over carry over this is side tracking really badly oh whatever that is i know um i apologize uh so a carry over conversation um that i think we've been having since um off and on since before the merger which is like you know how do we think about telling the story of like the technologies in our foundation how do we think about um uh like catering to or and describing um perhaps the types of projects that are going to be a great fit for the foundation um that kind of thing and it's always one that we kind of hit when we get a new project application um and we kind of go oh well this you know we've got this rubric but there's also an element of like feeling to it and i think it'd be great to maybe define that a little bit further that's something that i know um uh robin would value too that makes a bunch of sense it makes sense but it also makes me wonder like are there tech strategy reasons that we would not accept the project i mean i guess this would be what we would discuss yeah i mean i don't know yeah yeah i mean obviously it's saved that thoughtful later joe okay um okay i mean i'm game i uh this makes sense to me and i think um it kind of raises some questions for me um cool do you it sounds to me and i don't want to volunteer you jory but it sounds to me like you've got some thoughts on this so would you like to create that issue as well and i like making issues for people that's you know calendars and issues that's what we're good at yeah good at that yeah if i may and if you're in the calendar and issue space um i actually think that what we have for amp that i don't know where it comes from i'm wondering if it doesn't come from here actually works really well like one issue was all of the meetings that we're going to have planned and the topics that are going to be discussed um are you for real right yeah of course i am of course you are yeah god damn it but yeah you know that's a good idea it's like i've seen that before somewhere i don't know it comes from here doesn't it i don't know it comes from the amp i thought are you talking about doing the thing that we i did for the amp thing but that yeah yeah okay but that doesn't um yeah regardless i don't know where it comes from it's just it works really well it's very useful i like it i want more of that and everything that was okay i will i'll actually sure yes i'll take some time i'll do that i'm glad that uh you know that that they pay you jory so thank you but also i'm glad about that um let me know how i can help to you know consider me a resource you know where to find me got it um cool so that's like two working sessions we're thinking about is that good enough for now um and the dei stuff will spin off into a separate meeting its own meeting um and then we'll just see in terms of this the coc uh and moderation work we'll we'll wait for more uh progress there and then go from there i'm letting someone into the meeting paris that sounds good okay all right so good that's four things that's great nice um cool what else do we want to talk about today anything sorry paris you joined right as we were reaching end of our our business cool um no i can't think of anything uh i'm sorry that's okay we should um one thing that comes to mind is like incubating um you know i know we have a couple of projects there right do we do yeah um divya and i are going to talk to one of our incubating projects native script next week um they have a bunch of cool stuff coming up that they're going to be announcing and so they've been busy busy but um that's a uh hot potato uh and then um other stuff so it's just you know heads up in fyi the um standards working group has after talking to a whole bunch of projects and evaluating all of the options at our last meeting we elected to focus on two strategies the first one being uh the uh educational resources and curation for people who are hoping to on board into what mic champion is coined standards culture which i think is like it's a great term um so we're looking for uh resources right now to consider as part of that sort of set of curated materials um and that's an issue on the on the standards repository and also in the slack um so if you have some stuff that you like please share it there um and then the second strategy is on um discussing and and providing more of a community forum for uh understanding and providing feedback and that sort of thing on um on would be proposals at at tc 39 or within the wicg or what wg so uh we're also going to be brainstorming how to tackle that process um and if you're interested in that join us cool um i'm reminded of a potential calendar conflict for next week is that right yes um it looks like we do have a conflict for the standards working group and the cpc working meeting so we will um we will adjust in our standard slack group we'll adjust i'm sure um i see sarah has gone off video but i i wondered if we should double back on any of the uh board related stuff if there were any updates or anything to talk about there i turn on the video and kept the mic um yeah i can see uh michael isn't here today so uh what i can share is we had our board meeting last week uh i thought there was a lot of really interesting stuff shared by um uh rachel around growth with our newsletter and uh growth of the newsletter did we lose you sarah you froze you can you can turn off video if you want um exciting news um other board related i don't think there's any other board related news uh uh that we haven't shared here uh just um the summit approaching and planning for the summit and things like that the open j s world event yes great um and then i don't know if if there's any takeaways from anything regarding the travel fund i know we kind of touched on it briefly before you you got here but uh there's anything to share there let me know uh yeah i don't think there's anything officially decided to share there yet but uh i'll follow up next meeting cool sounds good thank you great um yeah rachel we we touched on some announcements earlier that are um in the notes but if you have anything uh you want to add before we wrap up just let me know um i only had the three um congrats to nvm on their release um we have a webinar a q and a tomorrow with web driver um and note certification and training big sale those were the three things that i had great yeah that's what we talked about earlier okay good good good uh great all right well um i can give every back everybody back 10 minutes if uh if they'd like and we can call it a wrap cool that's that's the sound all right thanks everybody cheers bye y'all


All right everybody, I'm really excited today to bring you a brand new video here on the Sony PVM 2950Q and This is personally one of my favorite monitors of all time as far as a monitor. That's going to do primarily 240p or 480i video and It just does an excellent job of processing that and I recently had an opportunity to get one of these again in my shop And I have done videos before on, you know, the performance of this monitor as well as you just some overall I did do a calibration video too, which I'll link to that playlist This video monitor is great for things like Tate because you can turn it on its sides. It's also very large and Actually the reason I have this last photo here This is the Philadelphia Museum of Art and if you'll remember the 2950 I recently or I've repaired previously and Restored actually is at that museum now So today's actually this monitor belonged to a friend of mine named Sean and So we're going to take an initial look here Sean got this off of our government deals Website that I featured, you know a couple videos ago and market watch And I wanted to show you just how this looks to begin with you can see right here and I'll go through and probably pause this video as I'm going and Preferably I'm going to just pull myself out of the picture for a moment And then we'll go through this calibration screen without me there. There we go and When you look here, you'll notice first off that we do have a slight screen tilt Where the squares are tilting towards the right side a little bit now? thankfully that can be corrected in a service menu, but you'll also notice some screen bowing and A little bit of linearity issues here as well. This is just primarily due to the age of the monitor It's not really been calibrated within any of the last few Years at all. So I especially I can't tell that this is really ever been calibrated now Sean did take a risk and bought this monitor as is pretty much nothing else done besides a power test on it and His auction wound up going to about $1,300 from what I can remember for this monitor He did look out as I said because it works perfectly It just needs some adjustment and we're going to go inside and make sure we do a good cleaning on it I'm also going to service the boards inside. We'll go through replace a bunch of capacitors And we'll also test the capacitors and to get started. We're going to remove this outer shell now the outer shell It's separated into two pieces similar to like the 20 30s So there are quite a few screws that hold it into place definitely more than the 20 30s I think there's about 12 total, but just slowly pull that out And the whole chassis then and we'll stay hopefully in there but it's just slid into the front half of the screen bezel down here and that's pretty much it for the back shell now you have access to the boards and The inside but the first thing we need to take a look at is just look how nasty it is inside I can tell that it's probably never been opened since it was originally put together. There's a lot of dust just built up back here and Really if you don't have experience with Servicing your CRT. It's still a good idea to go in here and try to clean off dust If that's the last thing you're going to do is just go in and you know Just want to look at the inside of it and do a visual inspection That's what I always start with and then you can also see some of the areas that really need to be cleaned Especially up here around this anode cap We've got a lot of dust built up and some of the grease is exposed over here But a real thick layer of dust on the back of that tube That will definitely be cleaning up as we go along today now Some of the things you'll notice this monitor does have a Unique yoke set up where there's actually a couple of separate yoke boards here one We will not be removing and then you've got the neck board That's not very standard for many PVMs or BVMs really and then if we get over here We've got a power supply right here on the left. It's also very dirty and That's another good thing to get in here and clean if you have compressed air Or if you have any type of just brush that I mean a soft bristle brush like a paintbrush or something But the first thing I need to do is discharge this PVM So let's just hang on here for one second And I want to get in the picture and just let you know that this is something that you should not Really do if you don't know what you're doing just you know Watch many times if you've never discharged a CRT You definitely don't want to do it the way I'm gonna do it right here. This is the way though that the Sony manual Recommends you do it because it limits the ability or limits the risk of damaging the back of the tube However, it is a little bit trickier and a little bit more dangerous or difficult to do so Just heads up this part right here is something you can slow down and watch you can go back and watch any of the videos about safety and Discharging properly, but this method I'm gonna walk you through real quickly here is the method that Sony would recommend and to do that we're gonna Go ahead and roll our footage here and what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna clash now again the monitor has been turned off it's been unplugged of course and I'm gonna pinch the anode cap together and Make the anode cap. There's a there's a metal Prong in there that I'm pinching together against the side of the tube so that I can get the cap off there and Now you can see it's very very difficult to do it sometimes like this But it might look like I'm being forceful But I'm just being forceful in the right way because I don't want to damage anything But you could see you once you get those prongs to come together You can pull it out and again, this is probably the first time this has been discharged since 1994 so then you just turn around and tap it against the metal frame and that is the way Sony recommends that you normally should discharge the the Anode cap from the tube initially because again, they don't want you to damage this ring back here by Sliding a discharge tool in then afterwards you can go in and use your discharge tool and still discharge the tube Because no matter what there still could be energy in there and then energy can build back up in the anode cap so might as well just tap it a few times as well and So that again is the recommended way by Sony, but it's definitely not the safest way you could do it So the next thing I'm going to do is I'm going to start working on the boards by Getting the main chassis and all the other boards out of the way first and to do that I'm going to do two things. I'm going to slide that board out And at the same time I'm going to pull off this main neck board Because it is all primarily connected together at one. There are a couple of connections towards the front of the monitor That's where the Degas coil and power buttons and the yoke connects straight into the chassis there And so it's real simple to get it back together because again the connectors are all Individualized and they're not they're not Similar any to each other that there's specific spots they can go in the first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to recap This v-board which is only on this 2950 and these larger monitors with this special yoke There were I think you know six to eight caps on this special board here But I wanted to show you that this one If you do if you do work on these older boards these older Pre-mid 90s and early 90s circuit boards and even earlier than that are going to be a little bit more fragile and I had an instance here where I had a couple of traces burn off on this board that I had to go in and repair And you'll see that at the end But those are the caps right there. Those are the old caps. So it's seven caps that were in there so we took those caps out and then Went in and installed a new cap kit of replacement caps for all of these and Of course, I like to go in and work on Using flux always it just seems to make everything work better when you're trying to solder and use flux again watch your temperature so that you don't burn up your pads and Also make sure that you have the polarity Matched in the proper spots there when you're going through and recapping anything But it's a pretty straightforward job. It's it's again. You've just got to watch to not Hold on to your traces too long and end up burning them I do like to go back through a couple times and just quickly try to reflow the solder and then generally after that I finish up with everything at the end I'll come back in there and clean off the remaining flux with ice propyl alcohol and that can be done, you know with wipes or With a brush similar to like a toothbrush like I've done before But then after all that's been done you can what I decided to do was just go in here and then clean the rest of this So there was a lot of again build up back here dust debris and Just left over Years of built up just you know grime So I like to take an old paintbrush that's soft bristled and get in there and knock all that dust off it's not going to be dangerous to do that back here when everything's turned off like it is and It gets into those crevices really well without really moving things too much You don't want to move a lot of this stuff around Something else you want to be mindful of is this black masked area in this Back of the CRT where it's got a special paint that you'll notice is slightly duller and You don't want to rub that paint very hard or it'll flake off and there's a possibility You'll have beams of light going straight through where you can see through the entire back of the tube but this is that whole area cleaned up and pretty much repaired and you're noticing here my two yellow jumpers that I had to make my repairs on therefore my Repairs I had to do on the circuit board where it was just too old and fell kind of apart on me there So now we're going to jump into the other circuit boards here and get to repairing them And we're going to go through and I didn't mention this before but I did go through and test all the capacitors After I removed them But what I want to start with on this whole board is the power supply unit on the side Because this one most likely has the capacitors that have been exposed to the most amount of heat and Especially around these large heat sinks. I'm wondering if how those are holding up after this many years of Age and use so we'll get this power supply over here onto the bench and we'll get to work on it and it's Again, just a pretty straightforward circuit board the way I like to Work on these is again just start with one section start pulling the capacitors out Make sure you've got your listed capacitors that you're replacing ahead of time And even if you want to go ahead and check and make sure that your List matches what you is actually on the board there But prior to pulling it just to make sure everything matches up so that you're replacing the capacitors with the proper ones and Because sometimes Even if you get into manuals you'll notice that the capacitors might not match exactly what the manual has said on Some of these it does happen or it might not tell you whether There's a bipolar capacitor or anything like that So but it's always important to make sure that you're replacing capacitors with good capacitors and the proper ones too Or you'll have real trouble. So again, I'm gonna be using my Meter here that I have not done a video on this meter But it probably will eventually once I get to using it some more but I'm just testing the overall cap health on a lot of these and Checking out, you know, how much usage is coming off a lot of these capacitors on this power supply board I've been documenting it and just like You know, I was hoping that I would be able to find some capacitors on this board that would be falling out of spec more Just to be able to document some Use something that was You know happening in a specific spot similar to what had happened in the D series The only issue was it just appeared that this particular 2950 had really little relatively no hours of Use put on it I mean probably somewhere less than 5,000 hours Because all the capacitors on this board and the prior board that I had just kept before this You saw the V board they were all within 90 percent of their taught you know spec'd reading and The specifications for the actual monitor is 20 percent on all the capacitors So there was still a lot of life left on a lot of these capacitors and they're even though the There's not really a big advantage to change in them except for Knowing that the age of the capacitor itself is still Older at almost, you know, it's from 1994 So we're talking about 25 years 26 years old these capacitors are But they're still hanging in there and working well But just to make things, you know more easy on Sean We're going to go ahead and replace it with better capacitors that were them were in here For the most part we'll either get the same or better because this monitor Didn't have as high quality of capacitors in it as the BVMs do they did a lot of these capacitors only rated to 85 degrees Celsius and They still were mostly nice brands, but at the same time there weren't as many of them that were rated for a hundred five degrees Celsius So we stepped up and increased that Temperature rating and went for the higher quality caps when we could that would have had, you know a listed higher life span Than just an 85 degree Capacitor would have had so that is one advantage. Now one thing I didn't I haven't shown this before I do like to do this more or every time I do repairs like this and that's check my continuity of all my Solder points so after I go in and replace the capacitors I'll go in with a continuity meter and just check for continuity on all my solder points After I've cleaned it and it's ready to go back in the monitor that way to just quality it's a quality control check and It avoids me having to worry about any problems or eliminates any potential issues that could come up When I've reinstalled everything and I'm trying to get the monitor to work And I don't want to have any unexpected issues come up So now I'm going to jump into the regular boards on The rest of the monitor and real quickly. I'm not going to go through and show you recapping this entire Chassis, but I did try to keep it Held up for example the way it is right now a lot just to keep it together for the most part when I was servicing it And that's kind of just take advantage of the plastic and the shielding around it to hold it in place But a lot of capacitors in this one I mean it's it's a big job and it's kind of getting back to that thing where if there's not an issue This is just a little bit of an advice on this one if there's not an issue with your 2950 Don't be so concerned with recapping the actual main chassis. You could go in and cap the Sporadic boards pretty easily you can get that power supply out of there easily you can get the neck boards Recapped easily, but not so much on the main boards. You have to take it a lot You have to take a lot of boards apart. It takes a while To get everything out and then it's kind of an awkward Situation to put back together, but just so you know again, I went with this one There was not a specific capacitor on the entire monitor that had fallen out of spec for life expectancy, so I just was again completely shocked by that and Just shows you that if there's not a real issue with your monitor and you're not ready to jump into a large repair It's not it's not something that you really have to do right away There are ways you can check for that But well first we're going to get in here and clean the rest of this shell and things I want to show you a little trick I've recently come up with and that's using a really high quality interior car cleaning product and Something about this product just lets it like lift up the old oils and dirt soft that plastic and It doesn't sit on there a long time So it doesn't harm the plastic and it's also works well on metals So I just use that on the shell and showed you that right there I did that on the entire shell for this monitor and it really worked out. Well, it got it really nice and clean I've got a lot of that old dust residue and build up off and now we're just going to go in and Re-seat the main chassis re-seat all the boards and this repair is getting close to Finished and we can get in and start testing the monitor Just again take your time when you're putting all this back together and make sure that you connect everything properly And again, it's not going to hurt to go and double-check everything you do. I mean, it's not There's nothing wrong with that so take your time and make sure you've done it right the first time and Just be safe as possible if you do this work yourself or if you just want to sit back and watch you You can just hang out and we can watch You can watch this repair on this video and then you know make up your own mind if you really want to get into it and if it really needs to be done, but Everybody can get in and pretty much clean their monitor The one thing you're gonna do before you put your cap back is you've got to apply some fresh die electric grease I use the brand Permatex and Just put a generous amount there on the anode ring and then you can do the same on the inside cap Make sure you got a nice layer and that's gonna eliminate the chances for dust to form or Get in there and cross Crackles, you know, it can get dried out in there, too So if you're if your flyback makes a lot of noise up at the point where it meets your tube You should consider Just going in and changing this that grease out because that can make a big difference getting the right amount of grease And here it is all put back together cleaned up and beautiful and I want to go through some of the interior Well internal things you can adjust here first off. We're gonna come down here real quick I'm gonna pause it and I want you to take a look at right here where my cursor is that is our flyback Adjustment so that's where we would get in here and if you wanted to turn that Potentiometer with the back off that's gonna control your focus and right above it. It does say focus So that's that's what that controls I'm gonna show you some of the other internal controls that you may want to use Before you put your shell on and get set This one right here is your screen control. There's a potentiometer right there and that's your g2 voltage Don't adjust that unless you you know really need to you believe your to tube is either tuned up too high Or if it's really old and needs to have an extra boost of brightness Then you can use that but it will wear out your tube if it's not set properly There's the convergence adjustment for horizontal convergence and this yoke Again, I said it does its own self adjustment through the sub menus and the regular menu Where you can do tilt correction from those menus So you don't have to worry about adjusting your yoke like you might on other CRTs that don't have that tilt correction feature So now we're gonna go through and I'm gonna quickly Kind of breeze through just how you know this monitor looks after You get done calibrating it and we'll go through and show some calibration to some of the techniques Again, you got to have a remote to get into the sub menu in this one It doesn't have to be the exact remote but to find out more on that I'll link again to the calibration video specifically where I go into detail on how to use the remote How to go in and access the service menu and how to make adjustments and then write it so that it keeps the adjustment the point I wanted you to see here was just kind of watch the screen as it changes and We get our adjustments Set for Calibration All right, so there you go. You can see me use that tilt correction and I'm actually As I increase and decrease that tilt correction setting It'll move that and actually tilt the yoke so that the the deflection yoke so that the picture shows up Nice and parallel and even of the way it should be now you want to get in again to the service menu And then you can start making your geometry adjustments Again, you're gonna see all that in that other video but right here I like to always start by getting my picture centered vertically and Horizontally and then I go in from there and try to work through the corner adjustments and It does take a lot of give-and-take. You got to just go back and forth on The 240p test suite and just try different adjustments and watch with your eye to see What adjustments are working what adjustments aren't working? But again big thanks to to our team EO and from that whole 240p test suite Plus all the great stuff he works on over there at his his MD for your projects, so I'll link to that website for more information on this Software because often get that question and in case you don't know you can get it for just about every gaming console now And it's pretty much free if you have a way to play ROMs that you can download off the internet, but you're gonna want to sit there and just tweak those corners the pin convergence and Are the pin cushion settings and the vertical bow settings? So you get it pretty much the way that you like it again It's not perfect because it's still an older set But you can tell when you get fresh capacitors, you know how much it evenly Distributes the signal meaning when you move it it you're actually seeing it change in all four corners and evenly throughout the screen and you're getting a nice, you know difference between the lowest of the settings all the way to the highest and Once you get it set Then you can go in and start running some tests and they there is an output There is a chance that when you change between different video inputs and different Consoles that you will have a left to right horizontal adjustment That will occur on your picture and that is normal So you can go in thankfully just to the regular menu on this monitor and you can change things Some of the things you can change the horizontal centerness and size as well as the vertical centerness and size so again, just go through and It just takes a lot of time to play with those settings, but eventually after you know Toyin with just about every setting you can get in there You'll come to a place that is about perfect or as perfect as the monitor is capable of and That way you've you know, you've done your best as far as for geometry is concerned on a CRT like this one okay, so here it is the very finished and cleaned up Beautiful-looking Sony PVM 2950 Q. Thanks Sean for let me look at it I'm congratulations on getting it and I'm sure that if you're not happy with it. I can find another home for it But I just know that you're gonna be Extremely happy with it because it is pretty much one of the very you know, one of the perfect top-end monitors for 240p and 480 I video content. I mean it works great. It has a great Level of inputs. You've got stereo Audio straight out of it. It supports a remote like a television does and it's just all around a very solid Unit that looks very well, and it not only holds its value But it's definitely grown in value and again this one was auctioned off at $1,300 and then there was many more expenses. So I know he's at least into this monitor for $2,000 or so but you know something like this should easily sell for $3,000 after being fully serviced like this and So just you know take your time if you get one of these and Again lucky enough for him but lucky enough for anybody if you find one the most important things I recommend or making sure it's cleaned up and Going in and you know Just checking everything with a visual inspection once you get your hands on the monitor And then don't worry about the capacitors unless you have a real issue that happens Especially if you think that your monitor doesn't have a lot of hours The only way I'd worry about that is if you have an opportunity to recap it or you really want to do it yourself Or you have access to somebody that has the skills to be able to properly to do a procedure like this And it would be a very costly job to get like an entire recap of something like this a lot of money So just to expect that but otherwise Congratulations on your new monitor, and I hope everybody enjoyed this look at the Sony PVM 2950 Q Look for more videos coming up real soon on the D series again We got some more cap work to do on those boards that have surface mount capacitors Thanks again everybody, and I hope you have a wonderful day. I'll see you guys next time with some more retro content