Amen, so keep your place there in Luke chapter 10. We're going to be looking at a story in Luke chapter 10 this morning. We're going to look at the story this morning of the Good Samaritan is going to be kind of one of the one of the basis of the sermon this morning. This morning we're going to talk about charity and giving and how to do these things in a biblical way. In Luke chapter 10 the Bible says, the Bible is talking about on this story that everybody knows as the story of the Good Samaritan. And this story is used by people to show mercy to people. But really what I want to point out is right at the beginning Jesus is using this story to define who our neighbor is. That's the question that's asked. Of course the entire law is encompassed with love the Lord God and then love your neighbor as yourself. So the question is, who's our neighbor? And that's what Jesus is using to define. He uses the story of the Good Samaritan to define to answer this question who our neighbor is to this man. Look at verse number 30. Let's look at this story for just a few minutes before we get into the basis for the sermon. But Jesus answers and says, a certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho and fell among thieves and stripped him of his raiment and wounded him and departed leaving him half dead. So this guy gets beaten up and robbed and thrown in this ditch and he's half dead. He's wounded, he's robbed. By chance there came down a certain priest by the way that way and when he saw him he passed by on the other side and likewise a Levite when he was at that place came and looked on him and passed by on the other side. So there's some irony here that the people that you would think would help this man in the ditch did not help him but a certain Samaritan as he journeyed came where he was and when he saw him he had compassion on him and went to him and bound up his wounds pouring in oil and wine and have set him on his own beast brought him to an inn and took care of him and on the morrow when he departed he took out two pence and gave them to the host and said unto him take care of him and whatsoever thou spendest more when I come I will repay thee. Which now of these three thinkest thou was neighbor unto him that fell among the thieves and he said he that showed mercy on him then Jesus said go and do likewise. So of course this Jesus defines the Samaritan as the neighbor meaning he's the one that provided help all this so us being a neighbor two people would us be helping people us be showing mercy on people. Turn to James chapter two let's look at a more specific example but in the good the picture or the story that Samaritan he didn't know this guy okay it's not like they were church members and they knew each other it really didn't have anything to do it you know someone who's your neighbor doesn't really have the definition of neighbor doesn't have anything to do with you know being saved or anything like that all right so when we say you know love your neighbor we're not talking about you know your your brother and sister in Christ and we're talking about you know everybody out there you know look and not ever your neighbor either okay we'll get to that in just a few minutes but you know the vast majority of you know unsaved people in this world are our neighbor all right that's what the Bible is pointing out here so we're supposed to help people show mercy not just the people in church but to people you know in in the world okay look at James chapter two James chapter two and not only that you know not only was he somebody that you know the Samaritan you know the Samaritans were this group that's the irony of it the Samaritans and then the the the children of Israel or Judah the Jews they didn't mix they were kind of like their societies were apart that the Jews looked down on the Samaritans like they were not pure and the Samaritans remember the woman at the well was a Samaritan they you know some of them may be held to the you know the faith but the majority of them had gone bad since Jeroboam right they had gone into idol worship and and they didn't follow you know the one true God you know that's just looking at them as a whole okay not to say there wasn't people that did look at James chapter two so the point is that he didn't know this guy he was just showing mercy and that is what it means to be a neighbor all right look at James chapter two verse 13 James chapter two verse 13 James chapter two of course is a commonly misunderstood chapter in the Bible but it's talking about what our works have to do with our faith meaning our works make us profitable to other people all right the example that it gives is in verse number 13 so basically if you have faith and you are saved but you don't have works you will be of no profit to anybody else meaning you'll be of no help to anybody else you'll not get anybody else saved you'll not have any fruit in your life and you won't be able to benefit anyone look at the example the analogy that's given here is in verse 13 it says for he shall have judgment without mercy that showeth no that showed no mercy so again pointing out this this idea that the Christian is supposed to have mercy upon people the same thing that we saw demonstrated in in Luke chapter 10 with the Good Samaritan and mercy rejoices against judgment what does it profit my brethren though a man say he have faith and have not works can faith save him then he gives this example he says if a brother or sister be naked and destitute of daily food and one of you say unto him depart in peace be warmed and filled not with standing you give them not those things which are needful to the body what doth it profit that's the point if there was four words to describe James chapter 2 it would be what doth it profit right there what is the point you have to ask yourself if you have faith without works it's not saying you need it's not saying you need works to be saved it's saying what doth your faith profit if there aren't works that go with it saying it's just like that would just be like telling your your faith would be worthless to others is what the Bible is saying it would be as worthless as if you had a brother or sister in Christ in the church that was like I don't have any clothes I don't have anything to eat and you're just like I hope you get some food today and I hope you get warmed you know brother and then you walk away and you do nothing to correct that problem with your brother and sister in Christ all right so look it's just saying that you know your works should be with your faith otherwise your brother is not going to profit from you all right no one will profit from you so our neighbor and our brothers and sisters should profit from our faith and again the example that's being showed here in James chapter 2 is this example of we're commanded to show mercy right we're commanded to give mercy to people and you know all of these people from you know people we don't even know to our brothers and sisters in Christ so it's a very specific example of our brother you know someone that we know that saved in you know that we're in church with in James chapter 2 all right all of that to say this the title of the sermon this morning is you know how to not be gullible is the title of the sermon this morning all right because look we are so where is the line where is the line because look it's it's kind of a it's kind of a gray zone where we have to make a decision at this you know at some point that you know I'm not just going to you know give everything to everybody that wants something in my life turned to Proverbs chapter 14 here's the problem statement this morning all right here's you say why shouldn't I just help every single person that wants help from me no matter what well there is some biblical doctrine that we can follow here that will help us make these types of decisions look at problem okay here's the problem statement of the sermon I'm going to give you some tips this morning on how to understand who we should help and who we should not help in our Christian lives all right the Christian is supposed to give mercy but are there any limits let's look at it this morning look at Proverbs chapter 14 look at verse number 15 the Bible says this it says the simple the simple believe it every word but the prudent man looketh well to his going here's the problem statement today everyone's a liar a lot of people are a liar and this sermon is going to be very specific to the nation and the state of the nation that we live in today because look if we're in some other country this would be a different type of sermon but we live in this society in this culture and what I'm telling you in this culture today there are people today that their way of life is to rip people off their way of life look their way of life is to scam people now keep in mind that in the good Samaritan the story of the good Samaritan there was a man who was beaten and he was put it he was he was beaten half the death robbed and put in the ditch all right and then there was the the priest the Levite that came along they did nothing and then this Samaritan came along and helped him but there was also another group of people in that in that that story and that other group of people were the thieves and the thieves were not the neighbor okay it was the Samaritan who was being a neighbor the thieves were not the neighbor okay so these people out there today that are just trying to scam you trying to rip you off in every possible way look it is so elaborate and so complex today that you have to almost look at some of these people and just be like wouldn't it just be easier to work then to go through all this trouble of scamming people and trying to rip people off but look they just do it they just do it it is a way of life for many many people in this country today and you know people praying on people in this country possibly international people from other now that we have the internet these scammers could be from anywhere we just don't know I remember there was a I used to when I was living in Sacramento going to Verity Baptist Church I drove I had a job for almost three two and a half years where I was driving an hour and a half one way to the job and I would drive an hour and a half home every single day and I got a call on my phone coming home from work one day and it was right when I started the drive and it was it was this call and it said this is the IRS department and I knew right away it was a scam but I was bored I you know so I stayed on the phone and I listened to the whole thing it was like I was on the phone with this person for like 45 minutes because I was just like I just want to see how this is gonna play out I want to see how they're gonna try to rip me off and it went into this long thing on how you know I owed these taxes and all this kind of and it wasn't even good but it was it was fairly you know long and then it was finally but there's a way out you know they're like you owe all this taxes that you didn't look and I pay my taxes and I have my taxes professionally done and all this and there is zero concern that I have tax made a mistake right but this scam went on and on and on and then it was like you're gonna lose your house and you're gonna lose all this that they said everything except they're gonna come take my family away it was just this big long thing trying to put fear into me and then finally it was like but you can get out of this if you just send us a few hundred dollars and we'll just get you out of this and forget everything okay you know of course then I hung up and I tried to call it back and it was but look it's all these these auto dialer numbers these throw away phones or whatever of course they wouldn't pick up the phone again but the point is I mean I'm sure they if they call 10,000 people I'm sure they get you know there's some percentage of people that that pay them where they get away with it it's profitable for them but those people are the thieves in the story of the Good Samaritan so how to not be a gullible person is what we're gonna look at from the Bible this morning using James chapter 2 and Luke chapter 10 you know we can first here's the first point I want to give you I'm gonna give you just a couple points two three points this morning on things to watch for to where you can you'll if you just write these three points down you'll be able to filter out 99.9% of all problems that you're gonna have in your life and the first one is this if we just put together James chapter 2 and Luke chapter 10 both of these scenarios they are not just giving money to people they are providing desperate life needs in these scenarios I mean it is a situation in the Good Samaritan where he's providing like life-saving care to this individual alright right there we've we've gone past almost everybody that's gonna try to get something from you in this world but it's the same thing in James chapter 2 with your brother right he's not just you know giving his brother like a bunch of money or whatever he's providing his brother with food or what what should have been provided is food and clothing to keep them warm those are like necessary life sustaining things that will eliminate 99% right there alright but even beyond this look at Matthew chapter 26 and verse number 11 or just look at the front of your bulletin it is the verse of the week here's something that we also need to understand especially in this country today Jesus himself said alright Jesus himself says this in Matthew 26 11 he says the poor have been always with you but me you have not always so here's what Jesus is saying he's saying the poor are always gonna exist that's that's what Jesus is saying he's like the it's look it's not our job to fix that problem and in our country today first of all look let's just think about it throughout history people have been poor for many reasons people have been poor just because throughout history what Jesus is saying is like people are poor for all kinds of different reasons look in our country today it's different we'll get to that but people throughout history have been poor just because they didn't have the right family name people today in India and other places in in Southeast Asia are are poor just because they're born into a certain family it's just like you're gonna be poor your whole life that's just the way it is these caste systems and you know oppressive you know systems maybe you just have a bad king these have a bad ruler that just steals all the money from the people and all the people are poor just because the rulers bad that's possible too so people have been poor for no fault of their own don't get me wrong this morning people you know there's famines look at the story we read in Kings just a few weeks ago there's famines where people just have nothing no fault of their own right again bad ruler people have been poor because they're Christian people have been poor because they've been persecuted for their Christian faith you know where there may be Christians or even today Christians are treated as a subclass in certain countries they're persecuted they're poor just because of faith in Jesus Christ so people have been poor for many different reasons many many reasons that are not their fault even one percent all right but this sermon today is for us living in America all right it's tips for you know charity and mercy for us as Americans okay it wouldn't apply to somebody living in some other country but we're all in this country in this culture we're talking about how to not be gullible in our Christian lives while you know where's the line between mercy and and getting ripped off that's the point of the sermon this morning all right here's the second point go to 1st Timothy chapter 5 so right away we understand the first tip is this you know life saving support is what was given in the case of the Good Samaritan and also what was talked about in James chapter 2 all right it was like saving support it wasn't you know a vehicle or an electric bill or anything like that all right it was literally something that they needed to survive in James chapter 2 and Luke chapter 10 but here's the second point on how to draw that line between mercy and you know getting ripped off just being a gullible person look at verse number 9 of 1st Timothy chapter 5 the Bible says let not the Bible gives us a definition of who deserves support okay the Bible defines it this idea of who deserves help from the church so let's take our you know let's take our cues from this and I can tell you that we're already way too merciful even in this department you know as a church as as things as far as that goes but look at how strict the Bible is look at 1st Timothy chapter 5 look at verse number 9 let not a widow be taken into the taken into the number under three score years old having been the wife of one man so right away we've eliminated like over 75% of the population way more than that we've already just in that first in the first few words we've eliminated all men eliminate all men and it says you know a widow this talking about you know the church you know shouldn't support someone unless they're a widow and they're at least over 60 years old and they've only been married one time like their husband died and it was their only husband so the Bible is saying you know pretty much there's I mean 99% of people right there are eliminated all right no men you talk about how the Bible people are like oh the Bible so hard up the Bible's hardest on men hate to break it to you like men deserve no help what the Bible is saying all right look at verse number 10 now it gets even more detailed on even the widows it's gonna just narrow it down filter it down even more she she must have she must be a widow over 60 years old having been the wife of one man so if she is a widow that is a good report and she's 59 years old no is what the Bible is saying here right you like man that's harsh hey this is the Bible look at verse 10 well reported of for good works if she had brought up children she have lodged strangers she have washed the saints feet she have relieved the afflicted if she has diligently followed every good work so this it must be a woman with a good testimony as well all right but the younger widows here's the younger ones refuse for when they become to wax and wanton against Christ they will marry having damnation because they have cast off their first faith I mean the damnation here is talking about punishment or you know hard hard times and with all they learn to be idle wandering about from house to house and not only idols but tattlers also in busybodies speaking things which they ought not I will therefore that the younger women marry bear children guide the house give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully for some have turned already turned aside after Satan if any man or woman that believeth have widows let him let them relieve them and let the church let not the church be charged that it may relieve them that are widows indeed and then this is of course where first Timothy 5 8 comes in but Bible here is saying is that even if there is a widow that apply it that that fits this over 60 good testimony and married one time her family should support her first if not then the church will support this widow so this is some pretty harsh criteria as far as who the church should be responsible for supporting no men only older women widows of good report good testimony married one time raise good children all these things you say that's harsh but if you just look at the opposite of what's happening today you realize that it makes a lot of sense you look at what's happening today you have a single man who's you know look at the opposite of this you have a single man who's 20 to 50 years old and is standing out and just asking people for money that's the opposite of this that's the opposite and where are we today he needs money he has no place to live he has no job you ask yourself what's going on here so the second point is this helping people showing mercy to people should not be enabling sin and that's exactly what is happening today so number one you know mercy that is shown in the Bible by the Good Samaritan mercy that is shown in James chapter 2 to your brother and sister in Christ in the church is life-saving needs it is life-sustaining needs the second point is anything that we provide to people we showed people mercy it should not be enabling sin and the Bible says look I'm telling you that today sin has patterns and you need to understand how to see these patterns so if somebody that you know maybe somebody you're related to somebody is asking you for help or asking you for mercy and you're giving them help but you're really enabling a sin that they're in you're wrong everybody look I get it everybody's looking for somebody to help everybody is looking for that you know case that they can take on and all this and I'll show you how to do that later in the sermon but things like fornication slothfulness is a huge one these things are not just sins people do one time they become lifestyles for people and they become you can see the patterns in their life they're easy to see and we should not be showing you know mercy where God says there should be consequences otherwise we're stepping in front of God we're stepping in front of the Lord the Samaritan story the guy was half-dead he was going to die he was in real trouble he was in real trouble this is why you know this homeless you know drug situation is so bad because what it does well here's why it's so wicked that you know the vast majority of people that are involved in it are they do not meet this criteria in 1st Timothy chapter 5 they don't meet this criteria of someone that deserves support so what's so wicked about it is that if there is somebody that really needs help that deserves that support they cover they cover it they conceal people that actually needs help I'll give you an example in in North Dakota in North Dakota where I grew up if you were on the side of the road with your your hood popped on your car you would not have one or two cars drive past you without someone stopping that's just the way it is you would not you would not find a situation where when I first got to California and I got my first job in California I went the people that I worked with took me out to lunch the first day and we walked outside of the sandwich place in Sacramento and there was a man laying on the sidewalk right there and we all just kind of stepped over this guy you know and we just kept walking that would never happen in the Midwest it would never happen because there isn't this homelessness situation that has made people and look everybody knew that he was just he was drunk he was high he was a he was a drug addict he was a 28 year old man laying there we've driven by people you know going to the downtown church we drove by a man in a wheelchair slumped over one day and we stopped because I just told my wife I know what's going on here but I'm never gonna drive by somebody slumped over in a wheelchair I'm just not gonna I refuse to let myself become that person so I did stop and went over and here he had a bottle of whiskey next to him and he was just passed out but this is what's so wicked about the drunk and the drug addict in these situations is they cover so people drive by and they do that many many times and then there's somebody in a wheelchair on a sidewalk they had a heart attack and maybe needs help and everyone's like oh he's drunk oh he's a drug addict it makes society apathetic to everything that's what's so wicked about it is that you know the man the the man could be beaten and laying in the ditch and everyone thinks oh he's just a drug addict you know he's just he's drunk or he's high or whatever they mask anyone that might actually need help right that's what's so wicked about it right but look we should not go to 2nd Thessalonians chapter 3 we should not step in front of God when the Bible is a book of consequences the Bible is a book of if you get into sin there is consequences the wages of sin is death look that's talking about physical death as well sin will kill you physically you know being a drunk and drug addict will kill you physically that's consequence the Bible is a book of consequences the Bible says in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 10 2nd Thessalonians chapter 3 and verse number 10 sorry it says it says for even when we were with you we commanded you that if any would not work neither should he eat so you say what about the man who doesn't fit the 1st Timothy chapter 5 you know doesn't fit 1st Timothy chapter 5 he's a man he's he's young it doesn't even say he's just a man he's just a man and he won't work what does it say well he's going to get hungry that's the consequences that's going to happen you know what a man that gets hungry will do that no one will feed him he will go to work this is what the Bible is saying is like is but you know what you know what the it happens in this country is the government steps in front of God the government steps in front of God we should not be part of that you know the Bible is a book of consequences meaning you know don't feed the bears why do they say don't feed the bears at campgrounds because they don't want a bunch of bears around they don't want a bunch of bears not only in the camp but they don't want a bunch of bears that are forgetting how to feed themselves they don't want a bunch of bears that are relying on people leaving a cooler out or people leaving potato chips out and they don't know how to go forage and work for their own food so you get more bears that's why this idea of like let's give them needles and let's give them methadone and let's give them you know drugs and let's give them phones and let's give them money all this stuff you just like it's exactly the wrong thing they're doing exactly they're not doing what the Bible says they're doing the opposite of what the Bible says and you want what's happening well they're just more and more and more and more because there's no consequences there's no consequences you know some kid starts out in high school and starts you know doing drugs and and not being able to work and you know his parents kick him out of the house and then all sudden he has nothing to eat you know what he might turn that life around we're not talking about even salvation here we're talking about just getting hungry who's gonna get hungry today though nobody nobody I mean you have to recognize patterns with people sin patterns with people and if somebody's in a sin pattern and and you know what there are suffering consequences from that sin pattern don't you get involved you let those consequences work because that is what will help them don't cover consequences that's not mercy that's the opposite of mercy it is not merciful to stop consequences from somebody the Bible says there should be consequences the government already messes this up already all right but look just as Jesus said the poor is always with us it is not our job to just make sure everybody just has a bunch of money no matter what they do that is not our job you got a man who's under 60 years old especially two arms two legs and he's broke there's a sin problem there there's a sin you know what he needs he needs to go hungry he needs to go hungry but look I'm telling you in this society today I don't know how but apparently you don't need to work to not go hungry today because I have met so many people that just they just they're perpetually unemployed they perpetually don't have a job and they are not hungry so I don't know how they do it I don't know what they got going on they they just they're you know so we're not really talking about the poor in the United States at all well you know we're talking about the United States we're talking about income inequality that's what we're talking about in the United States because you can you can survive in this country without having a job that's not right though you shouldn't be able to and you know what happened if you wouldn't you weren't able to survive you didn't meet the first Timothy five you know criteria and you weren't able to survive you know you do there'd be a lot more people going to work there'd be a lot less slothful people there'd be a lot less people into all this sin and you know because they would be suffering the consequences of that so let it not be said of Christians that oh through I'm being merciful by helping someone continue their cycle of sin that is not right all right I mean it's just surprising how many people you meet that are always constantly in between jobs perpetually it's crazy now you know what I think I'm going to start changing in this in this area obviously if you meet someone for the first time and they're in between jobs you can't really say anything but think about this if you especially a brother or sister you know that's just perpetually in between jobs I mean it's like what would I say as a pastor if somebody came up to me and they're just like I just drank a bunch of alcohol last night what would I say I wouldn't say oh great because that sin but you know what it's the same thing just being slothful and just depending on other people is just it's it's the same it's a sin problem let us not step in front of you know sin problems look there's always an excuse always the other person's fault while I had to change this job it's always the you know look you're not helping people by enabling sin that's what we need to understand all right another thing to notice about again the Good Samaritan and James chapter 2 they needed life saving care not cash not cash there's a story one of the guys from the church told I don't remember who told the story about you know somebody had a sign that said you know just hungry right we've all seen this sign and he went and he bought a hamburger for this guy this man and gave it to the man the man threw it in his face literally threw the hamburger back at him just threw it in his face I don't want a hamburger he wants money there's a guy down there's a guy half a mile from here that stands on this corner and his sign literally says cash please I mean there they're not even ashamed anymore so look this church has helped many people this church has helped many people and I want to say that we've never given cash to anybody but rarely if I ever give cash to somebody from the church to help them it's somebody I know and trust but we will rarely give cash you know and I would almost say never but you know we have done that to people that we know and trust but we've paid for gas for people that needed a tank of gas we've paid for bills for people that haven't a problem with a bill look these are rare occasions to okay these are rare occasions to we've paid for repairs that people needed on a vehicle we've done all these things but you know what majority of the problems a majority of the issues where we actually help people with specific things like this instead of cash there was also a sin problem there too but there was council going along with that help that's why by the way you know first Timothy chapter 5 it's better that churches handle helping people instead of government because churches know who people are with churches council can go along with the help you know council hey we'll help you out this one time I'm sorry you got in this tight spot you know we can help you out this one time but here's what you need to fix going forward here's how you know your life needs to change going forward does not have this problem anymore but you know also notice in you know in first in first in the Samaritan story you know he didn't give a bunch of money he gave it to the service provider he gave it gave it to the innkeeper the person that was actually providing the service to the man all right turn to Proverbs chapter 3 so we need to be careful number one that just remember it's life-saving support that they were giving to these people all right and also you know they were not enabling sin we're not talking about enabling sin that is the vast majority those two things right there will stop the vast majority of you know help or you know that people will ask for you from you like no I'm enabling your sin no I see that you've been in fornication and you're having these problems throughout your life because of the lifestyle that you're living no I see that you have a problem with drugs and alcohol and giving you money even you know paying your rent or whatever it is is not going to help you but it's going to it's going to hurt you and help you continue this lifestyle of sin look don't step in front of God you are not you are not more merciful than God people need consequences or they're not going to get right that's what the Bible teaches even for saved people all right look Proverbs chapter 3 Proverbs chapter 3 this kind of this really sums up what we're talking about here Proverbs chapter 3 look at verse number 27 the Bible says withhold not good from them to whom it is due when it is in the power of thine hand to do it so you're like oh well I have you know people will read that they're like well I just I've been blessed by God I have some money I might as well just give it to people but here's the thing it says withhold not good that's the first thing you know if you give somebody something that helps them continue in sin in their life that's not good that's not a good thing and also it says to whom it is due to who deserves it to whom it is just to give it to first Timothy chapter 5 the 28 year old guy standing on the corner saying you know give me money it's not due to him you know what he is he's he's a slothful wicked person and you know he's a thief what he is he's the thief he's not the guy laying in the ditch he's the thief in the Good Samaritan story somebody calling you on the phone saying there the IRS or whatever they're the thieves they're trying to beat you up and put you in the ditch right so we're not to just say oh we should just do everything for everybody the worst thing you could do is reward someone that's in sin give him look don't step in front of God you know we've actually had this happen there's none of these problems at the church by the way this is just a general sermon all right but we have had these problems we've had had problems where somebody was getting counsel at the church to you know from the pastor to hey stop doing these things in your life and then there was another church member just feeding them you know things that they didn't need to help them continue in that sin don't step in front of God if somebody in the church is asking you things that might be something to maybe mention to the to the leadership the pastor of the church or the pastor's wife because guess what there may have been something that we've already helped with where there's a sin problem and you may be advised to okay in this case you know there's a sin problem here and I appreciate if you'd not step in front of God God basically all right look if you want to destroy somebody give them everything you want to destroy somebody give them everything I don't care I don't care what nation you're from what color you are what language speak you find a group of people and give them everything and you will destroy them you will destroy them because why you'll take away all the consequences of all the sins and those things and if you do that sin increases sin increases you don't love people that you're doing that to you can call it whatever you want but that's not love you say I know but I have more turn to Proverbs chapter 10 I have more and I just feel like I you know even the guy on the street corner that's 28 years old and asking for money yeah but he's not living a great life I have more than him and all this look at Proverbs chapter 10 in verse number two it won't help them anyway even if you do give it to them against all the counsel of this sermon it won't help them anyway it will do nothing for them you might as well light your money on fire it would be better look at Proverbs 10 verse 2 treasures of wickedness profit nothing it will profit that person nothing but righteousness delivereth from death look at Proverbs chapter 20 in verse number 17 Proverbs chapter 20 in verse number 17 this is for the the scammer that's just trying to scam people through all these elaborate look that the young man who's slothful and won't go to work and is on drugs and is a drunk and is standing on the corner he's a scammer he's a thief he's just not a very good one he's not a very elaborate one but he's no different than the guy working some you know phone scheme or whatever he's doing trying to scam you know trying to find older people and and and get them to give their social security numbers or whatever it is they're no different it's just one's more complicated than the other that's all look at Proverbs chapter 20 in verse number 17 this is the for the scammers here the bread of deceit is sweet to a man but afterwards his mouth should be filled with gravel but like these scammers they're just like the Bible is saying like yeah they'll lie to you and they'll tell you all these things but it's like there's just judgment coming for them that's it whether that be judgment in hell or judgment on this earth it doesn't matter you giving them money is not going to help them it will do nothing for them all right so look 99.9999% of all the people that want money from you or want you know are asking you for money in this world or calling you or emailing you or whatever is already taken care of in just the first two things that I've given you here all right but what about this one what about this one what about charities what about what about giving to charities like I mean the Red Cross Salvation Army I mean these are legitimate organizations right but here's another thing if I gave to every charity that wanted money from me I would be broke if I gave five dollars a month to every single person that wanted five dollars a month from me I would have no money I wouldn't be able to pay my own bills you say well pastor that's pretty harsh so you say pastor how many charities do you have to none none unless you count church unless you count churches and activities that have to do with this church and you know churches that I know and support but charities look there's so many charities out there I mean the most recent one you know would you like to give a dollar every time you go buy something would you like to round up would you like to give a dollar to this the last one we saw was just a couple days ago went to tractor supply and it was like would you like to give an extra dollar to what was it Miranda Lambert Lambert's mutt nation and I'm just like I just started laughing immediately and I'm like what she's like and the lady was really offended that I laughed because she's like no no there's this country music singer Miranda Lambert and she started this really wonderful charity that where she how she adopts dogs at mutt nation it's always the animals with these people it's always the animals you know what I realized I realized this when I was like eight years old because my parents would always watch Wheel of Fortune so like Wheel of Fortune was always on on the on the kitchen counter like every single day when whenever I don't know is Wheel of Fortune still on but I mean Pat Sajak must be 150 years old if it is but the point is they would always watch Wheel of Fortune and every now and then they'd have a celebrity Wheel of Fortune and they were always playing for a charity and all these celebrities and I was like this is so evil I remember thinking this is a little kid all these celebrities were like I'm playing for you know the SPCA so we can spay and neuter cats and all these things and they're winning like fifty thousand dollars and giving it so cats so we can have more cats suffering everywhere I'm just like these are wicked people well we have orphanages that need money we have you know handicap children organizations that need money I mean all these things I mean like we could actually be helping people and these people care more about dogs that's wicked in itself that's a sign of a wicked person it cares more about animals that's Romans one type stuff right there they care more about the creature more than creator is what's going on there but the point is I don't know what the point is but the point is if you gave to charities like if you gave to every charity that wanted money for me you would have no money I give to no charity my answer is you know my answer is to every single charity that wants money for me I give to church that's all I say you know what I know where my money goes at church I know that my money goes to actually help people I know my tithe actually goes to help to give the most important care we're talking about life saving care I know that when I give you know my tithe to churches that I've gone to you know when I give tithe here it goes to people spiritual salvation and discipleship that's what I know and that's most important care that people need that's what people really need that's what people really need you know they need they need discipleship they need counsel they need spiritual guidance and that's what a church provides and so look I know I'm commanded you know to give you know my tithe to the church but I'm happy that I give that I'm happy that it was because I know it's going for the actual needs of people I know that it's going out to get people saved I know that it's supporting an organization whose number one goal is to spread the gospel on earth and that what other charity could there be mutt nation give me a break and look here's the thing like even people that are in church even people that are in church most people most people that have problems turn to 1st Corinthians chapter 10 here's another beauty of church not just you know soul winning an actual salvation but if people would come to church and just listen to counsel they receive at church they would never need help again think about that think about that just ask questions and follow through on everything that you're told and I'm not even just talking about from the pastor because here's here's some comfort and I kind of preached on this on on Friday but let me point out something here in 1st Corinthians chapter 10 and verse number 13 because guess what there's a lot of people in this church that are not broke there's a lot of people in this church that have figured out how to like apply the principles of the Bible look you could be a hard worker you could be somebody that goes to work every single day you could be somebody that comes to church three times a week and you know you could be broke your sin could just simply be not applying biblical principles to your life you could just be someone that just spends too much money you could be someone that's just covetous and you're just like everything that I see I must buy I ever met this person they just buy too many things and they just don't have any money because it's not because they don't work it's not because they don't go to church it's just that they're just covetous and they just buy too much stuff look at verse Corinthians chapter 10 verse number 13 the Bible says there are no temptation taken to you taken you but such that is common to man this is talking about a couple promises that God gives you let's read the rest of the verse and I'll explain where I'm going with this but God is faithful who will not suffer you to be tempted above that you're able it's talking about like when you go through tough times when you're going through difficult times in your life God is telling you two things and the first thing is what I'm gonna focus on but he's basically saying hey what you're going through other people have gone through and then the second thing is that you know you will you will have the ability to handle it it doesn't say that you will handle it correctly it says you will have the ability that if you follow the Bible you will be able to get through it but for the purpose of this sermon what I need you to understand is like if you're going to a church you say I'm broke and then you just you start going to a church you have to realize you know what there's people in this church that aren't broke maybe I should start learning there's people that have done hard things that mean you know what that means that means you can do hard things there's people that have you know managed their finances that have that have learned how to do things and make a living and support their families if they can do it you can do it that is what the Bible is giving you hope in right here it's saying look there's people look so you go to a church and you're like I got all these financial problems guess what there's people here that don't have financial problems talk to the pastor talk to one of your brothers that doesn't have financial problems and be like how do you not have financial problems you know what they probably tell you they probably help you with that because all the things that you're going to go through are common to man it's not like it's not like we don't all walk in you know buy a new pickup and be like that is really nice it's just not everybody buys everything that they see but some people do and they're broke you know that's just the lightest side of sin you know it's not like you know people in this church you know most you know the men in this church work like the men in this church work not most the men in this church work but here's the thing some people don't so if somebody came to this church that didn't work and be like man I don't have any money I'm broke you know I'm sure somebody in this church would tell them like hey it's because you don't work it's because you're not working it's common to men men have solved these problems you know people have gone through these things like you know why go to work well I want to support my family I want to have money for food to eat and I don't want the government providing that for me because that's not biblical all right so look get in church ask counsel do everything you're told and you'll just be fine it's funny that it's that simple but it really is you know solved I got a sin problem well laziness slothfulness I'm sure nothing wanted to work look it's a terrible sin to not want to work it's a terrible sin that's why the Bible says you should just go hungry so look we're to be merciful to people right we're to be merciful to people turn to second second Timothy chapter 3 second Timothy chapter 3 but you know what you know here's how you exercise your mercy in this church you know what you do you go soul winning that's how you exercise mercy in this church because just like the Good Samaritan just like James chapter 2 that will give people in this country what they need what they really need and what they really need is salvation and here's the irony of the guy standing on the corner with the sign he doesn't want to hear the gospel you will not find people more unreceptive than the guy standing out there who's steeped in sin standing out there saying cash please he will not be receptive to the gospel because they're steeped in sin their heart is hard and it's amazing how actually prideful because look we talk to those people if they walk by if they walk by we ask them but it's amazing how actually prideful they are and how hard-hearted to the gospel they are and it's because they're steeped in sin and they've embraced sin so look giving them cash please is not going to help them it's going to hurt them it's going to hurt them let me just say you know it's a jungle out there so that's why I'm trying to help you this morning alright so second Timothy chapter 3 you know the Bible talks about last days and end times those are two different terms right there we're in the last days we know this we don't know that we're in the end times we're not in the end times okay and look I don't know that that we will see the end times ourselves I don't know that all right I mean I hope not I hope we have more time to spread the gospel and give that that mercy to people that actually need it but here's what I can tell you and I was discussing this a couple days with some of the guys at Sher Foundation as well here's what I know we're in the end times of this nation we are on that we are on that we have crested the hill and we are on the downhill of this nation hundred percent hundred percent look at second Timothy chapter 3 look at verse number one so it's a jungle out there people trying to scam you people trying to steal from you people trying to rip you off people trying to look like even people that are trying to they're trying to feign that they need support you need to you need to use your head a little bit we were driving home two months ago and there was a block away from my house there's a little cul-de-sac where there's no houses and it's really dark and every now and then you'll see a couple cars over there in that darkness and you know something's going on there that's not good all right you're saying what kind of neighborhood do you live in pastor well you know I gotta have a good fence but the point is this there was a lady standing out on the street flagging down cars she was flagging down cars and my wife and I were just turning and she walked right up to my wife's window and I cracked the window and she said we need help and she had her hood popped on her car and there was some guy standing in the darkness over there it's just like yeah our car battery our car won't start I think it's a battery can you give us a jumpstart and yeah I could have gone over there and give him a jump start I could have walked over in the dark with my wife and got robbed or beaten or killed by these people because that's what they're doing I said I said no I'm not going to do that but I will call the police and I will have make sure somebody's over there in just a few minutes you're not in trouble right now right she's like oh no you don't have to do that no no we're fine and then I went to my house and they were gone in five minutes suddenly the car started amazing I started their car for them but see you have to be smart you can't be dumb all right you can't be stupid or look you're gonna be the guy laying in the ditch half dead look at 2nd Timothy chapter 3 verse number one you say that's bad it's bad but here's the thing it's gonna get worse it's gonna get worse it's gonna be more and more of these types of people as we are on the downhill slope in this country all right this know also that in the last days perilous times shall come this is the last days that we're in Jesus himself said that we are in the last days during Jesus's time we're in the last half of this thing even when Jesus was on this earth all right for men what it said men shall be lovers of their own selves covetous you know what that means that means they want your stuff that means they want your money boasters proud blasphemers disobedient to parents unthankful that's that's people that just want free stuff they're unthankful they won't appreciate anything without natural affection we're talking about reprobates here truce breakers that's a scammer right there hey hey if you sign up for this I'll give you this their truce breakers their liars their scammers all these people that were these wicked people here look there are people that will scam people out of their entire life savings and they won't think twice about it they will call like the retirees are are high on the list of people that just get ripped off for the most money but they will go and they will find somebody who is 70 years old 80 years old 90 years old they will do some scam on it will take their life savings and they won't think twice about it they're there they have no natural affection these people are reprobates people that can do stuff like this traders you know they just there's no truth in them there's no truth in them and what's my point of trying to make here is that the pool of these wicked people here is gonna grow and grow and grow there's only gonna be more of these people there's not gonna be less so if you're unsure look and here's the thing if you're unsure about something just ask ask ask your pastor ask your pastor's wife if you're unsure somebody's you know trying to get that just ask it's better to ask and then to make a silly thing like especially in church especially in church because look we want people to grow we want people to grow and there might be a case where somebody just needs you know consequences in their life we want people to grow we want people to get into church you know and if we're just the ones that people are just you know Christians just they take this this mercy term to just enabling every single sin of every single person that they know you know these people aren't gonna have any consequences and you know their heart will remain hard and it will never get softened look there's some people that I have prayed for in my life that I'm like I pray that God would punish them so their heart would be softened that they could get saved because that's what people need you know a lot of people need to get down low they need to get to that breaking point and they know get them those people saved get those people saved get them into church disciple people and that's what they really need you know they don't need money right they don't need money they don't need people to help them sin so just be careful out there today I mean it's a jungle out there it's a jungle out there even people that we know you know that are asking us for things many times are are in sin and look if you think about it you know they're in sin so don't step in front of God in his consequences let's bow our heads and have a word of prayer


Hey everyone, today we have a nice easy recipe for you, perfect for during the week when you wanna get dinner on the table and you want it to be healthy and delicious and flavorful.  So I'm Rockin' Robin and I'm gonna show you how to make it right after this. Okay, so before we get into our recipe and the ingredients, I just wanna encourage you to hit that subscribe button right now and the notification bell, that way you'll be notified every week when my new videos come out and we're always cooking up something delicious and healthy for you. So if you're into healthy eating, you don't wanna miss any. So go ahead and smash that subscribe button. All right, let's go over those ingredients. So for our ingredients, we'll need a pound of ground turkey. I have some cauliflower rice here, it's already prepared and you can buy it at the store already riced or you can do it yourself and I happen to have a video for you if you'd like to see that. I would like to mention though if you buy it already riced compared to doing it yourself, the quality isn't quite as good. You end up with a lot of, they put a lot of stems in there and you can tell because how hard it is. So I like more florets, they cook up quicker. It's just, I like it better. But anyway, the choice is yours. We'll need some diced up red bell pepper. I have some shredded carrot, chopped up zucchini and asparagus. I have the super fine diced here on some yellow onion and I have a video for that as well if you wanna know how to cut it up really fine and very quickly. So go ahead and check that out. Also we'll need some broccoli florets. I bought these, I bought these at Costco and they're organic. Sesame oil, we need some of that. Coconut aminos. Now if you're not familiar with that it's sort of like a soy sauce substitute but it's made out of coconuts of course. And here's what the bottle looks like. You can pick yourself up a bottle of this at Trader Joe's or even just a regular supermarket. We'll need some fresh ginger. Now here I just taken the back of a spoon and peeled off the skin of the ginger and then used a micro plane and just made it nice and fine. We'll need some garlic powder and some salt. All right we're gonna start cooking here. I've got a large frying, a deep frying pan here. So I can get everything in at the end and it's not falling out of the pan. Over medium heat I'm just gonna put just a touch of olive oil in there. When I'm cooking I'm gonna start with the ground turkey first. Let me add just a little more oil. Here goes our ground turkey. Break it up and add a little bit of salt to this. And garlic powder. So while our turkey is cooking I'm gonna combine the coconut aminos in a bowl here. We're gonna combine and make our sauce. Very simple sauce to make. We'll add the ginger. I'm gonna add some of the garlic powder and the sesame oil. Sesame oil has a very strong flavor. So you don't wanna use too much but it adds a really nice flavor.  So our turkey's almost done. You wanna get it pretty much done. Just make sure you break it up into little pieces. That way it distributes throughout your whole dish. All right, right when all the pink is gone on the turkey I'm gonna take some of the sauce. Maybe not quite, maybe half. And I'm gonna put it in there with the meat and stir that up. And that's gonna flavor our meat. All right, now I'm gonna place the meat into a bowl that I have just behind the stove here and we're gonna keep it warm. Now we'll cover that. Got my flame back up to medium-high. I'm gonna add a little bit of olive oil to the pan about a tablespoon or so. And then I'm gonna add the onion and we're gonna cook this for about three minutes. All right, now it's time to add the cauliflower to this. And you can see how our pan gets pretty full pretty quick. Add the broccoli, because broccoli takes a little while to cook. I'm gonna toss in those bell peppers. I'm gonna toss in the carrots. Look at that. You certainly feel free to change up your vegetables. You don't like some of these. You can sub in whatever you want, really. We're also gonna add some salt to this and our garlic powder. I'm gonna spread it around. And we're gonna just cook this up for about, you know, five to seven minutes, something like that. I'm gonna put the lid on it, too. That'll help cook the broccoli and soften that up. All right, let's check this. It's been about five minutes. The broccoli's looking good. It's got a nice bright green color to it. Now we're gonna add the zucchini and the asparagus. They don't take as long to cook, all right? So we're gonna go probably another five minutes and we'll do it covered. That'll speed it up. And I'm gonna go ahead and add the rest of my sauce that I have here. And I'm just gonna pour it in, spread it around so it's easier to distribute. And that makes it taste super yummy. Now you're gonna wanna stir that in. Okay, once it's combined, looks like it's pretty well combined, cover it up again. All right, I've been cooking this another about four minutes or so. I'm gonna check it. I think it looks pretty good.  That looks like that's done to me. Broccoli's got a nice little crispness to it. Looks perfect. All right, what we're gonna do now is add the turkey back to this and stir it in. We wanna make sure it's nice and hot. Everything in here is hot, so this looks so good, guys. And it makes a nice batch. And believe me, you'll eat a ton of this. It's so tasty. I'm just gonna let it heat up a little bit and then we're ready to serve this up. Here's our dish, quick and easy. And I tell you, it's just, it's super simple, right? I mean, it didn't take very long to cook. It's healthy, it's flavorful. I'm gonna mention something you can add to the sauce to this that adds a new addition to it if you want to. Now, recently I posted a video on how to make chicken wings hot and spicy, and I used date paste, okay? So I really like date paste a whole bunch. It's just, it's an incredible sweetener. I think it's much healthier for you than sugar and you have a lot of vitamins and, you know, all the good stuff in there. So anyway, you can add, make a little extra of that sometime, date paste, and you can add that to this just like a tablespoon. A heaping tablespoon would be plenty. Gives it just a subtle hintness of sweetness that is just delicious. So I'm gonna make a video on how to make the date paste so stay tuned for that. You won't want to miss that. All right, guys, let's serve this up and I get to eat it. I'm, of course, famished. Can't wait to chow down. Here we go. I almost forgot sesame seeds. If you like sesame seeds, you can garnish it a little bit on top with some sesame seeds. That's always a nice addition, a little crunch. But that is delicious, guys. The sauce, simple ingredients, not too many, but it's that sesame oil that I really love. Gives this just a wonderful flavor. I hope you try it. Very good. I can't wait to just devour this whole thing. And like I said, you make it a fair amount. So I hope you guys enjoyed the video, the recipe, and, you know, leave me a comment. Let me know what you think. Let me know if you're gonna try it and subscribe to my channel if you haven't. And don't forget that notification bell that'll notify you when my new videos come out. Thanks again for watching, everybody. We'll see you next time. Take care.


Hello my friends and welcome to the 21st episode of Patterson in Pursuit. This is another very special episode for three distinct reasons. First of all, we're talking about consciousness and the philosophy of mind again today, which is one of my perennial favorite topics. The second reason is because of my guest. To join me in talking about the philosophy of mind is Dr. John Searle, who is a world famous philosopher, author of at least 25 different books translated into at least 20 different languages, the author of countless professional articles over many decades, and entertaining philosopher who tries to be clearly understood, which is something of a rarity in the world of philosophy. Dr. Searle is known for his own unique answer to the mind-body problem. His theory is called biological naturalism, and that is what we're talking about today. But before we get to the interview, I want to tell you the third reason why I'm super excited about this particular episode. So because Patterson in Pursuit has been well received by you guys, and the audience is consistently growing, I decided it's about time that I look for a sponsor. The difficulty is there's a very, very short list of organizations or products that I would even feel comfortable mentioning on this podcast, much less endorsing. But I did reach out to a company that is literally number one on my list, and they've agreed to become sponsors of the next several episodes of this show. So as you guys know, I'm not exactly the biggest fan of academia. There are certainly some bright spots for sure, and there's certainly some intellectuals doing good work out there. But I think in the next decade or so, you're going to see the obsolescence of the modern form of academia. So most people have assumed for decades that if you want to get a good job, you have to go and get a college degree, but that is actually not true anymore. If you're in college right now and you're unimpressed with your college experience or you want to avoid college altogether, you are not alone. And there is an alternative, and it's the company called Praxis. Praxis will lend you a paid apprenticeship. They teach you real-world job skills that you don't get in academia.  And the net cost of the program is precisely zero. So if that sounds like an alternative that you're interested in or that resonates with you, then head over to discoverpraxis.com. That's P-R-A-X-I-S. And on their homepage, they have a big button that says Schedule a Call. Go ahead, click it, talk to them and see if it's a good fit. Now, I personally know the founders of this organization. I give them the highest of marks. And I think they are at the very cutting edge of what you might call the obsolescence of academia. But like I said earlier, not all academics are wasting their time in academia. And for this interview, we plunge right back into Thick of Things with Dr. John Searle of the University of California Berkeley. We're talking about the philosophy of mind and his own unique resolution to the mind-body problem. He says scientific materialism is wrong, dualism is wrong, and he tries to find a middle ground. So first of all, Dr. Searle, I want to thank you for taking the time to talk with me today. Well, happy to know it. I have lots of questions for you. You have been in the philosophy world for many decades now. And what you're known for is some work you did in the philosophy of language and some work you do in the philosophy of mind. And I'd like to talk to you about the philosophy of mind. Okay. Specifically, what I do in my own thinking and in these interviews is I always want to start with the basics. I think people get too wrapped up talking about advanced concepts before they even established the basics. So if we could, can you talk a little bit just about why we should care about consciousness at all? We have a very powerful scientific worldview that everything appears to be reducible to physics. Well, of course. Anything, yeah? Well, the interesting thing is consciousness is, roughly speaking, co-extensive with our life. The parts of our life that matter to us are either those that are conscious like you and I are now having, or those that create consciousness like our health and the state of our body and the state of our brain. So it isn't just that consciousness is important. It's the condition of anything having any importance is it's important to consciousness. So if you think the political election is important, it's because you think it's going to affect the lives of a whole lot of conscious people. If everybody was a zombie totally without consciousness, there'd be no importance. So it isn't just that consciousness is important. It's the condition of anything being important. I see. Now, is there anything that is going on that we should pay special attention to? So we see all kinds of physical phenomena in the world. We have a theory of the physical world works a certain way. We think it operates under certain principles. But it doesn't have this feature of consciousness. Well, it does. I mean, this is a big mistake in our culture is to suppose that somehow consciousness is not a part of the physical world. It is. It's a physical part of the physical world going on in our brains. And we have a tradition that says, no, no, there are two parts of the world. There's a physical part and there's a conscious part. That's wrong. Consciousness is part of the biological reality. And that is to say, it's part of the physical reality. However, since this vocabulary of physical and mental was designed to oppose each other, let's just get rid of the word physical and just say, consciousness is part of the real world. It's part of our biology. It's caused by brain processes and goes on in our brain. And it's a crucial part of our biology. And you said earlier that you thought it's left out of physics, not really. Now, physics properly understood, if you think of physics as a totality of the natural sciences, then that includes biology. And biology includes consciousness. OK, so the reason I think a lot of people like myself get tripped up by this is when we're trying to explain physical phenomena, we have no reason to interject anything like awareness or feeling. Yeah, well, it depends on how thorough you're going to be. If you're just going to explain the structure of the molecule, you don't have to talk about awareness. If you're going to talk about the totality of reality, the totality of reality includes biology. And that means it includes life. It includes photosynthesis. It includes digestion. All of those are parts of reality. And along with photosynthesis and digestion is another biological phenomena, namely human and animal consciousness. It goes on in human and animal brains. And as I was pointing out earlier, desperately important. Civilization is created by consciousness. Now, you said earlier that you think it's a big mistake that philosophers have kind of divided the world into the total disaster. There are two twin mistakes, and they pretend to be opposed to each other, but in fact, they're the same mistake. One is the tradition of God, the soul, and immortality. And the other is the tradition of scientific materialism. They both make the same mistake. They both say, consciousness is not an ordinary part of the physical world. So God, the soul, and immortality says there's a separate realm, the conscious realm. And scientific materialism says, well, either there is no such thing as consciousness, or if it is, it's not really a part of the real world. It's not part of the world of molecules, electrons, and photosynthesis. And I'm saying it's obvious that it's part of the real world. It's a biological part. And all consciousness, known consciousness, at least exists in human and animal brains, and it's caused by brain processes. So we've got these twin idiotic traditions, and they both make the same mistake of refusing to recognize consciousness as a real part of the real world. OK, yeah. I think if we're using real world in that way, I think that makes a great deal of sense. However. There's no other way to use it. The real world includes everything that really exists, and consciousness exists. OK, I agree with that. So a question that I have for you, because I've not been able to sort this out, I have for many years called myself a reluctant dualist because I wish I weren't, because I think it implies some things that I wish it didn't. So I hope that you can help me sort through this. Yeah, but dualism is so idiotic, it's hardly worth stating. But anyway, a lot of our dualists would go ahead. OK, OK. So let's talk about the actual status of conscious state. So you say, is it the case that consciousness is fundamentally something that is spatially located somewhere in space? And with MRI, you can actually see the spatial location of conscious processes in your brain.  So consciousness is spatially located. It has spatial dimensions. And furthermore, it's like all machine processes. It's defined by energy transfers at electrochemical level.  But there's a lot of good work going on on brain processing right now. OK, so is it something, when you say that it has some kind of spatial location, does that mean it's something like a liquid, something physical actual? It's a level feature of the brain. Well, it's like liquid in the sense that liquidity is not a separate substance secreted by molecules. So consciousness is not a separate juice secreted by the brain. It's a condition that the brain is in. OK, so when you say that it's a higher level. Yeah, it means it's a level of neurons and synapses. There are some features of the whole system. The same way you can't say of any water molecule that this one is liquid. Nonetheless, liquidity is a feature of the whole system. A molecule, so consciousness, a feature of the whole brain. So in your metaphysical worldview, you have different states of ontological status. You have base level. And then on top of that, you have something that's kind of categorically higher. And then you have like a striation of different types. Areas of dependence. Life depends on big carbon-based molecules, for example. Consciousness depends on neuronal structures. So you do have dependency relations. But these are all real features. Life is a real feature of the world. So what do you think about this way of thinking? This is kind of my own personal way of thinking about different levels of ontology. And I think it would disagree with yours, but I wonder what your response would be. When we're talking about things in the universe, it may be true that you see different phenomena that is dependent on lower level phenomena, base phenomena. But fundamentally, what exists, all that exists, is just the base level phenomena. It's just as bad. Base level phenomena are organized into systems when the systems have higher level features, like solidity and liquidity, that are not features of the base level phenomena. So for solidity and liquidity, I would say something like, those are words that we use to describe some higher level status. But it's fundamentally, its existence is something that's conceptual. Solidity isn't actually a feature of the physical world. It is a feature of the physical world. If it weren't, I wouldn't be leaning against this desk right now. Solidity is a real feature of the real world. It's causally explained by the behavior of lower level elements, and it is a feature of whole systems made up of those elements. So the table is solid. Why does it behave in a solid fashion? Well, roughly speaking, when I lean on it, the electrons push back, and the system of electrons adds up to solidity. In the same way, the system of neuron firings adds up to consciousness. But solidity itself isn't some independent thing that's in the universe. There's consciousness in that sense of independent.  It's a feature of the brain the same way as solidity is a feature of the system of molecules. Okay, so fundamentally, would you say that the base level constituent parts of the universe have in their nature the potential for conscious awareness? Absolutely, no question. I mean, that's trivially true. We know that's true because it happened. So when I say something like that, it makes me think of like a panpsychism. No, no, no, no, no panpsychism.  Panpsychism says everything is conscious. Well, no, how could it be? Consciousness requires very specific mechanisms, and you might do it without neurons, but you've got to duplicate the causal powers of neurons, and I don't know how you do that. Yes, okay. So not panpsychism as understood as everything is literally conscious. I think my understanding was every bit of the universe has whatever constituent prerequisites that are required to elicit consciousness. Well, that seems to me not only implausible, but really preposterous because consciousness, as far as we know it, is created by very specific kinds of neurobiological phenomena, namely big systems of neurons, and those are very special kind of cells, and the electrons in a jar of water just don't have anything like it. Yes, but if you were to break all of those objects down into the constituent parts and rearrange those constituent parts, you could still create something like conscious awareness. So on earth, would you do that?   That's the conscious feature of systems. It's not a feature of electrons. So the consciousness is not actually a feature of electrons. It's something. There's no conscious electron. There is no conscious electron. Okay, so one thing that I think we'll come back to this a little bit. I'd like to talk about one other feature of consciousness which is subjectivity. It appears to be that. A feature, that's the essence. The essence of consciousness is there's something that it feels like to be in any conscious state. And for that reason, any conscious state is only exists insofar as there's some subject that has it as a feature of its awareness. So subjectivity is an essential feature of consciousness because it is what it's like feature, what it feels like. Okay, so would you say that there are two different types of ontological status? You have things which are ontologically objective and things which are ontologically subjective. Is that fair to say? Well, okay, but I don't reluctant to put it that way because that makes it look like we're getting on the verge of dualism. I don't want to say that. My existing conscious state has all sorts of features that are ontologically objective. But nonetheless, there are some that are ontologically subjective because that's the definition of consciousness. So those which are ontologically subjective, can we talk a little bit about those? Sure, yeah, processes that have this feature, there's something that feels like to be in those processes. So right now I'm thinking about a philosophical question and there's a certain subjective qualitative feel to that and that's the subjectivity we've been talking about. That's going on in the brain and it's essentially tied to a whole lot of brain processes and those are ontologically objective in the sense that you can observe them on a FMRI, you can measure their electrochemical processes. So you would say it would be inaccurate to claim that all phenomena in the universe are fundamentally can be understood as being ontologically objective? Well, obviously there's some features that are ontologically subjective, that's why we're having this conversation. So can you explain a bit how that doesn't result in something like a dualism? Because if I were to take it. What happens is there is a existing higher level feature of the brain, there are existing features of the brain that cause and sustain certain forms of subjectivity in the brain. Where's the dualism? So it implies there are two separate realms and that's not right. There's one realm that has a level of description where it is conscious and has another level of description where it's a neurobiological process. Those two levels of description are one and the same event. So are you saying then the ontological distinction between subjective and objective is purely descriptive? Well, of course it describes a fact and it describes an actual fact, but it doesn't describe two different ontological realms. See, look, when I raise my arm, there's a description of the event where it's subjective. I'm trying to raise my arm. The very same event has a description where it consists of a whole lot of neuron firings and the secretion of acetylcholine at the axon end plates of the motor neurons. And there are not two different events there. There's one event with different levels of description. However, the description describes real features. I see. So when talking about ontology, you would say that ontological distinctions fundamentally are about description, that it's a valid description to say. No, they're not about description. They're about the world described by the descriptions. Well, if that's the case though, it seems like you have some type of existence which is ontologically subjective. Oh, that's right. You do have features of this event that are electrochemical and features that are subjective. One event. One event, but two description, not two ontological. No, no, the description described different ontological features. Well, as I said, when I raise my arm, there's a secretion of acetylcholine and there's a subjective feel, okay? Now, those are not two separate events. They're one and the same event described at different levels. In the same way when I drive my car, one and the same event that can be described as the oxidization of hydrocarbons or as an explosion in the cylinder. One event, two different levels of description. The description described real features. Okay, so if we take this perspective, this one event, two descriptions, two features, can we talk a little bit about what it actually feels like to be in a subjective state?  And that's a conscious event. Raising my arm is something I consciously do. Exactly, so something that seems, I think, inescapably presupposed when talking about how it feels to be in a particular state is what it means to be a being, like a person or a subject that is experiencing a particular phenomenon. So does this theory, how do you explain what a being or a person or a subject itself is? Well, now there's a separate question here. The question is, does the existence of a conscious state presuppose a self? Yeah, right. And that's a separate question. Conscious states no doubt exist. In order to have a conscious state, you have to have a self. And there it depends on what you mean by the self. You do have to have a minimal self if a self consists of a unified conscious field. And I think you do have to have that much otherwise. I couldn't have the present experience of raising my arm. However, a lot of people want much more than that and that's contentious. We haven't got to that yet. That's a separate question. Okay, could we talk a little bit about the self being understood as a unified subject? There has to be, the conscious field that I have when I raise my arm that comes as part of a unified conscious field that consists, for example, the intention I had prior and the experience I'm having and the memory of the experience that occurs afterwards. And without an organized conscious field, I doubt very much that you could have what we think of as normal conscious experiences. You'd get a kind of pathology where motor behavior would break down. You wouldn't be able to raise your arm. So you do have to have a unified conscious field. Having a unified conscious field, would you say that is a satisfactory definition of what the self is at least for these purposes? No, so many different definitions of the self. I wouldn't know where to start. I'm not sure that the self is a useful notion in this discussion because it means two to many different things to too many different people. But let's just talk about the unified conscious field which is unified both laterally and horizontally that goes both forward and backwards in time. So you need some kind of a notion of a present experience and some sort of projection and memory to organize it. And that's all we need for this. Now, whether or not you, to what extent you have to have a self and what's the sense the self is unified? Those are hard questions and we don't need to answer them just to get up the nature of consciousness. Okay. Why is the reason that so many scientists and intellectuals kind of recoil at the idea that when we're talking about mental states and consciousness, they think that immediately you're getting into the woo-woo and the spiritual and the mystical. Is this just a tradition?  One is the tradition of God, the soul and immortality and these guys think if you grant that consciousness is a part of a real part of the real world, you're in bed with God, the soul and immortality. And that's what I'm challenging. I'm saying, no, consciousness is a part of the real world but it's a biological part like digestion or photosynthesis. Of course it's a real part. We couldn't live our lives without it but it doesn't follow from that that it's in a separate realm. If we didn't have these idiotic traditions of God, the soul and immortality on one hand and scientific materialism on the other, then we would just recognize the obvious facts of consciousness and the feature of our biology. Okay, and I think maybe one of the hesitations that people have has to do with the role of observation in trying to explain phenomena. So would you say that these mental states or the actual state of awareness is something that is an externally observable phenomena? What you externally observe are both the neurobiological substrates and the physical behavior but the actual experience itself is not a subject of observation because it has this essentially first person ontology. I can see that you're awake but I cannot see your inner feelings. I can't see the feeling, the wakefulness that you have. So, and then we're talking about that. We're talking about those particular feelings or those particular states that are non-observable. The idea that science is about the observable is of course absolutely crazy because most of the things that we interested in science like quarks, leopards, muons are not observable but we have very good reasons as opposed to exist because they function causally. Right. And you can't observe consciousness in this sense of observe. You can't observe it. You can observe its effects but you can't observe consciousness. The same way you can't observe subatomic particles which you can observe their effects. Okay, so if you can't observe the mental states then I thought that the idea was fundamentally they are spatially located. So, if they are spatially located wouldn't we in principle be able to observe them? Well, you can observe the effects that they have on nervous systems or rather form of their realization. So, with a FMRI you can see this is where the guy's thinking about the Tower of Hanoi problem.  That's where the thought process is going on. You can observe the location of the thought process but the actual subjective experience is not itself an object of observation not even for the guy having. But the subjective experience is something which is certainly existent but. That's right. Is it, does it have a spatial representation the actual experience? Of course.  That's one of the beauty of the current events. It doesn't that mean. I'm sorry, doesn't that mean it's observable though? I mean, if you can see. Okay, what counts is observing it. Yes, you can observe it. You can see, look, I mean, the experimenter's gonna say, look, right there in the brain that's where the guy's thinking about the Tower of Hanoi problem. That's all right. I don't know just by saying that. But you're not seeing the actual. The actual subjective experience is not itself an object of vision by some third person. But it is located. Of course. I mean, we actually now have enough evidence to tell you exactly where it's located. So would you say that there are some objectively existent things which have spatial location and yet cannot be located by an external observer. You can locate there. Yes, you can see the spatial location. What you're asking though is a category mistake that is you see the subjective experience. No, you don't. What you see is the spatial location of the subjective experience. You can see its dimensions. You can see how wide it is and where it occurs in the brain, but you don't see the experience itself. I agree. I definitely agree with that, but. So how does anybody disagree? This is just something that's the end. Yes, but for me, it's that pulls me into something like a dualism because what I would say is there are some real.  Suppose we just had sort of contemporary scientific knowledge, then we would recognize the following. Consciousness is a normal biological phenomenon like digestion. You can locate it in the brain. We're getting more and better accounts of its neurobiological explanation, and you can see its extension in the brain. You can see exactly where thought process is recorded. What's that? Now, all of that seems to be totally uncontroversial. Forget about dualism and all that stuff. That's all ancient history. Okay, okay. So if we don't use the terminology dualism, what I'd say is that leads me to believe something like the following. That parts of existence are essentially personal. They are essentially subjective. And what that means is there are two types of, at least two types of mutually exclusive phenomena which exist. Well, no, they're not mutually exclusive. You cannot have the experience of raising your arm without all of the neurobiology. And there's one event, as you're showing by the fact, you can't have one part without the other. You cannot have the experience of raising your arm without the separation of acetylcholine and you can't have that particular neurobiological process without the consciousness. Okay, so maybe mutually exclusive is in the term. It would be something like, they are descriptively mutually exclusive in the sense that just by explaining one in more and more detail, you are certainly not explaining the other. So just by explaining more and more brain processes. The fact that you're not talking about doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There's a single event. It has two different sets of features in a single event, but it's not two separate events. So for me, it would be something like if this is true, it implies that the conceptual toolbox we have to reference things which exist in the world has to expand bigger than what the traditional scientific materials and physical toolbox is.  And both idiotic in exactly the same way. They both fail to see that qualitative, subjective states of conscious awareness are an ordinary part of the biological world. Okay. Yes, I don't know if I'd be comfortable saying that they're idiotic, but I would say they're definitely unsatisfactory if you're trying to explain everything.  Okay, I'll just ask you one more question. And this is actually gonna be a question coming from the philosophy of mind and I'm gonna be dragging you into epistemology because part of the questions that I've been asking people as I'm traveling around has to do with certainties or anything, any proposition you can be absolutely certain to and if so, how's that even possible? So the question I would ask for you, I think I know your answer, but can you be absolutely 100% certain that consciousness is in existence, that there is such a thing as conscious experience? Of course, yes. The point is, the way you have doubts is you have doubts about whether or not your conscious experiences actually represent something independent, is there really a person over there in the bushes or is it just the shadows? That's a real doubt, but the conscious experience doesn't admit doubts about its existence. So your worldview includes absolute 100% infallible certainty. It's not worth using these traditional epistemic notions at all. Of course, am I absolutely certain that I'm now conscious? How could I be mistaken? Okay, well, on that note, I really wanna thank you for talking with me, this has been a great conversation. Okay, good, thanks a lot, fun talking. Thanks, Dr. Searle. Okay, bye-bye. So that was my interview with Dr. John Searle. I hope you guys enjoyed it. There's a lot more to say of this particular topic. I have a lot more to say on this particular interview, actually, I'll make sure at some point in the future to do a interview breakdown specific to this conversation I have with Dr. Searle. And I intend to do many more interviews on this topic to get a bunch of different perspectives. If you value this interview and you think this work is important, then please go to patreon.com slash Steve Patterson and you can become a patron of the show, which means you're directly helping to make this show possible. I deeply appreciate all your support and I hope that it is creating value for you. That's all for me today. I hope you guys had a fantastic week.