And it's great.  I wouldn't be The guy I am now, you know doing the job that I love talking to great people like you With a family that I just never could have bloody dreamt about and and and I've achieved all my go You know pretty much all my goals really But I Get a lot of messages following like the Falklands podcasts this sort of thing from Young people sell Chris. You mentioned my dad in your podcast He died in the so-and-so or you know, he was in a chopper that went down in the folk And my message to all of them my reply is Come on the show Yeah, these are the stories we need to hear not not the heroes running up mountains Black, you know, black and off rounds at Argentinians or whatever it is that that's you know, you can get that in any Rambo film You know I know, you know, we we need to hear the real cost of war Um and not not just in a war context, but as parents we need to know how to deal with our children and and and what You know the slightest thing that you do Badly can impact upon them You know For their lives so when you came forward and said your dad was a boot neck.  I'm just delighted to have you on the show And can I just take this moment to anybody else out there if If you have a similar story to Sean's Um And you want to come on the show. Yes, please please do because When you won't run away from trauma your whole life because oh god, I would you know It what what that does in our brain is it cements the flight or flight fight or flight mechanism That like chatting with a guy on the podcast is like the worst thing in the world. It's going to kill us And that programs our brain to think that that's a threat, right when it's not it's just two guys like we are now having a chat um and This is the effect. This is the nature of trauma is it is it really screws people up for life And a lot of people spend that life then just running away from anything that might be slightly uncut and and it It's all bad programming. So What i'm trying to say is mate is congratulations on I think being the first that actually went. Yeah, I'll come on the show um perhaps that's Partly due into fact that we're shipmates you you served in the navy um But welcome mate Cheers, thank you 4 a.m. April the 2nd 1982 Argentine navy cameraman filmed their invasion of the fulcrum islands Frogmen landed first from a submarine followed later by the main assault force Now The situation as you might hear is that the radio station has now been taken over If you take the gun out of my back, I'm gonna transmit it here, but i'm not speaking with the gun in my back By 7 a.m. After fierce fighting government house was completely surrounded In london There were rowdy scenes in parlor swiftly followed by resignations the government turned to the armed forces Yes, what what what did you do in the navy other than you know kiss boys? Actually, I mean my trade was survival equipment. So I worked so closely with aircrew and stuff like that I mean I did some live survival and some sea survival stuff So basically as an se you're packing life rafts parachutes and stuff and anything that you'd get aircrew to do You've got to do yourself. So obviously I never did stash training, but I did a r5 drills dunker Air four two seven which was running around new forests and then getting Strip naked afterwards and screaming child without interrogation Which is quite good actually because the interrogation bit that was easy compared to The way the old man treated me. So I got marked above average for joint services interrogation organization So, yeah, I mean yet basically bread and butter is parachutes my brass and then pulled dry breeze pulled drills Sea drills working, you know the aircrew closely. So, yeah, I did a A few ships company drafts squadrons of 771 search and rescue everyone bounce around illustrious arc And then out in the Middle East a bit a man So it's a bit. Yeah, your bread and butter is sort of like life rafts and stuff But you can go on to do this one Get yourself to America or not So I did the training later on in life because what we used to be offered years ago was the combat survival instructor Which is what I think the last two weeks of selection So I as times have changed over the years. They changed it to all sear So I did I did a few sear courses and that but It's all suffice should have done in my earlier trade not like later on in life So I did them again. You think you're just going around again. You think I've done all this monarchy, but you know organizations change and it's like Yeah, all about and I did I actually I did have an opportunity to work with flip search group raw marines, but I was having some mental health problems and some marriage problems and I just said to I think the color side of war is that now's not a good time. So I've got new one rips and then went back to cold rose I picked my stuff with a wife and then had to move to cold room. So, yeah, I mean from the trauma aspect it has affected me with a lot of stuff, but Try not to let it beat me, you know bad peaks and force around my career and You know, I could have gone on to do other bits and pieces, but It is that impact. I think from seeing your old man come back from the forklings and It was it really wasn't good, you know, I think for me The age of 14 seen my dad grabbing on by the throat with a tea towel. We're in Paul Walsham place that uh Paul Marie quarters, so I had to leg up to the guard room and say I think my dad's trying to kill my mom. I was 14 at the time, but I'm not stone. That's 15 stone So I left out of bed screamed like a girl. You put the windows in in the Marie quarter the doors I've gone by the throat. I mean, what do you think you see that? I mean and it's Yeah, of course mate and and I know to a lot of people watching now um This is familiar territory may You know, this is this is domestic violence and um, exactly, you know Many people out there including myself have seen this. I'm just thinking mate. Should we not mention your surname? Um, not not because I don't want to do you any discredit But I don't want people to watch us and think like we're slagging off of the raw marines or any Now I know it's tricky isn't it and the thing is I mean, it's still obviously I'm not my dad's mates around I've been being at all kinds. You might know him. He's an excellent neighbour at pool There's Pete Rudford. He's now in Denmark. I think Mike Fletcher who's up in still an old bro for me a few years ago when in the British You know told me some uh stories and I left there in bits of Thanks, black. So yeah, honestly not not a problem.  I've studied it. I've worked it.  Oh, well, you know drug addicts they take all the drug.     Oh chris. I'm a military brat And I'm like, don't say that that's been programmed into you because you've been to so many different freaking schools You've been bullied so many different times that that you you think that you're I don't know what Maybe it's precocious bit or what It is part of you and it's not it's just a reaction to the trauma that you you've bloody been through as a As a child, but anyway So just tell me did you say dunker drills then or did did I Do dunker training that it's also for it's quite funny because obviously anything Do like obviously cool drill seed drills as an se when you're getting promoted like you have to go and do it Also, I don't see professional training and leadership training. So yeah working basically try to drown air crew Obviously the aircraft craft ditches Air crew need to know how to scale obviously I need the dunker they need to learn how to use a stass if your nbcd drills I think obviously a lot of the kits changed. I've been out in our years So yeah, it's basically you're trying to draw it drown air crew.  Yeah, you ever said I did the dunker I actually did it civilian as well because when I left the navy I was looking at Into the military security. That's why I did the the mursk stuff up at the Bozier course of an Aberdeen So yeah, it's all it's all right. I mean, I think the first drill I did actually It's only the first one. So you're not upside down or anything. So I I'm released too quick and found myself on top of the unit. I thought what you're doing So yeah, it does put a bit of fear. I mean I got me I mean I was a bit anxious at first when I did it and then when I did it for So the fuss about but also some of my mates weren't Wasn't that happy about it? And obviously we knew a lot of the safety divers as well So you're trying to escape the unit and they're trying to drag you back in by your feet Say you like cheers for that Mate we did it right I was so lucky I was so lucky in my time in the Marines because a I got to do two power courses, which is very unusual Won't go into that now, but anyone who's seen my previous podcast will know why But also and and also the paracourse thing I've got to just say this but in the Marines they think it's really odd Sean to get on a paracourse And it's not it's like literally you phone up the course and go can I come they go? Yeah come next week It's it's that freaking simple, right? So um There's that but the dunker drills thing we didn't do it in training. It's normally part of your 30 weeks at Limstam And for some reason Something crossed over and it was like sorry guys. We're not doing dunker drills. So of course you're all like Shit, you know But when I served on hms invincible Uh, it's a lot more relaxed and of course you can just phone people up and sort courses out and that's what we did We phoned up Yobleton We all went down there Put on no skateboard our wits and uh I'll just tell you one one funny thing so Down the friends at home. You've got this mock-up helicopter Airframe and you're all sat in it and there's a there's a doorway about yay big, you know two foot by two a foot by two foot it's it's Small and it's to simulate the window of the helicopter or the Port hole or whatever whatever it's supposed to be called and uh The machine goes down into the pool all the lights go out it spins around like And even up to three or four times And then in that disorientated mode while you're still trying to hold your breath You've got to wait for each guy to go out that That window one at a time. So if you're number three, you can't just go you got to wait for number one number two And then you go and we had one um We are one of these evolutions where we all came up. We're all Happy and dandy the lights come on But our corporal adi was missing And um in that moment you think he's drowned don't you you think oh my god, we've lost one You know survival of the fittest adi. I'm sorry mate, but come on no They pulled the machine out of water on the crane Adi's in the window going Hey He ain't had time to get out Incredible incredible, but um How was it for you mate and when you when your dad goes off down to fight a war? There's I mean it is weird because I mean obviously I think obviously I was going to school in uh We lived in Brieken at the time because obviously my dad was out So I got six weeks out of school. So basically my mom and me A m brother she went down to bromelix on i'm from bromelian kent not i've spent a lot of time there. So we went to So I'm from bromelian kent So yeah So yeah, it went down. You're supposed to say chris. You're awesome I've been a bromelian lately. It's changed quite a bit. It's not like don't remember it like it was in the 70s and 80s or But yeah, so basically went down to stay with like My aunt and uncle which was obviously my mom's Mom's brother and then obviously my grandparents were similar like at the time So it was just obviously so my mom could be closer family whilst obviously my dad was Transitioned down to forklifts and I hope it's quite I would say funny But I think I used to draw pictures to like people jumping out Aircraft with parachutes and stuff and shoot people out and obviously my dad would get this stuff I think it's the same Go look where something's sitting now. See like conflicts on the paper. But yeah, it was it was a big thing all right, it was only nine, but Even nine, you know what it was about. There's enough stuff on the news and stuff in the papers, you know and Yeah, it wasn't wasn't good for you. That's why obviously my mom thought it's best to take me out of school because it's quite a big thing so transitions back to bromely with a shed later homework for six weeks.  So Did you cry? When he went off to war I honestly can't remember. There's certain things I've blocked out. I think Honestly, I don't know. I do remember when he returned obviously, you know, he obviously Ball back to me when he come back I remember his face to this day when he come back because I think my auntie met him when he returned on the camera that's south I'm talking I think So my auntie went down Because obviously we're in Breakin so and then when he He come home.   Or someone picks you up from the airport.  But of course In with the Falklands. It's not freaking I beef her is it? It's it's very dark Like you don't want your money back if you went there, haven't you? What?  I think it was still a bit, you know, I think I do remember seeing windows and all broken Oh, I'm married cause I think I was about six. I remember him Probably still being a bit volatile. So I think he was of that nature anyway, because you know, I I'm Horrible to have to as a child, you know My granddad was in the RF and He'd lived out of that So I think before the Falklands, it was a bit of a problem And when I lived in Malta, I think that was for what I lived in Malta And obviously I don't remember all stuff seeing the pictures But my mum said that he was a bit But then and this you know, I was sort of about I don't want to So we're certain traits and behaviors and aggression, etc We see conflicts and depending what you're witnessing It's Relationship, I think he tried because I said I used to spend a lot of time Offering condos workshops and that was great. I've paid him toy cars and I've done welding stuff and beating stuff with an anvil But just every now and then you do something he just Flash big stuff. It's like a mercury tilt switch. You know what I mean?  So he's clearly He's experienced this as a child.  It's horrible. It wasn't great.   I don't know be able to know good what we're going to swim in rivers You know playing fields and stuff and I had some good friends and I never it's weird because I never really spoke about a lot of stuff because Yes, you're in the 70s 80s teachers were that good either you get a slap on the head locked in cupboards Guys well, it's like I don't want to talk to you know Make I'm just sorry. I'm I'm talking a lot because I just want to make sense of all this I know exactly what you're talking about Childhood in 70s Was very abusive school was incredibly Yeah, you know Some of the things that teachers did to me in school If they were to do that in this day, they'd get like five to eight years in prison No question no question, you know, but back then it was completely acceptable And of course for somebody like yourself You don't need to be having this abuse in school because you're already Going through This nightmare at home Yeah And it's it's the ultimate in unfair right Yeah, it wasn't great, but like I said, it's weird because I I think I was quite resilient for you. I scrapped at school, especially when you're moving from say like Climber up to Scotland or extra they're back down in the door saying you you speak like a joke You say I'm from Bromley and Ken. I was forever fighting and You know I get into some Going back when I was a young age.  I've just had four lads three years older than me beat the shit out of me You know me and I'm coming home get a new one ripped I'm like, this is great, but I think I did.  She met me dad before he passed away. Let me mum and I said look I first met wife. I said, I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing So I explained a bit about the childhood everything the jaw went up She couldn't believe it And he's always tried to get me to stay in touch for a moment.  I remember stuff like that I remember reading a few bits and pieces. So yeah, I'd seen a few bits and pieces But I wouldn't say I wouldn't have to wait to watch it I think for me it was just like as long as I can write to him get some dodgy pictures sent to him and That's that's my bit because again, you know, it's It's quite a bit to get your head round and I said, I can't remember Everything from I knew where I lived. Obviously when the fall was kicked off Breakin in far a briefing in scotland. Obviously angus And obviously coming back and it just has each year went by how my dad got progressively worse, you know, I mean and I see them You know, it was it was each year. I'll say I know he still tried because I know when We'd left scotland and it was Drafted to pool, you know, things were pretty bad at pool But you would still say like don't come to workshops. So I'd go a metal ship metal smith workshops and then Put some witness and stuff or I go and spend a bit of time with the illustrators going like drawing and stuff So it was good, but then it wasn't you know Yeah, it's weird. It's just so complex. It's like how can you like hate somebody and love someone? But that's how I felt and you know I don't a listen look every little boy. Sorry girls out there. I'm I'm I'm talking as a little boy.  You can't make sense of it and what so what you do is you internalize you think oh, I'm wrong I'm I've done, you know, this is me And then we carry that for lives until we finally Run ourselves into the ground in my case. It was through chronic addiction Um, I know you've got your story Sean and that when we reach that bottom moment fortunately um If we don't kill ourselves first We have a moment when let's just fucking call it god speaks to us or mother nature sends us an epiphany and and and We wake up and we realize hang on this isn't our fault This isn't We've done nothing in this, you know nothing and yet we're carrying this burden and we got to stop it now We got to start looking after ourselves and you know loving ourselves in the way that that We weren't when we were kids and we and um and that's that's why you see people make You know huge huge changes in their life and and you know I'm talking to someone now that that clearly has but But I want to take this one step at a time mate because I'm I'm you know, I'm I'm equally curious, but I'm equally keen to You know get get the full picture here. So had anybody made it clear to you That like your dad's in an elite force You know, I don't expect they'd say the nature of the scraps he's going to get into down there, but That he might not come back I don't think anyone actually did actually I think I was aware of it. I think it's weird I think I was quite perceptual as an idea. I was thinking yeah, if he's going there I might not see him again. I think I was aware of that. I didn't think anybody had to spell out You know, I think I was aware see raw marine's do etc And it was always funny because being at school when you had to write about what what did that? So I'll see raw marine goes on exercise blah blah blah blah blah And so yeah, I think it was aware. I didn't need people telling me that You might not come back.  I expect Yeah, I've got it Without I don't want to give any like personal detail away, but was he scrapping on the mountains down there? It's a bit I mean I found some suckers Because I know he's four five enough. I think in that would be an announcement I think they're attached to the logistics and that but I do remember Fletch saying a few bits and pieces. Obviously when they're obviously shooting a aircraft as I'll see shot a few things out the sky etc and then obviously Changing out that etc and just people getting blown to bits or I think there was some ship stuff as well I was like it's because obviously I got a lot of this when I was older, you know, I mean that's probably about Just before the Navy etc and he said about people getting blown to bits One minute somebody's there the next minute they're gone. This is either we're on a ship or shore side.  But then I think going back is Stuff the damage was already done with my dad a while ago and obviously the Marines does like to breathe aggression but obviously channeled aggression. It's not about obviously Going out Well, that was another thing. He did like you'll dust off at the pop coming back with black eyes, etc So obviously that's another thing in the mix. Don't pull that out dad. You fly out there and Yeah, it's it's all I was having a chat about because obviously I don't want to say oh, yeah he was you know any of you've all whatever but you know That's how we Yeah, but we've already established mate. He you know, he was a damaged person like and and I I'm exactly the same as your dad.  You know, I rather You know try to get some truth out there and You know We've already established that your dad's most well, you know, it's not it's not for me to say but If I had was a better man, I'd say I think he's Added quite a damaged childhood himself.  And the pub was the big thing for a lot of people's trauma, wasn't it? Yeah Yeah, so I do remember because it's weird because I went back to our growth area about 12 years ago I went to the rosy louis hotel and that was a A thing that it was a response for a lot of roommates But they got back from the fork and there's a bit of lunchtime drinking etc I think one of the owners is still there because the family got business at the time Obviously, they're they're outside and then obviously there's a car backfired at about four or five Boonex hit the deck because obviously they are affected because they're thinking something's going on But yeah, this lady said to me, you know, what happened?  He's just like Nicest guy you could ever Got to try not to get upset here, but I went on our Facebook messages, you know and um the last picture of him was Holding up my books and great read chris. Thank you, mate, you know and and he was a high-ranking non-commissioned officer.   It doesn't work. We're 300 suicides a year And god knows how many in the usa. It's clearly not what um Which and again, it's why I'm I'm so grateful shorn that you've come on the show, you know No, thank you. Thank you for the environment I mean, obviously, I you know, jeffery is from obviously veterans. You know, I get since I saw obviously I reached out to him So I'm trying to do a better work for him. So obviously and I think it's I've been working in health and social care for about six years. So I've anything from learning disabilities to autism Homelessness and then obviously I did a brief spell with nhs, you know working psychiatric units at various hospitals Homeless patient advisor, they'd learn into splitting autism team and do a bit of full work But I've been working for core rural community charity since July last year and obviously my job is massive and varied And do deal. I do give some referrals from our courage. I've got somebody I'm working with now, which I'm trying to get sorted out And it's just trying to link all that stuff up. But it's still disjointed and it's not working, you know So I'm in the process of trying to reach out to other cic's, etc You know people like jeff, you know Everyone to try and put it together just so you've got more of a layered safety net because people are still sleeping in there and People aren't talking. I mean a lot of my my clients are mental health and I can build up a good rapport ready then signpost and some people you have to They just don't want to talk and then it might be text Phone call email that might fall down. You can't contact them.  I was like and it's I think it resonates with a lot of people obviously It's close to a lot of people some people block out and I'll talk about it But I think talking here if you get somebody to talk that's half the battle But he's getting our person to talk Sean do Where did your dad come back to did he come back on the Canberra? Yeah, it's definitely you definitely come back on the camera. Yeah, because When he come back, I love I've got a souvenir brochure of the Canberra Also, I had some algae gizzards as well some folding shovel and an Argentinian's helmet and a book in Canberra I thought I think it's really a little bit different than you know, I mean those little glossy brochure Yes, could you imagine if the Canberra had a full contingent of holiday makers on it at the time They sorry folks would we're not going to Barbados. We've got a divert to an island called the Falklands in the south Atlanta and by the way You're in the middle of a war Well, I would have been carrying down at Falklands. That would have been a carry on film Of the worst variety. Yes Yes, but let's again, I'm going to give another shout I think I did this with when I spoke to Jeff Williams the other day um They were civilians on those cruise liners that you know, they weren't big, roughy toughy rule marines They they they were stewards getting handed a gpmg and saying How do I fire it? Not not because they didn't want to but because they wanted to they were like tell me how I can support the boys, you know Incredible my my cousin um Hello, Brian if you ever get to watch this my cousin was the lead stewart on a qe2 all right, you know Funny actually anyone that remembers wicker's world You know they did it. They did a qe2 special and my cousin was the captain of the football team at the time But uh, yeah, Brian was down there.  He's a stewart on a cruise liner um Amazing so Your dad come back into was it southampton, wasn't it? I'm pretty sure because my auntie Margaret is sister.  We were back in uh, yeah Scotland And I'm sure yeah, we were yeah, so I think Maggie She went and seen him And you're all you're all excited to see your dad and you're saying that he just wasn't you know, he couldn't be there Yeah, but the thing is obviously the transition down there Obviously the conflict and then transition back and then obviously traveling then from southampton back up to scotland Probably would have been a nice potter's bone shake on it back to buddy four or five whatever and then Probably they're no dry for him back to breakin.  You can remember it like it's yesterday Yeah, there is it's weird is what I do Certain things I obviously I can't remember and other things that are clear as day, you know, I mean, you know what he was wearing so I think When he used to get to work say where there's obviously Potties on his stuff. I'm used to come back before before the complex I would take his parties off and stuff like that's things I did, you know, this is just like bonding time who is So they were good times, but then I just think Again as the years Passed it just that started to leave me. I think because it was just Not a good place to be so that's behavior got more Aggressive and violent as the years went on Yeah, definitely.  There was no way I would speak to him I mean, yeah, I don't I've lost my ride before and I've let people hang on a minute That sounds familiar. But yeah, it was.  You're going to get up to no good But I don't think I was that bad to be honest. It wasn't so like my brother was a bit more problematic but again, you know is I'm not really eight years older than my brother So I'd witnessed a few more bits and pieces before he did and then over time when because of The dysfunctional family my brother had to go to a corrected boarding school in Ramsey because nobody could handle him in School and my brother is very damaged.  He's Was this a drinking thing or something? No, I know this is obviously when he was When my dad ended his life in 96, he'd overdosed on coproximal. So my brother tried reviving him White spew come out and stuff and then things I was lucky. I was basically cold. I was 24 not 16, you know, I think Can we just take this one step at a time? You say coproximal. You don't mean co-cold anymore No, it's coproximal It what kind of meds is that if we can just paint it because obviously I don't Familiar with df1h that's even to be quite a good thing for boot necks when they're in pain. So I didn't know coproximal was opiate based And I'm not trying to be pedantic here folks. It's it's just I suppose it's very similar to overdosing on paracetamol which is a bit stronger than that I mean, I don't know the ins and outs of it But it was definitely coproximal because that's what he's described because he had, you know, a bad left He had a knee operation in the Marines, which wasn't the best Hang on. It's yeah, it's it's dextro Propoxaphen hydrochloride. So it's um in the opiate family.   It was it was intentional because he tried in 95 I was doing the cenotaph and Lord Mayor show in 95 and I tried to get over To go and see him. I spoke to one of the phone.  I was basically cold roads at the time I went to Mottingham. That's where we were living and I found half a suicide note and it started I mean, I think my brother was my mum moved out. So I'm staying in this house where it happened and I found a suicide note you could see I said, sorry can't hack it anymore and then the let did just And then that was that And there was still voicemail messages on the phone as well. So I'd be picking the phone up without phoning And then dad's voice is still on the phone So, yeah, it was definitely intentional because obviously 95 he tried it and then He obviously got pissed up and popping meds, but if you leave in a suicide note or half of one, then you You pass pass away, then that's that And it like say it was the coroner's report was he death by suicide or Yeah, I thought it's um I'm Sorry to push the point, but was it I'm kind of assuming your dad was drinking He drank a lot. I mean the thing is he was I know, I mean when he was in Sydney he worked for a 24 hour recovery company So obviously he wasn't drinking and driving.  I've I've held back. So no, I'm not getting into this You're my dad.  I mean, that's also one of the reasons I joined the military Sean are you Are you aware now?    It's not that You recognize this, right?  It's it's seeing that person as as as the extension and and But I also want to say Is that doesn't take away the love that they feel for you It yeah, you know It's it's a It's a curse for them You know I knew all that because I think it's fingers. Well, I think I'm trying to think because I mean I did I did field gun in 96 I was up at old school. My dad did come up to old school. I mean, I was injured I crushed my fingers So I was working on the bubbles and we don't come up.  I think I went up back up by myself just to see him And we sat down and had a few words and he said I'm sorry.  I thought he was just a CUNT. I didn't realise he was ill. I said So I I knew he was ill but still thought he was a bit of a CUNT. You know what I mean? So It's I knew but it's just hard, isn't it?  I think my dad was on resettlement. So he's working in London.  I was 15 at the time.    I mean things That's any it's weird because things died down a little bit. We're in Mossingham Not a lot because obviously then we does transition from being a war marine to civic work on building sites, etc We're in Mossingham. I thought southeast London.  I've got a good bunch of mates back in pool and So I was in my last year at school things had died down a bit My brother has been a bit of a of what's it?    It's just it was everything. You know, I mean, it's like You know the effing in the jeffin the the physical abuse the you know resistance to interrogation, you know, I mean it it was just not good and I knew box, I think mostly hospital I think is the child's psychiatric assessors. I think I do remember Trying to think how old my brother was we lived in pool. We had to go and be assessed. So We're all sat in this room. Obviously the old mirrors and stuff They'd ask us questions and I thought I was thinking to myself. Do we really need to speak to the family as part? That's what my brother sparks.  It's that how Mate, I'm gonna interrupt you there. We're not slating anyone. Yeah, we're highlighting Yeah, I of course I get that but I just You know, it's really important. We understand that pretty much life is set up to traumatize most people Just if you don't believe if you don't believe me go and read a beauty magazine mate Go and read a beauty, you know, go and watch any Hollywood movie You think it's about the hero? No, it's not.  I understand we're here to highlight the fact that once we start to understand this life can be, you know We can Get life better for everybody Yes So I keep interjecting ish on because there's so much If we keep playing the traditional story No one learns from it. We all just think oh my dad was this oh And and but if we can like make sense of it we can all we can all all learn and and um And we can all The reason I'm saying this is a real big thing for me to be able to move my life on from the point where I was dying You know I was injecting drugs 12 times a day.  I've completely lost my train of train of thought No, you don't you don't understand everyone's because obviously you go around kind of say well Some of these lists some of these that you don't know because everyone's got a story, don't they? Everyone deals with stuff differently, don't they?  It's like run away You know from the head on, you know So happy medium Yeah, well I think what it is is to get You know when I talk like this very often I get a reply. Oh, yeah, but I'm never forgiving and it's like Yeah, fine But then you're never going to move on ever You're going to be stuck at that four year old or six year old or 15 You're going to be stuck there for your life and now you're putting that on your kids Yeah, we've got to be able to unpick this Make sense of it go. Ah, right. I get it now Okay, it wasn't about me.  We keep our vibration high. We we you know, we put out good message to other people that That they can they can empathize with and I can see that you've already done that Probably saying this for the sake of the podcast mate rather than you Sean But How how did you find out That your dad was dead Well, basically I was around Mom was seen to be in Lord's house in Penzance and had a phone call I think it was my mum said uh Because my mum had had a split up by this time She goes, oh your dad's in hospital And then that's a great and I knew because obviously having found out about 95 and then The feeling in my stomach and then in about an hour later mom phone back eyes He's uh He's dead, which I saw like I knew it was going to go that way and then So next day I had to go to work. So I'm sat in the crew called Rose and Mississippi I've got a ball of kiss. I get you for connects on So I said with upstairs burst out laughing So I know his row looked to me.  So I then spoke to my chief. I said, uh, I think I need to go home because uh my dad's Take his own life and it's like so I think I ended up with about three weeks off. So I went home Sat in the place where it happened by myself drank a lot And it was weird because I was numb And then I gone there for a bit and then I think I like I can't remember if I stayed up for the funeral I had to go back. I can't remember again. So some of My dad's mates Not loads of people came because some people got the dates mixed up people were pitched up late in that so Yeah, obviously went up sooner than the coffin, etc It was weird because I wasn't yeah, I think I wasn't sort of like I think it was worse when I found out I don't know who passed away about 10s for years get cancer.  I'm trying not to it makes you sneeze like man, which is really weird, but Sean sorry, sorry, mate Carry on Yeah, I said obviously I found out by a phone call from my mum. I was on my girlfriend's parents house at the time and then obviously Went home on leave for a bit compassionate and uh Yeah, it was a weird few weeks That's obviously staying in contact with my chief. Are you all right? And obviously some days I was Pissed up. I'd ignore the phone call because I was just sat there I mean I didn't get any counseling or anything. I had no counseling as a kid for childhood trauma nothing Your dad obviously there are people you're going to see obviously maybe first port a call for a lot of people in the forces Going to have a chat with the best, you know, I mean and then take you from there, but When you're a bit messed up and you don't know what to do and you You've been a bit problematic in the forces drinking too much and getting up to no good Then you just deemed as being a screw in you That's the thing God, excuse us mate Um Tell us about the funeral because I'm guessing his oppo's came Yeah, I can't remember There was a couple of people I thought would have come didn't come. I can't remember this I think Brothers came thank you. Was it was it a military funeral? Well, we did because I was a poor bear I mean my brother was going to do it as well, but obviously he's like there's somebody else so carried it I always didn't really carry it in obviously last post afterwards and then we went and then because he got cremated And but what happened what happened was Jeff wrote In 96 what was supposed to happen? He because he's from the lake districts. His ashes were supposed to be scattered in the lakes Nothing ever happens. I think What my dad thought was if he ended his life and pulled the family together it did the complete opposite So mom said she was going to go to lake district Scattered ashes three years passed. I was on the fearless So I went home some more to go his ashes Took him back to the fearless and said come on do commit of ashes So got a casket made we just left Gibraltar and then obviously Come in committal of ashes ceremony in 99 off the coast of Gibraltar Because I thought was very out to be the next blue neck, etc. So yeah, all my best mates of 4f2 Helped to that but got a slab of beer afterwards. But yeah, it was just the funeral itself Some people pitched up Some people didn't because the dates were wrong. So it was military issues and X boot necks me and rig as a matlow carried a coffin last post off to The crematorium and then awake in the Prince of Wales Uh few beers but I don't call it a call a lot and then got a book which run got with musailas hat out Did a talk for everyone and then that was about that but I think because It wasn't really late to rest Everyone's still mixed up and in turmoil and couldn't express anything. Everyone's a bit numb or didn't really know what to say Then I'm just Sean the point I'm sort of getting at is Oh And again, I'm just saying this for the sake we can all maybe learn something is these events can be so hypocritical You know all the military want to turn up Well medals and all It wasn't like that. It was quite a low key thing. Obviously you have some people like rawmarine's association, etc medals on and stuff. I think maybe the trying to think of the bloke playing the last post might have been for the rawmarine association But yeah, it wasn't like what you know, it was quite a low key endeavor.  May I'm not trying to bad I understand where you're coming from. I'm just trying to say it's it's we We do the kind of you know tradition stuff really well, but we We missed like the important stuff Yeah, the emotional the well-being type stuff in it. Yeah attention And not just that, you know, it's like when someone's drinking himself So what are the what do people say to they go?      You know what I mean? So, yeah Yeah Mate some of us have been there I can tell you it was a lot more than 20 cans of beer. Well if you include the bottles of rum And and life can be good after it, you know, this is this is what we're trying to get to here I want to pick up on a point that You mentioned and and I hope I hope that a lot of people watching and listening can put their troubles to bed When we mentioned this and You know, you said when your dad rocked up at the royal tournament when you were there And said I love you and I'm a shit dad That He was trying to set you free. You know that Yeah I know I do that and it it's Because obviously you know you just all could be Oh, I don't know.  But yeah, I know I knew I know he was I know he was trying to make peace for me And that's what he he was trying to say son. There's nothing wrong with you. It's me That's what he was trying to say I got that loud and clear when I that chap I did And it was just I mean, you know, I'm guilty because I thought I could have done more for him But I resented I had this obviously in a turmoil of myself Well, I could but then it's still it's tricky for me early 90s and that mental health stuff and that in the native still plans It's still plans 10 years ago, but well 12 years ago. Oh, man.    Oh, yeah, there's actually nothing wrong with me Is that and we can just move on? literally Literally, I I'm very mercenary Sean. I I don't deal with the past.     Why?   You know, I mean, that's that Absolutely and again a great message you're putting out may anyone out there now if you're struggling Pick up the phone to someone to share it You know, you won't be the first but make sure you get the right person.  They don't maybe not ready for it but Um, you know share it because Times can seem so tough In that moment, but you've got to remember you are massively loved Whether you like it or not.   See the funny old week this week because I was out there Was a suicide prevention meeting the other day and I explained what I'm trying to do. Obviously for veterans, etc so that was Started off there. Obviously this then I'm doing a coffee morning on friday for jeff and I need money from that We'll bring to jeff. So yeah, it's been Stuff that needs to do You know me I wouldn't shy away from it because I know things need to be said and for me to From my own sanity and I mean I deal with stuff anyway I don't you know don't let the bastards grind you down as they say but you know I do have my old click here and there but because of this It's important. The word's got to get out there. We've got to start, you know Look at after your office so to speak Yeah, I'm just going to mention this as a like a last bit but like I'm I'm in a completely Different place now on on the journey so to speak um And I feel for people that are still back there Or even people that think that they've got over stuff and that they're in a good place you know there's There's an even better place you can be and it's when it's when Gosh It's when you learn to disassociate yourself With this ego identity that's been thrust upon you from birth Which is hey, I'm chris fraul.   We are simply the universe Experience in itself That is it, right? It's these corporate trillionaire nut jobs that have carefully Um brainwashed us into thinking that we're this Little identity called shorn and chris and that's all we are. No, we're not. We're so much bigger, you know And when you realize your universe not chris fraul Life becomes different. Why?  It's not always easy. We upset people.  You're above the care in what Karen said on facebook You know in fact, you probably won't be going on facebook But all that much um So I just wanted to say that and anyone who wants you know, who's keen to learn more um Get in contact because I can help you with that. Um It's uh, you know, we get one life shorn and I've always tried to I wanted everything mate, you know Wanted everything. I did everything in an attempt to find out my answers I guess when I look back it was You know Why was my childhood different to people's? That's that's probably why I've taken so many drugs Probably drunk more like I said more alcohol in one day than most people do in 10 years Um, it's why I've thrown myself out of planes learned to fly them. It's why I've picked up a automatic weapon and and patrol for a major city in Great Britain Or island depending on your perspective.  Um, you know Willing to kill people willing to it's why I've been a smuggler international traveler adventurer Why I put myself for a universe is this all all on the journey trying to make sense of what because and um and Gosh, it's really easy.     He's the biggest legend in my life that I'm ever going to meet He is literally the most handsome fella.   I think I got Dangler is the little boy of this sloth. That's mine. He gave that to me We gave him clingsy. I think that was it, right?   We'll put them below this video Yeah I mean it's just obviously it's just trying to do a bit more with jeff etc And then like I said, I'm all for like trying to get more peer support together The idea is to sort of get a directory together so people know We know obviously the nhs and healthcare systems are overstretched, etc So try to work even if it is I don't if we can make one percent difference Then it'll be a little bit, you know, maybe it is going to take a lot of time and effort and obviously Suicide prevention just a small part of my job, but it's not you know I mean, you know the people I talk to you some people are So yeah, I'll get some stuff together and yeah, it's just, you know Jeff's a good bloke, you know, he'll help anyone out etc I'm doing other bits and pieces to raise awareness and It's just it's going to take time, but you know Friends at home jeff williams W02 jeff williams rule marines um very nice chap been a long long time friend of mine.  Okay Yeah, I mean that's probably a good protocol because obviously I My regular contact with jeff and it's just stuff all that build on and then get something which is Most people know about satterton and bulbrish legion and uh ball call signs, etc But jeff's doing a good point of contact. I'm happy to point people in the right direction as I think If they phone me up or drop me a message, etc, you know Otherwise it can get a bit messy. Some people won't reach out as we know, but yeah I am working it obviously trying to make things a bit Easier to access when people are waiting for gp telephone calls, etc Because obviously what's happening is people are relying on volunteers, you know, which Should that be happening? It's good that we have volunteers to do that, but in this day and age really, you know, I mean Exactly Exactly Pregnant and distorted Well off the back of what you're doing off the back of the podcast, um, we will We will help some people mate. That's no doubt You know I get a lot of emails to say thank you So don't ever think what you're doing is not appreciated because it it will be by someone somewhere You're not always going to hear about it And it might not be a media.  It might be the thing that they go, ah Hang on. What do those guys say?  We're all human.  I still do every single day, right? But it's not about that it's about real, you know Realizing that we keep going Exactly, moving forward, yeah It's a great life.  We'll put those things right though Just stay on the line so I can thank you properly.  Cheers. Welcome, mate


Holy mackerel guys, this Jason Vernon thing has blown up. So I woke up this morning I went to bed where it was Steve as a crackpot. Steve's ideas are terrible. They're awful I wake up this morning and it's now Steve is a criminal Steve is a plagiarist Steve is dishonest. He's a thief Absolutely hysterical and a little bit embarrassing So as I said before my intention behind this whole review thing was to demonstrate to people how petty and anti-intellectual many of those in academia are and it has turned I was not intending this but it has turned into Jason Brennan destroying his own reputation by trying to character assassinate me and You know, I'm sorry to anybody that's watching this video that had is trying to hold on to some respect for Jason Brennan Look the guy's literally lying. You're going to find out about it in about five minutes It's it's tragic. That's the circumstance. He can attack me all he wants.  Oh my gosh. I broke a contract. I posted a thing without his permission I I wasn't going to send him his money. He literally said he was thinking of suing me suing me. Oh, right, right So this is the theory of why I'm uh, this is theory number one Bad dishonest person and the reason this part. I'm not quite clear on apparently the reason I posted the review is because I'm Bitter that it's bad or I'm bitter that it's critical of me or something like that You have to clarify exactly in this theory why I decided to post the review theory number two Jason brunnan is upset that I'm mocking him because of his terrible review Doing what I thought he would do and now he is actively engaged and literally blatantly Lying in order to character assassinate me and discredit my project what I'm doing and trying to attack me as a person Okay, two competing theories. I'm a terrible monster or Jason brunnan is intentionally painting me as such while Knowing better Shall we begin with some of the facts now as I go through these? I don't know if You guys are going to be able to see them on his wall. I do know so he's blocked me So I can't respond to any of these outrageous allegations On his wall to anybody that's been following him And if I could I mean I understand why I did that because if I could he would look like what he's about to Look like in this video So I know though because people are sending me screenshots. I know He said all the things I'll I'll put the screenshot. I'll overlay the screenshots in this video So you may be able to correlate this correspond this he may have already deleted it. I don't know but here we go Okay, so here's the first situation to analyze with our two competing theories The day that brunnan sent me the review I woke up and I'm a few hours behind because I'm in new zealand right now And I woke up to him sending the review and a bunch of people asking me if I had paid him yet Steve did you pay him yet? Did you pay him yet? Did you pay him yet?  Are they really acting like I'm not going to follow through Like the whole did the kick start a thing. I'm just going to run away with a thousand dollars Ah some pieces of the puzzle Here is a post that jason brunnan put on the website bleeding heart libertarians that I just discovered Like yesterday, I didn't realize he apparently had in mind from the very beginning That he was going to try to act like he was unsure if I was going to pay him He doesn't know maybe I'm a bad actor He had that in mind from the beginning, which is a little surprising I thought maybe he would try to pull us out of his butt Uh after the fact but no he did this from the very beginning and I quote This is uh, this is a post I'm bleeding heart libertarians as you may have heard I agreed to read and write a minimum 1200 word review of st paterson square one the foundations of knowledge in exchange for $1,000 I send him the 2,500 word review today as per our agreement I have submitted the review to a journal if three journals rejected. I will post it here. I will post it here Listen listen this says I haven't heard back from him So I don't know if he intends to keep his word and pay me He posted this while I was sleeping right he must have literally sent me the thing and then posted this online Hmm interesting doesn't know if I intend to keep my word Okay, let's look at some more facts about what has been claimed Somebody asked him on his facebook wall. So what happens when he refuses to pay up? Jason Brennan responds legal demand letter followed by lawsuit Yes, yes stoking the flames. Well, I mean gosh, I don't know if he's gonna pay maybe he's gonna pay baby He's not I mean if he doesn't I'll have to sue him I wonder why he would why he would post that now. I believe that one is one of the ones For good reason that he's deleted, but there it is Let's see what else has he claimed He says apparently Steve Patterson just posted my review online without my permission and against our agreement I oh my gosh. I told him I was going to edit for typos Oh, we'll come back to that He says but it's under review right right now elsewhere. He also hasn't paid me yet I might have to sue him for stealing my intellectual property and for failing to keep his contract Wow I wonder why he's doing this now this one I don't know if that one was deleted before it was edited or whatever But that's another one. He's trying to cover up saying these outrageous things Somebody else asked him on his facebook wall You didn't have any contract with him or get part of the money up front Jason says I have an email agreement plus all the public stuff easy win in small claims court And then he gives a little tidbit And he did offer to pay first I said no the norm is I write the new pay. I'm a professional and do professional things Hmm. Here's a few facts That mr. Brennan has intentionally left out knowing better and intentionally trying to imply That maybe I was going to pay him and maybe I wasn't fact number one I literally offered to pay him Immediately after the crowdfunding. I sent him an email saying hey, how would you like to be paid paypal? Bitcoin a check and he told me Yeah I'd like to be paid by check. You can write me the check after I send you the review great. Okay Oh, there's another fact of the circumstance by the way I'm in new zealand right now and checks take a little bit of time to go through the mail Hmm So fact number two I told him because he he asked me like right after he sent me the thing. Did you did you send the check yet? I said like I I just woke up. I'm in new zealand It's a weekend. I places might be closed. I'll send it as soon as possible He said, oh, well, you can send it to me on paypal. That way you can avoid the international Uh carrier fees. I said great. I'll take him up on it. Sounds good immediately I transferred I started in paypal a bank transfer Taking a thousand dollars from my bank account to paypal so that I could pay him Well, it just so happens that he knows because I told him That it takes a few days before the money goes from the traditional banking establishment into paypal to send him And now he's gonna pay me fact number three. I also offered to pay him in bitcoin, which is literally instant Okay, not literally instant 10 minute confirmation times. Okay Practically instant a lot easier way to pay when you're in a different country, by the way He declined and wanted to pay pal thing. So after I I post his review He sent me these I keep getting these emails. You pay me. You gotta pay me. You gotta pay. Oh my gosh Why don't you pay me like, you know why he didn't pay you because I'm in another country and you wanted to check And then you wanted paypal and then it takes a few days to get from my bank account to paypal Did he mention this? Of course not Fact number, what are we at five? He so and so now he starts demanding the money After I published the review. I'm thinking I mean, okay, dude, whatever. So he says you can pay me via paypal via paypal with a credit card It'll be instant, but you have to pay the credit card fee. It's like 30 bucks or whatever And originally I thought well, this is ridiculous. The whole point of the paypal thing was to avoid the fees It's going to be cheaper than 30 bucks to send you a check in the mail, but I acquiesced I said, okay So I put it on my credit card on paypal even though it's literally the money is in the middle of being transferred from paypal I mean from my bank account From my bank account to paypal So this whole bullshit about he didn't know whether I was going to pay is a deliberate lie that is meant to Cast me as some bad person when he knows full well the whole time that obviously I'm going to pay All right, next situation to view through the lens of maybe I'm a bad person or maybe jason brinner is intentionally lying to people Let's go back to what he claimed. I told him Steve paterson posted my review without my permission and against our agreement. I told him I was going to edit for typos This literally guys is a hundred percent a lie Let me read you verbatim what he sent me via email verbatim So he sends me the the review. He says hi steve as promised here's the review. I may edit it slightly After sending it to you Yes, that's right. I may edit it.  It's a lie. Ask him about it. Okay, so now let's go to the circumstance that has generated this Uh hyperbole hysteria this morning this idea that uh breached a contract because I I posted it before the permission Okay, so now for those of you who haven't been following along Let me tell you how this whole thing started and you'll understand why this is utterly ludicrous This whole thing starts because I made a post I said here's a challenge to all my peers in academia who care about the world of ideas You have all kinds of doubts about the system from which my ideas come because it's not peer reviewed I said, how about this read a copy of square one. I'll send you one if you don't want to buy it Uh two write an honest review of it be as brutal as you like but judge the ideas not the author or the system Three post it here. I will read your review and write a response I will I will post your review no matter how critical on my page slash website for everybody to see If you're serious intellectuals you should evaluate ideas on their own regardless of the system that they emerge from So please demonstrate your interest is not in participating in a club But rather participating in intellectual discussion If the ideas in square one fail Then your review will help guide people away from my work and you'll do the world of ideas a great service Pretty straightforward read the book write a review.  I know I know He's kind of known for doing this. Whatever. I ignored it. Then he continues. He insists He says still we still willing to read your book and write a 1200 word honest review for 1000 dollars reasonable compensation for my time To which of course I ignore because I think ludicrous Then he then he comments on somebody else's threat. I don't care who pays if Putin paid me 1000 dollars to read Steve's book And write a 1200 word review. I'd do it to which I responded nothing Oh, and then he says He then he makes this long post and says literally I'm quoting this is this is the contract So 1000 dollars Because I'm I'm refusing him. So he's sweetening the deal So 1000 dollars and I'll read it and write an honest review I will even try to publish the review in a few journals if that fails. I'll post it on bleeding heart libertarians I might be able to get to succeed in getting it In a journal because I have quite a bit of clout that an insider status that you despise Though my cloud is in PPE not epistemology. There it is folks I ignored him and he's sweetened the deal by saying I'll even try to publish the review In a few journals now even at this time. I was thinking whatever. This is I'm not I think I I have posted somewhere that says like No, that's ridiculous And then I had some conversations with some people that gave me advice. They said steve Why don't you take him up on it? Why don't you do a crowdfunding thing raise the money? And he's trolling you. So why don't you accept you accept what he's dishing and call him on it? I thought That's a pretty good idea. So that's exactly what I did started the crowdfunding thing raised a thousand dollars Uh and immediately sent him the email saying hey, how do you want to be paid?   No, no, really I'll wash your car for a hundred dollars. That's what I'll do. No, whatever. No, I think if you ever do Ignore ignore ignore. He knocks again. He says hey If you pay me a hundred dollars, I'll sweeten the deal not only will I wash your car I'll also clean your gutters and I'll also paint the fence and then how do we have a deal to which I say Initially no and then All right, I'll take you up on that. You have made the deal sweet enough Where you're doing all these things great. Let's see what happens and now folks Because I've posted the review because he you know washed the car And I didn't let him clean the gutters the other services that he's offering me It's a breach of contract He's offering me services that I refused and then he's offering me additional services Which I originally accepted because I thought yeah, okay This seems like a good idea the first service that he provided me was of good enough quality by my metric That I didn't need the other services. So now he's claiming that this is some kind of a contract I have a breach of contract.  I I have the email that I sent him when I accepted his offer. Let me get it for you So I say I accept your offer and one thousand dollar fee to read my book write a 1200 word review Try to get it published in an academic journal and if it fails posted on bhl How would you like to be paid paypal bitcoin a check? So that's it. That's literally what he's claiming is this contractually binding thing that I'm not allowed to post it until he Puts it in these other reviews. So he sends me when he sends me the review He says this he says after he says I may I might Slightly edit it after sending it to you blah blah blah. He says, please do not post this online This will preclude it from getting a spot in a journal Now maybe maybe this is what he's going to say. I told him that to post it. This was in the contract No, this is like somebody to return to the analogy somebody who I've refused when they say hey I'll wash your car for a hundred bucks. They say hey, I'll I'll even clean your gutter For that same hundred bucks and then he says But please don't open the door while I'm trying to clean your gutter. So he washes the car I'm so pleased with the job that he does that I say hey, I open the door and I say hey By the way, don't worry about the other stuff. I appreciate I sincerely appreciate that he's Following through on all the services that he was offering me. I do I even said that in email I appreciate that he was doing that, but it's unnecessary the hundred dollar the thousand dollars Is sufficient compensation for the review that he gave me. I do not require the other services So if jason can actually provide a contract or any kind of evidence that to suggest That after one service was provided I wasn't allowed to post the thing anywhere That would be great because until then it's literally a deliberate lie that he knows is a lie in order to discredit me It's especially ironic or like manipulative that he's using this language in libertarian circles He's also a libertarian because breach of contracts are really stinking big deal So Uncoincidentally that seems to be the word that the Phrase that he's come up with to try to really deeply cut at my character when it's just bullshit if I Does anybody really think who's been following this that if I had signed some contract that said I will not post this Uh, even if I even if I'm rejecting the other services of getting it posted in the journal I will absolutely not post this until you posted on bleeding heart libertarians first Obviously, that's what I'm going to do Maybe this fits maybe this fits the narrative.   It gets even Crazier. This is another post that I believe he's uh deleted, right?  Here's a screenshot He says update on la ferre Paterson. He says a prominent philosophy magazine has commissioned me to write up a story about what happened I'll discuss why I wanted to do this for money Patterson's breach of contract and I quote theft Of my intellectual property and why I think the book is weak and the few good arguments are borrowed without Attribution and now we start to transition to the next outrageous claim that now I'm a plagiarist not only my fee for the bad person Moving along from being an idiot now. I'm I am a plagiarist. So in the midst of all of this guys Brennan sent me an updated version So the first one I posted on my website and this is what I brought the I did the video about Was laughable. I mean I mocked it because it deserves to be mocked and then he sent me another version after the fact Which makes some changes almost all of the changes make it even more extreme So he changes phrases where he's like, you know Patterson successfully refutes super duper skepticism He literally changes it to like Patterson repeats Arguments that refute radical super duper skepticism throughout. He doesn't even give me the credit For doing what I accomplish what I set out to accomplish. He's now claiming I'm doing it without attribution And I quote again, I don't know this one might still be up Maybe it's not Patterson posted the revised version of my review on his website. He's mad that I gave him even less credit than before I'm not mad my friend. I'm quite happy He says but in my revised version I want to make it extra clear that the arguments he presents in chapter three are not new He probably plagiarized them from Ayn Rand who got them from others But at any rate they aren't no and he shouldn't be passing off others work as his own As I said in my original review the stuff about arguments The stuff about arguments against logic and validating themselves is literally something we teach students in an introductory courses It's a point everyone in philosophy knows Holy mackerel guys first of all I would love to know if Ayn Rand actually said that logic and existence are inseparable because the objective is ask any Objectivist whether or not I'm an objectivist and they'll say no absolutely not Totally not an objectivist, but he of course. He doesn't know how to deal with my arguments So that's what he's trying to do is I stole them from Ayn Rand The second point of this is it's super flattering. I mean to be honest, right A legitimate criticism of me and my work is that I spend a whole lot of time In my own head I don't read that much philosophy Because I find most of it pretentious and I find most of it foundationally mistaken, especially modern philosophy So he's claiming that my arguments were stolen from other people and that they're being taught in introductory philosophy courses So that's very flattering. It says something about the ideas, but also it's wrong And of course, I don't know if he realizes this is because he's not an epistemologist But on one on the one hand it might be true that on the surface That's something that I might teach students in introductory courses. That's right But at higher levels not in the introductory students You have what are called para consistent logicians jason brennan. Maybe you're unaware of them I've been interacting with quite a lot of them You have a ton of people in the world both in academia and outside of academia Who deny the existence of any absolute certain truth as I said in my video before the paramount classical logician In the world timothy williamson I spoke to in person at oxford who you'd think would be somebody that would understand what he's talking about It would say oh, of course everybody agrees with these ideas Well, but he didn't because I pressed him about whether or not he thought the law of identity and non-contradiction Were certainly true could not be false and he was uncomfortable giving me an answer. He said well I think that would be essentially dogmatic So jason brennan doesn't even understand That the people at the top of the field who would agree maybe that the laws of logic invalidate themselves When you actually get into deeper conversations with them, they would disagree with my claims in the book that you can be Absolutely 100 crystal clear perfectly certain that the laws of logic are absolute and inescapable Okay, so now we're going to do a grab bag of these posts that he may or may not delete I don't know but people are sending them to me He says I'm going to I'm going to get to tell an audience in the hundreds of thousands That he's a liar a plagiarist and a thief I hope he enjoys that He says I'm surprised given who his readers are that they haven't called him on plagiarizing iron rands arguments Yeah, well apparently you're not aware of either rands arguments or mine because the objectivists don't like me And get this exchange guys. He goes Somebody asked him Did you also request that you remove the material from his website per the terms of your agreement? He said I requested that he said no I finally said pay me now and I will drop to bit I will drop demanding you to take it down. He says that in quotes. It's certainly not quote He said wow, did he say he why he wouldn't remove it? Oh, he claims he paid for it I pointed out that he had not in fact paid me and we agreed he wouldn't do this That it look does I don't know if jason bernard wants me to post our email exchange But I'm totally fine with that look he claims he paid for it I pointed out that he had not in fact paid me and we agreed he wouldn't do this Why I mean back it up jason. Where's where's the email? Where's our correspondence ludicrous? He says in this case, we know he's rather than we know the good ideas in square one are in rand Oh, this is fucking hysterical um This somebody says oh, I see that makes this so much so much worse He says exactly chapter three is rehashed randian metaphysics without attribution Maybe ari the iron randians student will sue him for plagiarism now folks There are two competing theories here It is either the case that I have rehashed randian metaphysics Without attribution or it's the case that this is literally jason bernard line To try to discredit me. Hey, here's a resolution Chapter three is right now available online a free preview on my website steve-paterson.com Slash square one Download it and tell me it's rehashed randian metaphysics ask any objectivist who has watched any of my view my videos on Metaphysics whether or not this is objectivism. It's funny. I had an email correspondence with a guy a little bit ago Who was saying, um, you know, essentially good good job with all of this. You made a very good argument He said but in one respect brennan is right that you were few super duper radical skepticism But not radical skepticism. I said that's funny. That's correct because I am a radical skeptic I'm not I'm not an objectivist objectivist hate me because I am a radical skeptic I don't think we can have certain knowledge about anything in the external world It would be remarkable for me to make a claim to write a book at some Bridging the divide between the mind and the world when I in my worldview as people would know if they listened to me That I think we are in effect Stuck in our minds. I love to talk about the actual philosophy of that later Again with the plagiarism thing. This is a desperate. He said he should be citing Rothbard and iron rand. Please jason do me a favor I'm totally unaware of where Rothbard or iron rand Would would have something to say about this. I could see the randian thing when I say existence Exists right instead of existence. I'm saying existence with a t. He's saying rand says existence Oh, okay. Yes, I stole that from iron rand when actually I don't like the term existence exists because then you have to define What existence is which she does an objectivism by essentially saying that the world is as we see it And my point is to say I don't know what the existents are except that I know they are what they are Are we tired of this yet? Is this obvious yet? Okay. Well, we'll continue just in case somebody's still somehow on the fence This person says I've been following this until recently I did read the version of your review that he posted on the site. I understand why you agreed to do the review Blah blah blah essentially saying aren't there enough reasonably high quality philosophy books out there to review as far as I can Tell there are far too many philosophy books published by reputable presses already So he's essentially saying jason, why'd you even agree to do this? He says I agree. I set up front actually I said that I agree I set up front actually before he raised the money the same thing But I also agreed. I would give it a shot. No jason you offered me to do this. I did not reach out to you You were pompously dancing around saying, yeah, maybe a thousand dollars. I read the book and I called you on it Not doing me a favor, buddy. You're providing a service to me The employer you're the employee providing a service. This is that some oh, thank you for taking my works Seriously, I paid him a thousand dollars. Give me a break Here we go ready Patterson really shot himself in the face here Had he not posted this last night the thing that I paid him a thousand dollars to write What would have happened is that there'd be a negative review of his book in a major outlet next month Instead now there will be a negative review plus a story about his breach of contract And dishonesty in short. He's going from bad philosopher to bad philosopher thief And liar Okay, there are two competing theories here folks Make up your mind So somebody asked but was there a contractual understanding that a the work is not to be posted in Modified but only in the original form Wait, what I didn't modify it. I copied and pasted the thing onto my website It says or b that the work is not steves to do with what he'd like until there are three rejections Says I'm just wondering if theft of my intellectual property is a bit harsh here Jason responds. We agreed he would not do this. That's a lie. It says I explicitly told him not to post this because it was under review Yeah, it was under review. You're on the roof cleaning the leaves out of my gutters because that's what I paid you to do And I decided hey, thank you for the service. You don't need to keep doing this I appreciate it. You earned the thousand dollars fair and square You don't have to follow through on the rest of your obligations. Mr. Employee And again, show me where I agreed. I said, oh, I'm like when you send me the review I'm gonna sit on my hands and wait until it goes through all the proper things No, I paid for it and I decided that it was time for it to be published Oh, and I'll get to this guys this absolutely this reminds me I'll talk about a little at the end I'll talk a little bit about like um people who are on the left and how they do these type of things He says he paid me says somebody asked him I'm not exactly sure. I don't have the thing where um He asked him, but he said he paid me last night after after some pushing He thinks it's silly. I insisted on being paid right away But after he breached our agreement and posted my stuff without permission. I worried I cannot trust him Yes, this is a very common tactic that you notice with people especially on the left where they use the I did this video about How they changed definitely people on the left like to change definitions for words things become violent You know, you know saying nasty things now is now violent. I'm just worried. He might hurt me Yeah, as I explained yet, obviously I was going to pay him. He knew from the beginning the whole circumstance exactly why that's just Another way to say oh, I don't know. Maybe he's gonna show up at my house. I don't know Okay, so I think that's all of the screenshots I have I'm sure there's a lot more out there if you ask people been following this He's been deleting these threads left and right But I mean, do I really have to say any more guys? This is Do you want me to go through? Maybe I'll go through the other ones where where he posted them to took down where he's saying This review is so bad. It's I'm not even gonna address half the book because it's so bad He's of course deleted those as well. So so again for anybody that's on the fence, you know, I apologize for bursting your bubble I do I do genuinely feel bad for Jason clearly He he's existentially threatened at this point. Of course. He did it to himself Um Here's a resolution I invite Jason Brennan to come on my show Patterson in Pursuit and let's talk about it. Let's talk about the facts Let's talk about this magical contract that he claims was breached, which is the most Deep and intentional cutting at my character of any of the nonsense that he's posted Yeah, I'd like to read it. Let's see what the contract is Jason We can also talk about the ideas in the book because you didn't do that in the review So I'd be happy to talk about the ideas in the book. You are welcome to clear all of this up Clear your own name clear defend yourself in real time having this conversation with the evil man My suspicion is that he's not gonna come on the show But he's more than welcome if he wants to listen to Patterson Pursuit, you know, I give all of my guests a fair shake I've got every incentive at this point guys. Like I have said I have not deleted any of my facebook posts. I have not deleted any emails I have not made up any screenshots, you know, I've not deleted any videos Make up your own mind. The evidence is out there. Don't take his word for it I have just established stop taking his word for it investigate for yourself the conclusions speak for themselves and again, you're more than welcome to come on Patterson in Pursuit and You know, we'll we'll get to the bottom of this. What do you guys think? Think I'll come on which theory would this be more consistent with the theory where he's Afraid of me because I'm a bad person Or that he's obviously intentionally trying to dismiss everything that I'm doing and has absolutely no incentive or interest in talking about the truth So thanks again for supporting everybody the crowdfunding campaign was a success. This has been a successful so far I mean, I'll keep responding as much as Jason wants. I can't wait to actually see what when he comes up with I'm waiting for the racism sexism homophobia claims Right I'm ready for the threats. He's a threatening letter. I mean, I I can't wait to see what he comes up with But I mean, it's going to be tough, right?  Please blow it up Blow it up as big as you like anybody the people who are going to Think I'm discredited. Are you going to people that aren't going to watch this video? They're not going to read the book. They're not they're part of the social in-group I don't give a care about them anybody in that as many people as he wants to bring anybody that's actually going to investigate this with an open mind is going to see the obvious conclusion and again Just ask him. Let's see the email, you know, let's make it public post it on bleeding heart libertarians If you like I'm more than happy to post the entirety of our email exchange. Is Jason Brennan? Yeah, stay tuned to find out


Hi everybody, I'm Jen Krieger and I'm an agile coach at Red Hat working with the teams developing Project Atomic and OpenShift. Earlier this year, Fedora project leader Matt Miller asked me if I would go to Brno and do an agile talk for DevConf. My talk went through a few durations but it winded up somewhere in the space of how Project Atomic was delivering software using agile principles and practices. I worked really hard on that talk and I thought I did an excellent job. However, when I returned to the States a few weeks later, I received what I classify as the most epic conference feedback ever. Your talk was poop. I was dismayed but in reality it solidified a thought that I had for a while which I think is a large problem with the way that we talk about agile, which technically is exactly that, the way we talk about agile. Agiles have failed to deliver the message in a way that the open source community understands because let's face it, the current market for agile is essentially an executive or a manager looking to purchase training to help their teams solve their problems. So I'm here to give you a five minute rundown of how we can get around the marketing of agile and to get to the truth of what it really is intended to be. And the way I like to have this conversation is simple. I'm going to talk about four things that I have heard recently at Red Hat and if you notice somebody blushing in the audience, chances are it's that person who said it. Agile has two-week sprints that would never work in an open source community. Agile is not scrum. Scrum is about two-week sprints but it doesn't always have to be what you use. In fact, scrum is one of 40-plus methods that suggests how people could work together. However, XP, Kanban, the scaled agile framework, Lean, large-scale scrum, Spotify's quantification method, DevOps, these are all things that are aligned with Agile and they kind of suggest how you can be agile. However, I'm hoping the majority of you have maybe heard, released early, released often, which was a philosophy that was popularized by Eric Raymond via his essay The Cathedral in the Bazaar, Bazaar was basically published around 1997, which was largely written based on observations of how the Linux kernel community worked. And although I don't think the original signers of the agile manifesto, you know, stole from open source, I think the intention and spirit behind it was actually very similar. Agile is all about speed, forget design, quality, security, and documentation. Agile is not always about speed, but it is about fast feedback loops. So whatever method you choose, the intention behind the implementation is that you get feedback and basically on what you're working on, the code you're writing as soon as possible. Great agilists know that the way to get feedback is to have version control in place, continuous integration, delivery, automated testing, you name it. Similar to the way that open source communities could potentially use GitHub and Jenkins to provide feedback on a PR that is potentially going to merge. Agile only allows for one person to define the product requirements, the product owner. So who is this mysterious product owner anyway? The product owner is a role that is basically defined within the concept of Scrum. Basically this person is responsible to help guide the development teams to make sure they stay on track and generally they work with a product manager to understand the market or understand where the product needs to go. Consider the concept of a product owner very similar to a core maintainer within an open source community. Core maintainers are generally somebody who's going to review code, provide comments, or eventually merge functionality that is intuitive or respectful of what it is they want their project to do. So I would say while the name is maybe new to some of you, it's not a concept that is actually new at all, it's probably something that you're already doing. Agile requires people to be in the same place. I get the impression that when we talk about collocated teams, everyone is thinking that it looks something like this. I assure you having everyone close helps with communication, but it's not 100% necessary in terms of doing Agile. It's just one of those things that makes things a little bit easier. And I would argue that open source community already knows that true because the evidence is here in this room. Conferences like All Things Open bring community members together to help us make that face-to-face relationship before scattering off to the wind and using old school forms of communication that we're used to using. And so while many Agile trainers are all about having teams in one place and they say that's pretty much the only way to do it, I would say be aware of what your community needs to be successful and adjust the way that you're doing to bend around those needs.  Instead think Agile just forked the open source community and used to create software and added a little bit more code to it. Thank you.