You're welcome back. Nigeria is a land of many opportunities with bustling population of over 200 million people. Now, whether Nigeria is a profitable place to live depends on your definition of profitability and your willingness to take risks. The country has a large and growing population, a young workforce and a wealth of natural resources. However, it also has a high level of corruption, insecurity and poor infrastructure. There are many successful Nigerians who have built businesses, created jobs and made a difference in their communities. However, there are also many Nigerians who are leaving the country and who are struggling to make ends meet. The country faces a number of challenges including corruption, insecurity and poverty. Nevertheless, or nonetheless, our Lebanese and Chinese friends have seen opportunities to flourish in Nigeria and now they call it home. So tonight, we are asking the question, are there real opportunities in Nigeria to thrive for Nigerians to thrive in Nigeria? Please, let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to<PHONE_NUMBER>3. I'll take that again,<PHONE_NUMBER>3. So, guys, what do we say about this? First of all, yes or no? Are there real opportunities in Nigeria? I think they are. Yes or no? Yes or no? Yes or no? Yes or no? I wish there was a word in between. No. But yes, there are real opportunities, not a lot, but there are real opportunities actually. When you say real opportunities, there are a lot, not a lot. So what do you mean by not a lot? First, let me say this. I remember them asking a question backstage. And I said we wouldn't come on air without that question. First, see, Nigeria is one of the most populous countries, if not the most populous country in Africa. Yes, it is. It is on statistics. Number two, Nigeria has over 72% of people on that 35. And we know what that means. We know what that means, but we have people on that 70%. You have a workforce. So that already tells you that, look, there is a massive business opportunity, right? Because there are people that are going to buy, they are going to sell, they are going to work. So this is what I mean by real opportunities. But at the same time, when I say that there are not a lot of real opportunities, what I am then talking about is, okay, when we were talking about the Lebanese and the Chinese guys, right, and then I remember we were saying something about how are we favoring the people in the white skin, other than the black skin and things like that. If you look around the commercial areas, you find out that most of the restaurants, most of the supermarkets are run by these guys. Do you know, in fact, I found out something very recently. Do you know that even the Nigerian owned supermarkets and restaurants are literally paying the Lebanese guys to manage and run for them? So what exactly is the reason behind this?  But do you know that if you walk into a restaurant today, I think it's a mindset which has now also affected the government. If you walk into a restaurant today and you see a Lebanese guy as the manager or as the whatever, the funds, how do I put it now, the face of the representative, people tend to calm down and listen and they are more receptive and open to the person other than when it is in Nigeria. So that little stuff from there were our own problems. First things first. Now this also has now translated to the government. I remember as a child I used to ask my mom, what is this? She said it's China's civil engineering company and I'm like, why? So are you telling every day there are people graduating as engineers, civil engineers, civil engineers, civil engineers. So why is it that most of the construction, major constructions that are done in our country is by the Chinese? So clearly there is something that we probably don't know yet. I don't know if it's that there's some trade by butter But then how many construction companies owned by Nigerians do we actually have in Nigeria? Because you cannot possibly want them to, you cannot possibly want people to employ a certain, you can't expect For instance, I think that would be refinery. There was something about it one time when people were like they employ them But then again, how many people in Nigeria have actually worked in the refinery before that it can be employed and that's a good Do you see the problem? Yeah, are we More about experience and the thing about it dragging it back is be one of the reasons would be our answer Your question would be because maybe because they are better managers No, NJ, I have seen that business. I think it brings us back to the system of Nigeria again I don't think that it whips its citizens enough to actually have certain types of experience To function in certain types of capacity. Well, it's when people say this experience I have a problem with this experience thing you are talking about. How do you gather experience? Fine, you got that experience by actually working. You start from somewhere There are even people to do the work enough to gain the experience There are people, what are you saying?  How do that mean you're still not so now we're saying we don't have people and I'm telling you that we have people Okay, they brought about that point that visible how do they know what to do? They will learn that is how you cannot just keep sitting down and saying that they don't you don't have the experience You don't have the experience. How do you start? It's not from one day You start before you gather zero one two three is it my five years ten years experience with time. That's how it works But we are not even willing now. That's even talking about manpower now, right? Okay, now listen to my infrastructure No infrastructure is bad. That's another problem. That's one of the things that is even killing businesses in energy Imagine you want to start a a water manufacturing company for example I'm not even talking about regulatory bodies. Oh, I've not gone to policy. So yeah I'm still just talking about now infrastructure Maybe I decided to start maybe manufacturing bread a bakery or chicken pie or something like that Do you know what the cost of power will do to me? Now, okay, I start maybe somehow some I'm able to get grants That's by local because the truth is that these grants exist, but we're not very we are aware of them Yeah, and they're not particularly Yeah, they're not open to the public is usually by chance that you get to hear about them. Okay, so my summer you won't get this one Then you start to pay for power Then I've got to come knocking on your door. You have to get Nadak number that license and approval.  Yes So it's sort of easier for them to pump in a certain amount of money to do these businesses So that is one angle Okay, that is one angle. I mean trust me Chinelo. There are a lot of angles to this We can we we start here on all the angles wound in this conversation But like I said earlier when we started there's a conversation that I need us to have yeah And that is a conversation about how international companies are driving in Nigeria and then we'll look at a few of the opportunities we think are currently that people can actually look into because we can as much as we say that There are no opportunities there So we have to be able to direct our audience to where those opportunities are and how they can key into it Well, we'll go we'll take a short break at this point and then we'll see you shortly If you're just tuned in it's our ladies night out and we are discussing the topic as their real opportunities for Nigerians to drive in Nigeria Please let's hear what you have to say. Remember you can join the conversation Send us an SMS or WhatsApp to<PHONE_NUMBER>3 Our phone lines are now open. Please call us on 070-2500-7749 I'll take that again 070-2500-7749 So back to our conversation Yeah, how do international businesses Tried in Nigeria. What are they doing that we are not looking into? What are the big what are the opportunities? If any, what are the opportunities that they're giving maybe there's some Kickback or something. I'm trying to understand. Are they giving is there something that they're paying Other businesses need to pay so that we are treated the same way or do we have to bleach our skin? Is it all about the skin and I don't think I don't think so I don't think so. I think You know when a foreign business I say foreign now because it could be a Nigerian trying to establish a business overseas One of foreign business is trying to Establish in the country. I feel you know the government of that country sees it as pumping into their country Because what I like it or not you're going to pay tax. Yeah, so I don't know how many Nigerian business is paid tax in Nigeria So a foreign company coming into Nigeria will definitely pay tax and that's going to do something to The economy of Nigeria. Yeah, so I think we can look at each from that angle and like you also said they are very They they have access to FX, you know, so because if you bring For instance dollars into Nigeria by the time you're in Nigeria, you're not going to be able to pay tax By the time you change it is going to be a lot more than when it just remains in dollars So it enables them have access Access to funds to actually do business That's what I think if there are some other benefits that are being gotten from this I would also like to learn at this point, but I'm going to come from the angle of opportunities if there are really opportunities in Nigeria I like to believe that Nigeria is in fertile ground and it's very marketable It's just quite an opportunity that it feels like our government and economy is working against us But then it doesn't take away the fact that there are real opportunities in Nigeria One opportunity I like to say is um agricultural. I have always said agricultural I have always been a fan of agriculture because Even Nigeria as a country is depending on agriculture So I mean I don't see why anybody does not see that that's actually a business idea. Yeah, do you get there? You can see Renewable power. I get that there are certain types of business that are very capital intensive I'm not anybody can just go into this business, but doesn't take away the fact that it is actually A business opportunity that can thrive in Nigeria because we don't even have constant power supply in Nigeria So imagine if you go into renewable energy I mean you are going to you have a target market clearly and then you're going to make your money from there So there are several there's Well, Nigerian government as as a whole can even buy into tourism rather because there are I believe that there are places in Nigeria and even cultural in Nigeria that Foreigners can come into the country to learn about and it's going to fetch a lot of money into Nigeria economy Yeah, but then again, since Nigerian government is not willing to I don't know maybe go that route Let me hold that thought we have a caller on the line We have pastor or ladipo from Igamu Pastor ladipo are you on the Are you on the line? Yes Good evening. Can I go ahead now? Yes. Yes, please go ahead Yes, hello. Can I go ahead now? Yes pastor ladipo, please go ahead Yeah, good evening lady. Good evening I reach all over you now My my take is this. Okay. There are great opportunities in Nigeria But there is only one bottleneck And that bottleneck is what Delos talked about. We just that she needing good people into it our mentality and our mindset Do you know that in our football field or sport as a whole Nobody will give you a chance if you are not carrying a different thing Are you getting Even when we have local teams that can do well Once anything that involves any other color We tend to jump at it. So my take this is me that let's change our orientation Let's change our mindset. There are great opportunities in this nation and we'll go far with it. Thank you Thank you so much. Thank you for your comments. So, yes I feel like we're not addressing the issue. I mean, I don't think it's about skin color And there are opportunities in Nigeria. Yes, we have a problem with actually grabbing this opportunity and thriving in it Yes, yes, because there's the we part of it Yeah, but I don't think it's about color. No. Well, it's an opinion for Nigerians. Yeah for Nigerians Yes, there are opportunities for Nigerians But then we just sort of identifying what the stumbling blocks are to those opportunities And you say you think about the mentality and mindset is a very real thing and I'll give you an example, right? Now where I work I've realized that a lot of people because I mean we have a lot of we have different races Let me put it like that And do you know that in most cases even the black people We all we just have that thing at the back of our heads. That's the other people that have other superior Thank you. Yeah, I My team lead is a Nigerian I have someone else who is superior to me, of course, but she has a different skin color But you know that most of the guys on the team respect and regard her More than my team lead. Well, absolutely. I get you understand today We literally had to address that saying that no look this person is actually the same She actually answers to this other person as her line manager So you might as well want to fix that in your head. But why did that happen because of skin? So I'm gonna I'm gonna give an example Of that a live example. I'm like, you know, one of my previous places of work I had a marketing manager who was walking out of the uk And I was leading the team sales and marketing team in Nigeria So she's the original marketing manager because we had an office in Kenya. So it's a case of She manages the marketing but In my opinion because it's sales and marketing. She has to You know, she the normal thing is for her to report to me so that we can work together since I headed the team in Nigeria Nigeria is our head office But because of like you said skin color and a few other things Okay, let I'll come back to that. So we have uh, we have dexter from lecky on the line Hi dexter Good evening Please let's hear your comment Let's hear your comments. Please go ahead. Okay. So what I'd like to comment on is the influx of Could you speak up a bit so that we can hear you clearly Okay, is it better now? Yes, way better. Thank you Yeah But you know focusing on the living people Influencing for the country and this is just my personal opinion. Okay, all right I mean, it's just like you guys said it's surprising that we have more Even while And Caucasian people are living in the country. I'm thinking about this in the top of my history And what I think is actually because They've been It's not very different In terms of the economy like in fact, I think it's worse First of all, we have to say 24 24 And then the currency Was that thank you And the general transit They have to wait for me So by station Right Yeah So when you bring the investment, they're not saying that Well now while they are Taking out whatever Because The economy is still We have a policy that if you really try to Do what you have to do Make headway The fact that we can make ends meet with us. We have some people or some problems and be there just to switch your head But if you don't care, they don't have this inexplicable problem with those people and being friends at your point Even if they get to do it In fact He's the least to be I don't say too much In the times of how The people to work in So even like for example, what do you have on your We want to see a particular So I don't know much about the Chinese Okay, any smart based on The human's command in this event With the economic climate But some of the already has A harsh economic Or even harsh at our And you guys it's very attractive Yeah I'm not going to get back I think that I'm not going to get Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. I mean, I didn't catch everything I could pick out some people talking about the economy from where these people are coming from I think they have a Either I said they have a better economy something along that line No, he's what you're trying to say in that currency It's not very different from From what we have here Okay, well, yeah, yeah Not very different. Okay. I thought you said it's better It's not very different from what we have here The Naira was literally At heart with the Lebanese Was there this thing called So I'm not sure what I mean. I understand. I understand that's right But you see this is part of what we are seeing We don't like to give ourselves a chance in this country The thing is that these people I think we fail to understand that these people have more access to fund that We Nigerians actually have access to fund Yes Because even if you're about to start a business now, you're going to go and take a business loan the interest rates will choke you Like I said at the beginning, I feel like there are a lot of things. There are a list of things If we actually sit down here, we'll be we'll be listening out too many things That's so we should prefer solutions. That's me. I believe that that's that's one of the major reasons why The foreign the foreigners are thriving in business More than if Nigeria if Nigerians are actually doing business in Nigeria because first they have more access to funds and then again I don't know. I don't know. I think yes I heard that the devolution of Naira was actually very Intentional. I'm not particularly sure why now But then thinking about it again from a very layman perspective If the value is if the Naira is devalued, right? And then I have dollars for I mean dollar is a global currency, right? I have dollars and I am looking for a A Maybe a country to actually invest in and I like I was saying earlier to you The things that actually sell or rather that you get quick returns on a very Everyday since that's why you see that most of all these businesses that are owned by all these lebanese and indians. They are supermarkets Because do you get because food do you understand what I'm saying because those things you can get quick returns? They are not trying to go for specific products and what's it called now a customized product because Those ones might take a while because you need to really really appeal to your target audience Those ones might actually take a while to get returns and at the end of the day You don't want to be in a country doing business. I am not adding to the economy of that country. You may be sent out You know, let me let me cite an example Let's look at clothes for example fashion Yeah Do you know that it's very expensive and I say that without the names in any words to patronize a locally In a Nigerian rcw branch. I know let's not even go there. In Nigeria.  Why is it? I'm sorry guys, but I'm not going to go into that conversation Because like I say There are things that would affect For any business to get to that point where they are charging that much They are paying like we earlier we spoke about it. Demi you mentioned it You mentioned about the issues with light issues that affect businesses So you have issues with light now where a lot of businesses are dealing with petrol and fuel high diesel Everything is increasing and even though they are my favorite outside that wants to drive in Nigeria How are they going to drive if they make if they make like they might as well go to a bar to go and print it now In mass production. So guess what you are getting this rcw kind of businesses are Made to measure made to feed will you wear nj nj If I tell you tomorrow now The nj I now do a business. So I now Make clothes from umah here And now I'm doing mass production and my tops now are 44k or 335, but you will see it on 200 people Will you buy it? No, okay That's on We're not I'm sorry, but See We can't do anything to help that situation. What do we need to help that situation? Sorry guys We have a we have a bimbola on the call from leki. Hi a bimbola. Good evening Hi, um, good evening. Good evening Please share your comment Okay, so I I want to You Start with the Chinese Okay, so first of all a lot of the chinese self businesses are Government sponsored in most cases And it's not just about Nigeria If you go to most of the developing african countries the chinese Strongly represented there As a matter of fact a lot of african countries are in debt to the chinese government In fact, if you look at it critically well We should be afraid of a second colonization If the african governments If they are not careful Now the chinese the the lebanese guys Are very skilled when it comes to managing businesses Now not just Nigeria if you go to a lot of african countries You see the lebanese guys and and the major business they run In most of these places are actually supermarkets So they are very skilled When it comes to running supermarket when it comes to running hotels anything that has to do We don't speak to our business The lebanese guys, let's give it to them. They are very experienced and they know what to do. However in Nigeria There are too many opportunities But you see because a lot of these guys come into Nigeria with a lot of equity Which most Nigerians do not have access to except for the big players You know, so that's some of the issues we have here But in the case where the Nigerian government is able to make good policies that will favor indigenous businesses You would see a lot of businesses beginning to come up in Nigeria Nigerians are too smart Not to have Businesses run in this country So if we have policies that the government creates a neighboring environment For businesses in Nigeria You will be surprised at how Nigerians will begin to fly. So there are too many opportunities there Where a lot of Nigerians are handicapped Because the policies favor a few And not just everyone You guys are doing a great job. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you And I love what I've been blessed said about strong, you know, bringing up that Freeze day and he just dropped it in the strong government backing.  But then do we have Nigerians in that industrial in that particular Space, are you saying that there are no Nigerian civil civil engineering companies that actually have the same capacity If you empower them, why not? Well, so that brings us back to the government That's what I'm that's that's the end conversation That is the end conversation See, I mean I can say for some other industry, but for the construction I don't know. There are actually See, I don't think there is any there's particularly Any industry that you cannot find Nigerians that are good True I don't I honestly don't think because I feel like Knowing even Nigerians and the way they are, we're very resilient I'm telling you This is not cool. I'm so sure that you will find someone living comfortable in Nigeria Have you thought about it? Why did that? We have this our same Nigerians, right? That's driving when they leave the country. Thank you. I know you were heading to that. That's where I know Of course, I have to go there Just like you said, I'm going to continue from where Chinelo stuff Chinelo was mentioned in a few of the opportunities that are currently Or areas that you know, I said that we're going to look at areas Let's take look at take just I said, see how many Nigerians if I tell you how many Nigerians are out of this country on On if I can say take visas if you understand what I mean on take visas like every day right now If you see someone who is good with Even if you see a solutions architect in Nigeria See see they have to be picked where he is Is just that he hasn't he has even not woken up to the real the power that he has And what he can or he's like a person who is closed minded and just wants to stay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, he's doing remote work That So I think everything actually boils down to the government so the government is not even helping its people so I think that the reason why the government is Simile That it looks like they are seemingly helping the foreigners thrive in Nigeria in terms of business It's just because they want them to pour into the economy of the And also they're going to get they always get something on this side because if I'm big, yeah There is definitely more that I would like to know I would like to know the more That there are a lot of industries that Nigerians can thrive in You know, we mentioned fashion. We mentioned tag. There's beauty even beauty natural beauty a lot of beauty products are out there now A lot of people are doing natural Okay, beauty products and Not be walking No, let's just I'm not there. I'm not part of this MJ Adami left the room So even Nigerians have happened to you walk, you know This has also been opened in Canada And we do a lot of Home and you know office furniture and equipment and Nigerians rather import from turkey There's even computing does computer work like because we're very good and we're very skilled in a whole lot of things See Nigerians try when they leave this country. I don't know why so for the longest time I just thought that there's some is almost like, you know when they say Let's go traditional. When is it somebody's swore for your grandfather? So there's a hedge of No, one of our products is about enabling environments. I think that's that's So that's why we say that's why I went from the traditional, you know, we're very traditional in Nigeria. So I'll say If for the longest time, you almost think that there's this covering on Nigeria that no There's nothing profitable that can happen the moment you step out of that circle A lot of people go out of the country and oh wow You see some of them and you're like what happened in one year? Their life is transformed one second. We have another caller on the phone. We have kennedy from potahakot. Hi kennedy. Good evening kennedy, are you there? Good evening my assistant always Hello kennedy Hello kennedy. Thank you Yes, we can join you kindly make you Yes, we can. Yes, we can. Good evening. Good evening. I'm calling you Yes, so I was listening to you with this topic Of if there are opportunities in Nigeria, of course, there are opportunities for Nigerians in Nigeria There are more opportunities that even you ladies can think of You know, we are a country where we you could mention a lot of them. There are no power There are no good infrastructure There are security issues and all all all that you know those are opportunities actually You know when you're from a country where most of those things does not like most infrastructures are not Oh, oh wow, and I was actually enjoying that he was and I was just jotting that down because he made a very valid point That Nigerians, I think what I'll continue from where he was So I one point I got from kennedy is that Nigerians you see opportunities From even the problem problems that we have so I'll like Nigerians would thrive if we see our problems and create solutions because when you create solutions You first of all you counter that problem until you make money off it I think another point I want to come from is this okay We keep saying that Nigerian businesses are not thriving One of the reasons why I think that businesses in Nigeria might not be thriving is because of the consumers because I mean There's the business and I'm sure that we're trying to meet certain needs and demands Right, but and Nigerians really trusted people because we talk about mindsets The truth is that an average Nigerian will trust a white person not necessarily because of their skin color But because they have proven to be trusted over time than a Nigerian business But that's the truth because you are buying something on instagram for instance, and you will find out that what you see is not what you get So how am I then supposed everywhere now? It happens about now you go there from Ali Baba and you order one thing and get another thing Where we're talking about at the stands, but okay, let's just leave the online business Where exactly are you placing that order from because if you order from Ali Baba in in the UK You you will ship it back And then they'll bring it and then they send you the right size. So that's what we're saying So we're in Nigeria where we can't see that we are particularly trusted people in Nigeria Let's even look at the artist and you we pay a carpenter to come and do something for you. Here's something else See we do Now do you want me to give the furniture of my house to that person to do for me? So we have a lot of this is what I ordered as a game I don't think so I would rather go and buy it in Turkey Because I am sure that I'm going to get value for my money. So you see you see We need to come back to our own sales as the problem as well. No, see let's I agree with you 100 I agree with you But guess what if we start this people have associations right now, it's not strong It we can't hold them accountable because there are no hard drive puts it now There's no there's no body there's no body or there's no There are no agents or curators that are accountable to thank you So now imagine that you have a National well that association or national carpenter is the effects That's what I'm saying now that this now brings us back. See if people see that this thing is serious Do you think that the banking system was like this? Now you see that we are our problems at the end of the day No, we've always we've always known this why we have conversations about it because we're trying to For me, I feel like the reason why we have conversations like this is not Just because we're trying to retreat our problems We're trying to get some people who haven't heard of these problems Or who don't even know that these problems exist because there are people like that To learn certain ways of moving forward in different directions Because I feel like as a country we can't continue to do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result So why we keep talking about this thing and we share our opinions our different opinions because well We all have different opinions is so that people can catch on Something that would change their life That's the whole idea is to catch on some so that the change can start from somewhere because if we don't discuss it How do we even know that we have a problem? But you know, it's very difficult to actually best change when you're standing alone Then do you do you do you believe I believe in change. Do you believe that it's possible to even change because It just feels like you are part of the problem Because it feels like you have a mindset of this thing can't change Funny enough, no Funny enough, no, but then again, we need just maybe know about some people She's representing the people And maybe I'm playing the devil's advocate. I mean advocating this point I feel like we have to be a bit more optimistic if we're going to see any sign of change And the thing about it were christians. Yeah If I can speak freely So as even as a christian you have your they said there's a lot of power in the tongue So if we as christians and you know, the funny thing is always that we have a lot of churches everywhere But we most of the times our major problem in Nigeria is that we don't even believe in the things we pray for and we ask for We ask the government to give us all these good road. Good this you drive well I think so if it no not you but if you don't drive well, how is the road going to remain good? Do you understand what I mean? So there's a part that we need to play as people So we even from the and that's the mindset it goes back to the mindset that Chinelo was talking about If we do not set our mindset right We will always be in this place of We're going to be good. It may not be good. We're going to be good. It may not be good. And guess what even that is confusing for god Cause they won't let's just think about it. If you want this say you want this So half of the time our I feel like half of the time. Sorry.  Why am I wasting my time? I don't believe in this thing.  Yeah, even as Nigerians we say we have power But we do not believe in our power It was until this last election before Nigerian started to believe in the power of the youth or in the power of the population Irrespective of what the results were do you understand? So I understand and I'm coming from the point I think however, we're going to go about it would be from the point of We have to have the right mindset in order for us to even move forward Yeah, for us for any change to happen We have to want the change to happen and believe that the change can even happen And the government needs to do better Oh, no, definitely. We know that the government needs to do better. Government owes everybody is there is our right as citizens And that's the that's what births loyalty for You know country you go to the u.s the reason why the A basic u.s citizen would say God bless america and always would stand by god bless america is because America produces at least gives them food clothing shelter. They don't have to think about it They don't have to pray about it. And they don't even have to pray about it. It's not a prayer talk because it's not a spiritual attack It's something that the government is supposed to give to me So if the government is not doing that, then how do you do yours people in the government? They are the one backing all these foreign people off school might be collecting contracts for me Nigeria. Shah looky I was going to say let me take your last word. So chinelo. What do you have to say? What are your last words? I don't think there's anything more to do better Like and maybe never meant to write to give us good regulatory bodies and policies and then And stop changing policies every now and then and the exchange you should stay in one place This is not going up and down. No one say if they are fake So it's a bit tricky, but well, we've had a great conversation today And I'm sure if we were given another hour we'll keep at it because the thing about this conversation is that he has different angles to it Do we have a comment? I have a comment. Please take the comment All right. Good evening ladies most of them in their country travel hundreds of kilometers and all they see are stretch of farmland They come here all they see are stretch of bush and forests And they wonder why we are not using the fertile lands to make money Well, this person is Benson. Chinelo do you have a comment? No, I don't Okay, I have a comment here. Good evening my adorable sisters the problem with Most Nigerians about businesses is that they are scared to lose their money not knowing That most of the time from one's failure the experience For you to do better, especially if you are resilient We prefer to do business with quick money This can be seen especially among some of our youth today They prefer to be your carder riders than to learn walk that would even that can't even take Them any further in their education. This is from mrs adeniji from ajah So um before we go do ensure you follow us on instagram at wayshowafrica You can interact with us further drop a comment and most importantly follow all our social media engagements and remember to like Share comment and invite your friends and family to watch us and follow us if you've missed today's quote Here it is again. It's got me thinking what extra Ordinary opportunities Our friends from lebanon and chinese and china seen in nigeria that perhaps Some of us haven't noticed this is a comment from uchina uzo See you tomorrow at 8 p.m. As we bring another great conversation to your screens. Good night


We're back. We're live. I'm Jay Fiedel. This is Think Tech here on a given Wednesday afternoon. Wednesday is always special because it's Hawaii the state of clean energy and Mitch Ewing and I, we do this thing about energy and we really like doing it. It's a sort of a, it's an important part of our week. Okay. Hi Mitch. Hello RJ from Kaniyoi Bay. All right. There it is. Okay. And we have, we have Shannon Tengenon from Hawaiian Electric. Hi Shannon. Hi Jay. We're going to talk about your new policy on termination of delinquent accounts. I want to hear about that. Okay. And we have Veronica Rocha and she was with DBIT but she has her own company now. What's the name of it? Hi everybody. My name is Veronica Rocha and the name of my company is Essential Leap. All right. Essential Leap. There you go. We're going to talk about, we're going to talk about the economy. She's very important and it may be, it may be a leap and it may be essential. You're in the right place on that. Okay. Let's begin with Hawaiian Electric though Shannon. So a couple of weeks ago we heard from you that Hawaiian Electric was going to extend situations where customers had not or could not pay bills and you weren't going to terminate so quick and you're going to give them extra time. And I'm not sure when that ran out but now the news is that you've extended that. Can you talk about it? Yeah. We've extended our moratorium on service disconnections through June 30. The previous deadline was March 7, I'm sorry, May 17. Sorry about that. So we want to work with our customers. We're urging them to call, not call in or go online and try to put in a payment arrangement plan, a request for a payment arrangement so that they can start the process and we can work with them to help them through this time. I know many of our customers are having financial difficulties because of the pandemic. So we want to be able to assure them that their electricity service will continue through June 30. And in the meantime, please give us a call, contact us online, let us know how we can get you through this time. Yeah, that's always better because you build points with whoever your supplier is when you tell them straight how you're doing and if you can't pay, why you can't pay and all that. Good business on both sides. And it's certainly good business for Hawaiian Electric because these are times in which a lot of people are under financial stress for sure. And it's very, I guess I would use the word kind. It's business like, but it's also kind for you to do that. Here's a cooperation with a heart. Oh, wow. A cooperation with a heart. Well, we definitely want to work with our customers. And we totally understand that, you know, so many of them are having difficulties paying their bills. And for us, we just want to work with them and we understand that it's going to be a difficult road. And so if they can contact us and just let us know what's going on, let us know how we can help you through, you know, what options work for you, what kind of timeframe works for you, you know, to get that done, you know, we'll definitely look at all the options on the table and see what we can do.  I mean, for a good reason and everything, but yeah, you're taking the brunt, you know, of the, of the financial stress. How does the company feel about that?  No, we can't.  It definitely makes us nervous. I mean, you know, I think as a business we try as hard as we can to work with our customers as long as we can, you know, to get through this together. I think it's a special Hawaii thing. Maybe it's that the same thing in Hawaii, which gives us such a flat curve, so to speak. It's that it's aloha is what it is. And not only are you offering them aloha, but you're expecting aloha from them. You're, you're asking them to, you know, to be fair with you. And if they don't really have to have a moratorium, they should pay the bill. You know, some companies are okay. You know, they're not in essential industries and they're having cash flow. I wouldn't expect those guys should be calling you and asking you for, for relief. And I think part of the aloha exchange here is that you're fair with them and they're fair with you too. They got to be fair with you. That's the Hawaii thing. You know, it's important. Mitch, what do you got on this? I haven't had one power interruption. And I make sure my landlord pays the bill so that I don't. And so life is pretty good. I mean, I'm, I don't have any real disruption. I just missed the talking in the, you know, the hallways with my colleagues, where all our best ideas come up is not parked in front of the computer, but talking to people. So I think you're doing a great service to keep us going there. Shannon, the electric company and us guys who are working from home, keep us going. So it's great. Let me add one thing to that, you know, and we talked about this before, here in the shutdown, you know, so many people are home. If they're not home all the day, they're home at night anyway. And you know, what do they do at home? Well, they're on the internet, of course, they get a lot of, a lot of nutrition out of the internet, a lot of information. And they're on television. And in fact, you know, the cable services and the movie services have offered all kinds of free things and all kinds of first run movies now. In fact, you know, the movie, what they call the Oscars are going to include first run movies that were never aired in theaters at all, only on television. So what I'm saying is a lot of people are living by watching television. And that means that means they got to have electricity in their homes. We would all be going nuts if we didn't have electricity in their homes. So I think it's every day we should be appreciative to Wine Electric that it makes this possible, because a community at home would like fall apart if we didn't have electrical power. It also allows us to pay our bills like we can pay our credit card bills and we can pay our power bill online. If I didn't have a computer, I mean, how do I get to pay my bill? I'm not allowed to drive on the road or whatever. Now we fully understand. Okay, well, what message do you want to leave with people, Shannon? Let them remember this message, whatever. We just really want our customers to know that we're here for them. We're definitely moving forward with them and we want to work with them, you know, to get them through this difficult time. And so I just want to also say that our walk-in payment offices are also going to be closed, remain closed through June 30 as well. I just want to let people know there are a million different ways, you know, to pay your bill. And also, if you get any kind of threat of disconnection through before June 30, please, please do not pay because it's a scam. Yeah, plenty of that, plenty of that. Okay, so Shannon, I want to tell you at the right hand side of your screen, this is in lieu of taking a break. If you run your mouse at the right hand bottom of your screen, you will see leave the meeting. Okay, I will leave the meeting. We want to say farewell and aloha and then you can click us off. Okay, thank you so much. Take care. Take care. See you soon. It worked. Yes, it worked. Okay, we're doing fine on Zoom. Okay, Veronica, at last we're alone with you. How are you? It's been a while. Yeah, indeed. I remember it very clearly, it seems like only yesterday. So, you know, we're talking about the economy here, everybody's talking about the economy. And I actually, I'm a little disturbed about that because what we should be talking about is how to get ready to reopen the economy. We are not ready to do that yet. But, you know, one thing and another and people are all focused on the economy now. And I, you know, this big question in my mind about that. So, but, you know, it's hard to knit an economy back together again. You know, economies are a combination of deals and exchanges, a combination of goods and services and transactions, millions of transactions. And when they stop, they don't necessarily come back by themselves. When they stop and you want to restart them, you have to look at the thing very carefully and figure out what to start first and how to start it so that you don't wind up putting somebody on the block. You could start a business up, but there'd be nobody to do business with that business. And then that business fails. Even if the business didn't fail in the first place, when you start them up too early or not in the right sequence, you'll fail. So, I guess we should talk about that with you. Can you talk to us about that? Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you for having me on your show. I've always enjoyed our conversations and was very pleased when Mitch asked me to participate today. So, thank you so much. So, this concept of restarting the economy, and how do we do it in a way that is most efficacious and that is going to be serving us not only in the short term but also in the long term is one that I've been thinking about more in the context of sustainability. Clean energy, how do we reduce climate emissions? That'd be one significant pathway, but then also in the climate adaptation or resiliency side of things. So, that's why I don't know if you saw, but I put out a newsletter. This was last week laying out time strategies to help revitalize Hawai'i's economy in a way that is going to be cleaner and more prosperous. Wow. Wow. And here we have you now. This is going to be good. So, do you want to start with number one or number six? It's really up to you. Whatever you'd like to start. Start where you want to start, Veronica. Okay. The ones that appeal to you and see if we can get through the ball. Yeah.  And one of the questions that he posed to me, which frankly I think it's an excellent question and I'm not, I haven't given it all the thought that it merits, but the question was, so all of these strategies that you put forth are great, right? But what about the implementation of them? So, it's like, Mitch, that's an excellent question. So, going back to what you asked about where to start, maybe one way to think about it is what are the things that can be implemented in the short term that are going to have the least financial consequences, but the most bang for the buck per se, right? So, number one, I wrote expediting permitting interconnection and regulatory approvals of distributed and utility scale clean energy infrastructure projects. And so, I was very pleased to hear that this is one of the areas where various stakeholders are already looking at and they were looking at it, I would say, even before COVID-19. But now, after this COVID-19, or once we're in the middle of it and once it ends, I think people want to do things more effectively, faster, more efficient, and not necessarily resort to the old ways. So, I understand folks have already started to look at this in greater detail. So, that would be an action that I would put in that area of, you know, low fiscal consequence with potentially a very high upside. There are other things that I think are going to take a bit longer for them to come to fruition and could have, and will have, well, let's dwell on that for a minute though. That's not a pretty good idea. That's an idea for all seasons, all businesses. Hawaii is famous for being stuck in the mud on slow processing of permit applications. Sometimes it takes years, decades, even with big projects, to get the permits. And sometimes, as we know from TMT, the permits don't stick. You thought you had a permit and maybe you didn't have a permit. But I think the PUC is very sensitive to that. Jennifer, what's the commissioner's name? Potter. Jennifer Potter. Jennifer Potter is coming on the show next week. And she, at the legislative briefing in the middle of January, she said that they were, they fully intended to speed up the processing of permitting at the PUC. So, that's all good. So, I think you're going to get your wish on that one. We'll see to what degree. And we'll see how it actually affects things, but I think it's a great idea. Mitch? So, one of the things we discussed was for the permitting in particular, because it can take up to two years to get a permit, is look at third parties to help take up the, what I call grunt work, like the detailed evaluation of designs and doesn't meet the codes and standards so that the permitting people in the actual office that sign off on the permits, they get a brief from the third party to say it meets all your requirements. They can have a quick look to make sure, you know, like a quality analysis, then they stamp it. An example is my hydrogen system on the big island. Like all the equipment was pre-qualified by like a ULS service and it had stickers on it saying this met all the, you know, the codes and standard requirements. So, as soon as the permitting people saw the stickers and knew that it had been done, it was okay. They, you know, they signed off on it. They didn't have to go in and redo all that work. And I think if we had kind of applied kind of third party, I mean, these would be experts like engineers, designers and code of, you know, safety people and they do a professional job and the permitting people in the department have to have confidence that it's being done properly.  It has to be, they have to meet all the requirements, but it takes that huge workload off our under manned and under resourced permitting department so that they can move this stuff quickly through the bureaucracy. And that's just one of the things that you talked about. That's like an essential leap. Yeah. A great leap. Leap. He used the word leap. Essential leap. Thank you. All right. Well, okay, that should only come true soon in all respects. Okay. What's your next point, Veronica? Well, the, I think that there's essentially two stages that we need to grapple with, as I was mentioning, the longer the shorter term things, right now we're dealing with a massive state deficit that we will need to grapple with. So again, emphasizing that in the near term doing as many of these like low or no fiscal impact solutions is, I think, appropriate. As we get out of the situation and where there may be opportunities for the state to start investing or reinvesting again, I would say that it's so important that we continue to remain rooted in key and extremely laudable clean energy and climate policies. Like, you know, the alignment of the Paris Accord, 100% renewable energy and various other, you know, statutory frameworks that have been in place. So I think that in the longer term, there is an opportunity to expand on incentives that could also be beneficial. So one of the things that I talk about in my list of, you know, 10 things is amendments to the Renewable Energy Income Tax Credit. You know, I don't, I think that how hard our solar industry, for example, has been hit by COVID-19 and job loss, etc. I don't think it's the right time to really look at tapering down that tax credit. I think in the future, we ought to be looking at potentially expanding it to include other types of renewable energy technologies, as well as looking at the structure of it. Right now, we're looking at our law provides for a tax credit. In the future, could it provide for a direct refund? Currently, the equity markets are drying up to something that we're seeing, not only in Hawaii, but also globally. And at least at the federal level, there are conversations of trying to make that change for the clean energy tax credits at the federal level. So that's one idea. And of course, I have others, but happy to pause. Well, let's let's break. Let's break that into two parts.  And the other part, we have to spend money. I think the non fiscal part is really, you know, interesting because well, because you don't have to spend any money. But also it's a state of mind. You know, just like your first point about, you know, working on permits more quickly, the non fiscal things in the state legislature, that's also a state of mind. And it's a matter of saying, Hey, you know, business just took a terrible hit. We have got to be business friendly, may I say, because the state has not been, you can quote me on this, you can all quote me on this. The state has not been business friendly. We got to get to be business friendly. We got to resurrect our economy. You know, the loss that we are taking now is not it's not it's not reversible. It's lost. For example, and this goes to the second part of your, you know, state legislature approach is that the state legislature is in deep kimchi. It was not have money before. And it's certainly going to be not enough money now. So you talk about tax credits, you talk about incentives that cost money.  And, you know, query, what are they going to do? They're not going to get a lot of tax revenues for this period of time of our economic history. They're not going to have any money. They had money before, but they spent it maybe in the wrong places. Instead of incentivizing the economy, they were often young. But now they won't have any money to start with. So how are we going to achieve that in a dry hole? This is a hard one. Have you got any ideas about that? I can't say that I do. I mean, it's a really challenging situation with a lot of moving parts. I mean, I think how deep that whole goes will depend on many things that we're yet to see if they're going to depend on how much, if at all, subsidies or subsidization, I should say, incentives, et cetera, we get from the federal government, how quickly tourism comes back, how quickly other types of businesses in Hawaii are able to bounce back. But yeah, we are going to be more than likely dealing with a very challenging fiscal situation for the foreseeable future. Yeah. So Mitch, are you ready to triple your tax payment to the tax office and help them out? Absolutely not. That's a knee-jerk reaction, but I do have some potential solutions. And we have a solution on the books, actually. The transportation services contracting that Riley Sato champion last year is now a law, which allows the counties and the state now, for example, for transportation to use private monies like a private public partnership where the private company gets a contract to supply, for example, 60 buses in one go, and they own them and they operate them, and all they do is they give the county a monthly bill for doing that. So it comes out of the operating expense rather capital expense. So you're using private money. And Riley has already got several pension funds and people that really want to do it because what they get is a guaranteed return on investment for like 20 years of recurring revenue contracts, and they love that kind of thing because it gives them stability in their funds. And we need to do that with a lot of things we're doing here is looking at the private industry and to fund these things that traditionally we put in a budget to buy three or four buses one year and then the next year we don't have any money for any buses. And then we end up like the big island with, you know, out of a fleet of 65 buses, they only have 10 buses that are operational, maybe more now, but that's the point. And if we'd gone down this other road, we'd have a whole brand new fleet of zero emission buses, which meets a whole lot of our, you know, our policies that we want to implement here in Hawaii. So and reduce costs. I mean, this could be the low cost option. Well, I'd like to trip off that for a minute. You know, so you talk about a central leap, Veronica. You know, we have seen the state squander money on a regular basis, I'm sorry to say. No examples here right now, but there have been cases where the state spent lots of money when it shouldn't have spent that money. And so I think one of the elements to answer my own question here is if you if you if you want to do surgical tax credits for energy and otherwise to restart the economy, then don't throw the money away somewhere else. Be careful about how you spend the money. Make make only spend it on essential things because there are really critical things we have to do going forward. Your thoughts. My thoughts are, I don't have a position on government uses of funds, but I would like to echo what Mitch was talking about in terms of public and private partnerships. I feel that there's huge massive opportunities there. Looking at another non fiscal opportunity there is would be revisiting our state county policies to make sure that they are effective in allowing for these type of P3 opportunities to arise. Aside from buses, I would say I think there's a huge opportunity to benchmark all government facilities and do procurements that take advantage of private sector financing and not doing it in a silo, but doing it in a way that incorporates energy efficiency. Squeezing as much as possible and then the rest supplementing the energy that you need through renewables and also incorporating technologies that are here today but are going to be here in the future like electric vehicles, electric vehicle charging stations that can optimize charging, electric vehicle buses. I know Mitch is also a big fan of hydrogen, right? I feel those are the things that we ought to be looking at as we get out of this whole and also think about how to continue living in Hawaii in a way that is as clean, sustainable, and prosperous as it can be. Wow. Well, I know you had 10 things Veronica by my math, we covered two of them. That leaves eight of them and I hope Mitch will invite you back for another show or more to cover the other eight because I know they're going to be good too. But for now, I think I hate to say this because it was really going good. I think we're out of time, Veronica. I'm sorry. Mitch, can you summarize what we've done today and put a cap on this for the show? Yeah, quickly summarize. I mean, Veronica with essential leap has come up with some really thoughtful ideas on how we can restart our economy and at the same time advance our policies so that we just don't drop all our policies because of this current fiasco that we're going through and maybe we can leverage some of the things. Maybe this is going to, the fact that we're in this extremist situation is getting everybody's attention about how we can be more efficient because we have to be. We can't afford to just sit back. So we'd really love to have Veronica come back. She's got eight more points that we have to talk about. And I've already asked her before the show started if she'd be willing to take that essential leap to join us on Think Pick Hawaii. So thank you so much, Veronica. You have some great points and I look forward to discussing the other eight with you at our next show. Yeah, Veronica, where can we see all your points? Where can we look? Is it on our website somewhere? Yeah, let's bring that slide up. There you are. Let's leave it on so everybody can get it. Okay, all right. Yeah, it's on my website under the blog. Thank you so much for having me on your show. I appreciate it. Thank you, Veronica. Thank you, Mitch. Talk to you guys soon. Aloha.