Okay, now we're recording seeing the presence of the quorum. I'm going to call the November 29, 2023 meeting of the governance, organization and legislation committee to order pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 extended by chapter 22 and 107 of the acts of 2022. And extended by chapter two of the acts of 2023. This meeting will be held by remote means members of public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone. No in person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. Okay, and members of the public can access the meeting via zoom or by telephone. I'm going to call on each counselor to make sure that they can hear and be heard. Welcome, Lynn. Mandy Joe Hanakie present. Jennifer Todd. Present. Lynn Griezmer. Present. Sorry, I was late. That's okay. Pat the Angel is present and Michelle Miller is not attending today. So, Paul is, is he in the audience? Yes. He is. Yeah, why don't you. I'm bringing him in now. Okay, great. Good morning, Paul. And thank you. We're going to get started right away on trying to work on the policy goal and goals for your evaluation. There are longer term questions that I want to add to the carry over menu about how we time it and structure and things like that that can happen next year with the new council. But right now I really would like as much input from you Paul as possible and how we go about doing the goal, you know, really doing the goals. Trying to find a way to balance the broader policy and in a certain sense the five year policy with the specifics that we want to have accomplished without doing things like make a list of the trucks that have blue headlights. And that can be done and checked off that doesn't just doesn't really have a lot of value. So, I'm, I'm going to open it to all of you. There are tens of documents in the packet to look at if you want. You want me to bring up the goals so you can. Yeah, that would be real. We're doing the new format correct. Yes, yes. So there is a document in the packet where I started to go through this and add comments from other counselors. I got a lot of material very late so that you know, yesterday. So, and that's not complete. But I guess, Paul, what, what I know I have a real sense of what you want, but what do you see as the best process going forward. Well, or anyone else, but I. I'm sorry I didn't know there was a new version so I'm going to grab that. No it isn't a full. Go ahead. You can do that if you want it's me see which one it is. See. No, maybe it's not. It is me see the. Here's the thing I believe it is the. It was titled GOL review town manager goals. Yeah, thank you. I'll bring that up. That's referring to. Yes it is. Yeah, and I'm hoping this is helpful. Not one doesn't have my stuff in it but that's okay I'm here. No I didn't get to that you know I started it doesn't have Kathy Shane's it doesn't have viewers, but I also knew that you would be here. One of the things is I have trouble figuring out how to get track change documents in here and stuff I apologize. So these were the blue here is Pam Rooney but I want to go through this in some kind of order. And again I want to go back to Paul. To get a real sense of how what you would like to work from what's actually valuable to you. And yeah, so what's valuable to you what actually makes you consider what you're doing. Thanks Pat. So I think what's valuable. What I what I appreciate about this is that there's consistency from last year's goals, like that you in essence these are sort of like. Updated goals from 2023 and I think that that's an important feature that the council should be. I mean, this is a longer term discussion, not for today necessarily, but the council should be thinking in 2 year chunks I think in terms of goals. And when a new council forms it sort of takes the goals and says, you know, what are the goals for the coming 2 years because I think we it's much easier to think. In that time frame because what happens is that when we set the goals, I guess they ever say January. And then we're being evaluated 9 months later and it's always, you know, I say have to put that caveat in there. Oh, we're still there's still 3 months to go and we can still do more. So I think. And I think the the idea of. Updates along the way is something that council has has asked for. And I think there's different ways we can do that. We can. Do that with like a specific timeframe on a council agenda. Or it can be incorporated in different ways in the town manager report where. I don't want to get I don't want that to be like. Cutting, you know, cut and paste every week that it'll get boring, but calling out certain things. Something like that. I think the goal, because of the consistency, I think the goals are are pretty understandable. I like that you've paired them down and made them more. General in terms of what you want to see happening. So, you know, I'm pretty comfortable with where you are on most of them. I think the idea was. You know, that. One of the things I. One of the options, one of the things that some communities do is to say, if you had 1 goal as a counselor, if you had 1 thing. That you wanted to get done or you thought was the most important thing. What would that be? And then and then and then say, and then what's your 2nd thing if there were if you were allowed to pick 2 things and have have each counselor choose, you know, make that determination and and to try and really. This is a comprehensive document. It doesn't really prioritize what you really, really care about. And I think that that would be. I don't know if this is the council is this council is. Once to put the time in because it's a, you know, this council is going to term pretty soon. But I think that kind of exercise is really. The process seems to be let's not forget to put this in the document. Let's not forget to put that in the document as opposed to really setting the priorities for the town. Right. Yeah, and I think a lot of this is going to. He's going to be in the carryover meant memo Paul, because this is something I think that the council needs to work on. And, and the council referred to GOL the process. So, right. That'll, that'll be on the agenda for the carryover and on the agenda for the coming. Yeah. And so. Lynn. I think it would be best if we proceed with this goal document coming from this council. And then early in the next council. We take the document and in each goal, try to say what short term, what's long term. But some, you know, if it's, if it's comfortable say this is over the next two years, this is over the next five years or whatever this case is, but that we not try to do that with this group. Yeah. Council. Thank you, Lynn Jennifer. Yeah, I agree with Lynn and I guess I've, I think it's a really helpful suggestion and it, it's logical and make sense and that we have two year goals. You know, what we've been struggling with, you know, how do you accomplish in nine or 12 months. So the only thing I'm concerned and I think it's a good idea to, to have this conversation early in the next council. Just trying to be conscious of that we don't. So if we were to do two year goals at the beginning of next year that would still allow the council that comes in two years later to have goals. We don't want to be setting goals for two years that make it so the first year of a new council session. You know, they don't really get to set their own goals. No, I think you'd want to align it with the elections. Yeah. Right. That's what we'd, but I think it's a good idea if we could. I mean, if there's time to do it with the new council. It's into the 12 months, but I guess if we're doing two year goals, well, that also would make sense then, right? Because if you have two year goals, if you don't get your goals till mid February, that's kind of okay. And then I think, and if I can jump in. Please do it. I think the idea that is, you don't go through another goal setting process every year. It's every other year. And then you do do a freshen up, you know, in that, like at this time. A year from now, you do a freshen up. Like you say, like, what, what's, are there any things that we've accomplished? We can take out. We want to adjust or anything like that. Or new things come up all the time. So you might want to adjust them. I think that makes sense. Yeah. Go ahead, Paul. It just might help the council manage its time better too, because these are, this is a pretty important doc. It's a very important document in it. You put a lot of time and effort into making it a good document. Mandy. I didn't have my hand up. I know, but I know you're throwing away at something. Yeah, you know, I don't know what I think we spend a lot of time on it. In a way, I don't know how useful the time we spend on it is, which is why I'm struggling with. Our, is the new council going to spend the first six months of the year talking about goals or the first three months of its term talking about goals, right? For the manager, not for the council. Because I think, I think the council in the five years has struggled with both. We both struggle with and we seem to have the same conversation every year, how specific, how not, Pat, I liked your analogy of maybe we shouldn't be putting in create a list of all the trucks with blue headlights, right? Because that's not really a CEO job, right? What are we asking our CEO to do? They're a manager. What are we asking our manager to do? That seems more broad yet every year when we try to go broad, everyone including myself wants more specifics in it, right? On certain areas on their pet projects and how do we manage that difference with 13 people. Well, in some sense what Paul said about, does everyone just get to no matter whether we like them or not, right? You know, because I may not like ex-counselors too. They may actually be contradictory to my two. Or does everything in here need seven votes? I don't know what the solution is to something that Paul can actually work with. I guess I thought of when Paul said each counselor would, you know, maybe have their first and second priorities and, I mean, it may be time consuming, but then we discuss it. I mean, you did not automatically get your top two. For just the reason you said, I mean, if nobody else shares those as priorities, that that was just a place to start. Is that what you, is that correct Paul? Yeah, it was a way to focus the counselors priorities and say, what do you really, what is, you got elected a couple months ago and like, what do you really want to accomplish in your next two years? What is the top thing that you, at the end of your two years, you're going to go back and say, I'm glad I got that done. That's, this is my top priority. You might have 17 different priorities, but this is the one or the two. And then you have to talk about them together as a group. Right. And that again is for the new council. Yeah. So sticking right now with the current document, what are, what are the steps, Lynn? Yeah, I, maybe this is what we're already saying. And that is that I believe that we need to have some level of sense that these goals won't change dramatically every two years. Okay. But may change somewhat, either because time is elapsed and some parts of the goals have been achieved is the prioritization on those goals. And what I'm hearing people say today is, let's get the goals down. And then through a process of, you know, facilitated discussion and ranking. Let's have the new council say collectively, not individually, but collectively, here's the top goal, the second, etc. But also look at it in terms of short term and long term. Okay, because I don't think you don't want to know what every, if all 13 counselors say here's my first and second goal, and they don't mesh, then you got a mess on your hands so somewhere in the years, there has to be a negotiation process among the council as to what are, what do we believe are the top goals, but we also need to do that in light of short term and long term. Right. Okay, thank you. Mandy. So if we go that route, then we need to use. I think our, our even sub goals within, you know, climate action or community health and safety have to be more management word focused. So propose, but in general terms, not, you know, implement policies, but not specific parts of policies, giving the manager. And then when he writes his self evaluation, he tells us which part of those policies he's done or, you know, to take climate action as an example here, use a climate lens when making these. That's not like not telling him what type of climate lens right and then it won't need to change year over year over year and he just then reports how he used that climate lens and in what decisions and all of that and then we review him on whether we think that was a sufficient use of climate lens or an appropriate use or in the right areas. If we're not looking to change them dramatically year over year, then, you know, this again going to climate action number two complete JPE formation and implementation of CCA upon approval might be a little bit too specific but maybe not maybe that one hits sort of right in the middle. But then that Pat what you said on sort of a, another list, create X program for the website is probably too specific because that's much more of a checkbox than a, here's your guide. And also, I'm going to jump in for half a second, Jen. Jen, I'm, I'm wondering whether as we do this, because with the current council there is there is agreement on what the goals are right now. So I'm trying to figure out how to get this document done, as well as prepare ourselves to work with a new council. I'm wondering whether the list of specifics that we often sort of intertwine couldn't be separate lists, something called, I don't know, possible actions or, or something because right now I feel like a lot individually and I noticed it more this election year. People are just trying to get things in there. And, and what is it that we really need to look at when we evaluate the town manager. And what do we need to own about the policies that we create and are working to implement Jen. I know I sound like a broken record but there are certain, you know, big undertakings major undertakings that require a lot of staff time that the town manager has said we, you know, asked us to call out like I think community choice aggregation was that that the policies took a lot of time and the waste taller bylaw that if we don't call those out then the town manager doesn't know how to, you know what he, that's important in planning staff time and resources. Yeah, I agree with that and, and it feels to me like those action items, maybe and people can disagree to feel like though there are a lot fewer of those in actuality than what we list. Right, but we have to list those and we probably don't need to list. And but we need to at least in this committee some agreement about what those things are. Paul. Yeah, you know, it's interesting because we're looking at council goals and then town manager goals and they should be in alignment, which is what we always hope for.  You're the ones who set those policy goals. And then it should migrate into what are the, what, how are we going to judge the town manager on making progress on each of these goals? And I think as I was thinking about it, like a five year plan is actually a better, better than two years because these shouldn't change dramatically over time. There might be something that new, new that comes in that's brand new that we have to address, but you know, I think settling on a five or six year plan actually we sort of do that. We do that for our capital planning and we look at things in that kind of increments. So it might be wise to think about those things as, as we try, I think we've been really working hard. And Sean was really good at trying to align all of our documents or financial documents or budgets, all these things to sort of really pull it together so we can. Everything gets referenced to the next thing. And I, you know, we're not the only ones doing this. There are other communities doing this. I've got Chatham and I've got Lexington's they've both have just completed processes I can share, share with you the information they have. I put Chatham and I put Falmouth in the packet for people to look at. Okay, good. And yeah. And I just got Lexington's they just finished theirs. Where are we going folks. I feel like we should just start going through it. Yeah. Yeah. So it seems like you have two topics one is to get this document done and before the council and then the second is like some suggestions for how to move forward next time. Right. Right. So let's let's Jennifer. I just wanted to ask her the Chatham and Lexington in this week's packet or previous week. I put them in this week. Sharepoint. Yes, sure. You put them in Sharepoint, but you didn't let me know to put them on. See, I, what my earlier comment before we started is right there. I'm just going to. I apologize. Sharepoint. Yeah, I always do that. Yeah. So one of the things I'd like us to go through this document now if we could. I mean, there was a friend of Paul's who commented that the last paragraph and kind of says he doesn't have to do any of this. But I read it a little differently. But I like your friend. Can you scroll down like to climate action we've done changes there. I think we were in agreement with those. I had one more to add to climate action. Okay. And go ahead man. Well, Jennifer. So it was just a, I put it as number four, but it could be number five. I just didn't want to move the and. And it references, it's one of the things that for this and housing, I put the same thing in it. I worded it as ensure the town can fully utilize state and federal funds targeted at sustainability initiatives. That was the concern about do we have enough staffing or do we this or that. And I didn't include it as higher more staff to do so, because I was trying to do more general I don't know what Paul thinks of the wording of this, but more of a general. We need to ensure that we're not leaving easy money on the table through whatever means you think is the best to do that Paul sort of thing. Paul your reaction. Yeah, no, I know that I see that as a high value and something worse, we're actually quite struggling with because there isn't. Excuse me. Unless we contract with somebody, there's nobody readily on hand that has that kind of expertise, but other communities are going through the same thing. We happen to have somebody in town who's pretty good at this for schools. Yeah, I think that's a solid goal. And our people comfortable with this can we just work on consensus with what Mandy has suggested. Yeah, good. Yeah. Yeah, this may be too specific but the one I had added is, you know, in addition to the pay as you throw in the solar bylaw is the heat pump program for residents and utilization of the pace program for multifamily and business retrofits. I don't know if that's too specific, but that's something we've talked about is also part of our, you know, kind of affordable housing or just housing to have, you know, energy efficiency but maybe that could be part of, since it's part of the pace program is comes under using state and federal sustainability initiatives. Would that be included there. I think actually under number five, the new five carp. That's where all those things are incorporated into the carp. Right. So, so therefore does it really need to be listed since it's in the car program program. I'm sorry policy. So that's actually a question for Paul. Should that be called out or just yeah, I mean, I think that I'm interested to know. Yeah, I think. The carp is the is the plan that you've already said yes to. And so then it's just right. And what this is saying is like, now do it and start to, and I think he gives some leeway in terms of like, maybe pace isn't the most pressing thing. Maybe it's something else that Stephanie says this is where I want to put my time this year instead of on that thing and heat pump is one of those projects that we're really pushing on. I feel comfortable, Jennifer. Yes. No, I want to answer this question. All right, shall we move to community health and safety. Can you scroll up. I forget why. Oh, I put this in green. I don't know why I like the color combination I guess. I was reorder what we had because I felt like, you know, we had Cress here and police here and so I just reordered and the comments in blue were put in by Pam Rooney. Who's so Mandy, I'm sorry, go ahead please. I had a couple of comments and changes on this one too. I actually proposed deleting the review and update policies of the Amherst police department. I know it's not done yet, but thinking about that, that general or specific right. How specific are we going to get. I feel like review and updating of policies and protocols in general should be something covered under the management goals something that is done in every department every so many years. That need to be called out specifically so so I just bring that up as a question of do we need to call it out specifically. The resident oversight board I actually reworded the town council I don't think has ever voted except through the manager goals to create a resident oversight board. With the new post commission and all there is a question I believe Paul might be able to speak better to this as to how a resident oversight board is different. Not necessarily necessary but different and and what it can do in addition to or outside of what the post commission at the state level does. And so I had the, I proposed a new wording for it. To investigate and report to the council the bounds of a town resident oversight board in light of the state post disciplinary system, you know, before, you know, the RFP did not succeed and so before we go any further on stuff should we talk about what could be done with a town resident oversight board before we say create one when we don't really even know who would interact so I proposed a rewording of that one. With Pam's in blue. I think her number six develop a priority list of traffic safety zones that need solutions as much more of that specific thing that might not be appropriate for town manager goal, unless we reward something a little more general. I think it can get taken out completely because it is a literally a list. Jennifer your hand was up while Mandy was talking so yeah well you might want to finish this discussion I was just going to react I, I was under the impression we had agreed that what that we had made a commitment to creating an resident oversight board, and that I think it's very important to the community that that police protocols and policies be reviewed. So I could not support taking out those two items. It doesn't seem go ahead Lynn. I'm actually going to ask Athena, either if you can or I can we can pull up the motion that we took in November of 2022, where both of these items were mentioned. It is been, it has been the subject of the ongoing report. Having said that. I think Mandy Joe's point about the post commission is absolutely critical, and the extent to which we need. I don't see any reason why we need to be duplicating anything they're already doing. So the work that Pamela has been doing has, you know, recognizes the creation of the post commission and that's one of the things that makes this more complex than other. This will be the first resident oversight board in Massachusetts that's created since the post commission. And so that's it does shape what the town can do or should do in this we are working under the assumption that the town still wants to create a resident oversight board. But within the context of the post commission, and I think that's 1 of the things that. As we frame out what the, what the support that we're getting. What would do is, is to put that into context, but the assumption in my understanding is that the council wanted a resident oversight board created that that came out of the CSWG. Report. Yes. Yeah. And that's why I don't think it has to be listed. By itself. With pop. Yeah. And, and this, the difference here. In what was just added is with possible assistance from and hire. Although I don't know where we're going to get the money to do that, but. We have money set aside to do through our great. Thank you for reminding me of that. This is what I just added is from that motion that Lynn reference back in November of 22. And this is, this is what we're operating on is to get a plan together to the council. Yeah. And again, I'm going to say, and then I'll step back review and update policies and protocols. That's something that's already been decided in. And I don't think it needs to be listed as a separate item. I'm not sure who was first. I'm going to go with Jennifer, then Mandy and then Lynn. Um, so are we saying that what we're asking for this year is just to report back about whether we can have a resident oversight board within. In light of the post. It's not whether you can is whether you want to and I think what we would come to you with as a plan. It would be a resident oversight board of such and such members. This would be this is what the membership would look like. Here's what the budget would be the request is to have the members compensated. Here's the budget that would need to be appropriated for. Training because there'd be substantial training for anybody who would serve in this sort of quasi judicial setting. I think there'll be a debate from members of the community who in terms of what powers the resident oversight board has members of the community wanted it to have subpoena power. There's a lot of concerns about a commission, a town commission having subpoena power. But that's where the debate will probably land for the council. And it's, and again, in light of the state post disciplinary city system. What is it that we still need or want with that there. Is that you want to follow up Jen and then I'll go. No, I'm just wondering because I think. Um, you know, since.  People aren't in the weeds with the, you know, day-to-day changes and policy, maybe at a state level that there isn't. Maybe it's not for this committee to decide this now, but I think there's the expectation in the community that we are going. To develop a resident oversight board. So if it's now going back, and maybe it needs to because of changes at the state level. Yeah, I just, if I can jump in, I think the post commission was there when this was happened, when this was voted, it already existed. Right. What's new is that we have, there hasn't been a, we can't just take a resident oversight board from another community and say, we're going to do what they did because it's different now. And so, and that's why what Pamela is working on is the, you know, what does a new, what does a resident oversight board with the post commission look like. And that's this. Go ahead. No, I just want to, is this, is she, and she's in conversation with the CS SJC. I'm just, you know, concerned about. Is this something that's known beyond.  So, I think this was a recommendation from CSWG, it was carried forward with the council. And that was like, what you said to us is go look what this, tell us what this is going to look like and what it's going to cost basically and tell us what powers it would have. You didn't say set it up and don't want to look at it again. You're saying, well, give me more specifics. And that's what her job is. And you can't just do it.  And then they'll have a second phase that's going to actually develop the plan for the oversight board. This feels like a more realistic way of moving forward with a resident oversight board. I don't see it as stopping one or. Or saying guy, go ahead. But really saying, let's let's investigate what we where we are now in light of pace and keep moving forward. And this is a way of doing that, particularly since Pamela is already working on it. It's not like it's sitting somewhere not being. Right. Yeah, I was just concerned. I don't want it to, you know, I'm going to say, well, was in here and then the GLL took it out. Well, they might say that anyway, even though it's there, you know, that way. So I just, that they'll say what they want to say. So I wanted to know this wasn't the first time this. I mean, you want, you might want, you might want to just build on the council's already approved language that Athena put up. Yeah. May I, Pat? Yeah, go ahead. So I'm sorry. What we currently have in there is create a resident oversight board, but as the motion says the motion was propose a plan to create the councils never actually said. Do it. We've wanted to see as Paul described and so I think the motion we passed in 2022 conflicts with the current number three not what I proposed but the one that was there. And I guess I object to using the manager goals as a backdoor way of adopting policy. Yeah, we haven't actually pre like major changes in policy. So I would say just like sort of what Paul just proposed. I'm not wedded to my language. I, why don't we just take the language from the motion and instead of saying create a resident oversight board take not the whole language I would say propose to the town council plan for the creation of a resident oversight board period work semi colon or whatever that part of it because the rest is Paul sort of domain. I think I agree. Okay. I think if we do that. That's clearly consistent with what with what the council said a year ago, whereas create a resident oversight board is not in my opinion. Okay. You don't want to say consistent with the council's vote. Just so it's clear that's where it's coming from. Yes. I mean that's a good idea. Good stress but not say with possible assistance that can all go. Yeah. Yeah. I just I would stop it at resident oversight board. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So are you saying get rid of the higher, et cetera. Get rid of everything from with possible to development of that plan. All right. Now we're still on number four review and update policies and protocols of the Amherst police department. It doesn't need to lead it. I just wanted to bring it. Yeah. I think that's really important to the community. Okay. Again, could we say use the language that was in that motion. For the police protocols. Yes. And we pull that up. Thank you, Lynn. Again, I would. I'm sorry. I'll put my hand. No, I don't have trouble with you just. Speaking. We're small enough group. Go ahead. I would not put the whole thing. I would just say. Undertake a review of public safety protocols. And then stop there. Consistent with the council's November 14th, 2022 vote. Yeah. I think that's. Because it's hard to use, but maybe that's not all that's there. Okay. And what did we say about youth empowerment? And in that motion. That part's been moved to a. The capital. Goal. One of the capital infrastructure goals. So right here, then we're just talking about. Development. The programming for youth empowerment. Yeah, which we have our profunding for. Okay. We move somewhere else. Thank you. And then Pam's. Her four, four, four, five are all already in there then. And then it's this traffic safety zones that she proposed. That I think is a little too specific personally. Yeah. And also it's again, just a list item. Yeah. Paul. Yeah. Slightly different. I developed programming for seniors. I think. Pam's actually right that there is a lot of programming already by being done. I guess I would need more clarity on what you want to it. What would that look like to you? I think it's a little too specific personally. Yeah. I think it's a little bit more specific. I think it's a little bit more specific. More clarity on what you want to it. What would that look like to you? I think for me. It is. We're losing seniors because we, they can't use the exercise room that we have. Equipment. That we're not utilizing. And people are leaving and going to Hadley. And I've gotten that information from some of the folks at the senior center. I don't know what that looks like specifically, but. It's work on the senior center itself or staff in the senior center. So programs can be implemented. Does that make. And that might be too specific. Paul. I don't know. No, I think the addressing the physical place of that. Which that belongs in the capital area. Yeah. Yeah. That's in five major capital investments, I think. Yeah. So then. We were putting it. Yeah. I think that would be, I could deal with it coming out. That's where that should be. Yeah. I would take the programming now. Cause I think that. They might find that to be sort of. We would leave that one in the program. Yeah. Yeah. So. I didn't hear that. We're taking out this. Yeah. And we can, you can get rid of the green color. If you want to. If we're done with this, we need an and before five. Yeah. There you go. Um, did. Is there a way to address. I don't want to be specific about this, but. Clearly the TSO carryover memo is going to include the traffic safety zone issue. And it's in our carryover memo as well. Right. So is there a way to. Um, The carryover memos are what the council's doing. And what we've done in these goals is under working with the council or relationship with the council and other things is support the council and its work. Right. And if the council's working on safety zones, then the manager needs to support work. So then it should be number six should be. And support the council, but we don't need to say that. That's, that's. Yeah. Right. And I, I misspoke it. I'm not talking about TSO safety priorities. I'm talking about carrying over the. Commission that. Fall is requesting that would limit some of our powers. And among other things. So are we okay with this right now? So are we including something with six or not? I would delete it. I would delete it as well because. We're not mentioning seniors. They're the senior. It's in the capital project. We're going to come back to the seniors and number five, Jennifer. I think. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the roads you could, you'll bring up and. Four under management goals for infrastructure management. That might address Pam's concerns. Yeah. Yes. Okay. All right. Can we continue? Are we agree in agreement? I'm sorry. What, Mandy? I was just saying we have to delete Pam. And his name from there too. Yeah. That was just for us. Yeah. We kind of did economic vitality. Paul, have you had a chance to look at that. At all. And is there anything. Missing or things that you want added? I don't know. Yes, that's good. All right. Let's move to housing affordability. I keep reading it. Man. Jennifer. None of my stuff that I sent is in this document.  I'm sorry. A couple of things here. I'm sorry. Some of it's fairly minor rewarding, but I. I question whether we need to have the phrase in number one, including the bid chamber and colleges and universities. You know, I just question whether we need it. I'm fine with getting rid of it. And then I had diverse neighborhoods, comma affordable housing and just fixing things up there. I added, well, I changed number two. Number two, number two is facilitate the review and revision. So I, I instead of facilitate the review, I did it review and revised town regulations to reduce barriers to operating a business in Amherst. It's a little more direct, I think. And then let's get. Wait, no. So, so that was to, to. I split number two into two is one of the things I did. That was to review and revise town regulations to reduce barriers to operating a business in Amherst. That was number, my new number two. Number three was provoke proposed revisions to the zoning bylaws to increase and support economic development throughout the town, including form-based zoning. So that was my new number three because it seemed like those two were kind of different to each other. Yeah. So the reduction of barriers, I guess was a split from number one. Yeah.  In the, in the one above, it needs a comma after neighborhoods. Review and revise to reduce and the reduction of barriers. I think in number two. To reduce. Sorry, I'm trying to get all of Mandy's in here. Yeah, I'm sorry. We'll wait and then Jennifer gets to speak before any of the rest of us. Oh, now. Yeah. No, no, wait for Athena. Right. Okay. And then Athena, the old number two is just a repeat of the new number three when you get around to it. And just before you, Jen. I'm going to sneak in here because number two, as it's written now, review and revise town regulations to reduce and the reduction of, I think it's simply to reduce the barriers that are needed to reduce the barriers that are needed to reduce and the reduction of barriers that are needed to reduce barriers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Do we want to say reduce barriers or. Better facilitate. Oh, okay. We can leave that. Yeah. Okay. No. So I was just going to ask if form based zoning was too specific. I had. I had suggested something like including. Design guidelines. I mean, do we know we want it to be form based zoning? I'm okay with getting rid of that phrase. Yeah. Throughout the town. Are you done? Well, I think it's good to have the design. The design. Are you talking to me? Go ahead. Yeah. No, I just was going to ask if we want to keep. So I, so last year we had had that we want to consult and retain for design guidelines. That's happened. It's just starting. It's just starting now. Right. So we don't need to put it in because it's happening. Right. Okay. They, they have. I don't know if it hasn't been a word yet, but they've done the procurement. So do you think that we don't need to. That. For next, this, that will be, that will be a. The work will have been contracted, but not done. So do you think it needs to be mentioned in the goals? No, because it's actually going to be happening. Okay. Lynn, did you have your hand up? Yeah. In number three, it just is awkward. Propose revisions to and revisions of. Just say most revisions to the zoning bylaws. Yeah. Sorry. That's right. And Paul, how long can we count on you being here? I think 11. Okay. So, okay. And is this method okay for you? Or do you love it? Yeah. Okay. Good. Is that. Sorry. No, no, no. Yeah. Thank you, Athena. Shall we move on to housing affordability? Now, I don't know if we're including all of her suggestions or anything, but this is. Well, Athena is working on adding what I had. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. These are Mandy's changes in the train. Mandy, do when you're ready or when Athena's ready, do you want to talk us through the changes you're proposing? Sure. I can talk us through and then I can, I've got some comments on, I think. Yeah. One's cause I proposed deleting a number of them. So I proposed deleting number four entirely. The reason was. Because that is not part of that, that as a separate, I was thinking about the comprehensive housing policy and it's five particular goals. And number four. Isn't. It's sort of. Not. Directly related to any one particular of those goals. Our goals were increasing the diversity of housing for. You know, and increasing diversity of housing, increasing. The home ownership and. Rental housing opportunities at all income levels. You know, and so number four, I. I just didn't see as. As number one housing affordability. Or it falls into others. So I will say that we can have the conversation. My reword of number. The new number for what was five. Lower rents and address rental costs. Was just a reword in general. I, I, I wasn't sure. You know, just like Pam, I think asked, how is this possible? What is it? Attainable rental housing to resin. So I just reworded that one. Numbers. Number six and seven. I deleted. The publishing data. I felt like that was just too specific in a checkbox. I reworded the staffing strategies one to similar to how the one in climate action is. Regarding funding surges. And then there was a. Excuse me. The advocate for. Higher ed build faculty and staff housing. I thought was too specific and something that. We as a council haven't necessarily. Adopted or discussed. And. Might. Have, I would reword it. I'm going to go to Jen. Yeah. Well, no surprise. I would want to put all those back. I mean, I think we had. In the town manager goals last time. Almost like as a lens to look at policies in terms as if they. Stabilize or support. Maintaining or increasing our year round population. I think. That, so to take that out. For this year is like saying we don't. We've either accomplished it or we don't think that's a priority anymore. I mean, I think. That actually that should be a lens through which we look at a lot of our policies. Do they. Exacerbate or a declining population. Is that going to be the result? Or are they going to help to sustain. And increase. A year round population because that's, I think an existential crisis for our town. So I don't know why we would take that out. And I also think. So I said, I don't know that we actually discussed. I don't know why we wouldn't advocate why that just wouldn't be a given that we'd want our higher education. Institutions. To at least address. Faculty and staff housing in town. I mean, I don't know why I don't know what it hurts to put that there. I can't imagine anybody opposes it. Well, it says advocate that the higher education issues build faculty and staff housing. I think that's part of Paul's job. And it's just, it's just. I don't know that we've ever, that's actually been specifically. That, but that, that's certainly an important part of. But this is something. Expanding our year round population and providing, I see that as all affordable housing. I mean, it's, it's, it's part of because. Are. Part of why we are not sustaining or growing our year round population and why faculty and employees of our colleges and universities can't live here is because housing is too expensive. Even, you know, rental and homeowner opportunities. And we limit home of your opportunities by denying. Duplexes, et cetera. So we, there, and I said that, Jen, because here is a debate that's going on in decisions that haven't really been made by the council as a group. And last year we did agree that we were going to have as a town manager goal. That part of the way we would. Policies would be evaluated is in terms of whether. Or they'd be vetted is whether they help to stabilize and expand our year round population. We did have that in the goals last time. Yes, I know. I know to take that out is making a policy decision. And I don't know why. I don't know why it's controversial. I'm going to go to Lynn. I think you and I are just go. We'll keep going. And I'll go with your thing. Go ahead. I just wanted to mention. I'm not clear that we want to put it in our goals, but in fact. Both. UMass. But even more importantly, Amherst college. And the five colleges are talking about number eight. Again, I just want to mention that I have it here. I just want to mention that that's going on right now. The only rule that the town would have in that is around permitting. And, you know, whether or not those housing units would get. Real estate tax on them and so forth. So anyway, I just wanted to mention it. That's all. Mandy and then turn. So then eight, nine, or whatever. Number one, I don't believe belongs here because we have an entire goal that says relationship. UMass, Amherst college and Hampshire college. If we're going to talk specifically about them. And we want this in here. And I'm not saying we want it in here or not, but it doesn't belong here. It belongs in that goal. And I actually think it's already covered. I think it's already covered. I think it's already covered. I think it's already covered. I think it's already covered. I think it's already covered. I think it's already covered. I think it belongs in that goal. And I actually think it's already covered in that goal. From the general point of view, I, I think. The difference between Jennifer's view and my and potentially Pat's view is the specificity of that. And using these goals to adopt backdoor, backdoor ways to adopt things without full discussion at a council. I don't necessarily disagree. I think we should have conversations with the educational institutions, but if we're going to base our entire housing affordability on telling them to build housing. That's a conversation we should have because that's a massive decision of. Put it to them and not do it ourselves. And I see putting some of this in here. Do it yourself. We don't have an obligation to do it. So I don't want it in housing affordability because I think. It's doing things that is not part of our comprehensive housing policy. It falls under number one other goals more appropriately in this document. And not this one because it falls under that relationship with UMass Amherst college and Hampshire college. And I. So, and then I want to say more about the maintain and publish current current data ones. Well, how much are we going to ask our town to do multiple work because some of that data is already published on state and other nonprofit websites. And how much are we going to duplicate and cost that's the number six and seven of Pam's is very costly. Yeah, it's also a clarification on that because the state data doesn't address how many units are actually affordable because of the definition that makes all the apartments in a building, but I think it's too specific for here. So I agree with that, but for a very different reason. Jennifer. So there were two things I think we need to put four back in because we discussed it at length. Earlier, I think it was like in December of last year and January of this year when we were doing the town manager goals. So it would be a policy decision to take it out because we've already discussed that. So I think number four should remain. And I could accept number eight. Going in another section of the report, maybe what we're talking about. The higher ed. And you're just a clarification for me. You're doing the seek input and I'll propose measures to stabilize housing. We put that in. We just say we care through our town. Okay. The number eight goes somewhere else. The way I'm reading this, if I can understand the goal. The first number one is to. Promote home ownership opportunities for low and moderate income residents, including first time home buyers. The second one is the seasonal shelter and the third one. The second one is. Diversify housing stock available to all residents. Oops, I went away. The thing is this move in some groups. Sorry. I'm just trying not to lose track of it. Yeah. I think if we try to say what we want in. So I think the first one is home ownership opportunity. Home ownership opportunities for lower income. The second one is the shelter. The third one is. Diversify housing stock, which I assume means, you know. Diversify housing for low and moderate income residents. Workforce housing and everything, not just. However we do that. It's more than just single family homes and apartment. It's all. That's, that's what. All those other things. All the types of housing. And then the next one is a little like that stabilized housing for year round population. Lots of strategies. And then the next one after the. The second number four. This is rental housing. And then. Targeting getting federal funds to do all this stuff. Yeah. How does that seem to you? It just seems like a lot of different things. Yeah. Different. The pie lots of different ways to make sure we say. Low income ownership opportunity and. Everybody else also. And different housing. Options available. Is there a way to combine that that makes sense. I'm trying to think that through. So I think if we go back to the comprehensive housing policy. One. Three. Five and six all come from goals. In the comprehensive housing policy. Okay. So do they need to be listed? Would you treat that like the carp? That's what I'm thinking, but. Jen and then Lynn. So the comprehensive housing policy was developed. And adopted, I guess, before the current council. So it doesn't to say, well, we're not going to really put include something that wasn't in the comprehensive housing policy. That also doesn't give. Counselors elected after that much input. It may be time to. I don't want to say. Read revise, but at least. Review the comprehensive housing policy. With the next council. We're going to see if there's things that. Are not addressed or things that. To just make sure it's much more. Reviewed. It's, it's probably, it's time to review it. It was developed in the first council. Took a lot of work to develop it. And a lot of what's here. But what I actually was going to suggest is. I'm going to take the permanent shelter and either put that as one. And so it doesn't disrupt. The issue of resident housing. It might help in understanding this. So it's either one or it's six. I agree with that. But I'm also wondering if we can simply take it out because. We are working on it. That's. I don't. I think it's going to take a lot of work to get state money for it. And so. You think it should stay. And how do people feel about moving it? I think that's a good idea. I think it makes a lot of sense to move it. Where would we move it to a different section? Oh, okay. So, and then have the next P about home ownership. And then, or have the next be about diversity of housing. Then about home ownership and then about rental. That sounds good. And then the shelter. The shelter we went first. And I first or last. So. I would put three as number two. And then I would put. That's the next is home ownership. And now you would put number five is number four. That would put number five is four and then four is five. Is this right? Or did I miss one? Let's read it. I'm going to turn this off. So it's easier to read. Thank you. Oh, thank you. And we would be getting rid of all of the stuff in yellow. Yes. I have a question for Paul. Do you understand what stabilize housing for the year round population means? Cause I'm unclear of what that is meant to mean. Yeah. Yeah. So this topic area is housing affordability, right? That's the topic is. I frankly wondered whether or not it's housing. Access to housing. Or something else because it goes a little beyond affordability. So proposed measures to stabilize housing for the year round population in town. What does that mean? I'm thinking. Jennifer probably has some ideas. So part of when the planning department, their concerns about the proposed zoning revisions was that. Given the realities of supply and demand and Amherst, that. You know, I'm all for more different kinds of housing. Again, I always say this. I live in one of the. There's only two general residents owning districts in town. We have all kinds of housing. That's one reason I wanted to live here. But that. It, it would probably result in more housing. We have to find a way that it doesn't just result in more housing priced per bedroom. That. Our year round population can afford. I mean, we got a, we got an email, the whole council got an email, maybe a week ago from a resident. I don't know. She's not in, you know, I, it's not someone I, I know where I think has written to us before, but was very concerned because she saw the posting for 798. North pleasant street, which is now a four, there's two forward bedroom units. Each is being advertised at $5,500 a month. And that's same. The owners of that property had come before the ZBA very recently to build another. And that's the same. The owners of that property had come before the ZBA very recently to build a duplex with eight bedrooms between the two. And for various reasons, they were not given a special permit because it had to do with complimentary uses. But, you know, that was an example where that was going to be more housing again at $1,100 a bedroom. That is, if that. Is what. Is. If we say we're going to allow more duplexes and triplex is all that's going to happen. We're not going to allow more duplexes and triplex. Certainly not working in support of sustaining and expanding our year round population. Then you have to address the capitalist system. And none of us really want to do that. So we have people buying, selling and utilizing. But I think if we have a, there's things, if we could have a lens looking at. There are things we can do, you know, that, that's another conversation. That's another issue. It's another conversation. But, but we discussed having this. We discussed this earlier in the year. Now I don't know, was it not under housing affordability, but that we were going to have as a town manager goal adopting policies that helped to retain and expand our year round population. So I don't think we can just take them. GOL can right now just decide. We don't want that anymore. We don't want that anymore. We still don't know what really what it is. What it means, but I'm, we're going to stop Jen, you and I, and we're going to go to Lynn and then Mandy, and then you could get another turn. So. I want to. I want to use an example. Okay. And it's something I'm actually very concerned about. And I think it is in line where, where Jennifer. Jennifer's coming from. The city of Rome, Italy. And the city of Rome is not permanently anymore. It is almost all rentals. And short-term rentals. So you can go find all kinds of short-term rentals in Rome, but what you can't find in Rome is anybody who lives there. And therefore has a significant interest in the running of the city of Rome. And if you start, get to the point. don't invest in the town. But if you get to the point where we tip the balance where we no longer have a significant number of ongoing residents year round or who, you know, maybe they don't live here year round. They can be renters. I don't care. They live here year round who will invest in the town and help the government continue to run and be invested in what happens in the town. I really feel then you have crossed a line where we're no longer taking care of Amherst. Now, how do we get there is a very difficult question. But you're seeing this, for some reason or another, another member of the community has regularly now sent me articles where this same conflict is going on in Ithaca, New York. It's going on in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, and it's all about the same thing. Okay, I'm going to say something in response very quickly about renters. They are not all students. Evan Ross was a counselor. He's a renter. It's not your turn, Lynn. It's my turn. Anika Lopes, counselor, is a renter. So I'm not, if you guys want to leave it in there, because it's something you want Paul to do, but it also seems to me that it is something that the council needs to do to talk about how do we stabilize year round population. But Evan Ross is year round population. They can be renters. We're talking about year round. It doesn't matter if they're renters or not renters. Yep. So I'm stepping back and you can leave it there if you want, but anyway. Maybe it should say explore measures or something. And I'm absolutely accept that renters are there, but a renter who is, there's renters. You're talking about long-term renters, a family that has long-term renters. Like Evan Ross and Anika Lopes and her mother. Exactly. Exactly. Okay, Mandy. So maybe year round is the wrong word, number one. But number two, listening to what Jennifer said, when I asked what does stabilize housing for the year round population mean, because I'm not sure what it means, right? Jennifer, you talked about affordability, making long-term living in Amherst affordable, right? That's what it sounded like to me. And I'm not sure how number five then is proposed measures to stabilize is different than increase homeowner opportunities for low and moderate income residents, including first-time home buyers and measures to address and increase the availability of attainable rental housing to residents. That's the affordability issue. And so I guess one thing I'm struggling with is how number five is different from three and four combined. And then year round has, year round has a bad connotation. I'm sorry, but I'm just going to say it because it implies that if you don't live here a year round, you don't belong here. If you're a student, you know, you're not saying non-student population, but that's what you're really implying. And Lynn talked about a completely different issue, that Airbnb issue, the CAPE has a massive problem with all of its buildings being bought up by investors and rented on a short-term basis. And so there isn't any availability for even seasonal rentals, like full-time seasonal workers from May to October. They can't even find housing because it's more lucrative to rent housing on a weekly basis on the CAPE. And that's what investors are doing. So if we're talking about long-term resident population, that might be a little less triggering than year round population, word-wise, and gets to the point Lynn was saying about sort of that short-term investor Airbnb or two months or four months semester by semester rentals, right? Or summer only rentals or week by week on the CAPE if we're talking about it. Places that are bought up and rented only for families coming to visit their kids. And so we removed housing from people who want to live here long-term. Are you suggesting to simply take proposed measures to stabilize housing for long-term residents in town? That might be a solution. Jennifer, how do you just responding just to that? Absolutely no problem. That's great. Okay, that's fine. And I want to apologize for letting my resistance to certain aspects of our community to be rising and interfering with my role as a facilitator, but I easily get mad when I hear crap. Jennifer. Yeah, I just want to say it's, I know I'm not speaking for Lynn, but I think she corrected herself right after we are talking about long-term as nothing to do with renters. I grew up in New York City.  Okay. Paul, do you want to do a quick look at this now? And anything that you would change or don't want there or should be added? Well, it's a lot of initiatives. And it's like everything needs to be addressed up. And this would be the question, like what do you want us to start with? Yeah, what's the priority? That would be the next question to the council. It's fine to list them all, but if we have the limited bandwidth, which we do, what would you like us, what would you like to play in the department to focus on first? These are all priorities. I get that. The shelter is on its own track, but... I think that's where the council, the next council in an early, early retreat. Yeah. You know, in many ways we would, yeah, we don't have to talk about the substance of it now, but... Lynn? I don't think we're going to resolve what to leave in and take out. I think the retreat would identify some more discussion about this and that we owe it to the next council to allow that to happen. And I think if this, I just asked a question for Jennifer, do you think that number five does... I mean, there's been a lot of discussion about the sort of commercialization of our residential housing stock. And I think that's a major issue that people are identifying. Neighbors, neighborhoods turning over to companies that are buying and renting usually to students. Do you think number five addresses that? Because that's a concern the council should identify because that's been raised many times. Do you think number five addresses that adequately? Yes, although housing is only maybe a part of it. Oh, it's a major part of it. But yes, I think it does. I think that just has to be a lens because sometimes I hear policy proposals suggested that I think actually we're work against maintaining a long-term population that will actually drive people away. But I just think it's important for the council to say for those neighborhoods that are feeling like they're tipping into all rent, all, you know, corporations buying houses. And that's across the community. That's what that means. I think that's what you can point to. Okay, Lynn. Unfortunately, Pat, I have a hard stop at about two minutes of 11. I don't. What time is it now? It's 10 minutes till then. Okay. And Paul, you have to leave at 11 as well. We can keep going Jennifer, Mandy, and I because we're still a quorum. Yep. Yes. Paul, is there a very or Lynn, or anyone, a very specific area that you want us to do before you're off this call? The one thing I want to make sure you have is the senior set improvements to the senior physical. That's our next one. I want to make sure that that's in there. Thank you, Paul. Yeah, and that's not and what we're talking about is improvements, not a whole new center. I don't believe, go ahead, Lynn. Explore options for a youth empowerment center and separately and an enhanced senior center or something that renovated or renovated senior center or something that basically is consistent improvements to improved senior center. I like an improvements to the senior center whoever put Mandy. Thank you, Lynn. I had a couple of requested changes to this one. Number six, the multi-year plan. We haven't as a council discussed a multi-year plan per se. I know it's been discussed in various committees. So I actually said facilitate Athena's typing it in facilitate a council discussion on the maintenance of public ways in anticipation of developing a multi-year plan for roads and sidewalks. I'll say the reason I worded it this way is because we talk a lot about roads and sidewalks and that street index. That street index has five categories, but we don't actually talk about where we want all our streets on that list of excellent 100 rated like 98 to 100 down to zero. Are we okay with fair streets because we can get 10 more years out of them and save the money for other things or something? So I think we need to have a discussion about where we're actually going with that the roads and sidewalks and what that multi-year plan would be for before we develop a multi-year plan. And then number seven, I reworded to explore options for and facilitate a council discussion on a youth empowerment center, senior center, and or community center that includes both youth and senior spaces. Improvements to the senior center is great too. So I think we need discussions before we explore options. We have to have better facilitated council discussions. Yeah, I agree. Is there anybody in disagreement with those changes? No, I'm not in disagreement. I would just not be so specific about what's in a community center. I would just say and or community center. There's lots of debate about whether mixing youth and seniors or even children, young children and seniors is really working. So I just said I'd stop at community center with that. I'm okay with just stopping at community center. That's fine. Yeah. Although I like that. Well, anyway, yes, that's fine. And this below is these are PAMs. Yes. It looked exactly the same almost except for number eight. She added the number advocate for the creation of a state level building authority for municipal facilities. So I think that's we are already doing that. But I think we could say and continue to advocate. I wonder if that's part of the management goals though, where we've got management goals of assisted council. Well, this one's just a supporting legislative efforts to address financial of higher ed. So that one's higher ed. But maybe there's a management goal somewhere in administration and leadership that that should talk about advocating for state level changes or something instead of putting it in each policy goal, a more general advocacy. I think that's excuse me. I think that's fine, except the council yourself included and others as well have been part of advocating. So how do we include it as not just a management responsibility? Well, this is the manager's goals. This isn't the council. So it doesn't have to. Right. So I have no problem. But there are certain pieces of legislation that seem to be of much more importance to the council right now. This is one of them. Pilot legislation is one of them. And then, of course, we have all of our special legislation, which we're making absolutely no progress. So we put it under relationship with the council instead of administration and leadership or something. But I think we could just go with a general advocacy thing. That works. And then it doesn't change year to year. Right. We'll reword it, Athena, for generalness when we get there. So can I just very quickly ask, since I've got to go, I'm so sorry about this conflict. It doesn't seem to me like we're going to be ready for Monday. It can be. I think we can be, too, because there are three of us left to go through it. We're different people. We have different responses. I think we're working well together. Okay. And to slow it down, I think would be a mistake. I do want us, the three of us, who are left to look at the carryover memo before we go. And I'm also proposing possibly a meeting of GOL on December 6th. And I do need you here, Lynn. You can't do that. You're going to Boston, Pat. Oh, that's the day we're going to Boston. Okay. Thank you. Never mind. All right. Is there another day, though, because I'm hearing what Pat's saying. Yeah, but basically I can look at that. I think we need another meeting just to, not, I think we can get this done, but I think that we, the rules of procedure, how we're going to present it. And I want to share out that work. I want us looking at that. And I feel like that could be a meeting by itself and wouldn't necessarily even be two hours. But I'd like to figure something else between now and the 13th. And can folks send their, like, their best availability for an extra meeting before the 13th to me and Pat, and we can try and figure out a date that works for everybody. Thank you, Athena. Thank you. Okay, let's get it. Thank you. Bye. Paul, thank you particularly for. This is great. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Let's get into racial equity and social justice. That's where we are. Is that correct? I added this little green thing is mine. In number one, use a racial and social justice lens when making decisions and incorporate significant input from BIPOC and LGBTQ residents in shaping policies and procedures. I think that's a very important inclusion that we have not done before. Mandy. So I did something different. I'm Athena just put it in. I instead in number one, deleted everything after the word decision. So that entire phrase and created a new number five that reworded it to be broader than just BIPOC. Except then I want, I hear you and I'm interrupting and I apologize. And so I was saying marginalized. We got told. May I finish? May I? I did that because number one, I thought it could, if we were going to do it, it should be a different number. It shouldn't be just in the use of racial using the lens when making decisions. We should be incorporating, if we want to incorporate input, it should be its own thing because it shouldn't just be when making decisions. It should be in other sort of things too potentially. So it brings it out as a more important thing. I came up with marginalized. I'm not wedded to from who in terms of how we worded it, but I thought BIPOC was too specific. And so I went to the general marginalized. We can talk about what, but I thought BIPOC was too restraining. Yeah.  And that's not true. Those of us who have, you know, hide and or have been beaten or attacked or whatever. So somewhere in here, you know, marginalized, it's, it's in our community, a debatable definition. So it perhaps input from BIPOC, lesbian and gay, blah, blah, blah, and other marginalized communities because the, thank you Jennifer, because the women's community is also a marginalized community in certain situations. There's not, how does that feel? Hey, Jen, we love you kid. It happens more than occasionally. I know. And I do like you a lot. You too. How does that feel to, well, Mandy? No, that one's fine with me. I just wanted to add, I had also added appropriate town committees because it seems like that sometimes we get a lot of comments that, that the appropriate committees are not brought in the moment when discussions are happening. And that's true. That's true. That's particularly true of the disability committee. They're ignored consistently. Is that, so we use a racial and social justice lens? Yep. Support the work and yep, yep. I feel good about this, that okay, are we ready for management goals? I think so. I was just going to get rid of the hypothetical I added of define essential. Oh, I had one fix. In which one? The not provide leadership right in that paragraph. You were just modifying the anticipate future needs and position the town to meet those needs. It's just a verb thing. Yeah. That we missed last time. It looks like Pam, to talk about Pam's number four, the manager doesn't appoint charter review committee members. The council does. So it's not even appropriate in here. And also maintain essential municipal services is a part of Paul's job that's described. Well, it's number three. She was just saying what hers would be. Yeah. But we've not defined it in the past. So I don't think it needs defining. I mean, I think it could be useful to have that conversation, but not as a management goal. I think it's part of a council conversation. If I can jump in really quick, the I plan to bring up during finance committee discussions of the budget guidelines to need for financial support for the charter review commission. So I think that might be a more appropriate place. You and I, I was going to make sure it was in the financial guidelines too. Good. Okay. Stick it in there now. Having learned from being on the charter commission itself and having to go to tell meeting for funds, I was like, we need to make sure it's in there. Let's keep moving because I want to get this done today and we have to look at the carry over menu quickly. Menu. Now, whatever's in green, I had suggested deleting. And that's what I was suggesting also. Does that feel comfortable? I'm sorry. Can you put, I just didn't read that. What was taken out? Sorry. Work with the APD to identify steps that are documented and informed models for town departments. And that, that what we're saying is foster a proactive anti-racist culture throughout all town departments. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. Good. Okay. Anybody have any other changes there? Let's go to finance. I didn't have any. I just thought I have to mention that. I don't have any.  Let me see. So this is PAM pursuant support efforts to increase chapter nine funding chapter nine and pilot payment to Amherst based on a value of facilities on public land. Is this another one that goes in that policy advocacy level? Yeah. Yeah. Just going to get down here. Okay. Okay. Infrastructure. Anything that people want added? So I had a change to number five. The maintain a list of future road and sidewalk repairs and new sidewalks. I would stop it there and delete everything else. Oh, wait. No, not delete everything else. That incorporates the bike and pedestrian plan only. So the is available to public and regularly updated. I would keep the that incorporates the bike and pedestrian plan. That bike and pedestrian plan is not adopted by the council yet. That doesn't mean it won't be at some point, but I felt that putting it in here sort of implies adoption when we haven't done so yet. I'm not even sure it's finished on a GIS level. So I thought we should delete it. Maybe at some point someone should put it on some council discussion or a TSO transition memo or something about talking about the bike and pedestrian plan, but it's not been adopted at the townwide level yet. And so I didn't think it belonged in here. I'm not uncomfortable with that, Jen. No, I'm fine. I'm sorry. Just community engagement. I had a number six. Well, I had a new number six and deleted the current number six. Okay. Thank you, Athena, for typing in my new number six. So this is the issue with people submit stuff, particularly to see click fix, but it's other things too. And then they never hear back. They know that, you know, if we submit something to IT as a town employee, because we have a problem with our computer or something, we get that ticket system where we get, oh, you've submitted something. Now we've resolved it. And you've got that two way communication. I thought we should have a goal of ensuring that that happens for other things like see click fix or from the resident side when they've submitted a complaint or something or something like that. Jennifer? Yeah, I totally agree. Okay. All right, we can go on. What was the former number six? The number six before was the promote of more child and family friendly town culture. And I just don't understand it. We have that. And we have parks and all this other stuff. So it doesn't feel like, yeah. Do you think that had to do with, if someone wants to like participate in a meeting or be on a board? It may not be the right place for it, but do you think that's what it was getting to? I don't know. Okay. Yeah, I really don't know either. But I would say that we do support a child friendly town in many levels. Relationship with the town council. Is that where number eight should go? Well, so if you page down, Athena, we have in a number three in the relationship there, not all the way down to the UMass relationship one, that number three, assist the council in initiating and supporting state legislative efforts to address all of that. Could we have something in the relationship with the town council that says, assist the council in initiating and supporting state legislative efforts for, you know, I don't know whether we move this one completely, but or keep this here, but add a similar one, a parallel one up here in relationship with the town council that deals with this advocacy for, you know. Do you want assist or advocate or pursue and support? If it's relationship with the council, it would be assist the council or also advocate for, I don't know how to word it, right? But it would be like assist the council in initiating and supporting state legislative efforts they have. Do you want to list, do you want to list these three things? Well, it's, but it's more than that, right? Because it's all of our special acts and all. I think it's state legislative efforts they've prioritized. The council has prioritized. I don't know. I don't know the word. For legislation. For special act legislation or. For council priority state legislative actions and council special act legislation. I'm sorry. And council and council special acts. I think it's assist the council in. I don't know. The wording is not the greatest. It works for now, I think. Just the council in and advocate for. So this state legislative action, this one is encompassing these three. Do you want to say including? And I should say count council priorities. And including building authority. I could go with that, Jennifer. More trying to say assist the council in advocating for. I think I'm trying to say both assist the council in advocating for and advocate for on his own. Yeah, right. Both. And then do we want to say specifically called out such as the state level building authority and pilot payment to Amherst based on value of facilities on public land. Because I think those two are important to call out. So I think it would be. We could call out all three that would require potentially every year modifying this. But I think it'd be okay to call them out. So it's not efforts to increase it would be increasing chapter 90 funding. comma. And increasing pilot payments. I think you could just say and pilot payments because it's already you're saying and increasing chapter 90 funding and pilot payments. There's two different things though, in a way. All right, that's fine. So I put a comma after chapter 90 funding and then I would actually move council special acts to before all of this. Yes, indicate for council special acts and council priority state legislative actions such as because otherwise the special acts get buried. Can we go back to the beginning? How I'm I'm having trouble with assist the council in and advocate for council special acts and council priority state legislation action. So maybe we should say advocate for and assist the council in advocating for. I'm sorry. Yeah. Okay. Go ahead and confuse for some reason. So this is too prompt. He needs to assist us in our advocacy at the state level. But we're also saying he needs to advocate to. Did there be a comma advocate for comma and assist the council in advocating for comma? Yeah, that works. That works well, Jim. And then we delete what Athena put in to help us. So it says council priority on. I think I should say prior. Yeah, go ahead missing there. I think it's council prioritized state legislation. Ah, okay. Yes, that's not, yeah. Does the council have prioritized state legislative action? Well, I think it's state legislation. So we've sometimes adopted resolutions and stuff. That in theory might be something like that. Okay. Jennifer. So this would be this would be defined as something that the council has formally expressed support for. Yeah, we'll be support. Because I don't think they have has the council formally expressed support for any of these. No, yes. Pilot payments, right? Can I just, I think we have. Okay. No, I have to jump in time. Lynn has said we were sending a letter to like the legislature. I think that was for the building municipal that we wanted. So I think there's two of these. And I think the pilot payments, Lynn sent a letter twice and the council approved it. I mean, twice meaning once for each of those items and we approved it. Yeah. I think Jennifer's right. Okay. It might not be through resolution, but it's been through council letters. That we voted on in council. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Can we go on to relationships with the university, et cetera? I had two quick things. Yep. Execute and manage strategic partnership agreements since we just executed one. I think there needs to be an and after number one and two because we just got rid of number three. And then, yeah, I deleted the including factors such as institutional growth and change is sort of a little too specific. It's not that I was against it. I just thought in trying to clean up language. And I think that number of that's the, we have to talk about that number eight then, I guess. Yeah, build faculty and staff. I don't mind advocating for that, but have we talked about that as a council? Not really. Yeah. So I, Jen. So if we leave it here and then the council approves it, wouldn't that be approval? Well, and that, that's what I don't like about stuff like this. I know. I've got that approval, Jen. We're like sneaking around and we don't need to do that. I mean, it's a, it's a wonderful idea. The idea isn't that it is. Add some of the idea to the work with UMass, Amherst, and Hampshire to develop a strategic plan on economic development that would enhance, enhance economic vitality, but add economic development and housing and housing issues or something. Yeah. Economic development and housing issues. That wouldn't, and housing issues that we don't even then have to add the, that would enhance economic vitality, maybe. Would that work, Jennifer, maybe? Yes. And then we'll just, yes, because I think that we're going to talk about this. So it'll be part of, when there's a discussion with the colleges about housing issues, I think now it's in the consciousness that that would be part of the conversation. Right. We can tell them to build faculty housing and they'll go right the way and do it. Wouldn't that be wonderful? Jesus. Well, I have to say, this is an aside, Pam, at that when the chancellor had that gathering at his house, she found herself at the end talking to him and mentioned this and he was very interested. Great. Now these are things that Kathy, now this is not, she sent another whole Hoogy. That's very long and complex. So I don't know whether we want to do so. So I think number three, we've covered in a roundabout way. And see here, use ARPA for solar. That's, we haven't decided that as a council, although I certainly like it. It's very specific to write in the support staff for securing federal tax credits. We just put in there as the inshore, whatever that use of, you know, that we take full availability. And we have pilot. Yeah, I don't think we need that. And I think our rewrite on the buildings. Right. We rewrote them to support the elementary school building committee, you know, that I don't know how, you know, she says get through construction on time. Well, yeah, that's not that's a very specific manager do that when it's the building committee that that does all of that. So and mobilize staff at DPW to support. I don't know what that means and the library vote. Yes, this will create a construction mess. I think Paul knows that. I don't think, you know, I don't think we need to have lists that it's very specific. DPW, we tried to do that. Right. We tried to be a little more specific. Identify and secure a location or locations for the Department of Public Works. I think I would ask Paul at a meeting whether, you know, in terms of maybe partnering with another town like Hadley to have a shared facility for DPW. And he said that he thought that could be a town manager. Goal. Yeah, one of the things he also said was that they were had been trying to do that. And it had not worked. It had collapsed and that it's very difficult to, you know, we had a whole ambulance collaboration for and then they pulled out and stuff like that. So yeah, I would also say. That our current goal of identifying and secure locations for the Department of Public Works. It covers potential regional, right? We didn't say it had to be an Amherst. We didn't say it couldn't be regionalized, right? And so that potential regional gets that specificity that I think we're trying to move away from. Okay. So does this feel comfortable, Jen? Yes. We just go back and look at that racial equity. What was that? One more time to see what our final, or was it public safety? I can't remember. Okay, here. No, I think it was public safety, but we were talking about the resident oversight board. Oh, community health and safety. Where are we? That one here. Okay. I just wanted to see what our final wording was. Can you roll up? Oh, no, never mind. Okay. Is that okay? Yes. Great. Do we vote on these? Yes. Let's take a formal vote on I move that we accept or we recommend to the council. Give me a moment. Okay. But the policy goals, whatever that whole title of the thing is, as amended at the 1129 meeting. I'll second. And can I just, do we have to do a formal roll call vote? Jennifer Bob? Yes. Mandy Johanke? Aye. Patricia Catherine DeAngeles? Aye. I never knew that was your middle name. Pat Cate. Nobody's ever called me that. Patty Cate. Nobody called me that. But Patty. Patsugeta was my favorite one. Can we leave this now? I think we did what we need to do here and I want us to look at the carryover or the transition memo. And Jennifer, I want to thank you for working on that with me. Oh, you did most of it. Yeah, but, you know, anyway, can you call that up, Athena? And I have no idea what time it is. So it's 11 to 11. Okay. Can people stay a little bit longer? Yes. So hang on. I need to say this before. Yeah. Yeah. Take your time. What's in there for the carryover menu? Memo now is the document as it's been edited. It's not your track change one, Jen, or, you know, whatever. And again, it might not, I put it in. Yeah. Mandy, have you hand raised? So I think everything that has a current referral, the GOL, is a measure that is automatically carried over per the Council Rules of Procedure. And yet this one lists none. So that's the Black Reparations Committee Charge. I thought that, okay, where I put that was down below. Yeah, no, that's anything that has a formal referral vote referred to GOL is an automatic carryover. Okay, can you scroll? So let's just review what those are. We can go through this. Yeah, that's the review process for developing the goals. That's the Black Reparations Charge. Yeah, so that measures that will be automatically carried over. So that's the Black Reparations. Is it? And it's the review process, the Black Reparations, the Charter Review Committee Appointments, the NUSA. Hang on. By law. Hang on, wait a minute. The Charter Review Committee Appointments? Yeah, I'm just, what exactly will GOL, we just review the committee description. We don't do the appointments, do we? I don't know. So I'd have to re-look at the motion. This is where pulling the actual motions helps and typing the motions into and putting the motions in this document helps. Whatever the motion for the Black Reparations Committee Charge was, that should just be in here. Whatever the motion for, I think lighting, I think street lighting is now in here maybe, but maybe not. It is, it should be. This hasn't been referred to GOL. Yeah, I thought it had been, but go ahead. I don't think it has, so that would be an item that could be carried over or should be. Okay, and it's, I believe that's listed there, so that can come out. And if Charter, depending on what the motion for Charter Review Committee Appointments is, that should probably be a, it might need to be under items that should be carried over or whatever that third set is. Subjects of discussion, but not those issues that have been discussed, things like that. That one might need to be in there, because that's going to need started soon after the council starts. But we might need a motion that CRC, that GOLs, the council might need a motion that GOL will do those appointment recommendations. But it should be in here, so it's not lost. Waste hauler. Oh yeah, waste hauler. No, did we actually vote on establishing the waste hauler? No. No, so. No, no, no, but Pat, when, under our rules, when a bylaw is referred to a committee for substantive discussion, it is automatically referred to GOL too for review of clarity, consistency and actionability. So it's part of these referrals carried over. But if it never got, it doesn't get recommended back to the council. It's after TSO makes a recommendation for changes to the bylaw, it comes to GOL. And I think that was included in the referral to TSO. It was to TSO with input from finance and then after to review GOL, right. Jen? I just have a question. Let's say TSO was not going to recommend a bylaw, then it wouldn't come to GOL. Right, but we don't know what they're going to do. Yeah. I'm just saying any, not just waste hauler, but. Yes, yeah, yeah. But for now, it's a carryover item because it comes to GOL for the motion. And yeah, there was a motion that tasked GOL with that review. Is there any change for measures that will not be carried over? I don't think so. Those are all the items that we've referred out with a no vote. Yeah. Think waste hauler is two words. Yeah. Yeah. We can, when the, let me add the motion. We can fix that. Nuisance property, it hasn't been referred yet, or has it? But those upcoming bylaws for review are, should be up in that automatically carried over, right? They don't need, they don't need to be here. Oh, here it is. Yeah. Oh, okay. It's up against them. I guess it's up against them. Yeah. Okay. I see what I did. Okay. So I'm going to move all these to. Yeah. Yeah. And then you can clean. Yeah. Because some of them are already in the list. I think you should keep general bylaw 3.3, refuse and get rid of the other version. Yeah. That's what I was just going to suggest. Yeah. Anything else, Jen? No, that's what my suggestion was to not call it waste hauler. Now, so then what goes in items that should be carried over? Well, that's, that's discussion. So that is the bylaws for confusion. I think these bylaws for future consideration or whatever that were referred to the manager go in here because that's a, here's something that might come. Right. The evaluation process was a referral. Oh, sorry, sorry. No, you're, you're, you're right. I think that was a referral. It's here. But something like the goals discussion we just had that hasn't formally been referred if we wanted to do something with, could be in here. The rules of procedure are should be carried over if they need reviewed once a year or something. And we haven't finished. So that's, you know, yeah. And we, what we had talked about, if I remember correctly, is finishing the changes and then figuring and then reporting to the new council and letting them make final decisions, which could be weird, but that's fine too. So outside standing items are those future consideration. I didn't have a feeling that, yeah. Okay. Now this needs to be into Lynn today at noon. So is that possible for you to do Athena, or do you want me to take it back with these changes and then it's not going to come to the council until December 18. Oh, okay. I think Lynn wanted. Lynn wanted a discussion on the fourth to have all the drafts of these. Oh, right. Right. A discussion on the fourth. But it doesn't need to be final until the 18th. Okay. So the committee will have another opportunity to look at these. But I'll send it to you so you can, if you want to add motions before you send it to me and Lynn for the packet on Monday. Okay. So would you do me a favor and send me this version that we just did and then I'll update and send. Do we take this out outstanding items? Because this is, yeah. Yeah. I think that works as a draft. Okay. Anything else that should be added or? So Michelle had some language for the ABRC. So in the past, some committees have put like a discussion, you know, what, what the committee, a summary of the committee's discussion so far so that a new GOL isn't starting from scratch. So would you like me to paste in what Michelle? You're muted. I'm muted because Carol came in for a moment. And that it would be useful here too. Because the committee said extension extensive discussion about this. Yeah. Thank you. Motion in and then you do a little bullet point of where the committee stands on each one.  Can we look at Michelle's materials? Yeah. What Michelle sent was kind of wasn't as much of the GOL conversation. Does that need to be in there? It's background. Okay. That's fine. But it might be helpful to have a summary of the committee's discussion, which is what had been done in the past. Well, we haven't really discussed. We started discussing it. It's been referred to us. But we are saying we have decided that it's basically that it's complex enough that we want to carry. And, and some of this that it is understood by the current council that the chosen structure should ensure that I'm not sure the council had that discussion. We know we did not. We have. Yeah. Should I take this out? Yeah. Or should we send it back to Michelle for? Well, this draft will have an opportunity. The committee will have an opportunity to work on this somewhere. I think it could add. I think that's a good sort of start, but focus is much more on the report that came to the council than where GOL's discussions where our status is. Yeah. This is like background, but not the GOL discussion. Right. So I don't want to keep it in, but we could title that if we wanted to keep it in background and then another bullet point that says GOL status. Yeah. And basically. It's in a legal review right now with some legal questions. So one legal review. Also, there is the discussion about whether or not it should be a separate committee or integrated into another committee. That has not been completed. And there's also the discussion is to. I think part of what was brought up was. Is this adopting all recommended if we put this committee in and some of the content of the charge. Would that in effect adopt the whole report? So like there's, there's been, we mentioned some discussion about what is the committee's charge and how does that have an effect on adoption of the report or not? I'm not sure I worded that right, but there were certain some languages in the charge that indicated if we adopted the charge, the council would be going forward and supporting all recommendations in the report. And we're not Ness because we haven't really had a discussion of the whole thing. So we're not sure. Some of the questions we brought up about reviewing this charge and we've been trapped in different ways because we haven't paid attention when we've been looking at things and then and then the expectation and it's reasonable that there's an expectation that it's all accepted because we haven't as a council really necessarily done that clearly enough. Jen, how are you doing on this one? Can we get, are we making a motion? Not right now. All right, can we scroll down to the town manager goals and the status? And basically we are, we are GLL discussed. Having a council. Council retreat. Go ahead. What were you going to say? Because I don't know. This is not two-year goals. Established priorities within the goals. Two slash five-year goals because Paul changed it afterwards to two or five-year goals. And it was also set priorities within the goals. Yeah. And then, oh wait. The referral also requires, you know, we haven't had a discussion, right? But, but the new GLL will have to discuss the timing part and all. Yeah, and that's not, there's no time for that this year, but timing of it. And yeah. Would we recommend that that discussion occur sooner or later? I've found sometimes having recommendations of when things need to happen, like. Like the first quarter of the year? Yeah, versus the second quarter. Are we talking about, yeah. Start with of these carryovers type things. Great. Sorry, I couldn't type and listen at the same time. What, what do you want me to add here? And if, and do I need to change anything that I put in? Oh, I think we were talking about the timing of the evaluation and the extent of the evaluation. That's part of the referral, but GLL hasn't had that discussion, but the new GLL will need to discuss that. And then I was saying, should we within all of these recommend sort of the first couple of agendas or something? What should be taken up for a second or third thing? Seriously, GLL should take these items up early. In the calendar year. I would say the first half of the year. I think it actually should be the first quarter. I think you should be the first quarter too. First quarter is fine. Because the whole thing is we don't want it all completed the way it is now. Okay. Is that okay? Yes. Try to review appointments, committee appointments, statuses. That would need to be the first quarter of the year. The status is that the council will need a motion on who is making recommendations. And then if it's to GLL, GLL will need to make the recommend, we'll need to, we'll be advertising it. We've taken care of that part. The bulletin board notices out, GLL will need to move swiftly on the rest of the policy for making recommendations on that. And I would say that's the first quarter of the year. And appointments should be capitalized. That's minor. We all right with that? And let's go down. And then Pat, when, if you're doing, if you're pulling in the motions, then we should just, we should change this. If it's a, if the council already made a motion, if that was already part of the council's. I don't remember. Either do I. It was. I don't, I don't remember if it was not, it should go on the first or first agenda for the new council or the first business meeting agenda. Because I think the council's going to meet what on January 2nd, and then also on the 8th or something. Yeah. The second's just the swearing in and the. And the do. Okay. So I think those, the upcoming bylaws for review, you can simply just say, when other committees finish their recommendations, GLL will need to take up a review of clarity, consistency, and actionability, something like that. Because none of these are all clarity, consistency, actionability items. Completely. No. Anything else? You okay, Jen? Yeah. No, I'm just looking at, I'm going to have to get, I have something at 12, but that's 15. What time is it? 11.45. Oh, hi, Lynn. I'm almost done with the carryover. I think we're probably close enough to call it a draft. I'm just trying to see if I can find quickly the vote on the charter review commission.  Yeah, I thought we voted on it, but. I thought so too. I just want to see if I can. Do this so we can fix it now. We did vote on it. But the, if it was to task Joe, all with. Actually make D it was probably nine 11. The appointment. Wait, to refer development. I found it to reverse development of the bulletin board notice and calf. The appointment process will begin with this council vote continue to the next. So GOL hasn't been tasked. So should this move to, because there hasn't been a motion to recommend appointments. So should this be moved to items that should be carried over instead of automatic carryover? Yes. Yeah. Cause we've done the part that was referred to us. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Right. We could even potentially recommend a motion for the council to take up on its first meeting. Yeah, that's it. So is that something that's going to go on a GOL agenda before December 18? Would this GOL want to make a recommendation for the council to take up a motion to refer the appointment process for charter review commission to GOL? Yeah. Yeah. The first meeting. So then we should put it on our next agenda. They could be on the 13th, right? That should be on a GOL agenda to talk about and discuss on the 13th. And then it can be on. On the 18th. So either on the 18th for this council to vote or on January 8th for the next council to vote. Right. And I'm going to pause us for a brief second. When are you finished? When you're finished, I think I just want to pause for a second to call for public comment. And we don't have anybody. Right. I know that's why. But I have to officially just I didn't know if you were looking. Yeah. And it's adjourned. Okay. Public comments. Excuse me. Public comment is finished. Yes. Sorry. I was able to come back in. Could I suggest that since the four or five of us are the critical number that needs to set a date that we try to do this quickly by looking at our calendars? We're not there yet, Lynn. Okay. Okay. Let's scroll down. Are there any relevant documents missing? I took out public forums because we don't hold. I don't believe we hold them. As GOL, I see, you know, so. I think you've got them. I have one requested addition for this memo. Oh, what is it? Which is attachments. I'm not sure. I have to think to see. I think the A RBC charge needs attached because that one's been formally referred to. Okay. Yes, you're right. Any documents that have been formally referred. I don't think like attaching nuisance or lighting or anything is relevant at all. But for those upper referrals, the manager goals, the evaluation process, all of those documents should probably be attached to the memo. That makes sense. So this would be attached the. I think the goals we adopt and then Lynn's always created like a timing document or something was in our packet for GOL, probably in August or something. Is that something that you mean the calendar for the calendar for the evaluation and all something like that to help the next committee do this timing issue. In fact, I can give you kind of the packet that might even be useful to have the whole packet that we give to the council for the first meeting when we discussed your evaluation. But they should be attached to this as documents. That's fine. That's a great both ideas are good. And then this one charge. Wait a minute, Mandy. Yeah, you're going to say. I was going to say the committee charge when we were talking about Charter Review Committee appointments that charge could probably be attached. So I think I put a note in. Yeah. Oh, the Charter Review. I'm sorry. The Charter Review one. Not yeah, that was that charge. Do we want motions that sent this to us? Yeah, I have notes and to include the motions. We need to do that. Thanks. I'll just do this. Yeah. And then Athena, if you could send it to me and to Lynn, then she'll have it by 12 o'clock. Should we include the motions for these? Why did I need it by 12 o'clock? I don't know. I have a thing that you did last. An email. Oh, that's right. The email I sent to you. Yeah. Occasionally I'll give you emails. Athena, I think it would be good to include those motions. Okay. Pat, I don't know if I can, if I can help you hunt those down today. I can hunt down. We can do that later. But I just want a copy of what this to me and to Lynn. Is it okay to leave it like this for? Absolutely. Is it the draft? Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. The council can absolutely see this the way it is. Okay. Now I want to, yeah, are we, I think we're finished with that. Yeah. Do we need to vote on it or anything? I don't know. Oh, not yet. The one thing I want to say is Kathy, Shane, Jen, you sent stuff, but I think we incorporated your stuff as we were working. We incorporated Mandy's. Kathy, Shane, last minute yesterday sent me a big long list. I'm going to go through and I will see what, once I have this, the other document. So send me that also, the amended manager goal thing. I will look and see because she's going to have to bring them up at a council meeting. At a council meeting, I think, because of when, but I'll look and see what we've already done. We may have done some of the things that she's taught. Yeah. It might be wise when you're writing the report on the manager goals to, if you look at what she's done when we talked about, oh, but that's included in X goal here to address some of that so that she sees how we might have, why we might not have put her specific language in. If, if, if we did address some of the stuff she talked about, right? You know, when talking about the pilot payments or something saying, well, we put that here, not here. You know, things like that. You're muted. Muted. Yeah, my phone was ringing. The, the ones that were there, those she sent a little while ago, but she has sent a very detailed version that I need to look at. And, and Jen, I may be asking you to also look, I'll write up the. Yeah, send it to me if you want me to. Yeah, that's helpful. Or you can write it and I can look at what you did. Okay. But send me what she wrote. Oh, I, I will. Okay. If I get sent the revised, you know what, if Athena can send me what we did, and then you send me Kathy's, I can. Okay. That would be extremely helpful to me today. I want to say that publicly, Jen and I often go head to head, but that there's, I think, and I know that there's real respect between us and stuff, and I really appreciate your willingness to. And I really enjoy your company.  But does Lynn need that by 12? When do you need this? That's what she said. No, not, no, no, not Kathy's thing on the evaluation. No, the memo, the carry over the transition memo. That's what she wanted by noon. One minute. So I have four minutes to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, we're going to come up with a new meeting time for next week. Yeah. Oh, right. Can I, can I just start by suggesting an idea like November? I'm sorry, December, December 5th. Anytime available. I'm fine with a typical time on the 5th of 930. Okay. I can do that. I'm through. I would have a very hard stop because I'm supposed to be at the survival center unusually, but I could shift that somewhat. So Tuesday the 5th. Can we do nine? Can we do nine? I have a stop at 11. Yeah. Nine to 11. Seven to 11, that works. I can do that. I can do it too. Okay. And I can do it.  Oh. Are you available on the 7th in the morning? Yes. Yes. And let me look. No. Let me look. No. Okay. I think that's fine. No, I could do the afternoon on the 7th. On the 7th? I could do the afternoon on the 7th. I'm doing a nine o'clock after the council meeting. I don't either, but I could do like three o'clock on the 7th. I can't. I can't. I have a mobile market meeting at 4.30. I could be there for part of the time. And I'm busy from 10 to 2.30. Friday morning? Friday morning. It would have to be between nine and 11. I can do nine to 11 on Friday morning. I can too. I can. Okay. Bettina, that was a you, Ken? Oh, all right. And somebody has to check with Michelle, but we don't need her for a quorum. Right. Are we doing nine or 9.30? Nine to 11, because I have this survival center that I need to be by 11.30. And I'm good with that. And I'm glad we got that set. Yeah. And sometimes in the morning, I have to run away. My body is fooling around. So, Jen, if that happens, we'll just flip in and out. Yes. I'm very happy to have that in mind after. And it could be a long council meeting on the 4th. Yeah. I'm sure it's going to be a quick one. We're going to keep our, our, Whatever the octopus. I think she's drunk. Let me put it this way. You could all contribute to it being. You can make the annual report state of the town address like five minutes, Lynn. That'll help me. We're trying to keep it to 20. We have agreed to no more than 20 total. And we're not doing library or school committee. We're not? They have their annual reports in the packet. They're not voting on the library, correct? Mandy, Joe, if I can get it to seven, I will. How's that? As usual, this is a great team. Thank you. All right. Okay. And Tina, you're going to send me, Lynn and Jen, the different updates. I'll send you the carryover, the draft carryover memo and the town manager goals voted by GOL. Yes. Anything else? Anybody? No, and you'll send me Kathy's email. Oh, yes. I'll do that right away. Athena, will you be in the office at one? For a gender review? Yeah. Yeah, I'll be here. Okay. I'll see you then. Okay. In the office. Okay. All right. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thanks. Are we adjourned? We're adjourned officially at 1158 a.m. Thanks. Bye.