All right, it is 6 p.m. reporting in progress on Monday, May 1st I'm going to call to order this meeting of the Winnieski liquor control board Please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance led by counselor Oakley Thank you, all right Jenny, please join us we have a liquor control license applications and entertainment permits Yes So the entertainment permits we brought up last week about four quarters, but we've had some I reached out to some who had them last year And so they wanted The entertainment permit for the year so these are renewed on an annual basis and they can they don't have to have set days It's one $175 for the year and then the restaurant applications I just have to add if I can the tiny tie paid as well that just came in today and then So our whole foods wicked wings. They're they're pending. They're pending. You're just waiting for the state piece Okay, any questions for me? Only if there's any complaints Community complaints or any violations? No, I said the code No Okay, these are all under item a for discussion approval. Do I have a motion to approve? So moved Second Motion by brinn second by charlie all those in favor. Please say aye. All right motion curious Thank you. That is the end of the liquor control board agenda. Do I have a motion to adjourn? So moved Motion by charlie second by aurora all those in favor. Please say aye. All right motion curious. Thank you Thank you. Thank you, jenny I will now it is 6 o 2 p.m. I will call to order the winoski city council meeting First up is agenda review Any concerns about the order of the agenda this evening? No Great Next up is public comment We have no public comment No public to come We have an attendee, but they're here for an hour Uh consent agenda We have our minutes from april 17th payroll warrant counts payable Memorial Day Parade event permit application and annual financial plan for town highways Any questions about any of these items? I was thinking about removing e just for a little bit more Detail on that Where would we add that lane? Oh Why don't you make it a One that way john can be here to explain it Okay, I guess he's staying to the end of today, but Does anyone else want to well You want to make a motion to pull that out? I would like to move to move To remove agenda consent agenda item e From and place it on the regular items Second Motion by brin second by aurora all those in favor. Please say aye. Aye Okay, motion carries Any questions about any other items? What someone likes to make a motion to approve the consent agenda? So moved Second motion by charlie second by aurora all those in favor. Please say aye. All right. Motion carries. Thank you Council reports aurora Okay, so we were able to reschedule april's inclusion and belonging commission meeting we held that actually last thursday During which we Had a really in depth discussion on What a stipend policy would look like so Jenny and i kind of wanted to wait until we had that discussion before drafting the policy And we hope to have that before the council at our next meeting With all of the items that the inclusion belonging commission brought up including thinking about If members are participating in interviews for commission members like how does that work under the stipend policy? So that was a really great discussion And we have a new member who we The council brought in last time so she was actually able to attend the april meeting and had some really great contributions So really excited To have ruth on board And that's all I really have for council updates. Thank you Margaret Yes, um margaret bass did resign from the commission. Her term was up at the end of june But due to personal matters. She felt that she couldn't Um show up in the way that the commission needed and so stepped down. So we are Looking for a fifth member But we really really appreciate the contributions that margaret has brought to kind of getting this up and off the ground. So Thank you So we didn't have an infrastructure committee commission meeting in april due to lack of agenda items Anticipate holding our next meeting april 18th Should have a lot more to discuss at that point in time Um green up day is this coming saturday. I'm sure city staff will get into more details. So I'll leave it at that I'm very excited And hope to see a lot of people out Out cleaning up and greeting up when you ski on saturday. So that's it. Thank you Uh on thursday the planning commission held a public hearing on updates to parking and incentives for historic preservation Which I have been previewing um They did not advance those to council yet There had been concerns from one of the local developers that the changes could reduce density So we asked for more information for the next meeting to understand why this individual was suggesting that because that wasn't the intention of the changes that were made So that will happen at their next meeting on may 11th At which time they may move those try to advance those changes to the council We would hold a public hearing Before adopting any new regulation changes They canceled their second meeting in may They also looked at a map for a potential design review district Which would add an additional layer of review to the permitting process to any properties within The new district That's going to be I I think several months of ongoing discussion and the borders of that could change and what exactly would get included in design review Also will likely change throughout the discussion process So more come on that um We had the event permit application for Memorial Day Parade in the consent agenda When you skis annual Memorial Day Parade has not happened in four years The vfw and rva put that on in partnership and they're really excited to bring it back this year The city city staff also participate They are looking for groups um community groups People with interesting vehicles businesses floats anyone to participate Anyone is welcome It is saturday may 27th Thank you, uh the parades at noon They are also seeking volunteers. You can call the vfw or drop in the day of around 10 or 11 um Yeah, and there's a free barbecue meal afterwards That is it for me Housing commission will be thursday at six o'clock. That's our we didn't have quorum last month. So we'll be Meeting for my real official first time at that point. So excellent. I'll have more for you next time Thank you city updates It's a long one, so But look a green update is uh this saturday Please join your neighbors for a green update in monoski saturday may 6th You can pitch in and then and also enjoy this annual tradition, which is statewide by cleaning up public spaces in the community Participants can grab their green up bags early at winoski city hall or the a brian community center until may 5th On green up day stop by the winoski senior center from 8 30 a.m. To 2 p.m To get your green up bags and you can enjoy light refreshments that are provided by swarms cafe You can also stop by four quarters brewing from 12 a.m 12 p.m to 4 p.m To get your bags and free hot talk Staff and volunteers will be available for assistance Feel free to green up any part of the city for full event details and guidelines You can visit winoski vt.gov slash green update No spaces or dots or underscores just green update one word Vacancies the city winoski is searching for engaged and dedicated residents to serve on our boards commissions and committees These opportunities are an excellent way to get involved in the public process If you're looking to get connected to your neighbors or discover a new way to give back to the community Don't look any further than this opportunity Um applicants with related experience skill sets and interests are encouraged to apply Council and staff welcome diverse voices. If you've never served, we will do our best to support you Current seat vacancies include the finance commission Inclusion and belonging commission A brand new youth member position for the winoski memorial library committee The chinan county regional planning commission planning advisory committee The winoski valley parks district board of trustees And the chinan solid waste district board of commissioners You can learn more about these physicians by visiting the news updates section at winoski vt.gov On a similar note, the city will have an announcement in the coming weeks Advertising our annual board commission and committee term explorations, which are right around the corner on june 30 Lafountain street and deans street local concerns meeting The chinan county regional planning commission invites you to attend the first public meeting of the lafountain street and diorama on street scoping study on monday may 8th at 6 30 p.m. At winoski city hall The purpose of the study is to investigate potential street Reconfigurations along lafountain street and die on street spanning from main street to east allen street based on public feedback The public is encouraged to participate in all phases of the study Starting with a local concerns meeting The goal of the local concerns meeting is to gather input on local concerns Transportation needs and ideas to develop alternatives This is an excellent opportunity to share your concerns and suggestions to enhance the quarter For pull up project full project details. Please visit the news updates section of winoski vt.gov or visit ccrpcvt.org And finally there will be a blood drive at the senior center The winoski fire department is hosting a blood drive in partnership with the american red cross at the winoski senior center on friday may 19th From 12 to 5 15 p.m. Please consider signing up today. Your donation can save a life Visit the news updates section on winoski vt.gov to learn more Is that all that is all all right, thank you So we'll move into regular items and our new item a is the annual financial plan town highways item from consent agenda John, can you please give us an overview of what that is? This is an annual filing requirement with vtrans that We pull out what we spend for the current year for those categories and road maintenance so One of the main reasons we do this is We have to do the filing in order to be able to Precure any vtrans grants from here, but angel. I don't know if you want to chime in on like how you pull out those funding No, it's based on the fy 24 budget data that you approved We pull out the pieces that are specifically winter maintenance. So primarily overtime and salt and sand Um, most other items are considered normal operations Um capital budget where we are spending tax dollars Um directly on major capital improvements are also called out Basically, the state wants to know that we're spending a certain amount per capita On our roads. We just have to prove that we're spending a certain amount per lane mile We far exceed the amount that we're required to in order to be eligible for grants Thank you. Are there any questions from council? Um, does So you made it you you mentioned that salt and sand are included or is line striping included as well Yes, that's in the operations line item not the winter maintenance line item. Okay, great. Yeah, I was reading through this and um appreciated having just some additional context and Refreshing my memory for previous years on the the reasoning behind it purpose and what's included in the estimates. Thank you Would someone like to make a motion to approve the annual financial plan for town highways? So moved second Motion by brin second by aurora all those in favor. Please say aye. Aye Motion carries. Thank you We're under the old item a um the operational overviews discussion Ray, are you going first? All right, we'll hear about the community services department first Paul's gonna pilot my Slides for me So paul you can skip to the next one So as you've seen throughout um quick snapshot of our staff here and if you can go to the next slide just a little bit Frankly for my old eyes a little bit easier to read the folks that are here um, you know our department is kind of chunked into I guess four major buckets recreation and parks um our library Children and family programs and senior programs And then there's a youth interventionist and an admin that sort of work across the department in support of all those areas In some way shape or form As you can see the rec department has a number of seasonal employees So that's an area where we see a big growth spike in the summer And then as the weather gets cool again things quiet down for us and we end up with a lot fewer staff One thing of note here is that uh as part of the budget process we did Move from two americorps members, which we are currently Supporting next year's budget was going to be supporting one We found out about a week and a half ago that the Agency we get our americorps members from is not going to be renewing their federal grant next year So we are hunting around right now for another agency through which to get members and exploring some different options But I just wanted to give that heads up that that's something we're kind of wrestling with which was totally out of the blue We were I've worked for the agency for 17 years and was shocked. So Um, something like a little curveball for us, but um I think we'll explore kind of ways that we can backfill that Service time if we do run out of options on americorps And any any questions on the sort of broad constellation of staff um, and we can kind of jump into each of the areas specifically Um, just a reminder that we're taking the Oversight of the lifeguards in house this season Last last season. We actually did that for the first time. Yep And that uh, so the ymca managed the lifeguards season one and last year They were our employees as were the pool supervisors so that um And you know nothing against the y but I think that worked really smoothly having just everybody under one management structure Um, so yeah excited and we have a lot of people coming back from last year, which is great For a much smoother start to the season, I think All right, go ahead Paul next slide So wrecking parks, you know within here, um, we are, you know, not surprisingly designing and delivering lots of different types of programs really I'm a sucker for a sports metaphor, but I really view wrecking parks as our centerfielder They're the part of our department that is sort of looking for the gaps and filling those around the other parts of what we do Um, so it does tend to be programmatically pretty broad and pretty diverse in terms of the offerings Obviously with the usher influx of resources We have been very youth focused the last two and a half years. Um, just because we had a huge injection of resources Um, but our continuing to try to look at ways to expand opportunities and offerings for adults as well Um, also here, you know, Myers pool obviously is a big left in the summertime Managing our parks is something that we are also, you know In the context of our parks plan trying to do more and more of And then seasonal community garden work as well Uh, I put in the bottom there because I didn't really know quite where else to stick it But the O'Brien center, there's a lot of management that goes on there, especially around public usage As we've seen since northland studios left a big need that we're trying as best we can to fill With our staff. So that's definitely been a lift as well And I do just want to before I jump to the next slide There's that second bullet point just note that We're really focused across our department and making sure that folks basic needs are met in terms of their ability to Just even get to program. Um, as a for instance, we start soccer practice tomorrow for the team I'm coaching spent a decent chunk of time today figuring out what size cleats we need to buy for kids Who needs shin guards? Um, how are we getting kids to and from landry park? A lot of things that I think other communities perhaps are able to take for granted a bit more Just to get to soccer practice starting There's a lot of pieces that we're kind of inter engaged with with our participants. So It's not to say that that's a bad thing It's just a layer of work that I think goes into being successful and delivering the programs we do I just wanted to highlight that Any questions on recreation? I want to say it's really cool when you do that Like you throw those gaps for the kids because Sports it's proven over and over it helps with outcomes. So yeah, no, thank you for that All right, go ahead paul So library again, uh, fairly straightforward operationally at least on the surface weekly open hours for the public A huge expansion of onsite programming in the last two years with Nate and kirsten In on staff so lots of drop-in programming and A real variety as you can see here Also a lot of work behind the scenes on collection management So kirsten in particular has done a lot of work with our youth collection I'm really trying to make sure that in our small space the books that we do have on shelves really reflect what patrons are interested in And then increasingly trying to look at opportunities for offsite programming as well. So connections with child care providers story times up at thrive People may have seen a story walk that just went up in richards park last week So really trying to get outside the walls of the library to connect with the community All right next slide I'll just crank through and stop me if you have questions Um, monoski senior center again weekly open hours here I think one thing that's always important to share is that senior center is run by one part-time employee So we do try to maximize that across the week, but I think Certainly would love to see more hours down there as we move into the future that are open to the public um, but breakfast cafe coffee chats, um, and then At barb's direction. We've actually the last few years Done fridays at the pool with the senior center, which has been great. We've had upwards of 30 seniors there every friday morning We open up for free for seniors that during that time. So it's a great opportunity for Older residents to get in the water with a cohort that is of their variety and it's been really cool Um, and then lots of partnerships too again with a part-time employee running things We do really try to figure out how to leverage other agencies programming. So age well sash hands It's like the all the all the acronyms here A lot of partnerships here in support of bringing resources for our seniors to the community I have a question on, um Meal distribution. Yep. Do you have a sense for how much of the Of those food, um, the food provided is locally grown locally sourced It's a great question. I don't um a few years back age will move to using a single provider for meals across their whole Set of programs that used to be sort of little intermittent kitchens would be running Producing and I think at that point there's a little bit more um Focus on that perhaps get just from the smaller providers. I can certainly find out. I'm not sure It's a group that's based out of rottland that produces the meals now and then they truck those up every day So, yeah, I can find out. That's a good question. All right next slide And then thrive after school. So again cluddine's technical Title is children and family programs manager as she does do work beyond thrive But the lion share of what she's working on is our thrive program, which is our licensed child care So during the school year we are open five days a week From three to five thirty for kindergarten through fifth grade And then during the summer we offer depending on the schedule About seven weeks of full day full week care for that elementary age group as well As a licensed state program families that are income eligible are able to receive state support for subsidy to cover the cost of their Child care and through us are the last three summers. We've been able to offer thrive summer for free And have seen huge increases in not only the diversity of our population that we're seeing in the summer program But also the numbers So that's something I think brand new a question you'd asked a couple weeks ago We're really looking at as we move towards next summer's planning Of 2024. How do we retain that? I think that's really a goal of ours is to figure that out because we've really seen in the summer Especially that's a huge need And then again, there's a lot of work that you know, there's the the see it touch it sort of very obvious Child care program itself and then a lot of work behind the scenes to make that go especially around Remain, you know retaining licensure with the state and making sure that our families are able to navigate that system I frequently use an example, but Early in the fall we have a mother in with two small children Not an english speaker and claudine who shared a language with this parent Spent about two and a half hours just to get the application filled out And that's just the initial application and then there's subsequent steps and It's it's kind of a bear So I will say I've been excited to see at the state level some language in the Bill going through that is really focused on simplifying that process so Yeah, any questions on thrive Is thrive after school is that the programmatic model? That's the program name. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, so it's Thrive is thrive after school and thrive summer. So it's the same program But just different times a year and different durations All right next slide Our youth interventionist, which again, I know we talked a lot about during our budget process, but And sadly are going to be having a transition in that position pretty soon Frankie's last day with us is going to be towards the end of this month, but we are About to make an offer to a really exciting candidate, um, which we're thrilled about so This position is really looking at working one-on-one with families and children that are that are struggling and Need some extra support. Um, I really like to you know, kind of frame this more as a resource navigator and Case manager. We are not social workers. This is not a trained social worker But it's somebody that's really there to help Connect families and kids with resources to help them kind of take that next step and stay on track And ray talked about during the budget season two. I think it's come up when I talk with some of The other staff like this supports the library. Yes. Yes parts in rec Yep, and I mentioned at the beginning this this is really a position that works across the department. Um, so we've Inter-departmentally done referrals from the rec department to the youth interventionist We had a kid who was struggling at soccer practice and was getting, you know aggressive with teammates and Referred that child who is now just blossomed and is really flourishing um Frankie air current youth interventionists often will go and hang in the library During the after-school hours and connect with kids there And she and Kirsten are in touch quite a bit um You know, we have a number of the kids we've served through the youth interventionist also or thrive Customers, so it really is sort of whoo. Sorry works across the uh the department Yeah All right Next slide So current plans are current progress on pieces that were in the uh policy and prior or policy Strategies of priorities to list the work plan. You can never get that right um So west ellen uh park rfp This is one that I will be honest has been slower to get going than I would have liked But we are hoping to release that in the next week or two Um, and that is to build on the parks plan and basically go from a conceptual level plan That's in our our master plan to a more Construction level plan that we could implement One funding becomes available and west ellen was identified as one of the higher need parks in the overall parks in open space master plan um And then as you probably are aware there's been an ongoing discussion related to the o'brien center And st. Stephen's both But just you know still very much in planning phase with those facilities and looking at the future there And certainly we'll keep council, you know informed as that moves along um Increased recreational program levels, um, you know, this is one that we've really Been very proud about sustaining and and keeping the wheels on I think when aster came in The answer was obviously going to be yes when we were offered this massive contract to do all this youth programming but candidly I think we're kind of Scratching our head a little bit about like how the heck are we going to do this and I think really proud to say we have We have risen to the challenge. We've seen great success in terms of our participation in our enrollment Numbers of programs and I think feel really confident about being able to sustain a lot of that Moving past s or funding. So Obviously huge appreciation to council and the community for the support in this budget cycle as well Um, as I mentioned s 56. We've been tracking that bill pretty closely. Um, and working with our local reps to you know, keep Keep an eye on what's going on and interject where we can And I'm encouraged and hopeful about that bill moving through Um, and then ongoing work throughout this year that'll I think be leading to some decision points in fiscal year 24 related to memorial park, which for folks that don't know is the natural area down behind the carpet factory off of Elm street and forestry About 16 acre park there Lots of archaeological significance really ecologically sensitive space. So Trying to figure out, um, which is called out on the park's plan How do we manage a really sensitive parcel like that moving forward with limited staff resources on the city side? So Some interesting conversations going on there around with woosky valley park district and what the future of that parcel could look like but Expect you'll see more on that moving into the next fiscal year Can you just fill me on on What management is happening now? Sure. I mean, I think like many of our parks, it's Definitely reactive management. I will be honest. I think we have pretty limited Um staffing through public works that's available for park and facility kind of management So beyond sort of the mowing of lawns and if a tree falls down kind of clearing a path We haven't been able to really bring a lot to bear to be more proactive And I think that's where the parks plan felt really important to us to say We need to we need to know what we don't know and put it on paper and start to work towards building a plan for how To implement so this was a parcel again given it's it's real sensitivity that We felt like we may need to explore some different options for management beyond our staff because we don't have that expertise in house Given it management means a lot of different things and usually there's some jargon related to your water work So is that what does that encompass? What are we thinking at when we say management? Yeah So I think in terms of the the functionality of that I think Largely unchanged in terms of maintained as a natural area still accessible via trails and and sort of pathways But not looking to build significant infrastructure there. I think the one thing that's called out in the parks plan That would be an ad is a canoe access point. That was identified as an area of like really flat Grades getting in and relatively quiet water once you're to the river So that's an area near the blue bridge that we talked about adding a canoe launch at some point But beyond that it's really just trail maintenance making sure that you know bank stabilization is happening along the trail that runs along the river Some wayfinding and signage in there And really looking at having someone that can Help us manage that more appropriately given the ecology post invasive removal Just things that again we we don't have the expertise in house for right now So I'm trying to find some partners to help I don't know if that answered That got more a little bit more detailed than I was searching for is to I think just a better a better version of what's there now and Like if it is a natural area and there's not anything significant planned for it What's the need for additional resources? So that level of detail helps get at it great. Yeah, thanks. Yeah All right, and next slide paul So looking ahead I think some things as a few of these I've mentioned but that are on our radar Moving into the next fiscal year. Certainly the O'Brien Center and Looking at the future management and potential improvements to that facility So I expect that'll be a large item on the work plan in the next year Certainly as we await, you know, some decisions around the Onuski Senior Center and St. Stephen's property Anticipating there could be some work there as well Again post-esser figuring out how do we sustain all this great growth that we've seen in a way that is Accessible for the community and is continuing to serve at need. So that's I think something we're really going to be You know putting pen to paper on and really again trying to figure out which of the programs that we are committed to keeping free Where we do need to implement fees. How are we doing that? What does that look like? So I think really a lot of ways of revisioning of the way we're delivering our rec services post-esser Continued progress on the parks and open space plan and again including management of Memorial Park And then last but not least dependent on what comes through with s56 Looking at implementing any changes and supporting any efforts there around child care in the community because that's been Again and again that comes up as a really high priority I think that's I think that's it Yeah, questions it's probably too early to Tell but I was just wondering when you talk about like the library space on how that might be reimagined Do you have anything specific or really just waiting to see how it all shakes out? Um, I guess what I would say and you can throw things at me if I say too much I mean, I think what we're we've been really committed throughout the conversations we've had in The library the expansion of the library being a top priority and as we look at any improvements or changes to the o'brien center improvements to the library are Sort of the non-negotiable top option as we look at that So I think we are ways out from knowing exactly what that looks like, but I think we really are feeling like that facility is maxed, you know, it's 1800 square feet. It's a single room And we're trying to do all the things in there and so figuring out In this sort of question mark around the o'brien center. Is there an opportunity that is You know affordable and sustainable that we can improve services Is kind of where we're at right and We've asked champlain housing trust to come in at your next meeting the May 15th one to give you an update because we're reaching the point where we need to be Letting the community know where the staff is thinking is strategic and You know before we go off and start raising money or finalize plans The Council should have a view on that in the community as well. So that'll be step one of that Thank you. Because I remember my concerns that repeated leasing to come up with the library is not having Quiet spaces for one because it's such a small space and there's so many different people doing so many different things in there But also the yeah, so that's helpful to know. Thank you. Yep. All right If there are any questions from members of the public on zoom you can use the raise hand feature or the chat Okay, excellent. Thank you. Thank you Connor you can just jump in Whenever you have a question John welcome back. Thank you Paul's running mine as well. So Thanks tonight. Sorry, I have a little bit of a cold but get through it So I'm here to give you an update on the an overview on the department of public works operations Paul you want to go to the next slide? So Here's where we live in the organizational charts. Um, you go to the next slide That's a little more detailed. So we're a pretty lean crew right now. Um, we're basically In two different divisions. So we have a what we call a streets crew which handles Streets obviously and then facilities grounds. Um, they're sort of Whatever you can imagine comes up during the day that's the crew that handles it and then we have our water resources crew that They are salary paid for by the Sewer water rate. So typically we have so we have two treatment plant operators that are down at the treatment plant And then we have two field crew That handled the water distribution network and the sewer and storm water network And then for each of those different departments, we have two division Managers which they flow in and out of the field as well. So they're kind of working superintendents Um, I did also include on this slide. Um, We have a lot of annual contractors that we utilize Given that some of the work is pretty specialized. So we have elevator contractors. We deal with annually hvc Our treatment plant has, you know, a pre sophisticated control system So that is a pretty significant chunk of our budget. So I just did want to call that out We do have a lot of support from those contracts Users and then, you know, even when, you know, if we're down staff, we will pull in additional support to do Things that we typically do in house like mowing and Snow plowing. So this winter for example, we had a contractor that did all our facility snow plowing because We just didn't have the staff to cover Doing roadway as sidewalks and handling facilities Any questions on kind of our staffing setup there? Okay, so I did an insufficient review. PM stands for preventative maintenance HVAC is heating ventilation and air conditioning And then the last line of alphabet soup there is wastewater treatment plant. I forget what SCATO stands for Uh system control blah blah blah That's based on our control network that we're on So a lot of A lot of contractors that we deal with day in day out Are we providing training support for the big CDL operator? Uh training support isn't um, so I believe it's a lot. It's pretty hard to find training centers and to get that training right now Right. So are we Trying to attract somebody that says you don't have it now, but yes, we will cover your training Yep, so our current EO one that was recently hired um We during the interview process we offered that and we've done it with two other EO ones EO ones do not have a CDL EO twos have a CDL. That's really the only significance So we will send them to to mill in as the closest training Place and the city will Pay for that training allow them to do it during work time And then we will even train them on our own equipment Um, we've had two successfully go through that and we're hoping the our current EO one who's interested will we'll be doing that next year awesome, yeah And the nice thing too is um I I don't know why the union did this But we were happy they did and the current contract that states that Once we train them and pay for that training.  So We're pretty grateful for that. So it helps us retain those employees who train up It's it's a pain for for the remaining team too, right? Like if they have to Plug the holes so it was a mutual benefit there Great, uh, paul, can you go the next one? So this is kind of a really rough list of what we do day in day out I won't obviously read through all these But I mean basically our our main goal is managing planning um repairing and maintaining city-owned infrastructure all of the city-owned uh physical assets that is Our our primary goal and If we're doing a good job, you probably don't see us. You're here us, you know, you're you're living your life and using the roads and sidewalks and Um, usually it's when we get calls about poppoles and You know, whatever issue that's when you know, that's that's when you realize we're there or your water's not working or something like that. So It's it's a very seasonal task Obviously like in the winter we're mainly plowing and then spring time it changes to you know prepping for the coming summer season so It's sort of always in flux what we're doing, but it's it's not a very seasonal cycle Any any kind of questions on day in day out operations? Okay, paul can you go to the next side? So I wanted to show this because internally what we look at for Um, when we come to you with like, hey, these are our priorities for the coming year A lot of it goes back to our master plans and obviously the the city master plan sits above all of this But then we have our own Sort of categorical master plans for transportation water sewer Um, some of those are regulatory. Some of those are just you know with our ccp part cc chinning county regional planning partner. Um Usually a grant funded exercise like the transportation master plan And then it it gets more detailed as as sort of we progressed out. So From the transportation master plan, which is kind of high level it gets into these kind of scoping studies And then it it goes even more detailed into like a project at some point So an example would be the main street project where a lot of the A lot of the to-do and priorities that are in transportation master plan are addressing issues on the main street corridor Um, and and some of that turned into what is now the main street project that started as a scoping study that's Shown there and then it eventually turned into an actual project. So that's why um Elaine mentioned like the La Fountain Dye and Street scoping study A lot of those planning exercises are really important in the beginning because it sort of sets the tone as those projects sort of become a reality, so um That's where we come up with a lot of our priorities is we'll go back to these plans look at, you know, what work needs to still be done what You know, if there's infrastructure that's really deteriorating We'll obviously put that up as as a priority Any questions on any of these kind of master plans? Oh, I do know that um The good news is we're we're sort of running out of items in our transportation master plan After main street, so that will be due for a refresh. We like to do those every five years. There's no statutory requirement on transportation master plans, but We're getting through our to-do list same thing with the water distribution master plan with the update with the Upsize water main up main street. You want to just, you know, redo the hydraulics the hydraulic model on that and do some Flow test and make sure that the current Priority list is still accurate, so we'll probably do an update on that down the road after main street And the treatment plant one was just done. Um, that's actually it's draft right now. We just need DC to sign off on it Any questions on those Paul can you go next slide Do you have the Parking study? Is that considered a study rather than a plan? It's it's a study. I left that in Eric's court. Okay All right, but it touches on transportation. So there are obviously a lot of other Smaller studies and things that kind of touch on these ones um, I Did want to share just because a lot of our work is very just physical infrastructure just a really really high level on um The condition of the city owned assets just to just to give you a really high level overview. So we have Approximately we have eight facilities nine. I guess if you count abnaki the proposed abnaki garage. Um, the colors represent a really High level what condition they're in good fair poor and that's really based on um Our capital asset needs so And and I'm talking like really like high level capital assets so roofs hvc equipment Um, those things that we have programmed into the capital budget that we know are Beyond their useful life and and need some investment So as you can kind of see the occ is is probably the worst condition. There's a lot of needs down there um a lot of the hvc equipment is Beyond its useful life emergency generators kind of beyond its useful life at We find new things that need fixed all the time down there. Unfortunately. Um, it's an old shopping center. So it's going to have issues Um, but for the most part other facilities are in Excuse me fair to good condition. I mean with With the exceptions like city hall. It's an old leaky building, but it's functional and a lot of the major assets are You know, they're they're still within their useful life Earrings. Yeah, what's it? Earrings not water lakes, right? Yeah, right for city hall. Yeah, I mean It could use a refresh in here. You know, there's Some paints and carpeting but overall it's It's functional and and we don't see A major investment needed in some of those major capital components So just a brief overview and kind of where we are Any questions on facilities? Okay, Paul next slide Excuse me, and I'm just hitting kind of the bigger infrastructure categories, you know, we obviously own a lot of There's trees. There's lights. There's a lot of other stuff that's that's not included with us Uh, transportation, there's a lot of need. Um, as you all know going through the budget process so we've got we do have a pretty large backlog of Street resurfacing that should be done to get up to sort of what A satisfactory condition of the roadway network that we own so about 2 million that we estimate that's probably conservative but That's so that would be getting our current road network Up to what's shown there is a payment condition index of 72 which is considered satisfactory That was the goal set sort of by the municipal infrastructure conditions as a Goal for the next few years. So we're as you've seen we're incrementally trying to increase that payment budget and chasing grants for You know, payment work to do that Curbing and sidewalks there's there's also a pretty Large need there the curbing is mostly that project that's over on the east side Florida Bernard Those streets On that end. There's not a lot of other bad curbing in the city. There's spot sections, but like that whole east side of id9 A lot of that curbing is There is no reveal or there's only like an inch or two. So that does need replacement Um Curbs we're going through as you know the ADA transition plan. So we've we've done a GIS inventory on where We need to do some work on Upgrading those curb ramps to make them ADA compliant Our goal would be to do that whenever we do a road resurfacing project So as we do the annual road resurfacing project to incorporate those ADA curb ramp upgrades as well and then um You may or may not know we besides the the winewski river bridge, which is um We're doing some Work on right now. You probably see we're doing some while fee trans is doing some boardings out there We also own two other roadway bridges and a ped bridge that's connected to the champ Champlain Mill The weaver street railroad bridge is Also over a hundred years old and it's it's due to get another evaluation structurally looking at If there's any improvements needed. So that will be something you've probably seen the next budget round I'd suspect that type of project would be Grant friendly and we'd have to do a lot of coordination with the railroad, but that is something that would be upcoming not too distant future Any questions on transportation items Paul can you go the next one And then last one is just our Our water resources Assets so i've i'm just showing you an example of our water distribution GS mapping we have this for all our assets So what you see there is the yellow is from our master plan data of Water means it will have to replace in the future some are near term some are longer term But overall those are the sections of water means that will have to get replaced and say The next 20 years or so or shouldn't I should say should be replaced as recommended and a little the red Exclamations are on water mean breaks over the last I think five Ten years and I think that's a 10 year cycle where we've had some breaks um on the Excuse me on the water resources side the As you know the water main distribution network is is really the main concern because A lot of the network is over 100 years old It's it's online cast iron, which means it's more fragile than A typical ductile iron or a plastic pipe that you see now Excuse me, so that's that's something we're we're trying to plan for through our capital planning Um, it's roughly 14 million total that we'll be looking at to try to replace by 2036 is the recommendation, but um, we'll just have to Keep looking at grant grant opportunities and trying to to just get this into the And then on the sanitary storm sewer side Sanitary system is we've done a lot of Video inspection of the sanitary sewer network No major concerns that we found we're currently doing storm sewer Video inspections through CCRPC grant so We've got we've completed a phase one. We're doing a phase two starting this summer with CCRPC Phase one didn't we didn't find any major issues with the network There was a couple spot repairs that came out of that work. So That's been pretty good news. And then we are what's called an ms4 Permit city. So we there we are regulated our storm water that that comes from our roads buildings City-owned buildings is regulated. So the latest permitting That came out requires that we we prepare a phosphorus control plan to reduce The amount of phosphorus that's going into lake champlain um Based on that report We have about four projects that would need to be completed by we have a deadline of 2036 The estimate for that work is about 450,000 That work is I would say very grant friendly. So we would be pursuing grants to You know complete all of those But that's um, that is ongoing work. We're The phosphorus control plan that we've drafted and submitted is still under review by dbc. So Um, we are still waiting on some feedback from them for that Any question on the water resources piece? Oh, and I did mention our treatment plan is in Pretty good shape We'll say like we've done a lot of capital improvements over the last few years. Um, There's nothing no major capital improvements that we see going forward. Um, There's some small stuff like pump replacements and things like that But overall the the treatment plans in in pretty good shape operators do a fantastic job down there. Um, We've always been well in compliance. We have A lot of we still have half our capacity flow-wise. So There's no no major issues that we see down at the treatment plant Fun fact, the water that we put into Lewinowski is cleaner than what's coming in Yeah, I mean that's upstream of it Okay, paul can you go to the next one? Um, so getting into fy 23 progress. We did touch on a lot of this at the last, um Update on the four three council. Um, I will just share A few items since then so One mainstream project. We did get the green light to go out to bid. So We are projecting to go out to bid next month. So we're we're prepping for that currently. So that's really good news um So that process would be We would expect bids back. I would say July and then you would see them probably around that time You're doing 60 days or 30?  Absolutely For the big review since it's a joint Well, do you is there any need to join the review that was the cc rpc or other partners? Well, so it will be reviewed by um Our other finance partners. So usda will be reviewing those bids dc Agency and natural resources will also be reviewing those bids because they will they will be financing a portion of it. So so that Contributed the july timeline. Yeah, they'll usually that's what happens. Unfortunately. It's like, you know, we'll get bids back But then you have to bug agencies to take your responses. Yeah It's such a simple statement john just made that we're now been given the green light to a bit go out to a bit I can't tell you how much I I literally can't because you know, I'm not doing it but there's so much back and forth involved in the funders and the Environmental review and between john and then of course right away negotiate agents before that Angela and ryan and john have been just yeah, it takes a lot of time to have gotten to this point. So Yeah, it's a it's a ton of little steps and like kudos Especially kudos to ryan our city engineer.  I mean, that's a lot of it. It's just like you just got it like constantly, you know And bugger unfortunately, some of our residents to get easements, but he's done amazing work on that. So yeah, we're excited And hopefully we'll get really good numbers too. So we've started talking to some of the local contractors And they're aware that it's it's gonna be coming out to bed. We do have some interest. So that's that's good news. Yep And then Lane mentioned the lefounde diane street scoping study that's coming up next week and the The other update would be the bridge the wienewski river bed bridge if if you travel across it today You probably saw they were doing some boring stuff there. Uh, just get some geotechnical data for the upcoming site work, so Paul's been really instrumental on Some of the public outreach discussions we've been having so that's kind of where we're at right now is just Thinking through what the public outreach is going to be for the The the concept design for the bridge and making sure we have the right stakeholders and so you'll see a lot more On that I would expect in the coming coming weeks So we it still has to get designed that's so we have to get a lot of stakeholder input Will council have a chance to See the communications plan. Yes. Yeah Yeah, it's still it's still in draft form. Um, but once that's released we can we can send that Great, um, paul, can you go the next one? FY 24, we're we're we're keeping it really simple as far as what we want to do because um There's some pretty as you know some pretty massive projects come into her way. So Uh, obviously main street Assuming we get good bit numbers that's going to be in construction. So that's that's going to be a big lift The bridge project that's that's starting to creep into concept design. Um v-trans ccrpc burlington And us are working on that I will say v-trans is kind of They're doing most of the work with their consultant. Um, and we're We're providing feedback Burlington and us are providing feedback on a lot of work. They're doing so They're leading the charge on that which is which is great. And then, um The abenaki garage, which uh, we'll be talking about later in the meeting If that if that gets into construction, um the upcoming season So, yeah, it's a big investment 37.6 million. That's assuming only the five percent Caught share of the bridge that we paid. So it's like, you know, um upwards of really 70. I think 60 or 70 million and City investment so A lot of funding coming into the city over the next few years And Besides the large projects, um wrapping up those scoping studies that are currently underway that will creep into fy 24 and then, um, as you saw in the previous mapping, um, really trying to figure out how we address Maintaining our kind of old infrastructure 100 year old infrastructure With a really small pot of community funds. It's you know, that is the challenge. So That's something obviously we'll be continuing to look at through our capital planning and grants but, um You know, it is That's going to be one of our big challenges is unfortunately a lot of this 100 year old infrastructure is now coming up to its useful life and how do we Place it before, you know, we start seeing some major Breaks and things like that come off One thing on the bridge, I Will hear repeatedly for me is that five percent Contribution from a new ski is very different from a five percent contribution from burlington So I Are just to continue to advocate for some additional Subsidy for for our population and our residents. Yep. Yep Great. Any other questions on that? I think that is it paul Any questions for members of the public As a reminder Keep this information fresh in your heads For strategic prioritization This is all the stuff staff are doing In addition to whatever we look at at that list on that Couple set of days from now Thank you Thank you We'll move on to item b also for discussion the strategic vision area goal updates Yeah, I'm going to keep it pretty simple. Um Do feel free to counsel to let staff know if you would prefer a different way that we present these We've been keeping them pretty short So the one thing I want to highlight under the housing update which Members of the public feel free to follow along the written report paul if you could drop the link in the chat I'd appreciate it So the big news in the housing front is we did hire the housing initiative director jasmine hurley She's off to a strong start as of a week ago today The position will not be doing direct service or case management Jasmine hurley instead will be consulting with stakeholders to develop a work plan To strategically advance housing needs in the city Are there any questions about the housing update general I want to contribute to it. Um through my housing roundtable group Folks from shampoam valley office of economic opportunity Are coordinating with some other partners and school district staff on doing some tenant education trainings in the city Which is one of the items in our I don't recommend it or no ideas There we go. Thank you. Yeah, no ideas. Um, and some partners are interested in Distributing landlord information as well, which I've talked to elaine about through the rental registry data um Will How will the language access plan efforts integrate into The housing work plan That is a very good question. So one of the elements in the language access Plan approach includes what Are kind of essential questions that need to be addressed And so I am I'm sure that some of them will be related to housing So we'll see as we go, but that's the that's the general answer Great. Thanks Any other questions Or public comment. All right, so For the economic vitality component and so in the future you can expect to get the housing updates from jasmine How on economic vitality I want to highlight again just one item from that report The working community challenge grant item it's been a while since I've said anything about it So mostly reading from the report which again, I believe Paul's dropped in the chat there So the goal of wanooski is working community's challenge grant project which is funded by the boston Federal reserve bank of boston That our project here locally is to build cross sectoral collaboration To enhance economic opportunity By advancing equity, especially for our new american residents The grantor allows grantees a lot of flexibility to adjust to challenges our current challenge Is the core team? Which sets the grant work plans and is supposed to be comprised of cross sector stakeholders Does not reflect the community the grant is intended to serve So I've paused spending more of the grant until we have a more representative core team Core team members with support from the boston fed have attempted to recruit a more reflective diversity of people to join it We haven't been successful so far So our next strategy to get at this challenge is to hire a short term contractor to do that With the possibility for a long term longer term arrangement with that contractor Or maybe they're not interested, but they could help us scope out what and find the next person So we've been discussing the scope and the logistics of that contract And there is a good chance that the result will be that the contractor would then be housed in another organization That has more direct relationships with the community is that this grant is intended to support However much, you know the city wants to be that great Um trusted partner. Uh, I don't know that we're there yet. So Rather than hold up Being able to spend this money strategically This was an approach that we were thinking about taking and we're still working on the details of that Are there any questions about the economic vitality update more generally or on that specific item? Uh, yeah on that specific item you A couple months ago council was told there could be an opportunity To reallocate some of those funds towards the language access plan. Has there been any request or Conversation on that. Yeah, I asked for a um, I I asked the core team to weigh in on that as a use And there wasn't consensus And that at that time the core team was like three people and again not representative And so until we have like a proper core team again, try not to spend the money Um, especially given that it's so flexible and it's supposed to be cross-sectoral I'm not sure if I Couldn't you know straight face make that case that a language access plan for the city could be good for the whole For all, you know, across sectors. I think I could but you know, we'll see so That's a that's a maybe right now Okay Any other questions or public comment? Okay, thank you. I will say that um for mont communities Vermont community foundation Who who gave us a grant to Out of which we're paying the pilot stipends for the inclusion belonging commissioners Um, they've contacted all of their grant re grantees to offer a follow-on grant And I floated this idea with them and they're amenable. So that's that would be 10,000 Which is another possible source We haven't applied yet because we're still working on the on the it's great on the uh, the scope okay Let's move on to item c the chapter 28 fees ordinance update. This is on for discussion So this is pretty straightforward I've outlined the proposed changes in the cover sheet and Provided a copy of the track changes version of the city ordinance A lot of the things that you see in here as changes are items that were discussed during the budget process This includes adding fees for passport applications and photos An addition of a processing fee for sidewalk permits because currently the city retains no money for any of the sidewalk permits within the downtown We are adding the clarification for a fee reduction for new dogs that are licensed after october 1st An increase to the rental registry fee from 100 dollars per unit to 115 dollars per unit annually We've added the language from the resolution approved by council at your may 2nd meeting exempting the abnaki tribes and bands from event and facility fees that are Related to their tribal Organization and then there are some other minor clerical updates to alleviate some confusion that's been encountered With where fees were placed in the ordinance or clarifying some shorthand that was used previously And you'll note that if you'll recall There was a revenue item for plans review. We've had very Slow conversation with the state about that. So we have not at this time added that We'll see what happens. We're going to do our best. Um, but we might come back with that So I would suggest for council to first if you have any questions or comments about the staff proposed changes We can address those if there are other Other thoughts besides that we can do that second I was I had some questions, which I think you've partially addressed Angela just introducing it With the dates around the dog licenses I'm You know, if it's still a little confusing Would it be appropriate to put the year in there? to Clarify like Like a fiscal year. Yeah the fiscal year. So I don't dog licenses are on a calendar year. Okay. Um Well the calendar year date in there. I was just wondering because some people might be like well Why would yeah, I don't know. I was just wondering if some people might try and get around Or misinterpret how It's laid out Sorry for not having specifics, but my thought was around having like 2023 in there This would apply to any year Can you make it so domestic quadruped 10 dollars per year per animal? Like can we add language here that this is per calendar year? Thomas made a similar request about the chicken permit that a lot people don't realize that's an annual fee not a one time That clarifies my confusion actually the slash is per but that's not obvious to folks reading this Okay, and and then I wonder then with october 1st saying it's prorated Because I assume that's the intent Um, so that is the way that it's outlined in state statue. I'm not certain It's not prorated based on the proportion of the year. Otherwise it'd be a much lower fee. Yeah So it's and it's only reduced for new dogs So if you had your dog and you just didn't license it until october 1st You still have to pay the full late fee It's only if you bought a new dog in like september and didn't license it until october that you get the reduced fee Okay, are the questions on proposed changes I want to note that I just happen to have a conversation of the weekend over passport photos And um at a private entity it was 18 dollars. So I think 10 is a deal What once we started offering it we're not quite there yet, right? Well, you know, I'm going to do list um, there was something later and I wanted to See if I can find it. No Uh, I had one other which was what is a recreational vehicle? RVs, um specifically campers, uh, we tend to have people who want to park them on the street Um and and store them on the city right of way Um because they are a large obstruction We require them to come in and get a permit so that we can approve their placement and know where they are Um, and it's just a nominal fee. It has been being charged The fee is on the current application for parking a recreational vehicle on the street But it had not been codified within the ordinance. So that one is an administrative cleanup. Perfect. Okay That's what I assume, but I wanted to understand building on that question, um Does that apply to boats and tractor trailer trucks? I would imagine that a tractor trailer probably boat it would depend on the size Because I've seen the truck without the trailer um and parked in some spaces In the city, um, and I other folks have had parked large boats At times On city streets Yeah, we have had people come in and get the recreational vehicle permit for a boat trailer previously And specifically it was like up on time Grove Terrace So that has happened. I've not had A tractor trailer truck Come in for that I imagine because they don't think it meets the recreational vehicle definition I think if we wanted to add something from that It's probably going to need a definition somewhere in the parking chapter. Okay Any other comments for proposed changes? For What the city for yeah, that's proposing No, all right any comments on other p parts of this ordinance I had a question which is If it can't be answered Here and now Totally understand, but as I was looking for it. I was just wondering are there Right waivers or scholarships for like some of the garden plots The garden plot fee scholarships are absolutely offered for all of the garden plots Yeah, the scholarship you um, we have an internal scholarship procedure The only limitation placed on garden plot scholarships is it's only available for the first two plots And we apply it to the two highest price plots that somebody is purchasing Gotcha. Okay. Thank you The scholarship policy is really broad like Like any program I think can can be counted Potentially we only have procedures currently for the community services department But it is intended that we could apply it to any sort of discretionary Um program that the city offers Peddlers fee Um in the past we've had people who wanted to sell things from like a cart um Peddlers and itinerant vendors or people who are mobile and will set up a temporary space to sell from I am going to admit that I my ex-husband received a peddler's permit for a hot dog cart When I first started with the city. So it's that type of thing You'll also see like ice cream trucks technically fall under the itinerant vendor permit interesting so What about food like with food trucks? So obviously there's a cart component but like a food truck component depending on if they had a restaurant location in the city But yes, they would technically fall under that especially if they were coming in from another location intriguing That's fun antiquated language. Oh peddler. Yeah So I wanted to throw out a suggestion on the building permit and commercial inspection fees So they The fee itself goes up with the cost of construction, right? So up to $15,000 cost of construction $75 fee $1501 to $30,000 hundred dollar fee, etc But when you do the math on that the percentage of construction cost is going down So like $75 is half a percent of 15,000 Uh, the hundred dollar fee is a third of a percent of 30,000 Up to um The $175,000 $250 permit fee Is less than like 0.2 of a percent I Feel like there's an opportunity here for one I don't think it should vary like that right like if the fee is half a percent of the max construction cost It should at least be steady as you go up the cost But I think there's also an opportunity here To actually reverse that and do a small small increase as you go up in cost Like we've had discussions before about the impacts of development on the community and Like an impact fee to gain more revenue to offset that growth Which was Pretty complex discussion we were having Seems like there's an easier opportunity here with these permitting fees To sort of capture some of that or at a minimum like equalize the way that the the so you're not like getting a deal as you build larger I'm curious if this is Something that has been considered under staff or where these numbers came to Also her counsel feel about that. So john, I'm gonna put you on the spot I don't know if you had a chance to look at an email that angela sent you this morning responding to this idea um, so He had she had pointed out that And I I didn't have time to look at my own copy, but so Her recollections you're anticipating changing the commercial inspection fees in a way Where the fee was based on the level of risk rather than square footage If that's true, then maybe we'd want to hold off so that there's not change fatigue. We can do it Consider them at the same time. John. Is this ringing a bell? Are you there? Yes, so Thanks for bringing me in on the conversation A couple things come to mind with this is on the commercial inspections currently it's done on a square footage basis Um, and we've been challenged by some of the business owners of What that is? How did we come to those? amounts So we've done some extensive research of Before we are contemplating changing the fees Of what we could apply to that That would give us a basis to answer the questions of a business And through NFPA they have an appendix in which you can apply risk factors So it's the type of business is there has there's materials the occupant load That sort of thing that that really matched up to The square footage it would essentially it matches up But it would replace that square footage and give us A piece to be able to defend what we're we're having a having a good conversation With the businesses Instead of just a what appears to be an arbitrary Square footage amount. So I'll stop there for just a second That's that was my goal Of kind of restructuring their commercial fees As they existed does that make sense to counsel? It does Yeah for commercial inspections. Yep As far as the plan review the manager is correct If we're granted the permission to do plan review There will need to be some side-by-side comparisons And some fee structures Created for us to do the plan review So for everyone so everyone understands currently if you're going to build something in Manuski that that's More than a single family home. It's a public building Or you're going to renovate such you have to go get state permits and there's a there's a review done at the state and they charge a fee per square foot Or valuation per thousand So for granted that that will replace Or integrate in some ways With our current building permits They those will kind of merge plan review in In building permits. So we will in some instances see increases in some instances see some decreases You know, we are estimating conservatively estimating plans review For budgeting purposes. We did forty thousand dollars worth of revenue. I believe Angela that's correct is what we have created You know the last five year average from the state is eighty five thousand That that people have already paid the state. They're already paying the state. So So I think there is reason to pause and give us A chance to understand if we're going to get if we're going to be awarded the mo you I don't think it's a matter if we're awarded it It's just them the question I have is how much work we're going to have to do with the state to to be awarded it You know, I've made a case for a new ski that You know, we know when you ski I've been pretty straightforward to the state. I feel we can do a better job More custom, you know, better customer service Um, it further supports our community risk reduction efforts to bring plans review to when you ski And be doing it keep that revenue in the city Allow us to work close close or with our developers So I would ask that you just pause. I think it's a good question, but let's pause I suspect in the next week or two. It will be much clearer for us of what the mo you Could possibly look like Thank you. That makes sense I would not ask to advance any change discussion until you get that information Um, I have a question about whether or not There's a separate, um like enforcement fee pulling Are you talking about like code enforcement? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So john can talk about like reinspection if that's related. Yeah, so it's part of our ordinance update is um You know, there are provisions in the ordinance that allows us to So say we go do an inspection You know, we always work with people. It's kind of a freebie if you will for us to go Back and and make sure Things are corrected. That's part of the fees they pay. I mean at the end of the day We won't we just want to correct it for the residents. You know, we want that life safety health piece Um, but we are experiencing staff experience that today You know Where there's a scheduled inspection And we get there and the property owner hasn't done what he or she needs to do So in this case two staff members It was on our schedule and they planned it. They got in the vehicle. They went there Knocked on a door And the tenant was Was like, uh, this inspection is not till tomorrow And our staff have had that conversation with the property owner because we had it on court tomorrow And the property owner was very adamant that it was today. Um, so in that instance, we should be able to bill You know bill for that now it's costing the city, you know, two staff members Plus a vehicle And we're missing, you know doing another inspection. Um, so And more so for the non-compliance, you know, we got we got people who were making repeat trips back three or four or five times There is a provision in the fees chapter that allows for a billing of Re-inspection this has typically only been done in egregious cases where we're having to return multiple times I can think of a few different properties where Re-inspection has been billed 300 main was one But it's not often done Yeah, so the answer I think to my question is there's a separate section In the ordinance that covers like enforcement fees who wouldn't be in this Yeah, it's it's being handled in the update with the in the housing public billing registry chapter Okay, so not under chapter 28 Uh, I guess it's correct. Um, and in terms of enforcement if you're talking about somebody who like leaves refuse on the side of the road Those are um in fines those are not fees that we charge somebody could be fine for violating code That's a fine amount. Yeah, that's not a fee For you make me feel like I didn't need to For you make me feel like I didn't need to say all that Well, I was very insightful. Um, and I I Definitely appreciate that I always appreciate the depth of content. So thank you Um, but I wanted to ask specifically if in this section we would cover something like fine for a dog bite It's not fee. It's fine. Yeah, that's something. Yes. That's right. Well, we when we get to look at the fine chapter Uh, it hasn't been up in some time. Okay In many cases the fines are set by set by state statute Um, they have to be you won't see those in the city ordinance fee chapter Um, you know a civil ticket when we issue that that that amount is set by Um, first second third of offense through state statute That's not something the city can Can alter. Okay Very helpful. I will share, uh Councilor Renner shared some comments in advance, which everyone is welcome to do should they have to miss a meeting Suggesting considering a small late fee at the library and increases to non-residential pool rates For voting on it Oh, we don't we don't need to vote on that. I'm just saying if you want to discuss it further we could But if no one else is interested in those I'm just bringing forth his suggestions I'm very much opposed to thinking about library fees because those always impact our lowest income folks who need the library the most And we do charge people who do lose library books They have to pay a restock fee to replace the book in circulation if it just is completely missing good Um councilor renner specify which non-resident pool fees because there's all of them He suggested raising all of the non-residential. Did he specify by how much? Mm-hmm family season 180 adult season 85 Youth season 60 adult and youth day 10 I'd be willing to consider some non-resident increases Um for family. I I don't agree with increasing it that much I was going to say those amounts seem a little significant given the larger economic scope that a lot of families are facing Um, I think that folks coming from out of town to use our resources I think it's fair to ask a little bit more from them Because they may not be contributing to the city in other ways, but I think that those are a little steep I was thinking more like 10 or 15 percent more than what residents pay versus like So just to that point. So we do have a markup on non-resident rates already. Um, it's about 25 percent above the Current I think 20 or 25 percent. I don't have it right in front of me But it's consistent across I think one thing in considering that now that would be tricky Is that we've already begun past sales for this year. So anything that we consider I would recommend we look at that for next season at this point because it would be really tricky to go back Um, when we've already sold you know over 200 passes for this year Um, it is something we talked about before this budget cycle and I think given that We're just two years in really with this pool. I think we wanted to give it one more year to see what the patterns looked like You know two points easy to make a line between two points I think once you've got three data points, you can really start to see what the pattern looks like So I think we wanted to give it one more season at the current rates and then assess after the season and see where things are at And one thing I'd just like to share is the pool is one place where non residents cannot receive scholarships for passes We do allow non residents to apply for scholarships for any other programming But pool passes is the one place where it is not allowed. It is only when new ski residents who can receive scholarship for a pool pass I support your inclination to hold off discussion You sold me out the three data points Are there comments and are there any other items in this These chapter Okay Seems like we're I'm not hearing a lot of concerns. So this could come back for approval for the staff proposed changes Yeah All right. Thank you So I believe somebody needs to introduce this and you need to set a public hearing date Oh dear. I did not uh, born it that way. Well, we will next month um I still I'll ask you to do it though because so that we can have the fees in time for July 1 so I move to bring forward the proposed Fee changes for public hearing The next council will as administrators procedures allow at the next soonest opportunity second Is that a sufficient motion? Um, I guess you could technically do it on Saturday I really don't want to add anything to that agenda. Yeah, I mean you could just don't think we need to You could set the hearing on Saturday because the warning let's just make sure we've got our ducks in a row with public noticing exactly So we'll we'll warn that agenda item for the retreat, but all it is is you're going to set the hearing date. Okay Do you want to vote now? Uh, yes to the introduction. Okay. There was a motion by Brandon. Did you second it Charlie? Did yes All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. The motion carries Thank you. Okay Let's move on to item d the q3 treasurer's financial reports Unfortunately, john fennie was unable to join us tonight. Uh, he had to travel unexpectedly He has provided you a memo Where he's analyzed the q3 projections that were provided to him And happy to answer any questions that you might have from that information Thank you, angela I will say going back at the q2 and q1s things are tracking. I didn't see anything particularly surprising in this report Do folks have questions? Appreciate the detail Any public comment or questions? Okay Uh Those all for discussion Let's move on to item e the downtown bonuski memorandum of understanding so This memorandum of understanding These are as you know from other examples these tend to be operational We don't necessarily look at them on an annual basis Unless there's a potential financial change or policy shift similar to how we address like the MOU for how we work with the school So this document guides kind of our expectations from downtown bonuski and their expectations from us Um as an example Last year there was uh some negotiation to take some items that are previous Community and economic development officer position No longer have that was vacant Um and move some of those responsibilities to downtown bonuski and so And to codify the juneteenth and pride events and so Worked with the executive director there to make changes There has also been Over the course of the last year expressed interest in a financial change to the agreement Which is why I asked to bring the MOU back to council Um we also received a copy So we can discuss this proposed financial change, but if there are other Points of interest in the MOU that anyone wants to discuss we can do that as well And so what had been suggested previously was to add a cap So Maybe two budgets ago We decided to allocate five percent of the local options tax that we collect To downtown bonuski to support their operations There's been conversation since then about potentially putting a cap on that the rationale being That dollar amount could increase significantly without any additional services or expectations from the organization And so a cap that would have to come back to negotiation would be a prompt to make sure that we have that discussion Um, I also would point out that local options tax So one of the reasons that we wanted to use some of that money to fund the organization is because it's supporting businesses who Create that tax the local options tax is also collected from online sales And the bills that we pay as residents. So there's It doesn't all directly come from On the ground businesses here I also want to add to the historical context here that pre-pandemic The organization was planning to incorporate some kind of membership fee structure for businesses as a revenue source as other organizations of this nature do And that I haven't heard happen I haven't heard that been discussed since then And so I think this is also this conversation also could prompt What is the thinking on that front? So with that context, I know we have some folks from the organization here But I would just pause for Comments and questions from city council So I I guess I want to start with some context and framing background on It's called an MOU, but it feels like a contract and it feels like it Should be discussed something where it would be It places the city at a disadvantage to discuss contract negotiations and public session So it'd be great to Understand why this is not treated that way I don't know how the state statute directs it because we have previously We have never taken an MOU into executive session to my knowledge It didn't occur to me Well, how about we start with why is it treated as an MOU and not as a contract? Well, so I think of MOUs as as A discussion between more or less equal partners So they're an independent organization Even though we have to have one in order to have a downtown designation So it's not it's sort of in between to me A contract is where we could pick and choose among Presumably several service providers obviously brahman actually that's not always true But that's the expectation whereas this is That that's not the case here. We don't we can't pick and choose for these particular services So they they have They have the ability to negotiate with us because we don't have anyone else I don't know if that that's necessarily a technical answer angel. Do you have any thoughts you'd add to that? I think because it's not just us paying them for services There is a little bit of mutual exchange. They have expectations of the city in addition to us having expectations of them It's not just us paying them to do a specific set of things. It's a little amorphous Um, and that's why it's a memorandum of understanding rather than a specific contract to provide service And I believe meredith is here and has her hand up and may have additional Insight oh you've already pulled her over excellent Um, yeah, so I just wanted to give a little bit of context to that So, um, I do believe you could change it to a contract, but that would That would set into motion other changes. So, um, I wasn't present the when the mo you was drafted But I was present when it was enacted for the very first time and the staff time and Time of other experts in the state that was put behind this was significant So I do know that it was incredibly softly designed and executed And we have continued to utilize it as an mo you because there haven't been significant changes into how We operate and with the city I think barring the pandemic Maybe things would have changed at some point, but we're trying to give everyone a little bit of grace and try to actually Maximize this relationship Um, I think there's incredible benefits to to not having it be a contract I think the city would see a decrease In services if it became a contract I'm just going to be honest with you as I'm not currently employed by the organization I'm a volunteer seeking as a former executive director Um, I just know that the the thoughtfulness and the um, legalese and the financial Um decisions behind an mo you versus contract were very very Um intentional And so I think it's worth just if that's something that the council and the city staff really strongly believe in exploring I think it could be explored But my understanding of the differences is that this is a much better situation for the city and for the organization Um And it's my understanding that um initial that I mean this hasn't been enacted until this wasn't enacted until 2019 So previously funding and other relationships were there without anything in writing Um, and there is also there have been many discussions over the years about and I believe at one point The city did hold the downtown designation and the downtown organization And it was very again a lot of staff a lot of expertise on the state Level coming in and deciding that it was the best decision to separate that organization from the city There are um across the country downtown orgs that sit within their municipality And in that case they have the municipality has full oversight and control over Everything that the organization does And in some cases there are contracts in place for specific things like you will run this street fair or you will run these specific things We have looked at not only state examples, but national examples of how other downtown organizations operate within a municipality So it's my understanding based on that research and based on you know The four years that this has been in place that the memorandum of understanding is the best situation for both parties But there's certainly up for discussion. I mean this is not something that is in place forever and We were actually, you know, we've been given the option Over the years to not bring this to council and have it be public discussion I mean not that it wouldn't you could still discuss at any time obviously And have it be kind of an administrative process But I think it's incredibly important to have it be brought to council as discussion and talked about So so that's kind of where we're a little bit more of that context of the mou is in place But I think that the the funding that's That's there is also It's hard. It's very difficult to explain. It's almost like a moving target. I think angel use the word amorphous and that is such a lovely phrase because I get really fearful of looking at and even when when mayor lot said some of the tasks of The economic development officer were put into the mou That rose raised a red flag for me because they were already there We just rearranged the wording a little bit. So we were already doing that work in conjunction But now we're the only people doing that work. So again, there wasn't that expectation of Your you know your commission of the city you're part of the municipality and therefore you and you're you know We're under contract. So you're providing x y and z. This is a give and take. This is a we provide We love being super super aligned on the economic vitality master plan And super aligned with what city council is looking at and also what city staff members are looking at So again, I would personally highly recommend keeping it as an mou versus moving it to contract But it certainly is an you know an option And there's also a great thing about the mou is that if there's if there's a reason And I don't know what the reason is that um councilor oblique was bringing that up But if there's a reason like well, I want it to be a contract so that we can have More financial statements or we can have more frequent reports or we can have I don't know what it would be That could also be put into an mou. So if there are needs that the council has Those things could be put into the mou. They just aren't there right now I could say more, but I'm gonna stop there. That's really helpful. Meredith. Thank you Yeah, I think for me, I'd like to see just uh a little bit more transparency and like you were saying Meredith about like, uh, just access to Where exactly that 5% is going every year? We see it in the form of the events that uh downtown hosts, but um Just as a resident and a taxpayer and a counselor, I think that that would be helpful. I think, you know Typically more transparency is better in some cases, especially around money and spending So that's my two cents on it There is a Memorand into the mou. So that is something that you can already get into the current language And I'll be honest with the local option tax, you know, yes to christians To mayor lot's point that it isn't it is like you buy something on amazon I think you can it counts as a local option tax. I think Or if you I don't know what the exact rules are But ultimately it's five at this point It's five percent and so when we originally came to council Whatever my number of years ago. So just to give you some context too about we have received I believe Angela you can correct me if I'm wrong. I think we've received two Or maybe three local option tax payments so far. So we Is that is that right Angela? It's just two. Yeah, this is the third fiscal year where it's been in place Yeah, so we've received two of them. So we've received Half a year's worth of five percent local option tax so far. So so we're not very far into this to be honest But we've already seen an incredible help with the sustainability with having matching opportunities and things like that So we would like to keep it at five percent But we understand that there is if five percent of what it is now Is a lot different than five percent of what it could be later So I fully understand that that discussion is very important But just knowing that we haven't even had a full year under our belt of seeing how this funding kind of hits our org and so, you know sustainability and Looking ahead to you know, what we want to do in terms of not just events and not just Engaging with the community but advocacy and getting deeper into Expanding staff and things like that. We can't do any of that if our hands are tied behind our backs So so I do think that this was in again, I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but in my understand Have I've been talking this whole time on mute?  Um So many things you said that you can't do you the same amount of work with your hands tied behind your back Perfect. Thank you. Um, so I was gonna say it my understanding and I don't want to put words in the previous economic Community economic development officer's mouth, but it's my recollection that we actually were going to ask for much more a much higher percentage and Maybe 10 percent or something like that and then we knocked it down to Seven and a half percent and then council ultimately decided to go with five percent for the first year So we can look back at minutes and see what that exact discussion was But that's kind of what the discussion was that it was at hand It wasn't whether this should happen It was like wow, this you know, this is one of those revenue sources that makes sense in terms of it's a local option tax It's an additional one percent tax on service and fees. It's not a tax that is on it's not a property tax It's not coming from those other pools This is a local option tax and it is a it's a great boon for the city um, and so five percent of that made a lot of sense in terms of a An area to pull from year over year a line item, let's say For the organization where it would make sense for the work and for that mo you to exist But I totally understand so we would probably be asking for that percentage to go up. I'll be honest with you So if there is a cap discussion, you know, I think there should also be a percentage discussion So because the original ask was I believe seven and a half percent It might have been seven or eight. I can't remember exactly. I'll have to look Feels like a million years ago And it was brought to five which was something that this the council at that time was more comfortable with At this point, I think you know the the conversation What my expectation of the conversation would be that it would be around Should we cap the the dollar amount? Should we cap the percentage? Because again, I have I have a feeling that this is going to continue to come up So anything that you you know that this council wants to do with in conjunction with city staff and certainly will you know participate My recommendation would be to discuss it around both percentage cap and dollar cap Because I would imagine that we could we could also come to council and ask for a higher percentage too And so maybe that's where you know, it's a it's a I don't know what the math would how the math would math But I think it would be interesting to have that discussion about Is it Only ever going to be five percent, but then there's a cost cap in there Or is it a cost cap within five percent? But then we could come back and ask for with various, you know data to back it up Six or seven percent and then that would be a reopen of that discussion about a cost cap at those percentages Meredith that tracks with my memory Okay, good. I appreciate that because I yeah feels like it was 10 years ago I think I did not realize you only had six months of of fees so far. Um, yeah Yeah, I mean these things move slowly you guys know It might be interesting to You know as charlie suggested add Into the mo u reporting a financial component And then when melissa comes back for the six month report out And there is more data on the financial side and how much local options tax you're receiving expenses To revisit this discussion then yep so I just I have some frustration with this agenda item because we have a single paragraph to it We didn't have the mo u included as a link counselors didn't have Necessarily that much ability to review the mo u prior to this meeting. We don't have a context for impact Services other than our own experience. There's no report included in this We don't have any financial points of reference year over year We only have this one mo u with this one paragraph So it feels like a disadvantage to have this discussion without really any Compiled data or documentation to refer back to That's fair. I mean we had the report of impact in our last meeting agenda It was a miss that the mo u wasn't attached initially and then was shared later on with us And as we just discussed we don't have that financial data And so we could at a future time, but I feel like angela writes the checks She would have had the ability to report or share A cover letter or something what the local options payments to date are They're about $12,500 As well as how much we've contributed in the past. That's all information that we already have somewhere So just it just feels my understanding on this item was that it was to get the idea out there And then so well as we were heading into the discussion then we could share More information for the decision I again Well, yeah, there's the operational piece that I was trying to keep out of the council level But anyway, that's some of the background as to how this engine item came to be the way it was Yeah, and I guess usually it just goes discussion meeting approval meeting and usually not discussion discussion approval so kind of preemptively being prepared for Here's our chance to discuss the next meeting we approve We don't have I feel Like I don't have enough information to even make an informed decision on Like I don't have a particular position because I don't have enough information So correct me if I wrong that you guys don't have a copy of the mo you that's been executed We have a copy It was mailed or emailed earlier today Okay So that has been in place or this is the okay. This is the That's the mo you that's been in place And signed last year. I believe right it was not conveniently included in the agenda links. Okay. Okay. So it wasn't linked in Okay, okay. Just just clarifying that point. It's local option tax. This isn't something that Or I guess I'm trying to remember certain pages within our budget You know community partners was this thought of within our f y 24 budget or because it's local option tax We budgeted four five percent of 500 000 to go to downtown monoski in the f y 24 budget okay, and Can you tell me sorry the exact number like the estimated number that would be Not money So if we take the current year Actuals with last year's estimated We're maybe going to be on track for 500 this year. So it's A prox, you know, that's a safe guess for next year It's approximately 25 000 that's in the general fund budget to go to downtown monoski from local options tax In addition, we pay 12 500 dollars from our parking meter fund And we pay all of the sidewalk fees That are paid by downtown businesses which are anywhere between six and eight thousand depending on which businesses obtain sidewalk permits That's helpful. And again to give context to those line items those budget line items were put in Many many years ago to like to say like this is directly related to the work of the downtown There needs to be some sort of municipal downtown connection So those two budget items have been in place for Many years and she'll look and tell you the exact number of years Long before my time and the local option tax discussion pretty much started right away when I started just thinking There's no there's not sustainability for this or we've had general fund balance requests I mean there was a fund balance request to hire an executive director That was not sustainable that didn't seem like a good use of everyone's time So this was the alternative again. This is not forever But it is a conversation about the sustainability of a downtown or that was you know going to fold And going to cause a lot more headaches And so, you know, we're just at the point where you know, I appreciate the you know The visibility of the events and things like that But those events are typically paid for by sponsor dollars. They're not we don't touch the city dollars for those and we pretty much break even city dollars go towards lots of other things that were unable to use other grant funding or other much more restricted funding for Operations administration communication. I mean think about over the pandemic. There was You know two three four five emails a week that going going out, you know hitting boots on the ground that kind of stuff So those are the that's the invisible work and then that's the unrestricted funding that goes to that But again, those streams of funding sidewalks parking and local option tax all were discussed very intentionally by many people past and present to to make sense for The sustainability of the organization the sustainability of the relationship And to not have it be brought up, you know a lot where it's like, oh gosh, like this this can't happen this year If the local option tax doesn't come through if something changes and that stream, you know cuts off We don't get any money. Um, so we are you know, our funding is based on the success of that Our funding is based on the success of parking where our big funding is based on the success of sidewalk use So all of those things make sense in terms of the direct relationship to our work for economic vitality But they also have limits already So just kind of wanted to put that idea out there that they're not, you know This is part of a, you know, general fund request that's going to be in the budget forever And you know, these are all things that are tied to other activity Thanks marita So it's roughly 40 to 45,000 coming from Like city I'll use code sources my feeling is I can't more transparency is always good and Maybe if there is this increased slash sustained um Finance going in just having that would be helpful again thinking just Brin said to kind of have all those pieces even like thinking about when the next budget season comes around stuff like that just Having that awareness But I also am thinking especially while we don't have anyone in this like the CEDO position And meredith as you said like weren't taking anything over but in a lot of cases in some cases you are are downtown manuski is The only one doing some of this economic vitality stuff I can I really feel like there is that That need and in the grander grand scheme of things that isn't a whole lot of money To go towards what I see is the benefit for the city and our residents So I think I'm holding those two things of like I see a lot of benefit but I also Where the money is going however, I'd love the action like the transparency to connect those dots I'm confirmed So could we give staff direction to negotiate some financial data into the regular reporting? Is that what I'm hearing from you? Yeah, I think that's that's what I would put forward Talking about the exact percentage I'm not sure I'm I'm open If others would want to do that Meredith your hand is raised again Thank you. Sorry just to Aurora's point I wanted to also just mention again this like amorphous word Because it does get and the reason why I may not be as clear when I say like we are doing the work of Part of the work of that that was in the CEDO It's part of that is because I don't want to tread on a contract term I don't want to tread on we do this and we get paid this because that is a contract so I'm I'm I hesitate to be very strong in my wording about those things But yes, we were doing that work and now we're the only people doing that work and not only that we've ramped that up significantly in the past year Even just requests from city staff From various departments like we don't have anyone that can help you here's Meredith. So I think I I hesitate in a public place like this especially talking about an mo you that's not a contract to say Yes, we're doing that work But yeah, I just wanted to clarify that yes we when I say we aren't doing that work It's only because I don't want to say that we're under contract to complete those tasks It's it's in the mo you and we do fulfill those But it's just tricky the wording Had a chance to Look at Again, if we just have some estimates around local options tax going forward or again if it's just to So we were attempting to answer that before I thought angel and me just now about The 500,000. Yeah. Yeah, that's still a safe estimate for f by 24. Okay You don't have any estimates further out than that It's too risky. No, because we've only got two quarters of this year. So So if you had the current two quarter actuals plus the Equivalent two quarters from last year Then it's it's like 481,000 so Maybe we'll hit five if this is presumably a slightly better year than last year with more opening So again, if it's 500, then the estimate that we use in the budget is a safe number to estimate for f by 24 okay, so I think what I'm trying to get at is The recent history of local options tax is not reliable enough to forecast forward. Is that Well, so There were some COVID years in there that make it hard to estimate and there's been changes downtown So we haven't done the full We haven't like looked at the whole history and then looked at all of the conditions of those years no, okay So let's see if we can look at that data if we Have a future discussion around the funding structure So the the $500,000 number that is in our budget is my best estimate based on the historical performance of the local options tax I I'm not quite sure I can give you all of the data of what we've collected so far But I'm not going to be able to come up with a better estimate than that at this point Yeah, I appreciate I appreciate that. Thank you Thanks for clarifying Angela Any other questions or comments So is there more financial data you would want for a potential cap discussion It would be nice to have it all in one place Have what have essentially the summary of allocated Funds for downtown Manuski in a cover letter Written down compiled into one place Sure. What was agreed when You know, was it And You know since then two payments of local options tax what amounts which Having it in one place for a point of reference not just for council, but for residents would be nice Gotcha. Okay. So the information you heard today Yes, but actually written down Yes And I think what we're asking for potentially added into the MOU is that the reporting that we receive from downtown Manuski includes like their expenditures So we see where the money is going itemization would be helpful for sure like In that specifics like we bought 20 balloons or whatever, but like, yeah, I think that would be really helpful knowing What dollars we're set aside for what and really ended up going It's probably mostly salary But other items, yeah, but just having that out there. I think is sort of the that's Yeah, that's my end goal. Like this is just to Be able to look at it and so everybody else getting to and like If it's appropriate sponsorship dollars so we can see how much they're leveraging other funds Yeah, I think we're approaching this as a partnership. We just want more clarity and transparency Of what the funds are be utilized for now for the entire organization There's a greater ask. So what is how does that compare to the current expenditures? I mean, it just feels like a reasonable ask Yeah, just to set Some expectations. I'll be curious to see what the new executive director is comfortable with There is a level of reporting that becomes quite onerous for a small nonprofit But also, you know, it's not unheard of to provide financial statements to to To funders so I don't see why would be anything more than what the board would be getting anyway Oh, Melissa's here I am here. I've been listening. Thank you so much for allowing me to be part of this conversation Yeah finances are My first and go to was raised by a CPA So I will be as transparent as you want all of the time. Um, I Not that money drives everything, but I think that it really drives smart decisions on how we're going to Figure out what our programming is and understanding who our sponsors are and what they're going to leverage for community partnership There's so much tied to the green paper. It's not just a profit and loss statement, which I'm always happy to provide At any given point in time, but there's just a lot of nuances that go into the financing side of things and You know, you've got federal grant money. You've got state grant money. You've got municipality money There's and you've got obviously the local option tax. There's there's so much and sponsorship There's so much that goes into it. Um, and yeah finances in my blood. So you want to know about money You're going to know about money I guess that's my two cents and I really appreciate everything Meredith said I'm learning so much tonight from all of you Thank you so much for giving so much space and time to your agenda for this discussion It's really like helping with my onboarding so much. Um, and I'll stop talking now Thank you, Melissa Any other questions or comment? Let us move to item f the arbor day proclamation So we annually proclaim May 5th as arbor day in the city of Winnieski Our tree committee member James Duncan submitted this Proclamation and is working to organize an event, but no details are available yet This is the standard arbor day proclamation that we receive from The Arbor Day Foundation And also I think supports our tree city usa designation Any questions or comments? Any public comment? Okay, do I have a motion to approve Me signing the arbor day proclamation So moved Second Motion by Aurora second by Charlie all those in favor. Please say aye. Aye Motion carries. Thank you I'm gonna call a five minute recess before we start the next item Um I've got 814 we'll reconvene at 819 Yeah, I will reconvene us. We are on item g Muskie falls east development lot 7d status update. John. Are you introducing? Yes, please So good evening, um, I'm just going to intro this and then we'll bring in bill If he's Yeah Oh and Doug great. So we just wanted to give you sort of a status update on the project So we wanted bill the duck bill and duck to come in and just run through What's been going on? Since our last meeting On the development project. Oh, yeah, bill. Oh, there you are. Welcome bill. Welcome, Doug You get a little more volume in bill. Can you say something? Sure Yeah, we're gonna get the get the volume turned up real quick Okay Could you speak again, please bill You are I'm here. I hope everybody's doing well That's better. It's better. Okay. That's good. Okay. Welcome. We are here here for your update So John, are you providing an update or an introduction? I didn't maybe I missed that part Yep, so I just introduced you and Doug so if you want to just Run through kind of an update since the last time we met Um, I believe that was December 5th When we we chatted with the council just while we How we are status wise where we're at with this project So I'll let bill speak about the garage, but I'll give you a quick summary and update on the hotel As many of you know, uh, Mary Maryott did approve and grant us A franchise for a Maryott hotel that happened a few months ago Since then we've been working through the Maryott process And we recently they have approved our branding um proposal material for the project And as I think last week Mary just recently approved our phase one architectural Review so we're making good progress on the hotel and working with the Maryott team and Um, I'll let bill speak to you about our update on the garage Thanks, Doug I think that uh, you know John by all means if you hear anything that sounds askew do you let me know But we we're in front of you for some time and you all most of you remember who were there In december talking about the need for some additional funding for the project under certain circumstances We you know, unfortunately since that time we're not able to immediately Take the plans that had been developed And find a path forward to construct them, you know for that revised budget And so I think the overall summary here is that netty's continuing to work with due and with the city to sort out Hopefully assume a path forward To to to build a garage, you know for this revised budget, which has been kind of our goal You know the challenges I would say are twofold You know one is that the design incorporated a lot of A lot of concrete site work at a time when there's a shortage of those particular items and we you know We're certainly expecting to have Some challenges finding warm bodies to do the work that we needed, but it's been more challenging than we Expected in the sense that the costs are going up faster than the grants that we're painting To help defray construction costs And you know, we we first suggested this update to you To staff a few weeks ago. We were hopeful we'd be in front of you tonight More of an actionable plan moving forward, you know at this point there are bids due tomorrow To do on site and concrete for the sort of latest Concept of how this garage could get built and you know, we are hopeful that by next week we'll be reviewing with john And staff, you know those revised ideas that we can bring them to you in the next meeting You know with dues participation So that we can talk about more meaningfully about schedule and you know, what gap is remaining as there is any Obviously, we wouldn't still be working on the housing and hotel components if we didn't think we could get there But I am disappointed to not have a more concrete plan for you tonight versus two weeks from now So you bill you're expecting bids tomorrow We are for the current design We are expecting some revised site bids tomorrow and that will help us to understand You know whether what we've done is looked at some alternative ways Of retaining the earth and the project as you know, the things built into a hill There are several different ways we can go about providing basically retaining the earth so you have a A site to work within and we've looked at an alternative permanent supportive excavation program Which we worked through with john And staff and sort of three weeks ago put out to bid Read half weeks ago And we had originally hoped to have those bids in hand last week but In order to get additional interest The contractor agreed to extend the date from last week into this week So hopefully we'll have a couple of new Site in pile Numbers tomorrow and that'll tell us whether this this direction that we're looking at is Is so To be clear that the challenge of having it's the cost Or just the access to a construction company The the challenge that we're having is with cost, you know, the reality is that the reality is that In the last round of Pricing that we did we had only one Competitive response and a couple of trades and in those particular areas the contractors were not Ultra comfortable with the scope of work that they were being given And so we were concerned that anytime you only have one Uh Bitter and you can hide obviously you're you're above the budget you want to look at ways to try to encourage additional participation So Originally this garage was designed as a as a steel frame with concrete poured concrete decks In the midst of the pandemic when Steel prices were sort of soaring out of control. There were some changes made to the design to encourage additional concrete use Uh Thinking that that would be a benefit. It was a benefit our engineer had found to be helpful in some other projects um And now effectively we're sort of looking at the possibility of returning to a steel structure because steel prices have moderated on the one hand And on the other hand, uh, the availability of concrete labor in particular has been a real challenge to to source just a lot of projects looking for Uh a home right now and and we find that the concrete in particular can be quite aggressive in their pricing Okay, thanks for adding that Sorry to be confusing And does the this timing It's like if you're you're seeing bids with them next week And it's coming to you. Yeah, so my my our our instruction to do has been to uh provide Uh Their planning or they'll be ready to come back to you with this next meeting or a more concrete report Of what the impact of this rebid has been on our pricing and on direction on the timing schedule of what they can do To move forward. So John and I had identified kind of a list of items we would want to bring to you I should say john's identified and handed to us a list of things that they want to see To bring to you as a full report and we're not able to get that to you for this meeting So the challenge is now and I I can't tell you How big of a challenge unfortunately, but the challenge now is that we've already gotten an extension on the commitment letter from the finance from the Winning well From the from the bidder that was selected for financing So they didn't raise any stink about extending it that deadline is made 12th, which is before your next meeting Now they might be willing to extend it again, however Some of the you know, these are very specific banks that are failing But you never know what's going to happen apparently because nobody predicted those three were going to go So there's always a risk that there's just something that might shake them up Until we sign they're not obligated So if we could if if something changes in the market, but it is and again, I have no idea how Likely this is but there is always a risk that we just lose out on this particular proposal for financing Um, I mean technically they could they could withdraw tomorrow or or tonight Until we sign it's not they're not committed So that's the that's an uncertainty that we've got right now So that the related I guess the related update I'd provide to that is we are fortunate to be in a financial climate Outward standing the failure of a couple of western banks that You know the general climate overall that we're seeing has been relatively positive in the banking market the last several weeks I mean I dug and speak Specifically to some projects that he that were marrily delayed for him this spring that actually worked out to his benefit Right. Actually the the interest rate that we started with when we got the bid was for 4.4 percent and right now for this it's um In the threes like I think it was three seven on friday. So There is that possibility You know, that's actually benefit that we delayed it until this one And and I guess the related thing that I'd like to bring to the council's uh attention just because it will probably be part of our Reporting going forward is that there are a couple of really encouraging new financing programs that have been brought out at the state level You know one from the treasurer's office Who has decided to extend a hundred million dollar line of credit against a portion of the um The state's standing deposits on their pension funds uh to invest in vermont projects And they are looking for projects that have municipal support Uh that focus on providing housing that have an environmental benefit a social benefit And when we look at what that Application is coming into view over the next week or so here Um the first round of applications is due At the end of this month, you know, we think there could be a really excellent fit for Not only the hotel and housing but for the city to save some money on its financing by potentially You know looking at that as an option. So we're going to spend some more time kind of investigating that and on a on a similar Line of thought The vermont league of cities and towns has decided that they're going to make a similar type of investigatory investment of some of their funds in projects in the five hundred thousand to a million dollar range And we think that's another program where Um, you could very well be away from the city to save some money Moving forward and their their costs there as well. And again, potentially as a sudden benefit Something that we could help participate in and sharing there. So, um, just just so that we don't Scream gloom and doom here from from the rooftops. I do think that in a backwards way Um, financing costs have come down and it should you know, it should help ameliorate for both of us, um You know any of the additional costs that accrue from the extra Work we've had to do to get here So council, we have worn an executive session for this. Um, we have time with bill and dug to ask questions if they're like More detailed questions for staff or about financing or something we could go into executive session I can say from our point of view madame, we we don't we don't have anything contractually that we would Okay, pure status update any questions from council about the project status for garage or hotel or any, you know, anything of what bill and dug have shared so when you say, um revised site plans does that Does that how does that or Impact what was shared with council previously for um Design plans, I mean site plans being different from design plans, but has there been Changes as well to the design plans No, the the Plans that the changes that we're talking about are in a lot of ways a reversion of plans from The revision that was done a year and a half ago about a year ago to move the structural method of the garage back to where it started So when you think about How the project is viewed from the outside? These are changes about how the garage is being held up and how the earth around the garage is being retained It's there are not changes that impact sort of the shape and you know view of the buildings from the outside if we had I I expect that as we go forward there will be you know changes proposed As the design plans for the hotel evolve, but they would be something that would come to you separately at a future date So these changes that we're talking about now are really They're technical in nature and it's just a matter of whether it's less expensive to Have the second floor of the garage held up with concrete columns versus, you know steel beams Um, yeah, thanks. So with that How How does those revisions? um It sounds like you're going back to steel, right? um for what was proposed Anticipated changes because of cost and then at least for steel the markets come down. So coming back to steel. Is that right? That's what we're investigating. Yes, okay. Um So I guess um with the concrete elements then is there anything that will help with sustainability and um operation maintenance over time just to mitigate those costs Well, I think the The idea was to Constrain the discussion of Potential cost savings to things that had already to details that had already been reviewed and approved by the city so You know going back to 2019 and 2020 when this garage was you know, sort of designed and bid for the benefit of What at the time was going to be the the dbic project and hotel? um You know quite a bit of time and effort was put into the various maintenance and durability components of that design structure And and basically what we're looking at now is something that would go back to to that level of It wouldn't do anything to impact those discussions that were had originally It doesn't mean that when um It doesn't mean that when we bring a proposal forward again that the city wouldn't have another opportunity to confirm All those things but I guess my point is there was a lot of back and forth that went into a basis of design for the Steel already and the working assumption that we gave to do was You know, you can look at alternative methods of structure, but you can't look at anything that would affect Items of durability maintenance and operation for the city that have already been You know discussed and agreed upon Okay, that's helpful. Thank you Bill one just jumping in though. I think so the bid that's currently out There that's coming in is for the concrete precess Concrete structure that we're we're waiting to see if that's still within budget, right? So right so So at this point Right that that is that is the case. John the the bid process that's happened over the last three weeks Um Was it also was designed to find out whether reaching out to a number of firms in boston would change The bid response relative to Interest in the post tension the all concrete design at this point, I don't have a final Uh determination on this but the best the best report that I can provide right now is that they are not expecting to receive Any fully responsive proposals for the all concrete Garage design, you know the one firm That do spend this amount of time with over the last few weeks in boston We just became uncomfortable with The level of or the the hole that they had available in their schedule to execute the project Which was really early this summer In the capacity of the project to be ready for them by then So I I think we'll know tomorrow, but I think for now Our working theory is that we aren't going to see a fully responsive Answer that that involves an all concrete structure and therefore Will be focusing on You know what option we can bring the council to execute the project Thank you. John. I didn't know to be yeah, and I just to be clear I think so that means they'll likely be some additional redesign costs To to sort of go back to a steel structure just so one one of the one of the goals that we would have for One of the tasks that we've given to do going forward is to say look There's already been a significant investment of time and effort plans As they retain both the steel and concrete by the city and you know vicariously by us for all the things that have gone around it And the idea would be I think to have more of a design build type of component going forward You know such that the city would not be asked to advance additional costs for design In the absence of knowing that the project is going to happen Right. So the and john. I appreciate you bringing that to my attention. The staff was clear with us that We've already exceeded sort of the what we all hope we would spend on design for this project to begin with which just compresses the amount of money that's available for instruction and You know the idea was that we we we don't have carte blanche to simply presume That the city is going to be able to advance additional design costs here So if we do bring forward an idea that has additional design costs in it We would also be bringing you a plan about how those costs would be managed knowing that the project is moving forward So we'd be asking do to effectively Provide a guaranteed price structure we could work with That would include those design costs and would allow us both to feel comfortable with that direction I don't have that direction for you tonight But that's that's the the path that we're trying to go through That's helpful to you so You know as Bill said earlier there is no like contract change request I don't think we need to do any executive session this evening Are there any more questions about the the status update tonight? Sounds like we'll know more in two weeks Hopefully sooner but we'll we'll keep staff we'll keep staff informed Okay, I hope tomorrow goes well for you guys Me too Thanks for coming in though. It's been a while. It's good to hear how things are proceeding and and how you're addressing these rising concerns We didn't mention it, but I just want to say too that we're quite excited about the progress of the housing bill And the state and think that there will be some interesting workforce initiatives coming out of that that will be able to utilize directly and quickly For the project as well to increase the percentage of Housing it's sort of workforce eligible. I know you spent some time on housing earlier. I just wanted to mention that That's excellent. Thank you Any more questions? Thank you folks. Yeah, thank you Thanks Oh was Doug saying something? Thank you. Yeah, okay Thank you all. Um, so Since we will not have this executive's session that was warned we are at the end of tonight's agenda Do I have a motion to adjourn? Motion by Aurora second by charlie all those in favor, please say aye. Hi Motion carries. We are adjourned