So maybe that the trend of the Talk is about implementing loud foundry right into the middle of an existing data center Jürgen and I just want to talk the experiences we had about doing this approach Which it's a little bit different from the other approaches where cloud foundry is implemented as an island just beside the existing stuff to make a lot of innovation there and the old Installations are left behind Maybe we introduce ourselves very shortly. My name is Andreas Landenberger I worked more than 20 years for IBM before I joined Datif in 2009 then since then I'm working on Developing our platforms at Datif and my mission is to build a very good platform For our future applications and to make this future proof. Yeah, I welcome everybody for me My name is Jürgen Susner. I work for Datif for about 12 years now. I was once a Java GE developer I was five years a web sphere admin and for two and a half years I'm building together with Andreas the Datif cloud platform right in the middle of the Datif data center Okay, maybe first it makes sense that we introduce Datif to you Datif is a cooperative The main reason for founding Datif is in the quote here below The idea was to tackle as a group what each of us would not have Managed on their own. This is the mission of our fund founder and This is very important for all we do at Datif. So we are there To for the Benefits of our the members of Datif. We are not a company which is making a lot of money for shareholders We are supporting our members and this is also something which goes right down to the decisions. We sometimes make a Datif This long-term investments we see a Datif Sometimes help us a lot because we are not driven by quarters But sometimes they also Hinder us because we as Datif as a company always have to be very careful not to get into economic interest Interests together with our members To collide with their interests at end users for our applications. We do not only have the Datif members, but we also have a lot of Clients of the Datif members more than 100,000 small and medium-sized companies at Germany are Collaborating over the Datif data center with their tax advisor and their lawyers. So this is very important For the business we are running. So the Datif data center is the collaboration platform for these things Now if we talk about the Datif data center What are Is the main information here on the one hand side the Datif data center? We have main frames. We have AIX systems, Unix systems, big ones, and we have thousands of Windows and Linux service All of this is spread out over three data centers We have in Nuremberg in Germany and these three data centers are coupled via fiber channels From the business side of view This platform is used For example to generate more than 30 million Payslips each month and process all the payments of this It is used to store more than 750 electronically stored documents Which are exchanged between the clients of the tax advisors for example and the tax advisor So that the tax advisor can do the booking on it and this data center also does all the electronic processing between a tax advisor or a small and medium-sized company and all the revenue Institutes in Germany to determine states to pay taxes all the social insurance companies and so on so there's a lot of data processing there now Why do we need a Datif such a cloud platform? What is the driver behind this first? Let's take a look backwards. How are Applications at Datif being developed current in the old days we had a developer here who was Who was isolated from the internet? So an air gap network they had no direct access to the internet and they used Artifactory to Get in some packages. They need to develop the developer built his application using git deployed via Jenkins on the development stage To do this he had to get into contact with the administrator of the development stage because here We had a also barrier between development and operations the typical scenario. You see many Customers if you want to get further Here do you start that if proprietary tool to deploy it on the QA stage and also to production in all these steps The administrator was always involved. So he had the administrator had to allocate J e data sources and all these things, you know, there was a lot of emails going back and forth and deployment things and so on Now What drove us that we said we need cloud technology at Datif The point is that the developer productivity is one important thing We wanted the developers to be more productive that we want to get rid of all these communication going on the other point was We wanted to build self-sufficient teams which meant a lot of Isolation also into the cloud platform. We wanted that that development team a could not interfere with development team B We wanted to give that developers self-services and Simple process steps and full access also in development QS and production of their applications and If you look into the future even now Going ahead the point is that we wanted To have a platform which could be used as a base for Datif ecosystem Their partners of Datif would be able to implement their platforms also on Now is this enough to think about a platform and to choose a platform in our opinion. This is not enough We in 2016 we evaluated platforms like the Docker ecosystem We evaluated OpenShift and it looked at Azure as a pretty cursor of Azure stack and so on and Finally, we said we have a set of criteria each of the platforms have to fulfill when we build it at Datif The first thing is the platform has to be widely adopted. We do not want to only Put our efforts into the platform of one provider The second thing is we want to have the platform to be polyglot Which means the platform has to not only support the latest Java stuff. We want to have support for Languages like for PHP and so on but also for the point of to run Windows 16 applications this is very important for us because Datif has a long history and a lot of Applications and business logic and developers which come from the Windows area We have a lot of desktop applications and we want the Possibility to take this intelligence and logic to bring it to run on our platform And the second important point was you had to be running a data center private data center air gap for Datif due to the sensitivity of the data we are processing it's no option to go to public clouds and After evaluating all these points and making tests on various systems and various implementations We ended up using Cloud Foundry for this Okay, now Jürgen will take over and guide you what we did to make Cloud Foundry happen in our own air gap data center Thanks. We first had a talk. I will do the fun part and all the technical stuff well as we mentioned security is really important for Datif and The first thing we have to consider about the cloud platform is how to separate different workloads within a cloud platform To illustrate that I will Highlight what are the different types of workload we have we have these these public workload You don't have to authenticate for you get information from a data website. This is public workload. Everyone can access you have Medium secure workload. We call it. It's the type of workload Which a datif shop some by example offers for example offers if you have if you would shop for material for Products and all that stuff and we have that high sensitive data The customer gave us through the payroll processing to do the invoices and all that stuff And the first challenge was to separate these workloads and the solution was it as isolation segments We heavily use isolation segments in Cloud Foundry to separate these types of workload So that an application that do does payroll processing never gets the possibility because it's network Technically segmented and separated from the other one. We don't mix and match public and secure application on the same Diego cell but self service and isolation segment Well, it does not match because if you want to assign an isolation segment you have to have admin privileges and we solved this by creating a service in the marketplace We predefined for isolation segments in the platform and we created a self service marketplace service Where the developer can book such an isolation segment? These service takes care about assigning all the placement tags and everything that is necessary And if the developer pushes an application to that space flagged with such a service The application gets delivered in the correct isolation segment. It was one of the challenges. We're facing the other one was We told you we put platform right in the middle of the data center So we put it really deep in the data center. So how can we integrate it with everything we have already in the data center? So just let me show you what the data center of that if looks in a great or higher of you like We have that internet that cloudy thing We have authentication authorization gateways and we have HTTP routing tiers and behind these routing tiers We already had Jee in dot net application servers And what we did we put cloud foundry right besides our existing application servers Which actually means the cloud foundry domains are not accessible At at first so we have to solve different things HTTP routing how can we achieve a self service that a developer pushing an application to cloud foundry Gets a route that this application will be accessible from the internet via the existing gateways The other one was about how connecting to legacy services to all the existing services We already have in the data center and what about logging monitoring and all this stuff we need Well, as you're supposed we created service in the marketplace for that One service was HTTP routing as a service the developer can book this service and it creates Exactly this route that is necessary that the application can be called from the outside world Another another service we bought we called it legacy as a service because it's not only one service It's more than one we created services for creating DB twos on the mainframe We utilizing IBM COS MF and that helps us to create on-the-fly DB twos on the mainframe system So the DB two at a start have became Just as as any other postgres the developer can book it gets its own user It's full DB admin access and can use these DB two just like a postgres or any other database And also we created services for accessing all the legacy backends We have which they are not not even a protocol name to access them But we have them in the data center and we want to access them for from Cloud Foundry as well Another thing is monitoring Also a service the developer can't decide if it one if you want monitoring or not and he can book these Service we have a huge infrastructure from see a Wiley Well, actually it's a APM at the moment. They always change the name and Developer can opt into that and say okay I want my application to be monitored and all these monitoring data It's the same infrastructure we use on their other platforms so the developer can match the data generated by the Cloud Foundry applications and compare it and Compare it with any other application running on any other platform So it's it gets a full view of the complete data center and all the applications no matter what platform they are and We did exactly the same with Splunk we use Splunk for logging So we also integrated Cloud Foundry and all the locks Cloud Foundry produces in the Splunk system So you can check what can see your application locks and all the infrastructure locks around it even down till the firewall locks So if you check for a problem you have all the locks there and what's important These locks are visible to all data to all data developers Everyone in data can see all these log data and all these monitoring data The obscise do not see any more than the developers see and that was one key point, which is really important for us Also, we thought about well going the cloud native way developing new applications is one part But we have that huge infrastructure. We have IIS we have exist many existing JEE applications about three to four hundred JEE Applications running on a traditional website cluster. We will have the need to port them But these applications are created and they rely on specific Things like naming conventions like files in the file system Which exists they write logs in the file system because we told the developers always don't use standard out You have 20 applications on one application server if you use standard out no more no one will know which locks are from watch process So we told them to use log files, but if you want to write log files in a Cloud Foundry environment, it's well not that good actually So we created a build pack We created our own build pack and these build pack Helps us to fill this gap. This build pack creates an environment for the application Well that the existing JEE application has zero to no migration effort Almost no migration effort the applications can be ported to Cloud Foundry and the build pack takes care about generating the application server configuration about Taking the logs which are written to the file system to a Splunk for example and all the other things that are necessary and With this build pack we can achieve that JEE applications at Datif can be run on any application server now whether it's classical web sphere It's Cloud Foundry web celebrity actually in Cloud Foundry, or if it's even a CICS or kick system on the mainframe where also web celebrity application server runs and These really helps us to keep the door open for any existing applications to be ported to Cloud Foundry So I will hand over to Andreas. Okay. Thanks again Now what are the plans and Where are we now? First where are we now we started in January 2017 with setting up Cloud Foundry in April our Development environment was ready. So pilot projects began to do this and in September production was live What we achieved is that now we have this product teams Enabled that they can really work self-sufficient on the platform The interference with administrators or the support of administrators is very much reduced On the other hand side We not only have now JEE as Application but also we now go into the direction of spring boot And so on and we support Windows and we even have now a colleague who is written his application in go because he said I'm doing some the kind of Credentials stuff and so goes my language and okay We have you guys presented some of the marketplace entries we have we have a much much more And so our marketplace and by this also self-service is growing very rapidly and this is very important for us And we see a company-wide adoption of this platform currently we have roughly 950 developers registered for the platforms one More very active one less active, but you know also the cold Education at Darthiff is going into the direction of Cloud Foundry Okay, these are the numbers we have produced so far as I said in April We started with development Environment going live and in September with production. These are the running app instances one side note perhaps We are using the autosleep service to To make Stop applications which are not needed and this helps us to reduce resource consumption and also licensing costs Well, actually we use autosleep just in development. Yeah for sure Yeah, what our future plans as I already said we want to go into the direction of spring Much more. We want to go into the direction of windows 2016 applications We have currently a very big project with windows at our door front Which will at least require the same infrastructure we have behind this currently running cloud also for this application alone So this will be a challenge for us and very interesting on the other hand side for the platform we want to go into the direction of Kubernetes container runtime because We see from the business the demand on the one hand side to buy off the shelf Products and to run it in our data center and this will be delivered as Docker containers So we make that them integrated into our platform on the other hand side. We want to have databases be provisioned as Docker containers we want to have Container networking running and this is not only for performance but this is also for security reason because container networking gives us the opportunity to only Make the really needed applications and services externally accessible and the rest can be hidden and We want to go into the direction of grad hub or vault because we have encrypted Credentials in our platform, but the management of these credentials is still one of them our main pain points We have you know these are and so Encrypting these credentials in decrypting and so on this is not the way we would like the platform to behave and so we go Into this direction one of the points that limits a bit self-services in production because It's always still hard that a developer again can get the production password for the DB2 instance For example, and that's why we heavily investing in credit up or in vault. Yeah, okay What is our channel vision we are following it's platform as a product I've heard this term at this conference more than once and it's it's good So so we are not the only ones thinking into this direction and it's based on a Article or blog post by engineer better. They guys have a booth up there already so They posted it under post DevOps I will have the link in it there and this for thinking Has influenced also what we want to do we want on one hand side We want a platform team which is platform DevOps development and operations in the platform And so this is very important This also goes hand-in-hand with the Google site reliability engineering thinking you only have to do not only have Operations people in the platform You also have a lot of development there to make more self-services to automate it even better And this platform team defines a platform contract for example by the implementation of self-services and Based on these platform contract there all of these Application development teams and operation seems application DevOps seems they implement their application So we still have a very clean separation of concerns the application DevOps teams can run their Applications and it implement them, but they have a Solid platform below them so they can concentrate on the application. This is the focus we have there Okay, this is the promised link to the colleagues from engineer better. Okay, what are the lessons we learned? Is it advisable to deploy pass as an island? No in our Experience it's very good to implement it into existing world because you know if you're building a serious application sooner or later you have to talk to the other systems and Implementing pass also into the existing world in my opinion is also very good to Take the people who are building or running that they're already Existing systems take them with you. So there is no other guys doing something in a corner of their company No, it's all people are involved to bring this platform ahead and this is important for us The thinking of post DevOps as already said is important To have this clean separation But to be honest we have application DevOps teams now knocking at the door of the platform DevOps team is saying hey guys you have such a knowledge about these technologies and so on could you please help us? So one of the things we are now thinking about is implementing Application support service or having the opportunity for the application DevOps teams that they can book a premium support by the platform seems so even there the Boundary will now get a little bit open Cloud Foundry in our experience is a much about people's mind. It's not only technology It breaks a lot of barriers down within the company So if you run such a platform you have to interact with most of the departments in your company This is very important for us and one thing is that now our developers are also beginning to think about day two. There is no Barrier anymore where they can take their Deployment artifacts throw it over the wall and then operations will take care of no that they can see their thing run They can access it and and they see their baby fail No, and this is very important from them from the mindset We are going to Okay next question we also Had a lot of discussions with is you know as I told you in January 2017 we began setting up the platform and in April we had to deliver and so we always thought you know Do we have to take all processes we already have in the existing world take them over do we have the time to modify them do we? Should we take them over with us and our experience is that you can should be very careful with this, you know You have to find a balance between Taking everything from the old world and implementing the cloud foundry all the old thinking and then the cloud foundry will not Live up to its value on the other hand side It will take in a company a lot of discussions It will over months now with IT security all these people to get something working if you say we start from zero and the last point is Don't underestimate the effort to change everything you know in the company as I said we To bring cloud funding to life in an existing data center you have to touch so many points any of tabs so many discussions Even if you say okay, we a little bit behave like the old world. This is a lot of effort but some things Stay the same or even get more important. The one thing is monitoring Cloud Foundry is very good and also you can showed to monitoring points We are also integrating but monitoring such a complex platform and These 12 fact-app applications, this is very important and monitoring is not only about the technology monitoring But also about monitoring business KPIs The second point is communication our PO Peter Sieber is doing an excellent job to communicate constantly about the platform we are building but this is an effort all in the teams have to do You know, we have to so our also our colleagues who are running the base platform They are making block entries into for example into the block of the development departments and so on so we are very open on this and The theme of working together in a company. This is very important for us because No cloud foundry is not as I already said about technology. It's about mindset and cloud foundry not only enable us to a new set of Working together. I in my opinion it forces us to a new set of working together and this is for us very important, okay, so This was a very short very fast introduction what we are doing Any questions, I know that the data from the past was very much idle oriented Yes, and now you're doing it a very agile way Yeah, how did you change your processes was in doubt if to make that happen? This is a good question. I We talked about isolation of things our colleagues from the idle part and also our operation teams were very much focused to say We need changes and so on because we are not isolated if you break something, you know the whole ecosystem might break So so you know we had meetings with as much people as here in the room for big change meetings you know and now with cloud foundry where we say this is so much isolated we come from the public cloud area, you know from where The clients are isolated and if this Breaks the this did application that it breaks itself that they're you know, so the so we ended up that People building applications on this platform do not have to go to the big change meeting They only are making a doku change, which means I just documented that I changed something so that if something Explodes can't everybody can see that something changed, but I do not have to you know to agree on it You know that this is a big change The technology helped us to bring this forward, but a good question. Thank you And even more these creation of documentation changes is already automated within development pipelines within Jenkins pipelines So so if you push you know to a stage it already created so Nobody can can forget it Is that build pack the gateway drug build pack is that available for others you Considered contributing to open source. Yeah, we have we have this discussion in doubt if internally And you know we have to how do I say we have to clarify this with our legal department How much we are allowed to contribute to the to the open source because in our opinion at least of urine and mine We should contribute it because you know we you cannot always take from a community You have to give back something actually this question is already asked by IBM because IBM was really fascinated about the Possibility of porting a web sphere traditional application as it is to Cloud Foundry Which is already the glue code between the standard IBM Liberty build pack and that what we put on top of it Yeah, but but to be honest, you know if you make it publicly Available that then you would have to make at least the data specifics things You know, we would have to make this configurable somehow, you know, because nobody would ever want to have some data JVM properties or something like this in his environment, which is understandable So in the classical networking world, you usually have classical security concepts with security zoning and Firewalling etc. Whereas in in the cloud native setting you you typically have Production workload running in the same platform or you can have production running in the same platform as dev work How did you have challenges in this in this area of Where these two worlds were clashing? We have we have three foundations We have test QA and broad foundation which are strictly separated from a networking point of view And currently as Jürgen has shown the isolation segments. They are The own villains so so so they are really separated from the other thing. So even if you would manage to take over a public Application of data and you would manage to break out of the container of the public application into the VM You know that then you would only be able to see the VMs and the ego cells for the for the pub data of public workloads You would not from the firewall you would not be able to go somewhere from there So we also have the the the data if we call it the core isolation segment Well, the Diego brain and all of that if of the cloud foundry is running This is also separate in its own Vlan and you can only communicate from the core isolation segment to the public isolation segment But not the other way around Actually, no application from that if is running in the core segment except the system applications of the foundry Yeah, yeah, but yeah, but we are currently we have approach sector going on to take this strict isolation with isolation segments and and This Vlan's and all these things to open it up a little bit more maybe So that you can at least in the secured areas You can have the policy not on the on this big block of data You know very highly confidential data and only data you can access the truth and password To build more intelligence into the applications or in API gateways or something like this to go to go a bit above the networking layer Okay, I know data from my history a little bit more before well, and I have what I understand It's that you're running Cloud Foundry for your data center computing processes, which means your own shops and the Processes of the our customer which sense the data center but I think the main development software development of data force in the past on dot see and was introduced to Netframe of the data workspace. Yeah, and my question is now Do you plan something like to enable our customers to go to a cloud or its own Cloud Foundry's installation with that applications which run on Cloud Foundry. Is this plan something? Because that's the main development of your Well, if you have a reminder the keynote this morning there was this shape of JVN.net and that Really left such shifted white box. That's actually kind of what that if looks like we have a little on Dot net on this platform, but yeah as you said we are shipping a lot of software as a d4d to the customers and a lot of business code that That's why we are investing in Windows Server 2016 and container isolation and you want to make Windows 2016 Containers first class citizens in the platform with all the same features to enable all these dot net developers to use the language They're used to in their buildings tools. They're used to but use it on the cloud platform Maybe it's Data text software from the past has some I will say more or less performance is you are scalable Things inside. It's not really scalable. So when you try to start to go to Cloud Foundry with this dot net application Yeah, you really enable the bigger customer one. Yeah to scale it Yeah, because they have really issues with the performance and yeah, and if this is a Exist a plans. Yeah This is so your question touches a lot of different layers of thinking. Yeah, so so so the first one is the the data favor strategy for for the cloud or online world The so we have scenarios where you have Clients of that if of text consultants or B2C market these are in our opinion are native cloud Applications we have to go and nobody will install a dative software as a B2C customer Now our opinions is so we have to make this cloud native from and move very much into this direction The second thing is the as you said in the text advisor and so on the installations He currently runs on premise in his own office Yeah, we have the decision that we will make bring them to the cloud wherever it makes sense for the text advisor Maybe, you know, he has he says some data I want to keep locally because it's about my own business and I do not want to have data to have a way to look at Or whatever Objections he might have so we will have I think in the future also desktop applications, but but you know our Target is to make all scenarios that make sense to bring it into the data center for example, we have areas where In in bookkeeping and so on, you know, where the collaboration also between the text advisor client and the text advisor Also now needs close cooperation and this has to be online also from the few of the text advisor So this is something where we The in in five years not All that if applications which are currently running in the text office will be cloud based application But this business area is let's say where it makes sense the other ones like text advisor clients or B2C customers like This will be definitely And you mean also this data from line and so on as well if you say Custom and so on which uses data for online features and Do It depends where it makes sense actually We are not here with Cloud Foundry to To abandon any other platform we have in the data center as long as it makes sense to port it to Cloud Foundry We will do so but if it does not make sense or if we don't have the time to do it The other platforms are just fine as well They also first class citizens in the data center for the developer can finally decide which platform So when you say a data online you mean that if Unternehmen online for example, yes So so also there, you know, we will not we do not have a date to say that if anyone will be moved to Cloud Foundry at the 21st of something, you know, but but there as we shown you Due to the close cooperation between the platforms, you know, also these colleagues are saying I'm now being something you and I will start You know there and we will have to Okay, okay, since since we're already over time if you have any further questions We are here at the conference of the all day Or feel free to contact us whenever you want. We are happy to answer any questions. Okay? Thank you


It's really hard to see that all of these kids are making a mockery of what my son, my son, like when I died nobody is going to be there and these kids were like I'm neurodivergent because it's cool, it's not right. I don't think anyone's trying to deny all of those things, I think it's just, you know, saying that that is autism and that anything else is not. I feel like they're trying to use the emotion of this situation to enforce a particular way of viewing things, which I think is a very bad way of going about things, you know. It's a very heavy state of ignorance and emotion and there's a lot of content out there which is reinforcing this narrative autism content as autistic people start to get a lot more exposure in the online circles. There will be more of this, like don't get me wrong, this is like, you know, the stuff that we cover, I don't want to like put a doom and gloom attitude on it but this is like only the start. Are trans people appropriating autism? Well I watched a video recently from Meg, I'm autistic, now watch who did a deep dive into a particular podcast from a creator called Book Angel. The title are trans people appropriating autism. And just from watching the first sort of few minutes of this video, it's very clear that this is going to be riddled with a lot of emotional, emotionally charged feelings, perhaps some misunderstandings about the autistic community. I think this is a good video for us to look at because it very much highlights some of the key issues that a lot of particularly ASD1 adults have with trying to raise autism awareness and how parents, particularly of individuals with relatively high support needs may feel about this whole thing. So I'm approaching this with an open mind, I'm expecting it's going to be particularly difficult to tackle, but I do not shy away from a challenge and today we're going to be diving into the full episode, which is about an hour long. And see if I can add some much needed commentary to this whole situation. Let's go for it. My son is 12 years old. He still wears diapers. My son does not speak. My son cannot feed himself. My son does not know time. My son does not know whether my son he lobes my son, like he hits himself, he hits us. That is autism. I don't believe that autism should ever been umbrellaed. And I'm going to get a little bit. I am to actually, I am sorry. It's really, it's really hard to see that all of these kids are making a mockery of what my son, my son, like when I died, nobody is going to be there. I'm so sorry. When my son, when I died, nobody is going to be there for my son and I've had to fight so hard, like a principal locked my son in a closet for 20 minutes. He was physically locked and after he hit him, it's a long video and these kids were like, I'm neurodivergent because it's cool. It's not right. I mean, a lot to comment on there, but I am aware that this is the beginning of it, sort of the highlight clip. So I'm not going to touch on it too yet, but once it comes to it during the episode, I do have definitely a lot to say on what's being expressed here. I have, I have also been told that this particular individual, I'm not very privy to sort of, I'm not really a part of like the LGBT community as per se, I'm a straight man. But I have been told by a few people, especially in the chat that this individual has some points of contention with the trans community. I don't think it's much is going to be much that I'm going to go into. But if you do have some comments that you want me to read out about specific things that they talk about, I will. But for me to add any commentary on the legitimacy of what they're saying, I think would be not apt because it's not really something that I know much about myself. Hey, I caught myself. Another one is going to be a good day. So before I move forward, again, I always want to thank you so much. It means a lot to me that you're all watching this channel and really participating and I'm building a community or we are. And it makes me really happy because I have such a diverse talk about diverse. We're really building diversity here. So it makes me really happy and your comments being a lot to me. They not only help the channel. They also mean a lot to me and I'm liking and subscribing really does mean a lot to me. So thanks with that. And now we're going to move forward to our interview today and I have this amazing beautiful person named Amber. And Amber is going to introduce themselves and then we'll move forward with the interview. Hi, Amber. Hi. I'm Amber and I'm a woman who has been asking for a hysterectomy for a while now. And then I also am a special needs mother and advocate. So autism is a big focus for me. So going into this trans world where a lot of kids with trans identifying factors that find themselves on the autism spectrum as well is kind of horrific, like horrifying in some manners. What? I mean, like, I think there is a pretty heavy crossover between being autism and being trans just from some of the statistics that I've looked into. But to characterize it as being horrifying is, I mean, I listen to what she's saying, but do not agree with the fact that it's horrifying. Why is that a bad thing? Well, says I'm both trans and autistic. Well, I would love to hear your thoughts on this wolf too. Danielle says, I think it's sad that certain people label autism as having few signs of symptoms instead of a wide range of unique signs and symptoms. Well, I think they said definitely at the start of the video that they they're against like this, this concept of widening the spectrum. So I don't imagine that this person really advocates much for what she would consider to be like low support needs individual individuals. I think it's important for us to look at both sides. But I think to say that, like, it's, it's, I think it's silly to disregard. To put it lightly, I think it's silly to disregard like the experiences of relatively lower support needs individuals, you know, she goes for the drama. I've never heard of them. Do you guys know what what platform they usually usually resigned on? Because autism is like a whole separate genre that we don't even understand as much now. Yeah. Well, it's well, first off, thank you so much. I would like to get into the hysterectomy thing first and then let's get into the autism because this is great. You actually have an autistic child, right? Yeah, he's level for now because the GSM five changed. So there's two separate categories before there was just one. Now there's like a cognitive and a social acuity test. So my son is a level three out of three. So when people say they need to gatekeep transgenderism, I feel the same way as gatekeeping the autism community because that's something that's so important that people now are self identifying as and it makes it less valuable for therapists, psychologists, all of these things. It's really scary going into this like it makes it less valuable. I mean, don't get me wrong like I can understand where they're coming from. I just think that their characterizations are just really off. Like it doesn't just because like they said in the same sentence that there are different levels like autism in the in the medical context to split up into ASD one, two and three. And psychiatrists when they see individuals, they will be able to understand if they are ASD one, two or three, which is obviously very, very different. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's taking away from people though, you know, like slippery slope to be honest. Wow. Thank you for that. I 100% agree with you. It's all of a sudden this new generation there. They're literally self ID since they self open self ID for trans that just opened the floodgate to all of the mental disorders that are available to us here. And it's as if these and it's mostly a youthful generation. That's just picking all of these sort of situations that are not a joke, trans. No, I think this is this is a common characterization that a lot of people have of the autistic community saying that like it's it's it's being watered down all day. It's like Gen Z is or that is woke people. You see a lot of it, particularly with a lot of the reaction content that is out there on YouTube, which kind of criticizes disabled and autistic individuals. I think it's it's a bad characterization because I think you find that like the majority of people who would would be sort of part of that category. Like it's not just young people. It's people who are all they're like pretty much most of the channels that I come across are late diagnosed autistic individuals. And, you know, I think that that points to the to the fact that, you know, it's not just one particular age group of people. You know, Buck Angel is trans has been in adult movies. It's one of the first earliest people to be born female that medically transitioned. Interesting. But there isn't just one autism diagnosis. Exactly. That's what I mean. It's like it's it's it's different. And I think one thing that people get wrong when, you know, individuals online are talking about autism, particularly individuals who are like what you consider to be as the one relatively low support needs. You know, they're talking about autism from from their perspective, which is is valuable. But just because there are people who are talking about that side of the spectrum, if you want to call it like that, are talking about it doesn't mean that it's a raising of her individuals.  I think people are worried that we're trying to like a raise. I've seen this new term sort of come up in some of the social circles called like profound autism that people are talking about.  But I think they neglect to remember that in pretty much any social context in pretty much like for the majority of the time that the mainstream has understood autism, it's been as a SD to three individuals who have high support needs. And it's it's more of a adding to to what people see. And just because there's more people talking about it doesn't mean that it's it's it we're trying to like appropriate autism. It's just the truth. It's just seeing, you know, the different experiences of autism that people can have. Ultimate Lotad says the acknowledgement of the being different levels of autism kind of defeats her point. There are levels to differentiate levels of care one might need, which defeats the purpose of gatekeeping. Yeah, well, you you're understanding and you're acknowledging different experiences of autism. You know, just another thing they think of it as a joke, but it's not something you want to have yet these kids all want to have it. So you having this experience with your own child and really what you said high level, I think three right level, whatever. Yeah, three is the highest you can be diagnosed as. Yeah, he's nonverbal. So he doesn't speak at all. And he's 12 and he's incontinent. So that means he still wears diapers.  And so it's what autism is. I think that's what one of the things that a lot of individuals who, you know, report when when they tell people that they're autistic. It's like you're not like my son, you're not autistic. You know, I think that's a very common experience that a lot of particularly late diagnosed adults report on that, you know. Oh, no, it's this video. No, it's been making its rounds. I think it's important for us to chat about it. But yeah, statistical videos have loads of trauma naturally. Yeah, and it's it's different, isn't it? Like the experience, the difficulties that that we face tend to look a little bit different to individuals who have relatively high support needs. Oh, yeah. The the idea of it being like a fashion label, like people people are seeing autistic people as they're trying to put out like acceptance based stuff and to to feel comfortable and sharing the experiences. And they're seeing that and they're seeing like TikTok videos to see an Instagram posts and pages or YouTube channels who were we were talking about this kind of stuff. And they're thinking that it's it's like a trendy thing. But they neglect to remember that in pretty much every other circumstance offline and also in different spaces online, it's not seen as a positive thing. Like it's it's to most of mainstream individuals. It's not seen as a positive thing. And in fact, it can, you know, lead to a lot of difficult situations, a lot of negative characterizations more than anything. And they just see these communities, these groups of talking about autism as normalizing the experiences that autistic people have within that community. And thinking that it's trying to glamorize it or trying to or that it's like a trendy thing or it's like a fashion label. And it's just so not like that. It's just not like the work that people are doing online is to counteract the shame, the negative experiences that we have in real life, you know. Brie says, Thomas, did people's confusion about what autism is change or get worse when they combine different presentations into one diagnosis? I've heard that opinion, but I don't know what to think about it. I mean, I'm not too sure about the whole transition from the original diagnosis list being combined into one was a good thing. I feel like it more or less kind of dissolves all the other diagnosis that we had. And I don't know, it feels a little bit more, I mean, it's basically presented in terms of like function functioning, you know. Although there are particular diagnosis that have been removed, which I think a lot of people are quite happy about due to their connotations like Asperger syndrome. You know, it's just not funny because why would you want to be called the R word? Yeah, I think they forget what actually living as an autistic person is like and what most people's reactions are to when you tell them that you're autistic. I have hijacked. Oh, I stim, but I could do this on beat. That's not stimming my son. I could show you videos of my son. It's an echoic stimming. So he'll scream or he'll flap because that's what his body is telling him to do. It's not something like, oh, I'm dancing. So I'm stimming and it's really dangerous to have. Wow. It's it's kind of like, I don't know if you've seen the influx of people with Tourette's kids with Tourette's on TikTok. And that's what the social contagion has become. It's not only going into gender. I also, so once we talk about social contagion. Oh, my Lord. There's so much to say, but we're only about five minutes in. I could say every five seconds. I'm like, oh, I could talk about this. Oh, my God. I think what the new system does is reflect the needs of the person. Yeah. Yeah. It literally only gives you positive feedback and communities of people with these labels. This video just doesn't want people to have safe communities. I think people, they're just interpreting these things in a in a very narrow and narrow minded way. Like they kind of lumping everything into like Gen Z or like young young people doing silly things, appropriating silly labels and just making these very wild characterizations about what the actual autistic community is about. My thing with the hysterectomy. So I'm in the medical field and I have a 2012 from when I was going to school. My PDR about Lupron and all of the side effects that they've been showing since 2012. It shows that it castrates kids. So I have all of this stuff. Oh, wow. Wait, I have to stop. Stimming is a grand technique. Yeah. That's something else that I wanted to talk about.  So like launching your leg or tapping or anything of that nature. Like some people do see like this widening of the characterization what's considered stimming as like watering down what they believe to be like symptoms of autism. Like because they want to see it in this very deficit sort of way. They don't particularly want to be in a very sort of neutral or perhaps positive way. But I think that it is important for us to expand what we consider to be stimming because really what it is is input that regulates, you know. And it looks different for autistic people because we have different sensory needs. We do have different sensory experiences. And just because it doesn't fit this kind of stereotypical way that we view stimming. I don't think that that removes the positive impact that other ways of regulating yourself can be helpful.  I've seen quite a few videos of them doing that. Which I think is quite cool, quite awesome. For me, I get a lot of my sensory input that regulates me from going to the gym. I wouldn't really consider that to be like stimming in the stereotypical sense, but it more or less provides the same the same input that regulates me as it does like rock that rocking and something that I do. It's not really something that I show people online, my stimming, particularly because of individuals like this. It's not really something that I feel comfortable enough to do because there are people out there who will sort of see it as me trying to like farm clicks or farm views because I'm like showing how I stim. But I think when people show themselves stimming, I think it's really good because it normalizes it. And it helps other people feel more comfortable with trying to meet their sensory needs and the way that helps them. You know, these people are dangerous. I feel like a lot of people confuse stimming with ticks. Yeah, it's true. Oh, it says it in here. You have gold. Yeah, it's right here. It says it castrates children. What? Okay, so hold on. I think this stuff might be more related to like the trans stuff. I don't think it's much that I can speak on, so I'm going to fast forward it a little bit. So my friend is, she's a doctor in education and that's what I was talking about. And she was saying that she's witnessed so many like older kids do this because they're getting the accolades. That's right. That's why kids with autism, they have true autism. True autism. Come on. The same book says that women shouldn't talk or instruct a man. Let's not dwell on this forever. Fagi says I tend to rock and hand flat, but I know that I'm getting bad when I start to make repetitive sounds. Yeah, and the biggest autistic adults with relatively lower support needs like myself also use that to self-regulate. True neurotypical. I haven't got any accolades over a while. Yeah, where are these accolades? Where are these at? I'm into a world of therapy that is praise-based and it's, you learn to be social, you're not social. So it's like you're learning to be into this thing. And so that's what is, what I think kids with autism, why it's such on a rise is because you are going with what is in style. Because like my son is taught all of his social norms. He wouldn't be able to live in a world that is normal quote-unquote. He is taught all of his normalcy from us, from his therapist. Mind you, he's in over 30 hours a week of therapy plus 40 hours of school in a specialized school. So he gets a lot of it. And these people who are like, oh, I'm neurodivergent. That's why umbrella, like putting an umbrella over all of these things really has sickened me. Like the DSM-5 changed. And so now Asperger's is a part of ASD, which it should have never been. No, I totally agree with you. Like there's so many kids with Asperger's who are just a little bit socially awkward. I'm socially awkward. I don't know how to, you know, I'm really right. Exactly everybody. My husband would be considered on the autism spectrum if he was going by today's standards. What is the problem with that? What is the actual problem in that? I don't see the issue. I mean, there is ASD one to win three now. I feel like that's enough of a differentiation, you know. Really cool kids now. Yeah, exactly. German says the right ring you just take on labels to feel special. Also the right ring you just take on labels to fit in. Interesting characterization. I think I agree. I don't understand her thinking. I think it's coming from a place of feeling upset that the content that they're exposed to. Is primarily for individuals who'd be considered to be ASD one. And feeling like there isn't that that sort of watering down the. I guess in her eyes, the seriousness of the autism that her son has. And I can under the thing is I can understand why I just think that it's it's a very silly thing.  Like just because that there is different experiences with autism doesn't mean that it raises the experiences of a child. Like, you know, I mean, going going so far as, you know, I've had experience in teaching. I've had experience teaching a wide range of kids, some neurotypical. Some ASD one and some individuals who require very, very high support needs. I don't particularly speak on the high support needs stuff because it's not really something that I experienced. And I don't think the majority of the people who are using the internet are ASD free, you know. So for the majority of people that I would be speaking to would be similar to myself, relatively, relatively support needs. But that doesn't mean that it's it's erasing this. I think it's very well known in the public eye that there are individuals who have very significant support needs that we need to take care of. I don't think that's, you know, that's not something that I've heard any autism advocate, any autism page, any video trying to erase. In fact, I probably say the opposite. I think a lot of people highlight that, you know, autism is very variable person to person. It's probably like one of the most solid phrases, one of the most consistent phrases that I hear in a lot of the content that I look at, you know. So it's not like it's not an accurate characterization and it is coming from a place of fear. And I think I think it's it's just a it's a very sort of close minded characterization of what's what's going on, you know. What they do to us isn't inhumane. Also husband could be autistic because it's genetic. Yeah, it's true. Your eyebrows are working overtime on this video. I can do like the wiggle. Wait. It's funny how she says Asperger's. Yeah, I think that's the American way of saying it. I think I've seen a lot of memes in the past about that. What is her degree in? I'm not too sure you don't understand her thinking. Yeah, it's it's it's yeah. I think I think we most people like most of you guys probably understand where they're coming from. I just think it's like I just I've never come across anybody who's who's tried to say, you know, ASD for individuals who have very high sport. He's don't exist. It's kind of common knowledge. Like it's OCD and he stim sometimes. What's them? So stimming is like my son flaps, but it's like a rigid flap. So it's kind of I would describe it more as a seizure where it's uncontrolled. Now you see on Tik Tok, all these people are like, oh, I'm stimming. This is a stem and it's not a stem. This isn't a stem. I can show you buck videos of my son stimming where he flinches his whole he like he clenches his whole body and he goes into it. It's like it's like an uncontrollable thing like an actual. I mean, I think I saw that somewhere in the chat, but that sounds a lot more like physical tics more than anything. That's that's my experience, particularly when I go into quite heavy meltdown states. I tend to get a lot of physical tics, which sound exactly like what she's characterizing her. I mean, she said that her husband stems as well. So I'm so confused. Everyone has different stems exactly, exactly. We'll see here. And so there was these hysterics in like the 2012s when I was working in the ED that all these girls and it was weird that it was predominantly girls would come up with tics saying that they had Tourette's. But that's when all of this Tourette's syndrome started coming out on Tik Tok on social media. And it's it is conformity. And this this lady consumes way too much disability and autism, cringe videos. Tabaria said make from I'm autistic now. I watched this video the other day and it's infuriating. Yeah, that's that's why I heard about it from being overwhelmed. I'm also very confused. She literally did the video version of dropping the R word. What do you mean? Rachel says I stem without realizing I'm doing it. I can't but I can stop myself if I want after realizing. Yeah, I think that's a common experience. Personally, for me, I've been over the past few years trying to integrate more stimming because when I was in adolescence, teenagehood, in secondary school, I stopped myself from doing it. So the only times that I would do it is if I was pretty much 90% there of having like a meltdown or a shutdown or something meltdown rather. And the rest of the time I just wouldn't do it and it really put a hamper on my ability to like regulate myself. So nowadays I'm trying as much as I can to incorporate those. For me, a fan going to the gym, those types of things are like things that regulate me the most. But as I said, when I get into pretty severe meltdowns, a lot of physical texts, a lot of rocking and a lot of, you know, hand flapping as she would say, things of that nature. She's confusing stimming and texts. Yeah, I think so too. It's crazy. It's so sad is what it is. Do you think these kids have some form of autism that are doing this? I don't. Yeah. I'm going to be real honest. Please. I'm going to keep autism where I don't think if you're awkward or if you think different or if you can't be in a social room that you have autism. My son is 12 years old. He still wears diaper. Okay. Just being straight out there, like there is no, there is no attempts to have any sort of empathy for ASD1, low support needs individuals relatively low. There's just no attempts to do that. It's just blatantly just saying, you're not autistic because you're not, you're not like my son, which I think is a really sad and really bad way of going about this. It's, it's quite infuriating. Try not to let the anger come out too much. But it's, you know, it's taking me back to times where I've had interactions, particularly with parents of autistic children who have had the same sort of mentality. Very much just undermining just how difficult life can be for someone is the one lower support needs. Like it's just because it is different for us doesn't mean that it's, it's just the same. Like it's just, well, we just get a bit of social awkwardness. It's not true. Like every person is very different and their needs profile can be, can look very, very different too. Why do you think there are authorities on this? I mean, would you, would you really go up to, because I imagine this, but this person's very into the whole medical sort of deficit, deficit based model of looking autism. Do you think that if she sat down with a doctor talking to them about autism, that she would say the same thing? Like there is no such thing as ASD one. There is no such thing as autistic, autistic individuals. Unless, unless you have extremely significant support needs, I think it's such a bizarre way of characterizing it. Autistic Barbie is bizarre. You're allowed to be angry. I think like the actual difficulties that we can face can look a bit different as well because it's not extremely apparent from us growing up that we are different. And so a lot of our needs, it's quite a common thing that here, a lot of our needs can be very much undermined and it can be a pretty harsh battle trying to get support, trying to get support for your needs.  And some of the struggles that you may have, it would be nice to live in a world where you didn't have to constantly self advocate and argue with people about how you work and what you need. People can make some pretty strong assumptions about how much support you need just by looking at you. It's like a lot of people will see me and think that because I'm pretty good in terms of communication and socializing and I'm fairly sort of extroverted that I don't have any difficulties. But I have meltdowns. I pretty much on the daily battle mental health, which occurred as a result of some pretty horrific bullying during the secondary school experience. To erase all of that and just to ignore a group of people because they don't fit this characterization of autism, I think is a really harmful thing. And it very much undermines some of the stuff that we see in the stats. There's a video that we're going to have a look at next week, which is going into the life expectancy of autistic people. Bar epilepsy, for people with relatively lower support needs, ASD1. Bar epilepsy, suicidality is the main reason for our reduced life expectancy. So it speaks pretty clearly to the difficulties that autistic people can face in our modern society. And this type of attitude is very, very harmful for autistic people getting what they need to survive in this world and getting what they need to have a comfortable life. Thomas, what we're telling you is what you're saying. Good. You seem fine to me. People often tell us we shouldn't worry about all this thing, but that's easy one. We're not subject to discrimination and oppression. I think it touches us in all aspects of life. You can talk about it as being a social thing, but pretty much everything that you do in life, you have to talk to somebody. We're at play school, whether it's stuff to do with getting a house, financial things. It's pretty much in every circumstances that you can think of. There is a social aspect and if people in general have a very dismissive mindset to your needs and don't understand and don't accept your needs and your self-advocacy, it's just going to make life so much more difficult. Think about what others think of you as the root of connection we need to do up. Because as I head them out down on the train the other week, it is not funny. Luckily, there was someone there that helped me. I'm sorry to hear that. Harriet says the categories of autism were immute because they were basically arbitrary. Some people were denied support because they didn't neatly fit into one of those categories. Interesting. Exactly my most debilitating struggles are things related to trauma or being a high mass statistic. This is no way me having an argument of whether their son has these very strong support needs. That's not what I'm arguing against. I'm arguing against the assumption that we just have it easy and it's just a small thing and it's just being a little bit socially awkward.  My son does not speak. My son cannot feed himself. My son does not know time. My son does not know weather. My son elopes. My son, like, he hits himself. He hits us. That is autism. I don't believe that autism should ever have been umbrellaed and I'm going to get you a little bit. I am too, actually. I am. I'm sorry. It's really, it's really hard to see that all of these kids are making a mockery of what my son, my son, like, when I die, nobody is going to be there. I'm so sorry. When my son, when I die, nobody's going to be there for my son and I've had to fight so hard. Like, a principal locked my son in a closet for 20 minutes. He was physically locked and after he hit him, it's a long video and these kids were like, I'm neurodiverging because it's cool. I don't think anyone's trying to denial of those things. I think it's just, you know, saying that that is autism and that anything else is not. I feel like it's like it's it's trying to use like they're trying to use the emotion of the situation to enforce like a particular way of viewing things, which I think is a very bad way of going about things, you know, like, I mean, I could equally cry about the difficulties that what ASD one individuals would face. And it's something that I do sometimes when when we're watching, you know, videos about people sharing their experiences. You know, it's it's it's hard like and it's it's hard for individuals for parents. Like, I see that and it's it's something that I've been engaged with for a while. It's not that I I don't have an awareness of this stuff. I think there is a there is a very big worry that a lot of parents of high sport needs children have that, you know, where are they going to get their support when when they've, you know, passed away, like who's going to take care of them. And there is a lot of worries in that sense around things. But that doesn't mean that you can deny other people as not being autistic, as not having needs and not not having difficulties. Like, it's an it's it's an additional conversation. It does is not a contrary thing. Like, I think she wants recognition for all he does, or she does for a son. There's no way to go about it, though. No, and I think, like, I don't I don't think anyone's going to deny that that's that's the reality for her son. But, you know, she's denying that autistic people have difficult experiences life and have needs and can exist. Like, because of feelings around around this, it's it's it's bizarre. It's bizarre. I truly feel for her son. And I think it's partially coming out of fear with her. Yeah, I know. I don't think, as I said, like, reiterate this, I don't think I've come across any autism advocates, autism creators. If you want to call and we were saying that, like, individuals like her son doesn't exist and don't need support, and that we should funnel all the support for lower support needs and lower support needs individuals like myself, that's not why that's not what anyone's saying. I don't understand why this is a this or that situation. That is horrible. Like she complains about the system of violence, but puts it back on disabled people. I think she has an issue with the diagnostic criteria and I don't take it personally. No, well, it's it's it's it's a very heavy state of ignorance and emotion and there's a lot of content out there which is reinforcing this this narrative reinforcing this this mindset, which definitely needs to be tackled in to some degree and I do try and tackle it within the live streams I do. But it does have really real consequences. And as autism content as autistic people start to get a lot more exposure in the online circles, there will be more of this like don't get me wrong. This is like, you know, the stuff that we cover. I don't want to like put a doom and gloom attitude on it but this is like only the start like as as we expand into the mainstream I and more people talk about autism. This stuff's going to come up a lot. You know, and we really need to tackle it, tackle it at the root. And I think, particularly Meg from am autistic now what did did a pretty good overview of this and I'm happy that she is doing that kind of reaction style content because I think it is it is important. Because these individuals are reacting to our stuff, like, not not to be like have it have like a group dynamic mentality but for two autistic people, you know, they have they do similar sort of reaction content and we do need to to some degree speak out and advocate for ourselves a little bit. She is traumatizing needs help to be able to understand herself better in the situation. It's like hey, don't disregard those of us with low spot needs because we're still autistic. Exactly. Have this lady on your channel. Maybe not. I mean, I'd be happy to have a cordial conversation but I don't imagine considering the very outright stances that she's taking on like autism just being ASD3 I think I do think it would be productive conversation to be honest. Not right. I'm sorry. No, it's okay.  And I just, you know, I feel for you because it's it's not easy what you're having to deal with but you're such a loving beautiful mother. I can tell. It's not easy. Like looking looking after children with high support needs. It's not an easy thing. Like I've done it. I've done it for like a like for a number of years. Like it's not it's not the easiest thing. And I think there are a lot of ways particularly with the education system that can be very, very difficult to manage for autistic parents, parents of autistic people. It's true. But don't don't erase us. I just met you but I can tell and to struggle with what you have to struggle with and then to see these people making sort of mockery and choosing to have autism is so.  It's like the same as if somebody was like, oh, I have Down syndrome. It's different because you can't see that physical. That's right. That physical description of Down syndrome and so everybody could claim this and that's what's. That's right. All it is is like the socialness of having a disorder and it's like it's not cool. No, God, no. Why would they think it's cool? $50,000 a year for my son's therapies and his schooling. My God. And so me and my husband have to work our asses to the bone. Yeah. To provide and we have two other kids, you know, we have two other kids. The reason why we like and I feel bad sometimes, but I always tell my daughter, you're going to have to take care of Noah when he's older. Like you're going to have to take care of him. I know. I know.  Yes, people are pushing back on them. I don't know if you've seen the content that's out there on YouTube, but there are definitely people pushing back. There are definitely pages and pretty much any social media site of people pushing back. It's not not. It's not not this ignored thing. It's not a good thing, in my opinion, but it's definitely out there. That is for sure. Brace says Thomas, do you want to be a parent? I think I'll be child free. I don't think I have the stamina to be a parent. I think maybe it might my approach might change with time, but at the moment it's not something. It's not something that nobody chooses to have autism. Exactly. We can agree it's not cool at all. Yeah. I confess that these two people scare me. Yeah. I mean, it kind of feels a bit. It feels a bit like this, this lady's sort of taking over this episode. And like, I don't know. It just feels a bit, you know, this is just a feeling that I get, but it just feels a bit false, like a little bit. They're not not her experiences and their feelings about it, but just like the whole episode to this point, it just feels a bit manufactured. I don't know how else to describe the feeling that I get from that. I've never seen Bo before, but I don't trust him. He seems maybe that's it. Yeah. I mean, we can have our feelings about it. The facts are that, you know, what she's espousing is pretty, pretty harmful, I would say, pretty regressive to the work that people like myself, people who are out there trying to help autistic people are doing, as being like a label, a fashion label, a mockery, like trying to mock autism. I don't understand where this, this mentality has come from. Where are they? And why are we letting? And so, you know, that's why I do this. You know that, Amber, it's why I do this. And it's not just trans. It's stuff like this, right? That's starting to upset me as an elder and an older person who did struggle. Right? I struggled different way, but I did struggle to find my true self. That's right. To fit normally, to fit comfortably. My son will never have the opportunity. And the kids could write on the internet, take talk and do all this stuff. My son doesn't understand the use of a computer. My son doesn't understand this. And it's, it's just sad that self ID has got us to this point where you could say whatever the hell you want and you get to be treated as you want. No, my son's diagnosed. No, that's, that's not our way. Because I think self identification is something that's quite useful for a lot of people who are outside of medical systems that are apt and good enough to, to diagnose individuals without, you know, it's, it's definitely made a, made a whole video on the idea of self identification. But no, like, I think this person really needs to talk to somebody if she would consider this to have lower support needs. ASD1 individuals and actually sit down and ask them what benefits have come from self identification. It's pretty much zip in terms of stuff outside in the real world.  There, there's not many, many benefits at all when it comes to getting your needs mapped. Like there's just not, it's just not like a lot of the, the, the thing, the benefits of, of individuals self identifying is to better understand themselves. It's more than an isolated thing. Like people of course want to be a part of a community where people understand them and they can give them advice and they can, you know, have somewhere I think is, is really great. You know, the autistic community because it gives people a space to, to feel like they're a part of something. And there's a very consistent feeling that a lot of autistic people have around isolation and loneliness, which is very, very real. And they can have very, very real effects on people. But I have, like, even people who are diagnosed, I hear consistently of their needs not being met. It's, it's not, it's not as much of a benefit in the real world as you think it is. I probably say it's usually the opposite. People are more likely to fight against your needs and your self-advocacy and characterize you in this fashion as being a genzier or not having real autism or, you know. Love, Love, Rain, Thunder says self-identifications help me understand. I don't serve abuse. It saved my life too. There you go. Thank you for sharing that. Wait, he said it took years to find himself. What's books, identity? Thomas, are you volunteering to talk to her? I mean, I'll talk to anyone. It's just, I feel like if I was to talk, talk to them like, like if I was to speak to particular organizations that people would criticize me of like platforming individuals. I mean, it's a pretty common thing that you can find in any debate where you're wanting to, to get your point across on controversial issues, you know. I don't, I don't really want to be lumped into platforming this type of thing, you know. I just, I don't even think it would be a constructive conversation. I mean, this person is basically like from what I've gathered built their brand on or what they're saying in the, in the outsiders sort of counteracting this, the movements that a lot of autism advocates try and progress. It's not going to be as simple as having a conversation and explaining things. It's just going to be a shout. There's going to be no empathy. There's just my opinion. Maybe it might be different. And if this Ruby is watching this, come speak to me if you want to. Autistic people had to make their own space because there is no space in society. Yeah. Too bad she isn't willing to listen. Or is it Ruby? Ruby or Amber? Sorry. Yeah, they don't need to be further platforms. I mean, I think it's, it's always worth having conversations about stuff, but only if it can be conversations that are, well, not everything of course, but only if it can be conversation that is actually productive. And I don't think it would be productive to be honest. Mother Medisa, oh, I love that name. Your review in bulk, this looks interesting. Yep. The title explains the video. Thankfully, my university gives me the accommodations I need. That's good to hear, Obscura. It can be quite difficult for a lot of people to get those accommodations. Oasis took 11 hours for me to get. Wow. So there are, so insurance could cover some of it.  And guess what? It never did. It didn't start, you know, 31 years ago I transitioned. We did not have insurance for this. I thought to get this into the insurance space and we got it there.  And that, you know what that does? It immediately takes it out of the insurance space because now it's an elective, right? You're choosing to transition.  Oh, well, maybe you can just say you have autism. It's very dangerous. We've been on a waiting list for one of his ABA therapies because all these other kids who just ID as it, they haven't had an actual diagnosis, are getting it first. That, okay, there you go. I'd really like to see some evidence that backs that up, but also ABA. Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. I've checked this video out. The host has hearted a lot of comments directly opposing her views. And the guests replied to several, rather calmly apologizing. A lot to ask for these days. That's good to hear, SuperTrain. Let's have a look at these comments then. Take a little bit of a break. Manny says I agree the umbrella isn't helping. However, I hope this video doesn't lead people to think with milder forms of autism that they're faking for attention. It's still a legitimate challenge, even if it's vastly different to severe autism. Does this woman understand that autism is a spectrum that's mad weird? Mita ambushes a loving mum. Aspergers is made more than being socially awkward. They do take offense on many things she said. My son is 27 years old and he has Aspergers who's diagnosed at age three. And it took six hours of testing to get his diagnosis. He was home-skilled because of his autism. He had to teach himself to push three things when he didn't want to. He couldn't handle loud noises. So he taught himself to tolerate it. He's done things to fit in and find friends. The autism spectrum is very real. I mean, there's a lot of stuff here. I don't know if we'll take a look at everything in here. But yeah, it seems like his book is hearting some of these things. But I feel like it's being somewhat lumped into a particular agenda. I mean, the title is Our Trans People Appropriating Autism. From what I understand, the book does a lot of stuff around that and from what people have talked about in the comments, in the chat, there are some levels of controversy surrounding that too. I think it is like a lot of the individuals who spot the same sort of rhetoric tend to lump everybody under one label, like the LGBT stuff, the disabilities, autism. It's all lumped into Gen Z or young people or the woke left or something of that nature. It's all lumped into one. I just think that perhaps it would be good for a book if they wanted to get a solid sort of overview of autism to interview somebody who is ASD1 who does have relatively lower support needs because there is some much needed context for all of this. Everybody, did you just hear that? Lay that also over top of trans, okay? There are kids out there who are using the trans space, getting top surgery, getting hormones, getting... and then de-transitioning. That could have been given to an actual real trans person. Now trans people are waiting in line for years to get what they need and people who don't really need it are being put out ahead of the people who actually need it.  Can you imagine how fucking... That's me and you are in the same space, Amber. Amber, it makes me very mad when I see this the same way it makes you because I'm like, what? I struggled. You can't just go on TikTok and say I'm trans. Yeah, the gatekeeping is very clear on both of these issues as you said at the start of this stream. Next thing you're trans, it's the same thing with... The thing with children is like... you have kids who obviously don't even understand their whole entire cognitive space. That's right. And that's one thing that I've learned. I never worked pediatrics except a clinical route that I had to do. It was just terrible because you would get behaviors from kids and then you have all these kids all linked this back just so it's like making a round conversation so it's not just all focused on trans but kids are committing burglaries and all this stuff because older people tell them to do it because they won't get in trouble for harshly. They don't have that frontal cortex.  It's not okay.  They need to help. Well, and with the disorders being how they are in order for you to get some kind of help and some kind of hope there needs to be something on the books but it shouldn't be everybody who thinks that they have this or think that they have something be able to distinguish it. Right, exactly because they're not doctors they're not therapists but because you took a two-minute quiz on Google. Oh my God. That's another thing that I hear a lot. It's an impulsive thing. You've seen a TikTok and now you consider yourself to be autistic. You took a quiz on Google and now you consider yourself to be autistic. That is not the reality. For most of the majority of self-identified particularly self-identified autistic people that I come across they spend years years researching, years understanding, years thinking about and even if they go and actually get a diagnosis quite often they experience this concept called autistic imposter syndrome where they they just can't accept it because they don't know if they're truly autistic they have all these thoughts where they're invalidating their own personal needs and such. It's a real thing. To say that it's just this impulsive decision it's just plain wrong. It's just not how things go. Don't have TikToks still autistic. Talman says, Talman, can you find me a non-autistic person who actually wants to be autistic please? What do you mean? Yeah these two are definitely not qualified to speak on any of this. It's like in the same vein as them criticising self-identification they seem very very they seem very very worth like they have the capability or the skills on the knowledge to tell people that they're not autistic. It's just it's hypocrisy. Like really it just is how do you know? How do you know that these people that you're seeing are not autistic? Like come on give me a break. Now I'm really reaching my boiling point. When nearly finished guys, nearly finished. Don't you worry. You get to say this. That's kind of frustrating is that everybody thinks that there's something and it's cool to be something ADHD and that everybody has anxiety who doesn't have anxiety. That's right. 60% of people I think statistically 60% of people don't have anxiety disorder. No. There's even more than that. I'm thinking about autism. I think it's about 40% for autistic people. It's even yeah. Silliness. To say that the thing is with diagnoses people get this wrong. It's not a clear cut thing. When it comes particularly to what would be described as mood disorders like depression and anxiety the way that they legitimize a diagnosis and get people to diagnose people is by testing how accurate people can be in diagnosing individuals with that condition by talking to them. By taking them through an assessment and it's not 100% but the thing is that that's for everything. That is for everything. It obviously depends very much on the type of condition that they're diagnosing. It's quite apparent obviously if you have somebody who has pretty severe epilepsy that they do have epilepsy but there's always going to be some level of gray error in pretty much any psychological diagnosis but that doesn't mean that it's not worthwhile having. One thing that kills me now is everybody has to have something in order to fit in because conformity is basically like the wild child of the 60s, right? No it's not. We actually regressed. We were gone so good. Girls could walk around looking like boys could walk around looking like girls. He didn't change her sex. My son had hair down to here. My baby had mid-linked hair. Awesome.  Anyway friend, listen I appreciate you a ton. You are awesome. Thank you for stepping up to the play and giving us all this incredible information. Incredible information. So this could be clipped. My friend Angela, she's actually a doctor in education and she's really knowledgeable and she knows a lot of the things that go on with the kids and that's my biggest thing is whatever you do as an adult do what you want. I only knew growing up four people who were gay and I grew up in the early 2000s and now it's a boom of it, you know?  It's the whole thing of autism again. Just because there are more people who are outwardly expressing it and there are more people who are getting diagnosed particularly when it comes to autism does not mean that more people are faking autism. It does not mean that it's pretty clear from a lot of the medical stuff that you read upon that the increased prevalence like I'm not talking about being gay or trans or anything like that. I'm talking specifically about autism. I don't know much about those other topics but I imagine that it's similarly it crosses similar lines. I don't know how else to put it. But no, it's not the form of autism. It's not more people becoming autistic. It's not more people self-identifying and faking autism.  It's more awareness work. It's more understanding the nuances of it particularly for high-masking, late-diagnosed individuals and particularly for autistic women. Supertrain Station says they are addressing the fact that there are already documented diagnoses of the autism so get relentlessly bullied for faking it to be cool. Yeah, I mean honestly, like, what's she smoking? Honestly. I've got a whole documentary-length history of my experiences with autism. I was diagnosed when I was 10 years old. It's not a middling aged diagnosis be it. But it's pretty clear that I'm autistic but it doesn't stop people from saying that I'm not. I get that both in the online spaces and I get that in real life as well. And this type of rhetoric that's being spun throughout this whole interview, this whole podcast it's really feeding into something that's becoming prevalent and harmful. This attitude is just completely not okay. That's what I meant the other day when saying we were too connected, Thomas. Yeah, women with lower support needs to get believed. It's true. The diagnosis criteria for a long time has been thought to be particularly young boys, young white boys, that's where a lot of the research has been done so the diagnostic criteria doesn't take into account different cultural and sex-related factors which are important when it comes to sort of accurately diagnosing people. What kind of pills should she take? Isabella says I've been thinking everyone struggles with anxiety but I couldn't understand why no one was really talking about it. The society's really left up. Well also, again, the same thing Anxiety is not just one thing. You have mild, you have moderate, you have severe generalized anxiety disorder which is that I imagine what they were talking about. It looks different for each person as well. The symptomology looks different depending on who they are. Especially if they are also neurodivergent or autistic it's going to look a little bit different. It's trans, it's all trans. Some of these kids might be little gay kids but the thing is that they're indoctrinating.  I know I said I wasn't going to talk about this but like this aspect of this interview but I'm pretty sure that being trans is different to your sexuality.  I agree. Why would anyone want to fake and invalidate autism and ADHD? Do they not get that we struggle although we do it for effing intention? No, it's not true even uncomfortable with it.  There's so many emotions. It's just so emotional this. Where is the information? Where is the facts? Where's the stats? It's just emotional babble. It just doesn't land with me at all. The teaching of sex ed and all of this stuff with kids with autism they have to do short stories to learn things like my friend does short stories and I do apologize for getting off. I'm a tangent follower so I just go on tangents. The short stories that they teach them and it was really sexual for a fourth grader and I was like this is inappropriate, I don't want my kid to be caught this. We have one of the only gay governors in the entire USA and it shouldn't just be like that. He's pushing all of these agendas because it makes him look bad. Everyone's pushing the LGBTQIA because there's money attached to it. That's why there's no other reason why they would ever push this. I think there needs to be a lot more work in terms of protecting autistic children when it comes to things related to intimacy because it's a very complex thing especially in our normative society. A lot of stuff around it is very indirect. Being understanding how to set boundaries and how to avoid situations like that that you don't want can be pretty invaluable for a lot of autistic people. The rates of a use among autistic people is pretty apparent from the stats that I've looked at and the things that I've heard. I'd say that we probably need to do a lot more work in terms of protecting autistic people from stuff like that. Not from learning about it but from having negative experience related to it. Not being able to place boundaries and such. That's not fair. It's not. It's why I just detached from that trans community and I openly said I'm no longer a part of that community. That's not my community at all. I don't feel comfortable with those people. They're liars. They're lying to the world. I don't need to lie to you. You know how many times I have to say I'm a dysphoria for right on. That's actually real parenting just so you know. Kids need structure. They need to be told no. Thanks so much Amber for all your time and your energy and your love and wanting to really help us get back to sense of normality. I'm not sure if you want to be contacted or anything. People can leave comments down here and then you'll read the comments and we'll figure that out because you're really bold. There's a lot of people I think struggling with maybe autistic children or that situation. I'm an advocate here in Colorado so maybe I'll be able to leave mine. An advocate for primarily autistic individuals that she believes to be autistic individuals. Hi, information out? I would love that. It would be great. You would help so many people so we'll definitely do. It means everything to me. No it's not. What even is was this? It's really not good that this type of thing is being pushed out. I'm seeing it so much more these kind of rhetoric that I've detailed throughout the video. They're really really really harmful for what we're trying to do as autism advocates. I really wish that stuff like this would at least have a level of nuance and I mean this person but I don't really know much about them. I know that from what you guys have said that they're not particularly very favorable to a lot of individuals but I think if you're watching this and if you're interviewing someone else giving your audience giving the mainstream a little bit more of a whole picture on this which isn't just emotional because it's just really not good not good It's putting it lightly. There's blatant misinformation keeping horrible mentalities towards disabled individuals and I got sweeping generalizations yeah