So what do Christians believe? And why are there so many toxic theology wars and doctrinal disagreements and online arguments? Well, I want to give you fundamental beliefs of the Christian faith around which all believers can unite.  Now, we have to understand that there is a difference between a primary and a peripheral doctrine. A primary doctrine are doctrines like I will list in just a moment. A peripheral doctrine is something that Christians can disagree on without having to divide over. So for example, if you've been following this ministry for some time, you know that I absolutely believe in the gift of speaking in tongues. I absolutely believe that healing is for today. I absolutely believe in casting out devils and so forth. But as it turns out, not every Christian still believes in the spiritual gifts. Not every Christian believes in speaking in tongues or at least that it's not for today. Not every Christian believes in modern-day deliverance ministry. So this is why there are so many different arguments. This is why there are so many theological divides. But at least we as believers can unite on the fundamentals, the primary. I'll list those for you now. Number one, the incarnation of Christ. First John chapter four, verses one through three. Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the Spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God. Very interesting there. If a person claiming to be a prophet acknowledges that Jesus came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the Spirit of the Antichrist which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here. So this is how crucial this doctrine is, this fundamental of the faith. Jesus came in a real body. And if that is denied, then the person who denies that is said to be of the Antichrist Spirit. So not just doctrinally in error, but Antichrist. John chapter one, verses one and fourteen. In the beginning, the word already existed. The word was with God and the word was God. So the word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father's one and only Son. So there in John chapter one, verses one and fourteen, we see that God the Word became flesh. In other words, God the Word took on a physical body. Now, John one, one and fourteen not only shows the incarnation of Christ, it shows us fundamental number two, the deity of Christ. Another good reference for this is Colossians chapter two, verse nine. For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. Jesus was always God, is God and will always be God. Jesus the Word always knew he was God. There was never a time, whether in infant form or whether in death, that Jesus was not God. Jesus was in physical form truly God and truly man. That is a fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith. We believe that Jesus is God. He didn't become God. He didn't come to earth and realize himself to be God. Jesus knew he was God. Jesus was God. Jesus knows he's God. Jesus is God. Jesus will always know that he is God. Jesus will always be God. There was never a time, there will never be a time where that is not true. The deity of Christ, Jesus is God. Number three, the bodily resurrection of Christ. Notice there, the bodily resurrection of Christ, meaning he was raised from the dead, not in a philosophical or spiritual form, but that he was raised from the dead in a physical body showing his power over death. First Corinthians chapter 15 verse 14 says something very interesting, and if Christ has not been raised, then all our preaching is useless and your faith is useless. In other words, if Jesus didn't rise from the dead, there's no point to any of this. If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, there's no reason for us to be preaching to you right now. If Jesus did not rise from the dead, then the entire foundation of our faith crumbles. The resurrection of Jesus is central. The bodily resurrection of Jesus is central to the faith of any true believer. And if someone does not believe that Jesus rose from the dead, they are by definition not a Christian. That's how central this fundamental is. Jesus rose from the dead in bodily form. In fact, not only does this inform us doctrineally, but this acts as an anchor for the soul, this truth of the resurrection of Jesus. Whenever I'm faced with trial and tribulation, whenever I come up against heartache and Jesus said in this world, you will have tribulation. Whenever I face something that seems insurmountable and I become filled with doubt, self-doubt, and I begin to become weighed down by the things surrounding me. I always ask myself this one question. Did Jesus rise from the dead? And if Jesus rose from the dead, then that is the foundation for my faith. And knowing that he rose from the dead, I have hope for the future. Knowing that he rose from the dead, I know that I'm loved by God. Knowing that he rose from the dead, I know that whatever I face now, it doesn't compare to the glory I will experience then. The bodily resurrection of Jesus is fundamental. It's what every true believer believes. Number four, salvation only through Christ. So Christ is the exclusive means to God. There is no other way to heaven, to God, to salvation, to truth than through Jesus. John chapter 14 verse 6 says, Jesus told him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. Now, I know that's not politically correct to say it, but I don't care about being politically correct. I care about being biblically correct. There is no other way. This idea may offend some, but I'd rather offend someone into heaven than comfort them into hell. Salvation comes only through Jesus. There is no name under heaven, whereby we must be saved other than the name of Jesus. Number five, salvation by grace through faith. Ephesians chapter 2 verses 8 and 9. For by grace, you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not as a result of works so that no one may boast. You see, there's this idea that if we do enough good, that if we perform well enough as a Christian, that we can earn our salvation. Let me tell you very plainly, you didn't do anything to earn your salvation and it's not by your works that you keep your salvation. Now, what does this mean? Does this mean that we can just go on sinning any way that we want, that we can live our lives how we please and not face any consequences by no means? Rather, what this means is that we are saved by simply trusting in the finished work of the cross. And if we truly come to trust in the finished work of the cross, then God transforms our nature. So we put our faith in him and faith comes first and then after faith comes transformation. Religion is the reverse of that. We try to do enough good and we imagine that if I stop sinning now and never sin again and go to church every Sunday and live by a good moral code and I'm very generous and I do a lot of good in this world, then I'll earn my way into heaven, God will be pleased to be. That's not the way it works at all for the scripture tells us that our righteousness is like a pile of filthy rags to God. There is none righteous, no not one. So we cannot save ourselves. You see, many people imagine that if salvation were a tree, that the roots of salvation are good works. When in fact the roots of salvation are not good works, the roots of salvation, that's faith. Good works are the fruit or the result of believing. So then I surrender myself by putting my faith in what Christ did. I acknowledge that I cannot save myself but that I do in fact need saving because of my sin. And then I put my faith in what Jesus did. I bank on that. I tell him I'm going to take you up on that offer. I'm going to receive by faith that salvation and trust that it's good enough to cover my sin. And then that great exchange happens because of faith. Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness. Jesus gives you his eternal life in exchange for your temporary one. So then when God looks at you, he sees Jesus and when he looks at the cross, he sees your sin. Because we put our faith in him, it's as though Jesus was punished. In fact it is that Jesus was punished as though he had committed your sins. And that's the great exchange that comes by faith. But salvation doesn't come through works. You don't earn it. You don't perform to get it. It's not like a ladder that you climb and then descend depending upon how well you're doing in any given week. Rather it's that I put my trust in God and the finished work of the cross. I believe that that's enough to pay the penalty for my sin. I acknowledge I'm a sinner. Say, God, I put my faith in you. And once I put my faith in him, he saves me. He regenerates me, causes me to become a new creation. And then with that transformation comes new desires.  In fact, if you truly put your faith in him, you become transformed to the point where you now desire to please him. So faith produces salvation, not works. Number six, the divine inspiration, perfection, authority and sufficiency of scripture. Second Timothy chapter three, verses 16 and 17 say this, all scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work. The further society moves from the truth of God's word, the more it descends into darkness. It's a mistake to leave the foundation of the word. Scripture, Genesis through revelation, that is the perfect, inerrant word of the living God inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Bible is the word of God. It is inspired by the Holy Spirit, perfect in its message, final in its authority and sufficient unto its purpose. Now, here I need to interject a side note because some people believe that because the scripture is sufficient that we don't need things like prophecy or the Holy Spirit speaking to us directly. Well, that's simply not true. And maybe you've run into this scenario where they ask you, is the word of God not sufficient, you know, very dramatically? Is the word of God not sufficient? And it's almost academic. And they ask you this as if to imply that because the word of God is complete that the Holy Spirit never needs to speak to you. But that just fails to take into account the purpose of the scripture. You see, the purpose of the scripture was to give us revelation with God and put us in right relationship with him. And so I believe the scripture is sufficient unto its purpose. The scripture has, in fact, accomplished what it needs to accomplish. The scripture is sufficient in that it's put me in right relationship with God. So if someone believes that you can't hear from the Holy Spirit, they're the ones who believe that the scripture isn't sufficient. We know it's sufficient, which is why we believe that we're now connected with the living God who didn't go mute and still speaks to us. For example, when we do wrong, we sense conviction in our hearts over our wrongdoing. Now, doesn't the scripture tell us what is right and what is wrong? So if the scripture tells us what is right and what is wrong, why then do we still feel that conviction? Why would we need that? And why would the Holy Spirit convict us personally if the word of God already tells us of our wrongdoing? That's because the Holy Spirit still wants to speak personally to individuals. Number seven, one God, three persons. Second Corinthians chapter 13 verse 14 says, May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Matthew chapter 3 verses 16 and 17 say, After his baptism, As Jesus came up out of the water, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and settling on him. And a voice from heaven said, This is my dearly loved son who brings me great joy. And finally, Matthew chapter 28 verse 19. Therefore go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Now it's on this fundamental that there are a lot of heated arguments that take place among believers and most of these arguments arise simply because they're talking past one another or they're using semantics or there's just miscommunication. Every believer knows there is one God. No one is saying that there are three Gods. Rather we believe in one God expressed in three persons distinct from one another and all equally divine, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.  Matthew chapter 25 verse 46 says, And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.  The scripture is absolutely clear on this and if you'll notice any doctrine that is taught that says that there isn't a literal hell is based entirely on wordplay of the original language of the Bible. Number nine, the return of Christ. Titus 2.13, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. First Thessalonians chapter 4 verses 16 and 17, For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with the cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord. Christians believe that Jesus is going to return, that our Savior is coming again. So let's recap what we have so far. The incarnation of Christ, the deity of Christ, the bodily resurrection of Christ, salvation only through Christ, salvation by grace through faith, the divine inspiration, perfection, authority, and sufficiency of Scripture, one God, three persons, a literal heaven and hell, and the return of Christ. Now it's inevitable that at this point someone will comment in the comment section of whatever platform that you're receiving this message on, something like, but I'd rather have truth than unity, or someone will say, but Brother David, there are times to call out false prophets, and we should call out false doctrine, and we should call out false teachers. Absolutely we should. What are those false doctrines that we should call out? The doctrines that violate the fundamentals of the faith. It's okay to have conversations with fellow believers about the peripheral doctrines, like for example, the gift of speaking in tongues. I believe in speaking in tongues. Really no one's going to convince me otherwise, but I'm happy to have conversations with people. I have friends who do not believe in the gift of speaking in tongues, but they still unite with me based upon the primary doctrines of the Christian faith. We have to be careful to not become what I would call heresy hunters, people who just constantly look for fault finding. They're begging for a reason to divide, rather than looking for a reason to stay united with other believers. Really heresy hunting is based in fear, it's based in pride, it's based in ego. Sure, they can point to some scriptures that seem to validate heresy hunting, but let's take a look at those now. First John chapter 4 verse 1. Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the Spirit they have comes from God, for there are many false prophets in the world. So we see here that in fact, false prophets and false teachers exist. That's something that Jesus told us, that's something that the scripture tells us. Let's continue to read another portion here. First John chapter 4, let's read now verses 2 and 3. This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God. So here the Bible is giving us a very clear instruction on how to know if someone is a true believer. If a person claiming to be a prophet acknowledges that Jesus came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. We read this portion of scripture earlier. But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the Spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here. So we see here that in first John chapter 4 that the false prophets that this portion of scripture is talking about are those who claim that Jesus did not come in a physical body. It doesn't say here that you should call people false prophets when they don't agree with you on every bit of doctrine. It doesn't say here that you should call people false prophets because you don't like the method of their ministry.  Yes, we should call out false prophets. Do not hear what I'm not saying. There's a time to divide. There's a time to call people out. I'm with you on that. We all know that. But what in fact is that time to call them out? What is that time to divide? We look to another portion of scripture, very popular portion of scripture used by the heresy hunting culture, Jude chapter 1 verses 3 through 4. Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you and exhort you that you should earnestly contend for the faith. This is probably one of the most misused portions of scripture in all of the New Testament, that you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Okay, so how does this look? Well, let's look at verse 4. I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago for they have denied our only master and Lord Jesus Christ. So who are these people against which we should fight for the faith? Well, if context means anything to you, then you should be speaking out against those who say that the grace of God allows us to live immoral lives. That's what it specifically says here when it talks about contending for the faith, not calling out brothers and sisters who do ministry differently than you or who disagree with you on the peripheral doctrines. It's simply those who say that the grace of God allows us to live immoral lives. 1 Corinthians chapter 12 verse 3 also tells us, so I want you to know that no one speaking by the Spirit of God will curse Jesus and no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. Of course, the scripture here is not saying that phonetic pronunciation of the phrase Jesus is Lord is the way to determine that someone is a true follower of Christ. But ultimately what it's saying is that that's their message, that Jesus is Lord. That brings us back to the fundamentals. So it's around the fundamentals of the faith that we can unite, give up religious paranoia, give up conspiracy theory like thinking, and instead choose the way of Christ, the way of the Holy Spirit. John chapter 13 verse 35, your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples. We can unite around Jesus. We can unite around the fundamentals of the faith. We can unite around beliefs like Jesus is God. Jesus rose from the dead in bodily form. That salvation comes by grace through faith and so forth. And so long as we have these fundamentals of the faith, so long as we agree on Jesus, we agree. So believer, let's stop trying to win arguments and unite so that we can get back to winning souls.  Lord, thank you for the revelation of your word which grounds us in truth. Your word is truth. And I pray that by the Holy Spirit we would give up fear and embrace the unity of true brothers and sisters in Christ who are of the true faith. Lord, I thank you that you're bringing unity to your true body, those who believe the Scripture, those who believe that Jesus is Lord. We thank you and we love you and we bless you. And I want you to say it because you believe it. Say it in the comment section too. Right amen. Now, before you turn the video off, which is what most people do at this point, I want to invite you to help our ministry spread the gospel all around the world by the power of the Holy Spirit through events, live streams, and media. Will you consider right now becoming a monthly ministry supporter or giving a one-time donation of any amount? Your support, one-time or monthly, large or small, will help us continue to go and continue to grow as we expand the kingdom of God, equip the saints, and win souls. Go right now, davidhernandezministries.com slash donate. Give something out of your love for Jesus. Support this ministry. Everyone's support counts. So you may say, you know, I can't do much but I'll do something that matters because it's all of us together, uniting for the cause of Christ. That's what makes the difference. One more time, davidhernandezministries.com slash donate. You can sign up for a monthly gift or you can give a one-time gift. Again, one-time gifts, monthly gifts, large or small, it all helps us out. And if you enjoyed this lesson, please leave a like on the video. And also, don't forget to subscribe to EncounterTV where we show the power of the Holy Spirit at work. We teach from the Word of God and we are Christ-centered, Bible-based, Spirit-filled. This is the channel for you. Subscribe now and don't forget to click that notification bell when you do. And if you enjoyed this video, then you will love nine gifts of the Holy Spirit clearly explained. In that teaching, I break down the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit listed in 1 Corinthians 12 in a simple and clear way.


Allen you know I've been seeing you've been really busy on a comic-con circuit been really busy If you look at around this room, and you see all different type of creative people, you know not just comic book Artists, but you know people who wear costume people who make stuff What is your message to The future the future of creative like people who maybe who want to take a who want to take their life and creativity Creativity seriously, what's your message to the future generation if you are you referring to Speak to the young artists that I want to draw for comic books or young creators You know these are young creators if you want to draw for comic books do not Do not copy the comic book characters learn how to draw Learn how to draw the human figure go out in the park Go and copy even trace Copy trace draw draw humans go to art school But above all you will never learn if you draw Copy the comic book characters Go out and create your own How do you as an artist as in general as an artist? What's your Recommendation on what are your advice on staying sharp as an artist staying sharp as an overall not just an Not just a comic book artist as an artist in general. What's your thoughts on that?  I'm not kidding Be nice to your neighbor your fellow man. Oh, you can't be everybody's friend. I found out What we're doing to try Like cool, I really I love I love that You know, you're so energetic on the concept every time I see you post a picture I like I like your Facebook fan page. Have you have you on Facebook? We're gonna see you post a picture. You're having a lot of fun. I'm telling you I feel blessed. I Really feel blessed. I'm here to serve you and I still feel like I've more to give To the people I love To the people in this country and to the world I said it's pretty awesome that you That you committed to that responsibility because a lot of people have relationships with these characters or these stories and it's not money It's the love of the fans that keep me going They care for me and I love them. They keep me out of the rocking chair. They keep me busy They keep me My wife over here God bless her without her I could not do it She thinks she's Wonder Woman or Dutz. Let's not tell her


Anthony, thank you so much.  Welcome Chad, it's always a pleasure hosting the home shopper show, you guys do the utmost best job. This home you're definitely going to enjoy. Just a basic breakdown, so it's six bedrooms, six and a half bathrooms and this home is coming in at 19 million. But this is only for the opulent, the wealthy and the fortunate. It looks like an incredible home and I can't wait to take everybody through it and show everybody how incredible it is. Chad, this is one for the books, you're going to enjoy it. Welcome on. Thank you so much. Walking into the ultimate holiday home right here on one of the canals in Haughty Beer's Port, we are in the island's estate. You're immediately greeted by an exceptionally wide open space filled with so much natural light. But those aren't the only first impressions you're getting. You're seeing modern lines, featured walls and so many different geometric design elements. So I love how this house has been designed.  And let's check that out first. The half bathroom is perfectly designed into two separate rooms. One room is a washroom with a single vanity, massive mirror and under counter storage. Then separated by a door, you find your toilet. What's cool about this is you've got a wall of glass and that is privacy glass. You do get to enjoy the lush greenery that only the islands provides here in Haughty's while still having a lot of privacy. On the other side of the wall, leaving the bathroom behind, you get your first bedroom, a guest bedroom that is very well equipped. A queen bed fits in very comfortably. You've got another cool featured wall and a wall of windows as well, letting you look out onto your front garden. This bedroom, like every other one in this house, comes with its very own en suite bathroom, a built-in desk, a set of cupboards as well as its own aircon. In terms of the bathroom, you've got a bathtub, a walk-in shower, double vanity, under counter storage and beautiful tiling throughout. With one bedroom out the way, let's go take a look at the next bedroom located downstairs. This is a holiday home is what we said in the beginning and a holiday home that is meant to be enjoyed with as many people as possible. Which means there are three downstairs bedrooms. This is the second. Come with me. The second bedroom is much like the first one we looked at. You've got cupboard space, a built-in desk, space for a queen bed with a headboard that contains two separate pedestals.  This bedroom has an en suite bathroom with a freestanding bathtub this time around, a walk-in shower and a single vanity. But does again include that incredible view of your front garden. Just behind me is worth mentioning that is also where you'll find your double garage as well as a sliding glass door, giving whatever guests you have staying over their own access to your stunning back garden, that blue pool and access to the canal. And now we get to talk about the living areas and it's a lot of living area to cover. Behind me you see a beautiful concrete featured wall. And then inside that feature wall your very own smokeless fireplace with one of the breather holes just above it being hidden by some art piece. And then moving into the living area we have another featured wall. This time liquid themed, an abstract one that really does hammer home. We're in an estate that is famous for its waterways. The lounge area is spacious and because the home is north facing gets plenty of natural light during the daytime. And because of the placement of the pool, the way the water shimmers, then at night your lighting needs are covered by the down lighting set in the single volume ceiling. And then when we talk about the double volume ceiling as well as outside on your outside dining room table, you've got some incredibly abstract and eye-catching chandeliers. And speaking of the kitchen, that is where we headed next. But I'd definitely like to bring your attention to this wide open space here where you get unobstructed views heading through your front door of your pool as well as the canal. And here we are in the kitchen and let's talk about what you get. Stunning caesar stone countertops and I love the color and how it matches the theme of liquid water. Under counter we've got plenty of storage and above counter we've got a five top gas burner made by Smeg. We've got an extractor fan that rises out of the center island, something else that rises out of the center island of plug points. So if you're all entertaining for many people and you need some extra accessories here on the center island, they've got you covered. On my right hand side chef's sink, really elegant taps made by Hansgrohe. Behind me three separate ovens all made by Smeg. We've got hidden fridge on that side there which I'll get to and all of these are soft touch cupboards in a matte finish.  Absolutely love it. It's a beautiful sunny day today and I think it does call for at least some sunglasses now that we can talk about this outside area. So first and foremost we've got all weather decking, a heated pool that almost runs the length of the whole house within a retractable cover. We've got immediate access to the canal right over there as well as over there and then we need to talk about these stackable glass doors. You can see them on the lounge as well as on the dining area opens all the way out because this home is the epitome of a holiday home. Then we need to notice the sliding stackable glass doors. We've got it on the lounge area as well as on the dining area opening this whole house up to the canal as well as a lush greenery and you see the silhouette of the Machalesburg mountains just behind it. This home is a holiday home and it allows you to enjoy these wide open spaces. Behind these sets of sliding stackable glass doors though you've got your dining room area which is immensely large. It is built for entertainment. You can see the dining room table there with 14 seats and it is dwarfed by the open area to you. But utility is still the number one asset of this home. You've got a full on bar area equipped with a wine bar as well as a mini bar. You've got a chef's sink and South Africa's favorite pastime has to be the gas bri with you guessed it and extract the fan just above it so you can close off all of these doors and still enjoy incredible gourmet meals in the winter time such as today and look at our sunny days. But there's even more there. You've got a full on coffee bar. You have got access to another guest bathroom and you have all of this over here and we're going to talk about that. If we cross this bridge you've got your jacuzzi on my left hand side with jets. You've got this open space here right next to the canal where you can sit down, enjoy a couple of cocktails or a morning coffee. But if it's time to entertain with guests we've got that right over there.  You've got poolside seating if you'd like to enjoy a meal there. Your very own wood fired pizza oven and even more storage in case you're whipping up really large meals just around that corner. But that doesn't even surmise everything we've seen downstairs because we need to take a look at that other guest bedroom and then we finally take the journey upstairs to see the master bedroom and the two other bedrooms located there. But this home's got a couple of secrets so stay tuned for how we end off this video because you're going to be blown away. Come with me. Walking into the last downstairs bedroom we're going to talk about all the storage space. As you walk through the door there's closet space there for whatever pool goods you might want to put in some extra tiles or some bathing suits. Then separated by a door is the bedroom itself. Air-conditioned, spacious with an en suite bathroom, a built-in desk and its own set of cupboards. It ticks all the boxes with not one but two sets of windows. One looking out to your pool area and the other giving you access to the front of the house.  You've got stunning featured walls and then when it comes to talking about that bathroom you've got double vanities and a single shower rounding this room off. Now however it's time to head upstairs. So before we head upstairs let's talk about the scullery just off to my left hand side. You've got a full basin, dry goods storage area as well as plenty of counter space for you to store anything else that you want to keep out of sight in the kitchen area. But now there are three bedrooms and two pajama loungers as well as a host of other really special features that we're going to enjoy on this first floor. Now the upstairs section has two pajama loungers. One located right by the stairs. The other located here servicing two bedrooms. A perfect place to sit down, relax and watch some TV with friends and family. But there are a couple of really nice design elements even here. We've got the warm wood with the gloss white TV cabinet slash display cabinet. We've got these gloss panels sitting just behind the couch that obviously provides a bit of a safety net but what it really allows you to do is it frames the molecular style chandelier that hangs above the entryway. Everything in this house really lets you appreciate where you are, how it's been designed but most of all the fact that you're somewhere where you can relax and enjoy your holiday. But first off there's a bedroom behind me which we need to take a look at. There's one directly opposite it and then there's a couple of very cool features in between that you're not going to want to miss out on. So come with me and let's get started. Just past your second pajama lounge is this right over here. One of the bedrooms that again is spacious, comfortable and so well equipped. I love the display cabinetry that also functions as drawers and cupboards. We've got more cupboards just here through the entrance. Then in this bedroom you've got your very own balcony overlooking the waterfront and the canals. It's air conditioned, it's got another wall of windows letting in that natural light and letting you look out at some of the greenery that your front garden provides and of course it has its own en suite bathroom. This time freestanding bath, walk-in shower as well as a double vanity rounds off this bedroom but there are more bedrooms and we're going to go take a look at those right now. Second bedroom is up next. This bedroom again comes so well equipped.  The bedroom is air conditioned, has built-in cupboards as well as a desk and much like the other bedrooms you have your en suite bathroom, bathtub, walk-in shower, double vanity or double basins with under counter storage, massive mirror and I love the tiling in this bathroom once again giving it such a nice unique feel. So I mentioned a balcony that wraps around to the front and here it is. I've just left that second bedroom and you've got this wide open space for you to enjoy but there's so much more closer to the first pajama lounge that we haven't even shown you yet but before we head there obviously you can see the spiral staircase and this spiral staircase takes you all the way up to the roof and going up to the roof really does mean that you have got some incredible views not only of the mountain side but of all the lush greenery that this incredible home is surrounded by. Come join me as we take a look at what else this balcony has in store and what it has to offer is this sliding stackable doors behind me a beautiful view framed with glass railing another gas bribe built in with that industrial extractor fan but for those coffee and wine connoisseurs this patio comes with its very own built in and weatherproofed bar area take a look at this convenient absolutely weatherproofed and it even comes with its own set of blinds love the patio but there's still a pajama lounge to talk about let's head there next and the last pajama lounge is perfect to sit back, relax, watch the sunset or even the sunrise, you've got two sets of pocket windows that open up really wide and that complements these sliding stackable glass doors letting you enjoy the indoors and outdoors but most of all letting you enjoy that canal and the incredible silhouette of the Michalesburg mountains but this pajama lounge borders your master suite and we head there next let's take a look at what you're getting and here we are finally within the master suite and it so quickly becomes evident that this room is all about the views you've got those pocket windows opening up giving you unobstructed views of the Michalesburg mountain as well as your lush green garden but this room gets brought together with the warm wood pieces its spaciousness, it's also got a lot of utility with air conditioning, plenty of windows, a built-in desk as well as all this cupboard space and then that brings us to the en suite bathroom just behind this door you'll find your toilet, nice and private we've got a freestanding bathtub taking up the majority of the space flanked by His and Her's vanity under counter storage as well as side storage for His and Her as well then you've got a walk-in shower again framed with glass and that's when it all starts making sense the glass pieces here are to assist you with being able to look out at that incredible silhouette of the mountain of all of the forests here as well as that incredible canal even when you're soaking in a nice bubble bath however that brings us to the end of this video which means we're going to head outside and talk about how you can become the next owner of this incredible canal side mansion come with me and there you have it folks a 19 million six bedroom, six and a half bathroom water side mansion perfect for anyone looking to escape the hustle and bustle of Johannesburg and relax in the opulence, the refinery but most of all the peace that only the islands can provide we are right on the canal and as you can see blue pools incredible design elements and every single utility anybody could ever hope for this is without a doubt a steal so if you'd like to become this home's next owner what I'd like you to do is contact Anthony Marshall from Rawson's and schedule a viewing as soon as possible and don't forget to follow us on Facebook, YouTube and Instagram so you never miss some of Mzanzi's most incredible, special, opulent or sometimes just unique houses we air every single Friday also remember you can find your new home on privateproperty.co.za in any area at any price point we'll see you next time so from myself Chad Rivera, the team at the Private Property Home Shopper Show thank you so much and goodbye


This is talk about the state of the real-time preemptive project. So let me talk a little bit about the project itself. The mission of this project is RT mainlining in the very end. But it's also about documentation, establishing community, long-term maintenance, testing, and things like that. So one of the questions I get regularly asked is why establishing community is important. So when I was talking to Linus a couple of years ago about the chance to get preemptor T into the mainline, he said to me very clearly, if there's not enough backing behind that project, he's not going to take it. There's a very simple reason for that because he can take random drivers, random file systems, whatever, they can bit rot away in the kernel forever and eventually get removed. But RT is a different beast. It gets into the guts of the core kernel. It fiddles around with deer. And it might, to some degree, impose some limitations on the freedom to develop the kernel fruit. So at least not in the way they do it now because they have to respect that RT is deer and think about the problems, how to solve it with RT. So that's what we are doing after the fact right now, which is a painful vector mole game. So funding, we have these members paying funds into the project. We have that for 27. So out of these funds, we can have five developers working on the project. So they are working on the code. They are working on the testing infrastructure, on documentation and all the related things. So that's pretty good. I'm happy this happened. It's much more fun to get paid for things. So let's a little bit talk about the tasks we accomplished since the project started in 2016. So that's 21 months from now, from now, behind now, or whatever. So one of the two things we were really, really busy with and it took us a lot of time was the hot black lock, the hot black CPU hot black rework and the CPU hot black locking rework. Why would we actually tackle that? So one of the things was that the complete CPU hot black infrastructure in the kernel was known to be fragile for about 10, 15 or longer years ever since it got there. And it really was literally duct tape to death. So people just applied workarounds over workarounds and some other workarounds and all this stuff completely fell apart when it tried to do CPU hot black with preemptor T. Not fun because people want to run RT for whatever reasons on a laptop and expects us bent with you to be working or there's actual useful use cases. You have battery operated devices for data acquisition which require an RT kernel and you want to suspend them in order to save power. So you really want to have that support. I had a first step at rewriting the CPU hot black infrastructure which was basically based on notifiers. And the notifier chains have interesting properties. So they are randomly ordered despite the fact that you can assign notifier priorities but we had notifier priorities, 10 of them documented in the header file that were actually defined for them and then we had about 20 others which were randomly choosing numbers hard coded in the particular code file which is very easy to understand and to debug. The other thing about notifiers was what was interesting in the hot black case.  No notifiers get called in the same order. So we had situations where we had code where we had two notifiers because it was asymmetric and they required symmetry. Another code which would have required symmetry as well just worked around it by hacking really crappy stuff into the code to make it work. In 2012 I really got tired of fixing or trying to fix hot black in RT and I posted a first patch set which introduced a state machine. State machine with explicit states where we have documented ordering and the states that was the assumption at that point the states have to be symmetrical. So I run out of spare time and some big corporation promised to pick it up when we had a big discussion about CPU hot black at a conference. What happened was they went away didn't do anything about it and applied some more duct tape to the hot black code which was pretty much fun. So end of 2015 we started to look into that again when we knew that our T funding was in place and it's finished roughly now so we still have to fix that. But this is a new one. But this was an easy one. So there was a lot of ground work to do to get there. First of all was look at all the places and that's hundreds in the kernel which use CPU hot black notifiers and stare at the code and sometimes you need special glasses to do that. Analyze it, document the ordering requirements which have been interesting because you have the explicit ordering by priorities but that was only 10% of the total notifier base and the rest was ordered by chance either by link time ordering or by just runtime ordering that particular init calls happened in a certain order which was mostly due to link time ordering again. This was interesting because when we converted that to the state machine we didn't know because we were too lazy to figure it really out in which order they were coming. So we just assumed ordering which broke stuff. So which means this code worked by chance not by design. While we were analyzing all that stuff we found really several dozens of bugs in the CPU hot black notifiers in the callbacks which is bogus code in here. Either never executed or not exploding for whatever reason. After that I revived the old state machine core patches and rewrote them mostly but then we did a one by one conversion of the notifiers to states. So this was a lot of analysis not necessary because we tried to not only to do a one to one conversion we also tried to do a symmetrical conversion. So that we can really get into that state where we have the ordering buildup stuff in that direction and tear it down in the same order or in the reverse order. And that involves the gradual removal of the old infrastructure. Once we had this finished we went to the next interesting problem which caused us a lot of headache in RT. It was the hot black locking. The hot black lock was basically a kind of a lock. It was a counting semaphore not really covered by any of the lock debugging mechanisms or only basically covered. It evaded locked app almost completely. So what we did we ripped that homebrew counting mutex out of the code base and replaced it with a per CPU reader writer semaphore for scalability. That was something people wanted to have anyway because the mutex counter based CPU hot black locking was not scalable at all and a lot of code actually uses it in hot path. So you get contention under certain workloads. So I tried to do that. Yeah. So for a first period of time it was like 14 or something and then there was still no hot path so you could rely on this and please go away. So yeah, I think that we now find a problem anyway. Yeah, but Linus said, yeah, I remember that discussion and Linus said no hot black uses it and no hot path uses it or should use it. But he couldn't prevent that hot black that it's used in hot path. And I succeeded in that. Right. I know, but he didn't argue with me when I changed it fortunately because what I could show him one of the reasons he didn't argue, I think was that I could show him that now that the locking was under locked up coverage, we actually could prove that there are tons of deadlocks hidden in the code and it was an amazing amount. Some of them took literally weeks to solve because yeah. So we had this interaction between tracing proof K-probes, the chump label code, which all took in random places the CPU or block lock because nobody noticed that there might be a problem because locked up didn't complain, so it must be fine. We have this, Peter just mentioned we have a similar discussion right now in LKML about the cross release locked up feature where we want to track dependencies which come from a task waiting for something and the other task releasing it which is completions or weight queues where we can have interesting deadlocks. Task A is waiting for completion B and task B is waiting for completion A, not covered, but you can have the same thing with lock. Task A takes lock and then waits on completion, task B takes lock and wants to complete, doesn't work. So this kind of things and other more complex scenarios and people are now complaining, oh we don't want to deal with that, there are too many false positives and I had a nasty discussion with one of the SCSI developers in the last couple of days where I told him, well, we had the same problem with locked up when we introduced locked up. The first years of locked up were just annotating code and teaching locked up about false positives because he was falsely claiming that locked up is perfect and does never see false positives. I mean. You should talk to Dave Jenner. Pardon? You should talk to Dave Jenner. I did some statistics actually. We have about thousand places, thousand, literally southern places in the kernel where we do locked up annotations. Oh, I spent a good year doing locked up annotations when I started at Red Hat. Pardon? I did a good year of locked up annotations when I started at Red Hat, but this is how I got sucked into all this. Yeah. So, that was a pretty interesting work to cure these locked up problems in the code, especially the convoluted tracing, proof, K-Propes, chump label thingy. That was going around in circles. Thanks, you. Thanks, Steven. Yeah, that was another story. We are mostly done with curing it. The last fallout was the watchdog thing. For some stupid reason I didn't trigger it in testing and it got reported and I looked at it and said, oh, that should be easy. 40 patches later it was fixed. Because it turned out the code was so buggy and they tried to work around the CPU hot plug problems by papering over a design problem in the underlying code base and this simply didn't work. And yeah, that was another two weeks wasted. So, there are a couple of lessons learned. If you're unearthed existing bugs you're expected to fix them. Nobody cares. So this, I literally got told, this bug was not there before you changed the hot plug lock. Okay, I could prove the person that it was there. It was just not expressed by lock depth, but it was clear. No, I have no interest to fix that. Okay, you go and fix it yourself.  I mean, a lot of people talk about the code quality of the kernel. Yes, it has a lot of code quality in certain places, but don't look aside of those certain places. It's amazing. But it's a lot of fun to see that, to fix it up, to clean it up. And if you think it's sort of the worst thing already, no, it's going to become worse. So if you really want to help with such work and Julia is doing things like that, Keith Cook is doing it for a different reason, for security, he rewrites the timer wheel API. So he ends up touching thousands of files. And if you want to do that or ever get into the situation that you need to do a big tree-wide cleanup, don't worry. Don't give up. Just do it. Pardon? Huh? Reef count. Reef count. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And the other lesson learned was never expect that code boards keep their promises. That's, yeah. I was young back then. I was not a grandparent. So, that's an excuse. So, but the other thing I learned about that, that estimation of effort is extremely hard. When we started our T-project and got funding, of course we had to come up with a timeline or a project plan and things like that. So I took out a crystal ball and estimated it. No, seriously, the estimation was based on a lot of knowledge. I was doing this step for years. So, I thought I could estimate it pretty good.  Which is, in terms of software projects, not that bad, but I would have expected to be better at it. Yeah.  Something like two men, many years effort. And the resulting patch flow out of that was something like 1.2 patches per workday. So you can extrapolate how many patches that took to get this cleaned up. So, other stuff we were doing during the timeframe, we rewrote the internals of the timer wheel. Because the timer wheel had a big problem in RT. We couldn't make the timer wheel base lock a raw spin lock and actually I had to convert it to a sleeping spin lock due to the cascading nature of the timer wheel. And I wanted to get rid of that. That was done by losing the precision of the timer wheel for timers which are fought out in expiry time. But that allowed us to get no hurts and the no hurts full stuff working on RT again. Because there's a code path where we have to take that lock from idle and we can't take sleeping spin locks from idle. That simply doesn't work. We tried it, it didn't simply work. You can, but it's not recommended. HR Timerist has a patch that posted, it was reviewed, it's about to repost it again. It's about the distinction between timers which expire in hard interrupt context and timers which expire in soft interrupt context. So, in the initial version in mainline, we had this distinction but then at some point Linus looked at the code and yelled at us, rightfully so, it was ugly. And we ripped it out and for those users who needed the SoftRQ expiry, we came up with a weird construct HR Timer Tasklet which basically scheduled from the hard interrupt context callback, the Tasklet which then executed in SoftRQ context the actual callback of the driver. Pon? You're welcome. I don't tell anyone who came up with that. So, there's quite some uses of that in Tree and we had other discussions that some of the facilities wanted to use HR Timers for good reasons but they needed the same indirection which is inefficient and ugly. So, and RT needs it as well because most of the timers which can be executed in hard or the callback can be executed in hard IRQ context on the mainline cannot be run in hard IRQ context on RT. So, we have that work around for moving the timers to separate expiration queue from hard interrupt context still in RT but it's still inefficient, it's still ugly. And we reroute it, so it looks pretty sane right now. So, basically what we do, we have that the high resolution timers are queued in RB trees sorted by expiry time for the various clock, different clocks we have in the system, clock monotonic, clock real time, clock boot time and clock tie. And so what we do, we duplicate the basis and then we have for each clock base we have a corresponding soft expiry clock base. So, we don't have to reshuffle expiring timers from the hard interrupt context into a separate expiry queue which has queued them right away in their own RB tree and just say, oh, this is the first timer of this set and please make sure that the hard timer fires at that time.  We did quite some work in the areas of futics and RT mutex together with Peter and others. This was fun. Separation of page fault and preemption. We had it for a long time in RT then the S390 people figured out that they needed for mainline. I think it was for virtualization purposes and so we helped them along to get that done. Then there was a huge amount of code in the tree which was app using task affinities for obscure purposes and we extended a lot of the debug facilities in order to catch app use of various things in the kernel. So, by now we have since then in this one and three quarters of years we have about 700 patches merged either all day in Linux 3 or they are on the way for 415 in one of the maintainer trees. There's roughly 50 patches under review or pending for repost out there and in summary we fixed about 40 real and 80 latent bugs in that time. It was partially very obscure stuff. The latent ones I categorized them into they're basically impossible to trigger but they exist. The fully real ones were actually rather easy to trigger but people got lucky and never triggered them or they got never reported. That we had a lot of bugs, have a lot of bugs seen also with the early work in RT where we spent a huge amount of time of fixing up log problems where then people told, oh yes, that's the thing which stops my server every three months. So, let's talk a little bit about the long term stable versions because that's something which comes up regularly and came up recently in a discussion. So, these are the trees we are currently having. 414 will be the next one. I don't know what the end of life is for that one yet. Pardon? Long term stable, 413 is not a long term stable. 414 is the long term stable. Full foot, yeah. So, Steven is doing a lot of the work where Steven doesn't scale so we have to have a discussion in the meeting on Monday. So, Julia took over 4-1, right? So, but still there's stuff which is rarely updated and Steven has a huge backlog, he told me. So, we have to do something about that but that's a discussion we have on Monday in the project meeting. Our current development version is 413. Patch is out there, it kind of works. So, but we are not going to stabilize it, we're going to drop it in favor of 414 because that's going to be a long term stable version and we agreed on supporting long term stables instead of picking a randomly chosen kernel version. Whatever. You know I'm stubborn. So, what do we have on development tasks? The most complex one right now is decash locking. That's the soft interrupt modifications. There's still some rough edges there which we have to figure out memory management interaction. That's pretty straightforward but memory management maintainers are interesting people. And the local locks and annotations that's something I wanted to get into mainline for a long time but got distracted by hot black locks and other two. Yeah, I talked about that with him and he didn't come up with something reasonable but then he didn't care much because it works in mainline by some definition of works. So, what's wrong with the decash locking? Decash locking has one problem which hits us in our tiers doing trilog loops. So, because in the decash you have to take locks in reverse order. If you walk a tree in a particular direction and in order to achieve that you lock the top node and then you try to lock the parent node or is it the other way around? I don't know what the regular lock order is. It keeps forgetting it. So, the regular order let's say goes up and then if we go down you have to do the trilog dance. So, trilogging in mainline is pretty cheap because you know that the other side is in the critical section and it's going to leave it sooner than later. So, now that doesn't work on RT, especially not if the one who holds the lock is on the same CPU and you preempted it and it cannot get back on the CPU because you preempted it so you would trilog forever. And you get unbound priority inversions by that up to the point of a live lock. So, right now we have but ugly work around in there. We just go and say, if we fail to trilog we just go to sleep for I think a couple of microseconds or something like that. I don't, I can't remember. Or it's a millisecond. Like it doesn't matter much. I mean it's, the reason why I did this was, A, it was the cheapest solution for the problem. B, I was just saying if any real-time relevant task is doing file system operations on the decache I can help them anyway so screw it. You always have my last solution for the trial marker who's, it worked. I know it worked Steven but it's even more convoluted than the multi reader boosting. Well, at least it's more deterministic. It's deterministically ugly, it's just not. Yeah, I mean there's some deterministic behavior in ugliness when patches come from you in that area. We know that. Now, seriously, but I was talking to a couple of people involved in the decache itself and some of them actually think that the trilog loops are not needed at all. So there is some, and I know that there is some experimentation out there already and some of them, some of that was initiated by me trying to do more RCU stuff in decache. And it kind of works but there are a couple of corner cases which really do not work and we have no idea at how to solve that. And unfortunately Nick, I mean he's back in kernel development but he vanished for a couple of years in some dark hiding place but he's, it seems he forgot everything about the decache he wrote ever. Pardon? Yeah, I probably would have forgotten it by now as well. So this is the most challenging issue right now. If you have an idea how to solve that, which is not involving trilog boosting, which is something we can actually sell to Linus, yeah, that would be appreciated. At the moment I draw a blank but that has been the case for several times and we always came up with some solution for the problems. So let's see where that goes. So if you want to help there's testing documentation that's stuff we really need help on. If you really want to dive into the code there's a task list on the real-time Viki. It's half ways up today to update it two weeks ago. Yeah, I did my homework. So that if you have something particularly in mind please shoot me an email and let's talk about it. Other than that, just grab the code, fix it and send me the patch and say it's done. I'm happy to pull it in. So people always expect the roadmap from my talks. Here is the roadmap this time due to the evolutionary nature of Linux, the roadmap will be published after the fact but it will be a very, very precise roadmap. Questions? Nope. No, I gave up on that. You all have these smartphones now and can figure out where the pup is on your own. So the roadmap with the pup was back then in the time when most people didn't have these things. So no more questions, that's good. Everybody wants, looks forward to the next speaker which is Steven Roestat and his 500 words per minute talk with 6,000 slides in a half an hour.


e to be looked at. So I guess moving forward then. It's a third one though, right? I'm gonna do just, I'm gonna organize the first two. Well, I add three for the agenda item. DD13.02, DD13.03 and DD33. 13.02 and 13.03 are very, very similar. I almost feel like those ones should be tackled at the same time. Yeah, and then DD33 would be something separate or will be reviewed separately. So does that mean that Susie would take the lead on 02 and 03 to discuss next month? Yes. Sounds like a good idea to me. That's okay with Susie. So okay then, I guess to move on, so I guess we have to vote on tabling this then. Susie, are you good with that with the two? Yeah, I think so. And absolutely reach out as well too if you need any assistance with that. I'll be happy to help. Yeah, or if it turns out that one month is just too aggressive, then there's nothing to say we can't put it off. I have the network in those areas to sort of, yeah, yeah, good. But if I need help, you can be sure I'll ask. All right, I made a motion to table this till next meeting, so it was seconded by Commissioner Zaglino, all in favor, raise your hand or say aye. Aye, that passes unanimously. And that moves us on to the amended agenda 6.03, which I believe was the amendment from Commissioner Grant with regards to just updating a couple things on the work policy, just adding things to it. So without the floor is yours. Thank you very much. I just wanted to make sure we had some things on our work plan going forward. So now that the CNA review is complete, we should start working on the next steps to review the document and have plans of action. So the first thing we really want to do is make sure that we have a meeting scheduled with the Joint Committee, one of which we haven't, we haven't had one for a while. So we certainly would want to start there, a specific meeting with them, make that request to meet with them and have a plan of action for reviewing the CNA report and taking additional steps. The other issue that I didn't want to get lost, I would like to definitely put excited delirium on, what was thinking maybe December? Are we gonna meet in December? I know sometimes around the holidays. I was hoping to have a conversation with that during 10.01, which is the next meeting agenda items, it's kind of planning out the next two meetings because they do fall right around the holidays. Right around the holidays, yeah, that fourth, because we do the fourth Tuesdays, maybe we move them to the third if people's schedules allow. So the excited delirium working on just eradicating that phrase in Burlington, and I'd also like to have the fire chief attend one of our meetings because it does involve that branch of public safety when we have our EMTs, paramedics involved in when this quote unquote diagnosis, and I use that term very loosely, is made and then it requires people to be medicated and that leads to using certain drugs that really shouldn't be used outside of certain approved medical situations. And we've seen nationally more and more lawsuits and we've also seen charges brought against EMTs for their participation in a particular incident. So I think that these are things that we need to discuss and I don't wanna see that just put on the back burner. I'd like to be moving ahead with examining that topic. Thank you. Thank you for that. So what is the topic for December? Oh, we're not having a December meeting. We're postponing that for a year. Oh, no, no, I didn't get that far yet. I believe Milo's hoping that we add excited delirium to December. Conversation on that and. Yes, but if we're not gonna have a December meeting, I would want it on November. I don't want it to wait until next year. I feel that given a recent, rather severe use of force incident that use that term that involved medication. I just think that that needs to be a priority because our city can do better. Thank you. Can I ask another question? Absolutely. So if we move, if we end up moving excited delirium to November, that's gonna be a huge topic in and of itself. Do we then wanna move the policy stuff to January? Otherwise, we're gonna be here for five hours. Yeah, well, and we already have de-escalation listed, so we might wanna bump de-escalation too, correct?  Actually, I sent to all of you the work plans in your email. Yeah. So I'm trying to keep track of what we're talking about and keep it clear. Yeah. So, sorry. No, thank you, my guest. So I'm looking at the work plan also. And you may all recall, we sketched out some ideas, and one of them was to look at de-escalation. I think what we've been thinking about is an educational component to every meeting, and potentially that could be a half hour. My thinking is the following, that we put down policies 02 and 03 for discussion in November and excited delirium if something needs to be bumped to the next meeting, then we can do that. If there's enough time, fine. But I think that we might wanna put them both down. I also think if we have a meeting in December, then we don't need to do that. And we could do excited delirium in December. So in any case, what I see for November right now is the maybe half hour discussion of de-escalation and then the policy discussion or excited delirium. So those are the only two things I see so far and maybe what we can do is sketch out some other things and then figure out how to organize it once we have some other, the other topics on the table that we need to discuss. I did also have the BBC communication protocol, but that's not a pressing issue, so I'm happy to table that and to get these more urgent matters through first. Can I clarify once again? So Stephanie, you're suggesting we do the two policy issues, excited delirium and de-escalation? Yeah, right. I just to say that I think the excited delirium is an important topic. That said, I think one of the things that was clarified at the last meeting is that the state level use of force policy, they've deleted reference to that and that now, as I understand it, becomes the framework for us. So I think maybe on an educational level, it's important to talk about it, but in some ways it's a moot point at this point. Would that be fair to say, Chief Neurin? That is correct. But I think it does mean that we do have to talk about how to then revise our use of force policy and to make it aligned with the state's policy. We can't revise our use of force policy. The state's policy is our use of force policy. I got it, okay. So the state's policy is now our use of force policy. So they've removed that term. Yes. So that means that that's not a term that our department can use anymore. And just for clarifying question, when did the state policy go into effect? October 1st. Right, October 1st. Thank you. Is that correct, sir? It's not a term that's in the policy. So it's not a term that, I don't believe that we have used it. I think that- You have, that's how it came up. It was used in a- I believe that it was in the firefighter report. It was not in the police report. It was used in our use of force reports. It was in the use of force policy, that's correct. But I believe that in- It became known to us when it was used in the use of force reports that were presented to the commission. There was, I can't remember the month, but there was one month where it was used under two summaries. I believe that was from our August meeting with reference to instance that happened in July. Does that also hold for the fire department, you know? What, does what- They don't have a use of force policy. Firefighters aren't allowed to use force. No, not use of force, but excited delirium. Is that, is this just a police, a state police? No, no, it's, it's not a state police or a police, it is a, it's a term used by the American College of Emergency Room Physicians. So it is, it's a medically accepted term by the American College of Emergency Room Physicians. And because emergency room physicians are the primary point of contact and authorizers for what fire does, it is a term that firefighters across and EMTs across the country do use. It is a component of their academic and professional and medical terminology. So it, in fact, by other major medical and psychiatric associations, it is not an accepted term. It is a very controversial term. Nationally is a source of numerous lawsuits and it has very large racial disparities when used in incidents that involve use of force. It's not something that we want in our city. We can do better. So I, I guess I do want to have the fire chief come and talk to us. I know we're not the fire department's commission, but because the two departments do have to work together sometimes, I think it's, it's important that they, they have an understanding. They really think about it, especially when it's used in combination to medicating someone, right? That's really, really serious. And then leading to the use of, you know, we have a controversial diagnosis, which then leads to the use of a drug that does have legitimate uses in certain medical environments being used inappropriately and certain use of force incidents. I think that it's, it's something that Bear is discussing and I think it's something that we can improve on as a city. It's not something that we have to do. And I just think that's really important because I think we could find ourselves in the same situation as some of these other communities are in where people are getting severely hurt, where people, God forbid, they are dying and where there's lawsuits and where there's charges being brought. These cases are unfortunately not decreasing and why should we have our city and our people who work in public safety put themselves in that particular position? May I understand your concern? And I think then the question becomes one of institutionally whose responsibility, and I think what a useful thing to do would be to communicate with the chair of the public safety committee because they also oversee the fire department. I'm just gonna ask them to take this on. Harry, I'm back to organization. So does that mean Excited Delirium comes off the agenda for the next meeting? Thank you. Okay. I think we're working through that right now. And my second question is, who's responsible for de-escalation? Can we finish the Excited Delirium first and then we can get on to that? So Commissioner Grant, how would you feel about that? Having that conversation with the chair of public safety to ask if they would take it on? I would feel comfortable with that. I'd still like to invite the fire chief to our meeting because I think it's important to hash that out. I, you know, if the AMA is not going to accept it and what is the other, the psychiatry, the World Health Organization doesn't accept it, there's just a lot more medical associations and health organizations that do not accept it and recognize the vast racial disparities that this term is associated with. I just, I think we have to deal with that. Thank you. I guess I have a question. Seeing how the state's force policy has omitted that and the incidents that we're referring to and the ones that came up in these force report that came out a couple of months ago, predates that moving forward with this not be a term used when describing uses of force. It's no longer a term that's gonna be in the directive to sort of lean on. So I think that it depends on, I think officers are more likely to describe the various symptoms that are components of that phenomena.  And I think it's, that's the main point. Thank you. Turning to the scene of the crime, no pun intended. My understanding right now is we're not gonna be talking about excited delirium at the next meeting. And the other thing we have on here is de-escalation and who's gonna be responsible for that piece? I can, I mean I'm just volunteering but it doesn't have to be me. If anyone else is, you know, would prefer to but otherwise I'm happy to do it. Well I'll take you when you're volunteer, I'm gonna volunteer for that, thank you. Chief, I'll be contacting you because I think that's gonna be largely departmental. And how much time do you wanna devote to this? Do we want 30 to 45 minutes, half hour? I think 30 to 45 is a safe ask. If anyone has thoughts, please send them to me sooner than later so I can consider them and putting it together. Just one thought is that I think, you know, you might wanna contact the Vermont Police Academy and I can give you the name of the new head of the police academy to learn from them about what they train on, it's a great de-escalation. And I'd be interested to know after that, you know, what's the continuing education here in the same area? And what have been some significant shifts if any in the policy across time? Thank you. Thank you. All right, any further questions or comments on that agenda item? Moving on. Actually, do you mind? I'm sorry, I feel like we're gonna need to close the loop on this discussion with regard to escalated delirium. I'm trying to find a way to make everybody feel satisfied about this. And, you know, I guess what I wanna propose is sort of a compromise and that is that that we have a discussion with public safety about bringing the fire department to public safety and which we could attend as commissioners certainly and the discussion would happen there because they are the ones that are responsible for the fire department. And even if we learned about it here, there's nothing we could do, we wanted to. So I think that would be the most effective place to do it. And I hear you that it, you know, is something we wanna talk about in more detail. Would that work? I think that would work. So when we have our request in with the public safety committee about following up with CNA, maybe we say, these are the two things we need to discuss. Point of information, the fire department has a fire commission. Okay, thank you. Yeah, we had talked about public safety, police commission and fire commission becoming more united. Just to clarify, commissioner Grant, are you following up with public safety on the two issues you? I was gonna follow up with public safety to schedule a joint committee meeting for the CNA. With that being said, I'm happy to loop this in. Yes, please, thank you. Did I just provide, I talked to commissioner, councilor Hightower today about this issue about, because the city council resolution a week or two ago, did identify, was clear that the joint committee should meet about the, and within a couple of months come back with some ideas on how to respond to the recommendations. And what commissioner, councilor Hightower said is that there'd be one initial meeting with the joint committee, but the resolution was amended so that it would be the public safety committee with a couple of police commissioners appointed to work with them on reviewing the report. So that was, so I understand that she's gonna be acting on that and it certainly wouldn't hurt to also contact her to make sure that gets scheduled. Do we know why that change was made? I think the idea was that the joint committee, I think all of us felt was pretty, was cumbersome with 11 people. And so this kind of condenses it to a working group that's manageable. No further questions or comments. I will close that agenda item. Moving on, I'm terribly sorry, we amended the agenda and I am not recalling on the second thing we're gonna bring up. Sheriff, I may, it's the preliminary discussion on the hiring resolution. Yes, thank you. Sorry, for everyone in the public, I'm just pulling up this email. So pretty much in light of the city council's approval of raising the office of capital 79, that's excluding officers assigned to the airport. And in view of the significant research showing that racial disparities needs to force decline, the creator of the racial diversity of the police force. This was a resolution that Stephanie drafted and I'll read it verbatim, sorry. You and Suzie, I understood that you and Suzie were sponsoring this. I mean, you wrote it, I mean, obviously, I would kind of follow those more like city council term, like the thing that's sponsored. Anywho, it's something that I do support and I'm just gonna read the motion verbatim and we are not voting on this now just to have a good discussion about it and it'll put this on an agenda for next week. Be resolved that the Burlington Police Commission recommends that the BPD work to ensure that affirmative recruitment strategy that yields a racially diverse pool of applicants and hires. It is further recommended that BPD set a goal for 20% non-white applicants and hires. To this end, the commission recommends that the BPD working with the commission, assemble a group of community advisors to participate in the networking effort to assure a diverse set of applicants. That group should include people with experience in affirmative recruitment and networking. We recommend this advisory committee to be established by November 15th, 2021. The commission requests that the BPD include community members with affirmative recruitment experience and hiring committees, sorry, experience on hiring committees. The commission requests that the BPD report to the commission on the racial and gender composition of applicant pools, interviews and hires on a monthly basis until newly created slots are filled and that the commission requests they were in response to the recommendations on the steps that the BPD will take to ensure racial diversity in its new hires. With regard to the recommendation about forming a community members to help, this stems from a lot of work that has been done on recruitment to ensure diverse racial pools and it is clear that, first of all, I appreciate the idea of a recruitment officer. I think that's really essential, but it's not sufficient in this, let me put it this way, that a great deal can be gained by leveraging the networks of the community of color. And one of the things that we know from doing this work in any institution in the school district, at the university or wherever is that it really requires building a relationship and networking that people tend to have trust in applying to a particular community if they have a personal connection with people that reaches out to them. In other words, people don't frequently blindly apply to a job where they don't know anybody or know anybody in the community and I think especially with regards to race, people of color have concerns about being treated fairly and so having, being able to leverage a network to make contacts and to develop some trust about the climate here would be very effective. So in addition to a recruitment officer, I think this would be very, very helpful and these can be vast networks. We have a number of members of the community, far beyond AALV, which certainly would be helpful with the refugee community, but there are of course many other organizations of color now in Vermont that have a wide reach. And just to add what Stephanie just said, I would think Chief, it's important that you actually take time to go and to have a meeting with community leaders and communities when the events are happening and I don't mean like your office is going, I mean like you yourself going and building relationship with like community leaders because just going through AALV is not enough. That's a good start. Perhaps like start there and trying to figure out the community leaders and when there's community event happening, then you go and you show that and I think that's a way to build a relationship for the, being on for the people. Awesome, so I emailed the language of that resolution to the commission. I'll be sending that to Shannon as well too and we'll have that posted on board docs and it is my hope that we vote on that before that grievance hearing. That'll be the only thing on the agenda other than executive session for that. So yeah, any feedback or comments with that? I'd direct that towards Stephanie and then we'll post that to board docs and vote at the next meeting. I think it's an incredibly important idea that we need to move on as a community. It's very, very important. If we're really gonna reimagine community policing, we have to reimagine and we have to develop the kind of networks that you're talking about. I know UVM has done a lot of that. A lot of that has happened in the Burlington School District and we have a lot of understanding and knowledge of how to make our rich pool and I think we need to extend that into this community in this setting as well. Thank you for supporting that. You're speaking about the meeting on Monday then, the special meeting? Correct. Just a quick point of information for the commission like we talked about for the Mental Health Summit resolution because the commission is not a city council committee just as a reminder, when we move to a vote at the next meeting, the vote is just for the commission to agree that the commission as a whole supports and ratifies the statement but it will need sponsorship from a city councilor or from a city council committee. So the next step in the process would be to seek out a sponsor and so a vote to ratify and support the statement won't automatically move it to the next step of putting it before the city council. The sponsorship is the next piece. This doesn't need to be put before the city council. This is us doing our work as a civilian oversight body to advise the police department. So this is exactly what this communication is meant to do. It doesn't need the authority of the city council to do that. Okay, I'm sorry maybe I was misunderstanding the commission's purpose then. I think it's perhaps the use of the term resolution which is normally a special term that's used by the city council but if this is just intended to be a statement joint statement of the entire commission then it's perfectly fine to just adopt it, ratify it and leave it as a statement of the commission. I think we could call it a motion. Would that be more consistent with what you're thinking about? I think so or just a ratified adopted statement of the commission that everyone agrees collectively to stand behind. So if you could call it a statement you could call it a motion. Generally implies that you're putting it before some public body or judicial body to take a particular action. I understand it's a call to action for the police department and for the community generally but typically we don't use the term motion.  I just, when I heard the term resolution because it is traditionally a city council term I thought that's where the commission was heading. So thank you for the clarification. Thank you. All right then, moving on. I believe that concludes the amended agenda. Zero five, discuss complaint or review the complaint policy. Sorry. Thank you. All right then, I'll get before you. So I just wanted to take the time for us to talk publicly that we have a complaint policy that was adopted last year and we have been reviewing complaints and I think there's a sense that it would be an opportune time to revise that policy based on our experience. And so I think it would be useful to set up a timeline and a process for doing that. I think once again, getting some input from Nicole on the current policy also in light of the CNA report in terms of the delays in responding to complaints. We have a complaint now that has been here for six months and the policy has been violated in the delays that is taken to do that. And so I think we need some robustness with regard to ensuring that we respond in a timely manner. And so that's my sort of broader point is that if we can develop a timeline and a process for reviewing, revising this policy and just to say that I think that given that the city council passed a resolution that expands the authority of the police commission, we may be revising it again. But that may take time for that to go through the ordinance process. And so I think it behooves us, given what we've learned from the complaints to work on an initial set of revisions in a variety of areas that we've seen the policy be inadequate. So I maybe would suggest if it's okay that Chair Gavash maybe identify a couple of commissioners to seek feedback from other commissioners on what changes need to be made and just work on that process and getting input. And then we can put it on the agenda, hopefully at the December meeting. I just wanna make a quick speak to that, sorry. Yeah, I can work on it with someone, it's fine. I'm happy to take the lead and run it by folks, whatever you prefer. I'm also more than happy to help you with that too. So we'll be chatting. But I guess to answer your question on the timeline moving forward. December has complaints on it as an agenda item if we meet then. It's a different aspect of it, but it certainly would be appropriate. So I think aiming to have a draft for public review and dissemination for December if we meet is appropriate. Is there a time certain on the agenda when we're gonna talk about December? Or is it okay to talk about it now or I don't know how that works? I mean, just a quick point of information. You have your other business at 10.01 next meeting agenda items. So I think that would be the appropriate time to discuss December items. So are we, if we look at when these, I'm just going to calendar, would we want to do, so there's five Tuesdays in November. Would we want to do the 16th or the 30th? I would hate to do the week of Thanksgiving. Yeah, I'd say either the 16th or the 30th. Sorry, point of information. This is for November's meeting. Is that correct? Yes. Okay, just for your information, I will be out from the 19th of November through to December 1st, not that that has ever stopped a meeting from happening before, but just so that you know. Not that thank you. We need you, Shannon. There's one argument for the 16th. Yeah, that just took away my, we should meet on the 30th. By all means. Either one works for me. So maybe we're bumping it the 16th of November and the 14th of December. Does that make sense for folks? So we steer clear of holidays. I mean, actually, I don't know if that's true. That was, I don't know if we're steering clear of holidays on the 14th. I think I would, I think that would work. I have no problem with the 16th. I just wonder if you're gonna have, I'm supposed to speak on de-escalation. Would more time be better for them to get their ducks in the row for that? Chief, if we were to have it November 16th, do you think that gives you and me time to get the de-escalation? It's 30 to 45 minutes. The de-escalation, I'm sorry, absolutely. Commissioner, de-escalation is something that we can, we have plenty of things about what the academy does, not a lot, what we do, a lot. And with regard to ICAT, it's essentially, we can absolutely deliver that to you. We could probably even, might be able to get you in for an ICAT training, depending on how much time you have. But we definitely, definitely can make that happen. Okay, so you and I should follow up when you have time, sooner than later. Thank you. Yes, commissioner. I will do my best to get my part done by then. Yeah, that's the pressure we're putting on. And if I can do it, I'll do it if I can, I can't as well. Right, right, because that is, that's taking a couple of weeks away from you. All right, thank you. I feel we kind of jumped ahead there to 10.01. Need to jump back to 7.01, that's the first incident report was posted on BoardDocs. I believe we all had a chance to review it and if there's any questions with regards to incidents on there that you want to bring up now would be the time. One incident that I thought I could request footage, but I can ask for that in executive session, one of the incidents, and then if it could just go to everyone, there's no reason for me to just have it. But I can, I'll pull it up during the meeting, executive session. I had a question about incident number 14. I'd like to ask if we could have the video on that. Whenever you're ready, I'll tell you the question. You ready? Okay, so about six or seven lines down, it says the arrestee became aggressive towards the officers and impeded their actions and removing the license plates. Can you describe what the aggressive activity was? He was pacing back and forth showing signs that he wanted to fight. There's language in there that you hear on the video that I didn't include that he was saying towards the two female officers. And he had a dog in the back seat of the car. He kept walking back towards the rear door of the car. They were concerned about the dog and not knowing if the dog was aggressive or not. So that was the reason for taking him into custody? Yeah, they were trying. At that point, they were gonna give him a citation. The plates did not belong in the car. So they were trying to take the plates off the car. Yeah. So I guess, again, I'll just be, if I could be perhaps more explicit. I mean, this is one of the issues around racial disparities is that behavior is often interpreted differently. And so I interested when there's a discussion around disorderly conduct or aggression, which may be perceived differently depending upon the race. So I'd like to request that we all be given access to that video. And the other one would be number three is the one I was referencing. All right, I've printed off the directives, but I left my copy of. We can send you. No, I've got it. You can get it on this phone. I've got it on my phone. It just takes a second. Okay. And then my older eyes take one. So three is similar in the picture. It would just be good to see the footage on that one. Sorry, I'm not talking into the mic. Of course, we can share those with you. So that's three, and I'm sorry, which number? 14. 14. DC Sullivan. Thank you. All right, moving on then to agenda item 8.01, which is a commendation to receive for September. I'm with Attica, Florida, Shannon. So we did receive, let's just three, Detective Bellevue was one of them. And two others received a handwritten cards from someone that was an orphan at St. Joseph's and was thanking them for the work that they have done and to bringing light to the situation there. And the other one that I have to share is someone wrote in to express their thanks, saying that a car was stolen from their parking garage and within 48 hours, BPD officers had located the car and apprehended the subject. Many thanks, many thanks, our residents were relieved to know that the car was found and the owner was greatly appreciated. Just as a point of quick information, I'm sorry. I wish I'd said it when Sergeant Bellevue was here. He was a detective during the investigation into the orphanage and the work that he did on that was extraordinary. He is an incredibly emotionally available caring officer. He did long interviews with people who had been affected by that orphanage. And he participated in talking circles and healing endeavors with the folks that were brought in to do restorative justice. Since ultimately we determined that in our opinion we had probable cause for crimes that were unfortunately bound by the statute of limitations not to be enforceable. The only crime that was not bound by the statute of limitations and those statutes have since been amended by the state in part because of this investigation. But the only crime that was not bound by statute was murder and there was no evidence that we could find for that. But we found abundant evidence of other kinds of crimes for which we felt we had probable cause should there have been other kinds of, should those limitations not have existed. And he did a huge amount of work with others as well. Detective Cradaville, Detective Commander Trebe did a lot of work on that. Detective Wren, but then Detective Bellevue was really instrumental to that. I just wanted to give him his due. Thank you. Awesome, thank you for that. Moves us to agenda item 9.01, commissioner updates or comments. At this point, anything you want to say? Bring it up. I sent you some information by email tonight about a local Facebook site that brings up issues around trauma on a regular basis. They have some really good articles there so I'm letting you know that was there. Thank you for that. Just a quick thought, I was just processing the discussion we had about trauma tonight which I thought was really helpful and I'm actually thinking that might be, I think we would want to follow up on that whether it's with the chief to talk about trauma training or what we might do is trauma training ourselves and so forth. And it may also be useful for us to when the mental health summit happens to ensure that this is a component of the discussion. And I think just in our memory, we can remember to do that but maybe what we can do is put it down for an agenda item to think about how we ourselves would address the issue of trauma training for the commission. There's a lot I realized going on and maybe December or January meeting. I think if it gets too far out, we will have forgotten. So I think we'd want to do it sooner rather than later. Maybe even at the November meeting especially if policies might not be ready then maybe just a 15 minute discussion in November. Thank you. I'm gonna float something. I'm just floating everyone's appetite for a really long session tonight versus going Tuesday of next week because we had reserved Monday and Tuesday, Monday for the hearing. I don't know how folks feel. I don't know how the department's availability but we were trying not to get this late to talk about very important things in an executive session. So I'm just gauging folks' appetites to keep going tonight or to go into Tuesday at six for executive session. There were several items we wanted to talk about amongst ourselves as commissioners and maybe we could do that for a half hour, keep it kind of condensed and then carry over the other issue, any other items for executive session until Monday and Tuesday. Do we have a folks' view? Yes, please. Okay. I have no objections. I was gonna have one question I guess for maybe this was for our city attorney Haley. Would we just recess this meeting until, or do we want to jump in a whole new executive session meeting later for Monday, Tuesday? Should we just adjourn this meeting? Well, actually, no. We still wanted to enter executive session for a half hour or two to discuss complaints, I guess at the conclusion of that. Would we just ask for a recess then? So we can just jump right back into executive session on Tuesday or? We used to, like if we went into executive session we would announce that there would be no additional open meeting items after the executive session. So that people would know the open part was done. Can we still do that? Yeah, I think that's absolutely acceptable. So if the commission wants to go into executive session this evening have, you know, I guess a partial discussion of what may have been planned. I think that's totally permissible. I would just suggest at the end of executive session, you know, you can certainly before you all enter let everybody, any members of the public know there'll be no more substantive discussion tonight at the conclusion of the executive session discussion. Just, you know, have a move to reenter the public portion of the meeting, have a quick motion to adjourn. And I would say just warn, you know, in compliance with open meeting laws just warn a new executive session for a meeting next week at the council's choosing or at the commission's choosing. I don't think it has to be more complicated than that. You don't need to recess the executive session. I think you can just publicly warn that as a meeting item for an upcoming meeting. Thank you. Does that work for the chief and the deputy chiefs for Tuesday night to, you know, to have the discussion about complaints and status and? I don't see an objection to that. Am I correct in saying that we have a different meeting on Monday? Is that correct? Monday is the hearing. So we have another meeting on Monday. And that hasn't been popped out yet, right? No, I don't know anything about it. Okay, so I believe there's a different meeting on Monday having our portion of this executive session conducted on Tuesday, I find that I don't find a problem with that. I don't know if... Hey, deputy chief Sullivan, can you be there? I believe so. Okay, because we haven't caught up. We haven't really had time. Well, we did a really brief one last month, but we do need to catch up on some of the cases. So if folks don't mind, I think we just need fresh brains for the discussion. I have no objections. Great. Thank you. All right, then, moves on to agenda item 10.01, which is next meeting agenda items. We already, I think, agreed on the 16th of November for our next regularly scheduled November meeting with regards to December, the fourth Tuesday is the 28th. A few objections to that. I would love to see us do it earlier in December. I thought that Commissioner Hart had suggested the 14th of December. Oh, the 14th, okay. I have no problem with that. I was gonna say I cannot do the 21st. I won't be in town the week leading in the Christmas, but I am here afterwards. Yeah, that would keep us clear of Christmas in New Year's. Yep. I think as long as we just check that for any holidays, right, before we, just to make sure there aren't. All right, so I guess, so definitively November for the 16th, and tentatively the 14th of December for December. I'd like to, I just don't know. Yeah. I'll reach out to the chiefs and the department to make sure the 14th is okay with everybody. I'm out of week or two. All good. Awesome. With that, then, I motion that we enter executive session per one VSA 3.13, A4, and B. Sorry, Haley, if I butchered that, but I think that was the provision to enter. Yep, I think that's great. I might just state your general purpose for entering executive session, for example, to discuss disciplinary actions or for some other reason, but I would just briefly state why you're going into executive session, generally. Yeah, and we'll be entering the discussion to discuss disciplinary actions and or complaints. Seconded. Seconded by commissioner Hart. All in favor, raise your hand to say aye. Aye. That passes unanimously. It is 9.40 p.m. Tuesday the 26th, 2021. And I say we reconvene in, so let's say 9.47 so we can all use the bathroom. And I'll meet, see everybody downstairs in the Sharon Busher conference room. And yeah, everyone in the public that joined in, thank you very much. At the conclusion of their session, we'll be taking no votes and we'll be done. So everyone have a great night and we'll see you soon. Thank you.