Who was the greatest person you've worked with, like athlete-wise or artist-wise? I have, I mean, it's MJ. And I was like, I'll never wash this shirt again. I'll keep it in forever. Black folks, people of color, we always worried about selling out. Now why wouldn't we just sell out? I'm not selling out. I am choosing to buy in. So they admitted me. Thank God they did because that day I slipped into what they call a conscious coma. The reality of leading as a black woman in a male-dominated, still male-dominated industry, that brings its own set of complexities. I need you to introduce yourself, tell the world who you would like to be known as, and then, you know, I didn't want a couple of things you've done in the past before or what you're working on now. For sure. Hello, everyone. My name is Dominique Devenham, born and raised in the beautiful Portland, Oregon, city of roses. I've been in the sneaker industry, wow, since 2010 and I've had the opportunity to work on some super dope projects. So to name a few, work with Big Sean, work with Tiana Taylor, hit Air Max 97s, was able to do a yo-yo-inspired Air Max deluxe, which I think you were able to get in on. What else have we worked on? So many things. Herachi, like you name it, in the women's space, I've been able to touch a ton of products. So it's been good. All footwear related, and it's all about giving stories and making sure the streets have what they need. That's what's up. Oh yeah, what are you doing currently right now? Currently right now, I'm working focusing on training products, so shoes that you're actually supposed to wear in the gym to work out. Have to explain that to people. And then second to that as well, but equal tennis related products. So products that you actually wear on the tennis court when you're competing or getting ready for a match. Okay, dope. So I like to kick it back to that grade school era. I want you to paint the picture for me. Give me the years, give me the time, give me the vibe, what were people wearing, how was your environment at home? What did you know about finances and where did you have your relationship with sneakers like at that point in time in life? Wow, great question. So for me, middle school, grade school was, I graduated grade school, I'm gonna say 1990, shoot eight? I don't even remember when I graduated. All right, I'm like, what? But I'll talk to you about middle school because middle school was actually when I started to understand finances to your point. That's when I started to love and understand sneakers. And that was 98 to about 2000. So I guess it would have been 97 to 2000. Anyway, that was the moment where I started playing basketball. So grade school for me coming up is all about dance. It was all about swimming. I was an avid swimmer. We danced, we did those types of things. And then in middle school, that's when I discovered my love of basketball. And that was the intersection of culture. So you can think about that time period. Lauryn Hill had the miseducation that came out. Destiny's Child was booming. Aliyah still was pumping. So that was kind of my intersection to culture and sneakers at the same time. And obviously basketball being a key kind of corollary that brought me to sneakers. But what I understood is that growing up in my home, we didn't have the money for me to have lunch money and for me to get every sneaker drop and for us to keep the lights on. So I started to use my lunch money and save it to buy the sneakers that I wanted. The other thing that was really heavy at the time was the shoe cleaner. So the little white paste that you would put on your shoes to make sure that they kind of still looks new. Even though- Like the one for a full locker? Yeah, you can get them a full locker. The little pack. So I was heavy into that because you can get that for like $10 and I would just keep my shoes clean. So everybody thought in middle school that I had more shoes than I did because they were just clean. And I would make sure that they were clean and then you would kind of put at the sock at the time. Remember, you will fold your socks back up over the top of your toe. It'll be like a tube sock and you'll roll it or you'll pull it down to your ankle. So it'd be like an ankle sock now. And you take the toe, you flip it over the top of the foot. All my, I don't know, 80s, 90s babies, you guys are sure all remember that time. Oh, that was a percent. And then that would keep the toe box crisp. So you wouldn't have that line down the middle. So- Get rid of the creases. Yeah, get rid of the creases. That was before force fields or actually a product that you can get nowadays. But that's what we would do in middle school. That's what I would do. And so really like I got shoes at the beginning of the school year. My birthday's in November. So I would always ask for shoes then. And then really it was like keep them clean.  So basketball. And then this is the real, this is the gotcha, gotcha, the unlock. Right? Like you would do SEI girls basketball camp. Okay. Well, tell them SEI is cool. That's a good call. So for those that don't know who are not Portland natives, SEI stands for self enhancement EEC. Self enhancement EEC is a community center here in Portland, Oregon. And really the goal is to support you in your extracurricular activities from kind of second grade. And they follow you all the way through high school. So they do a basketball camp every summer. There's the pull up. You all right? Middle school camp, a high school camp, two for females and then two for males. So I always went to the SEI girls basketball camp. And they gave out at the end of the week, it's a week long camp, a pair of Nike sneakers. And people would literally go to the camp because they knew about the shoes and they're just trying to stick around, not getting in trouble, Nike kicked out the camp just so they could get the free shoes.  And that's where a lot of people got in trouble. Yes. And then when you got in trouble there, I was like, Brad, you gotta go get the shoes.  So that was another way in which I got shoes into the rotation. But during that was middle school time, that time period before I was able to work, growing up in a single parent family home and my mom being an entrepreneur, we didn't have just disposable income to be spending on shoes every time there was a drop. I was fortunate enough that I could get the things that I really, really wanted. And then learning the value of a dollar of money of what it takes to work for something, save that money up, I would get $20 a week. So saving up $20 a week to get a $100 pair of sneakers. Is that really what I wanna do? Or how long does it take me to get to $100 to buy some sneakers? So you learned or I learned very early on like the value of trade-offs.  I wasn't, we weren't qualified for free lunch. So I was gonna have to buy lunch then and then I wouldn't have money for sneakers. So that's kind of how I started to learn responsibility as it related to finances. And then this idea of sacrifice to get what you want. And it was a fun time. It was also a time period where for women, sneakers weren't a real thing. So there was no external pressure to feel like, oh, I have to have this. I have to have the latest and the greatest. It was literally my love and passion for culture that drove me to sneakers. So there also was just kind of this relaxed energy that I stepped into it with where it was like, if I get them great, if I don't get them, there's no kind of extra added like, oh, you took an L like now, you took an L on sneakers. That didn't exist. It was kind of like, you didn't have them. I get it. Yeah.  I was on going to high school, but where you want to take it? Oh, I was just gonna say, yeah, I was just thinking about the concept, but I also wanted to let you know, you're the first lady that's on the show. Oh, wow. So I feel like, to me, it makes sense. I'm glad that you're on here because you helped me a lot when I was in my younger days coming out of high school, which we'll talk about your high school times, but I appreciate you. Of course, I appreciate you. And I always want to give you a flowers however I can. Yes, thank you. I'm excited to have you on. I'm excited to learn more about you as well. And I'm interested too about the high school era and your concept of like, where you want to go in life, learning that. Because for me, it was like sports.  So was it kind of like that same lane when you was basketball player or what? Like, I forgot to ask you too, was you actually a good baller or what? Well, listen, D-Day, I'm five foot now. I was five foot in middle school and five foot throughout high school. So in terms of nice, I could get you the ball.  So as I got older, the game kind of grew without me. So I had to let it go at some point. I still stayed close to it. Still do stay close to the game, but definitely retired in junior year in high school. Okay, so you're still getting buckets on campus then. Every now and again, just with the shoot around, while you buy yourself and you can take a couple air balls in. Okay, so take me to the high school era. For sure. In that time, like coming in. Because for me, it was like watching, remember what was the Nick Cannon movie where they had the Air Force ones around their neck and they was on the beach? Was it Love Don't Cross the Thames? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this was like my impression of like, what is going to be like going into high school? We got like Stomp the Yard, all these different movies coming out in my era. And I'm like, bro, is this what it's gonna be like? I gotta be prepared, this is gonna be crazy. What did it feel like for you? Nah, so just the way Portland is laid out. So you know, it's kind of like PIL schools in every elementary school, middle school, and high school, so I went to the elementary schools and the middle schools that didn't necessarily feed into the high school that I went to. So I went to Alameda Elementary School, Beaumont Middle School, which should have fed into Grant. I went to Jefferson for high school. So when I stepped into high school, I didn't know a lot of people. I didn't grow up with a lot of the folks that were there. I may have seen them off chance through self-enhancing ink or somewhere. So I didn't have a ton of friends stepping into my freshman year at Jeff. So in 2000, Jeff Boyce team won state. Right, I remember that's when they had the Laney Fives and everything. Yes, they had the Laney Fives. So you're going into kind of my expectation. Like I'm this five foot freshman stepping into the Jefferson High School. The Boyce basketball team just won. They looked so dope on court. They were in the Laney Fives. So I'm just like walking in, like feeling like a fish out of water. Right, right, right.  What is this going to be? So prior to school starting, my family and I, we took a trip down to LA. It's a family trip that was our summer trip. And I got the Jordan Ones, the Navy Blue with the Silver Swoosh and the team had numbered them. So I had the grade school size run. So it was, they made 4,000 and I happened to get one of 4,000. I, again, like I was, I love sneakers just cause I love sport, but I wasn't into sneaker culture. I didn't know all the rules, right? I just got them cause I'm like, I'm going to Jefferson. They're wearing Jordans. I need to get a colorway that's going to match my school. So first day of school, I wore full head to toe outfit from Lady Footlocker. No, I didn't. Yo, what happened to Lady Footlocker? Is that even a thing anymore?  I mean, I had, I had a case with shoes on, pristine, clean white, like, case with classics. It wasn't the egregious guy. It was the case with classics. So I still was in there and it was your typical first day of school. Like again, no, no, nothing to talk about. So the next day I wear these Jordan ones step into school and immediately it's like, oh my gosh, like you have those one it still wasn't super popular for females to be wearing Jordans yet. So it's kind of like, you know, that garnered a lot of attention and then people start asking me like, what number do you have? I think they're asking me like, what size? I'm like, five and a half, six. You're like, no, what?  And it turns out I have one of 4,000. So this is like in the morning. So rumors have spread. I don't know this, but it's like going around the school. This freshman girl has one of 4,000. Are you popping? Yes, it's a whole thing. And I didn't know Jefferson had a click that was called Team Jordan. So remember the Jordan's used to come with the Jumpman charm. So all the people that was a part of Team Jordan wore the chain with the Jumpman logo charm. They didn't put that on the kids product. So anyway, so everybody circling around in the Team Jordan, which was all the boys basketball team, they were like, who is this girl? Who? Where is she? So people start coming up. Is it you got the let me see.  It's not a lie. It's one of 4,000. And I still have these shoes. So that became a thing.  And I'm like, what? Like, what is this? Then they're like, well, you do you have the train? Like your shoes came with the Jumpman logo. And I'm like, no, mine didn't. So then I forget, I think it was Marcus Smith. He gave me one of his. So then I had the chain and I was official. I was the first lady of Team Jordan. So that was like my introduction into high school in this culture. These people that I didn't grow up with. But instantly it was like sneaker culture connected us and really like to answer the second party of question. That was really what led me to be like, I want to do this. I want to be a part of this because instantaneously, the connection and the love that we have for this product, for this brand Nike Jordan galvanized us in where I was coming in with some anxiety of like, how am I going to make friends in this new environment? Am I going to know anybody? It alleviated all of that.  And it happened literally again, first day of school to that Wednesday. Now I'm a part of this community. I have a couple long to a click, like all of these different things. And all of those guys, they really taught me to the game. But like, shoes drop on this day, you got to go to the employees store to get them. Which was the plug, that's what I remember. So you were in high school. When that we had that crazy blizzard in the patent one. One was a black and gold UNC in Chicago. Yes, that was probably you was in high school at that time.  But I remember I was in middle school. I was early high school. Yeah, I remember when that came out. Yeah. And I had that because everybody got family ties to an idea somehow if you live in some way and it was like, yeah, I was driving at the ES and which is the employee store. And I'm like, I got to get these man. Like, I don't know what to do. And at that time they were like, what, fifty six bucks or something like that? Like sixty seven for kids and then they jumped to fifty first. They were fifty four and they jumped to sixty seven.  So I'm like, I need these in my life. And they have half off for the for the listeners, employee store.  So we're talking about half off. Right. So we're like, yeah, I got it. I remember that same time of that era of like going after the shoes. I guess I came up with like, I have she was like a virtually my aunt, but she's not technically not. But just family friend for a long time. So there was the ones that was always getting me shoes back in the day when I was a little kid. I remember that era of all those times. So you're learning the game of sneakers and how are you like navigating everything else like in school and kind of like figuring out what you want to do? Yeah, I was I was always a still I love learning in general. And so school, that type of structured environment. I've always thrived in it and I still do. So for me, the academic piece was I always I've always taken to it and I still do. So I graduated valedictorian of my class straight A's and I had the opportunity. So Jefferson High School had a magnet program in partnership with Portland State University and part of that magnet program was you would take these advanced courses and you would get college credit. So I just did it for that. Not knowing that part of that kind of sweet of classes was a marketing class. So in that class, we learned about marketing in general, just the power of marketing. I'm like, oh, wow, like I want to major in marketing. So that gave me that answer of like, I want to go to business school. This is like junior or senior? This is junior year. Junior. OK. I want to major in marketing. Oh, I should back up funny, funny story. So about my sophomore year, I'm writing with my dad and we have a very this is kind of our first adult conversation, if you will. He's picking me up from practice. Mind you, I only I don't live far from Jefferson. But anyway, we're writing home from practice and he's like, so what are you like? What's the long term goal with this basketball thing? Like how long are we playing around with this? Like he was asking in a very gentle way of letting me know, like, we need to be thinking broader. This is not going to get you as far. Like, OK, he was trying to gauge how far do you think this is going to get you? And if you think this is going to get you playing basketball super far, let me help add some different options into your psyche. So it was it was I understood what he was saying. Yeah. Well, what were you you were going to ask?  So how did you even I don't know, like, when did you guys did you have a relationship with your dad? Did you not? And then during that time in life, are you like, am I even listening to him? Like, do I care what he's saying? Like, I don't know. No, it's a good kind of dynamic in that conversation as well. Yes. So great question. So my parents split up when I was 13. OK. Before then, they officially divorced when I was 13, but there was a period of time where they were split up. So I'm used to responding to your point, like doing what my mom says. My mom is a primary caretaker of me and my brother. And my dad and I's relationship, he was he to be transparent. He came in and out. Yeah. So this was a time where he was in and he was going to give me advice. So for me, my response to him in that moment was kind of like, again, this is also just being 16. Like, I got this, like, I know what I'm doing in my life. Like, don't don't try to come in and give me advice. So I was very I wasn't receptive to it. I wasn't like, oh, thank you for it. It was more like I have this, like, we'll figure this out. Me and my mom, but he was right to kind of like tease that out and like make sure that I was thinking about other things rather than playing the game. So for me, then that became a part of like, OK, how can I parlay my love and passion for this into a career? Also, understanding about myself is my love and passion for this comes from both culture and sport. So I'd ever had necessarily aspirations of I want to be a coach or I want to be a scout or I want to be a statistician in for a sports team. It was like, how can I bridge sport and culture? So flashing back forward to taking that marketing class, it was like, OK, this is how brands or larger companies package messages to us consumers so that we receive them. So that felt authentic to what I naturally do and what I was naturally interested in. Then I had the opportunity because of Portland being in Nike's backyard to have take a trip to Nike, right? And at the time there, during that trip, I learned like, oh, this role called PLM, which stands for product line manager exists. Before then, I think that everybody who touches product is a designer. Right. And I learned in that moment like, no, there's a product line manager, which is the person who acts as the kind of liaison between what the consumer wants, what the brand is going to do and helps package that information for a designer. So you don't have to have the pin, but you have to be creative. You have to have the science part of it. And you have to have some foresight and vision. Yeah, I'm like, ah, like this is me. So I was fortunate enough in all of that to know, you know, my junior year in high school, like very specifically I want to major in marketing. I want to work at Nike and I want to be appealing. So that was my high school kind of mindset going through high school. And so everything I did, even from, you know, when I was a part of focus groups, then I would come to you and AJ and be like, OK, you guys come me come be a part of this, like building my own community. So anything that I was exposed to because of what I was passionate about, I tried to then give that away to the people who I knew had like-minded interests and sneakers and just kind of create, again, that community feel of like we're all in this together and we can call each other and support each other in this love. Like you remember how it used to be where it was like everybody jumps in one car to go out to the employee store and be pretend like who's going this morning? Let's all know like who's going to, you know, all of those different things. So it was really fun to be a part of that as it was very organic at the time. And it was very tangible. I feel like the game now has shifted to more of a digital space where it's not as tangible and so you don't get them necessarily the camaraderie that I felt when I first started it in sneakers right now. It's like, look at all the shock drops that's been on sneakers out this week alone, like all the stuff, holidays, you name it. It's like, yeah, that's cool. But it's like, you don't get to go out, meet the people, do the thing, like have as much fun in that time. So all right, for me, we still in high school. We got to wait before we get to college. For me, I had like one of my big struggles was like I was active in sports. And I tore my ACL my sophomore year and I'm like, there goes my dream. All the different things. Like I don't know what to do. I was struggling. I started struggling in school. So I didn't want to do that no more. Like I just had like my downturn and I got it back, you know? Did you have any of those like downturn moments during that time, even though you're, you know, valedictorian and doing all those things? Like what was your like struggle at times that you were getting through? Because I'm sure there's a lot of high schoolers listening to this as well. Absolutely. So I think health for me was a big thing in high school. My senior year, I got extremely sick. And when I say sick, not like cold sick, I'm talking about like auto immune sick. And there were a ton of tests that the doctors ran. Everything was in inconclusive.  All of these things were inconclusive, but I was achy. I was super cold. Yes, I am anemic, but they were like, OK, it's not the anemia that's causing this. It was like at some points like I would wake up and like my back would just be in knots locked up. I can't move. And again, at this point in my senior year, I'm not playing sports. So it's not because of physical activity that I'm doing that's causing this stress on my body. So what is it? So we're going to the doctor each time to try to figure out what's going on. And then my eyes started to kind of trip out where it's like my vision is being blurred in some points. My eyes are hurting. It's not necessarily a headache or migraine.  All of these different things that were happening at the time. So one morning is a Sunday. I wake up to get out of bed and I can't stand up. I'm like that week and not that I wasn't eating or anything. I do that week. So I crawl my room was next to our restroom. So I crawl to our restroom and then I'm like, OK, maybe I'm tripping like whatever. And then after I use the restroom, I'm trying to stand up again, still have no strength to stand up in my body. So then at that point, I call for my mom and my brother and I'm like, I can't stand up. I can't walk. I don't know what's going on. So it's at that moment that as an 18 year old, I'm young. I don't know what I don't know what's going on with my body. And you're thinking like this is over. Like I have no idea the doctors. And up until that point, I think we all have a very kind of Disney or naive view of the world. Right. So it's like when you're sick, you go to the doctor. They give you medicine, you get better. Right.  They may not have the answer. You may have to come back. You may have to deal with this. You may have to go see a specialist, all of these different things. So throughout all these doctor visits, I'm losing hope of like, OK, is this just what my life is going to be like? They thought I had sarcoidosis, which is an autoimmune disease that kind of attacks all your joints and your bones and your body. That's what Bernie Mac had.  And you're like, what is this? I mean, again, before that, I'm used to hearing I got the flu. I got cold. That's why. Yeah, like I broke my ankle. It's none of that. It's all these things that I don't really understand. So what ended up happening was we go to the hospital that Sunday and my mom's like, nope, we're not taking her back home. You all need to give us some answers, figure this out. And so she was able to advocate for me within the health care system. So they admitted me. Thank God they did because that day I slipped into what they call a conscious coma. And a conscious coma means today's partner is shopDNAshow.com. Are you tired of wearing low quality gear? I completely understand. I made a personal mission to go out and find higher quality stuff and give it to you guys at an affordable price. And not only because of that, I have to wear this stuff every day. And I don't want to be wearing cheap clothing all the time. So I want to make sure that you guys know about it and our understanding that we have a lot of cool stuff coming out as well. Hit the link down below or panned or wherever it may be. It's going to be shopDNAshow.com. There's new drops every single month. I'm excited to see you guys in the gear. And now let's go ahead and get back to the podcast. And a conscious coma means I know what I want to do, but I'm not responding to anybody. Like if you were to talk to me, it'd be like I'm not receiving or taking any information. But if I needed to or had an inkling like I wanted to stand up and go there, do it, I could do it, but I'm not responding to anything. Somebody's like, stop. You're like, it's not even it's not registering. So I'm in this conscious coma. They do all of these tests to try to figure out what's going on with with my body and everything like that. And again, still this today is it's a medical miracle. Everything was inclusive.  So I wake up, you'll appreciate this story. So I wake up out of the conscious coma and mind you, I think it's it's Sunday, the day that I slipped into it. So that Wednesday, the Jordan Olympic Sevens were supposed to drop. That's like what, 2003, 2004? That's 2004. Yeah, 2004. The first time, right? Yep. So mind you, I wake up four days. I wake up four days later and I don't know that this time has passed. So I'm like, where's my J's? That's like one of the first things I'm like, can somebody go to the employee's store and check to see if they have my size? Like to this day, that's one of the sneakers that I haven't have never gotten. I want to get. I missed out on them because I was in a coma and but that was just the power of sneakers at the time. But that definitely was a challenge. And then coming out of that, it's like when your body goes through that level of trauma, like even though I woke up and now I'm moving forward and we're kind of working with the doctors to get solutions in place.  You got to build up, back up your cognitive function. Just your stamina of like out of it for five days in a coma, four days in a coma. Like the next day is like your energy is zilch. And that was the kind of prequel to my freshman year at U of O. So then it was like, you know, pretty scary of stepping into my freshman year of like, is my health going to hold up in college, me being away from my parents, being away from what I know by myself. And I'm leaving my support system. So in terms of even that person that I can call and be like, can you take me to the hospital? Like, I don't have that where I'm going. So what's the right decision? Do we delay college? Do we go? So that was a challenge that I had where it's like I had to really tap in and say, is this what you want? And how do you navigate this challenge and kind of not let it stop you. So during this time, when you decided to go, decided to go, so you decided to go, a lot of people are scared to ask for help. Yeah. And when you get there, you kind of got to like build relationships with people and be like, hey, just so you know, I might need you. So what was what was it that got you through those moments to be able to ask those vulnerable questions to people and build those relationships with people? Yeah, I definitely struggled for sure to your point. Like you're 18 and all you want to do, you're going to college. Like you want to party, you want to be out, you want to be in the mix. And so fortunate for me, my roommate was also my best friend from high school at the time. So she had an understanding of like what I had went through. But even with her, like I didn't share like to the extent of everything. So but you're in a roommate and a dorm is like this big. Right.  I'm so happy. I did not live. I've never lived a dorm life. So when I came in, I was a freshman on this full right scholarship. I had the biggest scholarship as a freshman. Like I was playing. OK, so you were. So like I was in an apartment when I got to college and I had did a PG year. So I was already like a year older. So yeah, I came in a scenario where they're like red carpet, give you the give you a place to stay, like link up with some homies. It was me and the other starting receiver and linebacker living together. So I did not have that. I'm so glad I never lived in a dorm. I've been in the dorms before. But I was like, there's no way I could live here. It's like a jail cell. It's like a $50,000 jail cell.  Like I'm taking medicine. I'm taking at the time I'm taking prednisone. So I have to get up. You just have to be honest. It's like I got to get up in the middle of the night to take my medicine. And this dorm is not big enough for me to turn on the lamp without it petitionally disturbing you. Right. So you have to have those conversations. It just was a matter of for me, like life and death, being able to move or not move that forced me into this vulnerability. It was like, I got to share these things. But even in that, I think the hardest thing for me to ask for help around because again, I was valedictorian. I was straight A student. I had always excelled in school. My mind wasn't as sharp. And so being able to have enough vulnerability and humility that I'm not the one setting up the tutor session in the like, oh, yeah, come to this section, this certain place. I'll help you all, which is what I was used to. It was me having to reach out to people in my class like, when are y'all studying so I can go get help from you all? Or asking the hardest thing really was I had to ask for a tutor. In a specific class and I had never in my life like needed a tutor. So that was really a shot to my psyche and my identity of who I how I saw myself in what I thought I was great at. Now I need so much help. And that was the hardest part is like, wow, I'm not giving out the information. I can't retain this in the way that I used to. And it was just about building it back up. But I also think it was a very valuable lesson in the sense of to your point, asking for help and learning that even in the thing that you are proficient in, that you're great in, that maybe you've kind of connected your identity to, you're going to go through seasons and cycles of that. You're going to go through. I'm clicking on all cylinders like I'm when I'm winning and you're going to go through a phase was like, OK, I got to relearn this so I can continue to cycle through and continue to be great at it. And so it really taught me that idea of what we now call that growth mindset or Kaizen, continual learning. But it was it was a halt where it's like, yeah, don't don't walk around here to arrogant or cocky in this area. Because you can go back to ground zero with this and like need help. So that was a hard thing. But I'm glad I learned it that early in life. So do you think it's like caused you to definitely move differently now in your professional career as well or just relationships, whatever? It's been like, all right, I know I'm a big dog, but really, I got to chill. Keep my level head like anything can happen. You got to chill. And it's also to me like taught me that like just because you're sucking in something doesn't mean it's not for you. So if you're really like, I want to finish college just because I'm having a hard time now, that doesn't equal quit. Where I think we sometimes have this idea in our culture that we're only the things we're good at are supposed to be easy or quick. Or it's not supposed to be this hot. It's like, no, just because you're good at it, you still are going to struggle through it and it's in you struggling through to get to the other side that you're going to actually tap into greatness. So that's what I've tried to carry through is like, yeah, you're going to it's causing me to not be afraid to put myself in situations where I'm uncomfortable or I'm learning again or where I'm the rookie again, because I don't have this thought that the things that are easy are for me and things that are hard. I mean, it's not for me. It's like, if I got to struggle through this a little bit, I'm learning. I'm putting tools in my toolbox and it's going to help me be better. Right. And I'll come out on the other side of it. Where I think I see a lot of people, especially in kind of this household or microwave culture, where it's like, when it's hard, they turn back like the world is on top. That's what I tell people a lot too. I'm like, for a while, ever since I got in that car accident, well, that's what really changed it for me. But it was like, I was like, oh, I get excited for bad times now. Because when something bad comes, I'm like, this is dope. This is my chance to learn.  Like, I thought this was here, but I'm supposed to be going over there and he pushing me that way. You know what I'm saying? Whatever it is. So for me, I always get excited for those things when those type of moments come Yeah, I may not have done it when I was 17 or 16 years old. But when I yeah, because I was a 21 when I when that happened. But now I'm like, same way. I'm like, let's go. Let's go. Let's get it. But I even think about like the job that I'm doing now, right? Previous to step it into this role had only worked in lifestyle. Now I'm in performance. Now I'm in training. Now I'm working on tennis. I don't necessarily have a background or a wealth of experiences specific to these kind of dimensions. But what I do know is the fundamentals of this industry that we work in. So now, even at 10 years into the game, stepping into parts of the business where I'm a rookie again, right? So even where I see myself now is kind of like I'm back in learning phase where it's like I'm the one going to the suitors or the folks or my mentors to help me or I'm soliciting a lot of feedback. I'm not necessarily proficient in this area yet, but I'm willing to learn, trip forward and get to greatness. So I think that's just part of my mentality. But I kind of had no choice. It was like, you're either going to you're going to not graduate because you're, you know, not reading at the speed that you used to. Like just just work through it. So everything's going on in college. Go Ducks. Go Ducks. So everything's going on through college. And then because when we met, you was actually at Adidas. So was that your first ever corporate or not Nike job, but your corporate sneakers job? So was that where you came from straight out of college or was there anything in between? There was there was Albertsons in the Nike employee store in between. OK, OK, tell me about the Albertsons. Yes. So when I graduate, it was 2008. OK. So the other thing that was happening in the world in 2008 was the recession. Oh, yeah, that too. The recession, but yeah, Obama, true. So nobody was hiring like it was just in our industry. It wasn't nobody was hiring. So I took the opportunity at Albertsons. It was a management store training program where you kind of do a rotation in the store and then they'll give you an assistant store director job somewhere on the West Coast was the kind of program I was in. And I'm telling you, DJ, every day I loathed going to work. Like I didn't like talking about hating something with a passion. Like it was like the work was bad, like you just hated it. What was like, what did they pay you for that? It was I mean, the salary coming out of high school or college. I think I was what, $16 an hour in 2008. In 2008, but I was doing any and the rotation was that you hit everything. So it was the money was good. It wasn't even a problem. So think about it, because when you work on that retail environment, if I'm in the bakery department, so when I did my bakery rotation, we had to start at 4 a.m. Because you got to go bake, but you get nighttime differential. OK, so nighttime differential, you get an extra. I think it was like 4 a.m. Start time, you get 1.5 times your salary per hour. So I'm working in the bakery for the month that I'm working in the bakery from 4 a.m. to 6 a.m. I'm getting that extra pay. And then when you work holidays, you get time and a half. And then when I was had to go through the rotation where I was working nights with the stock room people, you're actually getting two and a half times because you're working night. So you get night pay. So I wasn't mad, I wasn't really mad at that. I hate this, but I pay day in school like two times of the month. I was very happy, right? Oh, so in again, like my expenses were super low. I was still living at home. OK, my responsibility was my phone bill, my own personal toiletries. And I think I had to pay like the cable bill or something like that. Do you have a car at the time? I had a car. I wasn't paying my car insurance. OK, good. Gas wasn't a thing. I had a Honda Civic two door coupe. Oh, yeah, you. So I'm like $20, $25 fill up my tank. I was I mean, I'm I'm I always recommend people to like stay at home as long as possible. Oh, absolutely. Like take advantage of it. But don't stay at home and not be saving up, putting a plan together, getting your credit right, doing all those things like that's very important. Yeah. But yeah, take advantage of that. Take advantage of you. Yeah, if you can stay at home, please do. OK, so I was since how long was that? And then when did you? Because I feel like a lot of people start at the employee store. Oh, I heard that plenty of times. So a lot of people I know. Yeah, so I was at Albertsons and I just was kind of like, I cannot do this like. So I heard it will not. I heard everyone knows that during the holidays, retailers beef up. Yeah. So I kind of was like, again, putting your ego aside or what you expected to happen, because I graduated college. I have all these accolades. I have this degree that I'm not working retail. So yes, you are. So putting that aside, I was like, all right, I'm going to go work at the employee store. And this is kind of my first lesson in betting on myself where I was like, I'm going to leave. Even though Albertsons was at the store, it was a corporate job. It had benefits in terms of health care. It had a path for me. And I was like, I'm going to take a detour and bet on myself and hopefully figure it out. Like, I'm just going to see the first staircase and trust that there's more steps after this. So you don't really kind of know like the blueprint. Yeah, you're just literally like, I know I can do this. So I'm going to just do that. Yes. OK. So it was a part time seasonal sales associate job. So you go from making $16 an hour in all the nighttime differential, et cetera, et cetera, set hours. You know, you're going to get it to I'm back in the vine for hours. Like, you want to be off certain day? Like, I'll trade you my shift. I'm back to minimum wage and it's seasonal. So it was minimum wage back then, like 750 or something like that. Exactly. I think it was. I'm trying to remember because I had a job at my family restaurant. Yeah, yep. That was the only job I ever had. Yeah. And I remember like starting off a minimum wage. I want to say it was like 750 or it wasn't even. It was like 850 at the most. I think it might have been eight or because I remember it would go up like a little bit. Yeah, it definitely was not double digits. Now I think it's basically cut in half. Oh, yeah. So I then I got a job at Matt Dishman Community Center. OK. So I was doing Matt Dishman Community Center, working the front desk. And then I was coaching basketball. You was one of the ones at the front desk. I was at the front desk. That's the community center in the hood for everybody. The hoop there, bit of the swimming pool, boxing, everything. Boxing, all the same. I was giving away free slushies. I'm sorry, City of Portland. Oh, that was a close part to you pull up. Yeah. So I was doing that just I got needed to maintain my responsibilities. Like, to your point, I had the car, had the phone bill. I had the I think cable bill at the house. So I couldn't just work a little bit. But I was proud that at that moment, like I was back in the culture that I wanted to be a part of. Like I was at the employee store and then it's from there. And June, that an opportunity opened up at Audi. OK. So I worked at the Nike Employee Store from November of 2009 to. June of 2010. OK, so the season went past the winter time. Yeah, I got I got asked to stay on. Second, second season. Yeah, I was asked to stay on. I made the team. So for that, too, though, a lot of people that are ambitious. That may work at a different Nike store or any store in general. Like, what do you think were some things that allowed you to get that recommendation to stay on and move forward? I was very passionate about footwear. And I think a lot of times people will come into these environments and just not have a focus and not be authentic to themselves. So, for example, what I mean by that is instead of being a resolute of like, I'm passionate about footwear. It's like, oh, I'm going to do that. I want to do the apparel thing. I want to do the be the visual merchandiser. I want to work at the front desk. I love customer service. Put me anywhere. Right. I want to work at Nike.  I'll work overnight and they don't allow themselves to show their proficient in something and you can't develop those relationships with the folks that are going to be decision makers because you're all over the place. So you're working with this head coach, that head coach doing all of these things. And there might be some merit to that if you're focused and if you have an intention. And so for me, I wasn't that. Like I was like, footwear. Like I was very clear and resolute. Like so on launch day, people knew. Like that's what she wants. She's good at it. She's shown up on time. She's demonstrated that we can trust her. She's not going to put the product in the corner for herself and for her friends is like, OK, we can bring you into this versus people who are like, I'll do whatever. This is like, I was very clear, like footwear. So when people from the employee store came to the, I mean, people from campus came to the employee store to check out new product for us. It was like, oh, put Dom in those meetings because she's going to translate that information to the floor to our customer because she's very passionate about it. And so that's how I started to develop those relationships. Where there's like, if it's apparel, I'm, hey, that part, she or he wants to be an apparel, not me. I was, I was hungry, but I wasn't thirsty. I wasn't like running around like anything. It was like footwear. Yeah. OK, OK. We got to just like take a deep dissection into this time period now, because now I'm thinking about something. You said you worked there in like 2008? No, 2009. Yeah. OK. So 2009, this is like, what? Cherry 12s and all that stuff was coming out then. Cherry, well, Cherry 12s, flu games, the flu games. Flu games came out. That's when they relaunched Air Max. Remember, they relaunched Air Max with all the NFL players. So Troy knows and it had the spark training was big and you could like rub off the product and return a different color, free. Remember, Nike free was huge during that time. Everybody was on free of high school, junior or senior. So like for me, I was like living at the ES just there all the time. So we low key probably ran into each other multiple times and didn't even know it until a couple of years later. That's what I'm just thinking in my head. I'm like, there's no way we did not see each other. No, absolutely not. Obviously I was like way smaller and look different, but like just we didn't even, I didn't even think about that still to this day. No, that's why all these years I've known you. That's why, cause I had met you in 2010, I think the following year, which was my senior year. I think maybe, yep, right when I started working cause I had new, I knew AJ Anthony. Cause I went to church together. Cause we went to church together. So I've known him for forever. And so I think that I had met you a couple of times cause you had like come to church with them. But we didn't start connecting on a sneakers level. Which was like a whole different world. Yeah, which was a whole different world. And I didn't even know y'all was popping as much as you were. Until I was like, oh, y'all got it going over here. Okay. So all right, that was just a thing for me. Sorry, audience. I was just, I had to clarify the moments and just connecting. So now the Adidas position pops up. How does this quote unquote pop up? Did you find this or did somebody come to you? Or like, cause now you're switching to the dark side. Switching to the dark side, going to the enemy. No, I had heard that Adidas was hiring. Just like, you know, you're in Portland. Everybody knows what I want to do. So it was like, oh, Adidas is hiring. And growing up, like I said, it was like Nike. Like I played sports, I was into culture. Nike ruled the nineties, they ruled the 2000. So for me, it was kind of like Adi was not necessarily on my radar, although there was that blip in my sneaker collecting time period early on where Nike or Adidas did the Missy Elliott and they were kind of touching into some and they had the Sierra collection. So that piqued my interest. And so I was always aware, but I wasn't necessarily an enthusiast. So when I first heard it, I was like, Adidas, huh? Then you have to sit with yourself and be honest. Like I'm sitting here, I want to get experience. I want to do this. And if this is what I say I want to do, what am I willing to do to go after this dream? And so then that's when I started doing more research into, okay, let me understand Adidas history. And I'm not connected to it just because it's never come my way. But what can I get excited about? Can I get excited about this brand? That was kind of like my first thing.  And so it's like, all right, I can get excited about this brand. And so that's when the role became more of a thing. Like you go from like, I heard about it to like, no, I want to do this. Like I know what I can do in this space and really being excited about the fact that Adi, in my opinion, is always had a foothold in music culture, really, really strong. And so that was for me, it was like, okay, that's the authentic connection point for me. Because it wasn't until later that like, I would say basically Jordan Brand started to get the lock on music culture with sneakers. But during that time, 2010, especially like, yeah, it was Adidas for sure. Yeah, Adidas, they've always, I mean, you'd even think about back to break dancing and that kind of being the thing that introduced that brand to the streets. Then you had Run DMC who officially did it with the song and they've been a part of music culture and hip-hop culture since really the inception. Like we all know it started as a running silhouette, et cetera, et cetera. Well, hip-hop culture, music culture has always been a part of that brand's fabric. So for me, it's like, okay, I'm connected to that. It makes sense. Apply for the job. Luckily, you know, and I think this is another nugget for those who are listening. It's always good to have a network. It's always good to make sure that your network knows what you wanna do. But also beyond having a network, you're just making authentic connections with people in general. So I had no idea that a couple that went to my church, the husband, he was working at Adi. I didn't know this. I just, again, authentic connections of just like, hey, being cordial, being friendly, connecting with good people. So I was talking to his wife and I was like, hey, I'm applying for this. She's checking in on me. I was like, I'm applying for this job. We'll see what happens.  I'm like, I had no idea. That's the thing, you gotta put it out in the world. You gotta put it out. Yeah, you gotta talk about what, I think sometimes we're like, keep it close to the chest and some things you do. You gotta be wise, but if it's something you're excited about and you're trying to do, like put it out there, talk about it to the right people. So I was doing that and, you know, send them a note with my resume, with all the things that I have been doing. And just was my ask, and my ask always is when I'm asking anyone to help me is just like, can you help my content get seen? I don't think that it's anybody's job to help me get a job. But people can help make sure that the right people get eyes on my resume.  So I always just make the ask like, can you just let make sure the hiring manager or whoever just at least sees it. Let them make the assessment. So I did that, asked him for that and he was gracious enough to do it. And then from there interviewed and fun fact, I don't think I've ever shared this before, so I interviewed and I didn't get the job I interviewed for. I interviewed initially for a merchandise manager role. And I didn't get that job and I was crushed, but in the same conversation, so I'm in this conversation and I go from being absolutely crushed to, but we also have another role. It's a marketing specialist. It's still in the same department. It's not exactly what you interview for. Your responsibilities would be more broad, et cetera, et cetera, more of a, you'll be a marketing specialist and an assistant to our VP. Are you interested? And I'm like, well, yeah. My first thing is like, do I gotta re-interview? Like what is in there? Like, no, you know, we looked at it and we're happy to offer you that one. So again, just a lesson in humility and being willing to bet on myself and know that if I can get in the door, I can navigate. My uncle always told me like, never worry about hitting the home run. If you can get on first base, you can navigate getting home. And so that's kind of always been one of my perspectives as it relates to a lot of things is like, I don't have to worry about hitting the home run. Just let me get on first base and I can navigate from here. And so I took that, the lesser job. For me though, coming from the employee store and all the jobs that I was doing, I was like, both of these are better. So it's static either way. So again, getting a building and that's kind of where it started. So it starts.  So now you got even more odds stacked against you. Yup. And this is, you know, then, even though the odds are still stacked against you in the current time, there were even more stacked against you then. Oh, for sure. Right? So what was your mindset? What is something that you could tell, especially the women or men to think how to navigate around women? Because I can only say what I can say. I can't say from your perspective, right? No, I mean, I think that's a really good question. I thank you for asking it. For me, I didn't know what I didn't know. I had never beyond being at the campus, Nike campus and going to the Jordan building because I had connections there in high school, in the Jordan building, it was very diverse. It was a lot of black folks. Brandis Russell was black female and that was my connect at Jordan. And so anytime I was going to Nike campus, I was nine times out of 10 going to see Brandis, sort samples, et cetera. So in my mind, this is me being naive. I didn't know how non-diverse the industry was. I had the assumption that because I had only experienced the inside of the culture, where the inside of the industry through the Jordan building, that this is what it is. But you were also aligned with, again, your environment, your people that would inherently have your back. That situation, right? Yeah, so when I go into Adidas, I came in, I didn't come in with that thought process of this is gonna be more challenging for me because I'm a black female. I wasn't surprised that in my interview, everybody around the table, nobody around the table looked at me, or looks like me. And so I didn't have that as a, like, negative thought that went through my mind. Very quickly as I got in my role and got the job, I became very clear and aware of the challenges and of the fact that I was gonna have to navigate this differently. So I think my advice that I would tell people coming into the industry, one, if you are a minority, you have to develop a perspective that my blackness, me being a female, doesn't discount me, it actually means that I'm bringing something to the table that might not exist. So what is it that I can bring? How can I add value to this company, to this team? And my blackness doesn't hinder that. It means that I have this unique set of experiences this unique perspective that I can bring to this team and how do I package it in a way that it's received? So if you can kind of flip the mindset from, wow, I'm up against these hurdles to, you know, actually this is one of the things that qualifies me. This is my advantage. This is my advantage, right? Like, I'm from this culture. I've been, I've stood in the lines. Like, I've listened to the music. I have the cassette tapes, the CDs, all the things that we're trying to do as a brand. Like, I've experienced this authentically. So I bring something unique to this table. That's how I would encourage people to approach what they're doing is like, what does your culture, your upbringing, your background, what advantage can it uniquely give you just because you've had these rich set of experiences that people around you might not have had? And we can take it for granted because we're just like, oh, it's a part of our everyday life. It is what it is, right? I'm like, oh, I know how to tie my shoes in seven different ways. I make a tutorial and it's like, I get a million views and people are like, yo, this is so helpful. And I'm like, I forget I've been a sneaker head for 15 plus years. So yeah, that's a good, oh, I'm trying to give somebody an example, but so yeah, definitely take advantage of who you are and where you come from and what you're about and being true. Talking to some other people because I always have to like, oh, I gotta conform to what somebody else is wanting. I gotta do this. And I'm like, nah, nah, you just gotta be yourself. You just gotta do it in a still respectful way and all those other things along with it. Yeah, I like to use this analogy because we all, you know, as Black folks, people of color, we always worried about selling out. Nobody wanted to be a sellout. And I think that if we flip that to... Sorry to interrupt the podcast, but I had to quit question. Are you guys interested in taking your shoe game to another level, but you just don't know where to start? I built a full program just for somebody like you, the six figure sneaker head. It's a eight week program that takes you through all the steps that you need to know. We have a full community where you can engage with everybody else that's going through the same program as you, have monthly live meetups where you can connect with me and other members on the inside. And we set goals for each other and held each other accountable. Also, we give away a free pair of shoes every single month with different challenges. If this is something that's for you or you're looking to take your game to the next level or even flip your sneakers to turn that into real estate, this is the place where you need to be. I can help you with finding loans and remodeling properties and getting yourself on the right path to become a millionaire if that's something that you desire. If this sounds like something for you, hit the link down below in the description and get signed up today. This is more than just sneakers. I wanna see people grow and succeed in all aspects of life. Let's get back to the podcast. And I think that if we flip that to, I'm not selling out, I am choosing to buy in. Anything that I'm investing in, it is going to cost me something. So if I'm buying into this organization, I'm buying into this role, what investment am I making? What is it going to necessarily cost me? And so if we can flip that mentality from selling out, it's like, no, I'm buying in. So it might cost me coming in a room, the higher up you go, it might cost me the comfortability of coming in a room and being like, what's up, DJ, how are you? And I walk in the room because of who I'm in the room with, now my greeting is a little different.  And then if you were seeing me at a concert and I'm turned up. I'm a stalker. Yeah, I'm at Jasmine Sullivan concert and I'm turned up.  Why was she so quiet in the library? It's because of the context that I'm in. I have, I'm invested in that experience in the library. So it cost me something. It cost me maybe my natural octave that I might wanna talk in and I'm gonna bring it down because of the context of where I'm in. So I think that's the mentality that I would like to see more of us of color adopt. It's like, it's not selling out. Only one only you can tell yourself if you sold out because you know who you are. But we do have to, as we go into these corporate places or wherever buy in and us buying in will allow us to navigate in a way that feels still authentic to who we are. And at the same time produces the success and allows us to be effective. But if you just kind of sit back like, I'm not selling out. All right. Cool. I feel it. Okay, so during the time where you're at Adidas, what were like some, again, names and projects that you worked on that were like some notable, memorable stuff. I mean, we've been on different trips. So we've seen each other for different events, different launches, different stuff. So I got my own memories, but I wanna hear yours. No, it's loud.  Oh yeah. So remember we were at Project in Vegas. And me, you, we did a launch party for the forum, I think at the time. And it was me, you and Simon Atkins who was the VP of originals at the time. We took a photo. The three of us. And I didn't even know who he was like that. I was just like, cool, what about the party? Cause I never like, when I was at parties and stuff, like those type of environments, I know everybody's important cause we're all here for something. We're all here for something. But I didn't really care about like your title. No.  And I'm like, no, I didn't have no clue. But all right, go ahead, go ahead. No, but that, that was funny cause that I knew we were gonna do this and that popped up as a memory. And I was like, oh yeah, that, that was definitely a great moment in my career. But some key projects, having the opportunity to be a part of the Tiana Taylor, GLC, we did a project with Big Sean while I was there. The pro model. Yeah, that was fire. The fire with the pyramids. Very expensive shoe that FOB, like getting the moles and using real gold and all of the things. That was fun. What else did we do? I mean, we had, that was at the time too, I think one of the coolest things about being a part of that was there was a real push for women's. And so we were very much so tasked with, how do we think differently in this space? So that allowed us to start to think about how can we make product that will live in an, what's the retailer? Gosh, Urban Outfitters. Oh yeah, yeah. So that was kind of the big retailer at the time, an opportunity for women's. And so it gave me really one, like an opportunity to step back because growing up using very myopic in terms of like sneaker culture, sneaker culture, but it was kind of a crash course, understanding a lesson of like, this is an industry. So while sneaker heads are important from a business and volume standpoint, probably 5% of your business, how are you, what is your growth strategy? So being able to work on that kind of Urban Outfitters strategy helped me understand, all right, how do I think about this through the lens of a business and how we can grow and how we can attract consumers that we're already not winning with instead of doubling down on sneaker culture, sneaker culture, et cetera. I remember we were going back to a funny story we were launching the Tiana Taylor collab shoe. We were launching it at All-Star Weekend when All-Star Weekend was there, All-Star was in Houston. Okay. And again, we're at Adidas, so you already know like Houston is a Jordan city, it's a flight, so we have this plan, we put it together and it's getting approved. So it's gonna happen in the way that we put it together.  So it's this whole plan. And so the night before we were supposed to fly out to All-Star, my friend Toya and I, who was working on the project, we're on the phone and we're like, what is Nike gonna, like we had never considered like, what might Nike come with? Right, because that's what's so dope about like All-Star. Like y'all don't be knowing what y'all planning and y'all both be like trying to put something on to like impress the consumer and like compete against each other. Some years like Adidas wins, some years Nike wins. It's like, it's so funny how that goes. It was just that. We're like, all right, we have all these plans. We got these people coming. What if nobody shows up? Because what would Nike do that would make nobody show up tomorrow? Still are people, yeah. So we're racking our brain and we're like, and at the time, remember for women, the popular thing was wedges. Yeah. So the Dunk Sky High had just hit in every girl. I had a pair. I mean, I had the Adidas version of course, but like every girl that was wearing sneakers was also wearing wedges. So we're sitting there like, what could they do that would just shut down everything that we have? And then at the time, popular for guys was the phone positive. So we're like, if they do... This is right before the, what was that? This is when they dropped the Galaxy phone. They dropped it. Because that was Orlando, right? Or was that a different year? That was a space. It was inspired. Which I remember. Because the Galaxy came the year after I think, wasn't it? I don't know. I remember the phone positive, because I remember the Galaxy phone, I'm pretty sure that was a year after that. But the phone positive was definitely rolling up at the time. Yes. And a lot of people was heavy into it. Because the copper had just dropped. Yeah, the copper's eggplants and the royals. Yes. The copper with the sweatshirt had just dropped. And we were like, if they do a wedge phone positive. That would be the ugliest show in history of sneakers. If they drop a wedge phone positive, none of the girls are going to come to our scene. It's going to be over. Like we were so stressed. Like, is it a wedge phone positive in the plan? Yeah, I mean, like, again, nobody's giving away the information. So we're just stressed. Like, if they do a wedge phone positive, all the girls are going to get it. And we're going to lose. But obviously, the y'all sneaker has no, they did not drop a wedge phone positive. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so glad they did it. Our plan was safe, but that was definitely a moment I remember my career was like, oh, wow.  And they can do anything anytime they want. Like they could shut this thing that is dope. And it was dope. It was definitely a moment for women and sneakers. So I'm super proud to be a part of it. But it was like one of those things I'm like, oh, my God. That's so funny. So, OK, how many years did you wear your Adidas? I always had Adidas for four and a half years. Four and a half years. OK, so now this is like, what, 2014? This brings us up to 2014. 2014? Yep. OK, so 2014 rolls around. And then you're like, what makes you flip back to the other side? Well, I remember I went to New Balance for it. Oh, that's right. Yeah. So I had, so Adidas at the time, it was great. Like I had some amazing experiences. And I had the opportunity to go from working on product creation, so as a product line manager, to step into a merchandising role. So the job of a merchandiser, you're more so dealing with assortment planning and helping to set the marketplace, helping to make sure that we have the right amount of units of a certain product, places, et cetera, et cetera. New Balance didn't have merchandising.  That wasn't even like a roll? Oh, wow. They just had product going straight to sales. OK. So at the time, too, in my career, I'm just in a place where you start to question of like, all right, I've done some dope projects. I'm still very young in my career. I'm three years, three and a half, four years into my career. Is this it? Like, you know, what else can I do? 15 years from now. So you want me to do this again? Like I just gave it. We just did Teen on the Taylor. Like what else do you want from me? And I also just being somebody who's grown up, born and raised in Portland, Oregon, it was a time in my life where I was willing to move and say, like, do I want to be a Portlander forever? And I was hungry and open for new experiences. And so that coupled with somebody that I had worked with at Audi, being at New Balance and making a personal phone call to me, made me say, OK, I'm going to take this opportunity. Right, right.  Go to Boston. Yeah, that's my old stomping grounds. I went to college out there. Boston. Yeah, Boston. Yeah, that is it. I love Boston. I love y'all. Hey, I love y'all. I love y'all, too. But that city. I don't love. I love the city. Some of y'all are cool, but that city is not cool. Nah. OK, so you go to Boston. You said you only did a bit for what? Yeah, I did a bit over. I had to go upstate for it. OK, so you created the merchandise roll, or what happened? They had already created it, and I stepped into it. And for anybody that's stepping into a roll with a startup company and or stepping into an org that didn't exist before, you know, like it is do everything. And like, so I'm servicing accounts from Saks Fifth Avenue all the way to Foot Locker and everybody in between for all of the US. So Nordstroms is my account. And I'm meeting with the boutiques and concepts and the scope of the job was so vast and so large. And then also not to mention, I'm then trying to work with vendors to say, hey, what system can you guys create for us that can work within our system? Because since this org never existed before, everything is manual. So I'm like in Excel. Oh, my. And it just was not in couple with it being Boston. It was it was not the thing for me. But I always say to. I would have stuck it out and I would have stayed there and just like I was saying like learned through those hard times, if not the role at Nike would have opened up. I wouldn't have quit in detour to something else. I would have figured out how to make that work for me and how to add value in that environment. And I was adding value. But I would have still been there again, had that Nike job in women's sportswear not opened up. And it was like all the things. So you're working with more accounts. But when it comes to like, you know how like Nike to me, I don't know, maybe you're wrong. Say, for example, a shoe comes out. They do like 100,000 pairs. And you go to Ditas and they're like, they did 25,000 pairs.  See, it depends. I mean, if 574, no dub because like when you think about greater China as an opportunity. So 574, you're going to do some units on that shoe. But for example, like the made in USA product, those are small units. So you might touch at the time, I don't know what the numbers they're doing now, but at the time you might get up to five, six K. And that's what's so interesting, like limited sneakers to sneakerheads and all those things, right?  But like over there, it's like, all right, let's see if we can sell these 5,000 pairs. Like this will be our drop. Like it's so crazy. The spectrum, like the difference in numbers when it comes to like a limited release or like a wide release or a regional or whatever. Like it's just, it's very interesting. That's why I was wondering like just numbers wise on how many pairs kind of come out when it comes to the different brands. Yeah, no, it's a dope perspective in question because I think that's sometimes why people who may work in the industry or work on certain businesses can get intimidated from moving to a bigger business. And what I had a mentor tell me is like, it's the same business just with more zeros. So if you can stay resolute and stay grounded in business facts and utilize your common sense, utilize your understanding of the marketplace, et cetera, et cetera, then you can put together a plan for 10,000 pairs to move. You can also put together a plan for a million pairs to use if you know what levers to pool in every scenario. So it's the game is the same. It's just some brands can do it with more zeros. Other brands can do it with less zeros but you still need the same tenants. Like you still need influencers. You still need a key retail partner. You still gotta have a dope story. You still needed to be on a silhouette that people want and has cachet. You still need to put in some metrics of like, okay, is it gonna drop on this day? Is it around a moment? Is it around a holiday? So once you know the tenants, then the numbers are what the numbers are.  So let me tease this out there and give you all 10,000 and see, can you metabolize that? Oh, and it's just like, remember the Tor Bravo four? So before that, units on drops were very tight. Really? Yeah, even in Jordan. What's the number one, like an example of that? I'm trying to think of... Like Tor Bravo what, it evaporated, was it 300,000 units? Okay. And this is not me giving out proprietary information. This is what I heard from the blog. So anyway, I could go look this up but that is really, I remember that moment, I wasn't working at the brand at the time, but I remember that opening up the mindset of like, oh wow, like you can move that amount of units in one day. And it's not Christmas. And it's not Christmas. What on a four? So those are the type of moments where it's like, it changes the industry and it changed the game around what does a drop look like? What does a lot of units look like? And that kind of again, extended where we are where we are today. I don't even know how much units Jordan and or New Balance are doing on drops, but I know that was a moment where it was like, oh, sneaker culture is different. These sneaker heads and these people who are following drops week over week, that market size has grown. So now, I think I was like, Audi at the time, we can play a little different and try to tap into this market here, push, yeah. It's interesting. Okay, I have a question, but that's making me think about something else. Like I think of the DJ Khaled fives. They said it was the largest collaboration release that Jordan Brand has ever done. And then a lot of people are like, it's a brick, it didn't sell out, they're on sale. You say you broke records, but then why is it at every outlet? So there's also a fine line between that and say, hey, we did the largest thing. But then it's like, how well did it do for the brand side compared to the money side compared to, because that's a different, I guess lens or stigma that it has on the shoe from the consumer side. When I looking at it and say, hey, yeah, you pushed the numbers, you did try to do that, but how well did it really work? We didn't really receive it that well. It wasn't on that. No, that's the risk though. Like it's always the, kind of the analogy that I'll use is like, you want to leave the party, like while it's still kind of popping, like you don't want to be caught like they turn on the lights at the party. And so that's the balance that any brand has to strike is like, all right, how do we put enough pairs out there where it's like enough people can enjoy the party, but how do we leave the party before DJ is playing the last song. Now the lights is on and we see all the hidden things, like, oh, they had rope, they had cords wrapped all around here, like the beams is not finished in here, like wherever. Yeah, sweaty pits in the corner. Yeah, sweaty pits, your makeup done run, like all of these things, like you're not walking as good in your heels anymore. So I think that's the balance is like, and sometimes you don't always get it right. You don't know, you got to test the market. Part of a lot of what we do is there's no crystal ball. So you're testing the market to see, okay, what is the consumer going to respond to? And how can we get the consumer to respond to us? Just like when you're playing sports, it's like as much as it is about offense, it's about defense. So even though I might have the ball, my job is to try to get the defender to respond to me. And reality is sometimes it's the flip where this defender, now I have to react to them. So it's like that give and take between brand and consumers. Like sometimes the brand is playing offense and the consumer is just eating up everything and like playing to the offense. And then other times the brand has to realize, all right, we got to react to the defense. The consumer has told us this, the trends have moved like this, we need to react and play to the defense. So it's always that kind of give and take. And it happens in cycles, it happens in ways, like you're always, that's why a lot of people get off on like the factory finds, right? From every brand, because some things just, you put too much units out there or it doesn't sell in this certain location in the way. And you can find it at a factory or you can find it however many days after launch. And that's just the name of the game. You don't want to do that too much. But that's just, yeah, it is what it is. Like you're not going to hit everything. Okay, so this was my question. I was going to ask you a little bit ago. What would you say was like, or is your or was your three like kind of key pillars to you like managing and measuring like success in your role and in the industry that you're in? Yeah. Like through like business success. Like, okay, like the, I have to do these three things or like whatever it may be that kind of lets you know that like, I'm on the right path to having a good launch or a successful drop or whatever you want to call it. Yes. So one, anything we do in the industry is all about the team. So no one person is making decisions. No one person is attached to the product from the inception of it all the way through the process to the go to market to launch. So within that context, your one measure of success is like, I have to focus and isolate my part. So what is my part if, so for example, as a product line manager, I cannot be tied to sell through of my product because there's so many decisions that happened after me that if I was to always measure my success by sell through how many people bought the product, you might go home sad a lot of days. So one of the things that as a product line manager across any brand you really want to look at is like, are you making a dope product? Like, does that product look good? And that's especially if you're building something from scratch and you're not veneering it with color material, but if you're building it from the bottom up, like, do you have a really good product brief grounded in consumer insight? So that's the number one. And that's what I say, like, is a product dope? It starts with like, do you have a good brief? Do you have a good insight? And are you able to translate that insight into product decisions? That's one measure of success. The second one is, are you hitting your financial targets and metrics? So each shoe is gonna be, you know, it's gonna have a FOB, it's gonna have a margin. Oh, explain to them what FOB is. Yep, so FOB is basically the cost of the shoe. Margin comes in of how much the shoe costs versus how much we're gonna sell it for. So that percentage of profitability. And this is at the wholesale price compared to not the retail price. Yep. Because some people have the assumption of, well, it costs them this much, but they're selling it at 180, but it's like, you're not selling it at 180. You have to sell it to the retailer to the retailer to then mark it up and sell it at their price. Exactly, exactly. And every brand and every product has a different margin. So every product's goal is not to like, drive margin, some of it is to introduce new technology or some of it is to excite the consumer. So there's all these different key performance indicators that each product will have. So another measure of success is, am I hitting my key performance indicators, my KPIs, am I clicking off on those? Which means, am I delivering what the organization wants me to deliver with this specific product? Is it gonna do what we said it was gonna do? And also, every product is not meant to be a banger, not meant to be the hype shoe, not meant to be those things. So from a sneakerhead perspective, we say, oh, that shoe's trash, da, da, da. But it's like, you have to make products for different demographics, different audiences, different stores, different locations, different consumer prices, all different things. Different uses, yep, yep, exactly. So it's all of that, like, am I, one, am I trying to do too much for this product that is not this shoe for a sneakerhead and so I'm, oh, I want Aglix and I want this and I want that and oh, put another shoelace in it and change the sock liner, all those things that in the context of the consumer, that's not what's gonna drive them to purchase this product. The consumer for this particular product could really care about comfort. So as a product line manager, your job is to really drive and make sure that the team is focused on the priorities that are gonna matter to the consumer. For that specific product. For that specific product. So that's what I mean by those KPIs is like laying out, you know, for that all-star weekend drive going back to Tiana Taylor, like it was, the goal was not to drive a ton of units. I think we, I think we did 1,200 pair. But the goal was to have an impact at all-star. So the KPIs for that product looked very different than the plan we were putting together for Urban Outfitters. Right, right, right. So that's the second thing. And then the third thing is if you have the opportunity to really make a sound story, that's intuitive for the consumer. That's the third measure of success. It's like, do we have a story? Are we creating a vibe and energy around this product that consumers can find themselves in? And I'm looking around this room, you have so much product in here. And I'm like, oh, that story, that story, that story, that story, that story. And that's what you want. You want the consumers to see it and be like, oh, I get it, or I remember that story. Or if I didn't know the story, it's intuitive enough that I can look at it, study it and pull out a couple of things and be like, oh, okay, I see this message here. I see this there. And then they can grasp the story. So you wanna make something that's intuitive for the consumer. So those are the three things that I would say are measures of success, as it relates to creating a product. But beyond that, like, you gotta have fun with this. Like, I think if you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong. We work in sneakers. There's so many, I have friends that work in industries that they have very serious jobs. They work in social work and they're dealing with young folks' lives. They're sitting in court to try to help somebody who's 16 beat a charge that they've been accused of murder. Like, that's a tough job. Or I have friends who are lawyers. Like, that is a tough job. Or friends who work in the healthcare field where a mess up there is somebody's life. Or I think about my uncle who used to do construction is like, if you put this electrical wire in the wrong place, you know, the whole house burned down. So I always try to keep it in that context of like, we're so fortunate and lucky that like our jobs, we work on sneakers. Like this is laces, rubber, leather. And we should be having fun with this. I think that's what's so interesting too from like a lot of people that I speak with that work like corporate in sneakers, they see sneakers in a different lens compared to a sneakerhead. Even if they love the new Travis Scott's or the whatever's that just came out. But your vision on the same shoe is just so different. You know what I'm saying? Like it's so crazy how like, I can even glorify a lot of sneakers and I love the story, I love telling the stuff or whatever it may be, but I'm gonna like glorify it in a different way. You know what I'm saying? No, it's just like, I mean, it's like this, I use this analogy, it's like, it's a difference between like going to Disneyland and experiencing just the magic of it. That's what sneakerheads, they just experience the magic what those of us who work in the industry, we're behind the scenes.  Donald Duck is not really married to Daisy Duck, what? These are fake characters. These are humans, not mouses, not ducks.  Like, you know, like as you get to go behind the scene, so is that different? Where just perspective, like for you, like I'm looking in this room while walking in and I'm like, this is so dope, it's perfect.  And I'm like, it's perfect. And you're in your mind, probably like 10 more things you want to do with it. And I'm like, here you just like this. And I'm like, don't do nothing else. So is that where the sneaker community is like, they get to experience the magic of what we do. And as people who work in the industry, like we're behind the scenes, we're in the back of Disneyland, back of houses, like, oh, this is what this is. So it's a different experience that you have with it, but it's all love too, I think, still of like, I know people, and myself included, it was like, if it wasn't for the passion and the love of sneakers and the culture and et cetera, et cetera, you go off and you do something else. But a lot of folks, it's like you stay in this because there's a connection that you have to us being able to continue to move this forward. And or for me now, where your focus shifts or it's like now really a win for me is like, I wanna see the next generation of diverse leaders, like take the reins and run and go further than I've been able to go far and quicker than I've been able to get it. And so that's the thing that inspires me now. Or it's like, it affords me the opportunity and the platform to mentor, to pass on game, to help the next generation be able to go further faster than I have. And so I see my focus and my passion for this have shifted over the years where like, it used to be create some dope product with a dope story, create the energy, have the impact. Now it's about how can I impact people? How can I help amplify that person's life story so that they can navigate this place in a way? So that's, I think just kind of the shift where when you're staying in this industry for a long time, you still appreciate it, but the way in which you love it kind of evolves, which I'm sure you could say the same, even collect the sneakers over time. It's like, you used to do it like this or for these reasons and now you're like, this is why I do it. It gets refined, I would say. And I think like, when you think of a lot of successful business people that have a goal, typically most businesses are to help people with something. They're all of like some type of service, right? Like that's basically every business. So most of those people have that and they do all those fun things or whatever it is, but they get to the end and it's like that form of philanthropy. Like that's where it starts to come in. And like even same for me, like what do I want to do? I want to teach people about sneakers. I want to help them get there faster. I want to help bring people on to have these conversations, all those different things. I'm not in the position where I can just go out and give a thousand pairs of shoes away every week. I want to do that one day. You know, I'm working towards that, but like, yeah, I understand what you're saying. We're like, you know, things evolve. So I can do it for this now. Over time. Yeah. Definitely. Like I've flexed enough. Y'all know I got it now already. Yeah. I feel that. So okay, what are you working on right now and what have you been struggling on recently? Like I'm sure you had some type of struggle throughout the game.  Yeah. So I think for me now, so I step into a place where I'm leading a team of people. And with that comes, you know, the responsibility of how do I tap into the greatness and the potential of each individual person on my team. And that requires time. That requires me to create an environment of trust and build trust with them that they can trust me enough to be honest. It also requires me to see them in a way that they might not see themselves, but also see the greatness in them and being able to tap into that. And then it also requires me to be aware enough of, all right, this is how I've contributed in the past. Now I have to be effective in a different way. So we're in the past. I'll use an analogy of basketball. In the past as a point guard, we need a bucket. I know how to do that because I've been a point guard for a lot of my career. So I know, okay, I can bring the ball down. I can try to shake up this defender. If this defender is not letting, you know, I can't break this defender down. I can pass, I can cut, I can do all these things. I know how to get a bucket as a point guard. Now I'm a coach and I'm on the sideline. So it's about inspiring my team to be able to get a bucket, making sure that my team understands the different ways in that to navigate, to get a bucket or to get a win. Also listening to them of, I'm not on the floor. So when you think about a basketball court, I see the court differently than my team who's they're in the game. So they have a different vision of the game. So it also requires me to listen. It's like, okay, I'm seeing it from the sideline now.  So creating that environment where it's a feedback loop where they're taking feedback from me, I'm taking feedback from them and we're able to use our mutual understanding and experiences and vantage points to just make something dope or to move the business forward. I also think that for, you know, leadership, it requires an incredible amount of self-discovery because at the end of the day, as a leader, people get an extension of who you are. And so you can't fake leadership. I don't think you can't fake it. It'll go down quick. It'll go down quick. So as much as, you know, we always have the saying, you can't pour from the empty cup. And I try to think of this and I definitely believe that. And so now what I've realized just through leadership and what it requires of you is really, nobody should be drinking or eating from my cup. My cup is for me. I have to keep my cup full for me. That is what allows me to function. Now what my team gets or the people around me get, they get the overflow. So being an effective leader requires me to be so filled up that the people around me can thrive off the overflow. But once people start dipping in my cup, now I'm depleted. And so that's something that I'm working on now is making sure that I'm very disciplined in my morning routine, how I start my day, how I end my day, the things that I'm constantly trying to put into my psyche and my, you know, my mental and also physical health. How do I want to continue to invest in me so that there's some overflow that people can benefit from? Cause this leadership thing is not for the faint at heart. And also back to what we were saying, like the reality of leading as a black woman in a male dominated, still male dominated industry, that brings its own set of complexities. And so really you got to be honest with yourself and you got to take a lot of time and you got to be very willing to test your process. Like it's not going to work for everybody at the same. So the way that I might talk to this person on my team or get them to get up for the game and be great, it's a very different conversation with this individual over here. You got to pump people up in different ways. In different ways. Same thing, yeah, I know that. And like, I think the hardest part too is like, I've always grown up being well liked. It wasn't easy. It was never hard for me to make friends or integrate into a group or whatever as a leader cause you're making decisions that might piss this person off or it's not in the line with that person. That person had a different idea. You're now the one that's saying no to certain things because you have an awareness of like, we can't like, this is what's coming up. So I got to. And you can't even like be like, oh yeah, I'll let you get one next time. Cause it's like, it's really for business. Like maybe you just messed up or didn't have the best idea three times in a row. Like it's not personal. I just legitimately have to like make the best business decision for the business. And so really just getting used to like, people ain't gonna rock. People aren't gonna like you, or people are gonna have an attitude with you for a week or two weeks. They'll get over it. You pull up in the office, it's all operate. Side eye. You read the email I sent, I said no to that. Hey, okay. So just getting comfortable with that in, yeah, like, you know, it's different navigating at this level of leadership. And for me, it's just been a lot of like my approach to it. And we'll see I'm three years into it. So I'm still very much so like developing a playbook that will allow me to be effective. But my approach to it has been like, I gotta first be the best version of me that I can be. So that again, like anybody that comes in contact with me, they can experience the overflow. Okay, so I know a lot of, I'm sure again, you know a lot of pro athletes as well. We know a lot of pro athletes. And there's the ones that are passionate about the game and they're a pro.  And then corporate, it's the same way. I'm assuming. I don't know because I've never done it before, but I'm assuming it's the same way. How do you like feel and navigate around those type of people? Because it is hard when you're like, I'm trying to do this for the culture and all the stuff, da-da-da. Like I want to be able to pass this down, help people up. And they're like, I'm just here to do my job. I'm just here to get fine, do what you can partially. Yeah, you do. I mean, I think it's, for me like, the way that I've approached it is like, one, it's a fallacy in life.  So that's just number one is like, you gotta keep that in mind of like, you're not gonna get you out of other people. So what can I get from this person that can help me grow that I can learn? And how do they navigate, you know, again, me being in a level where I'm now with people that I haven't worked side-by-side with before. So me being back in like learning mode of like, what can I learn from them around how they've navigated that can help me sustain? So some of it is realizing that some of the ability to detach and not be so enmeshed in this is gonna allow me as a leader to make more sound, resolute decisions, non-emotional decisions, knowing that like, when I need to tap into that, it's there. So that's never gonna leave. But knowing like, this is an opportunity for me to develop a muscle that allows me to be consistent and steady. And my goal is to activate that level of passion and sense of urgency in my team. So now we're clicking on all cylinders, but it's really about realizing like, you can learn from whomever. That doesn't mean that it has to change the way you move. But being around, I always say like, you know, you know, nothing's random, I don't think. So if I'm meeting somebody who they're working style, the way they approach this, I'm like, what in the world? Like this is how you, they're there to teach me something. If they choose to say Dom's there to teach me something that's on them, but I can learn from this individual and what can I learn from them that I can put in my arsenal? And everything is situational. So going from meeting to meeting, I don't need to bring the same level of intensity, like going back to that analogy around like the party versus the library. I don't, every meeting doesn't require me to be height, like club Dom, some situations for effectiveness requires me to have my library approach, right? So the people who operate under the library approach all the time, I can learn from them. Like you just, not monotone, but you just locked in. It's just, ah, that's what you do. They locked in all the time, like they not make, you know, so they're looking at the spreadsheets and the numbers and this is how they dissect things, et cetera, et cetera. So I can learn from that and put that as a part of my arsenal. Now I don't have any gaps in my ability or I'm able to be more effective. So that's easier said than done, but it definitely comes with, I just think appreciating like, that's their style. No, he no judgment. My style is my style. Somebody might have an opinion about that too. So they're just like, I want to be accepted for how I approach the work. What can I learn from how they approach the work? Yeah, I'd be the same way. Like when we go to, especially in the football scene, like when I go to these camps and I help the kids in the summer camps and stuff, I'd be like, obviously I'm not pursuing football anymore, but it's so dope like getting to teach them stuff. But like these new kids, they'd be finding a little stuff on Tik Tok and little tricks and stuff. And then I'm like, ooh, that little release was dope. Like, I don't know how you do that. Like I'm asking them like, they nine years old. I'm like, I'm getting game from them.  So people got to understand, don't let age be a thing. Oh, you're older than me. So you know more, again, respect your elders, all the different stuff. But at the same time, we got to like, respect everybody, all the ages, all the different places, all the different stuff. Because again, your uniqueness comes from that. And then you provide that information and whatever it is. So yeah, it's just, it's funny how that all plays out. Being in that learning mode is always good in any situation. Yeah, and I feel like it all comes to you at a time when you need it. Like I will also say, being able to be in this role and have this perspective is like, it's allowed me to open up the aperture of like, all right, what else do I wanna focus on in my life? So I can focus on my physical health and give, because we have so much energy that we can expend in a day. And if you're, which I was at a point in my career, you're expending 80% of your energy into work or the industry or I'm on this blog, I read this, you see what this brand did? You only have 20% to expend on something else. So it's also about at different points in your life and career I think is making that assessment of like, I can do my job well, but what is my energy output? So my energy output needs to be this. And then I can use some energy for these things over here. And not even just physical. Yeah. Just all types. Yeah. Or think about how much you think about work. Yeah. You know, like that alone. Up all night thinking about the thing. Thinking about the things. That's your energy. Right. Think about what, if you put that in a context of like, all right, I'm gonna decrease the energy I spend on work. Now it's like, oh, I got 15% more energy. What do I wanna put that into? Do I wanna put it into my physical growth? Do I wanna put it into mental growth, spiritual growth, relational growth? And then so you start. So my perspective has changed over time. Where it's like, I used to very much so be somebody who was a meshed in this work. And life as it made took me on a path. Where it was like, I realized, all right, I need to create some separation. And in doing so, oh, I've created and freed up some energy for more of this, more of this, more of this. And my work output didn't decrease for it. That makes sense. So, give me one final thing. Who is the greatest person you've worked with, like athlete-wise or artist-wise? Oh. I know you got a good story. Yeah.  So you, okay, what did you do? Oh, yeah, because you were the PLM for Jordan brand. I was in Jordan for it. And that's how many years was that? That was one and a half. That was COVID too, right before COVID. That's right. 2019. Oh, maybe, okay. Yeah. Let's go ahead. The first day they tell you, you're going to be meeting with Jordan. Well, so here's the thing. I was working on the kids business. So I knew Jordan was, I heard, you know, in meeting stuff, MJ was coming, he comes often. He's review the product line, but I wasn't sure. I was like, does he look at the kids business? I wasn't sure. You know what? Right, right, right, right. He does, right? Okay. Damn. Well, I'm not talking about your era, but there'd be some crazy kids that become it. I'm like, why are they dropping these? Yeah, he's like, what's going on? So I'm like, all right. Then there's the like, it necessarily is so, we have a team. So am I going to be the one to present to him? Or is it going to be my manager? Right. Or am I even going to be in the room? So then you don't know those things. So it's like, you know, try to temper your level of excitement. You're just going to be like at the office, and he just walks by and like, that's it? Or is it like, I'm going to be like, hey, how's it going, sir? Exactly. So it was the latter where it's like, no, he's coming, he'll be in the room. You're going to present. Wait, when did you find out? Like the day of or like before? No, before, maybe like two weeks before. Yeah, like the anticipation. But you but that's the thing about what we do is like, in saying what you was like, you know, your stuff. So if in two weeks, they're like, oh, DJ, you're going to present like, you're going to interview Jay Z. Like, and y'all are talking about sneakers, you know, your stuff. It's just the anticipation of like, how am I going to approach it? So there wasn't any kind of anxiety or like fear around like the content. It just was like, it's the moment. This is MJ. Like they play the little guitar music when he walked it out on the court. Standing at six, six. So I so I remember that day, though, then this is a very just in my own head thing of like, what am I going to wear? Right. Like this for me, this is a moment for him. This is work. So he don't know, but I'm like, this is a moment I'm going to be MJ. What am I going to wear? What Jordan am I going to wear? Like, am I going to be all like, what's his favorite Jordan? I wear that number or am I going to take it back to 85 and wear the band ones because that's the beginning of it. So you have all of these like stories that you start to tell yourself.  So he might ask me about those. And that's a dope story. Or do I wear the latest drop that just came out? So he knows I'm following the brand. And again, all the things in my head, he's like, I'm here for work. Do you remember what he was wearing? I even wear some performance, Jordan's. I feel like he'd be wearing the most random stuff. He don't really be wearing a high sometimes, but like rarely. No, I don't have like some, I some all way. Yeah, it was something if you wear some random stuff. I want it. Maybe he had on AJ once. I think he wears a lot of ones. Yeah, it was. At least in pictures, I see. Yeah, it wasn't. It didn't make me be like, it wasn't anything that exclusive. I would say that like hadn't launched or anything. So we go into the meeting and mind you, I'm five foot. So it was a short meeting. It was a blur on it. Hold on. She said mind you, I'm five foot. It was a short meeting. Pun intended. All right, go ahead. So like the way the room is oriented, like when it's my turn to speak, he has to swivel to where I am. Like in his chair. Yeah, yeah, OK. So it's not a huge room. So that's why I say I'm five foot. So when he swivels, he's sitting down. We're the same. You're like, look at him dead. So yeah, I'm not expecting that because that was just like boom, boom, like I say, like we locked in. Right, right. A manager had introduced me and he, what I really appreciate about him, that's different to some athletes that I met of had the opportunity to present to us. He was locked in like some people, you know, they'd be on their phone there for the day. They just take he's intent. So he's locked in. He's not on his phone. He's asking good questions. Not that I'm, you know, surprised that he would. But I was really pleasantly like surprised that I was like, OK, this felt very conversational and it made me respect him more as a business person. Now, mind you, like I had no other frame of reference, but I was like, it's so refreshing to see this side of him and be able to speak to him in this way. So, you know, a thousand amount of respect to him for how he treated me in that meeting again, being a fresh face in the brand. I'm speaking to you and I also, you know, going back to something you asked earlier around, like, how can men support women in the industry? It's just like things like that. A lot of times when a woman speaks up in a meeting, that might be the time where men, quote, unquote, tune out or let me get this text message off real quick. And I see it in my day to day or, oh, I can send this email right quick or I can break eye contact and he didn't do that. And so that was something that for me was super affirming as a woman doing this role because you don't get that respect a lot from your peers on a day to day. So for someone of his caliber to respect what I was saying enough to look me in the eye, be present, ask me questions, thank me after it was like, wow, like it felt really good. But the magic moment that happened, right? So we finished and mind you, it's MJ. So it's not like I just rolled into the meeting, no pressure or whatever I rolled in. So I'm dying, like I'm thirsty. I'm like, oh my gosh, I just spoke. It's all this energy. So afterwards, after I do my piece, it's a break. So I be aligned to where I can get some water. He think you got to take a dump. No, it's not funny. No, they had water and they had a little water and snacks set up in the back.  And he was like, good job, little lady. And I was like, I'll never wash this shirt again. I'll keep it forever. Oh, but yeah, that was a special time. And again, just somebody to one, interact with somebody that I grew up watching, grew up having a huge respect and affinity for, and then being able to receive that mutual respect and affinity for him. Like amazing career moment that I won't forget, but also just a testament to who he is as a person where it's like, any of us could treat somebody that can't do as much for us with less respect and didn't do that. Right, I feel that. Wait, so you're working with Serena now too? Or everybody in tennis? All the women or men in both? Oh, that's fire. Y'all kind of on fire right now if you think about it. We're trying to be, trying to light it up. Yeah. Y'all doing your thing. I just thought about that. Especially this past year and a half. Yep. Y'all been coming on the scene. How long do you think that's gonna last? What the whole thing? Just the whole like buzz around tennis. Cause you know it's got- It's never gonna stop. You know how it's got its waves. You know, tennis, honestly, I'll just kind of zoom out. I think that everything in fashion is on a five year cycle. So you go into your, I think right now we're in a prep cycle. So that Americana look, so that's where golf and tennis and kind of voting, so your top sliders and kind of like all the chinos, all of that is in vogue and in fashion right now. Kind of like that prep look. I'm a little bit more dressed up. We're kind of out of where we were in a strong cycle of like streetwear and graphic tees and all of that. That was a while. That was a, it's in Latin. That was a while. It lasted longer than I thought it would, but we transitioned out of that. And then I think 2020 just like broke the mold of the fashion cycle. And so coming out of that, I think people have a bit of a more of an elevated style which tennis also always wins in that. Yeah. But what I would say is more so than like the kind of style trend I think we're going to go into a very heavy print era. We're going to go back into prints pretty soon. Like where Camo and Cheetah and Zebra and Floral. They're leopard. They're leopard. I think the industry is leaning towards that again because everybody in the weight, and I don't have a crystal ball. I don't have any. But the reason I say that is cause again, 2020, we were all in the house. So it didn't matter. And then people are now coming out of their homes they're more dressed up. And we've kind of been in this, what do you call it? Nomcore or quiet luxury. And once we come out of that, as we go, as society goes into a potential recession, people are going to be looking for a ways to flex and to show themselves. Whereas like if we're in a quote unquote recession, the flex might not be being on a yacht, but the flex might be like, I got this floral outfit on, et cetera. Like the peacock kind of just coming out. Express myself in this way. So that is always kind of how I approach it is, I look at like, what's going on in society and how might people respond to it? So my bold prediction is that if we do hit this recession in the way some economists are saying, people are going to be looking for other ways to flex and I think print is a accessible way for our consumers to flex, especially in our sneaker industry. Okay, before we go real quick, can we talk about real estate just real quick? Oh yes, yes, yes. All right, so when did you like get involved in real estate? Cause when you have a career like this, you can just like take the benefits from the job, you can get your shares, you can do that. You can just invest like, you know what I'm saying? Some people will decide to get in real estate, they don't want to deal with it. Where did you kind of get started and where you at now? Yeah, so my dad and my uncle had a real estate company for a long time, for most of my life, Debenham and Associates. And so I always was around it. Like I remember early on, so being in like, you know, five, six, sevens or early, early elementary school, dad picking me up from school when we go to business meetings or we're going to go see this house. So that's kind of the ilk that I've grown up in. So I've always understood like the value of real estate but then to your point, like you got to be ready to step into that, like to go from one home to two homes. And so for me, it came in 20, well in 20, I'll say this in 2010, my mother passed away from cancer. And with that, myself and my brother, we inherited our family home. So that really was like the crash course of like, you got to figure this home ownership stuff out today. Like right now, and fumbled my way through that until I figured it out and got to a place where I was efficient. And then wanted to make sure for me it was very important because that's, I see my family home is like, that's my mother's legacy that belongs to my brother and I, so I wanted to make sure that I was financially in a place where like, when I stepped into real estate, like that property was good. And this is at the time of you just finally coming into like the corporate side of working with sneakers and everything, like all at the same time. All at the same time. So it took me a while to invest outside of that home because again, I wanted to make sure I could manage it. And to the extent that it depended on me, I was going to make sure that the house is good or I'm going to make sure. So that said, when I did purchase another property, it was really about how, where do I want to purchase? So we live in Portland, Oregon and the, my family home is in Northeast. So for listeners, Northeast is now prime real estate. Used to be the hood. It used to be the hood. It's now prime real estate. Now everybody be walking goats in the street. Walking goats, you got artisanal coffee, you got boutique ice cream. It's bourgeois. It's very bourgeois.  And so, yeah, I was like, I don't want to get, I don't want to be house rich in that sense. Like I want to make sure that I'm still managing my portfolio. And so with that, it was like, I'm looking for an investment property where I can get in at a reasonable price and then ride the wave. So that then took me to look in places where it's like, all right, it's a little bit outside of Northeast. So I was looking in Vancouver, which is just across the river. Vancouver, Washington is adjacent to Portland, Oregon. So just across the river. Or do I go out further to quote unquote, the numbers, which is higher in numbers, but still has a Portland address. Really my real estate philosophy is, my goal is to own multiple properties, multiple doors. And my philosophy is if I can build up a real estate portfolio, that I can live off from a retirement perspective. Like cash flow, rental-wise. Cash flow, that's my goal. So right now I would say, yeah, I'm in a choir phase. So building slowly, my goal is to hold on to the properties as I acquire more. And then... It happens when you become like a real estate mogul and then you're like, I'm still working at this job, it's dope, but I'm making more money over here. Do you kind of like go for another? I think the dope part though, about having the solid job, because that's salary. So you submit the form, locked in, they know what you're making for the year. You're like, you're good to go. Like when it comes to the loan process, it makes things a lot easier than a solo entrepreneur to come and figure it out, taxes, all the stuff. They just be hating on you, the rates is higher. So again, in that situation, it's like milk that. You know what I'm saying?  Like, if y'all gotta let me go, I'm okay. No, it's like, but that's really is like, I mean, I think really when you think about real estate, what we're really talking about is generational wealth. And that for me is the lens by which I approach it. It's like, if I can contribute and have an impact on building generational wealth, then I think it also takes us as black people from this place of being kind of swayed by what the market does to, now we are decision makers in there. You can help control it. You can help control it. Like when you're a property owner, you can help make decisions and decide certain things as somebody who is fortunate enough to have a rental property, I set the price there. So some of these things that we might always be benefactors of or just on the receiving end of other people's decision, I think what owning property does is it puts us in the decision seat where we can make decisions that can help benefit someone else who looks like us or someone else who might be coming out of college who doesn't have the benefit of living or going back home. But instead of taxing them, we can give them affordable, you know, rent. And then also give them the blueprint to say like, yeah, you could stay here, but I'm trying to help you get out of here. I'm trying to help you move to the next part, get you in the next position and go by your own place to whatever it is or even afford to go to the next position or whatever. So I think that's a big thing that I've noticed too with the conversation with a lot of people about that topic. Cause it's like, most people are just like, yeah, cash flow, this, yeah, cool. But I'm like, no, I want to help the people come in and be able to get them out and bring the next person in and help them teach them the game too. Exactly.  You can start to fuel the economy in a way that is going to be beneficial for people who look like you versus kind of just watching inequities happen. Now as somebody who, again, like a homeowner, who do I want to have my property insurance through? Who do I want to come be able to do this? Oh, what company do I want to hire for this? All of those decisions I'm able to make and with the consciousness of how it might benefit black and brown communities or women-owned brands, like for example, what is it, TaskRabbit, was needed something done really quick, someone TaskRabbit and it's like three, to do this quick, easy job, like four white males and it was a black female.  And when she came, she was like, wow, like, we have no idea how hard it is for me on this app to get work, et cetera, et cetera, because I'm a female and then people see my picture and I think they think I'm black. So in this city is hard for me. And so her and I would have that conversation but it was me being in a position to hire that allowed me to then extend some income to her which then she can go and do whatever else she needs to do for her family or the community. So I think of it as that. It's a responsibility, it's a privilege, it's fun. When you get to the decorating phase of renovations. But yeah, it's about legacy I think and really being a part of creating the world we wanna be a part of. Definitely.  It's up to you. No, it's up to you. This has been great. Like one, I wanna just why we're on, like say, I'm so proud of you. Thank you. I haven't known you for so long since I was at Adi. Like I've enjoyed watching you pivot through the years and keep kind of expanding your empire if you will in just the different ways that you've brought in different things to the industry but you stayed true to like DJ sneakerhead. That's right. I didn't know, like that's what your name was in my phone for so long. And everything is authentic to that DJ sneakerhead and it's matured over time where it was like, you know, DJ can get you the shoes now as DJ has a business, like you have your YouTube channel, Pop and Instagram, like all of the things. So I just wanna say congratulations to you and like keep going. Again, you're one of my OGs like that has helped me along the way. Whenever I need questions over the years, like obviously we don't talk every day or anything but whenever I would need to know something that I'm trying to learn, like it never like it was like brush me off or whatever. Never, yeah. We could have that one meeting every couple of years or something and just kind of catch up and talk about different things, learn the industry and help me get another perspective. Cause it did help me in so many different ways too. How I grew my business, how to cater it towards working with the industry, getting in the right places and all the different stuff, whatever it may have been. So I appreciate it as well. Thank you. I'm happy for your growth as well over the years. I always find when you text me or something's like, okay, I'm doing this now. I'm like, okay, you're over here. That's what's up. Like seeing the growth in that and like we were talking about the people where some people move sideways and some people move up. It's like, yeah, you got all these different roles but like you're staying on the same level all the time. So it's like continuously moving up, making those improvements as a big thing too. Thousand percent. Yeah. Okay, so final questions. This is what we do. Everybody asked me these questions. Yeah. So now I ask you the question. How many pairs of shoes do you have in your collection? Oh my gosh. Roughly, it doesn't have to be exact. I would say a little more than 150, less than 250. Okay, okay, so that's solid. Yeah. So it's always like 200 pairs. We'll just say 200 pairs. Yeah, also for context, like my shoe size has been the same since I've been in the seventh grade. So I've been able to hold on and stuff. So 200 pairs, what is the, I guess your most prized possession sneaker that you have in your collection? Would it be those ones or was it some of those? It would be those ones for sure just because of how I got them and like what I appreciate about them if I was to tell the story is like I bought them for the pure love. Like I had no idea about hype or energy or even that there wasn't a thing that Jordan Ones were a thing. None of that just was like seeing a product that I liked that and I got it and it turned out to be something that was very heralded in my school and for that time, but that was not even in my psyche as I was looking at the sneaker while it was just like that shoe, silver swoosh. Yes. So that's the one for you. Yeah. Okay, what is the greatest sneaker of all time? Oh, wow, this is it. Whoa. Okay, let's put some context and some parameter. I'm gonna ask them to follow up. I'll answer.  We're talking about like comfort, what it did for culture, performance, look. I know, that's what I try to tell people when they ask me the question. They be like, what's the greatest sneaker of all time? And I'm like, oh, why Air Force One? That's what I say. I'm like, it's like hands down, number one seller for Nike, it goes with everything. There's so many different boxes it checks. So I always say, oh, I Air Force One. I'm gonna say Jordan bread for black. Ooh. Like that one, like the one for me, there's three shoes that have the best shapes in the industry. Okay. Jordan for Air Max One, New Balance 997. Ooh, yeah. Like the shape, the stance on those products are best in class, like that is the bar. Okay. And then that Jordan for like colorway, anywhere, like I feel like that's one of those shoes. If I walk into a room and somebody has on exclusive Louis Vuitton Virgil Air Force Ones and somebody has on Balenciaga this and da da da da. Like I won wearing those in the room. Like you are always in the conversation. Right, right, right. Like those are not like, it's always like a, oh, like a double thing, no matter what you're like. So what do you think about the leather pair coming out next year? I'm excited for those. I'm sure, have you seen them yet? No, I haven't seen them in person. I've seen them on, no, I- You're gonna have to go to work next week and be like, let me see them shoes. Yeah, I'm a hermit, but I've seen them on the internet and I'm excited for those because that's one of the reasons I don't wear those a lot is because I really, really like them. So I want them to stay pristine and that tear needed that material. It's one brush and I'm out of it. And leather though. The leather though is gonna be easy because Portland and Rainy, like, so I'm excited for those. I haven't seen them in person, but they're gonna be nice. That seemed to start right. That's gonna be a good shoe. Okay, well that wraps it up. Thank you. I appreciate you pulling up. Yes. You know, if we got any other new topics or conversations or new jobs you can get or whatever you wanna tell us a story, just hit me up and we can run another episode. Thousand percent, thousand percent. Okay. You wanna tell them your social media? You wanna do that or are you still hermit crab? You just hide behind the scenes. No, I know hide the scenes. No, please. If you want to follow me on social at Debra Dom, that's my IG, it'll be a picture to me on there. So welcome if you end up following me. I call everybody friends, so hi friends. All right, I'll have all that link down below in the description. If you guys are watching this, don't forget to subscribe if you're listening. I think you hit the follow button. I don't know, I'm still learning podcasts. Either way, appreciate you guys as always. Make sure you guys hit that download button too. I heard that was important. You gotta hit the download button. So they can know when new episodes come. Yes, download and you gotta tell them to leave a comment. Yeah, leave a comment and a five star rating. That part. I need all that. All of the things. All of the things. Bye.