Hello everybody! If it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer, and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly. Joining me, as always, is my one and only co-host and my oldest friend, for some reason. Tom, what's up buddy? How you doing? I mean, checks out. Hello friends. Good to have you on, Tom. Also, joining us again, the most dangerous man in Age of Sigmar, the one and only Mr. Mephisto. How are you in math? I am living the dream. Not my dream, but someone's dream. That's important. That's what's important. Alright, so tonight, we're going to talk about Ossiarch Bone Reapers in Age of Sigmar 3.0. We're going to get in to them bone daddies. So from here on out, it's just going to be a lot of bone daddy talk, so, you know, I guess, get into it. Better hold on tight. Yeah, I did, yeah. So, but of course first, as always, the news. What do we got, Tom? A rumour engine? We do.  Yes, okay, great. No, cool. No, this is chaos dwarfs that are definitely coming.  Yeah. They're rubber manufactured tires. I was going to make the rubber. It's magic. They had dwarfs. They're dwarfs, like they runesmithed it or something. That's not a tire. That's an intricately carved rune. Yeah, absolutely. That might as well say good year on the side, but instead of that, we'd have to be like, if it was chaos dwarfs, they'd have to be like bad year or something like that. That would be the level of pun. Yeah. Amazing. Yes, it is clearly a 40k thing, so we can move on to the more important news, the IDNF Fire Slayer box. Well, let's start with the Fire Slayer guy, because we did get his rules since the last show. So, Tom. And not only his, like everybody's rules. Yeah, sure. We got a lot of day rules. We'll talk about all of them, but that came by way of people who had the box. Right. The pre-use. So, but the official article, they shared out this guy. This guy here. We sculpt, by the way, like triple Mohawk. I'm a big fan. They're like, well, how else will you improve this? Three Mohawks. I mean, it's not pants. Could have been pants. It could have been pants or boots, but three Mohawks. It could have been pants, but it's not. So, the three Mohawks distinguishes him from the other three sculpts that have Fire Slayers holding flaming axes one hand and lifting something else up with the other. It's the triple Mohawk that actually distinguishes him. Right. By the way, I do want to shout out real quick. Master Shake 9000 said bad year is what the old Rogue Traders second edition work vehicles had on their tires. Of course it was. That is, I knew I was hitting at the Games Workshop pun level. That's just a great callback, then. That's right. That's right. So for friends. Easy. All right. So, here's the guy's rules. He has this master flame rune, which is obviously his thing.  We love that. We love that. We might as carry dice around with them that aren't their wound counter. So no issues there at all. So he carries this little dice around with him. And if a Fire Slayer model is slain within 12 of him, he gets a little, a little pip on his die. Okay. Yep. Yep. And then once he starts the combat phase. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Okay. Hold on. So let's get this right. But we need to mentally get in the right space. So you have a high wound, low model count army. Yes. Correct. So we're in need to remove five of these guys. Before the rule triggers. Before the rule even triggers. Okay. Go on. Okay. Right. So we lost five guys. And once we've done that, once per turn at the start of the combat phase, if it's six, you can say it draws upon the power of the runes. And you can pick a friendly Orak Hearthgard. Hearthgard berserkers or Volkite berserkers. Basically any of the infantry, any non-hero units. It amuses me that by listing three units, they could have replaced the same thing with non-hero. Non-hero. And future proof to this. But if you ever wanted proof that you're not getting any additional units for this army ever, it's in this rule right here. Because they know they could have written non-hero and future proofed it. So when they came out with something new, it could have, it would have applied naturally to them as well. But nope. They blew right by that opportunity. We're like, there's no world where we add more units to this army. This is the first time you see Shawn Michaels slap his like, for sweet chin music moment. Like it's just, the magic is ruined forever. Right. I see you two wrestling stands in the audience there. AOS coach. So, and then if they're wholly within 12, you get one of the following effects.   You can have multiples of these guys running around who can both get credit as it were for a death. So that is to say you could have two of them and have them like, if five guys died, they both suddenly go to six. That is true. And unlike most other effects like this, they can be, a single unit could absorb multiples of these buffs. That is important to note. With everything else like, slobbyty or stuff like that, obviously a little easier to activate in those cases. You, those are all limited to one. Right. Like you can't have multiple slobbyty biopipers use magic fart sounds to affect a unit. Okay. So you can get a ward of six up, which is basically worthless with some of the aforementioned units and not that great otherwise. You can, they can get death frenzy. Which one of the units already has. Right. Which one of the units already has, but it's also bad death frenzy because it only works if they haven't yet fought. It's not good death frenzy where before they removed, they fight like a lot of people have that kind of death frenzy. It doesn't matter if they fought already or not. So you can technically get two fights out of them. You can immediately attempt to charge, which is the best one on this list. I will die on that hill because charging at the start of the combat phase is super powerful. You can bring another unit into combat that they didn't want to fight. You can try to get on one of your heroes or something and suddenly you're in combat with them and you're killing their hammer unit with a fight they didn't want to have.  Like, that is, that is a good ability. I'm not going to throw shade at that one. Off cycle charging is good. Okay. And then Grimnear's vengeance. You can add one of the damage characteristic of that unit is melee weapons, which, you know, also good. Reliable. That's the second best one. The damage is good. Okay. It's the least circumstantial. Yeah, absolutely. Like it's just generally good to do more damage. I should note that it's only melee weapons because this is the combat phase. And one of the three units that can be affected here is a shooting unit that doesn't want to be in melee and is pretty bad at it. But, you know, okay. At any rate. So Tom. Now this guy's what? Like 80 points? This dude's super cheap. He is. He is. And so when I said, man, if this is a priest at 80 points, I am in. And here's the thing. They said this is a priest in the lore of the article. Funny story. He's not. He's only got the priestly ruin. He's, he's, he's, he's surveying over funeral rights of the, of the. He is wearing all the appropriate things. He does not have the priest key word. More than other priests in the army to denote how important he is. Yeah. He's only like a deacon or a minister or something. He hasn't. Yeah. He hasn't got. Yeah. He can't do the right yet. Yeah. He doesn't have the authority to do the prayers. Okay. So here's the deal. Like I just maybe with a heavy Volkite list like where I had a block of 20, I might run one of these guys. Maybe. Sure. Okay. Um, because he's 80 points and his profile is not terrible for an 80 point hero. Right. So like he's somebody that I would actually stick in somewhere because I think he's doing like two damage a pop for attacks. Like that's not bad. Right. Yeah. He has a basic storm cast hero profile. Yeah. Right. And again, at 80 points, it's not terrible. Right. But man, like I just, there's a lot of really like high octane heroes in this army and this dude is not it. Um, anytime that you're having to rely on abilities that require you to remove models in an army that has already low model count and in an army that has no way to naturally replace those models, that is a losing strategy. Period. Hmm. And so like his text may may as well say if some Laura now, but here's one of the are you not considering the blood type effect here?  I get to move this dice up a bit. That's fun. I get to do with it. Yeah.  No, I mean, here's the deal. That is cheap. He is. He is. All I will say is this. Like I'm not. I mean, I'm pretty negative on him. I'm going to be honest. What I will say is that I don't hate. Again, like increasing all of a vote like 15 remaining Volkites all on damage to with neg one rend. That's not terrible, especially, you know, with your rune of reroll wants to hit like if you trigger it on the right turn, this might be some neat anti shooting tack for the army.  Like this actually gives you something to punch back with. Sure. After you've lost those models. And so there are a couple strats. There are a couple like corner cases where I could see this. This working. But the problem is that this has been paired with a. Bit kicking. I don't know how else to say it to basically all the war scrolls in this box. Okay. Yeah. I mean, let me say it this way. I think this guy will show up in every army that gets played. You really think so? I do. Because he's too cheap. He's cheap as chips and he's a win for losing effect. And anything that gives you damage to shows up in armies. Period. End of story. Okay. Like you're going to lose models. This is AOS.  There's no reason that's whoever remains damaged to for 80 points. Period. He'll be in one combat phase. Whatever. It doesn't matter. Yeah. I mean, that's often what ends up happening is one swing. Exactly. I mean, ask every iron jaws player how much they value plus one damage. Okay. Yeah, I know. So I just. No. So he'll be in every list. Period. Because if you don't like, when's the last time you flawless victory to game? No, I understand. And 80 points is super cheap. I get that too. I really do. Yep. And like, so maybe the right answer is to run him with your screen behind your screen to empower the like. Screen of Volkites. Enemies. And then the right comes in and kills whatever is there. Yes. For the kind of a strike powered by this guy. So yeah, maybe that's fine. I just like, I, I don't know, man. So let's talk high level. We'll do, we'll do all the, like I'm, I don't care that much about all the rules changes to IDK and fireslayers because I just think I don't even know if they're real. Like that is sometimes they've changed rules and boxes and then a book comes out and they have suddenly new rules again. That's happened with multiple armies in the past in these, in these boxes. Not at the effect. Yeah. Totally. Sure. Because these boxes get printed so far in advance of the actual book being printed even because stuff has to come from China and all that. So whatever, maybe this is the final rules. Maybe it's not the important part that I think we all are happy about and want to stick is Nomarty got a two inch reach. Let's be honest. That's it boys. We won. Sorry, fireslayers, but you know, it took people screaming two entire editions though. But we got to hold IDK got in right under 2.0. Right. Like it came out in first ed like in that sort of in between. It took two entire editions of people saying give thralls two inch reach.  And it is games workshop. I know you're listening. It is it's spoiler. It's just the way you go with it should be the exception that things have shorter reach than than the longer reach on that on that base size. Yeah. I hear I hear that and I'm going to let you speak, but you finish. But the fact that every single fireslayer unit in the box, which was all of the troops, all of them got worse. Sure. Universally, all of them with the exception of force and force for your one axe that you throw now at not even not even your charge range.  Not even an average charge range. Eight. Like whoever was crunching the math on that, they're like, okay, do they have some like chaos number we need to worry about? That's why we know. No, we're just going to set it to eight arbitrarily. And that's what it is. Like nine inches make sense because deep strikes, seven inches make strike because average charge, 12 inches make sure because that is charge range. Like literally any other number. Like, I guess you're outside of six inch pilot. My fix for those axes would have been to remove it from the war scroll, not make it better. But anyways, go ahead, Tom. No, I mean, I don't disagree with the events, but I mean, the problem here is that like bodyguarder got removed from the oryx. So they actually don't serve a function anymore. Like previously, like they had, they had a function. Now they're just a bad range unit that you can ally in better range units for. Yeah, they're just, they're just shooters and and average shooters at best. Yes. Right. Can I reset this mask? I'll go finish your point, Tom. I would say you can have five of these guys or a gun hauler. You pick. Yeah, sure. I mean, so like that got worse. The only thing that I will say. Is that pick in shield. It moves their save to a four up base. For Volkites. For Volkites, but they're like 170 for 10. Sure. So I just, I don't know, man. I like, I saw this and I was like, well, that book better be really good. So first, yeah, I mean, this is my point. This is why it's not worth talking about because as Berserk 2112 just pointed out, bodyguard could be in the allegiance abilities, which I actually don't disagree with. Right. And that's the problem. We have so little of this picture. It's hard to say. It's a weird thing to remove when we don't have the books. When are we going to get the books? My honest answer is I bet not anytime soon. Yeah, I bet probably accurate. I like, if you wanted me to put hard money down on a month, I'd slap a tenner on March. Oh, really? Yeah. Oof. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get them before like May. No, I don't, I just, I don't think it's going to be that long. I mean, things, some things are greatly delayed, but I just not that far back.  Hit me. Oh, I just wanted to reset on master Flameroon, or a flame keeper here. Um, like, they, I loved where their design space actually went. Like, it reminds me of like a berserker effect, like kind of what they're going for here. And I love the idea that he's like prying the ergold out of corpses and like it's actually cool. Maybe it's the death player. They just, they took it right up to the, like, they got the breakaway steel. They went up for the dunk and they just bam, off the rim. You know, it was just, it was right there. Um, if there's an allegiance ability that modifies his dicing, you know, who knows? Like if there's, there's some stuff, like there's so much that allegiance abilities can do to those warp scrolls. There can be so much gas in allegiance plus free rules and sub allegiance now that everyone kind of, we've just agreed now everyone gets free rules. Like, there, there's, what if that extra attack that's just missing off of every warp scroll is just in an allegiance ability somewhere or just in a sub allegiance, like there's, there's so many other pieces here that are missing. It, it doesn't feel worth, I don't know. It, it's hard to make a prescriptive judgment, but I know like two Fire Slayer fans are like really excited at all. What are the other two things? Um, and so I'm just going to like warm my hands by that fire forever. Like that's, like just, Yeah, just two, but I mean that's like half the Fire Slayer players in the world. So correct. Yeah. That's the trick. So we got, we got half of them. So it's not a bad, good. Yeah. No, great margin. We'll already punching above the clip for everyone else. Absolutely. All right. Tom, what else? Uh, that's all the news. It's quiet. Yeah, that is. Yeah. Like obviously the box is coming out this week. Uh, let me just say, uh, do you think this box is going to sell well? No. I don't think so either. I don't know. Like I, like, I am a Fire Slayer player. I looked at it and I was like, No, because it contains Fire Slayers. So by default, it will not sell well. It's that easy. This is math. Okay. That'd be like, if, if my tacos that I sold you also came with a punch in the face. Am I going to sell a lot of tacos? Probably not. I will sell some. They're over there out there. Okay. But not a lot. And that's the problem with including Fire Slayers. It's a punch.  I said they're weirdos. I didn't say none. I said not as many. It's a difference. No, I just. Fire Slayers are the Fermi's paradox of, of Aegis Sigma. Like I, I hear tons of people talking about Fire Slayers wanting Fire Slayers buffs. Like the Fire Slayers is the army for them and so on and so forth. I never see anyone actually playing them. Where are they? Like where are all the Fire Slayers players? Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Well, it is a bad army. Like even, even when they were pound for pound better than Petrifex Elite when, when Petrifex Elite was the thing everyone was mulling over a whole edition ago, they did everything Petrifex Elite was doing and better and had a teleport. They weren't anywhere to be seen. Yeah. It's, it's the aesthetic. That's completely what it is. Like I've said many times on all of our aesthetic surveys, they were always one of the lowest, if not the lowest faction. So that's it. That's it. That's what moves. It's an expensive army too. Like I hate to say it, but like it is an army based on five troops for $45. It's slightly more expensive, but it's not like the cost. Yeah. We're not talking about the differences between like, oh, this army is $10,000 and every other army is $500. Like, okay, fine. Like I'm not saying there's not a marginal impact there, Tom. On the issue of $200, $300 you have to spend, but this hobby's super expensive. Okay. Sure. Like lots of people spend too much money on their armies. We're talking that is an effect at the margins. One, two percent. You know, aesthetics matter. Period. What sells boxes? How cool something is. Discussion more or less ends there.  If it's old, it doesn't matter or already widely available competitive players just go buy it second hand. So they move no additional units. It's the aesthetic. Like, when they make a new release that looks super sweet, it blows the units away. End of story. Right? Like, yeah. Sylvanath has had crappy rules for most of its existence and people still buy the heck out of all those trees because people think they look really cool. It's that easy. That's an army that people are passionate to start playing Age of Sigmar 4. Yeah. That's one of those armies that pulls people into our hobby. Like, how many people are like, I'm thinking about starting Sylvanath and you're like, you have to give them the talk. You're like, ah.  I mean, you're not right. You're wrong. All right. Let's move on. Next up. Pick of the week. All right. Where are we at here? All right. Taken too long. That's where we are. All right. So pick of the week. Mef, what would you like to share with everybody? Since we're going to be talking about Bone Daddies all night tonight, I decided I would I would go ahead and stand someone with an unfortunate acronym to counterbalance it. Talking about Japan's United Gaming Society. That is Jugs. You can find them on YouTube. He releases, well, they release two videos a week. One sort of hobby focused video, really good hobby going on and a lore one that with the Old World coming, they're kind of filling all the holes in like Old World lore and then also sort of building little parlays into Age of Sigmar lore. I think it's a really good time if you're if Old World's on your mind, unlike mine, which I'm not even thinking about Old World really, but if you are, I think it's a really good place for that plus, you know, just that sort of cross pollination checking what another part of the world's passion is like for Warhammer Japan. Some place we don't hear from a lot.  So I want to I want to start advertising it earlier this year. Late July, early August, I'm going to be doing the rantathon three. So we've raised $17,000 for Mental Health America in two years. I would like to keep that momentum going and I got my first grand prize box of stuff in. That's all over Twitter right now, painted by Ulf Paints, a friend of a friend of my show and Steller looking at my show and Steller looking at my show and Steller looking at my show and Steller looking at my show and Steller looking at Necron's. So that's just one of several perhaps prizes. So just to let people know, rantathon's common.  Store it away. Very nice. It's going to be a lot of fun again. I look forward to joining you maybe this year. I'll write another RPG. We'll see what happens. All right. Play one live. Who knows? Tom, what's your pick? She's going to say I have two picks this week. Okay. The first of them is a long time friend of the show. Doom and Darkness is back again, hitting, hitting, hitting our community where it where it hurts. Just dropping hard to see us. Where it's relevant. Talking about our orientation as gamers towards our hobby and whether we're ashamed of it. Yeah. Dropping some truth bombs and it was a excellent video. I want to encourage you to check it out. I want to encourage Doom to keep making these videos. These kind of introspective videos on our hobby. So good job, Doom. It's excellent. Wonderful video. I highly encourage everyone to check it out. Related to the news today. Before you go into the next one, I do want to get your next block in your head. Don't lose it. It's not going to work. Okay.  Not at all. Okay. Do you talk about it with other non-hobby people? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is a weird one. It was a weird one for me. Mef, what about you? Mef, what about you? Am I ashamed of my hobby? Absolutely not. But I can't keep my mouth shut. So... Let's just talk about it because... No, this is... I love that Doom's back and he's the he is the OG as far as I'm concerned. He's the first content creator I've ever watched. I've been pretty public about that. My show, his videos in his truck, just talking about how passionate he was about Warhammer. For me, that's like... That was the OG Doom. That's the original Rantcast. And that is... To see him back to that format with the introspection, with the Rants, just going through it, it's awesome. And the last video he did had me like... Had me have some thoughts, you know? It was like seeing him... I mean, you... I'm sorry, I don't know we're going through this a little bit late. But you guys have interviewed people far more than I have.  Almost everybody you interview has this like period of time where they stop Warhammer and they come back to it. Sure. Very common, yes. And for him to kind of have that like in real time in front of us has been this like just this thing that has made me go introspect of myself and like kind of reassess my journey and stuff. So I think I'm not ashamed of my hobby but I don't feel shame. Sure. Yeah, I mean for me I... It's interesting because you know, one of the points he talked about was like you know, having friends that aren't into the hobby or something like that. I don't like have any such friends. Like I have a very small Tom knows the way to treat friends. If you're like in my friend group then you have cleared quite a hurdle because you have no time for people. You have no idea how resistant this man is to new people. Correct. It's absolutely correct. And like if you talk to Vince at a convention he'll be perfectly a perfect gentleman, right? And he'll engage you and it'll be great. But for the like for the circle, right? Yes. This man lets no one in the boundary. Correct. Yeah. It is a it is a North Korean demilitarized zone you have to cross to get in here. Okay. And so like my only, my friends I either play D&D with them and certainly they all know I wore him or I don't talk about wear him or a huge amount with them not for any embarrassing reason just because it's not overlap. Occasionally some of them do because they don't care about it. Right. So I just you know D&D or whatever D&D or whatever talk to them about that and then everybody else I know plays wherever that's it. Like that's the whole beginning and end of my friend list. End of list. End of list. So it's like I don't have any other friends. I don't talk about it at work because I have no occasion to talk about it at work. If someone asks me like people at work of course come across the fact that I'm on the internet and they're like do you do shows about wearing them? I'm like, yeah. Sure. Yeah. That is me. That's what I do and I'll explain it if they want to know that I actually ask a question like do you really want to know? I'll tell you. So yeah, I mean, but I thought it was a good message because I think a lot of us do create that separation in ourselves and feel ashamed of it and there's nothing to be ashamed of it is a passionate, creative, engaging hobby and like hey look now's the time of the nerd baby. That's it. We won. That's forever. Yeah. Yeah. The most successful like products on the planet are all nerd shit like just go down to whether it's Star Wars or Warhammer 40 K is out Hasbro and Hasbro right now like which is all board games basically Marvel Comics like it's all just crushing like the status quo the guard has changed right like we've had a changing of the guard now is the time to be proud of your hobby compartmentalization isn't a bad thing in and of itself but no no I just think some people I think we overdo it to some degree right like I think some people feel like because you're compartmentalizing you're ashamed and I don't think that's true you could you right now fine to just not bore people with stuff they don't care about but that's a different and that's the key is like do you really care like do you want to know if you're sure I'll tell you about my hobby when I'm in the social professional settings and like you know we'll be sitting around having a drink or whatever and they'll be like hey Tom tell about how you're really famous on the internet and I'm like come on not really like there's a very small small subsection of culture that knows who I am very small but it's always a weird thing to have to frame and I don't have a problem with it but I think Vince I think I do sure I can talk about like as this show has demonstrated I can talk about Warhammer for very long periods of time it's not an issue for me it's just interesting is it interesting right and for some reason people enjoy coming and watching us for hours each week talk about Warhammer and you know what awesome we love that you are here but I also recognize that not everybody enjoys that what's your second pick Tom hit me yeah so Graham Lyon who is the Warhammer community commissioning editor posted a a face or a Twitter thread this last week or so just asking soliciting photos of fire slayers and item and that thread was woefully underpopulated by photos where he was like send us your photos and then like fire slayers three fire slayers players posted and like seven so here's my community call here's the call to action folks if you are a fire slayer or item player go post your army photos on Graham's page because somebody has to buy this box and we're gonna like I want to motivate people to you know to support these armies that are anybody's buy list well I mean IDK very well maybe but that's one of the best ways you're not wrong you want to inspire to sell more look at cool armies painted like nothing inspires me more than looking at other people do awesome things with their armies right to be creative with them to see painted armies it's what inspires me every day and night 100% Hondo P you'll have to send me the link for that okay yeah I definitely will there was actually there was a beautiful uh uh uh Ben Ben Spinetti posted his wonderful IDK army in there and it was just stunning so check it out check out the thread you can see a bunch of beautiful armies if you have one of those armor please please post them inspire others love it alright let's get to some hobby time Mep what have you been working on buddy what's what's on your desk there all overtaken by uh my pounds and pounds legions and legions of uh of undead for soul-blind grave lords now you might be saying to me Mephisto you already owned like 5,000 points of legions of the gosh to which I would say you're right but what you were saying about good sculpts sell armies see all these really awesome new sculpts came out for exactly the same shit I owned so clearly the responsible thing to do was to buy hundreds of all of it just hundreds of dollars right so I've got like my little grave guard conversion here he's got the right hand katana um I've got a 10 blood knights built another 10 in boxes I've got all of the Vircos built all of them just building and building and building I also have a spray booth set up here cause I'm about to take a punch on an air brush way too clean but yeah like I could clock that thing has not been used from the moment you joined the stream cause I'm like that is not how a used air brush booth looks yeah that is not on the air brush hose didn't give it away huh it was the clean it was the blue filter the blue filter is what gave it away that thing stays blue for 8 seconds yeah no I built a creature caster zombie but I sort of kit bashed the how to here and I needed something to put in it so I grabbed our NB Overlord Anasta yeah perfectly in there and gave them the point because I wanted the biggest fly me over there I want to hit it with my sword energy I could get I felt bad cause I didn't have cat dragon it's okay I bought a second one so I I did I did too I I am a responsible adult I swear that's fine look if you're making your house payment and keeping your family fed then you're good in my brother alright awesome Tom what have you been working on uh luminous yes I am on the good thing about stuff actually you've been on it I am I am I am forging through because I have not next weekend but the weekend after that I think I'm I think that's the Columbus weekend I think that's Brewhamer and I have a night haunt army that I have to finish for that but I wanted to get this army at least base coated and and washed like two of my three steps done on every model before um to get it ready for holy wars when we have our next team event um and these uh luminous take way more time than my night haunt do so I'm trying to get them done first and then I will and if I have to like I can pinch in on my night haunt and just take what I have painted and it'll be fine so I don't need to like I'm not planning on winning any painting any painting anything I'm just going to do hammer given that I know that you're going to be at the events it's fine uh yeah for myself it does feel like that event is closer I probably should actually figure out we need to figure out the display board thing um that's fine you do uh but whatever I've been painting other things and having fun yeah so okay cool um I finished up the first model for Miniac's Kickstarter um that's coming next month he sent me the the pack of them and so I I finished up that one and uh that video will release next month uh I'm working on this guy right now uh who is not going to show up at all in there but he is an environmental lighting piece uh which is this cool demon thing he's a 3D print you're going to ask me where he's from he's going to tell you I don't know where he is whooo spooky um he has a little under lighting he's going to be a video sometime in the future about atmospheric lighting uh this is for uh our buddy by the way this is for for Dan uh he gave this like this is for his a demon prints for him uh and then I'm going to probably then I have to do either that stupid display board but I want to paint another model from Miniac's Kickstarter we'll see if I'm responsible or not who knows um probably I can work on both at once because most of the early part of working on a display board is like cutting styrofoam and then gluing it together and then letting it sit for a day that's exactly right yeah so it's not like it takes a lot of time uh alright so but I'm excited about this demon dude he's coming out fun and he was a good chance to to play with lighting things alright let's get into it about O B R them bone daddies bringing them up okay so the bone daddies in Age of Sigmar 3.0 is this the most 2.0 army yes is it the Book of Nine Swords yes if you know that reference congratulations uh but is it an army that's had a few changes recently some things have moved around uh we're going to start with a little summary what is this meant to be okay and Mepha I'm going to read my stuff and then I want to go to you oh you're good man alright I think what this is meant to be I want to to thwart the power point like yeah what like this army seems to be thematically like you look at it narratively what do they want okay they want this attrition force that wins in the grind right heavy reliance on their core troop the more tech guard it's like their phalanx force it was held up in early 3.0 by Nagash so that is likely changed it felt like it was designed to work like a legion like a Roman legion or something right we have sort of infantry to hold cavalry to counter charge elite troops to strike soft points artillery to support I don't know that it's really played out like that in reality right it has it is a relatively small army though not amongst the smallest it's not iron jaws or fire slayers like we were talking about there are eight non-hero troops in the army so that places it on the mid-small side what not three yes I understand like I said it's not iron jaws or fire slayers I call it pseudo elite because more tech honestly weren't as elite as I thought they were going to be when we all first looked at them I expected them to be cast warrior or storm cast type equivalents where they were all kind of like on 32s or something you know with like two wounds each like I thought they were Nagash's attempts to make storm cast they were narratively they are rules-wise storm cast are sigmar's attempt to make to make a more tech guard because Nagash was making his project first clearly you know for you lord nerds out there I'm just saying if I had to do the who wore it better sorry but it was definitely the storm cast there that's all there is to it all right is math I'm going over to you is my summary relatively correct is there anything I left out what do you think no I think you kind of nailed it I can test the held up by Nagash early type thing in that it was something they could do and it was seeing play but it wasn't like they were like even really like rockin four and one best death winning tournaments like it wasn't even with they were piloted by the Owen Jackson yes correct right yeah like it so I mean even that would that's like a little bit of an oversell of early 3.0 I think and then as far as the design to work like the classic fallings force they kind of got there like you're usually some more tech guard with a with a with a ad unit of like Cavalos as like a keep back unit to you know go and do some stuff you never saw their elite like their more elite troops though which is honestly a crime because they're awesome like this they like they look cool don't you want Goro super shredder Skellington's I do like and yeah you know relatively small pseudo elite one of the big selling points for me who as as aforementioned has way too many other undead types of armies I like the idea of pushing around like only 50 models for once instead of like 120 you know I I liked that idea I thought that was really cool like double the number I generally push around yeah I get it 50 that's so many yeah but yes it's pseudo elite it's not it's not a horse yeah I get it I mean you're undead so like there's you still want to feel like you've got the like undead bits and like it felt like they really hit that for me and 2.0 it felt like they kind of hit that that stride in between like what I wanted and like how it played in terms of that like okay a less mental bandwidth being used up physically piloting my army but I still get to like her her her laugh and Regen's and Skellington's you know so yeah summary on the tin checks out for me okay Tom anything else on the summary no I mean I think it's accurate like it's they like it's been a long journey for this army because it like it's been just like running from one crunch to another right um you know for it was a sub faction for a while and then it was in a gosh and then it just yeah like I feel for OBR players people can go back to the episode where I got my moniker and became the most dangerous man when I said that that the army was like it was covering up some flaws of the army and people were too busy complaining about like Petrifex Elite to see that there were things that needed addressing and it's weird how correct I've been it like in no I totally agree it's it's very much like in a it is it is in a state where Lumineth could be if you like nerfed sentinels and techless let's say into the ground yeah right yeah like you still have a pretty decent infantry force you know your main like your main still slap and people are still surprised when they bounce into them and get blended currently right now like yeah the more tech warden like analogy is spot on right where it's a solid infantry many armies would be happy to have them perfectly fine but on its own their shoulders aren't broad enough to carry the whole force to victory they're mainly relying on so they were sort of mainly relying on other two efficient tricks or whatever right yeah yeah so okay cool beans although it's not this this army has some complexity but not near at the level of I'm just holding my tongue of LRM I just didn't want people to over read into my analogy there so there we go yeah all right let's talk about some of the changes that have happened recently okay because this this army has had a series of two fairly significant changes that have happened recently so the winter FAQ had some changes that really impacted OBR not points but I have the points here too right and a lot of that came through Nagash right this is this is change number one was the winter FAQ so Nagash had some big changes all as as did all the the big god characters of a two way right kind of like they focused on them exclusively for the big winter FAQ and ignored everything else yeah indeed so we're gonna flip over to Nagash in just a moment I think the important part about this that I want to just mention right here is that one of the changes they sort of made across the board for the most part and I don't hate this change in concept is that these cross-faction gods are now now sit above the army that they join like they don't absorb the allegiance abilities of the armies they join which thematically narratively I have zero issue with right it makes sense yeah like I didn't join up with OBR and suddenly that's who I am no I'm Nagash you're here with me joining me yeah you're like you join me yep yep perfect so like you know that makes sense the same for Archeon and so on and so forth right same with Cragnos and what not but I mean it really had an impact on his play in OBR because because Ozzy Arc Bone Reapers has their own set of rules that like they they have this own little weird kitty pool they play in and Nagash is still sitting over here in the normal pool of the game like hey guys what's up what's going on over in your little pool you know and so but they don't cross over anymore at all he goes into Ozzy Arc Bone Reapers and can no longer use a command ability on his own war scroll like they allow him to use that command ability sure um but he can't use like general one but they had to adjust it right they had to they had to Arata it further like within the Arata like he doesn't have a death save cross faction wise like the god of death like just doesn't have that anymore like just nope no death save like you don't I don't know but like you said like there should be a god package you know like all the god models just get the package like they you know stand on a mountain they they should probably all be immune to death effects like every one of them across the game they should all probably know the allegiance spells like they should the god that's fine but like Nagash was kind of relying on going into Ozzy Arc Bone Reapers specifically and scooping up some allegiance abilities to like that's what he was doing kind of differently so like Ravelers he really doesn't care about their allegiance abilities he's not using them he doesn't he doesn't care um and I'd say knight hon in fact he wasn't using them before and so now that he's even there to begin with his kind of like hey hooray right but in Ozzy Arc Bone Reapers like the cheekier like Johnny builds you're doing stuff where you're running in um in um uh uh Staliarch Lords which shouldn't have made anyone upset it's like the most hilarious like he flies in and like he runs in charges and he retreats over you and he's flying around and he's just nothing personal kidding you like nothing personnel kid teleporting around like playing like an anime character awesome you know sure in Petrifex Elite negating Ren looks neat but you put him in Staliarch Lords it's way more fun like um but yeah so he was like getting something special and they said like to use a hey woe ism fun detected no fun allowed like just um I think that was kind of one of the bigger crimes and just like sort of ancillarily when you have that word that we all hate which is you know ludonarrative dissonance two words I suppose like he suddenly forgets how to issue command abilities when he goes into the most elite tactical version of undead right like he just just can't uh forgot how to like tell things to rally now like all right man like you do you bro right and sorry sorry your rules overlap yeah or no all out of salt Nagash you cannot have a lot of salt for yourself anymore yeah he had to do it here yep all the mindless undead you can do it over there with all the mindless idiot undead like 120 zombies in the gosh you're good the tactical genius is her like no can't do it or even yourself right right yeah yeah he can't do it for himself correct he can't use any other command abilities except the one on his war scroll and he uses that for an RDP yes so he can let's get this right he can in another army use those on himself but with when he's a nobody are he's like no no no I'm gonna self limit myself while I'm here yeah I didn't build these guys to know this stuff the problem is as Meph said he's been working on the army so long now is that the challenge he can't give himself the command he's really focused on the project Tom he hasn't adjusted to the new world yet when he goes into the other armies the trick is he's got those hot-blooded vampires or whatever who are around and who are like yo Nagash you heard about this all-out attack thing bro it's crazy you should give it a try and he's like oh cool and he and he's like I see now he gets he gets that's a zoomer all-out attack that's like a zoomer thing okay he's boomer he's trying to boomer Nagash doesn't know that until he gets over there into the army with the young kids or it's an ego Montoya thing where like he's like like why are you smiling he's like oh you know I know something you don't not left-handed you know and then like he throws the rapier over into the other hand and joins joins a soul by grave lords or whatever yeah so he just stays left-handed the entire time in OBR correct correct he plays the long game it's it's yes azer weekly has dropped in some really great comments by the way in the chat which I love everybody should give a like just because azer weekly is funny there's nothing to do with us you should just like it anyways because he's here dropping these awesome comments I particularly liked god of death faces performance anxiety when deployed with elite shock troops yes absolutely correct great headline yeah so hit that like button subscribe do fun things alright so the points adjustments are almost nothing to speak of I don't know that anybody played Xantos I don't know that I ever saw him in many lists he hilariously is fine when you ran catapults before in mortis or in the moratoriums exactly in 2.0 you would specifically bring his Xantos for re-rolling a bunch of gnarly stuff oh I'm so thankful they adjusted his points then yeah he's now cheaper than the generic version which is we've done like mission accomplished banner it gets hung we finally done it a hero is cheaper than its generic version a named hero the one who has ascended the ranks of that thing as finally yeah but as we can see it's often not enough I mean look shellaxes cheaper than the regular keeper's secrets I don't know that's making any difference either but like and then volk mortian which is comical at down 20 to move 150.5 point model down 20 points is a bold statement and I still don't think anybody will play him but that really says nothing it really says something about how much you screwed up the first guy we were ever introduced to in the first teaser trailer for OBR which was a great trailer was volk morian some people weirdos to go out there and just start a podcast that's how good that trailer was and you know what the best part about it is? what's that? he was probably seen more in that trailer than he's ever seen in the battlefield also true and then catechrose came down 20 which is fine that was actually a good change just not that a bunch of people are playing catechrose although there are lists with catechrose around certainly he is in a couple potential builds so I'm getting cheaper is fine yeah he could probably come down like slightly more but that's fine he's approaching about as aggressively costed as one can be with just the sheer volume of abilities on that war scroll you know but your list isn't made or braided you're not making or breaking a list on catechrose right he's not an auto include necessarily he should be he's awesome enough like that sculpt is perfect so is volk morian mortian the low tan of the army? yes 100% yes he had a battalion where you might have maybe once upon a time maybe once seen him and now it's just like no he's 100% the low tan of the list it's a great call all right let's talk about Nagash specifically so here's a scroll and you know it's funny because you'd have to forgive people who weren't super tuned in to OBR for not understanding what the problem is right because like if you look at this scroll versus his old scroll and you're not like a bone daddy enthusiast you're like I don't get it what changed what's wrong I'm not really gonna see it hello old friend like he's still a wizard he still casts like an alarmingly large number of spells he works right and which he wasn't before he's a bonus genny and he can go into as previously mentioned now he can go into night haunt and fec as well so cool nothing to do with OBR but just as a note still has his alakinesh where he can arcane bolt like a million times then after he super saiyan it does the dbz thing and then goes and punches somebody into the atmosphere with 8 arcane bolts or 7 arcane bolts or something yeah that's correct he can still restore to 5 units that is to say like summonable or aceric bone reapers so they don't get called up by name here can't heal himself anymore though correct this is a nerf he cannot heal himself he still has his 4 plus ward against mortal wounds only only mortal wounds yeah he lost his death save he no longer has this but that again that's not on the scroll right it never was there and that's what I'm saying a lot of what changed is sort of sneaky in how he got implemented because it wasn't like it never said this guy has a 6 plus ward against wounds and mortal wounds on his scroll now as a point of fact he always did because whatever army you put him in he was a hero and absorbed that rule but now he doesn't and so I think it's just interesting how much things off scroll changed about him right true so it's and like his supreme lord of undead doesn't work with the things you'd want it to work with doesn't get locus of shyish anymore either correct I just want to flip tables every time I think about how much they hurt my boy like I'm the godfather right now and you know I think again importantly to OBR he had obviously this command ability that was like it had to go away had to go away obviously it needed to go away but the funny part is what's that OP is all heck across the whole army no range it was just re-roll ones to save which is awesome in OBR on a 4 up saving army unit or army kind of table wide nonbows a little bit with shield wall but then it makes your stalkers feel better so it's kind of cool across the whole army great in soul black grave lords like stellar it was but the re-roll ones to hit is really where you're like that was the money shot and then as a bonus good in soul black grave lords battle shock me across the table too beyond contestation just an insanely strong ability I was told by people when I was looking at Nagash coming into 3.0 with his points going he's over-costed they said no no no think of his command ability that's why he cost about 200 points too much and I went sure it was a very potent command ability arguably it was one of the strongest command abilities in the game I'm not saying the most I'm saying if you made a top 10 list of like value you get for one cp it would easily make that list it would be in the top 3 I'd agree and the interesting part about it was it was amplified in its power in OBR what I mean by that is like if you were in old legion or soul black depending on what you ran re-rolling ones to save and sometimes really wants to hit even kind of can have a effect because you might have a lot of dudes with like 5 up saves 6 up saves when you've got a bunch of low save people and you're re-rolling ones it's like okay because it just doesn't matter if you're saving on a 6 and you re-roll ones so one sixth of your ones becomes successful saves then it's a sixth of a sixth effectively you get a bonus 1 in 36 saves are successful just for rate of play with my skeleton style builds or my SPG modern builds I would just take I wouldn't even re-roll the saves because at that point you're looking at the regen as long as the unit is not getting wiped or it's not like a pivotal combat where it's coming down to the model I'll just scoop them off just for efficiency of playing because I'm the A-hole who chose to play a 200 model army so I need to be quicker that's on me so if you go to OBR where you oftentimes had people on three up saves pretty easily then all of a sudden re-rolling ones pays off a ton like a much much bigger dividend because then two thirds of that one sixth becomes successful it makes a big difference on the number and the quality of unit you're keeping is much much higher so that changed that's all gone now my point is to say that had an outsized impact on OBR versus the other armies he would have been found himself in previously we've been talking about how a bunch of things got nerfed off scroll because of the death saves and stuff like that about him coming into armies this is an example about him bringing into an army that he no longer brings and so the cut ended up going both ways because he no longer was benefitting from the things that the armies were bringing and now he's no longer bringing those things that he used to bring that made him worthwhile bringing it was just a double whammy for him particularly in OBR right so now his new thing is you pick a unit and they get plus 1 to ward roles for that combat base now look, plus 1 to ward is a pretty rarefied bonus to be honest I made my piece with this I had like that one day where I was emotional I saw like what they did to my boy and I made my piece with him he's like, Nagash got nerfed overall but Flesh Eater Quartz and Knight Hunt got a buff Osirac Bone Reapers really got nerfed and now I'm having like trauma flashbacks because they took away his add to be changed way too good commandability and they gave him a third rail ability in my mind I don't care that it's good it's something you shouldn't do you shouldn't be augmenting ward saves yeah I have a I will die on the hill of like re-rolling a ward is a never should be done and yet somehow Doc have done it through multiple books adding towards for me isn't quite as strong as you're saying but it's not far off like I like you're playing in space that is sacred yeah and here's what I was saying if it's on one model in the game and that one model is nearly a thousand points I'm probably okay with it so that would be like if we're talking about his own because he doesn't have one yeah but it also has to be an other unit yeah I know so he can't make his four out of three out of yes he can't even cheat for himself at a thousand points yes so and his spell is the same so whatever whatever the he still gets the spell lord and he knows the spell lord yes of whatever army he joins which is cool yeah but god package we're all on board with that it makes sense yes with it a a plus a plus work keep keep keep doing that no problems okay the point here is these subtle changes and off scroll changes combine even though when you read like whoa plus one to word save is a really unique thing the problem is it's one unit in one combat phase that they get it now you're dealing with rdp you have a lot more of them blah blah blah blah whatever it is but it's still nowhere near the same level right and it all this stuff combined to hit obr the hardest and take the gosh not out of the picture completely but certainly less effective in obr is that a fair statement you think well the way I had partitioned off my armies in the future the plans I was making so like grave lords is like kind of like my sandbox I go and I play in there and I have a lot of fun and the gosh was just going to live in off the arc bone reapers for 3.0 that was the only place I was going to pull him out because I was trying to wean myself off of playing him and these changes came down and I just went I'm like he doesn't like because that was his sandbox he went over and off the bone reapers and that was the gosh sandbox where he had all this fun and like and he's not like now he's just sad in the sandbox because it rained it's not like it sucks sure absolutely Tom anything we missed on big pop and the gosh no he just makes me sad in obr sure not not night haunt but he definitely makes me sad here sure yeah I mean closes the door opens a window type of thing right so when the gosh he closed the door to obr and opened the window of ghosts so yeah yeah no it's good no no flaunt it more yeah exactly alright so that was big change number one for obr alright let's talk about big change number two which I don't think I ever actually did my pick of the week because we got distracted but that's fine but I guess I'll talk about it now exactly as I intended which is goon hammer did a wonderful breakdown of the tome celestial credit to robert robert the shurgeon I don't know how to pronounce that I hope I'm saying it right shurgeon jones who did this awesome piece of artwork so that's super cool and the furl article is on goon hammer and linked below so go check that out if you want a deeper dive on everything related to their tome celestial but that was the second big change recently right they're getting their bone daddy white dwarf update which likely means no book is coming soon it gave some decent updates but still felt short of what many were hoping okay now I want to get an emotional reaction from you from from mef here mef when you heard that the bone daddies were getting a white dwarf update what was your immediate gut emotional reaction how did you feel about that can't swear on your show correct so I immediately went out I actually walked it began raining because such was my emotions so I actually instead of driving I walked to the nearest quick trip shout outs to my west stands who understand how great quick trip is and bought a 40 ounce of colt 45 and then I walked to the gutter and I immediately poured it out with my head still being rained upon even though it's cold months here in wisconsin immediately poured out the 40 because I knew wave 2 wasn't coming it was the minute that tome celestial did you like play walk in the rain off the cowboy bebop ost as well it was just a loop of walk in the rain I just gave up ost and the the credit song from the hulk live action TV show perfect perfect just into woven to and I just I poured it out the cloud followed exactly me it was it was rough because like I it's weird because like I had I'm like in like soul like I like I've played a lot of negash and I did the pronunciation just for you chat you're welcome I played a lot of negash I played him through the thick through the thick and thin when he was great when he wasn't like when his overpoweredness was like grossly exaggerated when like way better armors were out like literally poison pilling him like um talking about daughters of kane um and and like I was like you know what I'm like I went to wall packet two years ago and a gosh with those bone reviews I'm like this is kind of going to be my last raw for a gosh and then he's kind of going to go sit on the shelf next to my visa chaos where I pull him out on like special occasions you know but like I'm I'm going to go all in on vampires on to spend the next year on vampires just just like really rockin it you know get my hobby game up like just go all in on the vampires and so I was like kind of like in this this like this this area and I'm like you know what but like I'm going to wait for like that way when that wave wave two hits of us your bone reapers I'm just going to like hit the ground and you know I'm going to come back fully rejuvenated like and they found a way to like hurt me in my retirement you know like this this like they found a way like I wasn't even in the ring you know and they like called me from the crowd like it was like it like it like it was bad at boxing click yeah come on down like we got the special halftime show thing for the boxing ring you can win a prize and like oh I can win a prize hell yeah and I come in the ring and then like just Mike Tyson comes it just jaws me and that was the prize I want to use your getting punched in the face analogy from earlier yeah and just like I thought I won something and they're like you did here's a Tom celestial and that was like they they found a way to hurt me more Vince I found a way to hurt me more that was exactly what I was looking for thank you perfect I was trying to I was trying to get that exact reaction so that's wonderful Tom what did you think when you saw this were you were you were you excited did you think you were going to be good bad what was your feeling it's fine that was my response I looked at it and I was like it's just the same sure I wonder it's turtles all the way down yeah I mean look this show has been quite clear with its stance on the Tom angels they are bad shouldn't be the method of rules updates because it is 2022 and bad for the game yes because we shouldn't be putting these kinds of rules patches into a publication that gets sold once every couple months into a printed publication it's wacky to me and they introduce a lot of negative things now sometimes we still got rules that are fun I was happy to see the stuff that was in Legion of Blood so don't mishear me that I think everything they've done was bad I think the vehicle is bad and I think that they if they were going to do stuff like this honestly I would have rather seen them just publish a single book with real sizable updates and just been like hey look real talk for a moment guys what's in this book you ain't getting a new to many times soon it's just the reality of publishing we can't publish 25 books at once there's only so many people who work here we're working hard to churn them out as fast we can but for those people who aren't getting stuff soon here's a book by the way this is what they're doing in 40k they haven't outwardly said it but the next I don't know exactly what the name of the thing is but there's an update coming out where literally they're updating several armies that are clearly not getting books and they're just going to give them patch rules until then with like stratagems and stuff so I would just rather sell maybe a $40 book that has the 12 armies you plan to do tomes that's fine we used to do this it was in the generals handbook sure absolutely correct Tom like I understand they went to the smaller form factor the generals handbook awesome that's great let's go back to like a 2022 annual that launches in December right that is a big FAQ right right around the big FAQ like so it's associated time just right and when that drops it's a $40 purchase updates for 4 to 6 armies that need touched maybe a couple scenarios maybe they can do something spicy do some alternative rules like what used to be in the generals handbook non matched play stuff go nuts throw in a couple wacky rulesets optional things with like yearly patches to new shenanigans you can throw in that whatever no nuts like let me throw like maybe it can have like a narrative section and an open section and a match play section and this is wild stuff and do it in December and I don't know it's a thing that I think people would buy that's all be transparent about it that's my point say look these books aren't getting updated in this cycle whatever that cycle means but hey players who play those armies we want to show you we care about your army and we don't want to leave you out in the cold so instead here you go here's some stuff great great sell me a thing transparency is huge games workshop fans fans warhammer players we want to give you our money for good stuff we like like I will throw money playfully at my screen right now and buy a third battle tome I don't need just because it's got art I think is cool and it might I'm looking for an excuse to hand money to games workshop at any given time um like the thing that hurts the most about the asiak bone reapers specifically is I'm going to speak in certain terms here and not nebulous ones this is the army that most needed to be brought into 3.0 that most needed to have they are orthogonal to the new rules paradigm yeah when we get into some stuff later on I'll talk a little bit about it but like I when asiak bone reapers beta tested new command abilities which is what it felt like with rdp better cleaner system for command points as we said it's a book of 9 sorts a thousand percent yeah I was like hey awesome everyone now gets to have as much fun with their command abilities as I was having with rdp I will take this L for a little bit that is the sacrifice we benevolently made for everybody else out there you're welcome once more proving he is a benevolent god giving you a better command point system and I was like so we're going to take that out and hold onto that for a little bit and I'm like and we said crap on the internet I mean the endless multitudinous legions said stuff on the internet and got a direct reply from Ben Johnson and said just wait like so we're waiting for this FAQ that's coming out nothing came to save us we got more rdp that we still can't spend and then we got the tome celestial so now nothing has still saved us and I actually have positive things to say about the tome celestial like I have some positive things to say we're going to go into detail folks by the way on the tome celestial this was not the like this was not the oh just wait you're going to get your fix like this is not the just wait you're going to be brought into 3.0 this was the just wait you're still waiting that's what happened you got a little taste a little appetizer but it didn't fill you up I'm afraid a third of a gopher would only arouse my hunger without properly bedding it back down alright so and Barry Carter hey thank you it's very much appreciated and I'm glad you enjoy it alright let's get into this tome celestial I'm not going to talk about the open play stuff by the by or the path to glory stuff sorry but this is the world we live in so relentless discipline an OBR army you don't receive command points instead you receive RDP fine great as we expected so no problem yet and at the start of the battle round after determining who will take which turn you receive one discipline point for each friendly OBR hero that's on the battlefield one RDP for each friendly liege that's on the battlefield and three if you have catacross as your general and on the battlefield okay so you get a good number of these is the point right so if you got three heroes one of whom is catacross another guy's liege and then let's say another one is just a normal hero then you're getting six off of that wait sorry one two three six no I'm not right eight sorry eight bad at math more than you can use yes sure a lot I miscounted the men I apologize in my own example and then in addition if you take the first turn you get one RDP if you take the second turn you get two RDP so matching to command points although obviously it's not it's not really a one-to-one because that actually is a huge deal with command points in many armies where you're like yeah it's it's so much bigger oftentimes you'll be playing into the double and be only one command point like it hurts it stings you often still play into the double if you set yourself up right but jeez oh Pete's it does hurt sometimes you feel it and then at the start of each hero phase roll a die for each friendly OBR units on the battlefield including any heroes for each six you receive one extra RDP so probably like a couple more right there yes okay one or two yeah exactly so the point being is that you could pretty easily depending on your exact hero make up have somewhere between like six and a dozen of these right just a fistful a round whatever it's going on okay sound right so far Meph you get a lot of RDP like numbers that if we said they were command points you'd be like what madness is going on in this army right even Seraphon would be jealous of these this insane number of command points only Gloomsphite Gits is looking at you scoffing right okay so let's get into the action now using RDP they're used to issue commands but they can only issue the broad sweep of Ossiarch command abilities okay which is either these three things we're about to talk about that are new uh well two of them are new one of them has existed before uh the the ones that are printed on war scrolls or the sub faction ones as they would exist okay uh however the restriction that you cannot use the same ability more than once in the same phase does not apply to Ossiarch command abilities for example you can use shield wall command ability on war tech guard war scroll more than once in that same phase as long as the command ability is issued by a model that has not already issued a command and received by a unit that has not already received it so there's no stacking still sure you're not able to get away with like my gosh dumping all the points and issuing uh using his command ability to buff everybody his command ability should just already take care of that though and like i i got to save this take for a minute keep going vince you're in the flow you're in the zone sure so the point is like you've got your traditional one unstoppable advance which has existed since the book which is the plus three and just to move it makes the army work right so in the movement phase you could have the hecatos in this unit issue it to that unit and the hecatos in this unit issue it to that unit and the elite unit over here issue it to itself and they all move three extra inches like that is perfectly legal and doable but you can't have a single hero go you move plus three inches and then have that same hero go you move plus three inches twice nor can you have him go to a single unit you move plus three do it again right he can't he can't give it to the same unit twice okay before we get into the command abilities hit me Matthew thoughts so far on this stuff so I there's a very important thing to note when you're talking rdp that I think went over people's had even previous addition okay there are entire armies out there that have command abilities that are not command abilities that have allegiance abilities that just do stuff sure you know you've got smashing and bashing just does its thing you've got you've got like locus of shayesh zombie six inch pylons you've got riders of ruin which is like the overrun thing on on blood nights just going in house just staying within my own house you know you've got great bray shaman plus three inch move running everybody within it within a sphere of them straight up where I have to use a relentless discipline also staying in house for another army I play which is basically sure you could something like the so a good example of I think what you're talking about Matthew that's going to make your point well is consider the lord arcane one torlon in stormcast who has a thing where you can just land near people and give them plus one to hit for the rest for the foreseeable future right because he moved near them there was no command no command points were exchanged it's just I moved I had this buff that then pulsed out for me done and dusted okay that's the kind of thing you're talking about right I'm not making a case for like rdp bad mind you I just wanted to put an into p into context for people that rdp is your allegiance ability you look at the allegiance abilities in in your book it says immunobattleshock you have relentless discipline points was it ranks like unbroken by descent as the rule and that's what gives you all this stuff that's it and then you get some of the legions abilities but everyone gets some of the legions abilities everyone gets free free stuff right like that's it I think you know what you're talking about or your tomes celestial is on the way I assure you that'll totally fix all your problems no but the thing is like we've entered a world where things just do stuff and so we have this resource that isn't like an aside to existing resources how some armies have like depravity points and command points or how how Nurgle pseudo has three resources right now between contagion points command command points and disease points sure you know like like we have one resource to track that's supplanted another resource and is all of our allegiance abilities well it's the point is a lot of buff type style things that some armies might just get all are effectively been routed through the RDP engine okay I mean that is that is aether gold for KO let's be very clear here except they don't ever refresh it like aether gold is chaos entire command allegiance and not everybody gets it sure yeah I mean it's but you also get command abilities too right like yeah yeah exactly you could you could point to like yes there is a way for people to get a share during the fight just so Tom people don't come after us for like because there's the one sub faction sub allegiance for some of the legions where you can but everybody gets a little close but yeah I was already like kind of like solving for zero with sub allegiance so saying we all get sub allegiance abilities that's not relevant to what I was acknowledging is that KO at that highest level they are likewise star as far as allegiance abilities go sure yeah okay I'm not even working on multiple multiple resources as a take to begin with by the way I'm just saying this is it and some you know some armies get their stuff for free we get a like weapons especially utility buff style things that being the key having a thing printed on your war scroll that's like you do a thing better that's pretty common across all forces and there are there are units in OBR that do that as well but buff yeah we have outright blades you know yeah exactly right like but unit buff style things where suddenly the unit can gain a random buff or or affect or yeah that that kind of stuff is in OBR mostly basically just routed through RDP okay it doesn't use a sub resource it doesn't happen for free it happens for this one resource that's a planted command points as well okay so because they don't get to use the fun stuff of rally all-out defense all-out attack the the standards that we've all come to know and love I mean really is huge how much has yeah 3.0 has changed on the face of rally alone right I mean I've won many games off of redeploy or sorry redeploy I rally feels like you should be rallying back and rallies on the put you redeploy redeploy sorry redeploy has changed the face of 3.0 alone 100% I mean just both of them are pretty good yeah they're both massive it just some armies are better poised to take advantage of rally than others redeploy redeploy redeploy redeploy will win you games yeah that's redeploying basically forward yeah redeploy redeploy redeploy back delay charges force charges just it's a it is a it is a skill testers paradise what redeploy is right anyways okay the point is this army just does not have access to that basic tool that everybody else gets okay great what are your off-the-art command abilities that you've been granted so you still retain unstoppable advance it's the same as it always was bread and butter yep just great three inches to normal move run or retreat okay cool great and then your two new ones renit constructs which is a lot of text to say you can either as long as a unit isn't in combat right you can either heal D3 wounds or restore D3 wounds worth of models if there's no outstanding wounds so you can renit more tech and get D3 back or put D3 wounds back on your your more gas that only that you only use if you're a cool person because they are still some of the coolest looking this army does have some of the coolest looking hyper elite troops I have to give it to that like the the all their big boys are just sweet as and you have a death death bias it's been marketed on the on the show multiple times but yeah go on I do I do twice the amount of a normal person's compliment to our models 100% it should I mean death death has beautiful models there's not a single range that's bad like maybe flesh eater or flesh eater courts is a little bit of a blank slate their regular ghouls are terrible okay at any rate at any rate yes that's what it is it's it's rally but mostly worse sometimes better heal that's what it is the trick is you can't be in combat just like rally okay fine and then unflinching coordination which is in a in the combat phase and you take a after a friendly okay I'm not even going to read all the stupid text because it's just it's so complicated read it's their new favorite thing in at some point in writing 3.0 they stumbled upon the chain activation trick of chump hero fights with his unit because somebody in design realized that there was a reverse incentive to fighting with units and heroes to where you never wanted to put your even your combat hero into your non monster combat hero I mean here basically into combat because the natural state of affairs would be charged with a unit and you charge with him or her and then obviously the unit fights first because the combat hero is going to basically do nothing and then the unit is going to turn around and whoever you're fighting if they didn't get blown off the table is going to turn around and kill the hero right and so now they've discovered this chain activation thing and friendly hero fights they can bring a unit with them so it switches the things they did this in nergal a bunch of ways to have the the nergal foot heroes pull their units their associated units in there okay are you going to get to the heroic action in the same bit are we still going to talk about abilities here we're going to go to the heroic actions there they are a bright spot of this to me honestly okay so renit and unflinching coordination what do these do for you so like renit is like one out of every three terms I use renit sure and I have a wealth of rdp like because of how asiak bone reapers plays as an army people need to understand there are no tricks here just fists no flipping no teleporting our catapult now sucks it's a pretty straight melee army so most things are probably fighting adds to the fact it's a grind attrition army and they're going to be in combat for a while so you need to get in play like you need to go for your win stroke like your whatever your plan to win is you go for it right away that doesn't mean like go for an alpha strike it just means that you move you set into motion you're a boulder down a hill you set that boulder down a hill towards your strategy to win the game and you commit to it because you need to get it in motion and grind people out like it is basically you are marching this trap forward and closing this trap around people this is like so you're you're almost always either stuck in or like like because strategically speaking you should be I'm not making a case for like hey they should be able to heal in combat I'm just saying that little bit of a non bow here also the last thing I wanted for my army that has about four sources of regen easily in every list is more regen yeah and we should also state I didn't mention it before and I was highly remiss not to do so is that the unit that uses this not only can they not only do they have to not be in combat but they can't have moved and the op yeah as you just pointed out this is a melee army that has that isn't super fast you gotta get a motion right away get stuck in they have to get in right yeah you gotta get a number of units you have they're just gonna stand around is not many like what this is going to be is in my mind and tell me if you think I'm wrong Beth renit is for putting wounds back on various caster or support heroes who tend to be outside of the fight behind the line who turn one or two moved into position and probably will just stand still for much of the rest of the game as they're around yeah you're the little plank plank damage that hits your bone shaper he's gonna regen himself because he's like babysitting unit like 20 more tech guard um maybe a goth is our harvester if you're bringing it by the way spoiler you're not um we've run the math it's just you kind of aren't doing it um like and then maybe your your catapult but you're not bringing that either because everyone save stacking and no run on that thing even if it's five damage kills the crab so bad in 3.0 um so like contextualization for this is like like it's just your bone shapers healing and maybe catacross an extra time sure because you don't want catacross in combat which actually parlays into unflinching coordination we have one combat hero that actually wants to fight you and that's a liege cavalos like there's not an abundance of like turn him into like a vampire lord on zombie dragon or like even my my there's not an abundance of like turn your liege cavalos 180 point hero into like the slap shit commander like he does decent damage for 180 point hero which is nice the only two that are ever going to be fighting is arguably the liege cavalos and catacross and catacross yeah yeah yeah they're the only two are ever really going to be fighting so now I'm going to I'm going to play my bone shaper or my mortis in worse to be able to trigger this and then also shut off all my rdp combat abilities on the rest of the unit so my no bludgeon no bonus attack no nothing like all my stuff that gives my unit gas I can't do to them either right like so it's it's by the way we like it we're all we're like we're looking at them we're going like there's some good there's some good tricks here note there's no range on the unit I activate like the only the only the only necessity board my liege cavalos can like just charge some rando like backline 5 derpy guys are like skinks or something and then over there my my 20 pack of more tech guard are activating now like that is something I wasn't supposed to tell everyone because it's one of the only tricks we have right now is austere bone reapers is that nobody sees coming so now you all see it coming you're welcome um cost to it at the same time because it is a command combat phase thing and oftentimes there are other rdp based abilities you're trying to use in the combat phase which the unit that receives the command to fight instantly suddenly those are shut off they can't do it if they got a start of the combat phase ability yeah so my liege cavalos keep in mind now can't drive the wedge like his main like chargey mortal wound ability in an army that has actually very low mortal wound output right there's not a lot of mortal wounds in this army um like nerfing to gosh was one of the biggest nerfs to our mortal wounds output which is kind of why he was like sort of propping up the army because he gave a lot of mortal wounds to the army um like so you're you're you're you're having this like sort of death by a thousand cuts to what's going on with austere bone reapers right now in 2.0 that I think people need to you know like you look at individual things and you go hey that's pretty cool but when you put it all together it like it just the puzzle pieces don't line up um I think swaggy shadows correct I thought about that before the show I and I want to take that back I think because it's counting as a command ability it would use the standard rules of 12.18 I don't know maybe 12.18 but we already don't use those rules or we weren't using those rules I have our own FAQ it's probably correct probably correct yeah I that's a good point I thought about that before I was re-reading everything but then I was like but maybe because it's RDP it still says it's command ability so I'm guessing it still uses the normal the normal rules yeah so it still has the the basic core rules yeah the numbers yeah oh man you're right the one thing that I thought was kind of cool about this is not cool um oops so I guess it's worse um like it's it's worse in two ways like it like any any opportunity for something to be in this army is just told it can't be yeah um and they there's just this like three stooges try to get through a doorway of trying to use our RDP so your ending turns on like six RDP left right because you just don't have enough units to actually receive the command since that's still capped all right let's talk about what I think is actually the bright spot of this update which is these heroic actions well or at least one of them so we'll get there okay so uh they get new heroic actions which is a thing I'm sure we're going to see a lot of as if if battle tome trends and stuff continues we've seen them offer alternative heroic actions alternative monstrous actions things like that they love this new mechanics so they love to stuff new versions in uh so at the start of your hero phase you can carry this heroic action you can carry this heroic action with a friendly asiak bone reapers hero instead of any other heroic action you can carry out with that hero uh relentless leadership peck pick one friendly asiak bone reapers hero until the end of this turn you can use an asiak command ability uh to issue a command with that hero without a relentless discipline point being spent whatever use a command ability for free that's what it's doing hard pass this is this is like not the good one to me so we just got done saying you can't use all of your command abilities or your command point you're already yeah no you can't use all of that and this was saying you get one for free correct we should also point out the thing that they I didn't mention it earlier but I love this comical note of you cannot use the expert slayers strategists or swift battalions well first of all no one that we're expert slayers or swift people use strategist if they took warlord obviously uh but instead for each battalion in your army that has any of these rules once for battle at the start of any battle round you can receive one relentless discipline point well la di da so we're taking more of this onto the pile 12 a dozen is not enough I need 15 like more than I could actually mathematically use ever you don't have enough units you don't have enough units on the table like you have like six units on the table and you can't like spam command point I don't have enough map until I multiply until I'm getting an amount equal each turn each turn equal to my number of units times the number of phases yeah that's it yeah yeah no it's so frustrating you're using on for more context we're using on average two battalions like we're trying to get our drops low we're combat army and our our Achilles heel is shooting what's really good on the meta right now oh all right yeah exactly oh I understand moving on yeah yeah so yes this first heroic action I would call but the next heroic action I is strong like it's this one's good this one's good I love this one at the start of your phase you can carry out this heroic action with a friendly mortis instead of any other heroic action you can carry out with that mortis necromantic mastery pick one friendly mortis and if the first spell that mortis and attempts to cast in this turn is successfully cast that spell cannot be unbound okay yes please yes please that's a good ability that's a good heroic action it's very strong okay here's my immediate question so this is like your bone shaper your soul mason and your soul reaper am I right is that all the mortis and it leaves all those the ones without bonuses to cast yeah sure but like whatever okay fine our cast our casting values are low this is actually like really great because we're looking at like cv5 casts and stuff so we don't have like a plus one or plus two to cast really in the army anywhere um but but you're casting on fives so it's actually really good this kind of fixes one of the problems with our army so maybe y'all can clarify for me casting an endless spell is still casting a spell because the spell is to cast the endless spell and then the model the endless spell shows up correct that's how it works yeah the first spell so you can throw your your bone type shrieker sure and you can't stop me yeah I mean I think if you were still having a gosh it'd be exciting because you could throw out the the portal for the hand without it getting unbound by some other dude would throw it out again and then just one more tip no the bone shaper would cast the portal for a gosh yeah yeah okay yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah maybe it's portal monkey right so that that way but but again that's you're not using the gosh there anymore so who cares now just this one thing sure but this actually sets up a weird incentive structure okay here's the weird incentive structure off of this ability Tom did you you probably spotted this to cast your better spells first not necessarily I mean probably but maybe not what you actually want to cast with this is the lowest possible casting value you can that has value to you right because if you've got a spell casting value three right perfect world right they don't but imagine you did if you roll that three they're not night haunt but sure in most armies there are armies that have casting value threes around right but in most armies if you have a casting value three and you roll the three somebody's just gonna be like all unbind that they basically automatically do it right but in this case if you have something that's casting value three and you roll the three that's it it works they get no bite at the apple okay so by that rationale what spell is the most what's your best spell to cast with this in your mind I have my pick what is yours meth we're usually throwing out our nadirite empower nadirite blades on this okay is casting value of five that's that cv5 and we're empowering our nadirite blades or we're trying something cheeky with an endless spell but okay alright Tom you looking through the spell lore for me my gut would be I would even like more important than that to me is reinforced battle shields okay I will tell you why I think you're both wrong it's mystic shield guys it's just mystic shield you're right and it's sad that's it that's all this ability is this ability is once per round in your turns you can probably cast mystic shield for sure that's all this is because mystic shield casts on a five it's your most important and powerful effect you're going to get you want that three up on your on your more tech guard yep that's it it's sad because it's not it's not like leaning into our identity of what we are which is for me the greatest crime of stuff go ahead go ahead Tom sorry it just depends on what you're facing because if I'm facing down if I'm facing down 30 sentinels on the other side of the board I want the five up after save sure sure that's fine I'm not saying there's not situations where having the after save you're right if somebody's dialing dialing dialing dialing dialing you and spitting hot fire of mortal wounds okay and that's basically the only way they do damage sure sentinels being prime example here but there are others sure yeah but the sentinels have already just shot your mortisan like just in the in the dome and he's dead yeah so I don't know who's casting this spell that dude died two rounds ago Tom he died at the top of one when you got out dropped and they just were like but I take your point yeah like and the um like natto ride blades it's because I'm I'm activating them when my mortisan charges with them right right guys no yeah it's it's mystic shield in 90% of the cases it's mystic shield that's it that's it that's what this does this ability might as well just read once per per battle round you may cast mystic shield and it may not be unbound that's it feels very antithetical when you say it that way like very just anti-climactic sure I understand I hear that I'm simply acknowledging that there are a lot of other they have a nice spell war and there are a lot of things that you want to get through they have a very long mortal wounds by the way we don't do a lot of mortal wounds they have a perfectly interesting spell war good one yep I like it and it's still mystic shield Tom and you know this and I know this because what is the first spell you cast every round in every game you play don't be a liar it's mystic shield okay it just is I mean not actually first because sometimes you're trying to draw unbinds and blah blah blah you're saying the number one priority and I understand what you're saying number one priority on resolving is mystic shield yes correct yep and this resolves I go now right blade still because one I want to play to my army's identity and two a good offense is a good defense fence it's perfectly fair it's perfect the best defense is a good offense let's I'm going to go ahead and I want to I want to get the statistics on this real quick I'm going to bring this up give me just a moment oops hold on checkmate cw primer says I don't play mystic shield I played night haunt that's fair yeah well you're not using this ability either so with this ability you have a let's see 13.8 3 so you have an 84.7% chance of successfully getting mystic shield off I like it pretty good I like it I like reliability pretty reliable as things go okay next but hey it's a good ability I do like it it's like if this was one other ability in a list of like other good abilities I feel very positive about this instead of something that does literally nothing right and like if it was like one of two and I'm like oh the other thing was like I get to ignore I don't know being able to double tap command buffs on a unit with a heroic thing and I'm like no you get to like charge up like a Kamehameha this round like you can double you can activate and have your bludgeon or you can activate and have your shield tilt how was that not the other heroic action was like the hero can pick a unit and then they can double stack an rdp during a phase once per the round or something like that how was that not what it actually was because nobody who played asiak bone reapers ever touched any of these rules I don't know I mean I know there are some OBR testers so it's surprising it's a great army it should be a high priority army for games workshop going forward it is the only like I love vampires I'm a vampire guy my inner goth phase has never went away okay like like but I can play vampires in anything everyone's got their version of vampire you know I happen to love games workshops turbo castlevania vampires don't get me wrong big fan I bought a bunch of them I can only play in a games workshop product they should be a priority like they sold like hotcakes we look at our player representation in 2.0 when that book came out 10% of the field was asiak bone reapers yeah it was very large shocking large there's a lot of people with OBR army sitting on a shelf right now right this army should be a priority like it's the most AOS death thing that has ever existed for games workshop it's sorry alright I got that little rant cast showing up in your show let's talk about this waste of print that they keep putting in these books grand strategies and battle tactics okay cool by the way I'll say it again hit that like button subscribe do the fun things while we talk about a not fun thing that's happened their grand strategy is just bad you don't even really feel the need to go into it but you have to have a unit of more tech guard or death writers have the same number of models it had at the start of the game yeah like there are just better picks it's a bad grand strategy stop printing it absolutely is just stop printing these it's obvious that there's a limited amount of design space for these where they're compelling stop please stop okay and then our battle tactics are worse versions of existing ones uh so yes but I actually think that like okay so if we're gonna have to deal with these battle tactics existing I will say I actually don't hate all of these battle tactics alright like I think some of these are interesting because you run out of battle tactics right like you can only exactly yeah yeah yeah so I would like to double up on the one that's easy to get and then my easier my easy to get but worse version of it right yeah all right continue continue yeah yeah yeah and I agree with you CW on that yes you would never pick that grand strategy like you would just take hold of the line obviously like obviously okay uh so here's your here's your battle tactics trample the defiant pick one friendly Cabalos death writers unit that is more than three inches away from all enemy units you complete this battle tactic if that unit sorry my mouse is in the way makes a charge move this turn and it and is within three inches of enemy any unit at the end of the turn okay so they have to either charge one thing and not kill it or just charge into two things and like kill the one thing but then still be within three inches of another this is like now this is predicated on you having a death writers unit in your army which a lot of people don't necessarily play death writers but I would argue that some people do and this is a free two points it's a freebie yeah because you're gonna move it like you're gonna know that your death writers can move to within three charge land this and then you know charge to within two people or not kill the unit they're fighting like you can easily math that out to know that that will be successful okay and so it's just a free two points like on your turn this isn't effectively an autocomplete there's one small small case okay and that is I guess two small cases first case is someone redeploys away from you and you blow the charge okay so make sure you move to within three inches of multiple units they can't redeploy away from you if possible and the second problem is if you happen to roll snakey snakes on your charge because you don't have access to re-roll the charge command ability and you didn't take the re-roll charge triumph which is what you should take in this army if you're taking a triumph um that's the only way you fail this this is a pretty close to autocomplete battle tactic it kind of non-boss a little bit with your with your mortal woundy charge ability which is like you're like I want to wipe you out but I don't want to wipe you out but the practicality of a five of a five block of cavalo's death riders is they're a tar pit they're a mobile tar pit um they they do good enough damage but their survivability is constantly surprising my opponents like the number of times I have like two like I get charged and like have have two models left and it's like two turns later they're just like why can't I kill these ponies and I'm like murder ponies they're better than regular ponies um so yeah uh they have a death riders have plus one to charge on their every obr uh battle line has a uh a plus one to charge they can't fail I forgot that they had that so okay never mind cool you don't have to worry about the snakes then so you're good so it is quite close to autocomplete then all right very good I'm sorry everybody I didn't realize that that was on their banner even better then your only case if you move up get redeployed away from big roll then you fail to charge so just watch out for that that's that's your only trick that you'll walk into okay great thank you everyone I apologize I forgot that that was their banner ability good stuff the next one un unfeeling recursion you complete this battle tactic if two or more friendly Ossiarch bone reaper units had slain models returned to them with the reenick constructs Ossiarch that's the end ability in this turn okay so I'm very torn on this one because on one hand if you were to ever choose it like here's what I'll say about it if you're in a position where you can where you choose it you're going to autocomplete it right because you're gonna have two units of more tech guard that are less than full you're gonna go reenit reenit they don't move reenit reenit complete you stuck in it's automatic right you're gonna have the two RDP you're gonna like you know what I'm saying like if you choose this then you complete this assuming you're not insane yeah right this is like the run three people battle tactic right if you're choosing it you're completing it unless you just are literally out of your mind okay or forget all right so it's an autocomplete the problem with it to me is the situation where you have availability to choose it because you basically would need two units of more tech for the most part out of combat who lost units and don't want to move or sorry who lost models and don't want to move Catechrose autocompletes this like Catechrose is reenitting you know X units on the field just just for freeze you have ab bone shaper and you rally one you have to use reenit constructs that's specific specifically says reenit constructs yes you can't use like the other sorry I wasn't bolded I missed it I thought I just had to regen units no this I hate it I mean that's the problem right I hate it because I hate reenit constructs because you can't move like it is an auto it's two RDP to two VP if you turn it on if you're in a position where you can use it the challenge to it is you have to have two basically more tech units out of combat who don't want to move that turn so it's situational right that's the trick yeah not so auto not we already expressed the problem with reenit constructs uh uh co-new us the problem is is like using reenit constructs is such a and getting it on two units in my army I like I have five units in my army you know like I have two blocks of more tech in a thing of Cavalos it's that's that's my battle line like that's that's what can use it it's auto with a flow chart gate okay because you have to first like before you before you do it you have to answer this question that is do I have two more tech units with missing models out of combat that don't need to move if yes earn two victory points right done if no this is useless right that's it that's the flow chart right see this doesn't feel 100% chance or 0% chance that's it there's no in between with this it doesn't feel tactical it feels finicky and meaningless it's the opposite of tactical for the tactical army go on and then the last one is the tithe demands which I actually like having in the clip the fact I mean my actual fear with these is that they might be too good and push I mean this is like whatever whatever but that they might push OBR to easily having five auto completes between the whole clip combined with the basic ones because this one is pick one enemy hero or monster on the battlefield you complete this battle tactic if that unit is destroyed this turn if that enemy hero or monster was destroyed by an attack made by a friendly goth is our harvester you score one additional victory point okay you're not going to do that last part of the text yeah but this is like that's a pretty wide group of things that you're able to kill and like it comes up that it's the start of your turn and there is a very injured hero or monster you know somebody on one two three wounds or something like that pretty often amongst any hero or monster on the battlefield and so that's pretty low risk as things go like this is more generous than say bring it down okay now bring it down has the monster kicker if you bring it down with your monster this has a goth is our harvester kicker a much worse kicker for to be fair but it's a much more broad number of situations like between this and bring it down if you're fighting like an enemy monster mash army this can just be too easy slam dunk vps for you if you get him down wounded and you just you know you're going to grind him out this turn yeah you had to have taken a goth is our harvester though which you didn't because they they basically are just one free victory point for most of the matter right now yeah I'm assuming that last part of the text about the goth is our harvester just doesn't exist it was a joke it was a joke slipped in by the editor yeah just like hey this will be funny put that in there this is like the this is the the serving size on fig newtons is to newtons like no that's a joke that's not real it's not right right I don't want to harsh a goth is our harvester but I had so much hope for them coming into this into 3.0 you know I'm like all these monster actions my one monster in my entire army my one monster in my entire army of bone constructs yeah Hades asked what's wrong with the harvester he's a 10 wound thing which is the worst place to be and he gets shot and killed that's it because it's shooting heavy meta and he cannot be protected in any way he just dies yeah and he furthermore you don't as a pseudo elite army you don't have the screens for him either so any combat army with good combat abilities to get into combat spoiler they all have good combat abilities to get into combat because they're either outflanking in some manner have absurd charges a teleport plus an absurd charge you don't have enough coverage to protect the goth is our harvester right like a 30 block of more tech guard with a goth is our harvester like in the middle kinda you can roughly protect but if you're putting that many points in some place I guess congratulations like the rest of your army is just gone like it's it's not a hero it's just at a very bad wounds level where it's easily shot off that's the issue it's a weak wounded monster like it's not a 14 or 18 or 20 wound monster it's 10 and he just dies and gives your opponents because your opponents are going to hunt him because he's a free victory point with their shooting like and they're going and it's going to get in the way of their plans by getting the other unit they want to kill they know the more tech aren't getting to them this turn so why not point the long strikes at the harvester blow him off the table get a bonus VP right solve a problem gain a free point and then you can focus on the other things later yeah it's it teaches it's actually like a really good teaching point because it even has like a little like a big like beacon on its back how it's built and stuff it literally teaches your opponents how to play the game of Sigmar correctly because it telegraphs that it should freaking die shoot this it's like Hunter's Mark it just appears right like actually like when you play the game you'll see that like Games Workshop pioneered some VR tech along with their 3D printing tech yeah if you use the augmented reality glasses if you put the augmented reality goggles it's just it's on it every time yeah exactly because he's just a free point all right cool all right let's keep moving okay current state of affairs so this is kind of a wrap up let's let's summary this current state of affairs here uh this should be fairly quick so after these two changes uh the loss of Nagash as the go to hurts the army competitively not necessarily a pure negative as he was likely a crutch and I don't ever like crutches like the it was just like the old statement on extra sentinels or anything like that like the army should be good enough itself not because it had access to one two efficient unit or model or whatever but it's still true that competitively they're in a worse place the new abilities help them play 3.0 a little better but ultimately they still feel like a 2.0 army in a 3.0 world their lack of ability to interact with some of the core mechanics of 3.0 still holds them back especially in the current meta their only shooting unit performs much worse in 3.0 which is a shooting meta it reduces their ability to remove well-protected challenges things that they need to kill because they need to win in the melee grind and oftentimes their opponents have better buffs better utility on pieces that they can't remove everyone their opponents can remove their pieces uh they still have multiple scrolls that just don't have a use in the current world I'm looking at you and Mortis guard uh so you know fix that uh and they my final note really is that the army can still be great fun to play as you said it's a it is a very fair army right like it plays a fair straight game of war it's always been this way yes and like if you like this kind of a style it can be rewarding and fun to play and to issue these things you will have the sort of you are still a pretty grindy tough army and all those elements that's that is all true but it's a hard five oh okay and you know like that's it's you don't pick this hello dear you don't pick this army because you're trying to like be the competitive powerhouse right the cards have to like fall right I don't think you can five oh it in the current meta I mean you can if you get the right you get right exactly like bill susan or or or or or oh and sure but like you know in wilson like but you can't it's such a like the meta exists exactly to already beat you like our shield tilt doesn't work against range to begin with like right all of the things that make our army like resilient don't work outside of the combat phase even the new buffs they added explicitly state combat phase like everything going on like we are combat phase army that doesn't have the tricks of other combat phase armies we we're not doing any of that stuff we get plus three inches to our four inch war scroll move cool like I mean I love that on fire slayers sure but you have a teleport so stop stop adding me bro like um your axis are going to do more across your whole army than two catapults in my entire army like hit like dogs go ahead yeah like and subscribe for dogs like there you go I'm not saying that like I don't want to get into like a who's worse off battle right now because I don't think that helps anybody I'm not interested in like in like how bad the it can get it's it is bad for this army in in in ways I do think it firmly three in twos by the way yeah like I it it's held aloft by the strength of how absolute quality their core troops are more tech guard and and leashed and and uh uh Cavalos death riders are absolute quality like like ten out of ten no like they are they like the the times that people are surprised when they run into just 20 a 20 block more tech like fantastic I love to look on people's faces same thing with we with with Cavalos death riders it's just this is always been a game of like sort of augmenting the game state and we we've never augmented the board and we can't augment the game state in other meaningful ways anymore right we can buff our troops kinda but it always comes at the cost of something else and we have nothing to do with our own core mechanic which is relentless discipline points we don't have any other allegiance abilities immune to battle stock fine whatever if I feel like how you felt about depravity a while ago yeah sure we're we're like if everyone's complaining about my immunity to battle shock I will gladly give you that if you give me real other abilities right sure yeah I want to get rid of this thing it's fine it's not doing what you think it's doing yes exactly yeah like it's not really doing what you think it's doing for my army like we're not winning in the battle shock phase guys sure um so like way back in the day when I started playing Warhammer back in in 4th 5th edition they released the dogs of war and there was a little group of halflings called lumpen croups lumpen croups little archers and they had a special rule that was immune to way watcher traps because way watchers used to be able to trap woods right down secret and then if they went in the woods the little lumpen croups halflings didn't set off the traps that was such a specific and the joke we always made was how much am I paying for that right like what part of this per model point cost is paying for that ability because if it's greater than zero I don't want it I don't want it that is it's unnecessary this is the same way like I'll give away these abilities if you give me something good even relentless discipline and stuff like they've baked in like we don't we can't use battalion abilities we can't ally anything they've they we can't use generic command abilities to give us our basic stuff they made us pay a cost and plus what are we paying for points for it I don't want to doom and gloom this army because again like I love it's actually my favorite army even though I'm on this this whole like Gravelord's thing like I said I can play vampires anywhere this is this is this is it this is the war armor army but it's just in such a it's just not playing 2.0 you know and how well it performed or it's just not playing 3.0 and how well it performed in 2.0 was kind of like a like a little bit of a false prophecy you know even if you just waited six months for people to have judgments on the army they would have been able to mitigate their hatred of the army from the Petrofex elite days go on all right no you don't know it's good and yes Sam oh I know all right let's go to the future anyways here's ponderbol so let's this is my awesome photoshop skills at play here by the way which think about this this super sweet photoshop oh so good so high quality right here um all right math I want you to lead us in this discussion so what should the future of this army do you messed up the photoshop beds you should have replaced the head of the halfling in the back sure I should have made a grimo worm into like arcane yeah you needed to skip the precious head as my only criticism or if I want to go full meme lord it's uh orb is out cube is in go watch like the necron stuff that's like showing up yeah there are versions of this meme with the ponder the cube instead of the orb yes um maybe that maybe that should be the bone daddy himself um maybe that should be uh catechrose is like catechrose back there looking at the gosh sure yeah there you go there you go I have so many thoughts on the future of this army because like I said like I don't want to like doom and gloom people who like if you're looking at the austere bone repulse models and you're like oh like I want to start playing more hammer like I want to take you side and be like okay look you're not playing 3.0 right now but like if you absolutely love the bone zone embrace the bone zone for the bone zone you know we'll provide but right but like you know there's so many things that like feel silly to me that people were complaining about in the past and I kind of want them to lean into harder for the future does that make sense so my first thing is the bone tithe nexus because that was the first thing everyone complained about and your criticism of the bone tithe nexus we're just we're just diametrically opposed on this vince I think all faction terrain should be sized up 25% larger to compete with the bone tithe nexus bigger terrain better in my opinion huge equals great but I want like I hear all the stuff about the bone tithe the bone tithe the whole ad campaign was the tithe I don't see the tithe mechanically on the table not at all I think you're right you're right like they should be getting stronger as model enemy models die right and we as I pointed out earlier like we have a resource and virtually every army out there has two resources we could easily be a two resource army and I would love it to be a two resource army that interacts with the other army in like a meaningful way like you could go to my bone tithe nexus and literally pay the tithe and shut off like an ability or something like like I don't or how about this as models die in the enemy army you like you're racking up a total yeah yeah my tithes there's tears that you're reducing their morale by because bodies are being added to the the altar right and so there's just an enemy blanket wide and so it's it ends up being an inverse of their lack of needing battle shock because what you end up doing is like for every I don't know let's say 10 bodies they have an army wide one morale for the rest of the game yeah I yeah I like I just I think of something like like like um you know one of the things people like honed in on I don't believe in taking things away as a mechanic so much as giving stuff like in terms of like general design philosophies I would rather give people things for doing things than like take away things and there are exceptions um but I do think that if the one thing people complain about like big time is like our battle shock in the end and like I said I'll give away my battle shock mean if you gave me like real good rules but just a basic concept of the bone tithe nexus is you can like sacrifice stuff you can pay the tithe and then you can get shock immune for a unit I am for I am a benevolent God sure you know if their point is to collect the bone tithe like once they get their tithe they leave they will we peace out yeah we're done right if we've attacked you you already are insufficient however like you haven't paid enough of the type that's why we've brought it and we've we've written the contract in such a way that we actually want to obliterate you because we're like like that's that's the whole court conceited the army but if they collect the tithe theoretically they win right that's their that's their victory condition for them is they get enough bones yeah we win because we got the bones we knew yeah so what if just as they killed enemy units in some way they were able to score victory points for having the tithe paid like put a cap on it like monster like killing monsters right now we all have this by the way just a general rule I mean isn't this just a grand strategy though yeah why don't we have a grand strategy to collect the tithe for crying out loud yeah like if you kill units I mean you can do this as a grand strategy you can do this as a special rule where they have like a sub-objective that earns some VP cap to one per battle rounder one per turn or something just like killing monsters where it's every you know they kill a unit they collect the tithe and the tithe is a VP it could actually be an extremely competitive mechanic because it's allowing them to sort of skip hop and turn scenarios to their favor right and it's making you want to like if you feed them anything as chaff it actually works against you it helps with the crux of our army too keep going I love this it helps with the crux of our army because the crux of our army is forced engagement like some of the best ways to beat my army is to just run away from me the whole time yeah like you know and so it's like there's this like sort of like if you seed too much of the board you know running away from me it you seed the board so you got to feed me chaff like I like that sort of the positive enforcement of what you did they're just paying the tithe they're paying the tithe I mean again you can cap it in some reasonable way you can just like suddenly explode and gain 50,000 command points or whatever of course or sorry VP of course but yeah like I don't know that that would be a way to integrate the tithe that I think would be really cool and it would have like they're on the back foot playing with normal rules okay or they don't get all access to all the rules but they get access to this one super special rule that very much drives them to victory and is narratively appropriate and like narrative meeting mechanics which is like this week but you want everything to feel like it has a place like it's narratively driven right that's that magical versimilitude okay I mean let's let me ask the hard question here okay does this army need RDP oh I want to take everyone into the nuance zone I see the only future for this army is one of two paths there's probably some like variance on these paths but broadly speaking you have a fork they either keep RDP or they get regular commandability stuff now the way I have it outlined here in my flip and notes that take up a whole page so I'm going to try to do this quick for me RDP is the soul of the army okay this is our unique snowflake mechanic that makes it interesting this was the thing that told me that this is the tactically advanced army we make more decisions than you and we play the game and yada yada yada and by the way all that stuff was as advertised an addition ago now everyone's making it has all the same decision points that we have and more that's the great fall down for me is like this is supposed to be the army that was supposed to reward my decision I'm getting my resources more like strategically better that was why I loved it as advertised that's what I got into so for me RDP is kind of the soul of the army and we have this massive surplus of RDP the easy solution is to give me something to spend it on like let me spirit bomb let me hoard all this RDP and just have some outlet mechanic where I'm like I'm able to like just hit the turbo button jump turn on a pivotal decision or like a mega combat this combat decides the game or I'm waiting around for the combat go now I spend all the RDP let me have some avenue to like spend it all or something along those lines so that's like path one as I see and I think that's the more favorable path think like a timmy here you can win mill slam a big turn I got it so that's the that's the thing like the timmy like let me spam dump or spirit bomb the other way is RDP becomes aether quartz or or gold or whatever and it's just a secondary expendable resource you can use it once per game or some amount of time per game or whatever just does a special thing and then I have command abilities what if we said that the discipline right because RDP we have understood it as a a resource because that's how it was first manifested but RDP stands for relentless discipline points so what if you just had relentless discipline and it was simply trotted out like this whenever you use a command ability units can issue two command abilities per face relentless discipline units can receive two command abilities per face so like we're still playing with like command abilities and like every the same realm everyone else is but we're doing two tactics so we're twice as tactical as you or whenever you use a command ability you can select two units to receive that command instead of one yeah instead of activating two units like what LRL are doing right now we're we're commanding two units that passes the smell test for me so that does that feel like what it was but then brings them back into line with the game that everybody else is playing yeah so that they're screwed by total eclipse sure when I think about the future of this army yeah I think that the first and most important discussion or decision that they have to make is it's a lot of what I mean by that is it's a lot of faffing about it's a mental load like we wrote a lot of text through the original book and the FAQs and then the update to 3.0 and this new tomes celestial we have spilled a lot of ink over something that is just effectively command points but not right right to have a to have a subsystem that is more or less just completely adjacent but basically the same as regular command points so something like that has to justify its existence right that's why I say lean into the timmy yeah and so if you're going to keep it around make it interesting in my mind either you say yes as you said it is the soul of the army in which case then you have to give them ways to actually use this effectively tactically probably reactively right in some in some occasions what I mean by that is redeploy as a reactive command ability right yeah your opponent does x you do y ok yeah we get the activation wars of command abilities let's go I mean you know like this stuff exists there's there's very little actual reactive sort of already being in this army which is surprising all our defense is reactive all our defense is reactive yeah yeah sure exactly so either it needs to be able to be used on more things which could mean a variety of different ways to interpret that that could mean more written command abilities though there's probably some upper limit to that where it's just going to become convoluted like already we've got probably a good number but I don't maybe maybe not maybe we can have more right entire allegiance abilities for whole cloth armies and war scroll abilities on things and all of our stuff is baked in this one stuff they can write cool and interesting stuff for this army excuse me yeah yeah sure I have no doubt the mental load or we allow it to see the army yeah good I'm sorry I'm good but but there's a cost to that right because the mental load of playing against this army is such that now when somebody rolls up to play against OBR it's all of the rules that everybody else is playing by are different and what I mean by that is like whenever somebody says I use all defense on this unit in reaction order everybody knows that because everybody's using that and before that wasn't as much of a big deal as it is now where everything's been centralized where command abilities have been ripped off of all of the war scrolls or almost everything but your generals like you're almost only your biggest name characters and so I just wonder if like if we double down right I want to like like and that's fine it's the soul of the army I've written the heart of the cards here the mental load that what of what you're doing is your is your further alienating the play experience of not only the individuals trying to pick up the army from the rest of the game but those playing against the army and I don't know that it's worth that it's a fair point like it's true but it might be worth it but that's my I don't know what the right answer here is by the by right but my statement is either you've got to pick a path we've picked neither so far right either we pick path where we have RDP justify its existence by actually making it work differently in a tangible way so not only can you issue the same command but units can receive multiple commands or some you know something like that right where either you you have more to do or I can hit a single unit multiple times like so I can stack not the same one but I can stack different ones right so I can use this combat phase one and this combat phase one and so on and so forth okay whatever right um and so I actually have a chance to use my resources and allocate them like there's no tactics to it if I can't if I'm not making a decision on scarcity if it's just I get to do basically everything all the time and it still doesn't amount to much that's that is a loss across the board well that's the crappy part is it doesn't amount to much okay we're paying resource for every minute buff we have in the army right now you know like it go on with you so that's path one right you add additional uh you know abilities turn some into reactive ability so that there's counterplay there like tactical counterplay in the way that redeployer all defense or whatever allows okay and and or you let them stack in some way so that that way there is functional uh use to to to like what it means to be relentless and for them to feel like they're this perfectly honed highly quote unquote trained the best souls of the of you know these these warriors that's option one option two as you say you know what rdps not worth it you shift them over to command points okay and you make them a high command point army with various and sundry command point generation slash usage abilities and you turn their existing i'll see our bone reverse command abilities into just standard command abilities that use command points right and you have various things that let them under certain circumstances issue the same command twice or blah blah blah blah blah blah right like gobsprac or like the mega boss or like whatever other examples you want to pick right and and maybe some of those abilities just become automatic like the torahlon example from earlier where it's just like if this then this thing happens no stop that's it done i don't need any more right if this hero is here they get to move an extra three inches brash on an example right instead of needing to get to a command point or something like that is just like if if x then why whatever right yeah and that's the other direction you go yeah i don't know that that feels like the less fun part or that feels like the less interesting way to go you know um i can imagine a world where either is true i think just allowing them to spam command or relentless discipline is just an easy easy route um going forward i think there's so much more with this army that they can do like where's my sweet bone like chiangku bone dragon for my yeah it's out there what would you want to let's let's go let's do a little round the horn what would you want in a wave two meth archer battle line it can be a little fiver like uh like a little five block uh um like uh judicars uh what are the shooty stormcats basic shooty stormcats