Okay, welcome back to the podcast and just given the fact that we are very much into application season I thought what would be a really great episode to do was to grab one of our Community members who's gone through this process all the way from Still in study going through spring weeks to then doing a summer internship and getting a return offer and Just conscious of the fact that lots of people will be in different parts of this application process So what we're going to attempt to do is talk about kind of handling of applications Kind of quality versus quantity. We'll talk about online tests talk about higher view talk about technical behavioural interviews And then also assessment sensors, but gory perhaps you could introduce yourself first aid to kick things off Yes, of course. So thank you. I'm gory. I'm currently studying at LSE doing PPE I'm in my final year. It is a four-year degree and Yeah, I just as you mentioned went through the whole spring week through and I'd say have a Had a definitely my own application experience and now I'm going I found my summer conversion to join investment banking team in the UK M&A team and Very excited to do that and share anything I may have picked up along the way Yeah, so you've had a few different Experiences, I know you did spring at RBC and Jeffries as well So I guess the first question is this this big one that students often present to me Which is how many applications should they send and it's this idea of every application takes a lot of time In order to do it well So do you invest time in doing just a handful really well? Or do you just go for volume or is there this kind of hybrid of the two and how how did you manage that? So I think Firstly like my condolences to anyone doing the application season because it's really rough it's a lot of work and Pressure and I think it does pay off in the end because you just need that one company that says yes And then you're kind of sorted good to go, but when it comes to the quality versus quantity debate I think personally I would say it depends on the amount of experience you have going into the application season So when I was applying for my spring weeks, I had absolutely no experience in finance I didn't have a lot of experience interviewing for jobs either. So I felt more secure going high quantity Not necessarily because I was interested in so many different companies and you know Even really wanted to work at some of them but being able to use them as a practice and then Bouncing off some interviews which I knew were like lower hanging through than the companies that I really really wanted I found really useful So I think I'd assess going into whatever stage of the application process you are if you're doing springs or summers or quad roles assess how much Experience you already have and then based on that you can be more selective as a general rule Less experience equals less selective in my opinion And then going from that you can organize it into a spreadsheet to keep track of the applications that you are doing so that they don't feel too overwhelming and Honestly, I think because you're doing so many applications and a lot of them will be for the same sorts of jobs whether that's consulting finance or global markets I think there's a lot of overlap between applications So if you are going for a high-quantity rule then what you can do to minimize Like how many how much effort you're putting into them is find as many ways as you can to get overlap between these applications So if that's coming up with stories for behavioral interviews like your leadership experiences just keep the same ones and just repeat them and reuse them over again and I don't think there's any penalty to doing that. I never experienced it I don't know anyone else who has but if you can I actually think it's helpful the more applications You just get more practice and it's the same it's the same work essentially just multiplied The only time when it does get a lot more effort would I would suggest is final round interviews when you need to have a bit more differentiation on the company you're interviewing with but otherwise it's some It's kind of going to be a couple of months log and the same application can be applied to different companies Yeah And so the let's say you're all being well with success at that first hurdle One of the first things then that you get invited to is a high view And I know a lot of people can be quite intimidated by that because they're like I don't know how to talk to a camera or a computer and what how long do I have to answer the questions? And what if I don't fit it all in in time? So what tips would you have on on high of you interviews? No, that makes a lot of sense I remember thinking this is a crazy way to interview And it's like sticking in front of a camera And get me speaking but it's actually I think it's really useful So firstly, I think when it comes to information about the high of you itself the time will take or the questions They might ask I think what is useful is to Google maybe in the email that they sent you for the high of you They'll include some information read that carefully because it might tell you how long your Interview is full or how long each answer is whether that's 30 seconds or two minutes That's usually the range. So you know how long to aim for And then you can also see how many questions they may ask you if they don't give you this information Then you can always Google it and ask like Georgia banks previous high of you questions or high of reforma and usually people have spoken about it I think last or Wall Street Oasis are all useful websites for this or asking people that you may know who have done the high of you before But then when it actually comes to the content of the high of you I think what's really useful and either this is what the content itself Mostly revolves around your experiences your CV and your competencies I think that's essentially what a high of you is assessing and like how you're able to communicate them So definitely print off your CV I'd say annotate it and ask yourself questions on it and see okay There's this experience here. You were leading a society at your university What would you ask on it? Like, you know, if you were to give an example of your leadership experience Could you summarize this and what you learn in a minute? And then I would record yourself doing all these practices get your phone out It feels really weird at the time But it's very very useful to actually watch yourself over and see maybe where you stumbled or what you did wrong And then you also have that added pressure of having a camera on you. So you're already kind of Stimulating the high of you environment. So I would really recommend doing that And then for the other types of questions behavioral and competency, I would Google online like common behavioral Incompetency questions or common to the bank that you're interviewing at and then again Like practice them give yourself A couple of examples for each competency I wouldn't say go beyond two examples for each say if you had a leadership question I only have two examples on the back of your hand So you don't get confused between them and then just practice them again and again and through recording yourself I think that's really useful and you it's all essentially about getting comfortable with the Environment because I think a lot of people struggle with getting comfortable One more tip I feel as stressed by a few companies is do you look at the camera when you're speaking? Because they have some technology that assesses the way you speak and communicate and they do that through the camera lens in Your device that you're using so that's really helpful as well One more thing maybe to watch out. Usually the questions are Competency based, but I'd watch out for they can also ask about risks and trends in the sector or the role that you're Applying for that's kind of the breadth of questions. I've experienced on a high of you I don't believe they get more technical than that usually and Yeah, as long as you keep preparing for that. I think you should be okay for those once you get used Yeah, so getting used to it then so just for a bit of context if no one's ever done a high of you How how much practice or training do you think is required to get comfortable enough to satisfy what they're looking for? So, um, I'd say you don't because you're speaking about yourself It sounds like a lot of work, but you actually really know these stories already if you're describing your experiences So I wouldn't say it takes more than a day to practice a Few key competencies read out loud and record yourself go over it And I think at that point you have those stories in your head You might have them written down as well And I think that's already very good And then as you go through application season and you do more and more high of you You'll just get better and better and better and you'll get tired of your stories too because you'll have said them so many times to yourself So I think I'd say spend a couple of days on it max before you start applying and then just get them out and get practicing and That's essentially it's it's not once you do it a few times over it won't be too difficult So it's it doesn't take more than a couple of days. I would say to get the hang of it And just for my benefit in terms of the high of you interviews themselves Are they a uniform length generally speaking or did they all differ slightly bank to bank? Yeah, they all differ slightly so I think the shortest I've had is 30 seconds Which I think are very hard because you Really want to show that you can manage your time and get your full story in before it cuts So again, that's why I'd try and find out the details to the high of you before you sit it because You know, you don't want to be in a situation where you run out of time I think that's like not a great snarl to be in but then the longest interview High of you and you have had it was three minutes for one answer Which is also difficult because three minutes goes fast and then you need to be able to hit each point by the deadline so you'd have to check and kind of be able to Identify the the key point in every story or answer that you say so if you do need to cut it or extend it You can So again, it's about getting comfortable with it But I think when you do these Questions for more and more companies, you know, most people have at least 40 applications If you do it 40 times over and before with practice It's usually like you become pretty good at gauging how long you'll need So that's usually like yeah So before we move into that like the details of interviews one thing I wanted to ask is like you just mentioned the number 40 So let's say you were doing 40 Applications and they all started to progress I've heard people talk about before that you obviously a lot of these banks recruit on a rolling basis So you want to apply as soon as you possibly can so you get within that catchment. However Could you catch yourself in a situation where? You do you literally spend every hour you can you get all the applications out But they all progress and then you're in a situation where you have to sit a whole bunch of Higher views or numerical tests all at the exact same time and has that happened to you or anyone you know? And how would you manage that? Yeah, that that does happen Usually there's a stage of the application cycle everyone is Like the very start early September is sending out applications getting your CV Ready in your cover letters and then in a couple weeks time early October It will be higher views or numerical tests online psychometric tests and then a few weeks later Usually early November and December is what interviews happen. So it's very cyclical in that sense. It has a real Like pattern to the application season. I think what's helpful is to So I would say usually some of them It's it's naturally a bit staggered because a lot of different companies have different opening dates And that does vary by a few weeks between each opening day However, at the same time a lot of them also do open at the same same time But because you're applying on a rolling basis It is like the case that being early is the most important because you know If they have a space open they're going to fill it as soon as they find the candidate for it So if you can get in and just send your application out and be prepared for all of them to come at once It is the best situation to be in but at the same time if you do get a bunch of higher views That are coming through they usually give you a couple of days to complete within so you can do multiple within a day or within a week and Also having that practice of doing other companies higher views I think is the most Important practice actually doing a proper high of you to then doing another high of you and it's really good preparation to have and Once that stage is over then you're going to move on to the interview stage as well managing it I think with university is the hardest bit because Obviously you have your studies and a lot of like you know a degree is hard So I think what I would say is maybe do a two-hour rule So I would try and stick by this is at least like every day try and get a two-hour slot of just university work Catching up on a lecture or problem sets anything and just getting that done and as long as you can dedicate a couple hours a day Hopefully Just to university you can spend the rest of your day doing whatever applications or anything else Then I think that's a good way to keep on top of it. Yeah, and just a final kind of anchor to the 40 number That you mentioned so let's say you did 40 Were they all I mean you're going back now to JP Morgan to work investment banking Were these all would these all have been investment banking or with these being a blend of you were doing maybe Investment banking or consulting or equity research or markets Yeah, I think at the time for some reason I was very very sold on investment banking So most my applications were for that if they weren't for investment banking then they were for global markets Which either way I still feel had a lot of crossover at the time applying for spring weeks, but if you're doing It's actually a good point because investment banking and good and global markets These are the roles that are usually rolling so deadlines are a lot more important than opening dates were a lot more important to stick by Whereas if you are throwing in some consultancy applications to which is something I was interested by I didn't actually Prioritized when I was applying is those applications are not rolling So the deadlines are usually later in October even later than that November December And there's not the pressure to get those in immediately. So I would prioritize your Banking finance applications over consulting or any that are not rolling Usually people have a mix and I think it's good too, but it also depends what stage you're in if you're applying for grad roles Then maybe you might want a better idea of what you want to do the time. I was applying I didn't I just wanted experience, but it depends like how fine-tuned you want it to be by the time you're applying And the online testing we did briefly mention that but maybe we could just have a quick chat about that part of things So numerical tests and things like that. So what's your experience of that and what advice would you have on that area? Yeah, so again, it's about I think it's about practice and it helps doing so many applications But there are three main Websites are used that I found were really helpful and replicated exactly the type of test that I'd be doing for an application And that's job test prep then assessment day and graduates first I actually had a free subscription for graduates first through LSE and I found that one one of the most useful for How represented if it was of the tests I was doing and basically I would just work through these Practice tests and get a good idea of where I was going wrong Which questions I was doing better on and just work through all their practice questions Ideally that would be done I say quite early on in the application phase around when you're Completing your CV, but it can be done at any time because I think None of the tests are too difficult They just test skills that we haven't used in a long time like mental maths Which I don't think anyone really does any more at university on a regular basis So something else I did which is useful and I know a lot of consulting Applicants do this is I downloaded an app called mere mere maths light. It's spelt M I M I R And it's just like Free app on your phone that you can do math questions on like 10 minutes a day And it's just addition suppression vision multiplication It's really useful and it just gets your brain backing gear working at the pace It could always work out. It's just you haven't used those muscles in a while So I think getting back used to that is is very useful But also when it comes to testing I'm surprised There's another side of it that I'm surprised that people don't always prioritise enough And that's just having a really good environment to do your test in So being in a quiet place, no disturbances Good like lighting or anything anything that you need to feel comfortable in in that space Because you are under time pressure You maybe ask difficult questions and it won't help if you if you're getting disturbed So I think just ensuring you have that and good Wi-Fi connection is the most important as well to help users I guess just maybe a personal insight here because you mentioned about having two hours Dedicating some time to lectures and catching up on notes and things like that So are you quite a stickler for like allocating time through a day? Question one and I guess the offshoot of that being how do you reward yourself in terms of Not like let's say that these are study and professional pursuit activities Like do you have like a pendulum that you need to balance to have this harmony to perform? Do you think? Yeah, I think it's funny. So I'm I'm saying with hindsight what I would do But did I stick to that every day? Definitely not because it's very hard and when you're enforcing application season It's hard not to prioritize your applications over university I think ideally try and keep a general structure in mind and a few hour blocks is what I find a useful way to Allocate my time just to visualize what I'll be doing at different times of the day and creating some sort of routine I've always found really really helpful And I think a lot of people also operate like that Otherwise, it's difficult to manage all the different things you have to do in a day But allow for a lot of flexibility because there are going to be Like inevitably times when you're going to get sent an email at 10 o'clock saying 10 p.m Saying you have a high view that you need to complete within a day or two and obviously that's going to throw Things everything that you had fun for the next day a little bit off out the window so be able to like account for that and 100% when it comes to balancing it with rewards is very very essential. I think My my favorite way to kind of reward myself is to do some form of exercise It sounds really cringy, but I just think when you're at a desk all day and you're like doing the same work Professively, it's really easy to get down. So I'd always like try go for a walk or go Play some sport and then also you can meet your friends through doing that and you know having some time off because The application season is longer than you think in your head because it starts in like August, September Then it can last all the way till next year May when you might actually be getting March Sorry when you're getting offers. So definitely have Some way to sustain yourself and scheduling things in but I think as a university student You get that anyway because even without applications, you'll be really busy And then you'll have to slot different things into your schedule last minute. So it's already good practice to Have a structure in mind but allow for it to be flexible Okay, well, look, you're moving smoothly through the application phase now and you've made it to interviews These typically divided into technical and behavioral. So maybe a little bit about your Experiences of those two and also preparation. So you're not like a straight econ Student so to speak.  Intimidated or you're looking at your peer group. Did you feel like disadvantaged tool and how did you feel that gap? And then when it comes to them all the execution side of doing an interview and being under pressure and Having a face-to-face and these sorts of things. So, you know, what was your take on that section? No, for sure. Good question. I think not only was I not a straight econ student I had No experience in finance really so it definitely and I think most people won't unless you've done a similar spring internship Which is really great to have but otherwise it's difficult to get that experience So I think technical question technical interviews are the most Kind of worrying when you went most stressful when you go into them So I'll start with maybe talking about behavioral and how to approach those and the good thing is There's a lot of crossover with high view questions with behavioral interviews So high views will usually ask you about your competencies and What you do in a situation if X happened or when if you displayed Compassion to a fellow worker these are the sort of questions you get in higher views And they're also the question you'd get in behavioral. So in that sense exact same prep ask yourself these questions record yourself speaking them and just have a few have two examples for each confidence competency on the back of your hand and You know, that's just about practice and then set moving on to the actually there's another Strand of like questions as well. I think motivational is also a really common question to ask especially in earlier stages of the interviews so Motivational for this I would say the most important thing is to build a story and build your own Narrative as to why you really want this role. So for me, it doesn't necessarily have to be true. It just has to flow I used an example of why I wanted to do health care investment banking because my parents are doctors And I never lived up to the expectation of becoming a doctor And it was just kind of like funny at the time But I could also make it believable and that's the most Important thing if you can try and sell like say you're doing engineering and you want to work in Industrial and investment banking sell why where the connection is there and that makes it a lot more believable And then when it comes to the questions about why this phone because that's also a really important motivational question You can if you can go on their website and find out a few facts about them that tie tie into your story Then it just makes everything More complete and makes you look like of more put together candidate who's thought more about why specifically this company? Because again, it links to the question you're asking at the beginning quantity of equality Everyone most people will be going quantity. I think but when it comes to the latest stages It becomes more about quality and that's when a little bit more work before each interview is required To create that story with that particular company But then when we move into technical questions, I think for me I actually wrote down a couple of things I used so when it came to IB technicals I used the 400 questions guide which you can just Google and get the free PDF And then I also used the Wall Street Oasis breaking into finance guide and again free online You can just access it and my biggest advice would be to stick to nailing the basics and prioritizing the real beginner information in the technical In the technicals be asked because you can spend a lot of time on the advanced questions But realistically that they will ask you in a 20 30 minute interview And if they do it as long as you have the basics you can at least work towards it with the help of the interviewer But the biggest thing with technicals is I think not to worry too much if this is where you Stumble more because I think a lot of companies are a lot more lenient on this aspect as Compared to behavioral or motivational because if you falter on the behavioral motivational, I think that's a lot Worse for a company to accept than a technical when you can learn technical, but you can't teach Behavioral motivation as easily There's actually another part of technical is also commercial. So commercial Awareness questions are different in the sense. You don't need like hardcore technical knowledge skill set But it's actually I think it's way more important to be nailing these to show your interest In the actual industry you'll be joining. So for these I use consultancy reports and you can just Google M&A trends or market trends 2023 such PWC Bain any consultancy and they'll write up a summarized document for The market trends and just use them and to show that you have that knowledge and you thought about The aspect of your career because it is really important You better mention Steven's deal room podcast on a Wednesday. Otherwise, he's gonna get upset No, I didn't actually use Find me a lot for that and then use that to be fair because it's it's all about finding like a really bite-sized way of Taking in information that you can use A caveat to this would be I think try and find a bit more specific information on a particular division or sector That you're interested in because then again, you can like display more interest that you've thought about in your interview Okay, cool. And then Going to like the final part which is say an assessment center and let's say now the COVID days touch wooded behind us in person you kind of go to a Big premises in Canary Wharf and obviously there's a lot of nerves about but how do you actually deal with? That situation I guess dealing with the other people that are with you and kind of I guess Looking at your competition so to speak and it's kind of like Is it collaborative? Is it competitive? Like how do you kind of manage that and then Any just broad tips? We don't need to go into all of the activities during an AC but more broadly speaking any kind of Quick wins or things that people might have not thought about that you think could be good to know ahead of time Yeah, for sure So I never had an in-person AC because I was definitely fully co-generation of applicants but I did intern over summer and In Canary where I definitely felt some of the most important things are dressing the pot It helps you feel confident, but it also plays Such an important subliminal role in what your interviewers think of you It's surprising how you know how much emphasis is put into this but especially in investment banking consultancy I think appearances really highly emphasized so bear that in mind I think that will give a really good first quick win easy impression if you can Dress well question on that then is I think as a guy It's quite easy to dress right in this context because You wear a suit Wear a white shirt don't have anything too outrageous generally dark shoes You can't really go wrong But as a woman is it is it more challenging like what sort of heels you wear? Like color lipstick makeup how much your earrings like I'm asking as a guy I don't I don't know but what is it is it more complex at all for a woman a hundred percent? I think as a guy okay not to underplay what a guy would need to wear But it is I think it generally easier and you can reuse outfits Maybe easier than a woman can my recommendation would be maybe to wear a tie I think that shows an interview that's like some people think not to wear a tie But I know quite a few people who always have said do and they think interview it reflects better But that's just you know personal preference, but for a woman I think my biggest advice is to play safe if you think a shirt is too loud or the neckline is like not You don't feel as comfortable in it. I just would not I wouldn't risk it I would just play a really neutral color The best thing is to not draw attention to yourself for your outfit You should look as good as as a part of that company when when you walk through those doors Or even if you're interviewing online and you shouldn't stand out compared to the employees You should wear something that maybe they would and that means I'd probably say not bright colors No, like kind of odd shaped t-shirt or anything Just wear as kind of comfortable and simple clothing as you can and play safe in that sense But again, no one no one's really worrying too much about what you wear as long as it meets a threshold That you look smart and prepared. So yeah, so it's a good point to know and on the heels part Because you did mention that I think that's a concern for a lot of girls Because I I didn't usually wear heels when I worked and I and no one that I really know who was working on the floor Walk heels either they're not they're not so much Like cared for in the working environment that I experienced anyway I think in consulting it's different heels are important more important But it's more important to have like comfortable smart shoes and not risk getting blisters the first time you wear the shoes Because every single intern that attend their training when I joined over summer had blisters and we were all walking really funny Should definitely prioritize the comfort as well. What about the Kind of I guess tying interviews. I'm sure in an AC there'll be more interviews The actual execution side of that Did you ever come across the situation where it was like a duo good cop bad cop or there was like a Seniority play where it was like the analysts associate But then you step up to the MD and then the differences and how that came across in the interaction Yes, so from my experience and from what I've asked of other people to Generally the more junior the interviewer you have I feel the more the more grilling you get in terms of your technical ability and your Relevant experiences and how you can apply to the role you're applying for because I think they're more interested in what it would be like to have you working Under them slash with them Whereas when you have a more senior person interviewing you I found there's a lot more emphasis on your personality and your behavioural traits and your motivation for being in that company So that's a huge distinction I've found not to say you won't be asked with like vice-versa But that's generally the trend I see and you can have interviews with multiple people and it's kind of expected that you'll be able to Converse with both of them without you know dividing your attention to distinctly between either one I think treat it as much as a conversation as you can and you'll get you'll be answering one question from one person And then the other interviewer will throw a different one at you So just being prepared for you to have multiple conversations or within the same space and or with each other is something to be ready for And I think the reason for this is it's preparation for what you'll be doing in the role So during my summer we had to do a case study and part of that the biggest part was the presentation in the final week Where we had to present to the entire senior management team for investment banking and this is like a room full of your team See the most senior people in in the investment bank and you have to Present your your case study. So you'll be asked questions from all over and they won't necessarily be linked So you just have to be ready for the questions to come and be accepting of each one You can't say sorry, let me just finish this one or let me just finish on this topic You just have to answer the question that you're being asked at that time And and then how did you find that experience with the other people who are going through The AC with you because not obviously not everyone's going to have success. So like how was that? Yeah interaction with the other people isn't I think as um, as Insincere as this may sound, but I genuinely did live like live by it during summer and during application process Is to treat people other applicants not as competition as much as you possibly can because realistically None of this is personal and this is my actually really good advice for how to deal with pressure in general in an AC if you accept that it's not personal and It's not a direct reflection of you as a candidate Then I think you'll be able to accept rejection or accept the pressure a lot better than if you put loads away on This is me applying for a role and they're rejecting me personally I think that's a really negative way to view it and in the same way when you come into An assassin center with multiple other people They're also in the same position as you and the company knows nothing about them or nothing about you except what you're going to Present on that day. So if you come into it with a competitive mindset The company is also monitoring how you behave with other candidates And that's incredibly incredibly important for the type of person that they want to hire who doesn't treat other people as People to be cautious of but people to work with and I found that in an AC the the friendliest people or the people who don't Kind of the easiest people to talk to and the ones that don't appear Threatened by other candidates are the ones who do the best because they kind of accept There's another 40,000 people applying for this role It doesn't matter me or me or the person that next week is going to get it Depends on your performance within with the actual interviewer So I think it kind of to the pressure when you compare yourself to people But it's not generally the most helpful thing to do. Yeah, no I think that's a good good way to end the conversation because I think it kind of breaks a lot of People's misconceptions about hey how they think I think you need to behave or how you need to present yourself And how you deal with other people whereas actually Just being quite natural and being quite normal is actually the best way to do it 100% I think at least JP Morgan, I think your your character is emphasized a lot How you how you approach people how you behave with people and I've met some of the most helpful people That I've ever been around during my time there and even the interns, you know We're all new I'm sharing like my notes that I did someone else's I'm gonna share Something with me and we all help each other if someone has like a lot more what to do I can see how I can help them and it just creates a really a really good environment where you can just learn from other people and I think as a bit of general overall advice having people with you during the application process is really really helpful in terms of You know asking them how they found their experience of particular company seeing if they can help you and then helping them back It really helps when if you have an AC with so you have an AC tomorrow with Company X if you can linked in search or find someone who had the same AC and ask them to help and then you help them back If they need it, it's a really really proven way to kind of up your chances of success. I think Right, okay, we've covered a lot of the ground Some really good tips some really good resources and links actually that you've mentioned so I'll do my best to try and Bookmark all of these in the kind of episode notes so that people can find them really easily Do you mind if people connect with you on LinkedIn if they find you? 100% that's Very welcome Okay, cool. Well all the best with your finals and your return to JP and yeah, we'll speak again soon. Thank you Thanks, Gauri You


You know the crazy thing is if Donald Trump got into office, which he won't he'd probably be okay with this I'm Brandon Keith Avery, and this is just my opinion All right guys, we got another crazy premise on our hands coming with the purge election year This is the third chapter in the purge series. I saw the first one I saw the second one and of course we're here to talk about number three the third one election year Now all three of these films have been directed and written by the same person They're also distributed by the same production company, which is platinum dunes That's Michael Bay's a small production company if you don't know his name, of course He did the Transformers movies bad boys one and two He also did the rock and Armageddon and Pearl Harbor and the island and 13 Our secret soldiers of Benghazi or secret war Benghazi. He also did pain and gain You know, it's kind of all over the place, you know, I like the guy, but you know as a director You know, he needs to leash But he is behind the production company he is behind the production of this film here and also his platinum dunes and when I was looking it up on IMDB they actually have produced all of these films and Platinum dunes is they usually make Extremely cheap horror films and dump them off in January and February and they make a proper a profit a profit from them But the guy that directed this film his name is James de Monaco He wrote and directed the first second and third and I absolutely hated the first movie I thought it was completely dumb characters were just making decisions left and right. It just didn't make any logical sense I mean, I thought it was a great plot a great premise to purge You know, it's legal to kill people for 12 hours. No, I don't want that to happen in real life But in a fake fictional world I wanted to see that on the big screen and I didn't sit on the big screen I rented it before I watched purge to anarchy at home and I hated the first purge, but Frank Grillo came back in part two with Often to say paying the game with the purge anarchy and I was about to say I love that film But I didn't love it, but I did like it a lot. I don't own it But if I were to catch it, you know for a few dollars or you know for a reasonable price Ed Wal-Mart or your local bargain Ben store wherever are there even local bargain Ben stores or anyway, I will buy and I really did like The purge anarchy because it took the characters and put them in a completely different position Then it wasn't the first film. They wasn't confined to the house They were able to run around in the city and they had to you know hide and attack and do all these types of things And it was really entertaining. It had a nice human touch to it at the end Regarding morals and you know, I thought it was a pretty good film. I really did enjoy it So purge election year is coming out. I'm seeing all the trailers. I'm looking around. It's like, oh my gosh I mean, they're just taking this to a whole nother level Just with the psyche of the American people and how freaking nuts they possibly can be Because in the trailers, I you know, I don't watch trailers too much anymore because I feel that they do spoil the movie and I find that in myself that I enjoy a film a lot more if I Go in with the littlest possible By seeing less trailers But the trailers that I did see I was I was already, you know engaged the first one I saw and they just was putting this religious twist on the film and It just really seemed eerie and uncomfortable and I'll go ahead and say now that now I'll kind of jump to the end of my review is I did enjoy that and in the film and I'll touch on that a Little bit later, but let's start at the beginning for the purge election year And I was going in with this with mediocre expectations This didn't make any top 10 20 or possibly even top 50 year Top 50 most anticipated films that I want to see of the year But I wasn't I wasn't like, you know, you know slag and long drives and I was in the movie theater I thought it was gonna be pretty good. I like the last one I you know, I was just going hey I just want to see some people kill other people in a nice creative way And I like the fact that this senator is just trying to get rid of it. She's trying to abolish it She's like this is corrupting the people, you know We need to get out of there and then you got the the newfound fathers They're like no we like being on top and you know, not nothing's gonna change and they're trying to execute them With Frank Grillo at the helm being the secret. Well, he's not really secret service, but he is her bodyguard So I was going in I was looking forward to it and I really You know thinking I was gonna have a good time and the beginning of the film. I really did like it They really did paint the picture For the senator on why she feels the way she feels why she's taking such a strong stance against the purge I mean, they did that well as soon as the film started off You're kind of at the edge your seats is full of tension. You don't know how the scene is going to play out You know, and it was really good and it's getting you on board and then you know, the the film continues on and What I'm liking about the film is this actor named McKelty Williamson and that name probably doesn't ring a bell for you, but I know you know him.  He was in a few other movies, but he was Blue in the forest gum force gum bubble blue Bubble gum all that good stuff, you know, he is in this movie He played a pretty important role and I like them. He was the comedy relief in this film I've seen him did been dabbing a few other films here and there besides Conair and force gun But it's just beyond me right now But he was one of the main Protagonist in this film that you know, you're on his side. You want him to live Throughout the movie you want him to beat the person I and I liked him and everything that has to do with him in the world That's surrounding him You got a real sense of home and love where he comes from and it was just really easy to get on board with Him himself and the surrounding characters That the film really did a great job of making you feel for him and his little side story or subplot Now a little bit later.  I liked him in this one He didn't do anything much more than the last film But you know, he held his own and you know, I was I was on his team, too You know, and it's really sad because it was a really good setup with how they brought this film together And when the purge starts and you actually want to see all the carnage in the mayhem in the destruction Or you want to see the bad guys chasing the good guys and the good guys having to get away It took a while for that to come to fruition. They wanted to expand on another subplot Set up earlier and at first I was kind of wondering what the hell is going on But then there was a smaller building like, oh, okay I like how the film is circling their back around with this little plot point here But then they just went completely off the rails Head first into a pool with no water with their head time tied behind their back And I just didn't understand why the film went this way and then they did get back on course But it was horrible. Let's just say that in the first third of this film they tried to set up a small mini villain and My take my opinion that small mini villain in the first third of this movie was absolutely horrible It was just ridiculous. I mean you could have grabbed anyone off the streets And they could have put together a better acting performance than these two ladies here But it was bad. It was laughably bad and it was a distraction It's the beginning of the purge and what they're supposed to be doing is just you know letting the audience know just like you know Hey, you're in for a nice through arrived But you know, no, it was a horrible introduction to the purge and I just wasn't feeling it and you know The film just moves on and it moves on more and more and then you're just sitting there And then you're sitting there more and more and then you just realize and okay nothing is happening You like the characters you like to set up, but actually nothing is happening Somewhere in Hollywood another executive or somebody was like hey, let's make another purge movie Movie with people killing people for no reason, but no one is killing anyone.  I'm just sitting there watching and I'm just saying okay Nothing's happening. There's something would happen. It would be nice is is exactly what you came to see the movie for But it just dips off again into another boring zone and it does at about three or four times So where you just sitting there and you're like Man this movie is boring. I mean I don't understand how you have a movie about people killing people But no one's killing anyone. I just don't understand and you you know you have to use your brain too that the smart logical thing to do is if if murder is legal for 12 hours and Emergencies and police and firemen, you know, they're out of there for 12 hours The smart thing would do is just hide underground or duck cover or just not being the streets You know making noise for no reason and I kind of like how at the very beginning of the film They kind of gave a small Semi valid reason why a normal person would go out into the purge But the person had to make the decision like hey, you know I don't have the protection that I had before So if I don't protect what's mine, I'm gonna lose it and this is all I have left You know, I may die, but if I lose this establishment, I'm gonna die a little inside anyway I like that. That's cool. That's giving depth to the character But don't have that care to make a dumb ass decision Five seconds after that if he wants to protect this establishment be smart about it Let's hide in darkness and not stand on a rooftop You know waving your gun in the air looking around making threats where everybody can see you If someone is walking by or driving by be quiet and let them go by don't bring any attention to yourself So that's just besides the movie being boring a little bit and then you know You have characters here and there that are just making dumb decisions It's just bringing the film down just a little bit more and more and more But then we go on and on and let's get to the writing or the story Literally in the middle of this movie It is so blatantly obvious that you can tell that the director James de Monaco ran out of a plot He just ran out of stuff to do so he had to just come up with a dumb reason to throw The good guys back into the fray back into the purge and then you find out that it was completely Unnecessary for him to do that because he came back around with a smart way to give the film a reason to continue on So it went left again, but it came back and it got on course But it's just another reason to bring the film down But the film kept doing that if I wanted to call this a movie I would feel more comfortable calling it a roller coaster because it started real good with character depth motivation And just making you care about what's going on But you know it gets boring but then it comes back up and then the character does something stupid and it goes back down And you get some action that comes back up and it just does that until the very end to where you get a You know a similar good climax, but it's just nothing running out of the theater to where you have to say Hey, you need to go see this movie, but I was talking about what was so sick and Disgusting towards the beginning of this review and again, it's just a psyche of the people They put a like a horrible religious twist on how people try to you know Switch up the the good book or the word and Lord God said that it's okay to kill people and this and that and it Would just just like oh my gosh I mean like I hope that this country and a billion years from now However, however long everybody here that this just never happens because this is disgusting Purge you want to purge to of course they have people killing everybody But it was just the mindset of these people in this church So just they just knew they were right, but they were just so wrong with this just just It was just disgusting and I hope this never comes true now out of all three purges Part two is my favorite The election year is my second favorite in part one.  Yes a six out of ten, but guys That's just my opinion Have you seen the purge election? Do you want to see it? Have I turned you on? Have I turned you off? Do you agree with me or do you disagree with me? Let me know in the comment section below Let's get this conversation going and keep it flowing if you like this video Go ahead and give me the thumbs up and if you didn't like this video That's fine. Just leave me a comment below why and still give me the thumbs up Since you're watching this on YouTube go ahead and subscribe to the YouTube channel So you become one of my subscribers and get all the content that I have to provide in the past and in the future Also, if you want to find me on any other platforms you can you go over to the website find a written review of this I said the bottom of the screen or any other social media platforms Instagram and Twitter at just my opinion 84 and guys Share the video. I promise you I will not get mad if you share the video if you share it I promise I'll keep it between me and you but anyway guys Thank you for tuning in for my opinion slash review for the purge election year and before you go Don't forget that my name is brandy Keith Avery and that's just my opinion Peace


Well, it's 6.05, so I'll just call the meeting, well, I'll reconvene the meeting at 6.05, and imagine Jack will show up. So this should be a relatively simple one. We've got the folks from Down Street here, and I won't characterize what the issues are here. And I do know that they have agreed to present, it's a common issue that's at question here, that they will all be presented under one presentation, is that correct? We can do that. And it doesn't have to be that way, I'm just going, but it certainly doesn't have to be. And we, of course, start with the assessor, who's I suppose prepared to do the same, and that you all are planning on allowing us to waive inspections, since it's really more of a matter of facts. That's absolutely correct. All right, then. Well, it is the same meeting, so Marty, you're still under oath, if I could get you two to identify yourselves, two for the record, then we can go around and everybody can identify themselves. I'm John Davis from Ever North, I'm a senior asset manager. Chris DeVolo from Downstreet, the financial controller. So Downstreet and Ever North are in partnership with most of them? Ever North? Okay. We're partners in, I'm sorry, I'm not going to have the exact number in front of my ad here. I know I'm trying to remember too. At least four of them of the eight. And Downstreet is the sole owner of the other ones. Okay. Our sole general partner. Well, let me go ahead and get both of you sworn in. If you raise your right hands. Under the pains and penalties of perjury, do you solemnly swear that the evidence you give and the cause under consideration shall be the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. I do. You want us to go around and introduce ourselves? Yeah. You want to start? I'm Kim Chamberlain. I'm Sal O'Connor, District 2 Councilor. I'm Daisy. I'm Mark Leopold. I'm Mary Cooper and I wanted to mention and to ask the appellants of the board, I, during my tenure in the legislature, worked on appropriations issues and in fact worked very hard to bring money to a broad housing conservation board which funds Downstreet and the right to work with Evermore. I don't think I have a conflict, but I, it passed through my mind so I felt I had an obligation to say something. And if anybody has an opinion, I think we need to hear it now and if you do, I can go home. I think, if I could put my two cents in, I think it might actually help to have your expertise on this. For what it may or may not be. No, I think it would be beneficial. Yeah. I just felt that it was important to disclose that but not say it or hear it in anybody else's. As we go around to, if anybody has any conflict of interest and or if it's part of a communication that you would indicate. I'm Kerry Brown. Tim Heaney. Rosie Krueger. I'm Rose. Newman. I'm John Odom. Marty Liger said I'm the assessor. Okay. And you all received a copy of the rules of procedure that I sent out. Correct. I came with the first letter. Oh. I have it. I don't have it with me today. That's okay. You all got it. Okay. So Marty, why don't we have you introduce the properties on appeal, describe the properties and give us your report. So I think what we can do is we'll just go over once. It's going to be, it's not real complicated. On the front page, you'll see that there's highlighted 21 Hebert and 208 Berry Street. That's attached to that as pertaining to that property. And also for the next one, the next one. It's basically just copies of everything. Yeah. I saw. Yeah. The first page is going to be the state probably as Mary knows has a formula how to calculate subsidized housing. You put in your income. You put in your expenses. It gives you the value. The question is expenses. So on the first page, we have highlighted a $141,156 as reported actual expenses. If you'll flip two pages on the backside, you'll see another one. It says 157,750. So this is where the issue is, is there are some reported expenses. A little further down on page five. It's circled and highlighted. And this is the difference between the two reported expenses as reported by the reappraisal contractor and as given by the downstream folks. So the difference in the two reported income, the expenses. Is everybody see that 13,000 in bad debt and then 3321 in miscellaneous administrators. Everybody see that? That's the difference in the value in reported actual expenses. So that's where the differences are coming in assessed value is based on what's allowable for real estate expenses. The reappraisal contractor informed me that they couldn't get a description of what the bad debt and the miscellaneous administrative fees were. So, excuse me, so they were discounted. And that's where we come up with the value on the second page on the bottom right hand corner is going to be the assessed value as assigned by the reappraisal contractor of 924,000. The sheets as reported by downstream gives a different value of 762,000, which is down the bottom right hand corner. The second page right here gives a actual expenses of 141,156. That's down the bottom right hand corner gives us a value of 924,000 for that project. That's reported by the reappraisal contractor. So that's page two. If you flip to page the back of page three, the reported expenses there as provided by downstream differ by roughly $16,000. And that's where the difference in assessed value is. And it's going to be the same case for all the properties. They're highlighted. The expenses in question. As you can see, the report from the accounts there to read over. The expenses in question on exhibit B are circled and highlighted. And these are going to be the same for all of them. One last, is everybody okay with that? Yeah, sorry. The report from the accounts, is that accounts employed by the breakers? That somebody downstream uses. This is third party certified public account audit, which is, I think there's probably an extra packet. More I just want to look at. As I understand it, there is, but the reappraisal contractor wasn't able to get a clear answer on the two better in question. I thought I did. I'm re-adding it right now to check, but I thought I did. I don't know when you want me to chime in. Yeah, are there questions for the assessor? I wasn't sure if you were done yet. Yes. So my understanding correctly that if we could find out, if they present evidence of what those are, and determine what those are on all of them, then it's pretty straight forward. If we can come to an agreement on the expenses, then there shouldn't be an issue. But like I said, the reappraisal contractor tried to dig into it and couldn't find those as being legitimate real estate expenses. There's an explanation on there of, just as management payroll, workers comp, training, phone, internet, various things at the very bottom of exhibit B, but it wasn't specific. So you're saying the expenses were found, but they were not being presented for real estate expenses? Correct. So all of the expenses were found, all $16,000 plus dollars were found, but the budget was not legitimate? Not legitimate real estate expenses. Is this a legal question? There should be some legal clarification somewhere. It's over my head. That's not a determination that I can make. This is a unique situation in so far as I'm speaking now. But if there's a law that says what you can include what you can, and there's a dispute as to whether these fall on the side of the line or the other. Yeah. Supposedly, I was told by the reappraisal contractor they were following the statute of what's allowable and what's not allowable. Let's finish with the questions for the assessor real quick. So I don't know if this is okay, but I looked up the instructions for filling out that worksheet, and it didn't really help me. What he says is expenses means the operating expenses ordinarily associated with income appraisal, such as maintenance and repairs, including reasonable reserves for replacement and for costs and supplies. Mortgage payments including interest or amortization associated with mortgage payments, capital improvements and depreciation are not expenses, and that's what it says in the instructions. I don't know if there's any more specific guidance in the statute, but it sounds like the idea. So I'm hearing this right, is that the appraiser looked at this and said bad debt and miscellaneous administrative expenses are not something that you would ordinarily count as an operating expenses? Correct. Is that right? Yes. I did not. Okay, any other questions for Marty? I feel like I do have a question about not sure what it is. I feel that way every day. Yeah. So just to make sure I've talked enough about the problem. So the core dispute is whether or not we're going to have to report miscellaneous administrative expenses to kind of aggregate expenses. Correct. Correct. That's the difference. That's the only part.  It makes a big difference in the past decade. So the question is, what is our, what is the assessor's evidence that this should be disallowed? And you're saying that the appraisal company, their interpretation of the statute and the existing information was that this says this is not allowed. Correct.  They're covering, I mean, they did my players reappraisal last, last time in 2010. They're familiar with St. Johnsbury as a same, you know, type of low income housing. So they're, I'm relying on them. Should they give you a citation or any direction that's aware of what they were referencing? They referenced Title 32, Chapter 21, Subchapter 004. That actual expenses incurred with respect to the property that should be provided by the owner in a format acceptable to the commissioner. So he's, he's not the commissioner. I'm not the commissioner, but this is being presented to the commissioner, obviously. So they didn't feel that it met that criteria. So Title 32, Chapter 1, 004. 004. I can, I can even copy. Yeah. I'm just going to read this. You're Cedar Way. There was one late addition to it. The one, the very last one didn't fall in the first seven. 34 Main Street, the French Walk, above all. Same situation. Disparency and expenses are circled on page two. And along with that one is attached to a property record card for that particular property. That property is carried in an assessment of $400,000, $5,800 since 2019. No, not at all. Yeah, of course. The, the last prop number, the eighth property did not, it's not on the front, the list of seven is separate by itself. It's the French block of 34 Main Street above Audishon. Same situation, the reported income. On the front page is given by the reappraisal contractor. Second page is the disputed, or the, sorry, the questioned expenses. And the third page is as submitted by Down Street. Any questions about that last one? What was the reason for impeding the rent to the property record card? That one has, had that one been carrying the assessed value of $485,000 since 2019. And I just wasn't sure why it was questioned before, so I was hoping to get an answer from them tonight. I'm not sure this is relevant, but was this an issue in 2010 or the last time it appeared? I would have to check with Steve. I don't know. Bill, the contractor is actually in Italy right now. I have to wait until he comes back to pick his brain about it. I would assume that there was some, you know, work to figure it out of what's, what's allowed or what's not. I don't think they appealed any of them in 2010. This is the first time. Yeah, can I just run it over to you? You probably understand this better than I do. I subtract it back twice because I think I can't. Can I, can I speak? I just think you will have a chance. Okay. Yeah, I assume so. Unless anyone has any questions for me. No, Mary has a copy. That actually looks like Jack has a copy. Yeah, I have a copy and for, you know, we can ask John to get it out to people if you want, but it's 32 BSA section 3481 subsection 1B. And that's the definition section and it defines appraisal 1A as appraisal value and then B sets forth the methodology for computing the appraisal value for this kind of housing. Can you either go to the court or the PBR to the property evaluation and. Yeah. So it seems to me a purely legal issue, but I don't feel very confident that I'm scrambling what I really say about it. Well, I would say, I mean, this is a matter of process to the burden of proof is on the appellant. Yeah. So I guess that should inform our decision. The problem is, you can be doing a brilliant analysis, but I have no way of knowing whether it is or not. I mean, that would be part of the appraiser to be part of an expert in this situation and not. Yeah. Essentially, yeah. Yeah. Are we ready here from the taxpayer? I apologize, everybody. I thought I had this down for six o'clock, not 630. So maybe 630, not six o'clock. So here I am. I should have called. You were in a ditch. Nope. I survived that. That's good. So, let me just say, from my own perspective and probably other perspectives, people, this is one of those, explain it to me like a five-year-old situations. Okay. Why did what they did, why is what they did wrong? Well, I actually, I have not recently read the Vermont statutes online in this particular thing. However, my instructions to you were, Christy, here's how I approach this. I have done this for almost as long as this law has been in effect. I have always excluded bad debt as an expense because it is the right off of uncollected rent from previous years that will never be collected. So you essentially say, I know I'm never going to get paid this. So I'm going to expense it in the current year. It's not an expense. So I'm not disputing that. I don't know about the math because when Christy is looking at this particular property where you did that math, she excluded that in her analysis. And we think that it's possible that the appraisal company did it twice. Okay. And that's possible. And the other admin expenses, Christy has a listing of what they are. And they are fees that we have to pay to the finance agents. The Vermont Housing Finance Agency that charges fees for monitoring that the program, the low income housing tax credit program is complied with both by physical inspection and file inspections. Bank fees that we pay to banks, which are not, they're not. It's to process payments. To process payments of tenants online payments. $400, $405 of social services and training for their staff that they built for the project.  I don't know that the appraisal company, I don't under, you know, I don't know that they reached out to, they didn't reach out to me. And I'm unaware if they reached out to Christy to tell them what the miscellaneous admin expenses are. They're not in the audit. They don't typically go into that level of detail in an audit because they lump those, that kind of those expenses together. So I'm not at disputing at all that bad debt should be, bad debt should not be included. So I'll agree with that. And I don't know if there's some, and honestly, I've done probably hundreds of these analysises, analyses. And it's not difficult to make math errors. However, I know on the properties that we share, I went through them to help Christy with them and double check the math and got to a point where we came up with evaluation. We have a spreadsheet that shows there's discrepancies and we weren't really clear. We were, we came to Marty to say Marty, I'm not really sure what, why there are different values from what the appraiser company did, the appraisal company. But you didn't have them here to be for us to be able to ask them. So the, in the cover letter, I'm following every, we are following every other thing where we're excluding the other expenses that are not to be included, including amortization, depreciation, debt service. And any capital improvements that we make because we are instead, as the statute states, the required deposits to replacement reserves, which I don't want to get into details with that. But we're just basically, these properties are funding an account to be able to handle capital improvements that happen throughout the life of the property. So when we have to replace a roof in the future, we have money saved up to actually do that. And it doesn't come out of the operating expenses of the property as a result. So do you say you're not counting those as expenses? You count the deposits to the replacement reserves that are required by the funding sources, essentially, or the partnership agreement. But you're not including the expenses that you pay, the capital expenses that you have are excluded. Okay, okay. So you're not double counting it? You're not counting it and it goes into the reserve? No, it goes into the reserve. Anything that comes out of the reserve is not included in expenses. Got you. Because it's not an operating expense. It is a capital expenditure using another fund to pay for. On the small child or golden retriever line, I'm just trying to throw this out. Because to me, it's very foreign that real estate is evaluating this as an accounting exercise. Clearly, the numbers are part of the evaluation, but there are other factors. And it feels like we're reducing it to an auditable accounting exercise. I guess I don't understand the rules for this. Are they different than other properties we're reviewing? Yes. The Act 75 is the law that requires that housing properties with a housing subsidy covenant are required to have used an income approach where... I understand. Okay. And we're not using the income of the property as the basis. We're using the size of the units, the fair market rents in the area where they are. And that... In one of your things, you'll see that page that looks like this. I don't know if you can see it from there. One of those, right? There you go. That says, for residential property, there's a subject to housing subsidy covenant, blah, blah, blah. There's a spreadsheet that the State Department of Taxes has online that you plug in your other income, essentially the type of units you have and the actual expenses you have from an audit. And it comes up with evaluation. So it's a mathematical situation. So that's essentially how Act 75 is the rule and that Act 75, it's called Act 75 worksheet that is produced by the tax department. It is produced by the tax department. So we can come in and there's some things we can change and some things we can't. We change the unit numbers, whatever utility allowances are. Those are things that the tenants pay for. And that's an allowance, not actual costs. We don't know that. But that's based also in the Act 75 worksheet as another tab that tells you what the utility allowances are for your area and the size bedrooms. And then your other income that you have, you plug in that number, you plug in your reported actual expenses. You're presuming there's a 100% valuation because you're re-evaluating the whole town and then it gives you a listed value. It's an income approach, but it's not an income approach that anybody else would use to come up with, right? So it's like a specific approach. A little bit of fiction building. I'm sorry, what? A little bit of fiction building. Yep. Go ahead. In this particular case, it's a $300 argument. You agree that the bad debt can't be included? That's correct. So it's a $300 argument. Well, I don't know that. With the issue, well, there's a couple of things. I mean, the issue is that when I, because I double checked to make sure, because I excluded the bad debt already. So the calculation that was given to me for the first one that we did, I figured out the difference and basically the bad debt expense that I already excluded was excluded again. Yeah. Because I already had left it out of the calculation. You folks have me a lunch. Figure that out, right? I think so. The reappraiser contractor was trying to get an explanation of the miscellaneous. Right. In whether that was allowable. Which I did send on some of the attachments that had the breakdown down below everything that's in that line. Okay. And I think I sent it for all of the properties with the exception of French block. I don't think I sent it for that one, but I sent that breakdown for all of them, except that. Yeah. And I know they are on his, these are copies that he gave me. So he did communicate with you, but still, I guess, didn't accept your answer. So. Right. Right. So that's what we need to figure out is how to, to get past the miscellaneous expenses. Is that real estate related? Yeah. And then confirming that the, The math is wrong. Yeah. Well, and confirming that the bad debt got subtracted twice. I mean, based off of what I just calculated it did, at least on that first one. Can we just go to somebody at PBR and get an explanation of someone at the tax department? You have a district coordinator for? I do. Yes. I'm sorry? I do. Okay. Yeah. And my years of doing this. I have a question. Okay. Kim, then, Sal. Are you saying you don't know whether this is double counted or not? And I'm no way verifying that as you sit here tonight. No, I got information from the real price contractor a couple of days ago and they, they're sure that their information is accurate. And it should not be double counted. They're claiming it isn't double counted. Right. So. So my question is for Downstreet, do you have the list of expenses for all of these properties? I do. Yes. And is it double counted or not? The one I just did is, yes. Which one's happening? That was the first one. The 21 Heber and 208 Berry Street is double counted because I recalculated it while you were explaining some of this stuff. The expenses? That goes to expenses? That difference of 16,229 is, which actually is, I'm looking at a corrected sheet because I kept being told that maybe we need to subtract social services. So I did subtract that. So my numbers are off by just that much, which is only like 400 bucks. The difference between those two comes out to the 13,273, which was the bad debt expense, which I already excluded, and, and then the miscellaneous admin expense. So that is the difference between the numbers that of the 141,146 and then the numbers that's on that sheet. It's really on these two sheets, I think. Yeah. Well, yeah, because this, this one, this number is excluding social services. So that's, that's what the difference is, but it's like a 375 difference. So you want to follow up on what you just heard? Well, I mean, if we have a list of the expenses that were used for these calculations and the bad debt is excluded. Then it's just a question of the other admin, right? Of what can be included with the admin. You have this for every one of these properties tonight that shows mine item, everything in there. Yes. Donna, sorry, dude, and then Mary, I think. Well, we have a lot of reports here from your audits. Are any of those numbers we can take that are? Well, you have to, fortunately, have to pick through them. Yeah, they're, yeah. Yes, you have all the audits. You do. You have all the actual source. I can say these are the numbers from this page in the audit that went into this, that adds up to this. Yes. I had sent, I don't know if you have a copy of it, but I had sent, well, some of them I just put a note of the breakdown. Some of them I attached the detailed breakdown. I did it two different ways, which I don't know why. But anyways, the info is all there. But yeah, so the auditors do lump that miscellaneous admin. But I always know what's in it because I have to know what's in it. So the numbers don't really show the numbers. You have to do something to it. You do have to break out where the numbers came from, correct? Yes. I feel like this is a question for the auditors and this chief financial officer to get together and hash it out. I just feel like I certainly don't have that expertise with the math that you do. I don't know what you mean by what the auditors. The auditors saying you should. The assessor. The assessor. Okay. Because I was like, well, okay. I was thinking our auditors. It just feels like there's a difference of opinion between our assessors and this particular person. So I feel like they're the ones that need to hash it up open.  Well, it was to suggest that this just seems to be a matter of a fact of needing to lay both parties facts outside by side. We can't determine if that's been double counted here. For example, we have no ability to do that. Whereas I assume this is a personal company. And so I wonder if we can't ask before we even appointed many are having a conversation about how to go forward. Just ask for additional information to confirm what each property is and get agreement or find out the areas of disagreement. John, you know, and this is, I share the same concerns and just sort of to think out loud about the process. My concern is that as soon as this part shuts down and we've asked all our questions, assuming we're going to do what everyone has been assuming them to forego the inspection. That we go into the deliberative period and when we go into the deliberative period, we got to make a decision. And if we're not in a position to have those numbers laid out, then how do we make our decision? But I also then am concerned if it's just a matter of getting you all together again, that puts you in a position. I feel like of having to withdraw from this process and work directly with the assessor and that's an act of faith too. So I'm just very concerned about how to proceed. And let me, and Kim, I'll get to you right after that. I don't think we necessarily would have to do that. I think we could suspend this hearing and say you people sit down and figure this out. You know, one of the things that occurs to me is that the statute says that one of the things that comes into this is actual expenses incurred with respect to the property that shall be provided by the property owner. And so is there a dispute about what's countable as actual expenses? You know, that could be a factual determination that we have to make if there is a dispute and it's not clear to me whether there is. But how, I agree, I don't see how sitting around this table we can do this. Kim. I think we should suspend this hearing and direct the parties to work together. And if they're unable to appoint a competent, mutually appoint a competent CPA to guide them. Come back when they've, this, they should hash this out. If they need some third party help, they should be instructed to get it. And while we're on this point, since John, you raised that question. Down street at this point, are you waving the inspection? Yes. Waving the inspection. So that's on the record. Because it's all numbers. As we were all talking about, but we wanted to make sure it's on the record. We would waive an inspection because the basis for the valuation has nothing to do with the physical condition. Unfortunately, at all. It's, it's tied to. Good with that. Yeah. Go ahead. John, Mary. Sorry. Yeah. And just to make a note again, just to remind people for, for process. If we do put this aside and then return to it later, we need to be cognizant of the fact that if we, by the time we return to it, the executive order has been lifted. Then as I read the statute, we have to have inspections of all the patients. Regardless. You can, you can be pretty, I think those inspections could be, might wind up being pretty cursory if we have to be done. I'm not sure that it's necessary to hire a third party. And so I just didn't want the higher groups to think that they have to go out and do that. I think it is really a matter of people sitting down side by side and saying, yes, we agree or yes, we double counted or no, we didn't. And then if you need help, they'll find the help you need. But they're saying it. No, I agree. So yeah, and ideally what I'd like to see them come back with is like a sheet of paper with each property, what they say, what it, what the dispute is, and then we have something we can decide. So it's clear to us, for the Bianchi block, this is the dispute, we agree to this and we continue to dispute this. Yep. And it's usually laid down for us to understand. Rosie. So I did hear that the miscellaneous expenses, that was one that was in question. Where the assessors were saying that's not allowable and you're saying that these are expenses incurred in your real estate. Is that, that feels to me like that's something for us to decide. And you had mentioned what those exact expenses were for the first property, but I think maybe we want to hear what the exact expenses were. Right, because it is a little different for each one because they're broken out a little differently for each property. So miscellaneous admin for that property includes those things that we discussed. Sometimes there's more or less in another one, it just varies. Most of them always have, if there's the LIHTCP, which was what you talked about with the tax credit, that's on the majority of them. Their portion of our property management software is on almost all of them. The bank fees line really incorporates charges that have to do with, we have a way that our tenants can pay online and we incur the cost of the expense of taking those credit card and debit card payments. So that's what those charges are so the tenants don't have to pay those. And then some of it has to do, we also have like our site management, their portion of payroll and training and then for some phone and internet is also included in that miscellaneous admin. So they're all expenses that are part of the daily operations. So you have Barrie Street, if you look at the bottom of the page for Barrie Street, there's a whole list of things that are more than what's on the Heber Road page. Because some have a lot more of a longer list but they all have a list somewhere in there that's provided for all of them. And so there could be an argument for each one of those, well those are not legitimate expenses as defined in the statute, right? So those are allowable expenses? Well, I don't know the answer to that. One side says yes, one side says no, so we'll get some clarity. Yeah, I don't think that's on the market side. Yeah, and it says actual expenses incurred with respect to the property. And so it's kind of broad and kind of vague. So I don't know what the answer is, Mary. So I was presuming from your statement I may believe maybe, but that you're taking essentially down the street administrative costs and allocating them out over the property. Correct, yes. But it's only four, not all administrative costs. Administrative, it's property management cost. The administrative cost is not in there. It's the property management. So when I say like some of the payroll net, that's the property management, the property managers, not like not even not my income or executive directors or any of that. It's just the people who are directly working with the property. That's an interesting question then to us as to what's in and what's out. Well, we have a lot of sheets here. I don't have any idea why they're really here. When it really comes down to this form sheet where our auditors have reported actual expenses on one side and they, on the other side, it says what they're reporting. And to me, those are the backup of these two numbers. The 15775 on one and the 146 something on the other. The backup of those numbers to me is the only thing I need to know. That's what's different. And then we'll know it's indeed, if we'll put that 13 shows up. Let's give you a list of that number. There we go. And then we can vote. We can make a decision to vote on those. I could. That's my question. Well, the audit, the entire audit has provided you to whoever we're providing the entire audit because we don't, you know, we're providing the entire audit so that the audit is there. And I can't be told, oh, you only gave me two pages of the audit. And even though that might show everything that's needed, I don't know that that's necessarily all that's needed. There may be something else I need to see. So I might be overkill. Typically what we do is provide a cover letter. We provide the state formula, the act 75 worksheet and then the entire audit. You carry Mary Kim. Sorry. Is there any chance you could direct us to some spot within this audit that could show us where you got your total operating expenses? I think the hard part with that is that we do is that we do have to exclude some things like the bad debt. We also have to exclude the real estate taxes are actually excluded on that as well and any loan interest and any mortgage and interest payments. One year ago? They are listed and they're excluded. So if we're to cross them out? Yeah. So you don't have to. And then everything else up, we'd get to 157.750. Right. Which property are you looking at? I think she's looking at Bianca. Bianca 157. Yeah. Okay. Bianca. Yeah. Yeah. So if you went through that and excluded, yeah, the bad debt line and you excluded the property tax. Excluded the interest on mortgage payable and interest on notes payable. Excluded depreciation expense. And try to make sure I didn't forget anything that needs to be excluded. Then that, yeah, that's everything that should be excluded. Then yeah. Oh, and we forgot the other part. You have to add in what was transferred for replacement reserve. And it does state that in there that you can add in the replacement reserve requirements. So that's 12,400 and, oh wait, no, that was not 12,040 on that, was it? No, that was 3,121, right? No. Why do I have that written over here? Hold on, sorry. 1040. The 12,480 is how much was actually put into replacement reserve. So you do have to add that into that number after you exclude the other. And that's how that, that's where the numbers came from. Kim and Bob. I just wonder, it sounds like the parties did not have a real discussion of these questions. No, we have not. I did not know where they got their numbers from. They came from you, Bill. I think there should be some written presentation on both sides after you meet and see what you can agree to, because this is mind boggling. There's no way I can give you any. So I'm going to renew my no motion with this. I'm sorry. You price your circle of what they took out. It's very straightforward. We may not agree with the numbers, but they took out that and the slantiest. Right. That's the dispute. It's two numbers. Right. It's right there. They took out. No, I don't think that's the problem. I haven't seen one for a while. You guys don't want to see it? Yeah, we haven't seen what the ubiquitous thing is. Oh, go ahead. It sounds like we're going to end up getting together. Yeah. I'll give you a packet tonight to take with you of what their discrepancies are, and then we'll figure it out. And Bob, you have a question? You had your hand there, so yeah. It was sort of on the same line as, was there any informal discussion at all? So, Marty and the two of us met, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna remember a date, but in the last two months that the agreement was, well the agreement's hearing and then you know, you got the flood and pour over here after the flood, so it was after the flood. It was after the flood, I guess. And I don't think you knew at the time more exactly what their, I don't know, we did not see, hey, this is what they're saying, they are excluding that we are including. So, you know, so, and I, maybe that's the best thing to do is to say, we need to sit down and talk about those, because I don't think we had those, and if you can give them to us, and then we can go through and say, okay, here's the, because I, at the beginning of the process, when Christie and I were working on this, I basically went through each of the audits and said, pick this number, this number, this number, this number, exclude this one, don't include that, don't forget to add this, and came up with what the valuations were based on that. So then we provided a cover letter with the sheet, but I don't know what the appraiser contractor, how they looked at those numbers differently than we did. So, yeah, our conversation after grievance was between the contractor and I, and he, I thought he said Christie specifically, but he said he spoke to somebody, he still didn't understand what those miscellaneous looks like. Which I did talk to him about, and we did discuss potentially eliminating the social services line, which is actually a very small amount, which I have no qualms with, but even recalculating with those figures, which I actually have as well, it's still a huge significant difference in the evaluation. Okay, then I think we should probably get Clary from somebody at the tax department, I mean, between the three of us, I think we can figure out what's in all, but what's not, and then save everybody the aggravation. So Kim has made a motion to suspend this here and come back, is there a second to that? No second, ma'am. And is there any other discussion, Donna, I don't think you like that, but is there any discussion about Kim's motion? Right, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. Kim, can I comment after the fact? Sure. I apologize in a way, because I don't, you know, I think what I have to do with the conversation is explain these six things are included and this is excluded. And I don't know whether I have to literally circle every number on the page of the audit to and which I did in advance in addition to including the entire audit or take the, or in the cover letter explain each single cost as indicated on the, I obviously there must, there's a, I've never had to go through like this much detail in the past.  Sure, I get what you're saying. And what I would say is that we can't tell you how to present your case because the taxpayer has the room, but you can see from the conversation how people are really, I totally guess. And it's not an uncomplicated thing. As I said, I've been doing this for a while and it's, you're learning things every time you do it. My apologies. And this is our only, no, it's a case for tonight. So we'll recess. We're in recess at $6.58.


Number five the inconsistency avoidance tendency Charlie says The brain of man conserves programming space by being reluctant to change Hard to break habits the chains of habits are too light to be felt before they become too strong to be broken I'm sure you have all Experienced something like this or familiar with the concepts of habits being hard to break For example, let's say you have the habit of smoking it starts off as A small habit you can control you can quit whenever you want but after a while The small habit Turns into something completely different. It's now a burden. It's now something. That's actually Incredibly difficult to overcome This is just how habits form. This is because of the inconsistency avoidance tendency. The habit has now Become a part of us. It's become a part of our Identity of how we picture ourselves. We are one with this particular characteristic Charlie also says it's much easier to prevent a habit than to change it Going along with the smoking analogy If you've never smoked before It's a piece of cake to never start the temptation to start will never be as strong as The problems that arise from trying to quit trying to break the habit. This is just human nature It's same with cocaine if you've never done cocaine You don't really have That much of a push do it if you know what I'm saying Now Charlie says The human mind does not like change whether it is for our reputation or identity to commitments or To our accepted roles and civilizations This is why generally People stay in the same jobs. They don't like change. They become comfortable with where they are Once again, their job becomes a sense of that identity So when fathers lose their job That's why they sometimes get depressed because it feels like they've lost a sense of themselves. They've become Connected with the job Now Charlie says the tendency could have been made to facilitate faster decision-making capacities this along with the doubt Tendency that we went over in the last video. It also could be Formed in order to keep the status quo within groups back in the primal era when everybody had set Tasks everybody had set things they were meant to do If you were the alpha male and you were the leader and you're the skills to do that That will be your position in the group. If you were a gatherer hunter gatherer you would Help find the meat for the group and food and produce Or if you were just a mother of you stay home if one person decided to change The formation of the group they start becoming they start believing that they're deserving to be a leader When they don't have a particular skills, of course, there's going to be some problems in the group there's going to be some tabulations and This is not good for survival. You can't have a group fighting amongst itself because of the needs of individuals when they need to be united as one to fend off the enemies and Animals and what have you so this could be one reason why we have this habit in our brain Set in stone where we don't like change. We like things the way they are Because things that are familiar to us are safe things are not familiar are not safe It's kind of like the biological concept of homeostasis when you know things always regulate back to a stable level they always go back to Equilibrium as the same with the group and that's the same with the human mind. It doesn't like big changes They don't research to show that people that win the lotto that win money That have not developed good money saving habits or entrepreneurships generally lose all their money Within the first two or three years. They blow it all and they go back to where they were This is all a factor of this tendency Their mind cannot comprehend the new reality.  So Just be wary of that in your personal development goals it not only are you Impulsively making decisions through the Dad of Wednesday and see you're also sticking with those decisions and not Think of anything else do they become part of your identity That's why people generally when they form mental habits.  You're gonna carry the same views the same values They might change a bit but not dramatically It takes a lot of work on yourself to change your views and to change your perspective That's why people that are failures remain failures and people that success just keep home becoming bigger and greater successes They build the same momentum that comes with it comes with the territory and this is why it's increasingly difficult for the poor middle-class to Become wealthy because of the habits they have because their minds as they have and Our biology which does not like us changing So it takes great willpower at great levels of consciousness to be able to change yourself To know that you don't want to change yourself, but it's for the best and to proceed and do it anyway this is why We have the term You know sheeps and wolf wolf amongst sheep only a certain few amount of people in this world are willing to take it willing to go for theirs and Do whatever it takes while the rest are willing to settle for what they have been given They're willing to become sheep To follow the herd and to not change themselves because of this tendency Now Charlie gives an example of Ben Franklin Now Ben Franklin when he was on his rise and wanted the approval of very important people he would get them to Do small tasks for him small mundane tasks such as grabbing a book for him That's like you go into your boss and asking your boss to grab your book or something generally these people comply in Need to not look rude, but because they're doing these things Their mind rationalizes that they must admire Ben Franklin for themselves to be doing these things to be consistent with his tendency So this is how he was able to get a bunch of people to admire him By making them do things that they normally wouldn't do that out of their nature So our mind generally rationalizes What we do if we do something it tries to come up with explanation to justify our actions Now this tendency is also interesting in the case of this genius. I read about a while back apparently during high school and primary school. He was actually considered somewhat mentally retarded or Not gifted at all So during his childhood, he was always told that he was not smart and that he was not gonna make So he decided to enroll for the army This guy enrolled for the army and during the army they have these tests It's kind of like an IQ test, but it's not exactly that. It's the one with the patterns and what not for God's code and he did that test and he Destroyed it. He matched to get a really high score and The army said we haven't had a score like this ever. You are actually a genius So this shift is reality now Because he's been given permission to reach his potential he now Does things at high capacity he he's solving math problems. He's coming up with these theoretical physics theories quantum mechanics theories and whatnot Just because he's been given permission His reality has changed. It's all because of this one tendency So you need to be very careful in what you're gonna allow into your mind Because your brain wants to stay the same don't let bad things or discouraging ideas enter your mind because you will start believing that it's part of you when it's not The opposite is true if you let empowering things into your mind things that are going to elevate your consciousness and Make you get what you deserve. You will get what you deserve because you will conform to that reality Anyway, I hope you guys enjoy that. That's the inconsistency avoidance tendency. Peace


So now we have enough information to look at the motion of particles in magnetic fields. And we're going to start by looking at our equation for the magnetic force, which we can express either as QVB sine theta or QV cross B if we're using the vector cross product notation. But regardless of which equation we use here, what we see is that the direction is always perpendicular to the velocity and the magnetic field. So let's look at an example of what's going to happen then. I'm going to have a uniform magnetic field pointed into the screen. That's where I've got all my little X's showing the back sides of the arrows. I'm going to take a positive charge particle and shoot it over towards the left for its velocity. Well, if you do your right hand rule on this, what you see is that the force is actually downward for this case. And that means that as the particle is moving, it's not going to go straight left, but it's actually going to be deflected downwards just a little bit. Well, now at this point, because it's got a velocity moving down and to the left, that also changes my force to be down and to the right. So as it's deflected, it's going to continue to move sort of along an arc. I can keep using my right hand rule at different points around the circle, but what becomes really obvious is very quickly is that I'm going to end up with circular motion as I go around here, where the force is always pointing in towards the center. Now I did this right hand rule using a positive charge. If I had a negative charge like an electron, it would still have circular motion, but it would circulate in the opposite direction. So to summarize, if I start out with a velocity which is perpendicular to the magnetic field, I have a particle which follows a circular path. And electrons and protons are both going to follow circular paths, positive and negative charges, but they're going to circle in opposite directions. And you'll be able to use your right hand rule for any particular case to figure out which way it should go, clockwise or counterclockwise. If I start off with a velocity which is partially along the field and partially perpendicular, I end up getting a helical path. In other words, it's going to spiral along the magnetic fields and around the magnetic fields at the same time. So it looks something like this. Now coming back to our magnetic force equation, I've got a perpendicular force. Well, from what we've studied in Physics 1, when I have a perpendicular force, that means I've got a centripetal force. It's causing circular motion. Our equation for centripetal force from last semester was mv squared over r. And our equation for the magnetic force from this semester is qvb sin theta. Now remember what we talked about, though. I could take that v sin theta and represent that as the perpendicular part of the velocity. In the same way for my centripetal force, I want to make sure that I'm talking about the perpendicular component of the velocity there as well as I'm going around the circle. So since both of these are forces, if I have a situation where the only force causing that circular motion is the magnetic field, then I can equate those two forces. And if I do just a little bit of algebra to rearrange these terms, I could solve it for the radius of that circle. And what I see is the radius of that circle depends on the mass and charge, but also on the velocity and the magnetic field. We'll use this equation in several problems. So that gives us an overview of the motion of free particles in uniform magnetic fields.