So, to start with the presentation, just to give you an idea of the agenda, it will be me at the beginning talking about the European Right to Repair campaign. And then we will have two members that will present two interesting national policies that are happening at national level, respectively it's the French Reparability Index and the Repair Bouter which is happening in Austria. So to start about the European Right to Repair campaign, the European Right to Repair campaign was launched in 2019 during Fixfest in Berlin and at the beginning it was made of just five core steering group members who had already campaigned for in favour of Reparability. During Fixfest it was the real launch of the campaign and that's where most members were recruited. Today we are over 100 members from 21 countries and we're trying to push institutions for Right to Repair. And if you listened to the previous presentation that was done by Matthew, he was talking about his Repair project that he's giving in refugee camps in Uganda. We had someone online commenting that it's really unfair how anti-repair practices that are pushed by companies to enable or to push people that do have a lot of resources and money to buy more and more and more, they really suck for people that do not have resources and do not have money and do not have access to this obscene over consumption either. So in a way I really hope that our efforts as Right to Repair campaign in Europe will be able to also help all the people that struggle with short lived devices all over the world actually. I know it's a huge ambition but we try to be ambitious. So to give you an idea of the members of the campaign because I know that some organisations that are attending Fixfest are a bit interested in the campaign and maybe in joining the campaign. We are a very diverse group of organisation. We have some environmental organisations. We have several charities that are pushing reparability in different countries such as Rundatisch Reparatur in Germany, the Restart project that you heard about before in the UK and also Repair and Share in Belgium. We also have several companies such as Backmarket. It's an online market of refurbished products and I Fixit which is a company that sells spare parts and provides free, wiki-like repair manuals. And yesterday it was brought to my attention that we're even more diverse than that and we even have trade unions. So we're a very diverse group of organisation. The starting point is that everyone wants repair. In Europe we have the possibility to measure that with the Eurobarometer which is a survey that has shown again and again that a vast majority of people do want repair. So what's happening at EU level on paper, lots of things are happening because repair is supposed to be part of the European plan to achieve circular economy by 2050 which is part of the bigger European Green Deal. But as we know it's very very often too little too late and not enough resources are put into the development of these policies and there is industry pushback. So one example that I like to talk about is the Universal Charger that was very celebrated as a great win for repair. By autumn 2024, USB Type C will be the common charging port for all mobile phones, tablets and cameras in the EU and this will celebrate it in the media and everywhere and rightfully so in a way. But is it such a big win? If you think that the first memorandum of understanding about this was in 2009. So 13 years ago we have been talking about this for 13 years and for laptops we will have to wait even more because it will not be 2024, we will have to wait for 40 additional months. This is an example that shows you that things are evolving very slowly and there is great industry pushback. So what do we actually want? What is the right to repair campaign advocating for? Three pillars mainly. Good design, fair access and informed consumers. When it comes to good design, anyone who has tried to repair something knows that it's very important that things are easy to disassemble, that they are even possible to disassemble them and there are not hidden security screws that things are not glued together or soldered together. And how we are trying to tackle this in EU legislation is basically with eco design legislation which is supposed to regulate many things and among these also the repairability aspect of design. Eco design legislation is evolving but it is evolving extremely slowly and if you look at the scope what products are currently covered, there are very little products that are covered. So this is evolving very, very slowly and we have many examples of this. For instance this year we have been waiting for the smartphones and tablets proposal for many, many months. It was delayed, delayed, delayed and when it finally came out the ambition of the eco design proposal for smartphone and tablets was really not up to scratch and not even aligned with European climate targets. If you are interested in that, I have put up some apologies for the online participants. I have put up some posters there where you can, it's their infographics but you can also find them online of course on our website, our reaction to this proposal for instance. The second pillar is fair access which means in order for repair to become mainstream everyone needs to have fair access to repair information and spare parts and this is definitely not the case today. And what we can see at EU level is that EU legislation is evolving in this sense but it is also creating very differentiated categories of users that have different types of access to repair information and spare parts. For instance if you are a professional repairer it makes a difference whether you are authorized or not authorized by manufacturers. If you are an end user or a little bit of an informal repairer you have less access to things and we really don't think this makes any sense because we want repair to be mainstream and to be very accessible and we are trying to push for that. When it comes to informed consumer, informed consumers on repairability one very useful instrument could be the Repairability Index which is something that we will talk about extensively because we have a speaker that will talk about the French Repairability Index that you might have heard of that is already in place in France. What's happening at EU level? This week me and my colleagues have been going a bit crazy because we were responding to the commission who has published a proposal for Repairability Index for smartphones and tablets. Are we happy about it? Very mixed feelings because we are happy that Repairability Index is even being discussed but does it make sense to have Repairability Index if we are not considering spare parts prices as a criterion within the Repairability Index? We know that the price of repair is a very important factor in the decision whether consumers are going to repair their device or replace it. So we really really need to take this into consideration and this is not the case today. But we will hear more about that later. So I'm just going to give you a takeaway. Regulation at EU level is really too slow. It's evolving but it's evolving too too slow and e-waste is growing very fast as we know. It is anticipated to double by 2050 which is very very problematic and we would like to stress that when we talk about e-waste we don't mean the discarded phones and tablets that we might have in our drawers. We mean especially the enormous amounts of waste that are produced during the manufacturing phase of these devices that the consumer don't see. So this is what we mean. I will be around all weekend. So if you have any questions about the Right to Repair Campaign feel very free to come to me. If you're interested in joining, if you're if you know of organizations that are interested in joining, I would be very very happy to have a conversation. There are speakers over there in case you're interested. And we will now hear from Markus Piringa from Austria who is going to tell us about repair vouchers that have been developed in Austria. Thank you. Hi everybody. I'm very happy to be here and to share some information and some insights about the repair funding in Austria or the repair subsidy in Austria. To start, maybe you know we have a national funding system now, but it is not before that there have been several federal states who already implemented funding or subsidies in Austria. This we in Austria, we have all in all nine federal states. So six of them have had a program before and also the city of Graz, which is which is not a federal state, also had implemented a funding system. And they all stopped at 2022 because a national voucher system got in place. I will talk a little bit about three different systems because they are different in a way. The first example is one of a federal state. I would call it the first generation of repair funding. I took up Austria as an example because there is a little bit of data how it worked. So the system worked that repair of large and small household electrical appliances are funded up to 50% of the repair costs and up to a maximum of 100 euros of each repair. So if your repair bill is 100 euro, you get 50 euro. If it's 200 euro, you get 100 euro. But if it's 500 euro, you also just get 100 euro. The repair must be carried out by an authorized business licensed listed in the upper Austrian repair guide. So we have in different federal states, we have repair guides there to get into this repair guide. It is checked if you have the allowance or if you are allowed to repair the stuff which is funded. And in this model the customer in first place has to pay the full price of the bill and gets the funding afterwards. So after having paid the price, the customer has to submit a completed application form in the time of four weeks after the repair has been carried out to get the funding. And the information is checked by the authority and then after approval, the customer gets the money back. So it is possible that not all criteria are met. And in this case, the customer doesn't get the money back. And in upper Austria it was about 9% of the cases that the customers applied for the money but they didn't get it because they didn't meet the criteria. As I said in the beginning, there are some numbers. So there was a bachelor's thesis on the upper Austrian system. And so some of the findings is that the average funding amount was 96 euros. 40% of the customers stated that they would not have had the repair carried out without receiving the subsidy. So it really makes a difference. So there are more repairs carried out. And the next number indicates this, that 38% of the companies surveyed noticed an increase of the numbers of repairs and 42 noticed a slight increase. So the number of repairs went up. And the question is, what happens when the subsidies stop? In this case, 26 of the companies have noticed a drop of repairs after the subsidies stop. So this indicates that it is a decrease afterwards but it makes a difference before and after because people are maybe, they repaired for the first time and so they got into the mood of repairing more. This is just about what kinds of repairs have been carried out, what appliances. So the big blue one is smartphones, then coffee machines, 18% washing machines and dishwashers. So these were the products which were repaired most often with the subsidy. The next example is an example of Vienna. This started in 2020 and in blue, there are the differences to the uphouse gym system. So in Vienna, all kinds of devices were repaired, which were covered by the repair network in Vienna. The repair network, which I'm also coordinating, is a platform of about 250 repair companies and they repair almost everything, so also furniture, textiles, whatsoever. And so the voucher system in Vienna was not only focused on electronic goods or electric devices. The same was that up to 50% of the costs were covered and it's up to 100 euros. In the difference to the upper Austrian system, also cost estimates were covered up to 45 euro because it's also a barrier for people to get things repaired, just to pay money, just to get to know if the thing is repairable or not. And so this was in the Vienna system, also the cost estimates were covered. And another difference is after the repair has been completed, a new repair voucher can be requested and the other system in upper Austria is just once in a year that you can get the funding. And the repair must be carried out by an authorized business listened in the repair network Vienna. The repair network Vienna is a bit different to the repair guides we have in other federal states because it also has a quality management and I can talk about this more in the session tomorrow at two o'clock when we talk about repair networks. So this was the first voucher system. The first in upper Austria or in other federal states was no voucher system because the person had to apply after already paying. And so in this case, the repair shop had to sign a contract to the city of Vienna to be able to receive the vouchers. And the customer, for the customer it's easier because he just has to get the voucher, he goes to the repair shop and immediately when he pays the costs, the voucher is subtracted. So he pays less money from the beginning. And then the business, the repair business has to hand out or submit the voucher to the authority and then gets the money from the authority. So the money goes not to the customer, the money goes to the repair business. And in Vienna it was possible to get the payment within two weeks because this is a big thing. If this is a subsidy and the company has to wait long to get it back, it's a problem for the liquidity so that he can still pay his bills because he's waiting for a lot of money. And here's just also some numbers. The average funding was close to the one in upper Austria, it was 70 euros. And the biggest part was the repair of mobile phones, computers, printers, etc. And the second was electrical household appliances. And then we have also the non-electrical goods like bicycles, furnitures, windows, interior design, plumbing and electrical installations and other repair services such as shoes, textiles, bags and so on. Now I switch to the Austrian wide repair bonus, which started in April. It's very much based on the Viennese system, it's also a voucher system, but it has differences. So it's only focused on the repair of electrical appliances again. So also e-bikes and so are covered, but for example no normal bikes without e-bikes because it's just electrical systems. It's again 50% of the costs which are funded and this time it's up to a maximum of 200 euros. And the cost estimates are also covered but only up to 50% and up to 30 euro. And also the same as the Viennese system, a new voucher can be downloaded after the first repair is completed. And also the repair business must be listed and this time at the list of the national repair bonus. So the big thing about the national voucher system is there is a lot of money in it. So we have 130 million euros, which is out of the, it's EU money actually, it's coming from the COVID Resurrection I think fund, it's called Recovery, the COVID Recovery Fund and up to date, so this is the number from the 26th of April, 143,000 vouchers have been redeemed and there are up to 2,500 companies taking part in the system and 9 million euros were paid out. I think I skipped the next one because it's also about how many products are repaired, but it's also, smartphones is a very big issue in repairing. I didn't make a slide about the conclusions, I just want to talk about them briefly. So far as we have data, we can say that a subsidy or a voucher system for repair is working, that you have more repair and it's overcoming the barrier of the price because everybody knows as repair is quite expensive compared to new products, it's a big barrier and it's very good method to lower this barrier. Also what I heard from the repair companies I'm in contact with is that the consumers tend to have higher quality repair, so if you have more expensive spare parts or less expensive spare parts with the subsidy, people tend to have a higher quality repair. So it's a good tool to foster the repair of after warranty repairs by professional businesses. But to really get into a repair society or repair economy, we need a lot of measures, so then a lot of screws have to be driven, this is EU policy, this is the cost factor, but it is also like training and education and so we also need a much informal education and therefore it's also very important to have initiatives like repair initiatives and all together with all these tools together I think we can change the system. Thank you. Thank you very much Marcus. I think we were all eager to know more about the Austrian system. I wonder whether at this stage there are already some questions for the Austrian system. I saw a few here, I wonder whether I should repeat them in the mic for the live streamers. So you mentioned that in order to qualify for the system, repairers had to demonstrate that they were competent to repair electrical goods, you did not mention that they had to also prove that they had liability insurance to do so. I'm asking this question because in the eco design requirements for household appliances and also the ones upcoming for smartphones, there's a second requirement that repairers should also demonstrate that they have liability insurance. So I was wondering if you could comment on that and if you find that a relevant requirement. I have to admit that I'm not sure what liability insurance is about. So the repairer has to demonstrate that he has contracted insurance that would pay the customer in case any damage would ensue from a faulty repair. As far as I can say, I believe that all the companies which have the legal permission to repair in Austria also have this kind of insurance because they are also listed at the Chamber of Commerce. Yes, thank you very much. Do you think there's an appetite to extend these vouchers to self-repair kits? This is a thing that manufacturers are now providing a lot more access to, user repair. We'd love to see that included, but do you think that there's political will for that being included? So the question is if it is possible to expand it to self-repair. So it would mean that it's funding the spare part costs because you don't have costs of the repair as such. For me, it's not easy to answer this question. I think it could be challenging to make sure that it is not misused because maybe I just buy a spare part and then I get the funding and then I resell the spare part again. So this would be quite challenging, I think. Thank you. Just to come back to your question, Thomas, because it's something I've heard when I was working at 3Us that in Austria there was an agreement between insurance company and repair cafes there so that they could benefit from liability insurance. And I wanted to know if you had more details on that or at least just as a point of information that there exist systems where it's possible for liability insurance or for repair cafes to benefit from liability insurance. And I think it was based on the fact that actually they are not commercial repairers. So the status is not really the same as for commercial repairers where actually you need liability because you are leaving out of repairing stuff. But if you do that voluntarily, you shouldn't be required to pay the same amount as a commercial repair which makes sense. But if you have more details on that, that would be interesting. Yes, there is insurance for repair cafes in Austria and so far it's for free. As we know that there is very little damage really noticed from repair cafes, I don't know if it will stay this way. So this is just like a prototyping. It just exists for one year, the insurance system. If this is possible because of this insurance to be part of a funding system or to be part of a national register or so, it has to be discussed. I don't know. Thank you. I was curious about your process in setting the exact amount of the subsidy in the sense of you had these experiences in the city of Vienna and other cities. Did you base, for example, this final amount of 250% of the price, did you base it on a certain research? How did you connect it eventually and would you see a relationship between the prices you've set of the subsidy and the type of repairs which were eventually happening in the most smart ones in this country? I was not part of the process when the first subsidy started with the 100 euro and then I think people sorted out, okay, it's working with 100 euro and that's what I believe. So I don't think that there is like scientific basis of the numbers. Yeah, I thought that was a very interesting question whether that price guides the repair. I wonder about the risk of the system being abused. I saw in the early slide that nearly one in ten got rejected and I wonder if that was just they didn't do the process right or there were suspicions that they were abusing it and I got second part. I can imagine if 50% of some repairs, subsidized somebody might double the charge of the repair and is that a risk that happened or how do you mitigate that? These are all good questions which I can't answer, especially the ones if the prices go up or so. We probably have the data, we are collecting the data now and it can be looked at but so far as the national system is just starting in April, we don't have the evaluation data but the data is here, also the data of the Vinnie system is here so I think maybe in one or two years we can answer a lot of those questions. The abuse is a problem but as far as I can see the Austrian government is very good looking at it because afterwards the EU will control the system so as it's EU money and I don't know if you ever had an EU project and you handed in your calculations in the end or they are really looking at it and so Austria is really very looking at it that there is no misuse but it's not easy, so the administration needs a lot of resources also from the administration. Also the first system, I mean you have a funding of 100 euro and you need a person to really look of the receipts and if everything is correct so it's a rather low amount of funding and a rather high administrative burden. Thank you for your presentation, I just had two questions, one about do you know if there's any kind of similar program being rolled out in any other EU countries? And second question is about is there a requirement for a warranty or guarantee of repaid products after they've been repaid by their professional apparatus? With the first question as far as I know in Germany there is a federal state who started with, I don't know which one do you know, Thüringen, thank you, yeah so in Thüringen and Germany there is a similar system that has started, I don't know of any other region in Sweden, so just for the one who streams they say that Munich and other cities in Germany also start and France is starting, yeah but it's so it hasn't started already, yeah discussions I think are going on in several countries but yeah they didn't start so far. And the second question was about guarantees, it's just the same as every repair, so I think there is a guarantee for one year if you repair something for the repaired parts and for the repair, so if something else breaks from the same product it's not covered but as far as I know it's not different if it's funded or not. Okay and probably this is going to be the last question, I was wondering you presented two kind of different schemes, one that had more of an active role from the repairer and the other one from the consumer and in terms of how widely adapted there were or how efficient or fluent in their kind of introduction, which one would you consider to be kind of more reliable or better, if that's... It's a difficult question because I don't have really the data, so it's just a feeling. From my point of view for the consumer, if you want to have the best effect it's the voucher system because it's much easier for the consumer, but the burden of the administration of the voucher system is more on the business also, so you have to have a really good administration so that the business doesn't have a bad effect because of this system and yeah I think it very much depends on how you design it and it's also at the VINI system and at the Austrian system you need in the first weeks and maybe in the first months you are still learning, so it's... Okay, thank you very much Markus, thank you for all the questions. I see we have more questions, but I also really would like to hear from the French repair index and I invite and encourage everyone to go and talk to Markus Piringa, they are both called Markus, that's why I'm specifying, the Austrian Markus because this conversation is super important, so over lunch let's talk more about these schemes and let's now welcome Markus Bergmann who is going to talk about the French Repairability Index. Everybody, yeah my name is Markus Bergmann, I'm actually a PhD student, but I was collaborating with HOP, a French association who's working against planned obsolescence and together we wrote a report about the French Repairability Index. Actually, HOP was invited but they couldn't make it today so they asked me to be here. Okay, so I would like to divide this presentation in two parts broadly, first I would like to present the index itself, what this is about and then talk a little bit about the findings of our report. So as you know there's a problem of supply and demand, consumers don't really are able to distinguish between more and less reputable products and also consumers are not really committed to produce eco-friendly products. So then the story of the Repairability Index goes back to 2018 where it was proposed as a measure in the roadmap for circular economy and the idea was we had to create a mandatory display of simple information about how reputable a product is and here this initiative is also only relating to electronic products. The idea then is to yeah at the same time reorientate the consumer towards more reputable products, so that's to change the consumer behavior and at the same time you have to increase a little bit the pressure towards the manufacturers. So this is what the Repairability Index looks like, it has to be displayed online and offline, it's a score from 1 to 10, 10 is the most reputable and you also find a small color code next to it. It's part of the French law which was introduced in February 2020 and it stipulates that the producer, so the manufacturer of the product has to calculate the score and then also transmit it to the seller and the seller on the other hand has to display the score and also provide the details or the subcategories of the index to the consumer if they ask about it. You can also see on this slide here the different product categories that are concerned, so there was a first rollout concerning five product categories, lawnmowers, smartphones, laptops, dishwashers and TVs and then it was further extended to five other categories. A little background information on how the index was actually constructed, it was quite interesting because it is a mandatory index meaning top-down approach but at the same time many different stakeholders were invited to create the methodology of the index, how to calculate it. Among others I think it was there, hello again Thomas and manufacturers were invited, NGOs, retailers, many many different stakeholders from the repair sector. This was very important for many reasons that we will talk about later. So what is the index actually? Let's take a zoom in, there are different criteria, five criteria that you can see on the left side of the slide. So the first criterion is the repair information. Do I have the manual which shows how I can disassemble and reassemble my product for instance? Is the product easy or difficult to disassemble? Do I have the spare parts, the price of the spare parts and then a fifth criterion which is product specific? So for instance this is an example of the smartphone index and there we have also software related issues. Interesting to know about the index is that there are different repair routes considered. What do I mean by that? Well you know you can repair a device either yourself, you can go to your manufacturer, you can go to a professional authorized repair or an independent repair. All those different repair routes were considered to a certain extent in the index and this is also thanks to this multi-stakeholder approach you can imagine that if there were only manufacturers sitting on the table we wouldn't have the self-repair column for instance. As it is a mandatory index there are some sanctions meaning that there will be official controls starting in 2022. The index was introduced in 2021 so the first year was kind of a transition giving more time to the manufacturers. So let me come to the second part through the actual report that I wrote with Hop together. What is it that we wanted to do? We wanted to look at the overall deployment of the index after 11 or 12 months. We wanted to look at the consumers, do they understand what the index is about, do they use it, is it useful for them and also we wanted to look into detail into some scores that have been calculated and displayed by the manufacturers to look at are they complying with all the instructions or maybe abusing. How did we do it? We collected about 2000 indices and made some statistical analysis. We did an online survey interrogating over 1200 potential consumers. We interviewed people from the repair sector and then we collaborated with Fnaktarty to actually take some products, disassemble them etc and calculate the score by ourselves. So here are the results for the first part, the statistical analysis. Two points that I want to make clear. You can see here the scores available on the market after 11 months more or less for each of the five categories. You can see that there are not many scores below five and you can see that the distribution of the scores are not homogenic. They were a little bit scoot to the right, a little bit scoot towards better scores. This raises a couple of questions. Was the index correctly constructed where the power balances equal in the construction? Is the index improvable and most importantly, is the index discriminatory of different scores? You can imagine if there are only good scores on the market, consumers can still not distinguish between more and less repairable products. Some key figures from the online survey with the potential consumers. Three points that I want to highlight. So the index is well known by the French population. They know what it's about, why we have the need for a repairable index. Then if you insist a little bit on the different criteria, how the index is actually composed, there are still some learning gaps. The second thing is that people that actually bought a new product that was concerned by the index didn't really see it oftentimes in 2021. So it wasn't that the index became mandatory in January 2021 and then already all products had an index. Only 28% of the consumers who were buying a product actually saw the index, either online or in the store. Nevertheless, a good thing to mention is that if they bought and saw the index, then it was useful for them. Over 3%, 4%, over 35% actually said it was useful to make their purchase decision. Last part of our report was then to zoom into certain scores. We looked into six different product scores, smartphones and some TVs, for instance. These are the findings to sum them up. From six products that we counter-exploitized, we found lower scores for five out of six products. Only for one product, this was the ASA laptop. We found basically the same score. The other scores were too high, according to us. Conclusion for us was official controls are necessary. We esteemed that some of the manufacturers overestimated the reparability of their products. Last important finding was also during this report that there is a certain weakness, according to us, according to HOP of the index, which is the compensation effect, what we call it. What do I mean by that? Well, you can find a product with a very good score, an overall score of 7.3%. For instance, here in the example, you will get a green logo. So consumer instantly thinks everything is fine. I can repair my product. But in certain key criteria, such as, for instance, the availability of spare parts, you have a very, very low score. In reality, what is going to happen, you can have access to the manual. Maybe the spare parts are also not very expensive, but they are not available. In the end, it's not repairable. So HOP and myself in the report, we proposed some measures to address this problem. Key takeaways from the Reparability Index in France for us are the Reparability Index is a very good initiative to foster repair, both on the national, but also on the supranational level. I think for the repair score on the European level, for instance, this was a very important driver to accelerate the process, was also important to show it is possible to measure repairability, which is not so straightforward as it sounds. And it's a very good initiative, which is welcomed by the consumers. Nevertheless, there are improvement points for the index. For instance, there are transparency issues. What do I mean by that? There's not one place where you can go to and find all the repairability scores. And you can imagine that when you buy a product, maybe one, two, three years later, there is a breakdown, you do not instantly find the repair score. So how do you want to hold responsible consumer afterwards? This is a problem. Also the detail of information that you have access to as a consumer can be improved according to the report. For instance, the manufacturer has to make a commitment in the repairability index for each spare part. For each spare part, for instance, they say, okay, this one will be available for seven years. This kind of detail of information you don't see as a consumer, which is also a problem if you want to hold responsible afterwards. Another point that can be improved is, as I said, the overall calculation of the final score to address this compensation effect, for instance. And in our interviews with people from the repair sector, we also learned that there are other repair barriers that are not addressed so far in the index, for instance, software issues such as the serialization of spare parts. And here the thing that I already said is controls, official controls are actually key for this repairable index to commit manufacturers and make sure that they are not abusing the initiative. So this was a brief overview of the French repairable index. Thank you very much. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Before we open the floor for questions, we just wanted to give a quick information that we will have more sessions on repairability indexes during FixFest. Thomas knows where and when. Yeah, so there will be a primarily Dutch speaking session, which will be the before last session tonight in the Hammer Room. So it will be primarily Dutch, but also open to English or French. And there will be a primarily French session tomorrow morning, but also open to Dutch and English, if you want. These sessions will be a little bit more interactive. So our ideas that you as a repair or activist can share any frustrations you have, any barriers, any problems that you encounter. And then we will reply by explaining to you whether this is dealt with in any political project or whether there's a policy tool addressing it, whether something is underway and if nothing is underway, how that is so that we sort of start from your concerns and explain what policy is doing on that level. Now to the questions for Marcus. I already see one here. Thank you. Just a question concerning the level of awareness of consumers. So you said that when they buy these products, only 27%, I think you said are aware that there is this logo. What do you think is the reason why they can't see it? Like is it too small? Is the way it's displayed or maybe they just don't care and they'll just get the price? What are the reasons you think they just ignore the majority, just ignore the label? So 28% of those who bought a product in 2021 only saw the index. This was also due to the recent introduction of the initiative. So and because there were no official controls, meaning even though the index was mandatory, there were no sanctions if manufacturers didn't display it. So this is the first main reason because there were so many products on the market without an index. As to the visibility of the score itself, it is well described in the French law how it has to be displayed next to the price. I showed you a picture here. So it has to be, the final score has to be as the same size of the price next to the price with the colored logo. So I think the visibility is there in the store and also online. Then if you want to look into further details into the subcategories, if you want to know, do I have the manual available? Do I have the spare parts? There it gets a little bit more tricky. There you have different ways, leeway for the manufacturers to display this kind of information and some ways, options that the manufacturers chose are more easily accessible than others. Thank you. I'm curious about the 27 interviews or something, the number of interviews that you did. In terms of repairers, what was the repairer's impression of the score and did it, what did they feel it was reflective of the actual repairability score and did it actually affect the number of devices being repaired? Were people more likely to have a device repaired if they see after they've bought it and it breaks and they see the score, did this affect the way that they chose to repair or not? So I think the repairers, they have a very specific position as to the French repairability index. Why is this so? First of all, I think they're happy that the index exists because it raises awareness of the repair sector itself. It can motivate people to repair more devices and accelerate their business in one way. On the other hand, and also they were also invited, they were part of the stakeholders constructing the index itself. So they were very happy to be part of this process and contribute to expertise, which was also very important regarding the statistics, for instance, that they could share with the public authorities, which go beyond the warranty period. Otherwise, we would have had a lot of statistics but only within the warranty period and things change afterwards. On the other hand, repairers will face situations where there will be a customer with a high repairability index and due to the compensation effect, in reality, the device might not be repairable. So then the consumer might reproach this to the repairer itself. Maybe he thinks that's due to his skills or network or whatever. So the relationship is not that straightforward for repairers and the index itself, I would say. Yeah, a following question. You said that companies are supposed to do a self-declaration right about the index and then the authorities kind of revise and approve or decline what they declare. But then are they kind of, do they have a penalty if they just like overestimate the repairability of their devices? Like in the research that you did and you had these differences, is there some way to actually kind of, I don't know, appeal them? Yeah, I showed it on the slide. I didn't mention it to be brief. There are penalties, sanctions in the law foreseen up to 15,000 euros per model. These are the sanctions in law specifically to the repairability initiative. Then there you have other laws that could be applied, other penalties more general related to misleading commercial behavior. And their dependencies are much higher. Nevertheless, one thing to keep in mind is that public authorities have limited resources. We will have to see in what kind of way they will conduct these controls. Are they only looking at is the index present or not? Or are they actually going to recalculate the score and look into it how it was actually? Are the scores reliable or not? So this has to be seen. Okay, thank you. Yeah, I have a question about the relationship between the price and the index for the consumer, the decision making when they buy a product. I am curious if it does increase the sales at the end like the consumer aware that this one can be repaired. Do they really adopt the product to be used at their home? Yeah, does it increase the sales? So is the price affected by the index? Is this the question? Yeah, my question is actually does the in like I'm just thinking like consumer price of point of view. If you want to buy a product, maybe price is also a very important decision criteria. And when they see the index, how that like play between these two, do they at the end decide on price more than the index? Or is it how you affect the decision making? Do you see any effect on that? So if I understand the question, well, if if I'm a consumer and I have to make a decision, do I consider more the price or more repairability index? Well, we did a small experiment about the intention to purchase devices. And we tried to include this decision. We, for instance, showed a high price with a high index, low price, low index and some variations of that. And our findings were that price plays a role, but it can be mediated by a higher score. So if you have a higher score, consumers are potentially more willing to pay a more expensive product. But this was an experiment about the intentions to buy. Another story might be actually doing or observing the actual behavior of consumers. And my question has largely been asked already by this lady here. But I wanted to ask more specifically about the validation of the score and is the is the cost of undertaking the validation paid by the business or is that paid by the government? So validation, you mean the the official controls? Yeah, the official controls. Do they pay for the validation when they submit the device to be sold in the market? No, so the the index is self declared is calculated by the manufacturer, submit it to the seller, the seller displays it. Okay. In this process, there will occur some costs. It depends on the experience of the of each player, but there's an estimation of 1000 euros per model. Okay. These costs are to be borne by the seller and by the manufacturer itself. Then there are official controls and the official controls are conducted by public authorities and public authorities will pay for this this process. Thank you. Thank you for for the presentation. I had two small questions. The first one was about the level of handymanship. Is there within the definition of the index? Is there any reference or dimension concerning the the ability of the repair person? Is it or DIYers or is it more for professional repairs? And is this if not, is this considered in maybe future versions or are you putting this in your work? And the second one was about the assessment of durability. So sometimes products may be more durable, but less repairable. How does that play in your assessments? Yeah, very good questions. The first one as to the skills of the people repairing. As I mentioned, there are different columns, different players, stakeholders considered in the index. So you have, if for instance, you have spare parts available for in-house manufacturers after state services.  You have also considered another in another column, repairs. Repairs include both authorized, so professional repairs, but also independent ones. And then you have another column for self repair for the consumers itself. So you have different levels of skills considered in the index, but it's not that to get a high score, you need more skills or anything like that. And the second part of the second question regarding the durability and how to measure that, this is an ongoing work in France. The French Repairability Index will transform into a durability index in 2024. It will integrate further dimensions. Repairability is one of them. To others, upgradability and the reliability. So how often do breakdowns occur? And updatability is, can I extend the functions of the device, either we are software or material extensions? But as to how exactly this is going to be measured, I don't know yet because it's not, it hasn't been decided yet. I would just like to add one comment to that question, because you mentioned specifically skills. And I think it's fair to say that the index at this point considers the support that is extended to certain types of repairs, but it does not actually consider the skills, which was your question, I think. More specifically, it addresses the design and the ease of this assembly only by the number of steps. So the score is determined by the number of steps required to change a certain component, but it does not evaluate the difficulty of any of these steps, which I think relates to your question. So if the index were further developed to better take into account skills, there would have to be a differentiation in scores, whether for instance you have to desolder a component or you just unscrew it or you snap it, but this is not in place at this point. I think yesterday there was brief mention of effects of the policy in terms of reaction of the companies as in publishing repair manuals in order to get a higher score. And I was just wondering if you have any more examples of companies anticipating legislative change and adapting their products or if you expect these kind of reactions from companies or what the situation is with that? So as I said, in this construction process of the index, many, many different stakeholders were involved and among them also manufacturers. So this shows that the index is affecting them in one way or another. They are interested in the initiative for lobbying reasons or also for learning reasons, right? As to the impact of the index itself, it's a little bit early, I would say to evaluate this. Nevertheless, some first indications are there. For instance, yeah, you mentioned the availability of manuals and we have seen that, for instance, among very big manufacturers, key players that this has improved for certain product categories such as smartphones. The index is also well communicated by those manufacturers on their websites dedicated websites have been created. Access has been made very easy for the consumers. But for instance, as to this design, I think this will take a little bit more time to to evaluate actually. My question concerns more the policy side or the campaigning side of this project. So now we're installing the national score in Belgium also gradually. We'll have the French example, we have other countries following this example. I'm expecting there is a little bit of difference between these legislations and I'm also wondering how this will interfere with the European initiative. So will we get different type of scores or how will they integrate? This is one of the key questions for the manufacturers always ask at every stakeholder meeting. General rule is that if there's something on a European level, this will supersede the national level. So if there is a repair score at the European level for smartphones, then there will be no more score on the national level. French repairability score for smartphones will soon disappear. Nevertheless, there is a durability score to be displayed in 2024 in France. The durability score contains the repairability score. Now is the question which repairability score will be contained? The European one or the French one? If so, is it be displayed in one final score or in two different scores? These are questions that are not answered so far. Yeah, to this point, maybe just a point of frustration from the European right to repair campaign. When we see industry pushback, it's a bit at the U level, it's a bit ridiculous because on one side they're going, they're complaining that the repairability indexes are going to be different in every country, but then they're making the EU index very, very weak. So it's a challenge and of course it would make more sense to have a repairability index that is more or less uniform, but then it needs to be strong and it cannot be the weak thingy that was proposed for smartphone and tablets, I would say. Any more questions? I think people are getting hungry. Maybe the last word. Do manufacturers get training in how to analyse repairability? Sorry, I didn't catch that. Do manufacturers get a training in how to implement the index and analyse their products? There are no official workshops from the public authorities. Nevertheless, there are workshops from independent private actors. So if you want, you can participate in something like that, but you have to pay for it. The index will be presented, that will be shown how to calculate it, some step forward. But then for everybody for free, there are some manual, an official manual explaining more in detail how to calculate each score, very extensive manual. Public authorities are also available, make themselves available for all the manufacturers, retailers that have questions. Exchanges are quite intense. So if you have questions, as an actor, you can reach out to different stakeholders. Then I would say thank you very much for both Marcus's and the participants. If you have any more questions, because these are key topics, so anything about the Rytweaver campaign, you know where to find me, I know that the Austrian Marcus will stay on for the rest of Fixfest, for the Austrian vouchers. And with regards to the other Marcus, will you stay on a little bit? Okay, so we have until tonight to go to him and ask him plenty of questions about the French repair index. Thank you very much for joining us, and I think we have to go get lunch before it's gone. Thank you.


Penguin Random House Audio presents Malibu Rising by Taylor Jenkins-Reed, read for you by Julia Whalen. Malibu catches fire. It is simply what Malibu does from time to time. Tornadoes take the flatlands of the Midwest, floods rise in the American South, hurricanes rage against the Gulf of Mexico, and California burns. The land caught fire time and again when it was inhabited by the Chumash in 500 BCE. It caught fire in the 1800s when Spanish colonizers claimed the area. It caught fire on December 4, 1903, when Frederick and May Ringe owned the stretch of land now called Malibu. The flames seized 30 miles of coast land and consumed their Victorian beach house. Malibu caught fire in 1917 and 1929, well after the first movie stars got there. It caught fire in 1956 and 1958 when the long borders and beach bunnies trickled to its shores. It caught fire in 1970 and 1978 after the hippies settled in its canyons. It caught fire in 1982, 1985, in 1993, 1996, in 2003, 2007, and 2018, and times in between. Because it is Malibu's nature to burn. At the city line of Malibu today stands a sign that reads Malibu 27 miles of scenic beauty. The long thin township, an area that hugs the slim coast for almost 30 miles, is made up of ocean and mountain, split by a two-lane throughway called the Pacific Coast Highway, or PCH. To the west of PCH is a long series of beaches cradling the crystal blue waves of the Pacific Ocean. In many areas along the coast, beach houses are crammed along the side of the highway competing for views narrow and tall. The coastline is jagged and rocky. The waves are brisk and clear. The air smells of fresh brine. Directly to the east of PCH lie the immense arid mountains. They dominate the skyline, sage green and umber, composed of desert shrubs and wild trees, brittle underbrush. This is dry land, a tinderbox, blessed and cursed with a breeze. The local Santa Ana winds speed through the mountains and valleys from the inland to the shore, hot and strong. Myth says they are agents of chaos and disorder, but what they really are is an accelerant.


This is an international phase three randomized study of autologous dendritic cell therapy plus standard treatment, which is synitinib versus synitinib alone for patients with advanced RCC. With regards to study background, HGSO03 is an autologous immunotherapy that's developed from a patient-specific total tumor RNA, which is subsequently pulsed on dendritic cells and it's designed to stimulate a patient-specific memory T cell response. Synitinib is obviously established as a first-line TKI with known anti-tumor activity and also some immunomodulatory effects. The study statistics were based on a median OS for unfavorable risk synchronous metastatic renal cell carcinoma survival in the range of 14.7 to 16.7 months in the targeted therapy era and phase two study data of HGSO03 plus synitinib and unfavorable risk metastatic renal cell carcinoma yielded a greater than 30-month median OS and one-third of the subjects in that study survived for longer than 48 months. So these data would suggest that there is a significant unmet need that persists in synchronous unfavorable risk metastatic renal cell carcinoma despite the advances of targeted therapies. This is the study design, basically patients who present with their primary tumor in place in metastatic disease, which can be measurable or unmeasurable, undergo a tumor collection phase. The tumor is evaluated to demonstrate the presence of clear cell histology. The patient is reevaluated to make sure that they make study entrance criteria. They are then randomized in a two-to-one fashion to either the vaccine arm versus the standard treatment arm. They then go on to start synitinib and after the first cycle of synitinib they are started on vaccine and the vaccine arm and followed over time with the primary endpoint being overall survival. It's an open-labeled design with no placebo control and the arm that does not get vaccine does not undergo leukophoresis. As I said, the primary endpoint is overall survival. All endpoints include PFS, response rate, immune response data, as well as safety. The trial is unrolling with active SPA agreement with the FDA. Bob Figlin and I are the global PIs for the study and there's a strong collaboration with the SUO CTC, primarily championed by Brian Lane in North America. The eligibility criteria, patients have to have newly diagnosed synchronous clear cell metastatic renal cell carcinoma and be a good candidate for cytoreductive nephrectomy. At the time of nephrectomy, autologous vaccine production requires a small piece of the tumor, which is dumped into RNA later. Patients can have measurable or non-measurable metastatic disease after nephrectomy because of the overall survival endpoint. They need to be a good candidate for targeted therapy, which would be synitinib therapy, at least primarily, although there is allowance for a therapeutic switch to other compatible TKIs or mTOR inhibitors in the case of toxicity or early progressive disease. Patients can have no underlying autoimmune disorder, no history of or known brain metastases, and no more than four baseline HEN risk factors. And obviously, because patients present with their primary tumor in place, they automatically already have one risk factor. Here's the current study status. Enrollment commenced early in 2013. There are currently 94 active global sites in the U.S., Canada, Israel, and Spain. Italy, the United Kingdom, and the Czech Republic sites will be activating in late 2013, and we expect to have 130 active sites anticipated by early 2014. We currently have greater than 150 patients who have been enrolled for the tumor collection phase of the study. The baseline demographics of these patients, meaning age is 58, the vast majority are male, the vast majority have locally advanced disease. 75% will be characterized as intermediate risk based on the HEN criteria. 25% will be characterized as poor risk. In terms of risk factors, 14% have only one risk factor. 61% have two, 14% have three, and 11% have four. One of the challenges that we've had in accruing patients' trial is the higher rate of non-clear cell histology, which was significantly higher than what was initially expected. We expected a rate of 10 to 15%, and currently the rate of non-clear cell histology, which would render patients ineligible, is 24%. Thank you very much for your attention.


Welcome everybody to another episode of the nonprofit show. We are thrilled that you are here We have a special guest today Jane Pfeiffer from field trip We're going to be talking about reaching your fundraising potential for those of you who joined us in the green room chatter This is really Amazing I almost wanted to say fortuitous, but that's not the right word But Jane is coming to us from Louisville as of this date. The state of Kentucky has been Visited by some terrible storms and there's been a tremendous loss of life more than three dozen people with still many missing President Biden went to visit Kentucky yesterday And so that you are our witnessing You know nonprofit professionals on the ground right now as we speak talking about something and so Fundraising is a big part of this fundraising Changes when we're in the center of a storm. No pun intended Jane So we're really excited to have you you know with us and and talk about this and maybe a more nuanced way than maybe We had thought when we booked you a couple weeks ago So again, if you don't know who I am or you don't remember who I am sometimes I don't remember who I am I've been away for a little bit. I'm Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy My trusty sidekick Jarrett Ransom the nonprofit nerd herself is not with us today. She'll be back tomorrow We want to make sure that we thank all of our presenting sponsors Many who have been with us since day one and we're kind of moving into our third year of this blue Blumerang American nonprofit Academy your part-time controller nonprofit nerd National University featuring fundraising Academy staffing boutique and nonprofit thought leader If you've missed any of our more than 600 episodes, you can find us in the archives on roku youtube vimeo And amazon fire tv and now we have all of our episodes in podcast forms So wherever you like to consume this content queue us up and you can take us with you Whatever you are doing. So we'd love to see you with us. Okay, jane. I've done my housekeeping Now I get to talk to you Jane Pfeiffer founder and president of field trip talk to me about how you got the name field trip Yeah, well, you know when you think about what we do So field trip focuses, you know our marketing and branding firm and we focus on nonprofits and helping them You know reduce their biggest expense You know that expense doesn't show up on a p&l or a balance sheet and it's the expense of idk's You know, Julia. Are you familiar with that term? I don't know if I do. Yeah You know, it's the I don't know you I don't know what you do. I don't know why it matters to me I don't know if you can help me And so in solving those problems. We realize that the answers Lie outside outside the board room outside the walls of our organization and in outside perspectives We help executive leaders, you know solve really three basic problems first the Relevance and the need for what they do has never been greater But the friction to get the work done Has never been stronger and then You know a lot of executives are just absolutely frustrated with constantly explaining what they do why they do it and why people should care And that takes time away from doing the mission And then finally there's this grand canyon size gap between the people that we help the beneficiaries that are in need And then the lifestyles the mindsets the thinking of the people who have the resources to support us in our work And so if the out if the answers lie by going outside and taking a field trip You know only then can you come back and really have an informed perspective and a fresh look At how you close that gap Um in all those needs between you know awareness and alignment and advocacy That's what creates that mission multiplier, and that's our ultimate goal Wow, I love it. I love everything you've said. I'm totally on board Because I do see us in our sector becoming We have such a heavy yoke of Doing our work and and serving those that we serve that it's really hard to get that thinking time And I love the concept of what you said the field trip When you go out you see and you learn and you witness something different and sometimes it's just a spark So super cool. I I'm like right right in there with you I really really am so one of the first things that I'm going to ask you about And and I really can't wait to hear what you have to say is You say the nonprofit business model must change First what do you see that model and how do you yeah? So I want to tell you what it isn't it's not saying nonprofits need to act like business for profit business because That just makes a lot of assumption But the model itself for nonprofits has to shift When you look at marketing and communications The abundance of nonprofits to think that that is an occasional Operational luxury that they get to have maybe a communications manager Or maybe they get a grant to do a website or we're going to take this exception this one year and you know advertise this or try and do something different to reach to our donors But in this capacity you have to look at marketing Is really the the biggest proactive investment you can make That will yield returns in all areas so it can impact utilization of your services Which would lead to fee generation Programming you know grants federal reimbursements And it can also work into your donors and your volunteers and your community partners Because if people don't know you understand you and believe that you can solve this problem There's no chance that they want to You know align and partner with you and For those people that aren't sitting at the table don't know us The only way to reach them is through advertising And yet I can feel the shoulders tense because well wait a minute That takes money away from the mission and I'm going to get dinged because our operational expenses Are high That is the truth But we have to get comfortable about how to shift marketing forward as an investment strategy And that's the business model and thinking that we're eager to change right and I love that you called that out because I think that this is one of those things that we see a lot That the stress is between the board And then management and the nonprofit management saying yeah, we need to do this. They understand that But then the board thinking oh, well, that's what you do in the for-profit world and that's that's excessive and you know That's not a good stewardship of our funds and it is just such a pervasive and negative thought um Talk to me about the difference between the organizations that you see Doing it well. I mean is there a sort of thing where you have to be like super great At marketing and really dominate it or is there is there kind of that place where you could start to begin that trajectory? Do you have a sense of where where nonprofits can lie in that? Yeah, you know, julia. It's it's really simple It's just being open to it Now you likely you know within your nonprofit organization because marketing is not that investment strategy Probably don't have the resources that inside, you know, or on your payroll That can help you think like that but just being open to how do we make this shift? And then finding someone that has that perspective and can show you examples of the implications Um, you know, we see this time and time and all we need is just that open mind and that commitment And then everything else can fall into place. Yes, there's a process You know, there's a lot of work to be done because we have to make sure the systems are in place We can't just spend the money and and spray and pray and hope everything ends in the right place But thinking about are we are we tracking numbers? Do we have a process where we're recording inquiries for our services? Do we we know what our, you know Competition looks like and how they're talking about similar services and how do we stand out? So but once you get that, you know homework done and then, you know, turn it on Not in a, you know, this is not a stage show where you show up on stage and advertise once in the curtain falls But, you know, gradually testing a strategy and then pulling or changing one or two levers at a time To see that the needle is moving in the right direction But if your board of directors says, okay, you got 90 days to see if this works, you know, save the money This is a this is a permanent shift in how we think So maybe the added should be instead of, you know, thinking like a business it should be thinking about, you know, marketing as a retailer would Because no, you know bricks and mortar advertiser would just open the doors and wait for people to come They know that marketing and advertising is a fixed cost It's a percentage of sales and this is it's just always done So that might be a closer comparison in how we need to think, you know, I really appreciate that you Layered in metrics in there and to say, look, we need to understand that there's going to be evaluation that there's going to be change And there's going to be nuance. I love that you said that Um before we move any further Not a lot of nonprofits can do this themselves. So yeah partner with somebody that can help them, right? I mean, is that what you're Yeah, and actually, you know, Julia, that was a painful lesson for me You know Coming into and focusing on nonprofits You know, I can tell you a client story where they made that bold investment They knew they wanted to support this particular program because it was being underutilized They had found the money to do it in a way that was, um, you know, could be continued and sustained And so we did our work and um, you know, I'll own it mistake made that we didn't think through Okay, you know, are you tracking the form submissions on the landing page? Are you tracking the phone calls? Are we even do you have your google page claimed like these very very essential things That should have been in place and assumption made Of course we do this thing and you know, so now our This includes really before we spend the first, you know, external dollar All right, here's going to be the flow of our donor or our beneficiaries And here's what their journey is going to be like and can we measure each step? And it's not always precise, but It's it's a direction and a path. So yes, that measurement matrix has to be in place I love that you I love that you owned up to that and I and I really love that Um, you point out it's not just a matter of writing those checks to the media outlets It's really about, you know, focusing on some things internally before you even get to that point Another big part of this which is, you know, a marketing issue. It's a mindset It's an approach. It's a lot of things. I can't wait to have you share with us How do you get the haves to care about the have nots? How does that work? Yeah, you know, that's a phrase that um, some people get really upset with But it does grab your attention and what we're really talking about Is the the gap in resources and You know, there are people in need, you know, we talked about eastern kentucky and the basic human needs that they have now from organizations that were Taking care of, you know, a number of people in that part of the state. We're talking about, you know, the appellation area And so now those resources are just stretched incredibly thin And the news event brings action But can it drive long term change in thinking?  So this is isolated Has that type of mindset they really Well, they'll never experience what that situation is and you know, thank you god I have not either but You know, taking the time to really strip away what we know in our own life experiences And just thinking about how difficult it would be to take a bus trip from one end of town to other or just get there To the place that might offer them shelter for the night You know, it's it's just not that simple and that that huge gap between the haves and the have nots is Is what we have to close not because we want them to become similar people But we want their minds to come together so that we're all on the same journey of lifting everyone up Right, you know, one of the things I advocate a lot It's very controversial in in board trainings that we do is to ask a board If they have ever engaged in the services that they provide and that means have they spent a night in the shelter? Have they you know um Cleaned the aisles of the auditorium for that for their you know, where they do their performances I don't think that should be controversial at all. I think that's a Brilliant idea. It's a I mean if you ever asked that question people would be like, oh But right, would you have a different attitude if you had to eat the food that you're serving? You would call it. Yeah Exactly. I mean a few weeks ago was sat in the cafeteria Of a place that is helping people who have been incarcerated And helping them, you know a reentry facility that is helping them find a way and just Sitting there and talking to anybody who came by but listening to the conversations and the things they were excited about And where there was tension Again, it's a field trip And I you know You have to expose yourself to that to really, you know start to minimize that gap You know, um, this question comes up a lot in our friday ask and answer segment that we do and that is um, we get questions from non-profits that say they want to go visit another non-profit Maybe in their community, maybe in their region Maybe on the other side of the country to learn what they're doing and what they're seeing And it just made me think of you know, the name of your business and the concept of field tripping Um, how do you what do you feel about that? Like how do you feel about that in terms of that that bigger picture? You know, we we have we've got this kind of wish list of ideas and we'd like to somehow figure out like How to make almost a product where yes, you can you know take a team of leaders And whether it's you know visit another non-profit or even you know Go to a commercial space or something that just maybe it's a dressing hunger, but in a completely different way You know, what could you learn by going to maybe a high-end kitchen about? I don't know. I'm grasping at straws But looking at a problem or just how we consume a meal in a completely different perspective Not because that's the goal, but because there is something there in this maybe, you know, four or five star experience That might be able to be applied to your you know, your Hunger non-profit. So how do we create those opportunities to really just shake things up? And I don't know how yet, but one day we'll get there Well, you know to your point, it's it's really um shifting mindset and and you you made this Wonderful statement in the very beginning. You have to open up your mind To the possibility and just rethinking things. Um, Yeah, it's very very interesting and and we talked about this earlier You know when you're so engaged in just trying to get through the day and serve who you're trying to serve it doesn't leave a lot of room for thought and and You know exploration of new ideas and and that's something we really suffer from in our sector. Don't you think? Oh, we get sucked into the tornado of activity and you know dealing with the crisis of the day and the things that need to do and the Bubonic plague of marketing is that nobody's you know pulling on our You know sleeves saying hey, you haven't come talk to me lately like you you should really come and and you know Send me a message. Tell me something new So therefore the the there's no demand or external forces So those tangible things or the areas that we're more comfortable with that's what gets our attention You know, we all get sucked into that. It's really hard to be you know on the business and not in the business You know Everything is difficult and then when you're faced with dealing with a somewhat Intangible area of your business that again chances are you don't have marketing leadership How would you expect it to get a lot of attention and resources? Right. Oh man, it's it's such a you bring up such an interesting thing and and and how we can temper the the tasks that we need to do With the bigger picture and the mission. Um, wow, it's a huge Piece of this but now I've got to ask you this We understand these these forces at work, but the reality is we have a donor experience We have a donor journey. How do we temper all of that? into You know meeting our fundraising goals Introducing ourselves to the community getting the community to engage in a sustainable way How does this look? Yeah, I wish I had a one sentence answer for that You know the way I would break that down We use this, you know triple a assessment when we're thinking about any audience So in this case, we're going to focus on donors and so there's three stages of a relationship that donors have with us It's awareness alignment and advocacy So, you know, those layers are stacked on top of each other and let's say you have incredible You know awareness in a particular area Um, but people just aren't taking action. They're not engaging so that alignment is off Then there are fewer people who can really become our cheerleaders and ambassadors And so where we often get sucked in is thinking I just need more people to be aware of us And so we're going to focus on this top layer But what we don't realize is that if we don't have the systems the thinking the messaging In place to to help people who become aware of us take action Then we're really just increasing our expenses And creating more awareness, but we're still stuck back in a low You know, if you want to call a conversion rate You know, but funnel and we really need it to be instead of a funnel a pipeline So that you know An awareness is you know, can we get it to be a one to two ratio for every two people that's aware of us? One person takes action For every you know two people that take action one person can be an advocate So sometimes the place to start is at the bottom of that funnel and making sure That it's easy to take somebody who has had an ongoing relation and turn them into an advocate Ask them give them the tools and the messaging And the means to go out and recruit for us because if we can improve that ratio Then yeah, we'll get to a point in time where all we need to do is turn on the funnel And and bring more people into that awareness, which is the easiest part But we we got to start in the right place and every organization's ratio or starting point is different Right. So I hear you saying I kind of look within first And not get sucked into that trap that we just need more more more, but really looking internally Now we don't have much time, but I can't wait to have you share your thoughts with us About this wonderful wonderful phrase and that our question I should say and that is are you the hero? Or the advisor What is what are you saying here? Yeah, so hero's journey in brand strategy is not you know a new concept It's a it's an approach to storytelling and branding But what I find in the nonprofit sector and really even in the you know for-profit business Is people often think of the organization itself as the hero and that's really tempting where we're in a space where we are doing Meaningful work. We are changing lives. We are lifting people up and so There is that you know hero moments and and that's part of our passion for the mission But if we're the hero, we're in the wrong position. We need to be the mentor We need to be the advisor We need to be the dumbledore To you know all the students out there and there's a couple ways you can look at this You know a lot of people will then recognize that the hero is actually the beneficiary is the people that we're helping and serving but That is true in a lot of um, you know social and health services But I will also argue that I believe the hero is actually the outcome Because you know a person who's recovering from addiction Yes, there is a story to tell there and we can tell a hero's story But that board member that I was talking about earlier that really doesn't understand why they're in that situation because they made bad choices So just stop making bad choices May have some compassion or empathy for that hero's story But what that likely you know long term business person Will understand more readily is the ripple effect of that that hero story, which is the outcome So this person is now clean and on the road to recovery Which means they can now have custody of their children Which means their children are consistently going to school. They have home They have food on their plate So they're learning and they are leaving, you know, the social services. So is that mother or father There's an economic impact. There's a you know talent pool impact This person is now, you know holding down a job So it's the not just the hero story of the rags to riches or the you know Poor impoverished person that is now in a better place but relating the ripple impact of that outcome and making that outcome the hero is what Somebody everybody can identify with part of that because you can be a mom An educator a business person or you know any type of Any person and find something in that outcome that does resonate with you and moves you to take action Right. Well, I think that you know the the compassion and benevolence factor in the non-profit world has really changed tremendously to data metrics impact And and that is a new level. I think it's a new type of compassion Um, but it's a very interesting Approach in that it's not just benevolence. It's solution based and we're seeing younger donors. They're like, yeah, this is wrong So that's not the discussion. The discussion is how do we solve the problem? And it's it's a fascinating thing because I think older donors have been more like, well This is the compassionate benevolent thing to do Um versus really drilling down And saying what are the solutions and this is hard for nonprofits. It is it is but that Yeah, that advocacy level that we talk about when you have somebody in that level They believe they are part of the solution What you do is part of their identity And they're as committed to you as they are to the the mission of what you do And that's the place we want everyone to be Yeah, so interesting. Well, you have been such a treasure Jane Pfeiffer to come on And then so bizarre to have you Come on and share these amazing thoughts and approaches in a time when your own state is really in a crisis Of of its own and uh, you know, it's it's really been Adjects to position of of what can go on and even at the darkest days We still need to have these thoughts we still we still need to be thinking up here So that we can be more sustainable And so I really appreciate you taking time and and clarifying some of these things During a time of incredible challenge for you and your state. So thank you very much Check out. We are fieldtrip.com Jane. I can't remember. I watched the video and it's it's it's mission mission multiplier mission multiplier fascinating you have a series of Videos you have homework you have drilled down.  And so anybody joining us today on the nonprofit show check out we are fieldtrip.com It's an amazing resource. It's free and Really valuable it really amplifies a lot of the things that you were talking about With us today in a very practical very strategic way. So I appreciate you sharing that with us and our viewers Thank you, Julia. Yeah, we aim to be relentlessly helpful I love it. I think that's really super powerful Again, Jane Pfeiffer founder and president of fieldtrip. We are fieldtrip.com check them out There's just an amazing amount of information. Again. I'm Julia Patrick I have not been joined today by my sidekick Jarrett Ransom. She'll be back with us tomorrow We want to make sure that we extend our gratitude to all of our presenting sponsors from Bloomerang American nonprofit academy national university's fundraising academy non-profit nerd your part-time controller non-profit thought leader and staffing boutique These are the folks that are with us day in and day out so that we can present Amazing thought leaders like Jane today to our viewers and to our listeners Jane, this has really been great. What a wonderful way. I mean, I'm coming to you from in the wet from the west coast So I'll I'll say you started my day with a bang. So thank you Thank you, Julia. It's been a lot of fun. Hey everybody as we end every episode episode of the nonprofit show We like to remind ourselves And our viewers and listeners to stay well So you can do well. We're thinking of you our friends in kentucky. We'll see you back here tomorrow


Hello fellow freelancers. So today I wanted to talk about I received a number of questions on my course that I've been dealing with And I thought they might be interesting to talk about with you guys and to make videos about and so I'm gonna be addressing one of those today And more specifically, I'm going to be addressing something that has to deal with word counts Now I've talked about counting words before and how that applies, but I haven't really gone into detail And this could be one of those examples of how something that might seem obvious to me because I'm so in deep into freelance translation actually might not be obvious at all to someone who's first starting out and Could be a question they have and so I wanted to address this basically the question that I had was this One of the students had asked When I count the words to a text that needs to be translated should I count the kind of conjunction words like and any Stuff like that a you know little words that Conjunctions or articles anyway these small words should I count them because they don't Make up the substance the main substance of the text, but there's still words there So I don't know if I should count them as words and so I want to give my response to this because it's a bit Multifaceted first of all. Yes, absolutely. You count them. You count every single word you have to translate And so if they give you a text of 1000 words, that's 1000 words That you need to translate so you quote 1000 words There are some issues with this and possibly accept exceptions. I'll get into that at the end, but Let's start with a premise that if they give you a text of 1000 words You try you have a certain price per word and I've mentioned this before that the best way to Have a price is a price per word of the source text So you say, okay, my price is whatever per word times x number of words. That's how much it costs fine now There are a couple issues When you receive this text, how do you count the words and I wanted to address this because obviously she's counting them word by word if she's counting the any and all and a and or or and all these small words and You usually don't eat you hardly ever need to do that. In fact, I Never I can't remember the last time I did that. There are many ways to count words In which you don't need to do it yourself. First of all, if you have Microsoft Word put the text in there And you get the word count it should in fact It depends on the version of Microsoft Word But it's either already written there at the bottom the number of words and you'll see it written there at the bottom I think at the bottom left or if you go under tools and again It depends on the version so you need to check for what type of Microsoft Word you have But there should be an option there under tools to count the words and that's it It's very easy. It gives you the number of words and so once again there you have your price per word This is a number of words. Okay, that's what it'll cost me. That's what it'll cost the client and That should be set. What if you don't have Microsoft Word? You can always copy and paste the text into Microsoft Word I mean if they give you a text that's not in it But what if you don't have Microsoft Word at all and you want to do the translation first of all I recommend having Microsoft Word or some version thereof because you're gonna get a lot of texts in that But if you don't have it You can also go online just I mean, I don't I don't even remember the websites But there are a lot of them just google word count and there will be a plate There'll be one of those websites where you can just paste the text in there and it'll give you a total word count And that that'll be quite easy and in fact, it'll many of them do really cool things Like show you the most common words and how they're situated and all that but Just to get a word count is very easy go google word count and How to get a word count whatever it is and you'll find a place that does it and you just paste the text in there and it's very easy now This is how it works and this is how it should work. I wanted to get into some of the variations. So for someone like Uh, like this lady who asked me the question Someone in her shoes I would I would say just to take the text get the word count either from microsoft word or one of those places online And then you have the total number of words in the document And you know what to charge the client because it's the total number of words times Your price per word and that's the price you charge Now let's get into some of the weird variations that might pop up First of all, you might get say like a scanned document or you know an image or something like that So there's no way to do a word count because you can't get text from there Uh, so what you can do here what you can do is use an ocr I've mentioned ocr before optical character recognition This is something that scans whatever image there and tries to parse out the text and you can get a word count from that It won't be very precise. What you usually see happen here is uh, is I mean people might try that but usually what you see happens people will charge Rather than per the source word per word of source text They'll charge per target word per word of target text and you can do this as well Uh, so what happens is the client sends you something a scanned page and you say well My price is a whatever number of cents per per target text and uh per target word and So that's how it is and so the client says yes or no and then you go ahead There are a couple of drawbacks with this obviously first of all You and the client don't know a final cost a final price until it's actually finished because you don't know How many words they're going to be until you've actually carried out the translation and that can be a bit iffy Um, and so what you end up doing many times is trying to estimate how many words there will be and That can be an issue as well because because you need to keep in mind That a lot of texts the same text in one language will have a different number of words in a different language I've noticed when I translate from Italian into English if it has say 1000 words in Italian, it'll have 1000 and uh, I mean it could be anywhere from say 1100 to 1300 words in English So there's always yeah about 10 to even 30 percent more like 1.1 to 1.3. Yeah It's usually not a full 30 percent, but it'll be around 10 more words This actually works to my favor if I charge per target word But if you charge if you translate from English into Italian, it could work against you So keep this in mind some translators have a different rate for source word and for target word because of just for that reason And so when you can do there is say look my rate per target word is so and so and if they accept it fine And then you can move on One other thing I should say I shouldn't have to say but I will say that you need to keep in mind When you charge per target word, you're going to find something that you're translating the text into target word And you start thinking wait a minute I'm getting paid per word here, but I'm writing the number of words So why don't I write more words and that's when you start finding people writing stuff like instead of The man's jacket. They'll be like the jacket belonging to the man or whatever And you know anyone who's written an essay in college and has tried to get more words in because they need a certain number of words They know all the tricks he can play I would strongly advise against playing any of these tricks everyone seen them before and The people looking over your job aren't going to be some teacher who just rolls his eyes be like Okay, he's trying to get more words. Whatever. No, because it's their money out of their pocket So they're going to notice that stuff first of all second of all, they aren't going to hire you again If you want a client for the long term Don't do that. Don't play those games because now I'm someone who's hiring translators and I see it right away If first of all if someone's charging per target text My antennae are already up because I know people like to play those games second of all You notice it when they do it and I notice it if they don't do it and really appreciate it because right away I'm like, okay. That's an honest translator who is just concentrating on the translation I'm not trying to play little games here and there. You don't want to look like you're playing little games Just translate the text the number of words that come out. That's the number of words You know, don't don't play text and don't play games and look it's even if you get Marginal number of extra words because you play these games. It won't make any difference It doesn't make that much difference at all. In fact, you might lose a client. So it'll make A lot of difference in that sense So if you are charging Ideally you charge per source word and you find a way to do that if you can't charge per target word and And then you'll end up Knowing the exact amount once you finish it You can kind of get an estimate through ocr or something ahead of time But you'll know for sure once you finish it also because when you're typing you're typing on word or something like that And so it's a lot. Obviously you can get the word count very easily at that point um Now there's one other example that you might have like someone might say hand you a book And they'll say here's a do I have a book handy? No, obviously I don't so they'll say here's a book Can you translate this how many words are there here? Obviously you can't use a word count you Want to come up with a good price before you do the translation because This is a whole book is a huge translation And so you need to come up with a good price even for yourself Because they probably don't care about your price per word or even whether it be target word or source word They want a whole price for the whole book. I wish I had a book. Yeah, here we go That's a bit too thick, but if you have a book say like this, you know, they're not going to want to Have a price per word. They're going to want to know how much it costs to translate the whole thing So you need to figure out A way to do this now the way you can check out a price per Uh Per word there is basically to do an estimate and you can tell the client This is an estimate to be confirmed upon delivery to be confirmed upon completion of translation to be confirmed upon You know, whatever you can just add that to the bottom of your email or whatever you send them as a quote If you need to estimate the number of words that there are what you can do is You take the text Take the first whatever number of Of lines that you feel comfortable with the more the better obviously because you're going to be more precise But say take 10 lines or 20 if you can take 20, that's better Take 20 and count the number of words In those 20 lines, let's say divided by 20 and you have the average number of words per line Now look how many lines there are per page take that average number of words per line and Then times it times the number of lines per page And then you times it times the number of pages obviously They're good. You have to you're going to have to make a couple issues You're going to have to take a couple things into into account. Sorry because A lot of some pages will end like that And then the next chapter kind of starts a bit further down and you know, you have stuff like that Uh, you you're also going to have dialogue. I don't know if there's any dialogue handy here Anyway, many times dialogue is only in the margin and it doesn't take up the whole thing You're going to have little sections like that. So that's why it's very much an estimate take it into account You want if you want to be safe beyond you know a bit on the high side or something like that But I would just come up with a good estimate and tell The client this is an estimate to be confirmed upon completion of translation because it's impossible To tell what the exact number of words will be At this point in time By the way, when you're translating books many times you can do a translation You have a rate per page or something like that. So I'm just trying to give you an example of how to Make a word count when you have a huge number of words Let's say one thing one other thing that I should mention when you have a long translation Like when you have any long translation But when you have a long translation such as where you have to estimate the number of words remember That You don't want to wait until you've completed the whole thing to get paid So many things can go arey can go wrong Maybe you're doing it the wrong way or the client isn't happy or the client isn't Honest or I don't know something like that. So you ask for milestones And by the way, I do this for every client I have if it's a new client Especially if they ask for something that's over X amount. I tell them They usually like it because it means that you're you have experience with this and you know where you're doing So if someone gives you say a whole book to translate you tell them Look, I'd be happy to do it. And you know, this is the price upon confirmation blah, blah, blah But with any new client, I uh, I need to get paid after the first $100 invoiced whatever you want to say or you know, thousand words or whatever it might be And so uh, and so after say the first two chapters I will perform the first two chapters send them to you and once I receive payment for that I'll continue with the rest Anyway, this was a long thing and in fact, I veered off a bit. Sorry about that Word count is an important aspect. It's usually quite easy to count the number of words or or either way to figure them out And if you can't you can always charge per target word keep in mind that when you have different languages The amount of the target word Count can be a bit different from the source word count. So you want to keep that in mind By the way, it's not that much different You know, I mentioned it can be different by 10 to 20 percent when you're dealing with Italian to English Where it really makes a difference is when you have a language say from Chinese to English or English to Chinese Because you have characters in Chinese, but you have words in English and the number of characters versus the number of words can be very different So keep that in mind because if you're translating the same text and you per source word It's going to be very different than if you price it per target word or target character So these are things you do need to keep in mind um, but yeah, uh, hopefully you can figure it out and Hopefully it makes sense to you And once again, once you've done this a couple times you will get the hang of it and it'll become easier and easier at the time It goes by but I hope you found this useful If you do, please don't forget to click like and subscribe and all that good stuff and I'll see you in the next video Thanks. Bye