All right, good evening. Welcome to the Amherst Planning Board Wednesday, November 20th 2019 7 p.m. It's actually 7 0 5 Town Room Town Hall first thing we have on the agenda is minutes, and we do have one set of minutes from October 30th 2019 Yes, Chris.  So you have two sets of minutes, okay? So I'll start with the older one the one that we started with at the last meeting October 2nd a Revision came out. It was sent to us electronically Does anyone have any other comments or corrections? Is that a hand up? I Had one correction just to clarify the comments by Mark Kavanaugh a Florence Bank I'm just to sort of simply state that the Florence Bank is worried that tenants and Guests will use Florence Bank for overflow parking. I could just say that more clearly Can you tell me where that is in the minutes? Isn't the public comment section by oh Any other comments or corrections? I See none. Do I hear a motion? Sorry move to approve the October 2 minutes Any other discussion all in favor unanimous Yes, unanimous. We'll move on to the October 30th These are new First time we looked at them. Does anyone have any corrections issues? I think you did you did receive these in these minutes that were circulated by email earlier. Yes Electronic packet is everyone all good. I move to approve the minutes of October 30 Any other discussion I Don't see any Janet all in favor raise your yep and unanimous good. So those are done. Thank you Okay, so item 2 is public comment period This is where we ask any of the attendees if they would like to speak on something that is not an item That's on our agenda to raise their hand and they can come up for Like a three-minute talk if it's all right if you come up you can stay she'll come up here. I'm sure Come up and like I said, make sure the green light is on say your name and address to the minute takers and welcome I'm more keen from Dennis Drive and Amherst and I just wanted to Bring up to the planning board We talked about a little at the zoning subcommittee that on Monday the town council Affirm the recommendations of the energy and climate action committee to Make Amherst as a town Not go above the carbon use of 2016 year and by 2050 at the latest to be totally carbon neutral and this goes along with the UN I Got all the initial studies of 2018. It should be a worldwide goal, but we can only control what happens in Amherst so that I Was hoping that the planning board in Evaluating all the projects that come before it would put that in as a Maybe as a goal for the projects or as an aspiration to make them as the energy efficient as possible and Maybe when the zoning Laws are redone that can be incorporated. I know it's net zero is Is In effect for public buildings, but I think it should be encouraged for private as well and for homes and There was also something else brought up by Laura Drucker who's chair of the committee that Renters who pay their own utilities are actually paying a portion of those utility costs to mass save Which should be used to do energy audits on the buildings in which they're renting And if the landlords don't order those Don't arrange for those energy audits then the renters don't see the benefits Because they're paying more and it so that should also I don't know if that fits in the planning board or where it goes, but Anyways, I think we should look into that and And and the net the energy carbon neutral is not just for building it might involve planting more trees or using electric vehicles or carbon sequestration Plans, but The building is also part of it Thank you. I'm sure we'll be getting some information from the town council goals. And is it I think it got referred to Committee and I'm sure they'll be or But how to actually do it and implement there'll be more information coming so we'll watch for that They decided that each individual project as it came up or each individual resolution would go before the Resource community resources committee and the finance committee, but the overall goals are Established and they'll be monitored to make sure so that we don't wait till 2029 to Suddenly try and meet the goals When you say You know carbon neutral is I mean zero That's for the in all the residents not just the government when you say Amherst you mean the whole town the whole town Okay, and the whole world hopefully too, but and there's no one else here to speak on something. Okay, so we will move on So it's 713 I'll read the preamble So continuing the hearing for Riverside organics SPR 2020-03 Jonathan Grafine said Riverside organics 555 Belch Town Road request for site plan review approval to construct and operate a marijuana product Manufacturer and marijuana micro business under section 3.3 6 3.5 of the zoning bylaw map 18d parcel 2 PRP zoning district This public hearing is being continued from November 6th 2019 Welcome back. Good evening. I assume you want to tell us give us some more updates and Especially on the information we had asked for at the last meeting and I just wanted to say In our electronic packets we got information and Chris So we should have a bunch of things and we'll go over that if they're not brought up Excuse me. There was a USB with a bunch of files with business plan and standard operating procedures Which was given to Christine without her being made aware you folks will be sent that in the next day I'm assuming for your review and will those be sent by email or do they draw it like a big or There are drawings that I can copy there is a USB and I'm not sure exactly what's on here But I think there's a management plan on here everything's on and mr. Gurfine referred to SOP, which I don't really know what that is but standard operating standard operating procedures So all that information and Security and for every facet of it. They want to state want it and I thought you wanted so we will Send this information to you and I apologize for not having sent it sooner I didn't quite know what it was so we will make sure that you get all of that information for your next meeting great So so since we last met I invited the Mike Roy and his superior Jeff at infectious last name down to the site. We walked through and around I Went over doors exits egress gates all the other various issues that the fire department is concerned with as well as Fire extinguishers and the requirements, etc They were satisfied with everything they are in the process I'm assuming they already did they did not send an email yet to Christine restroom Regarding the review of the fire plan and spec sheets There was only one issue with the exit door if it should have a push bar fire exit on it Which that will be decided by the town building inspectors and the fire Personnel referred me to them when I get to that point with either Dave W and I forget the other inspectors name Was there something else from fire I Think that was it. Oh, right in relation to Janet's concern In mulling it over. I think that probably having an exit door Not on the front facing where the parking spots are where one and two are labeled right here Where my cursor is but to have a fire exit one-way exit egress out only right here in the back corner just to I Guess it would be Unsafe not to have some type of other egress even with everything being built new and safe You know just God forbid there should be a door there. So I'm going to agree with Janet and By one-way security door out Fire door with all required whatever to code In relation to fire that is it The compost but oh the the egress from the neighbor As far as I know the definition of an egress is not necessarily defined to a certain Location but just a general right of passage in this particular Situation an egress was granted in the past where was a compost which you are concerned about the compost because of the Concom did not want it near the wetlands. I eliminated it I also moved the other compost pile out of the 100 foot zone from the wetlands Um There was concerned about amount of soil etc What I've decided to do is to Compost the soil with a tiller and to throw some hydrated lime on it that will sterilize any Moles bacteria is anything farm that I don't want back in the facility So I will be able to reuse the compost pile by You know just composting whatever soil I put out there So that should take care of that issue There's more than enough room there for the compost pile To be placed so I Know Christine was concerned about that with the generator But there's in that section as it as depicted here. There's more than enough space for a combo There any other issues I know so there was the the fire there was the door I need to be in time in touch with the town engineer regarding the runoff plan he said everything sounds fine because I'm using a 2100 gallon Cistern to recover the water from the two roofs of the buildings So he said that from everything we discussed there should not be an issue I called him today to invite him down to the site just to walk it over just to make sure he's satisfied with all the various precautions and apparatus I'm taking to keep the stormwater runoff at the proper levels Christine and in the last in the last meeting And Christine had made me aware that About the signage so I am going to be putting signage in according to I'm assuming the CCC regulations and just general rules of Making people aware of closed circuit television and use even though this is a private street I will have the signage on the front stating no entry You know all the various general Private do not enter under threat of prosecution, etc. The lighting there was a lighting sheet passed out to you folks there The specifications that were requested were 4,000 Kelvin. I think it was a Kelvin, right? So that is what I'm using some using 120 to a weight and on that 150 watt. It'll show you there The level of the Kelvin's produced is 4,000 which is at the 150 watt light which I've already purchased and using it 120 to a weight electricity, which is what I have at the facility. I think those are all the issues Which were left open from the last meeting? You did go to the Conservation oh, right. Oh, yeah, they gave me the permit which I have right here. Yes I have the permit. I was granted that today, which I have to go record. Yes I have to go record at the registry of deeds tomorrow But they sent Christine and Pam are aware of the issuing of that permit So at this point, I'll open it up to questions from the board If you have any questions, Jack, I was just wondering with regard to your compost Pile you you were Reduced it by from two to one. I'm just wondering is that essential that you have that compost? No, not really the people that I was going to work with which turned out They had every intention on dealing to the black market. So I had to cut ties with them They were claim-making claims that if you keep Reusing soil Which I've reused soil for decades. I've never had a problem They were making claims that you can get funks soil-borne fungus from dead roots in soil I have a soil machine big massive soil machine, which I'm going to churn soil You know if you add like worm castings or bat guano or various other organic because it's organic growth mix it in I'm going to be taking the use soil Redruvenating it with whatever organic byproducts I'm considering it taking out. I might not even use a compost pile Have it there just in case There may be certain byproducts that I will not sell or use which I will under CCC rules have to Compost into the earth with a machine etc. Would have you so for that only the compost pile But most of the soil which is Which is there's two components to the soil. There's the organic coast of Maine from Maine, which is a very good rich Soil and then there's a promix a promix is generally spagum peat vermiculite and perlite and it's a general Standard made by many companies So I'm going to be mixing the two Because the promix is airy that you need the aeration of the soil the roots so The soil itself really gets eaten up by the plant and what you're left with is the promix which is inert so In mulling it over with the issue of cost because the soil is very expensive and the issue of composting That's what I'm going to do. I'm just going to reuse the soil and Anything that I have material that the CCC is requiring that be destroyed Roots various leaves etc. I'm going to be taking that out of the compost pile. Any other questions I Have I have a question for you and the signs that he's talking about would we have to see those? like you know security or Do we only see signs that are the businesses you could make a blanket statement that you would approve anything that has to do with Security any signage that has to do with security But if mr. Gryffine wants to put up some signs that aren't required by the CCC or the town for some reason Then he would need to come back to you to have the signs approved Would that be agreeable to you? Yeah, sure. I'm not planning on putting anything up there except for they're just small It's shaped like a stop saying was actually up there when you folks were there It's just maybe ten inches by ten inches Octagon, I believe it is it says, you know private no trespassing et cetera That I don't know if it has cameras on I don't think it has cameras on there But I'm assuming the CCC is gonna want me to have something says, you know cameras and you Chris So I understand the material that's on this thumb drive here Involves Some of these standard operating procedures and the management of the site So do you want mr. Gryffine to spend some time talking to you about that because you'll be getting the documents But in case you have some questions, this would be an opportunity to ask him questions about that And again, I regret that I didn't we don't have them, but we could put them Up on the screen and I guess I could put them on the screen, but I think they're a long read He could summarize So I will send them to you and you can ask him questions next time. Okay, sounds good Just did I see a correspondence between the you Chris you Did the town engineer give a Final email or we're still waiting on that we're waiting for the town engineer. Yes, the only the only thing is the stormwater runoff Yeah, and I was the only made aware of that recently You know I've been in touch with him and I spoke to them on the phone I told him he's familiar with the plan. He said yeah, that sounds great. It shouldn't be a problem Just give me the calculation and then he'll he'll send us an email Yeah, so we can have that for the next time. It's really just a matter of just some procedure right now Just to get him some numbers, but he said it should be Great with the rain recovery Good. It's good. It's on the works I saw David David What it looks like we were given deeds To the property that you're building or that you have that you have and then an adjacent property Perhaps another deed why? Miss McGowan asked questions about where the easement was located And so I wanted to provide you as much information as I could find about where that easement was located It's very vague in the deeds it states that there is an easement But I couldn't find any plan that illustrates the easement and you had asked for mr. Gurfine to come back with a Map showing the easement, but I don't think there is such a map Right doesn't I had mentioned in the beginning of the meeting that a technical a legal easement in my familiarity with legal jargon and easement is not doesn't define a Specific location an easement is a right to pass over someone's property to get to their property the easement is determined upon You know agreement of you know negotiation and feasibility of you know where the crossing should be So the this particular where these parking the visitor parking is This was as you can see where it's this Porter Drive This portion of road was not constructed This was a plan which I'm assuming the town rejected a long time ago more than 20 or 30 years of something to the effect Because this property is obviously all it's been here for 20 or 30 years with the restaurant and what have you a radio station So the easement was placed here, but never used or exercised so I'm assuming that now that There's wetlands. It's a moot issue and if you want that an easement You know This is Hall Drive. He can actually reach his pride the top of the right screen Hall Drive here, which I understanding from the town Municipality of the minute DPW they told me this is his private road and his property is back here So in all actuality he can actually access his property from here so You know the issue of an easement that was for a future larger development if he was granted permission To build houses a bill you know a massive building complex housing complex Which I'm assuming the town rejected because it was never done Yeah If that's the easement there's nothing that would impede That use of it just one maybe the corner of the fence, but that he could just know it wouldn't have heated at all Okay, so you know not at all so you could drive through the parking spaces and whatever right? You could drive right into the wetland. No, no, no, we don't like that. Okay, so but there's no there's no structure No, the electric company has this if you look where my cursor is the electric company has a dog house right here But still that's not in the way I mean you could still put a whole road there of Tulane Road and drive right in there That's off to the side, but no no structures there. I'm not going to be putting any structures there or anything But like I said, you know, this is already I'm assuming this plan from my knowledge when I went to you mess when that was season's restaurant and now For 20 years almost the winery and there was a radio station there, you know his his That easement and that whole plan is more than 20 years old Chris Just had one more thing to say. I had a conversation with Aaron Jacques who is now the wetlands administrator And she told me with regard to the trees that were cut I had put a note in a previous mailing to you that I thought it was unsightly and that something should be done To either clean it up or screen it or something like that She said that the conservation commission does not want those trees to be cleaned up She wants they want them to stay there because they're afraid of disturbing the wetland further if those trees are removed so her The conservation commission is saying leave the trees there things will grow up through them around them in the spring it won't be so unsightly and the suggestion or the Requirement of the concom is just to leave them alone. So I wanted to make sure you knew that Chris just so you know I spoke with Aaron today Some of the trees that are sticking out toward the end those will be cleaned to the edge of the driveway which Aaron told me is what is wanted required and Just to block off the wetlands in the future their commission has required or requested that I put large boulders at Right over the edge once everything is done and that straw bells are removed and That large boulders are put there just so for whenever the next You know till eternity the Wetlands are not the start so that's the plan to put large unmovable boulders there on the earth after the edge of the Pavement which she gave me permission to clean to the edge of and then a few inches past that to put up the fencing Chris I'm sorry. I'm taking up so much time But I just wanted to say one more thing that the zoning by-law actually requires that Applicants for marijuana establishments submit documentation to whichever board they're going to Stating that they have submitted their application for a license to do what they're doing So mr. Gurfein is in the process of submitting his application to the state Once he has submitted that he'll get some document back from them saying Acknowledging that that they've received it so he's going to produce that for you when he receives it But that would be an important thing to have before you grant him or whatever approval. You're considering granting him And him actually have the license or just be in the process of it He doesn't need the license. He just needs to prove to you that he's in the process. Thank you Maria, did I see your hand? Okay? Any other questions from the board I don't say anything so We'll continue this hearing are we looking at December 4th? Is Are you available for that December 4th? Yep Did you want to take any public comment in case? Oh, thank you. Yes. Is there anyone here who would like to speak on this? No, I thought I recognized most of the faces So we're gonna continue this to December 4th if I can hear motion Motion to continue this site plan review public hearing to Do we have to say a time or do you You could say 715 you have another case that's coming on at 705, but it's a pretty small case So I think 715 Is Bank of America coming that night? They are but I don't think we've assigned them a time so we'll put them after but This at 7th yeah Did I hear a second on that? Second second any discussion comments? December 4th, okay. We'll vote all in favor unanimous Thank you, and we'll see you on the 4th so we'll move to the 715 it's actually 733 to SPR 2019 dash 08 Javier Campos at Adams-Ruckston for Bank of America 360 College Street being continued from July 24 2019 September 18th 2019 and November 6th 2019 Request to site plan review approval to install new light posts and fixtures to provide better illumination safety and security for Bank of America ATM Commercial zoning district map 15 a parcel 28 The public hearing is now open and at the applicant's request. It is to be continued to December 4th 2019 do I hear a motion to continue to December? 4th 2019 and I have 715 here, but we're gonna slide that to 7 730 Not even real honey. Okay, it's so moved Second Any discussion all in favor? All right, that gets moved. All right, so that's 730. Okay, okay, so we'll move now to Item for public meetings subdivision Amherst Hill subdivisions of 1989 dash 13 Continue discussion on request by residents of Amherst Hill subdivision that the planning board rescind the release of lots that were released By the planning board on May 1st 2019 from the approval with covenant contracted dated July 2nd 2003 recorded in the Hampshire County registry of deeds books 7 5 5 5 page 61 Welcome back I Haven't heard whether is there one of you that would like to make a statement or an update or are you just here to hear us? Look at the information we've received so far an opportunity to speak Save me from Thank you very much madam chair members of the board is breaststroke Pam I'm Tom ready an attorney with bacon Wilson here in Amherst here on behalf of various homeowners in Amherst Hills subdivision We were here Month ago I think end of October and we had a discussion that evening and ultimately the board voted to issue a notice Requesting that the building commissioner does not issue any of the building permits The DPW does not issue any sewer or water connection permits until certain things happened I think what you'll hear tonight is there were some numbers thrown around last time I think the developer had said fifty to a hundred thousand dollars I think you'll see that the top coat if it's two hundred eighty eight thousand dollars the balance of the work to bring that Subdivision road up is six hundred and forty one thousand dollars for a total of nine hundred and thirty thousand dollars And so our request would be that you Modify you know as you can under both the law and under your previous agreement with the Developer you increase the security to that nine hundred and thirty thousand dollars And then you either continue this moratorium on the building permits or you vote to rescind The release of those lots that we had mentioned before We'll be here to listen to speak or turn it over and let mr. Skeels speak is the town engineer on the house There you are Would you like to come up and explain what you? The cost estimate Jason Skeels town engineer So yeah, I did I did the cost estimate based on mass DOT itemized costs for statewide average from they every bid they open they they throw it into the average and it's a running annual Average for the different itemized costs. Well, the best I could I took bits and pieces out of that and went through Subdivision and to see what would need to be done to bring it up to par and came up with the estimate Any does anybody have any specific questions about the estimate or sport have any questions? Chris I Have a question which is that mr. Skeels Tell us how much it would cost to Mild the areas that are not Satisfactory and repaved them and I think he and I had a conversation about this a few weeks ago when we came up with the number One of the items says so item 129 is pavement milling and that is Just under $60,000 and then the item number 450.31 is the intermediate pavement course And that's 145,000 So may I just have one more thing? So the two of those are together amount to about a little over 200,000 to Repair the pieces of the road that are have deteriorated over the years. I just wanted to make that statement So the other parts of it are things that the town wants done so that they can it would be down the road except the road Yeah, so the there's the top coat. There's adjusting all the structures to the finished grade of the top coat There's a lot of deferred maintenance on There's no dogs allowed in here. I'm sorry There's the tension ponds haven't been maintained since Probably since initial construction.  That's that needs to be redone There's some failing catch basins some frames and covers that need to be replaced because they've been damaged There's the detention ponds haven't been maintained More or less. I think since the original construction. So they're completely overgrown There's several stormwater treatment chambers that have never been cleaned out There's a lot to do with the sort of stormwater operation and maintenance plan that that has fallen way behind So a lot of that sort of included in this estimate Janet I Have a question about the stormwater management system Does it does the system when it's functioning serves to protect the road? The drinking water supply below and the neighbors down slope on station road a little bit of all of the above Yes, and it's still marginally functional. It's Yeah, it's just Probably underperforming at this point the ponds the detention ponds do do their do do their job Relatively well whether they're overgrown or not. They're just harder to inspect and harder to maintain so What made this? Three times More money-wise than what we saw a Couple of years ago, so and what we saw again in May When so a lot of this was my there was there was an original estimate that we showed Ted the tofino and There were some items that he promised to check off the list some of those got done others didn't my original estimate from Actually in 2013, I know the three-party agreement didn't come for a few years, but in 2013 my original estimate was 600,000 In the meantime between then and the third-party agreement He took care of certain things like he did pave all the sidewalks that was included in that estimate he Haved the sidewalks and I think he put the binder down to make the continuous loop of conquered and Lyndon Ridge and He also decided to take off The cul-de-sac of Lyndon Ridge Road, which extends out for another total of another seven lots So he said we don't need that. We don't need a security deposit on it So he sort of took that off and we agreed to it so and we also he also a Shortest that he would take care of all the other little things on the list and some got taken care of others didn't so We're sort of back circling back around on some of the things that didn't get done some did get done and Then other parts of the road have just degraded so So much more rapidly than we would have expected that that we're back to you know having to remove So a lot of what has already gone down and that's that's probably the lion's share at this cost is the About 200,000 in mill and and repave So the last estimate you had done was 600 right But a lot of things did get done so you thought the 288 was We was doing good on all he was checking things off the list So and we were in good faith said okay We can just do it for the top course as long as all these other things are getting done and they were Then we said okay that we'll go with just the top course and and the road will be finished So I assume the previous estimates you did of the 600 of the 288 you used mass DOT standards like those yeah the same Same numbers which in general I would say probably it runs the number high Because But usually you use a Like contingency like you mark it up a certain amount. So yeah, I don't see that here For this estimate for the current estimate or the the current the 930 so That does have the that the as built plans at 10% is a little high So I kind of that should be as built and contingencies. I guess then that would clear that up. Okay But those are pretty expensive as builds it would be yes, I should have put contingency is that no no no, okay Anyone else have questions? Chris I Just wanted to note that if Tafino did this work themselves They wouldn't be paying this amount of money because this is the amount that State and federal or excuse me municipal entities have to pay they have to meet the Required weight wage rates, but private entity doesn't need to do that Could you give us an update the last time we spoke he had done a lot of work, but we were mostly waiting for the storm drains There were some things on order has that been done or when is it expected to make it out there today? And I don't think any yeah, I don't think anything would have happened tonight anyways I'm seeing no heads so so he didn't patch the pot bowls and he did They put place domestic around the manholes that were they do that but that would catch our plows So they did all that. They're still waiting on the to they had to reorder some precast concrete tops To replace the ones that were failing so they're waiting on those I think they should I heard that they would be in this week and that they would try to get that done this week I'm not I can't speak for exactly when but that's what I was told okay, so if they were done would The town be able to safely plow the roads again this winter. Yes, okay Any other questions so Seeing that these incorporate prevailing wage What's your estimate if it was not a? It's really hard to say I'd rather have a I'd rather get a paving company in there and have them give me a real estimate Honestly, this you know this I would rather contact vendors directly and say how much to fix this How much to do that and get a real estimate from from a local contractor or three? So Chris there hasn't you haven't heard anything from the developers lawyer About getting a third-party estimate so I put out an email to the developer and asked if they would be getting their own third-party estimate and I also asked if they would be willing to sign a new performance agreement I Didn't hear back from the developer, but through our attorney Joel Bard at cobleman and page. I have heard from Michael pill who is representing the developer and I haven't heard from Michael pill about an answer to either of those questions what I did learn from From cobleman and page from Joel Bard is that the the town It's really up to the developer as to what form of assurance. He is going to give to the town He did have a covenant the covenant has kind of Gone by the wayside now that you've released all the lots But you still have you you ask the the building commissioner not to issue building permits on those lots And we feel that it would be a bad faith Action by the By the developer if he were to go ahead and sell those lots given the fact that you've asked the building commissioner not to Grant building permits for those lots and you've also asked the Department of Public Works not to grant sewer and water connections for those lots that Letter with your request has been filed at the registry So, you know people who would be purchasing those lots are unnoticed that this restriction is in place You didn't put any deadline or expert expiration date on that restriction So that's that's still in place the building commissioner has told me that he's willing to accept your request and abide by your request so So I spoke so Julie stop So Last night I had a very good conversation with Joel Bard a couple minute page and he recommended Well, everyone knows that there's been a lawsuit That the developer has filed a complaint against the residents and what he's asking for is Mediation for arbitration So it's really just in my mind right now. It's not a lawsuit where he's asking for damages or anything like that so Potentially there is going to be some conversation between the developer and the residents We do not get into that at all. That's not the planning board's jurisdiction But given the fact that there there is this lawsuit and given the fact that you did Make the request to the building commissioner not to issue building permits our town council town attorney feels that it is Appropriate for you to just keep those things in place and not to Further take action such as Resin the release of the lots at this time you may wish to revisit this You know in a month from now two months from now whatever but at this time the town Attorneys recommendation to you is not to take further action see what happens with the lawsuit see what happens with Tafina repairing the road and Revisit it later on Thank you What is the course of action with the town if we were to request? Officially of the performance bond being up. I know you said you sent an email asking But what recourse or how does that? We don't really have recourse. We can't really force the developer to sign another agreement, but you do have those restrictions placed on the lots so that in Chilbards opinion, that's pretty significant and and that's what you should stick with for now and not not get into Rescending the release of the lots quite frankly Mr. Bard told me that If the planning board were to step in and rescind the release of the lots now Given the fact that there is a lawsuit out there The planning board could be drawn into the lawsuit and that's probably not some you know a direction that you want to go in So anyway, I think this is a good recommendation by attorney Bard and But of course it's up to the planning board as to you know what direction you want to take and if we could just have an update Before our next planning board meeting on whether or not that work gets done And if the DPW is back on for plowing the neighborhood that would be helpful Any other questions from the board I'm gonna open it up to the public But you're on call I was gonna say maybe you should stay just well if you don't mind what I mean you're way back Um Could I see a show of hands of people who wish to speak this evening on this issue and raise them high in the 34 I see four hands I'll ask again after we get through the four. I'm gonna go first with mr. Master Alexis and then the gentleman or whatever the hand was in the back and and then three and four You're on Make sure the green light is on and introduce yourself All right Good evening, madam chairwoman members of the committee. My name is James master Alexis. I live at 35 Lyndon Ridge Road in Amherst I Am okay with You continuing I'll just call it the moratorium on on building permits and sewer connections I mean I came here we came here to get the lots rescinded which I don't want to repeat my arguments But we said that the work needed to be done that wasn't done, but I understand okay, and we want to be reasonable All right The one thing I want you to consider is this okay? Now Jason just got up here the town engineer got up here and said that he originally in years ago Estimated that the work to be done in the on the subdivision was 600,000 Okay, and then there was a compromise which I'm fine with compromise. Okay To 288 thousand dollars for only the top coat of the road Okay, so where we sit here today is we have a subdivision that and I know that the Figure needs to go down because of the various prevailing wages. I understand that but I'll just use the 930 for a discussion we have a With the understanding that's going to be lower. We have a subdivision that requires $930,000 worth of work various things that are on I think a four-page punch list Okay, and the only security that we have is for the top layer of the road Okay, now I've read as you know We've all read a lot of things in this case and I read a very instructive memo from this breast of I think it was dated March 17th 2017 where she said And please correct me if I'm wrong this breast that once a subdivision is over 50% complete That the town requires either a check from the developer or some type of Security for the project. Okay here in the covenants. The only security was The work on the ground has to be completed. Then you went to the three-party agreement for the 288 My point is is that we have approximately You know south of 930 thousand dollars worth of work and we're only guaranteeing the top coat of the road What if that work doesn't get done, you know, we're we're gonna be everyone's gonna be stuck on that So I would ask you To please increase, you know, keep the moratorium on the building permits in the sewer hookups I think that's a good compromise and I understand that okay, but you need to please increase the security on this project Because I think given the recent history of what's gone on there. There's been such a lack of work That's happened in the last couple years I think that's instructive of the developers either willing lack of willingness or lack of financial ability To pay for the work here. I don't know what it is, but I would just ask you to quickly You know as quick as you want to go okay Increase the security on this project. Okay, so that's my comment Thank you very much. There was a hand in the back there Sit down and and the catch it in the mic your name and address Brian Scully 22 Hawthorne Road in Amherst Yeah, sure. Yeah, I'll pull the mic a little closer That okay much better. Thanks. I don't know what when you look out here and you see all of us I mean the people from Amherst Hills It may look like we're angry and we're not we're worried We're really worried and I think tonight you got a peek into what the communication is like between us and Tafino I would think that a letter from the planning board or you know, I'm not exactly sure what your job is ma'am But I would think that would be taken seriously, you know, and at least being given the courtesy of reply they're not even replying to you and You have the power of Rescending the lots. I think Jim's right. I think you're you've you've got a good compromise here It's fair and that's all we want is is to be treated fairly We don't begrudge them making a lot of money on the development.  There's good people. It's safe We just want them to finish what they said they would do Exactly in the way they said they would do it and this thing about going to arbitration I think that's I think that's That's getting us trying to get us to negotiate against ourselves We already have a negotiation when we bought our homes that they would finish the roads In a manner that you the town would say, okay, they're they're in good shape We'll take them over and we all bought our houses with that understanding and so now they're asking us to move into arbitration I guess as a sidestep from court, but that's what we're doing is we're by just doing that We're going into a situation where we're giving something up right out of the gate Meaning we're not holding you to your full your full deal. We're okay. Let's what do you want 75% 50? What what is it and that's just not the right way to do it when we bought our houses? We made deals to pay them we paid them just like we pay our taxes and everything else There's just a certain decency in how you treat people and the fact that I'm shocked when you know when I get my bill for water I rate the check the same day and it's in the mailbox I mean, that's how I respond to stuff that comes from the town or from anybody It's just a common courtesy They're not given that and I think we're all afraid they might go bankrupt or pull one of those Bankruptcies to try to remove them from the the thing and maybe they'll just say well, let's eat the 10 lots. What the hell, you know I don't know what they're gonna do and when you don't get any communication I don't think you can even really guess but we're worried. We're not angry We're worried and we're not trying to take money away from them. Hell if they can get this done for 600 grand or something Great, it's we're not trying to punish anybody We just want what we came into the agreements with we want to get what we had Just like we did when we bought our houses. None of us tried to back out and shorten the money None of us have done anything like that We've just tried to live up to the deal and that's what we want But I think it's scary as hell that they're they're just ignoring what you when you ask them questions and gave them I would imagine a few weeks to answer Just I find that trouble and that's all thank you Joan Huntley H-u-n-t-l-e-y 16 Hawthorne Road. I just wanted to hear another Issue that's come up because of this is my husband and I have had our house on the market And we're not going to be able to sell it now not with this over our head I don't know if increasing the security Would help somebody coming into the situation look at our house, but I just wanted you to understand that that's another problem Alexander Melio 73 Lyndon Ridge Road First of all, thank you all so much for listening to this matter over and over over several weeks So I would like to say something with respect to good faith I am a Computer science professor here at UMass. I I have nothing to do with construction when I bought my house I didn't expect that I would be on the hook for building the roads Me and my neighbors are regular people and I understand we all live in a small town and and we operate in good faith because You know, we're we're I don't know. I don't want to say friends But like we you know one person in this room delivered my child and and I'm sure I've had I've had a lot of you know, maybe your kids in my classroom. So You know, it's it's it makes sense that we operate in good faith, but When the time comes when we see evidence of bad acting here It should make us take an extra step to To protect those who need it and and we're not asking for favors here We're asking you to exercise the mandate that the planning board has which is supervise construction and subdivisions We think I share same as our neighbors the concerns that We don't know exactly what is going on with tofino There's a lot of talk going around about, you know, financial trouble Maybe they will go bankrupt. I know one of my Friends in the last couple of years has tried to contact them to build a house They never got back to him. Something is up. I don't know what it is They're not showing up to these meetings We all are and we are concerned that you know They're just trying to make as much money as they can from the lots they have and just bail out So increasing the securities is really important to make sure that we're all protected And and we're not left hanging and having to build the road ourselves We're just regular people here and we're asking you to do The job that the planning board is supposed to be doing in these cases. Thank you. Thank you Chris, I Just wanted to say that I don't think the planning board can unilaterally increase the security It was a three-party agreement that was signed by the developer the bank and the planning board So without the other two legs to the stool, I don't think that we can make this work Is there anyone here who wishes to speak? Hi, I'm John Kennedy. I'm at 36 linen Ridge Road I just wanted to observe that what's happening here with Tulfino and coal construction is not Isolated to our neighborhood. There's a pattern here We have friends on Kestrel and Hopbrook and they're experiencing exactly the same situation Where the base coat was put down in their neighborhood the road begins to deteriorate and they've been working For years to try to convince Tulfino to act to fulfill their obligation And they've been unsuccessful the only difference is that they haven't organized the way that we have but I've spoken to the President of their neighborhood association and they're deeply concerned watching what's going on here But you have a whole another neighborhood in Amherst that was built by the same developer That's going through exactly the same thing the same pattern of to Fino coal Not living up to the the obligations their contractual obligations to complete the road So we're not again. They never completed the road When we bought our houses, we did not buy our house Expecting that we would be responsible for constructing the roads We bought our houses knowing that the roads would be completed and in the event That when the roads were completed the town did not accept the roads that we would be responsible for maintenance Not that we would be responsible for completing the uncompleted roads and the reason the roads You know in my theory, of course is That they're deteriorating is because they were never completed the top coat was never put on so that's probably why The estimate continues to go up. There's a base coat down. No top coat. No sealant So the roads are naturally deteriorating at a rapid rate and if we wait on this that $900,000 is probably going to go up even farther So again We respect the role that you play to look out for the town's interests We are the town. We are the citizens of the town the taxpayers of this town And we expect you to look up for our interest as well And we appreciate anything you can do to help us. Thanks. Thank you. I See one more hand. Is there anyone else who would like to speak? After this Welcome Thank you. Hi, Lake Spirko 53 Concord way Just like to reiterate some of that same thing that to Fino Ted Parker knew that this was only a base coat and would Deteriorate we would determined after so many years and we well extended that and the town engineer even said that our last meeting that He informed Parker that it would deteriorate now. It's deteriorating the price tag is going way up He knew that I guess he's thinking under his way that they're reading this Contract which we read totally different is there's no incentive for him to fix the road because he's gonna put the bill on us because he's calling that maintenance although I will reiterate Ted Parker and Cole told us personally that they would fix to get the road to a condition that the town would take it over and they had all Thoughts that they would get it to a Condition that the town would take it over and they've done so in the past So that was all verbal, but they have made an agreement to all of us and now they've seemed to Go back on their word. Thank you Thank you Mr. Eady Thank You madam chair just one last point maybe to miss Brestrop's latest point about the unilateral authority of the planning board to increase the security Or performance agreement, and I think that a couple of things Planning boards authority comes from the statute 41 81 you I'll read in a minute an excerpt from Joel Bard's email that was sent to the town I think last month which cites a case that supports that point for the planning boards authority also comes from the approval so when you originally not this Specific board, but the planning board approved this definitive subdivision some odd years ago, you know 1989 There were certain performance requirements, and there were expectations There there was a plan a definitive plan that was endorsed by the board that had certain criteria that Required the developer to meet so that's kind of the basis for this So that approval was given because everybody thought that these roads were going to be constructed in accordance with those plans up to those standards And so while you've got this three-party agreement, which by its terms specifically says In accordance with the decision if the obligations are not completed by June 30th 2019 The planning board may require the applicant to provide additional security as Necessary to maintain such direct and reasonable relationship Which security shall be a condition for obtaining further lot releases and or permit issuances And so while you may not be able to go to them and say you have to I think you've got a pretty strong argument here that you may Because they had agreed to it back in 2017 I think by rescinding the lots you gain a little bit more leverage than to go back into maybe Exercise under the terms of that agreement that three-party agreement But even absent that three-party agreement you can seek a separate security and it's the I think it's It's a case out of Millbury's owning board of appeals of Millbury versus I think Foxgate LLC and Joel quotes it Sites it in his email and it says The court ultimately concluded and this is from Joel's email The court ultimately concluded that the planning board in that case meaning that Foxgate case Properly could revisit quote properly could revisit the section 81 you security requirement unquote Despite the lots being released from the Covenant because a planning board's authority to ensure that sufficient Security is in place for the construction of ways and services is an important function of the statute And then later on he says the power to revisit or modify the Covenant or security for completion of ways and services Did not terminate when the lots were released And so when we're talking about what can the planning board do to me That seems pretty clear that the planning board can and in fact should in this instance Ask for or request additional security whether it's in the form of a three-party agreement or not and I think that rescinding Approval and understanding that you have got some advice from town council and you're not necessarily gonna step into litigation if you don't have to Though the town may be in pleaded anyway because it may play a crucial role here We would suggest that if you can rescind The release of those lots then you gain some leverage back to put some pressure and if it's 930,000 or $800,000 something To really satisfy the neighbors to know that because if there's that securities in place And if the developer walks away Then at least we know that those roads are going to be completed and it's not going to be on the homeowners or on the town Because it's likely that the town may get involved if there needs to be some completion and it's not on the homeowners back So understanding what council has said to you I would suggest Maybe some further discussions with him if you're not ready to act tonight And maybe you take it up at your next meeting But it seems to me like you have the unilateral authority to ask for additional or separate security to bring it up to that amount that you need Chris could I request that you go back to mr. Bard and asked about deeper clarification on the Millbury versus Foxgate and the line about the June 30th 2019 deadline and If that had it has any Bite to it Does the board have any other other besides Janet anyone else? Okay, so Janet So I would add to that the paragraph that says The amount of the security she'll at all times bear a direct and reasonable relationship to the expected cost to complete such work Including but not limited to the effects of inflation delays in construction and damage to previously completed work in a Accordance with the decision if the obligations are not completed by June 30th 2019 the planning board may require the applicant to provide Additional security as necessary to maintain direct such direct and reasonable relationship Which security shall be a condition for obtaining further lot releases and or permit it permit issuances so This it seems to me that the agreement gives The planning board the ability just to increase the security or the the performance guarantee amount which I think would force Tofino to get that and the contract was written by Tofino So it should be like construed against them since they wrote the language. It's when you interpret it You kind of think okay So can can Jill can Bard look at that and say can we just under this contract just enforce that term and Increase the guarantee performance guarantee any other questions not entirely sure whether this is a question or simply a comment, but I Had an opportunity I looked to find them and found the subdivision regulations the last amended in June of 2014 and There are several points in it which are both illuminating and confusing I'm looking at the section six required improvements and the subsection is basic requirements and It says the subdivider shall provide all of the improvements required here in and Installed at his own expense all work done under the section shall be done under the direction of the board the town manager and the town engineer And no aforementioned bond or covenant shall be released until all streets have been in place over at least one winter Now the two questions I have is One with why over one winter and what does The streets mean in this in this connection does it mean the streets fully fully finished and accepted by the town or a built-to-town standards or Or what exactly does that section mean? Immediately following that it says in addition to the town of Amherst construction standards Those are capitalized town Amherst construction standards the following minimum Specifications shall govern all the installation of all roadways utilities and other improvements And then it goes on with drainage and sanitary sewers and clearing and rubbing the rights away and so on But my question is is there such a thing? Documented and written down as town of Amherst construction standards for roadways And that's a question. I think mr. Skeels can answer directly easily Yes, there are town of Amherst construction standards. They're currently dated 1975 I believe we are working on updating them Most of the things apply here some materials need updating We made an attempt several years ago And have been sort of pushing it along every winter since So we are in the process of updating them. We have more updated policies and nothing we have not gotten the full blessing of the of the town of Amherst construction standards yet, but we have updated Lots of policies and lots of material standards and lots of construction standards, but not officially in that document as of 1975 No, it might be 80. Thank you while you're still here Would you interpret that the phrase? Shall be released until all streets have been in place as Meaning the streets are completed to town standards I would interpret it as completed and I think your question about the one winter That's like sort of a one-year guarantee kind of thing the winter usually plays out Any wrongdoing that went went on during construction. That's sort of like a you know a loose one-year guarantee I would as a get I'm just sort of taking a stab at that Do you have more one more and this this comes from sections section eight administration has to do with the Administrating the regulations the subdivision regulations under inspection number C number four It says the developer has the responsibility to ensure that the approved construction plans are implemented Now that seems to me to be a very specific Developer and that until they are built to town standards They are the responsibility of the developer and I think we need to somehow assert that and Perhaps point out to mr. Parker and to Fino associates that That the planning board at least Finds them responsible for completing this work when you were creating your Cost estimate is there are there standards or is there a checklist that you go through that you're thinking that's for accepting roads and When was the last time Amherst accepted a new road? Last street acceptance trying to think It might have been another to Fino development it was off of Snell Street Blanking on the road name. It's a short development right next to the bike path. How many years ago? Moody field probably 2013 or 2015 okay, so is there do you have standards or a checklist for road acceptance? What are you using to do the cost this the Preliminary subdivision plans are what we use they have the details on how thick the pavement supposed to be what the different catch basins and sewer manholes are supposed to look like There's there's certain testing that we perform on the water sewer and drains That that allow you know that they have to pass before we'll accept the utilities But for the most part it's the definitive subdivision plan. Everything is pretty much spelled out on those plans The original yeah, the original subdivision plans So how does that work for a division like subdivision like this? That's you know, we could say 30 years we'll say for most of it 20 years But things like stormwater runoff have changed a lot, you know How does that get implemented in the cost and the performance bond? So this one got sort of retrofitted with newer stormwater standards granted it was permitted 1989 but when they came back they had to meet the new stormwater standards, so there's detention bonds There's stormwater treatment chambers and those are all in place. They just need maintenance That's all so those are in there and they meet the requirements once they've been cleaned and maintained and they're back and we're working order Full working order. I guess I should say so So the definitive these definitive subdivision plans they have all that included They've got the pavement thicknesses the type of curbing and it's all Just from reading the plans you sort of figure out what's what's missing and what's there and what needs to be done And what hasn't been done any other questions from the board? I don't see any. Thank you So Chris you'll follow up with Town council and find out What we can and can't do regarding that performance bond Should we put a date on this? I I don't know how long Would it be two weeks or should we do four weeks? And I know you send an email to mr. Parker, but I assume part of his not communicating is because now lawyers are involved and So you're sort of speaking to his lawyer and yeah It slows things down So I would say Your December 4th meeting is getting full I want to go to the December 18th meeting to talk more about this Does that sound agreeable? Okay, so We'll continue this at the December should we just set a time what do we have on for that night so far Chris? The only thing I'm sure about is that the the chair of the CRC and The assistant town manager would like to come in and talk to you about master plan updating So that they've asked to come and meet with you that night So as far as I know, I think that's the only thing unless other things get Continued miss miss field Sadler. Are you aware of anything else? So what should we put first? CRC or for this Okay, so we could do like a 705 All right, I don't think we have to make a motion, but can we just say December 18th at 705 will meet again Thank you all for coming If you could have continued your meet and greets out there so we can keep going with our meeting would appreciate it Thank you So our next item is number five planning and zoning. We have a zoning subcommittee report Maria I believe you were going up. Sorry good timing Maria chaired this evening. So she'll make the report I did we had a very good discussion a Familiar face showed up mr. Rob crowner. So that was really fun to have a back Janet presented again her inclusionary zoning report and we had a really good discussion with a lot of public people who have been involved in the past at town meetings and Try to get inclusionary zoning past. So it was really a good discussion and we have next steps for that and I presented a sort of the missing middle it's about affordability of housing in Amherst and Provided a lot of ways to unlock different types of housing so that's not just infill but it's sort of Unlocking the ability for more of the community to become active Developers in a way to increase the housing stock in which hopefully will increase affordability of housing stock so we have next steps for that as well and then We're hoping to just keep these as running sort of working items until we figure out a way to Push it forward to the planning board for review and then possibly to town council So we're just keeping these sort of as our homework in a way so that We feel like we can be productive and proactive about certain things So I don't know if anyone else wants to add to how we what we discussed Most of us were there actually. I think it's just Jack and Michael who are not there. I strongly considered it but I Had to make up some time at work. Yeah, you are yes Thank you. Is there a public comment on the zoning subcommittee? Okay I Well She was there other we need to do that old business we're gonna Go with the signing of decisions for the SPR and SPP for Southeast Street You have them are am I the only has the decisions down to you. We have the originals here Ms. Gray mullen needs to sign it in two places and others who voted in the affirmative mean to sign it in one place I Did read them. They're very long and very detailed. Thank you Chris I think you captured the essence and the details so People can go back someday and Know all the good work we did So we will sign that and we're all here for that. Is there any other old business that you all have? We're good. All right new business Item a the FEMA flood mapping project notice of appeal period from November 22 2019 to January 20th 2020 I Believe Chris you have an update for us on that So we have our preliminary maps. We all had an opportunity to look at them quite a while ago I think it might have been June or July Then FEMA, you know took a while to get around to the administrative and process aspect of this so they have finally They have finally sent a letter to the town stating that the appeal period the 90-day appeal period will start on a November 22nd and it will end 90 days later, which I believe is February 20th. So that gives anyone who Doesn't agree with the maps an opportunity to appeal appealing is a serious matter. You you have to hire Technical people engineers etc to prove your case We know of one person who is likely to appeal I don't know of anybody else we're going to Publish something on the town website about this to draw people's attention to it Appeals would come to the planning department and then we would forward them to our Consultant at a comm a e comm and they would Determine whether the appeal had sub had merit or not and then they would forward it to FEMA So as I said, I think we're probably going to get at least one appeal at the end of the appeal period Once all the appeals have been resolved FEMA issues a letter Kind of wrapping things up and then the town has Six months. It's called a six month compliance period and in that six months the town needs to adopt the maps and adopt certain Changes to our zoning bylaw and potentially to our wetlands bylaw To incorporate reference to the maps and we are in the process of exploring exactly what that means I don't know whether it's going to be, you know, three pages or one sentence or what it is But we'll figure that out and we'll let you know and then you'll have an opportunity Both the zoning subcommittee and the planning board will have an opportunity to review that So then once we've put together our new regulations and we have our new apps We'll be bringing them to town council our current plan is that The first town council meeting this is a plan I worked out with Dave Zomek assistant Town manager, so I'm not sure that it's actually been approved by the council but anyway, what we would like to do is make an original or Preliminary presentation to town council to explain to them what this project is all about why we're doing it And what it will get us in the end So that would occur we hope in early January then we would go back to them probably in late January with our Consultant and give them the full technical presentation so they can ask all kinds of technical questions And then sometime later when town council feels comfortable We'd go back to them and ask for a vote and we're hoping that our consultant will be able to come back That night when when town council is voting so hopefully we'll wrap this up by March. That's our goal We'll see how it goes, but we'll we'll work based on that plan Jack I'm just curious about the appeal given that the technical Detail of this and can just anybody Just write in a letter. I mean how does it does appeal have to some have some basis on it before it's really considered The appeal has to have some technical basis. Yes, and Person who's thinking of appealing probably will have Engineers to help them out with the appeal But it is a pretty serious matter. So, you know, you have to be pretty robust in your presentation. Can't just be a letter Any other questions Michael have the maps changed since we saw them in the summer No, the maps have not changed. They're online if you want to look at them And if you have problem getting finding them online, I can tell you how to get there. Okay Thank you So we'll move on to other any Any other topics unanticipated for okay, great Form a and are You do have a form a Let me see what oh a Project that you're very familiar with a mirror McGee. Yeah has two properties And he wants to combine them so he can build his building So I don't know if you need much of an explanation about that. Do you want me to come around with the maps and show you? No, no, no same his just as two lots they're making into one You'll authorize you would have thought it would have been done earlier, but it's it's about yeah You want me to pass around a little map showing Pam went to the trouble of making this beautiful map You look I should pass it around to you We'll look at it Can we keep them So you're gonna authorize Miss Gray Mullen to sign these plans yeah, it just I'm good with it I guess Great. Yeah, it just makes it easier one one plot Great. All right, so ZBA item nine. I haven't learned of anything new since when I told you the last time Great. Thank you Item 10 upcoming SPP SPR sub applications The only one we have is the little canopy that's being put in behind enterprise rent a car So that they can wash cars in the winter time and not be bothered by the snow and ice and everything So that'll be coming to you on December 4th. Oh, that's also December. Oh, was that the little thing you said there? Okay? Okay, thank you 11 planning board committee and liaison reports boy you took you did wasted no time and killing off that parking group Downtown parking working groups are the new tell me the body's not even cold I Thought you asked me to take it off No No one wants an update. No, okay, so I'm Piner Valley Planning Commission Is there an upcoming meeting I don't think I've got an email Usually there's one in December, so I'm like, okay There was gonna be some discussion on the 40 are Bill With regard to the supermajority versus majority and I think they were gonna have a breakout Session on that, but I haven't heard at all. Did anyone go to the Monday? Meeting by a miss clutchman. Okay. She's the person that spoke at the Piner Valley Planning Commission I was doing my parking thing Couldn't go Thank you Michael Community Preservation Act committee CPAC has had two meetings this fall one was basically housekeeping and Editing a piece of the document for requesting proposals. The second one was actually substantive the town has received a grant to in the amount of I believe it's four hundred thousand dollars to Build a playground in Kendrick Park It's part of the long-term Kendrick Park Rehabilitation project the town needs to contribute something around $265,000 I believe was the number to match that four hundred thousand and it had to be done right away because Of the timing of the state grant So the committee approved that even though it was out of order and Totally irregular it seemed like the right thing to do since the timing was essential. So that's part of the the Money that will we'll have we'll other would otherwise have been spent next fall next spring So that's we've got a head start on the spending for next year So it will get built next year No, I believe the design is due on the by the end of June of June 20 And the construction has to be done very quickly. So it presumably will be completed by that time in June 21 So it should be available for most of the summer of 2021 So they still have to put out an RFP and everything to bring a designer on board. I believe so So I know I knew that sorry I knew that this was Prudence This is a nearly seven hundred thousand dollar approval for Children's playground in Kendrick Park. Is that am I understanding? That's correct in in one segment of Kendrick Park There are four segments of Kendrick Park that were allowed on a Plan developed some years ago. Is there going to be a roller coaster there? No, I don't believe so Unless perhaps if you'd care to fund one they might be able to put it in order I mean seven hundred thousand dollars seems like a lot of money doesn't our children's play playground the real Interesting part. I mean Kendrick Park is a beautiful park and don't get me wrong But it's also it's also whatever was called the gateway to UMass. It's a UMass. I mean those kids need to play too I understand but I'm just I'm just I'm just My my head's a lot of money Park can I do you know Chris how much that cost last year just to so we have Park is about one point three million Okay, and that was a water park So when you get water in there that's more but just to put it in perspective It was explained to us that the bulk of the money and the reason for the high price is the fact that Any playground nowadays has to have a rubberized surface woodchips sand Loose dirt is no longer acceptable Any playground meeting ADA requirements has to have a rubberized surface and that's the bulk of the cost For well, I'm gonna be just gonna go with that for a minute because it just seems like too much fun Not to like you set it up, but so is there a requirement that when when That that there's a certain height that somebody has to bounce for that rubberized surface for it to be You know it's sort of suitable Not to buy knowledge Any other questions Chris I just wanted to note that it's possible that the DPW engineering group would do the design for this playground and they would work with Playground equipment distributors and using the 1975 standards. Sorry. No No, they would use my current standard actually but actually part of the use of the existing existing equipment is that if It matches if the playground equipment itself matches the equipment that's in graph park It'll be simpler to maintain because I'll have to keep fewer spare parts I just want to mention the dog part does not cost the town Any money? No rubber just just in case people are worried about these big capital projects that they're coming Chris So I just wanted to reiterate what mr. Burt whistle said which is that we did get a $400,000 grant from the state And the town will be putting in 258,000 or 56,000 something like that and that will be spread over a number of years I think they're considering taking a bar borrowing 10 year loan So it's going to be a kind of a small amount each year just to Sways your fears It's great. It's like it's $25,000 a year for them to pay, right? We'll need another grant for that one David agricultural commission Okay, and michael design review board. Can I jump into the farm committee? I don't Is there any like what are the issues that the farm committee works on because I feel Parry Parry did it before And they they stopped meeting for a long time But they're trying yeah, they didn't have a quorum. So we we actually haven't heard much from them for a couple of years But just on the committees the housing What happened? We don't have an actual housing position there um The reason why greg was sort of listed is because he was a member of Same thing with downtown parking working group. We didn't actually have Yeah, it's yeah Um, I know our list is looking shorter, but why do you want some more committees to join jack? Is there something he can do chris? There's zoning subcommittee. We've been missing you. I'm going to make the next one Maybe I appreciate all the work you guys are doing on that It's heavy lifting. I know it is but it will come here We'll be counting on you and michael to ask the questions to really flush it out and make our stuff even better So your your moment will come zoning subcommittee. We already heard about that. So our report of chair I have nothing report of staff Nothing no, what about dr. B. Did we ask about that? dr. B did we did Mr. Burt whistle. Oh Oh, I thought oh, you're right because we went back to that. Okay. Um design review board I'm delighted to report that I have nothing to report. No. Well, I already knew that Thank you for your fine work. Um Do you want to make a motion for a joint adjournment? Yes, jenna. I actually have a I have an item that chris Um, is there's going to be a meeting on december 9th on the potential 40 r around downtown Is that did you tell me that I just wanted that? Yeah, I think that's the 19th that December 19. Did I send that I sent out a list of upcoming meetings to you? I don't have a copy of it here, but I believe it's December 19th, which is a December 19th But no time was given because I have it in is all day Yeah, it'll probably be in the evening and I don't know if we've chosen a room yet So the recommendation is that this 40 r overlay be like is it all the downtown or Parts of the downtown. Is that been picked out yet? It's most of the downtown It's the bg district and the bl district, but all it is is it's an overlay It provides an opportunity for developers to Develop something it doesn't mean that the entire downtown is going to be rebuilt No, no way does it mean that it means the developer would potentially choose a small location To consider development This has to go through a lot of review before it's Made law if it ever does become law Um, it's going to come to us in a kind of rough format The consultants who are working on it are hoping to wrap up this project They owe us a plan showing where things are going to go What what buildings might be how tall they might be what their massing might be Some form of a form-based code Zoning by-law that would accompany this and then The planning board and well first the zoning subcommittee will have an opportunity to decide whether it's something we want to pursue And then the planning board will have that opportunity and if you decide that it's a good idea You would bring it to town council. So this is really in its early Stages we wanted to be able to explore the idea of 40 r It's been talked about for years, especially at the zoning subcommittee And now we've explored it and we're going to see if it really will work for amherst And we don't know if it will Just I was interested in making sure that the the neighborhoods that could be affected would be notified But we've talked about that too Anything else anyone else? Yes, is there um, so Christine you were way ahead of the game and I only um Was able to read this proposed bill That you had brought to our attention at the last meeting Since then Is there can we I mean and maybe with this already been done. Can we refer this bill to the town council? For there because This is the house. This is 3507 Proposed by baker polito, which is the housing choice initiative Um, because because one of the most dramatic things I think and it is just changing the voting requirements For the approval of zoning amendments related to housing choice initiatives Just put it succinctly and that I would Encourage the town council to begin considering this In this stage so that they're ready for it if this becomes inactive sure and so Do you have um, would the planning board want me to put together a memo? a cover memo for this bill and send it to The town manager and ask him to bring it to town council. Is that how this could go forward? Sure, just as an fyi for them. Yeah And just to respond to And I think that the cover memo just too mindful of the many many many many things that you do chris The cover memo doesn't need to be much more than than the memo. I think that baker Has to this bill which enumerate has a couple of several bullet points and then Change about the Voting requirements for the zoning. So I think that reiterating that is sufficient I would Understand the bill better because I I read the bill and I read the cover letter and I had a bunch of questions So i'm not sure If the bill doesn't pass You know, what does the bill say? What are the implications? I didn't feel like that was I had a real explanation So there must be some at the state level some like blow by blow about what would be changed because there's a lot of changes But I if I mean It may never pass So why would we be sending it to the town council like as a recommendation or fyi because I'd even understand The ramifications of the bill having read through it and I was like, oh, I'd like to know more But I didn't feel like I understood it all And obviously the governor supports the bill, but there must be more to it than then one side So sometimes it takes a bill a couple or a few times to go through and it's already been tried a couple of times So this is sort of like his third effort at it and what's different this time is it has bipartisan Buy-in on it So Where it's at i'm not sure, but I actually requested a meeting with Representative dom and i'm meeting with her before our next meeting to find out what's happening with it So I'm just wondering Is the planning board supporting this bill? I mean, I don't feel like I could take a position without understanding it And I don't I don't think it's I I'm not about taking I don't want the memo to I just want them to be aware that this is Um I just think it's I mean, I just wonder if the councils will read this and have the same question It's just it's a pretty dense bill. And so I just didn't I read it and thought this is really interesting I don't really understand How much this would cover there's a whole thing where you can have The voting more crime it's not changed for certain things if you do something else and I was just like, okay now I'm getting really lost and It's sort of it's only that if it did pass Then that would be law You know and some of the efforts that we've been working on would no longer be needed Would the memo that I would write on your behalf be more to the point of we just wanted to bring this to your attention That's what I was thinking Jack so christine you sound like You're you're on this but I know the piner valley planning commission will have additional discussion on it I took notes from the last one and I thought we would talk about it So I guess after you talk with me and I can recheck my nose. Maybe something will happen with the piner valley planning commission and then But I thought there was some interesting rationale that it would be good for us to To talk about Chris Do you want to have another discussion at the planning board level after um christine gray mullin speaks with mindy dom and then Send it to the town council. Yeah, does that make sense? Sure So because if you go to the massachusetts, you know what said i'm talking about chris where you can track the bills Dot gov. I don't know if you guys ever go there. I have a tracker on for this one But anyways, it hasn't really been updated since last Last summer but a lot of the bills aren't so I don't know if they're just not keeping up It says it goes to so it was usually it goes to house committee for study because then kind of like our zoning subcommittee And then they bring it to the to the house But what did happen is they decided to send it to both at the same time the house and the senate So it's supposedly in study in both of them So I was hoping that she might be able to um Because I know they're they're moving on bills now so So I will let you know if I know more and you can watch on the website But like I said, there wasn't anything updated. Yeah, so do we want to put it on the agenda for the fourth or the 18th? Yeah, let's do the 18th. Yeah, we've got a lot on the fourth Yeah, maria. Did you ever have that meeting with david somack and Lynn and someone else and someone else? Yes, um, yes someone else it was um Paul David The town manager the assistant town manager the president of the council the president of the crc Chris best of director of planning and myself um It was a lot about Planning and prioritizing but bigger than So it they're talking about the master plan And they're talking about like recodification or updating the zoning bylaws so a lot of their talk was um about workloads for town staff And the council and there seemed to be more thought that has to go into that because they both have to go off and look at their workloads Because there's just too much to do and not enough time and not enough people Um, I of course I was of the also cautious of that because I don't want us to drown and I have to make sure we have to make sure that Planning department has enough bandwidth to be able to help us But um, they were very understanding that they know that it's a lot for us and it will put a big Redoing the master plan and the plan redoing the zoning bylaw Fixing it updating it recodification. Are we are we doing that? Is that the planning board? Who's I mean who's deciding that Chris can yet So in terms of the master plan, um, the crc and the town council the town council has referred The master plan to the planning board and the crc For study for um, what they're hoping is going to be An update Um, they're hoping it's not going to be a heavy update that it's going to just add things having to do with resiliency climate change Sustainability, um, you know, probably affordable housing Something about the change in demographics that we've experienced in the last 10 years just to bring it up to Date where we are now because the master plan was really written sometime between 2005 and 2010 The town council isn't expecting that the master plan is going to be redone until probably 2030 So this is kind of an interim update So they're asking the planning board and the crc to work together with staff To figure out exactly what we want to do with the master plan I have some ideas about things that we need to Infuse throughout the master plan or things that we need to you know bullet point put in various sections I've actually started a little list Which I can share with you So as I said before, uh, mandy joe hannacky and dave zomek would like to come and speak with you on the 18th To talk about this in addition to that. Um, there's a plan afoot to Re redo the zoning bylaw in its entirety and the project would probably take a year And it may or may not include all of the things that are on the planning boards list wishlist It will include a lot of those things. It will also include Fixing a lot of the things that are wrong with the bylaw fixing things where it's Conflicting there are many places where one thing conflicts with another if you read the parking Section for instance or the science section So that effort would be to try to just get it all cleaned up put as many amendments into it as we can And some of the things are going to be too big for that project and we'll have to leave them on the shelf for a while but that is the desire of Town council that we would work on the master plan and work on zoning over the course of the next year so Hopefully you will be on board with that and Enthusiastic just to add they the year A year and a half was very important to them because they're elected Counselors and they really want this to be one of their wins something that happens In case this term that they're in one third Like it's a three year for the first time so they have that extra year So they really want to as they I've heard them say they really want to get something substantial done So Janet so I have little pieces of the puzzle I talked to my two district counselors who said they've been waiting for zoning changes and they're eager to do them And then I went to the CRC meeting where they were talking about this and It looked like they were really looking to the planning board for direction on the master plan and They weren't they're not really decided yet about how much they wanted to undertake as the CRC But and then Dave Zomek was talking about like a list of changes But it was seemed like a really long list kind of what you started to sort of you know what you were saying and so Since the planning board is legally by the state statute sort of in charge of master plans and has done that and so I think we should think about our role in that and It just seems like these discussions are all kind of percolating But it'd be great to have the planning board Sort of part of the whole thing and figure out what we can do. You know, I mean the the year in a timeline may not be We don't really have to I guess we do have terms but to think about like If you're you know updating the master plan revising it We're supposed to be doing this every five or ten years and it's been almost ten And so do we want to involve the public and you know, we've talked about this at the zoning subcommittee too So I just want to put those pieces in there So I I think what you just said is exactly what's happening It's percolating and they're trying to come up with the plan and it's the You know the town manager and the department heads and the president of the town council and the and the chair of the CRC and they that's why they asked me to be there and that's so they're trying to come up with the plan and and That's why they're coming to us on the 18th And I mean the public of course will be involved as soon as the actual work starts But right now it's just sort of like the pre-plan like what is the scope of work? And once the scope of work starts then We'll be doing is what the town council has also been clear. They want a A revision of the master plan not a redo so but you know the specifics of that still has to be sort of spelled out So Which would be us? Yeah, I guess the point is I think that We should think about ourselves as our we're an independent board and what our role is in that And so I'm interested in this process and the idea of it, but I just wonder We're a separate committee Or a board and so Missing something. Yeah, I think the point is we would like do the work with planning board or and then We approve it and then this would it would go to town council for their approval. So that's why they want to be involved too David and then chris I will be deliberately a little bit provocative Okay While I understand that the change in the governance is confusing And there's a lot of work the change in the governance from as a result of the charter And tell me is and there's a lot of work to be done to hopefully not fully reinvent the wheel, but really it seems to me that My sense is for the past year. We've received really conflicting messages from the town council Whoever else has been sending and I agree with Janet I think that we should and this is what I was trying to what I was advocating for Last time at the zoning subcommittee um that we should Set our own work plan And and just keep on and that's what and that's was the idea with the sending them the the proposed bill just You've got to start thinking about this stuff And begin to form you know and not just you know be pre-planning this stuff But but this is the act of governance and if you can't do it then we need The different representatives or different form But we need but I think that we should be we as the planning board Should be moving forward There it's very complicated it's very Weedy very detail detail and and and continue to just push things to work Push things to them so that they respond because otherwise we're going to continue to spin wheels here I think for more and more time while they're waiting for a big win We have no direction from them. We need to start thinking about what our priorities are And let's setting out the issues for them to consider That we can't act on chris I think that with regard to the master plan the town council needs to do something with the master plan The charter calls on them to adopt the master plan and they're looking at a master plan that was Signed and adopted by the planning board in 2010, but it was really written over a period of you know 2008 to 2010 So they want to they don't want to adopt the master plan exactly as it is They want to make sure that it includes things that everybody cares about now like climate change like sustainability like Energy conservation and all of those things that we probably weren't focused on as much back in 2008 or 2010 So they're looking for your help to bring the master plan up to date That's the term that they've been using is update the master plan not change it now throw it out and start over They just want to update it so they can be able to comfortably adopt it according to the charter Well, then really if the town council has specific has updates that they're they I really think that instead of mind reading what those are We should know what what areas that they're thinking of And we're and how to proceed and where the funding is for for that whether they're expecting that to be our time your time or whether a consultant like the master plan process was before You know contracted out so that I mean the town council I'm finding to be really Um Just They're they're not we they are not sort of Being responsive. I think to the planning board needs I think they think that they're being responsive by Making sure that you are in the know up to date You know that you at this point, you know, it's taken them a while to get here But now that they have kind of realized what needs to be done They're reaching out to you and saying oh the master plan is the planning board's baby. We need to help And ask the man ask the planning board to work with us to update the master plan. It's their Their task. It's their body And and that's what they're doing. They're reaching out to you and saying Here this needs to be updated. We want to adopt it, but we don't want to adopt it the way it is But hopefully you will Updated enough and they will give us Their opinion about what should be included and what should be updated. They've started to do that through Dave Zomek and through the crc and they what they're hoping is that By working with the crc the crc will report to the town council and by the time this actually gets to town council The crc will be totally on board with it and they'll be able to Talk to the town council and get them to adopt what you have come up with And that's why they're coming on the 18th to start this process. Exactly. I would suggest everyone Read that master plan again And this time when you read it your next um No areas that especially on sustainability and that kind of thing like oh, this is an area that's gonna need to be updated first jack and then janet So do we anticipate that We'll have some sort of ad hoc committee Amongst us to address this because I don't think this is the we can't really do anything During regular planning subcommittee No, because I'm not a part of that well But it would still come through us, but I think as this gets um gelled out It will become apparent whether or not like a consultant is needed or a designated staff member You know, I think it's we want the town council to sign off on the master plan I think I don't even think they've really read it close enough to realize how much They're all saying they want to keep it to a minimum, but you know how it goes, you know, but Once that like I said the scope of work and the amount of work that needs to be updated Then I think chris will be able to have better suggestions So I've been to the lot of crc meetings and I I have to say that um I mean the meeting today was very inconclusive about what how they wanted to proceed Which is a lot of crc meetings are inconclusive, but I think what i'm hearing is that the head of the town council The head of town government Are talking about the planning board revising the entire zoning by-law And doing a master plan in the next year or so entire in time for reelection for the town council and I just think I mean when you talk about things gelling is like I think That's a really heavy lift for the board and we should decide whether what we think we want to do It's just the idea of revising the entire zoning by-law I mean we've been the zoning subcommittee We've been working on all sorts of different things and talking about stuff and also Are The idea that we're going to be revising the entire by-law in the next year Plus the master plan just seems sort of It's sort of it's sort of hard to understand seems overwhelming. It doesn't seem overwhelming It is overwhelming and it would take staff time and also, you know a lot of our time and I'm glad you were invited to that meeting to talk about that, but I think this is something we really have to think about as a board I I think the master plan is is the thought of do it first. They want that done in a few months We don't do it We help guide staff. This is why the discussions are with them mostly right now because they do the heavy lifting They would be you know, and if Chris feels the need then they need to go hire a consultant But it they haven't figured out how much lifting there is to do That's what I'm saying is the discussion. So They're very aware that it has to come to us But we won't do the heavy lifting on that same thing with the recodification It sounds like a lot of the changes are driven By the building commissioner and he's done this before and he knows certain things that he needs to get fixed And then I think it would be zoning subcommittee and the planning board that are like So what are the other issues we want to put into that scope? So just I want to say david I don't think any of our work. We're doing right now will Will not be worth anything. I think No, but I'm just saying I think we're doing good works that will possibly be included in that And I also think again a consultant if it's too much I mean, they're just trying to they want to get something done and and I'm happy for that because you're right The town council they had to come up to speed or you know, we're waiting and waiting and they're overwhelmed They have so many things to do But they seem to be taking these two efforts very seriously, which I'm glad about terrified that it will be Too much work, but You know, I think chris will cry ugg before we do because that's where the heavy lifting is going to happen But it's more comes. I mean it was a very Pre-talk in that meeting. I mean they were really just feeling out resources and trying to figure out how much work This is going to be and when they would realistically like to get it done and town council They're just trying to say that, you know, I think where I wouldn't want to see it either It's about bringing them education and bringing them up to speed and then if we brought them up to speed And then they were voted out or decided not to run again That would make me sad because as we were talking about inclusionary zoning and all these zone You know, we we don't want to we want to get it done before the people who have come up to speed leave So I think there'll be more to report really soon Um But they are coming on the 18th. So that means You know, they're trying to move on it so um Yeah chris So I think it would be a really good idea Even if you don't read the whole master plan cover to cover You know thumb through it and see what just sort of remind yourself of what's in it I took a stab at creating a list of things that I thought needed to be updated the other day And I actually came up with more things than I expected to So Yeah, so I think it is going to be a lot of work But we'll chip away at it bit by bit and if we all work together on it, I think we'll get there Could could we get you know, I've heard people ask for this several times at crc and I think our Chalene Balmille asked about it Like is there a way to get like a matrix of You know, there's a whole 14 pages of strategies like what was done what wasn't done and putting it I mean, I hate to say the you know the word excel She but um a way of taking that chart and like running a column or two about what was done You know not like completed but these things were done because obviously more than one thing that could be done under different items Because that I think the crc was really having trouble Seeing that whole picture and then it came up at the master plan forum. Yeah. Yeah So I have trouble with that myself because I've presented the master plan to the crc And when I started going through it, I realized oh Some of these things have been partially done or they've been done You know some of it has been done and we've decided not to do the other part So it's going to be hard to describe it in a matrix in that way And some of the things are ongoing that we're going to continue to do forever so We can try to put it into a matrix, but I think it's going to be challenging When I read through it, I mostly just read the titles like the section And not didn't get into the the narrative But that's one way that could be marked up those You know like either struck or highlighted or a parentheses adding more David Chris actually, can you send a oh, I apologize for this Your presentation that you did I I don't know whether it was to the town's council or crc A few weeks ago on the master plan that did really kind of that was a really great summary of a lot of it If that link could be Tell your content provider Sorry So it just We want work. We want to do good work, but we don't want to be Overworked either. I hear you So hopefully there'll be more to report back on on the fourth and then they'll crc will come on the 18th Anything else because I told janet would be done at 9 15 and I see there's only two minutes left Are we going to go home and watch the debates Summary in the morning Anything else anyone have anything I think for some of these documents. I don't know how the zoning subcommittee is is working with editing, but there's some The technology's there for people working in a document together and that would be I That's how I do my work this day and age versus scribbling in the margins and stuff like that If that is a step that people willing to take I would be in favor of Of for for like that. Yeah, you use google docs or or office 365 Yeah, yeah We could come up with in zoning some maybe some rule like what we're you know, like you strike it It says who struck it or highlight it or Um, we could do that because the current one is in pdf, right? online Yeah Yeah, because I would like the word document anyways for going through it because going through the pdf I'm like It was too big to bring an evernote and I didn't want to start printing pages I would appreciate a word And one with the permissions off because usually when you guys send them I know it's just your municipality thing. Everything's like document control like When jeff sends me word. I'm always like I can't I can't get into it Yeah, yeah enable you could put a draft that's or not the word draft, but Maybe draft put like a watermark across it draft and then and unlock it Okay 915 janet Can I have a motion to close this gig? Okay, all in favor great. Thank you. Thank you. Amherst media