So welcome everyone to the wards one and eight neighborhood planning assembly or NPA meeting I'm Cindy cook, and I'll be trying to keep us on on track and on schedule And I'd like to just have people introduce themselves. So can you Take it away live and we'll get back to you Jonathan. Yeah Hi everyone, my name is Yeah, I live in Ward one and I'm also a member of the steering committee Also wanted to share that councilor roof will be attending tonight, but he said he is coming from work I'm Carol Livingston. I'm also on the steering committee And I live in Ward one I'm Keith Pillsbury. I live in university Live at University Terrace, and I'm the ward eight school commissioner. I'm Angie chap so call I live on North Prospect Street, and I have no official position I'm Karen long I am on the steering committee. Hi. Good evening. Um, this is not can people here It doesn't sound like it's working This one's working hi good evening, I'm Sharon busher I'm city councilor for Ward one And I live on East Avenue. Hi, I'm Jack Hansen. I'm the East District City Councilor. I live on Pearl Street Hi, I'm Holly Shaynor McCrae. I live on Mansfield Ave Glenn McCrae Mansfield Ave Bill Church Ward 1 Bradley Street He lives in Ward 8 I'm and brand new Ward 8 and I live with him we're in the say Ward Tom Derenthal Nash place Pat Seelen I'm a Nash place which is in the old East End And I'm Dave Colley. I'm Also Ward one and active member of the old East End neighborhood coalition Hi, I'm Lisa Kingsbury. I'm with UVM planning design and construction I'm Tom Hire with bitters and hire Excuse me working with UVM on housing master plan Hi, Joe Spidell from UVM and community relations Gail Shampnoy at UVM office of student and community relations Martha Lang Colchester Avenue Ward 1 Hi, pick your money van with Cito Jonathan Chapel so called Ward 1 steering committee Richard Hill yard Ward 1 high growth court Michael on Ward 1 Hannah King Ward 8 and I was steering committee member Grace Pacino Ward 8 Laura Wheelock with DPW So welcome everyone. Oh and last but definitely not least Cyril Cyril Ward 1 Okay, so let me just run through the agenda really quickly We're going to have interest we did the introductions We're going to speak out which is a chance to make announcements and And speak to any issues that you want others to be aware The problems We've got some some some committees to talk about populating then we're going to do the We're going to have a conversation about the UVM housing study Updates from the our legislators discussion with DPW about East Avenue safety and sidewalk Issues that we talked about several months ago and our city council are still going to speak So I'm going to try to keep things on schedule, but also Make sure that we have a chance to discuss stuff. So it's a challenge and I'd appreciate your help with that. So let's start with Jonathan. Could you speak to the? The representative to the Colchester and East Avenue committee and also to the Community development block grant stuff Good evening again Let me start with the Colchester amps study project and I'm going to read you Essentially what was a note from Nicole loge on this on this? This study she writes as many of you know We have been working with the neighborhood for improvements along Colchester Avenue Our next project is scoping or a planning study for safety and mobility along the corridor With particular focus on the east have intersection bike accommodations and parking options We'd like to invite ward 1 to employ to appoint one representative and one alternate to participate in the advisory committee for this study And then if possible could we do it by last month, but she sent this earlier, so in fairness to her The same will pick kick off with a public meeting in the first week of December So that happened and many of you were there I think soon afterwards We'll hold our first advisory committee meeting for those of you who have participated in scoping studies before the sequence is reversed from our Typical meeting schedule we're planning to hold the public meeting before the advisory committee meeting so that we can solicit concerns of the public Summarize the issues for you and have a detailed first meeting Of course everyone's welcome to participate in all the meetings Advisory committee will commitment will be for three committee meetings over the course of the study, which is through the spring so there'd be three three meetings over the spring and That committee members should solicit feedback from the constituencies So it would be great for whoever wants to be on the committee They come back to this meeting and maybe during the public forum and speak out Talk about a little bit about what they've learned since the last meeting and what they might like to know from us So that's the that's the Colchester F scoping study Let's go ahead and get Yeah, so I think that you were suggesting that we try to find a representative today tonight It's already going on so we want to make sure that at the at the first committee meeting there's we're populated So is anybody here interested in serving on that committee? Yeah, could you speak to that just briefly your name and We'll talk loud perfect I'm Dave quality. I live on Nash place Can you use the mic even though you don't may not be able to hear it? I live on Nash place And I did go to the meeting last Monday a week ago Monday that you know was was our Wednesday I think it was for this committee I'm excited about this project because I've lived in the neighborhood for 28 years I've seen some of the improvements on Colchester Avenue and there's still more to be done In fact, we spent about an hour and a half talking about the safety issues that still occur You know up and down Colchester Avenue My background is that I have some engineering in my background I worked at from on energy investment corporation for 30 years and in that capacity We did a lot of work with engineering studies technical potential of energy efficiency that sort of thing So I'm familiar with doing technical studies So I'm I'm excited to you know participate in this committee I can spend time and look to report back to this group on Activities and get ideas and input about what else we could be doing to help the neighborhood. So thanks Dave Are other people interested in being considered for this committee? No, so are you ready to close nominations and vote? Okay, so all in favor of What's that? Oh, yes, so we're looking for an alternate as well start with a member and then okay Okay, so there are no other candidates here, so All in favor of Dave as as a There's our representative for Ward 1. So this is a vote of Ward 1 folks You opposed? Okay, so congratulations Dave. So is anybody interested in serving us an alternate? Richard great. Could you say a few words Richard? Very very quickly. I've participated on the as a Ward 1 representative on about three or four of these advisory committees. It was a very very good meeting last Wednesday Dave will be a great nominee for For our representative and if he needs an alternate, I will be glad to fill the bill Thanks, Richard any other interested parties? So is it the pleasure of the Ward 1 folks here tonight to have Richard be the the alternate I'm seeing nods, so I'm going to Not go with Richard's rules here because I don't think we need them. Yeah, okay So we're going to move on to the community development block grant and back to to Jonathan All right, I just have a very little bit to read about this and I can describe it I'm the previous Representative from Ward 1 on the advisory committee so I can tell you a little bit about it or you can ask Me questions But I'll read this this is off the CEDO page on the community development block grant And I'm going to say it one more time and then I'm just going to use the initials community development block grant CDBG And that's what you'll hear everybody saying it is The federal community development block grant or CDBG program is a principal revenue source for local communities to address the roots and consequences of poverty The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development administers the program on a national basis and awards grants annually to entitlement communities including Burlington on a formula basis The city turn intern awards grants to local organizations as well as operate several CDBG funded programs So in a nutshell what happens is that is that the federal? the federal government gives money for housing and they give it in the form of block grants and in the state of Vermont there are there are two block grants one goes to Burlington and one goes to everybody else So we're actually really lucky about this. I mean the reason for it is that we have a lot of problems But there are other communities that do too but but Burlington gets to decide how that block grant is is spent and one of the wonderful one of the many wonderful things about Burlington is that Burlington had Burlington has instituted an advisory committee to decide how that money is spent and so citizens Get to sit and make a decision about how the block grant money from HUD is distributed in the community And that's rare Sharon right. I mean this may be the One of the only places in the country that does this And and the way the process works is that is that folks apply for grant money And there's really two different kinds of money that are given there is There is public service money and that's that's really what it sounds like. So these would be it might be Not necessarily ongoing costs to an agency, but something that the agency does To provide service to the community so some examples that have that have come in the past are things like Organizations that provide free tax writing services to to the public And they may want funding for that There's very little money that goes to public service most of the money goes to the other half which is development And that's the real point of the HUD money the real crux of the hun bunny is to is to build affordable housing to remove blight in a community And so most of the money goes in that direction And those projects or projects you've you've probably seen all over the place the old north end redevelopment the the St. Joseph's that was funded with CDBG money It was supported with CDBG CDBG money. There's plenty of money from other places, too The affordable housing and the senior housing over in Cambrian rise is being supported with CDBG money right now And so those are the kinds of big projects and that's where most of the money really ends up But the but what happens is that a group of people there's somebody from every ward and then there are mayor mayoral appointees and Jane homesteader from the state is on the committee and there may be one or two others and And this the committee scores the applications and a lot of the scoring has to do with whether the applications are properly filled out To be honest, it's a kind of a pathetic thing, but very often the applications are poorly done the committee scores the applications and then the committee discusses how to how to distribute the money And there's generally a discussion whether you distribute the money Kind of spread it out like peanut butter or whether you just say a couple of these programs really don't Reach some level of merit to get money and then that makes it more possible to fund others Whatever it is and however the committee works it out those recommendations go to the city council to the mayor and they and they They get implemented So it's a it's a really interesting Process it's a great committee to be on because you learn a lot about The services and programs that are going on in the city Sharon looks like you have something to say Yeah, I did because you you touched upon something. This is one committee where really the citizens are empowered For a while the citizen advisory group Existed but then those recommendations went to the mayor who could tinker with them and then the council could further tinker with them And so that really took away the enthusiasm from the advisory citizen advisory group because they felt that Their input was being devalued and so I don't know how many years ago There was a decision made that if we we Feel like the citizens of this community really know what the needs are and therefore if we May if we created this advisory group we should respect their recommendations and not alter them And so that has been the practice before so it's really important that people understand this is empowering and Important and it's not easy because there's so much need and so little money It's it's getting smaller and smaller and smaller and so I just want to just speak to the process and the value that everybody That agrees to represent us will have in this process. So, thank you Thanks, Sharon, and it is and it was a it was a fantastic. It really was a fantastic experience I would recommend it to anybody who's vaguely interested It's a meeting a month from January to April and the April meeting is typically Not necessary And there's free food and you get to meet people from across the city other other people from the every all the different wards And it's it's great The CDBG the HUD money is It's a hundred to a hundred fifty thousand dollars for public service and it's maybe three times that for For development. It's half a million dollars or so it kind of depends because CEDO takes a certain fraction of it for projects that CEDO is working on and so it's not the same every year But it's something like a hundred it was last year Maybe it was a hundred and a quarter for public service and it was three or four hundred thousand for for development so it's half a million dollars and you typically get a million dollars or more in requests so Generally, there's twice as many twice as much request as there is money to serve so there's real decisions to make Okay, so so we're telling you about this now because in at our January meeting We're going to be electing representatives for both awards one and eight and we just wanted you here the folks that are watching on The television to be aware of this and if you're interested Please let us know at the January meeting. We'll be voting on on Reps for wards one and one award in Ward 8. I'm sorry. I'm taking so much time But it just if you're in Ward 8 you want to learn a little bit more about it I'm happy to talk about but Gabrielle Sealy was the rep the last two years so you could talk to Gabrielle about it, too Okay, so one last thing and then we'll have you I give you an opportunity to make announcements We've been we the steering committee for the NPA have been talking about How we might use the the budget because with this year we now have have a nice funding thank you city councillors for for making that possible and We're looking at a number of possibilities and somebody who's been more involved in those conversations So I would love to have you speak to it briefly of the things that we're thinking about Karen, can you hi summit well one is the monthly Food we're bringing you know more appetizer, you know finger food stuff We started with more like just grocery store crackers and cheese the last two times who've splurged city market did an amazing job So please help yourself with Sushi and these little pinwheel wraps So that's part of the money We've talked about both Ward 1 and Ward 8 want to do some kind of like an event like a block party Neighborhood type thing We've also talked about well, we've talked about mics But I think we can work that out with Sarah because this is really nice. Sometimes we can't hear each other and This one's working really good. It's not screaming Over some of the other things Okay so one other thing that we talked about is the way that we advertise our meetings and I think one of our Most one of our most major ways is front porch forum So one thing that we discussed was a donation to them because it I don't know what we would do without front porch forum So if people have thoughts ideas Recommendations as to how we use this money. We'd appreciate that. This is just a quick conversation now But we're going to be as a steering committee Putting something together and bring you back to you in the next month or two Just just a quick question. What about live streaming? I know we've talked about that before and is that going to happen city-wide or does that have to come out of the individual NPA budgets It we it may or may not cost us anything the the medical center, which has been gracious enough to provide this the space gratis over the years is looking into it and there's some security issues and There they have a couple things that they need to resolve and I'm not really clear what those are But they they're aware that we would love to the live stream So that folks like you that are watching us now could can be actively engaged In the moment in real time so just in the interest of ensuring that we're allocating this money or Ultimately would be allocating this money in the essence of its intent Can you please explain to us the criteria that was defined to the dissemination of the funds? I'm just trying to understand what qualified us to receive this money. What are the conditions under which a Community is receiving this money Yeah, great question. And we we haven't we don't have a budget yet. We're just The federal government It's it's city money Yeah, this is it's city council money The city council had a discussion based on the the All the board steering committee saying that The budget the initiative the existing budget was was really so minuscule that really no one could do anything with it All you didn't have enough dollars to provide any kind of Amenities or expand the number of people so no, this is not the block grant. This is the NPA Okay, so sorry, this is the NPA budget that they would talk about Yeah, and if you could have a conversation with with Jonathan about that offline that would be great Yeah, I think yeah, we switched gears and so we're talking about the NPA budget So each NPA has twenty five hundred dollars a year and so we're going to shift now to brief announcements and I think Keith That's okay I just wanted to make sure that everybody is aware that the Burlington High School construction project oversight committee meets regularly on a monthly well They meet weekly, but then they have a regular Monthly update at Burlington High School on the third Thursday Which is next Thursday the 19th of December from 5 30 to 7 that is where all the information What's going on with with the architects and the Construction people have been working on and we they report out to this oversight committee Thanks Keith other announcements. Yeah, I Can try this yeah, yeah, and speak up because it doesn't it doesn't amplify in the room As most of you are aware India House has closed and As a neighborhood We are trying to figure out well what we can attract to go in there that would satisfy a lot of us So we've developed Dave and I have developed a survey on That we've posted on front porch forum It'll be open till December 20th So please go to front porch forum. It is the December 10th issues 2575 to find the link to the survey You can it's takes five minutes to say what do you want? Do you want a restaurant? Do you want a gymnasium? What would you like and then Dave's going to compile all of that and report back via front porch forum? And to our neighborhood to our meeting great Thanks for doing that and could you say your name so that folks in the on TV can know who to contact if they if they're not Active online. My name is Patricia Celand. S E E L A N. Thank you, Patricia. Thank you. Are there other announcements? Okay, great Carol yeah AARP is running a Candidate forum on February 12th, which is a Wednesday and our city council candidates for our awards will be Presenting their viewpoints that falls on the same Wednesday that we normally meet So our steering committee will figure out what to do, but we've looked to see if we can change it That's not possible and we really want to support on this event and this works We really wanted to have you all know right now that this is happening. It's February 12th Which is a Wednesday. It's at the YMCA Not sure what time But we will post something on front porch forum and really urge you to go 676 to 7 6 to 7 30, okay Thanks girl. Yeah Maybe I got this maybe I'll get this one on time So I just wanted to alert you to the the exhibit that's at the Fletcher free library right now That's the 1619 exhibit that came in from Hampton, Virginia And just a little bit about it the the racial justice alliance in conjunction with the folks over at Fletcher brought the exhibit in The the exhibit itself is going to be there until The end of the day on Sunday. So there's a closing commemoration ceremony the first Africans traveling exhibit that the true narrative about the history of Africans in the United States enables us to better understand who we are as a nation It's only through this understanding that we're able to set right our path and build hope and promise for a collective future For our children. So you can check out check this out. Just go over to four hundred H 400 YAAH CVT that's 400 year African American history console our Commission Vermont 400 YAAH CVT.com Slash support if you want to get behind that and also just give me a shout if you want to get some more information you can Find me an info at justice for all VT.org or else 5 3 2 30 30 5 3 2 30 30. Thanks And you're going to leave some of those at the front table Okay, thanks thanks Through this Sunday is the exhibit It's there now. Thanks. So next up is Lisa Kingsbury and Yeah, yeah for the survey monkey is W. And this is about the Indian House, right? This is about the Indian House survey. We've already had over 50 responses. Yeah, it's really cool It's www.surveymonkey.com front slash capital N capital F 9 x 6 j 9 December 10th issue, right? Thanks. Okay, so next up the folks from UVM Lisa Kingsbury and Tom Hiles that yeah We're going to speak to the housing study that they've done. So welcome. Thank you Hi, I'm Lisa Kingsbury and Sorry Not sure where it should be Okay Over here, is this better? Yes. Okay. Sorry about that. So I'm Lisa Kingsbury. I'm with UVM planning design and construction I'm just going to give a brief introduction and turn it over to our consultant Tom Hire Tom is a consultant out of based out of Washington, DC He does a lot of work nationally and he did our housing master plan in 2015 I was here a couple of months ago talking about the work He had done then and some of the changes that we've had on campus and in terms of our housing for graduate students And the reasons that we brought Tom back to do an update So we're here tonight to talk to you about Tom's findings on the research in terms of what? undergraduate students specifically juniors and seniors and graduate and medical students are interested in in terms of more housing We've also we met with CEDO this afternoon and then after the winter break Tom will be coming back We want to give him a chance to also talk to the undergraduate students and talk to the graduate students and medical students Talk to our neighbors in Ward 6 and I understand the council may be interested in us coming to do a presentation there as well So we're trying to get out have Tom Give his findings to give the community a time and students a time to kind of respond back to some of the issues And we'll keep this going as a process and keep the community informed as we move forward. So with that turn it over to Tom Thank you very much. I'm pleased to be here this evening What I'd like to do is to review for you Though some of the work that we've been doing We actually some of you may know we did the original housing master plan around 2015 for the university and Because of some things that had changed the university that asked us to come back and do some updates First of all, you may be aware that Central Campus was rebuilt The old housing was torn down and new housing for first-year students was was built They've also implemented learning communities, which is a slightly different programmatic approach to on campus residential life then was In existence at the time of the that we did the original master plan And then also the sale of Fort Ethan Allen, which had been a graduate housing area Had obviously eliminated a lot of housing for graduate students So the charge for us was to update the master plan and particularly to update our housing demand analyses For at the for both the undergraduate and the graduate populations We did a series of student focus groups and we also did a survey of students to Get their viewpoints on housing on on interest in living on campus off campus, etc We also updated our local market information so that we could have a good sense of what was going on in the local market in terms of rents And then we did do demand analyses and we focus those on juniors and seniors and the graduate and medical populations Freshmen and sophomores are required to live on campus. So there was no need to do a demand analysis for them so we'll start with juniors and seniors and One of the things we explored with them is you know What was their preference in terms of where they like to live on campus or off campus? And we posed some very specific questions and one of the questions was specifically, you know What's your preference for living on or off the big red part of the pie there? 71% of the respondents The response that was checked was my preference is to move off campus as soon as I am no longer required to live on campus I would not consider living on campus as a junior or senior under any circumstances So there's a very large part of the population that really does not have a lot of interest in living on campus And this is very consistent with what we see nationally Typically for a state institution, they will house their first-year students Some will house some portion of their second year their sophomore students and then as people as students become juniors and seniors Then more and more they live off campus. Do you have a question? Of that 71% but I'm wondering how how much cost is a factor. Did you? Yes So so that was part of that was one part of the response the gray part of the pie there, which is 8% Was my preference is to remain on campus during junior year But to move off campus in senior year and then the blue part is 21% and the response there was I would be interested in living On campus throughout my UVM undergraduate experience if housing were available to my liking and that's an important element Because we'll talk about what juniors and seniors are looking for by way of housing and as we actually have listed some of the things here Their actual interest is in living primarily in area of the area between the campus and downtown They're looking for more independence space and privacy than campus housing and that really just goes to The type of housing you know Wanting to live in an apartment versus a residence hall Wanting to have more freedom from the meal plan and some of the housing and RA policies and things like that Very typical and very natural for students as they get older and they get developmentally more independent Seeking a more home-like environment same sort of thing Wanting to cook and and not have to necessarily deal with the meal plan on campus So we also ask you know What are the things that we might be able to do to you know attract you back to campus housing? What things could increase the appeal of living on campus? They did say make housing more affordable Students perceive that how off-campus housing is going to be less costly and in some cases It is is particularly if they you know live several students to a unit and they can drive the cost down that way But as we'll talk about in just a moment the perception and the reality aren't necessarily the same And I believe actually based on what we've heard from students and from the survey work that cost is Just one factor, but the bigger factors really really relate to this notion of As I as a junior senior I really want to be in a more in more dependent. Thank you more independent living situation It's if the culture is to actually move off campus And again the attraction is to be near campus, but also near downtown because that's where their social life is They're also looking if there were more singles or more apartment style housing That would also be an attractor and they're looking for even under campus housing a more independent living situation and a Good example. This is redstone lofts, which is on the university property, but it's managed independently by a third party and it has much fewer rules many fewer regulations than than campus housing and that's attractive to some part of the population But I think geography is the biggest issue wanting to be near downtown and near campus not squarely on campus or not tucked away in the rear portion of campus where Redstone lofts is so we did actually ask a lot about cost and we did so a lot of exploration of on versus off campus and While there are certainly there are examples of on campus housing that are cheaper than off and there are examples of off campus Housing that are cheaper than on campus Well, one of the things that we tried to do was to create at least somewhat of an apples to apples comparison of What a true cost would be so these are just a couple of examples and The title there says average all-in annual cost of selected on and off campus units I need to clarify right up front that when we talk about the annual cost for the on-campus housing We're talking about a nine month cost because that's what is available on campus and for the off campus housing We're talking about a 12 month cost because most of the leases that exist off campus are 12 month leases And so if you are a student who's only going to be here for nine months And you're living off campus Your option is really either to sublet over the summer or to pay your rent over the summer if you can't sublet and Students tell us that there's not a robust subletting market here. So there can be You can actually end up paying that full amount So one comparison is a university suite double occupancy versus a local market three bedroom apartment Double occupancy means there are two people in a bedroom now That's not ideal for a junior or senior, but some people are willing to do that To save some money and if you're willing to do that the cost between a suite on campus and the local market three bedroom Off-campus is of just a couple hundred dollars. I should also say that by making this all in what we've done is we've also added in Things like utilities off-campus because those are significant. We've added in some transportation costs for some students We've added in food both on-campus meal plan and off-campus We've we've surveyed students a lot both here and elsewhere over the years and you know have some sense of what students pay You know on a monthly basis for food if they're living off-campus So we've tried to put a bunch of factors in And and internet because they pay for that off-campus. Yes Do I have it right that that these numbers compare a double occupancy? UVM suite with a three bedroom So I'm wondering why you're why you're doing that? Well, it's not apples to apples That's well It's it's the closest that we can get to because the double occupancy would probably be two bedrooms that are for Students and the three bedroom apartment. We are told even though You know the students are will probably put four people. They'll use the living room as a bedroom So you but you'll have your own individual bedroom But you would that but there would be four people in that unit or there might be a couple people sharing It's it's not we're not saying that that's an exact comparison We're just trying to indicate that when students say it's much more expensive to live on campus It's not necessarily when you add in all the factors It's not necessarily the case if you look at the bottom example where it really is more comparable The single occupancy University suite meaning you have your own bedroom versus a two bedroom apartment in the local market There's about four or five hundred different dollars difference Annually, so that's not a huge difference If you think about it, so I think the main point to take from this is Cost is an issue for students, but it is not the primary issue that That incentivize the students to go off campus We also did a demand study. We looked at we asked students based on all the questions about what's your level of interest in campus? housing and So we projected demand and this what we're showing here are numbers that are over and above what the university is now housing In terms of juniors and seniors so the university has juniors and seniors in their campus housing And in their affiliated housing and they have about I think 450 or so juniors and 300 or so 350 seniors so these numbers are above those this is the additional demand and if you look at it in Percentages, which is the bottom line there these numbers are very consistent with what we see nationally about 20 percent of soft excuse me juniors and about between 10 and 15 percent of seniors Typically will live on campus and the rest are living off campus And that's just a that's just a matter of of again The preference for having a more independent living arrangement and the fact that most most universities Only provide enough housing to house their first-year students and some of their second. Yes These numbers we've taken out the RAs because they're living in other units. So these are these are pure demand other than RAs Okay. Yes I When you said you factored in some transportation costs, I was curious if that's just you know Bus fare or were you considering car ownership and you know cost because I have to drive everywhere in parking Which is kind of what we see it's primarily Primarily we've considered things like bus bus passes and and that kind of transportation I Can't I can't quite recall if we've got a parking fee in there for the university But we're trying we were trying to a lot of students actually walk. So there's not a lot of transportation costs in there Yes, sir. So maybe you'll get to this, but do you consider at all? The Housing in the rest of the city to the point of how do we hire employees when they can't afford to live here and they and There's more housing than just what happens on campus and yet you seem to do it in a vacuum Well, let me respond to that by saying that our study The charge of the study was to determine what is the demand for housing off campus and on campus and I think I Think the the reality is because we've been doing this now for four or five years here And I know what the issues are in that, you know, people are very concerned about What is happening in the neighborhoods and I totally understand that and we talked in in through the various Meetings that we've had over the years we've talked with a lot of neighbors and I've heard very directly the impact that students have on the neighborhood Right my my point I think is that No institution that I know of that as a state institution will require a junior or a senior to live on campus They are going to go off campus And I think the the key question to me is if they're going to be living off campus How do you make how do you minimize the negative impacts of students living off campus? And how do you maximize the positive impacts of them living off campus? I think that To say that we have to get all these students on campus isn't going to be a reality Because they're just not going to do that so the question is is there a way to make this work where students are on in the community and The the negative impacts are minimized and I think that's the big question that that has to be addressed. I understand that Yeah, so do you have another slide similar to this that shows what the demand for off-campus housing the change changes in The demand for off-campus housing are because you this this shows the increase in a demand for on-campus, right? This the the obverse of this is just that everybody else would be off-campus It would be great to have some numbers for that of we can number of number of bodies and okay So just to summarize for juniors and seniors the issues are There's a strong preference for living in a location between UVM and downtown Burlington And if you look at the map there one of the things that we did in the survey was we asked them Where do you currently live and we said give us your the two intersections closest to your house So we weren't asking their specific house but roughly where they live and we mapped that and as you can see there's a high Concentration between the University and Church Street the larger the circle the heavier the concentration I think the red is fourth year and the blue is third year so you can kind of see those populations So there's a lot that's that's that's really a lot of where they are focused There are a few outliers We didn't we cut those off the map just so that we could make this more reasonable But the primary populations are in this area And so they're really as I say they're looking for independent living they're looking for a location between the University and downtown and In a way, I think those are the most important things who owns the housing isn't necessarily as important if the rules and regulations and all of that mirror an independent living style that they're looking for So now we'll move to the graduate medical housing medical students rather Let me say a word about them just generally from a national perspective because we do work all across the country And we've done a lot of work with graduate students and medical students and their interest in housing the thing about graduate students is they Many of them are on a stipend and particularly at UVM when we talked to them a lot of students had no other income other than a Stipend and so they have to really be able to afford their housing based on that stipend They also require more square feet per student than undergrads whereas you can put for undergraduate students in a sweet-style housing arrangement and it's very efficient because you've got four bedrooms to The common space and to the bathrooms and so forth Graduate students tend to want to live more like real adults with maybe two people sharing an apartment each having their own bedroom So there's roughly more square footage per student Which means your costs are higher, but they have less money So it's very difficult to make graduate student housing work economically most of the places that I have worked Graduate students typically live in the oldest housing that has all its debt service paid off very little cost Not very nice, but it is what they have and is what they can afford. So it's a hard proposition to make work They prefer not to live with or near undergraduate students in part because they're really different than undergraduate students in part because They're teaching undergraduate students, and they don't want to live among the students. They're teaching Geographic proximity is not as critical for these folks as it is for for undergrads So they don't mind some of them traveling as long as there's good transportation Having said that they also don't mind being close to campus And some are seeking transitional housing if you are you have to sort of think about the graduate population as several populations There are the PhD students who are here for four or five years They typically want housing in their first year and then after that they're fine going off into the community and finding their own housing If you're a master's student, you're only going to be here a year or two Very likely that you'll want to live in university housing for both years because it's just easier that way or maybe one year And then you move off if you're a medical student because of the nature of a medical program Your first couple of years you're in school but the second two years you're in clerkships and you're going back and forth to the hospital different hours of the Day and night and students really don't want to have housing be an issue for them So they're perfectly content to live in in a housing situation where they can be there for several years many of them The existing conditions they are spread out among several neighborhoods, although they do live downtown There's also a population in Old North End in Burlington Some are living in Winooski particularly families some in South Burlington and then there are others that are again outliers beyond here And Most of the students told us they are living in condominiums or apartments under offered the graduate students and medical students What are the housing issues for these populations? Well, even before you get to the issue of demand these students are looking for better information about Housing and about Burlington some of these students Come to Burlington and not only may this be their first time in Vermont this may be their first time in this country and they show up on day one and they may not have a place to live So they're they're looking for Information on how do I get housing? Where do I go shopping? Where can I get groceries? just all kinds of things and Some places provide this information better than others the medical school does a pretty good job of that It's a very solid community the graduate populations are more Balkanized because you may have just a couple graduate students in any given program So there's not necessarily a formal way of helping these students find housing They also have time challenges in that they the undergraduates have selected all of their housing before the graduate students even know They're coming so they are coming to the game late International students have even more difficult issues Particularly as we make immigration and coming to this country more difficult. They don't have social security numbers They can't get leases so there's there are a lot of issues that international students have with housing And finally they're looking for ways to create community The nice thing about Ethan Allen for Ethan Allen was that it was a real graduate community all the students living together It helped with things like childcare people could switch off taking care of each other's children But it was also people together in the same circumstance and so So they're looking to kind of replace that Their interest is in some having some on campus our campus housing University Affiliated housing two-thirds of the graduate and half the medical students said they were interested in university housing at UVM 90% said their primary interest is in first year Either definitely or strongly considering that 49% in later years preference for apartment style with individual bed bedrooms Locations we tested one between campus in downtown another Trinity That's another attractive area particularly for the med students because it's right across from the medical center And then we looked at some other places as well spinner place. They don't mind the location They don't like the configuration of that possibly quarry Hill, but there would be transportation requirements This is the demand that we project about 500 beds overall that would raise the percentage house from about 5% to about 40% And there is a as you can see a pretty strong demand here among graduate students And so finally just to wrap up the key issues. There's an interest in housing options on or near campus. Yes Can you go back to that other slide? I just wanted to get the numbers for a graduate. Yeah, I'm sorry. That's okay It's a graduate is 347 Medicals 156 total is 503 and then the percentages would be For graduate going from 5% to 39% medical going from 4% to 37% and Total would be 5% to 38% Okay, and so finally as I say just to sum up their interests in housing options on or near campus That the options have to be affordable and they're also looking for better information in the local market. Yes Okay So I this is I'm done now. So if you have questions, please feel free and I'm gonna open up but since I have the microphone I'm gonna ask you one which is if you could turn those numbers around because your interest you you the University is interested in the demand on campus. We're interested in the demand off campus So if you could give us those numbers Sometime in the next month or so would is that possible? That would seems like it's a simple exercise and it would be really helpful to to take a look at that Lisa I can tell you right now that excuse me. We have for undergraduate students We have about 10,500 students right now And we house a little over 6,000 of them and about 3,000 of them live in the city of Burlington So is but it would be great to get the the hard numbers and the change from You know from last year to this year and projections for going forward Yeah, thanks. Okay. So I think the jack did you have something? Yeah, I had a couple so the graduate student figures. It said going from 5% to 30 something percent But the slide before it said 90% of the first year grad students Wanted it and 49% of second year Grad students. Yeah, the way we do it the survey asks What's your level of interest and you know and some part of that 90 is definitely interested in part of it Is is a strongly consider and we wait those responses based on Definitely if you say you're definitely interested we wait that at 100% if you say you're strongly consider you would strongly consider it We waited it like 50% and also you're looking at the You're looking at all populations together. So there's a strong interest in first year. It falls off after first year So so the 90% is only for for the first year and that's and that is even weighted And then it was it was 49% for second year 49% for second year and on and again, that's weighted The 49% is again split between definitely and strongly consider so we wait those as well And so that's how we end up with those numbers and we ended up at 30 something percent from that Yes, because some because there are Because we're looking at the total population and the The weighting cuts out a lot of the of that the that we don't even consider the bottom part of that where we say I might consider it. I won't consider it all Okay, that to me is I Can go back and I mean the numbers I'm confident of the numbers We can we can the weighting to me just seems strange because strongly considering is pretty strong and then might Might consider it's still possible the other thing the other thing that I should mention is that When we do this there's a there's a direct percentage and then there's a confidence interval And we do it at a 95% confidence interval, which means there's a low a medium and a high range And we always take the low range Because we like to be conservative Which is why that number is much lower than what you would expect to see because we like to be conservative in our Demand estimates because it's easier to build more than it is to build too much and have vacancies Got it. I had it. I had a few more. But did you want to say something? I'm right on that. Oh Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, and then in terms of the cost breakdown on and off campus Yeah, what were the different components of that like is that broken out in the report in a way that we can look at? What what we do is we have the basic cost of Let's take on campus first we have the cost of the actual housing We then add the cost of a specific type of meal plan and Depending on the population the meal plan might differ and then we add to that Let's see if I don't think there would be any other costs for on campus We might I can't remember if we had parking or not if we were assuming that students have to pay for parking But that's one piece of the puzzle for off-campus We will what we've done is we do a survey of all a bunch of units in the off-campus market And we categorize them by studio one bedroom two bedroom three bedroom whatever And we also I think list them by houses and apartments and we compute averages So if we've if we've surveyed 31 bedroom units We'll take the average of that and then once we got the average of all the different Unit types then we add in things like additional food cost additional transportation cost utility cost Whatever we're adding in to normalize it and we are we can we see that breakdown is what I'm wondering to understand Like what portion of that total is housing versus food and transportation and yeah, non-housing expenses Yes, okay, okay, and then within that you mentioned something about Sharing a room off-campus or something, but this when you when you showed the numbers of that slide of the comparison I don't know if you could pull it up, but the 17,000 as the cost. I Just want to be clear is this this is someone who has their own bedroom, right? Like a two-bedroom apartment the bottom one and the bottom one We're comparing a two bedroom apartment to a single occupancy. So in both cases they would have their own bedroom, right? And but in the top one you're talking about it's we don't know we I mean You could look at it one way and say you have a suite with two people in it. You're sharing a room Versus you have three people in a Three-bedroom apartment that are three individuals, but it could also be based on what we heard by students from students It could be four people. It could actually be five people. I mean, there's no way of I mean, there's no way of exactly getting a comparison because the units are very different Well, what we're just trying to show is that the numbers are a lot closer on and off than I think students perceive We're not saying that it's specifically a hundred dollars or five hundred dollars We're saying that it's not the difference is not three thousand dollars It's it's a much closer number than than students think right now. I just want to highlight that though because When you do share a bedroom downtown and you're comparing up top sharing a bedroom With the three-bedroom Usually with downtown you're not sharing a bedroom, but if you are the cost drops significantly from that So that's what I wanted to highlight. There's a big discrepancy there All right. Well, I'll follow up. I look forward to getting like the more detailed report and following up So I just want to clarify on those numbers because there seems to be a fair amount of interest in it Are you talking the 15,000 for the three-bedroom is that for the full three bedrooms and it's divided by three? No, it's it's it's per person. It's always a per person. Okay. Thank you So I I want to focus on the 21% who may consider if Housing was available to their liking because what you're hearing from this group of people is that the Competition for off-campus housing is fierce and that we don't have enough housing It's not affordable and part of it is because of the competition in the low vacancy rate So I'd like to understand better how you are targeting that 21% To try to figure out how in you've talked about location, but I haven't really heard Anything definitive about what you're going to do the graduate and the medical students are a different story And I would really like not tonight, but I would really like when you come back to understand Why UVM let go of Ethan Allen? that the housing at Ethan Allen because people really love that and it was a community and I think you know I Just didn't that I never understood that I never understood why that was let go But I don't know how many of those people that are graduate students I'm not sure how many stay in the community like buy a house and stay in the community and so they're they're part of the fabric They're not transitional. They're just really part of the fabric and our homeowners. I just really don't know those numbers So I understand the the numbers that you stated for graduates and medical students and you know it to me I when I talked to Joe Spidell earlier, you know, it seemed to me that Trinity campus was a perfect place for Medical students. I mean you roll out of bed and you're at the hospital. I live on East Avenue I worked at the hospital. I rolled out of bed and I was at the hospital. It's very convenient No transportation needed except your feet, you know, so anyway, so So that seems to be a match as far as I'm concerned using medical student jargon here But as far as graduate students also, I think that looks like a Viable option, but it still doesn't deal with that 21% who are moving off campus Who you might be able to attract on campus if it was Housing that was more to their liking Let me answer that now. So I think that the When we say more to their liking, I think that still does include the idea of it being geographically in between the university and downtown, I think that's the population you need to try to capture that they most of their Their life consists of going to going to school and then socializing downtown and So even when you talk to the people at Redstone lofts, even though they like the freedom and the sort of lesser management there One of the complaints they have there is location because it is so remote from downtown So I think that if you are and I'm speaking personally here just based on my Knowledge of what I learned from these students. I think that if you are your hope your best hope of Addressing the problem is to find ways to create housing Between the campus and downtown So then I'm going to ask you to rethink that slide that you present Because I think it's misleading and I don't think that's your intent, but it said 71% want off 21% may consider if the housing available Available is to their liking and 8% would live on campus through their junior year, but would move off I wrote those numbers down. So to me the 21% is misleading if you really don't living between the campus and downtown Still means that you're going to either have to create housing in a space that could go for other types of housing Not just student housing or it is meaning that you Anyways, I just feel like that's not solving the housing problem really I'm gonna so that's it Ask us to move on because we have two other people that want to have questions or comments And then we're going to move on to the next thing and I understand that there's a lot of interest in this and The steering committee is working on having a full evening about housing and UVM issues. So so Apologies that we need to cut this somewhat short, but go ahead Karen and then gentlemen in the back on in the purple the 17,400 is for a university student that has that's their price. Yes No, that's their price. Okay, so I do think you are drastically off with the local market for a two-bedroom apartment because in new construction I've heard people pay up to 1,000 right for there. But wait a second. So that would be 12,000 for them But other it's more like around 7 to 850 per bedroom, which is more like under 10,000 So 17,900 for one person is You know in my opinion way off Well, we'll go back and look at the numbers, but I'm pretty confident. We've scrubbed these numbers a lot The when you add in Other costs to it. Those are the things that raise the cost We'll go back and check the numbers So and let you know if we have any updates to them. Yeah, it was this gentleman Hang on a second. Let's those yeah in the back and then then live I just want to make sure that I'm understanding your take-home message here Is that you're not looking at any off-campus? possibilities to build Housing for juniors and seniors, but you are looking at some off-campus possibilities for graduate and medical students I want to be clear that we're not looking at anything in terms of actual building. That's not my role That is the university's role My role is to say what I think the demand is and I think the demand for graduate housing and medical school housing is Strong and that there are the appealing locations for them Include Trinity campus and places between campus and downtown But Trinity campus is certainly a very appealing place for undergraduate students the demand for quote on campus housing is not strong And to the extent that there is demand it is demand that has to be met through some criteria one very few regulations, you know not the RA presence not the alcohol policy not the food service thing and Also locational being someplace between the campus and downtown now it can be closer to campus than downtown But it can't be on Redstone campus, and it can't be you know at the back part of campus It's got to be someplace that students are going to be attracted to that is convenient to their lives And I think this is just a clarifying question. Thank you for the presentation. I apologize for being tardy the annual costs on the university side of the of the numbers is this 12-month equivalent or no, that's we said at the outset that's a nine-month cost. It's got yes, so if you I mean So the numbers look close But I think what it what it's missing is the reality that those other three months those students Some may have the benefit of going home and living with parents Some may have the benefit of Shacking up with somebody but the vast majority and I think you missed this in your assessment of going to school and Partying downtown also working So there are still a cost associated with them those with the three months So these numbers are from the decision-making standpoint of students They're all in cost for nine months. Maybe the 16 or 17, but you're forgetting the three other months And so from a propensity to pay and exist in the marketplace on a annual basis Those those numbers do travel that that's a fair point wanted I would also say that students probably don't make that count They probably don't think ahead to summer when they're making their decisions But that is a fair point. You're absolutely right. I think students Drastically do think for I mean they're required. I was just working with students today We're looking for housing for next year already. I mean the market so tight They're thinking ahead a year or two mm-hmm in my experience, but so I'm gonna Thank you both for for being here and ask that you Stay tuned for a quest for a more in-depth conversation Down the road here in the early spring and and Lisa when can we expect to have access to the written report? Yes, you can have the PowerPoint. Yes in the PowerPoint if that could go to CEDO and the NPA website where everyone can have access Yep Thanks again Okay, so next up we have the state representatives Brian and Barbara where are you folks? Can you come on up? So my understanding is you're going to make some brief remarks and then look for input from So I'm Barbara Rachel sin I represent Chinden 6x which includes part of one and eight and Serve on the House Judiciary Committee and on judicial retention Well, I got an electric shock You're electric Barbara It's foreshadowing of the legislative session so I'm Brian Cina. I'm a state representative for Chitten and 6x4 which is most of Ward 1 I believe like one street of Ward 8 a piece of land that nobody lives I think in Ward 6 and then a chunk of Ward 2 which is the section I live in and I'm on the House Healthcare Committee Also the co-chair of the working Vermonters caucus and I'm on the Vermont artificial intelligence task force So what we thought we certainly can talk about some of the Issues that we will be working on in the upcoming session, but I know Brian and I both talked about Having the opportunity to hear from you all about what is important to you to have the legislature addressing and What kinds of issues do you want to hear updates on as the session? Rolls along. So this is the second year of the biennium We have the bills in from last year. They're still alive and many of them are sitting in committees, but At the end of the session we start from All the bills die. So the deadline for new legislation Was December 1st, but there still can be committee bills and short There are still ways to have legislation go in Yeah, so I think we just want to open it up to hear your concerns your needs Things you want us to fight for Or any questions you have and we're happy to share what we're working on but we wanted to start off sort of open And I guess one thing I would say is that People who don't normally have access to us. I would like to prioritize Not that I'm gonna cut people up But I want to put that out there like if you're someone who knows me and sees me all the time or Is like has power in some way like let's just make space for people who may not have that chance But I don't want to censor people. I'm just sort of just a reminder. Thank you Okay, so anybody has any input? Yeah Hello, I'm Hannah and I live in Ward 8 and I just feel like there's not a lot of outreach or communication between What's going on on the state level with students or like really anyone in the community? And I feel like we have it down on like a city council level of having that open conversation But I don't ever see that really like from you So I'm just wondering what you're working towards to strengthen outreach I was gonna ask you where where you look where you're looking. I mean, I know for me like I'm pretty Tuned in to from Forge forum and all of that. So I'm like not a great example But I know like most of my peers aren't Like don't have the same opportunity and aren't paying attention on that level Yeah, I guess Like I know that I post things on Facebook on Twitter Sometimes on Instagram sometimes on Twitter. I try to avoid Twitter because it's too cluttered with like nonsense, but but um From porch forum I'll post things we go door knocking when it's time to campaign We I know that myself and Selena who's my district mate who's not here because she's at a conference right now We go to MPAs like this we go to community forums I personally go to meetings caucuses of the Progressive Party Democratic Party I go to Democratic Socialists of America meetings. So those are some of the things I do but I'd be curious like if we're missing you What else should we do, you know? Anybody have any suggestions on that of How the state reps could be doing more outreach one thing that I know we've tried to do and have done successfully at times is Get to the campuses and talk to various groups. So I'm also excited sounds like Champlain has just Started some both Democratic and I'm not sure if they have all three party groups I've also Thought about asking the cynic I did a few years ago about us doing a legislative column and have those of us that represent part of UVM rotate of putting in updates there I've reached out. I know Champlain has a Communication One of the things also that I've gotten mixed feedback about is printing up materials and leaving them at the polls or Putting them in people's stores. I know some people really want us to be more paperless. So any Ideas are wonderful We frequently have like times that people can come meet with us and we can certainly bring those up to Campus so to make that easier for people So other other comments. I just want to add to that that um that We do sometimes get invited to the school to do events One thing that I found challenging is that we're not allowed to put Political information up around the school. So like if I wanted to reach out to you I could not come to campus and knock on your doors on campus not that you live on campus But I'm saying there's a barrier like we're not allowed to do that and we're not allowed to hang up flyers on campus Although people break the rules like I've seen some elections where there are flyers everywhere for people, but I won't do that. So UVM hears that like I won't break your rules but One thing that we could potentially do is sometimes me and Selena have like will meet here at the hospital and Announce it and meet with constituents. Perhaps if UVM allows it we could meet it on campus sometimes and see if that might Make us more accessible to students So this is a new a new subject. Is that okay? I want to move this away from you just a little bit and Talk a little bit about state funding for homeless Is homeless funding has been level funded for the last couple years I'm speaking about Specifically from the standpoint of domestic violence and shelters where our general Assistant's funds and housing opportunity grants are just not enough and they haven't been enough and they're just getting to be less Is there something that you can bring to advocate for maybe changing the way? AHS is allocating their funds or giving a little bit more money out So a few things one is having worked in the nonprofit sector for the last It's it's embarrassing how long but 35 years That's something that I have been Very concerned about is what we do in terms of level funding year after year The other thing that I'm concerned about that we've dealt with in house judiciary is we fund certain domestic violence projects based on fees that Proprietrators are paying and it seems like we need to move away from just seeing what kinds of fees are coming in and looking at what the needs are Treasurer Beth Pierce right now is Looking at the various housing reports and studies that have been done and trying to come to She's gonna be presenting a full report in January to the legislature and when I talked to her yesterday She said if people have concerns and they want to talk to her that that Would be something that she welcomes and I'm happy to either connect you with her or Share with her some of the concerns that have come up It's I know that the shortage of housing for both homeless and victims of domestic violence has been really teetering in past years the hotel situations gone back and forth and I Think we just need to continue to you advocate. There were some good advocates there, but There's you know sometimes Other needs that unfortunately have More pressure or more sort of political capital, but I can tell you that I know Brian and I and Selena are really Particularly strong advocates for human services, especially Basic needs thanks Did you want to say regarding housing as people may be aware like the state hasn't been able to use all of the housing vouchers that We were eligible for partially because of a lack of Apartments that people could use them in but also because of requirements for people to have additional services to stay in the apartments And I think that filler further illustrates the argument about why we need housing first Approach like what pathways does where there's low threshold immediate access to apartments and services available to people in Those apartments and so I've been meeting with pathways to work on a proposal for the Appropriations Committee around how to slowly Shift the investment of housing Towards housing first. I don't have the details. I'm happy to talk about that once we figure that out But it's just want to throw it out there. Okay, so we have two more comments or questions Richard and then Michael Thank you. Thanks very much Barbara and Brian for coming I'm touched on this last year when when we met with you and I wonder and Apropos Barbara talking about being paperless. We're also newspaper less if essentially In the city and so much of what's and tends to happen I think as Hannah alluded to it seems to be in a vacuum and then all of a sudden we find the budget is This could apply to city council as well The the here's the budget here are the taxes and you haven't really had any input so I'm My question is to what extent are you able to put together? metrics That people can easily see that a 1% improvement for instance in the number of prisoners incarcerated out of state or Students that are retained in the state and that you could come up with a couple of dozen to what extent can you Publish such Metrics and have that drive policy and drive the budget instead of seemingly the other way round Any company would do that and I don't understand why our public entities don't so I appreciate your comments And I've got other ideas, but so last week we had a fiscal briefing which the legislature gets every year. It's done by the joint fiscal office and Not only do they give us metrics which again we can we can Send this the link to this around it's on the website but they also do a fiscal facts booklet every year and You're right. Like it's important to have that information There are people sitting in prison right now because they either don't have housing or they were furlough violators But they were out in the community and sent back to prison For something that was not against the law but was against their furlough conditions and that's a small fortune that we're paying We also have a lot of people house that really need mental health and substance abuse treatment and are not receiving it So it's it's also trying to redeploy Money that's being spent now More sensibly if any of you read digger last week It's maddening to hear that DMV sold our personal information and over the past three years collected about 14 million dollars in In revenues for doing that and it's like where is that money? Is that just like they get to keep that because they didn't report it that could go to a lot of Funding to make sure people have a safe warm place to live So so I just want to remind people that everything that we do is public in terms of our committee work and And the debate on the floor of the house that whenever we are in session and we're convening you can listen over VPR there's an app you can put on your phone. You can do it through the computer. You can listen to the debate You can hear the roll calls Every day a journal is published and a calendar the calendar is for the current day the journal is for the day before There's a record of all of that going back like 10 years or something online that you can go through In every every committee meeting all of the witnesses Information they submit is posted online. It's sorted through our website by committee But you can also look things up by bill or by legislator And so I just put that out there because there is an overwhelming amount of information out there I want you to know how to access it, but I will say that if anyone has a specific question It's okay to email us and ask and it might take a little time but we can take a few minutes to go through that and direct you to the right place and the worst-case scenario which I've Done is I can't find something and I write to the legislative council office and I and join fiscal office And I say constituent wants to know this and they usually tell us pretty quickly because it's usually there somewhere And we just haven't found it So I just want to let you know that I can understand how it can be frustrating When you want to know something and it's not easy to find so just feel free to ask And if there's if people feel like you'd want like a report card Like you're like here's 10 statistics that the npa wants to know Maybe we could put something together for you like around along that. That's what you were referring to My question really was how it drives the policy but I'll move on to get other people more time So we have three other people that that have questions or comments And we also have a lot more to cover tonight So I'd ask that you'd be as succinct as you can be so it's michael and that adam and patricia And then we're going to move on to the dpw conversation. Okay, right I just want to get your response to what's been it's been in the news lately Some disturbing stories about the chitin regional correctional Center and I'm not sure exactly what role the legislature may play in addressing some of those issues, but They need to be addressed So Hello, hello, hello Is it okay now I'm so sensitive to like feedback. I'm afraid now. I'm gonna set it off. All right, so um so The the uh women's legislative caucus, which I am a member of you are too, right? So and so is selena That we have been this has been the main like the um corrections reform Specifically in the women's facility has been our priority over the last year. So our Our caucus has been doing work where we're bringing in former inmates and Staff and starting to hear a little bit about what was going on and asking lots of questions And over the summer we were able to like work with the commissioner of corrections to start exploring new models Um specifically one model I was advocating for is called the norway model and you give you google norway model It comes up. It's the approach to use in norway where We we would we treat a prisoner as a neighbor Not as someone were to punish the idea is like this is going to be your neighbor How are you going to treat them and they have um like the statistics of the amount they invest in how much it costs And the and the reduction in recidivism shows that it works and there's a there's a um An organization in the united states helping north dakota and a few other states do this work And so over the summer I spoke with the commissioner of corrections and he agreed to start speaking with north dakota and Up until this all came out. What we were hearing was he's looking at completely retraining the staff and completely changing the culture of prisons And then all this came out And so now we you know the women's caucus wrote a statement which is digger has put out But i'm happy to share that with you if anyone wants to read it expressing our position And I can guarantee you that not only that caucus but many of us are you know as individuals are going to be going back in um Asking questions demanding accountability and continuing to fight for reform And it just shows you that like there's the problem was deeper than we even knew you know The one other piece is that What's going on in the prison is horrendous and really needs to be stopped immediately it's it's So awful i'm embarrassed to be associated with state government when that kind of things are happening but we also have to look at the Biases in women being sentenced in the first place women are sent for longer sentences for lesser crimes and There are many other alternatives if we put a price tag on what the cost is to send a prisoner To any of the correctional facilities for a year and what the recidivism rate is People would be more up in arms than they are about property taxes because we are spending so much money for something that isn't working and so it's And then you find out that it's doing harm It's just outrageous. So adam and patricia and i'd ask you both to to be Clear into the point so we can can can can get to the department Presentation but also you can make your points. So adam go ahead I'll let patricia go first and if i can sneak in at the end that's okay But if not i can follow up because sure patricia. Could you have a microphone? Yeah, my question expresses my ignorance, which is how do you all decide what you're going to work on in a year And is there a place where I can go and find out where that list is? You know, where's where's your list of your to-dos or issues or whatever. Thank you Okay, so you have a short answer. I'll try to be for short So if you clicked on either of us our legislator Name on the web site it would come up with every bill that we've introduced or Are a co-sponsor of? um Again a lot of us are trying to get that information out via social media as well Some of the local News digger is at the state house a lot seven days Was covering political stuff the other piece is We might want to work on something very badly and a lot of it depends on The if the committee that's assigned to Is going to take it up Yeah, I I never thought about the idea of having like my list of priorities really clearly Posted somewhere because I don't have the website I created I used during campaigning and then like don't touch it, you know Um, so that's an interesting idea that I'll think about how to do do that But it is when we introduce an idea it is Documented like our bills are documented and so usually the way I was thinking of it is when I introduce a bill Then you see it, but I think that's different than having a clear list of like this is what I'd like to do Which I think both of us have really and Selina have really long lists So we were working on like something in every area So I'll work I will work over the next week or two to do that And I think we we are allowed to post something like that It feels a little weird to use front porch forum to be like these are my priorities But at the same time maybe I'll say someone asked and so I'm going to use it for this purpose I see a face I feel like that's that's taking up space, but Maybe it's space. We should be taking so I hear that feedback And I'm happy to talk Today about it if you want the info sooner, but I'll try to post something by the new year So you all take your issues you present them to committee and then is it a majority rule? It's not that simple. It's actually really complicated. I think what happens is the committee's we don't even have time for that I don't think right. Yeah, because that's so I won't give a complicated answer I'm just gonna say the committees have their discussion But then the leadership has its discussion and then outside of that It's a big game of how you can switch people's minds. I think that's a simple answer Which works sometimes I can go pretty quick. I just want to do a follow on a return back to the homelessness issue because we talked about You know, obviously talking about housing is important. We're talking about homelessness But really no one chooses to know not many people choose to be homeless at the byproduct of the mental health and Substance abuse issues. Barbara you mentioned that I was going to ask what could y'all do to help support us at the local level who are really dealing with this on a on a day to day Basis and instead of doing that, maybe I'll just suggest three or four things that have been coming up over and over That maybe the state could be supportive of Expanding the street outreach team That Howard center has been so great at running over these years, but they're down from six team members to four It costs about $80,000 all in salary plus benefits to staff one of those positions And I've been trying for a few years to find a sustainable 16 to four From six to four. Oh, okay Yeah, so I've been trying to find a sustainable funding stream for for a few years to get that number back up If not grow it beyond six, but that's one way expanding Expanding the mental health and opioid treatment well incarcerated especially The medical medical assisted treatment program within the prison system We see a lot of people coming out and a lot of times want to get back in for treatment when treatment's up They they they fall back Furthering support for the low barrier shelter, which we have Thank you so much for the 360 or 80 thousand dollars that come each year But we're still every year looking for donations for a whole host of things including food And I will I'll stop the no, I won't stop there I think also we have a real need for low super low barrier employment opportunities for folks who are On the way towards recovery, but haven't quite gotten They're themselves together to fill out paperwork and go through that So support around low barrier employment, which we are pursuing at the city level would be really helpful Be briefly Adam those are great issues and thank you for your commitment to them So some of us have worked on a homeless bill of rights, which I don't know what happened with that, but anyway What I want to say is the the Medicaid state Plan just got approved. So I think there's some potential in there that we all need to look at The correctional system in vermont I just want to say that no matter how long your sentence is you could have a 10-year sentence a two-year sentence You only really get most of the treatment and services for your last six months, which is bizarre. No other state does that And our health care in prison were the second most expensive state in the nation We currently contract with centurion, which is a for-profit health care company out of florida Which other states have sued and if you look at I have a great pee report that shows that other states Including connecticut if you take the prisoners out of the prison and bring them like to the med school You can use federal funds rather than general funds It would be a way to also fund vermont institutions rather than a for-profit company in florida, so I know that's one of the things that i've been trying to get headway on I'm not going to say anything. I was trying to find out the status of the homeless bill, right? Okay So I'm going to thank you all and and ask that You consider returning in a few months time We'll we can be even touched because it's obviously a longer conversation here with this a lot of interest in talking with you all So thank you for coming and hope to see you again soon And Thanks very much and thanks for your service Next up is folks from the department of public works as many of you know that we we've had several conversations one is about safety along east avenue and the other is sidewalk safety throughout the city particularly in wards one and eight areas where there's Spots where there's trip hazards ice icing ponding those kinds of things make it Difficulty with for wheelchair access on sidewalks. So we're going to spend a few minutes on each of those so we're going to start with With the chapein and company talking about The east avenue safety have a few questions and then a short bit update on what is happening With dpw in terms of addressing those safety hazards on sidewalks. So over to you guys Great. Thank you very much Cindy chapein spencer director of public works with me city engineer norm baldwin senior transportation planner nicole loge and senior engineer laura wheelock Laura was just handing out A bunch of information because last time we presented there was a request to Present in a more abbreviated fashion and to have more conversation So we have as requested By the npa steering committee provided a list of draft sidewalk projects for the coming year As well as an update on the east av and we also have some exciting news Of the construction season not quite done yet. Uh, and something we are going to install tomorrow in ward one So with that i'm going to start off with nicole who's going to give an update on east avenue traffic calming Thanks chapein. I was asked to give a 30 second overview here. So i'm going to make this really quick So we have lots of time for questions Quick summary our traffic calming program was established in the late 90s. It hasn't been updated since the early 2000s So we are in the midst of trying to update this program The most significant changes that you may expect there Hopefully the main goal is to streamline this program for the community and for staff We know that this is not currently working well for the community or the department So we're changing everything from the intake process to the neighborhood meeting process to the the final outcomes So we have in the handouts A little summary of what we're trying to change and the proposed schedule related to that So we're hiring a consultant right now to help us develop some thresholds that will really separate traffic calming from neighborhood enhancements And that will allow us to prioritize the streets that do have a measurable problem with traffic and safety And with that will then initiate some new projects in 2020 and with the data that we have so far It is likely that east avenue will be on that list. Um, but this is a kind of early in that process We don't have those defined thresholds yet, but that is the first deliverable that we're asking for from our consultants So that's a very quick overview of where we are with that program Um, chief general if you want to take questions now or give an overview of everything and take questions at the end So norm baldman the city engineer i'm also deeply involved in the transportation review of These types of issues particularly uh interest to this group is the of course the east ab crosswalk east ab and bill do crosswalk um, so I'm not sure if people are aware, but we go through some General standards of practice and guidelines that relate to how we install crosswalks and the the methods Of our different variations of crosswalks that that are installed in relation to the volume of traffic and also Volume of pedestrians and how those challenges exist and how we can try to address and enhance safety So for crosswalks, we typically either have a crosswalk that's marked With striping and also advanced warning sign package and is let For more enhanced crosswalks. We have what you're familiar with is the rfb the rectangular flashing beacon The city for the longest time had standards that related to what state of romant had listed for guidelines recommendations for crosswalks. We were following that and then we built an overlay to that which Didn't look exclusively at volumes of traffic, but looked at number of pedestrians and also volumes of traffic and gave consideration to both to lower the potential threshold of competing volume of traffic itself so applying those standards to the Evaluation of the east ab crosswalk as it exists today with the information we have available today We're saying it doesn't meet the warrants or guidelines for rfb I understand that doesn't make some people happy But it's important that people understand that we are protective of those guidelines because it's important that These don't get pervasively placed throughout the city and then become diminishing its value We are going to commit to the community here That will be doing additional work to gather more information in terms of volume of traffic Since the data we have is somewhat dated We also want to look more closely at the volume of pedestrians crossing there So that's the kind of general overview of that circumstance I would add that we have looked very closely at the existing addition after the accident That's our standard practice when an accident occurs We look at is the sign package in place How is the uh sight lines can people be seen from A distance that is appropriate for people to slow down or stop And we look at overhead illumination We work very closely with BED on the illumination and checking the standards and we've asked them post this accident To check and see what those light levels were and in fact, they were adequate and consistent with the IES standards As noted in the memo that we provided And depending on that simple fact, we also asked them to Boost the light levels to improve visibility We believe that there was Some things that couldn't be understood as to why this accident occurred And the only thing we could assume was that there was some reflectivity off the street given it was a rainy dark condition That aside, I think we're trying to do some interim steps that make it somewhat safer than as As we know that an accident did occur in addition We're also going to be looking at what is the history of this crosswalk Is there Incidents that have occurred previously that we are not aware of so we've asked the police department to provide us Accident reports for the last five years Those accident reports have been we've been given generalized Accident reports we've not been given the specifics Of the accidents that occur there whether it be a car Car to car or with injuries or car with a pedestrian with injuries Those are all relevant to us deciding and determining what is Correctable circumstance Beyond that of course There are other locations of interest to the community And on a more positive note We are installing a rapid flashing beacon beacon at Colchester and chase An installation is actually going into tomorrow morning at starting at 8 o'clock. So Be advised that is happening and I think I'll stop there and let others speak to the next balance of issues So So also included in your packet is the tentative work plan Just highlighting ward 1 ward 8 sidewalk work for the calendar year 2020 um Do put a giant disclaimer that you know, this is using our tentative budget that the budget process has not Commenced with the city for approval yet, but this is our tentative targeted work plan Looking to put about 1.7 million dollars worth of infrastructure work in this summer Looking at the short long run tallies, you know, you're about One third two thirds short on to long runs This will also address about 31 of our c-click fixes that we've addressed are inspected to be In a high to medium condition for targeting for work Noting that our full list of proposed work is going to go into the dpw commission packet that meeting is next wednesday 6 30 at dpw on pine street um Other meetings of note the mansfield have side path has a meeting coming up next tuesday december 17th 6 p.m In this room here And there is also a meeting for university heights that happens tomorrow at 5 30 in the davis center This is just to introduce the intersection a study work that we are doing and Explore some concepts With the primary user group for that intersection. If you have any questions, please reach out to dpw We do have names and phone number contacts on this memo for the university heist, which isn't listed here That is the madeline or maddie sender, which is listed under many of these options Okay, so we open it up to questions and comments Anybody have a Jonathan This is just quick. This is about the sidewalks, of course I'll save the other stuff or a rant later That's okay The the 1.7 million hours includes the what's left of the extra half million dollars that was allocated this year, right? Correct right and what is the How does this uh one the six thousand to twelve thousand?  So this ends up being just slightly larger than the three miles that we do target Thanks in part to the additional funding that comes from the city council and the fiscal year 20 approval Okay in terms of short runs and the short runs the short runs are a significant increase over what we have done in previous years This was in part due to uh direction. We've been hearing from the public and the ward 1 8 npa This uh six thousand linear feet represents while it may seem shorter in distance in the long runs It is an incredible number of short fixes from one to three to ten panels And so you'll see ward 1 and 8 here. We'll be showing the entire cities Proposed 2020 work plan as laura said at the upcoming commission meeting We didn't track the data that way so it um It's not really available much less. So hang on Karen. We got um, let's see Sharon richard and then then you Okay, so um this year there were like half a million dollars put in for the short runs That was additional dollars for you Because i'm on the board of finance and I told you ward 1 and 8 made a difference and I made sure that was in the budget I don't know what was there before but it was an additional five half a million dollars for short runs I wanted to say a couple of things one is you know, I gave Norm the evil eyeball when he said that east avenue didn't um qualify for a flashing pedestrian crossing But that was only because I know norm. I appreciate the work and um, I think that the Intensity of the light and the fact that parks and rec cleared Some of that where the landing is Has is a big improvement. I'm not saying that's the solution, but it's a big improvement I noticed that immediately and so I want to just acknowledge that because I believe I told you before that the pedestrian was part of the bank invisible to the To the driver until they stepped into the road So I hope this helps because we don't want any more accidents there um And as far as east avenue Sidewalks, I was looking. I really can't speak to I'm unappreciative that um That that was done also because of the focus on east avenue And because one of the people that I think lives in co-housing who Is in a wheelchair mentioned that she had to navigate to get Anywhere on the street because the sidewalk was in such disrepair. So on her behalf I think I'll thank you hoping that it really does address the issues that she brought forward um And then there was one other thing I wanted to say In regards to this So i'm going to speak for jared wood who everybody knows who um has called me and called adam And probably a number of other people in the room Um He made this comment, which is very true. Um, I've seen people not stop for the flashing the yellow flashing light for pedestrians And yellow does not mean stop it means to be cautious And he wondered and i'm just going to get this on the record He wondered if we're serious about making it safe why it wasn't a flashing red And why we weren't really taking that to another level and I couldn't respond to him Um, but and um, I I just wanted to get that out there on his behalf Because he thinks that we set people up potentially to put them in harm's way Um, and the last thing is I know jared would support anything we can do to make Navigating around our community easier for those people who um Have um Who are have a disability or are challenged or just Basically want to walk as opposed to bike or use a car Thank you I think I think it needs to people need to understand that a crosswalk is A warning device the rapid flashing beacon and the beacon is a warning device the next levels of of control is signalization And uh, typically a hawk In a mid block, but that would be for Different circumstances typically, but you could potentially do that, but it's it's costly and is that really The best fit given them given the volume of activity May I just one just saying may I just ask that potentially that that dpw really Educate the community about the flashing yellow And the request about flashing red and whether or not that is something that Could be considered or not because I think I I've heard this from other people Not just jared when I came to the last dpw meeting the last time when I was sitting in the audience There was a conversation about it. Thank you great the the city standards in the state standards do reference Appropriate standards for a hawk signal hawk signal is an all stop for the pedestrian crossing And we do take a look at that and use technical guidance to to guide us for those decisions We'll keep looking at them. Yes. Thank you I have a question for norm apologies norm if I if I missed this but new criteria for The rr fb's Do you include police data? We're we're using data as part of our analysis. Yes. Is it prescribed in the guidelines? No, so what data do you get from the bpd? Well, what we look from the police department is really, um Over a period of time what type of accidents occur? No, I'm not talking about accidents I'm talking about incidents. Well accidents incidents things that's are reportable We have no other means beyond reportable. So my supplementary if you will is that The bulletin police department are averse to traffic enforcement They know that east avenue is a racetrack because of because of various sharp details that have been run there And it's documented Shapen has that has that has the data But do you speak? How can how can you speak about? Safety on a street that is not patrolled by the police when you're depending on the police for your information I just do not understand it and it's a it's a problem You know, it's a you know, it's a problem Okay, so the the police reports the accident or incident reports are just one piece of the puzzle in terms of the review And there is some engineering judgment that has to be applied here And we can't go by simple formulas to make these decisions But we also know and understand that we can't install these devices In every condition in every circumstance and have it be Useful And so we have to be prudent about how we use these devices so that people pay attention You know that if someone ran a sharp detail just Just as a as a one-off and picked up $1,700 worth of fines in five hours You know that that is indicative of of poor Driving standards and poor compliance to the rules. Well, I would say that there's really We've talked about this many times. There's three components to Trying to improve safety. One of them is police enforcement enforcement action The other is education appealing to people's nature to do what's right and necessary and appropriate And and the other pieces are engineering our work to Make systems better so that people are well aware of what's ahead and what should be expected So that's our goal is to have all three work together and really solve these problems the best we can It's not say we can get rid of all problems, but that is our goal We have personally reached out requesting additional enforcement on a number of hot spots in ward one and eight including east avenue And the responses Oh, you've reached out but you haven't got a response. Well, I think we're we're getting response from the police in a In a more positive direction than we have in the past So we can't we can't say that they're deeply committed to all this We don't we can't say they're not committed at all But we see movement and we see support john mered has Really been a good partner in this process, particularly for this east ab ability Review he has been spot on Getting us information before the formal police report comes out on this accident.  I said, why can't we walk on the sidewalk? She says, oh, it's too bumpy So, I mean that is a big problem and I'm not sure I know it's more cost effective to do like whole long streets but Until we get like the really bad things done I think we should focus on that and then go ahead and you know do over everything But my other thing and I'm not sure what's happening with the quick build, but I know people have said this to you before but as a bicyclist Being put out in front of cars As a traffic calming measure is really uncomfortable and I'm talking about coming from city market On union street turning right on lumus. You've got the bolsters so that you are really pushed out in the street So anybody coming down lumus to turn right on union street They're there right at you because There's just it's a narrow area But then when you're on lumus because of the bolsters along, you know There's park cars on one side, which is where you're riding And then there's those bump out bolster things On the other side So if a car is coming down lumus and a bicyclist is coming up lumus that car veers and they're head on Going to you. It's really really frightening and I know different people have said this to you that as a bicyclist I feel like I'm being put in harm's way For traffic calming measures. Um, and I don't really quite understand you are really creating a one way Area where you have a parked car one lane of traffic and then the bolsters So it's not Safe for people And it doesn't really slow the cars down. I mean unless there's another car coming They will go as fast as they want It's another car. It's a car and car situation. They will stop and slow down But if it's a bicyclist and a car You really are putting us out there and I hope I'm not the person in a wheelchair or a walker Because I get hit next time I'm coming back from city market Oh, sorry, so, um, I'm going to step out of the And ask you uh ppw to respond to the uh, uh petition and the resolution the resolution that this group made asking you to address the safety issues on east avenue and The petition included a number of things besides the rapid flasher And we'd really like to to get your response to those other measures measures to slow traffic now because it as rigid said It's a racetrack people are flying through there particularly between 5 30 and 7 30 in the morning. They're going 40 plus miles an hour. They don't stop through pedestrians More light helps, but it's not going to Keep us safe. So if you just wanted out, I'd appreciate it Do you want? Oh, how do you understand? I'll start out by saying there's a multitude of efforts underway and nicole Is managing and overseeing a east av and colchester av scoping project that's underway the traffic calming You heard that we're redoing the traffic calming program to prioritize safety concerns and We believe that once we do the additional data collection that east avenue will rise to the top of that one And it's all detailed here in the memo. We are hoping to have the consultant developing The new draft program this spring and then in july 2020 starting with the new set of streets that are That meet that safety threshold and In july of 2020 so just this year Well, we're we're looking to move this quickly because we have 11 requests in queue We're hearing a number of communities anxious as I know you all are as well And I will say we've done the vegetation clearing with parks. We've done the additional lighting with bed We are going to continue to be bullish. We're putting the new rfb on a chase lane tomorrow We've got a new side path getting going in on colchester av next year This part of burlington is getting As much improvement if not more than many other areas in the city and we're pleased to reinvest in this part of town Okay, I'll use that one I was hoping to go last so we could end on a high note because I'm here to talk about helicopters Everybody wake up All right, so I am passing around an updated map. This was shared with some folks who are interested in the issue of helicopters Flying critically ill patients the uvm medical center and landing at the helipad by the jug handle I presented on this before And received some really helpful feedback on the map and we have refined it based on lived experience so a couple of two Sort of boundary highlights and then one very important highlight In relation to the map that we have recently discovered so The the boundary changes were made In the the shape the pentagon. I guess that is on the top of the page where we expanded we Shifted the western boundary further west to be over the The campus area it actually is now over the uvm medical center and uvm campus and we shifted the two Boundaries on the east to be further over the centennial woods We had a request to expand over the entirety of centennial woods We are not able to make that change because of the flight path to the airport We cannot fully restrict All the way to essentially what would be the highway And growth street because of access to the airport The most I think important thing that we did with this map was eliminate You can see the outline of the box. We eliminated all the text in that box That had a height restriction previously We had asked if if helicopters are flying over the areas in the red boxes that they fly above 500 feet We received a few Concerns from neighbors about hearing helicopters and we learned that they were actually The service that is a collaboration between uvm health network and dartmouth We examined their flight path and found that they were flying over those areas above 500 feet And learned that 500 feet is not a very meaningful threshold And so what we are asking Pilots who are flying patients to uvm medical center to do is to completely avoid the areas in red There is no Height threshold that precludes noise from impacting people who live in that area So we are continuing to monitor Every time we get an issue raise And every time I come here more people learn of me in my email address We follow up with the the operators And we are looking into a few other things that have been requested by neighbors including a webcam Um And uh, ultimately whether or not this helipad can move On to the campus. Um, that is a very long term and very unknown Unanswerable question at the moment, but it is something that is on our mass facility planning radar And we need to bring the right people here Who have done that elsewhere uh to really examine that thoughtfully Thank you, jason. I'm one of the people who used to get buzzed and it's you've it's made a world a different site I've I'd have encountered a Helicopter right over my my roof for a long time and I appreciate your efforts in making that so thank you I'm glad to hear that and we're gonna um, I also offered that I think it's better to try and limit our amendments to this map to an annual exercise because it becomes version control And nobody's quite sure which map is the right map And I think we should do that in the may or june time frame when windows start being opened up more And people are experiencing more outside noises and so um, you have my commitment that we will have that conversation in may With anybody who's interested in it to to see is this map still working for us. Great. Thank you Okay, so over to the city counselors. We're gonna Um, let us know what's happening at the city council. Sharon go ahead I'm just going to talk about the the joint committee that adam and I serve on We're part of the ordinance committee that's meeting with planning The planning commission and we were given Um from the housing summit all of the issues that were ordinance related Or policy related that would lead to an ordinance or were punted to this joint committee And so the things on on the plate of this committee was um accessory dwelling units short term rental Parking minimum parking standards Okay, anyways, so accessory dwelling units and it is being referred to the city council And um for those who weren't there or haven't been following this. Um, there have been some modifications Um, most of them have been to remove barriers But in essence, it's going to be boner occupied That's going to be part of the criteria And they've changed the size of the accessory dwelling unit to be what's recommended is 800 square feet or 30 percent of the size of the primary a structure principle structure and um, Whichever one of those is larger So that's the the maximum that you can build and I'll leave it at that for accessory dwelling units There's more detail, but I think that gives you the essence Um, the second thing the short term Did you want to say anything about that? Anyways the second the second item is the short term rental We have not taken that up and actually the next meeting of this joint committee is not until the new year It's going to be january 14th But the item that is in discussion is minimum parking standards And there has been a draft of that and the proposal is to eliminate minimum parking requirements For development in certain areas. There's the mixed use area. There's the downtown And then there's a corridors there are corridors around So there are neighborhood activity centers, but there are corridors. There's the riverside corridor, which is in our ward And also colchester avenue those corridors. There are specific requirements And i'm getting into the weeds, but it's 200 Feet back from the center line that would would be any property that meets that criteria would be able to not have to provide Parking the minimum parking standard would be eliminated So stay tuned if you're interested in this, please come and voice your opinion Um, I think the hope of that joint committee is to finish that work up Um at the next meeting, which I said was january 14th Um, so just to piggyback off of that. It's hard to talk about these things real briefly because there's a lot going on there, but um Within even though i'm not on that joint committee. I've been pretty involved in attending those meetings and advocating and With the elimination of the minimum parking requirements. One of the things that Myself and others have pushed for that now is um Very firmly part of the policy discussion is um transportation demand management requirements So like how uvm and the medical center they Take initiative in terms of helping Uh, their employees and students be able to get to and from campus without a car by giving things like free transit or discounted car share discounted bike share um Things to help shift that behavior in that transportation pattern. We're going to now presuming things move forward um on this we would require that of Many new developments. So even though they don't need to require a minimum amount of parking They will have to still deal with their transportation impacts But focusing on more sustainable transportation. So i'm pretty excited about that. Um, A couple other things that i'm working on around transportation. Um, I've been talking a lot with the mayor's office about trying to expand fair free transit we right now we have one bus line which Was the college street shuttle now it's the purple line, I believe and that's the one fair free route, but Trying to look beyond that and see if we can make any other routes in the city fair free. So Uh, that's that's a conversation that um, I'm hoping to to move along. Um And with the hope of getting some expansion, um in terms of next budget year, which will will do the budget in june And then Another thing that I have been working a lot on recently is rank choice voting or instant runoff voting which We had in burlington from 2005 to 2010 And the city council passed a resolution nine to three to Send this to the charter change committee that would look at because this would be a charter change So this is something that ultimately If it does pass through that committee and back to the council, it would then go to the voters. Um So It it looks like it has missed the deadline for being on the ballot for march But if it continues to move along it could potentially be on the ballot for november So stay tuned on that 13 we'll be out of here by 9 15. I promise. Um Uh, two quick things. I want to give an update on the special committee on policing policies or reviewing policing policies rather That was put together Over the late summer early fall They have been meeting regularly the the timeline that we afforded them on the first time we just when we established them They required more time. So they came back Late middle late last month and as for more time we extended their their work timeline and also prioritized their work to focus on issues of Use of force policy as well as civilian oversight models and to come back to us no later than our You got this out of february 10th. Sorry. It was in there And then the other update that i'll do another charter change That did make it or made it out of committee Earlier this week was the all resident voting Uh, thank you All resident voting charter change that i've that i put forward, uh, I think two and a half months ago now At this point this this looks at expanding voting rights to folks who are legal residents of burlington But have yet to receive legal citizenship status the opportunity to vote in local elections not state not federal but local Um, and that's a it's a super complex issue much like rv much like all charter changes are But one that I think is is time to have this conversation again With the voters and I look forward and advocating For it and i'm hoping that it will get through the city council on the 16th and then go to the the ballot 614 have a good night everyone Thanks everyone for coming and uh, we'll post the presentations on the and the handouts on the website the npa website and I'll be thinking if you want to be the rep for the community development block block grant We'll be looking at that in january and thanks everyone