Here we are on a given Wednesday, right after Christmas, and we have Lupu Uriisi, E-prink, a think tank in Washington over energy on the hookup here, and we're going to sort of get back to business here again today on a Wednesday. And he was here last week, so I got to see him again. It's wonderful now. It's not the same thing to see him on Zoom, but we like him anyway. Welcome back to your show, Lou. I'm happy to be here, Jack. So today we're going to talk about what happened to oil prices, which is a really good question these days. And of course, inherent to that is, what do oil prices mean to us these days globally and here in Hawaii? So what do you think? So I think that it's quite interesting, because if you were around in the early part of 2018, oil prices were rising, all the investment houses were talking about $100 oil. On the U.S., there was a big expanded production, some improvements in Libya, the Saudis increased production, and OPEC more or less lost control of the market, or the Saudis probably encouraged that, given their relationship with Trump. In any case, we have seen a rather substantial decline in oil prices. I'm going to talk about what that means not only for the world, U.S., but more importantly for Hawaii. So I thought we'd start out first with some quick facts on Hawaii, which is our first kind of slide up here. And you can see here, and I think it's very important because there's a lot of discussion about renewable power, but still you're going to see that oil prices and the very important products produced from them, gasoline and low supply fuel oil or diesel fuel, mean a great deal to the state of Hawaii. But anyway, Hawaii is the first state, by the way, to set a deadline for generating 100% of its electricity from renewable sources. It is actually the lowest residential energy consumer because of your very moderate climate. Solar provided half of Hawaii's renewable generation in 2017. That's half of your, you are still largely generating your power. I think almost 80 to 85% from fuel oil and coal. But why is one of the seven states with a utility scale generation from geothermal? But anyway, the geothermal is offline right now because of the eruption a few months ago. You do have the highest retail power prices in the country, but you don't use a lot of it. So let's go to the next slide here. So you can see the rather remarkable change in prices of crude oil. And the three benchmark prices are shown there. You can see Brent, which is the North Atlantic priced out in off the United Kingdom, more or less. WTI, which is Western Texas Intermediate, basically crude oil has priced in Texas. The OPEC basket and these vary by several dollars, largely due to quality differentials and logistics and transportation. Where does LSO fit on this chart? So basically LSO is you'll find out, and I'm going to show you in the next chart, that both low silver fuel oil and diesel really track very closely. We have some data on that. And gasoline, both of these fuels, however, are more dependent on what we call the feed stock, crude oil, than any other feature. In fact, that might be a time to go to the next picture. OK. And so this next picture shows what do we pay for a gallon of retail regular gasoline? How do we, you know, contribute cost component? And what are the contributing cost components to on highway diesel fuel? Now, when you burn diesel fuel or low sulfur fuel oil in your power plants in Hawaii, you don't pay taxes on that fuel, unless they're generated. You don't pay federal taxes. Perhaps the state of Hawaii collects some taxes. I don't know. But I think it's important to understand that, yes, over time, you can see, if you look at the blue boxes, right? The contribution of the main feed stock has declined. And the reason for that are twofold. In the case of gasoline, taxes are taking a bigger piece. So if you look from twenty eighteen to twenty seventeen, the average federal and state tax was about fifteen percent for gasoline. Now, in twenty seventeen, nineteen percent. Twenty eighteen, you know, prices have come down. This is the data from twenty seventeen and also for diesel fuel, federal and state taxes, which are a bit higher for diesel fuel. And the interesting thing that you look at this distribution in marketing and refining costs, that has that percentage of that has risen. Most of that has to do with fuel standards like effort at all and new specifications, which have risen the cost for those fuels. So but once again, the main component continues to be the feed stock, which is which is cool. Now, this is the kind of important for Hawaii to go to the next chart, right? So if you look at Hawaii, Hawaiian energy consumption by NU sector, right?  And when you fill it up with diesel fuel, you know, that, you know, about half of the energy consumption in Hawaii is in the transportation sector. Yes. I think it's very important. So gasoline is important. It's very important to price a gasoline for a while. But a good, a good, the remaining part of energy consumption is in residential, commercial, industrial sectors, and that is largely, not entirely, but largely electricity and power consumption. They say that we that we send six billion dollars out of state every year to pay for fossil fuel. That's what they've been saying. So when you tally it all up between cars and a generation of power, that's what you get. And it's not so bad. You figure the GMP, the state gross domestic product is about seventy seven billion, I think, so on the state budget is something between, I think, eleven or twelve or something like that. That's the government budget. You see how much how much money is involved in fossil fuels. Yeah. Yeah.  And I think the interesting thing here, take a look at state gasoline, the next chart, which shows a state gasoline tax as a percent as of February twenty seventeen cents per gallon. And, you know, things are pretty expensive in Hawaii. But the interesting thing I thought about this chart is the state of Hawaii does not have relatively high taxes on gasoline. In fact, you are one of the lower ones. Let me compare it to Pennsylvania or the state of Washington, even, and of course, California is up there. So the state of Hawaii has pretty, you know, it's gasoline tax is pretty low. And that may reflect the fact that a lot of people in Hawaii must travel a considerable distance these days as a real estate cost to do their job. And it's politically an important issue, I presume, for the state. Oh, yes, it is for sure. Then we look. So then I want to look a little bit more at net Hawaii, net electricity generation by source through September twenty eighteen, and this data is from the Energy Information Agency of the U.S. Department of Energy. So it's very credible data. And we've talked on many times. I can't believe how many times we've talked about renewable power and how it works and what it means and how important it is. But the bottom line is, right, you are getting over six hundred thousand megawatt hours from petroleum fire power, right? You're getting over a hundred from coal fire and then about a hundred from non hydroelectric renewables. So we got a long way to go to replace replace petroleum with renewables. So you're not at 100 percent yet. So I think it's important to keep this in perspective. So what happens to fuel prices is really important in the power sector. Transportation sector. We sort of shown that, but also in the power sector. You are not free of this burden, so to speak. And another state which has experimented extensively with renewables is the state of California. And I want to show you some data from there on the next chart. If you look at electricity prices in California and compare them to the rest of the United States in California, it does have access to low cost power, but they have chosen not to use it. They have access to lots of natural gas. They could import that. They can import power from other states. They can generate their own. But it's very important to see that sometimes a renewal just because something is inexhaustible doesn't mean it's inexpensive. And you can see in California that electricity prices since 2011 have risen about five times faster than the rest of the United States. Why this is large? This is largely driven to it's a very expensive and an extensive commitment to renewable power. Renewable power looks good on paper, but as I will show you in the second half of the program, it does come with some costs for which the proponents don't always reveal what those costs are early on in the process. Let me ask you, when you say there are special costs for renewables, you including the cost of building the infrastructure for renewables because that'll have a useful life, you know, of longer than, say, one year. So we can look at levelized costs. So I want to show you a chart with levelized costs, which is the right. You're absolutely correct. That's the way to do that. And we also want to look at the cost of the addressing intermentancy. When we look at those two costs, so yeah, it's possible you could argue that with built into the California higher cost numbers are quote investments, which are not paying off yet. But largely the way a power is funded is with a long term levelized cost estimate to consumers. So I don't think you're going to get a big bump in productivity improvements in California. And we'll talk a little bit about uncertainty on prices. You know, I actually do think a renewable port, a portfolio of power, which includes a lot of renewables, depending on your endowment makes sense from price diversification. I think it's an entirely foolish idea to go to 100 percent. Well, let's go to California. California is, you know, interested in renewables. It's got this chart showing that it's paying more than the rest of the country, which is, I guess, more less on renewables, more on fossil fuel going forward. What can Hawaii learn from the chart you showed us about the comparison of California prices and national prices? I think the thing they can learn, and we're going to talk about that a bit in the second half of the show. But I think the fundamental thing they can learn is you should have great caution when you look at numbers with point estimates and have some understanding of the variability around those estimates that are out there because you're dealing with new technologies often. You're dealing in which people, engineers and people of even goodwill do not have a lot of experience in really understanding what the true costs are or how they'll actually perform. We have this problem of nuclear power, of course, right? Nuclear power looks terrific, but we cannot contain its cost often. And could argue that's a regulatory issue. You can argue it's an engineering issue. The loss of bad management can go on and on. But in fact, this stuff sort of happened. Well, I can hardly wait for the second half of the show, Lou. This makes me want to take a break all the more quickly. So let's take a break now. That's Lou Pugliariso, you drink. We take a short break, we're going to come back and we're going to find out what all this means to Hawaii. We'll be right back. Aloha, I am Howard Wigg. I am the proud host of Cold Green for Think Tech Hawaii. I appear every other Monday at three and I have really, really exciting guests on the exciting topic of energy efficiency. Hope to see you there. When I was growing up, I was among the one in six American kids who struggle with hunger and hungry mornings make tired days. Grumpy days. That kind of days. But with the power of breakfast, the kids in your neighborhood can think big and be more. When we're not hungry for breakfast, we're hungry for more. More ideas. More dreams.  When kids aren't hungry for breakfast, they can be hungry for more.  Hi, I'm Ethan Allen, host on Think Tech Hawaii of Pacific Partnerships in Education. Every other Tuesday afternoon at 3 p.m., I hope you'll join us as we explore the value, the accomplishments and the challenges of education here in the Pacific Islands. We're going to find out from Lou Puyarisi what it really means. And we're going to focus on exactly what this says about our 2045 100% renewables goal. OK, ready, Lou? Yeah. OK, so let's let's take a look at what the cost of a levelized cost of new generating technologies in 2018, using what we call $2011 for megawatt hours. Just a way to adjust from question. So let's put this next chart up. This chart is an interesting chart because it's done by the Super Energy Research and we know them. They're very good, but it's really driven off a very extensive data from the U.S. Department of Energy. The... And I'll tell you a couple of things I was surprised by this. But anyway, what we're trying to do, what they're trying to do with this chart is look at two kinds of technologies. Dispatchable technologies. Let me see if I can get this up here. And non-dispatchable technologies. And you can see here that when you try to look at... You're going to try to look at all four aspects of investment. Transmission investment, variable overhead, and, you know, maintenance costs, levelized capital costs, and fixed operations and maintenance, you know. So... And then you look at non-dispatchable technologies and you ask yourself, OK, what... You know, what... How do these compare based on the data we know today? I'm not saying some of these technologies can't get more efficient over time. And I think it's very interesting to look at the comparison of the dispatchable technologies and the non-dispatchable technologies. Most renewable fuel is non-dispatchable, right? Right. It is non-dispatchable because it is... It's intermittent and it's unpredictable. You know, I think solar is not really unpredictable. It's pretty predictable when the sun goes down in Hawaii. But I think what's interesting about this is you can take a look at, for example, conventional coal, advanced coal. And I think the main competitor here on the mainland with renewables is conventional combined cycle and advanced combined cycle. And when we say combined cycle, these are natural gas-fired power plants which have the capacity to ramp up and ramp down relatively quickly. And they can operate at a high level of efficiency running natural gas. Now, hidden in this data, hidden in this data is a series of assumptions on fuel costs, right? Natural gas is relatively cheap in the United States. Everything would argue it's going to remain cheap. We just... our reserves are so massive. And when you compare dispatchable to non-dispatchable technology and you include... And I think there's pretty good news in this for some of the renewable folks. And that is the transmission investment does not seem to be that high. But the transmission investment is relatively small. Why would it be different? Why would it be the transmission investment be different at all from transmission investment for fossil fuel generation? Well, in many cases for the existing infrastructure, if you have distributed energy, you're going to need more power lines. You're just going to need a different distribution network. I see. And that distribution network can be more expensive. That makes sense. And it's not... But I do think the... What's interesting is the O&M costs and the variable O&M costs, including fuel. You see the non-dispatchable technologies in order to meet the requirements of having this availability through batteries or backup fuels. They must go ahead and spend money on backup fuel. The other interesting thing is their operation and maintenance costs are quite high. And this is... So you often see these bids in which people have a very low... When they're bidding, they're bidding variable costs. Solar, whatever. But you're not seeing the full cost, either because the government's paying for it or it subsidized directly, or the capital cost was taken care of in some other mechanism. And what you're talking about is batteries, other kinds of storage, and the electronics can make it firm. Yeah. Right. But I would say the battery stuff is not in here yet. OK, really, I don't think EIA really thinks we have good data yet on batteries or that. We're at the point where we can cost them out in any reasonable way. So the chart... This is even without... The chart that you were showing a minute ago for the costs on fossil fuel versus renewables. On the renewable side, it does not include the infrastructure, the cost of putting the infrastructure in to make the renewables dispatchable. Or does it? So, no, it does. It does include this. For the non-dispatchable technologies, these, in order for them to be usable in an effective way, they have to have backup. And that's included in some of this. And you can see that in the variable of O&M costs, which are actually not... Can you see that chart again? I'm going to take a look at that chart again. Yeah, so I would say, yes, that is not actually... Those charts really just include the transmission investment fixed O&M and levelized capital. You're right, it's not... We don't have the backup fuel costs in these yet. Well, when I get out of this, taking together with the chart about California renewable, the cost of developing renewables in California is that you have to spend a fair amount of money on developing renewable. We always knew that. But then you also have to build that into a comparative pricing analysis. And I'm not sure we've done that.  And because they're trying to get something done and they can't say, well, you know, this is kind of risky, it might be expensive. It's much better to just say, look, this is better than fly spread. You should go for this. I promise you, it's going to be fine. That's the nature of politics, isn't it?  Energy has to be long term planning. And the time is not necessarily mixed. I do think it would be a lot better to just try to educate the public. I mean, actually, people, you know, the citizens, they're willing to take some risks, but they just don't want to be. They don't want to be holding the bag all the time. This doesn't work out. So how does what does that translate for Hawaii? I mean, how does that come down for us? You should ask that. Let's go to our last chart. So if you look at this, OK, we do have it. Yes, here it is. Yeah, OK. So I think it's very this is a very interesting chart because it shows basically this chart argues that LNG, you see, they had the Oahu, Maui and the Big Island. They showed LNG coming in at about 20 cents, you know, kilowatt hours, sort of a read best estimate. And they showed a huge variation in in fuel oil, right, the cost of fuel oil. But the 24.7 cents, the kilowatt hour for 2014, I did show the data on the right for June of every year from 2014 to 2018. And it's important to understand this number moves around. So that 24.7 cents for June of 2014 was a very high point. You know, low sulfur fuel oil, right? The company, you know, why use it? Basically, you're paying the same price, the same wholesale price, a non-tax price for diesel fuel. And but notice the price in 2017 and 2060, 2050. So the price came down 2080. The average price is around 220. And I believe next year it's going to be less. So, yes, the thing you need to ask yourself. Here on this chart first, if you were to use the LNG, could you get a contract in which the stability of the price? You see, the point estimate appears to be higher than the distributed renewables. But the chart doesn't describe the risk around the renewables, except around the power sources, except in two areas. One is they've got one here with a battery technology of 19 to 24.8 cents. Those are numbers someone pulled out of a different part of their body. They have no idea what those two costs are going to be. And you have these LNG costs, which appear to be somewhat higher than the low point in fuel oil, but higher than the high point. And it seems to me that the question that should be asked about all this is is this really a chart we want to use to decide what we're going to do with power in Hawaii or should we try to peel this back a bit and ask ourselves, OK, what kind of risk profile do we face in these different fuel choices, particularly if we're going to go with 100 percent minimum? And I think that that is a much more sophisticated and difficult question to present to the public, which is, you know, if we give up a portfolio approach, a portfolio, which would include maybe some LNG, some some fuel oils and coal and renewables, if we go to 100 percent renewables, are we subjecting ourselves to a higher risk of a price spike? Well, let me throw a factor at you on the very on that very point. You know, if you if you spend the money, build the infrastructure, build the electronics, build all that storage and you have the renewables pumping out, you know, renewable fuel at a at a pretty at a pretty consistent rate, consistent price, you know, you've achieved a certain level of consistency for planning purposes on the renewables, OK? But if you keep on if you keep on using global supplies, and I guess that would include not only petroleum, but also LNG, where where the cost is going to be determined by factors that are completely outside our control, who knows what the global market will bring. It's geopolitical, you know, anything could happen any day on either petroleum or LNG, then that's that's really a certain amount of risk. Right now, it's less than $50. But who knows what would happen in the Middle East, which is we know volatile, always volatile, and for that matter, LNG. Well, LNG is mostly from the US, I guess. But if if LNG were also subject to international risks, then we'd have a fair amount of risk on the fossil fuel side, where we have a containable, predictable risk on the renewable side. Am I right? Well, I would disagree that you have a containable, predictable risk. You're dealing with new technologies. You cannot at all say that you know what the battery costs are. You do not know. You do not know whether you're going to get an unusual failure rate. You have mechanisms, of course, to deal with this risk. You can have long term contracts. You can have you can enter the futures market. There are lots of ways you can deal with price risk, even on world traded commodities. And I guess my my advice would be each one of these comes with a set of risks. And much like investing in the stock market, I would not put all my money into Apple, OK, I would have a diversified portfolio. And I think but it depends, you know, if in fact the commitment to renewable power is a kind of religious imperative. OK, I get it. It's a religious imperative. But if, in fact, you are holding and you are acting like a public utility commission and you are worried about the you have a certain public financial fiduciary interest to your consuming public. Well, I would suggest that someone should take a hard look at the risks of all those alternatives and ask themselves, maybe we need a diversified portfolio. Well, we always talked about that. And as Marina, the previous chair of the Commission, and I remember Josh Strickler gave a talk at which we were we were present, said, you got to avoid having the caterpillar in the salad, which means you can't have a surprise in there. And one surprise, by the way, to go to your point, one surprise is if we if we buy batteries, a lot of those batteries are going to be made offshore. And if we have trouble on tariffs, for example, or geopolitical factors that affect the price of manufacturing them and buying them from countries like China, for example, which manufactures a lot of batteries these days and a lot of electronics that we can use to to control costs. We don't buy the way we don't know what's going to happen on that either. Do we know that? And that's before that's before you talk about the environmental consequences of producing all this lithium and all these batteries and the recycling and disposable of these batteries. That should be part of the equation as well. I'm just I mean, I would say that we're going 100 percent. If somebody came to look, we're going 100 percent with fuel oil. I said, well, I don't think that's a good idea. But if we're going 100 percent with solar and wind, I'd say, well, that's probably not a good idea either. I would say that you know that some conservatism and caution should be the watchword as you proceed with the planning because you also are going to lose opportunities to save a lot of money when the price of oil is low. Yes, you face a risk when the price of oil is high, but you're also losing the benefit of low oil prices, which is actually what has been happening since, if you look at this data, since about 2016. Yeah, very interesting, Lou. Lou Pulirisi, E-princk joins us from Washington. We'll talk again soon. Aloha, Lou.


Yep. All right. We'll call the February 21st regular select board meeting to order now. The changes to the agenda. We're going to have a potential volunteer for the Cemetery Committee. Yes. I guess. Anything else Vince? Nope. That's the only Indian. Any public comment? All right. Hearing none. Hearing none will deal with the addition right now. The addition of. What do we got two openings on the cemetery commission at this point in time? Yes. I don't know how active they are. Looks like two of the openings are up this year anyway. Gerald Stoff had volunteered to be on the cemetery commission. So I think we could use some energy in the town. Stop. Stop. You ready for a motion? Yeah. There's a letter. Okay. Make the motion to elect. Excuse me, Gerald Stoff. As a member of the cemetery commission. Second. Second. Any comment? And that that appointment would expire at March 31st. 2025. Yes. Any comment? All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Yeah, I would. I would recommend that we. John and I won't be here, but I'd recommend to the rest of the board right away to start talking about some of these 11 summits areas that are in the town of Maryland that we are doing currently active. I haven't come into the first meeting. Next on the agenda. Looks like. We got Pete Kelly street name change request. Peter, you there? Looks like he left. Oh, he's in the way back in the way. Right now. Hey, Pete. Are you there? You're on mute Pete. Pete Kelly. Hey, Pete, we just called you up on the agenda. So you're here to talk about the change of your road. Yes, sir. He's looking to change it from Mall Street to Porter place. I don't know if you're familiar with that process, Brad. Is there a public hearing? Yeah. I think all you need to do is. Research on the border place name or 911 purposes and all that. And it's, there's no conflicts at all with that with the state. So it's, it's good to move forward. What's that perspective? No, I think just have to do the research to make sure there's no conflict. And then the board is free to approve that. Are you familiar with that process, Brad? All you need to do is, um, is have events taken. Make sure there's no problems with interference in other towns. Done. That's been done. And. It almost seems like I don't think there's any, I don't think there's any, um, Need for a warning on this. Okay. There's basically two residents on that street. I have a letter from. Is the other resident. That's on. Mount street. Supporting that change as well. We know what the purpose of the changes. The conflict with other towns. Okay. So the letter in here says that. I don't know what the purpose of the changes. Is. Is. Order. Order or not. Mount street. Mary. Okay. And that shares the same tip. Oh yeah. I'm a complex. Completely reasonable. And where I'm just curious where the border. Place came from. So our curiosity. Mr. Kelly curiosity. That's an old dog of mine that the neighbor grew up with. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Thank you. Tyler is Randy's. I make the motion to approve the street name change as requested. By Mr. Peter Kelly for him and his. Neighbor. From Mount street to the effective name of Porter place. I'll second that. Any, any comment. Thank you. Thank you. Motion carries. Marvin road plowing resolution discussion. Thanks, Pete. Thank you guys very much. Have a good night. Good evening. I give a quick summary on that. We could as well. Pretty involved in this portion. I won't go into the history, but since the last meeting. We had paid a visit up there to Mr. Noyes and we walked, walked the area and we looked at the area. We looked at the area. We looked at the area. We looked at the area. We looked at the area together that the existing turnaround site would be extended. He moved his fence to the back of that and. Put up two gates that could be open in the winter. To push the snow all the way through and back. So there would be no more interference with the plow trucks with the graders during any, any season. Up there. We also agreed that. In the summer, the back half of that extended turnaround. And we also agreed that. We also agreed that. We agreed that. We agreed that. We agreed that. We agreed that. We agreed that because the only thing at that point would be a greater that needed to be turned around. In addition to that, I'm going to make the recommendation to the board that we buy the two gates. We're going to help them install it. We're going to help them with the fence. As we, as we extend the turnaround. But I would recommend it. As a good faith from the town. We go ahead and get the two gates as well. We're going to get the two gates for sure. Okay. And what will the cost of those two gates be approximately about 200. Between $250 and $300. That's reasonable. Eat your total. They're a 12 foot gates for 24 foot spanned. And they're about 130 bucks plus or minus attractor supply. And what have we gotten for solid agreement? I sent this to Mr. Noyes via email. Ask him if he had any concerns about anything on there. And I got an email back said that was fine with all of that. Okay. I mean, I think this will eliminate. Who's, who's a. Balder blame for the maintenance of the road up there and take, take that stress off, Tim. You, anybody else future in the town doing that. So thank the purchase of the gates is kind of important in that process as well. Yeah. I'm just curious because of my recklessness on my tractor. If he, if he or someone was to back into the gates is responsible for him. Right. So I think we would want clarification of that. If we own them, then they need to be maintained in there. They would be out of Berlin property that we would maintain. And if we, for some reason, that's what I would want clarification on for sure. It's not a large charge. It's just one of those things where, you know, you're trying to snow and all of a sudden you. Reckon a whole point behind this is to take everything away and clarify and yeah. Okay. So very good point. And then like as far as the walking and unlocking, but quite honestly, the opening and closing of the gate. Yeah. Yeah. Either or they actually, they don't where they're located. They don't need to be locked. I understand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the whole purpose of that. Perfect. Yep. How's the board feel about that? The move. I'm fine with that. Are you fine with that as well, Brad? Second. Second. Second. Okay. Any discussion? So just, just to be clear. Because we were at in a discussion, the motion would be to approve the recommended course of action by the town and to purchase two gates. To help the landowner install. Or to install. In the turnaround spot. And extending the turnaround. And extend it. Okay. And I'll reiterate that. I'm seconding that motion. Any additional. Additional discussion. Those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Approval of license permits vouchers. Applications. I make the motion to approve payroll warrant 22 dash 16. And I'll reiterate that I'm seconding that motion. Any additional. Additional discussion. Those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. No. Aye. Aye. All in favor say aye. Modified documents. On this paper the cash 60 preparation roll from January 30th. 2022. To February 12th of this year paid on February 16th. This year in the amount of 45,000. Those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All right, motion carries. All right, approval of minutes of the meetings for December 20th, 2021, January 3rd, 2022, and January 17th, 2022. So these are the minutes that we revised to indicate on there, and Christie did a good job to identify everybody that was remote. Yeah, I saw that, so we'll move to that. I make the motion to approve all three of the minutes with just the exceptions to the last two. The date, the year needs to be changed on the January 3rd and the one following that. Other than that, I make the motion to approve all three with those corrections. I would second that, good catch. Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Round table, we got Vince. I just like to thank you to the leading board members for that great first year for me. Working with you guys, interesting as well. I appreciate it, a good learning experience from private to public as well, so thank you. Thank you, Vince. John. I just said one comment about the trail, the new Vast trail, and I think overall, I think it's gone pretty well from what I've seen and what I've heard, and there doesn't seem to be any racing up and down the road that people are scared of or anything like that. I think the biggest problem was parking, and I'm not sure that had anything to do with some machines after we put up the signs, but that's something that we'll continue to work on. So I think, I think it looked pretty good. And I saw a lot more cross-country skiers then. Yeah. And I thought we would. So that was good. The second thing I wanted to bring up, which Rosemary's not in attendance, and I didn't think anything of it until I walked in and saw it closed on Friday's side for the town clerk's office. I thought as part of the request to make a second time, a second person full-time in that office, we were gonna have some kind of open office hours. Well, Corinne is here as well. Yeah, I don't want to make Corinne's. Technically with the signs of her balls, but they have been here on Fridays, and there have been people that have been granted access to the balls when they come in. They don't typically schedule a lot on Fridays for that. So it's more of just not hoping to the public. They're getting down to work that quickly in the week. Okay, thank you. And they're here for staff. And at the end of the month on Fridays, because we have staff. Okay. They're here for that. Kenny? Kenny, thanks for having table. I thought I already spoke. Okay. Justin, this isn't the package that needs to go around these signs. We just wanted a little package. I also wanted to thank you both for being on the board and also for your representative being here tonight. And just all of your passion and persistence and involvement and wish you both the very best. Thank you. Rod, you got anything for round table? No, I'm all set and thank you for your service. Thank you. Dave? No, I'm all set and I'd like to thank, it's been a good first year with both of you guys. Would wish you guys would have stayed a little longer, but thanks a lot. Thank you. Yeah, I would just like to thank everybody for letting me have fun here for a couple of years and Kenny for showing up and having fun being put on the spot last minute, making a great public speech. John, I don't know, maybe back. It's fun. If you join me in the community, it's so much fun here. But thank you. No executive station anticipated, right? Oh, sir. And entertain that motion. I made the motion. Second. All in the discussion. Those in favor? Aye. Aye. We're adjourned. Thank you. Don't forget to vote.


We'd like to take you on a journey to a land filled with challenge and endless opportunity To a place where you can make a difference and accomplish your dreams Welcome to the future The future holds unique and exciting opportunities for students in science and technology Engineering business Medicine and health computer science and mathematics and the liberal arts All these opportunities are waiting for you with the country's largest employer the united states government Government career opportunities are available from coast to coast and in most parts of the world Imagine the difference you can make with the government of the united states Preserving our environment Discovering cures for human illness Exploring the far reaches of outer space Government positions have all the benefits of careers with private corporations Unlimited opportunity for advancement A wide choice of locations Unique and satisfying lifestyles Exposure to resources Plus a special sense of satisfaction Knowing that you are doing something valuable with your skill The federal government is comprised of numerous agencies each with special functions and objectives Within these agencies there are doors to opportunity for every academic skill The united states leads the world in scientific discovery Exciting careers exist in every scientific and technological field U.S. government scientists have access to unique technology and world class facilities Scientists employed by the federal government have won numerous Nobel prizes in chemistry physiology and medicine The department of defense alone has a large-scale research and development program with 70 000 employees In 104 different laboratories. 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It's you and me We're the ones who pay for this so we want to be as frugal as we can Because ultimately we are responsible to the public Creative computer scientists and mathematicians are necessary to meet the needs of an information society The federal government depends on the efficiency and speed of computer technology Government computer specialists are involved in a fascinating range of challenges Developing new flight analysis systems for the federal aviation administration Managing the data of the Library of Congress Designing practical applications for the theories of robotics This is the robotics laboratory at Goddard Space Flight Center My main duty here is to design implement and test software for various robotics applications I'm a graduate from Loyola College with a degree in computer science And my specialty here in the lab is software engineering The great part about my job is that I have access to technology and equipment that I couldn't get anywhere else It gives me the ability to be very creative Gives me flexibility And gives me a real sense of accomplishment being able to use my skills I really like my job working for the united states government and I think you will too Think of the future that's waiting for you Think of the challenges And the variety And the opportunities that exist with the united states government Where do you go from here? 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Welcome to Amsterdam and KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2023. Join John Furrier, Savannah Peterson, Rob Streche, and UPSCOT. As the Cube covers the largest conference on Kubernetes, CloudNative, and open source technologies together with developers, engineers, and IT leaders from around the globe. Live coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2023 is made possible by the support of Red Hat, the CNCF, and its ecosystem partners. Good morning, favorite nerd crowd, and welcome back to Amsterdam. We are at KubeCon, CloudNativeCon EU, and I am joined by my fabulous co-host and analyst. I've got Rob on my right. I've got John on my left. I'm Savannah Peterson, and this morning we have a very special guest who's going to bring a lot of insights. He's a contributor and a total baller. Jason Bloomberg, welcome to the show. How are you doing? Very good. Thank you very much. Awesome. I'm so excited that you're here. You've been spending a lot of time. We love sitting here on set, but we don't get to interface with people who aren't guest very often. So I'm really excited. You mentioned you've been spending a lot of time in the startup zone. What's hot? Well, it's great to see that there's greater focus on day two, that is full production operations. One of the challenges Kubernetes is it takes a lot of ramping up. Planning at day zero, ramping up is day one. But day two is where the rubber hits the road, right? Companies who are in full production, have multiple clusters distributed globally, and thus require infrastructure that can support that in production in a live environment. There's increasing focus on that, both from the vendors as well as the attendees here. So we've been talking a lot about the tipping point and the momentum. It feels very different at this, KubeCon. Do you feel like the ecosystem has matured to that next level? Well, I think what's really different about the feeling here is that almost 60 percent of the people are first timers at KubeCon. So as a result, that 60 percent, they're not the vendors who always come to these shows. They are the enterprise end users who are either infrastructure people or increasingly the application people, application developers. And that is a new audience for KubeCon. For the most part, it's been all about infrastructure. So you have the infrastructure vendors and infrastructure engineers talking about infrastructure. But the whole point to the infrastructure is building running applications. So you can't really get to that until we have that application-centric audience. And this is the first KubeCon I've been to that has really a critical mass of application people at it. Jason, I want to get your thoughts on your discoveries and conversations around what their people are talking about. Because obviously it's that tale of two KubeCons right now. We were talking about this on our first day and second day. The submissions for speakers were as of November. And Chad GPT took the world by storm in January, February. So a lot of AI conversations in the hallways, but not so much on the tracks. What's some of the conversations you're seeing around the companies, around what they're focused on. Because this is like an infrastructure crowd. Obviously the practitioner side, day two, means more operationalizing it. But AI is now in there. I was just talking to Sajiv, who was on early, a former gardener analyst, about data. This is not a data-centric crowd. Is there a lot of data conversations? What are you hearing? What's some of the AI buzz, if any, or is it, was it muted? I actually think what's remarkable is that there isn't a lot of AI buzz. You would sort of expect generative AI to be the hot story. But that's not really what's going on here at KubeCon. If anything, there's less talk about AI or generative AI in particular than you might think. I've talked to a few vendors who rushed some sort of generative AI thing into production, but for the most part, this is a very, I guess, very down-to-earth realistic crowd. And this is something that's been true of KubeCon all along, is that these people are focused on technology that actually works, that can run today, that actually meets customer needs today, as opposed to a lot of sort of marketing hand-waving. So, even though- I mean, chatGPT isn't, I wouldn't say hand-waving, but there is a lot of hand-waving. I mean, the prompt, it does, it's pretty cool, but it does have hallucinations, Rana. So, these are infrastructure people. Rob, we've talked about security.  Well, I think what's been interesting is that I think over multiple guests and the few times I've been off the set to talk to people, it's been security is really still an open issue. And I think to your point about day two, especially how do you productionize apps in a secure way? And that's been another theme that I've seen outside of some of the big guys who've been here a lot, but even they are talking about everybody has their security bent to what they're doing as well. Are you seeing that with the others and the startups? Well, absolutely, but that's nothing new, right? Security has always been a top priority and it's part of every conversation to some extent. So that's important and it continues to be important, but it's not something that's really new. That's a change from previous years. Well, I wanted to bring up the AI thing, mainly because I want to get your reactions to what you're hearing. Because I can agree with you. Actually, we've been talking a lot about AI only as a frame, which is trying to understand where it will land, how it will meander around, what it will be focused on. But to your point about day two operations, this is not just testing and dev, it's like full ops. So there's no tolerance for BS and whatnot, right? Well, yeah, exactly. So, and it's one of the reasons why I like coming to KubeCon is that it's a very low BS show, right? You're not going to run it. Low code, low BS. Well, you're not going to run it. There's never been talk of blockchain here, which I love, right? Oh, bless. If there's ever a blockchain at a show, it's like, okay, that's a BS show. So this is nice to have a no BS show. And I think with Genitive AI, obviously- I feel a little bit of BS on the cube. Okay, that's fine. Genitive AI, obviously, has very impressive capabilities, but it also has sort of that dark side, right? The hallucination. I 100% agree with you. And we're just figuring out some of its negative implications. So yes, you could very well apply it to, you know, I don't know, day two operations. You know, how can you configure very broad, complex set of technologies and you might leverage AI to optimize that. But the last thing you want is for AI to go off in the wrong direction, right? And recommend something that doesn't make sense. So everybody would be very careful about doing that. I think that's a good point. I think that's one of the reasons why we took a kind of a frame approach, because I look at AI as more of the weather coming. We like the forecasters. We're sitting in the sunshine right now getting the work done. We know it's coming. The question is, where will it land? I always say security is one area, but like, if you connect forward day two operations and saying, okay, assume there's some augmentation. This community knows automation. They like automation, no policy. Where would AI fit if it had to fit anywhere? Like, what would it, like, what would you imagine that being if you had to kind of connect the dots? Assuming it rolls forward, everything's kind of going on, where would AI help this community? Well, AI has played in a very important part in anomaly detection as part of the AI ops story and that's been a story for a number of years. So that's well established, right? That you can, if you have a large quantity of operational data, you can pick out the anomalies and AI's very good at that. Machine learning in particular, you don't need generative AI for that. The generative AI story could easily help with the overall context of configuration in a complex environment. So you could, instead of having an engineer have to figure out what command lines to type over and over again, they could say, well, I want to set this up. You could say in English, just expressing themselves, I want to set up this environment to achieve these goals. Here's my data sovereignty goals. Here's my security goals. Here's my latency goals. And then hopefully the AI is smart enough to configure it properly. Or maybe it'll go off into left field to do something complete off the walls. You don't know, right? Well, so I kind of want to dig in here a little bit because building on your weather analogy, I mean, yeah, there's a forecast and we can see it coming, but we've had the NASA climate scientists on the show and I got to ask them quite literally, why is the weather so hard to predict? And the answer is the butterfly effect. Anything can happen. And I feel like we're very much in, you know, I'm a little more nervous about some of this, I think, than some of my co-hosts because I understand the dark side and the bias pretty well. I'm wondering what sort of safeguards we're going to end up putting in place and the governance that's going to be necessary to make sure that nothing nefarious happens with this. I mean, it's a very much a wild, wild west stage. No one is an expert yet right now on what's going on. It's all too brand new. Have you seen anything? And this doesn't have to be AI centric. Have you seen anything at the show that really surprised you this year? Well, not specific to AI, but there are some other trends that are new trends. As you talked about security, one of the important security trends is the software bill of materials or SBOM, right? Or just dealing with supply chain security in general. That's been a problem since the sonar type and the log for J reaches. But now with the US federal government mandating their cybersecurity program, that's coming up in June and then the year of his doing something similar. It's now urgent, right? That the SBOM, especially for regulated industries. So there are vendors here that are focusing on that and SBOM is slipping into a lot of the messages. So another key theme is platform engineering. It's a very- We've talked about it a bit. It's Rob's favorite topic. And a number of vendors are talking about that. And so it's interesting, on the one hand you have the platform folks saying, well, our platform is great for platform engineering. Use us or incorporate us into your platform. And then there are other vendors who are saying, wait a minute, we want to be on the golden path. And this is interesting. I haven't seen this before, right? The golden path is essentially the established set of best practices that a platform engineering approach will not mandate, but recommend, right? You can always diverge from it, but it's going to be easiest to follow that golden path. So now all the vendors who have a piece of the story, whether it's CICD or the day two operations are saying, you know, I want to be on the golden path so that any platform engineering approach that you take will include us in that best practice approach. And so that's interesting. So everybody wants to be one of the selected golden children of the platform engineering. Yeah, I think that one is pretty interesting in that there are, to your exact point, there are so many different pieces. And I think it also just tying it back to, because I think AI will help in this space in the platform engineering space in particular, especially with SRE work and some of the other stuff and tracing and observability, not to mention the security aspects of it. I think the one thing that I'm finding interesting from the people around is getting a big enough data set of their own data, so that becomes their IP. Because I think to the earlier problems with open, very large open models, I think it's how can you have your own data that gives you that? Have you been seeing different companies really pushing in on collecting that data because it's a GDPR and everything else has some very gray areas in some of that data? Well, the story around telemetry data is maturing quickly, right? Open telemetry is an open source project that is really ramping up very quickly. It's getting a lot of adoption and acceptance. And that now relates to operational telemetry. So logs and traces and events and metrics. But that's only part of the story, right? There are other kinds of data that fall outside of telemetry. And that's where it gets interesting, right? You could consider essentially all Kubernetes metadata as being data that you could feed your AI. So all of the YAML files, all of the Helm charts, all of the manifests, think of all of those as data. Now feed those into your generative AI and now you have essentially a large language model that will basically converse about how best to configure your environment, right? Maybe, or maybe it'll go off, or maybe even troubleshoot it. And I think that's- Well, actually, it has to be known configuration. It can't be like, do something for me. It's got to be the fundamental Lego building blocks, not so much. I want to ask you on the platform side, because you just brought that up, the platform engineering. On the keynote this morning, the co-chair, a partner who was on with you yesterday, she asked the question, how is Kubernetes doing with platform teams? There's a whole team discussion, what's the right make of a team? But the question was, is Kubernetes delivering on its promises and where is it working and where does it need improvement? How would you answer that? Well, Kubernetes is becoming, I guess, part of the fabric of enterprise IT infrastructure, right? So we're still talking about it as a thing, but I think we're getting to the point where we're going to be taking it more for granted. The same way we take TCPIP for granted, or now we're taking Linux for granted. We just assume that it's there. We could talk about it if we need to and everybody here knows about Linux, it's an open source crowd. I think Kubernetes is sort of following that pattern. We're just going to assume it's in place. And when we talk to some of these enterprise Kubernetes end-user companies, it's basically just part of how modern approach were for deploying and provisioning application capabilities generally, right? Why would you use any other approach, right? Now that it's still part of the infrastructure and you have to layer on a lot of other things. It's a layer cake, but you're absolutely right. But it's just, there's no reason not to use Kubernetes if you want to deploy enterprise software at scale. So, Rob, I want to get your thoughts because I'm looking at the Twitter feed right now. They actually have a graph and they have simplicity, scalability, extensibility, reliability, and portability. That's the rank of the who gets the most stars of gold stars as a performance. Simplicity gets the lowest grades, obviously. Decreasing complexity, number one complaint. Scalability, it's got three stars. And extensibility, five stars, and reliability, portability, five stars. So, you can see kind of the trend patterns. The simplicity question is huge. We've seen a lot of managed services come out of Kubernetes. We've heard teams want to focus on other, more critical DevOps or DevSecOps things and can someone else manage my Kubernetes for me? What do you guys see in terms of that simplicity piece? How does that get solved? Yeah, I think what's really interesting is that portability also got five stars where I don't look at portability as being solved yet. And I think going between different flavors of Kubernetes is still incredibly hard. I experienced that most recently and I can tell you it's not easy. So how many stars would you give it? I would probably give it two on the portability part of it. Scalability and I don't, was it serviceable? I don't know. Reliability, extensibility, scalability, simplicity. Yeah, so simplicity I think is still, it's when you're, I think it was said very well by one of our guests from Red Hat, the fact that we're still showing YAML files on a keynote is ridiculous. I mean, if you want to- Can I just say amen to that? This is one of those things where we very much agree. Yeah, we got to jump the shark here and like really get to a usable system where you don't have to write in YAML and upload it and then figure out what you have a typo in there and stuff like that. I think that to me, we still need to get there. I think there are some people on the floor who are bringing that. I think it's an evolution. We saw it with VMware, where everybody wanted to use CLI for years and years and oh, then we'll use Power CLI and then it moved into the sphere and into the UI and I think that's when the people aspect that they talked about in the keynote yesterday, more bigger tent type of discussions, people with different assets, platform engineering becoming the new IT. Do you agree on that portability piece? What do you think about those grades? I mean, they're self grading themselves so everyone always thinks they're excellent. Yeah, I think we ever came up with that on this. Yeah, it's a little bias, maybe a little bias. Yeah, I really wanted to make sure that Ildy was at the end of every word. And so they, limit, they... Little marketing sprinkled it. Hyper, a few other important things. For instance, dynamic capabilities, I think that is a critically important part, right? So the way I see Kubernetes is it delivers two things very well. It delivers scale and it delivers dynamic software capabilities, right? The ephemerality of the microservices enables organizations to deploy software much more dynamically and enables software to behave more dynamically, right? Because of the auto scaling built into Kubernetes. So, and that's something that delivers a whole different set of capabilities for software that it can scale up and scale down and it enables large organizations with multiple teams working in parallel to be able to deploy software in a consistent way without getting into each other's way. Now, that requires a lot of moving parts. It requires a get ops mentality. It requires the CI CD being placed. But all of these pieces have to fall into place. This is all part of the cloud native story. It's that once you have all these pieces in place, then you get scalability and dynamic capabilities at scale. And I think those are more important. Portability is a piece of the story, right? Workload portability is a priority for some organizations, but I don't see that as being high on the list compared to some of these other things. Well, one of the things I want to get your thoughts on before you go, I know you got to get out, but this show I just saw on Twitter, the data backup and recovery is being discussed. Now, Rob, when you hear a show talking about data protection, it's mainstream. I mean, this is like a vendor show now. This is not just Kubernetes conference. IBM's here, Microsoft's, Intel, Portworx. This is a trade show. I mean, this is like an industry show. This is like a big deal. I mean, it is quite literally an industry show. I mean, this is not just KubeCon for developers of open source. It's become VMworld almost. Well, it's a really big show, yeah.  That last one, they don't even call it VMworld anymore. It's called VMWare Explore, they downsized it. Yeah, they downsized it, but this one's being upside. So this is to the trends of mainstream, so it's like, when I see stuff, when I start to see some of the stuff we see at these shows, it moves out of like, nerd developer configuring, but yet, YAML files are still on the keynote, yeah. Well, geez. You know, Rob, just a quick question for you, because you mentioned it, many different flavors of Kubernetes. What does Kubernetes taste like? It's sweet, not sour. I love it. Jason, last question for you. We do a very important segment here on theCUBE all about the swag on the show floor. Have you had, you've seen all the booths, especially in the startup section, standing out, differentiating, very important when you're trying to attract attention of these enterprise customers that are here. Do you have a favorite piece of swag from the show? Well, personally, I don't collect swag anymore and my kids are grown, so there's no need for it, but the one that stood out for me, there are these Lego kits, Lego Star Wars kits, and I saw the R2-D2 one, and it's for ages 18 and up. So it's like, here's a Lego kit that is designed, not- You've got to be a voting age? You can't be a child. You have to be a voting age, Jesus. So what's Lego thinking? If they're building stuff for adults that are only for adults, it's like, what's this world coming to? It's their nation. We need to liberate the Legos for the kids. Yeah, I was gonna say, we can head to their head, let's have Legos for the kids. Wow, I think kids would like this stuff. Yeah, well, I'm with you. Everything should be for the kids, for everyone of every age. There's no need for ageism. Jason, thank you so much for joining us. You were the perfect start to the day. John, Roff, always a pleasure.  You're 18 plus, you should play with it. All right, we'll let you go and nurse your wounds. Thank you all for tuning in to day three of KubeCon EU coverage here in Amsterdam. My name is Savannah Peterson. You're watching theCUBE, the leading source for emerging tech news.


Hang it Far Nighttime in southern Afghanistan can be dangerous with mountains and wide-open land allowing the Taliban and other insurgents to roam freely and Sometimes spotting them can be difficult even with night vision So that's when they call in Sergeant Jonathan Speth a mortarman attest to ghost between four to with the second category regiment And tonight his mission is to light up the night sky to make sure that there's no enemy forces out doing anything shady or Trying to disrupt any activity that we have planned for a calf or a Fulvincy Firing illumination rounds are very important to the operations at Kandahar airfield or calf for short Not only does it show the enemy that we're out keeping and watch fly over the area It'll also prevent future attacks on calf fire Five four three One and when it comes to actually firing the mortars Speth said it's pretty simple essentially how it works out is we will have a direction towards the target and Set up a reference point that we know will not change position that we can aim off of in order to shift our Cannon to hit anything that needs to be either illuminated or destroyed at that time He remembers the first time he fired a mortar around first time I ever shot one was back in basic training I was one of the ones selected for the 120 millimeter cannon and once that first round goes off though It it's definitely a feeling that you won't forget easily ever again Reporting from Kandahar province Afghanistan. I'm Army Sergeant Carl Greenwell


Hi, Psych2Go family. Welcome back to another video. Before we begin, we would like to thank you all for the love and support you've given us. Here at Psych2Go, our mission is to make psychology and self-help videos more accessible to everyone. Now, back to the video. Have you ever been with someone you thought was the one, but then the relationship somehow ended? Do you think you might have hurt them or damaged your bond with them without even realizing it? Here are eight harmful behaviors that you need to avoid. Number one, you spend too much time together. Did you know that spending too much time with your partner can actually be bad for your relationship? Sometimes, when you do everything together all the time with your partner, you may end up being pulled away from your other important relationships, like your friends and family. It may even keep you from pursuing your own goals and interests. When you start to feel like you're losing your individuality and independence, you may end up blaming and resenting your partner for it. Number two, you lack an openness to experience. Have you ever found yourself falling into a routine together, closing off from new experiences? A lack of openness to experience can cause you to lose all the excitement in your relationship. When you stop trying new things or let yourself be spontaneous and free together, you may end up following a rigid and predictable pattern. This may keep you and your partner from feeling fulfilled and satisfied with your relationship. Number three, you lack open communication. Are you afraid to tell your partner something in fear that they'll get angry at you? Or do you roll your eyes and treat their honesty with sarcasm and dismissiveness? These are kinds of behaviors that can drive a wedge between couples and foster secrecy, dishonesty, and distrust. When you lack the ability to openly communicate with your partner and speak freely with them, your relationship may take a turn for the worse. After all, communication is key in a healthy and enduring relationship. Number four, you lie to keep the peace. Have there been moments where you feel tempted to lie to keep a fight from breaking out? Instead of hiding or lying, you should be able to communicate honestly with them. A strong and loving relationship can't be built on the foundation of lies, no matter how small or well-intentioned the lie is. Without honesty, there can be no emotional intimacy, and without that, you're likely to drift apart from each other. Number five, you run away from fights. Did you know that it's actually quite healthy for couples to fight from time to time? Having conflicts shows that you and your partner can be honest and open with each other. When you resolve the issues in a way that doesn't hurt or attack the other person, then you end up strengthening your relationship. On the other hand, running away from conflict won't solve anything. You may end up bottling up your negative emotions and resenting each other in your relationship. Number six, you act passive-aggressive. Do you sometimes avoid your partner, tell them backhanded compliments, or give them the cold shoulder? These are examples of passive-aggressiveness, and it's a maladaptive way of dealing with your problems in a relationship. If you or your partner act passive-aggressive to each other instead of confronting your issues or being direct about your wants and needs, it shows emotional immaturity, and it may turn your relationship toxic. Number seven, you nag and criticize. Do you nag or criticize your partner a lot? This is a way of asserting your dominance and being unsupportive of them. It sends them a message that you feel superior to them, and that they should always do as you say. In a healthy relationship, you should respect your partner and give them the freedom to make their own decisions. Constantly nagging them, especially about the things they enjoy, can lead to resentment. Number eight, you're no longer affectionate. Do you keep that romantic spark alive? Being neglectful of your partner's emotional needs and not showing enough affection is one of the quickest ways to ruin a relationship. While it's normal for the initial excitement and passion to dwindle over time, it's still important to remind your partner that you love them. Whether it's buying gifts or just giving them a kiss and a hug, showing any kind of affection is important to a relationship. Do you relate to any of the behaviors mentioned here? Let us know in the comments below. If you find this video helpful, be sure to like and share this video with those who might benefit from it. Also, don't forget to hit the subscribe button for more Psych2Go videos. And as always, thanks for watching and see you in our next video.


Welcome to this session of the course data structures and algorithms. In this session we shall look at one particular application of stacks. I have called it a text editor application. You are all familiar with the text editor. We shall see how a text editor is implemented using a two stack model. First some simple things. You would have been familiar by the way you must have used either g edit on a Ubuntu Unix system or even a simple notepad in a Microsoft operating system where you have some text and you want to edit that text. Typically you would see a cursor and this cursor can be moved left and right. Whenever we start typing on an empty file the characters start appearing on the left of the cursor and cursor keeps moving ahead to the right. In any text editor we are able to move the cursor. For example we can move the cursor to the left. We can move the cursor to the right. At the cursor point we have option of inserting a new character or deleting a character either on the left or right of that character. How can we simplify this notion of inserting or deleting characters at the cursor and moving the cursor to the left and right using stacks. The other operations that we may perform as I just mentioned is that at the cursor when we delete a character using delete key the character on the right of the cursor gets deleted. For example here was a character A. If I press delete key the capital A will disappear here. If I delete a character using backspace key then the character to the left of the cursor gets deleted. So the D gets deleted here. This is how the content will look like. We can replace any one character by any other alternate character in any text editor typically like find and replace. For example if we were to say find small t and replace it with capital T this is how our entire content will look like. So notice data structure this has become capital T this has become capital T this has become capital T and so on. In short if we are implementing a text editor we should have available with us functionalities of this guy. To recapitulate move the cursor to the left or right insert characters at the cursor point which will be inserted on the left and then delete the character either to the left or to the right using either the delete key or backspace key and a special functionality replace a given character. There are of course variety of other functionalities which can be built using these basic functionalities. Let us now look at a novel way of implementing such a text editor. We call it a two stack model. I would just like to recapitulate that in early 80s when we were implementing our Unix environment here one of my star programmers Dhananjay Bhasate introduced me to this two stack model look at the simplicity of the model. We have this text here data structure and algorithm. Suppose we use the cursor position as some kind of a divider. So if this is dividing the text I have characters to the left of it and I have characters to the right of it. I decide to maintain two stacks to hold characters on either side. All characters to the left of the cursor I will push them into the left stack. All characters to the right of the cursor I will push them on the right stack. So I now have two stacks a left stack and right stack. Notice the is with which now I can do manipulation. If I have to move the cursor either to the left or right I simply pop elements from one stack and push them on to another stack. If I wish to delete a character I can either pop the left stack character or pop the right stack character. Similarly insertion is very straight forward I keep inserting to the left stack. This makes my operations of the text editor very easy. If I want to visualize the entire text I can simply move all characters from the left stack to the right stack and start examining the characters to the right of the cursor. Let us look at in a sample implementation of a text editor. First the overview the two stacks are used to depict the text editor. If I want to insert a character or word push it on the left stack. If I want to delete a character using del key perform pop operation on the right stack so that character goes away. If I want to delete a character using back space I do the same pop operation on the left stack. If I want to move cursor to the left copy the required characters from left stack to right stack. If I want to move cursor to the right simply copy the required characters from right stack to the left stack so easy. And of course if I want to replace one character by some other character then I will have to use the combination of move cursor del and insert operation. We shall see how this can be done through an example. First inserting word so consider we need to insert data structures and algorithms push it to the left stack. So this is the left d d a etcetera I keep typing and every time I type a character it should be pushed on to the left stack. So when I push this entire string of characters this will be the position. The right stack will contain nothing the left stack will contain all these characters and of course my cursor continues to act as a divider. Suppose I want to move cursor to the left imagine the cursor is here at the end of the last operation that I just explained and I want to move it to the left. These are the two stacks shown left stack and right stack currently there is nothing on the right stack. Now current cursor position is 27 which is the size of the left stack. Suppose I want to move it to position 14 to the left of the cursor that means I want to move my cursor at this position after data structure. What should I do? Move the elements from left stack to the right stack. So this was the left stack earlier all these characters up to this point I should push on to the right stack. Look at how the left and right stack will look. Data structures this is one and algorithms is actually inserted in exactly the opposite way because that is how the elements will be pushed on to the right stack. So I have now left stack and right stack and I have the cursor at this position. Suppose I want to move the cursor right when the cursor is at this position suppose I want to move it to position 17 all that I need to do is currently I am at 14. So 15, 16 and 17 three characters have to move from right stack to left stack. So move the position that means move elements from right stack to left stack and my stacks will look like this now. How do I delete a character? Very simple. Current cursor position is 17. Delete suppose three characters AL and G from the word algorithm. What I do? I want to delete these characters. I will perform the pop operation three times on the right stack. Left remains the same. You would have already guessed how I can delete characters to the left of the stack. So backspace character. The backspace character will delete characters to the left of this stack. Suppose I want to delete seven characters to the left of the stack that is U, R, E, S, capital A, N, D. These characters I want to delete. All that I need to do is perform pop operation seven times on the left stack. So what will happen is I will just have data struct. All other characters should have been deleted. My right stack will look like this. Of course it is an arbitrary editing. This is not a meaningful editing but this is just to demonstrate the impact of backspace and del character and how it is implemented using our two stack models. We will now look at the special functionality which is often required in a text editor namely finding and replacing a character. Consider the current state of our text. It says data struct orythems because we have already edited part of it. This will be my left stack and this is my right stack. Now suppose I want to examine in my text whether there is any small character T and I want to replace it with a capital T. If I want to do that how could I do that using the functionality that I have already implemented? It is actually simple. First I note the position of the cursor. It is just to the right of struct or left of OR. Now I move all elements from left stack to right stack. What will it mean? It will mean that the cursor has effectively moved to the beginning of the entire text. Now I start moving elements from right to left one by one. What are the steps? If the element is small t delete that character and insert element capital T. So notice that I have replaced one T with a capital T. I keep doing this. If the element is not a small t I simply move it to the left stack. Now I move the cursor at the end of this entire process to the original position which was already described that. So in a nutshell what I am doing is I am moving cursor to the left then I am taking each element from the right stack. If it is not a small t I simply copy it onto the left stack and push it onto the left stack.  So when I insert it to go on top of the left stack and keep on doing this with all characters on the string at the end I would get. Currently I have this. Right is this. So move all elements from left to right. So notice left has nothing. Right stack has all these. Now move capital D from right to left is the first character. So it has moved. Next move A. So A has moved. Next perform delete operation because I find the character T here. So when T is deleted there is no T here. But now perform insert operation for capital T. The insert operation will push it onto the left stack. Effectively what has happened is I had a small t earlier. Now I have a capital T in its place. I continue till the right becomes empty. So when there is no more text in the string I will have this particular thing on my left. Now I note that originally the cursor was somewhere here in between these two. I will move the cursor back to the original position getting this in my left stack and this in my right stack. This is how I have achieved find and replace a character. To conclude we have seen a simple two stack model for implementing a text editor. We of course do not have any visual implementation in this but we have demonstrated how simply two stacks can be used with cursor as the dividing point and we actually have a working text editor. In the next session we shall see implementation of such a text editor using two stack models. Thank you.