Richie. Have you heard about the party tonight? Richie. I saw it on his Instagram. How about I take you to your favorite restaurant? Richie. It's not a regular night. Yeah. We had this all right. We'd be next to line to be a member of their family business. Come back to the dorm last night.  Jimmy J's last location before a phone call. As you wish, Mr. Snow. I need all the details of last night. Turns out a lot of people have come up missing. And their last location has been at that club. Clients are in place for tonight's hearing. We got a problem.  This little girl. J-O-N. I think it's about time I ring this bell. Come on, we made it. Come on, man. We walking all through the black market. I know y'all see what we got going on. We got a food court. We got libraries. We got all type of industries. Real products.  Come on, man. Y'all enjoying the studio? Yeah. Come on, man. So it wouldn't be a real black market if we didn't have a movie theater where we could go watch movies with a whole lot of black people in them. So today we got the cast from Meet the Snow. Thank you for having me. Man, we deep in here today. I got to take this time to let everybody get a chance to introduce themselves to the world and all the people watching today on the black market. Tell me your name and the character that you play in the movie. Well, I'm Kedra Ponder. I'm the producer in The Co-Writer. And I play one of the bad guys. Just one of the bad guys. Just one of them. These numbers were Ron Taylor, aka BZ numbers on one of the co-writers. One of the stars. And I play Ron Snow, the father of the movie. Okay. Hi, I'm Priesta Outland. I am one of the stars as well in the movie. I play Vanity Snow. What up, everybody? I'm Frederick Harper. I play a bad guy. I play Ty. Ty. Bartender. Slippin' Mickey's. Wow. It's four of us. Damn. Yeah. But, uh... I don't know if we should have him laughing with us. Watch the movie. He get it. I'm also an associate producer on the project as well. That's what's up, man. Tell me how the project came together, man, and how y'all put all this good energy into it like this. Uh-oh. Well, until he get it right, I'll let you know. Me and Ron, we've done previous projects together. And he had an idea that he couldn't get out his head. I told him, I'll help you. And I co-wrote it with him.  We both have teenage daughters that were entering college. And it's saying that's plaguing that Atlanta area. And we just wanted to bring some awareness to it. You want me to hold it down? Hold it down. Well, how I came about it, Ron found me on Facebook. He was in my inbox, asking me if I wanted to be a part of the project. I was like, send me the script first, but do you have a budget? That's the most important question. You want to know if you have a budget. And if you don't have a budget, what kind of quality is it going to be? Because you don't want to waste your time.  I read the script that he sent over to me. The script was fired. I was like, oh, let's do this. It's all about action. I love action. So that's how I came about. And you, Mr. Drink Spiker. Ron and I go way back. We go back to Tanglin and Twisted on the set. We worked on a project together, man. And he always expressed that he wanted to do an action film. And I was one of the first people that he called up, sent me over the script, reviewed it, talked some business. And here we are a few years later. Yeah. Ron, what's been the approach, man, for you taking this project on everybody who's here today saying that Ron had the group. You found it. You know what?   Let's do it. Spirit heads y'all like. I seen y'all go from, you know, wilding out to doing the 85 South Show. And I'm just inspired. I was like, you know what? I've been acting for a while. I got to take my life from my own hands. Tyler Perry ain't coming. Ain't nobody coming. These Black men are striving to achieve it. We got rehearsal. Let's write a movie. Yeah. We wrote it. We wrote it with the attention to impact the world. And look at us. We're on the 85 South Show.  So you know, I tell people all the time. It's like, don't wait on nobody to make you a star, man. And of course, like, look at the success that you have. And you never would have thought to go from, like you said, an idea to a script, to man, we producing this. The rap part. And now you're like, oh my God. Like I said, putting that good energy into it and having the right people around you that can help you bring that vision to life. That's the dopest part about it. So it's like, now you got the momentum and you see that it's possible. What do you want to take it to now? What you want to do next? We feel like we got the next, like, Tyler Perry. We got, like, Spike Lee. You interviewing one of the next big director, movie makers out here. We got now. Yeah, I'm talking about that. We believe in that. So Van Diesel was another one of my inspirations too. Hollywood wasn't really, they weren't messing with him. So he made Fast and Furious and he got it here. So just watching people just be great. How long you just going to watch people be great for? You jumping the seat like, let's go. You got to be great. But some people, you want to be great like instant. You got to put their work in. Class facts. And when they see us on Tuba, they say, it's a Tuba movie until they watch it. Yeah.  That one's supposed to be. Tuba movies, though, I feel like it's a whole different genre. It is. Yeah. It reminds me of, like, the Black Smootation film era, where it was like, it wasn't even necessarily like the theme of the movies. It was just that they were created, like we would call it independent film these days. Right. But, you know, back in those days, that was just the genre that they put it in. I just think it's dope to see, you know, people make these movies happen with little to no budgets on some of them. So it's like, how could you clown that?   And we can't tell all our stories. Correct. You know, from the Tyler Perry's to the hood niggas selling dope everywhere. He got a story he wanted to tell, too. Big facts. And we need to hit all of them.  We've been watching too long. Exactly. You know, it's time for us to be innovators and make it happen. And I love it. Right, right. So how long you been over here executive producing and co-producing and making this stuff happen over here on the movie world? Honestly, it's my 10th year in media. Yeah. It's my third project, my third full feature. I've been in Atlanta maybe five years now. Yeah. What would y'all say to the independent creators who may be nulling over the idea of going back and forth just get us take that next step to make it happen? Get it done. Correct. Get it done. Just do it. Just do it. Yeah. If you have an idea, I always say write it down. Yeah. You know, write it down, create your vision, and then, you know, just pursue it. Just go after it. And then don't worry about where the money's gonna come from. Don't worry about who's gonna be involved. You just make sure you get your vision out. Yeah. And trust me and have, I always believe in faith and have that faith you step out and people are gonna come to you because they're gonna see your vision. Right. Was this the first project y'all worked on together? It is. I'm gonna say all of us. All of us together. All of us together. We all worked on a separate project. Yeah. Yeah. I've been acting for about 10 years. What have you been acting for? I've been acting for probably 20 years. I started acting in Memphis, so theater. So I've been doing it for a long time. Memphis, man. Memphis, man. Memphis, man. Yeah, yeah. Gotta love that. I've been acting since I came out the long. You know, every day is acting. You know, it's just a matter of whether you have that lights, camera, action behind it, but we gotta act every day in life and decide how we're gonna play that role with whomever we encounter, you know? So I've been acting that long, so. So where can they go and check out more info about the movie? I've got a Facebook page, Instagram page. Yeah, we're only done. We're only done, that's all. Meet the snows, everything. Meet the snows, everything. You can Google it. Meet the snows. Our Gmail is meetthesnows.gmail.com. So after y'all check it out on Tubi, let us know what you think. What is this movie about? It's what you want to get into. Tell us. So really good acting. Because that's what it's about. That's what really drew me to it. And I'll let you talk about it first. What's the movie about? Yeah, talk about it.  Similar to Taken? Mm-hmm. But we got some real opinions in that. Yeah. Better in my opinion. Some more graphics and stuff. With a Negro spin. Yeah. I love it. The instruments are crazy. J-O-N, we got to get you in the thank you. We do. Yeah, we hijacking the movie. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we are. Everybody in there, we getting in. Let's go. We taking over the movie industry. And we starting with Tubi. Hello. Part two coming soon. Really? It's already in the work? It's in the work. Well, you start over. I need another bad guy. Let's go. Brighter man be the bad guy. Two little improv, baby. Two little improv. Two little improv be the bad guy. Everybody want to be the bad guy. Yes.  I got a bogey's accent and everything. All right, here go my seat. You're the cat, man.   Shit, okay.    I'm about to have a fight. I'm sick of these incense right now.  I love it. Yeah, I told you. I ain't... That's how hard it was. That bad.  But man, I appreciate y'all stopping through the black market.  I'm giving you credit. I want to ask you some 85% questions. Ask me. Because I'm on 85%. But I still got to make sure I say, I appreciate y'all stopping through here and doing your promo with us, because that's exactly what this platform's created for. Things just like this. And I manifested you honestly. Word. When we finished working on a project, you know, you wasn't my friend at the time, but I tagged 85. I said tag the 85% show. I want to be on that show. And the manifestation just happened. New phase just came around. Everything just all happened in there. And here we are. See? It ain't about who you know. It's about who know you. Yeah, man. Now, what's the question? I'm ready. I got a few on. I got a few on. Okay. Because you always rapping on your show. When you dropping the mixtape? Um, what's today? What is it? Is this April? April. Yeah, April to 10. 25? I'm coming in the middle of the summer. What's with this?  Middle of the summer. You always rapping. It ain't nothing. I'm coming in the middle of the summer. I'm coming with the anthem for the summer. Okay. All right. That's one question. Yeah. The cockroach thing. Are y'all going to make that a real cartoon? It is. Like a real series? Yeah. The Roche Motel? Man, I love that, man. I want to be on it. I want to be on it. Man. We got all the episodes. We move all the episodes to the app. Really? Yeah. So we working on the next season of Roche Motel also. See, I'm glad you brought it up because they didn't even know. We was just going to drop a gang of episodes. That's so funny. Yeah. That's one of them.  We want to have a cartoon, radio show, TV show. So it's like, ooh. That's definitely the first move with the animation.  And we're going to bring back Saturday morning cartoons.  Like, rick and moody. Come on. It's three o'clock in the morning. So yeah, man.  How many cars do you actually with y'all? I mean, once you get to a certain number, you just, like, count it. I got every car that a black man would want to have from them. I think I could, and probably two of them at this point. You talking about where the impala is? Yeah, the impala has been gone. Now we're giving away a 72, no, a 70 Chevelle. Got her. That mother could call him too. Call him? Oh. Hell yeah. The car game crazy right now.  They give away cars. When they give away old school, I'm from the south. We love our old school. Oh, y'all get money. Well, I mean, it's for the fans. It's for the fans.  So, you know, everything goes full circle. Keep the culture going. Y'all got any questions? I'm just down. Any thoughts on questions? I would like to say happy birthday. Thank you. Happy birthday. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. What's the birthday? It's been April 2nd. Have a belated my guy. C.J. No. Yeah. My birthday just passed. Have a belated my guy. Thank you. I appreciate it. You know that in the world. OG. Listen. Why you being cute? Because I am cute. Don't starve.  Well, get on the show, that's your only stop, huh? We'll be back, we'll be back. No, she's gonna come back by yourself. I'm not like you, man. I got you. I'm sorry, man. I wanted to get them all together once and then. I get the individuals in there, so you want to come through. I already know you're the villain now at this point. Yeah, I got you. Yeah, so I want to make sure I tell everybody to go check out Meet the Snows so we can talk about it in the comments, you know, just to see where we at with it. Yeah, we can discuss this as a family. Can y'all, one more request. Can y'all play our trailer? Can y'all show it? Can you send it to me? If you send it to me, I will literally drop the trailer right when you said it. Oh, man. You heard this, huh? You want me to put it in the front of the show in the back? Make it a commercial, too. Thank you. Yeah. How do you know this? This is to promote you. Throw some soundtrack music in there, too. This might as well plug it all the way through. Some soundtrack music. We got two artists sitting up here today that's on the soundtrack. Can we rap right here? Come on. We rappers, too.  You're more rapping than me. Let them know about your songs on the soundtrack. We got a courtesy run throwing it on there called We Out Here Doing Shit We Ain't Got No Business Doing. It's hot, too. We Out Here Doing Shit We Ain't Got No Business Doing. Come on.  But yeah, man.  So we'll put the trailer in there. We'll make sure we get the link to the soundtrack, the promo, the trailer, the gif, the meme. Whatever y'all got associated with this because we want to see y'all be successful, man. Thank you. That's exactly what this platform is for. And I would like to add, if possible, can we mention something about what the movie is representing sex trafficking? It's entertaining in itself because we all are aware of that. But the main purpose, the main message of the movie is about sex traffic awareness. So if we can drop something about what are some of the signs and how to avoid it and stuff like that, that'll be great. Because that's where we're headed. We're trying to team up with sex trafficking organizations so that we can bring more awareness to the youth because our youth are being picked up quickly. You need to be careful with them organizations.  Well, true. There are some, but... Well, we have two organizations that we're partnering with right now. Youth Spring and Well Living. So they've been very beneficial. We do have resources available. So if we have anyone listening that may have benefited from this sex trafficking, please don't hesitate to reach out to us and we will provide resources.  Correct. Shit is sick. They out here stealing people. More than that.  Both at two and stealing the organs. It's true. So when you're out in public and you see something that don't look right, intervene.  For sure. Everybody has had those moments with you. Are y'all okay moments?  It's all fun and games. It's all fun and games until you become a victim or you're close to one. I'm close to a victim. My family are survivors. In the late 80s, my cousin Emma Staten was sex trafficked from Palakka, Florida. Last time we seen her she was on her way to a nightclub and she got in the car with the dude she met there and never came back home. We put out reports. We did police reports, national reports. We haven't found any information on her.  Do not get in the car with people you don't know. If you come with a friend, leave with that friend. Exactly. And don't drink things that's been sat down unattended to you. Keep an eye on your drink. Yes. Watch your drinks. Watch your drinks. Especially with traveling. Some of the tips? Yeah. I guess just for the sake of the youth and, shoot, grownups, some of the tips of sex trafficking would be more like I would like to say for example kids, right now a lot of them are on spring break. The sex traffickers are out. They are around looking and waiting to collect. So these kids need to be aware. They're at the malls, they're at the movie theaters. These are places where parents drop their kids off and dip and, hey, you spend the day up here but the next thing you know you have some handsome guy or sometimes they're using the youth or a woman to lure them in. So it's like you really, really have to be careful and they're out seeking people who have low self-esteem. Those who feel left out or they want a fast life and they'll sell them this dream. I'm sure many heard about the Jeff Epstein whole case. That's what I was just about to say.  Like anybody can be you know what I mean? Men, women, children, boys, girls I mean it's like nobody is excluded.  And so there's some of them and as far as black people they want our organs. So you can come up missing, they still in the eyes, hearts and you saw a get out. That's a perfect, kind of a perfect example of it, you know. That's the scariest movie I've ever seen. She's thinking about the concept of that. But it's real, it's real.  We don't talk about that. Stop it. Get out of here. He's starting. I'm telling you man. Well look here. Y'all see where we at, y'all know where we at. This is our first time stopping through here for some promo but don't let it be the last. The next time y'all come back we need to be talking about what we're going to do. I got a fight movie I did join. Fight? Are we shooting in September? Do I need to give back to fighting weight or? I got a scene where you got to wear that little light. You okay with running? From who? From a fighter?   I ain't playing that role. You know they want to bring it up. You acting, you acting. You pretending. You're acting. You're acting. You're acting. You're acting. You made it away.  I can't get killed. I gotta find another role. I am good.   Nah, I am. I'm gonna see you shoot me in the face. I'm gonna put you in the movie.   You're gonna run. That's how it is. You want to kill all these friends in the movie. You gotta fight. Somebody get up and save y'all. Run. Yeah, well, no. I just told you I was the villain. The villain don't lose.  Not in the first movie. What about the first one? What about the trilogy? They made 10 Fast and Furious. You didn't kill me in the first movie. Shit. I'm already out of it. He just want to put you in the face.  You know what?  That's what's on TV. What's on TV? All the 85. What's on TV? All the 85.  Well, look here, man. I appreciate y'all stopping through here. Please do not burn down the studio. We have to keep this thing going so we can keep this black market open and keep making it. One way stand up. We made it. Like that. One time for Dates on the Beach. Everybody put it. We see our baby. ATL right here. What about the party tonight? How about I take you to your favorite restaurant? They had this all fried. It would be an excellent to be a member of their family business. Come back to the dorm last night. Something is in private. PA's last location before our phone died. As you wish, Mr. Snow. I need all the details of last night. Turns out a lot of people have come up missing and their last location has been at that club. My clients are in place for tonight's meeting. We got a problem.  This little girl.


What kind of adult do children need in order to feel safe? And how can we be that adult? That's what we're going to be exploring in today's episode. So this concept of a safe adult it comes from sort of trauma informed practice and all that school of thought is loads of evidence loads of research out there, but for our purposes today we're essentially thinking about adults that kids know that they can rely on and trust and who enable them to feel safe. So they can do the all-important work of being a child. When children don't feel safe, then they tend to take on adult thoughts, feelings and responsibilities and they tend to do a lot less kind of laughter, play, connecting and so on. And so it's really important that there are safe adults in the lives of children so they can do the kid thing because doing the kid thing is the most important work of a kid. So what is a safe adult and how can we become that? I have come up with five C's. Things that make you a safe adult don't have to begin with C, but in this episode of my podcast they all do and they are that adults would be calm, they'd be consistent, they'd communicate well, they build connections and they're curious. We're going to go through each of those C's in turn. I'll talk to it a little bit and you might think of some of your own along the way too, but you'll get a bit of a feel for what being a safe adult might look like and feel like for the children in your care. OK, so the first C is for calm. I come back to the idea of calm a lot. Calm adults are one of the most helpful things for children, particularly those who are vulnerable, particularly those who are distressed or who are challenged more generally with their emotional regulation and feelings of safety.  So we sometimes will need to use strategies in order to create that calm. And sometimes for short periods, we might need to fake that calm. But in order to get there, we can try some of our favourite techniques. And many of these, many of you will have heard before, but that doesn't make it any harm in repeating them. I will do so briefly, though. So we can try things like our slow, low, low speaking. Yep, pedaling that one out again. Slow, low, low speaking enables us to take any conversation that we're having or soliloquy, we're saying, and making it sound like we're cool, calm and in control. We do this by speaking more slowly, slow, by lowering the pitch low. So we're speaking a bit more duplu and we're going to lower the volume, speaking a bit more quietly. So slow, low, low, slow it down, lower the pitch, lower the volume. We do this because when we're angry or we're anxious, we speak fast. We speak shrill, we speak loud and we're trying to do the opposite of that. We are trying to make our voice say, hey, there's no need to panic. It's absolutely fine. I'm totally and utterly in control of this situation. Now, the great thing about slow, low, low talking is you can do that. You can convey that, even if actually internally you're screaming, run a king, run a king. That's a great new word. We should adopt that. Run a king is when you're running with panic. So if you're screaming, run a king or otherwise just not quite holding it together, you can appear to be holding it together by using your slow, low, low speaking. You could use your slow, low, low speaking whilst deploying one of the other strategies and talking a child through them. So the next one I was going to share was five, four, three, two, one grounding. This is a grounding strategy. Those are designed to keep us in the moment to take us away from the difficult thoughts, feeling experiences that might be in our head or in our surrounding environment and to take us right into the here and now and the safety of being connected to our immediate situation. With five, four, three, two, one, we look for five things that we can see and we might name those out loud. We search for four things that we can hear in our surroundings. We then look for three things that we can touch. What do they feel like stroking a cat? We think two things we can smell and then you can go for one thing you can taste, but I tend to say one deep cleansing breath. Now, the thing with five, four, three, two, one, I went through it in a certain order. You don't have to. Basically, you're taking the senses.  You don't even have to do five, four, three, two, one. It's just a framework. Don't get hung up on not being able to remember. Am I meant to hear first or see first or touch first? Well, I don't know. Just forget all that and just remember senses are really powerful. They're really grounding. Let's name some stuff that we can see, hear, feel, et cetera. OK. And then finally, we've got box breathing. So there are so many different breathing strategies. Box breathing is one of the simplest, easiest, quickest to share. And it's also one that's suitable across the ages and doesn't feel babyish or anything like that, which some of them do. I love them all for every age, but some people don't like being told to blow a feather from their palm if they're a barely 16 year old boy and they've just had a big kind of meltdown. So box breathing, much more socially acceptable for all types of kids and adults. So here we take control of our breathing by breathing in for the count of four.  You might say, we're going to breathe in two, three, four. And then we hold for the count of four, two, three, four. We breathe out for the count of four, two, three, four. And we hold for the count of four, two, three, four. And you can talk a child through that. You can do it alongside them. You can draw it. You can do it however you like. Make it yours. But when we do that, when we take control of our breathing, it's a superpower because it sends messages to both our body and our brain. So when we're in control, we're taking control of our breathing, then our brain kind of gets this message, OK, OK, OK. We've got this in control. No need to panic. It's all OK. And so our brain doesn't do the big red panic button thing and go kind of, ah, instead it's like, no, OK, I think they've got this situation. It's all right. No need to instigate panic attack. On the other hand, or as well, our body also gets messages that things are going OK, because as we take control of our breathing, our physiology starts to change because we're getting the balance a bit more right as we're breathing in enough oxygen and all that sort of thing.  That's good. And things start to feel both physiologically and psychologically different for the person doing the breathing. And perhaps for you as the person guiding them, things begin to calm. So they get calmer, you get calmer. It's a virtual cycle of catching calmness, hurrah. So the first C was calm, being a calm adult, even in situations when you don't necessarily feel calm. Now, remembering those moments, sometimes when we have a child who's scared, who is distressed and remember scared might look many ways. Scared might look like angry, but where we've got a distressed child and they need a safe adult, they need us to be the swan. So we try and we keep it calm and we let this child know, it's OK, I'm in control of this situation. You do not need to be in control because I am in control and I am calm. And I've got this, even if you're frantically paddling like this one beneath the surface, they need to see the calm because that's what they need right now.  But in that moment, that is the adult that that child needs. Our next C, C number two, if you like, is for consistency. Boring is brilliant. Children need boring adults. They need adults in their life who are totally predictable, where they know exactly where they stand, where they know what's going to happen with this adult, what to expect of them and what that adult expects of them in return. This is because when we have inconsistent adults, so this might be the kind of adult who one minute is loving you and being so kind and caring and nurturing and that feels so good. And then the next moment, they're flying off the handle, shouting at you or abusing you or generally not being the adult they were just now. That's scary and unpredictable for kids and they don't quite know which adult they're going to get when they walk into the room. That leaves this kind of feeling of anxiety because just unpredictability makes us anxious because we spend a lot of time kind of second guessing what's going to happen. How am I going to manage it? Who am I going to be met with today? So what they need is predictable adults. And this isn't just about how you respond emotionally. And all of us will have little moments of inconsistency.  Ninety nine point nine percent of the time I am cool. I am calm. I am collected and predictable. And every now and then I just lose it. That's actually OK as long as a we talk about it. When these inconsistencies happen, we might actually role model how we manage those tricky moments and we forgive ourselves. We repair the rupture and we move on. But what I'm talking about here are adults who are just all over the place, one minute kind, one minute, not so kind and different rules, different things going on where just kids just don't know what to expect, basically. So boring is good. How can you do this? So things you can do and trying here to adapt them for the very wide and varied, wonderful audience that come to the podcast. So one thing I think about a lot is rules. So this applies really easily in the classroom setting, but you can think about it in school or I know some of you are working in hospitals, for example, generally where we have children in a place, there are some kind of rules, whether we call them rules or they're just sort of expectations. Children need to know what those rules are, what those expectations are. So if they're not explicit in your setting, you might think about making them explicit. But the key thing about rules is not to have too many. So review those rules, know what they are, make sure that they've been really clearly communicated and then try to just have fewer of them. So Paul Dix, who is amazing and has written brilliant, brilliant books on behaviour using a relational approach, he always recommends no more than three rules. You basically want rules that the children and the adults fully understand and can always bring to mind and remember. As soon as you've got more than people can tell you right away, including even the littlest people, then the rules aren't actually going to be helpful for your environment. Instead, they're going to be an added stress for kids who might be not remembering them and worrying that they might get them wrong. So have few simple rules that are communicated well and which are adhered to. Next thing is to add in like routines and rituals into the day that can make things feel kind of comfortable and predictable and nice. So that can make us feel kind of consistent and safe and a little bit boring in a good way. So just think about bits of the day that you might be able to repeat in a similar way each time. So if you were in a classroom, it might be about how you meet and greet the children or what happens at tidy up time or what happens when we say goodbye. At home, you might think about things like bedtime. What are the routines and rituals around bedtime? If you've got a child who is struggling with going to school or saying goodbye, you might create routines and rituals around what happens with saying goodbye. So you can be consistent and predictable in those times, even when your heart is breaking and you don't want to say goodbye. Actually, you know this is the pattern. These are the things we do. This is the song we sing or the thing that we say and where you go and what happens.   And we all manage a little bit more easily. So routines and rituals are great. They're especially good for our neurodiverse children and those others who might crave routine and need that structure. But every child benefits from this. It makes you feel predictable and safe. It's good. And then finally, if we need to change things, so we might need to have different rules for some children because our standard rules, even if they're simple and few, might not work for a particular child because of their needs or where they're at right now. Or if we need to make a change to our routines and rituals, for example, then we need to just think about how to share and stick to the new way of doing things. So it's not about not being flexible. We all need to be flexible sometimes. It's about recognising that sometimes in our kindness and our care, by being flexible and changing the routine and changing the rules to meet the needs of the child and meet them where they're at, which is fantastic, sometimes we inadvertently do more harm than good because we've taken a predictable scenario and we've made it unpredictable by changing it. So how we fix that is we make it predictable again. So we say, hey, you've been struggling with X. That's not really working for us, is it? So let's do Y instead and we'll do that every day. And we agree that new rule, that new routine, that new way of doing things and we'll make it really explicit. So it's not about not being flexible. It's about making a change and sticking with the change. So what you wouldn't do is be endlessly flexible and keep changing things all the time. You change from thing X to thing Y and you carefully communicate thing Y. And we're going to think about communication next. Hurrah, seamlessly moving on. So C number three is about communication. And, you know, those of you listening here who have been to some of my talks or listened to other things or watched other videos, a lot of this is going to be feeling kind of familiar. That's intentional because what I've tried to do here is weave together a whole bunch of stuff that I talk about all the time and think about what does this look like all together in one piece? For me as an adult trying to be who my children need every day. So there might not be new stuff in here, but hopefully it's helping you think about it in the context of you and bringing it all together. So the next C is for communication. So safe adults, adults who make children feel safe will communicate in consistent, predictable ways. They will communicate in ways that children hear. Little nugget here. Listen up if you were just kind of like doing the washing up and only had half your mind on just tune in because this is very, very important. When it comes to communication, it's not about what we say. It's about what the other person hears. It's not about what we say. It's about what the other person hears. Now, what do I mean by that? What I mean is we can have the best of intentions and we can communicate the right things. We can have done the right things and we're trying to share them. But unless the person we're communicating with actually hears what we meant to say in the way that we meant to say it, then that message is actually lost. And what can go wrong here are either they literally don't hear it because perhaps we've communicated in a way that is inaccessible to them or perhaps there's some reason why they might misread the tone and what is said. So an example here of adults communicating with adults rather than adults and children. But this is a global thing. I recently had an email from the headteacher of one of my daughters and that email made me very upset. It was an angry email. I was really upset by it and the school is across the road and I have a very good relationship with his headteacher. We spend a lot of time together. And so I picked up the phone and I said, I'd really like to speak to the headteacher, please. I'm very upset by his email. He's clearly very angry with me and I'd rather have a conversation than an email, please. So then the headteacher and I did have a conversation very soon after that because he's great and he responds to these things well. And he said, not an angry email. I'm not angry at all. I don't know why you thought that. Have a look at it again. It's not angry. And I did look at it again and I said, I'm looking at it again and I'm still reading it as angry. And he said, I can tell you categorically, I'm not angry. That was helpful. We worked through it. We moved on. But the point is, even as I reread that email now, I still read it as angry. Whether or not he meant it as angry, I read it as angry.  It's much better if we have a face-to-face conversation where I can read his body language and how his voice is and that sort of thing, because I've got pretty skilled in those things over time. But I hope that's illustrative, that it's not about what we think we're saying. It's about what the person we're saying it to hears. And when I say what we say, we're not just talking about talking here. Communication takes many, many forms. It's what we show. It's what our body language says. It's the things we might write down. The images we might create and so on and so forth. So how do we become a safe communicator? One that makes children feel safe and communicates in a consistent way that is hard in the way that we need it to. So some things we can try. Simplify stuff. Simplify your instructions. We've spoken in other media and I think on the podcast too recently about the need to simplify instructions for autistic and other neurodiverse learners. You can use that for all learners. Just simplifying instructions. Making what you need a child to do as simple as possible, whether that is through the spoken word or we are going to write it down or we're going to show pictures or a video, whatever we're sharing. Just keeping what we want from the child as simple as possible so there's far less room for misinterpretation is super helpful and keeping it clear and concrete too. Using the words that we actually mean rather than kind of idioms and stuff like that. As my daughter Lyra so eloquently puts it, what she as an autistic 13 year old now, she is an autistic 13 year old needs from the adults around her is for them to say what they'll do and do what they'll say. Honestly, if you get that right, you're pretty much there to be honest, particularly with Lyra. So we're going to simplify our instructions. We might use a few different forms of communication in order to get across what it is that we're trying to say. So some kids are great with being spoken to. Some prefer to have things written down. Some will like to have pictures. Some will like to be shown. There's all sorts of different ways that we might communicate and actually using more than one at a time is often the key to success if we are able to do that, particularly if we're working with a group of children who might have different preferences, but you might have a child who appears to be taking it all on board as you're saying it, who has got the nod and the smile right down there. And then as soon as you're done, they realize they have no idea and that list of instructions might have really helped. They might have read through it as you were talking and they might have made their own notes. They might need it to refer back to. They might have understood what you said, but not retained it. There's all sorts of stuff going on there. Basically, multiple media where you can can be superbly helpful. And then we can also just check for understanding. So if there's any possibility and there's always a possibility the child might not have understood what we've asked of them, what we've told them, what we've said to them, just check back, ask them, have you understood what I've said and make it okay for them to say, I haven't got a clue. I'm really sorry. I really don't know what you actually want me to do. We need to create that culture. And again, not just with children, we need to create this culture with adults as well. We, in an ideal world, particularly if you have any kind of coaching, mentoring, supporting type position, perhaps you are a more senior member of staff within a team. It's really crucial that other members of your team, particularly those who you might be senior to in kind of rank, which can make it harder for them to ask again. But it's really crucial that we create an environment where they can say, I'm sorry, I didn't understand that. Would you mind telling me again? Would you mind repeating? Would you mind rephrasing? Could you explain it a bit more? Creating that culture where people can actually ask us to clarify is relatively easily done if we try, but almost never done if we don't. Okay, so of our five Cs so far, we've thought about being calm. We've thought about being consistent. We've thought about our communication. And next, we're going to think about connections. So children need to feel like they belong. They need to feel like they matter to somebody. And if we're an adult who makes them feel safe, if we're a safe adult, we can enable this feeling of connection by actively seeking connections with the children in our care. So what can we do to do this? The number one thing, smile. Actually just catching a child's eye if they're comfortable with that or kind of gazing in the general direction and giving them a big smile and a nod can be super helpful. We should particularly look to do this with the quieter children. The children who tend to go unnoticed by us tend to go unnoticed by many. And there are some children who float around day-to-day life having no meaningful connections with any adults. And that makes me deeply sad and it's not nice for them. So we should notice them. My little hack here is if you are someone who cares for or works with a group of children, just now take a moment just to list them. List them out, don't use any cheats, don't use a seating plan that you're going through in your head or anything, just list them as they come to your mind. And then the child that comes to mind last, they'll be a few that come to mind right away because they are brilliant or boisterous. There will be the next lot who come to mind who are kind of somewhere in the middle there who you get some engagement and interaction from but they don't tend to cause particular trouble or have those moments where you're like, oh wow. And then there are the children that I'm worried about. Two or three at the end there who glide through life like wallpaper and they're not causing any trouble. And they're just kind of quietly there, not connecting. And it can be days. Sometimes I speak to these children in schools and it can be days between them having a meaningful interaction with either an adult or a child. We can change that with a smile and a nod and showing a child, I've noticed you're in the world, I care. Pick a kid and notice them for a few weeks. You will see them grow, you will see them change, you will see them begin to shine with a little bit of extra attention. Pick a child, notice them for a few weeks. Once they're a bit more, they're making themselves more noticeable the time, move on, pick another child. It sounds really strange thing to do but it makes huge, huge differences. Just pick that child, just notice them. You don't need to tell them you're doing anything different, just have conversations with them, notice them, smile at them, let them know that in someone's world, they matter, connect with them. And then another thing we can do in terms of connection is just thinking about our questioning and our talking and our conversations with children so that we can prompt slightly deeper conversations. We don't have to have great long hour-long conversations with children unless we want to and those can be amazing but we might just have small pockets of time and we might find that a child begins to talk to us about something of interest or we prompt a conversation of something of interest and what we sometimes want to do is enable that conversation to go a little deeper, maybe because they're exploring something tricky and challenging and we need to learn more or maybe because they're telling us about the thing they love, they're telling us about Pokemon and we don't know much about that but we'd love to connect with them and allow them to talk about their passion, their expertise so we can use various prompts to help with this. I'll link out to a little graphic on this scene after. Remember them all and you can make your own. These are not challenging but things like, why? And we're asking why in a curious, not an accusative way so never why but why? Great question. Tell me more. Just prompting them to continue talking. Tell me more. I use that one all the time. I love people. I'm really curious about people and I do spend a lot of my time going, tell me more. What happened next? How did that feel? The therapist's question but there's a reason why there's this trope about therapists saying, how did that feel? Because actually it works. It works. Understanding how something felt for someone is a great thing. What were you expecting? And then you can explore little things there around was this as you expected? But yeah, what were you expecting to happen? Not in again, you've got to get the tone right. It's not like, and what were you expecting to happen? But rather, what were you expecting to happen? Like, you're going on a journey with them. You're curious, what was going to happen next? I'm dying to know. What did you find surprising? This can be great when we were reviewing if a child has tried something new or something like that. They've been somewhere they've not been before. They've tried a new strategy or they learn about a new topic. What surprised you? What did you find surprising? Would you do it that way again? Again, going with the curious, not the accusative but would you do it that way again? We're basically exploring, did this work for you? Was it helpful? Is there something you'd do differently? What went well? What could have been better? And then keep going. So sometimes, again, this is like tell me more right back at the top of the list there. Keep going is just an invitation when a child has started to talk about something say, oh, I want to know more about this. When I'm delivering training, I will often invite people within the audience to share their ideas and experiences. And often someone will say something brilliant and really interesting in about 10 words. And I'll be like, oh my goodness, I need to know more about this. You know, I'll have just opened this genie from a bottle about something really wonderful that's happening in their setting. And I just generally go say more. And that's my kind of go-to phrase. And it's a really odd thing to say, but it works. It's just like, I just must know more about this. Just basically me saying, I want to hear the full version. You've given me the TLDR version. Too long didn't read version. I actually want to know all the gory details. Please tell me everything about this. I want to know more. We all want to know more, keep going. So those kinds of phrases tell me more, keep going. In my instance, say more. Things that invite someone who has just said something just to go a little bit deeper, letting them know I am engaged, I am interested. Yes, please do expand on this topic of conversation. And then finally, finally, finally, finally, our last C is about curiosity. So children need adults who try to retain that childlike sense of curiosity in order to explore their worlds with them, to try and make their worlds feel safer. So sometimes we're going to be supporting a child for whom everything isn't entirely perfect or just where they're trying to learn about new things and stuff. And having an adult alongside them who is curious with them, about them looking at the world through their eyes and in their shoes can make them feel much safer. And can help us find how to do things differently. So in order to be that curious adult that a child might need and retain that childlike sense of curiosity, things we can do. We can wonder what need is being met here. And this is a question I have at the back of my mind always whenever I'm seeing any kind of behavior from a child that is happening repeatedly and I'm not sure why. And I will think, why is this happening? What's in it for the child? What need is this behavior meeting? So we get curious about that and we explore. Is this a behavior that's happening because this child needs attention? Maybe their basic physiological needs haven't been met. They need the food or they need the toilet or they need to drink. Maybe it's that they need to escape this situation for some reason. Maybe it's overwhelming or there's a trigger in here. Maybe this behavior is meeting a need for sensory regulation. Perhaps they are stimming or self-harming because in some way that's meeting that need for sensory regulation. Maybe they are seeking care and connection and this is the only way that they have found so they're kind of attachment needing. Maybe this behavior is the only way that they have found of being heard. And just a little caveat on that. For some children, particularly those who don't have yet great communication skills, either because they are young or there's some kind of barrier to communication, often their behavior is the very most effective way for them to talk to us. And so we might need to work on enabling them to communicate with us in other ways. But you can be heard very loud and very clearly by refusing to go to certain places, by refusing to eat in certain places, by not speaking at all, by using our behavior to send a loud message. And that does not mean, and it's important to note this, that does not mean that the child has sat there like a little professor on gone. Okay, so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna stop speaking when I go into this class because actually I'm deeply uncomfortable with that class and I would rather that I were removed from it. If I stop speaking, then I think what will happen is the adults will hear me ironically and they'll remove me. That's not what's going on. What's going on here is a cycle of positive reinforcement. So perhaps on an occasion the child becomes overwhelmed and find that they can't find their words and they get a bit more adult input that time, the situation changes or they're removed. And so that reinforces the not speaking and then perhaps similar things happen again over time and it reinforces that process. And so it happens subconsciously, generally, not that the child is being calculated about this. So yes, it's a very, very good way of being heard, but it's usually quite deeply driven rather than a manipulative or calculated thing on the part of the child. And then we can also dig into our curiosity at times of calm. So at times of calm with the child, explore what's working, what's not, what might we try next, try to consider yourselves to be like little professors, having just said the child's not like a little professor. Together we can be scientists and we can create little experiments for ourselves. I wonder what would happen if next time we're in that situation, we tried X and we can try that and then at the next time of calm, we reflect on it. And we go, did that work? Should we be doing it again or did it not? And we lose it. We need to create this really open, honest, two-way communication where the child can be honest about what's working for them, what they need from us and their other supporting adults, what we can do differently and where we can be honest with them too. So there's no blame, no shame, no accusations, no judgment here, just genuine curiosity about what we need to be doing more of and what we can do differently in order for things to feel a little bit different next time. Okay, so there's your five C's of how to be a safe adult, how to be an adult that enables children to feel safe and these five C's actually work across all ages. So in fact, you might just look to adopt some of these more generally in your life. So we are looking for people who are calm. We are looking to be consistent. We are looking to communicate in ways that enable the child to hear what we're saying. We are looking to create connections and to keep always a childlike sense of curiosity. I hope that there were some ideas in here that resonated with you. I am absolutely sure that there were several ideas in here that you are already doing, already familiar with, in which case well done, do more of them and tell other people in your life working with the same children or supporting them how you do those things and what works for you. Show them, share them, help them to do that and maybe learn a little bit from them about how they might do one of the C's that you find a little bit more tricky. We all find that different things come naturally to us or we practice them more and that there are other bits that are a bit harder. Don't feel like you have to be the perfect adult right away or all the time but just try to take some tiny steps forward if you think there are some things in your kind of everyday practice that might change a little bit. If you like these ideas and you have got a team or colleagues that you want to share them with, I have put together a bite-sized CPD session that runs through them with beautiful slides so that if you would like to, you could run this as a mini training session. Having listened to the podcast will give you a really good insight into what goes behind it but actually there are slides and there is also a video walkthrough of actually using those specific slides if you want to. You'll find there's loads of overlap between that and between this but if you want to be able to teach this, essentially I've put everything together for you to be able to do that. Do do so and if you do, I'd love to hear how it went. So one of the funny things in my life, I spend a lot of time creating things and not a lot of time hearing back about how they're used. So sometimes I'm not quite sure what to make more of, how to do things better and that sort of thing. So if you're using what I'm creating, I would love it if you would tell me how. I love hearing how people use my things and share them. It makes me feel good for one thing. So I'm often just sat here on my own making stuff in the little tower of joy with my coloured books but it's quite nice to hear from you but also if you've got suggestions for other content or how I can make it better would be amazing. Okay, thank you for your time today. Thank you for everything that you are doing for the children in your care and remember to be kind to yourselves as well. Okay, until next time, over and out.


Tired of the everyday grind? Ever dream of a life of romantic adventure? Want to get away from it all? We offer you... Escape! Escape! Designed to free you from the four walls of today for a half hour of high adventure! A lying in a wartime prison camp, surrounded by a desperate and brutal enemy.  Listen now, as escape brings you Anthony Ellis's exciting story, four went home. Gimme three. Honest man.  Come on, come on. Dutch one. Don't you know it's drawn to an inside straight. He'll never learn. Be good, baby, be good. Sap. Oh, I'm happy. I'll play these. Wow. A lot of bull. Listen to him. Play these, bull. How about you, cursive? Me? I'm honest. Three. Honest. Oh, great. I'm honest. And the dealer takes... One? Two. Okay, who bets? First bet. Of course you'll. Okay, okay, I'm thinking. High check. There were five of us, reading around the floor clockwise. Jerry Mitchell Infantry. He was the kid. The Nazis got him at the bulge. He'd seen a lot of war and he was sick because of it. He was a good kid. Mitch? I'll see it and raise a half. Oh, wait a minute. Next to him, I'm said. Henry Dutch Armstead Infantry. He'd been in the bulge too, along with Mitch. He was from Pennsylvania. He used to play football. In fact, he made a career of it for seven years. Went from school to school, south and west. Call himself a football bum. His pal was Mitch. Dutch was okay. A big guy. Dutch? A call. Then Sandy Saperstein. Dark, wiry sap. Machine gunner. He taught math in a small upstate New York school and turned in his uniform somewhere in Belgium. A quiet man. Sap? Call and raise 50. Then there was Curcio. Andy Curcio, kid from Danbury. He had a job in a half factory waiting for him when he got home. Curcio had been blown out of his tank, which is lucky for him. The other guys didn't do so well. And Curcio never forgot it. He was still fighting the war, even the prison camp. Curcio? Apple. I'm out. What have you got, Dutch? Bullets and dolls. Three deuces, three. That beats me. I have a small straight. Straight to what, Sap? To the eight. That's tough. Mine goes to the ten. Bull. Ever see anything like that? Righty, Donald, yes, sap. Oh, yes, I got it. Three, eighty-five for Sergeant Neston. Give my good shuffle, huh? Oh, sure, sure. Anything. Put them away, fellas. There goes the lights. Oh, well, another day, another dollar. Got a raise, eh, sap? Ah, funny, funny. Right here with Ariel, dad. Saturday night, Saturday poker game with the guys. We knew it was Saturday because we kept score of the days on the calendar. You didn't count days you kept score with them. And the game was to see who was gonna win. You were the days. I guess as prison camps go, it wasn't bad. It wasn't good. It was nothing. The Nazis didn't talk to us much and we didn't talk to them. All except Curcio.  The next hour or so, I lay in my bunk thinking... thinking about Juni and home. I figured most of the others were asleep until a pair of legs swung down from the bunk above and dropped to the floor next to me. It was supper, Steve. You sleep, Sarge? Hey, listen, I got an idea. Again? I think this one will work. I'll knock it off, Sappie. Get some sleep. Oh, wait a minute. Look. What's that? I found it last week. A piece of coat hanger. Yeah, but it's all twisted. I know. I did it. I think I can open the door with it. Unlock the door with that? Uh-huh. I tried it. When? Last night when you were all asleep. I didn't have time to get it open because I heard the guard telling me, but I think it'll work. Here, let me see that. You see, the lock's old-fashioned. Mitch? Yeah. None of those dreams again, I guess. The kid doesn't look too good. Yeah, I know. Come on. What are you going to do? See if we can work for the door. How long ago did the guard pass you here? About ten minutes. It gives us five more than before he comes back. Hey, what do you think, Sarge? We can make a break? Let's wait and see if we can open it. Okay, go ahead. I just got to catch someone on the bottom. I felt it last night. You haven't told the other guys, have you? None of those sense getting them all excited. Yeah. Come on. It was cold standing at the door. We were always cold in the camp, but that night I noticed it more. Saperstein worked away with this bit of wire, this tongue sticking out between his teeth and concentration. About four minutes must have passed when... I'd try the knob. Close it quick. Guard's coming. Can you lock it again? I think so. You might have heard Mitch. You'll hear. Stop it. Another minute and get it locked again. Yeah, if I can. It took another ten minutes to lock it, but I think it took a while. Saperstein and I agreed that I should talk to the guys in the morning after inspection and see if we could work out a plan. I figured the best way would be at exercise. Mitch was cleaning up the room and Saperstein was playing handball with fellas from another unit, so they were just Armstead and Curcio and me. It was too cold to sit, so we walked up and down the enclosure. It's cold as witches' nose. And you're not just kidding. Look, I want to tell you guys something. What is it, Sarge? Saperstein and me got the door open last night. Paul, you're kidding. You and Locke... Keep it down, will you? Now, Locke, from what we hear, our guys are about 80 miles west. Maybe. Okay. Now, if they get closer, we got to take a chance one way or the other. Well, let's get out of here. That or try and figure what the Nazis will do to us when the guys are going to spring us up. I've been thinking about that. Plenty. There's more than a thousand of us in here. I've done it before. Gas, machine guns. Well, that's the chance. What about the fence? Do you think we can get over? Might. Yeah, but it's electrified. Not over there, Curcio. Not by the gate. Paul, let's right under the tower. They'd see us before we got anywhere near the searchlights. That's what I mean. That's the chance. It's all right with me. Sure. We'll see the other guys later. Oh, hey. Hey, what about Mitch, though? I don't know. How do you think, Dutch? He goes with. Sure he does. You think he can make it? He's in bad shape, Dutch. He might blow up. You leave that to me. The kid's okay. He's just a little nervous. He's okay. He can make it. Why don't we try it, Sarge? Tonight? Might as well tonight. Oh, boy, wouldn't that be something? Oh, boy, give me a couple of more Nazis before this war is over. Yes, well, you do that. Come on, we better get back with the others. Hey, is he over there? Bombers. Give it to him, good boys. Lancasters. No, they're ours. Lancasters. A buck. Okay, a buck. What do you say, sons? It doesn't learn much in aircraft recognition, does it? Air Lancasters. Oh, bull. We had thought of breaking out before, but it never came to anything, mostly because it couldn't be done in daylight. It was no sense trying to dig, either, on account of a rock underneath. We'd found that out a long time back. But now, with a key, it was different. We didn't get a chance to talk together again until just before final inspection and lock-up. Mitch was the big kid. He was the big kid. He was the big kid. He was the big kid. He had a lock-up. Mitch was the big problem, and I put it up to him the way it was. That's great, fellas. Count me in. You think you're up to it, Mitch? Me? Sure. Of course. He'll be all right, I'd tell you. Now, wait a minute, Dutch. Let him decide for himself. Now, we want you to go, Mitch, but if you don't feel like you can make it, that's work, that's swell. How about that, Mitch? What's the matter with you guys? I'm coming with you. I'm okay, honest. He's coming. Oh, watch out for him. He's coming, that's all. All right. All right, knock it off, inspection.  Everything okay, huh? Oh, help me, Curcio. You pull something like that again, I'm gonna bust your wide open. Bullies are just a stinkin' knife. That's enough, Curcio. Okay. Now, if we get out, we start headin' west. Make as much time as we can before it gets light. Then hide out until tomorrow night. With luck, we ought to meet our guys along the way. What happens if they pull back? Maybe the guard who said they were 80 miles away was giving us the needle. Well, what about that? Well, listen, what about it? Maybe they want us to make a break so they can have an excuse to... Take it easy, kid. You see what I mean? Well, keep on walkin' till we find them. Hey. Hey, fellas, how about poker? You know, celebration last night? What do you say? Yeah, sure. It's okay. Fine, but break them off, Zap. I feel lucky tonight. We will return to escape, and tonight's story four went home in just a moment. Daily, the broadcasts of Radio Free Europe and Radio Free Asia strike through the Iron Curtain, bringing the truth about the free world of the captive peoples behind it. Help send a message by giving to the 1952 Crusade for Freedom. And now, back to escape. We played poker badly. Every one of us looked at cards and thought of something else. I guess Mitch was the worst. He was really scared. And Mitch hadn't always been a scared guy. He talked a lot about what he was going to do and joined up with our fellas. Talked about his girl and home and too many things. Because we knew he was scared, we let him go on talking. Then it was lights out. I made the guys lay down on their bunks. Nobody was going to sleep for sure, but the rest wasn't going to hurt. It was a little after nine. Say, uh, say Dutch. Um, what was the scar when you played pan? When I played with who? Um, the tech. The year you went to the ball. 34-6. We won. Yeah, that was about 34-6, 34. Boy, what a shlug. Got my feet busted in that one. Okay. Yeah. Kid, you okay? Me? Sure. Rare to go. That's a boy. Hey, what's the time, Sarge? Not even 9.30. Lots of time. Take it easy. Sure.  I knew it backwards. I remember seeing the movie with Junie at home and all the little things that happened that night. The movie, the coke afterwards. Everything except the name of the song. Hey. What is it, Sarge? Well, fellas, what's the name of this? Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Oh, yeah. You're talking to my tongue again. You must remember this. Yeah. Oh, it's kiss. Yeah, kiss is just a kiss. Boy, it's more than that. Hey! I know. Time goes by. No, as time goes by. As time goes by. Yes. You remember Bergman? Yeah. You know, my wife Junie's Swedish, and you know how the Swedes say Ingrid Bergman? No, how? Ingrid Bergman. No kidding. Yeah. Ingrid Bergman. Get out, Sarge. You think? We'll get out. If anything happens. Nothing. Nothing is going to happen, kid. Sure. I know. But if it does, what do you tell my folks?  Mitch, why don't you stick it out here? Hey, kid, you'd be okay. No, I'm fine.  Sure, sure.  No, kid, you're okay. Listen, I got some Pokemon that you collect from a couple of you, and I don't forget. How am I going to forget? I'll be busted for ten years paying up what I lost in here. What's the time, Sarge? Ten-thirty. Ten-thirty. Ten-thirty. The guard passed our door every fifteen minutes. I count it from nine o'clock. And he was coming back for the sixth time. And he had passed six more times. Then we'd go. I thought about Mitch and the others. Talk about the flip of a coin. This was it. You give a guy three stripes on his sleeve, and he does the thinking for the rest. And if he thinks wrong, what about that?  And there was still time when it was a couple of minutes to twelve.  There may be.  A Nazi's face. A Nazi's mind. Okay. Now we'll wait until the guard passes at twelve, and then, sap, you get to the door and get it unlocked in a hurry. Why not unlock it now? No, no, we can't take a chance. I want it quiet, real quiet.  Stay in your bunks until I say. Are you ready, sap? Knock it off. How's it coming, sap?  Sorry, Sarge. Take your time. Take it easy. It's bending when I put on too much pressure. It's okay, just take your time. You'll get it. You sure? Yeah. All right. We go now, Sarge. Now stay single file. When we get out of the building, get as close as you can to the wall. You'll have to time the searchlight as we go, Curcio.  Give the signal to drop when you see it. I'll do the same in front. Okay. What about the gate, Sarge? I told you. We make a run for it. Get over one by one each time the light passes. Sap opened the door. We went out into the corridor. It was crazy. I kept thinking how crazy it was as we moved along to the entrance to the building. Curcio was last.  Then Armstead and Mitch and myself. I could hear the kid breathing behind me. Quick, jumpy breaths like he was winded from running. And then we were outside in the enclosure. The light down. We flopped to the ground. And that bright watchdog looked right over us. And beyond, cutting through the dark. They'll see us.  We're going to be okay. And we went another ten yards past another building. And now we'll make it. There's the searchlight made a return trip. We were about a hundred yards from the gate when we stopped and crowded into a narrow alleyway between the cookhouse and a shed. From there on it was open and country across the enclosure to the gate fence. And that was going to be tough. The guard's tar was almost directly in front of us. What's next, Sarge? The noise the better. It's a good idea. Okay, Sarge. All right, I'll go first. And you, Mitch. Dutch. Sap and Curcio. All right, William. Yeah, okay. Put your little poles. Oh no.   Come on. Keep in quiet.   Get out of here. Get out of here.   Come on. Get out of here. Dutch, keep in quiet. Quiet. Get out of here. Get out of here. Out of here. Get out of here. Get out of here. Don't fight this. Take it away from me. Don't try to take it easy. Hey, look, the gate's open. Foy, how I'd like to get through there? They must think we already got over. Hey, the searchlights stopped. They left the gate open. What the devil's going to do? It's me. Can you see anybody up in the tower? Wait a minute. Nobody. What do you think, son? I don't know. But maybe we won't have to go over the gate. I get all right, Dutch. Dutch? Kid! Hey, what's with him? He passed out? He... He just suddenly didn't move anymore. The kid's dead. He just... went kind of limp. You'll be crazy. You choked him. You killed him. I did. I didn't... I wanted him to keep quiet, that's all. You saw that, Sarge, didn't you? I just tried to keep him quiet. Yeah. He's dead. Hey, what do you say, Sarge? We can't stay here, huh? Okay. I'm going across. If I get through, follow me one at a time. We walked across to the gate. It was dark. There wasn't a sound. There was not Nazi around. Dutch came last, Carrie and the kid. I guess it wasn't more than 10 minutes later along the road that we saw the first of our tanks. Patton's tanks. Then we knew why we'd been able to walk out of the gate. We kept moving back and we didn't say anything. Not until we got to a medical outfit and left Mitch's body with him. The four of us just kind of stood around waiting for somebody to take us back west. She... If we waited 10 minutes... Yeah, just 10... he was a good kid. It wasn't your fault, Dutch. It could have happened to anyone. Sure. It breaks, I guess. It's not your fault, Dutch. It's okay, Dutch. Well, come on, you guys. We can't find any cigarettes just standing here. We'll just be a couple of minutes.  Yeah, Dutch. We'll be back in a couple of minutes. Escape has brought you four went home written and directed by Anthony Ellis starring William Conrad as the sergeant. Featured in the cast were John Boehner as Olmsted, Peter Leeds as Curcio, Bob Sweeney as Mitch, and Jack Krushen as Saperstein. Editorial supervision is by John Meston, and the special music for Escape is composed and conducted by Leith Stevens. Next week... Across a jungle savannah, your body flaming with fever, while behind you lies certain death, and ahead the endless torches of perpetual imprisonment. So listen next week, when Escape brings you Evelyn Wall's classic story, The Man Who Liked Dickens. Tomorrow night, Lux Radio Theatre adapts an Academy Award winner, the African Queen bringing you Humphrey Bogart in his original role, co-starring Greer Garson. Also tomorrow on most of these same CBS radio stations, listen for Lloyd Nolan in a story titled The Man With Two Heads on Suspense. Roy Rowan speaking, this is the CBS Radio Network.