Okay, if we could queue up the slides. So my name is Marco Marra, and I'm from the British Columbia Cancer Agency Genome Sciences Center. I'd like to thank Elaine and Linda for the opportunity to address you today on one of my favorite topics, sequence-based RNA profiling. And so in an apparently unusual move, what I'd like to do is start the presentation with the acknowledgments, and I'm not advancing the slides here. So maybe I can have some, oh, assistance from the guys in the back. The advance is not advancing. Yeah, I'm pressing the button. There we go. Oh, whoa, okay. That's number one. If we could go forward. Number two. All right. So this slide is a very high-level overview of the organization. This slide is a different slide. This is hands-free, guys. We're in the matrix. So this slide is a high-level organization of TCGA, if you like. And I haven't seen a depiction of this slide. Thank you. Okay. So I thought I'd throw it up there basically for two reasons. One, to emphasize the area that I'm going to talk to that's in the upper left of the slide. But also to point out that TCGA, I think, is remarkable for a bunch of reasons. One of the reasons I think it's remarkable is the focus, the emphasis that it's brought to large-scale analyses of cancer. And I think all of you sitting in this room are evidence that there's a very powerful and compelling attractive force to the availability of such data. So here's my acknowledgment slide. It's one of the more important slides I'm going to show you today. And my reason for putting it right up front is to acknowledge and thank all the individuals that have provided slides and concepts for this particular presentation. I want to apologize in advance if I've butchered any of your slides or their interpretation for those of you that have provided them. I am speaking on behalf today not only of the group in BC, but a larger group that includes Chuck Pru and Neil Hayes at UNC and a large cohort of individuals at Oaxu with whom we've been working on AML fairly intensively. So thanks to you all. And most importantly, thanks to the patients because without them, we wouldn't have a project and we wouldn't have a motivation. So on to the business of the discussion. So RNA-seq is being done primarily in the United States. With some smaller contributions from ourselves and we in BC are primarily generating and to a more limited extent analyzing microRNA sequencing data. And I've listed here just a few applications for those data modalities. I think some particularly excellent examples of RNA-seq. Just a few applications for those data modalities. I think some particularly exciting opportunities exist around novel analyses using these very sensitive measures. And I think in particular the opportunity for the first time exists to produce a map, the wires together, the exons that are expressed in various malignancies and use this information in novel ways. So we're excited to see those kinds of analyses emerge. So there is a large and growing cohort of RNA-seq data produced by the group at UNC. And thanks to Chuck Peru for the slide where he's showing the availability of more than 1,500 RNA-seq lanes and samples at the DCC. This is growing very rapidly. The other point to take away from this slide is the extent to which these RNA-seq data can be used to define cancer types and subtypes. It's a very beautiful and striking picture. Along with the evolving data sets that you'll find at the DCC and indeed elsewhere are an evolving cohort of tools. And this slide is too small to read and that's probably the point that there are numerous tools that are available now and coming on board for analyses of RNA-seq data both at the level of the entire gene but also at the level of individual exons and exon-exon junctions. Today I'm going to highlight some examples taken from two of the tools that we've had some focus on. That would be Transibis, which is a de novo assembly tool for RNA-seq data, and Alexa-seq, which is used primarily for exon-level expression analysis. But before we go there, I want to take the opportunity to talk about how technology changes are going to mean that the amount and hopefully the quality of the RNA-seq data will increase and improve over time. So this is a very old slide that shows on the bottom axis read numbers and on the y-axis the coverage of exons. This was done in a colorectal cancer cell line. And the purpose of the slide is to simply show the trajectory of gene discovery. So there's an initial rapid rise in the rate of gene discovery with increasing numbers of reads, and then the tail of the distribution indicates a relatively slow accumulation of new exons, but rather speaks to an increasing coverage of those exons. And so when we started with the AML data, if we were to plot the number of reads on this trajectory, that's where we were. And to get to that point, about 125 million reads required something like two lanes of information per case. With the evolution of at least the Illumina sequencing platform, this is about where we are today for TCGA RNA-seq data, where you're no longer at two lanes per sample, but two samples per lane. And even at multiplexing these samples, we have an increasing amount of data. So we expect the coverage of exons to be incrementally increased as well. Okay, so I have enormous enthusiasm for the concept of these exon wiring maps, as I'm calling them. This is, I think, a primary strength of RNA-seq data, the ability to look at exon level expression and also to look at novel structures that emerge from assembly of the RNA-seq data. And so another very dense slide whose only real purpose is to make the case that there are a large number of ways in which transcripts can be altered during splicing, and these alterations can in turn lead to effects on the protein product. And so in theory, one could believe that positive selection might be acting on many of these mechanisms of splicing to produce effects giving cancer cells growth advantages. So it behooves us in the interest of comprehensive data generation to start looking at this in great detail. So if one considers exon level expression across a number of cell lines, one can see on the top metal the gene model of actin, excuse me. And below it, one sees a graph with a series of lines that represent levels at exon and intron, if you like, locations throughout that gene model. These are RNA-seq data where we've plotted the expression of these features across that gene model.  All the expression appears on this plot to be pretty equivalent. If you look at the expression in drug-sensitive versus drug-resistant colon cancer cell lines, you can find many examples where exons are dropped or retained. This is one example in which there is an exon skipping event, and it shows up quite nicely in this Alexa-seq plot. So what you can see is an exon missing in one of the samples relative to the other, and that's indicated on the gene model diagram with the lines indicating the splicing events that this signifies. That's a relatively straightforward example. More complex examples are easily found. Here's a case where there's a whole lot of action going on around exon 9 in this particular gene CA-12, where there's exon skipping events that actually skip two exons, some that skip one exon, so on and so forth, and these are predicted, for the most part, to have an influence on the nature of the protein product. And then finally, one other example which shows that in this case, the expression of particular exons is not necessarily reflected in the overall expression of the entire gene. So here's a gene-level expression analysis focused on TPM2 across two different subtypes of diffuse large B-cell lymphoma, and what you can see in these two subtypes indicated in the different colors are approximately equivalent levels of overall gene expression. But if you look in more detail at the exon level, what you can see is a subtype associated differential expression in which an exon is either skipped or retained. So this makes possible some analysis of the details of the gene expression data at the level of these exons as opposed to the entire gene. Now these kinds of concepts in TCGA are being expanded upon and refined, and what I'm showing here is an elegant slide provided by Chad Creighton from Baylor, in which he's showing expression levels across 629 differentially expressed exons between two different stages of colorectal cancer, and showing that for these exons that there is a linkage between splicing patterns and overall levels of gene expression. So this is where I think we are going. So one of the things that we focused on, at least in our group, pretty heavily is trying to find evidence of expressed structures that are not easily found using alignment-based approaches. And so some of these structures can be quite complicated and defy identification solely by alignment. And so we use de novo assembly pretty heavily to try and find such things. We use transibis for this. There are other assembly tools available, of course, and shown here is simply a cartoon that emphasizes that for this particular assembly approach we like to have paired-end reads. We like to assemble those reads using an approach that you can read about in that reference. And we like to find reads that map to that novel structure that actually span the fusion gene breakpoint. We like then to align these contigs we call them back to the genome as a verification of the fusion event. So this has been done pretty exhaustively. We think for the AML RNA-seq data that we've been analyzing in collaboration with the folks at WashU. And shown here is simply a distribution of the different fusion events that have been detected using this assembly approach. Tim Lee showed this yesterday. And so we find both the things that we expect to find in AML data. Those are the known things in blue and at relatively low frequency a distribution of events that tail off. That includes some genes that we think might be interesting to consider in the context of AML. I should make the point now that I'm thinking about it that the transibis pipeline that we offer is not automated from front to rear. There's a fair amount of manual interrogation that goes into this. But as a consequence, the verification rates tend to be very high. So if people are interested, there are individuals in this room, Gordon Robertson, notably who can give you clues and pointers as to the use of the tool. The other thing that assembly offers is the opportunity to detect more complex things than fusions between two genes. These would fall into two broad categories. For example, partial tandem duplications and internal tandem duplications. And I won't take you through all the topography. The nucleating theme here is de novo assembly of the reads followed by alignment to aid in interpretation. And this too seems capable of finding known events as well as novel events in AML. We have yet to verify the novel events for PTDs and ITDs. All right, so as we transit along the shopping list of things that you can do with the data, I'd like to spend some time discussing expressed mutations. And so what I mean by that are transcripts that seem to be encoded from loci that are somatically mutated. So there have been a number of groups that have looked for mutations in RNA-seq data and were guilty of this transgression. As you might imagine, there are a fairly significant proportion of false negatives in relying solely on RNA-seq for mutation identification. The flip side though is that if you find such things, genes that contain a mutation that are expressed, you have some knowledge of the context in which these mutations are expressed. And that can be useful helping to think about the function that the mutations might impart. I think a good example is that of EZH2 where in the expressed data for diffuse large B-cell lymphoma we see over and over and over again transcripts that seem to be affected at a particular tyrosine residue within the set domain of this important methylator of histone H3K27. So they're there and you can find them, albeit with some false negatives perhaps approaching 50% depending on the sample that you're looking at. This is being, I think, aggressively pursued at the moment and is the topic of some hot conversation. I remember a discussion with Gatti earlier in the week where it was being argued that you can use RNA-seq for sequence verification of candidate somatic mutations from tumor normal genome pairs. And this nice slide from Matt Wilkerson I think makes the point quite well. And so if you look at the text what you'll see are some statistics based on medians. So if you, in lung, you can find that about 66% or so of the candidate somatic mutations have RNA-seq data that map to that locus. Of those about three quarters are detected for an overall yield of about 50% in the RNA-seq data. So one can imagine as these large projects go forward one would use the RNA-seq data in combination with the genome data to verify the existence of mutations in a perhaps rather rapid fashion. Going even further, Angela in the Harvard group has been using RNA-seq data to confirm, if you like, fusions that are detected in low-pass-covered sequencing of colorectal tumors. And these just show some examples that Angela has provided in which it's possible to use this in a mode that's confirmatory not only at the level of the individual bases but much larger structural effects. And so we can imagine that this validation produces some independent evidence of the existence of the fusion but also provides some information as to how the fusion is wired together in the context of unexpressed transcript. Okay, so covering a lot of ground. I apologize for that. Shifting gears yet again. I want to have the opportunity just very briefly to make a few comments on microRNA sequencing which is our principal contribution at this moment to TCGA. So there are now on the order of 3,000 or so microRNA-seq profiles at the DCC representing something like 18 different cancer types and the diagram, the clustering diagram below simply shows the tumor sites for which these are available and the ability to use these data to correlate with disease pathology. So one of the main rationales for us when we entered into this was the opportunity to think about the interplay between messenger RNAs and microRNAs. That's this little diagram down here and so we imagine that microRNAs can play regulatory roles that act at various cell biological levels and so we were anxious to generate these data to enable analyses that would look at the correlation between microRNA and messenger RNA sequences. I'm not going to talk about any of that. You can speak to Gordon Robertson or Andy Chu who are both here that can tell you the status of that. Instead I think what I want to point out in my observation is that in addition to having the potential to look at these regulatory relationships we think that we have some evidence that suggests that these poor old star microRNA guys sitting up there that have been relegated to the degradation been upstream of the gene regulatory process may not actually be degraded in a way that prohibits their function in a regulatory context. There are also, as we're learning, all sorts of interesting features about microRNAs revealed by the sequence including the addition of templated bases which can expand the target range of these things so clearly this is a fairly rich resource that I hope people out there are tapping into and analyzing aggressively. For AML, just as an example, there were on the order of 190 libraries sequenced with an average yield of about a million mapped reads detecting between 270 to 400 odd known microRNAs. Not that many novel microRNAs are found using this depth of sequencing and the approaches that we are using to process, but even so what we have noticed is a very interesting distribution of the so-called star strand versus mature strand expression.  If the star strand is indeed relegated to the bin as it were and chewed up in an upstream degradation, you wouldn't expect many of them to be around. And what we show here is the ratio from the microRNA sequencing of star strand to mature strand expression and the boxes around the case where the star strand is expressed about seven times that of the mature. And so clearly these are abundant and there are probably regulatory roles that can be inferred from these as well as different targets for their action. So again, this is an invitation if you like to get interested in this area and take it forward. You can of course use the microRNA sequencing for clustering purposes. And so shown here on the right is a microRNA clustering experiment using the AML microRNAs. And on the left, RNA-seq clustering using the AML data. So these are the same cases. And I'm just pointing out areas in which the RNA-seq data agree with the microRNA data. That's the top line. I mean for all of you that aren't challenged with color. So we see here that for the M3 subtype cases the microRNA and messenger RNA clustering data yield about the same result. So they're concordant in this respect. Less concordance is seen in cases that have an NPM1 insertion and that's shown below where the microRNAs seem to be quite sensitive for such cases the messenger RNA is less so. All right. So a quick tour through some of the things that you can use the data for. Now I want to go into an area that I think represents a forward direction for TCGA. And this area really is sense and anti-sense gene expression and the consequences or the potential regulatory consequences of overlapping expression in particular on the plus and minus strands. And so what do I mean by that? Well, I'm showing here a cartoon of sense and anti-sense genes and just for convention purposes we'll call the top gene the sense gene. So these transcripts overlap and what this diagram says is that when the gene on the lower strand is expressed that there's a difference in splicing pattern, frequency of spliced transcripts that is then found as depicted in the lower panel. So an expression of the lower guy is on you tend to see an increase in expression in alpha one. So there's actually a few examples of this but not loads and loads and loads in the literature. So what might this do while splicing perhaps is an influence of this kind of expression? The other thing that has been linked to this kind of expression is silencing through methylation either of chromatin or directly onto DNA. So there's a linkage here that we can exploit in the context of a project like TCGA where cases have both expression data and methylation data as you heard from Peter Laird earlier in this meeting. A more comprehensive example of, if you like, using afymetrics exon arrays as shown here, what I'm showing is the correlated and anti-correlated expression of two exons for the gene Part 9. Those are in blue or red compared to the expression of an antisense gene DTX3L that's in black. And what you can see is when DTX3L goes up the expression of one of the exons in Part 9 goes down, that's the red line. And so there's this anti-correlation effect. And this is seen in a rather pleasing pattern across many different tissues. And so one speculates that this kind of effect might be general for this particular gene. And if you look in TCGA afymetrics exon data you can see on the bottom panel that there are quite a significant number of genes with sense antisense correlated apparent splicing going on. And so a deeper analysis then is before us to address the question as to what might the function of this expression be. So I think in order for TCGA to go there and go there hard we should be considering the use of strand-specific RNA-seq. This is not something that we've done. So strand-specific RNA-seq is a modification of the RNA-seq that allows knowledge of the strands to which the individual reads map. The method that we're quite enamored with at the moment is the one published originally in NAR in 2009. And the bottom reference there is a rather detailed evaluation of the performance of a number of different protocols. So I encourage you if you're interested to have a look at these. So what I'm showing in the black track is RNA-seq data analyzed in a strand insensitive way. So this is maybe what you would see if you didn't know about strandedness. You can see all the peaks where the reads are lining up across the gene models on the lower part of the diagram. With strand-specific information which is shown in the center in the orange and the red you can now start to attribute the expression of these individual exons to the annotations below. Which gives you, I think, a rather more detailed view of the pattern of expression of these closely linked and even overlapping low side. So there's information here. You might be able to figure out how the reads go if you have good annotation but there are cases where some of the annotation isn't yet available and that's one of the things I think this project is going to do. And so shown here on the top again is a strand insensitive analysis of the orange peaks but the only gene model available is the one at the bottom. And so if you resolve this into strand-sensitive analysis what you can see is the gene model at the bottom is represented by the orange peaks and the big thing in the middle is something else entirely. So this has two meanings, I think. One is that you could misinterpret the expression of this gene by lumping all the reads in together. You've discovered a novel and potentially differentially expressed transcript in your analysis of cancer samples. This happens to be a non-coding RNA. Okay. So just wrapping up I'd like to emphasize what I said right at the beginning of the talk which is we are very pleased to be part of this project. I think it's an amazing union of intellectual energies and thank you all for being interested enough to come to this meeting. It's fantastic. I'd like to acknowledge the foresight and vision of the funders particularly NCI and NHGRI and of course we are supported by the BC Cancer Foundation. So with that I'm going to stop and we have 25 seconds for a question. I have a question. For the RNA-seq mutation confirmation do you have to use a specific nucleotide as the verification or are you looking at the whole gene of the So when we're verifying the existence of mutations I suppose different folks do it rather differently in the examples that I showed what we typically do is we match the RNA-seq data against the genome data and if the two are in accordance at a particular locus then we would argue that that's a verification result. So it follows on the nature of the actual mutation in the DNA. Because for using the RNA-seq for screening purposes the false positive rate seems to be much higher if you're looking at samples that don't have the no mutation but you're suspecting it in either an exon or somewhere along the gene. If you don't have a matched normal sample and you find something in the RNA-seq data then you're going to have to concoct a rationale that doesn't involve somatic mutation that's for sure. So you need some source of normal if you want to claim it's a somatic event. We have I think used the RNA-seq data fairly successfully as looking for evidence of recurrent expressed mutations and in the absence of normal this doesn't prove that that recurrent event is a somatic mutation because it could be a polymorphism for example but that does focus our attention on the things that we would take forward through to validation and tumor normal. There's a lot of mutational noise in the RNA-seq data alone so you have to be careful how you use it. From our experience it seems that the false positive is much higher than what seems to be presented. I think that's right. All of these false positive issues are related to the exact algorithm that you employ and the deductive process that you employ but there are many more false positives of using RNA-seq solely for mutation detection is on the agenda. You have to be careful. I think with that I want to talk to you later but I want to keep the session moving forward here.


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So, Bangla Translation for Image Optimization. First, I want to translate this content, create an issue and select my reviewer of Hesheba and submit it in the form of this translation. After submitting it, I want to mention from my training team that I am a reviewer of Hesheba Chilamth. I am an admin of Benjamin Evans and he messaged me that I will not be able to review this content. So, I wrote that I will be happy to translate this content. There were three of them and I was a reviewer of three of them. So, after doing this content, he assigned me here. I am a reviewer of Hesheba Chilamth. After reviewing this content, I gave a modification to Sakit Bhai. After doing this modification, I just fixed all the errors. You have mentioned, kindly check. Looks great, now ready for publish. When I talked to this journalist and now I will show you a journalist who is already first. This journalist is not normal but he created this draft. Learn.worldpress website. This dashboard created a user account. So, when you first translate this account, you will not be able to log in with your normal ID.  High faculty, faculty admin, I translated my first content. I want to draft my translation. Translation, please take necessary steps or something. After giving a message, you will get a training. Learn.worldpress website. This WordPress site will give you an email account. Against it and you will get a draft. You will not be able to see this draft admin and your children. So, this draft I have added you to this draft post on Learn.worldpress. So, once mohebol has completed the translation review, please continue from list 5 from team handbook. That means, you will draft this content and then when you are ready for publish, you will publish this site and open this content. So, you will be able to publish this content before the URL. And I have missed another section in the air match. So, I recommend you to publish your subtitle in WordPress TV. And you can approve the subtitle. I will show you the process in the next. It will be the last. So, this is the process of translating the content. If you have any questions, you can ask them in the next note-taker part. Content translation is a part. And we can contribute it through note-taking. I will share another resource. Mr.Johan, do you have anything to say? Yes. Before going to the note-taking part, I want to share with you. We have contributed a lot. So, the process you have seen, it is a collaborative contribution. You can name 5, 6, 10 million for this contribution. And you can do one thing. The contribution you have made is very important. You have contributed for this. So, the process you have shown, this process is very easy. And you have given examples to Mr.Mohibul Bhai. I have surely invited Mr.Mohibul Bhai to the collaboration. Right, Mohibul Bhai? Yes. So, if you want to learn together, you can start this process with one or two partners in your work. If you help one person step by step, you will be able to see it through collaboration. Thank you. Yes. Next, I will show you our profile base. We have a recognition site. It provides some reward WordPress. So, the best part of the training team contributor is you have to write minimum 3 recap notes or 3 translation. So, the next step is to write recap notes. So, I have minimized it. Our training team, when it comes to URL, we have a training team, a meeting recap, a blog post. The blog posts provide a training team with a meeting. We have a meeting here in Sharma. So, this meeting note-taking is very easy. We can do general work. So, I think it is very easy to do translation. You can take this step here. I think it is very effective. So, recently, I had a meeting. I have done this note-taking. I will publish it. You can meet me in my discussion today. So, as you can see, I have done this note-taking in 24 ways. I have published it. I will open it. This meeting is the first one. I will give all the activities here. Because I have done multiple note-taking, I think it is better to do it as soon as possible. I think it is a very long article. I think I will do it as soon as possible. I will do it as soon as possible. So, this note-taking is the first one. I have clicked the slag-logger here. So, this training team will open the slag-logger. Now, there is a meeting here. At the right here next need volunteer I want to take notes for November 28 and I have made a meeting note for November 20 then our meeting will continue and the discussions will be next meeting will be published in 7 days I will go to dashboard and I will share with you the things I have done and I will help you with your progress I will start with my make dot word training first I want to take note then I will talk about I was the hello faculty admin faculty admin training faculty I was note taker for this weeks meeting so I need admin access when you give admin access you can enter dashboard when you enter dashboard you can click on all post add new title training title training team meeting recap I will give you note taker on November 28 then I will tell you the content I will just save it as a template so I will just give note taker meeting recap recap for training team meeting so when you select this template then automatically this template will be ready and inside this template in this section the content will be ready so I will start the meeting when the meeting starts I will go to next meeting here meeting starts so I will copy the link in this meeting then I will click on it more actions copy link this meeting followed I will replace the link sorry it is a github link slag log each meeting will create an issue you can see it here github.com wordpress learn you can see the issues in this section so the issues in this meeting it is our meeting agenda November 28 28 23 so I will copy the link in this meeting then here I will give the meeting link next time in this section introduce and welcome introduction and welcome who is joining please say hello and share your flags something you can give so I will do it I will copy something you can copy maximum problem maximum problem I have collected the username 26 people most of the people have given the username but some of them can not give the username like Robin Kumar it is the slacker username it is not necessary wordpress username wordpress username popfox here open profile popfox username wordpress open Robin Kumar copy wordpress profile if you publish your meeting recap then you can reject it you can use the username you can use the username just click on the slacker username and click 3 dots copy member ID copy the member ID and paste it you can paste it as you have connected the slacker account so you have to write the user ID Robin it is wordpress username and you can use the wordpress username so if you want to add Robin you can write the wordpress username and you can හටිේම්ු කරනාමුනුතුවේක්ේිල්වුවන්යයික්වruleරීමීම්ත්න්යික්ගයම් මිශ්තින්යමත්නුත්ත්වුන්න්න්යිල්වුවීම්යම්යිත්න්වුනුනේ්වන්ය�


So we're going to start the meeting if that's okay with everybody so introduction here so why don't we why don't we just start by going around the room and everybody introduce yourself I don't know say your name whatever you feel needs to be said okay great so I'm karma George I live in Ward 7 I'm excited about the new steering committee and the new feelings and vibes and things going into this NPA so really okay I'm Hank Presky from Ward 4 and new to the end well everybody's new to the NPA here and but I don't have any experience with other NPAs and anxious to be involved we're glad to be here since 1985 the ANC advisory neighborhood council and then and I used to attend these a lot but then I had a period where I was gone from Burlington lived in Jeffersonville for like eight seven eight years and then I've come back I mean I had foot in both communities but now I've been back for eight years here and I've been gradually putting my feet back in things here so here I am oh and my background is in I'm an writer and an editor and used to be a journalist I'm retired now awesome I used to be an ace at grammar and all that stuff and more and more I start going oh is that right so you know but but yeah I still I really yeah so that's my that's my strength in this group anyway so I think that's what I bring to it you're a strength yeah that's my strength no you are our strength oh I am as we're all strengths we all have strengths I'm Vicki gerson Ward 7 what word do you live in oh I'm sorry seven yep okay so yeah so so here here is where I'm gonna talk about our starting point okay so we have an original document which is the bylaws from 2008 and that's our starting point and one of the catalysts for change was the act was a person who is transgender being treated poorly and and going to having the courage to speak up and go to the city and go to the city council and say hey this is not right and the city council responded unanimously saying hey this needs to be cleared up and NPAs need a clear non-discrimination policy so I would say that is our top priority in this meeting okay and Vicki has taken the time to put together some great recommendations and the challenge here is that they're on the CEDO version which is a little bit different from the 2008 version so I'd like to figure out how do we get it do we my question to all of you is do we make this leap to the CEDO version and just tell when we bring to the the full community do we say hey we we feel that the CEDO version has a lot to offer or what do we say why if someone asks us why did you go from the 2008 to the CEDO version I don't think we're there yet because I think that we have to determine you know what format we have so much to work to do like determining what parts of the original I think a lot of the original is in the CEDO it is it's just yeah different and the format is different and I think that so that's why I'm just saying I don't think we're there and I kind of looked at the CEDO version because I felt like at the last meeting that the intention was to push the CEDO version and so that's where I spent my time and there are lots of I did look at all of the the bylaws from the various wards and I could see where CEDO extracted ideas from them yeah and they do a great job yeah I agree I I think it needs work I don't think it's a final draft but and I think it's important that we all feel comfortable with all the parts that are in there and then we'll know what to bring to the people yeah okay I'm not to bring up Robert's rules or anything but I think if we're moving to a different version I think we probably have to delete these the current bylaws from our in our in our meeting if we're taking on the CEDO version because that's the only thing that the city has and if we're abandoning that but but I'm down the road we would have to do that for sure right I don't know that we would have to do that because we're revising I don't know that we would have to do anything other because it's a revision so yeah yeah you revise something you can change the whole thing it doesn't say to what extent it's right but if we're starting with the CEDO version it's very different to this right now we're just we're just until we get to the point we don't even need to think about that I feel you know I mean it's okay I mean I would start are we able to decide to start with one as the skeleton of our new bylaws and then go back and look at the other and take changes from it if we want so here I am totally open to whatever like I just want to preface what I'm gonna say but I had a conversation with and I don't want to speak for winter but she she expressed to me that she felt she has a strong feelings about that original so I don't those are not my feelings but I just want to share that somebody said that to me so not that that's you know nice it's just that there may be people who have feelings about moving to the CEDO version I like the CEDO version so why what do you guys feel like you feel like the CEDO is where we should just move to okay I have it seems like a nice opportunity for a fresh start yeah so keeping the old format sort of doesn't really look like a fresh start yeah and I also think like just I know that this is like a one-pager and I know people sometimes like that yeah but it doesn't have a lot of like it doesn't come off as a community document like war like the version that I read from Vicky just feels like more welcoming yeah and in plain language and like you know I know it's longer but I think like I had a preference I preferred that one it just seemed more meaningful than like this just seemed really like rigid yeah I also think what's important is we're revising them for a reason there have been problems in this ward for a reason there's been a history in this word that needs to change yeah and I think that starts and that's why I'm participating in these meetings because if we want to encourage an environment that is inclusive that values diversity is inclusive and people have a sense of belonging it's critical that we reflect that in this document otherwise we won't nurture that to be to come to fruition so Deb this is where when I was telling you about the note taking if you could could summarize this conversation yeah we can have minutes yeah so that when we go to the full community we can have a conversation we can preface and say hey this is the thought behind this change and so like what both people have said um like if you could summarize that yeah yeah and then share can you share it with before we put the minutes on the website we'll send it out to this group and everyone can give you feedback on here make sure that those sure sentiments and feelings are clear and I can put the rest you don't need to yeah sure so I the feeling that I get Hank are you on board with moving to the Cito version sure okay um and I feel like everybody's read Vicki's edits right I skimmed through them I have to you guys take a moment to to read it or Vicki do you talk about it what I'm happy to talk about it please that'd be let me yeah throw out one thing yeah I agree with what you're saying because the bylaws I agree with both of what you're saying because the bylaws generally have more meat in them than a one-page little you know front and back you know not to say that we need to be wordy but but they generally have more and and yet with the Cito version I feel like they're a little bit too wordy so that's where I kind of come down a little bit you know I feel like they could be tightened up a bit um you know that's that's one thing so I would I have no problem starting with Cito and then I would edit I like what you've added but then I would tighten them up right so so um hold on I'm sorry one what it where you're raising your hand I'm just going to say if it's helpful for you all I can put any comments or that would be great suggestion mode and so you can see the changes live that sounds great it'll just be suggestions so you're going to see the original if you guys fine me doing that yeah yeah that sounds great so just let me know if you're going through any parts of it so one of the things I was thinking about in my mind is that where there have been issues in the community have been around matters of diversity and equity and we want to promote an environment that is inclusive and where people feel like they're a part of it I assume we're on that page 100 percent therefore at the beginning I thought it was important to add those language even though this is city dot language from the city web page but that we included there because what we do later simply adding a non-discrimination clause does not do justice and at the bottom mind you does not do justice to this part of the mission because it tells people what not to do and it's kind of negative connotations with what DEIB is about I think it's important to frame it in a way that a lot promotes an atmosphere that shows people what we're what we are and what we're going to continue to move towards yeah so that was one thought and also just changing that we're established okay they're established now more active right um they're established and they're up and running um so that was my thought there I changed the order I understand the first uh one was to operate through democratic principles and procedures but um I think before we even get there we there's work that we individually have to do and by changing the the the um excuse me the changing the order really holds people subconsciously maybe consciously you know uh individually accountable for their part two so um recognize diversity as both the strength and an opportunity cultivate involvement of these are the same right or did I change them from there you know um so I just changed the order um and some of the language so the one acknowledged the barriers to accessing decision making I put that there because I think there has to be something in here honoring and we can change the language um it was a placeholder um where there is voting it's often not an equitable experience for people of marginalized needs and identities and I think it's important that we become increasingly aware of that um in this space um and and obviously this is new a new discussion maybe for some of us here but others of us know it very well I agree with that I just think that maybe there could be a little bit more explaining what that means for people who don't understand that well so much it could be um uh acknowledge or be mindful of um you know I was being really covert here but um acknowledge um and or be mindful of the dynamics of privilege and power in a space okay well here's what I was thinking for example acknowledge barriers to accessing decision making such as people who generally don't have the haven't had the privilege to participate or you know something that people can hear easy does that make sense or is that a I think that acknowledged dynamics of privilege and power in a space okay and how would we address that though as an organization as this NBA we can acknowledge them what do we do about them that's what I'm I'm that's what I'm thinking well what example like of it's hegemony right so white male privilege is real sure and if they're dominating a space or taking over a space to ensure that space is made for other voices just an example okay well that's what I mean then acknowledge barriers and and take steps to include that's what I mean you know that that's what I'm saying to say what will we do to address it because otherwise we can all say yeah we acknowledge that well and carry on you know what I mean that's that's what I mean I don't mean to be I hope I'm not being a pain in that no I appreciate that anyway this I just thought it was important for us to put something there in that space that was just a and also in the next one I understand that people will may say be a fun may it's okay that I move on to the next one yeah of course be a fun creative and vital organization that provides value and benefit through the multitude of perspectives shared and again I added diverse there because yeah I might say multitude of perspectives well that's diversity but it could be a multitude of perspectives from one lens of experience so I thought it was important to add that then further down again the language participation by non-members was just messy you're bringing bringing joy to Deb's heart you're bringing joy to Deb's heart it was just messy I was an English teacher oh so I was very I was generous in not marking this up more um yeah maybe you should work it up yeah feel free so I also thought using more active verbs yeah I agree totally was a better approach I mean that's why that language changed it was very wordy I like number two with these conducting meetings and I for those on online who don't know about this like we had Joanne from our steering committee questioned do we have to use Robert rules of order and I thought wow that that would really free us up to really have some change and have conversation so I'm looking that connects into these comments that you have here yeah I think and I think that using I think that using Robert's rules of order perpetuates division because there hasn't been exposure and experience with that manner and there's already a gap in the way in which people communicate based upon many demographics yeah and so I think that further divides people and it's critical that we don't use it that's my recommendation and that maybe should be an agenda item um at our next meeting yeah I think one of the things that I saw at our what I'm going to call it our first NPA because it's a really it's our first real change sure is when I was sitting there listening to people struggling with Robert's rules of order I'm like how can I stop this so that people can communicate and so right when somebody said hey we can actually get rid of this I was like yeah that sounds great so we can actually people talk without having a manual you know so it's true I know I mean I guess at times when there's some really contentious but how would you define that discussion maybe it needs to come into play well you know what at the at the facilitators meeting one of the things she talked they talked about was um I hate them myself well they were talking she said oh well you know there was points where she was talking about conversation and I was you know if someone calls the question and somebody's standing there saying I'm not okay with this I'm not done with this and the whole room votes that were done I asked the facilitator like what do you do and it was she didn't really have an answer and I was like well we're really about community building so we gotta we gotta figure it out but Robert's rules of order is just gonna bulldoze over people and that doesn't you know may move the conversation the meeting along but it may not really resolve that feel right yeah yeah because they don't want to be in violation yeah I think it discourages you know other people who haven't been exposed yeah additionally what the origins of Robert rules yeah I'm sure they came from England you know well and the very fact that we're following Robert for women in this room Robert's rules yeah good point there may be parts of it that we want to keep yeah okay so so we're here on the portion of conducting a meeting interesting I thought this is an interesting topic yeah and then some of the language in this one changed and I'm not sure why Carmen you put full our steering committees full what I thought that I saw that on your there were like two vacancies on ward four on the page you created your page I said full or you put um I put vacancies but there are more than that we haven't yeah determined a number and what's in that in the former bylaws is a maximum of nine so I put on the website vacancies for ward four because I really feel like we're really lacking in four there are vacancies in seven but I wanted to emphasize and so I can add I can add vacancies in ward seven that our current was a nine persons per ward nine okay so I'll change my group right including a use from each right I don't think there's a reason to change those okay so I'll change that on the website and it's a minimum of three and a maximum of nine I don't know I could get kind of unruly I would imagine nine 18 well if they're 18 I would think yeah it starts feeling like maybe it's too like having two separate meetings too many cooks in the kitchen kind of thing well we started with seven we now have nine and it's not balanced by ward yet but um I think we would be fine simply adding people as it made sense I agree uh with a limit of 18 I don't think that we have enough knowledge to change that number at this point so I agree with you Hank yes it's it doesn't seem like it's an issue all right we've we'd love for us to have that issue yeah right oh my gosh there's so many people who want to be on the steering but they used to have they used to you know I'd not been attending the meetings I admit and so I don't know what all happened um that led to all this but they were begging for people to be on the steering committee they were trying to get me to be on it oh yeah and they were only three of them so anyway um I I don't know if this is jumping in just I just looked up there are alternatives for opportunities for and there's a list of them here and there's something called Martha's yeah you know this yeah okay I didn't know um okay and it was invented they were developed by a general in the army here they didn't come from me but anyway so I just I'll send this to everybody if you want it later but back to this um so the terms this was a part of CEDO kind of extrapolating a little bit and I'm not sure I agree with it but steering committee members will serve one-year terms commencing on September 1st and concluding on August 31st of the subsequent year positions filled at other times throughout the year will be subject to renewal during regular scheduled and September NPA meetings this part after serving four consecutive one-year terms a steering committee member must step down from their position in a full for a full year before becoming eligible to seek a reappointment unless otherwise specified in Article 3 regarding the filling of vacancies um I I don't I think that might be problematic not and I'm not thinking of myself because we're here now um but I think about it in for marginalized populations like people are surviving in their own ways living in um a society that doesn't reflect them and that they often don't feel included in and so for folks who um may step forward there I think they're fewer and they can be fewer and far between and and those populations and for that reason um um I think we might be limiting uh we can just get rid of it and we're going to turn once you okay with that is everybody okay with that I am obviously because people can be removed at any time if someone was problematic they can be removed yeah but you don't want to get into the thing where there's it's always the same people always making the decisions right and they just keep getting reelected well it's it's the membership that collects I think Vicky's point is really important well I agree with like the the percentage of people that are not white in the state yeah if it'd be like oh you're getting kicked off you're the only person that yeah and then if that's that we have more diversity and that that's not ish but let's just like not get rid of people just because some random well I yeah but another thought is too thinking about it in that time as we are a changing body hopefully I've watched the demographic face of Burlington change my entire life and I'm so grateful for the changes because when I was at Shipley elementary school oh my gosh um did you attend that as a kid yes my family were the only black children in the school with the exception of two other children in the entire school hard and by the time I got there I think one of my brothers was already out of there maybe two of so it was just three of us um and so I also think of it in terms of as we do change you know my hope is that there will be more people stepping up to be involved and I guess it can always be revisited at that time yeah true let's get rid of it um you good with the Deb you good with the Hank yeah so I just want to point out we're getting on to getting close to six o'clock yes is everybody open to going past six o'clock to try to further this conversation is anybody a little bit past sure how about six fifteen give us those I am we have another meeting tonight yeah you do well it's at 6 30 right so are you are you okay with going to 6 15 or do you want more of a gap between the two yeah I need to leave about 10 after for a previous yeah I don't really want it so you want to end at six I think we just talked about starting meetings on time and ending them okay so you want a rough start so let's face but you can also yeah but you can also ask if people are okay with extending and if you aren't okay with extending that's okay I'm just asking the question so if you're not okay with extending that's okay no problem okay I feel like I have a better sense okay okay next meeting will surely be able to start on time okay I think like today we laid some foundation do we want to make a mark like make a note of where we ended well it's it that's all the changes I made and again if people are going to be looking at this if we all focus on this one compare it to the other one and then come back yeah yeah then we'll have something concrete and also I do want to keep all of the stuff CEDO put at the bottom I don't care about the conflict of interest because I don't know how you don't have conflict of interest when you live in a community but as far as the miscellaneous stuff yeah I like it all so what do you like it all you said or you don't like it there's there's two things that I think we need to add to really address what the city council's directives related to specifically what happened in our ward which is we need a sexual harassment policy in our bylaws and we need a grievance process so that people are not left so those are not what city hall said for us to do we don't need a sexual harassment policy I don't think that's what they city has yeah no it's not that I have it right here what do you mean I I think for me for me Vicki what occurred around transgender extends into sexual harassment and I think it is part of what happened so we can we can we can we can talk about it more next time um and then the other thing is having a clear grievance process so if you are experiencing something that you have somebody to turn to that you can go to with confidence that they will support you um and addressing it so so let's let's just table table this conversation until next time and and we can take out from there so do we want to choose a date well I just want to follow up so the fourth things the city said you have to have okay it's non-discrimination yep right election and removal of officers that's both in here open meeting law that's already in here yep and conflict of interest that's already in here those are the four components they said have to be included okay okay so do we want to go do we want to go above and beyond sure in a way that to protect people I mean why wouldn't you want to go it's not I mean yeah I I mean it that I don't see any problem at all with adding that in in fact I think it would be wise to so let's table it because we agreed that we're gonna end on time that we're not going to extend so that's okay so let's table that it's totally cool and we'll just take it up at our next meeting is that good for everybody or do we want to extend for five more minutes have a conversation Vicki any thoughts I'm happy to table up till next meeting I'm happy to do whatever okay okay good um you're good Hank no don't mean to ignore you he's like I'm leaving yeah okay so we'll just we'll just have a little more conversation about that okay and um yeah and so can we can we're concluding today's meeting that we're good are you good all in favor all right okay