Welcome to Breeders Syndicate, the only cannabis show breaking down the myths and history in cannabis. I'm Matthew, seed maker for over a decade and a half and this is my journey into finding my truth in this wild world of cannabis. I invite you to join me and the Canaluminati by strapping into the passenger seat, but be warned it's not always pretty. With the invasion of corporate culture into cannabis it's getting even more muddy, which is why I've made it my mission to have a permanent record before all the history is lost and buried under a pile of cookies. We're the traditional market. The syndicate is a collection of seed makers that want to push back against all the smoking mirrors. In doing so we will continue to ruffle the feathers of those who oppose and my personal mission has become much bigger than myself. Welcome to the cannabis underground. This is the Revolution. Welcome Breeders Syndicate. I'm Matthew and I'm here today with Little Hill Cultivators. Today we're going to be talking about not just the legal scene but some of his past in the cannabis world like his whole adventure. So I'm real stoked to talk to him today. He's been around a long time and welcome dude, pleasure to meet you. Thank you. How long have you been growing and how did this whole adventure get started? Let's start there. I think 02 is when I popped my first seeds. Sweet tooth number three. I was in college and couldn't afford to smoke weed as much as I wanted. Yes. Happened upon Overgrow.com and kind of saw the blueprint there. So you know a lot of people were real sketched out early on when they found Overgrow like worried like should I pose? Should I not? Did you have any of those concerns at all? Yeah it felt a little weird but I didn't like register. I didn't pose for a long time and then eventually I just had some burning questions I needed to ask and I got them answered so it was super helpful. It's a very helpful tool for starting. Yeah I think that's kind of how we all got our little like people just kind of slowly step into the forums when they first get there. It's like do I really want to engage? Some of these people are kind of brutal. Yeah yeah just just who's looking at this? It's like 02 so like the internet's still kind of new. Yeah you know. I love looking at the pictures that's that's one of the things that really drew me there. What kind of strains were popular at the time when you were hitting Overgrow? The two that I remember the most are Sweettooth number three from Breeder Steve and and Cinderella 99 from Brothers Grimm. Those were those were very popular and everybody was raving about them. Yeah definitely at the tops of Spice of Life and Brothers Grimm was very early too. Yeah and looking back on it all that Spice of Life stuff was great. Big yielding frosty plants, great smells, easy to grow. He had some good stuff there. Yeah he really did and then later on with legends too. Did you ever get me to try to do that stuff? I think I did grow LUI. Yeah I'm pretty sure I did grow that one. I mean it's very similar to Sweettooth. Yeah just a big center cola mold prone. Big yielding frosty fruity smelling. Yeah yeah yeah I actually, let's get me in the head 20 years, somebody showed me some Northern Lights 5 that you guys did. Yeah yeah. He flowered some out and the smells I was getting off that Northern Lights was very reminiscent of Sweettooth. Oh wow. I've been smelling those for a long time. That's cool dude, that's cool. So let's whip it back around to how long have you been kind of working inside the legal system of candidates? The legal part, let's see, California passed prop 64 in the end of 16. I voted no on it as most people did up here. Yeah yeah. So then 17 the county came through with structure to become legal within the county to become registered. So I did that and that kept the county off my back which was the biggest fear. Sure. At the time and then in 18 the state licensing, state licensing thing came online. So January 18 I submitted my application. Yeah and sort of bit the bullet and went for it. And what have you been growing recently during that time? Do you only have, with California's medical scene, I know in a lot of other places you can only grow what they allow you to grow inside their thing. Does it work like that? Well I transitioned, well the license the county allowed me for 10,000 square feet of flowering canopy. Yeah. Which was maybe a slight reduction of what I had been doing previously. And I had to change things around. I had a big flat up on a hill. I basically abandoned and came down to the valley floor. One because I felt more comfortable kind of being out in the open down there. And then two it was just for regulations and stuff that was going to be easier to operate. Plus I have power down there and I did not have power up on the hillside. Yeah. So it just made a lot of things easier. And I kind of abandoned outdoor growing and converted everything into greenhouses to light depth all my square footage. Yeah. I had always felt like light depth was the future. Yeah, it makes sense. Pulling off two crops, getting that first crop out the door and kind of like, you know, getting some revenue coming in instead of just hemorrhaging money until God knows when you might actually get paid. Yeah. The outdoor I usually just sat on for a few months anyways after the season and having a big depth would allow you to do that and not need to make a fire sale. What's your thoughts on like, it's kind of random and tangent, but auto flowering versus light depth. Like as far as like being able to run those multiple cycles is one more advantage than the other, you think? I mean, you're going to be you can grow a wider range of what's popular with light depth. Yeah. With auto flower. I mean, I know they've come a long way. With the outdoor license, you used to not be able to pull tarp on an outdoor license, but now you can. Wow. Yeah. But I'm in the mountains. I have some elevation. It would be tough to pull off to, I can't start very early outdoors and I can't go very late outdoors. So trying to pull off two crops outdoors without tarp like maybe an auto flower crop in the spring summer and then replant with something full term. That would be tough for me to squeeze in. Well, this all goes back to probably what we're going to talk about in a little bit is market demand too. Because it's driving the market. If an auto flower might actually work, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will work in the market. Right. And the market's competitive, super competitive and growing from seed, you're going to have some variation and figuring out which seed is good stuff to run and then getting a ton of it because you're going to run high numbers. Yeah. It's just that was when the price was higher and things were not competitive, had I had an outdoor license, I definitely would have schemed it up because then you can plant your autos and then in between your autos, you can plant your full term stuff and get those in veg time early before you actually chop. So yeah, what were we talking about? Let's move into how you got started like on the forums, maybe it's on the bog stuff. Okay. So on overgrow, when I found it, Bog was posting like great pictures of the plants he was growing and he would post the he had these like long running threads of keep it simple, stupid, how to how to start growing and his methods were really simple and he would chime in every now and then if you had a question and that's I basically just copied his formula on my first grow and it worked well and I was growing, I grew, I bought some sweet tooth number three seeds from Gypsy but I forget what the seeds direct or something like that and it did great. It grew great weed too and his formula was so simple. It was just a rich soil mix, a blood meal, bone meal, lime, green sand, kelp, worm castings and then just using a pure blend original ferments and man, I grew great weed. It was outstanding and like knowing what I know now, I veered away from it over time and experimented with other stuff and salts and eventually came back to rich soil mix, compost teas. I don't do ferments but I certainly will be experimenting with that in the future because you can make them really cheap on site and that's save some money but like feeding the microbes, having a rich soil and feeding the microbes just to me just grows stellar pot every time even if you screw it up. It's tough to beat, it's tough to beat and it's scale I don't like going to the store and spending tons of money on nutrients, organic or otherwise. So I feel like if I can just mix it into my soil in the spring after a soil test and add water, that's ideal. I came in during a much different time as far as nutrients and the hydro store boom and all that stuff. So when I came in, I had to go through the time of understanding that it was like a used car lot and the guys that work in the hydro store aren't really growers. I had to go through that bump and like trying to play magic magician with all the different nutrient bottles because I was pretty sure one was going to finally make it more gank than the others. So it's cool to hear someone that started with something super simple and didn't have to go through that crap. Yeah that was the wisdom in Boggs thread on his how to and I mean he started way before all that and like I kind of did too. There weren't a whole lot of options in O2 like there are now or like there were five years later. Yeah and I know it's something I commonly see with people like something's wrong in their growth so they think it's their nutrient line and it's like oh it's not your nutrient line. Like there's some other variable.  Same company making it for different companies. Yeah pick one and dial it in and dial it in for the strain. It's not your nutrients. Whatever's wrong in your thing it's not the nutrients. The nutrients are probably fine just figure it out. Yeah exactly. And you know I've been watching your Instagram live feeds and I highly recommend other people like follow it's at little underscore hill underscore cultivators. Yes. On Instagram and it's been some of the more fascinating content. I've seen it a long time. I watch it every time you upload something and you know the other day you were talking about specifically the legal market and not knowing exactly where your flowers go or where direct people to get them or what name they'll be under. I thought it was totally fascinating. Yeah. So the way the legal market set up is everything a cultivator cell has to move through distribution sort of like same as alcohol in California. Sort of sort of sort of like alcohol. There's some exceptions. I can't sell direct to consumer or direct to retail. I have to move it through a distributor who then sells it to another distributor or a brand that's a distributor or has a license with a distributor and they sell it to retail. Yeah. And so I don't most of the time I don't know where my flower ends up. I don't know who ends up buying it. I don't know what brand it's in. I don't know what stores it's in and that disconnect. And a lot of the time the distributor I move it through doesn't know either. Yeah. And so like I'm kind of used to that since back in the day you didn't really ask. Yeah. Now it's like okay like people are hitting me up like trying to find my flower or they like my feed and they want to you know support me or you know I actually grow good weed and yeah. And I like I've gotten also at the same time I've gotten great feedback from the one store up here in NorCal that actually attaches the farmer's name to the to the produce they buy. Organic can and Mendo can in Santa Rosa in Hopland. They are retail but they also have distribution for themselves. Yeah. So they're able to buy wholesale they package it but they keep the farm name and logo with the product. So when you're looking on their menu you see all the farm names next to the strain. That's amazing. And that's that's super cool.  So just off of those three pounds I sell them a year I'll I'll get one or two people hit me up saying hey man this was great. I bet you know and and and they appreciate it and I'm I'm stoked to hear that and I think they're stoked to know that they're actually talking to me the grower and it's not some like you know social media sure you know person running running the social media. Yeah that happens a lot too. That happens a lot too. Yeah yeah I mean it's my operation is just me I mean I have help but like it's it's just me there's there's no team in the sense that like it's my business and and I mean I certainly have help on the farm absolutely and and I couldn't do it without them but like there's no administrative administrative office it's it's my living room table you know exactly yeah yeah that's wild to me man like just well we did an episode recently we called the name game just about like trying to explain to end-level consumers that maybe aren't as nerdy about strains and don't grow and aren't as downed into growing try to find a way to reach across to them to for them to understand like look if you want to know exactly what you're smoking you use its medicine you have to be a lot more aware of what farms making it you need consistency you need you know reliability and all of that just all of that was so missing in what's going on right now and I don't know how they can rationalize this as a medical system when there's nothing medical about not being able to give repeatable reliable results. Yeah absolutely there's you can change the strain name anytime you want at any at any stage through the through the cycle you can a brand can be buying a strain and run out and buy either if they can't source the same strain they'll if it was a good seller they'll just throw something else in that bag under that name oh yeah I watched it happen that's a brand like I don't know how that's good business you know who knows man and even if they do find the same strain it's probably from a different grower and so then now there's varying qualities and and and is it actually the same strain did they think it's the same strain is one you know grown inland is one grown coastal is one grown organic is one grown differently you don't know and they say like you know in the farm to table type type atmosphere like know your grower like yeah know where your food comes from well know where your weed comes from exactly um that's I mean I'm a farmer right so I'm super biased but like to me that's a no brainer do I know where all my food comes from no but like I know where my meat comes from I know where my eggs come from and and I like that and I and I like the fact that I'm supporting my neighbors with that as opposed to you know some asshole in Missouri or somewhere you know with a billion dollars in a bunch of different companies that doesn't really give a shit besides looking at the the the profit report you know yeah I I had this experience of the day when we bought some lily og and this is when I was doing my little experiment to see like if if dispensaries and bakers folks you know bakers sucks dude like this is the worst place in California for weed ever and there's no connoisseur quality anything but I wanted to see what dispensaries had to offer in my um my lady liked the lily og we got it was an og it was a good og I don't know if it was lily but it was a good og so two days later called the same place delivered the same stuff again get it it's a a berry like a berry um gorilla glue this time but it's labeled lily og and so of course I hit him up I'm like bro this is not even close to the same thing they're like yeah different phenotypes bro sorry you know like the phenotype speaks to me bro it's it's such horseshit yeah it's horrible it didn't make any sense yeah they I mean that's funny because node labs had a picture of their og kush on their instagram and the picture is is is gorilla glue like yeah everybody knows it and I chimed in a bunch other people I know chimed in like dude that's gorilla glue like it's it's obvious that's not an og and yeah what do they know like it's just some person around their social media they don't know anything funny as you mentioned weed shitty in bakersfield um for a while up here this was years and years ago when you had a bag of uh not so great uh og kush um the joke was to call it bakersfield og that's fucking great or san fernando valley or whatever it was like oh this looks like bakersfield og exactly this is a it's a weird spot like people not from california don't quite understand how lame bakersfield is but yeah it's a very special special little hole yeah yeah so let's talk about some strains now that we're talking about strain names I'm trying to keep them uh stable let's talk about high and lonesome's prudleness I know this is one of your your classic favorites yeah it's it's my all-time favorite smoke um back in like the 2010s and before maybe the eights the seven six I was mainly just growing uh purple urkel and grape ape um because that's what was popular and I really liked the flavor of it the high was not as good but like that's what people wanted especially down in the bay area where I'm from yeah and uh like I I you know it's kind of a bitch to grow it's really slow veg um I love the smell of it you know it's nice and dense leafy but dense and I got a hold of the poodle nuts from from 40 ounce we had we had traded some cuts because we were both down in the bay area yeah and uh and he's just selected the poodle right he selected it it was a urkel phenotype he ended up running with like for production another phenotype that was more that was a taller plant it probably was you know more kim d related I think it might have still had some color but the poodle nuts was an urkel phenotype for sure yeah squad very purple purpled up the same way say branching leaves yeah the branching the larphiness in the middle the nudge structure was different and it just had it had that urkel smell with the fuel which back then I just said it was like urkel with some spiciness to it because gas wasn't really a term people threw around yeah but it was purple gas it was the first encounter with purple gas I ever had and I mean it it took over right away like as soon as I started growing that over a great vape it vetched a little faster um it had a much prettier nudge the nudge you know very swollen calyxes yes um still leafy still squat but not as squat and you can get it stretched out a little bit more if you tried yeah so anyways yeah I want to I want a cannabis cup up and humble it with some indoor poodle nuts and and like one in a landslide and you know there was there was some good weed up there but uh I mean it just had everything it was just prettier than anything like off right off the bat it was just prettier than just any green weed up there so I bet that helped but it was super tasty and uh and uh people people took notice we we smoked so much weed that day you couldn't tell high at all yeah I know what you mean but even though that I think I'm pretty sure it was a uh that was one of the categories you just you're you're smoking you're taking like two puffs off of you know four 40 joints yeah and uh you just you can't tell high it's it's all flavor bag of peel smell all that stuff yeah that's how it gets by the end of our our party sessions too wherever I mean when there's 60 jars up there and it's over three days it's like at some point you stop evaluating high because you're so fucked up the whole time yeah you just can't anymore and I mean if you smoke the right thing it can cut through but sure it's it's really hard that is few and far between on something that'll cut through over a day long sash you know yeah wow yeah um so we have another one old Betsy uh this is a uh old school one out of San Diego yeah um so bud budgular up and humble sourced it from Del Mar um grew at indoors and it was it was novel you know really smelly um unique structure sort of branchy purple stems um then he gave it he gave it to CSI who grew it outdoors one year and the next year it was half his garden yeah and then so so CSI passed it out to a few people including me he passed it to a few people before I had an outdoor spot and I saw it catch on yeah um quickly uh and so I think I ran 10 beds of it on my first outdoor year in uh in a I think this was 11 and uh yeah 10 beds did great it was half my garden the next year that's a good sign dude and it's just such a unique strain you could take three cuttings off it take the tops like October 7th and then give it two more weeks and then take like they're almost the rest of it yeah but then wait for all although there wasn't really larch it was just small buds they were still dense though on the inside of the plant and then let those go as long as you can and they would purple up and then take those and and they'd be smaller but if you mixed it into your other pounds it gave your pounds some color yeah and uh I mean back then people didn't really grade too much um and it kept its smell you know by next April you it still smelled great in the bag when you were selling and and and that's that's unique a lot of especially a lot of the hype the more hype stuff um that's for sure it's just it's not bred to do that or it's not selected to do that no not at all to sell now yeah yeah Betsy's slowly making its way through uh more current circles and it's fun to watch like growers from a different generation grow her and like experience her and be like oh my god where what is this you know yeah like what we have it's a blast from the past it's probably got a lot of skunk genetics it's it's it's almost definitely dutch origins right yeah I would think so yeah so I mean it's it's it's it's it was a winner and it I mean it took over people's gardens that's that's how good it was like almost almost like as long as you could sell it and I sold it under mango kush yeah because his name sucks shitty name yeah it is it is like of course it's endearing to people who know it like of course yeah I think one of the reasons he never caught on was because of its name like it's it's sister to the bull rider which totally caught on I mean you have great with bull rider genetics like uh using a fake bull rider to put on his clothing store now so it still has some name value but Betsy just never caught on so yeah yeah yeah and and uh but it it definitely caught on in gardens up here yeah for sure up here Trinity Humboldt butte and it's kind of funny if you if you meet somebody who knows Betsy like it's not that hard to trace back to who we know in common oh I bet this happened to me last year I'm like oh you know Betsy let's figure out who our common friend is because you know the circles are kind of tight yeah I've tried explaining that to people too like a lot of how how clone circles work and how they've always worked and when you see people that aren't necessarily connected to anyone pop up with the clone it's usually either ill-gotten or fake just because of how tight those circles were and how well everybody knew each other and how yeah how close people worked their words stuck to it so you knew that if it was making outside the circle either someone probably stole it or it probably wasn't it you know if it's from a random outside the circle yeah I mean in the circle people share pretty freely sure um I've never hoarded genetics and if somebody wanted it I'd do my best to get it to them because it's a it'd be a benefit you know to them yeah big time I think that surprises people the most is when they come from outside to inside like one of the clone circles that they they realize how open it is once they get inside like one of these really like trading that he's really been caring and say oh you want that cool here you know but yeah it's they assume it's a matter of knowing somebody yeah like knowing you're all being trusted yeah trust trusting somebody that okay I know I know you I know you're not a cop and yep or or or a shithead and and uh like I don't know like I don't really know anybody that hoards clones for the most part um the people that do I know right away like they're just on some other shit and they think I don't know I don't know why they think that their clone is so special that oh I don't want this clone to get blown out it's like dude like you're growing what a couple hundred pounds of it maybe like that's it's gone like there's gonna experience it nobody's gonna hear of it or know it or anything and there's no way the market's gonna get oversaturated now occasionally that can happen like look with like blue dream or trainwreck or something but like I mean that that's few and far between it is you know so yeah that's a good point dude yeah just you're you're gonna be better off openly sharing because then people openly share with you and and you're gonna have access to more stuff and you'll benefit greatly and at the same time you'll probably be able to get those genetics back if you lose them it's a good point and you know the best advice I was given in cannabis was uh our buddy CSI told me never tie yourself to one clone never get emotionally involved with one clone because it leaves you stuck in in a corner and once that's out you're done you have no moves that's it and it was amazing advice because not just from all the other angles but like now you're emotionally tied to one thing and you sit there obsessing over it what's the point of that you know when there's so much stuff there yeah I mean it's also like things are so trendy too that if you're not open-minded enough to what's next or what's better and you don't think anything's better than this stuff you have from 2005 like yeah right you're getting passed you're getting passed up you know then and and and either like the chances of what you having being that great are not very good no no there's none yeah like a few few few strains make a comeback like sour diesel or ogee kush or yeah um I'm trying to bring the poodle nuts back I've been trying for a minute oh we will get her back yeah I've been looking I've gotten some mislabeled cuts I even got one I don't know if it was the real one or not and I lost it due to my own cloning mistakes yeah I was floundered out and I'm like oh shit this is rainbow belt fuck so like I made that one and then I got it back and I'm like oh this isn't even poodle nuts this is London pound cake well you know I even bred with it and I'm like shit now I got this whole breeding project going on and I've got all this London pound cake s1 and crossed Kim D and how did London pound cake express for you what's your smell like it's funny it's kind of fragrant and veg and it's kind of squat so I didn't notice right away and then and then it kind of just started smelling more like gelato to me and it didn't have that urkel and fuel yeah it threw me it took a while for me to kind of like realize that it wasn't the real one and by then everything's pollinated and yeah of course it's good weed it's like it's it's not bad at all yeah in fact I wish I hadn't lost it but I basically just gave it up because I was pissed and didn't keep a mother yeah you know but now I was realizing like oh man that's it's pretty good weed that's funny dude yeah that's the other thing about poodle nuts that I'll never forget and urkel has a similar trait where in veg when you take cuts it smells very skunky in the room yeah the poodle nuts was like seriously I could be in my living room taking cuts and like check in the bedroom be like give a stump walk in people say talk about weed being skunky in veg that plant I don't think there's anything more skunky than poodle nuts in veg yeah I I agree another plant that used to really smell besides like urkel was the genius cut oh I never got to grow her yeah it was it was kind of a weak finicky plant and and and lateral branching and cool unique uh lug structure and good skunky smell to it um great high um but it was also very skunky in veg interesting yeah yeah CSI has mentioned that one a few times to me over the years and I've never I've never I wish I had made some seed with it honestly I don't have any more Apollo 11 seeds I grew Apollo 11 a few years a few times and it was good weed yeah I wish I wish I had more of that um that's part of my seed stash that got lost I grew a lot of 13 I never never grew much 11 but 13 I grew a ton of it probably wasn't too different it yeah I don't I don't think so this was all a lot of great the expressions on big jack hair type buds oh yeah oh yeah no I wasn't grapey at all for me though the Apollo 11 was just skunk was it yeah yeah very weak stems not a great commercial plant but a pretty plant yeah kind of like not a huge stretcher but still had like very narrow leaves mm-hmm yeah that makes sense plant cool plant so poodle nuts uh yeah I have some I had some old s ones from a from a from a from a run from 2010 that I've kept in a bag in the fridge and I got three to pot this year so I have I have three s ones growing outdoors right now they all look very similar the the tallest one of the bunch is is very close to the original smell I think yeah but like the leaves are all green which is unusual where the other two the leaves are starting to purple because you know it's fall it's almost October and uh the temps are the temps are cooling off one of them doesn't really smell at all or or or nothing close to what what I'm looking for and then one of them is like very urkel kind of down but it doesn't have the spiciness to it or the gas to it yeah so I mean that's that's what I got out of those I have clones of all of them I'm gonna I'm definitely keeping them I I my plan next year is to run I have a bunch of hybrids of it the the reason I wanted it back was to make a sour diesel hybrid with it yeah because I had done that accidentally back in the day and the one seed I got out of a sour diesel was just a diesel tall diesel structured plant with purple flowers and that poodle nuts smell and and a great potent high I'm thinking the sour diesel helped the high bit yeah and I want that plant back and it we only grew out one but you know my buddy agreed that it was a good plant damn yeah so I want to make that cross again it just crosses good to to uh to cushes to og I grew some uh triangle to poodle nuts from zoe zochi last year very impressed very impressed with how well the smell carried over yeah the color didn't carry over the structure didn't really carry over but the smell those turps were there in that in that bud which was really cool yeah me and me and high and lonesome crossed it to the the blue bog stuff we use which is like a really short squat blueberry but and it made for this beautiful blueberry version of of the poodle nuts just stuck to that structure and just super blueberry berry turps on top of all that skunky gray it was beautiful oh nice nice well I have some of those seeds they're gonna get popped oh that's right yeah and uh I gave you the last of uh high and lonesomes I think what what it was is poodle nuts crossed to poodle nuts or poodle nuts cross it like a wild I think that's what it was was it it was poodle nuts to like a a brother yeah and then back across the poodle nuts yeah yeah yeah so high and lonesome made those he made those a long time ago so I hope the pop they're old maybe never knew he made those I would have bought some for sure yeah I yeah I think he only passed them to me so they're with you yeah those are getting popped much here too and then there's the f5s of dog walks that still exist here those don't work we have those and then did high and lonesome make those yeah yeah okay yeah and that was just taking not the poodle nuts but other lineage just I'd have to ask him but I think he was used poodle nuts in it oh okay but I have to ask him maybe that might just be uh uh open pollination maybe I don't know yeah okay yeah well I'm popping a bunch of crosses I got it crossed to kim 91 from zochi I got it crossed to north fire cookies for that that old sog raves about oh yeah yeah um what else do I have it crossed to I feel like I'm missing a couple now yeah shout out old sog shout out zochi rest in peace yeah totally yeah that was a bummer he was he was doing cool things at his reading company it's too bad he had to go just kind of shock him yeah yeah totally all right so you you've done a lot of grows of modern stuff too obviously you're good friends of csi can you talk some about your experiences with the skittles and sherbet stuff so I know that's gonna interest a lot of people okay um yeah I I'm growing out now his uh skittles to sherbert cross um I think I've got 20 something females going I had one plant completely herm out but I killed it before before it uh uh blue pollen and uh it was it was very hermy very surprising but boy hermy up the wazoo on that one uh it was almost more male flowers than female wow I'm glad I caught it anyways um yeah so there's 20 something of them I would all but two smell like sherbert um or maybe all but three smell like sherbert and then two of them are I would say the bud structure of looks very skittles yeah um but the smell is sherbert um various heights uh one of the shorter ones is definitely a skittles phenotype and then one of the like a medium height ones is a skittles phenotype smell wise anyways um and then one of them is probably the most pungent of the bunch and it's like a sherbert strawberry smell and so I of course I didn't have cuts to that one so I went I went back I think it was last week and and we took uh we took cuts off the bottom and uh those those cuts off the bottom they have little flowers on them but they will revert fairly quickly when after you root them yeah I've I've done that a bunch off see I do a lot of that I actually sometimes prefer it yeah because then I mean that allows you to wait for one and then like and not end up with this big vaging plant but also like um you can if if you don't want to take cuts off everything you can just wait for the smells you want to yeah I took cuts of everything and and and pretty quick here some of them are going to get uh cold but um yeah you get a lot of did you see any skittlesy type stuff as far as turps go yeah off two of them have a have a have skittles smell okay so that's good I mean for two out of out of 18 20 something yeah yeah so just so people know that's kind of a range to expect and even even in like skittles s ones how dominant the actual really really desirable turps is in a lot of those things yeah I've noticed a lot of skittle crosses give off like a strawberry scent yeah which isn't bad no but it's not skittles and to me skittles is just one of the best smells in cannabis period yeah and it's like an extreme it's like an extreme grapefruit to me like if you yes grapefruit rinds is what I get from it but also if you think like green skittles sometimes that it's that too yeah it could be that definitely I definitely like if I think of the old sweet pink grapefruit clone now it's like that the extracts of that is what the skittles oh I wish I had that cut yeah right like I grew it once a long time ago yeah um again a cool plant uh probably northern lights um really great smell to it funky structure um I wish I still had that that just was that it had that real just like skunky funk that that weed used to have and and you don't see that at all really anymore it's no you don't you know so I think that's that's part of why especially with prices being so low um I feel like there is room to experiment a little bit or or also it's more important to experiment and and and do some fino hunts even though space is at a premium just because like you can't get stuck growing all this same garbage that no people think they want if you don't show them something else they're not going to know they like it more exactly you know and and and so it's that chicken or the egg thing like why is everybody buying all this fucking purple gas garbage that that the high is not that great and the flavor is just meh and and it's like well that's all we're growing right so yeah we're letting them demand the market show them show them what good weed is and and hopefully you can find some that'll still test high enough to actually get bought in the first place yeah that's that's kind of like another barrier as a lot of this old stuff won't test high but then again a lot of this old stuff hasn't been tested with 2023 parameters which everything's over 20% now you know bro all my blueberry stuff like all that blueberry work I've done is all testing like 26 28 have you ever heard a blueberry test at 26 or 28 bro in your life no the yeah blueberry is not super potent I mean that's just what I like all my blueberry hybrids even pure blueberry is testing at like 28 25 which wow maybe maybe the blue bonnet maybe lone star work it's special which I think you did but like if that even still like being able to take blueberry that high even in one move in an out cross go is not really feasible so I think there's a lot of these old lines if they were tested under today's parameters might actually like really shock the shit out of people where it does that right not because they're more potent now but because everything tests higher now and yeah labs have to put out good results or they don't get business and exactly they don't ever keep business from people if they're not small numbers so dumb to be buying based off THC percentage I know people think they're getting a better value but the reality is they're just getting shitty weed yeah I mean that's that is what it is and and you know it goes back to the education part how do you get how do you get the end user who are not growers to want to be interested enough to learn about like maybe sativa indica and hybrid are not the best descriptions of the high you know yeah right how do you like how do you explain that like THC percentages are is like a seven 1970s 1980s thing that we've moved on from there like yeah I don't know how I don't know I think I think you just do the old free sample like try try this first yeah bro you're right you're right that it sounds it sounds so obvious but yeah and when you can do things like tastings or have events where you can like pass a joint to somebody like that that's how you get that's how you spread it that's how you like help especially the younger generation realize that you know what they think is that great is not that great you know and there's so much else out there and there's there's such better highs out there and and yeah I mean so people maybe don't realize like in 2000 say five to 2010 the only things testing over 20% were like oh gee and chem dog yep but like old sog super silver haze will get you absolutely ripped and it will cut through any other thing anything else you're smoking you'll get high all over again and that's like 19 100% and so I mean even things like poodle nuts which aren't never tested super high would test like 18 19 I think I had it as high as 23 um which for that for that time period was really good huge yeah um I mean I don't know what it would be now it would probably be you could probably hit over 30 with it 30 or one yeah so I think you could yeah just buying off of like the numbers are bullshit anyways so what are you really buying like people used to buy weed based off smell because that was the best determining factor of the quality of the weed yeah you know the flavor it's what gets the mouth watering you know it's you know so I just had a collective right me on ig the other day and asked me so we have one of your strengths here but we we're about to put it on the menu um what do I put it under indicates it's either a hybrid and I had I actually sat there all stone and I was like let me have this discussion with you kid you know like indica sativa knife so like the retail when when when clubs dispensaries started opening they latched on because that was the general consensus is that these narrow leaves are sativa and it's like a up euphoric busy speedy high and the indicas were these broadleafs and their couch lock and then there's hybrids and they just latched on to that because they wanted to sell the consumer a feeling yeah right so you need to tell them something so like what do you want to do you want like a daytime thing you're trying to chill out at night and they wanted to sell they just want to sell them yeah you know something and they just latched onto it like it's a fact and it's not a fact at all and and it's not even the taxonomy of the plant has nothing to do with the chemicals in it no and even then I don't even think you can tell chemically the difference between sativa and indica I doubt it right you can't tell by terpenes no I mean they could both have terpenaline yeah I was gonna say even like we like to trolley has terpenaline so that kind of erases that one right right so I mean you know if you show these people a real sativa or a real narrow leaf drug cultivar they would probably thumb their noses oh for sure that's you know that's another discussion about like the newer kids on ig that are like buying land races and stuff that you know like they're gonna buy some indian land races and blah blah blah and they have no clue that they don't even want to grow like this jungly thing you have to flower as a seedling this big you know or it's gonna be 20 feet tall like there's a lot of um I don't know what you even call that right they don't have the patience for it they're not gonna get anything that they're gonna be able to sell to anybody they're gonna get made for very little smoke like spindly harry weed and then they're gonna just decide that that's no good and yeah and go you know go get purple purple gas you know yeah exactly I mean it's like there's no floral structure really there and I don't think that they understand that there's bud that even looks like that without floral structures you know yeah yeah it's yeah it's definitely a different thing and um watching the new generation move in and try to navigate the weird world of cannabis from the start and really really funny to watch because I did it myself I know exactly what they're going through I I made every idiot move you could make yeah they're they're growing up thinking sour diesel and blue dreamer sativas yeah oh yeah for sure yeah I mean sativa I mean blue dream just based on this genetics is 50 50 at best yes yeah at best probably 75% yeah broadleaf afghani yeah yeah so yeah for folks out there call call what you think is an indica a broadleaf cultivar and call what you think is sativa a narrow leaf drug cultivar and and leave the sativa and the uh and the indica stuff for you know the chads trying to sell a feeling I mean you got pens made a distillate with with a sativa or a indica label on them so trying to explain that to people too like why there's no point even picking up a distillate pen that says hybrid indica or sativa like there's no difference in any of that it's all it's all hybrids anyways yeah and and honestly people react different to different terpenes so for some people most people most people something broadleaf is really gonna like be a couch lock yeah or have a more sedative high but other people it's gonna make them get up and clean their house yes you know and it just it just reacts with people differently and that's where your body chemistry and and what's going on with you at that moment is gonna react differently and set and setting and find the same weed all the time once you find something you like you're probably never gonna see it again it kind of sucks you know like I learned this later on in life from because I was never a big psychedelic kid I never really gotten into that stuff but learning about set and setting and psychedelics and and I never understood how people haven't applied that to cannabis because it's just there was set and setting the heroin they're set and setting with all kinds of drugs they're they did some studies where uh people would overdose on the same amount of heroin if they're using it in a place they want to know you're with so like versus their own home when they're comfortable so setting is a major part of everything whether it's cannabis or anything you're concerned you know so um I think that's where this thing's left out quite a bit um yeah so like yeah absolutely like people get paranoia and anxiety sometimes and yeah that's because of where you're at in your headspace or maybe where where you are like maybe you're not comfortable around these people or maybe you have something on your mind that's uh that's wearing on it maybe it's not a good time to to to get loaded but yeah um yeah people overlook that and also like with with increased potency with with the way things are it's like don't smoke the whole joint just yeah I mean take a puff see how you feel and then go back to it you know I had to learn that myself you know like going as a kid I would just puff tough like hard all the time and then as an adult my hormones changed dude like I there's times when my chip box function is like you just take a hit don't like it's the morning it's your first hit just take a hit you do not need to smoke the whole bowl like yeah it's it's certainly something I learned um that I couldn't I was kind of more of a nighttime smoker um anyways when I was a heavy smoker uh unless there was like some social function where we're smoking during the day but I kind of learned especially as I started growing more and more weed and kind of put my ass out there a little bit more before legalization um that it's instead of like relieving all anxiety it started amplifying it yeah and then so I barely even smoked for a few years because I just wasn't enjoying it yeah and then when I would smoke I had no tolerance and I'd get ripped and paranoid and feel uncomfortable for 15 minutes so it wasn't fun but then as time went on I kind of learned um set and setting or I just call it time and place yeah like there's certain activities that I know will be enhanced and better if I smoke out first yeah like before I go on a mountain bike ride or before I clean my house or before um I got a bunch of like monotonous work to do in the greenhouse where it's hot that's a great time because you just put on some music and you zone out and you don't really have to think yeah and you just get to work and it's the same thing like when you're like I used to trail run it was great for that because you don't you're in your head just thinking about other stuff besides how tired you are how far away from the car you are or whatever else is going on and all of a sudden like you realize oh my lungs aren't burning like this is great like I could I could do another mile yeah and so it's for me that's that's where it really works um and I love it like that's and I smoke more now because I know when are the right times that's important I think that's super important and that's that's something I had to learn myself like I know if I'm having a super bad like stressful day that it's probably like a lot of people use it to release stress when they're having a bad day I cannot like it will spin me out and put me in a bad black hole no matter what no matter if I'm like I dab all day like I've just even as we're sitting here I'm dabbing and it doesn't really affect me or make me too paranoid but there's certain times where if I'm in a real bad mood and I dab it's in the mood just like not anywhere good you know I need back rubs please yeah yeah and in in that sense it is a medicine and we're kind of using it medicinally to improve things but also like knowing when not to not that's what I figured out and if I'm a super annoyed over something it's actually good to smoke out because then I just kind of stopped dwelling on it now yeah and and uh you know I just kind of move on you know personality is so opposite bro like that that makes me hyper obsessed when I'm like that oh it's a word yeah so people just gotta figure it out for themselves and it's not for everybody either but for most people that figure it out it it enhances their life greatly yeah it is it is very specific especially for me this whole journey like I've had a love hate relationship at some point with cannabis because it's put me in such bad mental zones but once you figure that out the set and setting part the time and place it's it's it does change a lot and you realize it's not one it's not a cure all and it shouldn't be a cure all it shouldn't fix all of your moods and it's not weird if it doesn't you know yeah totally totally all right so you've been growing a lot of it or is there a specific tks one that you like a lot or have you been growing a bunch um I just have one I got from roots nursery um it's funny when you talk to people on the legal side and if you can establish that they're from the old days like they're so much cooler and there's more passion and they actually know what they're talking about so that these guys were absolutely that um and so we just talked about tons of shit and he grew out I think he only grew out a pack of s ones but he selected a good tks one and it's very much og and I don't know how tk it is on that spectrum where like tks on the earthy side and yep and like sfvs on the on the pine saw side but um it's a little early for to really tell but it's I've seen an indoor um I've seen it grown out indoors and it's just og that's awesome and so yeah I'm I'm stoked to be growing that I'm gonna grow it again next year for sure that's that's my favorite side of tk personally yeah yeah I I was always fond of sfv like any to me but to me like any well-grown tk or any well-grown og is super dank yeah I don't care which one it is I'm gonna enjoy it like a hundred percent right yep it's grown well and that's kind of yeah that's you know that's that's all I really care about and does it check the box and is it grown well if it's grown well it's super dank and people that have never smoked it are just going to be blown away and and I'm growing it I'm growing it again because I stopped growing it just like everybody else for a long time and then you realize it like you know I'm guilty of following the hype too but just because I'm a commercial cultivator I gotta grow what people want even if it's not as good as what else I could grow sure and so I got away from growing og's a lot of people are growing them again now because they're realizing like you know what this this fucking carbon fiber or whatever it's not that fucking great yeah you know and and and so like you know the price is the same either way like I'm growing fucking og I want to grow some good smoke I want to grow something that like maybe you know somebody associates with my name at some point and and and and just realizes that like holy shit like og is still king for a reason you know or one of the king for this season I've been getting asked more from actually honestly not even from seed buyers from breeders and other growers hey did you keep any og cuts bro because nobody kept them nobody fucking kept nobody kept them i couldn't fucking believe og is rare now right well it's real so cuts right right and and and and it's and it's tough to source stuff that nobody has anymore not not just because like it's hard to find the person with it but like somebody's going to bullshit you at some point and just give you a cut so I I think I source the sfv from these same guys they were skeptical as well so they they first they tested it for for hoplite and viroid and and that's good and then now they're they're flowering it out next to the tks1 to see is this really sfv what's going on with it so they're skeptical as well so they're not releasing it till they know what it is where do you source sfv too this is a good conversation like oh I didn't see I didn't even ask them where they got it I felt like that wasn't any of my business and I would just let them kind of do their thing but but with sfv where would you source it to what do you mean who's the original source for sfv who brought that online who brought that exactly yeah like because that's not just I mean at this point it was spread around so much that like you could have legitimate sfv and not know like really where it came from at one point because that's that's a problem everybody had it at one point how do we now now that it's disappeared like pretty well disappeared as far as like this cut sfv there's one person who brought it to the table and held it there's never been that so now that it's kind of like me and CSI were talking about this specifically so I wanted to get your opinion like how do you how do you even go about sourcing an sfv who would you go back to because I wouldn't go to josh b for sfv because his company never called sfv someone else named me but I don't know I don't know either it would have to be somebody from southern california yeah I don't know who put that moniker on it and I don't know that there even was one sfv there could have been multiple correct and I don't know you know people people would really get nitpicky with what's oh that's a good one or that's not a good one and i'm like yeah dude like if you grow it well like it's a good one and if you don't grow it well like okay okay oh I don't like sfv the sfv I saw was garbage and now sfv is garbage not really you just saw some bakersfield og you guys have bakersfield og bro yeah you know you know yeah um you don't know the seed line didn't help you know he released oh yeah yeah the og and then on out and then uh darkheart nursery started selling sfv and I asked them myself they don't fucking know they're just employees they don't fucking care but they they would use the description of swerves to on their sfv and I'm like y'all don't did y'all grow this from seed or did you source a cut like just fucking tell me like they wouldn't even know nobody fucking knows anything they don't nobody there knows anything you know they're really good they're just employees yeah they didn't want to get fucking peppered with questions from a grower who's fucking anal about that shit no no and that's that's a hard part with a lot about with a lot of these nurseries is that you'll find out like you go to them and these are people who are supposed to be holding the clones and like libraries for people they don't give a fuck about genetics at all so like when you're talking about this nursery you're working with that they were cool were they called uh roots nursery roots nursery like that's a rarity to find like a legit person super rarity um and I'm shouting them out to to maybe throw them some business honestly because I don't want these guys to disappear they're they're doing good stuff and they have good cuts and they're doing they're doing phenoselections they're doing breeding but they're also holding some of that older stuff yeah so so uh and and they know what they're talking about they're they've been around you can just half-hour conversation with them you know yeah you know yeah all right let's move on to the phoenix let's let's talk about this bag girl yeah phoenix uh I got a bunch of seedlings from CSI in 2019 to flower out I got I think he gave me 120 but I think we ended up flowering out 111 okay and uh for whatever reason maybe some didn't make it or maybe they were just runty and I don't want to bother because run run's weren't gonna run's weren't gonna make the cut anyways yeah no no no yeah not for what I was selecting for you know there there were some shorter plants that had great noses on them from the from the t1000 that's what uh phoenix is is t1000 to tk so it's a tk back cross and uh I mean it's really cool looking through that many plants I've never looked through a hundred a hundred plants before from the same from the same line just to see the spread and then and like you could put them most of the plants would either be like green og types or like would have purple leaves but still green bud and be and have more of that musky or cookies sent but they would look like cookies crosses as opposed to just pure cookies um and so the phoenix is from that group and then the outliers were like one plant that looked absolutely like cookies like beautiful yeah if you scroll down my feed to 2019 there's a bunch of pictures of it really pretty really really frosty noug it was kind of a it was kind of a short not very vigorous plant though um I doubt csi has a cut of it anymore but but that's the one he wanted from me yeah um and then there's yeah like a couple t1000 um phenotypes which were shorter but like had great turps on them the bud was kind of leafy um but like so this this one that I selected it had it was extremely vigorous top 10% vigor um great calyx to leaf ratio the bud didn't really purple up like it can a little bit and I'm sure indoors it would be easier to manipulate yeah but but even even even grown out late in the fall like you might get some calyxes near the stem to purple up but it doesn't really want to purple up yeah and uh um it's it's got good potency it's got good yield vigor like I said and then the main thing I was looking for is like I want something with like big og structure and and good yielding but I want some of that urkel turps in in that flower in the flavor of it and it and it's the only one out of all of them that had that yeah so so that's why that's why I selected it that's why I've kept it um and I I passed it to CSI's brother and they grew it out last year and they're keeping it and they're still running it that's awesome which speaks a lot which like you gotta give it to other people because like it's my baby but like until you give it to somebody else and see what they think about it you know does it stay in their garden or not you know how good is it really you don't know because you're super biased and that's why you passed it out like hey I think I got something good here try it yeah you know like I don't I don't want to pass on something that's bunk you know but I think it's good but like I also understand my own bias towards it yeah so it's just I'm growing a bunch of it outdoors right now um it's looking and smelling great I can't wait to smoke some um it's more flavorful than your traditional tk yeah because it's got those urkel turps to it but it's got the tk potency yeah which is a tough thing to kind of try to match up for some reason urkel turps just mean low potency or or sort of that more like lethargic high I mean look at cookies it's a to me in my opinion like some kind of og urkel hybrid like at the base of what you're seeing and there's not a lot of like people don't brag about screening potency in cookies but it's like they're taking it one direction and this is a chance to take it a better direction with more turps and better potency I think so um it's not it's not a pretty a plant as cookies is it's more traditional looking but it's got a really good callix to leave so um I mean that that alone just kind of makes it and it and it I've grown it I've grown it indoors I've grown it in a very climate controlled greenhouse I've grown it outdoors yeah I've depth it in the middle of summer um it's different in all in all of them it looks different so it it might check all the boxes depending on how you grow yeah but I mean it's it was really pretty grown in my climate controlled greenhouse and grown indoors um I had a little bit more trouble trying to get it to yield there for some reason and I'm not sure why yet but um outdoors or in a depth um it's it it's chunky yeah yeah it's pretty I've seen pictures of it I want to smoke that yeah yeah all right then we have let's see what's the next one oh one more thing I called it phoenix I called it phoenix because it's the only mother I kept through the 2020 fire my whole place fire ran through my whole place and and I lost some structures I lost the crop for the most part um and uh it was it was a very hectic fall that year to say the least and I'm still barely I'm still struggling to recover from it honestly but um that's why I called it the phoenix it it needed a name the the back cross didn't really have a name I was calling it back to the triangle for a while which which I thought was a good name um I think Caleb came up with that though um but then I've just decided to call it phoenix and yeah be done well it's memorable that's for sure yeah totally all right now we'll show some love to heart attack from Shabai heart heart attack kush yeah so that's from 707 seed bank before he was it even was 707 seed bank um it's it's it's a kush cleaner phenotype which is uh uh o g to jack's cleaner jack a jack cleaner back cross mail yeah the cleaner something like that oh no you're right yeah yeah yeah with the jack for back cross mail it was a back cross mail that laran uh originally did yeah and he was using that mail and then he gave the mail to 707 seed bank and because he loved it so much and he made a shit ton of the same cross that's awesome and uh this heart attack pheno was just like one out of 10 to one out of 20 would be this early flowering it was a little shorter um very frosty um jack turps with like some like puke smell on the back end and uh not not the not the best flower like it could get really larphy in the middle but it was early and that was that's that's why it it it appeals to me is you know back when i run an outdoor i had my garden like basically four strains and i would start with like early you know middle late so i the harvest was always staggered and coming in because you only have limited dry space so yeah that was one of my earlys along with purple wreck and uh yeah i i grew the shit out of it for years um luckily my buyer didn't mind the the the jack turps but which i know a lot of buyers just would thumb their noses at for a while yeah for sure and uh yeah i think i think that's changed especially on the legal side um yeah i'm sure you know these turps come and go and trends come and go and i think that uh a lot of people haven't really had a good and it's like a pretty bud too because it's so frosty so um and it's good smoke it's tasty it's it's got a great high good potency it also washes really well yeah um so i think uh i don't know i think it'll make a comeback so i'm gonna do a i'm gonna do a little female hunt next year of it with some uh i made i made f2's with it so i took a few kush cleaner males and and crossed them to the heart attack cut that i was that i was using and it's it's basically the directional f2 oh is it a directional f2 because i because i used that one female i wanted right so and then just multiple males just to you know get everything in the mix so there was one you just mentioned and we almost forgot and that's the purple wreck which is absolutely one of my favorites of all time yeah purple wreck was also really early funny story about that one i also got that from 40 ounce um i think i got it the same time i got the the poodle nuts he bought the seeds from from dna yeah um it was the reserve of provata line which yeah i came out later to mine was just seeds they bought from guys up here in norcal yeah one of my one of my one of my friends up here uh he accidentally seeded his garden one year because he missed a male and uh i forget what line that was it was like i want to say it was like old time or something maybe the sweet tooth or god i don't remember which line it was but he sold them all that seed and they bought it out as i don't know i don't was whatever that you could probably find it in their old catalog or something whatever that line was but then so i get this and it's like it's great weed it's like it's like train wreck on a on a shorter plant still purples up you know really good yielder like absolutely chunky super dense buds but still dense but like a train wreck yeah structure to the bud yeah and and still had rubbery stems it was just a shorter plant and uh you know i'm i'm showing some jars to add a friend's house and humble it one day and and uh i probably had the pool of nuts with me and i forget what else i had but maybe some sour diesel and i showed him this purple wreck and we were just talking about and he's like oh yeah i i made these seeds so he uh he made a couple of crosses and sold him to dna and then like you know i circled back around i didn't even know this person at the time and yeah and then now now he's a really good friend and uh i brought him the from the seed he wait he never found a phenotype like that when he popped the seed that's funny like that was like shit this is the one i was looking for so it gained a lot of popularity um it got brought out to colorado it was popular there for a while i had a buddy in hoplin grow it for a long time um uh i grew it i grew it outdoors for a long time just because it it was early it was heavy um it kept its smell you know you know until well into the next year um the high was meh you know it's kind of irkly yeah you know but other than that like it it checked every other box like huge yields or huge yield potential early just that just all that's winners uh purple wreck was one of the first urkel strains i could smoke or it wouldn't give me paranoia instantly that's what urkel was always one of the ones that got me so bad every time still did it was like this one was like eight 20 percent urkel and like mostly train wreck but you could kind of taste and smell the urkel like on the back end which just kind of nice about it and i mean i love train wreck back in the day that was one of the reasons i wanted to start growing is so i could grow my own train wreck and yeah of course i couldn't get a clone of it so of course yeah i mean and then once i did i grew it out once and it was like oh this is great and then i got a urkel cut and i'm like on to the next one after the big hunt right right yeah after finally tracking it down after many years i grew i grew some s ones out i grew some hybrids from uh from jojo rizzo and they were good i grew his s ones out though they were good um his uh sourdiesel crystal locomotive was awesome yep um i don't yeah no i did grow crystal locomotive too just pure and that was also really frosty it just wasn't train wreck yeah um but those s ones were train wreck for sure yeah crystal locomotives this shit totally underrated strength for back in the day yeah i had some of those seeds in my lost seed stash as well yeah i still got some in the fridge from a friend so yeah you ever want to run them they're there um all right so now we could talk about something maybe more modern that's in your garden which is the mochi runs you want to talk about that a little bit sure mochi runs is just a shot in the dark uh strain i bought from a nursery uh just clones i bought from a nursery um just wanted to run something that kind of like was what the market was wanting which is candy gas and uh i was i was pleasantly surprised with how well it grew a lot of vigor a tall plant really really frosty um great you know has that runt smell um i don't know who bred it um i don't even know if if if if that nursery selected it or not but just just a just a great plant for what the market wants right now just a great for a grower and runs is fine i'm not super into growing runs i don't really want to grow runs um but this plant just i don't know it's all the things that runs is but like without the headache of it of a kind of a finicky plant yeah yeah so that's not bad at all and one nice thing about runs is it doesn't want a lot of food and i don't feed a lot you know i mean so i don't push my plants very hard um i you know i feel like that's one of the ways just to fuck up the flavor of it and i agree definitely one of the ways you can get like yields too if you don't if you don't have it dialed in but um for sure uh it yeah it's got that it's not super it's not super hungry like uh like uh like well i mean a runs plant is not super hungry so i appreciate that some of the some of the purples can be like you know food odds and uh i don't know just just good weed and honestly i don't know what's mochi about it or i know nothing about it just a shot in the dark yeah you know so who knows right yeah i think uh it's supposed to be a mochi gelato across to runs if i remember correctly but okay i don't know what any that means yeah that's probably that's i mean i probably is what it is but yeah who knows it could be ice cream cake to runce who knows yeah right yeah all right let's get into some philosophical stuff here um what's headies for you uh and how much do you headies and how much do you grow for yourself and for your own taste i mean you've talked a little bit about this but like so it's headies for you man i know i got some headies from oldsog this winter he grew some destroyer out which is like i think it's thai columbian yeah it's uh meow tie cool so yeah i think you're right something like that he sent me a bunch of different phenotypes and one of them the number five was just a fucking head ringer so good um absolute head ringer head and shoulders more potent than than than all the other phenotypes he sent me yeah that was that's what i will call some headies um for myself like i grow especially this year i'm growing way too many strains so i'll just snag what i like the most um so i mean this year it's definitely gonna be those poodle nuts s ones it's definitely gonna be some of the skittles uh phenotypes from the skittle sherb but i'll keep some sherb as well um mochi rants for sure uh phoenix for sure it's just basically i like i like smoking flavorful stuff i don't care about potency as much because it all gets me high and if i'll just smoke more if i if i need to get more stone like i'll smoke mendopurps all day and i'll just i'll just smoke twice as much you know um because mendopurps isn't potent but that's correct super flavorful um so yeah those um what else am i going to keep oh definitely the og's i've got i got two different og's from 707 seed bank that he selected um ones the 707 og which is a a three backcross to to sfv i believe yeah and i'll definitely be keeping some of those for the head and the 707 kush which is og to his kush four backcross yeah and i'll definitely be keeping those he says that one in particular motorcycle driver by i love that he says he says that one in particular is a a serious head ringer so um i'll definitely keep some of that um when i'm trying to impress some friends uh what else do i have going but i really want to oh i have some actual skittles pure skittles going to i'll definitely be keeping a few jars of that yeah um if well done skittles is just so tasty it is very tasty yeah so like the tastiest weed that that's that's what's in my jars for the most part you know or you like trying to understand what something is i'm growing you know but like if i don't like it i'm not even gonna get through the jar you know yeah i'm with yeah yeah that makes sense i mean headies headies is different for everyone and i think it just tends to be whatever gets you it takes the edge off that you like the most whatever you need to be taken out that you like the most and it sounds like even though you grow for the market you're still growing stuff that suits what you love still yeah well i i find that you like bulk for market but you can still get off the stuff that's good that maybe isn't gonna check that box of super high thc with the strain everybody wants um yeah and you know some people's headies has to be potent because they smoke a lot and and i totally get that but you know i'm a time and place smoker so um it it doesn't so i can and i like smoking tasty stuff yeah do you ever smoke extracts or anything like that not so much anymore um i don't i don't make them either anymore so um no i don't dab i stopped dabbing a long time ago um i just my tolerance is not that high yeah and i mean dabbing just you know sends you through the roof so it's so good for me like i can i can dab just fine and not i don't know it doesn't really affect my tolerance of flour i don't know why but it's so weird like i get so much more high off flour than i do off dabs interesting i'm wired so fucking weird dude like oh you know what i i will hit a live rosin pen yeah and again it's for the flavor and and rosin pens just happen to be super convenient yeah but like i i know a couple people that make them and i and i know you know i they're using good flour in their process and i'm there's no bullshit and um you know they're they're just hustlers on the traditional side and yeah they make a really really good product and i go into a store like i wouldn't even i wouldn't trust you know yeah whatever they say it is like i don't know if it's that you know no that's something i look at myself those rosin pens the disposable ones are great and uh yeah i just i always have one from a friend i don't think i've ever tried a rosin thing yet oh it's it's just it's just super flavorful that's that's what i'm looking for when i'm getting high just like have it taste good and i want that taste to be natural not some bullshit you know in it yeah like i want to taste what this weed smells like you know not the added turps right no no added turps no no added anything you know clean yeah and also it's like you know it's my neighbor so like i'm supporting them over some fucking company you know yeah and that matters to a lot of people totally should all right here's it here's a philosophical topic that i'm really interested in with the breeder syndicate a lot of what i've been trying to do is a group-based effort to kind of push back on kind of everything going on in uh a push of education but you've talked a lot about like the difference between unions and co-ops i believe is what the way you had worded it can you talk a little bit more about that because that's like something i'm super interested in and i don't really know the definition between the difference between union co-ops okay yeah so i mean i'm talking co-ops and people say unions sometime like growers need a union like no we need a co-op unions for labor for for labor to organize and get better rates and get treated better and i'm all for that you know that's a good thing because you know businesses take advantage especially if they have a monopoly on the employment or if they collude with each other you know to keep wages low to enrich themselves um co-ops is for producers um small mainly small producers but i mean it could be big producers but but really we're talking small producers that can't afford to market themselves can't afford to capture these economies of scale that the big boys have yeah and so so sun kiss did this with orange growers ocean spray did this with uh cranberries you know ocean spray that name that everybody knows because like you think ocean spray you think cranberries that's yeah that's what they do the the the cranberry growers like probably up in new england or somewhere started it and it's just a brand they started and collectively um you know they're selling their cranberries through this brand they're they're they're licensing the name that maybe some other company buys their cranberries through the co-op yeah and then they license the brand the the ocean spray name so you want to make juice with them you want to make sauce with them or yeah or whatever the case may be um there's a lot of value in that name so yeah those growers are negotiating better prices because now that co-op is one of the big players collectively made up of many small farms absolutely now together they're one of the major players and if you did the same thing with cannabis and took all the 10 000 square foot farms up here you'd have i don't know how many acres 80 acres of canopy space which is a ton of weed which would make us one of the biggest players in cannabis um you'd have them collectively marketing and creating brands for all that product to flow through and since the growers own the brand they capture that added value so now they're not selling wholesale or they are selling wholesale to the co-op but then they have equity in the brand so they capture at some of the markets right yeah and and and and that's really what it comes down to like individually we can't afford to hit every store and try and sell our product you know and then the cost of marketing the cost of sales the cost of packaging all those things can be combined so everybody pays a little piece and then we capture all the value and ideally it's a big enough company that you know it could even vertically integrate at some point and instead of striking distribution deals and extract deals and edible deals and and all these things we could all just do it in house or we license our brand which would be the only authentic brand in cannabis you know flow canna tried to do that they tried to co-op the image of the small farmer for themselves yes they did it into the day all they cared about was raising a bunch of money to get to sell investors look at all this weed we're going to get from these guys you know and look how much product we're going to move and give us these investments and they're great at doing that but what they were shitty at was selling weed and treating the farmer right so rather than just co-opting an image like we are what we say we are it's not an image it's us you know so we'd be the only authentic brand in cannabis there's there's dairies that do this too like Tillamuck oh yeah it's just you know let us all do this in house and let these small farmers that are forced to sell wholesale and barely I mean you're either barely making it or you're slowly dying absolutely but if I could get a hundred more dollars a pound at the end of the day whether it be through you know some type of dividend at the end of the year or however it would work like that makes it all happen now I'm making a living like it's just farming the margins are tight they're probably gonna they're gonna be tight forever that's fine I just want to make a living yeah you know at the end of the day and it's tough to do selling wholesale and competing on wholesale prices with the glass houses that are just putting out thousands of pounds a month and it's terrible and it drives the price down on everybody I mean that's their fucking business plan is to drive the price down so low and just they can afford to take losses they can afford to learn money because they've got all this investor money to collapse the market and then hopefully they want to be the last one standing yep you know exactly so if they're the last one standing and all these small farms up here go out of business these towns go out of business the whole economy up here goes out of this town your your friends everybody's in the weed business up here in some aspect whether it's you're an accountant working for a bunch of growers or hell even the fucking police you know right grows what are they gonna do with all their time what are the fucking most of their families are involved in the grows like really their families are involved in the grows they've been making a living robbing growers for years right exactly they're funding if there's no if they don't get plant counts and they're gonna lose their budgets and which means they're gonna have to cut jobs and so I mean I hope they do lose their jobs some some aspect I want to stay in business so you know every you know the whole economy is tied up with this thing and if you go down Main Street like Garberville or Hayford these towns that are like 100 pot for the most part 90 percent there's no tourism there's no really other viable industry yeah maybe logging a little bit but you know it's just a bunch of shuttered businesses yeah and that means that many less jobs now the people that worked at that restaurant you know the the 15 people it employed they don't have jobs now you know it's up in North Cal right now like Trinity Humboldt Mendo like is it looking can you visually see places closing down because oh yeah yeah yeah absolutely like you can see a whole strip in a building of all the businesses are shuttered they're they're done as a result of the weed market as a result of the collapse of the weed market yeah absolutely sad totally yeah I mean these are these are businesses that technically have nothing to do with weed now of course the growth stores have all consolidated so there's only a few bigger ones left yeah which which is fine um it was bigger go home because for a while like everybody wanted to open a growth store and they did so every little hole in the wall business might be a good growth store and half the time they're just doing it to get you know super discounts for their own grow yeah right you know and so I don't know there's there's there's still a few up here that are that are gonna survive but like yeah go through Hayfork just shuttered businesses restaurants um salons uh daycares uh like people are moving there's there's just not as many people now and so yeah I mean it's it's a real thing the the economy up here has always been boomer bust it's since since white man showed up it's been fishing and logging and tan barking and a little bit of prohibition alcohol running and uh gold up in trinity and and it's just boom and bust boom and bust anytime you have that that that natural resource extraction business it's all boom and bust and when logging busted in the 80s 70s 80s um all these little mill towns you know lost their mill which was their main source of jobs which is why the town was created in the first place you know the people just kind of stuck around and grew weed yeah any towns didn't die and then medical came through and created a huge new revive the boom and so you had the green rush which you know these towns these little towns were humming in the spring and in harvest season humming like every other truck had like was full of like supplies and potting soil and you know brought tourism from the migrant tremors tons yeah tons of business um yeah you had all the tremors come in the fall and I mean you know they would be in town spending their cash at night exactly at the bar or buying clothes or whatever you know they they you know they brought a bunch back home but like they still spent money there yeah like go to any bar during harvest season on like a Friday night and it was packed you know shoulder to shoulder and most of people didn't speak English it was awesome yeah fun you know people from all over the place yeah and uh so it's it's not like that anymore because you don't have this huge influx of of people and you know if you weren't in the pot industry and hated pot or cannabis for some reason because you know you're just like that which there are people up here like that sure all they see is the negative aspects of it even if they're like even if they're benefiting financially like even if they're plumbing business or you know whatever business is still benefiting um they would you know they look they see all the people on the street and they would get all grumpy about it and I don't know man it's just like that's probably what it looked like in the early logging years in the early gold rush years was they're just like people on the street you know trying to get on you know and so I mean that's how their answers probably ancestors probably showed up here the same way so I don't know you know so it's it's sad to see and it's sad to see a whole like sort of culture an industry up here sort of slowly die or it's it's dying it's transitioning to something else but I just feel like if we could empower all the small growers to unite and this has been tried and people are still trying to do it now yeah um I've definitely tried and I'm just trying to like spread the idea to people that like oh shit like this could work yeah it's tough to get growers to agree on things and as soon as you join something that's the last time you get everything your way yeah so it's it's very it's very difficult um a lot of us are always united yeah united we're the biggest player in the industry um we have the best product we have um the best genetics we have I mean just the know-how up here the knowledge base and every facet of growing including compliance and um extraction and like most of the innovators are up here you know and especially on the traditional side like that's the real heart of the of the culture and that's still up here as well and all those genetics that people have never seen before are still up here yeah a lot of it's generational yeah totally and so I don't know just like to me it's a no-brainer but it's just it's very hard to get people to come together yeah and uh it it certainly is helping right now that the price is so low and people are realizing they're like oh shit like but damn like if I could just package up my ounces and get like 30 bucks or 40 bucks an ounce like that's more money than I'm getting wholesaling right now so but like oh shit now like how am I gonna do sales well you know like why don't you get together with all the other farms on your road and and and make one one brand and everybody just chips in to buy those 10 000 mylar bags yeah and and and you fill them up with the best stuff you have and you you know you you hire somebody to do sales and so like you're all paying one person so you're just paying like you know one fifth of that person's commission or salary or however it works yeah yeah you know so I don't know that's that's my dream that's what I think could be the savior of a lot of people like me that like that are I mean if I was in this for the money out of quid already oh yeah you know the money was nice like there's no avoiding there's no getting around that like that was good I wouldn't be here without it because how else how the hell else would I buy land yeah exactly yeah but you know I would have left a long time ago and a lot of people have they've it's like okay this this isn't profitable anymore I'm gonna go on and do something else or live somewhere else or on the flip side of what you just said you took your money and bought land a lot of people didn't they bought toys and didn't reinvest all I ever want to do is grow weed like that was my toy yeah you know that's what I I want to spend my money on a sweet greenhouse yeah you know not a you know whatever a sports car or a giant truck or something yeah you know that's yeah or for kids I don't have any kids so that's yeah dogs are good enough bro dogs are good dogs dogs keep me busy yeah so anyway so yeah that's my whole spiel on co-ops and uh boy if anybody sees this that you know if you're a legal grower um hit me up on instagram or something you know it's gonna take like mines to get through all this it really is like I've seen no other way through this when I started the breeder syndicate like the name idea behind the name it's like a a bringing together of a group of people like mines like that want to come together and achieve a goal and yeah I want I see what what I was seeing when I was starting this was humble medicino trinity county I'm not from there but I have a lot of friends that are from there and their families are there and I care about them and I realized oh my god no one no one that's been doing this their whole life has retirement plans it's just no retirement plans and there there are things we can do to make it a softer landing pad for a lot of people pay the way for us to be there and there's ways to do it there's things you can establish and and even thinking about shit like that seems very pie in the sky or or thinking about having a tinglomeration of people to push back against the legal market by bringing one big brand together seem very pie yeah it's so doable it really is you know it it's and it's been done before exactly and there's also there's all these other small co-ops you never hear about but they're just buyer's co-ops for like so that mom and pop hardware stores can buy drywall at a cheap enough price to compete with home depot yep buy and that's all that company exists for is to just buy drywall and bulk and distribute it to all these like mom and pop hardware stores yep and they do exist and and they allow mom and pop to survive and compete you know by capturing economies of scale and and uh you know that's that's that's what it's all about i mean even just in the legal realm you know like when it happened like you know half my friends converted to legal and half of them didn't yeah and most of them are not growing anymore on either it doesn't matter which side yeah but but most of them most of them aren't you know either they went legal and then gave up on that and and and went back to the to the traditional side or or they got jobs yeah you know and the people on the traditional side you know they've gone from outdoor to indoor because there's there's tougher enforcement now and and they're they're red tagging your property and so everybody's kind of transitioned a little bit and you know just depending on how how well you were switch situated for the transition it was a lot of it was just luck that i'm still here i've i've been fortunate to have a lot of good luck and it's just by like it's dumb luck it's not i didn't foresee everything working out how it did it just happened to work out that it it worked out for me because just i happen to have a good property for it you know yeah and i've and i've made sacrifices to have that property well that's a part that's not luck right like that's the part that's not luck and there are reasons you can make kind of luck man like you know you built it past the fire like when it comes down to it like like yeah like i could i could have easily bought a property closer to town that wasn't so remote and tough to get to i mean that was kind of good for the old days but it's a huge pain in the ass now to live a life but at the same time i never could have afforded this property close to town it's you know it's it was cheap because it was so remote i mean that's that's all it comes down to it's it's 90 minutes away from any type of town and whoa that's out there bro no it's out there yeah it's definitely out there that's and that used to be a good thing and now it's now it's not so much but i admire it i do i'm still fortunate to to be in it you know i'm i'm gonna i have at least one more year you know um before i really gotta look and see if this is working or not yeah well hopefully hopefully people will get together and realize their the power in collectivism because there's true power in that and and i think there are reasons why people don't know that yeah the need to capture added value to your product and absolutely you know some of the trade organizations are working on consumer direct sales for small farms um there's a thing called the ship back at the national level which um i mean it hasn't been voted on yet but it would be a writer on some other bill to say like when that when legal is that federal legalization does happen we're giving small farms under such and such a size um path to reach retail sales themselves as opposed to um having to go through dispensaries and stuff yeah and that's that's what the small farm needs to survive is is is farmers markets you know let let that small farm sell direct to their consumer people want that anyways but then they can capture these cut out the middle man and capture the added value of making retail sales and i mean the wine industry already does this with their wine clubs and their tasting rooms yeah you know you can come to the vineyard come to the winery taste taste what there is to taste buy a bottle or two or whatever hang out um every every farm's not going to be set up to do that but collectively we could definitely set something up like that and join our our wine club let let us send you an ounce a month you know yeah you know buy a subscription get an ounce a month or whatever it ends up being i don't know but um they already have seen like it yeah let i mean those winery when you go buy to wine country and buy wine there like you're paying you're paying an inflated price you're not getting it cheaper because you're at the source you're paying more for it yes right yeah i don't even want to charge more i just want to charge retail a fair retail price just so i can make a living you know and show people like yes like this weed is better than what you're finding in the store and you know what once once enough farms are able to do that and like actually have a client base yes hopefully they can sell direct but to the people that can't get shipped weed or the people that can't show up to the farmers market they're going to look for it in the store yeah and so that'll drive sales to these dispensaries that are fighting us tooth and nail to not allow us to sell consumer direct so yeah that's it's so important no dude i think i think it's one of the most important things to talk about is is the power of collectivism and being able to to push back against the corporate shit going on i i saw this with 64 like i was like oh they're probably going to make it more illegal for us to grow more illegal for corporations to sell weed which in turn makes it more legal for them to grow weed with the right licenses and more expensive for us and then they'll break us money wise gotcha well i mean i mean the old the old cal growers association has a kai alan like he had to fight tooth and nail just to not set california up as like a six license state like some of these other east coast states where you know there's just six licenses and that's it to let to let these small farms like uh one one of his buddies uh uh casey o'neill said a long time ago if you don't have a seat at the table you're on the menu yep and that's and that's exactly what it is so that's why you know getting behind these trade organizations that that are made up of small farms and then there's one broad trade organization made up of these small farm trade organizations that lobbies at the state level to to to push back and to these these huge money corporate interests that can pay lobbyists and lawyers to write regulations for for the state to say no you got a whole region up here that needs something else yeah and there there are voice and and that's why you gotta be you gotta be a little politically active in cannabis and that goes back to the 215 days too yeah it does like you had to educate city councils you had to you had to you had to be you had to be an activist if you're gonna be in cannabis because you had to like you had to you were pushing through new like virgin territory and you weren't just gonna set up a shop and just do business you know because there's gonna be forces coming back at you so you gotta be active and pushing against them yeah so yeah i mean like that old term all politics is local like realistically a lot of people pay attention to the the you know nations news every night but pay attention to what's going on immediately around you it matters so much more who's on your city council or your board of supervisors or your planning commission like especially if you're in business in any business in that area that's gonna play a much a much bigger role in the success of your business because they might just regulate you out of business yeah that's for real you know because somebody's gonna be in their ear wanting one thing and if you're not in their ear chirping about the other thing you're you're yeah you're gonna get put out of business you know that's how you're gonna you're gonna let wal-mart move in unless you say something about it and they're in you're done you know wal-mart's definitely in your your supervisors ear you better you better be in the other ear talking about not this is bullshit they can afford the lobbyist you just have to be as smart and as active more active and smarter more active and just unite finally we've always been independent and when the price was high it was easy to be independent yeah you know and now it's just like no like you gotta you gotta be if you want to do this you gotta be thinking 10 years ahead what you want it to look like and start now yeah because somebody else already has that vision and that's what they do for a living is manipulate things for their benefit you know we're kind of all just all learning to come out of the shadows and and kind of learn how the system really works you know yeah well dude we almost hit two hours so i want to have you back again like this is awesome we could talk about tons of shit and i know people are gonna enjoy this and like we have forum stuff to talk about we have all kinds of stuff we could do so um dude it's been an absolute pleasure let's talk about some of your uh the places where people can find you um well my instagram uh little hill cultivators um you can hit me up dm me um to find my product and i know mendo can and organic and don't have any right now but they should soon prop to them again yeah totally they've they've been supporting the small farms up here for a long time and and and giving us our recognition sort of they also do a cool thing if you are a norcal like in november december they do this cool thing every year and they've been doing it since before 64 where they'll sell a taste of the like it's called a harvest box or something like that where it's got 28 grams like individual grams from 28 farms of 20 oh wow and so you can like it's they call it the taste of harvest or something like that and so like they'll go through all you know they get entries maybe 60 farms submit yeah yeah and they just pick out the best 28 and uh i've been lucky enough to be in it for the past i don't know maybe four years yeah and so i hope to be in it again this year i we haven't that like that hasn't been settled yet um won't they watch it listen listen yeah still still support them because they've been supporting small farms like even if i don't make it like i don't i don't care like yeah they're still doing good work um hell yeah and right now that's the only place um i think you could you could find me um they definitely don't have anything from last year so i think they're going to get re-upped with some sour diesel awesome i've already smoked it and i'm i'm fairly sure it'll it'll it'll do well so um yeah so that's that's where you can find me all right any props you want to give to any of the homies from the past future presents any of it uh yeah all all all my all my buddies up here csi 707 um i don't know i seem to have like a lot of friends on instagram too that that do good work um uh my old mentor seaweed uh his name didn't really come up on on on this run but uh it did on that last one we forgot to record yeah so for people that don't know we had a like an hours worth of awesome stuff not recorded because i didn't hit the record button so this is round two but yeah it gets us more yeah um yeah i don't know just to trinity county um and the people trying to make it happen up there they're they're a rare breed and tough people and um so props to them and then humble Mendo as well everybody's kind of been through the ringer yeah and uh i don't know yeah that's about it all right brother well thank you for your time and we will be having you back again soon this is awesome and uh we'll see everyone again next week cheers all right right on thanks guys you want to sit at the table with the syndicate check out our patreon and our link tree or description below our merch site is officially live we have all sorts of shirts hoodies and goodies to sort you out and shipping is super fast and most importantly the quality is top notch i've been saving old designs for years for this purpose so please check it out syndicategear.com we also have an underground syndicate discord where we get together and solve old strain history together daily it's an amazing community of learning away from ig and it's an amazing resource for old catalogs and knowledge we hope you join our union of breeders and growers come check it out