Hi folks, I'm here with Sam a.k.a. the Khaleesi from the reset race podcast and she is here to talk about a really important issue and that is the disappearance of black wealth in the United States of America and There's a really clear solution for this. It's preparations and she has all the details that I think you need to know So Sam, thank you so much for coming on the program. Thank you so much for having me like I'm really excited to be here Like I was telling you I'm a casual watcher. So I'm like What thank you to Brian because Brian when you ask yes, he jumped in right away So I want to make sure I say thank you to Brian shout out to Brian Brian is very excited that this is happening Brian is great I love him. He's one of my mods. So yeah, thank you so much for the recommendation. I've heard of the reset race Podcasts before I didn't know that it was Actify but rebranded But yeah, I've known Michael Graham for a while I brought him on the show at one point to talk about reparations So this isn't necessarily reparations one-on-one for my viewers But I since then I've had more people tune in and I casually will mention reparations here and there But I think from time to time It's really important to revisit it and dive back in because every once in a while What I'll notice is that there's people that will talk about reparations But it's not necessarily an intellectually honest conversation or if they talk about reparations It's their interpretation of reparations, which isn't the interpretation of the people who actually are fighting for it on the ground Eidos one-on-one the reset race podcast So I want you to kind of give my viewers the precise definition of reparations because there's And maybe it's not necessarily Maybe it's hard to do that but oftentimes what I see is reparations broken down into two different distinct categories reparations is either one Distributing wealth into black communities that's missing or two cutting a check and as my understanding is it should be both But ultimately the bottom line is you should cut a check a check is really what's owed not just morally But legally and there's there's so many different ways that you can attack this argument They're all compelling to me But in your view, what is reparations and if somebody doesn't necessarily know how should they understand it? So I'm I'm gonna actually pull up the official definition and then I'll go in deeper There we go because I think we should just start with a good old-fashioned Encyclopedia that's always the safest bet. Yeah, I think it's just easier for people, right? Because yeah Everybody's like, you know these days people are like, oh, we should do some we should do we should do a housing program That's reparations. It's just right reparations. So Reparations just the basic The making of amends for a wrong one has done by paying money to or otherwise helping those who have been wrong the action of repairing something So Reparations the way that black Americans who descend from chattel slavery the ADOS movement the US freedmen We are looking for we are actually looking for multiple programs and also a check to be involved as well Because the thing about the racial wealth gap is you can't close it with just programs Because this is the thing so everybody's like, well, let's give people free college, which you know, sounds great, right free college That's the gateway to opportunity. Well black college graduates have less wealth than White high school dropouts. So that's not the equalizer. We try that for 30 40 years So It says there's a bunch of there's a bunch of different things that people like well if we do this We'll give people free college. Oh, well, we can help people with down payments for homes Well, that sounds great, but if I have a 450 credit score Your 25 or 30 thousand dollar Assistance is not getting me into anything because I have bad credit or or I don't have a good enough job or I'm not stable So basically what reparations would do for black Americans is basically just make us stable So with Darity's numbers, he's talking about seven around 17 trillion dollars per fan Or not sorry, not for family 17 trillion dollars total So for that, I like to look at it as a down payment But you know, people should go with Darity first because you know, the rest of us are like, no, we want more So go with the man Go with the man who's trying to be sensible because we like Thomas Kramer's numbers and he's talking about quadrillion So, you know, maybe I should listen to Darity a little bit more But it would basically be about 800 thousand dollars per family Give her and that actually When somebody hears that they might think oh, that's that's inconceivable in the united states But a lot of people don't realize that we actually did distribute reparations before not to descendants of slaves But to the families of victims of japanese internment and the individual who signed that into law the president who signed that into law Was ronald reagan of all people so to think that it's inconceivable. It's not just in this political context that we're in I feel like we're made to believe that this is such a weird absurd kooky concept But it's not just a necessity because black wealth is disappearing at a rate that should alarm everyone But it's also morally necessary and the legal argument Is sound it is what is owed and it's a debt that has never been paid And I think that there's there's a variety of ways that you can reason yourself into supporting it legally morally out of necessity But either way it's something that to me is non-negotiable And with how fast black wealth is disappearing. I don't see how this isn't A really huge topic now one thing that I wanted to ask you about is for the first time ever in the House of Representatives there was actually a hearing on hr 40 which was originally the hearing the hearing was was last was 2019 That was the first one the markup was the first mark. Okay. Yes, right We finally got it to a markup because it's the hearing first then a markup Then right do they vote or you hit 218 co-sponsors and they have to vote which is Honestly, it's it's incredible to to know that it got that far and we're Far behind but the fact that it's there is great Talk to us about the significance of that process and your thoughts on how it played out overall because I think this is really important Because this is the first time we've seen movement and all that I expected from politicians Was for them to try to placate uh supporters of reparations But this is a little bit different. We have members of congress actually pushing it which is Incredible. So talk through that process. So I'm going to start off by giving you vet carnell credit. So event carnell basically motivated a lot of people across this country to get active So basically what happened from there is people started organizing. They started doing campaigns I I literally berated my congresswoman on twitter for about four weeks But she was like, no, no, no, I already signed hr 40. They just haven't added my name to the list Like we litter because originally I think when it started when we started dealing with they had like 40 or 50 co-sponsors We're up to 196 We did a campaign. We would call their offices. We had scripts We like we were not playing around So we still haven't gotten where we need to be with it But it to be honest It was a grassroots joint effort of a bunch of ados people who were like you were going to pay attention to us In our issues and we haven't gotten it to the vote yet But you know if we could get what it's like says, I think we have 196 you need to 18 the force of vote So and we can get more people to start calling their congressman and asking about why they have it done hr 40 And it'd be great if they're not all black people if they start hearing from white people about this too It's going to matter Because a lot of times they feel like oh white people don't white people aren't going to like this So I'm not going to talk about it. So if you start calling them and talking about it, they're like, uh-oh This is going to be something that I have to add into what's going on So I'm excited about the movement, but we're still not where we need to be yet Yeah, yeah exactly and what I wanted to ask you is in terms of having conversations about reparations white people How do we and I mean I'm I'm the white ally So I'm the one who should be trying to facilitate this, but it's it's difficult because at the same time I want to be an ally, but I don't want to talk out of turn Um, so how do you think we bring people on? This is one thing that I that I find um that is kind of the issue is that people There's this tendency even on the left especially on the left They kind of prioritize universal policies and anything that disproportionately helps one group of people They tend to think you know what that's not going to be popular It's not going to gain any momentum But I think that we've really kind of Misconstrued what reparations is to an extent at least as leftists broadly speaking I don't view this as a race-based policy even though it is that right? um This is basically a program that does more than help Ados this is a program that would boost the economy overall if black americans have wealth Then unlike billionaires they reinvest that into the economy into their communities and kind of like this This is like the inverse of trickle down where a rising tide lifts all boats where if you actually invest money into the economy Black people will spend that money in white businesses in black businesses. And so it's not necessarily just um A policy that exclusively benefits ados, but at the same time There's almost this assumption that we can't walk and chew gum at the same time or this implication where it's like Well, if I if I support reparations that I have to Uh put medicare for on the back burner when we need all of it. We need universal programs and that Like so, I mean I feel right now. I'm just like listen There's no we can no longer do piecemeal anything. So, right At recent rates like we're reparations first But we want to bundle we're like give us reparations and like the same day You know put the other bill next to it and let's have a federal jobs guarantee It's the medicare for all is housing as a human right like we are we are down for the fight We are down to everybody to get everything that their families need But reparations is the cost of doing business because historically It's so this is the thing, right? Um, when thomas kramer who is um, who is a I think he's like a historian, but he also it uh works on it does some economic work with And he talks about reparations and he did calculations. That's how he got to the quadrillion number So he talks about the reason why he likes Likes america because he's from germany the reason why he likes the history of america so much is because of the fact that There was always white resistance. There was always like the abolitionist people don't understand that abolition there are white people who died fighting to protect and to True freedom for black americans. This country has a rich history of white people fighting with black people But the problem is we don't really talk about in the history books. It's not something that's really promoted But this has happened and we just have to get back to coming together working together again You can look at bacon's rebellion when everybody came together like they rioted for a year There was a whole rebellion for over a year that it took them to quash And if we would have won the you know, it would have been a very different thing So I think instead of it's frustrating for me as As an ados person as us freedman it's very frustrating for me because like I want reparations But I have four white gods sisters and they all pretty much have children except for one I want their kids to have a wonderful life too.   I want them to be able to do that So I just don't understand how I can want so much for for so many people And it's just such a fight for people to want reparations for us Even if you're not down for reparations, why don't you just say, okay? Well, if you'll fight with us for this we'll fight with you for that and let's just call it a deal And that's that's such a good point to to bring in I mean the problem with a lot of American politics Maybe not even politics. Maybe just American cultures every single thing is presented as a zero sum game If you get something I lose something if I get something you lose something when that's not necessarily it So when you brought up how this is kind of all part of a package But you put reparations first that makes sense to me because I mean anyone who's watching this they're going to be left as socialist communists and They know I mean if I could make a list of all the things that we need to do Yes to fix this country it would be long So we need a gigantic package and we're kind of seeing this build back better plan 3.5 trillion And it's it's it's nice to see not enough at all, but it's nice to see a bunch of things to do without the racism Can we bring back the new deal without the racism? It would be perfect It would be perfect. They had writers projects You and I could get some money to do this people could get money to Take care of their grannies who get money to read to old people write scripts films Open juice bars food trucks like yeah, bring it back Yeah, yeah, and that's what that's kind of like something that we need on that scale where we there's so many issues You can't just address one thing or incrementally address lots of things. We need Medicare for all We need climate change reform. We are not reformed but action We need reparations guarantee so we can start rebuilding the infrastructure of the country because we're going to have to move whole Groups of people from one place to another in this country. Like we got to stop fighting each other and start getting ready for what's coming Right and and I love the way that you put it. It's like if you fight for me With me on this I'll fight with you on that That's the thing that's missing in modern day politics And I don't know if it's just the product of the era where there's social media and we're all kind of Decompartmentalized we're all in our own bubbles and so we don't necessarily speak with each other anymore but I think that solidarity is really lacking especially with leftists and Really what we have to do is reconnect again as a movement and it's tough because it's in my opinion having a movement flourish It really does need leadership Uh, but there has to be some point where all of these different groups come together Ados the sunrise movement and and they kind of have this solidarity and they flex their muscle because together Uh, I think that it actually is doable if there is enough noise and maintain pressure And that's what I wanted to ask you about with ados because this is the first time that we've ever or at least this As long as I've been alive Um notice sustained talks of reparations. Sometimes it would come up in presidential campaigns Uh and a politician would signal support for it or they'd shoot it down But it's only a conversation once every four years This is the first time where the conversation is still going on and part of that is I think the persistence part of that is saying This is what I want first period end of story and that level of relentlessness I think Is truly a blueprint for getting things done keeping it on the agenda. So talk through uh the ados movement in general And why this is issue number one because I think that a lot of people with white privilege or who are non black They can't understand it But put it all in context for us. Well, I get what you're saying. So I know a lot of people are like, well, why can't you just do universal policies? So the best way to explain it is we would be the bottom stable poor in your new socialist society Because that's pretty much how it would work out because unless you're so listen This is my thing with the socialist. I don't have a problem with socialists But some of y'all are democratic socialist and some of y'all are socialist socialist So you democratic socialist y'all are not talking about wealth redistribution So until you're talking about really going up and really snatching some money from the top and shifting Everybody's numbers. I don't want to hear anything because that's the only thing that would actually change It's just it's perfect example, right If we live on the same block and they say, okay We're giving everybody $10,000 to fix their house, right? If you already had $10,000 in the bank, you have 20 grand to fix your house. If I had a dollar I have $10,001 That may not be enough to fix what I need in my house It's it's just really simple. It's it's we are so far behind and people don't even understand. I think People in this country think black people are behind because like we're kind of lazy or we don't really have a good work ethic But you can trace everything through so after slavery we got it together like we went off We started, you know, we started building little towns. We started getting our stuff together next thing, you know, boom people come in They're burning down the town. They're killing people like there are so many books that are written There's this book called buried in bitter waters where he just talks about racial cleansing where he literally was like, okay first So basically only talks about where people over like I think over a thousand people got expelled or over a certain percentage Of the black population was expelled Because originally when he first started doing it, there was too many areas He had to narrow the search so he could actually write a book and I think he got down to like 10 places So like Forsyth County, they spelled pretty much their whole black population Off of some some incident with a young white woman and next thing you know They're killing people in town and rushed and ran everybody out. So that's so like, okay That's a long time ago, right? Well, we literally were We literally had black codes into the 1960s Which means you couldn't necessarily you couldn't buy your home certain places You couldn't live certain places There was an actual threat of danger because people could just lynch you like lynchings were going in on into the 50s in the late 50s So like if you got too successful, like there's people who literally would get successful and hide their success Because they wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves because they wouldn't want people to think they were upbeat And then we just keep going so then after that you have the 70s the 80s You have all this red lining still like and then we get a little bit of something like, you know After the 60s like they opened up a little bit. We they're like, okay, we're gonna give you guys access to jobs We start getting a little bit of something next thing, you know deindustrialization Like and we're back here down. We never got a chance to build real well.  It's just it gets frustrating sometimes It's so hard because like 50 of the homeless population in this country is black Like and you have to understand after they released us from slavery.  So here we are now and our people are still homeless plus the 80s We have the crack epidemic where we know that they allowed You know the iron contra is to pump drugs into Our our inner cities like all of this affects everything that has happened to us then So there are a few people who can work their way out of it But that's the same way for white people like yeah, you know as a white person You might be a worn buffet Maybe but the odds of it are very you know, I mean so people just don't understand It's it's like it's a lot when you start looking at the numbers and you see the data You start to understand so it's not too far to our own like we go to school We get college degrees then we either don't get hired or when we do we make less money You know we we try to buy homes But the neighborhoods that we buy our homes and they don't appreciate in value The only way they appreciate in value is if white people move in and then our property taxes go up And we can't afford it and we end up having to give up our homes gentrification Like everything we try to do to we try to start a business, but we can't get the same loans We can't get the same help like if you have people look up what's going on with the black farmers like You know the farm subsidies pretty much keep farmers alive and they're being denied for these loans They can't get this like We can't get a leg up even when we try even when you're at your best and let's just say you are at your best Right. Let's say you succeed one mistake one thing goes wrong. You lose everything you're back down to the bottom with everybody else I'm sorry. I know that got a little long-winded No, it's it's perfect. It's there's also this heightened vulnerability It goes to the drug war where if you're a successful black american Well, you may do drugs or smoke pot at the same rate as your white peers But who's more likely statistically to get locked up and it's not a coincidence That's what I think people need to realize is that we have to broaden our horizon Universal programs are great. But if everybody rises and you have white people here and black people here They just all rise at the same time But you still have people who are down and part of the problem is that our entire system Has been designed to disadvantage Black americans and that's not some unintended consequence our institutions are white supremacist institutions and any policy that has been Delegated to basically try to alleviate these issues It's like playing whack-a-mole. You need systemic reform because every single time there has been opportunities for growth for black people It's like two steps forward one steps back and I'll I'll give like my own personal example so I used to commute when I lived outside of portland And this road that I would drive on very very busy highway I have never seen a cop a single time not once not a single so I would speed I would go fast not even worry about it And then I talked to my niece who's a latina and her partner's black and every time they drive that same road They get pulled over wow Every time and so to me Being someone who has never had to think through these things not think about, you know, where I am where the police might be That Really, I mean it's not like I wasn't aware of this but white privilege is a thing that you always have to constantly Put in check because this is something that you can't turn off like you can't you can't Not be black. This is part of your experience.  I mean This is one thing that I try to get across to people Whenever reparations come up is that if you have an entire group of people who are Slaves and you just let them go What I mean, it's like we see this kind of now and why the recidivism rate is so high when you people get out of prison They have no families to go to they have nowhere to go. So if you do that to an end family bonds I was watching some weird. I watched random stuff So I was watching something in Spanish on netflix about this woman in port, you know in brazil who killed her husband But she gets to go home for a week a year and spend time with her family. Yes They literally let go home for peer they get furloughs for period of time every year Like could you imagine if like not I would like all non drug non violent drug offenders to be let out But could you imagine like non violent offenders were able to go home for a couple of months a year and if we weren't price gouging Their people so they can't talk to them on the phone. Like we're breaking those relationships Those relationships could be maintained But we take it so expensive that you can't even do that and I want to go back to your rising tides lift off boat So this is mud's thing, right? So Black people don't have boats We are jet on the little wooden Little wooden door with rolls trying to climb up And that is our dinghy boat. So we don't have dinghy boat. We literally have driftwood like That's a good. That's a good analogy.  There were consequences. So queen mother. Audrey more Okay, so i'm gonna go a quick little thing. So after because I because i'm a I love history So after slavery there was a woman named callie house who was a former slave She literally went around and started organizing Formerly enslaved people to try to get slave pensions from the government This is less than five years after slavery. She had organized over 300 000 people At that time at five years after they're telling her slavery's over get over it. We don't need to give you nothing There was literally money There was literally a big cotton stock where they had seized from the south And they asked like do y'all still have that used to have the money? They were like, yeah, we have the money Then they Tried to sue to get the money like oh, there's no money So this reparations fight started a long time ago and it could have been paid a long time ago So the people who were in her movement they ended up going into the garvey movement and from garvey We had queen we had queen mother.   There were real consequences So when you think about that for generation after generation, let's talk about redlining, right? Let's talk about that Let's say you are a good white person who doesn't hate black people, right?  If you really think about it's a setup and all of us have to do not like not catch not fall into those traps, right? Yeah, but but you have to understand that there was traps that were created to condition people to become this way And that's why you have to know hit you have to read history I do so much history on the recent race podcast like we literally have watch parties where like we watch lectures Which i'm amazed because like a hundred people will like watch a lecture and i'm just like okay good. We're nerds I like this that that's incredible. No to get a hundred people to actually get educational information Information is really really incredible um Yeah Yeah, so I want to go back to your thing about white privilege and one way that I heard it explained really well Which is because people don't with privilege. There's this like inherent assumption that oh, I'm guilt I'm not guilty. I never did that my my ancestors didn't you know what I mean? but One way to kind of frame it is it's not necessarily Anything but a disadvantage that you don't have so for example I could be impoverished just as any black american can be but when I apply apply for a job statistically I'm not going to get rejected because I have an african-american sounding name which studies have shown that is the case or if I'm a white woman in america I am unlikely to be viewed as unprofessional because of my hair choice I mean all throughout the country There's been disadvantages in every single facet of society and it takes A very long time to unravel them and the way that I think about it is the first step to actually Building true equality is to put people on society in equal footing And that's why I think that reparations is so crucial not just as a social policy, but also as um a legal debt that's owed I brought up a long time ago when I was talking to michael ram about reparations You know my my father my family didn't have much uh intergenerational wealth But my dad's great uncle died. I don't know if my dad even met him and between my dad and all of his siblings They got split in money for his property that was so that that was sold and so they all got like $5,000 And it was a really good demonstration of how generational wealth works So there was that uh, what was the wall street journal article and they're talking about how a bunch of americans Have stockpiled trillions of dollars and they're about to give it away to their gen Xers and millennial Uh, uh, uh, grandparent, you know kids and grandkids and they're talking about somewhere around $272,000 no 212 $212,000 that's going to be passed on to people reparations is 272,000 so please don't fight me for my reparations when a lot of you are going to get the same money that I need I'm not coming from your I'm not coming for your inheritance So leave my money alone unless unless you want to trade now If you want to give up the inheritance if everybody wants to start over every generation like black people We can have a conversation, but that sounds like a terrible idea Yeah, well and and you know it goes more than just like um that example It goes I think deeper than Showing how generational wealth transfers But I think it kind of serves as a good basis for the legal argument Because there was no question like when my dad got that money He got a phone call from one of his siblings who told him and he's like oh, okay He didn't have to fight for that. He didn't have to petition lawmakers for that He just got it because it was illegal debt that was owed to him And this is a way that I want people to conceptualize reparations It's something that was promised but never paid and it doesn't matter that time has passed That doesn't mean that it's any less owed in fact if time passes the more the time passes The more that it should be paid. I mean, there's late fees for regular Citizens if they they miss their rent payment, you know if they miss their bills So that shouldn't necessarily be a person who used to tax the life out for those late fees I used to work in blockbuster. You're welcome But yeah, I mean it's so one thing that I was really hoping that you could put into perspective and we do have some charts here How I love that you're a nerd because this is I'm a visual learner So to have this is really important. Yes. So basically black wealth is disappearing That's what we started this with but the rate to which black wealth that exists Not that there's much, but that it exists is disappearing Should be frightening to every single person. Um, so can you talk to this? I do have some figures I'll bring this up just for context here But this is something that I feel like should give people that extra sense of urgency for this issue If they didn't necessarily think that this should be a priority Well, this is good for people to see right because some of our favorites on youtube They say that the black white gell the black white wealth gap is only like in the top 10 percent of um Of americans, but if you look at this you see at every weight black people have less than white people Even when white people have very little so if you look in like the first quintile You'll see like white white families have 950 But then black families will have negative 12 000 you go to the next one 60 you know almost 67 000 then black families will have less than 2 000 And it's at every level even when you get up to the top Black families that are in the top uh quintiles will have like 324 000 and then a white family will have a million So these people don't even live in the same neighborhoods or live together So the thing about it is even though white people white numbers like we do need we do need We need programs to help with the disparity in white communities as well But when you put them side by side you guys have class black people really don't have class The first three quintiles are under 25 000 and wealth. That's not class.  Sorry. It's 350 000. I need people to understand that Because there is no way in life that you could reach the top 10 percent of white people by or the top five percent of white people By having 300 000 like 350 000 So if you're a black person and you own a home In like los angeles or new york or one of those big markets You are in the top five percent of black people Even if you are literally struggling to pay your taxes every year like that's how bad What's going on in our community is and again, it's not the failure of people not working hard It's the system the system has worked to literally take wealth away from many black people And one thing that I wanted you to kind of touch on is Or kind of expand on is systemic racism? I feel like leftists know that it's a thing But it's hard to visualize it if you haven't seen it and one example that I use is covid 19 I mean with this pandemic, um, it's not a coincidence that black and brown people Have died more from covid contracted covid more This isn't some random. It's not like black people are going out and getting exposed to it more We're all doing the same thing But the reason why this is happening is because of the systems in place at every step of the way Black people are disadvantaged in this country In ways that are not even conceivable to many people ways that we don't think about And this is because it is embedded in our institutions And you can't take that out easily. It has to be ripped out Um, and it's a really difficult process But I think that that really like you you can't so when it comes to unemployment rates or anything any other data point You can you can try to come up with some bogus argument Well, it's because uh, you know black people they don't work as much because there's fathers in the homes That's a racist trip that comes up. Uh, but when it comes to covid 19, what's This is a new thing that we all learned about a couple of years ago How do you how do you rationalize that if you're a right-wing or diesel?  What's the what's the excuse, right? It's systemic racism So, I mean, could you talk more about systemic racism because I feel like people don't necessarily like they understand it But it's kind of amorphous. Can you give like a concrete example of this the best way to describe is like systemic racism? Let's talk about the school system, right the uh, right the school to prison pipeline, right, right? You shut or there's so many things but let's let's start with the schools, right? So you start shutting down schools or you don't put enough funding and resources into these schools, right? So you have schools that are under recess underfunded plus the communities are under resourced and underfunded so then when kids act up in school because A lot of times like I I didn't do a lot of acting up in school, but I was really smart and really bored So I you know, but I saw other kids be punished for what other kids would do But this is the thing with it So you have kids in next thing, you know, these kids are getting in trouble Like you have school resource officers officers in there and they're you know Locking up kids and taking kids to jail and these kids are getting records in school and it starts to translate like What future does that child have so you were in school your schools underfunded?  I remember I saw this really good tiktok video I wish I could remember it where this gentleman went through and he showed like the levels of lynchings And when the levels of lynchings go down the prison system numbers go up So they literally switched one thing with the next. Yeah, it's So that's a good way I feel like that's a good way to describe it and a lot of there's just a lot of other things like Just the way the communities are set up, right? If there isn't a good bus transportation or good public transportation to the nice white community with the jobs How do I work because there's no jobs in my community? Like this is before we even talk about if a white person will hire me There might be the best white person ever who's there who wants to hire black people But if I can't have transportation to get there every day They can't help me Like so this is it's like I said, there's so many facets like there's it's just a lot It's a it's a system.  Why am I scared? I'm with my people But I had to learn that just from growing up in the suburbs like people don't understand We all watch tv the newsman bards It's like visual you don't understand the things that just shape the way you think without you even trying to As I said, it's not about blaming you It's just about start looking around and if you don't know like just take some time to look up and read some stuff Like I went to private school times in the eighth grade of then from then on I went to public school So I had a public school high school education Nothing that I know about black history and to be honest nothing that I know about the majority of american history Did I learn in school?  I was like I didn't know this till five years ago. Like I just read it in the book like Just people have to people if you want to know you just have to start making the steps and try and then you know I'm starting to talk to some black people. That's another thing. A lot of y'all don't talk to regular black people Don't talk to rich black people If she grew up in the suburbs with you don't talk to her go talk to somebody else You need to talk to somebody grow up in the inner city or talk talk to a poor black person Like because once you do you start to understand what's going on But I think a lot of times like oh, I have a black friend.  I'm sorry, but like you're talking to the wrong person Well, and my response to the black friend thing is if it comes from a millennial You don't have a black friend. We don't have any friends. We're millennials. We don't talk to anyone anymore So don't lie.  You have really in-depth conversations And basically everything that I know I know from Michael Graham At least the intricate details So, uh, can you tell people basically where they could find this podcast? What it's about what you do and why they should watch it most importantly because I feel like people If you're hearing about reparations at length for the first time, you might not necessarily understand it You might have questions, but that's okay. This is a learning process and That we we live for what in 80 years of for lucky as human beings You're not going to get all the knowledge in the world It's you're constantly learning and this is part of the process and reset race is an incredible resource And I love that you do media critique media analyses You take what is being said the discourse and you break it down. I I think it's it's It's invaluable. So explain where people can watch this set and kind of let us know what what you talk about Okay, so you can join you can come find us at the reset race network because we have a lot of shows But our but our flagship show is the reset race show So that shows basically we go and we we go through a lot of the We I say like the leftist the leftist progressive A lot of their talking points because a lot of them have some good ideas But when it comes to black people and black issues, they just fall off the cliff. It's it's embarrassingly bad Yeah So our whole thing is kind of go through and critique so we can let people who are fans of them like for a lot of them Some of them. Yeah, we want you to go away But the majority like we just want you to talk about us a little bit too So we're hoping from people watching us they'll start encouraging the people they watch like hey, you know, you can talk about black issues too We're okay with that Like we like black people too. I that's all we're looking for. So we really break down the arguments The reset race show is a little raunchy. There's a lot of fussing and cussing. So definitely be be ready for it But it's also like data and analysis. We pull out everything. We'll pull out articles We'll pull out charts, but we'll also pull out like clips from a movie Like I pulled out the um weekend at bernie's two clip talking about joe biden how they dusted him off and resurrected When and I had we could I had bernie doing the weekend at bernie's thing for a weekend at bernie's job I don't I feel like these days like people like some people know what you're talking about some people don't but just google it You'll see So we just try to keep it fun for everybody and then we just launched a couple more shows So well bitter dose has been with us from the beginning So the bitter dose tv show has great analysis as well. And when you were talking about reagan Doing uh doing reparations for the japanese and the things that they were talking about mud did a whole japanese internment Campaign internment camp issue were for reparations and they actually went through the hearings and everything else Oh, it's so good. They literally use the same excuses now that they're giving that they gave the japanese about why they Shouldn't pay them reparations of the same excuses.  It's too divisive It's interesting. So we have bitter dose then we just started the john brown leftist and that is all accomplices and ados people So we I think the total crew is like 14 But we average we average around 10 Okay, great like we have like a good uh coalition everybody is there who's it's for reparations But we're also trying to work on ideas for like how to What our goal with recent race the network is to start translating all of this stuff offline We want to actually teach people how to organize how to not only just not use our ideas But how to come up with their own ideas as well So we're we really want to see this translate onto the ground So that's what we're trying to do with that group because it's a nice coalition of people So we're going with that. I'm excited and then we just got another show that was added Which is called the hero hunter, which is by cash and he literally goes through and he He takes down like the george washington myth the thomas jefferson myth So that's something that's really if he doesn't like in a fun interesting way So he has like anime clips in it and like different that's awesome. It's really good. It's really entertaining And then we're gonna have an interview show that's going to be starting around. Thanks give it So that's everything that should be coming out or is out this year. So we have a lot going on at recent race Like you should definitely check us out That's incredible. I didn't know you all had expanded that much. That's really incredible That we we move kind of fast So When you see a need you kind of have Damn it. Sorry my dog. My mom's gonna have to go get my dog. I can hear Oh, it's okay. I have dogs too so I can totally understand if you want to if you want to bring the dogs on camera That will score bonus points for the viewers for sure This is my needle.  How old is she she's uh, she'll be three months in two days. Oh, she's a puppy. Wow Oh my god. Oh my well, here's one thing I'll recommend for a reset race if you do live streams Do a dog cam. So I started doing that on twitch streams and the people show up for the dogs more than they show Well, that's good to know. I'll just Have her sit there and then abuse everything. Yes No, no problem. No. Well sam it's been so much fun to bring you on. Hopefully you can come back at another point in time Um, yeah, I love the recent I would love to I would love to and let me just say one thing So people who are watching this they might tune in and see criticisms of their favorite media personalities But here's one thing that differentiates reset race from other Other podcasts. It's good faith. It's actually constructive and it's about learning not For clickbait, which is really really important people might see it in the blink. Oh, you're attacking this person But it's not necessarily an attack. It's more of a correction And I think that that's so important because when it comes to issues like this That oftentimes get co-opted. Uh, I mean reparations with politicians, for example gets co-opted in those Oh, I support reparations when you press them on it Do you so it's important that you guys take the time to explain because I do think that that is crucial to the learning Uh to the learning process But sam is there anything else you want to say before we before you wrap your dog is so cute No, thank you so much. I just want to thank you for having us everybody come check out the reset race network and You know bear with us.  We don't have to fight against you. All we have to do is stay home So like if you want to get people excited like reparations is a way to get black americans excited You want obama numbers for for people you want Then you we got to push them and to be honest We got to push them to do better for all of us because all of us are struggling So yeah, but if you fight with me, I'll fight with I'll fight with you know If you fight with me for what we need I will do the same and like I said, I'm here for it Like people don't understand like we we we watch all of the content creators Y'all don't even understand like how many black people watch y'all and we'll start watching There's something like oh man, they don't like us.  We'll never say anything about it. We just go away And that's worse because you don't even know that you're losing people. So yeah, you know, yeah, well Well, here's one last thing. So one of the ladies on the on the John brown left as she said when uh when reparations came up when bernie was running that it caught her completely off guard And she didn't even realize that there had been a reparations conversation going on So for me, yeah, but I understand because you know, there's black twitter white twitter So she just didn't fall into black twitter But I think going forward for these next elections like there's gonna have to be a mixing of what's going on because white people when you hear black people are trying to fight for something you can't just automatically dismiss us It's it's it doesn't it doesn't make us feel good about trying to work with you So Even if you're not even if you don't like what somebody's saying just give them a minute to talk it out You know have asked some questions and ask them, you know, and like, you know, well, okay I'm just sometimes it's okay. Just be like, look, I just want to ask a question to get some understanding This is not an attack just and people will give you the information But you have to actually start talking to us instead of just dismissing us me like, oh, you're just a fight or Oh, you're just a neoliberal. Oh, you just you just listen.  He's like 56 years old. He was a non violent drug offender. He was just a drug addict He was been in and out of prison his entire life And joe biden son is the same has those same kind of issues and he had a life So I hate nobody.


Okay, so we moved all to the Best Take-Award and there's just the Best Take-Awards. So this year there were three Best Take-Awards here. The first one is on Simple Proofs of Sequential Work by Brandon Holm and Kisztor Pietertach. And Kisztor will give the coffee. Okay, welcome. So this is joint work with Bram Cohen, who is also somewhere here. So we can ask him a few questions. So I will tell you something about a very simple result, Simple Proofs of Sequential Work. So here is the outline of the talk. I first will kind of define and motivate the problem, or just define the problem that you look at the object, you look at it in the Sequential Work. I will give you an actual sketch, or actually give you an entire discussion and almost the entire proof. And if there is time, I will also kind of tell you why we look into this problem in the first place, it will be sustainable logic. So what are the Proofs of Sequential Work? So let me make it deeper. Like, you know, in the mid-90s, Revis Charmier and Binder initialized a field that's called Timely's cryptography and they constructed this object that's called the Timely puzzle. And it's so simple that I can show you here what this thing was. So not surprising, it's something with RSA. The positive is simply RSA model is n, so around the middle of an x, and so the time around t. Think about t as t4, for example. And the solution to this positive is to find the x to the 2 to the t multiple n. Now, the puzzle generator, you know the factorization of n, can just compute this solution with two explanations, whereas it's conjectured that if you don't know the factorization, you just get n. You have to do these sequential computations or these queries on top of x to arrive at this solution of the puzzle. And if you kind of wait sequential computation with computation time, you have this kind of a way to send the message to the future, right? Because it's really conjectured that it cannot speed up this computation even if it masses parallelism. Not as massive as a factorizer, but, you know, massive. Okay.  Let me show you how to compare what this object does compared to the Timely puzzles. First of all, it's one of these missions. We don't want to send messages to the future. We just want the proof system or a proof or kind of proof that it did some sequential computation. That's it. What was the motivation for this? The one application it had back then was non-interactive timestamps. So I'm on an island and proof is not equal to energy. So then, you know, I hashed this document and I start this proof of the non-interactive proof of sequential work and 20 years later, when, you know, I'm safe, P is not equal to energy. It's no. But I can prove to you that, you know, I had it many years ago. There is this sequential computation that didn't go all that. Okay. So it's an equal functionality, but on the other hand, they also kind of didn't require this weird non-standard right assumption on error state type assumption, but they're really interested in the rather moragic model. Or if you look at the standard model assumption, they kind of showed that it kind of lists with, you know, condition-resistant hash functions and some other not quite standard assumptions from the sequential hash functions that I would initially. So a much bigger assumption is another point that is very important for us, and that also emphasizes tidal ways of publicly verifiable social sequential work. Therefore, the problem is public home. So everybody can verify the proof is incorrectly done, whereas if you want to do this social sequential work based on this tidal problem, there is no way in how to do it because you need the factorization to verify the proof. But if the factorization can also kind of solve the problem faster, you know. So it's publicly verifiable. So I'll just prove this in defined as very simple. This is a verified proofer. The verifier assigns some public right of course, guys. That's called the statement. He sends this over to the proofer together with some time parameter like 40. The proofer computes the proof and sends it back to the verifier in front of some verification algorithm except for the gens. So how is complete the sense of security defined as sound is defined on this thing. So I will only tell you how it's done in the final model because it's really simplifying things. So complete the synthesis the proofer should be able to verify to compute that accept and improve just making T-seq or T-purist around the moron page. That's quite a good point about that. That's always great. And security for sound is defined as follows. If you're challenged to the run I shouldn't use Greek like this. If you're challenged to the run in kind then you should not be able to come up and accept and improve top-prime unless you make almost T-sequential queries. Even if you can make queries parallel by building queries parallel to the run moron you should still make almost T-sequentials. Okay. So yeah, so why is this a proof of sequential work or how we might verify the layout because for no euridicious this is kind of more descriptive of what this thing does. Again you can equate sequential computation with time and as a past this is kind of a proof so in any way it's a proof this is kind of a proof that we have spent time on top after receiving the statement kind. Other issues with the original construction of harmony and howl the first to hear are kind of a result of the fact that it's a fancy combinatorial object that we've heard about this morning already namely death row of scraps. So one problem is this space complexity of the prouder. The prouder not only has time to prove he also needs space which can be massive. Another problem is that because this is death row of scraps it's kind of a parameter it's not very clear what a parameter should be are they not very good then and the third problem that is only a problem for our application that I will mention later but it was not a problem for them is unique so once the prouder really spends key sequential time to come out of the prouder he can't generate a million different proofs except the proofs that you know so it's kind of not there is still canonical representation that this was not a problem for their application to not in fact time-stabbing but for us so new construction that I will show you solves problem one and two of me and first of all in times of space you can break space if you're too linear so for example if it is 2 to 42 that's like 10 rows of magnitude instead of petalite the prouder can only take you up a significant improvement and and I will show you the construction is super simple no need in constants no nothing and finally the uniqueness problem is something that you really would like to have solved and it's like a really nice problem so kind of come up in such a unique perfectly verified proofs without using I.O. or smart like basic objects or less as simple as that okay so construction I use three basic concepts so the first problem I will only use it to explain the energy construction and again you already heard about these things the dephorobus graph so the dephorobus graph in the back there is nothing to graph and we say that that is the dephorobus if you're following if we're moving any nodes from the back there remains a path of magnitude and they claim that this particular back here is 2 to 3 dephorobus so for example if you remove those nodes there is still a path left and you can know for this example you can move force and check that this is true whatever it is if I say dephorobus graph I mean just the graph dephorobus graph is very high in ENT you think of ENT being like literally like 0 long then other concept is graph labeling so if you give me that same graph and some hash function h I define the labeling of the vertices as follows so the label of the source is simply the hash of whatever some dummy element and more generally the label of any node is defined as the hash of the labels of the paths right if you give me that I'm just going to give you time you know then you really know what nodes is labeled and the third the third concept that I'd like to introduce is the sequentiality so and the fact that there are morales of sequentiality so assume you know there's this random morale and there may be some adversary way two quies so quies resulted in 256 bit out of y and some other quies x prime resulted in out of y prime now if this y is a problem in the south stream of this x prime so like 256 consecutive bits of quies was in out of x prime then I can conclude that almost certainly this quies x prime has been made after the quies and the definition of the random morale this is going to be true and if you understand the morale assumption you would call a hash function sequentiality this is all okay so how does the energy construction look like so you know that's that's the first message as before so the verifiers send some random coins to the proover and some type parameters let's say 6 and here's what the proover does first of all the protocol for any possible type random rule specifies some dag so if the parameter is 6 the protocol will say use this particular dag and and just random coins here how I just used random fresh random morale so you can we've heard the talks about so what I did so long and talked this morning showed us that if you just use this random coins as the quies the quies this is random morale page kind of and then surprisingly what it does is it labels dag and okay and then you can compute all these things actually you can can�을 as we really finished after this we parallelize 2 and again here okay this is our face like a child response space where the verifying child is the proover to open the subset of the nodes and the verifying proovers this nodes together with the parents and the verifying checks all the openings are great and that all the labels are really the hash of the, of the labels of the paradigms. And, yeah. Now, this is not what I told promised people. I promised to, like, go on two messes, from the top of the forest to the top. This is, again, the public coin, public coin face. So this challenge of public coins, you can just use here a channel to get, like, a two round coin. That's the energy construction. Proof sketch, how they proved that this is really proof of segmental work. They said, okay, assume that she's really dead for us. And assume, consider the time point five, where the proover, like, my malicious proover, until then, has set this commitment open to the very side. At this point, the proover is committed to his labels at one kind of premise point. So some values are supposed to be added, but he will only be able to open the commitments to them. Now, let's say that the label is bad, if its hash is not, sorry, the label is bad. If the hash of its, of the labels that the proover is committed to, of the parents, was not given that label. So basically, this means that a label is bad. If me as a proover, I open the label, and the parents, and hash them, to verify and check if it's on the fish's toilet. So then you make a case analysis. Assume there are lots of bad labels, then the verifiable cash to the proover. You know, you ask, you remember, he asked them to open some of the notes. You will cash to the high proover. Case two, there are a few bad labels. And a few, I mean, less than D, where he is, you know, in the city debt process. But if there are less than D bad labels, by definition, there exists a path going through, in the graph, if I remove these bad labels, there exists a path of like D going through all the remaining labels. And by the second challenge, if I run a more, I know that the proover must have made at least the sequential queries prior to, you know, computing is committed to that. And if D is kind of not too far away from D, that's kind of the sound problem. That was the first requirement. So how does the new construction look like? And so the new construction is very nice in the sense that it's very modular. It's clear which component has which job, right? So there's this merge of few committees that commits these notes of this color back. So that instead for us, it has this property that if I remove the notes, there's this path. So, you know, every rule is kind of really, really best-ranked. So let's forget about that. It just consists of like everything you want. It just consists of like one big graph, actually a very simple graph. Let's start with a tree, like a merge of people. So this is going to be this committee, this will be the notes of our graph. Let's add some edges to it. So what edges do we have? For every leaf, for example, this color sheet here, we consider the path underneath to the root. And then we add the edge to this leaf. From all these symbols, actually from all these lefts, right, this is the leaf, this is the left, this is the left, this is the right. So again, we consider all the notes that we've opened in the vermin, we commit it to the opening of that leaf, and if there are lefts, there are lefts in the edge. Why not? And we do that for all these. Then we end up with this graph. Okay? Now, before I tell you something about the properties of this graph, the protocol now proceeds basically as an enemy. So the prove or compute the label of this particular graph, then it sends the label of the root, which kind of functions now like a verb, if you commit it over to the prooper, and then the verifiable charge of the prooper to open some leaves, for example, this leaf here. And the prooper will open this leaf, and once this medium opens this leaf, it means it has to be this note, this note, this note, this note you already sent over. And the verifiable, first of all, you know, like the verb, if you commit it, check like all these consistencies of the two edges, that's not everything that hashes together that make it here. But of course, on top of that, you will also check that the parents, so you will hash the parents of that note, and see if you really get this part of the label. And not that conveniently, all the parents of that note are a subset of the notes that you have to open anyway, if you want to open the verb, if you commit it. So it starts, so the communication of that is not even bigger, than just a standard verb to open it. The prooper has to be a little bit more attached, because he has to additionally do this one, and not that just as fast. Okay, so this is such a simple construction that it's hard to believe that, and I will show you that it's a very nice property, it's hard to believe that no one in Himalaya did it before, and actually that's what I thought about a few hours ago, but it turns out, so there, you just told me that, and I look at that, TKC, TKC, they had a paper about time-stapping, and they used to basically the same graph, we're talking different problems, so basically they used this graph to give certificates, where you generate these certificates one after the other, and once you have two certificates, you're kind of verifying that one certificate was generated after one certificate was found strong. So basically they also had this graph, and you generate the certificates by, so I haven't really paid the certificate. So here is the proof sketch. So as before, once the prooper set this commitment, you know, this label of the route to the prooper is committed to these labels of all distance, and again let's say label i is bad from the hash of, you know, of the, what is this pass? So now let's say the prooper try to catch, what does it mean? It kind of committed to labels, whereas the red ones are not really the hash of the labels of this pass that it generated. Now there's the final set S, which contains all this badly, all these bad nodes, plus everything below them. So here, this is this bad node, you take everything below, here is not about everything below, he's already that same as. So here are two claims that are very, elementary claims about, you know, two milestones. The first is, I claim that, you know, no matter what this bad labels are, we find this super set S, I claim that there is a path that is going to all the remaining, to all the nodes that are not in this set S. So in this case, we'll just, you know, this path here, this is the first thing. The second claim is, the probability that if the, it's from a verified chart, just prove it to open some random leaves. So the probability that the random leaf, the proof rule will not be able to open correctly, is exactly, you know, the fraction of the set S over all the ones. So what does that mean? This means that, you know, if you combine this with my instance, the same thing that, if the proof is cheated, and instead of making T sequence really kind of faster than the way you make T minus epsilon, epsilon zero over one or something like that, then if you get a state of challenge on whatever, hundreds of challenges or something like that, we will call, we will kind of catch it with the probability zero over one or something like that. So very, you know, very, very simple parameters. You got that, you know. That's the instruction, it's a little more kind of expanded. Which means that I can actually tell you a bit about the motivation points for a bit. This is about the sustaining the sustaining the blockchain. So, I think everybody here knows about the Bitcoin instance. Everyone knows in the world what work are. So you know that Bitcoin, so securing the blockchain online Bitcoin is based on this piece of work. So it was like, this gigantic fact piece that nothing else than having dedicated the hardware for producing this piece of work here. This is a problem for various reasons. So first of all, it's an ecological problem, but there are some estimates that say that the energy consumption of this Bitcoin mining is comparable to Denmark or some country around the size. Also, the hardware is not useful for anything done with mining. There's also like a waste of these kind of resources. It's an economical problem for the long term sustainability of the chain because you really constantly require miners to dedicate a lot of energy, so they have to be rewarded for that. And these rewards have to come from somewhere, so either the currency will kind of face some significant inflation, or people can hide its actions. And Bitcoin actually solves it by having high interest now with the hide its actions in the future. And there are other issues that I don't want to go into. Security issues. So the question is, I'm kind of like a more sustainable watch. We have heard this morning, you talked about the state, which is probably the less-investigated alternative to the groups of work. So the idea would be there that we use basically the currency itself as a resource. That's, you know, if that works out, it's not gonna be great, but it's really very challenging. So another approach would be to just use not a reasonable resource, so not the currency itself, but like a resource that is less wasteful and, you know, everyone would be computationally right. So if you really know that the two main resources that we investigate are time and space, so we're working on time, let's try to use this space. And there is an abundance of this space out there. So many of you have like a laptop and you probably have like 100 gigabytes of, of course, some of you would have 100 gigabytes of this space. So if you could just use this hundreds of gigabytes space, basically, for mining, this would be kind of like basically no marginal cost points. You could just do that and many people do that, and we love to negotiate this space. Yeah, so, but using space kind of, you know, let's say you're using space, and it was put to space, and it was put to where it's kind of far from here. So let me recap what Bitcoin has to do with us. Bitcoin uses computationally as a resource, and the idea is to basically say that the probability of mining will improve our work first, and being able to kind of add up all the log chain and just get a lot more than the transactions, roughly correspond to this fraction of the whole hash account. And Bitcoin has this nice thing that is that there's this hardest parameter that gets like in the category that we could be, so that also can roughly have a 10-bit, right? So if you remind me, you sit there and every now and then, so it's excellent. So, so what, you know what it's, GIA almost wants to do is replace the proofs of work in two proof systems, proofs of space, and the non-proof system proof of time, or proof of sequential work. So if you use space as a resource or as proofs of space, I haven't defined that, but let me just say this is the proof system where a miner kind of initializes the space, that takes time, but later if he gets a challenge that you need to dedicate to that space, he can, everyone has to do the proof and dedicate that space in the middle of it, like just doing some constant, double the cost of the basis, so it's super efficient. But this is a problem if you want to use the log chain, because now suddenly it's not like one person has proof of work, it shouts out and gives a block, but like everybody else, every miner, there is a new new proofs. So what we do here is basically assigning quality to this proof. So this is an idea that already has been done for example, in the log-in for proof of space beam, later it has been referred to as proof of graph, it's also actually proof of state, proof of cost, but basically the idea is you generate the proof, you hash it, or assign it, or so, and you get some kind of number, and this is the quality, and the lower, in our case, the lower this number is against, the value of the value of the fault. And now, to get the dynamics like the main coin what we'll do is we will run the proof of sequence to work on top of that proof of space, and the challenge for that, exactly, and the time that this proof of work has to run on top of that proof of space, to finalize the block, if that's genuine, actually block, depends exactly on the quality of that. So if I can generate proof of space, it has awesome quality, I will announce it and what you will finalize that block, and that's the end of the piece. So I'm pretty much out of time. So this is a slide, though I didn't get any questions. So you said that it's a problem that we can generate many different proofs, and you can comment on that, why is it a problem for the blockchain and why in your construction you can generate many different proofs? Yes, okay, so as I have this slide anyway. So in this point, you know, blocks are just, you know, it's a chain of blocks, and what the block contains, is basically like this proof of work, so like a seed that hashes to something that, yeah, so a seed that, yeah, okay. Now, in GL, what we do is we alternate proofs of space and proofs of sequential work. So this is a proof of space, it's a proof of time, and the challenge for that proof of sequential work, and also the time it requires, it kind of depends on the previous proof of space. And then on top of that, once this thing is finished and somebody announces it, you can put proof of space in top of that as well. Now, this chain has absolutely no transactions or nothing, and everything is totally, needs to be totally conned up. So this proof of work has to be a deterministic function about proof of space, and if you remind them to generate proof of space, you should not be able to fiddle around with it, to get many different proofs of space, the only choice you have is to be the renouncing or not. And why is it important? It's important because there is something that's going to grind you in the back. So where, because the challenge for this thing depends on the proof of time or what's going to work, if I could try out a million different choices for that proof, I could pick the one that gives me a very good challenge for my proof of space, because proof of space is so efficient at computing. If I can just locally generate a million different ones to pick the one I like most, and then I'll start. I don't know what's actually why is it much easier than it may be. Oh, I agree. So in the construction, the problem is, the problem is if I just cheat on a single leaf, like this one, then it will result in a different commitment, so it will get different proofs. On the other hand, if you just cheat on a single leaf, the probability that I will fail the verification phase is very slow, it's very low, because it's just kind of something like the number of challenges divided by T. So think of T as between 30, if there are like one more, so you see, I can just go locally to little changes, once I get that proof, I can do it, because it's gonna be all here, Xiaomi and Apple, so I can do low changes and generate like lots and lots and lots of proofs. Okay, so let's take the speaker again.


Hi everybody it's Sam at Mixed Up Craft thank you for watching today. So I found this video on my laptop which is from Wave Before Christmas probably almost towards the end of the summer and it is using the well it's showing you how I use the Arteza twi markers or twi markers. I'm not entirely sure how they are meant to be pronounced but anyway. So you get a pack of 100 and these are water based ink pen and they're blendable. So you've got your easy blend markers which are alcohol markers then you've got your brush pens which you add water to. These ones you don't add water but they are blendable and they come with a blender pen. So you have your brush pen or it's it's not as brush pen like as the brush pens but it does have that kind of look to it and then the other end is your bullet you know your more fine fine tip. Really nice pens and the thing I liked about this is the amount of just colors that you can see there there's just so many.  So I went and swatched them out and I did actually try adding some water to them just to see if well basically how it did react and you do get a bleed it's more of a I guess it's just more of like a just the dye just bleeding out it's more of a stain rather than I mean well you can see that there's a real intense color with the pinks you don't really see it so much with like the yellows and it starts to come into the oranges some of the purples are quite strong and I'm just showing you there just the the width of the the finer tip there as well. So I went through swatched everything some like I said much much more stronger than others but I just wanted to show you that you can if you use this on watercolor paper you can get some nice effects with a small amount of water added to them but like I said they're not intended for water yet to be added but they are blendable with each other so when I show you what I'm you know the card I'm about to make in a moment when you color it you don't want to go over with too many layers because it's almost got like a bit of a felt tip kind of reaction so it will almost start to kind of lift the paper I don't want you to think this is a criticism it's not it's just that you don't want to be using them like you're using them as like a watercolor pen or something like that. So I'm using this huge stamp it's one of my favorites this is an indigo blue it's the huge poppy and I'm just stamping this one I can't remember what ink I'm using there I'm just trying to look it looks like it could be versatile but then yeah it must must have been versatile so anyway so I'm starting with a you can see there the orange one on the left that was the another one that I done and I laid down a very light orange and then I built up the darker tones so with this one here I'm laying down a lighter more coral red festival just block color all the way over it and then I'm starting to pull out deeper colors so I've kind of got flipped through quite quickly there because otherwise the video was going to be too long but you can see now I'm just adding in that real darker color now the black is already on the stamped image and then just kind of build in from that really and it's it's really nice to use like I said I didn't you don't want to use these pens you don't want to add lots of layers they pretty much you lay it down you could do a little bit of blending and then move on but you can see by keeping that lighter corally red at the beginning it now looks like it's very light on the edges of those leaves so it gives you some real lovely depth to your stamped image now because I laid down quite a lot of color I am just drying it off there with my heat tool and then you can just go back into it again if you wanted to just around the edges and stuff but you don't want to layer these up they're not like the alcohol markers or the brush pens these work very differently so and then this is the blendable pen now that I'm using it's quite subtle but you can notice it in person so when you're doing it yourself you do see it and they're the cards so it's just a very quick video just introduce you to these markers or these pens if you've seen them on the website maybe you're about unsure how they are used and I really like them they're really nice I said the fine tip is very fine so it's great for detail and I hope you agree the the card's there you can you know really pick up that vibrant color and just a different tone there so thank you for watching I hope you liked this quick very quick video just for some inspiration and I'll be back again very soon with another tutorial thanks for watching bye