Friday, I'll bring you to the next slide. I think it's possible to study the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Apparently, they did their PhD in the Department of Psychology at the University of Michigan. And that's when she really began her interest in the human Roni Elvis, which we'll talk a little bit about today. But to be very interested, look at the evolution of childbirth and things of public anatomy, particularly in the editorial females, and the different methods that we need to estimate both biological sex and public anatomy, and how they differ from non-humans and the consequences of that. More recently, she's been working on a large collaborative team that has analyzed a new fossil comedy, the Apollo Delay, which we're going to talk about for us today. That was discovered in the Ryder Lake Star King System in South Africa. And these were, of course, very well known fossils announced last September. The first analysis that Caroline also has published with on Eli, the fossil of itself is, of course, exciting and controversial for lots of reasons, apart from the kind of crazy, pain-complicated system in context that they were founded and plundered in. She'll talk about that with us today. But also, because of the mixed morphology of the fossil it's part of some of the interest that everyone has.  So our talk today is, of course, all introducing home movies. So thank you for coming. That's your director. That doesn't help you. It's like, why are you laughing? It's not like, what are you laughing at? OK. I'm going to turn this off because it's actually just acting. There we are. Well, thanks for coming out in the rain. I appreciate it. As Sabrina said in her introduction, I'm Caroline Vansical. This is actually me at the announcement at the Maripeng Museum outside of Johannesburg in South Africa on the day when the E-Life article came out with the Pomona Leti. But as she mentioned in her introduction for me, I am a post-doctoral fellow. Even though I am a paleoanthropologist, I'm technically right now affiliated with the Gender Women's Studies Department at the University of Wisconsin. And I do feminist biology, which means that I'm looking at how to take a feminist perspective on doing paleoanthropology. How do we look at what do we mean when we talk about sex? What are we basing sex on? In the fossil record, what kind of gender roles are we placing on the past? Those sorts of things. And while that is not the focus of my talk today and not actually something I'm going to talk about for the rest of this talk, it is something I'm happy to talk with people about afterwards if that's something that they're interested in. So I'm here giving this talk on Pomona Leti because I was one of the like 60-odd researchers who are part of the team who came up with the fact that these fossils from the Rising Star Cave system are a new species. And in particular, because of my work on sexual dimorphism in humans and fossil ancestors, which led me to look at pelvic anatomy in fossils and particularly very fragmentary pelvic anatomy of female Neanderthals from Indicitation, I was brought in to be the lead researcher on the pelvis team for Pomona Leti and we are in the process of revising our submission or our manuscript for that. So soon hopefully there will be a paper specifically on the pelvis of Pomona Leti but that was my part of the research. So September 10th, 2015, so just last September, this paper went live online. This is the E-Life journal that we published in announcing that we found a new species, Pomona Leti. It's open access so anyone who has an internet connection can download this paper, look at our figures, look at our table. All of that sort of thing. And it turns out a lot of people have done this. I assume most of those are academics and researchers but I'm hopeful that some of them are actually not academics and that some of the public interest in this topic of human evolution is coming out as well. So as of this morning when I took the screenshot, the paper has been viewed online 279,000 times, which is pretty cool. The day it came out, it was also all over the internet in terms of news stories and as someone who grew up in Kansas where I didn't get to learn about human evolution in my high school biology class, it's really heartening to me to know that there is still public interest in human evolution. And so this is really cool that there are, that there's so much interest in what we found and this is true not just for our story but for lots of stories when we find new species of hominids. Now, of course, not all of the responses on back in September were positive. Here at Berkeley, we had some dissenters which is really cool actually. I want to make it clear that this is not a sign that we are antagonists, it's a sign that we're scientists. I would expect other scientists to be skeptical of our work. I know that as we were going through the project, we were skeptical of our work. We kept double checking and asking each other, wait, are you sure that's what you're seeing? Show this to me again, what is your evidence for this? Because that's part of the scientific method and it's great because I'm looking forward to how other scientists interact with this data and the fossils and what comes out of this in the peer-reviewed literature for the conversation as it moves forward. These are the fossils. This is about 300 of the best fossils, but we found over 1,500 fossils in this cave system. They represent at least 15 individuals and those individuals range from infants, literally infants, to individuals who are so old that their molars have worn down suggesting that they were pretty old age. Exactly what that is in years, not as clear. We see an unexpected combination of traits and this is the main reason why we think this is a new species and that's what I'm going to talk about today, is that this combination of traits, it's unlike anything that we have seen before. And so, we got together and we named this Homo naledi. This is the Jhangirchi reconstruction of what he thinks Homo naledi might have looked like. So today I'm going to go through the story of how these fossils were found and how they were analyzed and studied by the scientists and what we ended up and how we came to our conclusions. The story starts with Lee Berger. He's a paleoanthropologist who works at the University of the Wittvatersrand in South Africa and he is known previously for being the father of the guy who discovered the Australopithecus sediba fossils and organizing that whole trip. But he works, so he's in Johannesburg and around Johannesburg there's this area called the cradle of humankind where there's a whole bunch of fossil sites. This map only shows Rising Star Cave in Malapa but there's also storkfontein and storkcrands and things like that. And so, there's a lot of Hominin history in this area that's just like a two hour drive from his house basically depending on traffic. Johannesburg traffic is kind of crazy sometimes. And what Lee did was after finding Malapa and going through the Australopithecus sediba find, he thought, you know, there's probably more fossils out there. We need to get away of actually looking for these kind of systematically. So he recruited some local spelunkers, people who go caving for fun on the weekends. And this was in September of 2013 and said, hey, it would be really cool if we got a team together of people who are going into these caves anyway who were willing to look around and record whether or not they see anything that looks like a Hominin. If they see a Hominin, they should come talk to me. And if they don't, then we know which cave systems have been looked at already. And he thought, you know, maybe in the next five years we might find one site, maybe. A month later in October of 2013, these two gentlemen right here, this is Steve Tucker in red and Rick Hunter in black, we're going through a cave system called Rising Star. And they were going in because Rick wanted to show, Steve, this very beautiful area right here in the cave. And they thought, hey, you know, we'll kind of explore around and be part of Lee's team for this and mark this cave off as one that probably doesn't have Hominins in it. Well, getting into the cave, you start up here, I'll do this, and you go down this area here, down this tunnel. This part's all pretty relatively easy, I'm told, for spelunkers. And you get to this little tight squeeze here and it's less than 10 inches high as this says and it's called Superman's Crawl because literally to fit through you have to kind of outstretch your arms like this and pull yourself through while your feet are kind of pushing through. Now, if you're shorter, I'm told it's actually possible to get enough elbow room where you can kind of army crawl through there. My colleague, Galea Gortov, prefers that method, but for most people it requires kind of a Superman pose so that's why it gets called Superman's Crawl. And then you're in this chamber here, which is a big pretty one that they wanted to show off. And it has this feature called Dragon's Back which literally from the pictures looks like something out of the Hobbit in the sense that it is an uneven ridge that is very narrow, sheer drop on either side. At the top it's about 15 feet tall I believe. And so it's not an easy climb but it's a challenging climb and the spelunkers really got into that. So the story goes that Steve climbed up to the top of it and Rick was following him and the top is very narrow and so Steve needed to get out of the way so that Rick could get to the top. And so he found a cubby space that he kind of wedged himself into. And so he got to the top of it and he realizes this cubby space actually keeps going. In fact there's a small hole here that drops down. And so seeing a small crevice that is completely dark and he hasn't been into and he doesn't know if anybody else has been into, he does the completely logical thing that I'm sure we would all do in the same situation and sees if he can fit.  But at this point it has rock against his back, rock against his front and just kind of like goes down like this until he gets to this part which is about 12 feet or something still above the ground level where he actually had to find like footholds and things to climb down the rest of the rock surface. And he tells his friend, you should come down here. This is a really fun climb. Okay.  They see a jawbone. And they're like, that looks vaguely human. And they're not paleoanthropologists. They couldn't tell you what species it is or anything like that. But they think, this is something we should tell that guy Lee Berger about. This is what he was talking about. So they take some video of the cave floor. There's bones all over it. They climb back out. The climb takes about 20 minutes. The first time when they were doing this it might have taken a tad longer. And they go and knock on Lee's door. They go to his house that night. And it's nighttime. And they're like, we know we're waking you up or it's right before bed but you want to let us in. And they show Lee these videos. And so a few hours later he's on the phone with National Geographic who he already has some partnerships with and says, I have something. You're going to want to fund this. And at the time he thought maybe there's a partial skeleton down there of one individual. But that's worth organizing all of my resources and getting this excavation to happen. So Lee being a bit of an odd individual who goes about things in a different manner puts up this Facebook ad. And the joke that I heard from the vice president of South Africa when he was announcing the new species back in September was that he goes, we put up this Facebook ad. He's requesting a person who is skinny, preferably small, not claustrophobic. They must fit. They must have some caving experience. They have to have climbing experiences if possible. And willing to work in cramp quarters and have a good attitude and be a team player. He puts this ad up. He asks people to email, not him, but actually his administrative assistant Wilma who he does not tell about this at all. And Wilma comes into the office on Monday morning and has 20 emails or so from people, mostly women, saying, I'm five foot two and I weighed this much and I think this caving experience and she's like, what on earth is this? But they ended up with 57 applicants. Lee skyped with the top applicants from that and put together a team of six women who were going to be the excavators. Now the cavers who went into, Rick and Steve who found the chamber, they had the caving experience but they didn't know how to do a hominin excavation. There's a lot that goes into that where you have to make sure that you're doing it systematically, carefully so you don't break the fossils themselves. And so this team is made up of women who have that experience, who are experienced in the ability to actually do the excavation. And just as a shout out to my friend, Leah here who's also at the University of Wisconsin. She actually snuck on to the team without any experience caving prior to this and learned it all as she went along but she's really good at excavating so that worked out well. So by November of 2013 this moved very quickly. They were at the site in South Africa. This is the entrance to the cave.  When you enter the cave it looks like this. It's very pretty. My friend Marina here is one of the excavators and she told me that this shot took about 30 minutes to take and the whole time the National Geographic people who were taking the shot kept throwing dirt in the air toward her so that they could get the pretty shafts of sunlight. So we have a professional photography team you get photos like this from inside the cave. When you're taking selfies on your phone you get blurry photos like this in the cave because I've been in this part here. I did not go beyond this point but this little opening right here is that tunnel I showed you that they then crawl down and spend the next 20 minutes squeezing through various tight holes and then climbing up a dragon's back ridge in order to get to the chamber itself which is not very big. They worked in teams of two and they actually very quickly realized that the ground was so soft that they were in danger of possibly stepping on and breaking some of the fossils and so they went to a barefoot excavation where they basically the idea was that hopefully they would feel a bone before they put all their weight down so they would be able to avoid breaking on anything. So they started out they collected all of the bones from the surface that was about 300 bones total and then they focused in on an area where they saw part of a cranium and they're like, okay we're going to excavate this part first because that looks like a cranium and that could be really useful. So they did the excavation and the area that they focused on is called the puzzle box it's about one yard square by like eight inches deep so it's not very much space and the bones are just kind of stacked like pickup sticks where as soon as you try to move one you're realizing you're disturbing another and so it was a very slow tedious excavation for that and the ground is soft it's like dirt so they're using brushes they're using plastic spoons in the case here toothpicks things like that to just very carefully get everything apart and you'll notice that this video is on a computer screen because this is what the people who didn't fit into the cave were able to watch while they were doing this because with the help of those same spelongers who had volunteered to look for hominin fossils they were able to wire up the cave so that there are lights there's a communication system where they had a phone down in the chamber itself where they could talk to people up top if there was a problem or if they had a question about something and there was a video so that they could actually kind of refer to things of like okay we're going to go after this bone next what do you think what technique do you think we should use and get advice as needed of course the people on the surface this is what they're doing they're in the tent staring avidly at these videos much like the one you just watched to see what is going on and be very excited as they are bringing these bones out they bring the bones out wrapped in bubble wrap placed in a plastic container wrapped in bubble wrap again multiple containers placed in a lunchbox and then that lunchbox was done to someone while they climbed back out through and they had volunteer cavers throughout the cave partially there as a safety precaution so people who were more experienced with the caving side of things than some of the executors were in case something went wrong but also to help kind of carry these things carefully throughout the cave so that it wasn't just one person who was responsible for these very very fragile things and they were lucky none of them actually seemed to break in that process of transition some of them were broken once they got up to the top of or out of the cave they went to the science tent here's Peter Spitt trying to figure out what something is I can't actually see what he has in the sand there but everything was photographed labeled given an accession number they cleaned it up they because the bone itself was kind of soft it ends up having a texture almost like dried wood it's like so not particularly stone like you would expect a fossil to be and so some of it is very fragile and so some of the pieces have to be coated with different sort of substances to keep them from breaking apart but they keep track of all of this and then the bones go into a safe that exists in another tent at the site because South Africa has very strict rules that how many fossils have to be under locking key even when they're in a tent and so this whole time I was not involved with the project I was actually adjunct in Georgia and following all of this on Twitter because they were tweeting about this as it was happening and I was thinking this is so cool I don't know any of these people yet but they are excavating and they're tweeting about what they're finding and I remember the day that Lee tweeted we have to send back to vits for more for more safes because they'd filled up the ones that they brought with them because they kept they got done with this and it was a three-week excavation they sent the fossils to the vault at the University of Itfatter's Man the newly renovated and built vault I should mention and I like this picture because it shows you the big thick bank vault door that is on this room and then beyond this room there is just shelves lining the walls that were mostly empty and so Lee was thinking well we have the two shells that take up the Malapa find the shells for the stuff that we had found at Cirque Frontaine and some other sites before this it's you know this vault will last us forever it's going to take us forever to fill this up well now the vault is pretty much full because they filled it up with Rising Star after another Facebook ad Lee put together a team of early career researchers including myself to come to the vault spend five weeks in Johannesburg studying these day long every day while we were there so I'm right here not looking at the camera but this is most of the group we actually didn't think to take a group photo until the very very end of the track and at that point some people had already started to leave but this is a large group this is a large representation of the people who were working on this project while we were there and so we did we spent five weeks in the actually five and a half weeks I should say in the conversation right here you can tell because there's a pelvis with the bones out we had casts from all sorts of different hominin sites some of which were already there in the vault some of which we brought with us from our various institutions so that we had a good representation of casts from other hominin material to compare to and we split up into groups based on skeletal area so I was the pelvis team and the spine and rib cage behind me so behind where this group is sitting there was the team working on the foot and then the team working on the cranium the team working on the arm the lower limb all of this kind of stuff and so we had so many bones from each area that it was important to get a large group together to do this because it would have taken decades for one or two people to go through all of these materials in the way that is necessary for us to do a scientific analysis so we were able to do it a little more quickly now don't get me wrong we still spent all of our time doing this we all stayed at the same hotel we would shuttle to the campus together in the morning spend all day in the lab looking at these bones talking to each other over lunch about them coming back to the lab looking at the bones again taking measurements making scans discussing different analyses that we could do then we'd shuttle back to the hotel there was like one or two restaurants around that area that we would all go and eat that in different groups so we'd spend all of our time together and so of course dinner conversation was nothing but what do you think it is well I can get this well how do you think they got in the cave well maybe it's this and so that was like all we did and then we were actually sharing rooms with you it was two people to a room and so even as you got ready for bed you were still talking to your roommate about this and thinking about it as you fell asleep only to wake up the next morning have breakfast with everyone and shuttle to campus again and do it all over again so we spent so what on earth are these rising star fossils and how how can we figure it out so I'm going to go through the anatomy the comparisons that we made and what we ended up just figuring out well when we look at the brain size for Homo Naledi it's about 560 cubic centimeters and that's the large estimate there's other individuals that are a little smaller in the 400 range to give you a comparison humans we ever drawn 1400 cubic centimeters so this is a really small brain creature this is not a human not even close we also have multiple crania that we can look at cranial shape and the cranial shape for Homo Naledi shown by the best four here is not one that is that is long front to back and short top to bottom it's more globular more circular than that and so it's different than what we see in some early Homo species we have tons of teeth some of them are beautiful and in mandibles like this some of them most of them are not in mandibles and they're just isolated teeth but we've been able to actually go through and figure out which teeth go together to come up with individuals I'm very glad I was not on the tooth team that had to solve that puzzle because that sounded tedious to no end really post-cranial person but the teeth for Homo Naledi they all look very similar so there's not a lot of variation between different individuals of the species and when we compare them so this is in Dmini C211 so Homo erectus specimen something to note is that the cuss pattern on the molars is a lot simpler in Homo Naledi these aren't the teeth of Homo erectus we move down the body to the shoulder here's some examples of we have multiple humori I could actually have more scapula but I know we have more scapula than that but I like having the skeleton here which is an artist reconstruction done by National Geographic so it is by no means 100% accurate but I like how they do the shoulders here because it kind of gets at what the shoulders of Homo Naledi look like they were hunched like this which basically means that they had shoulders that looked more chimpanzee like they were more primitive they were able to be more flexible in terms of being able to move by their cromial process and so it's something that is going to make it so that by having a more flexible shoulder it's a potential adaptation for climbing that at least still exists in this species now that doesn't guarantee that they were climbing although they did apparently climb into the cave but they had bad ability which really puts them looking more like an Australopithecus than something in the genus Homo when we looked at the hands the areas the hands that aren't human like the phalanges of the fingers are curved slightly so again this is something that we see in like a chimpanzee or a very primitive feature in Australopithecus suggesting that they would be better adapted to be able to hold on to things like tree branches or my own pet theory rock ledges and caves because I keep pushing for they were adapted to living in caves but the hands are this mixture of both primitive and derived features and the thumb has this weird thing going on so this is the first metatarsal so the metatarsal sorry metacarpal can't speak today metacarpal in the thumb going to the thumb and this picture looks like it's upside down it's not it is actually thicker at the part where the thumbs actually branches often starts and it is at the base where the wrist is and that's something unusual we don't see that ever in anything this is a pretty unique feature and so it's got this weird weird trait that if we had only found one first metacarpal we would think okay well this individual was weird and maybe had pathology going on but we have a whole bunch of these we have this for multiple individuals and they all look like this so we have like this weird derived feature that is derived from these going on in the thumb the spine we don't have a ton represented from the spine but what we do have is enough to know that they were small they were like Lucy sized they still had fairly large vertebral I can't think of words today sorry openings there and so the spine we don't know much about like what the curvature looked like how many lumbar vertebrae they had because we really don't have enough so we can't say a ton about that except that at first glance they do seem to look more Australopithecus like at least in terms of body size the rib cage okay I don't know why I did that okay so I actually don't have a good picture of our reconstruction of the rib cage because this hasn't been published yet and this artist's reconstruction is absolutely terrible and looks nothing like it but what it ends up looking like it ends up looking like Lucy the reconstruction that they were from there that make it possible to throw it into a model to see what to predict what we think the rib cage would look like and it's cone shaped it looks like something that Lucy would have had which again this is all very primitive features that we've got here and then we get to the pelvis my baby so there's like three slides on this bear with me so we have 41 pieces of the Homo naledi pelvis and this is they're very fragmentary it's hard at first glance to get any idea of what we're even looking at I spent two weeks arguing with people about whether or not I was looking at pieces of scapula or fragments of scapula or fragments of the pelvis because some of them it was hard to tell but there's a few pieces here that are useful for morphological comparisons to other species so I was able to do a few things I was able to look at the ilium so we're looking at the top part and we have this great piece here 1100 and so here it is in front of you here it is in top view and this angle kind of represents iliac flair and it's something that because we don't have the pubis for Homo naledi we're measuring it at the greater sciatic notch and then going to the iliac crest right where the iliac pillar actually terminates because all of that is preserved and what we can tell from this is that it is very very flair this angle looks way more like lucy than it does a recent human and if you my analogy for this is a few picture the top of the pelvis is being kind of a bowl it's kind of bowl shaped in humans where we have this very steep walls for the ilium lucy is different it's more of a saucer where it's not so steep it's more plate like a lot more like lucy we also have a whole bunch of issue preserved and so there's not a lot to be said about the ilium but we can look at this feature right here the tubular acetabular sulcus there we go which is the distance between the acetabular and where the leg attaches and the ischial tuberosity where whole bunch of muscles attach and this is something that in humans can see so it's something that seems based on a couple of data points to be something that gets shorter over time over hominin evolution and in Homo naledi it's pretty short and again because I have multiple individuals preserved for this I know that this isn't some weird aberration or pathological individual this is all of Homo naledi seems to have I can go on and on about the pelvis I won't we'll end there but feel free to ask me more questions about it moving down the body to the lower limb the long bones are long they're these were not short individuals I think our high dense estimates are between like four foot nine and five foot three so you know these aren't like tiny long bones so this is actually just one tibia rotated in four directions although we do have multiple tibia to show and they're very narrow so they weren't supporting a lot of body weight for the femur the top of the femur head sorry not the top of the femur head the femur neck is basically squished anterior posteriorly so from front to back and it's elongated and that allows to attach to this femur it has to stick out a little bit more but once you get down to the knee and it's better represented from the tibia than this femur although we have a couple of distal femur pieces here this is looking completely like human anatomy except they're very narrow bones we get to the foot it looks completely human these are as human as you or I the only thing is that they seem to be small footed you know palest shoes or something they would probably have to shop in the older kids section as opposed to the adult section but they have the inline big toe they've got an arch it's not quite as great as us but you have to remember these people probably weren't actually wearing shoes so that's going to affect arch shape some but otherwise the foot looks pretty much like ours and we have this foot with individuals it was actually really annoying because I'm good friends with a guy who was with some of the people who were on the foot team and they were at the table right next to mine basically and I'm sitting there trying to figure out what am I going to do with these 41 tiny fragments of broken pelvis and they're like this is another complete phalanx this is another one we found talking about locomotion and things and what we come up with is that Homo naledi's locomotion was probably very similar to ours with the exception of the hip maybe needing to swing around a little more because it seems to be extra flared so how do we know this is a new species well it's because of the morphology it's not like we can use the biological species concept here unless we have a time machine that they have to go on so what we did was we compared the skeletal morphology of Homo naledi which represents really the entire skeleton and we compared it to every other hominin species that have been found and we looked for differences and this is a slide I made very quickly this morning it is not an exhaustive list but we basically each team was going through every hominin species and testing the null difference between the rising sarphosals and this species that we're looking at and we did this for each part of the body and in every case there was at least one usually multiple parts of the body that didn't match up with any of the previously known hominin species and again not exhaustive at all I'm sure I left many parts of the body out of here and I wasn't able to fit all of the species that I wanted to or the null hypotheses were all rejected this was different than every other hominin species so we had to name it a new species based on the cranium the hands the feet we decided that it would probably fit better in the genus Homo than it did in the genus Sustralopithecus if I love this so we have a new morpho species using the morphological species concept that's what we were able to do we weren't really talking to the other groups as much yet I was convinced that we'd found an australopithecus because of course I had this very lucy flair pelvis and I was sitting next to the guys who were telling me that had a very cone shaped rib cage and I thought this is definitely something australopithecus boy was I wrong so we have this again another artist reconstruction of what australopithecus afarensis as the two the artist chose to picture here so morph based just on the anatomy we know we're looking at a different species now I get to tell you my joke so why was Homo naledi so grumpy because he couldn't get a date I know really bad sorry this is the thing on fossils for five and a half weeks straight so one of our colleagues found that the homo naledi reconstruction by Grachie looks very similar to the popular internet meme grumpy cat and the date thing is actually true we don't have a date for this material it's not really unusual for South Africa it's really hard to get dates in South Africa and some other places but that really just gives us a very broad cap and right now we can only reach the top one we can't reach the bottom yet because we haven't finished excavating because there's a lot of bones there there's no other animal or faunal remains in the cave to give us any idea of faunal sending them out to labs outside of South Africa which involved a lot of red tape and so that is in progress right now and I hope we will soon have at least a somewhat range for this that is better than you know well it's younger than 6 million years ago but we don't really know anything on past that very soon but the thing with the date is when if Homo Naledi was way back here something very early possibly earlier than any other than Australopithecus before we even get to genotomo type stuff it's weird one because we wouldn't expect to see something in genotomo that early and two because we have a practically human foot a practically human hand and a cranial features that are not matching up in the period that would be really strange and kind of mess up how we think about human evolution there if it falls in the same time span as currently known early Homo assessments it's also going to be weird because again it has these really modern looking features like the feet but then it has these really primitive looking features like the hip that other features if this is something that is living at the time of neanderthals or something like that so wherever it falls in the timeline it's going to be weird and I can't wait to get into the academic debate of what exactly this means once we do have some data estimates the other weird thing about Homo naledi is that it was found in this weird chamber that's hard to get to any other explanation for this for how they got into this cave and what they were doing there and we were able to reject a lot of hypotheses the one we couldn't reject was that they purposely put their dead in this cave we don't know culturally what that means like I said these are small brain creatures that are not human so we don't know what their motivation was for doing this but we do know there were no other different times they're based on how the bodies are deposited in this cave system these are not deposited in the way where this was all one group that died in there and that was it this happened multiple times so it was a recurring thing there's no signs of carnivore bites or anything that they were dragged into this cave by another animal and we are you know even if that is absence of evidence is an evidence of that there's also the fact that we didn't find any other faunal remains in here and so it's a little far-fetched to think that we are looking at a carnivore dragging in just hominins because that's the only thing they were eating at least we don't see that anywhere else in the fossil record there are no other animals present so it's not like they got washed into this cave or anything like that there's no evidence of fire or that they were living in the cave and this is deep in the dark zone that you have you can still get some daylight there's still some openings and things but after that you spend 15 minutes in an area where you can only the only source of light is what you bring with you and so why on earth would any creature want to do this clearly it's not very popular because we don't find other animal bones in there in the first place and so this rejects most of the other reasons on why we would usually think we were finding hominins in a cave that's the hypothesis I'm a little skeptical of that it was intentional deposition but right now that's the best hypothesis we have and we're excited to hear other scientists tell us why that might be wrong because if we can reject that then that means that we have to look for something new and this is how science is going to progress so I want you to think about what you think of this and the reason I want you to think about this is because there's a bunch of things that are not really common and there's plans to eventually scan more but it's kind of slow and there's bureaucracy and that and just getting the people power in terms of actually getting people to do the scans and get them online takes a while but there's 89 scans and you can analyze them with free software on your computer and analyze them and decide what you think these fossils look like if you have a 3D printer you can do 3D printouts this is a picture of Christina Kilgrove who's a bioarcheologist in Florida posted the day that the site went live where she immediately printed out the maxilla and so I hope that other scientists are including people in this room are going to be looking at this data and coming up with their own hypotheses on what's going on and I also just want to give a quick shout out if you happen to be attending the AAPA meetings this year Saturday morning we are having an entire session on home on the that I hope people attend because we are going to be talking about all of the stuff that's going on today we currently have Cavers and excavators who are still working in the cave system we are currently not excavating in the Dinaleti chamber where these fossils came from that are instead exploring other chambers partially because we're hoping that we're going to find some that are associated with Bona but there's still stuff going on and we're going to find new things looking into it and so there's going to be more on this story for sure so stay tuned and thank you I'm happy to feel questions to try and figure out what we can say to that what we know right now is that they have small molars they are not sterile but they can steep by any means they have small canines and so that suggests that just like we re-guess with Hormorectus and as such species that we would be thinking of some sort of door just being told all in some way we don't know yet but that's where the eyes of goats are going to come in and we're going to hopefully be able to get an answer to that Do you have any hip-hop and size causes of death? We don't so there's no broken bones there's one that had a infection on the toe that healed while they were still alive so they sent their toe and they healed before they died but it's not like they fell into the cave and died in a corner part I'd like to say we have no animal teeth marks or anything like that so we don't really have a cause of death and we have a weird sample for ages that this isn't like it was just really old people who they sent them to the cave to die or something like we have babies and so yeah we don't have any hip-hop disease right now for that I know there's a whole bunch of different individuals what is the most complete single ones go together we can tell some based on age some like the hand and part of the wrist were articulated and so we know those go together and what they did is when they were excavating these they had an arctic scanner with them that they were able to scan the surface floor so that they know the exact orientation of all these bones together so let's see that we'll hopefully go through and try to guess which ones were individuals that went together but for most of the fragments so yeah we don't really have exact individuals most of the 16 individuals are actually represented by the teeth for the pelvis there's like 5 individuals as the MNI but we have every part of the body represented multiple times in multiple individuals and so we are able to put together pretty good composite which is with both kind of army skeleton that you know put together like source or would they would they have had a different kind of vision that would allow because it seems like that's a pretty treacherous it is it does seem very treacherous and it's certainly something so I have the composite skull that we've made here they don't want particularly like the iris or anything so we're not thinking like these are maternal creatures or anything like that and so it is this question of what kind of lights there are so they have personally I'm looking really kind of aside in terms of what are they doing how are they doing this but right now we don't have any evidence of what the lights were so quickly so I knew you had that charge showing us how these specimens compare to other groups I was just wondering do you have any data slides that show us how they quantitatively discriminate these specimens from other other groups right now it's talked about a little bit in the life paper it's sensibly a life paper in terms of the comparisons that we made in the subliminal the original intent is that we were going to at the same time as that paper comes out have a whole bunch of papers representing the skeleton so we don't have all of the data and all of the details in that initial paper and those papers are all in various stages of being reviewed and revised and submitted again kind of thing right now so we are hopeful like you know maybe it's like a year or so and we'll have different people to reach part of the skeleton that will include that data on the hand and the foot but so far so good I'm not actually finished with the review process yet and just as like a follow-up question since these are all found like in the same place is what do you guys think about the hypothesis that the variation you see between this and other groups is just localized population and level variation um I so I've heard that idea before that this is just you know a population that looks different than other members of the possibly the same species um that we've identified previously that this isn't homonymy this is something else um and the problem with it is just that you don't get a lucy like pelvis with any with that dentition you don't get it with that kind of foot and so it's composite but we have multiple individuals for each part of the skeleton so we know that's what the pelvis or the legs look like um and so even though we don't know what exactly one individual looks like we know overall what they look like at each part of the skeleton and it just doesn't work out that it matches anything that we see and so any species that any known species previously that you put it into um it ends up extending homogenous variation you put in homorectis and suddenly you're saying well actually depending on the species of us some of them have human looking feet which as well is not human looking and so there's always something that is just like a really jarring mismatch comparative sense is like for like late actual and early homo in the with the pelvis what were the comparative specimens that you were using for the pelvis let's see I looked at um well for early homo I looked at ericotomy um it threw me off a genuishon which is later in time and agent but you know I looked at basically anything I could get my hands on in terms of cast materials compared to um I compared it to the manuscript from gono although I didn't actually have gono with me uh looked at casts of lucy it's really I did try to look at everything that had been published on in terms of pelvic remains and I was coming at this having just done my dissertation research looking at neanderthals so I also had a really good idea what neanderthals look like at these like neanderthals um so that was what I was doing like I said we did try to bring cast material with us from our different institutions to create a large cast collection of live neanderthals with us because we have a large sample of those there and so um the team that was working on teeth and also kind of neanderthal morphology uh with those and so they had a wide variety um some other people were able to bring materials from um age and things like that uh so cast of material that we weren't able to actually have any comparisons from um and the ones that we can't compare directly we try to make sure that after we scan the advising star material we way to solve these fossils in order to try to get a better idea of them and even the limited sample sizes for anyone tax on a lot of post-cranial elements do you feel that this morphology is different enough that you can exclude that it's a taxonomy all the time um but when talking and I'm also a huge worker I love to work things together and say this is just a variation of the species that's like my go-to response to almost everything um but when you have species that are mostly defined based on crania and now suddenly a species player leaves and so when post-cranial doesn't match even if there's cranial features there somewhere that this is how we got to this is how the genus come which is yeah there are some cranial features that are sort of useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a useful or a what John Gertrude did to face that on. It's much less modern looking, though, so I'm not sure that's really just like. The cats here deserve a lot of love. Right, exactly. It's confusing, I know. I don't know what the thinking was in doing her instruction to do that. Apologize. I'm just, I'm a good question. There's interest, are there children? There are, there are children. There are young adults. There are, I'm going to say teenagers in the country. This isn't the MNI of 15 or of the other things that can. This isn't the MNI of 15. So we have only a few that we do know are like full adults. And again, most of those are just based on teeth. But then we have their parents, a baby, who's a toddler that's represented by some of the hormones. The pelvis, we actually have a lot of juvenile material, which is difficult because it's not the part of the pelvis that's useful to determine exactly how old it is. But we can tell from the size and from the fact that it's part of the hemorrhageuse that this is definitely not quite an adult yet. It's a small human eye, but an age all the way across. Yeah, so it's an interesting example because it allows us to ask different questions about what we've asked from possible motherhood where we're only having one or two. Can you do a common email? New. Do you know pieces that look like that? There are, so, from the pelvic material, the closest we come to looking at features that are to be considered succulent or possibly predicted to be sexually demorphic and a little ephemous. We have four great side-eye patches. None of them are complete. They all seem pretty wide. I have no idea, one of them is a kid, so that doesn't help me at all. I have no idea if this is like, we just have to find three females and this happens to be what, preserved, or this is something that was wide and proximal in the body and was actually sexually demorphic. I don't know of the example. Looking at the rest of the skeleton, we have crania that are slightly smaller than others, so if you go off the crania, it's the capacity of size. The dental size. Or dental size, you can say like, okay, that's like the smaller ones or female and that's like the larger ones around. But there's not a lot of diversity between those, and so that variety is pretty small, so I'm kind of on the fence on thinking that that actually represents size. And the last question is, it seems like getting the bones into the cave from the smaller, you can't ask questions. Is the only way then to get them to that very last chamber to go all the way through, could you get up the back and then drop things down from that opening? You could drop them down. The way they're deposited though, could they look like they could be dropped or they still spread out if someone had your bones? Yeah, I think one of the hypothesis that someone might have. This is a really good question. So the excavator's kind of showed me that it would be possible for them to have kind of dropped them down the end of dragonsback and for them to kind of like sludge in there, and then as they drop more, those kind of sludge further pushing out. So the deposition could be that. It could be that, yeah. This leads to us knowing that there were multiple depositions for this.  Right, exactly, exactly. So it's, it doesn't totally help us that the hypothesis is true. They weren't actually at the chamber alive. But then they also somehow dropped them in a way where they didn't break at all, because we have no breaks from that that we would suspect from a, assuming they were flesh parts. Sorry, I know. So do you guys want to have a date on this specimen? I was just wondering, yeah, yeah. Do you have a sense of how much time there is between the depositions if you have to guess or ask me? No, the only thing is that we can tell you, there might get slightly differently where we can tell where one deposition ends and the next one begins, and you might, this is all of them, like eight inches and so. I can't go into detail of this because I haven't looked at the data on exactly how they were deposited. I'm just beginning with the people that excavated that have told me. And so I don't think there's a way at the stage to know how they moved around, except that the hand that's fully articulated, that wasn't on top. That was actually one of the second level depositions. And so presumably this was long enough, or at least in that case, the prediction is that that wasn't really decomposed before the next layer was deposited on top of it, because I hand stayed together even after that. But that doesn't tell us for any of the other ones how much time there would have been. And without knowing exactly the temperature and if I was going to have to take it, I don't know how long it would have taken it to be this level or anything, so. Was any of us ever tried and bailed or was it still to be tried? I don't know. I know that we have a team that's working on that, and I'm not part of that team because it's not my area of expertise. I'm more personatic this gradient. And so I don't know exactly what techniques have been tried. I know that there were lots of easy teeth to looking possibly for uranium, something like isotopes. But I don't know the current status of those. I haven't heard anything since September when they were planning on starting this process, and I haven't heard anything that they liked how it was. I know that they've been looking at dating the lidstones, and so they were working on doing the top one in the cave. But I don't think they have access to the one that's under vacant because we don't know how far down it is. So even that's kind of on offense. So this is a little stuff that it's in process, and as the science, as the analyses come through, there's a little certain bullish on them as soon as we know, but we're not right there yet. And with a broad team like this, I'm sadly not an expert on everything. Thanks for coming. Thank you very much. Thank you.


Greetings, friends! Welcome to CTUCC Conference Cast for February 20, 2014, the regular podcast of the Connecticut Conference of the United Church of Christ. Whoever you are and wherever you may be on life's journey at this very moment, you are welcome here. We apologize for last week's gap in our podcast, which was the result of yet another bout of bad weather here in Connecticut. The snow and ice has been playing havoc with our publications in every medium this winter, and we thank you for your patience. As a result, this week's show will include not one but two reflections, as Tamara Morland recorded a wonderful meditation for last week's podcast, and we'll use that to close today. We begin this week's conference cast with this meditation from Anne and Tim Hughes, co-directors of Silver Lake Conference Center. They've just returned from warmer climbs, where they've been exploring the wonders of God's creation in a way rather different than the way they usually do it at Sharon, Connecticut, where they have the privilege to work and play in what we love to call God's backyard. And so, they've turned to the first chapter of Genesis and these words. And God said, Let the water team with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky. So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teams according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind, and God saw that it was good. Their reflection is read this week by your podcast host. The underwater sea world is a lot like the spiritual world, teeming with life, rich in astonishing color that changes according to the light it's viewed in, communities rich with personality drama and surprised voices of creatures and waves, and lots of movement going on. But it takes some effort and intention to visit the underwater world, much like the spiritual world. Most of the human species throughout the millennia have lived near it or beside it or sometimes on it. But we have to return to the vicinity. We have to purposefully get ourselves close to it and we have to turn our attention towards this submerged world to visit. We may wear a lens to view it more clearly. We may don divers equipment and accessories like fins and tanks to turn off our above water noise, slow down our breath and get in and get a good look. But wet. Notice all this life going on beyond our usual consciousness. Listen to very different sounds, the waves, the bubbles, the pelicans diving, the talking of the creatures. We look and notice and when we hear and see and move around this submerged galaxy it's kind of like praying. We are offered a spiritual experience described so vividly by Anne-Marie Lindbergh in Gift from the Sea. The sea does not reward those who are too anxious, too greedy or too impatient. To dig for treasures shows not only impatience and greed but lack of faith. Patience, patience, patience is what the sea teaches. Patience and faith. One should lie empty, open, choiceless as a beach waiting for a gift from the sea. We visit the domain of the fish, the dolphin, the ancient sea turtle and the prehistoric pelican. We slow our frantic limbs to a languid fluid movement matching the ebb and flow of the sea. We behold the magnitude of life pouring out around us indifferent to our awareness almost amused by our sudden interest. When we are finished visiting these aquatic neighborhoods and communities ready to resume our above water lives we discover we have practiced our patience and delight and emerge a little more peaceful dripping with awe. For a moment like following really good prayer talk with God we are happy and thankful and realize we did just visit God. And so here is a prayer talk with God. Thank you God for wonders above and wonders below the waves. May we always drip with awe when we visit with you, wherever and whenever that may be. Amen. Please hold the loved ones of these people in your prayers as well. The Reverend Donald W. Morgan led the First Church of Christ in Wethersfield for many years and helped organize the United Church of Christ as it came together in the 1950s. He died on January 28th at the age of 88. Margaret Dickinson was a Christian educator and commissioned minister who served churches in Southbury and Cheshire and as Resource Center Director here at the Connecticut Conference. She died on February 9th at the age of 84. And just this past Sunday, Eleanor Stier, the spouse of the Reverend Kenneth Wade Stier died. She taught at levels ranging from kindergarten to community college in Connecticut and in New Hampshire. She directed the Foster Grandparent Program here in this state. She was 93. In the news this week, a Florida jury last week convicted Michael David Dunn of attempted murder for shooting at four African American teams in an automobile in Jacksonville in November 2012. But that jury failed to reach a verdict on the charge of murdering one of them, 17-year-old Jordan Davis. Conference Minister of the Reverend Kent J. Salati and the Sacred Conversations on Race Ministry team issued a statement today saying in part, as your conference minister and as the Sacred Conversations on Race team, we are reminded too frequently of the ways in which the racial divide in our land separates us in deep and significant ways. The murder of Jordan Davis in Florida and the murders of others in our country that are fueled by racial hatred cause us to rise up and say, no more. You'll find the complete statement on our website at ctucc.org. And Salati welcomed Minister of Faith formation Karen Zeal to last week's Vantage Point, where they looked forward to the upcoming Super Saturday event on March 1st. Make sure to check that video out on our YouTube channel. And if you'd like to go to Super Saturday to hear from Diana Butler Bass and to learn from two of 45 workshops that day, well make sure to register before Friday. It's a long trip from Salisbury to Bridgeport, Connecticut, and the roads simply don't run straight. But when the food ministry at United Congregational Church UCC in Bridgeport needed assistance in the aftermath of hurricane sanding, the people of the Congregational Church of Salisbury UCC helped them to maintain the only food pantry that stayed open after that storm struck the northeast. Since then, the churches have deepened the relationship they founded in that emergency. Salisbury members have helped with food service as well as food collection in Bridgeport. The pastors have exchanged pulpits, and they plan further experiments in mission, service, and worship together. The conferences Give Squared program added a new chapter last August, when seven churches along the Nagatuck River created the Nagatuck Valley Youth Connection. Their three service events to date have involved 40 to 75 young people and adult advisors. This month they visited with residents of the Crestview Senior Housing Facility in Oxford, playing games, and telling stories. Connecticut Conference has been adding new publications pretty rapidly this winter, despite the pressures of the weather. In addition to Vantage Point, which we'll next see on Ash Wednesday, March 5th, the conference released a mobile app for both Apple iOS devices and Google Android smartphones and tablets. The free app offers the current headlines, upcoming events, maps, and of course the audio and video editions of Conferencecast. You can find it by searching for CTUCC in the Apple App Store or Google Play today. We've also announced a new regular devotional publication. Spirited Wednesday will be delivered to email subscribers of the Spirit Calendar as well as posted to our website, Facebook, and Twitter. Instead of being written by Conference staff, we've recruited a large and talented group of writers from around the state to author that publication. Spirited Wednesday's first edition will come out on Wednesday, March 5th, again on Ash Wednesday. Reverend Matt Kreben, senior pastor of the Newtown Congregational Church, writes these words. One UCC laywoman who telephoned me soon after the shootings on December 14th, 2012 commented things like this just should not happen. But Sandy Hook happens every week in America. In fact it happens several times over. Every week in the United States more than 50 of our children and youth die due to gun violence and many dozens more are injured. Most of us just aren't paying attention. That's why I want to invite you, my fellow UCC brothers and sisters, to help one another and our nation to pay attention. Please join me in taking part in the Gun Violence Prevention Sabbath sponsored by Fates United to Prevent Gun Violence, scheduled for the weekend of March 13th through 16th. Commit yourself and your community to pray about, learn about, and act upon an issue that is claiming far too many of our fellow citizens. There are a number of additional stories on our website from the last two weeks, an amazing show sponsored by the Gilead Congregational Church UCC which decisively demonstrated that Hebron has got talent. A minister learned from a long anticipated visit to the Asian Rural Institute in Japan and you can read about discerning a call to spiritual direction. You'll find these stories and all the current headlines at ctucc.org slash news. Register now for Super Saturday, that day of workshops, fellowship and celebration for church members and leaders featuring a keynote address from author Diana Butler Bass. We'll gather with our friends from the Massachusetts Conference on March 1st in Ludlow, Massachusetts. Registration closes on Friday. A workshop on community and church gardens will be held on March 8th in Vernon. A series of webinars on the new resource Children's Ministry and the Way of Jesus begins on March 10th. Stepping Stones takes up the challenges of the pastoral care of youth on March 19th in the Southington. Silver Lakes Maple Sugaring weekend for young people in grades 6 through 8 will run March 21st through 23rd, tapping trees, boiling sap and renewing a sense of the sweetness of God's creation. Stepping Stones holds a workshop on sacred dance on March 25th in Southington. The New England Women's Celebration will be held March 28th through 30th in Portland, Maine. You can register for that at uccwomencelebration.org. The Spring Women's Spirit Retreat of Yoga and Sacred Chant will be at Silver Lake April 4th through 6th. And Spring Action Weekend, which prepares the camp for its summer program, is the weekend of April 25th through the 27th. The Farmington Valley Association and Simply Smiles are teaming up for a mission trip to the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribal Reservation in South Dakota. That trip begins May 3rd. Silver Lake will host an open house for those interested in learning more about its summer program on May 4th. By all means, come then. And also remember to visit silverlakect.org to find out about summer offerings and to register. And mark your calendars now for May 17th, the 4th annual Connecticut Conference Youth Revival to be held this year at Dixwell Avenue, UCC, in New Haven. You can always learn more about what's coming up in the Connecticut Conference by visiting us at ctucc.org slash events. We turn now to the Reverend Tamara Morland, Northwest Central Regional Minister, for her reflection on Jesus' Prayer in the 17th chapter of John. That they may be one as we are one. For more than 100 years, Black History Month has been a time to acknowledge the contributions African Americans have made to our society. This is a sacred time, especially for African Americans, as we celebrate and honor our ancestors who helped to make this grand and diverse quilt known as the United States. I was honored to be invited this past week to the annual day away for women in ministry organized by the Connecticut Women of the United Church of Christ. The theme for this event was, Blessed are the peacemakers, they are called to be made whole. We heard of one woman's life story reflected in the shapes and patterns and colors in her quilt. And we made our own quilt as we pinned pieces of fabric together in our groups. This time away helped me to remember my own role in quilt making. As a child, I was the one assigned to thread needles and cut pieces of scrap cloth for my grandmother and her two sisters, Annie, Leela, and Laura. These sisters who were well up in age in the early 1960s would gather every few weeks to sew, to have some private woman time, to weep, and smoke cigars as they retold family stories and stories of African Americans working and dying for our civil rights. They plotted how they could help relatives back in Georgia and even those here in Connecticut through their churches and local black organizations. They had their own rituals around quilting time. And I felt special because I could be a part of this sacred sisterhood that produced quilts for newborns and for those going off to study, for those who died, and for those embarking on a new life with a new husband or wife that connected them to our family and our roots. The Reverend Laura Bushbaum writes in with sacred threads, quilting, and the spiritual journey, our lives become rich and meaningful when we piece together the joys and sorrows, the questions and answers, the successes and failures, the longing, the people and experiences that have been the colors and shapes of our lives. Out of chaos, we can sometimes make comforting patterns. Out of despair, beauty. Out of longing, new possibility. Out of joy, visual radiance. African Americans are part of this country's quilt, which is not an ordinary quilt. This country is a crazy, jazz-like quilt, holding stories, holding histories of high notes and low notes, all sewn together in varying styles and stitches. The result is a strong yet yielding creation made stronger because of its unique pieces. Jesus prayed that we would be one and that our unity would convince others of his mission. His prayer was in effect a rebuke for those who would seek division among his followers. We all of us are not whole without each other. We are at our best when we are a quilt of rainbow colors, gifts, stories and faith, all woven together for God's use and God's glory. And so here's a prayer for this week. O gracious God, I pray that all of us through the message of Jesus the Christ would be one. And that brings this conference cast to a close. Thanks to Tim and Ann Hughes and to Tamara Morland for our reflections and to GarageBand for our music. Primary funding for conference cast comes from your congregation's gifts to our church's wider mission, basic support, changing lives through the United Church of Christ. This is Eric Anderson, the Minister of Communications and Technology for the Connecticut Conference of the United Church of Christ, praying that your days this week may be filled with the presence, the guidance and the grace of God.


theCUBE presents Dell Technologies World, brought to you by Dell. Hey everyone, and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Dell Technologies World 2022 from the show floor, The Venetian, in Lysley, Las Vegas. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante. We're having a little reunion with our guests that we haven't seen in a couple years. Please welcome back to theCUBE, Doug Schmidt, president of Dell Technologies Services. Alex Boroto joins us as well, the senior vice president of emerging services and technology. Hi guys, it's great to see you in 3D. I know, great to be back. Yes. It's awesome to be back. Isn't it great? Fantastic.  That's exactly right. Being able to see everybody be back in person at these events, and it's great to see everybody. It's like coming back to family. It is, it's been a reunion since Sunday. One of this, obviously, the last two years have been quite challenging for everybody, for customers. Dell is coming off its best year ever in FY22, over 100 billion in revenues, 17% growth year-over-year, astounding growth. The voice of the customer is, as always, strong here at Dell Technologies Bowl. But Doug, talk to us about some of the things that have been going on from a services perspective and how you really stepped in to help customers across industries succeed in the dynamic times we've been living in. Well, yeah, thank you. And you're right, coming off a very great year. And I think, as you can see behind us and in the room here, there's just great solutions for our customers. And that's what it's about, delivering the outcomes. And service is a huge piece of that, of making sure we bring all that together, deliver the outcomes our customers are looking for. If you look at the overall services organization, just to take a step back just a little bit, we are a team of around over 60,000 folks in 170 countries. And look, it's about this lifecycle of services we provide. Everything from consulting to deployment, to our support, managed services, security, education services, residency services, all the way to asset sustainability and recovery so we can get all of the material back in and recycle it. So we have a great suite of services. And it's bringing all that together for the customer again to deliver with the products and the solutions and the software, the outcomes they're looking for. You asked a little bit about, just to kind of double click that, about what our customers really saying, kind of what they're hearing, what we're hearing. I think there's three things, when I think about what they're looking for. One is the trusted advisor. You heard this during Michael's keynote speech, that is key. They're navigating through the digital transformation, hybrid cloud, all of these things, determining what they need to do to deliver their outcomes. And Dell can bring that trusted advisor status to them so we can consult with them, professional services help bring that. The second thing is really around that lifecycle services I talked about, all those different services that we bring. We allow our customers clearly the choice to say what pieces of the services do they need. Now we think that we can bring everything together into a managed solution for them, but if there's certain pieces that they need to just double click on, we can help with that. And then look, the third item that I'm hearing and that we can bring and that we have for them is flexible consumption. They can choose the way they want to consume the technology. You consume it by usage. You can consume by month, by quarter, or if you want the stability of long-term contracts, one, two, three years, we'll do that. So really it's about trusted advisor and choice to help them deliver their outcomes. So a lot changed during the isolation economy, right? You guys obviously had to support new initiatives. First of all, budgets got squeezed in 2020. They boomed back, you know. So they sort of slingshot it. Real focus on obviously client solutions, remote work, endpoint security, identity access, VDI. Now in the post-isolation economy, it's like okay, some of the stuff at HQ maybe needs to be updated. Maybe we're rethinking the network. So what are you hearing from customers? Where are they in their digital transformations, Alex? You know, what's hot? Yeah, so we actually recently created an emerging services group. And the reason for that is exactly what you're learning today. So we actually tucked in that group everything in this emerging. So Apex, Telco, Edge, data management, all the things our customers are asking for and we're incubating new solutions, new services to meet their needs. And all that is housed in one unit. And we're thinking about the product management, the technology that goes with it. And we're working partnership with our customers to actually build and develop solutions that they're looking for. Yeah, there was no as-of-service, really.  Now it's becoming much more mainstream.  You know, but that's a whole new mindset. What else is changing in the business that you guys see? Well yeah, I think that's what comes back to what we saw. First of all, we listen to the customers follow what their needs are. And you're right, as far as the as-of-service, I think it's back to that choice, right? If they want to purchase or consume as flexible or as needed, we'll do that. They want the contracts, the standard CapEx model. We'll do that as well. Look, there's three things. Professional services is really changing as well. We're seeing the needs again for going in and being able to deliver the services to customers, but also manage that in a lot of cases. They're asking us to take the workloads from them so that they can go and change their transformation and their digitalization is one of the things that we're clearly hearing. And I know you're hearing the second one, security. I mean, that is top of mind for everyone. And we have launched a lot of services around this. Some of those like MDR, our managed detection response, our cyber vault, as well as our APEC cyber recovery services as well that we've announced here. So, securities number two. And then the third one is this sustainability. Again, very important for us and our customers is we have a 2030 goal around this, as I'm sure you've heard. But more importantly, that's something, I know my team and I and everyone at Dell, that's a great personal feeling too. When you're getting up and you're doing something that you know's right, really just doing it to help the customers as well is just an extra added benefit. So those would be the three things. Professional service is changing, doing more and more of the managed, take workloads off. Two is the security and the third is the sustainability, clearly. We talked with JJ Davis yesterday. We're talking a lot about ESG and how a tremendous percentage of RFPs come in wanting to know what is Dell Technologies doing from an environmental and social governance perspective that it's really your customers wanting to work with companies like Dell who have a focused, clear agenda on ESG. One thing that I would be curious when you talk about the increase in managed services, the great resignation, right? We've all, that's been happening now for a couple years. It's probably going to persist for a while. Customers, suddenly, you know, labor shortages and the supply chain issues. How have you helped organizations deal with some of the challenges that they're going through from a labor perspective? Is that why one of the reasons for managed services is that we're seeing an increase there? Yeah, you know, I'm sure that can be and I wouldn't doubt that. You mean in terms of our customers wanting more and more of the managed and the professional. Yeah, I think that is a piece of it. But I also think part of that is that speed matters and customers are looking for the additional assistance to take things off that they may have traditionally done so that they can really get this transformation that's hybrid cloud, getting things moving very, very quickly. There's just so much to be done in terms of data management and bringing information to their end user customers. And they want to spend more time doing that. And so I'm hearing that more, you are right, there's absolutely those times where we have a residency service and that has been growing very, very fast and that tends to be why they asked for it is because people have either left or are leaving. Alex, Doug really kind of alluded to an area that I want to probe a little bit. And I was talking to Jen Felch recently, she's going to be on soon. And you mentioned security, Doug, as the top initiative, clearly. The distance between number two is widening. But number two is cloud migration. Now, I asked Jen about that because internally, Dell has its own cloud. And I said, how do you interpret that?  She goes, well, I would translate that into modernization. So we're essentially building our own cloud is how I interpreted it. So my question to you is, are you seeing that with customers? How closely do you work with your own IT to take those learnings to your customers? And what does modernization actually mean to your customers? Yeah, that's a great question. It's actually the essence of why we're here, right? Talking to our customers and showcasing what we do within services, what we do within IT. Jen and I talk very often about hair roll map, hour roll map, and we want to showcase that to our customers because it's a proof point. It's a proof point of how they can do the transformation on their own. We have a whole slew of products from a service standpoint. They're tied with what Jen is doing as well. And that's what we bring to market. So whether that's on APEX, that we announced right here two days ago the Cyber Recovery Services available now. That's working very closely with our IT counterparts. And we have a whole slew of roll map with high performance computing to be announced soon and machine learning operations. All that is to meet the customer needs and what they're asking for. And if you look at the emergence of needs from a customer standpoint, it goes in a multitude of uses, right? We have Telco customers. They have very specific needs and we're looking to meet those needs. We have the traditional customers, which may be going at a slower speed in their adoption of the cloud. We're there to help them. And we're all about the hybrid cloud. Hybrid cloud is 100% of our strategy. So whether you want to go cloud based, whether you want to be on-prem or you want to be hybrid, we're there to solve your needs. What's the partner's story in terms of delivering services? We know that the Dell Technologies partner ecosystem is massive. We know how important partners are to the growth. I think I saw 59 billion in revenue came through the channel last year alone. How do you enable partners to deliver some of those key services that you talked about? To leverage the partners for the on the broader ecosystem for that. Yes, well, you're right. We do have a very large partner network and we're very flexible on that again. It sounds like we are flexible on everything. And we are, by the way, for our customers and our partners. Because look, it is about delivering first of all, how our customers want their service. I do like this idea. And we talk about modernization, transformation, digitalization, all these things are kind of the same thing about going in and looking about how we're improving the overall infrastructure and these outcomes. And to that end, we work with the customer on what they're looking for. And then we'll either do a couple of things with working with the partners. Either we take crime and we'll take that and take the pieces that they can deliver and we can deliver together. But again, it's with the customer in mind of how they want to do that, working with the customer. We do have code delivery services as well. And look, we're very open with our partners about if they want to be prime and then leverage those same lifecycle services we have. What this is about is about getting this transformation and this technology and these solutions into the hands of the customers in the best way possible. So I could white label, as a partner, can I white label your services? We don't have the white label. We do have code delivery. Okay, so that's what I could do. Okay, I'm bringing this value, Dell's bringing that value, but you're visible to the customer. Which is, I presume, a benefit to the customer. Correct, correct. And the trust that you've built on.  How are client, this is kind of interesting thought I had the other day, how are client services changing? Do you see the point where, I mean maybe you're doing it already, it's just full, manage all my client devices and just take that away from me and Dell, you take care of that and I'll pay you a monthly fee. Well yeah, we are seeing that and one of the things that they like the best about us doing that management is bringing kind of the AI and the BI to it that we can with our support assist and all of the data that we get back, we're actually able to help manage those environments much better in terms of an end to end, keep things updated, upgraded, manage it, but more importantly what we see when we do have those client managed services end to end, the customers are actually coming back and asking us to help improve their operational performance and what I mean by that is all of a sudden you'll see things where the trouble tickets are coming in, because we're seeing that and we're actually going back in with that information to help alleviate or improve their operational processes so that they're able to function and spend more time on their business outcomes. And reduce that complexity, sorry Dave. No worries, how about the tip of the spear, the consulting piece, what are you seeing are we going through, as we modernize, are we going through another wave of application rationalization, people trying to figure out their digital transformation, what to double down on, what to retire, what the sun set, what's that? I think it's similar to the managed service conversation we just had, it's really pivoting to technology. Even in the services space, it was all about our physical footprint five, six years ago, our physical capabilities, the number of people, the depots, the center that we had. Right now our customers and even internally what we're pivoting towards is technology. They want to know how are you going to do to solve our problems whether it's consulting or managed services, using technology. Precisely to the point that Doug was making because they want insights, value add from the services we provide, not just consult for me, not just manage my service but provide me value added service on top of that so that I can actually differentiate my services, my solutions, and that's what we're building, that's what delivering, really leveraging technology. You look at the number of software engineers we have, data scientists, the algorithms we're building now, inside services, it's really become a technology hub whereas it used to be a physical hub. I'm just going to, oh I'm sorry, please.  Where it's really headed is, if you look at this, it's going to become this outcome-based services. When I talk about outcome-based services, it's not managing just the IT infrastructure that you have to do. You have to modernize and transform, however you want to say that, the customers. But in addition to that, they're looking for us to take that information and help change their business models as well with the data and the insights we're getting back. They're operating model. Absolutely. But changing that in the last couple of years and pivoting over and over again to survive and to thrive, talk to us, Alex, about the emerging services and how you've maybe a particular customer example of how you've helped an organization radically transform in the last two years to be competitive and to be thriving in this new economy in which we're living. Yeah, I think a great example is Dish. If you look at Dish, they're actually launching one of the first open-rand networks, right? Leveraging the power of 5G and we're working very closely with them on the services and solutioning to enable them to deliver that service to their customers. And that's a new area for us, a new area for them. So we're actually working together and innovating and coming up with solutions and bringing those to the market. It's a great example. A lot of collaboration, guys. Thank you so much for joining us. Great to see you back in person again after a couple of years, probably three. We appreciate your time and your insights. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having us. For Dave Vellante, Lisa Martin here. You're watching theCUBE live from Dell Technologies World 2022. Stick around and we'll be right back with our next guest.


No, Cat, no! Get our markers, okay? And we draw, MPS, what comes to our mind? Media, so camera apps, and then we're filming and someone doing something crazy. And we make pictures, Ross, pictures, and we put them on the screen. You're just reinventing television, Cat. Oh, Ross, you run away for at least an hour and we're looking for you the whole time, but you don't tell anyone, this isn't a joke. For only you know that you're missing and I know that you're missing and I'd be pure panicked and you'd be gone and you wouldn't know what's going on.  So you're trying to give David and Kenneth a heart attack, are you? Go in, we go in naked with, no, right? We drop a bomb into DCU. What? Bombing? Cat, they're thinking we're safe, think! But they're dead.


The joke is on the narcissist once you recognize this The narcissist does everything they can To convince you that you are the problem They do everything they can to convince other people That something is wrong with you and that you need to be dealt with There is some type of action that needs to be taken to solve a problem But there is something that they don't take into account Something that is completely obvious and when you recognize this The joke is on the narcissist Because while they're trying to make you look like the problem It backfires on them It has the opposite and undesirable effect what was intended It rebounds it comes back to them Because before they came into your life You were doing just fine.   They're going to make your life better They're going to add value to your life But the narcissist only takes value away The narcissist always leaves with more than they came in with While the victim always leaves with less than they once had The narcissist profits from the relationship While the victim leaves with a loss They leave with detriment Disadvantage and deprivation from failure While the narcissist leaves with all of these perks That they have received from being involved with you They leave with a spring in their step They leave with more confidence They leave with your money and possessions They leave with all of this stuff And when they leave They're still expecting something more from you Because they're very entitled They feel entitled to privileges and special treatment They believe that you owe them a living They believe that they deserve to be paid Without working hard for it They expect you to do all of the work Which is why you will find yourself sticking deeper and deeper into emotional Debt They will leave you in a state of confusion Where you don't know what just happened While they leave with confidence and self assurance Because they managed to trick you into following their narrative A narrative that was against you Even while you were doing everything for them So naturally you're going to be confused But when you recognise this The joke is on the narcissist Because if you are such a problem If you are so useless and ineffective Why did you leave with a loss? And why did they leave with more than they came in with? Of course the narcissist answer to this question Is that it's a result of your poor judgement It's due to a fault or mistake that you have made They will blame you But you never had this problem before You were fine before you met them Your life wasn't perfect But you were doing okay But now you have all of these things that you're dealing with Which they're holding you accountable for But when you really dissect it and look at it for what it is It doesn't make any sense Because if they were really the ones who are hard done by They would be the ones leaving with a loss It wouldn't have had such a detrimental effect on you But this is what narcissistic abuse is characterised by Failure, loss and disappointment That's how you know that you've been exploited Because you've lost something in the process Something has been taken away from you And the narcissist has gained something from being with you But when all is said and done The narcissist doesn't feel any need to return the favour They don't feel any need to do something similar in return to you Because they're never satisfied They have these insatiable desires that can never be fulfilled And they're very arrogant and entitled They believe they've done more for you than what they've actually done Which is why they will often tell people that they try to help you Because they don't want to look bad They have to make it look like they've provided something of value to you So that it justifies what they're doing But the reality is that you have taken a loss You have experienced failure and disappointment And that is something that they can't hide Because that's something you have to experience For them to gain control of you If that wasn't going to happen There would be no purpose in them being with you They had to gain something But this is how you know what you were dealing with Because in a normal relationship People don't take such a big loss And they also don't leave with so much more than they can win with That isn't normal Because a relationship should be 50-50 It should be give and take But when you're doing all of the work When you're giving everything you have And you're receiving nothing in return Of course you're going to take a loss Because you're dealing with someone who is self-absorbed and lacks empathy You're dealing with someone who is arrogant and entitled Someone who doesn't believe they should have to give anything to you in return Which is the basis of narcissism This is the whole idea This is the justification and reasoning behind it Because if there was reciprocation There would be no problem The reason why the relationship failed Is because there's just one person doing all the work While the other person is sitting back And eating the fruits of their labour They're enjoying the profits and gains as a result of your hard work But they didn't do anything to earn it They made your life worse They affected your health They damaged you financially And when you really recognise this The joke is on the narcissist Because these are the signs you need to be looking for That's how you know that you have been exploited And when the relationship is over And the narcissist is still expecting something from you It's just proven this point even more It's confirming this concept Because a normal person would recognise everything you've done for them They would see it And they would have a cut-off point They would know when to let off the gas But narcissists don't have that They don't have this filter Because nothing you do for them is ever enough Narcissism is characterised by unfulfillment So when all is said and done They're not going to recognise everything you've done for them They're not going to want to hear about it All they're going to be concerned with Is what you're going to do next Because they're only concerned with their feelings In their minds their feelings are facts And if they feel dissatisfied in their minds you must be the cause of that You're responsible for it It's something that you have to attend to Because they never learnt how to deal with these feelings on their own They always had enablers to encourage their self-destructive behaviour They always had people to make it easier For them to do things that they shouldn't do So in their minds there's no reason for them to stop Because no one's telling them they're wrong No one's opposing their false narrative Because instead of acknowledging and appreciating everything you've done They've made it out to be a problem As though it's had an adverse effect on their life When in reality they have been profiting from it It's put them in a better position But as long as they play the victim It acts as a means for them to keep getting what they want That's why they do it Because even though you may have figured them out They don't want it to stop Because deep down they do recognise the value of what you're giving to them They just didn't want to acknowledge it to you Because then that would mean that you'd have to stop And then they'd have to repay you for your efforts Which isn't going to be of any benefit to them Because they're the weak ones They don't have anything to bring to you But this is how you know what you were dealing with Those are the signs that you were dealing with a narcissist And no matter how convincing they may be When you recognise this The joke is on them Their false claims and accusations become a source of amusement Because it doesn't make any sense When you look back And estimate the worth of what you did for them And then you look at what they did for you It doesn't add up It doesn't make any sense But this is what they don't want you to see They want you to forget about that And focus on the present That's how they keep you on their never-ending hamster wheel Trying to please them When you're involved with a narcissist They will always leave you feeling like you haven't done enough You need to do more Or there's something wrong with what you did This is how the game is played And the game never ends They just find new participants They find new enablers They find new sources of supply But one thing they never do is take accountability They never look at their own actions They never look at what they're doing Or what they could have done better Because otherwise their disorder wouldn't be able to function They need to have a heightened sense of self-importance And entitlement to special treatment They are driven by motives for grandiosity, esteem, entitlement and power And to get that they need to dominate you They need to tell you what to do They need to hold you to their expectations But they will never let you hold them to your expectations You're not meant to expect anything from them Because in their minds they're the authority They're superior to you So you're meant to give everything you have And expect nothing in return While they play the victim While they act like everything you're doing is not enough Or something is wrong with it Because that is how they keep the wheels turning That is how they cause you to spend an unnecessary amount of effort To do something that has been done already But there will be no acknowledgement of your efforts There will be no gratitude or appreciation Because they feel entitled to it They see you as an object that exists to serve them And they already know that they don't deserve it So they can't acknowledge something they know they don't deserve They have to downplay it They have to make it appear less important than it really is But if you take it away That's when you will see just how important it is to them But they never gave you recognition They never acknowledged the existence of it Until it ceased to exist Because that's how they kept the wheels turning By making you seek their approval and validation Because underneath it all You just wanted to do the right thing You wanted to make them happy You wanted to make things right But the narcissist was just using you They were never on your side And that is why When all is said and done It's so easy for them to turn against you Because they were never with you anyway They were just there for what they could gain from you Which is why when it's all over They're still expecting some form of compensation Because that's the only reason why they were with you Narcissists know how to hide their true intentions and motives But once you stop giving them whatever it is they want from you That's when you will see who they really are Because they will either go to extremes to get it from you Or they will try to get it from somewhere else But when this happens It should only reveal to you that it was what they wanted all along It was their only reason for being with you They never valued you as a person They never had your best interest in mind They were just using you for their own selfish needs Which is why when the relationship is over You begin to see just how selfish they really are All they care about is what they want And they don't care about how it affects you Because you were never a concern to them They just pretended like you were So that they could get what they want from you They understand human nature They know you don't want to be around someone Who is just using you for what you have So they pretend that they want a relationship They act like they value all of these indispensable qualities that you have But when the relationship ends that's not what they miss Which is how it's so easy for them to move on to another situation Or to make demands that have expectations for what they want from you Whatever you lost Is what the narcissist wanted you to lose Whatever they gained from you Is what they wanted to gain from you Whatever they're receiving from someone else Is what you eventually refuse to provide to them They may try to gas like you But the signs are there The joke is on the narcissist once you recognise this Thank you for watching I hope this video resonated with you Please like Comment Share If you would like to donate My PayPal link Is in the video description Coaching Choirs You can email me at CoachingAtNarcSurvivor.uk Thank you for watching And I'll talk to you soon


The disagreement comes in what they understand God to have promised. Now the objector protests, God has promised to save me because I'm in the covenant. God has promised to save me. I'm a son of Abraham. God has promised to save me. I've been circumcised. I have the law. God has promised to save me. Even if I should be utterly faithless to God, God will be faithful to the promises that He made to Abraham and I will be saved. Let me ask you, is that what God has promised? No. That's what the Jewish objector has come to believe that God has promised. That God never promised to save all of Abraham's descendants. He certainly never promised to do so apart from faith in Jesus Christ.