Welcome to the Home Lab show, episode 50. Can you believe we've done 50 episodes today? No, no, I don't think that's true. I think that must be like a miscount or something. Technically 51, because we started at zero, so this becomes, we did that episode zero just so we could have a description of what the podcast was about. That was kind of fun, but still 50 podcast episodes, because episode zero is a description one, so. Yeah, that's just a preview of what's to come, and then episode one was the real beginning, and then now we're at 50. Yep, and today's topic is going to be participating and giving back to open source, and I've already seen someone comment about something we'll be addressing, is what if someone uses my code to make money or do something stupid? And that's worth mentioning, it is the only real downside, but I don't, it's one of those, the good way, way, way outweighs the bad that can come from this, so it's not something I think is the concern or a reason to be a deterrent, but we'll give you little details in a moment. First thing we need to do is thank a sponsor of the show who also loves open source, and that's Linode. So many of the projects we've talked about in here are very relevant to Linode, and Linode is a great place to run a lot of these projects, but see because I'm working on a couple of them that you'll want some public IPs for to set some things up, and Jay has lots of projects he's talked about as well on his YouTube channel, and Linode just makes it easy to spin these things up. They use a lot of open source tooling to integrate with this, and that is a, real plus on our side, the fact that they're very open source friendly, and it just lines up with today's show topic of giving back to open source, and they've been sponsoring the show since the beginning, and if you've listened to this, you're listening to it directly from Linode because you're downloading this off of the podcast. We've been hosting it on Linode servers using a bunch of open source Linux software as well, and I don't know if there's ever, someone did ask us, and maybe sometime we'll talk a little more about it, but it's pretty much just a WordPress instance. There's nothing too special about hosting podcasts. It's just files on WordPress, in case you're wondering the simplicity of our backend on there, but Linode made it easy to spin all that up. We thank them as a sponsor. If you're interested in signing up for Linode, we do have an offer code of linode.com slash homelabshow, and that'll get you started with Linode, and thank you again for them being a sponsor. Yep, we appreciate it. All right. Where do we want to start? I think one place that we can start is why somebody might want to give back open source, right? Because what's in it for me? I get all this stuff for free. Why should I do anything else? Why should I give back? Why don't I just keep it all to myself and just go about my business? We can talk about the ways that I think that it benefits people to give back in reasons why they might want to consider that. And then we can talk about individual reasons and things after that. Yep. Oh, and let me preface this entire talk. You do not need to know how to code to contribute. That's not where this is going. Great if you can, not a requirement. You can absolutely be as bad at coding as I am and contribute open source. That is absolutely true. Yeah, we'll get into some easy ways there. I have a whole video about it. I don't know how old it is, so I don't know how well it aged. But some of the reasons why you might give back. I think one of the reasons could be that a lot of the software that you're running, you didn't pay for it. So I mean, the alternative could have been you could be paying thousands of dollars for a license for something else that you could be using, but you're not. So you could look at it as cost savings and giving a little bit of that money back by just making a donation that always helps. But that's the easiest thing. We're not going to focus on that part of it. That's just a very easy thing that you can do to give back or in one of the reasons why you might want to give back. But I think a really good reason besides the fact that you're helping people and doing a good thing, because let's be honest, that's really what it's all about. But that's also easy. If we take that out of the equation, giving back to open source is one of the best ways to hone your experiences and your skill set because it gives you a chance to work with real people. If you don't already have a job in IT, maybe you're trying to get one and you're just kind of starting out. It gives you some experience contributing to projects that might otherwise be limited just to people that work already in the industry. And you might already have that experience when you do get your job if you are going into a job in IT. You know, there's a lot of community building that goes around when you get involved in open source. And having some involvement on that, if you're going into even any kind of adjacent tech field, like not necessarily being a developer, but seeing that you contributed and worked with open source projects and worked with projects in general, is something that always, from the career standpoint, can look really good on your resume. It also really gives you a better feeling for the product itself. And honestly, even small projects, I've frequently, sometimes they buy me a coffee or whatever, I look up the developers and see what they may take as a donation. And sometimes they are just looking for a thank you because they think it's cool that someone's using their code. From that standpoint, a lot of developers are like that. They're like, cool, someone's using the thing I made and they're just excited to hear from you. Thinking them is an easy way to start that engagement. So many things start with that simple hello world encoding. And in real life, it's just saying hello. Yeah, it's actually saying hello for real. And to kind of piggyback off of that, with my experience as a hiring manager and doing actual management, I was a director of operations for some time before going out on my own, sometimes people ask me for career advice. And one of the things I might be asked is, well, how do I create a portfolio for getting a job? And then I ask, do you have a GitHub account? They'll say, yeah, why do you ask? Well, you have a portfolio then, right there, done. Check that box, you're all set. Because if you have a public GitHub account and you actually use it and have some good stuff in there and show some activity going on, in my opinion, I'm more interested in that than pretty much anything else because I'm seeing not only how you get along with other people, I'm also able to look at your code. And I'm not looking for code quality necessarily, but I might be looking for code quality over time. For example, if I'm looking at some scripts and I'm thinking that this could be adjusted better, that could be adjusted better, I don't really care because it's not going to make a decision as far as whether or not I'm going to hire that person. But what I will see for someone that's passionate is that if I go back to earlier commits and then work my way up to current, I will see that code quality is improving over time, which tells me that that person genuinely cares. And the mistakes don't matter, we all make mistakes. But we have portfolios out there and a lot of people, they don't think about GitHub as that, but it really is especially in tech. I mean, that's like the number one thing that I want to see when I'm looking at how someone works with technology. You know, one of the people I hired years ago for my retail store computer technician, he quickly pivoted because he mentioned having GitHub and didn't mention much about it because it wasn't the position he was hiring just literally to fix computers at my office, retail computers. And I looked up his GitHub that he'd had on there and I'm like, whoa, man, he had done some seriously good work. And it was like, so you didn't really mention much about your GitHub was because I'm just going to come here to fix computers. That's just a side hobby I do. Young guy. And by the way, currently he works for Blizzard Entertainment. He's a game developer. He's extremely talented. And I actually ended up hiring him first as a computer tech, but later we leveraged his coding skills and really he helped me fix a lot of things that we had that ran our early days of inventory management system and point sale system that we used in the early days. It's the code, he fixed up a lot of messy code and it was kind of cool because I occasionally still engage with him, but that alone, once I seen him, like he's done some really intense levels of work and his goal really was ultimately be a game designer.  He's like, no, no, I'm going to go through all the complicated math to understand particle physics and everything in a game. He used to write really cool, clever containerized physics games I would almost call him. He had ones where he would shift the gravity in games and make all the particles move in different directions. He said his hobby stuff was just cool to watch visually. And that's passion right there. That is the definition of passion. And that to me is more important than anything else on the resume because I'm seeing how you feel about it. I've literally had coworkers say things like, well, I can't stand IT. I only work in it because, well, the money's good. So I'll just go along with it. I'm like, who says that? Like, that's not a very marketable person right there. Like, you should at least try to get into a job that you enjoy. Yes, I know the money could be great, but it's more about going to work every day, being passionate about what you do and doing it because you like it, not just because you hate it and you just want that paycheck.  There's no shortage of those. There's certainly not. So, yeah, go ahead. Oh, I would say, go ahead what you're going to say there. I was going to say before we get off of the GitHub topic, I want to mention why I fixate on that so much, not just because of how valuable it is to the hiring process, but one of my biggest pet peeves in IT education, I don't know if it's changed recently, but at least when I was coming up, version control was not mentioned in anything. Like, we had software engineers that have graduated and gone through all the classes, got great grades, and they've never used Git ever. Like, the books never mentioned it. The classes never go over it.  And that's also the reason why my Ansible series, for example, throughout the series, even though it's not a Git tutorial series, I'm having people use Git while they're learning, because that way they learn both at the same time. So, yeah, Git, in general, version control is definitely a very important thing to learn. And that lends itself well to giving back to open source because when you learn how to do a pull request, when you notice a problem, then you can help fix that problem. And I think that's obviously another segue into a reason why some people might want to give back. Sometimes it's selfish. We do this mainly because, at least I hope, we want to give back or do the right thing, but not always. Let's be honest, right? How many times have you heard of somebody that notices a bug that just drives them crazy in some software? But it's not a priority bug because crashes and things like that, that's a priority. But this bug in particular drives someone nuts and they just fix it. They just put in a pull request because they just can't be bothered with this bug anymore. And then everybody benefits because they decided to go in and fix it. Now, obviously, you have to know code in order to do that, not everybody does. The moral of today's episode is you don't have to code to give back, but if you do know how to do that, then if something bothers you and you know how to fix it, why don't you go ahead and try and fix it? Absolutely. Now, as we said, no coding necessary, but maybe let's give it into a few other reasons for giving back. You get all this cool software and you want to engage with the community a little better. What are the other benefits that come from? And it can be as simple as just posting in the forums, is helping get more people involved in a project or answering some questions because you've already been there, you've already set this tool up. You know, even for myself, I'm not a code contributor in any way to PF sense, but I am someone who's definitely taken the time to answer people's questions and post in forums and of course make lots of tutorial videos to cover how a lot of things work because there's a lot of basic setup and it's daunting to start the project. But by doing that, we're increasing the community and number of people involved in a project and right away, you just start making some friends and I've actually got to meet a lot of different people through the project that are really cool people that are kernel developers and everything else. And it just becomes this whole back and forth cycle. Like I'm not someone who knows how to write some of the kernel code, but them seeing how I use it, seeing how I answer questions, got me in communication with some of these people and it lets us think deeper again about a lot of these things. It's just part of the other reason to contribute. And by the way, I mentioned in the beginning, I am bad at coding. It's almost like a public service that I don't write some of this code because at one point in time was in charge of developers and I was very honest when I hired them. If you find a lot of broken, crazy code, I know I did it. You don't even have to ask who did it. That's why I hired you. You're just going to fix it. No, that makes a good sense. So I just want to mention, you know, real quick, for those watching, if I'm just looking over my shoulder and doing this, it's because I, my desktop is going crazy right now. I don't even know why. So if you can hear a fan in the background, I don't know why maybe a render is ticking too long. But hopefully no one's able to hear it through the microphone. It's kind of loud right now. But yeah, anyway, getting back to the point, that's a great point as well. And one thing about giving back is it can be very simple. Like I, for example, have put in a few pull requests to CrunchBang++, which is a distribution of Linux that I think really needs more attention it's not for beginners, in my opinion, but it's so great. It's just so lightweight and it works well. So a long time ago, I don't even know how many years ago, I was just going through a default installation and I noticed some of the files had some typos in it, literally. All I did was I submitted some, I don't remember what it was, but I submitted some pull requests just to fix typos. That's it. I mean, it took me five minutes and I was done. I noticed a typo, okay, fine. Now is the time to practice doing a pull request and put that in there and help them out. I didn't need to know how to code. All it was, was literally a typo in a comment in a bash file. So nobody cares because of, you know, the bash script works fine, but I see, I saw a typo, you know, I have a few minutes. Let me go ahead and try to fix that because that's super easy to do. And obviously another one is documentation. A lot of people don't really think about that, but it's really important. Documentation is great. If you know how to write, you have good writing skills or you want to get good writing skills, do some documentation, write up some documentation on how to do things, start a blog and just tell people about like how to, how to do a particular function or just, you know, go to the actual documentation pages for a project and that, and just improve it. And this can really serve two purposes. By taking the time to put the documentation together for this, you know, start your own blog and document your system, how you set it up, you know, you redact anything that would be proprietary secret, but go through those configuration steps, how you configured a particular piece of software. It can serve as one, documentation for you to reference later if you have to rebuild it, two, you can now help others in the community use this software of how to set this up, and three, you can start then engaging at some point if this becomes a popular topic or something you really enjoy doing, reach out.  And if you already have them, you'll find yourself in good company going, oh wait, can we use yours? You'd like to contribute them. We would love to give you access to contribute to tutorials of how to set up our software. This is another way you can start engaging with the community and helping out. And it's kind of cool just getting involved in some of these and kind of a little bit back on the job topic. I've known a few people, this is literally how they became employed. Matter of fact, more recent story is going to be someone like Christian McDonald who was a code contributor to the WireGuard plugin. He now works for PFSense. They're like, hey, your code's really good. Can we just hire you? And he's like, I guess. So I don't know exactly if that's how the interview went. I'm not part of that. I just think, I just know he went from in person contributing code to, hi, I work for Nutgate now. So So he's surprised that I'm pretty sure one of the top developers with Ansible kind of started that way, if I'm not mistaken. I can't remember his name, but he's, he was at least, I don't know if he is now very common in the forums, just posting all the time, answering a lot of questions, always really nice. And I asked him one time, this is why I really wish I could remember his name, how he got started. And that's how it got started. He started contributing to Ansible and kept doing it and doing it and doing it and eventually started getting paid for it. That's not a promise that anyone's going to get paid, but it could happen. If nothing else, it'll give you a skill set you could use in an actual job. Yeah. And it also gave you a deeper understanding of the project because when you start taking ownership that you're going to post something publicly, there's this immediate bashfulness of, oh man, I got to be right. And you're, you're not wrong to think that way because you're, as someone who makes a lot of YouTube content and Jake, you can pack me up on this. You're never as wrong as when you're wrong on the internet. Because boy, you say something wrong, everyone has something to say about what you said that's wrong. Oh my gosh. And sometimes I think my, ooh, wow, I'm having a lot of errors on my computer. I think my power supply is that anyway. Oh, well, Jay turns off his computer. Incident. Good news is not the one he's recording on. But this is one of those things, like you getting into it and writing all this, there's always that risk that you might be wrong. That's, that's something that takes time to learn and get better at. But this is what happens. You really start focusing on it. You read further. I do this for any of my videos I make, because obviously I go through numerous scenarios. I'll double check it, even if it's something I already know how to do, I'll go one more time and kind of review it in my head or reread through the documentation. It kind of forces you to get better at a project. And I think this is really great from the learning experience, because you put so much effort into perfecting it before you'll document something that you just become almost like a subject matter expert, even if it's only for that brief period of time when you're documenting it. But this is actually a great thing because you hyper focus on it. You really put the time and effort into it. You've helped the community out. You've helped yourself out by gaining a deeper understanding in a project. And at the same time that, you know, if you ever have to reference it again, because it's something you set up, you turn on auto update and it works beautifully and you never have to rebuild it. That's great until two years from now and you've got to redo it.  Oh, that's right. Good news is I made all the tutorials on how to do this. And yes, I have watched my own tutorials and so is my staff. So I'm going to mention another way to give back to open source that is extremely easy and assuming that you have a relatively decent internet provider, this might even be the easiest way to give back.  It doesn't come to your mind first and that is seeding your ISO files longer than you need to. So for example, and also you could just argue that BitTorrent in general can help. And here's why because server bandwidth bills are expensive. So if you think about it, if you have a Linux distribution or a virtualization host that is free to download and that ISO could be, you know, a gig or more times however many people are downloading it, that's huge. I mean, that's a lot of bandwidth. But if you use BitTorrent instead, then that's better. And then also if you leave BitTorrent seeding longer, assuming that you have no bandwidth cap, because if you do, you might not want to do this. Yeah. But if you don't, then you could just leave that seeding for a while and kind of, you know, help other people download it because you're giving some of your bandwidth back to them. And then by using BitTorrent, even if you don't give back, even if you're just downloading things by BitTorrent, if you can, then that's less data that's being pulled off the file servers. So that actually can give the administrators a break and can also lower the bandwidth bill. I would argue that if everybody who can use BitTorrent downloads their ISOs through BitTorrent, then that would be monumental when it comes to bandwidth savings if enough people did it. You know, this is something that I've done as well when I, you know, I frequently wrap stuff off the Torrent and if it's a distribution, I also, there's, there's been times in the cybersecurity community, DEF CON has files to host and stuff like that. And I don't have bandwidth caps at some places. So I'll go ahead and let it, go ahead and upload and let it equivalently, at least as much as I download at that minimum, I'll do that or at least double it before I never shut it down.  So we can turn it on for that. So. Yep. Absolutely. Now, so there's so many ways to give back. I'm trying to think of all the different ways to do that. Now, one of which is to just be active in the forums and help people out.  But if that's you, that may not be the best thing for you to do. But if you're, you know, reasonably, you know, extroverted, I should say, then helping out in the forums might actually be a great thing to do because you could help people out with their, you know, things that they got going on.  So that's really a great deal. If you can't do that as well. You know, you don't really have knowledge for that.  And if you see someone else going through the same thing, you could just try and help them out. And that overall helps the community grow and build. And if you have a, you know, a great personality, you know, you're pretty easy going, then you could actually shift the entire culture of a, of a community that might not always be the nicest community. Because let's be honest, we've seen some communities out there that without naming any, in particular, that we're kind of afraid to post messages, messages on because we're probably going to get roasted. But that aside, if you become the change that you want to see, and how people do this, and making the communities less toxic, could actually get a big benefit as well. Yes. Yeah, that's the, for sure. All right. The next, I see a couple people meeting the audience about, it'll be fine in the podcast recording. It's must be something on YouTube because we can hear each other. All right. One of the other things that we need to talk about though is bug reporting and not just complaining. Now, bugs that you can't repeat and document probably aren't going to get solved. And proper bug reporting is a absolute crucial role or especially when you deal with anything that's going to be more related to hardware. And for example, TrueNAS, I've mentioned this before, making sure that you, if you have a hardware problem like a network card that doesn't perform properly, a minor problem with a controller card or a scenario introduced when you use a certain combination of processor with certain memory, whatever those things are, the developers who are writing software that goes on hardware don't necessarily have access to as wide a variety of machines. Now that's going to change how much access they have is going to scale with how big the project is, but especially smaller projects, but even big ones. TrueNAS, it's not like the developers go, Oh, I have one of every network card ever made. Let me set a system up with one of every network card. It's also kind of a big task to do things like that. Therefore, which really helpful to developers going, Hey, I have a Chelsea IO, this exact model card, and I'm not getting the right performance out of it, or I have an Intel DA520 and it works on the 510, or I don't think there's 510, it works on one model, the Intel card doesn't work on my DA520, whatever those details are, as you can submit them to your bug report and say, Hey, when I try this card, it works, this card doesn't in this scenario. This is really helpful to developers because then they're going to prompt you back going, Oh, that's interesting.  Maybe a piece of dump that comes out of the memory that would help them narrow down where the problems are, where those edge cases are? I really appreciate that, like Steve Gibson, submit GRP, who's coding and assembly language for Spinrite, he spends a lot of time in his forums having people test things and give him the scenarios where they've had repeated problems because he's found some other boards where they didn't follow certain specs on the way the controllers talk that was causing some problems with Spinrite not to work. This is that really absolute how the system works to get a developer to understand your problem. You can't just say, doesn't work on my system, you have to get detailed, you have to make a repeatable problem. You have to show that you put some effort on your part and this is where I've kind of coached people on why they've not gotten responses. Someone had a problem they were experienced with TrueNAS and they started DMing me and I said, I don't do support over Twitter and they're like, well, I didn't get any support in the forums. I said, where's your link? They sent me a link. They basically rambled on for like four paragraphs and I'm not even sure what the question was and I told them that. I said, I don't think anyone has time to read four paragraphs. I think you have a question about a hard drive but even I don't have time to read just how much writing it is. What's the concise thing and what is the repeatable problem you're having so we can fix it? And you narrow it down like that. Got to admit, I seen that person do another post and oh wow, they had a response right away because they had a very specific narrow question. You know, you got to always be respectful the developer's time, the community time, but this overall will help the project move forward because you're probably not the only one doing this. You may be the first person to notice the problem but you're probably, well publicly notice the problem but you're probably not actual first person to have the problem but some people are very, for as many users there are for some projects you'll find some people just don't want to post online. They'll just complain didn't work with this hardware. I don't like engaging with people online and we know there's plenty of computer people who are more reclusive and may not want to do it but if you get over that you can engage with the community and get these problems solved and make the thing you like to use even better. Yeah. I think another thing that I feel is important is adjusting your own mindset if I mean assuming your mindset needs adjusted. What I mean is that the whole mindset in everything around open source is different than proprietary software. I mean if you think about it when we're paying money for something we expect a return on that money otherwise why would we be paying for something but if we don't pay for something I feel like a lot of people still expect a certain amount of return similar to which they would expect from a paid software. Now what I mean is we have some I'll use the word again toxicity in the community I feel because if someone doesn't step up to help develop something because everyone's like well someone else will take care of it something else someone else will take care of it then no one takes care of it then a feature gets dropped from a project and that could be a feature that someone uses like every single day and then they'll talk about well that project's bad they just removed this feature this is a great feature why would they do this to us they just removed a great feature horrible project horrible developers why would they do this well the thing that I think most people have to keep in mind is that developers believe it or not they don't want to make anyone angry nobody wants to make anyone anyone angry nobody wants trauma but if there's a feature that is considered less important to the project maybe not to you but to the project and you'll probably see messages you know in the past like can someone please help with this can someone keep this going if no one does that and the feature gets dropped well you know that's just kind of how it goes unfortunately I don't like to see features get dropped but sometimes that happens and I think one of the I could probably use Nome as an example of this like probably of five times at least because for example desktop icons that was something that they kind of had in Nautilus for a while but it was unmaintained nobody maintained it then they dropped it and then as soon as they dropped it people were flaming the Nome project like no one stepped up to help so it got dropped that's just how it works unfortunately it's it's not what anybody wants nobody wants their favorite feature to go away and I agree it's so irritating but at the same time the whole culture of open source is different because if it was a you know I'm not trying to say proprietary is better but there is a sense that there's a bunch of people that is their job to answer these kinds of things and keep these things going but a lot of these developers they're literally unpaid and I think that's important to keep in mind that they're doing it for fun and the more people come back at them with anger and frustration over things they can't control then they might be less likely to want to continue developing that project anymore they might just walk away so we want we need to be mindful of that as well Yeah and someone pointed out something and I see this the other day and there's not an easy answer for this one it's when you do take the time to put a really articulate post in there and you just don't get any response from it one of the ones I've seen and because someone had asked me about it I'm like I just don't know the answer they have such a complex post that they had done they had just a lot of factors and they were tying to external authentication servers and everything else and then they added their pcat files and everything else I'm looking at that right up going this is extensive you're clearly using in a commercial environment in a business now whether or not you can get free community support for something like that it's it's hard to lab it out because the problem set they're having involves not just the PF sense but also external authentication to other services so there's not an easy answer for it and a lot of times what I'll do is if it's an easy question I will answer but some of the more complicated ones if someone reached out to me I would probably tell them look at some point I have to turn to consulting you don't have just an average problem it's the same problem I run into where people I call them the triple VPN people who want to have like four or five privacy VPNs with failover really complicated policy routes and they're like but it's not working I'm like you know how hard it's just it can be done it's extensively detailed and troubleshooting wise it's not something the average person uses with this project so your options really are figuring your own figure out someone who's got the time to really type up a to the explanation there's like a push pull here the answer to the problem they're having is almost more complex than the problem they're having so while there's pages of write up here on the problem they're having the answer to how to actually get that all configured when you see the problem is like who do I have time to type out about four paragraphs deep of all the settings that need to be changed to make this work it becomes kind of challenging I don't there's no easy answer for it people contribute what they can you're obviously with hey where do I find this one simple setting you're likely to get a quick reply when you have these really in-depth ones not everyone has the time it's going to vary by what products you're talking about what projects you're talking about that can be a really tricky there's not always an easy answer for getting support on that at some point you may even have to reach out to all per se hey I'm willing to pay you to help me with this it sounds like oh no that's not the open source no that is the software is free people's time is not free that's that's where the the distinction really needs to be I should say where you have to be mindful of it especially if they're not paid or if they are paid by a foundation for it this is you know you look at something like Red Hat where they offer these support contracts that's why they offer them because they're like hey you can have this software but if you really want that support for these really complex setups you having your business or these you know one-off cases that aren't just kind of general use well that's why they sell support services around it it's not that they're trying to make a product that can't be supported and we're keeping the documentation from you it's all open you can read through the code you can look at how it functions it just takes a lot of learning to get to where you understand how to deploy these really complex configs yeah and sometimes it's it's uncomfortable to admit this but sometimes you are the edge case as much as you probably don't want to say that or admit up to that but you know you can see I'm just making this up but you might see some crazy use cases out there like my automatic dog walking drone based on a boon to doesn't fly anymore now my dog hasn't been walked in a few days get this fixed now wait what you have an automatic dog walker I mean there's all these different things that you know people think of that I think are brilliant right but then when something doesn't work it's like well whose fault is it now like that's not even the use case that this is designed for you could argue and we were talking just the other day about my use case with CIFS not being quite Linux friendly because I'm using CIFS but I'm all Linux and not a mixed environment so of course I'm the edge case here because just like you were saying yesterday when we were chatting like literally like the majority of people using TrueNAS and using Samba are doing it because they want to share files between you know in a windows environment or mixed environment and here I am all Linux and I have a recording share that's CIFS and having some permissions issues because it doesn't work the way that Samba normally works in Linux which you know got me a little irritated to be honest with you but then you call me down and like hold on a minute you know you are the edge case here yeah and that's the true story right there sometimes you are the edge case that doesn't mean that all hope is lost that just means you have to approach it differently like maybe you know document why your use case matters to you why it might matter to other people make a feature request a change request or something like that because it's not always fixing things that are broken sometimes you might have like a really good idea and you just want to get this idea out there maybe you don't even have the coding skills yourself to develop this idea but it's such a great idea that you really want to let someone know about this because a lot of people would benefit from this if somebody was to step up to the plate and write that code but if you don't get that idea out there either someone else is going to get the idea out there and great because it's open source it doesn't matter who came up with it or worse nobody will and nobody will benefit from that idea yeah and then some of the engagement even I have at the developers is I look at the way the product might be deployed I've influenced a little something that maybe we'll talk about in the future when it's finished some stuff that's happened at Bitwarden I've had conversations with their devs team and things like that so there's there's always that level of engagement that you get on there I want to address a question that came up in the comments and it goes back to me saying you know and they say I feel there's a fine line between community approach and seeking help and commercial support how do you define when someone should pay for support versus I'll get free support there's no easy answer if you have a especially if it's a commercial endeavor you're doing this for a business at some point I would probably say reach out and pay them because you can't find any way to solve the problem you aren't skilled enough to solve it yourself there's not any hard-fast rule on that it's kind of a well I threw it out there and yes I have this incredibly complicated config I set up for a business that isn't working at some point you just kind of say well I guess maybe I'll pay if you can't solve it it'd be if it's worth it to you you pay us probably how the the fine line it's not like there's a other line I can think of on that so if I needed some level of support or some configuration to be managed in a way that I couldn't find support for couldn't figure out myself yeah I would probably pay the most of the products we use were so familiar with me and my team build out our own labs all the time before we deploy to clients so we're often very familiar with how these scenarios work but we are ourselves a huge part of what my company does is consulting on projects for the things we talk about so I usually people are calling us but where that line is is often the commercial one is drawn like all right this is the thing we're going to put in deployment and we need some helps so getting this all set up and we're ready to hire some experts on it so up to you essentially there's not an easy hard line on that I'm going to give an alternate explanation from a different vantage point on this because from the and you know this just as well as I do that from the business IT standpoint I feel like a lot of this paying for support comes from that and that mindset often not always I'm not trying to throw every IT company under the bus here but a good number of them are like this where they're not buying support they say they are and they are paying for support they are paying a company for support but they're not buying support what do I mean by that well they don't care about the support because a lot of times IT companies have internal people that can fix the problem but what they're buying instead of support even though on the invoice it says support contract they're buying a liability shift such that yes if if this was to go down um I don't want my IT people to be written up from HR because you know HR might not understand IT and you know is a bigger problem I want to shift that liability to the support company so that way if that if something bad happens and we don't get it fixed oh yeah the support company didn't get back to us and I hate to say that because I feel like it's throwing multiple companies under the bus but these are conversations that kind of happen behind closed doors and IT companies and sometimes it's not even that sometimes it's policy where the requirement is to have a support contract not that you actually need it but that the company's policy is that if it's in production you must have one now how does that what does that have to do with us right well a lot of us work for IT and we don't hear the other side of that conversation and instead we hear gotta have a support contract gotta have a support contract so it's kind of drilled into our heads that we have to have a support contract so we have something important in our homelab well if you know I don't get an answer from the forums what do I do I need a support contract well hold on maybe and this is kind of where I go back to piggyback up of what you said what matters most is where you draw the line and this is true a business or home of how long you could be without it for example if it's an important thing but you don't I mean you could last a week without it it's not like you know it's a big deal okay that's fine but if it's something that you would seriously be inconvenienced by more than that then you might want to consider that support agreement and that's what really defines that is how long you can be without it and what the SLA and the skill sets are of the company you're getting support from because just because you have a support agreement doesn't necessarily mean that they'll know how to fix your problem in particular because of going back to my earlier point you could be the edge case and if you are well no support no no support agreement is ever going to help you with that right reasonable expectations as well now let's talk about one of the other cool things and this is how I know Jay you can make a lot of friends in the open source community so me and Jay we're both at the same conference together and we actually submitted some talks for this upcoming conference it was pinguincon but I was a speaker there and I have been and we actually had some mutual friends if you're been following me and Jay for a while you know we were both on the Sunday morning Linux review podcast before and we met all because of our love of open source and we you know as they even call it the birds of a feather where a bunch of people get together on the same topic is that's actually what they call it at the conference and there we all are loving Linux talking about it and you know this is how even me and Jay forged our friendship he you know he lucky enough that Jay is geographically reasonably close he lives in Michigan like I do but he doesn't live that close and but this is how we connected is all through open source and I've made a lot of friends this way connecting through open source and I think that's something me and Jay we're just joking how it can be especially as you get older I don't know I don't know what the age demographic of all our listeners is but you'll learn as you're older it's a little harder sometimes to make friends but it's you know something you still want to do and you also want your friend circle to be passionate about the things you're passionate about this is something you find in the open source community you'll find people from diverge divergent backgrounds but you're all going ah we all love storage servers so we all love diving into firewall topics and things like that so you know building a lot of friends and community around that oh yeah absolutely I actually remember the first interaction that we've ever had because it's so hilarious like literally is when my YouTube channel was kind of just starting and I think at that time I was still on a very old 1280 by 700 something resolution laptop and still had a $15 microphone so we're talking like super early days when I was starting up and I was at Penguin Con and I asked somebody about a video question and they said yeah go ask Tom I'm like who's Tom and he's like that dude over there go ask him I'm like okay so then I go in the room and then I see you with like some a lot of video equipment I don't remember what all it was it looked like you had like two carts full of video equipment there and I'm like yeah so this person said you could offer some tips on video and here's what your tip was you said when you make a mistake when you're recording just say a swear word like super loud because when you swear super loud you will see the spike on the audio graph and you'll know exactly where to go to edit out your mistake and I did do that for a while but then I got kind of like scared that I forget to you know edit that out but that after that interaction then you know went to your panels and everything else I'm like this dude has some similar interest that that I have as well so that's kind of it's just that funny interaction I'll never forget yeah it's it's really fun it's all the there's so much profanity that that gets cut out because you feel better because you screw up and it's like I could just be silent and look for the dead spots but it's way better to scream profanity because you feel better you know what the F word looks like in the audio graph of I know exactly what it looks like but then knowing me and my clutsiness I'll forget to edit that out so I stopped doing that a while ago but that was really funny I'm like wow that really does work yeah but you know but I think there's a lot to be said about forming those communities around these topics this is actually really adjacent to the way the hacking communities work as well I was joked that the hacking communities are almost like this constant show a tell of hey look what I got into look at how I took this apart because if you hang out as I do sometimes with different friends who are really into hacking things and I mean in the proper way pen testing and things like that and not people who are run around exploit extort type those the the name can be used on the either side but my friends who I go to DEF CON with and things like that that is they're really into sharing in that community and you start with that common interest we I was hanging out at in 2020 I did the DEF CON car hacking village because it happened to be here in Detroit and I knew the people involved in it but you still build that community around and it's it's really to me one and the same building those communities around and I think it's just a really positive way you can get involved and have you know these common interests on there it's it's kind of like almost a side effect of open source contribution but it's actually a great reason to get into it yep absolutely and I think yeah the community aspect I mean that's the key here because you're building community a report with other people that's how you find people that share common interest that can help you you help them and I think that back and forth with people is probably the best thing because you know you scratch my back cause I scratch yours kind of thing and I think that really helps here and you know one thing I do want to kind of mention I talk about several times you are the edge case possibly well that's not a bad thing by the way I don't want to make that out to be a bad thing because I feel like homeland people we are the edge case each and every single one of us right in some form or fashion I don't think there's a single homelab person that isn't an edge case in some form or fashion I think that's what makes us stand out that's what makes us clever that's what makes us you know have the mindset that we can do the hosting ourselves we can run the server ourselves we think outside the box otherwise we wouldn't even have a homelab we would just have like some you know $200 nas thing from clearance at Walmart call it a day and that would be that but sometimes having the having an edge case or being the edge case is great because I hear about some of the things that people are doing with technology I'm like you're doing what that's awesome I never thought about that so I don't mean to disparage anybody from being the edge case but when you are the edge case you kind of have to navigate open source of it differently to let people know what exactly you're doing because they're not really aware of what you're doing because you know you're unique so just keep that in mind and explain in detail short detail what you want to achieve out of whatever it is you need help with or need fixed what you have tried what type of hardware you have what patch level you're at things like that just make it easy on people and you know that should be a good thing to do absolutely all right I think that's the end of our list or do you have anything else you know I feel like I could be I could talk about this you know constantly because oh there is one more thing I do want to mention like we need to go back to the beginning of the podcast where we saw the comment about companies using open source or their gain now I will say that with everything good there's a negative unfortunately and one example of this is you know people that know me well they know that my you know Linux is my number one passion but retro gaming is my second place so of course I have all these game systems also have some of these clone systems and Hyperkin was in the news because this is a while back they released a product I believe it was the Retron 5 and they were in trouble because if I remember correctly they didn't call out the fact that they were using open source technologies in their in their firmware and they totally were and they're selling this device selling the device isn't really a problem but not giving credit where credit is due is a problem and they're not the only company to get caught doing this so that's a big deal and then you know profiting on it yeah they might but unfortunately there's you know nothing we could do to stop them from doing that because it's just the way it goes but there's also nothing stopping you from making money either because keep in mind if you know how to work with a library or an open source project at the code level you could actually sell your services and be an independent consultant and make some major money so don't think for a minute that just because other companies are profiting off of your contributions that doesn't mean that you also can't do the same you can you just have to think outside the box and go after whatever it is you want but even if you don't do that then the experience you are getting is more valuable than any training you will ever take and I've seen some of these IT trainings cost like $20,000 for training I'm not even kidding you and imagine paying that oh my god or working with open source and contributing and getting that skill set for free I think that's a lot better in my opinion than paying something like 20 grand for a training course there's so many benefits here that even though there's some legitimate negatives I think that those negatives they just don't they aren't they aren't negative enough to disparage people from working with open source it's all about your mindset yeah and I've seen some people as I follow a couple kernel developers on Twitter and I know one of them was particularly bitter their optimization being used for some high frequency trading for some serious BS as they put it and I get it but it's not it's not enough to deter them from being a code contributor but there's certainly a bitterness that seems to have come with that you take the good with the bad I think the good far far far outweighs the bad it's yes someone may actually use the software contribution you did to integrate and so of course and some companies keep internal technology it's proprietary they took some of your code they use it to build the business they never talk about what code they're using to run it because it's a private company that's going to happen it's just one of those accepted things you move on and you know that it's just life I don't worry never know much it doesn't stop me from doing all the things I do as a matter of fact I know by putting out some of these videos you know some people I've actually had this asked me as a question you know if you offer consulting time but if you give some of the full tutorial they won't even hire you they won't even you've given away all the information now they don't even need to hire you they got it all set up I'm like great I'm glad they got it working there's enough people that do hire us that this is still a great you know the consultancy work we do still works out very well for me I love that I can give the entire tier away because I won't lie here's an easy example of this I uh my head like cracked on my Tesla you know what I watched a video on it that video made me determine that I am not is it it was and some people watching videos going I'm gonna learn this I'm gonna watch this tutorial I'm gonna read documentation I'll learn this product other people go that's a lot of complicated things but you know I'm just gonna end up reaching out to the person that wrote the complicated thing put the tutorial together so right take yeah there's like I said I won't lie it's an annoying thing it happens as you mentioned at the beginning of this podcast in the comments just your role with it it's not it don't focus on it so right you're never gonna know what your contribution or where that'll end up I mean I could hypothetically create a I don't know code for a robot that can put objects in a box it just picks up objects and drops into box and I just put that code out there in public domain and then some pizza company uses it to automate the process of putting pineapple on a pizza oh my god why are they doing this why are they using my my invention for something so horrible but there's nothing I could do about it because I put that out there and if somebody wants to put pineapple on pizza I guess I can't stop them but whatever it is joking aside you really don't know but what you have to focus on is the passion for what you do because the minute you lose that you will get burned out I have one time is my second book I got burned out I was so overwhelmed and all I could focus on was the overwhelm and not how much fun it was to write I almost didn't come out with that book but then later on I adjusted myself you know what I enjoy writing that's what I'm gonna focus on not how many chapters I have to write or how long it's going to take I love the process I'm going to enjoy it and that's what I'm going to do and once you focus on the passion literally the other stuff that doesn't matter anymore yeah so we'll leave you with that that's our full thoughts on because you're back to open source I'll also mention I don't know why I didn't know about this before but it landed on something cool that I might do a video on if I play with it some there is a option inside of github and it's called github explore and I guess it just finds random projects for you I thought that I think it's like github.com slash explore set the I feeling lucky button that Google has but the github equivalent yeah it looks at what you did and suggests things and I it oddly it suggests a project I never heard of but I liked it immediately so that I'm going to say success but you can actually just sort and explore on github as well I just thought it was weird to suggest to their product right away that was just before the show so I don't have that in the notes or anything it was just for the show as well as things that popped up but it's a cool it's a cool project and if I like that if the project works as good as the github claims I'll be doing a video on it and sometimes you'll find a project that just you know it's it's not the project that you wanted but you find out that it's what you needed and didn't know you needed it like there's there's a few out there that automate via the command line the process of ordering lunch I mean you could literally order lunch without leaving the terminal how cool is that that is awesome yes there are some projects like that yeah those are those are cool and I see people talking about things I like I see pepperoni and pineapples and jalapenos I love all those things so me too hungry I have to stop putting jalapenos on my pizza because I was probably doing damage to my stomach at that point with how many I was putting on there but totally understand yep yep all right we have reached the end of the show thank you all of us everyone for joining this was a lot of fun we do like when people join us live we've been pretty consistent on 11 am EST on Wednesdays who've been going live for those of you that are listening to this and want to know when you can where you can participate in the chat room how we're just doing this live on youtube check everything out at the home lab dot show and thanks again everyone see you later


Let's welcome back to why in the morning entrepreneurship Tuesday in particular my name is by Moses or it's my Mokwam Tendaw. It's always a pleasure as I always say so remember to interact with us on our social media handles that is Facebook at White5Four, Twitter at White5Four channel and Instagram at White5Four underscore channel. Facebook is a special place today because we have a question pinned on our Facebook page and this is basically asking Do you think waking up early or going to bed late which one builds a successful person? I have a successful person in studio with me and his organizer of the face of devolution, the face of devolution Kenya and he goes by the name Richard. Alright Karibusana your camera is number four so if I missed anything I'd like to give people a chance to introduce themselves and say everything they're about. Thank you Barry. Thank you for having me in the studio. Just look them straight into their eyes and introduce yourself. Yes thank you Barry for having me here. My name is Kenneth Ronald June. I'm the director and the organizer. Actually the founder of the face of devolution Kenya. Yeah that was my brainchild. Alright Kenneth Ronald. Devolution this is something that started after 2012 elections, if I'm not wrong. No 2012 elections. We went into devolution and we had our first governors, our first senators, our first MCs. What do you think is the state sofa of devolution? Do you think it has helped us as we presumed? Actually Barry, devolution has really changed a lot. Decentralizing the organization and the fund management down to the entry level has really impacted a lot of things in the country. That's why the criterion was there was incorporated in the institution that constitution in 2010 yes. And due to that fact that's the reason why we decided to come up like why? After we have the devolution now with the governance and everything is under ourself right. We left about the national government away from that right. So why don't we just try to do something we as the youth yes we can do something better out of it right. So that's why we decided let's take the girls. I'm an enthusiast of youth empowerment and girl child empowerment right. I really fight for the girls if the girl child empowerment. So I said why don't you just take out the girls now that they may be there. The less privileged in the society actually their position in society is much not the graph is not. Yes it's been a man's world for a long time. Yeah thank you. So you now decided why don't you just take these girls and do something very good then we can incorporate the arts in devolution. That's where we go. That is that is your mission right. So we have Miss Devolution Miss the face of devolution. All right help me say this right the face of devolution or Miss Devolution. It's Miss Face of Devolution. Miss Face of Devolution. Miss Face of Devolution. Yes. All right what is the what is the purpose of this in the lover. Actually a lot of people have been asking me about that right.  Because we have we have the Miss Earth. We have Miss Universe. We have Miss World. But let me tell you one thing if you don't in Kenya. We don't have a pageant that we own ourselves right. Yes the pageants we have and Miss Universe is for the for the Americans. The Miss World is for the Bridgelands. Yes and when we participate in that it doesn't mean we only okay. The Franka is the Franka is all that in Kenya. The Jesuits will take the contestant in the international level right. But possibly I'll say what about us yes. We need something almost. We need something for our own right. Yeah that's why I decided to just take. Just hold the mic steady. Yeah I decided to take this thing lower back home like we want to have this thing. We want to have the world class event. We want to have the world class pageant in our country. All right I like this. So what is the plan how are you going to carry this out. Very sincerely speaking. This was a big risk that I took right yes. This was a big risk. I'm a risk taker.  We have 47 counties. We have 47 counties and we are one organizer. So it's a whole mean to solve this advance right. To come up with a team and a competitive team that can really work out things. Yes we have 47 counties. All these counties have to be represented in the competition right. So the first we have to we had two criterions yes of holding the event. The first criteria of the first procedure was supposed to. We were supposed to do the auditions or do the event at each and every county right. Then after having the winters at each and every county. We have the nationals right. Just the same way with the Miss Kenyan the Miss one. I feel you I feel you. So there was this this paradigm shift that I had to do. I guess I do things the other way around. So I said why do that also time that will be time wasting right. At consume time so expensive yes. So what do I have to do. I just have to it's a small this is a small country right. I have to fight away. Incorporating each and every county. But making less events. Thank you. So I decided to divide this pageant into different regions right. Where we have we have five regions. We have the north-east region. We have the western region. Postal region. Central region. And the. The marginalized. The marginalized. Uh huh. Uh huh. The north-east yes. The far people the bandera the northern people. Yes. The north-east and the north-east and eastern part of Ken. So for the western people. I decided they can just have their auditions. They are on the nearest town that's right. Kissumi the central town. Yeah Kissumi the central town. Then the north-east. Actually north-east is the largest. The largest region. That's the largest region. So I had to check two stations right. Because I saw Lorette at the upper end. And the lower end we have Nakoro. Yes. Then central we have Nairobi's the capital. At the at the at the coastal we have Moabasa. Which is the central town. Which is the central town. All right. Then about these people the the marginalized people. We have to handle them a different way. Maybe okay according to our we already own the registrations right by the way. We've registered 195 models. 195 models of from across the country. From across the country. A particular region. Yes. I just dropped an advert yesterday. Which was calling that was the last call for the registration for the system. What the service closed right. We had a target of 350 models. 350 contestants that's country right. Yes. But right now we are almost halfway. Actually we surpassed the halfway. Yes. So after calling for the the last registration. We had another the number was again to 210 right. Yes. So also you know I wanted to involve all these guys. At this level we after we have had the auditions at the stations. We will have to vet them. The guys have to vet it right. All right. Which leads to my next question. Yes. What is the criteria of vetting. What are you looking for in these models. Thank you for the question. With the models actually what you want. The beauty comes last. That's now what's different from ours. The beauty comes last. We want this. We want this. This is something that we embrace. Yes. We need a lady of an epitome of elegance right. And intelligently right. Someone who can handle. An ambassador. African queen. Someone an African queen who can hold the the chair for the devolution right. You know devolution. That's just our own thing. This is our own thing. It's not going past the border as far as. All right. So these people need to be to have an understanding of devolution. What it is. And what it's doing for the country. Yes. In guessing. Yes.  Thank you. So these are some of the questions you're going to be asking during the vetting process. Actually during the vetting process we have it's going to be broken down to different categories. The first category we have the first auditions where the guys actually they've been okay you know everybody where a lot of people misunderstand auditions right. You know when someone's asking you oh auditions. Takua will be happy and everything. Like he went to Takua be like come on no. The auditions are not the event right. An audition is how it's a place. It's just a platform created for you for the charge. They actually the vetting panel. To select the people. To select the people. The guys just come then they sit somewhere. Yes. Then it's like an interview right. We just need to get. An audition is like an interview. Yeah. You just need to get what's upstairs. That's what you want right. The guys are there. They vetting teams here. We have a small runway just because you know we have to see on your work right. Then you'll be given the mic. The guys won't move. It's not to be want to be in a small room. It's in a big room where you have to address. We also allow the public to attend right. So it's about carrying your confidence as well. That's what you also make your path through. Yes. So that is a first step which is audition. So we have Kisumu for the western region. We have Nakuru and Eldred for the north rift region. We have Nairobi for the central region. We have Mombasa for the coastal region. And then the marginalized communities you're going to find a way to incorporate them as well. Yeah, actually the advantage in some of our advantage. All right. So after the audition, how many people are going to be picked for the national contest? Yeah. After the audition, only 47 contestant. All you need is 47 contestant. It's 47 contestant. So after the criteria, they have a professional panel by the way. We have a panel of professionals who will really, really check the plug into what they want from the girls. I won't be involved. All right. You are just the organizer. You're just the preacher. I'm not involved, yes. I'm not involved. Yes, but my role is just to hire the professionals to involve them. Yeah, because we don't want these things of baseness. All right. So baseness is also an issue that arises when it comes to pageants. And in Kenya, we have so many lines that could define. We have the tribal line. We have the class line. People from a certain class feel like they're looked down upon. We have the race one because we not only have one race in Kenya. We have white Kenyans. We have Indian Kenyans. We have the Somali Kenyans. So there's so many lines of patriotism. So how are you going to cut this? Actually, but that's some big point that really affects the models and the contestants, by the way. The fear. This fear of being secluded. This fear of being judged according to your tribal allegation, according to your race, according to how you look, right? So that's something that we know how to handle, right? The panel. Okay. It's about the trust and the level at which I choose the panel with the panelist, right? At the panelist, at the auditions, we have three. The panelist, that three. We have a guy, not very nice guy. We have a woman, a lady woman. She's over 45. At each and every station, we have a 45-year-old lady above 45. That's the head of the panel. Then we have an under 25-year-old lady. Then we have a guy. All these guys are looking at different aspects. Each and every one is looking at a different aspect. Yes. And they have to come to a consensus to pick. They have to come to a consensus because all these people out of there know each other. Have you had trouble so far where you have one judge wanting somebody and the rest of the judges? That's no more. That's no more. I remember when I was, I used to be a model, by the way. I used to be a model. You're not a model anymore? Yeah, I don't do the model anymore. There are lots of reasons. And you actually also have to pick, yes? You have to move ahead. Instead, why are they judging me? You know, I was like, the first moment I was like, why are they judging me? Okay, they let them judge me. Then the next level I took, I was now a judge. Come on, I think I should also judge these people. Yes, I became a judge. I've been judging KU again. Then I came from an extent like, come on, I have challenged myself. So now you're on with the event? Yes, now I'm on with the event. Facing your challenges is something very important. And always challenging yourself. It's something very important. Because you've come from being a model.  And now you have your own peasant being organized. I love that about you. Another thing I'd like to know is this involvement in community services. They're going to involve themselves in community work. Okay, it's burning. Yeah, at some point that I left out, the 47 contestants, we have the 47 contestants. But at the beginning, I had 200 entire limited. Why did they let us go? Did you ask yourself that? Okay, so that you get left with the 47? Yes, all these people have been engaged and they've given their all. We believe in them and we love all of them and you can let them go like that. Yes, so let me give an example. 350 models, out of 350 models, I pick 47 models. We have a remainder of 310 models. So the 310 models, we have to do something. This is our main target was to promote, yes, an internship, empowerment and leadership interaction into these guys. Right? We didn't bring them there to come and contest, fail and go back home, fail and know how to lose, you know. Yes, now that's something that we tend to avoid. So, the best thing we're going to do, we're going to consume the girls. Yes, we're going to consume the 310 girls in an agency. All right, so you're going to put them in an agency? Yeah, we're going to put them in an agency. And you're going to look for work for them? Yes. All right, that is amazing. All right, so I like that there are no losers in the Misses. There are no losers, there are no losers in the Misses. All right, another question. Now you can answer my next question. How are they going to involve themselves in the community works that you're talking about? After the auditions, before we involve them in the community services, we are going to take them to the main thing. Now the main reason why this event... Oh, this comes after? Yes. This, what are we talking about? The community service comes after the fieldwork and the workshop, yes. The workshop is the workshop, now this is the main thing. This is the big deal, the workshop. This is where the guards now take the watch. That is now we start judging them now. Yes. All right, so what happens at the workshop? At the workshop. The guards are supposed to get back to their communities, yes.  Actually, we are going to give them the titles to handle, right? Actually, we are working towards advocating for the beef agenda for the presidency, right? We have the food security, healthcare. We have housing as well. Housing and manufacturing, yes. Those are the main things that we are going to handle. So it's important you choose, go back to your society, handle those criteria, check on one, get a problem that really faces the members of your community. It's like a research. Do a research about it, come up with a solution, present it. Just the same way we presented, the mispresident thing happened, right? They become on the live TV, each and every one will present about their research and what they've come up with, their solutions and how did this happen. And out of this, we are going to find solutions that will help the communities that they are coming from. So I'm trying to imagine we are going to have 47 solutions across 47 counties. Wonderful. Yeah, that will be a very, very, very adventure, yes, and very open-minded for everybody. I like that. Thank you. Well, so what does miss face of devolution? What are some of the parks that she's going to take home? Oh, the miss face. Actually, the first time we, do you remember when you said that we don't have any losers in the miss face of devolution? Yes, we don't have any losers. Actually, all the models will be awarded, all that participate will be awarded, because they all will be given the TRS that, or yes, they must have the TRS, yes, all the certificates for participation and everything they must have. We have the, at the winners, we have actually, we have a lot of winners here, almost six. Almost six winners. Almost six, the main winners. The main winners. We have the main winners. So one will carry the crown, obviously, miss face of devolution. Miss face of devolution, that's the ambassador for devolution in the oil country. Then we have the first runner-up, that's obvious, first runner-up and the second runner-up, right? Following, we have the miss congliality, yes. What are you, I'm new to this. I know, I know, I know. In this line, pageant, we have miss congliality. Okay, it's intelligence, the most intelligent. The most intelligent. Yes. So what happens if the person who carries the crown is the same person who is the most intelligent? These people can't have all these characters in them. That's why the team that we have, the penalties that we have, it's a very professional thing, right? To an extent, like, do you have to select all the participants? I didn't tell you, okay, after the, after the, you know, we are at the, which part are we? At the workshop. At the workshop, those are possible. Just all the backstage. We're supposed to go handle the community services, give back to society, get involved in the volunteer jobs, civic engagement, yes. So from that point, that's when the girls now go to the bootcamp. So in the bootcamp, that's where all these are going to be decided. At the bootcamp, there's a lot of judging, a lot of events happen. At the bootcamp, now we have the, this is when I invite speakers. We have speakers, a lot of speakers, yes. These girls have to be talked to about help. They have speakers on nutrition. They have speakers on entrepreneurship. They have speakers on politics and leadership. And these are skills they are going to take into solving the problems that you were talking about. Yeah, yeah. Actually, that's what we're trying to entrench in there. Yes. Self-development, yes. Self-development. Self-development. Just want to get, actually. Is this the theme of the, of the, of the pageant? Self-development. No, the, the theme of the pageant is entrenching. We're trying to entrench development, beauty and elegance in virtue of devolution. Virtue of devolution. I like that. We are getting feedback from the viewers. And most would like to know when this kicks off, when does this kick off and how they can get involved once again? The registration is on, right? The registration is on, on social media pages, right? Just look them straight into that. Yeah, the registration is on our social media pages. We have our Facebook page and we have Instagram page. At the Instagram bio, actually in the bio, at the profile, we have a link. I think it's on the screen, right? At the screen, we have this, but we have the link. This is not the registration link. Any more, or any contesters who want to get involved in this, this is the link you click, then you go into direct to a form that you feel. After submission of the form, there is a confirmation. That is the form, right there? This is the form. For registration. It's on the bio, on your bio, on Instagram. On the bio, on Instagram, right? The Instagram handle again, Miss Face of Devolution. Miss Face of Devolution Kenya, yes. So this is the bio, then this is the link. So when you click on the link, it goes directly to the registration form. Which you expected all the guys, most of them are mothers. They were expected of them. You have one name, you are date of birth, phone contact, county. You can stop that, the date of birth. What is the age limit? Did you see my advertisement that I sent you? Yes, I saw it. It's 1929. 19 to 29. Yes, it's out there 19 to 29. Yes. All right. So 18 no, 30 no. 18 no, 18 no. I, someone asked me that question about 18. Why, why are you leaving us out? And I'm like, come on. I know I've left you out. I'm sorry about that.  Come on. There's this type of competition that you don't have to get your tears every day out here. Get your age of 19, then we'll confront you. All right. I feel that. I feel that. All right. So country. Of the county, you have the county? The county, rather. Of the county. This is not where the guys choose. Which county? Oh, you speak, actually you register, specifically as per your county. As per your county. Yes. The county you're coming from. On the ID, that's indicating the ID, not where you live. All right. The county is getting your ID. Yes. We have the Facebook or Instagram handle. Actually, it's optional though. It helps at some point. To monitor what you're about and what you're doing online. And what you do on the side. I feel that. When it comes to the county right there, you register with the county of birth, the county that's on your ID. Yes. All right. I'm guessing in Nairobi, everybody, nobody's going to have Nairobi County as their place of origin. It's not the county on their ID. Yeah, those people are there. So these people in Nairobi, are they going to be representing the counties they're coming from or representing Nairobi County? That's a good question. Actually, the guys have been asking me so much. I'm in Nairobi right now. My county is Kisumo. I live in Nairobi. Which county should I put? I'm like, come on. Which is your native county? Yes. You have to give me your native county. That's Kisumo. It depends. It confuses them by the way. We have the county, actually the county slot and we have the audition station slot, right? At the audition station slot, your county is Kisumo, right? But you live in Nairobi. Definitely, your audition station is Nairobi. Yes, that's the nearest. All right. Yes. The nearest. Thank you very much for the information and thank you very much for what you're doing and thank you very much for coming through to Y in the morning. I appreciate it. So before we wrap this up, I'd like to get to know what type of guy, do you go to bed late or do you wake up early to do your work? Do you work late or wake up early to work? That is the question on our Facebook today. I work late. You work late? Till five. You work late till five a.m. I sleep for three hours. And then you sleep at five? I sleep at five? Okay, this is my shadow since... Okay, this part of me, yes. I don't know. This is always in me. Since high school. Anyway, I used to sleep. You have a problem with sleep? I don't know whether I'm noxious or something though. I don't know whether I'm noxious or something, but I sleep at five. You sleep at five a.m.? Yes, I sleep at five a.m. And I wake up at 8.30. You sleep at five and you wake up at 8.30? I'm not employed anymore. All right. I'm not employed. So I don't have that much. You're a freelance guy, so you need to hustle. But my entire day I have to be aware. I have to be up. All right, so it all depends on the person. You wouldn't advise somebody to sleep at five? No, I would advise, trust me. I would advise you to sleep at five. I would advise you to sleep at five. For an active mind. For an active mind, actually, you have to have enough sleep and you should go to sleep. You should be in bed. You're just a special case. I'm just a special case. You don't have to go with my way. Thank you very much for what you're doing. All right, when is the first audition and wish down? The first audition should be in Kisomo. Most probably by the beginning next month. First week of next month. First week of next month. We have auditions in Kisomo followed by Eldorite. Then we jump to... Okay. This is how we were thinking about this. From the statistics and from the server we have, details have come that Nairobi, Nekoro, we have less number of people who want to audition there. So I'm going to... We're just going to exit, right? So from Eldorite, we're going to jump to Mombasa after doing the Mombasa auditions, then the capital auditions, such as Nairobi. Yes. That's going to run within three... That's four weekends. Yes. Four weekends. Four weekends. All right. The dates and the times and the locations will be live on your social media. On my social media pages, yes. That is Miss Face of Devolution. K.E. on Instagram. Yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Mr... Juma. Mr. Juma. Mr. Juma for coming through to Why in the Morning. And thank you very much for what you're doing for the ladies. We hope we are going to have... For the gents as well. Miss Face of Devolution. Jensen men. No, gents. Mr. Face of Radha. Mr. Face. No, you want her. Personally, for me, I want the guys. That thing you have against a boy child. No, it's a way of the... That's a good question, by the way. A lot of people have been asking me that. Why did she include the guys? And I'm like, no. About the guys, there's always a lot of contradictory... There's a lot involved, yes. The guys, there's just a lot. It's complicated. It's complicated. When it comes to that. I've been asked like, did you ever hear of Mr. Universe? Oh, Mr.... Yes, I don't remember the last time I heard of it. Yeah, we don't have that. Okay, dad really likes to lie up or fast. Then we have a lot. They have issues, yes. Then they are... And egos. And egos and a lot of manipulation. You're not the guys. Then this level, you fail.  All their poses and everything. You always find them new. And you know that one makes people take much advantage of them and involve them with their sex feelings and everything. And that's something which is X and that's why most people don't. Which is something that is happening in the beauty industry so much. Yeah, that's a very... We'll end it at that. Thank you. Thank you. We've come to the end of the first interview of the day.  K.E. presented to you right here on Y. And the morning on entrepreneurship Tuesday. Alex is coming up next with another interview. You don't want to miss this.


I've been a long time advocate for Vote by Mail nationwide and it has never been more important than it is now because obviously we're living through a pandemic and we have absolutely no idea how long this is going to last. So in order to make sure people can safely make their voices heard in November, we've got to have some way that they'll be able to vote by mail. So we have time. Now is when members of Congress should be acting to put some sort of mechanism in place and, you know, codify Vote by Mail into law. It's not just something that we need throughout the duration of this pandemic, but it's something that should have already been a thing because it works really well. There's a number of benefits. It's easy. It also increases voter turnout. But that's one of the problems with Vote by Mail is that because it increases voter turnout because it makes it easier to vote, Republicans don't like it because they're self interested and they know that if more people show up to vote, that means that they'll have, you know, a worse chance of winning because usually an election will come down to turnout. When turnout is high, Democrats win. When turnout is low, Republicans win. So they are banking on disenfranchising people and Trump has been disgusting and weasley unsurprisingly in talking about Vote by Mail because he's trying to fear monger about it and make it seem as if we open the door to nationwide vote by mail of any kind. That's going to lead to fraud and abuse, except there's no evidence for that.  Yeah, pretty shameless, pretty transparent. So his AP's Nicholas Ricardi reports while President Donald Trump claims mail-in voting is ripe for fraud and cheaters, his reelection campaign and state allies are scrambling to launch operations meant to help their voters cast ballots in the mail. Through its partnership with the Republican National Committee, Trump's campaign is training volunteers on the ins and outs of mail-in and absentee voting and sending supporters texts and emails reminding them to send in their ballots. Quote, while we strongly disagree with the ill intended Democrat push for mail-in ballots, we have an obligation to our voters to inform them of what the law is in their state and what their options are. Tim Murtaugh, Trump campaign spokesperson, said, OK, so do you understand what they're saying here? They're basically saying, look, we really love Vote by Mail. It's just that we only want our supporters to be able to vote by mail and benefit from that. But we still want to make sure that we can disenfranchise as many Democrats as we possibly can, because that's what's going to help us win the election. I mean, they're shameless. They're not even hiding their agenda. They're hypocrites. And, you know, as Trump rails against Vote by Mail, as Republicans repeat what he says, remind them of this fact that Trump's team is currently trying to educate voters about the options that they'll have in states to mail in their ballots or submit absentee ballots, whatever. They want to make sure voters know they can safely vote if they don't want to risk their asses and come out to support Donald Trump at a poll. It's shameless. As someone who advocates for Vote by Mail, I don't only apply that advocacy if it benefits me. I think nationwide every single citizen should have access to Vote by Mail. And I speak with experience. As long as I've been old enough and eligible to vote, I have voted by mail because I live in the state of Oregon. We've had this now for about two decades and it makes voting really, really easy. I basically have no excuse to not vote. My ballot gets mailed to me weeks in advance. I take as much time as I need to fill it out. And I just put it in the mailbox. It's done. You don't even have to put a stamp on it. You just fill it out, put it in the envelope that they provide you with, and you've made your voice heard. It is incredibly easy. And even though Republicans are trying desperately to make this a partisan issue in the state of Oregon, it's not a partisan issue. Republicans and Democrats in this state like it. And there's a lot of benefits with it as well. As Cynthia McFadden and Kevin Monahan of NBC News explains, it's a system that constantly produces some of the highest voter participation rates in the country. In 2016, 68% of Oregon's registered voters voted. 8% above the national average. The Oregon way is also endorsed across party lines. Current Secretary of State Dennis Richardson, a Republican and one of his predecessors, Phil Keisling, a Democrat, agreed that it gets people to vote and is cheaper and more secure than machines and polling places. Quote, you can't hack paper, said Richardson. Isn't that amazing in its simplicity, said Keisling. Give everyone their ballot and then let them decide where they want to market, whether they want to market at all. Keisling, who pushed for voting by mail as secretary of state in the 1990s, says that in-person voting can actually discourage people from voting, especially now that 32 states have some kind of voter ID requirement. I think polling places have become the single biggest voter suppression device in American politics, said Keisling. Richardson said the Oregon way removes the pressure of being in a voting booth and they're both right. A Democrat and a Republican in Oregon are saying the exact same thing about vote by mail. I don't know what it's like to experience the pressure of voting in the booth. I'm assuming that you feel rushed because there's usually long lines because the number of polling stations have been reduced in precincts across the country where there's voter suppression, not just by Republicans, but Democrats as well during primaries. But I mean, I don't know what that's like. Like to me, voting is so easy and it's difficult to imagine having to leave my home and stand in line all to cast a vote when the Oregon way is super simple. Like it's easy. Like it feels like Oregon is a different country than other states. It really does because you know, we vote by mail and when I'm done putting my ballot in the mailbox, I can walk into a store and legally purchase cannabis.  You've got to get with the times. Vote by mail is not a new idea. Oregon has proved that it works and there's literally no excuse in anyone who actually believes Trump's fear mongering. You've been duped. You are making your life more difficult for no reason. Or maybe you do have a reason. Maybe you want the turnout to be lower so Republicans win. Either way, this benefits everyone. It's really, really nice to be able to vote from home safely and not have to worry. Like the minute that we had this pandemic, I was worried about the safety and health of people voting in states like Wisconsin. But in Oregon, I knew that come primary day, I would be able to make my voice heard because as it usually is, my ballot would be mailed to me and I'd fill it out, take my time doing so, research all of the ballot initiatives, research all of the candidates running and it's simple. Look, there's no reason to not have vote by mail. And because we're in a pandemic, there's every reason in the world to adopt it. So Democrats should be screaming from the rooftops of every single building about the necessity of vote by mail because if they don't have some form of vote by mail by November in every single state, Republicans are the favorite to win big. Because if you suppress the vote, if you make it so people don't feel safe to vote, that they may be risking their own health, that's going to hurt Democrats disproportionately. Sure, some Republicans who are immunocompromised may choose to stay home, but more than anything, Democrats will suffer the consequences if we don't have vote by mail. And think about this, as COVID-19 increasingly becomes a partisan issue, there's a portion of the Republican base that doesn't even believe that this is a real thing. They either think it's overblown and that's usually the good scenario if they believe it at all. Some of them think it's just a hoax. So this should be priority number one for Democrats and it shouldn't just be throughout the duration of the pandemic. This should be a normal thing because we have it in Oregon, it works in Oregon. And to Donald Trump's claim that it is conducive to widespread fraud, let's look through the Heritage Foundation and their study about election fraud or voter fraud more specifically and what they had to say about Oregon's rate here. So their election fraud tracker found just 15 instances of voter fraud in Oregon since 2000. 15 instances of voter fraud since 2000 and we have had this for 20 years. So this idea that this leads to abuse, it hasn't happened in Oregon and everyone here is very satisfied with it, everyone who I know, Republican or Democrat would be angry if you try to take away vote by mail from us. So it works here and I know it'll work everywhere else, it's just a matter of getting it passed, getting it codified into law. And if you live in these states that don't have vote by mail yet, you've got to put pressure on your state governments because this is something that you're missing out on. I think that vote by mail is the future and I think it's really the only way going forward in a post COVID-19 world that people are going to want to participate because even when COVID-19 is gone, people are going to have virus and germs on their mind. So people need that reassurance that they can still make their voices heard in a democracy and vote by mail is the way to go. So I've said everything I needed to say. It's a no-brainer. Don't believe Donald Trump's lies. He is lying to you for self-interested reasons. Vote by mail works. It's not conducive to more fraud. It's exactly what the country needs during a pandemic and beyond that. Mike treats me so unfairly.


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