at Wikibon headquarters in Marlboro, Massachusetts, and as we've said a number of times, big data is big business. And I'm here with my co-host, Jeff Kelly, and Jeff, one of the things that you said to me early this year is that you really wanted to dig in to the use cases of big data. I mean, at SiliconANGLE and Wikibon, we love to talk about the technologies and the companies and the startups and the whales and the barracudas, but really what Jeff, you were saying is you wanted to dig into how people are actually applying big data technology to create a business capability, and that's what we're gonna talk about today, isn't it? Absolutely. I think one of the things, one of the premises we've laid down was that really big data practitioners are gonna build a lot more value than the big data vendors themselves, because really there's just so much potential in all that data that's being created, both in general and internal data centers and outside on the World Wide Web and in other places. So, I absolutely want to dig into some of the use cases, what people are actually doing with big data. So today we're joined by Eric Sall, who's vice president of product marketing in the information management group at IBM. Eric's been, of course, playing a pivotal role at IBM in terms of building out their big data platform and working with customers in terms of understanding the best use cases. So, Eric, welcome to the queue. Thanks for coming on. Thanks, Jeff. So, before we kind of dig into the use cases that you're seeing most commonly, why don't we start with one of the issues I think we see with a lot of companies that are getting started with big data is sometimes they invest in the technology first before they identify some of the more, the initial use cases. What's your experience in terms of when you see companies doing that, is what should come first really, technology or the use case? Yeah, well, I think the, what comes first is really the use case because there's a lot of excitement about big data technologies because kind of what that enables. But the fact is that it's not the technology that is exciting, it's what you can do with the technology and people understand that viscerally that with all this data coming from all these different places and increasing volumes of coming at you faster than ever, there's so much to work with. So, really what you have to focus on first is what am I trying to accomplish and then you apply the big data technologies to solve that problem. But Eric, we need Hadoop. Do you hear that a lot from customers? We got to get on this Hadoop thing. Yeah, yeah. Well, people do say that and some people even equate big data with Hadoop and Hadoop is obviously a very important part of big data. Big data is much more than that. It has to do with your structured data as well, your warehouse. It has to do with streaming analytics. It has to do with predictive analytics. It has to do with content. So all of this stuff comes together to solve some new kinds of problems. So when you go into a new customer situation, they're starting to think about big data. They say things like Dave just mentioned. Well, we think we need Hadoop. You say, well, wait a minute, let's talk about use cases first. How do you kind of the first approach to that conversation? Is it, you know, let's focus on a vertical application is a more of a horizontal case, a use case you're looking at. How do you actually start to identify those initial use cases that I can give them customer side? Yeah, what I do first is kind of focus on try to get them to talk. You know, what are the problems you're trying to solve? And sometimes they go down a vertical path, but sometimes they go down a horizontal path and either path is fine because it's really about understanding their problem and then how these technologies can help solve that problem. So that's the way we think about it. And there's a difference in big data also from traditional technologies because in a traditional technology, the way it's worked in the past is you have your, the problem you're trying to solve and you structure a schema and a database and you kind of like have it all figured out upfront. These are what my users are trying to do. And so therefore here's what I'm delivering. But in big data, it's a little bit more interactive and creative and iterative. And so it's more about, okay, so what's the kind of business initiative you're trying to solve? What kind of data do you have? What do you want to know? What are some of the things you'd like to explore and understand better? And so it's a little bit more creative and it's a little bit more unstructured, not only in the data, but also in what you're trying to do with that data. Last year we did a survey and we asked users, big data practitioners, what's the biggest challenge that you faced? And one that came back, a theme that came back was we're trying to figure out what to do with all this data. We're trying to figure out how to monetize it. Are we beyond that or is that still a big theme? It's still a big theme. People are still trying to figure out, in some cases they've got a lot of data and they know there's value in it, like telecommunications companies, for example. They have a lot of information about who's calling whom. They have a lot of information around usage of their cell towers and drop calls and how many people are signing up at what times of the year and all that kind of stuff. They've got tons of data in these call data records and what they're looking for is how can I use this data to serve my customers better, to retain them better, to offer new kinds of pricing plans which might make them be more connected to me as a company. So we're seeing that very strongly in telecommunications. We're seeing similar thinking in financial services and banking, in retail, insurance. All of these companies are trying to do similar things is use the data that they have to improve that customer relationship, to optimize operations, to reduce risk. All of those things are possible to solve by just more creative thinking about the data you already have. All right, so let's dive right in. So I understand you've identified five use cases, really, that you've identified over the course of time kind of working with some of your clients. These are some initial use cases you found to be most effective. So let's just dive right in. So what's the first kind of big data use cases you're seeing? So these use cases came from real analysis of lots of engagements with clients and we really start to see these patterns. So the first one is this notion of big data exploration because virtually any company of any size and even smaller companies have lots of information of different types and different sources in different places. Some of this data is structured. Some of it might be unstructured. Some of it might be within the walls of their company. Some of it might be coming from social media or from some other vendor that they don't actually own the data but they have access to the data. And what they're trying to do is solve certain problems. So the idea here is to explore that data, it go across all these boundaries and try to get it at an answer. So an example of a client that's doing this is an aircraft manufacturer. If you stop and think for a second, they've got a very complicated business. Their product has got thousands of pieces to it, sub-assemblies, and by the way, airplanes now have a lot of software too. So it's a complicated hardware and software product. And not only that, but it's customized for every customer. So now you've got this complicated product that's customized for every customer and a problem happens. How do you know where that problem came from? Is that problem gonna recur? Is it problem, how serious is that problem? Does it affect other clients as well? This is literally a life and death matter for them. So what this client is doing is they've created a maintenance war room based on exploring all these different types of data service reports from the field, how things were built originally, anecdotal data, all this stuff coming together, and they're doing it to try to quickly solve maintenance problems. And they think they're saving about $36 million a year just based on the ability to bring together this information, solve problems more quickly. Yeah, that's an interesting example because a lot of people when they think about it, for instance, airlines, you think about the booking system, but the real mission critical system is the maintenance piece. Yeah, if you miss a booking, that's all right. They're gonna fill up the flight anyway, but the maintenance piece, like you said, it's not talking about lives here. That's right, absolutely. And it's a lot of different moving parts as you mentioned. I mean, you've got to bring data together from both the software, how the hardware's performing. I mean, there's a lot of different areas there. But the idea was struck me that you mentioned, it's kind of bringing in data from different areas and breaking down those data silos, which of course is a problem we've had in the enterprise for years. We've taken different approaches, tried to breaking that down, sort of bring it all together in enterprise data warehouse. Sometimes I'm in DM initiatives, kind of trying to focus on that. Do you think big data is really gonna solve ultimately that data silo problem in the enterprise? Well, it's a big part of the solution. You know, it's funny, because big data is part of the problem too, I would say, because the data is growing in such leaps and bounds that, and there's no stopping it. You're not gonna stop the data growth. You're not gonna stop the fact that there's more types of data coming in. The real thing is what can I do with this data? How can I get value from it? So it's not just adding to the cost of your infrastructure, but it's actually giving you value in your business. So take that example that you gave. How did IBM specifically help the client solve that problem? So we help them, in that case that client is using our InfoSphere Data Explorer product, which allows you to, it is able to interact with lots of different types of information as connectors to all sorts of different sources, different enterprise applications, as well as raw files, and be able to put it together and it can create a clustering of related information so you can more easily get the meaning out of the data. So it's not just accessing it, but it's actually, how am I gonna interpret that information and find the answer I'm looking for? So the outcome is really making people more productive.  Is that right? Yeah, but that sounds like a very soft benefit, right? People being more productive when they can go home a little earlier or something like that. But this is not a soft thing. This is a very hard thing, because if they've got a serious maintenance problem, that plane can't be in the air. So they're losing revenue every single day when that's happening and they're losing, their clients are losing revenue, but they're actually losing future business if they can't get the planes back in the air. So it's compressing time to resolution. That's right, and this is very serious business to them. Yeah, yeah. So let's move on to use case number two, kind of getting that 360 degree view of your customer. Talk about that a little bit. Yeah, so of course 360 view of the customer that's not exactly a new idea that's been going on for a couple of decades, right? But what's new is the fact that clients are now looking at, how can I get closer to that customer by leveraging everything I could possibly know about them? Because what's more important, whether you're selling to a consumer or you're selling to a business, what's more important than knowing that customer really well? And knowing what they want, knowing what they're thinking, knowing what products they have from what products they're interested in, et cetera. So this is about extending that 360 view to incorporate new sources. It might be things like what they're saying in social media. It might be what they're saying to your customer support center that might be captured in call records and texts that's not easily accessed in the past. And how can you take all this information, put together a better profile of what that customer really wants and serve them better? So an example, there's a client here that we have that is a medical equipment manufacturer. So they're B2B type of client. But they have a call center. And so their clients call into the call center, sometimes it's with problems and complaints. Sometimes it's to check the status of an order. Sometimes they wanna ask a question around capability or about another product. And so the fact is that when you have a person from your company talking to the client, that's called a customer facing interaction. You want to maximize every customer interaction for everything it can do to make that customer more loyal, to increase the revenue per customer to make sure they don't leave, et cetera. So what they've done is they've implemented a procedure or initiative they call one more question. And the idea here is to take that interaction, solve the client's problem, answer the question, and then ask one more question that's highly customized to everything you can know about that client. Not only what question they asked with, but what products do they own? What problems have they had? Have they paid their bill? All this type of stuff, right? And so the idea here is that you've got them on the phone, that's a golden opportunity to ask the right question. But it has to be the right question. If they called in complaining, you don't wanna try to sell them something else, right? Or if they haven't been paying their bills, you probably don't wanna sell them anything else, right? You wanna ask them to pay their bill. On the other hand, if maybe you've introduced a new product and this client hasn't bought it yet, but it goes really well with the product they have. So you might wanna say, hey, do you know about this new announcement we made that would go really well with product A? We've got now product B. But you can only do that if you armed that customer-facing employee with all the possible information so that they can maximize that golden opportunity. So what's the tech and the solution behind this one? Well, this is using a combination of capabilities, master data management, also uses the data exploration types of capabilities as well, information integration. These are all parts of the solution here. And again, the reason to do this is to really arm that customer-facing employee with just the right information they need at that moment when they need it. It's at the point of impact. And that can relate or be applicable to both B2B, as you mentioned in that example, but of course, B2C. Are there, when you're dealing with customers, are there significant differences in the way you approach that issue if it's a B2B versus a B2C player? You know, it's really pretty similar. A customer is a customer. Of course, the actual content will be different, right? And the types of interactions you might have. With a B2B, it's a little bit more complicated because you might be interacting with a purchasing agent or you might be interacting with an actual user or an IT person or whatever. So it's got to be customized to the role that that particular person plays. But conceptually, it's pretty similar in the sense that you're trying to maximize that client relationship in whatever form it is and do it in a customized way because then you can get a better benefit. All right, so let's move on to use case number three. Okay, well, the third use case that we've noticed as a pattern is really extending security and intelligence systems. Now, as we know, security is becoming a bigger issue in this world in a lot of ways. And of course, this can be things like perimeter security as somebody breaking into your building or your house. It can also be IT security type things and it could be things like threatened fraud as well. And now, of course, the particular situation here is you're dealing with a bad guy and bad guys don't cooperate. They don't try to do things in a way that makes it easy for you to figure out what they're doing. In fact, they try to do the opposite. So the idea here is that companies that are trying to extend their security systems, they're trying to use all available data. So that increasingly includes video content but it's also things like comparing video content with financial content, with email traffic, with social media. It's all these different types of information that can be pulled together to get a better picture and to find more connections, patterns in a very unclear situation. So it's about making a security solution better by leveraging more types of information. So a lot of the investment in security, as you know, has been on logically keeping the bad guys out. And as you pointed out, it used to be the bad guys would get in, they'd spread a virus, make a lot of noise, take credit for it, but now they don't want you to know that they're in there. I saw a stat the other day that after an infiltration, it's on average takes over 400 days for a corporation to recognize that they've been infiltrated. So the security model seems to be shifting from not, you know, 80% of the spending is keeping the bad guy out and it seems to be shifting to, okay, is he in or she in? And then how can we find that person? Is your technologies and your solutions involved in sort of extending that probe and widening the scope of security? Right, so yes. And you know, again, we're not talking just about IT security, but actually physical security as well. But yes, it's always changing. I mean, that's why it's the bad guys not cooperating, right? They're getting smarter, they're getting more clever, they're coming from all around the world. And what you really want to do is outsmart them or at least understand what's happening and try to be able to combat it as quickly as possible and to be able to investigate it after the fact too soon. An arms race, you're saying. It really is an arms race. And again, it's like this is reality of security, right? It's never gonna stop. It's about getting better and better and better. Okay, we seem to have a pattern here. How do you guys do that? Well, I think in the case of security extension, it's very often about dealing with more sources of data. When you talk about big data, very often people talk about this volume, variety, velocity, right? And in the case of security data, it's a lot of it has to do with a variety element. It has to do with things like video and audio information which can be very, very helpful. And it has to do with taking in machine data too, like from a security system. You know, what door did they come in? You know, it's like something like that is can be useful information, right? And it's also about, in the case of security, it's also about velocity because the fact is that you want to detect that somebody's trying to get into the building as it's happening, not the next day when they've already been in and done what they've done and left, right? So it's really about trying to be more real time in detecting all sorts of unknown security breaches which might be happening. So you mentioned video. That's an interesting type of data that's now being brought to bear in terms of security. What are some of the things you're seeing companies doing out there with the video? I mean, imagine it relates to physical security. What are some of the interesting things they're doing with that? And what are the technology challenges you face as a vendor in terms of developing technologies that can really harness and make sense of that data? Right, well, you know, every source of information has its own like formats and usually there's lots of formats and lots of different challenges.  And so there's increased, and of course, if you've got kids, you know, if there's increased amount of video online, they're constantly creating video. Everybody's a producer now of video. So there's a lot of stuff online too. So it's not just about security, it's also about things like a consumer products company understanding what people are saying about their products, right? And, you know, companies are really trying to, you know, embrace that video content as an actual source of understanding of their customer and of opportunities that are out there. So let's move to a number for kind of operations analytics. Tell us what that's about.  These can be IT systems like with logs and stuff like that and click streams, but it can also be equipment like an oil rig or, you know, an oil platform and everything's got data throwing that's throwing off now. Electronic meters is another example. There's intelligence in cars now as well that is coming out, data's coming out of that. So everything is throwing off this data and the opportunity there is to use that information to make better decisions around whatever you're trying to optimize. So an example of this would be like the smarter buildings type of thought, right? So you may have read about there's a lot of interest in new buildings that are much more energy efficient, that are optimized in every way, that are smarter around, you know, detecting upcoming problems so you can do predictive maintenance and deal with a problem before it actually happens. And all this is about using this kind of machine to machine data and use it to get smarter around what kinds of processes you can put in place in that particular, you know, building system. And so it's detecting things like, gee, if the boiler room is overheating, maybe there's some problem going on there, right? Or if there's a leakage in the water system or if there's an unusual anomaly, a pattern of usage that shouldn't be happening in the middle of the night, maybe there's a security problem, right? That you can, so all of this machine data can be used to get better information as well. So what's IBM's play with the sort of Internet of Things, industrial internet, whatever you wanna call it? What do you guys do in there? Well, we're doing a ton of work in our Smarter Planet initiative, and especially in the area that we call Smarter Cities. You know, there's a tremendous amount of growth going on around the world, especially in cities. And a lot of these cities have a real problem because they've got, in some cases, tens of millions of people moving into these cities and they don't have the infrastructure to support it. So for example, if you've got, you know, 10 million additional people moving into your city, how do you move them around?  How many roads do you have to build? Like, what kind of, what do you do to the trains and the bus routes? And the fact is, power plants and water systems and all that stuff. It's huge as you were in China, right? In China, in Africa, and in all throughout Asia actually too. And the reality there is that, you know, very often these cities have limitations because you can't build, you know, twice as many roads. There's no room to put them, right? And you can't put twice as many cars on the road because they'll all stop moving because there's a car in front of them all the time, right? Being smarter around these systems like transportation systems, water systems, and all the other city services. So we're seeing a tremendous amount of interest in this across various cities around the world like Stockholm, Singapore, Beijing, in places all around the world that are really trying to be a lot smarter about how they do city planning and how they maximize the use of the infrastructure they do have in place. And talk a little bit about the software technologies and other technologies behind this. Right, so in this case it would be a combination of real-time analytics, streaming analytics, where you're taking data off of like say, maybe you're measuring cars going by a particular place so that you can adjust the lights to make them go more quickly. If there's, you know, more traffic on that road, less on the crossing road, that kind of thing. They're also doing things around variable fares and stuff like that for tolls. But the idea here is streaming analytics where you're taking data in real-time, analyzing in real-time, taking action in real-time. It's often in combination of a technology like Hadoop where you might take the streaming information, get value out of that information and then put it into Hadoop for later analysis so you can do longer-term thinking around, okay, so we're seeing this increasing problem on these roads. Let's figure out a solution there, you know, that kind of thing. So real-time analysis, before you persist it, letting the machines make decisions, the traffic light is a simple but a good example, and then persisting it, identifying patterns with massive amounts of data, as opposed to maybe taking bits and pieces of samples, take the entire data set, developing those patterns, and then feeding that back in real-time. One of the interesting things that Singapore's doing is that they're trying to measure people's full travel trip.   So they've got a card that's like a, like sort of frequent flyer card type of thing, but it's like a debit card, and you can pay for any of these traffic services with that one card, and therefore they're getting the data that's a better understanding exactly what you're trying to do so that they can improve the entire system. So it's really about finding efficiencies in whether it's moving people around or moving traffic around or finding better ways to kind of run the infrastructure that supports these massive populations. That's right. Interesting. So let's move on to the final example. You've got data warehouse augmentation, which is maybe not quite as a grand idea as some of the things around a smarter cities, but it's certainly going to appeal to CIOs I know out there that have been struggling with this issue. Well, people want to know, is my data warehouse a dinosaur? Yeah, that's right, they do. And I think the other thing is they want to know, am I supposed to take all of this information coming at me and put it in my warehouse? Because my warehouse will be where all my money goes and it'll be the world's biggest warehouse, right? So companies are really struggling with that. What do they do with all this data? Do they persist everything that they not? And what about this data that they don't really know how valuable it is, right? So like say some of the social media data, for example, everybody's interested in how can they tap into social media? But the fact is you're not going to want to store all the Twitter feeds that you can find. I mean, that's just ridiculous, right? So what many companies are doing are doing something like a landing zone for information where they'll bring in some information with this idea of exploring it, like trying to figure out is there value in this? What kind of value is there? Do I want to save some of this data? So which part of the data do I want to save? So that's kind of this landing and exploratory zone. And another thing that's related to this would be like a queryable archive where a lot of companies are also saying, look, I mean, I'm going to keep in my data warehouse the most current data because that's the thing I run my business on. But I sometimes want to go back to the previous data. In fact, I would like to go back several years and sometimes in certain queries, but I don't really want to make all that data slow down my warehouse. So instead, what they want to do is they want to complement their warehouse with this queryable archive, typically in a Hadoop cluster. And what they now are, that stuff is still searchable, it's still usable for queries, but it's not affecting your daily operations in the same way. So it's a way of improving performance and also reducing the cost of that infrastructure. Because it's resident in a distributed manner or is that right? Yeah, and it's because it can be on cheaper hardware. It can be on a cluster, a Hadoop cluster is typically off-the-shelf hardware that is less costly. And you're shipping the old function shipping, five megabytes of code versus a terabyte of data. That's right. So it's kind of a new archive, really. And we're in the old world, when you archive something, it's pretty much, that's the last time you're gonna see that data, for the most part. This is where you can archive that data, but actually still have access to it to actually do some analysis and still get value out of it. That's right. And it's really a new architecture for your data warehouse. It's almost like a new way of thinking about your warehouse, where you have different zones, where you're doing different types of things and they all add up to your information infrastructure. So there's a zone you're using for reporting and analytics. There's a zone you're using for exploration. There's an archive zone. There's where you're doing data ingestion. There might be a real-time zone. And you've got all of these in your architecture because you've got various problems you're trying to solve and you want to use the best approach for whichever problem. Eric, my last question is, can you talk about the role of services in these use cases? What role do services play? I mean, I'm obviously a big services company. I've often, I said it's a secret weapon, but it's no secret. It's a weapon. It's like the big weapon that everybody knows about. Talk about the role that services played here and how it fits. Well, services plays a big role here because whenever you have newer technology where people are trying to solve new types of problems, they don't have all the skills in-house. And really what they're looking for often is advice based on what our other clients doing. And that's where our services arm really comes in because we've got deep expertise in virtually every industry. And so we have real experience with similar clients trying to solve similar problems in your industry. And so people really like to tap into that. But I think there's also the notion of for a lot of companies, they are under pressure. The world has changed around them. Everything's moving faster. Brands that used to be built over decades can now be destroyed really quickly. If you make a bad decision, all of a sudden everybody's complaining about you online and your brand is hit so quickly. And customer relationships are more fleeting. And the customers have more power. They're more demanding. They have an immobile device where they're interacting with you. So for a lot of our clients, they really see a need for transformation where they want to really think about how could they use the big data in analytics to improve their competitive position, their fundamental competitive position as a company. In that case, the services and the expertise that we bring with our global business services is very relevant because it has to do with understanding where that industry is going, not just understanding what the technology is. So I had one last question for myself. So really, if you could speak directly to CIOs and they're struggling with this issue of how do I get started? Not necessarily the technology, like we've been talking about, the use cases. What advice, one piece of advice, if you had to pick one, would you give CIOs who are trying to kind of identify that first killer use case that's going to kind of catapult their whole big data project? Yeah, well I would definitely say start with whatever business need you have. Right, so this idea is, what is the fundamental thing that your CEO, your CEO is worried about? And then think about what information you have that could be utilized to help that CEO make a better decision or drive that initiative more effectively. And then focus your big data effort around contributing to that important business initiative. Because that's the way to make things happen. It's the way to come up with the right focus for what you want to do. And it's also the way to get the budget and senior sponsorship you need in a big data initiative. All right, Eric, listen, thanks very much. I appreciate you coming in. A lot of meat on the bone with IBM's story, you say deep industry expertise and really appreciate your insight. So thanks for coming on theCUBE. And thanks for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante with Jeff Kelly and we'll see you next time.


I'm the United States Census taker. Answer all his questions. It will mean better community conditions, accurate congressional representation, and by law, census information is as confidential as your vote. Helping the census helps Uncle Sam. Make sure you count in America's future.


This research focused on improving the thermoelectric properties of a half-hustler, HH, compound by reducing its defects. A pressure-controlled annealing process was used to reduce the number of point defects and modify the microstructure of the material. As a result, the carrier mobility increased by 100%, leading to a maximum power factor of 78 Wcm1k2, which approaches the theoretical value for a single crystal of the same material. Additionally, the material exhibited a high average Zt of 0.86 at temperatures ranging from 300 to 873k, which is higher than other HH materials. Furthermore, the device based on this material showed a 210% improvement in cooling power density over by 2 Te3-based devices and a conversion efficiency of 12%. This research demonstrates a promising strategy for optimizing HH materials for near-and-temperature thermoelectric applications. This article was offered by Hange Nzu, Wenjie Li, Aminos Aries Mars, and others. We are article.tv, links in the description below.


Yeah, I can talk about willingness. I can talk about readiness. I can talk about mastery. It's great to celebrate the willingness. Yeah, it's have a party with the willingness. Have a party with the little willingness. If you find yourself a little willing for the moment during the day, you can really celebrate that little willingness. You don't even have to think about readiness or mastery because the readiness will be there when it's there. It's something that goes beyond time and space, so it's not like people will say, how can I increase my readiness? Really, you're ready or you're not. It's not something that you can just kind of do exercises or whatever. I'm going to increase my readiness for God. You start to see it as pretty laughable. But willingness is something that you can kind of bring it to the table. You can bring it to the table. And then when you're tempted to get frustrated or doubtful or sad or any of those temptations, you can bring some willingness in there. You can keep bringing it and bringing it and bringing it and bringing it. And it's really wonderful, so I think willingness is something to celebrate. Readiness is a whole different thing. You can be really, really willing and not ready. And don't be frustrated if you're willing and not ready because when you're not ready, you're not ready. You can't close down on yourself and judge yourself for that. We don't do that with children and children are learning how to walk. The toddlers are taking their first steps. We don't scold them when they fall down to their knees. We scoop them up and we say, oh, we scoop them up and we scoop them up again and we scoop them up again and keep scooping them up. We don't scold them and say, you are not ready to walk. That's not encouraging. So we should be just as kind as we would be with a toddler, with ourselves, with our mind training.  Some of you might have seen Way of the Peaceful Warrior, you know, with Socrates and Dan Milman. He goes through a lot and it's not till, you might say, towards the end of the movie that he starts to have some experiences of mastery when he's on the rings. Socrates' voice is really loud in his mind. He's immersing in the mastery and the announcers are going great and he's up there and he might say he's reflecting in his performance, so to speak, where he's so at ease that it's just the spirit flowing through him. But that's mastery and again, you know, that's something you shouldn't use that as a comparison device ever because that makes it personal and this is about letting go of the personal. And mastery comes only through letting go of the personal of seeing you can't take anything personal, including enlightenment. If you believe enlightenment will be a personal accomplishment that you'll be able to notch on your belt, oh my, that's going to be a disillusionment because there really aren't enlightened persons. It would be like having an enlightened mask. And there aren't any enlightened masks, so it's good. You can start to see it as another one you can give up. You can quit comparing yourself to enlightened masters or enlightened beings because there aren't any.


Good morning and welcome to Moments with Melinda. It's nice to have you with me today. My guest is Beth Sacks. Hi Beth, how are you? Great, how are you Melinda? This is my thrill and honor. I'm really good and it's just so great to have you on my show today. For my viewers, let me share a little bit about Beth Sacks. Beth has been in the field of sustainable energy, energy efficiency and renewable energy for 40 years. Probably even longer than that. She co-founded the Vermont Energy Investment Corporation, a mission-driven, nonprofit, the services efficiency of Vermont, right? Yes, that's right. And then many, many, many other things that you have done. So I wanna share with our viewers that 40 years ago, I met you and your late husband Blair. And it was when we were just starting division for the Burlington Waterfront. And you all, and I think John Quinney might have been involved and maybe a few other people. And you met with us, with Lisa and I, to talk about district heating for the waterfront. Yes.  So that was when you and I first met and then we served on boards together and it's been a wonderful friendship over the years. Now, you co-founded VEIC with your late husband, Blair. Beth, can you talk a little bit about the early days and what inspired the two of you to take on this project? Well, it's interesting. When Blair and I met, it was before the oil embargo of 1972 and energy was not an issue. It was too cheap to meter. That was the quote. And so I met Blair and a group of really interesting architects who were interested in trying to think about architecture that had low impact on the land. And so when I met Blair, he was building a one acre inflatable bubble that was the Antioch campus in Maryland. It was beautiful and it was just great. And right just in the middle of doing that, the oil embargo hit and a lot of people who had been interested in that kind of architecture all swiveled to how can we make buildings that are more efficient and use less energy? And from there, we just, it's just been an interesting journey. The reason we started VEIC in particular was was my mother lived in a row house in Baltimore city. I don't know if you know what those look like, but they're tall and skinny. So she lived in one that was four stories, pretty typical. And one or two rooms of her build per story. It was always hot on the top floor, unbearably hot. And it was always cold, really cold on the first floor. And she was trying to get some help to figure out what to do. And there was nowhere she could go where someone would say, let's figure out what you need. The only options she had were contractors who were trying to sell her some kind of heating system or cooling system or whatever. So Blair and I realized that what we needed, what people needed was an advocate. They needed someone who was interested in helping them very specifically figure out what they needed without being tied to any kind of equipment or even any kind of energy source, like electricity or gas or anything like that. And so that was really how we figured out that this was a service that was needed and started VEIC. So it really bloomed out of even a very strong social justice premise. Were you part of the 60s movement? You were. And I believe that our generation, I mean, Earth Day, all of it was starting to think about that. But Beth, you in particularly have significantly influenced the global sustainability energy industry. So can you talk to us about that and how your life's worked since the early 1980s focused on a healthy planet? Well, I think it's always been an issue of what's fair, what's fair and what's good for sustaining life on Earth. And so when I first heard about the concept of global warming so many years ago and what was first being discussed, it was a terrifying thought. The idea that we could be doing so much 40, 50 years ago that was we wouldn't know what the impacts would look like. And yet people weren't gonna respond until you could, until you could see them. And that's really scary because then it was gonna be too late and now I fear we're at that point. So I think that it's always been for me an issue of we're trashing this place and we need to take better care of it. And the people who are gonna be affected first and hardest are the people who can't afford to make choices because they don't have resources. Does that answer your question? Yes, it does. And so tell me what brought you in Blair to Vermont? It's a long story I could try to make short but I worked early on after the oil embargo in Montreal at a research institute that was related to McGill. And Blair was going to architecture school there and building solar buildings on Cree Reserves in Northern Quebec, that was his thesis. And we met a lot of people who we worked really well with and then we all scattered. Blair and I went and started a business out in California, the only for-profit I've ever worked for, still traded on NASDAQ today. And then we moved to Montana after we got that off the ground, brought all the people back who were friends who had worked together in Montreal, worked at the National Center for Appropriate Technology in Butte, Montana. And after a couple of years decided we wanted to all come back to the East Coast but we wanted to live on our own sides of the border because half of us are Canadian and half from the US. So we picked Newport, Vermont off a map and Blair and I moved there. Oh, that's so fascinating. I had no clue, I had no idea. And you and Blair co-founded Vermont Energy Investment Corp and it is a non-profit. Yes. And it's best known in Vermont and around the world as implementing the first statewide energy efficiency utility and reducing the energy cost is the goal, especially for low-income folks. Talk to us a little bit about that. Well, the idea, for better or worse, maybe it's success that efficiency of Vermont is now kind of a household word and it feels like an institution. But when we thought about the concept 25 years ago, it was very radical. The idea that you could have a regulated utility that would not sell electricity, that would instead contribute to what we need by saving electricity. And so it had never been done before. And we had some great people in state government and great people, regulators in the state who were all interested in making this happen. And we did. And since then, we have an efficiency utility in Washington DC. We helped start efficiency New Brunswick, efficiency Nova Scotia, all over the country and around the world. Well, mostly Canada and the United States. Well, it's extraordinary. And your focus has always been to reduce the environmental costs also of energy use. Not just this, what it costs for the user of energy, but also the environmental costs, you merge those two. And certainly when you came to us to talk about district eating, it was such a novel. I mean, the thing about you and Blair is your thinking was so forward thinking decades and decades and decades before Al Gore's incredible movie. You guys were, I just find that extraordinary that what, talk to me a little bit about your childhood and what is it about you growing up that made you be such a forward thinking leader? Not just in this industry, but in your life. Talk to us a little bit about that. Well, I grew up in a Jewish ghetto until I was 10 years old in Baltimore. And then my parents moved us to a place outside between Baltimore and Washington that was completely undeveloped and didn't like Jews. And so I was not treated very well. I was spit on and things like that. And so I just got this incredible sense of I think fairness and what's fair and what's not. And that really compelled me. And so in high school, it was before girls could wear pants to school. Remember that? And I organized the campaign all of my senior year and we got suspended every month when we organized girls wearing pants and then we all got sent home. I have a really strong sense of what's fair and what's not, I think. And I don't know, that probably came from my parents and from being not treated very fair, very nicely when I moved at 10 years old. And you were a child. But what? I was expelled from high school for profanity and insubordination, as a matter of fact. Well, that does not surprise me. Well, we don't need to go into the details. So we don't, but it's a bless your heart for being a champion of women and so many other. But what inspired you to move into energy was that your mother living in that high rise that, because the field that you went into was not necessarily one that women went into. And you not only went into it, you crashed the glass ceiling and transformed the way that people look at energy around the world. So talk to us a little bit about what that electrical charge was that got you to focus in that direction. I think, you know, the oil and borgo made a huge impact. I don't know.  We'll talk about that. We had to line up to, you know, people had to line up and you could get gas on different days depending on what your license plate number was and things like that. And it was hardship for a lot of people. Was it during the Nixon administration? Was it during the Nixon administration that that happened? Or was it? Yes. It was the Nixon and so tell us a little bit about it it basically there was an oil and borgo and because I can't, I don't remember that very well because I'm, but it went and people were in lines for hours and hours trying to get gas for their vehicles.  And where were you when that happened? I was in Maryland and the, you know, it's interesting because the oil and borgo in 72 was not about scarcity. It was about control. I think now it's much more about control. I mean about scarcity and the impact on the environment.  And so it was really, I think in some ways more political in a way. And how old were you? But it just made me realize that there were such different ways of doing things. Like solar energy that you could capture it and you could store it and you could use it and that you were just more self-reliant. When did that first, when did solar power come into your brain? Because it certainly didn't come into most of ours for, I mean, were you a science? Were you, were you? No, not at all. I was, if anything, an art major, but I made up, I went to seven colleges and made up a degree in what they call, we call the environmental design. And Blair, who you've referred to quite a few times, he had, I met him and met this group of architects that were so fascinating, who were first working on inflatables and less impact on the land. And it was just a really easy transition to passive solar. How did you build buildings that wouldn't need energy or nearly as much? But you also have run and founded a very extraordinary nonprofit, VEIC, and you were the founder and the executive director for years and it was a big business. So you must have honed your business skills as well or did that come natural to you? That was just luck. I mean, I don't know, Melinda, if you've had the same thing, we didn't get trained in anything, right? We just learned it on the job. Yeah, I mean, when Blair and I started VEIC, we thought it might grow to 25 people and at its height, I don't know what it is now. It had 320 employees and I think a $95 million budget. And I remember the first time we had a $1 million budget and I thought, oh my Lord, we run a million-dollar company. And now it's $100 million. Yeah. Well, I call it the power of naivete, that as women, we weren't pushed into the careers that certainly women today are choosing. And for me, I had to make it up as I went along and fortunately, I opened the right doors and got through and I had a lot of support from people who knew what they were doing, but I call that the power of naivete. And so I want to segue now a little bit to kind of where we are. We're halfway through our interview here, where we are as a plan and as a society. Do you believe, Beth, that the state of Vermont and local community during enough to help folks without means to switch to renewables? No, but I think that even the fact that we now acknowledge it is really important, that there's... 10 years ago, I was always trying at VEC to talk about the confluence of energy justice, environmental justice and social justice always. And now I feel like it's part of the dialogue at the state level, at the federal level, it's amazing. And I think there's an awareness that we've never had before. And so I do think that it looks promising. I think that people really, when making investments in new programs and new program designs, it's not an afterthought anymore. How is this gonna have an impact on low income people and people with less means and disadvantaged communities? So do we have time to do it? I hope so. Well, so I wanna just challenge you a little bit on that because 10 years ago, we put in solar panels and for 10 years we didn't have an electric bill and then they changed the rates through the utility. And now we're getting less back in the net metering than we did before. And we just paid off the mortgage. So that, I think I actually wrote a commentary about that just a few weeks ago because it bothered me that, and we were able to do that. We were able to get a mortgage and do that. But how many people can do that? I remember meeting Bernie Sanders. You might've been there for a VBSR meeting. You might've been in that room when Bernie said, every house in Vermont should have a solar panel. Every house across the country should have a solar panel. And that was what, 15, 20 years ago. So I'm just wondering if there's more that we can do as a state to help people who don't have the means to switch to renewables, to do it, to make it so that it's not a financial burden for them. Well, I have this depressing thought that I'll put out there, which is the amount of money that we have spent over the last 25, 30, 40 years, trying to convince people to put solar on their roofs and insulate their houses is phenomenal. And I just, I would love to collect that information and see if, what if we just spent it all on buying it and doing it?  And I think we're still art of that mindset that really that it's gonna happen in the market. And personally, I don't think it's gonna happen through the market. I think it's gonna happen through policy and building codes and standards and mandates. I think it has to, I don't think we have time to convince people to do the right thing. Well, I did the research and it would be $4.2 trillion to get solar on every building in this country. So I did my research on, I don't know that, and it would take a few years of taking some money out of our defense budget, but I think that we could start moving in that direction where our government helps people to say, look, let us do this for you. We'll come in and do this for you in the same way that they build roads and they keep up our roads. It should be. Or F-35s. We won't even, don't even need to go there. But yes, okay, so you and I need to, and I'm sure we're gonna stay right on this issue. Now I wanna move on to you're being a strong advocate for women and women's issue. And I know like me, we've talked about this. You must be deeply concerned about the current affairs around access to reproductive healthcare for women around the country. How are you feeling about the way things are going in our country for women on that? No, it's just shocking to me. You and I are of a certain age and we could possibly have gotten pregnant before Roe v. Wade, you know? And the idea that, and that was terrifying back then. And we take it, I don't take it for granted, but most people, younger than me do, and I'm glad they do. And they should, but this is, I mean, this is all just about politics. This is all just about getting, having the right people in office who care about this. It's absolutely a travesty. It's hard to believe that it happened. And it's a way of holding women down. Now I wanna recognize you that in 2016, you received the Leadership and Achievement Award from the Northeast Energy Efficiency Partnership. You were honored as an influential champion leader and innovator to unleash the power of energy efficiency as equitable, affordable, and sustainable energy resource. Talk to us about getting that award and how that felt for you. Certainly it was so well-deserved. Well, you know, it's funny. It was, I think it was called the Lifetime Achievement Award. And I think it was the same year that I got, I was honored to get the VBSR Terrieric Award. That's right. I think they were in the same year. And I thought, I'm not done.  But it was a great honor. They both were a great honor, both of them. And I do wanna recognize the Terrieric Award because I was there for that event and it was so well-deserved. Now, you have been saying that all people need and deserve clean air, clean water, and the means to support themselves and the freedom to live their lives with dignity. With the situation in this country where democracy and human rights and freedoms are being challenged, how do we make strides amidst these times we are living in now? It's a big question. I think for me, a big part of answering that question personally was creating an institution such as VAIC that really, that really respected people that created a workplace that was dignified and fair and equitable and not sexist and not homophobic and, you know, racist. And I think that to me, creating those kinds of models and institutions is really important. So when I go and talk to people and meet people who worked at VAIC, there are hundreds of people who have come and gone from there and gone off to do other work in other places and are continuing to do really great work and do it in, and one of the things that I hope I have done is with the young staff who have started at VAIC, started to create expectations that this is how we can work together. And to me that workplace is really important. Because they take that with them, that becomes their internal way of doing business. And then when they have a staff and they're managing, they say, I want to manage it the way it was at VAIC. Now you state a lot about efficiency, that efficiency comes first. So for my viewers who are watching, can you talk to us a little bit about how they can become engaged and take advantage of the services at Efficiency Vermont. And to my viewers, I just want to also tell you that you should go to the website, which is www.veic.org. There's so much information on that website. It's a great website. But how do my viewers get involved in the Efficiency Vermont program, Beth? Well, that's interesting because I've been away from that for quite a while now. But I think, I know that the customer support team is phenomenal. They don't, it's not a group of people who answer the phone and then find somebody to give an answer to people. They have become experts themselves in so many areas. And they're incredibly helpful. I mean, I think that they are just a real gem at VAIC. And so I really wouldn't hesitate to tell people to just call them and they have so much information and interest caring about helping people find what they need. And if they don't, they'll find who does. So I just say, you know, it's not a gateway. It's a really great service. So veic.org, visit the website, make a call. And Efficiency Vermont. And Efficiency Vermont. And it's- I think it's dot com. Dot com. Efficiency Vermont. I don't know why. But I've used them, certainly we use them at the project and it's personal and it's really valuable service. So talk to us about what you're working on now, Beth. Come on, what's your next big illuminating project? Well, I'm working now on divestment. I think that getting the banks and all of us out of supporting oil is a really critical piece. It's something I feel like I can kind of get my hands around. I'm working with an organization called Third Act, which Bill McKibben started about three years ago. And it's seniors who have lots of knowledge and experience and more time than they have and in many cases, more resources than when they were working. I mean, it's not just retired people, but mostly. And it has been just fantastic to me, this whole new group of people who really during their careers may never have even thought about energy and climate change and now are really engaged and are bringing skills as lawyers and teachers and artists. And it's really exciting. So I would say, go look up Third Act Vermont. We won't turn you away if you're under 60, but if you're interested, it's great. We've done a lot of different kinds of actions. We're trying to pass a bill in the legislature to divest, to have the state, sorry, divest its pension funds from fossil fuels. And I'm personally working on making sure that people understand once they do cut up their credit cards to the four big banks that are mostly, that are promoting fossil fuels, that they know where to go.  Where do you go to do banking that matches your values? So that's one of the projects I'm working on. That's fascinating. So Beth, we're coming to the end of our show. Where do you see the future of our species on a changing planet over the next couple of decades? You and I probably still have another 20 years left, but where do you see our species with the changing planet? Wow, that's a big question. I try to stay optimistic in spite of the fact that I think the changes that have happened to our climate are terrifying and threatening. And all I can do is hope that we have the wherewithal to change it and turn it around before it's too late. I don't think Saturn is the answer. I think we have to solve it. I don't think we can go there, Saturn or the moon. We've got to figure out what's going on here. And we have to do it in a way that doesn't create greater wealth for rich people and greater opportunities and wipes out 90% of the planet. And I think people also need to vote. And not every candidate's gonna be perfect when it comes to climate. And I know a lot of environmentalists hold certain politicians' feet to the fire and are very critical, but at the end of the day, you've got to measure which candidate is really supporting climate change. It may not be perfect and it may not be as much as we feel we need, but we have to be careful that we don't elect people who actually say that climate change is not real. We're gonna pull out of the Paris Accord. That's another thing. And I think environmentalists, there's a couple of things that environmentalists need to focus a little bit on reproductive health too, because population is important. And I've certainly talked to Bill McKibbin about that. And I think that that's a direction that they need to focus on, but also to be more gentle with politicians who maybe aren't perfect, but they're really where we need to go. And if we don't get behind them and support, then we could end up in a place which would be horrifically terrible for the planet and our species. So I think encouraging people to vote for the right candidate is really important. Would you say? Absolutely. And I do a lot of electoral politics trying to get people to vote, get them out to vote and get them out to vote in a progressive manner.  I totally agree with what you're saying. I think it's amazing to, I think that we have to really think about building coalitions. There are, we, you know, right now, biomass is really a very charged issue in the state. And wind has been too. And we have to go beyond those to figure out when to hold them and when to fold, you know, and when to compromise and when not to. And I think that this is such an old problem for the left. And I think our survival depends on it. Here, here, I'm so with you on this, Beth. So what words of wisdom would you give our younger generation? I know you have a son, a very accomplished son. And what would you, what would you offer our younger generations as they are growing up in a planet and in a society that will be exceedingly more challenging than certainly what we grew up with? I think be inclusive, listen to each other, respect each other. And don't shy away from expressing what's important. Don't shy away from the arguments that we need to have, discussions that we need to have. Good for you. Well, I am honored to have lived on this planet with you and known you these last 40 years.  Beth Saxure, you're an angel, I love you. And thank you so much for being on my show. And to my viewers, thank you for joining me and I will see you shortly. Have a beautiful day.


Fy enw i'r ddweud o gwbl yna gwaith cyflawn i ddweud o'r ffordd y mae'r cymuned muniol a'r cyflawn i ddechegas i ddechrau ar gyfer y synodau a'i gweithio yw oedd yn gwneud y ddweud o'r prosesau bwysig. Nid o pofio ar gyfer SSI 2022-233, the Scottish landfill tax prescribed landfill site activities amendment order 2022. Is committee content with this instrument? However, as the instrument was laid the day before the summer recess in the first of July and committed to force immediately, it has meant that there has been a period of time when the order has been law but the Parliament has not been able to consider the changes. While the committee may be content with the reasons provided by the Scottish Government in our correspondence, which can be read in the published papers for today's meeting, does the committee agree to highlight in its report that, firstly, as far as possible, the Scottish Government should avoid a situation such as this in the future and secondly, where this is not possible, it would be helpful for the Scottish Government to provide a fuller explanation of the reasons for the timing of the instrument. Under agenda item number three, we are considering an instrument subject to the affirmative procedure. No points have been raised on the draft consumer Scotland transfer of functions regulations 2022. Is committee content with this instrument? Under agenda item number four, we are considering three instruments subject to the negative procedure. An issue has been raised on one of those, which is SSI 2022261, the coronavirus Scotland act's savings provisions regulations 2022. The instrument makes savings provisions in consequence of the expiry of part 1 of the coronavirus Scotland act 2020 and part 1 of the coronavirus Scotland number 2 act 2020. Under section 282 of the interpretation and legislative reform of Scotland act 2010, instruments subject to the negative procedure must be laid at least 28 days before they come into force, not counting recess periods of more than four days. The instrument breaches this requirement as it was laid on 30 August 2022 and will come into force on 1 October 2022. In correspondence with the Presiding Officer, the Scottish Government explained that it was enabled to lay the instrument in late June to allow the full 28 days before coming into force. This was due to the fact that the final stages of the coronavirus recovery and reform Scotland act 2022 were also taking place at that time and may have necessitated further provision in the instrument. Does the committee wish to draw this instrument to the attention of the Parliament under reporting ground to J for failure to comply with lane requirements? At the same time, is the committee content with the Scottish Government's explanation provided for the breach of the lane requirements. Also, under this agenda item, no points have been raised on SSI 2022-249 and SSI 2022-697. Under agenda item number 5, we are considering two instruments not subject to any parliamentary procedure. An issue has been raised on one of those, SSI 2022-250. The act of Sederent Rules of the Court of Session 1994 amendment, Court Sittings 2022. Schedule 3 of the instrument provides an updated definition of vacation sitting days of the Court of Session from the beginning of 2024 up to the end of 2026 winter vacation. In correspondence with the committee, which can be read under published papers, the Lord President's private office confirmed that there was an error in the selection of two vacation sitting days. It noted that the days selected should have been certain Monday instead of Wednesday in both instances. The Lord President's office intends to correct this error at the next available opportunity. Does the committee wish to draw the instrument to the attention of the Parliament under the general reporting ground? At the same time, does the committee wish to welcome that the Lord President's private office intends to take corrective action by way of an amendment at the next available opportunity? Under the agenda item, no points have been raised on SSI 2022-231. Is the committee content with this instrument? Under agenda item number six, we are considering an instrument subject to approval. No points have been raised on SGE 2022-146. The Scottish Social Housing Charter November 2022. Is the committee content with this instrument? The charter was previously laid in February 2022 and subsequently withdrawn following questions being asked on behalf of the committee about whether the statutory consultation requirements had actually been met. That was still not clear in the revised charter before the committee today. In correspondence with the Scottish Government, on the revised charter, the committee asked whether there had been direct communication with all eight statutory consultees listed in section 33, subsection 2 of the 2010 act and whether any changes were made to the revised charter in light of direct communication from the statutory consultees. The Scottish Government's response, which can be found in the published papers for this meeting, lists the statutory consultees who responded to the consultation and the changes made to the charter in light of the consultation responses received. Given that the committee's likely interest in this work is the committee content that this correspondence is drawn to the attention of the local government, housing and planning committee. With that, I will move the committee into private.


Adorable guide dog puppies have stolen the show and are launched to promote this year's Formula One Grand Prix. Some of the guide dog Australia's brightest stars don coats and custom collars. Today is International Guide Dog Day and new research from Guide Dogs Victoria and Swinburne University casts new light on their critical role. Pack guide dogs have extends far beyond helping the handler to see. Since he's had his guide dog had never ever done any trekking or anything like that, but now he does the Oxfam walk every year, which is just extraordinary. The celebrated 60th birthday guide dogs Victoria has teamed up with public transport chiefs to organise a tram full of playful poochers to ride up and... nobody wanted to touch off. Guide Dogs Australia has been voted the country's most trusted charity. 30 cute and cuddly Labrador puppies are looking for new home. Change your life and build independence and freedom for another Australian. Dog in the dark was fantastic. It was such an immersive experience. I think everybody needs to do this. Absolutely life-changing experience. Very cute constituents have made their way into Victoria's Parliament House. Guide dog puppies have helped issue a public reminder that they can access all areas. This is a guide dog. Undergo months of intense training to put the best paw forward. Guide dogs Victoria. Guide dogs. Guide dogs. Guide dogs.