I'm fishing for that to him now right there. That was crazy. That was actually it sit How's it going everybody dotted away here back with some more dragon ball fighters rank matches This time playing a team of gojita blue krillin and the option so just the normal main team But with gojita. I don't know exactly why but I just really wanted to play this character Oh, yeah power. I could never achieve huh base Vegeta Let me show you let me show you something like one or two notches above the sand saga Gojita blue while he's not blue. Yeah, and you know what? I don't even need to get to the blue form Just let me cut to the chase jumping media. Okay, if that would have worked. I would have felt so good about it All right, hold them down with the beam and go for the double overhead Hey, that's who I'm actually connects. I will 100% take that dive kick alert Just to get him to fall down a little faster. Oh and we're backing up Don't want to let that assist touch me. So we got it back up He must assist in the back watch out for any super dashes Or a tag. I I did jump. Oh nice Oh, yes Yes, I'll take it an additional hit after the dive kick Oh, no, I fell. I thought I had a little more time in the air One two three four. No, it was so it was so many more I should have level three. Maybe that was the call. You know what it was the call I'm going back to it all these years later. You love to see it Do I read the spark? No, he wouldn't hurt. I'm reading the spark That was said just did nothing for me, but that was sick To him to a oh, no, this is not good. This is not good He did early spark those too much blue health on the table five bars I think he could probably take us out here. It's a weakened level one though I don't think it matters this close Oh No Well I mean the read on the spark was sick. I feel like we could take I feel like we could look back proudly Oh bitter lag jumping medium. Nope bitter lag kind of slowed us down We got to go out to yonksha to get the sliding Dude, the sparking read was so sick. It did not end well for us that that that lag actually was Horribly time for him. Did you see that yonksha turned that into a time skip mix? Did he pose for the left to right that guy was just like, well, this is a this is this just became a true 50 50 A little more lag. Hold on Okay, I super dash out of fear All right, I'll take a 2h there I was kind of looking to see if he did anything after that, but I guess we're good behind the back Oh, keep us right in his face Oh, I couldn't connect after the demand the connection got really It's it's not bad. Honestly when it's when it's fine. It's fine, but it's just chopping it in now It's I'll take a keep last night. Yeah, this is I mean what you're seeing now is perfectly fine And that I don't even mind that too much Behind the back. Oh barely enough time to block season 3.5 can't slow me down Hey, why do I keep jumping from so far? Oh, no yasha It's okay. We won't be able to die here and we still have spark That was one good thing from the sparky read is he he did use spark. So at least we were correct Early spark means it's out of the way dragon fist can't scare me now. I got it for the spark Look at all that blue life. I'm done with that.  He didn't want it He didn't want the combo. He wants to get rid of the time Which is you know, he is pretty nerve-wracking.  We're saving the option assist I've made the decision.  Okay adjust adjust Adjust we I don't know why yamcha came out, but it's whatever we were able to adjust the plan I was gonna throw every destructive disc, but level one to five level one to five level one to three We'll have to do and we get game one now a lot of people Maybe wouldn't hit rematch. I don't know. I wouldn't blame him if he didn't hit rematch But as for me, I was born in 19 frames lags never stopped me Not even once I was born in it molded by it. Watch if I wasn't molded by lag then explain this Hold on the reed didn't work Let me let me give you another opportunity to show you what uh what I really am made of Uh, this time we're just gonna go for a standard sliding. I think that's fair play Okay All right, give them the give them the full stuff No, I didn't do the downward one I'm going overhead. Hey back into the corner. That was sick Oh the mediums were not the right call there. I didn't know the I didn't know the scaling I had I think I was actually just too far away He's looking he might switch out here. No, he actually snaps me out to switch That's beautiful. Give me that perfect the fakes just so we can get base vegeta back in Super dash so we can't mess up the timing Oh, I couldn't vanish. Oh, wow Okay I accidentally threw a rock at his face, but it turned out pretty okay. I meant to do an after image You know what we're gonna start with the rocks Ooh, that that was I actually can't believe how bad of a plan that was for me All right level one just to get that space. You know what? I actually really like this level one as a zoning tool. So maybe we do that We look out for oh never mind. He's coming in Upper cut him do it. Oh, no, we couldn't do it again Go Jesus. Just gonna have to sit on the back seat for a little here Might even be looking at a level three Wow, okay It's fine. We can get up spark this get kid boo off of us Get him out of here If he does anything unsafe If he does anything unsafe, we're there One last kick should do it. All right, we're down to just goku gt Did I spark I did spark didn't I? Yeah, I did I uh, I see how I forgot about that that probably happened very recently If he does anything unsafe, we let loose Was that unsafe? I'm gonna do it again One more time It's a It's just a matter of how many times you need to use it super dash. See if we can't catch them off garden Oh, nothing Oh, no, that one that one was a whiff Oh, yeah, that one's gonna get you punished every time. Okay. I definitely thought he was gonna get aggressive there Big lag. He should still have this. I think I would have I probably even if he did drop it I probably would have given up gojita. That one would have just felt a little unfair.  I think he's trying Oh, I think he wants the dragon. I think he wants shenron Oh, no, this is a time skip battle now It's a time skip battle now. No, he's vanishing. He's lost at least one bar Oh, I think he sees a comeback attempt now. That was bad Bar cancel again, just make sure he's not getting any pressure off. Nice.  No, not if we get another drop. I was molded by it. I was born in 90 frames. Don't even judge me There is no excuse. That's all we needed. That's all we need to wrap it up That should do it. Yes KO Man that I don't know why he got so choppy to the end But we were able to clutch it out and now hopefully we can move on Okay, we are back with another opponent here and I'm going to be fishing for some two ends Oh never mind. We got to clean it. I'll just take this one then Uh, but yeah in between these I got another online match that was um Also pretty laggy. So I didn't get I didn't include it But it just reminded me that match reminded me how good gojita's new 2m is it was crazy I think I punished something full screen or something. I don't know. It was wild and wow gojita's just going to work now All right, sell is down and now kid boo I think we're gonna start that we'll probably walk back here But I'm going to be looking for another 2m as long as he doesn't super dash. I might go for it Oh the beam stopped it Oh There was still a chance that could have worked I think we were a couple for it would vanish. All right, nothing to punish All right 2h that no air movement will take it Sliding as well All right, good. I did the overhead, but I was worried cancel out of the roll So we still get the side we want I'm a level five. Do we do it? Do we do it? Just to kill the time I don't know if this is worth it, but even if you're in spark, I gotta do it actually It was never a question The best-looking level five of the game Well, blue cow kid is pretty cool too, but this one might even take the cake To it for first. Oh, it was so close It was so close bp No messed up bowie combo with yonja. Wow Uh, okay Yonja sisters one of the best of the game still All right 2m I'm fishing for that 2m now Right there that was crazy That was actually insane. Whoa. Oh my god. Why? I I guess I needed to be stopped Oh my limit break trunks All right, you know what would be really cheap if I just hit it with a little The sense of me I'm the I'm right back in there Don't vanish. Okay. Good. Wow. All right now zone with the super zone with it If he does anything risky right there No, that was a false opening Back it up back it up Fish for another 2m Right there. Oh from the good range Out of anything trunks could have done to punish Well, except maybe the key blast. I think that would have been fast enough anything else with the way he dashed forward I think it would have been too slow to stop So I'm feeling good about that Rematch. I'm ready. That was a mistake. Oh, that was a fun game What am I doing? Okay, not gonna get a lot of hits there. That's fine. I'll cancel out of that Give me the mediums the normal sliding stuff I'll take this too. I will take the normal route I wish I knew better punish routes for this I feel like my gojita hasn't evolved since early gojita times Whoa, my dp missed. Okay. That was bad big miss there with the dp deep min check Doing that. Oh never mind. He appeared behind me.  Oh not dp to him I'm just all over the place.  No, really no punish 2h would have been the uh, the anti-air appropriate move, uh, which would have really gotten me going I'll take that every day of the law. Come on. I didn't get the super portion though Please punish. No do it again No, do it the rice dragon rush works I'm losing it. I can't believe that worked All right, I think we only need one more bar after this. This is a pretty low damage super But that's yeah, that's just shouldn't change the fact. This is two bar kill curling gets in seals the deal I think we're going to throw a bean and switch right out. That's kind of sense of being is so wild We're back in there. I'm healed up. Okay. Don't want to dp. I've done that a lot Okay, we're out. Oh nice block. That was sick, but unfortunately everybody has their uh, their final moments Do it again. Okay, good. All right. Love just level one. I don't want to drop it I was too afraid this level one should kill. Yeah, okay. Low damage.  I feel like I can punish that Right, no that not right there. He got he actually got me to block Oh, if he misses one more of those we're punishing Nice missanko. I got caught. I was definitely I was doing too much movement I had a little too much back dashing in the air, but that was really good Two bars. Does he spend it here? I don't think so What a dragon rush. I never saw it coming. That's gonna be the end of gojita. I Listen, that was amazing. I did not think he was gonna grab me there See if I can't No, no jumping.  Now he's stuffing me Okay, we should be ready for that block that that's beautiful. Give me the corner Side switch combo so we can get the corner and you know what let's run the yop Now that we got the corner got the three bars as well. Let's run the yamcha I think he's the type of guy that would block the 2m.  Oh, yeah That would look he was definitely trying to block the 2m Save spark nothing to really do to kill there Oh, maybe I would have sparked earlier actually I'm thinking I was thinking about that from the ending of the combo If he does that we can punish Wow, that was sick I gotta stop testing this guy in neutral. I'm getting smoked every time. All right, we take those A bit anticlimactic but we take it that was crazy I got smoked in neutral like four times and then he tried to grab me again. I just I wasn't I didn't even dodge I think I just teched up and missed it But that was really sick great games. Hopefully you guys enjoyed this video If you did definitely let me know down below in the comment section. That was a lot of fun Honestly, I wish I would have been trying to get those 2m's from the start that I keep forgetting that about gojitas That his 2m is comically long now But while you guys are down in the comments if you did enjoy the video Make sure to leave a like and subscribe and you could also check out some other videos that should be on your screen right now That's also another really great way to support the channel Which you guys have been going crazy with so thank you so much for that But I have been dr. Doa. Thank you for watching this one all the way to the end And I will see you in the next video


They say follow your heart. So I did. Healthcare. The heart. The heart's where it's at. The best decision thus far in my entire life has been to be in the invasive cardiovascular technology program at MATC. It has enriched my intellect. I've gathered so many skills. I've gotten teamwork and leadership skills because of it and I'm very thankful for it. I've gotten the support from all my educators and never have I had such quality educators in my life. Now I have gone to a four-year institution. I've gone to a rental college and I was going for nursing and I've never had such a rigorous program in my entire life. We began with ten individuals going for the invasive cardiovascular technology program. You know how many are left? Four. I know that MATC and the professors and instructors such as Irwin will prepare me for the future and because of this rigorous program we'll be capable of giving the best patient care.


And so while we were up there, we were up there actually shooting a lot of videos and I shot Robin's video. Robin, come up here. You don't have to hide back in the background. And as soon as I met Robin and I got to know her personality, I knew she was going to be great on YouTube.  It's been great. I guess a little bit. I don't know what it is. It's weird. It's a very weird thing to be on YouTube. Anyway, you've done well and I'm really, I'm excited for you. I'm going to turn it over to Robin, but let me announce that Robin does not want you to film. If you do not have specific permission from Robin to video, please do not honor her desires and respect her. And there are a couple guys here that do have her permission and they are going to film and they are the only ones that should be. Thank you. Okay. And I'm going to turn it over to Robin. Appreciate it. I have nothing. I hear a knock on that. Okay. Great. Oh, yeah. Welcome to the first seminar of the 2019 before who's here that this is your first time here. The last year, the rubber trap rendezvous literally changed my life and I'll tell you I came and I thought, okay, I want to go to a couple of seminars, you know, pick up the information I wanted, but I didn't want to talk to anybody because I mean, believe it or not, I'm kind of an introvert. But to tell you that I parked next to a couple of great people that are right here and they were so great to me that they helped me come out of my shell and then I met Bob and I met a bunch of other people. So I really encourage you all to do the same. Just get to know the people that are next to you, man. I'm excited to see how the rigs drive up today. Weren't you guys to see what everybody is rolling up here in and I got really curious about what kind of a life all these different people are leading. Are they already on the road? How long have they been on the road? Do they want to be? So before I start my thing, let's just get to know each other just a little bit. So who here is a full-time nomad in an RV or a van or a tent or anything? Wow, so about half, right? So that means the other half of you should I go away? Should write who's interested in living mobile at least part of the time. Oh, that's great. Okay, the people that are already on the road, who's been on the road less than a year? Hi, girl. Who's been on the road more than two years? Nice. How about more than five years? I see a lady in the back. And how about, oh, well, Jude, how about more than 10 years? Wow, look at these people because they don't talk to anybody more than 20 years. Wow, that dude, I give it to you guys. I have to tell you, I did not even know that this was a lifestyle choice that was available for me or for you or for anybody until about five years ago. And so I'm going to tell you guys what my story is. If you're not familiar with my story and let's just talk about how being a nomad, even part of the time can really change your life. So I'll just tell you about me really quick. I've got some of you already are familiar with this. I'm echoey. Okay, got it. Here's the thing, you guys. I think that in life, people do what they're exposed to, right? Okay, can you hear me? Should I do a dance? What?  Once that guy, sorry. Hey, why don't you turn to the person next to you you don't know and say hello? Hello, can you hear me now? Is this thing on? Okay, cool. Is it too much? Okay, great. Well, see that was meant to happen, you guys, because you got to know some people around you, right? And later when you walk around, if you want to be social, you'll see people that you saw here and you can sit by the campfire and ask each other about your lives and, you know, what you want out of it. And if you want to be a nomad, what that means to you and get some advice from them. Okay, so what I was saying a second ago is, should I step back still? Okay. How's that? Better, you guys? It's better up here. I felt like I was going to literally shoot off the ground up here. There's vibration. Good? Okay, okay. So, like I was saying, you can tell me if you disagree or if you agree, but I think that in life, people do what they're exposed to. You know, now that I'm an adult, I think if I had known that there were other careers as a kid or, you know, paths as a kid, I would have maybe made different choices, right? Like, I say if my parents were rock stars, I probably would have been a rock star, right? Or, you know, a rocket scientist, but my parents were an insurance, you guys. It's very exciting. So, I wanted something different out of my life. I knew that I wanted to be a writer at a really young age. I studied that. I got my degree in that. But finally, I sold out to the man and guess what I went into? Insurance. Right. Because it's what I was exposed to. I just didn't know that there was a way for me to make it as a writer and pay all my expenses in a normal house, right? So, I, you know, I got my degree in writing. I worked as a freelance writer and as a literary agent and as an editor. And at night, I would try and go home to work on a novel. But, you know, that just wasn't happening because you're exhausted, right? I'm sure a lot of people out here have some aspiration for a business or to do something artistic. And it's just hard when you're working a 10-hour day and you're dealing with your commute and your bills. But I thought I had to do that to pay the mortgage, right? Well, you know, finally, I went way deep into corporate America and I had this job I absolutely hated in Seattle. And, you know, I thought that my corporate life was going to be for two years. Can anybody relate to that? You know, and I looked up over the edge of my cubicle like 20 years later and, you know, I was in my 40s and all that time had passed and I had never written that book. All the books that I could have written just had gone. They're gone now. They went away. I lost that opportunity. But, you know, I bought a condo in downtown Seattle and, you know, lived that life and had to pay the mortgage. And then one day, my co-worker and I were going to lunch and he wanted to stop by an Airstream dealer. This is probably six years ago. And I mean, I never wanted RV. I had never been in an RV ever. I never drove one. I was never in one until the one I bought online and flew to South Dakota to pick it up and drive it home. It just wasn't on my radar. When I saw people in RVs, they were retirees who looked to me like they were living in a parking lot, right? Next to each other. And I thought, well, who would want to do that? I don't even want to do that when I retire. It wasn't even something I thought about or considered, but then I walked into one of these Airstreams. And I saw this little dinette with the windows and I thought, wow, I could write there. I could write with the trees around me and my whole mind just opened up. And, you know, if you have watched my videos or read my blog, you may have heard me say before that I was never going to do it. I was never going to be a full-time nomad. It was BS. It was an escape for me. I went home at night for my corporate job for four years and dreamed about being a nomad. Because it gave me something else to think about beside my corporate job. And the more that happened, the more salty I got. I was an unhappy person. I was an unhappy camper in my corporate job. You know, when I got my condo, my boss looked at me and he smiled and he said, well, great, I love debt equity. And I said, what's that? And he said, well, now I've got you for 30 years. And the only thing I could think of was that song, you know, I sold my soul to the company store. If you guys have seen that one and I thought, I'm insurable on a wheel. I'm just working that job to pay the mortgage so I can live in the neighborhood where that job is. And it wasn't getting ahead.  And that it's a road to somewhere, but I wasn't the road that I wanted to be on, right? So I planned and I planned because, you know, that's how I relax. I do research, as you know. But then like a lot of people I've met on the road and probably a lot of you out here, I had a catalyst that changed my life and made me go on the road. And I'm going to tell you it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I mean, you know, my boyfriend is not on the road with me, but he's here. This is Doug. Say hi, Doug. He, the poor thing, the poor thing.  I've got bruises on my arms. I don't know where they came from. We got here. We had to have an emergency guy come yesterday because our water pump was broken. Now we have no hot water. Our batteries are fried and I just picked my rig up from the shop before we came here. It's all broken. And still, I woke up and said, I love this life. Couldn't be happier. I remember one time a flashlight fell on my toe and I think I broke my toe. You know, because you don't know to check if you overhead compartment. People that are now. You put heavy stuff up there and you open the compartment and stuff falls out and you get hurt. And I remember I was like, you know, in tears and I thought, I still love it. I still love it. It's the best thing that ever happened. So the catalyst that got me to hit the road was that my sister died. And some of you have heard this story before, but my sister was 46, two years older than I was at the time. And she was very competitive like I am. Her corporate nickname was the bulldog and she also worked in what? Insurance. Insurance.  So she worked these days and at night she got her MBA and about two months before she graduated, she felt a pain in her side at 46. She found out she had terminal pancreatic cancer. So, you know, I thought if anybody could be cancer, it would be my sister, you know, but it wasn't possible at that point. So I took care of her for her last six weeks. And like I've said, that's when my sister, Terry, changed my life because while she was dying, literally I think it was three weeks before she died. She turned to me and she said, do you like that job? And by the way, I have to tell you, they asked me to interview to be higher up at that job. And my sister wanted to like prep me for the interview and I just wasn't into it. I'm like, this is a terrible time and she's very supportive. And she said, do you like that job? And I said, no. And she was two years older than I was. And she said, if you were going to live for two more years, would you keep that job?  This is not what I want out of my life. Nothing is guaranteed. If I'm only going to live two more years, damn it. I'm going to do it the way that I want to do it. And I had the path filled with this. She would have loved this better. Okay. I wish you guys could all have met her. She was amazing. And actually after I said, no, I don't like that job. She goes, oh, well, I've always imagined you in Paris with a sketch pad. In fact, I have recorded a bunch of House Hunters International for you. And I wish I had told her at the time that I was looking at this RV life, but I didn't. I still wasn't telling anybody. Anybody can relate to that because I thought they would think I was nuts, right? But I knew I had the path. I lasted six more months at my corporate job. The whole time I was planning. And I, look, I'm not retired. I still had to work. And so I had to find a way to make a living on the road. And it wasn't possible for me to actually hit the road for two and a half more years. So I went back to Colorado, which is where I'm from. Six months later, I quit that job. I sold that house. Unfortunately, my mom also got cancer at that same time. So I went back to Colorado and I wrote my first two romance novels. Because I decided I had represented romance novels. I knew them. I thought it's a huge market. You know, I can make a living at that night. I liked writing them, but I thought I would write three in one year. The first one took me a year and a half. And the second one took me a year. And I didn't think I'd meet somebody great during that time, but I did. And yes, it's possible to have a relationship if you're a no-bed and your person isn't. We make it work. But the second book was released and I ordered my RV and I hit the road and I never looked back. And I want to tell all the people that are thinking about doing it that it is the best life for me ever.  I didn't know anything about boondocking or batteries or where to get water or safety or any of that. And I'll tell you that I binge watched YouTube people like Bob and Carolyn and all kinds of people for like five years trying to get little nuggets of information. Like, I'd be wondering something and I needed to get that little nug, you know? And I couldn't find it and, you know, I'm a researcher so I started doing all this research and making spreadsheets. And finally I hit the road and this is what I've learned. You want to know what I learned? Somebody's phone's ringing. I swear it's not mine. It's not mine, right? Okay, this is what I've learned about being a nomad. There's only one right way to camp. There's only one way. Boondocking. No. Your way. Your way. And I mean, yeah, boondocking because I have boondock, girl. Like, I have boondock. But my way doesn't have to be your way.  And you don't have to camp like Bob. And you don't have to camp like anybody else that you see on YouTube. Like I thought, like first of all, I saw these like solo female RVers, you know, that went out onto these dirt roads and I was like, wow, really? That's great. And I thought that's how I had to do it because I was a solo female traveler, right? Like what you're exposed to. And that is what's good for me. But I want you to know that there are as many ways to be a nomad as there are stars in the sky. And what you choose to do is up to you. And I thought that, you know, if I don't do it that way, or if I, you know, if I go off the road for a month to visit my family at Christmas, that I would be a poser, right? That is not true, you guys. I met a lady earlier today, and I won't say her name just in case. She, she's here. She literally keeps her van in the driveway of her house. In case she wants to watch Netflix without her husband. Right? So I mean, yes, I'm a full timer and I can't ever imagine having a house again. I mean, this, I can't even tell you guys how much I love it. It really is a way that you can live the life that you want to live. But while you're thinking about that, just know you're going to find your own way. That's one thing that I really want to tell you about my experience. You, you're going to find what's good for you. So don't let anybody else tell you what's good for you. And with that being said, there's a million different pieces of information flying at you, right? There's a lot of information and it's a lot to take in. So of course we're going to gravitate towards that one little thing. Better. But I'll tell you this. How many people out here are not retired that want to be on the road? Quite a few, right? Are you, how many people just want to make some extra money while they're on the road? Okay. Well, that was one of the biggest concerns for me. And I want to tell you guys that this is the first time in history that you are able to do that from the road. So it's a very exciting time for us now. I said that once in a video and somebody said, what about the covered wagons? They're not going to make a living. They're not making a living from the covered wagon.  But for us, now we can make a living from our RVs because of the internet and because there are so many different rigs. So when you look at the span of history, you're pioneers. And you should all be really proud of yourselves.  And most people don't make a choice.  And you guys did, or the people that are already on the road, it's hard to change your life. It's hard to make a choice and do that. And you did that. So that's all really exciting and you guys should be really proud of yourselves. Give yourselves a hand. Okay, so the other thing that I wanted to say about, you know, being a nomad and changing your life for the people that want to do this in the future, maybe some people that are already on the road have found this. When I fantasized about being a nomad, I actually envisioned myself in a totally different way. Right? And that's not reality.  Right? When you're alone with yourself in the middle of nowhere, you really find out who you are.  You know? It doesn't mean like you're going to go out and eat healthy food if you like junk food, right?    It does free up your budget. It does give you freedom on your time and how you look and who you hang out with.  So getting out there and doing this can be a first step, whether it's full-time or it's part-time.  Am I right? I know a lot of people really stress out about what rig to get, for example. And I've interviewed, oh gosh, I don't know, dozens of nomads now. And one constant that I found is that almost all of them want to change their rig after a year. Because it's not right for them. Like, they thought that it was right for them, but, you know, they didn't really know until they got out there. So one thing is you just have to get out there, even if it's part-time and start to do it. And, you know, join some forums and meet some other people and ask them what worked for them. And at the end of this, you know, we're going to do some questions, and I'd like people who are already on the road, either part-time or full-time, to stand up and say, I'm a nomad, this is how it changed my life. It could be bad, it could be good. I just want other people to know that. For me, it really made me discover who I am.  I work harder now than I've ever worked in my life, because that's just me. Like, I like to do stuff, right? But everybody's not going to be that way, so you just have to do it the way that works for you. And it's hard, because, like, again, we only do what we're exposed to, and there's a lot of information out there that's going to fly at you. Like, you might know a friend that's in a van, and you go, yeah, I want a van, right? And then you meet somebody who has a converted horse trailer, like my new friend Gary over there. And now I want a horse trailer, man, right? But you have to be exposed to all this different stuff to know, and it's really hard to get all the information out there. So that's why I did a series on YouTube called Be a Nomad, Change Your Life, because I wanted something all in one place where I could put all the information that I wish I had known before I hit the road. So to that end, I have a giveaway for you guys. You want to know what it is? Okay. So I have written a book called Be a Nomad, Change Your Life. Tonight at midnight, it's going to be free for the first thousand people. Now, I did it at midnight because I know that, you know, the data slows down here. And I... So sorry, guys, you'll have to wait up. But I get charged for the delivery charges on the book. So I could do a thousand. I couldn't do it for everybody. So if you're interested in the book, you know, download it. It's great. It has over 200 links. It's going to be a living resource guide. So every quarter, I'm going to go in and actually update the links for you. So as you're on the road, you can use it. But I've taken all of the interviews I've done and all of the questions I've gotten on YouTube and I've put them into the book. Like some people go, I could care less about retirement. Like I'm just living my life. And then other people go, don't tell people to check out a society. What are they going to do? They won't have any social security. So there's everything in there. I have five different ways to save for social security or save for retirement outside of a 401k. Seven different ways to get health insurance. Every discount club. What do you do if you see a bear? You know, the basics of batteries and boondocking and everything, social groups. All the things you have to take into consideration, budget, all that stuff. It's in the book. So the book is called Be a Nomad, Change Your Life. It's going to be free tonight on Amazon at 12.01. You know, it could be a couple of days before 1,000 are gone. It could be tomorrow morning. I just, I don't know. So the first 1,000 are free and I wanted to offer it to you guys because the thing I wish I had, I mean everything. Like you guys are going to be like, don't you sleep? So that's what I've got. And here's the thing, you know, here's what I want to leave you with. If I had never found this life, I'd be miserable right now. Maybe I would have found another way. But I feel really, really lucky that I found this life. And so if you guys are thinking about it or you're, you know, you're just now doing it, this is what I would wish for you. You know, question the status quo. Question, if you have to do it the way they say you have to do it. Do you? Maybe you don't, right? It just depends on what you want out of your own life. Like who are you? What do you want from your life? What do you want from your life today? Think about that stuff. And rattle your chains, you know? Rattle your chains and figure out what's going to work for you and get out there. And I'm going to take questions and I want people to tell me about helping to know how to change their life. But before I do, I just want to say to everybody out there, have happy travels and be free.


So while we spend a large amount on BC Emergency Health Services, one of the largest emergency health services in North America, one of the only province-wide systems in Canada, we are going to inject an additional $5 million into the program to boost paramedic response as a response to the crisis that we're dealing with. So what does that mean? Well, immediately we'll be implementing a number of strategies to boost ambulance resources and staffing in the coming weeks. And that includes placing stationary mobile, or sorry, medical support units in some high overdose locations. And at first, that'll be in Vancouver and Surrey. Now these will act as resupply station for paramedics as well as provide care information and triage to those using drugs. We know that our paramedics are highly trained and can provide some very, very good information to people at risk. So that'll start in Vancouver and Surrey and as needed in other areas as we monitor the situation. We'll also be deploying paramedic teams using more nimble modes of transportation such as bicycles and ATVs in high overdose areas in Vancouver and Surrey. You can imagine that getting down alleyways where overdoses might occur is difficult to do. So using more nimble means of transportation is one of those strategies. We'll also be adding resources to the 9-1-1 Dispatch Center to better support paramedics being sent out on calls. And there'll be more supervisory support to paramedics and dispatchers with triaging. More efficient patient handover at hospitals so we can get these men and women back on the road more quickly to respond to those calls. We have put $5 million into the center for our substance use, research and addictions training. We are opening 500 more recovery beds across the province. And I think all of these together will give us an opportunity to deal with this incredibly complex and impactful crisis that's hitting the province of British Columbia.


I fundamentally now believe that if you put together a advertising-based business model with all-knowing technology that can stitch together the most riveting feed of content that will trigger every single base emotion that you have and keep you coming back for more, if you pair those things with the advertising business model, you end up in a bad place because you end up with a service that will keep taking and taking and taking and ultimately manipulating and manipulating and manipulating until we're at war with each other. This is Startup to Storefront. Today's guest is Tim Kendall, former director of monetization at Facebook, former president of Pinterest and the current CEO of Moment, an app designed to help you develop a healthier relationship with your phone and the amount of time you spend on it. And in case you're wondering, he is all too aware of the irony. It's this kind of resume that also made Tim stand out to the producers of a much-talked-about documentary, The Social Dilemma, where he lends his industry insight into how tech companies are manipulating and controlling us through social media platforms. If you've thought as much without having seen the documentary, the problem is probably worse than you'd imagine. So listen in as we cover everything from the downside of trying to optimize your work-life balance, why Tim predicts that the inevitable end of social media will leave us at war with one another and perhaps most importantly, how to gain back control over your phone. Now, back to the episode. All right guys, welcome to the podcast. On today's show, we have Tim Kendall, founder and CEO of Moment. Tell us a little bit about what are you working on? Yeah, one of the ways I like to explain what Moment does is we wanna help people get out of their own way. So I think in my own life, I've seen how I can definitely get in my own way in terms of being on my phone for too long, eating too much sugar, drinking too much coffee. And so we think there's a really interesting opportunity. I mean, we think that in a phrase, people have lost control of their phones and how they use their phones. And so we are building different apps and experiences that we believe will help people take control again of how they use their phones. And what we find is that when people do get control back over their phones, they're happier, they're more grounded, they're more present and their relationships are better. And obviously this is a bit of a can of worms, but we've all seen the movie, the social dilemma is like trending everywhere. And so let's talk a little bit about going back to what made you want to start the company. What was the aha moment for you? Yeah, so I have two girls. I was six-year-old and a four-year-old. And when my six-year-old Taya was born, I started to really notice in a pronounced way that my phone was just drawing all of my attention. And I would find myself, I'd be trying to parent and I would kind of sneak off into the guest room or sneak off into the bathroom or sneak into the pantry and steal some time to kind of get a hit of my phone. And that could have been a frivolous scroll through Instagram, it could be a silly video that someone sent me. But I think what I started to notice was, to my earlier point, I was getting in my own way. What I was getting in the way of was my aspiration of being a really present engaged dad. Look, admittedly, at a few months old, like what's the big deal, you know, probably a fair point. But I thought it, what scared me was that I thought it was a precursor to how I was gonna be later, which was just this absent, absent dad. And so it really was a wake-up call for me. And I started to just look a lot more deeply about why it was that these things sucked so much of our time and attention from us. And I believed that there potentially was an opportunity to really help people get out of their own way in terms of staring at this piece of glass for way longer than they want to every day. And I thought that there might be a business there too. One of the things I always think about is, so before I got into tech, it was like, I'll call myself a decently efficient human. And then I got into tech and all of a sudden, I was wanting to figure out exactly what to put in my body to just get the most out of my day, working seven to 10, making sure I wasn't sluggish during any investor meeting or during, even with your employees, right? Hiring a team and all these things. And it was the first time an Apple Watch came out and I remember meeting Keith Roblois and he had it first.  And I just remember getting one and thinking, this is it. Like I've hit the human efficiency limit, right? Now I don't need to even think. I know that there's a Zoom happening. I know I have a meeting in this conference room. And I kind of wanna break this discussion into how you see this for somebody like yourself, like me, who was super focused on just productivity, to then just your normal person who's just trying to get through their day and probably doing a little bit more with the content as it relates to watching fun videos or just engaging in content, liking a bunch of stuff and then to the creators. But we'll start with the tech piece of it. I think this is something that I had to realize where I was going to bed at 11.08, Tim, to the dot, like 11.08 to the, and my wife made, it wouldn't matter what I was doing, okay? Made conversation. It was 11.08, I'm out. And by the way, I was on my laptop. So as soon as I saw 11.08, I'd close it down. Yeah. And I was like, what's happening? And I didn't think what's happening to me until years later. So was that kind of the genesis a little bit for you too where you were just so hyper focused on maybe efficiency at the beginning as opposed to just consuming content? Yeah, I mean, I think there was, I think there definitely was a, I was telling myself this story that having email and text messaging in my pocket allowed me to keep tabs on, you know, work at Pinterest and be present with my family, right? I thought you could, I believe that could really multitask. Yeah. In that regard, right? I could be super dad and super husband and I can be the president of Pinterest, no problem. Right. And I think that, I think that's a farce. Like I just, I believe that, you know, and I think this is true in the reverse which is that part of my experience in being a dad of young kids and having a relatively intense job as president of Pinterest was, when I was at home, I felt like I needed to be at work. And when I was at work, I actually sometimes very often I actually frequently thought, oh, I should be at home with my kids. I never could find kind of equanimity in being right here and now, right? There was always this obsession with when is this meeting gonna be over with and the next meeting is gonna start? Like it was always this fascination and hook into what was happening next, how much faster could now get over with? Right. And that just felt like a, intuitively, it just started to feel like that was a shitty way to live. That makes sense. I kind of deconstruct this in two ways. So obviously you were at Facebook at one time and I think the whole goal is just stay on the platform, make it simple, like stay on the platform. At Pinterest, I kind of view it a little differently where I think Pinterest was built in the sense of like, like you're picking things out for your wedding or your DIY home project. And so the whole goal there is get inspo and then go do the thing that the inspo was about, right? And I thought that was such an interesting paradigm to me. It was like, oh, this makes a lot of sense. It's like, it doesn't want you actually in the platform. 100%. And so I guess this makes the question even more obvious. Was that how you were thinking about it? I would imagine too. And then I was thinking about Pinterest when I was there and I don't, you know, I have a real bone to pick with social media companies right now. I don't think of Pinterest as a social media company. I would agree with that, yeah. For the reason that you just explained.  Whereas at a place like YouTube, that is expressly the top level goal aggregate hours on the platform of all the users and how do we make that grow as fast as possible? Right. And so then your objectives and what you build and how the product feels to users is very different. And look, the outcomes are different. Sure. I would be, I mean, I haven't done the study on the incidents of depression or anxiety linked to Pinterest. I'm sure it's not zero, but I'm sure it's, you know, is dwarfed by what a Facebook and a YouTube does in terms of impact on state of wellbeing and mental health. The issue I have personally is that I've never looked at social media as something for me. I've always looked at it through the lens of an entrepreneur. And so I had started companies. So Facebook came out, I was in college and I started a company shortly thereafter.  I could run an ad to someone in this zip code under this demographic that happens to wear this certain product, which is exactly who I'm looking for. And I was blown away by this as an entrepreneur. And then I looked at Twitter as, oh my goodness, these people have done an amazing job already bringing a market to me. And all I have to do is be on the platform, use a couple of hashtags and maybe they'll see exactly what I'm trying to sell. And this is always how I viewed it. So I don't know if that's a creator mindset or just an entrepreneur mindset. And then all of a sudden the election's happening between Hillary and Trump. And on my feed for six months is just Hillary stuff, right? And it's maybe of where I went to school and who my friends are. And I'm just like, this is shocking. Like not even on Fox News or on CNN, am I seeing one side? It was really strange to me that I was not seeing anything about Trump. And I think this is where people really believe that the election was gonna be a landslide. Election day happens and Trump wins. And half of my office is crying in San Francisco on Ninth Street. They're like, and I'm like, wow, people are really convinced, they were really convinced that, this is gonna win. And that's when to me, all the red, everything went off. And this isn't really Russian collusion. It's not that. For me, what went off was, we're not seeing the whole picture. And it's because the algorithm is designed in some way that way. I don't know the specifics, but that was for me the moment. And look, I don't need to get political. I really didn't care who won. I never, a president really never did anything for me on either side, or I just never cared that much. But when I saw my employees crying, I was like, this is a big problem. I wonder what's gonna happen.  And in Silicon Valley trying to grapple with this. And it was almost like the way I view it, the social media companies, specifically Facebook was all of a sudden like, we were at recess, we were having a great time. And then Donald decided to grab the ball and throw it on the roof.  But now we didn't like what he did using the rules that were allotted to him. And now it's like, is that really the issue? Is what's the, what are we really upset about? There's a lot there, I realize that. But that's just giving you a window into like how I've interpreted social media. And I think that is because of that, I feel removed from the realities of it. And I'm trying to better understand the realities of it as it relates to your experience. Obviously you guys, I would imagine you're, when you were there anyway, are creating a product really for the consumer to be consumed. And was it always a linear path to doing the advertisements? Was it always like, hey, if we make a platform and we find out the most about people then the advertisers went, was that always linear? Or cause I can't imagine that being a linear thought, but I don't know. And by linear, you just mean that it was sort of naturally where we thought we would all end up. Yeah. Hey, you've got this, you got a website. I mean, basically what we had on our hands and when I joined was a college website for about five million college kids. And by the way, it had engagement that no one had ever really seen. You had five million people on it, six million people on it and half of them were coming back every day. No one, this is pretty smart phone. No one had seen engagement like that before. You didn't have services where people, half the users came back every day. Maybe once a month, half of the users came back. So it was clear that it was really engaging. It was clear that it could be bigger in that this seemed like a service that other people could use. Look, they had done it with Friendster. They had done it with MySpace. What Facebook figured out was the biggest breakthrough of Facebook, in addition to building a terrific product, was that they got lucky by virtue of starting in college and drafting off of the .edu email signup process. Because by virtue of drafting off of the, everybody had to have a .edu email to sign up. Yeah. And so the first 10 million people that signed up for Facebook were who they said they were. Because there was no alternative. You couldn't create a fake account. Because wherever you went to school, had a clearing house for one person, gets one email address, and it's consistent with what their real name is. Right. And Facebook drafted off all of that. So verifiable and authentic identity was inherent in the first 10 million users. And I think that norm just persisted as the service grew. That's more of an aside about why Facebook, in my opinion, won over the other services and became so dominant. And then look, there were very good people there and they executed very well. And they continued to make the product. One word for it is better. Another word for it is addictive. But they just kept adding feature after feature that added utility to people's life for sure. But also, and I don't think this was the express intent of me or the people there, but also these features triggered and played on our base instincts. Right? I mean, status updates and photo tagging and all of that. That plays on vanity and voyeurism and popularity and comparison. Yeah. That was certainly the playbook there. When I showed up in 2006, my mandate was, as the director of monetization was to figure out how we're gonna make a sustainable business here. So we tried a bunch of things and advertising was far and away the most straightforward. And the context there, everyone else who has a web business at the time is making money off of advertising. Google, Yahoo, MySpace, et cetera. So it just was sort of the natural, it seemed like the natural conclusion and we were attracting so much user attention and it seemed like, look, we can turn that user attention into money. And that ended up proving out to be true in space. Yeah. Which I loved as a early entrepreneur. It was like the best place on earth. You're gonna run ads anyway, right? Like you're already doing it, you have the platforms. At what point for you personally did you start to think, oh man, maybe we're building a beast. Maybe we're building something that isn't working. I think for the world, including myself, it might have been the election. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if for you, maybe you said, I'm sure you picked up on it much sooner, but do you have a remembrance or a timeframe and when you thought, not sure about this? I think I started to have doubts around the election. Okay. So I was sort of right there with you. Yeah. I still was pretty vocal that I didn't think the business model was the fundamental problem with how the company was set up and the whole dynamic with users and advertisers and then the company. But I think by virtue of working with the filmmakers for the social dilemma and working on moment, my view shifted. And I fundamentally now believe that if you put together a advertising-based business model with all-knowing technology that can stitch together the most riveting feed of content that will trigger every single base emotion that you have and keep you coming back for more. If you pair those things, right, all-knowing technology that can trigger every emotion knows you better than you know yourself with the advertising business model, you end up in a bad place because you end up with a service that will keep taking and taking and taking and ultimately manipulating and manipulating and manipulating until we're at war with each other. I never thought of the human condition as fixed until you just gave me that example, right? It's not the human that's evolving in this matrix. The human is the fixed variable in this equation. And so everything, which is, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That's kind of depressing in some way, but also, yeah, yeah, I guess that's the realization you may have had at one point. Yeah, and that's what I'm scared about. And this is the, when you watch movies like The Terminator and you see these artificial intelligence robots that basically turn on us, that's always our conception of what Elon Musk warns us about. But it doesn't look like that. It looks like what's happening right now. Yeah, it's happening. It's just under the covers and it's subterranean. And you talked about it when you explained your experience of the election, right? We're not all seeing a complete picture of reality. In fact, I would argue some of us are seeing completely distorted versions of reality. And it's unfortunately these algorithms are becoming incredibly adept at dividing us. Not because Mark and Cheryl are saying, hey, divide the country, make more money. Because that is what it's fundamentally, it's designing itself to do that because that's the best way to drive the most engagement. Yeah, I won't ask you for a fix because I don't know that there is one. It's something that I've seen and I think COVID has also made it more clear. There's so many people, right? Everyone has an opinion on COVID now. Should we weren't, no one's listening to science anymore. Yeah. But I also think we just do such a bad job. I had a meeting yesterday and somebody said, so what do you think of this COVID thing? And I'm like, honestly, here's what I think. I think this is like, it's like 1985 and someone gave us a smartphone. And we, instead of accepting that, we might not know the whole detail of this thing yet. We're like hitting it and it's doing things and then it rings at certain times and we're like, oh, we figured it out. We have to work, like I was wearing a mask. And so therefore, correlation equals cause it. You know, it's like this whole, it's like really best step. And so now we have multiple opinions. The tests weren't accurate. And that's just part of what it is. But at the same time, we were able to map its genome in like a month which we would have never been able to do 50 years ago or 60 years ago. And so people just live in these worlds of like absolutes but some of these problems are inherently not, they're just not, it doesn't work that way. Yeah, I think that's right. I was at a building real estate development and we had the LAPD come and cause we heard there was drug activity inside. And so anyway, sidebar. So I'm talking to the police officer I'm asking him like, what is this like for you? And he, you know, this time given BLM and given the whole media almost is like turning its back on the entire police force, not the bad ones as depicted on the media but just like the entire police force.    And he was telling me like, this is what we deal with every single day now. And it's just like, I don't know what Facebook does. I know obviously it's not just social media here. There's a whole lot to blame but it feels like social media has the ability to just add a tremendous amount of fire so quickly.  I always thought a long time ago that I don't know if I thought like what if Facebook could blockchain news, right? What if we could create truth somehow and Facebook could be the purveyor of that. And obviously that's extremely difficult and I don't even know, I kind of did some research on how do we do this but it seemed incredibly difficult and time consuming. Do you think as a platform they have any, like any of these social media outlets have any, I don't even wanna say like obviously not responsibility but maybe that to scrub for truth? I think they do. Okay, that's good to know. I mean, I think that, I think they don't think they do. They think that they don't wanna be the arbiters of truth. Right. So essentially what they do is they say, we're not gonna be the arbiters of truth but we will take down content that incites violence directly but there's a lot of hateful content on there that stays up and there's a lot of distorted information on there that stays on there. And they have in a couple of cases taken a scalpel and said, well, let's actually take this out. For instance, I think they've done a decent job with COVID because not maybe not an excellent job but a decent job because the consequences were grave if the notion that Lysol was a viable treatment got propagated. So they sort of convinced themselves that it was in the public interest to get rid of that medical misinformation. And so they did it, which is interesting in my mind because it means that they can do it if they want to. For all the other content though that remains, they leave it and say, it's free speech, we don't wanna be the arbiters of truth. The problem with that in my opinion is that then the algorithm becomes the arbiter of truth. Somewhat blindly and it shows you your echo chamber of facts and information and it shows someone else a different set of facts and information based on what will create the most engagement. It's not maximizing or truth, right? It's maximizing for engagement. And if we just showed everybody the same set of facts and optimized for truth, we actually would likely see a big decline in engagement. And I think that's where the rub is and oh, by the way, that's where the misalignment is between, in my opinion, the business model of advertising and having a social media service. I think it leads to ultimately bad outcomes. It does in some way to me though, especially in recent times, it feels like the social media outlets are starting to understand that they, I don't wanna say they have to pick a side, but it's starting to feel like the censorship is becoming a snowball, right? There's the, oh, it inflicts harm. Okay, well, let's talk about all these things that may or may not inflict immediate harm. And now that becomes an opinion and now that snowball can only grow from this moment because it's almost like COVID, like right now restaurants can be open, but a brewery cannot. And it's like, what's the difference? It's really, they're in a, I'm frustrated with the company because I think they've been negligent in terms of not staying ahead of this in these problems. But I also have compassion for the difficulty of the problem that is now sitting squarely on their lap. It's tough. I mean, they will be, if this election goes sideways, it will be, the blame will be placed on them, fair or not. Right. Any predictions for the election coming up here? It's a who knows for me. Yeah. Based on how the last one went. It's a who knows for me too. I have no idea, not my area of expertise in terms of predicting what's gonna happen. The only thing that bums me out about Facebook presently and even Instagram is, we had the district attorney who's running for Los Angeles on the podcast.  And now he's running here in LA and he's viewed as progressive, which is an interesting word. I wouldn't put progressive on him. He just seems like he's a human, but the media labels him as progressive and he's trying to give away or not give away, but do away with a lot of these incarcerations as it relates to marijuana and attacking more of like mental health and trying to help, which all makes very logical sense in my head. Yeah, absolutely. So we do this podcast and I just tried to put ads on it on Instagram to get the word out here in LA and it's blocked. And nothing about it is me endorsing this candidate. It's just getting his talking points out into the public. And it wasn't like I was like, oh, amazing. I agree, so cool. It wasn't that. And it was just like this, the censorship, right? It goes back to the censorship. What? They didn't provide a reason. They basically, well, no, they didn't. And I appealed it a few times and then I just kind of gave up and called it what it was. I was like, oh, I get it, right? I guess I understand it. They asked for a license and then for me to like register as an affiliate, like a political affiliate or something. And that's just not me or the podcast. So it didn't, I was like, I don't need to go through the six week process just to find out, just through this one episode. But that was a bummer, you know?  So those kinds of things bum me out. Let's talk about moment. Let's switch gears to what your, what gets you inspired every day. So I downloaded it. I've been using it for I think two weeks now, basically since the social dilemma oddly enough. Some of the good things that came out of that movie. So I never had notifications on to begin with, which was great. So I was like, oh, that's great. I'm right there. And then I downloaded Moment and I've been using it. I'm sure you get this question all the time. Apple has the product of screen time. To me, that one just seems like it, it doesn't do anything really, right? It just says, hey, here's your activity, which is kind of like the caveman's approach to a problem. It's like, uh, uh, uh, there's a rock and that's it. And then it just lets you handle it. How do you think about what your app is doing and some of the things you're building to help people get off of social, or not maybe not get off, but just become more aware of how they spend their time. Yeah. Well, the, the, when I think about this problem, which is basically just like phone, you know, us losing control over our phone. If you believe you've lost control over your phone, we sort of at moment believe there are three, sort of three sequential steps you can take to get control back. And these steps are really embedded in the product. The first is awareness, which is the measurement piece.   You know, they'll pick it up a hundred times and that fragmenting of your day-to-day life makes people feel bad.  And they're also very surprised by how much time they spend on it. So, you know, the average user spends, the average person in the United States spend four hours a day on their smartphone. If you ask those people how long they think they spend on the phone, it's two hours. Right. So just that awareness step can be really helpful in terms of changing your behavior. The second piece is, you know, just guidelines. Basically, we provide a bunch of guidelines that help people and steps that they can take, removing notifications, setting limits on certain apps that help people really shift and get back control. And then the final thing, which is new in our most recent version of Moment, is we think that real behavior change, and this bears out in a lot of the scientific research, happens when groups of people co-commit and groups of people hold each other accountable. So you can create different groups on Moment of your friends or people that you're, you know, your family, and then the service basically allows you each to see the other screen time and pickups. And that, just that basic leaderboard concept can really help people develop much better sense of how they're doing and a sense of kind of accountability and transparency with the people around them. And so that's, it's really basic at the moment, the app, but it's really based on those principles, awareness guides, and then group, I'll call it group accountability, group transparency. Do you ever think of, so one thing I'm always caught, so I haven't had a television in like six years and now there's one behind me because of COVID, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. So the good news is we were able to watch the social element HD. The bad news is I love not having a television because I read a stat that's like the average American, at least the TV is on for like 13 hours a day, whether they're watching it or not is a different story, but let's pretend they're watching it. Yeah, the TV usage is pretty high still. It's amazing. It's amazing. And so I love not having it because if people came over, friends came over, we would just turn music on and then talk, like we would have a conversation, which is almost like, and they'd come over like, oh, this is so nice. We just talk. And I'm like, what do we, where has the world gone?  Yeah. No, we've certainly thought about that. I mean, we've got to, we're not very big as the company. So, you know, I can see that down the line for sure. The other things that we are working on just in terms of problem spaces, there's one other big one, which I call sort of social health.  Right. But what that does is it actually pulls time away from time that I used to have to maintain and nurture the relationships that really mattered to me. And so our social health is deteriorating as a result of that. And so we fundamentally believe that there are going to be services and we're building and prototyping these services today that are going, that people are going to pay for, that are going to help them in lieu of scrolling through a feed for three hours at night, instead have people spend some of that time focusing on nurturing and developing the relationships that matter the most to them. I'm sure when you talk to some people, obviously you've done a lot of interviews, they think that's crazy, right? They're like, what is he talking about? On the reverse of that, do you feel like you're the first mover to some extent? Like do you feel the complete reverse of that where there's gonna be more, Tim Kendall's is gonna be, like you're just the beginning and there's gonna be four or five moments coming out here in the next two years. I mean, how do you, cause I could see either or, right? Yeah, I mean, I feel, what do I think? There's some days, look, this is like any entrepreneur. There's some days I'm like, I'm the first mover. I see something that other people don't. Yeah, that's terrifying. There are other days where I think I am totally seeing the world wrong and no one is gonna care about this service. No one wants this service. And I'm not selling a Hershey bar. I'm selling a gluten-free, dairy-free granola bar. Right, right. That people wanna eat if they really understand the impact of eating 20 Hershey bars a day. So, you know, I do think that, just to finish on the social health piece, the whole idea is, hey, we're so deliberate about what we eat.  But I leave it to chance. That's crazy. That's crazy, for sure.  Yeah, and people do, to your earlier question, people do hear what I just said and they think I'm crazy. And my follow-up question to them is, well, who are your closest friends? And they think about it and I said, well, when's the last time you talked to them? And that's usually the eye-opener is, oh, yeah. And COVID has changed that a little bit, probably for the better, maybe, in that I actually think that strangely, some people are closer to their closest friends because it's opened up time and space for us to talk more and zoom more and do those sorts of things. But in general, we don't spend that much time nurturing the relationships with the people that are closest to us, apart from maybe our family. That's very true. My brain goes in so many different directions as I'm talking to you because as a creator, social media is our biggest thing, right? And then I think about helping Tim and I go, so Paris Hilton, who's now a speaker and talks about how she was addicted to social media and literally her followers became her friends, became her family. And without that engagement, she felt empty. And then I think about, oh, Tim should hook up and link up with Paris and a bunch of these people who know the end game, right?  And you know, it's like, I don't think that's true either. It's like, there's something here in the middle as a parent, I don't know how old your daughters are, but as a parent, what do you do with phones? Do you say no phone until this age or what? And I'm sure this is a difficult one, but what is that like for you? What decisions have you and your wife made? Yeah, we've been, I mean, when you have a four and a six year old, really you're only just, you're making really decisions about whether you let them watch shows or not. I suppose there's some families that are doing, letting them do interactive things like that, but we're basically at that stage where like, do you let them watch Mr. Roger replays? Did you let them do that?  And when they don't, they're really pleasant, and they're more creative, and they have longer attention spans. Yeah. So that's just been our experience. When they get older, you know, there's a model called wait till eight that basically is a framework that parents at the same, where their kids are in school, can say, hey, first grade parents, do you all wanna sign this pledge that says, we're gonna wait till eighth grade, or when the kid is 13 or 14 to give him a smartphone and let them sign up for social media? Because if we can all band together and agree to that, we're probably gonna be making a pretty amazing choice on their behalf. And so I would like to try to do that with each of my daughter's classes. And then I think the final thing that I think parents get wrong on this issue is that whenever they complain to me about how much their kids use their phones, they don't wanna talk about how much they use their phones. They don't wanna look at their own usage. And modeling is everything in my view. I have this funny stat that if you ask parents, 80% of parents think wearing a helmet when you ride a bike is critical, but only 25% actually do it themselves. And so only 40% of kids wear helmets on bikes. Conversely, you look at seatbelts, almost 100% of people think seatbelts are important, adults wear them and kids wear them. We're sort of all in alignment on that. I think with smartphone usage, if your family wants to change, it's got, you gotta change as a unit. And I've talked to doctors who treat families where the kids are diabetic. And the only way that you can sustainably really get your kid in that circumstance to stop eating, to change their lifestyle in terms of how they eat is the whole family has to change. It just does not work when they don't. And so I think parents who are really serious about this have to have a reckoning with their own usage. And a lot don't wanna do that, which to me underscores how serious the problem is. There's like, addiction. Guess what's one of the fundamental issues is an addiction, denial. Lack of awareness. Right, just to kinda, let's cherry on top this. What are some of the myths people definitely get wrong and the data just shows completely the other way? Like what are, we've sort of peppered around this, but if you could just succinctly tell us one to three things that people for sure haven't 100% wrong. Well, I mentioned this earlier, but I'll mention it again. People are off by a factor of two in terms of how much time they spend. And I always think it's interesting to frame it in terms of percentage of time in your life, meaning you're awake 16 hours a day. If you're spending four hours on the phone, you're spending a quarter of your life looking at your smartphone. Oh, this one's an interesting one, which is that we've got in our terms of our guides in the Moment app, we can see how effective they are by age and other demographics. And it turns out that 20 and 30-somethings are much more coachable than 40, 50-year-olds. Interesting. They're just in, and you would think, right, that maybe the wisdom and maturity that comes with age would make you sort of more willing to shift and change. But what we learn is that 20 and 30-somethings, that youth comes with a malleability around habits. It's cool to see it, actually. That is really cool. That's like helpful data, right? That's the future. These are the future voters of the future leaders of the world. Yeah, absolutely. Any advice for creators that really leverage these social media outlets to get their message out, whether it's art, whether it's podcasts, whatever it is. And this is the little selfish question for me, too, I mean, this is, I'd say one of the lenses that I do think is interesting is that the zeitgeist around this is starting to come into clear focus. The zeitgeist around this notion that we're addicted to these things. And I've started to see companies, and I think this applies to creators, too, drafting off of that. So Carnival Cruise Lines ran an ad campaign for months that basically marketed the cruise as a time to basically unplug, to take a break from your phone with your family. So, as things like the social dilemma and others make this part of the zeitgeist, if creators and their products are aligned with that, I think it's a societal shift that they can draft off of. That makes a lot of sense. I think that Gary Vee's always talking about TikTok, pay attention to TikTok. By the way, that seems like really sound advice. That platform is scary in that it is riveting. Yes. And so if I were a creator, I would be really going deep on trying to understand the dynamics because it's just like Instagram was so different from Facebook and Snap is really different from Instagram. TikTok is its own thing. Yeah, that's fair. I love what you said though. I mean, something that we can close on this too, it's really just take responsibility for yourself, right? It starts with you. And that sounds so obvious. And I think people get that as it relates to their diet, just like you said, an exercise. Yeah, and this in climate change, I think that was, you know, when Inconvenient Truth came out, that out-or-movie, I think one of the great, one of the wonderful things about that movie in my recollection at least was that I do think there was this awareness about leaving lights on and leaving my air conditioner on all day and do I need three SUVs and maybe I should be just a little bit more mindful about recycling versus regular trash. And that's a, look, I think that shifted hearts. I think the personal responsibility and part of that helped shift hearts and minds. And I have a similar hope with our phones and our relationship with them. Well, I certainly think you're right. I mean, I'll say that much. I think you're, the way I view you, and this is probably just as a hope for humanity too, is you're right. I think you're a first mover. I'm hoping a lot of people follow. I'm hoping the social dilemma might have a chapter two, three and four that we can focus in on. Maybe the story gets better. Yeah. Maybe the human race is just declining. But at least we know, right? And I think the, to your point, awareness is the first step. Yeah. Tim, where can people find you? Tell us all the social media channels that they can jump on to find you. Well, the best place to find us is in themoment.io or moment.io. And in the app store. Yeah, and that's, and in the app store, we're there as well, just under moment. If you go to in themoment.io, you'll see some of the other projects that we're working on, including some of that social health stuff that I referred to. I think you got to double down on that. Social health, social obesity. I think we got to start making a lot of terms. Get Paris Hilton on board. I think, I mean, I would. What choice do we have? Right? If you're already in the deep end, you might as well just, you're just, I'm with you. Well, thanks for coming on the podcast. I'd like to give you a photo of confidence. Yeah, thank you very much. I appreciate it. This was fun.