Hi, everyone, Sean with jaspyscasebreaks.com here doing 2020-2021 Panini Prism Premier League, EPL soccer, two box break, Random club number 10, where? All-card chip. Here is the list of clubs from Arsenal down to Wolverhamton, two combo spots, Sheffield United and West Brom and Crystal Palace and Leeds are the combo spots. And Here is our list of customers from Jason Siebert down to David Lee with Last Spot Mojo. Here's that list of custom the clubs again from Arsenal back down to Wolverhamton and dice roll to randomize both lists and pair them up six and a four ten times. Tenth and final time from Robert Runkle down to Jason Lieberman and ten times on the clubs. Tenth and final time. Brighton and Hove down to Tottenham Hotspurs. So you can see ten times on the list of clubs, ten times on the list of names and ten times on the dice. So Robert Runkle with Brighton and Hove, Martin Klaus with Southampton, Jason Lieberman with Manchester United, David Lee, Last Spot Mojo with West Ham, Jason Lieberman with Arsenal, Jonathan McClay with the Sheffield United and West Brom, Chris Cataloni with Manchester City, Robert Runkle with Leicester City, Jason Lieberman with Aston Villa, Robert Runkle with Newcastle United, Jason Lieberman, Liverpool FC, Martin Klaus with Burnley, Jason Lieberman with Crystal Palace and Leeds, Fulham and Wolverhamton, Jason Siebert with Everton and Chelsea and Jason Lieberman with Tottenham Hotspurs. Quick trade window for you guys, give it about 45 seconds. So if anybody would like to trade, take your shots now. Another 10 seconds or so guys. No toxic trades? Sure. Anything that's on the site. Anything that doesn't say sold out is still available to break tonight. So if you talk to the people in the chat, you can see what they want to do or what they're in that still have spots available and see what you guys can all work on together to close out. So trade window closed, no trades. There you go. Ben says Don Russ baseball. Seven left. I think Jarrell earlier was trying to do encased. So same thing. I say take a look and see what you like, what you'd be interested in doing and see what everybody else in the site wants to or what everybody else in the chat wants to do as well. There you go. There's Jonathan. So Jonathan wants to do that. I know Jarrell was going for was pushing for encased basketball. So there's plenty of people here still wanting to do other stuff. So Beaumar, how are you man? I'm great. It's Friday. It's my actual Friday. I'm off tomorrow. So I get to like sleep throughout the day. Hang out with dogs, run some errands. We ain't got the haircut today. Beard trim, shape up everything. Prepping for a wedding next week. Went and saw a buddy of mine who does cards and stuff like that. Talked to him about moving some stuff. So that was cool. Ross Barkley for Aston Villa, Jason Lieberman, Mason Greenwood, Manchester United, David Lee, Edna Stevens, Sheffield United to 195, Jonathan McClay, Kyungmin Saan for Tottenham Hotspurs, Jason Lieberman, Vatina for Wolvington, Jason Lieberman, Casper Schmeichel, Blue to 195 for Leicester City, Robert Runkel, stuff so nice. Give me some prison EPL in my life all day long.  Soccer cards being so nice and like the look of them and stuff like that has made me super interested in soccer recently. James McCarthy for Crystal Palace, Jason Lieberman, Marcus Rashford, Manchester United, Jason Lieberman, Rodrigo Purple to 99 for Manchester City, Chris Cataloni, Jamal Laskeles for Newcastle United, Robert Runkel, Reese Nelson, Blue to 195 for Arsenal, Jason Lieberman, Bukayo Saca, Arsenal, Jason Lieberman, and it looks like we did get an auto in this box and it's for Everton, it's Ramiro Fuenes Mori, going to Everton and Jason Siebert, Billy Gilmore, Rookie Silver for Chelsea, nice one for Jason Siebert there, Issa Diop for West Ham, David Lee, Pierre-Emerick Abbebiong to 49 for Arsenal, Jason Lieberman, Virgil van Dijk for Liverpool, Jason Lieberman, nice first box, good auto, nice Gilmore Silver, I'll take it or you guys will. Rinse and repeat, same thing, box two or good stuff again. Nabi Keda for Liverpool, Jason Lieberman, Ross Barkley Purple to 99 for Austin Villa, Jason Lieberman, Raheem Sterling for Manchester City, Chris Cataloni, Martin Dubrovka for Newcastle United, Robert Runkel, Marcus Rashford again, Manchester United, Jason Lieberman, Davenson Sanchez, Tottenham, Jason Lieberman, Riyad Marez, Blue for Manchester City to 195, Chris Cataloni, Rodrigo Moreno for Leeds, and Jason Lieberman with the combo spot, Jack Stephens, Southampton, Lewis Dunick to 195 for Brighton and Hove, Robert Runkel, Guilfee Sigurdsson for Everton, Jason Siebert, Georgino Wijnaldum for Liverpool, Jason Lieberman to 49, Tyrik Mitchell for Crystal Palace, Jason Lieberman, Ollie Watkins, Aston Villa, Jason Lieberman, and there you go, another nice box, and there you go, that was 2020-2021 Panini Prism, Premier League, EPL Soccer, 2 box break, 0-8 break, Random Club Edition number 10 from jaspyscasebreaks.com. I'm Sean, jaspyscasebreaks.com. Thanks for hanging out, we'll see you next time.


So I'll look at Pearson, think maybe I don't know. City Council meeting, the Durham City Council to order on at 7 o'clock on Monday night, April the 5th, and I certainly want to welcome everyone here tonight. My dear council colleagues, our wonderful staff and all those people who are with us and online and so glad to have you. Friends as we meet tonight, I'm going to ask you to join me in a moment of silence. Thank you. Councilmember Reese, will you please lead us in the Pledge to the Flag? I will. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and colleagues. Good evening to all the city staff and Durham residents watching at home. I will now say the Pledge of Allegiance. A Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you very much, Councilmember. All right, Madam Clerk, will you please call the roll? Mayor Schuyl, here. Mayor Pro Tem Johnson, here. Councilmember Caballero, here. Councilmember Freelon, here. Councilmember Freeman, present. Councilmember Middleton, I'm here. Councilmember Reese, here. Thank you. Thank you very much, Madam Clerk. We have really great ceremonial items tonight and I'm going to first call on Councilmember Middleton who will be doing the honors for National Public Safety Telecommunicator Week Proclamation and I believe that Randy Beaman is here. Madam Clerk, if you could make Mr. Beaman available to be seen at her, that would be great and I'll turn the floor over to Councilmember Middleton. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and good evening friends and all that are watching at home. Is Randy available? I don't see him. Is he? There he is. Good evening, Randy. Good evening. Absolutely. Mr. Mayor, thank you so much for this great honor and privilege. I'm particularly grateful to be reading this proclamation. When I was elected I attempted to visit with every city department that we have and we have some incredibly impressive people working for us. I have to honestly say though, I don't think I was more impressed and moved by any other department than sitting with our emergency call takers. When people think of first responders, they tend to think of the flashy cars which are the lights and sirens, police, fire, EMS, but our real first responders are the folks who answer the phone. And the folks that are on the way to the emergencies have an idea of what they're heading to, but when those calls come in you never know what's going to be on the other end of that phone. And I sat through some actually heart wrenching and harrowing situations when I've listened to our call takers in the 911 call center. I look forward after we get through this period, Randy, of getting back and visiting with that incredible team you have. So I just want to thank you for the incredible work you do and I'm honored to read this proclamation to mark this important week. Proclamation for National Public Safety Telecommunicator Week. Whereas emergencies can occur at any time that require police, fire, or emergency medical services. And whereas when an emergency occurs, the prompt response of police officers, paramedics, and firefighters is critical to the protection of life and preservation of property. And whereas the safety of our police officers, paramedics, and firefighters is dependent upon the quality and accuracy of information obtained from residents and visitors who telephone the Durham Emergency Communication Center. And whereas public safety communications officers and call takers are the first and most critical contact our residents and visitors have with emergency services. And whereas public safety communications officers and call takers are the single vital link for our police officers, firefighters, and paramedics by monitoring their activities by radio, providing them information and ensuring their safety. And whereas public safety communications officers and call takers of the Durham Emergency Communication Center have contributed substantially to the apprehension of criminals, suppression of fires, and treatment of patients. And whereas each dispatcher has exhibited compassion, understanding, and professionalism during the performance of their job in the past year. Now, therefore, I, Stephen M. Shule, Mayor of the City of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim the week of April 11th through the 17th, 2021 as National Public Safety 911 Communications Officer Week in Durham. And hereby urge all citizens to take special note of this observance in honor of the men and women whose diligence and professionalism keep our city safe. Witness my hand in the corporate seal of the City of Durham, North Carolina, this the fifth day of April, 2021. Stephen M. Shule, Mayor, congratulations and thank you for the work you're doing in the entire department. Thank you, Councilman Middleton. Thank you. And if I may take a moment and have a comment. So thank you, Mr. Mayor, Madam Pro-TM, Council members, Madam Manager, City Executive staff. It is indeed a great opportunity and pleasure to recognize our workforce here in Durham Merch Communications Center and Councilman Middleton. I remember very well when you participated with us and that was a grand occasion for us. But I wanted to take a moment and put in perspective sometimes we don't realize behind the scenes the amount of calls and what goes on. So I want to take a perspective from the national to state and to local home right here in Durham. Nationally imagine for over 50 years now our public have been relying upon NOMON-1 as the vital link to public service and emergency services for the fire, EMS, and police. So 240 million calls annually NOMON-1 calls in our nation. North Carolina last year had 7.1 million NOMON-1 calls and right here in Durham 278,243 NOMON-1 calls alone and a total call volume for last year of over a half a million 507,856 calls. That's our staff, men and women behind the scenes every day, day in and day out, working. It is such a privilege and an honor to work with these professionals and also to honor them during this opportunity in April. April is a great time where we celebrate our communicators. So it is with great respect and appreciation from you and all and all the residents of Durham for recognizing the team and truly as you said councilmember Middleton, they are the first responders. Thank you very much with great gratitude and appreciation. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Beaman. Thank you councilmember Middleton. We have another great proclamation tonight and this proclamation, Mayor Pro Tem Johnson is going to do the honors and this is the proclamation for national community development week and Mr. Reginald Johnson is here and I see him on screen. Madam Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you Mr. Mayor and thank you Reginald for joining us tonight. I'm honored to present this proclamation for community development week. National community development week is designed to focus on local as well as national, focus local as well as national attention on the CDBG and home programs which are which provide $1,200 and I'm sorry $1,200 grants to state and local governments to improve neighborhoods and communities for low and moderate income people. That's the CDBG program and the home program provides an additional 600 grants to participating jurisdictions to provide decent safe and affordable housing for low-income households and these programs have been instrumental in Durham's affordable housing work that they have allowed the city to successfully redevelop the south side community filled with deaths in apartments which are primarily for homeless veterans, the widow departments for low income seniors and also improved pedestrian signaling along a number of streets in the city. So we are very appreciative of this federal money that allows us to do so much for our community and I'll go ahead and read our proclamation. Whereas the week of April 5th through April 9th 2021 was designated as national community development week by the national community development association to celebrate the community development block grant CDBG program and the home partnerships home program and whereas since 1975 the CDBG program has provided annual funding and flexibility for local communities to provide decent safe and affordable housing suitable living environment and economic opportunities for low and moderate income people and whereas since 1992 the home program has provided funding for local communities to create decent safe and affordable housing opportunities for low-income persons with over one million units of affordable housing has been successfully national use of home funds and whereas over the past five years the city of Durham has received a total of 9,653,930 funds and 5,030,898 dollars of home funds and whereas the city of Durham has used CDBG and home funds directly or in partnerships to address issues surrounding homelessness including better homelessness to promote home ownership opportunities for low and moderate-income households to develop hundreds of affordable rightful units for low and very low-income households to provide repairs to homes of very low-income seniors to help revitalize neighborhoods and to leverage millions of dollars in additional public and private investments within Durham neighborhoods now therefore I may Steven and Shul mayor of the city of Durham with their alignment the earbuds were claimed they grew fit through April 9th 2021 as national community development week in Durham and supported these two value programs that have made a tremendous contribution to the vitality of the city's housing staff infrastructure public services and the economic vitality of our community with its nine-hand equivalence to the city of Durham, Carolina, the fifth day of April 2021. Thank you everyone and Mr. Nassar if you'd like to stay if you want to please feel free. Thank you. Thank you Madam Mayor Pro Tem, Mr. Mayor, members of council, we definitely thank you for reading the proclamation for community development week. I accept this proclamation on behalf of the members of the staff of the community development department but more importantly I also accept it on behalf of the citizens advisory committee whom you and the county commission appoint to advise us on these types of programs. We have our chair LeVon Barnes, our vice chair Brian Langlos, Janice Washington serves as the secretary and the very able council member Pierce Freelon serves as our liaison and we also thank all of the other members of the citizens advisory committee as the Mayor Pro Tem outlined this program with funding has provided a valuable help to our community. Our goal is to make sure and ensure that it continues to do so and we thank you for the recognition that you have provided for community development week for the home program and the community development block grant program. Thank you all so much. Thank you very much Mr. Johnson. Thank you Madam Mayor Pro Tem and those were some great ceremonial items tonight. All right we're now going to move on to announcements by members of the council. Announcements colleagues, council member Reese. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Good evening colleagues. It's great to see you all again. I had two announcements tonight. The first is a little bit fun and the second is a little more serious. First I want to congratulate Durham resident Hubert Davis being hired today as coach of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and then it's basketball program. He lives directly adjacent to the city limits in the county but he is still a Durham resident. We will claim him. I will claim him. It is a personal story in addition to being my wife's college classmate and sitting about 10 seats away from him when he when he graduated she did so she has always been very partial to coach Davis. For a time we sent our children to the same school that Coach Davis and his wife do and I will tell you that occasionally in the drop-off line in the morning I got to exchange a few words with Coach Davis about how the team was doing. I tried to import some wisdom around the college basketball front. Luckily he never listened to me because the team has done really really well and so I missed those opportunities to to really kind of float about two inches off the ground because that's that's how excited I was to see him every day. In any event Coach Davis we wish you the best of luck coaching the very best college basketball team in the country and certainly in North Carolina. So that's number one. So secondly we could go today I had the opportunity to visit a brand new community that was recently completed here in Durham called the Willow Tree Apartments. This is an 82 apartment building directly adjacent to Durham Station and very close to Durham's Amtrak Station. This is a community of 82 apartments that are affordable to low-income families. That is all the units are affordable. The family is making less than 60 percent of area median income and a quarter of the units are reserved for those folks making less than 30 percent of area median income and all 82 units are eligible for housing choice voucher holders. So many residents who use those vouchers won't pay anything out of pocket. The the apartments themselves are extraordinary. I defy anyone who visited them and I think most of us had a chance to do that last week to go across the street to the market rate apartments they just finished building and tell me the difference. And I was lucky enough to see a couple of the families moving in yesterday. Yes I did drive by to see if I could see some families moving in and they were I didn't impose myself on them but I did want to mark the occasion some way because this is very personally meaningful to me and I know for none of my colleagues this is an outstanding opportunity for the city of Durham to show people both here in Durham across North Carolina across the country what affordable housing can actually look like. You know when we were when this council before I was even a member of this council when this council was talking about the possibility of building affordable housing on this piece of property there were folks in this city who were concerned about doing that because they were afraid it would somehow concentrate poverty in a way that wouldn't look good. I think anyone who takes a look at these apartments will see that they are incredible the natural light is extraordinary they have some of the best views of the city of Durham I've ever seen and they are they are a truly great expression of what is possible when people of good will work together to find a way to make our city affordable for working families. I was especially excited to see that the developers of this project are two great non-profit developers partners DHIC and Durham's own self-help commissioned an artist to do a mural on the outside of the building and the artists who were unsuccessfully getting hired who applied but didn't get hired they asked them to produce art for the common hallways throughout the property and one of the first sets of paintings I saw was by a local artist in Darius Quarles full disclosure I own at Darius Quarles it's in my city hall office and you can come by and see anytime you want it's small but that's okay and there are a pair of pictures there one portraits by him one of Ann Atwater and one of Phil Freelon and it was just such a great opportunity to see some of our Durham's best portrayed and focused and prominently displayed in this in this particular location I did want to say a few thanks about this because it truly takes a village to build this kind of project first and foremost I reviewed the record the legislative record and let it let me be clear that in an August work session in the hot summer of 2015 then council member Stephen Shull brought to the council the possibility of partnering with self-help to build 82 units of affordable housing next to the bus station the issue was quickly taken up during the ongoing city council elections at that time my friend Jillian Johnson I know was a big proponent of that project in parallel to the work of the electoral side the organizing and community organizing side one of our great community organizations Durham can was a huge supporter of this idea much of their organizing was led by my friend now colleague council member Mark Anthony Middleton all of which is to say that it didn't take it took more than one person with a good idea it took organizing a community in support of the idea that downtown should be for everyone and not just the wealthy it took electoral success it took votes and it took the willingness to spend money and to donate land to do it that is a recipe for success for this project and for other projects as well that I look forward to seeing come down the pike and we're getting a great update from our community development department this week about all the amazing work that's happening last thing I wanted to say about this and then I'll be done Mr. Mayor our former colleague in the previous mayor pro tem coracle McFadden used to like to tell me that building buildings is great but that's not why we do it we do it because the building serve a purpose for our community and they improve the lives of real people and when I think about the Willard Street apartments I think about a line from the Hamilton musical what is a legacy a legacy is planting seeds in a garden you never get to see you know families are moving into Willard Street apartments right now that we will never meet never know we won't know their stories but they will by virtue of the fact that these apartments are affordable to working families have the kind of stability that many of us listening to this right now take for granted the housing stability that that we all take for granted what will these families do with that stability that's what I think about when I think about this project and the hundreds of other projects that we can get done together in the years to come that's what we talk about that's what we're talking about when we say affordable housing and that's why I'm really excited for all the families that I saw moving in this weekend at Willard Street apartments we're going to do a great public ribbon cutting probably in August and invite our friends at the press to come and show Durham and North Carolina in the world what you can accomplish when a community comes together that's all I had to say tonight Mr. Mayor thank you thank you very much councilmember councilmember Freelon yes brother Reese that was you said everything um very eloquently I just have some very small things to add first of all Charlie texted me and was like oh make sure you book your tour he didn't tell me about the mural and when I came off the elevator and saw this you know huge mural mural of my father I just broke into tears it was so beautiful and moving and it made me think about something that my dad said it was really important to him that everyone be able to experience beauty in their environment and that's definitely what I felt when I was touring the building and you talked about Charlie about the views you know when you go to those corner apartments on the top floor and look down you know on one side of the building it's the mutual life building and that wonderful legacy of Black Wall Street you know is there kind of showing that important legacy and on the other side is the bus station which my dad frequently talked about being one of his favorite designs for the for the very same reasons that Charlie described it's important when I got to the Willard Street appointment I accidentally went into the market rate building not realizing the difference that's how similar they are and and when I was overlooking the bus station from a bird's eye view that was the first time I'd seen the bus station with all the kind of angular you know architectural dimensions that it has from that particular viewpoint and it was breathtaking to look at and so I just wanted to echo everything Charlie said and I told the folks that gave us the wonderful tour that my dad would have been really proud to have his portrait in that building next to Ann Outwater and I was just so thrilled to be in service when this opened up so just yeah I wanted to really echo everything you said Councilmember Reese thank you for encouraging me to go on the tour and not not blowing the surprise because it really caught me off-guard thank you Mr. Mayor thank you Councilmember and that is a fantastic family legacy colleagues other announcements Councilmember Middleton thank you Mr. Marin again good evening colleagues and everyone watching let me express my hopes that all of our observant Jewish brothers and sisters had a good Passover celebration until our all of our observant Christian brothers and sisters have you had a wonderful Easter weekend as well and good evening good to see you all Mr. Mayor just a just a couple of things maybe two or three three things very quickly firstly I want to publicly acknowledge the great work of our city manager and her staff some watchers and and regular viewers about eight of them of city council meetings will recall me from time to time putting a query about some money that we had set aside for our built-to-last initiative for our shared economic prosperity plan and the development of a not-for-profit I want to thank our city manager Wanda Page for doing such an excellent job in addressing those questions that I had about the use of that money and I look forward to a robust presentation about our shared economic prosperity plan I will not go into the specifics but suffice it to say it was a detailed thorough comprehensive explanation of a query that I put on public records so I want to say publicly on record that those those queries were addressed and I look forward to having a fuller readout of what our plans are moving forward in light of my query and a lot of my not just mine but but our interest in our shared economic prosperity initiative specifically built to last I think it's going to be critical and Mr. Marion you entombed this wonderfully in in state of the city addresses that you've done in the past when you pointed out how well Durham is doing but also acknowledging that not all are participating in that wealth and prosperity of Durham and I think our shared economic prosperity plan is going to be an important part of our roadmap to making sure folk to the best of our ability make sure that folk participate in their prosperity so my thanks to City Manager and her staff. Secondly I want to say Mr. Mayor that it is no secret that we have had a very violent weekend in our city this past weekend and that shootings in our city have been an alarming rate actually relative to where we were last year this time we are we are on pace to either tie or or I'll do what we did last year what happened last year in terms of shootings which is particularly disturbing because last year we were on lockdown we were in the throes of lockdown we were had stay-at-home orders as the weather improves and as folk are becoming more emboldened because of vaccinations and as restrictions are being lifted I think that that creates an atmosphere where we know that we've got to be vigilant about shooting in our city so I'm I'm not debilitated with my concern but I am concerned about the summer that's approaching in our city and what we are seeing now I want to acknowledge victims and and folk who are concerned about the level of gunfire in our city particularly in our neighborhoods many of us will know that a 13 year old girl lying in her bed was shot because of gunfire outside her home she there's no evidence yet that she was directly involved this particularly struck home because the house directly next door to the house that was struck by gunfire is occupied by two parishioners of my church they were startled out of their sleep by gunfire and they immediately took up defensive positions they scurried around they hit the floor while gunfire rang out outside their home one of them were one of the several calls that were placed to 911 in this particular case for responders to come and respond to the shooting so I want to send our prayers out to for a quick and speedy recovery to that 13 year old to the victims from this past weekend I think it's important to keep realizing that with all that's going on in our Durham and in Durham and there are wonderful things downtown and Google coming that we still have a gunfire problem in America no doubt America is Washington guns but we have I'm a Durham elected official our specific iteration of the problem here in Durham I think should be should remind us and call our full attention and focus as a government I want to you know send a challenge out to all that are listening whatever your station is in our community whether you're a political person or community person my my brothers and sisters in the clergy um that this is time for all hands on deck um I also want to challenge those that enter into this space enter into this debate space who who want to make prescriptions or recommendations is what we should be doing at the policy level I think it's important for every player in this city every organization to issue a statement of recognizing and showing solidarity with the thousands of people in our city that hear gunfire every night that's not reported um and I think it's important that we have a comprehensive conversation but there are little boys and girls who have integrated that into their world view that this is just what it's like in our neighborhood um if you're serious about this conversation about reform be it police reform or criminal justice reform come on into the conversation but silence about what we should be doing or recommendations about what we should be doing in the immediate tactical short term sense about women women and men and boys and girls in this city that experience gunfire every night um what's our plan on that and what are we going to do on that with all the other things we're fixing and tweaking and all the changes when we want to make the systems and structures and departments what is our statement about the immediate short term right now concerned about little boys and girls being trained to jump in bathtubs and jump off their bikes and duck and cover like soldiers behind garbage cans when gunfire goes off we can't talk about the other stuff and not talk about that as well we can't come up with prescriptions and ideas about retooling and reforming other things without talking about that as well all of it needs to be talked about i'm with you but we've got to talk about that as well and i think some more voices while we're issuing statements on other things need to be issuing statements about what we're going to do tonight about the boys and girls who will be ducking and covering not just the parishioners of my church but but people like them all around the city who will be ducking and covering the gunfire our prayers go out once again to those that have been affected and and i just challenge us to bring the full weight the ingenuity the creativity the resources of our government to bear on this issue uh while we celebrate downtown there are many outside of the downtown corridor that will be going to sleep tonight in a virtual war zone so thank you for that and finally charlie reese as usual nailed everything i wanted to say about willard street apartments they're absolutely beautiful i have nothing to add to what he would say except that i want to thank you mr mayor because i remember when the prospect of using city land to do affordable housing was put the council members into you uh you didn't balk you didn't flinch you didn't go down the litany of of usual excuses about you know well you can get more money for we had a robust conversation i remember your willingness to shepherd that and to carry that forward on the electoral side so i want to thank you publicly for your willingness charlie's right there are so many people who had their hands in this and so many voices and so many players uh but in Durham fashion we we shifted a paradigm um and as i walked through that building i was just um just overtaken um i was just overcome with the beauty of it uh charlie mentioned the light the vistas of our city i too could not distinguish and i deliberately looked across the street to the market rate apartments and then at that building couldn't make a distinction and and i want to challenge uh you know our community development department and all our partners and anytime anybody talks about building affordable housing anywhere in the city that we require them i don't know if we can do this statutorily we require them to go take a view uh take a tour of willard street apartments because they are absolutely beautiful and i want to thank our partners the self-help and and the hic for the wonderful work they've done and for this council for for the willingness to see it through it was not easy it was expensive um there are other things we could have done with the land but but when your values guide your votes and guide your policy this is what it looks like uh when when values rule the day and electoral politics so congratulations Durham um i too am excited about the families that are moving in i know some of them personally and i could not be more happy for them i'm a bit jealous because they got this cool downtown address now and i'm still schlepping it in from the suburbs but i could not be more happy uh for the residents of willard street apartments god bless our city god bless and protect our city thank you very much mr mayor thank you all thank you councilmember are there announcements colleagues councilmember freyman thank you mr mayor it's always a pleasure to follow the gentleman on our council and um here all their their announcements uh beforehand it's help it's help i had to make a few notes and just just um i i really wanted to to shift the dialogue but i'll start with the willard street apartments i just wanted to make sure that we tackle that i didn't leave it hanging that um folks actually with the subsidy for housing choice vouchers actually do pay rent and so it's dependent on their income and just noting that i didn't want to leave us leave this conversation without noting that but they may have to pay out of pocket um and i do want to note that uh in my tour i was really trying to get to what the maintenance plan will look like because i live across the street from calvary apartments and franklin street and east main street which are all apartment complexes that were built as affordable housing and currently have maintenance issues that will need to be addressed um as they figure out whether or not they're going back to derm house and authority or not and so just acknowledging that this conversation is not ending it's that we're at the beginning even though the the the first phase of the housing has been built the second phase will need to be done and then there also needs to be a plan around maintenance and just acknowledging that the rents may not cover that and uh in that this setup um other than that i really appreciated the opportunity to be there and to see the that the work of what we all have been pushing for in our community um i know myself as a resident and others as well um prior to this this this coming together um all we're we're excited about it and i i just want to echo a few times how the mayor has encouraged us to figure out what it's going to look like because these were these were very expensive apartments to to actually build and so what it's going to look like sustainably will be important over the next um few years i i did want to circle back to the covid conversation acknowledging that folks are still passing i think there's been um so you know that tenseness of trying to get out has created um a space where people are trying to figure out what's next and how they can move forward and i want to encourage folks to continue to wear their masks socially distance and to wash their hands as frequently as possible because covid is still with us and people are still losing their family members and it's important to keep that at the forefront i did want to note that uh communities in partnership along with uh peach uh partnership effort for the advancement of children's health held a vaccine event at the impact team building and vaccinated over 270 residents here in derm that were over 75 black and latin x i will also note that uh war for life has actually implemented a putting a local bus school uh a local public transportation bus to work as a mobile vaccine unit they're working to figure out how to align the vaccines in a mobile way for folks not just here in derm but across the state and so they are actually looking to do um covid uh related education and vaccines and testing all in in a mobile um bus vehicle and i thought that that was a phenomenal idea that jason williams with war for life pulled together with his team of uh folks like donald hues and jessica hope and a few others um just to make sure that they were covering some of the issues that kept coming up in our conversations at the covid task force meetings for the african-american community and i would like to note that they did they were trying to make sure that they were readily available for both english and spanish speakers i also want to note that the derm together for resilient youth has been actively working with community health workers to try and make sure that people around the community continuing to have the conversations where they are as trusted resources um and i i just don't want us to turn our eyes away from covid and and and to drop you know the ball i appreciate councilmember cabrera keeping that sign up in the background so that so that folks know it that it's our focus i i i really really am excited about this google conversation and the jobs that they will bring it was even more exciting to hear one of their representatives talking about how they would love to have the north carolina central derm tech and duke all involved in making sure that they're developing programming or certificates or you know coursework that would align what i was concerned about is how dps was not included in that conversation i would like to figure out how we can support as a city through our workforce development department acknowledging that we're you know talking about summer youth programs this would be a great opportunity to get some of those youth lined up for some of that i am i mean i'm more than excited i i think there's there's opportunity where all these challenges lies i had the unfortunate opportunity to spend the early part of the afternoon with the family who uh had experienced that loss in and um emory woods estates and just acknowledging that this this is the neighborhood who who express very um kind of off-puttingly how they were concerned about the new townhomes coming into their neighborhood and not having more crime in their community and trying to like trying to trying to actually navigate you know what it means for there to actually be a shooting in a neighborhood where they haven't had one in over 20 or 30 years and i am i am more than um it's been an emotional afternoon and i just want to note that to council member middleton's point it is going to really be important to figure out what we are going to do next because it is not something um that both city united it's going to be able to do without us and it's not something that the police department's going to be able to do without us it's got to be something that we're all working together on inside i know we're talking about the you know the united the universal basic income i talked about how that pilot would be phenomenal it would be great to have but it would not be enough and we need to find a way to make that sustainable and so i i think that these the ideas are here and the the effort is here but we've got to figure out ways to make that make it work and so i am just mindful just coming back with with all of those thoughts so thank you for allowing me to share them council member our colleagues further announcements all right i have a couple of announcements one is our usually we have a proclamation for the mayor's challenge for water conservation but instead of a proclamation this evening the water management department asked me to just say a few words about the mayor's challenge as my colleagues know the mayor's challenge for water conservation is sponsored by the wildland foundation usually when we make this proclamation wane drop is with us but unfortunately we won't be able to see wane drop tonight but hopefully next year this is the 10th annual challenge and the challenge is a friendly competition between cities across the country and so what we're doing is just encouraging residents to make a series of simple online commitments to reduce water waste pollution and explore ways to improve the health of the Durham community taking the mayor's water challenge is free only takes about two minutes and participants can win eco-friendly prizes the challenge is available for the full month of april and i urge everyone in Durham to take the pledge at mywaterpledge.com let me just say that uh usually Durham is among the cities that does the best in this challenge we uh our residents commit to various specific actions to save a whole lot of water and uh we're that's very important so check it out at mywaterpledge.com and then another uh announcement that i want to make i was uh i was the folks who have in public health uh duke and in Durham county public health have asked me to give a shout out to Durham parks and rec for working so closely with them on getting the wheels vaccination site set up as you all know southern high school was no longer available when school started uh and so the um can i use the word pivot uh we pivoted to um the most over your i think that'll be word of the year for the pandemic uh we we uh the the folks who are working on this pivoted we moved the site to wheels and and i was asked to give a public shout out to Durham parks and rec for the great work that they did to help make that happen so shout out to parks and rec all right uh council member reeves feels like unprecedented it might be the word of the year and we'll we'll see all right colleagues uh we'll now move to uh priority items by our city manager madame manager good evening mr mayor madame pro tem members of the Durham city council i do not have any priority items for you this evening thank you madame manager madame attorney good evening mr mayor madame mayor pro 10 members of the city council it's good to see you i also do not have any priority items tonight thank you very much madame attorney madame clerk good evening mr mayor and madame mayor pro tem and council members i do have one item it does not require a vote uh just to let you know that the february 18th 2021 strapped minutes were revised and then reposted and that is my priority item this evening thank you very much madame clerk welcome colleagues will now move to the consent agenda the consent agenda is made up of items that the council has considered and worked on previously it could be approved by a single vote of the council items can be pulled from the consent agenda by a member of the council or member of the public in which case the item will be held for consideration at the end under the consent agenda agenda item one approval of city council minutes item two during bicycle and pedestrian advisory commission appointment item three procurement card performance audit dated february 2021 item four selection of the external auditor item five 2020 f y 2021 22 budget development guidelines item six big bid report february 2021 item seven change order seven with with lachace construction services llc for the city hall hvac an electrical renovation project item eight city code revisions for work conducted in the right of way item non-contract amendment number two to contract st 301 c paving services 2020 item 10 contract amendment number one to contract ws 86d professional services for water and sewer extension item 11 triangle region solid waste consortium memorandum of agreement colleagues you have now heard the consent agenda and i will accept a motion for their approval so moved second moved by council member freeland seconded by council member reese madam clerk will you please call the roll mere shul i mere pro tem johnson thank you council member caballero i and some member freeland i and some member freeman i and some member middleton i will die this member reese i thank you colleagues that concludes our agenda for tonight i'm afraid that next meeting will not be this brief so let's enjoy this one thank you all so much thanks to our staff we will see you all at thursday on the at the work session and i'm now going to declare this meeting adjourned at 745 yeah good night everybody good night


Good evening. I'm Gilbert Askar, professor here at SOAS, and I will be chairing this event. And before introducing our speakers for this evening and explaining how we will proceed, let me first welcome you in the name of one of the two sponsors of this meeting, the London Middle East Institute, of which I'm a member, but the director would have liked to welcome you, but he was not available this evening. So Dr. Hassan Hakimian asked me to welcome you in the name of the London Middle East Institute. And to speak in the name of the Centre for Jewish Studies, the other sponsor of this event, we have the director here of the Centre, Dr. Jair Wallach will say a few words. Thank you very much, Professor Askar. I'd like to welcome our speaker tonight, Professor Schlomo Zend, and our discussant, Professor David Feldman, a neighbor from Berkbeck. And to greet you all for coming. Thank you very much for coming and happy support for those of you who celebrate it. It's a pleasure to see you all and also wanted to invite you to other Centre for Jewish Studies events. We have weekly lectures on Wednesday evenings, and our next big event is film screening of the Shadow of Baghdad film about Iraqi Jews on the 20th of November. I'll be very brief not to take any time for what is promising to be a very stimulating discussion. I'll just say that, as you know, Professor Zend's previous two books stared a very heated debate, and I'm sure his third one would do as well because it touches on central and core issues of Jewish identity, past, present and future, first and foremost in Israel and the Middle East, but also for Jews in Europe, UK and elsewhere, and of course these are very different contexts. I think that as academics, intellectuals, I think our duty is to ask hard questions, sometimes provocative questions, and I think that Professor Zend has been doing it very successfully over the last few years, and if you agree with your arguments or if you disagree, I'm personally grateful for him for making us and pushing us to think harder and to reflect deeper on these very significant issues, so I leave the stage for the speakers. Thank you very much. Thank you. So, introducing our speakers, and it's my great pleasure to introduce one more time actually in the same room here, Professor Schlomo Sand, who presented his previous books, at least two of his previous books here at SOS, so he's here for the third time with this new book, but just a few words, although I'm sure most of you, if not all of you know about Professor Sand, he was born in 1946 in a displaced persons camp in Austria to polish Jewish survivors of the Holocaust and the family later migrated to Palestine. He studied history at the University of Tel Aviv and at the École d'Auzétue d'Ancien Social in Paris, and he currently teaches contemporary history at the University of Tel Aviv. He is the author of several books in Hebrew in French and some of them translated into English, four of them actually translated into English, Works and the Land, Israeli Intellectuals and the Nationalist Myth, The Invention of the Jewish People, which is the book who probably made or put Professor Sand on the global intellectual map on the nation and the Jewish people, which is at the same time a commentary on Ernesto Reneau, and The Invention of the Land of Israel. And this evening we are going to listen to him introducing his latest book. You have the title here, and he was just telling us that there is a subtitle that disappeared from the English translation, unfortunately, which is, I'll say it, which is an Israeli point of view. This is the original subtitle of the book. Professor Sand will first, as I said, introduce his book, explain what he wanted to convey through this book. After him, Professor David Feldman, who is the director of the Peers Institute for the Study of Antisemitism, here at our neighboring institution of Birkbeck, will discuss or comment on the book and maybe also on what Shlomo Sand will be saying. And of course, normally and naturally, we will ask Shlomo Sand to comment on the comment, after which we will open the discussion for you and for the audience, you will be able to put your questions, remarks and the rest. So that's how we will proceed and please join me then in welcoming our speakers for tonight. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming. Thank you to invite me to this university. It's the third time I think that I speak before you and I start to feel a little bit like in Tel Aviv. The only problem that I am obliged to speak in English and I prefer to speak in Hebrew, but I believe that it's not possible, no? Even that I see a few Israelis here. Anyway, I'm not used, you know, before yesterday I arrived to London and I'm not used to speak freely English, then excuse me for all the thoughts that I'm going to pronounce in English, OK? I will try to be clear, even I will make a lot of mistakes. This is the third one of a kind of a serial trilogy of books that I wrote about Zionism, Israel and Judaism. Now, this book is a very short one because people blame me that I'm writing too much in the first two books. Too long, a lot of footnotes, you see? It's not easy to read. And then I decided to write something else without footnotes. It's very difficult for a historian that is afraid from every word that he is writing to write without footnotes. See? It's not so easy. Then I decided to write without footnotes about a subject that is a kind of conclusion of my two first book about Judaism, Zionism and Israel. This book is personal, yeah? And the title, as you heard, is how I stopped to be a Jew. The question, the first question is, did I was a Jew before? No. From cultural point of view, I don't believe that a secular Judaism exists. Secular Judaism as an identity exists because people define themselves, secular people, atheists define themselves as Jews. It's not a problem. Jewish secular identity exists. The question is if culturally secular Jewishness exists and I don't believe. It's a long time that I was thinking about it. But I never thought that I will go to publish a book how I stopped to be a Jew. The first time that I started to think about the subject was by reading again an essay of Berton Russell. He wrote it in the 20s. Why I am not a Christian? Do you know it? Very famous one. No. You stopped to read Berton Russell. It's a very clever essay. Why I am not a Christian? In the beginning the name of the book was why I am not a Jew. But I developed it, I changed it a lot. But the idea, the first idea came from Berton Russell. If he is not a Christian, I am not a Jew. Now, there is a few other reasons that I decided to write this book. It also has a relationship with England and with London. I think it was three years ago. I was speaking here in the book shop. I don't remember the name of the book shop. A very nice place. I was speaking about my second book. The invention of the land of Israel. And it was with Brian Clark, the name of the moderator was Brian Clark, a very nice person from Oxford, I think. And we developed a discussion about Jewish people and he said that he agreed with me, all my critics about Zionism. But he is a very, very Jew. And I said that I don't understand in which way he is a Jew. We started to develop the idea. He said that he is a Jew, he feels a Jew. And I asked him which kind of Jewish culture, because he is a secular one, which kind of Jewish culture to his children. And he said that his children is not his children, it's their wife's children, which is from Christian origin. Then he don't have a problem of transmitting. Everything was very nice, very lovely. In the audience started to discuss. Oh, and you remember the evening, they discuss, most of the audience were from Jewish origin, good Englishmen. See in the corner, a group three or four non-Jew, from the Middle East, that didn't take a part in the discussion. And I feel very badly about them. And I remember going out from this bookshop and asking myself one question that I never asked before. How somebody that is not born to a Jewish mother can join the club?  And you can become British even, with a lot of difficulties. You can become an Israeli, you can become Muslims very easily. And you can become a Jewish Orthodox believer. In which way somebody can become a secular Jew without having a mother that is Jewish? And then suddenly I say, no, it's an exclusive club, a closed club, no? Nobody can join the Jewish secular identity. It's true or not? When I expose it in Tel Aviv somebody say, he can convert it to Judaism in after it to jump away. No, really, really. A lot of people say, but it is exclusive club. You cannot join the club. 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 200 years ago, nobody wanted to join the club. It's true. Today, today, it's become more trendy, more easy to be a Jew in the Western world. And I felt bad this evening about this, the people that were there, they didn't take a part in the discussion about Jewish identity. This is another reason to write the book. There is a lot of others. Why I don't feel today, like all my life, that I have the right or the obligation to define myself as a Jew? As a historian, I know that a secular Judaism doesn't exist. There is a question if a Jewish sensibility exists and what is the meaning of a Jewish sensibility that exists, but one thing I'm sure, if there is Israeli culture, language, food, music, et cetera, you cannot find a Jewish secular culture that the Jewish has in the world. Not food, not music. People mix between Yiddish culture and it was a very, very important culture in the past. It was destroyed by a lot of forces, Nazism, Bolshevism, Zionism, et cetera, but it was in East Europe a very, very important Yiddish culture, an Yiddish identity, an Yiddish political parties, et cetera, et cetera. But if there is an Israeli culture, if there is an Yiddish culture, I don't understand what is a secular Jewish culture. But all this is not a reason to write a book about it, no? The second, you know, every important thing has a lot of reasons. You start to understand history by understanding it before. There is other reasons that I felt very badly to define myself as a Jew. You see, I'm living in the Israeli state. I'm living in Tel Aviv. Most of my life, after the deplacement camp, I was living in Tel Aviv. Now, Israel defined itself as a Jewish state. Agree with me, yeah? Not only Bibe Netanyahu, not only Avigdor Lieberman, but also the Labour Party in Israel insist. And not only the Labour Party even merits. It's another political left party define Israel as a Jewish state. Now, I'm living in a state, a Jewish state, that a quarter of the population are not defined as Jews by the Minister of Interior. 20% of Arab Israelis, I'm not speaking about the occupied territories. I'm speaking about citizens in the state of Israel. And 5% of emigrant, dissident of emigrant from Eastern Europe were not with Jewish mothers. Together, 25% of the population in Israel without occupied territories are not considered as Jews. How come that Israel defined itself as a Jewish state? In most of the Jewish in the world accepted. In most of the establishment communities in the world, Jewish one, not only accepted, are very, very happy with it. Imagine tomorrow that Britain decided to define itself as an English state. Or Christian English state, much better. How long it will exist, your kingdom? Big Britain, Great Britain, how long? If it's defined itself, not a state, a kingdom of all the British, but only of the English one. How the Scott will feel? How the Welsh will feel? How the children of emigrant that become British citizens will feel? They will feel like Arab Israelis feeling in Israel. I mean, they are living, walking, dying in a state that consider themselves the state of Woody Allen and not of them. Why? I am sure that there are people here, even on the stage that consider themselves as Jews. If you want or you want one, it's your state. Yes, it's your state, Professor Feldman. It's not the state of my pupils, Palestinian-Israelian pupils, my every Palestinian-Israelian pupils in Tel Aviv University. Then I ask you, seriously, defining myself as Jew, continue to be a Jew in Israel today. It's immoral, because a Jew in the state of Israel is a privileged citizen. True or not true? I don't speak of the occupal territories. 47 years? A population without any political civic rights. Not 47 days. Not 47 weeks. Not 47 months. 47 years. In the Western model thinking, we need a peace process. In the labor members, party in Israel ask the members of the labor party in Britain not to vote to recognize the Palestinian state. Wait to the peace process. 47 years. They hope that it will be again 47 years. No, but you know, a few years ago, when I started to to talk about the history of the Jewish, I was sure that the territorial problem would finish very quickly. Rationality, because I tried to be a rational person. I understood that, you know, Israel will decide very quickly to stop the occupation, because she wants to stay a Jewish state. I make a mistake, by the way. If you want, I will develop it later, because I promise to speak only 30, maximum 30 minutes. I will continue to speak about Jewish identity and not about the political problem of Israel today. OK?  First of all, because I am a privileged citizen, as I said before. And if Britain will declare that it's an English state, the Englishmen that will insist that they are English will not be moral in my point of view. I compare it also with other states. You see? If Spain will declare tomorrow that is not a state of all the Spanish, but only of the Castilians, the Catalan will not take it very nicely. In the Basque, in the Andalusian also. But Israel is a state, a communitary state.  Not a republic. Not a state of its citizens. It's not looking the good of its citizens that are paying the taxes. It's looking of the good of the Jewish in London, hoping that one day they will arrive. This is another reason that I wrote this book. I can continue with all other reasons, thinking that all my life, when I define myself as a Jew, it was firstly because anti-Semitism. I remember repeating as a leftist militant always that I am a Jew till the last anti-Semitic person will live with us in this planet. And I repeat it and repeat it for a long of years and I become old with this idea. And then I decide it's not enough to define something in this way. Because if I would define myself as a Jew because of anti-Semitism, in some way I will give them a kind of victory. If I define myself as a Jew because of the past, because of the memory, in some way the Nazis won. Why? Because they consider the Jews as a sensillist figure in history. A sensillist identity. A sensillist, I am saying, Jewishness for the Nazis, like for the anti-Semitic racist is a sensillist identity. Then if I consider myself as a Jew, there is some essentialism, my definition. And I don't feel very comfortable about it. And I don't like that the Nazis won. They lost the battle and they won from the point of view of ideologically. People ask me, no, a Jew, stay a Jew forever. Then it's a victory of anti-Semitism. And now I decided that I don't know that the anti-Semitic will win. It's finished. And I decided that I am not a Jew. What was the reaction about it? Terrible people are feeling, how come? But a day before yesterday I took the plane from Tel Aviv to London. And I start to speak with a young woman about our travel to London. She said she is going to meet a guy and she knows that she is engaged. I said, oh, fantastic. Fantastic. You quote an Englishman. She said, yes, yes, but he is a Jew. Then I say, oh, I don't care. Why you don't care? If he was from Christian origins, the same thing. It's nice that you quote an Englishman. I ask her if he is blonde because she was with very dark hair. And if from where you come, she is from Tashkent, 20 years in Israel. Haifa. Tashkent. The look was real Tatarian, by the way. I mean, a very nice woman, very lovely woman, but with Tatarian, you know. A little Mongol. Me, too, have a little bit of it. Anyway, she is 20 years in Israel. And then I say, oh, it's fantastic. And she says, he is a Jew. I say, I don't care if he is a Jew or not a Jew. He is a good man, yes. But you have to understand, it's important that he is a Jew. I ask, why? You are not religious. By the way, all around us, it was a acidic people. And she was with jeans like this, very sexy. And I ask her, why so important for her that he is a Jew? Because of the blood, she says. Because of the blood. Which blood? Jewish blood? OK. She is not a scientific person. She is not intellectual. But I am walking in Tel Aviv University, where you can find departments that people, professors, scientific people are looking for the Jewish DNA. Do you know it? After publishing the first book, I was attacked. I remember an article about me in the New York Times. A very nice article. In the end of the article, Patricia Cohen, by the way, I don't know her journalist, she was not aggressive against me. But in the end, she called genetician in New York, and they say, no, no, Shlomo Sand is not right because there is a DNA, a Jewish DNA. It's not a joke. The problem is with Jewish identity today, secular Jewish identity, that it's too weak to be a real identity. How a secular Jew can define himself? By blood, like this young woman, no? There is a common DNA for the Jewish in the world or not? Look on the Jews. The antisemitic were right saying that it is a kind of people race. It's not a joke. In my university people are looking without a lot of success for Jewish DNA because it's so difficult to define a secular Jew. What is the other way to define a secular Jew? It's by the Shoah, no? You cannot stop to be a Jew because of the Shoah. I heard it a lot of times. And then defining somebody only around a memory, in a memory of a tragedy, can become very perversive. Perversive? Perver. Pervers. To define somebody identity only after a memory of a tragedy can be very perverse. And this is one of the acts of Jewish secular identity in the beginning of the 21 century. True or not true? While it can be perversive, because look on the education today in Israel, people are Jews because of the Shoah. The third way to define yourself as a Jew is to identify with Israel. It's one of the means to define yourself as a Jew. In the Israeli policy, the last 50 years are playing with this a lot. To be a Jew is to identify with Israel. To identify with the Jewish state. You will say, but it's not rational. You can become a Jew, to be a Jew and anti-Zionist. But in the end, in the end of the story, who won in this identical politics today? How Israel forced people to define themselves as a Jew? It feel very, very difficult to define themselves as a Jew. What Israel imposed on them? You have to identify with the Jewish state. In Israel is gaining a lot with this policy. I decided that I don't belong to the same identity of a Victor Lieberman. He want me to say a Jew. Bibi Netanyi want me to live in the Jewish state. I decided to resign. And I don't care what people will think about me. Thank you very much. Thank you, Shlomo, for the book and for your talk this evening. Thank you, Gilbert, for the invitation to speak. One of the pleasures of opening Shlomo's book was to see the dedication to Eric Hobsbawl there. It was my privilege to work with Eric. I'm at Birkbeck, where he was a historian, then became president of the college. And I ran one of the last research projects for him when he was awarded the Balzan Prize. I mention that, because I think one of the things Shlomo and I and Eric share is a sort of skepticism, a common skepticism in the face of the claims made by nationalisms of all sorts. And so I think that although some of what I say is going to be critical, I think it's important to keep in mind that sort of common starting point in a common project. Shlomo's book is short, which is one of its many merits. It's not war and peace. It's also, and this is actually worth saying, it has been brilliantly translated by a David Fernbach. It's packed with insights and provocations and autobiographical vignettes. It's written in a spirit of impassioned pessimism. And what I want to say about it will come like the Holy Trinity in three parts. I want to talk about Israel and Shlomo's Republican vision. Secondly, I want to ask why Shlomo causes so much ruckus with his work. And then I want to talk about Shlomo's view of Jewish history and of Jewish identity and of Jewish secular identity in the diaspora. Reading Shlomo's book, just on that point, reading Shlomo's book, I realised that it is not only Israelis who support the current government, who have contempt for Jewish secular diaspora culture. It's also, I think, I got that flavour from Shlomo's remarks. Well, how I stopped being a Jew, as Shlomo explained, is not only a call for Israel to create itself from the occupation, but it's also, and this is what is more rare, it connects that to the structural inequality of Jews and Arabs within Israel. The political argument at the core of the book concerns the configuration of nationality and citizenship in Israel. And as we've been told, 20% of the population of Israel is Arab. They live in a state that designates itself as the state of the Jews. Moreover, this difference in nationality has in practice, and despite rights as individuals consigned Arabs in Israel to a structure of discrimination in part as a result of legally sanctioned disadvantage, in part as a way in which resources are distributed. It's probably worth just for a moment to be dwelling on some of the facts and figures here to get a sense of the dimensions of the injustice. If we look at poverty, for example, 50% of Arab families in Israel, this is in Israel behind the 67 boundaries, live in poverty, whereas the equivalent figure for Jewish families is just 15%. A huge contributri factor here, of course, is the discriminatory and neglectful policies of the state. Over land, over planning, over rural and urban development, over housing provision. In 1940, eight Jews controlled 13.5% of the land. By the 1960s, this had risen to 93%. According to the Israeli scholar Oren Yifdachel, 50% to 60% of Arab-held land was expropriated by the state. Then there's the issue of unequal funding to Arab municipalities. Perhaps it's not surprising that in 2012, 67% of Israeli Arabs believed that Israel is a racist state. Shlomo pays attention to this and that he draws our attention to it and it's important that he does. His answer to the problem is the Republican one. Nationality and citizenship he proposes should become one and the same. Not to have Israeli citizens with a Jewish nationality, but Israeli citizens with an Israeli nationality which is open to all inhabitants. It's an inspiring vision. It was inspiring vision in France in 1789 which I'm sure is where Shlomo derives it from. I think it's no coincidence that the book was indeed written in French. The suggestion, Shlomo's focus on citizenship and nationality is important because I think it helps us to think about Israel and Palestine and the state of Israel itself in terms other than a primordial conflict of identities between Jew and Palestinian. But in terms of a more general problem which takes a particular and acute form in Israel of how citizenship can take account of more than one nationality within the territory of a given state. Although Shlomo had some fun asking what would it be if England, he says, well, let's say the United Kingdom belonged to England and not to the Scots or the Welsh or the Irish. Well, actually, there are a lot of people who think that it does just that and Scotland has just had a referendum based upon that premise in a way about English hegemony here. Which is not, of course, to say, well, Israel is just like the UK but it is a particular and, as I said, particularly acute manifestation of a general problem. In that case, a product of settlement, colonialism, war, displacement, migration and more war. What is needed in Israel, among other things, as the All Commission in the early 2000s said, is a massive program of affirmative action. It's not clear to me that in the face of such structural inequality in Israel and the need to redress that and in the increasing identification of the Arab population in Israel with Palestinian nationality, that a Republican citizenship is going to do the trick. After all, nationalities and identities are maintained in part for instrumental reasons. For Israeli Arabs or Israeli Palestinians and maintaining that identity, demanding and claiming rights on that basis may prove a more attractive program than Schlomo's Republican uninflected identity. There is, I think, a need to recognize the Palestinians as a national minority in Israel with collective as well as individual rights and without this, republicanism will just entrench a brutal majoritarianism. In going for republicanism, I think Schlomo implicitly he seems to reject the possibility of a pluralist and, if you like, a multicultural politics in Israel. And he does the same for Jews outside of Israel as well. But before coming to that question, I want to ask a different one, which is why do people get so upset by what Schlomo has to say? Is it because of his radical and anti-zionist position? Well, to a degree, that's so. He's standing outside of the consensus. But actually, that position is not so unusual. There are others who occupy it and don't necessarily express it in the same way, who don't attract the same vehement opposition. Is it because he's accused by other scholars of sometimes getting things wrong? Well, historians can be robust. They can respond to an erring colleague as if he were an amalikite who should be slain hip and thigh. But all the same, I don't think that is the answer. And it's not the answer to why at times I felt a degree of unease reading some passages in how I stopped being a Jew. Schlomo rails against those who, he says, regard Jewishness as an immutable and monolithic essence. Judaism, he says, has fashioned a strongly particularist ethno-religious morality. He reminds us of the stories of biblical genocide, the arts of the Haggadah, which call on God to pour out his wrath on the Goyim, and rightly points out that love thy neighbour as thyself was in that passage from Leviticus, who our neighbour was, was actually cast rather narrowly. It was not humanity in general. All of this is correct, but simply to characterize Judaism in these terms, and I say this, as someone who is utterly secular, who has not even got a smidgen of God-fearing decency in him. To present Judaism in these terms is a misleading caricature. It is cherry-picking, but it is picking only the rotten, maggot-ridden, infested cherries. The Hebrew prophets bizarrely are thrown away by Schlomo. They're really Christian, he says. And the reworking of Judaism in the 19th century, actually in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries, is ignored by him. In that period, even among the Orthodox, and I'll be brief, even among the Orthodox, Judaism was understood then as a religion in two parts. One part of it, they said, was universal. It was an ethical monotheism for everyone. And there was another bit for the Jews. Now, it clearly is the case that, if I forget his phrase correctly, a strongly-particularist ethno-religious morality can be used in Israel, drawing on Jewish teachings to justify policies and actions in the present. And to present this as the sum of Judaism, even of Orthodox Judaism, I think is partial. But what is really troubling to me is that in its partiality it reproduces exactly the criticisms made of Jews in Judaism by 19th-century Judeophobes and anti-Semites to assert that Jews could not be given equal rights, that it was used to justify Jews unequal disadvantage status as citizens in Europe. Moreover, whether unintentionally perhaps, I think this line of argument promotes the idea that the problems in Israel lie in Jewishness and in Jewish teachings. It gives comfort to those who want to give an essentialist misleading and anti-Semitic account of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. And indeed it threatens to undo the good work Shlomo has done by directing us to focus on citizenship and nationality. Now lastly, I want to turn to his comments on identity and the Jews. Shlomo issues a rallying call for a single Israeli citizenship and much else in his book follows from this. He and other Jews must cease to have a nationality which is separate from their citizenship and by the same token Israel is then off limits for Jews elsewhere in the world. Israel has a Republican Israeli citizenship, it's no longer the state of the Jews. The Jewish diaspora no longer has a claim to intervene or speak to Israel on the basis of ethnic affiliation. This, as I take it, is Shlomo's argument. The silencing of me and my friends of Israel's Jewish critics is in this collateral damage. You know, we're a sad accident but we do have to belt up if the program is to go forward. Well, Shlomo claims that secular Jewish identity as part of Israel is based on an identification with dissent. That's not the good dissent, D-I-S-E-N-T, but the bad dissent, D-E-S-C-E-N-T. There is no way of life, no culture, as he's told us, held in common by secular Jews. It is empty in contrast to the way of life, to the culture offered by religious Judaism. It is based simply on the idea of common dissent from the seed of Abraham and it is hollow. And he has much fun with what he rightly calls pseudo-religious practices. And he also rightly says that the main expression of the Jewish diaspora is in its identification with Israel and that in general the diaspora mobilizes support for Israel and its policies. So what's wrong with this? Well, I think first of all historically there's a massive gap in the account that Schlomo gives us. He goes from Jewishness as a culture in what he calls the Yiddish people for example, so Jewishness encompasses a religion and a way of life to nationality in Israel. What's missed out? What's missed out is the history of Jewish emancipation of Jewish civil equality in Western and Central Europe in and actually in either ignoring or denigrating the history of emancipation in an ironic way Schlomo affiliates himself with the main tendencies indeed of Jewish nationalist historiography. Why is this important? It's important because as Jews acquired civic equality Jewishness Jewish identity ceased to become a culture in the terms that Schlomo has defined it a way of an all-encompassing way of life. It became one identity that Jews had among many. They were also patriots they were also class subjects that they followed their professions that had an association of life in civil society. Jewish identity thinned out but it did not disappear. Why didn't it disappear? Well in part because Jews were still recognized by non-Jews as Jews with particular traits either positive or often negative but also not because of a myth of dissent although that was for some but because of history and culture and the ways in which at different times Jews felt that their history bore upon their present. And for Schlomo to say that there is no secular Jewish culture is simply not the case. It's wrong for the 19th, 20th centuries and it's wrong for the present as well. It is true to say that interaction with Israel forms a part of that culture but it's only a part of that culture and I think that one of the reasons why across western Europe and to an extent in the United States a secular Jewish culture is undergoing an increase in liveliness is actually a Jewish response to the politics of multiculturalism. It's actually an environment in which for some people this offers an opportunity. Now I think part of the disagreement between Schlomo and me here is actually over the use of the term culture and Schlomo earlier said in an important and revealing way that he's using culture in an anthropological sense and to that extent I agree with him, there is no secular Jewish way of life but if we think of culture as a set of signifying practices and identities there is a secular Jewish culture in Europe. The Aryan identity is also a culture, okay? The Aryan identity in the 30s is also was a culture, yeah? Sorry. The Aryan identity. So beyond that I'm sorry, I'll just... I'm sorry that I just... So actually do you want to say about identity again? Because I think that to say I will simply stop being a Jew to exit as an act of unilateral as an act of unilateral disaffiliation is to misunderstand the way in which identities work in society. We are less in control of our destinies than that. Identity is relational. Or not the only ones in control. Others name us, others position us and we have to respond in one way or another. Sometimes for some of us as Jews identity is imposed from without as well as constructed from within. It is dynamic. Shlomu may seek to exit from the Jewish fold but the fury that his work gives rise to arises directly from the fact that he is or was a Jew and as for Israel's Jewish critics whom Shlomu would be prepared to silence as a price worth paying I have to say that he will find most of us uncooperative. That silence is not an option because Jews in the diaspora continually are interpolated in the debate on Israel and Palestine by others. By those in Israel and outside who speak in our name or call on us to support Israel as Jews or in some cases to speak out in criticism. I'll draw to a close. I want to welcome Shlomu's book. Provocation is good but as history I have my differences with it and as politics I believe it is self defeating. I think he rejects potential allies both in Israel among Jews and Arabs there and in the diaspora. As autobiography it is a very entertaining and interesting read. But what about Shlomu's aspirations to stop being a Jew?  Shlomu is trying to divorce his ex-wife. Sorry again that I disturb you in thanks a lot that you accept to confront me it's not so easy for English Jews to confront Shlomu's hand. Thank you very much. Now, what is the problem with your definitions about nationalism ethnicity identity you expose me as a Jacobin no, I'm not it's ears that I'm against Jacobin Republicanism and I don't want that Israel will become a kind of Jacobin Republic not at all I'm not a Knanian Knanian Knanian you said it was a current, a cultural current in the beginning of the 50s no but saying that even Britain, you know has problems of identity I know it, I'm read papers I'm looking in the TV I know what the Scots, a part of the Scots is thinking but I don't like this way not to define exactly identical politics in a nation in a state nation Britain is different from France in a good way in a bad way in a good way that she kept much more pluralistic local culture than France and I'm much more English liberal than French Republican in this identical politics I don't want to make the Israeli Arabs Israelis, pure Israelis I want that they will keep besides their culture in have also my culture I think in the end of the book I'm saying that every Arab Israeli child has to learn very very carefully Hebrew but every Jew Israelis has to learn Arabic not only because he is living in a state with so many Arabs also because he is living in the Middle East then sorry to interpret at me Israeli now what is the difference between Great Britain in little Israel Britain is not saying to the Scots it's not your kingdom and you know from sensibility from identical politics is very important to be a little bit hypocrite Israeli is not hypocrite she say to the Arabs it's not your state try do it in London same to the Scots it's not your state it's not the same thing but I don't want to speak a lot about it I will give one example yes I know what is English hegemony in United Kingdom I have not illusions but it's not the same thing as the Israeli Jewish hegemony in Israel then I am not a Jacobin sorry forgive you one example tell me an English man from Christian origin can married a nice girl from Jewish origin or not yes but in Israel no in who fix the laws that a Jew cannot marry the non-Jew in Israel religious people not at all before the establishment in 1948 in 1947 Ben Gurion sign that in Israel it will not be civic marriages in that time the religious orthodox were very very weak it wasn't a problem electoral problem it was because Ben Gurion was afraid very afraid the Jews will become mixed non-Jews like in England like in United States like in France stop the marriages save the Jewish people by for better not let people married with non-Jew it's the only people in the world that you can save it if the person will not marry non-Jews true or not true think about identity if a Jewish person fall in love with the non-Jews what will happen with the Jewish sensibility with the Jewish identity with the pluralistic identity it will disappear in one, two, three generations sorry now you blame me in some way a very nice way but you blame me that a lot of argument is the argument of the anti-semitic of the 19th century not at all I'm not against Jewish identity in one condition the Jewishness will be the point of departure not the point of arrival first of all because it's empty secondly because I'm a universalist yes you cannot divorce an ex-wife but you can forget it now by the way I put a lot of episode jokes, anecdotes in my book it's much better than two others book but what is important in this book you see in the book that I wrote about the invention of the land of Israel I was very careful not to identify Jewishness with Zionism because for me historically Zionism is a kind of denial of Judaism it's clear in the second book about the land of Israel as you know Judaism all the establishment religious establishment of Judaism till the second world war were in majority against Zionism for a Jew the land the holy land wasn't his land it was the land of God God gave God took in when the Messiah will come he will give back maybe then as you couldn't feel that he is the property of the land of the holy land I insist in the book the Jewishness is not Zionism Jewishness is not nationalism but it doesn't mean that I like very much the Jewish religion anyway I am against all monotheism even the Muslim but it's very important to understand that Zionism picked up a lot of things from the Jewish tradition Zionism in Israel is not a Jewish state but they picked up like always the nationalism is doing what they like from the past they constructed the past now in this book the first time I insist that even Zionism is not Judaism it doesn't mean that Judaism is a very very ethical religion it's very important to understand it for Judaism a Jew cannot marry the non Jew do you know it? I am against it, I am for love I don't care if my daughter will marry the non Jew maybe you yes, not me or ex-daughter again, again, again you have to understand Jewish ethics in my point of view are not the ethics that I dream of why? because in Jewishness the ethics is intergroup you say it in English intergroup it's not universalist ethics you have to understand Muslims or Christianity why? not only because of the Bible because it was a minority that suffered from strong power around that developed an intergroup ethics you cannot find rabbis that fought today in England, in France for the suffering against the suffering of the Palestinians Orthodox rabbis? not you can find Orthodox rabbis fighting against the Zionism the Zionist state not because the solidarity with the Palestinians, not at all you understand me? there are a lot of Orthodox rabbis that are fighting against Zionism but you don't have in the Jewish ethics you don't have a cosmopolitism ethics universal ethics the fact that so many Jews and I insist in the book in the 19th century also in the 20th century so many people from Jewish origin fought in all the battles for the human being all the battles against suffering it wasn't because the Jewish ethics they were humanists if they were far away from the Jewish religion from Marx passing Rosa Luxembourg till Deutsche or Howard Zinn but all these generation of people from Jewish origin Jewish background like me by the way fought for universal causes not because they were Jews because they left Jewishness the people that stay with the Jewish religion didn't fought for causes universal causes do you know it and by the way in the beginning of the 21th century there are less and less people from Jewish origin that fought for universal causes you notice it why because the reason that so many people from Jewish origin fought against injustice against suffering because they came from a suffering minority a suffering long years minority that suffer from Christian civilization much more than from the Muslims lately in Paris, London in New York people are speaking about the Judeo-Christianity you heard about the civilization Judeo-Christianity civilization people like the term in the first book I heard that my aunt didn't know when they pushed her to Auschwitz that one day Europe, the western world will define itself as a Judeo-Christian civilization it's nice, no? there is not a Jewish Christian civilization there is a Christian civilization that oppressed the Jewishness much more than all other civilization in history this is the truth in this minority become a very tough minority believing in a chosen people it was one of the conditions to stay a Jew to know that you are a chosen people in it was all right for me but today to meet people that define themselves as Jews knowing that you is a shik it's trendy today they are exceptional in the western world and also deeply it disgusts me people that try to make profit of suffering capital of the past making symbolic capital of suffering of the past disgusts me profoundly and this is one of the acts in Jewish identity in the western world today no not only Bibi Netanyahu is doing it not only Bibi Netanyahu insists that Israel has to have a nuclear weapon in nobody else in the Middle East why? why the Iran cannot have a weapon a nuclear weapon because it's a small state in face of the great state of Israel I don't want Iran will have a nuclear weapon but all this discussion international discussion I asked myself how come how it's natural that Israel will have in great nuclear submarine from Germany lately Iran cannot develop a nuclear weapon how come this is a Jewish identity besides a lot of other things no it's very important I am not against Jewish identity in one condition that in this identity you didn't try to separate yourself from other people not to mix with other people not to want that your decedent people will become stay Jewish in not to live with others now you spoke that the world is composed of identities I have a little chapter in the book that identity is not a hat hat you can have a lot of identities I am rich with identities I will not expose all of them here yes I am Israeli I am a professor of history I am a lot of other thoughts and it's important everybody has a lot of identities in history two kind of identities were exclusive identities it was monotoism it was modern nationalism you cannot be English and French in the same time till lately when the nationalism started to you cannot be German and French in the same time this is the essence of modern identity that we call nationalism but there is other identities that can live with other identities but you cannot be a Jew in a Muslim at the same time you cannot be a Christian in a Muslim at the same time I am against this exclusive identity of any sort and for the end because I don't want to be too long I am very curious what you are thinking about all this problem but one thing important about empty identity you see as a historian I know, I studied the Aryan identity you will agree that the Aryan identity existed existed in the past you agree with it or not in the thirties, no? oh, in the thirties a lot of Germans believed that they are from Aryan race it was a identity ah, you agree that it wasn't a real race a real blood but the identity existed if people identify they save as Aryan the Aryan identity exists I don't respect this identity you know why? not only because it was based of mythology mythology not only because this identity was exclusive identity that consider people in essentialist way but it existed a lot of Germans even Englishmen in that time consider themselves as Aryan I ask you how we have to accept this kind of identity exclusive identity in another way I don't think the Jewishness is the same thing like the Aryanism not at all I don't compare first of all from the ideological point of view it's not the same even if in Judaism day you have a base of racist thinking but it was important that the Aryan identity if you want was the identity that not only with Jews but with Slavs and all others took them all other identities has inferior identities you agree with it the Jewish identity is very very specific but one thing you can compare the Aryan identity was a weak identity this is one of the reason of the aggressivity of this identity you understand me it was empty from cultural point of view it was empty there is not Aryan culture in history they try to build it a little bit Wagner and others but you cannot speak about Aryan culture you can speak about German culture about the Israeli culture about English culture even Scott culture a little bit secular Jewish culture no, it's identity I agree I'm not against Jewish identity everybody can identify himself as he want but let me identify myself as I want the Jews most of the Jews don't accept it it's three days that I get in got letters after the publication that blame me to be a traitor thank you very much thank you very much to both speakers for this fascinating very lively discussion which is actually far beyond just the topic of one religion actually it can extend the discussion to all religions in some way religious identities and the issue of identity beyond religion itself so this is a very interesting discussion