Hello and welcome to the Digital Freethought Radio Hour and WOZO Radio 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. We're recording this on Sunday morning, August 13, 2023. I'm Larry Rhodes or DJ Douter 5. And as usual, we have our co-host Wombat on the line with us. Hello Wombat. Hey, it's me on the Wombat. And for a special guest today, we have John Richards all the way from England. Hello, I'm not a Wombat. Hmm? I'm not a Wombat. Oh, you're not a Wombat, well. We don't have them. We can't all be that lucky. We have rats in mind, but no Wombat. Hopefully good pirate Higgs will join us in a bit. I just realized that the word not actually has a T at the end of it. We've been doing it wrong this whole time, Larry. We've been doing it wrong this whole time. Not. That's the how you pronounce it. Now I know. I'm not a Wombat versus I'm not a Wombat. Oh, it's some consonants. Well, it depends on where you are in England or even Northern New York. You'll just drop those T's all together. Yeah.  That's like. And of course, and of course in France, it's actually against the law to pronounce any of the last six letters of a word. Oh, well, that explains a lot. No. Anyway, digital free thought radio hours, a talk radio show about atheism, rational thought, free thought, humanism and the sciences. And conversely, we'll also talk about religion. Religious faith, best ofarianism, God's holy books and superstition. And if you get the feeling you're the only non-believer in your town, well, you're just not even here in Knoxville, in the middle of the Bible Belt. We have a group of over a thousand of us. We're the atheist society of Knoxville or ASK. And we'll tell you more about us after mid-show break. So be sure to stick around one bit. What's our topic today? What's your end goal, atheists? What do you really want? But we're going to get into that. I want to do a quick little catch-up starting with our own John Richards. John Richards, how you been? I hadn't seen you in the last week due to a disc golfing venture with some friends. How you been since then? Yeah, we all missed you last week. That's sweet. We took the opportunity to put our feet up and have some time off. Nice, nice, nice. What was your particular beat-up relaxation highlight? Well, normally it would be a bit of cricket, maybe, and possibly only as a spectator, you understand? Okay, I was about to ask. How did, by the way, you said Australia was playing, and did they do well or not? Well, it was a fantastic series. You know, it was the test series, which is fought for an earn that is literally that big. You know, in all the other competitions, they have an enormous trophy that you can barely lift. Sure. Well, this is the size of an egg cup. Okay. But it's regarded. It's not what it is. It's what it represents that matters. Two wildly blistering things that I'm taking for granted in this conversation is the word earn for, I guess, trophy. Is it the same thing? No, it's earn. Larry, can you help me out with that turn? When I hear earn, I think of cremation. Same, same, same. Oh, so it's a lot like that.  You shouldn't know what the size of an egg cup is. Oh yeah, egg cups.  I'm like, where's my cup? I can't hold this with my bare hands. Where's my ketchup? It's a container. It's got a base, a stem, and then a bowl. Oh, so it's a tiny, tiny little guy. I'm defining an earn. It's a goblet though, right? It's like a, ah, okay, okay. Similar to a goblet, yeah. But this one is a little tiny. It's made of clay, I believe, you know, baked clay. And the thing about it is that it contains some ashes. So it is very much like a cremation earn in miniature, but the ashes are said to be of the bales. Those are the little pieces of wood on top of the stumps and you mustn't disturb. Otherwise you will lose your opportunity to bat. So those little horizontal pieces. Exactly. The top of the verdict. Okay, okay. You got it. And what happened. I don't know. 100 years ago. Was for the first time ever. Australia, which, you know, had only recently been populated by convicts. Which we. I like the little giggle. You know, there are other people in Australia before you guys dropped to convicts. Okay. A little bit of history that they don't teach as much. Yeah, yeah. A bit like America in that respect. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we deported the people that we disapproved of. After a few generations, Australia has grown enough to have actually generated a cricket team. And they, they had the effrontery triumph players. And of course. Season after season, we beat them until one day. One, one year, I should say. Australia actually beat the English team. And back home here, it was just, it, the headline was cricket has died. So the bales, the bales, the little horizontal pieces of wood on top of the vertical stumps. They were burned. And the ashes were put in this and to signify the death of English cricket. And every four years now, we compete to win. You brisk. We compete if you don't win, it's dead. Exactly. Yeah. So every four years now, we compete against Australia to win these very prized ashes. Okay. Okay. It's in the clay. It's not like a cup of clay. No, no, it's the crumbled up and they're inside the little earn with a lead on it. Yeah. Got it. Got it. You're trying to get back all the ashes to, to resurrect, resurrect. Cricket in some sort of like religious fashion. You'll, you'll. You'll get back all the ashes. You'll get back all the ashes. Damn it. We want to win back our ashes. You got to get back your ashes. That's it. I see. So it's a personal stake. That's, that's a very interesting story. So, so let me tell you, let me answer your question, which is that the, the recent series is called a test. Series. And there's five matches, each of which can last five days long. And the recent series was phenomenal. We won the seed stuff. We were there biting our finger nails, wondering who was going to win. And it was a draw, because we won two, they want to, and the middle one was drawn. The middle one. So, but, but because we didn't beat them, they kept the ashes. Oh, so you, it's one set of ashes. They can, they don't even make a new trophy. It's like the Stanley Cup. It's just, it's like, we've got to get our trophy back. We're doing another competition. No, no, no, no. Our core stakes. Our core stakes. I think I'm not sure whether the ashes travel with the winner. So, John, here's your question. In, in Lords, the London cricket ground, North London cricket ground. Or maybe they travel. Perhaps if you win them, you'll get to take them home and bring them back next time. I don't know. Good points. Next time just pray more. That never fails. The winner always is the person that prayed to God to win. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It always. It always fails when I want to parking space. So God never helps me out there.   Larry would love to check in with you. How you've been my friend. Oh, fine. I took my motorcycle out last weekend. After the show. Well, after what we would have had to show. And I rode for three hours and way too much. I did not want to do that again. I kept wanting to go down to Dayton and visit the, the site of the scopes trial. In Georgia. No, no, it's halfway between Knoxville and Chattanooga. Oh, okay. 50 miles south and then 20 miles west. Interstate. Okay.   Yeah. I got about 30 miles away from it. I'm going to go home because I don't want to add another hour to where I am. And I'm already tired. Sure. But when you're 73, you know, you just, you get tired more easily. How did you get through the weather?  I never really encountered any. Okay. Okay. Well, that's good. That's good. I mean, I'd hate to see you get stuck somewhere, but like, again, we were talking before the show started that you're in. Well, that's what made us a tiring. It was, it was really hot. Some were beating down on me all the time. So. If only they made like a motorcycle that had like two extra set of wheels so you can't fall over and like an enclosure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe like air conditioning, maybe. And maybe like airbags. I think that would be pretty interesting. I might have to do that next time. That sounds like two motorcycles strapped together. Hey, you might be on this up and done. Hey, I had a good weekend as well. Like I said, I went out and try to do a lot of things that. I had a disc golf mini tournament that I was involved in. Got even. I was really happy about that a new course. But the cool thing was I got to play on a card. Card is how they break up players and everybody on the card. I already knew. So it was just like being out with your friends. And it was a fun time because I knew all the four, the, the, the three other people who are with me. And we're all having a great time. And one of the guys there was like a particularly good friend of mine. I've been over to his place. I've met his parents and met his wife. And he was like, Hey, you know, this kid like slowly grow older from being diapers, being in diapers to like walking and talking. And we were having a conversation. He pulls me out. We're to the side. He's like, listen, can I ask you something? And I said, yeah, absolutely. He's like, okay, I don't want you to take this personally, but you're an atheist, right? He's like, yeah, of course I'm an atheist. Like I'm very open about that, right? With my friends. And I knew he was a, I knew he was homeschooled. And I also knew like, he was very, very much very specifically religious because you don't necessarily have at the fundamental age where you can like build a lot of interpersonal relationships with different people in a public system. You are more or less following whatever your parents say. And that becomes your fundamental appreciation. And so he said, well, listen, I'm a Christian. No, that surprised me. But like, what do you mean when you say you're an atheist? Cause I know there's like different definitions of it. I just want to know where you're coming from at that. And so I explained the whole thing. And you know, for me, I can break down a couple of sentences and he's like, okay, that's cool. Cause I would rather have my daughter be around. You as like an atheist. I think that's a good exposure for her, but I will compare to what she might get from like YouTube or online or what those people on the news are doing and stuff like that. Like I'm good. She has you as an example. But here's my thing. Here's my bottom line. I'm a Christian. I'm very, this is my fundamental morals. I, I, I, I really, I think you're a good person. And I just want to let you know that like, I love you and I, but I won't celebrate what you're about. I won't celebrate atheism. I'm not going to go to your parades. I'm not going to celebrate if it's a federal holiday. I'm not about that. And I'm like, wait, we have parades. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to your conventions. If you, please don't be too atheist around my daughter or anything like that. Until I give her a chance to explain about, but like, I think you're a good example either way, but like, give me time to explain.  Like try to like, you know, be as normal or not normal. You didn't say normal, but try to not be as atheist as possible. I'm like, it's totally fine. So like in my head, I was thinking about that. Got in my head. I did beat him by the way. As he was like telling me this, he was just missing putts left and right. He was like trying to make a putt and he missed it. And he tried to put us like, you should focus on the game. You should focus on the game. But the main thing I was going to say was like, I just told him flat out God loves me more. But the idea that he said, listen, I don't want to go to your, your conventions. I don't want to celebrate your holidays. I don't want to go to your parades. I don't want to celebrate you. I thought that was a really interesting thing. And I said, you know, I followed up with like, that's fine. And if you ever have questions about, you know, atheism in a nutshell, more than welcome to come to me whenever you feel comfortable with doing it. But I don't know how to turn necessarily not believing in God off, but like we, we had more small talk afterwards and went back to disco. I thought it was an interesting though thing though, because there's the idea of like, did I not ask for enough? Is it not fair for me to demand someone to celebrate my atheism or go to our conventions or go to our meetings left and right or attend our podcasts?   Yeah.   No, of course not. No, he doesn't. He comes to you and tells you that. That's the problem I have. Right, right, right. There's also like he lives right next to a bunch of Amish people.  It's like, no, you, one, you, you don't respect or believe in our God. And two, we can't come to terms with you because we have a completely different worldview. Plus you feel plastic. We don't do plastic. And I'm like, I see plastic in your buggies, guys. I know you're not following. You're right. You're driving on our roads that we pay taxes for your guess how we pay for those. We sell things and there are things that are made out of plastic. You're benefiting from us whether you choose to do so or not. Either way though. Either way, I was, I asked them, oh, John Richards, did you have any comments on the idea of like, what was the agenda that perhaps this Christian man was alluding to with regard to, Hey, I won't celebrate your, you know, your, your, your atheist celebrations, your holidays, your, your events, maybe your heroes is, is that fair? Would you have asked for more? Would you have drawn? I want to, I want to roll back a bit and. Okay. Find out where he's coming from and why it's all wrong. I saw wrong. Okay. And it's because atheism ends with. Ism. So he thinks that it's an ideology. He thinks it's a belief system. He thinks there are values and principles like he has. He thinks there's a belief system. Which is Christianity is. Christianity is another ending like ism. It's, it's applied to belief systems. And so what he doesn't understand is he's expecting us to be like him and have a belief system. Whereas atheism is not a belief system. That's exactly what it is. It's, I don't believe what you're telling me. That's all it is. So, so well said. Yeah. So I wanted to say that first of all, but then. The reason that he came up with this don't be atheistic around my daughter is because he thinks that we've got attitudes similar to his of tribalism belonging to our tribe and demonizing him because he's not, you know, we don't do that. You know, he can believe what he likes. Whatever, if he wants to believe in the Easter bunny, that's fine. Right. What we don't want is for him to impose his beliefs on us. Right. Or society in a systemic or administrative level. Like if you want to believe in heaven, that's fine. You can believe in heaven, but don't. You know, cut health insurance because you think having a heart pack is a good thing. And, and you don't want to have medication or good quality healthcare for people because paradise is right behind the corner. So we will strive for is a good quality of life here with what we can intend with the current tests that we have to assess reality. And if you have a more supernatural understanding of how the world works, that's fine, but don't let it impact the same objective reality that we're all sharing. Absolutely. This is not a rehearsal. This is the only life we're going to get. So let's do the best we can while we're here. Yeah. I want to plug my global atheist news because in this week's edition, I've got a clip from some New Zealand Jehovah's witnesses. Interesting. Okay. Now, you know, you know, the Jehovah's Witness is one of the most extreme fundamentalist cults that they're in Christianity. That's my mom. You're talking about. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry ties. Now you're making it so much harder for her to watch the show that I keep talking about. You know, some of the times when I'm on the shows is like, you're not talking about me. Are you? It's like, no, we're talking about religious beliefs, spiritual. Let me tell you about these two people in New Zealand. They're young, young people. They're cousins actually. I think the bloke is 21. And she's about seven years older, but they, they've escaped from Jehovah's Witness. And of course the outcome of that is you get shunned. Right. Yeah. So, so she tells how she had to suddenly find her feet as a, as a separate. Independent individual without the, you know, the support of a family and friends and colleagues. She was suddenly all on her own. And it's a big challenge to have to do that.  The people out here, not in Joe, the JWs don't hate you. There are some good ones. And this is what got her out of the JWs because she started questioning. She started going to her church leader and saying, listen, there are good people who are not JWs. Why should they die in the Armageddon? And why shouldn't they be excused like us? And honestly, that's coming to the reality. Coming to.  Do they believe that it's predestined whether you go to heaven or not? Yes. Then I don't understand how they can say, you know, you're with us. You're not with us. If it could be anybody in the world that's predestined to go to heaven, whether they're a part of their religion or not. So. Why are you putting me on trial to like try to explain something? I would like, I am curious. And if you can explain it, that would help. No, it can't. That's fine. That's kind of the, the, the concept of why I have an issue with it, but you know, the idea could be, well, no one knows what the list is. Right. So without trying, you don't know if you're actually not on the list or not. So I think only that, but like the people who are on the list. They're on the list. They're on the list potentially. And this is the more radical. This is the more out there. Can recruit. People to host. As like, Hey, I'm on the list of people who will be chosen. And I can pick my. But nobody knows if you're on the list or not. Nobody knows on the list, but the people are. Nobody knows. George. Why are you? Why are you cross questioning me? I'm just. No, I was trying to make a point. I didn't want him to be annoyed. What he was saying. Surely. Surely. Surely the first consideration, the first criterion for being on this invisible list is. Belonging to the Jw's. Yeah, you would think it'd be like the first one, though. You know, they do make a lot of work trying to recruit people. And it's, it's a conflict of. It's a. It's a juxtaposition of ideas, isn't it? Of ideologies where it's like we already have a chosen list. Okay, so we don't need to keep recruiting constantly right knocking on people's doors, sending out envelopes stuff like that. No, because the practice of being a jovial witness is to share your life. First Peter or first Timothy Peter or something like that where you, if you're on Light of Hill you are Peter 315 I think. Thank you so much. Yes, you are there to advocate so if you don't advocate you're not really jovial witness. And the only the true jovial witnesses can go to the afterlife and that list has already been decided so you have to just constantly keep shedding the message of, I'm invited to a party but you may not be able to come, but your invitation but it might be expired, but here's another invitation, you're just heading out expired invitations for a bulk of your time isn't that weird. Anyway, I had this follow up conversation with him because I did have a chance to drive he drove us. I car pulled with him to the course and he took us back. What we're in the car he wanted to do some follow up talks, and one of them was, you know, hey I think you're a good person. And it wasn't in spite of your atheism, and I was happy that he didn't say this like I think you're a good person even though you're an atheist. It's, I think you're a good person, and you're an atheist and I think that's really interesting.  And he says no I think there are in fact bad people who are Christian, and I also think that there are good people who aren't Christian. And so I said, then it's not necessarily the case that being a Christian makes you a good person. And he's, this is like some of the first time he's like rationalizing this but he did follow up with. Well, I can't be a good person if I'm a Christian, because if I think I'm good. If I think I'm good and we'll talk about this in the next act, because if I think I'm good, then I have pride and ego, and that is the root of all evil. So I can't be a good person.  Larry, what do you think. There's no shows on this before you. It has nothing to do with whether you're a good person or not to get to heaven. Thank you. You have to believe you have to accept Jesus and, and that's it. That's the you can be any kind of person you want to be. And a lot of Christians seem to take that at face value and just act any way they want to and say it's God's God's will. They don't care, but as long as they believe they accept Jesus as their savior. You can get in with being a terrible person as long as you accept Jesus. And that's basically at the last minute, at the last minute, you don't have to accept him earlier. You're going to accept him on his on your deathbed. Yeah, exactly. So, but I'm more interested in the good people, honestly, couldn't why is that such a, why is that not as popular.  There are Christians who would not be friends with an atheist. Yeah. And you are a person who's good enough to see past someone's like lack of religion or color their skin, or even sexuality like regardless you like are really cool guys like yeah I like to see people and see them pass it's like, Okay, that's cool. But the people who are don't do that and who are our Christian can cite in their Bible, why they don't get along with the other. And he's like, Well, that's, huh. Well, that's a problem because it's how they're interpreting the gospel. It's like, it's a literal interpretation.  Yeah, but there's a you there's a relationship that I have in my heart and like I'm aware of the the the wiggle room he was giving himself. My main takeaway is, I'm glad you're the kind of Christian that could be said an example for other Christians of how to interact with people and how to ask good questions.  And I don't have a problem with you being a Christian but I want more Christians to take an opportunity to ask these kinds of questions like yeah Christians and atheists alike it's like yeah everybody should be asking questions and getting along with people. What do you think Larry. I sit out in public, you know, with an AS asking atheist sign. I like to have several reasons printed up that I can, I can answer the question. Why are you doing this, because they always ask me that why, why are you saying you're trying to press non beliefs on everybody. Well, first of all, I'm not trying to press it I'm here to as a resource and be in case people want to come up and talk to me and ask me questions. I'm not out there knocking on doors are giving away, you know, literature to people on the street. But one of the reasons I'm out there. Forgot my rant I forgot. Why are you thinking what you want to say. I think what we are trying to do is clear our names of all the, the do do that has been attached to it. I mean we wouldn't have to, we wouldn't have to ask an atheist. They hadn't got this jaundice view. Right. That helped me. Remember what I was going to say. Because the people who are representing what we are and who we are generally the religious leaders of the church or whatever that are telling the people in the puse you know atheists are bad people you know how can you possibly be good if you don't believe in Jesus. You know that type of thing. And that's one of my rain reasons, and I usually thank them for coming and talking to me and trying to get the answer directly from an atheist, which is the point you were making earlier time. Thank you. Just stop demonizing us. Exactly. Maybe that's what we want as our end game we'll go into this more in the second half but like the idea of maybe the only thing we want is to stop being demonized and chastised, and we'll accept your tolerance, you know, you don't, I don't, maybe you guys in the second half can tell me where all these parades and events are happening because I do know there's some of them I spoke at a couple of them. And as far as celebrations will go into it in the second half of the show Larry Wayne take us out. Okay, this is the digital free thought radio hour and w ozio radio 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. We'll be right back after this short break. Welcome back to the second half of the digital free thought radio hour. I'm doubter five and we're on w ozio radio 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Let's just take a moment to talk about the atheist society of Knoxville. ASK was founded in 2002. We're in a 21st year now have over 1000 members. We have weekly in person meetings if you'd like to come down and talk to us every Tuesday evening in Knoxville soul city at Barley's tap room in pizzeria. Look for us inside at the high top table or if it's pretty weather outside on the deck. You can find us online on Facebook, meet up calm or at our website, Knoxville atheists.org, or you can Google Knoxville atheists, just that simple. If you don't live in Knoxville, you should still go to meet up and do a search for an atheist group in your town. Don't find one. Start one. Right. Wherever you want to pick up there. I'm going to pick up on the ride back home that I had with my friend who was a Christian who won some questions about atheism and let me know that he wasn't going to celebrate it but he was happy that he knew that I was a good person. Not in spite of my atheism, but in conjunction with it. I asked, you know, there was time in the drive back for me to just, you know, ask, I didn't, I don't ask these things. Christians just like to sometimes throw them out as like a, you're just a weird little, like green tiger that sitting next to me in my car I got to ask you what's like to be a green I can explain my world to you as an atheist when you're when you're out and especially in Tennessee in the South, be prepared for just people explaining why they believe in God at you and like having like good follow up so he was explaining listen I just, you know, from our world do I just don't. It makes sense to me that when I look out the world that everything here was just completely, you know, emackedly put together.  There's no way that planes coming back together again, yet you look at the world and everything's completely functioning it just, it makes more sense to me that either God made everything. Or it's a complete random explosion. And I'm asking like who told you it was a random explosion it's like, well I'm not saying anyone said that I'm just saying, it makes more sense to me that it has to be God I'm like how did you know those are the only two options what method are using to figure that out is like, well I don't think I'm not saying it's the only two options I'm just saying it makes more sense to me. So like all I'm doing in my mind is getting to his first methodology that he's using to assess how his conclusions are true, because I'm not going to attack the conclusion. I'm going to attack the methodology that he's using the link his identity to the conclusions that he has. And so I'm just, I'm hitting the, the top layers of the onion, until we get to the first methodology statement it makes sense to me. I said, is it. I'm saying it makes sense to you and that's why you believe it's like yeah that's what I'm saying it's like, is that a reliable way to come to a true conclusion. He's like, oh I think so. And I said, that's fair if I brought in a Muslim, or a person that believe in Joe awareness because we were talking about that too. And they said it makes sense to me that my God is the one that made everything. Do you think they that's something they would say he's like no that's something they would say. They're all very different conclusions very different guys is like yeah that's very true their guys are not true. Then what does it say about the method that you're using. If it can come to radically different conclusions by people who earnestly are following what makes sense to them, because if I step on your gas pedal. That's a reliable way for the cart to move forward as long as there's gas and tank, your car can step on that gas pedal, you can step on the gas pedal we can all use the same method to come to the same, the outcome, but the method that you're using for the most important decision in your life. Whether or not you believe in this God is so potentially unreliable that anybody else can use that same method and write a completely different conclusion was that say about your interest and trying to figure out something that's actually true. And he was quiet for a long time I thought this good friend he is thoughtful. He didn't like, you know, over talk me and he finally said, well you know I don't know everything. Exactly right, but there's no, there may not be a good method. And, and, and I'll just, I'll just finish the story woke up I'm sorry. I, I said yeah, he's like there may not always be a good method for something tie. I was like, that's true but when I run into that situation. What I do is I just say, I don't know. Larry thankful about that. Right. No, there's a meme going around the internet. One or two. I'm sure. Let me interrupt my story. It says you can't people who don't who are basing their beliefs on things that are not rational cannot be talked cannot be reasoned with you can't reason with a person who's irrational. But I feel that all of us. I mean I used to believe you used to believe tie. Yeah, and you were always an atheist. I mean, it happens every day that people get argued out of irrational beliefs, and we need to fight against that concept if we can. People do get argued out of their beliefs all the time. The proposal of having parades and, and conventions, because I do that I don't do parades but I stage gatherings and put on shows where I have very academic top expert speakers, and I invite people and they come and we have a good time. There's a lot of interaction, there's food, you know, we're meeting together like minded kindred spirits, you know, but we're not proclaiming any doctrine when we're not saying you must believe this that or the other. In fact, I had a really good unsolicited review from the last event that we held in London. It was a lady who said, I actually attended I'm one of the few people who was privileged to attend this wonderful magical event. And she goes on to say that all the speakers were very good. And to my surprise, extremely humble. Why is she surprised. Hey, this is, it's, it's quite normal for people that the speakers included Lawrence Krauss and Richard Dawkins and, you know, and she was surprised that these people are humble but why, because people who accept that they don't have all the answers. They expect them to be humble. It's the dogmatic ones who claim to have the answers that are hubristic. It's the other way around from what she expected. Anyway, I'm staging another one of these events in September in the midlands. This is, I was talking about this last time we were together. It's near Birmingham, which is not Alabama, but in the midlands of England. The reason I do it is not to promote atheism, because it's actually a the isn't. And what I do is I try to overcome the ignorant. Don't call it a new term that I think Christians are going to take that one day and make a website. We're the atheism. I'm sorry. So what I'm trying to do is to spell the ignorance that makes people come to the decision like your carpool friend did. Yeah, it makes sense to me. It shouldn't make sense to you specifically. It should be out there for everyone to see right and come to a conclusion about. Yes, it's a weak basis. And listen, it's nothing wrong for having something that makes sense to you like if I turn on the light switch I understand light switches work that makes sense to me like that's fair but the problem is is it's not the most reliable solution for me to reach a conclusion. And if it's the most important decision in my life for the most important relationship in my life, I would love to have a higher quality or a higher standard methodology to reach that conclusion, because clearly, people could have different reasons for why it makes sense to them that a light switch works, but the light switch is still going to work. So it's more important for me not to have an assumption that that's based off of a reality, but rather have a like an in depth understanding that I can test where we can test our different understandings of how lights which work and actually knock down the ones that do and don't and that way if I'm wrong because I care about being right. I can correct myself to the most accurate methodology that's not just rely on, well it makes sense to me it's like no I actually tested it against other hypotheses that are out there. We found something that that's an accurate model for how light switches actually work. If we do for light switches and we can do it for cars let's do it for God as well. There's no reason not to, there's no reason not to. You only have to look back in history to see that a lot of things that once made sense to. Yes, you know the earth is flat the sun goes around it, you know, heavy items will fall faster than light ones iron ships will sink. It goes on and on and on. It's sort of gold at the end of the rainbow. Right, right, right, right. This is all examples of how making sense to you right not a good technique for coming to a reliable conclusion. Absolutely true. Absolutely true. I mean I think back on like germ theory, just the idea of like Oh germs don't exist what are you talking about tiny little animals that live in my hands. They're big things that are in grasses. Now excuse me while I go give birth. Watch my hands. There's the other fun thing where I asked. So after we got rid of it makes sense to me we asked I went down one extra layer. You know typically faith is the number one core but I let the people walk me there, and it was a short car ride so the next layer that we got to was. Well, it's when I just look at the world it looks designed to me like this world just seems designed and I wanted to dwell on that a bit it's like what do you mean by design is like, well it just looks super complicated like you look at, you know, how grass grows and then the animals eat the grass and then they fertilize the grass like there's just such a level of complexity there that it has to be designed it's just so intricate, like it would take forever someone to like build that it's so complicated. And I'm like, how do we recognize design. And I asked that in two parts, the first one was, I asked, why do you recognize design, want to understand what he means by design but also what methodology is using to recognize if something's actually is designed. And he said well if it's really complicated it's designed. And I followed up with, you know, if I had two light bulbs, one that took one step to screw into a hole. Everyone takes 1000 steps to screw into a hole, but they both make the same light they both cost the same, which of the two light bulbs was better designed. And he's like well, obviously the first one that only takes one step is like yeah because it's more simple. What we value in designing and engineering is simplicity. I can put an extra engine in this car and get more or less the same horse power makes it up so it gets the same horse power. So why would I add an entirely different extra moving part to a vehicle if I can get away with the same horse power with just one engine. You know, like we always strive for simplicity and things. Simplicity is the hallmark of design, not complexity. He's like, well, it's simple. It looks simple to God. I'm like you have an extra nipple you don't need your body has extra parts, but I didn't want to do on that a little bit more. Instead I said, you know how do I would you like to know how I recognize design.  I said I recognize design by comparing them to things that aren't designed. And so I said like if I gave you a smartphone watch and a rock. I would say I can compare these two things and see that there's actually manufacturing logos on one. And like components that come from different areas whereas this rock seems to be like one homogenous thing that's created in nature that we can like and verify where it even came from maybe even fit it back into its original location, whereas all these parts are desperately processed from many, many different sources, like I can. I can go to the factories where these things are made and he's like yeah, because rocks aren't designed and smart watches are designed, but my follow up was that is well if you believe this whole universe was created and designed. You don't have a frame of reference for something that's not designed. It's like the rock should have been designed and that in that story. You're looking at everything you're looking at everything and saying everything's designed but you don't have a frame of reference for what something that isn't designed is it's like you went into your clothing drawer and pulled out a shirt and said this is a sock. By the way, I'm very confident that this is a sock, even though you're pointing at a shirt. By the way, I don't know what things that aren't socks look like. You know, I don't have a frame of reference is like, well, then you don't you can't claim that things are one way or the other way. You know what's an example of something is and what something isn't is right. And when he, when he understood that he's like well, God is my thing that isn't designed or created. And I'm like, well, do you have a way to test God is like no I can't test God that's good for you. Well, until then, you can see why someone who is from my perspective, trying to understand what you mean when you claim things are the case, why I can struggle with intellectual honesty, recognizing that you may not necessarily have a frame of reference to make the claims validated or justified. He's like no that makes sense. I again I don't know everything. I'm like that's fine. That's totally fine. I'm like that I just generally say I don't know and that's generally what atheism is like, I don't have enough information to be convinced that this belief is true. No, believe it, nor do I know if it's true, but my atheism is fueled by my agnosticism and we had talked about those definitions before. The coconut is natural. But the two halves of a coconut that you used to make the sounds of a horse clopping, they're designed. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And you know the weird thing is, I am willing to say that I don't identify as an atheist, I don't know if that's fair for everybody else on the show. An atheist is just a characteristic of a state of being that I'm in right now. It's a way to describe where I'm at, but I don't have any. I don't identify with it with like, like, any more than just saying like, no, it's my default state until one of these religions come along and actually convinced me that their God is true. Until then, I have abandoned it, but I'm in a position where no one's making a good argument. I'm not telling you guys you're wrong. I'm just saying I don't believe you. You're not match your burden of proof. Right. I've had misgivings for for many years about the word atheist because of course, being demonized means that we have even less respect in the community than estate agents, for example, or politicians. But so if there was a word lack theism, I'd go for that.  That would be my preferred label. Yeah, it's a shame because like a lot of the terms that I follow now that best describe me all deal with not doing something that's very popular by other people, right? And it's when you say you're an atheist who doesn't tell you anything else about you other than a lack of belief, but it doesn't say about the things that you do believe in. And I feel like it puts unnecessary focus on the lack of a belief in a particular religious claim, then it does the fact that everybody doesn't believe 99.9% of most God believes that are out there. So like, why are we making that one distinction on that one extra God that most people believe in, right? And he, the guy was carpooling with was also very honest with like, you know, listen, when you love people are versus like, I understand that I don't believe in Thor, Joe the witness was I'm like you only believe I only believe in one more God than you like I get that. It doesn't sound like he's coming to term he also understands, based on my where I was born my geopolitical location will dictate what I believe and I understand that I'm teaching my daughter, XYZ, so that she can have a good path forward. Like I understand that could be fundamental to he's just, he's asking good questions, but I don't my end goal is not for him to become an atheist. My end goal for most Christians in fact is not to become an atheist is just for them to tolerate the fact that atheism does exist, and that it's an okay state to be in and to understand what it actually is. And they don't have to celebrate it. They don't have to come to our meetings or conventions, but they can at least not dictate how society operates in a way that affects demonizes. Yeah, that would be one of them to yeah or you know, like, don't chastise don't rule policies that are against, you know what we're trying to do. So I put a three point list into the chat that we had on the way here. Okay, but I wanted.  And I want them to keep their faith based opinions out of government. There's an interesting example of this in my local my global atheist news again because in Australia. They don't have many problems I'm hoping that you're going to talk with me about this later on. They don't have many problems but one they have is that in the state of Victoria they have banned opening their council meetings with prayers. So what they do instead is they have a minute silence when they individually think about whatever they want you know if it's if it's a belief system, they can do that in their heads.  That's what that means for its silent. Okay, so what happened in this particular meeting was one of the counselors grabbed the silence and started praying loudly. He was, he was a soundly told off. Good. Good. The other things that I so I want I don't want them to influence government with their faith based ideas on them to keep their faith based ideas out of government. That's, that's one of the main things I'm saying I would love to have that will I don't mind having a religious president or religious prime minister, but I don't want their religion to affect my life like right now we have a religious president, but he's not making policies. As far as I'm worried he's not making policy that are directly saying you need to go to Catholic school. And we saw. Yeah, interesting me on the prime minister front our current prime minister is a Hindu. That's awesome. So, so we've got four things that we want with our end goals. Don't demonize this. Yes. Don't, don't govern us with your belief system. Don't tell our children nonsense. And the final one is you said this is a three point list. Yeah, I've added one. It was. Don't demonize this is going to be. Yeah, yeah, play nice. I like I can't. Surely you know that. But the final one is great. Yeah. Probably the best it is. Keep your noses out of our genitalia. I love that. I can throw out one reason why I love this so much. I came to an understanding over like the last couple of weeks after our conversations and had some time to think about this that there. The two categories in the world are biological male or biological female. Like it is, you're going to fall into one of those two categories. However, there is also a very valid category in between of a cornucopia of different kinds of intersex people by intersex. I mean, people who have like ambiguous genitalia to people who are phenotypically male, but they were born and their, their in birth made twins or like they became a twin. And then they refused again. And so they are phenotypically male, but they're hybrids, where maybe they're pancreas or their liver has female chromosomes in it but they are, they look male, but parts of their body, because they infuse they fuse from like another embryo that it's so crazy, how there's so much different forms of humanity. So in between the these this two seemingly or a parent binary states, there is just as much of a valid spectrum, if you will, of intersex people in between. And what's really cool is that is that category has been inundated with a lot of pestering from religious points of views from saying, Oh, your genitalia looks male enough but there's something wrong with it. It's not male enough, non consensually, or, or let's modify this people put them on hormone therapy, so they can appear as what a female should look like, and it's caused the people who are on these more. They were just caught in between what is essentially just nature to abide by standards of what a man or a woman should be from a physicality point of view, and the kids never asked for that. We're at a point now where some of those kids can like, and this America for file lawsuits, but I feel like if we were to just come to a better understanding of like the science of the empathy, as we were talking about in previous shows, and recognize that, you know, on an individual we can like assess where someone's coming from, and recognize that these differences aren't necessarily harmful, and recognize that it could just be an accepted category of its own and everything falls into the, the, the, the first models that we said everything for. I would love to see something like that but yeah keep their noses out of the people's genitalia. It's okay if someone has like an extra finger, like don't amputate that off it's okay it's not going to be big deal.  I don't really crazy think stories that are out there, but largely involving genitalia and I just be more accepting if we had less of a pure, puritanical point of view on these things and just let people be who they are. What do you think, John Richards, I'm bursting again. Talk to me talks. So you mentioned the six finger syndrome, do you know where that is most common is a place in. It's in the Mennonites, because they marry their cousins, they're not allowed to out breed. So, yeah, it's, it's typically small pockets of people who don't go out and marry more people and bring more people into the genetic they get more. The other thing, the other thing you mentioned is Chimeras where one twin is absorbed few cells of the other, and he's actually partly one person and partly another person but made in the shape of one person. And the incidence of that, there's only ever been 100 confirmed cases in humans. So, in my opinion, the lengths that it takes to confirm a case doesn't necessarily represent the total number of potential cases that could be out there. In my opinion, still, that's still 100 value. That's still 100 of people of value. And it's still part of, in my mind, a continuum of a variety of different kinds of stories of people who are caught in between. And I wouldn't say those Chimeras should go through surgery to remove the body parts that don't have the proper chromosomal patterns and be replaced with something that's more apparent for or proper for their sexual. It's fine. If you're intersex that's totally cool. I'd say let that just be it's a part of what a beautiful understanding of humanity is and recognize that that's a natural part of nature. And I would never say I would say this to I would never say that it's a the that what's in between is proportional to what's on the edge. It's clear to me that most people find I know it's clear to me that most people fit in the category of male and female, but I do think that there is a continuum or spectrum in between. And we should recognize that the system of sex, at least from my point of view, is not one or the other but actually aspects of both in a much more nuanced model. Nobody has any authority to say that you're acceptable and you're not. It's ridiculous. I love that. Yeah, exactly. Not even God. Sorry for taking on so long. What any final thoughts before we should wrap up the show. Nice. Very cool. Larry. Excellent. Oh, what about you time.  That's all there is to it. Oh, that's bad. This program does not condone.    Anyway, my my content can be found at digital free thought.com. Be sure to click on the blog button when you get there for a radio show archives, atheists, songs and many articles on the subject. My YouTube channel handle is out at doubter five. And you can find my book atheism. What's it all about on Amazon. If you're having trouble leaving religious beliefs behind and a lot of people do, you can get help from recovering from religion.org. Remember, everybody is going to somebody else's hell. The time to worry about it is when they prove that heavens and hells and souls are real. Until then, don't sweat it. Enjoy your life. And we'll see you next Wednesday night at seven o'clock here on W O Zio radio. Thank you everybody.


What is up everybody, Jason here for Jazby's CaseRace.com We just sold out 2023 Panini Limited Football, seven box half case break, PYT number three guys. Fresh Caseola for this two guys. Now the second house in the store, it's also 15% off. And of course there was the R&B for the teams there and the names there. One, two, three for the left side, four, five, six for the right side guys. Four, one, two, three, four, five, six. These boxes here will be for the next break, guys. All right, here we go. Luke Musgrove, our Musgrave star. 299. Green Bay, going to Jason O'Connell. Pacheco to 49 for the Chiefs, that's part of the R&B. 16, it's about six is Jeff. Then we have Ataji Spears for the Titans to 75. Also part of the R&B. 31, spot one, that's gonna go to Nicole. And Zae Flowers, nice little patch autograph there. 32 out of 199, that's gonna go to the Ravens and Rich. There you go, first box. In the books. Mike Kiseki, 299. Then Cowboys Doucevon, Joe with that one. Be sure it's going to Karen. Wow, look at that, Zach Thomas. Five out of 10 for the Dolphins. I should really like these cards, these cards are awesome. Dolphins, that's going to the 10 team R&B. Five out of 10, five is Matthew Parsons. Pretty sweet. And then we got a Jaren Hall, beautiful patch autograph. 24 to 25 for the Minnesota Vikings, going to Douglas. Two boxes down. And you pick it for the Steelers. And a nice three color patch, Mike Evans. Buck's part of the 10 team R&B, 41. One is going to go to Nicole again. And we got Daren Woodson for the Cowboys. 88 out of 99, Cowboys going to Joe. Let me have another thick patch. Eden O'Connell to 75, patch autograph there for the Raiders. 10 team R&B, 45 out of 75. Another one for the spot five and Matthew Parsons. A lot of live hits so far. Last break in number two, separate case obviously but had a lot of redemptions. Jalen O'Connell to 99, in game changers, Vaughn Miller. Broncos going to Steve. And then of course Dolphins, 10 team R&B, 29. Nine is Nicole. And Zach Evans to 199 for the Rams. 10 team R&B, Rams, 103. Threes, Madel. Jonathan Mingo, little patch autograph to 99. Panther's going to Tim, eight out of 99. Alrighty, three more to go. That's so funny, dude. Things just get me all the time. I think I'm getting the patch, but it's always the auto. Young Ho Koo for the Falcons going to Tim. And then a nice patch, Tank Bigsby. Three out of 75. That's for the Jagwars, 10 team R&B guys. Three, going to Madel. And we have 49ers, Brent Jones, 20 out of 99. 49ers, Matthew Parsons. Marvin Mims out of 75, two color patch and autograph. Denver Broncos, going to Steve. Two more boxes. Dosmas, Josh Jacobs for the Raiders. Raiders, 10 team R&B, 28. Eight is Jeff Henn, and then Saints, where I like Brad, with that one. Jake Heiner, Kendra Miller to 99, another one there for the Saints, then a Brad. Harrison Bucker to 199 for the Chiefs, 10 team R&B, 12. Spot two is Matthew Parsons. All right guys, down to the last box here. Good luck everybody. The second half is in the store. Remember, if we don't get a booklet here guys, that means the booklet could be hiding in the second half. I don't think we got one. We got a Michael Wilson to 35, nice two color patch. Cardinals win a Dominic. And how about a one of one, Sam Hubbard. NFL players tag. Bangles going to Rich. Uno de uno. You go, very nice set right there for you. And Tim with the Falcons, young Hoku. And the last one here is a Jake Moody to 199. 49ers, kind of Matthew Parsons. All righty guys. Well, like I said, no booklet here, but some really nice hits though as well. R&B got some nice stuff, couple nice live hits. No redemptions actually, shockingly. One-on-one there. A lot of nice names, a lot of nice hits again. The second half is still in the store though guys. Remember 15% off, no booklet though. So maybe it could be hiding some big hits over there as well guys. Appreciate everybody. Thank you for getting in. Jaspy's casebricks.com, guys, thank you. Oh, actually, sorry. There's gonna be some non-numbered based. Let's randomize that, I forgot. Roll it. Three and a four, seven. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Seven, seven. Nicole, have a nice little R&B. You're gonna get all the non-numbered based stuff. Thanks guys.


Thank you very much to both of you for presenting two different views, a robotic future vision for exploration in the solar system and beyond, and the things that we need to consider as humans, preparing to go out for human spaceflight. We have just a few minutes before our next break, and so I'll ask you maybe one or two quick questions, and I would love to also get a question from the audience, so be mulling over what you'd like to ask these two. The first is, where are the synergies that we can find between robotic spaceflight and human spaceflight? How do you both see these as two complementary features of the future of space exploration? Is it a vision like Neil Stevenson and Seven Eves, where it's swarms of robots assisting for an exploration mission? Are they going to be the vanguards, the scouts going out, again, as they already have, before we get there? How do we combine the two? I think it's both of the above, as we kind of intimated before, that robotics are the precursors. I mean, we did the same thing with Apollo, with Ranger and Surveyor. We're doing the same thing on Mars, and if we ever go out to the outer planets, we're doing those things now. So they're the precursors, but they're also the enablers when you do have humans there. I mean, look at the robotic capability we put on the space station. I mean, that's enabling more than we could do with the astronauts. So it is absolutely a precursor, as well as an enabler when we're there, and that's how we look at it. And we've got to be nice to them, too.  That always turns out bad. And we see from science fiction, maltreatment of robot populations or AI populations does come back to bite us in the future. So, yes, I think there's an importance, and one of our researchers here at the Media Lab, Kate Darling, thinks really thoughtfully about ethics around robots and human-robot interaction, as well. What would you each say are the grand milestones that are in your near future for robotic space play and for human space play? Grand visions. Oh, gosh. So what I, it's interesting. So what I'm excited about right now is point-to-point transportation. It seems not as grand as like going out and exploring the far reaches, but it's something we haven't mastered yet. We don't have a clear path that we're gonna get there, and I think that's gonna be really game-changing. It's when you can get anywhere in the world in less than an hour. Because it's part of the game of bringing the world together. It's a lot easier to marry someone from a different continent if you could just fly home for Christmas in less than an hour. It makes it easier for us to become a small planet. But I do have to say, I will do the pitch for my retirement cruise to Saturn. So whenever I talk at schools, I'm always like, you guys, you've gotta study hard because we do not have this technology and I need to go to Saturn. So work on that, would you? Get to the Cassini team and yeah, I can tell you about that. How about yourself? I mean, I was breaking into two things. One grand vision for us at JPL, frankly, is understanding our Earth. And we have a lot of spacecraft that are looking back and understanding carbon cycle and water cycle and helping us maintain this fragile environment that we live in. And so that's certainly just, it drives many of our folks to really have an impact in that arena, number one. And number two is as we go out into the solar system and look beyond, it's like, is there life or the conditions for life? And that's the big question that started driving us 60 years ago. And again, the water that's out there and the excitement that that generates and understanding that vision and we have this question, are we, will we find evidence or the potential for life in the solar system or with our exoplanet work outside the solar system and how will that play out? Fantastic answers from both of you. Can you give me a crisp example of a lesson that was learned from one of your say prior test flights at Virgin Galactic or Mars Curiosity or the work from Mars 2020 that has shaped or influenced your next step say for Europa Clipper or Europa Lander or where you guys will go next with Virgin Galactic. Is there a lesson from these precursor years of exploration and development that you are thinking has shaped where we're going next? I would say our key lesson is going out beyond the earth is just hard. And I'll use the Marco spacecraft as a small example. Our two little CubeSats that flew out to Mars, but frankly they required tons of care and feeding to get them there. Just because first time we've done this, components were kind of semi-commercial and things were happening we didn't understand or you try to drill into the planet. Not going like we thought. So you have the sci-fi which kind of makes it look easy to do this, but the reality is that it takes a lot of hard engineering and science and just stick to it and figure it out. Incredibly rigorous. You can't forget that. And every mission is, it's not like the last one. Yeah, no, I have to say the same thing. It's, space is hard. I mean when we started in 2005, we thought we'd be flying in like 2007. And we did our first face light in 2018. So there's a lot of challenges, there's a lot of setbacks. And really the take home is like, this is a marathon, not a sprint. You gotta be willing to pick yourself up, fall down seven times, get up eight and take care of each other. Because if you wanna, you gotta get it for the long haul. Great. Can I entertain a question or two from the audience? And we have our microphone box to pass around here. Rob. So yesterday, Walt Cunningham gave us some words of advice and said, you gotta stick your neck out. So how do we do that? How do we implement that and go forward, balance risk and take the advice from someone who's been there, been to the moon and, okay. I mean, I think on the commercial side, there is a bigger tolerance for risk. And so you see a lot of risk taking going on there. And I think that is really important for the development. I mean, it's important to understand how everyone involves knowing and appreciating like what we're doing and why. And that's what allows us to do that. I think it's more challenging in the government environment because you're beholden to other stakeholders like Congress and they, in my experience, I found Congress to be more risk averse than I am. And so I think that's where it takes the courage and to stand up and say, no, this is worth it. This is what we're gonna do. And I think our kind of philosophy is we want to take smart risks because, again, we're generally doing things that no one has done. And so trying to figure out, okay, how do we do this? It is a risk. You look at the sky crane with curiosity. That's crazy. And yet we figured out this is the only way you can do it. Let's take the risk. We've got to do this. And so it's about taking smart risks, but we have no issue with sticking our neck out. It's just let's do it smartly and try to make sure that we have a good chance of success. And I think both your institutions have this reputation now for sticking your neck out and really pushing incredibly innovative robotic space flight, the scouts for the solar system and our human understanding of so many of the different planets in our near neighborhood and the ability to say we really are going to push back out to get humans flying in space, whether it's space tourism or beyond. One last question, and then we'll prepare for the break. In the back, I saw a hand chewed up. You've got to tie them up. Time to see. Luckily, our missions are under two hours, so. Got to hold it together for two hours. That's not to say you can't have any kind of emergency in that timeframe, but it's not as dramatic as that, but that is what I'm interested in. That is what, because I do, I want to go for longer missions. I want to get us to the moon. I want us to get to Mars. I want us to live in an open space. And that's what I was saying when we have to raise the bar on ourselves, our own growth and development and our growth of our team and the growth of our society. Because when you have 10,000 people living and working in space together, you can't afford for one person to have a breakdown like that because we're so vulnerable out there. One person could kill us all if they wanted to so easily when we're in space, because it's such a harsh environment. So we have to get better at this. We have to be more open. We have to be more honest. We have to learn to talk about things that are taboo. All our taboos, sex, death, suicide, these things are all those secrets that we hold that are killing us. And so until as a society we've evolved and we've learned to handle these things and be more responsible with our mental health and our culture, we're not gonna be ready. And so that's why I want us to start talking about these things in our culture because we're the pointy end of the arrow. We gotta figure these things out so that we don't have to resort to tying people to their space cots. Gotta come up with something better. Wonderful. And I'll give Larry a chance to close with any final thoughts as well on if this is what is captivating Virgin Galactic or thinking about the future and next steps to your question, what's on the mind of JPL? That's next. Well, again, I think as I said, it's really answering those hard science questions and that's the beauty of a scientific community that says how do we answer these questions? Again, I go back to Dr. Ting's presentation. We find out things when we go there and things that we didn't expect or understand and then we have to put those into our models. And so that's really what drives us every day is what's the next question we want to answer? Fantastic. Well, thank you both so much. Please give a round of applause to Larry and Leda.


Yeah, I came in halfway through free season and it was good to get back working with the boys and under the new boss, speaking with Carl himself and the football he was playing last year with Newcastle and speaking to him and the kind of role that he's been using me in higher up the pitch where I enjoy playing more and like you said can be a bit more creative as a player. It's been something that I've really enjoyed, all those reasons were really why I was happy to stay in the Red and Blacks for another year. Now I'm slowly getting back to full fitness and enjoying playing more and being involved more with the team so I'm just looking forward to when I'm able to contribute 100% and fully once my body's 100% where it needs to be. The boys have come in with a mindset of everything is possible this season for us and that's credit to the staff and the coaches who've implemented that in the dressing room and in the club again and I think that we find that this year there's a real belief that we can go in and win the title and really challenge for silverware.


That's what I'm talking about! Ooh, that's a good animation right there. Yo, this animation's fire. Hell, he thinks it's over? It's not over! C'mon, man!  So how did you not see this coming? I did not see this coming! What's up, everyone? Welcome back to realistic gaming. Junior's not here today, but look, I got some fire videos. Well, I think they're fire. I don't know if they're fire yet. But we got some Sonic EXC videos. It's been a while since we watched them, but I found some really good ones. So let's watch them real quick. This first one is from Cartoon Fight Night, and it's called Dark Sonic vs. Sonic EXC 3D Animation. Sonic the Hedgehog Movie. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the movie, but let's check it out. Let's go. That was really cool how you fit my name in my yard. Especially since you tried to shoot me. Well, it was kind of my fun. I asked him to make the race more fun, and he warned me to be careful what I wish for. Oh, what did you wish for, boy? I was looking forward to it, bro. Besides, I was bored in... Huh? Oh, what happened? Oh, everything's all red. What happened? There's probably a fire somewhere. I don't hear birch chirping or anything. You were saying? Who took over it? Oh! Everybody's dead! Sonic! Hey! Is that Amy? Get outta here! I'm not afraid. I'll always be by your side, no matter what! Outta here! Outta there! You're gonna get in the way, bro. You better start flying. There you go. Oh! That was my dearest... Don't you want to know why I look like you, and why I'm here? Nah. Put him down! Well, since you've asked so nicely... Or did he just crack it? I crack my neck all the time. Oh, no, he did. Oh, Tails! You should've left a little bit faster. You should've started flying.  His animation's fire. But did you not see this coming? Recurty, you why I let you live? I like to reward myself with... Pleasureful company. Super Sonic absorbs positive energy. Can't believe this! I absorb negative energy! And you're an ocean of energy! This is just a mere setback. I'll be back sooner or later to finish what I started. Oh, you won't be a part of this? No, you won't. Oh, please. We both know Sonic the Pagehog isn't a killer. That is why... Young man! Why does he always be around a car? He doesn't know about Sonic. Too bad I'm not Sonic. Sonic! I know of a way to revive all of our friends. You must serve... Imagine there'd be some real movies like this! Dragon Ball! Go look for a fighter named Goku. Use your portal ring to travel to Universe 7. Once you get the Dragon Balls, you can make any wish. I know exactly what to wish for. Thanks, Amy! Gotta go fast! Is he doing a Dragon Ball crossover? That's what I'm talking about, yo! Whoever made this video, good job, bro. But here we go. With the second video we have today, this is gonna be from Mr. Tokipi Lord. Oh, okay. And this video is called Ordinary Day in Green Hill Animation. Fee Mario. Okay, so let's see this one.  Like, subscribe. I actually wish they made Sonic 8 scene to, like, a real character in, like, the real games and the real show. And if they had them, like, in Super Smash Bros. too, that'd be awesome. But, as every time, hopefully you guys enjoyed it. Make sure you go like, comment, subscribe. Like, I said earlier, alright? Thank you very much, bro.


I want to talk about housing and housing affordability. There is a big problem that we have in the US. It's really a global problem, which is that homes are more expensive than they have ever been. And first time buyers in particular, young people entering the market are facing the toughest environment in over 50 years. And I think everyone kind of knows this anecdotally, but I want to take you on a little journey into some of the underlying reasons and then discuss how we can potentially solve for this. The average house in the US, the average home in the US today costs 4.3 times the average income. That compares to 1.9 times the average income in 1970 and it's the highest number since we have records. We have this data going back to 1946, that's 77 years. Houses are more expensive now than they have been in 77 years. If you live in San Francisco, like I do, it's even worse, most of the coastal cities, this number is significantly higher. So not just San Francisco, but places like Raleigh-Durham and Nashville and other cities have this problem. We also, in addition to home prices, now have the highest mortgage rates in over 20 years. The 30 effects rate mortgage, which is the traditional first time buyer product just topped 8% last week. We have a regressive tax policy that was enacted in 2018 that basically did away with the mortgage interest tax deduction for first time buyers. There's a little known fact that most first time buyers do not qualify for the mortgage tax deduction anymore. So what used to be support from the federal government via interest tax deduction is no longer available. We have student debt that's putting pressure on first time buyers. And as you all know, in October this month, after three years, student loan repayments have started to kick back in, putting again more pressure on budgets. And we have institutional buyers, basically Wall Street, buying about 25% of single family homes in the US and turning them into rentals for investor benefit. So in that environment, the ability for first time buyer to go out and graduate from renting into owning, even a starter home, a $200, $300,000 home has significantly decreased. We did a deep dive here in Raleigh-Durham, our launch market, and we looked at the win rate for the average first time buyer, which used to be roughly 15% in 2017 has gone down to 2% last year. So 50% of first time buyers get help from family. And these folks, quite frankly, don't need our help. What about the other half, right? What about the people who don't have generational wealth to help them buy homes? And then you look at the effect, home ownership has been regressive in the US for a number of years and we're stuck, right? We're stuck with a home ownership rate and a system that favors generational wealth and disproportionately disfavors minorities, recent immigrants. So why do I care? I spent 15 years as a CEO of a software company here, venture funded, selling a pricing engine to mortgage lenders. So I spent 15 years in the bowels of mortgage pricing, which is super exciting if you care about it. And one of the things I learned is that the system isn't really engineered to support first time buyers and there's really no incentives in the system to solve this problem. So I sold this company, moved on, started a new company, and we tried to sit down and said, why should we solve this problem? Why should we all care about ownership? Ownership is the single largest contributor to wealth and I'm not talking about independence and huge wealth. I'm talking about the nest egg of the average American is largely contained in their home. Homeowners have better access to schools, so there is in our educational system a progressive effect here where home ownership actually allows parents to have better access to schools which benefits their children. And we have crime rates, whether that's correlation or causation, you can argue and I'm happy to do that. Crime rates are lower in areas with higher home ownership and it's also part, a deeply personal part of the American dream. People like to own their four walls. So how do we solve this problem? It's a massive generational problem. We can solve it with socially conscious capital and the opportunity we think is somewhere around a million people per year, first time buyers who are entering the system who need help. So what we've challenged is the traditional choice between renting and buying and we've basically aided a path in the middle and in between that we call fractional ownership. So the ability for first time buyers to buy a home, not the whole home, but fractions of the home over time. We calling it buy your home brick by brick, zero debt, no surprises. So how does that work? Well, you can pick a house, any house on the market and we turn it into 10,000 bricks. Bricks are ownership shares or interests in that real estate. The customer buys 200 bricks on day one and then progressively buys 13 bricks every month and he pays rent on the bricks that they haven't bought. So looking at the single home here, I can own a fraction and I can rent a fraction but I have the perfect flexibility to decide how much I want to own, how much I want to rent. And the innovation here is that we can turn a brick into a security under an SEC exemption and a security becomes a tradable instrument that any individual can invest in. So what we've done here is we've created liquidity in an otherwise illiquid asset and we have bricks that are being bought by family members, circle of friends, the community, church, other folks who are interested in helping that individual. Bricks generate rental income, home price appreciation and therefore there's an incentive baked into the ownership and the investment in those bricks. So we're effectively creating a crowdfunding mechanism for purchases of single family homes in the United States. Thank you. Now, once an ONI has accumulated enough bricks, they can qualify for a traditional mortgage, buy out the remaining investors and own the home the traditional way. And what that does is it puts homeowners and investors on the same team, effectively having them jointly own the asset and that has a number of benefits, savings for the first time buyer and then return for the homeowner. Return, sorry, for the investor. So being on the same team means sharing the rewards and one of the things that we're very proud of is activating socially conscious capital in the markets where we started. So for example, we have a UNC professor who is funding homes for refugees in his community in Chapel Hill. We have other folks who have social mission and objectives around funding homes and funding bricks for individuals that they care about.  We're live in Raleigh Durham. We've had a large amount of traction early on. We're looking for capital to fund homes and if you want to join us in giving first time buyers an affordable path to home ownership, please take down my information, contact me. Happy to talk.