Efallai, Emmanuel Osirabee. Welcome to Brathod City, initial two-year contract signed. How does it feel to be here? It's great to find you get it over the line. It's been going on for quite a while now. I'm just delighted to be here signed, ready to go.   Yeah, it's been going on for nearly two weeks now, so just getting it done today, perfect. Now I'm excited, ready for the breezes and the rain to go. I guess coming in at a time as well where there have already been additions, so far there's been signings before, you're coming in where there seems to be a lot of activity going on. It's quite an exciting time for the club and you share that excitement coming in and adding to that. Yeah, for sure. I mean, as soon as I spoke with the gaffer and ran, I knew the project is something I wanted to be a part of. I mean, we both are aligned in the same goals and it's the perfect step for me and ready to kick on and do what we need to do. What are those goals? What was it with the conversations that drew you here? Promotion. I mean, what all winners, I mean, the gaffer we have, he's been at the top of the game, you know. Ryan is driven, the club is driven, the players are both here that have been kept and the ones that are coming in. Everyone is driven in the same goal and that's promotion. I mean, something that we know is more than achievable with this group and something that we know we'll do this season. You've obviously played here before on a couple of occasions. Does the impression you get from the club now when you mention the ambition that you've got from the top and from the gaffer, is that a different feeling to what you've had previously maybe before coming here and playing here where there is a clear pathway through now and there's a clear ambition and idea of what we want to go on and achieve. Yeah, I mean, playing here in the past is always very loud, it's good, the fans, they're loud, they impose themselves on the games and I feel like that's something I want to be a part of. Just get on the ball, do what I need to do and join allegiance with the gaffer, the teammates and push towards our ultimate goal here, that's it. You're the kind of person who thrives under that kind of an environment where the crowd are getting behind you and getting, you know, on top of you getting loud and really creating an atmosphere here in the state. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's big for me. I mean, the louder it is, the better it is for me.  Can't really take too much pressure, you've just got to get on with the game and do it, you know, and something that I'm looking forward to, yeah. Torch was a little bit about yourself for those who perhaps might not have seen too much about you, where have you been, what have you done and how would you describe yourself as a player? Yeah, I mean, I've been about, I've been close after club and I feel like I've got the stable club now and I'm a boxer, a boxman's footballer. I can also play out wide, I can play in a number of positions as I did last season but I mean like I'm focused to get my job done in the middle of the pitch this season and yeah, entertain. I mean, entertainment is my game, yeah, just get on the ball and entertain, yeah. Up in that will give you an impression with the supporters here, not only being entertaining and getting somebody who will impress these supporters, get them on the edge of their seats but that versatility as well and that willingness to play in a variety of different positions. Yeah, I mean, more so this season we'll be more focused on predominantly one or two max, you know, and just get my goals and assist and do what I need to do. I'm entertaining while doing that, so that's my aim, that's my focus and I mean the benefits brought me in the club and it's something that I'm excited for, I'm very excited to be here. You got a message, final message for those supporters who will be looking forward to seeing you out here very soon? Yeah, I mean, just be excited for this season because I feel like this is our year yet.


But let's first start with some places that you don't want to skimp on and you do need to spend money and that first one is advertising. I mean you don't have to go crazy spending thousands of dollars advertising for your league but this is where you probably don't want to skimp on what you spend. Be reasonable but you're going to have to spend some money on flyers, on some yard signs which are effective, some social media advertising.  So don't skimp on advertising because you need teams to sign up for your league in order for it to happen. Okay and another area we want to be careful on skimping is on your facility. You want to have a good facility for your league so that people have a good experience. I have a lot of people ask me can I run my three on three league outside? I don't have experience doing that I live in Minnesota and it would be pretty stupid to try to run a three on three basketball league outside in Minnesota. Too much work goes into planning it and scheduling and communicating with people and then if we had bad weather or something and we had to reschedule it or cancel and refund people that would be really frustrating and I don't want to deal with that. So we don't do anything outside I do know some people that's how they get started they have more affordable outdoor venues but eventually I would say you're just going to be able to offer a more consistent better product if you find a nice indoor facility and I do have a real story here about where maybe paying more for a nicer facility is worth it. So real quick story we had a league here in Minnesota that was at a high school it was a nice high school it's a little older and it wasn't a terrible facility but we're really having trouble getting the league to grow we were kind of stuck at like 60 some teams and you know for a couple of years we're like gosh if we don't get this to really grow are we going to just cancel this location and try to find a different location well that school district opened up a brand new school with a beautiful state-of-the-art facility but it was expensive and we thought well what if we take this league that's kind of just struggling and we we pay more money to move it to this beautiful facility and I don't remember if it was a year or two later but that league became our all-time biggest league we've ever had which is 181 teams people just love the facility so it is really worth spending a little bit of extra money to have that nice facility when you're looking at facilities depending on where you live and what the weather is like you might want to make sure they have air conditioning so that people aren't miserable if it's really hot for your 3 on 3 league make sure that you're having good lines three-point lines out of bounds lines you've got enough space and one way you can kind of maybe save a little bit on your facility price is to work with a co-promoter and I've talked about co-promoters in a lot of my other videos so I'm not going to go into that right now on what that is but that group might have a connection to that facility where they can get a better price on renting the facility and then you in turn pay them for their facility rental and maybe a little extra for a donation for their their help also when it comes to the facility cost schedule well meaning like when you're building your schedule and if you've got a couple open spaces in your schedule open courts put those at the beginning and the end of your schedule because then you don't need to pay a ref to come and be there the whole time they can come a little bit later or leave a little bit earlier and you're going to save some money on your staffing costs also the way you decide to schedule games you know how long our teams there you know is factoring into what you're spending on your facility so by that I mean what we do is teams play a 20 minute running time game there's five minutes in between before the next game starts I've seen people build their schedules where they might have 10 minutes in between which is they don't need that much time to get to their next court and now you're just paying that extra facility time where nothing's really happening so be smart about how you schedule also the way we do our leagues we don't have practices the teams just come and play games so we're not renting a facility for teams to practice okay another place where you can waste money or be smart and save some money is with your t-shirts now we provide t-shirts for every player in our league so first step with that is you're going to want to talk to a couple different shirt vendors don't just talk to one talk to a couple so that you can kind of negotiate what your price is going to be on your t-shirt I can tell you that it's pretty likely that you're going to get the best price per shirt if you just go with one color ink sometimes we do two colors and we spend a little bit more but if you're trying to save money just either go black ink or white ink depending up the shirts a light or dark color and that will be cheaper now a lot of times I talk to people and they want to do jerseys and I won't go super into detail on this but jerseys are going to be more expensive I know people want to do the reversible jerseys and just you know buy a bunch of them but we like t-shirts because they actually serve as advertising kids are not going to wear a basketball jersey to school or out and about but they're gonna wear their t-shirt I am actually a teacher and I've seen kids wear our three on three t-shirts on the first day of school and I love it because you know mom's are posting first day of school pictures on Facebook and I'm like there's our t-shirt so that's advertising and it's cheaper than jerseys but what we do do is we offer dry fit shirts for an upsell within the registration so if the team wants to pay a little bit more to get dry fit t-shirts a little bit nicer they pay a little bit more we make a little bit more so that's how we do that now we do just get one shirt per player we don't carry an inventory and I've seen people just mass order a bunch of shirts and now they've you know got all these shirts that they got a store and figure out how they're gonna use and it's a waste of money so I do teach this like how in my course how do you get one shirt per kid what if they miss the early bird date how do you get them a shirt later all that kind of stuff but we don't waste money buying more shirts than we're actually going to use and then another thing you can do to offset some of that shirt cost is sell sponsorships and then you can put you know the sponsor logos on the back of the t-shirt and we make thousands of dollars doing that sometimes we have sponsors that sponsor all of our leagues and all of our t-shirts get that and then we have some sponsors that just choose certain locations certain leagues that they want to sponsor okay excuse me let's move on to staff so that's going to be a big expense once you have your league up and running you've got a lot of people that you're gonna have to pay first and foremost though you should be the site director of your league if you're just getting started like you should be there making sure that your league is going well obviously as you scale this and maybe you're running several leagues on on the same day like we do then we train site directors and we have to pay them to go but when you first start nobody's gonna care more about your league than you so you should be the main person overseeing the league which we call a site director and you know you're not paying yourself hourly to be there now you'll need a ref for each basket and one way you could go with this to save money is see if you can find some volunteers I know when we first started we were able to find some friends and some teachers and coaches to volunteer and that works fine it's not the best because sometimes volunteers don't really care all that much and they don't necessarily do as good of a job but it is a way to get started without spending a ton of money sometimes our copromoting group that we're working with has volunteer so it's a high school program for example maybe the diversity team has to volunteer hours at our event and ref we would pay the copromoter money for their program but the players are actually volunteering and then the other way to approach getting refs is maybe you don't have certified refs the most expensive refs on all your courts maybe you know if you've got a six court facility maybe three or four of them are experienced more expensive certified refs and maybe two of them are high school kids that you're kind of training and then as a site director you're gonna kind of stay closer to the less experienced refs so that you can monitor them and help them and step in if needed you're also going to want a person who week one and week two is your check-in person when the teams show up and they pick up their shirts and they might have questions and things so the person that's greeting at your table one thing you could do is give them a little bit less of an hourly rate and then let them sell some concessions if you don't have a different concessions plan like maybe they're selling the waters and the Gatorades and the snacks at the check-in table and whatever their profit is they earn I had a couple nieces that did this for their own little entrepreneurial experience and they made a lot of money and I hardly paid them any hourly to be there and then they just did all the work with concessions we didn't actually keep any of the money they got to keep all the profit so it was a good experience for them another thing to keep in mind is if you're gonna allow coaches in your three-on-three league that will be expensive if you have to do background checks which you probably should if you're going to have coaches at your league probably you're not gonna pay coaches but or maybe you would but that would be expensive if you do so we don't have coaches in our leagues and so we don't have to pay for background checks okay another place where you're gonna have to spend some money is liability insurance so even if the facility doesn't require you to have liability insurance which I think is pretty standard now with most facilities but I would still get it to keep yourself covered or maybe if you are working with a co-promoting group who can rent the facility for you they might have the liability insurance that can name you as covered in the insurance and then you don't have to get liability insurance so you could you could save some money that way when you are looking for liability insurance shop around get a couple of different quotes and give really really low numbers on how many people you expect in your league okay you might be aiming for 50 teams and you know 200 kids or whatever but if you submit those numbers then your insurance is really gonna go up so give them a really really low number like I'm gonna have 10 teams of three kids or something and you're gonna get a better quote on your liability insurance and only say you're running one league it should cover you for 12 months and then the next year when you renew your liability insurance they're gonna ask you for your numbers the previous year to predict what your next liability insurance policy is gonna cost okay so just go really low on numbers some of the other things that when you're just getting started that you might have to spend money on you might need to create a logo or you might need some graphic design work done you know to make flyers and and help you with things that you might need in your social media or on your website so if you are able to do any of that work yourself do it yourself you could use Canva that's what I like to use Canva that could be a place you could create those graphics for yourself or if you would like to find a freelancer we use Upwork for a lot of things and you can find some pretty inexpensive opportunities with your logo creation or graphic design I actually do have somebody that I work with and he's a very very fair fairly price he does great work he's done a ton of logos for my students and graphic design so definitely reach out to me you can find me if you go to three on three hoops hub.com you can find a way to get in touch with me and I can help you get some of those graphics done for pretty reasonable price you don't want to spend too much on that okay another place where you have to spend money is on your website and I haven't done a lot of looking at this recently we used to use a website that cost oh it was maybe $600 a year or something but then I found Squarespace and I know there's lots of other ones out there I'm not necessarily here to promote Squarespace but it's less than $30 a month and again you could do it yourself build your own very simple website it's gonna slow you down if you have to do the work but if you're trying to save money learn how to make your own website or again find somebody on Upwork who can do that at a pretty reasonable price for you but you don't need to probably spend more than $30 a month on a website okay another thing that you have to look at is how you're gonna collect your registrations so again depending on what sports management tool you want to use you can shop around and we use sports engine we've been using it for decades I don't necessarily know that it's the best option it's just at this point it doesn't make sense for us to switch to something else but when you're looking to get this set up look at what their transaction fees are per registration typically they charge like I don't know $2 per transaction plus a little percentage of whatever the registration fee is so do the math and figure out like if you have 50 teams and your price for your league is X dollars how much are you gonna pay in transit transaction fees for those registrations okay so if you enjoyed these money-saving tips and you'd like to learn more from me about launching your own profitable three-on-three basketball league I'm here to help I'm here to help you I've been helping lots of people get their league started I would recommend that you register for one of my free 90 minute training sessions where I will teach you the seven steps to running your own three-on-three basketball league it'll be really well worth your time if you're just getting started you're gonna want to avoid some mistakes and and you know start off on the right foot right out of the gate or if you are running a three-on-three basketball league and you want to improve what you're doing you might want to take a look at our proven system that we've been using for 26 years so check out the information below this video to see how you can attend the next training session all right take care see you soon


Hello and welcome to another edition of Frankfully Forgotten Horror Movies, but before we get started, what are we drinking today? We're drinking Season of the Witch by Boc. Today we're going to be covering 1975's Race with the Devil. So the movie starts out, we get introduced to Frank and Roger. They're briskly leaving their dirt bike slash motorcycle dealership that they're running. They've got a brand new $36,000 RV, dolled up to the nines. Packed to the tits. Color TV. Oh yeah, they've got Color TV. They've got a microwave oven. They've got the whole nine yards. And wood paneling. Damn straight. So they leave town and they head off towards their first night that they're going to be camping out and they go into this remote area where they've got to cross over like a river and everything. They've got a couple of dirt bikes fastened to the back of the RV and they pull them off and they start kind of racing each other and war notes. They're all old and everything. They're trying to beat Peter Fonda. Wiping out into that lake. Yeah, that's what. So at night, they're all drinking. They're drinking all that bourbon and everything outside. And they're getting a little chummy too. And you get a real sense that they're like best friends. This big bonfire and then the distance, there's these people walking around the campfire chanting things, watching what's going on. They're kind of getting enamored with these naked women. They're taking their clothes off right away. He's like, give me that. Let me see. There's this woman that they lay down, lifts her up and then he takes a knife and stabs it right into her chest. They get freaked out at what they just saw. Right away, the girls come out calling them.  Quiet. The cult sees them. Right away starts chasing after them. They get into the RV and they get going. But the cult is like pretty close on their heels. Catches right up. Yeah, catches right up.  So they get out and start getting all these branches and start jamming them under the wheels. Meanwhile, the cult is getting pretty close. They're throwing rocks and smashing windows and they just in the nick of time they get the wheels out of that rut and they get out of there. And they go right to the sheriff who's played by RG Armstrong, Sarge. From evil speak. In evil speak, the sheriff's kind of a little dismissive of it. Kind of doesn't believe it, but he's also passing it off as a hippie cult. They're doing drugs up there now. They all got that white powder and they go up to that site to go look around and see what they can find, see if there's any evidence of somebody having been killed.  They're like, well, this must be what you saw these guys do. The sheriff tells the guys to go back to town, gather your wives and be on your way basically. If we find out anything, we'll let you know. Yeah, the two wives have found this note in the RV that was stuck on a shard of glass on the back window. And it's like a warning written in all these ruins in like weird language. So they go to the nearest library. The small town library all has this big section on witchcraft. Reoccult and everything, yeah. So they take out a couple of books and try to decipher this note. They're getting the back window fixed and this weird gas attendant guy is kind of, you can tell that he's dropping, close that back curtain. Yeah, like that's going to do anything. It's all paper thin. They decide what would better be on our way. So they mosey on and they stop at this RV park. The girls are in the pool and they're getting the sense that all these people are staring at them and they kind of are. They're like, yeah, blankly staring at them and they get this weird vibe and they go back to the RV and meet up with this other couple. They're like, oh, nice RV. Time to warm up the martinis. They go with this other couple to this country bar and it's hopping man. It's hopping and people having a great time, fights breaking out and everything. Happy again and kind of put the past behind them. They're walking back to the RV and you get the sense that they've seen something.  Freaking out and everyone's coming out of the RVs is like, well, no one heard? Yeah. No one heard this happen. Someone must have seen something and you kind of get the sense they kind of trust nobody at this point. You open up this compartment and all these snakes come out.  He grabs it. He's all throwing it around. They end up killing the snakes and they realize, okay, this cult is still after us. And they're really paranoid and they get to this general store. It happens to sell all these guns. Now they're armed and they're like, if they're going to get us, we're going to get them first. And that's where we're going to end the plot. So if you want to see how Race with the Devil ends, keep watching the movie because it really ramps up from there. Yeah, it does. So Race with the Devil was directed by Jack Sterrett. And he was also in the A-Team Night Rider and he was in a lot of like cycling movies. Motorcycle movies. Peter Fonda is in this too. Of course he was in the iconic Easy Rider and he was in Escape from LA too. And tons of racing movies of course in the 70s is what he's mostly known for. Lauren Oates is in this. He's in tons and tons of stuff. I'm going to mention Stripes for us 80s kids.  Lighten up, Francis. Loretta Swift is in this. She was in our good friend Chad's favorite show, MASH. She was Hot Lips Hula Hand. Lara Parker is in this and she was in the iconic TV show, Dark Shadow. The first thing you'll notice about this movie is the opening credits. Really grippy when it's got this really cool animated opening credits. Really cool creepy music. Before you even see one shot of the movie you're kind of already kind of invested in it. Just through the opening credits alone. And the pacing of this movie is actually fantastic really. And it sort of lets your guard down and it's slow to start. Meanders through the characters and you get to learn a lot about the relationship between everybody. When is everything going to start to pick up?  It's just skyrockets from there.   That's right. The characters in this movie are really good because you really do believe that they are all best friends. That time they spend in the beginning which you think maybe a little kind of like ah let's pick it up a bit.  Best friends fighting together with their wives against this cult. You care if one of them is in peril especially like in that scene with the snakes. You don't want anything to happen to anybody.  Because they spend the time to make you like them. Exactly. The dialogue in this movie I thought was really good because it is believable.  People don't say that. I bought into everything. Another thing I noticed is that the swearing is kept strategic.  Yeah which is kind of the way you would be doing that right. The acting for this movie is top notch. Peter Fonda war notes. Loretta Swit is great. Lara Parker is really good too right. But the girls are kind of kept a little more to the to the side. Which is too bad you know it's I don't know why they did that. But it's sort of harks to the time right. They really focus on the friendship between Frank and Roger. That's the central point of this movie. Yeah. Those two guys friendship was the reason why they kind of put the women on the sidelines a little bit. The women sort of acted as something that the men had to protect right. Yeah. So they had an extra stake in all of this. So it's a sign of the time. Yeah that's true. This movie does a really good job of making you not trust anybody except for the main four characters. After they encounter the cult and go to the town talking to the sheriff like you already start like okay who do I trust. Anyone and everyone could be part of this cult. But they all can't be. But some of them might be. Yeah. So you're always questioning everyone's motives which is really cool. But it also could just be the fact that these towns are simply unaccepting of outsiders too right. So it could just be that the people are sort of normal. They're not in a cult.  Yeah they don't want you there. The final act to this movie is fantastic.  Highway chase. Yeah. People jumping onto the RV. And guns shooting. People flying off all these great stunts. Driving off cliffs and bridges blowing up for no reason. It's just like do you need a reason? No you don't need a reason. Such a good job of building the suspense. It takes its time. It makes you paranoid of everything. And that's what helps build the suspense about everything. There's that moment where before they find the dog and they're walking up to the RV. You sense like something bad's gonna happen here. You just know it. Just the way they play it out. You know they can't be having this much of a good time. Exactly. Something has to wreck it. It has to be now. You don't know what it is till you see it. And of course this movie's made in the 70s. So it's like a bit of a commentary on hippies and cults. And all cults and hippies are bad. Yeah into drugs. Satan worshipers and everything. Like we joined the satanic cult. There's nothing like in the movies. Not at all.  Oranges and what not. I'm not seeing it.  Yeah. Not that there's anything wrong with that. No. No. No. I was expecting more. You know more than this. Hardly worth the 66 dollars and 60 cent monthly fee. Let's drink it home for free. Agreed. And this movie looks good too. It's got a lot of nice panoramic landscape shots. Like when they're dirt biking through the desert and stuff like that. It looks fantastic. The production value is great. Yeah. And the locations they chose are really good. The remote locations where you just feel isolated by the vastness of it almost. Exactly. So if you want a 70s movie that's going to keep you on the edge of your seat. Let your guard down a bit. You don't really know if something's going to happen.  Then check out 1975's Race with the Devil. It's a great combo of like horror and action and like highway drama. Yeah. Yeah. It's really got a lot of what you want. And until next time, keep drinking. Bye.


This retrospective comparative study investigated the effects of the lordotic angle of cages on sagittal alignment in patients who underwent one or two-level posterior lumbar interbody fusion, PLIF, including the L5-S1 level. The results revealed that clinical and radiological parameters were not different between the two groups. However, sagittal parameters did not improve postoperatively in either group. Additionally, the degree of anterior location of cages was positively correlated with the postoperative restoration of the segmental angle. Therefore, PLIF at the L5-S1 level should be used with caution as improvement in sagittal alignment did not occur. This article was authored by Jay Hwan Cho, Chang Ju Wong, Dong Lee, and others.


So this person has lost their job because of coronavirus and they're not sure if they're eligible for the government benefit. So I'm going to pretend to be from Centrelink and say that they are not eligible for the government, for the- And I just got away with a cheeky piss in the bottle. Fuck. Shit! Michael fell down! Michael fell down!  All right, here we go. I'm calling Adrian and I'm Sam from Centrelink. Hello. Hello, am I speaking with Adrian? Yes, you are. Hey, mate, I'm Sam. I'm from Centrelink and we're just doing the rounds and just calling a few people who have applied for the government benefit. Have you got a second at all? Yeah, sure. Great. So yeah, we're just calling to give you a bit of an update and it looks like that because you were working in the gaming industry, that you're not actually eligible for any benefits and only a rule has been passed very recently and you're part of a very unfortunate few. You actually have to pay for your application submission. So it's a cost of $300 of just some admin fees that Centrelink has to sort of, you know, process your application and all that sort of stuff. So unfortunately, you're not eligible due to the industry you're working in and you will be receiving a $300 bill for that, which I know is probably not something that you wanted to hear. Okay. So yeah, we'll be sending that through soon and you'll sort of have five business days to pay that and then that sort of jumps up to it doubles and a half. So it'll be up to $750 there, if you don't pay that within five business days. So I'm sorry, just to clarify with you. So I have to pay a $300, but that does that. So what does that, what am I paying $300 for? Do you understand what I'm sort of going to hand? Yeah, yeah, sure. So that just covers the admin fees, the processing fees. So when everyone submits an application, they, you know, someone on our end has to go through and do across the eyes and dot the T's, if you will. Yeah, yeah, I understand that. Yeah, so it's just... I'm just, no, you're, I'm not, I'm just trying to wrap my head around what you're telling me right now is what I'm trying to do. Yeah. I have to pay a $300 admin fee. Yeah. So does that mean I still get the benefit that I've applied for or I'm not getting that? Is that what you're saying? Well, because of the industry that you're in and you were working in a gaming room, is that correct? Yeah. So because it's gambling, anyone in the gaming industry is not eligible for any sort of benefits at all. And it's sort of, to be honest, it's a bit frowned upon. The gaming industry is, yeah, it's, it's, it's quite difficult to receive any benefits at all just because the gaming community sort of like ruins lives. So it's, it's, yeah, it's debatable, but yeah, OK. Yeah. So it's sort of, I know, I know it would be hard to hear right now, but yeah, it's, I've just been calling people all day and just letting them know, like, yeah, you're sorry. You're not. Well, I had to pay the gaming ruins lives, but yeah, anyway, I don't want to get to an owner. Well, people do people do get addicted to gambling. And so some people get addicted to alcohol, mate. But anyway, I don't want to. Yeah.  Is that what you're telling me? So I'm paying three hundred dollars to not receive a benefit. Well, you're telling me. Well, the three hundred dollars is for the application submission that that you sent through. And yeah, unfortunately, your application was denied. So yeah, you won't be receiving any benefits whatsoever. So I've applied for a benefit that I'm not eligible to receive. And I have to pay a three hundred dollar fee to apply for it and pay within five business days. Otherwise, I have to pay three hundred dollars within five business days to receive no benefit at all. Well, you're telling me. Yeah, well, it's not to receive no benefit, but it's separate to the the benefit itself. So you're you're having to pay three hundred dollars because you're because of the application that you submitted. And it says that it says that on the very fine print at the bottom of the website on my gov there, it says, actually, they're you are susceptible to admin fees and you're adding to the problem. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, you know, the processing fee. So if you were eligible, yeah, it would be OK. But, you know, like I said, the gaming industry, it's a bit of a it's a bit of a gray area. And well, it's a bit of a dark area. I understand you're doing your job. I'm not I'm not arguing with I'm just I'm sorry. Who was speaking to Sam and who are you calling from? Like, who am I actually talking to right now? I'm very sorry. I'm just I'm trying to wrap my head around what's going on right now. Totally from where? Totally understand. I'm calling on behalf of Centrelink. So I'll work at one of the things I'm saying. Yes, exactly. OK. And so you're saying my application has been denied. Yeah. And I have to pay a three hundred dollar admin fee within five days of receiving the bill. That is correct. And you should receive the bill shortly after a conversation is terminated. And how will I be receiving that bill? Just by mail or no, that'll be via email. So yeah, by email. Yes, correct. And that's purely because I'm working in a gaming industry. Well, your application was denied because of your job. You know, look at it sort of it makes sense because you're sort of contributing to more financial loss for a lot of people. So, you know, the government sort of comes down hard on anyone who works in the gaming industry exclusively. So yeah, the application was denied because of that. And then also just the processing fee of your application took a little while. So that that's where the three hundred dollars admin fee comes in. Yeah, I'm very confused. OK. Yeah. And like, obviously, I know it's a, you know, not a phone. It's not it's not an easy phone call for either of us. But at the end of the day, you're working in industry that is a quiet poisonous and takes money from innocent people. So what we are you saying is to me right now? Well, it's are you serious? It's it's sort of what we've been what we've been instructed to say. Look, I've had I've had that I work in a poisonous industry that's taking money from innocent people. OK, well, that's more of a personal opinion. And I've got friends who are addicted to you've said that. That's literally what you just told me. Look, look, I've I've got friends and family who have gambling problems. OK. And and I'm personally responsible for that. Well, look, you work in an industry that does this sort of thing to people. You know what I mean? So it's yeah, I'm sorry. You are responsible. It's hearsay. I'm responsible for that. No, everyone who contributes to the industry is contributing to the problem as far as I'm concerned. Well, that's this is a pretty unprofessional phone call I'm having right now with all due respect, Sam. I'm going to hang up now.  It's a prank call. OK, your friend says your friend has set you up. You're actually on the Marty and Michael podcast. And you have not your application has not been denied.  Sorry to do it, dude. So to stress you out, we're just trying. You haven't stressed me out. Oh, it's just a very angry phone call. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I heard you typing. You were typing away at the conversation recording stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah.  Professional.  Yeah, yeah.  Yeah, no worries, mate. Lovely to meet you. Good luck with everything. I think you're good luck to you guys. No worries. Awesome. Thanks, mate. See you later. Next week, we'll be smoking shards of meth. Well, stay tuned for that. And don't forget that we. Well, more simply, we are the best. Well, the best. We're the best. We're the best. We're the best. We're the best. We're the best. We're the best.


Well, welcome back. We're here in the gallery where the gold exhibition is displayed and congratulations on a wonderful exhibition and a fabulous film as well, so generous with information and the collection items. What we're going to do is begin by asking you to say a little about yourselves and your role here at the British Library, and then we can talk a bit about the genesis of the show and what you've learned from putting it together. So why don't we start? I know you've just introduced yourselves through the film, but once again, Eleanor, can you begin and say a bit about your job here at the BL? Thanks, Alex. I'm Eleanor Jackson and I'm Curator of Illuminated Manuscripts in the Western Heritage Collections here at the British Library, and I'm one of the co-curators on the Gold Exhibition. Thanks. I'm Kathleen. I'm Kathleen Doyle. I'm the lead curator of illuminated manuscripts in the Western Heritage Collection, which means that we look after the pictures in them, so a bit of a fortunate task. Coming from Western Europe, so in Latin and Romance languages and in Greek. I'm Annabel Gallup. I'm the lead curator for Southeast Asia in the Asian and African collections in the British Library, but I'm really here. One of my roles as curator, co-curator of this exhibition, is to gather together the expertise of all my amazing colleagues in Asian and African collections who have all contributed to this exhibition. One of the great things about the film that we've just seen is it's really revealed to us how many contributors there have been. We've heard from a lot of your colleagues. I'm sure there are many more as well. My first question for you really, and maybe Eleanor, you can take this one, is about the genesis of the show. How did this show come about? It's quite an unusual venture, I think, for the British Library to draw together material from such a large span of time in so many different languages and cultures, and it's fascinating to see them all brought together. So can you tell us a little bit about how it came about? Yeah, so we wanted to put on an exhibition about gold because it is such a consistent feature of bookmaking traditions around the world, not only consistent in the techniques that were used to apply it, but also in the meanings that people used it to express, especially meanings of value. You know, books are a medium of communication and nothing communicates value like gold. So we wanted to do this exhibition to explore those connections through some of our most beautiful and gorgeous manuscripts. Celebrate that. And I mean, it's not the first show to open at the British Library since all of the lockdowns and privations of the pandemic, but one of the things going around the exhibition, and I'm sure has really come across to people watching this from the film, is just how kind of shimmering and kinetic and wondrous it is. I mean, it's like an exhibition of things that can't really be digitized. And I wonder how did you choose the items for display? I mean, presumably a lot of the heavy lifting of putting this show together was done when you were all working far from the British Library in your own homes with variable personal Wi-Fi and so forth. So can you say a bit about how did you choose the items and what led to the groupings that you have here? Who would like to answer that? Sorry, Annabelle, why don't you? Well, yes, as you said, well, the work had started before lockdown, but it was and as soon as we were allowed back into the British Library, we came in and to start looking at the actual manuscripts themselves. But of course, there were restrictions because of the pandemic. And so one thing we couldn't do, which we had thought would be essential for any exhibition is to look at things together. So mostly we were looking at things individually and trying to think, is this good enough? Because this is an exhibition of stars. Everything that you see is a star in its own right. But it's really, we've actually learned so much. It's only here in the gallery, as we put things out, we suddenly thought, oh my goodness, look at the Golden Haggadah next to the Queen Mary Salter. They work so well together. And for example, in the, we especially, Ellie had especially chosen the seal of the Emperor Baldwin, 13th century Roman Emperor. And his seal is actually of gold. And it was only when we installed it in the case, we realized that just above it, we'd also shown two commissions issued by the last King of Myanmar, King of Burma, Tebor, with his own royal seal, also stamped in gold. So there were all sorts of synergies, which actually hadn't struck us until the exhibition came together in the gallery. And that's one of the most exciting things that I think we've all found. Yeah, I mean, I wonder if it sets a kind of new kind of precedent for working together across the library as well. I mean, the one of the really extraordinary things about this show. And I wonder how obvious it will be to visitors going around is that 100% of the items on display in this exhibition are parts are in the British Library's own collections. I mean, from it's a very, very broad collection here at the British Library. There's no doubt about it. And yeah, I mean, there aren't that many collections, I suppose, in the world that could have generated this. And yeah, yeah, I think as I was saying, that was sort of result of working during lockdown, because we had initially thought that we would like to have some loans. But you can't ask for something you haven't seen. And it was, yeah. But it's, I think we're all a bit surprised at how well things work together. And one of the comments that we had at our non virtual opening last week, that so many people came up and said that the juxtapositions are really fascinating. As you comment, like, well, we're here. It's amazing. If I can be afforded a favorite case, but each of these manuscripts from different traditions in different languages, different time periods, and all of a sudden you see them together. And it's not just the wow factor, but I think other more subtle themes start to start to emerge. And it is an exhibition that we could have done, you know, three times over, because we have so many incredible manuscripts in our collection. And we started out with a long list that, you know, it probably was three times the length of what we have, if not more. And so it was a lot of work to hone it down to the 50 objects we have on display. And partly it was to do with balancing items from different cultures, different traditions, languages, et cetera. And partly to do with choosing objects that would complement each other nicely, both visually and thematically. You can imagine the spreadsheets. I can imagine, I can imagine spreadsheets. But the other thing that I can imagine, and I experienced, you know, just teaching online throughout the pandemic was that no matter how wonderful your screen is, and no matter how brilliant the digital images that you have at your disposal, it, you know, everything is screen size, right? So one of the things when you're planning an exhibition, it's so easy to forget, even if you know perfectly well how big something is in real life. And one of the things that I think is so fascinating about this exhibition, isn't just the chronological scale and the range of languages, but the scale that we see, which ranges from really very tiny or innate little books that are like jewellery all the way through to a manuscript that unfortunately is off camera, but it's, you know, it's taller than me. Which, yeah, I mean, did that, was that presumably one of the things that you also wanted to put across was the incredible range of objects that that are used with with kind of golden embellishment? Yes, absolutely. And I mean, you brought up the subject of how things look different on screen. And of course, gold is one thing that is classically incredibly difficult to digitize. You know, the library has done a huge amount of work in digitizing manuscripts. And I think most of the items in this exhibition are digitized and available to view online, but you just don't get a sense of the gold in images. You know, you have to see them in person and to see the way the light moves on them. That's something that the only really work in person. Yeah, the multi-dimensionality. Well, actually, I do think that they work in the film. I think you could see that the moving camera actually is capable of transmitting, I think, surface textures and glitter. But the other thing, too, is that until electrification, all of the gold, you could see it by daylight or moonlight, I suppose, but also by by flickering candlelight. And I think that, you know, some things get flattened out with with light bulbs as well. So the exhibition, you mentioned that it opened a week ago. It's been open for a week now. I mean, Kathleen, can you say a little bit about the initial response to the show? What have people been making of it? I think we're all so pleased, aren't we, because people have seen what we hoped they would see. We've had some really wonderful reviews. Some of the journalists we had stayed with us and just stayed and talked and looked at things. But I think we've had several four and five star reviews. And I hope that other people can come as well and see them in person because it does, I think it causes many people to think. We have some of the most famous things in the collection, as you will have seen. But sometimes next to something that's never been shown before is very little studied. And so even if you're an expert in one type of book, you're going to see something that will surprise you. Yeah, I certainly did. I mean, the juxtaposition just in the case behind us, I think there's a manuscript in Greek. There's two in Latin and there's one in Hebrew. And I mean, those are language groupings that are so often estranged in library catalogs, aren't they? So yeah, it's really wonderful that it's had such a warm response. And I'm sure we'll say this again, but it's open until the 2nd of October. So everyone watching them, have an opportunity. I hope to come in and see it for yourselves. So I think we're hoping to be able to field some questions from people who are watching this live. And there is, I think, a little question box somewhere on your screen that will enable you to pose questions. And actually, I can see the magic of screens. I can see that I've got one here from John Stuart Gordon, who is asking about the pigments in the manuscript. So I'll just read his question. Were the other pigments, the blues, red, greens of related value, sort of equivalent value to the gold, and did the use of one sumptuous material necessitate the use of equally sumptuous materials? That's a good question. Because gold, we think of, is the most valuable pigment. But was it? Ellie, do you want to take that one? Well, I guess the first thing to say is we don't know exactly what pigments were used in any individual manuscript unless we've done scientific testing on them, which, for the vast majority of our manuscripts, we haven't. So it's a tricky one to answer. I know that lapis lazuli, for example, is said to have been, I think it's equivalent value to gold, that those are the two most valuable pigments, both precious, well, stone and metal. Both were imported very long distances before they were used in manuscript production often, and often used together. You know, there's a lot of manuscripts in the exhibition that are the golden blue palette.  In the film, Hamish, I think, made some really, really important points about labor and the labor of the extraction of materials and the production of them. And I think maybe that's another thing that comes across is that the material in itself has a kind of value by weight. But the transformation of those materials into paintings by skilled artisans is, you know, a kind of another, I suppose, form of value that really comes across throughout the exhibition. Any fool can have a lump of lapis lazuli. It takes a really skilled artist to grind it in the right way, bind it with a medium, and apply it to the page, doesn't it? But I think the interesting thing is that lapis, we know, only came from one site in Afghanistan, that was one reason for its very high cost that it had to travel so far. I think the other interesting thing that Hamish also brought out is that it's not possible to tell where the gold comes from in each of these manuscripts because gold was used and reused and circulated in the form of gold coinage, which could then be melted down. So one does look at all these wonderful manuscripts and just wonder where the gold comes from. But it's something about the aura of gold, it's so pure, is that it's so difficult to trace. Yeah, and also I think whether we know exactly where the particles on the page came from, there can be no doubt that they reflect incredibly complicated trade networks that connected the cultures that we're seeing in the cases, didn't they? And on the pigment front, you've seen in the film some excerpts from about a two minute film that Patricia Lovett and one of our bookbinding conservators did for us, and people have also said how interested they are, I think including your husband comment, that you just say, oh, how are they? How are these? How is it applied? How did it get into books? How do you make a gold ink? How do you write a whole book in gold? So that's a nice aspect that we wanted to explore as well, the origin and also the technique and how is it done? Pre-modern scientists were often so interested in alchemy, the turning of base metals into gold. But the funny thing is that actually there's another kind of alchemy, which is turning gold into books and manuscripts and objects and bindings and so forth, which is really fascinating. So there's another question here from Yoko, saying thank you so much for this amazing private view. You're welcome. And her question is, do you have any plan for the future to organize Gold II? Oh. An exhibition with the long-listed items that you have which miss them? And if so, she says it would be really wonderful. So Gold, the second album, is that in the works? I think we're already compiling the list of all the things that we couldn't fit in this time round, certainly. Well, as you know, we've got two galleries and this is the smaller of the two spaces, which is why we have only 50. And as we were working on it, I think the bigger space did loom. But on the other hand, then you really do need to enhance it with other sorts of objects and more lines and to be able to make a sort of a pun. But it is kind of a jewel of just a small, very focused, very beautiful. 50 objects is actually, I mean, it is a lot, I think. And it invites, I think, kind of close and careful looking. I think there's another thing in that question, which is about how materials allow you to cut across the collection in some really interesting ways. And you mentioned Lapis Lazuli in blue, which certainly connects Europe to the kind of mountainous range in and around Afghanistan, which is where I think we think it was mostly sourced in the Middle Ages. And it's probably a bit mean to say, let's brainstorm other materials that could let us do that. But I think even very ordinary inks, I think, could help to tell some of those transcultural and trans. So gold, too, or some other material of note. OK, I'm going to ask another question. This one from Raymond Lam. Thank you for an inspiring and very interesting tour. On behalf of everyone involved, thank you, Raymond. The Buddhist manuscripts from Thailand and Myanmar date to the 19th century. Do we know how early back gold was being used for Theravada texts in these regions and cultures? That's a good question. Yes, it's a very good question, because manuscripts on paper and organic materials from Southeast Asia don't exist from a long time back. The earliest manuscripts really only date from the 17th century onwards. That is manuscripts written on paper. So that will explain why the ones we have on display in the gallery are from the 19th century. But when you think that the oldest items in the entire exhibition are two gold strips from Myanmar. They're Buddhist chants written in Pali in the Pew script, which would have been rolled up and placed at the base of a stupa, which was being constructed to symbolize the presence of the Buddha. When you think that gold, the association that gold was used for writing the most precious sacred texts already at that early period, it does suggest that gold was also used for manuscript illumination. But we simply don't have any examples extant today. And remarkable survivals, those two. I wonder, looking at them, if part of their message is that the gold is valuable, but the text more so. I mean, is that ultimately what is being said? Is that the preciousness of the words or the messages are somehow more valuable than the material things? Or maybe that's maybe. I'd like to think that, but these are probably acquired after following they were just discovered by villagers digging, and things like that come up through archaeological investigations. I think the problem with gold is that it is so versatile that most gold manuscripts or inscriptions were very quickly melted down and reused for other things. So actually, interestingly enough, there's an inverse proportion. Gold used in small quantities in books will probably survive for many centuries, but the ultimate gold manuscripts are very, very susceptible to being recycled and being valued more for their material rather than their words. Yeah, and when you have gold leaf, which, as I think you and also with the help of Patricia Lovett explained, is beaten out to these almost impossibly thin foils, it's actually very difficult to reuse it in that form, to kind of scrape it down and make it into something else. But you're right, these solid gold objects must have been irresistible once people found them. Yeah, okay, another question. Well, this one's a very open question, so if nobody would like, if you don't want to do this, then just say no. But the question is, can you talk a bit more about the inscriptions on actual pieces of gold? I think these are some of the most surprising astonishing artifacts in this show, is like that a manuscript can actually be a solid piece of metal furled up. Yeah, do you have other kind of reflections on that beyond what you've already shared? Well, actually we've got this one wonderful case where all the golden objects are gathered and it shows what a range of texts there are. There are sacred Buddhist chants in Pali. There's a secular letter from the princes of Bali to the Dutch governor. There's a treaty signed between the king of Calicut and the Dutch East India Company. And there are two gold commissions issued by the last king of Myanmar to an underling but making him an overlord of two townships. So I think you can see the range of uses that they've been put to. And perhaps in the same case is an extraordinary. Yeah, it's one of our other really early items is just a fragment. You could see it in the film of a cannon table, so sort of concordance that would list passages that are the same in a Greek gospel book that's painted gold and then painted on top of that. It was almost as early as the early... Yeah, so I think it's faded to 6th to 7th century so it's right around the same time. And it's interesting, those cannon tables, they're so astonishing but they're also in effect an index. It's like the most glamorous index, the most unimaginably glamorous index, isn't it? And it suggests that they're interested in more than just the indexical function of the words. They're saying something pretty profound. And I think it goes to your point that gold emphasizes the sacredness of the text. And maybe both are true.  I think in the case of the sacred manuscripts it's a way of saying this is the word of God. You know, this isn't just any ordinary text. It's not any ordinary words. These are God's words elevating it. Yeah, for the maker as well. I mean, I've not used gold ink very much but I have to say it's incredibly difficult to use to get it to flow through your brush or your pen. I mean, it's really, really tricky. I mean, Patricia love it, it makes all that kind of stuff look very easy. I mean, I guess our best hope of understanding how a medieval artist or scribe would have used it. But I wonder sometimes about the meditative function for the artisan or the scribe producing these texts as well. Okay, so another question about, I think Kathleen's star object, the Queen Mary Salter. I think this might be unanswerable, but you can have a go. What would be the cost of commissioning a book like the Queen Mary Salter written in gold today? More than a Ferrari? The cost questions are always difficult because we don't usually have, there's some contemporary record, well, a little bit, a couple of generative after that of the Lillington missile where we have the accounts from Westminster Abbey and the book still survives. And it's also complicated because the scribe got room and board and I think four pounds a year to say he wasn't just paid to do that but the images were paid for separately. But something like that book it's also made by the Queen Mary master and every single illustration by the same artist it must have taken a very long time and it was not a cheap. In then, I think one of the things we have so few records explaining how the cost of the scribe, the cost of the parchment, the cost of the materials. But I think actually the impression that you get is it's actually the cost of the maker and the parchment that would have been the main driver for cost. But these kinds of menus, well, that's what I mean. Yeah, exactly, probably, I mean, for some of the books in this exhibition you probably have the artisans resident in your palace or castle or whatever for the period of time making them. They're just so highly bespoke but I think we all wish that we knew more about the price tag to be a bit Jessie J. But it's not about the price tag which is what she would explain if she was on this panel anyway. So another question that I'm sure everybody, well, we probably have some insights from the films but really it's about the object that you most enjoyed working with or that you were the most astonished by that you learned the most about. I wonder if you each have a kind of a thing that you knew you wanted to have in the show but this gave you an opportunity to learn about it in a way that you hadn't anticipated. Is that a bit of a mean one? I mean, your top favorite is another way I think of putting the same question. Well, I'm gonna answer it in reverse because I think it would be, I think I've talked about, I might have, but you saw in the back of, in your background, something, well, you knew about it but there's amazing, Vermont, which is a grant of a title of an honor to an English woman on silk and then covered with gold and inscriptions and it's just so ridiculously sumptuous. I mean, it has everything that you could possibly want like an embroidered parasol. I mean, it's because it's not just the gold on that object. It's set into this extraordinary silk textile and... Yeah, so we are all looking at it as we speak and we hope that you'll come to the exhibition Sorry everybody, you'll have to come. And see it too, but it's over two meters high. It's a pheromone from Misha Alam II, the Mughal Emperor, issued in 1789 to Sophia Plowden, who is an English woman who was resident in India at the time. Her husband was an East India company official and Sophia was a musician who loved Indian music so she'd attend the Suarez at court and she actually copied down the tunes and then transcribed them for Harpsichord and published them to Greater Claim in back in England in the 1780s and such a great story and so she was honored by the emperor for her interest in courtly music and so she brought back with her to England this amazing pheromone which is written on paper which has been entirely gilded behind and then set on a piece of red silk which has then been stamped in silver and gold and adorned with decorations and the royal insignia of a parasol at the top. It's one and it's been amazing condition considering how old it is. It's also I think an interesting object because so many of the objects here if we know about who made them or for whom they were made, they're men really and this is an object that I mean it must have towered over the woman for whom it was presented but it is really nice to see the feminine shining through as well although we're also looking at a rather wonderful Tibetan manuscript which I think also has some very powerful female deities inscribed on it as well. Ellie, do you have a maybe last word favorite star object that you'd like to end with? So from going from what's probably the biggest item in the exhibition to maybe, well, one of the smallest I think my favorite is the little gold girdle book 16th century English manuscript in a precious gold solid gold cover. It's about it could fit in your palm like this and it's designed to be worn on a girdle so from a lady's belt hanging on a chain and so she could pick it up and read it whenever she wanted. It contains the Psalms in English verse translation and I love it because it's a gorgeous object and it just feels so special to hold it in your hands. It's just glowing and gorgeous and also because I had great fun researching it because there's a tradition that it belonged to Anne Boleyn which we wanted to get to the bottom of for this exhibition because it's something that people kept asking us about and sadly it probably didn't belong to Anne Boleyn but I had a great time going through all the 19th and 18th century sources trying to find out where the story came from and the sad answer is that it came from a mix up. Scholar's getting very mixed up in that period. Well, you've done some absolutely phenomenal research to put this exhibition together and not all discoveries are what one would hope for I suppose but you've achieved so much and I think you've made an absolutely spectacular show here and I think and thank you to everyone who's joined us this evening and I just want to get finished really by thanking you thanking the makers of the film and the other curators who contributed to it and inviting everybody to come and see the show at the British Library. It's on until the 2nd of October. See you here, see you at the BL and until then, good evening. Good evening.


Hey, what's good? I'm gonna chop him.  Uh-uh. See, you wanna go like that. You don't wanna do that, you wanna go like that. You know what I'm saying? It's quicker. It was like, you know, you played in the SEC where he at. Black Cleese and White Sox. White Sox. Black Cleese, White Sox. That's all we could wear, though. Ugh. There you go. Hey, if he flashed, if he flashed too, you chop that down. Well, I'm really, I'm really like that, with that ball. Okay, faster. I'm too slow on that reroute, yo.


Well, we're glad to know you're still there and watching the breakfast on Plus TV Africa. We are now going to look at what is brewing in the oil sector, as it were, the independent petroleum market as an association of Nigeria. Ipman yesterday asked these members to show a proposed strike over alleged extortion by petroleum tanker drivers, PTD. The association in the statement refuted allegations of extortion of 200,000 Naira against the tanker drivers. It also urged the federal government to grant its members licenses to import petroleum product. Right now, we are being joined by our guest to talk to us on that. And our guest is Chief Ukadike Chinedu, the Ipman National Public Relations Officer. Good morning and welcome to the program, Chief Chinedu. Good morning, my brother, and good morning Nigeria. Okay. Well, the topic is that there's this allegation against your organization or your association that there's been extortions from on the tanker drivers and you're refuting that. What even is the reason for the smoke that you're saying there is no fire? Well, you know, some group of people that were being misguided and on a farm, you know, who have decided to compress us, to be able to then very cheap, call a cheap place to go and also destroy the tranquility we are not enjoying in the oil and gas industry, you know, worked up one morning and decided to turn at themselves, you know, to start making some unguided statements against tanker drivers, the petrol tanker drivers of Nupeng and as the spokesman of the organization, I was also informed of that gathering, you know, and quickly I informed the National Secretary of State to lead by analogy, for example, who called our members in the north because the people are like that, they are not a part of the north, so they called our members in the north, our National Chairman to be able to find out with the social information that the National Chairman so-and-so denies that it was both for the country and there, but it wouldn't give any context because of that, they depended on that concern. We have three tiers of executives who have complete executives, we also have the national executive, we have the national executive, it lies on the front burner of the national executive council, if we have any discrepancies or any issues bordering on labor connection or a social by Nupeng, we have an internal mechanism, we have a private item, we have the Nato, the Nupeng, CTD and if man normally sit down to be able to resolve some issues, you know, bordering on logistic and there, does not make sense or not, whereby those internal mechanisms have not been exercised, the independent markets are with north, all of the stations to go on and start inciting marketers who are acclimatizing themselves with dispute regulation policy to go on strike and sabotage the effort of government. So quickly we issue the settlement on that and I think that settlement issue has put that to rest and we have also asked the agency to get those groups to find out whether they are being politically motivated, not economic possible. Yeah, but you know, tanker drivers saying that they are being extorted and you're saying there's nothing like extortion and all that, is there some kind of fracker between the Ipeman and the tanker drivers particularly or why do you think this came up? It's a very unfortunate, you know, for somebody to just devil social amateurs' allegations against our own drivers who are also driving a post-pollution collection, 200,000 mirrors, you know, from us before they load the post-pollution program. This is unfounded. It's never unfounded. This, most of the drivers they are talking about are employees of Ipeman. Most of them drive for us so that it's nowhere we go to the public and say we will not go and load. Who are going to load the program? That we will not go and load because our own tanker drivers who are also working for us, who are calling the streets and rules of Nigeria, trying to ensure that the deliverer of petroleum products are now starting off. Who is throwing pitas to pay for? You know, when you find someone for who are just trying to notice me and the busybody, also trying to be, they are being paid, you know, to be able to see how they can be able to put a partner in the way while we are all trying to see how can they be able to gather ourselves together to see what we can do in the challenges before us and then put our own petroleum products and set our marketing. The most basic interest of any criminal marketer is to see how can they be able to achieve. I'll say what the NDP are. Chief Uqadike, you know, listening to this story, it just doesn't add up because first of all 200,000 Naira is a lot of money, cannot be hidden and you cannot pay someone such money or collect such money from someone without some sort of evidence. That's one. And then two, you then begin to ask what might be the gain of anyone who may be sabotaging or trying to sabotage the process? What might be their gain? They are looking that their own drivers are going to pay 200,000. They would have still improved of how they pay the 200,000 Naira together, their own drivers. The NDP is what we marketers will only give our drivers to go and load our products. And we also would dispatch. There is no way you would dispatch your driver from Potacos to Lagos without giving him hidden money, without giving him deserve money, without giving him so good money to pay awareness. And also, let's listen to this message in case if the vehicle breaks down on the road. It is not only the issue of looping. It is the issue of where independent marketer can be able to call their drivers and sit down with them and ask them what is the latest purchase plan, how much they deserve. I will give it to you from Naira to Lagos.  If he doesn't want to spend money, he should stop giving his drivers. He should reside with them. So if somebody is coming out to come and says, lie and dig it out, so that they can go without proof. Because he is a dependent marketer. The switches don't collect any money for him or for us. What money will we give? If we give to our own drivers, that's not where you go. I'm thinking of looking for them to ask if my members to grab, pay them. No. Any money, if I'm loading my confidence, I'll give my money to my drivers. The money I will give for him, I will keep him. If I don't give him, he won't let me. So there is no uniform amount. It's on your own discretion. Individual discretion.  If the money you give to your driver, it will get money.   Okay. Okay. Chief, you've just said that it is possible that people are being sponsored to do this. How far have you gone to get to the bottom of this? Because just hearing that tanker drivers might go on strike or Ipman might go on strike, brought some frenzy into some cities. People were panicking and all that because that's a very critical sector that you are operating in. So how far have you gone to make sure that these people are found out and possibly brought to book so that this kind of panic cannot be put in the minds of people of Nigerians who depend a lot on what you do in your sector, in the oil and gas sector? I want to reaction again through this media. And we are also debunked as those needs and some press statements leaked by our national secretary. That's no member of the point it's going on strike. Our stations are open. We are waiting also trying to see how we can be able to serve our chief power. We want to support this administration by selling our produce. We are ready to stand. It is the fifth night. If we close our selling stations and our money is being taxed, who are we to do it? I will do the same document I will do it. I will do it in our sector. We are ready to stand. After that I will switch this energy into the three regression regime. No right-thinking human being. No right-thinking human being. We are whatever. With this kind of condition we are trying to understand that we will ask marketers to stop noting their produce and selling their petroleum products. No right-thinking human being. Those who put up the main one for independent marketers. And they don't have such rights to make such statements. And I also want to reaction again that independent marketers, we are not going on strike. And there's nothing like any strike anywhere that everybody should go out about and do their business. Those who are trying to stop political points or who are trying to sabotage this deliberation process, please. Should please be won. And security agencies should go after them to find out and let them figure out the receipts they would use in paying their driver 200,000 to not one single product. I want to press you that they observe that no product is for sale now. You can't even get up to 200,000 when it is to be selling your product. So why would you press 200,000? I don't know who is giving them such a go. Because both those group of people that are getting out there, most of them are non-marketers. And they are not the same number of big man. They are not the same type of big man. So coming to the public to go out and brag with themselves and find out how to go and sabotage the economy of this country. It's what the DFS and the police should water. For such unguided actions and pledges that 200,000 there, it's unimaginable. Okay.  We'd like to have updates all the time when we have the opportunity to talk with you because we are concerned about when the cost of petrol will likely come down, if ever it will come down. And that will depend also on your ability to also import the product so that so many people importing the products at the same time maybe will bring the cost down a little bit. So how far so far into the issue of importing fuel by your members? Are you getting closer? Right now, we only know of the five or six people who were given licenses. Are more people collecting licenses or are there challenges that you're facing in getting the licenses to import? Yeah, the most important is the mission and vision of the right thinking of the decision. Such achievement is to find a way to import their petrol room product themselves and be able to complete with NDPR and so on that go to ask more the people, the federal government has issued licenses. Like I told you after our executive council meeting last month, the National Executive Council mandated me and some of the delegates to travel to this region in the United States of America. So they are able to discuss with our financier on the best way to be able to import our petrol room product and they will do so. And I got the phone from the script and I put me as possible who reconvened the next, who reconvened the next. So they are able to give them information and find the mission results of what we have done. And also our license and progress, I think, by now, by the time I see that we're in the doors of the hospital, we're ensuring that the federal government issued license to us, we'll also brief the next, so that we can manage these things. This is what an application is meant for. The premium of power, our team, if we show that we have a stillness institution of petrol room product at the cheapest level, we don't want the special where we're going to get the work that will get the job. That is why we're trying to get this issue of petrol room product. So that we can do what's important. We're incomplete. We will not be at the measure of LDPR anymore. So the window has opened. And I also want to let you know that there is sufficient petrol room product that's made available and we're in the better market as a profit to you now. We are loading in all our depots to ensure that the petrol room product is distributed and not the mix and quality of petrol. Yeah, we know they might be fuel. Availability is different from the ability of people to buy and we're looking for a time when it will come down. This is a critical question here, sir. This is a critical question. The next slide is about the issue to us. The slide is about the issue to us. It's very, very important to you. Why? And you will also see in our press statements, because there are procedures, you'll also see in our press statements that we will also audit federal government to ensure that the process of giving us a personal license in line with our discussions with our our collaborators and our funders will help us get our petrol room products at the level of hopefully before the end of August. Because we've seen some headlines, we've seen some headlines that licenses have been given to Dengote and I think three or four other companies to import fuel. So yeah, so we were wondering are these people, even part of Ipeman, are they known to you, even if they are not part of Ipeman? Because we kind of like know only Dengote. We don't know the five, but as I said, six licenses, I think that were given out, we know only Dengote. Do you know the other five and are they part of Ipeman or not? No, I also believe that some of the other partners, the members of Boman and maybe some, is the issue of license and individualism. It is not him that has an association, but because of our complete existence and our obstacle statutes in government, in the society, that is why we are applying so that we can be able to reach our members, so that we will not be an image of the major market and the NNPPR and MOMA. And when market forces begin to determine, how much do you think, what is the lowest you think Nigerians can begin to buy fuel eventually? I'm telling Nigerians that we should be expressing the total for our budget, the range of 300 to 400. By the time, they might also fly testing. And I also believe that it depends on the price it is cheaper when we sell it. With anger for small messes, if it gets to 300, maybe things will calm down. Definitely, okay. I'll reassure you that definitely. We are even praying for less than 100 if it's possible, 250, 200, no wallah. Exactly, because that's the first point for all of these, with all of these stories, the refineries, our local refineries should be made to work. That should have been the first step and that's been the call from Nigerians, let the refineries work. So we stopped talking about important fuel for goodness sake. It's such an embarrassment talking about important fuel. The mercy of those who can refine our product. Well, thank you so much for your time. Chief, thank you so much for coming on the show to give us more information about the things that were worrying us all this while. It's always a pleasure having you. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. And before we go, we'll give you the course of the day. Well, okay, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Chief Ukadike Chinedu is Ipman National Public Relations Officer and he's talking to us about the rumor that the members of that sector might go on strike and he's cleared the matter and said that there's nothing like that and whatever was said was just a rumor. But right now, like Maureen said, let's just leave you with the final quote for the day. And this is coming from Thomas Edison. He says many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up. So whatever the matter might be in your life, do not give up. My name is Nyamugun Agadje. And I am Maureen Meno Wensigwe. Thanks for your time. Join us tomorrow for the breakfast.