Good morning everyone and welcome to our audience here at USIP and to our friends joining us online. Thank you so much for joining us on the second day which on what has been a tremendous program on US relations with Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and and dealing with the legacies of war. I'm really pleased to welcome everybody to USIP this morning for a discussion of the future of US relations with with Vietnam as well as Cambodia and Laos. We have a terrific panel joining us on stage in in just a moment but first we have a video from Ambassador Mark Napper in Hanoi. He wasn't able to join us live because he's been hosting the visit of Assistant Secretary Crittenbrink out there. There's been a ton of activity in the region lately and this tremendous program is just one way in which we're seeing relations between these countries advance at a very complicated time so welcome to everyone please roll the video and then we'll get going with our terrific program this morning. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me to deliver remarks at this important event on reconciliation and peace in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia organized by the US Institute of Peace. I am honored to have the chance to share the transformative story of the US Vietnam reconciliation journey and my vision for the future with all the esteemed guests here today who share a common interest in building peace by strengthening our trust in one another. The United States is looking forward to celebrating the 10-year anniversary of the comprehensive partnership between the United States and Vietnam next July. Since President Obama and Song signed this agreement in 2013 our relationship has grown by leaps and bounds. The Biden-Harris administration has a strong desire to see the relationship elevated to a strategic partnership because when you look at our close cooperation across so many fields strategic more accurately describes the work we are already doing together. In 1995 the leaders of the United States in Vietnam normalized bilateral relations. This was a remarkable achievement considering just 20 years earlier we were at war. Yet today our nations are close partners with the friendship anchored in mutual respect and trust. The journey from 1975 to today was not an easy one. Our predecessors had to set aside their differences, acknowledge their shared painful history and confront the legacies of war rather than let old resentments fester. How did we do this? By taking concrete and meaningful action over decades to demonstrate goodwill and to build trust. In 1989 the United States government began an assistance program for persons with disabilities which has grown exponentially over the last 30 years. In total the United States government has provided more than 140 million dollars in assistance for persons with disabilities. What started three decades ago as basic support for prosthetics has expanded to encompass a diverse range of assistance from partnering to strengthen the legal and regulatory framework to expanding health and social services for persons with disabilities. We are working hand in hand with the Ministry of National Defense to improve the quality of life of persons with significant disabilities in eight provinces that were heavily sprayed with Agent Orange. Working together we have made tremendous progress in bettering people's lives. This includes the passage of the National Law on Persons with Disabilities in 2010, establishing state-of-the-art rehabilitation services in Vietnam and promoting the adoption of universal access criteria. This last, for example, resulted in 13 airports being made accessible for persons with disabilities. These are just a few examples of the transformative gains we have achieved together. Almost 50 years after the end of the war Vietnam still has some of the highest rates of unexploded ordinance in the world. Since 1993 the US government has contributed more than 185 million dollars to address unexploded ordinance related activities and is the leading mine action donor in the country. In Guangqi province alone, US implementing partners have removed more than 770,000 UXO items, cleared more than 250 square kilometers, educated hundreds of thousands about mine risks, and assisted thousands of UXO survivors. From 2018 to 2021, UXO related casualties fell to zero. But unfortunately, as the three accidents that occurred this year show, there is still a lot of work to be done. And the United States is proud of our close cooperation at the national and provincial levels to develop Vietnam's expertise in clearing unexploded ordinance. We will continue to work with Vietnam so we can eventually declare Vietnam mine impact-free. The US government has also made a major commitment to Vietnam to remediate areas contaminated with dioxin. From 2012 to 2018, we remediated dioxin contamination at the Danang International Airport. And upon completion, we handed over 75 acres of clean land that is now being used for the expansion of Danang International Airport. This was a $110 million project that required us to pioneer new technology in thermal treatment. Building on lessons we learned from Danang, in 2018, we launched a project to remediate dioxin at the Bien Hoa Air Base, the primary Agent Orange storage and handling site during the US Vietnam War. This new project will be completed over a 10-year period, requiring roughly $450 million. Through these projects, we are helping to build the capacity of Vietnam to oversee the remediation of smaller sites of contamination in the future. The bedrock of US Vietnam military cooperation since the normalization of relations has been the joint effort to account for and recover the remains of 729 of the 1,973 American servicemen lost in Vietnam. Great strides have been made in accounting for US war dead. However, conservative estimates indicate that there are hundreds of thousands of unaccounted for Vietnamese soldiers. This amount climbs to over 1 million when including civilians and other people affected by the tragedy of war. Vietnamese culture places enormous emphasis on family and ancestry. Without the closure that comes from giving proper burials to their ancestors, families who lost loved ones continue to suffer. In recognition of this fact, in 2021, another area of cooperation was added, the Vietnam War Time Accounting Initiative, which will help Vietnam to account for their missing. This project consists of six discrete areas, ranging from building the capacity of Vietnam to analyze DNA samples to digitizing war-related documents located in the United States to interviewing and recording first-hand information from veterans in both countries. The strong comprehensive partnership that we share today is a result of countless actions taken over several decades, taken by dedicated individuals on both sides to address legacies of the past, while we also work together to address the challenges of the future. Today, our cooperation across diverse sectors is making our partnership even stronger. Together, we are building strong health systems that will be resilient against the health threats of tomorrow. Together, we are establishing strong people-to-people ties through exchange programs between U.S. and Vietnamese students and professionals. Together, we are building resilience to adapt to the impacts of climate change and reach our shared net zero emissions goals. And together, we are building a brighter future for the people of both countries. A close Vietnam-U.S. partnership will be vital to realizing a safe, secure, prosperous, and resilient Indo-Pacific region. The depth of our cooperation reflects an understanding that the Indo-Pacific region, which is already home to more than half of the world's people and nearly two-thirds of global economic activity, will only continue to grow and influence over the coming years. The United States and Vietnam share a common vision of a free and open Indo-Pacific with sea and skies governed by international law. Realizing this vision will require us to continue our work together into the future while engaging other like-minded countries in the region. Thank you very much. I'd now like to welcome Ambassador Ving and Ambassador Jenkins to the stage. Please come up and join us, Ambassador Ving. Come center. Just a few housekeeping notes for our audience. We will be doing Q&A after both panel sessions. That will be done with note cards that I hope are out there in the audience. So and someone will be coming around to collect those and then we'll we'll do the Q&A via those via those note cards. So please be ready with your questions. Good morning guys. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm going to introduce you in turn and have you and have you make and have you make remarks and then we will shift to the Q&A. So my dear friend Ambassador Ving is known to is known to anyone that's dealt with US-Vietnam relations for for many decades. He had a distinguished 38 year career in the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs rising to be Deputy Foreign Minister, a post he held for a long time and and concurrently he was the Vietnamese senior official for ASEAN. Actually at that time that I was the senior official for for ADMM for the ASEAN Defense Ministers Meeting plus you were all you were the senior official on the foreign ministry side and we had the opportunity to do a lot of great work together so it's a real privilege to have you to have you with us. He, Ambassador Ving is now the President of the US-Vietnam Society which is a non-governmental entity dedicated to deepening US-Vietnamese ties and one of the things we always talked about was US-Vietnam relations and also US-ASEAN relations especially with regards to your immediate neighbors. So welcome Ambassador Ving and over to you for your remarks which you can do seated or from the podium as you as you prefer. Thank you very much Vikram for the kind words and kind introduction and I would love to be together with Ambassador Chet Kinks. She was from Vietnam very recently and also involved with Wally because he issued my appreciation for all this one. Certainly I would like first to say a few words of appreciation to USSIP for organizing this dialogue on Wally because he's in peace and it was a great opportunity for us to get together not only looking at the past, how we have been doing but also looking towards the future and this section is very much for doing so. My topic will be focusing on Vietnam-US relations and the future of the cooperation including in the area of addressing war legacies and I think that through that story we can have experiences for other countries like Laos and Cambodia. Certainly I will be focusing on three points first on the current relationship between Vietnam and the US. We have the strong foundations for our strong partnership. Second will be how the question of war legacy is to play in our relationship and certainly my vision a third part is on the future of Vietnam-US relations. Currently Vietnam-US we have a strong foundations for strong partnerships as I mentioned it. It has been built through our nearly 30 years of our diplomatic relations since 1995. The relationships have been built on the guiding principles in our relationship that includes also mutual respect and mutual benefits acknowledging so-and-so the respect for political system of each country and that will continue to be a very important principle for us to work together. On the political front I think the relationship has been strongly improved throughout the 27 years that we have diplomatic relations and in 2013 we established a comprehensive partnership which covers all areas of cooperation including from political to diplomatic and to economic investment and to security and defense and certainly other fields including education, technology, tourism or people-to-people exchange which is very much an important part of our relationship. Throughout the years we have a regular exchange of visits including at the highest level. Every US president has been coming to Vietnam ever since. I was honored to assist two visits by President Obama and President Trump to Vietnam in 2016 and 2017. It was very much good. Let's talk about trade and economic cooperation. We have a good push for that one. Back in 1994 and 1995 trade volume between the two countries was about half a billion US dollars but nowadays we have a total value of 112 billion US dollars almost more than 200 times over and it was great and there's still room a lot of space for us to continue to to enhance further. On security and defense we have enhanced our relationship including also in the field of world legacies. Vietnam has been committed to work with the US and the US has been landing a happy hand to Vietnam. That was very very much also. We have been cooperating on the issue of peace and cooperation in Asia and including working with ASEAN as well and I think that we share the principle regarding maritime issues including the South China Sea all the instances that we call it freedom of navigation peace and security maritime security and international law that would be very much important. The second point is that how the world legacy issue play an important role in Vietnam-US relations. I think at the starting point nations at once at war was a lot of mishaps between us and there need to be some efforts to heal the wounds of war and so this was the first thing first and the world legacy issue to be addressed not only to heal the wounds but more than that is to build trust and then to develop partnership between our two countries. I still remember that the veterans have been coming to Vietnam the families of the the soldiers of both sides have come together. They are the preachers of the relationship at the first point in time and the viet vets also include a lot of politicians the congressmen in different areas. So healing the wounds of war is to heal the wounds not for both the people involved but also for the nations involved the two countries of us and we have been doing a lot. Vietnam has at the beginning long before we established our relationship cooperative actively and also effectively with the US on the MIA issue the US also step by step enhanced cooperation with Vietnam in addressing the war legacy issues for Vietnam as well including clearing Korean soft landmines and the USO helping to clean the dioxin including the major project in Da Nang and the ongoing project in Bien Hoa and also helping the the people that are victims of the war as well that ambassador McNamper I just mentioned. So together this issue is more than trust healing the wounds of war it's the question of building trust and promote understanding between our two nations and our people that we can get together addressing the past but also like ambassador McNamper say looking forward to work together towards a future. Third point is that I have strong belief for continued growth of the Vietnam-US relations. The next three years will be important for us we have a lot of milestone to celebrate. Next year 2023 as ambassador McNamper just mentioned we will have the 10th anniversary of comprehensive partnership. The year after next 2024 will be 30 years of our normalization in the economic areas and 2025 certainly will be the 30th anniversary of our diplomatic relations and I think we have strong belief in raising further our relationship to the new high ambassador McNamper talk about strategic partnership. I've been writing and do a lot of interview in supporting this one also so that there must be a way for us to develop a roadmap for achieving something that already in place that is the strategic and comprehensive nature of the partnership between Vietnam and the US and to our this one I think the war legacy issue continue to be part of our partnership in moving further forward in in the future I will be stopping here and thank you very much for your attention thank you. Thank you Ambassador Ming and it really is interesting as we head to these next two years we may see a good opportunity to further elevate the the partnership. Next we have ambassador Bonnie Jenkins Ambassador Jenkins is under secretary of state for arms control and has you know been a leader in the field of arms control and non-proliferation for several decades now she I think it's safe to say from the state department led and really was the heft behind all of the nuclear security summits and the Obama administration which were in effort that I think was somewhat prescient given what we see happening today really a necessary global multilateral dialogue on on profound security issues she was legal advisor for the arms control and disarmament agency in between government stints she led global health security the global health security agenda consortiums work on on pandemic detection and mitigation you know she's a thought leader across the board in national security and diplomacy it's a real privilege to have her here she's also a professor been a professor at Georgetown senior fellow at Brookings the list goes on and on Ambassador Jenkins we really couldn't be more pleased and she was just in Vietnam three weeks ago so the timing is impeccable over to you for your thank you I think you're welcome to do it yeah I think I'll stand up since I do have my remarks a little easier to do it from here so good morning it's great to see everyone here and I guess everyone who's online as well as noted I was in Vietnam about three weeks ago my first time being there I've always wanted to go and it was a really great opportunity to to visit to soak up the culture to meet the wonderful people there and also to go to Quang Chi and see the work that's being done there a lot of work that's being funded by the State Department one of the bureaus of that work within within my my area so I have some as always government we have our prepared remarks and then of course we can have more of an exchange I knew that time was running fast so I'll go through this so I want to thank you for the introduction and to USIP for hosting this this morning this is very inspirational and important topic and one that I feel very strongly about it is an honor to be here on this panel with Ambassador Vinh and of course Ambassador Napper who was on screen a little while ago who I visited in Vietnam a few weeks ago just before I traveled to Quang Chi province in central Vietnam to see the US funded projects to find and remove unexplored and explore the ordinances so being here this morning is very timely as as already noted but it also underscores how incredible it is that we can all sit here as partners colleagues and friends in Quang Chi I'd not only study incredible work being done to remove explosive hazards but also the important work of reconciliation in action and in particular the resilience of the women's demining team had the pleasure of meeting as the under secretary of state for arms control and international security I oversee the bureaus of political military affairs arms control verification and compliance and international security and amplification in addition to policy and programs for preventing the spread of weapons of mass destruction our mission includes oversight of security assistance and defense trade as well as deterring conflict and enhancing strategic stability since 1993 the United States has provided more than 665 million dollars across east Asia and the pacific to find unexploded ordinances remove these dangerous items and help community communities heal and grow this work is only possible because of the commitment of people the people of Cambodia Hlau and Vietnam will conduct the dangerous work of finding and clearing land mines and unexploded ordinances the dedication and inspiration is very contagious and I want to thank all of them I want to also recognize the efforts of our partners and local governments and among the NGO community it is because of leadership and mine action authorities and cooperation among implementing partners that our programs to clear explosive remnants of war have been successful and because of this continued coordination among stakeholders the United States has been able to provide historical levels of funding in Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam last year alone we provided more than 67 million dollars to address unexploded ordinances issues in these three countries and this year we are on track to spend more than 75 million dollars our commitment is also measured in impact want all people in Cambodia Laos and Vietnam to live safely and in peace when I was in Quang Chi province in central Vietnam a few weeks ago I had the opportunity to sit down with some women D minors working with their implementing partners with our implementing partners mines advisory group Norwegian people's aid and peace trees Vietnam these brave women took time out of their day to share the experiences with me as the minors in the field and leaders in their communities I was in awe one woman's comments was particularly moving she said that her job as a D minor was her pride because while the wars in Vietnam were over she was contributing to ending pain in her community she and the many women working as D minors personify the goals of the UN Security Council resolution 1325 on women peace and security however we recognize that there is still a gender gap in security policy formulation and reform in many countries women are underrepresented at all levels in a national security decision-making process but it was so inspiring to see the women I was talking to that day over the last three decades and across bipartisan lines the United States has been trying to rectify this issue in our congress and in political leadership and in our representation at the united nations around the world we need women meaningfully participating in decision making at all levels to secure the prevention and resolution of conflicts that is why I am so proud of the work I saw in quang chi and throughout southeast asia clearing unexploded ordinances is foundational to our relationship because removing removing explosive hazards is a requirement for development there is still much to do but I am heartened by our progress on unexploded ordinance clearance and all war legacies issues I would also like to mention how inspiring it is to see the progress of the us-vietnam relationship in less than 30 years since normalization as ambassador napa mentioned next year marks the 10th anniversary of our bilateral comprehensive partnership its milestone offers a chance to reflect upon the many areas of shared interest between the united states and vietnam in particular the united states and vietnam are working together to promote stability and adherence to international law in the south china sea and we seek to push back on unlawful maritime claims in the region we are proud that vietnam now operates two former u.s coastguard cutters and we are excited to transfer a third to help vietnam secure its coastline we are also working with our partners at harvard usip and the international commission on missing persons to help vietnam find its missing soldiers as we had heard about already we are also expanding our relationship in the non-proliferation field through the u.s department of states bureau of international security and non-proliferation's export control and border security program and the department of defense's defense dirt reduction agency we are working together to develop regulations and strengthen biological chemical radiological security across vietnam's ports border crossings and institutions for many years in cambodia communities remained impoverished because mines were scattered and left unclear in foreign lands access to agriculture activities were limited due to more than three decades of armed conflict today in support of cambodia's goal of becoming mind-free by 2025 the united states and cambodia continue to cooperate to address war legacy issues including the reduction of unexplored ordinances contamination as well as accounting for missing u.s service members with united states support cambodia has experienced two decades of robust growth and made significant progress in advancing a sustainable development goals including clearing millions of land mines and unexploded ordinances and louse the united states has provided more than three hundred ten million dollars to clear and dispose of unexploded ordinances since our efforts started in 1995 louse is severely affected by unexploded ordinances during the indochina war and the united states is working to make sure our unexploded ordinances support the government of louse and its target to remove these ordinances as an obstacle to economic development by 2030 as you can see the united states is dedicated to working with vietnam cambodia and louse to address these war and legacy issues help heal the wounds of the past and support communities to thrive these are only some of our many successes in our bilateral relationships and because of the trust we have built between our governments by addressing the legacies of war we have opportunities in new areas in this relationship thank you thank you ambassador jankins and i'm so glad you got to go out there and what you didn't mention to the audience that you you actually got to pull the trigger on the detonation of some unexploded ordinance which is you know really brings it home yes it does you think in real life about what that might have that that piece of ordinance might have done to a child or somebody and you see that the impact the real life impact of of dealing with this very very difficult problem which which as you've noted takes takes decades and the united states has over the years continually increased its commitment to helping all three countries mitigate that that risk but then thank you for thank you for going and highlighting it and i love that you met with the with the women demining teams which is also that's great a really wonderful story we're gonna go to q&a so if you have questions feel free to pass them jenny is walking up and down and and collecting them and while they work on that i will i'll take the liberty of being the moderator to ask a few questions a few questions of my own you know we focus this discussion on on all three countries but in in some way the legacy of war cooperation with vietnam has truly led to a deep partnership including in security assistance areas strategic concerns with the region concerns about the south china sea the east sea as the vietnamese call it and stability it it has not had that similar larger effect yet with kimbodia and laos and i thought i would turn to ambassador vang who looks you know very closely at the region vietnam has long viewed a partnership between these three countries as as vital to vietnamese national interests and security but they also have differences with both laos and kimbodia particularly when it comes to china china's role in their economy and and protecting against some of the potential risks there so first ambassador vang and then investor jenkins if you care to reflect on on china's role in the region a little bit um and and and maybe why we've seen so much progress with vietnam whereas with kimbodia and laos us vietnam us bilateral relations have had a harder time advancing uh thank you vinkram uh certainly i can speak on the experiences of vietnam how we would be how we have been doing with uh the us and china and other countries in the region certainly with the us is at the beginning not everything is good yet uh at beginning even on the question of the world legacy issue including the american mias we have difficulties at first how we approach the issue and how we work together and what a lot of doubts from both sides but i think the earnest desire to cooperate to heal the wounds of war consider this issue of m i a of other issues including landmark clearance as a humanitarian issue starting from that so the experience and the lesson here is we start to address the world legacy issue not from a political point of view it's more on the humanitarian side of the issue and from that we try to heal the wounds of war for both nations and for the people's concern through that we develop a breach of trust between our two nations when they have trust it's easier for us to to work on a number of our and expand our areas of cooperation uh so uh on other areas of cooperation it depends on both sides on how we can work together uh there's there is a conclusion for both of us vietnamese and americans we when we work on the area of cooperation we know that we have differences but we also know there's a long list of commonalities that we can work together so we talk about differences on how to bridge the gap but we expand our cooperation on the list of priorities that we have a common interest and common point of view so on the issues of economy we start to have a bilateral trade agreement and we expand our trade relations but at the same time we can work together on a regional issue including trade as well for example we had been working together on the tpp and now we are working together on the ipad on the uh endopathy pick economic framework that that helped us a lot so through consultations we know what are the differences that we must address but at the same time we know the commonalities that we can expand our cooperation point number two is that for us vietnam we consider the u.s china or japan continue to be important partners for us each one of our bilateral relations has a merit in it so we deepen our relations without too much eyes on china or too much eyes on on on on on uh japan for example so uh what we call the principle foreign policy is that we try to be independent but at the same time be dimensional and multilateral try to be friends with everybody that's true in this case we try to be partners with u.s we try to be partner with uh the chinese and we try to be partner with indians and japan and everybody so the strong point here is that we can expand further our level of cooperation with the americans why we continue to work with the chinese sometimes there there are difficult point uh for example the u.s and china is now in rivalry or in competition what we can do with this one i think vietnam or other countries in asan we have a policy that we will not be taking size but to me it's not about not taking size it's we need to act more proactively to work with everybody for peace for stability and for cooperation in the region and to improve our bilateral relations on based on our shared interests so we what we try to do is not only to not to taking size but to work with the u.s but not at the detrimental of a third party or anyone and i think the inter-Pacific strategy without the u.s do not ask other countries to choose between the u.s or china that is a good point also that the u.s has been approaching the region and asa and so it depends on your national interest on how you improve uh relationship with major powers even when they have a competition but to to me vietnam has been doing try to improve and in expanding our relationship with both the u.s and china when we have differences we try to talk about differences including also on the question of eastern sea or south china sea we base ourself on the principles and the principle has been shared by the asan countries and other partners including maritime security peace and uh rule-based order over there including the respect for international law and unclose that will be very much important for us any dispute should be settled by peaceful means that will be also very much important so what we try to do is that so i think uh we can have a both good political and economic relations with china but at the same time we have strong foundations for partnership with the americans thank you now i i could only add just a little bit to what amasa ving has said because i think he's captured most of it um as you heard from from my remarks we have relationships in terms of um the legacy of war very close with vietnam uh continuing to strengthen with camvote and laos um i'm not an expert on uh comparing the how much we have in each but i will say that one of my main messages when i went out to vietnam and in southeast asia overall was we want to strengthen our bilateral relationships we want to find areas where we can continue to collaborate um so that's why a lot of my discussions in vietnam we're not only about landmines what we're about as we said maritime security aviation security expert controls um strategic trade uh so we want to continue to expand the ways in which and the avenues in which we can work by laverly um and that's the same with with other countries as well and so it's a matter of timing and getting things to get to the right place where we can continue to expand our work in addition with camvote and laos and i assume that that will happen in time um as far as the prc's uh presence i think it's very clear that they're the interest in southeast asia their presence in southeast asia the growing impact to the region but very similar to what investor being has said you know our goal is our relationship with the countries my focus is my relationship with vietnam um you know in and i understand that a lot of countries in the region are in a difficult situation with china and united states um but our goal is not to create a situation where countries have to make a choice it's their choice and and we just want to make sure that we have a good relationship we develop by our programs and ways which we can work together and develop trust and strengthen the partnership and that's our main focus yeah that's great i think i think yeah the the the cooperation is not about you know about choosing but about behaviors that are where they're shared concerns so where there are decisions made by one country that are detrimental to the interests of others and where we feel the same way when we seek to cooperate so for example in the south china sea but um you know i think the united states also doesn't want to have to choose we'd like to continue to have a constructive economic partnership with china even if we have elements of competition in that relationship so andrew is going to serve as the question coordinator so go ahead questions from the audience so i will try to put them together and it's around the question of a strategic partnership or strategic roadmap as ambassador vang mentioned for us vietnam relations what what will it take to reach that what are obstacles to it that the two countries need to work together on and what are roles for vietnamese americans in bringing that about i think that's to you ambassador vang what does it take to get to a straight a strategic partnership to elevate the part actually to me i consider our partnership has both the strategic and comprehensive element in it we have explained our relationship from political diplomatic economic investment trade and to security and defense issues in all areas that has been so the question here is uh i think during my time as ambassador here and we have ambassador ted oceos and dan custom bring uh in hannoy we have been discussing on this one there are a number of ways one one suggestion is that we already have the substance of everything over there do we need to put a name on it just for for the fight for the sake of the names only that is one point the second point is that oh we have reached that level put a right name on it that has been correct also and another one is that what would be the name different names at different levels not actually because uh japan china or russia or india we have different names and that can be the meaning of strategy so my my my part of view is uh we have reached the level of having both uh comprehensive and strategic nature of our partnership and both sides are working on further strengthening that one that is the most important thing now how to put a name on this one i think we need to get together and to talk about it what will be the right name strategic doesn't mean anything but the full name of all this one some someone say just japanese case they call we call it the enhanced part strategic partnership or something like that or strategic partnership for peace and development and cooperation so i think uh we need to to talk on that one but certainly we agree that for me personally agree that we have reached that level and we need to have a name for it and what we try to do is uh to have talks between the two sides and have recommendations from all of us here convincing both sides that we need to reach some some name for it especially next year when we celebrate the 10th anniversary of the comprehensive partnership so i think that means uh for the diaspora send in some send in some send in some suggestions we'll get them through ambassador vagan the formal process but just to add i think i think as ambassador saying however you whatever you call it i mean i think having these exchanges you know my visit um to vietnam ambassador assistant secretaries current visit there the exchanges the building of relationships the building of programs we could do together you know this is how you this is the process and we're in that process um so you know what does it mean we get there i think the important thing is the process of getting there and that's what we're doing right now so we have about five minutes so maybe andrew you can do a couple more yeah another topic of questions has to do with the example of us vietnam relations as it can apply to other countries so on questions such as uh international peace and security nuclear issues regional cooperation working with the u.n how can the example of us vietnam relations extend to these other issues in foreign policy ambassador jenkins you want to um i think it's about um you know we always try to learn from experiences and learn from relationships and builds on what what successes and you know try to stay away from things that are not as successful and i think in general you know having you know looking at the relationship that we have you know we're developing because we're still developing more in terms of um our relationship with with vietnam and continuing to build a trust um and and uh and you know the belief in what we can do together i mean that's how you you use that for other situations of course you have to modify it depending on which situation you are in well multilateral engagement you're involved in um but it's really just you know taking that and building it and using it in other situations but understanding there's different cultures and different ways of looking at the world but you know there are some things that you can take forward so the process of developing a stronger bilateral relationship is something that we can use in other cases where we're trying to do the same thing with other countries you know and i think that we are we are having successes and we've had this relationship for many years already so we have a template that we have to modify obviously to different cultures and different regions but i think that's what we try to do in diplomacy and that's what we try to do you don't know you don't always have to start from scratch one one k in policy by my my ad is about uh unp skipping that is a case in point us has been starting uh program to assist us in training our people in participating in when peacekeeping missions in in africa and it was very much good we're starting to send for the medical personnel to africa but nowadays we can send engineering people over there and it was very much good and the program is now expanded to receive not only assistant from the u.s but from australia and other countries as well i think we have a common common point of view here vietnam want to be part of the peacekeeping mission by the un and we have our request for assistance the u.s can have a technical assistant the australians can have a medical assistant and whatever way that we do this is very much good if i can talk more about vietnam u.s relations i think not only important is between government to government relations but in our case between vietnam and u.s people to people uh relations is very much important the starting point and during the time of our relationship on the question of addressing the world because he issues as well we have a lot of people organizations that have been participating in assisting our two countries and assisting vietnam on that one i have a list of names of the veteran organizations and people's organization like a vvaf vva vvmf vfw the veteran for peace or the fourth foundation or the peace tree vietnam or renew vietnam all these people organizations and the veterans organizations they have been very much a happy hand for us so uh if that experience can apply in other countries not only government to government relations sometimes politically difficult we have the people to people relations that can help promote environment that the government can be easier to do with each other thank you yeah i mean just one more thing i mean while we were in in quang chi one of the things that came up repeatedly is how we can use that in other places you know in vietnam and other places and of course we have some of our NGOs like halo and others um and peace tree as we talked about some of them are in other parts of vietnam but other other parts of the world so we're constantly looking at what's working and how we can do it other places well unfortunately we could go on but i think we have come to time i think it's a wonderful place to end with this idea of the foundation being people to people ties i i don't think any of the progress we've seen in this relationship would have happened without veterans combatants on both sides people who fought each other deciding they wanted a different future and coming together um informally first and then building this infrastructure on which we've really based this relationship so i think that's a wonderful place to end i can't thank both of you enough it's been a real pleasure and we will now broaden out to a little wider lens on the region um with our next speakers thank you both and give them a round of applause for you thank you ambassador thank you that's a good pleasure transition as quickly as we can though we're going to swap out some uh terrific thanks guys for for joining us um and thank you all again for being with us once again i'm vikram sing uh this is day day two of our project on uh on legacies of war and u.s relations with vietnam cambodia and laos for second panel this morning i'm very pleased to welcome welcome phuong vu who is actually currently working with us here at usip phuong is uh is an expert on armed conflict democratic peace looks at um at at how uh combatants engage in in in bargaining in conflict and in peace processes she is a former a former journalist and looks extensively at us vietnam relations and served previously at the us embassy in hanoi she'll be our our first speaker and then brian and we're going to use this as an opportunity to broaden broaden the lens so phuong please go ahead with your opening remarks and then we'll switch to brian and have a chat thank you vikram hi everybody thank you for being here all having made today and i'm very i'm very pleased and honored to i'll be here to share with you some uh honor and humble thoughts about the relation to the future of regional us relations with laos cambodia vietnam when andrew invited me to speak in this plenary about the future of the u.s relations with vietnam cambodia laos i had a immediate questions about what the real and what the questions really is is it about the u.s relations with individual countries allows cambodia in vietnam or the u.s relations with these three countries as a group so that question took me back to my first year at the military science academy back then i i was on the campus sharing with some laos and cambodia students who were military officials on training in vietnam what struck me a lot when i reflect on my time back then that i didn't see them as the foreigners at all and nobody told us to take a free cautions or watch for malas in their behaviors or presence so we were so comfortable together um and uh no one year passed by i i learned that vietnam is top policy and the policy has been consistently implemented that vietnam uh attached just the importance to develop the development of friendly traditional and constructive relations with neighboring countries and vietnam um it takes high importance to their relations with laos and cambodia and take and put the the relations between um vietnam and laos vietnam cambodia in contemporary politics it even plays in even more important roles um so i would like to um to to approach the the questions of the futures of the u.s relations with vietnam laos cambodia with the concept of perception it's about the perceptions of relations and perceptions of policy desire and public awareness so in first of all it's about the perceptions of the u.s relations with three countries um so you know that over the last sessions we attended yesterday we all know about the shared history and experience of vietnam laos can cambodia so i'm not going to take your time elaborating on those points but um temporarily vietnam has been facing um increasing challenges in terms of security and um uh regional challenges um vietnam laos and vietnam and laos can cambodia cambodia share borders that in case some conflicts or what happened or um laos um survivors or cambodia survival politically economically uh threatened vietnam would be extremely concerned uh and you know the three countries uh as as i i've known of they share and deal brotherhood uh so i i i do believe that um a common aggressive strategy for vietnam laos cambodia um of the united states will be necessary it's a good approach to develop and build trust with not only vietnam but the other brothers of vietnam it's important you know that in terms of war legacies and reconciliation we have been witnessing so many efforts that both vietnamese and american governments also angios who have worked long and hard to achieve what we we happily seen today however in in some corners of our society especially in vietnam we we heard something about transactional relationship because so far vietnam among the three countries they they got the most attention from the united states and some people they doubted that the united states invested so much in war legacies and reconciliation with vietnam because the united states so far needs the vietnam's support in enhancing and strengthening um their um their presence in the asian pacific as well as to achieve some uh grantable roles in the region so from my point of view i think um war legacies the reconciliation between two countries is important uh to to to strengthen trust mutual trust between two countries but if you take that step back to see the brotherhood that vietnam share with louscan cambodia i think uh it's important and if if united states considers to to build trust with vietnam um from a deeper level that united states won't build trust with louscan cambodia by doing so um the united state won't be very proud to to to tell the world that they are the ight of their investment in war legacy and reconciliation is a true ight of responsibility and humanity instead of some national interest that the united state is pursuing at the moment of speaking the second point i would like to touch on is about the the perceptions of policy design and public awareness i've heard um over the you know yesterday about the fund allocations and the project implementation in the field um i was surprised because i was not in this field so far as many groups and people who have been working in this field for 20 or from 10 years um but um in my communities well back in vietnam when i was talking to some people who were in the field they they expressed some concern that louscan cambodia have been forgotten in war legacy efforts of the united states however in the clothing discussions what i heard about is the united state that clearly have a good intention of invested more in those countries but the allocation and the the the implementation of those projects got some management problem or some some problem with local capacity to absorb capital uh so um but in other um discussion i also heard some voices from louscan cambodia um i mean lau and cambodia people they worry and they they are calling for more attention from the united state in terms of war legacy and reconciliation so we we clearly can see that the discrepancy is between public awareness and um and policy design uh so what i am i'm talking about this point um and that bring me up to some policy implication for the united states and of course be aware that i'm suggesting some policy even with my capacity as a research fellow not a vietnam consultant with usip so the first one is i think um um us um the united states could be uh benefit a lot if they can develop a strategy for vietnam level and louscan cambodia as a group of um who share an ideal brotherhood uh that's a new way of view um mutual trust and multilateral trust uh the second one is about to um to give to give a louscan cambodia a stronger a sense of relevance um and the third one is about to address public awareness instead of us and okay i think i really appreciate that we're getting in dc talking about this issue but i think it would be um even more promising if we can uh do this kind of dialogues in one of those countries uh in turn like this year we're doing dc next year we do in vietnam louscan cambodia where we can have a access to local voices directly and we can hear from people on on the ground who are suffering the consequences of war better um and um to and that's what i thought and to conclude i think the future of the u.s relations with louse vietnam and cambodia depends on how the united states prepares for sustained commitments to these three countries individually as well as to this group of three countries in a long haul thank you dr that's really uh really a helpful overview and helps us start thinking about the region as a whole turned out to brian eiler brian runs a southeast asia program and the energy water and sustainability program at the stimson center he's uh truly i think uh in in my professional life talking about me kong uh river basin there's no one i know that knows more actually brian um spent about 15 years in the field living in china and going up and down to all the me kong countries uh researching and talking to people um uh so you know that's one of the areas most important to multilateral cooperation and potentially multilateral conflict um in in this region really we're privileged to have you with us as well and brian over to you for some opening remarks thanks vic room and i want to thank andrew and brian for the opportunity to speak here at this conference um i'm going to give a hopefully a quick talk so we have time for discussion and questions from all of you about common challenges vulnerabilities and sensitivities in mainland southeast asia within cambodia louse vietnam and within the broader kind of global relationship and what the us can do to address some of these vulnerabilities and sensitivities um as well as the common challenges so to start i want to reflect a bit on michael schiffer's remarks yesterday michael schiffer from usa id who very rightly emphasized how uh usa id's approach to war legacies in vietnam has become very much people-centered now we remember through ambassador vinn's remarks how it started out as the people-centered effort right it was civil society groups here in the united states joining with civil society groups in vietnam um to kick off the war legacies effort but then national governments got involved uh and a top-down approach kind of this we started from a top-down approach with this but over the last decade plus it has become more and more people-centered particularly now with the focus on victims assistance and disabilities assistance to the people who have who experience the war and are still experiencing the war that we're now able to fully address that situation of the individual and address needs on the ground through real action and and it's that action um and the progress that's been achieved uh through war legacies that really has formed the cornerstone of the us vietnam relationship and it's created so many spillover effects positive spillover effects for the two countries that we've learned about today and yesterday and and we we all enjoy those positive spillover effects specifically i can think for vietnam some of the positive spillover effects is good governance war legacies engagement has improved governance in vietnam uh i'm often when i'm speaking with people about war legacies action in vietnam you hear about how provincial level authorities are doing this or that or civil society groups are acting with provincial level authorities and the national um uh authorities in vietnam to achieve impact around the world we struggle with national local relations right this is kind of a global governance issue but the war legacies uh issue area is one that has strengthened national local governance in vietnam and then some of that's done through regulatory improvements so this particular area has also created a regulatory effect that's very positive and endogenous in vietnam civil society this issue area has demonstrated how domestic civil society can be involved in addressing a very important issue given the needs that are on the ground and giving the capabilities that are on the ground and identify pathways to build capacity within civil society groups in vietnam to address these issues and that's done through us engagement but also through coming back to how this got started civil society engagement in an international scope so these are some of the the positive spillover effects that that war legacies engagement can achieve in other countries too so now we're going to pivot to cambodia and laos and and think coming back to the the china issue coming back to us knowing that these two countries are very important for engagement in azean but struggling to think about ways to engage positively there and to meet needs as they are being articulated in laos and cambodia there's there's a there's a struggle at the same time china's rise and i will argue it's its prc overreach and this is a term that's that i think we're going to be hearing a lot more about in the coming weeks and months professor susan shirk at uc sandiego is publishing a book about prc and shijin pings overreach and the intended and unintended consequences of prc action in the maritime space with the belt and road and international organizations and how we're all struggling to deal with that overreach i cannot think of two other countries in the world that are dealing with the vulnerabilities of prc overreach then laos and cambodia right now and they're struggling with the governance challenges that that poses laos is in a in a debt crisis severe inflation has been on the rise and laos governance challenges related to international crime and illicit crime on twitter if you follow un odc's accounts you'll see just almost every day there are these these possessions of math and other other drug cases that that just eclipse each other each time there's just more and more found and and and brought in and it's causing societal and a lot of societal pains in in laos and cambodia want a climate exposed country one of the most climate exposed countries in the world cambodia has said that it will not be able to graduate into middle income country status because of the climate challenge and there are investments in infrastructure that are related to the prc and some of that are not that are exacerbating climate challenges you just go to penal pen and see what i'm talking about as well as what we're learning about scam compounds in cambodia and criminal criminality that again it's part of prc's rise in the region for better for worse unintended consequences perhaps but these vulnerabilities are exposing the governance challenges in those two countries so where i can only imagine if if if i were a lao official in the foreign ministry or cambodia official in the foreign ministry looking at vietnam's success with the united states but there are people there saying you know vietnam is a champion of the discourse of not having to choose right vietnam has balanced these two uh relationships very well and benefits from that vietnam is vulnerable to china's rise as well but has a toolbox and a structure to deal with those vulnerabilities and to reach out to friends and partners to help balance and and reduce those vulnerabilities and while we do hear articulations from laos and cambodia on these vulnerabilities i bet that that it's that the conversations are happening and there's a turn and a pivot not to the united states from laos and cambodia for support but it's to vietnam it's to the brotherhood relationship between this this triad of countries um where there's a conversation on how to adapt to vulnerabilities happening so i just want to outline three opportunities that i think the united states can can deepen engagement and reduce these vulnerabilities in these countries one pragmatic engagement on war legacies it's a great place to start and we do have programs and engagement on these issues in lao and cambodia if we can see it as a common challenge and transfer that experience of creating good governance strengthening local to national ties bringing in civil society actors international to local um in this space then then the spillover effects will occur when we think about uh what's happened recently uh george black susan hammond jackie shagnan and lao marched up and down the mountains of southern laos to document agent orange exposure in laos and to take evidence to the government of laos and to the government of the united states to demonstrate how that exposure is is affecting lives in laos and now for the first time the u.s government is dedicating resources after lao has expressed the government of lao has expressed a need to address these resources for a study on exposure to agent orange in in lao um ambassador keo chao who we're going to hear from very soon when he first arrived here in washington gave a series of talks about war legacies engagement in cambodia that's a strong signal of of of interest and and need where the united states can deepen engagement and from that it might take 15 years but you know look at where we were 15 20 years ago with vietnam and look at where we are now in the deep trust and friendship that exists between our two countries and our ability to have honest conversations and to think through problem solving and a common and a toolbox approach to dealing with these vulnerabilities the second area is on climate and i'll just highlight two areas so the second area is on climate and uh my teammate courtney weatherby just served as lead author on a study on how vietnam can meet its cop 26 climate goals through stronger engagement with lao and cambodia now that might be counterintuitive because we often think about meeting your climate goals from a domestic perspective but regionally this can happen too and there's a role for the united states in this as well and part of the solution is is taking vietnam's impressive experience with expanding solar investment within its own borders to these countries of cambodia and laos importing some of that power back into vietnam and that will help with cop 26 commitments but importantly uh choosing the right investments that also pay off for vietnam downstream in the maycong so coming back into the maycong so there are ways to build dams in the maycong that have fewer impacts than poorly sited and poorly built and poorly operation operated dams and vietnam can take part of that solution to cambodia and allows to unlock this opportunity there's a role for the united states in capacity building on how to do this because we struggle with this too how to optimize the the operation of our our own water assets in a way that reduces vulnerability downstream and i think we're going to be dealing with these challenges in a very common way when we think about what's happening in the colorado river basin and we can apply that to the the maycong as well with capacity building with exchanges etc and and also opening another main point of this report is to open lanes for foreign investment in vietnam for power generation assets and i think the united states will have a lot of opportunity there and that can also be transferred to cambodia and laos as well which we know are both wide open for foreign investment and power generation and the final point within the climate spaces and this is getting to sensitivities is that it's not going to get any easier in the climate space this is an area where we can engage but there's an urgency to work within the climate space in southeast asia i noted cambodia's comment about being unable to graduate to middle income country status because of the climate challenge this is a country that produces a good portion of the world's freshwater fish catch the tonle sap lake is responsible for 500 000 tons of fish per year and that's connected to the maycong river that's that is four times as much as what north america's rivers and lakes combined just coming out of that one lake in cambodia and this is a food security guarantor for that country the fishery of that lake is under threat it's under threat by both climate and upstream dams and what the united states has done through the maycong us partnership and through its maycong water data initiative is begun to demonstrate with evidence what the impacts of those upstream dams are to the downstream this is evidence it's sensitive because a lot of it is about china's dam operation but we're getting used to it and we're knowing a lot more about what those dams are doing to the downstream and what how they're impacting the maycong delta and moving from a conversation about sensitivities and controversy about upstream dams to one where data informs planning and decision-making processes that can help us reduce vulnerabilities forecast for the future and reduce some of these food security threats so that's an example i think that we need to work on a final example we need to work work on to demonstrate how data and evidence can drive change coming back to close with war legacies we did that with war legacies right we work together to find the data find the evidence come up with common practices to achieve these impacts let's work together within cambodia los vietnam to deepen those impacts thank you thank you very much brian thank you both really insightful comments and a lot of ideas of how we could build on the us vietnam experience extend to both other countries if you have questions once again cards have been gone around jenny is walking around still so if you didn't get a chance you can go for it we have about six or seven minutes for questions i'm going to turn right to andrew and fire away so yesterday at the un vietnam's elected to the human rights council for the next term human rights is often thought of as an obstacle in us relations with vietnam as well as laus and cambodia you think there are ways this can also be an opportunity and also among the three countries as one question points out the u.s. has historically been more critical in cambodia than in the other countries what does that say about our relations there and lessons that we might draw for democracy of governance dr ru human rights potentially a good contribute rather than just an obstacle uh yes i think that questions is a recurring uh thing uh ain't uh whenever somebody talking about the futures of us vietnam's relations that's also vietnam a u.s. and cambodia relations and human rights issues um that questions reminds me of uh secretary chock hugel yesterday at luncheon i remembered him uh saying that uh in order to um to move forward we rather we we should be focusing on what we can agree rather than what we disagree of course human rights uh advancement is something that is not going to happen overnight but i think when the international community some keep um watching out and and observing human rights practices in these countries is a is a good one that um that signal a strong sense serve us public scrutiny in these countries and i think um that's the one i would like to see um in the coming years also what do you think brian just a thought on cambodia you know i think that that the the world is bracing for a coming watershed moment cambodia politics in the next few years and um and and that is one that um the u.s. can it has to do with huntsons retirement uh and secession and that's one that the u.s. can be ready for um with stronger engagement on civil society uh and and also deepening engagement on war legacies to be better positioned when that happens and better position to strengthen governance and strengthen democratic structures when that happens or we can stick to the humanitarian or human rights discourse that kind of dominates on the hill about cambodia and do nothing until that happens um and so i think there are there are good choices we can make now to lay a foundation for a stronger human rights future for cambodia because it's very likely in the cards thank you second question is about generational change so u.s. relations with vietnam as well as cambodia and laos has been led over the past decades by the veterans and war generation now many of them are retiring and there's a question about transition also among us leaders do you think the younger generation in congress and in the u.s. can continue this process and take leadership on reconciliation and war legacies and actually andrew give us one more if you have it because we only got about two minutes guys one more is about how brian sees vietnamese uh cooperation with cambodia and laos on environmental and energy issues changing in the last few years so young people in vietnam cooperating with its neighbors on energy and environment um i think um to to answer uh before answering these questions i'd like to really uh um compliment and appreciate what the institute in dutch the institute piece has been doing um what they they have been doing is to inspire the young generations who get involved with this one like for the upcoming visits of senator levy's to vietnam we are the the institute is organizing some workshop that involves and with uh many young people students who are um interested in um the developing advancing the relations between vietnam's and the united states i think that's a good one that that i i would be very much welcome some other institutions or NGOs to engage with young people like what the usip has been doing i i i truly believe that an inspired generations of young people will be a great helping hand in keeping the momentum moving forward to be brief i think young congress people uh young people in united states are um you know the hot issues are climate and social justice right now uh and um the war legacies issue at heart is a social justice issue so that is there is convergence if we can educate americans uh about the social justice needs that are created by war legacies issues in cambodia laos in vietnam this is one way to carry the torch and to pass that torch on climate also um the climate challenges to war legacies are only going to increase as stuff gets moved around projects are delayed due to intense storms and prolonged storms and people are moved around into areas where they weren't living before and therefore could be more exposed to to war legacies issues that haven't been addressed so those are two areas where again there's a common challenges common interests that that can be focused on and vietnam has really improved and kind of upped its its foreign policy game with cambodian laos on on energy and and water security over the last few years i think though that there's an urgency to to create some strategic investments uh that that are demonstrative um that you can invest in power generation in laos that will not impact the macong delta downstream and i can draw on two examples of the opposite and i won't go into the details um but instead of investing in projects that do deliver impacts to the downstream uh and this is where the united states and their development partners can come in um identify those particular power generation assets in those other countries you can invest in help those countries grow that that don't impact your environmental outcomes downstream as well oh um we are out of time those very rich discussion i wish i could do about three or four more follow-up questions i want to thank our audience please give our speakers a big round of applause and we will be going to a 30 minute coffee break before the before the next next event um thank you all very very much a lot to build on here thank you thank you


Just for example, problem purposes, we put it on the books here, our 12,000, imagining that that was for a 12-month time period. So now we're just going to say that the policy started in February, let's say the policy started in February, and now we're going to allocate 1,000 for the first month, only February we're going to say has passed. So one month has passed, 12,000 is for 12 months, so 12,000 divided by 12 is 1,000 a month that we're going to allocate. So we're going to consume 1,000, we're not going to have it, we're going to decrease the prepaid insurance directly, not having a contra-asset account. The reason we don't have a contra-asset account is because we know exactly how much has been consumed, as opposed to a building where we don't know how much is consumed, we just basically have to allocate the cost based on an estimate of the value of the building or the car or something like that. Alright, so it's going to decrease prepaid insurance, the other side is going to go to insurance expense, classic adjusting type of entry. So let's go to the first tab, we could do this with a journal entry, with a new and a journal, but because there's only two accounts affected, then we can use the register. So let's do that because the register is an easy thing to do. So we're going to go over to the accounting on the left hand side, remember that if you're in the business view, by the way, the registers in the bookkeeping, the bookkeeping tab, and then the chart of accounts. That's where we're going, that's where we're headed, okay? And then back on over, there's our chart of accounts. Now the expense account isn't something I can use because it doesn't have a register. So I have to use the balance sheet account if I'm going to use this register approach. And the balance sheet account is going to be prepaid insurance. So there it is, prepaid insurance. And I'm just going to use the register and I'm going to enter all of my transactions. This is going to be a journal entry format, journal entry. All of the transactions are as 022823 for an adjusting entry. I'm not going to put anything in for the payee and the memo. I'm just going to put ADJ entry. Now you might put more than that. You might say that you put the term of the policy term dates on when the coverage is covered that might help you with the calculation. So you could put the calculation there, but at the very least, we want to indicate that it's an adjusting entry so that the accounting department and us can know that that's something that was done on the adjusting side of things. It's going to be a decrease of $1,000. And the other side, we're going to have to choose an account. I haven't put anything to the insurance account yet. So I'm going to just type in insurance and see what they have. And this is what they have. They've got insurance and then they put in subcategories, business insurance, liability insurance, property insurance, rental insurance. This is probably a fairly good setup to be using with the insurance to have a parent account of insurance and the different kinds of insurance. If you only have one kind of insurance, like business insurance, then you can just put it into the insurance expense account itself, possibly. And it still gets a little bit tricky even with insurance because some insurances could fall somewhere else, like an auto insurance, possibly. You might put under the subcategory of auto expense or you can put it under the subcategory of insurance. So I'll pick maybe a liability insurance here. Let's pick that one that we're practicing with. This should be 1,000, not 10,000. 1,000, not 10,000. Okay, so that should do it. And so let's save it. Boom.


Well to the North land we go, Nevis hosting Pine River backists this evening. First set, Tigers start fast. Kia High controlling the net with the spike. That'll give them the lead. But the visiting Tigers answer and it's Alyssa Semmler. Get out of the way for the point and get back in it. But Nevis answers again. And it's Montana Baker with the serve. Deflection off the net, just how she drew it up for the ace. But Pine River backists caught fire down the stretch. Gabby Rainwater from the outside. Give her the kill there. Then later they go to Semmler again on the swing play. And she makes quick work of that set for the winner. Pine River backers would win the first shoot. But Nevis wins the final three to come back and win this one three games to two. If you've enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax deductible contribution to Lakeland Public Television.