If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts, Sal DiStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews In this motherfucking episode of Mind That was so vulgar. It was very vulgar for the first 45 minutes of this episode. We do our introductory Conversation talk about the time. I forgot to pick up my kids. Oh man. Yep. That's that panic It's that Delta 8 tetrahedra Good old Delta 8 we talk about the time Adam got kind of pissed off Katrina a little bit by getting Not getting excited by a gift.  I almost got in a fight with hippies this morning at Whole Foods talk about that a little bit We're talking about smelly kerfuffle talk about Doug's Organifi Gold Juice macadamia nut sleep aid Actually, the gold juice is phenomenal to take before bed. It's got natural ingredients in there designed to reduce inflammation and give you a Better night's rest and a taste bomb. We are sponsored by Organifi if you go to organifi.com forward slash mind pump enter the code mind pump you'll get 20% off the gold juice and Anything else in their store then Justin gives us an update about his chicken farm Yeah, we also talk about Justin's night at the opera smelling like cat piss What a great night and Adam and I talk about our workouts I'd also talked about map split and the difference between map split and what I've done in the past You can find map split and mine pump media calm and then we get into the questions The first question was are there any benefits to fasting for a couple hours after a workout? There may be there may be some hormonal changes as well We talk about everly well in that part of the episode if you go to everly well calm You can enter the code mine pump and get a discount off of any hormone test I feel like we mentioned all of our sponsors. We kind of did we mentioned a Jew right? You go to joovv.com forward slash mind pump That is the red light therapy that Adam's using to raise his testosterone I think Justin mentioned butcher box again idea. I couldn't help it butcher box provides quality grass-fed meats to your home Butcher box comm forward slash mind pump you will get free bacon for life Forever hurry up because I'm eating it all ten dollars off your first order and free shipping The next question was what are the benefits of keeping your neat neat stands for non exercise activity? Thermogenesis it's need oh relatively high during a bulk. Are there any benefits to doing so? There actually are we talk about in this part of the episode We also answer the question Somebody wants to know that you know, hey look in order to lose weight You got to be in a caloric deficit, but then we talk about reverse dieting where you increase your calories and Decrease your activity that makes you leaner you guys aren't making any sense Yes, we are listen and we'll teach you how and the final question somebody wants to know why I haven't competed in Bodybuilding yeah, why haven't I done that yet because I look like a bodybuilder, right? Oh, you have all the baseball yeah, I'm like it's not baseball six foot one ninety be the biggest bodybuilder of all time Also one day left. It's the final day Adam. You need to do your final thing final day To get maps anywhere at 50% off we took the total price cut it in half It's at mine pump media.com. We also have bundles is where we take multiple maps programs put them together We have one specifically to help people build a bigger But we have one for these people who want to become awesome athletes But also who want to look like bodybuilders we call it the sexy athlete bundle and then of course we have our super bundle Which is a year of exercise programming we take multiple maps programs. We discount the price It's the best deal you're gonna get on our site. You can find all of those at mine pump media calm So what I was telling you guys is that the vape pen that your brother your buddy brought us What he said it's pure No, Delta eight, so I didn't know this so regular THC well I knew this regular THC is the full name of it is Delta nine Tetrahydra cannabidiol I think or cannabidiol. I believe so know that There's a another version of THC that's Delta eight and it's like two It's like two molecules off or two atoms differently So it's a different version of THC and it's supposed to be a little bit different But maybe not that much and so he's talking to us and saying oh, this one's like super mild and no big deal Yeah, you do this one You're kind of like lifted and you're you know your your appetite gets to me a little bit stimulated a little bit It's better for nausea this that and the other so I'm like, oh, that's interesting. I'll take the Delta eight proves memory THC vape pen I'll give that one a shot. Yeah, and I Hit that thing and and I have a pretty high tolerance to well I guess compared to the average person. It's a high tolerance, but compared to the average pot smokers Probably average or whatever. I'd say so. Yeah, well compared to yeah, you're right Because I don't even think mine's very high. Mine's higher than yours. So so I took a some professionals dude, I took it Let's be honest.  That's all high Yeah, dude laugh, but that's like oh my god. Did you just panic? Well, no, no, because somebody picked them up.  No, dude. I hit it and I was just like, oh my god Where am I so I don't know if it's the strength of the pan that we used or if it's that Delta 8 well I also think you try it man. It's brand new stimulus. I did I just took a couple when we were actually remember we recorded with him like a little pilot marijuana episode and I took a couple puffs. I didn't have very much to you I mean, I was I was nice You know I'm saying that was cool, but I wasn't trying to get like super lifted off of it So I just had a couple puffs off it just but what I could tell right away In comparison to some of the other vape pens that we've messed with is just the purity of it and so this so because it's really pure It's gonna be a lot stronger too. So it's less plant matter It might be that I took a like a big-ass rip.   Yeah, this is gonna be a little bit too much and sure enough five to ten minutes later I love I love when my boy comes to town he comes to drop so you see my little my new kid Oh my god, dude Like you know, it's so funny to treat this shot to Katrina right here. She can get mad when she hears this so If you guys don't know this like I'm the worst gift receiver, right? Just oh, I know this right you guys know that right? I'm terrible. I'm terrible and throw it at you. No, right and Katrina She just like to you don't like to receive I don't I'm just it's an awkward thing for those that have never been not been listening to mine pumps at the beginning There's story behind all that the short version of that is as a kid I numb myself during holidays and birthdays because it was a lot of drama in my family a lot of fighting going on We didn't have money a lot of times during that time So as a kid you you get used to that and you decided you so I numb myself to gift receiving and not care about it Now that I've gotten older and I've had relationships and people get things for me I have this real awkward. It's another awkward thing that I get with when someone gives me something I just I don't have this real authentic response because I've numbed myself for so many years. You just feel awkward Yeah Yeah, and the reason why I feel awkward is because I know they're looking for a response You know when someone you people give you something they like give it to you and they're like looking at you Okay, what do you think? What do you think right? Do you like it? And I'm like, oh cool? I like it You know they're like that's it. No, you don't like really. Yeah, that's that's all I that's cool That's all I get and so the first time that Brian came into town Actually, he sent it over to me and Katrina was there and she saw me open it. I got really excited It's just wait a minute. I thought you don't like gifts. Oh, dude.   Really you get all excited like that.  She's like you didn't get excited about the keychain with the picture of me and you on it Yeah, so I'm actually I'm actually wearing the first gift that Katrina ever purchased me So the purchase for me. So it's this I was gonna say I can I was looking at your clothes and so it's a necklace Yeah, it's a necklace from it's a it's like dog tags from Tiffany, right? And I remember when she got it for me was on New Year's our first New Year's that we spent together and Totally was not expecting gift. This is the first time she buys me something. It's a real obviously a really did you buy her something?  Yeah, Katrina That's my move on New Year's Is that your year is a good tradition. Yeah Some years so successful Most years. I'm not is it yeah, is that because you get a really drunk and it's the sneak attack Part of the process how not to do anal is a sneak attack Determines how the whole rest of the year is gonna play out like no wonder. It's like groundhogs day No wonder it's been terrible.  I mean there's a process to it So yeah, is it a negotiation thing or is it just like I mean it's expected kind of knows it's coming, right? So there's like different strategies every year There's different places locations like timing, you know, I might have to do like build things So do you have an example of like a successful a successful story in a non-successful story?  You know that really does help garbage bags on the floor.  Well, what do you what do you not do then? What what should you not do if you're trying to get anal sex? Get in an argument You know eat Mexican food before you kind of know like as you wake up if it's like if it's that day You know like this is the day like I should I should go for it, you know Anyway, yeah, honestly bro. It's it's literally it's like every day, you know, you just kind of wait out You know, it's it's it's you have to be loose about it. Mmm. Yeah I don't even remember why I was telling the Story this guy took a day New Year's New Year's you get your gift she gives it to you Making sure you're listening so that was the first time that she experienced this at this point We're early on in our relationship. I think we've only been dating a few she say something like why weren't you happy? Oh, yeah No, I totally offended her like she was what you could tell she was like really upset like do it She and later on we talked about this like we're early on in the relationship So it wasn't like she got pissed right then there was like I just bought this guy. I can't I'm sure it's not cheap You know, it's a Tiffany necklace. I saw the box, you know, I'm opening it up So I know it's nice and I really liked it, you know It was something that I would totally wear I wear it still have it and so Just giving you anal Yeah, so I'm terrible at receiving gifts, but for some reason when when somebody gets me Cannabis I tend to get more excited than that than usual. I guess so she's seen that in my she saw that look on my face Oh, especially about the box that he gave you so it's custom So this is this box is like so typically he just puts it in, you know, let me explain what my Drug dealer does here. So he lays out like all the different strains and then they're separated by phenotypes And then they're all jarred out in eights for me So what makes this really great for a connoisseur or smoker like myself? Is it a lot which and I'm always I'm very cautious and careful of you know, my habit of it The same way we talk about caffeine and coffee and things like that if I find myself Using too much of it. It's it's taking it's taking up too much of my life I'm it's I don't care whether it has addictive properties or not the it also loses its the benefits Exactly, so I'm very aware of this one of the ways to to help mitigate this is to rotate through strains And so I have this very organized box that's done and it's everything is top grade So everything's organically grown everything's super top-notch.  And then he custom made it to where the top of it is Designed to grind up and roll on it, which is really cool for me because I don't know how to roll. I don't know how to roll a joint Everybody who hangs out with me makes fun of me because that's like now that a mine pump talks openly about cannabis Probably the number one thing that I get when I meet people is like hey, dude.    You got my Katrina is the official roar So I was really excited to show her the box because I thought she would be really excited because it's got a rolling Platform for her that she didn't have before. Is that why you're wearing the necklace today? I Brought it I brought it out like maybe two or three months ago. I've been I found it and I was like, oh I have a war this so I'm gonna bring it back. I remember the gift. I didn't like I love the gift.   It can be packed and it's just it's a very Poorly organized parking lot, so I'm pulling in and I have exactly Like seven minutes to be able to go in get what I need leave And get here on time and I don't like being late.  Yeah, I did actually did pull an atom So here's what happened. All right, so I pull in to the electric car, you know spot. Obviously my car is not electric Cuz I did get this move from Adam So I pull in I park and there are these two dudes that are like I mean uber hippies like Dreadlocks frickin the nose pierce Yeah, dude like smelling yeah, probably a hundred and fifty pounds combined the two of them and testosterone levels of you know a thirteen-year-old female girl, right? So they're kind of standing there and they're like judging me right automatically by the way There's like ten electric car spaces that are open. All right fuckers So I'm not like blocking the last one and it's not a handicapped place and it's per it is the prince It's a hundred percent legal to do that.  Anyway, that's why I was late Like that's a good excuse. I had to plug in my big guy dude speaking of weed So do you guys know do you guys see what's going on in some of these states right now? They're legalizing cannabis. No, okay, so There was a court. Let me see. I'm trying to figure out where it was. It was a 2000 in 2016 There was a US Circuit Court of Appeals that made a decision on whether or not Medical marijuana card holders should also be allowed to own a gun.    I get what they're trying to do though, right?  Well, they drive it more underground You know I mean they end up driving or watching that happen right now I mean yesterday yesterday when Brian was over here and we were talking to I mean He has this pulse on the business a lot more than I do now. He's in the yeah, right So he's he's right in the thick of it and it's crazy what you're seeing what's happening is It's it's getting the point where it's becoming so competitive that it's scarier shits happening like I was asking him He's saying that theft is becoming really big because the market is gone down so much as far as the price of what you would buy Like a pound of marijuana for didn't he say there was like federal raids that were going on like they're just coming Well, this has been happening since I was right, but that's still like prevalent So what it what's happened is is that they've they've legalized it recreationally, but they've passed so many insane Regulations around it that it's imp. It's almost impossible to follow every single one at any given moment a Sheriff can come in and find one thing that you're in violation of something stupid Yeah And because of that they can shut you down and you're giving these people you're giving the sheriffs and the state and whoever Lots of power and it's it's like that with a look I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about so I had a but I had a client who used to own all these Shop all these grocery stores and shopping centers very very wealthy man and He got hit with three lawsuits from the same Lawyer and what this lawyer would do is he would go inside retail stores with a tape measure He'd go in the bathroom and he'd measure the mirror the distance between the mirror and the sink the doorknob The everything and if it was off by whatever a half an inch or an inch off of ADA compliance, which is the American with Disabilities Act compliance He could take you to court you would have to fight it in court, which would probably cost you a hundred thousand dollars or You could pay him $20,000 and fix it right and so this guy's a muscle tactic this guy's making a shit ton of money going around with a tape measure and saying and Literally he was off like a couple inches here and there and that's because the regulations are so So big and so many of them that's almost impossible to follow all of them I mean, it's crazy how much money costs businesses just to fall in so that's what they've done with the cannabis industry And all they're doing is ensuring that there's a very vibrant powerful black market because right when you hasn't gone away at all Well, I mean, it's like it's almost like some of these legal businesses are also doing black market stuff That was what was going on with when I was there. Yeah.  So if you're what are you gonna do with it?  You're stuck in this weird situation of like what do I do with this? You know eight hundred thousand dollars that I have over my you know the last five months of business What do I do with that? So a lot of these businesses have to figure out how to launder it or how to hide it or whatever to try and make Themselves legal.  You know what? I've got a bone to pick with you motherfuckers. Oh, yeah So today was our day for our organified commercial And I went to get the gold juice that was here in the studio and it's no longer here So which one of you fuckers took the gold? Who do you think? Obviously, I do. Is it you Doug or is it you? Actually, yeah, it's a good call.  Is it you who's taking the last gold juice? I confess I didn't do it. I knew what we should do because I'm with you Adam This is what we should do. Let's add up Let's total a tally of the value of the things that we've taken to our house that we haven't shared with people For example, you took a gold juice. I think it's like 30 dollars some on it equipment Yeah, I took some protein powders and then Adam took the three thousand dollar juice life Yeah, that's right. Yeah, and a few other things. I know you've come in some time I called out bro.     I know, right? Plural blankets. Oh, it's new solar panels Yeah, you know, so I got so many I got so many of them that my dog uses son of some of I make sure all the cool brand new come to my house But if I have to do supplements, I mean men the supplements do not last around here Well, bro addiction with them.  You guys see this guy at convention That's what he was saying. Is that when you normally have a dog? Yeah last night. I take Macadamia milk I put in the gold juice warm it up drink it before bed and I slept like a baby Oh, you I don't need cannabis. Oh Straight narrow path doesn't need it, but he hasn't do you do either one of you guys drink macadamia in that milk? No No, no, no, I love that story exotic what explain the difference between that almond milk Is it as a calorie? I just feel like the flavor is more mild Almond milk has a stronger flavor like a nutty stronger like you could tell it's a nutty coconut milk Yeah, I don't know how I would even describe the flavor. It's just stronger. Tell me what it tells me what it hits your lips Feels like a smooth you describe that for me, please blanket Enveloping your lips Enveloping I got in comfortable Creamy silk look at any of my eyes You know, I would prefer macadamia nut milk anyway because it's it's less Far less common to have an intolerance to macadamia than it does to almond so I've heard a lot of good things about goat milk I've never tried you guys tried goat milk. Mmm. That was a male goat, Justin. Yeah, that was not a female That's not milk. That was very lumpy What's funny we have I was just thinking about this.  Wow, I haven't talked about these little fuckers. Did you eat them?  Did you see it happen or how did that?  I don't know dude They jump really high and like add a little bit of they are birds letter and they figure it out man and so at every time so I'm I'm I'm probably gonna put like a You know ceiling over the top of it to make sure it just doesn't happen at all But yeah, one of them got out Thankfully, it wasn't one of the high producers, you know, it was one of the you know lower-end You know chickens and so but yeah, he'd Chase it all around the neighborhood and there was just this plume of of feathers all over underneath this person's like deck Oh, I was like, oh, no, they never saw the body, but you knew dog. I wonder if you did it Maybe he did. Yeah, dude. I had soup out of it. Would you ever eat any of those chickens? No, are they not to be eaten. They're just I mean I've heard people that do like make a stew out of it But the meat is like really tough after a while like you have to eat them when they're real young and plump and Yeah, it's really creepy. That's be like eating a milk cow. You don't want to eat a milk cow. Really?  Yeah Grizzly Justin would probably taste the best. He's the most organic. Doug looks really juicy still Do you know for his age? He's aged really well doesn't have as much meat though? Yeah on him. That's true Yeah, just be a delicacy. Justin's organic little drumstick. Yeah, Justin's organic You have to pull a hot sauce. I'm more like veal. He's a court.   There's like Snow white which is like our top performer. That's the only one I care about She really puts the eggs out and so I appreciate her There's there's like two two like brown ones and two black ones. So It's like oh, so you're you got to remember you're making sure to keep it. What do you feed them diversity?  What are you giving them? Yeah bugs so bugs and vegetables and then grains so like but the grains all organic There's this place that in scott's valley. That's like a Good feed store that does a lot of organic feed.   Like do you the geek in me would want to do that? I'd be like, let's give him creating. Yeah I'd have blue blockers on them and I would be like make sure they're doing blockers like red light Therapy at night. Yeah, some Juve light going on them for a little bit like maybe I'll steal yours Optimize optimizing ends up barbecuing You know when I'm giving my shots, oh Yeah, I haven't I haven't biohacked my chickens. I'm gonna be honest to you guys But that's you know, that's the possibility bro. I have you have you ever cracked open an egg from a chicken That's like pasture raised or whatever that eats bugs versus just a regular egg Oh, yeah, it looks totally different.  They're they're just a little carnivores. That's cool eating That's awesome. Yeah, I'd like to have some you know, I've always wanted to have chickens But there's a lot of work do involve you how often you feed them every day. Oh, wow. Yeah, of course Even is it like a plant? You know intermittent fast with them Or they're macros Yeah, I don't go into that level bro, but how am I gonna take care of them So how many total you have and how much how many eggs does that realistically produce you like either daily or weekly? We only get like I mean the top day would be like four eggs in a day in a day But like typically we'll have like one to two eggs like, you know, that's not enough So what is what is breakfast like?  Yeah, well, yeah, we kind of wait We we do like every two days or something will have like the scrambled egg thing and but thanks to butcher box You know shout out free commercial here for butcher box I I got bacon and you know and like use burger patties and stuff all eat those in the morning Alongside, you know the eggs so we do a nice. I haven't done the burger patties yet Do you like them? I haven't had them yet. They're delicious. Oh, you have to love them Okay, I'll definitely get on that.  Yeah, and I'm not ready to have like a full-fledged farm This is like a little side now is it is your little coop built to where you can scale more and get have four or five more Is that is it like you maxed out right now and I mean we could probably hold like Maybe like 12 or so but like I have like six, you know, and we just lost one. So Yeah, so we're down but Honestly, I don't know. I feel like I don't know that they're worth all the work Hold on a second. You have five chickens and they're making one to like two or three eggs a day. Yeah He's I feel like they're being lazy. Well, no, he's not he doesn't have them on the right program Dude, he's not a great programmer when it comes to maybe you just squeeze them I feel like he's not putting any effort into it. Yeah, I'm not when we had chickens We were pumping out they were doing a good egg a day for sure. How did you do that per chicken? I think we just took care of massaging. Yeah, we talked to him. We got him. Yeah. No, they feel that I care more about my dog I'm gonna be honest. That's chickens are they probably feel that and that's where they're probably Animals they're seen really. Yeah, there's really done. Yeah, you know, we I'm serious about this now I know I joked around about this before but I really do think we need to get a cat for the for the studio No, bro, we caught how many mice that we catch so many times so far Doug five so far five mice Okay, do you know what that means? There's an infestation. There's a nest. It's probably like right above us Bro, I'm telling you right now, bro.   You don't want to yes. Can we get at least a small dog? That's like I'm not gonna do anything for the for the sure. I think just having an animal around here We'll scare him away. It's like terriers. I think you watch too much Tom and Jerry You think it's got to be a cat. We need a cat. I think a small dog will do Let me tell you why first of all it's not a cat guy cats naturally. That's their natural enemy They don't like each other. Yeah, it goes way back thousands of years goes back to Cartoon cat. Yeah cats and cats and mice Mortal enemies. That's number one. It's just like number two. You don't need to take care of it as much as a dog We can leave him alone do his thing changes little box easy, right? Number three the furry everybody likes furry animals. They're cute.  I don't know why you always make fun of me I Did you have asthma as a kid? No, I didn't do I didn't have any of these issues. Yeah, no allergies Is like rubbing off on me.  I tell you is one time So when we were getting ready for one of my clients is she's a an operatic performer like it's just a world-renowned Opera operatic. Yeah, that's a word. You know, that was a word. Yeah. Thank you Yeah, and so the library invited us to go and me my wife like got really dressed up and yeah And so I have this like tux and everything and I'm getting ready at her her parents house because her parents were gone It was like in San Jose whatever and so this cat was there that was her sisters And I'm in the other room I have my my my shirt was like on top of the door and it was in there And I was getting ready in the other room shaving Come back and I see this like wet mark on the bottom of my shirt and I'm just like oh fuck How'd I get water on this and so I'm like like ironing it and trying to get rid of it whatever and ironed I'd you know, it was gone put the shirt on we get into the performance It was like midway through the performance all of a sudden I started smelling.  There's their territorial. They're marking. It's their pheromones. Yeah. Yeah, they're marking it Everybody was gagging And I was too and I didn't know what to do like I was like all like nice and everything Yeah, I didn't have a good pressure with cats after that skill how old are you and that happens dude? That was not too long before we had kids. Yeah. Yeah. Oh really? It was like eight years ago, but oh, you know, it reminds me that did you just tough it out and wear it or did you go in? Yeah, I sat there dude.   Yes, it's like it's like a skunk Supposed to smell. Yeah, that's what you're telling me. Yes. It's like a skunk bro.  Has that ever happened you Adam? Like maybe if you like came in your pants or something like that Dried little snail line. Yeah, I think I think back in my dry humping days. I might have that might have Teenage boy little pregis thing. Yeah. Yeah, I think there was times like where the girlfriend's parents were gone And then they came right back.    I can remember. Yeah, I don't think I've ever had Yeah, I've told the story on here about my cousin putting on the workout shirt, right? Oh Wait, wait, what did you have? I share that I share it out here That was a long time ago though. I think we talked about that. You have a similar one about that guy in the gym Yeah My cousin was notorious for coming over my house.    Dude he saw it and then just to see him try and get out of that shirt as fast as he possibly could Cuz it never wore my clothes again after that. Oh good for good for that's what he get But I've never I've never had something that I could think of that I never sharded in public and you had to like go the rest of the day with a little bit of wetness Everybody's done that. Yeah. No, I mean sharded to me. That's like go home from work.  Just Right in the trash. Yeah Yeah, these underwear are no good. You're welcome Just commando ball in the rest of the day because you don't want to have that that wetness in there Nobody wants that no not at all. Anyway. How was your training yesterday, dude? You were supposed to what I mean you're gonna have a great workout or something. I am my workouts.  Okay? Deadlift competition again. No, we don't want to do that. We know I'm going for the Ryan Gosling body right now. That's what I told you I was doing.  That's the goal right now and it's going all right Arm candy. Yeah. Yeah, it's going all right right now. I you know this week has been The first week and probably what's been what seven months eight months since the injury that I'm finally starting to fill myself I'm really excited to take the you know, everly well test again because me too, right?   Yeah, dude. That's pretty crazy I really blew there was a I there's part.  I'll do like really bad, you know, it's like it's all up from there Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, no, that's a great sandbagger.  I think that's how you got your wife Do same back right you first time you come out didn't know how to find the hole They know what's going on and it's like then you're knocking out of the park each time after that, right? So no same same concept, but I'm I'm Back into my rhythm. I think I'm finally hitting my stride because my workouts and I hadn't had this feeling yet until just recent where I Feel really good afterwards the workouts Last six months have really been like I need to do this work. It's like I need to do there I know it's yeah, it's like you know, that's a good relationship with exercise. It really is because you're using it You're using it for a different purpose.   Let's get in here. Let's get movement So let's get some of the big lifts so I can see and I notice a difference when I get in there And I would squat or deadlift I mean instantly the next day I could see the difference in my libido even that night that night I could even feel kind of the spike from it And so I was treating it more like that like hey I'm as I'm my hormones are all over the place right now I felt that was one of the things out of all the things we do I mean the Juve light the sauna the Yeah, really, you know, and we're I know we're pro all those things like all those things are beneficial Those are all part of my protocol. They're still accessories. They are that it's nothing Nothing seems to trump the the training and the consistency in that and I finally feel like I'm starting to reap the benefits of that I feel like are you able to get a pump now or you're starting to feel like yeah, exactly No, I feel good like you know before I would I finish a workout and I'd be like oh Guy I'm glad I got it done, but I didn't feel good like I'm getting it done with a workout Yeah, and it's reminding me how I felt before was like oh shit a whole hour already flew by it's time to get out of here Dude, I'm fucking loving the way we wrote split loving, you know what part I'm really impressed with the most is the the unilateral Okay, so the way the road I gotta say this on the podcast so people know what I'm talking about the way We wrote the program in In phase one in particular you're hitting each body part twice a week It is a split, but it's still you're still hitting it with a decent amount of frequency The first workout focuses of that body part for the week Focuses on these you know compound, you know kind of gross motor movement type movements these barbell movements the second workout of The week focuses on unilateral type movements and in not only unilateral type movements But in in different ways for example instead of doing a you can say a dumbbell chest presses Is it somewhat of a unilateral movement because you have independent weights? But the way we designed it would be rather than pressing both weights up at the same time You bring both weights down and you alternate by pressing one dumbbell at a time and I've never done that Consistently I know what the benefits are I've trained lots of clients and I've applied that to lots of clients But I've never applied it to myself Consistently enough to really see what that does and it's very different and it's a completely different feel It's the perfect it's the it's the perfect complementary workout the second time of the week that I'm hitting that body part Mm-hmm, and I can fucking feel it dude I've getting people my body's responding like crazy people always ask us about our programming and how we do things like that This is kind of like the Which are giving this little piece right now is a little bit of the secret sauce like something that we know or that we all Know that we would think I mean who would most people wouldn't put that in right and that's a very and here's that Here's the logic behind that is that if you were to train you know Monday Wednesday Friday, and you were going to do legs and You were to do big compound movements like squatting front squad and then something else on the on the third day That's another big gross motor movement Sometimes and what's common for a lot of people is to probably over stretch themselves or push too hard Throwing in a unilateral movement in there Really it helps regulate that it helps keep you from doing that because if you're doing in some ways It does but in other ways it also challenges different things that are not going to get challenged with the big compound movement Court core stability control time and attention. Yeah time and attention, but it's also from a bodybuilding standpoint You know when I'm doing for example if I do laterals with four shoulders I can do both at the same time try this for yourself rather than doing both at the same time Hold both dumbbells do one at a time It's a different feel looks exactly the same But because you're focusing on one side at a time one muscle first off it promotes Symmetry which is a problem a lot of people are not symmetrical and their strength and performance for sure right one hand is strong on the other One leg is strong on the other but also visually if you really if you really analyze your body Here's a great way to do this by the way. There's absolutely you do this They take your body it'll divide it in half it'll flip them It'll do a mirror image and then you can clearly see like oh There are some imbalances between right and left you're forced to acknowledge the dominance, right? Like you see it visibly like one side versus the other like where the struggles lie where the strengths lie And then just just taking that time to do that and then applying that back into like bilateral situations Like you see okay like where you're contributing a lot more where you can now try and even that out You know that's a really good tip that we haven't talked about in a really long time that I've been asked a lot in my career Is you know, how do you develop or catch up a lagging body part or a muscle and a little small tip and Again talking about the unilateral movements is to start with your less dominant or your weaker side first Yeah, let that lead and if you if you end up going to a point even though we don't recommend going to failure But if you go to a point where that weaker side starts to give out or fail or mechanics start to break down You stop the rep there and you mirror that on the other side Right the mistake that a lot of people make is they do this they do a unilateral movement They do one side they typically you it's natural for you to always gravitate to starting the strong side Even if you're not paying attention you will you typically will do that So you go to the dominant side first you rep out 10 great beautiful hard reps Then you go to the weaker side You know you're already gassed a little bit because you just did the strong side already So you're already depleted a tiny bit and it's your weaker weaker side You get you may get 10 but 8 9 and 10 are kind of sloppy and mechanically breaking down You'd be far better off starting with the weaker side Going to that 8 or 9 stopping there where your where your form starts to copy it and then copy it on the other side And that'll help balance your your that's right But i'm feeling great because of that my gut health is is really really good from the fasting I'm doing the high dose turmeric still which i'm really noticing benefits from Um, you know my body weight is you know about two maybe two or two So i haven't been this having a long time not as lean, but i'm still relatively lean my strength is great I pulled 525 yesterday my arms it just for fun. I measured them throw over 17 inches right now They haven't been that big in a long time.  Yeah, exactly.  Huh? Huh? It's a little guy I always said it was the rip guy. He's big on instagram dude. Don't get me You can't tell with the right angle. That's right. What's that filter vanesha the valencia filter? That's right This clause brought to you by organifi For those days you fall short on getting your organic veggies or whole food nutrition Organifi fills the gap with laboratory tested certified organic superfoods to help give your health a performance the added edge Try organifi totally risk free for 60 days by going to organifi.com That's or gani fi.com and use a coupon code mind pump for 20 off at checkout All right. Our first question is from Xavier sahn 5. Are there any benefits to fasting for a couple hours after a workout? Absolutely. Yeah, well, I do this a lot when I'm cutting before we mention the fasting after a workout Let's talk about the Why it's not necessarily to eat right after your workout. So they've done We've been sold for a long time that post workout There's this what they call what they've coined this anabolic window of opportunity which From a marketing standpoint Brilliant absolutely brilliant. Yeah, because we can sell you some protein shakes Right and what they've done is they've ritualized the use of a supplement Which if you ever want to sell a product and you want to sell a lot of a product You want to you want to include it in a ritual or ritualize it? So like first thing in the morning do this before right before bed do this or And because protein powder sold to the fitness community They've ritualized protein powder whereas before they told you to take a post workout and I know this I was a consumer a fitness consumer for a long time before Company supplement companies came up with the idea of this window of opportunity this anabolic window of opportunity Protein powders were taken whenever they were taken anytime So they'd say to you take this protein powder increase your your intake of protein Throughout the day and what ended up happening was people would just Forget to take it or not take it at all and it was quite common for people to own A jug of protein powder in their house and for it to stay there Yeah, because it was like when do I take it and some people would take it in the morning And they would ritualize it themselves But a lot of people would never take it now when they when they started selling it as You got to take this post workout take advantage of this if you don't then you're not going to build muscle It speeds up recovery. You need the amino acids post workout. You need blah blah blah all these different things People started to attach it to the workouts, which if you're in fitness, that's the number one thing You're gonna do and so they started selling a shit ton of protein powders and then on top of it They would sell faster acting protein. Oh, we really want to take advantage of this window of this anabolic window Then you need protein that is, you know, predigested, you know Super, you know, uh, you can assimilate it faster all these different things So way protein and hydrolyzed way and all these different, you know Formulas came out to try and capitalize on this brilliant marketing. Oh, it's it turned into what is the perfect ratio post workout What gets absorbed the fastest to optimize your muscle growth and it's turned into this huge debate And we're all we're doing is we're really splitting hairs And I think that and I remember when this was when I was competing I used to get a lot of my peers that asked Um, dude, how come you don't get a shake in right off your workout, especially when you're cutting Don't you feel like your body's gonna start to beat eat up muscle and don't you want to make sure? I'm like that fast. No dude. It doesn't work that way. In fact, if you're leaning out I think this is a great time to not eat because what ends up happening Okay, and theoretically what happens is when we train about 80 of your glycogen stores get utilized So obviously that's gonna be there's gonna be all kinds of individual variants and it depends on what you ate before and yada yada yada How hard your workout right, right? But for let's just say for hypothetical reasons your body depletes Most of its glycogen stores, right? But right During your workout So then that other 20 percent, especially if you do what I used to do Which is like 12 or 15 minutes hit afterwards or walk for like a couple miles afterwards I deplete it all the way out and so then the next Optimal place for your body to get energy from is body fat So if you're somebody who's trying to lean out you just trained really hard You're not exercising anymore You're pretty much just kind of walking around or getting in your car and driving back home or Getting taking a shower or doing things with that It actually it would behoove you not to eat anything right now because you're trying to lean out Because what your body's going to end up doing is going to look for another source of energy Which fat is a much better source now the fear and why People and the way they market it to you is to get you to buy the protein powders Because that we're afraid that it's going to start to eat our muscle muscle is a very expensive tissue Your body does not want to use that as fuel It's it's doesn't want to go there at all the likelihood of it going there The the only way that would happen is if you did this You trained You you were you were fast at going into your training session you train hard in a session Maybe you take a break for a little bit and you come back two hours later again And then you train really fucking hard again like now you might be at risk of like utilizing some muscle because you're pushing the body after Everything's been depleted and even then it's it's still not an optimal place for fuel No, and you're again, even what you're talking about is splitting like totally splitting air Ultimately, it's up to how many calories you consume the whole day and a few other things So basically and here's okay Here's here's another reason why consuming right after your workout Not only is really not going to help you, but it may actually harm you inflammation right if you if you are prone to systemic inflammation If you have gut health issues When you're working out your inflammatory markers do rise. This is totally natural Window and that's systemic so this systemic inflammation rises a little bit That means if you already have Gut issues your gut is probably even a little bit more inflamed than it normally is The worst thing you could do is consume food with an inflamed gut because The likelihood that that you're going to have leaky gut where the food Moves through the you know through the gut barrier into the bloodstream and then your body starts to identify that as a Foreign invader and develops its own immune response. And now you've got more food intolerance.  It's not yeah I mean my my buddies were carrying it in their gym bag And as soon as they get there I mean they're barely catching their breath from their lift and they're shuttling it in there as fast as they possibly can That's right. So so and that can become a problem Now as far as recovery is concerned studies have been none of this done on this and they show that regardless of when you eat You're going to replenish your glycogen and repair muscle So it doesn't matter if you have it right after your workout or Four hours after your workout But like adam said the benefit would come from if you're going to have another workout later in the day because then it does make sense to try to replenish Glycogen and amino acids So that you have energy or fuel for the next workout But if you're working out once a day like most people It doesn't really matter If you consume right after the benefits to fasting afterwards Personally the times I recommend people because I usually tell people Eat after your workout don't eat after your workout really doesn't make a big difference It's totally up to personal preference But when I do tell people to not eat is when I have clients who have really bad gut issues when I have people who We're trying to figure out what's going on with them.   So I'm doing that on the bulk now on the cut That's the first meals that I get rid of right away. It's like right Yeah, it's the easiest ones because most of the time when I am training really hard It is sometimes hard to eat food right afterwards So it's like oh this I'll just stretch this out and then I try and challenge myself Actually, how far I can stretch that before I eat the next big Refeed meal and then I eat that nice big refeed meal and then I go take a nice walk for a half hour hour And I find that very beneficial next question is from CMA pasquale What are the benefits of keeping neat relatively high even during the bulk? You know when I was younger because my goal was always to try to gain size and weight I was always worried about burning too many calories outside of my workout. So I would literally Eat a lot lift weights and then Eliminate all unnecessary activity because I was under the assumption that I had to you know, not burn calories So that I could use what I ate to build muscle years later I Started doing a little bit of cardio because I started working out with this buddy of mine And after workouts, he liked to do like these long walks And because he was a cool guy and we'd have these great conversations I started doing this and the walks sometimes would be up to three miles four miles um They were Kind of quick paced and because I was so my cardio vascular was so bad And because we had just finished working out and I was so heavy at these during these periods of time I found that it took a little while to build up the Almost the stamina to be able to do this without being like oh my god I'm walking kind of fast But what I noticed was I actually built more muscle no joke I actually got in the gym had better workouts felt better mobility And just generally felt like I could assimilate my food better and I started to realize that You know Being healthy is a better place to be When you're trying to get your body to adapt in any direction Whether you're trying to get leaner or you're trying to build more muscle you want to be healthy now Can you go too far with this? Absolutely If you push your knee so much that your body's adapting to become efficient like you're doing lots of cardio Well, that's very different But the thing I see a lot of people do especially guys trying to bulk Is they're afraid to do any cardio whatsoever because it burns calories And so what happens is their health is actually their health actually worsens because all they do is lift And then everything else they do is completely sedentary and I'll I've used this example before You could have have the hardest best workouts of your life the best programming in the world and then lay in bed The rest of the day conserve all the calories you want watch what happens You'll actually lose muscle. Well, I think there's a very simple way to look at this I mean The body's got a bunch of different systems the digestive system is just one of those systems One of the ways to optimize that system is to be standing upright and moving If you're sitting down things to move, right? If you're sitting down and you're consuming food and then you're sitting down all the time like That system is not going to be operating optimally And part of the digestive process when you stand up like that gravity pulls down it helps that And you if you're going to be moving blood flow oxygen everything moving around which is just going to help nutrients getting to your muscles It just makes sense to me that This would help help me in building muscle by Eating and then also constantly kind of moving throughout the day not doing cardio pushing the body super hard because now that's a You're not pushing like for hardcore, right? That's a stress picture a bunch of bros like going on these nature walks Seeing the sunset together. That's a future bros though. I'm telling you right now It's like take your bro in a walk. You know Let's make a let's make like a it's like a shirt for that or something Take your bro in a walk No, I think it's just it's a very simple practice for you to do is to just make a habit of getting up walking around doing neat And to me it's just logical that that is only going to make the uh simulation of food Yeah, it's important for digestion. I mean the whole process like you just Your body needs to function like it's supposed to function, you know, whether you're bulking or cutting You know either either or and so we're meant to move and when you start eliminating movement, you know You're prioritizing things things start shutting down and your body naturally just prunes things and so it's not necessarily beneficial for you Even when you're trying to build muscle like it's gonna it's going to show that like your priority for Overall movements going to go down. So now what now i'm not gonna i'm gonna really hold on to these calories and and You know now now like this is going to turn into a different type of tissue Now i've always built more muscle on a bulk When i've done a good decent amount of meat again, it's not hardcore cardio But I notice I notice if i'm sedentary all day i build less muscle. That's the key though The key is that I think there's it's not intensive right and it's who i'm talking to right So i it's it's tough when we answer questions like this generically to a bunch of people like if I have the You know the ectomorph body type kid and he's super active and he's got a twitch and he's constantly moving And he burns 5000 calories and he's having a hard time even consuming 5000 calories And he's asking me how do I bulk at him? You know and I hear you talking about neat should I keep my need up like well No, i'm probably not going to encourage that kid to move even more because he's already having a hard time Hitting what his body needs just to maintain his mass. So but for the most part for the average person Yeah, absolutely keeping your movement up and your need is beneficial Especially if you can keep up with the calories And even and to take it even a step further take that same ectomorph kid take that hard gainer Super skinny kid and if we could just if we could clone him and we had two and we could test this out One of them lifted weights, you know eight x amount of calories and then Eliminated all activity sat down and play video games all day long conserved energy And then we took the other kid and had him do the exact same workout exact same food intake And they also did not crazy amounts of neat, but they were relatively active throughout the day I will argue that the one that's moving is going to build more muscle than the one that does nothing But lift weights once a day you might have a little more mass on one side But how much fat is that in contrast to the other one? You know that might be a little more lean but also built you're just healthier You're just healthier like I don't care what your goal is I don't care how extreme your goal is if you start from a healthy base or at least if you try to be Healthy within that because of course if you wouldn't you start to push your body You have to kind of you have to you know move health aside a little bit, right? If you're an extreme athlete or whatever you're not going to be the healthiest But if you pay attention to it and kind of keep your body running the way it's supposed to You'll your body will adapt better and that's what we're asking for when we're trying to bulk We're trying to adapt by building muscle And so movement is a part of that You know you got to move other than just the weights that you lift, you know once a day Next up is christin amy in one of the episodes with lane norton You say in order to lose weight you must be in a caloric deficit You then go into a reverse dieting discussion Where you're saying calories increased tremendously and activity decreased yet pounds were still shed Why are these two topics not contradicting each other in that second part? So the first part of it is You got to be in a calorie deficit The second part is uh, oh, but then you reverse diet and you reduce Activity and people are getting leaner.  Well Build a muscle you're yeah, we're speeding up the metabolism now It's not as simple as increasing calories and decreasing activity. Okay, it's increasing calories slowly and decreasing total activity Like tons of cardio, but changing the activity to Focus on changing the stimulus the adaptation of building muscle And so in in that case we're speeding the metabolism up and you're not subverting or you're not going around the caloric deficit Law because that is a law. That's a law of thermodynamics.  It has to be it's only transferred. So If your body is burning body fat, it's because you're burning more calories than you're consuming You're in a deficit and the way you create a deficit is either by taking less than you're burning Or burning more than you're taking in and when you reverse diet properly and change your activity properly so that you speed your metabolism up You can you you can create a bigger deficit that way Then by simply cutting calories and just trying to move more Because by moving more you are burning a lot of calories But you're doing it manually and over time your body may adapt to that or try to adapt to that By becoming more efficient with the calories that you are consuming aka Slow it's metabolism that and I've seen this many times I've had female clients that were doing one to one and a half cardio hours of cardio Every single day on top of resistance training every single day Who couldn't consume more than 1200 calories a day anything over 1200 calories? And they would they would gain weight and the reason was even if even if you could consume 15 to 800 That's still really low for that much activity super low And it's why because the type of activity they were doing was was asking their body to become efficient with calories They'd been low calories for so long that their body's like we better become efficient with calories And they just slowed the metabolism down and I've taken those same girls And Over the course of months this doesn't happen overnight because I swear to god if you if you make this change overnight You will get me at massive weight gain But over the course of months I reduce their calorie their the cardio reduce their cardio reduce their cardio And then eventually eliminate their cardio Change their resistance strength so it's total strength and muscle building focused No supersets no circuits none of that you know wad training or any of that stuff It's straight sets bodybuilding muscle building type training and I slowly increase their calories those same girls I'll have a meeting almost 2000 calories and they're leaner and it's not because we We've magically erased a law of physics or countered it. It's because I made their metabolism faster same thing though Same exact thing. It's really it's it highlights though how challenging this is mentally for people to make that switch You know like even even that I think that was a great episode where we we dove into this And I think it was I thought it was a really good explanation of how to do this But still people have a hard time connecting like this doesn't make sense to me You mean to tell me that I'm going to run less. I'm running every day for an hour for weeks Mathematically, you know, it's hard to comprehend how the body, you know, adapts and and really like, you know Changes in this whole process like it's hard for them to kind of comprehend that process So I under this this always comes back up these questions, you know In that whole process of like reverse dieting because you know, I'm going to eat more now and you're telling me that, you know I'm going to eventually, you know, I'm going to lose more body fat You have to shift your goal though Even if your your long-term goal may be to lose body fat or to lean down Your your focus has to change when you're in this place when your metabolism is in this place like if you're If you're a female trying to lose body fat and you're in a healthy place as far as your metabolism So I'll give you an example of that would be You know, if somebody who's a 165 pounds or so and she needs to lose 20 pounds But she eats 2800 to 3000 calories And it's like that's I can take that client and I could just start to cut calories make better choices start lifting weights and And we could just start to shred body fat But that that's not the case normally what I get Is somebody who's 160 pounds needs to lose the same amount of weight But is only consuming 13 to 1500 calories and is already trying has been trying to do that on their own for a long time And their method of doing that is by running it off And what they've done is they've they've now trained their body You've told your body to get efficient at that and it's now adapted that person You know in order for us to get a healthy metabolism and then eventually go back to this cutting calorie thing We have to shift our focus our shift. Our focus is no longer. Let's lose that weight right now Let's repair your metabolism one of the best ways for us to repair that metabolism is to Reduce the cardio to little to none start to increase your strength training while you're slowly starting to increase calories And then you can come back and start to reduce calories makes it so much easier Right and or add some sort of cardio in there, right and we have to be careful too And I mean the terms we use damage metabolism repair the metabolism The reality is your metabolism is working the way it's supposed to it's not broken I mean you can go in such a you can go down a path far enough to where You do have hormonal issues and you do start to cause problems But for most of these cases really it's it's doing what it's what it's designed to which is adapt And it's trying to become more efficient It's trying to make your body run on less Because you're telling it to you're telling it that hey, I'm going to move a lot all day long and The kind of movement that I'm doing doesn't require lots of muscle and strength And I'm feeding myself very little so your body's like, okay We need endurance doesn't require lots of muscle excellent and this person's not eating much.  It's becoming a hybrid So your body's doing what it's supposed to but you can change that To do the opposite as well and it always blows me away when I see people do this Jessica's a great example. This is my girlfriend. We were looking at her her How she used to eat before and how she eats now and it's crazy She used to do seven to eight hours of cardio a week and she was consuming about 12 to 1300 calories Now she does no cardio and the girl consumes like 2300 calories a day and is leaner She's actually like 12 or 13 pounds lighter than she was before it always blows me away You want to build yourself a gas guzzling v12 is what you want?  We would want to be more thrifty We'd want to be more efficient But in the context of modern life a faster metabolism is probably You're probably better off Next up is tristan nader sal. Why haven't you competed in bodybuilding or physique? This is an amazing question. Yes, he's uh, he's pretty much you are a fanboy in everything Explain yourself. He's just an instagram model. Yeah, I'll tell you what there's got one angle There's two reasons. There's two reasons why one because we don't want to have two physique competitors on it. No, I'm just kidding You know what honestly one of them is I wouldn't do very well I know what it would it takes to compete at that level and or to compete at any level and how you look and all that stuff I don't have that kind of physique But really the second the second reason is the main reason I've never had a desire ever to flex and pose or to stand And have people judge my physique on a stage I've just I've never I've never ever ever had that that inclination if I was ever going to compete in everything that anything that had to do with You know muscle building it would be something where I had to lift something like I would want to like Show what I could do rather than like show what I look like. It just never felt It wouldn't feel good. You know what I mean to stand on stage and be and I'm not criticizing anybody who does this I respect it and I I appreciate it when other people do it But for me, I'm not even talking, you know, I'm not even expressing myself I'm just standing there while people are looking at me going this looks good. That doesn't look good This ew, you know, like like that's it's such a weird thing, you know, when you think about it from that perspective For me it is, you know Well, you also touched on something that I think it's important that I find really funny that people still don't believe me when I talk about this That, you know, we just we none of us in this room actually have a men's physique type of body type Doesn't mean that one of us couldn't fucking work really hard at it and present and get up there and actually compete with people That was the point of why I did it right was to show that Even somebody with That don't have that doesn't have superior genetics for the sport could still put the work in it and still get up there and still hang with Some of the best the best But by no means do I think I have that nor do I think either my my co-host Have the physique physique to do that and you're an all natural guy. So you're not looking to Get on anabox which would absolutely help you if you were trying to Shape your body out of its unnatural look already. So I think that It's it's it's funny when you when we look at uh bodybuilding We just we don't look at the same way that we look at every other sport And you know, this is because you're not getting out there and you're not hitting somebody and you're not training Like a normal athlete, but there are some similar rules that do apply to this as as a sport and that is like There are specific body types that are going to do better in that sport doesn't mean that somebody else You know, it doesn't mean like a Rudy can't come in and be a football player Does it mean that he did but it does it does mean though that he's at a disadvantage in the average person Well, I can get like I get why some people do it, you know, maybe there's a lot of people who do it Who obviously never do very well most people right most people who compete On stage don't do very well. They don't have the they don't have the right genes the bone structure Maybe they have the wrong training diet, you know, whatever, but I get why they do it It motivates them. They love the the training and the dieting and all that stuff for it. They love The prep and I get all that and I actually enjoy the dieting aspect of it because of the challenge But I just wouldn't want to ever get on stage now. I you know, I've I've done it before I've tested how Shredded in how dialed in I could get my body and I did it when when we maybe you should repost some of your old pictures so people could see that because people may not know that because to me That is that that's the part that I was the most addicted to right that I enjoyed like I absolutely Loved the science of dialing myself into that level bringing myself into a sub 3% body fat timing it For a certain day, but the actual getting up on stage and prancing around that shit.  I was trying to present or trying to bring a better physique every good turn around, dude You're so hard on yourself Well, I could I couldn't turn up. What is it left? I was an ambi turn. Yeah, no, you were not a bi turner No, but I um I did it for the first maps progress when when when I wrote maps anabolic You know Doug and I got together and talked about like, okay, how are we gonna? Market this program nobody knows who you are except for the local community I'd run gyms and stuff and people in the gym industry kind of knew me but other than that I had no authority.    It's just the bottom line They're not gonna listen to what you have to say They're not going to want to hear it at first and so I said, okay I need to break through that right I need to break through that so I knew that there's no way I'd play the size game I was I'm natural and I'm I'm not gonna push my body that way anyway And I can't anyway even if I was to go on gear I could take all the gear in the world and I would never look like You know, you would never look at me and be like, oh my god, that guy's fucking massive Just wasn't gonna work So I'm like I'm gonna play the shredded game because you know, I have a I can get shredded I know I know how to read my body very well I didn't by the way, I didn't track when I did any of this I did this very much on an intuitive basis Watched my body watched our respond to change my diet on a day-to-day basis And I knew I could get shredded and I also have this quality where My muscles get certain parts of my body get very strided at higher body fat percentages So I told Doug I'm like my goal is to get so shredded six shredded that people Will look at that and then that'll stand out and so and that's what I did And I actually got I was a lot of fun and that during that period of time That's when Adam and I were in contact with each other and we talked shit to each other Because I think he was getting ready for a show That was I was almost getting ready for my first show The same time you're cutting down for the photo shoot Exactly and and I did I got super I don't know what my body fat percentage was at But I had you know veins in my abs and strided glutes and the whole deal And we took pictures and it was pretty awesome And I enjoyed that whole process But never ever ever in a million years have I ever considered Like standing on a stage and getting you know judged by my physique Far more likely to do a powerlifting event, you know arm wrestling jiu-jitsu Something like that But yeah, I've talked about doing another one We'll see maybe one day I'll do another one Maybe when I turn 40 it'll be like a cool 40 thing to do Get out there and see if I can still compete at 40 years old That'd be awesome Check this out We have a bunch of free guides We have a guide on building your calves, building your legs, getting a good midsection We have a guy that teaches you about the proper way to do high intensity interval training We got like 12 guides, they're all free Go to mindpumpfree.com Get one or get all of them doesn't matter, will cost you nothing Thank you for listening to Mind Pump If your goal is to build and shape your body Dramatically improve your health and energy And maximize your overall performance Check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic Maps Performance and Maps Aesthetic Nine months of phased expert exercise programming Designed by Sal Adam and Justin To systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos The RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin As your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price The RGB Superbundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee And you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com If you enjoy this show Please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes And by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family We thank you for your support And until next time This is Mind Pump


Live from New York City, it's theCUBE. Covering CyberConnect 2017. Brought to you by Centrify and the Institute for Critical Infrastructure Technologies. Okay, welcome back everyone. This is a live CUBE coverage here in New York City at the Grand Hyatt Ballroom. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Dave Vellante. This is CyberConnect 2017, the inaugural conference of a new kind of conference bringing industry and government practitioners together to solve the crisis of this generation, according to General Keith Alexander, who's on stage earlier. Our next guest is the CEO of the company that's underwriting this event, Tom Kemp, co-founder and CEO of Centrify. Congratulations, Tom, we met, we saw you last week, came in the studio in Palo Alto. Day one is coming to a close. Great thing. Yeah, it's been amazing. We've had over 500 people here. We've had, we've been webcasting this. We have 1000 people and of course we got your audience as well, so that clearly over 2000 people participating in this event. So we're really pleased with the initial first day turnout. So obviously this is like a new kind of event, a little bit different than most events in the business. Responses have been very well received, sold out, packed house, getting room only. I couldn't get a chair, strolled in a little, not late, but I mean, towards the end of your keynote, this is the dynamic, this demand for this. Why is this so popular? You guys had a good hunch here. What was been the feedback? Well, it's been, well the feedback's been great, first of all, but the reality is, is that organizations are spending 10% more per year on security, but the reality is the breaches are growing 40 to 70% per year. So no matter how much money they're throwing at it, the problem's getting worse. And so people are, for the most part, kind of throwing up their hands and saying, how can we rethink security as well? So I think there's just a complete hunger to hear best practices from some of the top CISOs, from, you know, we had US Bank CISO, we had Aetna, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, et cetera. What are these guys doing to keep their data secure and make sure that they don't make headlines? So I want to ask you a question on the business front. Obviously we saw last week, Alphabet, aka Google, Twitter and Facebook, in front of the Senate committee, around this influence thing going on with the media. It's still an exploit, but a little bit different than, you know, payload-based stuff that normally is seen with security hacks. Still relevant, caused some problems. You guys have been very successful in Washington. I'm not saying you're lobbying, but as a startup, you ingratiated yourself into the community there, took a different approach. A lot of people are saying that the tech companies could do a better job in D.C. and a lot of times, Google and these guys are treacherous with data. They're trying to figure it out. You took a different approach and the feedback we heard on theCUBE is working. You guys are well-received in there. Obviously the product's good timing to have an identity solution and zero trust philosophy you have. But you did something different. What was the strategy? Why so much success in D.C. for Centrify? Well, we actually partnered with the IT folks and the security people. I mean, we actually spent a lot of time on-site talking with them and actually we built a lot of capabilities for what the government was looking to address from an identity access security perspective. That's just the reality of the situation. And so we took the long haul view. We've done very great in the, two of our largest customers are intelligence agencies, but we actually have over 20% of our sales that goes to the federal government, state and local as well. So you really can't just go in there, spend a lot of money and do a lot of hype. You actually have to roll up your sleeves and help them solve the mission. They call it the mission, right? They have mission and you got to be focused on how you can address them and work with the technologist out there to make sure. So it was just really just blocking and tackling the ground game that got us. The common sense sounds like just do the work. Yeah, do the work, really listen and think about it as a multi-year investment, right? I mean, in a lot of startups that just like, oh, can't get the sale move on, right? But you actually have to realize, especially in security, that most tech companies that have a big security presence, they should get 15, 20% of their business from the U.S. government. That's a big bet for you guys. Were you nervous at first? We obviously have confidence now looking back.   You got to get FIP certification. You got to get common criteria. In the cloud, you got to get FedRAMP and that means you also have to have customers in the federal government approve you and bring you in and then you have to go through the lengthy audit process and we're actually about to get our FedRAMP certification just past the audit and that's going to be coming out pretty soon as well. So yeah, to go get common criteria to get FedRAMP, you have to spend a million dollars for those types of certifications. At the same time, working with the large federal agencies. So Tom, you gave us the numbers, 10% more spending every year on security, but breaches are up 40 to 70%. You said in your talk, it's $2 trillion and lost dollars, productivity, IP, et cetera. So obviously it's not working. You've mentioned another number of folks in here talking today. What's their mindset? Is their mindset, this is a do-over or is it just we got to do a better job? I think we're getting to the point where it's going to be a do-over and I think first of all, people realize that the legacy technology that they have have historically focused on premises, but the world's rapidly moving to the cloud, right? And so you need to have cloud-based scale, a cloud-based architecture to deliver security nowadays because the perimeter is completely going away. That's the first thing. And I think there's also realization that there needs to be big data, machine learning applied to this. And you guys talk about this all the time, the whole rise of big data, but security is probably the best vertical. Big data application. Exactly, it's probably the best vertical because you need real-time instantaneous, should I let this person come into the system or not? Or over time, does this represent malicious activity as well? So I think people are realizing that what they've been doing is not working. They realize they're moving to the cloud. They need to adopt cloud, to not only secure cloud, but have the technology be based in the cloud and they need to apply machine learning to the problem as well. And so you talked about a paradigm shift which I inferred as a mindset shift and how security practices and technologies should be applied. You got a lot of content in there, but can you summarize for our audience sort of the fundamentals? Well, the first fundamental is that the attack vector has completely changed. Before it was all as about vulnerabilities that someone hadn't patched this latest version of Windows, et cetera. Those problems are really solved for the most part. Occasionally it kind of pops in now and then, but for the most part enterprises and governments are good about patching systems, et cetera. You don't hear it about SQL injections anymore. So a lot of those problems have been resolved. But where the attackers are going, they're going after the actual users. And so I know you had the Verizon folks here on theCUBE. And if you look at the latest Verizon data breach report, eight out of 10 breaches involve stolen and compromised credentials, right? And that has grown over the last few years from 50% to 60% now to over 80%. Look at the election, right? You're talking about all this Twitter stuff and Facebook and all that stuff. It's John Podesta's emails getting stolen. It's the Democrats' emails getting stolen. And now that people have the Equifax data, they got even more information to help figure out what your passengers are. The social engineering is a big theme here. Absolutely. They have this data out in the dark web.  So there's influence campaigns going on that are influencing through social engineering.  Well, there's that. And then there's nation states. There's insiders. So the reality is, is that it turns out from a security perspective that we, the humans, we're the weakest link in this. And so yes, there needs to be process. There needs to be technology. There needs to be education here as well. But the reality is that the vast majority of spend on security is for the old stuff. It's like we're trying to fight a land war in Asia. And that's how we're investing. We're still investing in M1 tanks in security. But the reality is that 80% of the breaches are occurring because they're attacking the individuals. They're either fooling them or stealing it by some means or mechanisms. And so the attack vector is now the user. And that's this, and people are probably spending less than 10% securing the users, but it represents 80% of the actual attack vector. Talk about the general. You've had some one-on-one times of them giving a keynote here, gave a keynote this morning. Very inspiring. I mean, I basically heard him pounding on the table. If we don't fix this mess, we're going to be in trouble. It's going to be worse than it is. Think differently, almost reimagining. His vibe was almost about, let's reimagine, let's partner, let's be a community. What else can you share with your interaction with him? I know he's very rare to get to speak. But running the cyber command for the NSA, great on offense, we need work on defense. What have you learned from him that industry could take away? Yeah, I think you hit it, which is, and I didn't realize that there's a bigger opportunity here, which is that in real time, there needs to be more sharing among light constituents. And so, for example, in the energy industry, these organizations, they need to come together and they need to share, not only in terms of roundtables, but they actually need to share data. And it probably needs to happen in the cloud where there's the threats, the attacks that are happening in real time need to be shared with their peers in the industry as well. And so, and I think government needs to also play a part in that as well. Because each of us, we're trying to fight the Russians, and the Chinese and the North Koreans, et cetera, and a enterprise just can't deal with that alone. And so, they need to band together, share information, not only from an educational like we have today, but actually real time information. And then again, leverage that machine learning, that artificial intelligence to say, wait a minute, we've detected this at other of our peers. And so, we should apply some preventative control to stop it. And check us at the center of the government transformation, more than ever, and we're seeing, I mean, again, I just Twitter, Facebook, and Alphabet in front of the Senate, watching the senators kind of fumbling with the marbles, you know, what's Facebook again? I mean, the magnitude of the data and the impact of these new technologies, and with Centrify, the collision between government and industry is happening very rapidly, okay? So the question is, is that, you know, how are you guys seeing this going forward? Is it going to be, you know, the partnership has to come together faster, or will more mandates come in regulations, which could stifle innovation? So there's this dimension going on now where I see the formation of either faster partnership with industry and government, or, hey, industry, if you don't move fast enough, go regulations. That's also what the general brought up as well, is that if you guys don't do something on your own, if you don't fix your own problems, right, then the government's going to step in. Actually, that's what's already starting to happen right now, that if Facebook, Twitter, all these other social networks are not going to do something about foreign government's advertising on their platform, they're going to get regulated. So if they don't start doing something, so it's better to be in front of these things right here, the reality is that, yes, from a cybersecurity in terms of protecting users, protecting data, enterprise needs to do more. But you know what, regulations are starting to already occur, so there's a major regulation that came out of New York with the financial services that a lot of these financial firms are talking about, and then in Europe, you've got GDPR, right? And that goes into effect, I think, in May of next year, and there's some serious fines. That could be up to 4% of your revenue as well, while in the past, the kind of the hand slaps that have happened here.  You're going to run from there, Europe.  What have you heard here from talk, shares? Because we didn't have a chance that we'd been broadcasting all day. Share some highlights from today's sessions after Jim from Atno is on there. Which I'm sure you've got a kick out of his history comment.  I think, weren't you a history major? I was a history major and computer science, you got that right. You'd be a great data scientist by today's standards. But he had a good point, civilization crumbles when there's no trust. Yeah. That comment, he made that interesting comment. So it's interesting what Atno has done from his presentation was they've invested heavily in models, they've modeled this. And I think that kind of goes back to the whole big data. So I think Atno is a head of the game and it's very impressive what he's put forth as well. And just think about the information that Atno has about their customers, et cetera. That is not something that he wants. But he was also saying that he modeled, you don't model for model's sake because stuff's going on in real time. You know what I'm saying? So the data lake wasn't the answer. I think that was- Well, he said his mistake was, so they were operationalizing the real time, security, big data activity. And he didn't realize it. He said that was the real answer. Not just sort of analyzing the data swamp. Yeah, absolutely. That was the epiphany that he realized. He was, you know, that is where the opportunity was. And it was unconventional tactics too. So what can businesses expect, Tom? What's the business outcome they can expect if they sort of follow the prescription that you talked about and sort of, you know, understand that humans are the weakest link and take actions to remediate that. What kind of business impact can they have? Yeah, so we actually spent, we spent a lot of time on this and we partnered with Forrester, a well-known analyst group, and we did this study with them and they went out and they interviewed 120 large enterprises. And it was really interesting that one group, group A was getting breach left and right and group B, about half the number of breaches, right? It was, and we were like, what is group B doing versus group A? And it had to do with implementing a maturity model as it relates to identity, which is first and foremost, implementing identity assurance, getting, reducing the number of logins, delivering single sign-on multi-factor authentication, which we should all do as consumers as well. Turn on that MFA button for Twitter and your Gmail, et cetera. Then from there, the organizations that were able to limit lateral movement and break down, make sure that people don't have too much access to too many things as well. And there was an incident with Society Generale that there was a back-end IT guy, he became a trader. He started making some losses and so he tried to, he doubled down and he leveraged the credentials that he had as a former IT person to continue trading, even though he kind of turned off all the guardrails right there.  When he made that move into that new position, so there's just too much lateral movement allowed. And then from there, you got to implement the concept of lease privilege and then finally you got to audit. And so if you can follow this maturity model, we have seen that organizations have seen significant reduction in the number of breaches out there as well. So that was another thing that I talked about at my keynote that I presented this study that Forrester did by talking to customers. And there turned out to be a significant difference between group A and group B in terms of the number of breaches as well. And that actually tied very well with what Jim was talking about as well, which was, I called a maturity model, he called it just models as well. But there is a path forward that you can better be smarter about security. There's a playbook. There is a playbook. There's a playbook, absolutely. And it revolves around not having a lot of moving parts where human error, and this is where passwords and these directories of stuff out there are siloed. Is that right? Did I get that right? So you want to level. Yeah, that's the first step. I mean, the first step is that we're drowning to see a passwords, right? And we need what's known as identity assurance. We need to reduce the number of passwords. And with the fewer passwords we have, we need to better protect it by adding stronger authentication, multi-factor authentication, the new Face ID technology, which I've been hearing good reviews about coming from Apple as well. I mean, stuff like that and saying, look, before I log into that, yes, I need to do my thumbprint and then take, look at, you know, do the old Face ID, right? And multi-factor authentication, things are good point, and also known as MFA. Exactly. That's not two-factor, it's more than one, but two seems to be popular because you get your phone. Multi-factor, I mean, could be device, IoT device, card readers. Starts getting down into other mechanisms. Is that right? Yeah, absolutely. It's something you have and something you know, right? Answer five questions. Yeah, but you don't, but at the same time, you don't want to make it to, Too restrictive. Too restrictive, et cetera. But then here's where the machine learning comes in.  If the access is coming from the corporate network, odds are that means that person was bad, got through. So maybe you don't ask as much for much information to actually allow the person on right there. But what if that person was, five minutes ago, was in New York and now he's trying to access from China? Well, wait a minute, right? Or what if it's a device that he or she's never accessed from before as well? So you need to start using that machine learning and look at what is normal behavior and what deviates from that behavior and then factored into the multi-factor authentication. Wow, we've seen major advancements in the last couple of years even in fraud detection. In real time. And is that seeping in to the enterprise? Well, it should. I mean, that's the ironic thing is, is that with our credit card, I mean, we get blocked all the time, right? It is annoying sometimes. But you know, at the end of the day, you say, yeah, thank you for doing it. And so that's in effect, the multi-factor authentication is you calling up the credit card company. Ironically, my credit card, maybe I shouldn't reveal this too much information. Someone will hack me. But I use US Bank right there and we had Jason, the CISO of US Bank right there. But you know, calling in and actually saying, yes, I'm trying to do this transaction represents another form of authentication. Why aren't we doing similar things for people logging on to mission critical servers or applications? It's just, you know, it's just shocking. So I got to ask you a personal question. So you mentioned history and computer science. A lot of security folks that I talked to, when they were little kids, they used to sort of dream about saving the world. Did you do that? Well, I definitely want to do something that adds value to society. So, you know, is this not like the Steve Jobs telling, was it scullied? Do you want to make, you know, sugar water and all that stuff? So I, you know, I- No, but like superhero stuff? You went to that as a kid? Well, I- DC or Marvel. Good versus evil, right? No, I- No, don't ask that question. Exactly. You like them both.   Yeah, the serious business. Yeah, you're in serious business.  Look at, look what happened to EquipFacts when there was announced the breach. Their stock went down 13, 14%. Chipotle went down by 400 million. The market cap went. I mean, so nowadays, if you have a, if there's a breach, you've got to short that stock. Yeah, and security is now part of the product because the brand image, not just whatever the value is in the brand and the product, the brand itself is the security.  Absolutely. If you're known for being breached, who the heck's going to, who's going to bank with you? There's a whole number of strategy there. Okay, final question for me is this event, what are some of the hallway conversations? What's notable? What can you share for the folks watching? Some of the conversations, the interests, the kind of people here. What was the conversations? Yeah, I mean, the conference, we really did a great job in working with our partner, ICIT, of attracting C-level folks, right? So this was more of a business focus. This was not, you know, people gather around a laptop and try to hack into the guy sitting right next to them as well. And so I think what has come out of the conversations is a better awareness of, as I said before, it's like, you know what, we got to completely, we got to step back, completely rethink of what we're trying to do here as well. Because what we're doing now is not working, right? And so I think it's, in effect, we're kind of forcing some soul searching here as well. And having others present what's been working for them, what technologies, cloud, machine learning, the zero-trust concept, et cetera, where you only, you have to assume that your internal network is just as polluted as the outside. I know this might be early, but what's the current takeaway for you as you ruminate here on theCUBE, that you're going to take back to the ranch in Bello Alto or in Silicon Valley? What's the takeaway personally that you're now going to walk away with? Was there an epiphany? Was there a moment of validation? What can you share about what you're going to walk away with? And there's just a hunger. I mean, there's just a hunger to know more about the business of security, et cetera. I mean, we're just, we were amazed with the turnout here. We're pleased with working with you guys and the level of interest with your viewership. Our webcast, I mean, this is, for the first time event to have both in-person and online, well over 2,000 people participating. That says a lot that there's just a big hunger. So we're going to work with you guys. We're going to work with ICIT and we're going to figure out how we're going to make this bigger and even better because there's an untapped need for a conference such as this. And a whole new generation is coming up through the ranks. Our kids and the younger new millennials, whatever they're called, D or letters they're called, they're going to end up running the cyber. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And so there just needs to be a new way of going about it. Tom, congratulations on a great event. You guys got a lot of credibility in DC. You've earned it. It shows the event, again, good timing, lightning in the bottle, the CyberConnect inaugural event. Cube exclusive coverage in Manhattan here, live in New York City at the Grand Hyatt Ballroom for the CyberConnect 2017, presented by Centrify. I'm here with the CEO and co-founder of Century Tom Camp, I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, more live coverage after this short break. Great.