It has become incredibly clear that vegans don't seem to value the lives of fellow human beings over animals. If that was the case, why are there so many vegan babies and children that are being malnourished, hospitalized, even killed by these brainwashed lunatics, aka the majority of vegans? How can these people be truly convinced that these animals are so important? It doesn't really make sense to me, especially considering the majority of food that vegans eat does cause harm in some way. When you have to grow any sort of crop, any plant, you have to spray massive amounts of herbicides and pesticides, killing millions, trillions of insects, bugs, displacing animals, killing millions of rodents, smaller animals as well, that vegans don't really seem to care about. None of this makes sense. The vegan diet, when you look at it for any reason you would follow it, doesn't make sense, especially from a moral perspective, let alone a health perspective or an environmental perspective. Everything they talk about is wrong, yet babies, children, one of the most sensitive topics to bring up are suffering at the hands of these people, and no one seems to be caring about it. All the vegans do is say, oh, you didn't do the vegan diet right. Really? Is that a solution? No, that is not a solution, because very clearly evident by the amount of craziness that goes on in this ideology, something needs to be done. A 20-month-old girl was found severely malnourished, suffering from rickets, usually a vitamin D deficiency. She looked like a three-month-old and had no teeth. The baby could not perform basic physical actions and was incredibly developmentally delayed. My sister is unfortunately mentally disabled. I'm actually a triplet, and you guys might get to meet my brother and my sister tomorrow, but the point is, I believe the reason that my sister is disabled is because of the lack of nutrition during developmental stages.  People really need to be educated on nutrition and the importance of animal foods in our diets. The child suffered from having to take so many blood tests. She cries when she goes into a medical room. Her weight has become disproportionate to her height, meaning this baby was obese, yet starving. Pretty much what happens to all Americans now. It's an indicator of caloric nutrition in the diet without adequate vitamins, minerals, as well as protein for growth. The craziest thing about this? This poor child had two older brothers that are now in government care that were on vegan diets. This is unbelievable. It's amazing. These people were not put in jail already and still allowed to reproduce. These people are living in some nice house in a suburb driving a BMW, yet Frankie Boy is sitting here funded by the meat industry driving a 2003, 2004 Taurus. That's a whole different story. There were well over 15 articles on this. If you just Google vegan baby, most of them Australia and New Zealand publishers. It's a little bit interesting how America isn't really covering this, ladies and gentlemen. Who knows what's going on? Maybe it's because this was occurring in Australia, but hey, the mother was allegedly suffering from depression as stated by her lawyer. I wonder if the depression was from her vegan diet. A little bit unusual. We see all of these vegan ladies on YouTube become depressed and have hormonal issues. The court documents show the toddler's mother told doctors her daughter would generally have one cup of oats with rice milk and half a banana in the morning. A piece of toast with jam or peanut butter for lunch. And for dinner, she was offered tofu, rice or potatoes, but she said the girl was a fussy eater, so she might just have oats again. Basically, this child was eating pure carbohydrates in the forms of grains, not really getting adequate nutrition. But hey guys, whole grains are heart healthy. This diet resulted in severe deficiencies, nutrients across the board for the infant, including a lack of calcium, phosphate, vitamin B12, vitamin A, iron and zinc. These were the nutrients stated by the article. The baby was essentially deficient in every single fat soluble vitamin. And regardless of this baby's diet and the baby being deficient, most babies are deficient anyway in a lot of these vitamins. They're not getting optimal amounts. You know, there's a difference between deficiency and getting what you need to grow optimally. The baby's levels of vitamin D were abysmally low. They were actually undetectable. And this is probably the reason she had rickets and wasn't developing properly. If you don't have fat in the diet, if you don't have certain animal nutrition, you're not going to be able to assimilate vitamin D3. That means that your body isn't going to be able to mobilize calcium. Vitamin D is required to mobilize calcium. Then you need vitamin K for bone growth, which this child was clearly not getting any of. The girl's condition was only brought to attention to doctors as of March last year. The doctors attended the infant after she suffered a seizure, seizures likely related to incredibly horrible B vitamin deficiencies. This is something that we've actually talked about in that male model video. He had a seizure as well. These vegans are really underestimating the importance of vitamin B12 and I've said this so many times. A vegan diet is so great, but make sure to take your B12 shots. That's going to be my new motto because you don't hear the latter part. You don't hear vegans spouting about how important B12 is. The infant had fractures throughout her tiny body. Her bones were so brittle doctors believed they could have been broken by normal handling. Imagine you see this poor baby and you try to pick her up and help her and she literally just crumbles apart in your hand. It's absurd. The girl had little documentation, no medical records after she left the hospital in 2016 after being born in good condition. What drives me crazy is this baby was found weighing less than what some babies are born at. There's such a huge variance in the weight babies are born at. Why don't people look at that and say, a heavier baby is healthier? Obviously, a heavier baby is healthier. Why aren't we trying to figure out how to make babies heavier? It's obviously related to nutrition and also time of year. There's so many things wrong with our modern society and so many things that are overlooked. I've probably thought of that before, the birth weight correlating to nutrition in the diet, but the only way I thought about it was bringing it up in a conversation like this. Why is no one talking about this stuff? The mother had a water birth and discharged herself just three and a half hours after delivery. She returned for a postnatal check three days later. But from then on, the mother refused a newborn screening, a hearing check, telling the doctors she would rather have her general practitioner do them, but she never saw her general practitioner and was kind of not in contact with any medical authorities whatsoever. The father told family and community services. The couple did not want to put her through immunizations as it was hard on the baby. They didn't want to put her through immunizations, yet they weren't giving the child basic nutrients required for life. A little bit contradictory. The hospital staff initially respected the parents' wishes to keep the infant on a vegan diet, but then grew concerned when the mother outlawed soy because it was full of hormones. I mean, there is some truth to this, but it's better to have a baby survive and have bone structure more similar to a female like me. The shape of my chest, the shape of my hips, my upper body, my skeletal structure is much more feminine because I was personally fed a soy formula. And my sister that was fed a soy formula has always had problems with her period and menstrual cycle. Saying that soy is full of hormones and can cause harm is warranted, but you're better off being alive and having some issues here and there. Even after the girl had been hospitalized for a week, the parents exchanged text messages denying their daughter's lack of growth was a result of malnutrition. It's absurd. These people are literally in their own world of denial. You have to look at all vegans like this. They are so crazy and brainwashed. They will see, I bet you they could literally have killed the baby and they would have still said it wasn't the vegan diet. That's what other vegans would say too. I think there's some vegans out there that are going to say this was not an issue. This is really good. The daughter was put into foster care with her two older brothers and then within six months, the girl ended up putting on 13 pounds, was crawling and standing on her own. But there are a lot of vegan children, vegan parents on YouTube out there and it's going to be very evident in the future when we see the cognitive function, what these babies look like, what these children end up looking like, how they're behaving and this is just going to take a couple years, guys. This is what all vegans are doing just to a lesser extent. Every single baby, toddler, child, teenager raised on a vegan diet is suffering some sort of nutrient deficiency. Some extreme as this, others less apparent. The reason is not obvious because even the average baby or child doesn't get the proper nutrients they need. We don't consume a fraction of the animal foods that we need to for certain nutrients and even if we do consume animal foods, they aren't high quality because of how we're raising animals now. This has happened many times. There was a couple who did this several months ago in a similar fashion, not giving the baby soy formula. Another baby in Italy was taken to the hospital in similar conditions, weighing only slightly more than a three month old at 14 months old. So it seems like the threshold of growth is after maybe that initial breast milk, it doesn't seem like these babies can grow at all on a vegan diet. Italy has so many cases of children on vegan diets being hospitalized for malnutrition. There was another two year old girl that spent several days in intensive care for vitamin deficiencies. Back in 2007, a vegan couple was sentenced to life in prison for killing their six week old baby boy feeding them a vegan diet consisting of soy milk and apple juice. In 2011, a French couple was charged with neglect after an 11 month old baby died from vitamin deficiencies. In 2013, religious vegan parents starved their 14 month old toddler to death. And another vegan couple killed a baby in 2017. The death was the result of the systematic offer of food which was not suitable, he argued. His health was severely impeded and he eventually died. Any ideas on what the vegan death toll could possibly be?  There is no drive behind the average omnivore, a carnivore diet or a meat eater because they are not attached to a belief system. The reason these vegans do such crazy things and are such activists in many cases and so engaged in convincing other people that their lifestyle, not diet, veganism, I need to stop referring to veganism as a diet, their belief system of veganism is so important to them that they feel the need to do so much for it, yet carnivore dieters, all I really do is talk about the benefits of a carnivore diet. I tell people the importance of animal nutrition and I'm trying to combat things like this. But I don't go around killing babies and ruining the livelihoods of anyone associated with meat production. Just because I saw an animal was cute and cuddly. Oink, oink, moo, moo. Maybe I should start wearing some like my bunny ears from Easter or something and vegans will start liking me too. That being said guys, thank you for joining me today. Please like, subscribe, hit that bell icon. It's right next to the subscribe button. Share the video if you can. If you guys would like to support me further, check out some of the videos I'm going to link at the end here. Recently we did launch Frankies Free Range Meat, our goal to provide you guys with high quality, nutrient dense animal foods and we will have selections for young children, kids. Very healthy, nutrient dense, properly prepared foods in the future. If you want to support that vision and see what we're about, go to FrankiesFreeRangeMeat.com. I also recently started the Frankies Free Range Meat YouTube channel. This is more of a backup channel right now. I will be posting videos on this channel in the future. But this is just in case you know with all the vegans attacking me now. Who knows what's going to happen? But again, thank you guys for watching today. Enjoy the weekend.


All right. So our first speaker is John Maddog Hall. John, I hope this picture is okay with you. So I first met John many years ago. I won't say how many. At a local lug meeting, he was invited out to kind of speak and he explained to us why he got the name Maddog. And after he was done talking, we all realized, yes, it was the reason why he was given the name Maddog. So I'm not going to talk anymore. I'm going to hand it over to John. John, do you want to do it again? All right, let's do it again. Just the first one, hello. All right. There we go. I am here to talk about the history of FOSS. I want to take you back in time. The year is 1964. A single transistor will cost you $1.50. And that's a simple transistor. A power transistor will cost you $2.50. A gallon of gasoline will cost you $0.25.  So I had to have this because back in those days, it was the beginning of the hippie movement, tie-dye, you know, summer of law, just a little bit later. And I was a high school student studying electronics. But then in 1969, I went to university. And 1969 was a magical year because in New Jersey, at fellow laboratories, two guys started a little operating system that became known as UNIX. Ken Thompson had been working on a project, a large project called Maltics. It was supposed to be the be-all, end-all operating system for everything. But he was taken off of that and bought back to Bell Labs. He picked up a spare PDP-7 computer system from Digital Equipment Corporation. And he and Dennis Ritchie and a series of other people started working on this little operating system called UNIX. It was supposed to be the be-all, end-all thing for one person. A little while later, they moved it to a PDP-11. And this became one of the most used machines in the early days of UNIX. Now, why was this important? Because up until this point, people wrote operating systems that was tuned to a specific hardware and tuned to a specific purpose. And you bought a machine that did a specific type of job. UNIX ended up being a small system that was very portable across hardware. And this meant you could have exactly the same operating system when you had different pieces of hardware from different vendors. This was the first time that an operating system was taking advantage, or allowing you to save your training, to save your applications, to have it go across different pieces of hardware. Also in 1969, the beginning of the Internet, this is known as an imp. This is one of the endpoints of the ARPANET. You would have one of these in every endpoint you had, and then you connect your computer systems to them. And so from this was the very beginning of what we call the Internet and the World Wide Web today. Also in 1969, little recognized in any place except two people in Helsinki, Finland, a baby was born. That baby's name was Lina's tour vaults. That's how you say it, by the way. Lina's tour vaults. It's not Lina's tour vaults or Lina's tour vaults. But he gave up trying to convince people how to say it, so he doesn't care what you call it as long as you use it. Also in 1969, I was a university student and I became familiar with this organization called DECUS, the Digital Equipment Corporation User Society. Now as I mentioned before, back in those days you had a computer and if it had an operating system, sometimes they didn't. Sometimes when you wrote your application, you linked the device triples into your application and booted your application. It didn't have an operating system. It ran one program at a time. And there were very few computers of one architecture or one type. So when you wrote your program, you typically wrote it for a specific computer, maybe in a higher level language like Fortran or Koball. Notice I didn't say Fortran 4, Fortran 77, high performance Fortran, Fortran 99, or any of that because there was only going to be one language called Fortran. That and punching cards was all you needed. However, you also had commercial software because your mainframe computer might cost two and one half million U.S. dollars. That's when a million dollars was a lot of money. And since you're only running one program at a time on it, you want that program to be as efficient as humanly possible.  And so you would pay 100,000 U.S. dollars for this commercial compiler. And when it showed up at your facility, it came on a nice 12-inch, nine-track magnetic tape attached to an engineer who would spend the next week there getting that compiler to assemble and then compile itself on your computer system, and then you would run a series of tests to show the compiler was supposedly doing what it was supposed to do, and then the engineer would go away. But you would keep that tape and you had the source code for it because you had purchased that software and it belongs to you. There was no copyright on software back in those days. There was no patents that applied to software back in those days. You bought the software and you typically bought it under a contract. Contract law was what applied. However, there was also a place called Deacus. IBM had shared. Novel had brainstorm or something like that. And these were user groups because also in 1969, the concept of being a professional programmer really didn't exist.  In fact, I had a university professor tell me in 1973, John, you will never make it as a professional programmer. And I'm still trying to figure out if he was correct. But in any case, all these people took and wrote their software to help them do their job and I said, what am I going to do with it? Because selling software is hard work. If you're going to sell software to somebody, you have to write documentation. You have to have some way of fixing problems. You have to put it to different pieces of hardware. You have to do all these things and these people were not professional software writers. They were physicists, educators. And so they contributed their software to Deacus or Share or Mindstorm. And the people who use that equipment could then get a catalog, look up and say, ah, there's a text editor. And I can use that text editor on my hard copy terminal right there. And I could pay $5 for that text editor and get it on paper tape. And so you set away for that. But as a college student, $5 was still a lot of money because back in those days that $5 could buy you 10 pitchers of beer. And so you had this choice, you know, a text editor or 10 pitchers of beer. I think you can see what direction I normally went. But the great thing about it was that this was free software. Once you got that paper tape you could make as many copies of it as you wanted to. In fact, they encouraged you to do that. And so I went to the school store, I'd buy the paper tape, I'd make copies, and I would sell it to my roommates for $1 a copy. So after I had sold my 10 copies, I not only had my $5 back, but I had my 10 pitchers of beer. So I was having a living, making a living selling free software back in 1969. 1969 was also the last time I shaved. Well, we won't talk too much about that. Now, moving forward a little bit, I remember these guys in Bell Laboratories were making this operating system called UNIX. Well, by 1975, there was a whole series of people using UNIX. Not only the people in Bell Laboratories, but people at West Electric, there was the manufacturing arm of the telephone company, universities, and lots of other people were using this little operating system called UNIX because it was so flexible and ran across all these different pieces of hardware. And in 1975, people were still distributing UNIX in source code. And we would have these wonderful meetings, a lot like this, where people would get together and exchange ideas about how to make UNIX better. And people would give up and give a talk about UNIX and telling about what they had done. Except in 1975, this one company came in and gave a great talk about what they were doing with UNIX. It was fantastic, it was wonderful. Hey, I'd like to help you with that. Let's go down in the machine room, bring your tape, we'll exchange the software and stuff, and they said, I can't do that because my company is putting out a binary-only distribution of UNIX. And they don't allow me to give you the source code. Boo! Yes! Boo! Yes! But that was the way it was. And the next year at USNIX, there were a couple more companies that said, no, no, we're only putting out a binary-only distribution. Why? Because to see the source code of UNIX, you need to pay AT&T $160,000 for your first computer. And you had to tell them what the serial number of that computer was. How many of you know the serial number of your laptop right off the top of your head? Yeah, that's why I thought. And for the second computer, that was another $160,000. For the third computer, it was another $160,000. This is because it's a telephone company, and they didn't understand volume discounts. But for a binary-only copy, not only was it only $350, but you didn't have to tell them what the serial number of your computer was. This made it a lot easier for these companies to put out versions of UNIX that they can sell into the mass marketplace. But what it meant was that more and more at all these different UNIX conferences, people would not share the source code of what they were doing. And UNIX eventually became used to this, and there was no more booing and hissing. In 1983, there was a thing at MIT called Project Athena, and this was a movement by the schools because universities could get UNIX for $350 for a site license, the source code. Because universities were research universities that AT&T saw yesterday helping us develop this UNIX thing. I happened to be teaching at a small two-year technical college called Harper State Technical College. We were not a research university. And if I wanted to show my students the source code for UNIX, it would have cost me $160,000. And of course, my deed of instruction would just laugh at me for that. But at MIT, a research university, they were developing a version of UNIX that would go across lots of different workstations, and they developed this thing called the X-Windows system, which we use today. They also developed a security system that went across a network called Kerberos. Now, the reason I'm telling you about this is because in the next slide, we're going to be talking about 1984 and a certain gentleman at MIT by the name of Richard Stallman. Richard was a student at MIT and he liked looking at the source code for UNIX systems and he liked seeing how the source code was written and he liked being able to adapt his codes to use things like printers and stuff without having to pay a lot of money. And he was disturbed that these UNIX systems that had been open source code that he could see were now being closed. So he decided to start this project called Gnu, which stands for Gnu is not UNIX. And then later on, he started a foundation to create an entire operating system that would be free and open source. And he started with this program called Emacs, a text editor. And a lot of people say he could have stopped with Emacs because it was like an entire operating system in a text editor. But he went on and he did a compiler suite, he did a lot of other things, and he was gathering up all this software. Now, the interesting part some people might say is why didn't he start with the kernel? Well, by developing things like a text editor that was portable across different operating systems, he was showing people that you could have something useful that was the same interfaces going across these different systems. And he got people excited about working on that. Same thing with the compiler suite. He had a set of compilers that used exactly the same syntax and semantics in the compiler, no matter what operating system it was on. And this gave a level of programming capability that people were not used to. If he had started with the kernel in 1984, he could have finished that and we would have a very interesting 1984 type of kernel today, but nothing to run on it. So he went the opposite direction. So by 1990, oh, by 1991, most of this operating system, most of the software that could possibly go in this operating system was done, whether it came from Unix or whether it came from BSD, the Berkeley Software Distribution or whether it came from MIT or whether it came from a lot of different places, a lot of the software was done except for the kernel. And remember that kid who was born in 1969, Linus, because by this time, he was a university student at the University of Helsinki and he had just gotten a brand new 386 system which wouldn't do what he wanted it to. Now it came with an operating system on it. It came with this operating system called Windows. But Windows couldn't take advantage of the chip. Why not? What was new about the 386 architecture that had not been in Intel systems before? Wait a minute, somebody out there said it. Demand pays virtual memory. The 286 and the 186 and all the systems before could support swapping the style of memory but not demand page virtual memory. And Linus understood that there was an operating system that could do that but the operating system was called Unix and he couldn't afford any of the Unix systems that were there so he decided to write his own just for fun. Just a little project. It wasn't going to be as big and important like Minix or anything like that. And so he sent out a message to a lot of people and said hey I'm working on this, would you like to join me? And people answered back and said yes. Now originally he wanted to call the operating system Freaks. F-E-R-F-R-E-A-X but the person who was going to put the software up and then that for people to pull down said no, no, I'm not going to call it Freaks. We're going to call it Linux and the history comes out. Now by 1994 the kernel was to the point where there was a good enough kernel to be able to handle some problems and so version 1.0 of the kernel came out and a lot of people started making distributions. One of the first ones was a distribution called SLS, the soft landing systems. Another one was a fantastic distribution called Yggdrasil. Unfortunately they were a little bit ahead of their times. Those ones no longer exist. However Slackware came along rapidly and Slackware still exists today. Patrick Volkering, very excellent gentleman, is at the head of that distribution. And then other ones which we've heard of like Debian and Red Hat and SUSE, Connectiva and others came out. People say there's too many distributions. I don't find this is a problem. I could go back and forth between these different distributions but when I find what I like, I stay with it. So I don't care if there's 350 other distributions. I like this one. I stay with it. No problem. In 1994 I was working for Digital Equipment Corporation in the UNIX group and I heard about this person who had done something with software and one of the people in our user group wanted to bring this person to Deacus, remember Deacus? Still around, wanted to bring them to Deacus in New Orleans. Now in the United States there were two places that are called the Adult Disneyland. One is Las Vegas and the other is New Orleans. I love New Orleans.  And we did. And I saw Linux for the first time. Now one of the things you can do in New Orleans is you go out on the Natchez. And I took Linus out on the Natchez and we're going along and I said, Linus, I've seen Linux now. I understand what the model is. It's really great. But you know it's only on Intel. It's only 32-bit. What would you think about taking it to a 64-bit system like Digital's Alpha, the world's fastest microcomputer? A risk architecture so you can get some of the intel-isms out of the kernel. Now what is an intel-ism? If you are a programmer and you're trying to do very, very efficient code, sometimes you take advantage of the architecture of the specific processor to do something. A little hack. And that's okay until the processor architecture changes underneath of you or you try and make the kernel portable to a different system.  And so what you would do is try and make the operating system separated into two parts, the least independent part that does all the things like scheduling, higher levels of memory management, things like that, and the lower part, which does the things that are specific to a specific architecture. And Lina said, yes, I'd love to do that, but I've been having problems getting an Alpha system from the digital office in Helsinki. And so I may have to do the PowerPC instead. That is a wrong answer. Don't do that. And so I went running back to my office at digital and I called up a friend of mine. Now you will be told that the way you get things done in a large corporation is that you write a product plan, you send it to your management, a business plan, they consider it, they look at it, stuff like that. Let me tell you, that's not how it's done. You call in favors. And I'd worked for digital for 16 years up to that point and people owed me a lot of favors. And so I called up this person named Jim Jackson and I said, Jim, I don't have time to tell you who this is or what they've done, but I need to have an Alpha system sent to Helsinki, Finland right away. What can you do for me? And this is a time where not even the engineers in digital had all the Alpha systems they needed. It's also a time where the system I was asking him to send was worth 30,000 U.S. dollars. And Jim sent it off with no more than that as justification. Now, the other thing you need to think about is that we started this port. In May of 1994, I met Linus, got in the system. He wanted to take time to think about what he was doing and also to bring out version 1.2 of the Kirtle because he wanted to stabilize version 1.0, fix all the bugs, handle all the problems, and then he would start thinking about this port to make Linux 64-bit and to make it portable because Linus didn't want to have a source code tree that only supported two architectures. He wanted it to support N architectures as many as he wanted to. And so he started to divide up the code in his mind that way. Now, you bring out a system like that and we started the actual port, January 1st, 1995 By November of 1995, the port was done and Red Hat had brought out an alpha distribution on CD. Nine months, approximately nine months. This was the fastest I had ever seen a port of this type done and done by people who were not working for the same company who were volunteers and a lot of them never saw each other face-to-face. Truly amazing. But now we had an operating system that basically had no applications for it. You say, what do you mean no applications? It's all those neat little commands of stuff in Linux and Unix. That's true. But no databases, no office packages, nothing like that. What do you do with something like that? Well, one of the first uses of Linux was to repurpose older hardware.  What are you going to do with that? Well, if you give it to somebody else, you have to buy another Microsoft license for that because you don't own the software. So you have to buy another copy and put that on the older equipment. That may cost you $400. But with Linux, you can just put it on for free and repurpose that machine to do something else. What could you use with it? You could use it as a router. You could use it as a small server. And what was happening at about the same time was this gentleman created this thing called the World Wide Web. And all of a sudden we had these people who had been using Spark systems with Solaris find out that they could use a cheap Intel PC with Linux to do the same thing, to create a shell account, to put a web server on it. And so Linux started to be the favorite of the ISP. And one more thing, because you had the source code if there was a bug in the system, if there was a virus attack, if there was something like that, you could fix it yourself. And this was very important if what you're selling are services to other people. There was a very famous worm that happened called the Morris Worm. And Digital Grip Incorporation finding out that the worm existed and understanding what the problem was took two weeks to generate and test the patch and distribute the patch to our customers. That was for the system that we still supported. An older system that we dropped support, it took us three months to develop the patch for that and we almost didn't do it. The free software community within four hours of understanding the problem had the source code patch up on the web. In 1995 there was another problem. Supercomputer companies like Cray and E.C.L. were going out of business because they would design a very expensive, very complex system and then they would sell five of them. Two of them typically to universities, another two to some of these organizations we dare not say their name. And then one would disappear someplace. And they were going out of business. The two people from NASA, Donald Becker and Thomas Sterling developed this concept called the Beowulf Supercomputer or high performance computing of taking inexpensive PCs dividing up the application and having them do amazing work. You could get 40 times the power, the computing power for the same amount of money or only have to pay one 40th what you would pay for a supercomputer to get your computing power you needed. That created another market for Linux. In 1998 Informix announced that they were going to port their database engine. In fact they not only announced it but released a code on the same day that was overshadowed by a company called Oracle who found out they were going to do this and announced that sometime in the future Oracle would port to Linux. And of course that took all the press away from Informix but over the next couple months the database companies all ported and this gave a vision of legitimacy to Linux. Then finally in the year 2000 almost overnight all the embedded system companies decided to use Linux. And Linux became the most used operating system in new embedded system designs. Why? Why did this happen? Because up until that point a lot of the embedded system companies developed their own operating system a lot of times they had to use their own compilers. But in the year 2000 something special happened. They all of a sudden realized these things now have to talk to each other on this magical thing called the internet. And this means you need to have a network stack. And that's a hard thing to do. And the other thing is you have to have an operating system that is stable and secure and typically multitasking maybe multi-user. And if you're going to create 100,000 kiosk you don't want to have to pay 100,000 royalties. And so they looked around and the operating system they chose was Linux. So this brings this up really to the end of my talk. The next person is going to talk about Linux of today. I didn't want to get too far into their talk. So thank you very much. Thank you very much John. Alright, so as John mentioned our next speaker is going to speak about the present of Free and Open Source software Jono Bacon. He knows a little bit about the Free and Open Source community. I think he wrote a book. Some people may have read it. No, Jono is saying no. No one bought it. Did your wife buy it? No, she didn't buy it either. I have a copy. That's right, you gave it to me.  Alright. How's everyone doing? So before we go on, I think it's important that we give one of the most inspirational people in the Free Software world a huge round of applause. I love this man. Okay, so I'm here to talk about the present. I think it's quite simple with one. So, I think we are living in an incredible time when it comes to Open Source and Free Software. We've just seen such a remarkable amount of growth in the last 10, 15 years. I got interested in this in 1998 when my brother told me that Windows was a Mickey Mouse operating system. Installed SlackR on my computer, left the login details on the screen and then moved out. If you want a hardcore introduction to the Linux, that's going to be it. What's interesting to me is that we've seen so many interesting examples of success. Not just in the Linux world, but in the Open Source and the Open Culture world as well. So Wikipedia, for example, was valued at tens of billions of dollars by the Smithsonian. We've got Red Hat, who I think have now got to be in a $2 billion Open Source company. The first billion-dollar Open Source company. Of course, Linux is powering devices in our pockets, in stock markets, in industrial systems and elsewhere. OpenStack completely disrupted the cloud and democratized it in a way that we didn't have a single provider who was dominating that because we know how that works in the software world. And then, of course, we've got millions of repos in GitHub where people are building software for a wide variety of purposes all of the time. So you don't have to look very far. You don't need me to teach you all how impressive Open Source is in the present. What's exciting to me is that we've not just got those meaningful projects, but we've got stupid projects as well, such as Hannah Montana Linux, which I think some people actually use. Gareth. Yeah. One of those 300 distros that Mad Dog was talking about. And then you've got, for example, did anyone hear about the hacker scripts?  One was called Hangover Dotsher, which would periodically check if he was logged into the server, and if it wasn't at a certain time in the morning, it would automatically send his boss an email with a pre-defined excuse from a list. And he also wrote a script called Coffee Dotsher, which would basically connect to the coffee maker in the office, which no one knew you could connect to with Telnet, and it would brew a cup, wait 24 seconds, which was the exact time it took him to walk from his desk to the coffee maker to pick it up. So we get people, the Open Source spirit and mentality and methodology has not just been used for really remarkable projects, such as the ones a couple of slides back, but for cases like this as well. Now when I started out, I had a machine that looked a little bit like this. This is running DOS though. And what was exciting to me was that this essentially connected me as an 18-year-old living in the middle of England to an electronic world where I could play a role. And it was the combination of the internet and computing power and open tools that made that interesting. What is exciting about the present in my mind is that we've seen this remarkable growth in computing power. So we've seen the growth of computing curve, which means that in 2025 a $1,000 computer will be as powerful as a human brain, for example. And we can use this for data-intensive tasks. We've seen tremendous examples of this, such as Microsoft in the AI world and big data in various other cases. But we've also seen a remarkable growth of internet access as well. So now we're getting powerful computing mixed with ubiquitous internet access and open tools, and that opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities. What happened here, I think, is my slides aren't working. Cheap computing drones and 3D printing. What we're seeing here is we're seeing this birth of all kinds of interesting technology. So cheap computing, such as Arduino and Raspberry Pi's, we're seeing 3D printing, such as the MakerBots and the 3D systems printers. We've got drones, such as the 3D robotics solo. We've seen open source, this huge library of open source for building anything from wireless to games to anything else. Of course, the massive growth in the cloud. And there's always been traditionally a problem, I think, between connecting innovators to the consumers. People have been working and hacking on interesting problems for many years, but crossing that divide has been very difficult, and Crowdfund has essentially opened that up so the public can be your VC. And what's exciting to me is that all of these things are infused with openness. If you look at each of these different areas, people are doing things with open source projects. The majority of Kickstarter and Indiegogo campaigns I seem to see have got some kind of open source bent to it. And this has opened up a world where when I started out with that computer, I never had any of this technology available. So what we've got today, available for every single person in this room, is really inspiring. And this means that we see projects such as this. The 3D robotics solo, which is this drone up here, Linux powered, it's got two Linux computers in it. You can build custom hardware that will hang on the bottom of this drone. You can access it and get data from the drone. This thing is incredible. It's like a games console for the sky. And then you've got things like the Microsoft, which I'm a big fan of, which is open hardware, open source, open services, just a way in which we're able to, again, democratize artificial intelligence. So we're not just seeing really interesting open source projects. We're seeing all these interesting open hardware projects as well. And the reason why I think this is happening is because what we've seen in the last 10 years, and what we're seeing today, is that open source is where society innovates. This is where we're not just learning how to build interest in things, but this is where we learn how to work together around code, to work together around open documentation. How do we bring a group of people together to build interesting things in the most effective way possible? And open source has just become this fascinating laboratory for where we're exploring different ways of doing this. And it's like scale helped to iterate that every single year. But we can do better. So before I stop rambling about the present, I think there's some things in the present that are not perfect. It's not 100% rosy. I think there's two things that we can figure out moving forward. The first thing is figuring out how we can bring the worlds of atoms and bits and bytes together. So we've got hardware communities that do interesting things. We've got software communities. The openness in hardware and openness in software has opened up this world where we're going to be collaborating around hardware projects with 3D printing and firmware and open source and various other pieces. So this is a really exciting scope. It's kind of like the original map of how people work together in different ways in projects has become 3D. And we now got multiple layers in how people collaborate together around hardware as well as software. Another thing is figuring out how we build effective communities which is obviously something I'm somewhat passionate about. How we go from an idea through to implementation. I feel like we're doing some incredible work here across a wide variety of open source projects, but we haven't quite figured that out as well. And what this culminates to is that when I started out and I had that computer and the course of my career, the technology that's become available to me, when I think about people like this, which is my three-year-old little boy, and we think about what we'll open up for him in the future. It's going to be a pretty inspiring place. Thank you. All right, thanks, Jono. I'm going to predict that 2016 is going to be the year of Hannah Montana Linux. Mark my words. All right. So our final speaker in the Floss Reflections talk. You have one more of your son. Three of your son. There we go. All right. So our next speaker is Kayla Banks. So for those that don't know, myself and various other scale people, we've been doing this for 14 years. Kayla has been attending scale before she was born. None of us can claim that. So I'm going to welcome Kayla up to the stage. Kayla is going to talk to us about the future of free and open source software. Thank you, Garrett. So first I want to talk about me. They invited me here because well, I like to encourage kids to get into open source and I talk about open source for about four years now. But really since I'm representing the future they could have asked everybody in this room to represent open source because well, I like to explain it as my own personal experience. I have a lemon tree in my backyard and you know California soil is pretty bad and so well, what if one of those lemons want to just fall on the floor and grow their own lemon tree. I like to call that the present and that means the older people. They are the ones who will reach the soil for us. And I, the lemons are the ones who make new trees. And that's why I like to call everybody the future because everyone is involved in making new, better trees. I guess the clicker is not working so I guess I'll just talk. So first I want to talk about what I see in the open source. I agree with John. The present was a pretty awesome decade for open source. Everything was awesome and so you might be thinking well what can we improve on? Well, the main thing that we need improvement on is connection. Just think about it. We might have social networks that connect us to people but are we really connected? I mean, if anyone's watched The Future 2015 was supposed to be mind reading and it's actually not too far from it.  Actually, my friend Jasmine's cruise is that John Cruise works for Samsung's company Tizen. Tizen is supposed to be an operating system that's not just operating on your computer. It's supposed to be on your phones, your TVs, your smartwatches, anything that has a device or it has a screen is probably going to be run on. I think internet of things that Tizen might be the future of open source. And so now that we talked about what the future is, let's talk about things we need to improve in the future. So the biggest thing I think that prevents kids and other people from joining open source is lack of support for gaming. That's mainly why I go on my Windows partition for gaming because when I put a bunch on my computer it was very, very hard to run Sims 3 and still have all the compatibility and support for all my mods and hacks. So yeah, you know as kids we like to play video games. So Linux this is what we're known for it's bad at it. Actually this is kind of a issue in my family since we're big time gamers. And so you can also check out my brother Hunter Banks who writes for FossForce magazine. He writes a little bit more about that issue too so you should check it out. And next I want to talk a little bit more broad than just floss reflections. If you look in the acronym floss you see that there's software well in the future I predict open source is going to be way more than software. There's a huge industry that I think open source can take over and that's hardware and I think we can start with 3D printing. Yeah, 3D printing already exists but I mean with 3D printing do you think about printing out a phone case or do you think about printing out a house it's possible and it's already happening in China actually we're way behind our game open source in the future of open source we are going to take away we open source community we're going to dominate 3D printing even if it's houses our dad actually has a friend named Jonah who takes over open source architecture yeah, open source architecture they make houses that are made from biofuels using blueprints that are all open source so that's just a little bit of what I think and going back to what I said first everyone in here is open source and so that means even a little grab at this morning Zoe if you have any ideas or anyone in this room that has ideas of what you can bring into open source don't be afraid to share oh and also if you want to learn a little bit more about the future we're having a talk the automated team on Saturday at 1.30, thank you alright, thank you Kayla so we have a few minutes before Brian Lunduk's talk for those of you who hadn't seen it was all over the internet so I imagine it's most of you the free and open source community had a big loss a couple weeks ago Ian Murdock passed away so I wanted to invite Jonah and John back on stage just to say a few words about Ian and kind of their memories of him I didn't know Ian Murdock very well I only met him a few times but he was the person who started the Debian operating system and I think that Debian is unique in a lot of ways because a lot of the different distributions of Linux or GNU Linux Fridge is around they started as a single person doing it where they started as a company doing it or but with Debian it was first the concept of what are we going to do why are we doing this and they formed a community of people with a structure to it that allowed Debian to grow Debian is not just a distribution it's in effect a distribution creator and so a lot of the distributions that we look at today such as Ubuntu, Knopix and others are built on top of the packages which are created by the Debian community of people they take this very very seriously they elect their project leaders they use encryption to sign their packages they have a very set goals to maintain quality of their systems and they have a series of different systems one of which is very stable long term support and then others which are less stable development systems so I think it was fantastic that Ian way back when they started the Debian system thought this far ahead and yes we have lost a very good guy who was very modest very intelligent and it was a shame that he died I wish he had been around a lot longer like Mad Dog I wouldn't profess to have known Ian hugely he was somebody who years back I got an email from him once with some feedback about some of the stuff that we were doing in Ubuntu eventually met him at a conference I think it was Linux Targ if I remember and I feel quite fortunate in the fact that throughout the course of my career I've got to meet most of my heroes in the Linux in the free software world and he was probably one of the first for me to meet him and being genuinely tingly about it because he was if it wasn't for him we wouldn't have a lot of what we have today it wasn't to Mad Dog's point Debian is not just software it's a way of life it's a methodology that has inspired so many other projects and it's always nerve wracking when you meet your heroes because you're not really sure what they're going to be like and it was amazing to me that he was more interested in me than me expressing interest in him he was genuinely a humble human being and from time to time I bump into him he would usually be hanging out the front of a conference having a cigarette or something and every single time he was just such a given person to the point whereby I don't think he really ever knew or acknowledged his level of accomplishment in the work that he did so you know we'd invite him to we invited him to Lug Radio Live which is a ludicrous event for a person with a statue of Ian Murdock but he came along he was happy to participate at every step and I think that's what makes his loss such a difficult thing to deal with but I think from the little bit that I did know him he wouldn't want us to here looking blue about it he'd want us all having fun and continuing free software and open source so it was a good time thank you


Known to the Rappahoe Indians as land of the earthworm spirit, the interesting rock formations at Vitavu are the westward traveler's gateway to the Medicine Bow National Forest. Vitavu's characteristic rock outcrop is made up of 1.4 billion-year-old Sherman granite. These rocks represent some of the oldest rock in Wyoming, but are still more than a billion years younger than the Tetons. The hard granite of Vitavu is made up of large crystals of quartz, volcanic rock, and some mica. It is more erosion-resistant than the other surrounding material, resulting in these unique wind and water-sculpted forms. The natural erosion processes still take place today. Outdoor enthusiasts come from all parts of the world to sample the area's natural beauty. Climbers find some of the best wide-crack climbs in the world. There are over 900 routes currently on record. Vitavu is also a great place for pictures of beautiful sunsets, unique formations and colors, flowers, and wildlife. So the next time you visit the land of the Earthborne Spirit, remember to take your camera along to capture memories of your cliff climbs and the breathtaking scenery from the University of Wyoming Extension, I'm Ash LeGarles, exploring the nature of Wyoming.


Welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today I am joined by the collecting legend Mike Corrado Mike welcome to the show. Thanks. I appreciate it. Sure. Yeah, it's um You and I met at the Chicago drum show 2019 which I guess is the last one that you know that happened when we're recording this because it's 2020 and the world has gone crazy and break. I'll never forget you give me you gave me your your business card Which was actually a tuning key that had your name and information engraved on it Which will always be the coolest thing the coolest card.  I would love to hear about your collection You've been recommended by multiple people too many to name as being a guest on this show like almost one of those like essential Guests especially on the drum forums. I see your name pop up all the time as hey, you should get them on the show So you're here. I'm excited. Why don't we start by really going back to how did How did Mike Corrado become you know the legendary drum collector? How did it all start? Well? I've been playing drums for 61 years. I've been teaching drones for 57 years and Through all my years of playing I always had some you know, five or ten snare drums laying around Just you know different sounds I really weren't wasn't into the vintage or Collectibility of them. I just had them laying around and I would use them for different gigs and then around 1994-95 I started reading some articles about vintage drums and engraved drums and black beauties and Then I then I started seeing that some of the drums that were presented or some of the drums I had in my you know my stash of drums so then About Mars of 95 I brought in two snare drums to a guy named Sam Adato in San Francisco He had a drum shop. He now moved up to the West Coast. I think in Oregon and We made a trade. Yeah, he traded me a nice seven by 14 twin strainer white marine pearl swing model and WFL and I traded them an old grit snare and something else and The bug bit from there. I That was the first of my starting of my collecting that was probably on March of 1995 Wow Yeah, man, and before we move forward just so people know How many snares do you have now? Um give or take six hundred and fifty Could be as little as a little as six hundred and forty. It could be six hundred and sixty But we're worried, but you know, let's say six forty to six fifty plus or minus. Oh Man, okay, just to put that into perspective so everyone everyone knows and Okay, so And what year remind me again? You just said but what year was that that you started that you would say the bug bit you Started the collection in March of 1995 95 okay, so yeah going on for a long time now Obviously you are a drummer. We've spoken on the phone a few times before this and you're a drum teacher, correct? You teach many students. Yeah Now gosh, I just it's like Jaw-dropping six hundred. Let's call it six hundred fifty snares. That's Unbelievable I'd love to hear a little bit about so it's not like a thing though where and maybe you're gonna change this where I know you have a book This isn't something though where like they're very They're not on display like as far as I know you can't really click through and see every single snare that you have so that it Really is a a private collection at this point, correct It is it's that when you walk in the entryway to my house you'll see a couple hundred snare drums on custom shelves and We don't use a dining room in my house So that dining room has about 50 snare drums in it along with my Peloton bike and all that So a lot of a lot of the a material is on display and I I have friends that come by and see the collection or fellow collectors that they're in town You know they come by and see it so and then in the garage. I have some cabinets that I have a couple of hundred snare drums in that Snare them with the rare finishes like peacock pearl and rose pearl that shouldn't see the light of day continually So they're enough nice dark cabinets, but they're you know available to show people and Then I have some drums in storage, you know, just like some old duplexes or kind of collectibles But you know just old stuff or you know, the Nickel over brass snare drums Yeah, that are that are that are should be in a collection, but then it's not the a material Your like D material is probably nicer than my Material it's unbelievable. So and I got to ask you are married, correct. Yes. I've been married 31 years My wife up with it She's actually a little bit. She's kind of legendary amongst collectors for if you um If you look up an old drum magazine, they had an article about me with that You'll see pan shots of my entryway that they they showed Photos and you'll get an idea of how this setup is at the house and but my wife Is definitely legendary amongst collectors, you know, she puts up with my craziness I paid for it in other ways as other collectors will probably know But uh Yeah, it's it's it works out so far man Yeah, I mean I have a An old Japanese kit in my kind of front hall right when you open the door and I thought I was like dream Your next level man. Well, that's unbelievable So I think it'd be kind of cool. I want to do a couple things I want to hear about Some of your favorite snares how you collect these but maybe you can tell someone I don't know if it's even Tangible but like what's let's say like like all right, so me I want to maybe get into collecting snare drums What is a good first thing I should do? How do I get into? Collecting valuable rare snares Well A lot of things are swimming in my mind, but that's just kind of not not in really any order Sure, I found I found over the years having a good network of friends and fellow collectors has really helped but the the price paid for that is Those fellow friends and collectors that I've done deals with if you do honest deals and come through with your end of the deal These guys are gonna want to do business with you again No, yeah, so I have a nice network of friends And collectors that if they find something that maybe they're not interested in though Alert me as I will for them, you know, I'm not into 60s Grats drum sets, although they're great, and I totally respect what they are I just don't collect them, but if I see things like that, I'll call my good friend Steve Maxwell He he deals in that kind of stuff and vice versa. He'll he'll alert me of a black beauty that's available or something So I can't just answer your question if you get that nice You know list of friends that Contact Then you're you're getting calls here and there even if it doesn't pan out I always appreciate the call and a lot of times if it doesn't work for me I can turn them on to someone else that might be interested Yeah, so that's what that's one way to start Getting a collection You know the drum shows are always always help eBay I've found a lot of great snare drums on eBay. I mean a lot over the years Interesting to me because I'm 30 and I feel like eBay was huge and maybe it kind of went more to like in so I'm wrong obviously, but it went more to like Facebook Marketplace Craigslist eBay is risky because it's you know, it's being shipped and there's a lot of fake stuff on eBay, but you're You're telling me that like no eBay is where it's at. There's lots of good stuff on eBay To this day, right? Yeah, I found I found I mean I found some great drums Some of them I've paid up the wazoo for and some of them have gotten for a steal They're out there You know the thing with eBay eBay is very pro buyer So, you know if you if you get something and it's not right I mean, you know, you can file a claim and you know, it's kind of unfortunate But the seller gets docked right away and that's good to know. Yeah, but aside from all of that stuff The just you know a good straight deal where you see a cool drum. You put your bid in. I like to snipe it I'm kind of a sniper. So You know, I actually found a lot of drums. I mean something what's sniping means while we're on that Well, it's You wait till the last couple of seconds and then you throw your bid in in the old days of the eBay You had to kind of have a I have a little atomic clock next to me there. So I got the accurate time Nowadays you eBay has a thing where you're bidding and it shows a little time clock next to it How many seconds on me a minute left?  Yeah, okay. Well Have you ever been Burned by anything like that. Well, you said eBay really covers it But like maybe you like has it happened to you where you're trying to you know You bid on something and you get it and it's not even what you wanted or it's broken or it's a fake Has that happened to you? No fakes, although, you know with 650 snare drums, you know, I'm sure Something might have slipped by but pretty much the the the person I people people I had dealt with, you know had been honest I've gotten Burned Lightly, you know a drum will come and and the badge is loose and it looks like it's been taken off and put on Or I bought something off Shop Goodwill once which they're good people and they took care of business But they you know, they said the drum was six and a half By 15 and it was actually six and a half by 14. Well, that's nice But that's not what they said. I wanted it. Yeah, I wanted but it was a very rare Black jewel model so I took it anyway, but then they knocked 500 bucks off and they you know, they try to tell me Well, you know, we have a certain way to measure and I go well No, you measure from the inside of the drum and that's the diameter have a nice day You know, don't tell me about that, you know, so they were cool though They refunded me some money and so I have nothing but good things to say they took care of business a couple other things I've gotten, you know some surprises couple of extra holes that nobody Decided to tell me about in most cases everybody has taken care of business One collector back east kind of just said well too bad. You should have known I said, well, you know My clairvoyance license expired last month and I didn't know that so No, yeah So but I think I would think what you just said about oh this guy kind of did something shady Goes back to the first one of your network of friends where then you can then say hey Everyone watch out for this guy or girl because they have burned me and then your reputation is super It's got to be super important, you know You're keeping a good clean because you have a reputation obviously Yeah, that's a small group of people.  But These are few and far between, you know, 90 95 98% of the time. It's a good deal Maybe but something minor here and there maybe the collector was like an antique dealer and really didn't know a lot about drums So, you know, he said the you know, the drum was seven inches But it's six and a half because he measured all the way out to the rims instead of the shell my you know mind the little things, you know, you can let that slide and Yeah, yeah, I'm a mistake and and everybody most everybody is taking care of business and So I still give on the eBay. I still give it an A, you know Okay. Yeah, you know, it's I've had pleasurable experience. I've been doing eBay since 1998 Buying and selling, you know, like I'll buy I'll buy some drums and clean them up and make the money off that and then just save the Money to spend on the drums. I really want Sure. Yeah, I mean I Gotta get back on eBay now so You said buying and selling do you sell a lot of drums because it sounds like with 650, you know ish snares you have are you are they are they mainly coming in and not going out or are they going out to help support the habit right I'm pretty much what they call an end user The stuff I collect is like keep like I might find If I let's say I find a black beauty that I just can forget for cheap clean it up and make some money on it I'll do that. I don't have it already like it So I'll buy, you know, or something something comes in the store where I teach and they don't want it They'll turn me on to it I'm taking home clean it up and put it on eBay and you know, hopefully make some money on it So primarily I collect and I keep the drums You know, yeah, I put a lot of effort into finding some drums. So I don't worry about You know what it's going to be worth next year if I wanted it right now I want it for the collection and I enjoy it for what it is now. I I tell people my collection These drums could be worth a nickel tomorrow. I can still honestly say that I had fun collecting them So that's that's where I'm at. I don't do it as a as a for a living That's great. It's I know it's hard because I know a lot of the guys that Collect and they're also dealers, you know, what do you know? What do you you got to buy something for a thousand bucks and you got to turn it or You're sitting on merchandise where if I buy it. I want it for the collection So it kind of makes a little easier on the brain there Yeah, I know exactly what you mean I find that like like if I do let's say an episode or something on social media where you know a video that I'll put up of Buddy Rich will get a ton of views and it's great But then one that I do of like some very cool thing that I am really like I had to dig to find And I put it up and it gets a couple likes I'm like well I'm still happy that I found that and surfaced it and showed it to people. Yeah, it's important You know what I mean? It's it's yeah, it doesn't matter that that stuff. So um, yeah, I remember talking to John Aldridge about Collecting obviously you guys know each other you've done this But like I think he said something about once you kind of get your first let's say black beauty It seems like almost collecting like classic cars or something like you can then take that and then trade it for something else And then like once you get one you're sort of in the Yeah That money is invested and it's gonna keep you can make it go up and up and up and up It's just an initial buy-in. That's I guess kind of the hurdle. Yeah John Aldridge is I consider him a great friend He was one of the first collectors I met in my early days He took a lot of time with me to answer my novice questions And I hold him responsible for getting me into black beauty Yeah But but to answer your question. Yeah, see Sometimes I'll find the drum and I already have one or two of so you can fix it up clean it makes the money But I tend to collect I like to collect sets of things So I like to collect a four by fourteen version a five by fourteen a six and a half and then in the six lug And the eight lug and the ten lug so yeah, I like I like sets of things That's Very cool, and I know Like I think Mark Cooper talked about it on the show collecting Slingerland a matching banjo to a matching snare or drum set from obviously very early on in Slingerland It's you know that same kind of like Yeah, Mark. Yeah, Mark has I think I've seen he has a sea green banjo and I think a rose banjo and Those match up with the sea green and the Rose pearl Slingerland, so yeah, I've seen those Absolutely now Are you only snares or do you have some obviously you you have a drum set? I would imagine but do you are or do you collect drum sets as well? No, if I if I started collecting drum sets, I'd have to come and live with you because I'm already pushing the limit here I do have a couple of drum sets, you know, I have one packed up and then I have a couple of the drum studio where I teach But I primarily I my main thing is I collect vintage snare drums Also, just a side thing to that I collect, you know old drum keys and old sticks and old drum pads and catalogs and things like that But cool drum wise I collect just snare drums Yeah, that makes sense. You're right. Yeah sets are obviously you can stock them But they're very They take up a lot of space. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, okay now I I love getting your I'm on getting your email list you send out to people who are on there you get your You know you send out and they're there in I should say in not so modern drummer. You Document your fines and your hunts and yeah, yeah, and what you've done to these snares So I just think what you're doing is just kind of like a Like how people can follow along with your journey is super cool. I Would love to hear a little bit about maybe let's say top five or you know, whatever top three of Kind of the holy grail You can't believe that you got it Scare drones. Yeah, what would those be? well, that's a that's a rough one because It's hard. I'll try to limit it There's there's so many that are Better in that there's so many that are in the top five somebody else. I could say it that way 100 right there you go. That's better Well a snare drum that I really like From the 20s is called the golden-grey triumphal model I've kind of studied a little bit and to my love kind of Checking out who owns what and in my searching. That's narrowed it down that there's ten of them so far Out there and I kind of know where they all are So I like to collect triumphals I've never heard of that. I'm googling it now. Obviously. Okay, Ludwig. Yeah, it's a goal. That's a Gold plated everything's gold plated the shell is engraved the Lugs are engraved and the rims are engraved. It was kind of like Ludwig Ludwig flagship snare drum So so I collect so I collect triumphals like those are my top snare drums I'm not many around there's only ten of them out there. So Not a whole lot that I know there could be more and you know uncle Elmer's born in Oklahoma But but right now I've I've found we're we're ten of them are and Six of them are in my collection. So I know where the where the rest are Before you move on to number two here Let me ask you and this is probably you know a no one can answer this kind of question but if there's Whatever you said ten of these snares in the world so far So far, okay, but yeah, so that's my question is like Ludwig made a bunch of them No one knows what happens to them But like that's so interesting to me that like obviously Ludwig made more than ten snares They must just get I mean obviously again No one knows but they must just get lost to like floods or they're in a barn or there That's just such an interesting thing of like where are these snares? Where did they go?  He thinks they made about 12 of them. That was his opinion And that's so far, you know makes sense because I will I've only come up where there's 10 of them again Not that there's any more somewhere else, but they just haven't surfaced Geez, yeah, man, and and yeah, I look online and it says some of them were made in 1928 Which obviously the following year was the Great Depression.  Yeah, the 25 is the the models with the eight lugs or 10 lugs and then 10 lugs There's a couple of the supers and obviously those were out in the late 20s also you know And then I got a I got a couple of six lug Triumphals so early ones and so people know because it's kind of I googled triumphant. It's triumphal t-r-i-u-m P-h-a-l Yeah, search to know you see it in the old Ludwig catalogs they up in the front They'll show the different options you can get The deluxe hardware, which is the copper with the gold lacquer or chrome if it's after 1929 or Nickel and then they'll have They'll go mention gold and might even mention triumphal where everything's gold plated and engraved Yeah Wow There's um, there's one on eBay that I see for $13,500 so I might I might snipe that all right. No, I'm kidding My god. No, I would be in trouble, but okay, so What yeah, what's number two on your list? Well, I have a glass stone. I have a original glass stone. It's in my book It's the Charlie Cordes model Charlie Cordes was Really glad stones mechanic the guy who put everything together And it's a goal. It's a six by 14 gold lacquer with all gold hardware and From what I'm told it's the only one like that the one that's same finish But it is a seven by 14 is Billy's Actual drum a good friend of mine owns that But from what I'm told there's only the only made two of the gold lacquer shell with gold hardware And so that's that's a very rare one Yeah, I want to do I've Dom Femmularo did a episode about Molar Gladstone and Touching on all of them a little bit Yeah, I think I need to do a Billy Gladstone episode because his snares are just some of the most Him as a person obviously is you know a legend, but his snares are very rare and very You know iconic and there's just It's just so cool. So that's that's got to be That was that an eBay thing or how did you get that one? That one was actually one of my first big purchases probably around 1996 I heard a guy had a they had five or six Gladstones in a Florida and so we talked and worked a deal But before I forget you ought to look up Chet Bowser on him. He's a very well-known Gladstone expert and he'd be a great interview for you He's uh, yeah, he's the You know, he has a book out about Gladstone Candy owns six or seven original Gladstones and Gretz Gladstone. So he'd be the perfect person to talk to that stuff Also, Steve Maxwell did Steve Maxwell Maxwell drums. He's broken a lot of Gladstone. So he can tell you a lot about that too perfect, yeah Steve's on my list. I'll go to say that I've been trying to get Steve on the show and he's It just hasn't worked yet because I want to do a Craviado episode as well, which oh, yeah, I think everyone knows I've said it on the show a bunch these episodes Sometimes they take forever you for example, we met in 2019 We talked for you the email for maybe a year and it just kind of yeah They just don't happen and it's no one's fault. It's not a bad thing But when they actually do it's just it's awesome. So oh, yeah I appreciate the recommendation.  They're kind of cool They're Same concept as the sling of the Ludwig super Ludwig model parallel mechanism on the bottom But they're much rarer because they got sued by Ludwig because their mechanism Was too close to Ludwigs and they went to court and Ludwig one. So they had to cease and desist so there's not many Slingerland do walls out there of the duals the one that I really think is a holy grail is It's a it's a black engraved do all called the radio model It's the only one I've ever seen again, not that there's another one somewhere, but at the moment This is the only one I've ever seen this one kind of mine Alerted me to and the guy that had it set me pictures and I looked at the shell and it was covered in White lacquer or enamel and he started to yeah, he started to take the enamel off And I said wait just hold on for a second and I could notice engraving engraving underneath So we struck a deal. I just said just send me the drum.  I'm looking at it. There's a Not some modern drummer Article about it that you wrote which is really cool to be like talking about this and looking it up All right, like we rehearsed it. Yeah, exactly cue the pictures so Do you do do you physically?  Folks like I have you know, I have my garage where I have all my things that I do when I restore I try to You know, there's there's there's kind of three ways to go you can leave the drum as it is Or you can do some kind of you know restoration or You can totally make it brand new looking. I kind of keep in the middle Yeah, so I'm not a purist But I'm realistic.  So I'll bring it to my platers and they got the big Polishing wheels and they don't replay it. They just polish it up. It's called coloring They just bring the the nickel back to life or if it's art go art the art goal or the let's finish from Ludwig Where the copper is? Lackened it's because the lacquer is worn off and then the copper just, you know, tarnishes so I'll I'll get all that old lacquer off and Polish up the original copper and then hit it with some gold lacquer So I leave all the imperfections in it.  So that's I kind of You know, I don't usually replay anything unless you have to absolutely have to replay something like let's say You know a collar hook is wrong. I don't have a copper one. So I'll get one of the air up That's nickel and have a copper to match So and then there's then the shell a lot of time on those old black beauties the lacquer just gets pitted and really ugly looking a Lot of times I can polish up the original lacquer and it looks really good and go from there but sometimes it's it's it's just so you know pitted and and Thrashed I can just strip the lacquer off get it down to the original black nickel Polished that and then just really clear-coated. So at least I had to add a step But it looks way better than it did So it's like taking an old model T and polishing the black the original black paint, you know without without having to repaint the shell Or repaint and then sealing it like you're saying just to keep it from happening again Yeah, so I do I do restorations on the side.  So, you know We've discussed it before I say here's here's the parts you're missing. Here's the parts that are broke Here's what I can do I can give them I give them both scenarios, you know and If there's a couple of scenarios which way to go and I'll leave it up to them and then you know So oh, yeah to answer your original question. So I'm plating or High-end polishing where I can't do it by hand. I'll go to my platers. They take care of me Yeah, then I can usually get dense out of the shell. Okay, if it's a major dent I'll go to My plater because they're good at taking dense out and I also have a machinist which is down the street from the platers He'll he can fix broken strainers and he's he's amazing. He brings these old parts back to life So I use him a lot for parts that are just trash or bent Or have to be re-threaded because they're stripped. He has saved a lot of a lot of parts So it makes the restoration keeps those parts original. They're just fixed Yeah, yeah, you can't have every skill or tool or no You need like a machine shop is a machine shop. I mean, that's like that do right. Yeah, right, right? Unbelievable. Well, I mean I again if people have snares or drums that are you know, I can't think of a better person Obviously who has more experience with these? Super rare snares, so we'll have all of Mike's info in the description and at the end will give out where they can reach you so All right, maybe a couple more what what that three give us maybe two more What else what else you got? Oh, let's see. We've got duals. Let's see Well, okay, I got a couple of them A black beauty that was owned by William F. Ludwig senior Wow documented Notarized by his son William F. The second when you know 1999 and So I bought that while back and then I also have a Snare drum that William F. The second Own they would say another black beauty. It's called the DFS drum black beauty. It's a black beauty were someone in the on the assembly line, I guess gotten cahoots with the engraver and had his initials in it and the story goes that that William F. Senior kind of saw what was going on stopped the whole assembly and took the drum off the line But he let the guy keep it or buy it and it was in a guy's closet for many many years and then He gave it to the William F. Ludwig the second and then Harry Kang and he bought it a while back and a couple years ago sold it to me So that's kind of you know like a rare drum. It's a six and a half by 14 10-point floral chrome hardware engraved super sensitive top and bottom mechanisms so Yeah, so So those are you know kind of historic drums I love the I feel like with a lot of drums. There's like the like oh the parts from this are like like I think run to net posted a picture of like a Supraphonic that had like the black and white kind of 80s Ludwig Badge and he's like this is a Supra.  You see Ludwig drums with WFL butt plates because of that switch over in the 1960 or so whatever that was just leftover parts Yeah, definitely. It's so cool.  Obviously people listening to this show We're all pretty much big giant drum nerds. So that's just more fun. I'm just like, oh my god, that screw is from 1950 on a 1960 drum. It's like, whoa, cool Gikatron minutia, I call it Yeah, and there's plenty of us in the world in my experience of I mean before I did this show I was a drummer. I mean, I was you know, I've been a longtime drummer, but I wasn't into the vintage drum world And now I'm like yeah made I've made so many friends Obviously these guys who are your great friends, but it's just like I just encourage people as a guy who Me who's you know at the point that point I was 28 I didn't really have any vintage drum experience And now I find myself just obsessed with it where it's so easy to get into it and going to the chicago show was like The best thing I've ever done in my life. Um besides getting married and having a baby, but it um I have to say that but it Getting that network if you're if you're God if you're uh, you know passionate about it people will want to talk to you about it and we want to share our nerdiness So yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's uh, it's a great network, uh, you know, I've met a lot of friends and fellow collectors and Uh, the chicago show I look I look forward to that so much of I hope you too. I hope I hope the You know the the the Brainiacs out there in science come up with a vaccine that works and we can kind of get on the road here And by next May We can be in better shape to be able to yeah, not only for the people that are sick That that comes first obviously, but obviously for the yeah for the uh, but second is us going to a drum show Right, right Yeah, yeah, okay. No, that's awesome. Um All right, so, um I want to also just mention Jim Macina has been such a big, um, yeah, he always he's he's he's shares your stuff a lot and I just Jim is a I we've we we're talking a lot there for a little and then and then things got crazy with Covid and everything so I just want to say, you know, Jim is such a big You know proponent of yours and sharing your information and um with vintage drums talk. So, um So many cool collectors, I just think that you guys are it's a it's like the You know the the legends of collecting so now Why don't we tell people here where they can find your book and all that good stuff? I think it would be um Pretty neat to you know for people to see your collection and and what you know, what's going on in the future with you Well, you first of all you can see all the latest stuff. I do Not so modern drum or it's free online go there and you'll look under the writers. You'll see my name um also Um, you know the two drum the two drum forums that I Participate drum forum Dfo that would be and then the other one is vintage drums um So I I contributed a lot to those Um now as far as my book, um, it's out of print But you can find copies on ebay and you can find copies on amazon And maybe reverb. I haven't checked But I've seen I've seen I think I've seen some copies there. So it can be found that way I'm not sure Any dealers still have leftover copies. It's probably unlikely uh But the two main ways is ebay and uh amazon Okay, called the uh vintage snare drum is the carato collection That's great. Yeah, man. I don't know if you ever Think about it, but I know people would love to see you got to start like a You know a social media page for instagram and just post a picture of a snare every day you've got If you do that, you have years of content. Um, uh, well actually since you mentioned that thanks you uh I have uh on facebook. I have my carato vintage drums and restorations So you can see a bunch of stuff there. Yeah, so it's my carato vintage drums and restorations I'm on facebook Cool. Yeah, man. That's so cool. Now. What's on the horizon for you? Are you now happy? Can you go to sleep at night saying I've got every drum that I ever want to have I know the answer is no All right What are you working on now? What's kind of um in in your in your scope right now? well, um Collecting at the moment, I'm I'm looking always for the rarest of the rare Do I have a lot of rare already? Uh, yeah, so I'm looking what I consider the rarest of the rare um, so it's a little fewer and far between so um Just you know looking at eBay here and there friends call me. Um um I'm always looking for a 4x14 Slayerland black beauty, which I've never seen one. It's in the catalog, but I've never seen one. So I'd like to get something like that Yeah, and uh, does that happen can I ask you does that happen where? Maybe they make something that they put in the catalog or they prototype something But it actually doesn't exist in the real world like does Could that um, yeah You know Probably that could happen. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility um I would hope that if they put it in the catalog at least one of them was out there Yeah, for the picture Yeah, or like the the slingle in the in the 28 catalog where they have the gold plated Engraved artist model. I've never seen any of those You can get you can see the Four five and six and a half uh 10 lug Nickel over brass our artist models, which is the same exact shell It's just not engraved or gold plated.  I mean it's it's that conversion rate that because you see that sometimes where these snares that were that amount of money and it's kind of like a A head scratcher because it's like but these are for a musician who You know by default we're not the most we're not making millions of dollars hundreds of thousands of dollars playing the drums So how are you buying it? Um, yeah So Okay, that's interesting Yeah All right, and just ready. I'm looking just for for rare drums. Maybe oddities, you know that Just you know like a while back. I found a six lug white marine pearl radio king Oh, wow Yeah, so they just kind of odd. I like the audit oddity stuff mostly american I have found a couple of european drums that were cool that uh that I bought because they're they're odd and uh So i'm so Just to answer your question. I'm kind of just looking, you know for the the rare so the rare wherever the wherever those may be Yeah, gotcha. I just did the quick math 120 or I didn't do the math. I did I googled it 125 dollars in 1923 equals 1878 dollars in 2020 so Okay, oh that's that's yeah, that's actually The Yeah, the may have the money conversion But as far as what the drum is go they go for it's another story Oh my god. I mean no, of course, that's that's just saying in that day and time Yeah, where again, this is like, you know people were making I don't know but like Five dollars in a day or something like that. So it's I know Yeah, that's wild. Okay, so um Now, uh, can people see do you display at the drum shows or do you more just go looking to buy? Do you show bring anything with you ever? I can't remember. I don't think I saw you You know displaying anything. No, I sometimes I'll bring You know photos some photos Um for a while I brought like, you know before I started doing articles on not some modern drum I brought a bunch of photos and a binder um But I just I'm I'm going there just to find stuff To schmooze and find stuff Yeah, totally Yeah, now this is probably a totally random question, but I'm assuming that you have to have Like all of your drums. I would assume are insured. So you have You can't have 650 drums and not have you know insurance for your drums, right? Do you just is that some sort of special thing?  I have I have I have coverage Gotcha So I'm I'm somewhat taken care of I live out I live out in the San Francisco Bay Area. So it is earthquake country, but It's not tornado country You know, if I could I hate to You know, be in Oklahoma and have 650 drums flying in the air to the next county or something That would be a drag No, you you don't want that right Cool. Yeah, because there's all those little things that you don't think of of like I mean, there's like you said building custom cases and protecting these things and I imagine temperature control is obviously very important For for some of these moisture, you know So that's so much moisture. I have air conditioning. So the Um, you can it's cool because when it if it gets warm And then uh, you put the air conditioner, you can hear the the the cath heads adjusting. You hear little pops and cracks Yeah, and uh, so in the in the garage, like I said, the drums are covered It gets a little warm out there, but they're in a garage and they're you know Once in a while a bottom cast head will split just because of the elements, but um But pretty much here and I don't live I live maybe 12 miles from the ocean So there's not a whole lot of sea breeze coming in Yeah, really? Wow. Yeah, so So yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, it's you know, the the the weather out here in the San Francisco Bay area Uh, it's pretty mild Yeah, no, I'm just like as we wrap up. I'm just throwing random questions to come. That's okay. My mind at you now Do do you replace calf skin heads? Do you get new like if it's if it's got broken heads and it's a 1935 drum? Are you replacing top and bottom calf skin heads or are you kind of converting to you know a modern? You know my uh drum head I I put calf heads on all my vintage drums I put calf heads This is another thing with having a nice network of friends Like when I go to the Chicago show one one Chicago show a friend of mine had Just seen calf heads that he brought because he knew I'd want to buy him So yes, yeah, I have a I have a stash of of Hundreds of calf heads that I pick from Kind of funny. It's my downstairs. We have an area that has my wife's Wine And then I have my area where my calf heads are so she's picking out a bottle of wine And I'm picking out a calf head to put on a drum so it's kind of ironic Yeah, so I have a I have a I have a lot of calf heads that I like I like that My vintage drums I like to keep them as authentic as I can with calf heads Gut snares wire round snares original parts On my modern day snare drums that I play obviously they're they're built they're uh Used you know with some but you know modern day heads and snares and things like that But on the on the showpiece on the showpieces. I like to keep them original Of course sure god, that's yeah, it would just take you out of it to have a um you know 1923 drum with a uh You know brand new rimo ambassador On it or something like that. Well, if you're gonna if you're gonna play it I have no but if you're gonna play it sure. Yeah, yeah, sure I'm gonna play it put some put some pure sounds or some good, you know, whatever snare wires That you want. I know canopus does make some good uh Uh snare wires uh pure sound that you use some good some good top and bottom heads um Some sometimes on those old strainers you got to replace the strainers so uh what I do load week makes a p80 and The tabs on it do not match the whole pattern for an old nickel over brass Snare them that would have a p338 on it But a front of mine has a jig that he made that can split You know push out the tabs So Let's say you want to make a player drum or or drum that maybe has an extra hole or two And it's you just going to make it a player. You can keep the original hole pattern for this for the strainer and Put in the altered p80 That'll be a little more hardier anyway because some of those p80s come undone when you hit them really hard So like that, you know, you just you know on certain drums Yeah, if you're gonna play them yet Yeah, you have to put the good heads on them because I don't I don't like the sound of cath at all But it's I like the originality of it Yeah, I've seen some um God, who is it? I think it's indy drums indy. They do something where there's the movable Like on their strainer. There's the movable What would you call it um holes to for the for the you know Screws where it would actually be you can move it and slide it to fit your your vintage. Oh, yeah It's kind of a cool Yeah, I've such seen that too. I think I think uh ron de net does that too. I think so too. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, that's a great idea. So you don't you know, you don't put extra holes Because maybe you have an old snare drum That just the strainer is not working, right? But you want to keep it you want to still keep the integrity of it Put that new strainer on it kind of hot rotted and go play it and Yeah, you know after a while or somebody you want to sell it or something put the original strainer back on and everything is good Hmm. Geez. Well, we live in a great time to uh to be collecting drums. Oh, yeah so, um Man mike, I think this has been a really great episode to just kind of hear about Your collection. I mean you're obviously a legend in this world. So um, I think that people should Uh take some time and check out Karado drums.com that's c u r o t to Drums.com you can find mike on facebook at mike karado vintage drums and restorations.  So i'm sure you wouldn't mind people saying hey, I've got this old drum Can you work on it for me? Um, I was gonna say, um, is it kosher to give out my email?  That's that's the best one. Uh, it's mike at karado drums.com Great, and you know, if anybody has questions or Or or people looking to sell something, you know, hey, I buy drums Um questions, I do that because in the early days when I started collecting There were certain people I called and they took their time with me To answer my questions. So I don't mind paying that forward to If I can and again, I'm I'm honest enough. Hey, if I don't know, I'll I'll put you In contact with the right person that knows That's I people ask me. Hey, do you know what drum this is all the time and I go No, but let me ask and now I'll I'll conclude you on that but I'll say let me ask and I ask, you know Joe Mechler or I ask mark cooper. Yeah, no these guys I gotta put a word in I gotta put a word in for joe Can I do that for a second? Oh, please, of course Um, uh To chicago shows ago ago He had um, I bought this drum from him You may have seen it in the not so modern drummer. It was a six and a half by 14 rose pearl dual Very rare Yeah, I saw the photos of it. I first thing I thought was this is this is a part strum The thing was thrashed absolutely thrashed And he took it and he brought it back to life all faithfully. He was able to fix the wrap Fixed the the glue ring the hardware just needed to clean it up, but he did An amazing job I'm just amazing job. Do you if you if you look up that drum on either the form or Not so modern drummer. There's a whole story about it and um That was a monumental restoration. So I just thought I'd put a plug in for joe. Oh, yeah Now joe, he comes up On a lot of episodes. He uh, he was the second He's on episode number two and right now. Oh cool at the time of recording this episode 69 just came out So that's uh, wow, you know two years later. He was he was actually the first person I talked to on the phone Um, when I started the podcast about hey, I have this idea. He did a world war two episode. Um, so yeah Yeah You know, shout out to joe, but uh, yeah, awesome. Mike. Well, I can't tell you how happy I am to have had you on the show It's been a long time coming and um Everyone can go and check out mic. So Mike, thank you for being here My pleasure anytime. I'm always here If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history And please share rate and leave a review and let me know topics that you would like to learn about the future Until next time keep on learning This is a Gwynn sound podcast