much, Presiding Officer. I will cover a couple of areas that the committee has taken evidence on. I know that my colleague John Mason descended in the report on areas around forecasting and has held some very strong views around that. I think that those members on the committee will know that I expressed a number of reservations without going to the extent of dissenting, and I will touch on that in my contribution. In terms of some of the discussion that has been so far, I am always interested in the world according to Jackie Baillie, because Jackie Baillie again held up the OBR as an example of an organisation to which we should aspire. She spoke of a lack of Government interference or intervention, and she spoke of oil forecasting. I wanted to look at a letter that the OBR sent to the committee in July 2014. If I can quote from that letter, our medium-term forecast for oil and gas production is based on projections by the Department for Energy and Climate Change. That strikes me as the OBR relying on Government projections and forecasting in order to facilitate its work. Later on, because the Scottish Government was predicting $113 barrel for oil or that it was some sort of outlier in terms of the international projections around oil price, later on in the letter it says on prices. In our central scenario, oil prices rise from $102 a barrel in 2015 to $160 a barrel in 2040. Under the EIA high price scenario shown above, oil prices rise from $138 a barrel in 2015 to $350 a barrel in 2040. Even later on, it says that, under the EIA low price scenario, it was predicting price drop to $77 a barrel in 2015. The idea that the Scottish Government was way out left field in terms of oil price projections and that there were a range of soothsayers out there who had correctly predicted what was going to happen in terms of oil price simply does not bear scrutiny in any way, shape or form. If I can have a little bit of time back, I will take the intervention. Will you have to take it out of your own time? Well, I will talk fast then. I think that the point that I was making is that perhaps nobody could have made that assessment and that judgment. Therefore, some of the independent of government would instill more confidence whether they get the actual thing right or not. I just make the note that the OBR actually predicted a lower level than the Scottish Government did. I am quite sure, Presiding Officer, that were the projections that the Scottish Government used based on something that was produced by the Scottish Fiscal Commission. Jackie Baillie would, in no way, criticise or impugn those projections, as I know that she would never seek to do that. Let us look at forecasting, Presiding Officer, because that is where the sort of nub of the disagreement arises in this. I share the reservations that John Mason has around this and, indeed, that the commissioners themselves have around this. I hear the point that is being raised around the role that the finance committee could perform in terms of scrutiny, but I have reservations about that. I do not think that I am in a better position than Professor Andrew Hughes Hallott to scrutinise forecasts that are made and to bring scrutiny to bear on those. What I think is important first and foremost is that the projections are analysed and scrutinised and that we can have confidence in those projections. I believe that, when the Scottish Fiscal Commission provides its sale of approval in relation to those, I believe that that is an important endorsement for those projections. I do believe, and I am listening to the evidence from academics who came before the committee, that there is a need for academic expertise and capacity to be built up in this area. I think that, as the powers come to this Parliament and as things develop, that is something that will happen and will enhance the work that is being done by the Scottish Government in terms of forecasting and the commission in terms of analysis. At this early stage, to give the commission the responsibility for the official forecasts, while that other capacity does not yet exist, I believe that we would be jumping the gun in relation to that. Thank you so much. I am now calling on John Mason to be forwarded by Dr Lane Murray. Up to four minutes please. Thank you, Presiding Officer. There's a lot of good comments and recommendations in this report and I completely associate myself with the bulk of them. Clearly, one of the main topics that we're discussing this afternoon and have been discussing in committee is who should do the forecasting. On this point, I descended from the committee's stage 1 report, as can be seen at paragraph 69 and 136, so I will focus most of my remarks on this. I have to say that I do find this a slightly unusual position to be in. The committee and the Government are disagreeing on this point and I, myself, am siding with the Government. I hope that members will believe that that is not out of my fear of challenging the Government, but comes from genuine belief. The OBR is a relatively unusual model whereby the Government has outsourced forecasting to them and the model proposed in the bill, whereby Government forecasts and commission comments on that, is much more common. I do not think that we should be fixated on the way that London does things and I do feel that some of the witnesses that came to our committee were slightly overawed by London. Jean Urquhart and myself visited the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council in Dublin and, broadly, this is the model that they have checking on challenging the Government forecasts. Sure, they are still developing, as our SFC is, and can do some forecasting along the way, but, essentially, they are looking at and challenging Government forecasts. This is the model that I used, as I suggested earlier, for audits and for Audit Scotland, which seems to me to work pretty well. Audit Scotland is an independent body that examines the Scottish Government, local government, NHS and so on, and it produces very challenging and respected reports, in my opinion, which often attract media attention with politicians on all sides, often referring to them and quoting them. It seems to me that this is a good model that we can follow where the Government produces the forecasts and the SFC does the checking and challenging. However, the need for independence is absolutely essential. However, independence is not linked to who does the forecasts. Rather, I suggest that independence comes from, firstly, having proper checks and balances in place and, secondly, having the right people on the commission, particularly meaning that they have the courage to challenge the Government, and that is referred to in paragraphs 41 and 42. The challenging of the forecast is really important. Just last week, at the Finance and Constitution Committee, we had the SFC with us, and we are examining its report on the draft budget. It runs, as members may have seen, to some 60 pages, and I thought that it was excellent. However, some of it is quite technical. For example, paragraph 3.32, it considers the pros and cons of univariate or multivariate modelling approach. I suspect that some members in this Parliament might be struggling to explain the difference. If the SFC was to produce the forecasts, who would challenge them? Clearly, Government is not independent enough, and the Finance Committee, as Mark McDonald has said, does not have the in-depth skills required. Would we then need another body? I asked the SFC themselves last week and the Cabinet Secretary yesterday about the question, and neither of them could give me an answer. In my opinion, that is because the OBR model is not a good model. We even heard yesterday, as I mentioned earlier, that the OBR is hampered by not being able to exchange information between different Government departments. Cost is a factor here, too. Are we saying that a relatively small country like Scotland, with pretty limited powers over tax and economy, needs two organisations doing the forecasting? That would cost us a bit. Should the Scottish Government just not do any forecasting, that would seem a bit strange. The SFC is a potential budget of £850,000, although it assures us that it will try not to spend at all. That compares very favourably with the Irish 800,000 euros and the Swedish 1 million euros. I feel that they are being well resourced, and I do not consider that we should be upping the budget more to duplicate the work. Although, quite a technical area, the subject has been fascinating, I think that we have carried out a pretty thorough study of the issues, and I can say of every respect for the three commission members, Lady Rice, Professor Hughes-Hallot and Professor Leith. I am happy to support the recommendations, the main recommendations, of the committee. Thank you. Many thanks. Excellent. No call on Dr Lane-Mode, followed by Joan McAlpine. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I start by congratulating the Finance Committee on the considerable amount of work that has undertaken on this issue. Not just on this bill that was introduced at the end of September last year, the committee also undertook a significant piece of work producing its own reports and proposals for a Scottish Fiscal Commission almost two years ago, and also undertook visits to Stockholm and Dublin last year to meet with the Swedish and Irish Equivalents of the Fiscal Committee, along with representatives of government, Parliament and fiscal forecasters. I thought that Brody's speech seemed to suggest that Sweden did not have an equivalent. If that is the case, I wonder what members of the committee were doing in Stockholm. I read the committee report with considerable interest. It raises some very important points that were eloquently summed up by the convener. The Scottish Fiscal Commission is intended to be an independent fiscal institution. The tension between the SFC being able to influence the Scottish Government's forecasts and providing an independent assessment of those forecasts was thoroughly discussed, and the report makes several recommendations, including a memorandum of understanding between the Scottish Government and the commission. The report points out that more clarity is required regarding the functions of the committee and greater transparency on how it carries out those functions. The bill requires the SFC to lay its report on the reasonableness of the Scottish Government's tax forecasts on the same day as the draft budget is lodged, and any other reports to Parliament must be copied to ministers in advance of their report being laid. Some witnesses, such as the Royal Society of Edinburgh, argued that, in order to ensure transparency, commission assessments of government forecasts should be carried out after the publication. The committee itself recommended that the SFC must be able to challenge and criticise Government publicly when necessary, and any disagreements that it has with the Government and the outcomes of discussions on those disagreements should be published, and I greet and welcome that. The financial memorandum to the bill states that it relates only to the powers transferred under the Scotland Act 2012. For understandable reasons, it does not relate to the additional powers that will be transferred as a result of the debate on the current Scotland Act. Resourcing of the SFC will therefore require to be reviewed in the light of the Scottish Government's additional tax-raising responsibility and the additional responsibilities that will therefore be placed on it. Resourcing does not seem to have been included to enable the commission to undertake its own forecasts. The majority of witnesses did argue that the SFC should produce their official forecasts. Professor McGregor and Swales pointed out that forecasting, whether official or otherwise, is international practice, and the experience of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council was that it soon realised that it needed to produce its own forecasts in order to be able to endorse, or presumably not endorse, the Government's forecasts. Resourcing for forecasting therefore would need to appear to be necessary. The committee will report rightly questions the ability of the processes contained in the bill to demonstrate the independence of the SFC. The recommendations on page 12 state that it depends on a high level of behind-the-scenes interaction between that and the Government, including seeking agreement on methods or testing numbers and propositions. As has already been discussed, the committee has therefore recommended that commission should produce the official forecasts. On the issue of governance and who appoints the committee, I note that the committee supports the appointment process that is described by the bill and that members are appointed by ministers but approved by Parliament. I accept that the committee has perused that evidence and I respect that view. I would just comment that having recently been involved in the appointment of the chair of the Scottish Human Rights Commission, I feel that there is considerable merit in appointments being made by Parliament in order to secure cross-party agreement and cross-party confidence, and that latter will be essential if the SFC is to operate effectively, as I say. I accept the committee's view on that. Just in closing, I have been a member of the Justice Committee for the last two years, having previously been on the finance committee. It has influenced and changed legislation, and therefore I am hopeful that the finance committee will have that role here. I am happy to support the bill at stage 1, but I hope that the views of the finance committee prevail in the long run. I am going to take a slightly different tactic today and look more generally at forecasting and its reliability or rather unreliability. Others have mentioned oil forecasting, and I have in front of me the Department of Energy climate change July 2013 fossil fuel price projections. When they predicted a low of $92 per barrel and a high of $137 per barrel for 2015, so, even when predictions are made by experts, they often go wrong. In October 1929, for example, on 21 October 1929, the Yale economics professor, Ivan Fisher, said that stocks have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau. Three days later, it was black Thursday and the market collapsed and the Great Depression arrived. In 1984, the Economist newspaper conducted an unusual survey for its Christmas issue. It invited four former finance ministers, four chairmen of big multinational companies, four Oxford University students and four London bin men, or dustmen, as they call them down there, to offer their predictions on the economy over the next 10 years. A decade later, the accuracy of their forecast was checked and each group was given a mark for their predictions. The bin men scored a joint top along with the company bosses. In fact, the bin men demonstrated more foresight than any other group when it came to the price of oil, so perhaps that's where we all went wrong. As Economist John Kenneth Gilbrace once said, the only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable. I'm only half serious when I see those things, but even the independent OBR, as others have said, which has been suggested as a model for the commission to emulate, admitted in their 2012 forecast evaluation report that projections are always a best guess. They said that we have been at pains to point out that there is enormous uncertainty around any economic forecast and that policy makers and others need to recognise that when taking decisions based on them. In any event, HMRC, as others have noted, continues to produce tax forecasts on behalf of the OBR. In January last year, Edward Troop, second permanent secretary at HMRC, told the finance committee that we measured forecasts and the published forecasts are signed off by the OBR. Although the OBR has been praised for its independence from our perspective, the process feels very much the same as it was when the Treasury was doing the forecasting. We had the same conversations with colleagues in the Treasury, and the Treasury would make those forecasts. If the Scottish Fiscal Commission prepares official forecasts, it may be similarly reliant on Scottish Government and Revenue Scotland data and resources leading to duplication of efforts within the commission and the Government, as others have noted. The most important thing in my view is that its role as a commentator is right. Its independence must be assured and is being assured by the bill to make sure that it is fully resourced and duplication might not ensure that it is fully resourced. That is very important because it needs to develop analytical capability in order and capacity in order to provide a benchmark set of projections. Of course, it will be free to make its own forecasts and that offers a wider range of options. It is answerable to the Parliament, and I assume that it was the finance committee of its Parliament that has shown its independence in the report. I am confident that the initial remit of the commission will be expanded to reflect further powers as they are devolved to the Scottish Parliament. I welcome the bill. I note the purpose of the Fiscal Commission to provide independent scrutiny of Government tax forecasts and economic conditions. In passing, as I have done before, I put on my convener's hat and recognised that the ancillary powers and the other delegated powers were considered by the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee. We had no concerns whatsoever about what was being proposed. Clearly, there has been discussion about the independence of the forecasting. Before I turn to that, could I just look at the way in which it is suggested that the members of the commission will be appointed? As Dr Lane Murray has commented, they will be appointed by the Government. They will be removable. It is a matter of some concern that that should be on appropriate terms. However, I noticed looking at the bill in section 16, 1b1, that it is only when they are otherwise unfit or make themselves unavailable that they can be removed. Then it would only be with the approval of the Scottish Parliament. It seems to me that that is about as good as it is going to get in a parliamentary democracy, and that is probably the right way to do it. I welcome the minister's comments about allowing commission members to have a second term and having defined lengths and the already agreed point that they should be staggered, because continuity in this is extremely important. There have been some comments about whether or not the bill restricts the functions of the commission. The commission itself suggested that it would like to have other powers to be able to assess. That is in page 3 of the submission. Both the sustainability of Scotland's public finances and indeed the adherence of the Scottish Government to its own financial rules. It does seem to me, presiding off to section 2-3, probably covers all that. I would just like to read that the commission may from some time to time prepare reports setting out its assessment of the reasonableness of such financial factors, other than those mentioned in paragraph A to D of subsection 1 above, as it considers appropriate. It does seem to me that that is wide enough to cover precisely the things which they had mentioned and probably pretty much anything else that might come up. If I could skip on then, pass the discussion about the independence of forecast, which I don't think I really have time to add to, to look at the question of reasonableness, because I think it was Kevin Brown commented on whether or not that was appropriate. Indeed, Dr Richard Simpson mentioned methodology and final numbers. Can I suggest to the chamber that what is being proposed is probably very sensible? I was much struck a few years ago, back in the days when planes used to crash rather more often than they must fully do now, when our following a plane crash, the chairman of the company came on the TV and assured us that these planes were run with two parallel computer systems and it was quite impossible that both would have failed at the same time, demonstrating that he wasn't a systems man at all because he completely missed the point that if you give the same system the same data it will make the same mistake. The only way you will get different economic predictions is by having a different methodology because you will undoubtedly be putting in the same basic data assuming you've even got it. I think Professor Andrew Hughes Hallett put it very nicely in his evidence to the committee. When asked by the convener Kenneth Gibson about what reasonableness was about, he said that the prediction should get better from year to year to quote, they should be better than they were last year. He wants to see better data. We understand it's not there. It seems to me the whole of this, Presiding Officer, is in its infancy. We are starting in a good place. We need to recognise that it will develop and what's before us now actually isn't the finished article but it seems to me to be a very good place to start. Thank you. Many thanks. Before we move to closing speeches just invite all members to return for the closing speeches, those who have taken part in the open debate. Now call on Gavin Brown, four minutes please. It's been interesting debate, Presiding Officer, and it's pleasing to hear a number of members praising the work of the Finance Committee. I think it's worth reflecting of a comment made by Jeremy Pete of the International Public Policy Institute at the University of Strathclyde. He published a paper just last month which said that the Finance Committee of the Scottish Parliament is to be praised for its continuing robust examination of the Government's proposals and willingness to seek and take full account of informed commentary. I think it's worth the Government reflecting again upon the report and the central conclusions reached by the majority of the Finance Committee in terms of looking at stage 2 and stage 3. If we proceed with the bill as it is without substantial change, we will in my view be left with a group of highly qualified advisers. It will be ultimately an advisory role which they will be performing. Yes, they will scrutinise in private, yes, they will challenge the Government, but if the only forecast ever published is the final result with which the commission says that it is deemed to be reasonable, then we are not getting the level of scrutiny that we require and we are not, in my view, getting what is defined internationally as an independent fiscal institution. That's what this Parliament I think wants and needs and I think it becomes more important with each extra power that we get. Of course I'll give it. Across the world, in OECD countries, the overwhelming majority of independent fiscal institutions do not produce the forecasts and the forecasts are produced by the Government and the institutions assess those forecasts. The minister needs to go into a bit more depth on that issue because, as I said by opening, some institutions do the official forecasts, some produce their own unofficial forecasts and others scrutinise the Government forecasts alongside several other independent forecasts. If we proceed with the bill as it is, we will be the only fiscal institution that I can find on the planet and I've put the question to the Government at least half a dozen times. We'll be the only one that scrutinises solely the official Government forecasts. As we've heard from the convener and many experts, Governments, by definition, regardless of their stripes, will have an optimism bias. Governments want to do things. Government don't want to have the blocks put upon them and therefore there is an optimism bias. I don't want to dwell on oil revenues but that was a clear example of this Government when they produced their oil revenue projections just before the referendum that optimism bias affects them as much as any other Government. I'm sure that I'm happy to give way to Mr McDonnell. At the same time, if we look at LBTT, for example, where the Scottish Government's projections on LBTT and the OBR's projections on LBTT were a long way apart and the OBR has had to continually revise its projections for LBTT and the other devolved taxes downward in order to bring it more in line with the Scottish Government's more realistic estimates. The Scottish Government, on a smaller tax, was closer to the mark but it was miles adrift on a far, far larger tax at a time that would have affected this country hugely. I just have to say to Mr McDonnell that I'm a little surprised and disappointed at his position in the debate today. The report was published a week ago and he signed up to that report going away from any paragraphs. He signed up to the entire report, including the central conclusions, eight days later. He tries to distance himself from the central conclusion. I leave it to him to defend that position, but I do think that if committee members in this Parliament sign up to a report, they ought to stand by that report and not fall away from it just a week later. The crucial point here is in relation to forecasting. There are big dangers of having only an official Government forecast. That's why we reached the conclusions that we did. The weaknesses in the bill go deeper than that. The idea of just assessing reasonableness, whether it's commenting on the final numbers, doesn't go anywhere near far enough. The idea that any disagreements over numbers are never published and put in the public domain so that they can be scrutinised to me is unacceptable and go against the basic OECD principles. Again, if we stick with the Government position, we would be the only fiscal institution on the planet that we've been able to find that looks only a Government forecast. We will vote for the bill. We support the setting up of the Scottish Fiscal Permission, but they have to be more than just advisers. If we want to get it right, but eventually we'll be talking about billions upon billions of pounds, we have to get it right, and that's why we'll need changes at stage 2 and stage 3. If we match now Colin Lewis Macdonald's six minutes thereby, please, Mr Macdonald. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. This has been a productive debate. The convener of the Finance Committee and a number of its members have laid out the basis of their report very clearly and I think have pointed us towards the changes that we will undoubtedly debate at stage 2. Of course, we all agree on the need for an independent fiscal institution for a devolved Scotland. The nature of the Scottish Parliament is changing thanks to both the Scotland Act 2012 and the changes arising from the Smith agreement. The question is whether the Scottish Fiscal Commission as currently proposed is fit for purpose or whether more should still be done to give it the power that it needs to do its job. The 2012 act prompted the creation of the Scottish Fiscal Commission in 2014, which Jackie Baillie summarised initially as a non-statutory body to deal with issues surrounding the taxes devolved for the first time to the Scottish Parliament. With a further bill set to devolve much more extensive financial powers, it is clear that the role of the Fiscal Commission needs to be formalised, placed on a statutory footing, independent of ministers, so we welcome this bill, but we want to see its strength and further. The main functions of the Fiscal Commission as proposed would be to assess fiscal forecasts produced by other organisations principally and to commission research and appoint committees to consider relevant issues. Unlike the Office for Budget Responsibility, as members have said, it would not produce its own fiscal sustainability report nor would it have the power to examine the affordability or sustainability of policies. Even to carry out the more limited functions intended for it, the commission will require access to financial information from the Government. As we have heard, the bill does allow the commission to have access, but not to publish relevant information from the Government and other Government agencies such as Revenue Scotland. The committee has rightly called for that right of access to be established on a statutory basis. There could be no meaningful assessment of fiscal forecasts produced by the Scottish Government without the relevant information being to hand, and that, after all, is the point of creating this new body. Independence from the Scottish Government is another key aspect of this legislation and an issue that a number of members have touched on this afternoon. The organisation for economic cooperation and development has developed a number of minimum requirements for independent fiscal institutions, and the importance of that independence is covered in some depth. For example, the independence in the recruitment and management of staff was highlighted by the Scottish Government's own Council for Economic Advisers in its 2013 report on fiscal rules and fiscal commissions, when it said that an important aspect is to avoid institutional capture whereby those working in an independent fiscal commission are formally or informally part of the Government. That clearly is something to which we would all subscribe and is the whole point of our fiscal commission. Like Audit Scotland, which has also been mentioned today, it must be free to speak truth to those with power, and it must not depend on the goodwill of ministers to respect the proper boundaries. If the Government's own advisers understand that point, then ministers should accept it too. That is of particular importance during the transition period from the fiscal commission being on a non-statutory to a statutory basis. For example, seconding staff with relevant expertise and experience from the Scottish Government might be helpful to get the fiscal commission started, but that must not be done in a way that compromises its independence or makes it dependent on any Government directive. It is not just about staffing and recruitment. Without the powers that are enjoyed by the OBR to produce its own economic and fiscal forecasts, the Scottish Fiscal Commission will be wholly reliant on the figures that are produced by the Scottish Government in making its assessment. There has been some discussion about whether the capacity of the Office of Budget Responsibility to produce its own fiscal forecasts is unusual or whether that unusual character is significant. Of course, other such bodies do the same sort of thing in Belgium and the Netherlands. It is common for fiscal institutions in other countries to use information and focus from both Government and independent experts, as members of the committee have witnessed for themselves. Will the member recognise that the bill as drafted does not prohibit the Scottish Fiscal Commission from producing its own figures or looking at any other figures that it wishes to forecast? Indeed it does not, but, as we have heard in the debate today, some of those who resist the proposition that the Fiscal Commission should produce its own forecasts have said that for it to do so would be duplication. Of course, there is no statutory bar to it. What is being argued by the finance committee is that it should encourage it and make it possible and should specifically provide for it. That is what is the deficit here today. The minister in prior interventions has suggested that independent forecasting is not done by many other parallel bodies. In some way, that implies that it should not be done here. Surely in devising appropriate institutions for a modern devolved Scotland, we should be seeking not the weakest form of independence or power but the most robust. That is what the finance committee has proposed and that is what the Government should at least take back and consider again before stage 2. The commission should have the power to test the Government's fiscal rules and the long-term sustainability of the public finances. On transparency, the Scottish Government's reluctance to reveal details of disagreements is revealing in itself. All those matters have rightly been highlighted in today's debate, and I look forward to continuing cross-party efforts to improve the bill further at stage 2. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I genuinely thank members for their contributions in today's debate and for offering their views on the Scottish Fiscal Commission bill. The Government of course considers those views as the bill continues through its parliamentary process to passing at decision time today. I will cover some of the points that were raised. Richard Simpson and Nigel Don also talked about additional powers and additional functions. One of the points that Dr Simpson suggested was the idea of longer-term scrutiny. This year, we published a five-year forecast for the devolved taxes with the 2016-17 budget, which was scrutinised by the Scottish Fiscal Commission. However, he was perhaps also talking about additional powers coming to the Parliament. The Government is clear that, when those additional powers come to the Parliament, we will bring forward proposals to consult on how the commission's remit should be expanded. One of the areas that the committee talked about was the issue of long-term sustainability of public finances. The Government is very much of the view that that is primarily a role of members of the Scottish Parliament to hold the Government to account and to hold ministers directly to account for the robustness of our financial judgment. However, in doing that, I think that the Parliament, as an institution, will be looking to make sure that members have the resources so to do. I remember when I was a member of the finance committee in the last Parliament, there was no financial scrutiny unit, so that was an innovation of the Parliament in order to bolster the robustness of the support that could be given to members as the Parliament's powers grew. I think that that is a very important point. John Mason, Mark McDonald and Joe McAlpine all made reference to the arrangements around the office of budget responsibility. The fact is that that is not as transparent as people once perhaps thought it was. HMRC continues to produce tax forecasts on behalf of the OBR as the second permanent secretary at HMRC told the committee in January of last year. There is a lack of transparency over the nature or effect of the OBR scrutiny of forecasts prepared by HMRC. It is that transparency that the Scottish Government is determined to make sure exists in the process that we take forward. If the Government is so keen on transparency, why are they not going to publish any numerical disagreements between the fiscal commission and the Government? Why do I not come to that point right now? In his contribution earlier, Gavin Brown suggested that the DfFM had said that he would block the publication of such figures. I have got the official report, and I have got what the Deputy First Minister specifically said. The Deputy First Minister said that I do not think that the word for the Deputy First Minister specifically said that I would have a quick look at the bill because I suspect that it might be a conflict with section 7 if I was to block such a proposition, although I would argue strongly against its desirability. While the Deputy First Minister said that he was unconvinced about the desirability of publishing two sets of figures, he made it very clear that he was not in his power to block such things. He has gone further. I will go very quickly. If the Government is saying that the minister just said that it is keen on transparency, why is he not then encouraging transparency? I thank the member for helping me to come to my second point. In the letter from the Deputy First Minister to the committee, which I am sure the member has read, I shall quote again. The Deputy First Minister says in the letter in response to the stage of the report that, while I have reservations about the public interest that will be served by publishing multiple forecasts, I am willing to revisit the committee's recommendations that the original and revised forecasts should be published where changes are made to the Scottish Government's forecast following commission scrutiny. That is absolutely the way that the Deputy First Minister and the Government have approached this. We are listening to the committee. Dr Simpson praised the committee and the work that it has done and the way that the report is written. I echo that. There has been a very thorough piece of work being done here. It is fair to say that we remain unconvinced by the committee's central disagreement with the Government on who produces the forecasts, but we are very keen to work with the committee on helping to ensure that the commission is not just independent, but it is very much seemed to be independent to look to see where we can work with the committee to improve transparency, and those are very important points. One of the points that seem to have been suggested is that somehow it would be difficult for the commission or we should be suggesting to the commission that, as part of the process, it should be producing alternative forecasts. Jackie Baillie and her interventions in the committee session called it the third way, which is a way that is replicated in some of the countries that were visited in Sweden in particular. There are alternative forecasts produced by the institute, and that is absolutely something that is allowed for in the bill. The bill specifically has provisions that would allow the commission to publish those forecasts. However, it is very clear that it is not necessary. The Institute for Monetary Fund and its written evidence to stage 1 said that there is no need for the SFC to present its own forecasts, so it is really up to the commission to determine. The minister said that the bill has provisions that say that it can publish forecasts. Which provisions in the bill specifically say that the Scottish Fiscal Commission can publish forecasts? The bill clearly allows for the forecasts to be produced. Section 25 clearly allows for the commission to publish any writings that it wants to publish. The commission, as it has been brought forward, is an independent institution. One of the big suggestions is the idea of the secondary alternative forecasts. It is absolutely for the commission to determine whether it wants to do that. Clearly, the commissioners, Lady Susan Rice, are not of the view that that would be helpful. She said that we think that there needs to be one producer and one assessor of the official forecast. If you were to turn the fiscal commission and say that we have changed our minds, you do the forecast, we would need to be assessed by someone. If we did our own forecast, then we would need to defend it. We too might be biased. That was also concurred by Professor Andrew Hughes-Hallert, who, on 25 November, said that, then there is the question of second opinions. We are doing a kind of second opinion exercise. The Government will produce its forecast and we will provide a second opinion. Doing it this way around gives us freedom to compare the Government's forecast with other forecasts. I think that being asked to do the official forecast would seriously compromise our independence. Another thing that I think would seriously compromise the independence would be if we were to tell the commission that they had to produce alternative forecasts. In his report to the committee, Ian Leonard, who was the independent consultant that produced the report in public finance, was commissioned by the finance committee to produce a report into that. He said that it is rare for an independent fiscal institution to be obliged by legislation to prepare alternative fiscal forecasts. While it is absolutely clear that they can do it, it would, I think, be detrimental to their independence if we were to sit here and say, you must do that. I think that it has been a fantastic debate and I thank all members for their contributions and I hope that everyone will be able to support the general principles at decision time. Thank you. That concludes the debate on stage one of the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill. The next item of business is consideration of motion number 14626. In the name of John Swin and the financial resolution for the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill, I call on Jo Fitzpatrick to move the motion in the name of John Swinney. The next item of business is consideration of business motion 15324. In the name of Jo Fitzpatrick, on behalf of the parliamentary bureau, setting a revision to the business programme for Tuesday 19 January, any member who wishes to speak against the motion should press the request speak button now, and I call on Jo Fitzpatrick to move motion number 15324. Thank you. No member has asked to speak against the motion. Therefore, I now put the question to the chamber. The question is that motion number 15324 in the name of Jo Fitzpatrick be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The motion is therefore agreed to. We now come to decision time. The first question is that motion number 15304 in the name of Angela Constance, on the Higher Education Government Scotland Bill, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The Parliament is not agreed. We move to vote. Members should cast their votes now. The result of the vote on motion number 15304 in the name of Angela Constance is as follows. Yes, 84. No, 20. There were no abstentions. The motion is therefore agreed to. The next question is that motion number 15303 in the name of John Swinney, on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The motion is therefore agreed to. The next question is that motion number 14626 in the name of John Swinney on the Financial Resolution for the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The motion is therefore agreed to. That concludes decision time. I now close this meeting.


Okay, so I'm Bruce Wilson and my organization is Service Render Incorporated. I am the executive director of that organization. We've been doing this work in Primal and Chitty County since 1999. Arts So Wonderful is one of our programs because we have many programs like United College Club, Gift Fit for Mod, Vermont Logo Art and Music, Straight Talk for Mod. We have a lot of programs that we facilitate and it's basically our programs are geared to help people with their goals, dreams and aspirations while providing safe places that they can actually come to and have a good time for free. And so do we offer internships and community service opportunities which we all should do have some community service opportunities. And so I would say that it's kind of like a systemic organization. We're going to help you with your needs in the world or things in your goals. And we use our community partners as well as people who do the things that you might want to do to help us and help that individual meet their goals in life. And you're working with young people throughout Vermont or Chitty County? Well primarily our organization is Chitty County organization. But we do work with Rutherland County individuals and do we do work in Franklin County you know and yeah in Addison County as well because we work for Middlebury College. So what we do is everything I just said we did you know we have a program called United College Club and primarily we work with students who go to those college like UVM, St. Mike's, John's, St. Lane, Norris, Calfston and Middlebury. Primarily the college that we work with with students. And we help them like I said with jobs, job selling, mentoring, opportunities. We help them with most importantly internships. I have six interns and thank God for those interns. I'm telling you and the good thing about it is they do we help them do the things they want to do in life based on what their major in it is you know we might ask them to help us paint a mural, help us you know facilitate a program in our you want our centers or something you know. But also but if they're like a PR personnel they want to be a doctor, a lawyer, or an Indian chief then we connect them to those people that they are. And quite frankly we have a success rate of helping these individuals. They get jobs, they get get the experience like for instance like our art so wonderful program started around 2000 really 2001 and so how was named it was named from college interns at UVM. It was our college interns. They wanted to do art programs. They actually wanted to teach elementary they want to be our teachers and teach elementaries, middle school kids, arts all different things you know. And so you know they helped us you know with all the different things for youth centers and we had the malls and all kind of with the youth. But we helped them with their goals and art so wonderful was started with them. And what it was was we had an office down on in the old North End of North Street where we work primarily with individuals, the community, the families and businesses there you know North Street being at maybe still be the highest risk and economically challenged probably one in the in the neighborhoods in the state.  And these kids came to our every like two or three times a week to our place in our office space for a nice little gathering room too we can do these things work out and they would teach these kids like charcoal drawing or they went out to landscape painting. They you know all you know regular painting in our center. Oh my god so what happened was when we did what those girls did and then what we did was help these help the community also providing some activity keeping kids in low risk where it can be the place where there's no drugs and not called tobacco and learn about art. And um and what we did for the college in terms was now as they wanted to be our art teacher they got to learn what it would it would it be um what it would be to work with elementary and middle school kids and not only that they was able to design curriculum you know and Ben and Jerry's response we're bringing ice cream you know so you know I think at first the kids come for the ice cream you know but that was like come on kids come here some bit of Jerry's now I learned some arts you know and um and so art so wonderful evolved um well well the name evolved but career since 1999 we were doing a graffiti removal program it was through um it was through our program at the time straight talk for my you know which um we changed the name in 2017 service rendering because my board said all we do is render service you know so we just say the name straight talk with my meaning being straight with yourself you know and community and everything you do that's what straight talk about man and um and so so we had a graffiti abatement program and we created through the community Justin and we're talking about founding member of the community just around the state and we had a graffiti abatement program and then so um what happens what individuals who got in trouble by doing graffiti would um like the course course and rapid it was sort of just spent all these people who sent them to me straight talk for my you know go see Bruce and clean up that dig on you know mirror the tags you made so i because i believe in restoring justice i said let's go go clean up and everybody should help um let's now you can do a beautiful mural that you can show your mama she can help you police gonna hand you the paintbrush whatever you know and um so that's how our uh graffiti removal program started normally we don't put murals over over blank walls all our murals go over graffiti walls because we still have a graffiti abatement program and in 2001 i learned through my studies about um doing murals and art whatever that um if you put a mural over graffiti um graffiti vandals or you know they they honor it they don't go bomb the wall this they call it bomb the wall they don't bomb the wall because they just like coat of ethnics you know saying and so you know very seldom do they do that you know that anyone's that they bomb on our wall we go fix it right quick but the good thing about it too is about we have a like a secret about why people don't bomb our walls and this is the secret it's not really a secret is that i want to any anybody to know this and so they can do it too because our stuff is no secret we want everybody to do if they see something good that we do to do it and if we can help you do it let's do it but anyways so because those individuals the bomb the wall guys will come refer to me through restorative justice panels course and rapid rapid intervention you know community justice center um reparative um boards um and we give an opportunity to put real nice murals up there guess what every time those bombers see those and their name on the wall they don't bomb the wall because that's like they you know comfort that's they boy that's they peeps you know saying they even though these people have got better because now they do and work on cameras and murals and arts you know make a lot of money doing this work but they frenzy they name and and they honor they don't bomb the wall and we tell our guys if you know any bombers tell them quit bombing the walls around brones and brown state you know and just come see me because i have a wall for them i mean so that's our but let me tell you a quick story about the individuals just we talked about these individuals who came through the course course rapid and all these to refer to me and we gave them opportunity to clean up there what they messed up and then part of their community if you got 50 hours and he's like 24 hour hours the same theory they clean the wall i guess what the other 25 hours gonna go on you for you doing the wall you know and we buy all the paint but but the thing is that now we have some stories where individuals came to our courts and just want to know about our programs because um we have some good outcome measurements from them is that this individuals one of them i can think of many of these same type artists tear to me one a bruise i want to stop putting art on canvas i say wow that's awesome let's put out on canvas he stopped putting art on canvas and then so so we showed his art at first that daily daily planet then we showed him at the echo center then we showed him at the um flint space this guy was popular you know saying he's got his art and people's buying and we and we had our art show every year as you know cctv know at the um marriott we do this at a going on ninth year free to artists and he did this stuff he was selling works out of there for two to three thousand dollars this kid and so then he so and then he said bruise i'm going to college because i'll kill you know our programs like you know how i learned how can we get you in college with our school or whatever you want to do and um he said i'm going to college and i already applied now this needs you give me a reference so i said where you want to go he said pratt institute so he went to pratt institute he graduated after that institute then he was sending me email selling me some photos i mean his pictures in uh north carolina in a in a museum like a narrow museum my man and so like so this is this is why i get excited about doing this work and this is why i see that um i see just what we do for people i have many many studying and cct know tv know me that i have many many stories about i can talk about individual meeting that goes and and it ain't about me it's about the people who i serve because i serve them they don't serve me and i help them for real with their gold strings and aspirations by the people i know i can't do it you know i have like 200 master's degrees or phd's on knowing people that can help these people that's what i'm the best at you know what i'm saying is that like they want to know about media productions i'm coming and you know it i've done it come to cct tv all the time i don't try to act like i know anything about i i but i do know you know making all wrong and people like you know who help who helps me i do know those people and sure enough i don't know how many years i've done that and cctv know that i do that and so so you want to talk about this black life matters music because um the black life okay so black life matters museum i mean um mural it was like so we work with on the city like like i said through the through our graffiti removal programs and we also put on we also we also put um art on the wall um murals of you know walls and so for so co-enforcement and they do they clean up um walls like they did they clean up this wall here and um so i was asking to talk to bill ward about um you know we're showing each other stuff we did about do we have a wall that we can you know that he put the graffiti or i mean that he cleaned up um that we can have because i know for fact when you just paint over it just a canvas they'll come back and do it again but you put a mural on it they won't you know i mean in theory that's how i've been working for us i would say 97 percent of time they don't and if they do we come right out and make it nice again you know what i'm saying right be quick quick but anyways so we gave a show of this wall and i showed it to showed it to um my um lead muralist person named j jamie bidard b-e-d-e-r-d b-e-d-a-r-d i have to spell it for myself i can jamie bidard and um she's she's amazing she doesn't i actually do our mural she designed and we get our team or our programs to help us to do it you know but so she designed this one and first she had she had um gave me the draft design it was all flowers and it was going to be beautiful big old sunflower it was going to be a beautiful wall with these flowers you know and then um all the things hit the news and you know as being african-american myself i felt that um i'm affected you know certainly i am so when i came in vermont it was the first it was the whitest state america figured out and i think it's like the second or something so you know even though vermont you know you know it's a it's a good state of being because i came in because i'm just going to back up for a minute i came here because um first i was brought up here i was a kid and then i came up here because you know the motto is unity and freedom the underground railroad went through here they had a documentary about a lady who lives in shallot and uh she had this um shop called africa africa authentica and i'm like damn there's a black girl lady you know so and i learned about brolin's and i knew you know if i hate to get out of town fast brolin's and we need to go to burrows and you don't want to get out you better get the air for the train or whatever to get if i had to get out fast and so um because of those things you know you know more liberal and i learned about people i did my due diligence and so that's why i came here and um you know i'm gonna say i was quick sorry like so um so when i told my mother that i was coming because she used to bring me up here and i was i was coming to live in vermont she said bruce you're gonna make a difference you're gonna make a difference and i didn't know what she meant by but i was raised through the civil rights movement in chicago illinois you know jessie jackson's wife jackie's come out of my house and mirror her watching all that but anyway so one year i called my mother i said mom mom i made a difference i made it she said what you do what you do i said vermont is the second way to stay now well anyway so this bureau was like um you know it was gonna be all flowers and then all these issues about black lives matters and different things came up and i actually couldn't you put a black lives matter up there on that wall and she said um she said bruce first she says you know she sent me a wish text to her she's like done because like she done these are i like she's almost done she ain't going to change her but she didn't mean that she meant done that um that's a great idea and then she said boy oh how am i gonna put black lives matter over flowers i'm like that's better it's peaceful it's harmonious it's calm cooling you know it's not we're not saying black lives matter like you know some like the black panther party where that was around that was originated from in chicago i'm from you know what i'm saying and we're not we wasn't they was they was they was like that either actually but um so i'm just trying to say we we wasn't like we're not trying to put up to this to be mean to nobody because we love everybody you know i mean i wouldn't be in vermont i wouldn't came here to white state america if i felt you know i was against people and i was raised in south side chicago all day you know so i know about the block the neighborhoods that you know i've been a part of it i've been troubling myself you know i'm saying and so i know but i always i always talk to be um the community minded because all those people my mouse raised that way and i always talked was talked to be um do community service i always talked to also make a man to the community or individual you offended you know i mean and i always was taught that keep your community and neighborhoods beautiful work with everybody and it has no color just what you do you know that's how you you're supposed to do you know so i put this uh mirror up there you know i didn't put it up there i i paid it for credit i me and my one among the directors painted it all blue the the pride so i did something you know but um but so it came out so nice and you know it was if i'm not to be like in the perfect spots place you know you come down one way so you're on a nice building and the thing about it was that the thing about it is that i believe everything works in divine order you know i'm saying so i i don't think that this this space and in the timing everything was came to be because of my little tiny brain i think it came to be because there was this perfect it's worked in the order that is supposed to not believe in that that's what i believe everything works in divine order not before and so there it is and so um people came back we got a lot of hits on it cctv got it up we got a vpr i put it up we got like over 300 likes on it and i was looking at other things on vpr that that seemed to be more important to me you know i'm kind of you know in theory you know i'm saying and they have no any of the likes we have so these are brahmanas you know i mean these are people who are looking at that mural and they get the little story about our program art so wonderful on it and um they are really like wow that's nice that's nice they're not like nothing militant or mean about it you know saying something you know like yeah black last night you know they just like they get it it's just harmonious is a it's a we want you to feel it in your heart and your heart and your spirit this mural that's what we want people to do we don't want to you know you know be emotional about it take take opportunities to do something you know people who you know people because let's learn about people let me tell you a quick story so like i don't believe that um i sit on a lot of i sit on a lot of racial probably all of racial justice programs in the state you know you know all of you know i was on the governor and ej ag racial justice uh for i say police fair partial policing uncommon alliance we have changed the data collection with the chiefs surrounding we did i'm a commissioner and when nuski at the city for the city of whisk i'm a commissioner right now i'm a founding member of the community justice center on the state in 1998 and so i sit on a lot of you know been a part of this active you know it's because i felt like you know the numbers you know i guess it may be because you know where i was raised to i'm sure had a lot to do with it but i think it's also because i have to have to represent the people who look like me in a state that have highly nobody who looks like me and the thing about it i don't think um a lot of people in the state or people white people in the state are like racists or whatever i think because i'm i'm about education you know and i think you know and i always try to find what's good about something that what's bad about it you know or what's seeming to me i think it's because first of all this state and a lot of other things white people don't go to church with black people they don't live next door to them they don't go to school with them they don't shop at the same grocery shopping store maybe you'll see them at the malls a few and so um because of that how they get the information normally they go with some stereotypical mostly in their brain based on what they've learned or saw and with food food by up to um the ages of time with african americans coming from slavery or you know you know and all of that and so and they see on tv the news the magazine some black person did this they see on the news some black people did that you know and see all this some black people in poverty look at that look at that neighborhood scene look it's all pitiful you know black people are looting in rioting black all this stuff and so so if it was me and i've never been around a black person i never met one i've never been in schools or churches or you know been shopping in class or whatever none of those things with them well what i'm supposed to think you know me i must have something or a lot of me that says that that person could be like that you know they could be they could be like that you know i'm saying and so so i i believe that in vermont particularly that this is one of the reasons that's why um that most people not racist it's not educated because soon in with me you know and i i'm tell you i'll build to some hybrid situation i know some gangsters on chicago i still know some you know me i i people here that's so-called gang i know them but i my goals to help them change to do the other thing that's what i do you know me and so i've been in trouble myself you know i'm saying but still my programs have over 50 awards i have i have opened a youth centers for years and my free-for-kids chill-out centers and living rooms and you know loft 89 and um fairhaven and rottling and nothing you know usually across the state for youth to come nice ones tight with talk about that a little bit that's very cool the chill-out centers explain that yeah what are you doing well the chill-out centers well they're not chill they've evolved to um are so wonderful galleries and performing centers now and so we only have two and one is in the brolin's the city place mall and one is in university mall but um the chill-out centers for a year little history on it was created by my youth youth advisory boards from all the different high schools around tenon county in 2003 and their goal was that um they should have a place where they can go and hang out and have activities and you know just be a social social service or whatever just hang out with their friends a safe healthy sick healthy outlets and safe places and so uh are you right about that you know what I mean why not and so one kid said we you know we talked about um where and ways and um and stand yeah so we talked about where and where and something named where places came up like um places that's you know empty you know we can try to rent in whatever and then uh somebody said the malls so we always hang out the malls you know I said that's a great idea so I said let me talk to um the owners of the malls and see that I'm I know they're not a hundred percent like but see them get some spaces in there so add some deduct really the lowest cost they could possibly give us or give us and and help with sponsors too you know and I did and they said university malls yeah I'm like wow and I told those kids and they had a few space and they said and plus we hit we have a you could pick your place it's how about my youth and then it was like y'all excited and uh they picked their place and we got all our sponsors you know I mean to donate pool tables brand new so we saw we didn't we all ourselves was brand spectacular we didn't mess around we didn't our kids deserve the best won't come in a crappy place the best but then we also had our kids paint the place up you know man they kept it nice you know but they you know had all the best things and so it was free for any kid we charged no dollars zero dollars and then we had uh um you know we had the first one was in university mall on 2000 square feet then we had one in the bronze mall that was like that was almost 8000 square feet we had um you know dance studio recording studio full kitchen you name it front room computer rooms you know chill rooms you know and so it was real nice that when we kept down for one it was like 7500 five square feet I remember that you know and then um and so we did the same thing and then and so some people from Rutland basketball team uh my friend um Harry Snotty's be there one of the resource man at the city hall and uh so I knew him and his son came and figured Rutland is playing ball from bronze high school and um he came in the mall and he like you know he introduced himself to me and um he knew how I was you know I'm like yeah and so I said he said man we really need one of these in Rutland he really needs and so many people so many people in Rutland have already asked me to come up there and do some stuff this was in 2010 and um so I you know ultimately I said okay if you guys be on my youth board I'll do it and then they were I got a space in um diamond money malls like 3000 square feet I had them painted on love they designed how they want to prove to and the pool company gave us like the the biggest and best two pool you nine footers that's the best you can get and then they had to build them right on the spot brand new brand new wow two of them and they and they came in they said we want that we want that and that's okay and they built on and everything they picked out and we kept that place if just last year when I closed that place down because the mall closed 2010 kids from Rutland high school that's how we got there and then somebody from cast in college I ain't gonna say these names board members from cast and then came to the Rutland mall and they said wow we really love this we got a grant from cast in college can you help us and we have a space can you help us um you know or you know put it all together you know and I said to them first first I need a youth advisory board because I don't do nothing without talking to people who are work for they got to tell me I'm not gonna I probably have a good idea I probably can give the right answer but if they don't get if I don't hear from my youth advisory board I ain't feeling it I'm like I'm not going there so I created a youth advisory board from Rutland high schools and um and from um Mill Rivers and um Fairhaven high school and um because they wanted to do this in Fairhaven and so I got put my little youth board together you know high school they knew they we traveled to Rutland so I can see how this one was laid out you know these kids was like so excited and it was right around um Fairhaven that park around it's beautiful you know right around the prize right on the thing and so they had a little first their first original space was on the city it gave them and it was something like this old it was like we were a city hall there as in the police and there ain't no I was in there but on the last floor up there they had the open space it was so unique because it was so cool because it was old um built building and then it was old it was used for you know kids back in the 50s or whatever and so it had a basketball court upstairs which was really on upstairs but it was you know and so they called it the loft and so it was getting the names um so in this new building we got to it was 89 Main Street so the kids named it loft 89 so that's how we got to loft 89 and it's at the bottom was there's a program or chillout center or whatever and um so they same type of model same thing and we kept that forever you know and um and so that's how we got the centers and they just evolved because my youth board president charlaine fu said we need to change some up a little bit you know i mean let's let's change knock out the uh because he helped me to create the university model center the um because there was living room called the living rooms but um he helped me create those and um so she wanted to evolve them because if she now she's a sophomore in middlebury so she wanted to evolve from five so it was fine and um so we changed into art galleries you know arts are one of art galleries where we help people with art you know um because you know starving artists she's an artist her so our charlaine and a lot of our team is artists um and um in the graffiti art and all that stuff so and we did art shows every year at the marriott we do them every year you know this is gonna come up for our ninth year and um so i thought it was a great idea and then we still and in one of the browns of mine was like about 1000 square feet so just this art gallery and in that gallery now that we're back open you know we're gonna get back to rolling because it's shut down on us and you know like everybody i think it's a bad time but it seemed like it was a bad time um and so so she um so we got that one open and um and so all we're gonna do is showcase art but the one in that that space that space is um um your artists can showcase their art in that space that our our director ali um picks out and they they pay absolutely nothing they get a hundred percent of the proceeds how good is that 100 percent of the proceeds that it's full art right now ali's got it online so if you want to buy art go art so wonderful and check out some of the art in brown smoke so our space in the university we had it for like five months but it was also um it was also cut out you know um because of the virus you know we had so we just started to get art in there in our mural i'll talk about that a minute um so so now art going in there i think ali's gonna have it all done by sunday all ours being out there and it's like it's like five thousand square feet so we're gonna have a performing center in there oh it's gonna be so awesome through stage and everything and in the back of which is none of like about almost thousand we'll have a recording studio and where kids can come and do arts and craft for free even a recording studio now only thing we're gonna charge for the um for people to sell when they sell their art that that place again is that it's 20 percent you we did our due diligence it's a it's so i can't believe it art galleries i don't know i don't know it's my first time over so i maybe i'll learn why didn't you do it but charge 40 it's our 50 to 60 percent of the person's artist payment off their payment depending on their art in there 50 to 60 percent oh good lord that's wonderful they raise they price up about a thousand bucks or you know you know i don't know if they i don't tell me that's why they raise up because their fees so it don't seem like they ain't really no fee you know but for us 20 percent we want to make it right for you know people you know me and um we have all different type of artists that's part of them have like fancy you know really artists who've been doing things right now it's already now you know i mean university ball artists who've been doing things for years and got galleries around the world you know me and there and there may have some neighboring you know some cool like new artists you know so it's collective of all and then we're gonna have um artists from um part of our part of our united college club they're also a wonderful organization that we're real close with her is university vermont art club so they're they're they're helping this one and it's another one they're doing in the university mall we're gonna talk to you one about pros you're gonna do but um and so so that's what we do at our gallery it's gonna be for me so we've got a comedy show cover a free comedy show right with our um max palmer oh look up max palmer he's so funny he works with us we don't we do comedy shows where his money is on our team in the university mall it's gonna be july 18th at like these things it's five p.m right in the center court and we're gonna have like you know all the pva social distancing you know but it's gonna be just a event where people can actually feel good about um you know get their mind off of something i mean just have a great time you know and just laugh and talk and all this have a moment you know you know it's a moment so i'm looking forward to that it's july 18th i'm thinking five p.m if it ain't five p.m i'll make it five p.m now as i said five p.m as in center court um where you know we're right across from our gallery um hold on yeah so it's gonna be so i'm i'm looking forward to that i want to laugh too max is so funny that's about i'm so so like i said we do a lot of things and it keeps my head is going everywhere so i'm not i'm not um going right here it's a lot of energy yeah it's a lot of energy yeah hopefully some support yeah so folks want to know more they go to they can look up service rendered incorporated or they can just look up uh at art so wonderful at arts a r t s so wonderful at art so wonderful and they'll see a lot of things so they see a lot of our murals curve murals they'll see um you know see this mirror here see our artists you'll see my art director ali and um you know and all our team you know in there and they can contact any of them you know and um we're very proud to work with uvm art club um patrick man and he's the president and he writes right with us you know he's like he's on everything i say patrick man as a vat you if you want to work you want if you want your club to do some art these are murals you better get on board us and then you're like okay okay you're so excited and then he didn't know i mean you know people most people don't know when i say something like that i really mean it i mean and you know and then and all come start we start right like the next day it's not like you know you're gonna start in three weeks you know tomorrow buddy you know i mean and so that basically he kind of started like that you know i mean with this mirror i mean the next thing i got he's doing the university mall a mirror now he got it in one of pro street to do he's got stuff and two other locations in them are so so he's like oh my god you said that and he was on the press he's on the news he got so i talked about um um uvm art club and so how wonderful is that how what's the measurement on that right there really i just stood the measurement and what we do and probably a lot of people do is too great to measure i cannot put a measurement on that now look what he got for his resume this uh his portfolio his um press kit just these things he's pressed up this now this he's got this right now just work with us so and that's everybody get that from us everybody we make sure of it it's what we got over 50 awards yeah well it's funny um one mayor at see how mayor told me i was a hub ever out Bruce you're the hub i'm like i'm looking at you to make you the mayor you tell me i'm the hub you know i'm like i don't know but all i do is try to make things work and what i do is like because we need help you know people want to want to help us go to service rendered incorporated art so wonderful we gotta go for we gotta we have a art so wonderful go fund me page right now because we need recording equipment before we need to provide free equipment for free and we'll pay our engineers we'll pay our engineers but free but anyway so the one of mayor told me that i was a hub you know i was connected i mean like like you just said no and what i was saying was that i'm like that because we need help i just the things the mall spaces this thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars that things that we do i do know that that most people don't they can't do it because they don't they don't they could do it but they don't think how we how like we do it because we have community partners and how our community partners we don't say thank you see you later we say how can we help you too with our other partners and i do that i'm i do that you know i bring people to rotarian medians i bring people to connect with other people who do kind of like they need their service and and they did with the deals they make it's way way bigger than what they you know give to us but but because what they do for us i can't put a measure in so i i don't so it's like it's a balance so we help others that's why we continue to have our sponsors since the day we started they still support us i don't have to put in a 100 page proposal i don't you know i don't have to do it i say this is what we're doing they understand what we do and um may i send a check i can text them or email them or whatever you know this is what we're going to do and they say and they get it you know and i had to have the nerves to ask them why one year why one of our sponsors you know why they do that and um and he told me you know his is multi-million and all these this that going for something he ain't got to do this stuff for me every time i ask him when i put together something like a 10 page proposal and he's i just text him or email him and he said good he said well bruce i i go people everybody asks me for money and that um and i um when they send me i get the newsletter i get their measurement reports and they tell me that you know you know well if we had in theory if we had thank you for the cereal that you provided for these kids i'm just this isn't hypothetical you know and it and it was great in the milk but if they had bananas in them we can get we can get more kids to come and so can you give us more money you know and so he says that's a part of getting you say money you say what i do i like to you know see it myself you know i mean and i could i should believe them about the emergency but it's i can't wrap myself around it too much he said but when i go to your places and you say it's going to be 300 kids there it's 300 kids there he said i can see that i can see your mission i can see the kids i can see that they're in a safe place where there's no drugs and i call tobacco i can see them interacting i see them have fun i see chaperones or security there whatever it is i see that you don't you don't have to um i get it so i don't have to go to you i if you i don't have to go and i see you on the news i see on your cable shows i see you know i don't i don't have to go there i don't have to worry about if my money being spent for real i see it and more than one of those type of persons told me that and that's why we have our sponsors for i can say since 1999 they're still there they ain't going nowhere that's how we're able to do the things we do and then we help them too based on what they do with our other sponsors just like them you know hey you need some recycling you're in for all your zim means a square feeder of property yeah oh let me get you introduce you to this person they meet boom donnie now how big is that how big is that he these guys here these guys multi multi guys millionaire guys and i mean and i'm able to help them a little guy like me which i think i'm no i don't think nobody's better than nobody make a deal because it makes me feel good because now they help us we help is a sponsorship is a partnership and i and we the partner we have to do our part too i don't like thank you hit your thank you letter you know i'll say hey i'll send them a text thanks man that was good no we i'll send you i don't you know how many people came and blah blah blah you know i might come through yeah definitely come to you know you know something like that sponsorship is a partner that's right and i i believe about it all the time that's why that's why and that's why let me tell you so this art so wonderful logo was created by our person who created our program united college because i was saying all the schools we work but the other college is working all the different colleges and students and um mary and gormaski well 1999 she created that um united college and she said bruce she was going to champlain college she said bruce um champlain college students st michael students and uvm students team that don't get along they said especially st michael's and um uvm he said he's like champlain students that we like the medias between the vote and i don't know why i see and she said we should put together a college program that um worked with that that we can work together and um and she was telling me that if they all work together they can build it based on united based on champlain college uvm and st michael's they have a credible resource they they they're the bigots in the state for schools maybe calisthenics or whatever but um as i said go right ahead i said give her the name miss him goes into jexson she wrote it down she called united college club and and it goes on today you know and mary gormaski when i call her to talk about her the measurement they outcome she's still all through college she helped us with united college club because you would they do events and all kind of cool things and on caps off campus and you know we do bernie jerry every year like the vermona contest and the greeks would come in you know i mean eat up ice cream for some wind every year we had to we had the uh we had the vermona contest title because the greeks we had the party in the land would come in and do that vent that you um been in jerry's yet but anyways so mariam she still helped when she graduated she listened quite a lot now beautiful kids and family she still do what's the way she do you know graduate from champlain and the graphic and then she created our someone for logo kind of looked like that with our logo and we still she's she helped us with our um studio i mean our um events that our shows that uh maria every year she's still a part of what we do so yeah so um so anyways so the mirror we're doing in um and um people should come by and see it come it's a mirror we're doing a university mall right now it's going on actually right now and it's 80 foot long it's about communities about everything vermona have to offer and if you're in that mall and you look and you're right by baldy and baff and victoria seeking on the side coming you see a big one said vermont that's ours too now on um soon i think next week or so we're going to start our new mirror we have we have uh pro street beverage on the university said those mirrors are ours two of those and one around the back and on the parking side we're going to change that del rey's cars chasing the bus whatever and it's going to be um it's like a hundred feet long it's going to be a dedication to our frontline workers our artist jamie bianardis is um she she showed me the design so nice you have like you know the nerves the fire you know the you know all the frontline workers essential workers on that wall with some type of dedication to them it's going to be so nice and i'm so happy to be a part i'm going to help out with that probably just prime wall but we have uvm art club is going to be there uh ali our our director all our our team is will be there to help out on that when we will get any community person want to put a pressure and we're going to do it so thanks so much yeah thanks thank you guys for like covering me up for since around 2001 or 2003 you've been doing shows at cctv god what else you guys we wouldn't know what to do um cctv 17 we would know what to do you know i just couldn't get the word out you know and we couldn't in this last you know we've been guessing to tell their stories to we don't just say um thank you come on to other people to hear what you do too you know and so we weren't able to do that without um cctv 17 we just wasn't able to do it so thank you very much


Hi everyone, Joe for jaspyscasebreaks.com, that's me and that is 2018-2019 Panini Flawless Basketball. One box, one briefcase, random hit break number 12 from jaspyscasebreaks.com. Very easy. We sell 10 spots. We open up the case. I show you the hits. I pause the video. I type in the hits right here, roll the dice, randomize your names, randomize the hits and match you up with the hit. That's it. That's it. It could be something, could be the best something, could be the worst something, but it's something. Big thanks to all those people right there though for getting into it. Thanks to the people who bought their spots straight up and congrats to the people who won their spots in those sell-o-pack breaks. Remember I marked that RH2? Last time we did this, so we know it's from the same briefcase or the same master case that is. Now remember Hoops only has two encased cards right there. It'll have the slider box and the two. Good luck. And I will type in the hits in the order that they are pulled as well. I'm not sure if it really matters randomizing-wise, but just for consistency's sake. That looks like it's a little tilted. Should be this way and this way? I don't know. I can never get the, what do they call this in the move, the horizon correct here? Anyway. Good luck everybody.  We got Cerunas, Marci Leones, 19 out of 20, legendary scripts, old warrior, four out of 10, Tom Chambers. Some old school guys here, Utah Jazz. We got another old school guy, a train whistle for somebody out of five, enshrined signature artist Gilmore. Three color patch and autograph. We've got Lamarcus Aldridge, five out of 25. Nice. I don't think you see a lot of Lamarcus Aldridge autos, 24 out of 25, Bill Walton. Nice Bill Walton. We got Clyde the Glide Drexler, nice, 15 out of 15, distinguished autograph. Four out of 10. Box in the box, De'Aren Fox. Three color patch and autograph. Nice. Definitely a lot of old school guys in this slider box here, coupled with De'Aren Fox. All right. Let's slide this over this way and we're gonna do the non-auto first, unless they're both autos. All right, on the left side, wow, a triple diamond, Devin Booker, three out of five triple diamond. Wow. Is that kind of, there's kind of like a dark green shade in the little color spots there. So someone guessed a triple diamond, someone guessed Kobe triple diamond, but there's a Devin Booker triple diamond who likes to put up as many shots as possible like Kobe. All right. On this side is your autograph and it's the brow, Anthony Davis, nice, 11 out of 15, Pelican's Edition right there. Naturally mined, not lab grown is what they say. Now, I'm gonna pause the video. When we come back, we're gonna have all the hits typed in and then we're gonna see who gets what. Stick around. I'll be right back. And welcome back, folks. I got all the hits all typed in. There's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, perfect. And on this list, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, and ten. Thank you again, everybody, for getting in no matter how you got in, I appreciate it. Let's roll it. Let's randomize it. Five and four, nine times for each list. Nine times, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, and nine. After nine times, five and a four, nine times, James Beedle, down to Quinton Carter, five and a four, nine times for the hits. Good luck. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, and ninth and final time. After nine times, Marsilionis is on top, Clyde the Glide Drexler on the bottom. Here's how it all shakes out for everybody. All right, there we have it. James, you got the Marsilionis autographed to 20 and the Bill Walton to 25. That's from the spots you won in the Celopac break, not too shabby. Tony, De'Aaron Fox, patched out to four out of 10. Ryan with the Lamarcus altered to 25. Zach with the Tom Chamber, out to 10. Steve Locke, you got the Enos Cantor three-color patched to 20. You won that spot in Celo 98, not too shabby. Jeff with the Anthony Davis encased out to 15. Ryan with the spot you won the artist Gilmore, two out of five. All aboard the Big Hit Express. And he's shining bright like a diamond. With the Devin Booker triple diamond, with the spot that he bought straight up. Nice. Three out of five. All aboard the Big Hit Express. And Quinn Carter last but not least, Clyde the Glide Drexler, 15 out of 15 autographed from a spot you won in the Celopac break. There you go, boys and girls. Flawless is always a treat. Lean a little more old school in the slider box here. That's all good. But good to see their nice penmanship. Fox was nice too. The Anthony Davis autograph and the triple auto, pretty sweet for the encased cards. Right there. There you go. I don't know if we have any more Flawless basketball, but we're always on the hunt for more. So keep an eye out on jaspyscasebreaks.com, everybody. I'm Joe. I'll see you next time for the next break. Bye-bye.


Mae hwn yn fwrdd yn gwbod, mae'n eu gweithio'n credu oherwydd o'r gyfrigeid yma ac mae gweithio yn dal yn ymgyrch chi'n gwirio. Yn ni'n gweithio, ond fyddech chi'n gweithio? Felly dyna popeth o'r gweithio'n gweithio, fel y rhan yn llwyster, mae'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio ac mae'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio fach o'r gweithio. I gaelwyd ar gaelwyd, mae'n gweithio bod yn gwahanol a gwahanol a'r ystradd yn bachon alw. A wnaeth amaf o'r ffynol yn ymdyn nhw, wilt yn ymdyn nhw, ond yw rôl i'r ffaen pethai. %w4 o'r anodd ffodol mewn gwahog ac rhaid o ffobol. Rwy'n rhoi'r anodd mewn gwahog o'r anodd ffobol, ond mae'n nesaf eich mwy o'r anodd i'r gweithio. Oherwydd rydyn ni'n mynd yn fawr yn ymgyrchu, I'll ask you to repeat that, but please do so I'll also subscribe if you don't already But the question is when this is all on and the lockdown has lifted Where's the first golf course to be up for? Get that one down in the comments Let's get this kicked off I start and discovered at a place called PGA Catelugna It's a unreal Golf course Felly mae'r drwng i'r cyffredin yma yn ymdweud o'r prydd. Ac oeddwn i'r ysgol iawn ffyrdd o'r cyffredin am ymddangos yma i'r llanol. Mae'r ffordd fydd yma i'r ysgol iawn a'r llanol. Mae'r bwysig dros o'r Llywodraeth. Mae'r cyffredin yn ymdweud o'r llanol. Felly mae'r llanol yn weithio ar y ffordd. Mae'r llanol yn roi fynd i'r llanol. Mae unrhyw gwynt o'r cyffredin o'r cyffredin o'r cyffredin poston. A gweithio gweithio'r gweithio a gweithio mi rai'n gweithio'r gwneud y gweithio yn gweithio'r regulatio arall, ac i gwybod i wnaeth o'r gweithio. Rwy'n meddwl ond mae'n meddwl, mae'n meddwl i'n meddwl i'r gwmpraeg, a phobl i dŵr. Felly fel y gweithio'n meddwl yw'r gweithio'r teisio, mae'n meddwl i ddigwydio arall y dda i ddim o'r llelectr. Rwy'n meddwl, mae'n meddwl i'r clwb oedl. Ac mae'n bod yn wir i'r iawn, ac mae'n bod yn ei ddefnyddio. Mae'n gwaith cyhoedd gamp yn y straff. Mae'n grwp dim yn ddigwyleu'n gweithio ac mae oedd yn gweithio yn ddod. Mae'n gwybod. Mae hyn y gallai yn ddigwyleu. Mae'n rhai gwybod yn rhoi ar y dda chi. Mae'n gweithio yn dewis iawn. Go! Efallai bydda'n gweithio – mae'n haith yn y game, ac efallai fel eich bod yn cael oed yn ddigwyleu'r gweithio. Rhaid, rhaid, rhaid i'w ddweud eich bod yn ddweud am gweithio, felly mae'n dweud am y sawl, rhaid i'r stymau ar y cwmbr o ddweud o'r pwynt, i'n dweud o'r dweud o â ddweud mae'n ddweud o'r bwnt, ac yn ddechrau, rhaid i'n ddechrau gweld, rhaid i'n ddweud am y cyflwynio, i'w ddweud eich ddweud o'r bwnt. Rhaid. Rhaid. Rhaid i'w ddweud yn y cwmbr o ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud, rwy'n fwy o'r llwy, ac rwy'n ddau'n gwneud, ac ry'n gobeithio. Cyngorol. Rwy'n cael gweithio. Mae'r gweithio yn y drafod, ac rwy'n cael gweithio, rwy'n cael gweithio. Rwy'n cael gweithio eich ddau, ac rwy'n gweithio. Ond yn dweud, mae'r ddau'n gweithio, ac rwy'n gweithio eich dod o'r bwysig o'r ddau. Rwy'n gweithio i'r ddau, a'r ddau'u bwysig o drwng ond yn y twm. Rwy'n cweithio. Llywodraeth, ac yn carly belongingol ar y llwydd. Wrth y gallu'n gwellio. A ddyn nhw'n amser drwandau drwg. Rwy'n amser y gallu ymdodd, clerwchais o amdwyun i'r ffordd. Dwi'n sgwrdd a'r trafnol, mae'n dod o'r ffordd. Ryn ni. Byddwn ni'n ffrindio parffau ac mae'r contwyr y gallu golffol yn mine. Diolch yn golffol hefyd. Ac rydyn ni'n ffrindio'r t-shot,ddi. Next up, staying in Spain, but over on the sunny Costa del Sol. Although it wasn't that sunny to be fair, but I played with Peter Fincher and Matt Fryer. We had a few days there, a number of different courses. And this is at La Quinta. It wasn't a man vs golf old challenge, but you'll see me, it kicks off with being a bit of trouble and then play what is a gorgeous little par 3. It's almost a gimme. That friendship ending when you gave me mine. It's a majestic pour. Just about got there, didn't it? There was a worrying moment there for a while. It was going a little bit far. Great little par 3. That was just a quick note on the greens. There had been spots on really good roll on all of them, but eight holes in now and pretty much everyone has been decent golf old to be fair. Just thought on it so far, Pete. Excellent. I would give it eight and a quarter out of ten. The other thing that was missing a little bit was just permanent sunshine. But that's not in anyone's control. Greenkeepers can't do that. No, it's been good, hasn't it? Very good. Matt? I want a sandwich. Time for a break. Great words there from Matt. Strong words there. Really enjoyable golf course. Really enjoyable. What a lovely par 3. There's some great holes on there, but it did absolutely a lash down later on in the round so we didn't quite see it in all its glory.  There's so many nice holes I could pick from from there. It's a stunning golf course. It's difficult. There's a lot of water. Yeah, there's a lot of hazards to say the least. And this is hole number 14, stroke index six. And as you can see, it's not too easy. OK, final old man versus golf old challenge, I promise you, but I can't ignore this one. It's one of 13th to 14th, very much a signature role at Catalonia. It's stroke six. It's just absolutely gorgeous. You've got to get a drive in play and then hopefully something fairly short into that. Again, another island green as I call them. When you got the ball flight, leaked it out right. I don't know what's quite over there, but I think it's over there. I think we've just been up that fairway so it shouldn't be too bad and hopefully I've got a shot into that green. Right, 157. Well, you don't want to be long or short really. So this is going to have to be clubbed right. I'm going to go with 7.9. It's a decent 7.9 for me that. Got lucky Bay that was definitely down the right and there's plenty of room down here, but a bit of a hanging lie. Come on, decent shot. Oh, it's not a decent shot at all. That's really heavy in the drink. I'm going to take the shot from here again. Right, really, not going to finish on that. I'm going to have another pop from here because I love this hole so I'm going to finish. Come on and hit the thing. That's a much better strike. Got through that one better. Go, has he got the legs? Ah, yeah. Why didn't I do that first time around, eh? But never mind, I'm on dry ground. So what's that? Pop for a five in it? Right, on dry ground, I mean it's a tough old, although simple as that, but yeah, four, you never know. I'm going to leave the flag in again just to give you a better idea of before someone wants to give me a two shot penalty. Right. Let's finish this one on a high. Go on. I was always just that little bit low, it was a good pace to be fair. Happy with the bottom maker six and I was well and truly beaten by PGA Catalonia. So that's it, another three holes with Man vs Golf to take us away in our minds at least out to where we will get to very, very soon. So stay safe, keep healthy, get involved in that comments, don't forget the question from the beginning is where you're going to play your golf and who with. And for now I will call it a date and I'll see you probably tomorrow because we've got a launch monitor arriving fingers crossed tomorrow and there'll be some club testing on the way. So anyway, take care, see you soon.