I'm excited to introduce the next speaker. He's a good friend of mine. We actually met last year at same time, same event, but in Orlando. As I mentioned, he's also a fellow tribesman. So we got that little bond going. But he's awesome. We really connected. We had a great time. Loved his speech last year. Looking forward to hear him talk again. This is his sixth time speaking at the 21 convention. So he is the executive instructor at the Tao of DJ Fuji. You can learn more about him at TaoofDJFuji.com. He's been featured on MTV. He's been coaching for five years. So please help me welcome Jared Syke Lawrence. Thank you, man. All right. So I know I'm the last speaker here. So I want to get everybody wide awake before I start this. So I'm going to do a little bit of a balance test with you guys, okay? I want everybody to stand up real quick. And can everybody just stand on one leg for me? Let's see how long you can hold that. Put one hand up on your waist. All right. Now stand on one leg. Put the other hand this way. All right. Now, sing on my little teapot. All right. You guys sit down here. That's why we guys up. Okay. Now, like many of the guys here, my entire life, I basically struggled with dating. I struggled with building social circles. I struggled with literally any area of social interaction all the way up until through college around. I was never before this considered a lady's man by any means. I had a girlfriend for about a year and a half and we never had sex at not once. And she lost virginity to the very next guy she dated after about a month of dating him. I was never considered someone who's going to become prom king. In fact, if I recall correctly, my prom date ended up sleeping with another guy in a bathroom. So I had to deal with that that night. I was never Mr. Popular. Throughout all of middle school, throughout all of high school, I had two close friends. And one time, I remember one time they brought me to one of the house parties that some other girl was throwing. And I overheard her telling him, why did you bring Jared? We don't want him here. So that was my life coming up through all of this. I'll tell you something I was though. I was driven. I was committed to getting this area handled as soon as I knew there was a way. And looking back, I can honestly say there is a very strong reason why I was so committed, why I was so driven. I've never admitted this before to anybody. I'm going to admit it here now in this talk. The route I was going, I can honestly say I was close to committing suicide. The depression was getting so real, that hopelessness, that helplessness feeling that maybe some of you guys have felt at some points. But that was growing inside me more and more and more. And I knew I had to turn that around. I remember this pain like it was yesterday, because I think back, I remember those times where I would see psychologists after psychologists, I remember I went to see a psychiatrist at one point, I started taking antidepressants. I really had no answer. I didn't know about this community yet. It was just, this was my life.  And I had no way out of it. Again, that horrible watch for that hopelessness. So what I want to say when people ask, what got you through all those tough times, what got you through those pain periods when you're learning this? The answer honestly was, for me, it was get good or literally die trying. Now, what I want to ask you guys is, why are you here? Why are you trying to learn this? Because I knew my answer. My answer was, I just want to get women to notice me. I just wanted to become a guy that can achieve what before seemed an illusion, a fantasy. As I learned this, as I got better at this, what I realized is I was trying to achieve what before I considered the unattainable. As I get better, as it grew, what was unattainable changed my mind. At first, again, it was just getting attention. Then it was getting women to have some kind of relation with me. Then it became getting the kind of girls I want. It became having choice with the type of women that before, again, seemed only a fantasy. The idea of that quality girl. I want you guys to think about this for a second. Think about why did you get in this game? Why did you got into this community? I'm guessing it had something to do with the fact that you want to exchange your life to get the quality of women you always thought was impossible before. It wasn't to keep getting what you've always had. It wasn't to just get more of the same type of results. And maybe I'm wrong, but if you're anything like me, it was to always push yourself, always grow. Now, to do that, I realized when I went and said again and again, when I talked to women, I would notice a kind of woman I want, the one full of quality would very often be in different towards me. I started seeing patterns again and again where the real quality type women would not even acknowledge me. They wouldn't notice me at first. And then I got kind of lazy. I got kind of lazy, and I would only try to get with the girls that I thought I could get with. But then I realized that's not why I was here. That was stopping. That was limiting myself. It was limiting my potential. It was limiting my growth. So what I started realizing is I need to learn how to make a difference into attraction. And that's what my speech is going to be on with you guys tonight is how to do that. Now, with everything in game, there's two types of things you're dealing with. There is prevention tactics and intervention tactics. Now, nothing's going to substitute for prevention tactics. How do you prevent indifference from happening in the first place? How do you stop a girl from looking at you as, oh, just another loser guy. I don't even need to acknowledge this guy. Well, yes, one, strong body language, being dominant right off the bat, having a strong approach, having a strong transitioner and follow through. Nothing is going to repair that. That's got to be your core go to. But even the best of us are going to run into girls who are just indifferent off the bat. You can't help it. So when most of the community is going to be teaching you and what you're going to be seeing out there is prevention techniques. How to be awesome right off the bat, how to get those girls instantly attracted to you. That's not what this talk is about. This talk is going to be, though, on the intervention tactics. What to do when, you know what, it just wasn't good enough. This was just a girl who was outside of the range I'm normally used to getting. What we're going to do is I'm going to show you step by step all the things that I had to come through and come to realize to get those type of girls. It literally became an obsession for me. It literally became something that I just studied more and more. I would go out of my way to find these women who are just indifferent towards me. I called it the player's dilemma where I would notice I had a 75% chance with this girl who I thought was okay and I had about a 15% chance with this girl who I thought was amazing. That's what I want. And every time I just took the 15% chance I kept rolling the dice.  So it all started four years ago. It all started four years ago with this post. And I just want to say the date of it was May 26, 2008. This was a post I put up on my local, it's the creepiest name in the world, the local lair forum. And basically what I'm outlining here is basically what I just told you, that I go off, I've done a lot of sets at this point. It's about two years into my journey. And I've been noticing again and again there are girls that no matter how style I go in, they're just indifferent. They just give me nothing to work with. These are some things I was trying. It just wasn't working. Please guys help me and I finish it off with, but how do you battle indifference? How do you do it? Because I didn't know at the time. And two years in I was pretty good. I was actually, I was starting to coach around that point. But this was still something that constantly bothered me because I knew what game to me was really about. It was about getting the kind of quality, getting the kind of girls I wasn't able to get before. It wasn't just getting the same stuff over and over and over again. So what was born through my obsession, through my constant trial and error, while focusing on this is my 10 commandments of how to handle women who are indifferent. It's literally a complete breakdown of every pattern I've seen, whether it was what I did, what I've seen my wings do. And I just constantly kept realizing everything falls into one of these 10 things, to how to turn that around. And I've talked loosely with it with some of my students. Some of them will be here and I gave them vague ideas of it that was coming to me as I was developing this more and more. Finally I perfected it. Finally I have made it concrete of this is what works. This I have field tested it. I've seen it. And for the first time anywhere I'm going to be sharing with you guys. Sound good?  Come on. Sound good? All right. That's what I want to hear more of. All right. Commandment number one, thou shall not notice indifference. All right. We've all heard the expression, right? Do not be emotionally reactive. It's the first problem that's going to happen as soon as you see indifference. You feel this need to react to it, right? Instead what you have to realize is this is a frame she's projecting on. This I'm indifferent towards you. What we need to do is battle that with our own. For myself, I go in with a very friendly playful type of frame. I act this way. I expect the world around me to act the same way as well. So what I do is when I see her projecting hers, when I see her being indifferent and not falling into this what I'm setting up, what I do is I just act completely blind.  I don't see it. Now what happens, what you're going to notice is maybe you heard this old adage, one person will always react more than the other person, right? A lot of people heard this. This is why it is. As people we're social chameleons. We see someone act a certain way around us and we vibe it back. Usually the person who reacts, that person takes on their form of vibe is the weaker one or has the weaker frame. So you'll notice this in all your social situations. For example, when your mom comes, let's talk to you, you get really nice and sweet, hi mom, how you doing, right? When your friend comes is like, dude, how you been? You're like, oh bro, I'm doing great, right? You react back to it. That vibe clicks. We have that natural need. If you want to learn more about that, I suggest reading Daniel Goodman's book called Social Intelligence. But we always have that reaction. The problem here is when we see her indifference, our chameleon minds react to it.  We play back too. We vibe it back with her. The goal is if you don't see it and you keep rejecting your friendly playful vibe, she's going to change according to you. She's going to be forced to start acting more friendly, more sweetie, right? So the two key things I've seen guys fall into, though, or mess this up with the kind of emotional reactions they have is one, the guys will get angry. And very first, they're just like, oh, you're going to stop me? Well, screw off that. They're going to get mad about it. They're going to think, I'm going to tease her really hard or do something to knock her down before she can do it to me. The girl's not going to care, you're blown out of the set. The other thing is the exact opposite. They get report seeking.  She's indifferent. I got to do more. I got to do something to make her like me. And then they realize that's just pushing it. That's chasing behavior. It's not stop chasing behavior, which again will just instantly make you blow out. What you want to do is not be phased. When it happens, when you see it, ignore it. Almost act as if she's being friendly no matter what she doesn't say.  Commandment number two, thou shalt build comfort, not attraction. This is the single biggest mistake I see guys who have a difference go through. They go through the girl. They've got all their lines or sound bites. They've got all their routines or whatnot. And what they do is they try to act more gamey. They try to act more cocky funny or whatever they're armed with. Here's the issue. Here's why this doesn't work. The girl is not even comfortable around you. The girl does not even want to associate with you at this point. You have no value to her whatsoever, right? So you can start trying to get her to be playful with you because that's just too much commitment right off the bat. You have to get her comfortable just talking to you as a human being as messed up as that sounds. She just has to get to the commitment level of I will be polite to this person.  I need to boost something up.  She doesn't want to deal with that. But you can get her to start boosting up her comfort levels with you. So she goes, you know what? Maybe I'm not feeling attracted to this guy, but I also talk to him. Also, give him the time of day. I'm not going to blatantly just ignore him and want nothing to do with him. Now, that's not to say you never try to run attraction. I want to make this a very clear point also. You're going to get in that friendly vibe and then you're going to get out of the friendly vibe. All right? If a girl's not instinctive attracted, you have to bat and willing to play with you, you got to realize I got to get her comfortable, talk to me, create that friendly vibe, not do things that she can call out as gamey, things that will show her that I want something from her because she senses that you're done. What you need is to get her in that vibe, so then you can start breaking rapport, doing all those fun little attraction tactics that you have. Teasing with no value, you're going to get blown out again and again. If anyone has been in set long enough or been doing enough approaches, they're going to see that pattern. They're going to see, and it forces you in a dancing monkey type of frame, which is no good either. You become a performer, gimmicker. All right. Commandment number three. Thou shalt talk with nothing. You're going to have to expect this. The girl is not going to give you anything. She isn't different right now. That's going to come as a huge shock to you.  Right? Based on nothing. So how do you go about doing that? Yes, there's the idea of plowing, but that's just a very basic concept. Just keep talking. Basically, that's just me saying, just keep talking. Like, I don't know what to say. Just say whatever. Just keep talking. You know, I like shoes. They're pink and purple. You know, you need a structure. So what I did was I broke out the most effective forms of how to plow properly. The first form is how to follow your own leads. In any conversation, you got to listen for the leads of both the girl and yourself. The lead is the main point of the sentence being said, or the main topic or idea. Ideally, we want the girl to invest and say something and we can hit her leads. In this case, we have to follow our own.  It's uncanny how you look just alike. What is the lead in that sentence? It'd be Ashley. Right? That's the main focus of that sentence. So now I notice she's not giving me anything. So I'm going to follow that lead and I'm going to transition with something based on Ashley. Be like, you probably have her temper too because she was actually born and raised in Ireland. I can see a little bit of Irish in you. All right. Who can tell me the lead here? Irish. So now we can go it again. Ireland, right? To be fair though, I've never been to Ireland myself. I've been to London though and I learned some cool slang while I was there. And so on and so on. Now I can go to London and I can go with slang. Then I can go with other trips of Europe. I can literally talk to a wall forever following this. I can just keep on rattling. This is how you keep rattling and it seems socially acceptable because you're just going off the lasting set. Now that's not the goal. The idea is I don't want to be talking to a wall. I want this girl to be investing back. I want to get her open up. Right? I got to fix this comfort issue. So one of the other ways I'm going to do it is use checking questions and then I'll just answer them myself if really needed. I can literally just ask the question and then answer it. Right? So something like... We're going with the classic line. I want to tell her something but like, oh, so are you the bad girl of the group? Right? Old-ass line. You don't need her to actually respond to that, do you? She's going to be like, yes, I am the bad girl. No, I'm not. You don't actually need a real response.  I can tell you already. It's like looking in your eye. You've got that bad girl look. You just answer your own question. So we're constantly following our own leads. We're throwing questions out there and they don't give it. We answered ourselves. The last thing is you're going to make assumptions about the girl, both as Cole reads again, such as good girl, bad girl. Right? You're this. You're that. You're the friendly one. Oh, you're the ball buster of the group. I can see it already. And we can do assumptions interpreting her reactions or feelings of things. Right? So let's say, for example, I'm talking to a girl and I said, oh, you know, the cool thing, I just got back from Universal Studios and I did that Harry Potter ride. It was so awesome. And she looks at me. It's like, right? It gives me nothing. I'm going to assume a reaction from her. I'm like, I know, I know. You're thinking I'm a dork, whatever. Okay? But I'm going to tell you right now, I can see you have a dorky side to you also. Don't try to hide it. Don't try to be a baller with me. I'm assuming reaction. She gave me nothing, but I can just act as if she did. I see in your face. I see in your eyes. I can tell. I know what you're thinking. Any of these ground into our assumptions about the girl. This is how we can just keep talking over nothing. Thou shall talk with nothing. All right. Commandment number four. Thou shall not call them out for being indifferent. So many guys just have a need to do this. I don't know why, but they've really feel this strong need to be like, you're being indifferent. Why are you acting that way? All you're going to get is a girl being like, because I am. Sorry. But like, she's just going to fall into it. She's going to agree with you. All right. So, actually before that should not call them out for being different. Why do you guys think that is? Why should you not call them out for being indifferent and point out the pink elephant in the room? Correct. Good man. And violates command one. You don't see it, remember? You don't notice she's indifferent. So why would you call it out? All she's going to do is agree with you. We don't see it. We don't acknowledge it. All we're banking on as of right now for the first four commandments is we are going to keep talking in a way that even if she gives us nothing and constantly project that friendly social vibe that she's going to act as a chameleon to and take on. However, with that said, you will address bitchiness or rudeness in two ways. You're going to use humor or corrective frame control. So, for humor, I'll give you an example that my buddy Sin came up with. Back then it was really funny to do with him. Say to a girl like, wow, that was amazing. All right. I was like the bitchiest thing I've ever seen. All right, do it again, but this time like amp it up by 10%. All right. Oh, come on. No, see, that was awful.  I can tell you actually a sweetheart. I will tell you who's really ruthless though. My friend Megan. Oh my God. She's a man eater. All right. So that's the humorous way to address it. Now, if you notice what else what I did was I avoided frame battles by transitioning away from humor, corrective response, by transitioning away from it immediately. I didn't stick with that because again, I don't want an argument to take place. I don't want a frame battle to happen. I want to dress it, move on before she can do anything about it. So you listen to it again. I go, wow, that was amazing. All right. Do this again, but amp it up by 10%. All right. There's a humor. Then I go with, yeah, that was horrible. You're actually really a sweetheart forcing that frame on, saying you're friendly. You're like me.  And then I get off of entirely. You know who's really bad? My friend Megan. She's ruthless. I'm off the whole thing now. Now I'm talking about a totally different topic. Okay. The other one is corrective frame control. This is a fun one. It's my interpretation of it. It comes from an old friend of mine, Adam. He was just here speaking with you guys. So when a girl says something rude, you go, wow, that's rude. Do you really feel like every guy that comes to talk to you is hitting on you?  Surely you're not that conceited. I get it though. I get it. Most guys are way too aggressive when they talk to girls. I honestly don't know why guys can't just be themselves and be normal. And then you'll find girls are actually really friendly. All right. Think about what I just did there, right? I literally called her out on the rudeness. I said, that's rude. Do you really think that way? I know you're not that conceited. So if she agrees she is that way, now she's in a bad frame. Then I go on. Then basically I go on and tell her, I agree with you. I see what you mean. You know, I'm mirroring you. We see eye to eye.  Again, basically implying this is me. Girls will act friendly, which means she will start acting friendly. I'm canceling these bad frames. I'm putting on new ones. That's a big thing. It's kind of a very advanced topic. I understand, but frame control is really a passion of mine. It's showing these are problem frames I'm getting rid of and I'm going to implement new ones. To handle indifference, you're going to have to learn that. It's the only real advanced technique with this. So never come out for being indifferent, but do not accept bitchiness or rudeness. You have certain boundaries of how you expect to be treated and you will handle it that way. But indifference, you don't see it, because we just don't expect it. We don't ever expect it. All right, commandment five. Now stop mirror body language investment. We're going to watch how she's moving, where she is around us. All right, so when you get a girl who's a different, her typical body language is going to be back turns. She's going to not look at us in the eyes. She's going to look around a little bit. But a typical non-investing body language, right? If you remember back to commandment three, we're going to be shadowing her. We're literally going to be constantly trying to keep this going, talking to a wall almost. So we have to battle this or make up for this by mirroring what she's doing with her body language. So you're going to fight your instinct to invest more with her body. All it's going to do is make her feel uncomfortable. It's rapport seeking. If she turns a little away from you and you just come up more to try to talk to her some more, it's going to go downhill. So if the girl's here and I see her do this a little bit, and I'm facing her, I'm going to keep talking and do this. I'm just going to literally kind of mirror her. Now what happens? I know some of you, I have this question because it haunted me for a while. What happens if the girl literally does one of these? Like she turns almost completely away from me, right? I can't just talk to her like this. That's just weird. So in that case, I'll just reposition. I have feet. I can move. So many people don't think they have feet when they go and talk to a girl. They literally just, I have to stand here and I can move this way and do things with my arms, but these are planted, all right? I think like Bruce Lee, I want to be moving around. I want to be positioning myself wherever I see fit. So if a girl comes over here facing this way, I'm just going to move and talk to her this way. I'm just going to position myself right in front of where she's pointing. Make sense? You can move. Don't think you can't. The idea is that the verbals and your nonverbals cancel out. It's almost like a push-pull. With my nonverbals, I'm matching her a difference. I couldn't, you know, I don't care at all. These are concepts like false time constraints come in or that body rocking. I'm about to leave any second. But verbally, I'm committing. I'm blasting things off. I'm friendly with her. The other thing, it kind of messed my mind a little bit because in the community, you always hear stuff about make strong eye contact. Always make really strong eye contact. This is the one time when you have to watch this. I noticed I got much better results when I would have my eyes wandered around, when I wouldn't like lately look with her right in the eyes. When I did make eye contact, I kept it. And she looked at me, I would keep it. And I would keep that strong because I wanted that contact. But if she would break off, it became very rapport seeking for me to constantly try to make eye contact with her and stare at her. I would just mirror her.  You've got to counterbalance your verbals with your nonverbals. You can't just go all in and try to do engage rapport seeking. You have to balance this. All right, it's kind of a tightrope act. I'm not going to lie. On one hand, you're plowing in there. You're staying, you're keeping the set going. You're constantly talking. On the other hand, I could walk away any minute. I want nothing from you, yet I have to keep talking to you in a friendly way because that's just kind of guy I am.  It's very much a tightrope act. All right, commandment number six. Thou shalt use social trap questions. All right, this is the first time we're going to try and really bait her to invest. We can do nothing if we're just the ones plowing and talking. We've got to start doing things to get her involved in this interaction. So what is social trap question? It's questions that creates feeling of social obligation. It's things that she just feels a need to address or say. It's just really rude or really awkward for her not to.  They can't handle feeling miscalibrated more than you do.   If a girl thinks she's doing something miscalibrated or something that's socially awkward, it haunts her. They have to be socially appropriate. They put so much more weight on this. So much of my game, so much of what I do is based on punishing a girl by making her think she's being socially inappropriate. She's being miscalibrated because then she feels a real hard instinctual need to fix that. And that helps bait her to invest. That helps bait her to chase. So what are some examples of questions? One you should, one almost everyone here will probably know if they've read some any sort of stuff on this, which is, so how do you all know each other? There's a reason this line has been used since 2002 and it's still being told to everybody. There's a good reason because it works. It gets them opening up.  You know, whatever. They start explaining the dynamics. Another one could be, which one of you is more outgoing? All right, why do you say that? Get them explained, open in question. Or something simple. Like, I'm thinking of switching out my usual checking code drink tonight. Any suggestions? I'm gonna be like, no. It could, but then you can just be like, well, what are you drinking? It gets them to open up and start talking to you. That's not in the typical interview format. Where are you from? What do you do? What's your name?  It's more like I'm just being social and asking these normal friendly questions I'd ask to anybody. It always comes under the guise of polite curiosity. I'm not coming in gaming. My usual approach, again, I wanna stress this, is I will come and approach a girl, assuming she's gonna be attracted to me. Assuming it's gonna be on, she's gonna love me, it's gonna be playful, it's gonna be great. And then I'm gonna see there's the indifference there and it's not happening that way.  All right, so all this has to be under that polite curiosity frame. These social trap questions are gonna be very situational. I gave you some standard ones, but more often than not, it's gonna be what's going on in that group. It's gonna be stuff on the current events, observations you're making about her. It's gonna be on the things that she said or the way she's moving or acting. There's gonna be something that triggers your mind of this is a question I should ask this girl. And you need to bait this out of her. This is a bait tactic right now, this commandment. So do it by encourage your motions. Look here expectantly. So for example, what did you do yesterday? Yeah? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And while you're walking around. Mm-hmm, what kind of restaurants? Do you guys see how he's doing that? All right, all I'm doing is encourage your motions, quick simple questions, and how? Restaurants?  The entire time looking expectantly, not in my head, like, yes, tell me more. What else? It gives you that feeling. Hopefully you felt that pressure also of, oh, okay, I got it. What else do I say here? Right, and that's the feeling I want to create in that girl, that little bit of nervousness, that feeling of, oh, maybe I'm doing something wrong here. Maybe I'm the one being uncalibrated. Even if the girl doesn't like you, and she's feeling different, she wants to know in her mind I'm calibrated. I'm doing the right kind of things. So again, this is how you're baiting her to do it.  He knows I'm being indifferent. He knows I don't like him. So why would he keep talking to me?   If you keep doing it though, if you keep talking to that friendly vibe, you don't acknowledge it, and you start baiting her this way, she starts opening up without realizing she's opening up. It's really kind of funny to watch. When you start playing with this, you're going to start seeing it's like, almost like a subconscious thing she can't control. She starts trying to be indifferent. She just realizes, oh, I have to answer this. And then she goes back, oh, well, I have to answer this as well, and gets in. And then all of a sudden, you just get into this conversation. And from there, we can break into attraction. All right. Commandment number seven. Thou shalt use intrigue. This done correctly is deadly. This will almost always turn a different set around. Now, the problem is it's really hard to improv. Intrigue type stuff. You may want to use some routines that bank on this. Again, oldie but a goodie. One of the most famous ones was the best friends test. How does that get them open up? Why was that used right off the opener? Because it's intriguing. Have you guys took the best friends test? Do you know if you're really best friends? Well, no, but now I want to know. Like, what the hell is that? I've never even heard of this before, right? It baits that chase response. That's all I'm trying to do here. Again, not about traction. It's just, can I get her chasing? So you might want those specific routines, but if you don't have them, there is a way, a natural way to do it every time. And that is using open loops. Open loops are one of the easy ways to trigger that chasing switch that makes conversation just instantly easier, all right? And it's a really easy way to make open loops happen. All right, so let's go on the next slide. Command-minate. Hope you saw that open loop. All right, I'm going to give you some examples of how to make that happen, all right? All you have to do is cut off what you're saying, leave that intrigue there, and then just move on. And ideally what's going to happen is they'll start coming back and chasing after you. If anyone's used an old school routine like theCUBE, for example, you start telling all these interesting things about yourself, you use that CUBE stuff, and then all of a sudden, you just use, you get ADD and you realize, oh yeah, what's going on over here? By the way, I want to ask you something. What happens? She goes, what, no, no, go back to the, what does that mean? You never told me what it means. What was the next question? That's banking on this intrigue principle. So, but again, theCUBE's, that's something you couldn't use till later on. What's something we can use right off the bat within different girls? How can we spark it then? Some fun open loops are, you do realize there's a guy here who's been staring at you for an hour, right? Even if the girl was literally like, what, nothing to do with you, she has to know, who, what guy? She's instantly intrigued at this point.  I don't know if you knew this. Doesn't matter how hot she thinks she is or what she knows. What, I have to know now. What makes me unapproachable? Why, right? She's now invested. It's one of the quickest ways you're gonna get from nothing to her, okay, I need to converse with you. I need to have this conversation. And with that, we can then move on. We can then progress it and bit by bit build that compliance. All right, commandment number eight. Now she'll cycle through topics she may find interesting. All right? So many guys plow and they do not use this. They don't, they just talk about whatever, right? Again, I can talk to a wall, but it doesn't make the wall want to talk back. We need to get her to want to be part of this, to want to engage. So for this, we're gonna instantly change interaction. When this happens, the interaction will instantly change. It's just a boom effect.  All of a sudden, I see some inner hits and she steps around and she goes, you know about that? You've seen this? Holy sh- I love that. Oh my God. Like, they'll light up. It's one of the freakiest things. So to do it though, you're gonna kind of be changing topics blind. You're not really gonna know where it's going. The only way to know which topics might hit or might not is A, just know a bunch of topics that women find interesting. And B, elicit the girl you're talking to. How is she dressed? How does she talk? What's her look? What's her vibe like, right? What kind of girl am I dealing with? If you go out a lot enough times, you can literally tell a girl's personality before you even approach. I can see a girl, I'll know if she's gonna be really receptive, if she's gonna be rude, if she's gonna be a rocker chick. I know this girl's personality. About like 90% success rate. I can just call it. You're gonna get an intuition for this. Ideally, what you wanna have happen is as you're setting through these topics and one hits, you're gonna wanna be something that you have in common. If you realize all friendships are based on commonalities, it's how we can vibe so easily off with one another. We're all here, we have one great commonality, don't we? We wanna get better with women. We wanna better our dating lives.  No way. It's gonna come up to like, all right, so dude, I'm working on this approach, right? But I don't really have a good transition off. I was wondering what you're thinking about this. Like no one who comes and talks to each other, you're gonna talk about game. Because we all know that's our commonality. And through that commonality, we can become friends. It's easy. It's easy to go off of, right? So we wanna stop and start with the girl because vibing, talking, just becomes insanely easy again. And it's something we both like. What happens if we don't have that? What happens if I hit a topic that this girl loves and she's willing to invest now, but I don't know anything about it? Don't fear. If this happens, we can then use curiosity. All we have to do is show that I am curious about this thing you're interested in. I wanna learn more. Tell me more about it. And we get her talking. A lot of times, keep in mind, a girl's favorite topic is gonna be herself. That's why most of the time when I'm talking to women, I'm keeping the interaction on them. I'm keeping about either them, myself, or us together. I'm not just going into factual information as nothing to do with us. It's not stimulating. Here's a key point, though. Remember, once she's engaged, don't become our girlfriend. A lot of guys get too trigger happy with this. They're trying to balance difference. Your girl's not giving them anything. They're cycling. They're through different topics. And then all of a sudden, they find one that hits, and then they'll spend the next two hours talking about this thing they don't care about. It means nothing. Once you get in the friendly vibe with the girl and the indifference is over, you have to break out of it. You can't go from indifference to her just being all attracted and wanting you, but you can take that extra step, indifference to, okay, I like talking to this guy. I can talk about whatever, to now I'm teasing you, playing around with you, sparking the attraction. So you have to break out of that. And now I'm gonna give you a few female-friendly themes. So one would include outdoor activities. I've honestly found the hotter the girl, sorry, the higher quality of the girl, the more she likes outdoor type of activities. Whether it's scuba diving, whether it's hiking or running, whether it's the beach, you know, I'm from Florida, I've always loved the beach, beach-run life. Anything you could talk about those topics, the better. Party life, the best clubs out, what upcoming concerts are going on, favorite music and, you know, the best drinks, whatever. Other things, pop culture, uh, really great. This actually, this actually hit in a girl I used about two or three weeks ago, where I was battling this in different, I was throwing random stuff out there, and then all of a sudden I just brought out the Bachelorette with pop culture. Initially it flew open. They started role-playing, we're gonna give each other a rose, all this stuff. Luckily I knew about it, because one of my roommates is a girl, and she's always playing the Bachelorette, so I just started watching it. You gotta know the girly stuff that's going on pop culture. Another thing going on right now, Fifty Shades of Grey. You talk to any girl, they're basically reading it. One out of two girls is reading Fifty Shades of Grey. Other things deal with, you know, celebrity gossip, or anything going on right now. You have to understand this. If your only understanding of women comes from pouring at home and cold approaching in a nightlife, you don't really got that much to talk about, do you? You have to understand their mind. Personally, what I do is, I try to collect a ton of female friends. Girls, whether, or just... In fact, if I stop sleeping with a girl, I just make her a friend. I bring her into my soul circle. I keep them around. I don't want it to stop. I always want to have insights in the female mind. I always want women around me at all times. I don't want to be the guy that's gonna be 40 that has no female friends, it doesn't have anything going for him, but he's got his one-way man, and they're doing the predator look, walking around clubs like, oh, where's the girl? Where's the set? I want that one, yeah. I don't want to be that guy. So I want to cultivate that and learn about women by being around women, even as a friendship capacity. If you don't have three to five female friends, I say that's a bigger issue right now than, oh, I'm gonna be this SNL guy. Commandment number nine, thou shalt use the receptive girl. Now, usually, it's a pretty good idea if you see a group of girls, you want to open the one who looks the most receptive. We've heard a lot of stuff like, no, go direct, go right to the girl you want and say your stuff, right? We've also heard other confusing stuff like, no, no, no, never let her know you're interested. Talk to her friend and then sneakily get her, okay? Honestly, think about what you're doing, right? Either way's fine, it doesn't really matter. What really matters is, can I get into this group? Will they talk to me? Will I hook this? And if you're gonna do it, the thing that makes the most sense is, she looks like she'll talk to me, she looks like she'll bring me in, I'm gonna go talk to her. And she'll introduce me to the rest of the group. Think about that. If a girl introduces you to her friends, their friends can't really be like, oh, hit your line, what, just getting introduced by my friend? Right? I know that, pick a blind. It's like, it doesn't, it can't work that way.  It's a very easy way to get in. But with that said, we can use the receptive girl in another way. We can get the receptive girl to get the indifferent girl talking. We can use her as our wing woman in a weird way. The reason this is, the reason this is, is because if there's a receptive girl and a different girl, if I try to talk directly to the indifferent girl, she can just blow me off.  Like she can just keep on rejecting me and pushing me away. She can't really do that to her friend though, can she? Although she'd snub her friend. If her friend asked her a question, she'd look at her friend and go, right, that's her friend. So, all I have to do is get the receptive one talking to me and then subtly hint at ways to get her to bring the friend in, the indifferent one in. I'm not doing it. I don't need to talk to the indifferent one. The receptive one's doing it for me. So you could do it really subtly or you can be playing about it. I tell her to go my opinion on something. I get the receptive one's opinion and I go, you know what, ask your friend what she thinks. I bet it's different. I bet you you're wrong. Ask your friend. Well, now the girl wants to know. Is she wrong? Do people think like her? She'll turn to her friend and go, all right, well, yeah, what do you think, Sarah? Sarah's in a bind. All right? Sarah can't go to her friend. I don't want to answer his question that you're secretly doing for her. Like, she doesn't think like that, right? She's now, okay, well, I don't think I like it. Like, she now is committed to talking. But if I asked Sarah that same exact question, she could have shrugged. She could just completely blow it off and be indifferent. And I'll just keep using the receptive one to drag out more investment from the indifferent one. All right? Now, these nine commandments alone should pretty much get any different girl to start opening up. You're not seeing it. You're rejecting that strong, friendly frame.  You're constantly talking, following your leads. You're baiting to investors, social trap questions, baiting her with intrigue, you're using the receptive one. You're doing everything right to get this girl to talk to you. However, sometimes there's even the hardest of cases. Sometimes it's just not enough. And when those times, we then use commandment 10. Thou shalt use risky moves if all else fails. Now, when nothing's been working, okay, it's time to bust out a Hail Mary play.  I want to just clear to you, the opposite of love is not hate. I've heard of love-hate relationships. The opposite of love is a difference. I've never heard of a love-indifferent relationship. I've never heard of a girl that's like, I'm obsessed about you, but you all the time, too, wait, I forget your name. Sorry, I don't know who you are. Like, it never works that way. So, I might not be able to work with indifference. I have to turn that around. But if I get a girl hating me or angry with me, she's still committed to talking to me. It's still an emotional reaction. She's still getting stimulated. And from there, I can play off of it. You watch any classic romance movie. A lot of times, you're going to guy, what? What's your best drama or best love story? They end up hating each other at first, right? And then it starts turning it around. Now, again, in real world application, that's not ideal. But I have done it and it can be done again and again. So, by using these shock tactics, a girl will sometimes reevaluate you. Because remember, if the girl's giving you indifference, there's a reason why. You didn't come in strong enough. You didn't come off confident enough. She didn't like your look. She made a snap judgment about you that said, this guy is low value.  I don't want to deal with him. He does not do it for me.  She has to reevaluate. Maybe I was wrong. Whoa, where the hell did that come from? Yeah, she might get mad, but cool. Again, angry is better than difference. So, all right. So remember that. It's better to have her angry with you. So let's go over some of the shock tactics I've used. All right. One was a lot of times when you're talking to a girl, she's indifferent. She starts looking away. She won't make eye contact with me.  Point of my eyes. Another thing. It's rude if a girl is literally like you're talking to her and she's just texting away. If a girl's just doing this, I just put my hand over it. Focus. All right. I made it enough for the both of us. All right. The other one. If I'm talking to this girl, and she's being completely indifferent to me, and again, I'm doing all my bathing stuff. It's not working. Nothing's coming out. I'm doing my friendly vibe, but she still wants to ignore me. Okay. I'll do something she can't ignore. I'll just start touching her. I'll just start, you know, touching her more as I'm speaking. Then all of a sudden, it starts rubbing the back. Then I put my arms around her. I'll tell you what it is. I'll just keep escalating until sex if I have to. I honestly don't care. Like, she will notice something's happening. All right. Because it's very easy to ignore someone talking. You can ignore like, I don't hear you. I don't hear you, but you can't say, I don't feel that. I don't feel this. It's not happening. Like, that's not ever going to happen. So, Lily, go it. Get blown out. I'd rather get blown out for over escalating than just being like, I just got nothing to say. She's not feeling it. I'm just going to walk away now. No, push it. A lot of guys, I tell this to all my students, all of them. I would rather, because they all send me their fear reports or they send me, you know, audios or they're set that I'm breaking it down with them during our personal training. I tell them again and again, I would rather hear you get blown out after two minutes of pushing it forward than hear this 20-minute-long interaction that's going nowhere where you're literally just vibing with her more and more because you just don't want this set to end. Let this set end. I'd rather you take risks. And this is one of them. Another one is, I'm not for negs. I'm not a big proponent to them. But they do have their place sometimes. Negs are false qualifiers. Again, if a girl's acting this way, I've got to rattle her up a bit. And this might be a way to do it.  Or a false qualifier, something like, All right, let me ask you something. Do you have any friends that are like the exact opposite of you? Just by curiosity, right? It'd be like, what does that mean? I want that. I want her. What does that mean? It is what it is. As you go, oh, like that we got a little bit battle. Now I'm going to show you also a way to get out of this because it's very easy to say, yeah, you know what? They get really mad.  And then, you know, somehow you turn it around. But no one ever really tells you that somehow, do they? And it's just like, just have tight game. And then it'll turn around. All right? I gotta tell you, I ran the tightest game I knew how and it was not turning around. All that happened to girl would just get mad at me. And I go, well, I guess my game wasn't tight. Like, I don't really know. So here's how to get around. Rile her up.  She's going to come back at you. She's going to say something to you, right? You're going to see them back. You're going to get mad at her again. Bant her back. She's going to banter at you. You feel the tension rise. You're going to see each other's faces now, right? It's getting to the point where you know she's about to walk away. If you take it to that next level. And right at that point, you go, oh my god, you're awesome. That is sick.  I give you points.   I'd be like, you're awesome. Hug. And just start hugging her. Just be like, that's cool.  She's not going to say, no, I'm not.  Like, she's not going to say that, all right? She's going to agree with that frame and all of a sudden this tension that she was feeling this in face turns into attraction. It turns into, okay, cool.  Let her have that small victory and you will win the war. Anytime you got, I want you guys to try that and let me know how that works for you. As soon as you feel like it's really riled up, this girl's like in my face, like, oh, if I see the next thing, I'm like, like the only thing, like the woman I found us out, I was talking to the girl and I said something about it, whatever. And she goes, yeah, well, you're ugly.   Now, I can have this up and go, okay, slut, little horse. You know, I mean, I could, I could, at this point it's tough, right? And I was realizing, that was my move. I could say this. I could take it to the next level, but I know she's going to slap me and walk away. So I was really tempted. I was about to say it and then something sparked to me and I'm just like, you're awesome. You stand up for yourself. That's really cool. And then she merely smiles. She goes, yeah, I am.  And then she's like, all happy with me. Sickest thing I want you guys to experience is for yourself. It really is weird. All right, so let's put it all together. Okay, I went through a lot of different commandments with you guys. First thing is what is having common, preventive possible. Nothing is going to substitute for doing things right from the start. We never want to really rely on intervention tactics, but we want to know what's there. Same thing with LMR, right? What's the best way to deal with LMR? Is to not get it. So do everything right so that doesn't happen in the first place. Same thing with this. The next thing is don't react. You don't see it. You don't mention it. You don't notice it. It doesn't exist. Anything she does is positive. And it comes down to you also.   Let's get some standard, easy opener. Hey, how's it going?  You're going to look at that, right? Can you transition off of that?  You think smile. Like, oh, me too, girl. So what have you been doing all day? You're just going to feel happy about it. You're going to be, okay, I could work with this. But what if she says this? I'm doing fine. Right? She looks at you.  All right? You're just going to go, uh, okay, cool.  Like, you're immediately going to feel like you're going to have that backup reaction.  Oh, my God, bad reaction. And you feel this like shy away feeling. It just comes on top of you. While if she's all that smiley, like, I'm doing fine.  I'm in state now. You have to battle that. Even when she gives you the, I'm doing fine. You got to stay, keep it. You got to stay as an act as if she's set in a really positive way. You don't see the IODs.  All right? You literally just don't see them. In the back of your mind, you know, but it doesn't faze you. You're emotionally unreactive. Next is plow and bait. If she's giving you nothing, she's literally a wall. I can talk to a wall. How? I taught you. Command me three. Remember this. Just keep talking. Plow with it. And every time you get, just bait her. Gail a bit more. Gail a bit more. Intrigue. Social trap questions. Receptive girl. All these things to try to get her to now talking to you and making conversation happen.  Now this should just go of its own accord. It's one of the biggest things I've seen. I've seen girls really attracted to guys after projecting a good confident vibe and they're just doing nothing that, you know, pick upy. And all of a sudden they use something routine and lying to her. And again, it's really like gaming, like expression and mode. And I can see the traction just drop right off. And you guys are thinking, but I learned to score line. Like how? Like why? That doesn't make sense. But this is what happens. Especially true for girls being indifferent. If she's set, because what is gaming? Gaming means you want something from her. Right?  Just get away. Get away. You give me 20 bucks.  Just give me. Right? You mean just like, no, I don't want to. Right? What you want to do in this case is I'm here talking to you for my own self. That's where you get ideas of self amusement. That's where you get those ideas of giving value. I don't want anything from you. I'm just here to have a good time, you know? Nothing from you guys. So avoid that all together. Now, my question to you. This is a valid question. Don't laugh. This is a valid question. Is it worth it? I'll explain why.  All right? You think it's hard now. It takes you to a whole another level. You're going to have to deal a real difficult journey ahead of you. And like that great movie the girl next door said, is the juice worth the squeeze? How bad do you want it? Because I see two types of guys in this community. On one hand, I see guys who get marginal success. They get something. And then they just stop pushing themselves. They stop going through that pain period.  That hopeless feelings, that dealing with rejection after night after night. And it gets you a point where it's like, do I really want to keep dealing with that bullshit? Or do I want to just keep getting the kind of girl I'm getting? Just more. More of them. Or just faster. I'll just get it faster. I'll pull them in right off the bat and just do it. Think about it. And it makes sense because those kind of guys, they get rewarded more often. It comes off easier. They get looked more like the man. But they never grow. They never get what they came in here for. It's a very easy trap to fall into. It's a very good beginner, intermediate trap. Then they have the other guys who constantly push themselves forward. Who will see that player's dilemma. This girl's low quality, but she's down. This girl's really high quality. There's only a small chance. And they will take that again and again. That's what I did. But when you take that and you roll that dice again and again, you get rejected a lot more. You have to deal with it over and over and over again. You're going to have to deal with not getting frequent results in. That's not an easy path to take. But I will say this. The juice is worth the squeeze. I promise you. If you go through that pain period, if you push yourself through this, it can literally be one of the most rewarding experiences of your life. And not even that what's happening is like, oh, this is the most amazing. This is so cool. The real rewarding experience is when you look back and you remember that little guy that was on a brink of suicide, was on seeing tons of psychologists who came from a really dark place to now feeling completely fulfilled, to blessing every day he has, to living an adventurous lifestyle that just did not seem possible before. It chokes you up inside. It literally is one of the most powerful feelings you can have. Seeing a transformation of that level. That's the journey I went through. That's what I was able to achieve for myself. And that's what I strive for every day to achieve for every one of you. All right. I'm Jack, guys. Thank you for your time.


Namaste. In last few sessions, we are discussing cost volume profit analysis, then BEP analysis and how it can be applied in various decision making scenarios. We had done two illustrations about calculation of contribution, PV ratio, BEP and so on. And in last session, we did two cases where sales mix was involved. So, computing BEP not just for one product, but for a sales mix and using BEP and weighted average PV ratio commenting on which sales mix is more suitable. So, if you remember we had done two sums, one on Ganesh limited and then on Keshav limited where we try to study two sales mixes and comment on its on their suitability. Today, we will go a step further and we will try to make a draft budget. So, we will do a kind of sensitivity analysis that this is the current budget. According to the desires of management, according to the needs of scenario, we want to incorporate certain changes in it. How will the profit statement change according to it? This is what we have to study. I hope you have got a printout. If no, please take the printout right away and then sit with me and try to solve the problem. So, Satvahan enterprises has prepared a draft budget. So, they have made a budget of 10,000 units, sale price is 30, direct material 8, labor 6 and variable overheads 1 per hour rates are also given. So, total variable cost is 15 and contribution per unit is also 15. Let me shift this a bit down. So, total is 15 here contribution per unit is 15. Now, they have already given us contribution as per the current budget. So, it gives a budget contribution of 150,000 because 10,000 units into 15 means 150. Their budgeted fixed overheads are 140 giving them a profit of only 10,000. Now, naturally management is not very happy with low profits. They want a more suitable tactic, a better strategy, a better way of doing business. So, they have asked a working party to come up with alternate budgets with better or higher profit figures. Now, working party reports back with the following suggestions. One they say which will lead to budgeted profit of 25,000. Now, they suggest that company should spend 28,500 on advertising and put the sale price up to 32. So, current sale price which is 30 will be increased to 32. It is expected that sales volume would also rise to 12,000. So, from current 10,000 the sales volume will increase to 12. Now, they have to increase their production. They only have a capacity of 10, they have to increase it to 12. Now, in order to achieve extra production, the workforce that is existing employees have to reduce the time taken for each unit of the product and it is proposed to offer a pay and productivity deal so that more wage rate is paid and wage rate is increased to 4. You can see their current wage rate is 3. For 2 hours at the rate of 3, they are getting 6. Now, we want to give a better deal to employees and increase their wage rate to 4. The hourly variable overhead rate will remain same. Now, after incorporating these changes, you have to give alternate budget, got it? Now, start doing it with me. How will you start now? I have just drawn a structure for you for ease of understanding. Firstly, just record the current draft in a proper format. So, they have given us this as a current draft. Let us try to put it in a proper format in Excel. Then you can incorporate certain changes. So, please draw this structure. This is called as a first draft. Number of units are 10,000, sale price is 30, the variable cost is 8, 6 and 1 that is 15, contribution per unit is also 15, 30 minus 15, total contribution 150, 140 is a FC, profit is 10,000. This much was already given. Compute the PV ratio.  So, hourly also you can do its 50 percent. What is the breakeven point? FC upon PV ratio. So, 280,000 and breakeven point in units is 9333.33. So, you can see they are just operating little above breakeven. That is why the profit is very low. Now, incorporate their suggestion, make these changes that spend some more money on advertising, increase the sale price and so on and calculate the revised budget. So, what is the new number of units? From 10,000 it has increased to 12,000, selling price is now 32, direct material cost is not going to change, it is going to remain constant at 8, write down the labor variable overheads and so on and compute the profit for revised budget. I will increase the fixed cost from 140, we will now go to 168,500 because we will add advertising expense of 28,500. How much will be material, labor and overheads? Are you able to compute? They already we know that they have a target of 25,000 of profit. See it is very clearly given that which will lead to budgeted profit of 25,000. So, anyhow they want to make a profit of 25. Are you able to compute these components of VC? It is not a straightforward calculation, you cannot directly compute this. You have to go back for a desired profit of 25, new fixed cost is 168,500. So, total contribution is 193,500. You know the number of units. So, you can compute the contribution per unit 16.125. How to get? Because one, the total contribution which you must earn is 193,500 divided by 12,000 will give you 16.125. You know the new selling price which is 32. So, 32 minus 16.125 that means your variable cost should be 15.875. Now, are you able to match in that? I think it will be tough because direct material is 8. What is the new labor cost? They have increased the labor rate because they want to increase the production from 10 to 12. See they have taken that given that it is a pay and productivity deal. Since workers are increasing the number of units, we are giving them 4 rupees per hour. So, if you take 4, the current calculation was 2 into 3. If you make it 2 into 4 now, it will be 8, 8 and 1. What will be the total? The total will be 17. But we do not want the total variable cost to exceed 15.875. So, how to manage it now? Are you able to do it? Because see direct material cost is not going to change that is simple. Direct material cost there is no change. What about labor cost? Will it change? It will because the rate is now going up. But will it go to 8 rupees? No, because number of hours must come down. As per the current calculation, it is 2 hours per unit at 3 rupees. See they are saying that in order to achieve extra production workforce must be able to reduce the time taken to make each unit. That means we are offering a pay and productivity deal. We are telling workers, we will give you more rate. But you cut down the number of hours from 2 rupees to something less than 2. Sorry, 2 hours to less than 2. Then only we will give you 4 per hour. So, this cannot be 2 into 4. This must be less than 2. So, now how will you calculate that figure? Suppose you take it as x, it will be 4x. Getting it 4 because the labor rate will go to 4 now. Suppose the labor cost is 2, it will be 4x. What about variable overheads? In variable overheads also they have given that hourly rate of variable overhead will be unaffected. But the total amount of 1 will change because it is 2 hours into 0.5. So, whatever is new rate, sorry new hours which is x, it will be 0.5x. So, 4x and 0.5x that means, 4.5x is total of labor plus variable overheads. And we already know that total should not be more than 15.875. So, 15.875 minus 8 it should be 7.875. Now with this data try to work back the quantum of x. Here I have tried to show you the calculation. It is 4x and 0.5x. We already know that the total is 5.15.875. That means, 4.5x is equal to 15.875. So, we get if you divide this you will get x as 1.75. If you remember earlier they used to take 2 hours per unit. They are supposed to cut it down. So, they have cut it down to 1.75. So, now 1.75 is the new value of x into new rate that is 4. 1.75 into 4 you get 7 and 1.75 into 0.5 you get 0.875. So, if you take total of these 3 it becomes 15.875 and then everything matches. Are you getting? So, they will be able to achieve the target profit, increase the production, give more payment to workers, do everything provided they can reduce the number of hours per unit from 2 to 175. That is a offer we want to make to workers that okay we are willing to increase your rates provided you cut down the number of hours to 1.75. Now, I hope you would have got that if you can make this calculation perhaps management will be very happy because they get 2.5 times the profit. Even the total sales of the company are also going up workers will also be happy because they get more payment. So, it is a win-win deal to begin with first of all we have to show all these proper calculations. So, that all parties are happy and then of course, one has to do execution properly to ensure that productivity increases the time is cut down. So, the cost is cut down and the contribution goes up now you can see the contribution has gone up there is an increase in fixed cost despite that you are making more profit.  So, 0.50 what is a new BEP will it go up or will it fall down actually new BEP has gone up is it a good sign actually not so much of good sign because company has committed new fixed cost that is why their BEP has slightly increased and BEP in terms of units has also increased. So, it is a slightly risky proposal company will have to take little more risk to ensure that they are able to improve their profitability. I hope you are getting it. So, with this we will stop here. Namaste. Dhaniwal.


Hello and welcome to Power Up Hawaii, where Hawaii comes together to walk towards a clean, renewable and just energy future. I'm your host, Raya Salter. I'm an energy attorney, clean energy advocate, and also a community outreach specialist. I'm the principal attorney of Imagine Power LLC. Today, we're going to take a look at important energy and utility news from Hawaii, around the country and the world, as reported in the last week. We're also going to take a deep dive into the huge news out of Washington about President Trump rolling back Obama era climate regulations and protections. But first, let's take a look at some recent developments in clean energy and clean energy policy in the islands. So the Maui Energy Conference, which is now in its fourth year, happened last week and it reported the highest number of attendees in its short history. According to organizers in Pacific Business News. So the conference kicked off last Wednesday at the Maui Arts and Cultural Center at Kahului and it's had more than 350 people in attendance. So says Doug McLeod, chairman of the conference program committee. So I think this is great news. I myself in 2014 spoke at the Maui Energy Conference. I think it's a great gathering. I think that people here, we thirst for places where we can come together and talk about, mix it up with folks, new folks, new ideas, just bring new energy and new ideas forward and really get together and talk about them. So it's great that the conference happened. We've got a lot of news that comes out of the conference that we're going to talk about today and bravo that attendance is up so we can see a healthy Maui Energy Conference next year and hopefully long into the future. So moving ahead, a Maui project involving Japan's Hitachi Limited that is aimed at improving the integration of renewable energy sources such as solar and wind power and preparing for the widespread adoption of all electric vehicles has just concluded its evaluation phase and is now continuing on to the next phase. So this is great. I think this is another example of new technologies, new models for technologies including electric vehicles moving forward and taking off here in the islands. Folks have talked for a long time about how Hawaii can be an incubator for new technology. Hawaii can show the rest of the world how to do clean energy, encouraging news on electric vehicles coming out of Maui with Hitachi. Moving right along, Pacific Business News reported this week that the Washington, DC-based 21st century utilities is apparently still showing interest in Hawaii's largest utility. Cheryl Roberto from the company, and I'll say actually I used to work for her at the Environmental Defense Fund so I know her quite well, spoke at the Maui conference which was seen as a signal that they are testing the waters. Gene Scog, the outgoing president and CEO, oh actually I see that there's some mix up in the script but that's alright, 21st century utilities. We'll talk about that just a little bit. That is, I think we, a lot of folks thought that the ego companies even though the next era deal fell through but it was still going to be an attractive target for potential suitors who may also look to acquire it and I think 24th century utilities demonstrates that Hawaii remains an attractive space to play for a lot of reasons including those that folks wouldn't expect. So 21st century utilities is not a traditional utility company. They're really seeking to work with the utility that is right to look at a new business model and new ways of doing business. So it's really interesting that I think this has come as far along as it has and I think we'll just have to see. I think there's a lot of anxiety, you know the next era process was very long. I think it must have been expensive and a lot of energy for next era to go through. Another suitor may not be fully scared away by that but they're going to want to take it seriously in terms of what does it mean to go through this process, what is the likelihood of success but I think it's great that that dialogue continues and welcome Cheryl. I wasn't there but I'm sure you gave a fantastic presentation at the Maui Energy Conference. So we're going to pick up a little bit about that electric vehicle project that I had talked about earlier. So the CEO of the Maui Economic Development Board who is a partner in this electric vehicle project with Hitachi said Wednesday at the opening day of the Maui Energy Conference that the Jumpstart Maui project which was launched in 2013 is now building on its valuation phase and outcomes and developing that next phase that will be unveiled in the months to come. So the demonstration has been between Japan and Hawaii and an incorporate smart grid renewable energy and all EV strategies to achieve a cleaner future for Maui. So the Jumpstart Maui project partners and it's a long list but I'm going to go ahead and read them to you. It includes the new energy and industrial technology department organization of Japan so that's a particularly ministry in Japan. The county of Maui, the DBET, the State Department of Business Economic Development and Tourism here in Hawaii, Maui's Economic Development Board, Hawaii Natural Energy Institute at U of H and the University of Hawaii Maui College, Hawaiian Electric, Maui Electric, the US Department of Energy, Mizzou Corporate Bank, Cyber Defense Institute, Advanced Energy Company, Nissan, HNU Energy and Hitachi. So we're talking about a real ecosystem of stakeholders that have come together around this technology. Now the long term goal of this project is to use EVs to create a virtual power plant that will integrate and manage distributed energy resources such as EV batteries and solar within the electric grid for the benefit of the community, it's website said. Food and energy, it's always, I think this is, folks you've got to excuse me because part of this is just my script. Food and energy, it's always been made out, so that I think is the, forgive me, that's the end of the discussion about the EV project. So I'll talk about it just a little bit more. Super interesting because the promise of electrification of the transportation system and when advocates talk in PUCs and talk policy about electric vehicles, it's really important to say electrification of the transportation sector and not just talk about electric vehicles because really the battery that is within that electric vehicle can store energy and then can then be a source of energy. So it is something that electric vehicles hold a lot of promise as an energy source here as we're talking about a virtual power plant. So it's important, we look holistically at the car, we think of it as something that we drive but when it's charged perhaps plugged in at home that battery could be deploying for other power reasons and could provide a new income source for the owner of that vehicle. So it's important that if that value is there we want to extract that value from the good and in this instance it's an electric vehicle so that's great and we'll see what happens with this really intriguing holistic multi-partner collaboration. So I was going to then talk a little bit about the conversation about the food, water and energy nexus that happened at the Maui Energy Conference. So it's often been made out to seem that there's a competition between energy and ag in particular because there is a finite amount of farmland and this is something that Rick Volner who is a general manager of Hawaiian Commercial and Sugar Company was talking about. Now there was a panel at the Maui Energy Conference that talked about water, food security and energy. The conference sponsored by the Maui Economic Development Board and the county as we talked about it became Wednesday and brings together experts on energy and sustainability from across the country. So what the point that Volner was making is that food, water and energy it has to intersect in agriculture and Jonathan Cohn who is a panel moderator and sustainability coordinator for the city of Boulder, Colorado. So water is used to produce food, energy is used to move water and power machinery and the lack of coordination and inconsistency between laws at the national level mean that these three sectors are sometimes out of sync. So on Maui there's right now a contested case about stream flows. The closure of HC and S in December and the state's push towards 100% renewable energy in 2045 have all changed the conversation around water and food and energy. In a prime example of this was Sugar said Volner. The sugar making process also produced molasses and baguettes, the fibrous cane material that helped power the mill. So Volner said there are lots of other opportunities for agriculture to boost energy production and that food and energy don't have to compete for land space. Some portions of land are better suited for growing food, others for energy production he said. So statewide agricultural land use has gone down from nearly 2.5 million acres in 1937 to just under 1 million in 2015 according to state data. But during that same time diversified agriculture has grown from nearly 20,000 acres to about 60,000 acres. So keeping an eye on groundwater sources is part of ensuring water security. Said Jeff Pearson, Deputy Director of the State Commission on Water Resource Management. So the state places sustainable yield limits to make sure groundwater sources aren't overpumped. If certain areas get too close to their maximum yields, management of the areas transferred from the county to the state. So on Maui making sure there's enough water to go around has long been an issue between East Maui farmers and the sugar plantations that diverted the streams from their taro patches. Now that dispute will return to the forefront in June when the contested case will be ready for review according to Pearson. So Volner said that HCES focused the majority of their time and effort in 2016 on really winding down sugar operations. Now it can concentrate on projects like raising cattle, getting local farmers onto former sugar lands and looking at renewable energy opportunities, whether agriculture based a more traditional like solar and wind. So interesting story that illustrates the importance of the food, water and energy nexus. And I think that it's extremely important to note that although there is sunny talk about the need to optimize the use of energy and water and land at this nexus, it is probably after climate change and climate justice whereas Hawaii will face the effects of climate change and rising seas and extreme weather events before other countries even though it did pretty much the least to contribute to it. Other than that justice issue, what will be the justice issue going forward is going to be land use allocation as we move forward towards our renewable energy goals. How are we going to use the land, what will we grow on it? So we'll keep our eye on that but it's really good that there's a groups are really stirring up the conversation about the land, water and energy nexus. So we've got a $167 million power plant currently being built in Central Oahu at the Army's Schofield Barracks and it's expected to be operational in the first quarter of 2018. So says a company executive with the Honolulu Bay's Utility. Scott Sue, Senior Vice President of Public Affairs for the State's Outreach Utility, said at the opening day of the Maui Energy Conference that the initial operation of the 50 megawatt project will run on biofuel and will operate as a micro grid during emergencies. The project is being called the most survivable power plant on Oahu. The Schofield Generating Station is being built on about eight acres that is being leased from the Army to Hawaiian Electric. The utility estimates a monthly increase in a typical customer bill ranging from a dollar, almost $2 to $2.5 in the initial year of the project and a decrease over time. Hawaiian Electric has chosen a Finland company to supply the power plant with six internal combustion engines aimed at enabling the generating station to integrate more solar and energy. So we are about to head to a break and when we come back we'll talk about a few more stories from Hawaii and then we're going to dig into the new Trump executive orders rolling back America's climate obligations and programs. Hi, I'm Tim Appachella. I'm the host of Moving Hawaii Forward, a show dedicated to transportation issues and traffic issues here on Oahu. Join us every other Tuesday at 12 noon and as we discuss how we try to solve our traffic headaches not to include just the rail but transit and carpooling and everything in between. So join us every other Tuesday, Moving Hawaii Forward. Thank you. You want to talk about some socially sensitive issues relevant to women? Listen to these guys. Well, I think it's important in Judaism that we don't take the Bible literally. We take it seriously. Okay. I agree and really the key to understanding Christianity is compassion. If you're compassionate towards other people you are living a Christian life and that relates also to dealing with women and men and women issues as well. Are women and men equal? They're equal. Who's better? Who's better? Depends on what. Hello and welcome back to Power Up Hawaii where Hawaii comes together to walk towards a clean, renewable and just energy future. We're going to continue talking about news as reported in the last week. We're going to spend a little more talking about Hawaii news because there's so much because we had the Maui Energy Conference last week and then we're going to move to what I believe is some very disturbing national news about our president's action on climate. So I guess a bit of good news and we've reported on this before but Hawaii Energy, the rate payer funded energy conservation and energy efficiency program for Honolulu Hawaii in Maui counties accounted for more than 325 million in lifetime savings for its customers in the last program year. So says its top executive at the Maui Energy Conference. Those savings come as the program deals with a 25% cut in its budget. The current budget for Hawaii Energy whose program year runs from July 1 through June 30 is 27 million down from 38 million the previous year. Ryan Kealoha, executive director for Hawaii Energy and speaker at the Maui Energy Conference said that it helped reduce energy use for its customers by nearly 150 megawatt hours. The program, which is administered by Virginia based Lido's engineering LLC under contract through the Hawaii Public Utilities Commission accounted for nearly 40 million in its first year savings for its customers and 325 million in lifetime savings. So Hawaii Energy's efforts in its last program year equate to building a 90 megawatt solar energy farm. So this is just, you know, it's good news and when energy efficiency is done right by apparently a company that has been successful in doing so like Lido's, it just remains to be a really smart use of the dollar. So Hawaii Energy is making the most for the budget it's got, congratulations Ryan Kealoha, congratulations to Hawaii Energy and the team over there, great work. So WECS Solar, a provider of commercial solar and energy solutions announced that it completed the installation of the 27.6 megawatt Eurus YNI Solar project. So the Utility Scale project whose yearly output is equivalent to the electricity used by 11,000 homes is owned and operated by Eurus Energy, an independent power producer and global development of Utility Scale wind and solar projects. So the Eurus YNI Solar project is the largest installation in the state and a significant step towards Hawaii achieving its ambitious goal of operating 100% renewable energy by 2045. So it's built on 200 acres in West Oahu and it sells energy to Hawaiian Electric under a 22 year PPA and at approximately 14.5 cents per kilowatt hour making it one of Hawaii's lowest cost renewable energy projects. So I will make a few comments. So this is great, we've got great Utility Scale solar, lower cost energy that is coming online. Again, as I mentioned before, land use is going to be the justice issue with regards to renewables. So we've got 200 acres on the west side. We've got a company, a global energy company that is owning and operating this and I don't this could, you know, I don't mean to, I don't judge this deal at all in any way shape or form. But I would think that any community would wonder what is this, what is in this for me? What does it mean to have this much land used for this purpose? So I think it's really something that we're going to see more and more of going forward because clean energy is fantastic but utility assets are utility assets and they're not necessarily what you want to live next to, breathe next to, we want to cheer renewable as opposed to carbon based. And so, you know, this is what you would call a community or an energy justice issue, not saying this particular project is but I think going forward we're going to see a lot of issues that we should really look to tackle head on. So as reported by S&P, each year, typically before the start of a legislative session or shortly thereafter, the nation's governors generally give their state of the state addresses before their state legislatures, which highlights the fiscal condition of their states prior your accomplishments and successes, upcoming priorities, yada yada yada. Now as of March 20th, 49 governors have given such addresses. In Delaware, the governor didn't give an address and the nation's governors can have a significant impact on the composition of the agencies that regulate the utilities operating their jurisdictions. Commissioners serving at 35 state level utility regulatory agencies nationwide are selected by the state's governor. In the District of Columbia, commissioners are selected by the mayor. So all of this was to say that Kauai is governor David E. Gaye continues to take leadership and making sure that energy and clean energy is at the foremost of state of the states and this was picked up in this article about government leadership and which is also state leadership, which is also very important in the age of massive changes in the federal environmental regulation. So E. Gaye and Governor E. Gaye in his state address was stated that his state was well positioned to meet our targets and legislation was enacted in Hawaii in 2015 that of course we have our RPS requirements that were previously in place and make sure that renewables are going to be 100% of electricity sales by year in 2045. So this is just something that I wanted to highlight because while I think that we have to make sure that we don't have, RPS can't just be a one-trick pony and we can't just sort of duplicate the effects of deciding to have goals necessarily. I think that as I wake up early and I comb through the news to try and give you guys the latest stuff, it just, it comes up again and again and again in states throughout the country and discussions about clean energy throughout the world that Hawaii is taking leadership, that Hawaii has clean energy challenges and also opportunities and there's a wealth of activity happening here. So you know, great I think that Governor E. Gaye in the state are prominent, very prominent in this national conversation. So now we're going to talk about what I think is extremely difficult and challenging news and we're going to talk about it, we're going to grind through it for a while as reported from the New York Times because I think it's just extremely important and frankly I think people need to mobilize, people need to mobilize and make sure that their opinions on this issue is heard. So today, just a few hours ago, President Trump signed a much-anticipated executive order that's intended to roll back most of President Barack Obama's climate change legacy, celebrating the move as a way to promote energy independence and to restore thousands of lost coal industry jobs. Now flanked by coal miners at a ceremony at the Environmental Protection Agency, Mr. Trump signed a short document titled the Energy Independence Executive Order, directing the agency to start the legal process of withdrawing and rewriting the clean power plan, the centerpiece of Mr. Obama's policies to fight global warming.  The order also takes aim at a suite of narrower but significant Obama-era climate and environmental policies including lifting a short-term ban on new coal mining on public lands. The executive order does not address the United States' participation in the 2015 Paris Agreement, the landmark accord that committed nearly every country to take steps to reduce climate-altering pollution. But experts note that if the Trump program is enacted, it will all but ensure that the United States cannot meet its global warming commitments under the accord. Mr. Trump advertised the move as a way to decrease the nation's dependence on imported fuels and revive the flagging coal industry. Says President Trump, we're ending the theft of American prosperity and reviving our beloved, I'm sorry. What? And reviving our beloved economy? Well, kind of, sorry. I try to remain impartial, but that is some really strange stuff to say. Our beloved economy, okay. The miners told me about the attacks on their jobs. I made them mispromise. We will put our miners back to work. But energy economists say the order falls short on both of these goals, in part because the United States already largely relies on domestic sources for the coal and natural gas that fires most of the nation's power plants. We don't import coal, says Robert Stavins, an energy economist at Harvard University. So in terms of the clean power plant, this has nothing to do with so-called energy independence whatsoever. Scott Pruitt, the EPA administrator, said in an interview on ABC News on Sunday that the order will help the United States be both pro-jobs and pro-environment. A coal miner at a mine in Welch, West Virginia last May, I guess that's where he said that. President Trump has advertised his executive order as a way to decrease the nation's dependence on imported fuels and revive the flagging coal industry. But coal miners should not assume their jobs will return if Trump's regulations take effect. The new order would mean that older coal plants that had been marked for closing would probably stay open for a few years longer, extending the demand for coal, said Robert Goodby, an energy economist at the University of Wyoming. But even so, the minds that are staying open are using more mechanization. He said they're not hiring people. So even if we saw an increase in coal production, we could see a decrease in coal jobs. Legal experts say it could take years for the Trump administration to unwind the clean power plant, which has not yet been carried out because it has been temporarily frozen by a Supreme Court order.  If enacted, they would have shut down hundreds of those plants, frozen construction of future plants and replace them with wind and solar farms and other renewable energy sources. So the routest campaign, Mr. Trump highlighted his support of coal miners holding multiple valleys in coal country and vowing to restore lost jobs to the flagging industry. At a rally last week in Kentucky, Mr. Trump vowed that his executive order would save our, I'm sorry, it's just the superlatives, save our wonderful coal miners from continuing to be put out of work. I'm not saying we're not wonderful. While coal mining jobs have dropped in the United States, they do not represent a significant portion of the American economy. Coal companies employed about 65,000 miners in 2015, down from 87,000 in 2008, according to Department of Energy Statistics. So the percentage of coal mining jobs dropped sharply. Economists said it was not driven by the Queen power plan, rather. They blame two key forces. We've talked about this many times before on the show. It's the cheap natural gas, which is cheaper, cleaner burning alternative to coal, although we need to watch out for fugitive methane. And an increase in automation, which allowed coal companies to produce more fuel with fewer employees. The rollback of Mr. Obama's regulations will not change either of those forces, economists say. The problem with the coal jobs has not been CO2 regulation, so this will probably not bring back coal jobs, Mr. Goodby said. The problem has been that there has not been a market to man for coal. The coal industry nonetheless cheered the move. These actions are vital to the American coal industry, to our survival and to getting some of our coal families back to work, said Robert Murray, who's the chief executive of Murray Energy, one of the nation's largest coal mining companies. So I think really what I think, we don't have a lot of time left, but I think the biggest disaster about this is the wholesale con that this is somehow going to bring back jobs for people, that it's not going to bring back jobs to, and instead is going to continue to destroy our planet and harm human health. And it is a disaster by a president who has shown that he is a big supporter of big oil and coal and that's what's at issue here is the interests of big oil and coal and not coal miners who deserve work, honorable work, and deserve to be retrained for jobs that will actually continue to thrive in those parts of the country where I also hail from. So in that said, thank you so much for joining me for another edition of PowerUp Hawaii. I look forward to seeing you next week. Mahalo and Aloha.