Hello and welcome. My name is Michael Fully Love and I'm the Executive Director of the Lowy Institute. I'd like to start by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land on which the Institute stands, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, and I pay my respects to all their elders. It's my pleasure to welcome you to the 2021 Lowy Institute Media Lecture, which is part of a week-long program to mark our annual media award. This award was established in 2013. It's among the richest prizes in Australian journalism. We started the award because we believe the world matters to Australia, and so Australians need to be informed about the world. We also think it's important that Australians get to see the world through Australian eyes. We think that Australian journalists see the news in a way that others can't. Australian journalists on the global beat bring their own sensibilities to the craft of reporting. Qualities that include pragmatism, a lack of deference to authority, and a sense of humour as well as an understanding of Australia's interests. Sadly, the coronavirus pandemic and the closing of the international border means that many Australian journalists have not been able to be out in the world over the past year and a half. And for us here in Australia, the pandemic restrictions mean that instead of a nice dinner in Sydney, at which we celebrate Australia's international journalism, we're online instead to host the 2021 media lecture. Thank you to Rio Tinto for supporting this year's lecture as they have done for several years. In the past, this lecture has been given by a chair and a managing director of the ABC, the global chief executive of News Corp, a federal communications minister, columnists for the New Yorker and the New York Times, and a spy chief, whose father was also a storied Australian war correspondent. Being online this year does have this advantage that we're able to reach across the globe to speak with our 2021 media lecturer, the international correspondent and presenter, Yalda Hakim, who joins us today from London. Welcome, Yalda. Thank you so much, Michael. Before I invite Yalda to give her lecture, let me introduce her properly. Born in Afghanistan, Yalda Hakim was just six months old when her family fled the country during the Soviet invasion, seeking refuge abroad and eventually settling in Australia. She studied here in Sydney before securing a cadetship with SBS News, and she very quickly established herself as a reporter of great talent. She joined the SBS Dateline program, her first report for which was an emotional journey back to the country of her birth. She went on to become the presenter and host of Dateline before jumping to the BBC in 2012, where she's been a reporter and presenter and now host of the program, Impact with Yalda Hakim. And Yalda makes a lot of impact. Her reporting career has taken her from the United States to South Sudan and throughout the Middle East, including Libya during the Arab Spring and Iraq during the rise and fall of Islamic State. When she was on air recently, she received a phone call from Taliban spokesman Suhail Shaheen during the fall of Kabul, which she calmly put to air. She's also made an impact outside her work, establishing a charitable foundation to support young women in Afghanistan, helping them to access scholarships to attend university. Yalda is a first-class Australian reporter who began by telling Australians about the world and now tells those stories to a global audience. I have admired her work for a long time, so it gives me great pleasure to invite Yalda Hakim to deliver the 2021 Lowy Institute Media Lecture. Yalda. Michael, thank you so much for having me and it really is an honour and a privilege to be part of this event and to be speaking to you and the audience. Thank you so much for having me. As you said, I've spent the better half of the last sort of 15 years of my career really working in some of the most difficult and dangerous places on the planet. I've covered the conflict in Yemen. I've covered things in Iraq. I've travelled to South Sudan. I've covered the rise and fall of the so-called Islamic State. I've been there when we described the Arab uprisings as the Arab Spring and there was hope of better days and of course we saw how things have unfolded in that part of the world. And really, you know, I've seen the horrors of war and what that does, the impact of that on a community and a society. But I think what I didn't really ever grasp or fully understand is when you yourself become very much part of the story, when the story is so personal to you. And of course, as you've said, one of my first reports for Australian television was from Afghanistan. And I went back to Kabul as a 23-year-old armed with a camera which I taught myself to use, having just come out of a cadetship with SBS. And I arrived in Delhi having told, telling my parents that I was sent to India to cover a story which was not true. No one was sending a young cadet to India to cover anything. And I rang them to say that I was going to Kabul and I was going to figure out what was happening in the country of my birth. They panicked and jumped on a plane from Sydney to Delhi and my dad ended up being my fixer for three weeks. And that's when I filmed Yelda's Kabul. At the time I had no network, no contacts, no real understanding of how to film and bring together a half an hour piece. But Yelda's Kabul went on to become one of the highest-rating stories of that year for Dateline.  But at the same time, they said, look, if it works and if there is a story there, we'll pay you, but we'll air the story. So there was never any guarantee. And I think that's the one thing I learned early on as a journalist is to be enterprising and to find your point of difference and be able to use it. But I come back to the point about how the last two months has impacted me as a journalist. It's been incredibly personal, incredibly difficult. And I have now sort of eight weeks after the fall of Kabul really started to think about whether this has been a liability or a strength as a journalist. And I'm really having a moment of soul-searching because when I was on the front lines in Mosul when the coalition forces and the Iraqi forces were taking over the city, another place that I care about deeply and love and have covered for many, many years and have many friends in that country, my heart wasn't breaking the way that it broke on the 15th of August. And I remember the sleepless night that I had. I didn't want to sleep that night because as you mentioned, I have a foundation in the country. And I had those young girls on the phone to me, many of them from the Hazara Shia minority community ringing me and saying, we hear that the Taliban are at the gates of Kabul and we're so afraid we've burnt all our documentation that shows that we studied at the American University of Afghanistan. They shut down their Twitter and Instagram accounts. They basically eliminated any sign that they were associated to the Western world. They stopped speaking to me on the phone in English. They deleted all their messages that were in English and we decided that we would only speak in Farsi on the phone from that moment onwards. But in the early hours of the 15th of August at about four o'clock in the morning, we were planning an evacuation through my foundation and those who were supporting my foundation. And we knew we only had a few hours left and we still hadn't managed to figure out how we were going to get a chartered flight into the country. And I had these desperate young girls, 18, 19, 20 years old who were so incredibly frightened. And I remember thinking, I don't want to sleep because if I wake up, what if Kabul has fallen to the Taliban and what if this is the end for so many people who had so many hopes and so many gains from the last 20 years. And I woke up to a call at 6.30 in the morning from my editor saying, we understand the Taliban are at the gates of Kabul and we need you to come into the studio right now.  It was also Sunday and I don't go in and present my show on a Sunday. And she said, no, Kabul is falling and you need to come in right now. And to your point about the Australian work ethic, we don't say no when it comes to work, we work. So I thought, well, I can do both. I can still work on the evacuation while I'm on air and I need to tell this story because it is one of the biggest and most important stories of our time. So as I was making my way to the studio, I started to text to Hale Shahin who I'd met in Doha just a month earlier and who I'd built a relationship with for years but we'd met face to face for the first time in Doha. And I started to text him saying, you know, what is going on? I've got these frightened young women calling me through the night and they're saying the Taliban are at the gates of Kabul. Are you there? And what do you intend to do to the people of Kabul and Afghanistan? And he and I were texting as I was in the tube and as I came into the studio and as I went into makeup and we continued to text each other. And then I went into the studio. I was presenting the program. You know, I was talking to contacts and friends live on air, people I had known for many years talking about them losing their city and losing their country and the impact it was having on them and the fear that they were feeling. And then I saw my phone begin to ring in the studio and I was midway through an interview and I thought, I have to take this call. It is perhaps the call that everyone wants to hear from more than anything, the Taliban, what their intentions are and what's actually going on. And so I answered the call and for the next 40 minutes I sort of at the forefront of my mind kept thinking this isn't about me. It's about asking tough questions but allowing him to speak. It's not about the number of times I can interrupt this man. It's about me being able to put tough questions to him and then allowing the world and the Afghan people to hear from him what the intentions are. And I really thought about the young Afghan women that I'd been speaking to, the international community who were concerned about what was going on in the country at the time. And I felt those sorts of questions to him. And I suppose, you know, it really made me think about the importance of storytelling, the importance of getting to the truth. We often talk about whether the medium of television is critical. Do people really sit down and watch the six o'clock news anymore and gather around the television, you know, as a family? But I think in those moments when the stories are so big and when things are unfolding, people do tune in and people do watch and people want us as journalists to hold those in power accountable. It's not about making it about me. It's about chasing the story. It's about getting to the heart of the truth. And that is what I'm seeking. When I'm told by members of ISIS who have defected or members of the Taliban or people in power, you know, world leaders or those who are shaping policy, you know, how is this going to make me look? I'm not there to make anyone look good. I am there to seek the truth. And if something is the truth, I will report it. If the Taliban are assisting in creating pathways for people to leave the country, I will report it. If they are terrorizing people and going house to house and people are living in fear, I will report it. And I have told the Taliban this in my conversations with them that as a journalist, that's what we do. We seek the truth. And that, I feel, is the most important thing. And I've had those conversations with the Taliban in Doha. I've had those conversations with the Taliban in Afghanistan. And I hope that in the next month or so that I can travel to the country again, and I will be in a position to be able to do those things. And I think that the Australian media landscape, the competitive environment in that country, our work ethic, has armed me with those things as a reporter. That's where I was trained. That's where I learned to be a journalist. And I hope that I am able to be a credible journalist here in the UK and continue to do the kind of work that I do and that I'm able to offer our journalists, our audiences across the planet. Thank you very much. Thank you for those interesting remarks. I must say it has raised questions in my mind about the OH&S standards at SBS News that they sent a young cadet to Afghanistan, not to mention her father as the unpaid fixer. But thank you for those interesting stories. I want to ask you, draw you out on some of the things you said about journalism, about truth, and about Australia and your relationship to Australia. But I want to start with Afghanistan because you told us that remarkable story about your interview with the Taliban spokesman on air. And that, I guess, speaks to the fact that your personal connections to the story have given you information and knowledge and background and context and contacts and enable you to tell that story. But how does a personal connection like that limit your ability to tell the story? How do you maintain a critical distance on a story like Afghanistan, whereas you say in the last two months so much progress for the people of Afghanistan, not to mention, in particular, the women and girls of Afghanistan has sort of fallen away. How do you maintain the distance and maintain your commitment to telling the truth and telling the stories when you feel, obviously, when you naturally feel passionate about the country? Passionately about the country and also, Michael, not just invested as a journalist, but invested as, I suppose, in many ways, by establishing a foundation there. And I was asked by the American University of Afghanistan to set up a scholarship at their campus for young Afghan women. And we decided then to give back to the university to establish a foundation for it to not just be a scholarship that they have in my name, but to do much more. So I became invested in those gains of the last 20 years, especially for the progress of women and girls. And so for that to shut down for the university now to be the southern headquarters in Kabul of the Taliban, a campus that I long admired and traveled to several times. I gave lectures there. I met the students there. I was inspired by them. I funded them. And so they have said to me multiple times that there are two words that come to mind, abandonment and betrayal when it comes to this particular story. And so, yes, it's difficult, incredibly difficult when you're on air. And I remember speaking to someone who my producer had lined up, not knowing that they were a good friend of mine, a young female activist who I'd met 10 years ago and she worked tirelessly for women's rights. And suddenly she appeared on my screen as my next guest. And of course, that's the nature of rolling news where they're just telling me in my ear who the next guest is.  I knew her background. I knew her work. And it is heartbreaking to do that interview with her where she was so fearful about how much was going to be lost and the fact that she told me about her day running to the bank to get as much money out as possible, not knowing what her future held for her, not having lived under the Taliban. She was only five years old when the US forces, the coalition forces came to Afghanistan. So she's 25, she's known nothing but freedom and human rights and defending her human rights in that country, which was tricky at times, even with the Western backed governments. So it was incredibly difficult then to go from that interview and turn and answer that call from the Taliban and ask him about human rights and ask him about women's rights and for him to talk about public executions and stoning of women and what law and order and justice and schooling for girls would look like in going forward. But I suppose I've also mastered the art of compartmentalizing and being able to put my personal feelings towards the story to one side and address an issue which is in the public interest and for public good. And I feel like I've done that multiple times in my career. There was a time where I went to Bangladesh when the Rana Plaza collapsed and we went into a building which we were told by clothing companies across the world that they had shut down companies or the buildings that were faulty and looked like they were going to collapse. And of course, 2,000 people died in that Rana Plaza Bangladesh building collapse. But we saw a sign outside of the building that said be aware the building could collapse at any moment. And I had heard that there were hundreds of people still working inside that building. Now call it careless or call it stupid but we entered that building because it was important for viewers and the audience to know and to see that the clothing that they wear, that the garments that they buy are made in these factories and that there are children working in these factories and these factories are close to collapse. And so that I felt was important and in the public interest equally. And perhaps I put myself in danger and the team in danger to get to the heart of that story. Equally when it comes to something like this it's so important to get to the heart of the truth and to get to an understanding of what the other side thinks. And there was a lot in what Sahel Shaheen said. He said to me, we're not allowing our forces to enter the city because we do not want a bloodbath. Now hours later we learned that the president of Afghanistan fled the country and there were looters roaming around trying to enter buildings. So it was important actually for the Taliban to enter and that was a test for them to see if they were able to go and maintain some kind of security in the city. And so that was an interesting conversation to have later with him again about the fact that what he said actually did happen. There wasn't a bloodbath. There wasn't a level of insecurity that the Taliban created. It was scary of course. And we saw the horror that unfolded at Kabul airport but that conversation was important for the audience. It wasn't about me. You talk about it being important to understand what the other side thinks or what the interviewee thinks. What do you think, what do you believe the Taliban thinks about women and girls and some of these issues now? There was a lot of discussion after the fall of Kabul that they had reformed, they had evolved in their views. What do you think the evidence tells us about that? Every day on my program I speak to policymakers, experts, people who have been invested in Afghanistan not just for the last 20 years, but for the last 40 years. And yesterday I spoke to the EU envoy to Afghanistan, Michael Semple, and he said to me that the idea that the Taliban have reformed or that there's a Taliban 2.0 is a hoax, that they were his words. He said this is what I suppose those who wanted to withdraw from the country, it's a sort of messaging that they sell almost to justify the actions of the last few months and the last few years. Then in terms of investment in Afghanistan and then the subsequent withdrawal and the horror that we saw, the nightmare that we saw unfold in the country in the days leading up to the withdrawal. So have the Taliban changed or what are their views? I went to meet them in Doha just before the fall and I met members of the political office who said to me, we have reformed, we have changed, mistakes were made, we do want to work with the international community, we don't want to become a prior state, we do want an inclusive government. He said, Sahel Shaheen, when I met him there and other members of the political leadership, they said to me, we've seen the issues that we had in 1996 up until 2001 and so therefore we don't want to repeat of that. When I went to Kabul though, straight after that trip I met with a Taliban commander from Helmand who said to me initially in the conversation girls shouldn't be going to school beyond the age of 12. Then he changed his mind midway through the interview and said up until the age of 10. And by the end of the interview he said, actually in my village no girls go to school and I don't think there's a point in girls going to school and any woman who commits adultery should be stoned to death and there should be public executions. That is our form of sharia law and that is what I'm fighting for and I don't care if it takes me 40 years or 200 years, I'm going to topple this government and I won't stop. And so to your question about whether the Taliban have changed or reformed, it's now day 26 since the announcement about the return of schools in Afghanistan and boys have been able to go to school. Girls under the age of 12 have been able to go to school but teenage girls in secondary school have not. And so read between the lines. They're saying that they're waiting for the situation to become more secure. There is no war as far as the Taliban are concerned. There is no fighting. They then talk about a need to deal with COVID. Well, boys are exposed to COVID and girls under the age of 10 are exposed to COVID. So what is the issue there then with teenage girls? So there are a lot of questions being asked and of course we've seen those images of brave Afghan women taking to the streets and facing the barrel of a gun of a Taliban and saying, well, I've got nothing to lose.  So there are still a lot of questions being asked about whether the Taliban have reformed. Well, given that they appear not to have reformed, what does that mean for the work of your foundation? At present we've entered a humanitarian phase within the foundation. So we managed to evacuate over 100 people and take some to the American University of Iraq. So they're in Soleimaniya in Iraqi Kurdistan at present. And we've taken some civil society judges, journalists, and students to Albania. And the Albanian government, the Albanian Prime Minister has been incredibly generous. We took these people, Michael, to a country without passports, without any form of identification, simply based on my words that these are women and girls who have been part of civil society, who are judges, who are journalists, who are students. And they took my word and they took these people in. And since then they've taken a thousand more Afghans and the Albanian Prime Minister has said that they're open to taking 4,000 Afghans into the country. They are Europe's poorest nation. And the Prime Minister said in multiple interviews and in conversations with me that we were Afghans once too. And we were looking to the international community to assist us when our region, our country was in the darkest days during the crisis in the Balkans. And we were Afghans once too. We wanted assistance and therefore we are willing to help those. So at this present time, the foundation has gone into a humanitarian phase. But what we're hoping to do is to continue to work on education. We've extended and opened up our scholarship to Oxford University. So my foundation has partnership with Oxford University. We had initially only negotiated one scholarship, postgraduate scholarship for one Afghan woman. This was before the fall. We've now opened that up to four, up to four students. And Oxford University is open to that being expanded even further. We've got another scholarship at Georgetown University in Doha. We're working with the University of Texas at the moment. I'm hoping that Australian universities will be able to be generous too. And we can have some kind of partnership with Australian universities as well. So we are still working, but we're taking Afghan girls and students who have been deprived in Afghanistan from continuing their education and being able to form those partnerships outside the country. Alright, let me ask you some questions about journalism, if I may. You were saying earlier that Australian journalists have an appetite for work.  Well, I think it's what you said earlier. The fact that we are tenacious, we're persistent. We don't take no for an answer. I know how competitive the Australian media landscape is and it's shrinking. So even at the time, I had to find my point of difference within that Australian newsroom and work in a tough newsroom. You either sink or swim in those newsrooms and they teach you how to become excellent writers. They teach you how to continue to push to get the best out of a story. As you say, we know how to laugh at ourselves in some of the toughest times, being in some of those internally displaced camps in northern Iraq where I was being told by local population there that there's a massacre. Only one person has survived seeing tens of thousands of people and it curds people from the Yazidi community arriving in those camps and being able to have a moment at the end of the day and just be able to have that kind of ride dark Australian humour and be able to laugh at ourselves and the situation that was unfolding because actually what else can you do other than tell the story? But I think the point about the work, I think, is really important. We don't clock in and we don't clock out. We work and we become invested in a story and we continue to follow that story no matter where we are and what we're doing and what newsroom we're in. I see that here in the BBC newsroom. Some of our best and most talented reporters and producers are Australian. The newsroom is made up of young Australian producers who start in Australia, they come and cut their teeth here and then they return to Australia. We've seen Australian journalism thrive across the globe whether that's Jonathan Swan in the United States who's done some incredible interviewing with Donald Trump and various others. Here in the UK we've seen Australian journalists thrive and so we take what we're taught there and we bring that here and I'm often asked that question, what is it about you Australian journalists? Why is it that you do so well in our newsrooms? And they know the answer to that actually. It's because we're armed with those skills that we learn in Australia and we bring that here and you see how different our work ethic is and our ability to chase a story and our ability to personalise those stories for audiences. There is a different type of style that we adopt and you see that in newsrooms across the globe. One area where the Australian media doesn't have the depth though is international journalism and you're working for one of the great global media institutions that is an incredibly important part of reporting the world news and an incredible part of Britain's soft power. Things are more limited in Australia and foreign correspondents are expensive and very few media organisations can afford them anymore. Do you have any thoughts about how Australian news covers the world? How we could do it better? How important it is for us as a country? Our resources are more limited but as someone who's been an Australian reporting abroad but now also reporting for a global media institution do you have any thoughts on how Australian media could do this kind of journalism better? Well, I learnt how to become a video journalist in Australia 15 years ago. Dateline and SBS were dealing with those limited resources by sort of equipping a single journalist with all the skills that we're now seeing these big newsrooms talk about. As a young reporter you need to learn how to use a camera you need to learn how to cut a piece you need to learn how to produce it you need to have an excellent contacts book. These are the skills that I was taught 15 years ago in an Australian newsroom. That is why today when I travel anywhere on the planet I can open my contacts book and I can have tea and have meetings with officials and civil society and dissidents anywhere in the world. I can go to any country in the world Michael and I have a contact there. If I'm passing through whether it's transit or whether it's forestry or whether it's on holiday I make time for my journalism and these are the skills that I've been taught in Australia but I think Australia needs to understand it's important place in the world and increasingly it is becoming more and more important. You saw that through the security packs the August security pack that was signed between Australia the United States and the UK just a few weeks ago. We see the importance of the Indo-Pacific now and China's role in all of that and great power competition and the focus now on the Quad say and the Indo-Pacific in general and China's position, Australia's position in all of that so more than ever Australian journalism is crucial and one of the first things that China did before they pushed out the BBC's journalist from Beijing was to push out Australian journalists from the country because they know how incredible Australian journalists are and how hard they work to get to the heart of the story and so Australian journalists were booted out of China because we look to the Australian journalism and journalists in the country I still trawl through all of the papers in Australia to find some of the best stories and some of the best storytelling that we've got out there and the perspective on the world and the perspective on how they tell the sort of story of the globe to Australian audiences but also how they view the world is incredibly important so increasingly Australia's position in the global community and in the international community is becoming important and Australian journalism therefore needs to be incredibly important within that story. You're quite right that China is one of the biggest stories in the world that it's one of the hardest stories to report because as you say the Chinese government has systematically turfed out pretty much all Western journalists there are still a few there but very few. You've had some experiences you say in reporting from countries that are very difficult to travel in where it's hard to get to the story. What are your thoughts on how the world's media can report the China story given that so much of what happens in the world in the next decades will emanate from China but they don't want the world's eyes on them they don't want scrutiny from independent minded people who are seeking the truth they want people who toe the party line so how can you rather tell the story about what's happening in China when we don't have Western journalists on the ground in China? I think sometimes we fail to understand the complexities of China we assume that the Chinese Communist Party is the entire nation of China and there are some incredible journalists who are working within China who are trying to make their voices and their stories heard and it's our job as journalists and we've done that before as Australian journalists in places like Zimbabwe for example when that became closed off as a nation we handed small handycams mobile phones to local journalists and we worked with them to tell the story of their country and I've done that in other parts of the world and I believe we can do that with a network within China because there are people who are frustrated with the system in China who do want to speak up about the situation in the country whether it's Uighurs or whether it's the rights of workers or whether it's the treatment of people and human rights in general so I think it's incredibly important as a journalist to have that network to have that contacts book and it's always saved me no matter where I've been I've been able to open up this lifetime and career worth of contacts and be able to draw on people and I make phone calls I don't sort of just read things I build these networks for people, I ask questions I never know more than the local journalists on the ground and I think that is really important that we build these networks within the country of journalists, activists, dissidents who are trying to tell the story of their country to the outside world and I think that will help shape and inform and help us understand what's going on in the country but also then the bigger geopolitical issues around the country because the story of Uighurs again Australia has told that story for well over a decade Dateline was telling stories of the Uighur community in Australia for many many years before it became a global talking point because of the detention facilities within Xinjiang so we have been leaders in this sort of storytelling on China because of course it is in Australia's backyard that we need to continue to push to tell those stories Yalda I want to put a question to you from an audience member Olivia Peary Griffiths who is the Executive Director of the Alliance for Journalists Freedom and the question comes to this this issue of telling the truth and getting at the truth and Olivia asks how do we best distinguish journalism from the rest of the information landscape to rebuild trust when you even look at a story like China or what's happening in a place like Afghanistan there is so much disinformation there is so much fake news out there I mean if you look at and troll social media there was material being used from the war in Yemen in 2018 and being described as the conflict in Afghanistan and it was being retweeted thousands and thousands of times and so verifying the material making sure that it's accurate and truthful it's not about being first it's not about being the first to put out that tweet or the first to have that bit of breaking news it's about being accurate and I think we do that sort of almost religiously here at the BBC no video that I put out has been put out without being verified by a team of BBC producers who have spoken to multiple sources on the ground and elsewhere where we continue to sort of check these videos to make sure that they're accurate we don't just tweet or retweet something and that's why it's so important that in times of crisis people turn to journalists and journalism and you saw that I mean with that interview with Sahel Shaheen people could have easily gone to the sort of web and social media and use those platforms to get their information but actually they were turning to credible journalists across the globe there was an appetite millions of people were clicking on the BBC website to get a better understanding of what was happening in the country and we were having to then peddle really quickly and fast to provide that for our audience but not so fast that we were getting it wrong not so fast that we were not getting the transparency and not getting to the truth of something and that is ultimately what we are skilled to do and what we are trained to do and that's why we have that credibility so while there are people out there that might have hundreds of thousands or millions of followers that doesn't mean that what they're saying and putting out there is necessarily accurate and the truth we also got a number of questions about how COVID has affected your ability and the BBC's ability to tell the world news when there's this real and present threat to reporters who are travelling how have you guys adjusted are you now getting back on to the road what are the implications from the pandemic for your work so I never stopped working or coming into the studio even in the harshest of lockdowns here I wasn't getting the tube I was walking each morning to work but I was getting myself to which was taking me about an hour and a half so it wasn't a short walk but I was coming into the studio every day as were limited teams but I think what the pandemic and I did by the way cover the US election I went and spent almost a month in Midwest in Wisconsin and then I went to Delaware Pennsylvania and I was in Washington when all of those announcements when we announced that Biden had won I was in Delaware at the time so I have been on the road a little bit as have my colleagues and I've done multiple PCR tests it's been tough and difficult but I think what some of the benefits of the pandemic on journalism has been the sort of local staff that we've had in various different bureaus across the globe have had to step up and we've suddenly seen journalists tell stories about their own community people who were there as our support networks whether we were being parachuted into a place or whether we were stationed or based in a bureau suddenly with all of those journalists gone or coming back home those local reporters and producers were having to step up for us and so I was seeing faces that I hadn't seen before who had worked for many many years in our bureaus whether it was in Nigeria or in Indonesia or you know in Iraq we were seeing these people suddenly have to step up and tell their stories and they did it well and that I think has really changed that we've been able to get these people to talk about their own communities to go out into their communities to draw on their own contacts and families to tell the stories and that changed the nature in which we were able to tell the story of the pandemic and the impact on the global community certainly in India some of the worst times in India we had these extraordinary Indian journalists who were working in our bureaus as producers and when our teams were returning because the COVID situation was so bad in the country the Indian journalists were able to tell their story in such an effective personal way that was both heartbreaking and effective let me ask you about COVID as the subject of the news and let me ask you about the way that different countries have reacted or have dealt with the pandemic let me ask you about Australia actually I mean I think there is a sense in which the virus flattered Australia last year but it doesn't flatter us quite so much this year last year there was a lot of international news to the effect that Australia has managed this so well they've dodged the large fatalities that countries certainly such as the United Kingdom have had they've had highly professional medical professional smart decisions they closed the international border now most of the international coverage is a little bit different now it's there seems to be a lot of confusion a lot of people saying that Australia's locked itself in fortress Australia questions as to why the international border is still closed all that time later what's your feeling as an Australian about how Australia has managed the pandemic and how have you seen international coverage of Australia's COVID response changing it's been really interesting I think Michael just as an Australian trying to get home in the last two years has obviously been difficult and frustrating that we haven't been able to do that as Australian citizens no matter where I am in the world I visit an Australian embassy or consulate just to say hello because it makes me feel like I'm closer to home and if I'm in a tricky situation I do call the Australians to let them know that I'm in country and to inform them in case anything does go pay shape so I have my connection with Australia even though I'm now a British passport holder as well so I am Australian and I turn to Australia when I'm looking for help or trying to get home so it has been incredibly frustrating for me as an Australian but I know for tens of thousands of other Australians who have been trying to get home in difficult times trying to get to family and haven't been able to do so someone said to me that it's been interesting watching the pandemic unfold across the globe and what I found interesting about what they said was that each country has almost acted true to character and I asked them what they meant by this and they said well you know the western world at the beginning in the first initial stages of the pandemic things were quite shambolic and we couldn't quite sort out the test and trace and we couldn't quite figure out you know how to do the lockdowns and people were confused China managed to do it quite well they clamped down and they shut everything down and they had these lockdowns and the population sort of just followed the rules and they were sort of testing how they should open things up and they created COVID facilities where people could be tested and the South Koreans had their test and trace sorted really quickly but when the vaccine roll out sort of all the work towards the vaccine happened it was western scientists working really hard in western capitals across the globe and the science community came together to be able to create these vaccines for the global community so you know it was our science whether it was AstraZeneca or the Pfizer that was seen to be the best and it was rolled out in that way and then they talked to me about the sort of Israel's position and being able to really quick in vaccinating their entire population but then criticism because they weren't assisting the Palestinians so there was that unfolding and then here in the UK were really good at sort of being working really hard to get everyone vaccinated really quickly even though the Europeans and the European Union had all their red tape and they were right to begin with and then that kicked off and was fine in Australia's case what I found interesting about what this person talked about Australia's character as a nation is that it banded together it said okay we're going to make sure that we deal with this pandemic as a community and people were wearing masks before the federal government sort of enforced it and communities were coming together to ensure that their neighbours were safe and that they were at a distance and following the rules I think what then happened was this sort of criticism that Australia faces that it can sometimes just shut itself down and it's quite happy to shut itself off from the rest of the world and I don't want to use the word parochial because I don't think that's true Australians are well travelled and they have sort of immigration is right in the country and multiculturalism is something that's celebrated in the country but they did shut down as a nation and I was asked why is this sort of something that's part of the Australian characteristic as well and I suppose again it goes back to the point of whether Australia as a nation act true to its character that it came together as a community but then it also shut itself down from the rest of the world I don't know but what I do know is while there has been frustration the death toll compared to the rest of the world has been quite low and even hearing that you know 1400 people or several thousand people may have died in Australia gives me heartache and that's because as a nation when one Australian citizen or one Australian dies anywhere in the world it's difficult for the Australian nation to tolerate and so when you see that over 100,000 people died in another part of the world or the pandemic means that 40,000 people are infected on a daily basis I often talk about the fact that that's just not something that's tolerated in Australia we just wouldn't tolerate 10,000 people dying it just wouldn't be tolerated as a nation and so I think it's been a difficult juggling act for Australia as a country it's been frustrating for us as Australians to be locked down but I also think it is true to our character that we don't think it's sort of acceptable that one Australian should die My last question Yalda as a member of the Australian Diaspora you've been locked out of Fortress Australia for the last little while but you're obviously a proud Australian you're checking in with Australian embassies and high commissions around the world which is something I don't always do you've got an Australian sense of humour what would it take to get you back to Australia working for an Australian media organisation telling the world's stories to Australians? You know Australia is home and it goes back to your point about Australia media landscape being open to telling the sort of story of the world to Australians and for me my passion is international journalism I love going to places that aren't making headlines or are behind the headlines and telling those stories to the world and at present the BBC has given me that platform and allows me to tell those stories and you know it's not about sort of the stories that have the highest ratings or are at the forefront of our minds I can say let's go to Eritrea what's going on in Eritrea and they say okay let's go and tell the story of Eritrea and you know that is the kind of journalism that I'm interested in and I know that that is something that many Australian journalists are passionate about so if there is room for that for me in Australia I would love to come home seeing in the meantime I must say it's a treat to be able to turn on to the BBC and to see the international coverage of the world and to hear those stories being told by you in an Australian accent so thank you very much for making time to speak with us thank you for your remarks, thanks for the conversation congratulations on your work with your foundation that's very important and thank you also for being such a great advertisement for Australian journalism around the world thank you very much Yalda Hakim thank you so much Michael for having me


We have all 12 year old boys and girls. Today is the Christmas crusade for children. I think we're going to be able to find some good stuff here today. So officers, they come in contact with families that are in need. We're off to the men's department to try to find some clothes for Peyton. Just what this program is about is we try to give them a Christmas that they might not be able to have. That's nice. They're coming from families that are having hard times right now. Oh, here's some socks. These kids need things that are necessities that I think a lot of us might take for granted. We want some sweatpants. You know, it's basic survival. Today we're shopping for about 700 kids. Okay, here we go. This event started in 1983 from about five or six Denver cops and it's blossom. We found the WWE wrestling belt. Show the community that we are people and we do care. That's why we do this. We do it because we really care about the families. We care about the community and Merry Christmas. We really want these kids to have the best Christmas that we can provide for them and just show them that we're here.


We have delayed the start of our schedule program to bring you a bulletin from CBS news Two helicopters carrying the United Nations ceasefire team left K song shortly before nine o'clock Sunday morning, Korean time Communist officers are already in K song to participate in the preliminary ceasefire talks. This bulletin has come to you from CBS news We now resume our schedule program Most Saturdays at this time we spent an exciting half hour of adventure in action with America's public hero number one the hop along Cassidy Well, even two fisted cowboys take summer vacations when they can and hoppy is no exception Hop along and topper will be back with us riding the CBS air trails again 11 weeks from tonight September 22 Get this and get it straight Crime is a suckers road and those who travel it wind up in the gut of the prison of the grave There's no other end, but they never learn From the pen of Raymond Chandler outstanding author of crime fiction comes his most famous character in the adventures of Philip Marlowe Now with Gerald Moore starred as Philip Marlowe we bring you tonight's exciting story a seaside sabbatical Wire in my hand said it all need your help urgent meet me at 8 30 tonight ships galley cafe Long Beach signed Dale Higgins The time and the place were known factors the need for help the urgency and most of all Dale Higgins were unknown And my hazy recollection of algebra told me that three unknowns are mathematically impossible to find Call it a challenge call it money call it a chance for a short dinner call it anything you're like But 815 found me pulling into a parking lot on Ocean Boulevard not far from the amusement pier Hi, you're right. How's it going? Oh great. Thanks. What brings you to the capital of Iowa corn My aim's getting bad red. I thought I come down to the pike and try for my limited a shooting gallery. She really yeah Greatest practice in the world Is it still 35 cents and no questions asked all the part the car. Yeah, that's it Okay, get keep it. Oh, thanks. Hey, I'm mine if I recommend the quick quack. How's that again? Used to be the dead duck best shooting gallery in the pike from Idaho. Oh that quick quack.  Yeah, my sentiments exactly see you red you bet mr. Marlowe Red's a nice kid. His name was a natural. He was blonde I've bobbed along Ocean Boulevard in a direction that instinct and a blaring blue neon sign indicated would lead me on cost of the ship's galley The night was muggy and close You wore it like an extra coat And the ocean breeze I'd anticipated it retired in favor of alternate waves of fog that rolled in and Golfed you for a moment. There's suddenly rolled out again. I Was very nearly on time for my 830 appointment with Dale Higgins as I turned blue beneath the ship's galley neon and stepped inside to be Graded by tight little groups of faces that opened and closed to admit food drink and talk all in to go The door behind me closed on two thoughts My dreams of a short dinner were blasted and the ship's galley emerges the last place in the world for anyone in need of urgent help To discuss his problems, but then I didn't know Dale Higgins Are you Philip Marlowe by any chance? That's right.  Oh, how are you Higgins? Do we talk here? Probably not very well. I'll walk along the beach. Oh fine Say Higgins, did you ever wonder why people pack into a hot little rooms on a night like this? Oh, you mean the ship's galley? Yeah Philosophy is not my business Marlowe. What is well?  Well your wire set urgent. That's good enough for openness. Yes Well, the truth is I was a little quick sending that wire No, it's pretty upset about a situation at the time of things have resolved themselves now I won't require any help. Oh Well, you want to know I expect to pay you of course the trip down and your customary fee It'll be 25 a day in expenses seven cents a mile for 23 miles and oh, yeah Yeah, 35 cents for parking my car seven times 23 $1.61 a 35 dollar 96 26 96 all together is Cash all right Always has been Marlowe I am sorry about this. I didn't set out to bring you on a wild goose chase Yes, looks like I have got the right amount. Thanks. Don't worry about it Higgins. Anybody can change his mind. Yes I guess that's right. Well Thanks for your trouble not at all Yeah, well I Turned in the direction of a voice but the fog is a cute way of diffusing sound as well as sight And I realized I wasn't closing in on anything that the fog was circling me and I was circling it So I stopped and waited and listened and heard nothing but the sound of the sea and the faint wheezing of the pike caliopee Then suddenly it hit me Somewhere along the fog swept beach a girl had called my name And nobody knew I was in Long Beach except right at the parking lot and Dale Higgins Yeah, the choice was obvious Did you find Joe came mr. Marlowe? Yeah. Yeah, red. She did you tell him where I was why sure I told her you and me always did our shooting at the quick quack good boy now. Tell me who she is Who she is yeah? You mean you don't know her mr. Marlowe. That's the general idea red. Well. Well, I guess she's my age. I know who is she?  Marlowe? No red not now. I think I left something back at the quick quack Everything that was young and pretty along the pike was hanging out of a sailor's arm Around gene on those quick quack the nearest thing the youth and beauty with a neatly lying 22s poised across the counter Are you like mr. No, no, thanks just lucky not by yeah, see I just lost my girl Don't blow your brains out here these guns is for shooting ducks. I see what you mean We said we'd meet here if we got separated. Have you seen him by any chance seven eight feet tall glandular case Three stalls down build the tooth thing. Thanks so much still just looking not buying still just look Try it from a distance. It looks even better go on I spotted her at least I'd spotted a frightened phone of a thing who caught my eyes if we were the only two on the pike And there was something about her that made me wish we were I Followed her away from the crowded amusement section up the ramp toward Ocean Boulevard Suddenly she broke into a run dotted into an alleyway. I wasn't far behind me No, we saw you did they Follow me like who he might And there may be others. I don't know. I don't know that makes two of us now. Wait a minute. Let's talk I saw you meet him. I thought it was you at the parking lot. I saw you meet him the ship's galley Something like you lost in a mob.  You know if you're with them.  I'm with you. Don't come in any near all right. All right I can't walk out of here with you. He's around somewhere. I know he is Mr. Marlowe, you'll help me. You'll have to there isn't anyone else course. I will of course I will then look as soon as you can get your car Don't let Val see you now Val. You know Val. Listen in your car. Meet me at 7th and Anaheim I'll get there. I'll have to and then we can talk wait a minute hold it and Anaheim. Mr. Marlowe I'm Dale Higgins It was a steady in contrast all the way The din and kaleidoscope of rainbow pier against the lonely sound of a fog horn The gray feel of fog and the dank gray black of the warehouse district at 7th and Anaheim an urgent wire sign Dale Higgins Dale Higgins and a guy who called himself Higgins husband lover what? Well, here we go again Marlowe I parked the car and waited the fog hugged the streetlight, but the sign was intermittently visible I had the right place I don't know how long it was before I heard the footsteps But it was long enough for me to stretch my legs out along the car seat lean my head back against the door and feel the Damp touch of fog sweep against my face from an open window I remember starting to turn my head toward the direction of the steps and thinking that Dale had made it in good time In just a moment we will return to the second act of Philip Marlowe, but first Just as systematic exercise builds a strong body So does systematic saving build a strong future Save systematically for your future and for your country's future with the United States defense bonds And now with our star Gerald Moore the second act of Philip Marlowe and tonight's story a seaside sabbatical I could almost hear the chain pulleys clanking the first time I opened my eyes And it took another game try before the fuzz faded away and the room slowed down to a lambeth walk Off somewhere the faint sound of breakers And I did the ceiling walls in one corner of an expensively furnished room before I sent it on the fuzzy indeterminate face at my bedside a kind face motherly and pleasant It talked. I'm Mrs. Higgins. Oh, oh, no. Yes. Yes, I am Everybody in Long Beach named Higgins. You don't really feel a bit. Well, do you know not really? We're awfully. Sorry, Mr. Marlowe I know when Dale realizes what she's done. She'll be sorry too. Yeah, I spoke Dale bean me What with a peer? She's often violent. I'm afraid Such a high-strung girl gives way so easily, you know, yeah imagines all sorts of things and then well just gives way Yeah, but I won't worry you with that Dale's my problem. I I won't worry you with anything. Mr. Marlowe. Just you get a nice rest. I'm a cinch We'll pay whatever damages there are of course, but I won't hear of you leaving now until you're much better Oh Hey Mother of the Higgins clan and locked the door and walked away My head felt big and woozy and rammed down into my neck. I Was not in the pink Mother Higgins had ordered a nice rest and it looked like I'd need it I don't like strange rooms and locked doors and high-strung girls would give way I'm still trying to get out of bed when another dog clicks slowly open on the other side of the room My little frightened fawn was back And my head hurt That's how I knew you were here Mr. Marlowe, did they hurt you? They sure did It wouldn't do you know if they found me talking to you. I feel better now that you're here. I wish I did What happened to you? Do you know I have a rough idea? Say honey, how much do you weigh? That's not important listen, I can't stay long you know a romance with you would be rough Please mr.  All right. All right. I settled down. They are and I don't know why Maybe if I knew why I'd understand. Yeah, but listen. I I didn't even know Val in Val Nickles a friend of Marie's She sent him to the boat to meet me Ever since then I just know they are gonna kill me there. Listen to me I don't know Val as matter of fact until you told me I thought his name was Higgins and I don't know Marie What makes you think they're gonna kill you?  Don't try to confuse me. You're all I had. All right, honey, but tell me isn't Marie your mother? My stepmother Daddy's dead When I got off the Orange Coast the other night whenever it was there was Val the Orange Coast That's how I came back Mr. Marlowe, you you're not trying to understand if you won't help me that Don't let I hope that you're not bothering mr. Marlowe. No, no, I'm not He asked me to come in He likes me of course he does dear We all do no Feeling better mr. Marlowe the worst way. I'm sorry come Dale. Let's let mr. Marlowe rest You could use a little rest yourself my dear. No, he wants me to stay. I'm not bothering you're not bothering at all Honey, but maybe it would be better if you come back a little later. Yes. Yes, of course it would dear now come along now I Can come back though mr. Marlowe You promise sure if you promise. I know you'll keep it Never mind Val. I came in alone.   Oh, yes, yes Well, we had no idea one of her spells was coming on We left her for a short time yesterday Switchboard has its instructions, of course, and they reported it to mrs. Higgins when you return So we we thought it best if I met you and call me up. It's not in your line Marlowe. You're right I'm gonna keep it that way so mrs. Higgins realizes that she's going to have to do something about Dale Institution perhaps some long range treatment at any rate Dale was in no condition to be running around last night playing mysteries Taking up your time whoever hit me in the head last night was in pretty good condition Well, if I had gotten there two minutes sooner, I could have spared you all that you were following her No, no, no, I was coming back from my boat. I had gone down to the harbor after I left you No, it's on the way back. I just happened to see Dale and knowing the state. She was in I followed her of course I see she doesn't know she hit me does she I Don't believe that she has the slightest idea what happened Things started swimming again Val Nichols became part of the draperies. I Was trying to think but it hurt everything hurt The chain pulleys were lowering my eyelids again. That was all for a while Next time I tried I was more successful Sunlight was streaming in the room the clock on the night table visible for the first time said it was almost noon So I got up It was still pretty fuzzy on the edges, but I found my clothes hung neatly in the closet Managed to get them on in the right order and made it to the door that had been locked before but it wasn't this time Mr. Marlowe, you shouldn't be up and I'm always flying in the face of great odds. Mrs. Higgins bill's character So you should stay in bed a while really I'm fine. Thanks, but you're not leaving I won't think of it. You'll lunch with us at least no no really I've got to go, but I'd like to see Dale first I sort of promised her I wouldn't she's sleeping. Mr. Marlowe. We gave her a sedative doctors orders, of course She's had such a trying time. I wouldn't want to disturb him Maybe I can call later that would be so thoughtful of you. I know she'll be disappointed at not seeing you But I oh Val, I'm talking about so soon Marlowe. Yeah, she's sleeping. Isn't she Val the sedative and all?  I don't don't fret about her Well, I'll take you to your car Marlowe. Oh Oh, yes Well, Mrs. Higgins, it's been downright dreadful, and I know it mr. Marlowe If I can do anything to right this terrible wrong, please let me know. I love I can think of anything I'll let you know. Goodbye, Mrs. Higgins. Tell Dale goodbye for me. Would you? Oh, yeah? Yes, of course. I will Looks like another lovely day, doesn't it I Followed Val Nichols lead to an elevator and for the first time discovered that I was in an apartment hotel on a different stretch of Ocean Boulevard and the one I'd grown below the night before Val filled in a few last details as he walked me to my car in the underground garage Seems he driven Dale and me to the apartment from 7th and Anaheim in my car and set a lackey back for his It fit We shook hands and that hurt my head too. I drove off Somewhere in the harbor district the need for coffee and a few lungful of ocean air forced my hand I Parked the car and found both in a ship-shaped spot with a clear view of the docks The first cup cleared my head And the second one down near cleared the colors Hey, watch it. I am. Oh, I'm sorry. That's okay It'll wipe up. How about you get me on you? No, I don't think so You know anything about ship schedules like what like that first one out there at anchor The Orange Coast. Yeah Well, it seems to me she landed three or four nights ago. I don't know how long she'll be tied up She's a fruit boat though and their office is just a block from here. No more unlikely their books solid But if you want to check Mr. Marlowe there was a passenger Higgins on the Orange Coast when the dock Tuesday Miss Higgins it was miss Dale Higgins according to our records any record of where she boarded the boat. Let's see now. Oh Yes at macapa macapa Brazil macapa Brazil Was she driving alone by any chance? I really don't know there's nothing here to any other Higgins as a board No, how about a passenger named nickels any chance of that? No no nickels either. Okay. Thanks. Thanks very much It was my turn to send a wire only it was a cable this time It was gonna be a while between answers so I checked into a nice clean inconspicuous hotel Had some food and a half bottle of aspirin and placed two phone calls Dale Higgins was still resting comfortably according to a stepmother But Muff Benjamin was still willing to do anything for a buck.  Yeah, I know it happens all the time now look muff I gotta know things quick. Well, why yeah for money Who and what all right? I get this the name is Higgins man old enough to have an 18-year-old daughter I don't know his first name. He's dead. I think but the daughter's name is dead. You got that and the wife that survived And is called Marie having apartment on Ocean Boulevard the shore. I think it is. I got it Okay, now a guy named Val Nichols check on him, too. If Higgins is dead find out about a will I'm ahead of you. Good. Get back as soon as you can. Huh? You double a doe. I'll double the speed. You're double Hello Speaking oh good. Give it to me slow, huh? Did you say order of the Holy Cross? That's right. Oh, not yet. Anyway, thanks So you see father if you could help me contact the convent in Brazil I could find out how long Dale was a student there that might shed some light on the situation, huh? I see I'm not schooled in your ways, mr. Marlowe Still we're both seekers after truth, aren't we? In this case a very specific truth. That's right father. I want to help of course Your cable said this was a sisters of the Holy Cross convent. Yes If there were any way we could call down there, you see father time is pretty important If it's possible, we shall call my son Meanwhile our prayers are with miss Higgins come, mr. Marlowe My prayers were with the phone company, too and with muff and of course there Because if her version of things were true, she was in real trouble Until I knew what it was for It was very little I could do for her What's the information from the sisters helpful mr. Marlowe? Well, they were very cooperative father Dale's been a student there for almost seven years winter and summer a stepmother visited her every day But they all never left the convent until two weeks ago Maybe it all fits huh? I'll bless her my son. Thank you father. Thank the sisters of the Holy Cross My Benjamin was waiting at my hotel when I got back Was another study in contrasts so far? I dealt with a priest an informer and a sister superior and together we were all coming close to an answer His name was Dale Higgins to the dolls father died seven years ago loaded Yeah, left the second wife Maria good income, but the big load went to the kid. All right What'd you get on Val Nichols? Oh, he's a bad one. Yeah, specialty is knocking down rich widows Currently fraternizing with this Murray Higgins thing bless you muff. Huh?  Marlowe really is Dale still sleeping. Why yeah, I think I'll look in on her Huh, no, I mean, I'd rather you did where is she mrs. Higgins? Oh, you have no I wonder if she liked it at the convent what seven years a long time to be away from home A lot of things can happen in seven years, you know mrs. Higgins You can even end up legally dead why I I'm sure I don't have any idea Dad must have thought a lot of her. I'll bet she was pretty close to him too. She was they Mr. Marlowe, what are you do you tell me mrs. Higgins? There's nothing to tell you seems to think there is which room is hers She she isn't here. I mr. Marlowe. Don't ask any more. Oh, she's with Val, huh on his boat I didn't want it this way. I thought if she could have been declared legally dead Oh, I'd have taken care of her. I mean kept her there in the convent. No one knew she was there Val had to have a really dead is that expensive mrs. Higgins help her mr. Marlowe. He'll do it this time. He'll kill her I know believe me. I don't want how long have they been gone Not long half an hour maybe but no longer. I'll go with you Marie really cracked on the way to the harbor It was going to be a fishing accident in the channel and Val would get away with it too unless we found something That could outpower as 30 footer. It was called the Queen Marie one guest who had given it to him I found the boat. I needed all right, but the skipper seemed reluctant to go for it wildest thing I tell you it's a matter of life and death the coast guard can't go on every look a month ago We needed you off Balboa when I motor conked out in your cane, but we've received no distress call from the Queen Marie What do you think this is? I'm giving you please don't waste time talking all right come on How about it? Okay, but if this isn't on the level you're in some trouble Marlowe By the time we'd clear the harbor I knew Val didn't have a chance every boat in the area had been alerted I didn't know about Dale though. I just hope the sedative Val had given her was merciful The coast guard took care of Val once we came alongside the Queen Marie And I took care of Dale She was in the galley tied securely still dopey, but she came around after a while Mr. Marlowe you take it easy baby. You're okay It was night now The lights that stretched out along the shore looked friendly and warm I friendly and warm I Wonder when people are going to realize that the only happiness there is in the world Is what they can give each other? happiness that is Not a stab in the back But you know there's one thing about me Yeah, I have to admit it I'm an optimistic fella the adventures of Philip Marlowe bringing you Raymond Chandler's most famous character star Gerald Moore are produced and directed by Norman McDonald and written for radio by Kathleen height Features in the cast were Jean Bates, John Daner, Irene Tedrow, and Lee Malar with Harry Bartel, Barney Phillips, Luke Ruegman, Donna Hainer, and Stan Waxman Gerald Moore may soon be seen in the Santana production, Sirocco The special music is composed by Pierre Garagank and conducted by Wilbur Hatch Be sure to listen again next week at the same time when Philip Marlowe says This time an old lady got taken for a new kind of ride by a new kind of chauffeur And I got involved up to a gun in my ribs all because I decided to spend a quiet day at home Don't miss broadways my beat featuring Detective Danny Clovers the cop who knows every character every star every crook Frequenting the great white way. It's tomorrow night at the stars address Now stay tuned for gangbusters which follows immediately over most of these same CBS stations This is Roy Rowan speaking This is CBS here Horace Hyde every Sunday night the Columbia broadcasting system


Welcome everyone to the second episode of eBay Live the podcast and today is going to be more my musings of just where the business where the platform is going, how I'm feeling about things, my mindset towards these things and just what sort of things I'm going to be doing going forwards when I'm thinking of trying to do to improve my my mental state, the profitability of my business and also just general all-round improvements. There's so many things and avenues to take or try and it's easy to get lost in amongst the forest of views by people and yourself easily easily lost in this this crazy world of reselling. I mean just how I feel about the business for myself, my business, I have to keep telling myself that it is a marathon. It's for me it's been a long journey of research, trial, error, mistakes and trying to correct those and improve that machine that I call my business in order to be a fully functioning self-supportive income for the family and it's been a difficult road I mean I've made some really wrong choices I've made some really right choices and then it's a case of staying on top of those right choices before eBay pulled the rug from under you and they change it constantly and what worked for you last week may not work now and that can be very frustrating especially if he's taking you more than a week to actually figure out what that problem is. It's easy to get lost in amongst the the white noise of other youtubers and no offense to any of them they all have great things to input into the mix but it's easy as an individual to get lost in amongst that white noise and not progress forwards constructively and to be able to see the wood for the trees you know it's it's difficult and I'm sure I'm not alone I mean there are many of us out there that we're all learning at different levels but on the same track of where we want to be it's how can I say it's there's so much frustration that we aim at other people or at the platform or inwardly towards ourselves and sometimes we just need to step back and it's not that simple I know but to be able to step back and then detach ourselves from all the static of the business the platform the the ideas and just focus on the key elements of the business it's easy to how can I say it is very it's like an engine you know if you don't put enough oil in it it's gonna seize up and I think that's the the analogy I'm gonna use there for that part is that white noise becomes the lessening of the oil within the engine and before you know it your your your business is slowing it's grinding to a halt and it may not be as simple as you've done something wrong it could whatever that thing is in it may be more than one thing that's grinding your business down in its momentum forwards it's it's frustrating you know I mean let's I mean just the the amount of things that's impact your business you've got the platform and just by that alone you I don't just mean the old was it's embarrassing we're sorry it's timed out we can't find the information this is embarrassing blah blah all those glitchy things on the platform we're not talking the the inability for the search algorithm that they implement to find our products properly the learning curves of the AI as it's learning the platforms new new way of indexing we're not talking those type of things individually but just as a whole they all impact the constructive productivity of your business and your way forward and your ability to be able to see that path in front of you and know which decisive move can put you back on track and it may not be platform it could be to do with your sourcing or it could be with your time management or it could be your just your your physical or mental health state that has a knock-on effect on to the business but being able to find those points is half the battle and then from there you start to try and implement things you try things and so many of us out there are doing just that we're trying out these new ideas these new fixes I mean we can call them hacks we can call them cheats they're not they're just ways to find the quickest results to get us back on track without having to completely strip our businesses down to the bare bones and begin again and that's not something any one of us wants to do and I don't think that's ever really a case of that's what you must do but the fixes as it were that we come up with just may not be an overnight resolution but it's a case of hoping that the resolution of getting to that end stage of that fix or that implementation that we put into the business reaches a financial and productive results before something else jumps into the works and slows the system down again it's a constant battle and I guess that maybe is what business is about and maybe not all of us realize this when we went into it and maybe not all of us can cope with it or find coping mechanisms within it as a business owner so many of us may have just came in come into this as a part-time side hustle it may have been implemented to take place of a full-time job and working for someone else which has its benefits but it also has its negatives but we all have to find our own journey our own resolution to the issues that come up along the way now they may be as simple as implementing a better price structure for your products or better images better titles cheaper and more sustainable sourcing methods or promoting in some manner shape or form we don't like the promoted listings we know but then that's another thing I mean there's so much talk around promoted listings and off-site ads at the moment and I've covered it so many times on my channel already and I'm sure there'll be many more to come because that is the the the company flag at the moment for eBay and it's more for us to manage the fact that okay yes promoted listings are becoming the most predominant money earner for eBay however you look at it and they're constantly taking from the pot and yes they will be it doesn't matter how much we complain and whether we use it or not if we don't use it depending on the categories you're in you may still stay afloat without them there are those that can't survive without them because of the categories they're in then becomes the next question who do you pivot to new categories you pivot to a less saturated market but with the fact that eBay has been running for so many years now I mean we're coming up to nearly nearly 30 years I don't think there's really any category within the marketplace that isn't saturated to some degree so there will always be that competitive edge that you have to either meet or exceed and you may well have to find that promoting level for you and that will have to be factored into your business plan and your your your your your costings and yes we don't like it but I think the only way to look at it as is there are only a few things that are guaranteed in life and one of them is death and one of them is taxes and you can look at it as part of a tax if you wish and if you want to play the game at the levels that you were at if you want to carry on forwards at those levels there are a few options open to you for a quicker fix and the quick returning fix is going to be promotion of some kind now you don't necessarily have to go down promoted listings you you don't necessarily have to use off-site ads campaigns from eBay that there are other ways to promote but then it's down to how much time and effort you're going to want to put into that promotion in order to regain the traction that you had prior to the the ramping up of these money grabs costings however you want to word it it's something you need to seriously step back sit down make a coffee whatever it is you need to have and really analyze your business and structure and work out are you going to rely on the remaining in-platform promotion to give you your return from what you're selling and if that's the case then you're going to have to work on a scaled-up version of what you're on now because there are so many out there that you can see already that they sell or they have tens of thousands of listings but the return revenue has greatly decreased without promotion it may well be that that is okay for you to not promote and if you can source more product to get that up then and that's great or source better you could be looking at a higher ASP instead but keeping your costings down now for our cousins in the US this is definitely a structure that can work better for you than say for someone in the UK I'm not saying that the the ability isn't there but the margin is greatly reduced for the UK seller for an example compared to a US seller the US society has an incredibly high throwaway mindset of items from their home or their their their belongings and the is that like that turnover that constant turnover creates a sourcing ability that is always going to be there for a lower cost and keeping that profit margin higher for you the UK is a slightly different financial margin animal we don't have that throwaway mentality and we all think that our products are worth something so if you were saying right let's get rid of all this stuff on a car boot for example which is a bit like your your markets then I mean from my experience you can find a few good bargains but you won't be able to rely on it as a sourcing method for a high profit 5x 10x sort of level it doesn't work that way that the individuals are more attached to their products and the value that they feel they're worth maybe that's down to bartering possibly but it is a little more difficult in my eye so you have to look at better sourcing methods there are those that will work in or what their businesses work on bulk buying stock and they're a lower price and that could be the more profitable way to source and sell in the UK I think unless you have a very specific category that you wish to work down and it's down to time as well putting into it's how much time you're going to be putting into that sourcing and once you've done your sourcing then it's down to getting it listed then it's out down to the quality of that listing what you're putting into that listing the the time and effort to absolutely optimise it all these factors play into the bigger time-sucking cost of what you're doing for your business and you got to find the right model for yourself it may work for some but not for all I use for example multiple different sourcing and selling avenues I don't stick to one I don't just go to wholesalers I don't just go to thrift stores or the equivalent in the UK I don't just do boot sales I don't just what's the word I'm looking for arbitrate from buying and selling say straight from eBay which there can be profits in there if you pick the right items I try to keep that very and I think you have to keep it varied especially in the marketplace and the the society that we're currently in there are just so many factors and again I may be just preaching to the converted but I feel if you're coming into this business you need to keep your eyes wide open to what you're walking into you know is when I first started selling on on this e-commerce world of platforms I had no idea what I was doing I mean yes I understood eBay you buy it you sell it you auction it buy it now etc etc yeah I got that I understood that the dynamics of the basics but as a business and all the intricate parts of that machine to make it work those I learned by trial and error and if any of these points can give tips to new sellers or even some sellers that have been running their business for a long time on the same model and have never changed it and are seeing reduced earnings maybe it's time for you to also just take a step and see where can you improve because I mean you may just want to have a steady turnover and you're happy with that or you may be looking to grow or improve and I think we should all be looking to improve the more you improve your business the more time you're going to have for the important things in life which is living you know I mean you don't do this just to pay the tax man although maybe some of us are doing at the moment especially in the current climate but you've got a kind of you've got to change your mindset I think in so many things as you've got to change your mindset to your business you've got to change your mindset to eBay I mean we can all sit there and go oh they're money grabbing they're taking our cash there they're making the profit margin so small we can't make anything maybe they are but that's the business that's their platform it's their platform to sell how that or to provide us with a service however they wish it doesn't we can rant and complain all we want that's not going to make any difference to the to the platform the platforms not interested in us saying oh we don't want you to do that well they're going to do it and they've done it and it is what it is so you can either work with it or you can leave that's kind of it so we have to change this mentality of it's eBay's fault well there is no fault this is a business this is what you've got to make it work now that may mean that you can't do your business through the eBay platform or at least not on the hundred percent scale that you may currently work at you may need to look at other platforms you may need to look at other business plans other outlets or you may need to reassess your profit margins what worked two years ago won't work anymore you know I mean you may be able to have lived on a 50% profit margin but now with the current marketplace you're only making 25 well okay if it's 25% it is 25% now you need to think where can I trim my costs down is there any way that I can trim my cost down that don't impact my business in a negative way is there anything that I can implement into my business to increase that profit margin it's easy to say look out look outside the box but I think in this case it's a case of looking outside of your monitor screen step away do some brainstorming think about what is available what is available for sourcing where is it available for sourcing if eBay are going to make it a pay-to-play platform as far as the quick fix get you back to the traffic levels you were getting you need to decide one do I want to go down the route of investing that profit into the business to increase the revenue to get me back to where I was that may take me higher than where I was or do I need to look at other avenues now those other avenues could be investment in a pay-per-click it could be investment in software to help you promote your products or it could be other avenues that give you free promotion and then it's a case of factoring in the time and financial input that you need to put into that side of the business it's all well and good saying oh you know I I've always managed to sell a I don't want to bring up any particular product because there are many sellers that sells specific products and I don't want it to sound like I'm pointing at them because I'm not but let's just say a cardboard box for the sake of conversation so I sell cardboard boxes and they've always sold this way and it's been absolutely fine and I don't want to be faffing around for three hours putting in item specifics on it and doing all this techy stuff well okay if you don't want to do that then you either need to find another way to get your from your your traffic to your store on your products or you need to learn it's that simple you need to make a choice if you seriously counting this as a business then you need to pivot in those directions and you need to take those factors into account the platform is a marketing pit of choices that eBay are making now and marketing is the money grabber for them they are no longer doing all that marketing for you off-platform on platform absolutely it's there it's available and that's another that's a whole nother conversation for another time into more depth but keeping this more broad you've got to you've got to take ownership of your own business and you've got to decide for yourself what works for you and what are you willing to do what are you capable of doing and what are you comfortable with doing that is not a detriment to your happiness your personal life your financial bottom line beyond what you're willing to deal with it's all about getting that ball moving forwards now instead of backwards because it has definitely taken a turn in the wrong direction for a lot of us and then it's a case of hoping that we can find that result resolution to our sticky six situations before the platform changes again so that we can then have the available mentality and mindset and time to be able to address that new road block in front of us and then always be roadblocks unfortunately that's business it doesn't stand still it's always evolving it's always changing so as many of my my followers and subscribers already are aware my take on things is to always analyze and crunch and question between the lines I I don't go always go for the obvious questions I look for the questions that you don't necessarily see and I think there's a lot to be learned from those it's we know that eBay isn't forward with its information and we'd look at those situations as well but sometimes it's a case of looking into the the dark areas of what's not said the clarity of the things that are said and I think there's much to be learned from those missing spaces they're there for a reason if they haven't answered them or if they haven't made it crystal clear there's a reason they haven't made it crystal clear there's a reason they've made it vague generally it's a legality thing but that the galaxy thing it has a knock-on effect to us of understanding what is happening what we're getting what we are entitled to what we're no longer going to be entitled to it's that information that helps us learn personally that is how I feel the obvious things and questioning all the platform broken okay well fine is that is our point of view there may be things that seem broken but they're not necessarily broken they're just in flux to getting to an end result we just don't know what those end results may well be for a very quick example the AI implementation to creating item descriptions it's not to make it look pretty to the buyer I'll guarantee it the platform knows like we do most buyers don't bother scrolling to read the item description box if you're looking on a phone you have to click multiple buttons just to get to the item description box that item description box is there for one and one reason only to capture keywords to capture specifics from the listing so that it can file your listings into a simple quick find process for the algorithm to then throw back out to potential buyers to put it in front of them the listing not the item description box buyers don't go looking for an item description box they're looking for a product and it's that the AI is using those item description boxes for and I made this very clear at the beginning of September and so many people miss it but thankfully more and more people are now starting to see that bigger picture but let's move on from there I mean for me going forwards what am I going to do different and what am I going to do I'm not going to stop asking the non obvious questions I'm not going to stop questioning and trying new ways to improve the visibility for the community and myself I mean for this channel that this this is one of my outlets to brainstorm to learn from the community as well as informing the community when I find something that is beneficial and is working always not working so that they can save their time and not do it come out with the same results but I'm definitely going to have to put more and more time into the promotion where I'm going to be going with that promotion and how I'm going to be investing or not investing to get that traffic to my listings I'm never going to use pay-per-click on on the site I just they're not clear enough that they're vague with what they're using and until I know what I'm investing in I won't use it promoted listings standard we know what's happening there is promotion within the platform we know how that works we can see that on a day-to-day basis they're putting our items in other people's listings they're putting our items as a store in front of other people in their listings they're using it across the the category pages they're putting you in better search placements that's fine we understand that and that's I can make an informed decision as to what level of my profit margin I want to use towards that and I can gauge and factor that into the bigger picture with regards to what products I'm selling I'm definitely going to have to look at higher sell-through products as on not necessarily saying what I have doesn't sell through fast but I need to expand to increase what is selling as far as the numbers on the system because we do know that the sell-through rate is very important there's a lot of things going forward in 2024 that we're going to have to readjust and pivot it's that simple and it's always going to be changing and we all need to grow so as individuals we all have to look at our own individual business and decide what's best for us and the direction we want to take but there is absolutely nothing wrong with sharing our experiences our feelings and our thoughts with the community to benefit the community because we are a family we're a family of like-minded sellers that turn to each other for progress for understanding for support and for answers so everyone keep it real and I'll see you in the next episode