Hello and welcome to eFapTV. This is actually the first eFapTV format one to be released because we've had other ones that didn't release. I'm weird and no one likes me. I guess you could call this the first of the last of us. Whoa. We've shown people this format before in episodes. I just haven't had a chance to use it yet. Let's play it safe. Welcome to 2024 everybody. Ah, there you go. So weird. I feel like this one deserves a little bit of preamble, right? We got different levels of familiarity here. The last of us, the IP, the wonderful, wonderful IP that people seriously, for one entry, people adored that IP. Yes, I believe it was Naughty Dog's most successful game more so than even Uncharted. So then you hear about it everywhere. I remember I picked it up real late. I was like, fine, I'll play this video game. And then I was like, that was good. Question mark. And then I was like, hmm, it's funny that you say that because my experience was similar. I bought it for the remaster for PS4. And I was like, that was, I really liked it, but not as much as everybody else. I just remember that was the, I had so many mechanical complaints, but I was like, I like the story a lot though. I was really bad. But yes, the story was strong, straightforward, simple, but hit a lot of beats and did so very effectively. And they're doing the, doesn't an archetype name like Wolf and Kerb or something? That's the thing. A common, yeah, the disgruntled, jaded old man going on an adventure with a kid. Well, and it's funny to look back on, right? Because a lot of people said God of War 2018 is just like a blatant ripoff of Last of Us.   Well, I mean, it's kind of funny, right? Because it's the same thing where like Logan, right? People said it was ripping off children and men.  It's just like a storytelling like format. Having watched, we just decided for the fun of it, not for anything else to watch Kung Fu Panda. And it's just like heroes. Yeah, just hard, but really, really well done. Because it's the reality is that simple or complicated. People want to be moved. People want to feel something. People want to learn something about themselves or about the world. So even though The Last of Us is really straightforward, it's, you know, two people traveling across America, right? To maybe like save the world. And yet so much was derived from just those character interactions between Joel and Ellie and the people that they encounter on their adventure and how the two come to trust each other and value each other. It's a really strong story. And then they made a sequel to it. It's so weird because like, oh yeah, that was, was that four years ago?  That was three years ago, nearly 2020. Yeah, because and The Last of Us at Self is 10 years old this year. For some reason, that's easier for me to swallow than than how old The Last of Us 2 is. The Last of Us 2, for some reason, feels like it's new still. No new. Oh, it does feel new. It does feel new. It doesn't feel like it's nearly three years old. And maybe it's just a bit of a, it seems like Naughty Dog has been subsumed by The Last of Us to the detriment or to the exclusion of anything else that they could be making. That's kind of how it feels right now. Because The Last of Us was their last new IP and that was 10 years ago. And they used to make them way more frequently. There'd been a new one every generation. And maybe they're working on a new one, but it seems like, yeah, The Last of Us has become, they're working on a multiplayer mode for two that they've been working on for like years. They did the remaster or the remake actually for the first one, because they did the first one, then they did a remaster and now they've done a remake for PS5. And now they're doing the show, which Neil Druckman is directly involved in, like in a major way. To set the stage there, you've got one, a landscape of media that's not great. We're most of the time, you're getting a bad thing. Second part, it's an IP that was once beloved and is falling apart. And then three, it's an adaptation of a video game. But an adaptation of the video game that people loved. The one that everybody liked. Right. Well, all I'm trying to say is that this is where we're at. And of course, just discourse has followed for that being like great. Here we go again. And that's not to even include all the weird comments about the production of this thing that have that have existed. It's been a strange litany of comments about video games. As a storytelling medium, their merits compared to like film and television. A lot of very dismissive remarks, a lot of dismissive remarks about video games and other adaptations. It's kind of like 2023. Arcane exists now. And I mean, that's that's like one of many, right? Obviously a varying quality, but like there was Castlevania, cyberpunk edge runners. I mean, Sonic the Hedge, Sonic the Hedgehog. Well, because it seems like at this point, we are very much in the era of, yeah, we're going to adapt video games because like the number of Sony ones, like there's a Horizon show, God of War show, a Gears of War show and film, I believe, and they're making Bioshock TV show movie. Dude, it feels so weird because Bioshock Gears and God of War, they're all things I care about a lot, like depending on the. Well, it's all of that era, you know, it's like the late 2000s. That's kind of, I don't think I can take it. Well, it's interesting because now we're in the era where they're getting the money, right? They're getting the money. But of course there was Halo as well. Oh yeah, there was a Halo show. Everyone has forgotten about it or they don't want to think about it at all. It seems now at this point is going to be impossible not to compare The Last of Us, one of Sony's flagship titles and Halo, Microsoft's flagship title, and like the quality of those two shows. That's going to be an inescapable conversation, as is of course the nature of this adaptation too. We absolutely should be getting the meme of Homer as Microsoft. Like, why does it mine look like that? Yeah, yeah. It's one fine looking barbecue pit. Why does it mine look like that? Well, writers and people who didn't care about Halo. I was just going to say if this is better than Halo, but the thing is, that is such an easy bar to pass that I'd be very surprised, especially with the level of blueprint they've got to work with. The relevant question obviously with this show is, is it going to be great? Which at least based on the initial critical reception seems to be like overwhelmingly positive. You've been hearing good things. Yes, from audiences as well. I've heard nothing but positive things. This seems to be, it really is a situation where it seems like all of the stars are lying for something good, right? You got a lot of backing behind it, so there's not going to be any limitations by a way of what you want to achieve technically. Got a lot of great actors in the cast. One of the showrunners made Chernobyl, but then also, you know, one of the showrunners made The Last of Us Part 2, but he also made the first one. He made the first one too. It's the thing that probably won't be forgotten. Whatever that comes up, the old adage, what have you done for me lately? And that's the truth is, what has he done lately in The Last of Us 2? But he's still made the, and he did work on Uncharted as well, you know? He's got a resume and there's some good stuff on that resume. Well, so that's actually one of the worries a lot of people have, is that this show, it may very well take a lot from The Last of Us 1, but it's going to be tweaking it until it matches The Last of Us 2 better. Yes, which is funny. That's like the right decision if you want to adapt both of them, right? If you want to adapt the second one to actually try and logically account for it and make sense of it.  Well, it's just interesting because it's almost like, it's not a retcon, but it's almost like a meta retcon, you know? Like it's kind of like a retcon that you all want to apply on a grander level to include the video game. Yeah, people want The Last of Us to be adapted. They don't want to see The Last of Us retold by Neil Druckmann's preferences years or later. That's not what people want. We had EFAP, you shouldn't be surprised by this take, but if they actually did fix all of the problems in The Last of Us 2 story-wise and bound a new adapted and fixed up The Last of Us 1 to match it, it involves Joel getting killed with a golf club. I'm pretty sure we said in our coverage, like, there is a way you could do that. It's going to be hard.  Not the way they did it in the game. No, we've got examples of great heroes getting killed. It's just like the word respect keeps plowing into my mind.  You can't do it the way you did it. It's not respect. It's very bad. Lots of different things being said about this already. It's a big old conversation piece because this show isn't just a show. It represents a lot more than that. A little bit of progress in the media landscape. What will this be remembered as? In a sense. Step forward, a step back, a step to the side. Those will just find out. Ah, HP. I associate them with good things because of House of the Dragon.  Not Velma? I'd agree. Well, that's HP on max. How relevant? Oh, so that's John Hanner on the left. Oh my God, he's older. He's in the mummy if you guys remember. Can I know you? No, no, no. I've just got one of those faces. He was the funny brother. Oh yeah, you're right. Yeah. Man, that's...  He's a completely useless appendage and we all know it. Oh, hey man. That's cool. I'm just having a moment of everything's so old. Yeah. Not bacteria, not viruses, so... Mushrooms. There are some fungi who seek not to kill, but to control. Viruses can make us ill, but fungi can alter our very minds. Fungus starts to direct the ants' behavior, telling it where to go, what to do, like a puppeteer. Where's the middle? Doesn't seem like a real person. It's like a robot or an android. He's an NPC in the background. He's a... A host that keeps its puppet alive by preventing decomposition. Dr. Schoenheister in distress. He's had a bad time. Fungus, this kind is real but not in humans. True, fungi cannot survive if its host's internal temperature is over 94 degrees. What if the world were to get slightly warmer? Well, now there is reason to evolve. One gene mutate, cordyceps, aspergillus, any one of them could be... That's the one. It is... The Lost of Us deserves a lot of credit for a really creative new type of zombie. Yeah, and I would say this is a good start, too. This is a good start. This is an interesting way of delivering this essentially exposition. So if that happens... Will you lose? Oh, you would have thought he would do a fun thing of life. Do a joke or something, yeah. Well, of course, that's never gonna happen, yeah. That's time I buy some portobella from the Krogers. What are they gonna choose to do? I don't like the time pods, they're real neat now. They put a lot of effort into them. Gotta love that theme, too. And the music, yeah. But actually, they didn't... They broke back the compo- Yeah, there it is. Just thinking about Halo. Oh, yeah, because Halo, they butchered it. They didn't like...  Yeah, just discarding everything else. Whereas here, they actually brought back the original composer. They brought back a lot of people. I think Troy Baker is in it. Ashley Johnson as well, like in small roles. That's like, that's nice. Steve Downs didn't get anything. Based on the game. PlayStation, we can't have our MCU, but we could corner the market on video games. No, they have a PlayStation studio as like MCU logo for their films and stuff. I saw it before Uncharted. It's got like Aloy, Ratchet and Clank and stuff in it. Oh, it was a ranked 3. Oh, yeah! They were having the ancient times. That's 10 years. I'm interested. Is this... Are they starting it earlier? They're starting it with the game starts, right? No, the game was 2013. Interesting. Game starts the same time as the... Like the year it came out, so this is earlier.   Oh, that's true. Aladdin. Oh my God, Din Djarin. It's Joel. Din Djarin, my favorite soul character. Oh, he's from Krypton. He's Joel. No, it's Max Lord. Pedro Pascal really isn't like the top world, isn't he? He's doing all right, I think, yeah. You know, I don't really like pancakes. I know you don't like them. That's for my benefit. Can you get your homework done? Fractions? Still, I'm giving a good listen to that accent. Oh, he's doing... Yeah, he is. He's putting it on. Is there enough for Uncle Tommy? Oh, Uncle Tommy. Ah, that's him.  Aw, he loves you. He's dependent on me. Not the same. I'm not splitting his job. I barely want to split it with you. I'll be done by nine. By nine, right? I'll bring back a cake. I promise. I mean, I can tell he's trying, but it mostly sounds like him to me. It does, but maybe he's just not doing a super emphasize one. Your t-shirts inside out. See, this is what I was thinking. Like, one of the benefits, I guess, that it's, again, it's just like when you're making a video game, especially when you've got a lot of combat, it's like, well, you know, sometimes you have the challenge of how much do we have of no combat versus combat compared to how much time to extend for every minute you spend not doing combat, you're risking it. Whereas in this case, it's like, well, you can have the whole day, right? Instead of starting, like, right at the outbreak, you have to spend a little bit more time seeing what Joel's, you know, normal life looked like. And yeah, that watch will matter. Oh, yeah. Knife. There's some older builds, too. I wonder when they were making this, that they were making it with the point of view in mind that everyone knows what's going to happen. They have to get on the watch number. It's a very successful game. Yeah, like a lot of people know exactly how this goes. Kind of like how if you do Batman's origin on the watch. Oh, they're setting up the, setting up the neighbor. You know, I do really like the last of us. I do like a tier original game. He's a zombie. Is he feeding in mushrooms? Well, because the the idea in the game is that it was like disseminated through food. Yeah. Atkins diet. Atkins was relatively, they had a popularity around then, didn't it? What, the 2000s? Happy birthday to you. Operation Desert Storm. Oh, veteran. Storm the desert. His brother seems to be harder on the accent than he is. And yeah, 26th of September, that was outbreak day. This is the day. Yeah. I thought they lived in Dallas. Did they live in Austin?  It's just, because yeah, we all spend much more time with here, I guess, than. I mean, you got 10 episodes, right? I think that's a good decision. Yeah. I think it's a really good decision. I don't see how it could be a bad one. I guess that hair is coming in handy.  I'm just waiting for the Shaun of the Dead style. Like someone falls over. Right. Somebody just talk often. Yeah. Reports today of many people falling over. Well, it's going to be hard to talk Shaun of the Dead. Montage. Just hard to talk Shaun of the Dead.  Yeah. Well, cat things. That makes me think of Simpsons. That cat. I think they have a clock. Yeah. I wonder if all those clocks on the wall are correct.  The fire engine is to put out the fires on the mushrooms. Well, and swat him there. They're called fire trucks, but they dispense water.   Apparently they made up a whole language just for this scene. Things don't seem right. I don't like that though. The clock becomes clearer when the line comes down. Line goes down. Yeah. Doesn't make it feel so bad about closing. I'm worried about that old lady.  Like always. People out there need to get right with Jesus. Oh, good. I was thinking we'd make some cookies. Chocolate chip. Raisin. Oh, no one likes those old ladies. No one likes those. Why? Why? Why? Every raisin you bought could have been a chocolate chip purchased.  Oh, good. The raisin cookies no one will eat are done. She'll eat one of them. Grandma could eat them. Grandma's that's the only thing she eats. She only eats raisin cookies. Everyone starts to like raisins when they get old. That's just how it works. Because they feel like they are turning into raisins. They become catapults. Hey, Mrs. Adler. Can I borrow this? That's creepy. That was nice and creepy. Oh, I should go. You sure? Yeah. Well, you're taking some cookies. If you give someone raisin cookies, you're essentially saying, here, you throw these away.  Back to normal, I guess. Oh, Doggo don't trust you.  He's like, grandma, you're not grandma. Another thing, you're making a show like this. It's always tempting to just, how will you portray this world slowly showing signs of falling apart? It's weird to see jets, but I guess the air is where they'd be. It's 10. Oh, no. Gave us the wrong size for the headers. Where's the cake? I'll get this one tomorrow. Fixed it for you. Did you? What? I don't hear anything. Thank you. This scene is really beat for beat. It's even got like identical dialogue in a lot of places. Well, that's the thing. It feels weird, but it's true, I guess, to say they're doing well. It's like, yeah, you're following the guy. I think they're doing well. Yeah, I think they're doing well. Here. What's this? Your birthday. Fixed it for you. You kept complaining about broken watch.  I think this is, it's nice, but I think it's stuck. It's not. What? No, no, no. Oh, haha. Did you? What? I don't hear anything. I was lame. You're lame. Yeah, I know. Where did you get the money for this? Drugs. I sell hardcore drugs. Where'd you get the money for this? Drugs. I sell hardcore drugs. It's better when I do. Oh, good. Let me start helping out with the mortgage then. Yeah, you wish. It was only $20. Which I stole from you. Besides, it's the thought that counts. And you're never going to do it for yourself. So. Yeah, so far I'm digging it. I want to see what happens next. Well, that's the thing, right? If none of us knew anything and we watched this with zero context, that opening scene has already set the stage, isn't it? Yeah. I'm a fan of the creepy granny and the... Because you said if you don't get me out today, you won't be able to get me out at all, assuming they don't let people out on Saturdays and Sundays? Just this is off on weekends. I actually don't know. I was just curious. I don't either. I didn't know that that's a thing. I wonder if we're going to... No, we're not. Okay. So, yeah. This is basically we're closer to where the... This is where everything goes wrong. The game began with that scene, basically. And this is, yeah. Oh, no aliens. Interesting, too, because this game came out around about the craze for the zombie stuff, right? The zombie era of media. And that was like walking dead was huge. They should be watching... Would they be watching Paul W.S. Anderson's Resident Evil series? I think the first one was out by then, right? Yeah. I'm sorry.  Come back. Whoa, they said to stay indoors. If the dog doesn't want to go home, you know something's up. Oh, is she going to inspect a bit? You can add that in. Why not? A little unsettling. That's really unsettling. The door open like that, yeah. I'm half expecting, like, grandma's just staring at the wall in one of these rooms or something. Yeah, it's something weird. That empty wheelchair has been in two shots pretty deliberately right now. Did she be taking and getting a cell phone and calling dad? I feel like this would be enough to call him, yeah. She was asleep when he left, so she should be panicking a bit. Yeah. It was 2003 though. She might actually... Did she have a phone? Oh boy. Close the door on your way. Oh, okay. Yeah, I definitely would have been closing doors myself. Why would you drop that? Why would you drop that? You fool! It just saved your life. Keep it. Is he worried about the blood on it? No. You gotta go, sir. Listen to me. It's not just the Adlers. We're going to be brave, and we're going to get out of this. Let's go. Come on. You locked your doors now! Come on, come on. Get in.  Three fish. She was running at us. You was crazy. Oh, you're dead, buddy. You take... We don't know. They're saying it's a virus. It's kind of parasite. It's a different terrorist? We don't know. That'd be a fair question. The age of it, of course not. Yep. And it's mostly people in the city. I went into the city. We have to go a lot. We're fine, trust me. Listen, lady. We'll just have to wing it. Hopefully we're okay, all right? Whether we got it or not, we gotta go. Oh, they... This is what I mean. It's like, yeah, there are a lot of bits that haven't won. So, like, just... Keep driving, Tommy. Stop! Stop! Keep driving. We're coming back. Yeah. We're coming back. No, no, no, no, no. That's important for Joel's character. Yeah, it is. Come along. Someone else will come along. By the way, just this is already so much more work for him to do than in Mandalorian. Absolutely.  Mando is nobody. They're riding a little low. They're very low. This is bad. Everyone and their mother had the same game idea. The sequence looking from the back seat. Wow, it's just like in the game. Turn here. Turn here. Come on, people, move. What do they run in from? Get us out of here. I'm trying. Yep. Even I remember that. Yeah, nice pot. I can't drive through them.  Just keep going. We can't stop here.  They're back up there. They're behind me, too. There. They're there. Hold on. Go. Wait, what? Get her out of here, Joel. Go. Surely you can go around, right? You can just go around, yeah. Yeah, you can just go around. Can you run? Is it like so close to the wall he can't get over? That is incredibly inconvenient. Okay. And I feel like you could, yeah, I feel like you could go. You could go. We're in desperate. In the games, they're in the games. Yeah, you can crawl over. If you're this desperate, you would absolutely jump over the trunk of the police car. Yeah, you just crawl over. Oh, geez. Close doors. Close doors. What is there? What is the door? I guess it was really close. Still. Because right now, you don't even know if these things are smart enough to follow you through doors. You're not sick.   You're okay. You're okay. Move your hand, baby. Move your hand. That's about everything I'd expected them to do. Yeah. I would not have expected them to deviate from that. Really? And tell the same story. It's instrumental. This is after Godzilla. I was going to say it was Boston in King of the Monsters, wasn't it? Yeah, I think so. It got nuked, and then they totally pretended that didn't happen. We don't want you falling out of the chair. What's your name? How did you get this? What if I told you that after we gave you some medicine, we're going to find you your favorite food to eat. Would you like that? It's just a little needle. You're safe. I think they cut to a harsh fire after his saying that on purpose. So did Joel say in this he was 30 something for the 20 a game? Well, because in the game, he's about 50. So it's probably, you know, about matches or like 55, something like that. He's fairly old. No surprise here. Yep. Yep. He was infected. Yeah, because it showed red on the little detector thing. Yeah. This isn't in the game. Soon we're going to be meeting tests pretty soon. Yeah, I'm actually curious what we are going to see in total first episode. Like this episode? Yeah, because hour and a half. My guess would be that we're going to get basically Joel and Ellie meeting. And then like episode two, I imagine is them leaving Boston. I reckon it's the thing. He's an ends with the end of the game. I think so. That would be, which I guess is interesting. That seems like a safe bet. How long can you keep it going? I suppose is the interesting question because yeah, we've got the we've got two games, you know, so one is there's a lot of things that happen in the game that you can extend. That's true. Well, it's part of kind of, I guess what's going to be interesting is an adaptation is like, I imagine that we're going to get a lot of things extended. Man, that's you execute them. There's nothing else we can do. I guess leaving quarantine zones is a huge it is.  Well, then you just well, I think if you knew that, then they might come back in, right? If they think that I'm saying first punishment, if they are exiled and come back, then maybe death. I guess the thing is, is that maybe they don't want to take any chances. I guess so. Ah, well. Sorry I didn't expect you to count. I could imagine they could be upset here and there because of family members making mistakes, you know. Hardering. Bring it back. It's pronounced batarring. Bartarring. Bartarring. Like tartar sauce. I don't know where to get some from. I just know they're real. Supposedly only makes two things. Pills and bullets. The more you shoot people, the harder it is to sleep, I guess. Oh, you guessed. I need to back back. That's, I like that as a touch, that even plastic bags. Need the bags back, yeah. Yeah, I would like that back. Four of them on that.   Guys are jumping and tired. What was he getting for that? Was it, um, uh, he got food credits, I think. Because remember that was in the game, right? Like the food stamps or tokens, tickets, something like that.  How about we just let it go?  You're so disciplined, though. What about your guy?  I'll tell him that I got jumped by some guys. He is saying everything she should say. He wants to survive this encounter. Yep. Yeah, Christ. Ooh, or what? Man, lucky that wasn't you. So don't breathe that. This would be the fireflies, right? Must be him, which is incredibly coincidental. He's going to let it go anyway, I guess. Sounds like it. Wait, all of them are like locked out except two? Okay. Oh, wow. He's lucky. I don't even know where the other guy went. I was going to say the main dude, I guess he ran off. I thought Robert ran off, right? Maybe or he's in the corner. Well, because remember the deciding thing was that Robert stole their guns, sold them to the fireflies. You know a change like how long Tess will be in this story? That's something that really, to me, depends on how you handle it. It's not like an outright wrong to me. It's going to be dependent on what they do. Count slowly and clearly from one to ten. One, two, three, four. Slowly and clearly. One. State your name, slowly. Veronica. Same as yesterday. Let me out or you're going to pay, motherfuckers! Allie and the Last of Us one is just so gosh-down likable. Nothing? Is there any chance it's coming in at night? You're sleeping, you miss it? When I'm sleeping, Gabriela listens. Or my son, the smart one, not the other one, God bless him. If Tommy responded, we'd know. It hasn't been that long. It's been three weeks. It's never taken him more than a day to respond. Show me where the tower is. Joel, it's in Wyoming. There are worse things than infected out there. Elephorneums. But you're sure Tommy's okay. It's the Cody Tower. Q-bar four, but I don't know exactly what. Probably listen to his explanation. I was actually about to say, dude, you want, he's going to have the best information out of anybody, right? You're going to let him talk and explain in thorough detail where he thinks you need to be good with. That little circle he's made on the map, that is incredibly important down to the last little scratch.  I guess he's trying to figure out where word is taken. God, it'll be a fun trip. Dole's the pain. I got jumped by a couple guys. You're lying. Come on, you know, these guys were born after the outbreak. Never learned how to argue to start swinging. I need the battery test. Sure, it's no good without one. And if I don't get to Tommy soon, he's going to die out there.  We got our money back and the battery. All this for such a mundane item. No, I promised Robert that you wouldn't hurt him. Ain't no mundane atoms in this world. That's the idea.  It's weird because I just had to, I had to replace my car battery about a week or, about a week ago. Just walked in, bought one, walked out with it. Simple as. But now it's like we're potentially killing over, having a working car battery or imagine a charger. Or a McDonald's Happy Meal. Or a McDonald's Happy Meal. That's true.  Molly. We've already lost four people and we're... What's the point of this one? Now, see, I don't think I'd be putting the logo up on the wall. Yeah. That'll quell the inquisitiveness. Why do we do that? I can understand putting it in random places as a form of like, we're here, we're moving things, but in your actual HQ. Girl locked in that room west. That'll be the cure, yeah? Keep it quiet. I wonder if we're gonna get much like Pio, because in the game like, the Fireflies get basically wiped out, moving west. Would make sense to retcon, just how much we got to learn about them, if we're gonna be going with the Last of Us 2 storyline. Also, they've changed the stuff with Tommy, because there was no like, big urgent thing with Tommy. It was just go find him, heat the Fireflies, he can help you out. And even, it's such a tough sell. You want us to, the idea that you really want to, make like, endear us to Joel and everything, and then try and make it to the end, he was wrong in his decision. I don't know what they're gonna do. I'm very curious. Yeah, I don't know either, if you're feeling lost. You tell me to look for the light and I'll break your jaw. Is that how the Fireflies recruit? Oh. And tell you to seek the shadow. Well, it costs us a couple of cards, but we got him. I'm not sure why they didn't just have it, like, because with the big explosion and everything, it's like, it was just before it was just, Tess comes back, she's injured, let's go get Robert. So, Veronica, how you feeling? The same. A little bit down. Where are you gonna go? Back to Federal Military School? They put me there when I was a baby. It's for orphans. I did.  And look like your mom? I'm the leader of the Fireflies and the Boston QZ. Why would you terrorist on me with Fedra? Terrorist? Was Riley a terrorist? Ba-ba-ba-ba. I was gonna say, we're running out of time to do our assumed action set piece for the Robert stuff, right? Ah, well, I guess that's weird, right? Hey, look, they like getting down, taking off the backpack like in the video game. I think they based in the video game off real life though. You know what? Very true real life. Pringing real life did happen before video games. Real life did happen before. I know it's true. Yeah. Sometimes I wonder, Rex. Sometimes I wonder.  How real life, real life is just copied by video games. But that's the one. I think they'll go for the stealthy approach. Oh my god, it's annihilation. Yeah. I remember that movie. He wasn't down here last time. Did we breathe in? He's gonna get down after it. Ah, well. I don't do the spores anymore. I'm not sure. No spores in this show. Oh, is that what cover up actor's faces? These are, I, you could argue that would be a reason is it makes things less complicated for them storytelling wise, I guess. That was it though. Yeah, there's less to worry about. I just, I don't know that that's a reason to stop doing it. I don't know. The spores was kind of an interesting thing to have. Yeah, it's interesting. There will be consequences obviously. Like, they have to be. You smell that? Asbestos. Gunpowder. Uh-oh. Ooh. That's Robert, right? Is it? I was trying to spot the face. The battery's no good. Oh. He's still trying to sell it. I say we're really deviating from the game. Really, we're not in a wider context, but we are with how closely they were doing it before. Well, yeah, because this is totally different. Oh, yeah, because she got shot, yeah. Marlene. The war must be going pretty shitty for you to be buying from scumbags like him. Yeah, it kind of has been. The merch was bad. She's standing there with a bullet hole. Like, it's nothing great. Go. Not at her. Can you just not be a barbarian please? I mean, I want my knife back, but yeah, it's probably not worth pushing it right now. It's there, it's there. Like, yeah, I'll get it later, you know? It's our business to know things. To know things. You're the cause of it. You turn my own brother against me. Okay, Joe. I wonder if we're going to get flashbacks of like Joel and Tommy because Tommy is not, he was not happy about those experiences that he had. Yeah. I'm not going with them. Let me take her. We don't smuggle people. Sorry. I can do it.  Could you please? Oh, I really didn't mean, I really didn't know she meant literally.  And I know what you're both capable of. What are you giving them? What are they capable of? You get her there safely. I'm going to give you what you need. Not just a battery. The whole thing. Fueled up truck. Guns, supplies, all of it. I swear. Yeah, sorry. That's a lot of stuff. Is it really worth the price? Because they could just go on a resource adventure themselves, right? Oh, they could. But I guess there's still a lot of stuff out there.  And it's like, we could probably get that across like during delivering her. Probably. Well, because the original thing was Robert sold them the guns and so it's like, well, I bought the guns for her in square. So, you know, like...  But before we hand her over, they give us everything that we want. If not, we kill her there and then. Deal. Really? That fast?  That's me to this show, by the way. Yeah. Yeah, same here. Because it just... There have been a few instances where the deviation is like, that's like neutral and then there are parts where it's good and then there are parts where it's like, seems like a worse choice. That just made you more suspicious all of a sudden. Yeah, I've got to say.  Because remember, nobody here knows who you are or that... There's no reason. Yeah, nobody's looking for you. You're just a girl. No, you're just a random person. Give us a minute, all right? I'm guessing that it... Because, well, I guess we should wait until... Can I just open the door if you wanted? She can hear them, too. Who's Bill Cast as... Who's Cast? Uh, it's Nick Offerman, I think. That could work out, let's hope. Uh, that could be really cool, yeah. If this is important and she just randomly stumbled over it and... Annoying when that happened. Oh, come on, you knew she hid all that, right? Radio's a smuggling code, right? Sixty song, they don't have anything new. Seventies, they've got new stuff. A lot of this dialogue is one-to-one. What are you doing? Killing time. What are you doing? Killing time. What am I supposed to do? I'm sure you'll figure that out. Well, what am I supposed to do? I am sure you will figure that out. So what's the deal with you anyway? You some kind of big-wigs daughter or something? Something like that. Oh, the radio came on when you were sleeping. It kept saying, like, wake me up before you go, go? 80s means trouble. Code broken. This could be something specific, we don't know. Time to go. Wonder if it actually would have been a good idea to go at night in that case. Yes. Because there's a curfew because of the firefly stuff, so they went at night instead of during the day while there's, like... Remember how the guy said earlier? They'd be jumpy. They'll be... I guess that they've got this pasted way. Don't go out at night because of the fireflies. It makes me think. It could be fun for a conversation, right? Like, what makes more sense? Because, of course, you have the cover of darkness, but you also have they're on high alert. Yeah, I guess from the day anyway, right? They'll be all over the place. Potentially, yeah. It depends on where you're going specifically and where the ins and outs are. You've got no good choices, really. Because once you're outside of the wall, darkness is almost certainly best. Of course, now it becomes clear, like, the reason they showed us those people getting hanged is that it raises the stakes for this. Yonk, you'd want to be really sparing with that helicopter. Yeah. Fuel for that must be precious. Yeah, that's the thing. Fuel for helicopter is precious. Being able to go... Like, a helicopter is one of the most valuable things you could possibly have. Oh, I mean, brought out through big firefly attack, you know. I suppose that's the angle, yeah. But still. Still, though. Like, are you just, like, looking randomly with a light? You're literally using it just to fly over and use a spotlight. That is a huge waste of something so very valuable. Oh, hey, guys. Oh, is he peeing? Oh, that's not the friend, is it? Man. I was wondering if they were gonna have this be the ending, actually. Oh, you didn't need to show it. I got it. Yeah, I got it. He pulls that trigger once and a gunshot happens. And he would totally appalled. Absolutely. That was also an interesting reaction from her there, that first one. That one's fine, though.  You'll need that. The gun-tick, the gun-tick, the gun-tick. Why didn't they have the conversation where, like, they thought that Marlene set them up?  They would be thinking that, surely, right? They'd be so much... I mean, maybe we're gonna get it. We're gonna get to talk about the next episode. Next episode, yeah. We have to have a come-to-Jesus meeting, yeah. Yeah, lots of stuff to be talked about. Surely that's the end. What else we got? Man, I would grab more if I could off that guy. So, right after he left, he got a radio message then. From Tommy, I guess. Or to signify something about him. After three weeks. Well, that sounds like it, dude. Oh, there's the buildings. Well then. Well, that wasn't bad at all. I would say that she's the rank of good. I would say it's good. It's just that there are some minor things where it's, like, just minor little, like, hmm... Yeah, I need some tweaks. Yeah, but that's the thing. It's tweaks. Like, the core's really strong, which should be, right? Yeah, I'd agree. I think this is definitely good. Because, like, the burst shot that takes out his original daughter I'm pretty sure that's just exactly how it is in the game. And I think I'm even, like, one of the people is like... I don't know how you... I don't know how it's possible for you to miss, but all right. You remember for me, does he get more wounded in the game version than in this? He's less wounded in the game version. I don't think he even gets hit. So much of this is, like, beat-for-beat, very similar. But then there are a few parts where it's a little... If it turns out to be beat-for-beat almost throughout, not changing... Like, this is strictly a hypothetical. I don't think this is gonna happen. But if they were to do it one-to-one and only changing stuff for, like, pragmatic reasons for adaptation, no reason why this wouldn't be very popular. It's already got a built-in audience. And then it would finally prove, like, maybe you should stick to the source when you adapt to games. Maybe you should respect the one you're adapting has merit.  Because in this case, like, as we saw during the opening sequence, a lot of it was just take the same material, but expand it. Don't really change it. Add new information. Sure, add new scenes, but, like, keep the course stuff the same. Because it's the same, right? Like, Joel's got the same setup in terms of what his character arc is going to be. Ellie's probably going to have the same stuff too, right? And I imagine it's going to be really consistent for everybody, right? Like, Bill's going to have probably more stuff with his partner, Frank, and then you'll probably have more for Tommy, maybe Maria as well. Like, it just seems like if this is any indication of the way that they're going to adapt it, it will just be keep basically the same beats, but expand them and tweak them in a little bit, which, compared to the likes of Halo, which, like, radically changes. Annihilated. Well, it annihilates it because it doesn't even seem like Halo at all. Well, that's why we have highlighted the spores, right? It's not because I love the spores, and I wish the spores were here as a fan of spores. It's that, hmm, if you don't have spores, there's a couple of things you're going to have to change in the story now. It's items of value, it's things you can go, places you might not be able to go, items you need to have, it's a sense of tension. I will say, in that, in this, the only thing to me that seemed like noticeably different and that it will probably have major implications is seemingly the stuff with Tommy. Because, like, in the game, all it was was, like, Tommy is off, you know, in, like, he's in Jackson, he's not with, like, the Fireflies anymore, he's not with Joel anymore. You got to go find Tommy because he can help you link up with the Fireflies because of his connections. Like, that was it. Whereas it seems they've got more of, like, a pressing, Tommy is in trouble, maybe, which makes me wonder, is it not just going to be that they get to Jackson and everything's really chill, and then, you know, they have their little moment together? My guess is that they're setting something up as, like, a different plot point, but, I mean, otherwise, it's pretty, pretty similar. And if we didn't have any context, if we were to be watching this just as a TV show, I imagine right now we'd be talking about, well, this, you know, Joel's the character, he seems to be, like, he's hardened as a result of what happened with his daughter and this new girl.  Would I have concluded from this one episode that this is clear we're going to be repeating? Do I think they've set enough groundwork to be, like, oh, look, he's got a bad relationship with this girl because he doesn't want to even risk getting close to it, or am I being a bit harsh, and I should wait for at least another episode before we've set that foundation? Well, it's one episode, and we only spent half of it in our, like, their belly. Well, they met each other for, like, five minutes, yeah. Yeah. I get what you mean, because, like, I'm going to be, it's very hard for me not to view this without always constantly, like, drawing my attention. Yeah, it's tough. Like, I got to really separate them out as they are separate. I guess that would be the thing to clarify. Everything where it's, like, it's different. I'm not, like, thinking that it's bad or anything. I'm more just, like, hmm, I'm curious. Like, the Tommy thing. Like, that could be a whole episode. Or the spores. It's not necessarily bad. Well, I see what happens. Like, you know, even something that's seemingly way less consequential, which is just, like, the whole thing with the guns versus them getting the battery and the supplies to go find Tommy. Yeah. It's just different. Like, whether or not it's a better or worse change. I think the only things would be, like, man, that it was the same guy that you bumped into, like, out there when in the game, it was just two random soldiers. It's like, that's very coincidental. Though, I guess it's pretty inconsequential. It didn't seem to make much of a difference, right? Like, whether or not it was him. Coincidences of, like, I would call them mid. They are mid coincidences in terms of impact. Yes. Some of these, they're not, they don't destroy anything, but they're not exactly small. They wouldn't be called small. Well, and I guess it's really interesting because it's like, the game didn't have those. So, like, you changed it and kind of added coincidences where they didn't really exist in the games. Yeah. And part of the trouble is that, I guess, we need to wait a little longer before we can be definitive because it might be an aid of something we don't know yet in terms of what story they want to tell. Or there's more information that we'll get to contextualize some of these things better. Who knows? Yeah. It's just, yeah. I mean, there's not much to, there's not much to be critical of really by way of, like, what's happening with the plot because we barely started yet. And otherwise, in terms of character, I feel like, you know, like with each scene, we've gotten a pretty good read of every person, you know? I mean, to me, I feel like by the end of this episode. This might be the very first proper archetype of what people want when you adapt from a game to a TV show. Yeah. And it's kind of crazy, right? It's like, oh, surely Arcane. It's like, no, no, Arcane, Arcane's not the same thing. It's like a really great TV show that is inspired by League of Legends. This is practically telling the same story, but again. It's more of a direct adaptation because when you run the gambit, it's like, and hey, we compare it to the other Naughty Dog thing. Uncharted's very different. It has Nate and it has Sully, but doesn't have Elena, doesn't have the same El Dorado, like Central doesn't have the same villains, doesn't have the same dynamics or interactions at all. It's very different. Whereas in this case, it's the same plot. It's just like minor changes and variations. And there's not a lot of video game adaptations that'll like that, that are directly doing. Mortal Kombat was not really directly like pulling any story from any Mortal Kombat game, kind of pulled bits and pieces.  It's totally different. Well, that's kind of the thing, right? You'd be like, they should theoretically be four results. Ones that are the unfaithful, but, you know, well executed. So Arcane, unfaithful and badly executed. Halo, faithful and badly executed. Is that, have we got one for that? I think we got one for that. There are not many faithful video game adaptations. They just aren't, at least they haven't been for a while. Yeah, that's the thing. That's the reality we've been in for so long. They just don't care. When you adapt something like Resident Evil, it's like, what am I taking? Zombies? Mansion? Yeah. Yeah, that'll do. Yeah, exactly. And then of course it's because when I'm thinking about other examples, it's like Castlevania is kind of like its own thing. Like I don't think that one was retelling. It was kind of like a pulled characters, right? But different scenarios. And then Edge Runners is like adjacent. It's like set in the same universe, but it's not an adaptation of 2077. What about that Pac-Man movie with Adam Sandler? Oh, Hexsauce. Yeah. Everyone loved that, right? That's right. They did. Everyone did love that one, yeah. And then of course you have... There's other ones I'm getting as well. And then you'd have Faithful and Good. And that is what I would rate this right now. Well, this episode for sure.   I'd be like, yeah, see, everyone's going to draw a line differently. Oh, I guess the thing is close. I feel like you've got my references. And it's like, there are a lot of lines that are just like identical. Your watch is broken. Your watch is broken. You mumble in your sleep. You mumble in your sleep. It really depends on how you do it, right? Because like if it was, how much does it stay one to one? It's like, well, okay, it doesn't in a lot of ways. But like the spirit is absolutely, we know exactly what we're getting from this. It's going to be what the point of the game is. Listen to me, I know this hurts. You're going to be okay, baby. Stay with me.  I know, baby, I know this hurts. I know this hurts. You're going to be okay, all right. Baby, baby, baby, listen to me. I've got to get you off. Come on, baby, please. I know, baby, I know. Sarah, I know, baby.  Tommy, help me. Joel, no, don't mumble, get up. Come on, baby, go. The fact that they were even trying to like mirror the vibe or the atmosphere of specific moments in the game with the framing, right? Like in the car where it's very much. Because I mean, they did the same thing, right? In the game, Sarah is the POV character in the opening and then it kind of transitions gradually over to Joel and they did the same thing too.  It's weird to see that kind of thing with the comments that came out before this thing you released. What do you, what do you think at all? One's about storytelling in video games. You got, you got a vibe. Oh, I get you. Yeah, right. It's like, why were you like, it seems maybe that, maybe that's the Neil Druckmann influence of trying to like inject the stuff from the game that he worked on. It may be. I'm not sure. I mean, it's always going to be hard to say right. It could just be. The man was saying some stuff that didn't translate well slash he wasn't explaining himself too well. Just take, for example, the whole like, oh, you can reset a whole thing because it's a video game and that'll ruin the, your investment, blah, blah, blah. You could imagine if he was given like an hour to explain entirely what he means. He could be like, a lot of the time in cut scenes, we do it because it's really hard to have something bombastic or significant drama happen and then like reset because you died or you didn't press the switch or you didn't do that. So we usually cordon those big moments off to cut scenes so that they are like, that's one of the many reasons why that might happen.  You don't see that twice. You don't see something like his daughter dying twice because you didn't kill enough guys at one point. That's done. And then it could be like, and that's what we're doing in the TV show now. It's going to be every moment is one you see once. And so we can further focus on like that aspect that gaming does really well. But I'm saying this as if it's even close to something he might think, I don't know. I'm just going from the fact that I've seen this and I'm like, oh, you clearly respect the game. It's hard not to get the sense that there is respect being paid to the game and like even when we've seen so far. It is kind of weird, right? The comments. But then again, a lot of his comments were like, this is the greatest story ever told in video games, which like calm down. But still, I'm fine with his favorite, but greatest. Well, let's put it this way. It's a lot better that he doesn't seem to have contempt for the last of us. Even if it's comments about the industry in the medium as a whole have been very bizarre. Like it seems like a lot of it has been falling over the games. And I guess the fact that you've got like some involvement from like Naughty Dog, you know, people that does that. I guess all I would say is like after that first episode, it's like, yeah, you know, yeah. Well, one of the talking points, like I think that all the acting is fine to good. I'm not sure I've been blown away yet. I'm hoping I will be when we get to the hardest stuff.  Well, I mean, we got a lot of a lot of really crazy moments, right? Like, yeah, like Ellie against David, the cannibals, like that scene, the Henry stuff as well. Like there's, yeah. And of course, the ending. There's a there's a lot of stuff that could be like really like really showcasing. Production value. It feels like a movie, obviously. We are in that era. TV shows look like films. This one's got a lot of money behind it, but more so than Halo, which it oftentimes felt cheap. This one felt like super duper cohesive. Like there was never a point where I'm like, man, I feel like you're on a set. Yeah, I never got those moments at all. It all felt there's a lot of there's a lot of cool cinematography choices again. It's like there's a clear dedication to like realizing something here. So that's a good sign. Definitely shot with care. Oh, yeah. So I'm really curious to see more. And I guess something that I would like to actually give them props for is like bringing back the original composer is really cool. Bringing back some of the actors from the games, either to play the same character or to appear in some other capacities, really cool. Because like a few people from the games are going to be in the show, not playing the same characters, obviously. Likely to do with Druckmann's connection as well. That would have facilitated a lot of that, I'd imagine. Well, it's just Blasphemy was terrible, but if this is worth complimenting, we can't be lying about it. I think that's just how it works. Well, I mean, if this show is really great, he deserves credit for that, because he is like a major. He co-wrote the show. It's honestly, the thing about it is, like if it were as good as it currently is, when there's one episode for like nine out of 10 episodes and then the 10th one, they change everything to match Las Versus, that is going to piss me off so hard. Oh, yeah. But hopefully they're not going to be doing that. I don't know what they're going to be doing. I don't know what they're up to. You know, it's kind of hard to... I suppose that the reality is if they maintain this quality, it's like, oh, you've done a good job. I don't know if you've done as incredible. It's hard to say, right? Like, because it's not done yet, we're not up to a lot of the big payoffs. No. I guess what happens to you. This may very well be the most faithful episode for all we know. Yeah, I suppose. The interesting thing will be like almost sitting there wondering, because my impression would be Episode 2 ends with Tess dying and then, you know, them setting off. Something that I know for sure is that they're going to do way more with Bill and his partner. Like, that's going to be a much bigger thing than just like a story that... Room to expand everywhere. There is room to expand, but then there's also the question of how much do I want to see? Like, do I need to see what Joel and Tommy got up to during those intervening 20 years? Well, how long are these episodes going to be? I'm assuming this is an abnormal length? I presume that they're... I presume that they're going to be like an hour roughly, right? Yeah, I would assume... Wow, I wouldn't have been surprised. It was like 45 minutes, but I guess we're going to be 15 minutes away. It's like, you're all right, so sometimes they're chongas episodes. Seriously, though, if they stay the course of this first episode, there's no nothing stopping them from being popular, I don't think. I think so. This is definitely the beginning of what could be a very good... You know, a good track to be on. Yes, I agree. That was a good premiere. Definitely a good start.  Well, I guess... Thumbs up or even consider the thumbs upwards. We will likely continue to watch them as... I think so. Yeah, I'd like to watch it. Whether or not you guys would like to see more of this sort of thing, what you just watched there, let us know in that comment section below. That's right. Yeah, other than that, that's the Last of Us TV show, Episode 1. Episode 1. Interesting. Yeah. Okay, bye. Goodbye, everybody.


Good afternoon, not yet, but it's close to afternoon. First, I would thank Professor Peter for changing his mind, I should say, because initially he said no time for this doctrine of timelessness, and then he jumped into saying, yes, you can have some time. So thanks for that, and the other comment I would say is Professor Anupamji, he presented the complexity of this whole philosophy of science and math, and here I'm ready to take you to the journey of subtleness, and I'm not sure if I'm gonna deconstruct the complexity or reconstruct it, you can decide on that. So in context of this theory of timelessness, my first question, which I have is, does time exist in time? And we'll see in this journey, I'll try to answer this question and some more around that. This is just to give a science feeling. In Jainism, there is two different traditions, Digambar and the Shwetambar, and each of them have their own theory of time, and as you just heard, in Digambar tradition, time is a real concrete reality, and every cosmic space unit, there is one time unit embedded on it, so the whole cosmic space has time units embedded on it, like gems, on a cloth, on your dress, whereas according to Shwetambar tradition, time is actually a mood, which means pariah. Every reality going through change is because of time, and in some ways we could say time is change, or change is time, and time is the moods of other reality. So with that background, I'm going to take on to the journey of timelessness. I'll skip this. So here is a few words, and this is in context of life forms, there was a question about life forms, and they've used three terms to denote numbers, first is kati, akati, and avaktavya. Kati is a word which means numbers from two to numerable, akati means innumerable to infinite, and avaktavya means one, whereas in Digambar tradition, there is slight variations in the words and their meaning, it's kati instead of kati, and it's also krithi there. The three and more is kati, no krithi or no kati would be one, and avaktavya is two. What we see common in these two traditions is the event mentioned zero here. The second important thing here is that in Shwetambar tradition, number starts from two, one is actually not counted as a sankhya. Now, there will be a problem here of language because if the moment we use the word number for sankhya, we are in trouble. Sankhya, according to the Jainist view here, especially the Shwetambar tradition, sankhi eti sankhya, which means which is countable, that is sankhya, and count starts from two, not from one. So one doesn't fall into the category of sankhya, and if I translate sankhya as number, one doesn't fall into the category of numbers. But again, we know that number has its own definition. So why, this is a brief of it, a number when squared increases in values, and when the original number is subtracted from it, it is still increased value. Like if we square two, for example, we square three, it would be nine, and if we subtract three from nine, still the remainder is six, which is a higher number, and that is where we would call it. Here, what's interesting to note is that, again, we do use zero as a number. I mean, there are so many mathematical calculations and stuff, which rely on this zero as a number. So zero is a non-number and a number as well. Now jumping into my timelessness, the word shunya, which I found in Bhagavati Sutta, was captivating because it talked about shunya kala. The moment it read shunya kala, I thought something about empty, I mean timelessness or no time or zero time, but it was a little different. It's still interesting. Here, the Sutta mentions three kinds of time periods to denote the migration of beings from in and out of life form. There are three varieties. So one is empty period, which is shunya kala. Non-empty period, which is, actually it should have been a shunya kala. And the mixed is a mixed time period. So the empty period is when at a particular current period from among the inhabitants, all migrate to other realm without a single remnant. So for example, there is this form of life we call, for example, the hellish beings. All hellish beings who are currently residing in that form, they would migrate to some other form and there is no other immigration happening there, which no new beings have been born there. And when the whole form of hellish beings get emptied and how long they stay in that empty period, I mean, how long is the period of absence of any beings in that form is actually shunya kala. I think it's very simple, but when you say it, it feels like complicated. The word virah kala is also available in pragyapana, which is again the same word. In jiva jiva bigam, we find the word nirilepa kala. Now nirilepa kala is actually the duration which it takes to empty a life form. So for example, if we start emptying all human beings, wrong example, but it's fine. All human beings from the human form and we pick each one at one moment of time, how long will it take to empty it? Some simple as that. So the nirilepa kala actually is a process of emptying, whereas shunya kala is a duration, how long it stays emptied. Now in regards to this, this shunya kala concept is actually a nikshe, but it's a perspective from which the life forms are being analyzed. And according to Ohira, this concept, which is there in Bhagavati, should have come about around 4th, 5th century AD. And her argument here is that since nirilepa kala, which is found in jiva jiva bigam, must be a forerunner of Bhagavati's concept of shunya kala, hence the possibility is the shunya kala concept is around 4th, 5th century AD. AD, but according to my analysis is that it need not be the case that the nirilepa kala should be a forerunner of shunya kala concept. It could have been the other way around as well. And the other thing is if this nikshepa concept of shunya kala or kala exists in the scripture, without the concept of shunya kala, the kala concept of nikshepa could not run for long. So the probability is whenever this concept of kala nikshepa did exist in the scripture or came about in the scripture, that should have been the time period of this concept of shunya kala as well. Okay, so the next analysis is about the word which I found around this was a pradeshi. Now pradeshi actually means unit, and that unit could be used for like matter, soul, space, hermasekai or hermasekai. Here the question is in context of time, that are these souls pradeshi or a pradeshi? So here the word a pradeshi, the a is not kind of saying, it's not about denial, but it is trying to talk about like one unit rather than like no unit. And the life forms are propounded to be multidurational or unidurational, which means like the first moment of a life form and the kind of the other longer duration of the life form. Why this is important is, if I go back to the zero and one, zero is not a number from one perspective and even one is not a sign here. So this connects with that. This reflects the shunya kala is the duration of the absence of x, pradeshi is about presence only in the first or one moment. The next component around timelessness which I found was this Menangianism, I'm not pronouncing it right. This is a theory given by Menang and he's an Austrian philosopher who talks about non-existentials. So we do use non-existing reality in our philosophical explanations and that does convey the meaning or message or whatever we are trying to, I mean, why are we trying to use it? So objects are existing in timelessness which means they do not exist in space and time but they have a very significant role to play in our world of philosophy like the unicorns. Now does such Menangian jungle or Menangian concept exist in Jainism? So here's just one example. This is in context of upratipati avdhigyan. So upratipati avdhigyan is actually, avdhigyan means clairvoyance and upratipati means which would not decline. So a person who has this non-declining clairvoyance potential, what is its potentiality? So to reflect, I mean, to convey that it talks about innumerable, the person is able to observe innumerable loka pramana. So innumerable does, how many lokas exist as per Jainism? It's just one. So then this innumerable loka is actually a Menangian, I mean, reality which doesn't exist in time and space but it has its existence in the philosophy here. Again, going back to my initial question, timelessness of time. So according to Shwetam what I mentioned that time is not actually a physical reality but it is just the modes of reality. So does time exist in this physical world as a reality? No. So here the whole idea is, again, and I mentioned that upkarakam, upkara is one of the aspect or attribute of reality and time is defined as a reality or a dravya in Jainism by the definition of upkarakam dravya. And hence though it has a significant position in the philosophical reality it would actually be a timeless existence but yet it's a very tricky thing because though it is a timeless reality, its existence as a mode or its existence as an intrinsic quality of reality still persists. So it's just a paroxysmal thing if you look into that in the other way around. Okay, so now having talked about the concept of time in context of time going into cosmos. Does time exist in space and space existence in time could be another way of presenting the question? For that there are two terms being used, Thiriyak Prachay and Urdu Prachay. Thiriyak Prachay means the expansion or existence of reality and space. So three dimensional existence in space is how it's been identified whether it's Urdu Prachay means existence or expansion in time. Thiriyak Prachay, okay, so the time actually if we go by the Digungar theory of time it is existing on every space unit which means it does have existence but it lacks three dimensional expansion. It is just unit dimensional existence whereas turning around time lacks an aggregate form though it is there as every unit on every space cosmic space unit. It doesn't have a congregate form or a conglomeration or an aggregate form which is a secret and so it lacks the three dimensional expansion. Cosmic space have Urdu Prachay which means it exists today, yesterday and tomorrow so cosmos of space exists like in all three time periods which means cosmic space exists in time but the problem comes when we analyze it that in context of supracosmos. Now in our previous lectures we did listen that the space is divided into cosmos and supracosmos. So here we find that the supracosmos is an infinitely expanded space without any other reality existing in it. So if nothing exists, time as well doesn't exist in it both as per Digungar's and Shwetambar's. So can any reality exist without time is a crucial problem for Janes. Now how do they resolve it? The Digungar smartly could take care of it because of their theory of time. Dravya Sangra tries to answer it in two by giving two different analogies. One is an object enjoy through one sense renders delight to the whole person. You all agree with that? You enjoy your ice creams, it's not just the tongue. And so here it's trying to say that though the Kalano, the time units are existing in space within the cosmic space, it has an impact at the supracosmic space as well as simple as this. Time units is there in every unit of this room, right? So which time unit is really helping me survive here? Is the time unit which lies on the cosmic space where you are seated or is it the unit which I am standing here? So here the Digungar theory is that it's not that each unit of time actually helps the reality which lies on that space. It works like one force. And since it works like one force, so the time unit which lies around you or within you, I mean the space which you've occupied, if it can help me, it can surely help the Alokas, right? So that's one way of there trying to resolve the problem. The other example given by them is, in Dravya Sangre is a bamboo touched by at one place actually the whole bamboo moves. So Digungar survived there but the Shwetambar do have a problem. And the biggest problem is that if for them time is nearly a mood, what would be a big problem they would say time exists in Aloka. So it's something which they need to explore or we need to explore. Okay, so now I'm gonna jump into a different concept. It's called Ursprishadgati. So to understand Ursprishadgati we should really understand the time unit which is called Samay. Samay is the subtlest time unit in which is defined as any atom, it has to travel from here to there. Like if there's an atom which starts from me and reaches you and with the least amount of time it could be one Samay. And this Ursprishadgati, I'll skip this. Okay, so this Ursprishadgati is a travel where the theory of space-time relativity falls. So to understand this, one simple example, if I take one hour to travel and reach my destination making sure that the speed is like the constant without changing the speed, how much time would I take to travel half the journey? Half of the time? Right? Are we all awake? Yes, okay, good. So if it is half of the time and giving you another situation, if a soul travels from this to the end of the cosmic end in one unit of time, how much time would it take to travel half of its journey? But is there anything smaller than one unit? No. So here is where the theory of speed and the relationship of space and time actually breaks apart. The way this is defined is that Ursprishadgati means where the journey is without touching the intermediate atoms or space units. So literally there is nothing like a half journey. They're not reaching to the half journey, they really directly reach to the next destination. And here Mr. Gilder, Professor Gilder, he brings up this analysis where he says that this, I mean he tries to define it as zero time. This is where actually I started my journey as well, but I changed it to timelessness. The state of zero time is when the time is presented, the whole space when time reaches to zero, substance or matter can stay in two or many places in the same time unit parallel. So if the substance is here and there in the same unit, but can a substance be in two places at the same time? It's something kind of doesn't sense right, but this is how the theory goes. So this is something where we call it, I have called it as immeasurable time or I would call it as the epistemological problem which we have, we cannot perceive that the whole notion of time there, it's timeless for us. I would skip this and, okay, let it go. And the concept which I found around this was kare mani kari, which is a theory in Bhagavati which talks about the action when started actually is the same time the action is completed. And there has been a whole lot of discussion. There is a Jain theory of heretics or Ninnavad and there there's a claim that Mahavya's son-in-law was confused by this theory. So not going into that big debate. According to Ohira in her analysis of Bhagavati she comes up, she mentions that the probability is this kare mani kari concept could have been there in Bhagavati earlier but then since it could not find an acceptable thing it did not kind of transfer or did not kind of move forward with the other texts and it's found probably only in Bhagavati. So this is another theory of timelessness and one more here. I think this would be my final one. Omniscience, right? If this Jain theory of omniscience is where the Enlightened Soul, the Kaolin is able to perceive all realities, all modes of realities in the same time. So they perceive the past as past, present as present, future as future but when are they perceiving it? In the now, which means here again they go beyond the confinement of time. So this is another way we could look into timelessness. Sorry. Finally I tried to wrap up and see if I could come up with a sense of the whole thing. I put the first one I've mentioned here is timelessness of reality which could be looked into as supracosmos and this is a cosmological concept which we are talking about. I mean timelessness in context of cosmological concept. The second one is Menengian Reels which are actually reels which are absent and which is a pedophysical concept. Beyond time is where we see the omniscience go beyond the confinement of time and this knowing, I mean the Keval Gyan actually is intrinsic quality of the soul. Intrinsic quality of the soul is related to transcendental time. So here the, it is related to the cognitive theory and it hooks up with the transcendental concept of time. Why I say this, you'll know like just after this. So the next one I mentioned is immeasurable time which is us Prasad Gati, the movement in one time unit from here to there or being two places at the same time unit. This is Vyajnipariya. Vyajnipariya means an extrinsic action or something which is happening which is empirical, I mean which is related to the empirical time and this is an epistemological concept and it is beyond language. So we could see here that the concept of time, timelessness could correlate or have its own existence within the Jaina theory or Jaina philosophy in context of cosmology, pataphysics, cognitive theory and epistemology. And finally, if it makes sense, I kind of presented the whole thing in a very different thing but if you just look at this one here, I've put this timelessness into philosophical and mathematical. It's kind of bridging the science of not religion and science but philosophy and science I would say. And here these two exist in this conceptual time. So conceptual time is where there is a philosophy and there is mathematics as well and this is the marriage of philosophy and thing. I've just kind of briefed it, metaphysical time. Metaphysics is actually having two aspects, modes and reality, existence and change. And in context of existence, we find the timelessness in supracostmos or the Menendian realities whereas in pariah, of course, the absence of a pariah could be timeless. And in context of the rest is conceptual time, which I started my journey with the empty period of Shunya, Carl, Nick Sheper, which is an analytical tool. The second one is immeasurable one and the third is beyond time. So these are all kind of bringing the idea that there is this marriage of time and space and I'll just quickly come up with few more conclusions or the analysis of my analysis is. Time theory in Jainism is very complex. Complexity is not just in context of its complex nature but the way the theory is presented here and there with its own paradoxes and incompleteness is its beauty as well. Because only because of that unstructured philosophical concept of time, we were able, I mean, I was able to draw into all these kind of diverse aspects of it. The other thing which I would try to bring is that time is actually in our Shikha New York, it's mentioned that time is gross than space, which means space is subtler than time. So time is if gross, still it has so much of complexities and why is it so? I mean, that's a question which I come up with and finally I would say that can anything happen in no time? I mean, anything which takes place in this figure is taking place in time. So can timelessness be really a possibility? So timelessness is timelessness, actually, thank you.


Over the past decade, illicit trade has grown into a global phenomenon of far-reaching proportions and causing unprecedented human, social, economic, political and environmental harm. It undermines sustainable economic development and has also become the primary source of funding for transnational organized criminal networks. In July and August 2012, Interpol and the World Customs Organization deployed Operation Meerkat across eastern and southern Africa. This operation in fact is the first one we can say conducted in this particular sector in this region. We have also to remind it's a joint operation between WCO and Interpol. In the first phase we have recorded a good number of seizures which were carried out by both police and customs. As we have discussed also during the preparation of this operation, we believe that we have to establish a sustainable approach for this region in order to support the activities which already are undertaken. The focus of Operation Meerkat was to concentrate law enforcement efforts in combating the trafficking of illicit tobacco and alcoholic beverages to product sectors which are highly affected in the region. To most of these seaports it arrives a lot of products and containers coming from different parts of the world that are going straight to landlocked countries such as Zimbabwe, Lesotho, Botswana. So that's why it's so important that the authorities continue performing this kind of strict control on the containers and merchandise arriving to this region. Our country is losing a lot of revenue every year. Due to illicit trafficking of cigarettes and other tobacco products we are losing about between three and four billion rand each year on driving you which is very important for us to try to apprehend people responsible for this type of crimes. The main challenge that we face is obviously the understanding of the volume of these illicit goods that are coming into the country as well as the monitoring and patrolling our borderlines because we have quite a vast and expansive borderline where these goods come across. So monitoring and enforcing those kind of actions is one of our key challenges at the moment. Operations require several weeks of careful planning, preparation and integrated training with close cooperation and coordination between all the agencies and organizations involved. Police and customs officials work together to patrol land, sea and airport border control points checking vehicles, boats and containers for illicit goods. Raids at marketplaces and shops were also carried out. Operation Meerkat has again revealed increasingly elaborate methods used by transnational organized criminal groups to traffic illicit goods. Traffickers, they prepare a concealed area inside this bus in the underneath part and they hide these tobacco products. These are part of the original consignment that it was hidden. This place, it was intervened some weeks ago and it was part of an intelligence gathering from the private sector that gave place to an intervention performed by customs and an investigation that is currently performed by the police. So this whole consignment, it's valued around 1 million euros and you see it's a big amount of cigarettes from many different brands and the main problem they have, I mean the infraction that they have is that this is a illicit product but it was hidden from the authority to avoid paying taxes so that will of course imply that that money won't come for the government and it will go straight to the counterfeiters and to the smugglers. The resources required to police millions of movements of merchandise across borders involve close cooperation between officers skilled in prevention, intelligence, detection and investigation. This logo or seal that you find here that they call the South African Diamond It must be included in each one of the legal cigarette packages but we don't see it here so this is an illegal product. The operational coordination units monitored the exchange of information between the participating countries with additional support and tools being provided by Interpol's regional bureaus of Eastern and Southern Africa. Those arrested during the interventions have their names checked against Interpol databases. They will take the names and they will make the checks in the database but this is only at the international level but our colleagues here in the economic branch and the tobacco area they are also doing the same checks in the national databases. Police carried out 40 interventions during Operation Meerkat which led to the seizure of more than 32 million sticks of cigarettes, 134 tons of raw tobacco and 2,844 litres of alcohol. Once the criminal proceedings are concluded the seized goods will be sent to central warehouses where they will be destroyed. Operations like Operation Meerkat is playing a vital role to connect people from the different countries that we can rehearse during these operations and it's also operational sort of interventions that you can do through that. The engagement with the WCO and Interpol in terms of spearheading this kind of operation is very important and it gives us an opportunity to network with other countries to utilise the electronic tools that are available to communicate and share information as well as the seizure data on interdictions that are conducted in the countries. It also gives us an opportunity to share some of the risks that are being identified within countries so the WCO and Interpol's engagement with this operation is very important and we appreciate and we support it. Certainly this operation has shown the possibility, the great potential of the cooperation between police and customs at national level as well as by relevant agencies internationally. These seizures, some of the seizures recorded are significant and what is also important to underline is that the job is not concluded here. The exchange of information which occurred amongst the different agencies involved certainly will lead to additional seizures in the forthcoming weeks.