character and actions of the pastor are held to a higher standard than the character and pastor of the average congregation.  You need to reckon with that's exactly why we're going to be judged more strictly as teachers and that's why our character matters. Welcome, welcome to the BCV channel. I am your host Pastor Seco Woods. Please do the following. Please like, subscribe, share, hit the notification bell at the bottom of the video. That way whenever I go live and post any content you'd be one of the first to view it. Also if you'd like to support this ministry financially first and foremost thank you those of you who have been faithful and supporting and have been expressing your love to us tangibly. We do appreciate that. Thank you so so much but if you'd like to support this ministry financially you can continue to do so by clicking the donation links below the bottom of this video. Also if you'd like to become a body lifer. 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You do not have to be married to subscribe to the channel. You do not have to be in a marriage to subscribe to Love Life and Marriage. Just the title of the channel pretty much explains that it's love, life and marriage. So we try to address and discuss issues of love of course and and life issues and also marriage. And if you are single you still are welcome to be a part and to subscribe to the channel. Now of course when we deal with issues of a sexual nature over intimate context we do understand that you would not subscribe or not necessarily subscribe but not view that particular content. We definitely understand and respect that. But we do want to let you know that you are more than welcome to be a part of the of the broadcast and of the channel. And so if you have questions or if you have ideas for particular topics we would love to hear from you. You do not have to be married in order to share your input or your thoughts on that. So we want to let you know that just off the top you are you are definitely welcome to be a part of Love Life and Marriage with the Woods. You are more than welcome to do that.  You are our supporters as well and we do appreciate that. Also moderators thank you so much those of you who are in the in the chat YouTube family welcome Facebook family. I see you.  Darnisha brother Jim welcome. Alexia welcome sister Tamika. I see you brother Raymond welcome brother Adrian welcome Facebook family.  If you don't mind please share the video on your end of the Facebook side. Please do that. I definitely appreciate that. Thank you so so much. Also YouTube family. Let's go up there a little bit of a roll call here. Those of you who are there Gary 828 welcome. I see you brother. Thank you for joining Pb Kailer. See you as well. Welcome. Just to Erica. Good to see you. Fix your face. What's going on. Good to see you sister Cindy. Good to see you. Hello. Hello. Good to see you sister. CG. What's going on. Thank you my brother. Thank you. Brother David. Good to see you as well. Miss Bobby. How are you ma'am? Good to see you. Thank you so much. My sister right there now sister. I'm gonna be nice. I'm gonna try to be nice. Well see I'm I am nice. I am nice to miss Sharon. So please don't tell me that you know I'm being mean to miss Sharon. See this is my channel right now. This is my channel. See when I'm on the love life marriage channel. You may have a little bit to say about that but see she's not in here right now. So you can't be saying leave miss Sharon alone. Okay. But anyway good to see you sister. Testaments and testimony. What's going on my brother. What's happening. What's happening sister Amanda. Good to see you. Thank you sister for for joining. Thank you so much. Let's get those likes up. We have six likes but we have 29 in the chat. Let's see. See. No it's her channel too. Okay. Whatever. Half. Alright. Whatever. But let's get those likes up everybody. We have 2028 now. I believe in the in the in the chat that are watching rather and we have six likes. So let's get those likes up if you have not done so. Facebook family. Peek your head on in and hit the like button as well. YouTube and Facebook are two different algorithms.  Please do that Facebook family. I would really appreciate that. Thank you so much in advance. So let's let's get started. Some of you have asked the question. Some of you have asked the question that man 130. Yeah. 130. 130. 130 reasons why you may want to leave 130 reasons why you should leave an abusive church not submit and follow an abusive leader or sit under abusive leadership. Yes. 130. These are not my list. These are not my numbers but I do resonate and I do concur with the majority of them. And I'll put the link in the video description below at the end of this stream. But we're going to we're going to go through them. I'm not going to I'm not going to spawn on all 130 of them. Don't worry but I'm going to identify with a few of them. OK. So just get a pin. Some of these things may resonate with you as well too. I'm pretty sure for most of you it will be. And I find it to be rather timely and appropriate that I discuss this this matter if you have not watched the the the premiere that my wife and I did today on Love, Life and Marriage with the Woods. I want to encourage you to go over there and watch the video that we did regarding our reason or reasons and why we decided to leave the church that we were that we were members of or basically being members or just about to become members. We hadn't signed anything but we had been there for about 10 months. Went through the new members class and you know it was attending and it was it was it was a blessing. I mean from what we saw from what we saw. So if you have not watched the video time to find another church. I would I would encourage you to do that. Some of you have already have have resonated with it and have identified with it and have prayed for us and have encouraged us to continue to keep pushing. We would definitely do that. But it is very disappointing. It is very disappointing to to leave a church when you have been you know you thought that would be the the spot that would be the place where you can you can you know dig your heels in ten toes in and and connect you and your family with other you know like minded brethren but things happen. And so you know I can't I can't compromise the word of God for the sake of anyone's views that are not in in in conjunction with the word of God. So anyway but I want to encourage you to go to the BCV not go to the Love Life and Marriage. It is on my BCV channel but I've been trying to push people to watch it on the Love Life and Marriage channel. And if you have watched it, I wouldn't I would ask for you to please share that video with as many people as you can. Okay, I would ask that you do that. It helps. It helps to build our numbers up so that way we can get at 1000 subscribers and then we can monetize that channel and get other videos circulating and generating through that and keep the stream and flow of income that we're trying to generate here because this is what we do now. This is our this is our ministry. We have decided to to serve the body of Christ from a virtual standpoint and and whatever other means that we can do so and we do appreciate we do appreciate that for those of you who have been reaching out to us for counseling and reaching out to us for for questions and things like that so I would we would definitely appreciate that. So and and here's the link my sister put up there is the link right there. You can you can see it in the chat but you can also just go over to the Love Life and Marriage with the woods on YouTube. Appreciate my brother. Thank you man. Thank you. Thank you. You know, I got to represent the D slave for Christ. You said checked out the previous post. Have you brought your concern to the leadership? No. No, I have not. And for reasons and for reasons I had explained, I believe in the video and and the reason why I've decided to just move on and and not and not even, you know, contact the pastor because he and I already had a conversation prior to us, you know, us deciding to leave. It wasn't regarding this but it was regarding me being on board and becoming an executive pastor at the potential tentative church plant that he was, you know, working toward toward, you know, doing. And so communication, it just has stopped. Not on my end. I mean, I have text messages and things like that. And I didn't want to go into too much detail, but I understand people's questioning behind that. But here's the reason why I've decided that in this in this juncture, in this junction, the Lord, you know, it moves me to to reach out to him. Then I will. But at this point, I have no desire to do so because the situation was done publicly. Therefore, if you're doing it publicly, I have no reason to have to contact you publicly me privately about this.  This is not a slight. This is not an attack against him or any church like that. You're not going to convince me that you don't know the origin of these things, but you know the origins of everything else that you that you teaching and study on. And the ironic thing about this is we were in, we were embarking into a series on the spirit versus the flesh. Now, I'll just I'll just and this goes into what this goes into what we're talking about tonight. Let me get my receipt file out here. I got a receipt. I got my file called theological. It's just one of them. But I shared this with my wife. She she had she didn't have her copy. I had mine and by God's providence, of course, I was able to the Lord allowed me to recall a particular sermon series just that they were still they were still doing and it's title spirit versus flesh. And this is this was called that he basically did this one on the fleshly person versus the spiritual person. And I found this to be rather interesting. And there's two categories, the fleshly person and the spiritual person, the fleshly person is without the Holy Spirit, the spiritual person is sealed with the Indwelling Holy Spirit and there's scripture references to support each point. The fleshly person is incapable of understanding the word of God and or the Bible. The spiritual person is capable of understanding the word of God and the Bible. The fleshly person rejects the existence and wisdom of God. The spiritual person receives the wisdom of God and knows the mind of Christ. And again, these are all scripture references attached to each point. The four, the fleshly person avoids the people of God. The spiritual person loves and fellowships with the people of God. Number five, the fleshly person is extremely religious to fake gods. The fleshly person is extremely religious to fake gods. Act 1722 is the reference point for that one. The spiritual person is faithful and worships God. Number six, the fleshly person affirms and supports behaviors that violate God's word. The fleshly person affirms and supports behaviors that violate God's word. The spiritual person avoids and disproves works that violate God's word. The fleshly person ignores and avoids the commands of the Bible. The spiritual person lives to seeks to live in conformity to God's word. And lastly, the fleshly person lives according to their emotions and personal desires. The spiritual person lives according to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I can't make this stuff up. I can't make this stuff up. This is in the this is in the sermon notes that he that he handed out to the congregation a couple weeks ago. And the the ironic and interesting thing about this is that some of the bullet points that are in the sermon, he's violating and not only is he violating whether he knows it or not, but he's causing other people to violate it as well too. And this is why James three one tell this not many of you become teachers, my brother, because in doing so, you and I want to encourage the judgment. So again, this is not an attack, but when you or I say things publicly, it is fair game just like we the term fair use even though YouTube does not always honor that. But when it's public, it's fair use. When it's out there, I don't have to go to you and ask you for clarification unless I want to or I can just go by what you say and just go with that. And you can't get offended or we should not be offended or angry because someone does not talk to us privately. I tell people our time that you go to the people privately before you do what you did publicly, most cases you do not. So therefore, no one is obligated to go to you privately about a public matter. Again, it's a it's a courtesy.  It's not demanded by scripture. So hopefully answers the question for those of you who have been wanting to know that. But let's let's let's lay out the foundation and then let's get to these 130 reasons I believe anyone should leave an abusive church. And again, this is not my list. I would give you the link to the list. Shout out to Brother Proverbs for putting me up on this. Good eye. Good looking out. I appreciate that very timely. But let's go ahead and and lay out the foundational text here because I want us to have a foundational basis for what we are talking about on on today. First Peter chapter five first Peter chapter five and verse we'll start at verse one and end at verse and verse five. First Peter chapter five verse one it says therefore I exalt the elders among you as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed shepherd the flock of God among you exercising oversight look not under compulsion but voluntarily according to the will of God and not for sorted gain or for money and and but with eagerness not or nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge. You see that right there. You don't load your authority and it's and it's it listen it's God given authority not loading it over those notice allotted to your charge but proving to be examples to the flock. Calla Carrillo is the word that's used here and it means to have dominion over it means to to exercise authority or to rule over. You're not to you're not to do this you're not to do this sinfully. Now we are not elders are to rule but we are to rule well according to 1st Timothy three one through seven and Titus one five through nine but he says not nor yet as as lording it over those allotted to your charge but proving to be examples to the flock. Verse four and when the chief shepherd appears that we know who that is that's Jesus. When the chief shepherd appears you will receive the unfading crown of glory.  So we talk about abuse when we talk about our authority as leaders as pastors we know that there are abuses in the church. I mean if you've been following this channel and maybe even others been reading reports and others you know that there are abuses in the church and some have been going unchecked for years and then those that are being checked they're being ignored they're being downplayed they're being manipulated into having people to think that is not a big deal. We need to ask ourselves the question why do we see these things reoccur? Why is God allowing these things that have come that have been done in the past to now resurrect and emerge in our present today? I tell you why because when sin has not been dealt with when sin has not been confessed and repented of biblically then what do you expect for God to do? He says he would not be mocked and again we're not talking about perfection so let's let's let's kill the noise on that. Well there's no perfect church no there's not just like there are no perfect parents but we still are to honor our parents we still are to love our parents there's no perfect children but we still to love and protect and provide for our children as long as man is on this terra firma there will never be perfection because we have been affected and infected by sin but that does not minimize and that does not negate the fact that we are called to obedience we're called to live a life that brings glory and honor to God and when we do not do that when we fail to do that we bring this credit we bring this honor to our Lord whom we say that we serve who we say that we represent as his ambassador so let's jump right into this again this is not going to be exhaustive in a sense of me going through each point I do have mine that I want to touch on and and and of course I know you have yours once you see it so uh so let's get right into it this is from the article biblically informed evidence informed trauma informed first a spiritual first aid 130 130 signs of toxic church leadership Jamie Aten Dr. Jamie Aten and and Kent Anon of the authors of this 130 oh I mean geez I mean that many huh yeah 130 130 over the past few years there's been a growing awareness of toxic church leadership within our congregations and institutions unhealthy power dynamics have caused significant pain and harm in both small and mega churches to see change we must first learn how to recognize and address toxic leadership within our congregations we're providing a comprehensive list of 130 signs of toxic church leadership to serve as a tool for Christians to identify and address damaging practices notice not instances practices our churches are meant to be havens for solace support and spiritual growth however the structures that foster a sense of belonging and purpose can also be misused to manipulate control and abuse the signs of toxic church leadership outlined below cover various aspects of church life including leadership styles interpersonal dynamics financial practices and teachings as well as shared experiences of those hurt by toxic church leaders our hope is that by highlighting these red flags we can take action to stop toxic church leadership and even prevent it from happening in the first place and so again these are the co-founders and authors Jamie Aten and Kent Anon let's get it toxic leaders here's the first one the value they value churches reputation over the safety and well-being of his members that's one i got highlighted toxic leaders value the church's reputation over the safety and well-being of his of his members toxic leaders veil their actions and conflicts making them complex to call out toxic leaders tell you other people find you difficult when you disagree ain't that something four toxic leaders have an authoritarian leadership style i mean some of this is already resonating i know i know some of this is already resonating thank you will disorder thank you thank you so much god bless you thank you i appreciate that again toxic leaders have an authoritarian leadership style number five toxic leaders divide people behind the scenes while publicly calling for unity toxic leaders have a lack of transparency and decision-making yeah you know god told me number seven toxic leaders believe loyalty only goes one way and we all know that one way is toward the leader number eight toxic leaders manipulate members through guilt or fear nine toxic leaders display spiritual elitism and a superiority complex ten toxic leaders mistake their manipulations as organizational quote unquote change 11 toxic leaders suppress dissent and critical thinking 12 toxic leaders make bad decisions behind closed doors 13 toxic leaders have an excessive focus on tithing and financial gains i don't think i've done a study or a bible study on tithing i think i will what do y'all think you think i should i want to i don't want to tide y'all or over teach tithing to y'all to death um but i think i i think i need to address this i did a debate with a pastor um years ago and it's on my channel you can go to you can go to my uh sermon audio page moderating you can put it up if you like you can go to my sermon audio page i did a i did a a two-part debate i believe with a pastor on tithing he supported tithing and i didn't he didn't have a biblical case for it and i'll tell you right now most of these pastors matter of fact matter of fact i'll go back maybe we'll track that all of these pastors who support tithing cannot exegetically and biblically defended near one of them they will try but they can't they can't they can't biblically defend this it is indefensible to try to defend something that god has not required you and i to do can i just give you one can i just give y'all just one just one little t-night example on new testament giving can i can i just give you just one thank you i said it in the video and i said now second Corinthians chapter 8 verse 12 Paul writes to the shirt the current we know this talks about the master donors and how they sacrificed and how they gave out of their poverty and things of that nature right but notice what he says notice what he says verse 11 but now finish doing it also so that they're just so that just as there was readiness to desire it so there may be notice that there may be also the completion of it by look at this right here look look at this look at this look at this look at this by your what ability not by mandate not by compulsion by your ability why paul he explains the verse 12 four four if the readiness is present is it is acceptable according to what a person has not according to what he does not have am i making this up or am i just saying what the text says let me give let me give you another one doesn't go to chapter nine verse six and seven now this i say he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart why why not grudgingly oh i just gotta get it me just going to get a little bit no no not grudgingly knowing the compulsion i gotta do this i if i do this is no no no no you're not compelled to do this he says for god loves a cheerful giver and here's a question i ask people all the time when i when i have these discussions with people who support tithing and and and of course that they'll go to malachi they'll go to malachi chapter three yeah i said malachi i know it's malachi but you know malachi i asked the i asked the following question i said i said are you a cheerful giver or are you a fearful giver because if you're using malachi first of all he says bring the whole tithe and then there's more than one type there's three so why y'all why y'all talking about you know tithe when you're still cheating and you're not giving it because it's an obligation for the tax but anyway anyway this one to get y'all a freebie we're going to talk about that later on we're going to talk about that later on but hopefully that will set some people free that you're not required to give something that was never mandated to you and i know i'm going to upset some folk but it is what it is you're not israel okay and israel ain't you now unless you got some vats and some new wine and some url and some produce then do what you want on the thing is you're not you're not doing it the way god tells us to do it but anyway let me get back to this toxic leaders have an excessive focus on tithing and financial gains number 14 in this regard the emotional well-being of members 15 they subtly or especially say others challenging them are not christian enough 16 they attack the values of others publicly but claim that they're just joking 17 misused a toxic leaders misuse scripture to justify abusive behaviors 18 toxic leaders discriminate against certain groups based on gender race age etc 19 toxic leaders make slights insults and even threats in humorous ways 20 toxic leaders display exclusionary practices and clicks within the congregation toxic leaders encourage blind loyalty and submission this is one of my numbers i highlighted 1 4 7 8 9 13 17 20 21 i'm just gonna give you the ones i highlighted and i'll i'll put this up for y'all to read later how about that 22 toxic leaders often send others to do their dirty work hello phil johnson how are you sir i know you're watching i know you're watching uh phil johnson and and at all yeah phil johnson is is is john mcArthur's attack dog talk about john mcArthur phil johnson is coming for you i'm in coming at you and you know he got to get you yeah he coming for you but he won't come from me because i think you know what time it is but anyway 23 toxic leaders structure leadership so that they are unaccountable for their actions 25 toxic leaders take credit for other people's ideas works and efforts hello pass mcgother can anyone say the mcgother study bible can anyone say mcgother commentary anyway 28 toxic leaders over emphasized church hierarchy the pastor said the pastor said you know it's what the pastor say you know he's he's he's the he's the man he's he's the top one he's in charge yeah but supposedly you'd be accountable to elders but anyway 29 toxic leaders create an environment where people are overly worried about saying wrong things about the leadership y'all remember the waska report that was that placed john mcgother in his school on academic probation that was one of the things that they charged it with a culture of intimidation fear and bullying people were afraid to say anything because they're their jobs and their livelihood and careers were at stake who does that and and this whole nda what what christian organization makes people sign a non-disclosure agreement the bible says the wicked flea when no one pursues the bible said let us speak truth to our neighbor what you what you gotta have somebody did to sign a non-disclosure statement for and you're in your church your ministry 31 toxic leaders are unwilling to admit mistakes or apologize again john mcgother to this very day john mcgother now i just thought maybe maybe maybe it's just me maybe it's just me maybe i'm the slow one maybe i'm the one whose syrup ain't coming out the bottle i don't know but i thought church discipline was for those who are unrepentant once sin has been made known and they refuse to deal with it i thought that this is me i thought that that it was the purpose of church discipline that church discipline are for those who are unrepentant who refuse to repent that's what i thought does not mcgother and the elders of grace community church particularly john mcgother does he not apply to this scenario just asking just asking 32 toxic leaders insist others own their mistakes to protect the leader's ego you have people apologizing for something that they didn't even do wrong to protect the pastor what really okay sound suspect to me 33 toxic leaders insist on conformity and obedience toxic leaders insist on conformity and obedience 35 toxic leaders have an unhealthy focus on church growth at the expense of spiritual growth 37 toxic leaders try to control the narrative of conversations you know people come out with facts and they try to act as though your words or you just sounding crazy and try to you know twist you up and have you thinking that you're the one that's loony 40 toxic leaders promote a culture of fear and secrecy man i told you all these these these lists 41 toxic leaders regularly tell you to keep things quote-unquote confidential or quote in the room in quote now these are patterns now these are patterns 42 toxic leaders exploit members for personal gain or power 43 toxic leaders claim disagreements are because others don't have vision 45 toxic leaders outright outright ignore requests for transparency until the problem goes away mmm this thing is just screaming grace community church 48 toxic leaders dismiss or minimize abuse allegations toxic leaders dismiss or minimize abuse allegations 49 toxic leaders believe the rules policies and guidelines apply to everyone but them you know rules for thee but not for me do as i say but not as i do that kind of thing 51 toxic leaders show favoritism and nepotism as standard practice you know hiring your own family members in positions of key leadership and you're getting money you know it's all in the family i ain't talking about archie and either either 56 toxic leaders use fear tactics to maintain control toxic leaders use fear tactics to maintain control 58 toxic leaders discourage open dialogue and questioning 60 toxic leaders discredit or silence former members y'all thought it was just dragonfly silence silence nope mm-hmm that happens in churches too 62 toxic leaders misuse church funds and resources 63 toxic leaders are spiritually abusive and manipulate and manipulate toxic leaders spiritually abuse and manipulate 67 toxic leaders label anyone who questions leadership as divisive i mean where have we heard these statements from y'all man 69 toxic leaders overemphasize the authority of the pastor or leader 70 toxic leaders display a lack of support for victims of abuse within the church toxic leaders display a lack of support for victims of abuse within the church 71 toxic leaders encourage a victim blaming mentality yeah eileen gray it was her fault that she got placed on the church discipline because she didn't go back to her abusive abusive pedo husband yeah that's why she was put out right it's her fault it's not the church's fault it's hers according to the fanboys and single fans 89 toxic leaders post cryptic yet targeted messages on social media i have a true story to tell y'all want to hear thank you i was attending a church here in in houston in the houston area called founders baptist church the pastor loves him some john macarthur and i mean l uh l u h if you get the l o v e s no he loved him some john macarthur so much so when the babeline b did a did a piece on john macarthur you know being never being wrong he took he took serious umbrage with that and said that the babeline b was in sin for for doing a piece on on john macarthur never mind babeline b is known for doing pieces on pretty much anybody that's within trending range and so nonetheless pastor took issue with it and then he also took issue with me because i called john macarthur pragmatic although he did a sermon himself john macarthur did called the dangers of pragmatism and all i did was say well wait a minute why why are you flipping the script on things that you want to do first you were talking about donald trump like a dog and then you said you voted for donald trump and i'm just like okay i mean but isn't that pragmatic on the reason why you said that you voted for him and the pastor inboxed me he deemed me and told me that i was wrong for publicly attacking an elder i say wow so i said all i said in the tweet was no one is above no one is above uh a rebuke or correction for being pragmatic when it's unnecessary not even john macarthur and he told me basically uh that i needed to be careful my words about john macarthur because i needed to treat him like my dad and i said well certainly tell me something brother uh if my dad had said something wrong i would say my dad is wrong respectfully and i came from his learns so if i can do that by my own father when he's wrong about something respectfully you know first timothy five you know appeared to them as you know to the oldest as as the age as as a father right doesn't mean that they can't be wrong doesn't mean that i can't see that they are wrong but this man idolizes and basically worshiped the macarthur soul to where he told me as long as i am under his under his authority then i need to do what i am told to do and i said and there is the problem and then when he said that i handed him my membership withdrawal letter you can ask him my wife she she can tell you yes that's what he wanted to say watching watching mouth little boy that's what that's that's what he wanted to say that's what he wanted to say he sure wanted to say it because he said as long as you are under my authority and when he said that oh that's okay here you go i'm not anymore so what you're not going to do is tell me what i can and can't say on my page as long as i'm not sitting we're not playing them games not at all and that was that was man shoot seven eight maybe years ago my wife was good with timelines it's 2023 now i think baby what 2017 give or take i think maybe but nonetheless i was out i tapped out so you know let me get my fandom get about it anybody play them games and and and then he said an assignment and this is why this is why number 89 is is such a you know resonate with me because you know some preachers with they'll they'll throw shots across the bow of their pulpit you know they'll throw rocks or shoot across the bow at people you know because they got the pulpit you know like Michael Krug and his book bully pulpit talks about they'll target you and try to put you in check across the pulpit behind the pulpit he said in a sermon that when i see this with his words when i see people on social media attacking john macarthur and talking about john macarthur his words with this let's tell me y'all y'all thought the five percenter y'all thought the five percenter y'all y'all thought the five percent of steve lawson was something mm-hmm this man said when i see people that try to attack john macarthur on social being nobody was attacking him but he said he considered that as an attack when i see people on on uh social media attack john macarthur and make statements about john macarthur a man who they couldn't even tie his shoes do y'all hear me i see what in the john the baptist chapter what is what i mean what in the john and the baptist is going on here he said it i wish i wish i can i wish i can cue the audio but the man said it he said those who come at john macarthur couldn't even tie his shoes ain't lying the idolatry ladies and gentlemen runs deep trying to tell y'all so yes 89 toxic leaders post cryptic yet targeted messages on social media 90 target i mean uh uh toxic leaders ignore or dismiss scientific evidence and reason about conspiracy theories hello g craig lewis anyway i had to say that he he oh my gosh boy boy boy 95 toxic leaders expect everyone to follow their rules oh yeah 101 and again i'll put this list in the description uh below at the end of the live toxic leaders surround themselves with those who won't disagree with them toxic leaders surround themselves with those who won't disagree with them why because they don't pay the bills it doesn't pay the bills it won't get them invited to the next shepherd's conference or the next g three conference if you disagree with the flavor of the month or in some cases of the of the century huh yeah toxic leaders surround themselves with those who won't disagree with them why is it that vody bachem phil johnson steve lawson justin peters conrad and bayway virgin walker delbernard harrison tom buck taut frio the list goes on and on and on why aren't these men publicly disagreeing with what they know is wickedness that's going on it's the again it's easy to the swing at the low hanging fruit it is so easy it is easy to swipe and to pick off low hanging fruit it's easy to talk about jesse the plant is then it is to talk about john macArthur hello it's easy to talk about creflo dollar then it is to talk about john macArthur it's easy to talk about strange fire then it is to talk about the shepherd's conference it's easy to talk about a man who has a jet then a man who has three homes from lying about work that he did off the backs of other people it's easy to do that oh you're not gonna like this live but i don't care because i'm not here for you i'm here for the remnant it's easy it's easy 111 excuse me 110 toxic leaders value loyalty to the church over commitment to truth and personal integrity shout out to brother han cho because he valued loyalty to the truth that's what he valued he valued loyalty to the truth even to the point to where as when they gave him an ultimatum wouldn't harm him to decide let me get my grip and get a body here then i don't i don't have to pray about this i don't have to lay on my face and turn toward the east to ask for god to give me direction and wisdom on this now you're gonna tell me either uh retract the investigation that you all asked me to give and to and to conduct regarding a 20 year situation that y'all dropped the ball that y'all screwed up on and then i tell you about it you don't like that you don't like the the the findings and you're telling me i need to i need to run that back i need to drop it on the words of john mcgroth i need to forget it or else find another job okay see a person who has personal integrity and committed to truth they don't have to they don't have to take time and and and contemplate what they're gonna do because they already know truth has already been jeopardized there are no truth has been compromised so they chuck deuce and they out number 11 toxic leaders hire others with questionable backgrounds and scandals i mean i i don't consider mike todd to be a spiritual godly leader but he's a leader nonetheless with air quotes so him having carlence on board it shouldn't surprise us again that is low hanging fruit ladies and gentlemen some stuff i just i'm like why i why do i even address it it's low hanging fruit to me but notice these are the people that cater up and barian babes who are now called buffoon babes but these are the people that that are quick to go over and just talk about the the charismatic and and the and the word of faith and the paganese and all of that they're they're easy to go at them but but they won't go at the obvious this right in your face targets they won't go they won't address that because they won't get invited to the reindeer games but toxic leaders hire others with questionable backgrounds and so when you have a person like david gray being sent elsewhere and you know that his background is riddled with scandal and you try to cover that up or or you keep people on board your team your leadership team and you tell the daughter who sexually assaulted who was sexually assaulted by their dad we will continue to keep him on our on our staff even after the fact that's a toxic leader 116 toxic leaders dismiss the importance of financial accountability and stewardship you know again my mind just goes back to the wasca report my mind goes back to the efca that that grace withdrew their name from again the bible says the wicked flea when no one pursues but the righteous are bold as a lion if you have nothing to hide there's no reason to run 117 toxic leaders want all messaging to go through them and won't let you represent yourself this is another one that that's key to me my wife can my wife can identify with this and she remember this one this happened to us twice twice twice first time it happened was at the church that i was a pastor i had i was a young adult pastor and i talked about the story but for the second time i'm gonna just you know give you the the cliff notes to it the pastor at this church was trying to cover up the sin of a young lady who was stealing credit cards the young lady came to me told me that she was feeling guilty about about a sermon that i was dealing with and i was teaching on uh i guess about repentance and whatever and she said she felt convicted and came to me crying and saying that she was you know that she's been stealing credit cards from her job and from customers and this and that and what should she do well you know what i told her i see you gotta make it right you have to go back and tell you know i may get fired yeah it's possible yeah and depending on the amount you may even go to jail and then her conviction turned into mm-hmm i don't know about that i mean i'm convicted but i ain't convicted convicted and so she went behind me and uh went to the pastor pastor called me to his office got to my witness called me to his office and told me we're not gonna do that and i said we're not going to do what i said we're not you know not going to have her to go to her employer and tell them that because she's already in a bad relationship with her parents and she uh she she needs to just you know not do it again i said okay all right well i already told you and i already said what i needed to say and on top of other things and other scanners out being covered up i decided to leave and when i decided to leave i left and since i was a part of a ministry that people knew me i i said well i'm leaving i can't allow you know my convictions to be compromised and it's just time for me to go and that's what i did right i left i left and when i left the church had a meeting about yours truly and it would not allow me to represent myself but called themselves that the pastor did the pastor and the elders called themselves representing me but they're not allowed me to come to the meeting to let people know why i'm leaving and so the scuttlebutt was oh brother woods left because he just couldn't submit he refused to submit to church leads now notice notice not that i couldn't deny refused to submit i refused to submit to pastor someone sells leadership i said oh so you're doing it like that huh i said all right so ironically of all places i contacted the pastor on duty at grace community church how many of you have have ever called back in the day i'm not sure if you still do it now i don't but back in the day when i did not know about all the scandals and issues that were going on i contacted i would call grace community church for council i mean and during that time it was it was it was helpful to me and i explained to them the situation as best as i as best as i could and i remember that pastor telling me he said well based on what you're telling me he said and of course i'm just going off of what you're telling me brother i said no problem i said i have no problem give you the name of the church i attend he said that's fine he said but i i just want to make sure that you understand if what you're telling me is this then what they're doing to you is slander and he said to me he said you it you have the responsibility and the duty to protect your name because if your name is being slander and reputation is being dragged to the mud then you have every biblical right to defend yourself he said so what i would do this is what he told me he said what i would do and this is during the time we didn't have there wasn't you didn't have emails i had fax numbers and so he said if i were you i would get the number to everyone who has a fax machine and i would i would fax them your reasons why you decided to leave and i would lay it out in detail i said no problem and i laid out a 10 i think it was a 10 page seven to 10 page letter and i gave it to everybody and i mean everybody that was a member or that was a part of that meeting and um and ironically it's this is the same church that not your typical negro try to use to say that i had a restraining order against me i don't have a restraining order against me see that's my point these people these people tried to to destroy my name and had i not done that and just left and not said anything i'll let myself open to all kinds of of attacks but this first church this first church that i that i left would not allow me to represent myself they they caught us up representing myself for me they represented themselves for me uh and that was the first one second church my son was was uh sexually assaulted by one of the pastor's daughters and we tried to deal with that situation biblically the pastors and the leadership refused to so of course we left they had another meeting this church had a meeting about us there i'm like what is this a repeat what is this a this a playbook on how not to deal with sin what is this they had a meeting up i had a meeting about us and their um and their um i'm gonna i guess you can call it fellowship hall and one of the fellowship halls and people was like well what happened to brother seiko and sister shan why why why aren't they here why can't we hear the well we just we just feel this best for them not to be here because we didn't want to have any conflict i'm like wow so basically i make my point is this this was toxic leadership they would not allow you the toxic leaders would not allow you to represent yourself when you need to defend your integrity you're in your character yeah uh 121 toxic leaders use religious language to justify or excuse abusive behavior 128 toxic leaders shame and punish others in the church who raise concerns or speak out about leadership these those are ones that i just have highlighted again i'm pretty sure you all have yours once you get this uh list again i will put it in the in the link below or brother proverbs you can do it yourself if you like if you hear brother you can put the the link in the uh in the chat and i'll post it in the in the video description below uh as well that's not a problem i know some of y'all thought i was gonna be here all night nope no not for that not for that not for that but my question is i put up a poll i put up a poll um earlier today and i had um i asked a question i said based on the list based on the list now that you've heard it do you believe that your church identifies as a toxic church do you believe your church identifies as a toxic church i mean if this is no now i'm not talking about this is one time they did something in it you know it was brought to the attention now this is a pattern of behavior this is something that they do okay um and only you can answer that question i can't answer that question for you only you can answer that question for yourself but what i'm about to share with you all this is this is for the sake of emphasis this is for the sake of emphasis and i'm gonna shut it down with after this i keep seeing on social media i'm not sure if my sister is here uh i thought i saw her a minute ago where'd she go uh i think she's gone i thought i saw her in here erin oh there yeah yeah sister erin erin hardy she probably knows because i i know she's she's on twitter she's in them twitter streets a lot but i keep i keep seeing a a a pattern and a trend among among these groups of men uh josh boys verger walker darryl benard harrison tom buck you know the the group the the group the people who go out of their way to praise jama graffit go out of their way to talk about how great the shepherd's conference is and and and all i'm saying is this and i'm and i'm sincerely yet seriously asking this simple question what do you do when a pastor protects pedophiles and abusers of men and women and put out those who have been abused by them and they refuse to repent what what do you do or how should you respond to people who knowingly knowingly cape cover and defend a person like john macarthur who protected and continues to protect abusers what kind of abusers let's let's have a little history and what i'm about to read to you all listener discretion is advised listener discretion is advised i am um i'm going to cite this text again Ephesians chapter five verse 11 do not participate in the unfruit for deeds of darkness but instead even expose them why for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret first Corinthians chapter five verse nine maybe this doesn't apply to john macarthur apparently he's above the sacred scriptures verse nine first Corinthians five i wrote to you in my letter not to associate with immoral people i did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world or with the covetous and swindlers or with idolaters for then you would have to go out of the world you know idolaters were all up at the shepherds conference it was all up in there earlier this month again i was waiting for reform i was waiting for reform panties to drop that's what i was waiting for i was waiting for somebody i was waiting for i was waiting for us to come out i was waiting for that's what i was waiting for somebody to this is for you you you my number one i went for somebody to do that i was waiting for somebody to just come on out and throw the reform panties the the the the cavernistic camisoles i was waiting for it that's what i was waiting for because that's all i was seeing i mean you you got you got the five percent himself steve loson saying that five percent of mcgoth is is is worth more than the whole evangelical word put together then near the end you had one man at the man at the end preaching i forgot his name but he said hey oh well but then then then you know steve loson said that also the same the same little speech 40 000 men couldn't couldn't replace it would take 40 now you say it would take 40 000 40 000 but that ain't idolatry and this is a pattern by the way paul says i didn't all mean with the amor people of this world over the coverages and swindlers and idolaters for then you would have to go out of the world he says but actually i wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he isn't a moral person or coverages or an idolatry or a reviler or a drunkard or a swindler not even to eat with such a one paul says you better not even break a biscuit with somebody who's doing this and they refuse to repent that's what that's what the bible says verse 12 says for what have i to do with judging outsiders why we why we constantly talking about the world and i mean i'm not saying we can't we can't you know talk about some things that that's simple but we got enough stuff going on in the church paul says what have i to do with judging outsiders do you not judge those who are within the church but those who are outside god judges remove the wicked man from among yourself so so i guess macArthur ain't wicked i know strong words but that's what the bible says uh what is what is what is what is macArthur guilty of i know what is what does he do wrong i'll tell you right here here's one right here right there he's a reviler false accuser you falsely accuse a woman of abuse i mean you falsely accuse a woman of not submitting to her husband you falsely accuse a woman for doing something that she didn't do it was a man who did it you wanted her to go back to an abuser and because she didn't then you told you told the the congregation that she may not even be a believer she might even be saved while putting money on the books of the pedophile who y'all found out was a pedophile after he got convicted you may not have known he was one at the time but when you found out you put money on the man's books and try to cover that up until you get exposed for that and still have not rescinded have not to this very day rescinded eileen gray's excommunication i'm wondering if david gray was able to to be released would he still be a member would he still be in good standing would he be able to come back to gray's community shirt because there's no public excommunication of david gray y'all i just want y'all to know that there is no public excommunication of david gray to this very day do y'all hear me but there is one for eileen gray unjustly john mcgroth is guilty of being a reviola i know i know i know we don't want to call him that but that's what he is he's unrepentant he should be disqualified he should not be pastor into more but i know i know anyway let's go back let's go back so i have here my hands the court document we all remember this my question is simply this this is the kind of men that y'all want to steal support at the conferences that y'all go to and give money to and support their ministries while they protect and cape for a man who supported an abuser and later to be found a pedophile and that's just one that's just one i'm not even talking about paul gway right now and his daughter wendy that he sexually assaulted and and john mcgroth wrote her a letter acknowledging what he did was wrong but still wanted to keep this man on staff but hey but these are the people that virgil and and and others and and reason why i'm mentioning these names because maybe the church need to be putting pressure on these people because i've been trying to get in contact with jason witlock for a minute i'm trying to find out bro do you have do you know who who you have around you that are supporting and caping for pedophile supporters and pedophile defenders my bible says bad company corrupts good character absolutely doxing joe julie roiz absolutely i'm just i'm just serious with this question and i'll let y'all go but i got i got to read something and again this is going to be disturbing but these are court documents that some of you may not have heard but some of us need to be reminded of these are the kind of people that john mcgrother is caping for and being caked for and in information page two of the court documents in the court of appeal of the state of california second appellate court district four the people versus david grant gray page two quote in an information filed by district attorney of l.a county appellate was charged with 10 felony counts alays who have been committed against his three minor children their information alays that appellate committed the following five offenses alays who have been committed between december 22nd 2000 and december 21st 2001 against blank i'm not going to mention that even the initials but against blank lewd act against the child under 14 years of age counts one and three forcible lewd act upon a child under 14 years of age count two dissuading a witness by force or threat count seven aggravated sexual assault oral copulation oral copulation of a child under 14 years of age by a person more than 10 years older count nine the information alays that appellate committed the following two offenses against blank forcible lewd act upon a child under 14 years of age committed between september 15th 2000 and july 1st 2001 count four an aggravated sexual assault of a child under 14 years of age by a person more than 10 years older committed between december 22nd 2000 and december 21st 2001 count 10 as the counts one through four it was specifically alleged that blank and blank were both under 14 years of age and that the appellate engaged in substantial sexual conduct with each the information also alleged that appellate committed the following three offenses against blank on or about may 10th 2001 causing and permitting blank under circumstances likely to produce great bodily harm and death to suffer and be inflicted with unjustifiable physical pain and mental suffering willfully and unlawfully inflicting cruel and inhumane corporal punishment and injury resulting in a traumatic condition upon a child count six and dissuading a witness by force or threat count eight i'm just going through the counts appellate pleaded not guilty and denied the special allegations the jury returned the following guilty verdicts and special findings counts one through three and nine counts five and six the jury found appellate not guilty on both counts of dissuading a witness on both counts as to blank counts four and ten the the trial court sentenced appellate to state prison for a determinate midterm of six years on count one plus a consecutive term of 15 years to life on count nine what is count nine you may ask in case you forgot what count nine was was give him which gave him 15 years to life consecutively aggravated sexual assault oral copulation of a child under 14 years of age by a person more than 10 years older that was what count nine which gave him 15 years consecutively page page five this is who macarthur was caping for this is who this is who virgin walker and daryl and vody and and and and steve lawson and and phil johnson all of them because they know about this case they they know about it and like i said in the other video what if this was your child or your grandbaby or your niece or your your nephew what would you do virgin what would you do daryl what would you do vody what would you do men of god quote wife testified that over the years appellate would lie on the living room couch or on his bed or in his bed in his underwear and he would tell the girls to lie with him he often had the girl sitting or lying on top of him or giving him a massage wife told the girls not to do that anymore blank would ask wife why does daddy keep calling me to his bed wife urged appellant to at least wear boxer shorts but he refused blank once asked wife why is daddy's penis pointy at the end wife confronted appellant and asked if he had exposed himself to blank but he refused to answer her page eight during a monitored visit in february 2003 blank was sitting on appellant's lap and became very upset saying he bit her on the ear after that incident all the children seemed to act up a lot more and more aggressively negative toward appellant in may 2003 four or five days after a visit with appellate blank was crying and upset for longer than usual for over two hours saying she was afraid of appellant and saying that he was going to kill her blank then told the wife that he made me suck on his bottom right here and touched her mother's crotch wife thought that there must be a misunderstanding and said what are you talking about his bottom is back here blank said no right here mommy her mother asked what she meant and blank started talking about it she said his peepee was hard like wood like the ceiling fan he put it in my mouth he made me suck on him i didn't like it it tasted like a frog that's alive it tasted like dirty dust it was yucky she said he's going to kill me because i told you previously blank had frequently asked i'm excuse me had frequently said to wife i don't like daddy's secrets i don't trust his secrets on cross examination wife said that blank's first statement to her was quote he made me suck on his peepee end quote blank revealed more the following day indicating that it happened more than one time wife did not ask blank to describe appellant's penis as quote she was already spouting that out end quote during august 2003 while at the evaluator's office blank confronted appellant in front of blank about the sexual abuse a monitor was present but wife was not within a week blank told wife that he had been also sexually abused he said quote you know that peepee thing that happened to blank daddy made me suck on his peepee end quote she did not believe him and asked him if he was just saying that just because he heard that happened to blank and he and he became upset and argumentative blank then drew a picture in his pain book in his pain book pa in book and said to her blank it said to her excuse me quote then why did he go potty in my tummy it made my tummy hurt end quote blank testified page 10 that when she was five years old appellant made her suck on his penis on three occasions she thought these incidents occurred on three second consecutive days the first time appellant woke up woke her up excuse me from a nap by calling her into his bedroom she went into his bedroom and he pulled down his pants and told her to suck on his potty place and at the bottom of the footnote it says blank also referred to his penis as his quote peepee place appellant still had a shirt on and laid down on his back on his bed blank was on her stomach she described his potty place as sort of pinkish and hard and she had and she said appellant was making noises after what seemed like a long time appellant quote potted in her mouth end quote it tasted quote like a live frog end quote and was quote wet end quote and yucky quote end quote appellant told her to go spit it out and she did so in the bathroom sink appellant then said that if blank told anybody he would choke her and he would put his hands on her neck and choked her a little quote end quote blank did not tell anybody what happened because she was scared and thought he would really choke her her mother and siblings were not home when this took place on the third occasion blank was again napping when appellant called her in his into his bedroom when she got there he put his pants down and told her to suck on his peepee place she tried to get away but he put his hand on the back of her head and pushed her head to his potty place it hurt her and she felt funny again her mother and siblings were not at home after appellant was no longer living with the family and they had moved out of the house where the sexual abuse occurred blank knew she was safe and told her mother that appellant had made that appellant had made her suck on his peepee place blank was blank years old at the time i'm not gonna mention the age of this at this time anymore blank denied that anyone had told her to say that appellant made her suck on his peepee place and she affirmed that she was telling the truth about what had happened blank was born in 1998 at the time of trial blank testified that when appellant was living with the family appellant sometimes hit him on the feet with the belt his mother also hit him sometimes with her hand and other times with what she called a rod blank also stated that appellant once dragged him from his bedroom and to the living room and forced blank to suck on appellant's peepee blank said that appellant was kneeling and he was standing in front of him and that appellant pushed his head down on his peepee at a prior hearing blank had said that appellant was standing and blank was kneeling he described appellant's peepee as being soft and said after a while his father peepeed in his mouth and and blank swallowed the peepee blank later said that appellant's peepee got hard a little bit when the peepee came out appellant told blank to rinse his mouth out and sent him back into his bedroom appellant told blank don't tell mommy blank's mother was not home at the time but he thought his sisters were in the bedroom blank said that he decided to tell his mom about appellant making him suck on his peepee place after he heard blank tell her mother that she had been made to do so he said that he had remembered the incident but had not wanted to say anything about it until he heard blank talking about it at the prior hearing he has said quote I forgot I forgot until I heard blank talk about it and if y'all can still follow these men don't follow me don't follow me because I'm questioning whether or not John McArthur is saved yeah I said it my bible says treat him like a like a so-called brother and then what the bible says is right there look at it verse 11 but actually I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person or covetous or an idolater or a reviler or drunkard or a swindler not even to eat with such a one this is who McArthur is defending and been defending and he's been defending people like David Gray for years but if you're going to continue to follow people like Virgil Walker and and and Daryl Bernard Harrison and y'all going to go to their conferences and go support their ministries and and support subscribe to their podcast and you know these men know this you know these men know this you got people going going to prison doing time for being associated in the car being in the car with somebody and he hasn't even done done the crime you got people in jail aiding and abetting felons you got people being charged for obstructing justice because they won't tell and they know and and the law enforcement officers and people know that they know that these people are guilty but but these men won't protect the innocent the women the children the babies the little ones who jesus said can I can I go to one more text and I'll let y'all go Matthew 18 verse 6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble it will be better for them to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck and be drowned in the depth of the sea woe to the world verse 7 because of the stumbling blocks for it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come but a woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes but y'all go and continue to keep keeping for these people go right ahead go right ahead and you can tell them I said it I ain't hard to find not hard to find at all these people have been trying to destroy the reputation of Julie Royce because Julie Royce has been exposing a wolf and those who provide safe havens for wolves and I have zero respect and I mean zero respect the John McArthur Phil Johnson and the crew and anybody that defends and capes for them I don't care who you are Bible something wing that is a is a suck up and that and that's putting it nicely all I'm saying is what would you do if that was your daughter your grandbaby your niece your little cousin what would you do if you say you would do nothing just as weak and just as much of a coward as these men are I will continue to expose I will continue to call these people out until the Lord tells me enough is enough whenever the opportunity or whenever it necessitates for me to call these people out I'm gonna do it same way I did with G Craig Lewis no different same way they were Marcus Rogers no different I'm just wondering why people are not putting pressure on these men to do what's right I would not be seen if I was Vodibhaka I would not be seen in any conference that I know John McArthur is hosting because I don't mind good to be able to spoken of but these are some of the same men that if you took a picture with Benny Hanna if you took a picture with Creflo Dalla if you or if you spoke at Creflo's church or his conference they would rake you over the coals costy hand where you at where you at that's what I want to know again the low hanging fruit got people apologizing for calling out wrong like I said y'all like I said maybe we need to be reminded of how wicked the men that John McArthur has been protecting and the quote-unquote preachers that are protecting John McArthur from being accountable and dealt with for protecting these kinds of wicked men judgment begins in the house of God first y'all that's all I'm saying judgment begins in the house of God so I'm done um yeah please like the video share the video let people know about this channel if you could please I would really appreciate it if you'd like to support this ministry you can do so by clicking the donation links below at the bottom of the video and as you see tick it across the screen we really appreciate that if you do so by cash app I mean by Super Chat some people have been saying has been you know issues with them having that credit or deducted from their to their account to ours so again we have been encouraging people to use the the 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you do do all to the glory out of god outside probably hey how's it going good good good where's my thing still on hold on this thing is still not in