It's time for Matt geek up and our opening quick tip comes from me. I noticed this week My wife went and turned on what we call our lizard lamp, which is actually the lamp that's in our lizards tank And she it's normally on a timer, right? But it's it's a it's a Wi-Fi enabled lamp.  Let's try something and I told the a lady Turn off lizard lamp in two hours and she replied I will turn it off in two hours Amazing unfortunately Siri says that she can't do such things And you have to actually go in and like build a schedule and it won't just do it ad hoc But if you got the a lady or the g-lady you can do that more tips like this plus your questions answered today on Mackie gab 969 for Monday, February 20th, 2023 Hey folks and welcome to Mackie gab the show where we share tips like that We take your questions. We try to answer them We share a cool stuff found both from you and from us We put it all together into an agenda that tries to make sense and maybe keep some things Topically and thematically organized such that it makes it easy and fun For every single one of us including us your hosts You know me and Pete and John Every single one of us learns at least five new things every single time we get together Sponsors for this episode include yeah, and sometimes Pete will play that that sound when we learn something especially important Sponsors for this episode include LinkedIn comm slash MGG where you can go and post your first job for free factor meals comm slash MGG 60 where you can go and get 60% off your first box of Ready-to-heat-and-eat meals you cook them in just two minutes and collide at KOL IDE comm slash MGG Device security that uses slack and some new stuff that they wanted that that we're going to be able to tell you about So we have more to talk about in-depth about each of those a little bit later in the episode for now Here in Durham, New Hampshire. It's Dave Hamilton. I'm Dave Hamilton Here in Fairfield, Connecticut. This is shot of front in here from Memphis today is Pilot Pete and I hesitate to talk about the weather because you know no one cares and it's a podcast and it's passed anyway But you won't really hesitate. Yeah, not that much, but it's 38 degrees here It's fully 20 degrees colder in Memphis today than it is in New England. So oh, yeah. Yeah, it's it's over 50 here for sure Yeah, fascinating. We're recording this on on Friday as we usually do John I am I'm so proud of myself that I made sure that you were not muted when you said hello to everybody for the first time but as the sysop here I I do reserve the right to Well the power anyway, I don't know if I reserve the right But I certainly have the power to mute people and speaking of what's a sysop Dave Sysop is the term we used to use in the bulletin board days for system operator and I I chose that term because Earlier this week earlier last week depending on when you're listening We said happy 45th anniversary To the launch of the first computer bulletin board system computer bulletin board systems are where John and I met Not quite 45 years ago, but not much much more recently than that Yeah, not much less. Yeah But yeah, CBBS in Chicago launched on February 16th 45 years ago and Yeah, it's where John and I met they were Essentially what we would we would call the precursor to an internet chat forum Where you is generally speaking it was one person could connect at a time because we weren't using the internet from our homes the internet barely existed at least as we know it today and The seeds of it existed perhaps it's better way to say it But but to connect with each other as just regular old civilians We used our modems to dial up using our phone lines. So Screaming at 300 Bodd, baby. Yeah 1200 is where I started but but yeah Yeah, I was sort of late to the game in in that it got all the way to like 9000 or something and well you got you went from 1200 I think you could do 56 Okay, okay. Yeah, there was 56k, but then there were 115 to ways that you could like Go in one direction. I remember that but I like that was right about the time that I We all started moving to like I moved to an ISD n-line and then very quickly after that to a cable modem and you know after the races But remember that I feel like there was a 115 to modem. Yeah, but remember Three or four minutes When you were screaming fast, it was three or four minutes to get a one megabyte file. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah I remember downloading, you know, what what by today's standards would be super tiny and you know it taking 20 minutes or something Yeah, yeah Yeah, crazy. Anyway, that's that's for us. That's where it started. So I just wanted to To acknowledge that birthday. Yeah, and there were some other Systems that popped up in the area the two that I remember so one it was was called Diversa dial Well, and it basically let you it would turn your computer Mac or otherwise into a multi-user chat system And you had to put in one modem for each line that you had and of course you had to pay for those phone lines, which And the other was our friend Steve actually wrote his own system Multi-user chat system. It was on a PDP. I think PDB computer that I think his boss threw away. Yeah, those are sort of those are sort of the anomalies the exceptions to the rule of Of it being one person at a time, but yeah seeing those things Really made it clear that people wanted to be able to interact in real time with each other and obviously we've you know, we've come We've come full circle and then some on that so so back in the 80s. Remember there were about 75 area codes in the country and now there's dozens and dozens more. Why because everybody was getting second lines Yeah, their computer. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, ran out of IP addresses as it were Yeah, exactly kind of yeah. Yeah. Well and back in those days Kids you can IP address Well and kids you can ask your parents actually had to pay for a long distance unless unless Don't get caught Let's move on to Some questions here. Well, wait, wait, there was one. Oh one other thing actually one very quick thing file sharing was broken for a lot of people in Ventura 13.2 Upgrade to Ventura 13.2.1 which came out within the last week here That will solve that problem. So if you were having file sharing issues and lots of people were 13.2.1 fixes that so That's the that's what I that's what I have to say and and now john you want to take us to our first question from listener james absolutely so James has a very good question Um, there is a website that I would like to prevent from ever loading and I cannot find out how to do it running macOS 13.2.1 and safari 16.3 When I search google, I do find how to do it on older versions of macOS and safari But not the newer versions. I had not wanted to do this on older versions and with the system settings change in ventura I have not been able to find where to make the change um Your help would be appreciated and yes, I feel your pain because I I Was googling about And most of the instructions on how to do this say oh, yeah, go to parental controls. It's like it's not there anymore So I found a newer article, but anyways, here is the long and twisted path to doing this system settings screen time content and privacy content restrictions access to web content Limit adult websites customize Oh And if you put a site in there If you try to go to it, it says you can't go here Huh, but yeah, I mean Let's not make it too obvious where this is. Yeah Wow so Nice find I when I You know when I first when you first started talking about it here. I'm like, there's there's like I started thinking about other ways of solving this problem And and yet the the way Listener James wanted to actually exist Huh, yeah, that's fascinating. Mine would have been like open dns or something like that Right, you know some in in perfect Scenario, but it sort of gets us there, right? Yeah Huh I like it. Yeah, and then our uh chat room, which is at mechagap.com slash discord I think uh, yeah, that'll get you there. Yeah um Also tn papa suggests Modifying your host's file. There's a way you can modify your host's file. Oh So that certain Domains or addresses go into the bit bit bucket Oh, yeah, well the other question becomes Hang on Pete while you're formulating your thought I just I just want to share if you want to modify your host's file I put a link in the show notes. It tells you how to do this the file lives at slash etc slash hosts And you would do this most likely from the terminal or you could do it other ways But um, but I put a link in the show notes for anybody that wants to experiment with that But yeah, that would be one way of doing it. Yeah, okay Yeah, so my question was so I'm playing with buttons a little bit here So I may have missed it if he stated it but you're doing that on an admin account So I'm assuming other accounts on the computer are then affected and wouldn't be able to go into the settings and change The load the if they're not admin accounts. Yes. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, good point. Okay. Yeah, yeah and then uh, also tea and papa in our chat suggests using uh next dns I I this is my first time. I think my first time hearing them next dns It is entirely possible that we've actually that I've actually talked about it on the show But it doesn't seem like I have this is interesting. It's it's It's exactly that and more so Yeah, interesting. All right. Well, we'll put a link to that in the show notes I'm looking at what the pricing is you can do it for free for 300 000 queries a month Which might be enough Or depending on the size of your network. So yeah, cool. I love learning this kind of this is why this I like I always feel like I always feel super selfish because I feel like I'm the one that learns the most doing this show because Because because I'm like Involved in everything. So I sort of like by by nature of of running the agenda I have to absorb it all and that that makes me really fortunate. Yeah next dns next dns. There it is. Yeah Cool any more on that John or is it uh time to move on? Uh, someone mentioned open dns Uh, yeah, does open dns I thought they were becoming more corporate. Are they I haven't used it in a long time. I used it early on to keep the kids from going to, you know, sites and that kind of stuff But I know okay, so they still have their home their home products. Yeah family shield and open dns home Yeah, so another another good stat that that was actually the first thing I was thinking of Pete when when we uh You know when we when we had when we started this this thread, but I was like, I don't know if that still exists Yeah, and then the other thing um because I can throw another link in here, right is uh listen notes dot com That's how you search for content in a given podcast. Wasn't that the website listen notes? Yes To go back to Jeff told us about that a while ago. Yes Did we mention next dns and you should be a way to find that in Yeah, I mean the way I would search for it is just by going to mac ekeb.com Because our search engine is so good now Yeah, it's better. Yeah, look for look for next dns and know nothing comes up So we probably would have put it in the show notes if we talked about it. So yeah, there you go But you're right. Listen notes is a great way to search podcasts. Yeah, so that's now in the show notes too at mac geekab.com or if you want to go directly there remember mg.fm slash episode number gets you there. So mg.fm slash 969 we'll get you there and we will get you to listener roy Who has a question Since I recently bought a new mac mini and my five and eight gigabyte c gate hard drives are starting to fill up Could you briefly explain the different types of hard drives and which? Hard drives or a complete hard drive system you recommend for time machine backups and external data backups so There are lots of different ways to go and and I don't think I think there are many right ways to go For me for time machine. I find that a direct attached drive is is best in that it's most reliable time machine the technology gets kind of wonky Connecting to a drive over a network and that was even true when apple was making network drives like the time capsule Which was literally built for time machine time machine doesn't There's no smarts In it to keep from like having a network drop cause corruption or things like that So when if you do wind up with a drop in in your connection for whatever reason to your drive The backup can get corrupted pretty easily that happens a whole lot less when the drive is connected directly. So Any but but in my opinion any drive that you're going to attach to your mac is going to be fine Obviously ssds are faster, but of course more expensive on a dollars per gigabyte scale What I see most often from listeners and and people I talk with Is that most folks are buying, you know, what I'll call inexpensive bus powered drives to use for time machine And I can't stress this next part enough It is simplest to dedicate an entire drive to time machine time machine will fill up whatever you give it Yes, you can compartmentalize things and apfs Makes that even easier if you didn't know here's your bonus quick tip, you know, you can go into disc utility And create different volumes. I'm not calling them partitions intentionally because they're no longer partitions You can create different volumes on a drive and and with apfs you can specify What the maximum amount of storage a given volume is able to have you can even set minimum storage is very cool So you can do that and get some big mondo drive that you use for time machine But time machine will fill up whatever you give it.  That's not necessarily a good thing So often I've often run time machine On a drive that is exactly the same size as my boot drive. So a one terabyte boot drive I've run a one terabyte time machine. I know that I'm not going to fill up my boot drive You know past about 80 and if I do I'll probably make some changes to what I'm storing where um But yeah, I would go with it. I would go with an ssd Uh bryman row in the chat room is asking ssd versus hard drive and yeah, I mean why not You know those those smaller Two to four terabyte bus powered ssds are relatively inexpensive these days. They run quietly Which I really like. I hate hearing a hard drive going During the middle of the day when time machine's going. So yes, I I would say ssd over hard drive for sure Um, plus there's a lot of ways to exclude what you're recording on what you're what you're backing up. Yeah, putting on. Yeah Absolutely, you know, yeah I want to get those things that that you need. Yeah. How about you john? um in my world Uh, so I do time machine backups um Despite your warning. I do my time machine backups Uh On a synology. Oh same. I yeah, this is a do as I say not do as I do scenario for sure Yeah, well, but I do multiple things. So one I do time machine on my synologies One machine goes on one one goes on the other I then Use hyper backup on the synology to back up the entire contents of That to the other one because I have enough room to do that And then my third thing so taking your advice this time around Uh, and then I do a carbon copy clone or to an external, um ssd. Yeah Okay, so I want to I want to dig into one of the things that you said because this is interesting to me Uh, do your Why is it that you because I think we're going to surface something important here.  Yeah But if I do versioned backups of my synology I can go back in time And uh what I would do to fix the problem and it usually worked is I would restore an older Time machine backup file and then try it again and it worked So I remember when you told me about this initially a number of years ago And I was like, oh my gosh, that's brilliant and I started doing that And then I uh, I have I have a uh, I have a thing for you john because that this is a that's a premature bell ringing uh You don't need to do that anymore because btrfs on Synology is a lot like apfs on The mac it's the newer file system and one of the things it brings with it Similar to what we get with apfs on the mac is snapshots So I turned on snapshots for my time machine shared volume And now if and when it gets corrupted, I can roll back day by day by day until I find the one That is no longer corrupted. I don't have to be copying data across the network. I don't need multiple copies I mean it snapshots do take up more space for sure So you have to be aware of uh, you know, you just have to manage that and and the the Of course, Synology is much better at managing letting you control how snapshots are managed than than macOS is but But yeah, so that that's my that's my advice It thoughts I have I have one more meta piece of advice that might negate the whole last, you know Six minutes we talked about this but but if you have more to add please do because it's relevant I mean these backup things. No, I'll I'll have to uh Enable that. Yeah, it's because I checked mine and they are formatted as a btrfs, right? So um, this whole conversation might be moot Because I am well, I'm guessing That less and less people are using time machine these days and and my my evidence starts With the fact that in macOS ventura with the revamped system settings time machine is no longer a first class citizen It lives buried under settings system settings general And then time machine is like at the bottom of that list somewhere if you search for it You'll find it and it's I think it is one of the ones that if you right click on system settings Yeah, it it shows up as a first class citizen there. So whatever that's about but you know, uh It doesn't it wouldn't surprise me if less and less people are using time machine or backups Traditional backups of any kind because think about it with iCloud drive syncing iCloud photos iCloud music library Or iMap mail whether that's iCloud mail or or you know gmail or whatever cloud based You know mail There really isn't much that any of us store locally that isn't by default synced somewhere And despite what a lot of purists might want to tell you they're not entirely wrong But they're not entirely right when they say that sync isn't backup In a sense sync is backup especially sync with versioning Where you have a little bit of history to the syncing and and some you know some of that which a lot of this does so um Yeah, I don't know like I I I'd be curious to hear how many people I The question I want to ask is how many folks out there used to backup Use some sort of traditional backup religiously like you know a time machine or carbon copy clone or whatever and and no longer do Uh, or maybe you have a family member Like maybe you're like us and you're still holding on to the past of a must backup because we've learned our lessons the hard way So I'm curious, you know, do you have family members that that perhaps don't participate in that same backup regimen? and Have had catastrophic failures and recovered from them because that's really what I'm looking for is the the person who doesn't back up Or even if you have had a catastrophic failure But you haven't needed your backups because the the automatic syncing of everything just sort of took care of you So I'd be curious feedback at mackeycap.com Wait, was that feedback that mackeycap.com? I think it was feedback at mackeycap.com. I believe that's right. No And the other solution. Yeah, as you pointed out Dave, so um, I recently Increased my iCloud drive because it was getting Close to full. Mm-hmm. So I also use iCloud drive I still use dropbox um And what else one drive? Yeah, so consider cloud services as well. Yeah Yeah, do you you not use Synology Drive for your stuff, Joe? Oh, yeah, I use that too. So I back up My documents or I think my home folder. Okay on each machine Yeah, so I set aside a Synology Drive To do that as well So backups everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean we you know We came up in a time where bulletin boards were a thing and backups were the only backup You know, if you weren't intentionally backing up your machine You didn't have a backup of your machine, right? Like that that was just a fact of life then you had to swap out 10 floppies over the course of The day I got a zip drive Should have been the day I started doing backups. It was not but it should have been It took a near data loss scenario for me to actually start using that But yeah, I have one drive and one place for a backup that was like panacea Tape drives were the thing for a long time I managed a lot of tape drives for you know for corporate environments and And you know, they would swap out the tape or I would be contracted to go in once a week and you know swap out tapes or whatever but but like I just don't I can see someone coming into The the computing world now like getting a laptop, you know, you figure I was going to say a college student But I bet very few college students are getting Our our first time laptop users. So let's say a middle school student, you know, and and then a high school student Are they backing up? No. And do they need to probably not it's probably all synced out and you know, it doesn't really matter And moe and facebook says, you know, the most important advice and we've kind of covered it is to have three backups using different methods because you don't know which one is corrupt until Until you go to use it and then you're like, ah, so he says he uses time machine back plays and super duper and then He says a super duper and time machine are on different drives. I'm kind of the same way I I use I still use time machine But I use it like on a thumb drive and then another usb powered drive and then The drobo the good old days. What did we what was the name of that one day that then went commercial and hosed us? We had drobo crash plan crash plan. Yeah That was great. It was free for individual for us. Yeah, you know, yeah, and then But that was kind of cool. Well, but yeah, I'm gonna get back to using sonology to To do all my backups, but because I found that the getting into it on drobo It's a dying technology. It's no longer supported. Oh Drobo, I think as as of last week the company doesn't exist anymore. I think the company shuttered I I don't Don't research do your own research on that.  Yeah, well, yeah, I I I created a thread in our discord Earlier this week called poor one out for drobo. So I'll link to that Uh, but yeah, I'm pretty sure it's it's they're done. Yeah Yeah, well, they say bankruptcy Last at the towards the end of last year, right? Well, yeah, but that's I mean bankruptcy is just a financial restructuring of your debt Right. Yeah, you know, so companies sometimes I was going to say companies survive and sometimes don't That's well, but also sometimes really thrive after I mean oftentimes a bankruptcy is a great way So yeah to to to get your To to create yourself a path forward. Yeah, correct. Yeah. Yeah Um But I don't think they succeeded in this because the wikipedia page Says drobo was so, you know, that's pretty that's a pretty good sign That's too bad too because it was brilliant technology at the time and it should have been Well, synology took their place because those are smart guys thinking how to do network storage Yes. Yeah, there's yeah Yeah, they drobo just didn't didn't evolve with the time in a way that allowed them to stay Relevant and and therefore profitable. So, uh Staying relevant and moving forward into things that people actually use unlike backups Uh, you've got a tip about drying out your air pods. Don't you pilot peat? From listener dan to share. I do. Yeah, I do. So um, yeah Dan writes The other day I accidentally dropped One of my air pods third generation into my clean and I cannot emphasize the word clean enough Toilet. Oh man, that's guys No pun intended see what I did there. Yeah, I didn't mean to do that. Uh, I watched it quickly After quickly extracting it and sanitizing it I was left with a very wet air pod that had jumbled audio output I figured this was due to the water still trapped inside after doing some research I found that you can use desiccant packets the little silk the little silica gel packets you find in Clothes and pill bottles to help extract moisture from the air pods. I had a few desiccant packs from medications I'm still currently taking so here's what I did I placed four packs in a very small plastic bag along with my air pod and squeezed out as much air as I could From the bag and let it sit overnight And when I woke the next morning my air pod sounded completely back to normal Still needed to be charged after being left out all night But I'm so happy I didn't need to spend a bunch of money replacing my air pods. So going forward I'll be saving my desiccant packs For another potential waterlogged air pod and I hope this helps someone else who gets the air pods wet And doesn't know what to do keep up the good work very appreciative of all the tips I've learned from your community thus far And I went on there and looked the air pods third generation and the air pods pro Have an ipx4 rating which allows them to get Splashed on and sweat upon and that sort of thing don't submerge them don't swim in them Don't take a shower in them that kind of stuff, but yeah I suspect that that ipx4 rating assisted in and then getting the the remainder of the water out with the desiccant packs And by the way, don't eat those desiccant packs No, keep those away from your your pets and your kids Yeah, um Warning signs all over them. Yeah. Yeah for and for good reason. Yeah. Yeah, I I um I worked with this guy you out from the inside out I worked I think that's it's interesting because I always used to keep rice Like a a a bag of rice at the ready to like throw things into and rice will act in in a similar way I I wonder which is better So, uh, if you know Whether rice or desiccant packs are a better solution for these guys My my email is feedback at mackeykeb.com. But my gut says that I've always felt better about rice because it it's like the small little particles And so it like you're getting it right up against the edges of the thing whatever it is But maybe that doesn't actually matter. I don't know You know somewhere recently I read that that was kind of a myth that rice doesn't work But I'm like, yeah, you know, I I I don't know and I I I can't back that up. I couldn't tell you where or why I can verify it works I can verify it works to a certain extent so I was um Like a little little chemist when I was a kid and I discovered something I think it was a magic kid that I had and One of the tricks involved putting rice in a bowl and doing something And I got bored with it. I don't understand it. So I poured the rice down the drain Uh, don't do that Uncooked rice down the drain. Oh, I bet your I bet your parents were super happy with you a day or two later Yeah, I don't think we had to get a plumber, but they're like, why is the drain backing up? I'm like, oh, um Maybe I don't know Yeah beats me. Yeah I was like the roto-ruder man likes you. I've always saved my my desiccant packets. I'm I'm I'm not embarrassed to admit why but I'm not sure if I should share the stories that would As to why but I will uh I when I was at city bank, I worked with this guy who I will describe as an old hippie That's not entirely accurate, but it's close enough for this story And and he was like he was the chief tech support guy for our floor I I did some different stuff.  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That's k o l i d e dot com slash mgg And our thanks to collide for sponsoring this episode All right. Well, let's uh, shall we jump to donna here john? Yeah, here's a interesting hidden feature Yeah, um, I wanted to share um, I'm typically my mom's driver for doctor's appointments, but due to my broken shoulder. Sorry about that Uh, my husband has been helping out I wanted to share contact info with him for one of her doctors so he could use maps and notice something new to me called filter fields Um, this is great when I just want to send someone's phone number or address before We copy and paste or send a screenshot now You can just uncheck anything that you don't want to include with a contact card and send only what you want to share And uh, sure enough now I found out something weird with this dave though So I tried to do this on my mac and i'm like Where's where's the the button that says filter? And it wasn't there um Unless I'm doing something really wrong here, but but the way that you get What you have to do is bring up the contact and then press on the square with the up arrow, which means share um, yeah And then and then you get radio but and then if if you if you click on the That button you then get radio buttons for all the fields for that contact and then you can choose Which ones you want to send and who you want to send it to so But it's not on mac os only ios. I'll have to dig I don't know why that is the case Well, I mean the contacts app is not the same like it is That's well, but I mean I know you know that but but what I'm saying is Safari over time has gotten to be more and more the same app on on both platforms Right and we're seeing that happened. I mean it you know the system settings app and the settings app very clearly system settings came from You know ios and and was sort of jury rig to make macOS be its thing That has not yet happened with contacts in fact If anything it's been going the other way where we recently saw the ability to edit groups and such Added to the ipad os contacts app things that were previously only doable in the mac But the two have not merged and so yeah those features that are only there on ios You know there there has been no reason No engineering byproduct that just puts it all together, but I I agree with you I would like to see that happen on the mac. I think that that would be great. Yeah Yeah Interesting find I didn't know that existed I I I like that a lot better because it's like and I've shared contacts on ios. I've never noticed that little um That that little thing. What is it? What's the what's the name of it? Filter fields. Yeah, fascinating fascinating Good stuff. All right uh, let's see we talked about Uh in the last episode we talked about security keys and and hardware keys and lawyer jeff has He has used some He says I and I wanted to let you know about my experience in using physical security keys on apple hardware Since the 16.3 update for ios on the day it was announced. I purchased two ube key five nfc devices Uh, they have both usb c and nfc connections Apple requires a minimum of two physical security keys and that's in case you lose one. All right, I'd like this already Uh, you add each device by going to settings your name Password and security security keys add security keys and this works the same on both ios and macos He says understand that you will not need to use the hardware key to log in or use any of your devices in normal use The ube key simply replaces the six digit code that apple Sends to all of your connected devices or in his case used to send to all of your connected devices that form of two-factor authentication He says uh It's for those circumstances where apple wants to confirm that it's really you I get this every week when I log into podcast connect because it uses my apple id They want to send the thing to my it's ridiculous. Like can I tell it that I remember like it's still me But anyway, uh Since the older method used by apple was to send a code via i message But that was phased out in the past few years to for that six You know six digit thing that he mentioned And he says so instead of the code popping up a message box now appears for him Telling him to connect your hardware key And then you just tap the ube key on the back of your phone nfc Or insert the usb c end of the key into your ipad or mac Oh, it then authenticates your identity and continues doing what you were trying to do Uh, that's all the key does so it replaces the code Uh, he he has a lot more to say about this But I that was the part that I thought was really relevant like where does the where do these keys fit into my apple-centric life? Lawyer jeff tells us where because he's using them So you don't need it to log in you don't need it to authenticate when you're Installing hardware or selling software. Sorry, but it it is for those moments where you need to authenticate your apple id Very cool. Oh Cool. Thank you lawyer jeff. Good stuff. I like this and then uh John gary wrote in with some advice for us. Yeah. Yeah very timely So gary says I decided to take advantage of the extra security that apple apple offers and use a physical security key I ordered a ube key 5 c i and the ube co 5 nfc I went into the apple id settings on my f114 and followed the steps after setting up the security keys I noticed that on my iMac. I was being asked for my apple id password by the podcast app So I put it in and clicked okay and it kept popping up and even if I would click cancel and quit the podcast app Out of desperation I restarted the mac and I thought the dialog box popping up was going to prevent restart But thank you thankfully it did not If you follow my lead and use the security keys make sure you restart your mac afterwards so you don't get caught cool cool stuff and Yeah, so yeah, this is it's interesting. I'm curious to see How many of How many apple users but really how many of us from the mac ekep community? it really start like Not just experiment with security keys. Well I would actually love to know if you're experimenting with them and then you know Like three to six months from now. Are you still using them or have you abandoned them for some reason or another? um, it seems to me You know, we choose our place on that continuum between ultimate security and ultimate convenience And while certainly security keys have Actually quite a bit of convenience. In fact, I would I you know, I would like it better um To uh to do what what jeff's doing, especially if I could just leave it plugged into my mac Uh, you know like and then I don't have to think about it That wouldn't be a bad thing But you lose that key and life starts to get really difficult real fast That's why apple requires you to set up two but You know, you leave one on your mac plugged in The other one you take in your travel bag with you you lose the the traveling one while you're traveling Yes, there's still one at home in your mac, but it ain't with you. So now what do you do? Right those kinds of things start to that's what enters my squirrel brain. So, you know, so you're temporarily Out of luck, but then you have to replace it. Yeah. Yeah, then you have to replace it and go from there, but Yeah, I don't yeah, that's what I'm saying is it's like I just I don't know But I want to know if you just forget all that security stuff I just used the word password or monkey monkey's a good one and no one will ever figure it out No, no, no the problem with either of those ideas p is they they make me use two hands To type in my thing. So one two three one two three and the reason it's one two three one two three and not one two three four Is uh, well if you can get away with a three character password, which I think you can then one two three is great Because then you're just using three fingers super efficient. But uh, if you need Four characters, you do one two three one now. You don't even have to move your hand See how I actually justified using a terrible, uh Like I I actually sold that like I'm I I'm not serious about that folks. I like that sounded too good Coming out. I really started to believe it Yeah, I could just change them all Yeah Oh, man, there we go. Yeah. Yeah, we didn't learn. Don't learn that unlearn Yeah Uh John you uh speaking of security you started, um Messing around with pass keys a little bit Yeah, and it's interesting how the two different mechanisms kind of crossover Um So yeah, so there's a pass key and a security key and okay make sure Make sure you you you separate the two because they're different. So yeah, so I went to uh I found an article and it said yeah, these sites are using it and one of the sites Should have used apple but um best buy so I have a best buy account. So I'm like, okay Let me go there. So you go to their site You get the sign in prompt and one of the options is sign in with a pass key So I'm like, okay, that's cool. Let me try this Huh, and then what happened is I got a dialogue and this was the part that I think could be potentially confusing. It's like Choose how you like to sign in. Do you want to use an iphone ipad or android device? Or do you want to use a security key? It's thing Interesting And so I I chose the first option because I don't have two security keys So I can't write yet. I have one right of the ub key ones, uh, and I think I'll order another one Just so I can do it with the the physical key my fear with requiring The physical key dave is Well, yeah, you put it this out if you lose it then you're You're out of luck man. Yeah Well, I suppose you could re-enroll and get another security key if you lose it, but I just went to sign in with a pass key here on best buy. I figured I'd do it while we were doing it I have a best buy account And it asked me for my email address and then it said you don't have a pass key on this device So you have to so do I have to sign into my account and add a pass key to it? Is that the key? I believe that is the route I took Okay, so I would I would have to go in Go to like your account options and one is password I think that's the path that I eventually took so it wasn't entirely Obvious yeah, they could do this better like I I'm shocked that they aren't just Coming to me right now that I've logged in And saying, you know go like do you want to enable a pass key? But You know, there you go Yeah, sign in without a pass for using pass key. Okay. So that yeah, you have to log in for best buy You have to log in and set it up when I did it with cash fly, which is what we talked about last week. I uh I did like after I logged in, you know recently it just boom, you know Like do you want to set up a pass key? Like yes, so but I'm also on an a 2019 intel iMac I don't know that this device would support pass keys. Like how would I authenticate them? I'm I'm Now really curious about this because I I can't do like if I say create your pass key It says do you want to save a pass key for this pass keys are saved? Yes, okay So I just type in my password. So you know one two three one And uh, and then it says okay now it says I'm all set Okay, all right. So now if I Dave's account buy us off some new Well, but that's the that's the beauty of this is that you can't because you don't have My pass key, right? So if now if I go to say sign in with a pass key It asks for the email address So I still need to give it my email address to identify me and then It comes up and says I have a pass key. Do you want to do that? I authenticate with my super insecure password Uh of one two three one and then boom. I'm in okay All right, that's pretty cool Yeah Yeah, and then the others, you know, there's obviously google authenticator a lot of places are using that but is that that's That's totally different. That's just for your your two factor Thing but the two factor goes away with a pass key because you now have this public private key pair that that You know that that now locks to you So way more secure than a than a multi factor kind of thing because If I got access to your google authenticator, or if you're like me and you store your Uh, your two fa codes in your one password You know instead of using a separate app now if I get access to your one password vault or If I get access to your last pass vault something that would be far more likely and timely Uh now I can I I'm in I'm not you But you know with pass keys you need the individual keys So I but really then I just need access to your key chain on your mac I mean it like there is still a single point of failure On this I think if I if I'm wrong on that Feedback One other thing I was wrong on uh just to follow up last week from uh 968 I as part of a quick tip.   Yeah, the third grade or something. I got yeah, it was like, okay Yeah, no, I I see why auto capitalization is on by default. Yes, there are those moments when it drives me crazy But there's many many many more moments where it saves my butt and I rely on it. So yeah, no, that didn't last Hey, Dave while you're following up from last week. Can I throw a couple in? Yeah, please go ahead. So you guys talked about, uh, One of the listeners had a pdf that kept opening up in pdf pen pro in spite of the fact They said no, no open every pdf file in yeah pdf expert had the same exact problem And I just ignored it because I'm in a hurry to get this open and signed and You guys said use onyx used onyx Ran it it rebuilt that launch database and Launched e and boom done fixed it. Yeah Instantly um, and then the other follow up are you like pounding on your desk because those of us that can hear the low end We're getting this like Oh, yeah Sorry, then the other one was uh talking about apple pay in international travel I wanted to bring up two points. One is if you're going to south korea. Don't count on apple pay It's a holy on subsidiary of samsung, which is you know, not apple google google pay That sort of thing, but yeah, there's almost no apple pay in south korea. There's a there's once or twice But I've never found it there and then but the other thing I would suggest to people is make sure you have a credit card Because it was a charge charges your credit card Make sure you have a credit card that does not charge you international transaction fees Because they're they're skimming off the top of the exchange rate if they're charging you those fees. So yes Yes, yes, no, that's a great I when you brought that up, uh Uh Pre-show man I was like, how did I how have I traveled internationally twice in the last, you know Eight months and not shared that tip with everybody here because I share it with my family Like before we go away. I'm like check with your credit card. So you know, which one's not to use You know when you're there Exactly. Yeah Yeah, because I had one card that I thought Was, you know had no No, whatever the 3% whatever it is. Yeah, it's outrageous. It's outrageous. Yeah, it's outrageous. Yeah, exactly Hey speaking of uh resurfacing advice from a prior show John back in 1946 actually you prepped a thing about uh dealing Solving the problem that we see frequently in macOS ventura you restart Your startup apps launch which includes things like, you know bartender and and default folder and things like that And then you start getting messages saying, you know bartender needs accessibility permissions or default folder needs full disc access Or whatever it needs and and you go and look and it has them and it's like guys Why are you telling me it doesn't have it? and There's this tcc database That uh that gets That needs help Is is where i'm going to go with this in 946 We shared a piece that said that was older Predating macOS ventura that said there was a command line that you could use while your mac was up and running to reset Various bits of that It it doesn't I've I've not found that to actually solve the problem Because I've had this problem since we talked about it twice once on this machine Which we talked about in 964 and then this past week on my mac mini Down in the office so the intel machine or the m1 machine rather and uh What I found is you have to boot into safe mode and delete The tcc db file and and and one other that sits right next to it I'm not going to go through the instructions here because it involves safe mode and terminal and all of that stuff But there is an article that and I can't stress this enough either have a second mac next to you with the article Up or print it out. I've printed it out. I've now used the print out twice once up here and once downstairs But delete that database now the next time you start up everything will ask you for that permission because the database is empty Uh, but you give it permission and and since then my reboots have been far Far less eventful. Let's say so my advice. I think there's something about Ventura that screwed this up with the early builds And he is now better. I don't want to go out on a limb and say that it's actually Solved but it's better now and so But I think if we had ventura prior to let's say 13 1 or maybe even 13 2 It it like we're stuck with whatever that issue was wiping out the database letting it rebuild it with today's ventura seems to be the thing so my advice is I would I'm gonna do this on all of my machines as a matter of course Of course, if you're not seeing any issues I would understand why you don't want to go through this headache But my guess is you might wind up with this headache down the road So, you know do it proactively that that's my advice, but uh, but certainly know that it's it's doable there Y'all of all John following up from last week's episode while we're on the follow-ups We have something from dug at least dug in allison. If not many many more I mentioned the b5 from audio engine because I was shocked to find a a device That would let me stream like a commercially available device that would let me stream airplay to it. I mistakenly Interpreted that it would do airplay to it will not the audio engine b5 only Does airplay which means it can't do the multi-room audio through airplay it can do it its own way But not through airplay. However, dug and allison Have a better answer for us and john you're gonna tell us about that Um, excuse me, uh, I hope so Uh All right. Well, I will I I will I will share it if if you if you are not prepared it up here Okay, cool. Great. All right. Their solution is the belkin sound form connect airplay to adapter and airplay to receiver wireless streaming for apple devices to bluetooth speakers optical and 3.5 millimeter speaker inputs for iphone 14 13 macopro and more Yeah, that's the device and it's it's way less expensive than the um Then the audio engine one. This is 62 dollars and 80 cents That's pretty good and it has uh, yeah, it has an audio out so you could go to an rca if you wanted and it's got it's got um And they make it hard to see. Yeah, it's got an analog audio out and it did and the digital. Yeah Nice find I like it. I like it. I like it pretty good. It's good, man Good stuff, um Yeah, for sure for sure. All right um Hey, we're sort of in cool stuff found here. So we're just we're gonna go for it We're jumping to cool stuff found john you want to uh, you want to share the the next one from Rotterham, I hope I'm pronouncing your name correctly Yes, let's do that Rotterham All right, here it is. Um listening to your podcast uh Episode 968 on password managers and your frustrations I've discovered a password manager called strongbox Which is a premium key pass app for apple ecosystems This app lets you decide what you want to do with your data and it's transferable to other platforms Should you wish and also it will use local and iCloud vaults? I'm in the process of switching from one password and I do not regret it Wow, the user experience is great. It integrates with safari autofill um Now I didn't actually use the the the product itself, but I did download and check it out and Um, so here's the the deep part. So there's a little button So you start it up and it's like, well, I don't have any data in me It's like, well, yeah, that's because you haven't imported it. How do you import it? There's a little button that says add database and here are the options Add from files add from one drive database add from dropbox database um Let me see access sftp database add webdab database and then you can import from one password last pass apple slash iCloud Or a generic csv kaba separated values. Oh, that's awesome huh Here's what I like about it. Dave you scroll by pretty quickly on the screen for those watching but the pricing you can do subscription But you can do a one-time payment and yeah I was looking here right. It's well, it's it's it's free to start out and and as I Point out you're missing some convenience features.  So the convenience features. I'll call it What I'm looking for here and I don't See it is if you can share Libraries like I want to yeah, like, you know, I would love to have a I mean I do have a library that's like the Dave and Lisa password library where there are logins that she and I share for certain you know things like our our You know our electric company bill or whatever whatever and if one of us changes the password It's just automatically changed for the other. So I don't see that they have a Vaults in one password It's vaults and it's it's super confusing in one password. It bit warden makes that much simpler But I'd be curious to see if this one has it too, but um, but yeah, that's I mean 80 bucks like That's great. Yeah, interesting. Nice. Fine. Nice. Fine. I like it. That's uh Keeps this rolling Um, I have found a thing that I've I've actually been using in the office from targets They're sustainable energy harvesting eco smart keyboard and what that means. It's it's a full-size keyboard Uh, it is bluetooth So, you know, it is wireless and it is also solar powered So it charges itself with um, you know a variety of I I haven't You know, I don't use it outside and it has stayed charged for me. So there you go And it's also in the eco smart realm. It's made with like 85 percent recycled materials But uh, it's got a nice touch to it It's it's much quieter than my clacky keyboard that I have in the office I can't have a clacky keyboard obviously up here in the studio because otherwise you'd hear clack clack clack all the time But I have a clacky one in the office, which I really like except when I'm on like zoom calls And I want to take notes or you know, send a text message that I don't want the people on the zoom call to know about And so, uh, I have this nearby and I just grab it and I bring it over and I use it while I'm on my calls And it's been it's been fantastic and sometimes it stays there because it's a comfortable keyboard to use so Yeah, it's pretty cool Pretty uh, 119 bucks. Yeah, it looks it has a number pad and I hit. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah, it's a number pad It's a full-size keyboard. Yeah, I put a I put a high pass filter AKA a roll off the low end eq on on your channel there Pete So hopefully the the table bounding isn't bounding isn't too terrible my chair into it, but So Can you I assume you can use something like better touch tool or Something like one of those lines to create to map a command key. Oh for sure. Oh, okay Yeah, I mean it it has it's fully mac happy.  Yep So, yeah, no, it's my old eyes. I was looking it looked like a windows It's both it, you know, it's like most keyboards these days It it'll it'll map to either but yeah, no, it works great And then it's it's got some function keys which even have like auto assigned, you know mute volume up down brightness Play pause forward fast forward reverse, you know So, yeah, it's it's got it's fully I didn't have to run any third-party software to make the keyboard do what I wanted it to do Let me put it that way. Nice. Yeah. No, it's great. It's you know out of the box. It's it's um, it's great. Yeah Uh We got time go ahead John Does it no, I think it's it's a bluetooth only. Okay, correct. It is it is near as I yeah I haven't that's a good question I don't I didn't try to plug it in to my mac. I should look But yeah, no, I think I think it that is correct. It is bluetooth only. I don't have it up here I have it downstairs, but uh, but yeah, yeah, bluetooth It is bluetooth only but but you know with the way it charges It's fine. So yeah, man Uh, you want to take us to the next one, john, you want to tell us about kaleidoscope from Todd? Why not? So Todd says I've never heard you mention the macOS application kaleidoscope So I figure I'd share how it has saved my bacon Uh over The last week I've ended up with dozens of backup hard drives containing files over the last few decades Non-time machine drives a mess of personal pictures music libraries documents. I'm talking about hundreds of thousands of duplicates It sucks because I can't find anything and never have a consistent method of organizing my files I've copied files and folders around without a care For remaining organized the problem for another day Uh, my day is today My new goal now is to consolidate these drives to my Synology disk station while filtering out duplicates kaleidoscope App has saved me dozens if not hundreds of hours It will deeply scan folders on your mac comparing the folders against each other making it dead easy to isolate different equal and unmatched files if you happen to have One mp3 file that is different and it is buried eight folders deep kaleidoscope will sniff it out and let you know It's also deeply scans text files and images think of kaleidoscope as a nice gooey for diff Uh, I won't lie. It is a pricey app But I happily purchased it instead of manually sifting through thousands of files I've been thrilled with it and have to sing its praises to someone So thank you for singing We will sing them for you. Yeah. No, and he's not wrong. I mean it it's 150 bucks or 149 99 us Uh, so that is not inexpensive for sure but This seems yeah Fascinating. We'll have to check this out. I I'd never heard of this before. I don't I had you ever heard of it before john No, no. Yeah, that's pretty good. That looks cool It looks. Yeah. Yeah, it looks cool Speaking of cool things that I'd never heard of before Alex s shares a quick look extension called peak and He says with peak it's the ultimate mac os quick look extension Uh, you can copy text jump to lines and pages and search documents from quick look That's a pretty big deal Like to be able to like find a file spacebar and now actually like interact with it in some meaningful ways Without having to open it up. Uh, it says it brings popular system extension keyboard shortcuts to peak Uh, you can select all copy search jump to line scroll to end scroll to beginning Yeah, supports github style. That's yeah, that's pretty cool Big z labs is what is who makes peak. So thank you for sharing that alex. I like it. That's good stuff Uh, what's next john you want to bring us to oh don found wi-fi porter Yes, so this is pretty cool. So this is uh, so when we were talking about, um Making qr codes Uh of your biz card. He he thought of something uh similar. Oh does something a little different Anyways wi-fi porter.com sells a 39 dollar device that you set up to use your wi-fi network allowing you to create a qr code Which your vid is visitors only have to scan to connect to your wi-fi network It doesn't provide the ssid or password to the network. It just connects them to the network As always you only need to log in the first time. Uh, it is an attractive piece of pine Wood that you can leave sitting on your desk, hang on the wall, etc And I checked it out dave and I think it does more than he stated. So not only does it give you a qr code Uh to log into the wi-fi, but I believe it all also does nfc um Because it says oh if you haven't it. Yeah, it was weird the presentation. They're like if you have an android phone Just hold it up to this thing um Otherwise make a qr code Yeah Yeah, I know That's cool Yeah, oh, yeah, they you're right They say older iPhones connect by pointing the camera toward the qr code on the bottom But that a newer iPhone you just nfc to it or an android phone that has nfc and and boom 40 bucks And if you want it in walnut 60 bucks That's pretty cool. Huh Huh who to think walnut is 20 bucks more? Well, it's what I I should point out walnut and stainless steel. So it's it's a little Yeah, it's it's got a different look. Yeah Yeah Huh, I like it. That's great. If you have an airbnb or a business or Yeah Yeah, I'll say All right Yeah, like the um Like the the bash we were just at me and you dave. Yeah our hosts, uh, put up qr code to get on his network Oh, yeah, super smart I did the same thing a couple of weeks ago after we talked about it here in the studio I printed at huge eight and a half by 11 qr code Uh, it it says on the bottom join the wi-fi here in the studio I stuck it to the inside of the door And I hope to never have to hear someone I know well my answer to the question. Hey, what's the wi-fi is just point at the door There you go.  No, you're not wrong. I I could just like paste it on You're right. Yeah, if I put it somewhere that's like super obvious to see because you're right They wouldn't see that until they actually turn around and look at the door. They don't know what I'm gonna do I'm moving it to the beer fridge, pete. That's gonna solve the problem Problem solved. Yeah done. Yep. Yep. Get that sign out of my way. I need beer They find the beer fridge First then they ask about the wi-fi. So yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah. No, you're not you're not wrong You're not wrong. There's a show title. They find the beer fridge first. They find the beer fridge. Yeah, don't they Yep, they sure do beer fridge before wi-fi Yeah, there you go And a suggestion for any of these solutions because I think somebody sent us we may get to it in another episode There is a way to create a qr code to log into your uh, oh go ahead and share that. Yeah, no We're here for sure. Yeah, I forgot who would uh shortcuts There there's a shortcuts gallery Yeah, if you go to shortcuts on your phone and search for wi-fi it's gonna find a shortcut That'll let you uh make a barcode Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, here's the thing though it prompts you For so just be careful with this It it prompts you for the ssid and the password You may want to make a guest network Oh Yeah, well Oh, I see what you're saying my caution is yeah, if you're gonna deploy this, um, why well why I mean, I'm I'm curious I think there is a way to extract. I don't believe that barcode is in uh, encrypted Okay, so if I scan that barcode, um, maybe using a third party barcode scanner I think I may be able to see the username and password Oh, I mean you just specify so I'm just offering a caution when you don't even need a third party. You're overthinking it Which ladies and gentlemen, john f brawn Um, if you scan this with your iphone once your iphone joins the network You can go into settings and see the password for the network So like they they have the password. Yeah, for sure. So it really the question is Would you give guests to your house? Your main wi-fi password or would you make them join a guest network? And if if the answer is a guest network then put the guest network on the thing if the answer is no I'll just let them join. It's totally fine. Then then yeah, then then that's the That's the other answer. So Yeah, interesting. Okay. Yeah, like my family They have, you know, i devices and stuff like that and I let them on the main network because I trust them. Well, also um, you probably know this dave, but there is a way to share um Your password with another device assuming that you're in their contact list Now you'll just get a prompt on your yes You'll just get a prompt on your phone saying hey, uh, you want to let someone so on your network? Yeah, yeah, I also let that was neat, but I learned But apparently one of my devices I am not in the contact list. So I didn't set up the prompt for that and I'm like, oh man Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but again, you're sharing your your primary wi-fi network I've I've never run a guest network here. I've always just given people Access to my my wi-fi network. I mean it's it's that same kind of thing like if they're at my house That you know the I don't know maybe maybe I'm maybe I'm being uh Naive here, but like it's it hasn't caused a problem yet, you know I don't know. I mean it like, you know I feel like there's Friends aren't friends aren't good. What could go wrong?  Yeah, they got to get beer out of the fridge I mean, who's gonna hack the guy that filled the beer fridge? That's really the question. Maybe that is the uh, the show title I don't know I don't know although t.m. Papa suggested putting it on your kick drum, you know I I could yeah your band name there. I know no, no He's not he's not no the kick drum in this. Yeah, that's true because Occasionally I will take the drum set out of the studio and and use it for a gig, but that's pretty rare But yeah, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah No, that's not that's a pretty good idea. I like that All right well I think that's gonna be the end guys. It's just how it be This is just my friend. Oh man things got weird real fast And if this is that you Oh Good old Jim Morrison. I wonder where he is these days Paris Yeah, maybe maybe he's buried in Paris You know, I was at South by I my wife has always been of the opinion that uh, he did not pass away in Paris Uh, he may be dead now, but she was convinced that he did not die then and and there's a lot of like There's a lot of of of circumstantial evidence to support that theory uh, I never I didn't buy it About eight years ago. I was at South by Southwest. I was at a session Where robby kreger the guitar player from the doors It was just him and his manager and robby was like Talking about I think a new book that he had at the time or whatever But really there were only maybe 25 of us in the room at the session which sort of blew my mind And it became a q&a a very relaxed q&a. It was very much like a maki keb, you know live kind of thing it was it was super chill and somebody asked about american prayer, which is the album that they recorded the music to uh, underneath jim's poetry And uh, it was right about that that time that you know jim purportedly passed away and What was fascinating to me was robby the way he was talking He's like, oh, yeah after jim Left us and there was this pregnant pause Where like it wasn't like he was choked up about you know The fact that his friend had passed away 30 years prior or anything It was he it was him stopping and choosing his words very carefully As because he didn't say When jim passed away or jim died He's like when jim and he's had to think about how he wanted to communicate this And he said when jim left us and that was that was it There's also a bank teller in los angeles now remember, you know, this was back before the internet existed uh, or at least in any meaningful way and Who said that someone matching? jim's physical description came in days after He uh, reportedly died in in paris, but of course She didn't know this the bank teller didn't know this because the news hadn't gotten to her Uh, and withdrew a bunch of money from jim's account And it was like, well, yeah, it was just like jim was here with drawing money from his account like Happened all the time normal Yeah, so I don't know jim might be in paris. I've seen i've been to the the perilous shades Uh a perilous chance cemetery. I'm I'm mispronouncing it I'm I'm I'm misremembering the name and mispronouncing it. So It's a double whammy right there that way you can't find it Yeah, I mean his grave is cool to see it's fascinating Whether he's there or not He may not be there. He may be working the french fryer next to elvis at the burger king in kalamazoo That's right. You don't know You don't know All right case the manager for that. Yeah, that's right jfk's the manager. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yep If you believe in that sort of thing Yeah, yeah, yeah So I didn't up until that day and I actually like as soon as the session was over I like ran out and called lisa I was like, you might be right. I think you're right. I think you're right. I think you're right Yeah, so Yeah, uh Thanks everybody for listening Thanks to cash fly for providing all the bandwidth to get the show from us to you Even even the bandwidth for the extra segment about my crazy hair brain jim Morrison theory Uh, make sure you check out Pete's podcast So there I was that also comes from cash fly and check out our merch in fact join our discord go to mackey gov.com Slash discord we're talking about new merch in there We got lots of ideas from you folks and we're adding to them. There's a discord channel for all the merch ideas But of course you can go buy merch at merch dot Is it mackey gov.com slash merch? That's certainly the way to get there. All right, that's it Uh, thanks for hanging out make sure to check out our sponsors mackey gov.com slash sponsors Even just getting the email That we send out with the show notes every week clicking on and visiting the sponsor's website I can't tell you how much that helps us whether you buy or not. That's between you and them Go check it out Speaking of merch John What's the front of uh of pete's shirt say oh wow p cut some merch And what does it say on the front? I can't quite make it out. I think it says don't get caught Maybe with a logo on the back