in the select board meeting of Monday, April 20th, 2020 to order. Who all was here with us, Data? We have Justin Lawrence, we have Flo Smith, we have Angelina Capron, yourself, Diane Isabella, the treasurer and myself, town administrator. I do not see John yet. Chief Wolfe is on the line with us, Rob Allen is on the line with us, and David Delcore from Times Argus. Have I forgotten anyone? Oh, Tom, sorry. Right in the middle. Yeah. Oh, here's John now. Well, why don't we take and give it another few minutes. I assume there is no additions or changes to the agenda? Don't assume that because there are. Are you ready? Are you ready for them? Sure. I would like to add the discussion on Crosstown Road. I would like to have a discussion about the conservation commission's footbridge. I need to have the liquor board to meet, and I'm going to need an executive session at the end of this meeting. Hi, John. Hey. Hey, guys, it's also possible to talk about the no parking situation going on by the pond on Mirror Lake Road. We can add that, Brad, no parking on Mirror Lake Road. I think is it Mirror Lake? Yeah. Or Brookfield Road. Mirror. Okay. Do you have that, Brad? Yeah. Okay. Any public comments? Hearing none. Treasure report, Diane. Okay. The last meeting that we had, I was talking a little bit about property taxes when they're due May 15, and now we're not going to be open to the public. So I've had a couple of people call and ask, well, are you going to put the date back, or are you still going to charge penalties and interest? At this point in time, we have to, because it's been voted by the town at town meeting. However, I was told today by Dana and by our attorney that the legislature is talking about this, and they're trying to create deadlines for property taxes that we could set ourselves and also set ourselves up for grace periods for penalties and interest. However, with that being said, the towns were still responsible for paying their state taxes, which means the educational tax on time, which means they have to be paid by June 15. And if we don't pay it by June 15, there's 8% penalty. So I just want to make you aware of that. I don't know. At this point in time, I'm going on the assumption that the taxes are going to be due May 15, and on May 16, if they're not paid, there's going to be penalty and interest. And I will keep you aware if there are changes with the legislature that we could look at at a later time. But I just want to make you aware that that is still in works. And that's all I've got at this point. Diane, with the property taxes, if the legislation does change it, that you don't have to collect taxes to later, do we have enough in the budget or in the bank to maintain the town for, say, a month? Well, I'm going to need to collect tax money so that I can pay the school. I guess that's my biggest concern. Do we have a comfortable amount in the bank right now? Yes, but I do need to collect some of that money at least to pay the school taxes. Fortunately for us, when we start collecting taxes in August, I have a lot of people who pay for the entire year. So that keeps our bank account very solid. However, as we're getting towards the end of the fiscal year, we will not have as much. And if the legislature says that we can put the date back, that would be the date that we choose, not the legislature. Yeah. I'm just wondering if we'd have enough to take and help cushion the town a little bit. I think it would be very difficult with what we have in the bank after the school payment. We would have to go for 10 no. How much exactly, how many operating days do we have in the bank, meaning how much money do we have in the days when it lasts? Oh, let's see. Because right now, I'm just trying to think of where I'm at. Because right now I have like over a million dollars, which, like I say, without school taxes because the school taxes are like one million and six. So I have to collect at least another half a million to million dollars in order to make it just to make those tax links for the school. Okay. Right now, we're in very good shape as long as I can collect most of the taxes, which I do feel that most people will pay us and most businesses will pay us at this time for the main ones anyways. Okay. Nothing else in the end? No. Okay. Thank you very much. Next on the agenda is swim lessons. Okay. So I guess I can speak to that too. I have spoken to Rachel, Jeru, and she's the one that is on the recreation board. And I asked her to join the meeting and obviously she hasn't at this point in time. I don't know if there's going to be swim lessons or not. I know we spoke about it a little bit and I can tell you right now, we do have some money in reserves for the recreation board. I looked it up and they have like eighty nine hundred and seventy one dollars in reserves that we could spend if you choose to spend some of that money on swim lessons if they're even going to occur. Well, the thing there is is first and first and fitness. It's not first and fitness. It's still going to be more clear as far as I know this year. Well, have you heard it? I haven't heard that. See that I feel they're not going to be, but Rachel, Jeru is not answering my email. I got you. How much was set aside for the swim lessons? Well, normally what we do is we provide twenty five dollars per child up to a thousand dollar limit. And in the past, we normally run about eight hundred dollars. Now, those funds also are removed from their reserve account, the reserve account. Yes. Okay. Anything else on the swim lessons? No. Okay. This one must be you, Diane. Impact on town revenues. It's actually me. Okay. And I have sent a memo out. I don't know if you need me to go over it if you had questions. I think in one sense, we are fortunate that because our revenues are somewhat limited anyway, this situation doesn't impact them like it does over in Montpelier or Berry City. I do expect a little less revenue in the town plurts line and probably less revenue in the zoning line. And then of course, we don't know how how how many unpaid taxes there are going to be. So I think I think as far as not including taxes, we're looking at something like ten thousand dollars. And I have not heard if the state is changing anything with the pilot programs, that would be a big that's a big part of our part of revenues. We do have a healthy cash flow and it would be nice to say that way. But if we do what we've just spoken about, we may have to go out for it. Okay. Let's see here. Okay. Discussion on your spending and hiring freeze. That was on the one member asked about talking about it. That's why I put it on there. Okay. So I asked for this item to be on there for consideration based on where we are with COVID-19 response. Everyone's still at home. You know, is it a right time to put on a spending spending and hiring freeze? The state has limited our expenses to essential items only and hold as much money as possible to limit exposure in the future. Well, the thing there is is I mean, as far as the town goes, we don't have surplus of labor. We're having a road foreman is retiring and I can't see having a three-man road crew. Just kind of make do with the form plus the fact we have to take and have somebody as a foreman in that crew and then you've got our spending, spending freeze. I mean, for the most part, all of our expenses are kind of fixed. The only thing we don't have this fixed is labor costs and we have a union contract with the police and then the only ones else is the office help and the road crew. It would be helpful if people who aren't speaking would mute themselves so we don't get the bat. How's that working? I think they needed yourself. I did. I don't know what I'm doing here. Okay. So John, what did you have in mind? So I was looking at the money that we spent, the money on stone that we recently spent. What did we spend like $46,000 on stone? I'm not sure what road that was for or where it was for, but was it absolutely necessary right now? It probably was for those folks in the road. Hard telling, not knowing, right? I mean, was it just to gravel out a road? In the spring, all we do is maintain. We don't take in doing any work as far as improving roads. We just try to make them pass them. I remember years ago, we used to just push it off to the side, let it dry out, bring it back into the middle. Is that, would that have been something we could do to share or look to do money in the future? Or how would that work? We brought a lot of stone in, a lot of our roads have gotten a lot more filling them than they used to have. So I was just curious. The only thing I can speak to, the corner over here by the three-mile bridge is thawed out and the frost is coming out in a pretty good clip. I'm sure you remember that, Justin. And what it's doing is they are using, I assume they're using the stone to take and just stiffen up these places that are soft. Any comments on that, Dana? I was going to say that this would be a good conversation to have with Tim to see where he could compromise on stone or gravel. I'm not qualified really to answer for him on as far as what he's needed for the roads, the spring road problems. Whether it's overkill or not, I cannot speak to that. So I will. Well, of course he's going to say it's not overkill. I'm sorry I didn't get that. Of course he's going to say it's not overkill. I guess. Well, who's going to judge it? You get a weekly report from Tim? Do I have, I'm sorry. Do I have a weekly report from him? No. No, just conversation with him. So you don't know from week to week what roads we're repairing or which roads we're not? Well, I do, but I'm not sure. I'm not really keeping track of how much stone he's putting on certain roads or what condition they're in before he does that. I certainly can get more information on that gravel. Did Tim, did he say what it was for as he's building up his stockpile? He didn't say what it was for, and because he doesn't come into the office anymore, it's really hard for me to get some of the information. As you can tell, I mean, he's traded a purchase order for it, but he did not discuss this one with me. And I don't know if he's stockpiling it or not at this point. I could certainly find out. Yeah, because I'm thinking that it's like two hard lines. Yeah. You know, because my office is right by the town garage, I do see that they are constantly loading trucks. So they are, I know they're putting dirt on the roads, but how much or where, which roads I am not certain, but I can certainly find out. And we can't have him give you a week before. I'm just wondering how he's being managed. And it sounds like the conversation, which is fine. If we're going to be serious about having a conversation about cutting the budget 10 or 15 percent, and we say everything is fixed expense, we're not ever going to get to the meat of it. I mean, we have to make some really hard decisions in order to do that. And if everyone's good with where we are and they're locked in, then that's okay. That's where we can be as a board. But you know, if we're serious about cutting, we need to look at everything. Dana, what are your thoughts? Are there any areas where you feel the town could save some money? Well, that, you know, the gravel and stone is probably a good place to start. And I think we're what I think John is saying, I think it's a good idea to have a weekly report and to see what we can live without and what we can safely live without. As far as I think I can sit down with the department heads and I'm sure we can economize on things. But I honestly don't think we have an awful lot of wiggle room, but that would be a board decision. Our projects are probably going to come to a screeching hall. We understand that. What is the boy's thoughts of doing an across-the-board cut in July? You'd have to let go, people. Bill, do you have something to add? I see you shaking your head. So you could take yourself off mute and join the conversation if you'd like. Well, I'm not trying to make this adversarial, but there's a lot of costs that are built in that is not a lot of room to save money. I mean, I understand where you're coming from. I applaud that and embrace that. But a lot of our costs, particularly on my side of the department are fixed and there's nothing, I haven't asked for anything extra. I'm not, I mean, adding people and I'm just, I've got a budget that I get by. I hear you and, you know, if we weren't in this situation, you know, I don't think we would be asking this, but, you know, if, you know, if everyone across the board took a 15% pay cut and I'm not suggesting that, I'm just saying like at home, you're going to have to go out things, right? What are those things that you've got based on, well, I have fixed costs, I have my heating, I have my food, I have this, I have that, but to get to, you know, 10% less or 15% less, I mean, that's what we all have to do. And that's all I'm asking is, you know, when it gets tight in this type of situation where, you know, we have 80,000 people unemployed at the moment. How do, you know, that's going to be a lot of people that aren't going to be able to pay property tax, depending on where they prioritize their money. So I'm just, I'm just thinking, you know, that, that's our revenue, right? That's our, that's our main bucket of revenue. And sure, we can, we can do more tax sales, but I don't like to do that. It's certainly in this type of situation.  But when it comes to, I don't know how many Berlin families, but there's probably quite a few that are unemployed right now and not able to pay bills. I would offer though, I'm being a person down now, cutting staff places, my office or safety in jeopardy and also places that community in jeopardy by cutting my staff. And I just don't have that flexibility. I am, if we were to look at the, if we're looking at the capital budget on new equipment, the capital, but there's so many echoes. I'm sorry. Could you repeat that? The capital budget on new equipment. Yeah. Yeah. What's coming up for a purchase this year? Well, I know that Tim wanted a greater, all for equipment. The other thing we were talking about was the culvert, which we probably will have to do. And I think what we were trying to do was to set aside $50,000 in a reserve every year, if we could towards buying the future. So we would not have to be financing it. Yeah. I suggest that in my memo. Can I, can I go back, Bill? I just had a quick question. I understand town safety, I understand officers in jeopardy. Do you provide a, I mean, how many, we don't have 24 seven. I know that's been your goal for coverage for a long time. Do we have any room whatsoever where we could reduce coverage and make sure everybody was safe and make sure that your officers were safe and the town had sufficient coverage. I mean, I know that we obviously have a contingency plan should Berlin not be available to Berlin residents. Just, well, here's the thing. I mean, I mean, it will speak more in executive session, but I mean, I have one that's out, one officer that's out, and we'll be out till August. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm filling some of the open nights with some part-time people waiting for the Academy to complete for my, the two can, or the can that we have in the Academy. So we're, we don't have 24 hours coverage completely now. Just, we were able to do it four days a week and I'm, I'm utilizing a part-time officer to do those. But the point is, we're down a person already until August. So we're really razor thin and with the homeless population that's been housed at the hilltop, our calls have increased. And I've been told on a couple of occasions by neighboring chiefs, look, you know, we've got our own work to do and you need to adequately staff your department. And the select board recognized this a couple of years ago and, and brought this department up to staff. And it's minimum staffing basically, it's minimum staffing to keep my officer safe and keep the residents of this community safe. And I realize that this is a tough time, but I hate to see something that would jeopardize their safety or the, or the safety of the public. Hey, Bill, what is a fully loaded officer cost? Meaning what's the fully outfitted cost at time of fire? You mean for equipment, John or? No, I'm talking time employee benefits, but the works. Well, it's depending on what level they become our experience level to start at, but they're a couple, three year levels, they're being salaries, I think in the mid 40s. And I don't know what the benefits adds on to that package. Dana, you would know roughly, or ballpark, I guess. It's in the annual report. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have the annual report in front of me, but I'm assuming it's probably about 30%. I would say you're right. I think it averages about $80,000 per officer. 80,000 total. Oh, I don't have the report here. It's flow on the call. I am. My flow. Good evening. Good evening. Well, you had some thoughts on this. Is there anything you wanted to add? Well, I want to add that I totally concur with everything that's been said, and I know it would be very difficult. And I'm not saying where the cuts need to be. We'd have to take a harder look at that, but I'm leaning toward a 15% cut. And I think we definitely need either a special board meeting or a few special board meetings to really seriously look at everything because we're in unprecedented times right now. And I really do think that we need to take some form of a cut, maybe not 15%, but we should seriously consider a cut given the situation we're in. I flow. How do you think, I mean, what's everybody's thoughts on how we should research this? I mean, where do you think we, as a board, we would get the best information to be able to make an educated decision? Anybody have any suggestions? I mean, I agree with you. We absolutely need to. I just don't know where, how did your most effective vote? Diane, could you take in getting, get a number as far as the, how do I say that? What we need is a number of the amount of monies that we can actually reduce. So when we're talking these percentages, you have to understand if we're talking 15% of the total budget or 15% of the budget, of parts of the budget, we can actually change. Okay. Because it's a big difference between 15% of the total budget and 15% of what we can actually do. And I agree. I think that when Dana and I were working with this, we were trying to go either 10% of the whole budget or 15% of the whole budget, not with appropriations, the budget less the appropriations to come up with a number. Because obviously appropriations, we can't do anything with. And that's where I think that we tried to show here are the projects we have going on. Maybe we don't buy a greater this year. Maybe we don't pay Granger Road. You know, I'm thinking of those with types of things we're trying to show. Not replace the culvert on Richardson. Right. Could we get each department head by chance to maybe look at their budget and show us what if we had to do a 15% budget cut and what it would look like from them? I don't see why not. We did send you an Analyzation of the budget though, which I assume you got. So I just think that each department had probably knows a little better than we do if push came to show what they could actually do. So I think their opinion would be tremendously valuable and researching this and trying to come up with a way to do it. Well, that would be Bill and myself and Tim. Can I offer something from the fire department? Absolutely, Joe. Okay, so this stemmed from a conversation I had several weeks ago with one of the select board members and possibly looking at decreasing the approved budget. At first we were talking about 10% and then it moved to 15. But I can tell you that the fire department has a fairly lean budget. But we have met several times and we have come up with something less than 10%. I'm not willing to share it. I don't necessarily think I approve all of it myself. But we're working on it just in case you guys want to do something like that on your side. Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Joe. Thank you. And I'll be quiet now. What would you like us to do? Well, I would say take and find out what the percentages are of the budget we can fiddle with and then we can take and go from there. Okay. Okay. So what you're saying, Brad, you wouldn't want like Bill, Tim or to look at maybe areas where they think possibly what it would look like if we reduced to 15%. The thing with the police department, you still have that contract. I really don't want to open that back up. The only place I can see in the police and even the road is probably in the equipment purchases and material purchasers. I had a couple thoughts in this type of situation where, you know, maybe the order not to cut people in order to keep everyone employed. We could talk with the union. We could talk with our employees, you know, get them all together so to speak and talk about a pay cut for the year that would keep everyone employed but potentially across the board a 10% cut, which I think our payroll for the years just over a million dollars, that would give us $100,000 right there off the top on the payroll side. I don't know what others think about that, but as I said before, I don't like to lay people off. It's always the last resort but in this type of situation, especially with part of the staff union, I know unions would rather sometimes take us a pay cut than to go ahead and reduce some of its membership. Just an idea. Anything else on this? What about the new cruiser? Have we ordered that yet? I planned on ordering that. The one that's coming offline now, I'm going to get, I have one going down this week, the new one that we got the last bunch of year to get put together, but the one that's coming offline has got over 100,000 miles on these cars. We normally have bought one a year just to keep the maintenance costs down and keep the state vehicle under them, but you know, that's live and work. I have not worked that out. I think it would be worse. You're going to look at all of that, like everything. I mean, even down to that detail right now, even if it's a short delay, I really fear for everybody in town. One of the things that is unknown is just how well we're going to come out of this. We may be a month behind, or we may be six months, or we may be a year behind. It's just hard to tell until we get some more information from the state and see how things are going to come together. I agree with that. We don't know, but I guess what I would ask Dana is, have you been looking into the Care Act money and whether or not local municipalities are eligible for any of that yet? I have looked at it, but I honestly don't know if we're going to be eligible for any of that until we can prove a loss of some. The thing that I'm really worried about is making some abrupt changes and then find out we reacted. Anyone else on this? I guess I'm looking for how to go forward. So we're going to meet with the department heads and come up with what we can find in our budgets that aren't necessary. Perhaps we can talk about a 10% pay cut. Highway, I suppose, materials really is the issue. I'm wondering if perhaps instead of a pay cut, we should take in, well, how to do this, to take in, if people, if you can get the employees to take in a pay cut for 10% or 15% or whatever it is, or a couple of months and then take in, see how it goes from there. Because once we, once we have that run of information, then we can take in, see if we need to extend it for another couple of months or it may not have to at all, I have to say. Dana, what if we ask the department heads, all department heads to go ahead and put together a budget that's minus 10%. What does it look like? Where would they come in? Okay. Colbert and Richardson, what's that doing Dana? Well, we've had the, a lot of engineering work done on that as you know, it's taken much longer than we had thought. We could cancel that. Although Richardson Rowe, that's the only access to that neighborhood. I am thinking that that is probably about 150 to 160,000 to finish that project. Is that budgeted money already? Yes. That's in the capital money. It's in the $250,000 capital line. Look at that too then. What was the other Colbert you were talking about? There was Richardson Rowe that I was talking about. We have a few projects that we wouldn't be able to do. The Lovers Lane Bridge would not be able to repair. We wouldn't be able to, where was I going with this, but we weren't be able to do Richardson Rowe and the other Colbert that is questionable on Fisher Road. But that wasn't in this year's budget. And we certainly couldn't replace the Road Grader. Although once they are done with the Road Grader and we can send it to Richmond, we're planning to as you instructed us to. If that's still the plan. Well, taking the fur of the buying of a new Grader, I would take it to have that one refurbished would be much more cost effective. I would agree. And we had not budgeted money for the new Grader. Okay. Any more on the hiring freeze or spending discussion? Yes. So from a spending perspective, Dana, one of the easy things that we can do is just have you put your eyes on all expenditures before they go out to make sure that you agree that they're essential. Okay. No, I'm saying, I mean, what are your thoughts on that? I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just saying like in my department, that's what I'm doing right now. I'm agreeing with you, John. Yeah. And I think, you know, the, especially in highway, he has jobs that he has scheduled to do. And I need to have more of a conversation with them. Are these jobs absolutely necessary? Or during this time, can we hold on? I think that's what you're telling me. And I'm agreeing with it. If you can Dana, get a sense from Tim, and as far as our other departments really, what Bill Keith brought up on the public safety part of it, because if that Cobra and Richardson Road sales, we've got what four or five families that will be able to get in and out. I think there's more than that actually, but yes. Yeah. But the thing would be just taking habits that we have an idea or a sense is what what the public is going to take and, you know, there's more than one way to suffer. And that is one that I'm applying for a grant for again this year from VTrans. I have not heard how VTrans grants are being affected. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, if there's nothing else on this, we will, we will meet and have something ready for you either the next meeting or if you'd like to meet earlier than that. So I guess I'm looking for your suggestion. Well, I think next meeting will be soon enough. I'll give you a time to get it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Approvals of licenses, permits, vouchers and applications. Do I hear a motion? Can I have a motion on the permit? Dana, the accounts payable warrant number, does it start with 20146? Let me read it. This would be to approve general funds accounts payable warrant 20G19 with checks 20146 to 20175 in the amount of $43,517.22. Also to approve payroll warrant 20-21 for payroll from March 29, 2020 to April 11, 2020, paid on April 15, 2020 in the amount of $41,941.82. Also to approve the March general journal entries to approve the March reconcile bank statements for the general fund, the sewer commission and the water division and finally the March budget status report file balance and delinquent tax report. Do I hear a solo? A second. I'll second that. Any further discussion? All in favor? All opposed? Motion carries. The public works board discussion regarding change of allocation charges. Yes, that was Rob is here to speak to that and Thomas is here to speak to that. There was a question raised about the change in how the allocations are calculated, the cost of it. Okay, Tom, I'll start in. I'm Rob Allen. I'm the chairman of the public works board and what we have on the sewer side of things and what we have is about 60 to 70,000 gallons of allocation. It's been issued to the folks in past years and it's still hanging out there as unused allocations. So what our pleasure would be to get that allocation back because it's a town asset that we just have it as needed. So that's, you know, we're not going to take it away from folks if they have it, but it's time for us to start charging a little fee if they want to keep their allocations. So I had a question about that and I own where 672 US 302 and that's a connected property with an allocation.  And I was wondering what the difference was. I mean, I don't know if you could elaborate on you to say that or not. Well, I will also say that we would plan to reimburse if they gave the allocation back to the board. We would reimburse their money that they paid so if I understand you, Justin, you had an allocation on some property? Well, I'm not speaking just about mine. I was just giving a few examples. So if you have a plan or maybe you don't have a good plan to use it, then you certainly want to keep it and have it available for you. But if you don't plan to use it and we would like it back so we could issue it to other folks and if you paid for it, we'll reimburse your money. So I see Tom, I see you got your hand up. I don't know if you want to put something in there. Go ahead. The answer to your question, Justin, is that the folks who are currently connected and as the property you have on 302 are paying for everything on the sewer side. And so this hearkens back to your earlier conversation that you just had about reducing costs to the majority of the security constituency is that as Rob mentioned, there is about 70,000 gallons of allocation that has been taken and that the average age of that allocation over 24 years old and they have not connected to the sewer system. So what the public's workbook has stated is that that allocation is a valuable asset and to help with the cost of the system as a whole, the public's work board is going to assess per gallon fee on those allocated, unconnected customers. What this does for the vast majority of our customers is lower their rates and understand I was just curious. My biggest question is it seems to me like I've got 8,000 gallons on the Barry Montpelier road and I'm not using it right now regardless of where I'm at, regardless of what my future plans may be. I'm afraid that that I don't know if it's targeting. I don't know if it's a bad thing. I mean it does seem like it could be subjective. Why wouldn't we charge everybody based on their allocation regardless of whether it's connected or unconnected? To me, what was the thought process behind only the unconnected? I get say you want it back it's a valuable asset and it would help with the fixed cost but why wouldn't we just charge based on allocation? Right now the entire sewer budget is based on use on a per gallon basis. So all these connected customers are paying their allocation portion. It's not like they're not paying allocation. They're paying for everything but what we're saying is a way to come up with a fair assessment for those folks who aren't connected but have an allocation. They have no usage. Everybody else pays by usage on a per gallon basis. What's a fair way to do that? And what the Public Works Board has decided is that for the fixed cost portion of the sewer system based on allocation, they should pay the fixed cost portion, not the variable cost. 50% of our operation is variable cost because what we send to the City of Montpelier for treatment, that's variable but 50% isn't. 50% is fixed cost and so the Board agrees that these folks who have had this allocation and asked of the town for in excess of 24 years on average should pay something. So your statement of everybody should pay by allocation, we're not that way. We're trying to change our billing. It's not an overnight process. I think in the future you're going to see a billing, two pieces of the billing like you see on the water side where we're using the water side as a good example where there's two pieces of the water bill. One is for debt service and one is for usage. And it won't be this upcoming budget year but I'm shooting for 2021-2022 is that's how the sewer budget will look. There'll actually be two pieces, one for usage and one for the fixed cost. Call it allocation, call it whatever you want to call it. So do we have anybody or other properties that are overallocated that they're not? I mean what on average is everybody using 90% of their allocation and that's how we're recouping the fixed cost with the exception of this 70,000 gallons? The vast majority of our customers are overallocated. We have an allocation granted of about 400,000 gallons and we have an actual usage of a lot of 180,000 gallons of a day. So the vast majority are overallocated. So it's a large overallocation? I'm sorry? Yes, it's a large overallocation. We're allocated to a lot of individual, not necessarily just people. People have a much larger allocation around their actual usage. When people come in to request allocation, it's based on a state formula and history has shown that that state formula is pretty conservative and the typical households do not use as much as that formula shows.  How much is that in say on a thousand gallons? I can't come up with that number. That's not how I think about those. Right now we charge a penny a gallon. That's half a cent a gallon and it's fixed cost. So if you use 5,000 gallons a quarter, half of that is fixed cost, half of it is fixed cost. So other than taking back or repurchasing these allocations or this gallonage, what are you going to do with the ones who don't want to give it back? Are you going to take it or sell it back? Are you going to give them or bill them for the 50% percent? Yes. So sounds good to me. I mean, if you have purchased it, well the other question is what they pay comfortable with what they would have to pay to repurchase it now? The vast majority of the 70,000 gallons, there was no purchase on it. We have about $7,000 on our books for the 70,000 gallons. That was allocated. So the vast majority there wasn't even any allocation to charge to it. So they've been getting kind of the free ride? Bob, I'll let you answer that one. Well, you know, I would use the term free ride. Many, many years ago, you remember Brad, but most people here, that when the, when they first got allocation from the city, quite a lot of it was just given out so that the town of Berlin would bring in business. There was no purchase. It wasn't purchased. A lot of it was just issued to developers. And then at some point it became necessary to start charging a term for allocation. But a lot of that 70,000 gallons was issued way back in the beginning. It was not purchased by the individual. Was that when they started giving or when the allocations were given out? That was at the time Montpelier re-did the sewer plant? Yeah, that's when they built their sewer plant, I think. Was that back in the, back in the as I remember? Well, they had a plant there and then they expanded it quite a bit. Well, that would have been the time then, Brad. Yeah. Okay. So do we pay the city of Montpelier a fixed cost per an allocation, per gallons of allocation that we have? If we need it, when the time comes for us to purchase more allocation, we'll have to purchase every Montpelier, yes. Right. But that doesn't have anything to do with our fixed cost today, right? I mean, if we've got, the town has 600,000 gallons of allocation total, right? Yes. Yes. And we've allocated roughly, what, 400,000? That's what Tom said. About 460. 460, okay. So that 460 or the 600,000 that we have an allocation from the city do, we don't have a fixed monthly quarter lease, semi-annual or annual charge associated with that? No. So there are fixed costs that are just simply associated with our debt and our maintenance, right? Yes. So I'm just, I mean, I get wanting that allocation back and wanting to get that back so we can reuse it, but we, I don't know that we, do we have an immediate need to reallocate that somewhere else? I'm just curious, I'm trying to figure this out. Well, it's interesting, you know, we have this new town center and the, about a year old now, the public support board commission, their engineer to come up with, what, if there was complete build out on that new town center, what would it be from a wastewater standpoint? And it's about 250,000 gallons a day, a complete build out on that on the new town center. It's not going to build out immediately, but we're, you're already seeing applications, probably be groundbreaking on that 98 unit senior housing project over there, this, there's another housing and daycare proposed over on the new town center. So do we need all of it today? No, but it's been in, but again, it's been in the hands of folks for 24 years and they have not developed their projects. Right. I'm, I'm, I get that. So if a new development goes into the town in the new town center, they're going to pay an allocation that just went up to $5 per gallon, right? And what does that cost us at the city of Montpelier? Till we buy new allocation? Yeah, what do we pay the city of Montpelier for new allocation? Isn't it $5 a gallon? That's a break even. The city has given us, we have a 600,000 gallon, if we, if we buy above 600,000 gallons, then we're going to have to buy a purchase. Yeah. And we, that would be a negotiated price, Justin, I don't know what that would be right now. So right now, if you get a total build out at the town center, you'd be 110,000 gallons short. Correct. Without any other development in town. And how much allocation is out there that's not being used? About 70,000 gallons. So there's no way to spread that out at all. I mean, it just, I'm trying to wrap my head around it. I get wanting the 70,000 gallons back, but that doesn't fix the whole thing anyway. But I mean, obviously I have 8,000 gallons on the very Montpelier Road. I'm not going to be charged like you're saying because I don't know if we don't have an ordinance in place to cover that because it hasn't been an X number of years or what the issue is, but if I got 8,000 gallons and I'm not utilizing it, I would think that that would be no different than unconnected allocation. It seems to me like you would spread it across to everyone in just in scenario that he's explaining. I mean, why wouldn't he be charged the same as someone in the unallocate or the bucket that they're just leaving it unallocated and unused? So right now, let's just say it's $600,000 cost to run the sewer system. Everybody who is connected today is paying for that. You could call it allocation. You could call it whatever you want to call it. They're being paid off based on their usage though, right? That's the portion they're paying, correct? Correct. They're being paid for their usage. So if I have zero usage but I'm connected and I have 8,000 gallons a day, I'm definitely not paying proportionally. That's why I'm using that as an example because it's so skewed that I think that's where my concern is. Well, the way the public's workboard is looking at what fee to assess the unused, the allocated unconnected is taking all allocation, dividing it by our fixed cost by our total allocation that's taken and whatever that dollar is to say it's 80 cents. So 80 cents a gallon of unconnected allocation charged to those folks who have taken allocation. Is there a way that the has the works board looked at a way where they looked at it just simply based on allocation across the board for everybody? I mean, that's not yet. I mean, they built on a per gallon forever, I think, Rob. Yeah, I've been there. That's common of other municipalities, Tom, is charged for usage. And so we're going to a billing system, trying to move to a billing system, which will let us bill our fixed costs, not on a useless basis because right now our fixed costs are built on usage. If our usage is down, which, you know, with the way this year is now with the COVID-19 issue, we have a potentially of having a deficit on our books because everything is usage. What we want to go to is very similar as the wire system. It's a split bill, well, the split for the fixed cost is covered, and then there's a usage piece. It's the best management practices out there. Most utilities do it that way. We just can't change it overnight. Tom, how are you envisioning enacting this? Well, in the sewer ordinance that the town's legboard adopted in January, it allows us to do this. Are you going to give the owners of the allocation a chance to sell it back or give it back? How do you see that working? So I've talked to nearly all these customers, and there's not a great deal of customers. There's maybe 20 customers that hold this $70,000. I've talked to all of them, told them of the plan of the public's work board to go down this, and they are choosing if they want to receive an invoice and keep that allocation or rescind their allocation and give it back to the town. And how was that received? Did they seem receptive to making that change? Well, nobody has said, I've had a spoke to one of the largest parcels today. They have 25,000 gallons on one parcel. They believe they're, and they didn't pay for any of that allocation, they believe they're going to give it back. And the rest of them? Have you heard back from them? I've heard of a handful that said they'll likely give it back. They haven't definitively said that. I've had two say they want to keep their allocation or pay for it on their board. It makes sense to me the way you described it. Tom or Rob, you having more on this? I'm good. I'm good. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for explaining that. So I appreciate it. You're welcome. Thanks. Okay. Dana, Jeffrey Olski. Yeah, Jeff is on with you. He is working on a project on route two for Capital City with new construction. And they wish the town's permission to extend water sewer lines. It's Montpeliers, water and sewer, not ours, over to the new site. So I'll let you speak with Jeff. Yeah, good evening, everyone. Thanks for the time. My name is Jeff Olski with Catamal Consulting Engineers. I'm a civil engineer for the owners of the existing Capital City GMC Carburetorship. I'm sure you're all familiar with that site. Long story short is they own a few properties on the opposite side of route two there. They've owned for some time. They're right now at 1189 route two is an existing parking lot that supplements the existing car dealership. And then they also own a couple properties. One's 12 Marvin Road. The other is 40 Goodmau Road that are kind of some residential properties on a narrow, but it's really not being used. And what they've been looking at doing is essentially redeveloping all three of those lots on the south side of route two. The existing parking lot and these two residential properties with a new car dealership that would house both Volkswagen and Mazda. And long story short is we're in a conceptual design phase right now, but we're trying to determine the best way to serve this new car dealership from a water and sewer system. As some of you may be aware, the existing Capital City GMC facility is served by municipal water sewer connection to the City of Mount Piliers system directly via directionally drilled services that go underneath the Winnieski River and tie it to Piliers lines on Gallisom High Railway. We had preliminary conversations with both Dan and Tom as well as Kurt Modekoff from the City of Mount Piliers and kind of received preliminary feedback from all parties that they'd be amenable to allowing us to extend these services underneath route two via directional drilling to essentially provide additional service, municipal water and sewer service to this new Volkswagen Mazda car dealership. One thing I was prepared to do tonight, I don't know Dan if you had an opportunity to share the plans. I'm happy to pull them off and share them on screen now if people would like me to do that or if they have access to them and they're at home. I had shared your letter. I did not send them your conceptual drawings. If it's okay with the board now I'd like to just share screen share the site plan existing and then the proposed site plan maybe visualize it a little better if that's okay with you. Sure, go ahead. Okay, so right here this is our overall existing condition site plan. We have the existing Capital City GMC dealership here directly across the street at the 1189 property that has existing parking lot here, this being Marvin Road and this is Goodnell Road and these this large property here is the 12 Marvin Road property and 40 Goodnell is here and so what we'd be doing is removing this parking lot, removing these residential houses and then ultimately going to pull up the here with me a second that's what I'm looking for. So this would be the proposed site plan just again very conceptual nature but the parking lot here would be the home to a new mobile swag and Mazda dealership and these properties over here would be developed through supplemental parking areas. So the concept would be the backside of the Capital GM dealership here we have municipal water and municipal sewer from back behind the building we directly drill underneath the existing parking lot to Capital City and route 2 and provide water and sewer service directly over here via the City of Montpelier. We've got preliminary approval from the City of Montpelier and so we just figured because these services are ultimately in town of Berlin it'd be best to share this concept with you see if we get some type of preliminary approval as well so that we are confident we won't need to provide on-site water and sewer for this new facility and you know I guess with that I'll hand it back over to the board with any questions. Well I personally see no problem you know that. Looks good to me. Yeah I know just to clarify I think that's what I'm looking for is a preliminary approval from the Slack board so that we at least know the concept is good there's obviously a lot of details to work out and we will do those in coordination with both agency transportation City of Montpelier and the town of Berlin public works so that everybody's comfortable with design plans as we move forward. I make the motion for preliminary approval if everyone's in agreement. Your second. I don't suppose I can second this. Sorry I lost my microphone for you for a second. Sure Jeff try it. I can try. I second. I'll second it. I'll second it. All in favor. Hearing none those in favor. Those opposed. Motion carries. Jeff wish you well. Wish you well. Okay thanks everyone for your time tonight I appreciate it. Thank you Jeff. Thank you. Okay approval for local emergency management plan. And we have Bruce with us. He could give you a little update because he's working on the update. Good evening everyone. This is Bruce Richardson on the emergency management team. I hope you can hear me okay. Yeah this is the annual update required by Vermont emergency management for our town's emergency or local emergency management plan. We have gone through several of the annexes with the what we feel are the most important information and verified the names and phone numbers in it specifically annexes one which are the contacts for the team appendix or annex three the media contacts that we would reach out to in the case of an emergency to get information out and also annex for the high-risk population particularly important that we want to make sure we can reach out and contact those people in the event of an emergency. Most of the rest of the document is largely the same as it was last for last year's version. We just need to have this approved by the select board and submitted to the state by one May. Do I hear a motion on this? Yeah I move to approve the local emergency management plan and do we authorize Dana to sign that? Actually here are it would it would need you'd want to authorize Brad to sign it. Bruce is that right? There's two signatures here. I believe as long as it somebody has either ICS 100 or ICS 402 for the so I could sign it I have the ICS 100. So I approve I move to approve the local emergency management plan and have Dana sign it for the board. Can I second the motion? Any further discussion? Hearing none those in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? Motion carries. Thank you Bruce. Thank you very much for your time tonight. Thank you Bruce. Okay select board liaisons the committee's We had started talking about this at your last meeting. At that meeting John expressed interest on for the economic development board. Justin for planning Justin for public works. Cemetery Commission Conservation Commission.  What about the police? And police. I'll also interject that I have interest in the public work for it as well. What a liaison to each board. The trouble with two is that we're taking and become confusing to who is going to be there and who wasn't. Which one do you want to do first day? Well I just want and I guess my thought is that not all of these committees probably need a lot of visitation. I'm just trying to get so there's better communication. Um the cemetery commission for example um unless there's only we're we're short three members on that from a five member board so and but that is not a really active committee. Um because none of our cemeteries are active. I think it would be good to have someone in the conservation commission and um I don't believe you voted on any of the others yet. Just people have expressed interest. So hey John do you have any interest in any particular boards? Excuse me as I'm you. Dana which one's tonight? You had said that you were interested in the economic development board John and that's the only one I had for you so far. Okay. Oh let's just get going one by one. Does anybody else? So I guess I'd go down one by one Brad and just start and see who wants to be on it. So what's first? Oh I'm sorry you don't have a list. Well it's just on my computer so I hear you. I'm gonna get with it. Um all right cemetery commission is first. Okay conservation commission is the next. I think that would be a good one to have a representative from the board on. The conservation commission has been reorganized in the past year and they are working very hard to become active and they now have a full board. I can do that one. Move to a point Brad. Count to the conservation commission as representative. I second the motion. Economic Development Board. John expressed interest for that. That committee meets on occasion. They don't have regular meetings but also it would be a good time to relook at the town's policy on its tax stabilization program. Move to a point. I make a motion to appoint John to the Economic Development Board. Here's second. All those in favor? All right. Motion carries. Highway Department Justin had expressed interest in highway. I make the motion to appoint Justin to the highway commission. Second. Our highway department I should say. Second that. Any further discussion? All those in favor? All right. Next one. Planning commission is next. Justin had expressed interest in that and again that was last meeting so I'm not sure if he's still interested or not. What was that one Brad? Or what was that one Dana? Planning. Well you had mentioned some interest in that as well right? No I actually hadn't. I was interested in the public work. Okay I'm definitely still interested and really kind of helped there. Your nomination? I nominate Justin to the planning commission. Second. The next is the police department. I need a second. I can't make a second. Second. All those in favor? All those opposed? Motion carries. Now you're at police. Now you're at police. Any volunteers? I'll do it. Move to appoint John Quinter for his department. I second the motion. Any others? All those in favor? Motion carries. Public Works Board. I make a motion to dominate Justin. Public Works. That's that's that's what you had expressed interest in Justin was Public Works. No I did the planning commission. I think Flo had interest in the Public Works. I got a mixed up. I nominate Flo for the Public Works. I'll second that. All those in favor? Motion carries. The next one is recreation. And that board has just become formed and we haven't met yet due to the pandemic. So you may want to hold on that one. And finally the last is the liaison to the Berlin Fire Department. Make a motion to nominate Justin. I hear a second. Any other nomination? Those in favor? I need a hand count here. I heard at least three. Motion carries. Anything else on this Dana? No thank you. A reappointment of Tree Warden Deputy Tree Warden. The Tree Warden Deputy Tree Warden. Best out is the Tree Warden. Dave's out is the Deputy. It's a one year post and they are both amenable to be reappointed. Make a motion to reappoint. Second. Any other discussion? All in favor? Motion carries. The Town Road Policy David. This is a project still in process. I have changed how I'm approaching the last call that we had talked about which was the change in classification by having a road policy that encompassed. So I am looking for input from you. It's not going to come back. I don't know a lot of the history here but could you give me the two minute short version again just to cycle my brain on this topic Dana? We've had a lot of discussion about the Town's approach to changing road classifications and how we would go about doing it. There is a very definite method to do it and we certainly have to abide by the state statute on it but this is also to I guess help clarify us of procedure of how we go forth when we have these questions come before us. So I think some of it was based on existing roads like class 4 roads being upgraded to class 3 or vice versa downgraded from 3 to 4. I think it should encompass. Obviously we have any new development but it should work in conjunction I think probably with our zoning. I mean if we're started then we do have some areas here in Berlin Corners that have potential for development on class 4 roads and I think it's more appealing with services. It'll increase our tax revenue or if people did develop there and it really doesn't cost the town anything to do this. So we had talked about we looked at some of the figures. Dana do you remember remember roughly what it was per mile of class 3 road that it cost the town to maintain after state reimbursement? Any of that? I should Justin but I don't have like my history. I don't have those numbers either. I should have them. Sorry. It was minimal. It wasn't minimal but it wasn't huge. But I thought we should have a policy in place that encouraged development on some of these roads and if the town was going to allow for permits on some of these roads and it wasn't going to cost the town any money to bringing the road out because with state statute our existing class 4 roads can be reclassified as a class 3. Then we should consider that as an option if we're going to be maintaining and maintaining in any way shape or form. Dana on some of this there's also some town trails that are on the books and your road policy should take and cover that too because some of those roads that we reduced out of trails limit vehicle traffic. I can add those. The only thing with the trails of course some of them were pretty poor repair. It will take some some monies to bring them back up but I would think that if people want them brought back up they should be able to take some of that fee or all of it. I think the class 4 trails are in a different category than the class 4 roads when you read the state statute Brad. We still we still on the right. Correct. Yeah no I'm talking about the upgrade and downgrade and downgrade piece like that. So I think we could keep it completely separate so that if they wanted to bring it up they would have I just I'm just I'm agreeing with you I guess is what I'm saying. The class 4 trails are different than our current class 4 roads so we can maintain it and still require them to bring it up with the cost. Yeah trails are one step below a class 4. Right. And the one I'm thinking of is West Hill that comes back over by Benji. Nope. And I think there's a couple other sections well even Black Road goes to the class from the class 4 to a trail but comes back on the other side to a 3. So those should be included just taking to everything uniform. Okay. I would think that when we were talking about an upgrade we would want to consider our revenue so I don't know if it's I don't know if it's based on a number based on a number of dwelling units per distance because that's going to give us an average average. I am trying to keep it in in conjunction with what the zoning code says and so and I think you said that and it does specify the requirements of developers that are developing on a class 4 road. Sorry. If you if you do that it would be interesting to see we'll see what it comes out but on class 4 you have any feeling from zoning about how the housing density. I would rather get the code in front of me and read it does specify the housing density and and other factors that they consider. Okay. Well that sounds good. I guess I want to know if I'm on the right I'm on the right trail. It sounds how long do you think before you would have some idea of something you present to the board. Probably next meeting. Okay. That would be great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Dana. Do you want to approve annual highway financial plan? Yes this is the annual report that is done for VTrans and basically they are ensuring that the town is in compliance with the amount of money that we're spending on road maintenance. Every year I work with VTrans to come up with these figures expenses that we put for class 2 roads and class 3 roads to get a total. So the total that we have this year is 1,319,775. That is considering some paving work that we're planning. Again that may not happen this year but that's okay if we change our minds. So I need the board to just approve this so I can submit it to you. Do I hear a motion? Do I hear a motion to approve? Second. Any further discussion? All those in favor? All those in favor? Aye. Okay. Motion carries. Discussion on Crosstown Road. As you know Tim closed Crosstown Road late last week. I have spoken with the resident over there who expressed his concern and I did see emails from board members today regarding Crosstown Road. I spoke with Tim on Crosstown Road today or about Crosstown Road and he asked if it could remain closed another week that he felt it needed another week to be closed but ultimately of course it's up to the board what they would like but their pleasure is.  No but it wasn't as bad last time I was down there which was maybe a week and a half ago. I didn't think it was as bad as it had been in previous years although you know we did try and limit traffic on it. I don't know how successful that was but I think that helped it somewhat. I've been on that road and I was honestly shocked that it got barricaded. It seems like it's the best I've ever seen it. I was shocked at how well it was really. I mean I don't know if it was a cost savings measure and that's why we closed it but I figured after the email went out to the board that he wanted to put the signs up. I thought that seemed to work really well maybe it was a mild mud season but I was surprised that it actually got barricaded. Justin when you were on it was there any soft spots or was it muddy stretches or was it just the only spot I noticed that was soft but it wasn't. I mean how you could be easily driven a two-wheel drive car through it was that typical spot between Mike and Mike Richard or Gary Richard things down to the corner there. You know by the whole Boyer Farm or Boyer State but just after Mike's. I don't know what happens if you open it up but I mean I think that people were probably taking it when like I don't know I mean I'm sure it got some reduction in traffic but yeah there's just one spot that that's you know muddy at this point Brad from what I could see the rest of it was pretty nice. Better than most other back roads are pretty viral which I think is fine. So you know I it's that one spot you can go around it. It's not bad at all. I would I would like personally I think that's a pretty crucial piece of road. I think it would be great if we could keep it open. I'm just looking here at the weather forecast. It's supposed to rain hard tomorrow and then Wednesday well until Sunday it's supposed to be fairly warm so we should dry it out. So why don't we take and see about Wednesday. It seems reasonable if we got a storm coming in. Well I'm just thinking that the rain will draw the frost out by Wednesday or Thursday. It should pretty well be done. Yeah I mean I think it probably is now but I agree with you. Okay Danny can you tell Tim? Yes I can. Thank you Dana. Thank you. I mean and now the footbridge. The Phil Gentile and Tom Willard brought to my attention the poor condition that the footbridge on the Darling Road trail is. And they did show me pictures. There's a lot of rot and they would like to have it repaired. They have an estimate for 4500 and they're suggesting that it come out of the conservation fund although I'm not sure if we can do that but I can follow through to see how that was set up. They feel it's an emergency and needs to be repaired. Is it a public safety thing? That's what they feel. Yes. Could we get a recommendation from the conservation committee? That's their recommendation. Oh they are the conservation committee. Okay I apologize. That's okay. Have we I know this is probably bringing up something from the past too but have we ever looked at utilizing I mean I know we have looked at it on a rephrase that. Has anybody thought recently about like vast and all that. I mean I didn't have any snow field traffic barely by my house but I know that they would fund a lot of those projects. That's a good question Justin. I do not know where the vast trail is. Would they use that area or not? There's that missing connector piece on Black Road. Yeah so it goes this by my house and I know vast was interested in tying into that trail because that would tie it into the Northfield trail system. Yeah and if they were to do if they were able to tie in I'm fairly certain we could probably leverage them to build a bridge for us at no expense that everybody could. Are you saying that if and I would talk to vast but if if they could make that they haven't made that connector have they. That's the only piece they're missing it is basically from my house or Josh Walker's house down to the Irish trailhead and if they were able to make that connection I bet they I'm sure that they would do an amazing amount of maintenance and I wonder how that the committee would feel about working with vast for starters and if it was to be something they would even want to consider but I think that we could utilize some of these outdoor recreation associations to help pay for some of this infrastructure in town that taxpayers would generally pay for. I think that's a good idea to explore I mean I've kind of wondered myself why there isn't a connector over I think it would bring a lot of economic development track traffic over to the store and over at Applebee's and over to the area and you know if we were to be able to open up that trail and pass and pay for the bridge or help with the bridge I think it's a win-win for everyone. All day long you get a chance to talk to Bassey and report back to us next meeting. I can talk with Matt but I cannot I don't have any suggestions on how to make the connector. They were property owners there that were very adamant that they were not amenable to it but I will talk with Matt J. Trollathass. I just think it would be worth exploring for the town and talking about I think that we've had what two years maybe a full year and then partial year of the snowmobile trails through the four corners yeah and I don't think it was nearly as impactful as maybe people suspected so it may it may be worth talking about again and it may not be but it can't hurt. You know I know the committee was anxious to have this job done fairly quickly. I can talk with and see what they tell me about. Okay yeah I mean it would the did the committee tell you just how bad the bridge was? They gave me pictures which I will email to you tomorrow. It's in Corsay. Does the bridge stand or a broker something or is it? Yes it does and I asked if you could get around it without using the bridge and you could but it is kind of a rugged crossing. I got you. Well we can take in see what they say hopefully for next meeting Dana and we can take and consider the replacement of the bridge or we can even consider whether we could just basically save the money if it comes down to it. And again these are their funds that are in their conservation funds. Brad you're muted I'm not hearing you. What's that? Okay you are muted so I can hear you. Okay this is all I'm doing. Me too.  So yeah just take in see what what Bass says there is they're showing interest or not and then we'll go from there. Fair enough. The next thing on the agenda was Mirror Lake Parking I guess it is. Yeah that was from Angelina. Yeah so Ellen drysail sent an email to us. I don't know if you guys got it. Hold on I'm pulling it up. Just talking about how for years it's been open for parking for people to get out and exercise and considering you know people's mental health and being in quarantine she feels the road isn't blocked. So I'm I'm just wanting to know do we know why it's been blocked and the road is blocked? It's not blocked. Are you I drove down I mean John that's on the way to your house. I think you're talking about and I think you're probably referencing Brookfield Road. Mirror Lake Road is the backside where we replaced the Culver. Brookfield Road is the part where the pump house is. She says hold on I'll just read it. Dear select board for the 41 years I've lived on Berlin Pond especially in the springtime as many as a couple dozen cars have been parked on the side of the road at the north end as their occupants enjoy the quiet and beauty of the five mile loop on the other end of the pond in all season fishermen kayakers duck hunters and duck hunters park sorry my phone went out park on the other side of the road on Mirror Lake Road in the north end especially the road is wide and the cars parked on the edge pose no danger to through traffic visibility is good and there's plenty of room. Unsurprisingly this year has been especially busy as people are frantic to get out of their houses get some exercise and enjoy social distancing safely at this time. I'm happy to slow down and wave at the steady stream of walkers runners and bikers as they get some respite from the stressful times. We're all in this together right there's a lot of talk about being kind to each other. I've been disturbed and embarrassed recently to see the new no parking sign and concrete block appear at the north end of the pond. My embarrassment turned to astonishment and dismay when I heard from a friend who found that her sister's car had been towed from the north end of the pond. This resulted in the two of them having to get into the remaining car together after carefully observing the six foot distancing visit the police department and then such a car a couple miles away and pay $85 to the tow guy. Both women are vulnerable in in their 70s and were needlessly made to take unnecessary risk with three close contacts that they otherwise would not have made. She's appalled she says I strongly urge you to discontinue the towing unless a car is flagrantly blocking traffic take down the no parking sign and remove the concrete block. Perhaps you could replace the sign with one welcoming pedestrians and giving a list of safety precautions. I'd like to see my town actively seeking ways to help rather than hinder its residents and visitors and coping with the difficulties we are all facing. Sincerely Ellen Drysdale. I was on the road this morning and as far as I told you I believe the highway had cars towed out there when he was doing road meetings but my knowledge we haven't told people. The north. If this pandemic I mean I mean we've been even more accommodating because we realize as this lady pointed out people need to get out of their house you need to take a walk and you need to you know get out of this quarantine that you know you can stuck in their house so we've we've understand that we take that into account but mirror like rose white. Right she references the north side which the north side's the side closest Brookfield road. There are there are cones up there but there were still some parking spots this morning. Right right and there is a small block there but if I recall I drove around there the other day if I recall it's not really blocking any parking that would normally be parking is it and there's the no heart. We haven't added any have we other than maybe adding adding newer signs or other ones that kind of been worn or what. We haven't added any signs of my knowledge and the fact that over the weekend there were quite a few people on the pond and cars were parked along the southern road and we monitored it and they were not posing a problem we were able to get fire equipment and ambulance and work people through there if we needed to and we didn't push the issue because you know we realized people need to get out. Bill where's that where's the block they're talking about? The only thing I think of is we're just saying on the other side there on the the north side close to the cross town. Right up by the pump house the new where we put the new parking area and a little launch area Brad yeah you're not you're not talking about the the fishing boat access right after it on the left where there's that little pull-off area before you get to the pump house. Did Tim put the block there or is it Montilier? I think Montilier might have done that. They may have and it's it's not like it's blocking people from going through there it's not really interfering with that parking area I don't think. What I can tell is it looks like it's trying to say where the parking area stops right it's trying to define that parking area saying okay you know this is kind of the end of it because people have been parking all the way down through the road probably on the grass on Montilier's property near the pump house or as you head that way that's that's I don't know who put the block there I mean people are just parking around it anyways but I think that's what they were trying to do with the block is say who is the end of the parking area. So Bill you didn't take an issue or you didn't have any cars towed and did um Tim have any done? I believe he did. I was that was a week or so ago. Yeah I was um was informed after the fact and I was also had told him that in the future to notify the police department and they would take care of it by helping instead of hindering. I'm not quite sure what this place but let me talk to Tim and see why there are signs there if that's on our traffic ordinance or not. I think we're talking Brookfield Road and not Merrill Lake. We are but that's the north side so yeah. The the other thing is is if Tim was there grading and the car was blocking the grader I can see it having it towed. I think that was the case Brad. Okay well maybe that was. Yeah do we have an actual policy around when we tow, when we don't? Well through violation of the parking ordinance we try to find the operators first and have them move the vehicles. I mean worst case scenario if like we've had this this happened that when they first opened the pond up on Merrill Lake Road the cars were so bad that you couldn't get a fire truck through there and we did have to have a few towed then but it's our policy that's the last resort. But I guess yeah I understand that that makes complete sense but do we have a policy on who can call the tow company? Is it? Well by statute any agent in the town. Okay so Tim Davis has a highway only set up with an agent in the town. Okay so he can cause those vehicles to be removed if they're hindered, if they're made of operations, snow plowing, road grading, that kind of stuff. Got it. Anything else on this, Angela? No I just wanted to you know respond to that email and and figure out what was going on with that. I don't know if there's a solution. I want to be glad to speak with Tim tomorrow and go over and take a look. I need to see it myself because I'm not quite sure about this block and if it's something that Montpelier did obviously I can't help with that but let me go over take a look at the sign, talk with Tim and I will let you know but and if the board is amenable to allow parking there if it's and I'll talk to Bill a little further about if it's safe for people to park there which I think he's telling me yes. Why don't we go from there? I'll be glad to do that. Well from what I can understand in every way's description where that block is is about the Montpelier property line and anything beyond that going south on Brookfield Road is up to Montpelier. Right at that point and my only question is is whether it's in the right of way. Sure. Well John I think it would be in the town's right of way. Our discretion is not to have them if they're on their property completely on their property out of the town's right of way that's a different story but if they're in our right of way then that's really a call for me or an agent of the town. No no I'm talking about the block. If it's Montpelier's block if Montpelier put the block there did they put it in our right of way or is it completely on their property? It's going to be close. Well I mean if Montpelier to me that block is no different than a fence along the side of road it may be the town's right of way but it's the property owner's property. If they're trying to keep people from parking on their property even though it's the town's right of way I'm not sure just where the law goes with that one but like John said they're parking next to it anyway and it's right you know it's something that basically falls back on us I mean it they're parking next to the concrete block that's not hurting anything in most cases it's not hurting anything so you know if it's the point in time where you've got had this on where like cars on both sides of the street you know and you can't get a fire truck or an ambulance that's a different story but most people they'll all park on one side of the road to go for their walk and they leave and it's not a big deal 99% of the time it's not a huge deal. I think this time it was that Kim Felton was hindering his maintenance of the road for the public. You know that's a different story I mean that was his call I wasn't involved in that one. Okay anything else on this thing? Anything else on this? No does anybody want to respond to her with that information? I guess I wouldn't know I don't know the area very well over there. I think we need to I think Dana needs to talk with Tim and see what the circumstances were before anyone can really respond at this point right? Yeah sounds good. I will do that now like now. Okay okay um approval subboard minutes for April 6th. So moved. Back in back in. All those in favor? All right. What abstention? Okay Justin liquor board. Move to recess the barrel and select board and enter into the liquor board. Sorry. Here's second. I second that. All in favor? You have an application for a second class liquor license for Martin Thomas. He is opening a business called Thomas Farm and Garden at 535 U.S. Route 302 and he is going to be having a farm store. So he puts it a few groceries and he would like to sell beer and wine. Any history on this fellow? This has come through the liquor uh liquor commission and um they had no objections. Move to approve? Here's second. Second. A second. All those in uh any further discussion? All those in favor? All right. Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Entertain a motion. A motion to adjourn the liquor commission. Motion to adjourn. Second the motion. Would you include that motion uh to reconvene the select board? Second the motion and to reconvene the select board. All those in favor? The minister is reporting. I just had um I had just sent to the minutes of the emergency management um team that recently man other than that it's been it has been very stressful with the um pandemic um a lot of people have been very I think getting very nervous about it so I and we've been dealing with it um we've been working with how we're going to do business and I think it's gone fairly well it's uh it's a hard time for everyone I know so that's really all I had to say. Dana when you say um people have been stressed about it are you talking about our employees or the public that you've spoken with or both? Both yeah. Bill how's how are your officers doing with uh patrols are they concerned with uh light or health safety issues of you know contact? Oops pardon me um they're very concerned and they're they're out there day in and day out you know when uh facing this head on so the the anxiety level is relatively high and given this is already a stressful occupation as you know it's kind of adding to it so we're doing our best to uh show up every day and do our job and um I've I'm having pretty good luck now with the PPE supply um the state that's been providing some of that stuff with no costs to the town so I've got masks and sanitizer now finally last weekend sanitizer and um face shields and goggles and stuff like that so I'm we're we're staffing our employees adequately with PPE um but again it's it's very stressful the fact too that um the state has is housing there was as a last week housing nearly 85 people at the helicopter and transient population um it adds to our work load significantly um and again there we've got the state is now placing staffing in there things are getting a little better now they've done they did um some rapid testing there last Friday and found that there was no active cases uh at the facility which was good news for us because we were concerned about that as well but um but um there was hard to get us handling the people's social distancing in there and it's it's getting better but still as 80 people in a better house they're under one roof it gets a little contentious of time so it's adding to our workload and our our stress a little bit and you guys are getting called there yes yeah I'm just wondering Bill is domestic violence gone up at all the message violence so far has kind of stayed where it is um we're finding people now are just becoming a little tired of being cramped in their house and we're getting uh calls a lot of people just want to talk a lot of people you know we we've changed our response because of this we don't respond to every call in person now because for obvious reasons we do longer on the phone but uh right now we're holding our own with the message to have an increased uh to a great degree but I I see that perhaps changing if uh the longer we are on this lockdown so you know it's an inherent risk it's you know we have to do it it's uh I think good policy to do it but it comes with some other baggage attached do you see this changing how you actively work in the future I mean have I mean have you know you're you said you're taking some calls you would typically respond to you're you're doing over the phone with those maybe for the initial do you think that's a good practice that you could leave down the road to be maybe increase efficiency or anything but I just I don't think that's how you serve the community um during normal times when we're virus free when people call they should see police officer at the residence that's what they pay taxes for and that's what we that's the service we strive to provide it's just that we had to take these measures now because of the panel so no so no not well I'm sorry yeah that the short the short answer is no but there you know we're always looking there are some efficiencies I think we can lean from this but you still have your exposure you still need to be in the community the community still needs to know we're here and okay uh thank you bill thank you thank you anything else uh no thank you okay round table round table Justin nothing here John nothing tonight I think tonight flow it was just one thing I had and it was an email I sent to me uh Dana regarding a neighbor of mine who approached me about Pine Hill Drive and just seeing if Tim could take a look if they can do something when they have a chance it's not urgent but my neighbor was concerned that some of the plant mix has been pushed off during the winter season to the side which is part of the normal spring cleanup and I know with the pandemic right now it's difficult to do all of that but my neighbor has done like about three sides of his property and the side coming toward our house and on his property as well there's just a lot of push-off there and I'm willing to do my part I'll you know rake some of that back too because I know Tim's busy but that's the only thing that I just wanted to dress tonight because I told Mike Spencer that I would okay thank you for um thank you all I just wanted to um go back to the swimming lessons um for the kids and you know the concerns about mental health you know the walking around Berlin ponds and I just I'm concerned for kids what if this ends you know I don't know that it's going to end and of course safety is first always but I just don't want to see money taken from the children who've been cooped up for all these months I have a nine-year-old and she is going she's she's going crazy like you know so I just want to you know have others keep in minds that you know low-income families don't always have the the means to go and do things with their children and I and I just think that it's important and it's also a great preventative measure to have children learn how to swim because that is one of the main things that we do in Vermont with our children and because there's not too much else to do without having to travel so I just wanted to put my voice out there about that um you know and I just feel like if the money is there then it's there and if it doesn't get used it doesn't get used and there's no harm that's just my opinion um so I just wanted to talk about that and um and that's that's it for me okay um yes please under personnel and just how do we do this thing well I'm going to see how we're going to do it we're going to stop recording I'm going to ask our guests who aren't in on this they could sign off and and we will continue move down our executive session for a personal issue I second the motion all those in favor all right all right all right motion carries Dana do you do this action not Dave I'm sorry I'm sorry I don't tonight no okay all right thank you all right thank you thank you have a good one