Siwr y dyma'r gweithio am y gwasanaeth a'r gweithio'r cydweithreidiau sy'n gwneud am y dyma sydd y Gymdeithasol. Mae wedi yn fawr i'n gyfawr am y ddyliadau gyda'r ymddiol gyda'i cyfeithi ynborfod a'r ydylion ei gafodd gyda fy wygledennog i'r Gweithreidiau Cyfrifol. Efallai rwy'n cyfrifolwyr cynnig Cymru, ac ydych i gwirio ar yr cyfanyddig. Yn arweithio i'r cynnig ar y cyfrifol rydych, cyffred i'r gweithreidiau ar y dystiadau, Ydych chi'n wneud, dwi'n rhoi'r gweithio hwnnw oedd y cyfrifiad honi'r cyfrifiad. Lleidwch i'r bobl yn newid i'r cyfrifiadod o'r bynnur, felly cyfrifiadol yn y bydd darllen y yr Lyfr Rheiddon yn bwysig o'r gwaith, ti'n ddyn nhw'n gweithio'r cyfrifiad hyn.  Felly ei ddigwun i chi'n gwahoddiol o'r acoliaeth o'r gwyll样au, ac oedd yn ni gwylo arnaeth yr ysgoliaeth cyd ag yw'n gwyaf. Felly achos iddo mor hwn yn ysgoliaeth i chi'n gwahoddiol a'i gyd yn ysgoliaeth a'r gwyllfa'r ysgoliaeth i chi'n gwahoddiol. A rydych chi'n ysgoliaeth i chi'n gwahoddiol, ddim yn gweithio sydd y cwestiynau yn ei hunain. Cymru o'r adreswm os ydy intefyni nhw, felly rwyf am gyfrifi'r cwestiynau'n ymgyrch, sfoils am hyn a gwybod, i gwybod nes yw myfodol mawr o bobl yn cyflwyno'n dda. Felly, nid i'n gweithio'n gweithio pan hynny ymnegirfer ond yma, mae'n gofyn ar gyffrem. Dydd yr oedd yn y cwestiynau a'r gwerthu mor cyfeyl o mewn rai'r cyfrifenedig. Ym yn unig iawn ymateb yn llawson, g趙r yn maen ei Spaßidol i'ch meddwl yr wych yn i gwaith. Llywbeth, mae'n gwaith'na'n clwr i'n mynd i'w ddefnyddio'r cwmysgott ac mae'n gwybod atot i'w dweud o gyfryd y pethol i'w gwaith, ac mae'n gweithio i'w ddefnyddio'r cyflogau, mae'n gwaith yn cyflogu sydd yn gwybl, ond mae'n gyflogu'n mynd yn cwymu. sut mae'r marwain yn oed i'r gwahio gydag Lord Judith Rippers i'n dwy cydweithio. Mae'r parwain yn oed i'r gwahio gydag Lord Judith Rippers ac mae'r marwain y Cymru ac mae ryeisdo i'r plasteron yn oed i fod yn cymryd â'r wrthedd. Fy麗r Judith, rwyf wedi ceisio'n cydweithio a mi ddau'r command yn unrhyw bryd i ddiwethaethol i gyrraiddol. Rwyf wedi ceisio i'n cydweithio. Mae rai gydag Lord Judith Rippers i'r cydweithio. I'm Councillor Claire Daunton, please. Yes, I'm Councillor Claire Daunton, and I'm one of the members for the Fendit and Full-Born Ward. Thank you very much. Councillor Sally Ann Hart, please. Thank you, Chair. I'm Sally Ann Hart, and I'm one of the members for the Milk-Born Ward. Thank you. Councillor Martin Cahn. Hello, I'm Councillor Martin Cahn, and I represented East End in Peterloon Orchard Park. Thank you. I'm Councillor Peter Faines. I'm Councillor Peter Faines, Shelford Ward. Thank you. I'm Councillor Aidan Van Der Wire. I'm Aidan Van Der Wire. I'm from Barrington Ward. I'm Councillor Richard Williams. I'm Councillor Richard Williams. I represent the Whittlesford Ward. When Councillor Sarah Chung takes her seat, she can introduce herself immediately too. I'm Councillor Martin Cahn, and we welcome you. I welcome you to the Whittlesford System. Right. Well, we have with us Councillor Sarah Chung-Johnson. I can vouch for that. Can I also ask Councillor Graham Cohn to introduce himself, please? I can vouch for Graham Cohn's attendance, because I can see him, so I know he's here. Rhaid i ni nifer y gwrthol i'n meddwl, am y ddarparu yma, a'r dydw i'n meddwl i'n meddwl i'n meddwl i bobl am r�ie.sighs i'r meddwl i'n meddwl i bobl am hynny. awdurdodd Ie betrayal i'r meddl i'r meddwl i bobl am y cwrns i'r meddwl i'r meddwl i'r meddl i bobl am y cwrns i'n meddwl i bobl am y cyflau i'r meddl i fynd i'r meddwl i mewn ei gwirionedd i gyrfa gweld imeddagel Mae'r gweithio'r ddwyliadau Cymru, gan y gallwn gweithio yma, am Ysgrifiannol. Yn ymwrdd yn dweudio'r gweithio ar y Cysyllt Cymru, y byddwn i'n ddim yn gorfod yma yn Ysgrifiannol i Llywodraeth Llywodraeth. Yn ymwrdd, rydyn ni'n gweithio'r ddaeth, wrth gwrs? Rydyn ni'n gweithio'r ddwyliadau Cysyllt Cymru. Rydyn ni'n gweithio'r ddwyliadau Cysyllt Cymru. Rydyn ni'n gweithio'r ddwyliadau Cymru. I'm just coming off the beach. That's like your work so that's fun. Thank you very much. You're also joined by our chief executive remotely, Liz Watts. Liz, you'd like to introduce yourself please. Good evening Members. Thank you chair Liz Watts chief executive counsel. Thank you. Two members of Democratic Services supporting us this evening. Welcome to you both. I'm pleased to say that I can confirm—Oh, Sarah, I'm sorry, would you like to very briefly introduce yourself please? Hi, I'm Sarah Chung-Johnson, I'm a councillor for North Stansham Ward. Thank you very much. I can confirm that our meeting this evening is quarat. But could I ask that if at any time any member leaves the building, would they please make that fact known so that it can be recorded in the minutes? Item two, on our agenda, is Apologies for Absence. Can I ask Ian Senior, are there any Apologies for Absence this evening, Ian, please? No Apologies, Chair, but I should add that Councillor Graham—sorry, Councillor Jeff Harvey is also in the meeting, I think, remotely. My apologies. Councillor Jeff Harvey, would you like to just confirm your attendance please? Councillor Jeff Harvey, would you just introduce yourself please? I think you'll mute, Jeff. Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt, I'm not from here. Thank you. No, fine, let's move on. Item three on the agenda is Declarations of Interest. May I ask, do any members have interest to declare in relation to any item of business on this agenda? No, just a reminder that if an interest subsequently becomes apparent later in the meeting, please would you raise it at that point. Item four on the agenda is the minutes of the meeting held on 22 June 2021. Can I just go through it page by page for accuracy, please? Page one, Councillor Ripper. On page one of the minutes, it says that Councillor Sifant was in attendance by invitation, whereas he's actually a committee member. I know he was in attendance online, but I think that needs them altering. Yes, indeed. I'm sure we can arrange for that to be corrected before the final minutes. At page two, Councillor Ripper, have you been reading well? In paragraph, the second whole paragraph on page two is down. Health and licensing team, licensing should really be with an S because it's like a verbal sense of the word. Thank you. At page three and at page four. On page four paragraph down, or third whole paragraph down, just the semi-colon between Dr Richard Williams' name, which needs moving. I do, yes, I'm the first line of that paragraph. Thank you very much. Subject to those of members, those amendments, is it your wish that I should sign them as a true record? Agreed. Thank you very much indeed. So now we move on to five, which is public questions in senior. Can you tell me, do we have any public questions, please? Not today, not today, Chair. Thank you very much. And so we move on to item six, which is the draft reset and recovery plan. And I would like to invite the council leader to address this report, if you would please. Leader. Thank you. Thank you very much indeed, Chair. I'm very pleased to be joined by Ann Ainsworth, chief operator officer who has really put in the lion's share of the work on this reset and recovery plan. So I'm very pleased to bring it to scrutiny. I'm glad you asked the early sight of this. As members will be aware, we're at a critical junction now, the 19th of this month, you know, signal that we were moving into the recovery phase for the last 18 plus months. It's really critical that we consider how we focus off the sources of coming up to who's house. Could we ask everybody to mute? Leader, I'm sorry to interrupt you one moment. Can I just ask that everyone else is muted? We lost your sound for just a few seconds there. Would you mind going back to the start of that last sentence, please? Thank you. Yes, yes, of course. Yes, sorry. The background always wasn't coming from me. Okay, so obviously the 19th of this month was a very critical date. The government has now formally moved us into the reset and recovery phase of the pandemic, which has plagued us for so very many months. There are concerns there because obviously numbers of people suffering from COVID are going up. But, you know, we have to start focusing on the future, both on what we're going to do in the coming months, but most likely in the coming years actually because recovery isn't something that's going to happen in a short period of time. So, you know, our focus has to be helping our residents and our communities and our businesses to recover. And this plan covers actions, both those which we are directly responsible for, but also actions that can only come about through partnership working. And one of the few positives that's come out of the pandemic has been greatly improved partnership working between us, the county council, health, police, fire, public health.  And it's an incredible change in the way we are, you know, everybody now acknowledges that we are all in this together and we all absolutely have to work together. So it's critical that we capture all the positives in this partnership working and I think everybody realises that. So it's very much Cabinet's wish and Cabinet have had one opportunity to talk about this very early draft of this strategy and it was Cabinet's wish that it was very much focused around people. And so efforts have been made to reflect what we have been hearing from our communities and from our businesses and from those partners who I've just referenced. Now, obviously this plan sits alongside the council's business plan and our medium term financial plan. And it's intended to focus on those actions that are specific to the impact of the pandemic and not on the business as usual or the actions which are already reflected in other plans. So this is new work, work that we most likely wouldn't be doing if we hadn't been experiencing a pandemic for the last 18 months. And it's also really important to me in particular that the plan focuses on actions that are deliverable. We don't just want motherhood and apple pie, we've got to actually be delivering things that make a difference to the lives of our residents, our communities and our businesses. So you can see that the action plan is very much a work in progress and one of the reasons we're very pleased that you've asked for early sight of this is that we welcome prescrutiny here and we welcome your opportunity to shape this, help us decide whether there's any gaps, whether there's anything that shouldn't be there, but also how we should be prioritising things within this action plan. So this is just a draft and I think it's probably clear to you that this is very much something that's still in development and we do expect it to change over the coming weeks. So we do not want to bring a final document to scrutiny because we do prescrutiny in this council and what would be the point in bringing you something that was already cast in stone. So, you know, I hope this reflects our commitment to prescrutiny. This has got to be the council's reset and recovery plans, not just the Liberal Democrats, this has got to be the councils, it's got to be something that works for all of our communities, all of our businesses and all of our residents. And we've all gone through this pandemic together. And I think as a council cross party, we've worked incredibly well together and I think we have some some fabulous examples of everybody, everybody pulling their weight to the end degree. So, as I did mention, a previous draft did go to Cabinet to comment on and actually after that there was quite a sort of major major rewrite of it because we wanted it to be far more far more outcome focused and far more far more people focus. And actually what you're seeing now is quite a slim down version from what was first presented to us. So, with your permission, Chair, I would like just to hand over to Anne Amesworth so she can just go through a little more detail, please, of what got us to this point. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you, leader. Over to you. So, just a couple of additional points on this document for members. So, speak up. Is that better? Is that better? Thank you. So, in terms of putting this document together, there's been quite a lot of thinking that's gone into this as you would expect to see. Alongside other organisations across the county and nationally, lots of people are putting together some form of a recovery plan following the pandemic. And I'm sure you will have already seen some examples from across the country and perhaps from local parties. I'm having difficulty hearing, Anne. Still, if you could bring your mic closer, that might be helpful. Thank you. That's better. Yes, thank you. Thank you. So, as I was saying, there's lots of examples of recovery plans in development across the country and also locally as well. So, when we've been putting this plan together, this early draft as the leader has mentioned, we've been talking with our neighbouring councils. With our partners to find out what they're doing as well to make sure that we're not acting in splendid isolation in the development of this plan. And I think that the two aspects that you can see within this document are actions that we would be directly responsible for as a council. But as the leader has said, also actions that involve partnership. And that is being reflected, I think, in the ongoing work of others as well. This document has involved input from officers from across the council. We took it to our management team. At that point in time, as you can imagine with a document like this that has had so much, the pandemic has impacted our society in so many different ways. We had a lot of actions and ideas and proposals that officers were putting forward. So, we have thinned this document down considerably. And we did ask officers what they thought the priorities should be and where they wanted to focus. One of the steers that we got when we took these two cabinet members was to focus on actions that weren't business as usual, as the leader has mentioned, and things that were over and above what we were already doing. There are a couple of actions in there that you may recognise from other documents. And that is areas where we've talked, as colleagues, as officers, to say, well, if this is something that we think we should still have in a recovery plan, is it something that we would add additional value to, that we could stretch, that we could take further? So, not a duplication of what's already existing, but I suppose an evolution in that sense of the actions. But we have tried to focus on things that are different. This does sit alongside the business plan and the financial plan. We have sought to avoid energy application and really focus on actions, which are relevant to the acute issues that we now have come to the fore as part of the pandemic. If there are any gaps, though, we're very much welcome comments from members on that. Obviously, in thinning documents down, there are things that you can lose as part of that process. And if members feel that there are things that we should add back in, we would welcome any comments on that. One of the things with partners, and I mentioned the conversations that we've been having, one of the things that's been coming out from partners is that nobody wants to lose the developing relationships and the trust and the activities that we've been able to engage in through the pandemic. And everyone agrees that we want to keep that level of partnership working and communication and relationships really high as we move forward. So we've attempted to reflect that within this draft. And then I think just the one last thing I would say is I recognise at the moment in the action plan that some of the actions are less clear than others. And I would expect members to have noticed that as well. Some of that is around this developing aspect about partnerships. So we may not be in a position yet to say exactly what we would do, but we wanted to put markers in the ground where we felt that there are important activities and that adjust some of the acute needs that we've seen coming through the pandemic. And so we can continue to explore them when we're looking at further iterations of this document. Thank you chair. Thank you very much Ann. So I'll now open the meeting up to members and I'm going to start with Councillor Claire Daunt. There we are. Thank you, chair. Yes, so thank you very much for the document. I'm really glad that we have such early sight of it. I've just got two linked questions, both of them really to do with resources. So it's good to see the partnership working continuing so that will that be a genuine sharing of resources across the partnerships, the input of financial and human resources. And secondly, linked to that during the pandemic, of course, we had enormous support from a huge number of volunteers across the district in order to be unpaid volunteers. And they did an awful lot of work to help us deal with the pandemic. So are we going to continue that work either through the volunteers or in another form? Thank you Claire. Are you taking that over as a leader? Chair, if I may have a first stab and then ask Ann to support me. So we, on the sharing of resources with our partnerships, I think that's very much a work in progress and I think the county council are leading on putting a model together for how that would work. But I'll ask Ann to talk about some detail on that. In regards to the volunteer support, I think like many of you have been a volunteer in my community for decades now. And what COVID has shown us is that there is an opportunity here to capture this increased volunteer effort in our communities, which will not just serve us well during this recovery phase, but will serve our communities well forever more, particularly in making our communities more resilient. So when something else happens, or something else will happen, be it flood feast or famine or whatever, the communities will be in a better state to deal with it. So we had to build up capacity in a very short period of time and South Cambridgeshire was extraordinary because I think every single village had a volunteer force in place within three weeks of us asking people to mobilise, but they're getting tired now and we know from things that US members are telling us and from what we're getting back from the volunteer service that these numbers are beginning to drop off. So what I would really value from scrutiny is suggestions about what we can do to help keep those volunteer workforces in place and perhaps get them to move from this kind of emergency phase they've been in now into recovery phase and then into something else for the future. And the problem with communities, which again most of you, because I'm sure you're all volunteers, know is that the same people pop up on the same committee. So I did toy library, play group, tennis club, same people going through everything, but we've got new people now volunteering and I think those people have found it hugely rewarding as well as a hugely exhausting experience. So if you have suggestions about what we can do to help those volunteers stay active in their communities that would be much appreciated. If I could just bring in Anne to just talk a little bit more about the resource sharing, the financial human resource moving forward into more partnership working, that would be great. Thank you, Leda. And did you wish to add? Thank you. So what I would say on the partnership side is it's very, very early days but the conversations that we're having at the moment, everybody that I speak to is committed to keeping that really strong way of working moving forward. I think one of the challenges that we will have, ironically in a way, is that the pandemic has given everybody what you would describe as a burning platform. So everyone has focused upon essentially a single priority. And the conversations that we're having now is how do we keep that energy and that momentum and that high level of trust and engagement communication across the partners in what is the complex partnership landscape? How do we keep that moving when we will begin to return almost to a business as usual type of state where we may have different priorities as organisations? So what we've been talking about again very, very early stages is what might those shared priorities be? Where are those areas that we would want to work together? And so far those conversations have taken the shape of, well, let's just explore everything in anything and then see what might be the best way of working together on that. So I'm not hearing at the moment that anything is off the table but we're at very early stages. Thank you very much. If the members in the chamber would permit me, we have a couple of questions from our members on teams. So I'd like to take the remote questions first of all. And I'll start with, if I may, Councillor Steve Hunt, please. Oh, thank you, Chad. Yeah, thank you for the report. It's obviously a very important thing for us to be thinking about. It's great to see it early. Just a few comments or questions. I didn't really see any link in here to the local plan and I wondered if it should reference it in some way to somehow talk about what things can be baked into the local plan that might help us both in the immediate future in the long-term future in terms of having a community that is resilient to any future outbreaks of this type. And sort of similarly perhaps, parts of this which are clearly tactical things to do now to recover and other bits which would be further reaching policy that we want to set in place to status and good stead of the future and it's sort of quite nice to see that more explicit acknowledge in the document somehow or perhaps there is a different document which should be covering that more strategic longer-reaching part. Just one sort of specific question is on page 40 or rather our page, what is it, 22, under rebuild or thriving economy we have identified businesses who would benefit from significant start-up, scale-up, financial backing advice. But I couldn't see what, you know, we identify them but then what? Is there a plan to actually fund those and what form does that take and where is the money coming from? Thank you. Thank you very much indeed. So chair, if I may. Your point, Councillor Hunt, about the link to the local plan is a really interesting one and I'd like us to take that away because it certainly relates to things like community facilities and making sure that perhaps through the local plan there's more emphasis into the provision of those sorts of community facilities which really come into their own in building in this resilience. So thank you very much for that. That's really helpful. And again, you asked for sort of greater clarity over the sort of short-term tactical actions and sort of longer-term policy decisions. Again, I think we need to take that away but Anne might like to comment on that. And in relation to businesses, so I mean we were very fortunate that we were, by the time the pandemic hit us I think we had already recruited most of our business support team. So that was quite lucky actually because we had experts who really understood businesses and business support. And so we now have a team of four people but I think at the height of giving out all the grants I think they were joined by about 20 more officers because there was just so much work to do. So obviously identifying what ongoing support businesses need is the first stage and then once we've identified what support they need then we need to be talking about what we do ourselves. So we've run umpteen webinars. Businesses have a single point of contact within the council. Cope is amounts of advice but also we're not the only player here. So as you know we work closely with the Chamber of Commerce and the Federation of Small Business. So what should we be passing on to them, signposting them, what can we be doing with them and then of course the other major player is the combined authority. And you know they are the people with the money in reality and their business board has its own recovery plan. I can't off the top of my head remember what stage it's at at the moment. So I think we need to focus initially on what it is the South Cambridge of businesses need what state they're in, what assets are they're facing and then we need the second piece of the work is to be talking to our partners to see what they are going to do with us what they are going to do independently and then my hope would be if there's anything left over we then find a way of picking that up ourselves. May I bring in Anne please? Yes of course thank you. Thank you. Yes just to say on that issue of tactical actions versus policy strategy you can draw that out more so thank you for that comment. And just on the final point about the action related to businesses so this was an action that came from the business team and they wanted us to include this as something that they felt was important to recovery moving forward. We can obviously firm up this action and talk a bit more about the how but I know that this is something that they're looking to do as part of our COVID response. We want to make sure that businesses that have the potential to grow identify them early and support them with our partners. And the leader also mentions the recovery plan from the combined authority. That's the local economic recovery strategy. It was drafted. The first draft came out last autumn and then they did a review of that in March. And that's obviously a document that we have reviewed as part of putting together this draft of our recovery strategy so that the two work together and should work together moving forward. Thank you, Anne. My other remote question is from Councillor Cathcart. I can't see him at the moment. Nigel, are you with us? I think I'm there. Yes, you are. I can see you. Please go ahead. Okay, yes. It's really having its touch on here. That's his question of changes in working practices. I'm sorry, Nigel. We have lost you completely. So I'll come back to you shortly. In the meantime, could we go to Councillor Anna Bradman, please? Thank you for being so patient. Thank you, Chairman. I just wanted to point out that for the purposes of the minutes I noticed that Councillor Harvey managed to join us just prior to the presentation which the leader started on this paper. So he was part of the meeting. I know he can't vote because he's remote but he was here. And was that it? Okay, thank you very much. Councillor Fane. Councillor Peter Fane. Peter. Thank you, Chair. Yes, it is, as was said, very useful to have early sight of this, but I think we have to also recognise that we are, to some extent, playing catch-up here. We're meeting the day after in theory the pandemic turned into a pandemic. Actually, it's probably become both now. And therefore, plans for reset and recovery need to be, frankly, well underway. Now, I recognise we're not hanging around waiting for this document or anything and indeed those reference to the local economic recovery strategy. To some extent it seems to me perhaps we should be focusing on the LERS on our part in that particularly since, as the leader said, they have the money. Turning to page 21 forgive me, I know this will be apparent to everyone, but there are various planks. The timeline who is responsible how we will know when this has been achieved those are very important questions and perhaps some indication of some answers might have been helpful there. In the timeline are we talking about May 2022 which is perhaps a date some of us are already focused on. Or are we talking about a more realistic period for officers and for the councillors as a whole? Who is responsible clearly we will not assume it is merely all falls back on the chief operating officer or indeed officers as a whole because clearly it's something where councillors have a role too and as I mentioned our part in the LERS. I think if we're going to know when this has been achieved it's very important to quantify now what the current status is otherwise how do we measure whether that's improved. So for instance we talk on page 17 many people have lost their jobs or at risk of unemployment I'm afraid we need to quantify that. We need to quantify the situation on housing supply and accessibility on page 18. We need to say how we will work with education colleagues at county council. A number of questions which I'm sure are no surprise to the officers who have worked so hard on this but I think it's difficult to make useful comment without that. So I do think it is going to be quite urgent for Cabinet to move this forward and fill in a few of the gaps in this document and meanwhile in the spirit partnership working to focus on our role within the LERS. Thank you Peter. Leader. Thank you very much. The local industrial strategy is business as usual. This isn't business as usual. This is exceptional stuff that we need to do as a result of the pandemic. But you are quite right council of fame we mustn't lose sight of the local industrial strategy and the effect of the pandemic isn't the only thing we're dealing with. We're sitting quite a lot of meetings from the east of England local government association where they are doing a lot of work on what the actual effects of Brexit is as well. So we know we've got that to manage also. In relation, so I agree with you completely that this is really, really urgent but we're in this kind of interim phase when we are still dealing with a national international health emergency with our figures going up all the time so that still has to be managed because we don't yet know what we're going to be facing another lockdown or goodness knows what everything's going the wrong way and what I saw yesterday was deeply, deeply concerning. So it's very challenging to be dealing with an ongoing crisis situation at the same time as trying to manage the recovery from it. Now because of that we have some fame you're asking for evidence of how many people have lost their jobs how many businesses have gone under and so on we don't know what the final picture is going to be and we don't know how long it's going to take for the effect of the pandemic to finally play out the last person loses their job as a direct consequence of the pandemic. Is that going to be next month? Is it going to be this time next year? Is it going to be 18 months time? Now I know that there's a lot of work going on in compiling an evidence base to sit alongside this piece of work and that's been cross-referenced with actions that are detailed in other people's plans but this is a work in progress and it's not in a state to share currently but it is the intention that this evidence base when complete that will be a pretty dynamic document I would think will form an appendix to the final draft of this so I would appeal to members if there is any evidence which you're aware of which can contribute to this then please do give it to us and in relation to Councillor Thames' challenge about the timeline again that's something that I hope we would get from this meeting that you would be saying to us actually this under let's say rebuild a thriving economy identifying businesses who would benefit is the most important thing so some feedback from you on what we should be prioritising because we have limited human resources and we can't do everything at once but we rely on our experts, our officers on our partners but very very much so on our members to be giving us a clear steer on what those priorities should be and help us put that timeline together and if any fan wants to add anything to that one point leader referred to the local industrial strategy I perhaps wasn't speaking clearly I was referring to the local economic recovery strategy specifically which the chief operating officer had mentioned my apologies it's quite difficult to hear my apologies so yeah quite a great council of fame absolutely thank you leader over to you thank you chair yes thank you for the comments obviously you're absolutely right about the action plan it's very much a work in progress and so you would welcome any comments on that in terms of the timings of the documents what we and quite a lot of our neighbouring councils have been focused on obviously is the response to COVID-19 to date and we're still working on that now I think it's interesting as we're moving from a response to a recovery phase and there's lots of debate about whether recovery is the right word but what we're essentially trying to do is move out of a pandemic and into more of an endemic situation and reflect that within the various aspects of our societies and economy and communities etc that have been affected by it we can look at whether we can strengthen the link between those two within the document and be useful and help to tell the story a little bit better but I would like to provide some reassurance in the sense that from a timing perspective we're not able to kill two with others they're also developing their plans over the summer as well there's been some initial work from some of our neighbouring councils which if you do a google search they'll come up and you'll be able to see that but the plans themselves are actually still in development so that's quite helpful because we can work together and talk together about what those plans look like not least where they mention partnership working and of course we are referring to each other working in partnership in the future Thank you Can we go back now to councillor Nigel Cathcart Nigel, we lost you Last time I was talking to it which is very valid about changes in working practices and I suspect many of the some people go back to what they were doing before fundamental change in the way people behave in their working practices and we will have to find a way to look at it even for the local plan or something else as well as that there has been damage to people's confidence and their sense of well-being but I think anything we can do this is probably the long term that would actually facilitate that sort of improvement one of the things that springs to my is for instance the public footpaths of our villages some of which are neglected some of which are not but also, and to some extent this pandemic should give us impetus to do things that perhaps we haven't given before the other thing is of course the footpaths between villages in many cases there was an ambitious scheme some years ago to link up our villages by series of footpaths nothing better the sense of well-being and renewal would actually walk from one village to another in the past of course people just got into their cars and driven all over the place now there may be a change in practices which we can look at so what I'm saying is this is an example perhaps quite a fundamental shift in the way people do things and in the way people enjoy their recreation and their sort of out of office life because a number of people in my village said actually you should get into a train and spend two hours each day or else getting back exhausted I don't have far more time on my hands in fact to do things perhaps I would have liked to have done so we actually need to look at that is this as part of the recovery plan how do we actually engage with people to actually use their time constructively so I think there are some very fundamental issues that perhaps the recovery plan can only touch on but actually could actually provide a direction of travel you know especially working closely with other agencies and authorities thank you Nard, your leader so thank you very much Councillor Cathart so it's nice that somebody points out the positives of the pandemic and I must say one of the few things that's kept me reasonably sane has been being able to walk and I'm really really lucky that there's good footpaths where I live so I think that's an important point and obviously you know the county council I think is responsible for the majority of the footpaths but you know they are a partner of ours and it could mean that sort of maintaining footpaths and creating new footpaths as part of our local plan which is one of the very first questions this evening it kind of goes up our list of priorities because as you quite rightly say being able to get out into the countryside and walk is very very beneficial to people's well-being and to their physical health their mental health and also to the environment so I think you make a very good point there and in relation to changing working practices obviously Liz Watts as the head of paid service here is very engaged with our own officers and I know isn't in a hurry to bring people back into the office until we are absolutely sure that everyone's safe and even then it's going to look different the way it did look so I know the combined authority are doing a lot of work trying to identify what the new work practice might look like because apart from anything it will impact on a lot of the combined authority schemes so do you need to be building new roads do you need to be how many buses do you need to be putting on to cater for the new way of working these things are unknowns but which we have to be working with partners in order to be part of the decision making and a lot of that will play into both our local plan but also into the non-statutory spatial framework which the Oxford Cambridge are going to be launching in the next few days Thank you very much leader Councillor Richard Williams Thank you chair and thank you leader for bringing this to the committee I welcome a lot of what was said in the leaders opening remarks about working on a cross party basis and this being a policy pole council I would certainly support that and obviously there are many things in this policy that I would support and I think are very good and I would pick up for example the reference to expanding the mobile warden scheme so there are lots of things in here I applaud the intention and I certainly applaud the effort but I do have some concerns and essentially they relate to the extent to which this policy sets itself some potentially very broad objectives or at least it makes some very broad statements and those statements are not really borne out necessarily in the action plan so my overall point would be that I think there could be some work done to sort of scale this down but particularly link the text to the action plan and I just wanted to flag up a few points where I don't really think those things tie up so on page 17 for example we say we want to stop businesses that are thriving pre-COVID from now failing and that we need to be quick and agile in our response now that's a huge ambition to stop businesses failing and as a district council we simply don't have the necessary tools to be able to really do that effectively but perhaps more importantly there is no reference to anything really that could be linked to that objective in the rebuild the thriving economy action plan so there's nothing really that follows that up similarly a little bit further down on page 17 we say that we want to support education providers to provide courses that enable young people to re-enter the job market as soon as possible that's potentially very expensive if we're going to start giving direct financial aid to education providers but again there's no reference to that at all in the rebuilding the thriving economy action plan so that's not referenced there at all on the other hand the rebuilding of the thriving economy does say we're going to develop a cultural strategy for the district now that may be a very valuable thing something that I think probably is a very valuable thing but there's no reference to that at all in the rebuilding the thriving economy text so it sort of comes from nowhere and it's not clear how that would relate and then just one final one I won't go through them all but there are others on page 18 we talk about ensuring the housing of different tenures and affordability are brought forward for development now we can't really control what's brought forward for development as a district we can only really deal with the planning applications that we get but again there's nothing really on that in the action plan under this section there is a reference in the strengthening relationships to 106s but there's actually nothing in the action plan about how we might ensure that a mix of housing is brought forward because we can't really do that so whilst I applaud the intention behind this and I do think there are some good things in there and I flagged at one of them that you think this needs to be refocused and perhaps thought through about what's achievable and how the text matches up with what's in the action plan thank you thank you later so thank you very much so those are all very valid points so you know as I said in my introduction this document is incomplete we have brought it to you really early and it's very helpful to hear of Councillor Williams about what you want what things you want to be more clearly identified and yet as positive deliverable actions so a lot of these things are things we're doing with partners until we've done the work with the partner it's difficult to say exactly what those actions are going to be because it's not just us who are making that decision so you talked about a little bit talking about business failure and we know we want to minimise the number of business failures and okay we can't save every business but as a district council we do know our businesses and this side of the pandemic we actually know our businesses a heck of a lot better than we ever did before we have enormous amount of data on our businesses and I think a lot of us have actually made direct contact with all our businesses so we have a lot of intelligence there and we have had access to millions and millions of pounds of government money which we have disseminated to those businesses and I think there's recently been some more money so I think we've been very very active in preventing business failures we have had discretionary money to hand out and we focus that discretionary money on businesses which had a future post pandemic but which weren't going to survive without any intervention so considerable worker being into that education again we sit on the skills board of the combined authority and the combined authority handles all the skills money so through that partnership we will be able to influence courses that are available for young people to get them into the workplace a post pandemic workplace again which we don't know what it's going to look like I know there's some members who feel very passionately about the council being more involved in cultural strategies and particularly through our local plan and again I think if we're talking about people's health and wellbeing and community resilience we now know how important that is I've just put the theatre God I'm so excited I haven't been to the theatre for nearly two years it's been a huge home it's the icing on the cake we'll be left with bread and dripping we haven't even had the cake recently and on the housing I disagree with you Councillor Williams we can influence a mixer housing and I think we can ensure a mix of housing and certainly both through our own policies and our own local plan but also through our very, very significant involvement with the Oxford Cambridge Arc where their spatial framework, their spatial plan is going to have policies which are embedded in national planning policy so there are opportunities for us to be able to live up to the ambition of ensuring a mix of housing that reflects the needs of our community Councillor chair may I add things worth coming and add anything to that please Thank you Yes thank you for those comments I think in some cases we need to have a look at the drafting again so for example around things like supporting people to re-enter the job market one of the actions we've got is a very specific action about our own recruitment and the way that the council connectors an employer within that space but I can see that we can strengthen the links between the things that we mentioned in the narrative document and then the actions themselves as well so we will look at that Thanks and I do believe that Councillor Williams would like to come back Yes thank you just very quickly just on that last point leader I mean okay if you want to argue that you can influence the housing mix that's brought forward for development then I think my key point really is that we need to know how I think we need some specifics in the action plan on exactly what you're planning to do to live up to that promise rather than to state it in the text and then there not really be anything specific about that in the action plan I agree with you Councillor Williams and we will do that Thank you very much Councillor Martin Thank you it's very interesting I was going to come back about the point about the cultural strategy again which I'm one of the people that's also been interested in this but it also relates to the whole issue about green spaces and access the countryside access the countryside this council in the past when we constrained upon our rate rates and tried to cut back on spending has withdrawn basically from all action on virtual action on the cultural side and virtual action on on the recreational side it's been devolved to other organisations even past the only simple land we have built a country park out to another body to manage so we've drawn them up to now now if we're going to have a cultural strategy I'd like to know if this is going to include building more upper sections to deal with these fields both access to countryside and that while the highways as a highway authority for keeping footballs open promotion and encouraging use provision of green space access space is a district council function as well as a county council function and in fact we're the only district in Cambridgeshire which doesn't have a park park service of our own so it's something which we've opted out of won't go back upon the reasons but that's where we are now getting new services into a local authority is an awful job difficult job because it means expenditure expenditure and it also means looking at the structure of the authority because basically services that are supplied tend to have a structure supporting them within the authority and if you don't have a section dealing with culture within the authority you can say what you like very little will take place that's my experience of working in a local authority that's the way that power politics work in local authorities and the same with terms of recreation and access because of the side improvement so I want to know within I think the pandemic has provided a very good justification for getting back to those fields it's highlighted how important they are that we should be taking action I would like to see something in this about how we're going to actually do that in more detail thinking about what the implications are if this is going to be a higher priority but how do you see that going forward Linda Thank you very much indeed councillor Card well you know it's not impossible to embed new services you know three and a half years ago there was no business support service in this council so you know with will and careful financing it's quite possible to do that so obviously saying that we will have a cultural strategy is not something that's going to be knocked off by next Wednesday this is a big piece of work and I think what we need to do is kind of break it down into you know what could we be doing in the short term to start providing opportunities for our residents or perhaps for community groups to start doing their bit to be engaging their residents more obviously you know lot of our community groups have been focused on COVID so the little charity that I've run for the last goodness knows how many years we used to run annual battle of the bands competitions now obviously that doesn't happen anymore but you know perhaps there are little things we can do by prioritising some of our grant programs to giving small amounts of money to community groups to start stimulating culture and the arts in their community so again some suggestions from you about what some low hanging fruit would be would be really helpful because what I don't want is for us to wait until we've developed a whole big cultural strategy which will take ages and might well not be a priority while people are still suffering from COVID and hospital beds are still full up but you know what are some early actions that we could do that might just start sowing some seeds with our communities to make stuff start happening sooner rather than later Thank you leader It's councillor Sarah Chung-Johnson Sarah Hi thank you so again I echo what other fellow members of the scrutiny committee have pointed out that this is a very ambitious plan for putting it together I just wanted to pick up on the under strength in our relationships and new ways of working where point two ensuring that section 106 and healthcare planning reflect the health and community needs of new and expanding communities and here I am speaking as the councillor of one of the biggest new and expanding communities that is expanding fast but with no real sight of its own GP on the horizon I was wondering how realistic it is other than us saying isn't it lovely to have how much power and influence we have to actually make that happen given that we face that issue now locally and we don't seem to be getting much traction on it Leader Thank you chair so what COVID has done has shone a bright light on the fact that people have to sorry for the message that you see on the TV screen behind me sorry about that that the people who have fared best are the young the fit and healthy the people without underlying underlying health conditions and so on so we have to do more to make our communities resilient to get people fit and healthy to make sure that they have access to the primary health care they need which you've referenced councillor John Johnson which I know is a big problem in your patch but for the first time since in the last three years since I've been doing this job we now have a close relationship with public health and with the NHS and we didn't have that before quite honestly here and those are probably amongst the most important newly strengthened relations that we build upon on top of which the combined authority is beginning to focus itself on health issues as well so I think there are opportunities there if our residents are not active don't have access to the best in health care aren't eating good fresh food when something else like this happens they're going to fare as badly or worse and they have this time so as a councillor we've been engaged with the whole obesity agenda goodness me ten years if not more than ten years but I think what this has done has made us realise that we need to be re-prioritising some of this stuff really so your feedback will help us do that and some of it we can try and do alone and I know all of our active active travel work and the work we do on sport and so on we do alone but there's got to be better opportunities to do things together and ramblings likely is worth to come in to ramble less than I am I'm not sure there's much I would aren't really chair I think in the conversations that we've had as officers obviously what we recognise is the importance of the process around section 106 and looking to make sure that all aspects of the council and partners are engaged with that process moving forward I'm sure there are some lessons we can learn and this also relates to the partnership working I mentioned earlier with partners such as the county council thank you very much councillor Aidan Van Derwire please thank you very much this recovery strategy I think is an excellent initiative really welcome and I think doing a strategy like this in an ambitious way without every detail nail down is entirely appropriate for the extreme situation that we are residents and our business partners have them I have a couple of questions relating to the partnership working which we have talked about a bit which I think is really good obviously a lot of the objectives in this and especially the more ambitious ones can only really be achieved with partners who are working to walk to the same ends obviously I've discussed the partnership working over the last 18 months has greatly improved and the way that this strategy seeks to learn from that meant in what's good I think great and I said early on about the need to sort of consciously ensure that as we move from the sort of emergency situation where everyone's sort of focusing on the same objective to a more business usual where other priorities of different organisations come in what sort of discussions have they been around how to manage that place at officer and political level because obviously the issue of competing priorities is much a political thing so the first question and second question you said that there are other organisations that are doing similar things I'm just wondering where some of those organisations where as far as you're aware and in particular in relation to some of these ambitious things that we're looking at are those other organisations going to be developing similar policies we already mentioned the culture strategy and the identifying businesses the other one that is very interesting ambitious but really good if we can do it and it does depend on partnerships as the digital inclusion skills programme so are they going to be included in sort of corresponding documents later thank you councillor van der Waier it was really difficult to hear you so I'm hoping I captured what you said so you're wanting to know about what other organisations are doing similar plans to ours and what political level conversations have they been happening to make sure that we're all in the same place have I captured that correctly yes boarder yes okay so the city council and the county council are developing drafts and I think they are sharing their thinking with us and other plans have looked at communities and the economy so obviously we have the combined authority with their plan which is the Annanesworth has reminded us was refreshed in March and I'm sure is going to be refreshed again particularly once we have that evidence base for new new ways of working in particular and the impact on some of the combined authority schemes obviously we work very closely with the city through our local plan to be imperative that we are aligned with them and obviously the county council has changed its leadership recently and conversations go on regularly between us so I think this is very much a draft and I think as soon as we've got feedback from the committee and we have made the amendments to this draft based on the feedback we've got from the scrutiny overview I think we probably need to establish a meeting with colleagues at both the county council and at the city whether that's at officer level to start with or whether it's at member level I'm not quite sure at the moment I will ask for advice on that to make sure that this is all complementary we're not trying to do different things but bear in mind that South Cambridger is rural and therefore our challenges are different to the challenges of the city but there are all sorts of economies to be delivered by doing things together both financially and as far as human resources is concerned and Main's worth may come in please because of course she's been involved in all these the kind of weekly if not daily conversations with the CCG which has stimulated a lot of this leader if you bear with us at the moment I think her boss actually wants to come in so can you invite Liz Watts to address the meeting well not to take any of the glory for man because she's done the lion's share in fact all of the work on this plan but I think since I currently chair the Cambridge and Peterborough public service board which is the board made up of all of the chief executives from across the system in Cambridge and Peterborough it's probably I can probably give some reflections on the partnership working stuff so obviously it's much easier anything that's kind of within our control is much easier to deliver and there are some parts of this plan that we can crack on with and deliver without needing to refer to other partners but I think what we have learned from COVID is well for start we spent a lot more time together because we you know at the beginning we were meeting every single day we now meet twice a week and I think we will realise that there are opportunities as Anne has already mentioned and the leader has mentioned where we could do better for our residents by working more closely together so that's our ambition and we will be sort of working really hard on that in the coming months I think it's fair to say that this stuff is not easy so it's hard enough changing things within an organisation changing things across organisations is really challenging but I think the good thing is that everybody is recognised from COVID that the prize is worth it that we need to work differently and work more closely with partners and probably compromise more give up some of the things that mean that we can move things along with partners where we might have wanted to do something one way but we realised that in order to work across the system we might need to do it slightly differently and I think we need to have some really honest conversations with partners both at officer and member level in order to make that stuff work so this isn't an easy goal or project but I think we all recognise the prize is worth it and certainly something that's very much on our radar Thank you very much Liz Alan did you wish to say anything at this point? I'll just add something to add that's okay, thank you Just to say as well I've actually got them in Funtime so Huntingtonshire their report on recovery which was a report for scrutiny that went earlier this month and also from the city council their outline recovery plan went to their scrutiny earlier this month as well that actually went to their strategy and resources scrutiny so when I was talking earlier about the timeline of the partnerships we're trying to move those forward together as closely as possible and the other thing at the moment is you can imagine all the plans are focused on things like the economy on communities, on vulnerable people when it gets down to the detail of it it will look slightly different as you can imagine because the acute need in different areas obviously would be slightly different and I think that's where those conversations are going to come in are there particular actions maybe just a small number that initially might focus on together because we feel we can have a greater impact by doing that Thank you very much Councillor Anna Brefyn Thank you Chairman and I will be brief because I'm mindful we've been talking about this for quite a long time That'll be a first I don't mean I'm often succinct so what I wanted to say is that looking at page 19 I'm particularly pleased that this council is concentrating on young people particularly affected by the impacts of multiple lockdowns their education and their mental health and in particular I note the report says we'll particularly focus on those who are children, who are looked after and children leaving care now you will appreciate that I am the chairman of the county corporate parenting subcommittee whose responsibility children in care are particularly so I'm delighted that the district council wants to work with the county council to support the children in our care and I'm very happy to link up if that is of any help but in particular you refer on page 24 to linking our services together and improving data sharing supporting initial investment in domestic abuse training and we're very mindful that that has been a particular concern during the pandemic and we had some excellent training on that just a few weeks ago I'm also keen that we're looking at this opportunity to expand the Wild Minds project which has been so helpful and I believe is being held at Milton Country Park initially but may expand from there I suspect but also this working with the county council to create a locally tailored package of support for young people those who are particularly vulnerable before the pandemic and who have been hit particularly by it so I'm very happy that this council is engaging in this cross-county working because I think this is so important it's happened through gold command with flooding and it's happened through the pandemic and I think it's the way ahead because I think our aims are going to be similar and I'm delighted to help in whatever way I can with that, thank you Thank you Hannah, leader So thank you to my councillor Brad and I welcome your very succinct comments there So it was a particular wish of Cabinet that this strategy had a focus on young people because you know I know lots of older people have died as a result of Covid but the people whose lives are going to be impacted for decades are the young people we can't just assume that because fewer of them have died that actually they're not victims of this as much as anybody else is so these are young people whose education has been disrupted whose job prospects may never be as good as they were whose mental health we know has taken a hideous bashing and there's been arming increase in referrals into the Children's Mental Health Service and big increase in eating disorders you know this has been really really bad for young people and it will continue if we do not act fast with our partners to be really bad for young people and you know it is incumbent on all of us to prioritise the young so that they can put this behind them and get on with their lives as they would have done had this awful thing not happened so again you've highlighted the hideous increase in domestic violence and it was one of the very very first meetings I went to the vulnerability of people living in abusive relationships was highlighted at the absolute outset so we knew this was going to happen and things were put in place we knew that children in homes where the level of care wasn't as good as one would hope who weren't getting regularly fed if they weren't in school actually the risks were greater they weren't getting their school meals they weren't being looked at by teachers on a daily basis and very very concerningly very early on the number of referrals of children into the social care system dropped dramatically and that's because they weren't coming into contact with those responsible adults who were on the lookout for the signs of abuse or mistreatment or neglect so that you know those we are only now I think really coming to terms with that and the numbers are going up again so it's absolutely imperative that we do everything we possibly can to save save the future of our young people and most of us in this meeting are parents of young people of various ages and so this matters desperately to us so I thank councillor Bradman for the offer of her support in this partnership working and it is a priority for me personally and I imagine for all of you as well thank you thanks very much chairman I'll try and be brief as well so I'd echo a lot of what has already been said really I think the leader and the chief executive talked about this being not an easy report to write and then deliver and I agree with that and I think the reason for that is because it covers so many different areas across the council from housing and planning and green issues and loneliness and so on and so on and then made more difficult by having to work across councils and with other organisations so I understand that that is difficult I also agree with councillor Cheung Johnson that it's very important that this report has clout and part of giving it clout I think is making sure that we hone down those action points and people have clear strategy and policy that they can apply in their local communities so they can find those policies deliverable on the ground that's not a criticism that's just how I'm reading the document because my own thing reading this document and that the leader did refer to this already about how the council is working with the NHS and health providers all I'd add to that is that it's very important that also that is done on a local level so GP services district nurses local charities that provide mental health support participation groups all of those things I think could feature more in the action plan than they do currently obviously is the first sort of draft of that but I think you know one of the most important things that sort of really engage people to start participating in their community was seeing some of the sickest and most vulnerable people you know going without, you know, prescriptions or struggling to access services and wanting to help out in that way so linking up those local services I think is important and how that is done within this report needs to be clear to give it cloud Thank you Thank you Councillor Coe so your comments are really helpful actually particularly as you come from a health service background Thank you for acknowledging that this isn't easy you know it's not easy because actually COVID has affected every single aspect of our lives so it's not like we're dealing with a flood which generally speaking it has a limited impact this has affected every single place in our communities just about every business every organisation so that's why it's really it's really not easy and I thank you for acknowledging that You're quite right that we need to hone down the actions and I'm very pleased that you said you want to see evidence of which actions can actually be applied at a local level into deliverables on the ground so thank you for that and we will take that away and we will endeavour to probably with some more consultation endeavour to get greater clarity on that but if there's anything specific you want to feed back to us now or outside of this meeting about what you think some of those deliverables could be what really matters particularly to our own community then that would be really helpful and on you know working locally with the health service I think that's one of the hardest nuts to crack it's been really tough you know my own GP's practice has taken a lot of criticism you know I know it has been really tough my sister works in a GP's surgery not in South Cambridge you know she has been made ill by the fact that the phone rings non-stop from 8 o'clock in the morning and people are stressed and they're angry and at times they're abusive and you know it really takes its toll on the people answering the phones never mind the medics who are dealing with the stuff behind so it's been very very hard on our primary primary healthcare people have been frustrated because they haven't really understood what's going on and people feel unsettled because they don't think they've got the same access to primary healthcare that they had before and we've seen some emerging tragedies with people not accessing healthcare when they should have done so you know rises in in cancers that not being treated early enough and heart attacks and strokes not being treated hard enough now I think the health service has done a formidable job in addressing these problems as soon as it became apparent that there was a problem there but I completely agree with you we need as the local authority to you know investigate ways in which we can be working better in partnership with primary healthcare within our within our villages as well as with you know the higher level providers you know we need to be we need our doctors and our district nurses and our midwives to be talking with us and again any suggestions you have of how we can achieve that will be much appreciated does that answer your thought to add anything to that because I'm sure this is high on her list of priorities if not Liz as well I think I see shaking heads at this time but we can always come back to that later. Councillor Sally-Ann Hart Thank you chair and I will definitely be brief I just note that this is described as a developing draft and just say thank you for it because I think had we not seen this today we may well have been sitting here wondering where south Cambridgeshire council's draft we certainly recovery plan so thank you for that. At the risk of looking foolish and I'd like to thank Councillor Flane for helping me I now know that on page 26 LERS is local economy recovery strategy I quite like playing abbreviation bingo I'm still stuck on MTFP which is on the same page page 26 and just on page 23 GBA so I'm just wondering if in future drafts some of those abbreviations can be spelled out. Yes I do remember when I was a fairly new councillor I felt you know there would be debt by acronym and actually Ian senior is a stickler you know to making sure that acronyms are spelled out so GBA gross value added and the medium term financial plan so thank you for providing us the need to explain the acronyms. I think that's a very useful reminder thank you very much indeed. Martin you want to come back but must be brief please. It's brief it's really just a highlight something which I think you need to keep in light because it may develop it may not. I'm thinking about university students who have been living an extremely different life for the last two years my two children are both now finishing their second year university of which three quarters has been at a distance without other contact so university students have lost one of the big elements of university life which is all the social life the contact the other events that take place because that is really difficult to do at a distance you don't make the contacts you don't meet people in lectures. Now the question is now whether because people are talking about doing much more of future teaching online and at distance if we're going to be doing much more distance learning that's going to be a big effect on students and their life. We need to think carefully about whether we need to replace that at home so even though we don't have a university here we do have a high proportion of families which have students university it may be something we need to think about. How do we replace these other aspects of student life which they will be missing if they're doing everything online. Just a thought. Thank you. Councillor Judith Rippert. Thank you chair. Thank you so for this draft coming early we discussed this and we wanted to see it as an early draft so everyone could put so much input into it. One thing that I really thought about whilst I've been listening to what everyone's been saying and I don't know if the leader agrees with me is that mental health seems to be the connecting factor between all these threads and could that be used as a kind of theme to tie all of this together as the main focus for how we kind of sharpen this into more of a decided plan. Leader. So that's an interesting thought. So I don't think I can make an on the hoof comment on that. I think it's something we need to take away and look at and I think I need to read the document again with that in the back of my mind about whether that's the common thread. I mean my thought was the kind of resilience future resilience was the golden thread but of course mental health is part of that as well so if we may take that away and think about that if what you're saying Councillor Riffith is that mental health needs to feature needs to be a high priority here and it needs to feature more widely then again we can consider that as well. Thank you for your chair. I wasn't really expecting you to say yes or no on those. It just had occurred to me probably more so over the past hour as people were commenting and it might be a strong way of making things work and across those partnerships and across different organisations. Thank you Judith. I think if I could try and summarise just some of the points that have been made I think this has been an excellent discussion and I hope members that will trigger other thoughts in your minds which I hope you will feed back to Ann Amesworth at a later point it is important that we try and capture all your thoughts and I think for me perhaps one of the key objectives is to identify the short term gains that we can get and separate them from the long term ones. Amongst our partners there are organisations that carry and hold a huge amount of data and I am thinking for my own part the combined authority business support group has a lot of information on businesses and individual job losses so there must be an awful lot of data that we could gain from partners which would perhaps help to fulfil Peter's objective of having identified measurement points so that we can quantify things. For me one of the key areas is that we retain the fabulous income and outstanding support that we have from our volunteers. I can tell you that in Hardwick we are doing a couple of things in the next few weeks and we vicar many months ago and asked that we should have a service of thanksgiving for all the volunteers that have helped. We still haven't been able to do it. I had hoped that we would have done it months ago but of course we couldn't and I'm not sure in any event that our little church in Hardwick is big enough to bring everyone together but one way or another we will do it and we're also having a village party in September when all the village will come together and we'll give everyone the thanks that we can and I'm sure that's something that other parishes might want to consider. I think the recreation and cultural aspects are key and linking whatever we do with the text of the action plan and our local plan it would be very, very helpful. There are so many issues here please do take time when you go home to put those e-miles together put all those thoughts together and let's give this as much help and support as we can. Llyda, you wish to come back. Thank you very much indeed chair for your very helpful comments. I would like to thank all the members of the Strictly and Overview Committee for their considerable attention they've given to this piece of work and just to say how valuable all their input has been but I would just like also to thank Annanesworth who has worked incredibly hard on this at a time when there are many, many demands on her time and I suspect she hasn't been having very many hours of sleep so she's had to do quite a major rewrite at the behest of cabinet in a very short period of time for this to come to you so my considerable thanks to her and to all the colleagues who have supported her. Thank you Llyda and I think ladies and gentlemen that takes us on to item 7 on the agenda which is the street trading controls adoption of schedule 4 of the local government miscellaneous provisions act 1982 and designation of consent streets has set out on pages 27 to 32 of your pack and here to present it is Councillor Brian Milne's Brian, welcome Hello, Councillor Chamberlain how are you? Well at the moment I'm keeping dry despite the weather outside where it is absolutely pouring down with rain I drove through about 3 or 4 inches on the A11 505 junction very carefully earlier on my way home so take care out there so I'd like to introduce this policy to the committee and it's a confluence of two different things which are the movement of the district from some 106 parishes I think maybe a few more to one that includes a substantial population of new towns and settlements such as Camborn and North Stowe and Layshill Wars Beach and Born and the second thing is the rise of the food truck phenomenon which we've seen during the pandemic when the restaurants and pubs with food were forced to stop their in-house trade and in fact I should also introduce a third different component coming to this which is our appointment of Rachel Jackson who is with us this evening as principal licensing officer who is bringing vast amounts of experience in this to the council and who has already been working on not only this policy revision but also gambling and taxi licensing as well so in keeping in very familiar ways with the earlier item that you've just been discussing we're bringing this as an early stage to you which is the first part of changing the way that we structure the street licensing policy currently it's not equitable you can get a bizarre situation when if a boundary between two parishes crossed a lay-by you could legally park in one half of a no fee on the other half you'd be obliged to pay an £800 fee to park there and work that hatch or bitch and clearly that's not equitable it's unreasonable we've also got anomalous situations for example where if a food truck wanted to work different patches or pitches every evening of the week then he'd be or they would be obliged to pay a separate fee for each pitch that they had permission for and currently there's a whole mishmash of different or no licensing conditions taking place across the district and that clearly is not right so this document before you tonight sets out the process by which we want to change this and it introduces the process of consultation coming after this agreement in principle which we're looking for to adopt this act across the whole of the district consistently irrespective of the parish which is the way it was working before so there were a limited number of street consents which we've got a list of in the appendix of the document so unless Rachel wants to add anything to my summary there even in case I've missed anything overseas for a discussion thank you Brian Rachel did you wish to add anything to Brian's comments? No thank you jam I think councillor Milford has covered it very very well I don't know if there's any kind of information obviously members will ask any questions they wish I'm sure between myself and councillor Milford so we'll be able to answer them this evening for you thank you very much I'll now open it to a discussion with councillors thank you chairman and thank you councillor Milford for presenting the report and thank you to Rachel Jackson for producing the report and I should perhaps I don't know declare an interest because I'm chair of the licensing committee so this is something that we've long wanted to come forward so I'm very pleased that Rachel has grappled with this problem because we've known for some time I've been chair of the licensing committee for the previous four years and we've known that there is this anomalous situation that arises and perhaps for those who are less familiar with it the situation is as councillor Milford has explained that in some villages there are no controls people can set up where they wish and in others as per the list in appendix A on page 31 those street traders can must seek the permission of both this council and the parish council and that means that they come under the our ability to control both and indeed the parish council's ability to control for example things like the location of the pitch the hours and the terms and also of course all sorts of peripheral things like they must install a litter bin and they must make provisions to tidy up after them and also from the council's point of view that these people are licensed and are controlled in terms of their our safeguarding concerns for what might also be going on as side issues to the trading that they're legitimately doing so I'm really glad that we're going to try and bring this under the we would like to bring it under the control of the council because it gives us an opportunity to exert a degree of control and management over the street traders that's not to say I'm not happy with the street traders who have set up during the pandemic and I know in many villages north stone and indeed in my own ward of land beach I know the villagers have been delighted to have a food van different food vans coming there different nights of the week which has given them an enormous source of release and pleasure from having to cook their own supper so just a couple of things I would like to have some brief explanation what I mean is in the report that comes eventually to council or indeed to cabinet it would be useful if we could have some brief explanation of the scope of the current situation in not using my words but in a description as given by councillor Milne's of how it works now but I would also like to have some information about what the costs would be and what the impact will be on those traders who are currently unlicensed or perhaps working without this control so I think it would be very useful to have that as an introduction to the report and I'm just very glad that we're hoping to take this under our wing and I'm also very glad that there will be a consultation with the Police, Cambridgeshire County Council Highways because of course this relates to our A roads as well and the labourers on the A roads but we're also going to be conducting the consultation with the parish councils and I think that's absolutely right and appropriate so parish councils have an opportunity to have those say so thank you very much for bringing this report forward and I look forward to working its way through those consultation processes so thank you very much Thank you councillor Bradnham councillor Milne's would you like to come back just very briefly I think councillor Bradnham's questions and comments more than welcome and that's what we're hoping to see because we've got such a now a variety of circumstances throughout the district as I said in my introduction we've got very different circumstances from a very small village with its own parish whose parish councils may not for example meet every month because they're relatively small and we've got to come up with a policy that accommodates that and then one of our large new towns for example or our larger villages where there are plenty of opportunities for people to park up and serve food in this way at the moment it's slightly complicated we offered for example a six months fee amnesty I'm afraid Rachel has inherited something of a mishmash of circumstances to try and resolve so it's going to take some work and I think that cooperation with local members is going to be absolutely critical as is the consultation particularly with the parish and town councils some of whom for example in Northstone the volunteer group has arisen to manage this so they they manage the pictures they take a fee that they give to anything remaining any profit notional profit goes to charity there but we are not included and that's not the intention of the act to control this because what we want to do is make sure that all the operators are working for example to a healthy regime with the food hygiene standards that they need to do serve food thereby not put our residents at risk and at the moment that isn't being done consistently in some places there is no licensing there's no record of who is trading where and that needs addressing in terms of fees again we're going through this changing circumstances it may the demand for food trucks now that we've got less restrictions particularly in our pubs it may mean that the demand for food truck business is going to well but we need something that can cope with that for example in terms of charge per site charging £800 per site per day if you want to run that 5 or 7 days a week so that has to be taken into account as well and we would like to be able to obviously cover our costs here and that's part of the equation that we'll have to put together sorry that was slightly longer than I anticipated thank you councillor Milne I'm glad you recognise that could I call upon councillor Wilton please mine was just a very simple point actually and that was to say that I welcome this and I think really it's rather repeating what councillor Braden says in terms of getting a handle really on safety and security across the district safeguarding security food safety food security and really general well being both for the street traders and for our communities and I think this is an important staff for doing that thank you very much did you wish to come back briefly on that councillor Milne actually I'll mention one thing we're talking about this because there is a further complication for example that's introduced by the act which talks about public access so we've had several cases in the last year and more where people have said but I've got the owner's permission to operate on his land and therefore I don't need it from you as well but that's actually not true if there is public access and if you're serving food from food truck you obviously have to have public access by definition then the act applies and this itself is a contentious issue that we'll have to deal with with this policy that's an interesting point as I have to say I have not understood that so thank you for that I'm going to go online too remotely now to councillor Steve Hunt thank you Jack I was just wondering whether we have any estimates for how many food trucks or other outlets will be affected by this it just seemed to me that it would be a nice thing to have even if it's the best estimates we have do you have an information like that and is there any possibility that I've no idea what the charges and costs of this are and also the inventory of challenges it might make for some very small businesses it's a risk that we're going to put some thriving business, some new business that's come about as a result of the pandemic out of business because of this either because of the costs or because they don't have the skills to apply for hygiene standards or because the local parish council might not want them what do we stand with that thank you so there is a bit of a burden in terms of application although that's not the worst aspect I think there's from memory I think you'd need sort of 10 pages of forms and photographs of various other documentation certification from food hygiene I think is one of them and indeed another potential potential issue you have to provide a photo of your dispensing vehicle or truck or trailer and there is a question for example whether there should be any sanction available that says it doesn't look right or it's not appropriate for this area which is part of the reason we need to have a consultation with town and parish councils about their input to this, how much control or influence do they want over this process I don't think Rachel can confirm this I don't think we've ever done any audit of how many current operators there are we obviously know how many we've licensed but there are substantial numbers so actually going back to the parishes and terms would be a really useful way of getting information more information about how many of those operators are doing so at the moment thank you Rachel did you wish to come in on that thank you very much chair I was just going to say just to give you a bit of perspective it's a very valid question we have got 31 issued consents currently and we have the food park which represents this consortium of food trucks in the district and actually county-wide so we actually have 11 operators that are very keen to come on board with the licensing scheme and they currently operate within our district on top of that we have another 11 operators who are currently working across Camershire who may well come on board in due course subject to how effective the policy is but I think I just want to mention a very brief comment that is absolutely right so look at making sure it is regulated and safe with regard to food I think another key critical point here as well is making sure the vendor is actually fitting proper he was the old taxi terminology there to be a trader we want to ensure that we are providing a safer environment for people in our community to actually go to a trader who has been vetted as well they have to do a statutory declaration whereas the other scheme to have currently we have to give an idea of figures we call it say 11 certain should we say as good as certain as we can be 11 possible then we have about between 3 and 5 traders that have been currently licensed perhaps incorrectly by the authority or we know they are just on the boundary of where they should be licensed so we have identified a couple of those traders on top of that as part of my initial kind of consultation or discussions with the parishes we know there are currently maybe a small handful of operators who are currently operating under the local scheme should we say so we are probably looking about an additional 15 to 25 but as councillor Mills had mentioned depends on appetite perhaps a pun intended perhaps what appetite there is actually for the food registrations and of course street trading when the time comes thank you very much councillor Jeff Harvey are you with us Jeff? yes and good Jeff no I just if I may I wondered is there sort of consistency and coherence if you like especially for locations which border the city do they have similar sort of regulations to avoid some of the anomalous situations that occurred with parking in those areas I also wondered whether this is sort of net revenue generator for our council and if so does this is this kind of neutral in terms of what you might be as a sort of tax on street traders so I'm going to make a couple of brief points but then pass to Rachel because I haven't got any information directly about the way that this Cambridge city operates for example it has spoken to people who work across the border and they are really worried and it's not just the city it's elsewhere on the fringes of the district where they might want to operate elsewhere at the same time and therefore if they were doing it legitimately might have to pay several in the worst case several license fees for the same operation there's also the other aspect of competition so for example let's imagine those are a pizza trailer turning up and parked itself in your high street opposite the local pizza shop or even dog knows and started trading now those businesses that are paying business rates may not be very happy with a food truck that's paying relatively little to turn up and trade compared to what they're paying so there's a further question of profitability between schemes of being able to trade that we'll have to take into consideration Rachel Thank you councillor yes a couple of points there just to follow on from that city do you have a different scheme with regard to identifying pitches I don't want to confuse them out too much but we've got a street trading consent which is where we're looking at a flexible approach street trading licences which are licensed streets so city in the main focus on a couple of key points within the city where street trading is allowed and I think maybe it's a seasonal pitch etc so I'll have to be slightly different but obviously as we have any kind of policy we always consult with our neighbours as well and the other part was are we looking at being restrictive as an income generator and unfortunately our boss is here and obviously we've got the leader of the council they'd like to say yes we're going to be making lots of money here with the street trading regime but unfortunately we cannot licensing does not permit us to make a profit so it's got to be seen to recover the cost and it's very much to say what we are looking at is supporting the business obviously the last 18 months and obviously the council has been extremely good at supporting local businesses and to say what we wouldn't want to have is a commodity clash should we say so we're quite right as council members have said we've got great flexibility we can put into the policy that would say we have got pizza express outside and then we don't really want pizza truck two metres away from it trading at exactly the same time and obviously our residents probably don't want that either the whole thing is about diversity different range of foods different opportunities available so we have got a number of options available to us within the policy because we're looking at a consent but I think what I'm also looking for is a lot more guidance as well so what obviously an applicant can expect when he or she submits an application and also what we're expecting of our parish councils because that's so far they've done a great job but they're kind of clutching us to all saying we don't want this and the policy that it says we have to make sure it's in this category it's a safe space to be of course on the lay by or example in a cut through or in a pub car park where it is safe to trade we don't want people going on to the highways we've had some very random applications I've been here just over the four months but people actually coming in a very single lane through flow of traffic people expecting to pitch his burger van there and you're just thinking no we've got to have the sensible approach but I think by tailoring our brand new policy which will be a little more flexible it will give a lot more opportunities because the approach will be blanket wide so in other words anything is possible however make sure we're maintaining control, support investment I would say our main stakeholder in fairness which is a parish council here because they are obviously the most impacted and of course everything else we can consult with the highways because obviously we're affecting them but we don't need to consult with them interestingly to designate common sense streets but best practice I would obviously be seeking their view although there's no actual requirement in law for us to notify them just talking previously the previous agenda rise about how good our partnership working gears and it would hate to have several ties are there any opportunities there so it would be very much making sure our neighbouring authorities are involved and of course the highways and police etc as councillor Millens has already mentioned so lots of stakeholders involved but it's very much maintaining the protection should we say that our local parishes have had and obviously also protecting for example a couple of hours have their own bylaws so the village green for example is protected by a historic bylaw our policy won't override that if it says no street trading permitted then absolutely fine that's how it will remain so it's making sure we preserve the local provision but obviously enhancing and supporting our local businesses as well and encouraging new business Thank you Rachel for that very enthusiastic reply Thank you chair Hi I'd like to echo what Anna and Claire have already raised that this policy is really welcome and thank you very much for responding to the feedback that I know that we've given as a community here in Nallstow which really welcome and benefit from these food trucks because we don't have any other shops or restaurants so this is kind of one way our community can feel like they're getting some kind of retail experience so I just wanted to highlight obviously that you know admin is a big deal for these food trucks they don't want to be spending their business time going through so many different applications so it's really great to see that it could be combined but obviously also just while we run through this policy to ensure the costs for them as well are easily managed and also for a lot of the traders they're working as you say across the county so across district boundaries so if there are opportunities to work with our partner councils to ensure that our policies align with theirs and to make everything a lot more simple for businesses that would be really great and I think it's also a great opportunity I think the Nallstow food trucks and those within Food Park are really great examples of using sustainable plastic free policies which again we could perhaps look at being able to apply to more traditional say for example static burger van kind of businesses that we could kind of try to influence some of our businesses to be more sustainable and green thank you thank you very much Sarah Councillor Mills I don't think I mentioned particularly but I've had some discussions already with Bruce Thompson in Nallstow who is the volunteer organiser of their food trucks as Sarah John Johnson just mentioned this has been a very successful scheme and we would want wherever we can to make sure that what we introduce can fit in with such a scheme and the other place that I've just taken soundings from is Campbell again they've got a limited number of shops in their high street and food outlets and they similarly have really welcomed the arrival of food trucks and have managed it quite well so I think the other brief thing about it may be interesting and Rachel may take a note of whether it's possible to have a cross boundary licence perhaps so if somebody was working in East Cams for example but for part of the time and maybe the predominant part of the time but once it's come into South Cams whether we could do something with them and whether that might work with Cambridge City as well it sounds like it's a potential for horrendous bureaucracy so I wouldn't want to add that to the equation if we could possibly avoid it Thank you Brian Councillor Richard Williams Thank you chair yeah from my understanding and from what the answer was given and from my own research Cambridge City doesn't actually have the system Cambridge City doesn't have a blanket licence control and I did check some of the other local authorities Hunt's doesn't have a blanket licence control North Hart's doesn't have a blanket licence control East Cams does so this is not something that all the districts are doing but I must say I do have a number of concerns about this policy just because you can regulate something doesn't mean you should regulate something because regulation comes with costs now all I've heard really and all I hear in this report is that the case for this is about uniformity you know you might be on one half of a labour you might be in a parish where you have to get a licence another half doesn't but are there any actual problems I mean is there any actual evidence of traders doing anything unsafe I mean we don't even appear to know how many traders there are in the district which is a little bit worrying that we're proposing to regulate we don't even really know who we're regulating so are there any actual evidence of any actual problems of unsafe practices on that basis has any consideration been given to proceeding down a different road whereby we don't take the power centrally as a problem as a district council why don't we write to individual parishes as under the current road and ask individual parishes if they want this licence extended to the parish and presumably if the parish has had a problem they will say yes we are not devolving power here we are essentially taking a choice away from parish council so has any consideration been given to proceeding in that direction I would echo some of the comments that have been made by other councillors is this the time we've just had a policy about helping local businesses and now we have a policy where the councillor in charge has just told us there's going to be a 10 page form a fee and quite a bureaucratic process to get a trading licence how does that fit with helping businesses recover from the pandemic we're going to put a whole load of regulation and impose a whole load of cost on businesses where they don't currently have that regulation and cost so how does this fit with other parishes and on that point about parishes I think we talk as if and a lot of the talk has been somehow as if this licensing regime is going to increase provision of food vans or whatever and it's all going to be great let me give you an example this coffee trader comes to my local church once a month it's been great really brought the community together £40 for a licence for one trip a month I would very much doubt he'd come again because I can't imagine he makes that much profit so we are going to take services away from local communities by doing this and he might not fancy filling in a 10 page form either and the extra bureaucracy that comes with it but two other questions just to finish up if we do adopt this are we going to revise our current policy on treat streets trading or will we just apply the existing one of the vise in some places blanket across the district and secondly or rather my final point I've got a specific question about charity events and how charity events will be treated now one of the current policy as I read it charitable events are exempt from the requirement or traders at charitable events are exempt from the requirement to pay a fee but still require a licence now there are charitable events in all of our parishes there's one particularly in triplo in my ward the Daffodil weekend hasn't been able to run for the last two years and I do slightly worry whether we're going to endanger the prospects of that if we say that the traders who come to the Daffodil weekend many of whom are outside the district don't normally trade here but come specifically for that event and get a form and get a CRB check or whatever just to come once a year to South Cams many of them may not come so what would the rules be around charitable events like that as I say just paying the fee is not necessarily a problem people may be put off by the bureaucracy so some clarification on that would be welcome thank you Chancellor Milne let's get your teeth into that lot thank you our Libertarian Tendency Councillor Williams wants to deregulate and I'll share some of those sentiments with him too but I guess the critical issue in this regard is food safety and the health and wellbeing of our residents and making sure that unsafe practices are not being enabled by the fact that we haven't got a licensing system that works and identifies where people are trading and under what circumstances so there's an issue of equitability as we've mentioned the cross border where on one side it would be perfectly legitimate trade without a license irrespective of the food safety issue and on the other side where a fee would be liable I think the general answer to your question about whether we'll be taking existing policy and rolling it forward is everything about the policy will be reviewed in light of current circumstances as I introduced this item I mentioned that there were two different things coming together and as the shape and form of our district changes whether we've got to make adaptations to our current circumstances I think the as I say the essence of this is unsafe practices need to be regulated unfortunately because we need to protect our residents that's the underlying reason for looking at doing this across the district so and there are plenty of you wanted to ask the question I'm afraid I personally know of five or possibly six examples of food trucks operating without licences and with no food hygiene accreditation come back if I can correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that this isn't about the food hygiene safety regime is a different regime whilst it might be part of the licensing process actually food safety inspections is a different thing this isn't really about food safety inspections per se so I think it will be important to clarify that so the answer to that question if I may throw you a chair is to say if we're not aware of food providers being if we're not aware of their operation then how do we enforce food hygiene so you'll know that if you're on the high streets you are open to be inspected randomly at any time or because there's been complaints so a frequent complaint is rats have been seen in the vicinity of food premises and so environmental health officers will visit and assess their compliance with hygiene regulations and planning this and so on so there is an inextricable link between the two things make sure I don't know whether you want to send anything that's technically wrong please feel free to correct me no, not at all, but if I may chair just to answer a couple of points which hopefully may address some of Councillor William's concerns here the other question is your evidence thankfully, since I've been here, no there isn't but obviously we're a regulatory authority, that's the job of licensing to ensure we have safe well regulated businesses it's a bit like saying there'll be issues with taxi drivers, no we don't but I could say rather who didn't have stringent policies like ours, yes you have significant CSE and horrendous activities going on so the idea of the policy is to create a fair, full and balanced approach in street trading district wide which ensures safe and it's safe and well regulated safe, say look at food hygiene safe also meaning the individual is fit and proper to say trade in ice creams, have an ice cream run by a local primary school this is what we are currently missing I don't want to say alarm bells and raising alarm bells but it's to prevent bad things happening is to have a safe regulated licensing regime so I think the next question I think one thing that hopefully will bring a smile to your face Councillor was about events say fairs for example in events such as a fair so a charity event at a fair or a fund fair or a fake village fake they are out of scope of licensing in any case so your events will not be negatively impacted by this policy the policy itself is and indeed the application form because I'm all for brevity and making things as simple as possible so the forms will be cut back as much as possible but my key mission as well is to have a policy that is so succinct and actually cuts back a lot of the bureaucracy in any case a lot of the questions were asked beforehand a lot of the confusion is caused by perhaps what's in our policy so to make it clear that we need a licence when you don't need a licence what can you expect to pay for a licence what happens, what's the process all of those will be answered in this policy so the policy we have at current will not be applying anymore will have a fresh approach and a fresh policy and I believe I think it was all of the council Williams it was one of those things Rachel that I've just thought about which again we've got under consideration is the DBS checking because the situation at the moment is each licence has to be supported by its own DBS check so I think we've actually in practice relaxed that previously and we would want a system where we could rely on a single DBS check operator a person If I could, I'm really pressing my luck here but can I just on that last point about fears then so would that mean that an event in a village whereby there are stalls trading on the village green for a weekend the festival wouldn't be in this, wouldn't be covered by this because the current policy suggests they would it says charitable events don't pay the fee but it says they would be subject to the licensing which if we could get that clarified that would be very helpful I promise you would counsellor counsellor Milms and chair but it will certainly be covered and clarified within the policy exactly what is in scope of licensing on what is not and I just have to remind you that it is not for a money making incentive this is to provide a self well regulated street trading scheme across the district but to say that the idea will certainly not be to charities which like many organisations have been so bad here to have the last 18 months the last thing you want to do is hit them even further by bureaucracy and all fee payments unnecessarily thank you very much for that clarification counsellor Anna Bradlam briefly if you would please thank you chairman for letting me come back again counsellor Williams asked for examples of where it's a problem and actually if we turn to pages 31 those two examples all roads in Water Beach and C282 the Cambridge Road, Evie Road and High Street Milton I can give you some examples if you go to C282 you'll appreciate this is a low classification of road and it winds through the village of Milton you can see this is a consent street so in other words consent was required through the parish council for trading on that street in one of its bends it goes past the front of a pub and it was using one of the street trucks was using their forecourt for their vending exercise which was extraordinarily dangerous because it is right on the junction of one two, three, four, five different roads at different stages and so people standing by the truck were at risk of being hit by cars from all sorts of different directions so we thought great I checked it with the licensing authority and we were don't worry that's okay High Street and this bend in the road is covered by your consent street so we exerted this authority on them and said actually no we'd rather you didn't trade there and so they moved their operation I would say about 10 yards off the junction into Willow Crescent which is not covered by this and put their gas bottles right on the outside of their gas of their food truck which was extraordinarily dangerous as well so in this case we would have dearly liked it to be All Streets and Milton so we could have said we don't want you to be trading here but we would like you to trade here and that would have given that having that authority would have given the parish council much more power in that decision making so that's one example the second one is the fact that all roads in Water Beach are indeed covered as a consent street and we had one trader using the forecourt of a cafe which was actually the parish council didn't in principle object to them being there but they were very concerned because actually the truck was right outside it was parked in a very narrow side passageway for the cafe and actually blocked the cafe's own virus gate for the flats which were over the top of the cafe so here are examples where having this authority gives us the power in the case of the Water Beach one because it is All Streets in Water Beach so please don't trade there and we suggest you trade elsewhere so this gives the parish and the district authority the ability to input to where we do or don't want trucks trading so I hope that gives you an example of some useful big powers that it gives us sorry Jay two points one it could work but if you look at the current system you can get it designated Milton and two it's for the cabinet member to make these points not for members telling me what the problems are it's pretty shoddy if the cabinet member can't tell me what the problems are there will be no work done on it that's the point of the scrutiny committee I'm going to draw this discussion to applause now thank you very much thank you for your comments members thanks to for your input this document goes to cabinet on the 1st of September I'm sure that both Rachel and Ryan Milnes would be happy to receive any comments that you wish to make outside the meeting but I'm sure that you've also heard of the concerns that have been expressed here and you will give your consideration to those as this is a draft document before it gets to cabinet on the 1st of September thank you both for your comments and thanks members for your input and thank you chair if I may I'll just confirm the reason we're here is that your invitation for you to contribute to that discussion so that's been very useful this evening I feel including councillor Williams perfectly valid questions about the way it's intended to work so thank you for that thank you very much we move to agenda item 8 which is the work programme and next meeting will be held on the 14th of September and you can see from the work programme that that will include an update to the investment strategy and a further update to the medium term financial strategy not the MTMS presently listed and may I also remind members that in September we will have two meetings the first on the 14th of September which will be that one and secondly on the 21st of September where we will consider the next stage in the preparation of the greater Cambridge joint local plan that is likely to be I suspect a lengthy meeting but you might wish to have your dinner before rather than afterwards or perhaps we might arrange for a food vending van to come outside ladies and gentlemen my thanks to the leader to Brian Mills to Liz Watts to Anna Ainsworth for joining us for the first time to our colleagues and democratic services members who have joined us both here in the chamber and remotely any members of the public who have been watching and with that I call this meeting to a close thank you for your attendance and I genuinely mean it this time have a safe journey home