that it's just is not compatible with the whole essence of what the trail house is not only from a successful business standpoint but for the community and all the activities that occur there so I would just strongly encourage you since this is the very last time that public is going to even be able to weigh in on this it's been absolutely overwhelming in my opinion both in the planning commission meeting and here that the public outcry is to not have this or any other retail aspect at this facility thank you thank you Merlin Davis Mayor Schwedhelm and City Council thank you for your time tonight I know it's been a long evening already and you guys have withstood the torrent of comments so thank you for your time and energy I appreciate all the questions you guys have already posed to staff and the planning commission it really shows that you're hearing public concerns and I hope you guys agree that a lot of those questions haven't been answered yet or maybe can't be answered some of the things that I've heard from the public so far is that there's this concept of the fear of the unknown this anti-cannabis spiel this is definitely not the cannabis issue it's just too popular businesses going into a very tight space and they won't work together this is a fear of the known we have good ITE traffic study and good data now that shows how much traffic we're going to get at a site like this and our traffic engineer that we you know asked to review this project spoke that already and his comments are that you should expect to a site like this 12 to 30 cars needing parking spaces like that's way more than the presumed WTrans traffic study said before that was based on data from several years ago out of state in relation to businesses that were smaller or different operational characteristics so I hope you take that kind of information to heart because it's what we need to rely on is real data real known information studies done on other dispensaries and use that to translate to what you expect to see here in the proposed site and that expectation is too much traffic for the proposed usage it just won't fit on site so thank you again for your time thank you so much for waiting through the comments and trying to understand and interpret the information and really try and solve the problem thank you for your comments so those are all the cards we have you don't have to fill out a card if you want to make comments so I'd ask does anyone else want to make comments to the council please step up introduce yourself you have three minutes good evening Gary Lentz Santa Rosa I hadn't planned on speaking on this but I've been sitting here listening to this and it seems like first of all the the issue with the preschool the common sense tells me that the reason for making it so that you can't have these places near K through 12 is if the kids might be wandering around by themselves obviously with a preschool that's not going to be an issue parents are going to be picking them up they're not going to be wandering unattended in this area so I think that's sort of a moot point I've actually been to the trail house a number of times and I love it parking is an issue there at the time I was last time I was there though was when the Pliny kegs came over and it was very crowded there and it there wasn't a lot of traffic which seems to be the issue here but it was difficult to find a space but since this new business is creating their own five or six spaces it seems like maybe that's you know these are new spaces that are being created for their business and this is not something where I wouldn't think I've never shopped for cannabis I'm not a big fan of it but I wouldn't think people would go in there for 20 30 40 minutes and shopping like in a mall they're probably going in there picking something up and leaving so it's more about the traffic flow in the parking lot and like I said I was there on a very busy day a few months ago and there wasn't a lot of traffic in there it really was about finding a spot and I actually did find a spot in the parking lot so I don't know I'd like to think that these two businesses could coexist and it's not going to be you know more than five or six people in that dispensary at the same time but you know remains to be seen and then at that point if there is a problem with it I would think that the owners of the Fox then would want to move too because it's not going to suit their business to have their customers not be able to find parking so I don't know kind of tells me that maybe these two businesses can coexist and try it out and people are still going to want to go to the trail house it's a great place so that's it thanks so anyone else Ian and Celie speaking for concerned citizens for Santa Rosa I think the thing you should be considering here is the intensity of uses that in itself would argue against the reasonability of this business locating here if you look at the preponderance of comment from the public it has to do with us this fact that that it's fitting a square peg into a round hole it is the proponents have gone to extreme steps to try to make it fit in this small space and to me it doesn't work so I hope that you'll uphold the appeal thank you thank you anyone else please sir thank you I have a letter from Sonoma County Office of Education dated April 4th 2019 Dear Santa Rosa City Council community members have contacted my office concerning conditional use permit 18076 for Fox Dan dispensary excuse me located at 4036 Montgomery Drive suite B adjacent to Kiwi preschool and daycare as county superintendent of schools I strenuously object to using property around the Kiwi school for marijuana related business as the county superintendent and the county board of education we support the community standard that all cannabis operations be located a minimum of a thousand feet from a school which is the same for alcohol and tobacco retailers therefore we wish that any cannabis operations be located a minimum of a thousand feet from Kiwi school and request consideration of federal law under drug free school zone restrictions to be clear we are not anti cannabis however there is an appropriate location of space for cannabis businesses in Sonoma County and within a hundred feet of a school is not tolerable tolerable Sonoma County Office of Education firmly believes the exposure of students to cannabis alcohol or other drugs adversely affects a student's ability to achieve academic success it's physically emotionally and developmentally harmful to children and has serious social and legal consequences children are protected class and schools are expected to comply with federal standards which forbid the manufacture disproduction or possession of controlled substances including cannabis within thousand feet of parks daycare centers and schools 2-1 USCA 860 the county currently restrictions are responsible and comply with the federal standards we encourage you to adhere to the federal and county standards by setting a thousand feet perimeter around Kiwi school the city of Santa Rosa needs to continue to protect the county's most valuable resource the safety and well-being of its 70,000 students and not the profit interests of cannabis businesses sincerely Steven D. Harrington PhD Sonoma County Superintendent of Schools thank you sir could you please identify yourself just for the record could you share your name yeah I'm Greg Polt I also am the owner of Kiwi preschool got it thank you would anyone else like to address the council go ahead sir just one quick point I'm going to identify yourself yes Mike Schwartz says the architect for a trailhouse I just want to talk a little bit more in depth about the egress doors and interest doors that Mr. Wolfinger mentioned to the warehouse the pedestrian door the man door that he's talking about is in the upper right parking space which basically invalidates that parking space and that's the primary entrance to the warehouse so it's a required entrance and a required exit regardless of whether or not that door is in swing or out swing which is indicated on other drawings that's not shown at all on this drawing it wouldn't matter it's going to cancel out that parking space on the Foxden parking garage site their second exit would also exit into a parking space which is going to invalidate that space all right thank you is there anyone else who's not addressed the council yet that would like to see no one raise I'll close the public hearing now Foxden applicant has a three-minute period for a rebuttal thank you Mr. Mayor there were a lot of comments and I probably won't be able to get through them all in three minutes so do ask me any questions if there's something specific that I missed I want to start with this concept of the feeling the feeling that my clients that the applicant went through in this process was to wait for the city to come out with an ordinance to set rules to follow those rules and go through a process to find a location discover that their property would meet those rules for this type of use then to hold a neighborhood meeting and listen to these concerns and address them the design and character of the application asking for no parking reduction and ensuring that the traffic meets the city standards for a less than significant impact less than significant impact is an official term it's something that we use or doing you know secret review and isn't just something that we made up and there's thresholds that we used to look at those and we made sure that those thresholds were what the city viewed as not having a significant impact a part of that was also looking at level of service levels for the intersections this project won't change the level of service for this area because the traffic is so minute I know when we talk about traffic when you see these big numbers in these reports they seem drastic a part of that's because we're using standard rates that aren't based on the uses in Santa Rosa so those are the worst case scenario we've given you information about the actual rates for Santa Rosa dispensaries which show that those standard rates that we use were a worst case scenario we've also gone through the process of making sure that we reached out to and worked with our neighbors receiving even a written and signed agreement with Trailhouse on how this was going to integrate I hope to get back to the feeling in the camaraderie that businesses can create in an area to create that synergy which helps boost economic growth and neighborhood and community support and I think we'll get there fairly quickly it was happening in May of last year when Trailhouse signed off on this dispensary project being able to move forward and it'll happen again it was happening when we reached out to the child care facility to attempt to address their concerns we didn't receive a call back and they did cancel the meeting we have scheduled but we want to meet those concerns and we'll meet with them again in the future regardless of this process quite specifically I think it is incredibly important to recognize that this applicant has put together a proposal that meets your standards your guidelines and your requirements for the use and has done everything possible to reach out and work with the neighbors to make sure that it'll integrate well into the neighborhood I hope that you will support this project today as one last note the fires were mentioned and Dennis Hunter's here he opened up the KanaCraft offices to host the American Red Cross Response Center so we can ensure that the first five agreement that we have in there will be upheld and this will be a community serving business thank you Mr. Cassin Council do you have any questions for staff applicant or the appellant Ms. Colms I have some questions I think they are staff can staff clarify or address why the subcommittee used K through 12 and did not include pre-K at that the ordinance went through 20 sessions with the cannabis policy subcommittee over the course of two years went to a public hearing process with the planning commission and was followed by a public hearing with the city council it was the city council that adopted the ordinance is there a current requirement in Santa Rosa about distance between child care facilities pre-K K through 12 to alcohol sort of sales I know a lot of gas stations have alcohol sales there's alcohol sales going on in trail house so if I understand the question is if there are setbacks associated with off-sale alcohol use permits sale of alcohol or sale of alcohol to take off site either okay there are no setbacks to onsite onsite sale of alcohol like restaurants and delis and things like that there's no setbacks and there are no setbacks to off-sale alcohol use permits however there is a consideration asked in the code that as part of the use permit process it be considered adjacent other uses such as youth centers and daycare centers did I hear that there may be conversation within the subcommittee okay and delivery only did I hear that that could be coming forward or is that not yeah I'm sorry if I mischaracterized that delivery only was considered early in the ordinance preparation process and in the directives of how to shape the draft ordinance and that was considered and rejected as part of our ordinance and the draft ordinance was it never was amended to include that back through the process obviously I can't know what my colleagues are going to do if it were to pass as a continue as a cannabis use are there conditions that we can place on that use can we can we condition the reverse flow for example that the traffic engineer suggested yeah what's unique about a use permit is you can condition the permit particularly to relate to operational impacts of the land use we may suggest wording that allows some flexibility if it's not you know to make sure that it's considered and explored through the building and fire code compliance process but obviously that's not a process that we would undertake tonight but the direction could be conditioned can we condition that that and some kind of agreement be done with any neighbor regarding parking overflow I'm not following the specific well there's a fairly large property to the west I think this map is a little confusing because it would be south the way the map is shown but I think it's actually west there's a fairly large property set of parking there that particular property owner has put large signs up that say don't you dare park here basically it would be really good overflow parking I'm not sure why there's this relationship that's not allowing that there's a parking on the opposite side behind the property there's a theater that has a lot of parking is it possible for us to require some kind of an agreement with regard to overthrow overflow parking there may be but not in the manner that you described off-site parking on parcels that are owned by other entities could not be something that the council could condition and then require this applicant to pursue what the council could do is perhaps suggest if there are ideas discuss with the applicant the property owner if there are on-site management things that can be done to try to lessen these impacts okay there's one thing if I may I just wanted to reiterate a point I mentioned earlier but I'd like to put a little finer point on this which is the the proposal is before you tonight because cannabis retail requires a conditional use permit cannabis retail has a one to two fifty or four space per thousand square feet parking requirement general retail in this zoning district is permitted by right it has the same parking requirement four spaces for every one thousand square feet because it's permitted by right that means that if a general real retail use were to come in to our office we would give them a zoning clearance over the counter there's no discretionary review provided they meet that same parking requirement so you've heard staff mention numerous times tonight we we're focusing on the findings that really is the crux of the discussion of the action tonight that the council takes the use permit findings specifically for cannabis retail at this location if if I may ask several persons made it an analogy to a seven eleven is would a seven eleven be allowed to go in here by right so if it's a general retail use it's under twenty thousand square feet I believe is the threshold which this site is this business it would be if it had an alcohol sales it may then require offsite conditional use permit approval okay Mr. Tibbets thank you mayor somebody brought up some specific dates about actual burglary incidents at dispensaries and a few months ago we asked the police chief this I know he's not here tonight so I'm not going to ask you guys right now but we need I'd love to get an answer to that as a member of council because a lot of the decisions that I make relating to cannabis is under the premise that that these robberies are not occurring and so when this woman got very specific about the dates I think that's that's something I'd like to know in the future absolutely we I mean I believe we review those things regularly but we will find some way to communicate that that council miss lemme you have a question Mr. Weiss from here thank you so Claire I had the same question that council member Holmes had about how the setback ended up being removed in subsequent drafts and because I have shoddy recollection I think Jack and I had been in for about a month or two when we actually approved the final version of the regulations and I think at the time the explanation about preschools in particular was that because it's gonna sound ironic because it was such a focus of the city to have childcare facilities they were allowed in practically every single zoning type throughout the city so that from a practical perspective having a setback in every single zoning type would in essence make it almost impossible to have cannabis facilities go in anywhere in the city so my again my recollection might be a little bit shoddy but I figured maybe if I mentioned that you jog your memory well I think I think we would need to go back and do some additional research on this topic I I'm not disagreeing with the assumption council member I would just say we would need to go back and and do some additional look to to look at that in particular yeah no I appreciate that I just that's what I seem to remember okay Ms. Fleming this is for Attorney Gallagher is it possible for the council to take other action besides voting of or against the appellant tonight like can we make a specific request to come back with parking solutions and more information on why children under you know pre-kindergarten children were not considered originally in the cannabis ordinance next actually was going to be the next what our options are that I was going to ask Ms. Hartman to do you're more than happy to add to it Claire has to say but do you have any other questions other than that that one okay so Claire if you could just describe before I asked Mr. Sawyer to say something can you give and just so everyone in the chamber can also understand what options are before the council all right so the options that you have before you are to just in order we have a draft resolution tonight is to deny the appeal and approve the conditional use permit with that draft resolution which is consistent with the same findings that the commission made to approve the use permit another option is to uphold the appeal so the opposite deny the project but you would need to assert the findings for denial you need to relate the denial findings to the it could be one of the six or it could be more but you'd need to clarify the findings for denial and then the last one is to continue the the item with specific direction for what new information or changes to the project you'd need to see in order to make a decision one way or the other an alternative to deny the appeal and approve the project is that you are able to condition this this use permit this use permit is brought to you as a as a draft resolution but you are able to make conditions and attach to it anything to add Madam City Attorney no clear clear covered the options great Council Member Flaming do you have any other clarification no thank you yeah Mr. Sawyer you have this item certainly and for for discussion I will introduce a resolution of the Council of the City Santa Rosa denying an appeal on approving a conditional use permit for Fox 10 Incorporated to operate a medicinal and adult use cannabis retail dispens retail dispensary and delivery business within an existing building located at 4036 Montgomery Drive Assessors Parcel Number 013-284-012 File Number CUP 18-076 and way further reading is there a second for the second discussion I will second okay we have a motion the second then for discussion would you like to start Mr. Tibbets sure thanks Mayor you know for me this is a really really difficult one because on the one hand we did create a law and when we do that an applicant step forward and they meet the letter of that law it feels really wrong to deny them that pathway forward and that's kind of what this feels like to me but after I did have the chance to tour with some of the trail house folks last Friday night actually and and I've been going there regularly since they opened actually I haven't gone very frequently in the last couple of months but after being there on Friday it has gotten really busy there and Friday after five o'clock I mean it was packed I parked in the place next door where apparently you're not supposed to and I know a lot of people did so it's a problem and it's going to be a problem if this dispensary comes in it's probably going to lead to an adversarial relationship between these two businesses you know I'm worried about there being a war over parking spaces and calling the tow truck companies and this that and the other I'm not making any accusations but I think that's just that should be a concern that we need to take into consideration but I'm also thinking about okay so if this doesn't go through tonight which retail shop is going to come in by right next and is that going to help the parking the traffic situation it's not it's going to be the same and it's going to go in by right so we won't even have the opportunity to condition anything but that can then become the problem down the road of the existing tenants getting the information about the the traffic study with 20.7 cars coming in that was a heck of a lot that was a lot to look at so I guess where I'm at for the sake of discussion in hopes that it starts the rest of the council so we can have a pretty open conversation about this is that I think as this stands I can't support it but if we want to talk about taking measures on the conditional use permit to make it more of a delivery-based business I think that could work for me I'm open to ideas from the council limiting open hours that are there that might not be the kind of the peak hours for trail house and the parking limiting parking for Fox Den to the interior so they kind of stay to separate isolated entities and parking areas I mean this is getting really restrictive on the use permit and I'm not even sure that the applicant would want it but I'm trying to help create a path forward that might not necessarily be to the liking of either party but it is kind of a path forward for parties involved so I will oh the other thing that I have a real concern with is I still am not quite sure how we're building we're making the ADA improvements without kind of ripping up some of that that concrete and taking out some parking spaces for an extended period of time to me that's that is having now a material materially injurious impact to the trail house and I'm also concerned about the material impact to the Kiwi preschool so I didn't take that into consideration before in the appeals process is that being one of our our criterias for moving things forward but I do believe there are probably parents at the Kiwi preschool who are going to see this and for better for worse in my opinion for worse because I'm I'm looking at cannabis like any other business in this community but there is still a stigma about it with some people particularly parents but should the Kiwi preschool owners and teachers you know basically be the ones who who have to to deal with that so that's where I am I look forward to hearing from my colleagues it's filming your comments this is clearly a really difficult issue and it's made more difficult by the fact that the appellant Kiwi is um got one particular set of issues and Trailhouse has another set of issues I'm generally in support of our cannabis industry and I'm the only person on the council who has a preschool age child and I don't wouldn't have any issue sending her to school next door to a cannabis facility that being said I can't without more information justify why it is that we don't allow these schools for children K through 12 and expect other parents to feel as comfortable as I do about this the traffic concerns are about the issue about which I would you know really find um on on characteristics see the compatibility with the existing and future land uses I'd need to see actual solutions to that before being able to move forward because it's at present not compatible with existing uses and I'd like to see that it's physically suitable for the type density intensity of use and that I do believe under either it would cause and constitute a nuisance that being said you know I agree with council member tidbits I think that it's unfair to set a law regulation and have people come in and invest incredible amounts of money into developing a business in our community one that I would very much like to patronize but as such it does not fit and you know I had written in my notes square peg and round hole and I heard that echoed a number of times I would like to suggest that we condition this and find I'd like to have more information about why we don't have setbacks for children under the age of five and I would like to know how close we can get to delivery based business and if the owners of the proposed Fox then would be amenable to that and that I am sincerely sorry that this is inconveniencing them in this way it's not a decision that's been easy to make I'll lose sleep on it because I won't be able to go there very soon miss Combs thank you I think this is clear as mud the mind I want to be clear that my decision is not based on fear of cannabis or the cannabis industry I view the regulations that we used that we should be using as those similar that we use for alcohol sales it looks to me as if we have issues or I personally have an issue with regard to c d and e in our set of appeals reasons it is it is not the same set as the ones that repeatedly reference children from our basis of appeal page 20 but but mostly focused on parking traffic flow circulation health and safety issues with regard to to those elements that said I would support a delivery only at this site I don't know how we get from here to there I if we are going to move forward with conditions I have conditions but it's not clear to me if we're doing this conditionally or if we're doing this up or down again not comfortable with it the way it is but it's the parking traffic and circulation issues that are leading me to conclude cd and er issues for me if I may through the mayor I just want a caution council that to the extent that you have concerns due to the particular circumstance of this application and this location then you're exactly right you'll need to look at those six findings that you have to make but with respect to that you might prefer now to have a setback to preschools that the ordinance is set so unless you found something particular about this particular operation and this particular preschool that would distinguish it you're not going to be able to go to you're not going to be able to go there let me clarify for myself since your comments come immediately following mine that my comments are not with regard to setback from preschools okay thank you my comments and I'm going to be real clear about that I can understand wanting to ask that or read is it that but that is not the point of mine my comments exactly my comments are specific to what I believe from reading traffic reports to be because it is not the kind of retail where someone comes parks and shops at length this isn't like a consignment shop this isn't like the other kinds of retail this is a retail establishment that is more of the type that individuals come and run back out almost like and that's you know I'm not anticipating that people will be parked for long periods of time and I'm not seeing in the traffic studies an indication that people will park for a couple of hours it's looking to me like there's much more rapid turnover and for me that is a problem with this business in this setting and that creates the problems with cd and e for me and I I appreciate I may have colleagues who need to make other statements yes and I appreciate that clarification and I just like to clarify it was not was because there were several council members who seemed to be going towards the setback issue you can certainly suggest that the council or the subcommittee look again at that issue but I just want to clarify before we got too far down that road again not specific to council member combs but to the the full council that the issue of setbacks is not not may I clarify my comments first of all were you were you done with combs thank you I think I've said what I need to say very clearly but would like to add comments if we end up in a discussion of conditions Ms. Fleming yeah so my request is separate from my findings in that I would like the cannabis subcommittee I would like further clarification on how they reached that decision but that's not what I'm basing my findings on again I said I would be comfortable sending my child to a preschool in a very close proximity to a cannabis dispensary my findings are based on the parking issues primarily and that's it Mr. Vice Mayor thank you Mr. Mayor first for a little bit of clarity and this is I should have given a little bit more of a report in our council member comments but at the last cannabis subcommittee we did talk a little bit about whether we wanted to open up the setback requirement and what we did was we deferred to a date further down the road once we actually see a little bit about how the ordinance as it's been drafted has is actually operating I think the feeling from the subcommittee and John can weigh in on this as well as we don't have any data and if we're going to be making decisions we need to actually be looking at what the actual impact is not just based on fear but based on actual measurable data so John can weigh in on that if he wants Mr. McCarthy in his public comment asked us to flip this around and how would the conversation be if it was the cannabis facility that was in there first and the trail house was coming in second and part of why I've been doing that ever since this became an issue when I knew that this was coming to council I've been trying to look at it through that lens as well and part of my line of questioning in the beginning for staff about the cumulative impact is because it feels wrong to prevent a business from being able to move in because of impacts that are largely associated with the other business yes because they're being successful and that's what I was trying to look at is in every way that I can think about this trail house got a variance on their parking to reduce it and they're very successful so they're seeing more people there than were anticipated and it is not the applicant's fault by the measure but where I come down with it and again citing the same thing as council member Tibbetz finding e granting the permit would not constitute a nuisance or be injurious to persons property or improvements in the vicinity and so if this was reversed and if the cannabis facility was there initially and trail house was trying to come in with this impact I think I would deny that application as well it's not about the cannabis aspect it's about the cumulative impact on an area that is having traffic flow issues and parking issues already to begin with if we were to open up for conditioning the conditions that I would need to see on the project in order to feel more comfortable with it moving forward is addressing the traffic flow issues the potential safety aspect issues around the blind corners the pedestrian ADA access from Montgomery drive and then I do also think that there needs to be some condition where the parking spaces that are indoors would need to be forward facing as they come out because the the ability of somebody to back out of those spaces into oncoming traffic would concern me as well again when I look at the design for this facility on slide 15 if I picture it without the parking spaces being within a building indoors that looks like it would be an appropriate parking spot but understanding the existing parking lot but understanding the existing conditions of traffic flow and the already inaccessibility of the buildings I just can't make finding E thank you we'll save you for last Mr. Sawyer I'll make my comments so first of all I really appreciate staff's work on this and all the work that the planning commission did on this and this is one of those experiences where if I just read all the reports check check check it fits within those parameters but then unfortunately I can't do that because I've been to the site both before I'm visiting with both the trailhouse folks and the Fox stand folks I frequent in the business there and it's one of those things where just the get kind of tell you this just doesn't fit there because it's crowded as it is and again similar conversations to the vice mayor if you flip the rolls well if Fox stand had been there first and we had the experience of the amount of traffic in and out there I would form the opinion based on what would be that next business coming in but unfortunately it's flipped and to me this business just doesn't seem to fit there I have part of the concerns where the location that QB preschool I have no concerns about that whatsoever because the cannabis business especially a dispenser there's no on-site consumption quite frankly I have more concerns about alcohol consumption that close to the preschool than the sales of a legal product and that's what we've been trying to do this is a legal product we're putting things in place to manage that so I have no concerns about the location in perspective to the Kiwi but just seeing the traffic concerns and the safety concerns that's where my concerns are and because of that I cannot make all six required findings listed below like councilmember combs I cannot make those same required findings of cd and e Mr. Sawyer thank you mayor and I wanted to thank the entire public participation this evening it was as calm and respectful as it was at the planning commission meeting and there were considerably more people so I want to thank you for your behavior because this can be a very emotional topic where I fall on this has to do with process and the the planning commission struggle a great deal with this as well I think they saw the they viewed their role in a particular way and I view mine in a particular way I find it interesting that the landlord was willing to to put together an addendum I know my landlord would not have asked me whether it was okay to put a particular business next to mine and they didn't and they put businesses that I was not necessarily pleased with and they didn't come to me and ask me if I thought it was okay so I asked to give a lot of kudos to the to the landlord for for putting together an addendum and asking a current tenant whether or not they would be willing to to entertain a dispensary on the property and it's unfortunate that there seem to be a misunderstanding about that as well and and that and I don't know what was in the original lease maybe there was a requirement that they'd be asked about the the unadjoining business but I see a this cannabis business having gone through a very long and grueling process for over a year they jumped through all the hoops staff told them what they had to do and what kind of parking they had to come up with I think that they they did jump through those hoops and they follow the rules and they we need to have a process that is clear and consistent and fairly applied and resulting in a successful and predictable result if you if you jump through those hoops so I have a it it is a it is a difficult decision because trail house is such a special place I mean it is a very very special place I've been there numerous times the the vibe is great you know it's it it feels good and it's and that and that concept was was discussed this evening as far as a feeling but I also feel like I have an obligation to to protect the process and to respect the process and so I can see that this is not going to happen this evening I can count and I understand all of my colleagues concerns and I and I and I value their the input both of the staff and my colleagues and and the public but I'm in my opinion the applicant has the landlord has a right to to rent to the applicant and the applicant has a right to put in according to our rules and our policies and regulations and ordinances they have a right to try to succeed and that's how I would come down on this on this decision it's unfortunate that there was a a perhaps unfortunate that there was a decision to reduce the parking requirement by 10 spaces which reduced it from 30 to 20 if there were 30 spaces there we may not be having this conversation right now so sometimes our in our desire to encourage businesses to thrive and open up and make it as easy as possible we actually doom ourselves to difficulty in the future which is looks like we have done in this case once we allowed Trail House a very special business to open with a such a small number of parking spaces because they're paying the price of that too I'm not sure what the future holds for the parking as they grow and as they get more and more popular but it's not going to get better I can almost guarantee that so I think those those are my comments that there's there they're in likes the struggle thank you Mr. Sawyer Madam St. Clair could you just let us know what the I'm looking at the city attorney Madam City Attorney either one of you can you just restate what the motion is on the floor and then what a yes vote means and what a no vote means so we're all clear I could restate it if that would be easy I just want to make sure I didn't have the resolution right in front of me and George should I restate it may restate it you can restate it or or or actually in this it's unless it's going to flip and if it's going to flip then I'll pass it if I may offer one item here the applicant has I'm teeing it up for someone go ahead all right I'm I'm going to swing here we go the applicant is obviously listening to the discussion and would be interested in if the council pleases in a continuance to continue to work through these items the onsite issues the circulation issues parking issues and also try to resolve some of the issues just simply between these two businesses so I want to do that Mr. sorry you made the motion would you like to rescind your motion or yes I mean too I would rescind my motion do we need a second for that is that if no that's fine he he can withdraw the motion on his own if the seconder would like to affirm that he's comfortable with that thank you and I'm seeing it not a thumbs up on on behalf of council member Tibbets okay so so that motion is withdrawn and you are free council members any council members are free to make a new motion so I'll entertain a new motion on council mr. vice mayor I will make a motion to continue it to allow the applicant to try to address the concerns particularly the ones that I enumerated my comments as council member Sawyer said I think we have an obligation to give folks an opportunity to try to make it work if they want to keep doing that but I do know from what we heard from the public and from what we heard from the council it's going to be a really high bar to try to address the traffic flow the parking all of that but I'm certainly willing to allow them to continue to try to work with the city to try to see if you can find an agreement for additional parking off-site that'd be ideal I think as well and do we have a second for the motion to continue second is it the peace finger or the verbal Ms. Fleming seconding that motion is there any further discussion with the motion for to continue this topic Ms. Gomes I would be willing to support the continuance but I am concerned that we make it clear that there are ADA and egress issues there's parking issues there's traffic and traffic flow issues the the difference between the two traffic engineering reports is surprising and should there should be some resolution there including the discussion of how to their how the delivery system is going to be managed for delivering product to the entity and personally would hope that we would work with the applicant as a city as a subcommittee on delivery only options being coming more available any additional comments Mr. Kivitz yeah thank you I'll add to that just to reinforce my request to the cannabis subcommittee to look at that very issue because I had heard and I don't know if this is true or not that this this conceptually started as kind of a delivery driven business and if that is the case that our subcommittee helped foster that all right Mr. Sawyer comment just a kind of a question comment concept the applicant has been working everyone's spending a lot of money on this and I'm hoping that there we need to have a great amount of clarity on what it is this council is expecting the applicant to provide into fix so that we don't find ourselves back in the situation where we we go back to the drawing board create a large number of expensive solutions and then it's not good enough when they come back again how can how can we clearly identify to the applicant what they need to provide as far as an application or a proposal so it's not to continue to spin everyone's wheels because it's not just the applicant it's also there's a great deal of stress that that that trailhouses experiencing with this everyone is experiencing a fair amount of stress and angst over this so I'm just looking for a real high level of clarity on what it is we are expecting from this applicant so that we don't have them jump through the hoops again and then find that they are failing if I may you're welcome to identify as a council the particular items that you are concerned about and would like to see addressed that being said however the way that appeals operate under our zoning code you will still be free when it comes forward next time to explore other options it's really not feasible and I would not recommend you trying to tie the hands of the council that ends up hearing hearing the appeal again but you are free to give guidance as to the as to the items that you are particularly concerned about as of this evening but again you still retain the flexibility down the line of if additional issues arise and I appreciate that and my my suggestion was not to condition we can't condition something like that but but as much as we can clarify so that we give them a reasonable shot without it of course there are never guarantees and I appreciate that thank you Mr. Vice Mayor yeah and I think I'm appreciative of that as well and also aware that what could end up happening if we were to just deny the appeal is that the applicant could go back make some changes and then have to start through their process again so I think part of what I'm acknowledging is there's issues with this proposal as it comes forward that the council would not be willing to approve but also making sure that the applicant is able to have that opportunity without having to start from square one again if they can find a way to make it work so that's really where where I'm at with this is this project as it is doesn't have the votes to move forward but at the same time I don't want to have to make the applicant start at square one Miss Jones so I just like clarification of what it means if we continue because continue is a different kind of animal than some of the others if we continue do both parties get to make new statements when they come back if we continue does Kiwi have the ability to add or change to their basis of appeal as well as other parties the other party Fox Den make changes to what they are proposing what's what's the what are the what happened what are the next steps what can and cannot happen on a continuance sure and under this under these circumstances and if I'm reading council correct you're asking for additional information and particularly additional information and some additional solutions from the applicant given that you are going to want that the continuance is not simply for your own internal deliberations it's really to receive additional information then yes both sides both the appellant and the applicant would have the opportunity at the continued hearing to raise issues to address issues to try to find solutions to voice objections everything would be would be open again under other circumstances you could continue it only for your own deliberations but that's not what I understand you want this evening any other clarifying questions okay we have a motion in a second your votes please and that is six ayes and and if I may I'll just also clarify as as Claire reminding me of course the public will also have a full opportunity to weigh in at that future meeting as well and I want to thank them members of the public for attending as late as this goes and for understanding that they may be invited back again and that is I appreciate difficult especially for folks with preschool kids yeah I think the consensus of the council are just we're trying to find a win-win here that what was presented tonight didn't fit that definition so mr. McGlynn item 16 so item 16 is being continued because it I've just informed that it needed to be what's what are you I'm sorry it's that item is being continued because the agenda item was not noticed properly great thank you we'll come back madam city clerk do we have any additional public comment cards seeing none meetings adjourned


All right, so now that we've dealt with one of the problems that created that asterisk when we spoke about this update rule as gradient descent, let's talk about the second problem, which we spoke about as this problem that our labels that we're supposedly doing regression on, those labels are actually moving themselves, because they are a function of phi, because there's a q phi involved there. And we don't actually treat that correctly. We don't take a gradient through the target value. So how do we deal with this problem? Well, because of this problem, first of all, because of this fact that the labels are moving, you aren't really doing gradient descent on any fixed objective, because the objective function is effectively changing as you optimize your q. And so this can lead to instability. And the solution is quite simple. All we do is we deliberately force our q phi to be fixed for some duration. So in particular, the q phi that we use to compute the label is not the original q phi, not the q phi that we're optimizing, but it's actually an older version of the q phi that we don't update as regularly as this one. So let's write that out a little bit more clearly. We're going to use two q networks. One of those networks is going to be called the target network. The other one is the standard q network. And the labels are going to be computed. When we're computing the labels, we'll compute them using the target network. The target network is going to have parameters phi prime instead of the parameters phi in the original network. So therefore, we'll replace this term with all of the same stuff except that inside here when we're computing the labels, we're going to have the labels computed using q phi prime. So this is computed via the q network, and this is computed via the target network. And what this does is that it stabilizes at least locally for some duration. It stabilizes the training so that we're actually performing gradient descent, because the labels are going to stay fixed for some time, because the q phi is going to be kept fixed for some time. So you update the target network only occasionally, only once every k iterations. So that takes us to deep q learning v3, which looks a lot like deep q learning v2, except for that it has this one additional target network trick. So in particular, everything in deep q learning v2 is in steps 234 over here. And now we have one additional loop on the outside, which involves occasionally saving target network parameters. So we're going to save target network parameters, then collect a data set, then optimize several times using many mini batches on the labels provided using that target network. And we're going to repeat that process, still having the same target network. So we have this, the second loop, which we repeat n times, where we still use the same target network. We haven't yet changed the target network. So we are continuing to improve our policy, continuing to collect new data sets by interaction with the environment, all the while while using the same target network. We do this for a while. And then finally, we update the target network in the automorphism loop. And so you can now think of this as, because now we've fixed this problem of the target's changing, we are effectively doing supervised regression in all of this portion. All of that is supervised regression. And so we effectively are actually now correctly doing gradient descent. This is actually now really gradient descent on a regression loss, because we have this mean squared error loss over the squared Bellman error. The squared Bellman error is effectively a mean squared error loss because we fixed the labels. And so we are effectively doing supervised regression up until this point. And then we change the labels, right? We change the labels when we save a new target network. And then we run supervised regression again. So the number of points at which this instability of having new values to regress to is much smaller now. So this deep Q learning v3 that we've seen now is a general version of the classic deep Q learning algorithm. And in particular, the reason I say it's a general version is because in the classic deep Q learning algorithm, we have K equals one. And this is the algorithm that is maybe the most widely known as deep Q learning, where K equals one, meaning that we only update on a single mini batch before collecting more interaction in the environment and adding it to the replay buffer. So that's all that's happening over here. You can take a look at this and convince yourself that that's exactly what's written here with K equals one. And so this approach deep Q learning has worked really well. It made a big splash in 2013 when this algorithm was developed. It was considered a major step forward for reinforcement learning when it was shown that this algorithm can solve a variety of Atari games like what's shown here. And what was particularly striking about those results was that the very same DQN algorithm was shown to be able to work across a wide variety of games. The same algorithm could play breakout, it could play space invaders, it could play about 50 Atari games. And later, the same algorithm was also shown to be able to help with continuous control problems. In particular, you can modify DQN using this approach called DDPG for continuous control problems where your actions are continuous rather than the discrete actions we've been dealing with. And that lets you do things like robotics, where you typically have to deal with these kinds of continuous actions in order to be able to accomplish tasks. That includes, for example, driving as well, where in order to actually drive, you need to control, for example, the steering, which is a continuous input rather than discrete.


We're going to go to L-Sip Nursery and hopefully count for a... Squat. It's perfectly fine. So you like the rest of my makeup?  What is up, Marvel Squad? And welcome back to our channel. If you guys are new, make sure to hit that subscribe button and turn your post notifications because you don't want to miss out on any one of our videos. You already know on our channel, we've been doing these challenges where we see if we notice each other. Today we're supposed to be filming a video where we go shopping. Like, if I guessed the price right, he's gonna buy it for me. But instead, I'm gonna do my makeup so bad at the point where he's like looking at me weird. Like, hopefully he might be really supportive and be like, yeah, that looks good on you. But with what I'm doing, I personally don't think he's gonna like it, but who knows, guys? So I'm going to do a makeup super, super, super bad. Like, things that I've never done before, like eye shadow weird, I never wear like lipstick because I feel like I never really found a good shade for me, so I'm just gonna do all that. If you give me weird looks, that's the whole goal. I want him to see if he's gonna notice how bad my makeup is. Today's shout-out goes to Brianna Grimmoldy. Shout-out to you. Awesome video, love you guys. Can I get a shout-out please? And so here you go, you just got your shout-out thingy for all your love and support. We appreciate it so much. All right, Marvel Squad, let's start this hideous makeup routine. Here we go, foundation. And guys, I usually set my foundation after, but today we're not setting my foundation. I'm be all dewy and nasty. While I put my foundation on, we're gonna do a little time lapse until I finish this and we will see you guys in the next step of my makeup routine. Well, hideous makeup routine. Guys, look, it's really not the same color on my skin. This is just already really, really bad. So I just finished blending it in, which I even make sure that I blended it out well because you gotta make it look bad.  I'm bronzing it to the extreme. Oof, ooh, that's already bad. Guys, oh, oh no, oh no, oh no. Oh no, there's no way of blending this bad boy out. This is why I set my face. Look at that, oh no, oh no. Look how bad that is. Marvel Squad, this is not lit.  I don't, you know, some people, some girls like really use a lot of blush. I'm gonna be that person today. Just cake in my face with blush. Rosie Cheek Day, look at that. Oh my God, guys, this is not okay. I would never do this on a daily. This is just disgusting. Guys, if you guys saw this in person, it's like so bad. We're just gonna go into eyeshadow now. I think we should do this ice pop in here. I usually have a Morphe and Color Pop palette, but I'm not gonna use it for this video. I don't wanna ruin the palette. Guys, see, look, look how dramatic that is already. Oh no, that's a killer eye. We're about to be filming a lit video of makeup like this, so you better be ready. All right, guys, so I think that's blended out decent. Ah, not at all, that's bad. I don't really wear these lipsticks, but they're from Sephora. I think this pinky color will match the best, I think. Probably not, but that's the whole point. Here we go.  I know, I'm just trying to throw it on there. Guys, I'm gonna laugh so hard when he walks in the door.  All right, well, lipstick's applied. I got it out of my lines. This is why you lip line first, but you know what, just threw it on. I was gonna glob on some mascara, and I will see you guys at the final look. I didn't even put my mascara on as good as I should, but guys, let's go in the sunlight here. Oh, this is just disgustingly ugly. You know what, guys, let's see if he notices. Bill should be here in about like 30 minutes. My face is white, I'm like Casper, Lee. I'm literally white as a ghost, bless. I'm gonna stop talking, and we're gonna get on this video, and the next time you see me, we'll be setting up the camera in our next destination. So I will see you guys very shortly. 12 seconds later. All right, Marvel Squad, I decided to just set my camera here. Told them the garage is open just to call upstairs. I hid the camera, so I'm really good in the room, so he doesn't see the camera at all. I'm just gonna be here in about five minutes, and I'm a little nervous because I hope he notices, because if he doesn't, I don't wanna go off filming like this. I will see you guys in like five minutes when he gets here. You weren't listening today. Yeah, I wanted to be different. I like it. You do? Are you waiting for the video? Yeah. Yeah, you actually like it. I thought it was different and cute. You actually like it. Yeah, I mean it's cute. Okay, well, I thought it would be cute for changing the video and just to wear lipstick. Yeah, I mean it looks good. I'm just trying to wear lipstick lately. I mean, it might not be my actual, it might not be my color, it might be too dark and vibrant. Okay, I'm not being mean, but I think you put it a little too high on this side. Like this? I mean, it's fine for the video. Is that how it's supposed to look? Yeah, I just did it a little different. It's my first time. Yeah, it looks good. Looks good? That's good.  Yeah. When are you gonna go home? We could film right now. Yeah, because we gotta post. We do gotta post soon. Might have to actually post before we film, so. What? Why are you laughing? Nothing, nothing. Why nothing? You're being really weird. I'm not being weird. You're not wearing my makeup? No, you're not. You've been weird. Ever since you saw my lipstick, you're like, are you wearing lipstick? I know, it's just different. I like it. You like it? It looks good on you.  Well, I feel like it's gonna stain my lips or not. No, it stains my lips. This isn't even wet. Oh, it stained my hand. It doesn't look bad. I mean, it's different. I gotta get used to it. I didn't, you know, it's just, well, I'm gonna go to the bathroom. Okay, I'll start setting up the camera. Should we post before we start filming? Cause it's literally three minutes. Yeah, so we're gonna post and then we're gonna film this video and have a good time. Why are you laughing like that? Cause you look good. Wow, I think you actually think I look good with lipstick. You look good.  Aw, thank you. Yup, set up the camera. Cause he's about to go to the bathroom, so let's go. What is up, Mom and Dad? And welcome back to our channel. If you guys are new, make sure to hit that subscribe button and turn on your post notifications because you don't want to miss out on any one of our videos. Not at all, not at all. So what are we doing today in this video? Today's video, we are going to be doing, if you guess the price, I will buy it for you. We're gonna be going to stores and you're gonna be trying to guess the price and stuff. I'm gonna get it right. And you're not gonna get it right, but if you do get it right, here's the rule. She gets to have whatever she guesses, within reason. So if it's like a couple dollars, we'll give it to her, okay? But um. Why do you keep looking at me laughing? I'm sorry, your lipstick is just like bam. I honestly think you just put like, like see how your lip ends right here. Look at it, you babe, you put it on your, almost your cheek. I just try to do something cute. Oh no, don't get mad, I'm not. You look beautiful. You keep laughing after you say beautiful. You look beautiful. No, let's finish the video.  No, you just gotta do the intro, then we can go to the store and have fun. I don't even want to film this anymore. You don't even like my makeup. Look at it, how about, how about me? I'm so embarrassed. How about we get a makeup wipe, okay? And we just wipe the top part of your lip, because I don't want you going, I can't be looking like bad. It's so rude, I don't want to film. Hey, you look beautiful.  Yeah, no, no, you literally, no, no, no, no, no. Don't get annoyed, baby. Okay, look at it, see, look at it in the thing. Okay, see how? It's not even just a lipstick, like, yeah.  You look beautiful. And we could keep, we could film like this or we can make it look like sharp. You know what I mean? But this is how I do my makeup all the time. I just do something different. Honey, don't do this all the time. Yes, I do. You're gonna tell me right now.  I know. You're being so rude. Okay, fine, let's film. If you think you look good, I think you look good. But I'm just trying to look out for you.   It's really not funny. Babe, you're making this so difficult. Okay, babe, I don't know. You can just look in the lens. That'll look great. You look great. You should be hyping me up. Okay, let's film, let's film. Let's film, okay, fine, fine. I'm sorry. You're right, no. Let's film. Okay, ready? I'm just trying to look out for you because like... You want to film, but you keep going and you keep hugging you down. Okay, okay, let's go, let's go, okay. Yeah, so anyways guys, before we start the video. We do gotta give our... We do gotta give our video... Stop looking at me like that. The reason why I can't talk to you. I can see you staring at me. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Is my makeup really that bad? No, it's not bad. I tried to do something different. I'm never doing this again. Babe, your makeup looks pretty good. I should have just wear no makeup. I made myself not like presentable. I literally, I love what you did with the place, right? But... I'm not a place, I'm a person. I love what you did with yourself, but like, it's just the lines, they're just a little wavy and I just, I didn't know if you wanted to leave people like that. The little wavy, that's so bad. I didn't know if you wanted to keep it like that. It's perfectly fine. Is this really like the rest of my makeup? I mean, yeah, like it, you know, it... It just looks off. It literally like, okay, the eyeshadow. That's eyeshadow, right? Yeah. Okay. And then your lips, like... I thought I did a really good job today. No, you didn't. Okay, look at me. It's off. Look at me. Look at me. You, it looks really good, right? It's just... So you're embarrassed basically. It could be, it could be bad. You don't wanna keep filming because you're embarrassed. No, if you wanna keep filming, I wanna keep filming. But you say like, if I have something on my face, if I have something on my teeth, you tell me. Like, I mean, you can't really see it in the camera. So it's not bad. I'm just like in person. It just looks a little off today. You see it, you always do it like this. I don't remember. Well, I wanted to change it up and wore a lipstick today. And you don't like it. So... So cute. I do love it. So let's just, let's film this video because you're right. No, it looks good. I'm just, I'm just looking at it. I'm here, you can't really understand. Now I'm not even like in the mood. I'm just disappointed. No, not what I'm gonna know. You don't like it.  All right, so we will see you at the first store. What is the first store that we're going to? We're gonna go to L-Sip Nursery and hopefully count for a... What? Oh my God. Okay, I'm sorry. I'm just having like a laughing attack right now. Not you. Yes, you clearly are. I was thinking of something that, a joke from the other day. Whatever. No, we're done filming. We're done filming. I'm trying to help you out. Okay, get off me.   Okay, okay, what do you want to do? Do you want to film or do you want to stop? And we can stick your makeup in film. Actually, Bill, I already filmed today because this video is, I do my makeup horribly wrong to save my boyfriend notices. And clearly you did. What? I'm doing my makeup horribly wrong to save my boyfriend notice of me. So you did this on purpose? Yes.  That's why, that's why. You actually hurt my feelings. I did? Yeah, a little bit. Because what if I actually bore lipstick like this?  So is this, are you pranking me or? Well, it's kind of like the witch challenges where. Oh my God. Did I notice? Yes, I did. I noticed. Did you not think I was going to notice? Guys, the reason why he doesn't like my lipsticks is literally it's going off my lip. Wait, so we're not going to film this video today? Mm-mm. Why? I mean we could film it after this, but, but yeah, you just kind of got pranked. Oh no. Oh no. I knew something was off. Oh my God, Marvel Squad. I knew, I knew from the start. When did I notice? I noticed what I was doing. No, you were saying it looked good in the beginning and I was like, whoa. I noticed, I was trying to keep your morrow up, but I did look you want to tell you that you need to like get a fresh cut, you know? Like, you needed to line that up, you know? Yeah, it's bad. Like, and you did, did you not even blend this? Yeah, I just did whatever. It's sticky, my face is sticky.  It's sticky in my faces. Did you realize that half is different than half? Do you realize it doesn't even match my skin? Oh yeah, I didn't even notice that. Yeah. Anyways guys, thanks for giving this video a big thumbs up. This is the way to do film the intro. Yeah, I already did everything. Really? Yep. So I don't have to do anything. Nope. Oh my God. I'm just going to go eat some food, play on my computer, play guitar, do something. Mm-hmm. And yeah. Well thank you guys for watching my reaction. I hope you loved it. And we gotta do, we do gotta give our end of the video a post notification shout out. So today's post notification shout out goes to Tamron Rent. So shout out to you. Shout out to Tamron. Thank you for being a part of our channel. We love you. And I'm going to go wash up his makeup because I'm looking very, very ratchet. So I hope you'll see you guys.  Are you have to redo it now? I'm not even, I'm redoing my whole face.  Yeah. I know how long it takes for you girls. Oh no, you probably didn't even take that long to do this. I really just threw it on. Yeah, this was probably just kind of like headed it on because it looks like that.  I was not trying to. I would have been hard too.  You're just looking out for me.  It was see you guys in the next video. But until then. Peace.