Hi everybody, Joe for Jaspy's case breaks.com. Happy Thursday coming at you with 2017-18 Panini opulence basketball three-box Ram team break number one some pretty opulent stuff in here It's pretty nice featuring this draft class right here, right? So Lonzo Jason Tatum deer and Fox Dennis with junior even who I think was said he wants to go to the G league so he can get some more playing time good for him Zach Collins Donovan Mitchell bam out of bio, of course Luke Knards looking good for the pistons edition here But looking good for the Clippers John Collins. I like Jared Allen and Obie Kuzma even so pretty decent pretty decent draft class here ladies and gentlemen So big thanks to these folks for getting into the action. I appreciate everybody who bought their spot straight up Thanks to the people who risk took a risk on the Chronicles fat pack rakes Congrats to the winners All 30 teams are in let's roll it. Let's randomize each list Two and a five lucky seven times your names first one two four six And seven the final time after seven we've got Randy down to Michael Two and a five seven times for the basketball teams one two three four five six and Seventh and final time after seven we got the jazz down to the Clippers Cavaliers that is not clippers caps different C team All right, Randy with the jazz J with the C's Jeff with the Wizards Joe with the heat Juan with the Clippers Louie with the magic and the trailblazers Taylor with the Bulls Shawn with the Knicks Roy with the Thunder Pacers for Matt Patrick with the Suns and the Grizz Shawn with the Spurs Juan with the Nuggets Chad with the Pistons Martin with the Rockets Robert with the Hawks Jeff with the Hornets Louie with the Kings Kevin with the Bucks Demetri, you got the Warriors James with the T-Wolves warriors are up one sixteen one-on-one on the Mavs right now James with the T-Wolves John O with the Mavs the Mavs Could they come back nine minutes a lot of time left Demetri with the Nets Joshua with my Lakers Juan with the Sixers Jonathan with the Pelicans Matt with the Raptors and Michael S with the Cleveland Cavaliers Let's get all this on one page. It's alphabetized by column B by team and Remember this is a three box break It's a full case Right here. So consider that while you consider trades. I'm gonna pause the video when we come back We're gonna see if there's any trades and then the brakes stick around BRB All right, welcome back No trades here. So thanks everyone This remains the same. It's all good. Don't have to trade no big deal See what we got what's been marinating in here since 2017 18 and go big or go home all three boxes Good luck everybody There's the first one right here. I remember when this first came I think 1718 was the first year they did an opulence. It was pretty pricey, but not very many people I think wanted to really do it But then in recent years, I think it's really it's really picked up a lot of steam Base card on the bottom. No, it's an auto on the ball interesting. All right. It's like a good one Let's uh I don't know if I need a blank card Yeah, maybe I will maybe once it gets down here Might be able to see it. All right We're gonna lead off with Lonnie. Nope Mike Conley. That is That'll be for Memphis. That'll be for Patrick. That is Five out of 79 and got Dario Sarge Dario Sarge for the Sixers that is 43 out of 79 that will be for Juan Rudy go bear for the jazz That'll be for Randy and Utah that is 17 out of 25 Remember we go by the team for that particular for this particular year. We don't do any updates I'll be a nightmare for the shipping team Jersey and autograph that is Enos canter for the Knicks That's gonna go to New York. That'll be for Shawn Matic nine out of 49 That's how it's always worked Logan All right. Next up is like that Brooke Lopez Lakers edition. I wish we kept him around. That's an excellent patch right there What's this number to 10? Five out of 10 Be the is that the L right it could be the L of that It's pretty nice though Lakers Josh Wilson with my Lakers nice We've got Kenny sky walker Nice Kenny sky walker 25 out of 25 that's impossible Shawn Matic with that one and More Knicks there's Alan Houston and that is 31 out of 49 We've got rookie patch auto Terrence Ferguson. Okay, see that's gonna be for Roy 49 out of 79 Couple more to go we have oh For the Knicks Chris stops poor zingus His autograph looks like pony the pony. Oh, we're watching the pony right now Playing for the Mavs now But this goes to Shawn Matic and the Knicks. It's like a Knicks box here nice That's 23 out of 25. Yeah, what a box for the Knicks. All right, and let oh Wow poor zingus did did panini. No back in 2017 that poor zingus would be playing The Warriors on the night That we were opening up a case of opulence basketball 8 out of 25 Golden State Warriors Demetrios to I Pulled a Steph Curry autograph last night For two for two on separate Alright, there's Clay Thompson. We'll see him next year Dmitri with the Warriors Warriors come out to play 32 out of 75 we got KCP For the Lakers 30 out of 75 for Josh and my Lakers we got Kemba Walker 7 out of 25 and he's he doesn't want the Sky Nickname Kemba Sky Walker Dennis Smith, Jr. Three-color patch and autograph Dallas edition going to John. Oh Recently asked to Go down to the G League so he can get some playing time, which I think it's pretty admirable. I'd want to play too 13 out of 25 Hopefully comes back comes back strong. That'd be hashtag good for the Avi We got Jersey and Otto for the Clippers Pat Bev 42 out of 49 Patrick Beverly for one and the clip show We got a piece of gold right here That's awesome Well sliver of gold that's Harrison Barnes 13 out of 20 in his team USA gear must be Warriors edition back in 2017 right maybe not I think maves. Yeah, Oliver. I think you're right Let me just double-check this checklist Because because the years are kind of right next to each other So sometimes panini. I don't know. Let's see what they did with this Let's go cardboard connection.com team checklist. Let's scroll down to No, actually, no, these are all All says, let's see what group rate checklist assigns them to because cardboard connection.com just assigns them to Team USA. There's the opulence checklist group rate checklist calm Standby if you're watching the replay of this you can just fast-forward through this part I think it might be maves. Oh, Oliver. I think you're right Harrison Barnes auto gold metal USA And they're Mavericks just wanted to double-check to make sure Dallas John. Oh, yeah, that's pretty cool though You got like a kind of a gold metal design right here Got Olympics this summer folks At least I think they will Another gold piece Lenny Wilkins for the St. Louis Hawks We're of course now the Atlanta Hawks That'll be for Robert 12 out of 20 a few more to go We've got Clyde the glide Drexler and that is Rockets edition six out of 35 Houston Martin with the Rockets Two more to go We've got for the bulls a big confident autograph there Dennis Rodman the worm Taylor with Chicago 17 out of 35 the worm and the last one here's nice rookie patch auto lorry marketing. I Think maybe maybe getting back into the swing of things five out of ten Nice one for the bulls Taylor. All right last box coming up. Good luck everybody Who has 40 points for the Warriors tonight? Did he say Kelly Aubrey, Jr? Is it time for you to dust off your Kelly Aubrey, Jr. autographs ladies and gentlemen? Yeah, Kelly Aubrey, Jr. Has 40 points eight rebounds to assist a steal a block Plus 17 on the plus minus Pretty good No, however, not time to dust off Kelly Aubrey, Jr. Not not not yet. Not yet All right, what if he what if he scores what 30 points tomorrow dust off your Kelly Aubrey, Jr. All right. We got Josh Jackson up top right here base card Phoenix Suns 25 out of 79. I don't know what their next game is It's 14 from 21. He's got seven three pointers tonight. Yeah, that's not happening again At least not I mean if you go down a run this week dust off those Kelly Aubrey, Jr.'s What's their next game Warriors are playing? Oh, they're playing the Mavs again in a couple nights. That's right Endemic scheduling Yeah, Mavs struggling is not good for the hobby. I agree with you on that We go we got a how we got to have got to have Donjich in the playoffs That's what well, so that's what we want Luka Donjus has 27 points. He's trying to do everything Goren Dragich Miami Heat to 79 That will be for Miami Joe Joe Cameron with the Miami Heat Next one is Carl Anthony Towns a wild cat has appeared seven out of 25 James with the Timberwolves. We've got we love it Kevin Love for the Cavs Michael with the Cavaliers Cleveland. This is for you one out of 35 We got opulent scripts Forgot about Channing Frye on the Lakers I mean, I remember remember now 18 out of 25 on that one Lakers Joshua Wilson kind of hard to see right there, but it says 18 out of 25 right there We got three-color patch and autograph Kemba Walker Kemba skywalk should we make the hit thing or does does Kenny have have the I mean Kenny has a monopoly on that Kemba Charlotte Jeff click with the Charlotte Hornets We got artist Gilmore For the bulls that's gonna go to Taylor Is he rockin some sort of a puka shell necklace or something like that seven out of ten artist Gilmore bulls Taylor A few more to go in this break. We've got an on-card rookie autograph. Oh gee and a woby Nice to 79 Toronto Matt Lever Won a spot got randomized the Raptors got a nice rookie auto Yeah, I think there is a special squiffer for for dusty rookie cards like Kelly Obre juniors You got to get some special dusters to dust all those off. Usually they've been in a in a corner In the bottom under your bed the back of your drawer Old shoebox. We got Dylan Brooks rookie autograph for the Memphis Grizzlies. That's gonna go to Patrick And what's the final hit gonna be? two out of ten on that one and it's gonna be Carl Malone nice gold records Autograph Carl Malone the mailman Randy with the jazz Although he does not deliver on Sunday Carl Malone 8 out of 25 for Utah. Nice Gold records on it. This look like a cool like gold record on the background, right? Put my pants on one leg at a time But when my pants are on I make gold records. There you have it ladies and gentlemen Three box random team number one 2017-18 Panini opulence basketball in the books. That's a great break. Thanks for breaking with us. Thanks for watching It's worth another look at these these nice opulence cards, right? Thanks for breaking with us boys and girls. I appreciate that We've got more basketball on the side including a Mamba mixer Which is pretty cool nice Lori marketing an RPA Some gold pieces Harrison Barnes So go check that out on jazby's case break calm I love a lot of fun hoops that we can do a nice Steph Curry back there as well poor zingus Nick's had a nice first box So some pretty good stuff ladies and gentlemen, I'm Joe for jazby's case breaks calm. Thanks for watching I'll see you next time for the next one. Bye


But let me begin by thanking the organizers for inviting me and giving me the opportunity to pay tribute to Luke Izzini on the occasion of his 80th birthday. So I have to say Luke has been a guide throughout my career from the earliest days when he first guided me physically to the IHES to the most recent days going back to the very last few weeks when I'm trying to struggle with the certain problems I'm stuck on. He's been a consistent source of ideas both conceptual and technical. He's also provided enormous friendship to me and to my family. We've been able to discuss mathematics, music, literature, astronomy, and I realized that he applies this friendship not only to me but also to my students and effective mathematicians worldwide. A remarkable presence in mathematical community. So my goals for today are the following. I want to try to give a very explicit description of prismatic homology, of sleuth, scheming, characteristic, and also the category of prismatic distance. I'm following some ideas suggested to me by Bargo Fatt. I think it was in the fall of 2019. He told me at that time that I was very much like these explicit descriptions and he was correct and I waited eagerly for them to appear in the paper, the huge manuscript about prismatic homology to the hidden Schultz. But it did not appear there. And so I wrote to him practically and he said, well, in fact, those ideas never got worked up between me. It encouraged me to do so. And that's what I've been trying to do since then. I also want to try to relate this new prismatic theory to previous work, in particular the Christen homology, the convergent homology, worked up by Berlio and myself. To the theory of the Piata Cartier transform, again, me and Volodotsky, that was just a Mon-P version and also a Yama and then later a Piata version due to Ksu and Shiho, as well as others. I also want, if there's time, I'll discover two applications of this simpler work was that description, which gives simpler and more explicit description, proofs of some of the results in Barton Schultz's particular really direct relationship between prismatic and pristine homology, a relationship between prismatic homology and hutch-hake homology, the fact that prismatic or vanus action is an isogeny, and the relationship of the co-tension complex. So here I'll only get to discussing chrysaline prisms in a way this is too bad because I think the main value of the prismatic theory is that it gives a unified approach to many different kinds of Piata-Cogs theory. However, it is true that chrysaline prisms play an absolutely key and simple role in theory, in particular I think many of the proofs of the general cases reduced to the chrysaline case. So I think that's an justification for just concentrating on that, beside my own limited ability. I also have to note that this is work in progress, sub-technicalities have not been worked out completely, and I'm surely not going to describe any of the technical points that often cause me great difficulty. I want to thank Bargol Vot, both for his original suggestions and also for continuing conversations throughout the course of this work, also Martin Olson, Matthew Moro, and of course, Niki Newsy. I also want to thank Ahmed Abdesh in particular because he was the very first person, as far as I can remember, to alert me to this new theory and to his possible links to previous work. So let me begin by recalling what chrysaline prisms are. I'm only going to be discussing this first, but it's okay. Questions? Anything okay? No problem? A sound problem. What's the sound problem? People can hear anything. You can't hear anything I should say? It's okay for you, don't worry. What? It's not your fault. It's going to go ahead and depend on your own practice. So instead of using the language of delta schemes, I'm going to be using the equivalent language in the case of p-tortion-free schemes, which is all going to be in the case here. So I'll say a p-scheme is going to be a p-tortion-free, peatic-formal scheme endowed with an endomorphism is a restriction to the closed sub-scheme of p defined by p, that sub-scheme of definition, is the absolute provenance endomorphism. That's the absolute provenance endomorphism of p-1. That's what I mean by p-scheme. Always p-tortion free. Morphisms of such objects must be compatible with the provenance lifting. This is a very rigid and difficult restriction, which makes the whole theory much more complicated, but this is very important. Well, I don't completely understand exactly when this compatibility is really crucial when it isn't. So I will fix a base p-scheme s. It might be, for example, the spectrum of formal spectrum of the wit-ring of the perfect field. But we want to consider more general basing as well. So I'll begin with a spoon-s-1 scheme. This is scheming characteristic p, s-1, if you recall, the closed sub-scheme that's defined by p. And now I'm going to say what an x over s-prison is. It's simply a pair, t, comma z-t, where t is a free-scheme over s. That's the endomorphism of free-scheme from p to s. And z-t is a map from the closed sub-scheme that's defined by p, p-1, to x. And of course, it's morphisms to be an s-1 morphism. Okay, so we're going to consider the category of all x-prisons, endowed with a suitable topology. I'll say more about that perhaps later. Maybe it's risky topology, maybe it's natal topology, maybe it's some sort of flat topology. And I'll use this notation that the rest of delta is the topos of sheaves on this site. And this site is endowed with a sheet of rings, making it giving us a ring topos. If you have a full scheme here, just look at the global sections of the spectra field, and that defines a sheave on this site. Of course, if we use some exotic topology, we've got to check if this guy really is a sheave. And that's an issue which is partially addressed in the picture by Barton Schulte. There's another sheet of rings on this thing, which you get by simply reducing module OP. That's the sheet of rings, which takes a full scheme p to the global sections of the structure of its spine. That's a productive module of p. Okay. And the prismatic topology of x over s is by definition simply the structure of the cosmology of the structure sheave on this topos. One can work locally on x either using the etal is risky topology. There's a morphism, which I call here vis of x over s that's sort of distinguished from use of x over s by Bertelow. In this case, it's a map from the prismatic topos via topos. And it's quite straightforward to construct this thing just by localizing everything in the etal topos of x. And then of course, you get the fact that you can calculate prismatic topology of x by taking the drive push forward the structure sheave by means of the morphism v and looking at the topology of that on the topos. It's probably working mostly with this thing on the drive category. And now here, let me try to explain the so-called explicit formulas, which describe this prismatic topology. So let's suppose we're given a fee scheme y over s, which is a smooth lifting of x over s one. So it's a fee scheme. So we have lifted probes as well. In that case, there are canonical isomorphisms from this prismatic topology, this derived object here, and the p-deron complex of y over s. So that means I just take the ordinary deron complex. Of course, I'm using the periodically completed differentials here, and I multiply the differential by p. You know, you're very striking. And if you reduce modular p, what you get is the same complex with this modular p. This guy has no differential at all because the differential had been multiplied by p. So this homolog is just the direct sum of the hodge groups or the scalar differentials. Are you assuming it's smooth or what are the assumptions on when you do the differentials? Is there any smoothness assumption or? Yes, yes, everything. Yeah, it's smooth and why the lifting? Yes. Okay. So yeah, these isomorphisms depend on y, the lifting, and they also depend on the lifting of Albanias. And I haven't really found a really nice way of expressing how this dependence works. So that's something perhaps someone else can help me with at some point. And now a description of prismatic crystals. I claim there's a natural influence of categories between some sort of quasi coherent condition. I'm not going to make explicit here. It's important though, quasi coherent crystals of OX over S modules on this prismatic topo on this prismatic site. And quasi coherent Y modules endow with an integral and quasi nilpotent p connection. Okay, so what's a p connection? You can probably imagine that it's a map novel from E into omega one tensor E satisfying the following twisted legend rule. You have a section E of capital E and a section A of O or Y, the novel of A times E is A times novel E plus P times V A tensor E. There's a P there, that's what I'm thinking, connection. Quasi nilpotent means that if you reduce module O P, well what you get then it's a linear map, it's really a Higgs field as a matter of fact. And Higgs field should be locally nilpotent. Okay, so these are very striking, but in practice you can't really use these results globally because in practice you can't really expect to find the lifting of this game together with the probanias globally. That's quite rare. So one wants to generalize these results in some way that it is more globally useful. So let's assume only that X is embedded as a closed sub scheme of Y over S. For example, if X is quasi projected, you can put it in projective space and that has a nice global lifting with its probanias. What did you mean before by integrity already raised in this slide, but what is integrity? I think you said this way for a P connection. Yeah, there's a natural way to extend NABLA to a map of E into E tends to only go 1, then E tends to only go 1 to omega 2. It's the usual thing. It's the usual thing, yeah. Okay, so then one can form the prismatic envelope of X and Y, it's sort of too good a neighborhood. I'll try to explain more about that later. You can imagine that it might exist. Then this guy has a structure key which you're going to view as an OY module and turns out that structure key has, you know, as an OY module, a canonical integral and quasi integral P connection. And you can take the P interarm complex of that guy. I have to sort of imagine how to construct that. And it turns out the P interarm complex of that guy, I write D prime there because it's not D. It's a P connection, not a connection. And so the drum complex of that guy, repeat drum complex of that guy, calculate again the prismatic homology of X. And there's an analog of this for crystals of OY modules, OY suggest modules, which I won't make explicit. Yeah. Okay, so those are the main comparison terms I want to describe, but I also want to take some time to describe some antecedents here. Yeah. So let's say I've got, okay. So first of all, just for general remembrances here, we're going to do things past. There was very first thing I learned about this kind of theory was theory of thickenings, work of hearts on and other people on algebraic drum homology characters to zero, which one studied a millimersions. So we have a scheme X that we have a millimersion and T1 to T and a map from T1 to X. In those days, T1 was equal to X or maybe an open subscript set of X, but I'm going to be forced to work with a bigger sort of topos, a bigger site, and so we have a more general morphos in T1 to X. Later, of course, came the crystalline version of this in which instead of just taking an arbitrary millimersion, we take a PD immersion. However, to make things work in my context, we're going to take T always to be pre-tortion free. And again, T1 to X would be some sort of map. Okay, that's sort of ancient history in many ways. More recent is the theory of periodic enlargements of X. So here, T is a pre-tortion free periodic formal scheme. And we have a map from T1, again, the closed sub-scheme would be defined by P, X, morphism over S1. And this occurred a long time ago in work, really, of my own in Beralos as a sort of very first step. We didn't do much with this. It doesn't get too very far. And here, the difference between this and what comes up in the prismatic theory is there's here no Frobenius left. Otherwise, it's exactly the same. And this was also considered later by Ollama and also Tsuji. And Ollama also, if you're studying the Cartier transform, gave a version of a tweak of this, which I call here P gamma attic enlargements of X over S. Again, we have T a pre-tortion free periodic formal scheme. And now instead of a mapping from T1 to X, you have a mapping from the scheme theoretic image of Frobenius and morphism of T1 to X. So FT1 of T1, that's the scheme theoretic image of Frobenius. And so we got a mapping just from that closed sub-scheme of T1 to X. That's what's given the data. Okay. So Ollama studied the sites that you get using those two things. And he described how to work out how to view the Cartier transform with P using those two sites.  Again, this is a P-tortion free periodic formal scheme. And now I'm mapping from the reduced sub-scheme of T1 to X. And let me just note here by way of passing, this guy is contained in the Frobenius image of T1 and that's contained in T1. So that's one way to relate all these different kinds of theories. Okay. So each one of these theories has two of the neighborhoods attached to it. And I always thought of these theories as really depending on these two of the neighborhoods. You have some scheme X, which is hard to understand maybe because it's singular. And what you're trying to do is embed it in something smooth, Y, which is nicer topologically and or analytically. And then you look at the two of the neighborhood of X and Y and that two neighborhood should reflect the topology of X you're trying to calculate. So, for example, in character zero, if you have a formal scheme Y and X contained in Y1, then you, well, more generally actually. So TX, Y will be the universal whatever it is that we're looking for mapping to Y. So in each one of these theories, you have a corresponding two neighborhood. So for example, for mill inversions, we've got the formal conclusion. That's not really a mill version. It's just a pro-object. It's okay. In the case of PDE immersions, we have the PDE envelope of X and Y. I'll be taking the P portion free version, which is sometimes easier. It's not as hard to work with. For the pediatric enlargements, universal pediatric enlargement is called the pediatric dilatation. I think I first learned that terminology from Sue's work. And there's also the P gamma articulation, which I won't be discussing much here today. The pediatric dilatation will play a big role later on. And then there's for general enlargements, there's the tube, which is a really a formal, a pediatric analytic space. And finally, of course, the most important to us today is the prismatic envelope. Each one of these theories leads to a different homology theory. And each one of these theories, each one of these kinds of people in these countries give rise to a sort of groupoid. So given a smooth Y over S, let's slide them on here. Yeah. I can look at the tube of the neighborhood of diagonal of Y. So look at the diagonal of Y cross S with Y. Maybe I want to hit the closed sub-scheme of Y defined by P in order to make things really consistent. Turns out by functoriality in each of these cases, this groupoid acts an envelope. So if X is contained in Y1, you get the tube of the neighborhood of X and Y, and this groupoid acts, I like to write it on the right, on this tube of your neighborhood. And corresponding to these group oids, we get rings of differential operators defined roughly as follows. You look at the structure sheet of this groupoid, which I'm denoting by OT1 by 1. You look at a suitable topological comb, some sort of, depending on the context, some sort of pseudo-hom there. And that linear dual, the groupoid structure of this groupoid gives me a hop-out of a structure on O. It gives you a ring structure on this corresponding dual, which gives me a ring of differential operators. Each one of these things own a different kind of ring of differential operators. So for example, if I work with formal schemes, I get the ring of all differential operators. There are a whole lot of those. But I work with the PD envelope because they're usually called hyper-PD differential operators. These are the operator, this ring is generated topologically by the derivations, which makes it much more connected directly to calculus in a way that we're used to. If I work with the Pianic enlargement theory, which I thought you would call capital D there, the voltage D, I don't have a very good description of what that ring of differential operators is. However, if you reduce the modular P, then it's not difficult to see what it is. It's sort of generated by the derivations, that is the sheet of tangent vectors. But instead of taking just the symmetric algebra on that, you better take the divider power algebra on that. And I have a completion there because it's the hybrid. So if I take this D gamma business, then what you get is the ring of differential operators. Again, I only know how to do this modular P. Take the ring of ordinary differential operators, but you recall that as a big center. The center that was generated by the derivations that's using the theory of peak curvature. And if you extend that to having divided powers on the peak curvature, you get this ring of differential operators. And so just roughly speaking, the first guy corresponds to sort of divided power Higgs field. The second guy corresponds to divided power or rather divided power extended differential logical connection. And that's how the theory of the criteria transfer worked out in this context. Okay, so now I want to turn to the prismatic case. And here, a miracle occurs. In this case, the corresponding ring of differential operators is in fact generated topologically by the P derivations. And that's why this whole theory is connected to a P connection. And more precisely, fuzzy milk load interval P connection. This is really quite a miracle. And I guess somehow just the action that's pervading us on T makes this happen in some way. And in particular, if you reduce the module of P, you just get the completion of the symmetric algebra of the derivations. And this just corresponds to fuzzy milk load and Higgs fields. So that's really quite satisfactory. Now, let me now turn to the F-transform. I'm going to look a little bit more detail at this theory. This was, I call it the F-transform is the given different names in the literature. This is used by Faltings, by me and Volodotsky, by Oyama, by Tsu, and especially by Shiho. And Shiho is trying to give an explicit description of a lifting, a periodic lifting, of what I call the local inverse criteria transform about even I worked out. Let me ask you just a small question to clarify, is when you said quasi-nilpotent, are those things which locally are increasing the unions of things which are 7 degree of nilpotency? Yes. But then when you said that this structure shift of what you didn't describe it completely of delta, x, y, is integral by quasi-nilpotent, this looks strange because you would think about those sickening as an inverse limit. And so it's, but here if it is a quasi-nilpotent means it kind of a direct limit. So I mean, I don't, but maybe you can write out. No, you reduce module of P and then it's okay. You reduce module of P and then look, yeah. It's a combination of periodically and yeah. So quasi-nilpotent means module of P, the thing is nilpotent. Okay. So it's, yeah. Okay. So let me try to describe this F transform. It's really in some ways very simple and very, very suggested. So again, I'm going to start with a smooth piece, the y over s. And then I have a relative Frobenius map of y to y prime. Y prime is the pullback of y with respect to the Frobenius of s. Okay. And then there's a funk there from the category of modules with quasi-nilpotent P connection on my prime to the category of quasi-nilpotent ordinary connections on y. And it's very simple to describe this spunker. So if I start with a module with connection P connection, E prime, novel prime, what is the F transform of that? But first of all, you just take, as the module, just take the relative Frobenius pullback, just F or start of E prime. Now I have to tell you what the connection is. So suppose I have a local section E prime of E prime. Then I can pull it back to get a section of E. E is the Frobenius inverse pullback of E prime. And novel of F thing, you get by simply taking novel prime of E prime, which is in omega one of y prime tensor E prime, and then apply Frobenius, relative Frobenius on omega one y prime of s. That's divisible by P. So just divide by P. And then you get something in omega one of y over s tensor E. And because the original connection was not a P, it was not a connection, but a P connection, and because you divide by P here, this turned out to be a connection. And you've got to check that the quasi-nilpotent corresponds to the quasi-nilpotent. That's not so obvious, but it works. And here's the theorem of Shiho. This spunker, which is quite easy to describe, is actually an equivalence of categories. The spunker in the other direction is much more difficult to describe, and Shiho's proof is really not so trivial. You can sort of understand that we will better using prismatic theory, makes everything a little bit more conceptual, but Shiho worked it up before that. And let me just note right away, there's a really striking consequence of Shiho's theorem, which shows that relative Christian homology descends by Frobenius. So I suppose I've got some smooth scheme Z over Y, or Z over Y, Z1 or Y1 even. It's got a Christian homology, going to give you a module with interval connection on Y. And automatically, just from that data, just from those data, we get something on Y prime. So Christian homology automatically descends by Frobenius. That was one of the outputs of the prismatic theory, but here it is, going way back to Shiho's theory. Okay, what's next? I want to make a few more remarks here. If you'd like to hear something. Be quiet, Shiho. Okay, so let's start with a module of P connection, E prime, novel prime, and let E novel be its F transform. Let's compare this to the pullback of E prime, novel prime as a P connection. That's a different thing, E double prime, novel double prime. Well, it turns out that E double prime, E double prime, novel double prime is obtained from all you have to do is multiply the connection by P and that gives you a P connection. That's no surprise for your difference in the formula. However, if there are any L-ata fans still in the audience, you have the following, I think, nice result, which shows that if you take the L-ata functor, which I'm not going to remind you of the definition of, it's not too important here, just for old fans, I'd say, take the L-ata functor, apply it to the Duran, the P Duran complex of E double prime, that gives you the Duran complex of E. Okay, and that's related to following you. Yeah? Question? Can you? No. Okay. So here, this is related to the following result, which almost, but not quite appears in Shiho. Suppose you start with a module which has bounded P torsion. There's a natural map in the P Duran complex of that guy, the Duran complex that was F transform, that map is actually quasi-Azimuthazine. So, let's see, do I have time to give the proof? Not really, so let me just give the proof. It's the reduce of the Carti-Azimuthazine. So, quite simple. Another result that's easy to see from this point of view is the following. Suppose I start with a module with connection, multiply the differential by D. The question? Do you have a problem? Can I go ahead? Do you have a problem? Hello? Okay, so if you multiply the differential by D, you get a module P connection. There's a map from one guy to the other, just take multiplication by P d i and degree i. This is a map of complexes. It's clearly a misogyny because, yep, I'm not back in the other direction, but multiplying by P to the m minus i and degree i, m is the dimension of y, so a misogyny that way. And that gives you a clear understanding of why the mapping from the P Duran complex of my originally prime to the P Duran complex of its pullback as a P connection is an misogyny because the guy on the left is quasi-azimorphic to the Duran complex of its pervanous transform. And we've just seen that guy is quasi-azimorphic to its multiplication by P. And that guy is the Duran complex, the P Duran complex of its pervanous pullback of the P connection. And this, yeah, okay, so this has applications through prismatic homology. Now, here's an example of, a generic example of how this f-transform works. So let's suppose I've got a closed subspeed x of y1. Again, y1, y1 is remember this smooth peace game over s. Then you can take the prismatic envelope of x prime and y prime, which has a canonical P connection, take its f-transform, which is going to be a module over y with ordinary connection. And that turns out to be the structure T of the P D envelope of x and y. This is actually an amplification of the resultant bot in Schultze, which is a very key resultant in their paper, because they prove really that if you take the pervanous pullback of the prismatic envelope, what you get is the P D envelope. And this enhances that result by talking about the connections, more precisely the P connection on one and the connection on the other. They correspond to each other too. Okay. Okay, so that's the end of what I want to say about antecedents. Now I'm going to talk about geometry of these schemes. So when I started to think about prismatic homology and prismatic compos, my main thing was to understand the role of this pervanous and the morphism, because I'd considered these pediatric enlargements before with no pervanism in the morphism. So what does this add to us? That's what I really wanted to understand, and I really wanted to get my hands dirty. And I did a lot of work on this, and here's one result which turned out to be really, really important and in a way surprising. So I recall I've been talking about a smooth P scheme while we're at it. And by that I just meant a formal scheme, which is formally smooth as a scheme. I don't have any condition about pervanous there. So what is going on? What is the role of pervanous there? In particular, a key fact about smooth morphism is the characterization of smoothness. Well, interest has a lifting property. And what happens if you put the fee into the into the soup in that case? All right, so suppose I've got another fee scheme, t over s and a morphism from t1 to y over s. What I want to know is, is there locally at least a lift of that morphism from t1 to y as a morphism from t to y, which is a morphism of fees schemes that is it, which is compatible with the pervanous lift. So what is geometry there? Well, the first surprising result is that such a lifting is unique if it exists, at least if t1 is reduced. This is kind of upsetting, as well as surprising, because you don't expect it to exist globally. There's a local unique scheme, then it's not going to work. And in fact, locally, if you work locally, there's risky pathology or the ethyl pathology, there are obstructions to this lifting. However, these obstructions can be killed by taking peace routes of things. And here's what you can actually end up proving. In the category of fees schemes, such a lifting is in fact possible after what's called a p completely flat, basically flat extension, t tilde of t. So the p completely flat morphism of fees schemes from t tilde to t, and after that, you can't actually find a lifting of the original morphism from t1 to t, which is compatible from t1 to y, which is compatible with the range lifting. Okay, so this, I found this, I was completely stuck. My original strategy to prove bus formula completely broke down after a while. And I was completely stuck until I found a very special case of this result in a paper by Matthew Moro and Suji, and I was able to generalize it to this result. And that was actually key in the rest of my work. The key fact here to spoke to this extension is the fact that t, the forbanus on morphism in fees schemes is surjected to the p completely flat, flat topology. Right, time to say what the, yeah. Okay, Karlie, what's the Karlie? Oh, yeah, important Karlie here in the prismatic theory is the fact that if x is closed in y1, and if you take, again, y over sd is formally smooth, then the prismatic envelope of x and y covers the final object of the prismatic copos, if you work with a p completely flat topology. Otherwise, if you work with a topology, coverings of the final object are very much more complicated. So this is a really big improvement in my work. P complete flat, flatness is something that I struggled with also. There's a theory of i complete flatness in general for, I guess, I don't know, I'm not sure exactly the origin what's explained in papers by Barton Schultz. Fortunately, if we're working in a case in which i is just p, things are much simpler. If you have a p torsion three, not necessarily if they're in ring and m is a p, I think it's separated our module, the following things are equivalent.  Secondly, the same is true module every power of p. And third, these tors all vanished. So basically what this means is when you want to work with p completely flat guys, what you're really doing is working module every power of p. In fact, this is the approach taken by Grinfield in his manuscript on stack versus system from logic. And once you're really thinking about working either with p had to complete things or with systems, suitable systems of modules module every power of p. Okay, so the next thing I had to study pretty carefully was prismatic neighborhoods. And I really want to understand, get my hands dirty and really understand what prismatic neighbors will look like in this special case of prism and prisms. So suppose I've got again a p scheme y close substitute x of y one. And as before delta x y is the universal ex prism mapping for y. And the key fact is the following that if you take, remember, by definition, I've got a mapping from the reduction of this thing module p to x. And the key fact is the fact that this map is affine and faithfully flat provided x is regularly immersed in y one, which will be the case for us. Okay. Now I wanted to really understand what this looked like and constructed by bare hands, rather than using universal properties of the theory of delta rings. And so in order to get my hands on this, I found the following generalization. Instead of starting with a fee scheme, you start with a scheme y and that was an amorphism. It doesn't have to be for various module. Okay. It's enough to be for various when restricted to x. And once you have that, that's enough to create this prismatic neighborhood. It still exists. There was a prism mapping to this guy. This is a nice generalization has applications. But the main reason I do this would support in the way I constructed the prismatic neighborhood. So how did I do it? Well, the first step clearly is going to be to take the periodic dilutation of x and y because the prismatic neighbor is going to map to the periodic dilutation just because you've got a mapping from that guy to the inverse image of x and the prismatic envelope is the thing in p. So in fact, the construction is carried out, at least the way I carried out, the infinite sequence of periodic dilutions. So if dxy is the universal periodic enlargement of x nothing to y, that's what the periodic dilutation is. Let's get a better idea what that really is like. Disappeared in some old papers of mine and also worked out more carefully completely by two. All you do is you take the affine piece of the block of x and y defined by the element p in the ideal of x and y. So you sort of join the ratios of element, all the elements in i divided by p and then you can kill the p torsion. In general, this thing could be empty, but it's okay if x is nicely behaving y. So here's a simple example. Suppose x is defined in y by p and x, the single element of p. Then this dilutation is obtained by taking the formal spectrum of the dilution of the p torsion p quotient of b adjoin t modulo pt minus x. Just adjoin x divided by p, but you have to kill the p torsion. And that p torsion can be hard to understand and consequently kill it and then reduce modulo p or take the p out of the equation to be empty. That's not good. However, you want to check that if px is a b regular sequence, this quotient that I've got up there already p quotient three. And that means when you reduce modulo p, it's faithfully flat over x. So that's good. Now how does the construction of the cosmetic envelope actually work? Well, the first thing you do is you let y prime be this periodic dilutation of x and y. And it turns out that the this anamorphism of y that you started with acts naturally by punctoriality really on this periodic dilutation. Gives you a new anamorphism of this guy. Now it's not even if the original fee was it was a lifting of pervades this guy might not do. That's the that's the key fact. So it turns out there's a natural thing you can do. I won't like the equation. You can just find it if you just do a straightforward calculation. There's a closed set of px prime of y prime one. Just look at it, which is the obvious obstruction to this guy being a lifting of pervades. And so you take the panic dilutation of that. And you do this thing over and over again. And then you take some sort of limit. And what you check is that the original x and y one was a regular immersion, then this x prime you get in y prime one is again a regular immersion. So it's a whole lot of pediatric dilutations along regularly immersed sub schemes. Each one of these is faithfully flat over x. And so you're in good shape. Here's a concrete example before the explicit. So suppose x is just a point and suppose y is the f online. Yes. Yes. So the flatness assertion that you made. Yes. So the project assertion that you can take a period dilutation of a regular scheme x and y one. And the period dilutation maps down to x is reduced module p. That matters faithfully flat. And this implies the flatness for the charismatic envelope. Yes. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. What you said something about the universal prism is flat over something that they didn't catch it. Exactly. Yeah, the universal if you take the universal prism reduce module p to map that down to x, that matters flat. But the map from the prison to y is not flat. And the rich condition. Okay. Okay, here's a specific example. So suppose p of x is given by x to the p plus p times delta x. Here is the formula for the universal prism, the prismatic envelope of x and y. We take the original w of x and join a whole lot of variables t1, t2, t3, and so on. Module a certain relation and then take the period completion. And here are the relations. p t1 is equal to x, that's the same thing we saw before in the first step of the period dilutation. The next after that is exactly defined by the following formulas. p times pj plus one is delted to the j of x minus pj to the p. So you have to keep dividing making more and more things divisible by p in order to make the nomorphism of this guy actually equal to lifting it for banias. And these are exactly what you have to adjoin. As a special case, suppose delta is zero. Then what you get, if you see it from this calculation or from direct calculation using other techniques, what you get is the prism is simply the pd envelope of t, t being just x over p. So that's a relationship between prismatic envelopes and pd envelopes. Let me restate that more generally and more geometrically. Suppose I've got, again, x in y1 and let's suppose x admits a v-invariant lifting x tilde. This is not always the case, but sometimes even locally it might not exist. But let's suppose we happen to have something x tilde. Okay, so this is a p-section 3 lifting of x1. So because it's p-section 3 and lifts x1, it defines a map into the periodic notation of x and y, just by the universal property of periodic rotation. So it's a section of dx over y over y, x tilde. And it turns out the prismatic envelope of x and y is the divided power envelope of this section of the periodic notation of x and y. It's a very simple description. And here's a very important application of that. You remember we had this prismatic group void. If we start with the smooth y over s, we have the prismatic group void obtained by taking the prismatic envelope of y1 embedded in y cross y via diagonal. But that y1 has a v-invariant lifting, namely y itself embedded in the diagonal. And so what you see is this prismatic group void can be viewed as the divided power envelope of this section of the periodic dilution of the diagonal of y. And that gives you the following description of prismatic differential operators, namely that they are, as I said before, generated by the p-derivations instead of the derivations. And the p-derivations because they're taking the periodic dilution. After that, it's the p-neval of that section. So that's why you get the prismatic differential operators being generated by p-derivations. And this also leads to what I call the prismatic Poincare lemma. So let me explain this. So let's suppose I've got a morphism of smooth phi scheme over s, y to z. And a close immersion of x and y with a property that if I take the composition of this close immersion of x and y with this not g, it's again a close immersion of x and z. Then I want to be able to compare the prismatic envelope of x and y and the prismatic envelope of x and z. If there's a good homology theory, these guys should give the same homology. And that's what the Poincare lemma said. Well, precisely, you have the corresponding mapping of prismatic envelopes and p-derom complexes. You get a mapping reduced by g from the p-derom couplet of the prismatic envelope of x and z corresponding to the thing of x and y. That's a strict quasi-artism morphism. I view these guys as living on x, by the way, via the natural map down to x. Okay. So that's prismatic Poincare lemma, which is sort of an analog, if you like, of prismatic Poincare lemma. There are several ways to prove this. One way is if you use the f-hence form, you can prove this. After pulling back via s, you can reduce everything as we saw before. You can change prismatic envelopes to p-derom envelopes. That's sort of the technique followed in some sense in botanical theory. And then you can use the prismatic Poincare lemma. That works. You can go back to the original s if your Frobenius on s is faithfully flat, which will be the case in many cases. But I wanted to give a direct proof anyway. And so let's see if we can see how that works by doing the local calculation. So here, x is, again, a point. y is also a point that's now periodically thickened. And z is the affine line. And I embed y and z in the obvious way. And phi of x is just x to the p. And then prismatic envelope, well, this is the dilatation of x and z, just given by taking joint t. And then t is x over p, essentially. And the prismatic envelope of x and z is obtained by taking the p-d envelope instead. So at w, w, t. And what about the p connection? Well, d prime to t, I could have written all but find the t. I'm writing d prime here. d prime to t is, well, it's p times dt. And it's d times pt. So dx. So d prime to t is dx. So that's really what we want because now we've gotten something with differential in x, which is what we need in order to get a Panko-Rey lemma. But now we've got divided powers there as well. So d prime to t divided power n is t to the n minus 1 dx. And you see the Panko-Rey lemma really works. We get a quasi-idomorphism between the ground complex of prismatic envelope with x and z and prismatic envelope with x and y. That's your w on the right. So there's the quasi-idomorphism. Now, this is just the case of a point, but in my experience, a suitable generalized point is enough. And so how do you make this work? So for particular, my map g from y is smooth and admits a section, then we can make this argument sort of work. So, and here's the key fact, we allowed to work p completely faithfully flat locally on the base. And that means we can assume my smooth morphism in fact has a section because of the fact you recall at the start of the beginning, a smooth morphism of these themes satisfies you if it has a lifting property, if you work p completely faithfully flat locally. Okay. And now you can reduce the case of a smooth morphism by considering the graph of g. And that gives you the general result. And let me just mention that once you have this result about different paedic, this general form of the prismatic Panko-Rey lemma, you can use it to simply prove that taking the p-derom complex associated to a prismatic envelope gives you a well-defined functorial cosmology theory without actually constructing a topos. However, of course, it is nice to construct the topos. And let me just say a few words about how I actually went about proving the prismatic cosmology comparison to you. So again, we've got this prismatic groupoid. I'm just going to go over this very rapidly because I ended up just following by my nose the method that Berlow and I wrote up in our book on prismatic cosmology. So we have this prismatic groupoid. Actually, this groupoid corresponds exactly to a prismatic stratification as you can imagine what that is. And that corresponds also to an action of prismatic differential operators. And we've seen that corresponds really to a plausible plot of internal P connection. And as I said before, this prismatic groupoid acts on prismatic envelopes. And now I just preceded it as in Berlow and August. We have the linearization of prismatic differential operators functor, which takes OI modules, the prismatic OX modules on the prismatic topos in this obvious way.  And one checks again that this, if you take the linearization of an OI module, the crystal you get is acyclic for the push forward bunker. And you apply this to the Drone complex of Y and it gives you a resolution, in fact, of the structure C of the prismatic topos. And it should push it forward. That defective resolution follows from this boundary limit described. And consequently, you take the push forward of this linearization of the Drone complex, you get, well, you calculate this calculates just the Drone complex of the prismatic envelope. And that, that gives you the theorem. And of course, the same thing works in Cook, you're doing crystal just about as well. Okay, this will be a little bit of time for a few applications. I'll go over them pretty, pretty rapidly. First of all, the Hodge-Tate comparison theorem. This is very simple to see now. So this is the same as the following way in the paper by Bobby Schultz for more general prisms, but they reduce the more general case to the case of crystalline prisms. And the crystal prisms, this explicit description we have makes it very simple to prove the result. Here is the statement. The statement is that the canonical isomorphism of different graded algebras. First of all, you take the sheath, the ordinary sheath of differentials, the simply Drone complex of X over S, the underlying means of the sheath, with its usual differential D, its Dirich differential. On the right-hand side, you take the direct sum of the cosmologies of O bar, X over S, and now that guy with a box-side operator coming from the fact this is the responsible P of O, X over S, along with O, X over S. And there's a natural map from the left side to the right side just by universal property of Kali differentials. One, they construct that. And the question is, how does one show this map is actually an isomorphism? That's a local condition. And so to prove this isomorphism, we can assume that locally X admits a lift together with its remaining isomorphism. Now, let's add these to the box-side differential. Okay, I said all that already. And oh, I'm sorry. So, and now, what's the right-hand side? The right-hand side, you recall, was given by omega with P times D, but now for this module of P, and the differential there is just zero. So the right-side hand side, as I said before, that just gives me the direct sum of the Kali differentials on the right-hand side. So it's obviously an isomorphism. I don't have a good analog of this for crystals. One can make a map, a coefficient of crystal map on individual homologies, but I don't have a box on different from the right-hand case. Okay, in relation to crystalline homology, we've already seen this from the F-transform. Let me state it, though. There's a canonical isomorphism between the pullback by probanias on S of the prismatocomology of S-organisms S and the prismomology of S. And this follows quite easily from the theory of the F-transform, as I said before. So I'm not going to say more about that. The fact that probanias is an isogyny, again, that follows from the theory of the F-transform. I explained that also in fact that probanias on prismatocomology is an isogyny that also both in the S-transform on the level of complexes that I explained before. And now I want to explain in relation to the cotangent complex, I find it's extremely striking that the prismatocomology is so directly related to the cotangent complex. And this, of course, ties into the work that we do in the Museum. So here's the statement. There's a canonical isomorphism between the cotangent complex on the left. Again, I've got, remember, I've got X over S1. S1 is the close subspeed of S defined by P. So this cotangent complex is not smooth over it. So the cotangent complex lives in degrees minus 1 and 0. And so this cotangent complex is obtained by taking the truncation in degrees less than or equal to 0 of the prismatocomology of X over S of the reduced structure of OX modules shifted by 1. So how does this come about? So this statement occurs in Bonchaltzi or appears in literature in other places as well. The only proofs I could find were made explicitly in the case in which X is alpha. And I suppose if you're good at superficial techniques better than I am, that's enough to make the statement in a more global case come out. But I wanted a more explicit formula on the level of complexes using an explicit formula for the right-hand side there. And to do that, one can also find the explicit formula from the left-hand side if you're given an embedding of X and Y, where Y is now smooth over S. In that case, one has a very nice explicit formula for the cotangent complex. You get it as follows. Take the Diron complex of Y, you get a map from D from OY into omega 1 of Y, restrict that map to the ideal sheet of X and Y, that's a map from I into omega 1 of Y, tensor that map with OX. Not obvious that it makes sense to tensor because D is not linear, but it does. And the resulting map actually is a linear map. It's the map from I mod I squared if omega 1 or Y tends to OX. And remember, if X were smooth, the quotient would be only the one of X. But anyway, that's what it is. And that turns out to be that complex of OX modules is the cotangent complex in a nice factorial way. Okay, so on the other hand, if I take the prismatic homology of X, how do I do that? Well, you take the prismatic envelope of X and Y, that's O delta XY, reduce the module OP, that's got a P connection. The P connection now is just a Higgs field. So it's a linear map from O bar into omega 1, tensor O bar, linear map. And we've got the whole Diron complex of that. And I'm supposed to truncate it. I'll do that later. That complex gives me the prismatic homology of O bar. And now I've got to map one complex to the other. Okay, there's the cotangent complex. There's the prismatic homology complex. I've got to find maps. Okay, so the map on the right of omega 1 into omega 1, tensor O bar, that's kind of obvious. I've got a map after all from delta XY, reduce module OP into X. Yes? You have two or three minutes? Okay. Yes, I'm almost finished. Yes. Yeah, that map is clear. What about the map on the left? Well, you recall that I've got a mapping from delta XY into Y, and the inverse image of X in delta XY is P times Y1. It is P times delta XY. That means everything in the ideal of X and Y gets divisible by P in O delta XY. And if I, but O delta XY is P plus 3, so I can divide by P. That gives me a mapping from I into O. And I reduce that module OP, I get a mapping on the left there. Okay, so the mapping on the left is essentially pullback divided by P. The top arrow is reduced by D. The bottom arrow is reduced by P times D, but the left arrow has a P inverse in it. So the diagram commutes. So that's the mapping on the level of complexes. And to check that it's an isomorphism, quasi-isomorphism, I can work locally. And that means I can replace Y by simply a lifting of X, in which case the map becomes simply the identity. So it's clearly an isomorphism. Okay, this is a very good place to stop. I've already described these things. This is a good place to stop because in fact, I was only able to find this construction thanks to Ylouzi who generously shared with me just a very few weeks ago, some notes he gave on the prismatic version of the theory of Delene Ylouzi. So thanks again to Luke. Let's thank the speaker.


We have a virtual network of three Linux nodes Node 1 and node 2 on the same subnet, node 2 and 3 on a separate subnet so node 2 is the router in our internet and we're going to look at the operation of a simple TCP connection between node 1 and node 3 and we want to look at how that connection is set up, how the data is transferred and the connection is closed. And to do that we're going to use a client server application on 1 and 3 and we'll use netcat NC is the command for short We've seen it in a previous example using netcat in UDP mode. Now we use it in TCP mode TCP is the transport protocol So what we do is we start the netcat server on node 3 and We use NC short for netcat and as a server with netcat We use minus L option to tell it to act as a server and listen on a particular port number And we can choose a port number. I will choose one two three four six. We use one two three four five in UDP We could use the same Generally it needs to be one larger than one thousand and twenty four and less than about sixty five thousand there are some exceptions if the port numbs already in use but this will start netcat as a server and It automatically starts or by default starts in TCP mode So this will start in TCP mode if we want UDP mode We add the minus U option that we want TCP so we don't need any other options We start the netcat server Now we're going to capture the communications between client and server. So let's start capturing now on the router using TCP dump We want to capture on interface ETH one We don't want to convert IP addresses to domain names and we want to write to a file Let's call it nctcp1.pcap and The password is network. So now we're recording everything that goes through node two So now we'll start the client on node one and That should connect to the server on node three and The packets involved in that connection setup should be captured and then we'll exchange the data To start the client on node one we use netcap and client mode We specify the address of the server <IP_ADDRESS> is node three and The port number used by the server the one we chose on node three We connect and now what we type can be sent So hello node three Let's just see As we type on the client the text is sent to node three and displayed Here is my my new secret If I can spell We're trying to send a secret across the network across the internet from node one to node three We don't want anyone else to see that secret And then we say goodbye So there was some data exchange between node one and node three and And we can close the connection and what we'll do on node one is I'll press control D Control D Gracefully closes that connection and you see that the server automatically closed as well Notice when we use UDP mode we had to separately close the server and client But with TCP because TCP creates its own connection if we close one endpoint It'll automatically close another endpoint. Let's Stop our capture control C to stop our capture on node two. They were 18 packets captured. We have our Capture file on node two. So what we want to do is use filezilla to copy that to my windows host And then we'll look at it in Y-Shark I'll connect to node two download the capture file and Now I'll open that capture file in Y-Shark Here we see the captured packets There are 18 packets note that a few of them are ARP packets Let's just focus on the TCP packets So let's filter out and show just the TCP packets I'll type as a filter TCP And let's have a brief run-through of those remaining 14 TCP packets and see the basics of how TCP works Remember what we did is we sent really four separate messages from client to server I typed in four lines and we'll see in a moment that that correspond to four messages being sent TCP unlike UDP Creates a connection Before we transfer any data So we look at the very first packet sent from node one to node three client to server There's many details about the TCP segment But let's just focus on these Values in the square brackets because they summarize the meaning of this TCP segment in TCP header, there's a series of flags and with one of those flags is set then the meaning Or then then that segment has a particular meaning or purpose And Really we refer to it as some name segment so In this first TCP segment the sin flag is set really we think of this segment as a sin segment Sin or syn is short for synchronize The idea in TCP is that before we transfer data we set up a connection and One aspect of setting up that connection is synchronizing some sequence numbers. We're going to use in the data transfer So this very first segment we see is the let's is the client saying to server Let's synchronize our sequence numbers to set up a connection We'll look at the details of the segment in a moment, but let's just go through the next few frame number two is a TCP segment from Server back to client so it's a response and note the sin flag is set So it's also a sin segment. It's the server saying to the client. Yes Let's or it's saying let's synchronize the sequence numbers in this direction of communications We'll see shortly When we set up a TCP connection, we can send data in both directions client to server server to client So we actually use independent sequence numbers for each direction So the second frame is the server telling the client. Let's synchronize sequence numbers Really it proposes an initial sequence number, but we also see that this Second TCP segment has a second purpose. It's an act or an acknowledgment segment And the act is saying I acknowledge the sin segment that you just sent me So segment one client sends a synchronized segment to the server segment two The server sends a synchronized segment back to the client and That segment is also acknowledging the first sin received The third segment is from the client to the server And it's the client acknowledging the sin received from the server And these first three segments are commonly seen in the setting up of a connection in TCP We see a sin a syn act an act Let's try and illustrate that we have Node one communicating with node three We will not draw node two the router even though the messages go via the router will focus on the the client and server so We have Some set up of a connection where we involve sending Sin segment from client to server Saying I want to synchronize sequence numbers the server sends back an act saying thank you for that sin segment I agree with the value you proposed But it also sends its own Sin segment proposing its own sometimes we write sin plus act This second segment has two purposes Acknowledge the first and propose a new initial sequence number for the direction of communications from client to server Then the third Is This client saying I acknowledge the sin that you just sent me this is Uh, the tcp connection set up sometimes referred to as a three-way handshake It takes three steps to agree upon those values And at that point we say the tcp connection is set up between client and server and now we can start transferring data Let's go back to wireshark and look at the the next segment from client to server PSH is sure for push And in this case we'll common commonly see the push segment meaning Send the data in this segment directly to the application as fast as possible Uh, maybe the simplest way to interpret it or to uh in in this case is that this segment contains data And the best way to confirm that if we look inside the segment We have the ethernet header IP header tcp header and then the actual data And we see down in the the hexadecimal or the binary The ascii interpretation of that data those 12 bytes is the message that I typed in hello node 3 So this is the actual data segment It's uses the push flag But what I interpret this segment as is one containing data and when I draw it I'll illustrate that so there we have a segment going from client to server and That segment contains data And the data in this case was the data one I'll just type data one But it was a hello node what I typed in hello node 3 Coming back to wireshark Note that that data segment also contains an act and this can get a bit confusing And in fact if we look through all the subsequent segments There are acts included And we normally interpret the act as saying thank you for the previous segment you sent me. I now expect some more well It's common that in a tcp implementation will act every segment and just to confirm that We've already received the previous one Even in this case, we haven't received any data yet. We still send an act It takes a lot more time to explain how the acknowledgement numbers and sequence numbers work You you need to study tcp and flow control and congestion control to get the details of that But for now we'll interpret this this fourth segment in our list as a data segment It contained hello node 3 or the first piece of data The next segment from server to client Does not contain any data. We see in wireshark. There's no data field. There's no push segment It's just an act And this is saying from the server. Thank you for the data you just sent me I now expect some more So if we draw that This is an act coming back. There's no data in this segment. It's just a small segment Acknowledging the previous data received And then it continues the next segment from client to server more data. Here is my new secret Then an act Data Containing the password And then an act data act I'll just draw One of those Not all four just draw a second one Let's say data to the second piece of data whatever it was and then That was acknowledged as well And we can continue and as we've got data to to exchange and Although this example doesn't show we can be sending data in the direction from client from server to client tcp allows data to go in both directions doesn't matter who sets up the connection Velocity segments remember I press control d on the client And that triggers The client to initiate the closing of the connection And there's a special fin segment to say I want to finish the connection The client says I want to finish The service says I acknowledge that and I want to finish as well And then the client also finally acknowledges the fin that was sent and We'll draw that We can think that there's fin segment Saying the client wants to finish And it's quite unique in that tcp What can actually happen one side of the The party's communicating can finish and close the connection while the other side can still be sending data. It could be open So you need to actually finish from both sides so The response back was to acknowledge that finish message And for the server to say let's finish from my side as well And the last segment we saw in there was the client sending to the server. I acknowledged the fin segment you just sent me this is closing the connection You'll often see this this typical exchange. Of course, you may see different amounts of data in between the set The three-way handshake and closing connection Uh, but that's a typical Series of packets you may see Let's to finish just go and look at some of those tcp segments in a bit more depth First let's for example choose the sin segment And just look at the tcp header And I'll make a bit more space here. What does the tcp header contain? Some of the things of importance the source port the port number assigned to the client application destination port for the server application A sequence number an acknowledgement number a few other fields the flags One bit values in this case The sin flag was set to one meaning this is a sin segment There was no data in this case In the second segment if we look at the flags both the acknowledgement flag was set and the sins flag was set They're just one bit values meaning this segment has two purposes. It's both acknowledging the previous segment and synchronizing a sequence number And in data the push flag is set And we actually see the data inside that segment So that's a quick illustration of how tcp works We see the connection setup. We see the data transfer and The close of the connection And you'll commonly see those exchanges when you capture other applications which use tcp And the way that we triggered that if we bring it up On the server We ran netcat in tcp mode And as a server using the minus l option and choosing a port number While at the client we ran it in client mode by specifying the address of the server both ip and port number


group of producers in that we know that have put some of these to test and have done some different experimenting on their own operations to share some things that have worked for them, maybe some things that have not worked for them. So we ask them if they'd be willing to come in and share some information with you guys. So we're going to have them come up, introduce themselves, give a couple of minute background information on their farm operation, how they utilize the byproducts on their farm, and then we're going to turn the floor over to you guys to ask them questions. So our producer panel, Darren's Leggold, producer down in my county in Ransom County in McLeod, North Dakota, runs a purebred operation with a feedlot operation. I've been experimenting with different types of byproducts mixed in with some different feed stuff, so he's going to serve as one of the producer panel. Kevin Elliott from UpBike Clifford, his family also runs a purebred semitel operation, a feedlot operation. It was all to his operation here a couple of years ago. They do quite a bit of different work with some byproducts and won't hold against them. We're college classmates together. Justin Spickler, let's see, up by Glenfield runs a registered Angus operation with his brother, and they do again quite a bit of different use with some byproducts. Keith Gimmel, probably the one I don't know, or at least knows on this panel, so I guess I don't know your whole background, but you can do that when you come up and introduce yourself and talk about what your operation is. So if we get that producer panel up here, we'll get going with that. So I guess we're going to turn the mic over. We'll start here with Darren and again be if you guys want to introduce yourself, give a little bit of background about your operation, how you got going with the byproducts, how you use them, maybe a couple instances, how they're working for you, maybe something that isn't work for you, and then pass it down the line and then we'll open up for discussion. Like Brian said, my name is Darren Sackbold, down in the cloud area. We run a cow-calf operation registered limousine cattle and a feedlot. We use a lot, a lot of feedpulps, the last couple winters especially, with our water situation down there. We've been really short on feed and feedpulps has really saved our bucks. We also use a lot of the fillers. We put both of these products up and kept them for at least a year and I've really had good luck storing them both. I've never really had a bad experience with it, I guess. We've used wet distillers and dry. We do like the wet distillers better, just the feed better, makes a better action. And then I guess we'll pass it down. My name is Keith Gemmel. I'm from Port Monarch Dakota and I run a feedlot. We run a feedlot by background cattle and we take them up to finish weight and we've got different experiences with beet ball, beet tailings and we also store some wet distillers grain long-term. I'm Kevin Elliott, from Clifford, North Dakota.  My dad and my uncle run a feedlot in Galesburg and a bunch of commercial cows. We're about 30 miles from Castleton for the distillers and about 20 miles from Hillsboro for the beets. It's a good location for byproduct feeds. We utilize it the best we can. I'm Justin Spickler. I am in a partnership with my brother and we run a group of registered Angus cows and we've tried to incorporate byproducts as much as possible or screenings products or something. I think the last time I bought a $6 or $7 corn was when it first started to go up. I had a bad experience with somebody where the corn price changed and I got to pay full price for corn after I thought I bought it for a couple dollars less and we actually do finish some cattle and we develop a lot of our bulls and the only actual grain product to go through them is whole old. As far as experience with byproducts I always consult one of the extension people before we try to store it and that's been very beneficial. We did store some beet pulp where we piled it in the fall and covered it with plastic and it had very very little spoilage. I ran into two problems that are now obvious after listening today. One of them we couldn't get up on the pile like we thought we wanted to be able to. Our tractor would actually fall through. If the bucket was full we didn't have a dozer. The other problem was that we closed that pile of pulp up and after it was covered we closed it up because we wanted to save it for March when we were going through our thaw and the pile actually froze on us and so we didn't get to use it until April but it kept fine. It's just that we by not keeping the pile open it froze and it presented a little bit of a challenge that way. That's my most memorable experience. A big solid block of beet pulp. I guess at this time if you guys have questions we'll open up for questions. I think Carl's got a kickoff question for you guys and we'll start with that. We'll repeat the question. So what is your best what have you found the best method of feeding byproducts mixing to the cattle and we'll go down the line or someone has something they really want to share. Just jump in here. Against our experience kind of like dusting with the beet pulp. We put in quite a bit of beet pulp last fall. We made a deal with Otto Wapiton and we took about 70-80 loads of pulp during their free harvest where they couldn't get rid of it. We kind of made a verbal agreement with them at the time that you take it now and you get a lot of spoilage say January or February that they would make it right with it. I had a four-wheel drive with a blade on so I could actually drive on the pile a little. We pushed it up in a pile and I could drive on it. I did mix a little bit of straw with it, ground straw just to kind of give it a little base I guess once in a while because like Greg referred to it started poking out on the edges and we put line bales around the outside and that really seemed to help soak up a lot of the moisture that over time that pulp kind of breaks down and water heats out of it. And then delivering it to the cattle, most of our cows are all fed in tires and we CRM mix just about everything that's fed. Well we use a TMR wagon for all of our feeding and we feed the beet pulp, we feed the distillers grain and as far as storing the beet pulp what we've tried there is to mix it with old chop straw or screenings and that seems to really help it'll firm it up enough so that you can get up there and you can pack it with a tractor. As far as the distillers grain I'm kind of a green hornet storing that but we did try something last fall where we got 50 loads in and we just made a U with bales, lined that with plastic and then we put it up about four feet high on the bales and covered the pile with plastic and it seemed to store real well. Matter of fact we're just finishing up feeding that pile now that we stored last August. I guess my only problem with it is when we're feeding with the TMR, you get some big chunks and you wreck a lot of machinery with those hard boulders that you put into the feed wagon so you got to be careful. Like you said when you mix it with some screenings or some pulp or some hay or something it helps it so when it's frozen it's not quite as hard it might break up a little bit instead of defending your augers and your feed wagon or knives or whatever it is that you're feeding with. That's really the only problem I've had with them. I guess I would say I don't have too much to add other than ours all goes through a mixture wagon or just stillers does and something that we've had to kind of train ourselves to be aware of is to be, to make sure the product is similar with each load. Pretty much all of ours comes fresh and if you get a load that's either real dry or real wet it can really mess up a set of cattle if you're pretty close on your bunk calls but ours is always fresh I guess. You find it a real work better than auger wagon? Well I've got an auger wagon so I'm kind of partial to that but I have used a real wagon and it seems like the auger wagon mixes better for me and I've also tried a vertical wagon and I think if you were on a high roughage ration I think a vertical wagon would work fine but on a high concentrate ration we didn't have very good luck with it so myself we use an auger wagon. I think we use both one couple auger wagons and one real and the real mixes a lot quicker. The auger might mix better I don't know but I think they both work fine. If we just have a real and if we didn't fill it's whole pull it would mix better. The question I have is could each one of you tell your way that you preferred to put up a wet distillers or a wet beet pulp into a pile and if you were to do it tomorrow how would you do it? With your experience. Right now I can pour a shitload of cement and get that underneath it so I can get to it first of all. Otherwise like with the wet distillers I'd real good luck just piling it by itself and leaving it and not covering it. We just push it up the best you can with maybe bales around the edges. If we had a big cement bunker that'd probably be better but it takes a little cash too and I guess I owe $5 in this way I do too. Well I think the storing the wet distillers is a real issue depending on its moisture. We got some at 35% moisture and it was a bear to work with you'd push it up and when you turn around it'd come right back out at you and we got some at 45% and we could push it up about 6 feet high but I think if I was to store wet distillers again what I would try and do is to make a four-sided bunker out of straw bales with plastic and get a hold of some kind of a conveyor that you could back up to and just convey it in and just let it keep filling because it's kind of pointless to sit there and push it up with a loader when it comes right back out at you by the time the next truck load comes. So I think that that would work but I think with the distillers you have to have a plastic cover on it. The experience that we've had is that we've had very little waste I would say 2 to 3 inches is the most with a good plastic cover on there. I like your idea with the distillers that's what we would do again. We put it up both ways. We mixed it with straw went through all the work of grinding straw, layering it in a manure spreader to try to get it on mix which was it wasn't science playing it out but it was a lot quicker than running through a feed wagon and running a lot of hours on a feed wagon. So we ran it through the spreader and I could push it up in a pile and actually drive on it and pack it. And it kept great. We fed out of that pile for about a year and a half and at the end it was damn near as good as it was when we put it in there. We started to show a little spoilage and we did cover it with plastic. What is time consuming? When you get all them loads in you've got to have a place to put them loads and you've got a place to put your ground A and another place for your pile and 3 or 4 guys that's good health and if I would do it again the last time we did it we put it in made a bunker out of bales and we didn't line the edges with plastic but we did cover the top of it with plastic and there too had very little spoilage and it's just a lot less labor intensive. And as far as the beet faults I guess we're planning on doing this fall the same thing we did last year. We can get in on pre-arvest on beet faults and it's just enough ground hang with it to help drive on it. Put it in a pile and we did that we just covered with some ground hang. We never put plastic on that.  We haven't had much trouble with beet faults for a real issue but if you come into frozen stuff you can push it to the side and when spring rolls around you can just feed it up but like you say as far as putting an end to it. They don't roll here at all.  Covered your piles with some ground hay or blew on some straw. Would that help with the freezing problem?  We kind of got lucky in the next day I got about an inch and a half of rain. I don't know if you call it lucky or not we didn't need the rain but it just sealed that straw right up. I think it really helped on my spoilage problem or issue but it still froze. We still had all six to eight inches 25 below for a few days and we were feeding it out of the pile every day but it was still freezing on the edge. We've had the same experience with putting straw on the pile it definitely helps with the freezing and I don't think you can get as much spoilage. Can you guys talk a little bit about the arrangement that you have with the plant that you're getting your products from how often your delivery is or how you got that set up? Our beetle delivery is real erratic. We try to do like Darren and get some in in the fall so we've got a reserve and then we just get it as often as the truck driver can get it which is a neighbor which is really handy as far as distillers we get it. My brother works in at Blue Flint so he makes us buy it from him and we get it out there and it's always very available I guess so we don't have any trouble getting that but the pulp is if you're intending to feed it for a certain number of days you want to be a little ways ahead so you make sure you have enough. I guess with the beet pulp what we've done too is to stockpile it in the fall of the year so we don't have to quite put loads in the winter and we also especially if you're going to haul tailings you run into freezing if you have to haul it very far. As far as the distillers grain we typically contract in June or not June but July or August for the coming year if they'll allow it and what we get ours mainly on a wall haul off some of it comes out of Castleton but what we find is that if we don't have a contract when we need it we can't get it so we pretty much have to contract just to have availability.  Kind of like to add it on hand and with our distillers we've been getting most everything out of Castleton since its price that it is. We've been getting like a load a week during the winter when we were using it up say if you can get a contract as if you know it was a nice way of doing it but not all of them will contract with you. And you've got to walk up the way to the back to the room. I've got like more questions here. First one we've mentioned corn syrup just comments that any of you guys have had experience with the distillers solubles and that'll give you another question while we're at it talked about Salon's research with the spoiled feeds I wonder if you guys take any precautions to manage your spoiled feeds to certain groups of cattle. We've got some cow calf and feedlot operators there so those are the two questions. On the solubles we've used them back when we could get them a little easier they're not, when they're given in a way it was a lot easier to get it than when you get to pay for it but when we were grinding hay we'd spray it up with the hay as it was coming out and that was kind of our storage device. We didn't have any tanks or anything it wasn't the science to it. If you wanted to, for feedlot cattle if you want your ration really really consistent I probably wouldn't recommend that. I'd recommend adding it and having a couple of pamphlets in the books about storage tanks and I'd recommend that if you want to keep your ration consistent.  What were the other questions about the spoilage on the cow herd? Then we tried to take some moldy stuff away if we can a little bit and the feedlot usually don't worry about it too much. We've never fed any of the spoilage so as far as spoilage goes our inclusion rate in the cow calf side of it the cows would be after calving typically is when we would use it and in the feedlot ration I guess we hadn't had any problems with it and we were pretty current I guess on our fresh distiller so there wasn't a lot of spoilage. Well we've never fed the serbs so I don't really have any knowledge of that but as far as the spoilage on the other feed we don't seem to have an awful lot of spoilage but if we get a chance we scrape it off and try not to get it in the mixed way but we're strictly a feedlot so we really don't worry about it too much with the abortion issue. I guess on the spoilage for us again with the distillers we just don't seem to get a lot of spoilage in what we do. We try to run through the feedlot in especially during the winter and spring months and we're getting close to calving and keep that away from the cows all the soluble. There are two, we don't feed a lot of soluble it's about the only time we've used it. There are two, we're too cheap we only used it when it was free and we just used it to cover our silage file and also put it over a beef pole file one year after we had it on just to kind of try to seal the pile up but now that they're charging for it or if there's a grave or somebody alluded to that you know about 40-50% of that it's going to be a lot of feed value that's in there from just drying out that we kind of went away from doing it. Question was is there any benefit of putting it on top of the pile? It's kind of, it's hard to make that determination I guess. Yeah I think it helps some on the spoilage but now we just cover everything with plastic and it's a lot less spoiling so as far as I'm concerned plastic is a better investment than when the surf was free and it wasn't such an issue. Any faster supplementation at the speed of the long event? No one supplemented out on the faster with fly product? We feed just to supplement our cows keep them in good condition through the winter months a mixture of wet cake and potato waste. We discontinue doing that shortly before they calve and don't start doing it again until about 30 days after calving because they just produce so much milk that the calves can't handle it all. Milk that utilizes on the pasture or panel? What sort of information does the SNL plant or the beet plant give you as far as nutrient composition of the product? How often or what do they give you when you have a load go out? I guess our experience with that is when we tried to get an analysis from MnDAC with the beet it's been pretty much a generic one that they have gotten last week on Wednesday and wrote that one up and so what we did last fall when we put our pile in I took like a sample a day out of it and mixed it all up and sent it in for an analysis and that's what we based our ration sheet off them and put the distillers to I think they're a little more current with their analysis especially with the sulfur issues and stuff we've sent some samples in and it's always been real consistent so we've kind of just been going by their analysis. I guess the experience that we've had with the distillers grain is that in Wohala they test pretty much every load that comes out of there for moisture and for sulfur content and that's the two things that we look at and on the stuff that we've had stored what we've found over time is that the sulfur content goes up a little and the protein content goes up and the moisture content goes down to guarantee it at 65% moisture or less and the sample we took after has been stored for several months came back at 61. Yeah, we don't get much analysis from the plants but the feed company that we use, the nutritionist and the guy that helps us out at the feedlot, he takes samples probably once a month on all of our ingredients that come into the feedlot just to look over everything. We'd be kind of the same way we test as we get them and I guess at Blue Flint they do have stuff in place to kick off spec loads off to the side so they have a separate pile and all I've learned from David is that you don't joke about off spec loads. The highest percentage of ethanol byproducts in a dry matter basis you use and have you seen any polio? I guess in our finishing ration it'd be right at 30%. We're using a modified product and we like it really well. We do use it real lightly in our bull ration, occasionally in our developing heifer ration and then to as the cows are getting a little sort of peak lactation we'll use a couple pounds in the spring but the highest inclusion we have is in our finishing diet at about 30% and I guess what was the other half of it is there more to it than that. We actually had a case of polio this year that was misdiagnosed by management and we lost the animal but it's been I guess I haven't seen one of those for about 8 or 9 years or maybe longer so I did the math as Galen was talking about it and our rate of incidence would be real similar to the one they saw obviously much more study. Usually we work with a nutritionist in the extension service and ask them whatever they recommend and then price has a lot to do with it too and feed an awful lot of things and the extension says you can't get away with it if the price is keeping it. Well the highest inclusion rate that we've gone on wet distillers grain right now we're at about 40% and it's a little bit higher than the so-called experts recommend but the nutritionist we've got says you won't have any problem with that level so that's where we are. I guess what we do is look at the price of wet distillers grain versus corn and our wet distillers is by far the cheapest feed of the two. Now we're kind of the same way and I guess as far as on a finishing ration we haven't finished many cattle in the last couple of years but we have fed up to 35% or 38% on a dry matter and got along well with that as far as the polio thing we did have on Gaff about two years ago that that's what he was diagnosed at anyway and we've fed a lot of us through a lot of cattle and won over all the years and it's not really an issue. Other questions for you guys we've talked a lot about corn distillers, beet products, have you guys experimented with any other type of co-products that Quinn briefly talked about today? Potatoes, cold potatoes and I've tried that many different ways running them through a snowblower kind of beat them up that way, feeding them whole and from my experience I just don't think that they're worth it so I don't do that anymore. Oh yeah, feed soybean meal once in a while it's cheap, but soybean hulls everything usually comes down to price, we'll feed a lot of different things we got a edible bean plant in town we'll get some splits once in a while but we used to get a lot more but it's ADM and they got to run their regulations and can't just take them anymore, they have to have what the heck is it called for pollution control they have to know everything, where it went and who's got it I guess we've used the gluten pellets and wheat mids, pea splits, corn screenings sunflower screenings and we're kind of the same way economics comes into play and as long as you know a little bit about each of those commodities so you don't feed them at too high a level they all seem to work pretty good, you also need to know it's important to remember that like for instance our sunflower screens are a little erratic in availability and can be very erratic in quality so we don't want to, if we're getting those we don't want to bank on them in a huge amount for energy in any ration we just kind of consider it as a bonus so if you keep coming out in mind it sure seems to help but we're open to anything and everything or we try to be I don't, I guess I like to see people make money at six and seven dollar corn but I don't like to buy it at that and so we try to use anything else that we can kind of along with the screenings thing there too we've been using quite a bit of screenings the last couple years we've known this even from one elevator to another the difference in quality or protein and feed value and screening varies a lot from well we were buying, we were kind of on the edge of the Reggiter Valley and you buy some screenings wet or you buy some screenings out of Reggiter Valley and there's a big difference in quality of feed that way and I guess I did feed one load of potatoes probably five six years ago and I had the same experience I couldn't deal with them you know you got all these lumps and then once they froze in the wintertime then you really had a problem with them we tried to drive on them and everything else to flatten them out and they wound up pushing them off to the side to wait until spring and that was almost worse because they sunk the bad ones they thought of that is just a mess to get rid of them but I know they have a lot of good feed value and there's some potato warehouses pretty close by to us and the only reason I got them is because they were spoiling anyway and they had to get them out of the house it wasn't a very good fair analysis for potatoes I guess another question well let's thank our panel for coming in and sharing with us some of their experiences with using some of these different products and how they utilize them in their operation that this time I'll train it to tell me to hold up