s impossible that we should be content to be such and not load our own evil in other words, if you go to see a play and you're feeling embarrassed by it or especially a comedy think this is when you're watching cringe comedy it can be deeply embarrassing even as you're watching this you watch the office and feel like you wanna hide Cross is saying that's part of the point of going to the theater you go to comedy to feel shame that is important because it teaches you virtuous action, what not to do right so playhouses are an effective technology deeply involved in shaming he also makes the move to implying something about public persecution so think about public shamings this is the kind of stocks public executions he gives you this image thinks about a man who has his ears cut off his head he has small cause to glory or boast but rather blush be ashamed and exile himself from common society and strive with humility to reform those rebellious passions so it is somebody who has punished publicly is shamed and that is an important social cohesive move it teaches you humility it teaches you how to control your passions what I'm getting at here is there is a culture of shame happening at the period of the same time you've got these playhouses in fact the Shakespearean Ewan Ferney says that Shakespeare is living in an atmosphere of raging shame you've got these playhouses that have effective technologies we are willing to feel things as a group in ways never possible before and what we're seeing is interest in the emotion of shame what is shame and how does it work and that is obviously here a theatrical experience and I want to go to a line from the scholar of affect theory Eve Sedgwick and she thinks a lot about how emotions are shared she's got a very long history of this and she begins her work with the affect of shame and importantly when she's talking about shame she wants to say that it is an exchange that shame is always participatory even if you feel like shame is a deeply individual feeling as Sedgwick wants to say no it's always an exchange between people so think about like bear with me if I'm up here with my zipper down and you're all watching going oh my gosh oh it's so embarrassing right you are identifying with me at the same time you're pushing me away as different right so Sedgwick wants to say shame is this constant exchange between people right she gives this line which is great for a Shakespearean the shame might be finally said transformational shame is performance and I mean theatrical performance so what I'm getting at here is Shakespeare's history plays are very much invested in the affect of shame and it wants you to remember the feeling of shame that that is a collective experience so if I go back to my Richard the third image Richard is haunted by the ghosts of his victims who come to him in the night and of course chant shame on him we can look at Richard as the villain here but also we are participating with him in that feeling of shame and remembering this legacy of English shame I'm gonna go to a line from Henry the sixth part one this is one of Shakespeare's first history plays and in this play he kind of shows this war between the French and the English and you can see here the death of Talbot Talbot is this great English hero in this Henry the sixth play he's kind of this marker of medieval chivalry and he dies in this play it's a very sad kind of ending to a to this kind of medieval period of kind of heroism it's the beginning of the war of roses which happened in the 1400s a longstanding English civil war Talbot's death is this moment where oh my gosh our last great English hero has died you can see these are two English lords saying well his fame lives in the world we will remember Talbot but his shame lives in you that is the death of Talbot and Talbot dies at this play because the English are so busy fighting with one another about who's going to take the throne that they don't send Talbot reinforcements his death in France is on the English hands this is the legacy of that play that our great hero has died and whose fault is it well it's kind of the English's own fault his shame will live in those lords so if I go to this kind of great play of Henry the fifth which is so triumphant often I have this line from Isabelle Kerman who says nostalgic spectacle is what induces a passion for the past in the audience if it is indeed a device for producing emotions that you can night a group of spectators and the theater surely is a privileged site of nation building through nostalgia that's a very kind of glowing we go to see English plays because like yes England we can see them we can build that pride what I'm suggesting is it's not that I disagree that there is this emotional exchange happening and the restaging of English history and the memory work happening there is that I think the emotions are largely about regret and humiliation Shakespeare's history plays aren't mostly about English triumphs they're mostly about civil war about English defeating themselves and doing damage to themselves like that's the memory that's being restaged I think that's the collective experience happening in these plays if I go back to Talbot when Talbot's dying he has the chance to save his son tells his son you've got to get away from this battle save yourself and his son won't leave says no I'm going to die with you here so this exchange part of my father may be saved in the Talbot says get away save yourself and young Talbot says if I leave no part of me will be saved but is shameful I left and I left you here to die this is a moment I think that happens often in Shakespeare's history plays where characters are always commenting on like wow what are people going to say about this in 100 years in 200 years it's always an ironic moment right because an audience is watching this history unfold and the characters are thinking how will we be remembered I don't know what do you think you hear those that survive are going to feel the shame of Talbot's death that's the memory we're going to feel into the future and in fact the English lords responsible for the tragedy of Talbot's death they get mad at each other and they specifically make this about memory they say I'll note you in my book of memory discourage you for this apprehension meaning I'm going to write down I'm going to remember in my book of memory what you did and it's about scourging that is the public whipping right so this is a shameful experience we are going to remember this and replay this and feel that shame again and again and again that's the emotional memory at work in this play and it serves a political purpose that is it is the binding force that's pulling the experience of these plays together and I think is having political effects and much inclined with national identity let me end with a line from Sarah Ahmed she's a theorist who wrote the cultural politics of emotion how do what do politics have to do with emotion and she says this line so it's shame that allows us to assert our identity as a nation so what I'm getting at here is the reconciliation of those English civil wars is very much about replaying that shame again and again and again to feel that regret and that's not opposite to national identity that is causing national identity so to think about reconciliation or what are we going to do with the legacy of the Iraq invasion it is a shameful chapter what I'm suggesting is that shame that we feel that Lorraine Aldi is pointing at is part of the reconciliation it is part of that memory work that shame is an emotional memory that leads to national identity thanks everyone hello everyone I'm used to talking in 50 minute chunks so I've been given exactly 15 to speak today so I don't trust myself to read without a text in front of me so I'll be reading this rather than presenting in lecture form the way my colleagues have managed to do my title is recovering from 40 years of state socialism the case of Greifswald as the Cold War wound down across the globe in the late 1980s the German Democratic Republic East Germany had two examples that could follow in response to the increasingly urgent internal calls for change since becoming leader of the Soviet Union in 1985 Mikhail Gorbachev had last had called for perestroika restructuring and glasnost openness in an effort to adapt to the changing circumstances in June 1989 the People's Republic of China took a different approach responding to growing internal unrest and demands for change with a brutal and bloody crackdown on protesters on Beijing's Tiananmen Square the government of the German Democratic Republic showed signs of following the Chinese example October 7th, 1989 during official celebrations of the GDR's 40th anniversary riot police in East Berlin broke up a substantial counter demonstration only a few blocks away beating some of the protesters arresting many others why then why then is that not the path that the GDR ultimately took and how did the peaceful transition that ultimately was accomplished look from the point of view of the East Germans I'd like to look at that I'd look at five key factors in the, in die Wende in this turnabout at the end of the which die Wende by the way means just to turn around to change directions as Germans refer to this year and a half process from the middle of 1989 through the end of 1990 when the Cold War came to an end East Germany collapsed and the two Germanies were reunited the outline of the story is familiar however for reasons it will become clear in the course of this talk the answer to our question how was that experienced by East Germans will vary greatly from city to city I'll use the memoir of Dr. Reinhard Glückner of the East German city of Greifswald his memoir to look at these developments from a local perspective so 65,000 residents of that medium-sized cities similar to Burlington in size and also like Burlington home of a major university so the first of these five factors I'd like to look at are the churches although Marx's Leninist ideology allows no space for religion the East German constitution was amended in nineteen eighty nineteen sixty eight to include explicit acknowledgement of a legitimate role for the church as an independent organization with important social relevance in East Germany under the heading church in socialism faculties of theology were allowed to operate at six East German universities the room the room to operate evolved within each community was negotiated between among the clergy the parishioners and local authorities in each case in air for it for example in southern Germany the geographical proximity is consistent also with networks of friendships of cooperation of understanding and communication that characterized this region was partly responsible for a change of variety at the pace at which change happened and the ways in which it happened within East Germany in these last crucial months in air for it this led to the church's for both becoming open spaces for dialogue and affirmation including inner city outreach and more and this entail the frequent the sometimes intense sometimes tense dialogue with state authorities thus when the events of nineteen eighty nine brought political discussion out into the streets church leaders new people in the government they could talk with and the danger of political police intervention as it broke out in Berlin on october seven could be avoided like to began in september with weekly peace services and public marches that grew to include tens of thousands of participants for secretary of the easterman party eric honaker had already given the order for security forces to use live ammunition on marches and like to but his deputy refused to carry out that order as a result on october eighteenth honaker has resigned from his post later that month when thousands of protesters were surrounded by riot police in dresden they elected while their leaders negotiated with local authorities and held off kind of a ceasefire kind of a standoff began to begin to diffuse the uh... this group together elected from their midst twenty representatives a group of twenty that would go and speak with and and dialogue with the local authorities offer was accepted that group was part of that in on going of the main structure that was maintained for months and beyond that and had a tremendous impact on how the events of these this transition played out in the city of leipzig excuse me it is against this backdrop of growing tension and differing local circumstances that would begin our closer look at greifswald so i wanted to you see the map there and where the cities are located we share with you you can refer to the timeline here for some of the different events that i'll be mentioning as these as this year-and-a-half progresses so divende begins in greifswald with a discussion that happens in the home of pastor glückner in nineteen eighty one at that time a discussion circle of the marienkirche of the city of greifswald was meeting in the home of of the glückner family the topic came up of tresden and the annual prayer service for peace held in that city's churches commemorating the firebombing of the city in nineteen forty four why them why just them we could do something like that here with grudging support from the bishop and his staff annual peace services began in the marienkirche that year looking back doctor glückner recalls divende for his congregation began with that that conversation and that decision to act by september of nineteen eighty nine churches in several cities in the southern part of east germany had begun hosting weekly public forums followed by lengthy marches doctor glückner's congregation joined them on october eighteenth the day that hannocker resigned so that the other parts of the country had a head start but that that this point this was their process of catching up and since stepping into and contributing to what was becoming a wave of wide wide spread popular motion movement for change the first evening marches passed by police headquarters on the way to city hall they found the police force assembled but after a tense moment they were allowed to pass when the marches reached city hall several members of the city council came out to meet them and some discussion was held the mayor offered the university dining hall as a site for future discussions and so it became a weekly event prayer service candlelight march public forum in the university dining halls second force second factor i'd like to talk about of the five were mentioned the state security agency stasi for short the dreaded internal police agency on december sixteenth a week after the berlin wall was opened the topic of the week in the unit in the greifswald university dining hall was the state security agency the dreaded stasi with the departure of erich hannocker a few weeks earlier the agency had been renamed but there was no change in its behavior dr glückner served as moderator for this discussion and representatives from the stasi were in a panel at the head of the table it became heated quickly someone called for all police authority to be taken away from that agency dr glückner called for a vote a show of hands made clear that all but a handful of the thousands in attendance supported that move the mood shift in the room was immediate later that evening a group entered the stasi headquarters and began inspecting the files the agency had been keeping on its citizens from then on teams monitored those offices day and night to read the contents of those files and to prevent the destruction in all of east germany greifswald is the only city where in those whose inhabitants read the stasi files of their own co-inhabitants there were files on twenty two thousand of the city's sixty five thousand inhabitants do the math that includes children too more than half of the adult population was includes had some kind of been spied on in some way and records were kept there stasi file cabinets were sealed on december fourth with the consent of the city's mayor by the end of december all fifty two regular employees of the stasi in greifswald had been fired the building had been reassigned to the university's music department those efforts led to further important step in destroying any remaining claim of legitimacy by the east germany state the stasi had marked the files of one thousand one hundred nine greifswald citizens who had not participated in the elections the previous may the published results of those elections stated that only four hundred twenty six had not voted in greifswald the city official responsible for the election was confronted and confessed that he had received a note before the election with the results that he was to report he was found guilty of election fraud and find greifswald and airford are the only are the two east german cities where the pervasive election fraud of the east germany state was documented and those documents made public you notice there's been little talk in the last couple minutes of the role of the churches that role had been threefold first to open a safe space for dialogue second to constantly and without exception commit all participants to non-violence and third to use pre-existing channels of communication to engage the authorities and to head off confrontation by december of nineteen eighty nine that work was complete and the churches were no longer directly involved and no longer needed for things to move forward third of the five areas to cover the round table der runde tisch from those discussions new movements sprang up nor his forum was one democratic uproh the one that angela merkel belong to or as an east german citizen in greifswald and many other cities as well their members were invited to join with local civic leaders and local government officials in an unofficial council they called it der runde tisch this is something like what enthrased in the group of twenty established that met regularly to maintain the operations of the city of greifswald the city in greifswald the city in the mayor council that excuse me the mayor of the city council pledged that they would consider the decisions of the round table binding upon their actions this ushered in the era of inclusion and collaboration that would continue until the gdr's first round of truly democratic local elections which were held on may sixth nineteen ninety factor to consider the marchers in october september and october of nineteen eighty nine took to the streets with the chant we are the people the isn't us folk you the government do not speak for the people we are the people and this is what we say we disagree after the opening of the wall within a very few weeks the chant changed significantly from we are the people visit us folk to the isn't I'm falling we are one people so the isn't us folk had been the central message of the courageous reformers who open the churches spoke and march through the through march through the fall of nineteen eighty nine soon after the opening of the Berlin wall though this group had comprised that it comprised the vanguard had been left behind as much larger crowds amended the chant to the isn't I'm folk people had moved from wanting to reform socialism to wanting to live in a different entirely different system west german center-right party of chancellor coal easily won the national elections that were held on march eighteenth as well as the elections for local and regional offices may six in greifswald know his forum received only six percent of the vote and democratic uproar one of whose spokespersons had been unmasked as a stasi collaborator got less than one percent so as dr glickner puts it in his book people voted for a unit in germany for the deutschmark the hard currency the west and for the banana the banana you the east europe the sub union had no access to hard currency therefore they couldn't import things like tropical fruits that were easily available in the west and not at all in the east a final note sister cities during the final years of the gdr cities were allowed to form partnerships with cities in the west including west germany starting in nineteen eighty eight greifswald partnered with osnabrück also a medium-sized north german town with a regional university at first delegations by visits by delegations from one city to the other were closely watched and pretty dry affairs but with the elections of may nineteen ninety and dr glückner's inauguration as mayor this partnership became a lifeline since the course had now been set for east germany to be incorporated into the existing economic and political and legal and educational systems of west germany greifswald city government desperately needed people familiar with those systems osnabrück sent heads of their respective departments in their city government for lengthy work visits weeks sometimes months in fact one moved to greifswald permanently while continuing to pay their salaries in deutschmark as greifswald's public transportation system in virtually collapsed as well as nabrück delivered nine buses to get them started again these acts of solidarity made it possible for greifswald city government to navigate the move on july first nineteen ninety to the deutschmark has the only valid currency the closing of east germany's national agencies in july the ceasing of operations of the district the government's by the end of august and the long weeks of political vacuum between the constitution of the newly drawn bundeslender in the east in september and the first meeting of the bundeslend legislature following elections in october was this the culmination yes the culmination of this year of elections was the all-german elections held in december the former german democratic republic was incorporated into the existing federal republic of germany comprising five of the now sixteen bundeslender for the first time since nineteen thirty three germany had a government freely elected by the whole nation was this the end of the recovery process of course not large issues remained and we're dealt with for the end are still being dealt with today did the issues remain unresolved or even unaddressed some yes but with the early efforts of the churches the brave participation of those marchers and discussants especially early on the pragmatic collaboration of all sides at the roundtables and some generous and timely help from a sister city greifswald and the other cities of the former east germany were ready to face the challenges the post-cold war era would bring thank you to professor pavetti and doctor ward we will now be having questions we have about ten minutes to do so anyone who has questions may at this point make their way to the mikes on either side of the aisles thank you i my question is you talked about shameless creating identity what happens if most people do not feel shame for an event like the iraq war uh... yeah i think that's a great question and and i think that's what's the struggle is happening in that article there are a few of those where people are wrestling with twenty years on what are we doing with this uh... and i think part of it is what would it take to create uh... affective shame that is collective in his shared and i imagine that will start to see that in some film and representations in art uh... about the iraq war invasion of afghanistan uh... i think uh... similar moment i think about vietnam films for instance that uh... often have these scenes where dealing with regret and shame and that those films are wrestling with what that legacy is like and i think that will start to happen i don't know for sure but i think that's that idea of that shaping what that memory will be will involve feeling what shame is and feeling what that collective feeling of shame might be if you could see if it's in one place might it then be shared amongst many thank you hi thank you for those great papers uh... professor pavetti absolutely fascinating discussion of emotional memory and shame in the way that those come together really appreciated that uh... what i what i would love to do is actually a professor ward respond to some of these questions that professor pavetti brought up because uh... you know the end of of the cold war in the east was a complicated experience uh... and i wonder if you could talk just a little bit about what the emotional memory of that period of reconciliation is like was there a sense of of shame in the immediate aftermath in east germany or is that not quite the right word to use to describe what was happening in the immediate aftermath how do we make sense of the largest emotion now it seems to be kind of nostalgia uh... you know how how does that fit in with emotional memory so i just would love to to hear you talk just a bit about at bringing these two together by by seeing what kind of emotions were brought up by that end of the cold war in the east i'm struck by i'm reminded of a passage in dr larkner's book where he talks about the citizens of the town going through the stasi files and reading what had been reported about their family members about their friends about their neighbors uh... secretly kept reported to the authorities and maintained as a filing to be used against them the processing of that the fact that these cities populations began to receive these files that the stasi files now are a matter of public record you can go anyone can go and ask to see their files everything that the stasi has had about them and they're able to to review those and see them you can't see anybody else's but you can see your own and that's a way of respecting people's privacy on the other hand making sure that they're they're aware of what was what was done i think if anything the fact that the east germans spoke up that they protested that they demonstrated that there were people that were willing to be yes they expected to be beaten and and driven out back on the anniversary of the of the fortieth anniversary of the east germany the fact that they were able to see that they didn't step up and speak out in large numbers will help a bit in east these these former citizens of east germany looking back without a sense of shame has been done and and what they lived through so that might it might be alleviating that processing a bit the other thought that comes to mind is that it took about ten years for the films just leave them to under and goodbye linen that have become sense famous films for looking back and examining this time to be to come out and be produced and so maybe ten years from now for eight maybe eight years from now we'll see something about the the iraq war and and it's beginning and end i mean i think you could there are some places you could see it now i think it creeps up i think zero dark thirty is a complicated movie about the legacies of the invasion of afghanistan i don't think it's simple it's led to a lot of debate and consternation about what is it telling us what's its message and it's it's hard because you're dealing in memory and it's being reconstructed at all times and it's always under contention i think we will see more so you talked about how going like to the theater like makes us feel shame and people like in general now i don't think they go to the theater as much it's like because many years ago i think people would go like every other week or some things just like what they do do you think because people don't go to the theater as much like in person because we watch movies right we do that by ourselves at home but we don't go to the theater we don't expect we don't experience that kind of thing as much do you think that that could like that ties in kind of into how like maybe you said how iraq we don't feel we don't like feel shame as much something or like does that connect somehow if you feel like with a shame feeling shame more often yeah i think that's that's really interesting especially if you're thinking about in shakespeare's day that's you know we're fifteen nineties and that theater is this kind of communal activity in that way and so like yeah there's that collective action happening movie theaters would be an interesting place to do that attendance is dropping so i think they're that's maybe maybe as part of the worries that we're losing a collective experience of emotion i don't know about shame and modern theater certainly in the fifteen nineties was an idea that was the coursing through the public consciousness has a lot to do with religion and that religious history about the importance of kind of shame rituals and what it does to correct your virtues it i think you're maybe there's interesting point about our kind of the fear of retreat into personal devices and retreat into worlds that we're losing out on a collective experience that might be driving some of that anxiety although you know i'm i'm not sure i don't know about tying it to the shame for the iraq war and that kind of increasingly isolated viewpoint i don't know i go that far but i do think there are worries about what happens we're all in our individual worlds and not sharing things collectively there's something interesting there about what is lost although you know on the other hand people do say like other social media is causing all these outbursts of emotions they're just being seen and transmitted in different ways i will say that certainly the online world does not seem to be interested in shame uh... particularly the opposite right it's increased anger and defensiveness not regret uh... so i don't know i have to take more thought about new technologies happening today i think it's a tough question i have a question for professor ward so in your presentation you went a lot on the role of the church in divenda and so i want to pose the question that without the role of the church in east germany and the ability for these forums and meetings to occur do you think that the reunification of germany would have fundamentally been different and if so how answer i can give and the most i think to the point because they focused so consistently on non-violence and because they had these channels of communication with local and regional authorities that they were constantly monitoring and using i think the chance that east germany would have gone the other way and followed the Stalinist or Chinese examples and suppressed protest with violent means would have would have changed the memory we have of it what it would be like for the east germany for the former east germans living today and but i do not think it would have changed the ultimate end of the soviet union end of the cold war end of the east germany is a separate existence and the incorporation of the east germany into the west thank you professor ask one quick question hey kyle what about stand-up comedy isn't that our shared what what almost what what shakespeare's place we're doing for his community then isn't that kind of what we have now i cringe it it could be i don't know if we're fringing this depends on the comedian about where that feels and can be a social corrective and i was thinking too that yeah that might occur and there is a line of thought that actually we do have kind of the cancel culture fears that's often coated in language of shame think about it this kind of fear that the social corrective is happening too much i don't know if that's well you may be that is leading to this kind of a new kind of figure out what the political identity is that really is about is wrestling with the past which i think is definitely true about what my monuments mean for example civil war minds being great spot to do analysis of what she means and that context uh... we want them are not and forget rid of them what is that suggesting uh... the suggestion shame i think yeah that's always part of memory stand-up comedy yes it can do that among many other things their questions thank you professor pavetti and doctor ward for your instant for your insights on the traumas and she retained by europe and thank you to everyone who came today to join us for the session you are welcome to stay for the next session or continue on with your day analyst and he fled mic good afternoon my name is balmya de farrakhan this is my co-moderator he has been saki today we would like to welcome you to the fourth panel session for this for the summit today and it's our distinct honor to introduce our esteemed presenters dr laio goldstein and professor young look who our first presenter dr laio goldstein is a leading expert on maritime and new class security issues in asia he has over twenty years of experience as a research professor at the u.s. naval war college way also found it and let the china maritime studies institute and with all this he brings unheard expertise he has all the seven books on chinese strategy including the acclaimed meeting china halfway and is currently working on a book exploring china russia relations with proficiency in chinese and russian a p h g from primstein and degrees from johns hopkins s a i s and harvard goldstein's insights will surely enrich our discussion on the critical challenges and opportunities in the region over the next fifteen minutes dr goldstein will present his paper on the politics of memory and reconciliation between china and japan around the plot as he makes his way to the podium please uh... good afternoon uh... so uh... honor to be here uh... packet uh... norwich place very close to my heart and i'm learning so much here as i always do uh... particularly appreciate the interdisciplinary aspect here that uh... is seems to me is very important uh... as we talk about reconciliation i unfortunately i'll be talking probably less about art and architecture and such things uh... and uh... more about some of these dark deeds uh... which you know i hope that i won't uh... upset and offend too many people uh... when you talking about atrocities is is very difficult i think uh... for everyone including me well how did i arrive at this uh... issue well it's uh... it's something i've thought about a lot although i've i haven't written uh... terribly much on the subject uh... but uh... part of it was i was inspired very much by uh... as revogel who's a scholar at harvard who he passed away unfortunately very recently but his last uh... incredible work uh... focus sort of this tone on china japan relations that uh... came out just a couple of years ago and as i read through that i i became aware of so many things i didn't know about the relationship including by the way that china japan you know have a relationship that goes back thousands of years and uh... uh... you know this is a case where you cannot say something like well they've been fighting for thousands of years that's just not the case china japan have have gotten along very well and had uh... let's say very strong uh... relationship over time uh... you know one of you know very deeply you know shared uh... cultural ties and so forth so so really i think this book brings out that uh... that awful period in the uh... in world war two and just before that was really an anomaly but i i would also just share some experience that i had in germany here uh... i had studied a little german uh... before i got interested in asia and lived in this city essin a bit and there's this striking photograph i came upon while visiting the synagogue in essence of the photograph of the city of essin completely destroyed you know ninety nine percent destroyed but what's left standing is the synagogue somehow you know it's course extremely ironic that the synagogue would be the only building really left uh... but here you see it fully restored uh... in the in the photograph below and having gone through this uh... the restored synagogue you know i think it's it's very uh... touching as a jewish person to see just how germany has fully reckoned with its with its dark history and uh... this extremely important and it's just something that japan to my uh... understanding has has really not endeavored to do and and this is sad and uh... shameful uh... that's a word used on the last panel a lot i think it's definitely the case here now i just thought i'd show you quickly this uh... pie chart of world war two casualties which you know obviously show so the union vastly suffered uh... the most in world war two but china not too far behind uh... you can see germany japan are there too where's the united states well hardly there even it's uh... we're you know in in one of the small slivers uh... and i think looking at this chart you you and thinking hard about the modern world i do think this tells us something i mean it's in a way uh... tells us something about these two powers that is russian china which have quite a different view of history uh... and one that we are not really comfortable grappling with uh... but this shadow of world war two and it's awful devastation sort of hangs over i would say both the our relationship with russia but also our relationship with china too and in the china case it's it's not up to talk about now you know japan's predation are predate uh... world war two of course you know here's some uh... couple insights from my twitter feed where i'm often reporting about chinese news so please uh... have a look at that uh... feed and you'll see some things but i've actually visited these sites in northeast china and undoubtedly uh... even these earlier episodes uh... helped build a kind of narrative uh... which is quite quite sad and and awful in in china with that they build their nationalism against japan and of course it's maybe useful for chinese leaders i think we'll get into that but it's it's also uh... a sad reflection of uh... where china japan relations are uh... which is in a very bad place today i estimate uh... this is i think from uh... twenty twenty two twenty twenty one even uh... talking about uh... the chance of war between china japan over taiwan and this is really becoming i think acute and uh... it's the kind of thing that keeps me up at night uh... but people don't realize how closely this is tied to the history uh... both japan's occupation of taiwan but also the uh... you know these visits to the shrine and so forth uh... something deeply offensive to chinese and uh... if you watch chinese military news as i do almost every day you'll you'll see uh... warnings aimed at japan also the united states but at japan in particular are uh... almost a daily occurrence i would say uh... you know most people are just not aware of this which is rather disturbing uh... and uh... china really monitoring how japan is developing its military further uh... and you know here you can see this statement this is uh... you know from pl a daily japan june ball where they talk about they connect you know some of these recent developments and say well this is clearly not in line with the pacifist constitution right hypersonic weapons uh... so they continue to bring that up uh... and as they look at what how japan is going forward with basically preparing for a taiwan scenario uh... they are monitoring on this this on a daily basis and and you know to me as somebody who is watched this over a period of decades unfold you know i i you know i i don't think i could exaggerate how dangerous the current situation is here and and japan's role i think is is poorly understood uh... you know speaking of japan's role on taiwan from this book by vogal i i had not been aware as a china specialist about the some of the atrocities that japan carried out in taiwan itself when uh... it uh... was was governing taiwan uh... but you know you can read for yourself here you know ordering every person within five miles of the site of a uh... incident you can imagine that's a pretty bloody deed uh... and then you know i uh... i don't like to show you this picture below but uh... these are heads uh... collected after another such outbreak of violence this one undertaken really uh... concerning a uh... a minority group that had risen up against the japanese occupation and you know basically they beheaded all males over the age of fifteen in that area of taiwan so a lot of this is sort of conveniently forgotten and including by the taiwanese themselves because it's not uh... it's not convenient it's not in a good fit with modern thinking so we can talk about japan's legacy more but even you know most people are familiar with the non-jig massacre but even as you look at the details here uh... we see uh... non-jing as sort of the tip of an iceberg or part of a larger pattern that is largely not understood and neglected underestimated and horribly sad you know here's a comparison we've talked a lot about art here this is comparing the events at guernica uh... this is straight from the vogal book but saying you know well actually that was a really small incident compared to what happened several times worse and yet nobody you know i would challenge anybody in this room i was certainly not me knew about this uh... severe bombing of shanghai as early as nineteen thirty two you know it's it's very disturbing and these you know one can pile up these data points uh... i haven't made a career off that but it one could you know it's that it's that bad of course you know i i couldn't give this discussion without broaching non-jing you know horrible atrocity you know maturing probably to three hundred thousand deaths rapes this is the account of an american doctor who witnessed the events and i've been to non-jing to to see the memorial there uh... there's there's a couple of good movies about this actually that helped to tell the story one and one is about a nazi who act happened to be there and happened to save thousands of chinese lives which is an incredible story sort of like schindler's list but uh... anyway most of the story courses is a horrible one of a horrible atrocity but the point is this is not an exception but rather the rule of uh... what japan did in china uh... here's you know just again another glimpse of it this is you may be familiar with the do little raid that took place in uh... the spring of nineteen forty two where our uh... pilots uh... miraculously were able to bomb japan but few have thought about what happened to the chinese who helped to save the pilots they were actually punished their villages were wiped out to the smithsonian here says perhaps as many as a quarter million chinese were killed in the reprisals for that race a quarter million and this is in nineteen forty two so this is nothing to do with non-jing it's just part of this pattern that's largely not discussed and not documented in english very well you know i'm sorry it gets even worse this is uh... in the nineties we began to learn about this uh... unit seven three one this biological warfare outfit but they also did medical experimentation including uh... vivisection which i guess is the dissection on a live human which is about the most awful thing one can think of so don't like to show the slide like this but these are the facts and uh... again this also thought to approximate deaths just caused by this unit to be in the hundreds of thousands of chinese killed uh... so you know it's a long way of saying that horrible things were done i don't think it's adequately understood not even close uh... i've been looking for a long time to find sort of one repository for all of this information and i can't find that please enlighten me if you have that well what is japan done to apologize in in a word not much uh... there have been some words like this from the prime minister serious damage was done to me is is uh... doesn't cut it not even close you know most theorists would say that that japan gave over normalization they were able they were willing to normalize their ties with china that was sort of their you know kind of a tacit agreement that they would move on uh... so that's part of this here's the fiftieth anniversary of the war you know you can see the statement by the japanese prime minister doesn't even mention china uh... and it's regarded as a mistake sorry about that it's you know to me this is just so far from what needs to be done that it's you know i feel i feel kind of silly being up here explaining this because it's so obvious but uh... having spent some time in japan myself and seeing the kind of things that are set in japanese museums i'm afraid that there is a very little uh... actual uh... contrition it's certainly not institutionalized uh... in the way it needs to be although you know i think japanese people might grasp this uh... anyway you know some academic work has been done on this uh... lin's book you know i have to continuing to look at it but i i feel like she has uh... really focused on how states use you know manipulate basically memories for political ends and uh... she basically i think includes that it's not worthwhile the effort which which i think is a it's a shame that that uh... i mean to me i can't swallow that let's put it that way and there's this new book uh... that looks at that the judgment at tokyo i think this is quite important and but here again the focus is not on the fact that that justice was not was so incomplete which is obvious but rather that that i think bass focuses more on the importance of of these kind of trials but to me the trial was so far short from what is necessary uh... look here's something that i find encouraging and this is in in political science in my field of security studies actually this is the premier journal international security so i was quite encouraged to see this uh... kind of a suggestion i hey you know a lack of contrition uh... is part of the root cause of violence and this unrecognized victim hood breeds further conflict i mean to me it suggests a necessity to look at this again uh... and and uh... this author suggests a strategy of atonement and she says you know this is not just uh... we shouldn't just do this because it's the right thing but we should also do it because it's uh... it has major political benefits and folks you know i can't stress enough as somebody focuses on focuses on the security situation the asia pacific is very dicey china japan could go to war at any moment and we need new strategies besides deterrence i mean deterrence is one strategy and and i favor it in many respects but we need other strategies to to calm these tensions all right that's the timer saying i should wind up so uh... sure there are some counter arguments you know maybe all the people are dead from these instances so let's you know let's move on look it would damage the u.s japan alliance if we start being quite critical of japan uh... so there are all kinds of arguments here you know sure to china use this and manipulate these memories sure uh... so we'll you know happy to talk more about some of these counter arguments uh... but i don't think that they outweigh the the obvious need to to pursue this with more seriousness and uh... that means you know in my view kind of re-centering the history in the relationship it means pushing for that billy brunt moment i think that's i think it's so badly needed in china japan relations and uh... indeed you know i think the r-word yes reparation should be on the table you know still uh... absolutely sort of more concrete farm form of this and does china have some apologizing to do yes absolutely uh... here's these bells represent a very important instance where uh... we have begun to examine some of our history in the asia pacific that's quite dark in the philippines uh... i think more of this is needed uh... because the area is really a powder keg and uh... we should be thankful that pieces still rains in the asia pacific but we you know we we are on the edge of a precipice in my view so thank you very much for uh... hearing me out i'll welcome your questions your thoughts i was a very insightful presentation doctor go inside thank you our next presenter is doctor young look who he's an esteemed scholar with expertise in asian politics u.s. foreign policy and the complexities of memory and reconciliation in east asia and europe professor coup brings a wealth of knowledge to our discussion with a bachelor of arts from so gone university a master of arts in international affairs and a phd in political science from george washington university currently serving as the associate director of the peace and war center in norwich and the editor of the journal of the journal of peace and war studies he has authored numerous publications including the co-authored book politics in north and south korea professor coup's forthcoming work historical justice reconciliation in peace promises to shed light on the crucial role of agents in coming to terms with the past his insights into the denuclearization of north korea and intricate dynamics of the korean peninsula are highly sought after by government institutions a round of applause for professor coup as it gives his presentation over the next fifteen minutes thank you so much that goldstein uh... just to give us uh... very important to historical the background and what kind of atracious actions uh... japan uh... had done uh... vis-a-vis uh... china so or so that applies to the korean people and many other southeast asian the people so today um... the actually for this uh... the summit i wrote one paper the title of the politics of memory and reconciliation japan struggles to come to terms with the past vis-a-vis uh... korea i think the in the opening remarks i addressed this briefly but just uh... right will go to japan's colonial rule over korea from nineteen ten to nineteen forty five uh... ended almost eight like a decade ago but still uh... uh... korean people and japanese people they are contesting over the past history and this uh... conflictual interpretation of their past history affect current uh... governmental policies even just as i mentioned the u.s policy toward the age of pacific has been complicated because of these historical dispute between uh... japan and south korea so today the uh... in my paper and in this presentation i briefly touch upon why has it been so difficult for japan to address the past wrongs vis-a-vis uh... korea even just vis-a-vis china and other former victims uh... but uh... japan has been uh... just changing in its behavior toward past the wrongs over time so what has made japan to take action to uh... just address some issues uh... over past eight decades let me briefly touch upon the japan's past wrongs i mean dr school sign uh... briefly touch upon this but uh... especially vis-a-vis korea uh... during the colonial rule over almost a thirty six years period i mean japan brutally ruled uh... korean society so political suppression was always there and just uh... the south korea especially southern part of korea at the time they produced a lot of uh... rice and all those uh... crops so they try to exploit it uh... exploit those resources for uh... japan's society and then later on japan's uh... war efforts or so the a lot of korean people at the time they were banned uh... from using the korean language as well so the japan systematically tried to assimilate uh... korea korean culture into uh... japanese one or so uh... many of the korean people at the time they had a discrimination so uh... many millions japanese immigrants to korea at the time they had a lot of chances to get well educated but uh... just the original korean people they had some some of them they were able to get the elementary school and middle school high school education but most majority of them uh... they were discriminated discriminated against the japanese folks at the time particularly as you see the photo there so uh... comfort women issue so uh... from i think nineteen thirty seven to uh... nineteen forty five during the seven to eight years period japan systematically or uh... like a forcefully uh... tried to draft uh... the asian women uh... so the ranging from the fifty thousand to two hundred thousand women so eighty to ninety percent of those women were koreans so i think against the deal will i mean they were deceived to go to japan or other uh... warfront so uh... like japanese recruiters or even just the korean collaborators uh... with japan at the time state to save the most people but as we know at the time korean society was really poor so so many women they wanted to have better chances uh... to uh... make money for their families and all those things so they are deceived to go to japan and other part of the asia to make money but eventually when they got there so they got raped by uh... that's just uh... uh... private entrepreneurs there and eventually uh... sent to the military uh... come through in uh... uh... kind of stations so like uh... uh... under hellish conditions they had to serve japan soldiers sexually uh... so some according to some testimonies like a uh... twenty times thirty times they had to have sex with uh... uh... japan soldiers they forced to do that uh... daily it's a kind of miserable uh... conditions they had uh... so many people they died at the warfront or so uh... survivors they couldn't return to korea because korean society was very patriarchal so the social stigma was shame uh... as we already addressed uh... they couldn't return to uh... korean society so a lot of kind of miserable conditions they had or so about seven hundred twenty thousand korean people they were forced to to work for uh... japanese uh... companies like michi vishi and uh... michi that's kind of still companies under inhumane conditions right they had to work and some of them died and injured and all those kind of issues uh... so we had so uh... in my paper i tried to create some kind of concept of contrition or in different terms we can use penitence or apologies so like i tried to categorize uh... those tom into three like a deep cons contrition and shallow contrition no contrition so i am not gonna dive into the details but in terms of deep contrition uh... so the the perpetrator state that should provide clearly apologetic statement and then they provide uh... direct compensation to former victims and in history textbooks they have to provide like reflective view of history and even just the world memorials and world museums uh... they just a display artifact uh... to show uh... clear remorse but shallow contrition and no contrition as you see there should be difference like that so when we look at the over the past eight decades how japan has addressed uh... it's a past the wrong doings like this simply speaking three uh... time period in three stages from nineteen forty five to nineteen ninety one no contrition later on why why that happens uh... from nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety six uh... japan made some efforts japan's government even society made some government to provide apologetic statements to the uh... former victims and try to provide some uh... partial compensation to that just to even included some historical descriptions of com to women forced to labor and other uh... just a historical the misdeeds but starting in nineteen ninety seven japan i think like a best lead uh... which means that just uh... uh... the japan's addressing were coming to terms with uh... it's past misdeeds swung between the shallow contrition and uh... no contrition so uh... in my just a paper i in my analysis i try to analyze that issue using uh... this analytical frame up so uh... usually even just to be looking at the german case external pressure is really important so without external pressure in perpetrator states and society they are not voluntarily just trying to address their past wrong doings so so in looking at the uh... germany's like nineteen fifties and sixties historical kind of component the germany also was not very penitent or contrite in addressing them but in late nineteen sixties that changed a lot but the japan case until nineteen ninety one there was no strong pressure external pressure uh... in terms of handling and dealing with uh... japan's issues so external pressure like a coming from the victim state to see the society organizations or perpetrator states to see the site organizations and victim government as well so external pressure when the perpetrator states face faces uh... external pressure there should be some kind of uh... state society dynamics within perpetrator states like a conserved the society progressive society or just the conserved the ruling coalition and progress ruling coalition so depending on those combinations they're just the outcome of contrition should be different like a uh... deep shallow or no so states society dynamics in dealing with the past so i i just tried to created these two by two metrics in political science we love to create some concept love to create some kind of analytical frameworks uh... before giving the historical uh... narratives so uh... the simply speaking when in perpetrator state right when ruling coalition is there or so the society is uh... just i mean conserved ruling coalition meet with conserved dominant the society usually there is no contrition but on the other hand when progressive ruling coalition uh... control the society and then society is the dominant practice progressive dominance of society when when those two variable meet together i think the outcome uh... can be uh... just the deep contrition so i mean in this paper i uh... address that in more detail but let me move on uh... in terms of the like of the next four minutes i'm gonna talk about this uh... real issues so uh... from nineteen forty five to nineteen ninety one no contrition why because at the time so intensifying cold war politics is eventually right after the end of world war two the united states try to remilitarize and uh... democratize japanese society thoroughly when the cold war gaining was gaining the attraction uh... actually uh... u.s. policy occupation policy toward japan got reversed so from demilitarization to remilitarization uh... from the democratization to economy recovery especially america's main policy goal at the time was to check and balance to prevent the spread of soviet uh... coming in at the time so that changed the japanese attitude a lot or so uh... before the end of world war two right a lot of political leaders and bureaucrats who were running the wartime the japanese government actually many of them right some of them got purged uh... after the end of world war two but they continued majority of them they were able to continue their political status after the war so think about it those conserved people they don't they didn't want to address their past wrong doings because they can that they can damage their identity and political interest also prevalent sense of victimization among japanese uh... the public i mean uh... as we know so right before the end of world war two uh... hiroshima and nagasaki the atomic bombings also the allied forces just conducted very serious and harsh the aerial bombings of uh... over japan and many other cities so even uh... because of nuclear bombings uh... more than uh... one hundred thousand people got killed immediately uh... after that so many people suffered from the all those radiation exposure and everything even in allied the uh... aerial bombings over tokyo within one night more than one hundred thousand people got killed so what i'm saying is japanese people after the end of world war two they didn't know what a precious actions japanese soldiers had done in asia in china in southeast asian war front and toward the korean people but they had uh... they were they felt they were victims uh... so that kind of uh... victimization feeling uh... was uh... hindering uh... japan from addressing the its past wrong doings or so as i said no aizen to seriously raise the issue of japan's pessimistic because china was in a turmoil in the the communist revolution korea uh... as we know from nineteen fifty to nineteen fifty three uh... korea suffered from the korean war and then south korean case so up to nineteen eighty seven the korean society was the rule of dictatorships so i think until the end of uh... late nineteen eighties right uh... just uh... no external pressure to japan in addressing all those issues but in nineteen ninety starting in nineteen nineties uh... after the end of cold war that changed as a trip korean society got democratized and just a lot of korean civil society organizations they began raising company many issues and forced labor issues a lot of history tax book issues and yes korean shrine and war memorial issues and everything so korean the organizations and then progressive japanese civil organizations also supported uh... those transnational company movement to transnational history tax movement and all those things so responding to that in early nineteen nineties thankfully japanese society's ruling coalition in politics was a transitioning to kind of progressive uh... political dynamics so those two got mad and then shallow contrition uh... just that we witnessed just one minute let me use and just in but starting in nineteen ninety seven i mean japanese society right the long ruling the conserved the party liberal democratic party retake retook the power and then just to continue to rule japanese society until present time except for two thousand nine to two thousand twelve time period what i'm saying is that after nineteen ninety seven japanese society japan's political ruling coalition is very very conserved and japanese society is conserved dominant society so it is really difficult for the external actors and even just the progressive japanese folks within japan push japanese government and society to delve into these historical issues so bottom line is that it's uh... uh... currently ongoing issues and a lot of korean people especially left side korean people they have still historical antagonism toward uh... japan so uh... thank you so much and just in korea sessions we can address these topics a little more thank you thank you professor cool will now open the floor for questions if anyone has questions will ask you move to either side of the room to ask hello my question is for uh... professor goldstein so you mentioned shinzo aze it was on your twitter feed uh... so his grandfather nabu suki uh... kinsi was also a prime minister from nineteen fifty seven to nineteen sixty he was also a class a war criminal who was not charged tried or convicted by the u.s. after world war two for his actions in manchuria and i was wondering if you can uh... talk about the influence u.s. the u.s. had had on japan's projection of its actions in world war two as thanks for the excellent question i think you you bring up another uh... yet another side of this which is uh... you know i i've maybe neglected here a bit and i guess we're with maybe that one of the themes of this uh... discussion is is shame but uh... unfortunately uh... i think as professor cool mentioned also part of the reason why japan's crimes are not really well understood either in japan or or elsewhere in the world is that uh... you know we had substantial reason to move on quickly right and professor cool i think mention we we we had this imperative to to get japan on its feet and get it moving in a direction that that uh... you know that we saw as positive which meant you know uh... absolutely preventing any kind of soviet uh... uh... influence in japan or uh... you know communist infiltration which meaning which meant we we needed a kind of cohesive japan a democratic japan a pro-american japan and not one that was uh... uh... tied up in this history so uh... and and by the way that also meant a a re-armed japan and although all japan's defense uh... establishments are called self defense uh... units uh... you know trust me they have a first-class military uh... and and perhaps that's that's right you know as a quote normal country but i think a lot of countries around including china uh... have real questions about this uh... but unfortunately you know as you you alluded in your good question that that the part of this is is sort of our complicity our our willingness sort of not to uh... you know press uh... japan on the historical issues so so you know i think this is quite regrettable and abey himself uh... you know i i would commend parts of his diplomacy as as kind of skillful but but uh... china japan relations have been on a kind of downward trajectory uh... for really last twenty or thirty years so it's it's how to arrest that trajectory and change it uh... it's a good question i'm i have you know some of my ideas involve history i i think leaning on the historical uh... issue i think japan could quite quickly turn turn this around if it if if there was some kind of political will there so but but again a lot of people bring up well then you're going to jeopardize the u.s. japan alliance which is seen as kind of sacred uh... look i i'm i favor the alliance as well i think it is important for asia pacific security but we need to be open to other ideas as well uh... not instead of but along with thanks for the question thank you we'll take one from the side of the room thank you very much and uh... thank you for your presentations this is something i really don't know a lot about and i really appreciated being uh... enlightened on how they're wrestling with memory in that part of the world i'm a historian so i'm going to ask a history question i guess just fundamentally for both of you uh... how does japan present its own history in the war to its own people when i when i look at some of the subjects ideal with within historical memory in america i think there's really kind of three categories there's outright denial no the rape of nanking didn't happen it just nothing like that uh... there's minimization which is all well bad things happened but it was not to the level that it's been portrayed and then there's relativism which is well bad things happen in in nanking but the chinese also did bad things here here here do any of those categories really apply to japan have you know how do they tell this story to their own people yeah let me uh... briefly touch upon this thank you for a very uh... enlightening question uh... just as far as i know i think during the kodo period uh... i think in japanese society the progressive civil society organizations especially the teachers union was really uh... strong uh... so that's just uh... they made uh... big impact on historical narratives and all those things but obviously under the rule of uh... liberal democratic party they didn't really want to incorporate those uh... just a reflective view of history uh... in history textbooks and all official historical uh... narrative but um... the one i can say is that after the end of uh... kodo war so in nineteen nineties as i briefly touch upon that when japan society when japan society faced external pressure coming from especially the south korean civil society organizations i think japanese government they tried to incorporate uh... certain descriptions of historical wrongdoings in history textbooks so that was really big uh... advancement in terms of japan's history policies starting in nineteen ninety seven when the uh... especially the conservative and nationalist forces uh... within japanese politics and society they witnessed the inclusion of those comfortably many issues in into textbook they got mad and they just launched the so-called historical revisionist movement so the starting in nineteen ninety seven i think japanese society and political uh... realms has been turning to very conservative directions i think unfortunately right now as far as i know many japanese history textbooks they don't talk about those company many issues and those things anymore so it's a really sad unfortunate kind of uh... advancement thank you yeah i think unfortunately i think we may be going backward here i mean look at some level i do think we need to have some japan specialist here who you know i i just don't uh... in my scholarship i don't i don't really delve into uh... where japan is is uh... is going on this but but i just say anecdotally uh... and by the way i i didn't talk about comfort women in china i mean to my knowledge it was uh... may have been on the scale or exceeded the scale of what you know these horrible crimes perpetrated against korean women why do we know more about the korean case here because koreans have spoken up loudly i'm glad about it i mean in other words they've led the way but i think you know china's kind of been shy about raising these issues i don't know partly probably because of humiliation uh... but also partly because they fear you know well what would happen to japanese investment and things like that so they don't wanna you know they're i think a little more anxious to uh... kind of raise these things but just answer the question more you know i've spent i spent one uh... uh... uh... one day in a japanese history museum this was attached to the yasakuni shrine so it's not just some museum it's one of the most important war memorials they have and uh... i'll tell you i was i came out shaking out of that museum you know you learn in that museum that roosevelt started the war against japan that's it was roosevelt's doing conspiracy uh... and that what they were doing in china was actually a counter-terrorism operation so uh... it's and this was in english actually i don't read japanese so uh... it's it's shocking you know truly shocking uh... and and the museum is stunning i mean they don't have any shortage of funding they have big cavernous rooms like this with with exalting you know uh... japan's military achievements and their martyrs so yeah again uh... that's anecdotal so i have not done an exhaustive search of of tokyo's museums and memorials and whatnot i have so i'm not ready to go that far but somebody better i mean and i haven't seen it you know so i'm not sure why scholars seem to be american japanese i don't know they seem pretty uninterested in this uh... subject which is disturbing thank you very much for the sake of time i know everybody has a lot of questions but we'll take one more question for this session thank you for a question from professor goldstein with this issue uh... you mostly focused on china as one country and even in your pie chart you showed the communist flag but when you're referring to taiwan isn't like i think a key issue about china being two countries right now and currently how does um... japan reform with the main communist china which currently does the same colonial practices toward the Uighurs mongolians the man choose the tibetans that japan did in its past how does it reform or reconcile with the government's that's committing the same crimes yeah i mean it's like this is a good question and china has done some truly awful things and is doing awful things today as you point out and uh... it's important to raise those issues um... for the record you know china does not consider taiwan another country or they don't consider it to china's whatever you think or i think that's what they think uh... which is important uh... but uh... look uh... look a common response to this kind of presentation that i made is look uh... whatever you think about japan and china now did much worse than any any you know he killed more people than anybody so why we even talk about this well i i that is a certain perspective as a scholar of international relations i guess my approach on this is to say look americans we americans we've done horrible things to each other we've killed each slaughtered each other in huge numbers right i was very glad for the presentation of the civil war anderson bill and all these things don't really welcome the japanese or chinese telling us how to sort out our issues between americans and uh... and we have a lot of issues well in this case i also think there's a there's just a difference between you know when china whatever you conceive of china whether it includes to bed or not i don't know i mean that's a question for them to figure out i guess uh... and they are but but but i'm saying that sort of one uh... set of issues but then these international issues you know that's what i think we are kind of focusing on here they cut very deeply and and here's the the practical reason whatever china does with the eager we get it's you know it's terrible and we may feel awful about it but it is not going to cause world war three the issue i'm talking about is going to cause world war three and as americans you should be concerned about that so i'm just a kind of practical person and that's what i'm worried about so one last comment i wanna make is if i may just one minute uh... just to today uh... that goes down and i uh... to a certain extent like a best the japan and japan is uh... the politics politicians and society probably uh... if concept of political leaders in japan and opinion leaders uh... here that here this kind of uh... topics and talks they would hate us so one anecdotal uh... story i can share says that when i was a kind of presenting my research in uh... tokyo at the time i tried to compare the japan's policy history policy with uh... germanese uh... history policy and then uh... one of the audience was uh... the japanese uh... kind of governmental official uh... definitely he was a conservative uh... the folks and then he raised the hand and then he just countered my argument that why do you try to compare japan with uh... germany uh... we are totally different uh... countries and different kind of historical experience we have don't make that kind of uh... comparisons so that was really uh... just uh... uh... shocking kind of uh... instant to me but anyway the japan made uh... definitely some efforts to address uh... that these issues that in today's talk uh... we didn't talk about two thousand fifteen company in agreement uh... so dot japan i'll try to create uh... fund to uh... provide compensation to the former victims and all those things but the korean victims of many of them and uh... their supporters and supporting organizations didn't accept the reluctant reluctant compensation reluctant apologies and all those things so much more details uh... should be in this kind of discussions thank you fantastic uh... over the last fifty minutes we have engaged in a rich and insightful discussion today examining the intricate dynamics surrounding historical reconciliation in northeast asia our distinguished panelists have illuminated the immense challenges but also potential paths forward when it comes to achieving justice closure and lasting peace between nations still grappling with legacies of colonialism war and human rights abuses let's give a well-deserved round of applause to our esteemed panelists so uh... starting at three p.m. uh... we're gonna have uh... final session the students presentations for brilliant uh... students they will uh... make a presentation so about their research papers so about russia china and even american uh... just uh... civil war and all those things please just uh... continue to join our sessions thanks again that's right i did and you're back for more that's kind of a round two hello welcome uh... my name is emi woodbury tees i'm the associate dean for interdisciplinary curriculum with the college of arts and sciences as well as the chair of the department of global humanities and an associate professor of english welcome to the fifth annual peace and war summit i hope that many of you have had the opportunity to attend sessions throughout the day and have gained new knowledge and perspectives as a result if this is your first session i'm glad you made it and promise that it will not disappoint as we have four outstanding student panelists speaking to you this afternoon these student scholars will share their research on different topics related to this year's theme of war reconciliation and memory as you listen to these insightful papers i encourage you to consider the connections as well as the incongruencies intentions produced between them recalling comment on the colors message from his keynote this morning we gained new perspectives into our collective histories and ourselves when we seek to make connections with the stories and experiences of others before i introduce our first panelist i want to know the structure of this afternoon session each speaker will present for ten minutes the presentations will then be followed by discussions by doctors michael andrew and michael themberg of our history and political science department faculty we will then have time for what i hope will be a robust question and answer session featuring you our audience members so without further delay i would like to welcome our first panelist michael cathy who is a senior political science major from clement new hampshire with a minor in spanish in his free time he enjoys skiing in the winter and hiking and camping in the summer he will present the shift in china's support of russia in the russian ukrainian war thank you doctor would be a tease uh... welcome everyone thank you for coming so as we all know to eat about two years ago russia launched a full-scale invasion of ukraine their alleged goals of the special military operation where to denotify ukraine however more accurate descriptions of their goals were one of iridentism to regain their former uh... soviet spirit influence within eastern europe and revisionism and attempt to push back uh... against organizations like nato and any other organization that represents the western liberal order now my research question for this paper was why has china gradually grown support russia after initial hesitation to either fully support them or condemn russia's invasion of ukraine starting off i want to talk about evidence for china's shifting policy immediately after the invasion china was careful not to overtly favor either side in the conflict china maintained its rhetoric as a supporter of territorial sovereignty in this case ukraine but did so by tacitly blaming the u s for taking an aggressive cold war stance regarding russia and ukraine this argument pretty much sums up all of china's diplomatic overtures towards the ukrainian situation in the immediate months following the invasion the gist of it is pretty much we do not support the war but the war is primarily the responsibility of certain nations who have a history of propagating color revolutions and expanding their neo imperialist ideals logically they're talking about the united states and other western nations recently chinese and russians officials have met on multiple occasions and discuss furthering strategic partnerships between the two nations in the realms of their economies joint political overtures and their joint security partnership these overtures are mostly for show and mostly diplomatic however there has been some hard evidence uh... indicating china's shifting policy but there's also been the first kind of backtrack of it and explain why china has been hesitant choose either side has mostly chosen hedging street strategy should china fully supported russia's invasion of ukraine it would likely suffer the same section sanctions russia faced from the international community which could destabilize the chinese community as i'm sure most of you know recently the chinese stock market uh... suffered a crash and about their stocks are about of their values what they were last year additionally china would lose its global reputation as a champion of the sovereignty of weaker nations which is a key selling point for china's international investment and development ambition ambitions primarily in the global south for the belt and road initiative however given the sanctions imposed on russia after the invasion china has had the opportunity to kind of test the waters and see how their own economy would react to such sanctions and what they can do what changes they can implement in the future to safeguard against the negative effect of sex sex sanctions uh... previously scholars have agreed that the chinese economy is mostly capable of weathering western sanctions this has the effect of kind of pushing china further into russia's corner uh... as the more the war drags on and the more the sanctions drag on the more confidence china gains in their ability to weather sanctions and to support russia more and more on the other hand even if their economy can't weather the sanctions that also pushes china into a corner with russia uh... as they would need a economic partner who is not a part of the global economy and the western led uh... global economy kind of a stable relationship that they can rely on and that they can back on given their kind of aggressive stance and aggressive ambitions in the global market so my independent variables for this uh... paper kind of the reasons why i'm explaining how and why china has shifted their policy uh... in the past two years of the invasion our first public sentiment and elite sentiment regarding nato china's geopolitical reality and finally china's economic relationship with russia now starting off with sentiment about nato uh... in april of twenty twenty three finland became the thirty first member of nato recently sweden has also joined uh... the treaty organization this shows the enhanced resolve of european nations and their fear and their desire to join nato uh... and to join a global uh... a regional security organization to defend against uh... perceived russian aggression and to defend against russian aggression additionally immediately after the invasion it was recruited by the pure research center that american sentiment about nato about the organization was at an all-time high since they started recording next china's geopolitical reality china's been careful to avoid any parallels uh... between ukraine in taiwan uh... they don't they want to maintain their image especially in the global south as a protector of state sovereignty from larger more imperialistic forces however they don't want that same uh... rhetoric kind of backfire on them in regards to taiwan however the taiwan situation is an important facet to consider giving china's shifting attitudes towards russia as chinese support towards russia and the invasion is kind of like an investment for the future for china right china views that if we tacitly and strategically support russia now and should the situation in taiwan or korea or anywhere in the south china see escalate that support of russia could come in handy uh... to china in the future uh... and that could form what could be uh... a much more ironclad strategic partnership whereas now it's mostly a limited strategic partnership uh... and finally china's economic relationship with russia uh... the war in ukraine has had negative consequences for the chinese economy that is only adding on to the negative consequences to the chinese economy that covid-19 had already imposed on their economy starting in twenty twenty china has pursued a more aggressive investment in development strategy among the global economy particularly investing in infrastructure and development projects in the global south uh... and that combined with the covid-19 situation has left the chinese economy relatively volatile and vulnerable and like i said earlier an increased level of strategic partnership economically with russia uh... could kind of be a hard-backed uh... security and safeguard uh... to protect the chinese economy given this aggressive economic stance so to conclude as of now china's relationship with russia can be best be described as a limited strategic relationship china is hedging their bets however now the pros of supporting china sporting russia more and more outweigh the cons so what does this mean from an american perspective right from an american perspective it's my belief that we need to view this in the realm of what we can and what we can't control we can't control the fact that china has essentially wedded itself uh... to mahskow's revisionist point of view and irredentist point of view that's the consensus view among scholars we can't control that we also can't control the lessons china is learning particularly on how to handle and safeguard against sanctions and particularly about what we as the united states will do in a situation with russia and ukraine as you all know the u.s. is extremely has extremely hesitant to provide military support towards russia given fears of escalation between nuclear powers that could prove uh... a similar lesson to be learned later on in taiwan uh... i think we must be wary of china and their increased level of support uh... for russia however i don't think we should take the united states it would be in the best interest in the united states to take an entirely hawkish uh... standpoint i think there are still areas in which uh... there can be reproachment between china and the united states particularly in the arctic which is a less volatile uh... regional security situation thank you michael uh... let me switch gears here i'd now like to call up august query area who is a senior political science and studies in war and peace major he is the headquarters company commander in the core of cadets and will be commissioned as a transportation officer in the u.s. army after graduation august participates in norwich's campus corollers and is a member of the national political science honor society he presented during the twenty twenty three peace and war summit on the threat of nuclear weapons and today he will talk to us about the donbas separatist movement thank you ma'am and good afternoon everyone it's an honor to appear on the student panel of the peace and war summit for my second year this project originally began in professor andrew's revolution and forces of change course back in the fall twenty twenty two semester i was presented with the opportunity to expand on my research for professor roberts costs of war course this past semester i want to expand on the topic of the donbas separatist movement in the context of self-determination as a cost of war in this presentation i'll cover the transformation and the globalization of the donbas separatist movement with its origins following ukraine's independence from the soviet union the remobilization of the movement in reaction to the euro my don and the movement's ideological framework i'll then discuss the entry of foreign fighters into the war beginning in twenty fourteen and russia's engulfing of the movement following its invasion in twenty twenty two global attention to the conflict in ukraine began in the weeks leading up to russia's invasion on february twenty fourth twenty twenty two bloodshed in the region regarding this conflict started back in twenty fourteen with the my don revolution and the declarations of independence of the donetsk and luhansk people's republics as well as russia's annexation of the crimian peninsula fighters were worldwide then flocked to the conflict motivated by ideology purpose the thrill of combat and connection to the land although donbas separatist sentiment uh... widely exploded following russia's intervention these sentiments existed prior to russia's support for the separatist republics identity politics russophobic sentiments and political moves that impacted east in ukraine pushed inhabitants to desire separation from kiev but russia hijacked this movement for their strategic interests to the harm of the donbas people globalize the conflict in ukraine from a domestic independence movement to a pawn in the struggle between east and west self-determination has been tossed aside separatist sentiments in the donbas originate with the international movement of donbas founded in november nineteen ninety and active throughout the nineties it opposed unity with ukraine and favored independence for the donbas region the movement united minors and regional elites against kiev's policies that caused poor economic conditions and attempted to ukrainianize the donbas the movement emphasizes donbas's unique cultural identity at least it's claimed cultural identity as home to dozens of people throughout history separatist sentiment laid dormant from two thousand from two thousand three until the year of my dawn of twenty thirteen the movement's spiritual successor founded a democratic uh... the donets peoples republic in twenty fourteen the year my dawn protests were triggered in november twenty thirteen by then president and you could get denying the ukrainian parliament's approval of an association agreement with the european union opting in instead to strengthen ties with russia's eurasian economic union the protests were violently dispersed which triggered a wave of riots that culminated in the my dawn revolution of february twenty fourteen and the removal of you know kiev's from power russia annexed crime in march of twenty fourteen which helped fuel the confidence of separatist groups in the donbas who voted in april of twenty fourteen to establish the dpr and the lpr resulting in armed conflict between government forces and separatist militias the minsk agreement stabilized the frontline which changed little until russia's invasion in february of twenty twenty two since its independence three of the seven ukrainian presidential elections have seen an identifiable split between east and west these elections proved to those in eastern ukraine in their eyes that kiev and the rest of western ukraine were unwilling to cooperate for a peaceful unity that would recognize the sovereignty of the different cultural groups within ukraine's borders the rise of ukrainian nationalism triggered a paranoia amongst the separatist groups in donbas which was aimed back towards kiev who they feared were trying to subjugate them the donbas separatist movement is a unique sort of populism based on a cross-cultural civic nationalism which incorporates the cultures of the multiple historic occupiers of the region as well as economic dependence on both agriculture and industrialization when the conflict first broke out in twenty fourteen foreign fighters immediately flocked to ukraine joining both sides of the war they're motivated by ideology, thrill and in search of a sense of purpose there is no single defining characteristic of the foreign fighters both sides had fighters with anti-fascist or communist ideologies they had nationalists, racial supremacists and a variety of faiths, cultures and nationalities one example is texas in the bottom picture a southerner with a deeply communist ideology he dons a cowboy hat emblazoned with a hammer and sickle he speaks russian with an extreme southern twang and likes to entertain his comrades with his guitar and songs about the war laced with profanity in other parts of the world the italian far-right has been highly divided over the war volunteers aligning with the ruling right-wing coalition have fought for the donbas while those hailing from the neo-fascist movement from the kassapound party fight alongside the asal battalion in ukraine some fighters have even admitted to having fought for both sides of the conflict at different points in the war many of the stories espoused by these foreign fighters in ukraine evoke memories of mercenaries in the cold war and specifically the southern african bush wars many of the fighters both during the cold war and now face similar struggles of betrayal frustration and anger focused towards their home governments these stories have helped enable the initial stages of the globalization of the conflict in eastern ukraine the presence of the foreign fighters forced their home governments to begin taking stances on the conflict including laws forbidding involvement in foreign conflicts as mercenaries the increasing number of ideologies involved in the fight meant more global attention on the conflict to determine ideological stances this rising international focus set the stage for russia's invasion in 2022 the donbas felt they were pushed to separatism by both kiev and moscow from kiev they were labeled terrorists smacked with economic blockades by military force and were told that having a weak ukrainian identity would no longer be acceptable from moscow they saw the annexation of kramia additional manpower and material support as demonstration of russia's power at least what we thought was power back then thus the donbas turned toward moscow which came at the price of their self-determination despite the original separatist intent to establish independent regions the 2022 referendums in the separatist republics allegedly voted to be fully integrated into the russian federation and russian officials have replaced all of the domestic leadership within donbas the donbas separatist movement began with a genuine desire for independence and self-determination they have the right to self-determination like all other people but the endless global struggle for hegemony has dragged them in as pawns with both the west and the east expressing hypocrisy in their actions and policies denying self-determination and independence the greatest tragedy of the war in donbas is the refusal of self-determination by both eastern and western powers for both the donbas and ukraine as a whole no matter who wins the end the donbas is already lost thank you august sorry i'm a mac user ingmo i've lost the uh... technical problems we're back uh... i'd now like to uh... call up kaleb hogan who is a current senior criminal justice and political science double major with a minor in pre-law kaleb is a member of the core of cadets and has spent time with the mountain cold-weather company practicing practical mountaineering skills upon graduation kaleb plans on pursuing a good graduate degree from norwich in international relations while working full-time within the federal government he will present his research on china and russia's use of transnational repression thank you good afternoon everyone thank you for having me and thank you for being here uh... today i'm gonna be presenting my research done on china and russia's use of transnational repression specifically within the united states i'll first be going over what transnational repression is and why it's important important for us to look at and understand uh... the methods at which these two nations utilized transnational repression and then comparing the two and how they differ and compare first what is transnational repression transnational repression is crime conducted internationally by foreign nations on citizens located outside of their boundaries and their sovereignty the fb i definition is when foreign government stock intimidate assault people within the united states this is an obvious concern to us and our freedoms given to the people within our confines because it inhibits their ability to practice their fundamental rights of protests and freedom of speech the four nations typically utilize transnational repression as a way to silence dissidents and to stop them from speaking out against uh... specifically the p r c or the russian federation it is important for us to understand this because we need a way to combat this in order to preserve the rights that we guarantee to all of our citizens and all people located within united states now looking at the methods of transnational repression i will be going over four methods first being surveillance this is when opposing governments will throw advanced technology or human sources watch and track foreign citizens living abroad the first is to do digital methods in which through open source intelligence they can look specifically through social media to gain information on individuals they can gain informations regarding their family who are located abroad who they surround themselves about with and most importantly what they're saying social media is an open book to discover who is talking out against these foreign governments and who they should target to try to stop them from talking out in these ways social media allows for them to easily find this information without having to look very hard it's out there on the internet for them to find the second is through fishing scams this is where china or russia will send scams emails messages on social media or other sources of uh... fishing scams in order to persuade them to give them information about themselves their family or whatever information they'd be seeking the second form of surveillance we see is through uh... human sources this is when their actual uh... intelligence agents or representatives of these governments located in country who are conducting human surveillance uh... upon citizens located within the united states uh... which will go into more in detail discussing each country and how they conduct transnational repression second is to prescribed threats these are the most severe types of threats that can be conducted through transnational repression and this is where the line of whether this is transnational repression or more extreme crimes is blurred through assassinations assaults disappearances violent force renditions done to silence individuals uh... this is when they send operatives into the united states to conduct these sort of crimes against people within our boundaries these are the most extreme and the most alarming to people who are speaking out about these governments this is the far end of the spectrum of transnational repression third method is known as coercion by proxy and what this means is it is threatened violence or physical violence on family or sanctions against individuals within the territorial jurisdiction of the united states uh... for the purpose of repressing a target outside of our jurisdiction this is typically done uh... mostly with the weger population in china where if we have speaking out uh... chinese citizens located within the united states they'll often receive a message or a threat that's uh... prc will harass uh... or take their family members into camps labor camps located in china this is a threat against their family as a way to coerce them into not talking out about this government or to gain intelligence uh... or whatever their end goal is in this scenario fourth method is through mobility court controls and course return this is the least common because it requires uh... these people to be the outside of the united states where they're unprotected this limits these individuals ability to travel internationally and freely move about the world this can be done by various methods including uh... invalidating passports extraditions if they go into a country where they can make that exchange or anyway at which the country's can stop them from moving about the world internationally however this is the least seen within the united states because when they're located here is one of the most protected first looking at china's use of transnational repression they mostly do it through surveillance and course and by proxy uh... as stated previously the uber population in china is an easy way for them to use coercion by proxy by threatening to put their family in labor camps or uh... harass those individuals put them in jail uh... having a family member threatened is an easy way to silence someone located outside of their jurisdiction and it's also easy to perform because it can be done simply through social media or digital means this is very also very difficult for the united states to combat because a simple message given to someone uh... is difficult for us to pin a crime upon and it also prevents them from wanting to speak out about it they receive a threat that they know could very very possibly be performed because they do have family located in china uh... there these individuals are much less likely to speak out about this and the second is through surveillance there has been many cases of what is known as chinese police stations located throughout the united states these police stations are almost spy centers where the chinese can use these centers to surveil harass threaten and try to silence people throughout the united states most notably uh... there are have been multiple cases of chinese police stations in uh... new york city have been released and shown by the federal bureau of investigation uh... these other locations have also and shown to house uh... chinese groups who are directly related to uh... the p r c and have gone to trial for surveilling and harassing american citizens in our home country next looking at russia russia most notably uses prescribed threats they do so on the extreme and of what you would look at the transnational repression scale being the most extreme forms of it uh... assassinations most of these assassinations are not typically done within the united states or at least the ones we are able to or we have evidence of uh... there have been multiple across europe of them silencing distance of the russian federation uh... and there is countless in russia of that happening within the united states there have been multiple assassination attempts that have been found and released to the media however currently there is very slim to know assassination uh... success stories by the russian government within the united states however based on evidence in europe along with the attempted assassinations in the united states it's safe to assume that this would be their main form of transnational repression the other is through espionage and although this is not directly known as transnational repression this is where the lines slightly blur and it moves into a different category they're directly related in how they are conducted uh... when they use spy agents to try to intimidate or harass politicians within the united states which there are cases of that happening uh... that directly falls into the category of transnational repression being conducted through espionage which is why i included it here comparing the two they each have shown their willingness to commit transnational repression in the united states and throughout europe as well china on the one hand is much more direct and does so much more obviously having police stations located within the country uh... is a clear intrusion upon our sovereignty and is a way for them to try to silence those speaking out against china and it is done in a way that is not trying to be hidden uh... the messages being sent uh... through the surveillance digital means clearly is done to silence these individuals and is done in a way that is not trying to be uh... hidden or trying to be discreet russia on the other hand chooses much more carefully and is more on the extreme and uh... when they choose to use transnational repression done through assassination attempts or other extreme methods are much more successful based on the fact that there is less it is less known it is not in the media and there's less evidence for them however the cases that are known are on that extreme and so comparing the two china is much more blunt and is less has less care of being found out about it because there's not much that the united states can do about it russia on the other hand is much more discreet and one thing i would like to note is that this presentation is only being done about china and russia however there are multiple other countries who are known to commit transnational repression within the united states and throughout the world iran's saudi arabia are just a couple to name also conduct this type of crime therefore it is important for our legislator legislatures and law enforcement to be aware of this as it is very infrequently talked about crime but it has a large impact on our american citizens and the people living within the united states who expect to be given the freedoms that we expressively give in our constitution and should be given to all americans foreigners living in the united states thank you kaila and finally i'm very sorry forgive my here it is got it here it is to keep going alright everyone's loving that's right this is so fun okay here we go okay last but not least is eithan trask a senior pursuing a degree in studies in war and peace and a minor in religious studies representing norwich abroad trask spent five weeks in pristina kosovo as part of the frederick c kuny peace and conflict summer immersion program here he learned firsthand about united nations mandated missions peace operations and post-conflict reconstruction throughout former ugas lavia he additionally completed an internship in washington dc with the united states of america vietnam war commemoration he intends to scare carry his skills interests and experiences into the intelligence community post graduation today he will talk with us about confederate perspectives on the first world war thank you ma'am and thank you everyone for coming today we've heard some fantastic presentations from my colleagues here on russia china and ukraine and legacy of war uh... throughout each of those nations and right now i'd like to focus on united states and kinda bring our focus inward on the legacy of war here at home so today i'll be presenting on confederate perspectives on the first world war and how subsequent shifts in identity led to reconciliation for many southerners as americans over the past fifty years the legacy of the vietnam war has shaped how we as americans perceive war and how our soldiers perceive themselves looking back over a century the same can be said regarding the impact of the civil war on world war one which took place in mere forty nine years apart in this study i compare the combat conditions between the later years of the civil war in the early years of world war one and dive into how these similarities and differences are reflected in post war confederate media as will be shown a common cause and a little bit of time were able to quickly and fundamentally shift the confederate perspective primary information was collected from the post civil war periodical the confederate veteran magazine is national based publications on minimum readership in the tens of thousands and would come to be adopted by major organizations such as the united confederate veterans the united daughters of the confederacy and the sons of confederate veterans selection of news articles memoirs and entertainment written by confederate veterans and their families documents what they thought about the world around them and more importantly what they thought about themselves for many readers it served to keep them connected to the confederate cause post reconstruction some key secondary literature prove vital to putting the findings of the study into context first and foremost was doctor anthony saunders trench warfare eighteen fifty two nineteen fifty which discusses the aspects of warfare that veterans of both wars with a face going beyond trenches into the introduction of hand grenades automatic weaponry and sharpshooters furthermore doctor steven soda grins the great weight of responsibility dives in on many confederate narratives up to and around this time and serves as a sufficient baseline for studying the social impact of confederate media between both wars the first recorded instance of trench warfare in the civil war was a mere three months after the outbreak of the war in the first battle of bull run in eighteen sixty one though its use was not extensive later war battles in the overland and petersburg campaigns were much more reminiscent of world war one with trench line stretching miles on end and many of the same methods and tactics that were seen fifty years later the eighteen sixty four battle of cold harbor outside richman virginia was a devastating defeat for generals grant and me it is their forces charge general ease trench lines over a six-mile front the defending confederates were able to inflict four times the casualties they took and this battle highlighted the supremacist static warfare over open battle further the nine-month-long siege of petersburg virginia was one of the most traumatic battles of the war with poor conditions in the winter leading many to die from disease if not desert to the opposing side besides the trench lines sniper fire and artillery strikes new innovations were being made in the field of hand grenades and the gatling gun saw some of its first usage in the trenches of petersburg the importance of all this context cannot be overstated these are just some of the many comparable experiences that confederate veterans would uh... hold on not only the stories of from the front lines of world war one but but any personal experiences to follow well it must be said that many soldiers did not experience these conditions many did postwar confederate veterans saw solace within each other forming organizations of up to a hundred sixty thousand members to preserve their community and legacy participation in these organizations was seen as a respectable thing and a way of showing one support for the cause even after defeat many veterans would then go to reunions at the expense of both their physical health and financial ability narratives such as the lost cause took root at these reunions and succeeded in shifting the physical loss of the war into an ideological victory for the confederates uh... claiming that the confederacy had successfully fought for liberty and democratic principles against an authoritarian and unjust system meanwhile they would downplay the role of slavery in secession and in war an intellectual fascination with the south and the confederacy followed suit the lost cause took root in academia not only at home in schools like johns hopkins university where new southern history courses were added but abroad notably the royal military academy sandhurst studied stonewall jackson almost obsessively from the end of the civil war up until world war one textbooks on the history of jackson's campaigns were an integral part of their education in nineteen ninety eight colonel george fr henderson wrote stonewall jackson and the american civil war more colloquially known as the life of stonewall jackson which brought southern military history all around the world and a mutual fascination in respect emerge between ex-confederates and the british military that would solidify confederate support for the british long before nineteen fourteen by the outbreak of the world war one most veterans were in their seventies and eighties and were displeased by how discussion the civil war domestically had faded away over time commemoration of their cause and service was key to them and many were worried that the cause they fought for would simply be forgotten about if not so drastically distorted by northern historians that their legacy was forever tainted viewing themselves as also being victims of an oppressive invading an industrialized army confederate veterans and their families felt extreme empathy for belgians after the german invasion in nineteen fourteen with some out of sympathy and others taking advantage of a newfound hype over the war in europe authors drew comparisons between the german union armies both at a strategic and ideological level much of the discussion surrounded defending confederate legacy in actions and highlighting any suffering on their part the hope of many of these authors was to show that the brutality of the german army was no different from how the union waged war and the americans today ought to be focused on american suffering not european general sherman and charitain were consistent topics in this regard northern journalists began drawing comparisons between the germans and confederate forces and very quickly magazines and newspapers became a hot bed for who is most like the germans in many ways the outbreak of the war reignited all divides in a revival of confederate sentiment ensued yet by the u.s. entry into the war in nineteen seventeen this narrative of german union similarity shifted from targeting the north to targeting germany distinctions were made between the union of them and the united states of now which was increasingly deemed no longer authoritarian thanks to their own efforts president would you're a wilson was able to bridge much of the social divide having been considered a proper southern democrat despite his longtime residency in new jersey and pennsylvania veteran organizations declared their wholesale support for him and echoed his calls for the defense of france in belgium both confederate union veterans thus reunited in their old age and tended to rejoice at the notion of a common cause offering to go overseas together and fight alongside their grandchildren on multiple occasions some recommended a draft for those in their seventies and eighties deeming themselves most qualified to fight a war poetry uh... very quickly became a staple in confederate media and often wished both northern and southern boys good luck on the front lines and the stars and stripes became a symbol of freedom and liberty to all by nineteen eighteen unity was at the forefront of discussion and any acts of trees and against the united states were felt to be fundamentally anti-american this correlation of anti-united states and anti-american signals an almost unbelievable change in attitude uh... from these confederate veterans and is a very far cry from the days of secession and civil war ultimately two key points can be identified in regard to reconciliation war creates common causes and time is a major factor while secession was a popular concept many poor southern soldiers during the civil war had not identified a reason behind their own personal fighting some did so for the preservation slavery uh... others in hopes of defending their families in hometowns the lost cause served to provide a new morally superior justification for their actions being anti-authoritarianism the onton of world war one would rally along this very principle and the north and south would find themselves fighting under the same banner as americans being half a century after their own conflict these veterans would find pride in their children and grandchildren being patriotic american soldiers post war confederates would often name these new veterans of world war one in their obituaries hoping to attach themselves to a new southern legacy separate from the confederacy right well thank you to all four of these presenters um... we can give them another round of applause and we now have remarks from doctors michael andrew and michael thunberg and i'm not sure of the order here so are you sitting or would you like to come up afternoon welcome once again for the thumbberg and i decided to divide the labor so i read augusts and michael's papers i'll comment on on those was reading them i was looking for a theme obviously they both deal with ukraine but in addition to that they're also both about identities and they both remind us both papers remind us that it is not states or countries that act or behave or believe it is human beings and identities often serve as a filter through which human beings make decisions and act and believe the first paper i'll talk about is augusts and he wrote about the role of the dombas separatist movement in the ukraine war which is i think a unique and special perspective when we think about the war in ukraine we often think of it in terms of the conflict between democracy and authoritarianism or east and west maybe russian greed land hunger what augusts focused on was the underlying tension the identity tensions and i wanted to i think something that august should probably develop more thoroughly is that idea of the self-determination movement the dombas i found this sentence near the end of his paper the greatest tragedy of the war in dombas is the refusal of self-determination to the dombas from both eastern and western powers and i think that something that really could be developed should be developed is that idea of self-determination and what we often refer to as the right to self-determination we often speak in terms of nation states the fact is of course that very few states are actually nation states most states are multi national in that context what does self-determination mean is self-determination the right to a state the right to be sovereign is it the right to secede is it the right to dismember an existing state we know that even though most states are multi national many states do not experience violent internal conflict others do why is it that some are more violent than others i think it comes down to me i think see this in our own country is different groups believing that they are or are not represented so one solution that's offered by erin lippard is what he calls constitutional democracy and constitutional democracy is a way of sharing power and that can come in the form of say proportional electoral system or grants of autonomy and one thing that i would like to see august do is discuss the minsk agreements in more detail because the second minsk agreement included provisions for self-government for donbas but that was somehow swept aside and in twenty twenty two russia decided to recognize both the nets and luhansk in the donbas something else i think that august should consider is what's going on in the donbas how ethnically homogeneous is donbas or how diverse is it because if you were to create an autonomous region in donbas would that create new minorities and what would their rights i also thought that it would be important to explore why ukraine is important to russia not just the donbas but ukraine more broadly more broadly speaking what kind of spiritual significance does ukraine hold for for russia and since the end of the cold war russian foreign policy has been animated in part by desire to protect russian minorities in the former soviet union or former russian empire what rights does russia have to protect minorities if it believes that those minorities are being oppressed is there even an obligation on behalf of different countries even international community to intervene in the affairs of states if they believe that minorities are being oppressed turning to michael's paper the shift in china's support for russia in the russian ukrainian war i think that one growing area of scholarship in international relations focuses on cooperation between authority and regimes there's a lot of research on cooperation between liberal democracies we've developed the democratic peace theory which is the idea that liberal democracies don't go to war with each other instead they form security communities probably wouldn't go so far as to say the same kind of relationships develop between authoritarian regimes but under what conditions do authoritarian regimes share common interests and i think that might be expressed in president g's twenty thirteen announcement of what he referred to as the new type of major country relations which is really about basic principle of that is relational reciprocity which means each country respects each other countries core interests and major concerns and it could be that that is what china and russia are are doing china is recognizing russia's fear of influence and russia is reciprocating that of course causes problems for the united states in the south china c because what we see as freedom of navigation exercises china interprets as an effort by the united states to infringe on its sphere of influence so i think this gets back to the idea of identities and one thing that i think michael could explorers some is up scheme called national role conception where you look at how different leaders in different countries understand their roles and the roles of their countries so how do chinese leaders understand their history and how do they understand their ability to shape international relations and what should international relations look like thank you so first i want to say doctor who's asked me to do the student papers for a couple years now uh... and i really enjoyed doing it because it's always great to see what the students right and i will say it is fundamentally different subjecting yourself to open critiques then it is to just submit a paper and get feedback from a professor so credit all of you for being up here in the first place uh... hogan and trask i will email you my critiques uh... but i'll go in order that they are represented and so i'll do the hogan paper uh... first which looks at how russia and china use transnational repression against the united states uh... so i think you provide some good examples of things that china and russia are doing to engage in some of these transnational repression uh... i like the end where you build that little table so if you're here for the previous uh... panel doctor coup talked about good political scientists coming up with their two by twos we like our two by twos and our little tables and you had a good table in there so i think that that's a good start a few points though of what i would like to see uh... that i think it really strengthen the paper some i encourage you to think a little bit about the severity of those different things that you're talking about you hit on it a little bit in your paper and you say this is the most severe one but you kind of jump around throughout the paper and i think if you identify the levels of severity for each of those things that would help clarify the paper a little bit for you so you're not going to be able to know kind of the distance and severity between surveillance and assassination we know those are pretty far apart but we know that assassination is higher than surveillance so to be able to put those in some order i think would would benefit uh... the paper some i really like that at the very end of the paper you said russia and china are not the only countries that are engaging in this and then you listed off a bunch of other nefarious actors and countries that are engaging in this the united states is one of those countries we surveil we engage in espionage we engage in open source collecting we do all of these things right so it's not just that these other countries the united states is doing this stuff too we just don't see it as an attack as we're doing it outward so i think that that needs to be incorporated into the paper a little bit and i'll get to that uh... i'm kind of a reframing issue that i think could help uh... really help strengthen the paper your thesis talks about transnational repression towards the united states and how the united states needs to be aware of what's happening so that we can kind of defend against it a lot of the examples that you give though aren't happening in the united states right they're happening outside of the united states so you know that's kind of a different question even the example that you give about the kind of secret chinese police that get set up in the united states that's being used to suppress chinese dissidents that's not really against the united states that's against dissidents speaking against china right so i think you need to uh... work on and tease out a little bit what exactly you mean by repression and what you mean by a kind of a u s attack so a couple clarifying things could could could help with that first the idea of creating that ordinal scale might help understand what is actually being directed at the u s specifically uh... you say we need to understand what's happening so that we can create policy solutions i completely agree but the first thing we have to understand is where the problem is because depending on if it is in the united states or if it's abroad that's going to be different policy levers that we're pulling to address that certain thing so the more you can kind of flesh out those different levels and where it's actually happening i think the better able you're going to be to uh... to create some of those potential policy solutions so i think you could reframe your thesis in one of two ways to really help with that uh... the first one the first one focuses about kind of broader geopolitical implications from these events so it's the u s perspective on how transnational repression is occurring so not like an attack on the u s but how is the u s responding to what russia and china are doing in engaging in transnational repression right and then that helps you move away from it's an attack on the u s there are some things that happen in the u s but they're also external things that china and russia are doing that the u s is concerned about that they want to respond to so i think that that's one frame that you could focus on i think the other frame uh... that that could be a really beneficial contribution uh... is to incorporate the united states into that into that uh... that table to show where the united states falls because we don't fall far down on the severity level too often and then look at how democratic to authoritarian regimes mitigate transnational repression to say that while china and russia are authoritarian they're more likely to lean towards those higher levels of transnational repression versus the democratic constraints that are put in place on the united states that limits us from being able to do so so that can kind of reframe it a little bit uh... take a more institutional structure uh... and have a look at uh... transnational transnational repression so i think you have a lot going uh... in here and you have a lot of good rich examples a little bit of reframing i think it really strengthens could strengthen the paper okay the trash paper uh... trash paper seeks to understand how world war one was used as a catalyst for reconciliation following the civil war uh... it's very well sourced you clearly did some archival work uh... you organize those sources uh... use them to tell some stories so i say some stories and i'll get to some of those stories in just a second uh... i really like that you use some creative pension data to identify the number of living civil war veterans and widows between that forty nine-year period of the end of the civil war and world war one so i think that that was really creative uh... a few comments that again i think it helps strengthen the paper a little bit your first major section talks about uh... what the veteran perspective was to go to war during the civil war and world war one and how going to war might inform that uh... perspective so i have two major points here you take that idea and then you kind of launch into this idea of tactics trench warfare uh... the advent of military machinery all of those things tactics change uh... and yes going to war in eighteen sixty two is going to be fundamentally different from going to war in twenty twenty two but i think the idea of going to war there's going to be a lot of similarities right you're being taken away from your family you're being put into life and death situations you're away from home right there's a lot of similarities that are there that the tactics aren't necessarily driving so you have this large focus on tactics but i think there's a bit of a disconnect from what you're talking about which is this perception of going to war and i th