Sure glad to be here. Thank you. So I think when we have a discussion about the over putting a overall historical verdict on judging the legacy of communism. I do agree that when we're talking about communism we do have to talk about what that actually meant in reality. So this idea that you know communism has never been tried or it wasn't true communism or doesn't actually reflect the real thing. I think we don't have to. That's not something that has to be in dispute we can all agree that communism specifically in the 20th century refers to a phenomena that begins with the Soviet Union continuing through countries like China. In the world outside of Europe in America and the Eastern Bloc and so on and so on, as well as the legacy of capital C communist movements within the United States and Western Europe and so on. So I think there's no dispute about the fact that communism does have to refer to the, you know, the thing that actually propped the name into relevance and significance in the first place. And to me, when you begin from there, you have to have a very honest and sober assessment of the record in the facts at hand. Now the experience of communism was obviously very bloody. It was obviously something that was fraught with catastrophes to say the economic catastrophes, famines, moments of political terror and so on and so on. But we should have a more broader investigation and criticism of whether this is specifically because of communism rather than a feature of as such because the modernization of let's say even the Western capitalist countries and the world at large fits the same pattern that we saw, if not far worse actually I would argue, in the case of communism, the prerequisites to the agricultural industrial modernization of the non communist world required in an immense level of famines, social instability terror unrest, colonialism slavery, and so on and so on in the new world genocide. There are a lot of things that aren't that can't be brushed to the side when we're evaluating how modernization takes place. Historically. So to me, you have to place communism within that context of this question of pre modern and largely agrarian societies, confronting and trying to persevere through this challenge of modernity. Modernity, specifically in the form of agricultural modernization, somehow historically inevitably leads to this kind of chaos and uncertainty in the way food is produced and in the way the foundation of economies, of cultures is preserved, right. So this is obviously something fraught with several, you know, small mistakes can lead to catastrophic outcomes. But at the very least we can say that these mistakes were on record, things that communist states learned from after they were made very quickly I should add. Don't only look at the negatives that are mostly mass publicized. As a result of Cold War anti communist propaganda and elsewhere, you have to also have a fair and sober assessment of the overwhelming achievements of communist parties and leading their respective individuals to a position, a social position far superior to then before whether in the realm of literacy acculturation medicine access to a bare minimum of a standard of living a basic dignified means of livelihood a kind of guarantee of a job, so on and so And obviously this came to a certain limit and crisis in the 1970s, where this primary standard of living was no longer enough to support the wants and desires and aspirations of the peoples and communist states. Nonetheless, I think we can retrace and reevaluate the original significance of communism. In order to now address and put into a new light the challenges that we now face today which our current liberal order seems to be unable to deal with. This is the fourth industrial revolution we're facing an economic transition not dissimilar to the one that communists were addressing namely the one from pre modern agrarian societies to industrial societies. Now we're in a situation of industrial societies transitioning into an era of smart cities and you know and more internet based economy and more kind of decentralization. So I think that communism has a new new fund significance in this regard. So I think I'll just end it there. You got it. Thank you very much for that opening statement infrared. Want to let you know folks if it's your first time here at modern day debate, we are thrilled to have you here no matter what walk of life you were from, and we are also thrilled to have here James Hake. Thanks so much for being with us the floor is all yours for your opening statement as well. And thanks to haze infrared for coming on as well this was today was my introduction to haze and infrared and what they, or he, I think it's they believe, I think he's a Marxist Leninist and Leninist communist.  I don't know, looking around America, like the Democrats the black lives matter and T for people the mainstream media types. And I, I saw a video where he said you can be patriotic and and nationalist as well as communist. What's going on communism is that it's atheistic at its root. Like you have to be an atheist to be a good communist was one quote from a famous communist I think I've heard, promoting the insane idea of equality, which is not an ideal. Nor is it the truth the serpent told Eve in the Garden of Eden that you can be equal with God, and that's a lie. The feminist communists have sought to be equal with men. And it's just been a big mess. Since then, communism seems to be against men and against nature. It's around in America is sought to render the men unnecessary to the women and to the children. And it's, it does not mind, as he said, famine, abortion, forced vaccination in the name of, you know, against healthy individuals who are not at high risk from diseases that don't threaten them. It's a violation of individual, they don't mind in violation of individuals rights for the so called collective the greater good.  The communists unions seek to persuade the angry so called workers to go up against and subvert the the bosses who envisioned started built and led the businesses that gave them the jobs. The communists sometimes pretend to be friends and want mutual benefit for everyone. And some of them may sincerely feel that way. But in the end, it's, it's a phony thing. The best intentions are the road to hell, as you may know, communists don't mind lying stealing and killing to get their way. Many others do too. And as Peter said, words and ideas are more important for the intellectual, which is the same thing as a communist or a liberal as then actions in reality. So it's partly why the straight talking Nazis are much more maligned than the sweet talking communists, which the mainstream media is, you know, they have they have a they pander to basically in America. So what we have what's called what I call Kami Kami capitalism, because Amazon, Google, Facebook, all these are in bed with the government. They support black lives matter and Tifa just destruction of the country they support the mass immigration that's that's changing the face of the country and the values of the country. They support the communist shutdowns in the name of the virus that we have that has just destroyed their competition or destroyed the businesses and just meanwhile they've made mass profits. And that means more power for them as well as for the government. In America, we're already a socialist country. You don't own your own land or property. You don't have a right to contract for work with workers to pay them just $1 or $2 an hour if they want to work that, you know, be a be an usher or whatever. We've lost a lot of jobs in that way. You have wealth redistribution, which is really more like ghetto redistribution through progressive tax and social programs and affirmative action and all these things. You have the harsh hand of law quote unquote law coming down on innocent capital protesters because they're the communism seeks to divide and conquer the whites against the people of color or the people of color really against the whites and the liberals against the whites. And it's overwhelming the systems the in order to destroy them and rebuild them in their image through immigration.  The government and the media are just filled in my view with communists from Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to to Nikki Haley and even perhaps Greg Abbott over in Texas. I don't see capitalism as the opposite of communism. I see it really as good versus evil. So I see capitalism as as just as many communists do as a stepping stone to communism because when in capitalism we start to do well and then we forget God. You know the saying goes tough times make strong, make strong men strong men make good times, good times make, make a weak man, and then weak men make tough times. And that's when the communists like to strike. So capitalism is supposed to be about freedom but you can't have freedom is I think John Adams said without morality. So freedom from is supposed to be freedom from this degeneracy, but they pushed pornography and all of that madness to just subvert families. It's about envy.  Satan came as the angel of light and evil is subtle. It sounds good. It's an imitation of logic and morals. So that's communism don't fall for it. You've got to thank you very much James for that opening statement as well and want to let you know folks. Modern day debate is a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion and politics. And in fact, if you haven't already hit that subscribe button as we've got many more juicy debates to come in particular at the bottom right of your screen. I'm excited as Stefan Malinu and Destiny face off the last week of this month. You don't want to miss it. So hit that subscribe button and that notification bell for reminders. And with that, thank you very much, James and infrared. The floor is all yours for open discussion. Sure. I want to be kind of brief. I don't want to ramble too much, but I think in the United States and this is one of the things in infrared wanted to embark upon to kind of change people's perception is that here in the United States. I think there's a lot of confusion about what communism meant in other countries and how that would apply here and I think that for several reasons, there has come to be this kind of confusion in this country that there's this association with communism and the experience of communism and Russia and China and the existing communist states that survived today and there's this association with that with the current, you know, the deep state and the democratic establishment and George Soros and the NGOs and the kind of Davos agenda for the great There's this association between communism and these things. I think because in the United States that Democrats are considered left. And the Republicans are considered right so people just have this idea that communism is just the like ultimate logical conclusion of the Democrats current agenda. I think when you actually study the experience and history of communism in the proper context, you will find that. Well, for one, there's a historical tension between communism and religion but that wasn't necessarily because communism is inherently anti religious or even inherently atheist. It was because the religious establishments that communists were going up against in their respective countries were deeply rotten and corrupt to the core they defended the interest of the very corrupt ruling class and you know many normal ordinary religious minded people could even see that within these very same religious establishments you had utmost cynicism and hypocrisy these people that were occupying these roles of religious power didn't actually even believe in it themselves so there wasn't really any authentic faith there themselves and for that reason communists had taken in the very beginning a negative stance toward religion but as the experience of communism was able to mature more, especially now, I think a certain understanding has arrived at between communist internationally and religion which allows for a communism that has room for faith not only doesn't have room for faith, but is actually able to rediscover itself in the history of the world's great faiths. Frederick Engels, Marx's friend if you don't know who he is, toward the end of his life he wrote about how in the early stages of Christianity you found pretty much a very striking parallel to the socialist and linguistic movement in Europe that the principles and values of Christianity are strikingly similar to those of the communists I mean, the President Putin of Russia has pointed out that the code of communist builders which was the Soviet kind of like handbook for the Komsomol youth, he said all of these things are already to be found in the Bible so around the world especially in Russia with its communist party and in Latin America and in the Middle East, and I hope in the United States, communism has not only been proven to be perfectly compatible with faith, but they appear to even complement each other because from the perspective of the world's great religions we can see the kind of corruption and inhumanity that capitalism has brought upon the peoples of the world, and the way in which this has to be addressed economically and politically seems to be very much compatible and similar to what the communists are saying right now in regards to this question of equality. I think there's also confusion here too because communists never wanted to make everyone absolutely equal because as Marx angles and Lenin pointed out people are inherently different some people have more skills than others some people are smarter. Some people are stronger and people are different in general so we don't communists don't have this idea of making everyone equal we just believe that equality is concerned no more than what was written in the Declaration of Independence that we believe that men and women were created equal, right, which is what the founding fathers of the United States have said. And all that means that insofar as the government is going to serve the interests of the people we're going to have a government by four and of the people. We're going to privilege the special interests like Amazon and Facebook and other monopolies over the ordinary man. This is our government, and we will should be treated accordingly people like Jeff Bezos Bill Gates, and other billionaires are not somehow more human than we are they're not somehow more citizens of this republic than we are. So, in that regard, we just as far as equality is concerned, believe that everyone should have a certain equality before the government before that allows us to begin with equal opportunity. Now, we don't. We're not advocating for an equality of outcomes in life. If you look at communist states like China. You don't find, you know, an equality of outcomes between people and yet countries like China have done a very good job in being able to crack down on monopolies like the ones you're seeing with Amazon and, and in the billionaire class. China is actually an example of a country with a government that isn't able to be infiltrated by the special interests, the corporations and with their special private agendas that are beyond the interests of the people. So I think we should be clear that communists don't want to completely level society and make it equal. We just want people to be able to have a fighting chance and that means people don't own land they don't own homes. They don't have to be able to own things because if people are able to own things in general they're going to have a solid foundation from which to begin and begin as equals. Are you an atheist. My personal relationship to religion I would say is complicated but in certain regards I think I am an atheist just in the sense that I don't like making assumptions about what God is and what God wants and who God is, but at the same time I'm also someone who's motivated by a profound sense of faith and faith in something that I struggle to call anything but God or a God. But again because religion has been misused so often in history I want to be very careful about my own relationship to faith personally. Where are you from. I'm just curious, if you don't mind. Oh yeah my parents are from Lebanon. Okay. So this is a quote from marks, the Communist manifesto by marks and angles, communism abolishes eternal truths it abolishes all religion and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis, therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience at root is it not atheistic. I wouldn't say so because I think what marks and angles we're trying to say in that regard is that communism doesn't mean to replace all these things with a new religion and a new dogma and a kind of a new tradition. And I think that's very important to, you know, keep in mind because it's very easy to just assume that because you're having this new political movement and phenomena that it's going to somehow make a new religion and make a new thing like that. And also, I think there's oftentimes a mistranslation as far as the word abolish is concerned, a lot of these texts so oftentimes the word off Hebrew, which actually means sublate which means to preserve while at the same time going beyond, it's translated into to abolish means like to wipe out right and oftentimes marks and angles right about the sublation of things, which is not necessarily incompatible with their preservation in a new form. Right. So, the way I look at that and the way I would interpret that is that communists don't want to abolish Christianity, they just want to give a new ground for the expression of the authentic Christian faith without the corrupt religious institutions and establishments, which deceive the people and trick people in the name of tapping into their real authentic faith. Who are just motivated by cynical interests of serving those in power or serving special interests, or just plainly trying to scan people into making money. I've seen reports that that China, for example, as recently as last year, they were clamping down I think on Christians, as well as some other religions like Falun Gong or something like that, and saying, we need Marxism, not religion not Christianity. And I've just noticed that, for example, Armenians, I've had some Armenian friends and they lived in a former communist country. And because of that, there is a lot of corruption and a lot of cheating and low trust society making business practices with many Armenians because of that culture that basically where life is not done, life was once done in America with a handshake. You did not have to worry about a man that you shook hands with pulling a fast one on you, whereas that's not the case in many of these communist countries because it seems to be that communism does not understand or else it purposely exploits the weakness and corruption and laziness of human nature, because it has it has you where you are, you get something that you didn't earn, and you don't, you don't appreciate it, you don't properly take ownership of it. In regards to the situation of religion within China, Christians are not being cracked down on China for their religious faith. Now there are various cults among them the Falun Gong, which which is a cult, it's not really a historical or traditional religion. The Chinese government will crack down on those but not simply because of in the name of uploading Marxism versus religion on Chinese society you have to keep in mind has historically not had a the same relationship to religion that other societies do. The Chinese society has been mostly secular throughout its thousands of years of history, just in the sense that its way of relating to spirituality and religion those kinds of things are done through the concrete bonds of civil society and statehood so that's not really an innovation of communism it's just been true for China's history at large but otherwise Christians are free to practice their faith openly and freely within China, and events like the Taiping rebellion in the 19th century within China which was a Christian religious uprising against the Qing dynasty was obviously very influential in, you know, influencing the communist the eventual communist movement that would come later so I think there is an interesting relationship to Christianity there but again China is not a Christian country. Now, in regards to this cynicism that prevails within Armenia you have to keep in mind that after the collapse of communism, when the very same forces that conservatives within America are trying to struggle against. They basically engage in the wholesale privatization of the former Soviet countries and, you know, pretty much looted them and destroyed their traditions and trying to destroy their culture and set up all these NGOs and things like that to promote the, to promote a society that was more in line and more in the interest of the American deep state. Obviously the situation in the post communist states has been catastrophic but this wasn't the fault of communist. It actually was the fault of the same global billionaires and the global capitalist class who are funding NGOs people like George Soros people like, you know, the Ford Foundation and the Rockefellers and all this kind of people who have this very they don't only have an agenda for the people of the United States and for this country which I think to many Americans has been revealed. They had an agenda to completely overthrow the communist states and replace them with liberal democracies and that has been an absolute disaster for traditions and and for their culture and for religion so much so that in countries like Russia, you find the Communist Party to be fundamentally Orthodox Christian at its core it's allied with the Orthodox church because both recognize the forces of anti communism to be a minister religion within their country. To me regarding the promotion of laziness and selfishness. I think you have to keep in mind that in the 20th century you had this kind of economic equality within communist states, primarily because they were coming from a backwards agrarian society and transitioning into an industrial society. So the goal is just to give people the minimum of just some kind of modernization. Now when that came into a crisis communist states responded to that in different ways. But the most successful way a communist status responded to the issue is the path China took. And obviously no one can really make the argument that in China, these vices of, you know, a lack of economic entrepreneurship and innovation and you know, things like that is is being promoted China is a very industrious hard working, innovative competitive society and this is no lying and cheating and lying and cheating. I don't know if that's I'm not sure I think that's culture of lying and cheating is common to all, you know, market societies or societies that are part of the global capitalist world economy right so that's not something that's the fault of communism I think that's more something that's the fault of the kind of dog eat dog world that we live in but China has seen profound cultural shifts, and specifically with the President's presidency of Xi Jinping we're seeing a more of a promotion of morality instead of the kind of nice unfettered economic growth for the sake of economic growth is more of a promotion of moral values and kind of cracking down on this kind of cynical dog eat dog society. The, just a side note, you mentioned China. So, and you said, we you talk about we communists, and you distance yourself from Soros and all Ford Foundation who I think of them as communists. You mentioned Xi Xi Jinping, I guess that is that the only communist who is a public figure that we would not recognize that you would consider a communist. No, there are several within Latin America there's people like Pedro Castillo there's the leader of the Russian Communist Party. There's other communist throughout Eastern Europe. People leaders of communist parties and you obviously have communist states like Vietnam, Laos, Cuba, and then also Venezuela under the presidency of both Huo Chavez and Nicholas Maduro. So there's many people I would consider socialist or communist. Anybody in America. Um, it's a tricky question within America because I think that there has been a big confusion because of the history of the Cold War and the left right division leftist within America and liberals have adopted the communist identity, not because they have any connections to communism globally, but because they just want to kind of spite the right wing similar to how people adopt the identity of Satanism despite Christians but within the United States. We have figures socialist or left wing figures that I would consider to be more aligned with the global communist movement like people like Jimmy door people like Jesse Ventura figurehead figures like Caleb Malpin who is himself a devout Christian Um, the same time being a socialist than a communist. You have people like, you know, Michael Parenty, and this is a new and growing movement which I think in the future is going to be much, much larger than it is now, but for now unfortunately the American left is dominated by forces subservient to the billionaire class, and to what we would consider the forces of American capitalism. I think of communism as exploiting the natural fissures between society. I've heard that they, for example, race in America, they divide the races. They divide, again, worker from boss or whatever, so-called rich from so-called poor, when men from women, just the LGBTIQ madness. I don't see you guys, and I mentioned this at the beginning. I don't see you and the infrared people as being so viciously anti-white, so explicitly anti-Christian anyway. How are you gonna get communists to become reasonable? Well, I think you just have to look at the name. So communism, it comes from this common root of common, it's about finding what is in common. And that's why for me, as Americans, if we're going to be communists, we're going to promote communism, we're going to try and promote what is in common between the people. We don't wanna divide people or accelerate or promote these current frivolous cultural divisions that are being promoted by the media to distract people from their real enemies. We want the American people to come together, to be reconciled with one another so as they can focus their attention on their real enemy, which is the current American establishment, the current billionaire class, the current oligarchy and the current monopolies, especially in our particular, the big tech monopolies, whose power is so unprecedented that if allowed to continue, they may very well lead to the destruction of our republic and of any semblance of democracy. These unaccountable big tech companies which are seemingly above the law and don't have to answer to anyone and who aren't even being regulated in any capacity. So we want people to come together. We don't wanna keep dividing people along these identities. Now at the same time, we can recognize that there are racial tensions in this country. There is a historical and ongoing, and in my view, injustice committed against America's black people because they have been denied the post civil war rife of 40 acres in a mule, right? And that's not some kind of total economic equalization. It's just the minimum of having a solid foundation with which to build their own community. Yeah, I think that's the last thing they need. Sorry to interrupt. I think that's the last thing they need, and sorry to interrupt, but they've been given and given and given, it's been debilitating. I don't think they have... I'm not speaking so much of a handout to make them dependent on the US government, which I think the Democrats have played a part in trying to, in order to secure them as an electorate. What I'm speaking at is some kind of fundamental just ability to own something from which they can build economically, right? And that's not, that doesn't take the form of just being dependent on the government or being dependent on welfare. Actually, if you look at the history of the United States, this ability for Americans to go and get their own land was the foundation of American prosperity and economic prosperity. You had the... I forget the specific name of the act in the 1800s, which allowed Americans who were westward to be able to just pretty much the Homestead Act. Yeah. These things were integral for the prosperity and economic flourishment of the United States. People were able to have their own land and from there they could proceed and build something.  In my view, the Kami capitalism has made that harder for people to afford things. I think blacks, just as much as anybody, have the ability to gain wealth in this country, but that ability definitely is limited because of the subsidization of subsidizing so-called education and the corruption of education has made people... And the subsidizing of housing and the minimum wage, those of all, along with what you just said, have made things harder for normal people to get along. And they have men and women working, which has only made people able to afford more, but then they just raise the prices. And so men and women feel like they don't really have to, but they feel like they almost have to work both of them and then they're separated from their children. It's such a corrupting influence. Has it not been... Just one quick question. I know I'm adding things on top. Has it not been the case that communists exploited the divisions and Balkanization and all that stuff in order to create a crisis and take power? No, so I think I'll just answer in order, just two things. The first thing is that I do agree that there are current monopoly impediments to the general Americans' ability to flourish economically. But I don't know if I agree that those things are necessarily the minimum wage and the subsidization of housing and education, although those being enamored in all the bureaucratic red tape and corruption that they are, definitely do need to be improved and made more efficient. I agree, but in general, I think the number one obstacle is actually the big monopolies, whether in the form of, in housing, you have financial institutions like BlackRock that are buying up America's homes and massing. What you call a commie capitalism, I think I would call it, and this is something that people have referred to it in America, is a kind of socialism for the rich. I mean, the mainstream media tells us we live in a free market capitalist society, but clearly you have all of these special grants and favors the government does for the 1% and for the monopolies, right? It gives them subsidies, it gives corporations tax breaks and subsidies the average American doesn't have access to. There's tax loopholes that allow special interests to be able to game the system and basically rig the system. So I do agree. We do have a kind of socialism for the rich. All I'm advocating for as a communist is that we have a socialism for the people instead. And to me, now the second thing about is highlighting the difference, communists haven't tried to create crisis in order to seize power. They were rather the ones that seized power as a result of crisis is that no one else was able to overcome. For example, in China, you had the invasion by the Japanese and communists had a very important part in the war of liberation and leading the Chinese people against the Japanese imperialists. And the communists were the most effective in being able to rally the Chinese people and unify actually the Chinese people rather than divide them to create the People's Republic. It's not really the communists that were dividing people. It was their enemies that were promoting various divisions between them in order for the ruling class of the time to be able to maintain its grip on power. So again, I think the primary goal of communists is to unify people. But when we unify people, you're gonna see the establishment, the mainstream media, the special interests, the institutions, the NGOs, the think tanks, all these kinds of universities. They're all going to rally together and try to stop it. So conflict will inevitably be generated. But that's not because it's what we want. What do you think of Trump and Tucker? Well, here's what I'll say about Trump. I'm obviously not the biggest fan of Trump. I think that he made many mistakes. I think the primary mistake that Trump ended up making was that he was completely beholden to the Republican establishment. And I don't think Trump really had any independent direction.  I don't necessarily agree with that. I don't know what Trump's personal ambitions or goals or loyalties were, but I can't appreciate the fact that he did kickstart a movement of Americans who were fed up with the system and who were fed up with the establishment. And he gave them a sense of hope. Now, do I think Trump, do I believe Trump himself personally is going to be able to make do on the expectations he's given to his movement? I don't necessarily think so. And that's why as communists, we don't necessarily want to go against the Trump movement and Trump people. We rather want to show them that there's a more effective way to fight this establishment than Trump can. I mean, Trump, for example, was so, I agree he was very much treated unfairly by the media. He was very much lied about and so on and so on. But at the same time, I think as communists, we want to propose a more effective and better way of combating the same forces that were demonizing Trump better than Trump himself could. And also part of that means making more alliances. If we want to reach out and make alliances with leaders of the black community fed up with the establishment. Because believe it or not, the black community is not as loyal to the Democrats as the mainstream media is trying to say.  Many Latinos are fed up with it. So I think we want to reach out and make even more broad alliances with these groups. Maybe in ways that the current Trump movement hasn't been too successful in doing. I've noticed that the communists, people who I call communists, the people who commonly think of the Antifa Black Lives Matter and I have a broader definition than maybe others, they exploit the anger of the so-called minorities. It seems like with this version of communism that you want to exploit the anger of everybody. You want to not exclude the whites. And it seems ripe for that because whites are getting angry as well at what's going on. They've been demoralized, lack of morals and they see the injustice explicitly in many cases against them and men too. So I don't know, you might be successful in this. Yeah, I think the first thing I want to say is that, to me, the so-called Antifa, at least within the United States, they're very clearly foot soldiers of the democratic establishment. Now Black Lives Matter as an official organization received funding from George Soros, we all know that. And obviously it's very ambiguous and mysterious to say the least about what interest exactly they're serving. But all I could pretty much say is that there are legitimate grievances within the Black community, but I think those grievances are being turned against the Democrats themselves. And as for Antifa, I think the so-called Antifa phenomena, they're calling themselves communists and they're waving communist flags, but this isn't because they're actually communists, it's because they're trying to instill fear in conservatives. They're trying to provoke fear in the people that the so-called deplorables that are against the democratic establishment. And because most Americans, and this is a result of the Cold War, have fearful attitudes toward communism, these people are trying to exploit that fear and make themselves into a boogeyman, right? Now, as far as the anger and grievances that white people or men are experiencing, I don't necessarily think this is because white people or men are necessarily oppressed, but I think that many working-class people happen to be white, happen to be men, many ordinary regular people. And one of the ways that the establishment is trying to sow division between people is by trying to target or sow racial divisions and make people feel bad or guilty because they're white and promote all this bullshit about how we have to tear down the statues of founding fathers and all this kind of stuff. So I do agree that there's legitimate anger there, but I don't think that we should sow more of the division and more of this tension. I think we should recognize it as an attempt by those in power to divide people, right? And what communists wanna do is we wanna bring people together because we think that they're being distracted with this inflighting from their real enemy. And that real enemy is the American establishment and the monopolies. I don't know, there is some truth to that, but the enemy is within, it's a good versus evil and like anybody with anger is gonna be, gonna end up working against their own interests. I don't think that the black community really has legitimate grievances. At least none of that they're crying about, none that we hear crying about in the mainstream at least. Well, the black people that are being given representation in the mainstream don't necessarily represent the grievances of the black community. I do think the black community has many legitimate grievances. Can you get one? Yeah, sure. They don't have enough self-determination and independence. They're ruled by police departments that aren't really connected to the community much in the same way that rural people in the United States have been, you know, since the 90s and the 2000s, especially ruled by these federal agencies that are completely disconnected with them, right? So... Are you aware of the amount of crime that's happening in these communities? And they're black... I'm not denying... They're begging for more police. Right, but I'm not denying that there's a reality of crime. I just think it's a vicious cycle in which the economic conditions that are promoting crime, namely from this wholesale robbery and scamming of America's black population by the Democrats specifically, leads to the end, you know, the attempt by the Democrats that seems at least clear to me to target families, right? And make families harder to start. This creates a vicious cycle which then leads also to a vicious, very vicious form of police repression. Now, I do agree that much of the so-called black lives matter protests were not coming from black people, but we're coming from actually primarily white leftists who are serving the interests of the Democrats. I think it's because the Democrats have tried to twist the legitimate grievances of America's various minorities and turn them into a way that will serve their own interests, even though the Democrats are the ones who have betrayed and robbed these same people for decades. Now, our solution to that isn't to focus on the anger and then, you know, aggravate grievances, but find a way that we can come together in order to address our common problems. We don't really want necessarily people to be angry. We just want people to feel powerful enough, to feel brave enough and to feel bold enough to stand up for what's right and to fight for their own republic, right? To fight for republic by, for and of the people because this establishment, these corporations and our deep state is nowhere to be found in our constitution. It's an overgrowth on our republic that was not intended by our founding fathers and is threatening to devour our republic itself. Now, I wanna make a prediction. I'm looking at the media and I'm looking how they're promoting people like Meghan Markle and it seems to me they're trying to prepare her for some kind of political existence or presence. And I find it a nightmare that it's a possibility that our elites are planning on dismantling our republic and basically installing the British crown to rule us, right? So I think this is something we really have to keep in mind and it's something as a communist I want to get the word out on. You mentioned fighting for what's right. How are communists to fight for what's right if they have no God, no morals, no absolute standard? They just do it by any means necessary. Is that not a communistic line or is that just in America? By any means necessary? Yeah, well, religious faith is not dogma. If we had an absolute standard, it wouldn't be faith. We wouldn't need to have faith. We would be able to have a guarantee. The reason we have faith is we're putting our trust in something we don't necessarily know, right? And I don't think communists, I don't believe the majority of communists are without a God. Even as an atheist for most of my adult life, I have come to see the value and importance of the feeling of God at the very least, right? The presence of God, right? So I don't necessarily, it's not that communists are against God. It's just that we're reluctant to focus too much on it because it can very easily be twisted to serve the opposite. Now the very religious, the great religions of the world warn about this. They warn about how people do things in the name of God, say things in the name of God, while in reality serving Satan, right? It's the, you yourself pointed out earlier that I forgot exactly what it said, but evil does disguise itself in the form of good. And as beautiful as I consider the great religions of the world, it's precisely because of how good, true, and beautiful that they are, that evil forces have used them for completely opposite purposes, right? So that explains really historically the reluctance of communists to really get really deep into the religion. But we saw in the Soviet Union, how for example, when the Germans invaded their country, they rediscovered the Russian Orthodox faith, this pure sense of faith, divorced from the institutional corruption of the church, which I think was a more authentic and real form of faith than the one that existed before communism, right? So we have to bear in mind, communism is not incompatible with religion. I think you can even go so far as to say that communists merely want to do good in the world. We don't want to make heaven on earth, but we want to be good people in this world. We don't only want to focus on the afterlife in heaven because this world does matter. What we do in this world matters. If we didn't believe that, then how could we condemn and recognize the evil of what our elites are doing? We clearly see that this is evil because we know that what happens in this world matters. I think that everybody sees evil, but they're not good at diagnosing it, nor are they good at coming up with the right solutions for it. They end up creating more evil. It's like an imitation of the logic because Karl Marx himself said, his Marxism cannot be conceived without atheism. And I think it's more than you're letting on. It's more- The reason there's confusion around this is because historically, religion had taken the form of philosophy in Marx's time. Marx wasn't thinking about religion beyond philosophy. And in the philosophical sense, Marx was an atheist. He did wholeheartedly reject religion, but that's because in my view, the meaning of religion became perverted by philosophy and what was once an authentic and material form of faith, just based in feeling and intuition and true faith and conviction, turned into dogma and it turned into this kind of absolute guarantee that I view is inherently corrupt. But I don't think that you can reduce people's religious feelings to that. I think people's religious feelings is authentic. Marx also agreed it was authentic. Marx called religion the heart of a heartless world. He said religion was the only way people were able to give expression to their authentic humanity, right? Now, whether or not you believe that in building a more human world, religion's going to disappear, we can all agree that there is something fundamentally good about religion. Marx himself was making the point that the problem is not religion. The problem is our current world and the evils that we associate with religion are a reflection of the evils of our world, right? So it's kind of more of a philosophical issue that shouldn't be taken as face value because his historical experience shows, and this is especially true in 2021, that in no way is religion incompatible with communism. Have you noticed that males who are communists have like a female version of logic where it's always excuse after excuse. It's not responsibility. Like the best, the solution for the black community is responsibility. It's not, oh, they have these grievances, the police. The police are not the black community's problem at all. Well, have you noticed that they have like a female mindset? It's just excuses. Yeah, I would just say two things. First thing I want to say is I do consider an important feature of manhood that we recognize we're not going to insert ourselves in other people's business, right? So I think black people themselves are best equipped in being able to diagnose their own problems and what those are. And I agree that the white left is trying to speak on behalf of them and make excuses or whatever. I agree, they're trying to speak for black people, right? But regarding this kind of, I guess you're calling it female logic, I think you don't really find communist men in this country, in the United States, all that much. But that's also because, and this is historically true and this is actually true in the ex-communist states, the ruling elites, and this is especially true for this more overly socialized and more urban people, right? The students and people don't really work with their hands. They tend to be more less manly, to say the least. And interestingly, in Eastern European countries, those people are actually the right wingers and it's the communists who are more conservative and down to earth and so on and so on. I think this issue as far as manhood is concerned, it is, yeah, it's really, I guess as a communist, it is embarrassing to see the type of communists that claim to represent what this tradition is, but that's why I'm trying to set a different example and several others are trying to set a different example so that communism won't be associated with that anymore. I do agree that the so-called self-proclaimed leftists and communists in America, in the main majority of them, especially the ones coming out of these universities and academia, they are fundamentally morally, spiritually, however you wanna put it, bankrupt people. They have no sense of honor. They have no sense of dignity. They have very slimy tactics. I myself know this firsthand because I've been victim of them, right? I know how dishonest and inhuman and dishonorable these people truly are, right? I know that firsthand, but at the same time, the way I see that is the same reason why you see religions being corrupted because to me, evil takes the form of good. It disguises itself as good, but I do fundamentally believe that at its core, communism is good. I just think evil people in this country specifically have been corrupting it for completely and wildly different ends. That's human nature. What religion were you before you became atheist? I came from a Shia Muslim background. Okay, last quick question. I know that I think we're running out of time. The Hong Kong protests is, my impression is it was communist students fighting against the communist establishment government. What's your take? The issue with Hong Kong is very complex, but needless to say, as we've noticed in the United States and throughout the world, you have vested interests trying to promote these color revolutions and these fake revolutions that brought all this social unrest. And it's not really, it's not an organic spontaneous thing, just like how we saw in the United States with George Soros funding unrest and protests here, these same people were funding the unrest and protests in Hong Kong. Now, a lot of that grievances of people in Hong Kong came from the fact that there's no housing in Hong Kong, right? There's no land for people. It's people can't find affordable housing and life is getting harder and harder in Hong Kong. And that's also because the communist government doesn't enforce its economic policies in Hong Kong, which are very pro-people policy. So it lets Hong Kong have its own system. And this led to a lot of grievances that because it was exploited by global forces was blamed on the Communist Party in Hong Kong. So I think we have to look at Hong Kong, also look at the protests in Russia with Navalny, look at the protests in Belarus, look at the protests in Latin America. We should all look at these in the same lens with which we look at with the same level of suspicion, a lot of the unrest that happens in this country. Interesting. That's about all I have for you. For this. Ready to become a communist, James? No, his answers for me are, Haize's answers for me are, they muddy the water. They do explain that a lot of this stuff is just evil human nature. But I think that a lot of it is, one cannot tell what actually happened in history. Look at how the media lies about the present day. So we don't know who did what and what the motive was. They lie about Charlottesville. They lie about the capital, mostly peaceful capital protests on January 6th. They lie about the Black Lives Matter movement. They even seem to have Haize fooled on the Black community's grievances. So it's, to me, I think it's a, who knows who cares type of thing, as far as the history goes. I like to know present day reality, have responsibility, and not throw out God with the bathwater. Juicy, any last thoughts in for Red? I think it was an overall productive, good conversation. You know, I guess I would say, with regards to the Black community, I think this is our main point of contention. I would just recommend reaching out and listening to many Black leaders, right? Because these are not people who are co-opted by the Democrats. They're against the Democrats. And I do think they authentically are leaders of their own community. They have their own specific views and they're completely demonized by the mainstream media as well. And it's something that they have in common with American conservatives. So I just think that that's important for unity. But, you know, I do overall agree that the media sows unnecessary division, but at the same time, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying to make an effort to bridge those divisions. Because there are, in my view, at least based in very real realities. I like to, yeah, do you have any, well, who would be a Black leader that you think of as a leader? Well, historically, you have organizations like the Nation of Islam, right? Oh, man.  You have Malcolm X historically, who famously called the Democrats the wolves in sheep's clothing. So it's a very rich tradition and there are living people who represent. I talk with Blacks practically every day on my radio show. Some of them have a sense. Some of them agree with me. Many of them agree with me. Many don't, many have that anger. They've taken on false identities.  What do your parents think when you left the Shia Muslim thing? I think they were okay with it, primarily because, you know, I did have issues with religion growing up, but I've come to a perspective where I have great respect and reverence for all of the worlds of major religions. And also I have a new, I acquired actually as a communist, a new found appreciation for Christianity and in particular, right? Because of how closely entwined communism historically has been with Christianity. So to me, I find beauty and truth in all of the worlds great religions. I think it's important that we not get caught up in the identities where you can't just tell, where you can't just tell people the truth.  I call both the Rhinos and the Democrats out, the mainstream media, but I think that we should be, have the freedom of speech to just say our impression, especially whites and men, because they're, and Christians, they're some of the most docile and submissive lately and fearful and intimidated, falsely intimidated because look at what is happening with Kyle right now. He's charged with murder over a clear case of self-defense. People don't have justice and we have lost a sense of justice and freedom here. I definitely agree that I do believe that Americans' freedom of speech has been curtailed specifically and especially by the big tech companies. And regardless of who I agree or disagree with, I do think people should be allowed to give authentic expression to what they really do believe and what they really do feel because regardless of whether I agree with it or not, it's a first step in being able to come to a point of unity and mutual understanding. And I think a good example of this was recently and let's not get into the details of it because I'm on Twitch, so I'm not sure what, but recently with Dave Chappelle's Netflix special, right? And he was trying to just give authentic expressions what he believed and he was canceled for it. Now he's having trouble finding ways to get his movie published and stuff. So it's like his stuff published.  You know, one quick other point, you mentioned black leaders. I think that one of the problems with men is that we have people that we put up as leaders. We should not be doing that. We should be our own leader and then we unite together and work together. And if somebody's gonna be a president like a Trump, then that's fine, but he has not put up on a pedestal where he is influencing our thought any more than any other man would be. And you can hear the truth from any man, even your enemy. I agree with that. I do agree that we shouldn't get caught up and as men, especially as men, and I can't speak for women because I'm not a woman, right? So I can just speak for men because that's what I am. So I'm not assuming that they're different or something, but I'm just, I agree that we shouldn't be relying putting all of our trust in just other men, right? Part of being a man is being your own man, having your own thoughts and being able to think for yourself. So I completely agree with that, you know? I think that's been the part of the problem with the black communities. They've had these people that they've propped up as leaders and they've made them into heroes. And you see human nature to do that, especially nowadays because men are nameless. I think ultimately I believe that black people themselves know what's best and know how to best diagnose their own problems, right? I think that we need our help. We're all human beings and we all have the freedom of speech and they can hear the truth from other races. They need to learn to do that, especially whites. But they also have... They close their minds to whites and it's not good for them. Well, I don't know if that's necessarily true because they just have different experiences. They have a different situation. They have different circumstances, right? And oftentimes it's hard for white people to relate to that because they don't share those same experiences and same circumstance. But they're all nose up against this imaginary problem that's called racism, whereas whites don't have that blind spot and sometimes it takes somebody from the outside looking in to see through the madness. Occasionally they'll wake up. Well, listen, that also manifests in the form of white people not experiencing this racism, right? So if they haven't experienced it... It doesn't exist. Well, that's, I think, where we definitely have to disagree. I think racism is a real thing. If racism is real, then blacks are the primary offenders. I don't agree.  I don't think that rural, ordinary Americans are the main culprits of white supremacy. I think it's actually the Democrats and the liberals who are the most effective sources of racism in this... You think white supremacy is happening in America? Obviously, yeah. I don't know what America you're looking at. But I just think ordinary Americans and rural Americans who are white actually have more in common with black people in terms of being down-to-earth people instead of being these stiff liberals who do epitomize what we would consider white supremacy. That's why Trump was such a uniting force for people with any decency. Well, in many ways, you could say that liberals were even more, far more white supremacists than Trump because he was more relatable and more down-to-earth, whereas they are more obsessed with purity and political correctness. And many have pointed out that this is a feature of white supremacy, but regardless, yeah. Are your parents more conservative or liberal? They're really not non-political, yeah. You got it. We'll jump into the Q&A. This has been an enjoyable one to say the least. So we're gonna jump into these questions. Want to remind you of a couple of things. One, if you have a question, feel free to fire it into the old live chat. We'll go for about 30 minutes. And also, our guests are linked in the description. So if you want to hear more of James Hake or Infrared, you can, and that includes, if you're listening via podcast, because we put all of our guest links in the description box for each podcast episode as well. And so you can find their links there as well. So jumping right into it with this first one from Lin Yan Qin says, debate is useless noise that never resolves anything. It just, it's just praddling for amusement. Men don't do that, but beta males do.  Thank you. I appreciate that Lin Yan Qin. Next up, Shaggy Boy says, let's go. And Anna Rodriguez says, I love you, Hake. Nice, love you too. Ozzie and says, you convinced me, Havoc. Is Havoc like some sort of slang word? Is that, are they trying to make fun of you, Hake? They say, I'm an atheist, so I must be communist sarcasm. Then they say, thanks for convincing me that I am not on your team. Well, all atheism is not communists, but all communism is atheist. Juicy, this one coming in from Chris Mordlox. Says, there are almost as many people in China that identify as religious as there are in the US about 120 million. Why is this, James? Well, there may be, I mean, there's so many, there's so many people in China for one. But, you know, under hard life, I don't know if they are real Christians. It's hard to know. It's hard to know how many real Christians there are in America. So many, as Haiz pointed out, so much of the organized religions, it's just filled with phony people. And so I don't know, maybe the tough times are making a Christian movement rise in China, but for sure there is a, they have to suppress themselves. They don't have the freedom of speech. And I've heard of struggle sessions in communist worlds where they just, they don't really, they try to force people to believe things that aren't true. And if you don't believe it, you go through what Dave Chappelle is going through, or worse, really. You got it, and this one coming in for infrared. Kevin Don asks, why can communists openly be on all big tech platforms, but NAZIS can't? Yeah, I think the issue is that there's just not a lot of people who are informed about communism. And the mainstream political establishment hasn't had to deal with, there has been a very clear neo-Nazi phenomenon. There's been a kind of right wing, ultra-right movement in the United States.  So I think that pretty much explains the majority of the reason why you don't really see a crackdown on it, just because it's not really that it's politically relevant to the U.S. beyond recently becoming a symbol of the liberal democratic extremists, right? But beyond then, beyond that, I think it's all related to politics, I guess.   I've been accused of being a white chauvinist. And this was all because I insisted on the fact that communists have to be patriots. And that doesn't mean you agree with everything your government does or you agree with your government. It means you have a love of your country and its people and your people, right? And for that reason, I have been attacked and called a white supremacist, which is ironic because I'm not sure if I am considered white. It's not something I pay a lot of attention to, but my parents are from Lebanon. I'm from an Arab background. So it's really weird how people are trying to use race against me when... White enough, you're white enough to be hated, I guess. Yeah. This one coming in from Chris Moorlach. For you again, Hake! They say there are 44 million Christians in China for comparison, there are in total about 18 million, so far less, Chinese people that live in the US. How is the people's Republic of China against Christians? It's kind of... Look it up. A question. This one from Chris Moorlach says... America is against Christians, by the way, just FYI. But anyway. Says, quote, religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. Unquote Karl Marx. That's nice. It's tough times do make you turn to God sometimes, and that's important. Karl Marx, although he was a blind atheist, was right about that, I guess. This one coming in from John Cramer says... I'm here to support Hake! Of the Hake Report. Says, keep speaking the truth, brother. Also, thank you for having this platform. Thanks for your encouragement, John. And as mentioned, Hake, they are here to support you, Hake. Thank you, appreciate that. Black Lenin says, question for Jake. I think they mean Hake, but it might also be Hank. They say, what do you think of the labor aristocracy? Do you deny it? What's your thoughts? I have no idea what that is, the labor aristocracy. By the way, it just made me think we need tea and Earl here. Red-blooded Republican Trumps says, how do you explain, sorry to cut your name off there, friend. I know it probably says more than that, but it says Red-blooded Republican Trump, dot, dot, dot. How do you explain the current failures of communism in America being the American Indian reservations? I don't know exactly what that's referring to, but I think the failure of the communist movement within the United States, I think is a theoretical issue. It's the problem is the type of people, intellectuals, who are attracted to communism, are attracted to it because they're anti-social, and I guess they were the losers in life, and they turned to communism for that reason. But I don't know how this relates to the reservation system, but I think that's how to explain the failure of the movement to ever really be able to kick off here. I think he's pointing out that the American Indians, they get payouts, whether it's from the casino payouts and things like that, and that ends up being debilitating to them, and so they don't end up doing for themselves and working for themselves and taking responsibility. I've known some Indians who got kicked out of their Indian tribe, and that was honestly the best thing for them. They quit being deadbeats. They started working and got their lives together and had families. Well, I think all I would say to that, I'm not really familiar with the situation of the reservation system, but what I do know about it is an important part of communism is sovereignty. It's being able to have the necessary level of control and self-determination over your community. And as far as the reservation system is concerned, it has been a form of, we all know that there has been various treaties violated and the way in which Indians, or I don't know if I have to say Native Americans, have been treated by the US government has been very unfair, and they have not had a good deal as far as I would put it, if you wanna put it in Trumpian terms. So I don't know if it'd be a good example of communism as much, maybe internalized corruption, and yeah. You seem to have like that same woman's mindset, if you will allow me, in that you have like this feeling sorry for these different so-called oppressed groups, these minorities, if you will, the Indians, American Indians. Well, Trump talked about how the current US government wasn't, it wasn't a good deal for the American people. The policies of our government and its industrial policy. That's true. American people were getting ripped off. It's not necessarily making excuses or blaming. It's just pointing out that the Native Americans or so on, they haven't had a good deal, right? They've been, as far as their relation to the US government is concerned and that should be investigated, but it's a complex issue. But the one thing I will say is that I don't think it's an example of communism and that's something I can be certain of without knowing much else. You got it. And this one coming in from Creole Debunk says, Hank, have you heard about cybernetic economy? Any objection to that? And I don't even know what, can you tell us what it is? Hank, if you know what it is. I cannot, cybernetic or cybernetic economy? They put it with a K, cybernetic. Maybe they meant cybernetic, I don't know. I don't know. If Haas knows the answers to these questions, he's welcome, but I don't know. I think it means cybernetic, but I think it's a complex issue. Did you know that other thing, the labor, he said the... That's like a community meme. Just a guy I debated before. Okay. You got it. And long night's YouTube and long time viewer, good to see you says, how do we explain the government putting drugs in the street, creating the war on drugs, snatching the father out of the home, then acting like white people, know how to solve our problems, when you've created them. I think they said, Hank at the end. So I think that's for you, Hank. So I didn't put the drugs in their community. I didn't take the father out of their home. And honestly, the best thing for them, if the government was involved in that, I know the government did bribe them to have the father out of the home. That is a bribe. And I know that they made conditions tough or whatever for people in general to make a living nowadays or buy a property. But the best thing for us, and I think this is addressing the communists that false imitation of logic, that false imitation of manhood is responsibility. If the black community who surrendered their fathers took responsibility for that, rather than continue to blame the government, which is evil and it is against them and us and everybody, then they would be doing much better. And I think that that's why I'm concerned about whites and white anger and the appeal of this version of communism that's not so anti-white is appealing to that anger, which is the lie that you have a right to be angry and to blame when you're better off just taking responsibility. And then you will have the strength to fight back in the right way and you'll have the wisdom too.  I think black people are taking responsibility, but they're also trying to point out that they don't want people outside their community to try and force things on them. So I think that's part of it. It's part of having your own self-determination. I don't know what you mean by people outside their community forcing things on them. Well, I think black people know what's best for themselves. They know the best answers to their own. If they did, would they be voting 96, 98% for Democrats? Well, voter turnout is very low. I know, but would they be doing that if they did? I can't speak on behalf of them. I'm not myself black and I don't, I wouldn't- But you can see. We've got a fresh one coming in. This one coming in. Amazing! Annihilation prism says for Hake, Lenin praised Washington's 1776 and Lincoln's anti-slavery crusade in the Civil War as revolutionary in his letter to the American workers, what is your response to that? It's a red flag. I think there's a lot of melodrama about slavery and this pretense that it, they make it sound worse than it really was. I think there's much worse evil today. I think the Democrats today are much more evil than the Democrats who own the slaves. And the 1776 thing. It's a nice sentiment. I get that they want to latch on and support the revolution. But I think our revolution, as far as my impression, was more righteous and based in God and nature and nature is God, whereas the communists are atheists. You got it. And that is it for questions. We do want to say folks, our guests are linked in the description. We really do appreciate these guys. The debaters are the lifeblood of the channel so you can find their links. Well, I think, come on. We can't, most Americans understand that slavery is probably the biggest historical evil in this country. I think, I mean, look, we gotta, we can't say. I mean, surely you understand slavery is a great historical evil, right? I don't know. There were decent and indecent slave owners. And it's not ideal. It's not ideal to have slavery, but it's not ideal what we have today. And we have actual mass killings of babies in the world. Look, I think on this point, that's just a red line that I don't think I could ever come to an agreement with you. Like that, I think that is way beyond the realm of conceivability for just normal, even just normal Americans. Like, it's an, like slavery is the, it's evil was so unprecedented in the history of humanity that like, yes, absolutely, absolutely. And yeah, that is just- I mean, it was a reality of all of history. No, the slavery that existed in the United States was qualitatively different than historical slavery because it was a modern form of slavery where slave owners were able to do whatever they wanted. There was no like, you know- We made them Christians? And in the past, slavery merely referred to relation of power that existed before ambiguously, right? In the Islamic world, slaves were able to actually take power, right? So it was an ambiguous thing. Slaves were castrated in the Islamic world. Look, that's just coming left field, right? It's just left field to talk about America, to try and downplay the crimes of American slavery. We fought a civil war to eliminate that evil from the face of this country. You did not. Millions, millions died in that war. And, you know, just, I think it was fundamentally anti-patriotic to try and downplay the historical evil of slavery. Well, part of that is the an attack on the South. The beautiful South is more Christian, more down to earth, more decent, honestly, to the black community than anybody else in America. But regardless of the South today, we did fight a civil war to eliminate slavery and to downplay- We did not. They did. To downplay the historical evil of slavery is a form of treason, in my view, against the very basis of this country, right? Well, honestly, they were not treasonous when they fought against the North. They had legitimate grievances. We can't, we don't have time to get into a debate about the question of the civil war, but I do find it extremely appalling and inhuman to speak about slavery in this way, you know? I think it's, I think it's inhuman. You will never be able to come to a common understanding or a common point of unity with the various different peoples in this country if you try to downplay the historical evils and injustices. I'm telling the reality of it. The black community. No, I think, I don't even think we adequately represent the Trump's own movement when you say this. I think even Trump's movement can admit the extreme historical evil that is slavery and to stoop to such a low level so as to try and downplay that- That's a performance.  I think that is fundamentally appalling. Blacks should be grateful to be in this country. They should be grateful for that by way of slavery. No, that's just, what you're saying is just a bunch of nonsense.  What you're saying is nonsense.  Black people fundamentally played an instrumental part in building this country. You're talking about they should be great. That's complete nonsense. They should be grateful. No, no, no. Should they not be grateful to be here now?   This is communism. And by saying this, actually by saying this, you're serving the current establishment because you're trying to sow unneeded and unnecessary racial division by saying something so anti-human and inhumane. No, you people support abortion. Give me a break. We're not talking about abortion right now. We're talking about- That's much worse. That's much worse than it's happening today. We are talking about the fact that it's your insult against the black people of this country. You're the one insulting them. Fundamentally incompatible with any pretense that you wanna see past the divisions and get to a point of unity.  You should be ashamed of yourself.  You think like a female. You're treating the blacks- You're speaking about thinking like a female. Like a woman.   No, that's just melodrama. Or you're being deliberately malicious. No, you have to use the misery. You have to use the anger. You have to use the false anger about something long past in order to keep in order to pop up your communism. Listen, you are saying unspeakably evil things. If someone was advocating in favor of pedophilia, would you not be angry? It's long over. What if someone was defending pedophilia? Wouldn't that make you a little bit angry? They do it all the time. They do it all the time. Okay, but human beings should be angry when people say unspeakably evil. No, you fight evil.  That is fundamentally an evil thing you're saying. No, it's not. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Slavery was one of the greatest historical evils in the history of humanity. How so? Because it was the modern form of slavery. It's literally in the name. People were reduced to objects. They didn't even have the minimal status of being recognized as human beings. I understand. It's not idea. And the devastation that this has caused to the black community and the scars of this evil to this very day. Not true. That's a lie. That's a lie. Absolutely, absolutely. The only scars are the anger that you keep alive. You talk about issues facing the black family. What event in history could be more catastrophic for building the foundation of a family than something like slavery? Slavery, they had their families more than today. And they had their families after slavery more than today. It was the 60s and 70s right now. No, that's real. Look it up. An infamous cruelty of the slavery. No, you're ignorant right here. Listen, we fought a civil war to eliminate this evil. You did not stop saying we. We did. I am an American out of Florida, this country. I'm just as much of an American as you are. And I am an American citizen. So yes. You're feeling sorry for the blacks. We did fight that. You're feeling sorry for people long dead. I am not feeling sorry. Yes, you are. I'm feeling my patriotic duty. No, man. Of honoring the tradition and history of this country to fight and eliminate from the face of the earth the widely recognized historical evil of this country. That is all I'm doing. You didn't even explain how it's evil. I didn't explain how it's evil that we say all men and women, all men are born equal. And yet some people live in chains and are reduced. They're attempted to reduce to the status of cattle and animals. I think it's self-evident. The way we made them Christians. We, they were happy. There's nothing, nothing Christian about the institution of slavery. It's a mimicry of a pagan form. It's irrelevant. A pagan form of Roman slavery. The Confederates were among, the leaders of the Confederates were among the debauched, depraved and decadent elites in history. Some of them were. They had nothing to do with Christianity. They were more honorable than you or me. Secretly there, you had the elements of paganism and complete anti-Christianity among. This has nothing to do with Christianity whatsoever. The most fervent Christians at the time were fighting to free their fellow man from the bondage of slavery. John Brown was fundamentally religious before. He was, he was absolutely- He was an angry terrorist.  Is this slavery in Africa?  And meanwhile the union army was singing his song. This is communism by any means necessary. Just anger and lies. Listen. And murder. Human beings have the right to be angry about fundamentally unjust things. Not true. Yeah. No, they don't have the right to be angry. Where the blacks enslaved in Africa. Is that evil? They absolutely do. And you are playing into the tropes of the media that all conservatives are racist, which I do not fundamentally believe.  I think it is fundamentally racist to try and downplay the historical evil of slavery. And you are particularly insulting the black community. No. To such an extent that no possible inroads or alliance or reaching out is possible between- Blacks calling into my show every day agreeing with me. They're not as soft-hearted as you think. If you were to say that slavery was not that bad, I do not think you would have people believe- Why do you need it to be so bad? It's not that I need it to be bad. It is a matter of historical record that it was a fundamental evil. It's inscribed into the very basis of our country as from the Civil War. The Civil War wasn't- In order to ignore the present day evils that we have going on right now. It's insane. Listen, you honestly sound more like a Democrat right now than anything else. For you to apologize for slavery, which Democrats also did at the time is just fundamentally appalling and revolting. Are Democrats not worse today than during slavery? Therefore killing the babies in the womb? Listen, there is no need to lie about the historical record and change things to such an extent in this way. If anything, are you kidding me? Have you seen the people making a melodrama about slavery? Every slavery movie, the 1619 project, just outright lies about how bad slavery was. The way you combat the lies of the 1619 project is not to deny the historical evil of slavery, but to recognize that it was the intention of the founding fathers from the outset to eliminate this evil. And the Civil War was the manifestation of this inevitable historical mission. A historical mission I would call a holy mission even. I think that it's just that, just as you can't recognize good, you can't properly recognize evil. So I think that that's- Well, we are not going to be able to- I think you're getting emotional about it. We are not going to be able to agree upon this. No, I know, I understand that. What's the way? But your argument is emotional. Well, it's not simply a- And communism is slavery. Listen, you have said something fundamentally appalling and anti-human. That's all I can say. No, no, it's not anti. Abortion is anti-human. And the Democrats today- Listen, there is no need- There is no need- Address that. Address abortion. There's no need to insult an entire group of people by trying to downplay the historical evil of slavery. The last thing they need is people feeling sorry for them and pretending that it was so bad. They did not even experience it. I don't think American conservatives agree with you. We're talking about a very normal baseline. And that's why they lose. No. Conservatives are losing. You are beyond the threshold of sanity. No, Ben. We've got a few more questions that just came in. This one from Chris Morlock says, how can James Hake claim to be a Christian when he cannot see evil is slavery? Because slavery is not inherently evil. It's not ideal. You don't want it. If you can get your freedom, you should do so. I suppose I'm happy. I don't know if I'm happy about the way it went down. I hear a lot of things about that stuff.  Long night, YouTube, and says, as a black man, thank you, infrared. Sim. Shaggy Boy says, y'all read Streamlabs? We don't have Streamlabs. It kept crashing on us. Amazing. But based on it says, Hank, how is an economic system that encourages greed and envy more Christian than one that promotes equality and helping your fellow man? That's what communism is. It's based on envy. It's based on covetousness. It's based on jealousy and anger and a false sense of justice, playing God when you're not God.  How does it feel to think like a woman? I told you, that's gonna get us in trouble with terms of slavery. Sorry, my bad. How do you see? I think Stalinist says, Hank, how, we got that one. Chris Moorlach says, Hank, or Hank, does the Bible not say in Exodus 2116, quote, whoever steals a man and sells him and anyone found in possession of him shall be put to death? I think that was talking about fellow Israelites. Even the Black Hebrew Israelites themselves who might talk to you, they're pro-slavery. They just don't wanna enslave one another. Gotcha. There might be one more. This one coming in from Hitch Wagster says, Haas, aren't you framing slavery as a past evil and ignoring all the slavery that we still have today? No, my position is crystal clear. All I am doing is doing the baseline recognition that slavery was an utmost historical evil that should not be apologized for, downplayed, or there should be no revisionism of this fact. We should recognize this baseline fact. We fought a war that tore this country apart on the basis of the recognition of this fact. It's as simple as that. In Islamic countries, they were castrated in African countries. They're enslaved to this day. I don't think that, I think you're downplaying the worldwide evil. I don't downplay, I'm not downplaying any instance or evil of slavery whatsoever, but I'm just recognizing the qualitatively distinct and distinctly evil nature of slavery on the American continent, specifically leading up to the Civil War. How old are you? 25. Yeah, see, that's why you're brainwashed in this way. When I was, I'm 40. When I was in school, we learned that there were good and bad slave owners. Listen, I think this view is fundamental. Common sense says though. This view is fundamentally incompatible with communism. This is like saying there can be a good and bad rapist. There's nothing to do. There's nothing about slavery that's rape. Yes, there certainly is actually. Yes, there is. Nope. Actually, they're fundamentally is. And it's on, it's a matter of historical record and widely documented. I recognize that there may have been rapes that took place, but that's rape. Rape is wrong. Slavery is not ideal, but it's not rape. And the two were fundamentally intertwined with one and another. You're making that claim, but again, there were no common sense says it's a matter of historical fact. So every slave owner committed a rape against every slave. Listen, the two were fundamentally intertwined as a phenomena. You're making it, you're making it. Okay, we are speaking nonsense. Let's continue to move on. Clear as mud, just muddying the waters. This question coming in from Steve, who says I could be wrong. Maybe I misheard him, but did James Hake say that slaves were quote, treated well? They were treated well. Many were treated well. They were raised Christian. Some were even taught to read, which reading was not widespread even among whites. So overall we treated them quite well compared to many other cultures. This one coming in from Adam Albilia. Good to see a longtime viewer says infrared. It seems like what Hake is trying to say is that, quote, you haven't demonstrated how enslaving people is evil. Yep. I think it's a matter of, it's a self-evident and absurd. It's the reason why it's just self-evident. If we have to get to a point where we have to debate about why slavery is fundamentally evil, then everything else becomes up to debate too, right? I don't want to arrive at a situation where we have to start debating about things like pedophilia and things we know intuitively and inherently to be wrong.  You're lost about that. Like I said, there are things, there are lines we should not cross as human beings as a matter of basic human decency and humanity. Sorry. This one coming in from Hakeem says, Hake, how do you react to the British deep state's attempt to assassinate Lincoln by supporting unpatriotic John Wilkes Booth and the Confederacy? Also shout out to infrared and RTSG. I don't know much about that, but it sounds like it was evil fighting against maybe evil. I don't know whether Abraham Lincoln was good or evil because you can't trust any history nowadays, much less the mainstream media present day. You got it. And with that, do want to remind you our guest or link to the description folks. It has been a lively one to be sure. And we are excited for this other lively one that I had mentioned earlier in the stream as we have confirmed it just a couple of weeks ago. Destiny and Stefan Molyneux, in the last week of this month, you don't want to miss it. That's going to be a juicy one. So hit that subscribe button and want to say, thanks again, James Hake, as well as infrared. It has been a juicy one to say the least. Thank you guys, appreciate that. Okay. Thank you. And I'll be back in a moment folks to give you updates on upcoming debates. So stick around for that. Okay. And to be sure folks, I hope you were all doing part of the political spectrum you come from. We do want to say we are thrilled to have you here at Modern Day Debate. Want to say hello to you in the old live chat. I see many of you in there. Some of you, a lot of you knew as well. So want to say we're thrilled to see you if you are new, we're thrilled to see you if you have been here for a long time. Alex Kotzi, am I pronouncing it right? Let me know. Solomon Unorthodox, we hope you're doing well. Ruthless Gaming, glad you are here as well as Willie Powell and ADN. Glad you are with us. Our father in the green pumped you here as well as George Lincoln Rockwell's ghost. Thanks for dropping by as well as Hitch Wagster. Thanks for coming by. Glad you are with us as well as Pineapple. Platypus. Did I pronounce it right? We're pumped you're here. And we are excited about a lot. Oh, did I really miss your super chat? Uttadvara, one. I am sincerely sorry. Let me pull that up. And I am seriously, I do owe you one. So let me know, I can Venmo that back to you because I really do take that seriously. I do not ever want to, like, I never purposely miss anybody's super chat. Let me look forward in here. Utt, oh you did. You said Roman slaves genetically replaced Italic masters. I am so sorry that I did miss that. You are right. And there was another one from, oh my gosh, I missed several. Let's see. This one coming in, appreciate your cowboy hat from Jacko Juhani. Thank you very much. And then, Steve, I got yours, I got yours. Okay, sorry about that. But yeah, thanks for letting me know about that. I really do appreciate that feedback as that helps us grow as a channel and helps me become a little bit sharper. Davos Holdos, good to see you as well, as well as Ruthless Gaming. Thanks for dropping by. But yes, Davos Holdos, I am rocking my basketball shorts, you guys. I believe me when you see me in person because we are excited. I don't know if you heard about this, but we are planning something big. This January, an in-person conference, similar to VidCon, similar to TwitchCon, modern day debate is going to have our own conference, DebateCon. And it is going to be epic. Believe me, it's in the works. Some of the flights are already booked. So I am thrilled for that, my dear friends. We have got a lot of details to let you know about that as we are going to do a crowdfund for it and we are going to actually, for the first time ever, have seats available live and in person. We are planning on Dallas, Texas. You, if you are in that area, do not want to miss this, it's going to be epic. So I'm very excited about that, to say the least. It is going to be a three day conference. So this is big time, folks. This isn't like our half day kind of traveling on tour debates. Those are fun and they're cool. Don't get me wrong, but this is big time. We are going for it. We're throwing a real Hail Mary with this.  Glad you made it as well as absolute death. Pumped you were here, amazing. Ruthless gaming, pumped you were here as well as Willie Powell. And human girl, pumped to see you. What's up, soy guzzler? And thrilled to have you here. Timothy P. Southwick, thanks for dropping in. Man right, glad you were here as well as in hacks, good to see you again. And Caligula says, hit the like button. I agree and thank you, Caligula, for your support. We can make it to 190 likes. We are so close, believe me. If you've forgotten, you're like, oh yeah, did I hit the like button? I don't know, I haven't even looked down at the like button this whole time. Now is your chance. We can get it. We're at 186, we have one more already. And John Edwards, good to see you. He says, have a good night, James. Thank you for your kind words. And William Runner, good to see you as well as our father in the green, as well as grillers paradise. Thanks for coming by, as well as Chris Gammon, pumped to have you here, Chris, and pumped to see you in person in January. It's going to be amazing. We are very excited about this, folks. It is seriously going to be big time. We are working really hard to make this amazing. Isn't that amazing? But Willie Powell, good to see you. We are pumped, you were with us, as well as Doom Paul and La Tornado. Thanks for dropping in. And Smoke, pumped you are with us as well as Catherine Payne and Bubblegum Gun. Good to see you there. As well as Sideshow Nav. Are you still in the chat? Man, I'm pumped. Sideshow Nav has had so many great ideas of what this conference. I gotta give him all the credit. He has given us some epic ideas, including some like kind of like extra features of the conference. And it is seriously going to be absolutely awesome, believe me. But also, as I mentioned, it's going to be awesome with Stephen Malinu and Stephen, AKA Destiny on this month. The end of the month, it is going to be tremendous. It is going to be big and it is going to be the meeting, the clashing of two world views with Stephen and Stephen. It is going to be a juicy one, my dear friends. We're excited about it. We're also excited about a lot of other ones, though. Let me tell you about some other ones coming up. In particular, this Friday night, whether or not the moon landing was a hoax. That's right.  We like everything. But also, this Saturday morning, whether or not space exploration as a whole is a hoax. For example, Russia Sputnik, is that phony too? Is it all a global hoax that no country has gone to space, that no country has sent robots to Mars? I don't know. We're going to debate it this Saturday morning. You don't want to miss it, folks. If you're sick like us and you like juicy topics, well, be sure to hit that subscribe button and make sure you see those debates. Raymond 11 says, get some new mods. They don't like free speech. Well, that's the trick Raymond 11 is that we do because we are thankful that YouTube has helped us grow to a pretty significant degree. I mean, like I said, one of our videos has over a million impressions by itself. That means YouTube showed that video. It recommended that video to a million people. So that is pretty big. And so we really do actually want to follow YouTube Terms of Service because they've helped us grow a lot. So we don't want to cut off the branch that we are sitting on. That wouldn't be very rational, would it? But I do appreciate that you like it easy going here. And I'd say we are a pretty easy going live chat. So I would say the moderators are doing a good job and they're doing exactly as I've encouraged them and recommended and so we do appreciate the moderators. Thank you so much moderators for all you've done. And, but yes, I've got to tell you my dear friends, we're pumped up with the future, big time stuff. We're gonna have a couple of Islam debates. It is going to be epic. This three-day conference will have one science day, one religion day and one politics day. Each day we'll have nothing but debates from that you could say topic or genre and it is going to be as my dear friend, Sideshow Nav says, off the hook and aero, aero flash, pumped that you made it and thanks for your support said, I missed the show but I came to press like anyway. Well, thanks for that support, that means a ton. And Mr. Anderson, good to see you again. Black Cat, glad you made it as well as BGBoy4, pumped you were here. Sideshow Nav is here, there he is. You guys think it's weird that I wear a blazer and basketball shorts. Bob told me I should never bring this up because he starts bringing it up and I'm like, no, Bob, no.  Nasty guy, I don't know, he's up to all sorts of stuff over there. But I am telling you, I made that up, obviously. But we are pumped. You guys are gonna say, Bob has been giving great ideas for this huge in-person conference and I am pumped and so I do wanna say huge thanks to Bob. Thank you also. If you didn't know we have a Discord, my friends. We're at 194 likes, 195 likes. We can get five more to get to 200. If you haven't hit that like button yet, we can get to 200, we got it. This is a piece of cake. We appreciate your support of the channel and likes do help very for real. Hey, it's something, it's like, hey, doesn't cost you anything and it doesn't cost you more than a second, doesn't cost you a dime and it supports the channel as we really do appreciate that engagement and we do appreciate YouTube. Like I said, YouTube shows our videos to a lot of people. We have to say, we are thankful for that and this one coming in from, oh, that's right, we do have an epic Discord. So let me tell you folks, if you have not already checked out this Discord, let me share it with you right now. I'm putting it in the live chat and I'm encouraging you, if you enjoy Discord, the modern day debate Discord is in the live chat right now. So I do encourage you check that out as we are pumped about that and we wanna encourage you to check it out. It's a great community. I have to say Larry, I mean, AKA Rupert, AKA Let's Farm. Let's Farm does a great job and I am super thrilled that Rupert, AKA Let's Farm, does a superb job with the Discord. So seriously, Let's Farm, thanks so much for doing a fantastic job there. And we're at 198 likes. It's so close, my dear friends. And thanks to your super chat. Cillian Holland says, hey, hey, you said something about $1 per hour working your opening. Do you think that's a reasonable wage for any job at all? They must be back earlier in the debate because this is a live stream. So I'm guessing they haven't caught up yet. They might have forgotten to like pull that little red line back to where it's live. But got your six. Glad you were here as well as Catherine Payne. Thanks for coming by. Says I look forward to the next debate. Thanks Catherine, that seriously means a lot. And I've got to tell you though, we have many more juicy debates to come. This month is going to be an epic one. We're working on one that if it happens, I'm serious, I think it's gonna be just ginormous. It's just gonna be just epic. And so we're really excited about that. But I have to tell you about a couple of things. One, human girl, check your Snapchat. I have a detail about the conference that you must hear about. And in addition to that, my dear friends, if this is your first time here at Modern Day Debate, if you're like, huh, what's this? What say ye about, what is this Modern Day Debate? Well, let me tell you, believe me, we have recognized folks that people from across political boundaries, from across religious boundaries, across races, across sex, it doesn't matter, gay, straight, black, white, you name it, Trump supporter, Democrat, Biden backer, whatever you wanna call yourselves, I can tell you this, we all agree on one thing, there is one shared value that all of us converge on. And it's because it's a value seated deeply within our hearts, namely that everybody wants a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field. And that's what Modern Day Debate is. My dear friends, YouTube has debate channels out there. Some of them, in my opinion, the topics are stale and outdated, we try to listen to you, we want to host the topics that you love. Second of all, some debate platforms, totally biased, the moderator will jump in and start debating people. Again, YouTube deserves a better class of debate channel and we're gonna give it to them. That's what Modern Day Debate is and believe me folks, join us while we are small because we are thrilled, don't get me wrong, I'm thankful, 57,700 subscribers is absolutely thrilling, we appreciate your support and you have made this channel what it is because it's an eclectic mix of ideas and people and that is what has made it so unique and so special. And we have to tell you though folks, this is just the beginning, we are going to keep growing and my dear friends, we are on a determined march to hit over 60,000 subscribers by the end of the year, before the end of the year and we're absolutely determined. In the future, we will be known as YouTube's primary, premier neutral debate platform such that you will see someday. PewDiePie and MrBeast have a debate on Twitter and they say, you know what, we should do this on video and someone says, you know what? Why don't you go to Modern Day Debate and somebody else will also tweet and say, yeah, I've heard about Modern Day Debate too, they're a fair platform.  How is that a neutral debate channel?  There are many things like that, many ways in which people have helped us such as when you guys have shared ideas or like, hey, here's an idea for a topic, what do you think? All of those things add up. When you share videos, when you click that share button and you share it with people who like debates or people who like politics or whatever the topic is, that helps a lot, it really does so we do wanna say thanks for all of your support. We are at 200 likes, thanks for your support friends. Having that support from hundreds of people live while on stream, seriously, that means a lot, it goes a long way and by the way, I've gotta tell you, I've got good news. As I'm so encouraged, the debate podcast has just continued to grow and I'm so thankful because I wasn't sure if people would use it, I was like, should I keep uploading these and I'm so thankful that a lot of, sometimes people even say, hey, I found out about you through the podcast. They say, at first I found your podcast, then I heard about the YouTube channel because I listened to your podcast so we are excited it's growing there as well and that people are getting use out of that and I gotta tell you folks, if you didn't know that, we are on podcast, let me show you, you might not trust me, you're like, oh, James, I don't know, are you really? Let me show you. You can open up your favorite podcast app right now just like I just did and you can see right there, see that logo, the top in the middle, that big, beautiful logo, Modern Day Debate, thanks so much to Potsl for your help with that. That is the Modern Day Debate podcast as all of our debates within 24 hours are uploaded onto our app or I should say our podcast. My dear friends, highly encourage you, check it out. I've told you, I like to listen to it. A lot of people like long form content. If you need something, you're like, I need something to listen to while I'm on my drive to work or while I'm riding the train to work or while I'm going to pick up groceries or cleaning around the house, whatever it is, highly encourage you. You got your phone right now. I'm sure you do. You can pull out your favorite podcast app and click away on Modern Day Debate. Letornale, good to see you as well as Melkuthx. Thanks for being here with us. Clown, good to see you. It's his favorite debate so far. Man, I gotta tell you, last Saturday was gigantic. I seriously love that one. If you guys missed that one, it was very controversial. And by the way, I'm not joking. It was gigantic. We had from that debate about 1,000 new subscribers just from that debate. So really encouraged by that. We are excited as people are joining the movement. My dear friends, it's not just a debate channel. It's not just a podcast, but it is a movement as people want to see a neutral platform that will truly call a strike, a strike, call it right down the middle, be as fair and objective as possible. And that's what we are doing here. And we want to say thank you so much for your support of it. You guys have made it fantastic. I'm very serious about that. I'm just super thrilled about all of your support seriously. Let's see here. The chat's moving fast on me. Let me catch up. Science Works in Mysterious Ways says well, sad, and I totally agree. Thanks for your kind words. That means a lot. I really do appreciate that. Thanks for your kind words. Willie Powell says, modern day debate, good job. Lewis Giles says, absolutely amazing. Thanks for your support, Lewis Giles. Seriously, it means more than you know. Human Girl says, yay, and I'm a beta. I don't know why you always tell us that. You don't have to say that. But, Le Tornado, thanks for your support. Clown says, what was the best debate for you so far? Man, I don't know. I also love, it is, and it's also the one that's like our biggest debate is Matt DeLahunty versus Inspiring Philosophy. That was an epic debate. It was also in person, which made it fun, which is why it also were pumped about this conference. It's gonna be juicy. And then, let's see. Anne Hacks, good to see you. Our father in green, thanks for your support. And so, wanna say thanks everybody. I love you guys, seriously.  You guys make this a blast. And I love doing this. I love getting to hang out with you and say hello to you. And my dear friends, we are excited about the future. Let me just think about upcoming debates. What else that I can think of? It's a juicy one. If you haven't already figured it out, folks, sometimes it's a little bit wild here. Sometimes it goes a little bit off the rails, but don't worry, folks. We are putting the fun back in dysfunctional. As this debate channel, it's true. Sometimes things get a little bit wild. We let it go pretty loosely, you could say, because we really do want the speakers to feel that they have the freedom to say what they wanna say as they make their case. And so, it is true. It's gonna be rocky. This isn't your grandma's debate channel. But as mentioned, the reason why we are all behind it is because we want a truly fair platform. Something that we can all get around, that we can all get behind, is that it for us is a part of our values. A part of the things we cherish most, the things that we are absolutely determined to fight for. And we are excited. And my dear friends, we have got hope and optimism that things are going to continue growing. And we wanna say thanks for your support as we have big plans for the future. We are optimistic. And thank you, Sillian. Let's see, thank you and hacks for your kind words and your support. Thanks Hannah Anderson for your kindness and support. I appreciate that. And Sillian Holland, thanks for your super chat. I don't know if you realize we're, I think like I said, you might be earlier in the debate, but I wanna say thank you for that support. Just remember that, yes, it's a, but yes, we do appreciate you. And Benjamin, thanks for coming by. Good to see you. So thanks you guys. I love you guys. Let's see, Steve says, invite them back for a debate on race and slavery. Hey, that's a juicy one. That could be wild to be sure. And so I wanna say thanks for that idea, but thank you guys. I love you guys.  I hope you guys have a great rest of your night. And I'm excited to see you later this week as we will have it is going to be juicy. This Friday debate and then this Saturday as well. My dear friends, I am excited for the future. Thank you guys for all your support. We're optimistic and we've got hope and excitement for that future. So thanks for your support. And I look forward to seeing you next time, everybody. Have a great rest of your night. Amazing.