I feel like it's a game that everyone at the table said an idea and they all agreed all right. Well, all right guys Everyone's idea can be in doom eternal It's just a bloated slog of a game I think I still like it I but the fact that I haven't finished it says a lot because I beat doom 2016 very quickly Yeah, I was like a two-setting game where I beat doom 2016. I was all over that but this game It's just I got it. I'm gonna have to like push myself to finish doom eternal I Think I will as well, which is a shame Because compared to compare to aria in the will of the wisps, which I beat pretty promptly Like I beat that in a couple days. I Just want to play like almost anything else.   Let me show you So I just was Hold on I just clicked on your channel more or so that I could see the Like, you know the stream and well, I was actually gonna say I don't know if you guys know this but pretty much all streamers That I know recently they're not sending out notifications for streams just at all really so and so not only the view counts like a suffering but they also deteriorate really quickly because There's a point where people just don't even know you're doing it anymore And I figure that it's probably smart for you to put out on Twitter and stuff But I mean people could see it on Mueller eventually anyway.  I think that's not Um, okay, all right It looks different It looks yeah, it's different All of the icons are a lot bigger and that it's got that sort of that kind of southern California You know design sensibility where it's all rounded and everything's like soft and flat There's no sharp edges anywhere. I think there's a lot of I think it's more sharp edges everywhere Oh, oh, yeah, there's more sharp edges on the um on the like subscribed Bell there and all on the on the buttons, but between the thumbnails and Join subscribed buttons Um, it looks the same to me I okay I'm not sure I just popped it on and then everything I was gonna say I just check mine does look exactly like that And I don't seem new to me. So maybe you just took ages to get some kind of update Yeah, because I like to hold off on update. I I hate these Yeah, same same.  Hey, you want to switch? No, please No, it's better. We promise it's got new features like what like uh, not getting any more notifications anymore There's annoying notifications. All right. You hate those No, oh, well, thank god. I'd see you know, I There's someone competent Some might suggest that that is the removal of a feature, but How come there's that little Tittle thing on your you What's that on mauler? It's got that line on the you. What's that? Uh, that was that was something from the artist. I just don't mind it All right Kind of looks kind of looks like it has some purpose, you know, and therefore cooler. Well, that is the question It's definitely different all on my life Make sure your words are spilled right on your banner there Do you do you know about this chat? Do you know about anything to do with a banner and the weird intellectual recently? No, no, what have I missed? Oh, someone we covered Referred to themselves in their own banner an intellectual point of view for movies or something like that That's how they Consider their own work and they spell intellectual wrong A lot of people were like, don't you get it? It's a joke. He uh, he ended up changing it once people pointed it Oh Like that's the type of mistake I reckon I could make So I make groups on spelling all the time It surprises me it would have gone for so long because like it's his banner He'd think a fan would have zoomed into it in the video. Yeah, he's advertising the channel. He zooms into it.  They would hate all four of us. Yeah. All right Gosh, some of these are let's see the worst part is if he leaned further into the hyperbole I feel like this could be a fun parody of overly pretentious video essayists But instead he's using just right an actually good channel as a basis Even quoting some of his videos and it just muddies any point. He's trying to make other than subjective film analysis bad Um, there's gonna be a lot of uh self Reflection in these comments. I'm gonna be guessing Um, wait a minute. Is that just rights thumbnail? No wonder that it's better than the rest of his videos He is mocking copying an actually good youtuber Remind me again of this guy of I guess why this guy is nearly 300 000 subs So sorry by him saying better. Is that him saying that it was a good video? Yeah Well, whether or not it's a good video. It's superior to every other video I've made which I mean, I appreciate that Your video is like gloriously It is just a lot of words say nothing at all That's the running theme. I'm glad they appreciate the dexter jets that did have an important role in the rise of skywalker I think that it needed to be highlighted They must agree with the sexual tension between It all depends on what kind of lens you look at it at you know, they're using these very phallic weapons that extend Whether in each other's presence. What can I say? Oh They they say someone is like remind me again of why this guy is nearly 300 000 subs And the next guy says because he panders to quote-unquote intellectual. It should be intellectual Fans who want to seem like the smartest in any conversation rather than actually have a discussion because we don't have discussions. No Uh, no, no, so he makes videos that are effectively just endless gatekeeping about how his opinion Is right and everyone else is wrong. Well, here's the thing You can't random commentary You think that all of your opinions are right and everyone else's is wrong That's why you have those things. That's why that's why you hold those opinions because you think they're right The sheer You're all wrong. I hold plenty of opinions that I deem wrong It makes complete sense The audacity of thinking your opinions are correct Why do you why do you have them? Oh, I just picked him. You know, I picked him out of a heart I've even gotten this in real life is a you just think all your opinions are right. It's like, yeah That's one of the prerequisites for holding them If you if you acknowledge that one of your opinions is wrong and you still hold it, then you're just retarded I don't know what to say I'm trying to think of an example of what that would even be like. Yeah, I think blah, blah, blah But I also think that that's a I think slavery is okay, but I know it's wrong Okay, okay. What about what about when you're in an argument someone and you prove them? Logic and facts and then they still hold on to their view even though they've been proven wrong I feel like at least somewhere deep down. I know they're wrong because they just They know but they're not willing to acknowledge it to us. What's yeah What they acknowledge is different than what they actually feel and maybe I believe and maybe they don't know it yet. I guess Um But yeah, the fact that this is something that you see regularly it there's no it's so It's just Like this thing that we all do it's wrong for you Even though of course if you press this person on it, there's no way you'd get him to say Oh, just because I have this opinion doesn't mean it's right That I think it's right. Oh, I don't what a strange freak you are Well, it's interesting. This is very topical to what's going on in my channel in the controversy I'm embroiled in uh with uh this debate of archery historical archery. I'm doing I do that proven pretty categorical that certain things are the certain way with evidence and logic and So many just elitist Our brainlets are like Just not it's really funny because I saw colors. They were like, oh my god. So the archery community is so aggressive I think we need to realize it's just people. It's not about politics or star wars or archery.  Oh, by the way, I before we go on He says effectively just endless gatekeeping Uh good. I want fandoms to be gate kept It depends on how they if you define gatekeeping as being like erroneously keeping people out then no But if you define it as literally just being a keeper of a gate to whether or not something is classified the way It's like, well, yeah Yeah, I I think that when it comes to pretty much any hobby or fandom.  Well, yeah, I'm the whole like enter into it and change it Well, hang on that. Well, I think that's an important distinction because You know trying to deny people enjoyment of something or you know, gatekeeping. I generally don't like as a rule Yeah, um But like in terms of keeping something as it should be like star wars Like not you're like respecting cannon and stuff all on board with you there. I'm all on board Yeah, like expecting cannon is gatekeeping then.   But yeah gatekeeping actually kind of a good thing So there you go. When when used in a pacific. Yeah, because like, you know, I I simultaneously hold the position of like I would never tell someone they're not a fan of something However, if you go like man, it was crazy. There was no lightsaber clash in tlj and someone goes What's up? What's a lightsaber?  They need to take out the violence You know, that would be one of those things like, all right, we need to gatekeeper Come in here and try to change all the things you don't like about something so that now it appeals to you Well, that's the simpsons episode in marge. Uh tries to sanitize itchied scratchy of the Their opening is love and share and love and love and share This show is completely different. It reminds me of the poochie thing as well I think it should be worth pointing out the blast for the past Yeah, the general use of gatekeeping is more of a term of Elitism, I think where people are like no, it must be this way in terms of practice because that's what I've been running in With the archery bullcrap. I'm having fun with at the moment is the gatekeeping that's happening there that Sorry, but even to a degree. I agree with that Yeah It's just funny as well that we're discussing the concept of gatekeeping in a comment that says that we gatekeep the discussion from not happening Yeah, we're discussing it We're failing his comment is so hard right now Um, anyway, he goes on his videos are a quick shorthand for the worst kinds of fans the ones who want to end discussion before it even begins Hmm Okay, that went well. Yeah, I was gonna say that one aged well When dared to confront a different opinion They can just point to one of moller's videos or list off the plot holes that aren't actually plot holes from those videos And instantly own anyone who would dare like an objectively bad movie No, we we love some objectively bad movies. Yeah, we always say it's finally like it Just it's when people claim that it's like really well written. You're like, uh-oh, you know I like the mandalorian and the subject But also like what plot holes aren't plot holes. You just I was gonna say that that makes me wrong Yeah, all the plot holes are pointing out.  And then they say the whole like you say that it's ridiculous to plow a Star destroyer through the floor in terms of damage, but they're immune to that.  I'm offended. I am offended. I will say that Uh, let's see. Uh, next comment.  No It gives me infinite pleasure to know that a trostefanda would have liked my video like they'd be like, this is good. I like this Uh, next comment. How does mauler do something less pretentious and hateful than the movie circle jerk-offs?  Hide the comment. No, the chat will see they'll know They can't find out these themes. No Chat look away It doesn't have a theme But having a theme don't make it good I'm just picturing chat with like big cartoon eyes looking at this call bit like, oh my god, there are themes You lied to us Oh, absolutely. Well, I think we mentioned this before we got started but uh identity I think it is present in the sequel trilogy. It's about rey trying to identify exactly who she is through Uh multiple sources. They've just executed horribly Yeah, because because the overall message was always going to be it's not about where you come from It's about who you are or something like, you know The choices you make but they found like three different ways of saying it and then by the time they finished saying it They're like, so What is she? And the credits roll and we're like, oh Because that's contradicted by the end where it's like rey rey skywalk is like Oh, she's good execution is and then she's Trying to be someone else like execution doesn't seem to be following through What was the thing the the first one was like Your parents aren't going to do it for you. Go find your identity for yourself. Cool second one So your attempt to find your identity, I guess failed because you went for you were still waiting on a bloodline Um, the the end lesson is it's not about them. It's about you. It's like, oh, it's kind of the same as the first movie But okay third movie. It's palpatine. No, it's not really it's whoever you want Oh We spent so time so much time judging what her family might or might not be that we never got to know her All right So this is this is um another very interesting thread I was gonna I was gonna show on you folks. I find it extremely amusing, but uh, you want to give it a read mr. Ragu?  Yeah, you can have opinions that are facts Yeah, I see saying that this is impossible like too stupid to understand his opinion is not fact Well one, I don't think moller ever said that all his opinions are facts So that's a straw man, but some of his opinions are I would say How do you Yeah, like my my favorite color is blue. That's not saying like objectively blue is the best color Yeah, but it is a fact that your favorite color is. Yeah, it's the fact. Oh my god Oh my god So let's see the next person says I think moller is genuinely mentally ill Hahaha Well, it all honesty Ripper Rudy I kind of believe that about all of this a little bit. Yeah It's fine That that next comment though All right, this one should be doozy um I've seen people sincerely speculate that he's somewhere on the autism spectrum Perhaps it's ass burgers It would help explain his obsessive tendencies how incredibly literally he takes things And his struggles with social norms Like when he was confused over joseph anderson someone he doesn't personally know being offended that moller called him a massive wagon It's not that's not the point I totally understand anyone being offended by anything. That's the nature of humanity I'm saying why the hell can you get over it?  He was like no Okay And I you know rags and I we get all kinds of shit thrown at us all the time We're still just like yeah, I mean Well, anyway, I mean if you can I mean Um at the very least I think he has a narcissistic personality disorder I mean just look at the summary from wikipedia NPD narcissistic personality disorder is a personality disorder characterized by a long term pattern of exaggerated feelings of self importance An excessive need for admiration and a lack of empathy towards other people. That's man people with in yeah, it's you to a T People with NPD often spend much time thinking about achieving power and success or on their appearance Typically, they also take advantage of the people around them Such narcissistic behavior typically begins by early adulthood and occurs across a broad range of situations I want to break that one down. Let's let's apply it individually. So, um Long term pattern of exaggerated feelings of self importance. All right. Is there a long-term pattern?  I try to think of examples Exaggerated feelings of self. Yeah. Oh, that's true because I think I'm I'm pretty important especially to me Yeah, I've never you know, to be honest like I've never heard more or say that his opinions are more important than other people Not Joseph Anderson said right Joseph Anderson said what was the quote that his full out three videos viewed more on the daily than Someone will be listened to in their entire lives Why would you say I think the fact that you you bring other people on to hear their views and engage in a discussion Contradicts that point quite strongly because if you had it, you know an exaggerated feeling of your own self importance You'd want to make it all about you Not bring on guests or debate people. Well, I mean you just say long term. I am a long man. That kind of lines up Just saying Yeah, but that's a bit though. These people don't watch e-fap. They don't they don't watch the things that they're criticizing They just heard it from somebody else in some vague way and then they've shaped it in their mind to be something They want it to be An excessive need for admiration now. I think everyone generally likes to be admired. That's not a negative thing I mean, but I ain't excessive need Yeah, I can excessive need excessive need like how would you uh, how would you be able to notice that? Sorry, just a quick question. Waller Does your content cause people like like this in this reddit post to admire you? Oh, I get all kinds of admiration all the time I don't highlight like a shit ton of just the sludge that gets poured onto my reputation regularly Yeah, because you would think if you were after admiration and you had an excessive need You wouldn't pick an area or body of work that would so controversial that causes such a well Yeah, this is the thing if I wanted to achieve a maximum admiration I would just do what just right's doing and hope nobody points out all the flaws I was actually talking to Alex about this with the response that I got through that parody video I'm like, I really could have done what Joseph Anderson didn't and if I said everything is subjective in terms of like Judging any kind of quality then anyone who criticizes me. I can be like that's your opinion and that's fine Thank you for watching. I appreciate it and I hope we can be friends like the most diplomatic and friendly And I probably get a way better set of admiration at that point than what I get now, which is I'm not saying it's thankless, but like there's a lot of people who really don't like what I do So I think that point is thoroughly contradicted by reality Like I would I guess I'd rather be admired than not I guess in most contexts, but maybe you could argue People would be the same way. Maybe you could argue I'm an I'm an incompetent narcissist Yeah And I mean just on the matter of wanting admiration It can be like this I don't think there's anything wrong But going to try and get people's admirations in a negative way by like pandering to them and not standing up Be yourself and just trying to please everyone. That's Honest or exactly you don't believe Yeah um So moller has a lack of empathy towards other people I guess the proof for that would be that I throw insults would be like damn Nailed it. Oh, but I just counter with you know, you were you were showing um support and stuff when I was going into my surgery I've had first hand experience of Mawla cable being empathetic. So it's actually not a complete robot Damn my veneer is cracking Um, let's see people with npd often spend much time thinking about achieving power and success or on their appearance I feel like I could be doing a hell of a lot more if they were my only goals Like uh, first of all covering a lot more videos a lot more things a lot more faster, you know, like A power and power. What would be power on youtube exactly? Well, I would actually say Doing things that are more in line with growing an audience and getting views and you know, long man bad that that's Like that that style of content you're generally more inclined towards isn't necessarily it works in some niches Absolutely, but more broadly It's a bit harder for you know And so I don't think that would be the best Not to mention the raid shadow legend still hasn't popped up on my channel or e-fap So you'd think it would have by now if I was aiming to At least by the definition of success being money Well, yeah, wait, I say that it popped up on gadelve, obviously Shade or a jet regens of lado the better game you guys should all play it Do you care about your appearance molla?  I just don't I just don't think that it's better than having icons or In my videos, I always think I should just have visual references instead of a vlog, you know I mean, I I don't use my Face and stuff on youtube, but I keep up my appearance because people see me Like I don't want to look like a slob like half the people who Like on youtube so many people get in front of their web So I'm like, I I don't know. I just feel like everyone should take care of their appearance. It's a good It's you know, it's a good. Yeah, like if this was actually being said about shad right now I'd be like, well, I mean he looks good on camera.   You just said it shad. I'm not paying him for his appearances. Yeah, I feel I feel robbed Like I get a like I've been you know violated In some way and offended Oh deeply But I I guess the nail in the coffin will be uh, we'll have to ask moller if this uh, narcissistic behavior began in his early childhood uh When when did you when did you? Realize that you had potentially asperger's I um As soon as I first my I made my first long man, which was you know, that was early adulthood Um Well, so now that we've proved it, uh, he basically ticks all the boxes Basically tick all the boxes Yeah, basically. Yeah Um, especially with how he gets quite upset if people he criticizes don't come on his streams or acknowledge him Oh, yeah, we get really mad at that. We definitely don't just Oh Moeller goes on these massive emotional tirades for people not coming on his stream. It's it's shocking I don't care the only one they can make an argument for is joseph anderson And that's just because I thought we could have a really productive conversation And he had no reason he said he would if not for hit me call him a massive faggot. I was like, are you serious like And so they take that as wow, you're desperate to get people on your podcast, aren't you? It's like I I mean I could take it or leave it, but I just Okay, fine. Yeah, I think he's got plenty of people on his podcast who are okay Um, also, there's a laundry list of people who would refuse to come on here that we'd be okay with like we've always been Okay with quinton reviews coming on sometime. I seriously doubt ever he would come on Yeah, it's not us who say they can't it's they're the ones who won't they win win, right?  Wait, I I thought I thought he had a narcissistic personality disorder So if that's the case then why would he go to great lengths to hide his actual appearance appearance since he got a bigger audience Also, what does that have to matter with anything? Like the only way unless more actually looks like, you know, some disfigured and rotating mess And then he's going to great lengths to hide because it's so narcissistic Yeah, look for mad pretty much, but like even if I did uh, basically look like a puddle of flash It's like I still think people would like enjoy my content that already did, you know They'd be like, well, he's a puddle of flash, but still Looks like So good, huh? Um If I looked like job of the I think people be still on board because of the whole star wars theme, you know They'd be like, oh, that's cool job is making youtube videos And I think a lot of people in by the way There's no way that they would say this about anybody else on youtube that they like going to great lengths to hide His actual appearance since he got bigger. I was like, okay This is why this doesn't matter and I think a lot of non youtubers don't understand how How many advantages come from using either an avatar or no representation of yourself in any way Having none of that and not having yourself Not having your you know sitting in front of a webcam and doing stuff There's a lot of advantages when it comes to like editing and stuff, especially How that come with that That law sentence though.  I need your audience. Give me all right nasty. I don't think so at all I mean personally gonna put it out there. I disagree that you're nasty. That's my hot take for the day Well, that's just because Wait, I'm a narcissist. Therefore. You're not nasty. Okay. All right, I gotta figure this out on my white board Why don't we gotta be a whiteboard? Oh, I meant blackboard A blackboard's actually worse because you have the blackboard which is perfect as is and you're using white chalk To cover over it. If I was autistic, what are they trying to say? You know Pretty able us to me like it like where are you going with this like that mohler? What an autist? That's a pretty ableist language there I'm gonna say that I said something dirty and gross, but I don't know what it is Right. All right. Um, yeah, that's nice. Let's see. Yeah.   No, it wasn't even it was a joke And I had to explain it to him and he joke policed me.  It's like, oh It's not the same category. It's just you've decided. What is it? Is it funny? Yeah, it is the exact same thing. It's absurd to call something Somebody something that they're not like I I translated for him.  Yeah, a large bundle of sticks. It's like, what would that have to do with anything? That's why it's funny, but well never mind Oh, I still love that that word is in the hobbit and lord of the rings the original book Those books must be disowned Wow, it's language Um, the only other thing I think is Worth checking out. I think everyone has seen this already, but it's just so funny Chad, do you want to have the honor of reading this tweet out and and accepting what the tweet is? Okay, sorry You're giving me a bob one Yes, I am So first of all read the tweet that he is quoting and then read his tweet and then react to it That is your that is your job for the day All right, somebody offers you 3,500 to finish everything on this tray in 90 minutes Could would you do it question mark? 3,500. Yeah I'd give it a shot. I'd give it a shot a good try. Hell. Yeah. I'd give it a shot I mean paying me lots of money to eat tasty, but junk food still but still taste it can be tasty I'm not a fan of macca's hugely, but I mean if I for money, like a lot of money, okay Wait, does that include like the wrappers and stuff? No I assume not either. I just I just you know someone someone who walks up to you with a deal like that And you gotta make sure I I probably couldn't but I try give it a shot. Yeah Okay, okay. So this is Bob's response. That's a fairly small Oh my goodness Bob Gosh, I guess point of reference Yes That's a fairly small like that he said for an average-sized person. It's like mom. What do you think average? This isn't even not even a moderate amount not even a lot. This is a fairly small amount for an average-sized person That is four different meals four burgers for drinks Okay Uh, the main reason fast food cooks the fast food cooks so fast and lasts So short is that there isn't much density I wouldn't want to eat a double helping of nuggets in that time frame, but I could easily That humble brag It's like, I don't want it's a peculiar boast I will say Isn't much density to it What is it short? Well, this is what I mean. It's like he's arguing that there's a lot of air in mcdonald's food or something McDonald's food is nasty. Can it's very compact And it's heavy. It's it's heavy in your gut like you just have to eat it to know that Well, this is what I mean, man Like I think that if I ate all the nuggets on that on that tray, I'd start to be like, oh Of that's quite a bit realize you have four double cheeseburgers two large fries and four sodas to finish the tray I don't know how I'm able to keep those drinks down. That's a lot of I feel like that's like a physical space in my stomach Yeah, yeah, the the problem is that there's not enough capacity in my stomach and liver combined Put all of this in there. It's for this. How is this?  So for this, this is what I mean. I'm a big guy and this is insane This is nuts like I I can't fathom it It's like 20 nuggets four burgers One of them's a double big Oh, yeah, it's even worse I Think the one on the right doesn't have a patty because that's just the people who work at mcdonald's unable to put what you ordered into the bag I think they're all supposed to be probably doubles Oh gosh, and you know, I bet people could say guys your fat shame is like No, we're trying to look out for people's health.  Yeah, I'm sorry. This is like This is yeah at this point like you're seriously putting your life in jeopardy You should be ashamed for doing this to yourself I don't really mind I don't really mind like whether or not people do or do not, you know Act in a certain way. I guess the concern here is it's like this is like that's a lot of food I think that's a good point for you. Look if people want to eat themselves into it. Yeah, you can do whatever you want I can't do what they want But they can't tell us that we have to accept it or not acknowledge the inherent health risks that's associated with that Like I don't know movie pod like Well, I was gonna say he's just categorically wrong the average size person will not consider this small No, the average size person isn't capable of consuming this much food. The menu doesn't consider this small They describe this This is the family mealtimes too Yeah So if I go to the mcdonald's nutrition calculator, I can find out how many Wow, they have like they have a legit nutrition calculator here on the mcdonalds.com site I can find out how many uh calories are in this so you all discuss that and I'll get to work Well, and you know, it's funny, right? Like I've gone through different phases of appetite and eating I've been a bit larger and now I'm on and I'm doing pretty well. I'm on a health streak at the moment and they're burning it off which is pretty good and And and so there was like a time of life where I felt like it was a Like you've achieved something to eat a large portion. I was like check this out. I you know Like you able to you know, chug it down and stuff. It's not a healthy attitude at all, which I'll happily acknowledge But um, I like that's the always girl just said I want to do the movie bomb mcdonald's challenge It's like that's what it turns into McDonald's I would have a size person like you declare that in your video and it's like can I this this is considered small Well, it's funny. I think when I was larger and had a larger appetite I might have managed it now I can't my appetite shrunk quite a lot because I might be able to do it if not for the drinks I don't think I can put away that much. I don't think it's drinks Like I just I would not be able to do it at all now Like a single burger a couple nuggets and chips would fill me up and at least I would and it's a time limit to the 90 minutes. You're like damn I would literally throw up before I would you come close to finishing that Yeah, even if I start myself Yeah, well Preparation maybe yeah, but I consider myself. I'm I'm I'm still a bit above average But even a bit above Eric. I couldn't like do it at a star tread taking the movie bomb Donald's challenge Let's do a large fry Oh that Star Wars girl says she can do it. Well, I want to see this now The fries have more calories than the burger cheese Really? Yeah, the oil the double cheeseburger has 440 a large fry is 490 Whoa, I would not have thought that I guess because I guess it's all salt and grease and potatoes screw the fries then I'll just get burgers All right, so what else I did the fries. I gotta do the nuggets next and then I'll be done Sorry, I have to catalog this meal because it's a so long king's piece That starless girl just said she will I'm just saying she's gonna try this. We expect this now. Yeah, we better see it Let's challenge accepted chicken and sandwiches.  Oh, they could they could be They could be 20 They're more than 10 they're more than 10 you can get is 20. They have to be 20 because it's more than 10 in each one Yeah, yeah, I think I count 13 on the surface for the left And that's not including any I can't see so it makes sense.  This doesn't include, you know, that sort of thing in case you needed more food with your food The estimate that I am getting based on the mcdonald's official nutrition calculator Is that this meal is 5,120 calories? What's the standard daily recommend? 3,000 is your daily.  They're all like What? Everyone everyone stops for a moment like what do you mean? That's a small amount of food What is your reference for food amounts? And he reviews movies. Yeah level of awareness and a critical thinking That is um That's rough. I don't know how to say Oh man We've only got one thing left in our intro for the day. Um I think we've all heard about this article, but probably not many people have read it No, uh Let's explore a show. It's called our fascination with canon is killing the way we value stories Saga made a video on this. I'm only halfway through it. Um, well now we get to make a video on this Oh, here we go. I've seen using an ad blocker. I've whitelisted No, because about a dinopire So let's see Our fascination with canon is killing the way Why is his capital It's all right. You only write for living. It's all good. Our fascination with why is with capital Hey, it's all right. You're right for living is killing the way we value stories. All right As the pop culture we love becomes increasingly dominated by vast franchises of interconnected worlds and stories Ask yourself why that is That cancels this entire article Second you think about why So does it become dominated by one singular question from diehard fans Is the thing we're about to consume canon to everything else we've consumed before It's an attitude that's turning our love of stories into some bizarre archival competition So the just there's so many ways this is wrong Um A lot of what makes A lot of what makes things meaningful in sequels is your knowledge of the things that came before Like certain payoffs you'll be lost if you hadn't seen the ones like Like I don't know how why this person's concluded this like why do you think canon exists? So that we have a basis for why things are happening later I don't know what else you it's just like oh you can't enjoy it unless it's canon It's like are you trying to suggest for a moment that the rise of skywalker is a film that would survive if it was isolated? No, that film makes no sense on its own But it does improve a little bit in isolation Just with what it did with luke and stuff. I I guess I agree. They're just uh, I know to like I wonder if that's their real goal of this article is to try and Remove some portion of the criticisms because again, which is just stupid on The funny thing is uh, my mom saw the rise of skywalker and she's as you know, the hyper layman Norby film viewer person right and she asked me she was like, it is okay Obviously she has she has no interest in stars whatsoever Well, the first question she had though was how come how come the guy disappeared when he died But the girl didn't when she died And I was just like It's a good question mom the great question question Really, I am the fruit of your womb. This is what we always talk about when even normie film watchers are picking up on these arrows like you've really made a mistake She didn't remember any of the characters names, which was funny I mean even even this this last sentence is it's an attitude that's turning our love of stories into some bizarre archival archival competition, um, but does this person not understand that we Archive all this stuff and we keep paying attention to it because we love the stories Those two things are interconnected like if we didn't give a shit about the stories to the point where we would want to know what happened before it It's like saying that it's bizarre that a person who loves history would be a historian almost Well to this person I would be like, why did you purchase the rights to a story to make sequels to it? It's like why didn't just make a story? It's like well because we like the universe that was a part of and you're like, uh-huh Why dot dot dot Like do you not you're not following that thought a rolling down the road? The whole concept already that that has been proposed is just antithetical to the idea of story.  Um, I could talk forever about how what a fascinating statement that is Don't you want to read it out ranks Canon is not inherently a bad Well, I meant a bad thing sorry mistake, but Well, it's still it's not a bad. It's not a bad. I'm just like who why what why would you say that who? Where was what? Whenever was it a bad thing you're saying inherently a bad thing. Well, I think but it's like, you know There are some people who think that I think there are some people especially the sequels have kind of brought that out of people Where there are those who one they have to ignore canon In order to have these stories work on fundamental levels But they would say that when it comes to we we covered a guy who was talking about that I forget which one it is because all these people kind of mushed together Um, but they were saying stuff about how the things that came before it they constrain artistic vision and uh stuff like that so I can absolutely believe that there are people out there who might think that canon is a an unnecessary It has a stranglehold on the way that we tell stories because it's it's basically it sets up a rule That has to be followed when you're making a story. They want stories to be free and open and yeah, even though Constraints have often landed well to creative often constraints and restrictions are really good because I give you a challenge Best example is the hyperspace kamikaze I'm sure they feel that the complaints about it being an impossibility because the previous space battles is ridiculous Like you guys need to let go of your canon. Okay, and I'd be like, okay. Why uh Do you know like you can't have it both ways? You're taking things from the older films and using them to your benefit And then sometimes you just blatantly ignore things from the older films So we are we supposed to understand say for example Who's kylo ren and they're like, what didn't you didn't you watch tfa and tlj and I go no, I don't care That doesn't count.  These characters even are like, oh Damn, we we have been hoisted by our own petard All the people in the real world who have looked back at history and said no, no, no Don't worry about what actually happened generally not good people All right, those who want to rewrite history and it just ignored and act like it didn't happen and Like I just wonder if there's any consistent argument you can actually make that canon can be a bad thing How can it be a bad thing? How can it be anything but helpful because it's about well because the people who think that canon's a bad thing Are people who put the you know, the the wibbly wobbly wishy-washy aspect of the themes of Storytelling on a meta level and the freedom it should have and the creative vision of this that and the other thing Canon is a is in direct opposition to these people's creative vision because it constrains them It gives them rules and guidelines from which they have to work from also history That's what I mean. It's like the rules and restrictions are helpful You know because you've arbitrarily chosen to make a story that takes place in a universe after buying the rights to it So you can't just then say well to hell with all the other stuff that happened in this universe We're just going to do our own thing Um, I think there might be an interesting point here If we're trying to figure out when is canon a bad thing and I think the best example is actually the sequel trilogy because So garbage that anything that's based off of that canon into the future.  Yeah, uh where no matter what you do It's going to contradict something Which is what always is that no I mean, I would prefer that a series takes like all the bad things about the prequels Own them and move forward with them. I mean, I would do something you could try Yeah, the prequels don't irreparably damage stalls as far as I'm concerned Well, I think that's kind of the key if you have a solid canon that is that is self-contained consistent not contradicting yourself That is nothing but a good thing, but if it's horrible and it's working against and it sets up like drastically Bad things in the setting and characters and events Well, then I could see a year canon might be working against it But that's not what we're having so far Well, like that's not what star wars the state star wars was in before the sequel trilogy And if they're gonna also reference like say marvel cinematic universe That's not in that state really either. There's nothing that it breaks everything. There's some, you know dodgy things here and there But nothing that breaks the whole universe Compared to This next sentence is really interesting It says um, they say canon is not inherently a bad thing, of course It can provide structure to chaos and it can provide a sense of not of just con of not just continuity but stakes that As that continuity progresses I have why do they say it can provide structure? That's literally what it does. That's what it is is structure It's supposed to be Like drinking water can be healthy for your body It could also be unhealthy if you drink, you know, uh, that's silos worth But even that's not a good example because you could drink too much water, but you can't have too much canon Yeah, you can't have too much canon. I guess you could have You could have conflicting canon. That's that's all we can really yes. Yeah, but that's not about amounts. That's about Specific specifics. Yeah. Yeah But this would be like canon can provide structure to chaos Of the world and like that's what it does. I mean like it does not just a can does do that like that's that's what it does That's how it works. It's kind of what it is Um as to having too much canon I think that might be an example when that might be the case if they if the The previous canon is so ridiculously large and the only way to enjoy the current stories is to understand everything in it Well, the bar for entry to enjoy that new story is way too high before you can get into it Um, I feel like that's a test of the writers though. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if I'd say that's bad That's just yeah, also that would become niche rather than bad as far as I'm concerned Like it's uh, this is for the hardcore fans, you know Someone new is like I have no idea what's going on Then some hardcore fan is like this is actually amazing kind of like endgame Would have been not not to say endgame is a great film. I'm not saying that I'm saying that um There are a lot of mcu fans that are getting all these payoffs that the average viewer who just comes in for the first time is like I don't I don't know how many these people are If someone said too much canon in the mcu, I'd be like no You just haven't seen it Just to throw uh Something in the fire I think endgame is a great movie But for a different point of reference and we'll leave it there You're gonna get pros and cons in the chat chat are gonna be like you're right and you're wrong But uh, it just like it for everybody doesn't know um, we're all having a very fun and engaging debate actually it's our Point of reference judgments on films and things like that and so it's intertwined with all of that, but it's a whole nother so There you go. You got no shad and you are very right Exactly, you see and my answer is it depends on the point of reference. You're judging it against Okay, uh, and I'll leave it there because I agree are judging against certain point of references without uh, acknowledging others it can terrible movie But acknowledging other kind of standards that it achieves it can be brilliant and it depends on which one is more Important and uh or which one you find more important and that can be a subjective thing But I'll leave it there Also, I suppose I just saw one of the comments asking I'm probably should have mentioned it because in terms of efap continuity the last time they heard from you You're going to get some surgery So you want to update the uh, the old chan how you are how everything went Well, I'm happy to and thank you for your concern guys. Actually the support means a lot So the first week of recovery was hellish like really rough Like a point pain so bad that you can't maintain composure. Just a whale in agony, you know But then I got onto the drugs that they gave me and they were dizzy. So That that helped But I was reluctant to take him because one it was a warning that they could be addictive and two they had a whole list of like Symptoms that this court might cause vomiting, diarrhea, nauseousness and stuff And I'm like really that holy crap And the word the last thing I wanted was to throw up with my throat That makes sense Gaping wound right and have stomach acid just Sravage I was like, okay, I'm avoiding this but the pain got so bad that I was like I have no other choice and the first night it made me pretty nauseous. It didn't make me throw up So I risked and and then after that it was like magic stuff and I can really see why they warned people I was like, I can see like the weird thing about this one, right? Um, is that Relaxing get like for me. I need to do work to relax. I need to play a game I need to do something to relax, right? This type of drug it was like an instant relaxation pill You took it and and then it not only reduced the pain But it made you feel mellow and relaxed and I was like, wow I can really see why people could get addicted to this stuff And so I got off it as soon as I could as soon as I could manage the pain without it. I was off it And uh, and then that was after the first week And then the next week it was still pretty hard to talk and and now I'm like almost fully recovered I do have difficulty to talk sometimes, but it's not pain. It's like, um It's like a swelling or like there's more, you know Less room in the throat that causes me to get a gag reflex when I'm talking too much And I can kind of feel it now, but I'm doing mostly okay. That's the only after eating a 5100 calorie mcdonald's A moving pub challenge sort of thing Um, but as to hasn't had any effect. I'm seeing really positive signs So I still have some like, yeah, I've had some rough nights now and then When I've it's like a sleep happening right where I don't breathe well and then I'm wrecked the day after So that has happened since surgery, but there's been much fewer and I've had days where I've been feeling like I've had energy I've been how to do stuff and that's been like You know god send, you know It's been pretty awesome to feel energy again So that's kind of the update. I'm so far so good and so thank you for your concern guys. I appreciate it excellent So that's how I was girls asking what drug I'm not gonna tell him. I don't want people to get hooked on this That's a super addictive drug, but I won't tell it's a 5000 calorie mcdonald's. That's what it is Just so I know specifically to avoid this drug. Yeah at all times I want to know which one exactly it is and what dosages you took isn't it? It's walta whites math, isn't it? I knew it The blue stuff man. All right, so australian crack it is The idea lets characters bear the impact of events on their journeys across not just one narrative But many Allowing them to grow and change to the point that they might even be entirely different kinds of people compared to where we first met them Yeah Consumed eyes like Yes, we're going down There's still plenty of room for variety and interpretation and even a relatively strictly defined canon Just look at star wars and the kinds of stories it can still tell Despite the mandate from on high that anything told must fit into what's been established since disney took over the franchise What do they mean upon high what does that mean but disney hasn't been following that mandate No, they haven't that's the problem. I thought that's why this hospital existed was to argue why they don't have to so This fight the mandate from on high from upon high That anything anything in italics anything told must fit into what's been established Like yeah, I thought that was a given The thing is you can fit into what's established even if you've never been referenced before Like that seems to be something that they they think that we advocate for is like you can I remember there's been people who've been like, oh you want it so there's never a new force power And it's like it depends on what you do and how You're really careful Yeah, and I I still feel that you know keeping the force restricted to the core set would have been worked so much better I think it would be better. Yeah Like let's let's go over the list force healing Could have maybe worked but not like this. It's too late to make it work.  She forced teleported that knife away. That's what she did It makes sense now. Fuck. I kind of feel like that one doesn't get enough attention. That's a huge deal It really it really is I I suppose You could get away with the fact that it's between two incredibly forced sensitive people Generated by one of the most powerful force users in history Is that is that the like the only way you could try and restrict it because if Average genites could learn to train to do this Gosh, I mean they could never have the plot of a new hope again where they have these plans that they need to get to The rebel people is like We'll just Yeah, teleport a grenade into the core of the death star Um, but we already have this with force healing as they have it Like if a baby can do it like this if ray can do it like this in in the context that it's used Then like man Obi-Wan that that should be like the first thing you learn is a jedi It's amazing. Yeah And it's clearly a defensive power, right? It's not an offensive power at all Yeah, you can't heal someone to death Exactly and it doesn't say that the dark side would able to find it It is like what it seems like a very good, you know White side power and all that he can spending his life to learn when ray just pulls it out of it Yeah, she just does it like on a whim. She's just like, oh, I'm good. Do you remember? Uh, not po fin c3b. You're all totally fine with it. It's bb8. She has to explain it to bb8's the one who's like Wait, what did you just do? Bb8 the little robot thing is like this does not compute I like I would love it if all bb8's beeps and boops for him saying you guys are retards That shouldn't be how it why you doing stop it It's like I'm following you guys around is because you're invincible But man I think obi one should have been able to heal heal kwagon, you know stuff like that like stuff which would have and if kwagon was alive that could have Really changed the story of how anakin was trained at all Yeah, kwagon might have been able to find out about palpatine early on because he was so switched on and capable and gosh And yeah, it would have been like anakin turning to the dark side like I did to this little slave child on this planet anyway Horses fucked yo And I don't even necessarily have a problem with the long distance for skype calls It's just the way that it was done was Just like oh, we need them to talk they can talk now Well, that's why I kind of get out with like, you know, no new force powers. That's terrible It's like you do realize we've got a lot to work with you can make a lot of incredibly new things out of things We already know For example, it's Darth Vader chokes a person and then luke telekinetically grabs a lightsaber You're like are those two things is that a new thing? It's like, well, no technically that's just an extrapolation of the first thing exactly Exactly and force choke is just force push on your windpipe and um Maybe super speed is that you're super pulling yourself towards something We'll super pushing yourself away from someone. You're like, whoa Yeah, what you can do with just push and pull and just those two if those were all it was It's just push and pull like Man push and pull works really well because it's really easy to grasp You know you push pushing and pulling. It's just movement. It's basically telekinesis But it's force grasp easy to grasp Yeah, like it's it's easy to understand why choking somebody would work if you were able to move objects If you could move objects, you could probably crush objects that makes sense But like force healing is a whole different thing. Yeah I just want to say that the book Matilda has more explanation as to her powers than the course does Let's see. I have good memories of Matilda for some reason.  I was like, is this real fit? Like, how could you get away with this? This is a school with this torture chamber I was like bring it back Bring back the chokie some kids need the torture closet Um, let's see. Where are we? Uh, but those stories benefit from the added weight of being definitive Interpretations and events that flesh out an entire galaxy's worth of stories. All right. Thanks for thanks for Reading the article of this everybody Guess that's that right? Um Yeah, those stories do benefit from that because it keeps consistency which makes the world more believable and realistic and Hold it suspends our suspension of this belief Um, but we're canon or rather our hunger for it goes terribly wrong is when Whether something matters or not becomes the base standard for how we consider a piece of media Well, whether something matters or not becomes the base standard I guess they're saying that it's bad when our concern for canon is what we put above everything else Or it's it's the base standard for whether or not we think something is good or not I would just argue. Nobody doesn't do that and then they'd be like, what do you mean? I'd be like any payoff that you experience is based on knowledge you had prior to that moment regardless But they're not even defining whether something in canon matters or not They're saying broadly whether something anything matters or not becomes the base standard of how we consider a piece of media Isn't that how you consider media? Universally whether something matters or not or is valid or not in the media itself regardless like what what are they trying to say? Are they saying are they saying that the sequel trilogy? For example, we all go non canon because it breaks canon. We're not even going to Uh consider it a piece of media now. Is that what they're saying is is a bad thing I don't know. It's a very confusing like if you break canon, you're automatically out of being considered Which is bad and I would caution them to be like no no It's because we considered them that they became something we considered breaking canon not even non canon Yeah, and I mean it's clear what they're trying to say that they're trying to say Whether we are regarding something in canon matters or not becomes the main thing that we're judging the movie by Are the you know the base standard and we're not using it as the base standard We're using it as a standard to judge its quality and it's an important standard um But the movies generally still can be crap regardless of how well it needs to canon as well. It's not the only thing Um, let's see. It's an attitude that has become predominant not just within fandom circles itself But in the media commentary that has developed around these fandoms and the blockbuster franchises that dominate our popular culture So you don't even have to be a fan to recognize these things or at least talk about them They do seem to have a prevalent sort of like like they They exist in a way that anyone could notice them like you don't have to necessarily Be an expert in lore to recognize a contradiction Yeah, it's kind of base level stuff in a lot of ways Um, I think it's why a lot of people can talk about it despite not being fans. Oh, no, they've used the actually word Oh, dear Actually one of the most overused words ever this you may as well just remove it Most of the time you don't need it. Yeah I use it a lot actually It's it's good for accentuation It's just funny because it usually implies upon the speaker that they're gatekeeping for example actually interpret it interpreting It's like oh actually interpreting So oh, so you're not real. I get you. You're not a real interpreter.  It's like, okay fine Critics and fans alike are now less interested in actually interpreting a piece of media thematically Are to engage with why they liked or disliked it But instead to pick it apart and break it down to the base components of what are essentially its pure unflinching facts But hang on isn't breaking it down Engaging with why they liked or disliked it Well, this is the funny part to me because they're like, oh, you're not looking at the theme And I'm like, what if the theme like in tlj is destroyed by the unflinching facts As in this piece of media is giving me a lesson or a message of some kind But it's not following its own lesson or message. It's actually fighting against it It tells me that if I behave correctly and get punished for it I should then behave incorrectly that is the journey of po in that movie and it's like what an awful message It's like, but that's not the message tlj. The message is that you learned from failure. It's like, but that didn't happen What do you mean? But but you're not actually interpreting Oh, okay Thematically because you're not having the correct conclusion Mola. So it's invalid got me It's really interesting. I mean Everything I mean, I I think that breaking things down to the base components and then building up from there is What's fun about looking at media? I think that's what's interesting. I think that can give me better insight into even To myself as to why I do or don't like things Well, that's the whole point that literally is a way that a lot of people Determine why they like or dislike something, but they're literally saying in this article that that's not doing that. It's like, what? I mean, I would like I would like to know the reason why I like things a lot of times Um, they will help me get more of those things if I know what I'm actually what I like about something Uh, let's see. Um, that's that google star wars Or the marvel movies and you will likely see as many articles and videos with headlines like x confirms y is canon x questions answered by New media or x things we learned about character z in this new book slash movie slash tv show All right You're going star wars now I would just be like, do you know do you know why this stuff?  I think you're reading them wrong. They all say x confirms y is canon, but must must um Like one of the I remember one of these being the whole like who is uh, the Technical grandfather of anakin right or father and they were like, oh Thingy confirms that it was you know play guess all palpatine Knowing that information will decide a lot about that last kiss in tros. You're like, ooh so This is interesting. If I google star wars The second thing that pops up for me Is from not only this website i09 gizmodo But from the exact same author james whitbrook It is an article called Uh, he wrote today at 6 30 meet the almost excruciatingly wholesome jedi of star wars high republic Huh interesting Hmm I get a private browser or something with no search history. No, this is just a good. This is chrome tab And then the other ones are lightsabers of star wars the rise of skywalker Uh looking back at star wars rise of skywalker strange lucrative Uh disappointing box office something the forbes thing popped up um Those are the three top stories.  That's the top thing Uh for there Oh, you're in a lot of stories. Okay star wars is ray skywalker plan shows just how much went wrong from screen rant. That's interesting X confirms y Andrew jack star wars actor dies from covet 19 Um, yeah, so that's a Thing All right Anyway, yeah can is important Um So moving on uh and before someone accuses me of throwing stones in glass houses Yes, io 9 totally does this too. Like I said discussing canon can be fun. It can add a lot to a series It is the series though Like a series is its canon. That's what it is defined by What I mean, I this does none of this makes any sense to me. I'm like, what are you? The series is the events that took place in that universe That's what it is. It can't be anything else They all right though, uh tlj does you know the sequels really does improve without canon Yeah um But this craving for it above all else is a toxic attitude. It's toxic toxic attitude Yeah Some sort of rude But this craving for it above all else is a toxic attitude Not just to the way we talk about pieces of media from a critical perspective But in fan circles as well Well, I would say that the best circle about something is to be critical about canon because you're working with more objective criteria You have to you rely less on I feel or I think and here's what the data is Find interesting that I don't even qualify You know How it causes a toxic attitude or why it's toxic when people are just saying let's let's follow what canon sets up I mean, obviously they're saying because people attack, you know movies and stuff that that must be toxic when And I the criticism is valid. So I wouldn't call it toxic like You know in the actual use of the term where people like individuals can go about this in a toxic manner, but There's nothing toxic about it at all Let's see Critics and fans alike are now less interested in what is Oh, I'm sorry. Uh, sorry. I'm drinking critics and fans alike are now less interested in actually interpreting a piece of media Thematically are to engage with why they liked or disliked it But instead to pick it apart and break it down to the base components of what are essentially It's pure unflinching. I've read this before you've read that part. I was like something's familiar with that. I'm I'm sorry I'm having difficulty concentrating Uh, that's that's the the hunger for facts above all else Leads to things like quote-unquote filler episode Becoming a derogatory term for stories that don't advance the larger ongoing plot of a narrative Or don't include some shocking new revelation that someone can add to a list Okay, this is not a result of fucking the canon.  That's why you have a filler episode Or I don't even know this is a complete different conversation like what it means Yeah filler episodes are part of the canon. Those are still events that happen They usually refer to filler because they could be skipped by the general audience and nobody would miss out on any discussion about the show It seems like they're trying to say that filler episodes are caused by trying to adhere to canon and Is that what they're saying? Let's let's let's go to what is a what is a filler episode? Right, what defines a filler or what can we at least agree would be probably a filler episode Episode that doesn't advance the overall plot. It's probably the general way. I look at it Yeah, but you can but a filler episode can still do things like develop individual characters Yes, tell stories about the world they can world build really well Depending on your definition if someone said no filler episodes would have none of that. I'd be like, okay It's still possible that they could be pretty entertaining though Yeah, absolutely. They can be absolutely If I reference the ball episode from community, that would be something that's a great episode Nobody no characters get like a journey completed in that one as far as I remember They're literally saying the hunger for facts above all else leads to things like filler episodes What Yeah I don't see the causal link here. That's what I mean In fact The hunger for facts above all else leads so they're saying the creators want to avoid Uh conflicting facts so much that they will create filler episodes Uh, well that's on them. I don't know what to say about that. It's not even a If an episode if an episode is made to connect two important plot points It's not a filler episode then you can't take it out as a singular You know, that's what a filler episode is. It's kind of one that is, you know, not necessarily the overarching plot It's just there to fill in that, you know Sorry, sorry. I just I've read it a couple times now So I think what they're saying is the we don't like filler episodes because we like plot getting progressed because we love them Facts that we can add to lists. No, they say why they say why I don't like it It's because it's so that's somewhat shocking new revolution revelation that someone can add to a list if it doesn't add that they they this person thinks That a filler episode means that The four of us essentially we can't have new things to add to our archival list of canon Yeah, which is not true. Therefore we act as if it doesn't have any value to to the universe. Therefore We don't like them This is a very very malformed section of this paragraph that we're trying to sort of Scythe for the author Filler episodes are not necessarily bad, but they can be I don't mind a filler sure because whenever we describe something as bad because filler We're probably referring better to bad because bad filler not bad because filler Yeah, well, there are interesting episodes that I love that are filler Yeah, exactly an interesting point of reference like you can have an episode that is mostly And it's still advanced to the plot only Briefly and so it's not one or the other where one is a filler episode or one advanced to the plot It can be a spectrum on that one And the group first example of this is actually Mandalorian where there's a decent amount of filler episodes And they advance plot very like Tightly in small measures, but they can actually be completely disregarded Like when I watched the last two episodes of Mandalorian last night fair If my kids went up to that But they were able to pick up Because there were only four plot episodes, you know, really one three seven eight And you can have if you have a filler episode Where a character gets flushed out and we develop a lot more Empathy for the character and relate to the character a whole lot more That might not necessarily have anything to do with the plot But it increases how much we care about the character when they are doing important plot things later Yeah, I agree. Exactly. Yep So I don't know how odd to tie in filler episodes. Yeah, I feel like I don't even know why this came up Um, it does seem like it has been pulled out of left field here The only thing I can imagine is just that they're like you guys are so focused on details That you like can't even enjoy filler episodes anymore. I'd be like, uh That's that's just a really weird statement. I don't really know what to do with it I Could enjoy filler your badman for saying otherwise Yeah, I can enjoy filler um It predicates the gatekeeping act of being a fan that is built on how much you know about a thing Whether over whether you actually enjoy that thing or not Good, um, I would prefer That of the other way around I mean Mola had a good point before if someone claims to have enjoyed star wars and that they're a fan And they don't know what a lightsaber is I would have to question That's like, okay, so what do you like because you don't even know what it is like if we get really like almost Definitive about this we're like so passion dictates that you would have some memory of the basic elements of this media and Lightsabers are one of the poorest iconic elements of stars. How did you miss those and how do you not remember them?  Damn it Yeah, someone could be extremely enthusiastic about star wars But they can want and add a bunch of stuff that is completely contradictory to previous information No, so and that's bad.  Yeah, it's gonna be 10 year old And this is just like an ongoing to pay on what it even means to be a fan because like You know, you don't say to someone like I have a mild interest in such things You go, yeah, no, I'm a fan. I'm a fan.  You're like, no It's the difference, I guess between people who love An IP and people who love the idea of the IP I think so and I also think it has to do in part with how much people understand about just, you know In general the idea of um a story that exists beyond Simply each individual component, you know There's a story to star wars that is beyond each individual film And it's something that you need to align with because that's like That's the thing that binds them all together as part of the IP So if you start changing things around and creating it without any regard for that Yeah, you're gonna create something that's a mess Yeah, I also think that there are levels and different types of fans And like you can have a casual fan I think people will be happy to acknowledge that exists Then you have the concept of a true fan And I would be hard-pressed to acknowledge someone as a true fan of star wars who doesn't know what it's like say groups And yeah, they wouldn't even be a personal thing like I'm not even aggressive about it I should be like no, it just seems categorical that you aren't what's required. I'm sorry. Yeah, exactly And it's not a gatekeeping thing. He's like, we're not saying you can't enjoy what you like This is why I literally can't understand how it's possible This is why I want to ask questions because if if they were like, yeah, sorry, I forgot I got bad memory with this sort of stuff, but then they go on to say like they love Luke's arc they love The incredible effects they I'd be like, okay. Yeah, okay. That is a weird thing to forget, but fine. I guess I just forgot it What's it called a babe a babe blade? Is that what it's called? No, man, you gotta say a laser sword That's what you gotta say to piss off all of the fans I actually think, you know that the Star Wars sequels have revealed a new type of fan as well Like the type of fan that really loves canon, dare I say and stuff because it's these types of fans that hate these crap Who respects it as opposed to It's it's beyond just merely consuming it. I would say yeah Yeah, and honestly, I I think you can almost use it as a kind of Point of reference to figure out what type of fan someone is based on if they like the That's a bit of a litmus test. It's like You know, how much do you care about canon?  All right, cool What do you think of the sequels? Oh, they're great. Okay You say you love Star Wars you're like cool. Cool. Cool. I gotta go. I gotta head out. Uh, but cool. Cool. Cool Cool. Cool. Cool. Yeah Let's see. Um It's an attitude that in turn feeds the equally unruly and constantly growing spoiler culture Because a fandom that values pure details above all else Puts weight in the knowledge of those details What is that link to what are they? What are they starting about spoiler culture? Because It's been around since ever Yeah, I think their idea is that um, it's They're talking about spoiler not as in spoiling a movie But spoiler is in ruining it for other people because they get hung up on little details. Is that what they're trying to say?  Do you remember was the hyperspace kamikaze? He said that's a detail Is a little detail How could you possibly classify that that way that's ridiculous little detail one of the big details Uh, let's see. Yeah people people want to experience the story unfold In a certain way. They don't want to be unceremoniously told after the fact what to expect Is the tension and suspense and a desire to adhere to canon does not inherently conflate an equate to The cancer culture with meaning the desire that you don't want to know what happens in a movie before you watch it The whole idea of like the canon is that it enables you to be able to It's the reason why it's important that things don't know I mean the reason why it's important that things make sense is because if things don't make sense It becomes impossible to gauge what cannot cannot happen What is possible? What could be expected and what things could be unexpected but still makes sense. There are there is nothing anymore Nothing makes a great example of this is uh cap picking up milnia. We've got enough to believe it's actually possible So seeing it is still a surprise, but it makes sense Well, that is Into the air and started flying And just going The interesting thing is if you watch that film in isolation, you might be like, huh? I was like, yeah, exactly Yeah, you could only appreciate that because of the canon the movies You can build up to things for a longer time and have these really cool reviews. I mean major advocate of that Well, this is why I get really annoyed when people act like canon is a restricting Component if anything, it's it's really useful Well, I mean it can be both TFA is a perfect example It's like I don't care that Kylo kills Han that much because I'm kind of confused as to their relationship in the first place And I don't even know who Kylo is if we had three movies prior to that that built up their entire journey that moment might have been incredible Well, and honestly even in the context of the movie, I know this But Han he just gave up on his family and Well Look between the four of us if we were to write a three a set of three movies between the ot and the st Could we manage to fix at least partially Han in tfa? But without changing it. Is it possible? It's like, oh, that'd be tough And I wouldn't want to because the end result is so No, I know I'm arguing that canon could actually save that movie to a degree Which is the opposite of what those articles are doing It's basically retroactively trying to fix it by explaining everything that they got wrong in the first place Maybe if like kylo had done something unspeakable to Han to make him really really cut ties and stuff Yeah, I mean, I think I think we would just go with that one that was often talked about and suggested that Leia gets to be a bit of a like Bit hawkish and she goes nuts trying to erase the empire And we make sure that we let it be known It's coming from like an like a not a set of she's never got closure about alderaan And she's constantly held that against the empire no matter who works for them or why She hates them and like she could she could go too far, you know Um, that could be the angle for why her and han have issues We could easily work with that. There's something there Yeah, there's validity to that now. Is it a bit in line with her? You know very Dominative kind of character. Um, it works it works. That's the thing. It could work or maybe that's better It could work in line with pretty much anybody who just watched her planet get blowed up Yeah, there's a lot you're willing to do if you watched your entire World and culture get destroyed in a blast in an instance.  When there's an answer from the word of god to that question you might have had What is the point in the movie at this point? Yeah, what's the point in a story if you're gonna be upset when there's stuff that definitively happens Hang on like because who cares what you think happened when there's an answer from the word of god Like he's basically saying people who believe the incorrect things about a movie Are justified in believing that that you know like Darth Vader was physically in the last Jedi as a character like Replace the word of god in that sentence with what actually happened because that's what they're actually referring to Yeah, that's what it means. Um, because who cares what you think happened when there's an answer from what actually happened Who does care what It's not from like an ethereal source It's from the actual film. Yeah, they're just using You couldn't yeah like What are some of the statements that defenders of last jedi and riser skywalker have said that were objectively false From what actually happened in there because I know you've mentioned some in the Oh, wait, are you are you asking what in my video did I say happened that did not happen? No, no, no what what defenders people have actually said happened in those movies that Did not I know there was one from thought theater recently right when we covered him. Yeah, he said something that we were like That's actually not what happened Um, it's weird because there's so many examples, but The way that they're delivered to us.  Where did you get that from? Well, see perfect example where what they're trying to say is invalid is perfectly valid because who cares what they think that's not what happens So it's so hilarious though because the film wrong if they were right that would be leo killed kylo or ben You know, it's just like whoa, that's there's too many implications. We can't go that way Well, if somebody came up to the author james whitbrook, right? Um, and said I don't think that ray was a character in the force awakens The what who is he to tell him that they're wrong? I just yeah, this is why this standard doesn't work guys because we all know that this is not and if he said Yes, she is I'd be like you're appealing to canon and you're crushing my interpretation by appealing Yeah, if you're like, oh, you're just being nipped. I see what you're doing. It's like You don't These are these are serious cracks at your point of view you need to address them. Yeah, uh And more sinister tactic, you know, that's what's happening here. It's debate tactic. Yeah Sorry, just a lot rags at more sinisterly Sinisterly isn't I was actually about to kind of pause.  Yep Um and more sinisterly beyond the way it shapes our discourse It's a craving that further enmeshes our love of a world not to the world itself But to the masters behind that world Oh, uh So that's fucking wrong credit to hang on we give credit to the people who made the canon if they made good canon And that's I'm happy to give disney credit for everything that they've done It I'm sorry, why is this a bad thing that we we give Bitter enmenches our love of a world not to the world itself, but to the masters But I would love to compliment the people who create the worlds that I love Yeah It's really difficult Like when I talk about the world of star wars, I don't think about like in the back of my mind I'm not constantly going george lucas our master our senior Worship him like no it's like sure. I'll give him credit But I don't think about george lucas when I think about star wars. I think about the universe of star wars But you can't admire the work of the creator like um Tolkien made a phenomenal world that it influenced fantasy Forever like I guess since that Influential like so you can admire token for No, stop. No You're obsessed with canon though is that uh token agrees with um The philosophy like the philosophy that I have and when it comes to the whole idea of consistency and like in world building Like he doesn't agree with these people That's that's probably why they don't cite him and they'll cite fucking what call box instead of their story analysis You'd be like what why? You know that tolkin had the framework that worked out really well for him meanwhile This framework tends to yield really negative results. I know this is like antithetical to basically near I I couldn't think of any Successful and competent writer who could agree with this crap like this is this is not like how you meant to Create stories. I'm sorry. This is basically somebody saying sure write stories, but information doesn't matter Oh, no, he's doing the reverse like a great guy to destroy stories.  That's like everything is good. I'll try to get like I'm trying to get all tisney and stuff, but isn't it like the whole process It's like the heart suggests something of the mind like chisels it out into something Yeah, exactly the the whole idea is you have an idea and then from there you're like, how do I make it work? If it was as easy as doing what your mind told you to do everybody would be able to do it Well, yeah, ideas are cheap Yeah, ideas are exactly ideas are cheap figuring out a way to make it work and have cause and effect Constantly in play and everything makes sense is the hard part.  So Jim Butcher is the author of the Dresden files and before he was even like a successful prominent author He was arguing with someone saying ideas are cheap. It's about execution and this other person was like adamant saying No, you need the best idea. Like that's what makes a story And so Jim Butcher was like, all right, give me the worst two ideas You can think of and it is like the hundred years war and pokemon And then Jim Butcher went on and wrote like a best-selling series based on that idea What is it called again? Is it a codec salara? Oh, I know that there is a um, there is I think we're thinking of the same author who who basically took a bet Yeah, that's Jim Butcher based on a really yeah on a really bad idea And and that's that's fundamentally is the thing is is um, I don't I don't know about anybody else But ideas are the easy part. Oh, that's really cool. That's the idea We've got this before but like what is a bad idea to go? I don't know a guy locked in a room and I'm like, no, no We can work with this this thing as we can do Like it's about execution. You can make random concepts There's a whole movie with a guy in a phone booth. I can't even remember if that was good or not now And berry does it fill with a guy in a coffin of the entire thing Yeah, like you could make weird and even seemingly bad ideas work brilliantly if you can execute it if you have talents Yeah, I'm not sure that there's such a thing as a bad idea even though I'm sure that I have said on times This was terrible idea. You'd never should have tried this Well, that's what people say about the sequel trilogy.  Um, you would have to do so much work. Yeah, I was gonna say it's really freaking hard It's it's going to be really hard and it's going to take you a really long time So we you know, you might even think about it You might be able to go the route that he was you know being controlled by something else temporarily Or he was under some kind of mystical influence star wars has a bit of that right you can work with it The idea that isn't going to work is luke wants to kill his kid because he had a bad dream That's not going to work in any world any of the instance I feel like that would be a categorization That's a categorization thing as well because it'd be like what's the where do we get into the point of idea versus like that Is sounds more like execution doesn't actually seem idea is a high concept I think yeah, like luke falling back on a lot of his values idea But luke killing one of his own cousins as well. They all deaf you whatever while they sleep It's like that's an actual specific detail you've locked me into now Yeah, yeah, I I would say so and I guess that's that's probably like the big issue that i'm having with this whole article Is it's got a very strange approach to the to the creative process the idea that cherish your ideas all ideas All all of your thoughts are fantastic If you put restrictions on yourself based on external factors, that's arbitrary and stupid Do everything that you that comes to mind immediately and don't question it because to be creative is to never place restrictions on yourself This is just an absurd viewpoint. It's also useless for an artist because they do anything and they're like Why isn't this working? You're like, I'm doing anything that should work, right? Yeah, and I think and I think um, I think that the fact that people intuitively recognize that something isn't working It's kind of indicative of the fact that there is some sort of standard in our own head That we're aware of which should probably just be cause and effect, you know, we're aware of these things Even if we don't think about them consciously all the time Sorry, that was a total tangent. I'm sorry. I mean this article just cited the word of god. So, you know, we can probably go in different directions at this point um, so let's see um To twist a lit crit turn of phrase there cannot be the death of the author if the authors got their own fandom wiki Yeah, so that's the death of the author versus the death of the canon. They're two different things Yeah, it's not even analogous. Yeah, like that's just not at all the same thing It's not so when when an author says luke skywalker, uh, put his weapon down instead of killing his father You go, no, he didn't he killed him because death of the author. It's like no That's not the author that said that that's the content like you're making this up Um, so to wrap this up It's fine if you want something to matter to a world and characters you care about But it shouldn't be the be all and end all to your investment in them either How can I be invested in something that doesn't make sense or that's ever changing and what I mean by ever changing Is it literally doesn't look like it did seconds ago all the time? I'm just like, I don't even What is this it's just a blob that constantly changes and moves. It's like, okay I guess I could watch that could be funny That would be a good premise for a character one that just every single day But you know what's funny about that is the only way that I would want to have a character like that is if I had Other characters they could bounce off of I need a I need a baseline for that thing to be able to react to or be involved in Just to have that on its own everyone's just gonna be like, what is this? Like, okay, they're that character today. That's weird. Why don't you just make an anthology of different characters at this point?   What I want to be is probably the most, you know, what what star wars ought to be seems to be the problem We get that whole conversation where they'd be like ryan johnson's an actual fan You guys are what destroyed star wars by trying to stick to what it was I thought that we weren't meant to gatekeep here. I thought we weren't supposed to be doing that They'd probably go with counter gatekeeping like your gatekeeping Oh, yeah, yeah, well, I like the idea. It's like You know Well, this was um, almost uh, oh, uh Valuing the sterile facts of those stories more than the things about them that makes us think or feel You know, like the canon is sterile facts.  Don't you hate it that we only talk in sterile facts Well, it's also the fact that understanding the sterile facts can actually enhance your emotional reaction Absolutely Tremendously Makes sense to you but makes sense We've already mentioned the perfect example when cap picks up the hammer without knowing the facts of what happened before That scene is gonna have a vastly different emotional you with you're like with someone who hasn't seen it before They're like, why does it matter? Can anyone pick it up? You're like, no, actually This is really big That's a great example, right cap picks up a hammer. That's a sterile fact But it means a lot when you hear that you're like, wait, what? like That's those pesky sterile meaningless lame facts. Gug hate them What is the story if not a sequence of events and things not a sequence of sterile facts Yeah But how do you how do you interpret all of those things? Yeah, we we yeah There there was clearly something that happened on screen with dialogue that accompanies it But what is your interpretation of that thing? No matter how bonkers In contrary to the information Yeah, like to me, this is not this is not valuable discussion when it's just like, oh, but how you know Like what is your interpretation of the facts? It's like guys Can we just talk about what actually happened and why it's good or bad? So does that do it for our intro? Wow, what an intro two hours long. Yeah Pretty good might be it might be a good point for me to just quickly ducks to the toilet before we get into the Mando So Maybe we had to transition over it's like, oh, yeah By the way, now time for an episode by episode breakdown of a tv show After discussing whether or not a set of food is suitable for the average person Now that I feel And know that I can interpret things in whatever way I want and that's what's most important Maybe the show will be good now Damn Yeah, I mean who knows if uh if the things that you hated in it even happened. That's just your interpretation of the event Do you guys love that this is the world that we live in where nothing matters Nothing makes sense. It's it could be whatever you want And so we can't even understand like the most basic things about what's happening in the story I prefer it that way Makes discussion so much easier because I just say I like it clarity and um and You know causality, why does reality need reality? Reality is just sterile To not be in reality god Uh I want someone to make that Make the series make the movie make the show where literally nothing makes sense. It's just random stuff is happening all the time There's no continuity. There's no consistency. Things just happen randomly And then not only will it be extremely unlikely you'll find anybody who has a passionate love for it But they will never be able to explain why because that requires things to make sense I mean when we talk about that it's like getting to the fundamental aspects of like reality at that point Whether or not something makes sense, you know, this is how we make sense of the world If none of that makes sense. What are we meant to do? Let's see. Is this a sigh? That's like, yep. All right.  It's deep down. Nobody actually believes this stuff People have some sort of internal thing in that that helps them figure out what's good and bad, you know Like they're just willing to ignore it when it's stuff. They've come to quite like Yeah, something that they've decided at this point that they want to yeah, because again, you know, nobody really debates whether or not the room or Burdemic is is bad. These are things that we just accept to be true Uh, or not the way Examples. Yeah, it's it's just patently obvious that that's true Yeah, and some things aren't obvious Yeah, when things get less obvious then that's when it becomes uh more contentious But again, you know, are we really going to go up to somebody and say so? Yeah, do you think that uh, let's go good old citizen kane. Do you think that citizen kane is um is arguably as good As uh twilight they're not gonna nobody's gonna say yes to that Maybe Stephanie Maya would say yes I mean it that would be that would be blindly arrogant, but We don't know anyone like that Nobody who says like their own work is so good that if they were only submitted or had the buddy They could make a masterpiece. Yes. No one comes to mind at all No, no particular youtuber um But yeah, there's gonna be Somewhat out there you just be like in terms of craft citizen kane the room which is superior and so we'll go Well, if you look at them as comedies, it's the room And I just want to clarify I just be like you mean if we look at it as though it was intended to be good But uh, we laugh at how it failed to do so. It's like that's what you mean, right? Someone in chat said is twilight the dark souls of citizen kane. Yes I love how like That's just the go-to citizen kane is the movie that people's side is being good even though let's get rid of most of us haven't watched it I haven't seen it It's good for jokes though to say something is the citizen kane of other people Well, I think it's because somebody said that the last of us is the citizen kane of video games You know like oh the citizen kane must not be very good then Well, I mean I look I like the last of us, but it's it is one of the most overrated games of all time Yeah, it's fine. Um, I like it, but um, yeah We got a we got a cool adjet 2013 really was the because that was a year bioshock infinite came out too. It's like this is you know This is what art a video game is art Bioshock infinite. Yeah, and now we look back on it I get how that happened because you remember the intro, right? It's like everybody's just like this was mind blowing It was epic it was the all the things and it's just like it but the game sucks It's it's all the vague like art things it does look totally photorealistic Uh, the architecture is pretty cool. It's like, yeah, the art's really good and all that but and the music's good and all that but um Nothing works And the story's really stupid unfortunately Yeah Don't even you don't even go there that the amount of power elizabeth has and they just don't use it really at all throughout the whole campaign Hey, just make me some cover They they're like we need to pop over to a different universe where certain things happened to collect an item We need for hours. I'm like, I'm sorry. What was just jumped to a different universe If you die in one universe you go insane in the other it's like but if there are infinite universes Then surely everybody is dead in some universe an infinite amount of times Yeah They are playing extremely fast and loose with what infinite means I don't know any other property that may or may not have done that as of recently It's not like it would have it in the name as well Yeah, I'm just gonna be If you are using the word infinite for your idea Really double check and make sure that it's actually what I mean Many crises on several earths. That's what they should have called it It wouldn't have sounded as cool if it was called crisis on a bunch of earths Yeah, the fact that it's infinite earths mean this story don't make sense if it's crisis on a 100 earths You're like, okay Yeah, this makes sense, you know All of the infinite universes have been destroyed.  He's like, you'll know and then he's like I know and he teleports a random set of people all the paragons into the space between time and space Yeah, the space between time and space where there is both time and space But not everyone else by the way Not everyone else.  Earlier we had that fight in like the first episode or something. We're we're there on that non-descript industrial constructions Yeah, yeah, and he teleports everybody to safety He can we know that you can do that guy that they needed you can't well. No, he can teleport rags We can't teleport to the space between time and space Oh, except when he decides he can no no the other guy can not that guy. Oh, yeah, that's right What are we talking about? We're talking about crisis on it for the nerves. One of the greatest pieces of media ever created Not the comics. The uh, the the cw crossover I like the when that first episode came out. I think I told you like I had seen like twitter I know brown table, but several others were complimenting how great uh, green arrows send off was Do you remember all of us were just confused We were like confused and laughing and like And the best part was uh After the fact it came out that he was acting against a tennis ball because the other actors had to be on set for their other show So It's a perfect commentary on stakes because like it wasn't even canon that ruined it for us It was just normal just cause and effect. We were like, okay, so Earth is about to be destroyed They're trying to teleport out a bunch of civilians even though the rest the universe is at risk of being destroyed anyway So I don't even know how that I don't I don't even want to start with that. Let's just go with it They were trying to evacuate people by delaying the ghosts You're like, how are they delaying the ghosts? There's like billions. It's like, okay, fine. Whatever. They're doing that Punching with our and shooting them with our alien man is teleporting people out so that they don't die And for some reason he takes ages to teleport green hour to the point where green hour fires an electric Arrow at him to stop him from teleporting him out Yeah, he runs out of arrows and instead of being like shit teleport me out now because I can't do anything He shouts and runs at the ghosts Like what are you doing?  You're like, he's dying. Oh, okay Ghost scratches and nobody makes any effort to help him No, he's in a he looks like he's in some kind of medical facility He's in one of the like gurneys or whatever, but they're just letting him die Yeah, he teleported him to a place where his blood appears on the bed before he does And just like the final battle. It's just this it's just some small industrial yard again in Vancouver It's like a gravel pile And then the the floor the gravel pile in some of the shots was a grain screen. It was CGI It's like that it's shoot it there and then you have ps2 level graphics Probably even worse than that. I'm pretty sure that like Ratchet and Clank had better animation Well, that's what really separates the the artists from the idiots Like I don't mean to be too mean but what I mean is like when you know, you have limited resources The alien Alien is the the example It's like alien looks incredible and they had like such limitations in terms of what they actually had to begin Because I remember it wasn't something about like they originally intended the alien to be more visible Throughout the whole film, but they were just like it just looks better the less we show it It's it just makes the film scarier more Atmospheric as well as making the enemy just so confusing as to what exactly it is and what it wants It's like, oh, wow In general a lot of people it's the reason why a lot of indie games have pixel art It's like, yeah pixel art. We can make that faster. We don't really have the money to spend on our on big graphics 3d graphics So we'll just do pixel art because it'll still look really cool. Then this was like check out our CGI yo I mean, I think it's a big problem with the art and it's the reason why dead of a worthwhile is because it's like Yeah, this is a ground level superhero. I mean, you don't need visual effects. Really. So I just reminded me He says when he teleports him in he fought to his last breath and he's still alive I just love how he shot an electrified arrow to dude and then Stopped him from being able to teleport the cw the cw on mutton shops The cw is like parody levels of tv It's like how do we make it like a deliberately bad one that people could enjoy worse and um And also like for reference, uh, those of you who are watching So i'm watching buffy right now with uh with molla buffy was on like the water the wb Which was the progenitor To the cw as where the w comes from Yeah, exactly. It's uh, it's something it's a combination. I think of our cbs and and warner brothers I think that's the idea. Yeah, i'm saying like cbs and warner bros. Yeah cw. It's just it's just nuts to me That this show originated on the same network considering how good it's gotten by the time we're getting to like season five and six And uh, yeah, when you watch stuff like, uh, infinitisms, it's like, oh my god I forgot what this can be like the barrel Yeah, pretty much, uh, I would be hard pressed to pick something Worse and I know that probably people will be like, oh, they're like b movies that are worse than they're surely and I'd be like I don't know man. Like nothing works in in crisis on internet I feel like even those b movies probably have greater stretches of time where we're like, you know, I mean this mostly makes sense Yeah, it is it is the step above coherent or sorry incoherent necessary for you to Call out things like, oh, that's the character and time is progressing forwards slowly Well, yeah, because we're talking about a show where they're teleported beyond time and space but they're supposed to the dawn of time Oh, yeah, they went to the dawn of time soon and they went to purgatory. Don't forget Yeah purgatory, uh, but not purgatory in purgatory in a specific universe Or do all universes have one purgatory?  They have to leave without him To some people somewhere in this in this crazy world that makes sense For us maybe with additional candidate would her free. You don't know you don't know Okay, well, I mean did you watch the specter tv show? I don't think so And I love how at the end they just have some again warehouse somewhere in Vancouver and um I actually like Vancouver a lot, by the way I'm just I'm just coming to go the fact that we have the home of the super paragon heroes of the universe Well, I just mean I I like uh I like Vancouver as a city. It looks really cool when they're celebrating like becoming a team at the end.  It's like, can you just go down to spotlight and just get some uh You know What what's interesting is that all of their costumes are super cheap like they're actually focusing on hero work And then you look at kate kane who will leave people trapped in an elevator hanging for their life while she While while she pimps She's such a good role model And also like that hair is super impractical, you know, like You should be cutting that off if you want to fight people Tying it tying it up slash down, you know tying it just Why do you think lyra croft has her hair in a ponytail?   Oh my goodness. We have no idea I don't think we had yeah, we had no idea what we were in for Because we were like this will probably be pretty bad, but we we were just not prepared I don't think we thought that we were going to be watching the whole season and not Yeah, don't don't fret people people think it's over. It's like no, no, no, it's it's coming just between editors right now getting there Yeah, no, it is not over. I am I am hungry for more bat woman Like I am I'm going through bat woman withdrawals Speaking of tv shows, that's my segue mandalorian speaking of bad tv shows Racializer um Yeah, I mean so we had gone through the first five episodes in a lot I love that anyone who wanted the part two to this stream will come to this one Look for the time stamp be like what two and a half hours. They start continuing cool What was the first bit about Um So yeah, I suppose we'll just the format will again be just pointing out things Hopefully in chronological order That screw with the episode that we're currently discussing and then hopefully we can reach some kind of conclusion at the end of all this I guess uh, who would you know this is the episode with bill burr It's the one where they like get a group of people to go on a form of a prison breakout You could call it a heist episode in some way You think it'd be funnier With bill burr in it. Yeah, you didn't like the joke about stormtroopers not being able to aim rags. No, it made me sad I will say I don't think I'll do devil's advocate as much this time around But if there are criticisms, I think aren't fair or fully valid I'll probably just share a counter argument here and very well, but there are more issues to pick apart especially um after this episode in the last two so Um, so this episode had a lot of cool actors in it It really did a lot a lot clancy brown bill burr richard iowaddy Uh, the girl welder number three that one can't go wrong with that And it also had the cameo from uh, all of the directors from the show. Yeah Uh, in that really good scene the really really good scene So, um, I guess I'll just get the ball rolling Uh, he he arrives and the first thing I think it's worth discussing is that it's kind of lucky There's no bounty hunters with any fobs in this station or near it, right? Um, well, that's the thing It's like a port. It's not uh, it's not necessarily Yeah, no, it wouldn't it wouldn't mean that they would have to be bounty hunters here, but there could be But we know that based off the crew that we have that the right kind of people are here Yeah, it's a duplicitous kind of it's not it's not a place for people who are above the law I mean bounty hunters are in accordance with the law, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, sure But I guess um, the whole idea is you kind of expect bounty hunters to be in places where criminals are because those are the people That they're going to be going for yeah, my sense time Well, I mean it's the kind of place that the republic the new republic certainly think is worth just destroying the whole platform Yeah That's my favorite criticism you have to hold off on that one. Okay That's the one that makes me laugh every time I watch this episode I'm trying to get a good shot of it Is it worth posing the defense that I think people would give to that uh, criticism or just I think that um It's it's just a small small like They could be and they could also not be in this area for this episode to progress There needs to not be and there isn't there's like, okay Could there I think there could be a justification for him to be assured that there isn't anyone there with a fob It might be a stretch, but you might be Well, the reason we have to believe that them that against it is the fact that he talks to the guy and the guy is aware of The guild and why mando has been booted out of it. It's like, ooh That information is spread to this post like Gotta be careful Yeah, it's shown that like everyone's got these farms and people will try to Not everyone bounty hunters. Uh, just a lot of people have them. They're not they're not Well, everyone in the guild had one like yeah, those are all bounty hunters, but Everyone in a whole guild all which non bounty hunter. Have we seen with a fob? I Which bounty hunter have we were saying no, no which non bounty hunter have we seen with a fob? I don't think there was one it's I think bounty hunters have I think Like yeah, I want to say everyone I was like just a lot of people we know everyone in the guild has Yeah, yeah, I'm not suggesting that your average citizen just has a fob that has a link to baby Yoda. Yeah Um, good thing. They weren't here. I guess this would be um, I'll hand it over to rags to to help Explain it, but is there anything wrong with bilbers gun holsters ranks?  This is not an invalid criticism rip it apart if they get details like that wrong That's like It's an impact is not important to the I don't know guns, but I just doesn't make any sense at all in any way I don't know guns, but I know swords and when they get details I guess Would you put a bunch of daggers under your armpits? Well, they're not even under his armpits. That's gonna say that's probably more practical than what he's got going on here Like just imagine those pistols didn't have the grip and they were daggers Imagine who it's tried when he tries to unsheathe it.  Like it's really awkward He has to do the opposite arms here. I'm actually curious from like a filmmaking perspective how they got those to stick in there And the 95 percent of the scenes we see them where someone isn't removing a gun from them I like the idea that Bill Burr was on set. He's like fucking Well, yeah, because you can see in the scenes in places where his arms are like they stop his arms And they they move around when his arms brush against them And naturally I I think that they did something to secure those inside the holsters except for the scene Where what's her what's his face takes Right and the fact that they had to do that probably should have clued them into not doing this at all, you know This is the shittiest load bearing gear I have ever seen it looks like it's just one of those It's one of those disney star wars things of let's just slap guns on him Just but I don't even think it looks cool, but I guess they're going to the guns He's got four guns for his two arms It does it. Yeah, to me. It just looks awkward It does it looks very awkward.   I'm they they're they don't exactly Generally they're underneath your armpits and you cross Like if you're right-handed, it'll be on your left side and you reach across your chest and pull it out Um, I'll just uh, I'll need to find and if it's on like a plate carrier vest, then it'll be in the center Generally up a little bit higher All right, I was gonna say the whole stormtroopers can't aim We'll save that for episode eight because uh, it's it's worse It's worse than what bill burst says what we get in episode eight. It's so we'll leave it for now All right Before we move on though going back to them knowing about Mandalorians, you know bounty and stuff like that Well, even without them being bounty hunters if they know enough that the guild is after him I would think of our criticism is like It shouldn't it be too hard to figure out why the bounty hunters guild is after him Like he has this important asset that he didn't even if they don't know that's valuable Even if they don't know why but they capture him. They've got they would know he's worth money And Yeah, it's like the guild wouldn't accept them didn't um didn't the target an episode five or six No, she knew specifically that it was about a baby I think so and I because if they know that bit Mandalorian has this really valuable asset Um, you'd think that they would be yeah, it's certainly wanting to find it And as to if they want to capture Mandalorian himself Well, they need his help to free this other guy And so they might still want to hide that fact and then capture him after they get them So I could I could kind of grant that part But as to how they wouldn't know about The situation when it's pretty basic information that bounty hunters go to capture someone Mandalorian is wanted by the bounty hunter guild for not delivering the thing he captured Ergo, what does he have that's so valuable and that what that seems like and if you were if you were to prod that information whatsoever, you'd find out it's an extremely valuable target Oh, yeah, massively. So so that's odd. I definitely will agree there and point that out too Um I guess that's a relevant Super chat My theory is that bur is lying about his military past and he knows nothing about his guns Hence his bad aim and him having holsters in awkward places He's not a bad aim selectively. Yeah, his aim is very good It's kind of like Mandalorian Yeah, he's bad when he needs to be for the plot And also if he was lying about uh military history in some capacity I don't know he seems to have why would you lie about being stormtrooper? He's made the point man. I seriously doubt he would be if he didn't have he hadn't proven himself at this point Yeah, I earned it in some way and the one dude trusts him the The old man. Yeah, the the scruffy looking guy. He likes him guy So can I point something out that's uh, that's uh, like, uh Pet peeve of mine. I'm not sure if it would have come out naturally But at this point do we see Bill Burr's robot arm with the holding the gun come out this early on or is that only in the actual They deliberately obscure it so it can be a surprise for us Okay, because this is my pet peeve. All right. Okay. That would be kind of cool having a mobile turret that can deploy from your back with a Single gun. I'm not criticizing that it might not be useful. I'm criticizing the fact if something like that exists in the Yeah, one of the other people you why isn't anyone else using it? Like this is something that becomes apparent in many parts of this episode Yeah, we've got more of those This is really annoys me in world building when people add something in without properly extrapolating how that would fit in logically Just think about it. If this is this useful, why wouldn't everybody use it? Exactly, you know, you might say cost But but droids are really cheap at sea now and like you build things out of scrap and everything There is so much technology and infrastructure that's gone and rotted away and everything There is so much stuff everywhere. They can build crap out of installers I don't think it would be expensive to get something like that even for a regular person So just do the uh, just do the accident thing from Borderlands 2 or anything where you have the character has built a Or have they custom made or a they have built it themselves It's a little turret. It's a little turret, buddy. It even has a little name Right, they call it or whatever or elvira or shiniqua or whatever they want to call it And they talk to it in this kind of amorous way like it's my buddy robot You know, this is my friend my little turret robot and he sets it out and it he puts it on walls or on ceilings Or he deploys it and it makes a shoe something like that They give it a character to give a little like a little combat unique thing to that person Not just it's an arm that comes out of my back and it holds a pistol like that's kind of actually that's super lame actually um Yeah, and like they could Was it custom that you know But then it's odd because the technology is already in place to allow something like that pretty well And honestly, this is a floor in Star Wars generally that the they don't employ their AI technology in applications That are just bloody obvious when it would be really useful Like they have human targeted gun turrets that someone needs to sit in fire when they could have AI targeted something That is far more you have to you'd have to come up with something as due to the incredible prevalence of Hacking and AI corruption software Um having things be manually operated reduces this risk of that technology being corrupted and used against you or something like that Right where yeah, and that's a good explanation because they talk about that mass effect And one of the the first one like the codex is where like before ships even begin to shoot things at each other It's like two entire hacker battles happening where they try to infect everyone's subsystems and stuff like that um And so it was like all right So our solution for in-universe is to make everything hardwired and man operated Kind of going back to the basics in a sense so that nothing and not everything can be hacked instantly and blowed up So next up and I would answer it well Um, yeah He so the premise of this job is going to require that a droid has full control over security and his ship alone in his ship With baby yoda, and this isn't a deal breaker for mando What we have one in a string of bad decisions that mando makes Where he doesn't seem to care about the kid anymore and it highlights two issues one his Flippant inconsistent care for baby yoda, but two is extremely inconsistent mistrust of droids If anything, I think this is the ultimate one in all of the episodes where he should be putting his foot down and saying No, I don't feel like this is the guy I've come to understand. I feel like this is someone else But he will make deals with assassin droids. He's just met and been shot at by For as the mission's being explained the droid is hacking into his ship and discovering old messages It infuriates me because I'm like Precise and then he the episode ends with the droid almost killing baby yoda And it's just like, oh jeez. This is the kind of stuff that you should have job, man You should have like really big concerns about the potential of this and it actually happens Yeah, this part is very inconsistent. I mean you might be able to justify it with the uh, the droid with, you know quill Doing so much trying to convince that it is safe, but no in this instance Yeah, like there's not much reason at all for mando to be willing to trust this thing And if you had a guy it was like we have to have this robot character in there It has to be a part of the mission and uh, it's gonna have to be the pilot because no one else can pilot like it can I'd be like, okay He will keep uh, he will be on the robot the entire mission in that cockpit watching him And while it's there the whole time kind of and then when when the ship is landed secured the robot He'll say like he won't do the mission unless the robot is going on point with the gun and he'll be behind it because he doesn't trust it And someone else can stay in the cockpit What shattered mentioned earlier with um, quill and the robot reconstructed One would think one would think that after mando goes through this episode and spoilers Figures out that he has been betrayed and that the robot was working against him the whole time And that the robot tried to specifically kill baby yoda and it hacked into his systems You would think that this would be extra cement That would solidify his hate for the droids. Yeah, you would think that after all this happens He would doubly not he'd be like i'm he'd be like i'm right about droids 100% This would be a setback for this should yeah, this should ruin any chance of him trusting quills robot Yeah He's not going to trust him in two episodes The standard thing we we were just talking about I think it was when we were first rewatching the show ready for the first e-fap on this was just that um Why couldn't you made season one about him and the droid getting baby yoda back to the bounty holder and they go on several different, you know Missions together the droid forever desiring to deposit baby yoda But as the season progresses Mando is less and less interested in that You know as they bond and stuff and he realizes that that robot I don't know that there's no really there's a lot that's like a season on its own But they fucking you know, they kill it at the end of the first episode. You're like, oh That's uh, that's a big problem is you could have had a whole season that was just mandalorian going on adventures And we're learning about what he believes His view on the world his methodology his process and then we enter season two With him finding baby yoda like that season ones Season ones climax for me would be the um the droids been helping and saving him throughout the season to work with this bounty And then he has to make the choice to uh, yeah the droids like we give up this bounty. We get the money and Mando's like Mando kills it. Yeah That could be a pretty big moment. He's killed. This is the thing. That's a double payoff He kills the droid to screw himself with the guild But he also doesn't want to kill the droid because he likes the droid which goes against all of his history Yeah, you got it's lots cool Direction to go and and that's what I mean It's kind of impactful in the first episode a little bit as a surprise But it would have been way more impactful from a character perspective had they done the groundwork But they're in such a rush to get through these eight episodes for some reason And that's the thing you can keep all these episodes the same except he has a companion the whole time being the droid And take away titi's voice and the writing you can make it really fun Yeah This show could have been really good as the point that we're trying to make Yeah, we were on it. We were really on its side. We really were Yeah, you can go back to the older e-fabs where we advocate Yeah, yeah I still maintain hope. I think there's enough to work with that. They could I don't have any hope for You know series have come back from rocky starts and stuff and the concept and what they have to work with Is still solid enough that season two could still be actually good The problem is I feel like there's a lot of things that they could have done which they're no longer in a position to do unfortunately Certain character arcs. He could have gone on certain growth That is no longer really viable anymore. That's a problem. I think for me I don't think it's impossible for the next one But I have no confidence Become a tad cynical and I'm trying to remind myself every single time that I say hey the next installment could fix this all up I'm like you said this so many times now.  It's possible, right? The storytelling talent is there. It just isn't there Yeah, I guess the problem is I don't have faith in the team that are making it So he'll the asi said Buffy had two bad seasons. It's like Buffy came out in 1997 This is uh, this is a while ago that we're citing something that got better Not to mention that even if we cited five things that got better I'd be like we're still dealing with hundreds of examples where the reverse happens. That's why I'm cynical. Okay And we just said it's not impossible. Just cynical Unfortunately things do seem to decline in value after they begin After after episode one. Yeah, look what look what Marie concluded from what I said we knew less about storytelling in 1977 What no we didn't that's not that's not at all what I was trying to say You were just you were just referencing that it's I mean for a series to get better after it's begin Yeah, if I if I'll first go to example is something that came out more than 20 years ago I'm like, yeah So I kind of just supports what I'm going on about how I'm cynical about it You think we'd have more experience now with all these terrible examples to learn from but On the hits just keep coming Yeah So the razor crest is a ship the is the name of all the the model or the make of the ship the Mando uses a couple of characters reference it throughout the season.  It makes it so that they don't turn up on like radars Yeah, this is like cocks not knowing what an el Camino is Well, it's it's it's like the idea of your computer being incompatible with something Because it's older rather than you which does happen, but not it's it's more of like a Do you get what I mean when I when I say like it's weird that you would have technology that is incompatible Because it is older rather than yeah And plus you that's not how that's not how modern Not just don't get it. I didn't realize it had anything to do with knowing the make or model. It was just the Moving What if you make your own custom ship, but it's one of a kind you just do whatever you want And not to mention that people recognize it. They're like, oh, it's that word It's like surely it's on record in some way the first episode in like the pre in like the preamble bit of the first episode Oh, it's a classic I'm trying to remember the exact wording they used to say why they needed the razor crest because It was something to do with the fact that if they used it they would be able to sneak up on the prison ship without being spotted Yeah, they have to because that that's undermined by the fact They have to fly so weirdly to not get spotted and so yeah, they try to Remain in a blind spot, but they still they want to be in the razor crest because it's Identified I think Why You would think that would be something that the That's an odd thing in an officer is another point of contention though Is that they're doing this all after and exiting hyperspace next to the prison ship? How do you not detect an exiting hyperspace like as a ship?  I'm not even like looking to reference cannon I'm literally just talking about like that just seems impossible to not know but you can it's in rogue one They detect hyperspace is opening before it does They're like sir hyperspace is coming out over there and then they look over and then it's a Darth Vader and all of his star destroyers are coming in like stop focusing on canon So, yeah, really tizmy space rules Really and there's an actual dude There's a straight up dude in the ship like could he would he not have cameras detection? It's like, oh Does the ship not shake when you attach your ship to it? Like does the ship not have cameras on the outside so that it can see at all angles if anything's approaching it I mean and what's funny is cloaking does exist in universe and so they could have just said We're gonna come out of hyperspace far enough away So they aren't detected we're gonna attach a cloak to your ship and fly in Well, they could say the reason they're using his ship is that it's a deposit It's like they're not risking one of their ships They're letting him come along and they'll pay him if he can only if he puts his ship up as collateral Like it could be the thing.  I was just like why would that convince mando? He knows robots will have better reaction time than humans. That's just like Yeah common sense like what? But like apparently that's enough. It's like, oh all right then Uh, that comes back to a point we're making earlier, but yeah, uh further more Uh, zero is like why are we using this ship? And he highlights like it's not very good in certain ways and then the old dude says he explains the benefits of it And it just confuses me. This is all a ruse.  So why would zero even question why they're using his ship? Like But the ship has specific things they needed like to do in this mission like why wouldn't zero know that he's the pilot Is this is a little bit too late to ask this question Yeah, it could be a ruse. It's not a good defense that the robot is doing to convince mandalorian that you know But like what's the point? He wasn't even questioning it. You know Clearly so far. He wasn't even questioning it. He was already here Well, I just assumed it was it was just to give an opportunity to explain to the audience why they're using his ship Oh, well, I mean, then we know that's why they did it. Yeah Random thing. I do like the design of his ship. I think it's a very I think it looks awesome. I am okay with it. Yes I think it looks really cool Um, yeah, there's a there's a line. I just want to make sure we remember bill burr says mandaloreans are the greatest warriors in the galaxy This is as good as it gets guys Yeah, whoof mando I'll yeah, they definitely won't get massacred by stormtroopers Well, it does annoy me that everyone's forgotten the jedi so much. I mean Yeah, that's that's that's a hey, we gotta wait until episode seven and eight for that floor Yeah, we're getting there. But what about the faction that basically What about that faction in that war that I was alive to witness? Who was fighting against the droids again? I don't remember no one told me So, um, if if we're to believe that this ship is really the one ship they needed because of uh That's the way it works with this blind spot and all that stuff. It's like damn. It's lucky. He had this ship then Otherwise you wouldn't be able to do this mission Like if you confuse where the convenience is so it's he needs money he contacts them They happen to be doing a mission that requires this ship requires his ship. Yeah And uh, that's the only way he could have gotten in he they wouldn't have let him on this mission If not for that apparently it's just like oh damn, but they needed his ship for the mission anyway That they had already planned So it's almost like they planned the mission knowing that he would join it Um, they the droid like engages hyperdrive and he's like just fiddling with stuff or whatever And uh, the it turns to mando and it's just like everything is functioning fine You can go down and then he just does it's like what yeah, he should not be leaving that guy's side at all Well, it's it doesn't work either way He shouldn't be leaving baby yoda at the potential peril of all of these people downstairs But he also shouldn't be leaving the droid in his cockpit. You know, it's just like you can't It shouldn't be happening this way You're not very competent bounty hunter is he? I love how Like we brought this up in that first episode, but satan just manages to open his weapon cache by pressing a button It's like mando. You need better security to do this. Yeah The second time someone has done it by accident. Yeah It's tough. Those things should be designed to prevent entry from someone getting into it on purpose Why aren't they locked? You know, why isn't there a lock function? Yeah, you think that after the first episode he'd be like, oh someone's like fiddling It's not even because you'd have some kind of an argument if it was like a switch to open it You'd be like, why does he have a switch to open it?  Oh, it's funny. Just that star wars girl was like, what about it seems like she's like, what abou