Okay, hello. Good morning. Welcome to force around the world panel. My name is home food. Thank one of the organizers of false Asia The main objectives of false Asia somebody to bring people together From different communities different project across borders to share a change and collaborate We are here because we believe in the value of force and its impact on our life and the society In the panel today, we have four speaker coming from very different backgrounds We have two people represent the corporate side and two people here represent the community side and today We will find out how company and community can work together to scale and sustain open source projects around the world With that, I would like to start to briefly introduce our panelists. I I Would like to start with June O'Brien Who is the head of open source at indeed.com? He is passionate about enabling smart and meaningful Contribution to open source ecosystem by both developers and corporations Don't himself is a developer an archer coach a game tester a built engineer An automatic testing pacillist and he has been raising money for charity on and off for over 15 years Both as individual and as part of his job Actually, I heard about you from a lot of common connection between us I believe that we attended many conference together in the past but never get a chance to to meet in person You know, I Have the same sense that we have been in a lot of the same events But just have not managed to actually connect with each other So it was really nice to connect with you and be here across Asia Yes, thank you very much for for joining us to force Asia summit for the first time And I remembered it also your first time to Singapore. Yeah, it's my first time to Singapore as well So welcome to Singapore and to force Asia summit And my first impression about you what I would like to continue the conversation but I feel you are very approachable and Warm person so I can I feel that even though you work for a big company anyone from the audience So can just approach you easily and ask question and you really patient like try to sit down and explain to people How everything was so I'd really appreciate it and thank you very much for sharing and being here Thank you. I think it's important to share the information that we have from the company perspective and from our own Thank you. I'm going to need a hug later Haven't even gotten to you yet. It's okay Okay, it's next. I have very demerit Who is a system network administrator by day and a conference organizer by night just like myself He is one of the main organizer of force them the largest free and open source conference in Europe He has been involved in the organization of the events in 2005 He currently serve as the director of the not-for-profit behind the conference and Where as many other has within force them team So rarities not only our speaker. He also a volunteer here at force Asia summit Who has been very busy recording all the session here in this room the last few days for us? So thank you very much very it was an absolute pleasure to do so and welcome to Singapore and also Thank you. Indeed. It's my first time very happy to be here. Okay. Good. Very good Next I have Michael jang so Michael jang also where many other have He is He is a chain lawyer at raspberry by fanatic He currently supporting open sort program office at Facebook He is also a board member of open chain an initiative by the linux foundation to make open sort license Come lion similar and more consistent He is also a board member of the rap QL foundation But more interestingly you have a very international background Michael. You were born in Taiwan Great Currently based in the US spent over 10 years in China, Thailand Japan Myanmar Hong Kong What bring you everywhere? It's hard to say Maybe 10 years from now. I'll figure that answer out when I'm sitting in a therapist's office But I do like to travel so it is what it is. I actually just spoke at Fosdum a while back and Is it is probably my second time around the circuit? And so Dwayne and I just came from the open source leadership summit So I went to Fosdum. I went to a lot of other conferences. We went to the Linux Foundation open source and I came here and Yeah, we much we much prefer Fosdum Let's just put it that way Mike as compared to the open source leadership summit not yes. Yes, and and and this is This is completely off topic what you were asking me, but This feels much more like like home, you know the conferences like this right like at Fosdum They had the the bouncers at Delirium Cafe who'd asked you the questions and that was just the coolest thing ever, right? Which question did he get? so I Got I got the first three questions wrong and then they asked me Was the most what's what's the next stable release of Debian and I do raspberry pi stuff a lot So I knew that answers buster, right? But but the first three questions I got wrong because I'm not technical enough But at least at least I got it and it felt earned right it felt like I I belong Which was like like a very cool feeling So I think I first got into contact with you about two months before the boss I just remember when you said that Facebook is interested to find out more to learn about boss Asia and also the first time Facebook became one of our sponsors and I'd really like Michael in a way that when he communicate with us I don't feel that we talked to a sponsor So I feel that he'd like a community member so I can share with him anything I can tell him our difficulty and Talk openly about expectations. So this is something that I'd really like I did not expect company like Facebook would be so Open and collaborative. So thank you very much for me for being here. Thank you Okay, so last but not least Roland Turner Who I have a personal relationship who is not only my very good friend My very good colleague who have been involved who've been working we are working together in the fourth Asia Summit since 2015 He is in his daytime. He is the chief Drive-Ace officer for trust field where he is Responsible for the company's information policy and practices He is also a founding member of the hackers base here in Singapore.  I do a range of things Okay, so really have a very interesting panelist here for this section So before I start with my first question, I would like to encourage you To openly share and discuss among each other, so you don't have to wait for the question So please feel free to speak to each other. I understand for most of you This is the first time we get to know each other as well Okay, so to Kick things off. I love to ask each of your speaker here to tell us What brought you to open source in the first place? What is your current role and response? Disability in the false organization or project that you involve with and finally Please tell us some things that most people don't know about you Yeah, so how about let's start with very What brought you to force them? What are your mad responsibility now in the organization? well, I started off in With the network team in Folsom Someone said hey come and join this event help organize it. It will be fun It won't take too much of your time That was a lie a blatant lie I've moved on through the organization doing many different things just helping out where hands were needed and Finally, well the last few years. I've been very busy doing video because well The scale of our event really calls for a very specific solution But I've also been doing many other things within the organization. I Partially do sponsorships. I do General question answering I'm still part of the program committee for some bits of the program that we run So that's why I wrote that I wear many hats within the organization and Yeah, so your question what brought me into open source is I Have been using a computer since the mid 90s, I think And as every child of the mid 90s in a Western country, I was given a Windows computer And I felt very unsatisfied with what I was able to do. I broke the thing many many times and I was trying to understand how the computer actually worked, but I saw that I was more working with a specific operating system rather than Understanding how the computer was was actually working So I was looking for something new and then I stumbled up on Linux and installed pretty much all of the distributions and Fence them I liked and kept on using that and that's how it all started and it felt very comfortable And then I learned and it's only then that I learned about The the principles behind all of it the the idea the spirit And the community feeling and I was absolutely charmed by it all. So that's why I stayed Before we go on to the next thing I'd really like to call out the Value that the FOSDEM video team provides for the wider community If if a conference wanted to pay to have all of their talks recorded it would be prohibitively expensive and The amount of content that your team makes available to everyone through your efforts is is really a tremendous gift to the community Thank you. Oh, you're very welcome We think it's really important to not only get the content at the event itself and Available to to a limited number of people but to allow remote participation lots of people can't make it to your conference So it's actually great that people engaged with your attendees through remote participation even we have Hacker spaces all around the world setting up Streaming events to watch the FOSDEM live stream together for those who can't make it to the event I think that's absolutely fantastic to see So happy to see that it's a reality Sure If I I'll try to rewind all the Questions in order as I can think about it. I Was starting my tech career as Linux was kind of exploding and I was very young in my career and I did not come from a technical background I at best I I say I came from a liberal arts background actually went to a religious college and so I Spent maybe the first two-thirds of my career feeling like I was trying to catch up to a technology curve that was just out of my grasp and and kind of in the a Very typical like pre open-source contributor mindset of I'm not smart enough to do this I'm not there's nothing I can add to the community, right? So there were a lot of you know Long nights chasing through dependencies trying to get something to work in the garage and and a lot of struggling with things but overall my Like participation in the open-source community was was fairly limited There was a I Think pre bugzilla. There was a bug tracker called mantis that You remember mantis I think That was my first open-source contribution to add a flag to make it work If installed on Windows NT so that gives everybody kind of a framework for where I was in my career And I was always working On things that were you know using a lot of open-source technology or adjacent to other groups that were doing open-source work But it wasn't really until I took the role at PayPal running day-to-day operations of the open-source programs office where I was helping developers get their work approved by legal and sort of Serving as the The open-source concierge or the open-source service man, which is kind of where the jumpsuits came from Trying to solve other people's problems that I really started to grow into the role that I have now Which is head of open source that indeed where I manage everything from the sponsorships and involvement to policy and Designing initiatives to encourage people to get over that hesitation that I myself had in the beginning of making their first few Contributions and getting a taste for it Yeah So I guess I got out into open-source You know as a kid in the mid 90s right it I think I was I was sort of I Mostly weaponized computers against my parents so it was just like Just fun to do that In all sorts of ways, and so I think that got me got me really interested in in Well as part of as part of that I also dropped out of high school I did a lot of other stuff But but but one of the things one of the things the benefits about Being alive in the mid 90s is that you know network engineering was very much a very lucrative job back then So I got into Linux through doing sysadmin and a lot of sort of back end in for in for a stack, you know Maintenance and so so that that's that's where Probably one of some of my contribution had to do with back-end automation things to automate it stacks and things like that I think I've always always been Interested in and I always had this view of the community But I've it wasn't until I sort of had more of a legal role that I Sort of came to appreciate the the benefits that it would bring right and I think I I see it as This kind of very unique Sort of community that that that that is actually Where that where that where the values actually Are more important than the leverage, right? Because a lot of communities are actually based on the leverage of You know may not necessarily be the side of the company, but there's other things right maybe maybe the the the purity of the you know the The dogma or some other thing, right? But but I think here the community is mostly based on certain values of openness and inclusiveness, right and and and I think I Think the way that's sort of You know the legal the legal rule the sort of license the way, you know The role that licenses play within that I think is really, you know can be weaponized That in a way that that can be depth, you know harmful to the community or it can be beneficial, right? and you know one of the things that I became more interested in is is is figuring out a way to To use the law use legal tools to safeguard the community, which is something that I find is very compelling But do okay, that's more or less Stormans sort of innovation with the Copy of their licenses, which is like okay corporate exists it creates an opportunity for Developers where they individually or in a corporate context to exert power of others and then he finds that after the objectionable And so yes, it's like okay. Let's construct licenses that have the the reverse effect. So yeah, this is part of my own Connection to this absolutely Did you mention your special something that people don't know about you There are so many things people don't know about me Special things, you know, I Let me think about that and we'll give give Roland his Opportunity intro and maybe everyone So I was a teenager during the 80s. So it was sort of Apple twos and CPM machines and occasional IBM PC running DOS When I arrived at university university had a an arm-dull mainframe running Unix Took me about 15 minutes to just play Oh my god, this is this is the real thing and so Pretty quickly, of course, I mean there's a much more powerful environment than what I've been accustomed to BDSes were fun and that's great But the the stuff that the Unix allows is quite extraordinary compared to the much simpler operating systems Custom to Pretty quickly, of course because this was at the time My the university had one central mainframe in the school of the science haven't have a Sort of a big sun machine a bunch of externals, but of course in both cases admin access was clearly unavailable and that met a whole bunch of things that Unix were to do were unavailable to us and so With some help from a staff member of Interesting involvement. We set up a program in society Which to my continuing astonishment is not only still operating itself celebrate its 30th birthday yesterday party in Sydney And so Yeah, we had by various ways got our hands on Many computers, but it's mostly some equipment and then by about 90 to both Torvald's early Linux was out and Jawats had released three six PSD And so quite suddenly in about the same year right on two different paths. It was possible to Run a full Linux full Unix ish system on a PC and That was mind-blowing and so Yes, the ability to Study the code to improve the code on my machine to show that stuff that was Really important as a rationale for open-source being important But over time the other thing that I began to become aware of was Storm and constantly Sort of expressing his philosophy in a variety of different ways began to notice that some of what he was saying resonated but they these sort of potentially severe power imbalance between individuals and large organizations and or commercial or government concerns me a lot and so the My perspective is not exactly the same as Stormans, but certainly very heavily lean towards the F more than the O And for that reason my work as a chief privacy officer my role is sorting out personal data protection issues compliance risk management and ethics in the context of analytics company that analyzes data about people in employment context and so I'm also talk later today about GDPR and how GDPR and software freedom are fairly closely aligned Remarkably close to that. So that's the pieces sort of fit together. But yeah, like most of us the path where it was going wasn't obvious until it happened What brought me to FOS Asia so Homebook and I guess Mario were running FOS Asia in neighboring countries Vietnam Cambodia. That's maybe yes And in late 2014 Hong Kong came to Singapore To explore the idea of running FOS Asia in Singapore you'd studied here, right? So she was familiar with the city, but Wanted to try running the conference here. And so she turned up at a weekly Networking open house, I think it's a better way of saying it at JFTLA which was a technology startup accelerator program that was running at the time Looking for people who are interested to support and we met. Yes, that's awesome. We definitely need to do that And of course this is for me an extension of having been part of the group that set up Hacker space here It's that same interest in being able to play The technology to sort of find people who enjoy doing that sort of thing and then to sort of encourage the normalization of that Events have overtaken us in 10 years of Hacker spaces operation The world has changed and Singapore has changed faster as usual And so it's less important to be sort of proselytizing that sort of approach, but the So the whole maker support Is sort of independent of Hacker space but there was nothing going on that was specifically pushing or encouraging development and understanding in both Prompt with the free and open source elements and so yeah, okay, this has fallen in my lab. How can I help and Yeah, the first bits of it were introducing Hong Kong to People who provide venues for the first year we ran we rented a Theater for the Friday track but within had a bunch of people at a box and we won just open their premises to us to Provide the breakout rooms. So I found I think all one of those Invited a minister to come and speak that was absolutely amazing Yeah, so Crawlin has also been a big supporter to other very important members in in the team So I know that whenever I have any problem the first person that we think of is rolling And you know that at one point we we talk and you say something that we never forget So I asked Roland why I use always like willing to have other people When do you get time for yourself? But even though he ran a lot of project himself and he told me that by helping other people I Can actually learn something new learn the new way to solve the problem in the more effective way So it's not for me. It's not a loss. So but it is again by helping other people and I never forget that So thank you very much to continue your support to to post Asia and the organization of the summit. You look And moving on it's always very fascinating to hear story of Everyone here. So I'm very curious. I try to talk to as many speakers as possible here for Asia But 200 people it's really not possible. So Michael and I yesterday. We thought about Let's sit now and and write together a book about people in open source So we hope that that will kick off in the next year or so Okay, so let's move on. Let us now talk about sustaining fossil projects So then the day before yesterday You have a talk about sustainable Project through sponsorship. I believe could you and I'd read something One article where you wrote the different the difference between corporate donors and corporate sponsor Yeah, so in the position of keeping our funding for the four projects Could you please explain a little bit about this and how what are your ideas or suggest open-source project? to sustain open-source project so for Context for people who weren't in the room for the talk that I gave a couple of days ago the sustaining fast projects talk centered around a thing that we're trying this year where The sponsorship dollars that we give to projects that we support are determined by people that indeed who make open source contributions So you make an open source contribution you vote on where the donation goes There's a lot more information about that. I'm happy to talk about it afterwards But it's it's really only Like a tiny piece of the problem, right if you look across all the conversations and all the The come the problems that have come up since Heartbleed and you know other projects in the intervening time that have expressed problems with the maintainer burnout and You know just a very small number of people who are doing a tremendous amount of work trying to keep core free and open source projects running Giving them money doesn't make more time. It doesn't reduce their burnout, right? And so the the long-term goal of the program that we're trying to build is Design we're trying to design the program that gets people inside the company more involved in the projects that we use right And contributing into those and helping pick up maintenance burden and so on there's a fascinating metaphor At least it's fascinating to me as I as I kind of look across the stage. There's there's two people from a corporate perspective There's our panel moderator and there's two people from the community and the corporate guys have two of the mics Right, so the community guys are sharing a mic between the two of them, right? And it's a it's a fascinating metaphor if you look at this is what we have to do, right? No, no, we have to be more involved as Corporate citizens in making sure that we're getting the community the resources it needs and sometimes the Means making sure that they have funding to run events and sometimes that means they have funding to pay for infrastructure Or to buy hardware if they need it, but more importantly and much more importantly it means that We are allowing our employees to help lift the maintenance burden for projects kind of across the board That's my we had Mario asked me why sort of you're this part of it a week or two back and sort of off the top of my head variance of that the What I suspect is occurring. I think it's going will keep occurring is that the interests of Businesses generally a larger organizations in particular will increasingly Effect what's happening in open source part of it is The engineers are simply sitting in sort of Corporate environments at whose interests in having an efficient way to produce software well suited by having people in their teams Contribute to the sort of low-level non differentiating stuff rather than The whole multi-metered here problem and go and build a low-grade one internally that's more costly worse less reliable less capable, etc The other 63 or 4 but The other big one is that software is eating the world and That that don't know it will continue to shape various things for I would imagine a couple of decades at least That means that the demand for engineers within organizations is going up and particularly the demand for engineers time So this thing the point about money doesn't provide a solution to burn out What does is corporations being able to reshape job roles to allow those support functions? Maintenance particularly the drudge work that people would rather sort of just get done on a payroll than Forget that spend their weekends doing So partly it's here. Let's encourage Organizations to do it, but partly I suspect that the recruiting interests Corporations will encourage exactly that behavior and this I'm sort of as far back as the 2000s with Google hiring Andrew Morton And I asked him at the next conference right of that year So what are you doing at Google's as well pretty much the same thing I was doing before You know just cool Andrew Morton's a Google. Sorry Linux kernel antenna And so yeah, you're fixing code connecting people Occasionally doing a talk for Google, but mostly just doing the stuff he was doing and so that Google was doing a decade ago. I suspect that many more companies are now having to do Much lower down the sort of picking order be like simply because They need to you know, it's recruit I'm gonna hand the mic to you and stop talking the thing that I that I want to drive us toward as an entire industry is less thinking about hiring that that one Like really well-known open source engineer and more about getting all of the engineers Doing a little bit of work on all the things that they touch kind of all the time, right? I think the the net lift we can get that for it will be much more significant and much more beneficial to solve the problem But it's it's gonna be slow to get there. It's gonna take time But that's that sort of working down the picking order if you like that the what was ten years ago I sort of get a high-profile guy to demonstrate that Google was serious. It is now turning into help How do I get engineers to work for me? So that I think is happening Starting to happen by itself. It'll develop at the time So during this wasn't the script we agreed on when we were sitting in our back rooms with our cigars So I totally agree with with doing that For larger companies engagement really means bringing Anything and everything that a project needs, right? And I think that's what doing was saying right, which is not always money but deep organizational change, right and I think one of the things that My organization has been struggling with is how to equate like GitHub stars to Money that we pay our engineers, right? Because that's that's really putting your money where your mouth is, right? You can't you you're not actually incentivizing people to move up in the organization if you're not awarding them monetarily for For contributions, right, but figuring out a good way to do that figuring out a way to do that That's meaningful as much is very very challenging and not easy to game. Yeah, it's very easy to game And and and so that's that's something that we we would like to work on right to have full-time people work on open source and things like that but I think When I think about the sustainability problem, I'm actually very optimistic because I feel like I feel like there's a lot of Possible solutions out there, but I feel like I also feel like that, you know, and this is sort of what my talk was about but I feel like as Open source moves more into the mainstream. I think people that The overwhelming majority of companies don't do open source and people in the community engineers as we as we as we sort of train engineers to talk Talk more sort of to sell better sell open source I think I think I think there will be more adoption at a wider variety of companies And I think that's only I think that's biggest one of the biggest parts Sort of reservoirs of untapped potential to spread adoption right is to spread adoption of it You know in a way that that that sort of infects more of Sort of corporate corporate interests where we intertwine them with corporate interests But at the same time the key is of course maintaining our values while we're doing that So very so I want to ask a little bit about the Fossum conference. It's been around almost 20 years Yeah, how do you sustain? the conference and see there any Challenges that we could share with our partner here that we could they could support you in the future so How does Fossum sustain itself? We have Two well two major sources of income one is of course sponsorship So if Facebook would want to sponsor you'd be very welcome to you Just putting that there And the other one is the one that we really really value the most because it is By our community we ask for donations Voluntary donations and you get a t-shirt in return for your kind donation, of course but About half of the of the income of Fossum is Made by the community the conference is completely free to attend. It's completely open. There is no registration You just show up walk into a room attend the talk be there engage with people holding a stand We don't care who you are or where you come from Just be there and enjoy yourself and Getting donations from the community is really important for us in as it Really shows how much people value what we're doing and what we're providing and We try to well run a very tight show So we try to spend well every year that we spend we look at it twice before we actually do it We're entirely volunteer based and no one gets paid to to organize Fossum Which obviously reduces cost So that is that that is how we how we work The most challenging parts of it all is actually Trying to Convince sponsors of the value of Fossum because one of the things that we do what we do tell our sponsors is that We're sorry. We're grateful for your contribution, but we cannot offer you any anything in terms of content there is No sponsored talks at Fossum a sponsor can have a talk But that is completely unrelated to to them being a sponsor the program committee and the sponsorship team are There's an air gap between them and that's it's there for a reason Sponsor people do not talk to the program team as to not influence anything Same goes for stands We offer sponsors The most visibility we can without intruding into the content So we'll go as far as you know showing your logo saying thank you in the opening talk and in the closing talk but that's pretty much it and We see that the sponsors that we get Actually get that message and truly want to want to support the community and They don't really care about Being present with five or six recruiters and you know talking to people to you to find jobs No, they want their engineers to attend and their engineers to enjoy a conference with great content and Participate in that way Druling, how about our situation here at Foss Asia? so within This is a permanent discussion with variety of trade-offs One of our bugbears has been catering We don't have we have either no registration or free registration. We can't cater to it. We don't know Actually, how do you do that? Just go to the cafe yourself or what's the so we don't provide catering on-site? So I mean I'm amazed by the abundance of food everywhere almost everywhere I walk I walk into has some kind of drinks or food or whatever It's pretty cool to see but no we don't provide food to our attendees So we have a we invites food vendors street vendors Okay, so that that might also be part of the sort of expectations here Our schedule also very nice so we try to make it as convenient if possible to the attendees Which also depends on the financial situation of each year So when we get more supported we try to offer the maximum convenience for the people And those I want to roll into explain a little bit between the trap between business and community. So we Running for a show. We want to have the image of we want to welcome not only the developer Of course, so we've become but also enterprise. So that's the idea to bring people from different fields together so So that's a conscious choice that the That's just the engagement with the diamond The most extraordinary form of that so far And perhaps it's part of your Pursuing corporate adoption, but it is we're dealing with responses not merely as sources of cash or that's pretty damn important But also as a very of my other comments that the the progression Certainly the next decade or two for open source Quite about free software is going to mean deeper engagement with With large corporations because that's where the money is that's where the jobs are that's where the engineers are going to end up being for most of their careers and so there's everything from the very light interaction we're having with Facebook this year to the Multiple sessions a consultation and a separate dinner that occurred with time of clientele For two years actually ahead of them forming an internal open source division which for an old-world manufacturing company is a bit of a change in culture So, yes within Fossager there's a conscious drive to engage with corporates as Partners and almost targets if that's the right word but as because these it is partners not in something involuntarily, but it's to Directly assist in that program that process that I think the state that we need to or want to get to is to To stop thinking about The the corporation in the community and start thinking about the community Corporations don't join a community people in a corporation join a community, right? Corporations don't sponsor events people write checks to sponsor events and so on and as long as we continue to To frame the thinking around, you know, there's the people from the corporate world, and then there's the community It maintains that division Where we can think about like we are members of a community now There are good reasons that the community sometimes looks at, you know corporate decisions or corporate participants with skepticism Companies do not always act in the best interests of the community. They often act in their own best interests And I think it's the responsibility of people who run open-source program offices of who share knowledge with each other To make sure that their companies are showing up as good members of the community and most of the people that I Know that are involved in those efforts have that very much on their mind. It hasn't always been the case You talked about how sponsors for for posthum they don't get special, you know Treatment as far as getting, you know talks placed and everything else. We've had that here this year one of the one of the sponsors was Pressing for what was very clearly a product pitch for a closed-source product like that. That's no, right? That's I don't think that's good behavior on on the back on the behalf of the company, right? But not everyone in the company in any given company kind of gets it and there's if you look at like So the closest thing probably a typical corporate events team has to Think about When looking at the community events in posthum and posse Asia and freedom source events It's trade shows and it's more normal at something like a trade show that you write a big check and you get some time Right, of course We always end up talking to marketing because it looks like a trade show exactly and it takes a lot of education to Get people there. So You know For people who run programs or involved in open source programs Continuing to do advocacy for the community that is a key part of the role And it's something that you're leaving out of your role then Thank you, so I think that we only have a few minutes left I would like to open the floor to the audience if you have any question for our panelists About open source how to sustain open source Projects conference, especially questions from Michael who doesn't want to take the microphone No, okay, so Then I would like to Get back to the panelists for the final questions. So what would be the one action? Every person here in the audience can take away when they leave For Asia today I'll jump right in and give everybody a time to time to think about it There is something that you can do today to make a difference for a conference for an open-source project for a community event for community space that you've been You might not even have even recognized it But you may have recognized it and felt like it was outside your reach and maybe that's going back to your company and Just asking someone for the first time. Hey, I think we should sponsor this or Maybe it's finding that project that you use all the time that you've you've never opened an issue on or never gone and tried To participate in the thing. There is something everyone in the room is capable of doing That they may have been hesitant today There's the only thing that is stopping you from doing that is sort of your own hesitation I encourage you to find those if you can't find them come find us and we'll help you find opportunities to get I Would like to you know tag on to that Many of you have probably written some software I have been guilty of that too And thought that it was not really relevant for other people. It may not be, you know Very special or it may be very specific to do a task But just you know consider releasing it as open source. I mean it may be sitting in your Backer on your backup drive somewhere doing nothing, but it may be of interest to someone So don't be shy and just you know publish it. Don't wait until you think it's perfect It is much much more important to release it as soon as possible so other people can you know, maybe Help you find your way and improve your project as you go Sort of very into those and came up with a friend in Cindy who's a bit sort of bummed that he's realized That what he's trying to do was too complicated before we can't get it done sometimes the hesitance Arises just because you've set the scope too big And then this is with starting anything at all. Okay, fine. You can't jump across a canyon in one step what Start with a small or subset Eat one piece of the elephant at a time so if it's if you're in that situation just pick something a little bit smaller and get it done whether it's a Conversation with a colleague or a quest for an employer or a bug fix or bug report or documentation collection or whatever it is Pick a small thing and do it and then you Don't have anything really unique to say But yeah, I think I like what was said about not differentiating between The community and the corporate in the same way we spend so much of our lives at work Right, so I think that the one the one thing on top of everything, you know I think I think the action is to do something but I think I Think beyond that I think it One thing that I would think would be really helpful is to take the energy and the community that we have here right and in a sort of Kind of a creepy way start spreading it at at work, right? Where we're you know look at the people at work as people yet to be converted, right? and And start there right because there's a lot of people there who who who could be interested, right? And we spend so much time there and that that's what I think It starts with one of the actions that we talked about here. Okay, so that is all the time that we have Thank you very much for your participation Thank you audience for joining this action Enjoy the rest of your


Hi everyone, Sean with jaspyscasebreaks.com here doing 2019-2020 prism blaster one box break random team number three Where we're giving away $3,650 eminence spot at the end of the break. No joke So we'll randomize list of teams and customers names then do the break of the one Blaster box itself at the end of the break will re-randomize all 30 customers names top name gets a $3,650 spot in eminence which is coming up next sold out so Here is the list of customers Sean Maddock down to Christopher Gerard last spot mojo times three and the teams from the Atlanta Hawks down to the Washington Wizards dice world randomized both lists and pair them up four to four eight times eight the hard way eighth and final time from Sean down to Ashley Now you see eight there eight on the dice now eight on the teams Eighth and final time from the Brooklyn Nets down to the Phoenix Suns eight times eight on the dice I'm not gonna read off every customer in their team, but we'll get them all on screen and highlight some of the Better ones for you guys no trade window on this since it is a filler Memphis Grizzlies chances for John Morant Igor sleutzer IF Wizards Rui Jean Maddock Lakers LeBron Jason fracter Pelicans Gary Myers Zion Heat Tyler hero Christopher Gerard Nick's RJ Barrett Igor sleutzer IF. There you go. So let's print and rip After this another randomizer another dice roll another randomizer top name $3,600 spot in eminence I've been here for breaks of eminence. This will be my first one. I'm doing on my own Some say it might be the best the best we've ever seen Somehow I also am in that boat There's our final list Let's find a nice rookie silver for you guys while we're in here Maybe a retail lot of Nice Cameron Johnson to start Phoenix Suns Ashley Demaro Tyler hero emergent Miami Heat Christopher Gerard Luca Donchich Dallas Mavericks Michael Bonn Volante Jabari Parker silver and Lana Hawks Christopher Gerard Nikhil Alexander Walker rookie relic for the pelicans Gary Myers Carson Edwards Nice rookie green team color matching there for the Celtics Ryan McGregor Jordan pool for the Golden State Warriors Luis Ramirez or Lewis Ramirez LeBron James hyped green That's a pretty card Los Angeles Lakers Jason Fractor Tremont waters for the Celtics Ryan McGregor JJ Reddick silver for the pelicans Gary Myers And Ben Simmons wraps it up. So there's the break itself Now let's give away an eminence spot from Shawn Maddock back down to Christopher Gerard three times last spot mojo new dice roll name on top after six and a three nine times Ninth and final time. Okay, a Very special. Thank you from spots two down to 30 for getting in on this break and giving us a chance to do this Hopefully I can do better for you next time on any randomizer, especially if we have another evidence but special congratulations to Igor Sluis Ryev You just got yourself a thirty six hundred dollar spot in eminence basketball coming up next Nine times on the randomizer nine times on the dice Igor on top. Thank you guys to the rest of you. That was 2019-2020 prison blaster one box break random team number three from jaspys case breaks calm I'm Sean jaspys case breaks calm eminence coming up next


Hey everybody. Hey everybody. Yeah, that's better. All right, so we are here today I hope I'm in the right room to talk about Spark and the authoring experience improvements that have happened in Drupal 8 and how That affects Drupal 7. A little bit about me. My name is Angie or web chick. I go by on Drupal.org.  So I I work with Drees in the office of the CTO at Aquia I am a core committer for the Drupal project. So I commit patches and help, you know Get Drupal 8 done faster and more better or I'm a Drupal Association board member and then I came into the community five I'm sorry in 2005 nine years ago some old Through the Google Summer of Code program and kind of got my feet wet in open source that way and became Totally immersed in it because I realized that anybody can contribute to something cool like this and people really want to help you So, you know if you haven't contributed before definitely come to the sprints tomorrow. It'll be a lot of fun So what we're going to talk about here is I'm going to give a little bit of background information on Spark I'm assuming if you're in the room you probably have some idea what Spark is But just in case you like hanging out in rooms called ballroom G just to see what happens I'll let you know what that's about Then we'll do a little bit of a demo between Drupal 7 and Drupal 8 to compare and contrast the authoring experience Then we'll talk on if you're stuck on Drupal 7 which pretty much everybody is how you survive on Drupal 7 Until Drupal 8 when it's out when all this stuff will be baked in and then we'll also talk about what's next and for this part Especially since we're not not a tiny room but a fairly small room I'd like to actually do some audience participation here because we're currently sort of in throws between trying to get Drupal 8 out And the next sort of wave of innovative stuff we want to do So I'd actually like to hear from people in the audience about things They feel are Drupal's biggest pain points that we should be looking at or other Solutions that are out there that we should keep an eye on so talk a little bit about that kind of stuff, too so Spark is this project that was kicked off in 2012 by Dries Bytarts and what he wanted to do was see a focused attention given to Drupal's Authoring experience because he worked a lot on the developer experience We work a lot on site builder tools and things like this But really we don't do a lot for the people who are sort of I call them victims of Drupal You know like those people who are stuck using Drupal every day when when someone like myself goes and creates a website for them And it's really important that their experience is awesome because you know, they're the ones who in a lot of cases We're really seeing this trend where it used to be it called the shots and they're like I like Drupal So we're using Drupal when more and more and more companies are bringing in the people who actually have to use the system every day to Help form the decisions around that and so if the thing isn't easier to use it actually becomes a Drupal adoption issue And so we were trying to address that So the goal was to build really kick-ass features for the current version of Drupal meaning Drupal 7 in Contrib and then we wanted people to be able to use those things now so that we could also at the same time Be building that stuff into Drupal 8 so it would form the next version of the platform Is that a question back there, or are you just stretching? I Agree, it's good for a good stretch. Okay, great So I'll talk a little bit about our approach and how we went about that so We started by looking at a bunch of our different competitors And we were really clear we wanted to look at not only just like that the usual suspects like WordPress and Joomla that are open source Contrib or competitors, but also the proprietary competitors like CQ 5 SDL Tritian some of these ones that a lot of people at Drupal Khan may not have even heard of but these are ones that are Multi-million gazillion dollar things that actually have less capabilities in Drupal But nevertheless people use because they don't know any better especially large businesses So we looked at all those we kind of graph them out and what we found is that hands down Drupal is the most Flexibly technical solution that there is and I think that's that probably resonates with a lot of people in the room Like the reason we use Drupal is because it can do anything if we want to build a blog For our little club site we can do it in Drupal if we want to build a you know headless Rustful API walk-a-walk-a thing for MSNBC that you know It goes out to 60 different mobile apps and a web front end that isn't it made in anything But no JS you know we can do that in Drupal and it's great because you know it really allows You know someone can start with a not very sophisticated knowledge of web development and go all the way down to the biggest Projects on the internet with this one tool that they have to learn however, what we found is on the authoring experience side everybody who is kicking our butt and We see this happen a lot even just in the open-source world where people will oftentimes Look at Drupal in WordPress side-by-side and go oh my god. This thing is terrible I'm telling you to use WordPress because it's way easier and I can just do stuff with it And they're happy with WordPress until they hit a wall where they try to do like that one level up of project From what they have been doing and suddenly they just find something that WordPress can't do or can't do easily And then they begrudgingly come back to Drupal and then once they do they're like oh this thing is totally awesome And it's like how do we stop that one or three or five or whatever your gap? It is between people first looking at Drupal and sort of dismissing it as Something only for geeks or for simple things and you know really showing them the power you know that it has so What we did is we sort of looked at all of the different facets of authoring experience and sort of map that across Different things and we looked at all of contrib and we looked at you know both what Drupal core had in the box And we chose to focus in a few different key areas that really weren't getting a lot of focused attention So you know we well I'll talk more about what those are later, but you know fit things like in-place editing mobile authoring Where we saw you know people like say Palantir was really owning the workflow space We saw you know like a lot of that Dixon was doing a great work on content staging stuff We saw that there were areas that we didn't have boxes to tick even with contrib modules and we sort of chose to focus there So our approach was we started with design and we we tried to you know first Kevin O'Leary our designer He would sort of mock up these things in fireworks or in vision or something like that and sort of run them past the Internal team and we are all engineers We tell them all the reasons why none of that stuff would work And this was you know like not gonna work with contrib and all these kinds of things and we'd sort of do a You know and then a round of initial feedback and then what he would do is create Clickable prototypes and either in vision or sometimes an HTML or a JavaScript or CSS So instead of like looking at an idea of how something would work You'd actually like interact with it and then find ways that people were confused and stuff and we do hallway testing so you know at aquea We have a lot of both in technique very highly technical and also really non-technical users So it's a great place to just be able to grab random people and see what they think And then we would refine those designs and share the results with the community So the community could also see what we came up with and then come up with their own thing It's cool dance. Yeah. All right And then we would iterate iterate iterate iterate a lot to try and refine those designs further So for example the the mobile navigation bar that we worked on that actually started from the community from a gentleman named Lewis Nyman who kind of came up with this idea of like you know putting some it's just static HTML stuff together See how a mobile friendly toolbar could even work and then we sort of built on that We're like what if there are icons and stuff like that and we built on it again to say okay We have to somehow handle the nesting stuff and people need to find things And so there's a lot of rapid iteration type of thing that we did before we got to the point of trying to code it for Contrib and for core and then we would argue a lot basically that was our last approach as we go into the issue queue and say We really think this is important. Here's all the work that we've done. Here's the people that we've worked with and then You know talk a lot to the developers about implementation challenges with those things and then over time actually got a lot of these features into core So what did we actually tackle so far one is whizzy wigs? So when you download Drupal 8 it actually has a whizzy we get it or Pre-configured out of the box. It's CK editor But it was all done in such a way that you could swap out CK editor for tiny mce or any other You know sort of whizzy we get it or thing or just turn it off if you don't want a whizzy we get it at all That's totally fine because some of us like you know to remember how to write HTML like it's 1999. So that's totally valid In-place editing is the ability to actually click on something that's on the page and edit it right in place without having to navigate back To the back end form This is mostly actually improvement for more small sites than enterprise sites honestly because enterprise sites often have like this Huge workflow of all kinds of approvals or whatever But it does make it really simple and it solves the preview problem You can totally see what's actually happening on the page and see the effects of editing it immediately And then we worked on a streamlined content authoring experience. This again was an initiative that rose from the community the Boyan Summers Roy Shulton and Ryan Frederick from the Drupal UX team sort of envisioned this Photoshop mock-up of how we could redesign the content creation page to be much more streamlined and and usable by people and we Actually injected funding into that effort wonder crowd donated some engineering time as well To try and get that thing done and you'll see that in Drupal 8 also and then in terms of mobile friendliness a Lot of work a lot of prototyping around. What does this look like on an iPhone? What does it look like in an iPad?  Whatever like that kind of thing really trying to you know not focus on just the desktop experience But the whole way along and doing mobile first and these kinds of things so so I'm talking a lot It's probably time to actually see this stuff in action and see if I'm full of crap or not So here we go a live demo. What could possibly go wrong? Any questions I guess before I dive into that about spark our methodology what things we looked at what things were prioritized? Yeah Yeah, so the question was so since spark was very focused on Drupal 8 Is there any work to backport some of that stuff to Drupal 7 and yes there is but don't spoil the rest of my presentation? Yeah, sure Yeah, so the question was is it able to edit entities or only in line text It's able to edit any field on an entity So and we'll see this in a second here when I show you on nodes But you can if I add a custom block it can also edit the title and description of the block if I add a I haven't tried on user profiles But in theory it should also work on user profiles if you turn it on for that So any it's it's designed in such a way that is is entity agnostic it works on a field level So it will in place editing whatever field that you throw at it So there's no reason it wouldn't work on commerce products or anything else Yeah, great question actually All right, I don't see any other hands. So we'll jump into this and Pretend this whole whole part is done in black and white and like I'm crying a lot because like it's so hard anyway I'll just show you so this is Drupal 7 most people have probably seen Drupal 7 and What it looks like so, you know if I'm I'm I'm gonna be a content author I'm gonna create a blog post about Vancouver, which is where I'm from and it's a town I'd love you all to visit some time So I'm gonna add a content and I'm gonna add an article and then I enter a title This is like welcome to Vancouver and I might give it some tags, you know like mountains and oceans or whatever and then in my body field I want to say welcome to the Wonderful city of Vancouver. Maybe I want to put some emphasis there. What do I have to do to put emphasis there? Yeah, I have to know how to type strong tags, right That's fun. Can't tell you how many content authors in big, you know, or even like nonprofits and stuff like that They totally know how to write HTML. So this is great for them, you know, like anyway, so I was like Here's a picture of our Wonderful city You know, I'll put a colon and I'll fill this out in a second and then please come visit us You know, I'll put a smiley face because we're so friendly. All right. So here I want to put an image in So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna scroll down and luckily in Drupal 7 there is an image field in Drupal 6 This didn't even exist. So this is you know rocking stuff So I browse and I go and I look in my desktop for my image and I go, okay, there we go Upload that perfect. That was wonderful But now what the problem is is I want that I want the image here Not like over wherever it's gonna do. So what I have to do is I have to right-click this I have to copy the link address and then I need to go up here And I need to know how to write an image tag, which is a little bit trickier You know, maybe want some alt text in here. What am I doing fingers work with me here, man? There we go. All right. So I'm Don't forget a title tag. Good point. Yep. So title Vancouver and then you know you're I'm all X HTML ready So I know to put a little closing slash here because I'm down with that All right So that is what in a straight out of the box Drupal 7 installation a content author would have to do in order to put an Image in a post everyone agree with that Ha you're wrong. You know why because what watch this I'm gonna save Oh one other thing I'm gonna highlight is like this form scrolls forever and it's got all this stuff and all of it Looks really important. You're like, what's this? What's provisioning? What's this and you're like clicking on all of them and wondering if you should do this or not next thing? Okay? Finally, you're like, okay. I've dismissed. I don't need to do anything. I'm gonna save this What's gonna happen? What's that? Oh if only we had two images. No, what's gonna happen is I'm not even gonna get the image You know why? Yeah, because I use filtered HTML and I actually have to use full HTML if I want to use an image in a post because That's advanced, right? So I have to do this And now I get two images and one of them is fine But the other one is in extremely enormous size and it breaks my entire layout Yeah, all right So Drupal 7 is awesome. No So like and you know people in here are like kind of rolling their eyes like yeah Yeah, web chick nobody uses stock Drupal 7 they use like all kinds of cool modules like whizzywig module can work around this problem There's like cool modules that Nate Haug has written You know like inline image and stuff like that that totally work on this one I'm like yes, and you only know that if you are a Drupal person who's been in the community long enough to know what things to Google for to find that information out for normal people who just download Drupal versus WordPress and they try to do this thing in Both systems. This is exactly the experience. They end up having and this looks really bad for Drupal So let's talk about how this has changed in Drupal 8 so in Drupal 8 I go to my it's the same thing and I go to my home page. I click add content This is funny. It's actually doing a thing because the screen is so narrow, but we'll talk about it later So I'm gonna add an article. Oh Did you notice something overlay is gone?  Wow That's a reason to use Drupal 8 right now. No, I'm just kidding Okay, so I go to article and I type, you know, welcome to Vancouver. I don't remember what I said Something something awesome something and oh look at this. I want to make this bold. What do I do? I click the bold button. Wow. It's just like fantastic. Okay, and then I'm saying cool picture Welcome, etc. Okay. I don't remember what I said and the other thing If I want to upload an image, I just do it right here image go find it. It's whoops. It's that one great I enter my alt text right here. I don't know if it does title as well as alt I should look into that a little bit, but we're gonna call this Vancouver. Why are alt text important by the way? anybody know For accessibility exactly so if if you can't see the image and it's not just because you literally can't see it Cuz you're blind, but it could also because your cell phone is freaking slow and it hasn't downloaded all the stuff Then it will automatically put the text in there for you to have some idea of what's what's happening Sorry And SEO very good point. Yes SEO because Google Doesn't know how to see your images either although apparently it does now parse JavaScript, which is really interesting All right, so we're gonna go ahead and save that and It's big, but it'll fix itself. Don't worry. That's cool oceans mountains something I don't know what I said and then I'm going to save and publish it Boom There's my image. There's my stuff And something that's kind of cool is this image is pretty big right now. I won't do that yet We'll get there later. Don't worry about the image size for now But the point being I don't have to scroll side to side it didn't make it that big it actually shrunk it down to the appropriate width So that was one step right was filling out the form and it was doing the things the other thing that I called to attention there is that all The stuff I had to fill out like all the things that I as a content author needed to worry about those were on the Left side and I went ahead and I did all that stuff and I didn't need to worry about this other stuff This other stuff was on the side so I can look at it if I need to and maybe I want to add a special path other than node One to this page, but it's not right in my face like begging me to click on it So this is that whole content page redesign thing that we've done in triple eight. So so that's pretty cool, right? Yeah, all right So what if we want to edit this thing now? So I spotted a typo where I meant to put two exclamation points instead of one because that is not nearly enough Exclamation points right so what I have to do is I have to click this edit button And then I'm taken back to this thing that looks absolutely nothing like what the front end of my site look like right? This has no relation whatsoever to what I was just looking at but I'm like, you know betting on okay It's probably okay. Let's go ahead and you know add my second exclamation point here But I'm kind of nervous about it So that you know it is actually what I want to do is probably put a width on this image So it's not so bad why so maybe do width equals 600 or something like that So now I'm like okay well now that I've done that that width thing I want to see what that looks like right? So you click preview And then what happens? You see your the note of the content you just created twice in case you missed it the first time there it is again in your admin theme which looks nothing like the front end of Your site so basically you really literally have no idea what your thing is going to look like until you save it And it's live and people can see it. It's a little bit of an exaggeration because you can unpublish it by default But you definitely don't get anything like a real preview experience and it turns out 600 wasn't short enough I actually need to make it more like 400 so I'm going to repeat this process three or four times until things look the way I want it's very frustrating So in Drupal 8 if I want to do the same flow where I want to I'm not going to touch the image width because that's a different thing but let's say I want to you know put up I actually want to fix my typo here because Sumihini is not a word that I'm aware of maybe in a different language So I can click into quick edit and I can just say oh yes, of course, you're going to do that anyway So I can say Vancouver and I can say you know here. I'm going to do something something dang it Okay, there we go It's still an alpha. We're working on it getting it all the same There we go. And here's my cool picture And and I can even into your question was does it only work with text because so far I've shown in line editing a title in my body. It's like yeah, yeah, yeah, that's text What about something like taxonomy which is actually not text it's actually a reference to something else if I click on this What happens is it automatically swaps out the back end form on the front end so I can actually edit it right there So this is what you'll see for things like dates username fields taxonomy fields and stuff like that Basically, if you can't reconcile it to like a HTML rich text Elements it will actually just pull in whatever you'd see on the back end But the difference is you get it right in the front end and can see the effect. It has a media language site So when I'm done a quick save And then that's edited it's done I didn't have to go to any back end form if I made a mistake I could just quick edit again and go back in there again. It's very very simple and easy to use So, you know, that's cool. Yeah. Oh, right. Yeah One other thing I wanted to call out Just to give Drupal 7 I'm giving Drupal 7 a really hard time I want to like I don't it's just for the purpose of this session But it's like Drupal 7 is actually awesome And there's many many distributions and things like that that will offset all of the things that I'm showing you here But what I'm trying to emphasize though is from a Drupal adoption standpoint. This is a problem Because if you're not an insider, you don't know a lot of these things So the other problem with Drupal 7 and you're already kind of seeing this here see how this toolbar is starting to get kind of janky You know like it's popping up a hello admin on top of the other thing And it's actually gonna get even worse as I shrink down like, you know, okay I'm looking at this on a very skinny cell phone or something like that This is what it's gonna and I actually happen to have a very skinny cell phone on the other desktop And so this is what it looks like in an iPhone and you like half the screen is taken up by this toolbar That you know, so you're gonna even seeing your website You're just seeing this toolbar and how to click around it and stuff like that That is not a workable solution for anyone using mobile stuff so in Drupal 8 we've done this thing called responsive design and how responsive design works is And unfortunately the screen width is not wide enough to make it go fully horizontal But picture it if you will that on a really wide screen You'd see tabs across the top for home about us things like that And then as the screen gets narrower those tabs would start to go on top of each other and sort of reflow the page And so that's what you're seeing here We're like the the tools block ends up beneath the content rather than all squishing back and forth And then the other thing that you'll notice is as this gets even smaller You'll start to see like the the description on the navigation blocks went away, right like Goes like this and then as I click my manage toolbar it will actually flip Orientation between vertical and horizontal really wish I had a different resolution to work out here But trust me on this it'll go back and forth But it goes whoop whoop and it will go back and forth when it's the screen is wide enough It will accommodate for a for a horizontal view Which is really handy and then if you look at Drupal 8 in a cell phone. This will be interesting How am I gonna do this? Nope Okay Yeah, maybe I can change the scale. I have never I've never demoed this on like I don't know what this is like 420 by 120 resolution. It's like really really small The good thing is that Drupal 8 looks good in it though. So that's good. Oh Huh anyway, oh good. That's what I was looking for go back and then you're here and then go there Yeah, great. So in Drupal 8 it's gonna look fine. Here's my login thing Guess what my password is? It's very secure And then when I'm in here that the bar just comes out I can pop in here go to you know structure into configuration any of those kinds of things Really easily just from my cell phone and even what you'll find is that I don't know how well it works right now Because again, we're still in alpha, but even features like quick edit work So I can do a quick edit here and I can start the actually like Typing stuff in the thing and it actually works on a cell phone as well So everything that we've done to make in place editing work everything else it works completely fine on a narrow device Yeah, whizzy wig totally works. Let's go down to the whizzy wig Yep, so here's your bold button your italicized button so I can do you know Oh, it gets a little funny because like the iOS and sometimes Android have different actions for stuff But yeah, the buttons completely work you get a little funny things when you try to do You know fancy stuff like select all and doing this really fast with your fingers. Sometimes you run into iOS thinking did you mean to call up Siri or whatever? But you know like that kind of thing because I always mean to call up Siri when I do stuff But anyway, yeah, so so yeah, we anyway the bottom line being that we put a bunch of time into making sure that this worked Well Not just on you know a desktop computer, but on everything else and the other thing I want to show you is in Drupal 7 It's really funny because like that's what Drupal 7 looks like By default if you want to see the content you have to do this like swimming exercise You're like, what is that? You know kind of stuff. So anyway, it's just it's really quite a mess So yeah, so now that I've scared you all away from using Drupal 7 Let's talk a little bit about Drupal 7 Yeah Yeah, right Drupal 8. I don't know It'll be released is the answer for when is Drupal 8 released is when it's ready And so when it's ready means when there are no critical bugs and right now we have 97 of them But we have had 320 or something in Drupal 7 at one point so we're we're not as far away But it really depends on the velocity and we're in a kind of a state right now We've been relying on the same like group of say 30 people to drive the release home for Two and a half years and they need some help because they're starting to get burnt out and things like that So the more people who ingest energy and you know funding and beers or whatever it's needed to kind of give these guys a boost I think the better off we're all gonna be But you know it could be anywhere from we could still make the end of the year possibly if we get a huge injection Like I think Dries mentioned his keynote like if you get three times better at closing criticals And we currently are we could make it by the end of the year, but we're probably looking at 2015 at this point So it'll be a while. So that's why you're like, yeah, that's all cute and stuff But what about the sites I'm billing today, which for the foreseeable future are going to be on Drupal 7? Well, I have good news for you because there is actually Drupal 7 backports of every single thing that I showed you here pretty much So I'll put these slides up because I know the type is probably kind of small but I'll just read them out loud So the whizzy week feature is CK editor module. So just use CK editor module. You have the whizzy week feature For in place editing we back ported the stuff in Drupal 8 to a model called quick edit used to be called edits But we changed it to quick edit because people like renaming things I don't know The responsive toolbar is back ported in a project called mobile friendly navigation toolbar But all I would remember is nav bar because that's the name of the project URL For responsive front-end theme there is a responsive Bartek project But most people don't build their websites with Bartek on the front-end So what I would do if I were in your situation is download something like Omega or Zen or adaptive or there's tons of them And they all handle that responsive Grid-based like yaki yaka stuff for you So you just basically throw CSS on top of it like my website is responsive ish And I don't know anything about Responsive markup the only thing I did was download Omega and make the background red and put my picture in the corner So, you know, like it's pretty cool If you want a responsive admin theme our team has worked on something called ember Which you'll see in all like the aquea demos and our product demos and things like that Responsive images is a module called picture That's not at all unclear Responsive tables is a module called responsive tables. That's a lot more clear What responsive tables is I guess I didn't show that one second because it's actually really cool How responsive tables works is in Drupal 8 All of these things are our views like the the people page the content page and stuff like that What it'll start doing as the screen gets smaller is it'll actually start dropping columns out I'm already at the salons thing But when it starts you'll see things like when was it last posted? Who's the author these kinds of things and you can actually rate columns on a scale of like low priority medium priority or high priority? And then as the screen shrinks down any low priority columns will start dropping out and then the medium priority ones You can actually make the admin tables responsive so they work on a small device as well So that's really neat and you can do that in Drupal 7 too And then that simplified overlay I talked about just that little back to admin or I'm sorry back to site link Dave Reed wrote a module called escape admin that does that so so really everything that I showed you here It's awesome that Drupal 8 shifts with it and it's all integrated out of the box And it's definitely going to help Drupal's adoption Especially when it's compared and contrasted with some of our competitors, but for people in this room who are like kind of Drupal insetters, they know how to search for modules They know how to grab things to put in their project and they can totally use this And then I we have a month we have a distribution called spark like Based on the name of the project that actually pulls all this stuff together, but it's really not well maintained So if somebody wants to like join the team just to keep the thing updated with like core security updates and stuff like that I'd love to talk to you because we we've been very focused on Drupal 8 and not really on Drupal 7 But but if you want something that kind of shows you how to tile these things together into one Single distribution you can build off of spark is a good project to check out So what's next? So what's next for spark what I'm calling spark 2.0 is First before we even start spark 2.0. We need to get Drupal 8 a lot closer to done And so what we've done is is the the implementation team for spark who's which consisted of Jesse Beach Whim leaders and Gabber Hoishie who've been doing the engineering work on all these front-end improvements They sense Prague have been focused almost entirely on Resolving beta blockers resolving critical issues for Drupal 8 to try and help get the release out the door and doing a lot of work Like unblocking other contributors trying to bring you know new folks on board You know trying to lead you know cat herd things like let's write change notices for all the stuff So we can get the beta out things like that and for this foreseeable future that looks like that's going to continue to be The focus of the team for now But then once we get beta out we can probably start taking a look at kind of what's going on in the world today Because the last ideation process we did was about two years ago and you know the web moves quickly So we're really interested in that Then we're going to try and pill you know pick up the bill biggest pain points kind of build out prototypes start solving these things in Drupal 8 Contrib first before we start solving them in core And then I just put a spoiler alert there that in like from talking to people I have a feeling that media and layout are both going to rank on the subject of things that people have a hard time with In Drupal and could stand to be a lot better But I'm also interested in other ideas and then finally what we want to do is propose these improvements for you know In G's spoke about semantic versioning these kinds of things are stuff that could go in a Drupal 8.1.x release or an 8.2.x It wouldn't have to wait all the way until Drupal 9 for most of this stuff So what we're going to try and do is build these out and contrib get some people using it feedbacking on it And then when they look solid then propose them for inclusion in core so that again the evaluators of Drupal get all of this Stuff bill out for them in the box And then it's ported between versions and stuff so These are some trends that we're currently watching in terms of things outside of Drupal There's a lot of stuff that's been heading towards like really minimalist authoring So like you know We're using pretty stock CK editor kind of stuff which is still a huge improvement over Drupal 7 But a lot of you know things are going to even simpler interfaces and removing complexity and things like that I don't think Drupal can make enough assumptions to really get as minimal of a default authoring experience as something like medium Or something that's very focused around a specific use case But I think what we could do better of is is providing tools so that site Drupal site builders could build interfaces like that just by clicking Around in the interface, which would be really neat Personalization is a big area that we're watching so we build this product called aquea lift But there's a tons of them that are trying to do this You know kind of getting to what Dries called the contextual web Which is you know knowing who you're talking to knowing where they're coming from Trying to make the site built it with them in mind So if I search, you know flights from, you know, Vancouver to Austin and I click into Expedia comm It's showing me results for that and not like have you thought about renting a car and you know Bogota? It's like no, I'm trying to get to Austin, you know this kind of thing and then this whole thing around contextual site building which is sort of like a Simple way to do is like in place everything. So it's not just in place editing of thing It's like I want a block right here where I'm looking and the ability to actually like pull up a drawer Drag the thing into that region and then close it so you don't have to keep bouncing back and forth between this administration panel That's sort of abstract all the time exploring different ideas around that seeing how much of that is actually feasible with Drupal And how much isn't those are sort of the trends that we're watching But what I actually wanted to do since we're kind of a small group is sort of get some ideas from the audience here Because it's actually really good time to get those ideas because we haven't started doing any of this yet It's all kind of on the back burner while we're getting Drupal 8 out So I'd like to spend how much time do we have here? I have so skinny of a screen. I don't have a clock 135 I think we have like 30 minutes or so so let's maybe spend like five minutes just people shouting out this will be fun Right very participatory. What are the biggest points in in Drupal for content authors that you've seen in what you've built out? Previews I love it Can I show a hands for previews? Oh Man, I'm gonna bold previews. That was a lot of people. Okay other things Menu items.  Get it into the menu where you want it Both everything about menu items Yeah, I I agree. It's really hard. All right show of hands for menu items Little less. All right. I'm keeping it on there, but I'm not gonna bold it just yet So because I I also run into that but I wonder if like things like that We could actually squeeze in before Drupal 8 even releases. That would be pretty cool. All right other ideas Editorial workflow I heard a couple other ones revisions links file attachments Within the WYSIWYG. I just show you some cool thing We actually have the ability to drag and drop files into the the here. I'll show you I Didn't get a chance to show that Y'all are helping me refine my Drupal 8 demo. This is very helpful But like if I wanted to put like a PDF file or something in here Or this translation text I can actually just drag and drop it right Well, okay if I had text enabled for that field I could actually drag and drop it into there, which is actually pretty cool, but it's not very discoverable So I think there is definitely more work we could do around that Drag it from there into the okay. Got it. So so desktop to WYSIWYG Okay What was it? Buck uploads. Yeah, that's definitely a huge problem. Yes How many times do I need to upload the Drupal icon to my blog? Use it a few times right other things Okay Yes, it does For content authors have another slide for site builders So hold those things for you know like that, but yeah, fair enough They want control over the design of what they're Okay, got it. So the opposite of what he said making it more So not a blue or blue. These are the blues you have and you deal with it now. Okay. Yeah Okay Can you explain easier to write a theme for an editor? So like easier to manage or like better selection of admin themes. Is that what you mean or? Yep, I got it Okay, so like that. What was Jay scenes project styler or? Skinner. Yeah, like Skinner. Yeah Might be helpful to know what they do think those are so we could call them that but yes, that's a good point Yep Sorry, I'm doing a really sorry for the recording I'm doing a really bad job of reading back what people said but I'm typing them for everyone to see so I'll upload my slides and you can see all right Sorry, I cut someone off. There's no hands. It's just shout it out Copy paste from Word and IE is done a CK editor totally does that so that's yes, but I'll Have you tried it in Drupal 8 though? Okay, it should be better, but yes, I'll write it down paste. Oh I'm running out of things That's so sad Here what can I do here we go? What yeah, I could use triple 8 I could make an an entity for every single one of these entries We could have five star ring on each one of them and you know like The ability to collaborate collaborative editing. Yeah, I don't know what Pate was but that's now coming into this So the ability to like to Google Docs editing on in Yeah, it may be it's better integration with Google Docs so you could just yeah, that's the other side of that, right? Yeah, we have links somewhere up here so when you say links what you're talking about is when I want to make a link to another article or Like something internal to my website. That's hard. Is that what I mean? That's not a sub bullet. That's a Okay, this is all good. Okay one more. Yeah, I heard some groans in the room, so All right, this is a good list. So here's how this works everyone in the room gets two votes and I'm gonna go through each one and everyone's in razor hand for the twice Please please yourselves two times you get to raise your hand for everything that's on this list, right?  We'll do this like in a better venue But you know it's just we're all here. Let's try it. All right previews I Think previews is staying on the list. All right menu items Sorry menu items. All right editorial workflow stuff, which I why should I interpret it as things like draft? That was a reasonable amount of people here. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna like I'm gonna put these in relative priority here. Okay, so editorial workflow is more painful than menu items But menu items is still painful revisions Nope Links within a page to other pages things like that. All right. It's reasonable amount I'm gonna put that in the editorial workflow bucket a way to see relationships between contents and the views that they're in the blocks Sorry, man. That one's getting iced All right file attachments desktop to whizzy wig trying to make your files work nicely All right. All right Staying on there, but it's down with these things bulk uploads Decent amount. So I'm gonna say that's a middle tier one So here that we're gonna do bold those and italicize those and I'm gonna leave the other ones normal We have such a great system here. This is gonna work out great. All right Finding existing files dealing with existing files and linking to it did I already talk about that I think it's redundant I think that's very similar to links. Let's put links and files file links together And then we'll do that Let's move paste from word to its own thing though because that's a separate thing paste from word how important does that to people? Not nearly as important as that you guys are very loud, but not very in number. It's just like the core developers. It's like, yeah, okay Abstraction between editing and presentation layer being a huge problem So I would raise my hand for that, but unfortunately we don't rank Editing CSS the ability for content authors to make a blue or blue on their site Couple people, but nope How about the ability to for content authors to easily provide apply pre-made styles to the content that they're doing? Couple people. All right, it's staying on the list, but it's All right consistent content between pages locking down fonts and headers and things like that Which is actually kind of the same thing. So I'm gonna put both of those together and make it Consistent styling which includes colors and stuff. I'm gonna put it in the middle bucket Don't you love my scientific approach here? Anyway Different body layouts three columns two columns stuff like that That Did you vote any other time? All right, so you're using both of your votes. All right, that's cool We can we can do that that's probably up here closer to the top of here. Whoops Okay Terminology region block et cetera node things like that exposing that to content authors I think that's actually a huge problem, but apparently not big enough for us to work on so no I actually think we can fix that. Um, that's let's talk about that more after this and then I think it's like There's a whole manner of things What I found when I did usability testing which I encourage everybody to try because it's so enlightening when you sit in a Room and watch someone use Drupal for the first time and and we did this actually Google did a did a hangout version of your usability Testing on Drupal and there was an IRC channel. We're all like, no Don't click that link. Oh god, you know like kind of thing. It's like it's totally like that, right? So what I find is like if you show someone a mock-up, it's like make this and it's like a website mock-up in Drupal They think okay, so there's sidebar content There's content in the header and there's content this that in Drupal We're like well, that's a view and that's a block and that's a menu and that and like people don't think like that Like so there's too many words to learn and then the words that we do have to learn are exposed to people who don't necessarily need to Know them. So all right It's not just that I want to be a little bit mindful of time I don't want to start a huge debate because we have to finish in 13 minutes. So but yes That's I think it's it but was that kind of what you were getting at there? Yes fair enough.  Nope, okay, not really. So it's still kind of a low priority thing. How about collaborative editing trying to make it work like Google Docs? Couple of people but not really all right. So what I'm getting From this conversation and we'll have many other conversations. So it's fine previews are a huge problem The ability to select between different layouts is a huge problem And then a lot of things with getting files into your content and how hard that is bulk uploading Things like when you replace a file. What does that do to other links? How do you select existing files you already have so you don't have to keep uploading things? How do you find stuff you've already uploaded and things like that? Okay, cool That's great I might skip the site builder one because we talked a lot about content authors And I think a lot of that kind of overlaps unless do we want to spend I really have to watch what time I think we are actually literally done it too. So How will we do this first? Let's jump to the third slide, which is what are other projects to watch out for? What are things that you've seen that you've used internally the people really liked that we should watch they have really cool Things that we should be evaluating Drupal against and when we're doing spark 2.0 trying to pick the best ideas from I Think general but focused mainly on like content authors and site builders Toast Like that, okay Yep, I hear that a lot too Yeah, Squarespace has nice editing capabilities for sure What is it? I'm sorry Anybody in here ever have experience with like cq 5 or some of the huge ones Didn't sound like a site core. It's terrible People use it. What is it? Yeah, actually, that's a Yeah, what was it called? I'm sorry Impressed pages cool craft CRAFT You never know it's web 2.0. So it could be like X are I don't know schwa anyway live fire Yeah, things like that though with schwa. I don't even think I know how to write a schwa anymore. I don't and Then yeah, cool. All right, that's great. I knew about a couple of those but a couple is I really didn't so thank you for that All right, we have eight minutes. Let's start showing out site builder stuff There is all these people like I have the same problems as you we should go drink. Yeah All right, others say that again. Sorry. No, actually In Drupal 8 a new capability of blocks is you can create custom block types like you can custom content types So you can make an ad block a silly block Whatever you want and then those blocks are actually managed in the configuration management system So you can edit them and because they're entities with fields on them in theory You should be able to in place edit them as well Yeah, I yeah, there's so the ability to like kind of control and do synonym matching and things like that So your your taxonomies stay nice What's that? Workflow with taxonomy, okay, I wonder how that looks in a cell phone. It's probably not good Markey circle click. I like this. You're designing like 2055 user interfaces for today. This is this is good. All right Say it again Circle taxonomies. I have a question. It's none of my business, but are you a librarian? Okay, I just wanted because you're like I'm taxonomy man. That is my thing. So I'm just like, yeah, all right with Say that again Contacts for blocks So better visibility to what's showing up when so like a UI for that Just saying the things you guys are throwing out here because like I didn't hear once like panels in core rules in core like No, what I'm sorry No, but it's it's good I like hearing like the problems that people are actually having and maybe they're not that maybe it's just fine for stuff like this all right form Okay, and that'd be cool. It's play sweet So I'm sorry. You were trying to say Content yeah content migration right migration and then I'm sorry. There was one right before that and I just play sweet All right, we have Four minutes, so I'm gonna read these really fast hmm Reusable content that appears in different places making that whole process easier to do Really? Okay, not very money. All right ex portable blocks with editable content These are really granular. I don't know that we're gonna get a bunch out of this exercise We'll try it though. All right. So no winners yet taxonomy term management sanity. So the ability to all right. There we go That's a few people. Okay That goes to the top of the list workflow for taxonomy is That part of the previous great and we don't need to ask about it I don't know what that was supposed to be but roles and permissions and men making that better Marquee and click yeah, all right fair number of people there. These are tell says Better block visibility is more powerful block vis-a-vis is hide things on different pages Nope, sorry block vis-a-bilities Hierarchical taxonomies with views being I'm assuming being able to create views of them kind of thing. Yeah, sorry Extending context for blocks Okay, extending context for blocks and better visibility into which blocks are I'm gonna take these one at a time. This one didn't make it. So let's combine it with your other one Better visibility into what's showing up when? Really that bites me all the time. Okay adding tokens in context UI path auto like Sorry Breadcrumbs. Oh, there we go that lit up some folks. All right breadcrumbs Block groups Nope These are all good ideas, but we can only do like two of them so I want to like become hey point and click form design. Oh Wow Dang we found our new preview That's cool Kevin O'Leary we so happy to hear that he is wanting to redesign the field UI for I don't know how how long he's Wanted to do that and that's exactly what you're saying.  All right middle of the road, but it doesn't rank All right, you all are very surprising to me. I really appreciate this and display suite Few people. All right, awesome. So what I've heard from this exercise is if I can summarize in One minute In terms of content authors the biggest things that people see happening all the time is previews are terrible And it's really hard to tell what's going to show up when on your site and how it's going to look Especially in different browsers, especially in different things like that So that's a good area for us to focus on and also on the site builder side making it easier to do what Drupal can do well, which is build this like structured content stuff And so making it easier to design entities and fields and things like that To actually build up the forms that content authors use and then in terms of things that we should watch out for in terms of new projects There's a lot of cool stuff happening on the editing side. There's some cool stuff having content staging side We should take a look at these and other technologies to try and figure it out. Thank you very much everyone I really appreciate your participation So what'll happen from this then is sometime in a few months we'll be putting out a general call that we're actually firing this up for Real, but I really appreciate your input because I'll go ahead and pass that off to our designers And he can start marinating on that in the meantime. So thank you really appreciate it