Let me see how good I am before you. Let's see what we start with. All right. I'm a little rusty.  That's what it is. Let me get in pitch.  What'd you say? Try the lower one. I ain't hear what you say.  Guess who we in here with today? Mr. Marcus Blackwell. That's just like class, I swear. Make music count. What's going on? How you doing, man? Man, you say you got this fail-proof system that can teach people math and music at the same time. Yes, yes, sir. Okay, give us a little background first. I'll see you to hooded. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll get to that in a second. You will? Yeah. So just, just, that's how you do? This is my class room. We're going to get to it right now. Tell me when you're going to get to it. With a hoodie, you know, that's where I'm waiting for it. Don't worry about it, go ahead. I'm just messing with you now. So everything with me starts with, I played the piano. Word. I played it several, since I was five. Classical, jazz, gospel, R&B. All right, let me see you play this, dude. I knew that was coming.  What cue were you in? Don't worry about it. I played, that was Pee Wee Longway I was playing. You ever know Pee Wee Longway? Nope. I bet. So you're going to sing it? Go ahead. You're going to leave the door open? Go ahead. Girls in the club showing love. Not that she has the wrong song. I never heard it on the Casio before. Come on. What's up? And the Laws come in. All right, Mr. Marcus Blackwell. Okay. I thought you were just going to really, you know, just do your thing. There's a toy. There's a toy. There's a toy. Oh, okay. You really just put it over there so I wouldn't have it. Oh, yeah. All right, go ahead. I'm Pete Gaines, bro. I teach, man. You know, it's just like class. You know, we're going to do the math first, then we're going to get to the music. But no, all this started because I used to be really bad at math. Really? Yeah, math is already intimidating. And I would go so far to say that math is taught a particular way when it comes to black and brown kids. Which way would you say that is? The worst way. Okay. Because where all this comes from is the fact that there's a lack of culture when it comes to curriculum. Right? And for example, if you ask a kid from the hood to solve a word problem that references, I don't know, whole foods and they don't know or haven't been to a whole foods, you worried about that versus taking out the math to answer the question. So what that represents is a lack of cultural responsiveness in lessons. And so the way that I said we're going to fix that is by taking popular songs that we all listen to on a radio. That's what I'm going through. I see you got two chains. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is that math class. Katy Perry. Yeah. Beyonce. Exactly. So imagine you and, and it's so funny in class, like when we introduce this, the first thing that happens when kids see the list of songs is they look to see if it's OK.  Yeah, but it's cool because he got there by doing algebra and then is more confident to talk about algebra because Rick Ross was the end result from him doing that math work. OK. So you as a parent is like, I need more Rick Ross in your lessons because it's transitioning back to more confidence in math. Oh, algebra. So we're not going to do algebra today. Good. But I did. I wouldn't do no algebra with you anyway. But I did. Algebra almost made me drop out of school. No, it actually, that's the case for most people. Algebra is like you make it if you do well or you don't. Brown was better at algebra than geometry though. So that makes sense because geometry is different. It is. It is. Shapes and stuff. Algebra still numbers until variables. But I did prepare something for you. Like what? I'm going to teach you how to play a song on the spot if you bear with me. If I bear with you? Yeah. You better bear with me. I got you. I got you.  I tell you, let out. Those are the exact students that we work with.  Because we're going to make them do well. This man got a whole program. So here's the thing. This main music count is an app. It's a free app that you can download onto your phone. Make sure you download the app and make music count. Yeah. You scan the barcode there. And so what happens is you pick the subject you want to work on. So we're going to do simple fractions. OK. All right. So what happens is... Don't say they're simple fractions. I got you. I got you. Trust me. Trust me. You're not about to make me look bad. No, no, no.  I promise. So you pick your subject you want to learn and then the songs pop up. And again, it's like you say it's the list, right? So we're going to learn straightened in by Migos. OK, bad. OK. So here's how it works, right? This is how we're counting on the piano. So all you're doing is when you move from one key to another, it's a half. Because in music, it's called a half step. So this question says G plus one. There are two halves in one, right? So all you have to do is start on G, you're going to go half one. So G plus one would be A. And you'd push that as your answer. OK. OK. I'm going to do another one. So E minus one would be what? D? Exactly. Look at them doing math. Stop playing with me. I thought math was a problem. It's not. So yes, E minus one is D. All right. You want to roll? What's C plus two? It's got to be E. Exactly. Exactly. And so what you're doing right now is you're getting the notes as answers, but you're applying math to get there. That's what we're doing. So you get all of them right. And so when you get them all right, you're solving for the notes to play the song. So your reward is you get to hear the song and the notes will light up on the piano so that you can play. This is when you play. Hold on. Stop playing with me. It's hard to tell you. That's enough. Oh, that's crazy. You saw that? I put this. You saw that? I can't just play with tape playing. I got to put my own in there. And that's fine. This is the reward for doing math right. The remix song produced by PSA told me. I'm almost there. See, now I might be able to slide this because you played it there. See, look at you. I'm on the summer. I'm on the summer. Catch me in the studio all next week. Price just went up. You should be teaching him. He does music. Oh, fantastic. Show him one. Because if you could teach him, then you're good. Because I'm a great learner. He on the other hand. So wait, let's break down what we just did though. We got to talk about what we just did. You applied the concept of fractions to the piano. And as a result played a song on a piano. And you've never played a piano before. Exactly. So you get a two for one for doing your math correctly. That's what this is. And the reaction that you had is exactly the reaction you should have in a learning environment. Something that's positive that reinforces what you just learned. That's the reason why we perform better than your kind academies and other math platforms. Where is this program available at? Yeah, so first it's in App Store. So just search, make music count on your phone or iPad or tablet. This is too good, bro. You got to be teaching this in person, bro. No, so here's what we do. We actually license this to school districts. So that they can implement it into math class, music class, after school program. That's very positive. I like that. We've even used this in children's hospitals, man. Really? Yeah, because kids that have illnesses, have a longer stay in the hospital, need ways to keep up with their learning. So this is the way to do it. So the cool part is the list of songs is endless, right? Like it's all genres. I mean everything from Migos to Taylor Perry to, what did I say? Katie Perry. Taylor Perry. Taylor Perry. Ooh, look. What music you got? The kids pop songs. You get the money, but hello. Right, right. And that's the beauty of it, right? Like once you do one lesson, you just go down a rabbit hole just looking for your favorite song. Then you just go to another subject. So we did fractions. There's integers, multiplication, division, algebra, pre-calculation calculus for the older kids. So it's a full curriculum. And then after you do the math, you can practice the song that you just solved. So that's the piano playing piece, right? Like you got to practice the song as you learned it, so you can do that too. That is dope, man. And just for you to, you came up with this? Yeah, I did. I did at Morehouse. Told you I was going to bring it back. Now like, math is all confidence. That's really, I mean really anything, right? And I got confidence in math once I saw that you could apply it to the piano. And so I'm surrounded by some really great professors at Morehouse that believed in this crazy idea. I was like, well, if I'm this good at the piano, I got to be good at math. So I majored in math and then made what I wish I would have had as a kid. Just something creative to connect the dots. Because as long as I've been, as long as I've had an issue with math, it made no sense. I should have said all that piano that you're doing, don't you know that that's math? And I would have been healed a long time ago. Man, I need to get with you. You got me brainstorming over here, bruh.   So it's crazy, right? So I've made this for kids, adults like it, because it's an easy way to play the piano without the sheet music and the theory. So they're just as excited. How about we come up with one when you get it wrong and you get roasted?  You just get roasted by your favorite comedian. You take the quiz and you fail. That's part of learning, though. That's part of school.    That's part of school. Yeah, I know. That's the important part of school. I'm telling you, these kids want to be entertainers, too. You better get your math right, James. I know you. Man, we got to come over to the program.  It started off with bringing these into the classroom and then we made the app.  Are you currently a teacher? I've been an official teacher. I started off at the Boys and Girls Club doing this. Okay. You know, just going in and trying it out and, you know, because I actually, like, I wasn't thinking about teaching at all because not to be funny, but I thought teachers didn't, teachers don't make much money. Don't say that. Well, it's the truth.  No, it's not me. I'm not deterring this. We know that, but you can't just say it like that, though, because then they're going to be like, what I'm saying is it needs to, they need to help and improve that, you know? So I had to start in an after-school space, right? And it's for a number of reasons. Number one, there's less red tape in an after-school space. They're looking for anything that holds their attention. And, you know, when you think about it, we were kind of getting blocked a little bit going into school day because, you know, when you think about who creates curriculum, it's not anybody looks like me. Who is that? Who is that? We don't even know. Who made Common Core? I don't know. That's the stupidest math they ever had. It's awful. It's like slowing down. It's like they made up math.  Exactly.  And they're like, no. You got that core math in there? No. That is, because it's never real. No, no, no, we don't do that.  What would you say to some people who may be struggling with math, like, in real life? Like, you the genius with the math, like, talk to the people about this. You know it's an epidemic. Yeah, it's confidence, right? But it also requires the right teacher, right? So that's really where it starts. You know, if you have a bad teacher, it's over before it even begins, right? So for parents that have kids that may come home and complain about a teacher, you got to listen to that, because they're not making that up, right? Sometimes, especially if you have, most math teachers are foreign, you may not be able to understand. And you got to be able to take in what's being taught, right? So that's first. And then it's just, you know, using creative ways to, because here's the crazy part, right? Why it makes no sense to be bad at math, because we use math with everything. So my thing is, find how math connects to your passion. That's what I did. Right. Math connected to the piano that I played my entire life. Yeah, yeah. So that's how, so whether it's...   Everybody can subtract. Exactly. So make it real, right? Yeah. But that goes back to what we were saying. This is why a culturally responsive curriculum is needed, because I can't connect to what I'm learning if I've never experienced what it's trying to teach me, you know?  It's the truth. It's the truth, man. You got to believe whatever you're saying, bro. No, man. It's the truth.  Knowing. Knowing. You can. Algebra is no joke. We can. Look, you just got to find your favorite song, and that's it. Well, man, what can they find in the program? Yeah. So first you can find us in the App Store or on Google Play. It's called Make Music Count. It's called Make Music Count. It's free. It's absolutely free to download onto your phone, iPad, or tablet. You can find our books in the Village Retail Store in Pont City Market. You can also find our workbooks on walmart.com. And also my website, MakeMusicCount.com. So if you're a school district, please reach out to us. Your kids, especially in this pandemic, we need creative ways to battle the learning loss from the pandemic, right? This is the way you're going to be able to get the kids back into the classroom. So also... Blackboard JB. Oh, yeah. So I update this every week. So whatever's on the Billboard Top 100 is in here. Right. Whatever's on TikTok is in here. All right. Let me ask you this on some music stuff, though. Yeah. You know, like they say music has been dumbed down, right? Have you heard... As a musician, have you heard any of these new rap songs that are more complex than people are giving them, musically complex than people give it credit for? Yeah. So I'm a big fan of Chloe and Hallie's music. Their music, if you listen to it, it's really complex. It's really complex. And I appreciate that. And I mean, you got to have different types of music anyway, right? You got to reach different types of people. It's not... I wouldn't say it's dumbed down. Music isn't dumb at all, right? That's too powerful. That's just what the argument is. Yeah. I don't even understand why they say that.  Oh, I wanted to tell you something else about this music thing, right? So we found out that our app has created a space to market music where labels can't currently reach, which is a school day, right? So if you think about Spotify, Amazon Music, none of them can access the school day. That's what our app does. So we actually talked to labels and like Cartoon Networks about putting their content in here so that they can market it through learning. That's how we're going to make it. That's the content too. Hey, let's put it in there. Because now your content will be able to help kids get better at learning. That's the connect. That's what we bring to the table. It's marketing you need and connect to your content to help people learn. That's it. That's a dope concept, bro. I think you really got a really dope product right here. Thanks, man. We can do anything to help get it out there so people can know. Let's help our kids get this mad and get this music. Yeah, man. Now I appreciate it. I appreciate it. And I appreciate you coming through here too, Mr. Marcus Blackwell. Yeah, man. Oh, also follow me on social media. Twitter is at underscore, make music count. Instagram is at underscore, make music count. I've got a YouTube channel. If you just search make music count, we'll pop up. But yeah, you know. Who else on your team that's helping you make this possible? So, you know, I'm not a coder, so I've got a developer. What? No, you can't do everything. You can do math. You can code. No, you just had me believing in myself.   Come on, Mr. Marcus. You got to have a team. I believe in you. Thank you, thank you. You can do it. I know what I think I can. I know you could. However, I got a team that handles that right now. So, I got a team of developers. I've got some designers that help me with my websites and stuff. We're still kind of small. But we're looking to grow our team because I need more people to help me make more lessons. But I know a gang of teachers. You got to be fine with them drinking, though. When they're not at the school, they don't drink some wine. If the math is right. They grade it, man. But they just drink wine, though. They can make questions on their own and submit them. I don't, you know, that's on their own time. All right, man. I'm letting you know. I'm letting you know. Yeah, we're looking to help teachers, man. There's a way they can. Let's make that connection. Yeah, we're helping teachers make some more money, too. Because, you know, the pandemic really sucked for kids. But it's also got to help teachers, too. I've been trying to help a few teachers, man. They sent me the Amazon list. We bought a few teaching materials and stuff like that. Working with the Boys and Girls Club in my hometown. And I try to help as much as I can. That's awesome, man. When it comes to, you know, giving back. Because education is important. And like you said, you get that right teacher that can really reach you. Yeah, man. You can have a breakthrough. That's it. That's it. So, man, shout out to all the teachers out there. Yeah. Doing that thing. All the, not just teachers, the educators, the principals, the people who make sure the kids are safe and getting on the bus. The bus drivers, the lunch ladies, the everybody who got something to do with the educational process. Yeah. Marcus Blackwell, it's your first time over here in the trap with the black market. Let it be the last. No, I'd love to come back. Keep updating that list every week. I'm one of your star students. You saw me go from zero to a hero. On the spot. Where, Kat? Ring the bell. Oh, you want to hit? Kat, love the bell. You want to ring the bell? Ring the bell. Let them know the black market is open. Oh, for 50 bucks, I'm safe.  Let's take a picture, man. Awesome. Awesome. I gotta let them see me because I graduated. Took me no time.


Hello, and welcome to this episode of Quality of Life. I'm your host, Dave Augustine. Today we're gonna talk about oncology and how quality of life can be improved through treatments and advances they've made now in cancer research. Joining us today is Dr. Mark Batag, oncologist at Matthews Oncology. Thank you, welcome. And Tammany Augustine, a cancer survivor. Welcome. Thank you. Also joining us for the first time, we have a studio audience today from Lakeland College. They're a television history class who's here to observe, so welcome also. So I guess let's get into it. Dr. Mark, can you tell us what is cancer and why is it so hard to find a cure to it? Well, those are two separate questions. So I'm gonna start with the first one. So cancer is a single cell that was once a normal cell. So you weren't born with it. You had it all, it was a normal cell all your life and something flipped the switch and made that cell start to grow and grow and grow. So it's like a light switch has flipped and that cell is turned on. So if I cut my arm, those skin cells will heal up that cut but as soon as that cut is healed both cells stop dividing. Cancer cells have lost the ability to stop their biting, they're turned on. So you could have a cancer cell in your brain, your breast, your lung, it can start anywhere. So that's the definition of cancer. The second part that is as far as trying to find cancer and why is it so hard to treat. So finding cancer can be difficult depending on where it starts. So the symptoms for cancer differ depending on where it starts. So if you have a spot in your lung, you may have a cough, you may be coughing up blood, you may have pain, whereas if you have a spot somewhere else, for example, a colon cancer, you don't always get abdominal pain, you may have bleeding from the stool or something along those lines. Okay. You kind of touched it on already but how many different forms of cancer are there that we know of today? That's in a nutshell. So as many different cells as you have, that's how many different types you have. For example, the most common cancer in women is breast cancer. Even in breast cancer, there are multiple different types of breast cancer. There's multiple different types of lung cancer. So there's literally hundreds of different types of cancer. And we treat cancer differently depending on where it starts. So not all lung cancers are treated the same. And so when people come in and they think they may get chemotherapy for a particular type of tumor, there's not a generic chemo. Things are targeted specifically for whatever type they have. Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong, but just one observation that I've made is in the past, because we haven't done a lot of research or a lot of the cancers treated the same. So it was kind of a hit or miss because we didn't know of all the different types. And now through our research, we're actually getting ahead of the game. So that's a great question. So if we go back, I came out of my training in 1995, almost all the drugs I use now today are different than the drugs that were available then. We just had a handful of drugs then. So we recycled a lot of the same chemo drugs at that time. Things have kind of exploded. In fact, the field of oncology has probably changed the most of any field in medicine over the last 20 years. And we can get into some of the different treatments and why they're so different now than in years gone by. But right now the big focus is on targeted therapy. We're looking at molecular changes in the cancer cells and even the genes of the cancer and targeting specific agents to those genes. So for example, years ago we would treat all lung cancers the same and everybody would get cisplatinum and VP16 or something along those lines. Now when somebody comes in with lung cancer, we check for specific genes, RRM1. We also check for ERCC1 and a whole bunch of other genes. So if you have this gene, you cannot get this treatment because it won't work. But if you have this gene, you can. And with the old treatments, the likelihood that we would have a response in lung cancer was about 15%. In fact, they had debates over whether it was even ethical to treat people for lung cancer because the response rate was so low. Now with the targeted therapy, it's probably close to 70% response rates. That's excellent progress. It's a couple of long way. Okay. Tammany, you are a cancer survivor. Could you tell a little bit about the types of cancers that you've encountered? Okay. I was first diagnosed with breast cancer in January of 2006. It was a very aggressive cancer. It was found in less than two months after I found a lump in my breast. It had grown to stage 3B, which is a very serious stage. While I was in treatment for breast cancer, I found out I had colorectal cancer the following January. So I've basically been in treatment for just the breast cancer. They were able to get the colon cancer with just surgery. So I was fortunate there. And I completed my treatment with Dr. Mark probably about four, five years ago. Still see him on a routine basis, but I outlived my life expectancy. I wasn't expect to make it, but maybe five years. So I say I'm officially three years old because I made it three years past my expiration date. Ex expiration date, okay. Did you encounter any pre-symptoms or was it detectable or did it just pop right out? Well, for me, I still do regular breast exam. I do them every month on the date of my birthday, which is the 12th. I'd had a mammogram done the last week in November. There was no thing there. I did my breast exam on the 12th of December and detected something about the size of a pinhead. By the end of December, what had been the size of a pinhead was probably about the size of a quarter. So if you think from the 12th of December to the end of December, he had grown that much. By the time I had my biopsy the first week in January, it was in to see Dr. Mark on the second week in January, third week in January rather, it had already almost become a visible appendage on my breast. It almost looked like I had a third breast growing. So mine was very aggressive and it came out of nowhere. Okay, Dr. Mark, when you first saw Tammany, what was your initial reaction or response to get treatment started or diagnosis? Well, the first thing we like to do when people come in is we have to stage and find out how far as the cancer spread. So for most cancers, we stage in the four stages. Stage one is usually local. Stage two is a little bit bigger. Stage three often goes to lymph nodes and stage four spreads to other parts of the body. And so the staging tells us how far it is spread and then based on that, we need to do a biopsy and then we plan our treatment accordingly. So because Sam's was growing so fast, we wanted to get moving extra quickly. If I remember correctly, you told me you could literally feel it growing day by day. Oh, you could. You could watch it. You could see it. So we started right away. I mean, there wasn't much time between when I initially saw you and when... It was a week, one week exactly from my date that I saw you until my first treatment. Yeah, I had my PET scan. I had a port implanted and had my treatment all within one week. That is aggressive and you're still here today. So this is a positive turnout. Oh yeah, it was a tough road. I will admit that, but I am happy to say that so far we're doing very well. Excellent. You've already been talking about treatments of cancer. What are the basic ways to treat cancer?  How do you know which one to use or go after or how does each of those types or others affect cancer? That's a good question. So in the old days you'd go to school for a long time and you'd have experience rotating through all the different subspecialties. And nowadays things are a little bit easier. There's something called NCCN guidelines and anybody can go on the guidelines and look up the particular guidelines for a particular cancer. And there are experts that get together multiple times a year, go through all the world's literature for that particular cancer, and they come up with specific guidelines for stage one, two, three, four, whatever the cancer is. The guidelines can't possibly encompass every single clinical scenario that comes up. And so we use our knowledge our ability to see and judge what the clinical behavior of the tumor is and then we pick a treatment. So often surgery is employed depending on where it is. If you can remove a tumor, that's the best. And then sometimes chemotherapy is given either before the surgery to try to shrink it down to make the surgery easier or after the surgery in case there's microscopic disease.  Before the surgeon ever takes a scalpel to cut some of those tumor cells can grow into a blood vessel and start floating around in the blood. And since we don't have a blood test or a CAT scan, MRI PET scan that can detect microscopic disease, depending on the risk factors for recurrence will often give chemo. And that's why in Sam's instance because of the size of the tumor and how fast it was growing, we did the chemotherapy. Okay. With, you had mentioned about the different diagnostic types to detect.  Yeah, that's kind of a complicated question. So the best way to detect breast cancer believe it or not is MRI, but MRIs are expensive. And if you were to do MRIs on everybody in the United States you're gonna spend a lot of money. So the cheapest way to screen mass amounts of population is with mammograms, which are a good screening tool. They're not perfect. They miss about 10% of breast cancers. Physical exams are cheap. They cost nothing. So every woman should do a physical exam. So why do we use MRIs? Why do we use CAT scans? So CAT scans are really good from the chin to the knees looking for intraabdominal spread of cancer. So if we know somebody has a cancer we'll often do a CAT scan to see how far as it's spread. MRIs are really good for a brain. You can see the inside of the brain far better with an MRI than you can with a CAT scan. You can see the spine better and you can image joints fairly well. The newest modality is actually a PET scan.  And there's a radioactive tag on the glucose. So wherever that glucose congregates lights up bright on the scan. So oftentimes when people are first diagnosed today they often will get a PET scan. And then sometimes we'll do an MRI of the brain to scan and see if the cancer is there depending on symptoms. Okay. Thanks for clarifying that. I've always wondered about that. Yeah. Thank you. Now to more methods of improvements or of the treatments over the years. Could you basically go into the research that's been done and how cancer treatment has improved over the years? Sure. So some of the first treatments that we had were mustard or nitrogen mustard and World War I they had nitrogen mustard that they threw in the trenches. So that was kind of some of the first chemicals that we had. One of the first big breakthroughs was a drug called cisplatinum. And that was the drug that Lance Armstrong got that cured him of his testicular cancer. Now today there's probably 10 to 15 drugs approved every year for cancer medicine. There was just one approved in February for chronic lymphocytic leukemia that will probably be a game changer for that particular disease. So the older chemo drugs from the 1970s and 80s affected the DNA of the cancer cell. So there's the double helix and as it pulls apart there are little ribosomes that zip along the side and make another strand and it affects the replicating of the cell. Some of the newer ways that cancer treatments are going, they're going after the blood supply to the tumor. And some of the most recent ones are going after particular enzymes in the cancer cell. So a lot of different research, even radiation is different. They're looking at different modalities to treat with really focused beams. The typical way we used to treat with radiation is they get radiation every day, Monday through Friday for several weeks. Now they're looking at focused treatments, high doses with a very few treatments. So even that's changing. Okay. You also went through radiation. Yes, I did. And I did as well. So quite a bit of extensive ozip for like 30 days straight. 33 sessions of radiation. I went at least three days a week, some weeks I went four days a week. Yeah. Now one of your treatments that was used was Herceptin afterwards. Yes. And that was at the time kind of state of the art. Is that still used or is that pretty much obsolete and been replaced already? No, that's still used a lot. About a third of women with breast cancer have a protein on their surface called Hertunu. And if you have that, you have a more aggressive breast cancer. The good thing about it, such as in Sam's case, is there's this molecule or this drug that specifically targets that protein. And people who get that drug have a much improved cure rate over those that don't get that drug that have that protein. So there are some newer drugs now that have been added on top of Herceptin so that if you were diagnosed today, it may be changed just a little bit. Sure. Yeah. Excellent. With the whole subject of cancer, it is definitely a different type of medical condition than I have got a cold or a broken arm because this can be on a life terminating event. Excuse me. So I would imagine to maintain quality of life or to help with that, there's other types of treatments or services that oncologists have to go through because there's probably a mental as well as physical health that can contribute to anything. Could you go through like some of those different types that you go through? So we have a cancer liaison physician or a physician at our office and it's a person who's been through cancer and he leads support groups. But I think one of the biggest things that help people get through is their mental attitude and their friends. And I have to take a break here and just say, Sam did not have an easy time going through. And right when she was going through, she had a double whammy with the colon cancer. And then she's had several ups and downs that were not cancer related even afterwards. I have to say, you have probably had the hardest time of just about anybody I've had in the last 10 to 15 years. But you know what? Despite all the ups and downs, she's always been positive and I wish I could take your spirit and infuse it to some of my other patients. And I mean that sincerely because that willing spirit and that drive to not give up is huge. I'm always amazed at two groups. The groups that should do well that don't and they just give up, but they're Sam's group. The group that shouldn't do well that does. And I'm a firm believer that that mental attitude is everything. You have a lot to teach a lot of people. But, and I think you only get some of that toughness when you go through some tough times in your life.  Well, I'm a breakfast for supper person so I don't do it in the morning. But yes, but I will admit that I did have a tough row of it and I did spend over a year seeing a psychologist. I mean, I had to have help. Well, that's not unusual.  You know, a lot of people need help. Some need antipressants just for a small period of time to get through. Some people see counselors. A lot of people find relief and exercise, you know just a release of some sort to get some of the energy and anxiety out. And so everybody finds their way differently. The support groups are huge for some people. They are life changing. So whatever works. Sam, could you go in a little bit more detail as far as what your ups and downs were?  Well, it was, mine has been rather complicated. I've had a number of complications from it.  Once my treatments were completed I developed some heart issues and I've had not one but two open heart surgeries all within the same year. There was an issue with my first open heart surgery where they had to go in and repeat the same procedure less than five months later. Then the following year when I was well enough to go ahead and I was of the mental state where I felt like I could have my breast reconstruction done during that surgery I had a complication where I had a stroke during my surgery that wasn't discovered until virtually two days later. So I've had to deal with that. I didn't have typical symptoms with the stroke. I've been left with a pain syndrome because of the area of my brain that was damaged where basically you can draw a line down my body down the center and on the right side of my body I have pain 24-7. It never goes away. I do wear a narcotic pain patch to eliminate some of the pain. With that I'm able to get it from a 10 down to about a seven. I use medication techniques to deal with that as well as there are days when I'll admit I just pray. No, the other thing that you may have left out that a lot of people struggle with is in the midst of all of this people are dealing with insurance issues and I know at one time we were having problems with your insurance company and the last thing that people wanna do is have money problems when they're going through and wondering how am I gonna buy groceries? How am I gonna do all this? And that's becoming more and more of a problem now than it ever has and that causes a great deal of anxiety.  Because if you're gone you don't want them to be left with all of the bills and everything from where you were sick. Right, but your other point too is I think prayer is a huge component. I mean I think sometimes spirituality and prayer will give a calmness in your life and a settering about what's truly important in life and sometimes we get so wrapped up in our day to day lives and we forget and something like this suddenly crystallizes what's really important in life. So I think that's huge. It is, it is and I know that I had people praying for me all over the country. I had family members that put me on their prayer lists at their church and when I would get a letter from that church saying that they had prayed for me on Sunday it was invigorating, it made me feel better. Sometimes I don't think you realize how many lives you touch until something like this happens. Can you realize how many people care about you and come out of the woodwork to help? Oh sure, you know and people tell me all the time that they hope that they have the grace to accept an illness the way that I did because I never gave up. Because I remember when you told me I had colon cancer I was comforting you. Yeah that was not a good time. That follows right into my next question. How does the patient-doctor relationship differ in these cases versus you know like a regular MD where I'll take two aspirin and call me in the morning so to speak. How does this relationship differ? My brother's an ear, nose, and throat doc in the Appleton and I tease him a lot but you know he sees people he takes their tonsils out and away they go. We kinda have a long journey that cancer docs and we get to know people really well we get to know their families and it's sometimes it's a happy ending like Sam's but sometimes it's not a happy ending and so you get to know them quite well and you see them that they're ups and they're downs so you get to be very close to them. I tell people it's like going into battle and you know you feel exhausted at the end of the fight but I have the greatest job in the world. I get to help people every day.  Sam is a cancer survivor. Do you declare her cancer free or does anyone ever declare cancer free once they have it? So for most patients ask me when they're diagnosed when am I cured and so there's a word cure and then there's a word remission. So for many cancers we believe that they're cured when they're alive five years after they've been diagnosed colon cancer lung cancer a lot of cancers. There are some cancers that can recur even 10 or 15 years later.  I had one lady that recurred 40 years after her original surgery and we know it was the same tumor because it's staying the same as her original. That's unusual. Melanoma, skin cancer can recur a long time later. I have a lady right now with kidney cancer who it's recurred well over two decades after the original tumor. But for most other cancers we consider five years and you're cured. What about between zero and five? We consider you in remission if there's no evidence. So I tell people it's like putting together pieces in a puzzle. Your symptoms are important, your blood work is important and the scans are important. If there's no evidence of cancer then we consider you in remission. Basically it's about time to wrap up. Is there any other comments that either of you would like to make before we do? I just know for anybody who gets cancer if you have that fighting spirit, don't give up. There's always hope. Dr. Mark? I think Sam said it well and I think if you have a wonderful family and support and faith, I think that can see you through most anything. Don't ever be afraid to get another opinion. Thank you both for being on the show. On behalf of Quality of Life, I'd like to thank Dr. Mark Teg from Matthews and College, Tammy Augustine, cancer survivor. And yes, there is no coincidence that we have the last name that we are husband and wife, so as far as that goes. And I'd like to thank our studio audience from Lakeland College. If there's any questions you have or other episodes you'd like to see, you can contact us through our WSCS website, which is www.wscsscheboygan.com. Again, for Quality of Life, I'm Dave Augustine. Thank you for watching.


You did it's Corbin. I have stuff on me now. It's probably dog hair and And today yes, it has begun it has begun We are starting the a poo trilogy. We watched the first one which is Panther Pan, how do you pronounce that last part pan shelly? Well, it's not panther to start off with. Oh, yeah, it's not Potter No pun, shawly. Sure. Sure. How do you pronounce it? Oh Pothr puncher. See I was right But yes, we started with that one and how it's gonna be which is smart for us to do It's not like do whom three yeah first. We shouldn't start with now We're starting with the first one first for change, but for this Series as you're gonna see right now. It's gonna be called the a poo trilogy review We're just gonna watch the first one review it Then we'll go out to check on review it and but we're gonna put it all in one video So it'll be probably a little longer than the price of one. It's gonna be a 90 minute video I'm predicting each of these is going to be a Different day, so just so you're aware But yes the first one Obviously directed by do you visit Ray or I ever depends on how you want to pronounce it How would you like to pronounce it right right at Satya did right and composed by Ravi Shankar? Yep, I didn't realize that actually no no when yeah, like when we did the trailer when we were talking about it I didn't realize he was the one that oh, yeah Well, I didn't either until his name popped up in the credits at the start and I was like yeah wow That's what I said. Yeah. Oh, oh, that's exciting But yes, so it just read the quicks and impoverished priest Harihari Dreaming of a better life for himself and his family leaves his world Bengal village in search of work He's a priest that's that's it. I guess I guess I was I didn't associate scholar with priest No, he was absolutely. Yes. Yes. Oh, I thought he was like a School he was he was both. I was both. He was both a scholar and he was also a priest Gotcha, I don't pick up on the priest part. But yes, so they this is such it rise first first directorial debut ever Impressive to say the to say the very least Do you want to say any of the the actress names? I because I'm sure touch those with the temple Well, the majority of them are going to be Bengali last names. That's for sure Kaurna Banerjee Karuna Banerjee Chunibali Devi Uma Das Gupta Subra Banerjee Runky Banerjee Ribba Devi and I think those are all the main ones. Yeah a Parnadevi Tulsi Chakraborty Haran Banerjee Rampada Das. Yeah, I think those are all the main ones. Oh, and there's a Mukherjee down there Is that her name? Yep, Banoi Mukherjee. They're all related They're all Bengali So yes, the the G's were the the film Man This Because the only other thing we've seen of him is to to This I think I can speak for both of this man can say so much with this is what? 85% silent Right. Yeah, this entire thing is mostly 85% silent. Yep and Very impressive Yeah, just say the very least Yeah, what you want to go. Yeah, I Obviously Indrani know I was watching it and wanted to talk to me the minute I was done watching it Which I do with any of the films anyway, and but this one had a particular obvious place in the heart and That was one of the first things I said among many things was that I don't know I've ever seen a director same more saying so little and just as good as film directing gets because You want to show not say in in film you don't get to do that as often on stage but I'm Several takeaways that that he I've never seen a director say more was saying so little and He was to my view just Way ahead of his time cinematically He did some things with shots that I didn't even know you could do in 1955 Mm-hmm. He had mastery of some things utilizing black and white and lighting That were obviously designed by him to take that shot that reminded me of the technical brilliance. We've applauded all the time with Banzali yet It was almost I was talking about this one part with Indrani There's that moment where he's got the shot of the the twig in the water and The firefly lands on it facing camera So it was like almost like God was partnering with him No, I wonder how long he stayed there. I do too but I got that shot But there were so many moments like that Where lots of flies landing on people's face at perfect moments. Yes. I don't know how you did that I know but And I will have with the more we talk about this I'm going to have an Definitive bias that's coming from the fact that I have this connection to Bengal we are over. Yeah, and even even though this doesn't take place in Calcutta There was a lot about this that reminded me of when I was in Calcutta. So This setting is like as much as I can that bias aside This was for me. Yeah, I had high expectations going in after having heard so much about him and having seen two But I felt this was just Extraordinary. Yeah, I think one of the things that was so impressive about it is that it felt like a documentary Mm-hmm like how he got these actors to just it seems like you just went to a village and kind of filmed people Right, which is impressive Especially for like the amount we've seen from Indian cinema, especially older where a lot of it's over dramatic, right? And and stuff like that and that was a style that they put in into the film. Yeah To be 1955 and have some of the most natural acting I've ever seen is is very impressive it is Somewhat mind-boggling when you consider a streetcar named desire had come out four years prior mm-hmm So not all cinema in Hollywood was there yet But James Dean was there doing it and there were some other films that were getting there But He these are a lot of the folks he used and not just his actors, but his crew were amateur So are any of them actual actors or yeah The most the most prominent one to my knowledge is and I won't remember her name right off the top of my head is the his mom mm-hmm his mom is is a Was at the time my understanding a had actually done some acting and in fact was Really didn't want to take on the role at first But she particularly wasn't fond of the idea of portraying an impoverished woman in that position I've seen a very very small thing that andrani showed me about her. We're talking about that was very very small clip and but like The majority of it. Can we just talk about auntie? Mm-hmm You you can't that woman and Not only that woman portraying that lady who clearly was not Shape-shifting she she wasn't didn't make up. I don't think she was putting on the bento for posture That was that woman and her eyes and her face and her toothlessness. That was that lady and Totally I believed like you said that I was a fly on the wall watching this family in this village and I believe that those little kids were brother and sister Mm-hmm. Ah, yeah, my favorite actress is probably the the main actress I I thought it was such a complex character for mom. Yeah for 1955. Yeah To have this woman who Probably wanted to do a lot more and be in a jungle village. Yeah But and then to like her husband's going off But she has to stay back and now she's like she has no money and so she's doing the same things every day It's getting monotonous and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, and then Unthinkable happens and she loses One of the two things she cares about now more than anything else that she has left, right and so it's like it's Yeah, it's it's so it was such a complex character for being 1955 and a woman and a woman. Yeah 1955 who basically I mean I know it's the Apu trilogy But this is she's this is basically this story is Mostly her is the main lead. Mm-hmm We are seeing this for the majority of the time through Apu's eyes and there's so much I want to say about that but and I also want to talk about the here's here's a fun word for those of you who've pointed it out with me juxtaposition of The the mom and the auntie So where do you want to go first? What what path do we want to go down for us? Want to talk about the perspective that Satya's ride gives to us through the kid and some of the symbolism in there. Okay? first of all, I thought he did a brilliant job of tackling Things that are universal and timeless because this is a film that's taking place in Bengal in 1955 and black and white with a culture that we would be unfamiliar with what we're more familiar with and Makes it accessible to anybody because he's dealing with stuff. That's universal Everything from the games that the kids are playing to the bullying that's happening with the kids to what the people what the neighbors keeping up with the Joneses per se and then the Connection point when he finally brings up who and the sister to a place where they see the power lines and the train and the machinization of Society compared to the organic connected to life He just again says like he did with to he says a lot by saying Yeah, nothing and just showing you and what really helped was probably one of my favorite parts of the film was Ravi Shankar's hit the score the score absolutely absolutely so simple Mm-hmm, but so beautiful so beautiful and it's so perfect emotionally It made you feel like this is just life happening correct And that's what I think was his intent was like when they were walking down the music would start. Yeah, it's just life it's tell it The score would be one of those few because not all scores can do this it It Transports you mm-hmm. I felt and you forget the score Though you're aware of the score it is it you I remember there were points where I realized Midway into whatever the background music was that the background music was there because I was so engrossed in what was going on that the score was like just as Present as the the sky and the trees and the ground and so when it was there It just felt so natural for it to be there and was taking me to a place Emotionally like I remember what he started to do with the score when the dad finds out about the daughter when he gets back and when they're playing and it just and The simplicity of the instrumentation what he did like the simplicity of their life It's just really really crazy what he did was like a certain moments that we've seen in other films that people will use Certain scores to heighten emotion Mm-hmm. He didn't do that all the time and we never used it in those that kind of way He kind of did what I love is just he stayed on the actor Yeah for a long time and just let that that marinate for you just let it be Which is my favorite part. I don't I don't need music all the time to Get to where the performance should be getting me So I really enjoyed that aspect of what he did. It's just he's so impressive for Is this whole thing about just a pooh's life? Yes, I think he said a pooh trilogy So it's probably the next one's gonna say when he's teenager I don't know. I do know that it does cover him through the years But I don't know the specificity of each other films and what it represents and let's just his His mastery of framing some some shots and the usage of black and white for me the quintessential master of black and white that I've seen Is Alfred Hitchcock. Yeah, and there were hitch cocky and things Combined that with Sanjay Lee Levansali with the use of light there and there was one shot Well, first of all, there were a couple shots the shot where a pooh looks into the Jar and the cameras in the jar So how many times is that the perspective and breaking that? Inside of something inside the that where they're cooking the math inside of the lunchbox inside of something Well, we have the technology and the cameras and the devices that we just drop something in there and do it real quick That wasn't an easy shot to do back there. Yeah and frame it that way another shot I don't know how he did in 1955 It's a shot where the husband is laying in bed And the wife is back in the other room either cooking or finishing something up and they're talking to one another Oh, yeah, you know what I'm talking about and the shot has both of them in focus How did he do that in 1955? Lighting probably I guess. Yeah, but the lens has to have a frame of reference to center on back then to focus So maybe that's just my ignorance of what was capable technologically at the time But I don't recall ever seeing anything from that era that captures a dual focus shot When two characters are that far away from each other maybe one is in the foreground and one is in the back It was a optical illusion. Maybe they weren't actually very far from it may have been But whatever it was and the way he had it lit and that the I could tell he had it's one of my favorite Here's the thing about Sanjay Lila Bansali is that he will get a shot that kind of if there's a flaw to it He'll remove you from the story and you'll you'll just like I did that with one of his films And I stopped it and I went look at that shot Right as that without me Leaving the story in the film and the emotional connectivity. I just I don't want to I'm looking at some of the shots and thinking The amount of time he took to put that shot together or was this just again divine providence going There you go, mr. Director. Mm-hmm, you know just Beautiful and did you catch? There are a lot of obviously Messages within the film, but one of my favorite in the film was the juxtaposition of the aunt and the mom and how the mom the perspective of both That the mom was going through a lot of really difficult things, but her focus was on the difficult things Yeah, she was consistently in a negative headspace consistently pessimistic consistently scared Mm-hmm, and I remember the stark contrast of the one evening where it's coming to an end and she is depressed and Auntie who's half or not fully blind practically bent over Toothless has gone through a lot of pain and sorrow for her whole life I'm sure probably widowed. Yeah, she's seen probably a lot more pain and suffering than this young woman But she's singing hymns at the end of the day Mm-hmm and seemed to be of the two the one who was consistently in an upbeat positive She was the more childlike connecting with the kids. I found that to be an extremely interesting perspective But a presentation of the power of perspective and mindset irrespective of what your circumstances are Because they were both in similar circumstances But one was choosing to be happy and the other one was choosing to look at the things that were Granted, how could you not? But I found that to be a real power. Yeah, it was such an like I said complex story and such a Be you don't anticipate it being so sad, right? Like it's like I did was like. Oh, we're going here. Okay. Oh, oh, I thought the kid was gonna get better And I was like, oh, yeah, okay like that. Yeah, I did a lot And then I thought it was I was wondering what he was gonna do with the bracelet at the end Mm-hmm, and then he just ended up throwing it in there and I was like Interesting, I thought that was very I was like, oh, she left she left behind She's helping the family and then he was like, I don't I don't I couldn't figure out exactly what that meant for the kid Which I like well, I think you couldn't even have a lot of things It could mean a lot of things what I took that to mean. Well, first of all, she did steal it. Yeah show. She did. Yeah but her mom At that point didn't know if she had or had she probably assumed that she had and I saw that as that little guy wanting still Wanting to protect his sister Not wanting. Yeah, not this is a good emotional not wanting her to get in trouble even though. She's dead. Yeah. Yeah, yeah that was Also, my my dad came out when she started to grab the little girl accusing her of the Stealing the bracelet. I was like, I would have punched you square in the eye I don't care if she did steal it, right, right? We can touch my kid.  Yeah, I saw it and there were there were things that I think I think An American audience completely unaware of India You would have to be a lover of cinema Yeah, and even know some things about Senna like neo realism and which obviously is an inspiration Italian films of that era were very very Which I know right was influenced by we're very focused as was he realism was what mattered most Which again, you mentioned this the start was very very different than what you see and have seen for years coming out of a lot of Bollywood films it isn't about that it's about the entertainment value and if anything this guy is cinema purist in the terms of art form and Realism the kind of guy who will just let it take go on and on and on and on There were and there were moments in this that boggled my mind because like he said We're just in 1955 film has just started to begin to see realism especially coming out of actors and There were moments where any other even experienced actors who who who really haven't been trained Would have something occur and like break character and stop because clearly we can't keep filming because a fly flew on my face Or I there's a moment where the mom is walking and her her sorry. I think it is gets caught on a basket and Rather than the actress say oh wait hold on. I'm stuck and we have to cut She just stays in character as the mom and gets aggravated that her dress her sorry That's caught on the basket realism started basically with Marlon Brando and in that era of actor four years ago in American film Yeah Compared to this one. Yeah, and like it was in I just watched one spawn time in Hollywood. There was a moment in it where Leo said He said with all the stuff on me, how are they gonna know it's me So that that's understanding about what that time was right? He came from the cowboy era We basically just people came to see him right like the hero some people do like like Salman Khan or Shahrukh Khan or people go to see him not saying those are those type of actors, but Like no director wanted them to disappear right and people not see him and that's what it transformed to do But that's what this was which is why it was so impressive that in 1955 This film Was just like you're watching a documentary Very much like a documentary like the entire time.  No these guys seem like actors Which is why it's hard to judge them as actors because it just they don't seem like they're acting Right, which is what you strive to right is great and I was waiting for that from kids and especially from the kids Just very real very natural. I believe they lived in this village I was very thankful for what I felt was a believable response when the dad found out that his daughter was dead And when the mom gets there and all he does is ask where she is and she's been trying to compose herself a totally incredibly believable which speaks Volumes about Satya Jit Rai's capacity to communicate what he's wanting to get and keep people feeling natural and comfortable on a set Especially kids. It's really hard to get that out of out of kids And and then yeah, I have the definitive bias there were points of this for me that were very very Deeply personal and the fact that they're just speaking Bengali and whenever I'm talking to Indrani She will be off the phone and we should be talking to her mom or a family member in Bengal And when I was there I hear Bengali even seeing kittens and dogs on the street Hearing the fact of the names and certain aspects of it that were just embedded DNA wise for me now, but this This like to is one of the best films I've ever seen and to me it is for 1955 on many levels way ahead of its time, you know what this reminded me of hmm, and I actually showed the movie immediately I said To Indrani you may guys you guys may not know this film I said if Satya Jit Rai was alive and making films today, he'd make a film like the Florida Project mmm And I watched it with her and she completely agreed because the Florida Project feels like a documentary. You're just sitting there in many moments There's just kids on screen for like two three minutes doing nothing. Yep, and there's no score Very little score is used. Yeah, and when it's used it's powerful And you're just flying along with these people until something happens So I just I don't think filmmaking can get much better Yeah, it's it was very impressive. I'm very interested to see what's going to what direction he's going next Yeah, we're jumping in time Are we gonna because we know nothing about what this series is outside of what we've seen so far correct So either I don't know if it's gonna start immediately from Where left off then going to the city, right? Is that where they're starting or they're gonna jump a few years, right? I don't know but I'm looking forward to it and you will see it in just just a few seconds We'll watch us change our clothes. Oh movie magic. How did we do it? Wow? We're in the future It's bleak As it is for a poo But yes, so now we are on to the second of the apu trilogy I don't know how to pronounce that so you Aporegito. Aporegito. It's actually oporegito. Like is it Italian? It sounds Italian. The opu trilogy In Bengali, okay, it's true like Andrani has a friend the name is spelled A-R-P-A But his name is pronounced Opal Opal. Yeah, she said there's a joke that Bengalis don't say Apple. They say Opal. Do they really? No, they don't The A sound is is like it's the opu trilogy. Anyways, yeah, we are on to the second one You saw the first one just seconds ago. It feels like it was just yesterday, doesn't it? It wasn't it wasn't But this one is the following following his father's death a boy lead. I'm glad we didn't read the description Wow, is that what it says?  Great job.  Oh, yeah Really? Yeah, I had much different feelings about the people in this one Really, I didn't the first one. Oh, I'm interested. Yeah Do tell do tell. Yeah, but I still really enjoyed the film. I think it's still like I Think that's actually impressive because I thought it was gonna be more more of a similar type feel Mm-hmm. He went a completely different direction in terms of the feeling I have towards his characters like I Hate a poo.  I mean sister not his father actually his father. I'm still not convinced he wasn't poisoned Really, I don't know how he died. Honestly. We thought that it was one of the fever He got very sick. I just randomly though I we thought it was actually one of the two guys that wanted to marry his wife And so that's where I really story was going for a little bit So I think his husband was poisoned. No, I think he got malaria from somebody else But anyways, that's what I want to make okay the um, the Yeah, I'm not a fan of him. We could talk about him more. Okay, but I Real so sorry for opal. I I don't I Feel sorry for his mother. I feel sorry for his mom, too, but I feel even more sorry for opal. I'm just How anyways anyways, but yes I was actually really impressed with such as rye and him making a different feel of it I enjoyed that part and I I mean what sense I enjoyed the like I I felt like a more happy go lucky and like a more hopeful Towards the end toward in the first one and then so I felt more hopeful at the end of the other It's like for the whole film as a whole and I was like, okay Maybe they're gonna go on life and live happier lives, but then just keep just kept bringing it down And keep going down like obviously it starts off and they're they're struggling with money and all that kind of stuff but then the father dies and then the And then the the he goes off to college and the mother's clinically depressed And then he doesn't come home because he's an asshole and then he his mother dies and then He went off to school Which is fine, but don't do that to your mother But I enjoyed that aspect the fact that he didn't just go with the same direction I think he went in a completely different direction. Yeah, you know, well, he's went thematically I felt like in a different direction. What did you think about the overall tone? Do you felt the tone was a big shift to I think it was more of a No, not not in terms of like I felt like a similar film right I was gonna say that it's not the same film continuing or it felt very tonally different Oh, no, no, it still felt like the same content. That's not what I mean I mean, it just in terms of like the the sub yeah, it just it keeps going down And that's why I'm wondering what the third one's gonna be about them like is anybody gonna live It's like what the end of Game of Thrones should have been everybody should have died That's what the appoo trilogy is But you know, I really enjoyed I thought the the music was really really good I thought they I think what's what's the actress's name put the mother? Oh What is her name? Kanubaner Banerjee man. She is talented. I would like to see more of her. Yeah, I Immediately one of the first things I said obviously I was talking to and Johnny after watching this and said that woman I am I am so intrigued by her her face is so She she personifies What rye does as a director in that they both say so much by saying so little mm-hmm, and she actually has a she has a book I want to I want to get and read I looked on Amazon. It's not there, but it's about her just about her life It's called an actress in her time It's about herself because while this was her first film that you see listed on IMDb She has a very extensive resume in Bengali film and theater interesting. Yeah, that's awesome So I couldn't find it on Amazon But but and Ronnie said that she'll take me to a bookstore in Calcutta when I'm there to buy the book Which makes me happy. I want to buy it there. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, so I yeah I absolutely yeah, I think she she stole the show in terms of the enacting in this one. She just Like one of the many reasons I was sad that she died because I didn't want that actress to leave the trilogy Yeah, that's one of the things like I hope we're not just left with a poo. I don't like him Wow, I supremely loved a poo in the first one He's such a sweet kid Even though what did he do that was so bad. What did you watch what he did to his mother? What did he what did he do to his mother? He was he She was alone the entire like for months and months and all she wanted to do was talk to her kid And just sit there's pretending he was sleeping just like yeah, whatever.  No, she had an erection with no Did you not watch that whole scene this whole scene was him just and her trying to talk at him Did you not see him go to the train and not get on the train? Specifically so that he could be there for his mom You missed that he would act he was at the place. He wasn't being with his mother He purposefully missed the train and what did he do later? He purposely didn't go on a train He said no, I don't have a break. He did have a break.  Oh, okay. He did Think about it. Why did his sister get the what a pneumonia or whatever she got because he wanted to see the train and Then she got what flew or whatever it is the Pneumonia or whatever. Yeah, not a fan of a poo right now He's gonna have to do a lot to redeem himself. I enjoyed the film a lot I But I just like I enjoy Harry Potter, but I can hate that boy. I know you do.  You're saying he didn't do anything wrong Nothing malicious. Oh my It is nothing to tell your mother that you don't have a break when you actually do have a break and she's alone It's not like she has a husband another kid friends shouldn't have anything true and this is a young boy who is trying to Pursue that the dreams he has for his life and and leave the nest I've no issues with that and he had a couple days to spend with his mother Now you're not saying I I will never tell a kid to stay home with his parents when it when he could pursue his dream But when she's asking you to come home for a few days because she's alone and you don't and you say that you don't have a break You're a dick. That's what I'm saying and responsible for her death. Yeah, honey. I got just like Harry is for his parents But there's a lot Harry's probably responsible for the death of everyone who dies in the Harry Potter film That's actually true. Do you want to have debate about cuz I can have a debate about that right now? I Don't think you know enough about the Harry Potter universe. He even admits it. Okay. It is You can't just go Sure, I can you know you can't I'm just not going down an under-hundam road with you Oh, well Harry Potter if you want to have a debate about that I can have a debate about that No, I just astonished that you don't feel sorry for opu. No, I feel sorry for his mother Wow I do I actually felt she wasn't as clinically depressed in this one as she was in the first one I felt like she had actually grown and come to terms with some things for herself where she she wasn't as Incapacitated by her depression. Oh, no, I thought she was made look I actually I thought it was actually beautiful what Ry did in terms of now She is basically the old woman that is in somebody else's very much kind of came almost full circle very much I thought it was a brilliant Kind of arc I guess you would call it for her She was annoyed with the person that she was but now she has become that person We're going and now she's a widow and she doesn't her kids aren't there Basically became that person that she was so annoyed with And but yeah, I she was insanely she did an amazing job. Mm-hmm. I felt for her In the entire time I thought she did a really good job and I thought the dad did a really good job, too And I did a limited amount of time if he was there I did too And I guess as before Ravi Shankar's music. I thought it was just a beautiful Addition to it. Yeah, I Right He there's some there's so many things that he did that Just groundbreaking he didn't have I Mean he did he had influences. I know cinematically from Italian neorealism So all all film directors have things that have informed their decisions and what they do it in their directing However, he was a ground. He was a maverick Yeah, and that he was doing things in directing that had not yet been achieved and We do now in films just its second nature for people to do some things And he didn't have the technology to do some things like there's some shots that he did where Opu is Opu is coming back and the shot establishes to the left and it comes across and that would be just a standard either Dolly shot or you've got the steady cams now where you can just wear a steak And we're no steady cams back then and if you needed to establish a dolly shot back then What were you gonna do out on location? Yeah, so that was probably Wealed, you know, they had to build what on whatever they had to do to take the time for those kinds of establishing shots and The other thing about it aside from being the maverick His we mentioned this about the first film that it felt almost like the documentary. Yeah, same same thing Yeah, I know watching and I I will always be unashamedly Biased toward this by reason of the connection with Bengal and Calcutta and the Bengal enus of this and the Capturing this this slice of life out of time, but I'm so eternally grateful for The preservationists who have saved this film Because I feel that this film is as important to our understanding of life and history in India and Bengal as architecture that you want to preserve because Like when he showed this establishing shot when opu first makes it to Calcutta and it's on the city street and I literally like made a noise and reached out toward it of That that's Calcutta like from the 1950s. He didn't create 1950s Calcutta that is 1950s Calcutta and You you can never replace that It's completely irreplaceable and and if that's he he also has the capacity score says He said this when he talked about the influence this the trilogy had on him. Yeah was the fact that he Rye is and I'm I'm genuinely inspired by the guy and I can hear him screaming through his medium in his art form of What's your excuse? To not do what you want to do with your artistry because he had every excuse in the world to not get this thing Accomplished he could have said I don't have the money to get it done. I don't have the crew to get it done I don't have the professional actors to get it done. I'm out on location and I've got weather problems I've got this he not only got it done. He got it done with brilliance.  I think I articulated it this way to Andrani. I believe Satyajit Rai Isn't interested as much and what the audience expects versus what he needs to say Mm-hmm, and he's able to say this is what I want to tell you about This is mice. This is me as an Indian. This is me as a Bengali. This is me and my love for Calcutta This is what I want you to see as the experience of life And it has all these universal truths in it and it's the universal truths that connect with us as the audience and Then bring us into his world. So we're a fly on the wall and learn things about his culture Versus a lot of filmmakers will demand that you Learn their culture first and then get the messages. They're trying to say. Yeah, he's he's brilliant. Yeah, I thought When he got an award, he said something about Satyajit Rai He said that this is a film that was made by Indians For Indians correct that he shared with us exactly but has an accessibility Oh, yeah, any culture because he's dealing with universal truths Yeah, and that no matter how much time surpasses or where you live or what culture you're from Everybody struggles with this grief with people. Yeah, and totally empathize. Yeah, totally empathize with losing a parent a child a or Or the choices that you make for example, yes that how many kids Realize later in life that they made choices that were selfish and hurt their family. Yeah, like You know, I should have I should have been listening and paying attention to what was going on with my parent But instead I made the decision to go do that in college and then see the red In fact, I saw that in opal when he was grieving. I saw him grieving not just the loss of his mom I saw him grieving the decision. He made did not come back. That's why I don't see it as either malicious or hurtful I see it as tragic and I feel sorry for well I know that he feels sorry for that. Yeah, I Like I said, I love that he put that in there I like it when I have those reactions to characters because I think that's specifically what they were made for For me to have that reaction Yeah, it's up for your interpretation whether you like it like him or if you had a do like right See it like I saw it. I believe he felt sorry, but I do still doesn't I Like I said, I do believe he was sorry But he still did it and that's that's the thing but I enjoy that the thing he put that in this film Yeah, I enjoyed this the film and how he how he made that that juxtaposition Well done Corbin Miles. I did hear something just side note. Somebody told me that Steven Spielberg got his idea for ET ET Some one of rise one of rice films. That's what I've heard Yeah, I think you said that wouldn't surprise me. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny and it Two other things I want to talk about one continuing on with with rye It's We said this about a recent Prabhu thing In terms of the tragedy that we haven't been exposed to him until now I really feel I feel that Like I learned a lot about theater Experientially and and study right But there's something about rye in his film directing That I feel this way. This is the impact. I feel the brilliance of this guy can't be understated I feel like my understanding of cinema Has been comparable to the way a child learns a language before they know how to read and write it Or you can become completely fluent and conversant in it 100% fluent and conversant and know the ins and outs of the language and master the language when it comes to communication But you don't know how to read and write it and I feel like when I watch rye I'm learning the alphabet of cinema when I watch him direct where I myself am already fluent in the language But his directing is teaching me things about the actual alphabet and the grammatical structure of the way Directing is to be done at a level. I didn't know could be done Yeah, he's he's that ingenious to me and I'm astonished that I haven't Well known about him before I know about him just like they know about average Hitchcock Yeah, other revolutionary directors of the black and white maverick revolution that kind of changed the game Basically, yes, and that's he's in that same category He is as in the same way I just recently watched a great Charlie Chaplin film with Indrani and but even more so I just these mavericks literally who paved the way and everything that we do now in cinema as just the standard They did for the first time. Yeah, and yes Robbie Shankar His score isn't musical. It's emotional It is it is as again like Satya Jirai like Corona Bonerjee Saying so much with so little and how oftentimes it's just an essence that he puts you into It's it's not a musical score. It's an emotional one. He does just Unbelievable what do you think is gonna happen in the next one? Well, I think we're obviously gonna follow up into adulthood to yeah Well, I could go right Like this one did I think it went right from where it's left off. I hope essentially so probably in this college Yeah, and I don't know if he's gonna take it. I don't know if this is the totality of This I mean if this is gonna make a big jump and cover a huge span Are we gonna follow up through his entire life when he gets a family right? Yeah, and he has kids and he becomes a dad. Are we just gonna follow him into his from his young adulthood into Full maturation as a man I was wondering why it was called the aputrilogy for a while until the mom died because we From the first to you follow the mom most right time.  Yeah throughout. Yeah, which is So you'll see that in just a couple seconds. I think it's like happening in three two One oh good shirt change and furniture change The magic of movie I think the background change too, I don't know how this is all been made in the same day I think you've trimmed your beard probably Wow It's it's all movie magic, but yes, we are we finally watched the third one That means we have now officially seen the entire opu trilogy and watched it It didn't wasn't very long for you. It's not like sacred games, right? No, you got to see it in one fell Which is why we did it the way we did but yes, this one is the third one. It's called That's not the actual note right here. Cool. Yeah a Poor son. Sorry. Yes, but and for the Bengalis. It's a poor shun char a poor shun char In Bengali. Gotcha. Yeah, and it's still directed by such as right and still Robbie Shankar. Yeah, which is amazing that The I didn't know that Robbie Shankar was gonna do all of them I didn't either and was hoping he was at the first one. Yeah, I'm glad he did But yes, this one much to say but we have much to say much to say as we do Yeah, this review is probably an hour long honestly. It's gotta be But that's one starring say these names for me, please. Yes Sumitra Chatterjee who do you know? Right here off the at the get-go. You know who that is aside from being at so pooh That's the guy from the short film. Yes. Well done. I sent you that. Yeah. Well, no Not recently. Yeah, since you that information not recently. Yeah, no, all I remembered was the C. Folly cons mom thing Yeah, I told you it was it was the guy from the short film and then I must have received it after I must have received that from you after Anyway But yes, and then it's also starring and it's also starting a shimmer litur who's say Folly cons mother. Yes and I Want to talk about her first. She was fantastic and she honestly had a very small role And I was kind of sad when when what happened man, of course But it was she did so so well I mean, this is the first thing outside of a song. Yeah, I've seen her in the set the women in all three films Yeah, she has such a screen presence about her And yeah, I'm sure you guys know this about her career But that's the first time we're seeing her and I thought for being almost silent most of the time She made quite an impact.  Hey now. Do you want to be the groom? So I I understand it's probably cultural. Yeah, it is cultural. I just don't understand It is cultural and the fact that there's an auspicious hour that needs to be done. That is. Yeah, I was like, I was like I'll just try this will be culture. I still think it's weird, but okay, right? But it was it was a very I thought it was well done how he handled that situation And how she did as well that whole scene where he's talking to her as to what she said about energy was just staring off and Beautiful direction obviously by such a guy in that scene. I so I it's my one Lot say this might actually be my favorite of the three. Hmm. Yeah, and it's interesting. I would agree with you It is I feel like they've done this as they on yeah And they really are it's like Gangs of Wasp or Gangs of Waspers one film five hour long film Yeah, and this is this is this is a film in three parts You just need to watch all three of them and it is a singular No piece of work absolutely. Yeah, and I thought he did really well one of the reasons it might be my favorite is because I Enjoy acting and once you get adult actors. Hmm. They know what to do. Mm-hmm usually And I suppose you can't really blame kids even though the kids in this were fantastic Yeah, all of the kids were not like something like some of the best most natural acting I've seen in cinema Which is really an attest to what such a ride can do agree But the the fact that they brought a bunch of depth to these characters now That I really really enjoyed. I thought he did a phenomenal job I agree and he being so meet your challenges to meet your challenge Sorry and in showing up who struggles and his his growth and his What basically what he was going through obviously he's he's gone through a lot Yeah, he's a cursed child man. Let me tell you I'm very interested after I saw this Especially in light of how you felt about a poo from the first the second film So now that you've seen this what what were your feelings about him in the third?  No, no, no, no, I expect this. I I appreciated I enjoyed him and I love the performance.  I'm just if you leave your child for five years.  Yes, what can't what? There's well what he specifically is going through.  Yeah, it doesn't mean it's okay No Well, no, I don't see that's I don't go that far. I agree It's not okay, and it's not the preferred thing that he should have done He should have you know in a perfect world. That is what he does. However, he's a grown adult man Who has been shaped by doesn't mean profound suffering and tragedy. That's no excuse for leaving your child. It When you I don't I there's not an area where I will agree with you abandoning your child is a good thing to do You know you might in 20 years. No. Yeah, you know it because there are aspects and it's what makes his It's what makes the finale for me so powerful is because of what He is having to deal with and why he abandons his son It's the same reason that people for example Just just this is one example. Well, there will be dads who never said I love you to their sons and When they're on their deathbed finally say it once Was it wrong for them to have not said I love you for the whole entirety of the child's life? Absolutely But are there reasons as to why they do that? Yeah, there's it doesn't there's a difference between excusing something and explaining it and things can be wrong Yet simultaneously be understandable in terms of what the person's having to deal with and it doesn't excuse the behavior But it does give you a level of empathy and at the end for me the power of seeing what happens with opu I mean at the end I was I was literally saying it at the screen over and over Come on Come on up who do it you can do it. Don't give into your fear. Don't give into the way tragedy has shaped you and and I I get It's tragic and it sucks and I get There are some things that people go through that are so painful and so tragic that they literally don't know how they can function or exist or Do something and they're the only thing they know how to do to cope without losing their minds or jumping off a cliff is To run away from it. Mm-hmm.  Sorry. I don't I and I know why He was doing it. He doesn't want to lose anybody else if he if he attaches to this child Yeah, I'm also going to lose this child. That's a million reasons for him and that is a huge one. Hey, I Understand why he did it.   No, well, he wrote the script It's taken from a book. Oh, it is. Okay. Yeah, so he took the bit adapt He adapted it and I don't know the original material, but I think it's brilliant script I thought it was a really well done script in terms of how many how much stuff you go through and there's really short amount of Time for being such an old film. I'm surprised at how short each of these films are.  I don't know but like It's what hour 45 hour 50 this one. Maybe right under two under two It seemed really short and hit everything went by really really fast. It almost caught me by surprise That she died when she did I was like, oh really shocked. I kind of expected. I was like who's life is just sad and I'm assuming this is just gonna be another sad story right on top of his already sad life And so I expected somebody to die I was just kind of hoping it wasn't her or right then because I was like I was just getting into we got two films with the mom who I really really enjoyed right and then you just kind of Almost got half of a film with this one But and I thought it was a really well done point for both rye and For opu the capturing of the moment when he finds out She's dead and how that is the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back for him. It's I I can't I can't That's the last That's the last loss like someone I love. Yeah, that's the last loss of someone. I love so much so That there were so many points in this that got me so emotional Because I can relate to them Personally the the moment where he's sitting there watching the sunset and he has his book and he just does this and gives it away and Don't don't let her That's why I said I did you can ask my wife. I said don't litter That's where your mind was at that moment. Yeah I enjoyed that symbolic moment But at my mind's different go I I knew he was What he was doing was It wasn't just he was saying God I give my life to you and I'm giving it up. It was him It was him saying This is the only thing I have left that I love and I can't bear the thought of it being taken for me or not Coming to fruition the way I dreamed it would come to fruition.  I thought I was gonna kill himself. I did too when he was standing at the train Yeah, yeah, I thought he was gonna put himself on the train. I thought that's how the film was gonna end up Me too. No way. Me too. I got excited. I know he's Do it do it show the blood But he he he he lives and continues to send money to his son Which is obviously at face value. That's such a shallow empty thing to do But the reality of it is is that is the one last little thread ember of Hope that's still left inside of him that keeps him alive. Yeah, and I just thought it was And and the symbolism at the end the fact that he when he showed up and I thought that little boy did a beautiful job. Yeah, really beautiful job They did a really good job of casting almost everybody because that yeah, okay look like him when he was a little kid It were my all the booze looked very very still like they would actually grow up to be this man And I love when we first see him. He's out playing and it's like I saw him and I thought Just like your dad You're out playing and shooting arrows and out in the wilderness and yeah He does what every little kid would do even when their dad isn't around when someone Says you can't do that.  I already know if you're wondering no, I don't even need to ask him I know he didn't cry. No, right. That was never close We haven't even we haven't even brought that up in a while about make Corbin cry. It's not it's never gonna happen. Yeah, I was a Snot running out the nose. Oh, really? Oh, I was a mess. Yeah, and when it was over, I was still crying talking to Indrani about it Yeah, I was a mess. Yeah. No, no, I didn't cry especially in light of The fact that he showed up I was so happy and I'm just saying please opu Please don't give him to your fear. Don't give it to your pain. Don't give it to pessimism Let the love you have for this boy Keep you going.  That's the hardest thing and that's one of the beautiful things about there's so many in the message is What do you do when your dream has died Mm-hmm You dream another dream and that is so freaking hard when you've had a dream that dream is a dream the heart makes So for him to have seen The most important things in his life die over and over and over again and then himself Sacrifice what he wants to be as a writer. Yeah, there he is Looking at the thing that was scaring him the most of can I love again? Uh, can I dream again? Should I open my heart up to this but inside of him? He's like how that's that little thread pulling him When I saw that he bought him of all things a train And the whole train thread the whole train thing and the the the ending of the film The dialogue between him and his son the way it was written and the way it was directed Was so powerful Where he said Here we go When he's asking him are you really my dad? and then he says I want to be your friend and um that moment when he was walking away and his son first appears behind him and he turns and everything inside of He's saying please unite you guys Please let this happen Don't give up opu because how many times have we watched opu walk away from something you shouldn't have walked away from and there he is looking at his kid and Ending with them not walking alongside a train track which represented throughout this Advancement of the future the unstoppable ability of time that the rigidness of things that you can't change and you can't That has no life in it at the end. They're not walking alongside a train track They're walking alongside a river with this boat that's going in the same direction They are with his son on his shoulders, which uh That's one of my happiest memories from childhood is walking in disney land on my dad's shoulder I was yeah, and there was there were certain shots in this too. Like whenever it was the river There were some beautiful shots of the river and this one.  I don't know anyone tries to colorize this thing I'm gonna burn down Don't touch this film. Yeah The colorizing film is weird. Oh man My wife won't watch the in color one full life. No, no, no, I don't watch anything that's been colorized I don't I don't want to see it. Um, but yeah And now also the I thought the score in this with Robbie Shankar as always is really really good But I think this one was even it had a lot more score. I felt like there you go It was perfectly the first thing that came into my mind when I was watching it was Here we go We've entered the world of a poo as an adult which compared to a child's world is so much more complex And what does Robbie Shankar done? He's given us the most complex musical scoring for the thing Still keeping amazingly what we talked about in the other two still giving you a sense of emotion rather than You know like at the end You don't want in a moment like that as a director. You don't want people thinking about your score You want the score to be enhancing the emotion I wasn't thinking about the score. Yeah, and that's it's just Absolutely beautiful. Yeah, it was brilliant if there's one gripe I had and it was just a personal Preference and it was the very end part even though I enjoyed it as a cinematic thing A kid going to a guy he hasn't known And so he's just calling his father at five years old I don't know if a kid would just be that willing Kids are pretty stubborn and they he knows his grandpa And he knows he loves his grandpa true That's his only figure that he's on this random person that's saying his father kids wouldn't normally go I understand why he did it. It's much more cinematic that way. It is much much much better stories How long do you think how do you how long do you think what poo was there before he left? It where There with this kid because he arrives and he's there for an amount of time before he leaves I thought it was just a couple days. Well, I did too. I didn't think it was a matter of hours I didn't think it was it was several days and the reason well, there's two reasons I Three reason probably I like the ending one is because I'm the hopeless romantic who wants a happy ending No, I enjoyed that. I enjoyed the ending. I don't know if I would have believed that Yeah, I believe it in light of the fact that the fact that it's been several days The fact that there have been Low Attempts by him to reach out and most importantly because when we first are introduced to this little guy It's what he's wanting the most so be I think He's uh, he's really not sure and it's what draws him to come out at the end is when his dad goes to leave Which again for me Unless he doesn't take the kid with him and he's like he says he just wants to be his friend for now And they just yeah, I don't know. I don't know my my then that guy can believe My my my personal experience the subjectivity of my personal experience and having been an only child whose parents divorced at seven And when I was 12 wanting to go live with my dad Yeah, um, I can resonate with the prospect of a kid In that position who's been waiting so long to be with their dad And looking and seeing him and saying are you really my dad? It's finally here. Here's the hero I've been waiting for you didn't know your dad the entire true true. He this is the first time he's seen his father True and so that that's the only thing and it's not a big thing. Like I said, I still enjoyed the ending a lot I just don't know if I fully believe it, but I understand why he did it And I enjoyed it, but you know, that's that's the only gribe outside of that. It's a fantastic fantastic series It is it lived up to the expectations. Yeah, maybe even exceeded it a little bit It did for me. I told that to indrani when I was talking about it was the the We have really high expectations for this coming in because so many people had said you're You don't know what you're missing. This is one of the greatest directors in cinematic history. So that's a that's a tall measure to get up to and it Completely went beyond anything I was expecting It is This film for many reasons Can we just talk about something right now? No, there's a moment I was flabbergasted They're in the movie theater and how great was that to see that old film. That was cool So they're in the movie theater and rye has a close-up shot on the movie screen This gets me emotional thinking about it too because this may have been this may have been the first time this was done But that he did this at that time It's on the movie screen It blurs and he pulls back And we're now looking out the window of their carriage with no cutaway Obviously, there was a cutaway But he had to have pre-visualized that shot before And not only pre-visualized that idea Then had to articulate to his People that were working with him what he wanted to do and then when he edited it All he had was a razor blade and 35 millimeter And had to do something that the finished product is pretty freaking seamless I I just was jaw-dropped astonished at that shot for what 1959 for this one Yeah, and then 1925 on the first one a first time director granted. It's his third film But this is one film first time director Doing something in in in Bengal that he has very little money to do And is just the man is a maverick. Yeah that that we there are things that are done now in cinema Uh, obviously because Scorsese has mentioned him to Quentin Tarantino has talked about him Yeah, so he's just and he is everything everybody has said he is. Yeah, and uh Obviously we loved it. So please let us know what of his we should be what I don't know if you know of any There's a lot. I know but I do know I do know this because obviously I was talking to and Johnny about it was that he he um This was the the work that had the most international notoriety for him Because what he did with the majority of his career was is known throughout Bengali cinema that he's done Dozens and dozens of film But of the dozens of film that he's done the diehards who followed him would pay attention to it But it didn't have the kind of international Renown that the obu trilogy had got and so there's not only a ton of film But there's an entire film institute of his Calcutta Well, let us know what we should watch if his next or uh, what other Bengali film as well And I want to watch the work of uh, mr. Chatterjee That we got to be exposed to a book older. Yes, because we didn't even realize who we were seeing. Oh, yeah It looks much different in that short film. Yeah, and different now come on now. Yeah Show me let's go. Yeah, I'd like to see more of her. She has she was she has an innocence of uh, Shredhavi or Madhuri Dixit I feel to it of beauty There were moments she was on screen and I was actually I had andrani watching it with me through the phone as well And both of us at the same time there were some shots that he got of just her face And we both at the same time went oh Yeah, she's beautiful.  I would love to see somebody somewhere put this up on an actual Movie screen and get the chance to see it the way it was supposed to be seen Maybe at his film institute. Maybe that'd be freaking awesome.  You thought we'd never get to it and it only took an hour. Yeah


How do you pay attention to the man you're married to? Not sure, not sure what you mean by that. How do you pay attention to the man you're married to? You're having problems paying attention to the man you're married to? Seems like a strange. Well, you can focus on learning how to pay more attention to somebody, right? Like, if you want to pay more attention to a guy, what you need to do is get curious. If you're like, hey, I need, like I have a problem with paying attention to him, which is what it sounds like your problem is. What you need to do is get curious about him, get curious about who he is, get curious about his life, get curious about what he does. Just get curious about him in general and that will help you a lot.