All right, welcome to the Saturday training class. This is my favorite service of the month Because I always get a lot of good questions question and answer period my goal is a Sitting here in this room right now. If you look at that Woman right there and that one The one fiddling with her hair And those two back there Okay This guy sitting here When they first started out they couldn't pray their way through a wet paper bag And they had no idea what they were doing they themselves were in bondage and now they're blowing devils out of people like shotguns and Wounds and everything coming out. They've healed so many people. It's ridiculous I'm trying to do I'm trying to replicate that That was my goal Yeah, and it's and it's slowly working I Need more of that. I'd like to double it then after I double I'd like to double it again Yeah, I'm a very greedy person But that's the purpose of it getting people ready to go They get delivered first they repent of their sins and they Deliver and heal others. That's how the gospel works. It's in Matthew Mark Luke and John. It can be any clearer And that's how God sets the system up and so when I read it there I said well, I'm gonna try to replicate what I see there And that's what I saw the church was not doing They were setting up self-sustaining systems Which is a failure you want to Equip and help get people Fill with the Holy Ghost ready to go fighters spiritually trained You know so that they don't need me anymore. I'm a non entity They just go on and kill it man If you do that in a church You'll get thrown out because there's jealousy. There's a hierarchy there and if you buck that system You draw red flags. I Was in this in the systems.  They don't need me. I got the Holy Ghost I Did a teaching on my podcast on Sunday mornings. I do a 9 o'clock a.m. Podcast now and I was doing the teaching on you know what I've done before on Getting divorced and I was showing what Jesus was saying and Matthew 5 and so on and I explained that God allows you to get divorced for fornication and then I explained what fornication was and The difference between that and adultery Okay, so some friend of mine from the old days back at the dream center in Scottsdale years ago Sends me a Facebook message You need to get a hold of I heard your teaching this morning And you need to get a hold of such and such so and so because there's a lot more reasons why you can get divorced And she listed a bunch of like that said hey, I'm on board. What's the scriptural background for that? How could what scriptures do I use to prove that and she had none? Not a one she told me to contact that guy That and today from air spirits. See how that brainwash they take your mind That woman that contacted me is an intelligent person Teacher didn't have one scripture to prove and the reason that She was doing that was because I met her husband and knew him. He wouldn't come for deliverance She came for deliverance, but she wouldn't submit and repent We couldn't get any demons out of her. This is years ago like for the 20 years ago So what was that when I was over the dream center? So that deliverance flopped with that whole family her son Had severe bipolar. You couldn't get any demons out of him. He wouldn't repent the whole thing was a total flop She her husband was nuts. He was a teacher, too Kenny garden team were first grade or third grade and she left him. She couldn't take it anymore guys guys a nut Okay, so when she heard my teaching She started to fill her depends while she was driving. What do you mean?  I respect him as a teacher, but now this has hit me in the gut Okay, so she immediately sends me a Message to fix me and then I said oh that sounds good Let I'll go ahead and teach that could I have the scriptures you're using To say that you can divorce your husband if he's got dirty underwear There was no scriptures. I don't have any and so then click I'm telling you those are the demons that Told her you can divorce someone for any reasons. That's what the Pharisees told Jesus Is it legal to divorce your spouse for any cause?  I didn't criticize her. I just said can may I please have the scriptures Supporting that so I can clue that my teacher. I'm not gonna get up here and teach something that I Don't have any support for at all. Come on But I said I just told you that story to show how subtle it is. It's so subtle Yeah When he was A lot of scripture about love But so I followed him for a while, but I remember you mentioning that at some point you cracked up right and Just this week. I saw a big of Him and I'm like, oh my god, this must be it. It's like a 20-minute video And he's he's got like I don't know 7,000 people in his audience And he's going up to his different ministers. He just taps him on a cheek like the first one he tapped The guy jumped up ran over to the altar jumped on the podium. He's about four feet high Jumped into the garden or something He's going to everybody just saying all right. I need somebody to wrap it up He gives the people a microphone And all of a sudden they can't talk they start cracking up and stuff so I Guess that would be an example of a great man But somehow how did he get Well now what? Thanks, thanks for Joe getting ahead of my teaching That's a giant buzzkill Okay, so let's get done with this so I can go to Joe's division Okay, and any last questions about do not recommend these ministries anymore If you want to recommend them on your own or you want to go there on your own, that's your business I don't tell people how to live their lives. It's not my job.  I just move forward too bad There we go Worry about that anymore Now let's go over this one real quick. We do our quick refill here You know how human beings are made if you don't you can't do proper deliverance with them Because you don't know where the root problem is coming from if you don't get to the root it'll manifest again later Right. So your soul is where your emotions come out of if you have soul wounds Or you're emotionally ill.  It doesn't matter bang You're going perfect. Oh, right in there perfect jacked up Still go perfect.   It's all based on your free will Because God already said this is my will. This is for you. This is yours. That's my will Here it is Here's your healing. Here's your deliverance. Here's your ministry. Here's your destiny.  He said you choose. Okay, you chose porn this week Okay, chose that this week. Okay If you choose to repent then you'll get forgiven for that this week If you choose not to repent, that's your business God lets you do it So you're we're going to get a lot of people in here with they think they want deliverance But then when they find out ooh, God just requires repentance. Oh, I don't know. Let me think about it Then you let them think about it. You don't try to force them You know, don't waste your time and your energy on somebody who's not ready to repent This is why the alter deliverance method doesn't work very well Okay, you set the person down there. It's basically a soul wound healing method So sit down there and then you divide soul and spirit And then you start talking to the demons. How'd you get in there? What are you doing there? Then you tell them are you going to leave or not?   Okay That method is fairly effective for soul wounds but very poor for Deliverance of demons Because it's not a repentance based system Have you ever seen that done before that altar? I got a friend of mine That's the best of the business at it period. Nobody better than him.  I don't think so I don't buy that No, no, no, no, no, you Got a problem in your mother. Let's get that Right Erica. You get that done right away You don't go anywhere till that's fixed Right, the father said that period. We're not going to the courts. I have them. We're going to go down here underneath I don't need any courts. I have it. I got heaven. I got the word of God. How'd that go? Okay, so You could be a super powered minister Hagen, okay?   They can't do anything And if you say anything against that person they come after you You're dividing the body of credit you I've heard every criticism the world against me everyone. I got all of them I got back of them. You need you've got to understand your character Can be flawed, but your anointing can be high Because the Bible teaches when God gives you a gift he never takes it back So you could get the gift of this and that and this and that and then decide to Quit and become a pimp You can speak in tongues while you're scheduling John's for sex Anybody hear what I said Okay, I'll say something stupid again You can go into organized crime and speak in tongues while you're robbing the store Because God gives gifts and he doesn't take them back I share an example Back when Pete was still using he'd be totally high on heroin and he'd pray with people Right Oh, yeah Right so what she said was Pete's healing was coming out of a spirit man, but his body was still addicted to drugs See that John Yes, you can backslide and still keep your anointing you can decide to quit Your sanctification The gifts and calling is not going to be retracted you can retract them you can do whatever you want You pimp that's quenching It'll quench the anointing but the gifts are not going to be withdrawn from you So when you see somebody on TV With these massive anointing and giftings it does not mean they are good people they could be con artists The anointing runs the gift so you got the gift and you plug it in the gift manifests, you know The anointing is kind of like the electricity and boom the Ferrari Elbow musk see how I threw that in Didn't get that did you see it's elevated So it seems like sometimes when you're not in obedience with the Holy Spirit the flow doesn't come through The anointing doesn't yes, you can quench your anointing sure The guy gives it right Right And you can plug it back in quickly because the blood of Christ allows you to repent fast It could be it could be seconds For minutes or a day or what have you? No, it hasn't gone away. It's only been muffled right right right Right so you can have this great minister Who's he was a horses patoot?  You already know what happens Right, it's just common. This is second of the thing He she whoever and they're still operating in the gift right, but their character right stunk, right? So the the anointing might be quenched two things are right back so They're annoyed quenched so if they their character was hired their anointing would be higher What you're saying No, okay. No, so what do we mean by no, I think it it like is it's it's not a a or B It's it's a it's levels varies with each person quenching anointing So let's say you got the gift gift of healing Wigglesworth had the gift and you got it. Okay, but his manifests with Stuff I'd okay. I got a little anointing for healing But I don't have Wigglesworth's anointing because I don't get creative miracles. I don't get quadruple I went over it last night. You know, I got a little barrier there Okay, so his charge Higher than my I plug it in it goes to here So to speak the gift is that but the energy Anointing behind it the power behind it is different with each person. Everybody has a different annoying No one is like everybody's like fingerprints. Everything's different Yeah, well in fact faith is a gift so Wigglesworth had the gift of faith and when he plugged it in it goes to here. Well, I plugged it in it went here I was just thinking about our character is reflecting Right supposed to yeah, that's what I mean. That's really the goal, right? That's a goal sanctification, right? And so when we see people with anointing, we've seen a lot of this It doesn't actually get blurry to God because it's not you don't see it in their character The gift might be that we've seen a lot of stuff, too But it's the character of the person that comes through That I think attracts people to Christ Because they see Christ Now what you're talking about there is Not what I'm talking about but your point is valid The Goal is to be Christ light and have a Christ like character that should be all of our goals Does that happen? No It happens Individually differently like fingerprints everybody has a different character a different anointing even if they got the same gift Correct. You didn't you didn't hear me on Everybody has a different character Okay Nobody's exactly the same. No one even in families. They're different even twins are different Your care character is tied into your conscience and your conscience is a center of your morality So let's say your character Allows this but his doesn't click Conscience everybody has a different conscience The goal like you said is to have the conscience of Christ nobody's perfect and everybody goes up and down and Here God will not take back what he gave you he doesn't do that So when you're ministering to somebody if they've had these gifts and they no longer operate or they were doing that And it's not working anymore. You tell them the truth.  That's telling the person the truth You can be forgiven and restore Sarah was I taught her it last night Sarah was a certified screw-up, but she got forgiven Yeah, two part question. I want you to expand more on what you mean by up and down maybe some examples and To kind of piggyback on what Danny said my son said to me Right Well, that depends on what you define work as Is it able to work that way? Yes. Is that God's will? No Because he has a he has a flawed character. He has a physical addiction He has demons in his body pushing him to take drugs But he has an anointing for soul winning. See that So you can have a flawed person doing wonderful things for God So those demons are in your soul Vine isn't that going to Cause a huge cloud over over your joining. Yeah, sure That's going to yeah, and the Bible says your signal find you out so sooner later.   It's a law of God. So I gravity a very effective minister Well, I'm not for long. I mean is if his son keeps doing that the devil's eventually killing But he didn't ask me that he asked me is that is that possible and I'm trying to explain the mechanics of how it's possible It sounds like I'm a heretic But if you understand how this breaks down You can see how people can operate in their anointing yet be this rotten person under these circumstances But under these circumstances they look like John the Baptist Like Pete Pete was John the Baptist see and then he saw I let's people who cries hallelujah See that physically activity might go quick is They're really going to press it on you. I mean you're going to anointing in the afternoon that taking method in the morning I mean those demons are causing the addiction that they're gonna make sure that Die quick, of course Of course, well, he didn't ask me that He didn't ask me that question. I was just explaining what he said what you said is valid. Yeah, you play around the devil.  Yeah A bigger picture to this that God is so merciful He'll use unqualified people to deliver his mercy Especially in the site that there's nobody that has ever worked for God that's qualified except Jesus Christ Yeah, of course his first Corinthians chapter one we all fall into that category what I'm trying to show is the mechanics of how it works Everybody it's flawed and everybody at one time used to be a super suck But that's called redemption. That's called Mercy that's called grace Which I had to scrape in by the truckload to get anywhere I was a super duper.  Yeah Mercy Caught me Not me my ability. I got no ability. Yeah Another question. Oh, yeah fire away. Maybe it's off topic, but when you're teaching somebody else how to have discernment and You know, you don't want everybody to lay hands on you at which I know and But I'm just saying I understand the concept I understand the scriptures and all of what you're saying concept of what is you have to have discernment When somebody is teaching you or somebody is praying for you And so if I know that the person's character isn't any good. I don't care how sick I am I'm not letting that person pray for me. Yeah, good idea. And when I'm teaching people to have discernment I Need to be able to show them and explain to them how when you're looking at the person's character That's part of the proof a that they're saved and that their gift is What God will not just that they have a gift, but it's God's will It's not going to mislead them because I've seen that happen where a person has a gift But their character is not the character of Christ So people go to that person and they they get healed they get delivered and then it all comes back on them Because they've submitted in a way that they shouldn't because they didn't test it See if it was really from God because it's very hard to discern what is from God. How do we do that? Understand the concept about having a gift and that doesn't remove the gift. We've seen that but Then you know, how do you teach somebody discernment so that they know because the enemy is very good at imitating Okay, now that was a long question and there was a lot of trails in that question, but discernment is Bifurcated there's the gift of discernment And then there's discernment that I'm trying to do today I'm trying to teach you how to recognize Spiritual things Okay, this isn't the gift of discernment in operation So my point was If you run into somebody who has a bad character you're not going to know it normally Particularly an evangelist or something You don't even know the person So they could be jack But they may also have legitimate Anointings and giftings So if you know about him like she said yeah, I would recommend you not let him put lay hands on you absolutely Those people in Hagan's ministry near it near the time he died They should have never let him put hands on They would fly out of their chairs Vibrate up to the altar like it was terrible and Really that proves that no matter how high your anointing is or how intelligent you are You can get tricked Anybody can be tricked Healing yeah, yeah, I'm not talking about that. That's that's not what I'm talking about right now, but I'm Talking about if they have legitimate gifts from God God not demons. Yeah now the familiar spirits they'll know and Do the fake healings temporary healings Todd Bentley textbook example lots of lots of healings lots of Healings falling out You know Todd Bentley textbook terrible character terrible All kinds of sex. Oh a lot. Oh, it's terrible Big Beautiful anointing Pretty good preacher led all kinds of people to God lots of healings Classic of what I'm talking about here Yeah, thanks for saying that that couldn't be a better poster child for this I had conscience problems integrity issues but You know pretty powerful man of God there When he wasn't when he wasn't sinning, you know meant adultery and everything If you pass out you get any good stuff So a point I'm trying to make is that when you meet someone you don't know about that person's background You got to be careful with everyone Because you don't know So there's you don't have to be afraid of anybody, but you just say use caution use your discernment look for a little red flag You know, that's how you do it. Yeah If your desire is to really make out like and you recognize No Repentance is yeah deliverance alone won't work if the person doesn't repent and renew their mind deliverance is Not an effective Mathematics is the answer to character flaws when you recognize it in yourself. Yes Character flaw you're recognizing yourself then you cast the demons out see Nobody will get rid of something. They don't know the half Or God hasn't enlightened it today That's the purpose of trials so if I'm God I'm going to hit this person boom Something bad happened to him now. What's going to happen? This is going to manifest That's going to manifest over your trial And God's using the trial to expose what needs to be removed Okay, and you can't do that if you're blessing somebody Blessings doesn't work Only in adversity will you change?  Let's get rid of that He usually use the demons usually use people and they think they're attacking them and winning But the Holy Ghost saw it coming before they did it and now he's manipulating them Oh Face kicking on the way He saw the temptation come before you got it. He said oh, okay. Well, I'll let it go there And then I'll point out that then we'll reverse field on him So a lot of this is just inside inside job Inside job It sure is big time big time Now when you're reading to your Bible be careful. This word is deceptive cardiac is a Greek word Your heart it means your heart This word here heart is used to describe You don't know what it depends on what the text is context of the text, but it's something about your inner man your heart Your belly was used a couple times. That's colia that means your kidneys It doesn't mean your actual heart or kidneys It means your inner man coming from the depth of your out of their belly shall flow Rivers of living right. It doesn't mean your belly kidneys it means Yes, your inner man saying Out of your inner man come the issues of life Solomon said So when you see that term just park it there for a second see what the context of it is and then you know What the heart is talking about there's something about the inner man, you know You're talking about somebody having a gift of healing which applies to healing other people Not the gift of healing oneself. Okay. I mean if somebody has a bad Carrier they need some healing and even if they're healing somebody else It's God that is or not going to kill them Because I you know, I'm not familiar with people that have a gift of healing healing Themselves without healing from God. God is the great healer. It says all right in the scripture, right? You know, we we live in Malaysia and And a evangelist from India came through this guy I won't give his name, but he filled himself as Being the Billy Graham of India He had these big rallies and there were a lot of people that attended these rallies First of all, there's a lot of people in India from the first place and second of all these rallies were free So people that don't have anything will go about anything if it's free, right? So this guy came in and he started having a healing ministry in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia And this guy was so prideful that I couldn't even listen to him I went out the hallway while he was talking and so he went from there Back to India, but in the meantime, we knew people in in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Where they have been healed at this guy's and and you know what you're talking about tonight is in line with this This guy's character was flawed He went back to India and on the way from the airport home He his wife and daughter had a traffic accident. The daughter was killed and so This guy He told everybody the whole world that he was gonna Gonna resurrect his daughter bring his daughter back to life and That of course didn't work right Anyway, other things happened, but he came back to another meeting in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia And I'm telling you he was like a totally different person. His character had been changed And I would argue that had been changed by God So some of these guys that maybe can heal other people the question is can they heal themselves? Okay now and that was a tough Bunch of statements so What I was talking about earlier was the gift of healing which very few people have And then I mentioned Wigglesworth Okay Healing doesn't require the gift of healing. It's for every born-again Christian. It's part of the Great Commission Mark chapter 16 says you're they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall Recover, okay, so I don't have the gift of healing but I've seen hundreds of people healed Okay, so Having the gift of healing or not having it has nothing to do with you being healed That's between you and God Yeah, then what the other thing you said there earlier. I was saying that God allows Tribulation to come into your life to get you to see that you have conscience or character issues that need to be fixed Daughter died So that's that's telling me and I don't know anybody. I'm just guessing probably a legitimate man of God who had Integrity issues and conscience problems and the father in mercy Took the daughter to get him to change And apparently it works from what he said. I don't know if it worked. I just first time heard the story But it sounds like the Holy Ghost From my experience, which I have seen dozens of times before So God was trying to get through to the guy To get him to change. Okay. Now some people's character is so bad Their conscience is so rotten their minds are so deluded that only a trauma event will get through to them Trauma event Which will bring me over here in a minute And so that's what that guy got he was apparently so gone That some bad really bad thing had to happen to snap him And at work he repented from what he was saying see that So that that is exactly what I've been teaching here that evangelist he got consumed with pride He had a great anointing for evangelism or something then he's been seen all these people healed now Everybody knows we don't heal anybody. I When I say you have the gift of healing. That's not me doing it. It's everybody knows that's a Holy Ghost, right? When I say that I'm not saying we have all these gifts. They're given to us We don't have nothing we get it from Christ the healer Okay, so I'm not saying the person now if you go into this person actually healing something now We're back over with familiar spirits now. We're into voodoo. Now. We're into witchcraft now. I'm not talking about that I was talking about legitimate Christians Who are born again who have who pray for somebody and have them healed? And that's what all Christians can do any Christian can pray for someone and have them delivered and healed That's what it says specifically in the Great Commission. It's not a gift It's yours, but again, here's all your gifts. You take what you want God never forces you to take gifts He wants volunteers See and so Pete so Pete used to win people to Christ he was on drugs and then Then the Holy Ghost started working on his conscience and he started saying man I got to get off of drugs and I got to change my life I got to repent and then God used a bunch of adversity to knock Pete around and So then he changed right and now he's a Wonderful person, but he totally different than what he was which is the goal of Christianity is you Become a new person And my son is also your son. He's son repented. Okay, but before he was He went through teen challenge. Okay. No, don't get me started on that So is there any questions here on how this thing works?  You're going. Oh, I understand that it brother Mike. It's this it's that it's that Oh, I got it put it together I'm good with it. Go ahead and heal them See people who don't understand how this worked. They just go like this. Oh, that's the devil He's got a bad character and that person got healed. That's his satanic healing What may not be a safe tank could be legit. Well, they got a bad character. That's all Satan. No, it isn't It is not Well, just consider we'll consider this then when this person got Saved you weren't there when this person got filled the Holy Ghost you weren't there When this person went into the ministry you weren't there You're here when they're having character issues and flaws you weren't there when Benny Hinn was crying out to God as a Teenager begging God for mercy Worshiping God like crazy. All you see is a comb over and a TV fraud But that's here You weren't there when Billy Graham got What God gave him See am I Benny Hinn fan? No, I can't stand the guy. I love his anointing that he got Here when I wasn't there You weren't here But you're here when when Dave backslid he went back to pimping Okay, well, that doesn't mean that this was not legitimate It means he backslid 20 years later. See that We weren't there It's Benny and a good guy. No, I doubt it, but I wasn't there when he was here When he was booming And he was a childlike faith and loved God. He was Worship her and chase a God chaser When he was in his 20s, we weren't there.  They're of the devil. Look at their satanic. Look what they're doing Okay, you weren't there when they were doing the exact opposite 20 years ago 30 years ago 40 years ago But God was there See and so he takes you as you are see Billy Graham was great come as you are That's how he takes you He doesn't say well, I can't take that guy because he's gonna backslide 40 years from now He doesn't do that. He takes you as you are right now So in there You go for it That's how mercy works down. Oh my god. He died drunk the guy's a psycho his whole ministry of Satan No, I wasn't you weren't there when he was on his hands and knees at the lake Trying his eyes out and vomiting when he was a full-blown alcoholic at age nine You weren't there when you saw the Holy Ghost come on in Come on now This this is a sermon. It'll preach Steal it you need me to give me a credit. You don't need it steal it This baby will preach right here Crying out the God fill the spirit repenting oops drunk Well, you don't like that. Well, how about you want somebody treats you like that? Oh really?  That's the money cure that's wait a minute. This one demonic that one demonic Of Course I know the answer to this question because the opposite happened Can you start off drunk and horrible and all these things and then all those good things the anointing crying out to God? That comes later that yeah, I just said it Alan started a full-blown alcoholic in nine. Oh, yeah, okay, okay? That's a infill the spirit got massive gift of healing off the charge Oops Sunk back Died oh, he died. He was a rotten person.  I don't think so If you've been in to see me, I know so You're not there when those people Got filled and God took them in one hundred percent Now not most people don't fall I'm not saying that I'm just saying if they fall I'm trying to show you the mechanics of what happened and when they fell. I'm not saying everybody's doing this I'm just saying what that it happens pretty regularly and you need to be aware of How not to you know trash these people and condemn them to hell That's God's business But like she said hey if they've got flawed character and conscience problem. They probably picked up spirits So you don't want them laying their hands on you Say Lot of them never went down the tube sister at her didn't John Lake didn't Wiggles were didn't Yeah, some people fail some don't that's part of the human thing not everybody makes it not everybody fails It is what it is But you are not to get befuddled by any of it Knowledge is leads to wisdom. Let's go to the next section. This was even worse Now let's say Let's say you have a con artist Let's go with Peter pop off and Robert Tilton Okay, you go to the service and this person is a professional Fraud Okay, he is not a good man of God with character problems Right, he's got a seared conscience Right Before these guys showed up You had Marjo Marjo Gortner, right?   That's a rush And he heads into learning how to preach he learned how to preach and Did a good job preaching machine, okay?  That's demon day. I thought it was Halloween. No, it's election day now Marjo just learned to preach And he had an act for it, you know like an actor like whatever Some people have giftings for carnal things or secular things. Yeah right singing you know I Heard Whitney Houston saying It's not like angels saying you know She started out in church and then said hey this this other things working better so she went over to the demon side Right, but she had this On any unmatched gift to sing this guy had a gift of preaching He just learned how to do it and the demons blessed him and they told his parents Oh, he saved this is a real deal. The parents were deceived. They didn't see what was going on And then his parents retired and then he kept doing it making money preaching and His system only works with Pentecostals, Charismatics and prophetic that's the only way Marjo made any money because Those people are very soul emotionally oriented Christians Okay Marjo would not go to Lutheran's Episcopals and Methodists. They don't want him in there. They're not interested Because they are not soul-based religious people They just come in kind of stoically go through the system. They like it nice and quiet Marjo needs Pentecostals Mostly it was Pentecostal That's and he fooled everybody Very convincing very talented He'd watch other Pentecostal preachers and he mimic them. He'd learn it You know like an act like an eye good at it So then you got Tilton and pop-off professional con artists With people getting healed Now how in God's name can somebody get healed by at a Peter pop-off service Here's how it works I come in looking for Jesus and Peter pop-off is up there And he's preaching and I'm looking to Jesus the author and finished him a bang. I got healed I'm in a pop-off rally pop-off do the same thing Marjo did He watched Pentecostal preachers. He'd wear a little earpiece here His wife would look at the prayer cards Brenda Williams from Makuki, Illinois Bad back P. D. Peter There's Brenda Mukley from Kukuli, Illinois. She's got a bad back. Is there a Brenda here?  Are you from from Illinois? That's me. Oh my god. That's me. She thinks it's God Yeah, she comes forward. She's looking for Jesus not pop-off.  She gets up healed at a Peter pop-off rally God healed her not demons. God did This person came to the pop-off rally looking for Peter Peter, can you oh, we've got to get Peter to pray for us. They didn't get healed See the difference so you can go to a con artist service a fraud And get healed Yeah, I'm in trouble There's some emails on now Man looks on the out appearance.  I'm glad you shared that because that's explaining a lot All right now back to these frauds Peter pop-off Robert Tilton It's it's a it's a gimmick They just watched Pentecostal preachers they learned how to preach it's fake The job is to Got the money that's exactly right. So then When you're at pop-off learned that people can actually get healed if they're looking to Jesus at his meeting So he preaches a pretty good message of christ It's uplifting. It's uh, secret friendly It's jesus oriented say he learned how to do it And he does it with a lot of emotion which attracts Pentecostals Charismatics prophetic they're emotionally based worshipers Lutherans, Piscot, and messes they don't do that They're not interested in Peter pop. They don't watch him They're not they don't care No, it's it's an emotional soul hook That pulls you in See And the idea is to You get on the mailing list And use you support the ministry Okay, and so you got to get a couple of healings going Maybe that one's legitimate from god. Maybe that one was a adrenaline rush Okay, right Maybe it was like I was saying the other night a fake Leg lengthening that's easy to fake. Okay, that's why I don't do it I just stand back and then I pray over here because I don't want something. Oh, you poor moving It could be fake. It could be adrenaline. It could be a real one. The point I'm trying to make is The person that comes to the meeting may have sincerity And they are looking to Jesus not the fraud on the podium And Christ in his mercy reaches out to that person And they can get healed in a fraud service A few weeks ago local ministry here had a huge meeting over in Chandler and Gilbert somewhere a retreat There was all kinds of people getting delivered in that service Even though the ministry is loaded With familiar spirits. What are you talking about? Like this is crazy. No, it isn't The people came with open hearts for god God And these people got healed These were people pursuers. They didn't get healed Or they got a fake healing Todd Bentley healing Is this making any sense the reason I'm telling you this I want you to understand How this system works because it looks weird See in the devil blows he goes if you go to Peter pop-off service He would tell us because we've got insightful information He said, oh no, those are all satanic healings He white washes everything and lumps everybody in the same bucket There's a scripture for this Okay, now that scripture is a little different than what I'm talking about but the point of that scripture was We don't have the book on deliverance here That's Part of the gospel We're just taking a segment here at the deliverance center trying to help people So somebody else is doing deliverance.  Okay. I said that earlier You know, it's just not that effective Because if there's no repentance then there's no long-term deliverance No renewing of the mind. Yeah Would you look at this uh We're talking about Gives somebody spirit. We're talking about sanctification But what about the issue of salvation? I mean somebody that has the power In the spirit Is it a given that that person has been saved? Like, you know, like from what you've been doing, uh, I feel like I'm cutting more slack for people like Jimmy swaggered and and Tammy and and Jimmy Baker and Oral Roberts and Kathlyn Coleman and so forth I'm cutting them more slack based on what you're saying about character there But I asked the question And that's between them and God, but I asked the question Are they saved? You know is is is Even if they have a bad character Is a criteria that they have that they're saved. Okay. Now, uh, that was another big load. Let's try and break that down If you're saved what you really mean is john three born again And that means the holy spirit lives here And that's what I was saying earlier.  The rest of it's flawed. This part's perfect And when the trumpet sounds this part here is it and boom you go Okay, jimmy swagger I just went over that Great man of God massive gift of preaching Soul winning monster. Uh-oh lots of demons got in Start going to horse How'd that happen? Well, obviously it's a combination of things bad marriage Personal issues Whatever was going on with jimmy It led him to become a boyer, you know, he liked to watch Horrors dance and take their clothes off. In other words, he liked a private Pole dance, okay instead of going to a club which he couldn't do because of marketing purposes He he got a pole dance in private. That's basically what it was Well, those were lust demons that got into his body and hyper ventilated his lustful nature his marriage was Sexually and so boom jimmy's out there Getting his jollies And so God as we mentioned earlier sent in a trauma to help him a trauma. He got caught And he was on tv crying his eyes out Right and he everybody forgave him. He went right back doing a great job Powerful anointing winning souls and then over the years guess who got back in They got in again Then what happened? Okay. He got caught again Picked up a prostitute in indio california on the way back To louisiana. Oops. He got caught again Okay, then his ministry went From here to here Right and in the last 10 years. He's built it back up to There and he's booming again. Okay. Now. He's an old man.  You've got a shot at this thing If you humble yourself and you repent you can be restored period That's what the bible says. That's what we teach here. You are able to be restored It doesn't matter how bad it is. It doesn't matter what you did You could be an indio with a pack of whores If you repent You get restored Steve yeah, you get restored if you get a view repent period and a story And jimmy got restored you ought to see his ministry now things booming man packed houses Huge tv audiences millions coming in jimmy rolling See but before he was living a living hell Of his own making why he doesn't understand deliverance jimmy doesn't do deliverance. He doesn't understand demons Lost demon got in and took him He became a voyeur addicted voyeur like porn addicts They're addicted voyeurs Fornication that's ground for the boars. His wife stood buying the whole time She never left You know Yeah So you repent and you get restored Oh, and for you still face consequences Of a hundred percent his ministry tanked Everybody reaps what they sell So the character That says we need to be blameless This is our our anointing There's a fine line of balance there Of course You you were told to be blameless Spiritually your spirit man is blameless right fusions one But if you got character issues And you got conscience issues You're going to be exhibiting sinful behaviors and attitudes Okay That's that's going to block your deliverance and your healing and cause all kinds of problems Whatever a man sows that shall he also reap But god didn't take your gift away from you and he didn't snatch your salvation.  Oh, you're not you're not saved.   You can't even dream about I mean I feel sorry for these guys You know something funny they interviewed margeau one day I saw the videotape of it. It was really interesting He was telling somebody about his life and how he got into it and so on and then he said, you know I'm starting to feel some depression as I get older He said, uh, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. I Don't feel good about it anymore. He says all these people come to me and they're They're sincere and they're hurting And I don't know I I think I'm I think I make quit Well, what was that that was over the years his conscience started to manifest Which it didn't when he was younger it was all about But I thought that interview was really interesting Margeau Gortner, he's still alive I think they're both alive. They're both still alive tiltons. I think con and people in florida and Uh Peter went to canada. He's in canada booming He had enough of americans. He went up there to clean them out And some people were getting healed just like I said, you know, they're getting healed Okay Everybody Isn't everybody You got that's what we do here. We're trying to get people delivered so they don't fall back into that pit of Possible or anybody Anybody anybody Yeah, I remember I read a medical, uh, study years ago Uh I forgot what year it was when Viagra came out. What year was that anybody remember that off the top of your head Viagra in the 80s remember Viagra what I think it was in the 80s I think it was in the mid or late 80s when they invented viagra, okay And I read this medical article about the spread of vd in sun city And I live in sun city and of course when I go outside i'm very cautious about I sneak over to my car so The elderly people had lost demons but their body wasn't performing So Viagra gave their body a chance to perform so the lust demon said hey There's Elsie. She's looking hot On the dance floor there She's 70 something and of course the women they over there.  There's nothing there And this Viagra was causing vd to spread in sun city Saying before I moved out there I called the county and said can you fumigate a little bit before That's how the system works the demons stay in the body until a person drops dead They leave the body then they go to another family member They always stay in that family tree Okay, I'm running on time here. So I wanted to mention this other subject, okay About two years ago or something. I saw Trump on tv with Herschel Walker I think he was holding a rally in pennsylvania It was two or two and a half years ago Does anybody know When that was Well, let's just pretend it was that and I go when I saw Herschel Walker, I go, oh my god No No, he's got borderline personality disorder I says to my wife You couldn't care less when I'm talking about She's not interested, but I say it anyway because of venting situation I said honey the tertiary walkers running for the senate.  You can't conceive nor believe I'm talking about police reports restraining orders beatings murders knives guns Everything okay, this mental illness here is a nightmare on elm street There's few mental illnesses worse than this one It's bipolar on steroids And almost all of them have a violent component to it Yeah, and sure enough This year they went into his background. That's what they found The trail of borderline personality disorder Abortions cops restraining orders divorces Multiple kids four kids with four different women. They all hate him Why these demons are on steroids They're monsters And they always start here With these two spirits right here this one and that one Okay, this is the rejection demon. He gets in first And then he lets in this one the rebellion demon and the borderline patients That's the dominant spirit And they are vicious angry murderous hateful Rageful And they work with walker for years now. How do they get in walker's textbook? Chronic severe child abuse Walker was destroyed as a child systematic chronic repetitive bullying in school Verbal abuse physical beatings for years All these demons got in All of them The rejection got in then the lost demons jumped in there. They are Four kids four different women chronic adultery borderline patients are Rarely single And frequently divorced. Do you know why they are Sex maniacs Borderline personality disorder in a female always guarantees a boyfriend.   It is This is bipolar Off the cliff I said to my wife she wasn't listening. I said honey if he runs for senate.   They'll take the greatest athlete in history. He's one of them The guys that This love off the charts great Okay So they worked with him for years They got the medication combination to the point where he wasn't killing people and burning down buildings And so then he kind of became a normal person Okay, and so he developed conservative values and he has a good heart You know, he really does down deep in here hat when the demons are not controlling him He's actually a good person and in borderline patients You'll see those distinct personalities this monster will come up and then this loving person will come And then this passionate person will come out and this fun person will come out. They're like a carnival See but it's all a giant fun house mirror Nothing is real And so the Democrats away with it This this guy had an abortion now.  That's bipolar on steroids. That's at another level You know, you'd have a mood swing on a bipolar here You know borderline here You know when we look at Herschel Walker, then we have to say What about Reverend Warnack the guy that you run it against him? Check that guy out Stop sir Don't get me on warlock Oh He's floating in familiar spirits. Don't start me on warlock. I was just pointing out this Important borderline. I'm not just using Herschel as an example. I'm not saying let's focus on Herschel He's a good guy and everything. I I did not nothing against her. So I'm explaining how this works Okay, warlock's totally different. He doesn't have borderline. He's got monstrous Seared conscience nothing bothers this guy He'll cheat he'll lie and cheat and it's just like pass this off It's not he has no conscience at all. He'll do anything Anything this though is Horrible these demons are just off the charts dangerous They're dangerous Literally dangerous Warnock's demons are not dangerous.  Yeah, they recognize it. Yeah Herschel did He went to therapy for years. They experimented with medications a thousand times. Yeah Hadn't he never got into deliverance He never repented he wanted to change but he never repented to god and he never got these demons out Now he claims he doesn't have borderline. Well, what's happening there?  Well, are there other yeah, they're all they're all personality disorders. See there's a category in the dsm For personality disorders. This is one type of personality disorder I pointed it out because herschel walker has it and I wanted to use it as an illustration Multiple personalities. No. No, this is borderline personality disorder. You're talking about dissociative identity disorder That's a different mental mental illness, but it's in the category of Or had anybody get delivered from PID like this? No Now they don't stay around long enough and again, here's the main spirit This one here The rebellion demon is the one that Kybosh is us They'll stay there for a while and then that thing will manifest and they'll bolt Or they'll turn on you. They'll start calling you names They'll attack you. I've never had one delivery. So with like multiple personalities. How do you know You could be getting them great deliverance And that's just one personality and another one Like can manifest as soon as they leave the center Right, I mean not really. No, it doesn't really work like that. What's happening there is the the spirits inside the person's soul Uh have different personalities That that's that's in this category. That's a severe mental illness Okay, that's in the oh my god category Okay, it's not an anxiety disorder. It's not depression those we see them in here all the time They get healed all the time here. We see them healed all the time Dids and bpds. No, we do not see healed all the time.  How do you know though? That's what I mean How do you know you're not dealing with How do you deal with all the personalities? Well, no, what you're really saying is how do you get them delivered? And so you have to figure out while you're working with the person what their real personality is Okay, so that takes you Some interpersonal interaction. You got to spend a little bit of time with them. You got to know what the real person is Because they're in there Okay, and then you got to get the real person to turn on the fake ones.  They are beyond sick And if you've ever been married or hang around somebody who has npd You know exactly what I'm talking about a narcissist is I mean an avalanche of agony And you can talk to them you're blue in the face and their demons just nod a And they go right back to it and Do you have any other serious mental illnesses you want to bring up strange group Okay Okay, I'm going to close now with this ready We are getting a lot of these not a lot of borderlines in here. Thank god. I pray and ask the lord To send them the Lutheran church We are getting a lot of schizophrenics ready Okay Here is your chart for the schizo-phrenics. Okay same demons Rejection lets in rebellion and then he lets in lust then he lets in fear all the deal they let They come flooding in all based on abuse now In order for these people to get healed. I have said I have seen schizo-phrenics healed and schizo-effectives I took a copy of Chapter 21 in pigs in the parlor. Okay have that In your counseling session You got pigs in the parlor copy that chapter 21. You've got to have it And then I took a copy of that chart there in the book Okay, and you got to go through this chart after They read this like 10 times You got to go through this chart like you're talking to a two year old And show them exactly what happened to him.   Yeah, okay. Well, let's see that's how that's where your lust demons are coming from you just point that out You show them the chart and you go over it real patiently They have to they need time to absorb it because in their head sometimes these Schizophrenia demons are talking to them while you're talking to them And they're going Don't wait for me help And they're talking in a different voice And a different person. It's spooky And then sometimes the demon will pop up. He's not doing that. Hey, I'm not talking to you. No, bob Bob yeah, mike. Okay. Now. Let's go back to this. See you got to be patient with it There's no there's no way to see him instantly delivered. We don't have that kind of anointing around here Have you found that those individuals just Just just bow out like most of them bow. Yeah, and again the problem is this demon here The spirit of rebellion If you get too close to him, he'll he'll pitch a fit Okay, and then somebody could you mind passing it out for me? Let me yeah, then I Signed a contract for $1,200 with a Local artist and he made this chart. It's really something else I go through how They got skits the schizophrenia demon. Okay Unless there's witchcraft and bowler somebody puts a spell on you You don't get the schizophrenia demon until later in life usually late teens early 20s You get all these demons right out the gate.   Yeah And then how's that the paranoid? How's that thing? That's the light in by these it's a fear demon They live in chronic fear All the time they're afraid everything with those type of demons a little type of issues Harden actually or become paranoid Is that right? Well, yeah paranoid is in in you know levels, but I'm talking about the schizophrenia level of Fear demons those are those are very powerful yeah anybody can have anxiety disorder or Paranoia and we see those healed all the time Those are pretty easy to heal Yeah, so you go through this list with them There's a rejection demon he got in first And then he opened the door To these other ones that came in And usually it's fear lust Lying spirit and the spirit of infirmity. That's what that's the one you're going to face most often While you're doing your deliverances. Okay, so What she just said is telling me that god is preparing her For this kind of ministry because he keeps sending her schizophrenia. So that's a red flag The holy ghost trying to get her ready to go See that Praise god Yeah, because not everybody can do this kind of Ministry, okay, but we're going to be getting a lot more of them in here And the demons will talk to them in their head while you're trying to help them You know, it's frustrating what they're trying to do is distract them. It's like ringing a bell or something Don't listen to him.  Did you get one of these?  You're doing that wrong. Is that possible? Is it possible? Yeah, that's a critical spirit. That's a different demon. Yeah, they could have that spirit But not every one of them have it Is A person with a schizophrenia personality. Could they also be a narcissism? Is that not usually no No, narcissists or don't have schizophrenia. They don't they don't hear voices They're they're sicker than that Now See that they're always trying to get the person to live out of their emotions You're trying to get them to live out of the word of god and their spirit man See that And later on in life these demons take their mind completely. They don't know their loved ones. They don't know you They nothing they're gone Not necessarily no No It depends on the person's response if they're listening to you Most of it is based on the person's motivation. You know if the schizophrenia is Not gone to the point where they're totally out of their mind and they're able to receive truth You got a shot at getting them delivered if they're way over the ledge I'm probably not they're gone No, they they the demons lie to them a lot they tell them lies all the time about everything you god religion you know Two issues to close Some of these demons may lead in a religious spirit not all of them And some of them may let in this this one here This murder demon Okay, now for example the guy had aurora colorado years ago He goes into a movie theater one night with automatic weapons and starts mowing down everybody watching a movie. Remember that The colorado mass murder. He was schizophrenic And he had a murder Attachment these people are extremely dangerous They're the school killers mass murder They're capable of it if they don't have that There's no problem.  That's a punching bag in two seconds Not a schizophrenic not normally and It's not multiple personalities or There's a bunch of demons in their head They'll talk to him then they'll talk to each other They'll talk back and forth Usually why you're trying to help them Trying to be me. Don't listen to him. So they'll start up a conversation A lady comes to my office one day as I'll close with this then I'm sorry. I went over Get a copy of this out of your pigs in a parlor. Okay. Take a copy of this particularly you and Go ahead and go into your ministry You have to have enormous amount of patience to minister to schizophronyx. If you minister to borderlines, you've got to have an office with an exit door. I would not recommend you minister them alone. Two men ministry on borderlines, I say, is a minimum. You might want Steve to join you in case it gets really out of hand. Give Steve a call here. Come over. Schizophronyx normally will not beat you up. They might yell at you and give you a good cussing, but that's him manifesting. You touched on something close to a nerve. Now he flares up and he launches an attack at you. You don't take anything personal. Nothing under this is personal. One more thing on narcissism. I've noticed that they usually are like type A personalities, and they could be very successful people, very wealthy people, but you can't seem to appeal them at all. Well, it goes beyond that. Most of them have high IQs, and many of them are successful people. Chronic manipulators of everybody in their environment.   Professional. So we don't like narcissists around here. I refer all of them to Kelly. We don't like borderlines with rage issues manifesting. I send all those over to Rick. But we do take in schizophrenics, and we're going to start a new ministry for schizophrenics, and guess who's going to run it? That woman. Right there. All right. Let's pray. Father God, I had another great Saturday here, and I thank you for that. It's a privilege to be here on Saturdays and get all these questions. I did the best I could to share some things that you showed me over the years. I pray they bless somebody. Now, Lord, we want to go into our prayer service, and we want to see the Holy Spirit move. He's the most important person, not me. And so we're going to give Him this time to do what He wants, whatever He says. I'll go for it. I hope everyone will. Thank you, Lord Jesus. Amen. You're dismissed. I'll see you next month, the fourth Saturday of every month at noon. I'm right here for Deliverance Training Class. If you need prayer, please come down in the front. We've got a lot of good people here to pray with you.