Yeah Yeah, ma'am see the mansion Yeah, rev rev you my almost a word of prayer That's right here. We are reminded each day how Spectacular it is as a How amazing it is for us together? This hot and blistering summer day the other Son Let's us Articulation Allow us to be sensitive to each other Allow you a grace to cover us And particularly Cover this city in the wise council The deep Thank You Reverend McDowell at this time we'll begin the city council discussion with item one the quiet zone committee report Missy Gentry assistant city manager will open up for us. I think I know that that's why Present and I did take some liberty council Go ahead and schedule this I did not get that you wanted to dedicate at work session on hospitality tax They the committee had done such great work The work and we will be very What will make their work time sensitive? So I think I've seen the committee report. I know that they're Put something together and we can just give them some time to get through the report without questions. I think that would help them out as well Thank you all for inviting us here today My name is Brenda Kramer. I am the chairman of the quiet zone advisory committee my vice chair Patrick Terry will be presenting this afternoon and when he's finished if there are any questions I will be more than happy to For everyone I'd also like to recognize members of the committee who are here. There's been a lot of work done Thank you, thank you Brenda I want to thank council my neighbor councilwoman divine for letting us here Today to explain what we've done and to show that the city Can and should see the quiet zone. It's gonna make a real difference to the quality of life for all the residents At the outset before I begin, let me thank city staff particularly Missy Gentry We have done an incredible amount of work since we first started in November and Without city staffs dedication and time We wouldn't be where we are today and I know missy's not in here But I know missy and her team have done an incredible amount of work and want to thank them before you get started Train noise it's something everyone in this city hears trains unfortunately while an economic driver or something that Chris crossed the city, but also affect everyone's quality of life Under federal law trains must Now I repeat must Blow their train horn when they go across a public railroad crossing There are over 60 railroad crossings in the city And within half a mile of a train crossing when the horn blows it's a severe impact Most registers about 110 decibels that's equivalent to a jet engine if you're near a train horn There are over 60 neighborhoods in this city within half a mile of the train crossing As you can see and I think I don't need to explain this in great detail There are certain parts of the city that are more effective than others particularly around USC going up Parallel in Hardin Street, and then along 277 the greening circles on this map are half mile radius from every crossing in the city So how do we address something? How do we get to reduce or maybe in the future? Eliminate train horn noise in the city. There is a defined federal process called a quiet zone it's a embodied and encapsulated in the code of federal regulations that if we follow this process and Meet the requirements necessary We can create quiet zones throughout the city and in those quiet zones. There's no Requirement that the train blow its horn In fact unless there's an emergency on the train tracks or something in the discretion of the train conductor That is necessary to blow the horn. We won't hear train horns in those quiet zones And there are over 800 quiet zones in the country. There are five that have been established in South Carolina It's a well-known process. If we follow the steps of the city, we can and will create quiet zones I know that in 2003 when the city looked at this before there was concern that we'd go through the effort Make the infrastructure improvements and not be able to get quiet If we make the steps necessary, we can get quiet zones in the city Yeah, one in Spartanburg two in Rockhill and So what have we done? We've looked at how to create quiet zones in the city Our committee members along with city staff have gone to nearly every crossing in the city We know what's at each crossing where they are what work needs to be done what infrastructure improvements are necessary to Create quiet zones. We know how much it's going to cost We know the process for doing so if we were asked we could Working with city staff get quiet zones throughout the city We've developed a methodology for how do we implement quiet zones across the city? I'm gonna get it as I'm going to explain later Well, it would be nice to create one big quiet zone to the entire city Because of the federal regulations, that's impossible. We're gonna have to create multiple But we've developed a methodology that we think Shows where the city can and most effectively could spend its money to create quiet zones and a phase process To go from one quiet zone To what we believe are going to be 11 necessary in the city We did not evaluate projects like grade separation Such as the assembly street project that's been talked about. We've only focused on The existing railroad crossings and the railroad lines of the city as they are today I'm not going to bore you with the amount of work we've done, but we have met monthly We've inspected railroad crossings. We've developed a comprehensive We're developing a comprehensive report so that the city knows exactly where the railroad crossings are what they have and what steps are necessary We've developed working with the federal railway administration The railroads and other stakeholders the costs necessary and we know the process Once funding is identified to begin to begin implementing and adding the infrastructure improvements necessary to enact quiet zones So as I mentioned earlier, there are about 60 crossings in the city Under South Carolina law all that is required at a railroad crossing is the X crossbar That's what's known as a passive Some railroad crossings in the city have more but to be in a quiet zone Every crossing in that quiet zone must have active safety devices must have gates Let's have lights Let's have what's known as constant warning time. Let's have power out indicators There is a litany of statistical information that these make crossing safer So in addition to the quality of life for moving the noise We're asked what we would do in quiet zones is Improve the safety of each crossing in those zones In addition to these minimums active safety standards some not all but some crossings are going to require What are known as supplemental safety measures those might be medians those might be quad gates and some other engineering upgrades But as you're going to see the majority of cost is to get to these active crossing active safety crossing How to so what do we do? Let's show you on the screen a map Parallels Hardin Street and goes up past Bull Street towards the Northeast We've identified 11 quiet I said earlier why not just have one quiet Unfortunately under federal law Have a quiet zone. It must be on a railroad that's owned by one railroad. We have two railroads Must be contiguous and it must be half a mile long or longer Because of those restrictions you had to create 11 distinct proposed quiet One we're going to talk about There's new the Greek Village at USC run essentially downtown here of the by five point Parallels Hardin Street Goes up behind both the full screen development project up to Beltline Avenue. This is the Gadsden So our approach was to identify the highest impact now ideally we'd like to see all the quiet zones implemented We recognize that may be a challenge Certainly in one budget year that may be a challenge So we tried to identify a way to prioritize the quiet How did we do that? We looked at trying to develop a train horn disturbance calculator For any given railroad line. What's the average number of trains? What's the average population with half a mile within half a mile of each crossing and what's the funding necessary? What are the infrastructure upgrades necessary to create those quiet zones? And as you'll see Ranking the 11th project the Gadsden to Beltline project which encompasses 14 railroad crossings We're an estimated two million dollars and eliminate 61% of the transform the service I'll repeat that again two million dollars and eliminate 61% of the train horn disturbance and these numbers Estimated costs are based on other cities that have done quiet zones. They're based on information We've received from the Federal Railway Administration and information from the railways. These are well not exact These are firm numbers for about two million 61% the entire city we estimate about 13 million with the contingency but again Going on the next slide here the funding necessary to reduce the train horn disturbance No expenditure We're an expenditure about two million dollars Eliminated for an expenditure of about four million dollars seventy five percent of the train or train horn disturbances So the question that becomes how do you fund this project? Each quiet zone can be a standalone project projects are ones and assured They're not something we're gonna have to fit out the railroads do most most if not all of the work the city side work Other cities have used general funds capital funds funding variety of sources We should try and leverage other projects knowing that there's some limited section 130 funds from the state Unlikely we'll get federal funding State infrastructure bank projects. We're not gonna meet the minimum required for those and railroads historically Improvement, but it's a city where it's been $20. I said earlier Just so when we look at a crossing To your for the quiet zone you talked about gates lights. What is different that you have to add to it then like if I'm on Let's say Lawrence and Green Street. There's gates lights What what needs to be upgraded in those to make the criteria for? What's the difference? Point is So I'm in a quiet And so the amounts Patrick that like when you said the two million dollars for which that's why I want to him be able to get through this to But you were taking into account the individual things Or those 14 that would have been the project that y'all will in your next few slides recommend everything necessary And then they have the price is Mr.. Recommend for Say your question about for each particular crossing what would be necessary some need more things Right 14 crossing Which is the one that they feel will get the most That's the biggest bang for your buck in the whole So he's gonna get into that if you can so help me figure out Right zone cost versus you let's upset you why it costs So you see you see small numbers This you will know the city-wide cost would be how much to do You would you have a three of a four of them five Quiet All the crossing in a quiet have active safety measures We initially thought that Some are on the order of 25 to 30 million dollars And And they're feasible without waiting for large That's what we thought initially yeah, you guys a lot cheaper than that Okay Gaston the belt line project that we're recommending Barely touched by any assembly tree work Oh So what we recommend is that the council adopt our methodology and approach Proceed with an analysis of the gads to the belt line project Determine the first configuration and your point counseling recommend where the mediums Requests this year for construction documents Brenda's going to explain in more detail the process from here to actually Implementation costs and next year's budget discussion And this is a point for city staff deserve the ability to Roadway project and then finally as infrastructure projects occur around the city Leverage other In in your your research did you Take a look or find data that shows the increase or decrease of Auto act auto train accidents Where you have where the quiet zones exist? I'll take over for the Q&A now after off the hook So there have been some studies about safety within quiet zones. There have not been a lot They have shown that there is No Disadvantage to having a quiet zones when they have looked at crossings before and after the safety is Statistically about the same what you're really doing is you're you're trading off train horns for Gates and lights and technology the railroads would much rather use train horns But the federal railroad administration has determined that if you have gates and lights and certain types of technology the crossings are About the same as far as safety goes now what we've actually been looking at and this might be a little bit too technical But there's a calculator that the FRA provides that assigns a risk to every crossing And so what the committee has done is look at what the Calculated risk is for each corridor as it is without being in a quiet zone and then we have added supplementary safety measures at crossings to get the quiet zone risk index below the current Reason I ask I think we know that most people who try to beat the train Probably won't do it if they hear the Hear the whistle I assume that's where the medians come in So yes, and no, I think it's important to understand part of the reason that the cost is not as high as we expected is Because the federal railroad administration does not require supplementary safety measures at every crossing Only at some of them on the R line we'd be looking at maybe 50% need those supplemental measures The gates and lights are not now what will happen if somebody tries to beat the gates first of all It's illegal and it's highly dangerous and in that situation the train engineer will blow the porn Just like he does today an engineer always has the discretion to blow the horn if there is an emergency Somebody or something on the tracks or during some routine? rail operations So really nothing would change I always thought it was unfortunately locally you have to pay for Safety and beautification of training property Have you run across instances where? federal representatives The vibe all can get financial assistance We really local always having a better burden the burden falls substantially on the local authorities There's minimal federal money available. In fact, some of the federal grants will actually explicitly disallow quiet zone projects You know the railroad takes the point of view it's unfortunate But the railroad takes the point of view that horns are their preferred method of protecting the crossings They will participate at times when you're looking at a larger Border project with that is primarily safety oriented Those would be projects generally that don't already have gates Work like the assembly street project where there are grade separations being considered and road closings the railroads will often participate They're they're they're very happy to participate if the city wants to close roads my understanding is that City of Columbia would prefer not to close any roads and so the railroads are not going to be inclined to participate heavily And and it's unfortunate it really is but The way it is I mean the nice thing is that back in 2003 when the city looked at this before There really wasn't a defined process for this everybody was trying to figure out What do we have to do? What kinds of safety measures do we have to have if you do it? Well, you spend the money and then not get the quiet zone and the federal railroad administration has Pre-approved a lot of these safety measures things that that Patrick measured gates and So as long as we use this calculator we turn in the sheet of paper that says Here's what we want to do. We want you to bring all of our crossings up to this base standard We want to put medians at three crossings and quad gates at two crossings We're allowed to have the quiet zone railroads are required to know where and respect local quiet Yes Railroads are are willing to participate of Or if there are bigger projects Yeah, yeah once it's does once it's designated they're required So they did so they've been there is some We operate with that assumption I just It's really straightforward So we've actually the committee has done a lot of the preliminary work already if we had hired a consultant They would have done what we've done which is to identify the crossings and figure out what So at this point We are very close to being able to file what's called a notice of intent And that's what we'd like to work towards on the Beltline order that notice of intent picks off a 60-day comment period for the railroads SCDOT and the Federal Railroad It's 60 days to say yes, we're good with this. No, we're not. Have you thought about? adding a fence here instead of just a medium at that point the railroad will ask the city to sign a contract or construction and engineering We expect for that to cost for this first thing Less than two hundred thousand dollars probably closer to a hundred and fifty They do the formal concept of the railroad does this their engineers Provide the construction and engineering documents and at that point we'll have a final firm number And the city can decide okay $2 million thirty-five whatever Seek the funding we sign the contract and they do the work If medians or curb extensions or things like that need to be done my understanding A lot of that So as long as we fund it, they'll do anything exactly they would be happy for us Let me ask a devil's advocate question. So I mean ultimately it would benefit us to have the trains Obviously rerouted around the city, you know using that transfer station that they have back there behind What's that road anyway back there behind teller's place, you know, obviously moving it around Do you think there's any negative about us accepting? quiet zones in the meantime Still pushing them or is it just a step closer to get them to start to to move outside the Center city, you know, nobody nobody wants to spend money twice if they don't have having said that How many years has the city been wanting to move these rail lines money was allocated While I am completely supportive It was allocated some funding was allocated But never I think So Given that the process for moving say the R-line Hasn't started, you know, I looked at the timeline for the assembly street project Their timeline for completion We are Moving forward with quiet Now we'll provide substantial benefits while we wait And just just so that I can understand how many horns actually get Is it like every hundred yards, what do they do when they come through the noise in parts of town is horrific really horrific I Have personally counted inside my home more than a hundred glass of a horn in less than eight hours We're talking about 10 to 15 minutes of constant noise sometimes day and night Yeah, and if you think about it so the rule requires the horn to be blown In a particular pattern at every crossing If you're within a half mile of a crossing you're severely in a lot of cases people are within more than Within a half mile of more than one crossing. So a student at Benedict in the honors dorm is within a half mile of Crossings, there's 18 trains a day on that line 18 times 4 Means that they're hearing the noise from 70 to On an average day And as you move into that area where the noise is more heavily concentrated, you've got points of interest that are within a half mile of eight crossings If your child is playing at Olympia Park, you're within a half mile of 18 It's It's a ridiculous amount of noise there have been dozens of studies talking about The negative effects of exposure to that kind of noise and all of these lines have trains at night So now we're dealing with being awakened at night and sleep deprivation and all the health That Well, that's not a question I can personally answer I Think I think the Democratic nominee for the Senate is outside the shot of the free times It's live tweeting as we speak right here, but train our harpoonians over there. Just like just so you know First of all, this is great work. This is great work, and I think I'm seeing Usually the Two three times at a mile at least two times that You guys those 25,000 across We're certainly right squarely in the middle of that. I will say I appreciate the hard work The community's been here in here working hard the long and missing the rest of that really getting to the nuts and bolts of this And I really appreciate the um, the fact when we look at the zones that have been recommended there's a real focused effort to look at the The span of downtown Not a focus on Waverly stretching out to the north and essential It's it's smart and obviously It's results that we want so Approach of finding the 200 grand first to start the Engineering and then us wrapping our heads around how we come up with the rest If it's with an bonding authority, obviously there's some things in here that are a clear safety improvements That are not quite as unrelated, but it's a safety improvement Encoupling together that It's something we're gonna have to put our nose to the grindstone on The next few weeks, I would say Let's get on you guys got more enough to say grace over but let's let's figure out how we start Pulling together to bring us to some type of conclusion at least for the the phase the phase one But this has been excellent We'll be happy to answer any questions that at any time Thank you very much. Thank you Many did a great job out in the field as well Understand it. So thank you for working with them Mr. Mayor, we're going to move now into the original purpose of this work session was to Have the time to light it for you all to I Do that there's a couple of house keeps it matters because I want to kind of clear out the old and then make way for Beady to take these forward and the memo that we shared outline some of the Additional funding requests that we've received. I know there probably are others and you all have I Did not we can get copies if you all need certainly can um, and it was fairly Simple there were about four items that had come my way And so obviously I needed to bring those to y'all's attention, but I'm aware probably that you may have some other items that you want to put on the table so to avoid Tonight there being a lot of discussion on those lines. We're trying to give you a little time here today And then of course you can vote as you see fit this evening. There's an item On your agenda to take up any type of Funding request and then there's the carry forward requests that I think are already really We've attended to the girl scouts And the nca basketball tournament Funds those are not really anything you have to take up. We just wanted to bring that here So we were going to go ahead and move those funds forward Like the other carry forward she's done And then of course there was the committee recommendations that were held From july 17th the south carolina state fair and the u.s. Game caught club And so we were we were suggesting that maybe y'all give us a little direction on those items Some of them you might have to vote on tonight And then we can get into current policy procedure Changing any policy and procedures um in the grouping of organizations, I think there's been some hearing Suggested so we were trying to give time for all of that today. I wanted to start with the old item I'll go ahead and start it off unless you had something to present independently And we've got a copy of that The memo Once you're done on thursday, erica's printing it for you With additional funding requests on here on oakley unity festival the green viewing union at work and the national collegiate marching band competition Um, I support all four of those and obviously the carry forwards support I know we were supposed to talk a little bit more about state fair and the game caught club Um the game caught club. Is that a pastor grisa? Is that is that cpd or how? It is. I mean, that's really the mechanism that we can compare officers so that there's not that Traffic support again in football game I mean, obviously, I know you that's what i'm saying if we did it, that's what will happen That's much more efficiently Yeah, and obviously We have these requests and of course Try and get some type of fun fun keep some type of fun Why And we didn't we didn't I didn't I took no liberties with the amounts obviously Requested that doesn't mean that Well It's uh, uh, it missed it mr. Yeah, what's that? One of the things I think we One of the things that I think we need to Really be clear about is that there are new organizations that received h tax dollars last and where We're in excess of about a thousand programs speaking specifically to wonder I know And that was a seco de mayo festival We did five thousand dollars last year And of course it was good 50 percent Um, and I think that sort of discourages. I'm looking at these big ticketed these these big items here And you got a new organization A new organization that has a proven track record And it was cut 50 percent Um And I'm trying to discern whether or not our priorities our priorities are the categories that are listed here Is there a way Is there a way as we journey through this whole issue of hospitality taxes that there be some Additional funds a lot of the small organizations that's really making a difference Problem is all the organizations are in your district and your district takes up all the funding. Oh, well and good Oh, well and good Actually, did the committee appropriate that it did the council? I think it was a council It was an additional What was the name of the season? Seco de mayo. It was the language buzz. That's correct. Didi and I have talked a little bit about that And the thing that The larger issue for me is that we are appropriating appropriating monies everywhere. What about those small places Those small events those small vendors That's really making a difference for our city. That was one of the points Government down for the moving forward discussion. All right. Yes. All right grouping and So that's going to be a larger discussion. Yeah, we didn't have a larger philosophical discussion. All right I was gonna add that I know that part of the total is maybe cheering them so that because I know that when When groups come to us and say things like we were cut we were this and we were that we need to recognize that Someone is funded from council and then the committee does what they did last year. The committee did not cut this You know committee did what they did last year and with the amount of funds they have it's very hard for them to Open up the new organizations because I think it's price is but because of Historically the organizations that are there and the track record up the chart So I just think it's it's coming upon us to be cautious that we can look at how to fund these groups But it gives people mad at the committee and then say what committee did this and what committee did that That's not accurate when we go back and we add additional funds or we fund somebody outside of the process And then they do the process and we do an application and the committee doesn't fund them You know and we get mad at the committee. The committee did what they did last year and so The way we have that narrative because people in the community will say that That the committee is cut somebody or the committee is racist because they don't fund black organizations You know all that stuff and that's really not They haven't been cut. We just have any additional appropriations Right. Well in all fairness the majority of the people will come back to the same people year after year Historically you can go that's right. And that's one of the reasons why there's obviously something there I mean I think to me That's it. I Agreed with some of Mika's point, but I think If we I've always stuck with the original intent even respecting where they come from that The organizations should not Just live solely on these dollars Because of the mere fact that it's a distribution process and Nothing is guaranteed and I think if if unless Quite frankly some organizations tend to get less than they normally do then you can't bring in other If this is their only Bloodline and they won't survive They shouldn't expect to survive On this part of money and some of them I think we've been we've been very generous over the years But uh, I'd like to see us figure out a way to bring in new organizations. They don't have to come in first time Yeah, I mean Some organizations come in for the first time and they're getting a hundred thousand and some come in for the first time and don't get nothing So we've got to figure out a way to uh, to make that work Whether you come up with it with more criteria or you you streamline the criteria That's There is And Pattern after Essay about the city of women if you name parts of Honorary rename parts of New York after prominent women And the write-up is a lot more But I'm just being led by Rachel Hodges myself Rob away The partnership but anyway, there is a new idea. I'm gonna get proposal But It'll bring in so much more The recognizing I mean, I'm thinking other than honorary name is like sarah. There's living way or something like that We have very George washington's lady Yeah, well mentioned to your colleagues, I think it's a good idea if they Uh use ladies to For the naming of several That's meaningful Okay I want to throw in the mix too is is, you know, five points has Suffered quite a bit in the negative press And so forth and and one of the things that I think would be very beneficial is that we look at Funding their clean and safety like we do the other two entertainment districts and allowing them Can use the funding that they generate to do improvements Throughout which is finding investing more and Upgrading five points itself to be more attractive They've got a real solid plan And I think it's worth our discussion. Obviously, you know My first inclination was to you know, I think it'd be a three to five year plan You know with bringing in the various artists fixing up the alleyways much like we have on main street Where you can cut through because most people don't use next to Pet y'all music to cut through people don't use the alley over it By right aid to come through from parking that we provide Then get used because it's a sketchy and it's been that way for 30 years But they're willing to take on those projects and use their funding The idea would be is that we would fund their clean and safety, which is I think roughly 125 thousand dollars Right now at a hospitality, which would be equal to what the other entertainment districts are getting So we're actually talking about Two two trends of thought one for new Another of course for those applications And perhaps a resubmission not a resubmission, but an allocation Is that is that what we're talking about? Well, I guess today well Today specifically we have some specific requests some before us some to be before us that we'll have I think in terms of philosophy Yeah, I mean, I honestly I think we have a system that works well as constructed Yeah, if if we're trying to do what we're currently trying to do I think I think there are obviously some opportunities to think much broader much more strategic 20,000 feet, but also very granular grassroots Having us target some opportunities that I think actually What I don't want to necessarily be structured the way the county has it But I would like to see individual district representatives have a little more authority Your district's a little hankier. I mean because you get all downtown But meeting some of the more community In your district in thoughtful ways, I'd like to find ways to To kind of meet some of those needs In Daniel's position, I actually obviously has merit I think it's kind of exciting The idea To make a presentation as well And I think the way we eat this elephant is one bite at a time Let's deal with the request before us and whatever additional ones Including those those two Think of the mile if we need to Yeah, put that back on the table. I know Was there a question from Greenby? Was that 20 or 25? Well, I was trying to get 25 John And I had a round table of Off they were 20 But but I've obviously heard 25 that we can 20 is the limit today than that's No clear is pressing. It's like now. No, there's a It's Saturday and then obviously We still That's as we can only something in The pot for whatever perspective needs we have Coming. Yeah, I mean, I like the idea of Ramping up five months And maybe try to do something They're they're doing it more economically than the others But everybody has their own way of doing it The districts are the districts are the districts are all distinct the It should be shared by everybody because if you're in the old days the merchants cleaned out in front of the stores Nobody does that. They got hospitality money to do it um That's still the specific request At least something in the pot. How much pot do we have? This doesn't say that she's got a request but then say how much you have to come and let us have We have a number for you Yeah, is it a doable number where we're additional things After that after this is that yes, perhaps and and i'm through after this Will there be an opportunity because there is A project of Obviously if we if we leave something in the pot then that gives opportunity to come back You got something you got something if that's up to us how we act tonight. Um It's gonna be good Well that ends the discussion then We're also going through the the process of arts funding, you know throughout throughout the region Columbia's been helping us with the staff that process and I'm sure at the end of that day We're gonna have some Additional insights as as we could be and should be going there as well that that should help inform our larger Discussion at some point not directed But you want it Ms. Devine then mrs. Devine You have to get what was approved from the committee recommendations And I just say that I just caution us again because What's since to happen is it would be purple one or two folks the language was The person that they didn't get funded And then we go back and fund them which You know good, but what happens to the groups who Excepted what they were given and didn't come back and say, you know, I need more I need more and then we didn't look at it That's where we really get wrapped around the axle and then we get all kinds of folks once we Go to allocate the additional funds to be handful of groups going to get all these other people coming outside of Bicol's that what about me? What about me and every week we're looking at We can depend on how to request so in order to be fair and to do it if we're going to do One or two Well, uh, as mayor said a minute ago One columbia has been doing the amplify study of the arts and cultural part of our Community development not community development but our comprehensive And I met with margie ritz who is the consultant from texas last week after her presentation to a group at the cities club She she says that that we need to carefully look at our policies and going back to what tomita said she thinks that The council's habit of Thank you additional funds and giving them to special groups here there in yonder The process that we need to establish a funding process The one I like is going through the tiered groups that I haven't mentioned before That committee do this work and then uh council Either accept or change that but after that we don't allow anybody else to come in and Put in an additional request And if we have a surplus At the end of the year that goes back into the pot the committee to you It's it's We on council that are Creating problems not only for the administration of the eight stacks, but for the council ourselves because we allow We allow the The groups to come to us and we get extra money from Which we're all guilty of Yeah, so I guess In margies and all of this the problem I have with the tiered system that I have is when you look at it The expenses that aren't eligible How much we've been paying out already in those and we have to either if we're going to follow that What is the recourse and the accountability on it? Because you know, we're paying for Gift cards for people to give away, which is not an eligible. We're not supposed to pay for drinks Bullet paper things like that. We are reimbursing currently on that So we have to change the way we're allowing people to spend the money because it is it's not eligible rent office supplies, you know This administration So, you know, I mean and people's confusion of you know, you can Use for tourist related buildings, but that doesn't mean we can buy flags for Street signs and stuff like that, but we're reimbursing all this We have got to change if we're going to a different system And we need to have the mechanism that we can hold them accountable for and that's what that's what I'm concerned about This automatic no reimburse because we're already making mistakes that could come back on us Well, I think I work more at Some clarity Put it out there. What is available? What is not? I would like to see us give the tier model some serious discussion and then Make a decision Well, I meant well that too, but That's probably actually gonna be easier than if there's some other items that you'll want to vote on tonight Are you just gonna take them up tonight? I'm ready with or with with all the additional funding requests I mean, I actually All the categories Another might be some discussion around the ones in the middle, but We're gonna have we gotta help with with that kind of issues I am I mean, I'm fine with all all the items listed I mean if we want to if we want to do this and then take another fresh look however the process you guys agree with Start with a phase in five points Let's do that, but let's just try to make some commitment and lose someone in the bank because I will tell you we know us Things of things with things are going to pop up and it'd be nice to have Something to rely on there. I'm not sure about if I supported another cycle But those issues that we had before us obviously People listen to the sound of my voice right now. There's gonna be a fall of other stuff Every year we're doing it Now we obviously I I'd like us to do sit down with Like expo Can we can we I want us to sit I think you're right. If you remember Last year I was one of the dissenting votes I asked that we reconsidered that until there was appropriate conversation with uh with black expose to see whether or not Those those dollars were accountable. Yeah, one thing we need to do in both cases is Sit and talk with them one of the most meaningful discussions I've had brought us to today Let's talk with um Good job I had some very candid conversation For the sake of clarity in the whole under two issues. Am I right john? In some cases, I think that doesn't hurt to do that So let's let's kind of get those things off the table. Wouldn't you have ideas when when the amplifier be done? It's still a while, right? What she wanted to do was come back and talk to the council in november Yeah, she gave me she gave me a pretty serious briefing to uh last week. So, I mean I had to take that forward in the form of process going forward She likes the fear system and I understand Daniel's So can we get can we get something put in there that resolves that issue? Let's see what let's see what she has Let's see what she knows that can help us We don't we don't make them reimburse it just I'm telling you When you look through that stuff you'll sit there you'll be shocked Guys I'm good. Hey, can we can we can we have a good just a good faith effort Take let's take up the items that are in BD's memo before us And I think unless unless there's some dissension Think of the miles out for a whole other year. So we're good. Yeah, I'm not no Not We'll take we'll just take them up Either in the affirmative or the negative. Yeah, we'll take them up with I think we need to make some Some agreement some consensus on on if we're going to do five points clean the safe Let's start fazing that in But but other than that, let's let's see if we can limit discussion to these tonight If I would The support and green view large amount and the less let's handle the rest perspective is to figure out what we're going to do I really like that. I can't wait to get that memo from great And two more things again, let's let's determine moving forward Again, the the the rigidity of flexibility that we're talking about in terms of reporting and making sure that we're funds are being spent on the right thing Let's have amplify help inform our process going forward. I really do think that A portion of funds, you know, it looks like We've got to make sure we we're all approving and voting on it But I think the district webs having some some ability to fit within their in the council districts to help Direct funding can help out prospectively That's just something that you go figure out what that looks like. I don't want to go to county council around it, but but that I think that that's Very Helpful and again, I think we're going to just have to be a lot more strategic And the funds I got at some additional thoughts and I'll say I'll just throw one out there Not that's not for consideration tonight. It's not in the memo But we are we're going to carve out a little bit of funding to do some I mean just inside The city inside our msa There's been a lot of funds marketing people outside of the city If it's legal to market to people inside the city because our greatest asset in that time the greatest liability is that we have a We can have a talk up the city and things that are happening here culturally amazing things happening here But we can talk it down because people just don't know Local local folks I mean, I mean a very strategic marketing campaign In the city so people in the city know what's going on in the city And this is just a thought we can start talking to ourselves a little bit We go 50 miles outside. Come on. Do we see some of the best billboards you've ever seen? Um But they're not in the city and that's just Folks in the city. We know what's happening too. So we can All right, everybody into our own megaphone Well one of the math is just thank you people. I mean these are I'm a little confused of what they're trying to do because this math Half these people didn't live in I mean they might have lived in new york. They weren't born there weren't formed there. I mean Mickey Minaj and you know You know, that's what gave her the inspiration for Lucy Lou and I mean Jacqueline on asses is not familiar. We're all working on mommy. Yes What you want to do? That's what gave her the idea. We're working on it now and we'll get some input But here's our memo of the memos or letters to me. But basically the concept is North Colombia Look at Women who are Look at women who contributed I like the concept of city and it wouldn't be renaming any things in particular, but it's reimagining the city and making an effort to Um And how does that fall into the H? Because it'll be part of international and the goal is to actually And This is very interesting. I shared the thought with y'all in the past. I'd love the idea of having more statues Of women in our city. I love that. I'd love to have Statue of Anarka Lucy and Betsy Look at the statue of jay mary and sims Three of his subjects that he operated on in the 1800s But you think about people just saw sarah leveratt. I mean being told jessa simpkins and Sarah may flamenon. I mean, they're they're more than the opportunity to find local women To highlight and recognize throughout the city. I think it's an exciting idea Will you sit local? Go on and live here or who made it who made a contribution And it also recognizes the state capitol too And recognizing we're the state capitol so if it's september park, I mean Somebody back her and yeah, I mean, I think that's an idea See Let me see a word Hopefully this is a word of conscience. I think this is absolutely wonderful I think that there's a greater issue in our city. I think there is a health pandemic that is not being talked about We are number eight We are number eight in the nation H for a hepatitis c And the age virus number eight There's not been a whole lot of conversation Because if any of these things these creative things are going to take place our city has And got to be healthy a healthy A healthy environment A healthy environment has a lot to do with the expansion And what takes place in this our city? Number eight and it was number 12 A year ago. It's number eight in columbia The hc virus And the hiv We've got to do something That's going to impact Our city in such a way When we have things that are very important to our city I think it has to be sort of It has to be an effort That's going to impact it in such a way that Healthy lives Are going to improve within the confines of our city I bring that up primarily because that's a part of a proposal That I am thinking about And talking to some folk about There has to be some there has to be an alliance There has to be some collaboration remember We have not talked about this issue called health We talk about we've had summit Diabetes Cancer is on the rise Our young millennials are being taken We look at them one year and the next year they're dead because of the day c virus And the age virus We've got to do something We talked about the fast track cities thing I got an email from the state epidemiologist in the bell Right on point what you're talking about That's a part of the conversation we've had With her Epidemic Yeah, and she's a dehec I mean so it's one lead in charge Sit and try to support dehec and maybe get the message out But I don't believe that's our No, no, no, no, no. I'm not saying that that's our that that ought to be our footing There ought to be some information Available in each one of our community about the rise of hc and age look Diabetes same thing I got folk in this room right now who are diabetics and don't know it I got folk in this room perhaps who own the verge of amputation And don't know it Because the ace a1c is so darn high that's ultimately it's We suffer from Either misinformation or no information And I just think at some point i'm not saying I'm not saying uh daniel that the city has Anything other than getting the information out Bringing in a group of folk Who will be able to ask the question answer the question No, i'm not i'm not looking at no age tag money. He just was sidebar Let's get our minds off age tags for a few minutes. This this is this is a passionate issue not an age tag issue I think she's ready to talk And i'm a diabetic and i'm eating all this sugar Probably because I need to step aside and do something about it take a shot or something my my point. I'm sorry It's it's very critical This is not an age tag tax issue This is not an international It's an international women's issue. It's also a health issue that's going to impact Our our city with such a veracity That millennium millennium are going to die An older folk are going to suffer because of this health And damage as we trans as we transition back. I just send everyone the email from dr. Bell I'm talking about again this weekend Asking us to partner with the heck In some other on on particularly on std hiv issues not not hepatitis not hepsy But the 200 fast track cities now supporting what they're calling 90 90 That's correct provides details. The goal is that by 2020 90% of all people with hiv another status 90% of those diagnosed will receive sustained Antri antiretroviral therapy that 90% of those receiving The therapy will achieve viral suppression. That's good. I'm thinking that if you take that strategy We can we can we can stamp it out in the in the epidemic. That's that's This this thing. Yes, sir hc can be cured in 14 days Once upon a time when you were diagnosed with hc you died No question about it A new man on the market It's called her bone I mean get out of here No, so 14 days a person can be cured Hc 14 days, you know So it's it's we're going to use some my internally that the court about that as it relates to H-stacks funding we guys we okay, Teresa. What was the magic number on 475 Yeah, okay Miss uh Echo what it is saying, but just keep for us to keep in mind um, and Staff are going to talk to us about this at our retreat. But what I think, you know, we did a lot with indigent columbia and really have some What we need to do is look at how our budget and our funding priorities aligned with getting up to that desired state and then look at how do we Partner fun do other things to support those things But I say that this day that we're we're going to have to take a real hard look at you know We're not going to be able to do everything to everybody And we need to look at how do we fund certain things that help us So what that said is that When we look at our goals, we want to help And that means overall So we just need to that conversation in mind as we move into our retreat and then maybe we can Well, if everybody's putting their wish list out here for the 475,000, I want to ask for 35,000 for the state museum So they were cut from 48,000 to 15,035 and get them back to That's not I think I think we're gonna stick with the things that are on this list right now, but as you go forward and I don't give us the next meeting That's that you guys They were They were not cut, but I will say that And we got some amazing national coverage on that this year. Um, and I know the other cities because of the national coverage They're looking to So we need to look at And which one is that on It's in the same thing. Okay, I couldn't agree with you more on that And um, it's good So everybody has that the Yeah Uh If you haven't been to one you need to go We're talking about an additional request 115 uh committee recommendations That wouldn't be Well, that'd be great and then we could put 125 to five points That's 200 that leaves us with a little money in the bank. I love it It's a winner I think we ought to maybe get some numbers on that Well, you gave them over they were 5,000 for years and then they got into a construction You can they agreed not to do any Put it all into the capital and when they got out of the capital, they didn't go back to the hundred thousand dollars They knocked them down to about 10. No, I'm just saying I think it would be good to answer that question. I mean How do you do that? Okay, we're good. All right, so we will have I said we had uh, we have an agenda item for you tonight mayor if you want to Complete your So D. D a lot of what um, I think she still wants to talk through you kind of mentioned Good afternoon Thank you. Thank you. Um, I want to briefly discuss some of the things That you're already aware of which is our current process and policies But I wanted to specifically touch on some details of that and hopefully answer some of the questions Um and discussions that have came up in the past as well as discuss some things that um Internally staff wise that um, I'm working on that will help with some of the discussion as well and some of the expenditures So the first slide that I have is just the what we've discussed before the three methods that we currently have for hospitality tax grant allocations All allocations from hospitality tax and Must meet state law and the city guidelines as well And the use of hospitality tax and public use We have the three ways the council funded line item agencies. Those are the ones that are usually funded quarterly Because they meet those requirements Um, the applications are submitted annually Um, they're provided for city councilor D and screened by administrator of the eight tax tax funding program The committee does not consider or review the applications for line item agencies Um, the allocations are typically flat. They remain the same each year and they are approved by city council in the budget But all the line item agencies have a specific city connection Whether it be city and building maintenance contract up to keep of the buildings statutory relationship or city sponsored outreach or community enrichment Then we have the hospitality tax committee recommendations Established with the adoption of the H tax ordinance as a way for city council to equitably and efficiently evaluate requests for funding I have another packet too that I gave you guys that It lists all the questions on the application that covers some of the questions that you had all the data that we get from these groups that are applying um But we have groups from major we have our major neighborhood associations. We have arts and cultural We have festival and parades um We have sports All of these events are or projects are different in that Some are ongoing throughout the year some are seasonal Some are multi events and some are single events So when the committee looks at these applications, they look at all of these things and they look at Each one on an individual basis because they're they each have different aspects that the committee needs to consider Also, the current committee that we have has established Committee operating policies and procedures that they have in place There is a copy of that in the packet as well And since we're talking about the committee, um, there will be we do need to get some new committee members There are several are good many of our committee that their terms will expire So that needs to we need to address that soon and get some new people on the committee Um Some of the committees will some of the members will need to reapply I think it would be good to have Some on there that are already on there to have that history of what the eligible expenditure Chairs are and things like that Then we have the council allocations City council in recent year have made commitments to funding groups for special considerations Um, such as surplus which um, you guys just discussed Which only exists when revenues exceed budgeted projections and when allocations are not fully expended Allocations are one time and not added to annually allocations are considered All organizations project and events must meet the following requirements They must The organization or fiscal agent must have a nonprofit status with documentation from the south Carolina secretary state's office Or be exempt from federal income tax under section 501c 3 of the internal revenue code Must be in the city limits. It must promote the attraction of tourists in the city Council was determined as tourists to be anyone traveling from outside of the city limits Project event must be completed during the fiscal year in which they are funded It must be for eligible hospitality expenditures and compliance with the state code and city guidelines Pleaded application must be submitted for consideration by the committee and approval for council All materials submitted for h tax grant funding are subject to disclosure based on the freedom of information Organizations that are granted funding the disbursement requests carry the following conditions The city has the right to audit the organizations funding The recipient organizations are subject to ongoing evaluations by city staff and the goal of these evaluations Is to encourage self-sufficiency for each organization or program funded through the use of additional or alternative funding sources Grantees are required to include the city of colombia logo and the experience colombia south Carolina logo on all program project advertising marketing and promotional materials Sign statement of assurance accompanying award notification is required to distribute funds The city will encourage a mentorship program for organizations funded The city provides an online calendar as additional marketing for organizations funding Written requests are required for disbursement and they must include invoices For contracts verifying eligible expenditures consistent with the application budget And a list of their other sources of funding Quarterly allocations are made when applicable A portion of funding may be attained in advance backup must be submitted within 30 days after the event All requests for funding and or to carry forward funding must be received by may 30th or may be subject to penalty That's Kind of a breakdown of what our current process and policies are Um regarding some of the things that we talked about and moving forward I made a list Of the internal goals and enhancements Um the first one of course being just to get council's guidance and resolution of the policy and procedure amendments as we move forward um with eligible expenditures To prepare for the 2019 and 2020 year Um To merge the manual process to electronic utilizing the review and reporting portion of zoom grants A lot of it currently is done Manually when groups are funded they submit their request On their organizational letterhead And we look at what they've turned in on their application. We compare it to their budget Make sure the expenditures are eligible make sure that they have the appropriate backup invoices and receipts So we do all that or in the past it's everything was looked at as it came in with the electronic process And um going into this a little bit further down um We will when we send out an approval letter After council has approved an amount have them turn in When they turn in the application they turn in the budget for eligible expenditures After they they're approved an amount turn in a budget Of of what? Amount that they're going to expand rather than just what they requested And the eligible expenditures to have them turn in a budget now that they know what they were funded what these will go towards And it breaks it down into what the eligible expenditures are and doing that electronically would also help us Keep an eye on What? Areas those funds are going into? marketing advertising Operations who uses what rather than it being in a separate file for each one We would have that accountability online and have everything right there Help someone recommend. I know you mentioned the 990s With that with it being done that way we can immediately see Is this not when they request their funds is their 990 is it updated? Do we have all of that information? Rather than having to pull The paperwork for each one. We can still have their files, but we'll have also have that right there in front of us I just think it would streamline it a little bit better And with that also in the review portion of zoom grants when the committee reviews All of the data points that are in the application when they review it it would give them An opportunity to make their notes in each section What they're giving back to the community how much how their attendance was all those different data points that we currently have in place that would give them a better way to Record that as we go through and fund the organizations or recommend their funding Creating online workshops in addition to we currently hold public workshops, but also to have them available online so organizations can go and Do small workshops to see how they can do things on zoom grants or what it takes to apply for the application Um, it would be readily available instead of waiting for just the public workshops that we already have um Create pre application to screen applicants on the status for meaning eligibility requirements Currently that's in the application meaning when an organization applies for hospitality funding They start filling out the application. They find out they're not eligible. They've already Spent so much time entering their information have a pre-screen where it says if they're eligible or not And then they can if they are eligible they can forward With submitting the application and completing it and if they're not eligible They would not move forward with that process Um create a grant agreement to replace the statement of assurance which is Right now we have a statement of assurance in place that they signed and a copy of that is in the packet as well I'm replacing that with a grant agreement Just mainstreaming everything once they are funded that they sign that goes in their file Edit the award notification letter and preparation for the grant agreement to request the following the line item budget form which would be The budget after they received the expenditures or what they were approved for They resubmit the line item budget to follow with what they have to spend Implementation of their plan and timeline of their event All updated and requires forms such as the 990 And that will help too with any if any of that changes that they change We fund eligible expenditures. So if they they spend more On advertising and media that they spent that they were originally going to spend in entertainment They can still change that through zoom grants, but we would have it all right there that that's what they're changing Um As well as the timeline of their event at their event changes for some reason They would have to do that on zoom grants as well Mandatory grant administration training sessions Which would just help the organizations in submitting their Request and their receipts online Also wanted to look at moving up the timeline the organizations They base their budget on this and what they are funded so Possibly moving up the timeline Being able to discuss it when the budget's being discussed So that things aren't rushed and it streamlines a little bit better They're not funded and they're set to figure out They're not just one and a half So I think that helps The the training they're probably they're not just mandatory Right Also might want to consider is Making the the training at a time mandatory Because what I do find And this goes to I think some of the smaller groups or some of the newer groups Um Their frustrations when it comes to our council frustration that they don't get funded When you really look at the whole process They've done something wrong with their application They you know And you know, I just I feel like we run into Playing into the false narrative that there's some kind of discrimination happening because they're not funded when In reality when you fill back the layers, there's something that wasn't done correctly not for their fault But that they didn't know this was done or turned in or whatever So it might be useful Us to have just like, you know, there are a lot of branches things that you can apply for Unless you go through the information session training and have an opportunity to ask questions So we may want to consider that and see if Or trial basis to see if that helps with some of the issues that we Typically have I think people have false expectations They're going to get funded Elders, I agree to be a free stream Probably say a lot And making training and everything else a requirement It's not a bad idea at all. I think one of the problems we have is H-tax out of money and the community promotions out of money have gotten blurred over the years They don't have a community promotion But we have had we have And people got used to Getting funds out of that and they didn't care where it was coming from whether it was community promotions or whether it was H-tax And now they think everything can be funded through H-tax Which it can't Um And also moving the when we're when I was talking about the timeline It's a short time period. Um staff always I try to always review the applications. There's a we start accepting them and there's probably about a two month Time period to fill out the application Screen them as they come in for Helps me divine what you were speaking about make sure if they've done something wrong Even if they've been to a training workshop if they've done something wrong filled out something wrong There's anything any way that we can help them or You know just get it Right so that when the committee if they put something in the wrong spot or didn't understand it correctly We can have those in line before the committee reviews them But a lot of times we'll receive A good many of them on the last day and because of the way the timeline is now We have a short period of time where they're the ones we get at the last minute and having to screen those before we Meet with the committee and then the committee has to have time to review over 100 applications. So it's a very Short amount of time to get that done with so if we could possibly move up the timeline just a little bit that would just help A little bit more of that hopefully as well if we could do that I made a Anticipated timeline Just to kind of give you some guidance on what's done when and Of course this month the council resolution of the guidelines policies and procedures In october, I'd like to talk about the committee terms that are ending any openings that are available and moving forward With getting a committee in place so that when we do Get the new applications because once the committee is in place I I will need to get with them and train them on zoom grants how they review the applications and each aspect of that So I need some time to do that as well She advertised that She has advertised it. Um I think twice I need to verify that with her but She um, I need to get with her and see how many she has on file Do you need us to to endorse this calendar because I read read it here and see it there. I mean, I don't have an issue. I actually think this works for us This is enough time for you to Get your information. I'll get them back and Go through your different hopefully I only moved it up by um, usually the applications are due january 30th until The beginning of march Um, so I only moved that up. I just moved it up a month. Um That's gonna get them up I hope I hope it will be I'm anticipating it will be so it would be a you know, it would be a trial I definitely think it would help um if I've researched a little bit to see what other Um Counties are doing what their timeline is And it varies they're all around the same time. Um, the earliest one was starting at the beginning of december Um in november uh applications for h tax advisory committee Would be presented if we could Appoint some within that time Because december is when we'll be getting the application ready for the website so that it can be live january 1st So that month would also be crucial to having new members training them so that um When the applications start coming in they can they can review them as they come in It would just give them a jump start instead of They could just see them and then they can make their notes after the due date once all of them are in But it would also give them a chance just as they come in and With the final submission they could go ahead and start reviewing those. Do you want us to endorse this? So can we tonight Anybody have an objection to endorsing the calendar for 28 29? I think it's proposed. I just I just um, I'm just Um Yes, sir. I'm concerned that you have enough time given the number of applications that comes in Number one and then with new members Several new members this time That's enough time for them to get oriented Just ask if you're comfortable with that fine. But if you need more time Well I would love more time, but I think we're I think we're all tight on what falls where Getting it to counseling when the reviewing looking at the applications when I mean if we could get it Moved up sooner. That would be great. You got incredibly broad consensus I did want to touch on One more thing that I wanted to touch on the The eligible expenditures on the table So I've listed on here the next couple of slides Everything you guys are familiar with the state law and that's in the packet as well and Our policies and procedures as far as eligible expenditures. It's the same ones that are listed in our guidelines, but They're on the slides as well. I'm not going to go through each one because we've been through them before But we can go through them as we discuss them But they're there for you to look at in the printouts as well The things I did want to touch on as far as Some of the eligible expenditures were In the examples of possibly eligible expenditures where it says a portion of the salary employees That is a percentage of the marketing If they have a person that is doing their marketing Not giving it to another marketing company to do if they're doing their marketing They get a percentage of that and that's determined by the board So if they have an executive director And the executive director does the marketing She could take a portion. She could take a portion Right, but it cannot be She would have to do she or he would have to do a majority of that of the Marketing the management marketing and the management of marketing and not Giving that out it didn't be it has to be one or the other Operations most of our I mentioned earlier The different groups And most of those groups the arts arts and cultural being creates a festival things like that the majority of our groups use a marketing and advertising security entertainment, but I think one of the major questions was on The operations and the eligible expenditures that are within those operations So what I did I just looked at previous or past expenditures The ones who do use this and not all of the music The ones who do use it Eligible expenditures in the past That have went under this and this is what I would need your guidance if we want to Change any of these or be more specific. We would need your guidance on that but in the past payroll for For instance, anyone using the clean and safe Payroll for those for the people that do that Cell phones uniforms supplies that could be office supplies or supplies specifically for clean and safe gas We have street beautification vehicle service Vehicle insurance parking And In the past some Meals were covered for the crew who were doing that and I know we had spoke about gift cards before those were incentives for That program itself Those are things that were done in the past moving forward and if we want to be specific about what's eligible in those What we would need guidance on I think we got to be specific Because those aren't eligible I like some feedback about it, but she can go back and work with legal to give you A recommendation. I think we need a recommendation. I think it needs to be very tight I think there's been ones that are giving us the problem for most of the cleaning sake To me there should be some way that we can establish a contract Or the I'll say the vista gill and establish a contract with cleaning Saves that they will for a hundred and fifteen thousand dollars provide Free people that will keep the streets clean and that are having to go through all of the new shelf Whether or not they're buying Coca-colas or Other things and that's that's the one that gives you the most problem, isn't it? Yes, sir, and the grant agreement that I was speaking of earlier that would if we if we can come up with something and Go through legal that would be in the grant agreement and that is when when they are approved for funding That's what they would need to sign. That's where it would specify It would give the specifics of the expenditures Oh, I don't think the word get around is what you're looking for Well, I am looking for that I'm looking for a get around. I I think it is terrible that we have to They're going to provide that service in a specific area contract for a year and They should not have to look at the way they're doing it now I mean you say that but look how they're doing it now You got a group that's getting paid by a third party. We're paying one of the directors to Manage it a percentage of their salary goes to manage it But yet we're paying a management fee to that clean and safety We're giving them incentives of gift cards out of our hospitality money We're paying them for their toilet paper to their diet coax to whatever We're paying for the plan. I mean, but you also have that same group that's generating a revenue stream From things so when we talk about Money being allocated to help things. This is What I call an abuse of the of the hospitality money. So I think it does need to be defined I don't want to walk around. I want a distinct line item This is what your money is used for and if you don't use it and we audit it That way then when you're going to have to pay us back not out of our own hospitality money How do your operating budget there again the problem? Responding We have is with the clean and safe organization and if city center can contract with clean and safe to provide the services Then we shouldn't have to be licking at every invoice to see if they bought a coca-cola or our moon by I mean, let me let me ask the question just so not those two comments What's in this case? What is the difference between Someone being paid as a director and as a marketing I think if you use a portion to do marketing that makes I get that but we also at some point you have to look at it If an organization Is looking for assistance What is You know, what is there? You know, what are their other costs associated with it because it's consistently but they can afford to do 10 other things Then maybe their priorities not there. I don't know. I mean, there are a lot of factors in there Let's look at it in a different direction What if this is just theoretical so if anybody's listening This is just it's Howard that's speaking that this is just a theoretical. What if the city of columbia? contracted with abc street cleaning business And for $300,000 we tell them you're going to be cleaning main street the vista area and five points Would we require them to Bring us every little receipt of that $300,000 or wouldn't we contract with them for $300,000 and we just make sure Well, we certainly wouldn't be giving them gift cards I wish we certainly wouldn't have nerve Keep this moving y'all. We certainly would pay for plant plant liners and other things like that My point is is if folks are eligible to receive the money then it needs to be used correctly We are at fault partly because we've accepted these expenses Which puts other groups at a disadvantage who haven't been able to so we need to have a distinct guideline Everybody So moving forward if I could get something together of how the agreement would look and get some feedback from you guys through email Get something together get with legal We could do it that way Actually, we don't have to give anybody any money. We could actually use it ourselves Up with you on that The grant agreement We'd still need the receipts and then I didn't clarify that but we would still definitely need we always need the receipts and voices Um, so why don't y'all put something together and bring it back to us? I mean, I think if we can establish that correctly, I think we can incorporate that into the tier The other thing that I would say that I think is is that we ought to look at is is not even capital anymore but only doing advertising and other eligible expenses Because capital capital law to be raised internally. That's called skin in the game Well, we don't give 100 it is a big policy change But it'll if you look at it what it'll allow us to do it allow us to So I think it's something we ought to consider You also wouldn't have Nickelodeon I don't believe that and I'll give you an example why how are so douglas wilder took over as a mayor of richmond All right when he took over they the streets and everything were so bad that he said no more funding of arts and everything else Until these streets are fixed. You know what happened? Imagine this The private sector stepped in and funded arts They have one of the largest endowments in the most growing arts community and beautiful community there My point is we're not trying to cut off Anybody but just to say we're not going to have the capital is not true We have become an outlet because everybody knows there's 12 million dollars a year to get cut up One quick thing as well earlier we talked about the new organizations Just wanting to make a quick note The Cinco de Mayo was new to the committee this year and at the time that they came before the committee They had not had their event and had the numbers or anything yet when they made their Does anybody have any questions Cities see what they do specifically I Watching a building Okay, thank you And thank you all I know this is a little tedious, but All right, um for the executive session, I think we have an item we need to add so I'm not sure who's gonna read the um The motion Okay Just may I like to make a motion we're going to executive session for the receipt of legal advice of pending and threatened our potential claim on the section 30-4 that's 78 Of marks with mark mac wells versus city of columbia alan ruda versus columbia Sylvester bats versus columbia discussion and negotiations proposed purchase of property pursuant to 70 a to metro wastewater treatment receipt of legal advice related to Matters covered by attorney clamp privilege pursuant to 70 a to storm drain easements Northeast sewer service area transit laboratories Discussion of matters related to proposed location or expansion of services to encourage location or expansions of industry or other business If you went to 70 a to thinly part proposed parking incentive ordinance discussion of negotiations proposed contractual arrangement Pursuant to 70 a to lower richland satellite sewer agreement So we're subject to a second If you have a question I Yes I