In Memorial Day Ceremony at Mount Herzl, Israel's National Cemetery in Jerusalem for a small country where each generation has seen war, Memorial Day is a powerful, very solemn national moment for so many families, share in their grief, commemorate the now 24,213 men and women killed in the line of duty, the 4,255 civilian victims of terror. One to note, since last Memorial Day, one year ago, 33 Israelis were murdered in violent acts of terror that includes three sets of siblings, an 8-year-old, an 84-year-old. And whether simply living in Israel or serving in its more dangerous military roles, experience close up. So many of us, how the country's brightest and best sons and daughters, can sacrifice everything to serve and stand up for their home. These are live images here from Mount Herzl, here as again as we're going to be dipping into this ceremony throughout the hour. The country did come to a complete standstill already this morning for a two-minute, very riveting moment of silence as they do each year. So again, live images from the main national ceremony at the Mount Herzl National Cemetery.  So see the commencement here of this ceremony taking place in a relatively new area of Mount Herzl. This is a special memorial area set up primarily for victims of terror, something we've seen emerge in the last 20 years of this memorial. So as the ceremony begins, I want to just introduce our guest in the studio as well. He'll be discussing a lot more here throughout the hour. I'm joined in the studio by Jacob Lapin, joining me to discuss his military and strategic affairs analyst. For the Jewish News Syndicate, for the Miriam Institute, the Bagan Sadat Center. So we'll be discussing the issues in and around the country, of course, throughout this special. Again, these are live images, they're beginning with some songs and the official ceremony getting underway at the National Cemetery here. And again, joining the studio with Jacob Lapin here, who I just introduced a moment ago. This is always a lot to discuss in and around the country here. And Jacob, while we're waiting here, obviously, for some of the more substantial parts of the ceremony to begin, we'll tune in for them in and out throughout this hour, try to explain the power of what I consider a true memorial day in this country. And I don't mean to smirch anything that takes place in other countries, but it's not an abstraction here. This is something that's very tangible to the majority of the country that either serve in uniform or are close to those who do. You know, describe that at some point, what it's like just to be here on a moment like this. I think you really nailed it in terms of accuracy by saying that it's a memorial day like in no other country because nobody here is thinking about leisure, nobody here is thinking about shopping as you would possibly get in the equivalence of these days in other countries. Everybody here knows somebody who has fallen in their military service. Everybody here knows somebody who has been a victim of terrorism. And that intimacy and that immediacy makes this a day of utter mourning. Sometimes it's unbearable to be frank, to be here to see all of these tragedies recalled, but it's a necessary moment as much as it is unbearable. It's also necessary. And everybody just sort of gazes and looks and mourns and hugs these families. And the bereaved families, a lot of them say, and also the people who look after them year round in the defense ministry, some of these people that have had the opportunity and the privilege to speak to in recent days. For them every day is a kind of a memorial day. This is the day that the country comes together to wrap with love and support these families. And it's really also a day for us to express our recognition for the sacrifices that these people have made that really enable the country to be here. You know, it's really as simple as that ultimately. It does come down to that. And again, nothing abstract about this concept of serving the front lines and protecting and establishing even this country, depending on which area you're looking at. In history, we are going to go to our correspondent, Pierre Steckelbach, who's at the Kyrgyzheuul Cemetery in Tel Aviv here today. This is, I'd call it the other major military cemetery in the country. There are military cemeteries all over the country, but this is an especially large one outside of Tel Aviv here, and also the site here today of large gatherings and official ceremonies as well. Can you describe how the morning went? What took place there today? Just how large was the turnout? Well, David, really hundreds of people attended the ceremony here at the cemetery. We are talking about a cemetery with a military section that has more than 3,000 graves and bereaved families. It started to come in hours before the actual ceremony started at 11 o'clock. The graves were decorated with Israeli flags. Every grave had an Israeli flag on it, as well as flowers that friends and family brought. And every grave had a small white stool next to it so that friends and family can sit down. Next to their beloved ones graves during the ceremony. Well, David, the ceremony started just like any other of those many ceremonies we have seen throughout the country at 11 o'clock right after the nationwide siren. After that, a widow of a soldier who fell in the 73 war lit a torch that kind of started the ceremony. This one was attended by Israel's defense minister Yohav Galant. He spoke here and he was basically eulogizing those who fell in recent years, but we're not talking about only soldiers. And that was also what he emphasized. We're talking about all the members of the defense and security establishment. We're talking about police officers. We're talking about those who work in the intelligence apparatus. We're also talking about those working in prisons and, of course, soldiers as well. Now, Yohav Galant was one of those politicians who emphasized that he did not want these ceremonies to become politically political. He said that people should leave the politics outside of the cemeteries. That worked only to a certain extent. The ceremony went very smoothly. But there was one man in the front row who held up a poster saying the poster basically said that his brother fell in one of the wars and he did not fall for dictatorship but for democracy. Other than that, the ceremony went very smoothly. But in advance, there has been quite some protests against members of Knesset who wanted to speak at ceremonies who did not serve in the army themselves. One of them being also it among Benville, who was denied back then for being too radical. He spoke in Bersheva today, which was probably one of the most controversial ceremony held today in Israel. Here in the Kiryat-Shahouz Cemetery, the ceremony basically continued with people, representatives of municipalities from the area, laying down flower bouquets. Then we had the National Hymn, the Hatikva. And then we had soldiers shooting three shots of honor. Also, not only bereaved families took part in that ceremony today, but also lots of soldiers who were here with their units. Also, scouts and other Israeli youth organizations. So now the ceremony is over, but there is still here and there are some families who are sitting next to the graves of their loved ones. And this is, of course, a very somber and very sensitive day, especially for them, David. Thank you. Pia Stegelbach at the Kiryat-Shahouz Military Cemetery. He just got out of Tel Aviv, another major site for commemorations memorial. Today we're going to get back into Mount Herzl right now, the main national ceremony taking place again. We'll be dipping in and out of that this hour. This is happening live again on Memorial Day in Israel here. And this is the main national cemetery, the eyes of the nation on this site today. Let's listen in. At Avokat az-Zikaron, Yadligu-Tali'u will be liquid by Pali and Menachem Fischer, parents of Adva Fischer of Blessed Memory, who was killed on December 25th, 2003 by a suicide bomber. In the bus station near the Geha Junction 20 years ago, her parents have decided to set up the project at Vaz Haq, which alleviates the suffering of patients and carers in hospitals in order to have Adva's light continue to light the world. After Tattalu' Fiksteen by Rabbi Iyalkrim Chif, Rabbi IVF. Qadish will be recited by Mr. Benny Murad, the father of Tomer Murad of Blessed Memory. On Thursday evening, April 7th, 2022, a terrorist opened fire toward those who were sitting at the Ilkabar on Dizingof Street in Tel Aviv. Tomer was at the bar to meet friends, it was sitting with his childhood friend who was a Tamagini of Blessed Memory, the two of them were killed on site. Qadish will be recited by Mr. Benny Murad, the father of Tomer Murad of Blessed Memory, the two of them were killed on site. Qadish will be recited by Mr. Benny Murad, the father of Tomer Murad of Blessed Memory, the two of them were killed on site. Qadish will be recited by Mr. Benny Murad, the father of Tomer Murad of Blessed Memory, the two of them were killed on site. Qadish will be recited by Mr. Benny Murad, the father of Tomer Murad of Blessed Memory, the two of them were killed on site. Qadish will be recited by Mr. Benny Murad, the father of Tomer Murad of Blessed Memory, the two of them were killed on site. Qadish will be recited by Mr. Benny Murad, the father of Tomer Murad of Blessed Memory, the two of them were killed on site. Qadish will be recited by Mr. Benny Murad, the father of Tomer Murad of Blessed Memory, the two of them were killed on site. Qadish will be recited by Mr. Benny Murad, the father of Tomer Murad of Blessed Memory, the two of them were killed on site. Qadish will be recited by Mr. Benny Murad, the father of Tomer Murad of Blessed Memory, the two of them were killed on site. Qadish will be recited by Mr. Benny Murad, the father of Tomer Murad of Blessed Memory, the two of them were killed on site. Pairs of sisters and brothers, the beautiful and cherished, never parted in life or in death. And the many more victims who this year have joined the overly long list of victims, that heart-breaking list, on the walls of this memorial, which pulses with the heartbeats of an entire nation, paying the price for our sovereign liberty here on the soil of our homeland. I remember that we stood here last year, hoping and praying that the family of grief would grow no more. I remember, we all remember, that just one day later, at the end of Independence Day in Il-Ad, there was a brutal massacre which shocked us all. Since then, over the past year, Mikhail and I have been visiting and offering comfort at the bereaved homes of every single family that saw its world destroyed and joined the circle of grief all across the land, people of every faith, world view and lifestyle, veteran Israelis and immigrants, each family with its own story, each family with its own unbearable tragedy. Today I wish to tell you about two such encounters. One day apart, we visited two bereaved households where we met two mothers, so different and so similar, two women whose lives disintegrated in a moment, the first, Dvorah Pellei from Jerusalem, the mother of five-year-old Yaakov Yisrael and four-year-old Asher Oshi Menachem, who were the two tender boys who were murdered in a terror attack and they waited at a bus stop wearing their Shabbat finest on their way to a family celebration. Their father, Abraham, was seriously wounded in that attack. Dvorah Pellei, a woman of noble spirit, in the advanced stages of pregnancy welcomed us with her remaining children, radiating an extraordinary power, out of her terrible private grief, Dvorah strengthened our spirits. The following morning, in the Bedouin village of Khosnia in the Misgav Regional Council in the Galilee, I met Sa'ada Sawaed, mother of Buda police fighter Sergeant Asil Sawaed, who fell in a terror attack in Jerusalem. Through a broken heart and heavy tear, Sa'ada told me how through, out, Asil Sawaed, she hadn't slept. She had sat up every night. Afterwards. I met Sa'ada Sawaed, mother of Buda police fighter Sergeant Asil, who fell in a terror attack in Jerusalem. Through a broken heart and heavy tear, Sa'ada told me how throughout Asil Sawaed, she hadn't slept. She had sat up every night, waiting for her beloved son to return. And he did not return. This image of the two mothers, Dvorah and Sa'ada, is an image that tells the whole Israeli story. For them and their families and for each and every family, in Tel Aviv, in Elad, in Afagalim, in Kisra Smea, in Har Baracha, in Nabrah, in Kibbutz Genosaar, in Afrah, in Jerusalem, and in many other places, it is the same pain, the same fate, the same heroism that bears the same suffering. Each encounter with you, dear families, has been heartbreaking and reaffirming at once. Every time we enter to offer comfort and offer strength, we emerge strengthened. And every time I want to let out a loud and bitter cry for the pure and dear souls who went up to heaven in a whirlwind, and in the same breath, I want to cry out to the whole people in Israel that have stopped tearing ourselves apart from within, that have let us do everything to heal, to find solutions, to bridge the gulfs.  We have no way of giving you relief, but we must never less continue trying in every way. That is our duty. In this spirit, over the years, many changes have been made in relation to the treatment of the families of terror victims. I wish to thank all the institutions that have worked with you and alongside you, and still more can always be done. I believe, and I have said so explicitly to representatives of the families, that we must ensure that the voice of the families of terror victims be heard and taken into account when decisions are made about the most painful issues for each and every family in the various bodies, institutions, and forums. This refers, of course, also the situation of the many thousands, the victims of terror in body and soul, the injured who bear the scars of terrorism day by day, hour by hour. We must make assistance to them and their well-being our top priority as a society and as a state. On behalf of the people and on behalf of the State of Israel, I pray for the memory of the victims and for the health of those injured. And I hope that they and their families, and you and your families, also know moments of calm and joy. May the memories of the victims of terror attacks be preserved in our hearts and in the nation's hearts forevermore. I am honored to invite the Prime Minister, Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu, to address us. President of Israel, Mr. Yitzhak Herzog and his wife, Mikhail, Speaker of Knesset, Amir Okhana, President of the Supreme Court, Justice Esther Chayout and her husband, David, Minister of Finance, Minister of Labor, Minister of Welfare, Yaakov Margi, Chief General Staff, Lieutenant General Hatsi Halevi, Commissioner Kobi Shabtai, Chief of Israel Police, Head of ISA, Ronan Bar, Head of Mossad, David Barnea, Chief of Israel Prison Service, Commissioner Katy Perry, Commissioner of the National Fire and Rescue Authority, Chief Fire Officer Eyal Kaspy, Chairman of the World Zionist Organization, Yaakov Haguel, my dear friend, the head of the Organization for Victims of Terrorism, Mr. A. B. Moses, ambassadors, diplomatic representatives, distinguished guests, brothers and sisters, dear families. This is the second time within a week that I am here with you at Mount Herzl in this case in order to pay the due respect to the victims of terror attacks. Last week we laid a cornerstone for the commemoration site for terror victims, which will be built in a few years' time here on Mount Herzl. Our country is riddled with tombstones and memorial sites, more than any other country. We respect and honor the memory of those fallen probably more than other nations do. However, here something else will take place or will be built. Here will be a national memorial site because the deaths of the victims of terrorism has national meaning and significance. Our soldiers in arms fell protecting our country and the civilians wearing no uniform and not in arms fell because the enemy does not want us to be living here in our homeland. And I am proud of having the privilege to head governments that have decided to build this memorial hall for the victims for the IDF soldiers, fallen soldiers, which we have done. And now we will be building this hall in memory of the victims of terrorism on Mount Herzl, who is the visionary and almost the founder of this state. None of this would have happened. And you are also here because without you this would not have happened. And since we began establishing this state, the process of establishing this state 170 years ago, our enemies take every step in order to try and uproot us from our homeland. Yesterday and today, on the Memorial Day in Jerusalem and in Benjamin, we have seen a demonstration of this in two additional terror attacks. Every generation in turn faces the poison of incitement and the love of killing. Every generation in turn must be strong and face our enemies and deepen our roots in our homeland. Unlike our fragile existence in the small Yishuv, now our power is not something that we can take for granted. We are stronger and anyone who tries to hurt us will not remain standing. At the same time we also deepen our connection to the homeland. We will continue to build. We will continue to create. We will continue to plant. We will continue to add life. My brothers and sisters, when the lives of your loved ones were taken away by terrorists and murderers, animals, my heart cracks together with your pain. I understand the heavy price that you have paid, the price of the victim, of the fallen, and this void in your hearts. You, Israeli society as a whole, have lost amazing people, great souls, great souls, sometimes of small children, great souls who were an ongoing spring of giving, of sensitivity, of kindness. In Nivea Akov on Friday night a few weeks ago, some of those who managed to escape the terror attack came back in order to help those wounded and therefore hurt themselves. Instead of them saying kiddush, the Shabbat, prayer, we said kaddish, the morning prayer over them. They met citizens of other countries.  And of course, we have also lost three sets of siblings. The huge light that we have been given by them has penetrated every house, as Shalom Yeniv said in Har Bracha, the father of Halel and Yagel Yeniv who were murdered in Chawara. We are all brothers and sisters. We are all one family. The mother of Yaakov and Ushi, the small children, were so beautiful and were murdered in the attack in Ramot. Ask the thousands who came to comfort her during the Shiva to complete what is missing, using a good deed that will continue the memory of her children to respect and honor their parents, to do loving kindness, to learn Torah. Rabbi Leo D. from Ephrat had to bury day after day his two daughters, Maya and Rena, and his wife Lucy. And he spoke very clearly. The terror organizations, he said, are motivated by murder and they do not discriminate between those who live in Ephrat and those who live in Tel Aviv. They are willing to destroy our children's lives within a second. But we, we're the children of light. We fight the children of darkness and we will always win because the people of Israel are alive. I'm Israel Chai. In my office, I have added the pictures of these siblings, these young children, Yaakov and Ushi and the others. Yesterday, I had a delegation of congresspeople, American members of Congress and they asked me about the reactions, our extreme responses, the violence, the circle of violence and I showed them the picture on two pieces of wood, Ushi and Yaakov. And there was another picture. On the very day, the very hours when these terrorists murdered these pure children, one of our emergency service people took out a Turkish boy from the ruins of the earthquake in Turkey and those very minutes, those very hours, and that's exactly the difference between us because they have hatred in their hearts and if they could, they would kill us all. And yet we, we are motivated by life. And this mission requires us to fight back and that is the great difference that has come upon our nation. We are no longer helpless victims. We pay every so often with the anguish and suffering of families but we can overcome. We can be victorious. We have seen the human chain going to and from the funerals to strengthen the families. Many accompanied them waving Israeli flags in response to our enemies. We will never be broken by you. You will never be victorious. Our spirit is stronger than your barbarous actions. Great strength is shown by the injured as well and I wish them complete health. In recent weeks we have Sobnaja Peretz who was injured in a terror attack two years ago. He is in a wheelchair but he will not give up and a few days ago he underwent a complex surgery overseas and they say that there are already good results alleviating his pain, the pain in his legs. I hope you will be able to go back and walk. Dear families, the loving embrace of the nation wraps you in mutual responsibility which is the foundation of our existence. We are all brothers and sisters in the pain, in the grief but also in joy. Today, of all days, from her, from Mount Herzl, her brother celebrated his bar mitzvah at 13. As any family would do, Sur bears with him the memory of his older brothers and as we will do today, when the light, tonight when the light of the Independence Day torches will be lit, Sur will also say God in heaven. Sur Israel which means the rock of Israel, bless the people of Israel, the state of Israel so that the victims of the terror attacks will be part of it for generations to come. May their memories be a blessing. The bereaved family's address will be said by Mr. A. B. Moses, the head of the Organization for Victims of Terrorism. On Saturday night, April 11, 1987, a mouth of cocktail was thrown into the car that A. B.'s family was driving in. The car became a fire. He was injured and he managed to get his three children out and they went to hospital but off his wife, who was in the front seat, was not able to get out and she was burned in the car and three months later, his son Tal passed away in the hospital. Following this terrible tragedy, A. B. decided to dedicate his life to accompanying the families of terror victims. President of Israel, Ms. Litzchak Herzog and his wife Michal, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Sara and his wife Sara, Speaker of Knesset, Mr. Amir Ohana, President of the Supreme Court, Justice Esther Chayout and her partner, attorney David Chayout, bereaved families, citizens of Israel, distinguished guests. It's been a tough year. Terrorism smites us time after time and the victims of terrorism are buried. Their numbers soar and are now 4,255 victims. Of them, 740 are children and teens under the age of 18. Terror attacks have left 3,420 orphaned of them. 118 are orphaned having no parents left. 700 widows and widowers and 250 families that have suffered the loss of more than one member. Each year on this holy day, I tell myself, may next year, may no more victims be added to the list by next year. We are rest assured that the security and defense enterprise do everything in their power in order to counter the terrorism and we honor them for that and we thank them for that. In these difficult days, we must unite. We must unite even if we disagree. We must unite even if we realize that sometimes we do not agree. It is the right of every citizen to say their word and say their opinion and to demonstrate that we must all respect one another unconditionally. Our force, our strength, our ability is to overcome these disputes and to overcome and to embrace the bereaved families and those who are injured. Believe me, I know how important the embrace and the listening and the caring are at such hard times.  And there are no words to describe the grief that comes with her painful words. I think about her agony and I know how important it is for the people of Israel to embrace these families, not only on Memorial Day, but every single day. Before me, I see the noble image of Or Ishba, Ishqal, of Blessed Memory. His parents decided to donate his organs and have saved five people thanks to their donation. The D family lost two of her daughters, Rina and Maya. Several days later, unfortunately, they also buried their mother, Lucy. The D family, in a very noble step, also donated Lucy's organs and have saved many lives. And I remember the poem of Ibrahim Khalfi. First you cry and the words of this poem are like cuts in the flesh. And you get up and you sit. And you get up and you sit. And you know one single thing, that person will never return. Our beloved have gone and will not return. And yet, they are still with us. They are with us in the memory. They are with us in pictures that we see before our eyes every so often. Sometimes they make us smile and sometimes they make us cry. We in the organization that represents the victims of terrorism try to commemorate all the time we have placed the cornerstone for the building of a hall commemorating the victims of terrorism. Here on Mount Herzl, this hall will be built and families, students, soldiers and guests from overseas will be able to come here and to remember those who were killed simply because they were citizens of the state of Israel. The visitors will learn about the reality where terrorism accompanies the Jews from the dawn of time from the very beginning. But we are strong and we overcome and we remember. The building of this hall is like paying a debt of honor toward the victims of terrorism and their families. And I would like to thank the Israeli government, the Prime Minister, Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu and the Minister of Welfare, Mr. Yaakov Margi, the Minister of Labor, Mr. Joav Ben-Soul for their full agreement and for their collaboration in this step to build this hall is so significant and meaningful to us. Here this place will be built and we will make it into a center that will tell the very complex reality and story in which we live here in the state of Israel. This memorial hall will be filled with the words of poet Yehuda Amichai, a dangerous country where tombstones and memorials are everywhere like paper plates so that the memories will not fly away like pieces of paper. I undertake that we will do everything in order to commemorate the memory of our loved ones. We'll never forget them and I'll take this opportunity to tell you distinguished guests, new especially Mr. Prime Minister. It is time for the Israeli government to approve the Israeli government to resolution and to provide tools and resources to the organization for the victims in order for this organization to be able to support and help those who are victims of terror throughout the year and particularly in times when waves of terror are causing trauma and post trauma to emerge. I began with the hope that we all share the hope that we will make a dream of safe lives come true here in Israel and may God help us that we will be able to once again see the vision of this desire that these will be the very last victims. Brothers and sisters, bereaved families, I would like to extend to you a loving hug from me, from the organization of terror victims and from the entire people of Israel. May you find even a little comfort in your life. May the memories of our loved ones be blessed. You're watching the live ceremony here. This is Har Herzl, the main national military cemetery in Jerusalem. On the site of the main ceremony today on Israel's memorial day, just had the speeches by the president, by the Prime Minister, the head of the bereaved families, foundation as well. All powerful and moving moments here for the country to take in all these individuals so personally affected by the conflicts throughout the decades here. So there's a real personal touch behind all the words of our politicians and our family, our country at large here. Our correspondent and ultimate is there at her Herzl today. We were just starting to speak to you a little while ago before the president spoke here, took to the podium. You know, obviously it's an extremely charged day there at Mount Herzl. It's hard to even put into words the power that one feels, you know, being there as all these graves have a loved one visiting them today. It appeared to own and I'll bring in the current events to this thing that it stayed apolitical in that main ceremony there. We weren't sure. Of course, reminiscent of some of the heckling that took place against Prime Minister Bennett last year. A lot of speculation about what might take place today seemed to me to be apolitical so far. Is it not? Yeah, one small protest, a silent one against Prime Minister Netanyahu in this latter ceremony, David, but you're right, the earlier one went off without incident. Obviously relief to organizers. I think a relief to many people around the country who wanted this day at least to be a day of unity and coming together to remember Israel's fallen. And you're right, of course, year in, year out, the two ceremonies, now the two ceremonies. First of all, the main state ceremony, 11 o'clock local time, just about three hours ago, and then the one that we've just seen on our screens. Again, a ceremony dedicated not to fallen soldiers. Their place was in the morning, but to the victims of terror who have become very, very much a part in recent years of the commemoration of Israel's Memorial Day. But the reality, David, is the ceremonies are only one element of what happens on Mount Hurtzel today. And you touched on the other element, the visits to the ceremony into the graves. I think you can see around me to my and back of me the graves decorated with flowers and wreaths and other decorations. And again, in many cases being visited by individuals, by groups. And David, we've been speaking with people here and it's a mix. Of course, there are the bereaved families, people who have lost a loved one in Israel's wars. This is a military cemetery coming here to visit those graves. We've also seen not a small number of young people here as part of educational programs who in some cases have been given the name of a fallen soldier and have gone to find the grave. And in advance of this Yomazecharon, in advance of this Memorial Day, have had to go and read and learn about that person, learn about who he or she was and what it was that led to he or she falling in combat or in service. So an important part of an Israeli education, by the way, should also say a lot of foreign Jews. We hear English speaking and French speaking here. Foreign Jews who are here, you Jewish young people who are here in programs for a year, for less or for more. We're also coming here on this Yomazecharon and this Memorial Day to participate in this ultimate Israeli experience. And finally, David, just another anniversary, which I'm sure we will speak much more about in a few months, but is also part of this Yomazecharon of this Memorial Day. And back of me, these are the plots, David, of graves from the Yomkee poor war. We are now not only in the 75th anniversary of Israel's founding, we're also at the 50th anniversary of the Yomkee poor war, a traumatic moment for this country. We've been speaking with people who lost loved ones during that war. We'll bring some of those interviews later on over the course of the day. But again, another point to remember on this Yomazecharon and this Memorial Day. Thanks for giving us a picture of the situation on Her Herzl. And these are the various delegations laying the Memorial wreaths at the monument here to the fallen victims of terror. This is on Her Herzl again, the National Military Cemetery. There's the president of Israel as a Kurds dog laying the wreath for his office. Many government departments and different organizations coming up to pay honor on Israel's Memorial Day. While this is taking place, get and join the studio with Yaakov Lapin here. Look, one of the most chilling things Yaakov, and this is apparent if we look at the images here on the screen or look on Mount Herzl, there are empty sections, you know, close to the fresh graves. We see the plaques on the wall here, you know, this Memorial for Terror with empty space on them. In fact, there's some just behind the wreaths, you know, we can see now that there's room for more names. Look, this conflict is far from over around here. I think everyone knows that. There are active security threats everywhere. It's an army at war essentially, or at least deployed in conflict in a lot of ways. How does that translate into this? This isn't a memorial, it's an active moment of sort of appreciating what's taking place, and how you describe the extra infusion of energy that comes with something like that, the blank, the blank plots of the wall. It's a very chilling reminder that Israel continues to live on its sword and will continue to live on its sword for the foreseeable future. That is the harsh reality of our security situation and our existence in the Middle East. Israel has come a very long way in terms of its military, political, economic strength over the past 75 years, but the harsh reality of needing to fight every day for its security and its independence, that has remained a constant. And even though Israel is so much more powerful today than it was 75 years ago, we're going to continue to have to deal with very difficult images like this, and those are what those empty plots and the new plaque that you refer to remind us of, and of the need for us to steal ourselves for those moments unfortunately. We hear a lot of the talk about the term unity being thrown around here, certainly by the president, by really everyone, there was this really desperate plea, I think from all sides of the spectrum politically, from the top military leaders to keep these ceremonies focused on the fall and I think a large degree we've seen that, I know there have been minor incidents around some politicians around the country, but this call for unity, how critically important, from a security perspective right now, we saw the so-called strategic ambush of the next or what we could do next. A lot of people saying that the internal division is what's sparking this sort of appetite by our enemy to comment and push the issues even more. What does a day like today symbolize? Does it bring us back together in some way that unity is so important to focus on in the face of the enemy? Is that such a real danger in other words, the image of division? Yes, so the former chief of staff, Benny Gantz and a position member described this memorial day as the saddest memorial day that he has experienced because of the multiple incidents that we have seen across the country of politics coming in and disrupting this day of mourning, this used to be a day of consensus, the country was united by the consensus of mourning of bereavement. Unfortunately we have to concede that that is no longer the case today, anywhere near as what we want to see and I think it's also undeniable that Israel's enemies are being encouraged by these internal divisions on the contrary side of things it's very likely that Israel is more than capable of overcoming these divisions over time given enough time to do that and Israel's enemies also have a history of being overconfident in their strengths and in Israel's weakness that has happened many times in Israel's history and they've had rude awakenings so I think the picture is complex but there's no denying there's no way around acknowledging the fact that this memorial day is the most divided in Israel's short history. It's a painful reality but Yaakov thanks for being with us here we're approaching the end of our live coverage of this and some important issues there to analyze I appreciate you joining us in this Yaakov Lapin Here we are again watching the various delegations with the head of the Shabbat Internal Security Service laying a wreath for his department again the delegates now laying their memorial wreaths one after another this is a representative of foreign delegations as well as being the central and main ceremony today taking place on Mount Herzl the country's national military cemetery you're joining us again this is Israeli memorial day a very solemn occasion as it is every year in the country but leading as it does into Independence Day tonight at sundown 75 years will be certainly celebrated the juxtaposition of the sadness of today for now thanks for joining us here on Zoom in Imagine being able to see into the future What innovations will change the world as we know it Join us as we meet the people changing our planet Discover the inventions shaping tomorrow Israel Business Beat Sundays and Wednesdays 9.30 p.m. GMT I want to represent you very easily made out of rice we're making this dish called Tuk Boki the fast food and it's yummy the sauce is a very unique sauce it's called Kochajang we mix with a rice syrup and with hot peppers some of the food is very authentic, very spicy so for the starters and the kids keep that texture but with the different sauces use my soy sauce and then with the date syrup that they have in here 100% date syrup


Hello, and welcome to this presentation on the STM8S Value Line, a family of 8-bit multi-purpose microcontrollers addressing cost-sensitive applications. The STM8S series is part of ST's 10-year Product Longevity Commitment Program for STM32 and STM8 microcontrollers. The STM8S portfolio of mainstream MCUs is based on the STM8 Proprietary Core Architecture and Rich Peripheral Set. The STM8S Value Line is the entry-level series and is fully compatible with the other STM8S product lines. Addressing cost-sensitive markets, the STM8S Value Line features an STM8 core operating at 16 or 24 MHz, a flash memory of up to 64 kilobytes, a static RAM of up to 6 kilobytes, and a data EEPROM of 128 bytes. Let's go into more detail on the internal structure of these devices. Based on the STM8 Proprietary 8-bit core, the STM8S Value Line provides all that you require for entry-level applications in terms of memory, connectivity, and analog features, as well as timers, IOs, and system functions, and all this at a highly competitive price. The STM8S Value Line core operates at up to 24 MHz. It integrates a swim pin that connects to a single wired debugging interface module for fast on-chip programming and non-intrusive debugging, with no extra pin or extra interface setup required. The STM8S Value Line offers the essential connectivity interfaces, so allowing greater flexibility in the application design. Furthermore, it embeds a 10-bit analog-to-digital converter, so you can capture the real world in analog and just feed it directly to the microcontroller. On the memory side, the STM8S Value Line offers versions with 8, 32, or 64 kilobytes of flash memory, a RAM memory of up to 6 kilobytes, an EEPROM of 128 bytes, and a boot ROM to load switch-on routines. With this large offer of embedded memories, larger code sizes can be deployed by the designer. The STM8S Value Line also embeds a full set of timers, an internal and external clock control system, watchdogs, and auto wake-up unit. This reduces the bill of material while guaranteeing the robustness and stability of the design. The STM8S Value Line adds to the already extensive STM8S microcontroller portfolio. The different devices in this new line complement the existing families with upward and downward compatibility in terms of memory size and pin count. You can thus easily upgrade or downgrade your design within the same family at a minimum of cost. The STM8S Value Line is available with different packages, having from 20 to 48 pins, and now expanding to an 8-pin SO package to offer more possibilities. The STM8S Value Line targets large volume and cost-sensitive markets. Just to give a few examples, in the computer and peripheral market it is ideal for printers, headphones, or speakers. In the consumer market, electronic toys, e-bikes, and battery chargers can benefit from this device, and for house appliances, small items such as electric toothbrushes, coffee machines, and light dimmers, and white goods such as microwave ovens are possible uses. For only $7, you can get a complete Discovery Kit for the STM8S Value Line. The Discovery Kit is the quickest way to explore the STM8S Value Line with only a PC and USB cable. Delivered with a set of examples, you can program with codes up to 8 kilobytes. In addition, a free compiler is available, allowing development with no code size limit. Discover more about this kit at st.com slash stm8svldiscovery. Featuring a high-performance STM8 core, guaranteeing safe design at a reasonable cost, providing the widest choice of peripherals, the STM8S Value Line also comes with a full set of development tools, from low-cost debuggers up to high-end simulators. It's easy to develop on STM8 thanks to the many hardware tool offers. Discovery kits are ideal boards to start with for STM8MCUs, allowing full access to STM8 programming with a single connection to the development PC and at a very low cost of $7. Evaluation boards are more expensive, but they put the STM8 microcontroller among a full set of companionships matching the STM8 peripheral set, granting the ability to fully evaluate the MCU. Finally, our STLink v2 probe allows programming and debugging STM8MCUs connected to the probe via our single wire swim protocol. For software tools, ST provides a free STM8 configuration tool with user-friendly GUI, which helps developers significantly reduce development effort, time, and cost. As part of the STM CUBE initiative to reduce engineer's development cycle, ST offers STM8 CUBE MX, a user-friendly software tool that uses graphical wizards to configure STM8 microcontrollers. An STM8 microcontroller must be programmed, therefore an integrated development environment is required to compile and debug an application. STM8 users can choose from the portfolio of ST partners, like Cosmic, IAR, I-System, or Raisenance, or can simply use the STVD IDE available for free from ST. This free IDE can be easily complemented with the Cosmic-C compiler that is also completely free, whatever the STM8 MCU. Once the binary is built, the user can use programming software tools like our STVP or Flasher, for instance, accessing the STM8 either through a probe, such as STLink v2, or directly through the built-in STM8 bootloader feature. An IDE is used to debug an application, typically by setting breakpoints. While this debugging method is very efficient, it's not ideal when it's not recommended to stop the application. Like, for instance, a motor control application. In such cases, our STM Studio tool is very useful as it can monitor application variables without being intrusive at all. Developers' lives get better if they are provided with embedded software bricks to speed up their application development. ST proposes many of these bricks for the STM8. Among these bricks, our standard peripheral libraries include not only all the software drivers to benefit the STM8 peripheral set, but also a whole set of examples demonstrating how to use the STM8. Moreover, these libraries are created using rules ensuring good code quality. Get connected with our STM8. Of course, the first place to go is www.st.com.stm8 in order to find all ST information relative to this MCU family. If you're not sure about the exact STM8 to pick, you can use our MCU Finder application available on desktops, mobiles, and tablets, allowing you to explore the STM8 portfolio and identify the ideal MCU matching your needs. You can also meet with other developers and share ideas and tips on ST community, which includes an area dedicated to STM8. The STM8S value line is simple and smart. Discover more about the STM8S value line at www.st.com.stm8s. Thanks for your attention.


Hey Psych2Goers, welcome back. Have you ever had someone open up to you? Did you comfort them by saying something nice? This is especially true when someone feels a bit down. We try to comfort them with our words. You might offer some advice to your best friend to give them some perspective, but sometimes these comforting words don't help and in fact might hurt them more. So with that said, to avoid slipping, here are seven comforting words that are actually harmful and what you might want to do or say instead. 1. It's okay, you'll get over it. It's understandable that when someone is sad or hurt, we want them to feel better by talking about the future. Maybe you want them to know that they will move on and get over their feelings, but when someone is opening up to you, you can't just tell them they'll move on. According to clinical psychologist Dr. Friedman, telling a person to move on is counterproductive, since it will only suppress their feelings and never really process them. This would make them hold on to these negative emotions, which might come back in the future. Instead, try saying, you have the right to feel that way, or what you're feeling is valid. This way they're given the time and space to process those emotions. 2. There are people that are dying. Okay, maybe not exactly those words, but try not to diminish people's feelings. It's like saying other people have bigger problems. The intention is to let the person know that they're going to be fine, but this isn't the way to comfort someone. Of course, there will always be someone far worse off, but this doesn't make this person's feelings invalid. Saying this makes them think what they feel is less important. Improper even. They might feel bad for having those emotions and become fearful of opening up in the future, in case they're invalidated again. You could try saying, what can I do to help you? This could mean that you're open to giving them a hand when they need you to. 3. What you need to do is Giving advice isn't necessarily bad, but when someone is opening up to you, advice might make them think that they're not trying hard enough, or that the situation is their fault and that they're the problem. When we want a person to change their behavior, we don't tell them what to do, but help their motivation to truly change their behavior. So maybe let them decide on their own, because no one knows them better than themselves. 4. You know, I went through the same thing.  But this isn't comforting them. It's a way of avoiding a conversation with them and leads to minimizing their feelings. It also leads to toxic positivity and might prevent them from actually asking for help and dealing with their feelings, because you didn't need to. Telling them a similar story is taking the light away from them and preventing them from expressing their feelings. Everyone processes things differently. Try not to make it about yourself. 5. Everything happens for a reason In some instances, this might work, but not when a person is at the peak of their emotions. Hearing this would make them feel that what they went through made sense, but the reality is, it doesn't. At least not all the time. According to psychiatry professor Dr. Beltman, using this statement can encourage hope, but also creates excessive positivity. Positivity is a good attitude, but it should be used at appropriate times. Upsetting times can be confusing, but you could just say, I wish I had the right words to make it make sense, but I don't. Nonetheless, I'm here to listen. 6. Well, at least you have a job When we comfort other people, we try to take away their pain by highlighting good experiences in their life, but by doing this, you're minimizing a person's experience and invalidating their painful experiences, which might even make them feel like they're being ungrateful for the good stuff in life. Try saying, I don't know what to say, but you are very brave for opening up. 7. I know what you're going through Even if you think you know what that person is going through, the truth is, you don't. Grief and pain are common emotions. Everyone experiences that at some point, but people feel emotions to different degrees. The pain you felt when you lost your dog is not the same as another person losing their dog. So instead of saying, you know what they're going through, you could say, I could not imagine what you're going through right now, but I'm here to listen. This is an honest statement of acknowledging your lack of knowledge of their feelings, but a reassuring statement that you will be there for them despite this lack. In a concluding note, sometimes empathy is not what we say, but simply being present with them is enough. Sometimes this might just mean sitting in silence with them, or just going for a walk together. Whatever it is, just try to practice active listening. Do you want a video on active listening? If yes, comment below.


Here we are going to talk about the specific functions of forensic psychologist. Apart from the responsibilities of the forensic psychologist, as mentioned just in another slide, this is very important to know what could be the proper functions which are going to be performed by the forensic psychologist in different areas. They can work in police psychology, they can work in psychology of crime and delinquency, in victimology and victim services in legal psychology, but these are not the areas which they limit, but they can work beyond these areas. However, these are the main areas where you see that the forensic psychologists are being working. Talking about police psychology, many of you must know about police psychology, because they are very different kind of a profession in which they are working and there are many challenges. So at times, you need a forensic psychologist who helps in developing psychological profiles of serial offenders. Where we have such cases where they commit serious crimes, serial killers or a pattern of crime, their personality profiles should be developed. The purpose of this is that after profiling their personality profile, if a lot of people have a very typical personality profile, then we can probably build a consensus that if there is such a profile, then they can probably tend to commit any such crime in future. If we have criminals who are on the early stage, and are caught by small crimes, and if they are profiling, then it can be assumed that either they would be potential danger to society in future or they commit a small crime and then they are punished and released. They don't need to be watched. So police psychology developed a mechanism in which they collect the personality profiles of their wife. Then teaching and training is the police officer on how to deal with mentally ill individuals. This is another specialized thing which forensic psychologists do. And you see that there are many trainings of police officers in which they are taught the principles of psychology, in which they are told how to deal with people. Apart from this, they are also taught a lot of techniques for their personality grooming and enhancement. After a shooting incident, provide counseling to a police officer. Let's say there is a police officer. He has seen a very brutal kind of crime committed. He has seen some shooting or he has gone through such experiences which is very traumatizing for him. He himself also has a psychological help required to overcome that trauma which he has went through. Then psychology of crime and delinquency is another area where forensic psychologists pay their responsibilities. Conducting research on development of psychopathology. How do psychopathological behavior emerge? What can be the basis of a disease? What can be its theological factors? If we can prove that in a situation, if these are the factors, then that could be a potential risk. These can be determinants to lead towards a serious crime. Research on this is what forensic psychologists do. Then as a research policy advisor, they are concerned with legislators and government agencies to develop new strategies. Similarly, they develop different strategies for research which proves that in the future our society will be better than this and we will be able to get some help. Consulting with the school personnel for identifying youth which can be dangerous for the society. So if we can identify young children with such potential harms, we cannot profile their personality as a school psychologist who is doing abnormal behavior or seeing some warning signs in them. They should be treated from an early age. They should be under surveillance so that they don't face any problem in the society. For assessing the risk among the mentally ill and research to develop a psychological test for this purpose. Simultaneously, forensic psychologists who are coming with mental illness assess their risk as well and for their assessment, they develop different psychological tools because the psychometrics is also a specialized area of psychology where forensic psychologists have expertise and simultaneously, they develop tools on those constructs which can help them in the future Victimology and Victim Services Interviewing the person who is victim and witness of the crime is an important task which is being done by the forensic psychologists providing training to claim service providers on psychological reactions of criminal victimization for example, post-traumatic stress disorder. At times, this is very important that an individual who has faced brutal accidents and trauma can be traumatized by listening to them. As a situation, maybe forensic psychologists could be of help to provide them the counseling services and the individual victimized by this is definitely very important to do regular sessions so that they don't get flashbacks about the incident and they don't develop PTSD which is a long term which can be required for treatment. If initially counseling is given then the symptoms can be reduced before the PTSD is developed. Then providing education to service providers on impact of multiculturalism. Similarly, the impact of multiculturalism on training is also a professional forensic psychologist's job. Then next comes the legal psychology. Conduct evaluation of a child's custody and the child abuse. When the children's custody and the abuse of mal-treatment then studying them, talking to the child and assessing the situation is the responsibility and a very important role of forensic psychologists through community surveys and other research methods assist autonomy in jury selection. So they also help in the process of jury selection to autonomy by conducting research so that they can give some suggestions and then last but not the least to evaluate the defendant's competency to the strand trial. This is also the responsibility of a forensic psychologist.


Welcome to Spotlight Advanced. I'm Roger Bassick. And I'm Megan Nolette. Spotlight uses a special English method of broadcasting. It is easier for people to understand, no matter where in the world they live. It is 1936. An animal is walking behind bars in a zoo on the island of Tasmania. This animal is a strange one. It looks a little like a dog, but it has dark stripes running down its back, like a tiger. And it can open its mouth very wide, almost 80 degrees. Its tail is long and thin, with very little hair. The animal smells the floor behind the bars. Then it looks out at the people watching it. It is called a thylacine. Also known as a Tasmanian tiger. It has been named Benjamin. And it is the last of its kind. In several weeks, Benjamin will die. With his death, the Tasmanian tiger will become extinct. It will no longer exist anywhere on the earth. This would be the end of most animals. Once an animal goes extinct, there's usually no hope of bringing it back. But the Tasmanian tiger may be different. And today, scientists are working on a technology that once seemed impossible. They are hoping to bring the Tasmanian tiger back from extinction. Today's spotlight advanced is on the de-extinction of the Tasmanian tiger. The Tasmanian tiger is very important to the Australian island of Tasmania. It once lived all over the Australian continent. But around 3,000 years ago, the tigers began to die out there. By the 1800s, they were gone from most of Australia. Europeans began settling in Tasmania in 1825. By that time, there were only 5,000 Tasmanian tigers left. This animal was also special. It was a marsupial. Marsupials give birth to their young very early in life. Female marsupials have special bags of skin, or pouches, as part of their bodies. When a tiny marsupial is born, it lives in this pouch. The tiny baby is able to drink milk inside its mother's pouch and continue to grow. The baby can leave and return to its mother's pouch for months. The Tasmanian tiger was the largest meat-eating marsupial. Sadly, Europeans in Australia did not understand how special the Tasmanian tiger was. When they arrived in Tasmania, they thought the Tasmanian tiger might be dangerous.  They thought it might even hurt children, so they began hunting it. The government even paid money for Tasmanian tiger skins. When people understood that they had made a mistake, it was too late. By 1936, there was only one Tasmanian tiger left. Humans had hunted the Tasmanian tiger to extinction. But the Tasmanian tiger's memory is still very strong in Australia. Since its extinction, it has become a symbol of Tasmania. It is the official symbol of the Tasmanian state. It is even the symbol of the island's cricket team. This may be one reason why scientists are trying to bring this tiger back. It is important to Tasmanian identity. Andrew Pask is a scientist at the University of Melbourne. He is also the head of a laboratory called TIGGR. It is responsible for one attempt at bringing the Tasmanian tiger back. Pask spoke to Al Jazeera News about his reason for trying. I think there is nothing that nears the amazingness of the Tasmanian tiger. It was an amazing, beautiful marsupial. But humans viciously hunted it to extinction. We owe it to the tigers to spend the time and money to return them to their environment. It is a way to repair some of the wrongs we have done in the past. Pask's goals are very challenging. No one has ever brought an animal back from extinction before, though other attempts have been made. Pask's goal is to try a different method. His project will start with DNA taken from the remains of Tasmanian tigers. DNA is a special chemical found in most living things. Each individual animal has its own special DNA, but each kind of animal also has DNA that it shares with other animals that are the same kind. This is called the animal's genome. Using the Tasmanian tiger DNA, Pask hopes to find what its genome looked like. He also hopes to do the same for another animal called the fat-tailed dunnert. The fat-tailed dunnert is a mouse-like marsupial that eats meat like the Tasmanian tiger did. The dunnert has DNA that is a lot like the Tasmanian tigers. By comparing the two, Pask will be able to see where they are different, and he will try to change the DNA in the cell of a dunnert. If he succeeds, the cell will be the same as the Tasmanian tigers. From there, he will place the cell inside a dunnert egg, and that egg could grow into a baby Tasmanian tiger. For Pask and others like him, there are no negative signs to bringing back the Tasmanian tiger, and his project has gained millions of dollars from investors. But there are still many difficulties in the way. Other scientists have questions. Some argue that it is simply not possible. They argue that the dunnert's DNA is far too different from a Tasmanian tiger's to change. Some say that even if the project worked, it would not create a true Tasmanian tiger. Others believe that the project is troubling. Other kinds of animals in Tasmania are dying every day, but less money is going to help these animals than for an already extinct animal. They argue it makes more sense to help animals that are still alive, such as the Tasmanian devil. Others are not sure if a new Tasmanian tiger would be able to live without human help. Carol Freeman is an animal studies researcher at the University of Tasmania. She points out that the procedure involves animal experimentation, and she is afraid that these experiments will cause animal suffering. She spoke to Scientific American about her own concerns. The whole conversation is about bringing this animal back. But concern for the individual animals is not really talked about. Their suffering is not right for such an unsure result. It would be many years, if ever, that these Tasmanian tigers could have anything like the life they may have had in the wild. Even with these difficulties, Pask is positive his ideas will win out. He is sure that he can and should bring back the Tasmanian tiger. He even believes it could happen within the next 10 years. He spoke to the Cable News Network about what he hopes. Our final goal with this technology is to restore this animal to the wild. They had a very important part in nature, so our final hope is that you would be seeing them in Tasmania again one day. What do you think about Pask's project? Do you think it is possible? Do you think it is a good idea to bring an animal back from extinction? We want to hear your thoughts. You can leave a comment on our website or email us at spotlightenglish.com. You can also comment on Facebook at facebook.com.com. The writer and producer of this program was Dan Christman. The voices you heard were from the United States. All quotes were adapted for this program and voiced by Spotlight. You can listen to this program again and read it on the Internet at www.spotlightenglish.com. This program is called Hope for the Tasmanian Tiger. You can also get our programs delivered directly to your Android or Apple device through our free official Spotlight English app. We hope you can join us again for the next Spotlight program. Goodbye.


Record to the cloud. Okay, cool. We are recording. I know a reason I wanted to do the recording is is that for anybody else that may want to view it later We are ready So a lot of Jenkins world I spoke to Koske about trying to revitalize The special interest group which is near and dear to my heart And he recommended I reach out to the two of you. So we did that on getter and and here we are So I thought that we should at least like revisit focus areas Try to identify like why did this is a lot in the first place is the scope of this thing too narrow or too poorly defined and try to figure out ways to Revitalize it and get engagement going try to figure out strategies for like maintaining an agenda into the future so that we You know aren't scrambling on a month-by-month basis to try to figure out What we're going to talk about so I feel like I have the least amount of open-source experience managing communities, so I I'm excited to have your guys expertise here to help with that So I can start I can sort of just rattle off the existing focus areas as a launching point or do you guys have any ideas for Do we want to start from scratch and try to re-imagine what we think they should be or do we want to start with what's there and and try to iterate on that I Think the I Wanted I want to say start from scratch and just make it something new and fresh But then again, I don't know if that's the right way to do it because I think we have to identify What was previously done and why it fizzled out so it doesn't happen again, but that's just my take Hot so I Can speak to like the origin of the SIG at least so to Jenkins world to go so that'd be 2018 I guess Koske Sort of saw a talk that I gave a Jenkins world He saw some work that Austin what was doing with Jenkins Spock and there's sort of a bubbling I guess of Cool interesting projects in the community that are focused on how do people Author their their Jenkins files and how can we make that experience of doing pipeline development easier for folks? So the Jenkins template engine was one example Austin wit from from home away had developed a unit testing framework for pipelines called Jenkins Spock And then obviously Andrew Bayer was involved obviously declarative is Probably the primary and most commonly used framework for developing pipelines at this point as a Simple easy User interface for developing pipelines. So I think the general theme of this was really around developer experience For Jenkins pipeline is code in all the forms that that might involve so including things like How can we make static code analysis easier? And how can we make it easier for people to identify? Issues in their pipelines before they blow up in production Different tools that might make it easy it like basically how do we apply the same? Best practices from software development when we're building applications How do we take those principles and apply them to developing pipelines as code is sort of how I think about it I think that's a good place to start right there. So Hmm so talking about the engineering practices Coding tools stuff like that So here's the here's the thing I actually it was interesting I don't know if you guys you guys weren't in Lisbon and I gave a talk on pipeline What's going on with declarative and it was interesting for me because it was one of the more pointed Q&A sessions afterwards of people asking like when is this feature going to happen when is that happen and and also One several in particular like okay, what about developer tools what about testing a little bit debugging and that kind of thing and While I Mean I think there's a sort of a trade-off here on one side We want this to be a vibrant community want it to be people, you know making New things and means it's forward, but at the same point the more there's there's a there's also a counterbalance that of Do less in pipeline, right? Of like pipelines should be the glue not the not the workhorse right and I guess so the question that had is is Sort of like is more developer tooling really I mean it's what people are saying they want is that what they Really need and is that really where we want to go and they're not saying that let's not do it I'm more just like I want to kind of maybe Make sure that we're Working on the same assumptions, right Um what it would it make sense to say we need to define a charter Also am I coming in okay on my mic or is it sound like a robot you're fine. Okay to me. Okay. Okay, cool Yeah, I'm wondering maybe if a charter needs to be defined, but I think that should be more What you guys think Steven I saw you talking, but I didn't actually like hear you. I don't know if that was me or in general switching, okay Can you hear me now? Yes. Yeah Excellent. All right. Um, so yeah, I I think a charter might be I think seems maybe like a charter might be a little Overkill until we really know the the vision that we have like I I think that You're you're right on the right track Liam. We're like we want to make pipeline development Simple right your pipeline shouldn't if you can't build your application without your pipeline Your pipeline is probably doing too much right from a from a I don't know best practices perspective if a Purist about it. So it's really in my opinion about how do we make the abstractions? You know the right way so the pipeline development is simple So developer experience doesn't mean that we make it more complicated and we add a bunch of tools in there So that people can do more advanced things. It's more about How do we make it easier to do powerful things simply? like I Don't know. I'm trying to break out of my like JTE hat that I always have on my head But thinking of the Jenkins sampling engine is like it's an abstraction for making pipeline simple And how can we apply that with or without JTE like it's declarative right declarative took over So well because it it was a simple facade on top of a complex pipeline DSL So when I'm thinking developer experience, I'm thinking like how how can we make pipelines that scale easily? Don't require a a large technical barrier to entry to develop And how can we validate those simply defined pipelines in a way that you know if they're going to work before you actually run them? Right so that that gets a little bit into linting a little bit into unit testing um But I agree with you that that we don't want to like Add tooling in there for advanced parallelization when like that's really not Something that your pipeline should probably be responsible for and I mean like I kind of feel the same way about debugging I mean, I like if Like they're to me anyways philosophically I I'm I'm kind of I've pushed back against debugging because like well if you're doing declarative you really don't want to debug that and I mean, I don't know it's it's um It's also just it's the kind of problem that we could spend a lot of time On and I'm not sure that it's where the biggest Like as an example debugging is I'm sure that's where that's the biggest gain in experience like in positive experience, right? One of the things that I think is is critical is identifying When we think of a charter, right? I think we have to have a charter But the charter has to be defined that we know what the charter Problem is trying to solve but in order to know what problem we're trying to solve We also we need to know the person we're trying to solve the problem for so I'm wondering If it makes sense to before we do that start to create personas So we kind of know who our users are because if we have a new user That's never really used Jenkins They don't know what you know what they don't know like we have somebody that's sort of intermediate They may have used somebody else's they don't know what they don't know and if there's somebody advanced You know they may have an opinion But they're not looking at it from the new user or intermediate intermediate user I think that makes sense. I think along along those veins. There's also like scale personas Which is sort of how I think about it, you know the the needs of a person running a pipeline for an individual application Are different from like a central dev ops team that helps support CICD for multiple teams simultaneously right so From a debugging that's like your use case. So we have personas and we have use cases Okay That makes sense When I'm thinking about making pipelines easier.  I would love it more if it was in my IDE um right so little things like that like how do we How do we make it easier for people to figure out the right syntax without having to go to the pipeline? syntax tool and if the only or um, I know these are grandiose visions that are not easy to solve um, but I I've got to think that the same Implementation or design that led to jank and spock by inspecting the class files and pulling out the Being able to mock those things you should be able to use a similar style api to bubble up the the syntax of expected pipeline stuff um So I I don't want to get into solutioning in this meeting, but just thinking about when I'm sitting down to write a pipeline I don't want to have to have jankins open to figure out what the syntax is to do that necessarily Um, I know that I know we're not going to get into tooling. I know vs code has done some stuff around this May have some Nice little linting tools, but I don't think I think it's very rudimentary. It could be a lot better Yeah, I mean I so I I'm on a dev ops team as part of a huge company and I see all the common problems that people knew to jankins hit and it's things like That static code analysis could help with like you have a distributed build architecture And you you did a file exist, but you never unstashed or checked out any files Right, so sometimes that code's gonna work if you got lucky and it ran on the same node twice Other times it's not going to but like there's some common patterns that are detectable from a code standpoint That could lead to unreliable pipelines But the number of those those cases are probably not large enough to justify an entire Like static code analysis endeavor um There's some interesting stuff too with like jankins file runner like I know that project started up I don't know if it's still in development, but how can we How can we run mock pipelines locally without necessarily needing a real application to be testing against just to make sure that everything It's going to work as expected Like jankins spock got us to mock like mock unit testing Is there anything that can get us to integration testing without a full-fledged jankins instance um, well essentially jankins file runner jankins file runner is effectively a full-fledged instance right it is it's a jankins right so yeah But I but what you mean by that is by not speeding up a whole new server or whole new I don't know. I don't know where how you want to distinguish that but uh A long running jankins as opposed to a ephemeral one Yeah, that that's probably as close as as you can get right now given jankins current architecture um So maybe we just start with like our first couple meetings are Interviews with the community like Instead of the three of us trying to figure out who are all probably jankins experts sitting down and trying to figure out what the problems are It would be interesting to get people together and talk about like what are your challenges? That you're having and that the people you're working with are having It's sort of a hard problem because the people that are involved in the community are Probably not the people that are the newest at it right If you look at the total population of people using jankins and then the percentage of those involved in A special interest group. You probably have a not very representative sample of the actual user base um But yeah, I think we got a survey together That'd be interesting. I wonder how quickly turning the support For um right like hey fill out this survey and we're we get questions that are like I have this specific use case and this specific problem How can jankins make my use case easier? Yeah, we would probably need to tailor. I know in another community that I work on uh in We're when we do surveys for our sigs. We're extremely like we pour over The questions we're going to ask and think about it thoroughly To not turn it into a help desk thing or or a gripe fest But more to try to get meaningful data out of it and then you know use some analytics to cross-reference that data against other things So maybe that's something, you know, that's just a suggestion something we might be able to do Like if we got a survey together, we got together with maybe You know the the advocacy group and alissa and then had that survey go out and then Sort of see what we get back But we would need to as a team really decide what the questions are going to be If we went that route, I think it would be a good thing to do because it gets a pulse of the community But I totally see the other side of that Yeah Go ahead So maybe we're also scoping this too small like we're talking a lot about the pipeline authors experience Maybe we can also expand this to be the pipeline consumers experience Right. My role is frequently I build a pipeline that app teams use and I field a lot of questions from developers about their pipeline and it's always things like the pipeline's broken I'm like, well your unit test failed Like how can we make it easier as a consumer of the pipeline to understand exactly what went wrong and why? Um So if it becomes more a pipeline experience sig instead of just an authoring sig It gives us a couple more avenues of conversation and Features, that's why I think personas are going to be critical. I think they're going to help us drill down to What we're looking to solve based off of the persona. Yeah, I think I think definitely at least At least looking at what are Yeah, I think that the personas at least are are useful for for focusing our discussion Like who are what what what sort of thing are we? And sort of grouping the the kind of thing that we're going to work on Well, uh, if you got if you guys are okay with it one of the I'm going to take an action item Like I start drafting up between now, uh, I have another question But I'll say between now and our next meeting I'm going to create a new doc that I will link into the notes here at some point this weekend Where I'll start creating the personas Okay. Yeah, we can have a lot of stuff from other communities that I can use At least to get sort of the framework and it makes it a little easier to do Sure Stand on the shoulders of giant. Yeah. Yeah, right so Um speaking of of feedback from the community We have at least at least one and I'm pretty sure I've got a link to another one from a year ago Or from yeah from various ones of these uh, the Sort of pipeline discussions that happen at Jenkins world and we can talk about those some too those I will say did also turn into hey, I want this feature or hey, there's this bug a lot more than But um, at least in Um In lisbon the interesting thing that came out of that was the the same problem was actually we had like it was a bird of birds of feather Can move around thing and the same thing was brought up Two or three times it was like the same like one Issue and it's a long-standing issue with the the way that we do parameters, right? um Anyways point that was the thing that was funny about it was just that it that that each new group had basically started with that same thing so you get I think we have some things that we can address that are like, oh, hey, we want this one behavior to be different um But usually the what happens with those like for in this case with parameters that behaviors is the reason why it is the way this is so sent is buried under layers that we that in order to move it like It involves some really hard thinking about okay, what exactly can we do, right? um The same thing happened like people are people have asked for hey, I Like not the second most common, but the but certainly one of the top Top 10 is is hey, can we can we why don't we do a yaml pipeline? Why don't we do pipeline and yaml and I'm like that's great except for like Once you if you extend that like it sounds great on the on the surface, but then when you get into Actually dealing with what does that mean and where does that end up? the It goes to declare a little generator like a yaml parser, right? I don't think it'd be a big lift to take a yaml intake and Send it through the same abstract syntax tree I'm pretty sure I like dove through the declarative code and there's like It takes your groovy and there's a json output and a yaml output Uh json output. There's no yaml output right now um But it doesn't mean there couldn't be Yeah, that seems like a Forgive me for saying not complicated But like if we have a json output typing that to yaml shouldn't be right except for When you you go down a certain distance Uh, for instance when you get to steps are the steps in yaml are are they groovy? Like what is and and for those like Even discounting the script block like when you when you start working with them the the The step itself needs to be written Sort of groovy ish like we could kind of convert them to a certain point and maybe make the parameters But then once you get down to the parameters themselves, they're gonna have to be Groovy some degree of groovy at some point Yeah, you'll end up with some nasty thing where like the values of string that you parse through a groovy engine sharing the invocation of that thing uh Well, that's that's the kind of that that's that that's sort of like when it's like oh, this is great. This is great. Oh, oh, this is not great Oh, this got bad. This good. Yeah, and I love you talking about like how do we drastically reduce the scope like you want to yaml syntax Okay, but here's the subset of features that we can support to do that Right, if you want to have an array of steps that run inside a container image and execute some sort of script You could write that parser and like a day, right? It's just iterate over the yaml run docker.image.inside and then run a shell script um So the value of it is smaller, but for those that don't have complex pipelines it provides some value But um, okay, and I'm not saying we shouldn't do this, but like as an example, um Maven has supported attributes For year for a decade now, right? Nobody nobody uses it like everybody wanted it and nobody uses it It would make it would make all your maven files like Way more understandable way more easy to read nobody like it isn't it has never been never gained traction So are we going to document both? Like are we going to show are we are now going to start showing yaml for our pipeline too? And I'm not arguing against this. I'm like this is this is when you actually take this to Like, okay. Yes, I can write it in a day. Boom. There it is Like when you actually like take this to its logical conclusion, it gets a lot harder um and a lot more Like what is this supposed to look like? I agree. I think I have a pretty hard line depending on most things and my my take on this in general is like listen if you Just learn declarative like what what does yaml give you that you can't do it declarative? Right, like I don't know that I understand the actual value proposition Of yaml, especially when you start to look at like how easy it is to mess up indentation in yaml and Like then we have a whole other this is a such a loaded topic Right, but and I think we have that now as long as you're Go ahead go ahead as long as you're arguing as long as you're arguing Uh against yaml, I'll argue for it now just to say that you get all the schema you can do a whole bunch of things Easier, I mean like you get syntax highlighting for free and like I've heard all the arguments the other side of this too, so I think one of the things that uh, I know what i'm about to say will be extremely controversial Please forgive me. Uh, I think one of the welcoming facts to yaml is it they some people feel the The bar is a lot lower for entry to newcomers Then it would be to say learn You know declarative, you know groovy sort of Syntax so people like look at that and they say oh, I can understand yaml easier than I could if I have to go learn You know a job of a subset of you know groovy and and they're just like it's easier to do Drag and drop coding right I'm going to pivot a little bit like I think that In general the pipe like jankins does a fan and I use this analogy for the templing engine too is like It does a fantastic job documenting the oven like all the cool features and everything that is possible to do with it But it doesn't give you any recipes Right and I think jankin's x starts to go this route a little bit But maybe something we talk about is like You know, we can't tell you how to do your pipeline, but here's some common design patterns And how they're implemented in jankin's pipeline so that Yeah declarative might be intimidating to some newcomers But if they were to copy and paste like here's your git flow pipeline Just change these lines of code to match up to your tools And over time as you get familiar with it extend this to be what you need and give people a better starting point than just Like here's the syntax documentation That might be an avenue too Now I'll play devil's advocate on that Currently we have in in the jinkins.io site We have a node js example for a pipeline and one of the things I see in the getter channel More often than not at least especially the last week or two is people that cannot get that running And so now we like people like I found myself and a few others are answering these like node js questions on this pipeline because People don't understand how to use it. So I think if we do recipes, which I think is a great idea We have to make it as simplistic as possible including the environment to which it runs on So people understand this is what you're going to need to make this work Yeah, and if we accompany it with a docker file that spins up a jankin's preconfigured or something Um I used to teach programming and robotics to kids and over the summers in college when I was teaching if statements I would say if Quotes condition and you don't know how many times I went to a computer and they're like it's not running and it's because they literally typed if quotes condition So I I definitely that resonates with me that if we give them examples, they're going to be Our major source of support tickets um But yeah, like okay, so the the docker file to spin up an already integrated sample application with some some dummy reference architecture pipelines At least then we we can hope that as long as you have docker installed You're going to get the properly configured instance that has everything you need to run these examples Um, almost like catacoda scenarios Yeah Maybe that's what we need to do create some sort of No, like learning lateral, right? Yeah, there's club. There's cloudbees university, right like something similar on The open source side that's like here's a scenario. We're going to walk you through it In catacoda, you can spin up a jankin's instance as part of the environment for that Uh and embed it in the documentation site Uh There's overhead there and there's orchestration and it's it's not an easy lift But that might be another like learning opportunity for people One of the one of the first things I Sort of was looking at when I started Advocating with talking about jankin's and writing blog post was the the on ramp for new users Right, so this is this is the same kind of thing where it's like look How do we create an on ramp that isn't that that isn't, you know vertical?  So I think in the creation of personas you have to also Have Some type of handoff per persona so that way if you know somebody as is is that at the beginner I've never used jink and flight now have to or want to They need to have that the handoff to the next persona should also exist. So started that bridge Yeah, and that can look like I mean I don't want to be super corporate, but it's like here's a demo lab if you can complete the scenario You're an advanced user or you're a intermediate user So we give them like I don't know A self-paced take it if you want to test so that we can like point you in the right direction based upon what you already know Exactly and then there's a prerequisite. So you can't if somebody comes in and says I should be here They should you know, we have a prerequisite that says you shouldn't be here unless you've done this Yeah, I found that everyone either thinks they're a beginner or thinks they're an expert right no one No one is going to come to and say I'm in the middle of the road They're they're going to say I've never used Jenkins before or I know everything about Jenkins Um, I don't know there's an answer. I'm out of that statement, but that's my experience with Trying to get people to evaluate their readiness for different topics Okay, I I want to switch gears to ask a question something that I have on here Uh, one of the things I have meeting caves. Do we want to do weekly? Do we want to make it five weekly? Well, we could do this this time works for me every other week, but it's actually I think it would be The reverse of what we had there I would need to be one week shifted. I'm pretty sure So you would next week this time you would be able to make it and then following every other week after Is that correct? Yeah, that would be That would work for me. I'm For sure Stephen, what about you? Yeah I think that works for me. My schedule is like a roll of the dice given different client sites I meetings just pop up for me all the time. It's kind of hard to know for sure Um, I can try to be strict about I'm not accepting a meeting But if someone says you have to go meet with the cto of this government agency, I don't have much Well, I mean, I would be the other thing to do Here is just I mean I can push things around and say look, I'm this is important. We got to do this And we could meet weekly even if there isn't a lot to do like make the time and show up and then Like if there isn't a lot to talk about great or if you know, we don't have the ability to do things that I think part of where we Sort of fell off last time I can talk to like why things fell off It's just because because the meetings were far enough apart and we were trying to sort of Boil the ocean as it were so Yeah, we had a we had a lot of different things to look at and a long time between meetings so people sort of Ran off to do with it like you sort of like oh, I have to do this thing here. I have to like get distracted. So um I also think the meetings weren't very conversational like it was a lot of someone getting a presentation on something that they had done And not as much as talking about listening. So I think there's a space for that like maybe You know every third friday or something we try to bring in use cases for people to show off like examples that might be I don't know thought provoking But doing it every time before they just become something that's easy to skip because they'll just watch the the presentation later If it's an ongoing conversation, that's something you want to be present for to help guide Fair enough. I mean the Flip side of that is though at a certain point. It's like, well, when are we going to do this? Well, when we when we have time, right? um Yeah The perennial open source problem like A lot of people it's not a lot of time to to do them outside of our nine to five Okay, so for what i'm going to do just just to close that loop. I'm going to move Uh, the meeting I think we have set for weekly right now I'm going to leave it For next friday same time But then following that I will move it to a bi-weekly and then we can decide from there if that's You know, it's too long in between and And maybe we you know, we work in in getter I do think one of the first things that's going to be critical for us is the personas So if everybody's okay with the meeting cadence, I'll I'll go ahead and action that Yeah, that sounds good to me I'm looking at the existing SIG page that's available. It looks like you found as well Marquis and you've got the document open so somewhere here. We've got Meeting notes from the previous section. Yeah um, and uh, I guess the action item for me is to Uh, go dig up more of those Okay, I'm looking at the link right now The SIG and I think it says oh like one of the things I just noticed that popped out of me. Oh like to start, uh ML discussion. Is that a machine learning discussion? I have no idea That's awesome. Yeah, right Okay, so I think we have what we need between now and the next meeting What do you think? Yeah, I mean Yeah, we'll we'll get the documents sort of to go And the start talking about personas and then so next time we'll talk about the sort of cover some of the Anything interesting from those docs and then also sort of go over personas and see if we have a See what comes out Yep, I will again. I'll share that document out in the uh in the channel. Okay cool That makes sense. I'm gonna spend time thinking about You know in a perfect world what this writing a Jenkins pipeline looks like Like I think that that's really the problem. We're trying to solve here If forget about what's currently possible just like It in the nirvana state, how would you want this to work? And then figure out what's possible and how we compromise to that that end state So I think that sort of goes back to the charter idea that you were talking about marky is like Our charter is how do we make this as easy as possible? We make it as easy as possible but like in a perfect world how does this work? And I don't know that we have a consensus definition for what that actually means Yeah, but I I think when we do have that and it's defined and it's met with personas People will come in and they'll say oh, I'm like this person in your you know I see you guys put your charter out there and for sonas. I'm that person and I'd love to follow that track Yeah, that sounds yeah Yeah, uh, okay. So another thing I have what I've got another action item here. I got a right I'm gonna make another action item. I am going to I need to get this meeting cadence added to the calendar Um, I can I have access to yeah the the Jenkins calendar. You mean? Yeah, um, I have access to that so I can Oh I'll leave it to you then Uh, I mean if someone doesn't already if neither of you have it already then Make it simple and I can do that Okay that and one other thing we do. Oh, I I'm going to get a look I'm going to get two emails out. I will revitalize the email to our pipeline off sig saying Hey, this is what we're working on. We just met. Here's a link to the recording Here's our document of things we're going to work on I'm going to get that out to our sig emailing list as well as to the dev mail list Okay, cool. And that way we can see if it you know drums up excitement Okay, so Did I create this for myself? Or did The the thing on the yeah the thing on the calendar. I'm trying to remember Doesn't look like it. Ah, there you are. No, you made it. Got it Oh, yeah, this one I made Yep, that's what I Looks like you've already got it set to weekly But this one is not on the community calendar Oh Oh, right, right, right, right. Okay. Yeah, this is more of this one is my I'm like, but it's already here No, it's not on the calendar He already did it. What's that? Yeah, slow. Yeah, okay All right, so got it. Um, and I'll we'll keep using your zoom for now. That's okay. Yeah Yep, that's totally fine I mean, I think there's a we could also do it on the actually we should probably do it on the on the youtube CD Uh, so, uh, so here's the thing. I am Uh We can keep it. Uh, hold on just a second. I have to yell something. Yeah, julie Check into your flight sporting, sorry, uh We can leave this zoom Waiting for the finalization for me to be a youtube admin. I can upload this video to youtube Okay And then something I want to do later on down the line is uh, I will link the youtube and create automation So it'll automatically upload it every time because I don't that's what I do for another community because I do not like Have to manually upload things. I want it to happen. Just sort of Okay Okay doki, um All right, well then we'll leave it at this for now and we can yeah Cool. All right. Thank you All right. Um, you want to have anything else? Okay, so do have the meeting and uh, okay And I don't have anything else Cool. Thanks guys Thanks everyone. Have a great weekend everybody. I'll see you next week later Cheers