Olymp that is becoming so great and a very warm welcome, and a very warm welcome to our international audience who are joining online now, and just to make you aware we do have an online audience who are participating in this event as well. So if you feel the need to leave at any time be aware that the international audience may also see your comings and goons. So, ydw i'n fwy o'r ffordd o'r panell ar y cyfrifio. Rania Ae Al-Mashabh gydag yng Nghymru, Egyddiadol i'r Cyfrifio Egyddiadol. Rydym yn fawr am ymweld. Yrgyn Carl Zatler, ynghylch yn ymddiadol, ynghylch yn ymddiadol i'r Cyfrifio Egyddiadol i'r Cyfrifio Egyddiadol. Yn gwybod, Richard Baldwin, ymddiadol i'r Cyfrifio Egyddiadol i'r Cyfrifio Egyddiadol, i'r Cyfrifio Egyddiadol i'r Cyfrifio Egyddiadol i'r Cyfrifio Egyddiadol i'r Cyfrifio Egyddiadol, yn Swythsylion ac Faeson Gwyber Ffoson Hoenbo, G wyno i gynyddiadol i'r Cyfrifio Egyddiadol i Canoedd, i gynnaeth Iolol, oedd yn iawn i'r cyfnogi'r gyfrifio ffordd o'r Cyfrifio Egyddiadol i'r Cyfrifio Egyddiadol. Dyna ddim yn sicr gwnddiadol i'r c Report, i'r Llywyddias Nid, dwi'n gofau i fawr i'n fluffiannol. that it comes highly recommended. So, please go and do that. I won't talk for too long. Just wanted to say thank you to Klaus and Hilda and Sardia for giving me the opportunity to host this opening panel, which is incredibly important. I think, as Sadia described, that studied by the economists, I mean look they are economists, Ond ydych chi'n gweld ar ymdweud o'ch chi'n gweld ar ymdweud ar gyfer. Mae'r oedden nhw'n gwneud argyrchio. Ond rwy'n credu bod ydych chi'n gweld llawer a'r bydd ymdweud o'r ffysgau ar y cwestiynau? Rwy'n gweld â'r macroeg, y dyfodol yn gweld yn ogylcheddu, ond rwy'n credu ffasio'n gweld i gaf i gyrraedd, rwy'n gweld i gydig o'r ymdweud, mae gennym ni i ddysbu'r cyfnod wedi'u Chino ac ystod y Unedig, sy'n gallu o'r ffordd yn fawr o'r ffordd, o'r ffordd, o'r ffordd, o'r ffordd. Yn ymwneud, yma yw'r ysgrifennu hyn yn ymwneud, mae'n ei gilydd o'r ffordd. A ydych yn ymgyrch yng nghymru a'r ffordd o'r ffordd, a'r ysgrifennu sydd wedi'u bod yn ymdîch yw'r ysgrifennu o'r ysgrifennu yw'r ysgrifennu. Ond yn ymgyrch ac yn ymburdoedd gyrwch ar y mawr. Ond yn ymgyrch, mae'r cyfrwyr yn cyfrwyr sy'n cyfrwyr.. ..o gweld yn ymargrifio'r siaradau, yn cyfodd bwrw. Mae hyn yn ddechrau'r cyrwyr datblygu cyfwyr yn cyfrwyr cyfrwyr sy'n cyfrwyr yn cyfrwyr. Mae cyfrwyr yn cyfrwyr yn cyfrwyr. Mae gydig yn gwybod yn gwybod. five years ago when Beijing started lifting the price of workers, or the wages of workers. Even before Covid, he started to think about whether he should still get his goods manufactured in China. And so he began to move some of that manufacturing to Vietnam, to Bangladesh, to other low cost centres. An economy is made up of millions of decisions that are made every day that aggregate into a bigger story. And then of course we had Covid, and then that was a reason for him to move out of China completely. And then he got a cold call from someone who was going to set up a manufacturing plant in the southeast of England. I mean, the guy must be crazy, right? Why would you set up a manufacturing plant in the southeast of England with all the associated higher costs of manufacturing and so on? But then he explained that there weren't actually many people that were going to work there. It was primarily machines that were going to make the products, so he could bring down the costs. And so we talked about it, and I said to Mark, you know, this seems interesting, but the world has so far been about importing your product from the lowest cost centres and managing all the frictional elements that come with that, whether that's currency risk, whether that's the miles that your product has to travel, whether it's the fact that a customs officer may need a bribe to get your goods out of it, and so on and so forth, right? We know that there are many of those. And he said to me, look, I've shortened my supply chain. I've removed a lot of the currency risk. I have taken out the COVID-related risks going forward. A whole plethora of reasons why he was taking those decisions. So that to me seems like a de-globalisation story, but it's sort of a localisation of manufacturing and sale story. But I just wonder, is that typical of what is happening more broadly across the global economy? And Jürgen, if you don't mind, can I ask you, because we come into this panel with the assumption that globalisation has peaked, and for all of the reasons that everybody in this room has read about, we are now de-globalising. Is that actually true? In fact, I think it's not true. You just said that it's levelling out. And under this macro level, I think you can see many interesting things. You have mentioned China and the rising costs of labour. This will have an impact, but also now resilience, of course. And the diversification of your supply has an impact than the global transformation we have to do in terms of decarbonisation. We'll have an impact, for example, on the commodity markets. We see a strong shift in commodity supply. We see a little bit of decline in manufacturing, and we see an upward trend in services. So this is also a kind of restructuring of the global economy, but it's not just, you know, a blunt levelling out or decline. So that's important. So we've got a restructuring going on. So what currency are we going to globalise in going forward? Because, again, depending on what you read, we are de-dolarising. And China and Russia and some Middle Eastern countries want to move the global economy away from reliance on dollar trade settlement. So maybe let's ask Richard, our economist, is that true? Are we de-dolarising? And if so, what does that mean for the new trade paradigm? Yes, it's true. I'm an economist. Can I apologise for my earlier comments about economists?  I just got up late. It was the only thing left. No, so, you know, good luck with that. The dollar has been the vehicle currency in currency markets trading in the asset market and in the commodities market. For a very long time, and that network externalities, overlapping network externalities make it very difficult to move. Now the role of the dollar, you can see it year by year, is declining in terms of, for example, central bank reserves and things like that. But I don't know if it's out of line with the decline of the Western share of world GDP. In fact, it's probably declining less quickly than the Western share of world GDP. So in some sense, it's reflecting the rise of other places. But in terms of another currency taking over the role of the dollar, I think that's very, very hard. And I must say I've been at this business for 35 years and I've heard at least three or four major assaults. OK, it's over. The dollar's done. It's going to be the euro.  But I don't see the combination of trading goods, the foreign exchange markets and the deep capital markets being reproduced by any other currency. What do you see, though, because the experience of sanctions and the use of the dollar system against some countries has obviously made a lot of other countries rethink how they use the dollar in trade settlement. So we've agreed that we're adjusting. There are structural changes taking place. What do those changes imply, do you think, in terms of other currencies becoming more significant? So the way we think of it, there's a big push to remove the financial weaponisation of the dollar by creating some sort of backdoor or maybe some sort of cryptocurrency way of trading that avoids it. And we've seen with the sanctions against Russia, for instance, and Iran has led to trading in other currencies. But that, I don't think, is going to catch on and generalise. But I can very easily see, and a number of people have tried to do it, is to create this backdoor for high value. It would be expensive, but high value transactions that get out of the American banking system and therefore the weaponisation of the financial system. Small stuff. Small stuff so far, but it is happening. Minister, let me ask you, one of the other big stories that we've always, I think, tried to focus on is the direction of flow. North-south, south-north, but south-south now increasingly we understand is important. Bring us up to date, how strong are those flows and how is that changing north-south or south-north? OK, well I'm also another economist on this panel. Let me say that there are certain common challenges which create common denominators for countries. Be it in the north or the south, but more so in the south. For instance, there's an SDG goal by 2030 that many countries wanted to achieve, and this is a growth summit. So in these SDGs you had no poverty, no hunger, quality of jobs, and we heard from Sadia how technology might create displacement and therefore skills. So there's a financing gap for the SDGs. There's a climate challenge, which also, as much as there's discrepancy between the north and the south on that, there are common goals.  So in this environment, there's a need to be very fast in order to adapt and also to create resilience. And that's where sharing experiences under south-south cooperation become extremely important. Because there are countries that have created programs and projects with certain strategies that can be very easily replicated in order to create the momentum for sustainable growth, to be able to close the gaps when it comes to the SDG goals, to be able to face not de-globalisation but the restructuring that is taking place. Your example of Mark, this is localisation, but also localisation has a flavour of globalisation because countries need to see where the comparative advantage is, and that's how you're able to invite more investment either from your private sector or also to create the jobs which are most needed. Emerging markets, Africa, huge youth numbers need for more jobs, and therefore this concept of south-south cooperation and then north-south, where we also see with different multilateral development banks of IFIs, the programmes that have worked in one place can also be moved into or replicated. And this is the whole concept out of COP 27 with the scaling of projects, with moving to see what has worked with renewables, mitigation projects, adaptation projects, so the actual operationalisation of attracting flows and attracting private sector investments in key objectives such as climate change particularly. And if I could follow up, one of the headline stories we were reporting on this morning was obviously First Republic Bank, and the banking story has been a significant story and event that has us, again, worried about growth going forward. Lending and financing are incredibly important to trade flow and the continued south-south story. What progress is being made? What concerns might you have about that progress being stalled by what's happening elsewhere in the financial plumbing? When we talk about globalisation, the globalisation, I think what we're seeing today is that we are more coupled than ever before. And if we take a look at the macro backdrop, it's a very tough macro backdrop. High interest rates globally, the risks related to a recession, no recession, but definitely a slowdown and a massive slowdown. The number of successive shocks one after the other, so it's this poly shocks or poly crises, has its way. So, I mean, we just as emerging markets came out of COVID, you know, starting the recovery hit by price shocks related to food energy on the back of the war. Now this risk of financial stability and just coming out of the spring meetings in Washington. Again, a very important message on what central banks should do this trade off between financial stability versus inflation and growth. So these are real questions.  I think the concerns are way more now and we have to work through these concerns to create prospects. Otherwise it's going to be very difficult and I think the unraveling of the systemic outcomes or systemic risks of the banking situation is yet to be seen. Hopefully not too big, but again, I think there's yet numbers on how much this will cost and how much it will have a ripple effect on other banks. Gilbert, we've just seen hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of workers around the world spend a day marking that day by the fact that their household income has declined. Their wages are not keeping up with inflation and as they see growth slow in their economies, they fear for their jobs. The report that's been released here has very sobering numbers about the likely loss of jobs going forward for a number of reasons, some to do with technology, but a lot to do with growth. Tell us a little bit more about what changes you see unfolding at this time and whether you are optimistic or pessimistic about the globalization story. Unfortunately, I'm always a very optimistic guy and sadly I'm not an economist. But if you allow me to quickly bounce on the earlier discussion, I think the trend we're seeing in the globalization, I will tend to really to agree with Yorgen that I will not expect anything to just go down the drain. Yes, it is stagnating and that stagnation started, let's recall, since the 2008-2009 financial crisis. So it's not even, it's not COVID on that. But it is the transformation that we are seeing happening with the near shoring and the French shoring and the relocalisation of manufacturing, both manufacturing and services. One will expect that to continue. But if I take the example, a very good example that you're giving, yes, AI, yes, technology will change it. I just came from the G7 Labour Minister's meeting in Kurashiki in Japan and we visited Mitsubishi plant there where you have about 1,600 workers and 1,000 robots. In the whole production. So we're getting almost to very soon 50-50 on that back to your point that you're making. But the real point that I'm making in terms of the new trend of globalization, you have to count on the fact that the countries from the south or the law of emerging economy, clearly they want to, they will be also turning the page of just exporting raw materials. So the whole value chain will also have to happen in their countries. And therefore, though you may want to regionalise the supply chain and French shoring, you still have to build that into consideration, which is one. Secondly, which is quite, I believe, very positive, is the fact that the use of artificial intelligence or technology, thanks to globalization maybe, is really much more open to all countries than you will expect in the past. So it will depend heavily on those countries that are much more prepared to transform their technological modis operandi on that. Third point quickly reacting, certainly adding to Professor Baldwin's point, and again I agree. I wouldn't say the de-dolarisation of the global business, of course we can look at that from a political angle. But you can also see that as not necessarily to get away from the dollar, but to diversify and therefore to reduce the excessive dependency on the dollar. It's not necessarily to just get away from it, and this is clear to me that it's not just Iran, Russia, China that are looking to that. I think a lot of countries want to diversify their dependency on one single currency, be it the dollar or the euro, when you think about it. All of that obviously has impact on the world of work, and from the technology point, we in ILO estimate that between now and 2030 the SDG deadline, 100 million new jobs in the technology will be created at the same time millions of jobs close to 70, 75 will be lost with a net net gain of around 25 million jobs. So, as I like to say, none of us want to be in the category of 75. This is why, and I'm very glad when Professor Schwab and Sadia were mentioning that at the beginning, the whole re-scaling and upscaling become crucial in our way and our way forward. What we also see happening, you're referring to May 1st day, and it is good to remind ourselves the origin of May 1st. That goes back to 19th century, 1884 or so, when workers in Chicago were demanding eight hours day schedule, not the 12, 15 hours day on that. So my point is that with all those transformation that we are looking at, for business sake, we have to ensure or we have to keep in mind what was said in 1944 in Philadelphia, what we call Philadelphia Declaration, that poverty anywhere is a threat to prosperity everywhere. So in moving forward, not only is it a matter of the job we are creating, but it is also a matter of the quality of more and more the quality of the job. And what I'm referring to the quality I'm not looking for the moon is basically ensuring a dignifying job that the job is not a commodity and that it comes with a minimum voice for the workers and a protection for the workers. OK. You brought up AI, and it is, I think as Klaus said, the topic of the moment. Professor, I know you've written on robotics in the past, which was a previous wave of modernization, if you like, of workplaces. Again, you know, how optimistic or pessimistic are you about AI and what it ultimately means for growth and for employment? So I would like to put together two things, both the, and I want to focus on the service sector, because I think the story of automation and globalization was about mining, agriculture and manufacturing for the last 25 years. But I think going forward is going to be mostly in the service sector. And the digital technology is advancing both of those at the same time. International telework is becoming a real thing and automation of service sector jobs is becoming a real thing. So my personal take is that it's going to change every job, how we do it in the service sector, but not eliminate many jobs. And I think it may very well have. I'm, again, an optimist like Gilbert here. I have a question for you, by the way, a little later on. But the AI is essentially wisdom in a can. And so it's giving more power to all workers, but especially those average workers. So if you take an AI, for instance, and give it medical AI and give it to a nurse, he or she is much more capable than they were before. The doctor, too, a little bit. So I think this AI will be uplifting to the middle class because it's, in essence, the most expensive, most talented workers are people who have 20 years experience and know how to apply that. That's what AI does overnight. So I think it will be uplifting for the middle class. That's my, but it will be extremely disruptive in the sense that every job will change. There will be automation of certain things, and everybody will learn how to deal with it. Or what I say on Twitter all the time is AI won't take your job. It's somebody using AI that will take your job. So you better learn how to use AI. Jürgen, just to bring you in on this, because I think we've largely thought about these new technologies evolving very rapidly in already developed economies. That seems to be the locus for the development of a lot of this technology. What does it imply for developing economies and can developing economies embrace and internalize the technology as quickly? And will the consequences be fair and equitable for everybody? And if not, how can that be changed or how can they be helped? And if yes, well, we should celebrate. But what's your thought on that? Yes, again, it's complex. I think on the one hand, it's a challenge for developing countries. Because we have seen, for example, your example in the southeast of the UK, that we have seen on shoring because it becomes so attractive to use machines to do the work. And in particular because the labour costs in China have increased. So I think that's something which is not good for developing countries, perhaps for some of them, like China being well advanced in modernizing and automizing the economies. But on the other hand, of course, the new technology and digital technology can be a huge potential for developing countries. Look at agriculture, persistent agriculture. Look at services you can do remote now health services, for example, which can have a big impact on the SDGs and on the health part of the SDGs. So there is a potential where also poor countries can perhaps find peace in the global value chains in the services area. Does anybody else want to weigh in on this? I see a lot of nodding. Maybe I just add, I agree with Jurgen, and I go back to your first question about the macro scene. Because for countries to be able to attract such opportunities, the perception of risk has to be one which is manageable. And what we're seeing from the global backdrop is a lot of downgrades and a lot of reassessment of risk for good reason. But again, it's a period of several shocks and therefore as countries were moving forward on their development paths and so forth, there are sand in the wheels, if you will, because of the complications in the backdrop. So I think this is just a real extra challenge which might slow down things. So the idea is how can we, through the narrative of stakeholder engagement, government policies, private sector, MDBs, so forth, push forward so that we are not kept back and create more divide because of a very current circumstance which is pressuring everyone. If I can, yeah, maybe to compliment that two point that you mentioned one, and Jurgen just talked about the agriculture sector. It's something that we should watch, particularly since COVID and followed by the spiking of the grain and the fertilizers cost after the war in Ukraine started. Today, continental Africa imports 70 billion food a year, 70 billion dollars. And if you couple that with the ongoing challenge but progressing free trade agreement that African countries are really trying to pull together, that creates some kind of a positive outlook and optimism that I was referring to. On the flip side, and you have a very, very good point, the financing that you are referring to first of public. The financing is going to be one key matter that we will really have. The World Bank announced during the spring meeting that they plan to do everything possible to be able to inject more, five billion dollars in financing every year. But some token oblivious the UN that has estimated what is needed is four hundred million dollars a year. So it tells you a little bit to give you a sense of the magnitude of what we can or what the IFIC they can and what are the needs. So the financing both from the macro and the micro level is going to be challenging. And just briefly, one of the much vaunted desires I think of multilateral organisations like this one and non-governmental bodies that are focused on these issues is to see the green economy emerge as a significant employment opportunity going forward. But we've just come through an energy crisis in Europe and we continue to see headline oil at just below eighty dollars a barrel and we're worried about growth. Is that desire slipping, fading or does it represent a meaningful opportunity still? Certainly not. I would certainly not say that is slipping. And by the way I think we need to keep the political momentum, which was created since the Paris agreement. We see that momentum growing up until the COP 27 in Charmescher and 2016 Glasgow and others. So it's not I'm slipping. You see on the flip side the just transitions is going to be crucial. We need to pay more attention to the transition. Not only the green transition to decarbonising the economy is the energy transition is the digital transition and the energy transition you're talking about. This is where you really have to mix both the environmental climate change concern that we need to keep high and also look at that from a country that had to manage multiple challenges. You know if today you I don't know we can so many countries what comes to my mind in Senegal with the gas that they started or they're about to start trading. And you know that can contribute to your immediate SDG codes. At the same token you know you want to move towards renewable energy. What's how do you balancing. It's a challenge for everyone and to me it does not mean that you're giving up on the momentum. Okay let's open the floor to conversation and questions. Who'd like to ask a question to any of our panellists if you could identify yourself and then direct the question to ever you'd like to ask the question of can I see a hand up. Can we get a microphone to that gentleman here and is it possible to open one of these windows because I think we're all we're all you don't need to be an economist to melt to you. We need a clear voice. The conditioning is struggling. Yes I'm JJ from Japan. I'm teaching MBA and also running high school. And then the problem is when I'm teaching those students young students in Japan quite a lot of them think growth economic growth is bad things. Right. So even for MBAs quite a lot of people said I came here for not for the company's growth. What do you think is a future benefit of growth economic growth. Who'd like to take the question. I will volunteer before the professor. OK. Let's keep them tight and then we can get some more questions in. I think when we talk only about economic growth is what the youth the youngster don't want to hear anymore. We need to really start saying that you have three pillars that have to move side by side. Economic growth protecting modern nature environment and the social spending. A stop there. Yes. I think we need growth until we arrive in communism. Some have read perhaps Karl Marx there. Everybody gets what he or she needs and there we don't need growth but we are not there yet. So we need growth and in particular in developing countries and that's a big problem in terms of jobs in terms of SDG. And that I would like to to stress one point how tough how hard the situation is at the moment in developing countries. The minister has has raised the point of interest rates and the cost of capital. I mean these countries they have low growth. They have many development problems. They have to finance the global transformation towards decarbonisation. Capital is very very expensive there and I think we have to to look at that and therefore we address the issue in the World Bank. We want to reform the World Bank. My ministers asked for that in at the annual meetings last year. Now it's on the way but this has to be really a game changer and we have to look at other issues in the international architecture. Hopefully there will be and hopefully but there will be the summit in Paris organised by by France on financing. I think we have to find solutions there because it's about development and SDGs but it's also about financing the global transformation we need. Professor. So let me just say that your students are Japanese and maybe Japan doesn't need that much more growth. But there's a large number of people in the world where if their son breaks their arm and it gets complicated he dies. That's the way a lot of people live and for them getting income above say ten dollars a day you know be able to have some sort of security owning some property or a house that's what growth is. So the way I think you think about is growth or GDP per capita is not a measure of social economic welfare but it's correlated with an awful lot of those measures especially in the bottom half of the world income distribution. So the D growth narrative I think makes a lot of sense to a lot of people to say nothing in Switzerland what could you want but for a lot of the world they still need GDP to rise because they don't have the material conditions for a decent lifestyle. I will hope we agree though that you shouldn't just focus on growth and hoping that growth will solve the rest. It's important that we bring back we need growth I want to for me is very clear from my own perspective we need the growth but that growth should not be looked at in an isolated way and later on it will take care of the social and the environment. Rania did you want to talk about this. I mean I just want to say that for the just transitions to happen we need just financing and just financing means that countries development pathways need to be respected in achieving their climate goals which are part of the global goals and this is through quality and quantity of financing. And there's a lot of work that took place at COP 27 to give a definition of just financing and principles of just financing and how because of the cost of capital we need more concessionality in order to bring down the cost of capital to draw in the private sector much needed for the transitions but also for growth. Because if we think about each and every climate project be it mitigation or adaptation as a project that will create jobs as a project that will add to the country's development and therefore growth rates then this is where we will have a window to push forward on financing. Being the governor at the World Bank we are having very active discussions on we finished the mandate the new mandate but the operational the new operational model of the World Bank how are we going to be able to translate the mandate into action. The 15 billion from the World Bank was an experiment also there's a part with hybrid capital going into the markets and trying to see how we can increase that. So there's a there's a very vibrant discussion the verdict is still out and that's where examples that took place earlier and work should be scaled up so that we save time and create more growth in areas that need them. Let's take a question here. My name is Oda Al-Khazemi from United Arab Emirates. My question is what would you perceive the the undermined accelerators of growth at the moment because we are stuck in between reality and perception infection at the same time. We are in a world where we are brazing the economic growth of advanced technology like AI saying that there will be a contribution by 15 percent to the global GDP in 2030 and what not but at the same time we have a level of growth that lies within advanced education empowerment and equal communities and societies that surpasses the 15 percent to 30 percent growth opportunities. So what would be from your perception the undermined growth accelerators given the current economic outlook. Who wants Professor. You're the development guy. I mean I think the question is really challenging because there are so many country situations and probably that's not really possible to find the answer. When you look at low income countries that's more my focus and there I think the sources of growth are in the new commodities because the landscape is very rapidly shifting. The G7 has decided to create a club for commodities now and they signaled that they would accept in a way commodity kind of industrial development based on commodities. You know so local content issues. So that's that's a signal I think this could be a basis for growth based on commodities for low income countries. Another one is is light manufacturing and of course I think linked to to the the new areas of services. What I already said but for more developed countries of course middle income countries the situation is is a different one. Let's try and get another question in here. Thank you. Hi my name is Amol Merah with Laudas Foundation. I have a question for the director general. I think it's really interesting that the conversation thus far has been oriented toward the future the potential for growth what we need to do to address it. And I thought that the jobs report did a good job of highlighting the challenges of the present including the gaps in social protection. So I just wonder how you view sort of a positive future oriented mission to grow with the real challenges that communities and countries are facing now and even meeting basic social protection floors. Thanks. And let's use that as a wrap up question I think so if we could get an answer from everybody who'd like to start. Yeah let me very clear you on the social protection. This is one of the huge thing that ILO is working on. Some of you might know last year on this even the Secretary General Gutierrez and ILO launched this global accelerator for job and social protection. And we recall that half of the population four billion people have zero zero zero protection. Zero protection half of the population. So imagine if we were to provide basic not so different flow basic basic minimum protection to every citizen in the world the universal social protection is really key. And again for that obviously financing is a challenge and therefore you need a growth to be able to generate that financing the IMF and ILO are working on four pilot cases in how we work with government to really try to create the maximum fiscal space that can be used to finance those social social protection. So it's very critical again in providing that social dimension and balancing what I call the protection and employment. Professor. So I'd like to be optimistic on this and I think we have we're in a new world that consumers and workers at least in the rich nations care not just about how much but how. And I think in some sense that consumers have joined the value chain and they're demanding things are made with respect to labor and they're demanding that they work for corporations that have plans to make sure that there's no slave labor or whatever in their supply chains. So I think that's the optimistic way go forward and that's fundamentally based on awareness transparency and information. And that's where I put in my view where it's all come from is people actually know how their t-shirts are made nowadays. Whereas in the past all they did is how much it costs and how nice it was. So that's that's my optimistic take is inform transparency and empower the consumers to demand better conditions. Great. We've got two minutes. Jurgen. I think it's not only about awareness and transparency. I think the state the government has to play a very important role in this transformation has to set the framework has to guide and transform the the economy. We have made bad experience mobilizing private sector very bad. It's flat what we mobilize in the climate area. So we have to have a sector approach in the sense of Mariana Mazzucato where the government together with the industry sits together. So that's where we want to go decarbonisation. What does it take. This is a sector transformation approach and not a kind of transaction approach minister on the acceleration of growth. I think one of the topics is gender equality because there have been statistics and studies here that more female participation will push an accelerate growth. That's on on that issue with respect to climate financing and social protection. Each of the goals pushing forward does have an implication on the public social protection or social programs that have worked in countries can be scaled. We have for example today with the macro situation and the fallout from food prices and energy prices cash transfers. And I think out of covid the using the digital platforms that are able to allow these disbursements to go to the people most in need is something which is quite quite important. But I go back to the global backdrop because fiscal space is very small. There needs to be more cooperation not just government but also all stakeholders particularly when it comes to concessional finance. OK. Thank you very much. So lunch follows and I just like to thank our panellists for their contributions and for you for the questions.


I'm Marsha Joyner, and we are navigating the journey. Today, today we are going to navigate a journey that only comes once every 10 years. We want to know, are you counting? So we will begin our journey of navigating the journey into the world of the senses. Now, the senses comes once every 10 years, and you have to be counted. You have to be a part of this. Since 1790, the Constitution of the United States says we will have the senses. Everyone will be counted so that we can know where, how many people live in each state, how many people go to schools in that state, how many people drive on the highways, how many people do all kinds of things, how many representatives we have in Congress. All depends on whether you, you are counted. And let me tell you about the senses just in case those of you that don't remember. This is September, and pretty soon it's December, and everybody gets ready for Christmas. But do you know why Jesus was born in Bethlehem? Think about it. Why was Jesus born in Bethlehem? Because the rules of the day said that everyone had to be counted, and they would have to go back to the home, to the town of their father. So Joseph and Mary get off in Bethlehem for the senses. So if it wasn't for the senses, we wouldn't have a Christmas story. So just remember, even the baby Jesus was counted. So you have to be counted. That's enough of me. So we're going to meet my guest today. A lovely, lovely, just delightful Annie May. Thank you. Annie May is going to be with us as our journey through the senses. What it means, how you participate, and what the benefits we get from the senses. So, Annie May, that's a nice name. Thank you, Ms. Marsha. Thank you for having me here today. Annie May, now that's an old Southern name. How did you get a name like Annie May? Well, I came from the Philippines. Southern Philippines, actually. And I know my mom thought that it's a great name, a combination of her name and my father. So there you are. Yes. That's a nice name. Thank you. So tell us now, how long have you been, or you're born in the Philippines, but you're an American citizen? I just recently became an American citizen. I just recently immigrated, well, fairly recent in 2012. So this is my first time working for the senses, and it's also my very first US senses experience. Wow. Yes. Yes. So now tell us all about the senses. What is the senses? So as you mentioned earlier, every 10 years, America comes together to conduct a count, to count everyone once, only once, and in the right place. It started in 1790, actually. Shortly after George Washington became president, and it was actually directed at that time by the Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson. That was 200 years ago, more than 200 years ago, and we're still doing it at this time for the purpose of reapportionment of the US House of Representatives for redistricting and for the distribution of over $675 billion of federal funding across states, counties, and cities across the country. And again, it is mandated by the US Constitution. So if we don't count everybody, what do we lose as a state? Let's assume that the district is big as Kalihi, for instance. There's a lot of Filipinos. If all of them are not counted, what do we lose as a state? There is so much to lose as a state if we don't get a complete and accurate count of our communities. Again, there's over $675 billion, and we don't get what I would say a fair share of that when we don't count everyone. So there's actually a lot of studies that our audience or community can also look up to. You can look at George Washington University study. But for us in the US Census Bureau, our biggest messaging out there is be counted because that means federal dollars for our communities. So we get federal dollars based on how many people actually reside in the communities. That's correct. So that would mean that if you have, this is hypothetical, that you have a child that today is living with you and they're counted. Now, however, if they go away to college and they're not in the household at the time... They will be counted in the college or wherever they live on everyone. If they go away to Wisconsin to school, they're counted in the Wisconsin count and not in the Hawaii count. Yes, they will be counted wherever they live on April 1. That's correct. So it would behoove everyone to have them counted before they leave for college. Well, there is a time frame that we are counting. So wherever you are on April 1, which is Census Day, you will be counted there. Now, what about the schools? I read that you have a program for schools. What does that mean? It's called statistics in schools. For statistics in schools, it makes it accessible for our students to learn about. Can they register in school? Can they be counted? Can they do the actual count while they're in school? Could they put that student, let's assume they're a senior... In high school. In high school. Can they participate while they're in class? Actually, right now what we're doing with schools will be reaching out to students to remind their parents to actually participate in the census. Because the count will be how it's going to happen is you will get an invitation, each household will get an invitation on the mail to respond to the census, and each household will fill that out, counting everyone that lives in that household on April 1, 2020. So for schools, our outreach is to inform our students, educate them about the census, and hopefully they will also relay that message and remind their parents from 2020 to not forget to respond to the census. Yeah, so you said every household will get a letter. Is that what you said? That's correct. Every household will get a letter and an invitation starting March 12, 2020, to invite them to respond to the census online. We are still able to respond through the paper questionnaire, and you'll still be able to call as well, whatever is more convenient for you. But then there is that option now for the first time in census history to respond online as well. So it's easier. It's easier. However, in a place like Hawaii, where we have so many languages, and then they get this letter in English, then what? Or if you go online, it's English. And if you don't have a computer and all of this is in English, do you have a way for them to respond to people that don't, where English is not the first language? So definitely the census supports that English, you know, or inviting everyone to respond, even if you're not proficient in English. And how we're helping people to do that is that online, if you go online to respond, you can actually have an option of 12 non-English languages that is supported online. So you can respond on that language, the 12 non-English language. Paper questionnaire is only available for English and Spanish. And we have 59 other languages that are supported with language glossaries and those kind of support. Because in our own Chinatown, we have seven different Asian languages. Definitely. So, you know, the thought that they get something in English, like, well, now what? So another part of that too of what I do as a partnership specialist actually is we are partnering with organizations, local organizations. We're actually partnering with our state government, local government, local community organizations. Because you know your community, like what you said, in Chinatown, there are different languages, right? We are partnering with these organizations to help us reach out to people who may not be proficient in English and help them come Census 2020 to respond, help them, you know, correctly respond to their questionnaires. So that's very important. These partnerships we're creating right now, it's very important to our community so we can have a more accessible Census for everyone. Well, now if someone that's watching says, well, I belong to such and such, how can my organization help? Can they just call you? How does that work? Yes, that would be really great. We have a team of partnership specialists right now on the island who speaks actually one of the ways that the Census is bridging the gap with the languages is that most of us, partnership specialists actually speak languages other than English. So I speak Tagalog. I have a colleague, Sharon, who speaks Japanese. And we have our native Hawaiian Pacific Islander, a partnership specialist as well. Sharon and Elizabeth. Shout out to them when we have even a Spanish person. So we are supporting that, but that's why we're also connecting to these organizations. They can call us or check www.census.gov for partnerships. They can contact us and let us know what ways that we can partner because there are many ways to partner and do the Census. Whatever you're advocating for, whether you're an advocate group for people experiencing homelessness or you do language translations, we could really use your help on this comment. What about homeless people? Now they need to be counted too. Correct. And we are counting them. So you have someone that actually goes out to them? Is that because they're not going to get the mail? Yes. So we will be doing service-based enumeration at the end of March 2020 to account our communities who are experiencing homelessness in soup kitchens, mobile food vans, even in parks, transitional locations, parks, alleys, camps where they are. And we are asking help from our local communities or local organizations to connect us to these groups and let us know where can we do the count. So that's what we're going to do. Do you ever have a case where you have a double count? Let's assume that you have a child that today they're with you. And then let's assume they just run away from home and now they're living on the street. And now somebody else counts them. So they're counted twice. I know that's hypothetical, but do you ever run into cases like that? Well, there are different scenarios, right? There's no one, obviously all of us have different kind of household, different families, different situations. And that's why this educating and raising awareness in our community and how to do that will resolve these situations. So for example, in 2010 we actually missed out on over a million kids counting them. But I know your question is if we have a double count. So anyway, I'm just excited to share that. Don't keep that enthusiasm. We need to take a break. When we come back, tell us more about that and then how people can get involved with you. Okay, we'll be right back. The Hawaii Community Foundation. The Hawaii Council of Associations of Abarbon Owners. Hawaii Energy. The Hawaii Energy Policy Forum. Hawaiian Electric Company. Integrated Security Technologies. Galen Ho of BAE Systems. Kamehameha Schools. MW Group. The Shidler Family Foundation. The Sydney Stern Memorial Trust. Volo Foundation. Yuriko J. Sugimura. Thanks so much to you all. Hi, Marcia Joyner. And are you counted? We are on a journey that is going to take us until June about the census. And what is the census and why you need to be counted. And my guest today is Annie Mae. I like that. Annie Mae is with the census, 2020. And so Annie Mae started telling us some exciting adventures with the last year, last time. How many people did you say we missed? We missed out on over a million kids, which these kids will need schools, national lunch programs, education the next 10 years. So we don't want to do that. But anyway, your question earlier, I want to go back, is how do we avoid double counting people? So when we respond to the census, we just count who is in our household living, in our household on April 1st. And for example, in case that the child lives in two different places, right? So wherever that child lives the most, sleeps all the time, eats and sleeps and lives all the time, that's where that child should be counted. So if they have a joint custody, for instance, the mother lives one place, the father lives, and the children go back and forth every other week or whatever. So which parent gets to count them? So in that case, if the parents both feel like this child stays with them most of the time, 50-50, then wherever the child is on April 1, 2020. On that day? On that day. Okay, not just all the time, but where that child is that day.  So then they have to make that decision between the parents, which of them is it going to count? Yeah, there should be a good communication. So discuss it with your families if that's the case or situation that you're in. Okay, now you mentioned education. So part of the money's part of this, that the census is counting for, like with children, it goes to, you said education, how much education? Schools, lunches, school, what all of that? So like national lunch programs, Head Start, you know, those kind of very important for small ones, even Pell Grants, those kind of federal funds that our children use. Now what else do these federal funds cover in a community? Let's just take Oahu, not the big picture, but just Oahu. What does it cover? What kind of federal grant funds? Healthcare, Medicaid is probably the biggest. Supplemental, nutrition, SNAP programs, those kind. What else, like workforce development covers that. So a lot of different, actually my colleague has a good way of putting it. She says Kiki to Kokuna, because really from a Kiki to Kokuna, we'll need all these services that are federally funded. So yeah, those are just some of the examples. And it also helps our future, you know, our leaders plan for the future. Where do we build the next schools? Where do we build the next hospitals and for businesses? Where do they build a grocery store, for example? So it really helps with the planning as well. So the census really touches so many ways. So that once this is calculated, then if you are a contractor, like I said, you want to decide where you're going to build, then you go to the census and say, well, there's X number of people in this community, and they will need this. And did I get that right? The information that we provide in the census is very important in the planning and for future of our community. Now, is it just once a year, once every 10 years, or do you update the numbers during that 10 years? So the actual count that we do is every 10 years. So this is why it's a huge endeavor. And we do need everyone's help. However, the next numbers, those will just be estimates. So you don't go out of count again, you just estimate? The estimate is based on the count. And however, the US Census Bureau still has many other surveys going on as well. Other than the decennial one. So we have American Community Surveys, different economic surveys. So those are still happening as well. I was going to say, I'd notice that the economic changes, if you read it, oh, this was done here and this was done here, if you're looking for something, that changes. So now, tell us, how and do you need people with jobs? How do they apply? Where do they apply? Can we look at and talk about what kind of jobs, how much it pays, what are they expected to do, and how do they apply? Thank you so much for bringing that up. It's very important. We do need people to help us make the census possible as census takers. You need to be 18 years and above to be a census taker. And you need to have a valid social security number. You have to have a valid email address. And it's very good opportunity. It's flexible hours. You can work part-time as well. In Oahu, that's around $18 an hour for the pay rate. And you will be able to serve your community and also make some income as well. So do you have part-time and full-time? We have part-time and full-time positions. So full-time positions might be more office. So all you have to do is go to 2020census.gov slash jobs and create an account and answer the assessment. And from that on, they can decide what kind of positions you want to work for. If you wanted to, like I said, be in the office, then you would say that. Or if you want to go out and actually talk to people. Yeah, you can indicate those. You can indicate those. Because the hours too, right? So if you can only work part-time and all that, those things matter. What kind of education background do you need? Or do you? You need to be above 18 years. That assumes a high school education to be 18 or above. To be 18 above. So are there any special jobs that are specialists that you would need in advanced education? At the moment, we're really pushing for the census enumerator jobs or the census taker jobs. We will let you know or we will get in touch with our partners if we need other specialists. Because we also have IT managers and all that. However, at the moment, it depends. I think we just share that. That might be a close position now, but we will see just keep your CUSA jobs or our advertisements for this job openings if there are any other jobs aside from census. Tell us again. We do have a flyer. So tell us again exactly how we can apply, how we can reach you or give us the telephone numbers and the email address, how we can do that. Definitely. So you can apply at 2020census.gov.slashjobs and create your account there. You may also call 1-855-job-2020. If you have any questions regarding the jobs, job openings or if you want to follow up on something. But to connect with partnership specialists, you may call me at<PHONE_NUMBER>. My email is kind of really long, but it's basically my name Annie that made that key, that so-called SOKOL at 2020census.gov to connect with us. Yeah. So if they have any questions, they can call you directly. Yes. They can call me if they want to participate and be a partner of the 2020census to help us educate and raise awareness in the community. That would be really great. And we're also hoping to create complete account committees to again have that working committee to help us get the word out there about this. Now I have one last question. And it came up 10 years ago, and I don't know where we are now. And that is for people who are part this and part that and part that. And there was a time when you could only choose one. Now can you choose that you are all of these? Yes. Definitely you can choose the race that you belong to. The options are there now. You can even, I saw that you can check Filipino, so I'll definitely check that one. But if you are mixed, you can check appropriate boxes that pertains to you and you can even write it down as well. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's been a big thing for years. Exactly. Yeah. In Washington, they ever expected to come to Hawaii and find all these mixtures when everybody's mixed. Yes, we are very diverse. Yes. Yes. So I just had to ask if that's been corrected. Yes, that's correct. And one last question. I think we have enough people now for another congressional seat. Do we, and if we do, how do we go about getting it? Or can you answer that, or do I need to? That will really depend on our account. So how far we are from that, we will have to see. Okay. Well, it's been a pleasure spending this time with you and we'll see you next month. She's going to be with us once a month. So thank you. Thank you again. And remember, are you counting?


Oh yeah, what's up guys, it's Chris Pike. My friend's coming, Banksy. I'm back again guys, today got some free stuff for you. It's a feature on Freedom, but today we're featuring one partner. In fact, it's a team. Their team is called iSacrifice, and they're a GFX, VFX, or Graphics and Video FX artist team. Guys, these guys are providing us with tons of stuff. I definitely recommend checking out their channel. The link is in the description below. Behind me, you're gonna see all sorts of things that they've provided me. Their channel has video intros, video outros, Twitter headers, YouTube banners, custom Cinema 4D intros. Just about anything you can imagine that's graphical or video related in terms of assets. They've got it there. They've got specific game stuff, Minecraft, Star Wars Battlefront, Assassin's Creed Syndicate. The list goes on and on and on. It's all there, guys. It's all free to download. If you wanna take it, go for it. There's some of this stuff is in the link in the description below, the stuff you see behind me. But if you're looking for specific things or you wanna be in the loop and on their different updates as new games come out and new intros get released, et cetera, et cetera, check out their channel. They're the real deal. These guys are professionals. They make really, really good stuff. And if you contact them, you can either enter into free giveaways. You can request that they create you a custom intro either for free or maybe they'll do it for money. There's a team there, so I can't really speak for them. But the bottom line is, is I sacrifice to go there for great stuff. The whole bunch of guys providing quality content nonstop.


We've talked a lot about platforms that commit and one of the consistent themes has been simplicity With fewer integrations to maintain and more visibility across the life cycle because you have a single source of truth We can bring more people into the process and we can extend their reach so they can become more productive and do more things And that's great when you pair simplicity with scope It's very very powerful, but with that power comes the ability to introduce new complications into the system One area where that can happen very easily is cloud native workloads. It's Very very easy to over complicate things, especially if you ignore simplicity and manageability And you focus exclusively on scaling So our next speaker Robbie Lockman will go into a lot more detail about some of the traps you might encounter on your Kubernetes journey and provide some tips on keeping things simple enough to help you maintain the Productivity, which is the whole reason you're trying to do this in the first place. Let's listen Well, hey everybody and welcome back to another github commit I'm super excited that you're here to hear my talk and couldn't be happier to chat with you during the talk So my talk is called scaling simplicity idea to production in Kubernetes And we're gonna be going through a little bit of a journey that we had here at harness Well, we're actually we're migrating to Kubernetes. So a little bit about me. I'm Robbie Lockman I'm an evangelist at harness you can get me at my get lab handle at Robbie lock also my Twitter handle at Robbie lock if you Want to communicate afterwards? So what are we going to be talking about today? So let's actually talk about a time before kumarets Yes, there was a time before kumarets and workloads were distributed long before that And also as you're going through your own kumarets journey simplicity has its virtues One of the design principles kiss keep it simple stupid. That's very important and we get into that And during your journey scale will come right? So don't worry if you're not using the latest and greatest which is kind of hard to say in kumarets This kumarets is kind of mainstream now if you're using the bleeding edge That's okay, and then also we're going to be talking about continuous delivery Which is your conduit from idea to production So at time before k8. So let's take a look at actually a distributed system architecture Right before kubarets. This is actually the architecture that I was most familiar with people were kubarets Not in my background. I've been a je your jet Java Enterprise Edition software engineer for a long time I had lots of workloads off of kumarets and lots of workloads on kubarets And so going through this particular distributed architecture They might looking from the user to let's say some error that you have some persistence is that you know What the first thing is you get load balanced and then you might have more than one application server, right? So at the time report Kubernetes it was normal to have let's say one application per application container And even having if you had a stateful application that those application servers have to communicate So you're looking at some sort of in application clustering or out of application clustering For example if in the Java stack you might using a particular in-memory cache like in fitness band or even clustering or consensus algorithms and platforms such as jgroups and then finally, you know You don't live in outer space or in the ether at some point you have to write something at some point So if database stack might be some sort of streaming messaging like a dupe or writing to a fall level database like Alessandro Or even no our good old friend Postgres here and potentially before kubernetes There was a big investment into platform as a surface or passes So you might be using a cloud foundry reduction of rendition let that be a pivotal cloud foundry I've been blue mix or even open source cloud foundry itself or even you're looking at something like message for DC West So there was help to get this architecture out there And to also facilitate each one of these with the parts But like any distributed system if you take a look at this should be system through this thing called the fallacies of distributed computing right, so it was developed by some engineers at Sun Microsystems that No matter if you have a distributed a platform or distributed computing is that hey You know what these things are actually fallacies first of all your bandwidth is not infinite, right? You have caps of bandwidth a big one here is latency No matter how many kubernetes clusters or how many nodes you have There's still going to be latency between the distributed system right or between the nodes or even Looking at modern Clark architecture if you have different availability zones There's gonna be latency between the AZ's and also again a distributed system is not 100% reliable You know the more parts you have potentially the more failures you have the old adage You know what do you want to plane with four engines or a plane with two engines? Well, you know the more parts you have the more failure there is and also and this is actually very true Kubernetes the assumption that is going to be one and only one admin is not true Right like the beauty of Kubernetes is that the more people you have cubes a cube CTL access to which is you know If you're familiar with it's command line of Kubernetes You have the ability to change the cluster But what do you get to hear is that you know? I'm not gonna you know kind of no kind of rain on Kubernetes too much again Like Kubernetes didn't automatically solve these problems right like you still have latency if you have your nodes that are too distributed They actually might get more marches on healthy if the latency is too high right here if Kubernetes their QBDM can't connect Or or talk to the different nodes reliability like any system, you know what it's not because you're not automatically reliable The platform itself, you know needs management your workloads are not automatically more reliable because your Kubernetes again You know the same network IO that you're bound with without Kubernetes It hasn't increased unless your network IO is increased and again going back to one admin Actually, there's no it's designed to have more multiple admins, right? So you might have some sort of tasks that are overwritten. I'm just having to make sure you keep those people in line But what do you get with Kubernetes right? So what do you get? Well, Kubernetes is really really good with lots of things, right? So you get for example, you get parity, right? So if you're having something running in your local machine something your local machine like, you know K3 is your mini cube There's some expectation that that workload to the run kind of similar in a production cluster You got scale, right? So adding more pods and more replicas and even actually more worker nodes is trivial, right? Like you can you can scale your cluster to support the workloads or workload of your choice Upgrades, right? So if you look at what it took to orchestrate a container workload without orchestrator Basically, if you had just some sort of patch or upgrade which means in the container world, it's immutable So you're making a new version of the image It's actually pretty easy to do that with Kubernetes or you can say hey You know what redeploy this version and Kubernetes will start taking care of that for you And also with all these benefits you get more agility, right? Potentially that if your operations team your development team your application infrastructure team of all three of those teams are speaking kind of the Same language here Kubernetes You get harmony and agility with that So let's talk about the I call it the virtues or virtuous simplicity, right? And so let's talk about why simplicity is so important, especially with the distributed system. So Taking a look at your particular firm There is do you have an internal versus external customer, right? So it's just talk take this in the terms of being a platform to your So your internal customers could be your development teams, right? And the thing is with internal customers. They don't have any choices. What you give them is what they get right now There's a whole notion of shadow IT But for the most part, you know what they're they're not going to be rocking the boat You know, it's they don't have a choice versus your external customers or quote-unquote your actual customers of the business They have almost infinite choice, right? They have lots and lots and lots of choice And so, you know the adage that your external customers don't care how you did something is actually pretty true They care about the results, right versus your internal customers absolutely care how you do something because they're subject to it, right? So if you're if external customers are happy or vice versa if your internal customers are happy They produce the best work for external customers. This can be a very intrinsic talk But really, you know what you have to support both customers, right at the same time because again your external customers You know what if you have something overly complicated, they don't care and it's detrimental to your internal customers Because why is this? Well, eventually in times that are good and in times that are bad We move on right so as people we're very rarely or I would say almost never at the same company for 30 years anymore We're not especially we're not the same project for 30 years and all the institutional knowledge that we have kind of goes You know when times are good get a new job when times are bad Yeah might get a new job or change project teams that or change tribes or depending if you're on that Spotify model But that's it right eventually people move on move up You know and next the next generation comes in and gives a fresh pair of eyes the problems And if you have something that's overly complex like you're limiting the number of people who have knowledge a That the learning curve would be extremely high when they join the team would be a lot of what industry convention Might it be kind of weaning on your particular team And the latino one of the last things that you don't want to be doing and this would be a guiding principle If you're an architect is that you don't want to be troubleshooting the at the bleeding edge, right?  I only test in production or you like to watch the world burn It's items that are tried and trued Yeah, there's kind of two parts there at one.  You might run the edge cases that you just have it a raised condition that you just haven't thought about before And that's it, you know, you don't want to be troubleshooting on the bleeding edge Let's talk about scale will come so eventually. Yes, you know what you start to incorporate new to especially in our journey We start to incorporate new technology In buckets of it, right? And so and depending on the functionality that we need but scale will come So the first thing you want to try to do is when you're kind of building out your journey Is that actually focusing in on well, you know, why are you migrating and also well this particular trifecta? That if you've seen any sort of the DevOps monitors people process technology This is it right like this is the DevOps mantra But I kind of point a little bit different of a picture here is that I call it the confidence trifecta and asking the question Where do you have the least confidence? It's where you're gonna start building first, right? So I always like to say computers are easy about people are hard And so if technology if you're the least confident in your let's say infrastructure technology That's easy to solve for for example, you know what for some odd reason We're you know, we're having maintenance trouble in our application You don't want like bringing it down And so okay, why don't we have five nodes of the application then because the things are five You can take two concurrent failures, right? You can do it you can do one for maintenance maintenance or upgrade and one for actual failure And that's actually very confident in you having five nodes of a particular Resource or service process wise. Okay, sure, you know what we you know We don't have proper test coverage So we need someone with a lot of domain experience to review the changes or especially if you're probably a regulated industry or things I take a lot of domain experience like insurance or healthcare like this, you know might take or banking especially It might take someone to kind of you know, who knows who knows the domain Solve for that we can put that person in the process or people in the process versus people if you're the least confident in your people It's it's guard rail city, right? You're building all sorts of guard rails in between that but even even more so, you know People are naturally curious, right, especially software engineers. They want to try new stuff out They want to build things and this huge push Into cloud native architecture is these two terms that are actually going against each other So let me let me start the basis with this a Dividend C plus infinity equals cloud native and so if something is indebted it's actually a mathematical construct that it's no matter How many times you hit the same equation you get the same result, right? So or a good example is asking a weather. So I live in Alfred at Georgia Outside it's kind of sunny and humid today. So if I go, you know asked, hey, what is a weather in alpharetta? It's sunny and humid no matter how many times versus the weather changes I ask that question I get the same answer from each piece of the distributed system Versus a familiarity is that being a federal means you're short-lived, right? So containerized workloads meant to die if you have something that's super long-running. It might not be, you know Wise to put it in a single container But if you have a one-hand something that needs to be consistent It's something on the other hand that will die all the time Those two things are actually competing against each other and you would think to yourself that hmm You know what there's probably like three things on earth that can actually do this which is actually incorrect So if you take a look at the choice overload, which is the this the common thing of pundits here That's a cloud data compete foundation CNC earth landscape there's that you know There's over a thousand cards or 1500 cards here is that there's so much choice and so much I would say very granular functionality and things that are vying force incremental improvements and very granular functionality It's you get inundated with with choice, right? So how can you decipher as something is bleeding edge versus mature? You know, do you have to be using like several or dozens or all about all of these technologies at one time for it to be Be confident is no, you don't need to start your journey somewhere and build that operational Expertise and operational excellence and change will come right so let's take let's actually take a look at you know Our journey. I've been dirty. It's been going on for two years now when we've been migrating our workloads That the purely Kubernetes and so kind of like the first you know day zero. I will call it when we start turning our workloads We're using very vanilla instances of GKE, right? So our cloud provider this case is Google and so we were using we were trying to stay as You know out of the box as possible without writing tons of custom resources and operators and whatnot and say hey You know what if it's functional is given to us by default or something easily injectable by Google Let's go ahead and take that and change will come right like hey You don't have to do it all at one time. You know if you know kind of the shiny penny You know a year ago might have been the service mesh like Istio even more kind of running out last year You might be tearing something if it's coming to call OPA or open policy agent You know, we're leveraging those things now But if we weren't leveraging them, you know two years ago, right? Like hey, you know, we weren't really invested that much in a service match years ago OPA is one of a newer kind of a newer type of way of doing something and We haven't been invested that early on and again understanding that hey no change will come Because if you try to do too much change at one time There's this concept of shifting left, right? So you might have heard several talks you're talking about shifting left shifting left shifting left And this actually introduces complexity, you know, so computer science is like an abacus You complexity never goes away, right? You're just moving complexity around You anybody would experience will tell you that like hey, you're just moving it from left to right or you know in the abacus and You know the more we shift left the more the more that the control and the Prescription the demand issues outside the DevOps or pop from your team gets shifted to the developer, right? So not only when I develop now if you take too much a shift to left hand I only this developer have to write the feature They're also shipping route changes with Istio, right? And they're also saying you know what we need the off because of using OPA the author can also be the enforcer of the system And so, you know, we wouldn't when design consideration that we had to think of the consideration here is as we shifted more items Like hey, you know, what is the role of the pop-up engineering team? What is the role of you know, do we make sure that the Istio service up and people can make changes versus? Do we have another expert like a hey network infrastructure engineer take a look at this versus Do we have an app second generic take a look at some of the OPA changes like where is that balance, right? Do we put all that that emphasis on the developer which can be fairly difficult? Because again, you know that there's just two technologies. What will the future hold right as my fault You know where we are today versus in two years from now as my father would say, you know, I can predict the future Let me go buy a lottery ticket and I You know, I would I would just buy a couple other tickets and be set for life, right? But unfortunately, you know, we can't we can't predict the future But taking a look at you know, some other things that are coming on the line leveraging something like a Berkeley packet filter here Like EPPF, you know, that that can be something that we're looking into now. There are dangers of this The at the current time we're recording to talk there has been a very kind of big Lennox kernel EPPF or a particular CVE they came up, right? So it's some sort of incorrect balance calculation. I'm not a kernel engineer I couldn't tell you what that means but Because that's out there, you know, it's coming back to how do we keep complexity in check, right? Like hey, you know what going back to you. Hey, I'm not a kernel engineer. You know, I'm a software engineer or a platform engineer that low level CVE shows that hey as we continue to push more complexity People with the expertise or people who would have you know, hey, you know what? So we had a rel engineer who managed, you know, the lunch distributions Those are, you know, kind of rarity these days Where do we have the person with the expertise or people expertise, right? As you keep pushing more and more complexity It's you know what? I'm not a kernel. I get going back to not a curl engineer I also know no work engineer. So it still was a new one to me, right? No working roles And you know what not only that they have to offer multiple things But they have n number of customer research definitions that are going into, you know The deployment at this point and it just keeps going on and on so like be be wary of that, right? Like Kubernetes that the solve all now let's talk about. Okay. Let's be more positive now Let's actually talk about getting getting your idea Into production right and the kind of why you know, some of those caveats there Now we're a port to it to understand as you're kind of marching towards production So the first thing is I call us to talk in a talk I Participate in this organization called the continuous delivery foundation or CDF So I this is a promise based on very passionate about and I get actually give a talk called how much should you deploy, right? Well How much should you deploy is to open in the question here, you know You know, let's say you're curious for the first time you grab your copy of the lean enterprise and you Google it You know, I say, oh, Amazon deploys every 11 seconds I'm pretty sure this number is less than this now. You might say, okay, you know what? We're not deploying every 10 seconds. We're you know, we're doing no good. Well, hold on You know what the argument is not everybody's Amazon They'll actually take a you know kind of unpack what your deployments used to look like Before kubernetes, right? So who are going back to who remembers these deployments, right? And so deploying Prior to kubernetes room, which let's say we're mature kubernetes instance is that you know what you might be using a platform as a service, right? You might in this case, you might be using methods for DCS So that's authored in that marathon is in JSON You might be you have to be modifying if the past isn't doing it You might be modifying your load balancer rules, you know for logic a that's in a particular proprietary format Wiring for the application servers, right? So you might be looking at you know what? How do I wire multiple wild flies together? That's the chemical X camel And then in the in application clustering portion of like we'll say the in-memory grid stuff, you know That's all configured by XML from jgroups in the fitness band But each one of these was a separate language each one of these had separate Notation each one of these had separate ways to go about deploying So how I deploy a jgroup change is it different than how I deploy a Wi-Fi change versus How I would deploy a load balancer change or a path change or so on and so each one of these was separate right took expertise Versus, you know what if I you can wrap all of these into one very big kubernetes manifest or multiple manifest Literally kubernetes will apply out mega all as they have here But that's basically it right because of advancements of things like helm a package manager or things like customized Which is a configuration manager You're able to all speak the same language or speaking yaml, right? Might as you write like a you know an operator or controller that we wouldn't go or another language But you're all speaking the same language. There's nothing stopping you from writing one super lengthy Manifest or big yaml called mega all and to supply it right or apply it and kubernetes is up to the recent Because as now understanding those two particular things right is that and also understanding That your kubernetes cluster architecture right so as an engineer I'm always liking to take the path or developer taking the path of this resistance, right? So the great thing about kubernetes is that you know the adage of don't let license costs determine your topology It's actually very true kubernetes is you know technically free, right? It's an open source project So from your local machine using like mini cube or k3 You know depending on how you architect your kubernetes cluster to be a one very large cluster You know you separate groups by namespaces or if you have lots of multiple little clusters That's it clusters are cheap, right? But again, it all comes down to a management philosophy that it's kind of diagnosed the patient for a certain type of workload One of the things that you get out of the box to kubernetes and where it gets a little bit tricky It's actually very easy at the beginning. They get a little bit more tricky at you know As your workloads start to age is that kubernetes has this out of the box functionality call a rolling upgrade or rolling update There's two strategies. There's a replace that will kill everything and then just restart everything But rolling would be in this particular case that it's exactly as a rolling update into previous application use It's the same in kubernetes There's a number of running let's say instances you define how many you need at any given time How many you can go over and kubernetes will say, okay, you know what Robbie said he wanted to Particular tacos and then you can use two all chunky orders here to go over and so the first pass would be okay Replace two and two and then you can go to two total. It would have made more sense with four four and two, right? But I was running out of this It's on the screen here, but you get to just of it, right? It's like making sure that something starts It's healthy keep going keep going keep going until it's fulfilled Which you know it works kind of you know, but if you start having Let's say workloads of substance, right having a rolling update, you know what it can be either slow Or it could be actually it's not as safe. It could be the whole Part about continuous delivery is that you're supporting safety and iteration, right? So be going from Software is an iterative sport, right? You have to be able to prototype and then make incremental changes to release And then if you need to go back, you need to be able to fail fast, right? And so there's this deployment paradigm called a canary release, right? So how do you support? Not only incremental releases lots of them and also how can you support getting feedback quickly as something wasn't working a little bit different than a rolling update or upgrade now using a canary or Austrian canary will under underneath the covers be facilitating Those particular mechanisms that are out of the box to remain but if you're unfamiliar with what a canary releases this one we do all the time is that You actually it's intermole release. So it basically you're releasing a small portion. So here we have a 33% split here So the canary I say chunky orders version 1.1 or chunky orders version one of the application the canary version 1.1 You would actually deploy version 1.1 and one at the same time. So two versions are running You would stagger get traffic, you know, it kind of split them by the load balancer level and say, okay You know what our our instance is stable for 1.1 Let's move on and so you would promote the canary to stable So chunky order will be replaced here and the canary will now be version 1.1 is not stable And that's it, right? So as you make that judgment call and validate, you know You say, okay ship the traffic over to 100% and that's it, right? Like that's basically a very safe way of releasing All of this can be orchestrated into a pipeline And so if you're unfamiliar with what I continuous delivery pipeline looks like this is typically what one looks like here Or actually segregating Via different or different, let's say functions and so in this model I'm actually a big fan of this model that it's that it's I was called the tightening of the screw or tightening of the rope type Of model is that as you go from dev to QA to production You're actually getting more strict in your rule sets, right? So developments and trick tasks, you know You might be doing things like unit tests or code coverage or static scans versus if you're going towards QA You sure introducing infrastructure So you're doing like perf tests or smoke tests and then when you're getting into production here It's you know, you're actually looking at how do we have a safe a safe release like some sort of canary even continuing to run Test after deployment the going joke is you know, when is your deployment over? Well, it's over when the next one goes in, right? And so it's making sure that you are staying you're staying on it And I'm making sure your external customers have a positive experience. Lastly, I'll leave you with this As you're coming up the time here is that we only you know the level of automation that you like, right? So it's you know, some of these topics might have been a little might be too much automation for your particular group But that's okay. Hey, you know what? You know, it's the best or depending where you're on your journey Any sort of improvement is an improvement, right? You're helping better the craft But with that, you know, thank you so much for catching my talk. I'm Robbie Lockman You can catch me on Twitter at Robbie lock and until next time cheers everybody