and then say it again, Jay. I think that we're the greatest people of all time. It's not as funny about the context. It's not as funny without the context that I decided to say. The context is us and all of time. And I think that's enough context. That's true. That's a good point, right? So yeah, I'm inclined to agree. We're pretty great. Yeah, I mean, apparently, there's two people saying that now and Frank seem to agree that if all three of you think it's true, that's probably true. That's a sample size of three. Yeah. Yeah, that's a hundred percent win rate.  That's a lot of percent. That's basically an objective fact. I would say so. At that point, yeah, like it's just kind of inarguable. Yeah, without any level of airing, it is representative of reality. That's true. My black widow video got demonetized, apparently, for using slurs. But I don't remember using any slurs in that video. Neurodiverge, it's not a slur yet, right? It will be probably, but... And you just replace it with the next one that will become a slur. I said someone was a wombo brain, but I don't know if that counts. Wombo is not officially recognized. I hope not. I don't want wombo to go. Yeah. It's actually pretty offensive that it would be considered a slur. That says more about the person who calls for the slur than the person who said it. I agree. What's your problem with wombo? Wombo people deserve representation and elimination. They've suffered enough, right? Elimination, no ranks, please. No, not elimination, that's... No, we're committing wombo side. No. It's going to be the new wombo cost. I'm terrified and scared and all of the other things too. Can you appeal that decision or not?  Because you'll have bias.  We need to get a third party. Alrighty, I guess here we go. Who knows what we're in for? Hello, my massive n-weirds, praeseth be the chickeneth also hyrax. Hello. Yes, praeseth be. Hey there. Just finished the unbridled catastrophe. Congrats on 150 as well. Also, have you guys talked about invincible? I've been out of the loop. No, we haven't. No, we still haven't seen that. No, I don't want to really... And to this day, people are battling over whether or not it should be considered good and we're just sitting here like, you guys, you guys go ahead. I feel like more people were saying it was good before. Now more people saying it's average to bad. Yeah, I've been noticing that trend developing as well. And so what are we to make of this? I feel like that means it's probably bad. It used to be the greatest, most amazing, incredible superhero material that's been made. And now, slowly but surely... Now we're not so sure, yeah. Oh, very interesting. I'm so down for ceiling tile reviews. I think that you referenced that right at the beginning with 150, yeah. Yeah, well it must be because if this is where we're starting, yeah. But I do recall the ceiling tile reviews. I feel like it decently reviews ceiling tiles. Yeah, if you both are interested, we could get that going. I don't see why not. I think you're a big fan of ceiling tiles, right? I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm a big fan, but I dabble in ceiling tile connoisseur-y. Let me ask you this, though.  You were ceiling tile of big fans? Giant fans? I like big ceiling fans. They're really useful in keeping things cool without using too much energy. We're environmentally conscious in the green, the world of green. Now lines up. The way green gets associated with environmentally aware stuff a lot of the time. Because grass, that's right. Because grass is green and the grass is the environment. I mean, it makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Can't mold be green, too, and snot? And algae. Well, I guess algae, you know, it serves a purpose, right? Yeah, I don't even know why I brought up algae. Algae is incredibly important to the environment. It's really important. Three years already, damn. Thanks for providing the best content on YouTube and here's another 50 episodes. Love you, mubchly, fringled, and high rags. Thank you very much. Happy 150, boys. Been watching since the Captain Marvel saga, and even though I tried to save those for my work week I've always had a good time. Well, yeah, hopefully we can make the work week a little better. Yeah. And already we have ones from this stream coming in. I'm now going to bot between. The first one is everyone enjoying Smud Boy's Bizarre Adventure.  Fascinating, feels like a more. I'm still not 100% clear on how it started. What was it, Jay? What did what did the thing? So, um, the the quartering made a tweet being like, oh, I don't know who she is. She's shitting on the fans of Cowboy Bebop. Cowboy Bebop. Yeah. And one of the things that she brought up was like, oh, I'm sorry that like I don't have tits as big as the anime, right? Right. And I'm like, I think that's a fairly reasonable reason to shit on people if they're saying that. People saying that, that her tits weren't big enough. I imagine that that probably someone said that. Somebody, I could imagine somebody said it, but yeah, I can't see it being a common sentiment that people like. Yeah, because I've seen the pictures and she just doesn't really look like her. But of course. Anyway, um, Smud Boy tweets it with like, it's fine to critique the proportions of someone because anyway, sorry, I'm really my brain is fuzzy. I've just been vaccinated. And then so he like fundamentally the thing is okay.  Well, like I can distinctly show you a tweet where I say to him, I don't think it's okay for like, I don't think it's a valid criticism that an actress's breasts are too small. And he says, I disagree. And I'm like, it's all like, it's just all like, okay, maybe that's not what you meant to say, but it's what you said.  It's just like, I guess you can say that. So the second you say like that's a flaw, we'll be like, uh, we're in.    And he's just like, well, yeah. But then he will always want to say, I never said anything about boobs. I'm like, yeah, you never said anything yourself about boobs. You disagreed with people when they said that it's, that's a bad criticism. No, it's not. So it's like, it was just a while. Sounds really fun. No way. But how do they get to write? Oh yeah. So how, oh yeah. Right. That's that's the whole of the part of this. So someone brings up like, um, saying, okay, so appearance isn't that important when compared to characterization. And, uh, no, right. Uh, and they say, they just use as a classic example, just a perfectly reasonable example is like, if they cast a white guy to play Nick Fury, he would still be the same character. Right. You're like, yeah, yeah, that's true. We all in agreement that is true. I don't see, well, he'd be up to the writers, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.  And they'd work off the talents of that actor specifically. But you know, to give you an example in winter soldier when the police look at him weird, I think he said, doesn't he like make a comment that, um, like he's aware that he's black sort of thing. I'd hope he's aware he's black. My point is that, um, if you had a white guy, then that dialogue might be different. But I guess that one line would have changed. Yeah. No, I'm, I'm not saying anything would absolutely at all need to change. But, um, Yeah. But if anything changed would be on the basis of character writing, not anything to do with their immutable characteristics. Yes. The thing is that you can, there are loads of ways you can take that. If you just agree and be like, well, yeah, no, the character wouldn't change. But like, um, his appearance is still important aspect of the work or whatever. You know, there are loads of places you can take that if you want to, if you want to still argue that, no, appearance is really important. It's really important to get it spot on or it's, it's like, it's a bad, it's a flaw. If you don't, instead, he just, uh, he responds to this person saying, you know, Nick Fury would be, um, same character if he was white. He goes, hmm, interesting. So you think that a person's, well, hang on, let me find a quote.  No, you wouldn't want to, you wouldn't want to get this wrong. No, you wouldn't want to accidentally assume he said something far better than what he actually said. Let's have a look here. Um, these 150 super jack catchups are going great.  Where's it gone? Can't find it. Oh yeah. Okay. Here it is. So he said, uh, in response, he said, so a character's race says nothing about their behavior. No. Okay. Then we're done. Oh, that's so, that's not something you say on Twitter.com or anywhere. It's not something you say anywhere. It's just in the world. Oh no, don't say that. That's one of those you desperately like explain what you mean, explain what you mean to make it better than what you just said. That sure was a weird auto-correct your phone did there. He kept bringing stuff up about culture and he's like, he kept bringing up stuff like, well, you know, Italian people, they speak Italian. So that's, you know, something like, well, okay. So there are people who are Italian who are different races. There are people who aren't one who speak Italian. Yeah, Italian is not a race. Italian is a nationality. He contradicts himself so many times is then he's like saying, well, you know, it's culture. It's not specifically race. But then he was like, you know, but race, you know, like you've got to have, I mean, but someone's race does say stuff about the behavior. No, no, no, it doesn't. He's like, he can't separate. But then, then there's the final part, the quote. This is the final quote as well. So that last tweet had 130 quote tweets, but I wouldn't found it. So this one also has a hundred quote tweets. Someone says to him, actually say this to someone else, but he's also in the conversation. They say, you can't use race as a hint of someone's character, let alone in a work of fiction.  To which smud boy responds to this person saying, you can't use race as a hint of someone's character. He says, boy, you're going to love the IQ test results when grouped by race. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You need the Mario death sound. No, no, it's smud. Yeah. No. Stoffed. Oh, wow. That's the short version of the smud boy, Sagae. He went after a lot of different stuff as well and that, but you know, that's the, that's the highlights, I think. Oh, you upset me. Bring it in really to get out that's that so easily. Oh, and all I think I responded to with the, that first one was feels cringe, man. It's the expression for that. Well, is it worth mentioning why in case there are some further, further to a particular team of people in chat? I guarantee you there's at least one person in chat right now listening to us. Like, so what the truth here? Is that what you guys are saying? So the first point is why are you bringing up these statistics would be will always be the first question. Like, well, we have why in that context, he was bringing up specifically to prove that it makes a difference to your character. Yeah, which is that's the big bad right there. You don't meant to do that. That's what we call prejudice. Yeah. So it's it's the thing that I thought we all agreed is like not right. But yeah, there's always the question of why did you bring that up? But also, you don't want to open up that can of worms. No. You start trying to judge people based on their immutable characteristics, based on the statistical breakdown of what certain groups more often do. Like, you just ask, you know, I do that. Yeah, you're going to find some part that you don't like. Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely. Plus, it's way more complicated than you think it is. It's absolutely more complicated, because there's all these other factors that are pretty much absolutely more relevant than the immutable characteristics of people, which they can't control or change. And they're relevant. Someone actually super chat asking why it's not a good thing to say. Okay. Oh, no. That was your answer. Well, don't do it. Don't bring it up. Yeah. Plus, even if it was true, like, it doesn't change who they are or how you should value them as a person. Absolutely. Oh, it's not even relevant. What if it turned out that your five favorite people in the world were all actually stupider than five people you despise, like IQ-wise? So what does that mean to you? Yeah. Yeah. It turns out they're all black, too. Oh, no. Right, exactly.  It just isn't. No. I would like smart boys to take an IQ test.   And you're like, no, stop. Don't conclude. Statistically, you will eventually find a statistic that isn't too flattering for your arbitrarily chosen group. And so yeah. And these are all arbitrary, like, distinctions.  So do you want to bring up some, some man crime statistics? Right, exactly. Man statistics for like just violent crimes. Whoa, you know, men, it's- Get rid of all the men. Violet crime will go down significantly. I'm sure this, I'm sure there's someone like saying in chat as well, like, or, you know, your straw men explained, boy, he didn't actually say that, like, we need to act on these statistics. Like, yeah, we know, we know he didn't say that. I know he didn't say that. But why would you bring it up? If it's just like, what, do you want us to just chew over these numbers? Just think about it amongst yourselves. Again, I feel like we have the context. Like, what's the difference between a person who is, his black and isn't, or different skin colors?   Like, wow. Why would I look at it? Why? Why? That's, yeah, that's some, you don't want to go down that road. Okay, kind of, the thing is, he kept bringing stuff up like, well, you know, race indicates culture, and it's not a one-to-one relationship with culture, but it does indicate it. And you're like, well, okay, so what you're arguing there for is that culture determines stuff about your behavior. And the best you could do with this statement is to be like, if you see someone who looks Hispanic, you could, maybe they're more likely to have Hispanic culture? Well, yeah, you know, like if you see someone. It's still not useful enough, is it? Like, yeah, that's like the most you could possibly do with it. Like if you were gambling on a weird gambling game or whatever. That's the big thing. You don't know, because you don't know who they are. Well, yeah, then when you take the argument, I mean, first of all, he also like, while saying that he also, at the same time, disagreed with people saying, well, you know, it doesn't inherently change a behavior. And he's like, well, no. But then he would say stuff like, well, you know, it doesn't, he contradicted himself a lot, essentially. He disagreed with people who seemed to agree with him. Well, who agreed with like the tame version of what he was saying, but not with the less tame version. And then, oh, there was something else as well. Hang on. Brain, brain engage.  Um, well, yes. So, okay, the reason he was bringing this up was he was arguing that it's important to get a character's race right when you're adapting a work of fiction. And it's like, well, no, that's not how that works. Like, because the implication is, well, a white-nick fury wouldn't have done that. Well, yeah, those are the great examples of like, it's like, what? If you panic about a certain character being adapted with the wrong race, it's like, you could call that a concern in terms of how faithful it's going to be. But at the same time, it's like, this could still be the best adaptation of this character for all we know. Yeah, it's entirely possible. I guess it depends on your context, right?  Like, if you're telling a story that's meant to be about like a black guy living in, I don't know, like 1960s America and having issues, but he's white. It's like, I don't understand. You just be confused, right? You, like, you wouldn't understand what's happening. It's a weird adaptation argument or it would be an internal consistency argument. Yeah, there are always situations where whatever actually the character could be important to a story that they're in. And like, you know, when you're working with, when you're working with like, imagine a sci-fi set like, 10,000 years in the future, where like, okay, someone's race at that point is going to be based on entirely different culture to what we have today. So like, literally nothing will apply and people will still make these same arguments, right? No, there are no, like, pre-understood notions about like, who, what color comes from, like, what country's as a general rule, but not as an, like an inherent rule. You don't know. That's the, that's the big thing is you don't actually know. You don't know where they're from. People made these complaints about the Force Awakens. It's like, Black Storm Trooper. I don't remember what the complaints were specifically now. I'm like, man, literally a completely like, a completely divorced from Earth culture. Like, there's no, I don't even know, like, I don't even know. You have no point of reference to, yeah, there's no point of reference to that. I guess if like, if Star Wars was just set on Earth, like 30 years from now, then maybe you could argue that like, oh yeah, Finn should have experiences like, as a Black person living on Earth, because that, you know, whatever, there are experiences that you have as a certain race, that you can have as other races, but like, you know, when it's completely divorced setting, there are literally no... At that point, you have to develop your own rules for that universe. Yeah, I would say... You have to figure out what is the culture of this world. Do we care, do people in this world care about the races of species, or do they just care about species, you know? Yeah, as far as, as far as we can tell in Star Wars, people do not care about like, your human, like, skin color. It seems to be completely irrelevant in the Star Wars universe, which makes sense to me. Like, I imagine that if we got to the point with aliens, that would, that would start to become the thing we wouldn't care about. Someone said, uh, so what's your opinion on Black Anberlin then? That's hilarious that they chose to do that. Black Anberlin? Yeah, that's a thing they did in, uh, over in Britain. It's Black An... Anberlin is like, um... Oh, Anberlin! Oh, the historical thing, I remember that, yeah. So it's hilarious to make it Black. At the same time, a story could still be good. Like, really good.  It wouldn't be, it wouldn't be historically accurate. It would be, it would be weird. Yeah, so she's a real person who was white. At the same time, I don't know enough about that period of British history to be able to tell you that, uh, Henry VIII would not have married a Black person and that this could never have happened. Yeah, if you could have complications like that, yeah. Like, I don't, I don't know enough about the history of that period to be able to say the story wouldn't have gone the same way if she was, if she was Black. I mean, I assume there would have been certain differences to how stuff would have gone because I don't imagine that no one cared in any way, right? Mm-hmm. But uh... At that period in time, yeah, no way. Like, that wouldn't have been... But again, it is the, that has to be the adaptation or like, alt history or just difference, you know, world, different things. Yeah, like, if they wanted to tell the same story but simultaneously say, well, Black and White makes no difference at that point in their version, like, everybody was, you know, all in harmony, skin color-wise, then you can still... There's gonna be a lot of good points to gain from that storyline, even if you remove the race element. I feel like if we don't look at it like that, then a lot of alt history gets, like... Absolutely, yeah. ...what we do with that. What happens with Wolfenstein and Inglorious Bust and a whole host of stories? With a, with a Jeb piled on that one, for me, I swear to God, like... We are, yes, Jeb piled on adaptation, old history and historical... We're trying to rescue Inglorious Bastards from you crazy people. We don't need to kill it. Yeah, but I don't want to live in the world wearing Glorious Bastards as flawed because it's not accurate to what happened in history. Like, that's, I don't like that. Same for once upon a time in Hollywood too. Yes, and yeah, a lot of stories. Assassin's Creed. So here's the thing, I want to see chat. I want to see how many people are mad about Black Anne Boleyn or people who think that that shouldn't have been done, right? I want to see, like, a little wand in chat if you think that that's, that was a bad thing to do. All right, okay, let's give them a second to type. Oh, okay.  Like, probably... Also, like, no, no, I'm just like... I mean, so if you think that that's, I don't know, gonna result in a bad work. And like a two if you think, no, that's fine. Right, I mean... I mean, I don't even know if I would describe it as fine.  I don't know the...  Right, here's the thing. People who said wand in chat, I now want to see you put, like, an A or a B in the chat.  I doubt any of them have seen it. Well, yeah, because it's like, man, that could be... Like, this could literally just be an alt history story.  I'm seeing a few Bs. I haven't seen a decent number of Bs. I can't remember which one I said was which. I think you said A was you've watched it and B isn't you've watched, is that you haven't watched it. No, sorry, A is you haven't watched it, B is you've watched it, I think. Is that a thing people watch this? Wait, am I... No, someone in the chat, was it... What was it? Was it A that you haven't watched it or B that you have? And B that you... Oh my God. Someone said, imagine making Martin Luther King white. Okay, so the difference there is that his race was very important to like... Imagine the story you're telling related to Martin Luther King is gonna be about his civil rights.   What's the jerk? The movie with the... What's his name? I forget his name. He did the Steve Martin. Oh yeah. Is that his name? The comedian? That's a funny movie. He was raised by black people, but he was a white guy. By the way, the chat's clarified, B meant you hadn't seen it, so most people hadn't seen it. Right. So it was in like... There are so many things that that could be. Also, I mean... Well, yeah, that's an interesting thought, isn't it? It could be great and you wouldn't know it, right? And yeah, that person's like saying something about Martin Luther King. He's like, yeah, Amberlynn, correct me if I'm wrong on this. I studied her when I was a child in like a unit in school. I don't know much about Amberlynn, but I do not, to my understanding, believe that it's culturally significant that she was a white person. I can't confirm that. I don't remember. Well, what time was she alive in what era? When was Henry VIII a thing? Wasn't he like the 17th century? Sorry, was he... He was 18th century, right? So the 1700s, that... No, I thought... I think he was earlier than that. I think he was the 1400s, I want to say. 1500s? Yeah, early 1500s. People are saying... No, people are saying... Okay, so apparently Henry was... I would just count a lot! ...1500s. So yeah, 1500s. Okay, so it was a lot earlier than I thought. Jeez. I just knew that he was Queen Elizabeth I's father and that she was on the throne at the time of Shakespeare and Shakespeare was 1500s. That was my logic called adduction. Right. Nice deduction, bruh. Thank you. Got more super chats in than we've managed to catch up on. Well, we do, yeah. You know, I find the conversation interrestarone and just where a line's drawn exactly, you know? I saw someone say the way that they look like in terms of the character is going to be the most important thing for adaptation. I was like, I would... If I had to break it into two brackets they will look just like them or they will be just like them. The comparison to make would be Resident Evil movie that they have Leon in it. He looks pretty good, as does a lot of the stuff in the Paul W.S. Anderson movies in terms of comparison to the game, but they have nothing to do with the games at all. And so is that even worth it? Like, what? I would say that it is an aesthetic thing, which is... that's fine. But if I was more interested in an adaptation, I wanted it to be more like the thing I liked. I'd care a lot more that it was like that substantially. I assume that I'm investing the character because of the character, not because I really like the way they look. Yeah, because it's something that looks like them and has their name.  Yeah, but they're dumb. Jay, can't say that. It's very rude. Just make Lincoln black. I mean, uh... Do it. That's the... I want to see that actually. He had a steam draft career before he became president. MC Lincoln. Yeah, he had an illustrious career. Visuals matter in a visual medium, for fuck's sake. Man, remember when Fringy said visuals don't matter in a visual medium? And then Jay agreed and Rags agreed and I agreed. What? It's really... I always get a bit fr... Because I occasionally see like, oh, that's a straw man thing. It's like, so first of all, like when we're talking about a subject and I'm not addressing any one specific argument directly, it's not a straw man. I'm bringing up a point and then trying to repeat that specific... But also, man, I'm charitability right there. None of us said it. So I'm like, I just... I don't take it seriously. I'm like, you have fun with whatever you're... You're fighting ghosts over there. What have you invented that fight expectors, all right? Die, Spector. That sounds like the kind of person who would unironically argue that like they forgot to put color in Shindler's list. What do you mean? They haven't read. I thought it was just like budgetary concerns, like Wizard of Oz. Well, the technology wasn't available yet in 1994, 1993, 23, I think it was three. You've got to get those jokes accurate, right? What if you... What if like... So what if someone has different visual priorities to you? What if someone... What if someone thinks... So what if someone literally thinks they've cast the most visually appealing person to play them? They look different from the adaptation, you know, the thing they're adapting. Well, think about the examples we actually have. A lot of superhero stuff, when it gets adapted, they change the costumes because they think the costumes look too silly. X-Men. Yeah. So that's not visuals not mattering. That's visuals being treated with different sensibilities to yours. In this universe, yeah. And so... And what if we all agreed on it? What if we're like, yeah, that thing does actually pretty goofy? So I'm glad they changed it to this. It's like, what happens then? That was that was bad. That was not faithful to the adaptation, right? And someone in the chat mentioned they can't claim to be historically accurate. That's like, yeah, sure. I don't think many movies do. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Okay, okay, okay. So did the Black Anne Boleyn show go this is historically accurate and Boleyn was Black? Well, I feel like this is...  Like, I'm not going to lie.  You're not going to lie at all. Yeah. What did they do in Battlefield V? What didn't they do in Battlefield V? I bought British women with like a prosthetic arm on the battlefield in the Netherlands. It's like, dude, this is... So the problem there is it's like, so could you criticize that objectively in terms of this game? It's like, no, it's just, I don't like that. I actually do like it when you're trying to be accurate in like a story. If they committed to it, you'd probably be okay with it. If it was like a Wolfenstein. If it was an old history. Yeah. If it was full old history. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. If it was full old history and we were just doing a totally different thing, then I think it would set at the time like I'd be totally cool with that. But like, you're almost trying to tread this line where it's like, no, we're being authentic. It's like, hmm, that's interesting. Plus a lot of people really wanted a World War II Battlefield game again. And they were like, they felt like and reasonably so that it was kind of being ruined. Like you finally went back to World War II for a Battlefield game. That doesn't the roots of the series.  Well, and I remember the thing is, because people are battlefields not realistic in terms of its physics and gameplay. It's like, now I think it was something that I like total biscuit said there's like a difference between realism and authenticity. Realism is trying very hard to directly emulate a particular environment this game. Yeah. Like you're trying the guns are realistic. Sounds very realistic. And that authentic is it feels like it's real. But yeah, I don't feel the one's a great example. It's very authentic. Yeah. It's not realistic, but it's authenticity. Authenticity is just a big subjective category then. Yeah. I would say that you oh, well, I would say that there's definitely a lot of objective statements you can make about authenticity when it comes to the items inside of it. And when those items did or did not exist. And oh, yeah, yeah. Of course, like what is like, is it like this place? Was there a battle? Isn't that a question of realism then? And you have to subject to what parts of realism now realism would be more the application. So for instance, in battlefield one, there are prototype weapons that were never actually used in the war. However, the at least one did exist and was it did exist on the earth during that time. It is authentic to the time period that it exists. But it's not realistic. It is not realistic to see it and to use it in battles and stuff like that. So like you're capturing, you're capturing something from that period of time and representing it in a way that is true to what it was. But you're not making a meaningful effort to like, because battlefield one was realistic.  Like that would be the or that would be the realistic battlefield World War One. Sometimes, yeah. Game. Whereas this is it would just be all artillery and yes, yeah. We're trying to evoke the vibe or the atmosphere, the feeling of this particular place and these weapons and these people. But this is not, we're not trying to be realistic. You don't have to worry about weapons jamming. You don't have to worry about being deaf because it's so loud that you can't hear anything. They would do things like how they balance bayonet charges as a mechanic and cavalry. And there's a lot of really nifty stuff. But I would say it's pretty authentic, but it's not at all realistic. Yeah. And so basically all I was saying on that point is I just didn't like that choice for Battlefield 5. I didn't like it. Which is, I feel like that's a different thing to say than it's like, well, this is bad. It's like, well, they can do this if they want and it could have great art assets and it could work totally fine. It's like, that's not what I wanted from Battlefield 5. See, someone said, if you make an historically based drama, historical accuracy would be a requirement. It's like, what about old history? The whole genre. Historically based. So there are always going to be things that are not historically accurate and you're historical drama. Yeah. And then some people would be like, well, you got to get the important things right. And then it's like, well, what if I'm deliberately changing the important things because I want to explore what would happen?  I feel like you could apply it to things like- What if T'Challa convinced Hitler that Holocaust wasn't the answer? I mean, you could apply it to things like, well, why are all these Romans speaking English? They didn't speak English. They should be speaking Latin. Why are they speaking English? That's not historically accurate. And be like, well, that's a language barrier. It's like, ah, so there are reasons why you would make changes then, depending on what objective you have. Yeah, but that's just a practical- Like, some people understand what the thing said. Well, like I mentioned, like it may be the thing. Well, no, no. I wouldn't say that it's practical in a certain sense. But I mean, there are certain, I'm pretty sure there is like a German show that is set in that period where like the Germans are speaking German, but the Italians are speaking Latin instead of German. I believe that exists. Well, it serves a particular practical purpose, is my point, to translate. Yeah, sure, definitely. And the same way that- Okay, so if you had like a group doing a historical drama about Amberlynn, and they don't have like, they're like, they're a very limited team. They're a very small group of people. Three hyper cringe comments in a row, I have to address.  If you make an historical drama, you should keep it historically accurate. But what if it wasn't a historical drama? Come on, Molo, that's another genre. So keep everything the same. Everything. To real life, except one thing. Is it binary? It can only be historically accurate or not. And therefore, as soon as you are slightly inaccurate, you are no longer an historical drama. What does that even mean? I feel like a good example would be, what if you tell a World War II story where the main character didn't necessarily exist, that they are in a place where a bunch of other people- Well, not a historical drama anymore.  Then you go, it's so fun to hear Molo advocate for the new Star Wars trilogy. Where are you? What planet are you on? It's not authentic. It's not historically accurate. I heard the same- I remember the same stuff when we were talking about the adaptation thing, where we were talking about the changes you make and people were like, oh, so you're okay with the new Lord of the Rings? It's like, well, that show could be bad, but not for the reasons you're giving. And then, to tip it all off, then it's not a historically based drama, is it, Molo? Okay, I guess Inglourious Bastards isn't a drama. I'm glad we've achieved this. It's not historically based. I love this genre. Well, I was about to say, Inglourious Bastards has to be historically based. There's nothing else you could call it, and it's a drama. But rip that because it's not 100% accurate.  Aston's Creed isn't historical drama, even though it is all about history. Like, I know there's a lot of Wombo brains in chat about this topic, and we have to deal with them every once in a while, but like, my God, guys, you gotta get, you gotta open up the brain tubes on this one. We're so like, 1917. Those events didn't literally happen, but it's still a historical drama. Absolutely, and this is the thing, most of us don't even know what the inaccuracies are in a lot of movies that really do it well.  No, no, no, no. Historical drama with mistakes isn't an old history drama. What if they aren't mistakes? What if they were on purpose? I don't think they accidentally cast a black person to play. I don't think they accidentally killed Hitler in Glorious Bastards. These were conscious decisions that were made. And like, what does it even matter if we're changing the definitions? The genre that you were in does not define how good or bad you are is a story. That's true.  It doesn't matter. It does not matter whether you say it's old history or it's historical drama. It doesn't change whether or not it is actually good. Whether or not you like it, whether or not you would want to watch it because it's historically accurate or not, totally different. That's totally fine. Just say you don't like it. That's fine. Yeah, and what I'm trying to put out here because the people trying to like obviously point out to me is like, well then, well, that's the difference between old history and historical drama. I'm like, you decide this once you are told the details. Most, if not all, movies that are historical based are going to have to be considered old history now because I have no idea what the line is for historical inaccuracy of which all of these films will have. What you'll find is most of them do it because of the fact that the story doesn't work if they stick to the accuracies for pacing reasons or for the events like as they unfold just don't like run properly or different people in different places. What does it even matter if we're changing the definitions?  I don't even know what you're responding to. The point is that whatever you define it as being doesn't change what it is in terms of its quality. Like, if you were looking at Star Wars, you're like, that's science fiction. No, that's science fantasy. No, that's just pure fantasy. What difference does it make meaningfully to your experience of watching it? Yeah.  Well, here's the thing.  Whereas with old history, they don't get to say that. I don't think... They want to be able to call it bad. I don't think they'll be happy, though, because if we simply say the Ambulin thing, it's like all you can say about that is it's old history. They'd be like, well, no, it's bad, though. Can you be like, ah. And then at that point, it's like, ah, okay. You just don't like it. That's fine. It's the thing I want to see. I love old history stuff. It's fun. I like old history a lot, yeah. I can hop on the stream, expect to spend like half an hour defending the perspective Black Ambulin. Yeah, I want to see the old history where Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. Yeah, that it doesn't matter. Ray can use the Force to heal. You are so lost. You've like, you've ran off into the woods. Where do you think you are? What is happening? The equivalent with Star Wars is if someone adapted it into a TV show and redid it all, and then said everyone could use Force heal. There's nothing that we would complain about if that was a constant. That'd be fine. So what you're talking about there is internal consistency with itself. So like in one scene, Anbulin was Black, and then in the next scene, she was White. That would be the equivalent there. He's transracial. I'm glad that you guys figured out what that argument was, because like I couldn't have done, I couldn't have spotted the connection there. Feels weird because like we've been advocating for this for so long, like internal consistency. But they're like, if you don't respect everything that has happened in history, then that's bad.  Bad standard. Go away. Nobody likes you. Yeah, I'm just a radical. I'd be like, if someone was like, they're going to make the Emperor Woman in the new Star Wars TV show adaptation, I'd be like, all right, see how it goes. Let's see how it goes. But fundamentally people like, I see like a book.  Everyone at this point sees a change to like a character's race or gender as like a political move.    It's like, yeah, I'm doing a Star Wars remake with Empress Palpatine. You wouldn't care. Like, and the only, like the, like the closest reason that you would care is like, oh, I don't like, maybe it's, it might feel different if Palpatine is a woman. Like that's the extent that you, that it will go. Someone in chat just said, Jay is the leftist. How did they figure that out? I thought you kept that secret. Well, it's like defined leftist. Yeah, that's true. Social plot on your hat. I think, I think my favorite part was how just before that same person said, you just avoided the whole thing with straw man. I'm out from this stupidity. Straw man is the most oversight and logical fallacy. Yeah, you just free just as you said that. I just read someone say, nice straw man wall and no one said historical fiction is bad. It's like, dude. What? So suddenly enough, there's going to be people who say that. 100%. Any, but any kind of historical fiction is bad because it takes away from the real events. Someone can make that argument. There's no way that that's not a thing. So Jay is left handed. Oh, no. Calm down.  Now, see, someone else is Jay is a deconstructionist. Can you, can you define that for me scapegoat? Can you, can you deconstruct that for me? Well, I mean, Can you deconstruct that for me? And explore what it truly means to be a deconstructionist. Yes. Yeah. Nice straw man. Let me follow it up with an obvious straw man. That's how it feels. Please stop. Please stop using straw man. I implore you. Stop. It's so over-sided. There are so many to, like, if you, here's a good clarifying one. If you ask someone a question and you don't like that question because it makes it difficult for you to answer, that's not the straw man. That's just a good question. Yeah. On the, on the thought of, if only there was less cringe in terms of, especially statements from like writers and directors making it clear exactly what their goals are and then we see the results and we're like, you, if only we're in a world where we had more examples of Nick Fury, we're just like, oh, the content you really like, that's actually an annotation where the character was race swapped slash gender swapped slash whatever. And it turns out it all worked just fine. Everyone was fine with it.  Okay, cool. So it is like, we had loads of good examples of that. We'd be much further along in this conversation, but we're still stuck all the way back at like, the content will automatically be boycotted the second they don't adapt it like faithfully, which sucks. Well, I'll, I'll throw my bone a bit. I will say that the, like, I totally understand why people instantly are super like jaded and cynical about all these things because of how like the, the obvious political messaging that companies and stuff do when they do stuff like this. Yeah. So it makes them reasonably believe that quality isn't the key. So when we see stuff like this happening, we think, oh, well, you're just doing it for political reasons, not because of an actual passion. And you're not putting, you know, quality first. You're trying to put messaging first. So what I said at the beginning of the whole thing was if only we weren't in the world we're in, where it's so clear that they do it all for those reasons. You know. So that's, yeah. It's, it's, yeah, I, I think it's just, it's just, I hate this kind of like landscape.  Abraham Lincoln, the vampire hunter was a documentary. The thing, um, most if not all movies, I don't think they would be qualified as like in any way, like a documentary. They can be educational for sure, but like, man, because they're movies, they change a lot about the thing that they're covering. Isn't an interesting part though about, even if you're presenting a documentary, the information you choose to present, changes people's perception of that particular event. Like I feel like the easy one would be if you played a wildlife documentary and you play really serene music to like a polar bear lighting waste to a seal. It's like, that gives a different interpretation than if you played really evil ominous music, despite the fact that it is entirely neutral in terms of like the process that's happening. Like a morality thing. And that applies to, yeah, exactly. And that, it's the whole idea of like your interpretation is what makes it good or bad. It's a difference like on a flat level. But these are the decisions that need to be made when you're creating a documentary. You've got to present something and kind of the same with the story as well that's based in history. Whose POV are you telling it from? Are you telling it from like the commanders or the soldiers or the civilians and from which country in which, what do they think about this particular issue? There's a whole lot that sort of factors into how people will perceive the messaging of that story. But you have to make these decisions, even if you're trying to do something that's historically accurate. The POV that you present it from will change how people interpret the clinical facts. It's kind of the same with like statistics. Again, the statistics are true, but which ones you're looking at, how you frame them, all of these affect people's interpretations of those statistics. Someone said race is a big thing to change that really depends on the context in which you're changing, like it depends on the character and the story as well. Yeah, because surely people would have said it's going to change a lot to, I don't know, theoretically, what if Wolverine was black? I feel like you could keep everything the same for the most part. Yeah, it's like what if Nick Fury was white or Indian or Asian? It's like, oh, same story pretty much. Well, I mean, or the interesting one, what if you had a story where there are people of different races, but you just totally flip them backwards? Like everything is just flipped.   If he was the only black person. Oh, no. Oh, no, chat. You forget that people don't care about pacing characters or plot. What matters is theme and the theme is history. Now, I hope that you're like memeing. I hope that you're memeing. I hope you're memeing because people say the same thing about TLJ. All right. People say the same exact thing. It's about the theme, the internal consistency, the plot and the characters. That's not, it's what matters is the message that you're trying to get across. So I hope that you were just like joking and you didn't mean that. Well, if Nick Fury was white and had a similar personality, yes. Yeah, so yeah, if he was, if he had a different personality, then that would be the change. That would be different. That would be different, like, yeah. It's like, at that point, it would still be a big change if you didn't change his race. It's like, if you changed, if you changed someone's race, it's a big change. Well, what if it isn't a big change? Well, if you change something else, big it is. Yeah, I disagree. Isn't, wait, somebody brought up Hamilton as an example. What exactly is the deal with Hamilton? Isn't Hamilton like a very good example of this exact thing at play? It's like a really... Yeah, everyone's black, I guess. Well, I guess that's the interesting thing, right? It's like, I always hear that that musical is excellent just from all of the production standpoint, the acting, the music and everything. It's not historically accurate, though. Yeah, you know, they didn't actually sing in history like that? Oh, or rap? Yeah, they did. Or rap musical? They absolutely did. They, the founding fathers had musicals going on all the time. Yeah. You know, the original Constitution was written in verse. It rhymes, actually. I like the idea that while they were writing it and trying to figure out how to amend it and everything that was singing as well, it's like, should we include this specific line? It's like, can you rewrite that? And it's all in song. It was like, it'd be really amusing. I've just seen a chat that's like, I don't, I feel like this person is trying to satirize something, but I don't understand, I don't understand what angle you're coming from. What? Small brain, Jay. So they say, Jay, it's 2021, mate. The Black Hitler movie could happen. But Brie Larson and Brie Larson would be cast to play Hitler. Brie Larson plays Black Hitler. She plays a Black female Hitler? Do it. Man, let's, uh, again, that feels like in an S film discourse. Yeah, that's a lot of the trailer. Brie Larson is Black Hitler. I would probably watch that film.  I don't care how bad it's, 10 out of 10. Don't even need to see it. That's going to be a funny, bad film. Like, it's a Zen out of Zen. There's no way that that isn't just going to be an engaging experience in some way. It's like I in Sky. Have anyone here seen I in Sky? I have not. Which one? Who's in there? Um, is it Jude Law? Who's in it? Um, maybe. Uh, let's see. It's the one about Nazis living under the moon. Oh, I have not seen. Also, it's a historical film. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's a historical film. I in Sky. I remember just seeing the trailer for it. I'm thinking whatever kind, however this film ends up going, this is going to be a thoroughly engaging watch because you just see the trailer and it's like, it starts, it's like the main character. It's like the Sarah Palin stand in. And it's like, and she's talking about how there are Nazis living on the moon. And then it cuts to like Nazi UFOs coming down to earth from the moon. And like, I don't care what actually happens in this film, it's going to be entertaining. Like, there's no, there's no way I could get to the end of this film and go, well, that was boring. Oh, someone. I think there's a, uh, all right, all right. I'm thinking of Sky Captain the Wild Tomorrow. That's true. Ah, yeah. That was a film. I wonder if it's, it's, what were they, what were they saying about that film? Just that that's what I was thinking of and they're right. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That might be worth a rewatch someday. It's a weird one, but sure. It's an odd one. That's why. That's the thing. You've got movies. Yes. But I am Sky. That sounds like a, that sounds like a ride. Is any of the famous people in that? I don't think so. All right, let's have a look. That's the show. I don't think any famous people wanted to touch that, honestly. That could be any fat movies right there. I am Sky. Well, some people brought up the black Superman that are on their way. And it's like, the thing is, if they 100% adapted your favorite Superman story, but only changed the skin color and the skin color, obviously, of the cans, I guess at that point, like, I could still work, right? I mean, is it secret that the cans adopted him? Because like, then... Oh, you're right.  True. Then again, oh well. I mean, I guess you could say, like, yeah, it might be hard for them to explain it if... He's adopted.  We could just make him black, whatever. It helps my point, I think, if they're black as well. That's really Superman. No, the analogy is what if it was just Clark Kent. Like, everything you know to be Clark Kent's characteristics are in this character, except he's also black, because the problem is, if you think that's an impossibility or whatever, it's like we get into dangerous territory. Mm-hmm. Um, because, you know, it could... That is not a different character. That is a different actor playing the same character, and like, unless you actually start bringing in things where, like, his race impacts him in his life. No, we're not talking about Val'zot, we're talking about literally it's Clark Kent, and it's an adaptive-perfect adapt, kind of all-star Superman or something, but... I haven't even made a statement as to whether or not, because it sounds to me then that their conclusion is, okay, yes, it would be good, but he's not Clark Kent, which gets back to the whole Spider-Man shit, so I'm just like, I don't know. Ah. So that's an arbitrary line you're drawing. I feel like that doesn't... What if... That's almost a different conversation, though. That's the adaptation stuff versus the whether or not you can race swap. It's like, okay, okay, so what if... What if he's not Black, he's blonde, right? Superman is a blonde in the comics. Is he still... Or is he still... Or does that not matter? Yeah, that's... Okay, what if he's 5'7"? What if he's got no teeth? Does that matter? He's got dentures. He has super guns. He has super guns. It's never mentioned in the film, it's just the actor playing him has no teeth, and you can sort of see it in a couple of shots.  It's probably gonna be poorly written regardless. And... What is this film? It's JJ Abrams' is making a Black Superman movie, as far as I know. Which I believe it's meant to be not Val Zod or whatever. Yeah, there's also Val Zod coming out. Yes, on the HBO Max, I think that's Michael B. Jordan attached to it. Imagine telling Black people that Blackness isn't a part of them. Man, is that... No, part of them... It's... Yeah. What are you... I... You're... I'm not even sure what I'm meant to do with that. Like... You should tell Black people just the same as every other race that the race doesn't define who they are. They do. Why would... Are you saying that as if you don't think that there's anybody in the world who doesn't like... No, I don't know. I know. Rai, why race swap? I'm asking good faith. I agree with you. I don't... You really find a reason that you needed to do that, but if you found an incredible actor and he's just a different race, like, well... He's just the right fit, though. He does it so well. Something like that. It's true. Idris Elba is not a... A kidner. Yeah, so like... That's true. If, um...  I don't know, I've got like... Fucking... Uh... Fucking... I'm blanking on the name of this actor. What's the... Lex Luthor from, uh... B.V.S. Oh, Jesse Eisenberg? Eisenberg? Yeah. Jesse... Okay, so you've got your casting Bond, and the people who are interested... Like, you know... So, well, the people who are interested in this role that you can feasibly get within your budget are Jesse Eisenberg, Michael Sarah, and like Idris Elba. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Who are you picking? Okay, so like, I... I raise you your why race swap, like, point with, like... Why, uh, avoid doing it? Like, there's no function to... Unless it... Unless a character's race is important to that ca... Like, not only... The story that you want to tell, specifically. Yeah, to the story that you want to tell. Then there is no reason not to cast someone of a different race to play that character. Like, just play... Like, just... Just, you know... Look at all the acts that you have available. And choose the one who best suits the role.  Geez. The sand bird. How'd you manage that? In fairness, um, I'm very... I'm reading lots of chat right now. A combination of interested and disappointed. But you just said it's part of some... Not part of someone's identity? No. Yeah, so what? Okay, so being five-seven is part of your identity, but that doesn't mean that you can't, like, cast a five-seven person to play, like, a six-foot tall character. Well, I mean, I feel like a good example. Isn't Wolverine in the comics, like, five-foot-six? Hugh Jackman is six-point-six-two. Yeah. So, like, it's something that's commented on in the media a lot, is that, like, Wolverine is a short guy. So, like, being a... Like, every, like, aspect of who you are physically and, like, who you are mentally is gonna be part of your identity, but, like, you don't need a strict one-to-one to tell the same story about, like, the same kind of... Like, you know, about the same character. Because ultimately, if you're adapting something, it's not going to be literally the same person that it was before. If you're casting a different actor to, um, you know... Or if, like, let's say it's a comic and you're casting an actor to play a comic book character, it's not literally going to be the same as the comic. They're probably... I feel like... You know, unless someone was... You found, like, a perfect casting where they're an amazing actor, they capture the spirit of the character perfectly, and they look identical to how they were drawn on the page. It's gonna be something different. I find that the interseble Michael Sarra, like, Jesse Eisenberg, one interesting because it really highlights the thing. It's like, well, no, what you really want is the person who captures the essence of the character that you're creating or adapting. Like, you don't really care what they are, what they look like. In terms of, you know... Yeah, I'm sure they do. We're seeing that right now. Yeah, maybe, true. I guess it's the whole idea that the immutable characteristics matter a whole lot less than, like, whether they can actually embody the personality of that person, which I feel like that just highlights the thing, right?  I'm all in so good faith. What if a documentary lies and provides lies as facts? Discovery did this and created political movements from it. Discovery's not... If someone's Star Trek Discovery, that's not a documentary, dude. That didn't happen. Do they mean the Discovery Channel? Oh, well, that... Discovery in the Channel. If we're talking about... That's documentary. Yeah, if we're talking about documentaries that lie to people, that's bad. So, historical dramas aren't actually documentaries. No, they're not. Well, I'll raise them.  And they're doing it because it gets people more interested and more engaged to think that this stuff actually happened. Well, that sounds bad. Well, I think that's a really interesting conversation. Should we at this point assume all movies are absolutely not representative of real life in terms of... We shouldn't take anything for granted in terms of fact. And thus, they can do whatever they want in their medium. There's like a... They can say everything in here is true and they still don't have responsibility to do anything about that. Or... Is it like... You know, there's a line and they can cross it. Documentaries are absolutely... They've got a whole different set of like parameters for how... What they should be doing.  This is the thing, right? Some people like... Why would anyone think Inglorious Bastards actually happened? Everyone knows how Hitler died. It's like, no, they don't. Especially as time goes on, less and less people will know.  The story of how Hitler died is insane. It's like...  How it goes in there. What is the thing? Like, I don't know how like fucking... Genghis Khan died. The team should remove the comma. All right, died. About Fargo, by the way, like... I find it all very interesting. And apparently the original had a comma in it. It's a real... And then comma story. But the show removed the comma. It's like, that's... So it became a lie. It's like, the thing is, it's all in universe, right? Which someone argues like that's a title credits thing. I don't know. That's why it's fiction, lol. I mean, that's... That sounds like it just bolsters our point, right? Documentaries aren't fiction. Well, they're not supposed to be. The film Downfall is great. I've heard that. I've been meaning to watch that one. Downfall is the German one, if it's the one that got memed, but it's actually like a great film. Yeah. Only over here good things about it. I mean, I feel like, surely... Isn't it like a lot of the films that get memed are just really good? Like, that's why there's to come so much like... Like the prequels. Thank you. Thank you more. It's almost like I 100% care. I'm very curious what they're responding to. Well, I imagine JJ Abrams made the best Superman story. Like the writing was just top-notch Superman, you're super consistent. Then we actually have a really difficult conversation on our hands for everybody. Imagine he's... No, it wouldn't be difficult. It'd be like, this is great. That's... And like, that's it. I think you underestimate how many people will be ignoring that film's quality for the race. Well, as in like... As in, like, do you mean it would be like a diff... The discourse would be difficult because I don't think it would be difficult for us to... Not for us.  I don't feel like it might be. I feel like the film's gonna be just... Wait, so when you say us, I thought you meant when we talked to each other. Yeah, yeah. So, okay, so... Yeah, if it's just an excellent film, and we're like, yeah, that was excellent.  Also, oh my god, can you believe this? It's probably gonna easily be better than Man of Steel. Nah, yeah, of course it will. I don't even know how much of a maybe that is. Like, I'd put money on that.  JJ Abrams. Yeah. Zack Snyder. I believe... I believe that JJ Abrams is more... more capable of telling a sound story. Like, you know what? I believe that it absolutely could be better, but I still am very aware of JJ Abrams' ability to fail. What if it was amazing? What if it was amazing and JJ Abrams went on talking about... Yeah, this is... I feel the first film I've ever got to make that was truly my film. Oh my. You know, I got full creative control here. I wanna see that happen. I wanna see JJ Abrams' actually genius, but he's just been cut so long. That would be the thing I mentioned. Man of Steel is just awful. Well, it is funny because we get influxes right of new people every once in a while. Like, I saw it was a post of the day of like, why does EFAP crew not like Winter Soldier?  Nope. You can't watch the new EFAP stuff without watching the full 150 episodes, every mini and every movies to understand all the contacts. Exactly. You're no all of our hot takes. That poor soul. JJ won't finish the movie.  You know, that'd be neat. I feel like it's just gonna be really superficial. Well, so this is the thing, refresh me. JJ, has he ever made a movie that we all consider good? There's Mission Impossible 3, okay? That's the problem. I haven't seen it so long now that I'm not sure if it... I know that Philip Seymour Hoffman's fantastic in it, but that's not really enough to say it's a good movie. So what was his break up? But he's great in basically everything, so... Yeah. He's particularly intimidating in that movie though. What else? People don't like this much, right? Is Super 8 any good? I haven't seen Super 8. I haven't seen that either. Super 8 might be worth a watch, because I mean, I saw it and it was like, I don't really remember what I thought of it to be fair, but it was glorious. I don't remember liking it. Someone said Lord of the Rings. JJ did a big there. Yeah, it's not chat-chat, that ultimately reliable source of information. Is Super 8 any good? Yeah. Someone said Super 8 was okay. You wouldn't lie to us, chat, would you? Yeah. Are they gonna watch JJ's work after the Star Wars sequels? That's very fair. Yeah, no, this is the thing. Rise of Skywalker was possibly his worst film ever. That's pretty fair, right? Well, I guess unless you think TFA was worse. Unless, I mean, I'd have to re-watch the Star Trek films he's done. Oh, good point, yeah. I think Into Darkness was the one that people hated the most out of the three, right? I've always heard that. I don't think he directed the third one. I've heard the third one is the best. That's what I've heard. That's what I've heard as well. He didn't make it, so that's interesting. I could have sworn like the first one.  Well, here's the thing, because the Star Trek movies are a great example of the adaptation argument, because for me, they really do not capture the spirit of like why I watched Star Trek. I watched Star Trek for like essentially, you know, a great episode of Star Trek to me will put like a moral proposition and then thoroughly explore it through like its characters. And it will explore a moral idea with excellent character writing along the way, and you know who all these people are and what they believe and stuff, right? Whereas the J.J. Abrams films are these like bombastic space adventures of like, look, shooting, guns. But like if they were good films, I'd still stand by them and be like, yeah, these are good films. I just don't appeal to me in the same way that actually, you know, original Star Trek films. Well, Plinkett's set of videos on the Star Trek movies are pretty good and he goes over how they've been like Star Wars-ified, to a degree, the J.J. Abrams ones. And that's- I feel like that's mean to Star Wars to say, but you know. Well, maybe not anymore. You know, it's funny enough in those videos he recommended J.J. Abrams should be making Star Wars movies and he's gone on to regret saying that significantly. Whoopsie. Yeah, you can't blame him. He didn't know. He said that J.J. Abrams should be making movies cringe. And but I like, I see the next which had to read out and just like, yep, any second now I'm gonna say it. I guess there's no point in delaying. I'm a big fan of Metal's blowhole. There you go. I don't even know. Maybe Metal's got some biology going on that I'm unaware of. People, I didn't expect this a lot of controversy in chat right now about how good the Trek movies are, J.J.'s Trek movies. Really? I'd say I'd have to re-watch them. What are you still? See people are saying that they're not faithful to Star Trek but they are good in their own right. Yeah, that's the case. I won't pretend they're bad films but I don't remember that being the case. But to be fair, I did watch them when I was like 13.  But again, to be fair, when I'm like 13, these things, well, I've become a Star Trek fan retroactively after watching those films and then going back to like TNG. Like, I'd seen some TNG episodes before I watched those films but I didn't care about them. You know, I didn't really like understand this is what I go into a Star Trek episode to get out of it. I was like, yeah, this is a show I've seen sometimes. But like, I was 13, I remember thinking, yeah, that film wasn't very good. When I was 13, man, you had to do a lot wrong for me to be like, mm-hmm. Yeah, because you were like super forgiving.  You thought that the TFA was good. I liked Transformers 2. John, my god. I needed a reference from the TLJ rage video. And when I was letting the video play while I was grabbing something I needed, I heard myself say the throne room scene was like the best part and it's amazing and stuff. I was like, oh my god. When I first saw TLJ, I was convinced the throne room scene was still pretty good. How naive. How naive. I should take release of Johnson. That just sounds like you're getting him circumcised. I don't know. Someone said the blowhole thing is referencing BattleStream from today. It's like, okay.  Shame. I can understand that reaction. Don't worry. Me and Fringy know what that means. I'm still addicted to Doom Eternal. I love it. Fair enough. I still haven't played it. I still got around to that one day. Finished Angel Season 5 today. So much better than 4. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's a lot better. Yeah. Try getting into Buffy and Angel Comics. It's even worse than Angel Season 4. So as far as I'm concerned from everything I've heard about those comics, they are just not canon in my head. I don't care if they considered canon, they're not.  By the way, I have this same logic for the sequels. It's like, yes, they are officially canon, but like, I don't actually watch the OT and think, oh man, these guys are heading toward the sequels. That's the storyline. It's like, no. Yeah. Yeah, like here's the thing. Like, what isn't canon is just made up. Like, you can decide whatever you want when watching it. You can literally watch New Hope and decide that Empire isn't canon. Yeah. If you want to. That's all up to you. At the same time, what is officially canon will usually determine what I'm going to be criticizing, right? Like, you know, why do I criticize the sequel trilogy versus someone writing a fan fiction sequel to the OT? It's like, oh. So yeah, what is and isn't canon only really matters when you're consuming a new work set in the same world, right? So then if you are consuming a new, like, work of Star Wars, then you're probably going to need to understand that the sequel trilogy is canon because those events might be referenced and stuff established in them might come up, right? That's a good point. Whereas if you're just, or if you're writing a new work, then you really need to understand what counts and what doesn't. It's also the fact that it'll have the most eyes on it, I guess, as well and the most discussion to be had about the choices made. And, you know, the community of like, yay, let's all talk about it. Because if it's good, you know, that'd be great. So like the, and then however, like as a, as a consumer, you can make these decisions for yourself. So like, what is the difference between someone who wrote like a really in-depth fan fiction sequel trilogy that's like, incredibly well thought out and amazing and Disney's sequel trilogy? Well, the difference there is that Disney had money. And I was like, oh, should people who have money determine, like, should the amount of money you have determine like, your, the amount that you get to say on what counts in terms of a work of fiction? It's like, no, not really. Having money, I don't think you give you authority over art. Um, I suppose the question comes in of just, well, so you're talking about like, what's a meaningfully canon shouldn't necessarily be determined by who has the most money. Yeah. So I was in, Disney had loads of money, so they got to buy Star Wars and just declare that True. What they were making was canon and a lot of other stuff wasn't. But I mean, if that's the only way that it can be done. I was going to say, if we've all agreed on that, like, that's just property rights. Like that's how it works. Well, okay, so property rights means that you can, that you can use a work. It doesn't mean that you get to declare how other people interpret it. Well, I mean, you can't. What is this canon? It's totally a death of the author thing. Um, I'm not sure that canon would be what would be considered to be part of death of the author, right? Like if, if you establish it as, so like, for instance, I think that there are things that are inconsistent in a work, but like, it doesn't matter whether or not I think they're in, they happened. It's a problem. Well, so like, you know, Empire is a separate work from, from New Hope, right? Like you can, like, is in, so Empire is not part of the text of New Hope? Um, couldn't I extend your logic though to the point where I'm like, half of a New Hope isn't canon by my... Yeah, exactly. Each scene, each... I suppose so, but like... Like, well, that's technically... So all I'm getting at is like, it starts to use its usefulness, lose its usefulness beyond myself, like... I think, I think this is all like an academic conversation anyway, until you're actually right. And like until the, like the circumstances we've brought up where it's like, you're writing new work or you're consuming any work and you need to understand what counts. I believe that canon is specifically defined as what's the creator's owners, the people who have like, authority over the work, have said is the timeline, basically. Yeah, and... Like canon is very much based on what is said by the people who own it. And my response isn't usually that it's not canon, it's just that it's really shitty canon. Like you guys...  Yeah, and... And the...  Most of them wouldn't have. Like...  And that's why we're so frustrated with it. Because again, if it was JJ just writing his little fan fiction and his little cabin, he releases it, we'd be like, wow, that was terrible, if we read it. But it wouldn't go beyond that. In fact, we probably wouldn't be that annoyed at it. We'd be like, wow, that's some interesting ideas you got there. Yeah. So that's an interesting question someone was bringing up, like if enough people, we're talking like millions and millions. It's all like one person's fan fiction, like from John doobly-doo or whatever, and it's like it's loved enough to the point where people just like, they talk about the actual content as though that's the canon. That would be interesting. If enough minds push for it, it probably would take over to a degree. Well, yeah. So as in a canon, it's just like a shared agreement, essentially. Like, yeah. It's just a thing. If Disney, like fucking, like some guy bought Star Wars, I need to clad privately. Like this stuff is canon, this stuff isn't. No, that's not gonna do anything. Disney, like it only matters that Disney declared stuff because they did it publicly and they have a massive platform to do that. Yeah, sure. Um, just like, ultimately, you can decide what you count and you don't count as canon for yourself. Like that's up to you. I mean, I can just think, I mean, I'm, I guess I've just totally accepted the idea that there is official canon and then there's just what I accept in my head based off of more substantive criteria, but that's just separate from official canon. Yeah. And you can say that official canon is worth a lot or nothing, depending on the person, right?  Well, yeah, so it's in like official canon matters when you're continuing your official works, right? I don't like death of the author at all. Definitely. Death of the author sounds like revisionism. Believe me, you like death of the author. Everyone likes death of the author unless they're not quite clear on it. You really like death of the author.  You love it that much, trust me.  I feel like there are, there are going to be people who don't like death of the author. I don't know, man. And they're wrong. I don't even know if they truly understand how it works. I don't know why they would ever be in favor of it. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Against it. Because death of the author is your friend, trust me. Substantive tooting your own horn there a bit rags. Yeah, absolutely. I'm a much better writer than pretty much everyone in Hollywood. Everyone just like pretty much.  I like, for instance, if we're talking about Star Wars in particular because we've been talking about that a lot, my canon, like my ability to tell stories and stuff like that, I can do way better shit than JJ and Ryan did. No question about it. You're like, we all could hear. We all could hear undoubtedly each and every one of us in this call, all four of us could independently come up with a better sequel trilogy story than those two clowns could and did. Probably a lot of people in chat as well. Not everyone. Yeah, you too. Someone said, please explain Death of the Author and we're doing it. We said we'd bring it out and now we're going to bring it out. The James Gunn example. So a lot of you in chat would have seen I'm going to get a drink. I'll be right back. A lot of you in chat would have seen The Suicide Squad. You would have probably potentially enjoyed it. Now you would have watched it and a lot of people felt a lot for good ol' Polkadot Man. Mainly because he seemed like a dude who'd had his life completely destroyed by his mum and then forced into a position of like she's trying to force him to become a superhero. And he's like depressed because it's just like a horrible result of destroying his life and stuff. Seems like a good guy throughout most of the most of the storyline and it's only when Milton dies that he like angrily protests on behalf of Milton for all the good that he did and that no one seems to care.  And you know by the end he gets really invigorated by the fact that he's finally doing something significant and good and then he dies and it's like oh man pretty much completed storyline I would say it's fully understood. James Gunn said that he only cared to mention Milton as a point of attention he's trying to get attention for himself because he's a bit of an an attention seeker doesn't really care he just wants people to pay attention to him. So People are gonna stay and chat I'm sorry People are gonna stay and chat well yeah definitely the author is dumb but that just means it's a bad story. That's what that's gonna be the response like I guarantee it. I mean I don't even understand like that response anyway I'm totally near the end so the James Gunn is telling you how the character thinks and feels and why he did what he did when most people I've spoken to absolutely have no idea what he's referring to after having seen the film because it's just not really there but the thing is he's the author he's the one who wrote this so we're gonna tell him that he's wrong that he's got the wrong interpretation of his own character it's like how could that possibly make sense and it's like well because he he didn't put it in the fucking movie I'm sorry like and this happens to loads of things and you just have to be like sorry author the second you publish you're out you're no more an insightful source of like a valid source of commentary than anyone else as I say probably would be more insightful but uh not always not always no not always probably um doesn't that violate your laws of canon nope what people say isn't canon what what it what the project is is canon so like Star Wars releases and George says that Luke is a banana it's like that's nice I love that's your example that's a great example it is a great example um but there are times where it gets complicated like if someone's says I don't know tally tubbies was always a criticism of I don't know the communist utopia you'd be like and the creators like I had no fucking thing about that I don't know what you're doing and so everyone's like see you're you're making it all up the thing is you could actually do that with something that really does have those components and makes it and it's like really fucking effective but the author was like I didn't intend it and it's like that's fine it's when you're separating up the artwork it's all about the arguments you make authors can also have headcanon true and the thing is like if you if there's like one deleted scene that would have made that all clear for Boca Dot Man and James got rid of it to save time whatever and didn't realize that it kind of fucks with everyone's perception of Boca dot man it's like it's too late now I guess you can make a director's cut but he's too late but yeah um I don't know was that it we were on a topic of some kind now I don't know where we are I think that we covered it all let's press on death the author will keep coming back up and that's fine until next time I suppose my top three characters you don't know I'm going to read them out it's about buffing angel and uh excellent choices all three short-faced bear versus sabertooth tiger go hmm a short-faced bear so if it's short-faced I guess that means it'll be harder for it to bite down fully on the I guess I like the sabertooth tiger might have the problem is I'm not bear wins how big how big is the sabertooth no but did you hear the first part that it's like very flat nose that's true but even then do you know how sabertooth tigers would kill their prey primarily that was that was my question was um what are their what are their strategies so the sabertooth as as far as what I've heard about the smiley don is that they wouldn't um they wouldn't actually like use their massive fangs for hunting and for the killing of the animal in particular right that was what I was about to ask they they would suffocate their animal is what they would try and do they wear it their tails were huge they would try and like catch the animal wear it down and then suffocate it which was an unceremonious and often lengthy process right I didn't know what a short fact I thought it was like oh a bear but with a short bear with a short face actual species I didn't know that this was a species yeah the bear wins no doubt this thing is huge and sabertooth I don't think sabertooth tiger is worth that big well I have a really cool name though like fearsome guy like sabertooth tiger it's not a cat like it's not a tiger it's not a uh it's something else it's the guy's from um ice age right it's a smilodon it's not even yeah I don't even think it's technically a feline I'm not even sure maybe it's the that's what the name yeah the three felines the fuck is a smiley don that's the official name of that's the sabertooth tiger yeah just like I know that is the official name for the Tasmanian tiger the walking with series I don't know which one it was they had the smilodons in it though yeah he's um walking with dinosaurs walking with monsters those one yeah yeah I those were great they were great I love them um the I just I just know that sabertooth are really friendly um according to ice age I mean that's the name yeah smiley fellas yeah it really it literally means the smiling don and you know how can you go wrong at that point a great example is Roland in the dark tower there is a major story implication that he's a white man that's that's what I've heard from people who've read that story that race changing him is going to have drastic effects on the story um which creates interesting problems and that you'd have to alternate like whatever it is that you had in the original story I guess um back for blood is a new game from the creators of laugh of dad pretty much laugh of dad and all but name since they don't own the rights to it will you guys be trying it out of it not that interest personally um I think Mel tried it and he said it wasn't that impressive if um it seems to me what people are saying about it you know this is the thing I probably just ended playing left for dead I guess unless it's significantly better and then at that point I just play killing flaws yeah left for deads pretty good permanentites better killing floor I think I think they're all better than left for dead but they have the advantage of coming out 67 years after left for dead was made and learning a lot from it so yeah um and that's why this this game should probably be in that position too made it yeah those are the it's turnerock studios they're the ones who made it so like hearing that it's hearing that it's only like marginally I don't even know the Mel said and it was any better than life of dead is like no that's not reassuring I don't know and it isn't its first version so maybe maybe you don't give it time over time I'm hoping hey rags look up the video Tifa in the box it's a it's by baron strap I've watched it hundreds of times also jay you're my favorite aww wow 12 minutes in red one super chat gotten 10 new ones never changed fellas I mean that you don't point it out all right people gonna think we'll never catch up but we will we will how you say how yeah um I wouldn't want to give away such incredible uh stratagems ah stratagem centaur and strategy yeah that's a teaching that's an episode of a show it is this girl in the fireplace a historical drama yes what if you told a story those in the future like 10 years and it turns out it was like one to one with what actually happens coincidentally would it then become a historical drama in future no I don't think so I think that one would be defined based on your intentions that one would be what if fucking all the people who made it died and there's no record of their intentions yeah then I guess that becomes told together I'm saying in the world where that is the castle so in the new model what if they turn to charlotte into star lord looking forward to the next episode when they turn peter quill into black pet oh yeah they they're not doing that no way the way they turn to charlotte into star lord is fucking absurd and crazy anyway but trying to get a white to charlotte no that would be danger zone so I'm kind of lost here are you saying that ethnic essentialism isn't a valid field good luck rebuilding IQ testing from scratch that's a quote they've got that in quotes don't worry they've said the person who said it is tale of two smuds good show remember the rabbits guy rags that was fun the rabbits guy yeah tale of two rabbits oh yeah that's right that was a whole thing for those who don't know me and rags spent like was it nine hours nine half hours on the adamant stichestream going over a debate that was pretty cringe but hey a lot was achieved yeah that's fun streamers achieve things hey fringy could you exclaim this show um this show there you go this for a meme I don't know I'm guessing it is why is the race IQ statistic thing in valid so oh wait we luckily we managed to go over that one I assume um the next one is a as a the buffy related fuck mary kill it's just like uh I never know how much I should know because I can't even speculate on the reasoning okay yeah sorry you have to just just save all of these up for a buffy super chat thing I guess I guess we'll have to someday months ago I commented about rags getting mad with chat easily and how he's going after them just wanted to say he's gotten much better lately and it shows no chat chat has coincidentally not said as many things that are fucking retarded so as you know I feel like rags probably get pisses like like fucks with chat as much as he wants to all the time I don't think you I don't think there's any change same for me by the way and fringy which by the way I would argue me and fringy have called out chat more than rags has in all of time if they if they say things that are really dumb and stupid then they will be punished for it in the same vein if they say something insightful or funny we will usually be like hey nice one good stuff that was a good one yeah good job buddy for example hello mola pretty neat pretty clever and then it just says looking forward to more from him beating rags keep up a good wick guys you bet yeah more from rags coming soon to a theater near you I have a it's triumph and someone's posted a quote a really good one from buffing angel good quote a five not gonna read it out though that's how crazy I'm getting with spoiler protection for the moment just wait until I'm on fringy stream post them all there and then we can talk about it freely I have some nice buffing spoilers um check out ethnicity and IQ by Thomas Sowell IQ difference between groups of small many people get higher scores with verbal IQ test compared to written there is so much to talk about in terms of the validity of IQ tests it is super deep there's a lot that goes into it statistics are complicated all right true statistically yes another quote it's a great quote all right and I appreciate it but I'm just I'm not gonna read it all right just just watch your video on the father your best work my friend's dad had Alzheimer's it's been heartbreaking watching him deteriorate before our eyes yeah it's a really rough and it's rare to find someone who hasn't gotten some connection with extended family with someone who's gotten it it's um yeah there's a there's a few let's call them like bad things that can happen to you in life where I'm just sort of like yeah it sucks we gotta like deal with it but then there are some where it's just like oh fuck off like what what is this you know in a way that when you understand how life works you kind of feel like there's a balance in terms of I fall over and you know I graze my my skin and bleed blood comes out you're just like in the pain you're just like like that kind of makes sense but then you find out about the there's some diseases out there you're just like oh that's taking the piss that's stupid like why would you make this like it's just absurd there's there's a couple of them and um um I think that was there's that famous like discussion with Stephen Fry and someone else where he's talking about the is it like a bacteria that eats kids eyes whatever yeah yeah that's right fucked up there's no there's no it's just no purpose it's so guys they couldn't have been intelligently designed any other way well barring all of that like because I fucking agree it's it's just a matter of Alzheimer's is one of those ones where it's just like that is cruel why the fuck does that exist yeah and uh yeah um the one annoyed religious person in chat now well the one the one that's left after all this time I'm sorry your lure should be better written I don't know what to say Christian lore is inconsistent a critique of the bible the only thing worse than a lifeless corpse is a mindless corpse my god was that confucius someone put in potages at least we're not ableist what what what what I'm lost on that one oh no there's one for it a while ago we achieved the lowest elementary school grades in my country's history at least we're not ableist I mean it is good to not be ableist that's a positive yeah I don't okay anyway um be obviously to the person who sent that message I hope you're doing okay um it bum me that people keep bringing up that phase actress was Latina despite being pretty white we Spanish come in all colors um well so that's interesting for wasn't the best example of this apocalypse for um X-Men apocalypse Oscar Isaac played him and those people complaining that it should be an Egyptian actor right oh right because the guy was from Egypt at the time I I believe that was the uh that was the thing it was super awkward just goes to show again like you shouldn't judge it based on the color you should be very careful well it's not that simple yeah I love love love love love do maternal combat loop I've not played it I don't know of course captain Carter is just better right um from the brief stuff I saw of her it looked like she might be stronger than Steve with some of the stuff she was doing amazing and then like it just got the standard like when she's battling the eldritch demon thing it's just like there's lots of things that happen they're just like huh yeah what are we doing here guys also do you reckon um like what like the what if finale will just be grabbing up all those characters together yes we're in a van absolutely absolutely who's um no doubt who are they gonna be fighting is it avengers one territory or I I don't know I'm not sure oh sorry was it Rami Malek in night of the museum I might have mixed up films that could be true oh that's that's uh that'd be one yeah because he played our run it damn it they had really long names yeah sorry if I mixed them up I honestly just I well I mean there's oscar Isaac oh right but oscar Isaac is playing moon knight and that's egypt related is he uh is he is that because yeah I was about to say he might not be egyptian I can't remember oh I actually I didn't even think of that hold on is he is his heritage egyptian let's see oh he's from Guatemala maybe he is uh yeah I I think I was thinking of Rami Malek that's probably what it was yeah like but uh it's this thing Rami Malek and oscar Isaac are both pretty great actors yes fuck this up Rami Malek is uh excellent he's not egyptian you raced as all right apparently apparently Rami uh Rami Malek is egyptian so that wasn't the exact wait now I'm confused Rami Malek is egyptian so he is the correct example yeah I got it wrong oh no it was oscar Isaac then because he's no Cuban heritage well what do you mean no so the example I was looking for wasn't apocalypse it was um knight in the ucms was playing was an egyptian guy oh sorry people got mad about doesn't this one when people got mad about it because they didn't know he was egyptian yeah yeah the Rami Malek and knight in the museum I'm pretty sure people were like why the fuck's this white guy playing an egyptian character and he was like ooh whoopsie yeah gotta be careful he could also be you could be white as snow in egyptian as well absolutely absolutely I want to get some black russian representation no those don't exist it's like three baby those are the unicorns um F of my boy P.T. Piranha yeah he's dead sorry about that who's dead P.T. Piranha he's dead killed him twice actually yeah two of the main characters in the Buffy comic have intercourse and literally birth an entire new universe yeah yes quite a come shot it's quite a quite a storyline I will say uh fun hypothetical if it was to be an actual movie about e-fap who'd you get to play yourselves in the movie bonus who'd you get to play Jared oh we could play ourselves right I guess the question's assuming we for some reason we can't yeah we have someone I don't know how should we go for just the most the most obviously inaccurate choice someone who's just clearly not like us like Idris Elba plays me or something like that I was gonna say Idris Elba plays me god damn it and Arnold Schwartz and Ager plays springy someone who's just clearly not at us I really like that idea Mollie you can be Hammerstone okay I mean she's got range and I think I think Rags and I can both be played by Idris Elba I think that's okay yeah oh what if we all play each other everyone's like why did you do it this way it's like look it was it just it made the most sense trust us I'm enjoying the I'm enjoying the chat suggestions we've got Tommy Wiseau is Jay Wayne Johnson is Jay Matt Jarba was Mollie Davido was Mollie Mollie I'd like to see Danny DeVito play you what about Gal Gadot I was thinking Danny DeVito for something yeah Gal Gadot plays Rags oh we well if we get her as you she can say no actually that's perfect yeah William DeFoe was Metal you know Gal Gadot has to play Fringy so she would say no wow yeah no you're no that is that is uncanny right there yeah that's amazing we place movie Bob Hitler it was like this person I can't play him he's so cruel Steve Buscemi as Rags Brie Larson as Rags Kevin James as Movie Bob I don't know who that is who's Kevin James nice do you not know who Kevin James is comedian that's why I just said I don't know who Kevin James is yeah I assume that's what that means yeah I I yeah sure I yeah absolutely you got me all right you got me so I just said that's why I literally just said the words I don't know who Kevin James is well you're on culture Jay you haven't watched Moll Cop what's that who he is wasn't it was there two Moll Cops um yeah no Kevin so there were two Moll Cops but Kevin holy wait you said who's Kevin James right I'll blow it I wasn't yeah there sorry I just got the Y's crossing my head there for a minute yeah there are two of those that's like you also played the zookeeper I feel like they should be a franchise Moll Cop that's much larger it's a very interesting content Elijah Wood is springy James Corden is Moller oh no what's that James Corden is yeah I always you've got you've got Moller dressed in a little mouse costume thump uh humping the air there's a meme of that traffic in LA there is a meme of that I much prefer the suggestion of James Corden to play Jay Longbone what I would say in blackface dude imagine how angry you'd be but like on that topic of the Corden thing you're trying to go to work and you get stopped by a flash rob parodic some shitty Cinderella remake and then James Corden comes up to you and humps the air in front of you like just imagine that being your Monday morning where is it they got incredibly lucky with the people they found like they didn't even honk it's like yeah that happens to be I'm just honking maybe they just didn't show the ones who did maybe because it was filmed from inside the car that's true the guy was filming from inside his car but maybe it's just in LA you get used to ship lock and traffic because like they film productions all the time because it's just an apocalyptic shithole that you're just like oh well they're not mugging me or that's this is all right you don't know they're not going to mug you rags you don't I don't think I don't know I don't know if it's James Corden you know that I would really enjoy the news story of James Corden performs a flash mob but then mugs commuters to promote Cinderella still to promote Cinderella like this the mugging is for business I mean that'd be a news story that'd get people talking about it you know mm-hmm yeah because I mean who's gonna watch that movie like really James Corden the last one I suppose he'll watch it yeah the last not question by the way was who would be cast for Jared like we could do um what's the name of Shuman Christian Stuart she could get into the role just dignified an amazing actor that you can that that you can get to for portray Jared Brian Cranston Charles dance Charles dance Charles dance very well Brad you're so excited about oh and you're cooking the microphone now you know like oh I'm sorry about cooking my microphone who doesn't want to see it it's okay it's all right I'm sorry I just want to see Charles dance play Jared Genesis it's the role he was born to play I was about to say yeah that could be the the iconic role for his life or you can have Patrick Stewart and we could call it Star Trek Genesis yeah yeah good Imola as a fan of Buffy and Angel have you seen Firefly brilliant casting a character chemistry will building and plot yeah I've always liked Firefly but I would need to re-watch I haven't seen it so long now that my references are thin but um Firefly has the obsessive community for a reason it just never got beyond season one hey all how you doing can I get for you to say oo-woo but like oo-war oo-war oo-war all right there you go you got a close answer for Australian accent rags and jay say your best oo-woo too oo-woo too I feel like this probably for memes so we should say it at separate times oo-woo oo-woo oo-woo and then I got to do it oo-woo deep so oo-woo that was a great oo-woo more it's going into my it's just going into my soul though uh would you guys consider the first two scooby-doo movies for halloween effat movies sure I would totally watch zombie island man that would be great are we talking about the live action one or the animated ones oh fuck uh sorry if you talk about yeah I mean live action ones I'm on board with too yeah I'm fine with them well yeah actually I don't even I just assumed that zombie island was one of the first what are the first scooby-doo movies I think it was the first oh neat at least at least the first new ones I think I'm not sure though because they were made for tv movies back in the day I don't know if they were ever like released uh more how goes the comics homework greatly now regular on real bbc I've not gotten homework yet but um they've already decided I want my first homework's gonna be so yeah I'll finally be reading some comic books so it is funny to see them speculate because they know who I am so they're like we should probably choose accordingly I have no idea what I'm gonna end up with but uh yeah I'll wait for the hot takes I know right they'll give me like the best comic book of all time and I'm like this is pretty cringe yeah that's probably what's gonna happen with at least one of at least one of us can say that this is the best comic book of all time right you're gonna hot take one of them well I know that civil war has a good reputation I think over there and and from what I understand civil war is a book that I'm probably not gonna like or at least I'll have issues with it certainly fucking civil war two holy shit I mean I'm told you about civil war that uh not good as long as this stuff to be able to complement in it I should be fine but like civil war two I would struggle to fucking talk about things I like what's the deal with civil war two so civil war two is minority report captain marvel is pro minority report and tony is anti minority report and and like they have arguments about it but it's not meaningful because it feels like captain marvel is just never considered at all the counter arguments against prosecuting people for crimes before they've committed them so it's really and then like they just make bad decisions like at the end of the comic tony is like they're having issues and they're fighting each other they just have these big epic battles and right at the ant tony fucking comes in with the giant whole bus trying kill yeah yeah wait so the context is spider-man is told that he's going to kill captain america captain america is talking to spider-man like hey man don't worry about it I know you never do that and then captain marvel is like hello spider-man let's go to jail come on and we'll have a chat I want you to stay away from captain america in case you kill him and then they're talking about that and then toady just blasts it and fucking attacks captain marvel is like what are you doing he's like fuck you yeah we're called faster thanks tony well and then he gets well it's in it's in this is pre-lasted captain marvel I'm imagining this is just well it's a comic I don't know what I'm not sure what the distinction would be I guess also yeah there's an evil clone of thaw that's a robot or whatever it's also a little one the robot thaw I mean that's not that's not a bad idea all right that was in the that was in the original and they build it and then it kills one of the heroes because they didn't build it with a no kill or a function and then and then I remember like doesn't I think Tony tries to like blow up peter as well he comes to talk to him like oh yeah that was crossing the line he's like oh we have to do this and they lock all the heroes in the negative zone or whatever and then they just teleport oh I think the best part is right at the end cloak just teleports them all into the middle of new york it's like man of all the places like you could just put them in a field somewhere like in the middle of the countryside you got to drop them in the like most important city in america so they can have a massive battle and destroy it and then like a bunch like it legit seems like captain america is about to kill Tony and then all the the civilians tackle it they're like no stop it you're destroying our city oh no and and then he turns himself in because he was on the wrong side even though like Tony was doing very villainous things to try and push his side forward is why like civil war the movie a lot more it dials it in a bit and the who's correct is complicated it's more complicated yeah because yeah um i'm all fine for swapping things but it's a two-way street at the end of the day a good story is a good story but there's other factors at play that resonate with people besides just the story if a story is a cultural slash historical tale and some changes can be jarring i think it's worth appreciating all the different things that can make someone be put off by content but ultimately like if you're trying to separate them into categories and judge them then um by the way this this really does apply if they made a white blade right i would be like what the fuck are you doing at the same time if someone said do you think it's impossible for it to be good i'd be like well no could be good no but why would you do this yeah and that applies to all of these like making anbel in black is weird as fuck like i said it's like what are you doing um but i just want to make sure that we don't get lost to the point where we say like this story is now automatically bad do not watch it it's like well i mean for all we know you gotta feel bad for the creators out there who are like trying their best to tell incredible stories and then this i don't know studios tell them you've got to be doing this thing and they're like oh like like what about what about that scenario where someone does the thing because they didn't want to but they were forced to but they still write a really good story um yeah it doesn't have to be studios either you can literally just be like oh we want to tell the story of anbel in but we're like a small company and we only have like certain acts available to us we like the best like we have we have three actresses who auditioned for the part of the anbel in and the only good one was this black woman it's like oh should we just not make the production then or should we have a black anbel in like that's completely like what i mean what would people who were upset by am a black anbel in say in that situation i guess it's my first year and someone said the bbc is not a small company well jay was just offering many reasons it could happen this is a hypothetical if and that's the thing i still think there are plenty of reasons it could i mean what if this woman is a fucking incredible actress what about that could happen yes that means and what if you look at this and you're like man this is the best performance i've ever seen i couldn't imagine this you know this being made with anyone else in the role well like i have to imagine and again i'm not i'm not trying to tiggle this back up again but like you should just go ahead go ahead just just that um i know i i want nick fury to be samuel jackson at this point like i wouldn't want him to be swapped out not but at the same time if they did an alternate universe multiverse thing and there was a white nick fury played by fucking i don't know u jackman u jackman and i'd be like well i mean that's that's okay let's give him yeah what were you saying rakes let's say what if this actress is so insanely good that from this point on if androlyn is ever depicted she has to be black or people will lose their shit to get outrage like the fuck is this white lady do it at this and all the things black people can act long dude some black actor is a fucking phenomenal called black tears black tears oh yeah i know that everyone is capable of bad takes but what about your thoughts on the recent smub boy thing also what the fuck smud i mean if you rewind to the 10 minute mark you will find a full discussion on it 10 minutes i think is around about when we start um scar joe in the ghost in the shell movie isn't asian but she looked like the main character and some Japanese people thought she was a good choice i've not seen that plus if anyone who knows anything about the source material should know that motoko kusanagi is not like she never had a body that's the whole thing she never had a physical body so she is unique in that regard so it doesn't matter if she looks asian or white or black or anything that's kind of a whole point i mean the show is called ghost in the shell still that the um was it the prospect that they were going to use CGI to make her look more asian mega cringe is that a that was a thing right i'm not just making that up imagine they did that to make someone look more white it's like we use CGI to make someone look more white it's like you're not allowed to do that well remember um i don't think you're allowed to use CGI to make someone look asian i don't think oh but it doubly so remember the the Idris Elba wasn't black enough for luther so maybe CGI could have fixed that making black or damn it we can't we can't we've turned up the black i'm sorry that quote on quote argument was that he was culturally right yeah yeah maybe you can add culture through CGI yeah yeah maybe not that is like that his skin tone wasn't dark enough but like that he didn't come from like a black enough area or whatever i don't know which makes it which makes it better no it doesn't i don't think so i oof it's such a it's all very oof it starts to kill you back around to to like dangerous territories um yeah does that make it better or worse um because like i think i think it i don't honestly makes it worse because if they're talking about like this character needs to be played by someone with a darker skin tone at least that's something that's you're gonna see on screen whereas i like this actor comes from a different cultural background i was like okay he's an actor i was gonna say that's the fucking craft is it not yeah um uh you said you want to learn more about the event when breaking down Chernobyl uh could the stakes and depiction of radiation be classified under adaptation argument if um it's an adaptation of history if they appeal to our understanding of radiation for us to understand the effects of it then and then they also break like how radiation works then um i'll probably point that out as a as a failing on the show like if they depict everything as it would happen with radiation except for a few things that get in the way of them being able to tell the story they want to tell then i would see that as a flaw um but as far as i know they they do it really well i don't know that's the thing i don't really know a lot about radiation i just know it's bad and it like fucking if you get a huge dose of it it'll melt you from the inside out it's horrifying that's like one of the top to your worst deaths i assume right yep definitely up there for spiderman oh yes spiderman killed people with his radioactive come right oh yeah i forgot about that oh what were you referencing i wasn't that just he got um bit by radioactive spider so it's radiation forcing and death no he got a he got a different result with that he was he lucked out i feel like if if you had a choice of what happens in genoble or getting spiderman powers probably going for the the latter right i you know what i don't even need to clarify that question with you i know what your answer would be it's okay i sound well i know you because of getting game noises so i'm just gonna agree the bridge of death isn't true is that the part where they were all watching i'm not 100% sure what the bridge of death refers to i'm sorry but if it's like where people were at what times you know or if it's something else um there cannot be e-fab without first a great tism the greater the tism the longer the e-fab it's true what's bonious yeah okay i've played to the dead space trilogy for the first time recently first is good second one's great and third one is a game high rags oh rags is muted he would have said hi i'll say hi hi whoa you just stole the um i think it was the stream covering quintance tlj video where rags went away and uh the guests alternated between saying hi and when people said hi rags that was it was fun all right i guess i'm next on cuz freeing's not here oh um you and me one boy it is more a place sonic hero is not super mario sunshine challenge impossible i i i don't like playing sonic heroes okay i used to when i was a young man but i did not enjoy playing that on super nap catch i'm sorry i'm all the place a hero jay have you played securo no wow i'm basically playing cyberpunk uncultured i'm getting frames right now so i'm gonna stop playing because i think my pc is just good enough to play this game so if i'm doing other stuff with my pc at the same time i get frames wow look at you doing other stuff for the pc some people can't even do stuff with the pc well i'm very privileged bad yes there you go hmm jay and i shared a pineapple pizza with a straw once facts wow how did that go great i'm sorry i've done that with so many people that i don't know who you are but like i'm sure it was a good one i don't under like those words in that order like i don't i think i first read that i was like am i having like some kind of stroke like i understand pineapple pizza and then with a straw i'm like am i just not comprehending the words correctly i guess you could blend it all right oh yeah that must be yeah yeah we did it we solved it of course i i knew that already because it's yeah you knew that when will we get any fat movies on tarik nashid's movie buck breaking so that's the the one where white people are slaves right or is that someone else because i remember someone else mentioning them there was a cool bracket oh then i don't know uh-huh i mean that's there's very plausibly more than one of those films yes also why is an australian here not eating grass upside down in prison damn how do you know he's not i don't think the australian is eating grass there is that can can someone explain that to me i think they just they enjoy the idea that everybody's eating grass they just mentioned it as a sort of like i hope this is you know in there with all the other things oh it's not that i trust you but i'm gonna wait for chat to answer this one as well i mean they're gonna a hundred percent agree he's an australian why are you talking about fictional places all the time jay oh sorry i forgot australia doesn't exist now i have to ask is man of steel better than rise of skywalker i rags what do you think i think so the rise of skywalker they don't know which way is up which is pretty embarrassing yeah that's catastrophically bad mm-hmm there's a whole army that don't know which way is up what's the most significant floored man of steel it's like probably the it's like the wormhole stuff or the the wheel building i think it's a world building the idea that all of the outposts on it's like man yeah no way oh the baby killing was pretty bad yeah the civilian genocide yeah uh i'd like to have an in-depth conversation about metals blowhole meme developed some wonderful lore involving fringy penetrating metals blowhole look at meme repository's twitter feed hashtag blowhole oh wow they've been busy while we've been away got blowhole lore shadow warrior 2 plays better than doom eternal i've not played either i can believe it when what's the latest on the boys video in did you there isn't an update on any of the things the videos come when the videos come that's the new philosophy of this channel or at least my channel i assume you guys are similar ish i don't know promises made means no promises broken exactly i'm similar ish i have i haven't i know what i'm working on and i know when it's coming out but you don't know that's the way it be i appreciate uh the people just just want to know for the sake of like knowing what's next but uh expect surprises uh if it was ever possible would you allow cinema roberto on as a guest yeah we would i'd have so many fucking questions for that man like in the mud roberto is there are many issues this sounds exactly like the dark town movie roland is white in the books but is yourself but playing roland is amazing in the movie the issues with the film aren't his it's everything else yeah i would imagine that i was gonna say is anybody know of a movie where idris alba was shit in it nor not really i don't i'm not aware of the suicide squad hey he was neat in that he made blood stuff a sport like activity um in secondary school teachers would put the simpsons because episodes would be vaguely related to the subject any excuse to put the simpsons on right oh i see so they would play episodes of simpsons if they had any vague connection to a lesson that's clever that's the way to do it what's gonna say uh our history lessons every once in a while we'd get to see some movies and um i don't remember it as well but downfall was definitely one of them uh was it all quiet on the western front i think was another one and saving private ryan was definitely one it's like man gets you to i guess understand the level of the atmosphere but also is just fucking top-notch moviemaking as well oh my god i don't know if i can say this this got uh this was said in um in i think metal's chat or no fringy's chat i think and it got it got caught by twitch but i think youtube's still okay with it i guess oh my goodness they got so excited well it's it's just the stand it's the ching chong bing bong they say that and it's like oh god i don't know how long you're gonna do that that's wrong with ching chong bing bong that's already something if you said on twitch it gets caught by moderation why i imagine because people it's too commonly associated with i mean this is literally about to reference the legend of the tin wings but i think it's pretty clear what's being referenced why would why would anyone associate the the the the the sounds ching chong bing bong with legend of the tin rings i don't know right how would they do that but is it to mimic the fact that so much so many words in mandarin are just one syllable i guess so maybe i don't know that's that's a i don't know um more if you don't want to read that i think rags will also hi rags hello well you know as soon as it becomes a violation of to us i won't be reading it anymore that's that's the basic way i can figure out the rules of this whole thing um it's not that rags stopped from yelling at chat chat just lost rags are still best boy that's true chat has lost all of those every single fight every single one i'm i remain undefeated dude look at my fucking awesome garden of sunflowers right now look at this oh i'm gonna get one more also can black superman be from moof moof asalis instead of metropolis i mean you can still be from metropolis right yeah theoretically black people in metropolis i'd have to imagine there's plenty why because in the here and there there's a big melting pot as i understand it metropolis you know you've got all of everyone there including martians and they engage in the the career of manhunting that's not a very that's not a great name to have well yeah we talked about it on the the snider cut he introduces himself to ban aflux batman as i am the martian manhunter it's like there's some who call me the martian manhunter and i'm like should i be concerned or have you found don't worry just evil man you're like or a martian who is a man and also he is a hunter is that what you mean right i hope i don't know i i i was so i wished for his own movie i wished for three most knighted justice league movies to really understand the martian manhunter but nope yeah like if someone came up to me and said ah hello rags there uh my name is gormflame and but there are some who call me the chilean dog strangler no and i'm like oh okay oh that's not good um still miss the whole race like you think somehow but it seems like a boring slash not fun discussion whatsoever or so whatever it's not fun it's not fun i mean it's annoying it can be funny it can be it can be funny you see what people are saying and it's just like dude i would rather we're not we should move to something less contentious like the like the gender the the gender hilarity statistics what's the funniest gender Hitler i mean i mean oh wow so Hitler male female and Hitler but like hit laughter Hitler all the men were like all right the council of men has decided that Hitler was such a jerk that he is no longer going to be considered a man ladies were throwing him over to you and the women were like uh uh uh uh uh no no the council of women entity we have decided that he is definitely not a woman either you can't just do that so we're gonna throw it back to you guys and they're like no uh no the council of men has already ruled on this we're gonna have to throw it back to y'all and eventually it was decided that he would simply become his own gender Hitler gender that's pretty cool oh i thought i could hit slash lure like it i like it it's just hard to get non-biased information on this in regards to the race IQ thing i mean i don't know just i don't know what don't take it why it's taken interest and even looking it up i don't know don't even worry about it it doesn't even worry about it it doesn't matter it won't impact your life in any way that you could possibly imagine because you only judge people as individuals and not representatives of their race fucking true dad if they keep race-wapping all the characters like a little mermaid for inclusion will it get to a point where there are no roles for white males so i don't think that a white male was playing ariel so you're okay there i don't think ariel is no that's a bad example maybe she could maybe she could be a swimming nipple and they could call her arielis oh um i was wondering were you going with that when you said maybe she'd be a swimming nipple i was actually yeah i was like there are many places this joke could go this is why you stick this is why you stick to the very end you gotta you gotta hang in there for some of these accept the premise so that we can enjoy ourselves honestly you know i i want to live in the world where you just said what if she was a swimming nipple and then stopped and that was that was something we have to ponder on yeah what if she was a swimming nipple ding sound um yeah like for realsies though if it actually got to a point where it became a problem that no white males were getting acting jobs i'd be really fucking surprised be like wow how do we we really got here because still got to be plenty of roles for them i imagine i would imagine so yeah we still need uh we still need horrible stupid villains yeah we need villains so we should be golden and generals who are just the worst at being general generals that hate their own men and want to lose the war those kinds of general that's my favorite archetype yeah the men who kill their own men i love that one hey i don't need my men it's not like you do things i need less things done all right i'm like i'm really interested in what the actual statistics are for who gets like how many roles and like especially in sort of like what kind of role in the story this is like well that's the interesting one in terms of who more often gets to be the leading character and yeah i wouldn't be surprised if like even as many as 10 years ago that it was very disproportionate even taking into account the demographics but i guess that's the question right is how relevant is it as a thing to talk about what exactly is trying to achieve by doing this so like so representation doesn't matter in the individual property but it matters overall of like this is the art there's a society producers because if it if there's a big disparity between like the races that live in a society and the people who are or you know whatever demographics live in a society and then what's portrayed on screen then that's representative of something kind of fluke fluke well i guess that's the question does that matter does that matter and if so what do you need to do to address it i would say in and of itself it's it's not like an issue in itself but it is probably means well it probably represents oh yeah yeah i like that it probably represents a broader issue that has nothing to do with films themselves yes as well okay so like if it could be an issue in itself like you know it's like if it's like we have a five percent Asian population in flunkville but only one percent of leading roles are Asian people oh that's like a bigger problem you know like so i'm sorry sorry i'm sorry so if it's like we have a five percent Asian population in flunkville but only 4.5 percent of leading roles are Asian people like i don't think that that's a problem in and of itself whereas something like we have five percent population but only zero point three percent of roles i was like i think like at that point that isn't in and of itself and yeah you're wondering like why is it we we have that's like that's the thing that you see and you're like okay so why is that case so even if it's like a small disparity then like why is this a case that could be an issue the anyway like but even without considering why it's like oh only like zero like a massive disparity it's like oh that's really going to affect like the job prospects of certain actors you know but like through no fault of their own that's that that is that point is an issue in itself like or would it mean that excluding a huge number of people from being able to participate i mean i guess if it's if it's a if it's one of those issues where it like like the reason for it in terms of for whatever reason maybe a totally fine harmless reason to less Asians just want to be actors i mean because that's not a problem if they just really just it just happens to be they don't want to be actors as much but if they want to be they're not getting the jobs yeah i'm doing this for you Cyrus K i saw the message i'll do this mission it's gonna be pain for leading roles with asian like people right as as you know you wouldn't have fewer films made with late leading asian roles you probably would have like some fewer but truly the disparity there would mean that just it was easier for an asian actor to get work because proportionally that's just yeah it's like if there's a smaller pool of actors but there's still the same stories being told then that's going to be the result is it as an asian actor it would be easier to find work in the same way that i think like i don't know i could believe that it's easier to find work as an actor if you're a dwarf or that it's harder i don't know i'm not sure yeah or if there is a dwarf role you're more likely to get it well yeah if there's a dwarf role like as a as a dwarf you know what it's probably you're probably you're probably stacked up against most other actors there for that role do you think the people who do you think the people who don't cast dwarves when they could like the directors and producers do you think they're short-sighted no maybe they would be far-sighted at that point i'm not sure i mean i don't i don't know how the how it works i'm just i'm just really not certain i guess as long as i mean as long as the results are not from like some injustice that's happening it's all right for example when you see some numbers that are really skewed you should look at them and find out like why they are even like even even if it's not as a result of an injustice even if it is just like you know what this the society is like obsessed with telling fucking i'd know yep world war one stories and as a result very few women are getting roles because it's like literally the majority of art that the society produces is world war one stuff about like men on the front lines there are very few at that point it's like oh then like that's a problem in itself because if you're a woman and you want to go into like acting you're probably getting shafted well that's that's the interesting part of the conversation is it is why are people making the decisions that they're making on what stories they want to tell and who are in them what is what is the uh why why would they be it's not that they're doing anything wrong at all it's more of a question of like now why are you making that decision is there some broader societal influence that's making you make this decision and is that resulting in a very disproportionate in a way that excludes a lot of people from having an opportunity to participate yeah I'm not sure how I feel about that if for some reason we have a future where everybody only want to tell stories about world war two and therefore women weren't getting roles I'd be like um is the suggestion here that we mandate stories that involve women well no I mean that's the thing that you can't I don't think I ever want to you can't no like this it's not a problem that has like a a real solution it's just like man that that that sucks yeah there was a result that's definitely not ideal that just happened to be what it is I guess the problem might not be the right word it's like you don't it's like is it a problem that a lot of sport like basketball for instance you're not gonna see a lot of obese short people you're not being represented in basketball you know I guess at the same time with acting is not a is a very different thing to basketball I find that an interesting example actually it's the idea of it's it is a field where you need to be able to compete at a certain level to be able to perform and so then the question would be why are certain people I did that level it was fucking hard okay that level is pain people in chat you know pain but it's done I only want to watch gay porn femoids femoids most effective only gay state mandated gay porn yes the state starts mandating straight porn be made to get femo porn stars some work there's just one guy out there who wants it and he's like I will watch all of it many times I will support this industry actually what about high school musical what about high school musical yeah I'm not sure I'm not sure how that works you need more information than that yeah why is the chat just full of people saying pain but I don't see any arguments here like well don't that doesn't regard you that's uh what is that what is this I just I just completed was probably the most glitchy and hard level in this game and I it's it's it's amazing I got it on the first try it's a fucking horrible level it's not as bad as the poisoned river one okay we'll do that one next I'm really waiting for this person to say what about high school musical yeah well what was the high school musical thing about and in another way is it it's someone said it's terrible acting but it's about basketball is that I don't know if that is that is that you're so it's about it's about like dancing so well here's the thing a main character whose name is I don't know it's probably chatter Travis for some shit like that he wants to be he's on a star basketball team he's very good at playing basketball he plays basketball with his best friend Corbin blue right however it turns out that he's also a really excellent singer and he's really g