I care about things that make money or save it.  So when we were able to implement some of our backend systems from C and C++ into JavaScript and Node.js, I mean, I have all of the numbers that say how beneficial that was to us financially and to have another company come in completely abstract that I've never talked to and actually have a very resembling opinion and perspective on that was both validating and speaks well for making that decision again. All right, we're here saving money and making money. That's the focus of business. Node seems to be hot. Theos, Losh Nagle, thanks for coming inside theCUBE again. Great to see you. Thanks a lot. Great knowledge. Omni IT, great firm. Omni TI. Omni TI, sorry. It's all right, I messed it up. Okay, we'll be right back in five more minutes from Node Summit with more interviews. First time on theCUBE, baby. Rock and roll. I think it's probably five or six times I've been on theCUBE now. Right, at first the guys are just fun to work with. Pat, welcome back. Hey, always a pleasure to be in theCUBE. Hey, I'm about to go on theCUBE. You never know what's going to happen. I'm a three-time veteran of being on theCUBE. Hope many, many more. Chad Sackets, Chad, welcome to theCUBE. Dave, John, it's great to be here, man. I keep coming back because great insightful questions from John and from Dave. What face melting action have you seen here at the event and I know there's a lot of it. It's a great vehicle to communicate with a broad audience, a lot of folks watch. Great to have you back. Good job. All right, Craig Nunez, VPA Marketing at HP Storch. Thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. When people mention theCUBE, they're like, oh my God, I saw you on theCUBE and they're all excited about it. It's an experience, it's not just information. They experience kind of what's going on there. It's like real time, it's like they were there. That was like going to the gym. Legendary IBMer, CEO of Symantec and now CEO of Virtual Instrument. Great to have you on theCUBE. So for CUBE to be here at a conference like this, it's got 15, 20,000 people and sharing that live around the world, that's consistent with the way the world is evolving. So it's a wonderful meeting, wonderful meeting. John and Dave are amazing. I don't know how they keep everything in their heads the way they do. It's a great format and we're obviously seeing that this notion of real time coverage and a real conversation is what's driving us as a company and I said very seriously when the questions and the comments that we hear from them and from all the different guests here directly turn into the products that we build. Yeah, that was my first CUBE and I really enjoyed it. There was a rapid fire of questions. It made me think on my feet but they were very thought provoking and really got me going on analyzing the greatness of Arista and the greatness of theCUBE as well. John and Dave, the reason their approach works, they're not just guys reading down the question list, right, okay, next one, next one. They're, it's a conversation, right?  They're not going to settle for the marketing hype and the BS and all that stuff that the industry throws around. Come on, you got to hit them up on the HP question. A lot's changing HP, some turmoil at the top, obviously controversy. They're going to hold you down to the real facts, compare you to the choices our users have and have you respond to it on the spot, right? Thinking real time and so that's real talk, not just kind of a paper interview, I guess. I'm John Furrier with silkenango.com and I'm here with Dave Vellante. We are inside theCUBE. theCUBE is our flagship telecast. We go out to the events, extract all the signal from the noise and share that with you and great guest lineups. We've got CEOs, CTOs, all the top executives, bloggers, thought leaders, venture capitalists. I'm absolutely stunned by, because I know it demands 100% attention for these guys to be up there talking to people about a wide variety of technology topics, I can't believe these guys can make it so many days in a row. So I'm wondering how long they're gonna go home and pass out for after this. But it was incredible, they just do a fantastic job. If you're not having a conversation, then you're very scripted and if you're scripted, then you might be getting the right words, but you're often not getting the whole meaning and the whole depth of the conversation to the fullest extent. I think this is a heck of a lot more authentic. It comes straight from the heart and the brain. Sometimes you might forget to make some of your points if you're not a real-time thinker, but I think both from a participation and from a consuming point of view, it's much more real. Chris holds no punches. So I've been on a cube a number of times and I think the interesting thing about being in that particular venue in that format, they introduced me as, hey, half doesn't pull punches. Well, they don't either, right? They ask really difficult, uncomfortable questions sometimes and you can tell people and the positions and where they are in terms of what they're able or desire to speak of. You can tell where they are on that borderline between kind of just honestly answering questions versus kind of glossing over them. And I enjoy being there because I don't want to say I'm outspoken, but I honestly answer questions with the full intent of being able to be respectful to the people that I bring solutions to, right?  So I like being asked tough questions. I like answering them honestly and that's a fantastic venue for doing it.  Now this was my first time on the cube and I really got a chance to get to know John and Dave and they're really amazing guys. I mean, the knowledge that they come with, the topics that they could talk about, the people that they know and just bringing it all together in this live broadcasting forum, it's just fantastic. I mean, I just love it. I feel like a groupie or something, you know? In this environment, you know, the social environment, the real-time environment where we're in, right, people look through the marketing fluff very quickly and if it's not authentic, right, you know, they don't trust it anymore. So in this environment, I think it's a growing trend. Yeah. Welcome back. I'm John Furrier, you're the founder of SiliconAngle.com, SiliconAngle.tv and we are live in San Francisco, California for the Node Summit conference. This is a conference that celebrates the rapid rise of Node.js, a development environment that is just taking the world by storm. All the top alpha developers are here, hackers are here, executives are here, entrepreneurs are here, venture capitalists are here and this Node.js product is really becoming a framework for expanded productivity for developers, bringing out new mobile solutions to the marketplace and SiliconAngle.com is covering with theCUBE. theCUBE is our flagship telecast where we go out to the events and talk to people and interview them and get the knowledge and share that with you and we're here talking about what the impact is from developers building new mobile apps, web apps, to market, getting funding and all this activity around the developer marketplace that's driving massive innovation. Obviously San Francisco is where Ground Zero is for Node.js and we're here broadcasting live with SiliconAngle.com. So all the coverage you want to see go to SiliconAngle.com every day and that's where the innovation reference point is. I'm joined here for this segment with David Floyer who's co-founder of Wikibon.org, SiliconAngle's research group that does all the deep dives on technology, goes in the weeds, talks about all the key aspects of tech. David is a guru in IO and storage and systems. So David welcome back to theCUBE and great to have you. Oh thanks, it's great to be back again. So David we want to talk to you about what's going on here at Node.js. Obviously I want to get your perspective. You just wrote a manifesto on Wikibon.org and we wrote a blog post on it at SiliconAngle.com with all the links there. So go to SiliconAngle.com and look for that post if you're interested in the manifesto but you really did some deep dives around the future of systems around IO and before we go into depth on the manifesto I want to get your perspective around what's changing in the architecture of the internet and the internet applications that drive that. Obviously the systems that drive everything have storage, they have compute, they have IO network transport and now applications on the iPhone or mobile devices or the web need to leverage that environment and we're seeing that in two massive surges around cloud computing and the rise of the computer at the edge, the mobile device, the web app. So what's your take around Node.js, this Node Summit event and IO in particular? Oh, that's a great question and it's great to be here at the summit. There's a buzz, there's a huge number of young, extremely talented programmers here and they're tackling the problems of this mobile computing. They're tackling the problems of vast amounts of messages going between people from machine to machine, their mobile messages and what they're doing is providing a framework where very high speed transport of these messages, analysis of these messages, usage of these messages is going on and the speed is more important than absolute certainty of delivery of the message. So it's a new paradigm and obviously that's going to be a culture shock as it goes into the enterprise, which it will. It'll be a culture shock against people who are used to guarantee deliveries, absolute certainty, acid properties of database to be dealing with environments where guarantee is not absolute, acidity is not absolute and they will have to find new ways of solving these problems. So it's a very exciting time. So let's just talk about the applications on the web. So the web we're all used to Facebook and chat and instant messaging. We now have moved from this PC era to an era of mobility where you can have a cell phone, be logged on at home. So all these things are going on and massive amounts of people can connect to any different application at any different time. It puts a new kind of new constraints on subsystems or these computing systems. So describe that a little bit and what that means and the challenges of a developer who's just writing code, JavaScript or building a game, all this stuff has to take into account all this complexity. You have to abstract it out as much as possible and rely on great standards like HTML5. You have to extract as much as possible out into platforms like Node.js and make it quick and easy and simple to develop these applications with less skilled people. And that's what the joy of Node.js is, is that it's so simple, so quick and easy to develop. It's the sets of nodes being spun up all over the place and interfacing with each other and relying on services from other parts of the infrastructure to do the delivery to the Android or the Apple or do the delivery across on a global scale or planetary scale across the whole network. We get a lot of viewers from JustinDetTV and they're familiar with gaming and gaming has a lot of concurrency, a lot of simultaneous users, a lot of in-game complexity. They use a lot of big data to track all this stuff. So there's a lot of stuff that goes under the covers that a normal designer or programmer might not have to take advantage of, like operating systems, things like threading, all this complexity. So that's kind of new to this world and that's what this conference is about. You have been doing some real seminal work in this same area relative to big companies and we all know about Apple and Facebook have massive amounts of constraints and it has a lot to do with the storage and IO. So let's talk about your manifesto, your research piece that you posted called the IO infrastructure, IO-centric infrastructure, a little bit further. What was your key findings in your research? Well, the key finding, and I've been talking about it for some time, is that the disk systems themselves are the constraint on so many applications. If you're going to make sure you have guaranteed delivery of data, you have to put it onto some sort of disk. That's the only way you can guarantee that you'll find it when the system goes down. So that is, that constraint of disk is that disk is just so, so slow and very, very narrow path to a huge amount of data and they have not been speeding up at all. The amount of data you can store is massive on disk. It's very cheap per gigabyte, but the cost of it per IO has not come down at the same rate. So what's interested me is the use of flash devices and one of the things that happened very recently, which was seminal, was the demonstration of a billion IOPS system. It just took eight of these processes with 64 cards to deliver a billion IOPS. That was between Fusion IO and HP in San Francisco just a few weeks ago. And what I did in this one is, yeah. So HP and Fusion IO, so HP servers. HP servers. And Fusion IO. Proline 370 servers and Fusion IO, the IO memory cards, memory to Duo cards. Which is SSD or flash, right? Yeah. Which is the SSD, solid state, MLC cards. So an amazing amount of density of IO that could be generated. Now very small IO's, 64 bytes only in size. So very trivial in size compared with most applications, but really an amazing achievement. So can we go to your slide on the manifesto and talk about some of the components around this IO centric architecture? Right. So if we look at the slide, you'll see that there are five layers in this IO centric infrastructure. So the top layer is the working flash storage layer. So what we're looking at there is what came out of this demonstration is a very, very tight connection between the processor and the flash itself. So they're doing something called atomic writes. And what that means is that instead of going through the IO stack, which is thousands of instructions long, you're doing a single instruction and writing it two in one pass to the flash. And that is orders of magnitude faster than the previous ways of doing it. So that very tight coupling that use of atomic write, the first demonstration of this is really a breakthrough. And that allows huge amounts of IO to be processed very, very quickly indeed. And that's got real ramifications which we'll come to a little bit later on how you design systems in this sort of environment. So that's the first layer. The second layer is that, if you take the third layer next, the one in the middle, that's series of shared infrastructure, shared flashes. And lots of flash only or mainly flash devices, which are connected to that first layer. And then between the two is an active management layer to manage the flow of data from the top to that shared layer and back up again. This is the active data that you're focusing on. And the thesis is that almost all active data will be in flash over the next decade. It'll be where active data lies. So that's the first three of those. So who's impacted by this? Obviously there's some real success stories around here. Talk about the companies that are affected by this. I mean, also we've been following the rapid success of Fusion IO, went public, they've been on theCUBE since our first Cube gig, Solid Fire. And then EMC, the big whale in storage who's actually been servicing that market of normal storage. So to take us through the horses on the track here. Relatives of this. You've got Fusion IO, obviously a relatively newcomer. They came on board four years ago using PCI cards as opposed to SSDs. You've got HP who've been a partner with Fusion IO on the ProLiant servers and they've embraced this technology. So those are two leading horses. And HP is trying to bring together servers and storage into a single unit, into a single component that you buy together. And that's a very exciting strategy for them. It makes a lot of sense to bring those two things together. So the systems expertise of HP is going to be very important in looking for solutions in this area. You mentioned EMC as another player in this area. They project lightning, which is their announcement of getting into the flash and IO area. That's very interesting indeed because what they're looking to do is to put PCI cards into the servers and also manage those together with the arrays, the shared storage arrays in layer three on the diagram. So they have FAST, which is part of that active management of data level. They have FAST. They obviously will have caching to begin with. But the really interesting thing is when they get further down their program and start to introduce a cache coherency across the servers and the layer three. That's very interesting technology that will be necessary. Let's talk about the opportunity for Fusion IO Solid Fire and say EMC, for example. So here at Node Summit, talk is developers on the front end flexing their muscle becoming more back end. Like we talked with Matt Rainey, who's the founder of Voxer, one of the most successful fastest growing apps. And we chatted last night at dinner over a million, I think a million users a day or a month or whatever, large number, doing a lot of IO stuff. I asked him specifically if he's using any innovation on hardware. He said, I don't know, we just go with the hosting. So for him, they're kind of ignorant to what goes on in the back end. That's an opportunity for EMCs of the world. So how does EMC become better for this market as the market is obviously rising the tide on the developer side? How does the traditional storage vendors and the newbies like Solid Fire and Fusion IO, how do they service that market? It's a very, very interesting discussion and being part of that discussion, obviously the IO that he's talking about is audio. It's large amounts. If you lose a bit or two, it's not the end of the world. So it fits into the paradigm here at Node very well indeed. And for that particular application, may or may not be the right usage of this technology. But what is important is when you go into the enterprise, guarantee delivery becomes much more important. There is a desire to reduce risk, the impact of risk if you lose a transaction or something of that sort. So in that case, the guarantees come from being able to write as soon as possible to a persistent medium, in this case, the flash device. And that is extremely important for enterprise type applications. So EMC, if they go into this business, they're going to use their strong relationship with VMware, being able to add technology to the VMware level, the hypervisor level, being able to improve the IO, being able to write that IO and guaranteed or write a security of that IO. Those are areas which EMC can really add a tremendous amount to the infrastructure. So you're saying, if I read you correctly, the Node Summit, the Node.js opportunity actually helps these guys. EMC in solid firing. Oh, sure, yes, yes. There is a market out there that will want to do lots and lots of IO and that IO on disk is just as slow on a Node.js system as it is anywhere else. And these technologies will come in, in my view, up and down the stack. Let's talk about HP. HP storage and networking is doing very well within HP. Obviously, you mentioned the IOPS, one billion IOPS with Fusion IO, that was a demonstration with HP servers. Obviously, HP storage has a huge acquisition last year with 3PAR, that's large scale storage. So what does that mean for 3PAR? What does this all mean for 3PAR? Can you elaborate on the 3PAR, HP 3PAR storage component, once with the IO? One of the announcements that HP have made is the bringing together of servers and storage in packages, delivering them together. That's a very interesting development. The other very, very interesting development in this mid-range and this management across these devices are the federated storage that 3PAR has announced. So the ability to be able to move applications in the same way as VM, but do it from array to array is very, very exciting technology to be able to, if you like, virtualize movement across those sub parts of it. So there's a lot of technology there that they can bring to bear to help in this new type of a large IO environment. Obviously, they're going to have to make investments in the flash end as well within the array side, but they have a lot of interesting technologies to add that will be contributing to this. So this category four hurricane that I called earlier called Node.js is really on a collision course with these big guys like HP and EMC, because we heard from Theo Schlosschnegel who runs OmniTI, operating system guy works on large scale, big deployments, a lot of enterprise, a lot of service providers. His comment was legitimate around that a lot of these guys who are kind of getting more back end capabilities with Node just aren't visible to all the problems that go on in the lower level system components. So people who understand systems programming and systems design have been there before. There's more operational processes in place and it's always up and running. So these guys are going into an environment they just know nothing about really, and they're kind of ignorant. I mean, they don't, they could know in theory, but at practical purposes, this is really a perfect storm for HP three par and EMC lighting if they play their cards, right, is that correct? Absolutely, yeah, because at the end of the day you need operational systems that stay up and keep up. And that needs solid processes and solid quality processes, all of the normal infrastructure methods that have been done at the same time that Node.js people are doing things in record time in developing things and they have their massive contribution and the two together is going to be very exciting. You know, we've had Fusion I.O. on theCUBE and we've had SolidFire, great technologies, but SolidFire in particular, the CEO there was that we used to be with Rackspace. So he understands Rackspace and we just heard from the CEO that Rackspace has been quietly doing a lot of Node for their deployments. So it's interesting to see how SolidFire is very well positioned for this as to keep up with the scale of provisioning and deployment of I.O. and storage. And SolidFire, they've got a very interesting angle on particularly important in this area, which is that the key cost item in Flash is writes. And those are the things you've got to monitor and allocate out and cost for. So they've thought through very carefully the cost allocation infrastructure that's going to be allow service providers, for example, to be able to throttle or give specific amounts of I.O. And that's what people are going to be buying. It's not, there's more than enough gigabytes around the place. What they'll be buying is the I.O. capability and the rapid I.O. capability. And you've got to pay for that. And they don't want to give away I.O. If it's, if they're spare I.O., they just certainly don't want to give it away. Let me ask you about another company called Data Direct Networks or DDN. So I've been having conversations with John-Luc Chatelain who came from HP as a senior executive now at DDN. He ran a lot of the information governance services side of HP for years. Brilliant man. He's been on theCUBE. I got some great interviews with him and one-on-one with me. But fantastic technical and business leader. I've talked to their technical teams. They've come out with a very successful approach around object store, where you can store all this stuff. So where do they fit into this equation? Obviously that approach seems to work here. What's your take on DDN relative to all these new trends? Well, what we didn't go through is the last two layers of the manifesto, which is the archive management layer and then the base layer, which is mainly disk based. I mean, disk is not going away. Disk has got a very important part to play. So what you want to do then is that within the whole process, when you gather the data at the beginning, you're going to be doing the metadata and the indices right from the get go and be putting that into the third layer. And the advantage of that then is that when you create the archives or when you create the long-term backups, you've got all the metadata there. You've done the deduplication. You've done all the stuff to condense it down. And then at the back end, what you need is very high-speed devices, very cost-effective devices, both to store it and to distribute it across a network. So WAS is a great product that DDN have. Web object systems, that's great. Yes, web object systems. It's an object-based storage mechanism, which will allow you to distribute stuff across the whole of the network. And DDN have a great set of very high-speed low-costs. So that's a cloud opportunity and multi-geography opportunity, right? Absolutely. And again, this emphasizes, if you want to get that data back from that lowest level, it emphasizes absolute top speed of getting it back, especially sequential and large objects such as video. So we've got Fusion IO, SolidFire, EMC with their project lightning, HP3PAR obviously in that world. DDN is a candidate to benefit from these trends. What other clients are you following now that are interesting in this area that might make sense? Oh, we're following a lot of different companies. For example, one of the ones, which I've always been an advocate of, their technology is clever safe. They've brought in the ability to both to distribute IO archives across geographically and guarantee that they can recover if they distribute a slice, 20 different slices, they can guarantee, for example, they can recover from the loss of eight of them, enormous guarantees with far less overhead because of their use of erasure coding, far less overhead than the traditional RAID techniques or extra copies. So they've got some very interesting technology that's going to allow the bottom end of this to be able to distribute that storage safely. And at the same time, because the metadata and the indices are all in the active data, if they're required, they can be got up very quickly indeed and recovered. So again, this type of computing where they're allowed to have the indices and the hard stuff and process the archives before they're put down to disk is going to be a great boon to them and they're going to be working, I'm sure, very closely with a lot of archive vendors to add value in the space. So obviously a lot of funding coming into this sector and some new companies that are growing very rapidly besides the one solid fire, which we think is one of the hottest ones out there, is Verident. You've been talking to those guys, they just closed $21 million in a series C funding, very well funded, it's a flash, it's got performance aspect of it. We're all talking about performance here. This is all IO performance, right? So are they relevant in this conversation? Oh, absolutely, they have great PCI cards, they are very, very fast indeed. What Fusion IO showed was that latency really matters. It really helps if you take milliseconds, microseconds off things. Verident have taken it that even further. They've got some amazing capabilities in terms of response time. They're going to need to partner with people in this space to provide the same sort of services, particularly on the interface, close interface between the processes and the servers and the interfaces from the servers back to the mid range. But they're a very interesting company, some great technology, and I think if they get their partnerships right, they're going to be very successful. We'll put them on the list. So in summary, this node.js and quite frankly, mobile and cloud and social in general are rapidly changing and disrupting the architecture of how firms are organizing their IT infrastructure and service provider infrastructure. The benefits to the business line is driving top line revenue and also reducing costs, which is the key to business. Obviously the big players that take advantage of this that are positioned for success, HP with the three power acquisition, EMC gearing up with project lightning. We expect a big announcement this month or next month coming out something new there. Recently gone public fusion IO, upstarts like SolidFire, Verident and Cleversafe all positioned perfectly for this massive new surge and should drive a ton of revenue and a lot of competition. And that's good for these developers and this growing market. So great input, great manifesto, IT centric, infrastructure, clearly powering the developers. We're seeing that with Joian and all these guys powering some great solutions. And they need some back end help. And I think those systems guys will step up to the table and provide that level of expertise because we heard from Theo code breaks and that's normal in their operations. And that's okay, iterate, iterate, iterate. However, to run systems you can't be down. So I think there's going to be a really nice intersection here between the two. And there's one last thing I'd like to say is that what's going to drive this is that the applications that can be written with this type of technology are going to be completely new. They've been constrained by small amounts of IO. What you can do is consolidate those databases, you can link those databases, you can do your data warehousing at the same time as you're ingesting that data. That's going to lead to a completely new set of applications, the types of applications that we're seeing now in Node.js, for example. New applications, completely different paradigms of developing analytical applications. I think it's going to be the most exciting decade in computing that's coming up. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE.com and SiliconANGLE.tv and I'm here with David Floyer, co-founder and chief researcher at wikibond.org laying out his IT centric infrastructure thesis and research ties perfectly into all the thermal trends, mega trends around Node.js and the rapid, rapid rise of this new type of developer and it's really going to intersect beautifully with the existing market, great research, and this is all intersecting. It's a perfect storm for SiliconANGLE and wikibond, Dave, because we have been covering big data with Hadoop World, we have SiliconANGLE.com, we have DevOpsANGLE, we got ServicesANGLE, and this is right in our wheelhouse and we have the Stratoconference coming up around the corner. We're going to hear the big data angle, which again is the whole database, no SQL and SQL, all intersecting with this real-time and on-demand cloud computing storage IO. IO is the key to success. You've nailed it with your thesis and let's bring in Jeff Kelly, who's on top of the big data world at wikibond. He's the wikibond analyst and he's also going to be at Strata with us. Let's go remote if we can to Jeff Kelly from Boston, Massachusetts. Jeff, we've been following the conversation. I'd love to get your take on what's happening with the collision course between big data, the databases in cloud and IO and what did you take on that? Well, hi, John, thanks for having me on. Well, I think clearly the intersection here between big data and Node.js is all around application development, big data application development. I think that's really the next step we need to see in the big data industry. We've seen the infrastructure layer mature to the point where we're seeing more and more enterprises kind of go from POC environments to production environments, bringing in huge volumes of data. The next step is now that you've got that infrastructure in place is building and applying applications on top of it to kind of operationalize some of the insights you've gained from that big data to make it reusable. So I think that's really what we're talking about here is the ability to build these applications of bringing in real-time data along with someone where you're more traditional structured data. It really opens up a whole new range of possibilities for the types of applications you can build. What's your take on what's happening in the database world with big data? And obviously, you've been covering a lot of the big storage guys as it relates to big data. We've been talking about this notion of a systems programmer that's a little bit more deeper expertise in some of the front end JavaScript guys which has been exploding with success. They're kind of coming together and marrying the two. You've got EMC, HP3PAR, SolidFire, FusionIO, InvariDent, Cleversafe, and DDN all out there. What's your, how do you break down, how do you handicap the opportunity for the big guys to bring that expertise over to allow these guys to continue to scale as these new communities like Node and others continue to innovate at the front end of this? Well, I think certainly the big players are embracing movements like NoSQL. You've seen Oracle a couple of weeks ago releasing their big data appliance which incorporates Hadoop in the form of Cloudera's distribution along with their own NoSQL database based on the Berkeley DB. So I think the big players are in a good position right now. They're starting to understand the possibilities that these types of technologies are making possible. They're slowly, they currently don't move as fast as some of the startups and they're kind of taking a deliberate approach but we're finally starting to see some of the big players like Oracle, even SAP to a smaller degree kind of taking a different angle but also kind of embracing the notion of big data at least as they see it. So I think we're going to see more of that. I would expect in the big database NoSQL movement to see some consolidation in the next couple of years. I wouldn't be shocked if some of the new players were acquired by some of the bigger players. So I think slowly they're starting to get it and I think slowly they're going to start incorporating more of the big data NoSQL approaches into their product lines. So we heard from Theo Schlossschnegel who's a very huge maverick in IT and infrastructure systems program as a CEO of a company. He says his job as a CEO like others is to increase revenue and lower costs obviously. Pretty obvious that you don't need to go to business school to figure that out but he's also a geek and he runs the surge conference. We were really being critical of the word DevOps and he specifically talked about developers write code and expect operations just go do it where code breaks and operations guys can't break. I mean they run systems all day long. So he was kind of saying it's become this thankful job but in reality it should be ops dev. So obviously you deal with a lot of the serious vendors out there like EMC and HP3par who have to run these large systems of different levels of SLA performance that they have to deliver. What are you hearing from those guys relative to this new emerging trends around, okay I got it, it needs to run, be iterated, be fast, real time, cool, but it has to run. Sure, well that's the million dollar question. I mean the promise of big data has been out there for a while but the whole question is can you achieve the level of performance necessary to make it stable, to make it practical. So I think they're recognizing that. We're getting to the point as I said earlier where the infrastructure layer is starting to mature from the point where it's fairly stable. We can count on some few downturns, few downtimes but they have to understand that you have to balance the need for that kind of stable performance with the need to be, to innovate. So in the big data world it's kind of cutting edge. There are areas that still need to mature significantly but I think the whole question is balancing those two different sides of the equation. Well we know you're tracking those guys with David Floyer, we know that you're kicking some serious butt out there with Wikibon, we appreciate it. We know that obviously we know because we're working on it together. The cube will be at Strata coming up so do you have an update on Strata? What do you hear? I know you're talking to a lot of the vendors that will hopefully come on theCUBE and how's Strata coming together from a calendar standpoint editorial? What do you think Strata's going to be like this year? It's coming together great. Had a good conversation with that dumbbell last week actually from O'Reilly talking about some of the themes that we're going to be exploring there. Among them, the Duke in particular is going to take a larger role. You may have heard the Duke world and it's not going to be incorporated into Strata New York, which happens in the fall. So that's going to be one area that we're going to cover heavily. You're going to see a lot of the big MPP data warehouse vendors are going to all be there. So we're going to try to have all of them on try to help our audience kind of help them handicap those different vendors and the different options out there from that regard. And of course the application development situation is critical at this point in the big data landscape. Kind of that, as I mentioned with the plumbing so to speak, kind of maturing. It's time to start really building innovative applications to put that kind of data and insights into production. So we're going to see a lot of coverage of that. In terms of the guests, we're working hard. We're going to have a great lineup, just as we did at Hadoop World and at Strata last spring. You can expect all the major players to be on. And right now, we're just scheduling and getting it all set. It's going to be a great show. OK, with Jeff Kelly, big data analyst at wikibond.org, tracking the big data space and storage. Thanks for coming in, teleprompting in here. Appreciate it on Skype. Say hi to Dave Vellante over there in Boston, Massachusetts. We really appreciate your insight. And we'll see you at Strata in California. Great. Looking forward to it. Thanks, John. Well, David Floyer, I'll see your colleague, Jeff Kelly, really sharp guy, great writer, on top of the big data space, which is Hadoop, and now MapR and all the proprietary approaches. It's really converging in with this world. And for the folks out there, siliconangle.com and wikibond, work together with research and publishing, siliconangle.com is the reference point for all the real-time information and all the in-depth knowledges on wikibond.org, like the research paper that David wrote about, IT-centric infrastructure. Siliconangle.com is now a network. We have multiple verticals. We have launched this year Services Angle with support from EMC. We really appreciate EMC there. Services Angle, I guess, is the ops dev section of our programming, more the higher-end uptime services models with EMC, the HPs, and IBMs of the world, the sensors, et cetera. DevOps, which we launched today, is much more of the software side of the approach. So what we're doing at Siliconangle and wikibond is we're really going to surround the castle in this marketplace because the disruption is real, the architecture is changing, approaches are changing, business models are changing, and we're going to cover it from all the angles. DevOps to Services Angle. So I'm pretty excited. And how do you feel about that? I feel great. And just going back to the conversation with Jeff, and we're looking at big data now, being able to bring in lots and lots of data for analysis, and we're looking at the big data from a transactional point of view, being able to manage these huge numbers of messages going between machines and people and two devices of all sorts. So we're getting a massive increase in the amount of data that's there, the amount of data to be processed. So we're having a combination of big data for transactions, big data for analytics coming together and changing the way that business is run. I just, you know, I got a degree in computer science and my operating systems background and database and operating systems and the word systems software was a word that feel and a lot of people are kicking around and Steve Herrod talked a lot about because he's a total OS geek is real. People get pumped up, this is an operating system. The playground of development is emerging, new things are happening, but it's interesting. You got system software, but we got an end to end of the spectrum of software and systems coming together. So it's going to be very interesting to watch the evolution of these worlds coming together and will it be a total collision? Will it integrate well? Who drives what? Who's enabling who? Right now it seems to be, you know. You've got the collision between the hypervisors, the operating systems, the file systems, the database systems, all of these coming together and they're going to be jockeying for their position in the chain and the food chain and wanting to dominate as much as possible. So it's a very, very exciting area. The beautiful thing of all that, the benefit to society is better apps, more solutions, whether it's Salesforce automation down to gaming, right? So, you know, we're seeing a ton of innovation. This explosion is something that we've heard time and time again here at this conference and other cube gigs we've done from senior executives to entrepreneurs like I haven't seen this much excitement and change for decades. We've seen, gone through server consolidation with virtualization. We've gone through storage consolidation with virtualization and now we're going to go through application consolidation, database consolidations which are going to simplify the way that businesses are run, reduce the cost of running those business and allow them to do things they couldn't even dream about before, so it's a very exciting time. Very exciting, we're here at Node Summit Live, where Node.js is going front and center and it's creating some innovation. We heard from David Fleuer about the systems change and siliconangle.com and wikibond.org provide free open source content. You can take it, it's free. We don't charge for it. We want to empower knowledge, the cube broadcast live video and Dave, I want to congratulate you on some really cutting edge work around this new concept of IO-centric architecture and infrastructure. It's brilliant, it spans across not just storage and enterprise, but it's spanning into the cloud world. So we'll be watching with DevOps angle all the way through services angle and again, our motto is cloud mobile, social silicon angle, where computer science meets social science, we're going to continue to bring that to you. Thanks for watching, we're going to be back in five minutes with more interviews from Node Summit in San Francisco, California. First time on the cube, baby, rock and roll. I think it's probably five or six times I've been on the cube now. Right, at first the guys are just fun to work with. Pat, welcome back. Hey, always a pleasure to be in the cube. Hey, I'm about to go on the cube, you never know what's going to happen. I'm a three time veteran of being on the cube, hope many, many more. Chad Sackets, Chad, welcome to the cube. Dave, John, it's great to be here, man. I keep coming back because great insightful questions from John and from Dave. What face melting action have you seen here at the event? And I know there's a lot of it. It's a great vehicle to communicate with a broad audience, a lot of folks watch. Great to have you back, good job. All right, Craig Nunez, VPA Marketing at HP Storch. Thanks very much for coming on the cube. When people mention the cube, they're like, oh my God, I saw you on the cube. And they're all excited about it, it's an experience, it's not just information, they experience kind of what's going on there. It's like real time, it's like they were there. That was like going to the gym. Legendary IBMer, CEO of Symantec, and now CEO of Virtual Instrument. Great to have you on the cube. So for cube to be here at a conference like this, it's got 15, 20,000 people and sharing that live around the world, that's consistent with the way the world is evolving. So it's wonderful to be here, wonderful to be here. John and Dave are amazing, I don't know how they keep everything in their heads the way they do. It's a great format and we're obviously seeing that this notion of real time coverage and a real conversation is what's driving us as a company. And I said very seriously, when the questions and the comments that we hear from them and from all the different guests here directly turn into the products that we build. Yeah, that was my first cube and I really enjoyed it. There was the rapid fire of questions. It made me think on my feet, but they were very thought provoking and really got me going on analyzing the greatness of Rista and the greatness of the cube as well. John and Dave, the reason their approach works, they're not just guys reading down the question list, right? Okay, next one, next one. It's a conversation, right?  Come on, you got to hit them up on the HP question. A lot's changing HP, some turmoil at the top, obviously controversy. They're going to hold you down to the real facts, compare you to the choices our users have and have you respond to it on the spot, right? Thinking real time and so that's real talk, not just kind of a paper interview. I'm John Furrier with silkenango.com and I'm here with Dave Vellante. We are inside the cube. The cube is our flagship telecast. We go out to the events, extract all the signal from the noise and share that with you and great guest lineups. We've got CEOs, CTOs with all the top executives, bloggers, thought leaders, venture capitalists. I'm absolutely stunned because I know it demands 100% attention for these guys to be up there talking to people about a wide variety of technology topics. I can't believe these guys can make it so many days in a row. So I'm wondering how long they're going to go home and pass out for after this. But it was incredible. They just do a fantastic job. If you're not having a conversation, then you're very scripted and if you're scripted, then you might be getting the right words but you're often not getting the whole meaning and the whole depth of the conversation to the fullest extent. I think this is a heck of a lot more authentic. It comes straight from the heart and the brain. Sometimes you might forget to make some of your points if you're not a real-time thinker but I think both from a participation and from a consuming point of view, it's much more real. Chris holds no punches. So I've been on a cube a number of times and I think the interesting thing about being in that particular venue in that format, they introduced me as, hey, half doesn't pull punches. They don't either, right? They ask really difficult, uncomfortable questions sometimes and you can tell people and the positions and where they are in terms of what they're able or desire to speak of. You can tell where they are on that borderline between kind of just honestly answering questions versus kind of glossing over them. And I enjoy being there because I don't want to say I'm outspoken but I honestly answer questions with the full intent of being able to be respectful to the people that I bring solutions to.  So I like being asked tough questions. I like answering them honestly and that's a fantastic venue for doing it.  Now this was my first time on the cube and I really got a chance to get to know John and Dave and they're really amazing guys. I mean, the knowledge that they come with, the topics that they could talk about, the people that they know and just bringing it all together in this live broadcasting forum, it's just fantastic. I mean, I just love it. I'm like, I feel like a groupie or something, you know? In this environment, you know, the social environment, the real-time environment where we're in, right, people look through the marketing fluff very quickly and if it's not authentic, right, you know, they don't trust it anymore. So in this environment, I think it's a growing trend. Yeah. Okay, we're back live in San Francisco. California for the Node Summit. We're here at probably one of the most progressive developer events, business events around Node and Node.js. But really, we're talking about all the recent advancements around the web, web 2.0, web 3.0, what we want to call it and we're excited by that. And we're here with Peter Chang, who's the CEO of Oxygen Cloud. Peter, welcome to the cube. Thank you, glad to be here. So tell us about Oxygen Cloud and what you guys are doing right now and your company gives a quick background and we'll jump into some specific questions. Okay, let me give you a kind of high level and then talk about the background. So what Oxygen provides, what we offer is a platform for companies to give their employees cloud storage services. The twist here is that they can use their own storage. So storage hardware that they've already invested in, that they have experience managing, stuff that they control, and can gain assurances on in terms of security and uptime. So it's giving them the cloud without losing control, is in essence what we're providing. And what's the status of the company? Where you guys are in terms of funding and size, employees? Yeah, so I founded the company in 2000, actually last year. So we've been running for a year. The product was released, the first cut of it was in June of last year. So we've got about two quarters worth of activity. The company is privately funded, we're about 30 people and we're gaining really strong traction. So the marketplace is really being driven by the iPad adoption and the acceptance of iPads and the enterprise and people looking for how they can leverage iPad as a productivity tool. Which has some interesting implications, doesn't it? I mean, in terms of what kind of solution you offer, as we know, you have a partnership with EMC. And tell us about the virtual appliances that you're integrating right now and what are you kind of seeing from customers as a result of installing that type of appliance? Yeah, so the typical customer that comes to us starts off with a question of, we've got iPads, they're in the enterprise, people are bringing them to the on-premise and data is going onto these devices. They've asked us, how do we support iPad? How do I get access to my work content from my iPad? And IT doesn't have it already answered, so they come to us with that. Basically, how do we sync and share this content on the iPads? EMC is a very strong partner in that space. They are in, of course, it's a major storage company and they're involved with all the leading companies that are out there. And what we provide with them is what we've developed is a joint solution using oxygen as the connector as the front end and EMC storage as the back end. We're able to give enterprises the ability to roll out these services for access on their iPads, on their iPhones, and on desktop devices. So on the compare and contrast, the hot companies out there on the consumer side are Boxnet, Box.net, Dropbox, consumers know those. How do you guys compare, just for the folks out there who aren't familiar with oxygen, how do you compare versus, because those guys are pumping up a lot of hype, Box.net is out there saying that they're enterprise, cloud, what does that mean and how you guys compare? Yeah, we have similar features. So I think the market sees that and wonders what's the difference. Fundamentally, the big difference is in our approach. So a Box takes a web portal approach to how you share information. Dropbox is a synchronization service. How do you sync all these devices with S3 as the back end storage? Oxygen really acts more as a hub, as a hub connecting devices on-premise storage together and linking that all into one seamless system so you can get that seamless access, anywhere access to content, but without giving up any of your controls. So on storage, obviously storage is a big part of EMC's business and companies. Explain this on-premise cloud solution you mentioned is you have similar features or Box, but you're also on-premise. What does that all mean? Yeah, so the way our solution works with EMC is we support EMC Atmos, which is the object-based storage product. We also support VNX and Isilon, which are more traditional network storage devices. The way a solution gets deployed is we would drop in a virtual appliance that would sit on-premise in front of this storage infrastructure that already exists and connect that into the cloud. And by that appliance acts as a bridge to connect it to the Oxygen cloud service, which all the devices are connected to, and we broker access to that storage. How is the identity managed? Yeah, that's a great question. The Oxygen is all about giving you the abilities of the cloud without compromising your control. So a big part of control is how you define who users are. In a typical enterprise, there's an LDAP or Active Directory system.  So when a user says, hey, I'm Joe, I want access to this space, we would ask that device, ask that service, which would then consult with the on-premise AD directories and tell us, okay, this is Joe and we would give him access. So in that way, enterprise is controlling not only the storage and the content, but also the identities. These are the key elements to controlling access. So you can follow the same security protocols that you would normally? Yeah, yes. And that's what's been so attractive is that what companies today, when they think about supporting iPad, they're sort of faced with this choice of, the current solution is just to push it all into the cloud. Just upload it into a cloud storage application and kind of wash your hands of it and walk away. That's not very attractive for obvious reasons. So we give them a bridge. We provide companies with a way to offer those services without throwing away all their existing investments and controls. And that approach that we take is, again, a hub that acts sort of as this super connector with user devices, storage, active directory, content repositories, all plugging into this one system. How is it integrated with a tablet device or a mobile device? Yeah. Do you guys have apps that you offer? So we have our own Oxygen application on iPad, iPhone, Android. But we also support WebDav as a protocol so you can get to content, say, from your keynote or from your quick office, which is another partner of ours, to open up Word documents, edit it, and save it right back into storage. So creating that complete loop around access to content, not only getting to it, but pushing it back into the enterprise. I see. So what have you seen in terms of devices and device management issues over the past year that companies are coming to you with and when they're trying to figure out how to manage just any kind of data that their users come across, either developing their cells or ingesting from a third party or from a team inside the company? Right. So a big part about the iPad adoption is it's tied up with this whole trend of bring your own device. And that creates a big problem for companies in that when somebody leaves, you can't ask them for that device back to get rid of that data. So this endpoint control extending to tablets and to iPhones, ability to control the content that's going in there without actually controlling the physical device is a big deal. So we offer that as well. All the data that is coming into the iPad through oxygen is stored in an encrypted state, still accessed controlled by the Active Directory and by central admins. So a company can give that data to an iPad, but they can be assured that all that content remains under their control. So if somebody were to leave the company, for example, you don't have to worry about getting that iPad. You can just turn off their access and remove the content. So you can essentially just cut the cord. Yeah, you can just cut the cord. So this is a security model. Can you wipe it then too? You will also be able to wipe it. We don't have that capability yet, but that will be rolling out very soon. If they did that, they'd be wiping the entire device.  That's actually what happens today is that when a company say, when you link your iPad to your enterprise, the deal is we can remote wipe the entire thing if it's lost, which is not a good thing. That's like actually some litigation. So we approach it at a much more granular level. We control the security models around the content rather than around the device. And this allows us to gain much more control over all of that information, but also support many, many more devices in a more fluid way, which is how users want to be able to access IT these days. So tell me who your users are these days. How would you break them down? We offer two services. One is a pro cloud, and the other is an enterprise cloud. The pro cloud is targeted for teams, and enterprise cloud is for company-wide deployment. So our users run the entire gamut, mostly in the executive ranks, because when employees bring their iPad, their brand new shiny iPad to work and say, I want to be able to use this to access my content, oftentimes that's the CEO. And so we see adoption driving actually from the top, which is very different from how it's traditionally done, sort of rounds up from the fringe departments. But the usage of it is pretty broad. Every group needs it. This is a horizontal problem. Everybody needs access to content, and they want to do it in this new style, and that's what we support. It's interesting how something had such an impact on the company because the CEO has decided to adopt it. I mean, it makes sense, but it's just fascinating how quickly that can happen. Yeah. The enterprise business is, you know, it's a fickle business. The consumer business is different, right? I mean, box.net is really, I mean, I've said it's a consumer company, and a couple guys put their credit card down and they're now an enterprise client because they work there. And they're trying to be more enterprise. You have a dedicated sales force, Whitney, who's been on theCUBE, talked about the strategy at Box. They're all about sharing, and it all sounds great and all. But IT in the enterprise is about stability. So I'd like to talk about two things. One, the requirements of those enterprises. Yep. Okay, and two, the explosion of new requirements that are driving their use cases. Like mobile, we mentioned iPad. You mentioned the usage of iPad. So they'll, I'll see Salesforce, Business Analytics, EMC, you mentioned as a partner. They're big on, big data meets cloud. So now you have connected devices in the enterprise. So, you know, business line managers are saying, hey, I want some of that cloud, but I also want certain requirements like security, stability, production systems. Can you just talk about those two things? Yeah. The way I would think about all of this is that, as the, you know, we know that iPad is making profound changes for regular users. This PC is no longer the center of the universe. You've got lots of devices and that's changing how people consume. But what we don't really see and what we're seeing a lot of now, we're recognizing is that a lot of what IT's strategies and investments are around is centered around the PC. Controlling data and providing access, it's all PC centric. And that's no longer working. So that's driving a lot of change. So the customers that we're talking with, they're re-examining everything. How do we fundamentally control security? How do we fundamentally deal with offering, competing with consumer services, right? How do we offer these new start applications while still doing their jobs, which is governance, IT governance, maintain control, maintain compliance, keep control costs, et cetera. This is where oxygen really shines is that our approach right from the beginning was to create a service that was flexible that can be dropped into enterprise, help them sort of adopt all the new technologies, but in a way that isn't so disruptive to them that they gotta give everything up. So as they're thinking about what they need to do, I think a new model is essentially forming around how you deal with enterprise security, around enterprise content, around devices, relationship with users. I think that change is going to be just as profound as personal computing and it'll probably take a few years to play through. And the first steps there are how do we support these end-user devices in the corporate environment effectively? What's the number one use case that you guys are seeing that takes advantage of oxygen? Is there any one trend that you say this is a use case that we are absolutely focused on initially in terms of getting that market position? And what is that? And what are some of the things that you're hearing? Yeah, the very first, the big use case for us, and I think the big first use case when enterprises start thinking about the iPad is how do they get access to enterprise content from this new device, from this new medium? It could be content that they want to access because they're in the field. A pharmaceutical sales rep, I've got lots of literature instead of lugging around big bags worth of paper I can carry around my iPad and get the latest brochure and sales information directly on my iPad. We see a lot of that field enablement as an initial push. We see in the executive ranks this idea that we don't have to carry big bulky laptops or even thin laptops around anymore that we can carry all of our information with us on our smartphones or on our tablets and be able to jump into a meeting and be productive right away. Mark Hopkins and I, the editor of SiliconANGLE.com and I were talking about probably the most popular story on SiliconANGLE this week is the mega upload. Obviously, Nodesum is driving a lot of popularity today but the mega upload has been a shot across the bow as you and I were talking before we came on about these cloud based consumer sites where there's a lot of SOPA related kind of entertainment rights issues and that's a challenge for the box.net of the world and other folks, Dropbox. Is your on-prem solution, take care of that and how do you dance around this new trend that's pretty obviously disrupting business models of these guys? Yeah. So our service is clearly geared at companies that want to deploy cloud storage and support all these new devices. And our product, our services, our support, our sales are all familiar to the enterprise customer. So when, and this is a big important distinction because what they are competing against, what the enterprise is often competing against are consumer services that are grabbing their users and their data is being sucked into these environments where you got issues with is the data really there? How much control do you have? What happens when somebody makes a SOPA claim or makes a claim that you are hiring data? What happens to all of that? So our solution insulates our customers from these issues. This is a pure business service that data is not commingled with say some kid uploading their music or their video. The content is controlled within your own company. It's not used by anybody else. So that draws the lines clearly so that there's no ambiguity in terms of what the usage of the data is for. When a customer asks you about your business model, how do you explain oxygen to them when they say, okay, what is your business? What business are you in? How should they, what is your story to them? Yeah, there is what we do today and what we started the company trying to do. So when I founded the company, when I started the company at last year, we started with a couple of major sort of key beliefs. One is about the mobile and how that is changing the user's relationship with their device and the other is how the enterprise needs to react to that and that there are great opportunities to leverage these new devices, to create more productivity, to create more innovation and be more agile. Providing access, mobile access to storage, that's our first step. That's the first service that we're offering to move the companies in that direction but we have a whole pipeline of products that will be coming out. We are in the business of making companies successfully adopt the cloud. That's fundamentally what we're geared to doing is how do you companies take advantage of all of these new changes to improve their businesses and to increase their ability to control their environment? Is the challenge a user interface challenge or is it a technical challenge or both? It's all of the bluff. I think the cloud is so awesome because it doesn't look at, it's awesome and it's gaining lots of traction because it fundamentally doesn't look at one aspect of the problem. It looks at the entire ecosystem. It looks at the entire stack of issues. So in order to effectively execute a new solution for the cloud, you've got to look at all of the above. So it's not only the user interface because it clearly has to be very, very easy for users to accept and to adopt but it also needs to be very intelligent. It needs to be very network aware and be able to plug in and connect with everything else that's going on to create this effect. We're here with Peter Chang, the CEO of Oxygen Cloud inside theCUBE, our flagship telecast. We go out to the events, talk to the smartest people, we can share that knowledge with you. My final question is around what's next? I'll see you as CEO of a growing company. You founded it, you're the founder, CEO. It's hard to do startups. You're always kind of innovating and trying to keep pace with the business. What are your big challenges as you head the company up and going forward this year and looking out the next five years? What's on your mind and what are your key challenges and opportunities? Yeah, the key challenge for me is about maintaining that focus on the future because I think oftentimes you launch a product and you get sucked up into what's happening today right now and you lose the ability to actually create that breakthrough, that innovation. So preserving that forward-looking innovation is the big challenge. The big opportunity for us is, I think clearly this is happening over the next one, two years that everything is going to change, that the cloud is going to become a significant content repository. There's a significant way that we interact with all of our information. And Oxygen seeks to be the platform that bridges now into that future, that I would define our success in a couple of years that a large percentage of the world's corporate information is flowing through the Oxygen cloud. I've heard that as much as 40% of cloud spend will be on storage, is that accurate? I think that is the, I'm not sure if it's accurate, but that is the biggest immediate usage of cloud. Yeah, so it's not 40%, it's leading. It's a huge part and if you look at Amazon spending, you'll see that S3 store is generating a significant part of the consumption. I'd have one recommendation, stay in the storage business, that's what I would say. Stay in the storage business, all right. Well, the sum of this, the event here is all about a lot of IO, real-time web, and obviously collaboration and leveraging data has been a big part of what we've been doing at SiliconANGLE, and that's storage, and that's the storage, depending on where you want to put the storage, it's in some ways on-prem and in the cloud, it has some economical benefits. But it's a constant challenge to maintain the regulatory, the auditing.  Is it a mess? Is it easy to deal with it? It's probably not easy, you guys make it easier, but how do you guys talk to customers around the notion of compliance and keeping their data, making it fresh, active data, but at the same time, stable, secure, stable, and available? Yeah, that's actually a great story for us to tell, because as a side effect of putting stuff into oxygen, you actually know, you begin to know everything. You begin to know where all your content is, who's accessing, what it is, how often it's used, that allows you to drive compliance, reporting requirements, that allows you to compliance, drive ways to reduce storage costs, because you know what's real important storage, what isn't, contrasts this with traditional storage, which is file sitting on file servers. You don't really know, right? Stuff goes on to file servers and file servers never die and you never know when you can take that thing down and you don't know what's happening in it. So it's sort of a little counterintuitive, but putting in a cloud approach to file storage, to content actually ups your visibility, ups your ability to understand what's going on for compliance reasons, for governance reasons. And analytics for business management, right? And absolutely for analytics. So storage is the beginning point, because everything centers around content, but what happens as you go forward is how do you drive more capabilities, either features or solutions on top of the storage that you're capturing. Okay, Peter Chang, CEO of OxygenCloud. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Thanks for coming up and visiting us here at Node Summit and we're really looking forward to covering you guys, hot startup, OxygenCloud, founder, CEO. Peter Chang, we'll be right back in five minutes. We're back here live in San Francisco, California for the Node Summit, node.js is the hottest thing and the developer community rapid rise in popularity, application development. We're here with theCUBE, SiliconANGLE.tv's flagship telecast where we go out with an HD studio, talk to the smartest people we can find, entrepreneurs, venture capitalists, executives, we don't care if they have knowledge, we want to share that with you. I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconANGLE.com and welcome back and pleased to announce the new vertical publication called DevOps Angle, which is a new section of SiliconANGLE dedicated to the developer community around Node, around DevOps, around OpsDev. However you want to talk about it, this is a phenomenon that is changing the guard in computing and computer science and coding, this new mindset, this new architecture, and it's really exciting. So Node Summit is really the first event that really changes the mindset around development, where JavaScript and HTTP are the front stage of development and systems design to build scalable mobile apps and web apps. So I'm excited, we're excited at SiliconANGLE.com to bring you the coverage and I want to introduce Charles Bieler who worked behind the scenes, investing in a lot of companies. He's a partner at El Dorado Venture Capital, a very successful business over there, he's invested in Compellant, Solta Dell on a variety of other companies. Charles, welcome to the back to theCUBE, CUBE alumni. Thank you. I'll say you've been working behind the scenes, financing a lot of the companies in Node, it's an area that you have interest in. You also know the enterprise space, you know the storage space. SiliconANGLE, as you know, has been covering the storage like a blanket. We're all over the IO concepts, David Floyd just wrote a manifesto around IO infrastructure. IO used to be confined to storage and networking, but now we have IO issues around changing an architectural fundamental change in how code's being written and Node represents that. So share with us your inner dealings and content that you can share with us around Node and what your experience is. Yeah, absolutely. So we actually started this conference and we started it because we're big believers in Node and really big believers in what Node represents in terms of the ability to start to deliver real-time communications, real-time connectivity to millions of devices at a time. So I started this with my co-conspirator, Mark Lewis, who I know you guys had some news about yesterday, I thought did a great job with, and Andy Janks, one of the guys who works with him, and we were talking last April about Node and the conversation was, what's interesting about it, what should we do with it? And the agreement was, it was past this point of just a cool technology if you guys were playing with and there were enough businesses out there who actually deployed it, were starting to deploy it. It was time to expose that in a different way. So we started Node Summit. Along the way, I spent time with folks at Joiant and subsequent to that, ended up joining as an investor and I'm on the board. You just saw the big $85 million announcement we came in to around just prior to that. Phenomenal company, obviously they're the ones shepherding Node in the community. I think they've done a fantastic job of really making sure it's a community effort, not a joint effort, it's the most important thing to them because their business is not about Node, but Node is one of the things that they see as a key driver to where their business goes over time. So Node Summit, obviously, we'll talk about some validation points because as a VC, you see a lot of deals and obviously there's some validation here. We're going to get to that in a minute. Let's talk about Node Summit, the event. So we've covered Hadoop Worlds and we've covered Stratas, we've covered the Emerald Lot of other shows and this one has a nice balance between tech developer, developer, developer, developer but it's got validation in the business side mainly because it's moving so fast. You don't have the tracks, it wasn't designed that way. So talk about why the conference was designed this way just to kind of clear the air because there's some people on Twitter saying, hey, Node tracks on not enough technical side but it was by design to put it this way. So explain to the folks the purpose behind the designs, the first conference, there's a ton of momentum and I don't know if you saw it but yesterday I called the Node category four hurricane mainly because there's so much business interest and there's stakeholder in this. So talk about that. So we tried to be really clear when we started the conference that we did not want to be a dev conference. The NodeConf is a phenomenally good conference around Node. Michael Rogers who's here, he's on stage later and I think he's going to come speak with you guys. Runs that. JSConf, we didn't want to do a dev conference. What we really talked about when Mark and Andy and I sat down was let's do something that tries and it's not just the first conference but in some ways it's the first time anyone's ever tried to do this with an event which is let's bridge those communities. Let's get the dev guys here. Let's get the hardcore Node community here and let's bring in more of as they like to affectionately call us the suits and talk about not just what the technology is but what's interesting about it and why enterprises should be and in reality are adopting it. And some of it we've got right. A few things we'll probably change next time around assuming there is one but I think there will be and it seems to have worked in that. We're getting some of these core developer guys, the guys who DevOps angles are going to be covering day and night coming in and saying you know I'm realizing my role here is I know Node and I need to be an ambassador to a much larger community of people who are just understanding what it is and it's just been fantastic to see the Node community embrace it. I frankly think it says a lot about the community in Node specifically, the way they work and at the end of the day and you've met with them it comes down to the guy who started it, Ryan and his personality is just one of the most down to earth casual people you ever talk to very laser focused on making Node something that works for everybody and I think the entire community around Node has followed suit. Yeah and we were talking earlier with Tom Hughes Crocker who wrote the book on Node that this community is a respectful community but professional, right? So it's an interesting developer community because there's not a lot of mud slinging there's some arguments and some debates here and there but for the most part, not a lot of group think some contentious good conversations but respectful and very professional and so it's kind of refreshing to see in this day and age of arrogance sometimes around and people having some integrity here so I just want to say congratulations on that. Thanks and on that, you know and Tom's a great example of it he's a phenomenal guy, we've got him as a judge here spending time and I wish I could tell you what the magic seeker was I think to some degree it's because the Node guys who realize that the world isn't all about Node and there have been some of these communities who've over time have lost sight of what their main purpose was and wanted to be sort of all things to all people I think you see with Node they talk a lot about other projects a lot of things that integrate in and work well with Node and are important for Node based apps to work and that's somewhat unique with some of the other communities as they've grown over time. Talk about the validation now so let's get back into some of your working days within the community you said you saw Node kind of a rise on the scene companies are out there talk about some of the validation points you know you're an investor you know you're well educated you look at deals you can sniff out a good deal you got a good instincts what jumped out of the screen on you on this whole segment obviously it's growing you can see the social proof as Angelus talks about what's the validation points you said hey this is a winner well first I have to thank you for using investor and educated in the same sense we don't get that much we appreciate it how did we weave that in there the so really it happened as I started to spend time with some of the people at Join who already knew Brian Kentrell is a VP engineering and I've known each other for years we sat on a board of a magazine called ACMQ a lot of smart people sit on that board all of them smarter than me and a great opportunity for me to kind of hear what's going on hear what people are talking about and as we started talking about does this conference make sense we started to hear stories from guys who you know we're here yesterday so Emerson Emerson's a hundred year old company that makes really boring technology you install in homes but when you step back and look at it and some guys came up to me afterwards and said so that company could have the largest deployment of node in the world on a device basis in six months they're literally rearchitecting their systems in node because they've seen the value of what node can do in terms of the efficiency in sensors and in large networks with lots of nodes and so those types of companies Ericsson's and other ones here you see Yahoo you see eBay both announcing platforms for developers heavily based on node Rackspace who's got some folks here and running around just announced last week some things they're doing around node so we're just seeing some of these big companies come in and start talking about it publicly and we're hearing about a lot of other companies and since they've never told me this directly I'll out some of them Netflix the first time I went and did a search in Google for Node.js one ad came up and it was an ad from Netflix we're hiring node.js engineers this was 12 months ago Netflix has done a lot with Node internally they don't I think want to talk about it publicly which is absolutely up to them Bloomberg has done a lot with Node they've talked about it somewhat publicly they would love to have been here and if we go to New York for the next event they said they'll be there some Twitter guys are here I don't think they've got anything out in deployment but I know they're spending a lot of time with this and frankly and last night or yesterday the Google guy didn't really it was a no comment comment I've heard from multiple guys over there that they look at Node in a number of situations to decide is this a use case for it so these large companies are adopting it a big way LinkedIn's been very public about it it's beyond just hey I'm hacking it and I'm a little startup in a garage which I'm sure we'll talk about more but it's these big companies validating that this stuff's ready to go there's a lot more work to do but we're comfortable putting it out and having our customers use it which is pretty compelling what's your funding thesis as you look at startups out there obviously you're seeing a lot of startups here with the Node Jam Day 2 here at Node Summit which is really all about the startup side of it kind of a demo day if you will jamming on Node yesterday was the day one it was the official kind of the conference what's your investment thesis around the kinds of dollars you deploy and I want you to talk about it in two categories one, the kind of capital you'll outlay in a seed series A, series B and then what you see as a duration of the financing total capital you might put in so we're a relatively small firm we're huge, huge believers in capital efficiency for companies especially at the early stages we also are enterprise focused so historically capital efficiency and enterprise startups didn't necessarily go hand in hand Node is a perfect example of things that are changing that are making that possible you can get more done in less time you spend less money getting there so we're seeing companies where we can invest today half a million dollars so Badgerville is a good example of one of our companies half a million dollars four months after they launched that company they were generating revenue they generated more revenue in the first two quarters and they raised in those two quarters and last year they had just a phenomenal year raised a big round that Northwest led we came in so what we like to be able to see is really low capital needs on the front end and it's an ethos between the entrepreneur who believes in it the technology they're using that allow things like joint where you don't have to buy data center spacing where you can turn up an instance when you want to you can turn it down when you're turning off when you're done it allows you to get capital efficiency through a much longer cycle of a startup we see more progress in a shorter period of time for the startups there's less dilution and less money at risk and then as these enterprise startups start to get to where they need scale they have sales teams they need to build they do need to spend more money they need more capital so for us half a million on the front end could be eight, 10 million overall but the bulk of that money is going to come after these companies have been able to start scaling and at El Dorado we've actually been doing a lot lately specific to the enterprise space to build programs to help extend that efficiency through the sales cycle work with channel sales work with sales strategy because we actually think it's possible to do things like Compelent 56 million dollars raised we think nowadays you can do Compelent on potentially as little as half of what it took them from when they started that's why you put all the big money in the 85 million dollar round you got to spend it otherwise you're not going to be able to raise another fund the 85 million dollar round was an interesting one well I'm obviously as an entrepreneur I'm usually obviously capital efficient with Silicon Angle self-financed it and growing it internally with no outside capital and we don't need any more money we're cash flow positive and growing and it's exciting and I can tell you right now that technology will be an enabler to actually scale faster and one of the exciting things that I see with Node is this new architecture change around IO infrastructure and that now with cloud this opens up the mobile market for entrepreneurs to actually not only do more with less because that was the classic cloud store in the web but actually a person who builds an app doesn't have to be a total network guru engineer so that gives them so much more headroom at the scale point for validation meaning the revenue point and market acceptance which as you know dictates venture investment right it's like you know the venture capital is the classic you know it's like the bank you get big money when you don't need it and you can't get money when you need it I don't want to go that hard but you know how it is right so the point is I can get validation and say I can have you know a million users on you know $150,000 in capital or half a million dollar around so I mean that's insane I'm looking through the bright lights right now an entrepreneur I know starting a very interesting company called Swiss stack I'm sure you won't mind if I out him but exactly they eat us these guys haven't raised any money they've closed and deployed a customer already they're still clearly in beta but you can get so much more done in less time and we're seeing it again it's across the board the consumer internet companies have done it for years and it's been a great trend we're seeing the enterprise guys start to figure out good ways to take advantage of it and all the stuff you just outlined on the front end those are the key drivers that we see and for us again we're a small fund so being able to do these small deals being able to invest in companies that we only need half a million dollars for 18 months you know what, fantastic it doesn't exclude you from our perspective it actually makes you more attractive we're just starting a new vertical publication called Bootstrapped Entrepreneurs Only and it's going to be dedicated to all the people who sell finance who can't afford PR, we do it for free we're big fans of the trend it is and it's efficiency right look at Angel List right classic example of efficiency in the capital market so I think Naval has done such an incredibly fantastic job and he's here today which is great I'm seeing which we really appreciate but when you really look at what he's done and what his objectives in it were which are not monetary objectives it's all about building a community I've seen in 15 years in venture I've probably seen 40 different people coming to say we're going to be the marketplace for startups we're going to be the place to go none of them have ever worked these guys figured it out Jason said it earlier I go every day I check that site Jason was saying it's the one thing he checks in the morning he unfriended his mom on Facebook but he checks the whole site they've just done a fantastic job it was why we wanted him here because they're like everything else they're all about capital efficiency they're all about really driving this change Hey, you want to come in and grab a seat? One of my co-organizers of the Node Summit staying behind the scenes he's on a roll so obviously we don't get some valuation numbers what was Joanne's last round of valuation? it was no comment it was good but it was no comment alright well Charles Bieler, great investor young gun in Silicon Valley cornering the market, Node Summit here by just having a great presence congratulations on putting this event together great vision I know you worked hard you guys are doing great with your fund and Node Summit's really an important trend so congratulations thanks and congrats on DevOps Angle it's the first big online publication to really see this as the next wave and jump into it as you know it's a very different type of conversation than what you see on a lot of the sites including some of the stuff you guys are driving now I think it's very timely and so we were thrilled to have you guys want to come here and be part of it and launch it here and I can't think of a better place to do it or a better guy to do it with well we'll continue to talk to you Clint Finley will be heading up Ops Dev and DevOps whatever we're going to call it this guy should call it DevOps but it's kind of the industry term but we're going to cover it like a blanket it does cross into the enterprise eventually DevOps now is a developer market so we do have services Angle which is the pure old school consulting big consulting business like Accenture, HP and EMC and those guys run huge services businesses it's EDS and those guys huge huge business DevOps is really kind of the emerging model so very disruptive again I call this category four hurricane this marketplace we're on node because it's ripping trees down and some building shingles are going off but it's not a category five yet no but it's a four and you know the trees are being knocked down and there's some disruption and the community if you talk to these guys they don't want it to be a category five they're biggest fear I was just having a conversation with one of the core committers to node they do not want node to be overhyped and it's hard to avoid it because it probably is they don't want it to be all about height they want it to be about reality and they would much rather take a slower paced growth effort here I think they love that this is going on but I think to some degree a little nervous that does this expand it to a point where it's ahead of its skis and they're trying to be really careful about that which I applaud because it's a long-term approach you heard Brent and I can there earlier talking about JavaScript and some of the things they're doing now he said these things don't change quickly give it time here's what we're working on here's what we're doing and we're seeing the same thing with node which in the long run will be good for everybody who's starting a company and trying to find a way to be more efficient as they develop things what do you think about the the trending on Twitter I mean I was pretty impressive yesterday that node summit was number three around globally around this so obviously there's an online community we all get what it means to have good IO and HTTP as a first class citizen in terms of the design side of the systems and apps architecture well first I was blown away clearly it shows that one you guys have a ton of people watching it from here there are a lot of people following it just using a hashtag who aren't at the conference itself there are a few things interesting that happened yesterday that got a lot of attention probably the biggest one was Scott Guthrie at corporate VP of servers and tools and Microsoft phenomenally intelligent guy very technical comes on stage with a Mac opens up a Chrome browser and loads a node.js application up into Azure we sent out a tweet from a summit on that it had within 20 minutes we had 45 people retweet it there's a lot of interesting things that are happening here that I think have surprised a lot of people in the dev community Microsoft being one of them and I think that's helped a lot but really it just shows it's an interesting topic it's a fun thing to talk about it cuts across many layers organically as a community it's growing very rapidly it's got some disruption elements in the business side and obviously the big whale vendors like Microsoft, like HP and EMC and these big guys even like SAP will be impacted by this so I love it it's the San Francisco way but it's not just San Francisco it's global we've seen people from New York we saw some Israel we saw some UK we're going to have a UK guy on here it's just booming so learn node check out node summit, pound node summit and I was going to say it says a lot about Mark Lewis chief strategy officer of EMC at the time we decided this conference would be a good idea says a lot that someone in that role at a company like that would be looking at node this early I know Paul Martz big believer in node was trying to be here to speak Steve Herrod came from VMware instead and there's some people who are paying a lot of attention to it quietly observing it but it's not lost on these big guys and to their credit they're speaking about it publicly they're supporting it and I think it bodes well for the overall community as it continues to grow someone just stole my line on Twitter node.js is a gateway drug to MongoDB I wrote node.js is a gateway drug to Hadoop on Monday yeah we've got you stole my line one of the Mongo guys is going to one of the 10 gen guys is going to be here we've talked about with next the future events really talking about some some of the things you plug in around node and Mongo is obviously one of them so it goes back to the community thing it's not just node it's everything around it and so far these guys have all I just hope that it just doesn't get mangled up by the big vendor whales trying to put the brakes on it you know how it always is with the big vendors they want to come in and kind of control it so we're hoping that it continues to be a commercial success at the same time the development side can pace with that so congratulations on all your work Charles Bieler with El Dorado Venture Capital one of many VCs here I saw Insoc Ray from Rembrandt Ventures another great VC friend of Silicon Angles so thank you so much for all your support and I appreciate it so we'll be back in five minutes with more interviews okay we're back live in San Francisco, California here talking about the node summit which is the inaugural event for node.js and the community for developers powered by Joiant which acquired the inventor of node.js Ryan Dahl who in just in the past few short years has really empowered Joiant to drive massive valuation of their company but more importantly power a huge development community we're going to be talking to all the smart developers students, entrepreneurs, executives here in San Francisco where this emerging trend is taking over the web 2.0 performance category in my opinion and we're going to hear about it next up will be Steve Herrod from VMware the little echo there on the can't hear myself okay here we go Steve Herrod from VMware is going to come on Steve's a CUBE alumni been on many times at VMworld and all the events CTO of VMware we just heard from the CTO of the apps group talking about cloud foundry the inventor of cloud foundry and VMware is one of those companies as I mentioned earlier probably along with the YouTube as probably the lowest cost acquisition most value it's produced YouTube was bought by Google for $1.5 billion has become a great story for Google VMware was bought by EMC for $500 million and totally undervalued and is powering earnings for EMC rocket earnings VMware is the new platform for IT and under Palmer's leadership VMware is absolutely taking the industry by storm and obviously they have competitors with Amazon and join it now so it'd be interesting to hear what Steve has to say and other news out there that we broke today that Mark Lewis the head of EMC Ventures steps down as the head of strategy for EMC and head of venture capital for EMC he's going to be pursuing other interests other news Mark Hopkins we're going to try to get Dave Vellante in from Boston via Skype and try to get that cut in here and get his perspective on what he thinks of the EMC announcements but really the big story here is node.js it's a geek fest here all the alpha geeks in San Francisco a lot of emerging companies from New York all over the world coming to San Francisco to talk about node.js really a framework built on top of JavaScript a set of libraries that allows developers to become super developers you take a front end developer who knows JavaScript you give them node.js and they have instant back end skills managing the hard stuff like networks, threads and so on mostly reserved for C, C++ programmers so node.js represents a fundamental shift in the developer community fundamental shift in onboarding new developers new front end developers giving them some expertise in the back end with cloud and the result of all that is more product more applications and better value and I'd like to get Steve Harris perspective on this when he comes on what it means for the technical community especially developers because VMware owns Spring Source and that was a ecosystem of developers around Java so it'd be interesting take to get the VMware perspective around Java versus node.js given the Spring Source acquisition so Steve is a good guy when he's ready we'll come in his Mark Lewis moving on to new bigger better things is Steve right? Are you ready? Okay, that speaker a little bit of echo on the speaker back there okay, hey, how are you? Good to see you again, looking good. Got the good color shirt on got the green for node summit. He was color coded. Here, sit right here. I brought a toy to show you. All right, welcome back to theCUBE. This is a 12th time, a dillianth time on theCUBE. Welcome back. How you been? Good, doing great. We're here getting into the developer ecosystem here with node summit and kind of people like what's going on with node? I talked up some of my friends kind of in the valley not necessarily technical geeks are like what's node? So you have something, a phenomenon here just in three short years node.js has come out of the woodwork obviously powered by cloud and joint for example just exploding with performance improvements for developers kind of turning that front end developer into a more of a computer scientist back end related C threading some complex stuff that most hardcore dudes would go for back end guys as they call it. What's your take on it? Well, it's exciting to be here. Obviously it's taking off very rapidly because it has some nice scalability properties really good way to do multi-threading and it's, I think we talked about this about a year and a half ago. It's really to me part of this broader story of just a, almost a renaissance in the way people are writing applications. That's a world where there's new languages, new services and developers can be more productive than ever. You know, an individual developer can do things you would have never dreamed of an individual doing in the past. We had Derek on from Cloud Foundry. Obviously Cloud Foundry was the conversation of VMworld dominated the Twitter stream and the, you know Clouderati and a lot of the elite tech guys arguing land grab for VM where actually Paul laid out his vision in 2010 at VMworld about the frameworks and spring source was a big story during that VMworld. What's changed within VMworld? If anything, or you guys still on course obviously spring source, Java based community, you got JavaScript, what's going on? How does this relate to that or vice versa? Yeah, at the very top level our overall theory is that this notion of cloud computing is changing absolutely everything and we certainly see it and we're best known for changing the way data centers are built and run but it's also changing the way applications are written and it's changing the way actually all of us consume them with new devices. So the context for VMware is that we really want to help enterprises get from where they are today to the promise that comes from these new frameworks and everything else. So Derek you probably heard this morning talked about Cloud Foundry which is our, we call it our open platform as a service and it's really taking off quite quickly. We only launched it in April of last year and if you track both developers and more importantly right now the community it's really getting a lot of traction as people see this as a great way to write applications. How about the big conversation around path to profitability, commercialization? Developers, they don't really sell out per se but they also have the mind that they want to have a partner that could take them across that bridge to success meaning distribution of their product. What are you seeing in the developer community around that? Obviously they want to have, they don't want to just build something and say it's only on Microsoft, it's only on this. What's your take on that? Well so we certainly aim to, we are an enterprise company for sure. We focus on businesses and helping them consume the new technologies that are very commonplace for consumers and in the web properties. So we end up having a really nice relationship. Our whole goal is to take very innovative technologies like Node and really help accelerate their use in the enterprise by bringing, maybe it's levels of security or even knowledge of things like compliance and things that are kind of boring but very important to companies. And so that's why we end up having a really good relationship with the newer frameworks coming along. I really do think we can accelerate their adoption in a more conservative environment. What does Paul Moritz think about all this? I mean he has hands in the cookie jar when it comes to geeking out on the architecture. Does he know, is it a threat, is it opportunity? I'll see you guys are embracing it in Cloud Foundry. What's the vision on this in terms of disruption in future scenarios? Yeah, Paul's a great guy. I don't know if you ever had him interview. We're trying to get him on theCUBE. I just talked to Brian Cox. He's going to try to send him an email. But Paul, we're ready for you. No, Paul loves, actually Paul showed me his Ruby program he wrote the other day. I couldn't believe our CEO was doing that. But no, he has a really good perspective on this. Obviously from his time at Microsoft, he knows that it's really applications that drive a platform. And in the same way we are seeing this new world of having new applications, we obviously would like them to end up on VMware virtualization systems and VMware based clouds. But to succeed, the most important thing is that the developers like it. So his strategy and our strategy as a whole is very clearly let's first of all make sure we're doing the best thing for developers. And then over time we will make sure that we are the best place to run it or at least one of the best places. And that'll be how we pull together our own strategy for where we do want to make money in this space. But really it has to start with making sure the best way to write applications is on Cloud Foundry. How about the spring source? Any update there? What's their impact to this community? Obviously Java, JavaScript. There's been some debates around what Node.js could do versus other competing approaches. Like what Java can do. Well I think one thing that a number of people here have talked about and we certainly believe are that real big applications headed forward are not, they're polyglot I think is the phrase everyone's using right now. But they're not just one system that's a monolithic app. They tend to be a number of services pulled together. And some of those will be written in Java, some might be written in Node. And I think that's really where things are headed. So we don't see them in any way competitive. In fact the spring group is really focusing on how can it reach out and interact with other languages and services. And both Node and Spring and many other frameworks right now are looking at the best way to consume Redis or MongoDB or a lot of the new application services that are coming together. So we're really focused on making Spring the best way to do Java. We're focused on making Cloud Foundry the best place for Spring as well as for Node. Node.js is early. So it's an emerging young infant language but it's getting massive traction as we talked about. What things do you see that you would do to add to the success of Node in terms of what does it need to work on? Like a toddler growing up. It's still not found its legs yet truly in my opinion. And obviously we're seeing commercial deployments of LinkedIn's using it for some of their mobile apps and we're hearing about some other success stories and joints parading around. But from your perspective, from VMware, say okay this is a good trend, developers like it, hackers are hacking on it, it's good with the cloud. Great, got that. What does it need to work on it? If you could put the Steve Herrod poke in the fire there, what would you add to Node? Well I think it's on a great trajectory and it's a slightly different way of thinking of how you write a program and multithreading is what makes it scalable from the start. I think it is so early that a lot of what you're going to see work on is how do you make it embrace other languages and other services that are out there and make them extremely consumable. And I think that's what every language goes through as it starts to move forward. I think there's a very rich community obviously much more active community than you'd expect for something at this level. So I think the community itself is going to decide what's most important and making sure it stays open and that a lot of people can contribute will be how it gets there. What's your opinion about the entrepreneurs opportunity out there? I'd say I talked to a lot of the Node Jam companies last night at the meetup over there and there's two types of startup categories that I'm seeing. The Me Too collaborative social app. I'm going to do something that looks like everything else with chat and blah, blah, blah. And then kind of real programming going on around white spaces, around solutions in the IT world because the IT world is broad which different from the consumer side is that one hit wonders, only one Twitter is only one Facebook. So you put everything in and those guys invest there. IT's got a lot of white space. So what do you see to kind of share with those entrepreneurs out there that are good white spaces that Node is perfect for? No. Well I think you can't go to any enterprise right now who's not worried for instance about how applications can become mobile. So I go to many companies that have that existing application that works only in the browser or maybe it even has an old Windows type of framework around it. But I do think there's a huge niche for the development tools that can help companies either make existing applications mobile friendly or go directly and create those new mobile applications themselves. So that's a clear one. I think the other one is obviously looking at companies that have a lot more of their systems coming together in one place. So the notion of a easy way to achieve scale is also something that would come in. So the white space is certainly the tools and the language itself but I think also the consulting and really getting out there and helping companies understand how to use it the best. So I was talking with our team a couple of weeks ago and we're talking about Silicon Academy a site we're trying to get off the ground looking for funding so anyone who wants to donate give us some cash.  So what we were discussing is around node.js is that this opens up a range of headroom for a developer who is a design guy or front end guy who knows JavaScript to lower the abstractions within node to do the minimum they need to do with networking and so on in the plumbing. So we see that breadth of opportunity. Do you agree? Do you see that the same way? Do you see this being a path for being more back end-ish? Well as you said obviously the job market as a whole is in very good shape for the technically strong people and if this does enable people who are strong designers and strongly available about JavaScript to think even more about scalable applications and maybe even the mobile aspect of it then certainly their own job prospects will grow. So I think that's a very interesting angle to take on. So the cloud will provide more back end simplicity. I think so. So obviously that back end guys are C++, C guys, when I went to school that's what we learned and there's nothing really else and you had to know threading, you had to deal with CPU bound issues, you have block based things. So can you deconstruct this whole notion of event based programming and non-blocking around node.js and some can say oh it's only non-blocking. That's bad or is it bad? So what's your take on how do you weigh in on that blocking versus non-blocking? Well I haven't been doing too much in that front for a little while but obviously there is a notion that you learn and a lot of the engineers at VMware are very much low level programmers and we deal with threading and core operating system principles all the time and that takes a very specific type of person and it's something that is very critical to the programs working but you can't expect people to understand locking and threading at the level most operating system people do so I do think the most important thing about node is how easy it's made for concurrency to happen to someone who hasn't had to go through and learn all the things about mutexes and race conditions and stuff that you probably don't want to know about. Yeah and a high-end CS degree basically. So you have people who are hackers, younger generation who are doing a lot of rails front end so that question I asked the joint guy is I got a question on Twitter that said what do I, if I'm a young gun learning programming do I start with Node.js or rails? What's your advice? I don't have a strong advice on either. I think the most important thing is to pick a project that is interesting to you and I do think again the notion of polyglot systems is what you're gonna see so I think there are places for a lot of different languages and I personally suggest people have a bit of breadth early on so they at least know what people are talking about when they have the trade-offs. So just kind of find a couple questions and you know you got to roll and do a presentation but you know we mentioned operating systems that's been something and one of the tweets earlier was the word abstraction are being kicked around and you know people in that business know what that means right? And I think Paul Moritz said you know he talked about in 2010 when he laid out the architecture of that hard and top concept. What is the future of the operating system in with cloud? I mean because in cloud that's not just the cloud you've got data centers now impacted so you know we've been riffing on this concept of the modern operating system in the data center whereas everything's decoupled. Also you guys have that kind of framework. What's your view on where are we? Bottom of the second inning? I mean what's happening? I think we're in the fourth inning roughly. I think it's, this is one of my favorite topics I was an operating systems person all my life and the traditional role of an operating system has been to manage hardware and make it abstracted and then to provide APIs and services for applications and what's so interesting right now is that virtualization is now on, you know it's running more than half of all applications and so the notion of applications talking to hardware through the OS is gone. And then things like node and Ruby and other frameworks have really abstracted out the operating system system calls. So since it's getting squished on both sides and it means that the role has to change. So I think that's where there's a huge opportunity and we've already seen a lot of these changes. I think the reason that things like node have taken off is that machines are also powerful enough to really be able to handle a lot of the abstractions that operating systems used to have to be very efficient at doing. So pull them all together and I think the role of the operating system is changing dramatically. When you talk to people here, they don't necessarily know or even care what version of Linux they're running. It's really an interesting time. The web and the net is an operating environment. Certainly the data center is an environment and it needs an operating system, hence the change. So I guess the next question is... I'm Clint Finlay with Silicon Angle. We're here live with theCUBE, which is our live streaming show. We're in San Francisco today at the first Node Summit, which is an event dedicated to the new programming platform called Node.js, it's based on JavaScript. And I'm joined with two leaders from the Node.js community. We have Michael Rogers who organized a previous Node.js event called NodeConf and he's also the CEO of Pouch. And we also have Nuno Job, who wears a lot of hats. He does biz dev for Node.js. He's also has his own startup called Expensecat. And so in addition to all this other stuff these two guys are doing, they've recently started a firm called the NodeFirm. And we were the first to report on it at Silicon Angle, but I'll let you guys talk a little bit about what the NodeFirm is and why you felt it was needed. Sure. So we have this big problem in Node right now where adoption is just too much. Like it's just a rocket ship, right? It's a good problem to have. Like way too many people are using Node all at once. But it means that adoption is like by far outpacing available expertise. And it's just, it's not, you're not going to be able to hire enough people that really know Node well to build any new product nowadays really. You know, there's maybe three or four companies that have a lot of really good leaders from the Node community and there's just not really enough other ones to go around. So what we started to think about was like, could we devise services for companies that have a great product team, have really good developers, they're just not that comfortable with Node yet. They're really good. They've been writing JavaScript forever or they've been writing Ruby forever and they're fantastic developers. But they're really just going to make a lot of early easy mistakes when they're taking on Node because they're going to bring a lot of the baggage from their other languages with them. So we created the NodeFirm so that a bunch of the leaders in the community could sort of sign up and do really sort of small, bite-sized consulting kind of stuff where we don't write code for you and we don't leave it with you without the expertise to really maintain it. What we do instead is we offer some training services like just one day onsite trainings. We'll come in and advise you on any key decisions that you're going to make or if you want to use Node or you think that it's a good fit or it's not a good fit, we'll do code review, architectural overviews, little things like that that can really help you steer you in the right direction when you're sort of new with Node and eventually get your team to the point where they're the experts in Node and you don't even need our services anymore. Since you already have a full-time job, you've got another startup. Everybody at the Node firm, which includes Tim Caswell, who are some of the other names that are? I mean, Isaac Schluter, author of NPM. We've got Chris Williams, who does JSConf and he's also a founder at Safer Aging. Right, so all these guys, I mean, you guys clearly don't need the money. No. You're taking up a lot of extra time. That's easier ways to make money, yeah. So why are you doing it? So I think that we have time because our companies are committed to Node and the success of Node is our personal success. So what we're trying to do is really to capture all this involvement in Node and funnel it in a way that just makes the ecosystem thrive. So our companies are behind us and they want us to do that because it's good for Node. And they understand that the expertise they're lacking, as Michael said. So it's not like we're competing or doing services that other companies would do. We're actually creating something that doesn't exist and there's a real need for it. So our companies are behind us and they see this as an excellent compliment. They actually are pleased that we're doing it. So the support from the community has been really great. Yeah, I mean, and everybody on that list writes open source modules in Node that a lot of people use every day. Most of the people on our list are actually known for writing really big Node modules that the people use a lot. And just like doing that open source work and sort of putting value into the community, we also still have this problem where new developers are coming to it from these companies and we don't have a way to get to them and help them be successful with Node. And so what we really want to do is create a place where we can do.