and we're live. Hey everyone, my name is Anthony Johnson, the founder of 21 Studios and the 21 Convention. I'm here live today on YouTube with Rolo Tamasi of The Rational Mail at therationalmail.com. Author of the stellar hot selling, best selling book series, The Rational Mail. Part one, two and not three. Rolo is also a confirmed speaker for the 21 Convention 2017, 10 year anniversary live event coming up this September in Orlando, Florida. You can get tickets at the21convention.org and his site as well. Rolo, thanks for coming on the show once again. Always, thanks for having me again.  Probably my favorite guest of 2017. Yeah. It's a blast to have you on. Your last podcast too, killed it. It's got like 12 out of some views now, so it's really good for a podcast for us. Mark Baxter is a good friend of mine as well and it seems like every time I go on, it's like that's the most popular one, so I'm glad. Did you just come up with it? I don't like it. Yeah, yeah. I just tweeted actually a new, it looks like he did a new podcast with you. Did that just happen the other day? Which one? Mark Baxter, you put out a tweet today for the new book for him. Or your book on his site. Yeah, he's been nice enough to sort of buff me out for the new book. A lot of people are helping me out with it too. That's one great thing about being in the Manusphere is that you put something new out and everybody pretty much has your back. Oh, totally. They help you promote it too. The other day when you asked me actually on Twitter, I was kind of laughing. I was like, of course, you asked me to do like a blog post about it and I'm thinking like, holy shit, I'm gonna do a lot more than that. Yeah. So, yeah, so speaking of that, you just put out a new book literally three days ago, I think it came out, three, four days ago. Yep, yep. It went live. Yeah, I went live on Wednesday or Thursday. I can't remember. I think Wednesday night. Yeah, Wednesday afternoon.  And later today I'll be sitting down and over tomorrow digging through it and talking into it. And so the name of the book is actually The Rational Male or Volume Three, Positive Masculinity, but the original title was actually gonna, or subtitle was gonna be The Red Pill. Can you open up talking about that a little bit and why you transitioned to Positive Masculinity and stuff? In the introduction part of the book, I go into just sort of my thought process of coming up with the third book. I really set out to create a series of books when I first put the first one out. It was just something that I felt that I needed to do. It's like, I'm not really a professional writer, I guess. I mean, I have other things that keep me occupied, but I felt like I had a book in me, I guess. And so I put that out and I tried to cram as much into it as I possibly could. And just as things went, I had a really positive response to that. And a lot of people have been, they've called me a godfather to Red Pill. They say, you know, you are in the Red Pill and on the subreds, the Reddit subreds. And if you go and you look at the sidebar, my step is the most linked to stuff on that, that particular form. But like I said, I didn't set out to do that. I just kind of put out what I felt like I had in me. And I think I kind of understand how writers feel now. Like if you feel like you have a book in you, it's like, or if there's a book that's not available that you think should be available, we'll write it, you know, and then go put it out. And that's really been my approach for all three of these books. And so right now I sort of consider the first book, like the core kind of understanding or the core rule set, I guess. The fundamentals. Yeah, exactly. And then so everything else is built off of that. So then there's preventive medicine and now there's positive masculinity. And I just felt like I, you know, when I first set out, I noticed that a lot of what the Red Pill as a terminology has become has sort of been appropriated by a lot of different ideologies and different people with different agendas. And... Yeah, I was thinking about that reading through the introduction and obviously the name title or the title change you made to the final one.  Yeah, well, it's like, you know, I see it used in so many different aspects, you know, because people want to say, well, it's just, it's whatever is truth to them. And so then they go and say, well, I've been Red Pilled and he's like, okay, well, what are you really talking about? And it's like, well, I'm all right, or I'm Migtal or I'm, you know, whatever. Yeah. And to me, the Red Pill has always been about intersexual dynamics and that's where it started. And... Yeah, it's important to keep, I think it's really important to keep clarifying is that it started in this sphere, the sphere that you are leading intentionally or unintentionally. Well, the, the Manisphere has sort of evolved into, you know, different aspects of it. And in some ways that's good. In some ways it's kind of like, well, you know, is it really related, is it not related? Because, you know, I'm always of the opinion that the Red Pill needs to be fundamentally amoral, a religious, a political, and it needs to, you know, be based on objective truth and objective, you know, conversations really, you know, testing ideas. It's really, you know, in the book, I described the Red Pill as a praxeology and what that is is it's just sort of, you know, an understanding. So it's like what I call loose science. And... Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, I was reading through the part today. Yeah.  And, you know, now we have a large worldwide consortium of guys. And well, when you say, when you say understanding women too, you mean that like globally throughout your life, not just like specific to pick up seduction and getting women. Well, that's, you know, I, and again, I, in the introduction, I'll say this is, I really feel that the Red Pill from Intersexual Dynamics is concerned. I really feel that it's open source. And I think that everyone, every man's experience really needs to be added to the larger gestalt of the Red Pill.  And so people come together and we sort of see commonalities in women's behavior and female nature. And we come to, you know, connecting dots as I say, but I'm very fond of what I do really is just connecting dots. And a lot of people, you know, a lot of people will tell me like, I'll get, I'll get emails from guys and they'll say, you know what, I feel like I have known this shit all along, but I've never had it spelled out for me. I've never had it articulated for me. And I think if I have a strength, it's in my ability to articulate what guys have, you know, either suspected in the back of their heads or maybe they're thinking about now. And for me, it was just like that too. Like the connecting dots was the, almost immediately what I felt an articulated in my own head reading your book, the first one for the first time back in the summer of last year. And yeah, after, you know, being in the PUA community for so long and approaching like thousands of times, my thinking was like loosely geared in this direction. It's a kind of like purple pill, but then you tightened it up by spelling all this stuff out and articulating it. Yeah, it was obviously, it was life changing for me, like some of the others. I think that there's, I think there's sort of a misconception about the red pill in that it's just a bunch of guys or it's just a bunch of pickup artists trying to figure out how to better get laid.  A lot of bitter men, yes. But I really think that, you know, critics will constantly say that you guys think about sex too much.  I mean, that's all it's really about. And really, it's much more than that. And when you can understand the different, you know, sub aspects of the red pill when it comes to, well, maybe you're involved in a relationship, maybe you're married, maybe you're working with women, maybe there's, you know, I was talking to Mark Baxter about just the larger scope of the red pill when I mean, we just had that incident with that female FBI agent who decided she wanted to run off and go get married. Oh, yeah, I saw that, I saw that.  Well, I mean, that's national security. So if you're just gonna say, oh, it's just the guys that are, you know, interested in just getting laid and trying to find out, you know, how best to tweak their game so that they can get a same night lay. That's not what it's about at all. And I think that's what really scares a lot of, you know, social justice warriors and a lot of people who would otherwise, you know, blue pill guys would like to say that that's all it's about because it's not, it's so much, so much larger. Well, I have an interesting short story about this. I think you'd really be, I don't know about excited to hear, but interested to hear. Recently about maybe a week and a half ago, not that long ago, one of our most popular speakers alumni anyway, James Marshall, he was doing a live Q&A, you know, on Facebook with his audience and stuff like that and his fans. And someone brought up feminism and feminists and how they're critical of PUA sometimes, you know, stuff like that. And he pointed out that he had basically never taken any heat in spite of being very popular. Runs a big YouTube channel, a great company, you know, they're very, they're very well known. And he couldn't really wrap his head around why he hadn't been criticized so sharply unlike other PUA's, unlike the red pill, et cetera, et cetera. And what I immediately thought of what I pointed out to him is that feminists don't see seduction and PUA coaching as fundamentally threatening to the feminine imperative, which he doesn't quite grasp in spite of being, I think, legitimately a very good seducer and a good teacher. So I think to me that highlighted the difference between the red pill and the PUA stuff is that that's not really seen as a huge threat unlike the red pill, unlike the manusphere more broadly because it's addressing fundamentals and it's hitting on everything, not just going out picking up women.  And, you know, I don't get too much flack from feminists altogether, but I think probably one of the reasons for why that is is that we're, I think that, and this should, I should extend this to red pill women or PUA women who like to identify themselves as red pill women. I think that they believe that we are doing their work for them in that where feminism has been defined by myself and Harti or Albrosi as being ultimate unleashing of women's sexuality while maximally restraining men's sexuality. And I think that in- That was a big epiphany for me, by the way.  Because like when we were talking, I think when we talked last time, we talked about open hypochemy and just how it's something that's out in the wild right now and we see commercials, we see media, we see movies built all around this. And it's almost insulting, I think.  And then right when it's time to cash out of the sexual marketplace when we're 29 years old, you chumps are gonna be there and you're gonna love us.  And they're happy to flaunt that in the faces of these guys and they're expected to take it. And, you know, I think that the red pill, we're all we're doing, we're just guys giving these dudes the same message that they're, you know, not maybe not directly, but certainly indirectly getting from feminists and the women pair. What this brings to mind is in the opening of at least the third book, you know, one of the opening pages and as well as maybe others. I've definitely seen you say it before. It's like the matrix quote. I think it's a direct quote pull from the matrix. Why do my eyes hurt? We've never used them before. Never used them before. I use that in every one of my books. Yeah. That was my tag signature when I was a moderator for the social forums. Well, I think that's why- Why do you keep saying that? Well, that was just my tagline from my signature when I was a moderator. Well, what it reminds me of those guys, you know, experiencing this from feminists and from women and all that, they're not quite like they're confronting it, but they don't really know what they're looking at. I think, at least that would have been my case before I found your work. Like I would have had like an inkling or whatever you call it, confronting this stuff, but didn't quite know what to make of it and what the hell is looking at. Right. So I think that's what you're doing. That's really well. You know, and I agonized over putting this into, there's a, I have a post called Betas and Waiting that defines all of this. And yeah, it's one of my more popular posts. And I was really debating on putting it in this third book, but I just, I just didn't have space. You know, I was pushing, you know, close to 400 pages as it was, so. But yeah, I think that's one of my more seminal posts because it outlines exactly what I just said is like, there's these guys who spend their entire lives just in the dark and waiting up until the point where, you know, women are ready for them. You know, I mean, the women will even go so far as to say, well, if we're both single, when you're 30, then we can get married. And it's just like.  It's so insulting. And it's like, I mean, from a red pill, I also go into the red pill lens when I'm in this new book. And, you know, from a red pill perspective and you're looking at this, you're like, why are these guys like seeing this? But, you know, but they're happy to have the play. They're happy to get to that point where there's like, okay, I built myself up and we've been playing by the, you know, the first set of rules and the first set of books.   And then, you know, and I know that the predictable, you know, counter to that is like, well, you know, not all women are like that. Not all women are going to do that. And it's like, well, yeah, but that's so common and it's such a generality right now.  And that's what's happening right now. And I also go into, in the new book, I also go into how that is sort of transitioning into what I call open cockled you. Yeah, you know, let's talk about betas and waiting and that specific post. It makes me think that you have like a special category unbeknownst to you of like posts that are just so abrasive that they attract like all that attention. And I think that's one of them. Oh yeah, so what it reminds me of is that you have a special category of posts. But I wanted to say that, and you tweeted, you retweeted this a little while ago, that doesn't just take the sunglasses off of somebody and show them the world.  And I think that's one of those posts that does that. When you hit on it that deep.  And, but the last post that I put out before the book announcement was. Safety net, right? Yeah, this confidence in the safety net. And guys have told me in the past that because they have this red pill awareness, they feel more confident and they feel like they've got a safety net and they feel like they can actually experiment. And I want to also say that they also feel like they've got a sense of abundance in that if something fucks up with the relationship that they're in that they know they're going to be okay because they have the instruction set or they have like the idea or the information and education to rebuild their lives if they had to or to be a little bit more adventurous even with the women that they feel like they're, you know, even blue pill guys who feel like they're a woman is their dominant authority in their lives.  Here's why your wife is the way she is. And then they have a little bit more fearlessness to go and experiment and to push the envelope a little bit and test things out. And then that leads to more, you know, testing and experimentation and stuff. And again, it comes back to, you know, it not just being all about sex, it's all about experimenting with intersexual dynamics. And sometimes that takes place in, you know, the worst of marriages.  And he's kind of doing some live tweets. And at the same time, I got Goldman, you know, who's on his, you know, his, you know, North American tour right now. And I see all this stuff coming back.  And so it can be, you know, pick up artists and it can be guys who are in a good marriage or a bad marriage, or it can be guys who are divorced and getting back in the game. And it's all, you know, I'm really about the idea that the Red Pill is open source.  Well, Jack Donovan is like, is a key figure there, right? Yeah, he's speaking with us, right? He's going to be at the 21. Damn right, yeah. Yeah, I'm talking with email. We're getting his flight set up and all that, so good to go. Nice. Yeah, so let's shift gears a little bit. At the, right at the outside of the book, obviously I know this, you know, personally and just through talking to you and then Andrew, but you actually asked Andrew, the private man, Andrew Hansen to write the forward to your book. And I think he agreed, but then was unable to due to time when he died. Yeah, I hit him up and I've talked to Andrew on several occasions.  At least in my experience, there's, there are very few people that I have been able to say, you know, bye, adios, you know? And so I talked to him a little bit and I said, hey, you know, if you have the energy and you can do it, I would love for you to, you know, write the intro to the next book. And that was back and I think it was in March. I didn't realize just how aggressive the cancer was back then and he gave no sign whatsoever.  Dude, I was at his house like a week before he died. And the guy was very vibrant and very, you know, alive and very with it. And it was just like within the space of four or five days he's gone. Yep. I actually wanted to comment that, you know, I saw him so close to when he died and that positive, I don't call it a positive mindset, a positive sense of self or sense of life he had was, it was there all the way to the end. And I have no doubt it was terrifying to face death like that. My idea for the book anyways was, you know, getting him to sort of, I don't want to say to eulogize himself, but to sort of just, you know, give himself a memorial so that, you know, from his own words would have been great to, but unfortunately that didn't happen. And so then I took it upon myself to dedicate the book to Andrew, who is the private man was the private man and his blog's still up there. It's if anybody wants to, you know, go have a look at it. And I'm not going to say I agreed with everything he said. I mean, a lot of the stuff he was, he was very enamored by a lot of purple pill stuff too. But I think that what he did and just the way he lived his life was, you know, something to, something to aspire to.   I think he did, I think he did some Skype coaching from time to time, not much, but some. And yeah, I completely agree, man.  Yeah, well, I don't want to, I don't want to give it, I don't want to spoil it for anybody, but the forward of the book is a dedication to Andrew. Yeah, it's powerful. It stood out to me. I mean, it stood out to me not only, you know, it was a good content period, but, you know, knowing him personally too. I think he would have loved it. Yeah, I hope so.  And, you know, which in the, in the community, in the atmosphere, in the red pill, you know, community, I don't think it's any secret that my first book was probably the seminal work and red pill stuff. So, you know, if I put something out there and trust me, this took me a good year and a half to put this thing together for the third book. And then, you know, deciding what to leave in and what to leave out is, it's a tough, it's work. You know, it's definitely a labor of love. I wanted that to, you know, be significant for him. Yeah, can you speak briefly to, I'm looking at your three books right now, I have them to my side, all three even stacked up. I was this morning, I was at Starbucks just looking over your book and going through it, you know, now that I have it, the new one. And it really stuck out to me like, and I watch you on Twitter too, and you tweet every once in a while just about writing, something you follow certain Twitter, you know, Twitter accounts about writing. Yeah.   Yeah, it's like building an event. This is probably the most work I've put into my writing and put into my book, because you know, like when I put out the first book, there's a lot of, I can't speak for other writers because I never really considered myself a writer per se. I have another life, I have another career, I do a lot of different things. These three books I'm looking at say different, buddy. Yeah, well, you know, and that's interesting to me because a lot of this stuff, like when I, I'm kind of a nomad when it comes to my career, I go from being an art director or being a promo guy or being, I wear a lot of different hats in my real life and to add one more to that and say, oh yeah, I'm an author as well. That was an interesting step for me in my life. That's selling fatherhood author. But yeah, well yeah, now I am. And it's great and it's a good feeling to know that I've got not just one, but like three different books out there that they've pretty well received. So, and I don't know if anybody follows Mike Cernovich, but you know, a lot of his stuff where he's talking about, he's got, you know, one really significant book and the other one is sort of just a collection of his blog essays and stuff like that. And he's got a thrill of mine.  I'm just gonna go and I'm gonna do it. And to say, well, I've got something to say and we live in a time right now where we can do that. Because if we're just talking about just 10, maybe even 15 years ago when the self-publishing industry was not even around.  That's not gonna happen. And I'm still very fearful, I should say. If I have a fear about being a writer, it's not about like actually arriving stuff.  This is hate speech. Exactly, it's hate speech. And so therefore they won't carry you. And that's why I always tell guys to, you know, I always say this. I make the least amount of money off of my printed books, but those are the ones that I want people to buy the most because I'm like, shit, I put a lot of time into it and I'm a designer and an artist by trade as it is. And, you know, I want people to have that. So that's, you know, one thing that's flattering to me. And second of all, it's not something you can delete. It's something that you can have and you can share and you can have conversations about. And you know, I'm very upfront about that and all of my books and all the introductions are the afterwards where I say, you know what, please, if you got anything out of this book, pass it on to your friend or your son or your nephew or whoever you think could benefit from this because that's what it's all about. That's really what I think. Like when I say that the Manusphere and Red Pill is open source, it's open source, but it still needs to be something that we all discuss and it needs to be something that we have an engagement with and that we're talking about. Add to and debate. Yeah, and that's why I say, you know, I'm really hoping that if I get on the plane in Las Vegas so I can come out to the Orlando gig, I'm hoping I'll see some dudes on the plane with one of my books out there and I go, okay, that's exactly where I want to be. Or if I go in and I see like around my neighborhood, we have these things called like little libraries. And so like we have these dog walking pads and stuff like that. And I know this is all over the country, but you basically take a book that you have and you like and you put it in there and it's sort of like this little local community neighborhood library. And so, of course, two of my books are in there now. Yeah. You know, and that's the kind of thing that I actually love to see. I like it when guys like send me pictures of my books. Like when they, a lot of them are coming in now because of the new book. I'm very proud to say, I gave your first book, my first copy of your first book to the groom at a wedding as a gift. That's like a hundred bucks in cash. Well, there needs to be that. And unfortunately, right now in this day and age with what we have with feminism and we have with social justice and we have with feminine imperative and feminine primer. We have all of that. It's something you kind of have to keep on the down low. Especially for guys you're really uncertain about it too. That's the kind of engagement. I would love for guy, if there's a purpose for any of my books, it's so a Red Pill guy can hand it off to his blue pill friend and they could have a talk about it. Yep.  Yeah. I've had a habit of buying, I bought probably two dozen of your books so far and passed them out to people. So I've spent quite a bit on just keep buying, I keep giving my own copies out and then I got to buy more for myself. So it's like constantly, almost like hockey bucks at this point. I'm just like flinging them out. Like everybody read them. I like the engagement. If there's a purpose for me as a writer, it's really to spark that conversation. I have my habits. I always keep a notebook around for ideas because I swear to God, man, I'll be one in the morning. I have a habit of for some reason waking up at like one or two in the morning and when you're free of all this distraction and all the shit that you've done the whole day, that's when my clearest ideas really come to me and I'm just sort of connecting dots and maybe I'm just kind of doing it subconsciously in my sleep. But I'll get up at like two in the morning and until I can feel like I can go back to sleep, I'll go on and write about ideas. Or if I'm on a gig or if I'm working somewhere, I'll always keep it with me because otherwise it just exit my brain. Especially if I wake up in the morning, five or six a.m. I'm about to go to the gym. I'll be like half an hour late to the gym because I was writing and I know. But that's one of my habits. But just as an author now, as an author of three books, I find I write the best I feel that my writing is is in the morning. In fact, I make sure that I'm writing my blog post in the morning these days. Well, yeah, I'm definitely not doing any writing in the morning, I'm more of a late night guy. You mentioned actually the purpose a minute ago and that was actually what I wanted to hit on next. So in your third book right after the forward, of course, is an introduction. And you mentioned, in a couple places actually, but you mentioned the purpose of your work. And so you actually then end up listing out a number of examples. I don't wanna give away too much, obviously, spoiler alert. But one of the ones you mentioned, I've seen you discuss before in I think one-on-one, but also in various blog posts you've had, you mentioned the Thanksgiving dinner example along with all that list of examples. You talked to us a little bit about that because that was really fucking, there's a lot of powerful examples there, but that one. The first part of the introduction is really from a re-edited, rewritten version of a post that I have called What's My Problem, or Yeah, What's Your Problem, What's My Problem? And it's basically why I bother to write about what it is that I write about. Rather than just sit on it and know it. Yeah, exactly. And a lot of that came from experiences I've had trying to talk to either friends and family, people that I've done peer counseling with when I was back at my university, part of my psychology, I double majored in psychology and fine art. And when I was doing the psychology part, I did, you know, it's required of me actually to do peer counseling and it just so happened that I was also involved with the Soswa forums at that time. And so we were discussing all this and I kept seeing common themes come out with the guys that I was counseling at that time. And then I sort of started applying that to my own life and just like the experiences that I'd had and where I've talked to, you know, I've literally talked a friend out of suicide because, you know, he thought his girlfriend was the one, his soulmate, you know. He literally couldn't live without her. He couldn't live without her. And that is a very common theme, unfortunately, right now. And we could probably go for a full hour just talking about male suicide and why it's five times the rate of women's suicide. And I really, I could probably write a book about that. You actually have a great quote in your post on BPD and borderline personality disorder that the woman, you'll need a bullet long before she will. Yes, exactly. And well, and that's the guys that are so wrapped up, I mean, deeply wrapped up in blue pill conditioning. They believe that they'll never get anybody better than this one girl. And if they ever lost her, you know, she's the son and the moon and the stars and the skies to him. And if he ever lost her, he would literally die.  And that is, back when I wrote the first book and I started even just blogging at, or not blogging, but just writing for So Swab. You know, that was a real problem that I wanted to help guys avoid because I think it's probably in that post too. I had a friend here in Reno way back in the day when I was, you know, going to school and everything who was a radio DJ. And unfortunately, he was not a guy I could reach and literally blew his brains out because his girlfriend left him. And so that hit me pretty hard. And then the incident that you're talking about right now was when my, and I don't really talk about this too much, but I did talk about it at the man of demand conference, but I have a sister-in-law who was married to a guy who got her pregnant at 19 years old or 18 or 19 years old. And everyone thought, everyone on her side of the family thought he was gonna run.   And he, the right thing, quote unquote.  Never went to college, never did, you know, anything really too much with his life except for support as kids did everything that a guy is supposed to do, right? Loved his wife. He was definitely beta and definitely possessive because his wife, my sister-in-law, she's a looker. She's a hot girl and she's, even to this day, she's still pretty good looking. But I think on some level of consciousness, he really understood that she was above him in SMB and sexual marketing.  And so eventually, she ended up meeting just through their business because they were running just a lodging kind of business thing.  And she decided she was going to divorce him. And within that space of time where she had announced that she was going to divorce him, you know, no one knew anything to the contrary, but he decided to hang himself and ended up killing himself because he literally could not live without this woman.  And it's just this obliviousness and this, you know, this cognitive dissonance. You actually specify out too, though, that like she had plastic surgery done in a very short amount of time. A few of the things like that, I think- Yeah, it was ugly.  And it's back then, it was a very really rough time for me because again, remember, I'm, this is, gosh, this is in 2003. So, so it's quite a while back now. But like right around that time, that's what I'm writing for Soswa, you know? And here I am seeing this happen, you know, in my own family with, you know, I've had it happen with friends. I've had at least three close friends who have committed suicide and are what I call casualties of the feminine part. Yep. And I also, I've got a couple of posts, one's called casualties and then the other one is soldiers, I think it is. I kind of go into how common it is for soldiers to be very, very blue pill. And they're, you know, these are guys who've had, you know, live ammunition shot at them and they're pretty fearless when it comes to combat and they're out in the field and on deployment and stuff.  Well, that's interesting because if I'm not mistaken, from what I understand, I don't know this for certain with statistics and stuff, but military wives supposedly are some of the most, or least loyal, I guess you put it, most highest rates of infidelity, I think. I don't know if there's- It's very difficult for them. I would, I would suggest, yeah, exactly. And then it's like, and the second book I dedicated to soldiers in because there's 22 soldiers per day kill themselves. Wow. Veterans kill themselves. And most of them are men. The vast majority of them are men.  It's something that the Red Pill needs to address. The suicide, you know, I'm all about like, you know, the wounded warriors program and that kind of stuff and making sure that these guys get the help they need. But there is also the part that they don't want to talk about is that these guys are very blue pill. And it doesn't seem that way because guys will be like, well, these guys are alpha, man. They're out there shooting guns at ISIS and stuff like that. And it's like that. You just don't get, you don't understand that that is compartmentalized, you know? That's something that they put in one area of their lives. And then the other side of it, you know, they don't know how to deal with it. And so you've got a guy that comes back from deployment and he's got PTSD. And he's also blue. Well, it's also a lot of guys, many guys have a tendency to personalize or idealize like what alpha is to their own definitions of it.  But he is alpha. But they don't understand that the alpha is a mindset and it's an energy, for lack of a better term, it's an energy and it's something that is, for some guys, they get it naturally and they just go out there and they've never had it conditioned out of them. And then for other guys, it's something that they have to really sort of reclaim and reconsider about themselves.  You know, in a way, the red pill in your work in particular, it's really like learning how to handle dynamite. Yes, yes, I know. If you understand that. Yeah, we talked about that before. It's tough too, because like, again, a lot of the, and I don't want to badmouth anybody from RSD, but a lot of the guys in the pickup artist community are very blue pill. Yeah. They can go out there and they can get a same night lay and they can really work it and they can ape the behaviors and the vocal intonations and everything else and, you know, have the energy level that makes them seem like they're alpha. But then, you know, once they get into a position where they're having to deal with multiple women or they're having to deal with one woman in particular, because they lack that red pill understanding about, you know, what do I do once I have the girl? They get into very, you know, bad and sometimes suicidal, you know, positions for themselves. And I've said those guys are, you know, purple pill at best, but I mean, that's not to say that there aren't some like pill pick-upers. I'm sure that there are, but I think that there's a definite necessity to have an education in the red pill awareness and then be able to apply that to game. You know, I find it interesting being in this community or at least the pickup community for so long and knowing so many dating coaches, like literally hundreds. It's interesting when they find it, the red pill specifically, or your work or not, it's interesting to watch the response to it and like if they get into it, if they lean into it, or if they're curious, if they're instantly, you know, rebellious against it or think it's complete nonsense. One guy I saw actually that I've known from, you know, probably five, six years now, I think five years, five years, he had a very like angry response to it. I could just see like the absolute blue pill conditioning in it, in him, just responding to the red pill on it. It was sad to see, but it's also interesting to watch the, basically the aggression he had towards it, which I hadn't seen many times before. Well, a lot of, you know, I mean, when this goes back to the Matrix movie again, a lot of people aren't ready to be unplugged. They're not ready for, you know, to hear the truths of the red pill. I was telling guys, you know, red pills, unplugging guys is dirty work, man. Especially if a guy's not ready to hear it. Even if they have an understanding of red pill mechanics. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're not such, it's funny. It's like, I have friends, I have personal friends who, like I would never, I would never try to unplug because I know that they're not ready for it. And it's not like, oh, I'll be afraid of losing my friend, which I probably would, but it's- Could you repeat that and cut out for a second? Well, it's like, I've got friends that are not ready to hear, you know, what I have to say when it comes to red, a lot of my personal friends are unaware that I am even writing what I write. And the reason is, you know, I keep them in the dark about it. And I have to because they're not at a point in their lives where they're ready to accept or ready to even listen to what I have to say. And funny because like these guys will say something in general about their wives or about their girlfriend or women in general. And it'll be a full on red pill point. And I'll really wanna say, you know, you know why that is. And I pull myself back because I know that if I go any further in that conversation that they'll think that I'm a misogynist or that, you know, because that's what they've been taught because anything even marginally critical of the feminine always makes a man suspect of being a misogynist. And- Yeah, it's a whole can of worms that many- And that's part of blue pill conditioning is to develop this hyper sensitivity in men to anything that would, you know, degrade women in any possible way. And that comes down to really being critical of them saying, why do women do this? You know, even asking a question, it's not like getting into it to the depth that I go into it. It's like just even asking a question.  The religion and equalism.  Yep.  Exactly, you know.   I don't know if you saw that. Yeah, yeah, I did. And you know what's funny? I really liked Deadpool. I thought that was a great movie, but yeah, exactly.  He's getting pegged on International Women's Day or something like that. I'm like, yeah, you guys don't even understand why this is funny on so many different levels. You know what you were talking about a minute ago with even broaching a subject, even questioning something in the most basic sense. A few weeks ago, probably two days after I saw Goldman actually, he was in Orlando, we hung out for a day. It was pretty awesome. Yeah. I went out to a birthday dinner and a mutual friend, you know, a friend of my, a good friend who, you know, came out that night, I had known him for many years. He had got married and had a kid now and I haven't seen him much since that happened. But we got to talking about marriage just very, you know, I didn't dig into anything too deep. I just wanted to kind of hear what he thought. And I was tweeting about this and I got a lot of retweets. But he basically listed off like, I couldn't even dig into the conversation anymore once he got done talking because like, he hit on like every single point of what you don't want to do in a marriage. Not, not knowing of course doing it, but it was just like an, it was interesting just to see an onslaught of bad ideas that he really believed, like genuinely like believed like all this nonsense. Just for example, like he could gain weight, get fat and the love was unconditional, you know, it would be no problem. Like just, you think it would be common sense that you, you know, you need to stay in shape and be healthy if to be attractive to women. But even that is just drilled out of men in their 20s and 30s. That's because a lot of guys, a lot of guys on that, on that level, they think that is, that's kind of like their game. It's like how they earn the brownie points with their wives by being a better, you know, tool for equalism and being- Better condition. Yeah. Like a good condition I am. Yeah, exactly. And they really, and I've got a dozen posts about this too, is I call that beta game. And- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Every guy that you know, that I know that any guy that you, you could go up to them and you could say, hey, what's the best way to really get with a girl? How do you, how do I get to intimacy with this girl or my wife or whatever? You know, you can ask any dude and they will have some answer for you.  And- Even young deniers will do this. Even if my game exists. Yeah, 10, 20% of them are red pill and they'll tell you the actual truth. But there are guys, every dude you know has game, has some kind of game.   And most of the time it's built on this, you know, the blue pill conditioning that we keep talking about.  And they understand that they have a burden of performance but they don't understand that that burden of performance is colored by the blue pill. Yeah.  And my, all my friends, they're, you know, they're misogynists, but I'm not. And I'm gonna show you why. And they're gonna say, oh, because I believe in equalism, I believe in this and I believe in- I'm definitely considered the most misogynistic of all my friends by far. I'm sure. I'm sure. Female male doesn't matter. Right. I don't really have female friends, but I've sort of too. Well, you know, I'll tell you it's something that's really funny. It's like, this was a few years back, but some of the ladies I was working with, I can remember I was at a lunch or something like that. And my wife had called me up on my cell phone.   I don't know how draconian. That's like a totally, totally domineering. Something like that.  And I'm like, yeah.  And you must be some, you must, she must be completely controlled by yours.  And stuff like that. Meanwhile they're getting wet listening to this. Yeah. Exactly. No, she calls me up because that's the, you know, I'm the authority in the house. I'm the, I'm the primary dude, you know. And, you know, that's completely normal. I don't ask permission to watch football or hockey, you know, on, on my TV set. Like these guys, you know, by like these women's, you know, husbands too. And yeah, so of course, yes. Of course you're, you're instantly, even if it's something as, you know, just as moderate as, as, as a phone call like that to check and see if something is okay is, you know, I mean, what is it? I think there's a, there's a form of sexual, or a sexual, of marriage abuse is defined now as a husband not giving his wife money to go and do whatever she wants. That's a form of spousal abuse right now. And at certain states. It's insidious. Insidious patriarch is what it is. Yeah. You need to get, you need to get out of the time as well. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.  And, you know, I've been married for 21 years. Yep. Oblivious to the difference as it now comes. Yeah, exactly. Shifting gears a little bit. So you have two talks coming up at the 21 convention. One on hypergamy. I guess it's your traditional talk that you've given for. Yeah, first one. Yeah. But the second one is titled positive masculinity just like a book, the subtitle. I'm curious if since finishing the book and putting it out just a few days ago, but finally completing it and it's out, people are reading it. Has finishing the book influenced at all or will it in the coming, you know, two months, exactly 60 days from the time of recording this? Has finishing the book influenced the talk? Oh yeah, of course. And how that'll be grabbed? That was like when I agreed to do this talk with you, in fact, I think I'm the only one doing two talks, but the reason I wanted, I think I even asked you if I could do two was because I wanted to cover this material that I was writing in the book at the time that I agreed to it. So I'm like, this would make a good talk, but you know, I could probably expand on the book a little bit with a permanent video, I guess. So yeah, definitely the plan of it is, you know, I'm gonna give a talk for sure, but I also want it to be kind of a workshop for guys to, because that's really the point of the book is to come up with ideas of their own and reclaiming masculinity in a radical sense or what I call conventional masculinity. And I really want guys to, you know, again, we're talking about the engagement factor of the book. That talk will be certainly a lot less structured than the hypergenic talk, but I really want to dig into some of the core aspects of the book, particularly parenting and then the last section of the book which is positive masculinity. Again, these are not prescriptions, they're not like some, you know, follow the dots, you know, 10 point bull point list or something like that. It's just, I like to say that I give guys tools with which to use and implement their own lives. And so that talk is gonna dig into at least the first and the last chapter of the book so that guys, you know, I wanna definitely give an outline of how masculinity today has been distorted and how it has been claimed by the feminine imperative and a feminine primary social order. In fact, that's really the point of the whole book. Yeah, I love actually how you simplified it out. I'm still at the beginning, but you simplified how it's distorted. Either it's conventional masculinity is either perceived by the blue pill and by the majority of the population as dangerous or it's vague, subjective, ambiguous, doesn't really mean anything.  And that's deliberate too. And that's why I felt like when I was editing and writing the Red Pill Parent part is, I want, guys have always asked me, well, when's the right time to give your book to my son? He's 13 now, should I give it to him? I'm like, no, no, no, no. Wait till he's old enough to actually, keep it in his hands and actually read it. Because it's, I mean, the first book is some heavy fricking reading, man. But I'm trying to give men ideas as to how they can still be a Red Pill Parent. And I want them to read my book, of course, but I think that there's other steps that need to happen before you say, oh, and here's the old Tomasi's Red Pill. Well, I'm happy to say that, I think I can put this out publicly to some minimal extent. There are multiple fathers attending this year to the 21 convention to meet you, specifically, that want to bring their sons who are that age. Yeah, that's what happened at the man-of-demand conference. That's actually what inspired me to write that. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I was floored to see that. I've seen that once before in the convention, but to see it in a multiple times, I was like, damn. Yeah, it's great. And that was something that I was sort of taken aback by, I really didn't expect to see that. But I've got guys who are hitting me up for that. I'm like, well, it's more important as you model these Red Pill aware conventionally masculine traits for your kids to follow, boy or girl. And so that sort of led me to thinking that my point in the book is not so much to defend the Red Pill now. It's really to sort of help guys understand how masculinity has been distorted and how to sort of get back to that conventional masculinity and in an unapologetic way and to be Red Pill and not to have to worry about what we were just talking about, where it's like, I'm the most misogynist guy of all my friends. Well, yeah, the only reason for that is because everyone around you has been conditioned to be super hyper-sensitive to that. Well, really, they're using the word misogynistic as a substitute for masculine. Yeah. I think I'm becoming masculine to the point that I'm no longer bowling at all to the feminine imperative and people are realizing that. And that's what I go into in the book, is that it's about conventional masculinity. And I sort of shy away from the term traditional because a lot of guys, there's a lot of cultures and a lot of ethnicities and a lot of that would say, well, this is traditional masculinity for the Latin culture or something like that, or whatever, you know, the Japanese culture. And that's why I kind of wanted to sort of stay away from that and say, well, there are characteristics of masculinity that are unique to men. And that is what defines masculinity as a whole. Now, in the greater larger scope of society, we see women trying to remove men from the language. That's one part I go into. Where I want to no longer call them firemen, we need to call them firepersons. And it's really, you know, they want to claim again that it is because of they want a sense of gender neutrality when in fact it has nothing to do with gender neutrality, it is removing the man. It's homogenizing it too. Exactly. It doesn't have this blandness. Yeah, and so you've got, that's just one symptom of a larger sickness that is tearing masculinity away from male uniqueness or male ownership of the term. And you firmly believe that there's a war in masculinity question the West, right? Yeah, I would.  And so there's a systematic initiative or it's been going on for a while. I shouldn't call it initiative. It's the systematic removal of masculinity from boys right now. That's why we're, the boys are taught in female, you know, girl methodology. And so we look at boys as just like defective girls because they can't sit straight. And, you know, when you look at the stats for the amount of medication that we give to boys instead of girls when it comes to like ADHD and things like that, that's like, it's staggering. It's shocking. And, you know, we denigrate men.  There's nothing good to be said about that. There's nothing good about men and there's nothing good to be said about masculinity.  But there's this empowerment initiative that goes along what I call femme powerment with girls where they're giving all the special dispensation. And at the same time, they're being taught that they are more powerful and they're more unique and they're more, they have more potential than any boy could ever have. And it transgresses, I guess the transitions from being this message about equality, which is, you know, ostensibly what they want it to be. It's supposed to be about equal feminism about equality. No, it's not. It's about feminine supremacy as well. Yeah, I was just gonna say. And that's what it's come to at this point. And so to initiate that and to keep that, you know, to maintain that position of social dominance, we have to teach guys, we have to either teach them one or two things, like I said, you have to teach them that masculinity is hyper and toxic and it's hurtful and you're a potential rapist and there's, you know, all the super negative things that you can possibly, you know, attach to it or else it's ambiguous. And it comes down to guys saying, well, you know, I'm defining my own masculinity for myself. And then there's the questioning part of it too where it's like you're questioning whether it's legitimate or is it authentic masculinity? Is it not just some mask that you wear because you feel like you have to be macho all the time, right? And just me even making that voice right now or you have to be macho. That's because we've been conditioned to think of it in a ridiculous way. You label that as a machismo, I think you call it in your book, right? Yeah, machismo, yeah. And yeah, and it's very ridiculous because you think of guys who are disco kings in the 70s with, you know, big, you know, cum catcher mustaches and stuff like that.  If guys want to get together and they want to go do stuff together, you're instantly suspected of being gay or they want to find some way to insert the feminine influence into that all men, you know, gathering. What I go into in male space is it's a, again, it's an institutionalized systematic insertion of the feminine into what were conventionally male spaces. And it has no, there's no real practical reason for it other than they want to put overseers in the locker room.  I mean, you see that, I don't, whenever I talk about overseers in the locker room, I instantly think of ESPN right now because ESPN has become so feminized and so just rife with social justice words. We got like some butch lesbian on, I don't know, I forget, I think it's called first take or something like that. Where it's, it's a sports show, you know? And there are always, there's two guys going back and forth, it's Stephen A. Smith and I don't know if I can get the other guys. And then they've got one woman in the middle of it who's sort of giving her perspective and saying, well, I'm here to balance these two guys out. And it has no, she has no function there except for to be an overseer in the locker room.   Well, yeah, the Boy Scouts has been saying that you're trying to get girls in the Boy Scouts. Yeah, but they, yeah, that's okay, but it's not okay to, you know, have it the other way around. Yeah. Well, it's also okay for four-year-old boys to decide their own gender and then get, you know, drugs and stuff. Yeah, well, that's, and that, that's again, that's wanting to remove the masculine. It's gotten to the point where the feminine imperative is so desperate to remove masculinity from the culture that they will literally, you know, convince four-year-old boys, or could try to convince society, I guess, that four-year-old boys and four-year-old girls, I, to a lesser degree, can, you know, choose their own gender identity at that young and age. And to the point where it's like, we're going to give you hormone inhibitors so that you never really go through puberty. Puberty is an option, you know, I think it's on both places, something like that. And it's just- Yeah, and a posting is, I think you can fire it in Canada now. Exactly. And again, yeah, exactly.  That is the degree to which, well, certainly Canadian society, but that's the degree to, you know, larger Western society has. That's how fearful they are that masculinity might be propagated. Well, that's how far they're willing to go too, to legislate, you know, the feminine imperative and force it through the government, right down your throat.  There are so many different ways and so many different levels that, you know, the exit or the erasure of masculinity is apparent. I mean, I was just saying, you know, they want to erase man from all the bylaws in, I forget which college it was, but I mentioned that in the book as well. I was in a state government. Yeah, state governments, yeah, where they want to erase men from the language. And so- Yeah, rewrite all the statute, nuts. You see it, and you see it, you know, erasing masculinity and erasing men from the language, from being able to, you know, decide their own gender from as young as four years old. It's a well-earned man, the erasure like that.  That is, again, removing men from the language, is removing their influence from any kind of discourse. You know, I think I've tweeted a few times about how feminists are saying that science itself is too overtly masculine and it doesn't take into account feminist sensitivities and sensibilities.  It's objective, it's supposed to be objective. Math is way too masculine. But now because, well, the truth, the truth of pretty much, you know, our reality is masculine and they want to remove that, you know? Yeah. Well, you know- Anyway, that's the point of the book, really. Yeah, well, you know, you mentioned women in the locker room and monitoring. So speaking of that, you know, have your wife and daughter read the book yet? I was looking on Amazon. I didn't see the reviews, the five stars yet. So I was, what's going on there? My wife and daughter, it's interesting because there is a, there is actually original content in the book. I wrote a section called Raising Daughters and I talked to my daughter and my wife about that as I was writing it and just sort of bouncing ideas off of them and saying, what is it that I do? What behaviors do you notice about me that you think are a positive influence on your life? Yeah, they have, they've written sections of it. Cool. Like I said, it's just out in the wild right now and it's a pretty heavy read. So my daughter actually, yeah, it's from submission. My daughter's 19 and she actually loves my work. She really, because she has to deal with, because she's on campus. She's at a major university right now and every once in a while I'll go visit her at her dorm or whatever. And in the hallways, it's just nothing but this litany of feminist, pro-female propaganda on every billboard and every meetup is like, what can we do to erase men from society? It's either that or it's like back in January when Hillary lost the election, it was all about the ostensibly. It was the march for freedom but it was really the women's march is what it was. And then on women's day, back in March, I think it was, there's another march. I'm sure there'll be a few more. And I think that if I have imparted any really lasting red pill wisdom into my daughter, it's been that she's very sensitive to seeing that kind of shit on the walls. And she gets into fight fights but she gets into some pretty heated debates with some of the girls that she is either rooming with or that she has to deal with. And she is, you're gonna laugh, she's a journalism major too. So, but she has my red pill sensibilities and so she sees a lot of this through her, I don't see it limited, but her red pill lens. And so I think when it comes with regard to them, it's my wife and my daughter, they're all on board with it. I mean, my wife is, she occasionally reads a blog post that I put down if I say, hey, you should check this out. She'll sit down and she'll read it. And then we'll talk about it a little bit. She's certainly not influencing my red pill observations, but I like to sometimes bounce ideas off of her because she's a very, I don't say traditional, but she's very conventionally feminine woman. My father-in-law is a very, very solid alpha. And she grew up under Texas alpha laws. She was very, her brother also I should say was very alpha too. So there's, I kind of got lucky in that sense that what I write about, I don't have a feminist for a wife. Just it's nice. But I was- I can't imagine that going out. Getting back to your question though, is as of this conversation we're having right now, I have the number one bestselling book in on Amazon for the fatherhood subsection, I guess. They make you decide what section you want to put your book in so people know what they're looking for. But I have the number one bestselling book in fatherhood on Amazon. I have the number two bestselling book for raising boys of all things on Amazon. And I have the number five selling book in family relationships and then fatherhood is the subcategory for that. And when I saw that today, I was like, wow, it didn't really hit me that the red pill parent side of that really is hitting home with people right now. Yeah, I'm curious to see too how that plays out over time as I'm sure you're not one person's noticed that. Oh no, I'm gonna end up, I will, I expect that because of that, because I'm up there and if you look at some of the other titles that are around there, they're almost all of them are written by women or they're written from a very pro feminine, from a guy, but a very blue pill guy perspective.  And when I see that, it makes me proud, but it also kind of sends a chill down my spine, like, oh, shit, you know, this might start a fire up some, some, some. Yeah, well, I have plenty of the books, I think, at the 21 convention this year, so that'll be good. And live arm security for you, so we'll go. Great, did you want to get to any questions? Yeah, yeah, I actually wanted to shift off that. Yeah, you need to go in about 10 minutes. I can stick around for another half hour. Okay, yeah, we got a lot of guys listening in, including Sam Boda has been here since the beginning. Awesome. I think he's still here. Yay. See, let's get into some, I have some pre-written ones and we'll have live ones too, we have a whole bunch. Cool. Here we go. If women never want full disclosure, what are the top three things that a man should never disclose and why? Well, I have actually have a, one of the rules, iron rules of Tomasi is never tell a woman how many women you have actually been with in your past. Always allow that to be a source of passive dread rather than, because I get guys that enough, and I'm guilty of this myself in my past, I get guys who say, well, why can't I tell her that I've slept with X amount of women? First of all, that sort of makes you sound like you're popping off.   Well, that's because men and women are different and they have, there are different prerequisites for each one's sexual strategy. And then there's, you know, different psychologies. Yeah, Black Labelogic talks a lot about this in his book, Genonomics. He goes into the differences between the values and how they progress over time. I think that a lot of beta guys, or actually beta guys who, even red pill guys who are, who believe that that's a selling point for them, they think that that should be part of their game to say, well, I've been with, you know, 20 girls and so on and so on. And then they go into details about, you know, who was the best and who got the best boy job or whatever. And I really don't think that any, first of all, you're putting too much information out there to begin with. Because remember that stoking a woman's imagination is your single best tool in your, you know, red pill pickup artist's tool set. I was thinking that here too, that you're interrupting her imagination process, right? So that's one thing I would not, I would tell guys to not disclose. I would, there's, you know, running down a list here of things. I think just in general, guys need to clam up about some things, particularly when guys who are very beta guys like to spill out their entire life story on the, you know, the first date when they're out there and they expect to go from, because they're so uncomfortable with the flow of a date or the flow of getting to know a woman. I think that they feel that they need to bypass the sexual urgency and the sexual tension phases and they need to get straight to rapport.  Well, let me ask you a very specific tangent question here. How much comfort does a woman need at minimum to sleep with a man? I don't believe that a woman really even needs to be comfortable with a man, to be honest. So zero, basically? You know, I'm sure there's a lot of pickup artists that will disagree with me. I think there needs to be some sort of comfort at least in a trust to the degree that she's not going to get raped and she's not going to get hurt.  It's the old foam can party. I love that.  Yeah, in 10 minutes. And within 10 minutes, you know, same night, late kind of thing because, and I think we've discussed this before. I've had some of my, you know, over listened to some of my poor girls talking about, you know, would you ever sleep with a guy on the first date and their response is, not if I thought he was relationship material. Meaning that they'll be happy to sleep with an alpha guy on the same night if they thought that it was, you know, urgent enough for them to do so.  You know, Rehla, I never told you this, I think, maybe a little bit through Twitter, but my record before finding the red pill for hooking up with the woman, so full sex was like an hour. And since finding the red pill, since finding your work, I've gotten it down a few times to less than 15 minutes from meet the close. Yeah, and that's stone sober, stone sober both times. And that's good too. I think that's rare, but I think that in today, you know, I can only relate back to when I was in my single days and we're talking, you know, 20 plus years ago, but I mean, I can remember times when, and this really, I didn't know it at the time, but it was giving me sort of a red pill education. But I can remember times when I would, this is a true story. I had a, I was playing in bands in the Hollywood, you know, rock scene back in the day. And I had a girl hit me up from one of the flyers for our bands that was out. And I happened to have my phone number on there and she called me. And I didn't know who she was, I didn't, you know, whatever she, but she sounded kind of cute, right? You know, where you get that sort of, she has that kind of vocal intonations where she sounds kind of cute. Cause, you know, this is back in the day, there's no internet, there's no cell phone either. And so- Let's check her Instagram. Yeah, right. Well, I couldn't do that, right? So I said, hey, why don't I meet you at such and such a gig?   And that was one of the experiences that taught me that you don't have to have quite as much comfort as, as, you know, women would like you to believe because sexuality from a woman's perspective is really based on urgency. And it comes dead, once again, and I'll go over this in my talk on hypergamy, I'll say it right this time, is that there's alpha fucks and there's beta bucks.  And she's really, actually she didn't even need to be in that. The guy represents that high of value sexual prospect to her. She's not gonna wait. She's not going to say, oh, he's relationship material. I better put him on. Not her mind-brain is screaming, you know, get his genetic material. And I think a lot of guys really need to understand that, you know, when it comes to short-term sexual breeding potential and long-term provisioning potential, those are two different animals. And I also separate that too. It's like women will love to tell you what they find attractive in a man, but they kind of shy away when they say what's arousing to them in a man. And I think shy away is an understatement. They really don't want to get it out there.  There is a definite distinction that needs to be made between when a woman says she's aroused by something and she's attracted to something.   Yeah. Because they come from two different, they come from two different means. Yeah. Well, it's also what she's saying is probably a lot more heavily mixed with blue pill conditioning than the feelings she experiences. Yeah, because it sounds like something. Yeah, exactly. Because it sounds like she's comfortable. What's attractive? Because that means she is motherhood potential and she's like, well, I need a guy who's funny and a guy who's, you know, confident. And I need, you know, the what? But not overconfident, not too much. Exactly. And so there's, if you go and you look at any woman's dating profile on like plenty of fish or whatever, you know, name the online dating system, you will see a litany or just a list of, a laundry list of attraction cues, attraction potential. Not what makes him arousal. You want to know what wouldn't find arousing? Go look on Tinder. Yeah, dude, I need to show you my Tinder profile. Have I shown it to you, the bio? I don't think so.  I'll send it to you. I'll send it to you after the call.  And it gets me lighted. Women hit me up about it, not every time, but frequently. Just to finish the last of the question, I think one of the other things that guys should not discuss with a woman is game and should not discuss red pill principles with them. And I know sometimes that seems a little counterintuitive, but women want to play the game. They don't want to be told that they are playing the game. Yep. No, I get flack for this frequent name because I, from some of my plates, because I post all this on my Facebook, knowing the consequences that a lot of times I'll lose plates from this, but to me it's more important to post it. Yeah, well, that's, I have a post called Secret of the Red Pill, and I tell guys, I said, if you're gonna discuss red pill principles with a woman, don't pretend that you're gonna get laid or don't use that as part of your game by explaining it to them, because like I said, they like truth, but they don't want full disclosure. And if you explain, if you explicate game and red pill principles to a woman, you're explaining it to them.  Nope, yeah, it's a nuisance to them. Next question, this is an interesting one, and then we'll get to a lot of live ones too. Should a man ever withhold sex? If so, can you give some examples of when a man should do this? I think so. I think that it can be used as a game tactic to withhold sex. And I occasionally see posts about this on game blogs, and certainly Royce has talked about it a few times. I think that it's only effective when the guy is such a high value man that it turns the sexual, it flips the sexual script for her.    I think that it can be an effective tactic, but it's only useful if you are seen as such a high value alpha prospect to a woman that it would make her question her own self-esteem. It's like a demonstration of power, basically. Yeah, it is, because, I mean, what is the single most driving force in most men's lives is sex. Sex.  I mean, people ask me what the masculine imperative is, and I say it's unlimited access to unlimited sexuality. That is men's imperative. And everything else that comes back from that, you know, there's a lot of really good positive things that come out of that, you know, because men will build bridges and pyramids and castles because, you know, they're rechanneling that energy. But when you say to a woman, yes, this is the most important thing or the most, you know, the most driving impulse in my life, and, well, I don't think I really want to do it with you. And she understands that. That will mess with the woman's head. And that's the real principle behind that tactic is to make a woman's second guess. And it's actually also a form of passive dread. I assume you do it, right?  That's overt dread. But if you just say, well, I'm not really feeling it tonight. That's passive dread because you can, you know, then it makes you have something to unravel. Then it makes you ask questions. She also thinks you're probably bangin' another girl. So, or she'll imagine that that's one of the major possibilities. Right, yeah, then it's, yeah, exactly. Because it stokes competition anxiety.  Yeah. Well, Turner, well, especially when, like if it's the first, obviously, if it's the first time you're having sex with a girl and you turn her down, that says one message.  I've seen, I've done it, I did this with Medusa once actually. And I'll never forget the terror I saw in her eyes when I did it. It was, I mean, she's obviously as a range of personality disorders, but I think that definitely is something we'll see again in a woman who's not disordered. Just that total devalidation like that. The other question that I get, it's just funny is I actually feel this question from mostly the guys on the married red pill forum.  Well, again, it only matters if your wife would care if you did. Exactly. And if she's, if that would indicate that there's something wrong or that, maybe you don't find her as attractive as you used to and you're like using it as a form of passive dread, that's one thing, but if she could give a shit whether or not you want to or not, it's not the game technique that we think it is. Yep. Yeah. Let's move on to some live questions. Okay. More on the sex stuff from Leon Kreegan to Rollo.  Hmm. And I know you have a blog post about this too. Yes. One of the only guys in the men's sphere probably. Yeah. Well, I don't shy away from anything. The size issue. I have a blog post called Size Matters and that's probably the best way or the best, if you want a more in depth answer to this question, that's the post you want to read. However, I will say this, is that from an evolutionary psychology perspective, yes, size does matter. We're constantly told particularly now that we live in this, we're supposedly living in this egalitarian equalist, utopia, that it's not the size that matters, it's the motion of the ocean.    But we hang on a second though, wouldn't this also not just be used to play gay guys, but also to mystify or what do you call it? Obstruct, I don't know if I can even say the word. Obfuscate. Obfuscate, the importance of size so that men who are better equipped don't really know it or don't really know how to leverage it. Right. Well, there's two angles to that, right? Well, it really kind of comes back again to what's arousing and what's attractive. Like we were talking about before. If a guy, depending on where a woman is, I guess in her phases of maturity, if she needs the provisioning potential of a guy and he's not quite as arousing as another guy would be, they're gonna start looking for social conventions to make sure that that guy, they're basically feeding that guy's ego so that he doesn't feel like he's impotent or insufficient for her because she needs resources from him. She needs some kind of something that he can provide. Whereas, for instance, what I was just talking about, like back in my rock star 20s, I didn't have two nickels to rub together, but I was getting laid all the time because I had the look, I had a little bit of social proof, I had some free selection, and I also had a beat-up pickup in a one-room studio. You served a specific purpose for them.   Whereas, if you look at, if you listen to women's private conversations, if you look at what their Tinder profiles say, if you look at, you over listen to the conversation of them when they're being candid with their girlfriends. Yes, size does matter. In fact, the reason I know that size matters is because it's the first thing women will use against a guy if they want to deflate him or they want to deflate his ego.   No, or it wasn't even like that directly, it was just like a spursion.  I've seen this with Corvettes, but I don't know. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. But yes, that's funny. But that was the first and very predictable insult that you're gonna get.  You have these gigantic trucks that are just the side of a tractor trailer, right? The first thing people are gonna say is, oh, you must be compensating for something. And well, that is a, the reason for that is because size actually does matter. And if it didn't matter, it wouldn't be an insult. Yeah, you know, I think you might find that's interesting too. I'm not sure if you're aware of this. I was aware of this before I read the size matters post and I don't know if you put it in there. It's something you would have though, I think if you're aware of it. So from what I understand, there are a few studies that have been done on pretty good populations, like, you know, sample size. And apparently women, well, this may not be too surprising to you. They differentiate. So they do, they'll say size matters in these studies somehow, and then the woman will say, basically for long-term provider type, for boyfriend type, they want it like a bit smaller. And if the guy is not for that purpose, they want it bigger. So they'll say, they'll throw out some number, like seven inches or something for the alpha guy. And then for a long-term type, they want five or something like that. They want it like more average.     I've seen that, yeah.  Yeah. And it's like, when you look at that and you look at just, if you look at phallic symbols throughout different cultures and ethnicities, there is something that is important about a large flung, you know, to put it bluntly. I mean, there's, it implies at least subconsciously that there is sexual prowess behind that. So it would make sense. I think that women wanting a provider type would, I don't know, maybe they don't desire it, but maybe they expect it from a, to have a provider type to have a smaller car. Yeah, it was interesting to me because it just looked like it lined up too well. Like it was too good to be true that they would actually want that. And they probably want bigger, but for that guy, they want to have him be less powerful or whatever. And again, don't, you know, I always have to put this caveat out there. It's like whenever I talk about hypergamer, if I talk about like, the other thing is, well, probably the likely question is, do women like tall guys with the answers? Yes, of course they do.    Yep. Yeah, it's about acquiring the knowledge and then doing the best you can with it based on, you know, where you started. I mean, I'll look at some of the guys in RSD and, you know, if they're telling the truth, I mean, I'll look at some of the dudes that I go, oh my God, you know, what girl is going to go out with that guy? Yeah, there's one, there's one fat guy that's notorious for that. I think it was, I think it was, what was it, was it in dataclysm? The stat was that most women, like 80 plus, 85% of women find like most men unattractive. There's very few that physically attracted. Most women find most men unattractive. Okay, Cupid's done studies on this repeatedly using their website. Yeah, that was it. That was dataclysm, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it comes out a lot. Don't let that be a hindrance to you.  Well, Rolo, it's, you know, it's men who have unrealistic, you know, beauty standards for women, not the other way around, so.  We've got one more question here. It's from Idita Kataria. I don't know if that's, I think it's a guy. Hi, Rolo, I'm so excited to read about your new book. My question is to all the fathers, is there any way we can prevent bad social conditioning or lessen it with your children? He says he's 21, not married, but I'm guessing the future, he wants a kid. Yes, there is. And then I go into pretty good detail about in the first part of the new book. Like I said, I don't give prescriptions, but as close as I come to giving prescriptions, they're in that book. I actually have about a 31 or 32 bullet point list of things to be aware of for, or things you can institute in your relationship with your son in the book. And I have to give a hat tip to some of the guys on the red pill Reddit form for helping me out with that. But yes, there is. And what I think probably the most important thing for guys who are fathers or who want to become fathers need to be aware of. First of all, you need to be red pill aware and you need to be unplugged and you need to have instituted and internalized that awareness in your life so that it is second nature to you. That is the most important thing I think that red pill fathers need to understand because very similar- So leading by example, please. Yeah, exactly, well, lead by example, but you have to be that example before you can lead it. So like I tell guys, like if you decide you want to get into a long-term relationship with a woman, the frame that you enter into that relationship with is going to be the one that sets the tone for that relationship, for the better part of that relationship unless you really completely backslide into the red pill. Yeah. If you never were the guy that you sold yourself as, that's going to be bad for you. But the same principle applies for children too, for kids. It's like, you need to have that solid frame before you even have kids. And so the frame that you enter into with your children as an authoritative parent needs to be set in stone before you, I would say before you even have it, but like a lot of guys come to the red pill while they are married and they are awakened while married. And they suddenly realize that the red pill is true and they understand feminine nature, but they're so far gone with their kids that they don't know what to do about it. I give you some ideas in the third book about that as well. But so that being said, let's just say for sake of argument, you are a red pill and you do have a good solid frame. You need to be aware of how the feminine comparative and in this case, I call it the village. Remember how they, I think it's Hillary Clinton or somebody else was saying that it takes a village to raise a child. Oh, it was a CNN anchor, I think that did. Yeah, it takes a village to raise a child. Well, I think the village in this case is the feminine imperative and the blue pill. And so if you are not going to be raising your kid or if you don't instill red pill awareness or parent from a red pill aware perspective, the village will definitely be happy to parent for you. And that's when we see, like we were just talking about earlier, that's when we see sons being taught to gender load, meaning that they hate being male because it's better to be female and we need to transition into being, if we're not going to transition into being a binary girl, then we need to make ourselves more acceptable and more accommodating for the feminine and we need to be more supportive The gender loathing is particularly insidious, man.  It is. And to see that. I can imagine having a kid do that. He's got it. I've never had any love for Mark Manson and a lot of people wonder why I don't because he put out his book Models. Yeah. Gosh, I don't know, back in 2011 or something like that. You tracked women through honesty. Yeah. Just be honest, bro. It's really basically just be yourself game. And I took him to task for vulnerability because he seems to think that that's a selling pointer that just a default sense of vulnerability for a man. He buys into the idea that vulnerability is strength and it is not strength. Yeah, this is popular in the PWA field. It is. It is and that goes back to vulnerability but the thing is the only reason that he understands that the reason he thinks that vulnerability is strength is because that is what boys are taught from a very early age that they need to be more in touch with their emotions. They need to be more expressive. They need to be more sensitive, supportive of the female side of them. I have a real big problem with Carl Schoen in that sense. And a lot of people take me to task for that but I have no love for Mark Manson. I have no love for Carl Schoen but the reason that you get things like that and Mark just had a recent post called The Problem with Men which is just this blue pill. Right out of the fade. And of course he's doing this right after he's gotten married. What a coincidence. Yeah, just like Tucker Maxx his message changes. And anybody who thinks I'm being unfair to Mark I just go read that one and then read the, he has one called The Problem with Men and Something About Feminism, I can't, they're like some of his most recent posts. And then you will understand exactly the problem that I have with him. But I think that getting back to the question again is I think that red pill fathers need to be aware of that influence. That's how Mark Manson gets made. And that's how blue pill guy gets made and that's how guys who put guns to their heads because they think that their girl is their soul mate. That's how those guys get made. They get...  Exactly. Those are the guys who at five years old were taught to gender loathe and to taught to pedestalize not just a woman but women in general. And I talk about that a little bit in the book too is that guys, we always in the community we always tell guys you need to take that woman off the pedestal. The reason you have oneitis is because she's on the pedestal. It's not just that woman, it's women in general. It's like you've been taught to always put women on top of that pedestal. And you're... I say this in the parenting section too, boys are taught to not make themselves their own mental point of origin. They are taught to make women their mental point of origin. They're taught to sacrifice. They're taught to destroy themselves basically. Exactly. And we've already got that impulse in us naturally anyways is to be disposable, to be expendable. We already have that as a natural impulse for us to be altruistic as it is. But the feminine imperative takes that and then applies it to women themselves. And then thus we have 80%, 90% of betas who are pedestalizing woman kind and not just a particular woman. Not their mothers, not their oneitis girlfriend but just women in general. And I would suggest that guys need to take that woman kind off of the pedestal and put themselves on the pedestal and to make themselves their own mental point of origin because from the time they were five years old they were taught not to do that. Well spoken. I wanna wrap up with two simple questions. Okay. Number one, it's been on my mind for a little while. Do you think it's a worthwhile goal to make the majority of the population over the coming decades red pill aware? As of right now, you mentioned earlier percentages. It's no more than 10 to 20% of the population is red pill aware in any sense. So is it worthwhile to shift that? Well, obviously if I'm writing about it I think it's a worthwhile goal. I don't think that that's ever gonna happen though to be honest with you. Okay. I would love for more men to become more red pill aware to save their own lives and to live better lives. I have like that we were just discussing that one post about confidence in the safety net. And in that post, I just sort of petitioned some guys so I could have some testimonials put on the back of my book. Yes, I would. What has the red pill done for you? And how has it improved your life or maybe hasn't improved your life? Well, how has it changed your life? And I've got over a thousand comments on that one post from guys that might be their first time posting. They're lurking there.   You brought me back from the break of suicide. So even if the majority of guys don't become pickup artists and use game or whatever or they aren't doing anything with it per se just to have them red pill aware enough that it changes their life for the better or saves their life from suicide or whatever. That to me is a worthwhile goal. Like I said in the introduction that we were just talking about, why do I bother? Well, if there's a reason why I bother, it's the main reason is to save guys' lives to help them, provide them with information and actionable education to change their lives with. I think I'm succeeding at that so far. No, totally, totally. Can you mean that one man at a time, too, on an individual level? Yes, and that's the other thing. It's like I'm only one guy and I can only write one book at a time. That's one of the reasons, like I say, engagement with my writing and helping guys share. I'm always happy to say or happy to read when guys tell me that they passed their book onto somebody who really needed it. That's great because that's the only way that it works. I am of the opinion and everybody knows this about me that I'm a bottom-up approach to changing men's lives. I know the MRAs and a lot of other people would like to take the top-down approach where they're gonna go change legislation and there's something to be said about that, but it's not gonna happen for them unless you can change men on an individual level to actually initiate that kind of social change. And I really think that, like I said earlier, unplugging guys is like triage. You have to save the ones you can and read last rites to the dying and then move on to the next guy. And hopefully you've instilled something in a guy. There's guys that I have talked to who I, like I was saying before, will never become red pill aware, or the question is that they'll never leave their blue pill idealism, but because I talked to them and because I made them red pill aware, they see it going on around them all the time.  I say, hey, women are really like this.  And then like two weeks later, they see in their lives exactly what I just said. Yep, yep. Okay, final question then will be, since I last spoke to you on this podcast, we've added four speakers to the convention, including Alan Roger Curry, the family alpha, and Ivan Throne, I think it's nice to say his last name. And more recently, Joe Navarro, former FBI agent. The first three in particular though, you were very well versed with. Yeah, I think I was the one to suggest the day they come on. Yeah, I think Alan Roger Curry was gonna happen either way at some point. He'd felt the convention for a long time apparently. But the other two were very much recommended by, all of them recommended by him. Yeah, I think that's gonna be, I'm really looking for, I mean, I'm looking forward to meeting all these guys, of course, but I think with a new boot out, I'm really looking forward to meeting family alpha because some of his writing has actually inspired a few of the ideas that were in the Red Bull Parenting section of the third book. Cool. Yeah. And yes, and I have a list of credits that are in the back. Like I have some acknowledgments that are in the back of the book and he's one of them. And I believe, and I put the 21 convention on there as well. Oh, cool. Badass. So, yeah, immortalized everybody, right? Yep.  I look forward to meeting you in just about two months. Always a good talk. Yep. So guys, thanks for tuning in live. Appreciate it very much. You watched the recording. Thanks for that too. Smash the like button, leave a comment and make sure you visit Rollo at the rationalmail.com. Also, you can meet him live at the 21 convention 2017 10 year anniversary coming up this September in Florida. You can get tickets on his website, therationalmail.com, there's a link. Also directly at the 21 convention.org and a link underneath this video. And this is the rollout. Thanks a lot, man. And the price of that's going up pretty soon, right? Because it's the end of the month. Yeah, that's right. Man, there's just so much on my mind. Yeah, so as of the recording, it's alive right now. The price goes up in two days. So the last chance to save 300 bucks on your ticket is right now, that ends on August 1st.  So it's on August 31st. And I have a direct banner linked to that from my site too. Yep, absolutely, yep. Yeah, and running out of tickets too. We have about 32 left, I think. All right. I got to check. So we might sell out, which would be pretty badass. Great. Yes, sir. Oh, thanks a lot. I'm going to hit the end of the stop. Yeah, all right, see you guys. See ya. Oh, you can stay on. I will, yeah. Okay.