Hi everyone. I have a great guest for you today. It is one half of the serfs comedian Lance He's a twitch streamer and a youtuber and I'm here to pick his brain about you know a variety of topics So Lance, thank you so much for coming on the program Thank you very much for having me the first person to ever introduce me as a comedian.   You know what I mean, but no, I think that genuinely your content is great I think it's awesome Okay, so I feel like most of my audience has got to know by now about your channel and what you guys do But if they don't Tell them what you're all about Okay, so we do I guess political comedy which is kind of a misnomer I suppose We're kind of like I would equate us to be mimes in the political arena like we're pretty low on on the totem pole But we try to do our best what we kind of did was like we would do long form documentaries on a whole bunch of different Right-wing ghouls. So like, you know, you're Dave Rubin's your Stefan Malinows your Jordan Peterson's I happen to be Canadian So I guess part of our ethos is we're trying to undo the damage that so many Canadians have wrought upon America Uh, and again, whether it's, you know, Stephen Crowder, Lauren Southern Man, all of them Stefan Malinow We're not sending our best Gavin McInnes, uh, you know, I I'm already I'm I'm I'm almost about to apologize But, uh, I guess we got more prominent We had about like 5 000 subscribers and our youtube channel got brigade it after we did a video on PewDiePie And we got false flagged for what is it malicious scams and something like that Nothing that we were doing our channel got taken down and then there was this really Amazing online push to resurrect our channel from the grave And including from big names like I'd never thought would interact with me like your sam cedars or your h-bomber guy Like they were all coming out of the woodwork and we actually got uh, I have it right here I didn't prepare this prop. It's not like I always have it on hand or something. So this is not a bit But um, I got it framed. This is an actual apology from from the youtube's because you know, they they never apologize Like they're pretty renowned for never do but this is the actual tweet apology they made so I'm Wow, I'm pretty I'm pretty proud of this. This is uh, this is a cherished item That is a frame worthy item like they never take responsibility and I will say I'm embarrassed to admit that I actually didn't Find out about your guys's channel until you were taken down by youtube And then that's really fine once once I heard about it Then you know, I also was was upset by this and then once it came back I kind of like binged some of your guys's content and it's great But since you're here I wanted to get your take on something because we kind of have breaking news Like it won't be breaking by the time that most people see this but um, it is breaking as of now So we heard that friend of the show day ruben My brain is still in recovery mode from taking in so many high level important ideas Has made an endorsement. He will be voting for donald trump in november Now, I know you're gonna be shocked by this. You've been following day ruben I've been following day ruben. He was such a progressive before He was a classical liberal and um, he's voting for donald trump. So any thoughts on this? Uh, I for one um, uh, I don't know floored I I did not expect this, you know I mean after day ruben has put so much effort into cultivating this, you know deeply refined Left-wing progressive technique. Uh, I guess it made sense after a while I mean so many copies of his book got burnt and there's only so many book burnings you can attend before You're like there's something wrong with the radical left.  Like we we understand what's happening now Like he's he's decidedly making his money because that's where it's it's paying him the best Um, I I do find it kind of strange with day ruben though that He's got an enormous amount of hypocrisy right now. I mean, yeah, not like more than usual But he seems to be on the the side of like It's the left that's always doing the the id poll and it's the left that has to always talk about identity I have yet to see him in the last like maybe five or six interviews where he doesn't talk about being gay Like it's always like, you know, and me a gay man, you know, and they they don't they don't make me a cake And I'm fine with that. I'm totally fine.  I mean, it's just it's laughable He's a clown and I will say that for the people who are thinking well, this, you know Gryft has reached its logical conclusion. He's not going to go further I'm calling it now in like a year or two The Gryft will go either even further depending on like where the conservative movement goes And he may go full evangelical to where he like announces that he's no longer homosexual and we meet his new girlfriend Alice Like this is where it's heading She's helped me so much. She cured me. Um, he he's actually, uh, what was I going to say? He's actually already evangelical. You're you're halfway, right? Like he's already pronounced his atheism. He's not doing that anymore Yeah, so yeah, that's true. It was a matter of time. Yeah. Okay. I need to I need to say cut up Yeah, yeah 2024 for sure. I need to say cut up on my Dave Rubin news I get most of my Dave Rubin news from like people on twitter running Randomly shitting on him, but also from Michael Brooks and your show as well because I think you guys you really keep me in the loop Um, and you provide me with content where if he says something like just stupider than usual, then it's like Okay, I gotta jump in. I mean it's easy because it's like this is the low-hanging fruit But it's shocking that so many people fall for the Gryft It's infuriating to me that someone like him has over a million subscribers But like lefties are just scraping by you know what? I mean like because the algorithm buries our content So it's it's a little bit of salt to be honest, but at the same time I mean, you notice that a lot lately like the humanist report. Yeah, totally. So I just looked and over the last 28 days Um a percent of overall searches have been like suggested videos, which used to be like the majority Um, and you know part of it is sure maybe it's because the election is over and people kind of like tune out of politics I don't necessarily blame them So I'm not removing my own culpability here, but it's definitely a change to the algorithm because I mean if you look at new channels Like Christo Avalis for example a great canadian you guys sent a phenomenal one there Like he should be at 100,000 by now, you know and four years ago had he been making the same type of content I think that he would be past, you know 100,000 people like David Dole would be past 500,000 So it's definitely it's it's frustrating to see the way that youtube is Suppressing these types of news channels and and like if you aren't really sure what I'm talking about So I'm assuming that people who are watching this consume mostly indie media and left-wing channels But if you look in your recommended tab to the left, you know, you're gonna see msnbc Fox news more often than not now and that's really, you know, youtube prioritizing who they deem as you know authoritative sources and once they kind of made that shift it hurt all of left-wing news channels Um, and you know, there are some who are still able to thrive We kind of have these phases at least on my channel where we just see like 10,000 new subs in like a couple of weeks And then it goes back down to like zero on average Um, but you know, it's it's just a lot more difficult now It's harder for the up-and-comers And it's more difficult for people who have an audience already to grow that audience So, you know, when you see people like Dave Rubin and right-wingers thrive the alt-right in particular You know people like sargon of a cod it is it irritates me like it pisses me off You know, because there's there's so much going on that happens to the left that nobody talks about I think there's like there is one thing to be said about the fact that the left especially what is so called Quote-unquote bread tube was really concerned with doing deeply research documentaries, right? Like that's what we used to do as well And like I I still love it like the long-form documentary, but it's a very long process, right? Like it's it's obviously like we we want to bring the the biggest facts to the plate Like I know the left gets accused of feelings over facts But like if you look at the amount of work that goes into an h-bomber guy or like a philosophy tube video And these really long-form ones, right? Like it's it's endless amounts of citations and sources and stuff like that And one month like one upload a month does not compare to someone like sargon of a cad Who and and tim pool actually was one of the ones who really weaponized this They would film just the two-hour stream where tim pool is allowed to speak about anything And I do mean anything. I don't know if you watch his live shows like they are they are Oh, they are performance art of the highest level He's it's him and his partner weed lord and the two of them are there and they they can just talk about Like I've never seen a more unhinged Uncohesive line of thought come out of a human than a two-hour like tim pool podcast like the the topic could start out talking about hey Donald trump is thinking about building the wall within maybe 30 seconds They'll be talking about Chinese viruses and then 15 seconds later the moon and and like And it all seems like as if neither of them are like, I don't know at all appalled What is happening or even taking it back like they it's a very good one-two combination But anyways my point of all this being because I'm starting to do what I'm accusing him of Is that they will take this two-hour broadcast and then clip it into four uploads for the day So there'll be four tin pool uploads that day and that'll just game the algorithm Like no one's business because they're gonna have very inflammatory thumbnails and highlights, right? Like Obama is secretly a socialist confirmed, right? And then the next one will be, you know Alex Jones proven right about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez thumbnails pictures red text and that's enough for people to be like, okay I guess I'll try to click on it enough people start doing that the algorithm starts to feed into it and then, you know It gets to the point now where I can watch one Jordan Peterson video And the entire right side of my bar is going to be nothing but like everything from Nick Fuentes to Jared Taylor to Stefan Molyneux for well not Stefan Molyneux anymore. Uh, but yeah, that that was the way Yeah, and that kind of gets into a conversation That I wanted to have with you because I think that you are basically an expert on the field of the alt-right and this pipeline Because it's it's really prevalent and more so than people think So Steven Molyneux or Stefan Molyneux I do have my official certificate right here The school of the school of old rhetoric That's great. That's great. Um, so I wasn't it I think it was last week or the week before where Stefan Molyneux was banned from youtube He was also banned from twitter subsequently as well And I wanted to get your take on deep platforming because for me I kind of feel like my position on this has been almost a 180 like at first I was very I wasn't against deep platforming unequivocally But I was very touchy on the subject because the way that youtube, you know, uses their algorithm It almost never hits the intended targets, right? So like the first wave of demonetization led to lgbtq plus channels be demonetized And that was really, you know, that scared me just because as a gay person like when I was coming out I watched so many coming out videos and to think that that type of content would be discouraged That was like genuinely harmful to me So, you know, it made me kind of do a double take about the intended result of deep platforming But at the same time I've evolved to the point where um Just because youtube is stupid and incompetent doesn't necessarily mean that they shouldn't follow their own terms and conditions with regard to hate speech Hate speech and on top of that, you know, the left Functionally over the course of the last couple of years as we've kind of alluded to We've been deep platforms in a way like i'm not going to claim that we've been fully deep platformed But we've been suppressed by this algorithm So I I don't necessarily feel the need to defend the right on, you know, the basis of Freeze peach when one they don't ever defend us and two we're already kind of the ones being deplatforming Being deplatformed. So if i'm going to go to bat for anyone, I want it to be us So I wanted to get your take on this and the deplatforming of stefan malinio because if anyone deserves to be deplatformed I mean, I think it'd be a white supremacist like him who's explicitly racist And Richard Spencer as well, I think was right right second time Well, I mean the third time he's he pops up and same with nick fuentes nick fuentes got taken down I think like Maybe a month and a half ago and then he pops back up in these news kind of pseudo channels where you're like well That's clearly fuentes again trying to pop back up on it. Um In my opinion, honestly, I think that My I my guiding star on this is kind of like I try to keep it at the levels of what we deem to be hate speech within the country So, um, I am completely for uh, and this is I'm going to say this Like unironically the marketplace of ideas, right like the whole Dave Rubin philosophy Like, you know, we should have the free marketplace of ideas where the dial get turned up to 11 And like I actually I like that Well, I like that idea that we should we should allow people with with opposing views to me, you know to to be on the platforms I'm totally fine with that and I stop at is it going to be like direct targeted harassment So for someone like alex jones because he's kind of the classic example, right alex jones is actively targeting The parents of families who died in sandy hook and he did it to the point that the parents were getting harassed To such a degree that one of the fathers committed suicide That is a to me a very clear cut and dry example if I if I owned one of these tech companies Cut him out, right? He's he's causing direct harm to individuals, you know Where it becomes a bit of a gray area is what if you have someone on there say like a Ben Shapiro, for example Who intentionally misgenders people because he doesn't feel that it's something that's wrong Whereas you can make a very strong argument in my mind that intentionally misgendering members of the trans community Can contribute to an atmosphere that You know is explainable and the really high rates of suicide, you know It's because of their vilification as a whole in society So if we have a person on there who's constantly saying like you're not a she or a he right and this is just the way that everyone should There isn't a danger to that as well Is it targeted though? Is it towards a specific individual or or doxing, you know That would be another thing that I would I would say like you should have a zero tolerance policy for those kind of things I think ultimately if i'm being totally intellectually honest I don't think the left is intentionally suppressed by youtube Just like I don't think the right is intentionally censored by twitter Unlike what tim pool likes to say I don't think that's the case I think all these tech companies follow one guiding principle and that's money Like that's that's that's ultimately what they care about the algorithm is looking to what can keep people and their eyes on Content for as long as possible and the right wing just had a very big head start against the left Because the left wasn't using youtube as this kind of like megaphone, right? They were fine with all the other forms of social media that they were dominating Meanwhile, the the right wingers were cultivating this really really powerful force on youtube until they became a force to be reckoned with I remember Paul Joseph Watson was one of the first people to say like, you know We're absolutely dominating this platform and he wasn't wrong and now it's to a point where again If you if you search one or two videos Boom it pops up all over right you have that really thing And you're also right about the fact that I think just news in general Especially because you talk about mainstream news, right? Like you report on mainstream stories report on june biden stuff like that So you are getting suppressed by very safe profitable Corporations like your ms mbc's or cnn That's just easy for them to put up there and to you know promote because they know they don't have to worry about it Whereas, you know, maybe maybe mike might say something that is a little bit Controversial right you might make a video montage about june biden Or you might make one about how alexandia or casio cortez is not a communist devil You know, like she's actually like pretty reasonable things like that that might not be as safe as just ms mbc doing what they always do At least in my opinion Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely right and I am glad that you brought that up about you know, this not being intentional This is just about money. Um, I think that the left if they were able to Draw in the money in terms of like ad revenue that the right does then maybe the algorithm would ease up But this isn't something that you know, I don't believe that there's like a bunch of YouTube executives like let's target the left. Whoa, like it's totally just you know, they make great Right. Oh, totally. Totally, you know, they make changes to the algorithm And they make these changes Exclusively on the basis of what will increase their profits, you know maximize revenue So it's not anything that's nefarious It's just something that we're dealing with and I'm not even going to suggest that this is a permanent thing Um, you know, maybe it's just now they change the algorithm all the time And and you can tell when they change the algorithm because you'll be like riding high And like I'll put out videos like like 50 000 views, you know Every single day and then all of a sudden just falls off a cliff Then I realize they change the algorithm and I think that this is the consensus that everyone Has acknowledged that these are due to Really quiet changes to the algorithm. They don't necessarily let us know about all of these changes We just kind of have to roll with the punches. Um, but yeah, it's a political agenda to them demonetizing lgbtq content though Like there's there's no question about that, right? And that was the big reason that I left youtube to stream on twitch instead because uh, I had interviewed a non-binary Individual and I noticed that when right after I put their interview up on the the site instantly demonetized and also It was demonetized as I was broadcasting it and the thing I forget what the pop-up was but it was something along the lines of like, you know The controversial content or something and afterwards it was like it's happening again and again It's happening when I interviewed a lesbian it happened shortly thereafter when I interviewed another non-binary individual And so I was like there's a there's a pattern here and and clearly they think that these topics are controversial Which is astounding because youtube takes such a big corporate stance during pride months, right? Yeah, they're really really big on like our logos or the rainbow and we care about this and we're gonna highlight all these You know various different actors and stuff like that Yeah, yeah, you're right about that and I will say though There is a good sign because anytime that I've put up anything with lgbtq or trans in the tags Like I just expect that's going to be demonetized And I think a lot of us have that expectation But we kind of just roll with the punches because we don't necessarily base what we're going to put out on what will Or won't be demonetized, but I think it was like last summer. I put out a video that was very explicitly like You know trans rights. It was about transgender rights. I can't remember the particular topic I think it was maybe like a trump thing that he did With regard to trans rights and it didn't get demonetized And so I think I even tweeted about that. I'll try to find the tweet to put it on screen I can't remember specifically and it was so shocking. It was like, oh, well, maybe this is a change If this is up and it's not getting demonetized Maybe they're reversing that policy But then again, I put up, you know a video on lgbtq rights a month later and it does get hit So it's it's tough, you know, for me. I don't necessarily care about the money aspect I think a lot of creators acknowledge that Demonetization is just something that we deal that we deal with now But we have patreon to supplement that so it's not the biggest issue What really sucks is the fact that when you get limited ads That also means you get limited reach in terms of like who's going to see your video less recommendations Um, so it's kind of like this snowball effect where less potential People who would like your content who maybe would be a patron They don't get to see that so it does suck and I hope that it does change We're completely hopeless, you know in terms of like what we can do We're just up to the whims of youtube unless there's a sizable enough competitor that comes along But hey, you know, we do what we can Um, so I wanted to I wanted to ask you because um, this is kind of a spicy topic And we'll try to sanitize the more controversial components, but I think it's a discussion That's interesting and I haven't commented on this. I'm not sure if you have either But Nathan j. Robinson of current affairs. He posted an article Two articles. This is spicy. It is So the first article that he posted was isn't right wing populism just fascism and he kind of directly takes a shot At rising on the hill Over a book that I actually have Oh, okay. How is it? And so I haven't read it yet. Um, I I bought it because I really like crystal ball I think she's sharp But part of the reason why I bought this is because apparently there's an explanation of what the new right is now My understanding maybe this is us too simplistic is that right wing populism isn't a thing Like I have never Thought of populism in terms of right wing or left wing. It's just whatever is popular Mostly economic policy, right? Um, so I don't know what right wing populism means to me I always thought if you're right wing populist that's usually you're just the fascist So I I was hoping to kind of get an explanation and I haven't read it yet So maybe sauger goes on to explain what he means by the new right and right wing populism But Nathan j. Robinson's argument basically is that He doesn't really lay that out and so right wing populism is essentially just Fascism because think about who we see as right wing quote-unquote populists, you know a gyreble scenario. Yeah tucker carlson Donald trump and they're all fascists. So the question is you know is uh Right wing populism a thing and how does the left respond to that because his argument has kind of directed at crystal ball In the sense that he thinks that she's kind of enabling this type of fascism by one not challenging it And two by kind of sanitizing it right because Nathan j. Robinson admits that he agrees with what sauger is saying 80 of the time But the thing is that you know if you allow Yourself to just talk about discussions where you you know agree where if you narrow that parameters You're kind of not really getting the full sense of that person and how problematic they may be So for like an extreme example if I were to talk to david duke about just cats and food I'm sure that you know It'd be a little scary uh because he scares me I I don't like black cats.  We'd agree seemingly on everything But if we you know widened that scope and we started talking about Identity politics, uh, you know politics in general then it would be problematic so, you know the argument not to um Kind of put words in Nathan j. Robinson's mouth But what I took away from this is that crystal ball is kind of helping to present this Fake illusion of you know right wing populism when in actuality it's it's not a real thing It's just fascism and we shouldn't enable these people now. I don't know what the implication is I don't know if he thinks that like we should kick sauger off of the hill I don't think that's what he's implying maybe he just wants crystal ball to challenge him more But I thought that it was a thought provoking piece because this is something that I've kind of grappled with like I'm not sure how many people remember this but back in Is it 2018 or 2019 me and Kyle Kalinsky kind of had a similar discussion on the progressive voice show But about Joe Rogan, right? And you know, whether or not he is acceptable You know, uh, because I I take issue with his stance on trans rights and whatnot. Oh, absolutely Um, so, you know, it's probably his most problematic thing Absolutely I kind of feel that he's I'm not going to get too derailed with this But he's kind of a Rorschach test for whoever his guest is because I find when he has Cornell West on the show Uh, you will have just an incredible Elucidation on the history of socialism and you'll be in America and you'll be like, this is a beautiful hour of my life I I I'm very happy I spent this time.  I'll never get back, right? Yeah, it's kind of like a Dave Rubin But not as bad as Dave Rubin like he pushes back sometimes like the kandis owens interview on climate change That's a great example. I think I even talked about that on my program But you know, it's just a matter of like how does the left respond? And I think that Kyle Kalinsky does make a really solid point in that, you know, if you think that people like Dave Rubin Uh, or excuse me, not Dave Rubin, but uh, Joe Rogan or crystal ball are in a way inadvertently offering you a type of Like pipeline to the alt right then, you know Having them, you know, um offer left perspectives could potentially be a pipeline out of the alt right as well So, you know, it's complicated And I think this is a really nuance and somewhat messy subject And I wanted to get your take on this because I feel like you really have a solid understanding of the alt right And you know how people kind of get trapped in that pipeline So, you know, what is your take on this is the left being a little bit too like Cancel culturally or do you think there's actually something there with Nathan j. Robinson's argument? So, um, I guess if we took it, what's the classical definition of fascism you you're basically combining economic populism, right? That's what hitler was doing. So ideas that are very, uh, Social in origin where we're talking about socialized medicine things like that, for example with, uh, right wing or far right conservatism combined the two Right, I mean even far past. I'm not I'm not going to call the right wing as as far fascist as they were But so are we seeing that and suddenly Tucker Carlson? I think even before Tucker Carlson, you were starting to see that with people like say Alex Jones Who was constantly talking about instead of, uh, I mean, they would usually have a couple of dog whistles here But it would talk about the globalists, right? It's the globalists and the elites and it's all of them right off in the corner or something like that He's he's talking about that and it's all it's all coded for, you know, the international bankers and you know In brackets all that kind of stuff, but they're constantly vilifying this idea of there is something external And I mean if you're on the left, you'll understand it It happens to be like there's no secret to any of this, uh, the the people who control the levers of power Happen to be the rich, right? The the the quote-unquote elites we we know who they are. You have to look at the who's the fortune 500, right? We know who the billionaires are. We know what they own. We know what assets they have We know the oil companies and all that kind of stuff We understand that but they will try to take that same idea because everyone experiences alienation, right? We're all everyone's Having trouble finding employment even worse now. What's coven 40 40 million extra Americans that employed But you've got this idea where everyone is experiencing this alienation And now we've got this section of the right that's tapping into those same kind of things And and selling them and repackaging them with right-wing populism as well. That's what I would well, sorry I know right-wing populism is something I agree with your statement there, right? But that's that's what I would say is quote-unquote right-wing populism and in the case of crystal ball and You know during bernie sanders campaign. I was a huge fan of her and it was just it was really nice scene Maybe just like a mainstream sunday morning tea like good morning america style show that was actually talking about points with bernie sanders Right, whereas now I cannot stand it like if I even if I hear that little jingle that Like I actually get like, you know a visceral like fearful like I can fear my my skin crawling Because a I think it's come out now at this point. I think one of the biggest Producers or founders on the show happens to be deeply invested in the oil companies of the u.s And I've read a number of articles I think even the intercepted an article on this how the hill Exists to kind of so dissemination between the progressive movement and the liberal movement of the united states So there might be an argument to there. I'm not going to go to tinfoil hat. I was just making fun of alex jones two seconds ago, right? but But the idea then that we have we have this show in which she's starting to say and I noticed she was saying this a lot Before she got called out on it that tucker carlson is right about this and it usually starts with that preface, right? Like I just want to say this. He's an awful person. All right. He's a white nationalist We get it. He's a mouthpiece But he's not wrong about blank and there seemed to be a lot of those segments, right And tucker was actually right about this tucker is right about this and yes, he's a bad person But it's true that there is these global elites that control the levers of power and into crystal ball I'm sure she thinks that it's it's the rich I'm sure she thinks that it's you know, again the the elites actually are who the elites are right? Like I said the the millionaires the billionaires who control most of the levers of power in the united states But you can't repackage what tucker says for the left. That's where the danger comes in and that's what I would agree with This idea and maybe that is you know, I've read Nathan j robinson's article I haven't read the book that you have in your hands, but that that's where I agree with Nathan But you can't normalize tucker and his ideas you have to consistently call them out for what they are because otherwise It's very insidious Yeah, and one of the issues that Nathan j robinson also brings up is that there's this um explicit assumption in the book that it would be beneficial for the left if we teamed up with the right If the populist left and the populist right kind of form this, you know Economic alliance then we can get a lot of things done And I think that that is something that I unequivocally reject because I think that you know if you want to form a coalition That makes sense. We need a rainbow coalition. I think that fred hampton kind of he led the way on that You know, uh, but it has to be an anti-racist coalition because you can't disaggregate You know the race issues from the class issues So you can't throw people of color and trans people under a bus and say well We're going to team up with them for these economic issues But you're going to have to wait by the side like it doesn't work that way because the these things are inextricably linked So that's one of the things that you know, had I read the book I would have also been turned off by that because I absolutely don't like this notion of teaming up with You know the populist right because I don't think that there is a populist, right? And I I'm glad that you brought up the tucker crawlsome thing Like he's a bad person But like that still normalizes someone who is very clearly a white supremacist and you know by Trying to point out the good point that he makes and since he's so nefarious You know, it's great that he made a good point, you know positive reinforcement Sure, I believe in positive reinforcement But this is an actor who is very intelligent who knows exactly what he's doing You know, he throws you a couple of crumbs with regard to economic issues But if you accept what he what he has once he gets you in then you're pulled into a very nefarious explicitly white supremacist agenda and maybe you know He doesn't convince you right away But as you listen to him more because you were hooked by his economic policy statements Well, then maybe you know, you start opening your mind a little bit more to white supremacy So I think it's it's a dangerous path to go down and I think that there really is like I don't want to say that you know The the show the rising is awful because I also watched it a lot, you know during the primaries But I think that we do have to be careful as lefties to not allow Snakes like, you know, tucker crawlsome to be legitimized by us, you know, either wittingly or unwittingly And it like part of it is I feel like it should be just on its face Laughable because you have sagar and jetty who's the co-host of the hill rising He's a trump supporter and he rails against neoliberal democrats But trump is a neoliberal like he ran as a populist, but he governs as a neoliberal So how do you not abandon people who aren't living up to your populist principles? So to me, it seems like a trojan horse to you know, the the alt right and that's why I think that there is something To you know, Nathan j robinson's point here, but I I don't want to discount, you know She's not the only one making that critique either by the way It hasn't just been coming from Nathan j robinson I've seen a lot of other figures on the left and I'm not just in relation to to crystals in particular But this is the idea of the left starting to embrace elements of that right wing populism Totally whatever you want to say, you know quote-quote right wing populism Yeah, and I think we have to reject it and we have to be very vocal about it because you know If you give them an inch they take a mile because they are very very Um strategic and they're savvy like people nowadays you're not going to find someone to say hey guys I'm a nazi. Here's a swastika like they use code words like I Consequence levels, right exactly exactly. So I mean you have to you have to not get duped by them in other words But at the same time, you know, I want to bring up Kyle Kalinsky who made a good response video to this You know to where he says, you know, you you have to acknowledge that the average like layperson the normies They're not going to necessarily be as keen to these things and by criticizing people like crystal ball It seems like we're being like overly cancely or whatever. So it's it's tough I I feel like we're walking the fine line, but there's so much it's I have no desire to cancel her like I right like I I don't really say I'm not a cancel culture person in general because I don't think it works I don't think there's such a thing, you know, if it works jk rolling wouldn't be allowed to tweet anymore Dr. Carlson wouldn't have a show. Yeah, exactly. I don't think cancel culture is a real thing Like when it comes actually could I just quick sidebar What was your thoughts on Kalinsky's latest defense of Stefan? Oh, because he's coming out as a bit of a free speech absolutist right now Like do you do you agree with that thing? I don't know what he said. I'm assuming that he said that Stefan Malinio shouldn't be deplatformed But I would disagree with that It's the idea that it's a slippery slope and that, you know, it's only a matter of time before I think he said like, you know, you think it's okay when they're coming for people in the far right What happens when they come for people on the far left and then it was like I can't really think of what the far left is I mean, I think maybe his example was fair con or something and I was like I don't consider him in any way to be a leftist. I think I consider him an anti-semite And I think he's a very a very isolated example and he's been deplatformed. So I don't think it applies to anyone Yeah, yeah, you know my take on that is I kind of had a conversation with Kyle about this during the Crowder-Maza situation where Stephen Crowder was demonetized and I was you know, all for that But I'm not worried about them coming for the left because we're already dealing with it Like they have functionally deplatformed a lot of lefties, you know, as we kind of talked about earlier So it's not like It's not the biggest issue. But for me like the way that I think about this is um, you know, you have to be you have to be How do I put this?  I think him Jared Taylor, uh, David Duke, they all think that Tucker Carlson speaks for them Like oh, he's our best our best voice in the mainstream media happens to be Tucker Carlson. You know, he knows he speaks the truth Yeah, here's here's here's a good uh, here's a good quote for you I don't know if you've ever heard this but uh, I think it was Zizek who was talking about uh, how a little bit of dogmatism is Actually a good thing and he's like we can determine as a society. He's like you wouldn't argue with someone I should probably be But you wouldn't argue with someone about the merits of rape, right? Like you wouldn't have that debate that so there's there's nothing to be had there No, it doesn't matter what their argument is. Uh, he's like, well, it feels good or whatever that like that's a non-starter We know we can cut off the bar So like a little bit of dogmatism within society can actually be a defining characteristic of the level to which we've reached So I think I think that is okay to to an extent, right? I don't think that every single person who says something Like I I'm again, I'm very very I'm further on the free speech train than I think most people on the left are And I usually stop at the limits of hate speech right if it's going to directly damage or harm people That's where I'm like, okay I don't think you like your freedom of speech can also be limiting someone else's freedom of speech In just in the in the exact opposite direction. You just don't think of it that way. Um, sorry I've done I've done the tin pool thing. We're so far off your topic But uh, yeah back back to back to kalinsky and and you know, uh crystal ball, uh, I I think I think she has I think she she she she was aware of it as well because she apologized She she issued a video or sorry, I don't know if she'd directly apologize But it was more of a just like I know what everyone's saying I've seen the I've read the articles and everything and uh to this extent like I am not praising tucker carlson He's a horrible person. He's a white nationalist. Let's like, you know, get that out You know, that's it's a non-starter kind of thing Yeah, and I will say just for the record. I I like crystal ball I'm not assuming like mal intent in criticizing because I I've also done horrible things On my channel, you know, it's it's all about growing right where human beings were in perfect Like I've platformed ha goodman and I kind of like attribute my channel to his success in a way And now he's a mega chat So that's something that I really think about like how am I vetting these people who I bring on my channel and whatnot And to kyle kalinskin's point, I think that what he says like his principle stands on this gets you so cancelled I'm gonna be I am I'm I've already been cancelled.   Now he's a trump support. No, no um No, I so I really like kyle kalinski's stance even if I disagree because he is so principled when it comes to free speech And like he sticks to it Um, and I wish that I were as consistent as him on this issue But my stance has changed a little bit and I kind of feel like that free speech absolutism That he champions it only works if we all have the same agreement on free speech Like if people like stefa and molly new and david rubin actually Were the free speech champions that they say they are then I think that that stance could work But because they're not because they would take away our free speech rights That's why I think it doesn't necessarily work in practice My thoughts on that though is that like I I am someone who I'm on the same page as you I'm completely fine with uh, Apologizing maybe it's the canadian and me right but like I'm completely fine with apologizing I'm fine with taking things down like part of being what a quote unquote progressive is to me is that I'm constantly Changing and evolving my beliefs based on information is as proposed to me right like if you had told me 10 years ago About aspects of the trans community. I would have had no idea what you're talking about I would have been like what isn't that just people dressing up in drag or something like that You know like I wouldn't have and like obviously I like try like anyone else to try to read and you learn You better yourself so the idea of just being like I don't delete any tweets I have ever made I don't do anything because I want a permanent leisure and like To a certain extent like I wish that kyle klinsky would take down the old tweets where he calls people the f slur For example as an insult, right? And I understand that he's of the mind where he doesn't have to change anything he does But to me that's kind of the same thing that trump does, you know like trump never apologizes trump never backs down So do most strongmen, you know, that's it's kind of this absolutism in which like I never want to show I don't think it's I don't like I'm Please don't think I'm comparing the two of them. I think like I like kyle klinsky I've interviewed we love kyle. We don't like trump I'm trying to you know, juxtapose the two of them back to back But what I what I am trying to say is that like I I think there's no shame or problem in either admitting when you're wrong Or even trying to better yourself as a content creator, right? Like, you know, take your stuff down. Take uh, take a video down like I did it very recently I I was debating a right wing, uh race realist by the name of actual justice warrior and he had called out a video I did on fergensen and mike brown and uh Before he even did a video on me and my you know take on the mike brown incident I was already getting feedback from my own community where they were saying this was a really bad take lance You know like you because I was I was kind of just downplaying the aspects because I hadn't read the department of justice report I didn't know uh like all the facts behind it and I was just saying like well Mike brown was just he was walking while black and yet another case of just police brutality You know this kind of stuff and everyone was like you should actually be more informed on this, right? You can't it's going to look worse long term on both you and the left if you just try to Have this absolutist like you know, the black people are being persecuted because they are there's there's an incredibly Huge problem in the united states when it comes to the black community and the way they are treated the systemic racism Historical racism all this kind of stuff, but to do this in this one case is bad So yes based on that feedback I took the video down and then because he made a video on me He he actually thought that he had credit for this or something and we ended up doing like a very spicy debate afterwards But again, I I have no problem with that like and I never will like you'll you'll probably find me down the road Apologizing for things that I'm saying in this interview right now But there's there's no problem with that to me. You know, I think I I don't see that as a sign of weakness I see it as a sign of growth Yeah, absolutely And that's why I like I'm not sold on this idea that cancel culture is a thing because people Like I said like if cancel culture were as powerful as people Get out to be then Tucker Carlson wouldn't have a show a lot of people would be cancelled, you know But like growth is important Like I think that there's this assumption with this cancel culture rhetoric to kind of shift gears into cancel culture That the left is uncompromising and they're never willing to accept growth But that the opposite is true like I totally agree with you like we are pro growth Like if you're gonna grow and change, I think that's really important Like cult of dusty is one of the best people to talk to on this I haven't talked to him yet, but he's someone who I actually I was subscribed to him a long time ago Like in the early 2010s, but I actually unsubscribed Because the content that he made he made a particular video about black lives matter that I disagreed with I thought it was a bad take so I unsubscribed and like he's back now He's streaming and he talks about all these bad takes I had they were terrible I said this I said that and I disagree with them And so I think that that's really phenomenal That's beautiful and for me if I were to go back to like the early humanist report catalog I would probably find a lot that I disagree with because the thing is that we're constant as human beings We're constantly growing and if you're not growing then I think that's bad like it Nobody wants to admit that they were wrong. Nobody wants to back down Everybody wants to be able to commend themselves for holding strong on something on a particular position throughout the years But that's not realistic for everything. So I think that you know encouraging growth is important And cancel culture like we keep seeing it like there's this letter from harper the letter as it's Yeah, we can get into that I saw a video from david dole on this and he basically said everything that I wanted to so I kind of feel like Okay, well, it's out there. It's a that's in the universe, but I mean like it's Cancel culture is not Really an issue Um, it's more of a thing that is used in a way I think to ironically to silence the left right because like if you criticize someone like jk rolling for example What is her first defense? Oh, well, this is cancel culture. Everyone's two pc But it's like well, you're not canceled though.  I guess Well, no, I I completely agree with you like I I I don't think cancel culture is a real thing I think that like even someone like jk rolling is going to even if jk rolling was the platformed off of uh, twitter tomorrow for You know hate speech towards the trans community Um, she would still be a billionaire. She she could start her own twitter tomorrow If she wanted to right and I'm not even saying learn to code But she could actually she has the money to start her entire social media company Um, it I don't think it's a real thing and I don't think it bears fruit in terms of like Where the results can can you give me examples of people who were canceled right as a part of cancel culture?  Daniel Radcliffe right just came out and and just did the most beautiful elegant little like, you know You could just hear it as it is tonight for the web school voice You know just coming out and and made this whole post that was just so lovely to see that was just like I I'm sorry, uh, that she's she's doing this but at the same time if you as a child Uh took anything from these please don't ever let that leave your heart I hope it it meant to you as much as it meant to us to create all that kind of stuff But at the same time trans women are women trans men are men and that's all there is to it, right and and that I yeah, I mean, I mean, sorry my my long wouldn't answer short that cancel culture is not real Yeah, no, and that's that's beautifully put because I I totally agree like what I see Like the discourse with regard to cancel culture for me can be like reduced down to Someone getting backlash over a tweet.  So have you really been canceled though? I mean, it's just it's not really a real thing and in the instances where someone is like legitimately canceled And they lose their career It's really rare and it usually is legitimate like lucy k like I think that that was probably a justified cancel What did most people say, you know what? I mean, so it's it's overblown and I think that really it's it's I don't know. It's a sloppy discourse. It's intellectually lazy in my opinion So whenever I see like hysteria about cancel culture I mean you can point to instances of like a viral video leading to someone losing their job And sure you can you can debate whether or not that's something that we want in society But overall what we're really talking about with cancel culture Um In terms of like the political discourses people with large platforms people who are on national mainstream news People with power and money and you're not being canceled if we criticize you They just want to put out shitty takes and not be criticized But I mean that you're canceling everyone else wants to criticize Let's let's use louis as an example because louis in my opinion wasn't canceled in the same way that these people are saying they're canceled louis was accused uh of women of uh, you know, forcing them to watch a masturbate And locking them in rooms to to perform those acts and then admitted to it And and that was it It wasn't like this long ongoing process where louis said like the the thing with all these comedians who are like You can't even do comedy anymore. Like I can't even say what I want to say I'll be canceled instantaneously blah blah blah Sure, you can do comedy you can do have you seen eric andre's new special It's got to be one of the most offensive comedy specials in a long time And yet it's it's still not as bad as most of these other comedians stuff because there's a point, right? Like what is the punchline the same thing with like the really the the kind of shitty Uh, Dave chappelle one of my favorite comedians probably my favorite comedian. Actually if I if I tell me to be honest um His newer special is unfortunately on netflix Not not that good and just because it really feels like he's punching down, right? He's you know, he's attacking members of the trans community stuff like that And there's not really a point to the punchline at the end of the j Sorry, the punchline at the end of the day wasn't like something that is actually going to be transformative That actually makes me really think about a societal issue like he used to do so beautifully. He was sublime at that, right? um So in the case of louis ck, uh He's even though he was quote-unquote canceled by which by virtue of like he admitted to doing some pretty horrifying things He still sells no comedy clubs. He still makes comedy specials. He's still if you wanted to I'm sure he could have a special on a non netflix-esque network I'm sure you can get on a whole bunch of other tv shows if you really wanted to right like he hasn't Effectively been silenced, you know, uh, how about someone like mel Gibson? You know mel Gibson has to be one of the most vile racists of our generation in terms of like he believes these horrifying things And is vocal about it.  I'm trying to keep it as PG.  I think that's pretty cancelled I don't know No, I will say the people who are the most like anti cancel culture They are cancel culture though Like I can't remember who and I'll put it up on the screen Megan kelly was railing against cancel culture previously But all of a sudden she's tweeting at nike and disney because they just penned a deal with colin cappernick I mean, what is the goal of tagging them, you know, it's trying to get him fired, obviously So it's like cancel culture is a weapon that's being used Disproportionately against the left and like I think that you can debate the merits of cancel culture In fact, since we're talking about this, I've got to plug the sub more news Segment on this by cody johnson.  Like i'm sorry Yeah, no, I totally agree. Um, who's who's an example? I was just thinking of And now you've got me distracted by cody shoddy. I can't can't stop thinking about it. Shout out to cody shoddy He's he's our he's our lefty charlie kelly. It's not not the one we deserve, but it's the one we need. Yeah I don't know. Sorry. I lost my fan thought we'll we'll just we'll just keep talking. Okay. Okay. Um, well, yeah I will plug since we're talking about cody shoddy Back in 2018. I was on the creationist cat channel with benjamin nixon and cody shoddy Uh, I loved it. So check it out. Um, it was one of my funnest collaborations aside from this one Because you know, I got to be like associated with like comedy and i'm not very funny Like i'm kind of like this dry nerd But they told like the video was awesome. So I'll plug that and maybe I'll put a link to it if I could find the video I'm sure it's still around. Um, and and we're plugging creationist cat at the same time. So yeah creationist cat is all around Yeah, yeah and benjamin nixon also who has a podcast daily. I think um, that's phenomenal We'll just like go through all the shout outs now. No, um But since we're going to shout outs, um, let's go ahead and uh, let's plug your channel Because my audience has got to subscribe to you. You have two youtube channels, correct? I do. Yeah, so I basically wanted to emulate the tim pool Strategy like I told you so I stream every day on twitch. Uh, you can check that out Obviously at twitch.tv slash the serfs tv. In fact, uh, most of our social media is just at the serfs tv So if you go to twitter.com slash the serfs tv, uh, instagram slash the serfs tv pornhub.com slash the serfs tv You'll you'll find every every version of that but then our new channel I'm sorry. Any only fans on uh, serfs tv or serfs on only fans? Yeah, that that that one will be coming up soon Um, but then uh, the other one is uh, it's called the serf time So it's just youtube.com slash the serf times and it is basically I take my streams that I've done during the course of the day And I'll edit them into little teeny parcels and you know parsecs You know, I can I can speak in her too. I I love my I love my star wars But anyways, I I would cut that into little pieces and then I would put that up on the the serf times And it's astonishing how much that works Like I'm I'm going to be totally honest with you. It the timpool model works for reason It's it's one of the reasons vosh has grown so fast so quickly If there is one strategy I would tell the left to start emulating is that and you know, obviously, um, You know work on your craft, uh polish your stuff make make your stuff as entertaining as possible You know cultivate your own voice and and find what works for you and all that kind of stuff But in terms of trying to aggressively attack the youtube algorithm and promote left to stuff That strategy does work like 10 minute plus videos into very catchy kind of like Headline thumbnail stuff like that. It is a really good strategy Yeah, that's good to know because vosh is to his credit He is blowing up on youtube which is really nice to see because like that type of content before like five years ago That's like longer for him. Um, it wouldn't have a leg to stand on in youtube Like you really were incentivized to make shorter videos and I'm kind of still in that shorter video mode But the longer format videos, especially if people like, um, post in clips of live streams It really does have like a ton of views. Um, so that's that's really good to know I kind of need to shake up my format. I haven't had a really big format change But I kind of do a little bit of both here like I'll do some shorter news videos And then I'll do like my deep dives which are like 10 plus minutes But I kind of make videos for like Assuming whether or not I would want to watch them and I I usually aim for like 8 to 12 minutes I think that's the sweet spot Because like you don't you don't want it to be too short like you want to finish your dinner if you're watching youtube But you don't want it to be too long because you know, they're supposed to be quick But I think that really trying to grow is part of the process So we can take back this algorithm from the alt-right And that's I'm glad that you brought that up because that is important for people to know Who are kind of like these up and comers who are trying to get you know, um They're footing the door and it's just it's really tough Yeah, I mean the other uh piece of advice that I would give if if we're doing this is to uh Use solidarity because that actually works quite a bit as well on on youtube like combined with other content creators Collaborate as much as possible promote each other. Um, that's what the right was doing without even thinking about it Because I don't think they were thinking of the solidarity They were just thinking of it in terms of marketing principles, right? So your Dave Rubin's had Joe Rogan on your Joe Rogan's had Stefan Molyneux on your Stefan Molyneux had Jared Taylor And then that's how the entire pipeline was created But their cross-pollinization that they were doing so very frequently Does work, right? Because at the end of the day, it's about finding people and right now you and me have had this unbelievably amazingly lovely interaction and the people watching my stream I'd say maybe like a handful of them are going to love you as well And then a handful of them are just going to be like, yeah, that was nice But like I'm I'm okay and the same thing vice versa, right? Some people are gonna be watching me and they're gonna be like Oh, I like to me was funny other people are gonna be like who is this like, you know Complete moron on on the show But there is there is going to be like an overlap and a cross promotion and I think that that absolutely works I think it's I think it's uh, it's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah I'm trying to commit to that more as well Um, it's tough because it's like you only have a finite amount of time And I'm trying to do more candidate interviews But I think that this cross-pollinization really is the way to go Because if we want to create that type of pipeline for lack of a better word, you know into the left circles Then you do have to do this exactly like you can't just have you know the same Three people that you watch you have to be introduced to newer voices And there's so many great people who are popping up on the left who are just they have to be promoted Like it's a shame that they're not getting the attention that they deserve given how much time Effort and research, you know, they put into these videos So like I try to do my part to promote them and you know, it's it's just kind of like a give and take so Yeah, is there anything else?  It'll be the humanist report It'll be rational national and then some of Michael Brooks and the majority report are usually the main the mainstream ones that I put in there Usually I might add a little Jamie peck or something else in in there as well But that's usually like the four or five that I put on there It would be amazing to see More voices get promoted as well Like I would love if there was for example a woman who's as prominent as sam cedar is You know, I would love to see members of the trans community get anywhere near those kind of numbers Right, it would be awesome if we had way more like Diversity and promotion that kind of stuff like that is to I guess to put a bow on this whole thing The the in pole that Dave Rubin likes to pull Uh, is that's the wrong kind But the good kind is is promoting and collaborating and working with other other creators of a variety of you know Diversity is a beautiful thing. It absolutely. Yeah, it can't just be like five white dudes Who you get all your left-wing news from like it has it has to be really diverse perspectives I think that's really important like you need a balanced diet Um of different lefty takes, you know, um, so diversify who you listen to and yeah We'll try to help with that for sure. How often do you stream per day?  I'm monday to friday, uh, usually about four hours a day, uh, depending on depends on the the load If it's a really heavy news day, how much stuff is going down and then there's a segment that I do every day where I just, uh Pick apart ghouls. So I'll I'll I'll just laugh at Prager you I'll laugh at paul joseph watson I'll you know, we'll just line up all these things we were looking at alex jones today And obviously it's they can be vexing. They can be taxing But at the same time that that to me is something that I I find that I've become Decent at uh in in the sense that I'm I'm okay at improv comedy when when I'm looking at they It really helps that their talking points are always the same because you know, the the research isn't too extensive So there's times when and I just talked about it earlier when I really messed this up And I should have done way more diligent research when it came to uh to mike brown and Ferguson But for the most part they they have the same 10 talking points It's basically the attack helicopter comedy equivalent of uh, you know, they're right wing conservative points And and they'll just regurgitate them in different forms Yeah I was gonna ask you about that but that doesn't make sense because like I feel like after I film Like if I put a lot of research and like thought into a piece like by the time I'm I'm towards the end of that Like filming I can't speak like I go like in trump mode And it's like I'm I'm slurring over my words because it's like so much energy to like Try to really focus and like get it out there in a really specific way because like we're covering topics that are like really complex Um, and like if you say like just one word incorrect in a sentence That can like change the entire meaning of like a particular policy Especially like when we're like really knee deep and like Medicare for all, you know, for example, which I haven't done one of those in a while Um, but yeah, they make it easier. You won't be able to it looks like yeah. Yeah, we're never getting it.  So, uh, if there's nothing else that you want to talk about, um, then we can end here and I would really just encourage everyone To please please please subscribe to the serfs everywhere both channels and on twitch If you're not then I will ban you and cancel you from watching the humor support


really eliminate transportation as much as we can and replace it with communication which is what we're doing well it's it's pretty i'm actually joining you from pennsylvania tonight which i'm i'm so excited to go on vacation this summer we can still go to meetings it's fine i actually to that point um the the survey that they're doing for the swift spear um that presentation was so excellent and i'm wondering if there isn't somebody who could help us create an interactive way for the public to provide comment in a way that's easy for us to digest some kind of survey like that um maybe whoever created the survey for the swift spear it could be a really good model and without without it getting too complicated but it might be a really good way we can we can look at a thousand emails but if there's some kind of easy way for the community to give us information and then for us to output it in a way that's organized um that could be very very helpful yeah and the questions obviously are critical it can't be rhetorical i think i wouldn't deny chat to people i think people now have an expectation that it's going to be there and there are some active participants so so i discourage them you know it's just another facet yeah you did a great job jessica good meeting tonight yeah oh i'm all worked up over it are we just are we dismissed yes thank you so much you are dismissed adjourned thank you all thanks everyone good luck in the future


Welcome. Hello question. Is your infrastructure homogenous? Do you run multiple operating systems in your environment? Are all of your Applications written in the same language? Do you have different hypervisors? Do you work in a multi cloud environment? By suspect yes is the answer to any one of those Infrastructure diversity is a reality for most enterprises if not all enterprises So when you think about a technology like service mesh You would expect that there are multiple of them. That's why there's a category of of infrastructure called service mesh Now there are maybe more than any of you here can prattle off. I suspect some of you can prattle off a couple three four Maybe five six Not so much or I don't know Give it a shot in the chat and let's see how many you can list. We'll take a look at that number later My name is Lee Calcoat service measures have been a focus of mine for some time Written a couple of books on them have one coming out in a couple of weeks and then another one coming out Who knows when Boy books are hard I spent a lot of time in this ecosystem. So I chair the CNCS SIG network SIG network Along with the service mesh working group there Docker captain among various other things if I Covered too much in this talk. You want to look at the slides later the URL there Is where these slides and other talks that I've given are posted So you're welcome to them where I spend my full-time role and focus is at layer 5 layer 5 is a service mesh company It's also very much a service mesh community. It's a community full of maintainers of every service mesh mesh project all of the projects are represented and As such the open source projects that the community of contribute contributors creates Are well focused on all of the meshes You're more than welcome to join the slack and be a part of the the projects or the community We'll talk about a couple of those projects today as we look across a number of different service meshes So in an obligatory way, we take a quick look at what a service mesh is Many different ways to capture this Succinctly it's of services first network It's a sort of next gen SDN if you will It's a it's a network that is purpose built for empowering operators developers product owners and it is you know Sort of lays down proverbially at layer 5 offers a lot of Assistance to applications to layer 7 and of the OSI model There's a bunch more of introductory material to what a service mesh is inside of this free book This is the one that's coming out in a couple of weeks. You can articulate the value in hard terms of what a service mesh is You know popularly Described in these four buckets fine-grain traffic control The the ability to offer resiliency to your distributed systems whether they're containerized or or not a lot of observabilities for the three pillars of observability between metrics logs and traces and a fair bit of security with authorize it, you know, some fairly deep authorization application level authorization authentication Certificates and encryption There's a lot in there. There's a lot to a service mesh one of those buckets of functionality that isn't spoken of as often and Some are just kind of coming to understand this is that there's a fair bit of Business logic or application logic that can be facilitated by a service mesh We'll give some examples of that later in this talk But it's certainly an interesting area, there's a lot of power in a mesh lot of power in the network and I think you can begin to expect more from your infrastructure Particularly when a service mesh is present on the softer side of the value that a service mesh offers is that of Empowering different personas different teams I'm empowering them. Yes with smarter infrastructure more controllable a lot of things But but also to help these individual roles decouple from one another a bit So that they become somewhat more empowered and are able to iterate independently and move more quickly operators don't necessarily have to ask a developer to change the logic of for I don't know the number of retries that are Happening from one service to the next in the extent in the in the event of a failure Developers don't have to be concerned with implementing retries. I can choose a retries. I guess here is the example And so they the developers can move faster toward business logic turns out Product owners aren't able to manipulate business logic the mesh can Do deep packet inspection and not just inspection but packet manipulation. There's a lot that can be done inside of inside of a service mesh product owner can Change the pricing structure of a SAS offering using a service mesh A lot of things, but we'll again, we'll get to an example or two There are any number. Well, I guess we said that there's a Quite a few service meshes. It's a bit meshy out there. There are 20 or more depends on how you count depends on if you count all of the flavors and offerings of of Istio for example or not And and there's a landscape that is one of the projects of the service mesh community the service mesh landscape is rather detailed and captures, you know, the governance model and the language and and a variety of other facts about service meshes I've pulled out a few here really to just highlight some of their strengths This is not exhaustive of their strengths, nor is it exhaustive of all of the meshes, but Lanker D has been Known to Deliver value quickly. It's also been known to be performant in part by its choice of language rust as its language for implementing the data plane in Lanker D Istio's Larger or the largest of the projects in terms of scope of functionality. It's also been historically fairly extensible that has regressed some Recently some of that extensibility has been well Temporarily traded in and now being brought back And so Yeah, so this statement still stands The project has been yeah, anyway, so console one of its strengths is that it supports deployments on kubernetes or running workloads and services on the console service mesh both in kubernetes environments and off kubernetes, which is Really important nginx service mesh was just announced last week The data plane that's used for the nginx service mesh is nginx plus more nginx is Proxy And so the part of its strength is its tight interoperation with that very popular proxy Network service mesh is the network engineers service mesh if you will It's the only one that Focuses on lower level concerns So each of these has Different but similar architectures. So we'll talk about their similarities and then look at their differences similarly Every service mesh that's out there Breaks down into really three high-level components a data plane. This is where you will find the proxies that comprise the Mesh and comprise the data plane some service meshes have built-in Gateways both for ingress and egress egress is oftentimes used for security purposes while ingress is used often for a load balancing and traffic redirection A number of things The and that's where a lot of heavy lifting is done inside the data plane in the control plane. This this is The set of components that are service mesh specific They handle commonly they handle logic like I'm integrating with the underlying platform a lot of times that's kubernetes can be other systems It facilitates integration with service discovery systems Really, it's a set of components that perform configuration management for the proxies in the data plane And depending upon which service mesh you're talking about those control planes might bring a little more functionality than the other We're starting to see prometheus and grafana Jaeger some kind of commonly packaged open-source components for telemetry bundled into the control plane There's a third layer here, which is a management plane That does any number of things. There are a few of these out there And They will again Differ in their functionality, but oftentimes provide configuration management across meshes Or maybe facilitate the integration and manipulation of business logic that we were referring to earlier They'll oftentimes they might do performance management or help you there multi mesh federation Some large some work might have a workflow engine or offer up policies for when what to do during Um continuous integration and and sort of traffic splitting and just really Really any number of use cases here So that was sort of how Service meshes are similar. Here's how uh architecturally they're they can be somewhat different This is an older view of istio as of a couple of releases ago Conceptually not a lot different um in its latest release But uh But given the time and the number of meshes to talk about we won't necessarily explain all of these components all that i'll highlight here is that istio implements a popular data plane service proxy deployment style and that is of sidecarrying the proxy to each individual application container Some meshes implement this and while others don't Uh console is one that does implement um sidecar or does a proxy as a sorry sidecar Proxies to the application container actually both istio and envoy support i'm sorry istio and console support envoy as They're out of the box proxy Console doesn't support swapping out envoy while istio Well, how should i say this um like i said istio is one of its strengths is extensibility and there are uh three or four example four examples now of Uh envoy being displaced in an istio deployment with a different proxy Come see me if you're interested in learning more there Um, we'll call out one interesting thing here. That's not specific to console But is becoming another popular capability of a service mesh and that is the ability to run Custom network filters inside of the data plane There's a web assembly is a technology that helps facilitate The dynamically injecting and kind of reloading custom filters For performing some of that intelligence that we were referring to earlier A lot of use cases for these so we'll we'll look at that more linker d Again a control plane a data plane Same model in terms of proxy sidecarring proxies I'd noted before this one was written in rust this one doesn't use envoy But it was written This proxy was written the linker d proxy purposefully written for the purpose of being a In a service mesh data plane and so not Not designed to be general purpose, but but to be used here Octarin is a security centric service mesh actually octarin The company was recently acquired by VMware and I think some of these components are beginning to form part of what tansu service mesh is Is There are different deployment models for service meshes, so we just talked about There's a bunch of different deployment models. We're not going to talk about them all One of the ones that we had mentioned was the Sidecarring your proxy and that model of having a lot of proxies in your data plane There are other ways that people Run service meshes or Other journeys that they take on their path to Running a full-blown service mesh a lot of times in many environments The initial path the initial step that people will take is with a gateway an ingress gateway Or otherwise a a load balancer in a reverse proxy There's a lot that can be done there. There's um, you can begin to break down your monolith With a proxy out in front Over time as you want to have resiliency within your systems more Visibility more security you start to have more proxies eventually you you have a lot of proxies Eventually you need a control plane and you wind up with a service mesh And then when you're serious and you're running your service mesh well Or you want to know how to run it well You bring in a management plane One of the models is about proxy per node or a dame an agent per node a daemon set if you will Which is a model in which there's only one Reverse proxy per node There are pros and cons to this model Different meshes have implemented it There are other models This short book that I mentioned before will take you through them if you're interested. It's a free book. So But suffice to say because there are so many service meshes out there there are Are standards specifications abstractions that have come about One of those is the service mesh interface If you're familiar with cni or csi Then and not the tv show I guess That you would be familiar with or you would have a conceptual understanding for the mission and goal of smi Which is to provide You know more or less the lowest competent nominator set of apis That that provide Things like traffic splitting traffic metrics For you for your organization or you to integrate with as a layer of abstraction Across which any given service mesh may plug in behind And so that's what smi is Very in brief about smp service mesh performance is about helping you manage the overhead of your mesh Helping you squeeze as much value out of it helping you characterize that in a way in which is repeatable that you can Perform benchmarks compare your performance to like meshes to Different service mesh deployments in different organizations so that you can Gauge how efficiently and how well you're running your infrastructure how much value you're deriving from your infrastructure The third spec here is or abstraction here is i'm dubbed hamlet it's Stewarded by vmware it is for It's an abstraction for defining um mechanics by apis and mechanics by which You can exchange service catalogs from between different meshes so from one mesh to the other whether that's the same type of service mesh or not So a bit more about smp. I was describing this a moment ago. You can visit the url It'll give you a short demo Of the this spec and what it looks like in its canonical implementation Its canonical implementation is done in meshery. We'll talk about meshery more The spec itself is vendor neutral. It's proposed for adoption into the cncf It's being currently advanced inside of a cncf working group for service meshes And it facilitates a number of things My hope is that it will facilitate Mesh mark and that mesh mark will help people easily understand The value that they're deriving from their service mesh A lot of considerations around performance Questions and concerns and really like variables to track As you run a service mesh Particularly the more that you use it the more that you're going to want to understand It's it's mechanics. It's overhead in terms of memory and cpu latency and throughput and other things There's a lot of power in there and you know naturally the more that you ask of a mesh or the more that you ask of anything the more Resources that it might it might take and And there's no way that I can summarize all of how that All of those considerations quickly But against maybe suffice to say that an index like mesh mark would be an easy way for most of us to understand How to operate there your service mesh well and so Part of then what it facilitates is an understanding and of comparing Um the different network functions that you can employ in a mesh so things like context-based routing Different types of load balancing algorithms or path-based routing How much do these affect you? How powerful are these concepts? How much time do they save you? Then also the the mechanics by it's not just the network functions that you're you're running but um the Infrastructure that you're using the way in which you're running these And so if you're using You can implement it was using retries earlier as the example you can implement retries in your Application logic inside of a client library that'll cost you some cpu cycles will cost you some memory You can have those implemented outside of your application and Here in a service mesh in a sidecar or in a proxy side card or not And have that piece of infrastructure that was written specifically to do these things perform those tasks And measure it, you know, how much? How quick it does it and how many resources it takes The same thing as you look to implement custom network filters The use cases for doing that are vast But what Are the or the performance characteristics there? It's important to be able to understand those There's been some Well in the layer 5 community and in the cncf we've been engaged with a couple of academic institutions And i've been trying to study in various environments using the s and p specification What these How we've been trying to characterize these performance character, oh geez Try not to use the word characteristics again, but How you how you measure and characterize the overhead here So that you can make intelligent decisions as to how you run your architecture as to whether or not you want your developers to go write something That you otherwise could do with the mesh And how quickly they could get it done versus The cost of doing it in your infrastructure so So we I'd noted web assembly a couple of times if it's new to you know that it's a Well, it's a stack-based virtual machine Sort of like a to describe it quickly and And abuse it a little bit It's sort of like a new fangle a new fangled jvm if you will So the promise of you being able to compile to web assembly as a target is nice because they're You know 40-something languages supported and its execution environments can be in the web browser In our case it can be in the data plane in a proxy It has excellent performance and security characteristics And so is growing in popularity There's an example here that Just looking at the time we don't have time to really go through But this example is one that you can look up and it's intended to be a playground for people to get familiar with Web assembly filters and to see what they're capable of this particular example uses console and On that we should talk a little bit about meshery Uh Which is a service mesh management plane It was Interoperable with smi when smi was announced It is also the canonical implementation of smp And it participates it's being donated to the cncf it participates in a few other programs It as a management plane it does a few things It does performance management that we've been talking about some Yes, that you can use that to Compare the performance between different service meshes. That's one thing you could do you can do that you can use it to baseline your environment and look at how Changes over time affect the performance of your systems Of your service mesh Um, whether that's a new release of a mesh or you changing the configuration of the service mesh or Releasing a new version of your workloads on top of the mesh That it's an ongoing concern It meshery lets you compare overhead between different tests that you run It also has built-in best practices for how to configure each of the service meshes that it supports So meshery will Hopefully help you run your infrastructure with confidence It will tell you when you're you're doing things according to best practice or not This actually I guess I'll say this that part of the the other book that That I'm authoring on service mesh patterns It'll have the first book will have 30 patterns and meshery will be the tool that Provides example of each of those 30 patterns. So shortly the community behind meshery is working on Oh providing support to let you deploy In those patterns quickly those best practice patterns so Meshory is also the official tool That the smi project uses for verifying conformance As to whether or not a given service mesh is conformant with the smi specifications And so meshery does this by Well automating the provisioning of eight different types of service meshes And the deployment of a sample application the generation of load of requests against that sample app The measuring of it and then finally a number of assertions where it tests And confirms whether or not a given mesh is Continues or is or continues to be conformant with smi And so meshery's architecture looks like this So the management plane lays down as a layer on top and across any any type of service mesh Well, maybe I shouldn't say any type, but I'm currently eight of them So more than any other project or product available today And it also has begun to facilitate deployment of web assembly filters So good well I mentioned before there's just a lot of activities going on inside of this community Jump into the slack. You'll find it's it's a warm and welcoming community If not there then join us in the cncf and the service mesh working group There's a few initiatives going on that we didn't speak about today But I'm hoping that this talk served the purpose of enlightening you to the fact that There's a lot of that it's meshy out there and that There are a number of tools that have been created to help with help you navigate those waters So very good. I will be in chat Um, thanks a bunch for being here Bring your questions


We continue today with Chapter 13, The Peace of Heaven. Forgetfulness and sleep and even death become the ego's best advice for dealing with the perceived and harsh intrusion of guilt on peace. Yet no one sees himself in conflict and ravaged by a cruel war unless he believes that both opponents in the war are real. Believing this, he must escape. For such a war would surely end his peace of mind and so destroy him. Yet if he could but realize the war is between real and unreal powers, he could look upon himself and see his freedom. No one finds himself ravaged and torn in endless battles if he himself perceives them as holy without meaning. God would not have his son embattled and so his son's imagined, quote, enemy is totally unreal. You are but trying to escape a bitter war from which you have escaped. The war is gone for you have heard the hymn of freedom rising unto heaven. Gladness and joy belong to God for your release because you made it not. Yet as you made not freedom, so you made not a war that could endanger freedom. Nothing destructive ever was or ever will be. The war, the guilt, the past are gone as one into the unreality from which they came. When we are all united in heaven, you will value nothing that you value here. For nothing that you value here do you value holy and so you do not value it at all. Value is where God placed it and the value of what God esteems cannot be judged for it has been established. It is holy of value. It can merely be appreciated or not. To value it partially is not to know its value. In heaven is everything God values and nothing else. Heaven is perfectly unambiguous. Everything is clear and bright and calls forth one response. There is no darkness. There is no contrast. There is no variation. There is no interruption. There is a sense of peace so deep that no dream in this world has ever brought even a dim imagining of what it is. Nothing in this world can give this peace for nothing in this world is wholly shared. Perfect perception can merely show you what is capable of being wholly shared. It can also show you the results of sharing while you still remember the results of not sharing. The Holy Spirit points quietly to the contrast knowing that you will finally let him judge the difference for you, allowing him to demonstrate which must be true. He has the perfect faith in your final judgment because he knows that he will make it for you. To doubt this would be to doubt his mission will be fulfilled. How is this possible when his mission is of God? You whose mind is darkened by doubt and guilt remember this. God gave the Holy Spirit to you and gave him the mission to remove all doubt and every trace of guilt that his dear son has laid upon himself. It is impossible that this mission fail. Nothing can prevent what God would have accomplished from accomplishment. Whatever your reactions to the Holy Spirit's voice may be, whatever voice you choose to listen to, whatever strange thoughts may occur to you, God's will is done. You will find the peace in which he has established you because he does not change his mind. He is invariable as the peace in which you dwell and of which the Holy Spirit reminds you. You will not remember change and shift in heaven. You have need of contrast only here. Contrast and differences are necessary teaching aids for by them you learn what to avoid and what to seek. When you have learned this, you will find the answer that makes the need for any differences disappear. Truth comes of its own will unto its own. When you have learned that you belong to truth, it will flow lightly over you without a difference of any kind. For you will need no contrast to help you realize that this is what you want and only this. Fear not, the Holy Spirit will fail in what your father has given him to do. The will of God can fail in nothing. Have faith in only this one thing and it will be sufficient. God wills you be in heaven and nothing can keep you from it or it from you. Your wildest misperceptions, your weird imaginings, your blackest nightmares all mean nothing. They will not prevail against the peace of God will for you. The Holy Spirit will restore your sanity because insanity is not the will of God. If that suffices him, it is enough for you. You will not keep what God would have removed because it breaks communication with you whom he would communicate. His voice will be heard. The communication link that God himself placed within you, joining your mind with his, cannot be broken. You may believe you want it broken and this belief does interfere with the deep peace in which the sweet and constant communication God would share with you is known. Yet his channels of reaching out cannot be wholly closed and separated from him. Peace will be yours because his peace still flows to you from him whose will is peace. You have it now. The Holy Spirit will teach you how to use it and by extending it to learn that it is in you. God will you heaven and will always will you nothing else. The Holy Spirit knows only of his will. There is no chance that heaven will not be yours for God is sure and what he wills is as sure as he is. You will learn salvation because you will learn how to save. It will not be possible to exempt yourself from what the Holy Spirit wants to teach you. Salvation is as sure as God. His certainty suffices. Learn that even the darkest nightmare that disturbs the mind of God's sleeping son holds no power over him. He will learn the lesson of awakening. God watches over him and light surrounds him. Can God's son lose himself in dreams when God has placed within him the glad call to awaken and be glad? He cannot separate himself from what is in him. His sleep will not withstand the call to wake. The mission of redemption will be fulfilled as surely as the creation will remain unchanged throughout eternity. You do not have to know that heaven is yours to make it so. It is so. Yet to know it, the will of God must be accepted as your will. The Holy Spirit will undo for you everything you have learned that teaches that what is not true must be reconciled with truth. This is the reconciliation the ego would substitute for your reconciliation to sanity and to peace. The Holy Spirit has a very different kind of reconciliation in his mind for you. And one he will affect as surely as the ego will not affect what it attempts. Failure is of the ego, not of God. From him you cannot wander and there is no possibility that the plan the Holy Spirit offers to everyone for the salvation of everyone will not be perfectly accomplished. You will be released and you will not remember anything you made that was not created for you and by you in return. For how can you remember what was never true or not remember what has always been? It is this reconciliation with truth and only truth in which the peace of heaven lies. And from the workbook, lesson 104, I seek what belongs to me in truth. Today's idea continues with the thought that joy and peace are not but idle dreams. They are your right because of what you are.  Yet must there be a place made ready to receive his gifts? They are not welcomed gladly by a mind that has instead received the gifts it made where his belong as substitutes for them. Today we would remove all meaningless and self-made gifts which we have placed upon the Holy Altar where God's gifts belong. His are the gifts that are our own in truth. His are the gifts that we inherited before time was and that will still be ours when time has passed into eternity. His are the gifts that are within us now for they are timeless and we need not wait to have them. They belong to us today. Therefore we choose to have them now and know in choosing them in place of what we made, we but unite our will with what God wills and recognize the same as the being one. Our longer practice periods today, the hourly five minutes given truth for your salvation should begin with this. I seek but what belongs to me in truth and joy and peace are my inheritance. Then lay aside the conflicts of the world that offer other gifts and other goals made of illusions, witness to by them and sought for only in a world of dreams. All this we lay aside and seek instead that which is truly ours as we ask to recognize what God has given us. We clear a holy place within our minds before His Altar where His gifts of peace and joy are welcome and to which we come to find what has been given us by Him. We come in confidence today aware that what belongs to us in truth is what He gives and we would wish for nothing else for nothing else belongs to us in truth. So do we clear the way for Him today by simply recognizing that His will is done already and that joy and peace belong to us as His eternal gifts. We will not let ourselves lose sight of them between the times we come to seek for them where He has laid them. This reminder we will bring to mind as often as we can. I seek but what belongs to me in truth, God's gifts of joy and peace are all I want. I seek but what belongs to me in truth. So today we sink inward to the peace of heaven. We sink past the dream of forgetfulness. We gently awaken from the sleep of dreams and death. Today we will see no conflicts in the world because we see no conflict within ourselves. There can never be a war between what is real and what is unreal. Today with the Holy Spirit's help we simply look upon the false as false. We see the linear cosmos for the falsity it is. It could never take the place of our holiness, of our divine presence. The past never offered anything. The future is imagined also without value of any kind. There is no darkness within and today we see there is no darkness without. For what is without and what is within are one. Today we follow the Holy Spirit into this immaculate state of mind, invulnerable transcending darkness, living, sharing and radiating the light. Nothing can prevent what God would have accomplished from accomplishment. God's will is done. Today I seek but what belongs to me in truth. Today I seek the gifts that were before time was. Today all obstacles are removed. All meaningless and self-made gifts are seen for the falsity that they are. Today we reserve the Holy Altar for the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Today we receive the gifts of eternity as we lay aside the conflicts of the world that seem to offer other gifts and other goals made of illusions. Today we release ourself from the world of dreams and accept ourself as God created us. I seek but what belongs to me in truth. God's gifts of joy and peace are all that I want. Amen.