Since Dimash is on I suggest we put that first Okay, I can do a couple logistic things first just the hackfest planning an internship program update and then we'll have the borough proposal Q&A on GSL as well as the project tiering discussion So really quickly on the Hackfest side of things April 24th and 25th DC area I'm dropping the link into the chat window right now if you are attending. Please get registered as soon as possible Also, we have a draft agenda started Thank you to those that have been populating some suggested topics in there anything else. Please get it slotted in We'll get those all sorted out at the beginning of day one there on the internship program front On the update is we're working to finalize who the six interns will be We're working to close on that by the end of next week and get everything kicked off So we're in touch with all the mentors there and they're reviewing the proposals right now Any questions?  Do you do did we get many candidates? Yeah Really well. There was fantastic response. There are around 40 people 40 students that applied for the program. So we're really happy with that To fill six slots. So really good diverse set of candidates across geographies and Interests as well That's great. Thanks. Yep Alright So Chris next up we have the borough proposal slotted I don't know if you want to do that or move to the GSL just since we're not at quorum quite yet Yeah, I wanted to give to much because we deferred him for like a month I think and yep, we keep running the clock and so I think the right thing to do is to give to much You know, maybe a couple of minutes to sort of refresh everyone's memory on the GSL Discussion and I think that you know at the end of his last presentation that there were still some remaining questions So I think this is the opportunity then to To discuss those so to Mars. Do you want to sort of recap the that the You know the prior discussion and then we can open it up for questions Yes, thank you So, thank you for this opportunity I I think that you or the I Presentation first of first a guide paper about the GSL where we introduced the concept and then or presentation on the GSL of how we think that this would Fit into an enterprise environment and especially in financial services and how this would be a very generic utility that we think is probably of interest also besides for industry and The while I did this presentation. I received quite a few questions and The to the chat but since we were at the end of the session I could not answer them and therefore choose to Collect those questions and give their the answers to them in writing the Maybe I just resend that document again to the the developers to the TSE this people that don't have to Search for it So the first question was where I can find the previous paper Instead of me recapping. I think it's best if you just refer to that You find you find the link on our website and this is The question that Q&A Q&A I just made The next question was is the GSL intended to replace parts of existing projects or a complementary project Or is is this a complementary project? We think that really GSL is a concept that is that decouples certain functionality out of existing platforms and It is it is part of an architecture. So the design of the GSL can be here can be hierarchical it is It basically creates an interoperability in the sense of Harvey structure a platform and also it is a tool of interoperability potentially as an eventually between Distributed ledgers or even generic Traditional ledgers The next question was does the GSL replace the ordering service of fabric or is it paralleled? Or is it a parallel commitment log Well, the concept of the GSL doesn't really Cover the the algorithms that I use to sequence transactions Actually could it could use hyper ledger fabrics It could also use In the next next question somebody asked it could also be used to implement a cordless notary service The next question was is there more information the cryptographic nature of the notification that we implemented? if you remember the GSL had Function of not only evidencing Contracts, but also a notifying parties That that notification that notification is done using Cryptographic primitives that ensure that is the notification is only understood by those who are concerned and For everybody else it looks like Random data and this notification mechanism is what the question was is based on our computation out of a shared secret between Sender of the notification and the recipient of notification. This is a well-known algorithm to derive a shared secret in an elliptic curve cryptography and We just use that to Tain and are And to create an offline protocol so an acrobat of a code that doesn't need a code An online cooperation of sender receiver, but just the fact that the sender knows the public youth recipient he can create a Shared secret and then use the shared secret to derive a sequence and notification tokens that are then distributed in the lecture The next question was Yeah, I just wanted if you could remind those of us that they're right in your paper probably a couple months ago Which notification that is that you're referring to? the Defined of a function of the GSL the capability to notify parties involved in a transaction Since we said that the GSL is evidencing Evidence in contracts or transactions Which are not Interpreted by the GSL but are interpreted by a high-level layer this means that Those who are connected to those participants who are connected to the GSL could then Basically need an additional Means of being notified that there is a contract that is that they are concerned that that they are involved in So they are because the the evidence itself doesn't carry any information on the GSL level of the contract and that notification mechanism is That I refer to and that is that we implement using that shared secret The next question was with the distributed ledger reference model that we promised released to the architecture of white paper work Certainly, that's that's our goal that we create this first draft and circulate and collect input from from major framework Also projects from external to hyper ledger before releasing it to a wider community, but it is We hope that this reference model can be validated by Mapping it to existing frameworks and if we if we manage that that could be a great confirmation And that's that's that's why this pre or step pre or step of validation on existence frameworks But yes, we will definitely do this The next question was whether we are proposing to We are proposing to create a Project with it or it will be incubated inside the hyper ledger. Well, we We don't know yet. If we don't do that yet to be precise at this time We are We are discussing this idea with vendors clients and then figure out if there is really an interest for such an independent project and the community deception of this reference model will definitely Influence that decision, but it makes sense to start such a project within hyper ledger I think these were the questions I received and if you have any additional Please Go on. I take this as no Then we can proceed in that game. Thank you very much. Okay. Thanks to much So next up is borrowed are we quarry? Yeah, yeah, we're at quorum now And then I think that Silas or Benjamin One of you want to share your screen I can give your presenter, right? Yeah Yeah, this is Benjamin. Yes, please start. I would be perfect. Okay one second. All right Let me know if this works if I go full screen Yep All right Well, first of all, thank you very much hyper ledger community the TSC We recently joined Hyper ledger as a general member and we're very Enthusiastic to propose the code base that we have Which we've dubbed hyper ledger borrow as a project proposal now to hyper ledger steering committee So a quick overview of what I'll briefly discuss I don't want to take too much of your time So so I'll briefly talk across what is borough which was formerly called RSDB And I'll give a bit of motivation and history of Monax why we built it and also why we're making this proposal I'll give a high level overview on the solution of what is the actual code base and I'll go from there Into how do we think that this can be valuable to the hyper ledger? community and other hyper ledger projects And then I'll try to leave time for questions So I'll try to not go in too much depth But if you have questions and also please feel free to ask them while or afterwards during the presentation So what is borough? It was formerly called RSDB part of the errors platform We think of borough as the permission smart contract machine. It is a full distributed ledger We've worked over the years to make it modular and Importantly it has a permission smart contract interpreter on top of it. This interpreter is built to the Ethereum Sorry It's built to the specification of the Ethereum virtual machine I don't know where I'm getting an echo from but It's muted now. Sorry about that. All right. Yeah, also a colleague opened a laptop So I was thinking was internal on our side. Sorry. And so it's carrying Picking back up the thread. So so importantly it has a smart contract interpreter That we've always built from the start in accordance to the Ethereum virtual machine specification so that allows us to leverage as much of the tooling from the active Ethereum community in Specifically the compilers and solidity coding language So code that is compiled with solidity will also run on on our Ethereum virtual machine and Then for the consensus engine we've worked closely with Tendement consensus, which provides us transaction finality and fully cryptographically signed BFT consensus So very recently in part in preparation for this proposal We've moved as a version 016 the code base from GPL 3 to Apache 2.0 And and that's a new step in its existence. So it has been remodeled and we an updated and improved over many years now since 2014 So this is a new chapter for for this code base But why have we built it this permission smart contract machine for us? The reason has always been on business value Optimization across the default chain For this we've felt that it's important that you have a very strong deterministic smart contract execution So that there's always a fully verifiable trace of all the transactions that have happened As a legal engineering company we put permissions first to observe both legal And and commercial constraints and so I'm highlighting those two points because I think that they will correspond to technical parts of the borough Code base that we think are potentially viable or valuable to the larger hyperledger project As a case in point, there is an older blog post where we wrote smart contract networks Which just so happened to currently reside on blockchains aren't immensely useful to Which really Hopefully brings down the point that we're interested in the higher level Application logic for for this wider range of technologies that is vastly evolving Um And so so as a company we built several things so we built industry specific legally engineered smart contract as the case We also provide blockchain as a service where where we help enterprises set up their pocs or production systems Um, but on the open source side, we built the monax platform So a large part of that is development tooling and it's important to Make it clear that this is not what we're proposing. Um, those libraries are g lp3 licensed But the full distributed ledger with the permissioned ethereum virtual machine Um, it's now a patchy license and this is part of the proposal to the hyper ledger technical steering committee So trying to move a bit on At a very high level borough can be seen As a stack of four major components at the very top the highest level of abstraction Is this permissioned ethereum virtual machine that is both stateless and it consumes an application state interface What we feed it into is a specific smart contract application engine Which Adds a new feature to to the ethereum virtual machine namely we have secure native functions From which we can derive a permission layer The ability that this gives us is that we have a sort of a super user ability that that Restrains what smart contracts can do inside the application so you can draw some analogy to to an operating system where Not all Actions are permitted Those layers themselves are abstracted out by The application blockchain interface and then as I mentioned Tenement is the consensus engine we run on and so that is A dependency of borough But the interesting point to us Is how would we look to build new value being part of the hyper ledger project? and so on the left side, I Put forward some points that I think are interesting to consider So at the highest level the permissioned ethereum is a stateless Piece of code that will transition state and so that can Quite nicely be thought of as well as a transaction processor in sawtooth or as chain code in fabric Then I've highlighted that we are interested in in this permissioning layer from legal compliance and legal engineering So there is an interest for us to to harmonize the permissioning layer across different distributed ledgers And hopefully we can bring some expertise to this field as well And then finally all the way down on the consensus engine We are not tied to any consensus engine So we've built this application blockchain interface to as much as possible abstract those two components out And it would be interesting to look at supporting proof of elapsed time there as well So bringing down this point we've always aimed at building or enabling ecosystem applications And for that purpose we've built tools and we've never tried to to set standards So we've Allowed tendermen to become its own standard or we've worked with the ethereum virtual with the ethereum community to To not introduce or compete on those standards and in the same sense It is interesting for us now to to look with other hyper ledger projects and work groups To really see whether we can have the permission devm run as an application engine on on different distributed ledger technologies Like I mentioned harmonizing this permissioning layer that we think is crucial for enterprise purposes There are obviously also questions But this might be ahead of time where we are like can we standardize or come together on network genesis and runtime configuration? And then there is some very interesting work also with sawtooth leap the transaction families that they have there So can we harmonize on standardize on transaction format? Or even rpc standardization where that might be applicable So a final note just tanking especially also dan middleton from intel and the whole sawtooth team for for interesting discussions so far and also for advising on in these early steps inside the hyper ledger community um Tanking casey my apologies. I should have Apologize for casey wanted to be here, but he Is on a flight to the u.s. So he couldn't make it um And then finally Well, obviously my team and silas is specific, but finally also um, andrea's throwing from tata consulting They have built on our platform And built their own platform in a larger extent and and over the past half years We've had interesting technical discussions and internal proposals on how to Uh build significant new features. And so they have expressed interest By the way, that was awesome. I also talked to casey. I don't are you guys going to be at the hackfest in dc on the 24 25 This is jonathan speaking Have I lost audio? Um, no, I don't know. Can you hear me? Uh, yes, but who am I talking to? It's jonathan levy. Uh, I don't know if you guys are going to be at the hackfest in Like next monthly in dc But I put I put some an item there that we can start playing with more collaboration like cross project kind of Collaboration try to do some hyper ledger with different consensus in kind of fabric or hyper ledger with You know, like sometimes something that combines a few projects So I don't know. It's gonna be nice to play with it. I lost the connection We must have lost the connection with uh Either yeah, I think this is silas speaking. I think we've had a bit of a problem I've just reloaded and um, I think we're back on sorry Could whoever was speaking last just to repeat the last couple of sentences for us Yes, sure. Sorry. I didn't know if you guys are gonna come I talked to casey before Ben and I was trying to see if you like it's gonna be interesting to try to play With some cross project integration like you suggested To try to play with sawtooth to try to look at prior to try to kind of combine Kind of a workflow that going through fabric, you know Tend to me. I don't know to try to combine some of this stuff. We can play with these ideas but yeah Yeah The one in dc I'll post a link on the chat This is uh, April 24th and 25th. Yeah Thanks. Sorry for the connection. I also don't know what happened, but I should be back online Twice now, I think that one sharing the screen one the audio So I I hope nothing fell out of the the Short presentation, but if you have any questions or if I should pick it up back from Got caught out Then please let me know Benjamin or how communities this is William. Have a quick question. Hello Yes, of course Um, Benjamin, is there any work being done with the rootstock? Um, in that in that relationship there? Um, no, no, we do not explicitly collaborate with rootstock. Um I I am aware that they move to the ethereum virtual machine as well. Is that correct? But um No, no, there's no collaboration Okay, just just asking just interested because I'm I'm I'm in touch with some some people the rootstock and It's interesting to know that if they are moving to ethereum virtual machine versus and at the same time parallel Waiting for segway and all the other progress that's being done in bitcoin Yeah, um, definitely and and I think this is in some sense Significant in the sense that there are not that many ethereum virtual machine implementations out there Um, and for better or worse, I think this is the first one licensed apache 2.0. So so it will Um enable easier collaboration on The ethereum virtual machine and at least that is also our hope for for the relicensing that we've done Great, but thanks for it You're welcome. Hi, this is vipin. Since you brought up the ethereum virtual machine, what is going to be? The relationship between you and the ethereum enterprise alliance and how does it Jive with your incubation in hyper ledger Um, so that's a very interesting question. Uh, and and we have a deliberate Um intention here namely that one we are a member of the ethereum Enterprise ethereum alliance um as we are also a member of the hyper ledger community now and Our interpretation is that the enterprise ethereum alliance is predominantly Right now it is playing the role for a standardization body for ethereum. Um, so With that, I think we can bridge the two communities and at least Especially for hyper ledger itself allow for a gateway into the enterprise ethereum Alliance, which currently is debating what the new standard should be But at the same time there exists Um An ethereum implementation that is part of both Now well not yet. Sorry I'm just to add to that. Um One of our one of our encourage Um, um Of the ethereum standard. So, uh, standardizing around the EVM On its own would be of interest to us Did we lose the connection? No I don't know. We can hear you. We hear you another question for you from vipin Could you go into, uh Some detail about the whole permissioning thing because, uh You had suggested that that could become a, uh Layer or an idea that would bind all of the different DLTs in under the hyper ledger umbrella Uh, yeah, definitely. And so so a lot of the, um I will all of the current, uh DLTs if I'm not mistaken are already permissioned DLTs What we've done specifically with the ethereum virtual machine and why it's referred to on the slides and in the proposal as a permissioned Ethereum virtual machine is that contrary to the public ethereum Uh, virtual machine implementations that exist We at every execution step Check for the permissions of the account Um before executing any steps. So so we will return additional errors If permissions are not observed, um, we've done this explicitly in the execution of the EVM Um, but the general concept is that it is important to have, um Certain operations that cannot be restricted, um, only By by by managerial accounts or allowed by managerial accounts um We so and so the general concept that we have there is our secure native functions, which are, um Implemented natively in the blockchain Um, but can be exposed to the smart contract layer um essentially through through a pointer contract um But they they are very different from the public ethereum where all where the permission list Um is provided for by the availability of of cryptocurrency to spend And so we don't have cryptocurrency Um inside the logic of our borough blockchain client Rather, we use the permissions to restrict certain actions on the network and others um What shape that Permissioning layer eventually takes across multiple Um blockchain clients is to me unknown But I think it is very important or or very useful at least from our perspective Um to to to have some standardization or some reflection on on what that would mean If you want to connect different types of technologies together for example It's maybe interesting for these permissions to to be able to carry over as well So if you're uh, if you're checking with every, uh, not every action, but Some significant actions. Does it, um Slow down, I mean have you observed the That there's a degradation in performance or is it? I mean what kind of um, so so these These checks are natively implemented And and there's no significant overhead on on checking these permissions The the permissions state is also just stored in the account state So for all loaded accounts, it's it's equivalent to read from the contract storage or to read its permission. So there's no significant, um overhead there So I I tend to think of permissioning in in two different kind of orthogonal ways. One is What nodes on the network are allowed to publish blocks? And I think that's maybe a very common way of thinking of permissioning. Who's who's admitted to the network? In a sense being able to to publish updates to the network And then there's the the kind of permissioning of what kind of transaction from a client perspective Is allowed more than rules on that kind of transaction Uh, so the the permissioning layer that that you're providing here affects that that first kind of Who's allowed to publish blocks on the network Goes in in borrowed two ways. So it extends Upwards into the application of what a transaction can execute But it is also Implemented downwards into the consensus engine and specifically for tendermint. We only have known part this known validators That sign off cryptographically And for them to bond a stake before they can start Exercising that voting power that they've bonded They need to have the permission to bond that stake. Um, so that is an additional restriction on who can commence Validating blocks as well Thanks, and then you would also be able to control that then with the with the transaction. So it's in in the sawtooth system we do that with Kind of admission transaction for what make it originally Advertised as the endpoint registry and we now call a validator registry, but it's essentially a table in that shared database It says who a valid Who a valid validator is Do it that same kind of Yeah, so so we both have the explicit transactions to bond which Are only valid if you have the permission to bond and That then will allow you to start validating who are the validators is stored in a specific section of the Patricia tree So that there's also a miracle proof of who is validating at what points in In the chain So in other words embedded in the blockchain itself, uh, so So there is a seamless view here. It's not an orthogonal view in other words Both the validators and the transactors are uh, sort of addressed in similar manner Is that correct or is is it my misunderstanding? That is correct. Um with the exception that we have a separate, um Patricia state of the root tree of the miracle tree that that registers also Additionally who are the validators? Um, and so that information is twice in in the In the full tree in the sense that they are also present as it comes in the system That might not have an answer. Sorry. Oh, sorry Did them was on or can I change gears for just a second? um, well, so before you go nick, um, so I want to make sure that we're not just sort of going, you know deep into, you know, what I would call a main coal Main coal is a rat hole that just it's a nicer place to be um, and um, that was bad Well, this is So I think I mean, this is all really interesting conversation and discussion and you know getting into the technical weeds But I don't know that that's really what we're here to review I think what we're really here to review is that the nature of the proposal, you know Are there going to be enough people around to to work on this? Is there interest in collaborating across all of those things have been sort of outlined here and I'm wondering if we should You know, I mean we can take some of this stuff offline and have conversations in chat or an email um, as we want to go deeper into the specifics of how it's implemented, but um, I think that You know, we should try and keep the The conversation up level where we're really focusing on Uh on the proposal itself and not on the technology. Does that make sense? Yeah, in fact the question that I was going to ask was You know, um, can you tell me a little bit about the community? Um, that's using this how mature is the technology? um so Where where do you stand on on use and maturity and How broad is your kind of contributor base right now? um, so the user base, um as an open source projects Starts of course, uh are predominantly I think startups um in in the sense that It's a free open source permission platform for them to work with Um, but that obviously from the commercial side is extended Um by both the the public partnerships that we have Which are Deloitte pwce y and with dose and eccentric Cognizant sorry, I'm getting business feedback here. Um And and the the partners that we've built projects with um Which are both uh commercial banks, um and other interest insurance companies Yeah, I'm getting a fee here And some logistics companies. So sorry for the fake answer. Um, but I'm getting fed this life um Uh, but then so so so that is our focus group, right? We were obviously In this game for the commercial uh market But we feel that this is technology that needs to be built in an open source non Not owned by by one company and so we've never aimed to to own this technology But we've always seen it as a need that it needed to exist And so the mid the whole blockchain technology itself is maturing And this is also why I think that that we're very Um Enthusiastic about the maturity and the fast growth of the hyper ledger community Is because we do not want to be the main maintainer of this code base and so far that has been the case We like I mentioned, we are very grateful for Andreas And and his group at tata consulting who have provided Technical discussions on on a regular basis. Um, but so far the code maintenance has been predominantly on our basis um And that is obviously something that that we would want to see change So as I understand it The code basis is something in the order of three three years old. Is that what what I saw in the in the proposal That you've been working on this for about three years. Yeah End of 2014 is when when it started And there are multiple pilot deployments that you have Um based on it Yeah, yeah, we we have multiple deployments. Um As of 2015, I think it was mid 2015. We started deploying this And and it's far from perfect and it has grown a lot, but There are components that we are think think provide a specific value Which I've highlighted is the ethereum virtual machine Other components have we have spin off spin off in in tendermint, for example Um But the whole distributed ledger as a whole is our current workhorse Um But it is not our intention to to be sitting on this code base or to keep it in the Current form that it has so so that's why We've also emphasized the the the possibilities of interacting with other hyper ledger projects here And one of the things that drove particularly early adoption was the quality of the tooling and the fact that um spinning up Different types of distributed services and running chains was it's not perfect with our tooling, but It's a lot easier than it than it certainly was um early on Uh, so there's maturity around our user base with quite a lot of deployments Um, but we'd like to see a lot more significant Uh meaningful contributions to the core code, which is which is why we're interested in joining Thank you jonathan for uh supporting us there in the chat is um Is Tendermint collaborating with you as well So so we definitely on a developer level work very closely with tendermint Their code base is also Apache 2.0 and already was So we have that as a dependency But it is not where we think the real value and the distributed space really lies In the sense that the value comes from the application that runs on it It is a requirement, of course, which is why we've helped build it But it is not where you produce the actual value And so tendermint is its own legal entity But as as developers were on frequent contact And just one more thing that um on the details just um, I know you did the license conversion Um, are you comfortable with the Apache 2.0 license? and then The legitimacy of the conversion of licenses on it Do you mean, uh, whether we we we've did you get all of them? All our yeah. Yeah. So so both are um investors and for uh for our Venture capital investors we've had these documents already So the work was quite light, but we've we've matured that everything Um is indeed compatible with the Apache 2.0 License that we now have and and the full dependency list has been searched Yes, and also all contributors all lines of code um are checked off Um and for two contributors that contributed as non-employees While uh, it was still gpl p3. We have explicit signed I don't know what the legal term is but things that say that they're okay with that Brian are you have you looked at are you comfortable with the licensing at this point? I have uh Not not scrutinized the code. I mean that's something we can do during the incubation process early on We have a license scanning uh tools as well That we could we could bring to bear earlier if we wanted to um so uh No, we we do even a more thorough check, but uh, I'm comfortable that Monax has taken the due diligence Uh required for this. I brought it up early and they reassured and we've all been through the the c++ Relicensing attempts as well. So I think I think they are appropriately focused on it What I haven't also looked at is dependencies. It does sound like tenderment of the pass the license Which is great. I didn't know if there are any others in there, but that's something else we can check Okay, so um in looking at the proposal. That was my biggest concern. So Yeah, so yeah, and it since it was uh, probably a common concern. I did take a look. I didn't Individually look at every single file, but I did kind of spot check around. So Uh, right at least looked at it. I think Uh, yeah, and I think that that's something that we You know, we probably should do and I don't know if we want to defer any kind of a vote or We want to vote and just make it Um, you know predicated on the license again and so forth. I think um You know, again, my concern was sort of what Mick had originally Outlined in terms of community and I'm only on my phone and so I can't I I'm unable to sort of get a look How many community contributors do you have? Roughly, I see there's about a thousand Commits In the heiress stp repo But I I couldn't derive on the phone how many individuals said, you know Well, it's looking looking directly at github. It's 11. Um, I'd say that's uh Yeah, that's that's a pretty shallow tail though. So I mean, we've had a few pretty useful bug fixes and contributions But we've had for example No major architectural feature Editions from people who haven't at some point been working with eris monax Okay, so this is honor speaking In keeping with the questioning on, you know, how much collaboration can we really expect here? And you know, don't take this as adversarial by any means. I mean, I think, you know This has been raised by several people on the tsc calls lately is you know, we keep getting these projects and we always Imagine the kind of cross pollination or integration We could work on and then the reality is it's not always easy to get it done And so my question is, you know, so you listed in your presentation several possible integration points Which, you know, sounds very interesting But so are you personally actually interested in this? In other words with monax take advantage of having You know EVM on so tooth or Poet on, you know integrated with any of this I mean, what's your level of motivation? Do you actually have a stake in having these integrations happen or is it just yeah, it would be interesting to do I I can share a few points. I think but I will maybe leave one to Dan specifically we are Legitimately interested One argument that I can present for that is that we are a Small startup that still has to watch its resources that it's been and so far we we have Always built the the open source platform as a cost sync It has been there as a necessity to enable our actual product And so so we have a very strong incentive to Uh Use more mature more funded stronger platforms where they are possible Um The points where we look to collaborate is where we think that it enables us to continue pushing our product Which is legally engineered smart contracts. Um, and we are more agnostic to to the actual distributed ledger that it runs on Um, so we definitely have that as a strong motivation um with permission from Dan One of the reasons that he is on the co-sponsor I mentioned as a co-sponsor is because we've had Um, very interesting early discussions already Um on how we could with minimal effort look to for example run the permission to evm as a transaction Um processor on top of sort with permission ledger So as much as I can prove this by just speaking. Yes, we are definitely motivated to To take these points seriously. They're not light heartedly put on on the presentation All right. Thank you Yeah, I can I can uh support what uh benjamin was saying there that uh when uh, I think it was brian probably first Uh suggested the possibility of of monax contributing Borough, I guess before it was even quite called borough a couple weeks ago uh Reached out and started looking where it would make sense to you know, where would this plug in Into the hyper ledger family and it seemed like there was a potential coupling on the apis that we've created recently for Transaction processing logic, which could include in this case an evm Hey, hey, this is morali from ddcc So just for to clarify or get an understanding, right? So some of the projects that Initially came into hyper ledger I thought at the incubation phase You could have certain level of contribution from maximum participants But it is at that incubation stage where you gain attention from other contributors And once you gain a lot of contributors from external entities, that's what matures you to the next level So isn't that the case that We should allow these ideas to Seed or You know have some incubation time for other teams or other Contributors to stick it out This is bright. It is it is true that the incubation period of time is a time for us to Draw other developers in and and build that case that it is a viable freestanding You know communities So so our threshold at this point should be is there a likelihood of developing that? Is it being bootstrapped with the right attitude? And enough of a critical mass to at least get to a second stage But I I feel pretty confident that as this comes in It will bring other developers from the ethereum community to it And and we can be opportunistic about the collaboration between it and other projects And I've heard the right messaging from the developers at note x and the right intent So I think that's a large part of what we might want to base our our decision on Right and I brian. I've actually heard the saying from Andrew and from joe. So, you know, I suspect that if this You know if we approve it that there is likely that you know, they may contribute some of that as well Do we still have quorum? Away from the end. So just wondering if we wanted to try to take a vote It looks like yeah, it's quite good before we start losing people Yep, are we everybody? Yep. All right. So running through the list, uh, arno Yes, chris, uh, yes, dan Yes heart Yes, mick Yes, morali Richard Yes, tamash Yes, all right. Uh, that's unanimous, uh, that's proofed All right, congratulations guys and thanks for Thank you very much The only other topic was around the, uh, projectarian structure top levels Of sub projects. I know we don't have time to dive too far into that, but if you guys just wanted to do a quick, uh Update or rehash still brian or chris Yeah, so there's there's been a lot of discussion on the mailing list The the last set of notes that I saw from arno and dan and heart and a couple of others. I think We're largely plus ones Uh, brian, I think you're Kind of the odd man out at this point because I haven't heard I'm ending it. I apologize for this morning. I haven't seen it if there's anything on the list but I think you were Not necessarily in the boat and but I haven't seen a response I'd like to continue the conversation on list. Um, I didn't yeah, that's what I thought That's what I thought the one I didn't get the same sense I was the only one kind of expressing the desire for the flat hierarchy which I think is is Kind of was kind of my main point was These projects should be treated equally and our focus should be on the community and the health of the community around them and Gatewaying one project through another from a governance perspective seem wrong. And maybe I was misreading hearts, but let me Maybe process. I think okay, so it's it's good You said that because I think you are misreading because I think everybody is basically saying the same thing that they're all But that they They sort of agree that there are some things that are dependencies and they agree to sort of take those Concerns and so forth under advisement and the tsc If we feel that there hasn't been enough of that sort of Discussion and and and so forth that we can sort of send it back and say hey go talk to those guys because You're sort of taking a dependency or you're you're building on top and you want to make sure you're aligned. So I think we're all saying the same thing, but Then then what the yeah, I had read uh, brian's notice is saying flat But I think something that's probably started to get lost as the thread continues is some other um Kind of unofficial criteria or hard to quantify criteria about what's What makes what is the substantive level that makes something be a project? right Yeah, there was some of that and then I think there was definitely the marketing thing and I think that You know, we need to work with dan and greg and and so forth on the The marketing aspect because I I can certainly appreciate From the hyper ledger perspective. How do you talk about the reason about these things to An external community isn't plugged in and and so that I definitely you know agree. We need to figure out So the one thing that Sorry, one thing that I was just going to inject in here is that as we change the roles And the relationships between the projects one thing that has to be clarified is what are the expectations for the tsc That was my biggest concern coming out of there and going well going into this Was that we are expanding the scope of the number of projects which makes it harder and harder for the tsc to Evaluate kind of Technical contributions that are a part of that so being clear about what the expectations are for the tsc For understanding also has to be exposed in this Okay Okay, all right. Thanks everyone and we'll chat at you all next week. Thanks for the good discussion Thank you


Coming to you from RGIS Studios, I am Anicia Antoine and this is your media news brief. The Department of Health Sciences at the Sir Alpha Lewis Community College is working toward the introduction of new programs including the Bachelor of Science in Nursing. The college has entered the final process in preparation for the delivery of this new degree pending approval from the General Nursing Council of St. Lucia. In the next six to eight months, the department will ensure that all requirements are met toward the first intake of students. A main component is a building to house the new students. Developing the curriculum was an important step but having the facility in which to execute it is just as important. Over the past three years, the department has been housed in different locations, the George Charles Secondary School, the Mincer Alpha Lewis Community College building and now a new home at what was once the Camdo Building. For the Vice-Principal of the Sir Alpha Lewis Community College, this represents the college's commitment to not only providing a home for the department but offering the best quality of instruction for its students. Students who are excited about music are being given opportunities this week to benefit from world-renowned jazz musicians via the Jazz at Lincoln Centre. The St. Lucia Jazz Music Education Program kicked off Wednesday with saxophonist Etienne Charles. Over 50 primary, secondary and tertiary students from across the island were in attendance. The music education component of the Jazz Festival was made possible through the collaboration between events company St. Lucia Inc., the St. Lucia Tourism Authority and Jazz at Lincoln Centre. Students and teachers were delighted to interact with the world-class jazz musicians. The PDMU comprised of skilled professionals from a variety of backgrounds with a mix of experience in both the public and private sectors to manage implementation of the medium term development plan. The six key areas which they are focusing on are agriculture, education, health, citizen security, infrastructure and tourism. On Wednesday May 8th, 2019, Prime Minister Hon. Alan Shasne met with a team from agriculture with the aim of improving efficiencies in the banana industry and to improve production in cocoa, plantains and coconut water, among others. The government is also working towards introducing more technology in terms of food production where there are opportunities for high yield, high value crops and non-traditional technologies like aquaponics and hydroponics. This has been your media news break, thank you for watching.


be clean what's going on is engraving here with another video and in this video we hear to talk about to really discuss the jimmy smith's suspension and what it does to the ravens what it does for the ravens and what it does uh really to the ravens um because there's some different aspects when their nose first broke this morning um i talked about it gave my two cents or whatever but i didn't really sit down and really think about the entire thing and somebody shout out to marcus d marcus d if you go to the comment section of the uh jimmy smith's video he made such a great point um and i wanted to bring out that point in this video i wanted to bring out that point in this video and i had to make sure uh i brought it out so first and foremost before we get started let me introduce myself uh me i'm engraving vids and this is my youtube channel engraving vids and i'm a ravens fan and even though i'm a ravens fan on this youtube channel we talk ravens but we just talk football period so if you're ravens fan you're still as a bingles fan who get ready to play in a little bit if you ain't tonio brown fan who said he is playing tonight or if you just love football make sure you subscribe to the youtube channel turn your notifications on so you never miss not one video and also leave a like on the video like my boy ryan malice says it's completely free it's completely free y'all gotta excuse me because i got a loogie i gotta spit out i love y'all and there it goes and there it goes oh you like that thumbnail appreciate it smooth um so anyway uh and you can follow on twitter instagram and snapchat because we always talking football on there too um now again my guy um mark is d the um the comment that he made because this morning i talked about how it disappeared really disappointed me that jimmy smith did this it really disappointed me appreciate it been um it just what's up lola hope everything good man um it disappointed me that jimmy smith did this that he that he took the pd's and that he um he put not only his career in jeopardy he put the team at jeopardy um and it was a very selfish move so i was upset about it what's up a cake welcome back um but then and i and i talked about that in the video you all can watch it i had to sit down i was tired of walking around so um so what mark is d said which was a great point a very very great point he said engraving now what if whatever jimmy smith was taken what if it was something that was over the counter or what if it was one of those um one of those drugs so to speak of prescriptions that um is not a performance enhancement enhancement drug but it's something that the nfl it may have like uh it may have an ingredient that the nfl just doesn't happen to approve of and it's not necessarily something that's used to cheat what if it's something that he could have he could end up appealing uh and win like in a case of uh and somebody brought out richard i'm not sure if it was mark is doing that but somebody in that same comment in the reply to that comment um they they brought out look at james harrison when he got accused of pd's he him and clay math use at the same time they both fought it and they both it it got overturned look at richard sharing when he got accused of it he fought it it got overturned and there have been there's been different players oh there goes mark is d right there okay appreciate it there he goes right there thank you for bringing that up and i'm i'm glad i'm glad that you put that in the comment section so i appreciate it but um there have been different players where they've been accused of it but it hasn't been the right accusation and mark is d when it with him with that comment um it had made me take a step back because i remember when i first uh like i said this morning once i did the video i'm making a video about jimmy smith you remember jimmy smith we were cheering about you can't do it with play cornerback you can play cornerback where's the son it's night time that son's gone the son is long gone it's night time outside now your truck so anyway um so whoa you made me step on your racetrack uh but my son is he i'm following my son right now so we're going wherever he wants to go but anyway um yeah when mark is b put the when i read the comment i had to sort of take a step back because what i did uh with the entire jimmy smith thing i automatically i automatically assume the worst and i automatically assume like okay yeah jimmy smith was cheating um maybe that's one of the reasons he had such a great year this year even though he's had great years in the past before too just not consistently but um i was and i was i was thinking so negatively of it and we don't all we don't have all the facts yet we don't have all the facts and we may never get all the facts reason being because um reason being because we just don't know what it was we don't know what his intentions were and what he took we don't know what it was that he took so it could have been an over-the-counter drug um and it could have been something that he was taking for like somebody else mentioned she's at the gym tathe is i don't know what tathe is she's probably at the gym with mommy too but uh with jimmy smith we don't know what his intentions were and we don't know why he took and we don't know what he took it for um he could have he yeah shout out to carter man um he he could have taken it one to help with the pain for his okay justin boy you're gonna you're gonna say hey do your thing man he could have took it took taking it for pain medication to help with the pain because he's been dealing with his Achilles literally all year all year um he could have been taking it to cheat to enhance his performance he could have been but we just don't know or um somebody made such a great point and i'm gonna i'm gonna save that for a question from subscribers because i could ask it right now because it relates directly to this but i'm gonna save it because they made such a great point but we're gonna talk about it later um but anyway i may do a video right after this about that question but anyway um so we'll see we don't we don't know we don't we don't know tita is um she's uh she's at the gym too tati is i don't know what tati is i don't know what she is so gotta keep carter up to date where everybody is at all times because like like you saw he will ask um so what's up of dgp um yeah so with jimmy smith we don't know um and i mean oh and somebody asks i see a couple people asking that is is he suspended or is he just injured which one is it gonna be it's both it's both he decided not to appeal to suspension um so what this means you can serve a suspension while you're injured yes the suspension i love that your darkest fear that's the perfect way to describe it you can serve a suspension while you're injured a lot of people say it doesn't make sense because you're not playing anyway well them game checks make sense them game checks make perfect sense um so yeah shout out to your darkest fear for suspended i love that um so since what is what that's nasty cavities that you don't want that's why we gotta brush our teeth so with jimmy smith um he's he's not gonna he's he is he's not gonna be playing obviously um but he is he's not gonna be playing sorry i lost my train of thought with the cavities on the tv he's not going to be playing but he's also not going to be getting paid for the four games that he's suspended for so this makes him this allows him to serve his suspension right now right away and it doesn't have to linger into next year now with um with it with with next year it does leave i now one thing i don't regret saying was that it does leave the ravens with some questions now um because depending on what it was since he won't be appealing the suspension that could mean a couple of things that could mean either one he just wants to get it over with get past it get through with it and be done with it and it could also mean that he's guilty another thing that it could mean um and that's that's actually two different things it's that's two different things because with him serving the suspension um it could mean that he just wants to get through with it he wants to get it over with and he wants to be done with it because say for instance what if he appeals the suspension so he doesn't get suspended for the next two three two three games say for instance the nfl takes two three games to review his case and then they decide you know what jimmy smith you are going to be suspended so not only will he be be suspended for the last game of this season but he would also be suspended for the next three games of the regular season next year so that would definitely hurt the team even worse so it would hurt the team in the long run so it could be where he just wants to get it over with so he doesn't want to hurt the team in the long run it doesn't want to hurt himself in the long run could be that or it could be that he's guilty and he's just like you know what i'm not going to fight this i just want this to be over with i'm already going to be kind of ducked off because i'm hurt right now so i won't be in a spotlight i won't be out there people won't really be talking about me like that even though they will be because anytime any cornerback gets burnt you know we're gonna think about jimmy smith and be like oh man what if jimmy smith was playing um so that could be another thing he could be guilty or um he that could be it that could be it he could he could either be guilty or he could just want to get it over with and be done with it um or or if he's even if or if he didn't do it a third option would be if if he's not guilty and he really feels like whatever he took was not a p ed he could feel so confident in him in himself going forward to where he'll be like okay um i know what i did i know what i took and it's not really anything to be suspended about or it's not anything that i'm ever gonna take again or it's not anything that um that i'm gonna have a continuous problem with it's not so i don't i'm not gonna have to worry about this again but i'm not gonna fight it because i don't want it to drag out that could be another another thing that he's going through so we don't know we just don't know we just don't know um so he said still is in the suspension club i mean we all go through it ravens been in there too cowboys ravens we had nick boyle we had we got kina dixon jimmy smith darren walla this year um so yeah don't worry we right there with y'all we right there with y'all um allen lackey said he is hurt so just take suspended why should he fight it when he's gonna get the money and he knows uh he cannot play so why she no he no he's not getting paid he's not gonna get paid for the next four games he's not gonna get paid for the next four games so when you're suspended you don't get paid you don't get that game check so he is playing um no kina dixon is out for the year so he's not practicing so he he threw me off jimmy smith is yeah suspension is a loss loss of game checks exactly so even though he's injured he won't if he was injured and that was it then he would get paid he would get paid like he was playing he said well it gets that playoff check hey ravens got a cash that playoff check first man um but i love y'all man y'all are the best but um so yeah jimmy smith is injured um he just won't get paid for those four games he won't get paid for them four games y'all be cracking me up man so anyway so that sent mr antonio cremati to twitter and it looks like he wants to bring his reality tv show in all 14 of his kids to baltimore what's up sports discussion so it looks like he wants to do that and i don't know if y'all remember the last time um well not the last time because it happened after that so never mind but anyway antonio cremati he tweeted out today and shout out to my guy jason underscore tyler underscore zero zero on instagram because he was the one that sent me a message on instagram and he told me he said engraving did you hear about uh antonio cremati because i was at work i didn't even hear about it i didn't know about it um oh dgp said antonio cremati got as many kids as ravens got started on injured reserve you are right um but my boy jason tyler he hit me up on um he hit me up on instagram he said engraving did you hear about uh antonio cremati wanting to play for the ravens and he's he was like oh eric weddow's trying to recruit him and i was like uh i said no i didn't hear about that so i went on twitter and looked it up and i say oh it was true it was true um so antonio cremati antonio cremati had tweeted out uh he said ravens i'm ready if you need me or ravens i'm available and ready if you need me something like that something along those lines basically letting us know that if we needed him to play he would play now do i think the ravens are gonna sign him right away when i think about it immediately no and then when i think about it in long term possibly maybe but usually ravens don't usually do the popular move they don't do the move that that everybody is thinking they're gonna do and i don't think there may be many people thinking that they were gonna do it because antonio cremati when's the last time he even played football you just want to sign a guy off the street who had a history of getting burnt he also had a history of uh of not being a great tackler remember that too um because i definitely uh i remember that i remember was it against the ravens i forget i forgot against exactly what team it was against but um he he was body in zone and there was a player running his way and he kind of like backed up i forgot when it was but he's always he hasn't been known to be a great tackler he's been he's nice when when he gets a pick when he gets a pick he's nice with the ball in his hands he can make some stuff happen or whatever but he other than that and he his cover skills were all right but his cover skills were all right a couple years ago he's a couple years removed from that he's a couple years older you saw how how i went with the rail grievance yesterday for the chiefs so i don't i don't see that happen i don't see them signing him i don't see them signing him um and i think what the ravens are gonna do first um i think they're going to oh ravens analysis says siren will davis and asa jackson you never know man but what i think they're gonna do first i think they're gonna start from within again like i was saying yesterday jaylon hill is gonna be active now so everybody just gets bumped up a spot brandon car bumped up a spot marlin humphrey bumped up a spot canady bumped up a spot jaylon hill active roster lidarius web still there anthony levin you're even more valuable than you already were so they're gonna i'm pretty sure they're gonna start from within first they're not just gonna go get some get antonio chromati off the street i don't think they're gonna get him at all really i don't think they're gonna get him at all haroon say brandon car got burnt by brown well i mean brandon car yeah he got burnt every now and then this year but he has been such a great pickup such a great pickup gamer god say money night football or stillers ravens game what do you mean what what are you talking about gamer god uh he said no brandon car he said brandon car is a better version of chromati no man uh oh definitely watch stillers and bingos games uh i had to take me a break from wwe for a little minute i was burnt out after surviving series i was just burnt out i had to take me a little breather a break so i aint been watching it for the past couple weeks so maybe around the end of december i might start getting back up into it again but anyway different video different story for different day but anyway um why couldn't jimmy get hurt after we played at tonio brown oh even if he would have got hurt after he would have still been suspended because that came out today yes aj style sure is you're right raven see that suspension came out today so he would have missed this stillers game either or unless he appealed well because when you appeal um your suspension doesn't start see ezequiel elliot for the 50 000 times they went back and forth with that but anyway um so yeah antonio brown uh jimmy smith is definitely he was gonna miss that game regardless but now like i said the next guy's just gotta step up that's it you sure he appealed it i thought he didn't appeal you sure he said if jimmy survived dolphins games he could be rested for four games um so yeah so with jimmy smith going forward oh it was if jimmy survived lions game he could be rested for a game that's true that's true um so yeah i did say it early and i still stand by that like raven's analysis to say would he say we're definitely gonna draft the corner early next year i think that will be smart because even though it sucks what happened to jimmy smith this is nothing new it's not a shocker it's not a surprise it's not anything that we haven't seen before jimmy smith has proven to us over and over and over great cornerback but unreliable cornerback great defensive player but you just don't be there somebody in the comment section oh i'm trying to remember their name i don't remember their name off top oh i appreciate that thank you uh quality control thank you oh we're gonna hit a million views this week oh yeah we are that's true because we were like 992 000 or 992 000 i appreciate that man thanks a lot thank you oh seriously man oh he did then he rescinded okay so there you go so he didn't he didn't end up going through it um trail blazer said do you think joe flacco should start running more well if you got open lane yeah but if he's gonna do a late slide like against kiko didn't know um but yeah what i was saying earlier too is that jimmy smith has proven that he is not reliable uh jimmy smith has proven that he's um oh gamer got healed food man he's he's he's just you can't trust him to stay on the field because even even this scene as good as he is which i love it went boom that's a volcano so yeah you're right it does go boom so what did emi sake say let me go see man okay he deleted you're gonna go again again so anyway um again shout out to carlin again um but anyway so jimmy smith has already proven that he's not reliable we can't count on him and he was already playing this year hurt now what he was playing great this year hurt he did he didn't play he didn't play four games because his Achilles was messed up you said excuse me what's up carlin you don't know that's carlin man carlin just trolling me right now that's what he's doing sports is a discussion say raven's gonna triple team eight triple team maybe oh yeah but yeah anyway um so jimmy smith somebody in the comment section of the jimmy smith uh video earlier they put i forgot who it was and i forgot what culture gm or whatever said it but they said um uh something about a player being unreliable i think they said bill parcell said let me go see if i can see it real quick y'all don't go nowhere i'm gonna come back in like two seconds literally all right thanks thanks for not going anywhere y'all appreciate y'all so um it was larry macmillan jr larry macmillan jr shout out to larry um he said that it was bill parcell said it he said the best ability is availability the best ability is availability so in jimmy smith's case he's never available or he is available sometimes but he's available so often on it's not consistent so we don't know when we're gonna get him we don't know when we're gonna lose when we don't know anything about that so it's just it's it's crazy um so i would expect them even with jimmy smith coming back you gotta prepare you got to prepare you gotta prepare as if he won't even be there because you know what's up savage you don't know if he's gonna be out or he's gonna be in you don't know what you're gonna get you don't know what you're gonna get so anyway that was that so we'll see what happens with the ravens we'll see what happens with um because going forward you know it's gonna be the talk of everything you know it's gonna be the talking ball tomorrow how are they gonna do without jimmy smith especially with antonio brown coming up juju um elie martavius bright oh boy who's gonna cover martavius bright boy yes we'll see man we'll see how this thing goes man um pat oh that pass watchers just is just that much more important that much more important but anyway i appreciate y'all thank you um i don't know what time it is i'm sure the game is gonna start is it already is it 7 30 yet we've been here for 22 minutes so let's see we'll see what happens yeah morise kennedy too man we need everybody to step up everybody got to step up brandon car more than Humphrey morise kennedy jaylen hillard dairies quib and then levine eric weddo tony jefferson chuck clark everybody everybody got to step up oh your darkest fist and morise kennedy gonna get an interception against pittsburgh that'd be nice man we'd love to we should have to court in the third round at the earliest offense is a big concern yeah you're right you're right um yeah if pittsburgh does lose tonight we do got a chance take the division but more importantly what i'm focused on i just want the ravens to win thank you this is my truck is this a truck for daddy it's a mac truck it is you're right call the noses stuff it needs to be fixed go ahead fix it there you want me to work on it all right y'all but i appreciate y'all call it look they say what's up say hi to everybody say hi he said truck i know what some of y'all gonna think caught on that part of team keep it clean that's the way he says truck but anyway thank you all for watching i appreciate y'all watching thank you very very very much um again if you know here make sure you subscribe to the youtube channel uh if you're old here make sure you stay subscribed turn your notifications on so you don't miss not one video and like my guy ryan malice says every single video make sure you leave a like on a video because it's completely free and that's it so i will see you guys i don't know what time it is so i don't know if i'll see you guys before the game again or at halftime or after the game or during the game or whatever but i see you guys and i love y'all thank you for all your support thank you for coming through and we out man we're going


Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Today we have with us Paruja Gohadhakutta and we will be discussing the 2G judgment which has come very recently in which a Raja seems to have been exonerated. Paruja, the 2G judgment seems very strange because on a case where the Supreme Court has already opined that there was a violation of the basic principles of equity through which any government property should be alienated, namely in this case the spectrum. This judgment seems to say that not only that criminal intent was not proven or the crime evidence was not strong enough, but it seems almost to have given Raja a clean chit and blamed a whole bunch of people including lack of procedures in the department of telecom. You know and this excludes of course executives of the Reliance Anil Thuramayambani group, Gautam Doshi, Spinda Pippara, Hari Nayat. It includes the promoters of Sworn Telecom, Shahid Usman, Balwa, Vinod Koenka among others. You know and there is a sinister judgment. There has been so much noise. You know Congress has been vindicated. Mr. Raja says I was right. Everybody and his brother is talking about this judgment. I think it's quite important to demystify this judgment. And let's start from the very basics. What after all are we talking about? What is second generation electromagnetic telecom spectrum? It's thin air. You know that. At the end of the day it's a scarce resource. Why? Because it's a finite resource. Across the world and also in India it's allotted by the government. Two particular, four particular uses and my particular companies. In this case private mobile telecom communications companies. This is a public property in as much as it's a scarce resource. Correct. And therefore it has to be alienated with proper procedures for public good. Correct. So because it's a matter of basic issues. The policies. First come, first serve. Was this the appropriate? I would clearly say no. And this is where justice sign is a judgment. Just sort of covers up the issues. It doesn't get into the basic issue. Like why should the government allot a scarce national resource in this manner in the manner in which cinema tickets are sold. First in the queue. The next part of the story is how even the first come first serve process was subverted was manipulated was tweaked. And finally comes the question of criminality. So I think the first part that we need to look at is though justice has given has showered the phrase on the present principle secondary to the prime minister. Mr. Dupir Dhamishta. And Dupir Dhamishta at that point of time happened to be the chairman of the telecom regulatory authority of India. It's a very, very famous paper that he put out at that point of time. Which made things a little ambivalent as to whether certain kinds of spectrum bands should be auctioned and whether it was okay to allot other bands on a first come first serve basis. The ambivalence left a lot of scope for interpretation. Too subsequently. Mr. Mishra repeatedly told the court that no he was not in favour of the manner in which the allotment took place which is first come first serve. And whatever Mr. Rajami is saying. The then prime minister Dr. Manmohan Singh. The then finance minister, the then law minister, all the bureaucrats none of them approved this policy. It was his and he pushed it. So in other words in this intervening 7 year period the market was growing at a very, very rapid pace. Now under the circumstances I don't think it can be under any circumstance it be justified what Mr. Raja did. Today Mr. Raja may claim thanks to him that the price of telecom services to ordinary consumers was low but I think nothing can be justified. Because all this happened despite the fact that the Supreme Court as you rightly pointed out in February 2012 cancelled no less than 212 licences which were controlled by roughly 11 sorry 122 licences controlled by roughly 12 corporate groups. You know this is of course one could argue that the purpose of this two judgments are different. In the case of what the Supreme Court looked at it is a question of whether the licences had been issued on the principles of equity and so on. Let us come first serve system was not the way you should have allocated. Now come to the procedures. Having gone ahead with the procedure what did you do? Between March 2006 and the end of September 2007 in this period of time you had received somewhere in the region of about well 575 applications. Now clearly there was enough spectrum for everybody and everybody knew that you couldn't but how did you go about reducing the number of applicants? What you did you kept quiet and then on the 10th of January 2008 the Department of Telecommunications issues two press releases. The first press release advances the cut of date to 25th of September thereby eliminating many of the applications and reducing the number of applications to 122. What happened that same day was even more pernicious and terrible. You issued another press release at 2.30pm and what did you say? That you have time between 3.30 and 4.30 the same day to give in your pure bank drops running into literally thousands of crores which are materialized out of nowhere. Obviously it means people had prior knowledge but the short point is you had followed a system which was corrupt to the core and it doesn't require a particularly intelligent person policy. Now here is further evidence of what she was saying. They had four parallel counters in which people were given the letters of indent. They had to collect it and based on these letters they had to rush to another place where the sequence determined what was called first to comply. That means who gave in the bank guarantees in what order decide whether they would get the spectrum or not. Now the reggae example of the ADAG group headed by invested 992 crores in this company swan but through a con there by claiming it was not an equity share but the investment was an investor. Even the so-called inter say seniority was done away with two favour particular companies like swan, like your debt, like videocon and the expense of others including Spice Telecom. Now what was truly amazing was that this was not very dented. I mean as if this was not bad enough. What Mr. Raja did was that he bypassed the recommendation. He ignored the recommendation. Not only Manmohan Singh and Chidambaram and the then finance secretary, you know Subbar Rao and the then officer of the, of the, the prime minister's office, Pulok Chatterjee. Incidentally all of them have been castigated very strangely by Judge Saini. Also he's been very, very harsh on Mr. T.S. Mathur who was telecom secretary who retired on the 31st of December 2007, 10 days before the actual allocation took place by which time Mr. Siddharth Bahura had taken over Judge's telecom secretary, the same person who had been environment secretary under Mr. Raja. But the short point that I'm making here is that an important condition, the license condition, was that you could not resell your equity or your equity. This was overruled by Mr. Raja. The result of which Edgelesat paid swan 300, 3217 crore rupees for 44.7% shares. Telenoor paid Unitec 6,210 crore rupees for equity stake of 67.3%. Tata tele-services had a deal with Dokomo of Japan which later went unstuck for very, very different reasons. The short point is, here was procedures. Even if you assume that you go ahead with what I believe was a flawed first-come, first-serve system. You even messed around with those procedures. In fact, what happens is first-come, first-served becomes first to comply in terms of getting spectrum. And as we know, license is really not the issue. Spectrum is the core of the issue because spectrum was bundled with the license. And therefore, Raja's argument that license can be given on first-come, first-served, but spectrum should be given on first to comply. This is not a procedure which had never been followed.  The first one of which, which was somewhere not very close to what the CBI alleged, was a little over 30,000 crores. The CBI amount was 30,984 crores. The highest which attracted the media attention was 176,000 crores, which was like 30 million dollars. It attracted headlines. It was one of the world's biggest scams, if not the biggest scam, etc. But wait, Mr. Raja eventually was in jail. He was spent 15 months behind bars. Kanimoi, almost six months she spent behind bars. What was Vinod Rai's fault? That he said, this is a presumptive loss. What is a presumptive loss? A loss that is presumed. It is a notional loss. Money, this, that could have come to the government, but did not come to the government. So, he became the villain of the peace and he is still being made to be the villain of the peace. But what is exactly a presumptive loss? It is a notional loss. Yes, Mr. Kapil Simbal was the then minister. He is right. It is a zero loss. Of course there is zero loss, but this is money that could have come, but did not come. Now, why was Mr. Vinod Rai's position subsequently vindicated? After 2010, there have been no less than six rounds of auction of telecommunications spectrum. And the government has received commitments for 356,000 crore worth of funds in this period. So, then Mr. Vinod Rai is right. Maybe you don't agree with 176,000 crore, but certainly the government lost a lot of money. The argument that you are saying that, okay, if you hadn't given spectrum at a lower price, then you wouldn't have been able to give telecom services at a throw away price to everybody. Again, a volatilious argument. You can serve money. Despite all that, the prices continue to come down. And they still have been coming down. So, this is absolutely nothing with Mr. Raja's logic of giving away spectrum for a song for inducting outsiders, so to say, people who had no connection with telecom, ostensibly to break her cartel, all of these arguments. Well, honestly, we must also acknowledge that justice ID is held to be an honorable judge. And we really do not seem to find what is the logic with which he blames everybody else. As you have said, all the officials who tried to stop this policy are castigated in different parts of the judgment. But the ones who led to the loss, and there is no question, as you yourself pointed out, the auction led to huge accretion of money to the extricate by virtue of the licenses and spectrum being sold. And this loss, which is now not a presumptive loss, but a loss that can be seen, all of this is not considered as something for which Mr. Raja should be held accountable. Even if Mr. Saidi finds honorable justice, Saidi finds that he is not criminally accountable. And even if the CBI has done a lousy job, you know, there is one strange issue over here. Manmohan Singh, who certainly was, could be argued is above what happened in the 2G case, also didn't really stop it. He knew what was happening. He wrote various letters, but he didn't really stop this from happening, which he could have as Prime Minister. What explains this? You know, you could not do anything about Mr. Raja's re-appointment for the second term as telecom minister. You know, all the mark is there, thanks to the Radia Conversations, it leaked out. But this rule, yes, Nira-Radia, that's right, the Nira-Radia Conversations. But I want to make a point, which is important. The second UPA government was supported by 14 DMK MPs at one point in time. The number diminished later. So yes, it was a minority government. The Communist Party didn't have a majority. So yes, there were compulsions of coalition politics. But what people conveniently forget to mention is that during the period between May 2006 and May 2011, Mr. Karunanidhi's government, in Chennai, was also a coalition government. And there were no less than 34 members of the Legislative Assembly of Tamil Nadu belonging to the Congress Party, which extended support. In other words, the point I'm making, Dr. Manmohan Singh and Dr. Karunanidhi needed each other as much as each other. So this whole logic that, you know, Dr. Manmohan Singh told Raja to be fair, to be transparent. He couldn't do anything. He was helpless because he didn't listen to it. That's an argument that's not whole water as far as I'm concerned. This is all the time we have for Newsclick today. We'll probably be discussing the 2G case more because this is not going to end here. It's going to go into appeals. It's going to go into arbitration. It's going to be probably suits filed against the government in various places. So we'll be monitoring the 2G case further. Do keep watching Newsclick and do visit our website as well as our YouTube channel.


It's a real pleasure to be here on the traditional territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Sleba-toothed people to have what is the first of its kind, which is an early learning summit sponsored by the Ministry of Education. This is something we've never done before, and judging by the size of the room, it's something that was long, long overdue. And I think we have 225 people here registered from every part of the province to participate here today in exchange ideas. And indeed it is very exciting to get the kinds of experiences that people have in this room together under one roof, to have a conversation that's long overdue, to look at the government's initiatives over many fronts on expansion of childcare, and to see what more we can do. There are indeed partnerships that haven't even been formed yet right here in this room. There are best practices that we aren't aware of between each other. And when you get peers and committed, passionate people together like we're doing today, I think the future of early learning is in very good hands. So I want to thank all of you for taking the time to be here today. And I'm really, really pleased to be joined by my colleagues, the Minister of Children and Family Development, Katrina Conroy is here. You can clap for her. And my colleague, the Minister of State for Child Care, Katrina Chen is here. And they are part of our matrilineal-ish cabinet. Listen, one of the reasons that we're here is something that we've been talking about for a long time in the education system, a statistic, I suppose, but a reality that is very sad and stark. When children come into kindergarten for the first time, when they start their learning careers, they are assessed, of course, by professional teachers. And we know that in British Columbia for a long, long time, approximately a third, it goes up and down a few percentage points each and every year, but about a third of them score on the vulnerability index that we have established here in British Columbia on at least one or more vulnerability indexes. And what that, of course, means is that children in British Columbia, from the very first day they set foot in a school, are at a disadvantage to some of their peers. And that's why we're so focused on looking at how we can make that situation much, much better for many, many more families and kids in British Columbia. And we know that we're backed by very strong research. We'll hear a lot of that today about the benefits of aligning child care with the school system. We know it improves, for example, through academic research, a child's future academic success. We know it improves social outcomes. And we also know that it is critical to a high-performing, prosperous economy to have children doing their very best and succeeding in their school careers from the earliest age possible. So we'll hear today about the return on investment to the economy when early learning experiences are of high quality. And we'll hear that from Craig Alexander and other economists who will share their perspectives and their research on jurisdictions right around the world. And it is instructive for us here in British Columbia to make those arguments all throughout society as to why this is the best investment, not just in the fairness and the justice of helping children do well, but in the benefits that all of us get as a society and as an economy. Our government is committed to investing in child care. You've seen that. We have a billion-dollar plan, one of the very first budget items we introduced as a government was around improving quality, I should say, expanding spaces and increasing affordability to ensure that child care is accessible for families in British Columbia. The ministry will continue to offer successful programs that we have like Ready, Set, Learn and Strong Start BC. We're making sure that education professionals and parents and caregivers have the knowledge required to support kids as they move forward in their K to 12 studies to reach their full potential. And I'm really excited about the work that has been done around the early learning framework, something that very many of you in this room were a critically key part of helping government achieve. Of course, this document was originally published over 10 years ago now. It was groundbreaking at the time. It helped change early years practice in BC. It offered guidance and support to education professionals and families and caregivers who were involved in early learning programs at that time. But the newly revised framework establishes a vision that I think will, there's much more forward-looking for early care and learning in British Columbia. And of course, I think many of you have the document before you. It advocates for the importance of development and learning of young children, zero to eight years of age in learning environments, whether there's strong start BC programs or primary classrooms or childcare settings, preschools and other early childhood development and child health programs. And it guides early learning programs and activities and encourages discussions with families about their child's early learning and it shapes professional development in British Columbia. The framework was revised, of course, in response to the changes that we see in British Columbia, economic, social and cultural changes in our province that had, in a way, stale dated the previous iteration of the framework. Now we have new perspectives that are long overdue in the framework. New tools, new resources to help young learners be successful. And I have to say again, I'm grateful there were 600 early child care and education stakeholders, including the BC Teachers Federation, including members of the Early Learning Framework Advisory Committee, including Indigenous partners, the First Nations Education Steering Committee, Métis Nation BC, and the BC Aboriginal Child Care Society, who contributed tremendously to the development of the new framework. So thank you to each and every one of you who gave you your time and your expertise and knowledge to get that document completed. You deserve the recognition for it and because of your hard work, the framework is now aligned with the K to 12 education curriculum. It's now a focus on children zero to eight, not just zero to five, for the first time. And importantly, it aligns with government and Canada's obligation on reconciliation by integrating Indigenous perspectives and worldviews as well as critical principles of inclusion to support children with special needs throughout from the earliest age, right through their school careers. And the document supports professional learning for early learning professionals while expanding supports for families of young children. We're receiving already national and international attention for the framework. It's making a positive difference in the lives of our province's early learners. So today, in addition to discussing the framework, we're also going to be discussing and engaging with you to see what you think about our government's plan regarding new before and after school care options on school grounds throughout British Columbia. And I see a lot of my colleagues from administration and elected office at NBC 60 school districts here. This is part of government's movement towards a universal childcare system. And the ways that we're looking at providing more access to quality before and after school care that is affordable for families in British Columbia. So we're creating a policy framework that enables boards of education to operate before and after school directly or through a licensed partner that will protect spaces that are funded to provide childcare and supports partnership agreements to emerge with operators. If I can put it like this, it's time to move beyond childcare operators on school grounds of which we have a satellite and a constellation of wonderful operators in British Columbia. But it's time to move beyond this being a landlord-tenant relationship. And it's time to move this towards a complete education community in our school system. Now there are some other resources that I want to remind people of that are having an effect in British Columbia. We have a $2.7 billion capital plan over the next three years in the Ministry of Education. Shovels are literally in the ground on 76 projects now around British Columbia. This is historic. We are building a record pace schools and additions right across British Columbia. Many of these new buildings will have neighborhood learning centers and almost all of them dedicate that space towards early childhood education and childcare spaces. Hundreds of spaces are literally under construction right now with shovels in the ground. In addition, the Ministry of Children and Family Development has already created 1,100 seats in schools through their capital program fund with thousands more on the way in the plan that is before government. We know that it's important to have childcare on school grounds. Of course it's incredibly convenient for parents who have older siblings and their family can start the day the same way in the same place. We can eliminate long distances that are sometimes traveled for after school services, but we do want to make sure that we get this right. So before we scale up and expand before and after school programs, we want to hear from you, from school districts, from education partner groups and from childcare operators, about how we best do that. It's always best to avoid mistakes before they happen. And it's always best to seek wide counsel on what those best practices look like. So we're here to learn from one another, and certainly government is here to learn from you today, and it's a tremendous opportunity for me as the Minister of Education to learn more about what you think about the proposed partnership model. Now I'm also very pleased this morning to make a funding announcement around getting things started and scaling up the efforts around childcare services as they're connected to the school system. So this morning I'm very, very pleased to announce on behalf of Premier Horgan and on behalf of my colleagues that we're investing 1.28 million to support three early learning projects that will enable school districts to better support educators to help improve the social, emotional and learning outcomes for children from birth to age eight. And to support the implementation of the new BC Early Learning Framework, grants will go out to all public school districts to support early learning educators at Strongstart BC Centers and elementary schools to participate in early learning professional development activities. In addition, the funding is going to support district capacity building through two early learning programs. Grants will be distributed to 47 school districts participating in the changing results for young children and the 12 districts that are participating in the strengthening early years to kindergarten transitions programs. The United Way of the Lower Mainland will also receive a grant as part of its involvement in changing results for young children. That program sees school districts, local communities in the United Way partner to offer learning opportunities for education professionals to support social, emotional and learning outcomes for young kids in childcare and school settings. The strengthening early years to kindergarten transition program is focused on helping school districts develop guidelines, models and partnerships with their local communities to ensure kids and families experience smooth transitions from early years to kindergarten. Again, this is getting at the heart of the problem I mentioned at the beginning of my remarks. We can't forget about those kids who are showing up in school in kindergarten and are already falling behind on day one of their school careers and that's what this is about today is strengthening the partnerships to ensure that kids are supported to the best extent possible in a province like ours and that's what we want to talk to you about today. So thank you for your time, for your energy, for your dedication to high quality early learning in British Columbia and I look forward to the discussions today and thank all the presenters, some of whom have come a very long way indeed and have a great summit today. Thank you very much.