of Silicon Valley, extracting the signal from the noise. It's theCUBE covering OpenStack, Silicon Valley 2015. Brought to you by Morantis. Now your hosts, John Furrier and Jeff Frick. Okay, welcome back everyone. We are live in Silicon Valley. This is theCUBE's Silicon Angles flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal noise. I'm John Furrier, the founder of Silicon AmJoy. Jeff Frick, who's the general manager of our CUBE operation based here in Palo Alto. We're in Mountain View at the Computer History Museum for the OpenStack SV, hashtag OpenStack SV or hashtag OSSV15, join the conversation. Our next guest is Sheng Liang. Sheng Liang, CEO of Rancher Labs. Welcome to theCUBE, hot startup in the container space. Welcome to theCUBE. Thank you very much, John. So we met at DockerCon, you were at the Mayfield party, obviously backed by Mayfield and Nexus Ventures. So you guys have a growing team. Rancher implies herding the cats or herding the sheep. I mean, I wouldn't call, I would say the developers more like bulls these days because they're really driving the innovation.  What do you guys provide? I mean, let's talk about your company. Rancher, container management, is it infrastructure, share what you guys are doing? Exactly, so we really see containers are getting adopted very quickly by developers, by DevOps team, and they're beginning to be putting production. But in order to put containers in large scale production, they need tools for that, they need management for that, they need a way to hook up the containers into the cloud infrastructure. So this is where Rancher comes in. Rancher is effectively a container management platform that let organizations put together a container service. Just yesterday, a Google container engine went GA. It's a big deal for us. It's a big deal for the industry in a sense. I think it's going to really, I know Amazon container service is also being in production for a while. I think container service is really the next generation of an application deployment platform. It's going to become very popular. And we make organization-filled container services. Shane, so I want you to share with the folks watching what you've learned in this market today. And compare that vis-a-vis your experience. You have a lot of experience with internet infrastructure. Going back to web 1.0. And now we're in this new cloud mobile internet of things like conversion, big data, massive transformation happening, completely flipped upside down. What's the big deal?  You've been in the action going back to web 1.0. What's the big, what's the epiphany? What can you share with the folks? Why is this moment in time so compelling? This is a great question. And we had a great run at cloud.com, helped hundreds of organizations build very large-scale clouds. And if you count the number of open source installations, the number is probably even bigger. But at the end of the day, one of the challenges we ran into is a lot of these clouds where they were built, they were used, but the growth is actually not as big as I would have hoped for. You know, if you look at the cloud landscape today, when cloud stack, open stack got started, we thought we turned cloud into a commodity. We thought there would be, you know, hundreds. You know, if not thousands of clouds, there'll be public, private, hybrid. And you essentially can get infrastructure resources from anywhere, right? You can get cattle from anywhere. These are cattle. But you know, when you look at the market today, still the big public cloud providers pretty much dominate. And on the private cloud side, you know, server virtualization is still probably a very big side of the market. And what we're excited about containers is finally, there's an application packaging format, an application management platform that a lot of developers are gravitating towards. So if we could kind of build cloud 2.0, you know, build a container cloud that can really consume resources from anywhere. And I think that is, and it can really support the container workload well. I think that could potentially be how the computing in the cloud industry is going to play out in the next few years. So container cloud is a great way to position it. I like to use that word. But let's take that and drill down on it. So let's take container cloud and we'll just kind of make up a new category. Gardner can now cover it. You can call it container service. Really use it. Container service, up all container cloud because it's nice, nice bound buzzword. Gardner, get on that. You know, get a new category invented on theCUBE. But what that means is containers have shown the market a path of lightweight deployment, but also traversing multiple environments. And that's the use case that developers want. They don't want to have to deal with the plumbing and the provisioning, all the hassles, all the use cases. It's like really a bad exercise for the developer. It's like a rock fetch. They don't really want to think about infrastructure anymore. Why should I go fetch rocks and create a pile, move the pile around here and there? I want to focus on the development. So that implies lightweight. What's going on under the hood? Because open stack, cloud foundry, even Amazon, which is very nice stack right now, which is lighter than those other two, we have these heavy stacks, a lot of unbaked in white space. How do you handle, what's your advice there? What's your take on that? Does it need to have lighter, is it too fat? What we're seeing is people who use containers tend to not use all the capabilities out of the underlying infrastructure cloud platform. Obviously infrastructure is essential. Containers don't really manage infrastructure, right? So you need virtualization, you need open stack, you need Amazon web services, you need Google cloud. But at some point, I mean, give you an example. One of the great things I always loved about Amazon web services is very rich AMI library. That's something open stack hasn't even caught up yet. Just the fact you can get any software package packaged up as an AMI, and then you can just deploy this very vibrant ecosystem, very good. That's easy to stand up, it's lightweight. Yeah, exactly, it's great. But then you look at containers, if you look at Docker Hub, that what really initially attracted me to Docker was that ecosystem turned out to be even bigger. I just saw Ben Golub's interview actually at DockerCon. I think maybe even on this program, he was saying something like the Docker Hub images has grown to like, I'm not sure I'm getting it wrong, but I remember it's like 150,000 images. That's just mind boggling, and it's just continued. That's just getting bigger. Yeah, but it's just a starting point, right? Docker has a long growth ahead of it, and I'm just really excited about it. You don't need a service for the service, you need a compiler just to deal with all that stuff. I mean, this takes us to a whole other level. What is that level? Can you, in your mind's eye, share what you envision that preferred architecture look like?  I mean, I think really what developers and dev ops team would really like to see is focus on application development and use containers, Docker in particular, as the standard packaging and distribution format, right? And then everywhere they go, they can rely on the fact that the Docker runtime engine exists, because the Docker runtime runs on Linux, and it's going to soon run on Windows, Microsoft has shipped the Windows 2016 tech preview, and it's starting to score Docker, so we're very excited about that, having the standard runtime, standard packaging format, distribution format, then software systems like Rancher comes in that really help orchestrate the infrastructure around it, making sure that Docker runtime and the Docker application orchestration systems like Kubernetes and Compose can really run anywhere, seamlessly, on any cloud, you can stand up these systems very quickly, and you can manage them on an ongoing basis, so that's kind of our vision. You don't, developers at the end of the day don't need to worry about infrastructure as a highly differentiated and specialized, a separate set of issues they really need to worry about today as they develop the application. So I've got to ask you the trick question now, I've been asking every guest. It's not really a trick question. Well, let me ask a quick call for you to go there, because I know you're going next, but you said earlier that the market didn't evolve in as many clouds as you thought was going to happen. Does that potentially change now with kind of the container abstraction layer, making it easy, so you don't have to worry about a myriad of kind of cloud architectures, or is it just going to standardize on these five or six, or maybe there's a couple more coming, but does container change the way that potentially many, many cloud options grow? I mean, I think containers can potentially commoditize cloud offerings to the next level. As all of us know, I think Gartner pointed out in their latest major quadrant report for infrastructure to service, basically said infrastructure to service is highly differential, it's not a commodity. And at the end of the day, developers are primarily concerned about running containers, and I would say it provides an opening. Right, it's a very small, it's all right. Okay, so here's the trick question. Does hybrid cloud really exist, or is it a concept, or is it a category, is it a product line? Do customers buy private cloud, or is it subordinate? I mean hybrid, I mean hybrid cloud. Is private cloud, public cloud? We know they exist. Yeah, I'm a believer in hybrid cloud. I always believe in hybrid cloud. But in practice, it's being a little bit difficult to implement. As you know, Amazon's been the most popular cloud, and they don't provide an on-premise solution, right? Imagine if Amazon provided an on-premise offering, I think hybrid cloud would have become more real. But again, this is where, this is in a container ecosystem, though. We don't tend to talk about hybrid clouds, but I think it's actually a very good thing because from a container, a Docker container perspective, the runtime is standardized anyway. So in essence, the differentiation between infrastructure matters less. So we kind of almost take hybrid cloud for granted. So that hybrid cloud vision, it seems to me, has a real potential of turning into reality with containers, to the extent that people don't even talk about it very much, which I find it to be very encouraging. So what's the outlook on the industry? I mean, right now there's a lot of underlying change. We're seeing Wall Street react to the China crisis. Obviously, the economic crisis in China has got people talking about the bubble bursting. Obviously, in the enterprise space, certainly cloud mobile. There's a lot of underlying change that's independent of the financial business market. So unlike the dot-com bubble, which had no underlying major transformation, it was just the web, which is the internet. I mean, it was cool, but it wasn't like massive transformation. I'm very optimistic about the space we're in, the space cloud and OpenStack and Docker and containers. I just think across the board, I mean, obviously containers are even at earlier stages of evolution than cloud, but across the board, these all represent newer and more efficient way of doing things that provide more agility. So I'm very optimistic about it. A lot of people are scratching their heads and they're still saying, hey, is there a bubble going to burst now? I've been saying, you know, you don't have to answer for me, but I want to get your perspective on this. I've been saying that there's a lot of underlying major transformation disruptive enablers that are going to create a lot of wealth, technology-wise. Gotch reversalization was a starting point.  Could you share any insight? What you think is going on under the hood at the infrastructure level that is disrupting the entire market, the wealth and the existing incumbent. What's the disruption factors in your opinion? What are the key elements of that technology disruption? What do you think are the biggest things that people aren't aware of that's to kind of calm people down a little bit? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't tend to view these things as, personally, I don't tend to view these things as sudden disruptions. These movements has been going on for a long time, right? There's just had been so many more application development organizations, and these things then tend to generate demand for tools like Docker and runtime systems like OpenStack, infrastructure management systems like OpenStack. So I think it's a continuing evolution. And I think in this, in our world, I don't see it as much of a new sort of cloud style, cloud native style disrupting the old style of infrastructure. What I honestly tend to see in large organizations where they're busily putting together software development efforts, it can barely keep up with demand. And most people don't really want to think about infrastructure. They want to get the best stuff. Well, no one's buying, I mean, people buy storage. For it to work. They're not buying it the old way. They don't think EMC versus this. Now they want. And they probably care, at the end of the day, the cost of what's really exciting to me is that if you think about an organization where the majority of the cost is going, it's probably at the end you're not going to even the infrastructure, right? It's going to paying for the salary of developers. So the fact that these new waves, whether it's DevOps or OpenStack or Container make developers more efficient, it's just going to be widely adopted. So, yeah. Or the opportunity cost of missing something in your competitor gets there fast. I mean, that's where the huge, the huge change is. So John, I'm afraid like this is less, I think Container unfortunately is less of a disruption story. Like if you say, I mean, you can make an argument that. It's an accelerant. Yeah, exactly. It's an accelerant to the other disruption, which is how people buy storage. They're not pure play anymore.  Who used to be I-Del servers for the startups and I want some EMC drives? With the developer market that's enabling this with containers and DevOps, people just want storage. There's no brand behind.  I'm seeing that's interesting trend, right? I mean, so the standalone devices. No, I mean, I think so. I think the general trend is infrastructure heading toward commoditization, right? Heading toward frameworks like OpenStack and heading toward, you know, all these vendors.  I mean, you see, I just saw a net app. Oracles here. You see the big vendors as well. I think everyone has something to contribute. And I, like I said, this is really about creating new opportunity for our whole industry. That's going to be my role. All right, final question for you, Shang. What did you learn at cloud.com that you're applying today to Rancher that's relevant in this new normal of cloud mobile, big data, social? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the one thing that really, it goes back to my original point. Back then, we built a lot of clouds. Some of them are very successful. A lot of them were not as successful. Not that these clouds were hard to build or even hard to operate. At the end of the day, they just weren't enough. Maybe they were not price right. They were not marketed right. So they weren't enough people using them, right? And I think I've seen that in other clouds as well. So build that they will come in challenge. Exactly. This is where I've really learned from the container space. The fact that so many people just come use the technology. So I would, you know, personally, I focus all my effort on how many people actually use our product. It doesn't matter if we just sell the product, but it has to lead to some consumption, right? And that's an area, you know. That's agile. That's how you, that's an agile venture. You want to see adoption. And I think, you know, I hope the industry as a whole could maybe talk, when we are at the point, we talk less about how difficult it is to install, configure and operate the technology. More about what are the tricks to actually stimulate adoption, you know? So I think that would be a very good development to have. Shane, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Great to see the entrepreneurial spirit alive.  You've got some funding behind you. Great VCs behind it. You've got a great team. Great market. Containers are exploding. You've got Kubernetes, all this orchestration happening. Absolutely. Congratulations. I hope to see you again. This is theCUBE live in Silicon Valley for the OpenStack Silicon Valley event we're broadcasting live for. This is our second day. We'll be right back after this short break.


Hello and welcome to JSA TV and JSA podcast, the leading newsroom for telecoms and data center professionals. I'm Jean-Marc Leamon joining me today. I've got Guy Wilner, CEO of iAccelerate and one of your most prominent entrepreneurs in the data center space. Guy, thank you for talking to us. How are you doing with everything that's going on in the world of the last year? Oh gosh, I don't know. I'm sort of locked down in London and running businesses on virtual at the moment. That's good. I mean, but you're running them very well. I mean, you've just announced a huge data center expansion. You had built in SACS last year before as well, joining you. I mean, there's a lot happening for the viewers that don't know you yet. Can you just tell us a little bit about yourself, where you come from, how you go into the data center space, and then just give us an overview of iAccelerate. Yeah, sure. So I've been in the industry since 1998, building data center companies started off in Western Europe, building across UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, and then we floated that on London Stock Exchange 2006 and sold it for about half a billion to Equinix in 2007. Then I got involved in TerraCo in South Africa and joined the board and invested there and we exited to Permira in 2014. I'm still very much in touch with the team. And in 2010, I started, I was invited by the European Bank to do some work in Russia to start up a data center company there. So we got that going and that's been running since. And then more recently, we started a sort of hyperscale campus in Nairobi, which we're just starting to build. That's interesting. I mean, I think what you just said, it actually, it's interesting because he sort of explains your background as well because you're showing Africa and you're showing Russia on each side of the screen. Yeah, so I got my friendly mammoth for Russia and my friendly elephant for African elephant for Kenya. So that's, that's the reason why I have a slightly odd background today. No, I mean, I love it. Let's focus on the mammoth. I've been pun intended. Let's focus on Russia now. You just announced what you claim to be, what can you is going to be one of the largest status in the campus in Europe at 200 megawatts. Let's focus through the news. I mean, what is the investment like? What's the schedule for employment? Anchor tenant, if you want to share your names. Well, Russia is a very, very big market, but it's a very underserved market. So up until about a year or two ago, there was more data center in Luxembourg than there was in the Russian Federation. Which if you think Russia's got the biggest internet market in Europe with over 100 million internet users, then that's slightly, slightly odd. So we started developing in North Moscow on a campus and expanded, expanded, expanded as customers expanded with us, but we did need a second location and it took a long time to find something that was, you know, clean with proper records and environment and all that sort of stuff because it's more difficult when you're in a sort of more interesting market like Russia. So securing clean property title or all the environmental checks and etc. It took us a long time. It took us about three years to find a decent campus. And it just so happens that the campus that we found was the old brewery for FS beer in Russia and the brewery had only been built in something like 1996, 97. So it's quite a recent construction and it's a massive chunk of land. It's like a small village. So you're planning to bring the first phase online and I mean I guess you've already got anchor tenants as well to build such a big based into the data center figures. Yeah, I'm not. I've never been so much in the real estate side to get anchor tenants to my businesses so we have at least three customers who are going to roll in there that's clear. But we've got one already signed up so I guess for the first time I will actually have anchor tenants sort of coming in rolling in from from from the from the north campus. We're hoping to get something operational by this summer because on the campus we've got some massive buildings as one one building is 26,000 square meters of warehouse. We're going to roll the 38 ton trucks in there and build out our cool walls and and and all the technology from inside. So, getting moving very quickly for a first small phase and then we've got a number of years to build out the rest. Well definitely big numbers they're going to compete with NGD in Wales for sure. Now that sounds good but I mean you've already touched on Russia and the opportunity in Russia but what are the trends you see within the Russian ladies in the space and then even Europe as a whole. Well I mean it's just typical of any what you might call emerging market is the sense that these emerging markets or whatever they're already exactly the same mobile penetration as any other emerging market. I mean I don't think you could classify Russia as an emerging market because a GDP per capita is is ahead of many European countries. But it's certainly a new markets, it's a newly developing market, and the inevitability is there'll be exactly the same amount of data center power processing, whatever in those countries in the future as there is so we're just sort of going through an equalizing situation now and that's the same for you know many many other countries so if you look more recently at Russia ozone. It's a big sort of eBay Amazon type company. So the ozone went on the NASDAQ in the US floated on NASDAQ their market cap something like $13 billion now, and they're one of, you know, quite a lot more than a dozen tech verticals in the internet in Russia.  So the Yandex being one of the biggest as well. Yeah you got Yandex you got Mel Dot Ru, you know there's a whole bunch of bunch of these companies which are not very well known outside Russia but they do tend to have you know 100 million customers. Yeah, tend to have 100 million customers as you do. Just 100 million. I mean another interesting trends. I mean I don't know if you can call it trend but we haven't really seen it that much in the data center space and then special for week. We saw the creation of two so I'm talking about this packs the special purpose acquisition company. What's your thoughts behind that I mean you're someone that's very involved in the backstage of the industry across the entire continent so. What would you think about it. What would you think I mean everybody's being approached at the moment for these vehicles and it's, it's, it was a fairly quiet processing in the US up until about 2019. And then many companies realize this is a sort of a quicker route to getting on to an exchange, maybe a quicker route to get companies that hadn't thought about being listed to get on to the market. It's not an enormous amount of money so far so few assume there's. There were about 250 SPACs until December there's probably another hundred since then, but the 250 SPACs the total money raised is less than the market cap of equinix. So the it's not it's not a phenomenal amount of money thrown at the these shelf companies yet but they're they're all sort of one shot companies it's like a it's a trolley service to get companies on to Nasdaq so it's an interesting phenomenon and it's developing now. You know you've got Mike Tobin ex telecity, who's set up a SPAC, but this time based on the Amsterdam exchange, the UK stock exchange London stock exchange is thinking of changing the rules and allowing this as well. So, I think it's an interesting moment in the history of tech, there's many many many companies that have private equity investors at the moment which would like to have a bit more freedom perhaps and and and get out onto the market so I think the time is good but we'll see you know it might well overheat. Yeah, well definitely behind that one for the for the remainder of the year and then even next year, but speaking of the rest of the end into next year I mean they're still, we're still dealing with a lot of pandemic at the moment, but why are you going to be working on over the next 1224 months beyond the expansion you just announced. Well, we've got a lot you know it's a big beast, the Moscow business, as you can see behind me. And, you know, it's, it's, we're only doing Moscow so we've got a few more buckets that we can put capital in. That could be a little bit moving out west, but maybe moving out regionally East in Russia, you know country with 11 time zones this is plenty to cover that there's 12 cities with more than a million population which is more cities than in the US. With over a million populations that's partly because it's a very urbanized population. So there's plenty, plenty to do there in Russia to grow that business further, and maybe a little bit of M&A as well. And then obviously I've got, you know, I'm going to be busy with Kenya because we're just, you know, we're negotiating with with a whole bunch of hyper clouders at the moment. So we've made our announcement and brought in Frank Hasit from Equinix who's helping us coordinate the build. It's getting very busy. I can tell and I mean Africa is a whole different conversation because it's a very exciting market. I think we're going to have to leave that one for another time but just very quickly, when can we expect to accelerate data center in Eastern do you have any state in mind or Oh, I'd love to do that. I mean it's often the problem with the data center industry is we're so so down busy, satisfying the customer expansion needs that we never really get the time to sit back and get a bit more of a helicopter view and start doing the strategic stuff. So my dream is this year we actually analyze maybe five cities across East from Moscow, from between Moscow and Vladivostok. And, you know, by the end of the year we've selected three and then we start building next year. I guess that's a sensible thing to do. I mean Ross telecoms already announced a three megawatt data center in a catering space. You know, this, this needs to happen not just by accelerate but in any sophisticated country they really need to start building our data center capacity. Yeah, no it sounds very interesting and I can't wait to see the expansion happening. But I thank you so much for joining us and thank you our viewers well for tuning in into JSA TV and JSA broadcasts. Don't forget to also check our social media channels. Until next time. Happy networking.


All right, let's get started. A very warm welcome to you all from the World Economic Forum's Summer Davos in Tianjin in China. The topic today is paying frictionless. Very excited to be moderating this panel. Brilliant panelists with us today. Before I introduce the panel, a very quick housekeeping update for the audience. Please engage with us if you're engaging, if you're watching us live. Use hashtag AMNC23. Also to say, in the last 15 minutes, we'll open the floor for Q&A. So stop thinking about your questions now. All right, so let's get started. Let me introduce you to our panelists. To my left is Professor Sebastian Claro, Professor of Economics, Universidad de los Andes. In Chile, you're also an ex-Central banker. And you were the vice president of the Central Bank of Chile until 2017. To Professor Claro's left is Jeremy Allaire, chairman and CEO of Circle Internet Financial. Your headquartered in Boston started out as a peer-to-peer payment provider and now managed stablecoins. To Jeremy's left autumn to, yeah, there is Susan. Susan Ning is managing partner of Regulatory and Compliance, King and Wood Malacens. You'll be giving us a legal perspective on today's topic. So really looking forward to that. And to Susan's left is Royal Chen, vice president, Tencent Financial Technology. Tencent is, of course, a big Chinese tech company and I'm very keen to hear from you and so is everyone else about your experience of operating in a digital payment space. So let's get this party started. I know it's about four o'clock in the afternoon here. You've all had your lunch, but we're going to make it as interactive as possible so you all don't go off to sleep. And the memo I've received is to make it conversational, dynamic, so let's jump in and talk. So if Professor Claro says something and Susan, you don't agree, please do jump in, right? And I'll try my best to keep it as dynamic as possible. So paying frictionless. We're talking about cross-border payments here, cross-border transactions. They're growing really fast. The World Economic Forum estimates this to grow from 29 trillion in 2019 to around 39 trillion as of last year. Now this is all attributed to a number of factors. There's global trade that has improved a lot over the last few years. You've got borderless e-commerce. You've got digital-driven businesses. So a lot has happened, but when you look at today, my dear panelists, when you look at where we are today, a very open-ended question for you all is, when you look at the current landscape for digital payments, what do you think? Where are we?  Sure, it's a pleasure to be here and happy to kick this off. When I look at payments today, in many ways, payments are still trapped in a pre-Internet era. Even though we use mobile payment applications, a lot of those are kind of their own walled gardens. You can pay someone who has WeChat or you can pay someone who has Venmo in the United States or if you're in a given country, there's a bank network. We don't actually have, at least quite yet, an Internet-scale model for moving value, for storing and moving value. And so really the opportunity that we saw 10 years ago when we founded Circle was this idea that we were going to see a new infrastructure layer on the Internet where value itself could be a native part of the Internet. Just like we have data and information and communications, we could actually have a native part. And in that world, which today is, I think, best expressed through things like stablecoins, which are a representation of fiat currency as digital currency, we'll move to a world where we don't think about, say, sending a cross-border email. We won't think about sending a cross-border payment. It will be instant, global, frictionless per the title of the session and the panel and interoperable in the same way we have that with the web of information and communications. And so I'm really very focused on how do we build these kind of open Internet infrastructures that connect the world economically in the same way that we've been connected with information. And so that's what I think of when I think of paying frictionless. That's great. That's very interesting. And, Roy, I want to ask you another very big business, pioneer in digital payment. Where do you think we are currently? Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. And in the past nine years, I should say that the mobile payment in China has welcomed a fast development cycle. And probably you have seen it in China, on the streets and in our daily life, even living in the towns and the village and the mobile payment is supported and you can pay anything you want in your daily life. So with a mobile phone in China, you can go without a wallet. And all the payment and QIC or the electronic ID is available in your mobile phone. And we see that in the past nine years, mobile payment in its social and commerce, in finance and its application of mobile payment is in fast development. And also we follow the pace of the Chinese people and we made this payment network globally and we support 69 countries in the regions and we support the Chinese travelers in buying, in making payment. And we try to really open up this ecosystem and to be comparable connected with the global partners. So that cross-border payment is more frictionless and more stable and the smooth. And of course, I want to say mobile payment, globally speaking, the standards is quite different. The habits, the culture is different in the mobile payment and it is up to the requirements of the regulators. Such a difference in the regulations, for example, in Europe, EU and Asia and African countries and we see some diversified local culture and the different habits of life, we need to make reflections while we show respect to the culture difference in mobile payment. On the other hand, we could see this network with an even development. They can still have a consistency service in their payment and that is a subject in front of all of us. So we want to promote the whole world to be connected. Thank you. That's great, that's a great very interesting point you said there about regulators and about habits being very different across the world. And so I think it's time to bring in the regulators then. And Susan, I look at you, where do you think we are? What's your opening remarks? Well, I actually would echo Roy's comment. I was traveling after the freedom we have after three years of pandemic situation, I flew to Japan and I was in New York for two weeks in the last two months. And I was able to use WeChat Pay or Oli Pay there, believe it or not. I was able to pay the taxi driver in Japan with my Oli Pay. I was able to pay in the outlet in New York, the Woodbury outlet with WeChat Pay. So this is just echoing what Roy was just described. But from a regulatory perspective, we would see that I'm a data protection lawyer. I would, the first idea will first concern come to my mind is how to protect the personal information that has been cross-border because of the cross-border payment. Of course, we enjoy the frictionless payment experience, but we are also concerned with our personal name, contact information, bank account, even address associated with such a bank account will be shared in which way to what extent and who will have access in that regard. This is a personal concern, but we also see that the different regulatory bodies across the globe have a different attitude or different harshness in applying their own jurisdiction or laws and regulations. Like a GDPR have a different regulation. Cloud Act has a different. In South America, you also have a different personal information protection regime. So these different jurisdiction may result in a conflicting compliance program that the enterprises will have to form where solving these conflicts could be very costly. So, and of course, costly doesn't mean necessarily only the compliance costs, but also if they are found not in compliance with local regulation, they will be fine. And that could be very heavily financial burden. That's great. Thank you. Professor Clara, you're probably looking at this from a very different lens, you know, through a policymaker as a central ex-central banker, now an economics professor. What's your take on this? So, let me talk about saying that when I think about digital payments and digitalization, I think in a revolutionary change in the way payments are done, lowering the per transaction costs. We know in economics, what does per transaction cost mean? When the cost of doing transactions is very high, people do very few and large transactions. That happens in international trade, in domestic trade. When per transaction costs are very low, people do many small transactions. Now, we tend to think that lowering per transaction costs save costs of doing transaction, which is obvious. But the main benefit of that is that lower inventories need to be held by the people doing transactions. Same thing, in my opinion, happened with money. What this lowering of per transaction costs really means is that people will need to help lower stock of liquid assets. And that is a game changer for the financial industry. So I take this perspective, because I think there are three main players, which are the central bankers, commercial banks, and non-bank institutions, called the fintech, big tech, third party platforms, whatever, that interact with each other. And commercial banks in these new settings do not have necessarily the incentives to innovate too much. But there's a pressure from outside for innovation. And this interoperability and relationship between non-bank platforms and banking, I think it's at the center of this change in the way the system is playing. Because for commercial banks, they might not only have the incentives to innovate and lower the amount of liquid assets that people have, but also because from the regulatory point of view, they put security before consumer attractiveness. And on the other hand, other players which are not as regulated as banks, put consumer attractiveness over security. And then I think the great dilemmas living aside the role of central banks and CBDCs that we could talk later on, is how to manage this trade-off between allowing for innovation outside the banking sector, pushing for open banking and the connection between these non-financial, these non-bank institutions and banks, but making sure that data security is well taken care of, consumer protection is well taken care of, and financial stability is not, is not threatened. That's great. One theme that I'm kind of seeing emerge here is how this digital payment system has to be streamlined. And it's very, very important. It's the backbone of the global economy, the backbone of global trade. But how do we do that? I think recently G20 also put sort of making, improving cross-border payments as a goal. Now my question is what kind of innovations are we seeing? What kind of innovations can be used to improve this or achieve this goal? And so I want to go to the businesses first. So Royal, if I can lean on you for this question first and then maybe go to Jeremy after. Thank you very much for your question. Talking about innovation, in my view, in the digital payment, and that is the QR code payment, that is our top innovation. And I believe worldwide we see some POS payment and FC payment, and the QR code payment is quite unique. We skip POS payment, POS machine, and we just use QR code. You know, China has a large territory and at different regions and the cost of a QR code is so low and it is available everywhere. You can use it in the cashier and also you can print it out on the paper and also you can put it in the entrance at the parking lot and by social media and we try to spread out the QR code. For example, you help others to make a purchase and the people make payment to you just scan your QR code. I see some young people just print the QR code on their t-shirt and flexibly they can use the QR code to make payment or receive payment. And I think that QR code and its application in China or in the worldwide and there could be a high innovation, very good innovation worldwide by using QR code as innovative method and a WeChat payment transferred from a social media kind of payment to quickly used by people on the streets. In a few years, we've expanded the QR code to more than 10 million merchants. So in this huge network of merchants we've found that there was micro businesses, those tendering buyers, street trolley selling tendering, they could use QR code to receive payments and that is of great benefits to them. They don't have to buy any expensive equipment. And the down payment and the first investment is extremely low and that could inspire more business activities in the society and we are also seeing the involvement of payment technologies such as the payment stereo by WeChat. For example, if you're selling fish in the wet market, you are using your hands all the time. You need to wrap up your fish to the customers so your hands are fully engaged in all kinds of activities. You're not able to receive payments or even use QR codes. Now we have that the stereo, payment stereo. You only use your voice and you could hear whether the payment is made or not because the stereo will announce that to you and add the exact amount of that payment. So it's very easy payment process as long as you serve your customers well, as long as you could deliver the merchants to your mercantises to your customers. It will be a frictionless process, no hassles at all for the payment process currently in China. Such a huge and convenient payment network. Today our topic is frictionless cross-border payment so we would like to open that network to other places. Early in 2019 we've conducted trial experiments in some merchants, those who sell railway tickets, those who help clients to book hotel rooms, we've opened those networks to international credit card organisations to support foreigners who travel in China to use WeChat. But there are not very many merchants because of the pandemic influence and that hinder international traffic and exchange. In the middle to late July, WeChat payment shall start to expand that network again. Supported by regulators in China, we shall open up further our payment network to visa and other credit card international organisations. Foreigners who travel in China to use their credit cards issued by their own country to tie that with your WeChat account. And then you could experience frictionless payment process. No difference at all compared with Chinese citizens. And there are more and more sports events recovering in China. And friends from all countries are coming to China. I want to go to the other panellists as well. This is very interesting what you just mentioned about opening up WeChat to the rest of the world as well. Thank you very much for that. And I think what you just said about consumers and how it's made life very easy for consumers, that's exactly what I think we want to be able to translate to businesses. And Jeremy would love to get your perspective on that because at the moment it's still very tough for businesses to be able to transfer money from one place to the other, especially small and medium-sized businesses. You're still waiting for up to 10 days, really, sometimes for payment to show up. That eats into your revenue. So we want to bring you in as well to get a sense of how innovation can actually help us achieve that goal. Sure. Maybe I'll start with just some of the building blocks. So our approach, I think, is very different, which is what we've built is what's called a stablecoin. And the stablecoin that we issue is a US dollar stablecoin called USDC. It's regulated similar to other payments companies in the United States, so it has many of the same regulations around it, but it functions really differently. When a business comes to Circle, they take traditional money from a bank account and they deposit that. And then we issue digital currency tokens that then instead of being tied to a specific wallet application, they work on the public internet. And so you can take those and you can send and receive them to any digital wallet. And similar to today, if I sign up for an email account with one company, I don't worry about whether someone else has the same email service. Blockchains are basically a public network that allows for interoperable exchange of value. And so this digital currency model, just in the past several years, has grown enormously. We've issued and redeemed over $600 billion US dollar coins, USDC, and on blockchains, we've supported over $11 trillion in transactions. What's amazing is that because this is borderless and frictionless, any business anywhere in the world can just download a piece of software or a digital wallet that's compatible with blockchain networks and transact directly peer to peer without an intermediary. And so if I'm a business, I can actually directly transact to a business, say, in Malaysia or in Colombia or in Turkey or wherever you are. And the transfers happen at the speed of the internet. Right now, USDC can transfer with what's called settlement finality with final settlement as fast as 500 milliseconds with the transaction cost of about a penny. Sometimes even less, the average transaction can be around $0.02 or $0.03. And it doesn't matter the size. So if you have a small payment of $10, you can make that same payment with the speed of the internet, with that cost anywhere in the world. But it also can be used for very large transactions. So we have very large digital kind of electronic markets companies that sometimes will move $300 million in a single transaction or more. And so it's a very scalable model. It's an interoperable model that's built on the public internet. And I think for people, SMEs, especially individuals, the freedom to transact on the internet, it feels very natural.  I just communicate. And so once people start using digital currency like this, it's a kind of freedom that is hard to put back. And so this is proliferating because this is all built on open source software. Anyone can build a piece of software compatible with blockchains. There's thousands and thousands of digital wallets that have cropped up and are growing. Big mainstream companies like Grab or PayPal are connecting to these blockchain networks. And so we're getting to a place, and I think we'll see this in the next couple of years, where most of the major digital wallets in the world will connect to blockchain networks. And then you'll have real interoperability. And that will work for businesses. It'll work for individuals. And there are many other promises to this. I think in the business context, one of the really powerful things about these networks is not only can you make transactions, you can actually write contracts. So you can write a business contract. That business contract could be related to payment terms. It could be related to a loan against an invoice. It could be a contract tied to performing a labor function. Whatever it is, those contracts can be written in code and then can be deployed onto these networks and enforced by software and in an open, global way. And so the promise of this for commerce, in our views, is exponential compared to what we have today in today's financial system, which is very kind of in these stovepipes separated, et cetera. So we're looking at a world where business payments, peer-to-peer payments, business remittances, international remittances, where the price will go to zero and the velocity of data on the internet and the scale will be internet scale. And I don't think we've even fathomed yet what we're going to be able to do with that. But that's what we're seeing happen today. And again, there's only hundreds of millions of people dealing with this today. But I think the technology of blockchains is just now reaching a point where it can support billions of people in the coming years. And then we start to have real internet scale financial transactions in a way that I think will surprise a lot of us. That's great. So we've got from a consumer perspective, from a business perspective, things are moving very fast. There's lots of innovation happening, but I can see some alarm bells around me. So I want to bring Susan, you in, because for lawyers, this means that there is more checks and balances in place.  When you hear this innovation, what do you think? What are you thinking about right now? Yeah, since everyone is talking about innovation and creative payment methodologies, as Professor Claro has rightly pointed out about the issue of banking institutions versus the so-called third party platform or non-banking institutions, the interactive and the interoperability are important from a regulatory perspective. Who is responsible for what? Like regarding the issue like an opening account, verification of the account user and also who is giving the payment order if there is something around just in case of shutdown, let's say, especially when we're talking internet scale. Then who is responsible for some missing transactions or mistaken transactions? So this is like as a legal professional, I would pay much attention in this regard. Of course, anti-money laundering, you see the traditional banking institutions indeed, they are imposed on happy duties regarding security, anti-money laundering, et cetera, while the so-called new payment institution is a third party like a VChat Alipay. They may please the customers as a priority versus the so-called security issue. So how to balance? Of course, enchanting the customers, the consumers, it's like a lifeline for a business, but security is also especially for financial institutions. This is actually an issue that legislative bodies should really strive for, the efforts for. And I think like from legal perspective, I will see that in China we always say let the bullet fly for the moment, especially addressing the situation where the practice, the industry practice, go much faster than the legislative bodies movement. So I think for this industry, probably this is also true. Let the practice develop for a moment and see how the regulatory bodies react and also how international organizations, treaties, like agreements could also reach at like a higher level, which we're still waiting.  So let's see how we can reach to that level. Yeah, Professor Clara, would you like to wait? Two dimensions maybe of the regulatory discussion, one is the one Susan was pointing out, which is how to establish an adequate equilibrium between innovation and financial stability, so to speak. For example, in some places, Chile is one, when there is a security breach and there is a payment that was not asked for, mandated by the customer, through one of these platforms, it is the bank that needs to respond to the customer and then the bank needs to go back to the third-party platform to ask for the money back. But the third-party platform might not even have the solvency record to respond for that. So I think this is one of the most difficult issues, same thing with consumer data, et cetera. A different thing is regarding the cryptocurrencies, stable currencies world. And there, I tend to think for the good or for the bad that central banks are very aware and nervous. And I think probably central banking currencies are going to expand probably significantly in the next few years to try to avoid these currencies to win the game, so to speak. There are good reasons in terms of financial stability for that. But especially, and these are very different perspectives, maybe, from a macroeconomic perspective. When you have a business cycle, demand for liquidity changes because a risk perception has changed, then there is a need for the money supply to change very aggressively. Central banks, maybe they do it right in some opportunities. Maybe they do it badly. But they have the control of this money supply. Some, maybe not all, and maybe I'm losing part of the story, some of these alternative monies have kind of an exogenous supply of money to give them credibility. But at the same time, they weaken significantly the way the business cycle can be managed. And so hence, my view is that central banks are probably going to push harder in favor of the digitalization of their own currencies, bringing into the regulatory framework non-banking financial institutions probably with much stronger regulation to offer businesses and consumers access to, so to speak, central bank accounts, easing the speed of transactions and avoiding a system which goes beyond their influence. That's very interesting you say that, because recently, I think Federal Reserve Chair, Jerome Powell said that he acknowledged stable coins as a digital currency, and he said that the Fed wants complete oversight, which they want to roll. And I'm very keen to hear from you all whether you think this would open doors for more central banks to follow. Jeremy, I see you are agreeing with me. Would you like to jump in? Sure, we're very close to this topic. Right now, the United States Congress is discussing a new set of regulations over the private issuance of digital dollars. And so USDC is an example of that. And there's also been discussion about central bank digital currency in the United States, but it's been rejected. In fact, in the same testimony, Chairman Powell said we are not moving forward with central bank digital currency. Chairman Powell also said we need to provide clear rules around private sector innovation through digital dollars and stable coins. Secretary Yellen, who I know will be here in China soon, similarly is advocating. And the US Treasury Department at the FSB at a global level has really said the priority now is regulating this sector. But I think the result to build on what was shared, the result is actually building a model where the base layer of money is very safe. So you have digital dollars where the assets that back them are held with the central bank or in things like government bonds, short government bonds. And then you have something that everyone on the internet, every user, every business will know. This is a cash equivalent instrument. And then you have the traditional central bank oversight. But it's different than commercial bank money. When you give money to a commercial bank, they take the money and then they leverage it and they multiply it by 12 times on average and they take risk with it. And that introduces systemic risk and financial stability risk. It has us other benefits as well, but it introduces this risk. And then from time to time, every 10 years, every 20 years, you have bank failures, you have bank runs and then you have huge bailouts and so on. And so stable coins provide a way to have a base layer of money that is very close to the central bank. And so you're not changing monetary policy. But with the benefit of instead of the government being responsible for developing software, deploying network, running technology, you allow bank and non-bank companies to actually drive the technological innovation and to be constantly upgrading that technology. Because as we see, whether it's with AI or blockchains or other things, the pace of technological improvement is constant. It's by the week, it's by the month. You can't expect governments to keep that pace. So you have to have this public-private partnership and preserve the role of the central bank, but also unleash the entrepreneurship, the theme of the conference, and innovation in these areas. I think Tencent is actually a tremendous example of doing exactly that. And it's interesting in China, there is a central bank digital currency. It's not very popular. WeChat Pay and Alipay are popular. And so even in a market where the government has prioritized a central bank digital currency, the private sector innovation, voice-activated payments, whatever they're coming up with next, this is really catalyzing the innovation cycle. That's very interesting. Professor Clara, what do you think are the challenges with something like that if more central banks start to follow with the Fed taking the lead? I fully agree. And maybe I was not clear enough on saying that this discussion on central bank digital currencies, that not necessarily substitute away the role that the public sector, that the private sector might have on the development of that. Indeed, one of the risks of development of these central bank digital currencies is to take away all the funds from the financial sector and from the commercial banks. And that would be very bad for the country and for the way the central bank would like to work. So it is a design that mixes the role of central banks and the development of private sector, which is probably going to move forward. There is a recent report by the Bank of England a couple of months ago, maybe February 2023, that points in that direction, I think. A different story, though, is the original cryptocurrencies, which, to some extent, do not fit into this model. But I tend to agree that it is a mix of private participation and central bank participation that would probably move forward. Otherwise, the risks for the central bank are very high on dealing with thousands of payments, millions of consumers and payments. That is not their business. They don't know how to do it. And would substitute the role of commercial banks that is neither their intention, I guess. That's very interesting. I want to move on quickly, because I know we're running out of time soon, but talk about digital divide a bit more. And you're all stakeholders here. And one of the things that innovation brings is, of course, it brings generational divide, but it also exacerbates income inequality. And I wrote a story a couple of weeks ago about how AI is just getting out of control. And it's difficult to keep track of what's going on. And that's leading to this divide that's coming between generations, between socioeconomic groups as well. And so as stakeholders, how do you think you can all come together to fight this inequality, growing inequality, that more and more of this digital revolution will bring in? Royal, do you want to weigh in? Thank you. Thank you very much. It is true. We have been aware in technology, in application, the regions are not on the same pace, and they have differences. And Tyson always put users, consumers, in centrality. And we want to do the good things. And in 2016, we have ran it application in Hong Kong. In our observation, we see some Philippine employee working in Hong Kong. Every week, they only have one day off for rest. They need to queue up for every hour to wire the payment to their hometown. After reading the newspaper, we believe such our AI is so low. We come up with, we remit payment functions. So these, they go to 7-Eleven, the convenience shop. They can have, they have e-money. You can transfer back to their hometown. And we are used to it in China. We think it's nothing, nothing interesting. But they can get money at the hometown to from the shop at their hometown. And they can go to the shop. And they can go to the pawn shop. And they can get it. And this kind of culture difference, we are able to minimize the divide. And many Chinese people working overseas, they learn overseas. And many overseas Chinese want to wire payment back to China. And we support, support over 20, something such a remedy and a wise international payment company. And as they transfer foreign currency and after transfer, and as they send the message, we call a share link sent to WeChat. WeChat, you click it. You don't need to fill in your account number. No more QIC information. It is being there in WeChat. And their family member can receive the payment on WeChat. And our vision is that cross-border payment could be as easy as a text message. Why we are able to do it? Because we can integrate several networks together. At the same time, we show respect to the habits of the users. You know, they chat on WeChat. And next, they still send the payment, click on it, and they can use it on it. And that is bundled together. And that is quite good overseas payment network with the domestic payment network in China in this year. And we can have a global network, may not be a network of networks. We call it one plus one plus one. And the three one models, one is a local network. The other one is a local lifestyle overseas in between Visa or the union pay and the payment company in between. And these several networks could be organically interplay with each other. So you don't need to care who help you on the network. But anyway, the console backward is very complicated. But user experience is still very high like they used to. We have good experience. We have equity. And in our view in the future, under this global network, and there should be a open, inclusive, and equal and every company could share and could create and use it together, low cost global network is possible. Thank you. Thank you. Susan, do you want to weigh in? I want to also open it up to the floor, but would you like to weigh in? I think what Roy just described is really amazing. We have so much used to for daily life using AliPay or WeChat Pay on daily consumption. But I also noticed from your description of the story regarding Philippine Nannies in Hong Kong remitting back to home and recollected from the stores or whatever. This is a revolutionary to daily life. People's daily life, this is a revolutionary. But what I would like to comment is that this is so convenient for so-called foreign currency exchanges, which has been very much a hurdle, used to be at least, you know, like for transmission or crossing the border, especially as a Chinese, we have endured that for many years. AliPay, WeChat Pay, they have solved this. And on the basis that we even don't have to notice that, no matter from China to outside, outside to China. This is very amazing. But also, I think like just now the new two gentlemen also mentioned that the digital currency. For digital currency, I think it's of a central bank thing. At least from a China perspective, I just want to contribute from China perspective because a digital currency would consider, at least, you know, announced by Chinese government. It's a currency to R&B. It's a legal currency. It's like a one dollar to one dollar to a currency, Chinese R&B legal currency. So it suggests, you know, R&B in digital form. If you don't have Southern R&B, you don't have one, you can't transmit it to your e-wallet into the so-called the e-currency. But, you know, of course, for e-currency, the settlement needs to be settled not only by the banking system, but also the third party so-called platform as well. So the e-settlement is also, shall also be prevailing. So that's why, in China, we don't, I shouldn't say we don't care, but, you know, like, because we have the methodology of payment by banking, by non-banking, and the currency is like a e-currency where R&B in paper form, it is the same. So that may be why the e-currency in China is not that popular because it's just one to one to R&B who cares to that extent. That's a great point. I know Jeremy wanted to say something and then we'll open the floor. I want to discuss the question around financial inclusion and sort of the all economic rungs on the ladder. And that's a really core part of the thesis and what we're working on today. Some of the very fastest growing uses for USDC are in emerging markets. Very specifically, people who work in one place who want to send funds very, very efficiently to people in other places. The demand is high, not just to get it and receive it and get it in local currency. There's actually demand for dollars. And so digital dollars are a very in-demand thing. If you're in Colombia or you're in Turkey or you're in the Philippines, I think you're interested in receiving funds but also storing value in a less volatile currency. So that's important economically as well when you see currencies that are struggling, people's value being destroyed. That's important. But we now have literally through various digital wallets the ability to deliver funds, very small funds directly to cash out locations in almost every country in the world, which is very powerful. The other is we're even solving problems when people don't have bank accounts, don't even have access to an e-money system. And so for example, we've partnered with the United Nations, the High Commission for Refugees to solve a really hard problem, which is war victims who are refugees who don't have access to their financial system anymore and who need to receive aid. And so we've worked with the UN to distribute aid in the form of USDC directly to digital wallets that people can just get with their smartphone. And then they can take it to whatever country they're in and conveniently take out cash as well. And so really solving for the people who have the hardest problems is core to what we're working on. That's great. I'm going to open it up to the two questions and I know the gentleman there has a question. Yeah, thank you. I think amazing panel and thank you for your fantastic insights. I have three questions. Oh, could you summarize them into one please? Absolutely, very good. The KYC side, especially for the digital wallets in most countries. Everything is still reliant on a card.  So any thoughts how that's going to emerge? Question to Jeremy on web 3.0, the market infrastructure, especially for retail payments. How do you see that in the coming three to five years? And question to Clara on consumer protection and transparency. The kind of data, whether it is governments or whether it is these payment wallets are gathering in terms of every precision payment that's being done by an individual. With the generated where they can curate a clone, a digital avatar of mine, knowing exactly where do I go, what do I spend on and so on and so forth. And consumers are largely not aware of that. So what are the thoughts from a regulation perspective? So let's go KYC web 3.0 and data. Roy, let's start with you. I think KYC is a global conundrum. Now, there are so many foreigners coming to China, they want to make payment in China and they're faced with that difficulty. There is this ID verification in China for Chinese residents. Residents, however, not for foreigners to know whether it's fake or not. So we use manpower to verify whether there is a PIC using different information points. And that also has some conflict to data privacy and information protection of different countries and regions because some data could not be referenced by us. And that conflict will be here with us for a certain period of time. We could streamline the process, however, the process could not be accepted by all regions and countries. And so there might be a tolerated method coming up discussed by different regulators. Essentially, when people talk about web 3, it's really referring to the use of these blockchain networks for different kinds of data or applications and then connecting people's identity or wallets or other things to that. The infrastructure is maturing very fast and I think the way we think about it is in two areas. The first is just making the infrastructure kind of invisible to the users. People don't want to know about what blockchain am I using. They don't want to know about crypto wallets. They just want to have an application and interact and use it. And so a lot of the work right now is really taking the blockchain and making it disappear so that you're using a wallet. You're using a game. You're using a consumer internet application. And behind the scenes, just like we don't think about using TCP IP, the protocols of the internet. We don't think about using the HTTP, the web protocol. This needs to go into the background. And so there's a lot of focus on that user experience, making this simple, accessible, scalable. We're working on that web 3 infrastructure products. And that transition, I think, is happening. And based on what we see at least the usability for a billion or 2 billion users of web 3 technology is something that will emerge over the next approximately two years. Great. Professor Clara. Thank you very briefly. Of course, the consumer protection issue is critical. And maybe we need to distinguish two things, one. One is what are the standards that should be set? But secondly, who supervises that? For this whole world of non-banking financial institutions, FinTech, their fight is for being very lightly regulated because they are the innovators. And I tend to understand that perspective. But that cannot be at the expense of making sure that data is very much protected. And here comes a discussion on the, or it is related to the issue of integration and inequality. Because many of the people that come suffer more from bridges in their protection of consumer data are the poor people. Their data can be eventually not well used, et cetera. So the supervisors, in my experience, tend to, at this stage, avoid too much interference in these companies. And so it is not only that the standards are not necessarily clear in many countries, but there is still no agency that is very much aware of its responsibility towards taking care of this consumer data. Great. Let's get another question. I think there's somebody behind me. Yes. So a question to Jeremy and Royal relating to capital controls. Royal mentioned this for foreigners to pay in China, which is very helpful. I recently also used WeChat to pay in Hong Kong. I'm just wondering, for Chinese, we have this 50,000 limit of what we can pay with the capital control of China. Can we pay above that amount in Hong Kong for the mainlanders? And for Jeremy, you all mentioned this after this zero cost, almost immediate payment across borders. Can you do that for countries like China which have capital control? Thanks. Royal, would you like to go first and then maybe Jeremy after? OK. I must say something on behalf of the Foreign Exchange Bureau of China, 50,000 US dollar has confused a lot, actually. On WeChat, you could pay tuition fee. Tuition fee per year overseas is around 200,000 USD and that's not accounted to the 50,000 USD limit. Even when we transfer funds from Hong Kong to mainland, that's not accounted into 50,000 USD. The limit of 50,000 USD, meaning the fund without any intention, you have nothing as evidence to prove it's something that you need to pay or receive. So that's something I must clarify for the Foreign Exchange Bureau. So it's not a big hurdle. If you have evidence, you're actually buying something or paying something with legitimate purpose, it's not restricted. Thank you. Sure. I think a couple of things. First is that digital currencies on blockchains sort of exist everywhere. The internet exists and so, of course, everyone is aware that people can use these digital wallets in China. But in China, there's a very strict set of regulations that don't allow payment companies, banks, or any other financial institution to interact with the crypto companies or with those networks. That's currently the situation. And so even if someone had a stablecoin or a Bitcoin or something in China, they would have to use a non-legal means to have it interact with the financial system. And so it's not a convenient way to do that. I think, of course, Hong Kong is becoming more open to the use of this technology and beginning to regulate it. And I think as things like digital identity and verified identities can work with these digital wallets, maybe that will open the door to using this technology on the mainland, but I think we're still some time away from that. That's great. I think you had a question. Yes, a short one. Related to the gentleman over there, the question is more fundamental, actually. If we talk about cross-border friction as payment, I think my question is at the end of the day, we're still all going back to the banking system. Am I right? We're still into the SWIFT, the Euroclear, right? When we talk about dollar to dollar, yes, we can go frictionless, but when we go to cross-border, what is the end game? How do you see this to be happening later on? I'll try and take part of that and yield as well. So what's really interesting is that with USDC, people who receive it around the world, many of the digital wallets actually have partnerships with the card networks. So they actually have partnerships with companies like Visa or MasterCard. So instead of taking the digital currency and moving it out into the banking system, the card networks will let you actually use that stored value, the digital currency, to make a payment to a merchant. And then in turn, Visa and MasterCard, both they have partnerships with Circle, they'll receive the settlement using USDC as well. So someone might have USDC in a wallet, in a country, make a payment, and then that issuer basically sends the payment back to a MasterCard or a Visa using USDC as a settlement rail. And so I think the point is that as more and more value is stored and held in these digital currency forms, it will stay in the digital currency forms and does not need to be redeemed into local bank money. Well, we have two minutes, so I wanna kind of tie into what the gentleman asked and my final concluding question. So concluding thoughts from you all, you've got 30 seconds each. Let's get the central bankers, the commercial banks, the fintechs, the regulators, lawyers, everyone in a room. I just want to be a fly on the wall in that room. What next? What are the next steps from here? So 30 seconds each. Let's start with you, Professor Clarke. Unfortunately, because in the last 20 years we have lived through a very bumpy period of financial stability, I think all the discussion nowadays is very much oriented toward protecting stability in the financial sector. Naturally, that comes as a cost and that cost to some extent is innovation. But I expect there's a hope that at some point we will be willing to manage well that trade off and taking care of financial stability make use of these innovations because they cannot be avoided, actually. Okay, Jeremy. Yeah, I think very simply, I think if you have all those stakeholders together, I think the important thing is everyone wants responsible innovation. They want to allow innovation to flourish and they want the innovators to also take account of the risks. And so I think finding that balance, everyone trying to find that balance of maybe you can't think through every risk and manage every risk, but taking a risk-based approach where you apply the amount of regulation based on the scale of the technology adoption. Susan. I actually echo 100% of what Jeremy says. So I could agree. Yeah, royal. Payment will no longer be just payment. Digital currency or your solar or bank card or the balance of your digital wallet, they all represent credit. And there will be some conflict due to varied of cultures. And how could the regions be inclusive and open up? And that is the true problem behind the payment. Thank you. Thank you very much to our panelists. Please give a huge round of applause to our brilliant panelists today. Thank you. And thank you to the audience. Thank you.


Hey everybody, it's Craig Matty here and in this video I'm going to show you how to get Aria Lexa colors under your Panasonic GH5 V-Log footage. All right, let's get started. All right, here we are in Adobe Premiere Pro and I'm going to show you a lot that really does a good job of improving the color of V-Log footage and I think it does a great job on skin tones as well. So I'll just walk you through this really quickly and then I'll show you a graded clip of these. So this is shot in V-Log and I've got a couple different scenes. I have sort of a bright sky there and a cloudy day then I have a brighter day here in the shade and then I have some bright sort of sunlight there. Then also you can see this is sort of a backlit type of scene and then I have some indoor shots here as well. This is from Photo Plus and I've got some different skin tones that you can look at and some different colors. So I want to show you this LUT first. Now this is a LUT that converts your GH5 V-Log footage to Arri Alexa type colors. Now this is a paid LUT unfortunately. I'm not paid to tell you about this. This isn't a sponsored video.  So I'm not profiting from this or anything. I'm just sort of sharing this information with you. It's up to you if you decide to purchase it. That's just up to you. Now also too when you use this LUT there's an Arri generator. I'll put links to these in the description box below and you would just set it like this if you wanted to generate the Arri LUT. You just say Source Format, Log C, Video, Arri 709, 3D LUT and then what happens is this LUT here converts your GH5 V-Log to an Arri Alexa type of C-Log and then you would use the Arri LUT to get the Arri colors. So that's how it works. Now a couple of tips. I think it's important to get accurate exposure. So if there's a person in the scene I think it's important that you expose for the skin because how it works is the dynamic range in our eyes is probably 20 stops but your camera, the Panasonic GH5, I'm not exactly sure what the dynamic range is. Maybe it's 10, maybe it's 11 stops in V-Log and it's just not enough to capture the entire scene.  So I would say to you if you're going to have people in your shot then put the focus on getting a good exposure on them. So some of these things I actually know and don't always do on every shoot just out of laziness. But for now on I'm going to be using my light meter. So I have the Soconic 478D. Now this works for video really well. They have some newer ones as well. You can check out those as well but this is the one that I use. So if there's a newer version then you might want to check that out. But how it works is you set your ISO. So say you're shooting on the Panasonic GH5 and V-Log that's 400 is your native ISO then you put your shutter speed which would be 50. If you're shooting 24 frames per second and then it'll tell you say f5, 6, f8 you set your camera to that you're going to get an accurate exposure on the person. Now also I suggest using the X-Rite Video Color Checker. So I have this one here in the middle. They have three different sizes. I have this one. So you can do a custom white balance with your Panasonic GH5. I've got a video about that. I'll put a link to that video in the description box below. You can check that out if you don't know how to do a custom white balance. And then you take a shot of this card on location and then you can just use the eyedropper tool in Adobe. So if you're looking at the top here if you go to the color then you have all your color grading tools.   But it's good to do a custom white balance for different scenes. So for example if you're shooting and it's sort of this gray color and you're in the shade then do a custom white balance for that. Then if you move to another scene where you're in the sun then do a custom white balance for that and then also take a shot of that card because it's really about getting the best white balance you can in camera and then having a shot of this card as well. Now you should also calibrate your display monitor. So I'm using an iMac. I use the i1 Display Pro to calibrate my monitor so that I know that the colors that I'm getting on the shoot are accurate when I'm looking at my monitor as well. So those are the things that you should have. You should have this. You should have a calibrated monitor. You should have something like this passport. The other side is gray. So you shoot the gray card with the scene properly lit and like I said you can use a light meter or you can use your zebras or your waveform monitor. Just make sure that you have an accurate exposure for what you want to capture. So if it's people then make sure that they're accurately exposed. So those are just a few tips right there. So let's go back to the timeline. Alright so let's have a look at some of this V-LOG footage in the different layers. So when you buy the emote of color light you also get this conversion light for 8-bit or 10-bit. Now according to Alex the creator of the emote of color light he thinks that Adobe Premiere changes the color of your footage. So he has some conversions here for 8-bit or 10-bit.  So that's the first thing you apply is that conversion light. And then he has a conversion light here for daylight and for tungsten. So if you're shooting mostly outdoors then just buy the daylight one. If you're shooting mostly indoors then get the tungsten one or if you can do both it's up to you. So this converts your GH5 footage your V-LOG GH5 to the Aurealexo Log C format. So that's the first step. Now the next step is if you go to the creative tab you can apply two different ones here. Then you go to this one now that LUT generator I talked about. This is the LUT that you would generate using that. And then this converts your footage to go from the Log C to Rec 709. So now I'm going to enable all these so you can see it. So the first thing you're not going to see is that 8-bit or 10-bit conversion light. The second thing you can see I'm enabling the RE conversion and then this third one is just some exposure and contrast adjustments on the top layer. So I recommend using adjustment layers for different things and then you can see I have this one split so I'm just doing all my exposure and contrast adjustments on top of everything else.  You can see there's the V-LOG and then you can see there's the LUT applied. So very little work on my part. Once I apply that LUT I'll just click here and you can see if I go to my basic corrections up here. I've just left the white balance at zero and then I think I raised the exposure on this shot and the shadows a little bit because it was kind of backlit. But you can see the skin tones look pretty good. What I'll do is I'll run through this clip full screen so you can see it and then we'll come back. Okay so we're back and I'm just going to walk you through some of this footage. You can see that the colors look pretty good. The skin tones look natural. They don't look really oversaturated. They don't look too orange. You can see we've got different lighting scenarios here. The greens don't look over-processed. I mean everything to me looks really well balanced. Sometimes you'll find that certain colors are oversaturated but I find it's giving you a pleasing balance of colors. And you can see here these indoor colors look better and I've taken more care with the exposure and I did a custom white balance. So those first outdoor shots that you saw, I didn't do a custom white balance. Alls I did was set it to 5600 Kelvin just because sometimes it's easier. Although in the future I'm going to take a custom white balance for each lighting scenario whether I move to the sun or the shade. So although I knew that I was just cutting corners. Alright so anyway I did a custom white balance for these shots at Photo Plus and I also paid more attention to my exposure. So you can see these shots look a lot better. You can see the colors look a lot richer. You can see the greens. You can see the browns. You can see the tans. The whites. You can see the colors just look really good. Now here this is a little bit more difficult because we had the bright lights and we had the white background. But you can see her skin tone does look natural. If anything I probably could have taken down the exposure a little bit when I shot this. But you can see even in the background the yellows they look good. The whites look good. Now here's another scene with some greens and some blues. And it's gotten me excited about the colors in V-Log for the first time. I think they look really good in my opinion. I've always seen people have really nice GH5 footage and I've never been able to capture colors like the ones I've seen. So now you can confidently use V-Log when shooting if you know that you're using this light. At least that's how I feel about it anyway. And then here's an outdoor scene again too. And like I said if I turn these off you could see the V-Log footage is just very flat. So it really makes things a lot easier. You just throw the LUT on and then you make a few fine adjustments. Now also I suggest making sure that you have your Lumetri scopes. So this is your waveform on the left, your vector scope, and then you have your RGB. If you don't see these if you right click or if you just click here the little wrench there look down here at the wrench. You could see you just click on these and you can add things. So I've added the histogram there. I'm going to take that off. You can add different scopes to help you do some color grading. So this is in the color grading tutorial but hopefully all these tips combined help you to get better GH5 V-Log footage in the future. Alright if you found this video helpful give me a thumbs up for this video and if you're not already a subscriber make sure you hit that subscribe button. Also hit that bell notification so you get email updates of my future videos. If you have any comments or questions you can post them down below. Also feel free to share this video. Just look below this video click on share and you can share it on the web with your fellow photographers. Alright thanks again for watching this video give me a thumbs up and I'll see you in the next one.


for the month of November doing another art journal page on an oversized playing card now I've been doing these all year and I just wanted to let you all know you can get these big playing cards in a lot of different places. I know I've seen them every time I've been to Las Vegas. I've seen them in the gift shops all over the place. I will put an Amazon link where you can get them in the description below. I got these from my friend Cindy Utter. You do when you buy them get a pack of 52 like regular playing cards and if you're going to do something like mixed media on them you probably don't need that many so I would suggest maybe splitting them with one or two friends like we did. Okay so I wanted to do something celebrating the year I was born. I did not want to have to paint my face again so I am going to start by collaging my face onto the card. I printed out a photo of myself really large so that I could just collage it onto the card with some gel medium. I do recommend you give the cards a light sanding or with lighter medium grit sandpaper sorry finer medium grit sandpaper and then wipe it off and then use pva glue or gel medium to collage down onto the card and if you're going to paint on the card give it a nice coat of gesso first and let it dry. So once I had that on here then it was just a matter of cleaning up my mess making sure the image was in the gel medium all the way and letting it dry before we go forward. Now in 1963 which is the year I was born is the year that John F. Kennedy was assassinated. He was assassinated a couple of months after I was born. I was born in August. The cost of living in the United States was very inexpensive. The average household income was five thousand eight hundred and seven dollars a year and the cost of the average house it was twelve thousand six hundred and fifty significant changes from the current costs. Gas was twenty nine cents a gallon and a loaf of bread cost twenty two cents. I miss those days. The biggest news of the year of course was John F. Kennedy being assassinated. The Caribbean was hit by Hurricane Flora. Alcatraz penitentiary in San Francisco was closed and the Beatles released I want to hold your hand. So those are some of the many things that happened in 1963 and one thing I didn't know was the USSR put the first woman in space. Good for them. And there was a big scandal involving one of the people from the House of Commons John Profumo. I'm sure I butchered that he had an affair with somebody that he shouldn't have. Anyway it's a big thing here on thepeoplehistory.com. So I went and did some research about the things I wanted to attach to my card regarding the year I was born and I wanted to of course add a little bit of an artistic something to the photo that I collaged on there and I did of course trim the edges as you saw and I did ink them a little bit. I'm using some of my favorite big pens and things to just add some fun artistic marks and one of my lettering stencils to add the year that I was born 1963. I printed out some of the facts about the year on a piece of just regular printer paper. Now both of the image and the facts are printed on a standard HP inkjet printer. They are not anything special. You just need to make sure when you use images and printing from an inkjet printer with standard ink that you don't get the front surface too wet because the ink will run and that you make sure it's really dry. So that's really the only trick. I haven't had too much problem with it not staying dry. So that being said we are using I believe if I'm not mistaken that might be a feud ball pen in my hand because it has a bigger nib. I can't honestly really tell from the photo and I don't remember. One of my many I just I just grabbed one that worked. That's not a bit crystal it's something else from my stash. Fun fact this video was filmed in my old studio in California before removed. It was filmed around June July somewhere in there. I am now going to cut out the texts regarding the fun facts from 63 that I wanted to save and I am going to arrange them on the page in a way. I don't want to cover up my face necessarily but I want to use the text to add to the page in an artistic sort of way or graphic sort of way. So we've got them cut out here and I'm going to use just a Yoohoo glue stick. One of my favorite things to glue especially printer things from my printer down on my artwork. It's also fun and quick and easy and you don't have to wait for things to dry which I really I have no patience. I have the patience of a nap. Just fun fact about me. I should have put that on the page. Anyway there it is and it's looking really good. I am going to outline the sections with a pen. This is a paper mate inkjoy and you know the other one might have been a paper mate pen also. I don't think it was though. I think it was a feud ball. This is a paper mate inkjoy. Easy things from the office supply store. I don't generally have lots of hard to find supplies. I do put some journaling on the page. My thoughts on the year that I was born and myself. You can put anything on there. Have fun with it. Explore yourself and the year you were born and don't forget to go out and do something nice for yourself because you deserve it. Also liking sharing and subscribing would be super helpful. There are two more videos like this. I'm going to re-edit and I'm going to air soon. One of them involves the last page for the month of the year and another one involves a fun storage container for them. So if you want to do something like this of course you could do it on card stop, chipboard. You don't have to use a playing card. So have fun with it. Explore it and I will see you in the next video.


Hey guys, welcome back to my channel. So today's a really nice day outside It's like only 30 degrees and I wanted to show you guys my beautiful morning routine that I do to put on this face every day And yes, it's this face because I have so many okay So my first step is pulling back my hair because we don't want anything to get on it if you know what I mean So let me just take my headband Okay, our next step is exfoliating since it's winter and nice and chilly I'm going to take candy cane crushed up with a hammer and just scrub it out my face It should feel really minty like someone is mildly scarling you or you just have like a million ants biting your face because that's what's Going to get our circulation next take your candy cane color cloth Oh, that's a mouthful and then just wipe it all off. All right. Now that we're exfoliated. Wait, hold on Wait, hold on. That's not blood.  That smells good Wait for the wax to model bit and just rub that in as a moisturizer should burn a ton But don't worry candles are known to have lots of waxes and essential oils It'll help make your skin moisturize for this cold winter's day. Now that our face is complete It's time to get the rest of it done take a festive string and wrap it around your neck as a scarf Is it functional? No, is it comfortable? No, but it's winter theme and my never told me that I had to do this I'll still take away my adsense money So now just take some earrings to complete the rest of our face Also, I was forced to do this so and our final step is the outfit take your most wintery sweater You can find and just put it on also keep the same ahead if you want to show your Christmas spirit Or if you want to keep your job on YouTube, all right That's all I have for you today. If you enjoyed make sure to click that like button leave a comment down below and subscribe I'm so desperate. Oh my god. I'm depressed. I love you guys, and I'll see you next time. Bye. I I Literally don't know what I was the app. Yeah, I don't know where I was going with this video It's not like this is definitely a parody the scarf feels horrible Like can you hear this scarf? It feels horrible. Also, I have a new mic So if it sounds any different, let me know. I don't know how to use it So someone was good at this tell me trust me my neck is forever destroyed now because of this also I know I go to the extreme sometimes in my face And I didn't do the candy canes this time because I know I would have actually bled and it wasn't blood It was ketchup that I put on my face. This is proof right here. I don't want to put ketchup not sponsored by ketchup by the way But actually These earrings aren't so bad, but I know you guys missed a lot of my fuckery videos So to kick off the new year besides that video before that we were not gonna mention We're gonna kick it off with a parody video because you guys love it when I do beauty guru Frederick But her name is actually Starbucks. Um, and this is the last time you're gonna see they send a hat because literally It's not Christmas anymore.