Welcome back to the AI for good global summits here in Geneva. We're at the ITU headquarters and there's a lot of activity behind me. A lot of participants, around 500. So if you hear some background noise, that's because there's a lot of interaction going on and connections about how we can actually move forward on some of those UN sustainable development goals. I'm joined now by Paul Lee. Now you're the founder of Mind.ai. Correct, yes. What brings you here? So we wanted to get the word out at UN and we were invited as VIP guests. We wanted to tell the world and let everyone know that we think we've cracked the first surface of AGI, which is artificial general intelligence. What's that about? So when people talk about AI these days, we talk about neural networks, the deep mind, the alpha-goes, but they're in all narrow disciplines. And the way AGI works is the algorithm works for all domains, multiple disciplines. So whether it's drug discovery, whether it's for personal secretary or finance, it can be applicable for all different domains. Why have you come here though? What are you looking for here? So the main thing is that we want to change the paradigm. Everyone talks about how, in my opinion, the current AI is nothing but a super calculator. It does a lot of calculations. It needs a lot of data. But once you have a new symbolic paradigm like our algorithm, which we call the unit of reasoning, it doesn't need that much data. It needs rules that are common sense data that we can get from around the world. Are we ready for that? We definitely are, and we should be. And I believe artificial general intelligence is like electricity. Do we need electricity? But we've done fine without AI until now. We have. We have indeed. But I believe it's another step and another step to move humanity forward. I mean, we were working fine. We were surviving without electricity. But with electricity, it powered computers. It gave us light. But we're actually on. You're in territory here. We're about pushing sustainable development goals forward. How does what you do fit in with that? I think the most important thing is safe and secure AI. So how are we going to make an AI that's going to impact humanity, but in a safe and secure way? So how do we do that? And that's why we've introduced our product, Mind AI, so that there can be regulations and help from the U.I. to help us move forward. OK. Well, Paulie, thanks very much. Thanks very much. And what is a very busy day here in Active Behind Me is a lot of exhibitors showing off some of their robots to their participants here. So it's a buzzing atmosphere. Thank you again. Thank you so much.


Good afternoon, everyone. I hope everyone had a good lunch and not too much food coma out there, but I'll try my best to keep you awake and engaged. So, yes, Andrew Coppin, Managing Director of FarmBot, we're one of the old ag techs around. The company started about five years ago and it's a case of, for me it's a case of I liked it so much I bought the company. I was an early stage investor in the company. Telstra asked me to have a look at it because for my sins I grew up in the Kimberley, chasing bulls around on horseback and they said, Coppo, you must know something about this. Can you please come and have a look? So, after a 20-plus year career in corporate finance and funds management, I'm now running a really exciting ag tech, such as my conviction that this is a really, really interesting space. So, I'll tell you a little about our story today, let you know a little bit about where we're going and also happy to talk about the broader adoption of ag tech and how I see that as one of the, you know, veterans in the ag tech sphere, not just because I've got gray hair and I'm also one of the founding directors of the Australian Agritech Association, which has been set up to try and help people better navigate ag tech, both from the investors coming to Australia, don't know where to go and the farmers coming off the paddock. It's hard to navigate ag tech, so it's so great to see a good turnout here today and the interest being so high. So, our proposition at FarmBot was that, you know, which won't surprise any of the primary producers in the room and shouldn't surprise anyone, that, you know, water is the lifeblood of all agriculture. Nothing happens without it and yet in some ways we sort of treat water with a bit of contempt, maybe because it comes from the sky or under the ground and there's this sort of perception in some areas that it's free, but we decided, hang on, what if we really manage water closely? What would we know? And surprise, surprise, five years and millions of data points later, what we're working at is when you look at the granularity of water as an input in agriculture, you can learn a lot. A lot more than just driving up to the tank and going, have I got water or don't I? Or, you know, when I've got it, I won't worry about it and when I haven't got it, I'll pray for it, which is not a great strategy I've found. Because, you know, every farmer, I've never met a farmer, if you're the one I haven't met yet, put up your hand, that his first thought of the day isn't about sort of weather and water.  And what we found is that most of the, where are we going? Most of the alternatives to managing water are pretty antiquated. You know, right on any given day in Australia, there's 10,000 people driving around to check water that probably in many instances does not need checking. Now, I can hear the old school saying, yeah, but we do a lot of other things while we're going around. And that is true. We are not advocates for get rid of Bob the Borman. We're advocates for allocating resources where you need to, when you need to. And also for gathering data in real time. Unfortunately, no matter who does the ball run, there's nothing to say that as you're driving away from that tank that the pipe doesn't burst an hour later. We don't know these things, but with the adoption of new technology, we can start to remove the costs of the huge cost associated with monitoring water and also put in far better mechanisms for gathering real time data. And that's that's been our thing is to look at a cost effective data rich solution that can provide certainty. And the thing that we hear the most from our customers is that we're giving them peace of mind.  I'm like, I don't know. Why would we be doing that? And what we've learned is there's so much angst and stress. The primary producers carry around worrying about water because they can't see it and they don't know what's happening when they're not there. Arguably, there might be some people in the room right now who are wondering what's happening in the back paddock while they're in town today. So we created a device. It's the one you see on the tank there called the Farmbot Monitor. And it's the it's the core device in our portfolio of Internet of Things devices. It's it's real time. It gathers data on your water ecosystem and alerts you of changes in your water ecosystem. And by that, I say that the machine learns how the tank and or dam or turkey's nest operates over time and gets progressively smarter in forecasting what should happen next. And if what should happen next isn't what happens because the water falls too fast, goes up too fast, or does something that it doesn't normally do, it can send you an email or a text message telling you exactly what is happening. So to this end, we've now got people that are waking up in the morning all around Australia checking 10, 20, 50, some 100 more watering points on their phone or on their laptop over a cup of tea. And then they're allocating where their resource, their human resources should go and what they should do, which is a very far cry from what the old school method is. So you know, obviously providing them with complete certainty, better decision making for forecasting about what I'm going to do and where I'm going to move things in the future. And you know, relative to driving around, it's a ridiculous cost saving for for most. So we did this, you know, pragmatic solution, which gets us on to the farm and starts the conversation. And a lot of people said to me copper water monitoring, I mean, hasn't that been done to death? And I'm like, Well, maybe, but you know, we've adopted an approach of consumer electronics. If we can't put it in a box, send it to someone, have them install it on their own in five minutes. And then it works reliably for for all of a foreseeable future. And we say our device is good for seven years. Then I don't think that has been done before because previous iterations of this require directing towers, technical support and a whole bunch of other expensive things that only came after the fact. And our view is where our relationship starts with our customers, the day they install the device, not it doesn't end that day, it starts that day. Because to us, it's all about the data. It's all about what information are we learning about the the water ecosystem where we can serve up actionable insights to the farmers that are using it. Not just things like, Hey, your pipes burst at 1130 on a Friday night, which they do, it's either Friday nights or birthdays, I'm not sure. But you know, the most inconvenient times when these things happen. And, you know, that that's obvious. The the weight losses that are incurred from animals being off, water and getting stressed, and all those obvious things. But we're also now looking at large data sets where we can start saying, Hang on, if this happens, event X happens on Wednesday and event Y happens on Fridays, 98% of the time, this other event happens on Sundays. So we're actually data mining huge pools of data about water ecosystems, which will lead into the much sort after sort of precision grazing outcomes that everyone's been talking about for a long time, but not delivering. And I'll talk more about that in a minute. So we've now got this this chart was put together a few weeks ago, it's now redundant already. We've got over 2000 units, we're selling about 250 to 300 month at the moment. And so we're growing strongly. I think today's figure is closer to two and a half thousand, all around Australia. And we've adopted a sort of satellite first communications view. So whilst we are comms agnostic, and we have devices that use satellite or 4G or MBIOT, we think the best solution for us more often than not, and also the future of where this is all going to go, is going to come from the sky. So we're probably not massive advocates of setting up huge arrays and towers and other things, because you've got great firms out of Adelaide here, like myriota and fleet, and others all around the world that are going to throw up lots of low earth orbit satellites that are going to give us access to real time data, and all of that infrastructure in all probability will become redundant and not the best use. I hasten to add there are some areas where it's appropriate, but for what we're focused on, which is water and livestock, we have yet to see a business case where it makes sense. So typically, a client of ours will log in in the morning and they can look at multiple different views. This is a typical property where they've got a number of different water points and at a glance, they can just look at how much water have I got. Now, if any one of those were in an alert mode because there was less water or falling water too fast or whatever, it'd be red and then they can drill down and click through on that and drill down and look at it. Other people like to look at charts and get a feel for what's going on in their water ecosystem and they can drill down on all of that, other sorts of insights. And out of this comes things like draw down times on bores. We're picking up information that where many users are sucking air on bores and running pumps, which means wear and tear on machinery, or alternatively on the far side there, you can see, you know, we clearly knew that this water ecosystem was going to run out. And, you know, this is not something that you can just know by driving to check water.  So therefore you need to do X, Y or Z. And again, this is sending alerts to the user. So I'll show you a short video from one of a typical scenario that we deal with. And then I'll come back to you. My name is Matt Wood. I'm the manager of Glyner Station, which is located about 150km east of Derby. We run 24,000 Brahmin cattle over around just shy of million acres. In a normal summer day in the north, an adult equivalent will consume 50 litres of water a day. So that means I'm chasing a million litres of water to live it into my troughs over about 90 different watering points every day. And cattle don't care if it's Sunday or public holiday or if it's someone's birthday. They need water every day, all day. We've been using farm bot tank level monitors for three years now and saved us hugely in a variety of different ways. Like a float falls off the trough and we lose a turkey nest of water or a beast breaks a pipe. We know there's a serious incident within an hour and we're able to respond before it turns into a drama. We're able to go out there and deal with it ASAP. And that's huge in this sort of scale of station. I've recommended farm bot to many neighbours and many friends. I look colleagues in the industry and I'll continue to do so. We found the service really good. Seriously cheap insurance on probably the most important part of our business and that's water for livestock. So as some of you may know, Glyner, that cattle station is actually one of Jumbuck's properties, a company that's based out of here in Adelaide who are great adopters of early technology. So that's a typical scenario but we have monitors operating in Tasmania, Victoria and right here on your doorstop in Adelaide. The issues are different for different people. Obviously the tyranny of distance, the amount of labour, the amount of fuel, the wear and tear on vehicles in a large cattle station operation is well known. But yet there's still people driving around checking a lot of water. What we find closer to home here is people wanting to just know what's happening when they're in the city or when they're on a holiday or when they've got staff out there checking water that are they checking what they should be checking. We've got heaps of examples that have been sent to us by our customers. This is one from in the Northern Territory with a user that had four units and he sent us, his name's Dan Lynch, he sent us his own assessment of, look Coppo, I've got four of these units and here's my P&L on the devices. I think they've saved me over 20,000 bucks a year from what I was doing in the past. So we started with this water monitoring piece, which obviously is still a huge challenge for agriculture the world over. But that's really just our sort of Amazon sells books moment. Jeff Bezos knew selling books to people would be, and if he could do it really, really well, he'd earn the right to sell books, lots of other things to people. And as we all know today, Amazon's one of the biggest retailers in the world. So for us, you know, our our solving the water management problem on farm is the beginning of a discussion, as I mentioned with our customers, not the end of it. We're not into just booting hardware and then not turning up. We're actually into here is a really, really robust reliable device. What else can we do with it? So we've now started on a customer led innovation program, which is building out our ecosystem to the extent that now over 53% of all of our customers have a rain gauge attached to their farm bot, which again takes the data from the rain gauge and again, zips it up to the satellite or to the 4G or MBOT, whatever the comms is, and sends it back to the laptop or mobile. We've got an increasing number of people now that are using pressure and flow monitors. I know that's a big issue here in South Australia where people are paying for water. And if they get leaks and they're losing water and be a very, very expensive pastime. So we're monitoring pressure and flow within the water ecosystem. We've got people using the device as an SOS button where they get their staff to check in when they get to every water tank, and then check out when they leave. Alternatively, there's a red panic button at every water tank that allows them to say, you know, I need help here now because we all know there's a lot of injuries and deaths in the agricultural sector. Not something we should be proud of, but we've got to do more to look after our people when they're working in remote areas. And some of the other really interesting things we're working on, which we'll be launching sort of mid this year, include the ability to activate pumps remotely. So to turn pumps on and off from your mobile phone when you've got an alert, to take a photo when you need a photo in real time. So when you get an alert to be able to take a photo of your trough or the however you set the camera up. And other electric fence monitoring and trough monitoring are all things that we have got in trial at the moment. Most of them on trial up at Ramani on the MLA digital farm project. Again, with all of those things for us, a key point of differentiation. And I'll talk more about this in your thinking about adoption of AgT is that all of our devices are real time. And so in our mind, you're not actually in the Internet of Things if you aren't real time. Some people have a different view of that. But if you think about it, you know, we need to know when we've got an issue, when we've got the issue. If you've only got, you know, a report once a day, and one day it happens to get missed, or it's one day at a set time. I don't know about you, but those newsletters that I get every day at a set time are normally become the last thing I read if I'm short on time. And given I've never met a farmer who has time spare time on their hands, I think the farmers need to know when there's a problem, when there's a problem, so they can act on it. So all of our things are real time reporting, not something that happens once a day. There are different use cases where once a day may be perfectly okay. But we've found when we're working with livestock, especially in remote areas, we need to know when we need to know. It's the same as if I just send you a photo every day at 8am, I guarantee you after a few weeks you'll stop looking at it, because the first few weeks there's nothing, you'll just stop looking at it. But when you do need a photo is when you get an alert that something's wrong in your water ecosystem, and you want to take the photo right then and there and go, oh yes, there is a dead cow in the trough, or the pipe has burst, or the float has been broken, or whatever the scenario is. So we think the adoption of technology in real time reporting is a really super critical thing. Where this all goes, but for us and for others is, and maybe the quest that everyone's trying to work out in this space is, what's the infrastructure for the internet of things? What's the infrastructure I need on my property to do all of these things? Because one thing is sure, you don't want seven apps to run the farm. You don't want to pay seven different people for what we call backhaul, the communications from the paddock back to your desktop. So people will have to make choices around what sort of technology they want to use. And again, it will be different strokes for different folks. It won't all be, satellite first won't always be the best option. It's the option we've taken, but we'd use the F4G and MBIOT and Laura in some instances. And in other circumstances, there'll be other more appropriate forms of comms. But we actually see farm bot as part of the infrastructure for IoT. We're collaborating with a whole bunch of different people in this sector. I think AgriWeb's presenting next door. We've got APIs with them, Maya Grazing, different people looking at soil moisture, a gate opening, a variety of different things where we can collate that data and again, send it back to the user in a form and in a format they want. Because the device is there, it's sitting on a tank, it's unassisted, it's on its own power for seven years. If it's transmitting to a satellite or to F4G, putting additional data in that and sending it to where it wants to go is not a complicated thing to do in most circumstances. So again, for us, it's about real-time data resulting in actionable insights. We don't use the word data on the farm because data, just plethora of information, I think everyone's got data overload. The only thing that's important is what is the data telling me that would allow me to run my business better? That's the only bit that people really want to know and we're mining all of our data to look at what can we learn from these water ecosystems that will be helpful for farming community to know and to act on that will allow for them to be more productive and more sustainable in their enterprise. You can't, unfortunately, just grow what you like with what you wish you had. You need to grow what you've got with what you've got and these sort of tools will allow us to do that. Which plays out to this big picture that's been talked about for a long time but as even without my farm bot hat on and my Agritech Australia Association hat on and all of you here today and the great startups here today and the great technology that is moving us ever closer to this, you know, how long, how many, what do I have to do, how do I optimise all of my assets and inputs on my farm to get my optimum return? And when I look at the data that we're generating and I merge that with climate and weather, I might merge that with my virtual fencing or my geo tagging, I'm 100% confident we will get to, you know, the right answer for this paddock is, you know, 44 days, 8 hours and 15 minutes, unless otherwise advised. So if it rains, you'll have options. Do you extend the time or do you increase the carrying capacity? All of those variables happening in real time to inform people about their decisions. That's where it's all going and I think it's a super exciting space. We've got a good team, there's about 20 of us at FarmBot, as I mentioned, been around for quite a long time and we're working with a lot of great sponsors who are helping distribute our product and, you know, be remiss of me not to mention elders who have been great supporters of this event and who are great supporters of us and, you know, they distribute FarmBot products around the country. So I'll wind up there with five minutes of Q&A to go.


So here we go the Y versus Delta. So I've got my Y system here and one of the reasons why we can tell it's a Y is Funny enough. It looks like a Y. These are my that my Transformers are my windings you could call them and it looks like a Y over here they have the Delta system and It's the reason why they call it Delta is it's shaped like the Greek symbol Delta So I've not that's basically the only reason why you can understand why they call it Delta looked into it And that's what I came up with Y systems some advantages of the Y systems.  I should have named those one two or three or A, B and C. I Have these windings each winding is 120 degrees out of phase with the other winding. All right So they're 120 degrees difference and that's big now when we are dealing with these that tells us that we have two Different voltages available to us with a Y system. Okay, now I know a lot of you guys have got this theory down pat But again, this is just a broad overview. So don't sit there and go crazy if I get something a little off here Now we have the nice advantage of having the Y system is this neutral It allows us to have two different voltages because we can have our line to line voltage Just like we have and we have a center tapped single phase system We have a line to line voltage, but then we also have a line to neutral voltage Now if this is a single phase system, and this is 120 volts and this is 120 volts My line to line voltage would be 120 volts, right? That's fairly obvious However, because these are 120 degrees separated from each other, you can't just add these guys up You have to add them up vectorially not Arithmetic is what I tell my students. So I would have to take this guy and say, okay It's 120 volts at you could say negative 30 degrees plus 120 volts at 90 degrees to get your line to line voltage Which works out to be in this case if you have 120 and 120, it's 208 So you have 208 volts sound familiar. You have 208 volts. So some advantages of this Let me let me just actually move on to the next slide here Now when we're dealing with this you have your E line Which is line to line is equal to root 3 Times e phase that's a quick way working it out instead. I happen to do all that Trigonometry you can just use the root 3 which is 1.732 times that by the e phase which is 120 And that's where we get our 208 from now our current again just to say this 120 vectorally with 120 gives us 208 our current However, it's going to be in series with this and current in series doesn't change So our I line equals our I phase now this adds to let's talk about some advantages. I got my notes here Some advantages of why now you can have two voltages, which is nice You can bring three phase in and you could have single phase available to you. There's that you have your neutral point Which is generally grounded. I should have put a ground on here, but that's star point Sometimes it's called a star point is grounded It's good for unbalanced loads It requires less number of turns in the Delta's Tight because you have a lower voltage here You're using this voltage plus this voltage instead of having one winding having to carry all the line voltage And you have less insulation too because this voltage is going to be lower But you can still get the 208 safely out of that. So it's very very Useful that way and you see them a lot on the if you have a Delta Y system It's they they use this to get the two voltages out of it very common in buildings commercial and industrial You'll see that some of the disadvantages are if it's if you've got a Y connected motor you get less torque out of it And it's a little more expensive. So that's your Y connection Now this could be for distribution and you notice I've got that the coils here or you can have it set up as a load I could have had a resistor load here. You can have loads set up in Y as well Again, this is just a quick overview. I can go in on forever and ever about this now This is the Delta system the Delta system is a bit different than the Y in the fact that you don't if you notice line to line Here is just across a phase So your line and your phase voltage are the same voltage So this is a hundred and twenty volts your line to line is a hundred and twenty volts So there's that the difference is your currents because if you have your currents here You have your phase current coming up to this point and this phase current come up to this point And they meet at a node and then they go into the line That's where you have to use that route three because again We have to add them victorily because you can't just say this guy plus this guy equals your current You got this guy coming it at an angle this guy coming in hot at another angle. So you're going to get a different Current so if you look at this here your E line equals E phase, which is very true It's your current that changes now some of the advantages for a Delta system is the motor torque It's got high motor torque. You can handle it because it's got a higher current it can handle. It's more efficient The protection is generally fairly simple. They're set up for heavy-duty applications. They're great for transmissions You'll often see them set up as a Delta Y transformer When you are sending them across lines in for transmission They prefer to have the Delta configuration even though the current might be a little higher because you only require three wires Now there are you can't get you can get the high leg when you talk about the high leg Delta You can actually tap this and ground it and have two voltages. You'd actually have three voltages present again I'm not going to get into that. That'll be another voltage or another video for another day The disadvantage to this guy though is it has no neutral. So it's just line-to-line You can't get two voltages out of this generally you can like I said with that high leg one But we're not going to talk about that another downside to this is that ground faults are really difficult to detect Because you don't have that grounded point So they can be a bit of a nightmare to work on Anybody that's worked in the plant knows that you connect you have a ground fault detection system That just indicates which phase it's on then you got to go looking for it. I've done that I've worked I've spent days trying to track down ground faults in a plant that I worked out a styrofoam manufacturing plant back What else they're really they're really useful for distribution for that reason because you have three wires not four So you save some money on that So see if I've covered all my notes here Some motors just as a note they'll have these soft starters. So they're gonna start a motor They'll start it in Y and then they'll move it up to Delta because you've got a lower current in Y and a higher current in Delta So they they call them soft starts a Y Delta soft starter again Maybe I'll do a video on why Delta soft starters later on in this in the year here So that's just generally basically just a quick overview of what they do and what the systems are that again The difference generally is just the shape and the way they're set up the Y has got that neutral into it So it act makes it very useful. You can have two different voltages out of that It's generally going to be on the second area of your transformer. The primary will generally be a Delta Now I'm not saying there's not a wide Delta transformers It's just more common to see a Delta Y configuration of a transformer And I think that's about all I wanted to really touch on today Yeah, so hopefully you guys got something out of this. I'm just gonna get rid of this Guy right here. Let's just escape him and I'm gonna call the video up here So hopefully I'd help you guys. Hopefully I answered I can't remember. I think it was Anthony that asked the question Hopefully I know it was really not a ton of information Just kind of a light skim over of the difference between a Y and Delta If there's anything else you guys want, let me know If you're wanting me to do a more in-depth one on this like getting into the math and all that Let me know because I'll do plan on building one of this But if there is a demand for it, I will build a proper one like I do if you go to my YouTube channel I've built a ton of them on there So if you go to my YouTube channel You see the kind of work I've done before if you want something more in-depth on three-phase like behind the math and I hookups and all that I can do a whole three-phase series because that's what it would take This is just once again just a brief overview of that. Make sure you stop by the site check out www.TheElectricAcademy.com Make sure you sign up for the newsletter I send one out every Wednesday and it's just keeps you guys in the know what's going on with the Electric Academy With things that are coming up articles if I've got some blog entries that are doing well I usually post them on there as well. Hey, thanks Tim and Josh good to see you guys and Just keep the requests coming. I've been loving this. It's been so great I've been talking to tons of you guys through email and How do you check any kind of industrial motor? That's a great question one. There's another one that goes into the bank then So we'll have to talk about that Yeah, I'm gonna put that on my list right now before I forget just so you guys can see that I actually do write this stuff down. I have been having a blast interacting with you guys Keep the emails coming. Please keep the direct messages coming. Please. I Love talking to you guys. I love helping you out. I love I love doing all the research on this I've learned some stuff just on this one. I've worked a bit with the three-phase stuff, but I don't teach it a lot yet So it's good to kind of brush up on that. So please keep those comments. I really appreciate all the feedback Hopefully you guys are having a great day. I'm having a fantastic day getting ready to start coaching as my son's soccer team I talked to my co-coach. He's five years old So that should be interesting my 14 year old starts hockey tomorrow So it's gonna be very busy this fall, but that's why we're in it. We love it as parents Okay, have a great night guys. I will have probably another one of these I'll probably do another one on maybe a quick one tomorrow as well Maybe not set something so technical. Maybe just more of a rant. I got something lined up. You're gonna love it I know I did. All right. Hope you guys are working safe. And yes, I definitely will want make sure you join the Join the Facebook group at least or join the newsletter Just go to the Electric Academy comm and join that newsletter man And then you'll know when they're coming up I'll start scheduling these a little more and like, you know, what's happening and what I've got lined up So I think that'd be a little bit more interesting and useful to you guys You work for the government. I gotta go Just kidding Canadian or American I guess would be the question. I'm Canadian, but that doesn't mean I don't know about the American government So we'll see. Good luck to all you guys down in Florida. Holy man. That is quite some Storm you got coming your way. So please Stay safe and You guys who are out on the field stay safe Juan. I'll be in touch And make sure you hook up with me on facebook send me a message about more what you want to know And I'll go with that. All right guys. Have a great night. This has been fun and work safe


We are sajanas in this land. Karibu sana inafo. I think it just caught my attention. It reminded me what I was reading from my Bible this morning. You're welcome. How's your money? My money is going well so far. You look lovely. Thank you too. How did you start music? I always love to sing. I'm a great singer when I'm doing domestic shows or something when there is no audience. But now I have gone and written and recorded some music and I'm still continuing. I started writing in November last year and I recorded in May four songs. Then I recorded another one in August and I have recorded a Christmas song and will be out soon. How's the journey been throughout the different songs? Writing and singing is fun but it's also a serious business because when you're doing gospel you want to pass on an authentic message to people and you also want to encourage somebody and you need to invest some time and to meditate on the word of God and invest some money. So how different have you found now that of course there's a starting point there's that place where you said this is the place where now I am starting to do music commercially and then there's that part where you're saying you used to sing in the house so how have you, what are some of the things you've learnt or rather what's what's some of the things you've picked up that's so different from when you were shooting music out there? Yes, that you need other resource persons and people who are also sold out into the gospel of Christ so that they can guide you, they can produce your music they can also guide you on doing a video like the one we were just seeing and you need to just interact with other people who've been there it would help if you did so that they tell you you are likely to find this haddo or that haddo I think for me it was just a major step of faith I just dipped both legs into it and I decided at some time I can write a song let me start writing so there was a bit of ignorance also in my part of just going in like that Amazing, everyone started somewhere so it's okay So what was the very first experience with music you had? Recording music or just I was a singer in the choir So as a child I loved to sing singing in church I've grown up in the church setup and then when I came to Nairobi to work I was singing in a choir for 4 to 5 years that's when I learned that singing is also preaching and so you want to not just sound good but also have some content I think it's something the media challenges us every now and then have some content in your song So speaking of content thank you for bringing that up what message of course it's gospel so it edifies the body of Christ but what message is usually packed in your music encouragement and information reminders Yes What do you create a process like in terms of writing? I have to search my mind for what I have learned from my Bible studies alone and from my experiences in life and then I also now have probably an inspired idea or a title and I work with what I have in my head and also research from the Bible and from other even other people's experiences because in our daily lives we interact with people Yes, other Christians Yes So who influences your music? Just the gospel of Christ the scripture as it is written and the teachers who have been there in my life they are people who have gone to school to study theology and they are the people who mentor us our pastors our ministers they have mentored us through journeys and so it's a lot of things combined together If you were to host a an artist this question takes me to the question of who do you look up to in terms of music Yes Here in Kenya or just Wherever you want to pick I like Sisi Weynance because she's been singing for a long time and I've always found her music inspiring Here in Kenya we have a lot of people I have someone who sings in Kiswahili and he's such a strong man of God called Amos Mugambi and they put scripture in their songs and a lot of others I think the Kenyan gospel industry is thriving there's a lot of there's a lot of exposure Do you do performances? No, no I haven't done any performances I'm quite new like my first video full video was out in August that's barely three months ago two, three months Yes, so I'm like a new kid on the block I'm very new in this It is well everyone gets start somewhere Everyone starts somewhere you get a platform you move on and so I'm looking forward to seeing a lot of you somewhere So, given that you're calling yourself a new kid a new kid in the block What are some of the things that you anticipate you will go through in the musical journey What are you expecting? I'm expecting to share the gospel because I love to share devotion just share the word of God I like to preach here and there I'm not a minister as such I have a full-time career full-time employed but when I get a chance I like to share the word of God and that's what I'm hoping to keep doing in music and I feel that it's a good forum because you can reach just anybody even people you don't know it's not as limited as having a congregation sitting in one place and I'm looking forward to writing more music Yes, and spending my time that way is a way of investing in the kingdom of God Yes, and resources allowing other resources like funds also just investing a bit more So far, what has been the most difficult thing about being a musician? It's time because you find that when you're looking for quiet time there are other responsibilities like as women we have homes to run I'm full-time employed like I just mentioned and funding sometimes you want to do something but you have to wait until the end of the month to get some money the economy we don't want to keep saying it's bad we don't want to speak negativity into our lives our lives but the reality is that you need some money and you might not always have it and also I was not very strong on social media there's a younger generation that's very good in social media Yes, I'm looking at you and so I'm also it's a learning curve for me to be out there in the media world What has been one of the best highlights you've had so far Oh, it's so exciting to see a video out there playing like now you have just played it and it feels like you didn't do something for nothing even if you reached one or two people you have encouraged somebody you passed on like the song you just played it's an upbeat song it reminds us that whatever we are going through we are on a journey it's not always bad and the combination of that journey is going to be awesome and it's a definite time when we are all going to be at home amazing tell me about a moment you had one of the very lowest moments you've had in life in life itself and there many sometimes you are young you are looking for work you can't get a job sometimes you are not feeling well or sometimes a loved one has died or is not feeling well when you you've lived a bit the low moments are many but the isn't it great that we have the word of God that is constant you are through your low moments your high moments are not one constant that we always fall back on and that's the word of God we've had eternity what are the other songs you've written I have written my very first song is called Majesty and Grace I'm yet to do a full video and then I did Eyes to Heaven which is a song of repentance because we always told we fall short of the glory of God we always have to accept that we are sinners and we need to repent sometimes and it also encourages the person who has also starboard somewhere or struggled that you are not out of the will of God it's just that you are struggling and there is the forgiver the third one is called Mystery Revealed and God is the revealer of all mysteries the fourth one is Eternity Beheld it was the first full video that I did and the fifth one is called No Greater Love it's about the comprehensive love of God the endioling love of God and how he calls us to love one another and he started his love he loves us he doesn't ask us to love one another or to love him without giving us the same standard and then I hope to release the Christmas songs it's called Christmas gifts your songs have really nice headings thank you they are really catchy so they are normal we are going to have kinda songs or love songs but they really have a catchy headline thank you do you mind singing one of them no I don't mind please do no greater love no greater love a greater love there is none than this no greater love no no greater love for one to die one lay down his life no greater love no no greater love yes God is love no greater love no greater love love manifested atoning love love has decided so we'll ascend life giving love there's no greater love amazing small voice I'm a bit nervous relax you're doing very you're doing just you're doing just very okay so who would you most likely collaborate with I haven't thought that far because of my recent entry but maybe someone who sings good kiswahili kiswahili shalages me a bit and I think swahili is such a lovely language but if you're going to sing a song just because you want to do in kiswahili and not be able to do a good song I think it's better I just sing in the language where I'm more comfortable in so English is the language that you would be most comfortable in what do you predict for the future in my music journey more music much more music I'm praying for God to enable me and also to continue in my day job career what do you do I'm an accountant you look like you look like when I saw you first time look like a banker look like not a lawyer but you look like those mathematicians mathematics related causes you have that kind it's amazing to see a accountant sing and preach the gospel it's quite something so if you were to plan instrument which one would it be I wish I knew how you know how to do I wish I knew how I'd love to jump around with it and just tram the strings what's fascinating about it it looks like such fun and then I've had people play an electric guitar and it sounds awesome personally I would want to play a drum I see those things I have a little tangori in which I also just shake around dance around but agita would be it for me as an upcoming gospel artist what would you love to see in the gospel industry more growth in gospel music and we a bit more boldness in putting the word in the music so that it is it's building people up and transforming and encouraging and we need to encourage each other and encourage ourselves also whenever you're sharing a message you're also encouraging yourself and learning from it so I'd love to see more of that so many programs that we share the true gospel in the songs it's another way of preaching and reaching people so what was the reaction of your colleagues when your song was released shock did they know you were singing no nobody, just came out even my family a lot of people are shocked so how has the transition been ok, no you're still working you don't intend to stop your career but how has the balance been between going to office and people you're like hey Ann, who's the man then you know there's this part where people have to deal with you professionally the two don't make so much because when I go to the office I am doing my job and yes you cannot divorce yourself from who you are because you are a Christian and then you are the accountant or whatever you do but people are just generally surprised but when I go to the office I concentrate on office matters and that's my employer's time amazing as we come to almost close to the first conversation how's your day like how do you balance both since I don't have small children that's why I found that now I can put in a bit of time into something that I enjoy and I love to do but I start I wake up at 5.30 in the morning I should wake up a little earlier but I'm not a morning person you and I both yes it's hard, it's the hardest thing that once I get up I wake up at 8.30 and I spend my day there and in the evening I get time sometimes I'm cooking I do a bit of cleaning and that leaves me enough time to write one or two things yes and then sometimes I'm practicing sometimes I've practiced late in the night in a closet somewhere so that nobody hears me practicing my song yes that's how I had on my day I serve in church here and there where I'm put in groups yes so I'm balancing all those things so what was the best advice someone gave you when you started music I wouldn't say it came at this time it came way back when I used to sing in the choir that when you're singing your words should be heard and that it is preaching I think that was good advice because when I started writing I would always remember your words are important what you're writing in there and people need to hear them if you weren't an accountant what would you be? I would be doing something technical or mechanical something that involves my mind and my hands I probably wouldn't want to be in IT but you see those engineers or motor vehicle engineers or mechanics I like to work with my hands and still involve my mind I would definitely not go back and do accounts again I would do something more technical what would you wish that musicians would know I don't know if I'm qualified to give advice yet I know where you're coming from because they are longer than me they probably know more than me exactly but is that what you have observed even from outside before you got into music so there is one or two things you can make a comment about yes I would say if it's gospel let it let it be gospel in word and in appearance because even biblically there is there is that scene that is there is something that can cause someone to stumble because it's what they perceive with their eyes and so maybe I'm singing good words but how I'm portraying the words and I must disclaim here I'm not an expert maybe there is a way I can share the word but maybe even the way I am dressed and senting the word you might wonder is this the word of God who is the creator of the universe who is holy who is maybe just maybe not to cross the fine lines between gospel and secular that's my my two cents it is very welcome it is very okay everyone has an opinion everyone has an observation they've made we expect your Christmas song out you know we are coming into the Christmas season now it's that year of November as soon as I'm given I go ahead by the people who've been there before like they know when to release it it's ready for release give us a parting shot using that camera talk to a musician who's probably upcoming like you someone who's been looking to start somewhere and they are wondering where do I start from what happens prayer lay your foundation of prayer everything begins with a prayer and then you take it from there because God is interactive He talks when you seek Him He will speak to you, He will guide you and also maybe look for one or two people who you know might be doing music if you don't just study a little bit but sometimes it's good to take a risk and just jump in tell us where we can find your new social media handles I am Ann Morris I'm on YouTube I'm on Facebook I'm on TikTok, I'm on X I'm on Instagram please follow me, subscribe to my YouTube channel I'm very new, I'm still looking for numbers and support me and there will be much more music amazing, thank you so much for coming thank you for having me you have such a calm demeanor warm personality thank you for coming thank you for your time we really appreciate you that was Ann Morris talking to us about her upcoming journey in music what she's doing and there's quite a lot she said just jump right in and get dirty you will find your way out get clean on your way do not touch that dial thank you


You know, they're eating out of their dog bowl and another dog approaches, they're going to growl and because there's a possibility of conflict, because there's only so much food in the bowl, they can't both eat the food, right? This is a common sense, almost undeniable feature of what property rights are. For some people, that'll be the most objectionable thing you've said so far. Picking on dogs. Could be. Okay, continue, please. Yes, I love my dogs. I'm looking at two smart poodles right now, but they're unintelligent in the sense of conceptual rational beings. Okay. I'm just saying even dogs can recognize, although I agree, I would take my poodles over some socialists any day. There's a line by Mike Maznick or someone else, he says that even birds don't try to copyright their songs or something, you know, they just sing them freely. But when you ask about why information, which is what the idea of IP is, is property rights and information, why information is not ownable, it's not exactly because it's replicable. Let's go back a second. Information as by the way, the proponents of intellectual property often point out, they will often say, well, I agree with you that only scarce resources can be owned, but information is always stored on something physical, right? It's always some arrangement of bits or atoms somewhere. And I think they're actually correct. Information is not a free-floating thing. We don't live in a platonic universe where there's ideas just floating around out there. Information is always embodied in some kind of substrate or medium. You know, even if it's in a signal being transmitted from Mars to the Earth in an electromagnetic wave, it's some kind of perturbation of the EM fields, which is some kind of scarce resource itself, because you can only use the bandwidth so much, et cetera. But usually it's stored and in copyright law, it says that there's a copyright in original works by an author fixed in a tangible medium of expression. This is what copyright law is. So even copyright law recognizes that you have to fix it. You can't just tell a story at a party and claim a copyright in that story. You have to fix it in a tangible medium of expression, which means you have to write it down. You've got to record it somewhere. You've got to store it somewhere, right? Which is how information works. All information is stored somewhere. Even if it's a memory, it's in your brain. It's some kind of impatterning of the neurons in your brain. But typically it's like ink on paper or carving on a tree, right, or a paint on a cave wall, right? Or the impatterning or the way that the pits and the ledges of a CD are put on there by a laser, which puts zeros and ones on there, which some other device can read and get information back out of. Information is always stored, in a sense, on some physical medium. I assume you'd agree with that. I don't think so. Yeah, and you sound very much like a patent attorney. Yeah. Yeah. But the thing is, guess what? These physical mediums are ownable scarce things. Someone owns them already, okay? So the problem I'm getting to is what I call double counting. And you see this in lots of areas of political theory and even libertarian talk. You'll have, for example, to take a slight digression, someone say that they own their labor. Okay? Now, I disagree with this. I understand what they're saying, but to me they're double counting. What they're saying is they own their body, okay? And that's fine. If you want to say you own your body and you want to word it by saying you own your labor, that's a way of putting it, I don't have a strong problem with that. But if you say, okay, I own my labor, which to my mind means I own my body and that gives me the ability to control my body as I see fit into labor as I see fit. You might as well say, I own my actions. I own what I do. Okay. I was just going to say that. I own my free will, right? Yeah. Or you could say, I own my wife because she's my wife. You know, the word my is there. It's a possessive, after all, right? I mean, or I own my memories or I own my age. It's my age. You know, I'm 49.8. That's my age. It is my age. I guess I own it. I mean, there's no end to these metaphorical ways of putting things, right? But my point is if you ask someone who says they own their labor, well, do you own your body? Let's say yes. I'll say so. Do you own your body and your labor? And quite often they'll say, yeah, I own my body and my labor. Now, to me, that's like saying I own my head and I own my brain and I own my thoughts and my brain. I mean, you keep adding these things and you end up double counting and the same thing happens with labor, by the way. So like a Randian will say, I created a new value. So that's the whole theory of rights for Randians is the creation of what they call values, like a noun. They think of things as values by which they mean something that you value. So they sort of skip the Austrian subjectivist aspect of it. Or they kind of bury it and say, well, let's give me an example. Like if I make a new mousetrap, yes, that's a value, okay, but I own the mousetrap because I actually had to own the wood and the metal that I made it from already. So when I rearrange these materials into a new mousetrap, I own the mousetrap because I already owned the constituent materials that went into it, right? Yes. And you created a value and you own that value. Like, no, I don't, you don't say I have to say and I own that value. The value is the mousetrap, but I own the mousetrap because I own the materials that went into it. And if I didn't own the materials, the raw materials that went into it, I don't own it. Like if I'm a factory, factory, factory, worker, worker, and I'm making a mousetrap for this own, I don't own the mousetrap that I make. You see, so they, they, what they try to do is they try to identify features of objects and they try to separate them from the objects and they try to say they're both ownable. So I own my body and I own my action. Well, but owning my body just means that I have the ability and the right to perform what actions I want to do with it. To say I own my body and actions is a weird type of double counting, which can get you into trouble, especially if you use the word value or labor instead of actions. Because now we get to the labor theory of value. I own my, which is what Locke did with the labor theory of property and what Karl Marx and the others did with the labor theory of value. They start thinking of labor as this substance that you own, right? Which they never would do if they keep straight in their minds the fact that you own the scarce resource of your body. That gives you the right, the ability to perform labor as you see fit. That is true. Okay. But it doesn't mean you own your labor as a separate thing that's independently ownable. When you start thinking like that, when you start double counting, you start thinking of labor as a substance that's ownable. And guess what? This substance that you own is kind of ethereal substance with things in the world that are unowned. You acquire this mystical tendril of connections to it. You own it now because you've mixed your labor, which you own your labor. Never see labor. It's never amiable. You can never measure it, right? And then the Marx scene starts saying, well, it's exploitation, right? If you don't pay someone, if you make profit off of one of your employees, because the labor they've mixed, they own their labor and it goes into these products they've made for you. So you're exploiting them. You're stealing from them. You're stealing their labor from them. You're effectively enslaving people by employing them. So basically this convoluted way of thinking, this imprecise way of thinking leads people to come to the exact opposite conclusion that common sense would lead you to that is offering to give someone something you don't owe them if they will do a service for you is stealing from them or exploiting. So it's completely backwards. So I think the way to look at this is step back and say it's not really the fact that information is replicable, which is why it's not a scarce resource, it's not ownable. It's that information just like bitcoins, right? What is a bitcoin? It's just the arrangement of material that someone else owns, right? Information has to be stored on a substrate, on a carrier. Proper property tries to grant property rights and ideas. But what are ideas? Again, ideas are knowledge or information, which is always stored in some underlying owned thing. And therefore, let's just consider an object that most people would uncontroversially agree is ownable and should be ownable. Like let's say a red billiards ball. So here we have a red billiards ball. Let's say it was manufactured in the year 1985. So now we have a 30-year-old billiards ball. It's got a certain size, it's got a certain color, it's got a certain weight, right? It could even have a little, it could have a pattern of information etched upon it somewhere. You could have, you know, it could have the Bible actually etched into it somewhere. So it could have information and pattern into it, right? So we have an object that has an owner. Now this object is describable by many of its features, right? Or characteristics or what you could call properties, right? One of the properties or features of this ball is its diameter. One is its mass. One is its age, okay? One is its composition, right? One is its degree of perfect sphericity, I don't know what the word for that is. One is its color. It could be bright red. These are all features of, another one is the information and patterned onto its outer surface. There could be a nice saying or the Bible or whatever on there. These are features of the object that are owned. And this is why I mentioned the double counting point. It is true that you own the ball and that means you own everything about the ball. But it doesn't mean that you own these features as some kind of separate metaphysical thing. You don't own the color of the ball in some general sense. You don't own redness. You don't own the age of the ball. If you did, that would mean that you have a property right in every other, I guess, thing in the universe that's exactly 30.1 years old or whatever the age is. You would have a property right in everything in the universe that has this exact sphericity and this exact mass and this exact diameter, right? Or it looks like this ball. And that is the problem with intellectual property. And that's the problem with treating Bitcoin as property in my opinion. Okay. But hold on for a second. I don't know anyone who supports IP that would claim that they own all of those things separate. They claim that they own the combination, this unique and original combination of characteristics. Well, not the whole thing though, right? So what they usually do, they isolate one set of features of the object. So let's take a book as a better example. So they'll say that they own the book and they own the way the book is patterned, right? The way the ink patterned on the book. That's where the information has to be stored, right? So what they're saying is any other object that's in patterned the same way, they have a property right in that object. Even though that other object is another physical thing that has another owner, right? So this is the fundamental problem. So here's what I'm saying. Information is one of the features of some owned object. It's not the only feature. It's one of the ones that's more easily copyable. So for example, if I see a book that someone else owns, it's pretty easy for me to make another book using my own resources that has a similar pattern of information on it. So in that sense, information is a feature of an object that happens to be easily replicable. But other features of the book may not be easily replicable. So for example, the age of the book, let's say it's the oldest book that ever we've ever found. 1500 years old or something like that. I can't make a new book that's 1500 years old. I just can't do that. Logically, I guess you could, but I can't see how you can do it. So that's a feature that you couldn't easily replicate. The weight of the book, I guess I could make an object that has the same weight as that book. So certain features of objects are easily replicable and certain features are not. But the point is, whatever the feature is, it's a feature of an owned resource and a property right is not violated by someone else having another resource that has similar features in some respects. This is the very problem of IP is that it all goes back to this double counting and it goes back to a mistaken idea. This is why when people talk about Bitcoin, they say, well, bitcoins exist. They use the word exist. It's like, well, to my mind, it's sort of a recovering Randian who appreciates her epistemology. When they say it exists, what they're trying to say is there is a conceptual term that we found to identify an operation of this phenomena and the term is Bitcoin and that helps us format our thinking. It's a valid concept. It has a reference in reality. It describes something that's actually going on. It's a legitimate concept. It's an accurate way of describing what's going on. So when they use the word bitcoins exist, what they mean is there's really a phenomenon out there. That's the way to understand what's happening. We're going to use this word Bitcoin in this concept, Bitcoin, to format our understanding of what's going on, right? But people get trapped into this, well, I've just come up with a valid concept, a valid way of understanding the way the universe works in this one little area. And so I'm going to attach the word exist to this. That's my grunting way of saying this is a valid concept. It's an accurate description of reality.  This is basically the reasoning of these people. They go from conceptualization, the fact that there are legitimate concepts to whatever word I can slap on something that's a useful way of describing reality must point to something out there that is ownable. But the problem is quite often the thing they're pointing to is a feature of an object that is itself ownable. And the thing is already owned. The features cannot be independently owned. Okay, now that's basically the point. Your frustration, does a lot of it stem from the fact that you're having these discussions with people who aren't sort of versed in IP law or just legal concepts to begin with? Are you really having the same discussions to the same extent with your colleagues, for instance? No. Well, okay. So there are no colleagues, basically, is the problem. And the reason is, I know I'm not frustrated at people. I understand their confusion. Look, I mean, I've been struggling with this myself for a long time. And this is the way my thinking wins its way to try to find a way to assemble this stuff that you can see where you can find, you can feel this annoying problem that everyone has and they're not quite getting it right. And the one way you can tell that is everyone uses conflicting terminology. You'll have one Bitcoin advocate say, no, you don't own the Bitcoins. You own the coins.  And then another will say, no, you don't own the Bitcoins. You own the encryption key. I'm like, well, that's information on your computer and you already own your computer. So how can you own a key? And others say, no, it's because you have an implicit contract with, I'm like, well, where is the contract? What are the terms? So you can see they're going around in circles and I totally understand that. I'm not frustrated really at all. I guess if I'm frustrated, I'm frustrated with mainstreamers because your libertarians are typically not legal experts. They don't understand the legal concept, conceptual framework, which to my mind makes a lot of these errors clear more easily, more easily visible. The people that understand legal theory, they don't have a good libertarian principled framework at all. So in other words, people that understand legal theory aren't principled and don't care. And the people that care are confused about this emerging thing, but partly because they're not libertarian legal theorist experts. So I wouldn't say I'm frustrated with them at all. I am frustrated a little bit with people that are too cocksure about these things. I try to be cocksure about it because this is an emerging thing. It's not easy. I think it'd be fine to discuss things in a rational way, to ask questions, to gnaw on these things around the edges, but for people to just come out cocksure with these statements, which you can tell right away, they haven't thought it all through. And they're just making assertions, which they cannot back up. Or they haven't defined their terms carefully enough where you can even know whether the right or wrong, which is always a sign of someone who is kind of a loose cannon. So I don't mean to sound frustrated. I'm not. I think it's a difficult puzzle, but it's one that's important. And we have to try to solve it somehow. And we can only do it honestly. And by being aware of the nature of what we're really talking about and its implications for other parts of libertarian theory and for intersocial human cooperation. You alluded to this earlier, actually. But I think part of the problem is your comments are being construed as an attack, a direct attack on Bitcoin, where that's not the case. Yes. I think some people think when you say, Bitcoin can be owned. So I think they're thinking in practical terms, like ownership to them means just a practical system that works and they have control over the Bitcoins. And of course, I wouldn't deny that because I've had people send Bitcoins to me and I've sent Bitcoins to others. So I know that there is the way you can use a system to change these ledger entries, right? There's a way to do it, but that's not what ownership means. I don't think they have a appreciate. And partly my fault, because when I say, no, it's not ownership, I'm going back to the legal interpretation of ownership and not just legal. I mean, this is part of libertarian theory. It's important to make a distinction. It's important to make a distinction between right, between might and right. It's important to make a distinction between is and should. It's important to make a distinction between the de facto situation and the preferred, the preferred rightful situation, right? It's important to make a distinction between economic possession and between social cooperation and rights because you need the former to analyze human action per se, like Robbins and Crusoe on a desert island would take action. He would employ or possess scarce means. Now, these people might say he owns, if he finds a, if he finds some resource that he's using, he owns those resources. I think that's imprecise. We need to reserve the word ownership for a social situation. He, Robbins and Crusoe has no need for property rights. And ownership to me is linked in with property rights. Property rights make no sense and cannot exist, whatever the word exists means in that case, with someone alone on a desert island. Property rights are always rights against another person and they always control the legitimate ability to use a particular resource that the two or more people in this small, in this society could potentially have conflict over. Okay. And one more question of going long here. So one more question before I wrap up. Um, if you were going to write your book or revise your book against intellectual property or the, um, I'm wondering, where would, uh, this double counting fit in? Would it be just kind of supporting, uh, commentary or would it be more? No, I don't think it would radically revise it. It would be supporting. There's, there's, I would also be a little bit more, maybe I might, I might revise some of my wording on the word scarcity and make clear to people that it has a deal with rivalrousness, not just lack of abundance. Um, um, I also probably would bring in this negative servitude idea I've used before, which is, which complements what we've talked about today. And I've got a whole blog post on that, but in short, the negative servitude idea is a way of legally classifying the nature of intellectual property rights, which is, it shows that what an intellectual property right is, it's what's what we call a negative servitude or a negative easement. It's, it's basically a legal right for some person to use state or legal force against someone else to prohibit them from using their own resources that they legitimately own in a given way. And that is, um, an accepted legal classification in law called negative servitude, which you would see, for example, in a restrictive covenant, like in a neighborhood where people, everyone agrees that you can't paint your house purple. Okay. That's a negative servitude and a negative servitude is perfectly legitimate if it's contractually agreed to. That's why people do it. But if the government simply announced one day that person A has the right to veto how everyone else in his neighborhood paints their house, the government will be granting a negative servitude to A without the consent of the burden to states. That would be a taking of property. And that's exactly what IP does. Copyright and patent or negative servitudes that the, where the, whereby the government grants to someone who registers some claim with the state saying, I've come up with a new copyright song. I've come up with a new invention and the government says, okay, we're going to give you the right to veto how others use their existing own resources. That is a negative servitude. The problem with it is, it's involuntary. The people who are burdened by it never agreed to that. So this is really the essence of the problem of patents and copyrights, or that's one way to explain it. And I did not have that in my original book. So I would add that and I would add this double counting stuff too is another way to illustrate the dangers of IP. Okay. My guest has been Stefan Kinsella, patent attorney. You can find him at c4sif.org. I believe I have that correct. Is there any other website or, for instance, a podcast you want to mention? Well, I have a c4sif.org is where I put a lot of my intellectual property related material. My general website, Stefan Kinsella.com has all of my books and articles and I have a podcast there too, which I'll run this podcast on when you release it. Okay, great. And I'll link to that on the show notes. Thank you very much for joining me for this in depth and extended conversation. I really enjoyed it. And please visit my website at powerandmarket.com. Until next time, take care.


Today, it's the native cloud apps and as far as the Kubernetes and with MySQL out. So today, we are going through how we do this running native cloud apps with MySQL and running with our buddies in the VP cluster and running on the Kubernetes. So the first topics we will try is to explain the cumulative overview. And the second topic that we do is to go over is how we deploy MySQL and different libraries like new VP clusters using MySQL practices that are on Kubernetes. And we will show the demos how we create the new VP cluster, and as well as how to create and deploy, like using Hamptar or a young man advanced with the Gopalmer or PHP MyAndMean, and looking closely how to do like external names with MySQL. So first, cumulative overview. So what's today, people are looking at and it's like breaking down the system into pieces and looking to get it closely. So that's people's card is microservices and small small pieces and looking at our microservices together and then converting wires and so on, the protocol. And that's the way we talk about it. It's like, okay, people do it with the RESTful, right? And the microservices terms, and in the old days, people used to do SLA or some other corporate in the old days, right? But today, people always talk about, okay, managing the system and by pieces and looking closely. And with the microservices, people have the small subsystem and they're actually within the small subsystem. And what lights in the old days, a big database, centralized database, and as things connects to just one single database, as far as today, people starts to have a small footprint of the database and just so my SQL does. So as the characteristics for these applications on cloud, so people relinquish other services on cloud, no matter this is like, okay, some other AI services like machine learnings, and as far as some other intelligence services or evens, okay, these are the couple of integrations, orchestrations, or curing services from the cloud. And as more deployment we need, yeah, easy deployments will likely continue to deploy, many is very favorable approach. And as all these integrators, microservices are lucidly coupled and API-based services are useful. So on the cloud, how many of my SQL we are doing? So Oracle cloud, we call this Oracle cloud infrastructure, OCI. We have the point fixed, okay, my SQL service, we call this my SQL database service MDS. So it is very just easy to use. We can bring this my SQL with different shapes, okay, all depends what you need. Obviously, CPU, memory, and the computer is just handy because all these like, like backup, security, and things. And the most important thing here is the extensions. We have the update AutoML. And because the accelerations, high performance, and big data. So what we can do is, this my SQL database AutoML, it is actually at the back, okay, we provision a set of cluster machines. And normally, as you store the data. So the data is just, it's not just to store in your DB on the frontier, but as well as to push, okay, to the back of the cluster. So that facilitates, facilitates like in memory code. And it is in memory, and it is very, very super fast. And there's one more additional things. And now, let's say I machine run. So the data, when we talk about machine learning, is to train, okay, the train as a model. So where the data is, likely database, right? So it's actually in this ML. So we provide this like capabilities in all in one, a one set of the solutions as like the NDS, we provide OLTP, OLAP, as well as the machine learning capability and create your apps. So for today, we talk more likely the deployments using container, okay, Kubernetes. And there might be possibilities. It's then and on my SQL server using Docker image. It's just simple. And there's also anonymous properties with master MLDP cluster and it can be deployed using master operator, okay, for the Kubernetes. So what we are going to show you. So the operator, how we do this. So first of all, as to basic master MLDP cluster, there is more new things. But what we do here is to deploy this, okay, on this more easy custom container. And it is up to three in the Kubernetes and balance. The three most stable set components, okay, down at the bottom, MySQL 0, MySQL 1, MySQL 2, okay, the three most cluster can be deployed, okay, and the largest can be three, and the fourth, and the two can be one. So all of this, if you do it on your own, you have, we have to manage every components by ourselves. Okay, as well as the, right, how apps to connect to the routers. So with the MySQL operators, all of this just one kind of one single command, okay, we deploy the whole set of the MLDP because there are three nodes, routers, and also the connectivity house to manage the up and down and bring the server down and then switch over to the other, bring the data back, all this automatically. That's the operators. So how do we do this? So basically, we have the documentation and you can do it with the written on the open source register as the operator is, and we apply, yeah, as the manifest installation, we apply the CLD because from the resource definitions that we create the resource or the IC in the DB cluster companies. And when we close, we run the engine as the operators, as some of the apps are just to help you, okay, to facilities, all the operations, like that, those amount of things. And to create the cluster, it is just simple, create a YAML or FGUs and Hentron. So here, as the manifest, we create a YAML file in that, like the YAML, it will create your cluster name. The second things. So people's may also like to use Hentron, but it's also possible with the MySQL operators. So we have the repository and just to use and install the operator as the, somebody engine, okay, to handle the background drops, the integrations, ground donations, and to install the MySQL in the DB cluster for the, yeah, the Hentron. And then the red text in here. So the TRS use self sign equal to true. So this is some additional possibly, yeah, people may be missed, okay. So I just put it down here. When we create, we can actually set this, okay, because we might not want to provide the certificate. Otherwise, we'll have some more steps, okay, to provide the certificate in order to create the cluster. So as simply as in here, just to set this to true. So look at this, okay, to demo. So let me show the demos, how we do this to create the HTTP clusters using MySQL operators. So we're going to deploy this engine models using the latest versions of our 8.032 operators. So once right now, I have already added the repository. And that's why I just to look up the repository and show them as the operators what it has. There are two TRS in there. One is the operator, one is the MVP cluster. So the first, first, first things, we install the operator engines. So we just have to install operators having the namespace, the name MySQL operators and create a name. So just done. We can actually look at what has been deployed. So we just look at the MySQL operators and see if it is already up and running. So it is up and running. And then at the GitHub website, we can actually copy the tags. And here, that's how we do the Hentra installations for the MVP cluster. It is just real simple. And install just a name. And this actually we use the MySQL MVP cluster. And the namespace just for the name, we have the MyIC01 and the user's group and password super secret. And it can actually be locked in through anywhere. So three instances for the server, one route to the instance. And as mentioned earlier, we use self sign. So once we have done this and the server will be created under this name space, MyIC01. So you can see the facilities are locked. We do not need to create a specific server one, server two, server three. So with this one single command, we create all these servers together and as well as the vouchers. And obviously for the servers, like, okay, how we look up the IP address, that's the IP. So how this is all done. So you can see it is still under the stage of provisioning. So it is on the stage of this initialization of the DB. So after that, okay, in around two minutes time, so you can see that 127 later on, we have three servers up and running. Okay, so it is all entirely being created. Yeah, entirely. And as well as you can see the services, okay, which is actually being created. Going out the route to create the finish. So there are four ports up and running. One is the three server and routers. All ports. And what we do here is we have the new name called, yeah, we have deployment. And we have the IC, the NDP cluster, and which it has three on my port running, and also the routers up and running. So one X is it tries to connect to the bring up and now the port running my full shell ends to connect to the server and then look up what is happening. So it should be secret my cluster. And we tries to look at the cluster status. So they are all up and running with the latest versions, 8.0, 32. And the name right in there. So it is my cluster that's low, that's one, that's two. So let's look at the routers, routers, which is what we are talking about. Do you like for example to get routers? How we do this for families deployments? It is also quite a popular dashboard famous. People may like to use Namibas or Hemchart. We will use Namibas this time and how to add the data source. And add the data source, it is my as well. But one thing is important. These grad families or applications run as separate main space. So you may not know the IP address should be just to use IP address or use a more independent names, what we call externally. Now showing top. So here, this is the deployment of the family using the YAML files. And we have to look at the number file, which is the image grad families, and put number on three thousands. And we may configure some sort of the source CPU and memory, as well as to create load balances so that I can actually lock in from external IP address, like through the Internet to access to it. There are load balances. So what we do actually happens, and we can just to create a namespace of the families and apply the YAML file within that namespace. So you can see, I just to apply this YAML file we just create. And as well as you can see the YAML file create the different level of services including the grad families, so as well as the load balances of this. And once we find this to use, and we can look at the grad family, it is up and running. So still provisioning and getting more and more. And we can stretch to see it. And once we get this to it, what we do here is like how we can connect to the server. So we just look at the IP address, you can see the external IP address. And we just log in. And we can see the cluster IP. Okay. But sometimes, once it's like the IP address, yeah, we never know. Okay. Another day when the server time out again, so the IP address will be changed. But anyway, in here, we can just to use the IP address in here. Do you see, yeah, it's still working in here. So the rest of the speakers which we have just created, and then we save the task, the connection source, that's not nice. So what the next is, we do not like to use the IP address we want something as new. So that my cluster as the service to connect to it. But we are actually in two separate namespace. How can we do this? So what people want to do this is to isolate them by means of usually copying and using the service and the type external name and connecting to that name. We have to define this to my IC01. So we apply this specific, okay, my custom YAML file and to define all of this like same space. So if we look at this, we have more names that we can use. So one of which is my cluster. And my cluster is the point routing to the MySQL router's point. Meaning, whenever there is any switching up and down, it will post to the right server and getting that to use. So that works. That should work. And we may get hookups to write specific a scaling, performance scaling, a specific table regarding like memory usage, something like that. So just take an example. So we add PC columns, allocations, how many, how much memory is free out and for specific events as well. So on this, we may actually be able to see that. Okay. We have a report, okay, getting data. So in these tries to create this. So all this, and we may actually create another one, select a version and other panels. So within the dashboard, that's actually about the server name, host name, and as well support and versions. So once we have this, this is going to my cluster as the server name. So what we do here is we may change the primary cluster, okay, to somewhere else. This is nice to show connections to it and connections to it and then switch this primary instance to another server. So once up to this, once we do this, we will have the server and change this to my cluster tool for just an example. So you can actually change it to cluster too. So what we do here, the server just switched. And if we refresh the page and what it does, the server connects to this, yeah, my cluster as the router needed here, it connects to the right servers, okay, which is the primary server. So we can actually change another time. And so from the application point of view, it is similar. It is just this abuse and automatic sending. Okay. The last bit of piece I want to show is the way we are using the PHP. So here's a not quick demo. When we deploy PHP, my admin is to my SQL in the GP cluster. And last time, we have been using YAML and this time, as the services. We may actually do this by hand chart as well. We can put in PHP, my admin, find somewhere else, and we have the BNAMI, hand chart, okay. And we have the hand chart creations where we just reset the DB host equal to my cluster. Again, my cluster is the name. So basically, the provisions using the hand chart values, the values between the original and the added, I just put the added, okay, to the hand chart report values to put in the certificates for the connections. So the PHP, my admin thing connects to the server directly as the SSL connections. So I also put the load balancers to enables the browsers from the internet, my missions can connect to it. So we can see the IP address and finally, we get hookups through these servers. So what we have the service up and running. So here IP address and the load balancers which is one, two, and nine, some other things. And we just copy and paste and put it onto the into the page and we will find we're locked in. But the thing is, we haven't yet to put in the external names. That's why when we connect, it fails. Now we go back in here, we need to put my extra, okay, it's the reference, okay, regardless the mouse, you still want my cluster on my service. So what we have is events in my cluster, we are most, which has all the external names for the servers. So we just register all this to the PHP, my admin home space. And once we have all this done, we can run this PHP again. So it is just easy and handy. So it is all created. So with this, we just be lucky again. And then it is SSL connections. I hope this can go with the questions and see if any of you have any questions for us.


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Would you advise a coach to play only with half the team? Of course not. The world needs all its best talents to face the many challenges of today. And we have many examples showing the importance of women's meaningful participation and leadership. Yes, and the evidence is everywhere to be seen. Women a whole less than 25% of seats in the National Parliament and less than 30% of senior management roles. At the end of 2020, only 21 countries had a female head of state or head of government. And this is not by chance, nor lack of interest. It is discrimination that holds women back.  It was not any difference for me. For instance, I was often asked who will support me or advise me because I didn't have a husband. And as if a woman could not be in a position of power without the guidance of a man. We grew up seeing mostly men in leadership positions. We are barred with subtle and not so subtle hints that women are less capable. So we tend to assume men no better, but this is based on no objective reasons. Having more women in power can erode that suspicion and mistrust. When women in power becomes a powerful woman, many women in power will perform power itself. Believe in yourself. Be inspired by the many stories of women's incredible achievements. Time and time again, women have proven they can be effective and decisive leaders. Part share key works to exclude us. We must push back in solidarity and sisterhood with other women and with all those affected by discrimination and oppression.