ple who work there all of these companies dice bunder bungee Blizzard It's all of them. It's just different people. It's just totally different people. I don't think the dice I don't think dice has the talent at the studio capable of making a battlefield I I just don't know if they do i'm less i think Usually i'm much more inclined to say that it's issues with leadership and the decision makers either at the studio or the publishers Rather than the specific people on the ground I get the impression that a lot of the developers are incredibly talented Yeah, there's definitely a lot of talents. They're really good at art. They're really good at design And coding and programming and putting in all these systems and stuff, but it doesn't They have that capacity But the decisions that are being made higher up in terms of what games you're going to be making and what features you can do And what you have time to work on I think that those are just going to make it difficult for them to uh to max like execute on these things And in the case of infinite, they did bring back joe statin who's like a veteran since the first game And he's like they brought him back at the end of last year So you gotta know how much Even back then he was Referred to himself as like the story duct tape guy who would just he was the story guy. Yeah You take all these like mechanics and story Plot beats that weren't quite fitting and he would find ways to make it all blend together and and when the halo infinite development process was in dire straits because it was in Shit creek for a while there, but then they brought in joe to like, okay We like we need somebody to rein this all in for us across a bunch of different teams and departments Can you do this and I was worried that he was going to be the fall guy if this If this project was going to fall on its face, but it seems like they're pulling it together You just made me think of something that probably was I think This game had very bad development cycle And clearly reasons certainly the first half of it. Yeah Yeah, the reason why it is so lacking in the content is because I think that what happened Was when he was brought in it was like, all right We got we got to have something for net we just got it We got to focus in and like really focus in on these specific things and have something out That is good And works and has content and we have to try and fix the other stuff later Like we we just got to focus on delivering this product. I think that's what happened here Yeah, but there was a much bigger game that they wanted to make I do wonder I think I think when campaign comes out This theory will basically either be confirmed or we'll see then we'll see what the campaign is Um And and and then and then it's like we'll fix it from here. We'll we'll build up from here, you know Do you see parallels between this and anthem? um Kind of but anthem is like I do I the problem is I read I remember reading an article. I think it came out last year It was a developer who would left 343 Who had basically said that there were a lot of problems, uh, because because this is something you might not know Joe Staten is I think he's either the third or fourth creative director on this game The other ones left In fact, yeah, because I think there was um, there were multiple and then they left over the course of the years Because they were building this new engine and and then like try to make the game and stuff and that he He's like the fourth one they've had to come in to basically make it happen um And I just see someone in chat say 343 should have just restarted from scratch It's like dude metroid prime 4 that is an anomaly that doesn't happen Where you say, yeah, it wasn't working. We're just going to start all over again Usually it's either get it done or it's cancelled. Um, it's not often that you'll just redo it That is very rare And um, I don't even know that microsoft can afford it because what other exclusives do they have for like the xbox What else is there right now for it? So I guess But nothing else. Yeah, not until I mean until the really the big Bethesda ones come out whenever they come out Well, starfield is next year. Maybe uh, because it might get delayed um Elder scrolls a long way out fable is seemingly a long way out. Perfect dark. I doubt that's coming out for a while Um gears of war. We don't have anything at the moment. So it's like, yeah, what else is there, you know? um Yeah, they needed something. I think that's that's all this is they needed it out this year if they couldn't delay it anymore Six years, you know Yeah, the longest wait between a halo game by far Yeah, you're like, uh, six six years for this is like, uh, something that oh man It's what something happened a lot of things definitely happened more than more than a few things happened Well, 343 is outsourced the development to at least like three or four different companies Yeah, but I think that's just part of the industry at this point with these big games. You have a lot of contractors involved um, yeah Fair enough. I because I think uh, I think last semester had like Like a third or half of the stuff was contracted as well because it it's just the amount of assets and things You need to make for modern games It's just you need and you can just imagine how that slows things down Right where you like you have like a completely different company remote somewhere else Working on a huge chunk of the game and then they send over their assets and they're you're like, what the fuck? how did you code this like Like just like trying to look at it from the inside out It's like how are we going to integrate this with our systems and you can imagine the amount of miscommunication and time it takes to like Sort all that out I think that's the hard part about making these big video games now is just that It's not possible to make a game like this Without like a thousand people involved in some way Because someone needs to make all of these assets somebody needs to texture the rocks and like the vehicle And there's way more polygons and way more textures that needed now than there was 10 years ago two years ago And I got to imagine that that just causes issues where it's like you need to make decisions about the gameplay itself And the assets you need and you need to lock them in Yeah, you don't have time to to mess around. You don't have the ability to Make tweaks or changes that are too substantial. You need to know what you're making and make it Right and and then what what consequences does that have on gameplay? Like how how adaptable can you be to the to the demands of like consumers or players and things like that? um It doesn't surprise me that a lot of Studio heads in a lot of companies seem to leave to then do smaller projects I got to imagine it's incredibly difficult to manage a project like this Right if I was going to be in the industry, I would not want to work for most triplay companies I'd want to have like some double A level saying you have a game Yeah, we know all the people you're working with Well, it's the whole thing of uh, it used to be That a single developer's contribution to any game could be like a substantial portion of it that there'd be one guy who You know design like makes a whole level But now you need teams per levels and there are multiple teams per level because you got different People who are doing design you got people who are doing the art Uh, and they all got to work together and it's like yeah It just gets bigger and bigger and bigger and each Contribution that any person can make get smaller just by virtual how long it takes for each person to make each asset Exactly guy used to have an animation guy for all of the enemies and animation guy for all of the gun You know I was just gonna say that like the the bigger the team gets you'd think You know, you'd be a bit happier because your job gets easier But I think people a lot of people just feel like a smaller and smaller cog in this huge What's my impact on this? Exactly. So their job satisfaction goes down in proportion with the team growth and then it's like, you know I would rather like work on my own game at home In my pajamas or like with a smaller team at least You hear that a lot more so now Because the reason why i'm thinking about this is the guy who directed halo five He left 343 to make a team of like 30 people To make a smaller game And I think naturally be like dude, you leave him like making halo games like just make Game with a team of 30 people. Why would you do that? It's like well If you I don't know like if you want like a less stressful job Where are where each person of the team can make more of a contribution to the whole game Uh, and you've got less bureaucracy to to way through then. Yeah, like you might want to make that choice There are games that I play that they just look like they're a blast to make games like enter the gungeon and Yeah, yeah Development as an idea when you see these little games that were made by even one person like uh, stardew valley. That was one guy One guy who made this really cool game that sold like millions of coffees because it was a cool idea that likes Undertale minecraft Yeah, well minecraft is yeah, it's terraria one guy I probably was I have been watching um the the dev streams. I this is kind of actually a This departs from the norm for me because I normally don't watch this sort of thing But i'm uh, I like seven days to die a whole bunch and the team who makes that the fun pimps They have been putting out like live streams and stuff on twitch for the alpha 20 release which is going to be a huge update for the game and You like hey, this is this is this is joel. He works on the levels He's like in this so joel talks about I did this and I did this and then this whole building I made and these whole things and I did all that and that like, okay This is john he works on the animations But is okay, they do this and this and this this is bill. He works on the new models So yeah, so I did this with a model and he looks like this and now this zombie looks like that So I did all that and they're just talking about all the stuff that they put in the game And how like they have a guy who does all the models they have a guy who does the levels They have a guy who does the the weapons and everything and so They're just talking about all the stuff that they made in the game And you're like that looks like the kind of thing that a lot of people would if I was a game dev That would be what I would want. I did all of the guns for this game I did all the cool zombie models for this game all of that. That's me I had a very real impact on this project and it would not be the same without me if I wasn't there Right and you want to be able to like claim ownership over a singular aspect of like a video game, right? Yeah Still think that tree is me I did tree number one five No, I I was the second pass. I did the second pass on tightening up the ansie aliasing 327 and 7b and that was me Yeah, and every once in a while when I play the game and I walk by bush 7 I'm like, uh, I remember I remember those days where I was making sure that the Light from this other guy's project would shine on my bush and it would look all right Yeah, that was that was me Yeah, I'm halo John halo Jonathan halo So What else is there uh hopes for the future of this game? um mostly More maps and modes that's that one progression Yeah Oh my god, like just tether it to xp. I earn in the game. Please keep the challenges You can keep the challenges is let me unlock Let me earn xp through my performance in the game. Please Yeah More maps more modes better progression Much better. The big thing is progression if there's a bunch of stuff to unlock in this game And it's not a pain in the ass to get it that will significantly help Um Because it feels good to unlock, you know more armor pieces and more effects and more stuff like that Especially if it's kind of meritorious in a way um Because there's there's definitely a platform here for weapon skins decals customization options things of that nature so Where it goes we'll see I have If this game turns out to be either The multiplayer player will probably be fine for a while um But if this game turns out to be a disaster in terms of campaign and the rest I guess I won't be surprised, but if it turns out to be amazing. I also sort of won't be surprised It's that it could go anywhere Kind of feeling I have I suppose we'll do a part two for that Suppose we will Um, yeah, I I but I've got there's some level of hope for this game in terms of it Oh, yeah, this game is absolutely I don't know if battlefield is fixable. I just don't know Although significant updates Because even because I imagine in my head battlefield 2042 Working perfectly as intended and I still don't like that game Right whereas here it's like the game is working The game is working like it's polished. Um mechanically Uh, we there just needs to be changes made if you add more content, that'll really help you add more game modes That'll definitely help a bunch And you can you can probably change the progression system relatively easily Um, and that'll be fine. And if you make those changes, you're already in a really good place It sucks the forge is it's so far away But um, I think the big thing is they need to keep the players that they have right now and you can do that by adding More content to give them more variety Hopefully until forge comes out and then and then players themselves will be able to do a lot more of their heavy lifting Um, yeah tomorrow they came out with an update You want to you want to play slayer or objective or a mix of both? There's playlists for each Yeah, also we added add in add infection add Add assault Yeah Add these modes will be too difficult to do as opposed to you know as opposed to battlefield where it's like All right, so we just need to like fundamentally change the mechanics That's not possible if really speaking of um updates didn't you go see the the rock star update for the uh remaster No, I didn't know I saw rock stars post. Is that what you mean? That's what I'm yeah, I meant. Yeah No, I haven't seen it. It's it's on twitter. If you if you look for it, you'll find it, but from memory. It's um They said like it didn't release to our standard It's like It really is it Well It didn't release to our rock star. You have no excuse rock star outsourced it to grove street games Which is a subdivision that handles the mobile ports specifically we'll So I think I guess the grove street games put it out and rock star didn't really look at it until they saw the reception They're like wait. Wait, wait, wait. Let's look at this.  Is there a company called Grove Street Games? No, I'm serious. Yeah, they handle mobile ports. I love your beaming. So GTA3, Vice City, San Andreas for Android, they did that. And then Rockstar said, why don't you guys do the definitive edition?  You know what else is unbelievable? The old ones are available again now. Oh, I know, right? Really? Oh, all right.  Like just be like, yeah, okay.  I hate it when they do this. Yeah. Yeah, like, no, it's all of the customers that are wrong. It's like that Rockstar interview. What Rockstar did. Children that are wrong. They knew they could release this shit product and enough people would buy it to where it would make it worth it. And that's it. And then they got too much, too much pushback. And they're like, uh-oh. They got, I, I, they knew they would get the pushback. I think they knew, but it would be worth it. Enough, enough people will buy it. Because remember, they pulled the other versions. You can't buy the originals anymore. They pulled those. Well, they're back online apparently, right? Or they have now. They put them back. Well, now it's going to say I don't even know. And now, well, I think that's, I think that's part of the whole, I don't want to like crazy Illuminati mastermind this stuff, but they pull it from the stores. They release this abomination. The abomination is an abomination. Everyone hates it, but it doesn't matter that it's bad. Enough people bought it to make it worth, to justify the minimal work they put into it. It's fine. Enough people buy it because of course they will. We're rockstar and we're re-releasing, you know, quote unquote remastered versions of old games people love. There's a backlash. That's all right. We expect that. What we'll do is we'll say sorry, then we'll put the originals back on the stores. And maybe that will get a lot of people to buy the older editions now that we have this new one that was, that's terrible. And we've made our money. I don't know. Reputation hit. It's fine. It's worth it. I appreciate the cynical perspective.  Probably. I think the reason that I'm taking the attitude I am is because it's so obviously terrible in terms of the like, it looks awful. Yeah. Because I agree. I agree. You're like, what is this? But like, is it, I mean, crazy things have happened, I imagine, where we're just, it's just like a series of comedy of ours, if you will. Like loads of people it went through just sort of went, this is fine. Like the rain, you know, some develop or game testers like, that rain looks a little bit weird, but it's fine. It's an old game being remastered. It's fine. Enough people say that. It's fine. There's a little problem. The rain is one issue, but a lot of atmospheric effects are taken out of all the games. Like GTA 3, the city looked really grimy and dark. You don't really get that anymore. It's all just generic, kind of flat lighting. Yeah, San Andreas. In San Andreas. Orange. Yeah, in San Andreas, you had this like low sunlight close to the horizon that would make everything like orange in the beginning cutscene, for example. And you had this like heat haze coming off of like the cement back in PlayStation 2. Right. And it looked really good. Like you get none of those effects anymore. Everything looks very flat. You get that Battlefield 5. What about Battlefield 5? Sorry. You get the heat mirages. Yeah. And the desert maps. It's probably the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. All that's gone. There's an attention to detail that is clearly lacking because they've outsourced this to a completely remote novice team. They use like an AI upscaler.  Just, yeah. There's an example. This is funny. In Vice City, there's a mission where you fly RC helicopters and drop bombs into a skyscraper to blow it up. And the van is, it says on the side, top fun in the original Vice City.  It's a plain toy company. But in Vice City, the F is written in cursive. So there's a loop at the bottom. But that was interpreted by this new Grove Street Games team as top bun. And so in the remastered edition, it says top bun like it's a bakery company. Even though it's still like the van that has the toy planes in it.  Like the gag? Like the AI doesn't get it. A lot of the jokes, though. Yeah. A lot of the jokes. The AI doesn't get it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't understand anymore. Our store. And it just doesn't work. Yeah. There's another. It was another example where you have a store and it's like a hardware store.  And the AI upscaler turned it into a circle.  See that. And what is supposed to be a giant like nut is actually just turned. It's just a cylinder now because it smoothed out the whole thing. At that point, you want to put this on just loads of old games and play them just to see what it does. So it's like a crazy AI modifier.  This is funny.   And the fact that they've increased the draw distance infinitely, but the spawn radius of cars is still as small as it has ever been. So like you can see all the way down the road, but like you're speeding down it, but cars will only fade in like at a fraction of like the distance. And so you got to swerve immediately. It makes you think no one played it. They just played the thing. For instance, like you talked about the rain earlier, the rain renders behind water. So if you are, if you are walking, if you're by any body of water and it's raining, there will be no rain effects on the water because the water will cover up the rain. A bunch of issues like that were shits around the right order in terms of layers. All the kind of stuff where maybe some guy didn't make a list and they were like, ah, oh, they would just, it's never got to them because I don't know. Well, they're rushed in time because maybe they go six months before they needed to get it out on time for the anniversary. Calls them a whole bunch of problems.  But I don't know.   I'm telling you, dude, like the movie industry probably wants to get in on this. Like, how do you do it? They can't get it on it. You can't patch movies, you know? Not yet, anyway. If you pre-order this movie... All the CGI... ...to X this. The CGI's unfinished. It's like great blobs. And it's like, we'll update it later. Yep. They're handled by teams who don't grasp any of the core intentions that went into the original version to these games. They don't have the passion. They don't care. They're just trying to get their job done. Yep, exactly. So is that it for game talk? Around exactly three hours? I want to touch on one thing before we move on about Halo. I noticed the slow XP progression. And that was before and after an update, like a 100 meg update I noticed it applied on Steam when I exited out. That I thought would speed it up a bit, but it's still the same problem.    Yeah, just find an experience. Yeah, then I learned in this discussion that it's, oh, because I didn't buy the Battle Pass. And I need to buy that if I want to speed things up.  And it just reminds me of like these practices that apply to a lot of game development now. Like micro transaction stuff, every menu has to have a shop tab.  Well, I'm assuming you're the same where once upon a time we had free to play and then it was like an aesthetic shop and the prices, because this is the scenario, right? If someone says it's free, you can play for free guys. Come on, they can do whatever you want. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. You don't agree with that.  So what is, what is a reasonable price? It's like, it's hard to say, but where they're sitting at right now feels gross. Oh yeah, I think it's $1 for white. $10 for decals, like for colors, 10 for colors, not even an armor set. Just colors. Colors that used to come with a base game. Right. If you want to do the free to play model, like a lot of MOBAs did, it's like you're supposed to offer full like crazy skins, all kinds of animations and particle effects and stuff that come with them. And that as a whole package would cost at most what like $15 for like the most elite and top ones. And those games were like full, just free. And that's how they made their systems for making money.  Like I don't know when that happened, but it's happened now. It's happened over the course of years by degrees gradually. What happened? Because I remember, I remember like back in 2013, when it was becoming, when games were starting to introduce micro, full price games, and there was a lot of pushback. And gradually over time, it's just become more and more accepted of like, well, yeah, games are going to have cosmetic microtransactions. Yeah, of course. And like, yeah, you know, the end battle passes. Yeah. It's okay if they're just cosmetic. Yeah, that's what it's become. It's more complex than that. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's definitely. They find the smallest incremental step they can where nobody's going to complain, but they can start slowly normalizing this shit and just add, build more and more on top of it. Battlefront 2 was a bridge too far in the wrong direction. That was what they found out there. We can't do it that way. So we need to figure out another way to do it. And battle passes, I feel have comfortably slipped into the category of. You have to wonder if Battlefield 2 hadn't bit the hands. I wonder where we'd be right now. Ah, we'd probably be. Battlefront 2, sorry. Man, oh, that'd be way worse than where we are now, I think. You have to wonder, right? Because it, do you remember the, there'll be ads like microtransaction free? Like it's not even, you haven't got them in this game for a little while. There was some games that ran on that. I remember God of War being celebrated because it had like nothing in it that you could do to give it more money. He was like, no, this is the game. You've bought the game. But here is the fundamental issue. God of War sold really well, but like it didn't make as much money as the course not. They wouldn't be doing this if it didn't work really well. Well, so that's because I'm working on a script that's kind of about this topic. You look at the money that Call of Duty Warzone like alone generates for Activision. We're talking like a billion dollars of just on microtransactions. There's a lot of losers in the world is what we're saying. Well, and Fortnite, I think makes like two billion dollars. Like these games single handed, I think the big one was Active EA made more money off live service microtransactions much more than they made from points of sale because of course they did. A skin, a digital skin in a video game that you sell for 10 bucks.  That would take like a week at most for someone to make and then you sell it and you can set the value of it because it's your ecosystem.  You can say whether it's rare or, you know, or super duper awesome and legendary. You can sell it for a pretty high price. And of course you're going to make so much money off of that. It's it's it makes so much money compared to all right, we're going to invest five years into developing this game that we only sell once and and the you know, the publisher takes like a huge cut. And then you've got the cuts through distribution, manufacturing, whatever storefront it's on. And hopefully enough people like it that we can justify that as opposed to here's a game. We already have that we release for free. So like millions of people play it and we can create these skins that we can turn over pretty quickly. We can set them at a really high price relative to the amount of work that had to go into it. We control the ecosystem. We get 100 percent of the profits because it's digital like hell, of course, of course. That's what that's what's going to happen. It's a great model for making money.  Yeah, they don't make that. Why do you think five is for in game content? Selling you the online crap? And what do you think? I guess it doesn't exist. Why do you think GTA is nearly it's eight years? Why do you think they haven't made GTA six?  You haven't figured out how to be better than they already are at it. So there's no point yet. If they figure out a big bit faster and better, they might do it. They will make a GTA six eventually. They will. But it'll also be a game where the majority of the money, despite the fact that Grand Theft Auto is like one of the best selling games of all time, it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of the money didn't even come from those sales, but it came through the microtransactions and stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Wouldn't surprise me at all. It's a really great model for making money. FIFA, I'm pretty sure single handedly made like a billion dollars for EA. So and again, it really frustrates me because you see like videos on this subject that almost off you skate reality where it's like, ah, look, FIFA's in trouble.   Like it doesn't it doesn't matter what we when we're talking about these things. It makes so much money. And then like, oh, country might legislate. It's like America ain't going to legislate it. Or even if it does, it's still going to be legislated in a way that is not totally detrimental to the model. Because there'll be enough interest to make sure that the model survives. It's it's it's it's done. It's over. It's it works too well. And maybe it was always over from the beginning because microtransactions prown a lot of like our failings as human beings. I need to be special and get my super duper armor set because I want to look cool. Even I'm a special aesthetic. Yeah, I'm special. I don't want to wait that long. I would just pay for it. And it's it's the aspect of you can. So it's sort of a match made in heaven.  You have these first person shooters and they'll be like, all right, I'll sell you this like apex legends, right. Pretty good battle pass, but everything else is trash when it comes to microtransactions. They're horrific. So oh yeah, I'll spend 20 bucks on one skin for one character in a game. That's a first person shooter game that I barely like never ever get to see really. And plus the only way to get it is to buy it and people know that. So when they see me in game, they'll just know that I just bought it. So it doesn't mean anything. So why am I but I'll still buy it because I just got to have it. And then of course there's FOMO fear of missing out on battle passes.  Oh shit, I need to play it now and get into the battle pass now or else I'm going to miss out and it's going to be locked away forever. Or alternatively, the story I always use because it was the one where it's like, God damn, I hate this. Well, like I wanted that, I wanted that Mercy witch skin in Overwatch, the Halloween one. So then I bought some loot boxes to try and get it.  Like you're wasting all this money to get this skin just because it's going to expire and then you won't be able to get it again. It's all of these things that like really take advantage of our failings of human psychology to make money. And I think that's the reason why I'm a lot more cynical about it now, like that it's done. Because I don't know, the only way to overcome it is that collectively millions and millions of people just have more willpower. I don't know, I don't see that. So it's cruise. This is definitely a bottom up problem. It's a bottom up problem. And there's no way that's, because remember, like when we talk about FIFA and those billions of dollars, we're talking about a lot of people who were just not engaged in the discourse. Like we're talking about people who don't know that there are videos on YouTube talking about this. They probably never heard of Total Biscuit or like any of these advocates. They just go and play the game and then they buy into it because they're not aware of the meta conversation about all of this.  They just play Call of Duty, they play FIFA. Oh yeah, I'll pay 15 bucks. I ain't buying any other games that has that knock-on effect that like this is the game that you need to make to make money. There is just way more demand for, don't you think it's a little bit too fetus to say that something can't won't change? It won't. It absolutely won't. There's no way. This model just makes too much money. It's not just a change it must be due. Like this whole, like I won't buy this stuff but that's because I'm principle and a lot of gamers just don't care. If they even think that, if they even are aware enough that there is a problem, they don't care. The reason why that makes me feel better and it's just 10 bucks, it's fine.  Now we're firing like pistol shots at it. It's like we've lost. Yeah, we're firing a lot less now. Yeah. I mean I'm cynical about it because I see it at my other friends. Sometimes they just buy stuff.  It's like, oh, great. Yeah, it's just thanks. Well, yeah, because we have a stitch because I bought the battle pass for this game and it's like, oh, would you, would you have bought it if you know about the progressions? Like I might have still because like even I can recognize that I might want that cool armor. And this is coming from someone who's like pretty hyper aware of of the microtransaction landscape and all of that. It is, it is, I used to think that it was like uncommon for people to pay for these things. Now I don't. I don't think it's uncommon. I always like the South Park. And so they're like, you know, we can make billions of dollars of micro payments for Maddox. Like who cares? You know, we're counting on game. Game model, yeah. Yeah. I don't even think it is counting on the people, the whales who spend like $10,000. But those whales who spend $10,000. Think about it this way.  Fuck, I need my calculator to figure that one out with my brain and even my brain at work and dozens of copies. So we got 10,000. And this is let's assume that they all paid full price and that all of that money goes to Sony, which is not the case. Unless we're talking digital. That is 166 people who bought that game to. And that is that is the best faith that Sony gets 100 percent of the money off of that game off of one guy who played FIFA and spends like $10,000. And the guy who did that is spending more. He ain't stopping there. Exactly. And there are a lot of people who are going to be doing that. And then, of course, you've got like the average person who spends more than 60 bucks on a game because you want that Captain Price skin. You want that crazy super duper overwatch skin. Yeah. As Tonyl would say, they are on planet Mars. Yeah. I was going to bring up that exact thing. You guys hit on it perfectly. I'll just add to it that it's gotten to the point now where these triple A development companies will have psychologists on staff as consultants. And they will make recommendations as to how to specifically design the UI to maximally exploit the reward centers of the brain. And you know for a fact that they also can they have concerns about people noticing. They'll be like, we want to want to try and avoid the battlefront to situation. Yeah. So they'll just be they'll be just as covert as they need to be about it. You want to avoid it because again, you don't want the situation to happen in like the Netherlands or wherever it was or Denmark where they actually want to start legislating it. Like you don't want that. Yeah. Yeah. We don't want to do that. We don't want to get legislated. Yeah. And so and that's it's the reason why when you had the loot boxes the way that it was was the loot box slam into the ground and make the thud sound then it starts rumbling. Boom. All these crazy colors. Fire with thuds. It's the same thuds that happen when you're playing Call of Duty where and now every game with hitboxes not hitboxes, hit markers. Don't don't like these sounds. It's like, like that's the reason why they do all of this. It is just dopamine overload. So much dopamine. And yeah, I'm not surprised at all when you say the psychologist coming. That doesn't surprise me at all. I have no doubt that that is why. Yeah. To not be too doomer about it.  It's flipped. It's only gotten worse. Yeah. It has flipped. Yeah. It's it's and those only work on smooth brains. No, they don't. They want every single human being every single human being is vulnerable to these sorts of things of like trying to get instant dopamine hits. That's why it's so effective. Yeah. Even even myself like if there's you know if it's really small maybe if there's like hey 50 pence and you can get this cool thing. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. It's it's it's very much. It's it's everybody. It's it's and that's the problem. I think that's the reason why I think that we're doomed on this in order to be effective against the model. You need to be hyper aware of your own psychology. Yeah. Like you as an individual your own psychology and the things that you're more susceptible to falling for. That's tough, man. And to get that across a whole industry. Nah, that's not happening. It ain't happening. Well, there's no way. Famously EA recently recently overstepped in this realm with Star Wars Battlefront. Right. With the loot boxes and people had enough and then they put that was that was specific. People temporarily had enough. That was right. I think at one time all I've now realized about that is I think we all perceive that as a victory. And it's like yeah. See look. Battlefront two felt and now got a war. Look at all those sales. And meanwhile you're just forgetting the whole landscape of like dude League of Legends. How much money does that make? Like every month. Like as much as God of War. Yeah. We've talked before. I had friends who just whenever there was new skins they just buy them and it's like do you even want them? And it's like yeah. I'll try them out. It's like you're paying so much money for these skins that you don't even. Yeah. Jesus. Right. And so I think that's what Battlefront two revealed to us. You loot boxes. I think that model. We don't want to do that as much anymore. We want to dial it away from that. We're definitely not doing game changing because medics. Hell yeah. Battle pass. Wait. So fear of missing out combined with getting people to buy into a system and still be able to buy things directly if they want to. Shit. That's a good system. Yeah. And we do free to play. We'll get more people to get in there. Less of a barrier to entry and potentially a much greater yield that we will get from those people rather than locking them off with the paywall to play. Damn. That's a good system. I don't know that any level of advocacy can you know counter the amount of money it makes. That's it. I just think that's where we're at. It doesn't matter how aware we are because broadly it is just super effective. Yeah. I mean what happened with the EA thing is like all of a sudden the line was drawn. And now all the companies are just like like the practices are still the same. It's just okay we can't cross this line.  Dude it wouldn't surprise me if give it like another 10 years and they will cross that same line and it won't have the same result because it'll just be so normalized. Right.  I don't mean because we're at a point now where it's like oh like 700 hours to unlock one skin or something you know for these guys. I mean in Halo it's just cosmetic. In Halo we're talking like 200 hours to finish the battle pass. Yeah probably. Yeah that's what I mean. We're just we're just inching every time with all these different games just just pushing a little bit. Right exactly. They'll push you. They'll push the line. The line's been drawn and they'll push it. And to keep this in mind this because I don't play much. I don't play Call of Duty or like I haven't played 2042. This system is probably not the worst one. The fact that it doesn't even expire where other ones do. This probably isn't even the worst one compared to other ones.  For bad.  We're all a part of a generation that just wants to grill but play games.  Unfortunately you can still look to your double A's in the indie games. Yeah. You can find the games that try to focus more on creating like a full a fully rounded experience where you don't need to pay extra money and stuff. Yeah. Definitely plenty of those still around. Like you were saying Mahler I feel like the doomer guy without the cigarette. I just don't smoke. Basically the doomer guy but like a step further where it's like the sunken eyeballs and the frazzled hair. Wojak. But I and I also. Sorry go ahead.     I get to choose to go around but nowadays you know for a fact that even if they made that which I don't even know that they would like a whole other character to play a campaign with you know it would cost money. They were like you can you can play the whole campaign again. But Castlevania I think Symphony of the Night It Was when you put in the name Richter and you just get to play as Richter the whole game it was like a whole complete moveset completely different gameplay. The ways you unlock like characters in all the Smash Bros. games I mean I'm assuming that's still intact right? That's not.  Like you kidding me? It was funny I think it was it was either real BBC or open Baba so instead of super chatted we had gotten to it but it said like like why is more of referencing video games you just placed children's ones and I'm like the children's games I play all of great practices when they were created okay?  I know what you do is you make people you make people enjoy the game so that when you release the next game they'll be like oh I enjoyed the last game I'll buy this new game. Yeah.  Yeah.  Maybe there is something to that comment though like children's games being they actually have to make the gameplay engaging slash fun because they can't rely on children to be using microtransactions. Yeah. Well I mean because I don't I guess we don't know the state of ledges on terms because microtransactions and loot boxes and stuff and you know excess I guess the problem is again like I'm pretty sure that like Fortnite and stuff are technically like not rated for kids but kids play the fucker well of course I mean kids I played Grand Theft Auto when I was a kid like kids are gonna play I played Mobile Combat when I was a kid why not? Yeah. It's all a big web and it's just being pushed on all different sides at all different times and then they cross over and eventually we're gonna have another battlefront too but I think people will be less upset this time around. Eventually we will.  Encouraging yeah because they benefit off that industry.  Ultimate team.  Ultimate team that's right. And this is this is where I get a lot of people. They love it.  Dude all my friends they buy every fee for a football manager and yes something because with an E uh isn't it pro evo? Pro evo that's the one yeah evolution.    It feels like there's some kind of subconscious awareness as well because some people seem like you need better friends like yeah but they were the same people who bought every new gears every new card every new halo and every time one of those came out it was more of an event and we all like scope the game out to see what it did change what is it better how is it worse blah blah the FIFA games be like oh yeah I picked up the new one yeah it's just it's slotted in my FIFA place where the other one was and now it's gone it's just like yep that's that and I because I'm I'm now I'm gonna go ultra-dumer now that I'm thinking about this because here we go everyone you have here we go I've still got points I want to hit but go ahead yeah so now's the time your bathroom breaks everybody I get really upset you see an example of like a high-profile live service game failure like Avengers and people will cite that as like ah see now people want gamers have rejected the model yeah no they want single player like that new Guardians of the Galaxy game yeah and it's like now see for every high-profile failure like Avengers you have the massive profound successes that more than make up for that for that like shortfall everybody wants to get their toes in there and people look and you saw it when when we found out when Ubisoft said that they're going to shift away from doing three to four like big games each year to live service and people like ah that's stupid it's like it ain't stupid it's gonna work whatever that Assassin's Creed live service game is that's probably going to make them more money than they ever made on any Assassin's Creed game ever and if it doesn't something else will if that fails something else will make the money it'll be like the next I don't know like fucking Ghost Recon or whatever they make we ain't getting Splinter Cell we ain't getting like a Splinter Cell game like that anymore because it just stays it worth it it's not worth it you're gonna you're gonna get a better return on investment by focusing on on making some live service Assassin's Creed or Far Cry or whatever or like in the same Ghost for Square Enix I'll give it another shot of course they will you want to have one of those games because it makes so much money by comparisons making like Deus Ex or something because for as successful as this Guardians game is and I hope it is by the sounds of it this really could it's still not going to make as much money in its lifetime as like Call of Duty Warzone makes in a month in a in a week maybe even it's just it's just a really effective model and then those devs get wiped out and replaced the people who are willing to well Crash Bandicoot 4 that was a really cool game and then later on Toys for Bob yeah we're gonna be supporting Warzone it's like fuck like you made a really cool game but it didn't matter it didn't matter that they made a really cool game that probably did okay because it's like okay for what four years three or four years of development time a huge investment up front we can just get those guys to make Warzone and that'll make us more money overall it just feels really weird to have lived through the entire like arc if you know what I mean because we were old enough we were there when all these things first got introduced and we've seen them get more and more pervasive that's just how it's happened yeah Timmy you don't understand things used to be different the only pay-to-win thing that we had back in the day was cheat magazines where you got all the cheat codes yeah yeah yeah the team strategy guides and stuff like that yeah the thing is there is there are so many great people would say I'm not like games aren't getting worse overall no they're not no they're not it's these it's the it's that this AAA level is a minefield it is there's still really good AAA games that are made by good companies you just have to like check and make sure and you have to avoid all the horrific ones and there is a thriving indie and AA level market that is is just waiting for your dollar like we like like the games I've been playing lately Deep Rock Galactic we have put a lot of time into that game and it is a blast it is super fun I would highly recommend that you play that game with your friends it is charming and full of vibrant life and it's got so much character in it and the season back the the quote-unquote battle pass it's all free they just threw one in yeah I just level up and do the challenges and we'll just give you this whole tree of stuff to unlock just as an extra bonus for it on top of all the stuff that's already in the game and go and play that one well and a big reason why they can do that just to just to make that point clear is you got these indie devs like what Activision EA Ubisoft Square Enix like these the publicly traded companies they have shareholders they huge overhead they have massive overhead they have like this is their job their job is to maximize uh revenue that's their job is what they're supposed to do whereas like with an indie dev you don't really have those those types of pressures you can make the decisions that won't make you the most amount of money just because you want to you know it's more of a focus on individuals who are doing something that feels like they really want to do that's channeled in a way that they really feel you know yeah worthwhile to do they just they don't have to make the most money possible like Microsoft they do Sony you know like you you're soft Activision to be fair as well because like I'm assuming you guys are at least vaguely familiar with like the genre of clickers or idle games right yeah yeah so correct me if I'm wrong isn't cookie clicker like one of the earliest ones that made it big I think so it's often one that's cited and then you've got one of the early ones as well was adventure capitalist now those two games they've grown completely differently like cookie clicker is extensive it has its own law I don't know if you know this videos made exactly what it means basically you could upgrade grandmas to make cookies if you upgrade them enough they turn into Lovecraftian creatures and they start to rebel against your oh my goodness it's it's a great you have an army of grandmas yeah yeah and so the obviously the game's basic satisfaction is you click 10 times and you buy a thing it means you get the same amount if you click nine times now it's like oh click nine times it's like buy another thing now you can get a grandma making some cookies in the background and you go go go go it's all just like everything gets quicker and easier and so it's just like that's the fun of it the thing is that game is like pre-built for micro transactions it's like easy you could just change everything to cost money and they do that in adventure capitalists all of the things you can do in that game I think you have an option to use real money to make it faster but cookie clicker doesn't and it still doesn't and this is what Jay told me so I can't necessarily confirm it beyond that but Jay said that the only monetization cookie clicker has is them the devs have a patreon and you can buy their shirts and I was just like cookie clicker is incredibly popular they could have thrown even the smallest amount of monetization right one dollar and you get a hundred times cookies easy stuff but they didn't and it's the I guess what I'm saying is Fringis talking about like the pressures that some people have it's just like yeah very true but there are some people who just choose to do it because they can and there's people who are like I refuse to add a principle and it's just like man we need more of those those people you know like yeah I had the discipline to draw that line for themselves and they won't cross it and the best you can do is encourage it like the I feel like we make a small difference by talking about this have I regularly some people say it was very doomy we're worth the good punished bad he fabbers just like we've covered this every once in a while it's something that we all find upsetting we all wash total biscuit back in the day and it's only gotten worse and yeah it's it's hard not to be doomer about it because there ain't there ain't gone back like there's no I get really frustrated when I see this almost this idea that like it's possible to return back to the old way it ain't happening and so I think that the better approach to fixing this problem is to recognize that the situation we're in which is just that frankly these games are incredibly good at making money much more so than the games that I think a lot of people would prefer to play and so it's just being more aware of that and then targeting your advocacy with that in mind with the knowledge that Call of Duty Warzone Fortnite League of Legends like the model this model is really effective as opposed to almost like tricking yourself into thinking no actually this is unpopular and what's really popular is like Sony third person action adventure games because look at how well got a war sold it just feels like you're not really going to get good results in terms of advocacy if you just fucking have a perspective that is just incorrect like fundamentally incorrect about the nature of this landscape Yeah, best to understand a lot of it but again with like the pushing the line if the next model combat comes out and like every fight that starts up you're able to press Y three times and it spends one dollar in your wallet and you get like 50% extra health just stuff and I think everyone would be like that's fucking insane what have they done it's like I wonder how long it'll be before that isn't insane though Yeah that's what gets me worried it's just accepted that the people willing to spend the most money are the ones who are just going to be doing better Yeah, because I can I can be okay with with this I can be okay with these skins I can accept that I don't like the way that it is right now and I'd like it to be better but I can accept that I don't want to be in the we see this big graph with the line going down we're more so concerned about where this is going less like if this were the worst of it we'd probably be like all right it's okay we can deal with this Okay, sure now as opposed to it could get worse where it's paid for like gameplay altering things I can see that future I can see that future we're battlefront so as a distant memory I can see that that scares the hell out of me Well that mortal combat scenario you just described it sounds funny but that's not that far away from like coin operated arcade machines which has already happened and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if we went back to that in some form for home consoles you know what I mean Wasn't it World of Tanks is like there was a golden tank you can buy with just more money and it'll just have more power and stuff like that that's the good old fashion one that everyone hates where it's just like you can pay and then you'll be better than everyone else it's like no I think it was it wasn't where there is the interesting thing is that's what would get a lot of players to buy but also put a lot of them off and now I think that they've just tried to transfer over strictly to aesthetics in that got to make these things people really got to get them to buy maybe maybe even option for content just avoid you want to avoid giving any kind of damage buffs because that'll really piss people off quick and if you wanted every person who buys that unfair damage buff it will cause X amount of players to just stop playing and never spend money so just sell skins instead and also though something that has been talked about by people that I'm now just remembering it doesn't matter whether you buy into that system it affects your games because operators that's because of this because of skins that's the reason why operators are so popular now because people want crazy super skins for operators so then it affects the gameplay you don't have classes anymore you have specialists and also just affects art styles as well like the death of art styles in these games where you have these crazy skins that don't match at all yeah like um like I wouldn't be surprised vanguard despite being a world war two game ends up having these crazy weapon skins that are super colorful and that game has red dot sights because you know you probably want your crazy red dot sight skin things that you used to be able to unlock by playing the game like in black ops too yeah it bleeds into other aspects of the game of course it will and if they want to eventually implement these ridiculous scenarios like what you describe mall are paying for more health what would be the most the most efficient way to get that started make the game free and so when I heard that halo infinite multiplayer was going to be free a bunch of people were like wow it's free oh my god my initial reaction to that was my eyes roll back in my fucking head because I was like I know what you're doing you don't fool me for a fucking second oh no someone in chatter said that this be leaked that vanguard's going to have captain america and indiana jones it's so done in the world war two game media captain america was around in world war two media was indiana it's this big blob now everything is everywhere yeah like in your cousin fortnight it's like hey look aloy from horizon is coming to this game it's like two rick sanchez and thanos gonna team up and that or is adds tomb right lara croft add resident jill valentine and captain america and yeah I think they're doing a matrix thing as well so of course of course they are the matrix yeah before them neos skins oh metaverse so what's that was that is like yeah metaverse that's the future when we're living in virtual reality world where people are just captain america and like one to woman you're ready to play a one lara croft yeah run it around I look at me I'm scorpion that's me get over here going to work just get those reports over here all right go to work sub zero sitting at a computer typing away just like fuck when's it gonna be five jesus yeah people are just the most lamest losers ever who are dressed up as these ridiculously badass warriors and then they open their mouths and it's like hey guys how are you doing guys you know yeah emion emion use with the work my uh there's a traffic I'm like for work I I got I got stuck there in the shower as far as because I'm sub zero when will they be a shrek skin in halo how long oh a shrek helmet yeah well that's exactly shrelmet that's acceptable a shrelmet we're adding that we're finally we're adding a swamp map to celebrate the release of shrek unlock the shrelmet by winning on the swamp map they got that little opening thing where you do your animation with shrek it'll be him yelling get out of my swamp I'm not gonna lie kind of on that now he wants a dog well that's that's why that's why it's never going away joey joey's funny though I think what we were just about to do there was the way it used to be where it's like you start it's like DLCs and expansions remember them you pay money and you get content remember that yeah yeah that was great I'm not saying they're all gone don't get me wrong it's just the when we like we mess around that we have like a swamp level that there's like animations and effects and actually specific things that happen in a voice pack and then maybe even a co-op level you're like oh we've just we've just gone from aesthetics into like actually content now that would be cool yeah yeah and that was it's the meme it's the meme that used to go around whereas the Mona Lisa and then like it had you know chopping it up and I think that's what I find interesting is our bar for what was unacceptable just it just keeps shifting it just keeps shifting like it used to be it used to be that we got annoyed that there was a season pass for Call of Duty that added a substantial amount of content post launch in the way of maps that used to upset us that that was like and of course pre-order bonuses but like god damn with pre-order bonuses like at least there was a whole bunch of content in the game that you had now whereas now with Halo Infinite you start it up you got one armor set and it's going to take you 200 hours to get all of them and you can't mix and match in the way you want and you can't do the skins the way you want it's like that's what we're at now and they can push the line faster and farther with a free-to-play model and it won't be absolutely right last game to do it there'll be more games doing it and then you know where to go you complain about these tactics that they're doing and the zoomer defense force comes out and they're like oh you're you're you're complaining about a free game you realize that don't you it's a free game it's like well yeah I guess all this stuff is fine then you fucking douche like you know that scene in chicken you know that scene in chicken run where they pour all the feed into the troughs and everyone's like stuffing themselves and the I can't remember the woman chicken she runs around it's like they're fattening you up don't you see don't you see what they're doing I feel like that character you know what I mean it's so what we need to do is we need to make a giant makeshift flying machine so that we can fly to Mars and create a new video came in just three that's the way to do it and meanwhile we're gonna have like the embodiment of EA clinging to the and you know what you know what it would all start over again because we'd go back like strict rules zero micro transactions but then eventually like but DLCs and expanses are okay you're like yeah cool and they go my DLC has just one level and a lot of skins that are right you're like yes like it'll be we're getting closer to the line it's just going to be like in in in rick and wardy where they're like all right no purging and then they leave and it's like all right well I hey I can make the bread but I want something going to they accidentally stumble across capitalism don't they yeah and then they just they immediately start trying to kill each other it's like wait all right look one night a week we should just get our anger out yeah and then we're just back to it again yeah let's think is it horse armor from oblivion yeah god damn remember that horse armor because that's the thing it would be it would be absurd but it would save everybody if we just said you get to charge once and it's a complete package and that's it like nothing else yeah yeah and they're like I have cool ideas for DLC it's like unfortunately you ruined it we trusted you we can't be trusted we can't dispel as much power on human beings me and mortals do not have the capacity to make games with DLC because they're always going to do this on top of all the transaction stuff I hate having to fucking sign in to an end oh yeah I don't like that every game yeah you have to do that every game is all white you gotta use your Microsoft account I mean I usually don't accept that shit but like I've been using Windows since the 95 edition and so I've always used my Microsoft account for like I use it now for like obviously Windows and then one drive and one note so I'm already using it a lot and so fine I'll sign in to Halo for it I guess but I fucking hate it well there's your uh you've just reminded me of something remember when Titanfall was like a multiplayer only online game and that upset everybody and now like many games online only right and you have to sign in and we don't care yeah I think that's a big one that you have to sign in that used to be like a thing we would vehemently complain about now it's just an accepted aspect of a lot of games right just keeps nudging forward through these these little bits and bobs all over the place until eventually you've been boiled yeah it's exact right exactly the frog like the the lobster in the tub and they're like hey buddy you might have been turned off the heat whoa it was too hot okay all right I'll dial it back down and you just start slowly turning it up and you're like I feel dead now oh I'm dead yeah start screaming a battlefront two was when they turned it up too high you're like ah I'm dying I'm just like okay buddy hey no no no buddy don't worry about it I don't know I'll turn it back down but you didn't turn it back quite as low as it was before it's still a little bit higher you just don't notice because you were so you'll get used to it you'll get used to it yeah and they use this soft loaded language like when you're when you before you've signed into Halo Infinite it says let's get you signed in yeah I fucking hate that it's because it's like the implication is like this is just the way it's done you want to play the game you just got to sign in so let's let's we'll help you do that let's just I want to sign into it I signed into it that's not have you got I don't think any of you guys have seen Silicon Valley have you no no um well there's a joke where uh there's a character called Gilfoyle who's like he's he's he's kind of ah not really a doomer but he's he's got like a cynical outlook and and there's a part where they have a smart fridge and uh so it's a fridge that has an AI system that logs food and one of the characters stands in food and then it's like ah there it is and it's like dude it's bad enough that it has to talk does it need fake vocal tics like ah and one of the characters says well it just sounds more human he's like humans are shit we're like dumbing down technology we're like solving problems that don't even exist and then and then if you say something like yeah you know my uh my server doesn't call me anything it grimly does its work and then sits motionless until it's time to work again yeah we we need to make the technology sound more human instead of just being matter of fact like just doing things I don't know who came up with a quote but it said like in terms of technology it used to be smart people on dumb terminals and now it's smart terminals being operated by dumb people like because of the spread of technology and the advancement and so it just has to mass appeal came in and yeah this is where we are whoosh yeah let's get you signed in it's not just sign in let's let's who's let's you're a computer right it's just soft cushy friendly language to get you on board with the whole process okay I'll just sign in then we made we made a few changes with a smiley face it's like yeah just give me a little well imagine you had right yeah imagine a tail of eight AI the AI is like you gotta sign in apparently it's bullshit but yeah yeah it's like the AI versions of those characters and uh and halo went for the the little AI companions you little yeah I'd prefer that just oh dude yeah others the only ones who seems like you'd actually exist I like sir I like sir I really like dude like it's fun the sock cat like sock cat you play for a hundred hours the little AI goes you've unlocked gray right holy shit and you're gonna shop to that you hear the AI snickering like like just yeah you already unlocked black and white and now he has to unlock gray every once in a while it's just like you're still playing okay yeah like the AI judges you it actually I want that I want the AI to criticize me so it's like wow signing in again there's like the 10th times today Jesus all right let's get you signed in he's like oh you did pretty well imagine how well you could have done if you could aim this is a better world advocating for I have for one welcome our robot overlords all right do it I'm not even meaning I'm serious just get them in here maybe they can make a better halo yeah maybe that well maybe they could yeah and they like but let's just say like it takes a long time to unlock shit you really think that's a good idea wow you got a you got a a challenge swap wow again wow think of the opportunity yeah I haven't seen Silicon Valley yet but I've always been meaning to watch it because I figure it is all about that stuff where like I hate like that whole world of app development or I imagine it sucks Silicon Valley it's mainly just making observations about basically just the tech industry the tech bubble and and and sort of all of the developments there it's it's a really cool show made by the going mad king of the hill Mike judge yeah uh yeah I know that yeah I big fan super funny lots of interesting and fun observations about technology and it's place in society social media apps are particularly that gregis with the shit like the the way they design Twitter and Facebook like literally like yeah machines where you're pulling down on the screen constantly to refresh the feed it's just like it's just like a casino well yeah it's not waiting for that everything's round and soft yeah yeah so everything is fucking designed to exploit you like and now it's games now and it like I'm just trying to play a game and it wants me to sign in and it's doing all the shop crap and I'm like can you please just stop trying to stick your fucking dick in my ass and let me play the thing that I bought like I bought burnout paradise and I want to be a sign in and I'm like suck my fucking dick will you please doom doom eternal makes me fucking sign in thankfully it only makes me sign in the one time and then it auto-signed in but I fucking see that every time I see that automatic sign-in process at the beginning it's like I just want to play the offline campaign mode I shouldn't have to fucking do this bullshit it's funny you brought up because you're right like Twitter and stuff they are specifically designed probably with psychologists coming in to tell them how to maximize the amount of time that people spend on these services and of course where you know like that's that's part of the it's just more and more we are fine-tuning and I think this is the stuff where it's like guys you gotta understand humans like we're really we're really easy to to predict our behavior and like make us do things we are figuring more and more out about how to manipulate human beings to do exactly what we want them to do and that's just a part of yeah that's a part of the model now and we're gonna have AI that are gonna know you better than you know yourself get ready for that it's uh yeah it's coming the metaverse like that I I mean you know it's funny because we meme about it it's like that's probably where we're heading yeah online world where everybody's hooked into these ecosystems and yeah and we're all drooling as we OD on bliss yeah wow yeah that's right it's gonna I get really annoyed with these like ex like Facebook employees for example who like they quit the company and then they're like they're this they have this insider knowledge which is like oh the stuff they're doing over there I help them build it and you know it's really bad and they're exploiting people and I'm like am I supposed to look up to you as some kind of fucking hero like this is your fault you fucking idiot like thanks but and now you like come out and you're like oh it's really bad I'm trying to shed a light on this thing like maybe you shouldn't have done it in the first place contributed to this shit like oh my god so fucking salty about all of this it's a scary scary world and halo infinite has helped just remind me because I don't play these multiplayer games like this that often yeah because I was relatively out of the loop and so when I was just looking around the menus and stuff when I stumbled across the is do you have a wallet menu I was like yeah yeah yeah that's right it's like you gotta add fortunately halo infinite seems to not do the thing that a lot of other games do where the amount of credit you buy does not align up properly with uh with how much it will cost to buy skins oh yeah you know how they do that where they sell you you know a thousand dollar back but then it's eight hundred dollars for the lowest skin it's like cool now I've got leftover money and they also do the thing where it's like five dollars gets you five thousand points and you're like whoa that's pretty good and also the more you spend the more points you get you know it it goes up you know if you spend a hundred fifty dollars you'll get like fifty billion points you'll even you'll probably be able to afford all of it until you release even more stuff because you bought it and well know you'll pay this much so um uh I was reading it it it double pisses me off with the video game industry because it the video game industry used to be neglected before it was the biggest money making industry in the world um I was reading about like E3 a long time ago before it was E3 it was like a much broader tech exposition show more video games was a very small subsection back when they were like they had a us like a what do you call it a booth for the Sega Genesis when it first came out like before it was first released and it was outside out in the rain and they were talking about how like they were trying to like attract attention but like there was all these like obstacles in the way of like the booth and like the people coming in and you know it was just such a humble kind of neglected industry and it was full of people who like they really cared about what they were making and they wanted to make a fun product even though they weren't getting all this success yet but but then it started taking off right and you have all these big you know tycoons and money makers going oh this is going somewhere there's a shitload of money to be made in all this and now they've completely taken over and ruined the whole fucking thing and now I'm super jaded and I hate gaming now and I constantly think back to the time and in the 90s like I'm I'm always reminded now that the best years have come and gone and it's never going to be like that again and it's it's makes me really fucking legit sad it ain't just gaming buddy it's a lot of things yeah it's a lot of different things right well the amalgamation of media ownership and things like that and it's all factors the the figuring out of basically the the best ways to maximize profits because it's become such finely tuned machine whereas it used to be that people would make cool things and hope that if they liked it enough that would be it but now it's a little bit clearer I mean look at marvel like that's that is them having cracked the code of how to basically pump out movies and TV shows that they know people watch star wars getting back on that track too now figuring out exactly what to do it's become a very it's it's it's become less so at least in those spaces about hey this is a really cool idea I haven't hopefully people like and want to spend money on now it's much more clear what you need to do yes and what you need to do is kind of lame yeah just mass produce this tv shows us the cool new thing that everyone's doing right that's why yeah exactly and I find it amusing that you have that little thing where it's like hey look where the boys power in disney plus day the boys on amazon prime that happened yeah they did they're the boys disney plus the boys get away without all the fucking time when people are like oh it's so funny when it makes fun of world culture it's like it literally did the thing it was making fun of with the girl thing like I don't understand boys get away with it all the time I don't know yeah it's just like it's got it's using you know how like I shouldn't say this but like you know like pours an aesthetic for a lot of political people like what they're trying to get leverage it's like in that game edgy is an aesthetic they are using to do whatever they actually want to do right it's like look at us we swear we have loads of blood and guts we have like this and but there's certain things they will not do because it's all hollow in reality we're not going to have our racist Nazi say the n-word because we're not really we're not actually edgy we're not actually edgy we're just a veneer of edge and yeah obviously point being TV shows and movies have the exact same problem in terms of motivation just destroying and just an attempt to find the perfect formula that ends up creating the worst art ever it creates the this like monster you know sludge sludge no you're right the big the marvel the big disney machine it's all the same fucking shit and I know I realized that this is a great segue into spider-man but just before we do that I wanted to touch on one last thing on halo because it made it was this made me think of like what it is that I've always liked about halo I was because all this stuff about infinite I was thinking like well because halo's halo infinite's fine it's it plays really well better than I thought it would but I was like it's not the same as it used to be and I'm like well why isn't it quite the same and it made me realized that a lot of my favorite memories of halo don't actually have much to do with the game itself it was just like the the friends I had at the time and the limited amount of technology because when I played halo one on xbox it was great great campaign and it had this really solid multiplayer but no xbox live integration yet and you could invite people over and do split screen and that was super fun but there was this knowledge that like oh if we got like three other xboxes if we knew like a bunch of other kids and we could get three xboxes together and hook them all up we could have 16 players on like blood gulch right and there was one day where we did actually do that we had a whole house full of people this is one of my favorite gaming memories of all time that I have and it makes me really sad to think about because I know it will never be this good again but we had a house full of people and everybody knew each other like everyone was on like a first name close like friend basis and we divided ourselves up into teams and we would switch the teams up and like there'd be an xbox in separate rooms like an xbox in each room and there'd be like cables all over the floor and we'd divide ourselves into teams of four obviously because it's four players per xbox and we'd order pizza and we'd play like a big capture the flag game and you'd hover your cursor over other players and you knew who every player was that you found in the game because like their username would appear over their avatar and it's like oh that's that guy I know like he plays like that that's like you wouldn't even have to like see the name tag sometimes you could just observe the way they play and it's like oh that's that guy like you know I'll kill him and he'll get really mad and then you know the game will end and then we'll kind of like converge into one room in the living room or the kitchen or something and mingle it was so much fun it's such a fucking glass yes and then between that and xbox live there was a there was actually a way to play online through programs like xbox connect and xlink chi which would basically trick your console into thinking it's playing on a wide area network instead of instead of a land and sometimes we got that working but it was super fucking laggy but even though it was laggy it was just like kind of amazing that we were playing halo on the internet and like when xbox live first came out there was this awkward period where halo was xbox's killer app and they put xbox live out but there was no halo on live yet not until halo 2 and it took a while for halo 2 to come out and take advantage of that and so then halo 2 came out and it came I got halo 2 and it had the headset and I was so fucking excited and even though it wasn't like the same it wasn't quite the same as the halo 1 experience because you know you were limited to like the land thing and all of a sudden like even the xbox the first xbox live experience and halo 2 was magical in its own way because like like I was touching on before everyone was much more communicative back then because like the xbox live package came with the headset it was plug and play you plug it into the controller it just works you don't have to fuck around with anything there's no bluetooth or you know enabling sound devices on windows or any bullshit like that that just gets in the way it just plug and play and it just works and you had all this like chatter and a lot of it was really mean and toxic but you didn't care because it was just like well we're playing online and we're all talking to each other and like this is so fucking crazy and I have the screen to myself that was a huge thing right it's like I'm playing multiplayer but I have the TV to myself and that that was mind blowing back then and it's never been quite the same since then Halo 3 came out and I'm like this is cool I'm really enjoying this but it didn't quite meet the heights of Halo 2 or the first Halo in their own unique ways but it was fine and then you know Bungie stopped developing them Heat 343 took over Halo 4 came out and the online was okay but I really started drifting away from it and losing interest and the whole online Xbox Live experience started to really deteriorate like I guess I guess that's what human beings do you know they they they're overexposed something and then they they take it for granted and it's like oh it's not that special anymore because yeah I get it we're it's just we're online and it's a bunch of avatars and and there I don't know there wasn't the sense of community I didn't I wasn't really feeling that anymore but maybe that that was just me getting older you know what I mean and not being as immersed as I used to be and then Halo 5 came out and was like oh I don't fucking care anymore and now here we are with Halo Infinite with the free to play fucking bullshit and I play online and it's fun but nobody's talking I had one person talk to me on Halo Infinite I was because I'm I'm recording footage for Master Chief Sucks at Halo Infinite I'm making another dumb fucking video and recording all this footage and I'm jotting down any time I finish a match I jot down some jokes where it's just like oh that happened in the game that was funny I can probably turn that into a joke with some dialogue and live action footage and so I get into this turret on a warthog and there's a guy driving and there's a an enemy player comes up to us with a gravity hammer I don't see him and the guy with the gravity hammer kills us and the driver got mad at me and he said why didn't you fucking shoot him you're on the fucking gun shoot the motherfucker that was the closest thing that was the moment that closest came to like you know that original feeling of playing like Halo 2 or 3 or something like that where I was just oh wow someone engaged with me it was really mean and but that kind of brought back war memories it was really weird and so I was like oh I can probably I can use this for like material for like Master Chief sucks at Halo but then I realized I didn't have a headset or my microphone plugged in so I'm like fuck I can't respond to him so I brought the team chat up and I typed sorry I was shooting a load onto your mom's ass and then but it bleeped out all the words like the phrase shooting a load was all censored out with um number signs and I'm like fuck that's weird because the words shoot and load are both like associated with gunplay so I wonder if it's reading the phrase shooting a load and then like they type that in manually in their like blacklist of like words that are not okay can't say shooting your load and then I realized like in this M rated game yeah I thought nowadays I'm like fuck is that even like cool anymore like am I gonna get reported in band for like writing that because I've made halo an unsafe place for some fucking you know triggered person out there on the same mat yeah and it's just like oh fuck maybe I shouldn't do that anymore and and it reminded me of like halo two where people were saying all this heinous shit but nobody cared and it wasn't it wasn't actually rooted in hatred it was just people fucking around because everyone knew like everyone was anonymous and just like trying to have a good time and yeah you know talking trash fucking such a big deal they just don't want to it's not worth it to just talk to a lot of people you're gonna get reported you're gonna get banned you're gonna get suspended because some little fucking asshole is like oh you you said you said I was bad at video games me I'm gonna report you to my that's only gonna get worse too yeah like this I'm just gonna only talk to my friends too yes so that that was my little halo story that I wanted to touch on before we moved on it was nice and depressing to every pray but do we're in we're in a different world now and I don't know how to handle it it makes me very sad I feel like Arbina chief is I struggle with the idea that it's like a relic at this point you know of a time gone by do I feel like we're relics yeah it's like maybe the show oh oh the line it's awesome walking feel like we're more ghosts and people yeah and I was I didn't mean to bum I was hoping to actually I was hoping that that would be interpreted as kind of like a positive nostalgic well yeah it's just fond memories of oh yeah absolutely well yeah and you yeah you're the generation above mine presumably because I know that all of my friends that are just as do me about this as I am would cite halo three is like a major high point they're like you know three was incredible to a lot of them and that will never get that back I remember what a warfare two was like a high point for uh halo three moment two cod four and gears of war two they were like the cycle of games we played gears of war two was my favorite out of the lot but it wasn't because it was the best or these just that's how it just played out and everyone had their preference but man that was a fun fucking time just saying the style just a hell of a drive I'm just thinking about this that we have reached the point where somebody would look at like somebody somebody is just came out like 2013 or something there was somebody in the world who looks at all the duty ghosts and there's like man those were the days and I can't fathom that they're like oh yeah those were the last of uh yeah that was the last loss yeah battlefield four came out in 2013 chat just said in 15 years kids will say fortnight they'll never get anything like this good again those people should like oh no I think you're right about the generational thing because like I I remember going around rental stores like renting Genesis cartridges oh yeah yeah that's beyond my time yeah I'll ever rent the couple of games that was yeah that was definitely I want to you know I I have those shops with my dad all the time but uh as a child sounds good shit well I my vision and I was just VHS as we had like mountains of VHS as now I'm looking at like fuck that was dinosaur times wasn't it yeah I remember that like all the rental stores I went to they're all close now I saw them all go down and I was like fuck and you look at your hands and they're all wrinkly and you're like I'm getting a wave of nostalgia now remembering we were sitting down on a Saturday morning flipping through ps2 disc just you know yeah finding the case that I wanted to play it's like oh yeah I can play or like GameCube it's like you know Mario Kart Double Dash whoa yeah talking about like the perfect like AI sensations from whatever in whatever thing happens in the future imagine they can take you back to stuff like that to make you reexperience simple ricks simple ricks simple ricks is literally that yeah on a Saturday morning playing playing Ratchet Clank 3 just like just like simple ricks and it's it's 9 p.m your friends just all logged on you all all not you've been on playing for a while and you're all just doing that multiplayer got you food and drinks comfy perfect temperature and you're having some great games all in a row simple ricks yeah or even just sitting in the back of the car playing Mario Kart Super Circuit of the Game Boy just like ah ah no they can't handle it all right where games were a complete package on a on a hard cartridge like a physical cartridge and there wasn't any fucking day one patches where it had to fix some and they fucking worked fucking error yes it just worked because they did quality assurance and they made sure it was functional before they fucking put I mean there was a lot of absolute ass cartridge games that were released for like any ass and and yeah shit like they weren't usually the fucking mainstream hundred billion dollar games or anything though like yeah but now it's just it's a fucking joke like I I got suckered into buying the GTA definitive edition that made me fucking angry because I was stoked toward it too I was just like oh man there it's gonna have GTA 3 Vice City San Andreas with the weapon wheel and like free aim and not like kind of archaic like going back to ps2 it's it's a little clunky going back to those original games the way they originally played but I was just like well man they're doing all this like the the switch version has like the gyro controls like this is gonna be fucking awesome it's like dude are you fucking serious yeah that's that's that's pretty unreal I'm like really worried about it and they have the gall to to remove the original versions off of steam and the rock star launcher and sue the the devs the people who are doing the the modders yeah yeah oh yeah the games they completely reverse engineered the source code for GTA 3 Vice City San Andreas and they they rebuilt it and made it play buttery smooth no frame rate cap with like free mouse aim you didn't get that with like the original the original games as they you know the the rock star releases and they weren't doing anything to improve them and all but all these modders were making it play beautifully and it they weren't even profiting off of it because you still needed to buy the original version to make those work because like like they had all the assets but like they rewrote all like the the engine from scratch but it still needed the assets from the the purchase of the original games and I heard that the devs are suing rock star back with their own suit because the it was non-profit and the the work that they did was transformative and therefore protected under us copyright something like that yes no good luck to them yes yeah I'm hoping to hear more about that I hope they I hope they get something I hope they can even the modders were fixing the definitive edition like they removed the original versions and all their mods all that modding work and then they released the dog shit definitive edition and then the modders came back like some abused girlfriend it's just you know it's like okay we'll fix this now too take us back please everything's such dog shit now the nintendo fucking online expansion expansion like more than double the price for essentially a bunch of ROMs which were worse than the actual last yeah that's the emulation that's not yeah the game even worse than the Wii U emulation which apparently was trashed because it was all muddy and the fog effects weren't rendered properly and the shaders and multi textures weren't rendered properly which is which is weird I don't know why that happened because I I remember that the Wii emulation was actually pretty solid and worked really well I remember playing a lot of Wii U emulation with an old friend of mine back in the day we got like old SNES and N64 games and it's like here pay five bucks and now you can play this whole game forever it's like oh man that is good I like that and now we have this yeah everything's so lazy and the original intent is lost because you have all these new people who don't know what the fuck they're doing yeah and I mean Nintendo should know better but even their fucking lazy as shit with their with that dog shit expansion and their poor emulators I mean Mupin in parallel do have have done a much better job the past few years emulating in 64 than you'd think Nintendo would fucking be able to perfect that shit but apparently not everything's so fucking lazy and you know a cash grab and I so ready to say is when you when you actually play something and everything is like yeah this is all good yeah if that happens usually not mainstream AAA yeah I was gonna say it's normally some indie or double A game maybe but man or it's like something if something is kind of buggy and rough but you could tell they're trying to make something that's kind of big and expansive for their size you're like okay all right I'll it's like how you get okay I see what you're doing oh this is kind of jank man I wonder what's this going it's like oh this is made by three people in a fucking living room or whatever it's like oh yeah maybe they eat some more time yeah it's funny seven days to die doesn't look very good as it is sort of like graphics and stuff they're getting they're getting it to look a lot better than it used to it doesn't look so bad now but it was always very mechanically rich there was always stuff to do and everything was interactable and there's tons of items and stuff and things to craft to whatnot so like that's fine that it looks like crap honestly because you're always doing stuff there's always stuff to kind of do it's just full of things that I can interact with it's not just pretty and I look at it and that's that mm-hmm you're people being like oh everything's going down and flavors like well but this is always been our perspective of the gaming industry we just don't often as much talk about it compared to movie industry there's so many examples of mainstream fucking disasters for gaming as well as movies um but I mean I don't know yeah I feel like gaming's in a better place than movies are there's still lots of really great yeah yeah I think I think that I think that all of the games are still really high compared to a lot of other like it's not often that you get like really shit games um that come out you know like uh usually usually what you get is like media wow I like usually the bar for as low as it gets as mediocre cause because we we all sort of generally agree on games being good like in terms of what it means to be a good game um usually mechanically sound it works well because funnily enough right I was I was thinking to myself just now I was like well gaming is typically like you get what you pay for much more than I think you do with movies with movies can like deliver you utter crap but movies cost you one thing you get the thing and then it's done most of the time we can talk about streaming services but I mean microtransactions is just not an issue for movies they'll probably try and find a way to do it but like is that not maybe something that brings the points down for gaming in terms of frustration and concern just how much money yeah yeah and how much the experience can be compromised by monetary whereas you know with a film it's like well it's gonna be you know between one half hours like three hours long it'll as much as you have to play after the game and it won't break midway through the current issue of course is subscribed to to you know Netflix Hulu Amazon yeah and Paramount whatever like all of the things that's the new issue we're facing for that it's a different one that's a video games yeah but why are we talking about how a lot of Spiderman's coming out yeah Spiderman is coming out is everyone ready to go on to that topic yeah I'm sorry I ruined the segue if I ramble too much the thing is the movie industry that gave you just so many similar problems it's very easy to jump right back over again yeah it's true I'm going to grab some coffee guys so I'll be back in a minute forms oh my gosh so is rags the only person here hasn't seen the trailer for Spundoman the new one I think so oh boy exciting in that case what we'll do Spadamy we get a live real actual do you know what I just typed in do you know what I just fucking typed in without even thinking about it what Spiderman no more hope holy shit brain they are working on a fourth movie that's probably the title Jesus Christ that was a subconscious yell for help I guess but anyway no more hope oh man it's like really we're already at that point it's like yeah well I gotta resize our screen so well waiting for free anyway so it'll work out but um yeah yeah what we'll do is we will we will watch it quote unquote but I'll put it on mute and cover for copyright so that rags can appreciate and then we will talk about it no idea how long this section would last by the way I I didn't I thought I was a little bit worried we wouldn't be able to get an hour to two hours out of Halo but um oh it happens all the time I hope we'll be able to talk about it long enough and then it goes horrifically over that's not Spiderman on screen he's uh he's a spider bro that's what this one is spider bro are we doing a watch together thing or is this just for rags uh yeah give me a second normally in kills just sizing it properly oh okay no problem but here you have it I don't even know if the FPS is gonna work for the movie but the fact is it doesn't really matter because I'm sorry chat I'm not allowed to show you much of it because of copytisms all right there's your link thank you there's me grabbing this like I said we could just play this now because Fringy has seen the trailer so this is mainly for rags to just see it yep all right so let me boot it up it's just the trailer for the trailer at the beginning yeah some of the great fucking thing that happens hey trailers for trailers I know right okay already great the cover's up it's just gonna play you at home meaning everyone in this cast except me will have volume on chat you won't but if you go and find this trailer three minutes on youtube and play at the same time we do you'll be able to experience that's a long trailer yeah I guess I think it's got bits at the end in the beginning that you know add to it I guess I don't know I don't even know what normal trailer sizes are anymore um all right I'm just gonna start it up here you go enjoy yeah definitely still got FPS issues so I have to fix that well yeah trailer for trailer dangerous oh no it's the gringriblin I don't think there's just Dave oh another spooker man it's octopuff okay I feel like he would just say fucking do it but that's all right hmm is it weird for him to say fate I'm not sure oh no reach out your web and have it be a hand and that's it all stuff happening looks like it's gonna be a jam packed movie all kinds of things what's going on it's 17 hours long a lot of things I feel like people are gonna want us to address immediately the thing that happened with the brazil version of this trailer wait what happened with that one so I'm not aware at all we can get that shot back where were we going around here somewhere right where spundo is gonna here we go perfect do you see this little bit here this little bit yeah seems like seems like lizard is not heading toward tom harland and it's like hmm oh but that's not enough right could just be lizards confused maybe he's just looking for something else the brazilian version is slightly longer and it shows him getting punched by the invisible man why the yeah I think I know what you're oh I didn't know that had anything to do with with the brazil I saw that clip though yeah the clip lost a little too long his face that's like yeah he's getting punched by another spuderman yeah so we're getting obviously it's the worst kept secret ever but I mean they just want to probably take advantage of those out there who really don't know which would be nice for them I suppose right they don't even care like that it's the worst kept secret because it's like as long as the discussion is maintained and it keeps trending on twitter and people are going to go see the movie to find out for sure whether they're in there just to have it confirmed they don't care if people are speculating that oh you know they're definitely in it it's like I don't know that that would be oh you guys I don't know what could I know they're not what are you talking about they're not in it that's crazy we would have told you if they were in it um yeah look I said they're not in it isn't that good enough for you wait what Lizard gets punched by the air that's your eyes playing tricks on you so yeah I'm very curious what the aftermath afar from home is going to be in this in terms of the damage his reputation has got going for him with the whole having killed one of the favorite superheroes ever quote on quote I'm guessing that will be the very quickly done first 10 minutes or something because this film's got lots to do we still have the same concerns is it really gonna be that they're both idiots and that's why everything happens not looking forward to that that's what it sounds like that we need to know that's my biggest gripe is like would Stephen Strange like do this favor for him like it's it seems really I'm gonna rewrite the universe for you if that's what I think he would yeah no and even if even if more information even if he would do it if it's so if a single word is so confusing for him already just get get him out of the room dude on your own this is the thing assuming everything is as presented there's a billion arguments to make but until we see the movie we can't be sure of anything yet it could be a trailer lie yeah yeah it's true it's true and we know that there are a trailer lies because they have to retell it PGI'd out one of the Spider-Man so it could be bullshit that's crazy talk yeah very concerning then we've we just had a brain aneurysm when he was going to like get on that scaffolding and he went they've shown us loads of this particular part of the film I'm assuming this is really can't really show us loads that's blocked in the chat uh oh oh they're shooting loads at us you yeah presumably this is just early game and funnily enough I guess they capture dark off it's like okay and uh and then looks like he's helping out the good guide team yeah the prevailing theory for now is that nanotech from the stock suit will get into his tentacles and then the inhibited chip and all that bullshit it's gonna get undone and he'll be a good man yeah which is but honestly yeah just what fans want to see oh I didn't I'm fine I'm fine yeah I want to see a good guy oh oh there's a dot in there uh but yeah that would be nifty that'd be neat um um yeah this part to clarify some confusion there was some people saying like why do you show his face so I think we're supposed to assume here that he's running out of nanotech and so he puts on his the gap in his chest and it costs the the mask yes yeah obviously his head is the only thing that's not being attacked so yeah um but that obviously makes Otto realize he's not who he says he isn't presumably Otto gets beaten by like Dr. Strange or something in this scene I don't know um and Green Goblin is probably gonna turn out to be the the hardest the endgame boss maybe of this film we've seen so little of him that I think it's safe to us and that's the case yeah we're really gonna build that up we're gonna get a Green Goblin Peter Parker Toby McGuire showdown Maeve who knows who knows um then there's this scene pretty controversial right now uh make it fun of Otto Otto Octavius's name uh a lot of people very upset with this when Stephen Strange is right there it's I I just didn't I didn't feel anything when I when I heard this joke I was like oh I just thought I was like oh yeah of course I can't look we still do funny stuff it kind of makes sense with a modern approach but I am inclined to think that that's something that they should just kind of ignore like the the name the pun names thing yeah probably he's I don't know I if I was standing with him I wouldn't laugh along I'd be like Otto Octavius I guess it's a little bit like because of the alliteration I don't know I don't know I don't even mind this guy he looks like what's ox right eight limbs that's Octavius yeah like still on the nose I guess that yeah at that point I'd just be like are you is this was the did the name or the the gear come first because it's but um yeah I don't know like oh you're a valet and your name's Peter Parker ha ha ha but like I do see because I I think it's fair to call this cringe run funny whatever but there's some overreactions I've seen with they're like wow taking shots of spider-man's like classic villain and it's like okay calm down calm down it's okay okay calm down it's okay Jesus Christ yeah it'll be fine well they're just trying to they're joshin you know they're just joshin yeah we got us to split them a sputum in suit that's crossed over Dr. Strange's stuff yeah I don't really know what to make of it what I heard is this this is his typical uniform turned inside out so you see the circuitry on the outside because you can see some wires and he's got his cell phone duct tape to his chest here if you look closely oh yeah right and he might he might he might always have his phone duct tape to the inside of his uniform as to use as like a communication device and now that is flipped inside out we can finally see what's going on under there I think this is a really cool idea because when I saw the blacks suit I was like oh are they doing the symbiote in this as well but apparently it's just the innards of his typical suit I see does he get turned inside out is his skin on the inside yeah so this was the one that I was like lost at because I don't understand what the context for this scene is going to be and I'm sorry but Scooby-Doo this crap is not funny to me at all no no yeah it doesn't seem like strange just like okay yeah I'd be very curious what it is that he's having them do that he wouldn't want to take care of himself and I'd be curious why it is that he wouldn't just do another treat them I don't know well that's why I didn't say it's impossible and I don't know why he's not treating them with more just like we're dealing with the end of the world you'll do exactly as I say yeah exactly fucking do it I don't have to say please you need me to say please to save the world just go fucking do it god damn it woman no all grave situations need to have Paul Feig style modern-day banter that doesn't take anything seriously yeah we've got Electro and Sandman are making their way in I guess and Lizard everyone's favorite villain wow Lizard is great I'm so glad to get more Lizard is that what he's called Lizard pretty much yeah just Lizard is he called is he called scale scale steen or maybe fangy mix Steve and the Scaleman or isn't my Scaleman Scaleman doesn't kill himself the green and yeah so we get to what we'll probably kick off the beginning of act two where the solution to what we just did is to send them all back in which they will all be killed that's basically what Doc Strange says which is strange because I think only half of them have that confirmed and not not even they're not all dead because of Spider-Man or the Spider-Man kills you know it's just a strange thing to think about because Electro became a battery Lizard was fine and Sandman washed away into the wind I don't know if there was a thing I saw on Twitter that said that that that the rumor goes that there will have obviously been years since the films like Amazing Spider-Man 2 and that there is history there that will explain those characters like all of the ones that we didn't see die did eventually die or something like that yeah okay I think or that it will address it to some extent well either way it looks like that's going to be the conflict Spider-Man doesn't want to send them back because he doesn't want them to die and Doc Strange is like we gotta do which is good enough for me in terms of a conflict of their preferences I just don't I do like that yeah we've just got to be careful about what Pete is willing to do to prevent that like as either we're like yeah if the world falls apart that's fine it's like hmm yeah um yeah nice like the Spider-Man 2 I wonder about that they are the trend that they're fighting on I wonder about all of this I don't know how all of this is contextualized for sure oh that's probably worth mentioning that is a that is a comic accurate electro helmet thing which a lot of people looks like a super Saiyan well it looks silly as fuck that's what people like about it they're like yay they did a reference to the stupid costume it's like all right it's only brief so I'm totally fine with it as well like you could mistake it for having just been a series of electric going around a little of the place as opposed to a definitive mask he is trying to wear um he looks like shit I'm hoping it looks better yeah it looks a good shit yeah I think that's big concern is that this film they finish shooting it in like March or April and it's out like in December that is a short amount of time for post-production on what is like a very big film that is heavy CGI intensive like that's a long time not a long time not a lot of time and what is this coming out what what December it's coming out next month what December now yeah what what day coming out next December what what December 2022 the cold one big smart apparently there's statistically more hype for this than Avengers Infinity War Endgame which I didn't think they'd pull off but there is hype this previous hype incarnate this is just old pure hype so was that criticizing stupid costumes in a Marvel movie it's like Iron Man's costume is fucking badass you kidding me yeah Captain America's costume is good yeah all the one end events a lot of them are a lot of them look good yeah yeah Dick slash also I think he looks way better here in than in Tasm 2 in terms of design if the CGI is the problem Tasm 2 I hate that like having him as a guy weird blue monstrosity he's he downright looks creepy as fuck in that film I don't know what the hell they were thinking but this is like a guy wearing loads of gear that's related to electric like yeah I'm way more game for that don't you know I'm electro it's a bee he heard from you I don't think anyone would be aware of that sorry fucking they don't have a I think anyone would be aware of that look they don't have a high bar to clear for this hopefully they can make him more appealing than in Tasm 2 I was thinking pretty hard you can do it Sodi I believe in you yeah and this he's a good guy yeah yeah Doc Oc being hit by electro was like ah yeah it looks like he's in the city so I wonder what's happening here because it looks like they're fighting at the Statue of Liberty getting the Captain America shield put on it I mean now look at yeah and I was gonna say by the way if that box that Peter took was was strange attempting to put Doc Oc back to his world to get killed sort of thing and that's when Peter ran off it could be that that is the scene where Doc Oc is like like he just saved my life hmm yeah yeah might be and uh you know it could be that he sort of jumps into the last moment when Peter's about to get killed and saves him there's a dude the amount of like chill moments that could be in this because of nostalgia is insane like you know put your hearts in a little container okay when you go to see this movie because it's gonna be hard to keep it down the mind will be like these are simple keys they are juggling in front of you the horse is running around and he's like no no no no no no just just let me grab one of them I just want one of them I just wanna play with the keys give it to me especially if I use some of the like Danny Alfman motifs get like a score oh yeah from the old movies so we're going to kill Peter the dog on stop so it just goes pizza time I am hoping for pizza time somewhere in the movie in goblin to say it it's pizza time Peter pizza deliveries better man it's DiGiorno whoa he stole that guy's pizza and then god you're right get your rent when you fix this damn doors he smashes it over the lizards I'll give you pizza when you fix this damn door that would be a cameo everyone would love to see oh I think he pulled through the conventions he needs to be midway through his funny dance and fall to the ground music fades out he's like all the way but yeah um if you pay super close attention you can start a piece together a timeline from this to do with the statue of is statue of like liberty with the captain America shield or something right yeah I guess they're putting it on because I got all the scaffolding maybe they're changing right hmm yeah break it all that's annoying yeah I assume that this will be the end of act two what we're seeing here I do now too yeah I think that there's more after this and I think that it'll end with Dr. Strange panicking so you're saying oh god I can't stop them and then instead of strict villains coming in we'll get the spider man coming in to be fair to be fair remember with Tasm 2 maybe the movie literally ends right after he's about to you know electro stand man in lizard and that's just where it ends that is I can't believe they did like you fight right over now another controversial subject we got green goblin suit is now all CGI or at least it is in this part of the film some people are very unhappy about this I'm fine I'm fine with this I'm fine with it would have been nice if it was real yeah I think um um I wonder like I said I wonder if they tried it out with a real one it just didn't work or something I don't know because like if you if you remember spider man one that it's a it's a very it's very Sam Raimi that that film in terms of camp and I wonder you can see how shaded this green goblin is to try and keep him down instead of having a plastic shine and stuff yeah and I guess maybe it's about integrating it with uh all of the yeah the CGI stuff in the background too it's just I don't know yeah I don't suspect this is not his costume that he's because we see the the other shot that comes right after this that is uh that's him yeah this is his first suit he's gonna be wearing someone else later so don't worry too much I guess yeah there it is yeah he's looking different maybe that's Harry yeah it's maybe it's maybe I doubt it Harry um it's I it's not even a doubted at this point I think based on everything that I've heard there is like some that it's uh some crazy new like these got but it's still him yeah everyone's been talking about Willem Defoe's many suits in this and one that's comic accurate and stuff like that I I don't know what we're in for really but um yeah we get lots of shots of people he likes and everyone we're all speculating somebody's gonna die in this one who's it gonna be I mean the obvious choice is gonna be MJ but I don't think that's gonna be it um because I don't think they on me happy is a more likely I reckon Ned that's my that's where all my money's on yeah I'm worried about Ned I'm worried about him I reckon they're gonna kill Ned especially because of the way the scene goes it looks like she falls off and then he's falling off but we don't concern ourselves with it and Spider-Man makes the wrong choice and saves her well everyone's already called the payoff of Andrew Garfield Spider-Man will save her yeah well yeah because how could you not do that but we'll see I would I'd put money on on mayor to be honest I think it's possible too I think I think that's not one yeah um yeah that's pretty much it I'm trying to think of what else there is to say other than just yeah I I very much want to see this because I want to know all the secrets okay what's going on in this thing give me a secrets wizard I hope it's good but there's a lot of stuff to do right I hope so I hope it's good but there's a lot of stuff going on here yeah you gotta make sure you get Peter you gotta get him right try to try to land you know now the landing as best as possible when you make it a movie that has to pull characters from multiple film franchises together all in one go while setting up multiverse shit for the MCU we know grapes with it are relatively small I think it's it looks like quite a fun movie I think I really enjoy it looks like it's gonna be two and a half hours long that's my concern it's gonna be it's gonna be yeah it's gonna be it's gonna be yeah it was long oh I'm happy about two I'm happy about two one more time you need more time I hope it's gonna be good because that's probably the first movie I'm want to see back in the cinema because I want to talk about it as well see probably the only one I care about in the MCU anymore if that one is shit as well might as well as fucking do you not care about guardians I forgot that it still comes that's coming out that's a little while away though yeah it's probably 2023 right it is 2023 yeah so that's that the thing is we know that's the Spider-Man trailer yeah we're not too like thinking about trailers because it's just so limited information so we usually just like this is what it is this is what people said about it yeah that's about that you don't have the the mouth of Gabe pointing me no no no no no with trailers with us it's all it's all just a commercial for bullshit so we'll see when it's out I hope it's good but oh the I don't know I wouldn't put my money on it but I hope it is there's a lot of stuff going on in this trailer a lot of characters a lot of a lot of stuff it's packed full I doubt this will be a boring moony no way there's going to be too much happening it might be obnoxiously exciting but we'll we'll we'll find out do you imagine if they have because we saw J Jonah Jameson there what if they bring in the other J Jonah Jameson while he's in Spider-Man's suit that he stole in Spider-Man's suit on his desk shooting I would never do that oh but you won't plop him in there and then you know uh MCU J Jonah Jameson ha okay you know I look pretty good or maybe he thinks that wait in another universe home spider-man I'm Spider-Man yeah get me photos of Spider-Man good times but yeah well well that'll be the 18th thief have for that because it comes out wait a minute actually that I wonder if for I'll be able to see it by then it comes out if you want my 17th right so I gotta see it 17 if possible yeah book it as it's tied for yet so just just jump on okay I mean that's what I did with the rise of Skywalker I saw that shit the date came out so that we could do our e-fap or something like that we're all big fans of the sequels we just want to make sure we stay up to date you know yeah that was the last movie I've seen in theaters was the rise of Skywalker yay that about doesn't for the topics for today how about that oh my goodness oh my goodness we made it to the end one of them was a little longer than the other just a little bit but um yeah well hopefully that scratches at the itches our fans have for talking about halo at least for a little bit we will come back to it I imagine metal and free you both be streaming the campaign right I probably will I will probably think as a friend of mine wanted to play it cope with me the first time I might just get him along to stream it I thought you said it doesn't have co-op yet or is it I'm not saying who have to oh oh wait you're in six months wait is it a separate co-op or is it I don't know I couldn't use by this whole co-op thing co-op for the uh for the campaign yeah but is this this is going to be the same campaign yeah yeah yeah yeah why is it six months away then what's the fucking point it ain't there yet fuck no mel where were you for this conversation I'm like no just only now occurred to me I thought it would maybe be a different kind of game I've never really played Halo single player like as a campaign it was just I always played it with friends because you always played Halo with your friends and you know you that's what you did so yeah this will be really weird for me to play a Halo campaign by myself it it's like it won't feel right like it'll have something missing like other people I mean yeah the I imagine I'll just be because I'll probably stream it as well and just be like let's let's do this let's get some context I don't know for what we're going to be playing solo first on my own because I'm going to talk about it as well I'm not going to wait six months you're going to play it John yeah I'm really looking forward to it in that case there really will be a part two to this streaming on the month from now probably I don't know nice well on that wonderful note I guess we shall jump into the super charms yeah let's do it let's see what the people have to say we open with in your opinion which breed of puppy is the cutest in my opinion it's the English bulldog they're all there's a bunch there's a bunch that are really cute a lot of them are I don't know that I could pick I love all kinds of they're so cute all of them are puppies that can melt hot yeah a lot of them are really really cute kittens are also adorable yeah kittens are cute a lot of baby animals are just really cute yeah I don't know it's like it was the best we could do I really think everything from golden retrievers to doxins to sheeva enoos and pomeranians to terriers I'm sure baby t-rex is real cute as well French bulldogs yeah probably there's all kinds of yeah all right now chow see kyle free kyle be kyle high rags fringy and other hi oh hello hello which one other there's two other here I think that's what they meant other is just all of the others that's not how that works I don't know what can you do kill them do I send plushie picks to your twitter I try to grab them up from there I'll show a bunch more when we go on to the the wednesday catch-up but if I miss them I'm sorry I don't catch all of them but yeah twitter I can try and catch a few I'm still missing my mubchly one you jaundive as far as I know the little rooks is all alone on chelie I've already seen some some people with the mubchly ones apparently he's getting out there on his way Ridley scott with a big brain on superhero movies oh have you guys seen that quote I'm guessing maybe no oh yeah you said they were boring as shit he said like they don't really have stories and their visuals trying to make up for it and I was just sitting there like dude like everyone talks about her Prometheus and alien covenant are both like gorgeous films but man the stories but yeah that doesn't mean he's wrong you know it's just awkward that's all because I put out a tweet something like that not people will like yeah but they're still better than Marvel movies they're like but look yeah if we were to break down alien covenant which I remember thinking was worse than Prometheus I feel like we would struggle to know just how many Marvel movies are better or worse than it it's quite a movie if alien or aliens didn't exist I would watch alien covenant and think that was an okay monster movie you know like generic I don't even know what I would think such a dumb movie but like what is what is an alien what is the comparison of what he's done aliens are guys we got an alien tv show at some point oh my god cringy are you serious yeah I have bazaar on a multiplayer oh wow oh my god I don't know what to do what do I do run quit run I don't know I'm so confused Lord Longburn of Mewlington Abbey have you given any more thought to a kong fap of Peter Jackson's long kong when there's less going on maybe uh it'd be a movie fap for the ages p.s. hello wagsies scritches for the good boy oh hello thank you and uh yeah yeah one day kong's been on the loop for a while and when it happens and it's finally released you'll have to start asking for something else and I don't even know what to say at that point it'll be horrible but uh yeah it's hoping to be on the way depends what he's produced mm-hmm Mola don't waste your time with cookie clover there clicker it's miserable it gets really unfair when you get to the septillions and some achievements require cheating interesting um so I'm not like the typical I presume cookie clicker person I literally like look at it once per day for about a minute I'm just like oh there's that yeah um yeah the I know that there's an achievement where you literally have to open a cheat console and just type in a cheat and then you get an achievement for that your achievements are listed in this big set and there's one if you click it it gives it to you and it's like yeah all you have to do is ask what's the achievement there's all clever things in here but I'm not I wouldn't that's the one you also have to click one specific question mark that gives you an achievement as well and yeah I wouldn't recommend idle games to anybody you know what you're in for if you find it amusing go ahead that's that's that's all I gotta say on that one Stanley parable had some good achievements I love Stanley parable I was really impressed with that game man that was a fun one I never played it myself wait that's not true I played it a little bit yeah idiot but shut up fucking rude as veterans of the spoodle wars just what is it that you guys think spidey fans hate about mcu spidey so much also hi Rue Gillian Rue Gillian Rue Gillian hello I think it's iron man is what they hate yeah I mean this is perception of his agency I that doesn't help yeah it's a series of things primarily cited that he has no agency which is always super awkward as someone who's seen the movies because you're like but he does and then you're like yeah but not the kind of agency I want you're like oh I never know what to say because I always just I'm sitting here like he beat his own villain in an incredibly dangerous circumstance with his own tech and even spared his life too so or at least saved his life um so I don't know I don't know what to do with it bring you've got anything to add to that it feels like you would I don't know I I yeah I guess I don't know what I don't know what more they want because he makes decisions in the films he makes a lot of decisions in the films is it I don't I don't know what I don't know what they'd be citing I think that's all I don't I don't know what you'd be referencing to say that he isn't making decisions it's become a really common sentiment it's like I am so tired of him using stock tech and it's like I think okay I feel like that's all there is that he's using that tech it's so interesting because he built the web shooters originally and he designed the web fluid but that seems to be something that nobody even remembers and ramy spider-man didn't even get to have that as a thing oh he just they came out of his arms exactly and so you and he made a homemade suit that was actually viable as a homemade suit like it's as opposed to the ramy one which there's no way that he made no way he made that now even the tazm one is still too good to be a homemade one I think is it the lack of agency that most people hate about it that's what I seem to see I won't ever say that yeah yet constantly iron boy iron boy let's always say like a fucking and then if they I just I do wonder what's going to happen let's say we get our dream reality for you I'm not sure if we're actually feel this way too but three movies after this one that's coming in college here actually let's say the end of this one Dr. Strange wipes the world's memory of Peter but that includes the Avengers so he's got no more umbilical cord and he actually does have to defend for himself he gets those money issues he has lots of relationship issues he battles three iconic fucking spider-man villains in college so then we get the three movies after that which are all when he's like you know an adult and he's maybe ushering in a new hero or some kind and they're like finally has his agency I would wonder at that point like but I mean we saw how he got there right do we just not want to see that at all because uh I feel like this is our only chance to do that in the MCU at least right now because there's like no kid superheroes so I find he has enough agency where it counts I love that scene in home coming where he goes to the prom after the encounter with um vulture and he uh he decides to to abandon what's her name Liz and lives down the hall yeah because he knows what he has to do and like god that's a definitive spider-man moment like this that may be a movie for me dude him saying come on spider-man as he picks up a building I'm just like how does this not work for you spider-man fads I know it yeah it's great that was lifted straight out of one of the bit comic yeah the comic yeah is it one of the approved comic books it is that's one of the old ones isn't it I think so yeah wow they did the right one um so yeah I don't know the there's a lot of just uh they feel his wasted potential that they've gone the wrong direction and that um you know if if this movie is filled with the other spider-man helping him out I'm very curious what the sentiment will be because everyone everyone simultaneously loves ramy spider-man but also thinks Tom Holland's Spider-Man doesn't have enough agency so what will they do then we'll have to see um I feel like this film is going to be especially interesting for how me and Fringy have passionately looked at this spider-man because it really yeah I uh I remember seeing on a reddit thread where they were like yeah these movies just aren't that good it's like man like these movies I can give you far from home because far from home has got a lot of problems but like Homecoming is a great film and it's really disappointing that uh that a lot of the great stuff that it did just goes unappreciated because of this I don't know this perspective that's just held that the mcu spider-man stuff isn't that good when I think that it has like some of the more consistently good character writing of all the of all the characters you like in terms of characters I'm invested in he's there aren't many left spider-man's one can we appreciate the fucking glow up for vulture from the comics to that movie yeah vulture is dude vult