Welcome folks, this is Friday, April 30th, we're on the starting to wind up our legislative session for this this year of 2021. We're going to spend a little bit of time this morning, continuing our conversation about the space needs within the State House for hopefully bringing the legislative branch back to the State House come January this next session. We had the report yesterday we went through pretty much in depth with just just sit back on Freeman French Freeman to go through the mid middle term and long term approach or medium term. Today we have bgs with us to talk about the implications of that report. Does the timeframe for possibly some of those items getting done so that we have a better feel of what would be achievable between now and January to really get the legislature back in the building. So, I would like to turn it over at this point to Commissioner Fitch of bgs to start us off and then we'll go from there. Commissioner welcome. Thank you madam chair and thank you to the committee members for having bgs in today for the record my name is Jennifer Fitch. My name is Jennifer Fitch and I'm the director of design and construction and you will hear from them likely today as well. One of the things that I want to start off with is that I always appreciate and value the partnership that we've had with this committee, as well as Senate institutions, and all the knowledge that you bring, as well as the committee supporting each other's outcomes and goals. And so with that, we, we want to let you know that we value and appreciate the work and the effort that Freeman French Freeman put into the medium and long term space assessment. As noted in the report Freeman French Freeman has also provided some other space studies for you over the past two years. I will be talking about one of those in a minute. And one of the issues of the medium term space solutions that Freeman French Freeman has provided, which does entail taking down walls and rebuilding walls to make larger committee rooms. We at bgs agree with Freeman French Freeman that that is a very aggressive timeline and we don't have the ability at bgs to meet that timeline. Joe will go into a lot more greater detail on that and provide the details on why. We are unable to meet that schedule. That being the case, we have reviewed the Freeman French Freeman reports, and we do believe that there are some other options that they have presented that definitely could be implemented prior to the, to the next legislative session. And that includes, you know, reusing spaces that you already have that are larger, right and converting those into committee rooms and, and we'll talk about that here in a minute. So, so we do appreciate and value that report we think Freeman French Freeman offered a lot of great options. So the timeline for the medium option of taking down walls and rebuilding is, is we agree it's aggressive, and we agree we cannot meet that timeline before the 22 session. And that's because there's things like which Joe will get into a PC, fire alarm electrical a review historic preservation review, as well as fire safety review. So and again he'll go into, he'll go into those details. As I said, we have continued to work collaboratively with the legislative branch to provide other spaces that you may be able to utilize. So a little bit back in the, in the time back machine. So about a year ago, Freeman French Freeman was hired to do a, basically a COVID-19 health and safety assessment to determine viable spaces in the central Vermont area that could be converted into committee rooms. That report came back to the legislature, and the legislature said, you know what, we want to be in the complex, we really don't want to be spread all over the central Vermont area. We heard you loud and clear. Again our goal is to support successful outcomes for the legislature. So we worked really collaboratively with Freeman French Freeman, as well as Catherine venom and some other folks in the legislature who identify other viable spaces in the capital complex that had not been previously identified by Freeman French Freeman. And in doing so, we were able to identify several spaces that were fit up for socially distanced meeting rooms. We have four physically distanced meeting rooms in the basement of 133 that have been fit up. And we also have three physically distanced committee spaces or meeting rooms depending on how you'd like to use them in the community between 109 and 111. Fit up involved carpet and paint, some minor HVAC, and they are sitting there and they are ready to be used by the legislature, whenever you would like to use them. As we know right most of us are the legislature is working remotely and mostly executive branch is working remotely as well. So those spaces haven't been used this year, but they are fit up, and they are available to you in the next session. And so we want to make sure that we provide those spaces to you, or whatever use you may like to use them for but I just wanted the committee to know that we do have seven meeting rooms set up in the basement of 133 and the connector of 109 and 111, which depending on how you want to utilize those spaces, right, allows you to alleviate some space and some pressure within the State House. And if we can alleviate some pressure within the State House that allows you to start thinking about how can you use existing rooms that you already have. For example, the legislative lounge or rooms 10 or 9 or 11, for example. So, so just so you know you do have other spaces already been fit up for you and you are welcome to use it whenever you'd like to use it and however you'd like to use it. So when the space was identified for exclusive use by the legislature at the time. We didn't know, we didn't know what spaces were viable there was a lot of things going on. And so what happened was the legislature basically took exclusive use of every single vacant space within the complex. And in doing so, unfortunately, prevented us from continuing to do our modernization, where we want to optimize and consolidate space within the capital complex, which would save $2 million over 10 years, and about $1.2 million and proceeds for the sale of the Baldwin's. We put draft language into the bill this year and the governor's proposed recommend was to to continue to support the legislature in allowing them to use the spaces right that had been fit up. We also like to recover space that's not currently being used by the legislature because after all that space was was taken through the general fund bill. And we had time to thoroughly vet it, we recognize that some of those spaces weren't good options for the legislature. And now we have space that we can't do anything with that nobody else is using, because it's all under the exclusive use of the legislature, which now prevents us from being able to continue to do our space optimization and modernization project. So, where we are today is we want to continue to work with the legislature. And we want to continue to provide spaces so that you could all come back in person. That's my number one goal of bgs. It's in our mission to provide spaces for positive programmatic outcomes. And I recognize and we want to support the legislature and coming back to in person committee sessions in fact, last night I was talking to a couple of folks from the state house and I said, I wish I was there right this is my first year as a commissioner. It would be so much better if I was able to meet with you all in person, right and make those relationships and get to know you all personally and that's what I want to do. I'm just as invested in bringing you all back to the state house hopefully as as you are. And as part of all that, we recognize that the legislature does need more space. And one of the things that we've talked about, and a conversation that we've been having is bgs has reassessed our space plan. We believe, or we know that the legislature could take occupancy of two weekend, which would provide you 36 conceptually would provide you with 36 offices or workstations, as well as the space that I'm in right now, which is a large is the dining room, but it's a large room that would be converted if you chose to into a meeting space as well. It's the closest space to the state house that I can provide to the legislature, and it would allow you to alleviate some of that pressure that you have within the state house. And so I want to offer that I will tell you, Madam chair and I have talked about this bgs has been into a can for 35 to 40 years it's become part of who we are. And so, I just want to say that and that I'm putting the needs of the legislature. One of my staff who probably wouldn't be too happy to hear that I've offered up to a can for the legislature, the legislature is welcome to occupy to a can for as long as they like where they need. And, you know, if the renovation from the state house happens, and you want to pull all those people back into the state house more than welcome. And at that time we would find another occupant for two weekend. And I want you to know that I hear you loud and clear, you need some permanent space, and happy to provide to a can to do that. Now that means I need a home to go to, because if I leave this space, I got to go somewhere else right. And when we reassess the space plan, we recognize that bgs would fit well on the fifth floor of 133. So I'm in basically five or different spaces, six spaces within the complex. So for me, for my programmatic outcomes, I get to bring all of my folks under one roof, and we'll be far more efficient than what we are today because we'll be working together, all under one roof. So, all of this is to say, we have space that's been fit up for you. We want you to continue to be able to use that on a temporary basis for whatever you'd like to use it for. And we'd like to offer to awaken to the legislature to alleviate some of that pressure in the state house. And in doing so, we would like to be able to occupy and get use of the fifth floor 133 so you guys can move in here. And we would also like to continue that conversation about our ability to sell the bald ones. I know there's been concern about is there enough space for everybody in the complex. I can assure you that there is. In fact, we've already looked at the first floor server room of 133. There is $700,000 and a prior capital bill for fit up. Originally, the agency of digital services was going to go there, but they have since moved out of the capital complex leaving that space available. The nice thing about that space is that it has a generator to the building, which is great for a server. And it's large enough to put in lots of workstations in there as well. So again, it alleviates some of that staff space within the state house. That's how you would like to use it. So again, we're trying to find a way to both support this, the legislature both for your temporary needs and bringing people back together, some permanent space needs to alleviate factor within the state house for as long as you need it. And also our ability to sell the bald ones so we can continue our modernization plan. And again, that would bring $1.2 million proceeds that would go back into the capital bill, as well as our ability to save $2 million over the next 10 years. So that is my proposal to the legislature. I know that it's your decision. You've always been very supportive of BGS. We want to continue to partner with you and support your programmatic outcomes. Again, you know, in looking at the timeline that Freeman French Freeman provided within the report, it's not achievable and Joe will talk about more detail in terms of our ability to meet that schedule. We agree with Freeman French Freeman that it's very aggressive and challenging to meet. We don't believe we'll be able to meet it. So with that, again, we appreciate the opportunity to be here today and recognize this is the legislature's decision, but we very much value our partnership with you. Thank you commissioner. And you did put a thought on the table. And I do have a question. BGS is in more than just to awaken correct isn't there some buildings next to to awaken that BGS is also in. So BGS is in, we're in a lot of spaces. So we are in to awaken for Aiken, thick Baldwin 109 120 and 134 a lot of spaces that we're in. So when we move to the if and when we were to move to the fifth floor of 133. Those spaces would become vacant. When we reworked our space plan recently, right where we've identified people to go into those spaces, while still making sure that the legislature is at the forefront in terms of providing you with additional permanent space as well. I'm just visualizing this where, where to Aiken is, and then you've got another building behind to Aiken that's still or near, which is also on Aiken street then you have another building is that Aiken or Baldwin. It starts to become Baldwin so it's, it's like you've got two weekend and four again, and there's like a little parking for people who have been in the state house there's a little parking lot right here. There's two, and then there's four Aiken, and then the next building over is like a block wall building I don't know what it is Joe it's an older building, but that is six Baldwin so technically that's, and that's all use right now by BGS. There's other tenants in it as well it has the financial services division, and it has state attorneys in it as well so we're not and actually Chief Romeo I has an office in there as well so we have multiple tenants and six Baldwin. So when you're saying that you'd be willing to give up to Aiken and then consolidate all your folks on the fifth floor that would mean moving folks out of for Aiken as well. So are those other two buildings part of this swap as well. They are not part of the swap because when we analyze the space right we need to make sure that we've got space for everyone so we've got boards and commissions we need to take care of as well. And, and other other sort of tenants and folks to take care of as well so at this point, what we've analyzed and looked at and what we can pull off and make sure that we still have space for other folks because we do take care of all three branches of government is to Aiken. So, it's a thought, I think it's may need more conversations in places that may be above us for this, but it's a thought. I do have questions if you have another building for Aiken that is totally used by BGS that might be worth it for legislative space as well. I don't know. I'm wondering if that as well because you're pulling out for consolidating and you're emptying that building. And then the other building chief Romeo is already in it. Those that's a higher up decision than this committee at this point for that, but there is some thoughts there. So thank you. Scott. Thanks. Thank you Jennifer or Commissioner Fitch. I'm just wondering if you could write that down with what you all just said, what all you just said because there are a lot of details there about what spaces are already available and what the shifting would be as you envision it. That would be great. I mean, I'm happy to do a follow up to the committee if that would be helpful and and I can go back through it again right now that would be helpful as well you let me know what would be most helpful. I'm happy to do either one or both. Okay, I guess it would be simpler if you if you could just, you know, write it out real quick. There doesn't have to be anything elaborate just to just a list of the spaces that you were talking about. I think you said there were seven spaces that are already fit up. That is correct. Some in 133 and some in the. What is it 109 connector. That is correct. I'm just, I'm looking at the report from last August that Freeman French Freeman did. And I think I see what you're talking about, but just if it would be great to have that clarified. Absolutely. I'm happy to do that. And then also, also the your proposed sort of shift of things moving out of four eight and you know what that would look like.  When we were in session from August to September, a lot of that was put in place in terms of 133 and the connector.  And, and that's was the goal to get us back this past January. I know I guess I'm just asking for a for a summary list that would be useful. And also seems like would be really useful for us to have a little field trip to see, you know, what does all looks like. We are always happy to win that time. Eric is great at walking folks around. And you know the only other thing that I didn't mention that I think is just important just to make sure that everybody's aware. The legislature is paying fee for space at the moment right for all of the space the legislature took exclusive use of and again you're only using a small portion of what, what was taken for exclusive use over the biennium. I just want folks to know that that space costs about $700,000 a year in fee for space costs as well. So another benefit to the legislature in in providing that space that you're not using back is your you don't have to pay that fee for that cost anymore. And you could use those funds for something for something different. Sure. Hey, thank you. Kurt and then Karen. Yeah, those seven rooms that you mentioned at 133 and 109 through 11. What's the occupancy, how many people could fit in those. I think we're so they are large, I'll segue to Joe on that because he actually walked from yesterday but they are, they are in keeping with the Freeman French Freeman recommendations from the second report, and they are built around seven foot physical distancing. And all of those spaces that were fit up was in, was in keeping in with the recommendations of Freeman French Freeman so they're all large enough to fit House committees, I mean that was the, or meeting rooms however you want to use them I made sure that they were fit up or the rooms that were selected were large enough for for House committees as well as Senate committees depending on how you wanted to use them to meet in a, you know, physically distance environment. And in terms of occupancy we can get that for you I don't know the total number off the top of my head Joe may either have it, or we can provide that in a follow up email as well. So as long as it's, that's the maximum for a, you know, committee if it's 11 or 13 committee members plus whatever. That's fine I just wanted to make sure there weren't any restrictions on which determining which committees by the number of chairs or what you could get in there. Yeah, that that's a that the goal there was to be decided between the leaderships of the House and Senate terms of who goes where.  And that and Kerr brings up a good issue in terms of the physical distance, because we don't know what's going to be required come January.  So do you keep it at, and when, when the commissioner said seven foot, and for folks who weren't here in the committee last year. With a six foot distance, you've got to start at the core of your build of your body and work out really. So you're really talking about a total seven foot to achieve that six foot. So if, if our standard is going to be the CDC standard is three feet, then you can fit a few more people in but we don't know that yet. We don't know, or we could not be required to do physical distancing. We don't know. And that's what's making this so difficult. So Kurt, did you finish up. He muted himself. I think he's, yes, yes, I'm done. Thank you. So, looking for more clarification on the aching space. I've seen the diagrams for 133 State Street and 109 so I understand what the space options look like there with aching I think you said there's like 30 some odd work space fit up so is it that it would be for office for like desks area so folks with the idea that folks who are in the capital and state house now in that type of space would move to Aiken and then we could reconfigure state house space. But it sounds like it wouldn't be a fit for committee room meeting space. It would be our legal staff. It would be our legislative council folks. And that would free up room for committee space in the state house. I'm just trying to understand why do we want to move them there. This is what's hard for folks who have not worked in the building. We have a mezzanine floor where some of our legal staff that's where Luke Martin is. And the hair is there. Michael Churnick is there. You know we have about 10 lawyers in that space, plus some of their paralegals. And the thinking is that they could possibly move to another building. We have in the pink lady right now joint fiscal office so Catherine venom is in the pink lady and also our legal person. Our lawyer, Becky Wasserman is in the pink lady. So the thinking is we could move some of our legislative council legal staff that work out of offices that then freeze up space in the state house now if we had needed some temporary committee rooms to bring us back in January. The mezzanine you could break that up into two, two temporary spaces, possibly for two committee rooms. We just don't know. But that's helpful. That's what I'm trying to understand. Yeah. And then if we do the HVAC system, which we, this is also a key piece of all this. We don't know at the very first floor of legislative council where Mike for it sits and then further back where our editing is the back part is really problematic because there's mold issues and moisture and air circulation issues so those folks really should be moved out of there but we don't have any place to put them. So that's sort of tied in what we do with an HVAC system because initially we were thinking of a summer boiler, which would take up that space. So all of this is it's a puzzle as you move one you can't do something without moving this one without moving this one. So that's the thinking behind all that. This gives you room to maneuver. It's like you're in a room that's a total mess you got to take a couple of boxes out before you can see the floor. Right and space needs within the state house I mean that's why they've been studying it over many years and as you saw in the report they've looked at this in the 80s and the 90s and the legislature continues to look at space needs. And, and Madam chair has indicated before right more people start coming into the state house it's getting a little crowded over there. So sort of your low no cost option that we could do now before January, right is to relinquish to a can back to, or, you know, to, to, you know have the legislature however you want to occupy to a can occupy this this gives you immediate space relief at a low to no cost option. So we're again we're trying to work on those programmatic outcomes that helps you be successful as well as bgs be successful in our ability to go to the fifth floor of 133 and also our ability to sell the three Baldwin properties as well. We're going to hang on to those Baldwin properties until we really settle all of this. I think we've sort of made that decision because there's so many things up in the air, and there's no decision on any of this at this point. So Karen did you finish up after I interrupted. This is helpful I mean I just see how they're all moving pieces because I know in the Freeman French like one of the meeting spaces they offered was on the fifth floor of it so it's like how does this all tie in. And if the walls can't come down on the meeting space where is the bigger space going to be so I don't know who's going to be making all the decisions on this but it's going to be a hard nut to crack. Yeah, and I can speak to the fifth floor ball ball ballroom so the space that has been identified by Freeman French Freeman both in report number two and three. The only space on the fifth floor that has been identified to be used within their reports is that ballroom space. It turns out it used to be a theater. And so as such it was built to amplify sound it's very loud in that space. And so when Kevin my understanding was that when Kevin more from your legislative it went did a sound test in that space. He found that it was too loud. And because it's historic historic preservation said we couldn't both any sort of sound dampening to the ceiling or the side walls meaning there's no quick solution to dampen sound in that space. And therefore it had been ruled out as a as a potential committee space for that reason, just because it's really loud and echoey. Okay, Scott. I am wondering whether taking down walls in the mezzanine area and where the legislative attorneys are now, whether that would be possible in the time frame that we're looking at before January. Next year that that's, I don't know whether that's historic but if it is it's a lot less historic might might be easier to deal with it right now that the the offices are quite small. But if we were able to reconfigure that that might make committee rooms. Mezzanine used to be the cafeteria. So there were no office walls there. That used to be the cafeteria. When we built the addition in the late 80s where the cafeteria is now the mezzanine got converted into legislative office space. So those little cubicle theirs for those were put up during. So those are not weight bearing walls. Those were put up in the late 80s that was our cafeteria. Back there when you come up the back steps that are curled from the speaker's office you come up and that was the entrance to the food service line. And then you walk through and then when you go to the other end of the mezzanine where Luke's offices down there. That was the dining area. So that was open. So those walls would be shouldn't be terribly hard to remove. That either Joe or or Jennifer. I'm gonna say I'm if it's okay madam chair I'd like to yield to Joe Asia because this is definitely his area of expertise. Good morning for the record. Joe Asia director of design and construction for bgs. Although it appears to be open if you actually do a walk through there. You'll see that there's about five columns that to make a committee room would be a little bit difficult those walls. As the chair suggests stated that it used to be all open but the columns are in there and those walls would be easily to come down. If need be. I don't think it's a great place for committee room because of all the columns that are there. But Joe that could be uses temporary. Yes, it could be. Yeah, I'm thinking more temporary I'm not thinking permanent. I'm thinking if we can get back to the building and we still need spacing. I see next session as really more of a temporary fix. There's going to be some long term decisions that are based on our actual space needs and functioning at the legislature so we got two things. We got next January to get us back, and it's going to be whatever those space requirement social distancing and temporary committee meeting rooms committee rooms that at least we can function. I just think in the mezzanine would be temporary for committee rooms. So you can work around those columns, can you. Well you be like going to the Red Sox game, all kinds of which seats you're in. It could be laid out but you would probably end up taking for committee room, most of that space, if you're still taking into account the social distancing. You know whether it's certainly at seven feet that that whole space would almost become a committee room because of also would be people accessing the last two where it narrows down and comes through the backside of the you know to put offices in there you still need a second means of egress and have that whole process works. It all comes down to, we can do anything but it takes time. And then it takes money. So which one is the, you know, do we have we don't have a lot of time. I don't know if you have if you have enough money, but that's that's really what it comes down to and then we move those people that are on the mezzanine, where do they go in their space needs to be fit up. And what do they need for it in the works of that. So I that's, it's really taking all that into account, putting it on paper and seeing what goes where and what becomes vacant, you know you know, for Aiken for Governor Aiken used to be an old carriage house, it has four different elevations in that one building, only one of which complies with ADA for access. And that's off of Baldwin Street, and there it's a stainless steel aluminum galvanized ramp that goes to it. That's not that whole building that you have access to because of those four different layers. So, well, so what I was thinking is, if, if I guess I'm presuming that seven foot distancing is not viable, really. So we've been really talking about three or four foot distancing at the most. And, and if we move BGS to the fifth floor of 133, and that freed up number two Aiken, then then that's where legislative staff can go perhaps I mean I don't know what those what the space needs are but let's let's just say for the same that there's a place for them to go. So then that frees up the mezzanine, it looks like we could make, we could make two committee rooms out of that and maybe with the wall being where the narrowing happens. And the rooms would be accessed from different from different staircases. Maybe there's a door between them in order to have a second. Second me to be aggressive and emergency but the point being that there's we can get a couple committee rooms there that we don't have now. And that would be for the for the some of the smaller community rooms at least. Right I understood that and when you look at that it's the amount of people that you're going to have in each committee, and whether or not the airflow in there. There's if there's enough airflow for the amount of people you're going to be putting in there. When you talked about that second committee room further down where it narrows. The problem with that is your ADA access, the elevator is at the other end of the floor. So you would have to have unobstructive access to go through that committee room for anybody who needs that. And so you can't just say, you know, it's either move of meeting because of that, but if somebody does show up, how do they have access. And I think the access to a state housing committee is more important than when it's a state office when you can make easier reasonable combinations, which the code and standard allows. I guess I would imagine a door between the two committee rooms as as a as ADA access and also emergency second exit. Clearly understand that but if you took. See you had a committee meeting going on the hearing in room 11 and just envision somebody coming in one door in wheelchair or walker or somebody who has some other known condition that they only only they know, and they have to walk through everybody. It's not comfortable for anybody to do that on both sides. So that's some of the things that we would have to look at and then if you did move everybody out of the mezzanine, that means in this whole chess game, they go to two weekend, which then I guess would free up the ballroom on the fifth floor 133 so that BGS does fit in there.  And I think that it was all if we had the time to put this on paper, you could see where that whole thing flows, and even I dare to bring it up but even the Baldwin's and how that that doesn't become. It doesn't become in play at all, but I understand the timeframe of what you're looking to do to move it in January so what is the best thing to get you in in the fastest, least disruptive. Normally, I would be concerned about money. But but I'm not the one requested the funds for this project so that's my third thing that I worry about so I worry about time and whether or not I can get enough people in there to do this type of work. And so, when I look at that, what are some of those best options if we were to look at the Freeman French room report, and what their assessment and they laid out expanding the committee rooms on the 30s and the 40s. We have in those rooms, the their induction units is what the air comes out of heating cooling fresh air. We did not touch the rooms, some of the smaller rooms it was, we get which room exactly it was it was the northeast corner. Was it where energy 35. Pardon, you're on our floor. Yes, that's correct room 35 was not touched. Right. And the reason to the best of our knowledge we're not having the ability to talk with Freeman French treatment about this whole thing is between your committee room and room 35. There is a return duct going down through that wall. And so, trying without having to redo all the HVAC that room stays the same size. It is, does that make sense. This coming year we're almost executing a contract for HVAC project for the State House. When we're all done with that and we start construction, hopefully in 23 that duct work that returned duct work may have to be enlarged, which means that room then changes. Or we put it in the floor below or in the ceiling above. And then I'm tearing apart those committee rooms yet again. But I'll have my design in place first, so that I'll be able to hit the ground running will have all our equipment material pre purchased and ready to go, whereas right now I have to do a design. I gotta I gotta get a contract, a design firm under contract, which takes time. We have to do the design. I have to get permits from historic preservation and for fire safety, and they're only going to want to do that once there's enough detail to what it's going to look like. So the details for fire safety are different than historic preservation they're going to see some of the finer details the finishes of the room and what we're taking out and putting back in. And then what I'd really hate is our mechanical engineer to become in midway through next year to say, you know, we're going to take out that wall also. The opportunity that you missed, or you might gain is room 35 stretches a little bit into what is your committee right now to gain a little bit more space, because at this point in time, that room 35 still doesn't apply with you know if you were down to a foot to three feet for COVID pandemic reasons, it's it's still tight people in there are tight so I would want to even expand further on the Freeman French Freeman report to really look at everything and how everybody fits best, knowing that and totally agree. I don't know about the HPC system, because I now look at this what was put forth and going, here's a potential addition. Yesterday I think I was listening, and you were saying well, we could do the, the short plan of the existing cafeteria. That would be a good thing to know whether or not this system can even handle that, if not, what are the alternatives. So that could and could not come into play. I just, your Freeman French Freeman, when I think we're putting the report together, they were aggressive, knowing they had to get it done and said, we start going to get any contract in place in April. This is the last day of April. I don't know when you're all going to be going home, and when the Capitol bill passes but let's say, two weeks. Let's let's hope for the best. And I'm three weeks behind at that point already. What I'd really like to do is put you in the best place possible. And I think to sort of come full circle on this is we have the, you have room 11, which I did with Kevin more yesterday that that's not the best sound quality room. Sorry, the legislative lounge is not, but you have the legislative lounge, you have room 10 room 11. There's room nine. And as a commissioner said we still have four rooms at the basement of 133 and three rooms that are set up at 109 this little extra space over in 109 out of those column anti rooms if you will. We have small conversations and the likes of that. But that is really the fastest way of moving people if there was no one committee room in the mezzanine and everybody in the mezzanine moved and fit over to to Aiken without any major changes that could work. But in my line of work what happens is you say, I will just run that new electrical cord over there and find out that like, you know, there's not enough power. And that goes to moving the copy room. I think it's a great idea of where Freeman friends Freeman said the copy room and it support should go. It used to be the old mechanical room for the State House before it was converted into ledge council. However, I'm moving exhaust fan and everything else that was over in the copy room do I have power over there. I go out on a limb and say I think I do. But I don't know until I get the design in place and find out well did we come up short. And then what do I have to do.  And then you're still going to have the backup rooms at 133109. And so it's really about proper planning and where we can get the best for you right now. So what I'm taking away from this is the the quickest thing we can do is use the rooms that were ever even fit up. And the only possible thing we could do in terms of reconfiguration along the lines of what Freeman friends Freeman recommended is possibly make a committee room out of the mezzanine that's that's not a good summary. Correct. And that means they the people in the mezzanine come to to a yes. Okay, so then we'd have to look at that. Yeah. So these are all moving pieces that at this point no decisions have been made. I want to be very clear to folks because some of these decisions are made with people higher up than us. So I just want to make sure people with clear about that. There are some initial decisions that have to be negotiated and we're on hold, waiting for that. And the space report from Freeman friends Freeman came in. That's an aggressive approach and timeline. And I have concerns personally about tearing down some walls which number one we might not be able to do for a variety of reasons. But by tearing down some of those walls you're going to lose four committees off the top four to five committees, and then where do we put them. And that's where we're going to put them. It's a long term decision, because you're not going to be building an addition for three or four years after that. So you lose that space in those committee rooms. You, you need to know where you're going to place those committees for at least three to four years. It's not just another summer. That's the reality. And that's what concerns me. And you're going to have some unhappy people. It's tough. This is a tough conversation. And it's really difficult to have this type of conversation when we're not in the building. Michelle. Yeah, I just wanted to say, I mean, one thing that I find interesting is that I mean, of course, there's a lot that we don't know. But it feels like we're not necessarily taking into consideration all that we do know that that is happening now, as opposed to a year from a year ago. So a year ago when the decision was made a little more than a year ago that it wasn't safe to meet in the state house, nobody was immunized. We didn't have an immunization that was even possible for anybody. And by the time we go back in January, the majority, I think it's safe to say the majority of our legislators will be will be immunized. You know, we have over a year of data of schools who have had children varying distances apart and in most cases they found if they're three feet apart they're okay. In most cases at a school they haven't had a single case from staff or students. It's possible for people to get together and be safe. And with the higher rates of immunization it feels like we could do this safely. And so I'm grateful that Vermont has been very cautious, but it also feels like there are ways that we can do this wisely. And we were willing to look at all the data and do whatever we can to move forward because we don't need to have the same restrictions that we had a year ago. The world is changing and there's some information that could make it easier on us. And I hope that we'll do that because honestly as a first year legislator who has been 100% remote. I don't need to be back in the building I need to know what the model is that is supposed to be operating. Before I decide if I'm going to run again. You know we haven't we haven't had the full experience and we're not able to build the relationships that everyone tells us are so essential to be effective as a legislator where we're operating at a disadvantage. And so Vermont would be best served by having us back together and for those people who are not able to come back together. Maybe we have some exceptions where people continue to be remote if they need to for for their own reasons. But I hope we can look at that and make a plan and move forward and not wait so long that we aren't able to do it, because I think this is really important for Vermont and and for all of us that are trying to serve our constituents as best as we can. I think we have some really good points, but one point that I think also needs to be presented the legislative body and our work is a little different than schools in that. And this is one of the reasons we we got sent home. 180 members coming from every single part of the state. And you put a group of 180 people close together that come from every part of the state. And we could be a great super spreader to everyone else in the state, when we go back home. And that was the real concern. Last year. And now yes, vaccines have come in. That changes the landscape thank goodness for that. The cases have been going down, there's variants that have come in, we don't know, but our function is very different because we are bringing people in from all parts of the state into one building. And then you throw in the lobbyists who are also coming from a dispersed part of the state. And then you bring in the public groups that are coming in the State House is the hub that could spread this all out to the whole state again. That, that's a little different piece than a school. Now was that going to play next year or not that's what played in March. We haven't gotten out of that building, when we did, we could have spread this to every part of the state. And that that was the real concern back in March for that so it's not to negate what Michelle is saying. But that's a piece of this conversation in our work that's a little different than some of the other workplaces that we experience in our private life. For that. So, Sarah, and then Kurt, did you also have your hand up there was some or was it Michael. So Sarah. Just a question for the commissioner or. And maybe Joe, I want to make sure that we're really clear on when decision points need to be made. And, and I, this is very helpful to have you in today but I'm wondering if it's possible to get some of this on paper so that, you know, others can see the site, you know, it's, it's, yeah, it's a lot. I know, and it's, and I hesitate to even ask you to do this but it's the kind of, I think it'll help make the work easier. And is that something that absolutely happy happy to do that and I know one of the representatives brought up doing a site visit. And if, if anybody's interested next week happy to happy to take some folks around and look at some spaces I don't even know if that's an option but I'm just saying we could hold on. I mostly, I'm mostly interested in understanding, you know, when decisions need to be made for the technology piece you know is happening. If we need to do the fit ups in a certain way, you know, so that so that our colleagues have the information that they need before them to make those decisions, so that we can allow you the time to do your work and so we're talking about what can happen. Because there often can be a disconnect between what we like, you know what we dream of and what we want and what's realistic about moving into a whatever space it is. Absolutely, I can work with Joe to put that together and happy to send it to the committee members. Part of it though just so folks know is your legislative it staff as well right if we're going to fit up other spaces for technology that's, that's there Bailey Bailey WEC versus us so we could speak for ourselves and if if Kevin Moore is available happy to, you know happy to work with him and have him also chime in on the schedule and decision points as well. Yeah, that would be great and one of the questions that we didn't ask him directly was like, you know what when does he need. We've been here reading in the news about supply chain, you know I just want to know, and I think he's been thinking I'm assuming he's been thinking about this. The other pieces I want to make sure that I understand clearly, because we were talking about Monday and money and fee for space. And I understand that we, the legislature reserve these spaces and has been paying speed for space. When we talk about the amount of money that's that is going to be needed going forward I just want to make sure I'm clear and understanding when we talk about that the $700,000 was paid for I'm assuming out of the corona really fund money. Right, but there's so yeah this is and that, but that there's my understanding is that there's some funding that's put to the side and this might not be a question for it that you can answer it might be for our joint fiscal or the management but I just want to make sure that I'm understanding because there are a few numbers that have been tossed around about that we have two and a half million dollars in the budget to do this work for the legislature and I want to know if it's like we have to take the fee for space that's already been reserved out of that so that we that we have less than two million to do this work or if that money remains so I'm not sure and Madam chair you might know the better. But I want to make sure that we understand the timeline and the resources that we think we have and what what our chat options are if if the legislature continues to retain all of the space that is currently under the exclusive use of providing this biennium for the temporary needs of the legislature to meet back in person, then there will be another $700,000 that the legislature will need to pay BGS to occupy all the spaces. If the legislature relinquishes back the spaces that are not being needed, because for whatever reason, when we went back and reassessed it they weren't considered viable spaces. If you relinquish those other spaces back to us then you won't pay fee for space for those spaces next year, meaning that $700,000 figure goes down right, unfortunately by the spaces that you give back, which then allows you to then use that funding right for other purposes which could include fit up or whatever you want to do with it. But as to your direct question about that $700,000 and where it's been configured into the budget I don't I don't have the answer to that. Thank you I think that as as this unfolds we will, I'm sure that will be figuring that piece out. And I do I do have a you know I do have a spreadsheet that basically itemizes all of the spaces and the cost of those spaces as well. So we are back to the classic BGS order of operations question, Eric Philhorn BGS of what are your programmatic needs. And so legislative leadership needs to commit to how they intend to do business in January. And then we can respond to that to the associated needs. Okay, so much time. Right, that's a good enough situation and other people need to make this decision. We can't do it you know how do we. It's not our role at this point. Madam chair if I may. You know, those decisions do come into play with the whole audio visual part of it. Because as you know in your committee room, there's no wires hanging off the wall or coming across the floor stuff like that so you know, and not just your committee room there are a few others but there are others that are not set up for audio visual. And what is that expectation, when somebody says you know if they tell me in December. This is going in all these rooms and conceal all these wires, it can't be done. And we may have to live with that, you know what that if it's temporary, we can live with that. I'm okay with that I just as Eric said about the programmatic needs, the programming includes that. Here's where you go so we need to know where you go what you need for fit up and if it's truly temporary. These are the things that we do to get by temporary, but that's some of that guidance, I will need also to help with that because if it's permanent, we do a different job. If it's temporary, we do make it look nice. There's no trip hazards, right, but it is different than permit. Right, and I think we'll have to, you know, we can accept that. And then we can, because I think the priority and I think Michelle laid it out well. The priority is for us to get back in this building so we can start getting to know each other. So we can function as a legislative body and do good legislative work. And for the new folks that were elected and even the folks who came in the previous biennium have never really felt the feel of the building. So we've got between 180 people, we have at least half of those folks that have never really experienced the full legislative experience. And that's my concern in terms of how we legislate, and where we're going to be as a legislative body and a general assembly after this, so that we don't lose our integrity as a body. That's what's at stake here if we don't get back in the building. And I think Michelle laid it out quite well that new members have no clue what the feel of that building is. I know it's hard for them to figure out if they even want to continue doing this work, and even folks who are current legislators can't keep this pace up. So there's a lot at stake in terms of the strength of our legislative body and our branch of government because we are an equal branch of government. We are being strained right now. And I'm concerned about that. I have a very special place in my heart for the general assembly. And I don't want to lose it. Sorry. Madam chair we want to help you review. Yeah, and it's from honors home. And we can't lose it. It is the people's house and we are the people. And somehow we have to make it work and you're absolutely right Alice. All feel the same even if they haven't been in the state house like you and I and Mary and Marsha have been. It's, it's something that you cannot easily describe the feeling that you have. I was staying at the Capitol Plaza and going to work in the morning and looking up and said, Oh my gosh, what a gorgeous building and I can't believe this is where I, I am located where I am working for the people of my area so it's, it's something that we have to do and I have to agree it's got to be temporary. We can, we can move around all the other stuff just to get us back and hopefully get somebody to make a decision to get started. So, thank you for your part, Alice, because we know we're all with you. Michael. So Madam Chair, I will triple down on what you said to Michelle's comments that I, Michelle virtually stole the words out of my mouth that I was going to say at the tail end and she got to it first and I applaud her for that. I feel exactly the same I understand what you said with your concerns with, I guess folks have the concern that there's 180 of us that can come from all corners of the state but with us all rapidly approaching vaccinations. Such and then depending what the governor does an emergency order. I think we're robbing the Vermont taxpayers by not being in the Capitol building we're not doing good legislating this is Michael Morgan's opinion only I'm not speaking for the crew but I think we owe it to the taxpayer to be in that building doing the work. And in order to do it correctly, we need to be there. And we owe the taxpayers nothing short of that period. Thank you. Anything else. So this is a hard not to crack. These are hard conversations to have and their decisions that need to be made that are up above us for the time being and when once one or two of those decisions are made then things will start flowing. And it's hard to make a path forward when we don't know what's at the end of that path. It's really what's happening here with a health issue. That's what's so difficult about this for that. And I think people need to keep in mind as we move forward and whatever direction that is. Particularly if we get back in the building which is the goal that some of those space situations are temporary. I think we have to keep that in mind, particularly for the next session. It's temporary. And, and I see a discussion occurring more next session in terms of what is the long term plan. You can't really figure out that long term plan. So you can address the immediate need of getting us back in the building and my pet enough say today. Sorry. Any other questions I think it's time to close it up. It's closing in on noon. It's been a long week. Anything else from BGS. I just want to reiterate that I don't know if you can tell, but I've been back in my office for the last, maybe three or four weeks. And I had some apprehension myself about returning because I had been remote and sort of isolated for a long time back my husband's the one that drives the kids all around and ran all the errands so I literally stayed on my property for almost a year and didn't leave. The idea of getting in my car and going somewhere and kind of being close to people was really scary. It was really scary for me. Unfortunately, my husband broke his ankle. And basically overnight, I was shipping all the kids around going to the grocery store and I also thought that if anybody's going to return to the office should be the BGS commissioner right. And I will tell you that while it was, it was scary and I was apprehensive. As soon as I did it, I really enjoyed it. In fact, I've enjoyed it even I'm an office person and I'm people person but I've enjoyed it even more so for example Joe was in his office which is upstairs. I haven't seen Joe in person in over a year. And the moment I saw Joe I was like, Oh, people again seeing people in person this is so much better than I even thought that it was ever going to be. So what I'm trying to say is I identify with all of you. I completely understand wanting to be back in person BGS wants to do everything we can do to support you in doing that and I hope that we've been that partner all along, trying to help you guys come back to in person committee sessions so we're here. The other thing I'd like to mention that we didn't touch on is that BGS are also your custodians and your maintenance mechanics. Right, we've been operationalizing all of the COVID-19 health and safety requirements, the entire time. And I will tell you that we've done our custodial staff is amazing, and very dedicated and committed to what they do every single day. And we have done an amazing job at addressing the COVID-19 health and safety requirements. In fact, there has been very little positive COVID-19 cases in our buildings and when we've had them they have not spread, because our staff knows exactly what to do when when there's you know somebody in our building that's the tad COVID. So I hope that also maybe alleviates a little bit of concern about sort of the health and safety side of things you know we will continue as as the governor continues to establish and kind of go with the flow of COVID-19 and continue to operationalize all those health and safety requirements I just want to give you a little. I want to make you feel a little bit good there that we have folks that are working really hard to keep everybody really healthy and safe in our buildings and again, we want to support you in your programmatic outcomes I hope you want to support BGS and our programmatic outcomes. That's why we re looked at our space plan and said, is there something we can do to both help the state house and the legislative body, temporarily, and also at least give you a little bit of room on the, on the permanent side as well which is is how to make sure everything comes into the play. All that being said, again, we would like the flexibility, like we talked about in Williston and I just want to make sure I get it on the record that we also would like the ability to sell the Baldwin's as well. But we are committed to bringing you back will do everything we can we've we've continued to give you our best project managers along the way. Joe continues to join me because he's my best technical expert and all things buildings. Whatever we can do for you we want to do it. But again, you are correct the decisions need to be made, because time is not on our side. So we will need some decisions in order for us to move forward. Madam Chair, we manage people in 260 buildings across the state. So we, we do this everywhere, but I learned very early on in my career at BGS, and I might have even learned it before that that there is a building in Vermont that is the most important building in Vermont. And we all want to get back into it, and we are all committed to helping that happen. We're co equal branches of government, but we all work for the same people. Anything else before we finish up with you folks in the committee. Thank you. Hopefully next week, maybe, I hope we have a path. We'll have a bill. We're gonna have a bill.


lking history with dr joe kelly fascinating stuff i hope you agree the 90 noon show with letter kenny credit union now offering mycu current account and debit mastercard bringing full banking features delivered with the same local trustworthy service of your credit union this friday the 90 noon show will broadcast live from rush fitness in letter kenny to celebrate the opening of their brand new state-of-the-art personal training studios the team at rush fitness have an action packed launch day in store as they prepare to launch donnie gall's first boutique style personal training suite that's this friday from 90 noon live from rush fitness listen in on letter kenny nutrius milk replace a range which includes nutri start and nutri start plus offers the best start to your calves this spring season with 23 percent and 25 percent crude proteins ideal for calf to beef and heifer rearing systems give your calves the best possible start available at your local homeland store visit nutrius.ie 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available at the clanry hotel<PHONE_NUMBER> remember there's no show like a joe show always a sellout book now at aldi we're committed to being fairer greener healthier fairer by raising one million euro for bernardo's because no child should be left behind greener we aim to have our plastic packaging by 2025 healthier by providing fresh fruit and veg and amazing prices yes that includes your favorites kids sprouts and spinach change doesn't happen overnight but at aldi we're working hard to get better every day see aldi dot ie for details relax and unwind in the newly refurbished raddison blue hotel letter kenny where all 114 guest rooms and suites have undergone a complete luxury upgrade get back on track with a visit to the health club monthly membership deals available from only 32 euro per month drop in and visit the newly refurbished raddison blue letter kenny today hey you you're going to be brilliant today see everyone needs a boost these days and it couldn't be easier to get one everyone age 16 and over can book a booster appointment for their covet 19 vaccine it'll reduce your chances of being seriously ill and you can book a time and date that suits you at hsc.ie your appointment will need to be three months since your last vaccine and wait three months if you had covet 19 since you're vaccinated visit hsc.ie now from the hsc and you welcome back to the program now every year multiple times in the one year since parking charges were introduced to letter kenny university hospital there have been calls there were national calls in 2018 for a review of the charges locally there have been calls to find out where the money goes you know what's the money being used for what's the advantage uh and so on and so forth the conversation is happening again on a national level i think in terms of uh the impact on patients letter kenny university hospital fair is okay compared to some other hospitals the likes of go away that others that people from this area would actually visit but anyway uh the leader of entu deputy padertow bean uh do you want them done away with uh firstly good morning to you uh do you want them done away with all together i would like them done away with all together if possible but there is um a difficulty in that i don't think we'd be able to achieve that and we're finding it a bit of resistance from the government even in the plan that we have and the plan that entu has is that a person who is an outpatient of a hospital would have free car parking charges in the hospital for three hours uh every time that they visit and the reason that we want that is because obviously you know a serious illness like cancer heart disease stroke or or mental health these are life changing uh and diagnosis both for the patient and for the families but what people probably don't realize is that there's a massive economic cost to those illnesses too so the Irish Cancer Society has estimated that at least 800 euros extra costs are faced by these patients you know in things like you know travel up and down to hospitals uh hotel overnight's bnb overnight's even child-minding costs uh for example and also there's a double whammy because people who have these uh diagnosis are also faced with a serious reduction in income so you know the Irish Cancer Society reckons that on average a cancer patient will have a reduction of income of about 1400 euros a month so in real terms it's about 2200 euros worse off because of that particular diagnosis and we think that it's just illogical that these patients who are suffering health-wise and financially are being asked to pay high car high car parking charges in hospitals on a regular basis so they're going back and forth from chemotherapy and radiotherapy as an outpatient and you know that can add up to 60 quid a month 60 quid a month to 700 quid a year and what we're seeing then is that this is a tax on illness and we in aim to believe that you know the health service the public health service should be paid for on the basis of of uh income tax because income tax identifies those who can afford to pay and those who can't afford to pay it's a more it's a more nuanced it's a more targeted way of those who can pay uh that do pay and those that at least able to pay or their circumstances change more drastically they don't have to and as I say it's not it's not a it's not a uh it's not so it's it's more nuanced it's really it's fair it's much fair it's much more it's a better understanding of a bit of people's abilities to pay so and this particular bill as well it's a cautious bill as you say yourself it doesn't you know throw the door wide open and and the reason we didn't do that is because we figured the department wouldn't allow that secondly and there's an issue of what they call car park management and so if you give free car parking charges or to everybody in hospitals there's a danger that people will park the car it's not a danger it's a reality because that was you know part of the argument for introducing them remarkably people were parking the car in the hospital car park heading to work or heading shopping or whatever exactly and and therefore those who really needed them and wouldn't be able to access those car parks at all and now there's there's a political difficulty here minister and the former minister for health Simon Harris announced a review into this in 2018 as you said yourself believe it or not that review has never even been published by by the governments here four years later every single political party from Sinn Fein, Fianna Fawth and Gail Labour had this plan in their manifestos and the general election but unfortunately none of them have acted upon it and this is despite an in fairness to you know councillors for example on on regional health forums do raise this on a regular basis you know but obviously at that level it can't affect change of all political so I think the councillors on the ground realized the problem with this we just need it to be addressed nationally now what does it mean when the government says it won't reject the bill that sounds like well it's just going to sail through those two houses and everything will be changed in a short matter of weeks unfortunately our system doesn't quite work like that no you're right unfortunately and what happens in in Irish politics like on a regular basis is a way for the government to say no is for them to say yes and then just ignore it so I would often see here in the door where ministers and government TVs go out to the front gates with campaigns put their arms around them you know smile for the cameras stand behind the banners and they go back into the door that's a very very cynical attitude you have unfortunately that's the way the political system works it's a little bit like yes prime minister unfortunately and the thing about this too I don't know why anyone would resist it because we're talking about 12 million euro that's being gathered here you know in terms of multiple years that's not an awful far lot off where the hsc spends on debt collection for cancer patients you know especially with what the spending we've seen in the last couple of years the amount of stress and anxiety this causes 12 million it's nothing it should be done away with forthwith why would anyone resist this amount in the the black hole money pit that is the hsc absolutely so the 21 billion euros expenditure this is the drop in the ocean and in in that term but it is on the flip side it's 60 000 euros a day in charges from people who can lease afford it so it's a significant chunk of of their income and you know in reality the government needs to just buy the bottles of this it needs to accept the aim to bill not just let us to languish in the legislative process for a number of years but to actually run with it and push it through now some might say car parks and hospitals we've talked about the police and that you talked about but extensions were able to be bought because this money was able to be used to extend car parks and offer better facilities whilst that sounds like a good argument on the face of it you're saying especially with the budget the health service is given would you say that we shouldn't have to rely on on tax further taxing on cancer patients to build car park extensions we should be doing that through through general taxation yeah listen um there's no doubt that this was created by most hospitals to build the the funding gaps that they were experiencing from central government but this like you know if you look at agency staff in hospitals you know agency staff or staff that are not paid directly from hospitals but their wages are far higher than the general staff which costs the hsc millions of euros on an annual basis if you look at the hsc hasn't still got in place a a proper it system where each patient has a number where people are running around with with files physical files on each patient where taxis are going from hospital to hospital with physical files you know there's there's about 10 different areas that we could sit down and identify efficiencies and money savings uh elements within the agency you don't charge patients rent for sitting in the ed seat to pay someone to clean ed that would be there that would be you know so it's the kind of the same model but but outside it just it's incredible in university hospital in go away and they offer free car parking charges for the first 20 minutes but what's happening is patients are leaving the waiting rooms every 20 minutes to drive the car in and out like it's bananas and you know because of the Irish cancer societies campaigns we do know that about 12 hospitals have started to reduce their charges and but that's very opaque it's not very clear many patients are using the hospital really is as well there are some actual good schemes that that work there and I'll say for instance you can get a pass down at another kind of university hospital for 15 euro for a week that's still too much for some but is it are people aware of it you know is it is it well publicized this this is it so you have to be in the know in in certain aspects to be able to access that listen we're talking about people who have had life changing diagnosis many people who have a black cloud hanging over their families you know where their actual existence is under threat and we're asking these people who have suffered this massive blow to their lives and the financial blow that goes with it we're asking them to shell out again at the car on the way out on the car park it's just not good enough the government is taxing ill health they're taxing sickness we need to cop on to ourselves as a state we need to show these people compassion give them support and that's why I'm asking people to support the aim to right so just just very finely so I haven't confused it what what you want this to have not just no resistance but you want it to have cross-party government support to get it through both houses is that is that really yeah exactly we don't want the government's to just allow this through and let it bounce around the legislative process for years and and not make progress through the doll we want the government parties and the opposition parties to grab this and run with one of the best ways to do that is just for people you know who feel strongly about this issues to get on to the local cancerists get on to the local TDS and you know say that demands that you know those political parties support the aim to build in this circumstance okay finally how are you okay how are you feeling we spoke to you last year you were at a medical scare yourself and you were using your platform to get a message out there are you in good form everything okay with you yeah yeah thankfully the the cancer this hasn't recurred for me thank god and I still go on further the the three monthly checkups whereby they they do a full skin scan and just visually to see is there any moles and to be honest now and again and the consultant knocks off a mole here and there but it's it's minor business compared to where it was at a year ago and the only the only scars I have now is that I look like a my head looks like a boiled egg that's tough and by a spoon at the moment but thank god we're we're a hailing heart okay thank you very much for joining us thank you all right take care of yourself okay back with more shortly the 9 till noon show with letter Kenny credit union now offering mortgages with life cover provided at no additional cost letter Kenny credit union 9102127 for great fuel deals contact Gortley sales and hire large sacks and trailer loads of logs also briquettes coal kindling and gas with free delivery locally contact Gortley sales and hire in letter Kenny on 9126276 if the medical experts get it wrong everything changes from misdiagnosis or delay diagnosis to surgical injury or even poor treatment all have physical emotional and financial consequences we're here to help so if your treatment didn't go according to plan speak to our experienced medical negligence team at mackleheny and associates find us online or call<PHONE_NUMBER> mackleheny and associates solicitors struner in contentious business a solicitor may not calculate fees or other charges as a percentage or proportion of any award or settlement for a huge selection of furniture all in one showroom pulling to grow furnishings in letter Kenny sofas beds wardrobes tables and chairs also a range of carpet vinyl rugs and laminated flooring if it's time for a change it's time for a visit to grow furnishings growth deliver throughout dunny gall dairy and tarot be inspired at grow furnishings kill toy road letter Kenny it was a sunny morning doubted he'd been to mass there was talk about the march whether it would go ahead or not the priest had told him to be careful and to keep an eye on the young fellas i was 22 first to we was edgy we was told to expect trouble you were the trouble we were ready for anything that was us they're not trying to deal with when you come back home some didn't get to come back home an incident with dave cotter a new player by bloody sunday at the baller theater 23rd 24th of february the chitlam festival is almost here get informed with the Irish fields award-winning chitlam magazine produced an association with goss trainers willy mullins gordon elliott and henry de bromhead all feature read the story behind the unbeaten honey suckle simon roland's provides expert analysis and there's interviews with many other owners trainers and jockeys hoping to visit the winner's enclosure the Irish field chitlam magazine in shops now or order your copy on the Irish field dot ie highland radio time checks brought to you by letter candy shopping center the center of shopping in dunny yall free parking and shopping all under one roof letter candy shopping center bringing you the time at 11 35 and on to the program we welcome mary lane part of the campaign to get educate together second level school provided for letter candy good morning to you mary thanks for joining us good morning great how are you good to have you with us right so what is the process for the establishment of an educate together second level school well do you know this that is a very good question and that is a question that we still need to get the right answer for and that can sort of give a bit of background as a way to watch is happening has happened really this has all this has kicked off within the last week or so there were a group of parents we started back at the parents and toddler groups after covid loads of us mamis and daddies we hadn't seen each other since before covid and we were now back at the baby groups with our pandemic babies and our then toddlers are now in primary school and we just got talking about primary schools and you know that they're all starting off and you know chatting where have each of our kids gone and that and there was a lot have gone to the educate together primary school and now I know my sister is an educate together secondary school teacher in Dublin so I'm sort of familiar with the ethos of of an educate together secondary school and I asked if anybody was aware if there was any campaign or any motion happening behind the scenes to get a secondary school for the town and nobody had heard of anything and and before we knew it with a whole gang of mamis and daddies all sat around chatting going right come on we have to so we're very at the very early stages of this then the committee has been and campaigners is forming now so a lot of questions remain unanswered so we don't know yet is a perfectly acceptable answer to any of my questions mary but what what um what need um would a educate together secondary school in Etto can he serve well to be very honest it would be a fresh approach for education in the town at second level and the four pillars of educate together are equality based co-educational learner centered and democratically run and the students are at the centre of everything that is happening and it really it is for my observation a new word of of of horror school is run um you know by by obviously the staff but also by the parents and the students who are encouraged to be an active participation at every at every point um throughout the process um there is there is a lack of choice for co-educational co-educational schools in letter Kenny um even the the number of children of young people who are in single-sex education in letter Kenny is over 1700 whereas there's only just over 500 are in co-educational um but there is a that may change in the not too distant future though those those wheels can turn quite slowly yeah you say not too distant future 10 to 15 years is what the government has said our our children will be in university or in their in their jobs by the time that could come to fruition okay do you know then mary or do we know sorry then how are they funded do you know what i mean like is there an educate together uh organization you know because obviously you either require or convert a school but probably build one from scratch it's a huge undertaking uh is that done through fundraising from the community or is there do it do if the responsibility on the Department of Education to provide it if the need is there yes so my understanding and i am happy to be corrected if i have got this kind of wrong in any way um my understanding is that first there is the assessment of need in an in an area um as to whether or not an extra school is required once that need has been established it then don't pretty much get put out to tender for all interested parties who wish to take patronage of the school and that there is an educate together body um and they oversee 21 second level schools in the country at the moment in addition to all the primary schools and and basically all interested parties be it the gale school movement be it um Catholic Church be it you know any other denomination um or body that or VEC or sorry ETB um that wishes to take patronage of a school um then they basically put it put across their case and it is it is to my knowledge the Department of Education that makes the final decision on who gets the patronage but for letter Kenny um even if there were other bodies interested um we do think that the educate together um would have a very very compelling and strong case within the town because there are other um you know there there is an ETB school there are um two Catholic Church schools and there is a gale college and so to and as well because there is the very growing um educate together primary school yes there definitely is okay so this sorry Mary I have to I have to move along just to wrap things up but we'll speak down the line I'm sure this obviously is a campaign that's as by your description has started very organically but there are people listening that say right I didn't know this was even a thing I want to get involved in that how do people get involved get more information on the campaign it's very early days as we said from from the get go so how do anyone interested how do they get more information or get involved or offer expertise or whatever it might be Mary sure well we've set up a facebook page um so it would be facebook.com forward slash ETSS for letter Kenny and we've also a website has just started there's not much on it as yet but hopefully that will grow and it's ETSS for letter Kenny dot IE um we we are keen to hear particularly from people who from families who are currently opting to leave letter Kenny we know that there are buses of kids who go to Raffaul, Milford and other and other places in search of particularly co-educational and multi-denominational education so we'd really love to hear people's stories why they've chosen to go elsewhere and as well as new people to the town we want to hear you know we will be doing all sorts of different surveys and things as time goes on those will all be published on our website and facebook page and so that there will be an awful lot of consultation I would imagine that will go that will go ahead and form part of this so you can check out ETSS for letter Kenny on facebook and get the links to the website and all from there thanks for that Mary no problem all right bye bye take care Mary Lane part of a new campaign to get educated together secondary second level at school for letter Kenny homeland fuel offers keeping you warm for less 40 kg premium doubles or easy flame coal buy 10 bags get one free hardwood logs two bags for 10 euro flow gas 25 pound gas cylinder only 27 euro 99 shop in store or online at homeland.ie as you start rediscovering northern Ireland again we want you to explore with confidence that's why we've introduced the we're good to go industry standard for tourism and hospitality 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centra in there Kenny in store you'll find a huge range of great tasting own brand products fresh produce including fresh meat and frozen foods along with all your day-to-day needs say yes to savings every day at Kelly centra mountaintop there Kenny whatever the weather night or day letter Kenny driving range is open to 10 p.m. daily are you a beginner or thinking of taking up golf our base allow you to practice the good and not so good shots for as little as three euro practice makes perfect at a letter Kenny driving range open seven days find us on facebook cattle trade on fire as beef passes five euro a kilo for more in this week's farmers journal is paul mooney factory feedlots drive mark trade towards record prices supreme court gives green light for a glambia cheese plant we take a look at the measures in the new agri-environment scheme farmers with mica affected sheds asked to come forward and in Irish country living we explore the rising cost of living and launch our new rural housing series plus don't miss your free newspaper for young farmers only inside this week's Irish farmers journal on sale now okay you're very welcome back to the program now you'll remember the story last year wouldn't you of a number of defibrillators being tampered with pads were being taken from them old pads being left in their place which meant they were not not available in the event of an emergency regularly in this program we talk about life rings being tossed off bridges disappearing and all that type of thing so obviously those who feel it's feeling inclined to do so don't feel that it is you know they're going to get a decent punishment for what could effectively cost another person their life well senator Robbie Gallagher joins us on the program now you want senator good morning to you by the way good morning Greg and thank you for having me on no thank you for joining us you want um higher penalties heftier penalties for people found to be interfering with the likes of defibs or live boys just as a question is it a specific offense to to deal with life-saving or to tamper with life-saving equipment I wonder well Greg currently um it's not a specific offense and that's what we are trying to do here in relation to this piece of legislation currently um offenses of this nature are dealt with under the criminal damages act 1991 which would be the equivalent of somebody for example maybe breaking a park bench or riding graffiti on a wall uh something minor like that and I think you saw them drop perfectly in their introduction there this is much much more serious and back in uh 2017 um myself and senator German Wilson and then senator Keith Swanwick a GP from from Mayo introduced a piece legislation called the life-saving equipment bill and basically its main focus was to introduce a specific offense for anyone that could say and to fear with or damage or remove any piece of life-saving equipment and that as you outlined yourself could be a defibrillator it could be a life boy or could be a light ring so that's that's what we're hoping for here that basically we feel that it's up to legislators to put up the legislation and we feel currently unfortunately this particular offense and examples of it and you've dealt with them on your own station where defibrillators are damaged or life boys or life rings are taken away is hugely serious and it could be without overreacting it could be a matter of life or death for sure and it means to if this were passed a sign could be erected close to it and there'd be public information out there as well so which states that if you tamper with or a fan to damage this piece of equipment you could face a prison sentence of up to five years a 50,000 euro fine or both that would stiffen the cough absolutely I think we need to send a strong message out there that this is huge to hugely important and apart from the aspect where we could be talking here about the potentially saving someone's life in in say for example in relation to a defibrillator this is what we're talking about here but not alone that Greg approximately we have about 2,000 defibrillators located through every length and breadth of the country and they were put there by and large by volunteers that would be a GA club soccer club or even a business that fund raised to put them there in the force base and then we had people voluntarily coming forward as force responders who took time out of their own time that is and went and got trained and keep themselves upskilled in order to be able to respond to somebody in their in their hour of need and not alone it's also a crime on the community and it's a crime on those people so I think we owe it to those people and into the community at large to send out a strong strong message here that listen anybody that interferes with this will be dealt with very very strongly why is it taking five years so far what's the hold up up until now I'm disappointed to say that the previous government there was there was some resistance to this they felt that that there was legislation already in place to deal with this and we had difficulty moving it forward since the change of government we've had a number of meetings scheduled with the department we have more scheduled next week actually to try and move this forward I'm hopeful and confident we've moved on now Greg to committee stage and we have only one more stage left before it's finished in the Shannon and then moves on to the doll and from there the president because the call the courts aren't going to be flooded with people being brought before them onto this legislation I just think this is one of those where the law would be 99% deterrent absolutely correct and right and that's what we're doing here we're trying to strong message that anybody that is caught doing this will say that very very strongly if dealt with through the courts and ultimately that's the message we're trying to get out here because it is a simple this could potentially save so much life yeah all right okay and it's it's a huge problem right across the country we hear a lot of it but we don't hear all of it I'm not sure if it's all noted and logged as perhaps it should because what happens is is a life boys chucked off a bridge here and the local search and rescue or local volunteers either risk their lives again rooting it out of the water and putting it back where it is or find some way to replace it without it being treated or logged you know as an offense or as an occurrence so I think there's a lot of this going on and this would certainly put pay to a lot of it I think thank you for joining us senator no you're welcome thanks for having me all right no no it's our pleasure senator Robbie Gallagher there I think most would agree would you if you disagree of course oh eight six sixty twenty five thousand now we are out and about tomorrow it's business as usual by the way we have our Friday panel between nine and ten discussing lots of big stories big issues it's one of the most popular hours of the program and then we have um michael and fenula joining us from 10 to 11 but it's all coming live from rush fitness in letter kenny for the official launch of donnie gall's first boutique style fitness suites now I didn't see all of it but we called down yesterday just to have a look around and it's beautiful it's big it's open it's airy and it's in tons loads of parking and all that kind of stuff really close to letter kenny as well there'll be tours and trials all day so you're invited to go along and they didn't ask us to do the official opening no you have to have competed for one of the premier boxing world titles that's jason quickly of course jason's going to be cotton the ribbon that's at six p.m but throughout the course of the day you're invited to go down and have a look at it we're broadcasting live from it throughout the morning nine till 12 a lot of the show obviously is what you'd expect but also we'll get a sense of what's going on there and as I say try and talk to you about it so you can go and have a look at it look at it as well if you're in and around that area so looking forward to going down and seeing the crew at rush fitness for the show tomorrow between nine and 12 call it says why can't the hospital hsc manage the car park themselves so instead of just getting a small percentage they'd generate millions over the year which could be plowed back into the hospital time for the hospital to be more self-sufficient uh arguably you could say that the car park the whole notion of it was you know you pay a bit for it to be managed you can use some of the funds for spend on the hospital to extend the car park and you don't have to rely on central government funding that model probably at the time was argued as being one which was self-sufficient but i'm not contradicting you and i take your point come back to us in three minutes the nine till noon show with letter kenny credit union now offering mortgages from 40 000 to 600 000 euro with no hidden fees or transaction charges letter kenny credit union 9102127 i used to play football here when i was a school girl now i'm here coaching the next generation being a garden means thinking quickly being active and loving the excitement of not knowing what's around the corner what it also means working as part of a team guiding young people and helping keep people safe you'll have plenty of skills that could help you be a garden you might not know what they are yet but they're there apply to join as a garden trainee by the 16th of march at publicjobs.ie on garden sheikana the difference is you at hikki clark and langan insurance brokers they compare quotes from all the leading insurers so you get a great price home motor and van farm holiday home travel and liability insurance they quote them all so if the worst happens you're covered for a competitive insurance quote today called hikki clark and langan on 912668 or pop into their office at bali mccool letter kenny hikki clark and langan general insurance is limited trading as hikki clark and langan is regulated by the central bank of ireland are you troubled with painful varicose veins with spring only around the corner why wait to seek treatment restore the health and beauty of your legs with rapid access to a vein consultation at kingsbridge private hospital letter kenny our vascular consultants offer assessment advice and options on the latest treatments available book your appointment today visit kingsbridgeprivatehospital.ie to find out more because life matters at crucially supermarket we offer daily specials at our deli with fresh and delicious food to go available butchers weekly specials or choose from a range of healthy options and pre-packed meals plus many more offers in store we're open seven days for your convenience crucially supermarket where quality and value is assured the three amigos jimmy buckling robert brazil and patrick finney are coming back to donnie gall see this amazing show live at jackson's hotel molly buffet monday february 28 tickets priced at 35 euro and are now on sale at the hotel reception and ticketmaster.ie this award-winning show is not to be missed island ready or weather updates with island west airport discover ember this summer with reiner's three times weekly service stunning architecture endless winding streets and an awe-inspiring castle island west airport you're flying so today will be a blustery one with bright spells and showers some of them heavy some with hail temperatures five to seven degrees but with the breeze the with the wind feeling much colder than that i am told uh storm units will move up from the south west tonight overnight and friday morning will be stormy with severe and damaging northwest winds and gusts there'll be falls of rain sleet and snow with localized blizzards there is a risk of coastal flooding too at high tide early on friday morning the storm will clear with blustery wintery showers following on friday afternoon and evening right just want to mention before we go that the northwest simon community regional tea day is taking place today the chart is calling on the region to host a tea day on thursday the 7th of february or any day that suits during the month of february this is the 17th of february isn't it okay so uh keep an eye out anywhere locally um the word that's hosting that okay uh listen that's where we have to leave it on the program today thank you to all of you who took time to uh watch or listen to