Preview 1. Alexis de Tocqueville. NBC invites you to listen to the first of two discussion programs previewing NBC's dramatic radio series, Democracy in America, based on the classic work of Alexis de Tocqueville, a young French nobleman who visited the United States in 1831, 1832, at the time of President Andrew Jackson. De Tocqueville was so impressed with our new young nation that he wrote Democracy in America, acclaimed all over the world as the definitive book on America. It's interesting to note, Tocqueville's precepts are almost as true today as when they were first written. This weekly series of 14 half-hour dramatizations of American democratic life, based on de Tocqueville's book, will have its world premiere on the NBC radio network one week from tonight, Wednesday, January the 17th, at the same time over most of these NBC stations. And now preview one, Alexis de Tocqueville. And here's your moderator, Dorothy Gordon, known to you as the founder and moderator of Youth Forums and author of the book You and Democracy, a book for children. Miss Gordon. Well, here we are, sitting at a table in America, a Frenchman and an American woman, to talk about our American way of life. Now, Alexis de Tocqueville probably did the same thing when he was in America in 1831. Don't you think so much more is there? Yes, Miss Gordon. In fact, you know, de Tocqueville heard about the women in this country and his book Democracy in America. And I think if I can remember that he attributed the singular possibility and strengths of the people here to superiority of the women, I think maybe he was right. Oh, that's very good of you. And of course, the women cannot object to that, although it took some time for the men to realize it. Let me tell you. In the series of broadcasts that we're introducing, there is one devoted to the women as de Tocqueville saw them here. And incidentally, I'm afraid I'm failing in my duty as a woman. Oh, I think it's impossible. Don't believe it, but in what way? Well, you're a very good friend, but you know I failed to introduce you. I do want to do that. Monsieur Edouard Morussier is a cultural counselor to the French Embassy here in the United States. He represents the French universities and is a liaison between the universities in France and those here in America. He's a professor of philosophy and author of books in philosophy and innumerable articles. He's been responsible for much of the Franco-American cultural exchange programs. I ought to know because he arranged my trip to France in my youth forum broadcast over there. So you see, he was a logical person to help us introduce to you the de Tocqueville series, which will start on the NBC radio network January 17th. We also have two young people with us, a French student and an American. We'll ask them to introduce themselves. Will you, Joan? My name is Joan Healy, and I'm a freshman at Marymount Manhattan College. And, Joan? My name is Jean-Michel Giraud, and I'm a student at the French Leasee in New York. Well, now you just stay by because I'm going to talk with Monsieur Morussier and then afterwards you're coming into a discussion with us about democracy. Now, Monsieur Morussier, let's talk about de Tocqueville a bit. How do you feel about the idea of a series of broadcasts built around Alexis de Tocqueville's visit to America in 1831? Well, I think it's a wonderful idea for many reasons. First, because de Tocqueville's book is the best written in this country or in Europe on the United States. That's a basic book for the understanding of America and democracy. And I think it's to the right time to do it, because it is a time for a new understanding of our common idea of democracy in the United States and in France. Well, does the average Frenchman know the name de Tocqueville to the students? Are they familiar with the book? As I understand it, de Tocqueville's book Democracy in America was hailed immediately as the classic analysis of the society of the United States. And as a Frenchman living here, do you think America has preserved the ideals that de Tocqueville emphasized? Oh, may I quote my own experience. I remember very well when I heard de Tocqueville's name for the first time. It was in a high school in Paris at the beginning of a course of my teacher on the history of the United States. And he told us, well, there is only one book you have to read about the United States that's Democracy in America. And nobody in that time did better. Well, you read the book in French, of course. In French at that time, yes. But I think that all of the French students heard about de Tocqueville one day or another. And as you know, de Tocqueville is really the best interpreter of the United States and for the political scientist is a sort of model. Would you think that de Tocqueville and his companion Gustave de Beaumont were so impressed because they themselves were aristocrats and were not accustomed to see so much equality amongst the people? Yes, I think it's partly true. But I think there is another basic reason for that. It's because de Tocqueville belonged to a general society, you see, in Europe. And I think that there was a special atmosphere in Europe at that time about the United States. The United States was considered as a sort of utopia, a possible realization of democracy. Yes, because I remember that in one of de Tocqueville's sayings, if I remember it correctly, that he said that he was an aristocrat and never really understood liberty until he came here to the United States. That's right. But I think for any prejudiced Frenchman, the impression would have been the same. Well, now for instance, when de Tocqueville and Beaumont were to call on the governor of New York, that was in that period of the middle 19th century, they were astounded to find the governor living in a boarding house in New York City. But to a French aristocrat, this would be very astounding. Oh, sure. It was a very big surprise. Yes, but they didn't know that later on our governor would live in Albany in a palace just as the... Oh, well, that's a chance of time. Yes, this as time moves along. Well, you know, the dramatizations in the broadcasts are designed to bring to life the America of the 1830s. And the conversations are based on the actual words of de Tocqueville and Beaumont. Would you like to hear a bit of a scene when the two Frenchmen called on governor through New York? Oh, with the play. Well, let's hear that, shall we? You are taking notes, Mr. Tocqueville. I'm glad to see you do it. To take note of this, the American people dispersed over an immense territory, abounding in all the means of commercial greatness, who early found an opportunity of adapting their government to their circumstances. They followed the manifest order of nature when they adopted a constitution which was free, a constitution which was Republican and a constitution which was based on a commercial federation. That, Mr. Governor, was that desirable? No, sir. I will not comment on its desirability, except to say this. As far as we are concerned, it is infinitely desirable because it was wholly inevitable. Will you forgive me if I speak for a moment of your own country and speak to you privately as a man? We should be honored. Very well, sir. Your country too has recently passed through a great revolution, but one which I cannot help feeling has had a very different influence on your destiny. You will forgive the strong language, but I cannot help but remark that the course and indeed the catastrophe of the French Revolution has cast a gloom over Republicanism which perhaps it may never shake off and which renders it in Europe repulsive and discreditable, at least for the present. But here, sir, is the difference between your revolution and ours. The American Republic is the natural fruit of the American soil. The spirit of freedom may be impassioned, it may be fractious, but it is neither furious nor bloody. The strong bonds of union are here and will remain. There is a common language, there are common laws, there are common political attachments, and finally and above all, there is the great reciprocal bond of common interest. Remember this always, gentlemen. We live on trade. We live by trade, we live for trade. Trade is our life. And I tell you frankly, we all regard the carrying on of trade as something to which a man may honorably devote his whole life. And indeed, while we are talking today, a hundred ships are discharging their cargoes and a thousand emigrants from all parts of the globe are landing with big hearts and stout hopes to realize their dreams of a free and happy West. Mr. Morosea, do you think Governor Throop was correct in the statement he made about the difference in the French Revolution and the one in America as he was talking to Major de Tocqueville? Well, first, I think he was not absolutely correct when he said that the catastrophe of a bloody and furious French Revolution was responsible for the decline of a democratic face because we have not to forget that after all, the Napoleonic armies sprayed all over Europe revolutionary ideas and the 19th century was in Europe the era of awakening of nationalities and fights for new liberal constitution. But I think that he is right when he opposes a new revolution in a new country and a revolution in an old country. In an old country, a revolution is a fight for more freedom, for liberty, and it's something very different from the frontier spirit in the 18th century. Oh, yes, and then the difference in the people who came over here seeking religious liberty. In your position as cultural counselor, do you think that we are building up a culture of our own? I think sincerely. I think you have in this country a great literature. A new school of painting. A unique movement in architecture. And two, and that's part of the definition, the expression of a culture, a philosophy of education. It's why I strongly believe in the existence of a unique and original culture of the United States.  What we call in the 17th century, the 18th century, the honest man, later on the cultivated man or the gentleman. But I think that the United States too, from the beginning, produced that sort of human ideal. Permit me not to quote living examples. It would be delicate or embarrassing. But you have an ideal of culture people, like Jefferson, Franklin, Emerson. Oh yes, well they were the pioneers. But don't you feel that we did develop a certain type of culture in our music. Jazz, for instance, has, it's based on folklore and people don't realize that it really is something original and it is a sort of a contribution to the music.  Oh I think so. And I think that the jazz really was a revolution in the interpretation of music. And I remember that very well after the First World War. You got your first impression of jazz at that time. Oh yes.  This gives de Tocqueville's reaction to the emphasis on trade. In 2010, left the governor's boarding house, they heard the street sounds characteristic of the 1830s. Now let us listen to it and pretend that we're there. More noise. There is a band now. Surely the streets of New York must be the noisiest and busiest in the world. And yet, for all their bustle and prosperity, I feel all the time that we are walking about in a city which is nothing but one gigantic suburb. There they go, across the end of the street. Flags, banners, bands. What can all this be? This is a parade of tradesmen of mechanics. Look at them, look at the banners. The butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. It is miraculous. Did you ever see such assurance, such confidence, such calm complacency with which these fellows hold up all the traffic? And listen to the cheers of the people. Yes, the governor told us that these people think that the carrying on of trade is something to which a man may honorably devote his whole life. And look at their clothes.  People, please cheers, boy. Mechanics. It is a right name for them. There is an unbelievable outright equality in America. The whole country has melted into a middle class. A remarkable thing. A country blessed with nature's richest gifts and selected by Providence for the noblest experiment tried by man, which is not only the civilization of a new world, but the practical establishment of principles that till now have only had an ideal existence. A great people which has no army, a country full of activity and vigor, where the action of the government is hardly perceived. A world given up to trade and equality. And proud of both. Of course it has a great deal more dramatization in the rest of the series. And then as you heard Dutocqueville emphasized equality. How do you think of the word equality? Are all men created equal? Oh, that's a very important and philosophical question. It's difficult to answer. But I think that it's not a fact, but an ideal. We have to work for the equality of people. Well, isn't it really that men are created equal in other ways to have the equal opportunity for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which is our Jeffersonian ideal of democracy. You know that we have two young people here in the studio with us. One is a Frenchman and a young American. And we could have the young people talk with each other and with us. Jean-Michel, I'm going to ask you. You know that Dutocqueville was here for 10 months when he wrote this book which became such a famous classic. How long have you been in America? Well, I've been here five years now. Oh, we expect a great big long book out of you. As you listen to us and to the excerpts, do you feel that Dutocqueville was justified in his impassioned feeling about liberty for all men? Well, I suddenly think that America and the United States is quite a good example of democratic realization. John? I would say that he had a reason for being so enthused, but I believe that if he lived now at the present time, he would have even greater reasons because since the time that Dutocqueville was here, we have had much greater advances such as in civil rights, legislation and other such legislation where he could see that his total views of equality would be realized. He seems to think only of the working class, the increase in their powers, but I should think that the slaves being freed and other such changes would make him even more elated than he was at that time.  How do you compare life here and how do you feel about the young people in this country, their liberties and their freedoms? Do you think that they're freer here than they are in France? Well, do you mean one of you from the parents or from the state? Well, let's take a social standpoint. Do you think that the young people here express themselves more freely perhaps than the young people do in France? Well, let's see if he's smiling there across the table. Let's hear what Jean-Michel has to say. Well, I don't know quite exactly, but I think that in here you have more extracurricular activities and younger students write papers about more personal subjects and are trained to do this kind of work and to express themselves maybe more freely than in France. That is, they do express themselves, but I am sure that French students don't bother to express themselves if they wish to. Joan, are you familiar at all with foreign students? Do you find that the foreign students are as free in their opinions and in their expressions as the American young people are? Yes, I do, but I don't believe that there's a partisan as the American students would be towards such things as communism. I know in recent polls taken in France there has been much different opinion on such issues and I think that the American student more realizes the danger up against his country of certain influences in the world than a student in another country. They don't seem to think more in terms of economic alleviation at the present time rather than changes, rather than... Well, Jean-Michel, it seems to me that Joan has thrown a challenge out to you. Very much so. I do not quite agree. Go ahead and tell us. I think that personally, in France you have a wider choice in what you want to think. I mean, here in America you can help it, but if you have more socialistic ideas then there's generally the opinion here. Then you don't quite feel free to express yourself. But in France, since there are almost all kind of parties, political parties, you're always free to join when you want. How many sprinter parties do you have in France? Not too many now.  You've spent a great deal of time with young people. Do you agree with Jean-Michel or with Joanne? Oh, that's a very complicated thing to answer because I know very well university circles in France and in the United States. It's true that maybe the American students express himself more easily than the French ones. But in the counterpart, I think that the French students may be more trained to get a critical mind. And I remember I was a professor a few years ago and we were all used in France to say well, you have to discuss and to take a decision by yourself. So if we speak of liberty as a critical mind, I think the French students can compete very easily with the American one. Joanne, now it's your chance to defend yourself and the Americans too. My point of view was that the American student takes more of an interest say against, as I said before, communism or other elements in our society which might be dangerous to our future existence. I'm interrupting a minute, Joan, but I want to ask you, would you say that the American student feels the same way towards the extreme right?  What about the fascist? Because is the answer perhaps that the answer is the middle road the center, like your center party which has always been so strong in France do you find that the American student is anti-communist only or is the American student also anti-fascist? Well, I believe the average American student is sort of the middle of the road. However the most domineering students at the present time those who have the most interest seem to be those interested in the conservatism and those who are trying to fight communism. Therefore, I should think since they are the more dominant element in the student body, since they are more forceful that it would be their opinion which would be heard. Is it liberty, freedom of expression that bothers you? You feel that the French students can talk about communism and that doesn't mean that they are communist, does it? No, no absolutely not. No, there isn't this communist fear that there is here in France because there is a communist body which is I think getting a little weaker now and I don't know What would you say about that? Do you think that there isn't the fear of communism in France which you say that there is here? Well, it's not exactly the same problem, you see. I would say that the fight against communism is not actually the same way in France and in the United States because of very clear historical reasons. Yes. It's why I think it's very difficult to compare at the time and to say that maybe the French students or the American students have a stronger feeling for freedom. I think the feeling for freedom is as strong in this country as it is in France. Well, we have in relation to these broadcasts there is a book that was edited by George Probst who worked on the programs too called Happy Republic it's a reader in Tocqueville, America and it's quite an extraordinary book. You have a copy of it. Yes, I was very happy to get a copy and I think it's a very excellent book. Well, I think and this is related to the broadcasts and I personally feel it should be read by all the young people everywhere because the amount of research that went into it and I never realized how many French writers there were that had written about America with a tremendous amount of interest but there is one phrase here that I'm looking at now that I'd like to quote from and like to get an idea how Jean Michel and Joann feel. He said the first of the duties that are at this time imposed upon those who direct our affairs is to educate democracy to reawaken if possible its religious beliefs to purify its morals to regulate its actions now do you young people feel at all that democracy is taken for granted a great deal? Yes, Joann? I believe that at the present time we do not take democracy for granted we there are many, as I have mentioned before conservatives who are fighting for different causes and one of them is for equality under the law we have it now in words it is stated that we do have equality under the law however we know that in many areas Negroes are being denied their rights and other minority groups are being denied their rights therefore it is the aim of students now to bring forth to change the situation so that our democracy will be in reality a living democracy will be practiced for every single individual in the United States How do you feel about fashion? I think it is quite a noble purpose Do you feel that democracy is under fire today? I think as the dogville said the main thing about democracy is education to get people educated and able to choose and to act for themselves for a better democracy I am going to come to you Mr. Mugglesy around that question again I fully agree with the dogville because I think that it is true that democracy is a permanent fight a personal and collective fight and we have to never forget that we have to keep democracy we have to be very cautious and to be real fighters not in education and in politics Well thank you very much indeed I think this is a wonderful note on which to close our program it was so good of you Mr. Mugglesy to come and use you on Michelle I want to get your name right and Joan Healy I am very excited and interested in this whole thing and I am sure that everyone else will be thank you very much indeed Thank you very much Mr. Mugglesy You have been listening to preview one Alexis de Tocqueville the first of two discussion programs previewing NBC's dramatic radio series democracy in America based on the classic work of Alexis de Tocqueville this weekly series of 14 half hour dramatizations of American democratic life will have its world premiere on the NBC radio network one week from tonight Wednesday January the 17th at this same time over most of these NBC stations our moderator was Dorothy Gordon who had as her special guest Monsieur Edouard Morosir the cultural counselor to the French Embassy and two students Joan Healy and Jean-Michel Giraud preview two the second of these discussions will be heard next Tuesday night at 8.30 Eastern Standard Time at which time Dorothy Gordon will have as her guest Monsieur Hervé Alphan for the exact listening time in your area please consult your local newspaper this has been an NBC radio network presentation the launching of America's astronaut into orbit later this month on NBC Radio


Live from Atlanta, Georgia, it's theCUBE, covering Citrix Synergy Atlanta 2019. Brought to you by Citrix. Hello and welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Citrix Synergy 2019 from Atlanta, Georgia. I'm Lisa Martin with my co-host Keith Chownes and the CTO advisor. Keith, it's so great to see you. Lisa, good to be on the show with you again. So we're going to geek out the next two days. Oh, and it's so good. We've been geeking out already, just coming from the keynote. This is, it was really good. There was meat, there was announcements, there was news, partnerships. Citrix is a 30-year-old company who's done a lot in the last 12, 18 months to transform from rebranding, product names, et cetera, lots of launches and announcements. And something that really peaked my interest as a marketer this morning is hearing the influence of consumerization. Them talking about leveraging Citrix Workspace and the things that they have done to beef it up, which we'll talk about, to deliver a stellar employee experience to delight the users. And those are words that we hear often in the marketing space, a customer lifetime value. They talked about the employee lifetime value because employee attraction, talent attraction and retention is critical for every business. Really meaty stuff. What was some of your take on some of the announcements? So, you know, it was really interesting because I'm coming off of SAP Sapphire where I'm accustomed to hearing terms like customer experience, employee experience, you know, the kind of ex data versus old data conversation. We heard a lot of that here today. And it's weird coming from an infrastructure company. Citrix, in the past, I like to put into a box is about VDI, application virtualization and networking. And that's pretty much the conversation it stayed at the IT infrastructure leader perspective. Today, we heard a lot that broke out of that and it was, you know, going into the C-suite and delivering not just technology results, but business results. It was a lot about making transformation real. You're right. It was about making it real. And if you think at the end of the day, I think I heard a stat the other day that by 2020, which is literally around the corner, 50% of workers are going to be remote. You and I are great examples of that. We're on the road all the time. We have multiple devices. We need to have connectivity that to all of the apps, SaaS apps, mobile apps, web, that allow us to be productive from wherever we are, done in a way that our employers are confident there's security behind us. But delivering that exceptional employee experience is absolutely business critical. They gave some stats today about the trillions of dollars that are spent or rather work that's lost with employees that have so many apps each day that they're working with that really distract from your actual day-to-day function. Yeah, I think one of the stacks that they gave from an ambitious perspective, they want to give one day back to every employee, 20% of their time back. I think the stack you referred to, some $7 trillion of productivity is lost from just hunting and packing inside of applications. Both of us work remotely. You work from your tablet. I work from a tablet or my phone a lot because it's low power that it lasts the day. But yet, I still need to edit video. I need to sign invoices. I need to create statements of work. I need to be just as creative on the road as I am at home. It helps me to compete against larger competitors, but more importantly offer a different customer experience. And this is what Citrix was talking about today was more than just VDIs about picking up any device, asking basic logical questions like what is the status of the latest big deal and getting that status from Salesforce without again hunting and packing from whatever device you're on. Which is critical, especially to have that seamless experience going from desktop to mobile. I think they also said there was a lot of stats this morning which I really geek out on, but that the average person is using seven to 10 apps a day. And I loved the video that they showed this morning that really brought that to life, looking at a senior marketing manager for some enterprise company who, as she starts her day, there's 10 minutes that goes by which is like, oh, I forgot I got to log into Workday and request my PTO. Oh, one of my employees needs me to approve an expense report. And oh, my boss wants to know about this big deal that's closed. And the time that is spent logging into different applications is really, as you mentioned that number, seven trillion dollars lost. What they're doing with Citrix, with the intelligent, the workspace intelligence experience is bringing all of that to the end user. So it's much more in an activity's focus rather than an app focused experience. And I loved what you said that they're very ambitiously aiming to give each person back one day a week. Yes, please. I will take that in any organization. So I was at a government conference a few weeks ago and they talked very much about this. CFO of GSA presented to a crowd of fellow government workers. And they were talking about eliminating waste. They were talking about automating processes, taking the PDF.  And this has done, the industry has been working on this problem for the past 10 years. It's called RPA, Robotic Process Automation. One of Citrix's partners and I guess now competitors in that space just received $568 million in funding in the single round to enable artificial intelligence to do this. What I thought was interesting is that Citrix didn't use the term bots, I think other than one time on the stage. But these are essentially bots that take redundant processes, automates them to ultimately add value. I'm anxious to dive in and talk about how Citrix is taking stuff like, they mentioned mainframe, AS400 applications. Integrating that in Salesforce without having this huge multi-million dollar project to rewrite these core business applications and processes. So it's a really exciting time in the industry. Citrix has really stepped up and saying, you know what, we won't settle for just having a good business in this application virtualization and network space. We're going to go all in. So one of the things I saw on Twitter this morning is you and I are both tweeting during the keynote which we just came from is you talked about RPA right away on Twitter. And it's something that you heard instinctively with what they were saying. What are your thoughts as to why RPA as a term wasn't discussed? Do you think it's the type of audience that's here? Is it just not a term that resonates as well as AI and machine learning, which are buzzwords at every event we go to? And I think a good portion of that is a mix. We're at a conference that's very IT-centric. Citrix is one of the core IT infrastructure vendors. So when you throw out a term like robotic process automation, you constantly, you instantly think, gain in productivity from me and your level maybe, but from a IT infrastructure practitioner perspective, robotic process automation has a resonance with being equal to eliminating jobs. If you're going to automate the integration between VMware vSphere and Citrix desktop virtualization and that administration piece, which these solutions definitely can do that, what's left for me to do the work on. If you're going to automate the provisioning of DNS and IP addressing and all these mundane tasks that administrators probably spend 50 to 60% of their day doing, you know what, that's threatening. To say that, you know what, we're going to give you the same tools that we give to make the workspace available today from an application perspective and tackle that from the concept of this is just extending that ideal in your job and what you do today to adding true business value. Think it was smart on their part to kind of avoid the bot conversation. Okay, I'm glad that you shared that insight, that makes perfect sense. So PJ Huff was up there, the chief product officer who's going to be on tomorrow, talking about what Citrix is doing to distill apps and make this experience much more personalized. And of course he was joined on stage with the big Microsoft announcement today. I think I've been to so many shows this year, I've lost count, but I think Satya Nadella has either been on stage, he was at Dell Technologies World with Michael Dell and Pat Gelsinger, or in a video like he was today. So the partnership with Microsoft, expanding here a little bit of a teaser at Microsoft Ignite a couple of months ago. Give me your thoughts on what Microsoft, well I should say what Citrix is doing to facilitate their users being much more proficient at using Microsoft Teams, which I believe the gentleman from Microsoft said there's over 300,000 active users already. Fastest growing product Microsoft's history. So when you talk about collaboration, you can't collaborate without these tools, whether it's Teams, Slack, whatever, it's become an integral part of how we communicate, how we interact. I know a lot of friends that I have are moving from Slack to Teams. Just because of the integration with Office 365, they can collaborate around, and I think here on theCUBE, we talk about data as being the key. You have to talk about data. One of the things I was prepared to go kind of head on with Citrix today and tomorrow about was about data. You know, it's great to present applications, but how are you helping to help users collaborate and use and access data? And the combination of RPA with the intelligent experience, it's going to take us some time to get used to this. I keep wanting to say enterprise, intelligent experience. Experience product with Teams, with the Azure announcement, integration with Azure and full support of the Citrix platform inside of Azure will just make the employee experience at least potentially a lot seamless, a lot more seamless. I'm super excited about, you can't tell in my voice, I haven't gotten excited about Citrix in a long time. And this is the first time they had theCUBE at Synergy since 2011. I think it was a great time to reignite that partnership in this coverage. It's going to be an interesting two days. It is, so we talked about digital workspace, the other two areas of Citrix's business that you touched on a little bit, security and analytics. Let's talk about the security piece first as it relates to Microsoft Teams and Azure. SD-WAN is becoming more and more absolutely critical to ensure that because as people, we are the number one threat vector in any organization, not that we're all bad actors, but because we just need to get things done as frictionless or seamless, as you said, as possible and efficiently as possible. What did you hear today with respect to security that might really make some of those IT folks take notice? Well, we want to work from any device. Like, I want to be able to, ideally, if I say, you know what, I want to pick up a new surface tablet when I go to Atlanta. I don't want to pack my iPad. I want to be able to pick that up and work. If I go to a Kiox, I want to be able to, even if it's running Windows XP, I want to be able to do my work. I want to be able to do my work from any device. This is a nightmare for system administrators to say, how do I control security while making the experience frictionless? Those two things don't seem to go together. So Citrix, whether it's with this new announcement where Microsoft with Teams, it's traditional applications around SD-WAN, enabling access from remote locations at a, and Citrix is kind of, this is their bread and butter, offering remote access to applications securely and fast. This is, you know, Citrix is starting to formulate a really great end-to-end story about making applications data, and more importantly, business answers and capabilities available anywhere securely. So it's a great story. It really is. So if you're excited, you already know how excited I am. I think we're going to have a fantastic day today and tomorrow. We've got a whole bunch of the C-suite from Citrix on. We're also going to be talking with some partners and customers. And interestingly, as a marketer, this piqued my interest as well. They have the Innovation Awards. There are three finalists. We will be talking with all three over the next two days. And this is a customer awards program that anybody can vote on. So I haven't seen that before, so I'm excited to understand how Citrix is enabling them to have this great employee experience, which is more and more critical as the shortages and the gaps are becoming more and more prevalent. And also how these customers are reacting to some, just some of the news announced today with Microsoft, the Intelligent Enterprise, and how they see their employees and attracting and retaining top talent as actually really mission critical. So we're going to have fun, Keith. I agree. All right. You're watching Keith Townsend and Lisa Martin live from theCUBE. We are on the show floor at Citrix Synergy 2019 from Atlanta, Georgia. Stick around, Keith and I will be right back with our first guest after a short break.


Hello, welcome to the anti-spyware coalition panel. Thanks everyone for coming. We are going to get started now because we are one panelist short. You'll note from the original book here, Jerry Dixon from DHS isn't here and he's not going to be at the Meet the Feds panel either, so unfortunately. But we do still have a great panel and I'm going to start off. My name is Ari Schwartz, I'm the Deputy Director of the Center for Democracy and Technology and we run the anti-spyware coalition. I'm moderating the panel so I'm just going to briefly go over who the anti-spyware coalition is and then we can talk about some of the issues that we've seen recently. The anti-spyware coalition really came out of a previous failed attempt to create something similar, something called the Coalition of Anti-Spyware Technologies. For those of you that missed the stories on what happened there, I think it will give you a good idea of what the anti-spyware coalition's mission is. The previous group had set up a program to try and certify spyware technologies. What they would do is they would have the anti-spyware companies got together, they would come up with a set of objective criteria for what is spyware and what's not spyware, and then companies could get certified that they were not spyware was the idea. And it ended up getting subverted by some of the spyware companies, particularly the adware companies joining the Coalition of Anti-Spyware Technologies and then trying to change the criteria in their favor. And it really fell apart quickly after that all the anti-spyware companies left. And a few of them came to us at the Center for Democracy and Technology and said, how would you guys run this so that it would be different and that you could avoid that kind of capture? And we came up, we run a lot of working groups in a similar style and we went over what that style is, which is we work with a set of companies, we bring the companies in and we also have public interest groups in the room as well. So we try to bring in really a broad set of public interest groups into the room as well and academic researchers as well and some of the legal aid clinics that work on technology issues. So we have all the major anti-spyware companies involved and many of their distributors and then we also have the National Center for Victims of Crime and the National Network to End Domestic Violence, groups that work on these stocking issues and saw the importance of getting involved in this kind of an issue as well as the Samuelson Clinic at Berkeley and others. So just to give you a sense of how we came about. When we formed, the original goal was to create a set of objective criteria the way that Coast had but in an unbiased way and really in starting that process we realized quickly that we were having discussions using similar terms that meant different things. So we felt that that meant that we needed to have a set of definitions to put out there. So really we put out the set of definitions, we had a public comment process on this, we got over 400 comments including the government of Luxembourg gave us a full, very detailed set of comments as well as many of the companies involved and some of the spyware companies gave us comments too. We brought those back, tried to figure out which ones we thought were legitimate and we did that process and that document is continually updated and it's continually being updated, we've already had one update of it and we're probably going to do another soon. Through that process of putting together definitions we also helped to help provide ways for people to educate others and to stop. And one of the main goals of the group was to help cut down on the ability of spyware companies to sue anti-spyware companies based on the fact that there was no criteria out there. And that information is up on our website, the anti-spyware-coalition.org website. So here's a list of all the members, you probably cannot read it from there but just to give you a sense, pretty much all of the major anti-spyware companies and their distributors, as I read some of these other smaller groups as well, Bit9 is a member and Mario is sitting next to me and so there's a couple other members in the audience here that I see. So if you want to have questions about membership or who's a member you can come up to me afterwards or to the Q&A and we can go over it. Since doing that definitions document we've also done a vendor dispute process. So if you have some software that gets flagged as spyware, what steps do you go through with an anti-spyware company? What are the industry standard best practices on what steps you should go through? The risk model document which is that objective criteria document which rates both threats and the positive criteria. Tips for consumers, as I was saying before, educational documents. Best practices which is really one of the hardest documents, right, which is sort of an aspirational set of criteria to try and get at what companies that are in this spyware definition should be doing and what direction should they be heading without being so concrete the way that the risk model is. And then the conflict resolution document which is for anti-spyware companies that run into conflicts between each other. How do they go about trying to resolve those? We've had some public workshops. We just had one in Harvard last month and we will continue to have, we'll probably have one next year as well, probably maybe in Washington again. The next steps that we're really taking are working on information sharing. We've been in a dialogue with the anti-fishing working group and some other working groups that are trying to do similar sharing. We're trying to work together on standards and means to do that. And lastly, a testing criteria, which is probably the most active area right now. The way that spyware tests have been done in the past, anti-spyware tests have been done in the past that you see both for certification purposes and in publications, they all have very different methodologies. And what we're trying to do is not to standardize the methodology, but instead to have a way of describing those methodologies so that people can do a real comparison. So if you want an anti-spyware software, you know, you can see the test, know what they're testing for, compare that to another test where one anti-spyware software might be ranked fifth in one of them and first in the other one, you can see from the methodologies why that might be and what might be important for you. And that's the goal. And so with that, I'm going to pass it on to the panelists and talk about these issues. I don't know if there are bios in this packet, but the first, here's my contact information as well. The first panelist is Eileen Harrington, who's the deputy director of the Federal Trade Commission, has been there for 23 years and is one of the best people in Washington, law enforcement people in Washington to work with. And she's going to talk a little bit about what the FTC has done in this spyware space and what they plan to do. Sorry, I think you're one of the best people too. I'm a lawyer. I'm with the Federal Trade Commission and our agency has a very broad statutory mandate to protect consumers in the marketplace by enforcing the FTC acts prohibitions against deceptive and unfair practices. We enforce over 30 other specific consumer protection laws as well, but in terms of spyware and law enforcement targeting spyware, we've used our statutory authority to challenge practices that are deceptive and unfair. And those terms have both, I'm sure, common sense meaning to you and a very well-developed meaning in the law. The FTC not only enforces laws, but we also have regulatory authority. For example, we issued the rules created the National Do Not Call Registry and enforce federal telemarketing rules. How many of you are on the National Do Not Call Registry? Excellent. That's probably the most well-known thing that we've ever done. We are also responsible for enforcing antitrust laws along with the Department of Justice. So you may have read, for example, that the FTC is reviewing the double-click, the Google double-click merger. That's our antitrust side that's doing that. We keep the marketplace safe for consumers by acting deceptive and unfair practices and by making sure that consumers have robust choices in the marketplace. We do that by enforcing antitrust laws. We're a small agency. We're a civil enforcement agency. That means we don't put people in jail. We can't get criminal fines. We go to court. We get orders to stop behavior and orders that require companies to give up their ill-gotten profits or give consumers their money back if consumers have been defrauded. In spyware, our law enforcement work has been based on three important principles. First, the computer belongs to the consumer and not to the software distributor. Second, buried disclosures of material information don't work in the online world any more than they worked in the offline world to satisfy the legal requirement that material information be disclosed to consumers prior to either transactions obligating them or other things happening, in this case, their computer being taken over. So you can't bury disclosures in a EULA or in some other inconspicuous way concerning software that's been downloaded onto the computer. And third, if a distributor puts a program on a consumer's computer, the consumer has to be able to remove that program easily or disable it. Now, the FTC, in addition to doing law enforcement work targeting some spyware distributors, has been working to raise consumer awareness. We do a lot of work in the consumer education area. In fact, we think that the best way to protect consumers is to make sure that they're well informed in the first instance. We have a very good website on Guard Online. It's at onguardonline.gov. It has an array of information for consumers about how to stay safe in the online environment. And wonderful little games and quizzes and informative pieces. I urge you to go there. There's a lot of information there about spyware and how consumers can protect themselves in their computers from unauthorized downloads in the first place or infections. We've also been working to raise industry awareness and particularly in the advertising industry. We have contacted directly scores and hundreds now of advertisers whose content has been distributed through software downloads, warning them about the need to pay attention to how their ads are distributed and to also their possible liability to an FTC lawsuit. If their advertisements are distributed in a way that causes injury or is likely to cause injury to consumers and they know or should know that that's the case. So we have been working hard with the advertising industry to get them to pay attention and cut off the flow of money to illegitimate software distributors. We also support technological solutions in the first instance. These are technology problems and probably the most useful steps that can be taken will be in the technology arena. On the enforcement side, as I mentioned, we've brought cases. We've brought 11 of them against software distributors of spyware and malware. The most recent matters, Zango and Quichben, I think, is going to talk about and direct revenue, address each of them, the three principles that I mentioned previously as being at the core of our spyware enforcement work. The orders require that the respondents, that the defendants in these cases, give clear and prominent disclosures and obtain consumers express consent before they download software onto the consumers' computers. And the orders also require that the respondents identify their ads and establish, implement, and maintain user-friendly mechanisms that consumers can use to complain about ads, stop pop-ups, and uninstall their adware. Now, we think that most of the worst of spyware, and this is increasingly the case, is criminal in nature. And as I mentioned, we're a civil enforcement agency, not a criminal enforcement agency. The differences between those two are these. First of all, the remedies that criminal enforcement agencies are able to obtain are different than the remedies that civil enforcement agencies can obtain. We can get orders to stop and orders to return money or disgorge money. Criminal enforcers can put people in jail. They can put people on probation. They can impose criminal fines. The other difference is that the burden of proof that has to be met is different. In a civil case, we have to show by a preponderance of the evidence that a deceptive or unfair practice has occurred. In a criminal case, the prosecutors have to show that whatever statute it is that they're enforcing was violated beyond a reasonable doubt. So it's a slightly higher evidentiary standard. But we think that much of what we're seeing now in the spyware area is criminal in nature. And so we work very, very closely with our colleagues at the Department of Justice, both in the computer crime section in Washington and at United States Attorney's offices around the country. For example, in one of our recent cases that we filed civilly, DC versus ERG ventures, we alleged that the defendants secretly downloaded spyware and other malevolent software programs onto millions of consumers' computers without getting their consent. At the very same time that we filed our case in federal court, the United States Attorney's Office in the District of Columbia executed criminal search warrants in connection with their criminal investigation of the same targets. Operative work happens quite frequently between the FTC and the computer crimes people at DOJ. A number of the people who work, the lawyers who work in that section, used to work for me at the FTC. We have kind of a nice back and forth. And so that kind of cooperation is important, and we think it's increasingly important as we see spyware and spam actually kind of coming together to serve as vehicles for malevolent software and code winding up on people's computers in ways that are criminal. We see gangs outside of the United States increasingly responsible or involved in these kinds of attacks on people's computers in the United States. We have some very useful new statutory authority at the FTC, the U.S. Safe Web Act, and we are using that authority to provide information to foreign governments in aid of their investigations into these kinds of criminal acts. And we're also able now under this statute to receive information from our foreign counterparts. Prior to the enactment of this statute, there were some obstacles to the Federal Trade Commission's exchange of this kind of sensitive information with our foreign counterparts. This law was enacted last November and we are very happy to be able to use it. What we see in the near future for spyware increased criminalization, really, of these activities. Hopefully increased responsibility on the part of domestic companies that advertise online so that they are far more careful about paying attention to how their ad content gets distributed, more cooperation between civil and criminal authorities in the United States and also between U.S. authorities and authorities around the world. I think that's it for now. Ari, we'll be happy to take questions. Okay. Next is Ben Edelman, who is probably well known to a lot of people in this room. He is the best known and deservedly so, known spyware researcher. And also now can add Professor at Harvard Business School to that title as well. Thanks, Ari. I want to see if I can use this big screen for something here today, namely to show the kinds of unfair and deceptive installations that have kept Eileen busy filing 11 lawsuits. Here's one that I remember from some two years ago. And despite being two years old, it really was a useful pair of examples to me, both in showing things getting worse rather than better over time and in putting pressure on the notion of consent. So we've all seen these screens. This is the standard ActiveX screen shown by Windows XP, i.e. up through ServicePack 2 and ServicePack 1 and previously. It looked like this. There would be a yes button that got truncated and if you press the yes button, then the software would install. So to Claria Gader Gain's credit, this software actually wouldn't install unless you press the yes button. So we can't say that the software installed without consent in any substantial quantity. And yet, when you look at the disclosures, which I've boxed in those red rectangles, you see that they are not giving consumers the information that consumers would need in order to make an informed decision. To be told that this software will show you gain-branded ads, you might think those ads are going to appear maybe in the aquarium, that is purportedly the reason why you'd install this software. It's a screensaver aquarium. Put an ad for Coca-Cola in the screensaver. Sure, that would be one thing, but no, actually what Gader Claria Gain was doing was quite different, was near full screen pop-ups. You'd go to Gateway and get an ad for Dell, go to Dell and get an ad for Gateway. Well, they sure don't tell you anything like that, do they? And that leads us right into the FTC's recent settlement with Zango, where the FTC sets out this remarkably tight, carefully drafted set of requirements for what Zango has to do before installing. And a block of text is a little bit dense, especially on screen, but just to highlight the key points, Zango needs express consent. They must clearly and prominently disclose the material terms of their software. They must do that prior to and separate from any EULA. You can't put the material terms in paragraph 37 of a 90-page EULA. No, no, you have to show these prominently and clearly and prior to any EULA that you might display. So that's a great settlement. It says exactly what Zango needs to do. But what about the next question? Do they actually do it? Does Eileen get to go and sue them again? Well, maybe she does. And here's the set of screen shots that would at least make you think she might have to. I was at this lovely radio storm site, which has some kind of streaming music, and got the pop-up shown right in the center, media.fastclick.net. So that's a pop-up from FastClick, part of the value-click ad conglomerate, a large, publicly-traded ad network. And it says, do you want to block junk emails? Well, wouldn't we all like to block junk emails? So a reasonable user might click anywhere on that ad, not just on the yes button, anywhere you click. You get taken to this landing page, which tells you a little bit about what the software will purportedly do, like protect your inbox from annoying junk email. But it sure doesn't say anything about any pop-up ads, any tracking of what searches you do at search engines, or what websites you visit, what products you buy, and what have you. It doesn't say they're going to do that, although it turns out they are going to do that. So this prominent disclosure of material terms, well, it hasn't happened yet, maybe in the next screen. We'll see. I press the free download button.  Now I get a ULA, you see right on the top line, Terms of Use and End User License Agreement. It doesn't say anything too interesting or too substantive in its first screen. We believe users should be able to choose to receive free software in exchange for limited reasonable advertising. Okay, but that's not the material terms that are at issue. The material terms would be, we'll show you pop-up advertising. We'll track what websites you visit. They haven't put those terms in here. They haven't done what the settlement requires. What if you press the I accept button? Then you get this screen, which surely is the most interesting of all of them. Notice that there is no cancel button. There's no reject button. There's no refuse button. By the time you're in here, you can't even press an X in the upper right-hand corner because as you'll see, well, there is no X in the upper right-hand corner. There's just a blank space where the X belongs. Meanwhile, what they're describing here is actually quite different from what you would have thought you were signing up for. You signed up to stop spam, and now they're telling you you need to choose between a free ad-supported version or a paid version with no price listed. So if you're a consumer confronting this screen, you're certainly not likely to want to choose the paid version without knowing how much you're going to have to pay. This is a starting matter. But then this free ad-supported version, well, that has problems too, doesn't it? They haven't told you anything about how or when those ads are going to appear, and they certainly haven't told you what is actually the case, that the ads appear in near full-screen pop-ups, that they track most everything you do online. It does. And, you know, the company that makes this would take that position to their deathbed. They'd say, this isn't spyware because you agree to install it. Of course, if you agree to install it without being told what it's going to do, then it certainly seems deceitful, doesn't it? Underhand it at the very best in that if they don't tell you they're going to track what you're doing, they do perform exactly that kind of tracking. In fact, they've sent letters to people saying, because they have come to a settlement agreement with the FTC, therefore they're not spyware. Indeed, they send out letters saying they're FTC certified. I have just such a letter in my inbox. That, of course, is a mistake. They shouldn't go around saying they're FTC certified, but sometimes they do anyway. So that's Zango in terms of their installation practices. Not quite doing what the settlement seems to require. Maybe Eileen's staff will get to sue them again, which I would say is a privilege and an honor rather than a duty, but I don't know if they'll think of it that way. Separately, the settlement also obliges Zango to label ads. And here, too, the requirements are awfully precise, and I think they're appropriate. They're exactly on target. Every ad needs to have a clear and prominent label saying what software showed the ad, identify it, and then provide a hyperlink that gives instructions as to how to remove the software and how to complain if you don't like it. So pretty clear, right on the ad, there needs to be that identification and a hyperlink. If you ever find a Zango ad that doesn't have the identification and or doesn't have the hyperlink, then, you know, they're in trouble. So what about it? Can you find such an ad? Well, yes, of course you can find such ads. For example, they insert this toolbar into Internet Explorer, and lo and behold, it has ads. Each of these buttons is an offer from a bona fide third party. They get paid for taking you through to the third party site, be it career builder or some mortgage service provider or what have you. And there is no labeling. You look on screen for anything telling you what software showed this ad, and you can't find it. You look on screen for the hyperlink about how to uninstall or how to complain. And again, you can't find it. Open and shut, it seems to me. Here, too, they put icons onto your desktop. These are ads for third party software, actually for software online. That's the name of the company. They got in trouble with the Washington State Attorney General for telling users that their computers were infected with spyware when they weren't. These are ads. You know, they're desktop icons promoting third parties for a fee, and yet they don't have the kind of labeling that the settlement requires. So I think these are pretty straightforward in terms of violations, and I'm looking forward to the FTC doing something about it. If not, we'll tar and feather them in the press and that would be okay, too. But elsewhere in the spyware ecosystem, so to speak, that is beyond Zango, there are other interesting practices still ongoing, perhaps not as top-line in terms of the prominence and folks noticing. Here's an ad that got syndicated to a website I was visiting. Syndicated through a top ad network. My notes don't say which. Right here, it says, if your computer has been running slower than usual, it may be infected with adware or spyware to scan, click yes below. Well, there are several things about this that are underhanded. For example, warning spyware notice in the top left corner. They haven't conducted any scan to tell you that you're infected with any spyware. Here, when you have the no button and the X button, those are negative buttons that maybe shouldn't do anything or should take away this ad. In fact, they'll take you through to the ad landing page trying to get you to install their software, which will tell you you're infected, even if you're not, and then charge you to disinfect. This is all fascinating because it comes from a company called Casale Media, a top-ten ad network with offices all over the place and real money in the bank, such that you could sue them and take their money, which might not be a bad idea on these facts. Separately, I continue to test some spyware that has just remarkably tenacious effects, remarkably invasive. Reaching right into Google, for example, and putting an ad where, of course, we all know, no ad belongs. So here's an ad for Singular, a company that earlier this year settled litigation with the New York Attorney General's Office as to their improper spyware-delivered advertising. Well, here, inserted right into the Google site without Google's permission, obviously, is an ad promoting Singular. You see the same kinds of ads promoting HP, Verizon. I've got dozens of these examples. Most every big U.S. banner advertiser gets infected this way. Sometimes you even see a Google AdSense frame inserted into the top of the Google homepage in a particularly ironic twist. Who do you blame for this? Well, you certainly could blame full context. If only you could find them. I, despite some efforts, couldn't figure out where they're located, you could also blame the ad networks that are trafficking in this sort of placement. They're paying full context in order to show the ads, and that certainly is what sets the practice in motion. Finally, the advertisers perhaps could do more to get to the bottom of this. Well, let me, yes. The New York Attorney General's Office filed what was conducting an investigation that ultimately settled, and there were three companies that were at issue, Singular, Priceline, and Ari, do you have the third one on the tip of your tongue? Was it Verizon, or was it another phone company? We'll think of it. In any event, these companies were each spending on the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year with Direct Revenue, a notorious company that would install through exploits, make uninstall remarkably difficult, disguise their product as a printer driver so that it would automatically load every time you turned on your computer, and they were making these purchases directly from Direct Revenue. Even after, you know, if you just typed the company's name into Google, you would readily find out that this company was up to no good. But they were doing it anyway. You'd go to the Sprint site, and the generic attorney general's case stands for the much narrower proposition that if you do business to the tune of a large amount of money with a company whose bad practices have been so detailedly documented, then you can get sued. Whether you could be sued for a relationship and face liability for a relationship that was smaller, that was intermediated through several ad networks that would have been harder to track down, you know, that's still an open question, maybe, but it certainly seems less obvious. Let's make a quick commercial error, which is on the CDT.org website we have a list of SPIWARE enforcement cases, and it lists the cases that the AG has brought, including these, and the AG's have brought in all the FTC cases and the DOJ cases. Well, let me close with an example that's a little bit more complicated, but here we are at DEF CON, so I think everyone will probably enjoy that rather than complain about it. I was on a computer that had Zango software installed. You can see the Zango branding on this ad, this ad at least was properly labeled, and there it is saying that the ad came from Zango. I went to the Netflix website, and I got a pop-up, which you see here in the top right corner, of Netflix. You might say to yourself, gee, that's a strange way for Netflix to advertise, advertise to people who are already at their site. I mean, why bother if the user is already at Netflix? Surely he's about to sign up for Netflix in any event, there's nothing you can do to push him further into Netflix and that's actually the right response. Netflix would not want to buy this advertising. This advertising is a bad deal for Netflix, but a good deal for Zango and some of Zango's partners, they're getting paid on what's called a CPA basis, cost per acquisition. They get paid something like $40 for delivering a new user to Netflix. Now, where can you get a new user who really wants to sign up for Netflix? How about a user who's about to sign up for Netflix at Netflix.com? That's a good place to get a user to sign up for Netflix. The guys who are at Blockbuster might prefer Blockbuster. The guys who are searching for car repair at Google probably don't want to sign up for Netflix, but the people who are about to sign up for Netflix, those are people who are really interested in Netflix. So convince those folks to sign up through this second window, the smaller one rather than the big one, and then you get $40 if you're Zango or Zango's partner. It turns out that because the two browsers share a single set of cookies, then if the user signs up through the larger window, the background window, the partner will still get paid because the tracking pixel will still kick and then the CPA tracking system will think that the partner deserves the commission. Well, in terms of how this happens, we can use a packet sniffer to see the underlying redirects. Straightforward enough, Zango software underlined in red there sees that I'm at Netflix, instructs the Zango software to load an ad from roundads.com. My browser begins to load that ad from roundads and is redirected to Linkshare. That's a U.S.-based New York affiliate network acquired by Rakutan last year for upwards of $400 million, so they're doing pretty well. And then Linkshare redirects me onwards to Netflix. So what happened? Zango saw that I was at Netflix. Zango sends me to roundads. Roundads sends me to Linkshare. Linkshare sends me back to Netflix, and all of a sudden Netflix is out $40 if the user makes a sign-up. This is still Zango's business. They're doing this all over the place. I have automation that catches dozens of examples per week, send them off to my advertiser and ad network clients even to try to get to the bottom of this mess. Nothing in the FTC settlement prohibits Zango from cheating advertisers. That's just not what the FTC was going after, and Zango really seems to be retrenching in this kind of business model, even as they face pressure on other fronts. Arya? Thanks, Ben. Well, that gives a lot for us to talk about in the Q&A portion of coming. But next we have Mario Luxon from Bit9. And Mario's going to talk about the increasingly important issue of code signing and how it relates to this issue. Thank you, Arya. We'll try to put a finger on roughly what is the size of the problem or how serious it is. So my name is Mario Luxon. I'm a director of knowledge-based services at Bit9. And for you who don't know, Bit9 is a leading application control and device control vendor. We also have a Bit9 knowledge base, which is the world's largest database of information, files and applications. And with that, I would like to talk about malicious use of certificates.  And then we're going to look into the issues of, you know, how certificates get revoked and what is the current status of certificates being used for malicious signing. So let's say you obtain a certificate from a certificate authority. It's quite simple to sign your code. You obtain an authentic code tool set from Microsoft to sign your CABs, EXCs and OCXs that will trigger that window in browsers validating a certificate and telling users hopefully what is the valid publisher of the certificate and what is the product that this vendor is trying to sell you. In the same regard, you could be assigning Netscape, Java, Apple or VBA components. Same mechanism works. So what a certificate would do for potential ISVs is that it would attest to the code's integrity and it would help a user determine the code's provenance, meaning it will see the company's name and it will know who has published the particular code. And then on the other hand, the software that's doing the validation will most likely check the certificate revocation list and if the certificate is not disabled, you'll be able to proceed or if the certificate is on a revoked list like these two micro certificates that had an issue several years back, you would get warned appropriately. Typically, certificates are used only to sign the installers. People don't sign every single file in their install. There's a significant binary overhead and yes, it would be very nice if every file had some kind of signature so we could easily check through the entire machine and figure out what came from which source. Problems, I'm really sorry about the small nature of the images, real problems with certificates are well known. I mean, Ben Edelman did a great piece two years ago that questioned the viability of a certificate issued to an entity called Click Yes to Continue. Definitely not a valid company name, definitely nothing you could ever Google and then come up with anything meaningful. But nevertheless, a certificate issued to this entity that then used that certificate to sign equally meaningless piece of code that was clearly geared towards urging the user to install unwanted pieces of software. Well, today the names of these publishers have changed. You'll see that the package names pretty much have more or less the same text as Ben showed yesterday. I mean, yesterday earlier, or as they're shown here. When it comes to certificate authorities that issue certificates to software companies, market is mainly dominated by two companies. We all know that very simultaneously. There are some newcomers like Commodore and in reality any CA that's mentioned in the trust of the root certification authority section in your explorer could be issuing certificates for code signing. There are minor differentiators between these vendors, mainly in price and also how long they have been listed in the trust of the root certification authorities section which will just sort of mean what's your backward compatibility if you were to use their certificate. The big problem with code signing certificates for authorities is that it's not really a revenue leader in any shape or form. I mean, even though they're expensive, roughly ranging around $600 a year for code signing certificate, there's very few companies, you know, number wise who use them and so on. They feature minorly in the overall revenue scheme and definitely do not urge these companies to heavily invest into verifying and tracking certificates after issues. Also, certificate authorities are responsible to provide for a revocation list. They just maintain the revocation list, but they leave the responsibility for the usage of the revocation lists back to the software developers. Software developers really have to go through every single certificate authority, get their revocation lists, bundle it together and validate each time the new certificate is being seen. Well, it becomes quite interesting to figure out how do I get a certificate from either of these two organizations. Very simply, you go to the website. I'm not sure if you see very much details. There's not really nothing spectacular here. It's just a general e-commerce form. Enter your technical company or business contact information in it and finally please give us your charging information. So we could proceed to complete this transaction by charging you money and then potentially calling you in a couple of days to validate whether the telephone number that you issued is correct and whether it belongs to the entity that you have specified in the certificate. That's all. Tauti sort of does things a bit different. It tells you that you need to certify your business status, your business type after you decide on what type of certificate you're trying to get and fill out your personal information, you will be asked to classify their business type. And so one of the interesting options here is that you could select to be doing business as or trading as, meaning to declare yourself to be of a status that has no relevant paper trail that you need to submit back to Tauti. And that's it. So you get your user agreement which are quite interesting in terms of the liability and the powers that it gives to the certificate authorities. So after you see that, ignore that, you're on your own.  Based on Ben's piece of paper years ago, VeriSign actually put in a complaint page for report code signing and misuse, this is herein. And that's nothing that Tauti or Commodore have yet implemented. So in their world certificates are usually revoked by vendors asking themselves to have their own certificate revoked in case there was an infringement of any sort. But it's very difficult for the public to submit a request for whatever user agreement violation there was that the company would then take an action and do something about it. In case certificates made it to a certificate revocation list it would take about 24 hours before that would actually get published and start getting picked up by browsers. And then as a final comment it turns out that only about 10 last three certificates are being revoked monthly. So that's just a very small number in terms of when compared to the spider universe out there. So user agreements also have not changed very much in the last three years. I'm just quoting here from Ben's blog very interesting piece for anyone to check out where all three vendors more or less stated distribute malicious or harmful content of any kind by the software that you certified is a violation of the agreement and then also it gives the power to the certificate authority to go and do something about it. So having seen that we looked in our Bit9 knowledge base to try to figure out top ten offenders and so let me just do some background on how we came up with this list it's really based on one million unique malicious samples that we have acquired we don't really track malware we really after getting the information on the known good software but in the process spider gets through and we are using multiple anti-malware scanners to detect and appropriately label the software. So we have found this found product signed by these entities here that had to be detected by more than three different scanners to make it a list and once the report was done we found 177 total publishers of this type with as you can see on this list Cougar Technologies leading with about 1,700 apps signed and many of these companies are not really all that prominent except for obviously Zango and when you which are not towards the bottom meaning they're still very much active and they're using all the artifacts of available there to make themselves look benign, appropriate friendly to the end user to really use anything that we have device to assure the general consumer of the good nature of the software being distributed. Okay so just quickly go to this three samples Cougar Technologies is a company based out of Netherlands and the signs pretty much in a two different piece of software one is called Sexy Sexy and the one is called almost like in previous example you know click on yes and Sexy Sexy has been in last two years published in 1,700 variants which you know if you divide it you know in service you know in the daily build sense it will be probably about three years worth of daily builds so this is extremely prolific company for which you will never find the website or any relevant Google results so they usually come up you know by various dialers you know labels and here have some file details on actually the package that was signed a second example plug-in movie limited is a well documented certificate which has been there's a nice write up on the Sunbelt software research center it's a high risk porn dialer coming out of a company that registered itself in London again package name is really really you know non-informative of what you're trying to install and it's well known if using the number of anti-malware scanners. FastTrack is a company out of Poland does porn dialers and again you know a couple of packages that do Net Vision and FastTrack have the same problems we've seen all along so the questions to consider in the future is you know whether this system is inherently broken whether it could fix itself and to really try to figure out you know is any of the technology updates that are coming going to address issues or what I would suggest you know if you're ready to look into alternative solutions and potentially start working towards a global software registry. Great, thanks Mario. So I want to take one question and then you can so people can get a taste of what the Q&A will be like since I think getting in more detail would probably be really interesting so why don't we take one question here and then people can decide whether they want to move with us to the Q&A or not anyone have a question follow up with anyone here Yes Is there anything that the bad guys cannot take advantage of to make themselves look like good guys Mario and Ben you want to answer that first and then I think it looks ready to answer I think it's thinking I mean this is I'll start with an answer since no one is jumping at it I mean it's a very good question I mean we have the same problem in pretty much every cyber fraud area and spam in phishing right the more that you go about to try and build protections the more that the fraudsters take advantage of those of what that looks like we've seen that even in some of the more complex areas in phishing where they've tried to come up with new schemes and I've heard some researchers say in the phishing case well maybe we shouldn't do as much user education we'd be better off with the phishers being dumb and then we can block for users rather than trying to have them subvert that system I don't know I don't know how other people feel about that but I think that eventually by making it harder and making the cost of development more expensive then they have to be able to recoup that and that becomes harder so that's really the only outgoing defense that I can see is just in terms of an all out war making it so expensive that it's too expensive for the bad guys right but they make millions of dollars but if you look at the ad so you look at the adware companies they have to deal with the FTC they have to deal with well I mean and internationally if they have partners that we've seen from those AG cases that were mentioned that Ben raised even if you advertise you're a U.S. company that advertises so U.S. company that advertises a Canadian company that's a network the way that the ad systems work and that's the one thing about spyware is the adware side of it at least has been very advertising based a lot of the advertising points are based in North America the key advertising points for people so if you can get at that piece of it and make it more expensive in that front then you can start to at least make it harder for people to do business in that space the bad guys I'm talking about side by side I think anti spyware companies generally have been pretty hard to attack here when when Zango threatens to sue Symantec Symantec doesn't mind that much here's the address for service of process we look forward to seeing you in court new.net pretty big spyware type company installing without consent did sue Lavasoft a German anti spyware company in federal court and lost they lost twice actually first the judge dismissed half their case and then he dismissed the other half and was quite fed up with new.net by the end of it it's not been an easy attack for spyware companies against security companies and so the first line of defense for most users is their anti spyware software which will detect most stuff most of the time in terms of peer review I was on the board of advisors of a company called site advisor which started off by having automated systems that would browse the web download every exe they could find scan for spyware see if there was anything bad about that exe but then supplement it by asking users to submit reviews you can do it right now if you think of a bad site that you think site advisor might be rating green just go to site advisor dot com look up the site if it comes out green register create an account and say why it's bad site probably will switch over to yellow or red according to the gravity of what you propose so you know it works there are some millions of users using it on the other hand most users have never heard of it and so it's only the beginning to really getting to the bottom of the problem well we have to get going but let's move that discussion to the q&a session q&a room I hope that the people that have questions will follow us up there thank you


A message to Christian singles.  It's Isaac and if you're new to this channel, this channel is all about helping you Walk with Jesus daily. That's why it's called daily disciple. I'm dealing with kind of a cold I had a flu a little bit during the Christmas time and now we're way past that But I'm still dealing with cold symptoms and flu.  This is a little bit of a rant I have but It's for your encouragement. It's not to get you all angry or riled up, but I've been but I've been seeing okay I've been on this new app. It's not new, but it's new for me tick tock and on it, you know There's mostly kids probably I would say age 12 to 18. I'm 20. I'm on there. I post pretty often So a little bit older in the age range, but on there, you know post a lot of funny, you know short videos That kind of thing, but I've noticed a lot of them are about, you know being single and oh man I'm a hopeless single. Oh man. Nobody likes me. Oh man. I'm single. I'm such a loser like it's it's really interesting to see these videos and I think it's a real reflection of a lot of People maybe you're you're in that age range to maybe 12 to 18 or maybe even older than that And you're just like, oh man, I'm single especially when you get older. I'm 20 I haven't dealt with this tons just because I'm still like I would say it 20s still pretty young When you get to that age range of maybe 22 or 23, maybe some of you guys can speak to this in the comments Dude, it's so common to just be ashamed and feel insecure about being single And I think we in the Christian community we've done a lot of harm in this area We've heard a lot of people because of how high we value marriage. We're like, oh marriage is the pinnacle Oh man, two souls coming together as one. Oh my goodness. This is an amazing thing And yet here we're leaving all these people here that are in the pews and oh, yeah, they're single Oh, they're 22 23 even 20 and they're like, yeah, I'm not You know, I'm not in a relationship for me I've never even been in a relationship so I can relate to this I don't claim to know a lot about Relationships because I've never been one but I do know that the single experience being single There can be a lot of pressure from outside people like people within the church community I don't know. I know I'm kind of rambling because I'm half sick But I I see this as such a sad thing when we feel Shame in this area of all man Yeah, I haven't found the person that I'm gonna, you know, spend the rest of my life with like we're in this kind of holding zone Like nothing really happens when you're single and it's just kind of sad and you're just kind of like, yeah Maybe one day something good will happen. I'll be in a relationship like to me. That's such a sad Disoriented perspective of what life is like and what God has created the season of life to be like and be for Because when we are stuck in this area in this state of shame like we're ashamed of of where we're at or when we're We'll shame for a being single whatever it is in my opinion. We're Stifling our growth and we're stifling and putting a hold to maybe what God would have for us during this season When we're caught up in shame and self pity and like, oh man, I wish that we're in a relationship. It's so sad Like what are we missing out on? I think we're missing out on a whole lot of opportunities to just be like, hey, you know what this is Where I am. I don't need to make excuses. This is another thing too.  Yeah, I don't know my schedule is just really busy I'm not really I can't even fit a relationship in yeah, I'm just focusing on school right now a school is my main priority Yeah, man, I'm just kind of working on me right now. You know that self-growth self-development kind of okay So if any of those excuses were true for you, that's fine I'm glad but I know a lot of people they say those things to get people out their backs and that kind of thing But but believe me the second that somebody kind of comes into your life You're like, oh my goodness this person is you know, I like this person and this seems right and all this kind of thing You're like well, I'm busy. Well, whatever. I don't care that I'm busy. I'll fit this in, you know So some of these excuses maybe they can serve a purpose and maybe You know what people that are putting pressure on you from the outside to get them kind of back off a little bit But I want to encourage you to kind of be bold in the fact that you know, not that I'm I don't need no, you know, some of these girls are like Like it's not necessarily what I'm saying, but I'm saying that it's okay that you're single a guy girl, whatever It's okay that you're single and you don't need to be ashamed of that God doesn't want you to be ashamed of that because when we are ashamed we stop being useful and we stop being We stop growing and we start we stop moving. Okay. I want to address something here, too I've seen a number of Christian singles They find it a little too easily to find Signs from God that it's his will for you to date somebody or be in a relationship with somebody. Oh my goodness There's a new girl in Bible study. It's a sign. Yo, dude. She goes to the same grocery store as I do. It's a sign Hey, man, she uses the same Bible translation as I do. It's a sign Hey, I heard that his favorite worship song get this It's way maker his favorite sign is way maker. That's my favorite song, too It's a sign. Okay, so I don't pretend to know when the sign like when there's a Appropriate sign and like oh my goodness. Well, this person is this and this and this and this it's a sign Like I don't even know I don't know how that works. I I've never been in a relationship I'm not a relationship expert. All I know is that we should probably calm down in terms of the things that we attribute as Signs. Oh my goodness. This person is in my university class. It's a sign like Let's chill. Okay, so maybe you're like I just yeah, I'm not ashamed of being single You know, maybe I make excuses every once in a while for why it is But at the end of the day, you know what I'm okay with being single and I'm not gonna be ashamed of it But I still want to kind of be in a relationship eventually. I want to get married and you maybe you're in that in that zone So I want to speak to that a little bit. I like I said I don't claim to be an expert on any of this or even know the first thing about relationships But I do think and maybe we're in this journey together I do think an important thing is to look for community So look for good solid Christian community where you can meet people where they have, you know You don't want identical beliefs because you want people you want growth and you want all that kind of thing But but like similar blades beliefs so like, you know church group or whatever people that have the same kind of Foundation and start establishing and trying to build that community around you and and and get into a community like that Because I hate to break it to you and it was it was it was a very harsh reminder for me, too But you actually need to talk to the person that you want to be in a relationship with like if you see somebody you're like Like this person seems awesome. This is cool. Okay, great. You actually need to talk to that person for me I haven't got to that level yet. Maybe one day. I'll keep you updated But but I think it's just funny so find that community Don't be ashamed of being single but look for that community 2020 for me is a year of community You know, there's some changes that have been happening in my life And it's just kind of like kind of almost a fresh start in some ways, but I'm looking for that community So maybe I'll shoot a couple videos on that on my, you know Look looking for a church at this point actually and looking for that community So maybe I'll shoot some vlog type videos Let me know in the comments down below if you'd like to see that and follow me on my journey of community and all that But all that to say don't be ashamed for being single It's okay Don't dwell in self pity because God wants to use you where you're at. His timing is perfect And that's all I have to say today So I hope you enjoyed this video if you did subscribe. Thank you to all my patrons on patreon Thank you for supporting this ministry that I can even do this and it's so amazing that you are supporting me If you want to support this ministry and mean the world to me head on over to patreon.com slash daily underscore disciple and you can sign up to become a gospel partner on patreon Thanks so much for watching guys leave a comment down below with your thoughts on this and I'll see you next time See ya just like every other Christian youtuber. We need our monthly relationship video relationship video Okay, here we go Christian youtuber relationship video quota one per month Here is my video submission of relationship video to meet the quota Could you imagine if all my videos were about relationship?  He's never been in a relationship, but this dude knows this dude knows


Welcome to the Fifth Battalion Fourth Air Defense Artillery Regiment Change of Responsibility. Today's ceremony marks the passing of responsibility from Command Sergeant Major George A. Palmer to Command Sergeant Major Charles L. Robinson III. The host for today's ceremony is the Fifth Battalion Fourth Air Defense Artillery Regiment Commander, Lieutenant Colonel Abraham Osborn. The Fifth Battalion Fourth Air Defense Artillery Regiment celebrates a storied lineage of over 200 years. It was originally activated in May of 1815 at Fort Independence, Massachusetts, as Brevet Lieutenant Colonel Samuel D. Harris' Company in the Regiment of Light Artillery. The unit would experience several redesignations, deactivations, and activations until one October 2005, and it was re-designated as the Fifth Battalion Fourth Air Defense Artillery Regiment. On 16 October 2018, the battalion was activated on Shifting Cousin, Ansbach. As the only short-range air defense battalion in Europe and the only pure short-range air defense battalion in the Army, the battalion completes a unique mission set by serving in many joint exercises with NATO allies setting the foundation for the return of Shorad to the Army. Since its reactivation, the Fifth Battalion Fourth Air Defense Artillery Regiment has participated in numerous joint multinational readiness center rotations, NATO and maneuver force exercises, cementing the reintroduction and reintegration of Shorad to the maneuver force. The battalion has demonstrated its lethality across six European nations and conducted joint training with seven NATO partners. The battalion has continued to build upon its long legacy with the recent transition to the only striker-based air defense platform in the armed forces. The battalion stands ready to live up to its motto of we attack, anywhere at any time. At this time, Lieutenant Colonel Osborn will join Command Sergeant Major Palmer, Command Sergeant Major Robinson, and First Sergeant O'Connor for the passing of the colors. The passing of the battalion colors is a time-honored tradition signifying the responsibility associated with the command in this ceremony. First Sergeant O'Connor hands the colors to the outgoing Command Sergeant Major. The Command Sergeant Major then passes the colors to the battalion commander, signifying the return of the responsibility of which he was entrusted. The battalion commander then passes the colors to the incoming Command Sergeant Major, thus demonstrating his confidence in the Command Sergeant Major's ability to handle the responsibility and maintain the unit which is disciplined and trained in the basics of soldiering. The incoming Command Sergeant Major returns the colors to First Sergeant O'Connor, signifying the completion of the transfer of responsibility. Effective 23 June 2021, Command Sergeant Major Charles L. Robinson III assumes responsibility as Command Sergeant Major of the 5th Battalion 4th Air Defense Artillery Regiment.


Welcome to Toffy TV, it is the Everton News Daily. Everton have landed in Australia ahead of the two games while on tour in the country. The Blues begin with a game against Celtic, which is played on Sunday morning. The early hours of Sunday morning, it's a 3.45 am kickoff here in the UK, and then they play a game against Western Sydney Wanderers next Wednesday, which kicks off at 8.45 on Wednesday morning at UK time. The manager has taken some of the younger players with them, so it's an opportunity for him to look at them. Obviously Everton are without some of the players who were on international duty for the World Cup, and then obviously Alex Iwobi, James Coleman, Salomon Rondon, who were all on international duty. Other players like Ben Goffrey haven't gone over there. But it's an opportunity for Australian-based Evertonians to see the team playing in the flesh. And there should be two good games, two competitive games, before Everton will have a break as they build up back to the boxing day game against Wolverhampton Wanderers. Everton have needed this break, I think, to try to reset almost after a poor run of form, and the three of the feet in a week obviously was quite depressing from an Everton point of view. And off the back of that, former Everton midfield player Tim Cale has backed manager Frank LLampard to improve the team's fortunes. Cale said that LLampard is a good young manager who loves Everton and understands what they need, but he did admit that it was a results-based business and those results simply needed to improve. Cale was of course part of the selection committee that chose Frank LLampard as Everton's manager back in January. So that is on our socials, if you want to hear exactly what Tim Cale had to say in his defence of Everton boss Frank LLampard. Everton's new stadium has been shortlisted for Euro 2028. It's one of 14 stadiums in the country to be put on the shortlist should England, or the UK and Ireland get Euro 2028. That's going to be whittledown to 10 stadiums within the next year, and then those final 10 will be put to UEFA as part of the bid. Everton, I think, have got an excellent chance of getting this. Obviously Liverpool haven't been included in it. There's a couple of places that have got two stadiums. London's actually got three that they've puffed forward. So I think Everton's got an excellent opportunity to be included in this. It'll be the newest of all the stadium, of course, and especially because Liverpool haven't been involved in it either. It's just one stadium from it. So I think Everton's got an excellent chance of actually being part of the final 10. So there you go. Enough times past. There's been loads of rumours. We've heard all the stories. Oh, come on, tell me. Why did you leave Everton? Everton today has been linked with a move, a January move. For Chelsea, he's been linked with Everton a few times because obviously Frank Lampard knows him well. He is out of contract in 2024 with Chelsea. Doesn't appear to be a new contract on offer at the moment and sources in London saying that he is attracting the interest of Lampard who wants another attack on midfield player, apparently, according to that. Finally, on loan forward, Lewis Dobbin scored a absolute stunning goal for Derby County in the FA Cup last night in their 5-0 victory over Torgie United at Pryde Park. It was a tremendous volley corner knocked out and Dobbin just smashed it back into the roof. It is on our socials if you've somehow not seen it yet. It is a tremendous strike and it will do Dobbin the well, the good. He's been playing regularly for Derby and obviously getting the goal like that will really pick his confidence up. He did, of course, miss a penalty in the shootout defeat at Amfield last week in the Carabauwg Cup. So, it's a great way for him to bounce back from that score and a hell of a goal like that last night. So, well done Lewis. That is it for the news daily. Make sure you give the video a thumbs up. Subscribe if you've not and if you want more videos including daily live exclusive videos become a Toffee TV Premier member. The link is in the description and the QR codes on screen. Now, see you later.